The Accidental Tech Podcast

230: Auto, Dynamic, Fresh, Dank

 

  little bit there is worth adding no well [TS]

  it wasn't bolded I got scolded earlier I [TS]

  should hi sorry alright we'll just we'll [TS]

  just have to edit all this out let me [TS]

  take a note John gets angry at Casey you [TS]

  gotta be you gotta be serious with these [TS]

  bowls John I already did trim this down [TS]

  you realize it's not like I just copied [TS]

  and pasted the thing you know this is [TS]

  the trim version the bowls just to let [TS]

  you know which parts are important [TS]

  alright so let's get started as we have [TS]

  to with follow up we have another [TS]

  instance of a fairly long email that I'd [TS]

  like to read most actually a couple [TS]

  instances of this that I'd like to read [TS]

  pretty much in their entirety because I [TS]

  think they're really really fascinating [TS]

  I would never generally do this but now [TS]

  I'm making the exception the rule [TS]

  because he's a really good email you do [TS]

  like every two weeks and ever and I [TS]

  always and I have to edit it in some [TS]

  ways it's like nothing is more boring [TS]

  and harder to follow then listen to [TS]

  somebody read like a six paragraph email [TS]

  in a podcast alright alright I'll try to [TS]

  I'll try to make this as quick as I can [TS]

  since John has done us the service of [TS]

  bolding certain sections in the show [TS]

  notes so we got some feedback from an [TS]

  anonymous Microsoft employee on the [TS]

  facial recognition in Windows and they [TS]

  said all the surface devices since the [TS]

  surface pro 4 which is the last two [TS]

  generations apparently have supported [TS]

  Windows hello this is different than [TS]

  High Sierra this is Windows hello which [TS]

  uses an infrared LED infrared depth [TS]

  camera and RGB webcam to authenticate [TS]

  via your face this technology's derived [TS]

  from the Kinect and in has in general [TS]

  been super well received it's fast very [TS]

  reliable and works in the dark and this [TS]

  includes a link to a video which we put [TS]

  in the show notes it's also tricky to [TS]

  fool arguably more secure than a [TS]

  fingerprint and you can it can even tell [TS]

  twins apart and we'll put a different [TS]

  link in the show notes for that when [TS]

  Microsoft tried to scale this down to [TS]

  mobile devices in the Lumia 650 and 650 [TS]

  XL the same technology didn't work for a [TS]

  number of reasons including power cost [TS]

  and constraints size constraints it is [TS]

  the Lumia devices shipped in 2015 and [TS]

  while the surface solution didn't scale [TS]

  down effectively then I have no [TS]

  difficulty believing Apple could scale [TS]

  down to a full face solution like [TS]

  Windows hello in 2017 that said most [TS]

  good solutions I've seen require at [TS]

  least two cameras I are in our GP RGB to [TS]

  get depth [TS]

  why it's a fleshie 3d object that's such [TS]

  a funny word fleshie but anyway and [TS]

  capture enough identifier x' as well as [TS]

  an ir LED to function and mix lighting [TS]

  conditions heavy backlighting and bright [TS]

  sunlight are especially challenging it's [TS]

  hard to see how these would fit into the [TS]

  quote unquote forehead of Abbas L I'm [TS]

  sorry bezel free iPhone without [TS]

  significant cutouts in addition to [TS]

  what's already required for the [TS]

  front-facing camera and proximity sensor [TS]

  blah blah blah all that to say it is [TS]

  fast dependable delightful face [TS]

  recognition that is absolutely possible [TS]

  and is in fact par for the course on [TS]

  some high-end Windows devices like the [TS]

  surface yes it does introduce some UI [TS]

  requirements for explicit confirmation [TS]

  of intent for example with purchases [TS]

  it's just a matter of time before [TS]

  someone makes it work on a phone I [TS]

  wouldn't be at all surprised if it to [TS]

  hear Apple had done that this isn't a [TS]

  thread of feedback with all the people [TS]

  all the windows users telling us about [TS]

  Windows hello many months ago and as [TS]

  this person point the reason I picked [TS]

  this email out is it is a Microsoft [TS]

  employee and they talk specifically [TS]

  about the challenges of getting it down [TS]

  into a phone because obviously you have [TS]

  luxuries on even just a laptop for in [TS]

  fact that you don't have on phones you [TS]

  got a lot of space to put sensors in [TS]

  there you got a lot more power a lot [TS]

  bigger battery usually you have more [TS]

  computing power these days the phone was [TS]

  probably faster than half of the things [TS]

  they listed so so we'll see so yes the [TS]

  face recognition on Windows hello is [TS]

  there we got varying reports some people [TS]

  say it's amazing it already exists that [TS]

  it's wonderful that people said I can't [TS]

  get it to recognize my face it takes [TS]

  like three to five seconds then it [TS]

  doesn't work half the time and I hate it [TS]

  so mixed results but in general I think [TS]

  mostly people like Windows hello and [TS]

  think that it works well there's just a [TS]

  question of can you get this in a phone [TS]

  I love that like the new like Windows [TS]

  did it is a lot like the old opera did [TS]

  it like that Windows is now so [TS]

  marginalized that like the cutting-edge [TS]

  features of like the surface hardware [TS]

  and like the stuff that's like the whole [TS]

  pure of Microsoft stack hardware [TS]

  software like so few people relatively [TS]

  speaking are using that and enjoying [TS]

  that to the point especially like around [TS]

  these parts around like you know Apple [TS]

  II tech podcast circles that we have no [TS]

  idea what they're doing and they're so [TS]

  like and they're doing important stuff [TS]

  and innovative stuff and they just want [TS]

  everyone to know that so much and [TS]

  meanwhile [TS]

  we're all like no one's ever done this [TS]

  before like it's it's exactly what [TS]

  exactly why the Opera people have were [TS]

  always so mad because opera was doing [TS]

  all these great features that other [TS]

  browsers would add five years later and [TS]

  act like no one had ever done them [TS]

  before and everyone else believed the [TS]

  reason people didn't know about it [TS]

  because opera in the case of operas that [TS]

  opera was would fall down on like the [TS]

  basics like that it was people didn't [TS]

  use it not just because it was obscure [TS]

  and weird but because it just wasn't as [TS]

  good a web browser in most cases those [TS]

  other ones for like boring practical [TS]

  reasons Windows is not as good of an [TS]

  operating system that's what we use [TS]

  these things anyway certainly doesn't [TS]

  have the mind sure but like Windows [TS]

  hello like I said we talked we talked [TS]

  about it on this very podcast it's not [TS]

  like we didn't know that it existed and [TS]

  a lot of these features and I think we [TS]

  talked about the Samsung face [TS]

  recognition we a lot of these features [TS]

  we do know have even been tried in foam [TS]

  for it foam form factors before but you [TS]

  know the reason we don't like have them [TS]

  in front of mine is because I mean I [TS]

  mentioned the Amazon fire phone last [TS]

  time we like the five cameras and all [TS]

  the sensors and everything is like if [TS]

  they don't work really well it's like oh [TS]

  well yeah they tried to do a thing but [TS]

  they essentially failed and so it will [TS]

  rise to the level of public [TS]

  consciousness [TS]

  if it becomes popular and everyone [TS]

  agrees that it works really well and [TS]

  because if we're every where and every [TS]

  phone would be using it and so like no [TS]

  one has really cracked it kind of like [TS]

  fingerprint centers that essentially [TS]

  work really well everywhere now and so [TS]

  they're very very common so that's why [TS]

  everybody knows unlocking the phone with [TS]

  your finger as a thing whoever was first [TS]

  with that and getting it to work [TS]

  obviously we know about it from the [TS]

  Apple world but for all we know Android [TS]

  was doing it you know years before but [TS]

  anyway that technology is kind of [TS]

  settled and it works just fine face [TS]

  recognition is still in the realm of [TS]

  maybe on some desktop computers and some [TS]

  operating systems some people think it [TS]

  works great but no one has really nailed [TS]

  it on the phone to the point where it's [TS]

  better than fingerprint unlock or you [TS]

  know typing in a code or whatever I also [TS]

  do still do think that there are [TS]

  significant challenges with face [TS]

  recognition as an unlock method around [TS]

  the issues of how do you confirm the [TS]

  authentication and what do you do if you [TS]

  don't want to authenticate something you [TS]

  know and one one person I think it was [TS]

  on Twitter pointed out the example of [TS]

  like what if someone takes your phone [TS]

  out of your hand and hold it up to your [TS]

  face and then it like if the only come [TS]

  from [TS]

  thing is recognize your face and then [TS]

  tap a thing on screen to say okay then [TS]

  somebody can take your phone and just [TS]

  authorize it right there in front of you [TS]

  and then walk away we're gonna make [TS]

  another Indiana Jones reference but a [TS]

  writ is lost our current so you know [TS]

  that one like the the watch [TS]

  authentication where once you unlock [TS]

  your watch as long as it's on your wrist [TS]

  it's it's you know it stays unlocked but [TS]

  if someone is to steal your watch it [TS]

  automatically locks when it leaves your [TS]

  wrist so I can imagine a similar feature [TS]

  where the gesture of picking it up and [TS]

  putting your finger on part of the [TS]

  screen your finger has to be there then [TS]

  then the camera recognizes you then you [TS]

  press the screen or slide in a direction [TS]

  or whatever and if any point in that [TS]

  chain like that your finger leaves the [TS]

  phone surface oh wherever you're [TS]

  supposed to be holding them then then [TS]

  it's all over so some pull the thing out [TS]

  here out of your hand and you know I [TS]

  don't know it's a difficult problem [TS]

  you'd have to incorporate you'd have to [TS]

  incorporate the fingerprint sensor I [TS]

  guess but right like and the thing is [TS]

  like the more complex that the gesture [TS]

  is or the more requirements it has to [TS]

  succeed in to unlock the phone and to [TS]

  keep the phone unlocked the more often [TS]

  that it won't work in legitimate use you [TS]

  know the more legitimate use cases I [TS]

  have were like okay well what if I want [TS]

  to often to keep my phone while it's [TS]

  sitting on a table and I could put my [TS]

  thumb on it now but you know if you have [TS]

  to have your hand on a certain part like [TS]

  touch ID is so good I feel like it [TS]

  solves so it solves or avoids so many of [TS]

  these other weird little problems that [TS]

  it would it would really take a lot to [TS]

  make it worth not using touch ID anymore [TS]

  I don't know I'm glad this is still a [TS]

  rumored feature so don't even know if [TS]

  shipping at all we won't have to [TS]

  consider this but oh I guess we'll all [TS]

  find out I still think it would be neat [TS]

  to like just have it sort of work by [TS]

  magic and just pick up your phone and [TS]

  using it's just automatically unlocked [TS]

  because you're you I would probably [TS]

  sacrifice that for for the security of [TS]

  like oh what if someone rips the phone [TS]

  out of your hand because you know that's [TS]

  not that common enough occurrence and my [TS]

  circles that I travel in but for other [TS]

  people I mean obviously if you have an [TS]

  option to turn this on or off [TS]

  really help let people decide what their [TS]

  security profile is and we said in the [TS]

  last show if you're in a situation like [TS]

  in an airport or you're going through [TS]

  immigration in some country you'd want [TS]

  to avoid both touch ID and deface [TS]

  recognition because you can be you know [TS]

  compelled to unlock your phone in that [TS]

  way there are other ways where you can [TS]

  lock down your phone so that you have to [TS]

  enter a big long password which they [TS]

  would have to you know use what was it [TS]

  rubber-hose cryptography pipe wrench [TS]

  retiree tog Rafi this depending on what [TS]

  version butters from the xkcd comic or [TS]

  from the idea that the ask a CD comic is [TS]

  derived from they just beat you with a [TS]

  pipe wrench until you tell them the [TS]

  password this reminds me also of the the [TS]

  watch unlock on the desktop so if you [TS]

  have an Apple watch that is actively [TS]

  unlocked you're I forget the exact [TS]

  requirements I think you're all on the [TS]

  same like iCloud account or something [TS]

  like that and you've enabled everything [TS]

  on every device then what you can do is [TS]

  if your watch is physically close to say [TS]

  your iMac or something like that and you [TS]

  tap a keyboard button or a mouse button [TS]

  to wake it up then it's it will see if [TS]

  your watch is nearby and if it's nearby [TS]

  and it's authenticated etc then it will [TS]

  go ahead and unlock the Mac for you and [TS]

  that seems perfectly reasonable until [TS]

  you think about say in office where you [TS]

  know most of us work in cubicles and so [TS]

  what if I'm a couple cubes down or maybe [TS]

  it the next cube over and somebody goes [TS]

  up to my work machine and neo smacks the [TS]

  keyboard and it feels like my watch is [TS]

  close enough then guess what that [TS]

  thing's getting unlocked and on the [TS]

  surface that's terrible but in reality [TS]

  you should in theory be close enough [TS]

  that you can hopefully see what is going [TS]

  on with your device and if you're not [TS]

  close enough to see what's going on it [TS]

  hopefully wouldn't allow itself to be [TS]

  unlocked but it's a similar kind of [TS]

  problem right where there's a pretty [TS]

  reasonable explanation or expectation I [TS]

  should say that you are close and that [TS]

  is the intended results for your device [TS]

  to unlock but you don't know for sure [TS]

  now the difference is which I didn't get [TS]

  a chance to talk to you before the chat [TS]

  rooms started yelling at me that you get [TS]

  a notification on your watch hey [TS]

  such-and-such has been unlocked [TS]

  but it to me rings a similar set of [TS]

  potential problems and for me it's been [TS]

  working out really well and it's super [TS]

  convenient so I kind of agree with you [TS]

  John that in the circles I travel in [TS]

  yeah I'm not too worried about it [TS]

  by the way Casey as the person who knows [TS]

  that they've seen Raiders can you do you [TS]

  know what reference I was going to make [TS]

  before I bail no I definitely [TS]

