Top Four

Top Four 1: Video Games

 

  so I was asking Marco what his all-time

  favorite game was in the terms of not

  just out of nostalgia and what you

  thought was cool and what you loved but

  something that you would play right now

  again and enjoy it almost as much as the

  first time because you know who can

  recreate the first time but pretty darn

  close that you would feel like this is

  it just this is what I want to play

  right now and it will be so much fun and

  it'll be great and in any kind of

  situation that you found that the game

  was great the first time so whether it's

  the best multiplayer or single-player it

  doesn't matter however you wanted to

  play the game and that was what made it

  the best for you so what were your picks

  huh well your pick I think was more

  interesting well so my picks were first

  portal second half-life 2 third what was

  my third last of us that that's right oh

  my goodness last of us which I most

  recently played and forth was Dead

  Rising because who doesn't love sticking

  shower heads into the top Saddam B's and

  seeing blood come out which is awesome

  lucky him also broke a lot of new ground

  right it was just like this huge like it

  was just great going through the mall

  tons of zombies and just going you could

  either play through it or with like you

  know the scenarios or you just go nuts

  killing zombies like thousands at a time

  it was amazing so yeah who wouldn't have

  fun doing that again no matter what

  Adams asking for help anyway yeah so

  yeah

  portals my first one because it's just a

  brilliant witty wonderful game that I

  think has a lot of replay value and is

  fun and funny to me every time I play it

  you know every time I'm hearing

  something different I'm going even

  though you go through the polls again

  it's it's just great so I think that my

  go-to favorite game definitely portal

  because I will play it again at any time

  and it still brings me joy

  so my second favorite which was halfway

  to which I has found incredibly joyful

  to play and just because of the

  storyline very similar to why I loved

  the Last of Us I would enjoy playing

  that again because I'm a rewatch er of

  movies this is no I like to play games

  with good stories over and over again

  because I just wanted to quote unquote

  see that movie again so it's the same

  reason why I reread books I'm just a

  rewatch er I like the comfort of a story

  that I know because I don't like the

  risk of wasting my time on uh something

  that's gonna suck and you don't have

  that much time you uh you need to decide

  what you're gonna do with it so I'd

  rather stick with something I know so

  why I stick with you I mean not kidding

  anyway uh I love you need a bill well we

  were also discussing a little bit before

  we decided to jump onto a Mike was Marco

  and I used to play multiplayer half-life

  1 together the original half-life

  half-life 1 deathmatch not just not

  counter-strike just the actual

  deathmatch from half-life 1 with all

  those crazy maps and the rats maps and

  kill box

  I love the rats maps I loved going there

  all those little holes and running

  around the houses falling in the sink it

  was great I think kill box is my

  favorite half-life one deathmatch matter

  I would just always die and kill box you

  always wanted to play it and I thought

  it was funny just that it existed but I

  would I would always die every time well

  one of the best things about kill box is

  that it was one of the very few maps and

  maybe maybe this was remedied after we

  stopped playing but at least in the