  I've seen Raiders many times but I do [TS]

  not know they're a beginning bit with [TS]

  the idol I gotta take the idol off but [TS]

  put a sandbag of equal weight like [TS]

  someone maintained at the part that [TS]

  you're it's kind of like stealing your [TS]

  watch while keeping something touching [TS]

  the sensor on the bottom so it stays [TS]

  unlocked you know I bet Apollo Robbins [TS]

  could do that yeah that's I was just [TS]

  about to ask who's that guy that can do [TS]

  that unbelievable like stealing stuff [TS]

  while you're talking to that but that's [TS]

  his next level you gets an Apple [TS]

  sponsorship like he can remove people's [TS]

  watches without them knowing but can you [TS]

  do it while at the same time like [TS]

  keeping something touching the proximity [TS]

  sensors underneath the watch so it [TS]

  remains unlocked that's the trick all [TS]

  right moving on before I get stuck in [TS]

  some Apollo Robbins videos they are [TS]

  mesmerizing all right an anonymous Apple [TS]

  source familiar with mdns responder has [TS]

  also written in they said now I'm [TS]

  quoting you said mdns responder was a [TS]

  mess and had tons of bugs John said that [TS]

  we didn't say that [TS]

  I couldn't let that pass without a [TS]

  response the reasons for the Bonjour [TS]

  rewrite were entirely political nothing [TS]

  to do with mdns responder if your [TS]

  manager looking for something for your [TS]

  team to do rewriting some extra software [TS]

  seems much safer much existing software [TS]

  excuse me seems much safer much more [TS]

  predictable than thinking of something [TS]

  new for yourself rewriting something [TS]

  from scratch as we all know is that [TS]

  terrible idea and there's a link to the [TS]

  seminal Joel and software blog post [TS]

  about this very thing coming back to the [TS]

  email if you measure it in admittedly [TS]

  crude simple numerical terms of number [TS]

  of devices deployed mdns responders [TS]

  arguably the most successful piece of [TS]

  software ever to come out of Apple as [TS]

  well as being on an almost every Apple [TS]

  product it's also many other devices [TS]

  almost all network printers TiVo network [TS]

  cameras etc and in every Android device [TS]

  which is not just Android phones and [TS]

  tablets but also Android based [TS]

  accessories if you consider the quality [TS]

  and robustness of the mdns responder [TS]

  code is illustrated by the fact that [TS]

  even after being neglected for five [TS]

  years finding an old copy of mdns [TS]

  responder from a previous OS version and [TS]

  installing it on Yosemite still worked [TS]

  better than discovery d software Apple [TS]

  brief briefly shipped before reverting [TS]

  back to mdns responder I'm amused that [TS]

  you heard that the return to UM DNS [TS]

  responder was instigated by celebrity [TS]

  emailing Tim Cook you're right about [TS]

  that part except it wasn't Bono [TS]

  wasn't Bono was Vint Cerf fair enough [TS]

  and who is Vint Cerf can you explain to [TS]

  the audience that's why we have link to [TS]

  the Wikipedia page one of the fathers of [TS]

  the internet an old guy who did a lots [TS]

  of important work on the early internet [TS]

  is that you know I'm not that old so [TS]

  well first getting back to the part of [TS]

  this of NBS responder being a buggy [TS]

  there's a basis for that like first of [TS]

  all being neglected for five years it's [TS]

  never good for any piece of software [TS]

  second as a regular user it was not [TS]

  uncommon to have weird problems with [TS]

  your Mac and to have the solution be [TS]

  killing em DNS responder right I think I [TS]

  don't know if you guys remember that but [TS]

  I certainly do right so whether you want [TS]

  to consider it a buggy mess or whatever [TS]

  it is something that would be a [TS]

  candidate for hey this this essential [TS]

  piece of the system seems like it might [TS]

  be getting a little creaky and if [TS]

  someone has a good idea about how to [TS]

  vastly improve it by all means do it the [TS]

  Jones software thing about you should [TS]

  think you should never do you should [TS]

  never rewrite suffer a law that's been [TS]

  hashed out to death I mean it's it's a [TS]

  good presentation of a particular of one [TS]

  side of a particular issue but of course [TS]

  sometimes you do have to rewrite things [TS]

  so many good things that we love came [TS]

  from the decision to rewrite things you [TS]

  just have to know when to do it and when [TS]

  not to do it was basically Joel's point [TS]

  but it was expressed in a very [TS]

  hyperbolic way of like oh you should [TS]

  just totally never do this let me tell [TS]

  you all the great things that are about [TS]

  like software that already has all the [TS]

  corner cases and you know all the [TS]

  education all the things that you've [TS]

  learned over the years right baked into [TS]

  it but on the Mac we have examples of [TS]

  rewrites that are great and a lot of you [TS]

  know important things that we have on [TS]

  the Mac today are because someone [TS]

  decided to abandon some old code and [TS]

  rewrite it and we have some cautionary [TS]

  tales so I think there's a reasonable [TS]

  mix and I think it's not you know out of [TS]

  bounds to say the mdns responder as it [TS]

  was a candidate because it did cause [TS]

  real-world problems for regular people [TS]

  to the [TS]

  it wasn't exactly the P Ram point but it [TS]

  was the point at a certain point in the [TS]

  history of the Mac that killing him DNS [TS]

  responder to fix a whole host of [TS]

  problems it became like one of those [TS]

  things you might just want to try [TS]

  because it could be what's going now [TS]

  politically speaking who knows maybe [TS]

  this because they said oh just don't [TS]

  ever fix MDS respond over five years [TS]

  whoever this person who wrote it seems [TS]

  to think the project was neglected but [TS]

  obviously discovery D was not a [TS]

  successful rewrite and whatever reason [TS]

  that the rewrite was undertaken and the [TS]

  people who did it and whether that the [TS]

  expertise are really understood what [TS]

  mdns responder was doing and how it did [TS]

  it and all the decisions that led to its [TS]

  design all the things they learned it [TS]

  just seems like it was not it was not a [TS]

  project undertaken with the right [TS]

  attitude and by the right people but [TS]

  anyway this as to the idea of MDS [TS]

  responder being on lots of different [TS]

  systems this is news to me as well I [TS]

  suppose it's got to be an open-source [TS]

  component or maybe it's part of some [TS]

  wider like I don't whether it's part of [TS]

  Darwin or something even bigger [TS]

  open-source component I don't know I [TS]

  mean I only know it because it's that [TS]

  process that I had to kill my Mac [TS]

  sometimes it was super important and [TS]

  then most people know because it's the [TS]

  thing that came back to your place [TS]

  discovery didn't make your max work [TS]

  again well I did some very very quick [TS]

  research sorry for everyone who knows a [TS]

  lot more about it than this but so [TS]

  Bonjour is the is the zeroconf [TS]

  networking protocol that Apple [TS]

  popularized under that name and [TS]

  basically if you wanted to you know use [TS]

  like a network printer or I use network [TS]

  shares that were just listed by their [TS]

  names automatically find each other [TS]

  there's there's a very good chance it's [TS]

  using this Bonjour protocol part of the [TS]

  Bonjour software is M the NS responder [TS]

  which is like the daemon on the systems [TS]

  that manages that that apparently MDX [TS]

  responder itself is open-source under [TS]

  the Apache License and and so it [TS]

  apparently went into all sorts of things [TS]

  that had to support zeroconf networking [TS]

  and/or bond the Bonjour protocol I think [TS]

  you mean rendezvous right what a better [TS]

  name rendezvous it was like so zeroconf [TS]

  is the techie nerdy tech nology and then [TS]

  rendezvous was how Apple branded it but [TS]

  then in one of the rare cases or Apple [TS]

  lost or decided not to fight someone [TS]

  challenging their I figure what [TS]

  situation was whether they just said oh [TS]

  never mind [TS]

  in your name or they actually lost the [TS]

  court case they have to change it so [TS]

  they changed upon her which is not bad [TS]

  but boy rendezvous it was better exactly [TS]

  so anyway so it appears that like lots [TS]

  of different operating systems and [TS]

  devices like printers and stuff all [TS]

  embedded ambience responder because it [TS]

  was open source so apparently that's why [TS]

  it kind of went in all these different [TS]

  things and went everywhere and is [TS]

  apparently in Android as well which is [TS]

  pretty pretty impressive that's that's [TS]

  you know that is okay I gotta give this [TS]

  guy credit for pointing out the stuff [TS]

  like that is really quite widespread and [TS]

  I always just assumed it was just an [TS]

  apple thing but nope [TS]

  oh I would add the idea of it being [TS]

  successful in it being deployed [TS]

  everywhere two very different things [TS]

  there's lots of software that's deployed [TS]

  everywhere the success if your success [TS]

  is just measured by how far and wide you [TS]

  spread all sorts of terrible things can [TS]

  be quote unquote successful Windows that [TS]

  many but even if you just take some [TS]

  terrible code in the core of UNIX that's [TS]

  just been passed around because it's [TS]

  sort of unimportant but it's just that's [TS]

  where a lot of bugs and buffer overflows [TS]

  come from some really old library and [TS]

  some BSD UNIX variant that just gets [TS]

  passed around and no one ever looks at [TS]

  it and it's just gross crusty little [TS]

  corner and yeah anyway I don't know [TS]

  exactly why mdns responder was chosen as [TS]

  a victim for a rewrite but I think it [TS]

  was it was a reasonable decision but it [TS]

  was followed up by terrible executions [TS]

  so you gotta you get both parts of it if [TS]

  you if you identify the parts of justice [TS]

  and that could benefit from rewrites [TS]

  then you do a bad job you have not [TS]

  succeeded what it's worth open-source [TS]

  not Apple comm slash source slash mdns [TS]

  responder oh and by the way now that we [TS]

  know more about the open source nature [TS]

  of this maybe it wasn't such a good [TS]

  candidate because when there is a [TS]

  project like an open source project that [TS]

  lots of other people use that is sort of [TS]

  being worked on like other people have a [TS]

  stake in this like if mdns responder [TS]

  really is broken or whatever presumably [TS]

  there's lots of people from lots of [TS]

  different companies that are motivated [TS]

  to make it not suck right and you say [TS]

  you know what we're gonna write our own [TS]

  thing it's like saying we've been using [TS]

  WebKit which everybody helps update but [TS]

  we would like our own engine so we're [TS]

  just gonna start our own from [TS]

  scratch again it's probably not a great [TS]

  idea now I'm DNS responders house same [TS]

  things web kid obviously in terms of [TS]

  complexity importance but if everyone [TS]

  else in the industry is using endianness [TS]

  responder and presumably updating it and [TS]

  fixing it and you decide to go to on [TS]

  your own boy you better have the best [TS]

  team available with lots of people on it [TS]

  to equal the effort and smarts and [TS]

  experience of everyone else who's [TS]

  maintaining in the as responder so [TS]

  perhaps it wasn't actually such a great [TS]

  candidate this episode is brought to you [TS]

  by Squarespace start building your [TS]

  website today at squarespace.com and her [TS]

  offer code ATP at checkout to get 10% [TS]

  off make your next move with Squarespace [TS]

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  I said store podcasts like these are [TS]

  hard things to host and Squarespace can [TS]

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  squarespace.com to see for yourself when [TS]

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  Squarespace [TS]

  all right Syd Polk writes I was at Apple [TS]

  when do you ILD to was developed and [TS]

  released there was a guy who worked on [TS]

  linkers he was bothered one day by how [TS]

  slow do LD was so he spent the weekend [TS]

  writing a new one from scratch because [TS]

  why not it was eventually released in a [TS]

  software update during the 10.3 cycle [TS]

  but the release notes for it were [TS]

  included in the 10.4 release the [TS]

  engineer who wrote dild 2 also wrote [TS]

  dild 3 I trust Kim's specifically also [TS]

  this is what public betas are for we did [TS]

  not have those in 2003 which is kind of [TS]

  funny I think people are surprised at [TS]

  exactly how few people are responsible [TS]

  for such important part so this isn't [TS]

  like they always assume is like hundreds [TS]

  of engineer and is like I figure what [TS]

  Twitter's employee count was some was [TS]

  something obscene like 3,000 employees [TS]

  or something like what are all those [TS]

  people doing and then you learn like how [TS]

  many people work on you know the dynamic [TS]

  linker for the Mac operating system and [TS]

  iOS and TV Oh us and watch OS and you're [TS]

  like boy that's probably a team of a [TS]

  couple hundred people it's like five [TS]

  people it's like five you know and [TS]

  really like like two or three of them [TS]

  are doing the bulk of the work and the [TS]

  guy who did the D way LD you know is [TS]

  largely responsible for the do LD three [TS]

  also was responsible to do lb 2 and he [TS]

  did it in a weekend and an earlier more [TS]

  innocent time push it out in a software [TS]

  update in the middle of the ten point [TS]

  three point next cycle you know this is [TS]

  a different time but even today like the [TS]

  teams are teams at Apple are smaller [TS]

  than you think [TS]

  and that gets back to the whole like how [TS]

  money can't solve your your talent and [TS]

  retention problems like if you could [TS]

  mold money into the shape of people [TS]

  Gollum style or Gollum style and or how [TS]

  to pronounce it in this context Apple [TS]

  would do it but they can't they actually [TS]

  have to hire people and keep them happy [TS]

  and give them interesting things to do [TS]

  and you need the right people and very [TS]

  often some of the best software is [TS]

  written by very small teams of people [TS]

  who really know what they're doing and [TS]

  are very enthusiastic rather than [TS]

  hundreds and hundreds of people being [TS]

  directed by seventeen levels of [TS]

  management fair enough [TS]

  also it's Gangnam style actually I [TS]

  probably even pronounce that wrong there [TS]

  you go all right anyway please cut that [TS]

  from the show so I don't get a million [TS]

  pieces of feedback no anyhow hair in [TS]

  Kirkland writes in on my Mac to FX I had [TS]

  that is not a very good name of him [TS]

  honest but [TS]

  on my Mac what's not good about 2fx [TS]

  that's one of the best Mac names ever [TS]

  one of the best Mac's everyone FX who [TS]

  does like FX it's pronounced effects [TS]

  it's got an accident so it's cool that's [TS]

  a it's a pun for effects it was the name [TS]

  of a movie in the 80s about special [TS]

  effects they don't make those anymore [TS]

  now you get now you see them which is [TS]

  about magic or something terrible [TS]

  remember movie magic that was a great TV [TS]

  show effects the whole yeah neither one [TS]

  of you is probably seeing that effects [TS]

  and that's probably a terrible 80s movie [TS]

  but Casey might like it don't you make [TS]

  fun of fun for October no I'm just [TS]

  saying like you're not gonna turn up [TS]

  your nose at a movie with like slightly [TS]

  dated sort of tropes or whatever anyway [TS]

  FX was a great movie to get movies [TS]

  terrible in case you would like it I [TS]

  know right great movie to catch on a [TS]

  Saturday when you're 12 years old I [TS]

  don't know if I love you John or both on [TS]

  my Mac two effects horrible name or not [TS]

  right snare in Kirkland I had a floppy [TS]

  disc or a little while why are we still [TS]

  talking about this i poppy disc [TS]

  autoloader that would hold 25 discs for [TS]

  unattempted retrospect backup and it [TS]

  relied on auto inject this is the [TS]

  discussion actually I was having with [TS]

  Merlin at some point oh I think it was [TS]

  off the air about I had this [TS]

  recollection that there were devices [TS]

  that would do the floppy swapping for [TS]

  you I'm like that's probably just [TS]

  something I was thinking of when I was a [TS]

  kid I don't think those things ever [TS]

  existed because when you're swapping [TS]

  floppies manually you're like surely I [TS]

  can make a machine do you know some sort [TS]

  of Rube Goldberg machine to do this for [TS]

  me right but this person says that [TS]

  apparently such thing actually existed [TS]

  so my I convinced myself that it was [TS]

  like a false memory but then I asked you [TS]

  remember the make and model and he [TS]

  didn't I would love to if anyone anyway [TS]

  if anybody has knows more about these [TS]

  can provide like a picture or a name or [TS]

  something to Google so we can find one [TS]

  of these things and see what it looked [TS]

  like I would love to see such a thing [TS]

  you can always you can't rely on the [TS]

  world of large-scale backup hardware [TS]

  like tape drives and everything else for [TS]

  the weirdest stuff out there you do a [TS]

  large-scale backups on to 3.5 inch [TS]

  floppy disks that sounds great right [TS]

  well you know and and because like there [TS]

  was a need for that like not everybody [TS]

  needed that at that time but someone [TS]

  needed it and someone was willing to pay [TS]

  thousands of dollars for that probably [TS]

  yeah retrospect whether it was a Mac [TS]

  backup program which someone the chat [TS]

  room was saying was terrible but I think [TS]

  had some kind of neat features I used it [TS]

  for many years all right any other [TS]

  follow-up kids we're still in follow up [TS]

  I know this was a long one those emails [TS]

  were good though so that's true [TS]

  they were pretty good I'll give I'll [TS]

  give John a bye on this one because we [TS]

  all know good follow-up is our fault but [TS]

  bad follow-up is John's fault that [TS]

  sounds right all right so chief waffler [TS]

  in chief what'd you buy these days this [TS]

  was not a waffle this was just straight [TS]

  up narrower down that question Casey [TS]

  what did you buy in the last four [TS]

  biggest thing physically speaking that [TS]

  you purchased recently what what impulse [TS]

  buy what multi-thousand dollar impulse [TS]

  buy did you just do so we've had our our [TS]

  wonderful plasma 42-inch Panasonic 85u [TS]

  TV for about ten years and it's fine [TS]

  it's great but you know in in the room [TS]

  that we have it in like we we have a [TS]

  pretty large like first floor great room [TS]

  in our house when I first got this TV I [TS]

  was still in apartments and it was great [TS]

  for apartment for apartments in the room [TS]

  we had it in it was a little small for [TS]

  like the setup we had in that room but [TS]

  it was still fine so I was just waiting [TS]

  for it to die before I replaced it I [TS]

  didn't want it to die for a long time [TS]

  because a nice 1080p plasma was still [TS]

  kind of the best thing you could get for [TS]

  a while and I often wanted to die for a [TS]

  while because over time like when I [TS]

  bought it you could get a 42 inch screen [TS]

  that was like the highest quality type [TS]

  of screen today if you want a great [TS]

  image quality TV the smallest you can [TS]

  get them in is usually 55 inches and for [TS]

  a long time I was I was kind of hoping [TS]

  that my TV would hold out long or long [TS]

  or longer because [TS]

  a 55-inch plasmas were huge like you [TS]

  know because plasmas still retained [TS]

  quite a bit of thickness and bezel with [TS]

  you know even even until the end of [TS]

  plasmas compared to the other [TS]

  technologies and so a 55 inch plasma was [TS]

  a pretty big thing and I thought that [TS]

  would be too big for the room and for [TS]

  the TV stand and everything else so I [TS]

  really didn't want to upgrade to that I [TS]

  also like 1080p was great and like i [TS]

  already had 1080p with great color great [TS]

  black levels like great you know great [TS]

  brightness everything else because [TS]

  plasmas are awesome so I was basically I [TS]

  didn't want to have to replace my TV [TS]

  until he got a really great 4k HDR OLED [TS]

  TV because I hate LCD like LCD is a [TS]

  terrible TV technology the only thing [TS]

  good about it is that it costs almost [TS]

  nothing that's it [TS]

  everything else about LCD TVs is [TS]

  terrible so I wanted to use go from [TS]

  plasma to OLED and don't don't even give [TS]

  me anything about LED TVs because we all [TS]

  know that's fake that's a wonderful [TS]

  marketing sleight of hand I can't [TS]

  believe they pulled it off but they did [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  when we were at the beach last week the [TS]

  house had a really big cheap LCD TV that [TS]

  was about 50 inches and TIFF messaged me [TS]

  one night saying ok we can get a bigger [TS]

  TV I said nothing and within 45 seconds [TS]

  it was already ordered in on its way why [TS]

  was she saying that because she was [TS]

  watching the cruddy LCD TV in there it [TS]

  was like why does that mean we can get [TS]

  AB it was the one in the house 2 small [TS]

  fir [TS]

  I think she was fine I think seeing the [TS]

  cruddy one finally convinced her that a [TS]

  bigger TV can look really nice oh it was [TS]

  this one bigger it's 50 you said yeah [TS]

  it's 50 and I was compared to 42 and so [TS]

  she was like wow this 50-inch does it [TS]

  feels so much bigger sitting closer to [TS]

  it then yeah she also was sitting closer [TS]

  to it yes but anyway I've been dying to [TS]

  get a know a 4k OLED TV ever since I saw [TS]

  one and Best Buy like last year and I [TS]

  already had all the research done that [TS]

  like you know that if I had the reason [TS]

  to get a 4k TV this year that I would [TS]

  get an LG [TS]

  you know whatever the LG 4k OLED series [TS]

  of the year was because all the reviews [TS]

  seemed to be in pretty wide agreement [TS]

  that that's basically the best one out [TS]

  there [TS]

  so finally TIFF said okay we can get a [TS]

  bigger TV and I said absolutely nothing [TS]

  about it until it arrived because I did [TS]

  not want to bring the conversation back [TS]

  up to have it maybe be back down or have [TS]

  her mind changed this I'm not sure if [TS]

  this is indicative of you having [TS]

  mastered marriage or you having a real [TS]

  and true problem with buying shit or [TS]

  maybe both to be honest with you TIFF [TS]

  did not appreciate this strategy where [TS]

  are you sleeping tonight are you [TS]

  this resulted in a she to get me back [TS]

  for it she pairs got me undoing all the [TS]

  wires and stuff with the old one which [TS]

  is basically used to periscope of my [TS]

  butt leaning over the TV stand for like [TS]

  an hour and now we are even but by the [TS]

  way the small TV problem remains we have [TS]

  a small TV in our bedroom and it was so [TS]

  hard to find a small television they [TS]

  forget about like the best picture [TS]

  quality just like not the worst picture [TS]

  quality because small televisions are [TS]

  like Oh someone's gonna use in the [TS]

  kitchen so put the crappiest thing you [TS]

  can it hasn't gotten better over time as [TS]

  everything's crept up it used to be the [TS]

  good TVs were 42 that new go TVs were 50 [TS]

  this is the minimum size now like you [TS]

  said the good TVs are 55 minimum size [TS]

  everything's creeping up so to try to [TS]

  find like now it's a choices kitchen TV [TS]

  or 55 inch and in between the bill mans [TS]

  land of crap yeah basically it's so I'm [TS]

  sorry what model did you order Marco so [TS]

  I I did what I had been researching to [TS]

  do I did a quick double-check before [TS]

  just make sure nothing have changed [TS]

  but everyone seemed to agree so I got [TS]

  the LG 2017 4k OLED series that has [TS]

  sevens in the names and they have they [TS]

  put a number in front of or a letter in [TS]

  front of them to indicate [TS]

  as far as I can tell nothing except like [TS]

  the soundbar that's included so you can [TS]

  pay like a small or you well no no no [TS]

  these are small amounts you can pay a [TS]

  smaller amount to get one with just like [TS]

  regular TV speakers in it like on the [TS]

  back and then you can pay like a [TS]

  thousand dollars more to get a little [TS]

  sound bar in the bottom and I hate sound [TS]

  bars anyway so that that was not gonna [TS]

  be a thing and then you could pay a [TS]

  thousand dollars more than that to get [TS]

  like even better of a sound bar on the [TS]

  bottom or something and and so the one I [TS]

  got is the base model of the 2017 one [TS]

  which is the LG c7 TV so it's amazing [TS]

  that 55 inches yeah 55 yeah so why [TS]

  didn't you go to 65 well first I knew I [TS]

  wanted I knew I had to like sell this [TS]

  when it arrived and and now that we see [TS]

  it in the room I think I actually [TS]

  probably could have pulled off 65 but [TS]

  the reason why I'm glad I'm pretty sure [TS]

  I'm happy enough with the 55 now is that [TS]

  first of all it is a substantial upgrade [TS]

  from 42 but the good thing is the TV [TS]

  itself does not look that much bigger on [TS]

  the shelf because there's such a [TS]

  difference in bezel width like the the [TS]

  new one has almost no bezel at all and [TS]

  the old one the bezels were like you [TS]

  know three inches on all sides it's a [TS]

  huge difference in bezel width and [TS]

  thickness like the new one looks really [TS]

  sleek and has a screen that is more than [TS]

  10 inches bigger but it doesn't look [TS]

  like that that much bigger of a TV which [TS]

  is nice because we we don't want the TV [TS]

  to like dominate the look of the room [TS]

  like when you get a TV that's too big [TS]

  for the room or this even just like kind [TS]

  of big for the room that is like your [TS]

  eye is drawn to that even when it's off [TS]

  like it's you just have like this big [TS]

  black wall in your room like it's [TS]

  something that is very dominant and [TS]

  because like our TV is not like in some [TS]

  like back room of the house it's like [TS]

  the main room like we walk into our [TS]

  house and you're in this like main room [TS]

  that has the TV in the living room and [TS]

  dining room all like in one big room to [TS]

  make the TV substantially bigger I think [TS]

  would would look too big for the room [TS]

  but now we have the actual screen size [TS]

  of the bigger TV without it looking that [TS]

  much bigger so it's almost like we've [TS]

  got the extra screen size like for free [TS]

  visually but the head about the touch [TS]

  idea [TS]

  the back though the only thing is TVs [TS]

  have gotten a lot more full of crappy [TS]

  software since I last bought a TV 10 [TS]

  years ago or worse products through [TS]

  software yeah exactly green like this TV [TS]

  takes a good 20 seconds to boot I don't [TS]

  know why a TV has to boot but [TS]

  fortunately if you just put it in like [TS]

  standby mode instead of turning it [TS]

  because it's got away boss you have to [TS]

  say it like yeah all software on TVs is [TS]

  terrible but everyone agrees this is the [TS]

  best software on TVs or close to the [TS]

  best I mean there is there's some [TS]

  disagreement but if you want any kind of [TS]

  quote-unquote Smart TV features the [TS]

  webOS things that that LG uses are the [TS]

  least disgusting let's say that because [TS]

  nobody does what Panasonic used to which [TS]

  is completely utilitarian minimal like I [TS]

  remember my first Panasonic Plasma had [TS]

  like the volume the little volume bar [TS]

  that appears and screaming you change [TS]

  the volume mm-hmm [TS]

  was really small and was jammed against [TS]

  the bottom edge of the screen so it [TS]

  obscured its little like nobody does [TS]

  that now now you change the volume and [TS]

  it's like a giant fairy comes out and [TS]

  waves a magic wand that sparkles fly [TS]

  from it and this bar from a bubbling [TS]

  liquid moves forward in this pulsing [TS]

  past I know my god just change the [TS]

  volume the good thing is it's actually [TS]

  you know even though that the software [TS]

  is really kind of overbearing it is it [TS]

  doesn't seem like it's horrible software [TS]

  it's just it's software where I don't [TS]

  really need there to be software but the [TS]

  good thing is it also has built-in apps [TS]

  for Netflix and Amazon video so every TV [TS]

  has that excite no III this is this is [TS]

  again like the offer people it's like [TS]

  yes we know we invented those years ago [TS]

  yeah I know but so it's new to me and [TS]

  it's actually kind of nice and it's got [TS]

  the the little accelerometer remote with [TS]

  a little mouse cursor thing which I [TS]

  thought would be terrible but having [TS]

  used it it's it's actually pretty good [TS]

  we have different opinions about that no [TS]

  you know like it I mean the alternative [TS]

  is using like a five-way pad to move a [TS]

  little thing around I like the little [TS]

  accelerometer of course we're thinking I [TS]

  have not found it to be to have the [TS]

  precision I want maybe that's just me [TS]

  maybe I don't have the precision I want [TS]

  but would you prefer to go tap tap tap [TS]

  tap tap tap because I find it I find it [TS]

  put it this way [TS]