  first couple of years it was one of the

  very few maps that you could have fun

  playing with only two people and that

  that was extremely unusual and so if you

  had like you and a friend on a land and

  there was no one else around because

  everything sucked back then you could

  still have tons of fun or I said I

  pretty much any other map required like

  you know at least for 4 to 6 people to

  have any fun on did I play on my laptop

  and you played on the desktop yep we did

  that on my Toshiba year-old tooshie but

  before I converted you to Apple products

  that's right before I convert it to

  Apple Prada

  both on PCs yeah I had to convert you to

  Windows 2000 and wasn't that the biggest

  step in our relationship that I allowed

  you to change my operating system that

  was that was a huge step you started out

  running I don't think it was any I think

  it was 98 it was the beginning of our

  real commitment together yeah mm-hmm you

  know you got to build trust slowly

  exactly but anyways so Marco your top

  games because Marco is tricky

  see this is a very telling question

  because Marco is not a gamer I'm a

  slight gamer I would say but you know

  Marco he used to play more games than he

  does now yeah I was more of a gamer like

  in high school in college and before

  high school you know you saw the kid but

  I pretty much stopped playing games

  around the time college college ended

  just because I I you know I started

  working and started programming more on

  the side and just decided I I just never

  really got into spending my time playing

  games as opposed to like programming

  pursuits that I wanted to do instead you

  did play half-life 2 though yeah College

  yeah I built a gaming PC right after I

  graduated from college and it was the

  least used computer I've ever owned

  because I also at the same time bought

  my first Mac laptop and and pretty

  quickly switched entirely to using Mac's

  full time so I had this

  that's nice Pentium 4 gaming PC sitting

  there doing almost nothing that I pretty

  much built just to play half-life 2 we

  both played it on there so yeah there we

  go yeah I didn't at the time I didn't

  know I was building it just to play

  half-life 2 and it probably wasn't worth

  it in retrospect I guess still picture

  sitting there in the desk in the corner

  of the room and I'm turning off all of

  the pound II things in half-life 2 and

  Markos behind me cracking up laughing

  and I'm like what cuz I thought you had

  to turn them all off because the first

  one you get to it's on NVIDIA law states

  that when you come to something with a

  switch you should flip it exactly so I

  went around almost dying at every turn

  and like running like hell to try and

  turn all these things off never

  realizing they're keeping the outlines

  away normally you flip a switch and then

  often after you flip a switch the next

  stage of the level opens up

  and a bunch of enemies come at you so it

  was a totally normal thing for you to

  find a switch that was on turn it off

  and all of a sudden you're rushed by

  enemies I love that you're justifying my

  ridiculousness and I love you for that I

  mean it was hilarious to don't get me

  wrong I can hear you laughing I didn't

  understand why you were laughing at that

  time why are we I'm like I'm just

  playing a game this is hard why are you

  laughing yeah you begged me to tell you

  and I said when you beat the game I'll

  tell you I was laughing yeah the second

  playthrough was so much easier oh my god

  that game was a joke after that oh my

  god and I played on hard so there we go

  anyway so yeah number one game mr.