  I find it [TS]

  more precise than the other main thing I [TS]

  use to navigate stuff on TV which is a [TS]

  stupid Apple TV remote where I'm forever [TS]

  trying to swipe vertically and [TS]

  horizontally and that's true it's [TS]

  misinterpreting me yeah yeah so for the [TS]

  listeners who might have missed what we [TS]

  were talking about here the remote to [TS]

  this behaves a lot like a Wii mote where [TS]

  the TV somehow senses I don't know if [TS]

  it's only solar ometer or if it's also a [TS]

  division based thing like the Wii mote [TS]

  head with a little IR bar but somehow [TS]

  they're remote you just wave it around [TS]

  and it moves a little mouse pointer [TS]

  thing on screen and it doesn't I don't [TS]

  I'd say it does not work as well as a [TS]

  Wii mote does in that way is it isn't as [TS]

  precise or stable so it's fine [TS]

  ultimately you know it I'm assuming that [TS]

  there's gonna be a 4k Apple TV update [TS]

  this fall once we have that 4k Apple TV [TS]

  I don't expect to ever use the built-in [TS]

  software on this TV again it's the kind [TS]

  of thing I'm just like setting it up [TS]

  once going through all the pictures [TS]

  having trying to find out how to make it [TS]

  look normal and then you just leave it [TS]

  after that so I I don't expect the [TS]

  software of this TV to matter at all to [TS]

  me you know after this way except for [TS]

  potentially the boot time and whatever [TS]

  the volume control looks like when you [TS]

  move it up and down that's well I'm not [TS]

  I don't use the vine control the TV who [TS]

  uses TV speakers animals that's who we [TS]

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  better watching you briefly on the [TS]

  periscope try to adjust the picture I [TS]

  have some advice here we go this is how [TS]

  TIF gets you back it's not the butt cam [TS]

  2017 edition it's giving John insight [TS]

  into how you set up the TV just come to [TS]

  our house and do it for me I mean it's a [TS]

  periscope and he's under the public eye [TS]

  and he's just fiddling around with [TS]

  things but in general what you were [TS]

  doing is exactly what people shouldn't [TS]

  do when they adjust the TV which is play [TS]

  with the settings and try to see it try [TS]

  to think does it look right turn this on [TS]

  turn this off what does this mode mean [TS]

  blah blah blah so you're never gonna [TS]

  you're never gonna arrive at anything [TS]

  that way so to first of all the thing [TS]

  that Marco knows and that everyone else [TS]

  should know is when you buy TV no matter [TS]

  where you get it from almost all the [TS]

  time it is configured badly it might [TS]

  still be in showroom demo mode where [TS]

  everything is like super saturated and [TS]

  super bright with all the effects on but [TS]

  even if it's not the sort of standard [TS]

  default modes on most TVs is not quote [TS]

  unquote accurate it's not what what the [TS]

  people who created the content we're [TS]

  expecting you to see because they're [TS]

  sort of creating it and you know [TS]

  mastering it in in a particular color [TS]

  space with the expectation things look a [TS]

  certain way the only way to get the [TS]

  television configured correctly is to [TS]

  use some sort of calibration thing [TS]

  whether it's an app or a blu-ray or [TS]

  whatever and the tricky part is the the [TS]

  place where your configuration thing [TS]

  comes from like the source affects how [TS]

  you're configuring it like if you can [TS]

  get a configuration thing to run on your [TS]

  Apple TV that will and your and your [TS]

  adjustments are per input that will [TS]

  correctly adjust the Apple TV input but [TS]

  then how do you correctly adjust the [TS]

  input that is you know if you use that [TS]

  same setting and apply it to your other [TS]

  inputs or some TVs don't even let you do [TS]

  like how do you apply that to the [TS]

  blu-ray [TS]

  and how do you applied to one of the [TS]

  cables in or whatever that's something [TS]

  you have to sort it out in every TV but [TS]

  he did right you have to get a [TS]

  calibration thing and there's tons of [TS]

  calibration things that are out there [TS]

  they give you grayscale things they tell [TS]

  you what it should look like and then [TS]

  all sorts of color patterns and then you [TS]

  have to basically mess with the menus of [TS]

  your television to get the test patterns [TS]

  to look correct to do that to figure out [TS]

  I don't know what all these words mean I [TS]

  don't understand but what these you know [TS]

  the settings are like auto you know [TS]

  dynamic fresh dank like you know [TS]

  sometimes if you look in the manual [TS]

  they'll translate them to like the [TS]

  actual meaning but most of the time what [TS]

  you want to do is seek out on the [TS]

  Internet [TS]

  one of those forums where people spend a [TS]

  million years adjusting their TVs and [TS]

  people have like basically Settings [TS]

  lists for the televisions say in order [TS]

  to get this particular exact make and [TS]

  model of television to pass a reasonable [TS]

  calibration test here's all the things I [TS]

  had to change it to and sometimes [TS]

  they'll hopefully say here's what these [TS]

  settings actually mean and this sounds [TS]

  like a long video or like I got to go to [TS]

  internet forums and scroll through like [TS]

  web bulletin boards like it's like 2003 [TS]

  and just find setting packs for people [TS]

  and and download them sometimes and it's [TS]

  like here's the thing you only have to [TS]

  do this essentially once and then just [TS]

  to it you know just over every few years [TS]

  right once you get it set up and [TS]

  calibrated according to the calibration [TS]

  app and you and you kind of know what [TS]

  the settings do and you know which ones [TS]

  to how to turn everything off and what [TS]

  the different things mean mostly all you [TS]

  need to do is it just like contrast [TS]

  brightness and a few other things as the [TS]

  screen ages in it and it drifts a little [TS]

  bit and that's really the only way to do [TS]

  it you can't do it by looking at [TS]

  people's faces things that skin look [TS]

  right to you you will never do it that [TS]

  way you can't do it by looking at video [TS]

  and saying does that motion look right [TS]

  to you need to use a calibration app and [TS]

  there's tons of them out there or or you [TS]

  know calibration DVD or calibration [TS]

  blu-ray or whatever the hardest thing to [TS]

  do is cadence which you probably don't [TS]

  care about did you see if you're you [TS]

  didn't even have a blu-ray player do you [TS]

  like to see if you can have the ps4 yeah [TS]

  well do you ever watch it do you ever [TS]

  watch anything that you care is showing [TS]

  24 frames per second kids if you don't [TS]

  care about that you don't need to do it [TS]

  the hardest one to do the only way I've [TS]

  found to do that one is to use a camera [TS]

  and configure to use a shutter that's [TS]

  open for a second and run a pattern that [TS]

  you know does something over the course [TS]

  of a second and you can see if you see [TS]

  even lighting in the one second exposure [TS]

  if you don't see even lighting that [TS]

  you're seeing three to pull there pull [TS]

  down because one frame was on three [TS]

  times the frame was showing two times [TS]

  and the three times when it's brighter [TS]

  the entry times one so you get this sort [TS]

  of checkerboard bright dim bright dim [TS]

  thing that's how you know you're getting [TS]

  the wrong cadence true 24 frames per [TS]

  second cadence everything will be [TS]

  exactly equal brightness because it was [TS]

  24 frames in each one of them as shown [TS]

  you know for the same amount of time [TS]

  that's the hardest to calibrate I don't [TS]

  know how to do that with an app I just [TS]

  know I'd do it with a camera in an app [TS]

  but the other ones just you know get an [TS]

  app and easiest for you you have an [TS]

  Apple TV there are apps on the App Store [TS]

  like thx apps or whatever like go climb [TS]

  on download doesn't really matter which [TS]

  one it is they all kind of have a [TS]

  similar test pattern some of them might [TS]

  be better than others and just spend a [TS]

  day with it and it's important to [TS]

  calibrate it both during the day time at [TS]

  a night time and figure out the balance [TS]

  of brightness especially for televisions [TS]

  I don't know that oh it's not as bright [TS]

  as a LED backlit LCD but I think it's [TS]

  brighter than most plasmas but sometimes [TS]

  you have to make a trade-off between [TS]

  does this look right at night time [TS]

  versus does it look right in day and [TS]

  your television and I believe most [TS]

  televisions have an ambient light sensor [TS]

  they can be like don't worry about it [TS]

  you just calibrate it and I'll use the [TS]

  ambient light sensor to adjust the [TS]

  brightness for you sometimes you want [TS]

  that because it's helpful but other [TS]

  times it'll just screw with your [TS]

  settings so you calibrate it and then [TS]

  night comes and the ambient light sensor [TS]

  screws with all your settings and you [TS]

  can't see anything in the dark scene so [TS]

  if it's up to me I would pick a good [TS]

  medium setting and turn off all the [TS]

  dynamic stuff that this TV is gonna look [TS]

  like exactly like this all the time [TS]

  please do not dynamically adjust [TS]

  anything but anyway it's it's a lot [TS]

  harder than just let me go through the [TS]

  menus and try a few things and I think [TS]

  it's worth while I think it's worth [TS]

  adjusting because if you do if you spend [TS]

  the day adjusting it and you know maybe [TS]

  like three months later or six months [TS]

  later run through the adjustments again [TS]

  just to make sure the thing hasn't [TS]

  drifted and then like save the original [TS]

  setting and like in the middle and when [TS]

  we switch back to the other setting and [TS]

  be like oh god it's just it's terrible [TS]

  it's like it's like suddenly everything [TS]

  was you know you know that it's like a [TS]

  festival in India or something we use [TS]

  colored powders [TS]

  everything something everything is like [TS]

  super oversaturated it's like it doesn't [TS]

  it doesn't look right it doesn't look [TS]

  natural it looks like someone has thrown [TS]

  festive colored powders over everything [TS]

  in your television you don't want that [TS]

  just ask Merlin you know what the [TS]

  powders so did you did you just fiddle [TS]

  with controls and you like act good [TS]

  enough and that you're never gonna [TS]

  revisit it I at least did just finish [TS]

  fiddle with controls and say good enough [TS]

  I don't know if I will ever revisit it [TS]

  or not I probably will cuz we only been [TS]

  we only had like one night with it so [TS]

  far to really play with it so we will [TS]

  probably still be messing with some [TS]

  stuff I will say though that this is [TS]

  probably going to be an area of my life [TS]

  that I choose the kc path add a boy the [TS]

  path of not being very picky just one [TS]

  it's just one day pride in your case one [TS]

  day over the next ten years that you're [TS]

  going on this television just spend the [TS]

  time yeah you said it would also be one [TS]

  day doing bootcamp on Windows to set up [TS]

  the gaming fort if so come over you know [TS]

  take a day off for work that's the other [TS]

  option you can pay someone to calibrate [TS]

  it for you but I think it's a remor you [TS]

  just do yourself with an app but if if [TS]

  the next time I am at your house if you [TS]

  give me some time I will do this to your [TS]

  television because it's a service I [TS]

  provide how busy could you be just come [TS]

  tomorrow at the very least make sure you [TS]

  have the size set correctly can I at [TS]

  least convince you to do that you mean [TS]

  like I like instead of like fake over [TS]

  scanning and then uh exactly like make [TS]

  sure that it's actually showing I think [TS]

  I have it correct I haven't like tested [TS]

  anything like they can verify on the [TS]

  edges but you know how you can tell [TS]

  whether you have it correct calibration [TS]

  now this is like the first thing they're [TS]

  gonna do is like hey can you see all all [TS]

  the pixels of a 1080 in the 4k picture [TS]

  or is it cutting off the stuff around [TS]

  the border because you have fake [TS]

  overscan on alright send me send me the [TS]

  name or a link to an Apple TV app that [TS]

  do you think I should try and I will [TS]

  give it a shot yep but I really can't I [TS]

  don't think I'm gonna spend a day on it [TS]

  that seems like a lot well I I say a day [TS]

  cuz you know whatever you people but it [TS]

  could turn into a day depending on how [TS]

  obsessed you get about it let me guess [TS]

  not terribly obsessed also Marco there's [TS]

  an easy way to fix this problem stop [TS]

  caring well [TS]

  that's the most easy way to the second [TS]

  most easy way and by the way I highly [TS]

  recommend that it's it's wonderful [TS]

  ignorance is list like AC where you [TS]

  can't tell what's going on anyway that's [TS]

  also that's also an easier fix but it [TS]

  also affects other parts of your life [TS]

  take your glasses off that's great but [TS]

  no the the second easiest way to fix [TS]

  this is to tell John that you have three [TS]

  dozen bagels of various varieties that [TS]

  are all on the approved bagel list and [TS]

  all he has to do is come pick them up [TS]

  from your house oh and by the way fix [TS]

  the TV [TS]

  John is free time you can do it yeah [TS]

  that seems reasonable I would do it for [TS]

  three dozen bagels problem solved [TS]

  alright so you happy with it again I've [TS]

  only had like one night to watch it so [TS]

  far but so far yes it is not as dramatic [TS]

  of a change as I would have guessed you [TS]

  know maybe if we don't if we went all [TS]

  the way to 65 it might have been it if [TS]

  you went from a crappy LCD to this it [TS]

  would be you're just used to black [TS]

  levels that are reasonable anyway but I [TS]

  mean I feel although I obviously have [TS]

  many more sense into this than most [TS]

  people but when I went from my previous [TS]

  Panasonic Plasma to my current Panasonic [TS]

  Plasma I was startled by how much better [TS]

  the black levels improved Justin like [TS]

  when you turn it on it's not like a logo [TS]

  like or whatever on a black background [TS]

  and I could tell wow this is you know in [TS]

  my opinion quote unquote dramatically [TS]

  better than my previous plasma but if [TS]

  you had gone from LCD to OLED and you [TS]

  turn on the LCD and it just you know [TS]

  like whatever Samsung and then a black [TS]

  background and this thing it turns it on [TS]

  that says LG and a black background you [TS]

  would be startled by exactly how black [TS]

  it is but going from plasma maybe not as [TS]

  startling to maybe you don't notice much [TS]

  although I have to say your plasma is [TS]

  old enough that it is you know still [TS]

  several generations behind the best [TS]

  plasmas got before like plasmas went [TS]

  away so right because because I got so [TS]

  big I could I couldn't upgrade yeah yeah [TS]

  but but like yeah and also like I've [TS]

  seen very little 4k content on it so far [TS]

  because there just isn't that like right [TS]

  now the only way I had to get 4k in [TS]

  there is the built-in Netflix and Amazon [TS]

  apps the Amazon app I had a very hard [TS]

  time getting it to show me anything in [TS]

  4k the Grand Tour no it showed me Grand [TS]

  Tour in HDR but 1080p for some reason [TS]

  like I couldn't get it to set me up to [TS]

  4k I don't know I don't know why maybe [TS]

  it's the settings I couldn't file it in [TS]

  the settings couldn't find anywhere [TS]

  I did I was able to see real 4k with [TS]

  Netflix and well I watched a little bit [TS]

  house of cards and so that was nice but [TS]

  house of cards is a pretty dreary gray [TS]

  show it's like like there's so many ways [TS]

  yes so III wasn't able to really see [TS]

  like you know what is like a beautiful [TS]

  nature scene like I want like the stuff [TS]

  they show on the demo reels and Best Buy [TS]

  like all the beautiful nature scenes you [TS]

  need Planet Earth just go good Wow [TS]

  I have Planet Earth but I don't know how [TS]

  to get it in 4k yeah the other thing is [TS]

  that you should look go to one of those [TS]

  viewing distance calculators it could be [TS]

  that your viewing distance and your [TS]

  television size is such that you're [TS]

  gonna have difficulty discerning 4k vs [TS]

  1080 at that combination so you're [TS]

  saying I should have gotten the 75 yeah [TS]

  well you have to use one of those [TS]

  calculators to see but I was too proud [TS]

  when I did the tape measure thing to see [TS]

  like here's where I sit on my couch in [TS]

  here so far away my television is yeah I [TS]

  would have to step up to bigger than 55 [TS]

  - to really get the benefit of 4k I mean [TS]

  not that it matters like you don't have [TS]

  a choice anymore essentially you're [TS]

  really had a 4k TV whether you want or [TS]

  not we're just fine but I'm saying is [TS]

  that don't don't get hung up on the 4k [TS]

  too much until you've done that [TS]

  measurement to see can my eye even [TS]

  resolve the difference in dot pitch [TS]

  essentially between 1080 and 4k at this [TS]

  size television of this distance well [TS]

  and isn't it isn't just about like being [TS]

  able to resolve individual pixels you [TS]

  know like you can you can look at the [TS]

  screen of an iPhone 7 and then next to [TS]

  it on iphone 7 plus the 7 plus screen [TS]

  has a much higher dpi and the 7 plus [TS]

  screen looks better and you might not be [TS]

  able to identify like oh that I can see [TS]

  pixels on this one on this one I can't [TS]

  like you can't I can't really see them [TS]

  on either of them but 7 plus is non [TS]

  native res though maybe you're just [TS]

  responding to the blurring yeah maybe [TS]

  who knows probably not but anyway so [TS]

  like and there's also HDR the different [TS]

  contrast ratios so like there's a huge [TS]

  amount of improvement to picture quality [TS]

  here that was not just the resolution [TS]

  yeah the framerate and color range [TS]

  potential framerate and color range [TS]

  differences are what you want although [TS]

  4k content especially like on Netflix is [TS]

  also very heavily compressed so you know [TS]

  you're gonna run out and buy a blu-ray [TS]

  player but if you really wanted to see [TS]

  what this television can do blu-ray is [TS]

  your highest quality the highest quality [TS]

  video that you can bring to your home [TS]

  still comes on a plastic disc which is [TS]

  sad but true but is there 4k blu-ray is [TS]

  that a thing [TS]

  mmm really I didn't know that can the [TS]

  ps4 non-pro do that I have no idea I [TS]

  don't even know this is one of these [TS]

  teeming away from 4k as I realize I have [TS]

  to just rip out my old set up because [TS]

  I'm pretty sure my receiver maybe it has [TS]

  4k passed through on like one of its [TS]

  inputs or whatever I just have to like I [TS]

  have to start over like 40 people in the [TS]

  chat just said no no no no none of the [TS]

  ps4 do this no please don't [TS]

  oh my god no no no so apparently I have [TS]

  to get an Xbox one s x1x [TS]

  but I don't know what that is don't you [TS]

  or you could just get a blu-ray player [TS]

  they're pretty cheap and you can get [TS]

  players or pieces of crap I hate them so [TS]

  much I hate like blue just the the [TS]

  blu-ray spec is the worst thing that has [TS]

  ever happened to movies you know [TS]

  everyone hates it but it still if you [TS]

  want to get like a hundred and something [TS]

  gigabytes of the highest quality video [TS]

  of your favorite movie okay the very [TS]

  least you got to get the blu-ray then [TS]

  rip it on your Mac and then find a way [TS]

  to play it losslessly off of whatever [TS]

  device you put it on which I also still [TS]

  haven't mastered because of the 24 [TS]

  frames per second cadence problem as [TS]

  previously discussed although someone [TS]

  did mention this Plex valve for the ps3 [TS]

  and when I revisited it and I saw Plex [TS]

  was already installed on my ps3 I think [TS]

  I already tried it but Plex changes fast [TS]

  so maybe it got fixed I don't know maybe [TS]

  the thing is like again like this fault [TS]

  when the Apple TV 4k presumably exists I [TS]

  have a feeling that's going to be my [TS]

  answer to this I think I'm just gonna [TS]

  like by 4k stuff on iTunes and call it a [TS]

  day [TS]

  yeah you hope they have it for sale I [TS]

  know I really hope they have and I also [TS]

  I kind of hope that I can like maybe [TS]

  upgrade some things I've already bought [TS]

  like I bought Planet Earth 2 on iTunes [TS]

  and I know that is available on 4k [TS]

  somewhere and you know if I I would hate [TS]

  to have to like rebuy the whole thing at [TS]

  and like a none discounted new price to [TS]

  just get that but I probably would [TS]

  anyway because it's so good that that's [TS]

  on it like - if you really want to show [TS]

  off 4k you need like you know bright [TS]

  nature scenes but [TS]

  I uh or even just I want to see the [TS]

  Apple TV screen savers in 4k I was [TS]

  thinking look amazing [TS]

  I don't think the source video is 4k [TS]

  though it's like I've watched them so [TS]

  great I think this is 1080 like when [TS]

  you're on Ariel the screensaver on your [TS]

  Mac I'm always struck by how on the 5k [TS]

  iMac anyway I'm like ooh that's blurry [TS]

  like this looks much better I might lose [TS]

  my TV is 1080 in my 5k iMac because you [TS]

  know whatever giant resolution it is [TS]

  well that doesn't mean that the source [TS]

  is not 4k that just means that Apple is [TS]

  not publishing more than 1080 worth of [TS]

  you know stream yeah I understand like [TS]

  are they are they gonna quote they're [TS]

  gonna remaster is they gonna go back to [TS]

  the red 8k footage or whatever this [TS]

  stuff was taken from and and remake all [TS]

  those videos also if you happen to see [TS]

  the back of a truck roll by Marco from [TS]

  what I can tell Grand Tours between 20 [TS]

  and 30 gigs for 4k and and there are [TS]

  trucks that haven't but how do I get [TS]

  them onto my TV in a way that actually [TS]

  can play 4k 4k content please don't make [TS]

  it the Grand Tour I know for 4k old man [TS]

  wrinkles no no I agree I agree I'm just [TS]

  trying to think of something that that [TS]

  you would potentially at least slightly [TS]

  enjoy and typically as well shot and [TS]

  pretty yes I understand your point about [TS]

  the old man wrinkles and you're right [TS]

  but I mean generally speaking it's it's [TS]

  it's visually a nice-looking show well [TS]

  anyways to get it on your TV well why [TS]

  not do can you do or you can do 4k over [TS]

  HDMI although usually it's 30 frames per [TS]

  second except in this case that'd be [TS]

  fine I mean I'm pretty sure that there [TS]

  is a new HDMI spec that this TV supports [TS]

  that does 4k 60 I think there you go I [TS]

  spent the money on it instead of after I [TS]

  got approval that I believed I had a [TS]

  narrow window of opportunity well here's [TS]

  the thing but what Marco did is like [TS]

  look if any TV is gonna support all the [TS]

  things make it the most expensive one [TS]

  and it's essentially what you did you [TS]

  didn't get the most most expensive only [TS]

  afforded that weird sound bar crap and [TS]

  everything which I agree is not a good [TS]

  idea but that's that's really all you [TS]

  can do the problem is though like [TS]

  sometimes you look at them [TS]

  most expensive one whose still doesn't [TS]

  have support for the latest whatever [TS]

  that's just about to come out and so [TS]

  you're like okay I can't I can't buy a [TS]

  TV this year I wait till next year but I [TS]

  think you're probably safe yeah because [TS]

  it seems like that the the 4k world has [TS]

  has pretty much reach like the point [TS]

  that it's safe to buy it like we'd use I [TS]

  mean isn't a lot of people give better [TS]

  views of this TV it's like well it's the [TS]

  best picture Pali we've ever seen but it [TS]

  costs a whole jillion dollars so [TS]

  obviously it's not a barrier for you but [TS]

  for other people's like maybe maybe wait [TS]

  like maybe wait one more year or two [TS]

  more years for the same quality [TS]

  television to come down from the middle [TS]

  of the pack or whatever right and the [TS]

  other thing with the Smart TV stuff is [TS]

  over the over the years a lot of that LG [TS]

  Smart TV stuff like I don't know if they [TS]

  weren't using enough RAM or slower [TS]

  processors or whatever but that has [TS]

  gotten faster too and it's like when it [TS]

  first came out well it kind of works but [TS]

  in two years presumably they'll put [TS]

  better chips and their TVs and it will [TS]

  get faster and it has so I think you [TS]

  bought the you know the earliest you [TS]

  could possibly buy and still get all the [TS]

  things and all you had to sacrifice for [TS]

  it was you know a little bit of money [TS]

  and some yelling from your spouse we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by audible with an [TS]

  unmatched selection of audiobooks [TS]

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  more get a free 30-day trial at [TS]

  audible.com slash ATP if you want to [TS]

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  audiobooks virtually every genre and you [TS]

  can listen anytime anywhere phones [TS]

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  you can probably play an audible audio [TS]

  book on it audiobooks are great for [TS]

  flights long road trips or even your [TS]

  commute to work every day because you [TS]

  might you might think you don't have [TS]

  time to read books and that might be [TS]

  true but you'd be surprised how many [TS]

  audiobooks you can hear each year if you [TS]

  start listening every day on your daily [TS]

  commute and on various trips and things [TS]

  you will see it really adds up and [TS]

  audiobooks bring books to life you can [TS]

  take risks and you can try new authors [TS]

  and genres without regret without risk [TS]

  because audible offers they're great [TS]

  listen guarantee if you start an [TS]

  audiobook and you don't like it [TS]

  you can trade it for another one for [TS]

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  looking for it audible get a free 30-day [TS]

  trial today by signing up at audible.com [TS]

  slash ATP that's audible.com slash ATP [TS]

  thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

  show before we leave the TV topic one [TS]

  I'll take one other brief brief run at [TS]

  trying to convince you / you / the [TS]

  audience to invest in a multi-channel [TS]

  audio solution no you think Sara's just [TS]

  fine I know you think you don't need a [TS]

  subwoofer and left her my channel is [TS]

  fine I mean the way I was gonna try to [TS]

  convince you was like to think about how [TS]

  how concerning it is when viewing an LCD [TS]

  screen and non-native res but that is [TS]

  now an outdated analogy because as you [TS]

  were just saying with the 7 plus if you [TS]

  make the pixel small off doesn't matter [TS]

  but there's no equivalent to making the [TS]

  pixel small enough in the world of audio [TS]

  so lots of these shows that you like [TS]

  including probably house of cards have [TS]

  5.1 mix like they have the six channels [TS]

  of audio maybe they have seven I don't [TS]

  know but they have they have [TS]

  multi-channel audio that's what they're [TS]

  putting out and some of them don't have [TS]

  a stereo mix so you have to take that [TS]

  5.1 and down mix it through some voodoo [TS]

  into you know you don't be Pro Logic or [TS]

  something into a stereo mix and that [TS]

  that adds stuff it adds artifacts and [TS]

  weirdnesses that are not there like [TS]

  you're taking someone did what doesn't [TS]

  have a stereo mix I like whenever I've [TS]

  like rip DVDs and stuff there's always a [TS]

  stereo track the things that fall off [TS]

  the back of trucks sometimes on that [TS]

  stereo mix is to give this one example [TS]

  like most of the stuff I watch is legal [TS]

  like almost everything I watch is on the [TS]