  Herman I mean for me number everything

  past number one I have no idea it's it's

  a tough it's a tough ranking but number

  one is clear and that is total

  annihilation no question total

  annihilation it I've always been a big

  fan of RTS games I spent a lot of time

  playing Total Annihilation Land games in

  in high school and I was a part of the

  community I ran a fan site for a little

  while I made my own third party units

  that were terrible I was so into that

  game and it kind of makes me sad that

  that real time strategy games have not

  died out but are pretty out of fashion I

  mean I don't think we're see we're gonna

  see a lot of them I mean already you'd

  only see a good RTS game maybe once

  every 5 or 10 years or rather you'd only

  see a great one every 5 or 10 years like

  like you know after ta came out they

  were a bunch of other ones like I

  thought command & Conquer generals was a

  very good game I didn't think it was

  great but it was very good it was a lot

  of fun you know it was nowhere near

  balanced it was completely ridiculous

  once you could fill the buses with

  rocket people that was that was it but

  it was a it was a it was a very good fun

  game but Total Annihilation is a great

  game and there are very very few great

  RTS a--'s and they come out very

  infrequently and I I'm not sure we've

  had one since then I mean I certainly

  have not gotten into one as much that

  doesn't mean anything you know there

  even it had successors

  Kingdoms was terrible but we all knew

  that supreme commander was was the was

  like the kind of unofficial sequel to it

  and that was good but I never got like

  because a super meter came out when I

  was already in the workforce so like I

  was past the time where I could easily

  play with my high school friends so I

  think this this is probably kind of like

  you know you only think the music that

  you liked when you were a teenager is

  the best music and everything that came

  after that sucked most of because at the

  time you had like that was the music you

  were discovering kind of like with an

  adult dish mine for the first time and

  you were forming your own tastes and you

  had all this time to just listen to

  music and do nothing else cuz back then

  everything sucked there was no you know

  Facebook or anything maybe that was

  better but regardless you know there

  probably have been better RTS games that

  have come out since ta and I just

  haven't noticed them but I I don't think

  I'll ever recapture that again and the

  problem is you know playing an RTS game

  that shines on lands and that's a PC

  game not a console game that that's kind

  of like playing high school football

  once you're out of high school like you

  can't really ever get together and do

  that very easily again you know like

  it's like it's the kind of activity it's

  like that's a want like I was in

  marching band too it's another thing I

  love Martin being a marching band but

  like in school right like there is no

  Westchester County marching band for 32

  year olds like that's and I don't think

  yeah I don't think I would want to be in

  one or rather I shouldn't be in one even

  if they probably have a Facebook group

  if they do exist yeah that was Facebook

  well I mean like my game during that

  same era of my life was Starcraft and I

  played the hell out of that game you

  know I played it all the time with my

  friends I played it I played through the

  whole campaigns I I did the whole thing

  but you know I don't have the same

  nostalgia for it I just that's it it

  isn't as good of a game probably not

  because I just don't feel that love for

  it but at the time it was all I played

  you know I play all the time battlenet

  we did like I know the lurker D and all

  that kind of same leg like it just I

  play that game so much and

  it's just it's not in it's not in my top

  five see to me Starcraft you know when

  Starcraft 2 came out if actually a few

  months after total Total Annihilation

  did if I remember correctly it was it

  was shortly afterwards and one of the

  big problems ta had in the market was

  that it required a very high-end

  computer when it came out and almost

  nobody had a computer powerful enough to

  run it at the time it came out and

  within you know two years that wasn't a

  problem anymore but that too during that

  two-year Starcraft came out and had way

  lower system requirements Starcraft cuz

  ta was actually rendering everything in

  software rendered 3d it was except the

  land but all the units and everything

  everything was he was actually 3d before

  3d cards could really accelerate that so

  everything was done in software and star

  but Starcraft sorry Starbucks was also a

  terrible Starcraft was a purely 2d game

  everything about it was 2d and and it

  showed and I think and Starcraft so not

  only was it way easier on the hardware

  at the time so it was more accessible to

  people but it was also just an easier

  simpler game there are way fewer units

  you were dealing with much smaller

  numbers of units in battles like in tau

  would frequently have battles that

  included 400 units C and when I was

  playing I never even heard of TA and as

  a little secret this is the first time

  revealed to Marco the reason I got into

  StarCraft was because my dad brought it

  home and I thought it was neat so I was

  expecting way worse yeah that's really

  not that yeah my dad started playing at

  first yeah took that over so yeah I I

  think Starcraft I was never that into it

  so I can't really judge that accurately

  but I would I would ballpark it as being

  of similar quality as command and

  conquer generals which is it's a good

  game and it's fun but it's not

  necessarily maybe a great game now

  didn't we play Civ 3 together no we

  played rise of Nations

  that's right national one we're like you

  slowly advanced dirt through the years

  yeah Army's get better and like if

  you're on horses and then you have tanks

  yep yep yep okay resignation because it

  was kind of like a follow-on to the Age

  of Empires games yeah yeah we enjoyed

  playing that you tried to get me to play

  TA and I just

  and I couldn't love it with you so yeah

  well and bye that's my like like me and

  all my friends were complete ta experts

  and when you're playing with a bunch of

  experts as the newbie it's not very fun

  no you know and Tia and like starcraft

  ta also has a much higher learning curve

  because there are so many more unit

  types and everything you know the tech

  tree is way bigger and everything just

  everything's bigger and just has a bit

  more of learning curve to it so that's

  why ta didn't do as well on the market a

  Starcraft that and the system

  requirements being way higher but I

  still maintain that you know I mean

  chess has a learning curve doesn't make

  it a bad game also all those games

  they're not very good watching games you

  know like all of my top games are great

  watching games yeah it's it is they have

  stories it's like watching a movie so if

  you're just sitting with someone playing

  a video game and you're the watcher you

  know which I actually love watching

  people play video games it's pretty not

  that kind yeah just not uh you know

  things like TA and Starcraft it's just

  who wants to see it's just not fun yeah

  there's no story it's all about the

  battles right it's personal it's too

  personal

  exactly there was even I was reading

  this article a couple months ago about

  it was like it was like the German board

  game designers they keep making all

  these great German board games that we

  all love like Settlers of Catan and

  Porter and Puerto Rico and stuff like

  that

  Agricola however that's pronounced I'm

  sorry and you know all these games and

  they share a lot of the same qualities

  of like what makes a game fun or not fun

  and they were something big ranking and

  like monopoly was ranked as one of the

  least fun games and honestly monopoly

  gets a bad rap I was an expert monopoly

  player for like two years and so one fun

  playing with Marco because he's so

  serious with monopoly well monopoly gets

  a bad rap because the number one

  complaint people have about it is it it

  takes too long the reason it takes too

  long is because you have to wait until

  everybody goes bankrupt and the way

  people think they're making the game

  easier and more fun for their family is

  they have these house rules that inject

  money into the game like oh if you land

  on a free parking you get $500 or

  whatever like all these like these rules

  that

  add money to the game and if you're

  adding money and you're waiting for me

  to go bankrupt that's gonna take longer

  so all the house rules that supposedly

  make monopolies easier make it longer

  and so if you actually play by the rules

  it doesn't take as long but anyway yeah

  it only takes four hours instead of

  eight it does not take four hours I mean

  if you're playing with people who

  already know how to play the game and

  don't take forever to make their turns

  you can complete monopoly game in like

  an hour and a half

  what's your monopoly piece wait let me

  try and guess the race car of course

  yeah all right what's my monopoly piece

  hmm if you were playing today if I'm

  playing

  always maybe the thimble oh yeah I

  forgot about the pimple did I just

  change your piece

  no I guess I have two favorite pieces

  awesome I have a backup strategy the

  backup piece in case you ready case

  somebody takes it well I could I like I

  like the pieces that I can interact with

  while fiddling so you know just like I

  like games where you can easily stack

  the pieces I like I like the iron

  because it has the little handle and I

  like the thimble because you can put it

  on your finger that makes sense yeah all

  the other pieces you can't really

  interact with them or like the ones like

  like the the horse statue that just like

  falls over so easily yeah that one's got

  a dog those both got adorable and but

  it's very highly contested so I just

  rather stay out of that fight and even

  though it's very much domestic Betty of

  me too you know like the thimble and the

  iron even though I hate ironing Marco

  did all the ironing was you have a nice

  fancy iron that you use at Christmas

  that's for large amounts of fabric for

  like ironing clothes well you don't

  worry with my wardrobe now yes nothing

  to do except for replace your shirts

  exactly which I do don't you know I

  literally do nothing online shopping is

  wonderful so go back to monopoly yeah

  and what the reason we're done oh the

  reason I brought that up is because like

  there is this article I'll have to blame