  Apple TV and do I when I rip my own [TS]

  blu-rays I don't put a stereo mix on [TS]

  them sometimes they anime thinks nice [TS]

  don't have stereo sometimes they'll be [TS]

  like stereo Japanese in 5.1 English but [TS]

  no stereo English I don't know about [TS]

  iTunes but I'm saying it's like the 500x [TS]

  is available right and a reasonable 5.1 [TS]

  set up with a 5.1 mix going straight to [TS]

  it sounds better than stereo and may if [TS]

  you don't have places [TS]

  speakers I can kind of understand that [TS]

  we don't but I think you do you've got a [TS]

  big room it's great that room let me [TS]

  tell you about your house marker I I [TS]

  think you can find I mean I found places [TS]

  in my totally awful should never have [TS]

  any kind of television a carriage house [TS]

  weird thing it it it makes I didn't [TS]

  think it would be a big deal here I held [TS]

  off doing it forever I have some fairly [TS]

  cheap cruddy 5.1 speakers it sounds so [TS]

  much better to have dedicated left right [TS]

  back you know center channel it's a big [TS]

  difference I would encourage you to if [TS]

  you I mean I know you don't care that [TS]

  much about movies and but but these days [TS]

  TV shows have five phone line mixes it [TS]

  makes a difference five point I mean [TS]

  it's like games of Thrones or something [TS]

  a five point one mix with a subwoofer of [TS]

  a good TV show is just plain better than [TS]

  stereo considerate is now like you [TS]

  you've done nothing to preclude it you [TS]

  didn't buy a TV with a weird sound bar [TS]

  which is like the worst of like let's [TS]

  just forget about multi-channel and just [TS]

  do some weird stuff up front and try to [TS]

  fake it out I think you have the room [TS]

  especially these very tiny speakers like [TS]

  mine are very small like I don't know [TS]

  big they are they're like the size of a [TS]

  big iPhone kind of speak you're like oh [TS]

  those can't possibly sound good they're [TS]

  wired their passive wired you know they [TS]

  don't need to be plugged in anymore [TS]

  they're not Bluetooth or any sort of [TS]

  other weird thing you can get those [TS]

  speakers for a reasonable price and and [TS]

  hide the subwoofer for somewhere in the [TS]

  corner and it sounds awesome consider it [TS]

  you know I don't think that either mark [TS]

  Ori is denying that it's better it's not [TS]

  that we're saying it's not better it's [TS]

  just and I'll now I'll speak for myself [TS]

  I I I would love to have that set up but [TS]

  it's not worth the energy to me to make [TS]

  it happen because to do it right I would [TS]

  have to put like wires under the floor [TS]

  and you know you don't always have to [TS]

  you just have to be a little bit [TS]

  creative like I don't have wires under [TS]

  my floor or through my ceiling right but [TS]

  you can you can find ways to make like [TS]

  the wires are smaller than you think [TS]

  they are and you can be creative with [TS]

  where you route them and I don't think [TS]

  Marco would even have to be that [TS]

  creative and worst case Marco can throw [TS]

  money at this problem and actually get [TS]

  wireless ones because [TS]

  then you know what to worry about it [TS]

  like if you if you want to spend more [TS]

  money than I was willing to spend on it [TS]

  cuz I was I was like I'm not gonna [TS]

  spending a lot of money on a 5.1 system [TS]

  I don't even know if I like this but [TS]

  since we're getting all this stuff I [TS]

  might as well try and I bought like the [TS]

  cheapest one I possibly could it was [TS]

  well rated you know if you don't want it [TS]

  if you'd want to spend a couple hundred [TS]

  bucks and get six speakers and a [TS]

  subwoofer do this and I did that and I [TS]

  was amazed and they're very small and so [TS]

  I'm not planning on replacing them with [TS]

  fancier more expensive ones but Markos [TS]

  excuse was he was tired of hooking up [TS]

  all that stuff moving from apartment [TS]

  apartment he's been in this house for a [TS]

  long time now so that excuse doesn't [TS]

  work doesn't work doesn't work in his [TS]

  room but you know again this would take [TS]

  more than a day I feel awesome so why [TS]

  are routes where to put them in places [TS]

  where you wouldn't notice them and hops [TS]

  wouldn't eat them and it would be just [TS]

  fine doesn't eat speakers my dog eats [TS]

  everything so now I'm mapping my dog on [TS]

  to all dogs [TS]

  you can't put wires and a house dog [TS]

  leave them hops don't lick them yeah [TS]

  house will look at them and back away [TS]

  slowly because he's scared of them so [TS]

  yeah I mean and in case he's right I [TS]

  never said that surround is not good or [TS]

  better like surround I had surround for [TS]

  a long time granite this was a long time [TS]

  ago [TS]

  you know I stop hooking up the surround [TS]

  speakers at least 10 years ago and the [TS]

  the speaker set that they were part of I [TS]

  don't even own anymore so it died long [TS]

  ago [TS]

  so I know it's I know it's good but [TS]

  again I'm gonna have to pull a KC here [TS]

  and say like I just don't care like [TS]

  because most of the benefit is for [TS]

  movies but TV shows are in 5.1 now so [TS]

  I'm saying no I know but like what I [TS]

  care about is the sound should sound [TS]

  good and clear and it should be usable [TS]

  to make to fill the room with music when [TS]

  I want music in the room and a standard [TS]

  stereo set works great for that I should [TS]

  also point out I don't have a receiver [TS]

  I Drive the speaker's currently with a [TS]

  stereo with a little tiny stereo speaker [TS]

  amp that is about the [TS]

  size of like four decks of cards stacked [TS]

  like it's a really small speaker ramp [TS]

  one of these little like class D things [TS]

  and it's great and it's it has a remote [TS]

  support so the Apple TV controls the [TS]

  volume on it like there it's remote [TS]

  Clare on the IR thing like it's a great [TS]

  simple setup the TV stand that we have [TS]

  is a non-negotiable piece of furniture [TS]

  with the Historical Society discussions [TS]

  are ongoing with the Historical [TS]

  Commission receiver there is no receiver [TS]

  that exists that I have been able to [TS]

  find that will fit in this stand what I [TS]

  make a receiver the same size and shape [TS]

  as say an old Bell Telephone even the [TS]

  low end receivers have these giant cases [TS]

  now because they use the same case [TS]

  design whether you have like two or [TS]

  seven channels they just put like [TS]

  different numbers of cards in them so I [TS]

  think the solution here that we've [TS]

  learned is I just need to install a [TS]

  surround system and a receiver in the [TS]

  beach house and then have Tiff's watch a [TS]

  movie on it late at night and then [TS]

  she'll send you a text it says okay we [TS]

  can get a receiver maybe yeah well but [TS]

  but yeah so yeah I am totally fine with [TS]

  our basic stereo setup it's a really [TS]

  good stereo setup because the speakers [TS]

  are my one of my favorites the paradigm [TS]

  Adams [TS]

  I love the paradigm atom speakers [TS]

  because they're like 200 bucks each so [TS]

  it's like about 400 bucks a pair and [TS]

  they are the best bookshelf speakers I [TS]

  have ever heard and I've heard many that [TS]

  it costs way more than that and they [TS]

  don't sound better like the the Adams [TS]

  embarrass everything else I've ever [TS]

  tried like they were just so damn good [TS]

  you can use them as your left and right [TS]

  channel and then only by the backs and [TS]

  the center and it's up over here's the [TS]

  problem now the new TV is just bigger [TS]

  enough that the Adams no longer fit on [TS]

  the stand next to us so I have to either [TS]

  get those you know a little pole speaker [TS]

  stands for them which I don't love that [TS]

  at that option because that seemed like [TS]

  it would be you know to me to get [TS]

  something top-heavy in a house that [TS]

  often has children running around and it [TS]

  does not seem like a good idea so I [TS]

  don't love that option also those stands [TS]

  are really expensive like and you can [TS]

  get [TS]

  get new speakers for not not that much [TS]

  more money than those stands [TS]

  so I'm looking into for standing options [TS]

  now but it's very early in the search [TS]

  just screw some tiny little wings on to [TS]

  the edge but yeah right well if I can [TS]

  somehow like drag them behind a truck [TS]

  for a while first and like spray-paint [TS]

  them in weird ways it might distressed [TS]

  yeah yeah distress it in like the most [TS]

  hipster way possible and then it'll look [TS]

  right [TS]

  learned about that on the upcoming [TS]

  directives just for you awesome but yeah [TS]

  so I'm now looking into like floor [TS]

  speakers but I'm probably just gonna get [TS]

  more paradigm you know paradigm makes [TS]

  floor speakers too and they're similarly [TS]

  from what all the reviews say they are [TS]

  amazing values an amazing sound quality [TS]

  foot for what you're paying so so I take [TS]

  it you didn't like measure the top [TS]

  surface of your table and the width of [TS]

  the television you didn't do this math [TS]

  beforehand so you got it you put took it [TS]

  out of the box you put it on there okay [TS]

  let me put the speakers back on you're [TS]

  like oh they don't fit pretty much I I [TS]

  did the math a year ago like with the [TS]

  TVs that were out of your eye when I [TS]

  first started when I was research I did [TS]

  it then and I knew then that I could get [TS]

  a 55 inch TV and that it would intrude [TS]

  roughly halfway into my speaker than [TS]

  either side so I knew this was never see [TS]

  I've seen this in a lot of people's [TS]

  houses to possible solutions I've seen [TS]

  in real life one put the speaker [TS]

  slightly behind the television to put [TS]

  the speakers in front of the television [TS]

  I seen both those solutions both of them [TS]

  boggle my mind those are both terrible [TS]

  solutions everything like this is fine [TS]

  like and I can't decide which is worse [TS]

  blocking the television or having [TS]

  speakers firing directly into the back [TS]

  that's I don't have a hard time figuring [TS]

  that out too I think I mean either way [TS]

  you're making something stuck terribly [TS]

  so yeah I don't know these bookshelf [TS]

  speakers that you love are they super [TS]

  expensive let me look at them no the 200 [TS]

  bucks each so a pair of four bookshelf [TS]

  speakers made by a company that had that [TS]

  is like respected in the world of [TS]

  speakers 400 bucks for a pair is not [TS]

  incredibly expensive my whole set of [TS]

  speakers was like four hundred dollars [TS]

  it's six speakers for that price [TS]

  speakers our speakers are kind of like [TS]

  watches unfortunately we're like you [TS]

  think if you're not like a watch person [TS]

  you don't really know how expensive [TS]

  watches are and speakers or licensed [TS]

  because how much could they cost like [TS]

  what just filled with diamonds I don't [TS]

  yeah and those you're right those are [TS]

  cheeping the grand scheme of things but [TS]

  I was thinking bookshelf speakers and [TS]

  Marco likes them maybe they're you know [TS]

  50 bucks each nope nope sorry [TS]

  but they're come on first four good [TS]

  speakers that is not ridiculous it's not [TS]

  you're right it's not it's not like [TS]

  they're $900 each but like when I hear [TS]

  bookshelf speakers I start thinking like [TS]

  oh this is for people who don't want to [TS]

  spend big money on fancy speakers so no [TS]

  because I and I have I've I've had two [TS]

  pairs over the years the second pair of [TS]

  them is on my desk these are like my [TS]

  computer speakers because computer [TS]

  speakers are the biggest ripoff in the [TS]

  world they are the worst like my entire [TS]

  time using a computer ever since I have [TS]

  had a sound card I have used regular [TS]

  speakers instead of computer figures [TS]

  every time I've tried computer speakers [TS]

  I have been dramatically disappointed by [TS]

  how crappy they sound compared to how [TS]

  much they cost [TS]

  regular even cheap regular speakers like [TS]

  the firt when I first started doing this [TS]

  I just had like it was like a little [TS]

  pioneer integrated stereo thing that I [TS]

  just had like in my room like like you [TS]

  know with like the two speakers and the [TS]

  big unit in the middle that has like the [TS]

  cassette deck and the CD player [TS]

  all-in-one and the whole thing was [TS]

  probably like 200 bucks I just used [TS]

  those speakers as my computer speakers [TS]

  and that sounded a million times better [TS]

  than it has I've ever heard going [TS]

  through the big receiver ething yeah the [TS]

  big yeah and the ones my desk now I have [TS]

  a second one of those tiny little like [TS]

  Class D desktop amplifiers and that [TS]

  amplifies them just fine like there are [TS]

  better ways to amplify speakers but [TS]

  they're all much larger and so you know [TS]

  but you can you can do it [TS]

  i-i've tried powered monitors and [TS]

  powered monitors sound okay but these [TS]

  paradigm atoms again they just kick [TS]

  their butts like it's not even close [TS]

  they think you sound a million times [TS]

  better and like a pair of powered [TS]

  desktop speakers is not that much [TS]

  cheaper than then these paradigms like [TS]

  you're getting into the 400 our [TS]

  territory pretty fast with those and [TS]

  they really don't sound good [TS]

  I have never I even good one [TS]

  like like from brands like like clips [TS]

  and KEF and and bows and B and O like [TS]

  you know brands that like have a lot of [TS]

  fans and I know I know I shouldn't put [TS]

  Bozeman list I'm sorry but it has a lot [TS]

  of fans like I've tried a lot of these [TS]

  at some in some cases I've bought and [TS]

  returned them cuz they were so bad like [TS]

  for whatever reason there there seems to [TS]

  be very little correlation between how [TS]

  much you pay for a set of speakers and [TS]

  how good they sound and you know [TS]

  everyone has like their one thing that [TS]

  oh I bought this one pair of these like [TS]