  to it for the show notes for the show

  that isn't a real show and there was

  some article it was saying like you know

  what makes games fun and everything and

  one of the principles that makes games

  fun is if one player can have like a

  pretty clear victory early on and like

  everyone kind of knows like that

  person's probably gonna win but you but

  like everyone has to play it through

  anyway that is less fun right and also

  one of the less fun things is if there's

  player elimination in mid game so like

  if someone it like officially loses the

  game

  but then the game doesn't actually end

  for the other players for a while like

  monopoly if you go back exactly so you

  can look at video games and a lot of

  them you know a lot of the multiplayer

  games have these similar problems yeah

  when you're playing like the bond games

  and then one person dies and then you're

  like well go get a drink I guess well

  you know you just respawned oh don't you

  know like deathmatch games or don't have

  this problem like the team-based games

  have a very slight version works like

  there's something that you really like a

  delay we're like you have to wait to get

  back into it and like yeah that's really

  it's a really short delay usually it's

  not it's nice it's not significant like

  you might have to wait for your whole

  team to die or something but you're

  you're waiting maybe thirty seconds to

  two minutes you know you know you're not

  waiting hours Tim where am I thinking of

  it like he was totally getting knocked

  out well in lots of games I mean but the

  reason I brought this up is like RTS is

  have this problem where like they have

  they have both these problems where it

  you can often often very early on it's

  very clear if one person's gonna win and

  they had like they have such a

  commanding leave is so obviously to the

  other players but you just kind of have

  to wait until they come around and kill

  you all that's no good and also if

  you're playing a RTS round with more

  than one of the person so if there's if

  there's more than two players in a game

  and you're the guy who gets killed right

  you know in the middle slash no rush

  right yeah if you're kind of person in

  your olds it rush your base and kill you

  with like three Zerg and that's it all

  right

  and that's so so death so that makes

  them less fun with if you if you're if

  you die first and have to sit around

  waiting for your friends to finish the

  game before you play the game and then

  online as you just mention like the

  reason I see I only ever played RTS

  games with my friends

  uh yeah other people online are totals

  right like lately there are certain

  certain game types can tolerate like big

  mismatches and skill and have it not be

  totally unfun for everybody else and

  some

  times it involves like you know giving

  the people who are less skilled of bonus

  stuff look like it like Mario Cart does

  like that they're rubber banding they

  call it of like mm-hmm

  keeping with like artificially keeping

  the players closer in the game but like

  an RTS doesn't have that and so like

  every time I try to play an RTS online I

  would go into you know some lobby if

  something started a game with some

  people and I would just I would die

  within like five minutes it's like to

  get what you know these are people who

  were like really advanced players who

  knew all like this the special build

  order to optimally come and rush people

  as soon as possible I mean the same

  thing happens for first-person shooters

  to though you go online and they just

  like blow your head off the second you

  walk out and that's it like it's over I

  feel like with the first-person shooters

  they like you have you at least have a

  chance like get one shot off sometimes

  and the most recent 13 year olds they're

  brutal

  oh my gosh they are too good at games

  well I loved the Last of Us so I tried

  to play it online for like two seconds

  and forget it oh it was over they were

  like you're ruining our team you're dead

  and that's it and I was like I'm so out

  of my league yes go back to my quiet

  living room maybe why I stopped really

  playing games as an adult because like

  my friends are my friends were used to

  play games with in college in high

  school they're all you know different

  states different things they have jobs

  they have kids whatever like so what

  about kids but you would love journey

  john shoutout to you

  journeys great online cuz you don't have

  to really interact with anyone cuz no

  one can kill you well this is this is

  part of the reason why like these days

  if i'm gonna play a game at all i really

  care more about either either like a

  casual game that you can just play with

  anybody you know like letterpress like

  in a turn-based like you know

  intellectual games that are not that not

  that hard you know for people like not

  that big of a skill gap it becomes a

  problem there so the things like

  letterpress or these games that have

  really good single-player modes that I

  never even even either isn't a

  multiplayer mode or I don't need to play

  it to really enjoy the game I think I

  think games like Draw Something where

  people's vastly different skill levels

  make it even better because someone who

  can draw amazing makes it fun because