  60 years ago they sound great and and [TS]

  that's like once you find that it's [TS]

  really hard like to try anything else [TS]

  because you know you try something else [TS]

  and you get and it's and it's on the you [TS]

  know worst end of the spectrum I get the [TS]

  feeling you can you know anybody can [TS]

  slap together some drivers into a box of [TS]

  particle board and say they're a speaker [TS]

  manufacturer and it shows I've got I've [TS]

  been surprised by the speaker system i [TS]

  got some logitech speaker you know [TS]

  typical desktop speaker computer [TS]

  speakers for my playstation 4 and i've [TS]

  gone through a series of quote-unquote [TS]

  computer speakers on my mac and they all [TS]

  sound terrible including the ones that [TS]

  i'm currently using but like I don't I [TS]

  don't use them for anything they're fine [TS]

  like it you know they're they were cheap [TS]

  and they're okay [TS]

  but for the ps4 again I'm playing games [TS]

  there which is mostly like gunfire and [TS]

  explosions I was surprised that how good [TS]

  the two point one set up like you know [TS]

  two stereo speakers and a comically [TS]

  large subwoofer to get that all those [TS]

  explosions to sound good [TS]

  makes a big difference when you know for [TS]

  a ps4 that you're not playing on a TV [TS]

  you have a gaming monitor you know 4k [TS]

  gaming monitor 2.1 logitech speaker [TS]

  system and a ps4 so much more impressive [TS]

  than just a ps4 hooked up to someone's [TS]

  car DLC DTV playing through the TV [TS]

  speakers I don't like an wholeheartedly [TS]

  recommend the product because it's kind [TS]

  of expensive and the power button flakes [TS]

  out but I did buy a second when I got my [TS]

  ps4 Pro and I shifted by old ps4 up to [TS]

  my son's room I got a second one of the [TS]

  exact same speaker size even knowing [TS]

  that the power button is going to [TS]

  eventually flake out you just have to [TS]

  wait at the right way and then it's [TS]

  but that is saying something that like [TS]

  if you're willing to like rebuy the same [TS]

  thing a second time that that that does [TS]

  say a lot yeah and and again this is [TS]

  after years and years of terrible [TS]

  computer speakers often by Logitech [TS]

  often by the same exact company and I [TS]

  you know I realize how much I like them [TS]

  and I went to get speakers I'm like oh [TS]

  no what if they don't make these anymore [TS]

  that's always the problem with computer [TS]

  speakers like if you find a set that you [TS]

  like and they break you they don't make [TS]

  them anymore so but they do still make [TS]

  them and I bought a second one and you [TS]

  know one mind eventually break I will [TS]

  scavenge the the new ones from my son's [TS]

  room and use them you know it's awesome [TS]

  about buying regular speakers first of [TS]

  all they're for sale for more than like [TS]

  a year and then second of all they last [TS]

  forever they really you know you can get [TS]

  you can get speakers that last 50 years [TS]

  like you know eventually the cones often [TS]

  dry out and have problems but like they [TS]

  last a long time because they're just [TS]

  passive devices with that they don't [TS]

  they don't at least if they're usually [TS]

  if they're really good there's no [TS]

  electronics in them you know they're you [TS]

  know there's a there's a there are [TS]

  circuits inside of them there's like the [TS]

  crossovers and stuff but there's not [TS]

  much there and they just last and this [TS]

  it's it's like the Mac Pro thing like [TS]

  you know like my iMac is having all [TS]

  these problems now I'm gonna have to [TS]

  like upgrade the entire computer if I [TS]

  want an upgrade but like you got to do [TS]

  some pair of speakers and if the amp [TS]

  flakes out you can just replace the amp [TS]

  if you want like bigger speakers but you [TS]

  already have an awesome amp you can [TS]

  replace the speaker it's like having [TS]

  components is turns out really nice [TS]

  which like all of our parents discovered [TS]

  40 years ago yeah speaking of my dad who [TS]

  is a huge stereo file and you know this [TS]

  because he believes in vinyl anyway [TS]

  he he has a set of Dahlquist speakers [TS]

  that I he tells me were in his dorm room [TS]

  when obviously he was effectively a kid [TS]

  now I'm sure the cones have been [TS]

  replaced on these you know and [TS]

  presumably whatever minimal electronics [TS]

  are in there have been replaced from [TS]

  time to time but to your point Marco I [TS]

  mean these are 40 ish year old speakers [TS]

  that he is still using to this day not [TS]

  as not as his primary speakers on his [TS]

  nice stereo but as as kind of as the [TS]

  surround sound system in his accessory [TS]

  setup if you will his his second setup [TS]

  yeah this stuff lasts forever nothing I [TS]

  find about speakers as I was there very [TS]

  often ugly like that I wouldn't want [TS]

  them sitting next to my computer for TV [TS]

  usually you can hide them but some of [TS]

  them especially the the fancier they get [TS]

  like even the boring ones they're just [TS]

  too just plain ugly I don't I don't know [TS]

  why speakers need to look like anything [TS]

  except for like the world's most [TS]

  understated understated rectangular [TS]

  solid like why do they need to be weird [TS]

  shaped or have things poking out of them [TS]

  or be shiny or draw any attention to [TS]

  themselves at all so and even the ones [TS]

  that are supposed to look like boring [TS]

  little cubes always have some little [TS]

  flourish or chamfer or other thing to [TS]

  make the boxes look weird and I wish [TS]

  they didn't do that well there's another [TS]

  reason why I love my paradigm atoms [TS]

  because they come with you know they [TS]

  like the black cloth grills that you can [TS]

  just stick on there and then it just [TS]

  looks like a boring speaker like it's a [TS]

  black cloth rectangle sticking on the [TS]

  front of a wooden rectangular solid like [TS]

  that's it it's very simple it comes in [TS]

  like four different colors like it is [TS]

  again it's possible to do great speakers [TS]

  it's got the wood grain if I'm looking [TS]

  at the right one here I can't cuz I [TS]

  wouldn't I would not put that next to my [TS]

  computer I have it next my computer it [TS]

  looks great and you can also get it [TS]

  without you can get it in different [TS]

  colors different finishes [TS]

  yeah they look nice with them without [TS]

  the speaker converse in the front very [TS]

  simple that would be fine but and they [TS]

  are just normal rectangular solids but [TS]

  the wood grain I don't like that's part [TS]

  of the reason my current what do they [TS]

  use I don't know what the hell they are [TS]

  they're probably like creative yeah they [TS]

  are Korea this is terrible creative [TS]

  speakers I have hooked up to my computer [TS]

  they look nice no sounds right but they [TS]

  look okay I will say one of the most [TS]

  attractive speaker things I've ever seen [TS]

  was computer speakers it was what what [TS]

  was John you would know like the those [TS]

  clear plastic carbon-carbon sticks with [TS]

  the big like lamp thing as the [TS]

  subwoofers sound sex with the big [TS]

  jellyfish subwoofer yeah yeah I like the [TS]

  subwoofer yeah that looked cool like the [TS]

  subwoofer did look like a jellyfish and [TS]

  it was really neat and clear or whatever [TS]

  but the sound sticks [TS]

  and like I said like too many holes well [TS]

  I still don't see I'm not even sure I've [TS]

  ever even heard those so I have no idea [TS]

  how they sound but I honestly think like [TS]

  that should go down in history of [TS]

  computer industrial design like that was [TS]

  so it's such a great design [TS]

  I like the cube speakers better in terms [TS]

  of visuals like you remember the g4 cube [TS]

  came with like these two little round [TS]

  balls they were just a single single [TS]

  little cone and the same kind of the [TS]

  visual language of clear but yeah and [TS]

  you can see the electronics I thought oh [TS]

  I think I mean yeah they nicely match a [TS]

  thing to sound sick so we just seemed [TS]

  seems so they look like giant octopus [TS]

  tentacles on it I know people I think I [TS]

  think is Dan Morin I think some people [TS]

  we both know got those back in the day [TS]

  and still use them as laughing to your [TS]

  point about component stuff it's like oh [TS]

  you know what other stuff do you have [TS]

  from the era of the g4 cube that you're [TS]

  still using but if they're just plain [TS]

  old speakers you can just keep using [TS]

  them because their speakers and they [TS]

  work with every Mac that you buy and [TS]

  everything works out it something like [TS]

  so many so many of like and even you [TS]

  know getting back to receivers and stuff [TS]

  so many of the receivers these days like [TS]

  the receiver is integrating certain HDMI [TS]

  standards that go out of date quickly [TS]

  certain like you know maybe it has like [TS]

  network streaming standards maybe it has [TS]

  Bluetooth or airplay or integrates with [TS]

  like Pandora I mean even even my my new [TS]

  TV now has dedicated hardware buttons in [TS]

  the remote for and ones on video and [TS]

  Netflix and that's where we're not gonna [TS]

  age that well in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things if TV still last 10 years and you [TS]

  know it's it's nice to keep things you [TS]

  know it you give up on some of the cool [TS]

  integration of like having things all in [TS]

  one that this one this one box does all [TS]

  these different things and has [TS]

  integrated you know Bluetooth Wi-Fi all [TS]

  this stuff you give up on some of that [TS]

  if you go the separate component route [TS]

  there's usually still the way to achieve [TS]

  it use many like multiple parts but I [TS]

  feel like long term you're setting [TS]

  yourself up for a better outcome and [TS]

  this is again why I really want to wait [TS]

  for the Mac Perot tower rather than [TS]

  buying the iMac Pro this this winter [TS]

  because I like having separate [TS]

  components because most of the time in [TS]

  my life I have done things that way and [TS]

  the few times I had [TS]

  I usually come to regret it but you [TS]

  won't you buy that like from so the [TS]

  sound sticks are still available by the [TS]

  way they're still for sale this sounds [TS]

  six finally up to three sound sticks [TS]

  three by Harman Kardon really 170 bucks [TS]

  you can order them right now that's [TS]

  actually not that expensive for what [TS]

  that is yeah I mean I think they look [TS]

  cool I've never heard them so I can't [TS]

  vouch for how good they sound compared [TS]

  to anything I mean you can look at I [TS]

  mean you can see the components like [TS]

  well there's that size driver for the [TS]

  subwoofer and there's these little tiny [TS]

  drivers for the left and right speakers [TS]

  and it is what it is the other thing is [TS]

  I have a feelin this is probably a [TS]

  design that looks better in pictures [TS]

  than it does like in real life covered [TS]

  in dust and with a thing with the [TS]

  plastic faded and cracked and scratch [TS]

  the plastic holds up pretty well but I [TS]

  just don't like how it even looks in [TS]

  pictures like I like the subwoofer I [TS]

  think that's a cute design but the sound [TS]

  sticks they look like octopus tentacles [TS]

  and I don't like the little cheerio [TS]

  life's a life preserver bass thingies [TS]

  don't like it yeah I guess those little [TS]

  bases aren't that great either yeah you [TS]

  know you're ruining this for me this is [TS]

  what do I do if I can just get the [TS]

  subwoofer and keep on your destiny [TS]

  curiosity but filled with M&Ms pour it [TS]

  down the little you know the other funny [TS]

  part two is like you put subwoofers [TS]

  usually out of sight but the floor like [TS]

  you're not supposed to have is anywhere [TS]

  where it's visible but anything about [TS]

  some horses you can put them anywhere [TS]

  who's to say you know you put them out [TS]

  of cycles you know these big black you [TS]

  know cubes that you just want to get rid [TS]

  of but this one is so nice put it on [TS]

  your desk and you know because humans [TS]

  cannot localize low frequency sound as [TS]

  well as high frequency sound does matter [TS]

  where you put it I will say on that [TS]

  though I greatly prefer just big [TS]

  speakers that have their own woofers [TS]

  that can produce the low frequencies [TS]

  well enough to the sound of little [TS]

  satellites and then one sub woofer [TS]

  somewhere in the room like I've heard [TS]

  this frame before and I also I think [TS]

  your opinion this is based on some very [TS]

  terrible 5.1 setups early on I don't [TS]

  know my opinion this is based on liking [TS]

  music that's what it is really like if I [TS]

  totally agree with you that if what [TS]

  you're optimizing for is movies and TV [TS]

  sound then having a subwoofer is cooler [TS]

  like it sounds cooler that way like you [TS]

  get more like the big booms from [TS]

  explosions and stuff like that but I [TS]

  don't like the way music sounds through [TS]

  that kind of setup I think it sounds [TS]

  weird and unnatural and not how that was [TS]

  in 10 [TS]

  I would rather have speakers that are [TS]

  pretty good at TV and movies and and [TS]

  also really great at music then the [TS]

  opposite we gotta get you yeah I mean [TS]

  you can choose your left and rights to [TS]

  be standalone left or right channels [TS]

  that can reduce all the frequencies I [TS]

  mean your receiver usually controls like [TS]

  you can control like the crossover like [TS]

  what you know you could shift the cutoff [TS]

  of which frequencies go to the subwoofer [TS]

  for mixes that don't separately address [TS]

  it but if you've got left and right [TS]

  channel speakers that can handle all the [TS]

  frequencies you don't have to send [TS]

  anything does that whatever in the case [TS]

  where you're just playing music although [TS]

  multi-channel music is a thing over [TS]

  Jason Snell's house I heard was a [TS]

  crowded house 5.1 mix it's not [TS]

  everybody's thing but it is a thing [TS]

  thanks folks for three sponsors this [TS]

  week betterment audible and Squarespace [TS]

  and we will see you next week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  johnny research [TS]

  BC would [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  i SS see you [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  we have a multi-channel vinyl 5.1 well [TS]

  they don't even have stereo you just get [TS]

  yours and you play them all at the same [TS]

  time like it was The Flaming Lips did a [TS]

  thing where you buy wasn't it you buy [TS]

  two vinyl albums and you play them both [TS]

  at the same time anyway let me like what [TS]

  I like [TS]

  mm-hmm let people enjoy things John I'm [TS]

  telling you you might enjoy a thing [TS]

  where you get to play two records at the [TS]

  same time double the fun [TS]

  right it's like Doublemint gum yeah is [TS]

  that part of the challenge is that it's [TS]

  a you know you like the ceremony now you [TS]

  have a physical challenge where you have [TS]

  to drop the needle hit the drop the [TS]

  needle on the beginning track and [TS]

  exactly the same spot exactly the right [TS]

  time because you don't want the music to [TS]

  be out of sync was it uh waves arica was [TS]

  a double dare that had physical [TS]

  challenges they actually phrased it as a [TS]

  physical challenge that was that was [TS]

  double dare I was gonna make that [TS]

  reference but I didn't bother but there [TS]

  you go you got it you proud of me John I [TS]

  am all I want is for you to be proud of [TS]

  me daddy did you read it story by the [TS]

  way uh the world out there and and there [TS]

  was the big like you know inside story [TS]

  of double dare I think there was a [TS]

  separate story about like the video [TS]

  phone that you get as a prize and double [TS]

  their I know exactly the video phone [TS]

  you're thinking of I don't recall having [TS]

  seen the story about that but I did read [TS]

  and freaking loved the oral history of [TS]

  double dare which was which was actually [TS]

  written which is a little weird I mean I [TS]

  guess was it was um it was a real [TS]

  mystery do you exactly but nevertheless [TS]

  it was I think there might have been an [TS]

  Associated like brief podcast which I [TS]

  never bothered listening to me that's [TS]

  what it was it doesn't matter if you are [TS]

  a child or if you were a child of the [TS]

  80s and watch Doubleday or on [TS]

  Nickelodeon this is absolutely worth [TS]

  your time it was a fantastic read and [TS]

  now you have to find that link for the [TS]

  show notes I already have it this is my [TS]

  other job other than being chief [TS]

  summarizer in chief I love double dare [TS]

  the old air was the best and that's the [TS]

  thing like I've actually said to people [TS]

  I don't think I've ever said it on the [TS]

  show but I've said to people in in real [TS]

  life because apparently this isn't real [TS]

  but anyway do you remember [TS]

  that when you were a kid the grand prize [TS]

  from double-dare was as already [TS]

  mentioned a video telephone where you [TS]

  would get two of them I believe and he [TS]

  could put one in one person's house and [TS]

  one in the other person's house and you [TS]

  would get like a postage stamp and [TS]

  that's not much of an exaggeration a [TS]

  postage stamp-sized image that had a [TS]

  frame rate of like one new image every [TS]

  five to ten seconds in that blew my mind [TS]

  when I was ten or whatever and now in my [TS]

  pocket I can have an HD call with anyone [TS]

  on the planet anywhere I am I mean the [TS]

  future is amazing you know what else is [TS]

  amazing about the Future speaking of net [TS]

  neutrality that neutrality is pretty [TS]

  mean isn't so easy for it I think it [TS]

  would be amazing if we maintain it I [TS]

  think I'm not sure the future is gonna [TS]

  be so amazing in that department so true [TS]

  so what's going on with this why are we [TS]

  why do we care about that today as we [TS]

  record on Wednesday the 12th I go [TS]

  through a net neutrality all over again [TS]

  I think people who don't know what it is [TS]

  or what we're talking about there is a [TS]

  video it's a video from vihart [TS]

  explaining the neutrality in her in [TS]

  their unique way [TS]

  it's actually an updated version of an [TS]

  older video which goes gets us more [TS]

  towards Bart we're talking about this [TS]

  again where she just took her old video [TS]

  and then bookended it by a preface and [TS]

  then the things that have changed this [TS]

  is a a battle that we thought we had if [TS]

  not one of these sort of got things [TS]

  moving in the right direction but for a [TS]

  variety of depressing reasons things are [TS]

  moving back in the wrong direction in [TS]

  these parts I'm seemingly all fronts and [TS]

  that rally is no exception so you get [TS]

  someone who used to be obviously a [TS]

  lawyer for a Verizon or whatever you get [TS]

  some industry person in to come in and [TS]

  do something that most people the United [TS]

  States don't want which is rollback net [TS]

  neutrality to make it so that big [TS]

  corporations can charge different [TS]

  amounts of money for different customers [TS]

  of the internet instead of just being a [TS]

  common carrier blah blah blah watch the [TS]

  video to have explained the the annoying [TS]

  thing about this is like you get [TS]

  fatigued like how much do I have to here [TS]

  I didn't care about net neutrality like [TS]

  didn't we go through this all where we [TS]

  all got all up in a tizzy and everyone [TS]

  write your congressperson and that seems [TS]

  like we're doing that all the time and [TS]

  how many things can I possibly care [TS]

  about and I don't you know I've heard [TS]

  about net neutrality too much I don't [TS]

  even care anymore just don't bother me [TS]

  or if you do want to do something about [TS]

  you're like well what do I do I did a [TS]

  bunch of stuff last time do I do that [TS]

  same stuff again arts Technica has a [TS]

  good article here entitled how to write [TS]

  a meaningful FCC comment supporting net [TS]

  neutrality now the depressed person in [TS]

  me who sees everything falling apart in [TS]

  this country these days thanks it [TS]

  doesn't matter how meaningful your [TS]

  comment of the FCC is because the stupid [TS]

  Verizon lawyer who's running a thing is [TS]

  going to ignore it and do whatever the [TS]

  hell big corporations want because he [TS]

  doesn't care what people want he doesn't [TS]

  care what's good for a long term [TS]

  anything all he cares about is screwing [TS]

  everything up and that's exactly why he [TS]

  was going to do his position anyway but [TS]

  if you are not in that type of dark mood [TS]

  at the moment that you read this article [TS]

  this will help you do the best that you [TS]

  can possibly do instead of just clicking [TS]

  a bunch of buttons and filling out this [TS]

  thing or how can you write a meaningful [TS]

  comment that has a chance of influencing [TS]

  things and who knows it kind of sort of [TS]

  work last time before everything started [TS]

  moving backwards again and it might work [TS]

  this time so to two links in the show [TS]

  notes one watch my hearts video for it's [TS]

  not the best explanation net neutrality [TS]

  because it's a many-faceted and she [TS]

  particularly you know a lot of times [TS]

  they pick an analogy like it's kind of [TS]

  like if this happened and you know in [TS]

  some ways it's better just straight-up [TS]

  explain it without analogy but the [TS]

  analogy huge uses is reasonably [TS]

  representative even if it does gloss [TS]

  over a lot of things and there are other [TS]

  aspects there but anyway watch that to [TS]

  have explained and it's fun and [TS]

  interesting and if you already know what [TS]

  it is but you feel fatigued by the idea [TS]

  of trying to battle against this again [TS]

  give the how to write a meaningful [TS]

  comment thing a read to see if you can [TS]

  do more than just check a box or put [TS]

  your name on a list or whatever but [TS]

  actually pour out a little bit of your [TS]

  heart and your angst and even your anger [TS]

  in the most constructive way possible [TS]

  and you know do what you can do to fight [TS]

  the same fight that we continue to be [TS]

  fighting over and over and over and over [TS]

  and over again there's also a great [TS]

  video it's only about three and a half [TS]

  minutes from CGP grey that was from the [TS]

  last [TS]

  we were all at this exact same rodeo [TS]

  this one's from 2014 so maybe it wasn't [TS]

  the last time but you get my point [TS]

  that is also very good I've seen this by [TS]

  heart video or at least the original [TS]

  iteration thereof probably also from [TS]

  2014 which it is excellent as well yeah [TS]

  this it's it's important I think and [TS]

  well I was gonna say I think that anyone [TS]

  who really has any inkling as to what's [TS]

  going on that isn't paid by one of these [TS]

  big corporations will say net neutrality [TS]

  is the only way to go but you know then [TS]

  we elected who elected so obviously [TS]

  people think differently so anyway if [TS]

  you care about things like this podcast [TS]

  and you want to get it reasonably [TS]

  quickly and not have people get in the [TS]

  way of it maybe talk to your [TS]

  representatives about net neutrality all [TS]

  right on that by the way a lot of the [TS]

  examples they give you of like here's [TS]

  what could happen if we didn't have net [TS]

  neutrality the the difficulty is if you [TS]

  wanted to be like if you wanted to [TS]

  actually extrapolate like you get to put [TS]

  money on it like what would actually [TS]

  happen if robach neutrality it's such a [TS]

  sort of systemic boil the Frog kind of [TS]

  thing that we're already halfway through [TS]

  - that is difficult to convince people [TS]

  exactly how bad it'll be like that like [TS]

  the things that we describe are like oh [TS]

  your podcasts will download slowly right [TS]

  yeah that could happen but in general [TS]

  the powers that be that the powers that [TS]

  are lobbying behind this that want this [TS]

  you know they want to you know they want [TS]

  the net not to be neutral they're not [TS]

  that dumb they would do it in the same [TS]

  way they've done everything else like [TS]

  how do we all of a sudden wake up and [TS]

  find ourselves with only one ISP choice [TS]

  and like half the country right they did [TS]

  that slowly and insidiously by merging [TS]

  and lobbying to allow larger and larger [TS]

  companies to merge together and it's [TS]

  kind of like a thing like what do I care [TS]

  if Time Warner is purchased by whatever [TS]

  or this cable company buys out I don't [TS]

  care whatever I just want my TV like [TS]

  people don't care at that level and [TS]

  slowly these giant giant companies are [TS]

  doing things behind the scenes that is [TS]

  making people's lives like that is [TS]

  closing the door and things that can [TS]

  make people's lives materially better [TS]

  you could have faster internet access [TS]

  for less money they're like they're [TS]

  essentially taking away something that [TS]

  you've never had the Beck Progress [TS]

  essentially like and you don't know how [TS]

  cheap broadband is in the rest of the [TS]

  world and how other people have choices [TS]

  if you have a common carrier that people [TS]

  can actually compete based on price and [TS]

  features like if you've never [TS]

  experienced that it's like it's a lack [TS]

  of something like I've never known it [TS]

  could be this way therefore the lack of [TS]

  it doesn't make me feel like I'm losing [TS]

  anything but you are right that's how [TS]

  they do it and so if they made the net [TS]

  non neutral and cut all these deals and [TS]

  extorted money from as they've already [TS]

  done from Netflix to get their bits to [TS]

  carry over the wires and and startups [TS]

  that you've never heard of and never [TS]

  will hear of are not allowed to enter [TS]

  it's the big like you will not notice [TS]

  that most people will not notice the [TS]

  lack of things that you could have had [TS]

  but that is really the worst-affected [TS]

  this stuff stuff that that people that [TS]

  you will never get because competition [TS]

  has been eliminated and you know people [TS]

  in the middle are extracting value from [TS]

  everybody else and it's like you may [TS]

  have like a mid-level malaise or like Oh [TS]

  Comcast is all I can get and I hate [TS]

  Comcast but it's like oh you know I [TS]

  airlines you know I don't have a similar [TS]

  problem of monopoly and consolidation [TS]

  but anyway it's it's usually not as [TS]

  comically evil as like I was watching my [TS]

  show and they turned it off and they're [TS]

  not gonna do that right they're going to [TS]

  do it in a much more insidious way and [TS]

  they're gonna end up you know finding a [TS]

  way to continue to charge you more for [TS]

  worse service and make you feel [TS]

  powerless against it and you were like [TS]

  had it how did we even get here and like [TS]

  net neutrality is like the last bash [TS]

  literally the last one because they've [TS]

  already got everything else that I've [TS]

  subscribed there's like if we could just [TS]

  get that one last little bit and be able [TS]

  to be the gatekeeper for all Internet [TS]

  content for the last mile for everybody [TS]

  and we've already chased that all [TS]

  competition and consolidated our power [TS]

  structure we just need this last little [TS]

  bit that's why I'd like everyone is [TS]

  fighting for this to them now because [TS]

  it's not as like we're fighting for some [TS]

  sort of YouTube utopia we're just trying [TS]

  to hold on to the last shred of what we [TS]

  have in this country and I'm sure people [TS]

  listening other countries it's better [TS]

  where you are but as with many things in [TS]

  the US for historical reasons and stupid [TS]

  governmental reasons many things are [TS]

  terrible and internet access is one of [TS]

  them and so send help yeah [TS]

  that's I can't say I can't add anything [TS]

  to that [TS]

  that wouldn't be just dark and [TS]

  depressing I mean if you want to if you [TS]

  want to be optimistic as people pointed [TS]

  out like the previous head of the FCC [TS]

  was also an industry person and I mean [TS]

  and you know all we did all the public [TS]

  comment and we'd almost rallying or [TS]

  whatever eventually we did you know we [TS]

  didn't get the result we wanted of [TS]

  course that was a very different [TS]

  administration and that's where Margo [TS]

  gets depressed again and we all get the [TS]

  prostate like that was a different [TS]

  administration but anyway but the fact [TS]

  that we have made progress on this in [TS]

  the past means it is not 100% impossible [TS]

  that we can make progress on the future [TS]

  and as we've learned administration's [TS]

  change right [TS]

  every 48 years so even if we lose this [TS]

  one we could still win the war unlike [TS]

  things like supreme I can talk about [TS]

  Supreme Court justices like this these [TS]

  are things that can change with the [TS]

  administration so anyway this is this is [TS]

  a great will be great rallying people to [TS]

  political action by telling them exactly [TS]

  how useless everything positive we have [TS]

  to do it it's like it's like all we can [TS]

  do we can vote and we can register to [TS]

  vote we can vote we can be active [TS]

  politically and we can do when they call [TS]

  for Hublot comment on things in the FCC [TS]

  does publicly comment you're part of the [TS]

  public comment that's what it's for even [TS]

  if you think you're gonna be ignored do [TS]

  you think the FCC gives a crap about [TS]

  public comments like do you think like [TS]

  who in what part of the population is [TS]

  asking for any of these laws that the [TS]

  trying to shove through like no one's [TS]

  asking for this big companies big [TS]

  companies with a lot of money that's [TS]

  right there's like four companies asking [TS]

  for it zero part of the population [TS]

  asking for it you know just like so much [TS]

  else that's going on there's like no one [TS]

  is asking for this except the people [TS]

  passing the laws well there you have it [TS]

  another rousing episode of a TV enjoy [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]