  they can draw amazing and then

  someone who draws awful makes it fun

  because it's hilarious how awful people

  draw things but yeah you can still guess

  what it is exactly is that game still

  around

  didn't they sell like a gazillion

  dollars to somebody that was a good

  story so we know the guy Charles who

  Charles Horman who was the founder of

  like with you oh my god oh my god he's a

  character if you're listening Charles

  you are great he's not listening but

  anyway yeah no that was a good story

  actually so so that it was this company

  called Ivan like with you that first was

  some kind of like like dating game and

  then he it was and it was all flat it

  was this big flash game for the web

  browser this is all before this was a

  couple years before the iPhone I was

  like 2006 within seven you're right in

  the beginning a tumbler yeah yeah yeah

  so is this big flash game he very

  quickly discovered that rather than like

  scoring these points that you could use

  for dating purposes which is what it

  originally was he discovered this making

  making casual flash games was way easier

  to get people to care about it and use

  it and there was way more money in that

  so this first insight pivoted into that

  and so even though it was called I'm in

  like with you it was just these these

  like stupid games it had nothing to do

  with dating and it eventually in tons

  and tons and tons of stupid games right

  it was like like you know how like most

  of the first games for the we were like

  collections of mini games Charles's

  stuff put that to shame like there would

  be so many of these things like anyway

  and then see it was renamed OMG pop and

  that's what it was for a while and then

  one of the games they made for that for

  that site that was just a collection of

  flash games one of the games they made

  eventually whether and I don't know

  whether it was flash first or not but

  was draw something so you and you can

  tell me that it looks like it looks like

  a casual flash game it's like hangman

  for drawing yeah like it just it looks

  like it was made by flash developers

  because it was and it plays like a

  casual flash game because it basically

  is so that came out and his company was

  basically in shambles at this point

  far as I know I don't have any inside

  info because we stopped talking to them

  you know we just stopped seeing him cuz

  we moved out of the city we stopped

  seeing everybody yeah yeah so we you

  know I haven't talked to Charles Foreman

  and since 2006 I think but but from what

  I've heard his company was really like

  in shambles and and they happen to have

  this one game draw something that was

  taking off like crazy on the iPhone and

  iPad and right at the peak of that game

  when it was as big as it could possibly

  be

  Zynga bought their company for like a

  gajillion dollars for some massive

  amount of money Zynga bought the whole

  company which was in shambles and then

  and it turned out Zynga bought them

  literally at the peak of draw something

  like the game started plummeting and you

  see because you know it was a fad so

  right after the game was bought but a

  chillin playing it for like three days

  and like everyone played it yeah every

  like even my dad was playing it we were

  laughs its Derek about everyone's

  drawings oh yes everyone was playing it

  but then it just dropped like a rock and

  this would be a terrible story for the

  person who bought it if it wasn't Zynga

  who's just evil like so

  nobody ever should feel any sorrow for

  Zynga for anything so it's great like

  it's it's like if bin Laden got ripped

  off in a deal like you'd like nobody

  nobody thinks badly of that I mean you

  know they're on that they're not that

  bad but but they're they're they're not

  good people

  you know like they're you know that was

  obviously hyperbole but I think it's not

  good people

  so nobody cares if everything it gets a

  bad deal so anyway oh my god I was

  getting a B Tetris I think if if I had

  to pick a game that was the best game in

  the world I would say Tetris but I

  haven't played Tetris in a very long

  time because I used to play like crazy

  on my graphing calculator in school but

  the problem is that I Tetris really

  requires a d-pad and buttons and I

  really have not had devices that have

  those things that can play Tetris for a

  long time at least you know that that

  have a version of Tetris for than like

  you know I guess we know we have the ps3

  but that's I don't think there's a good

  tetris version time you play testers

  might

  been on our NES on the enolate or on the

  emulators yeah I think it was on the

  emulator but even I was its gamepad so

  anyway Tetris on phones is terrible

  Tetris and iPads yeah same thing you

  know all these all these great games

  really require a d-pad and buttons and

  just suck on a touchscreen so do you

  even have a number 2 game I have a whole

  bunch of games that would that would all

  be like number 4 right like I don't like

  I don't if that makes sense like see you

  over 1 to 4 but like 3 you know I would

  put moon base commander up very high I

  wouldn't include it the game of the year

  that nobody played is that what it was

  it was it was the best game nobody

  played of 2002 according to GameSpot I

  didn't even know if GameSpot still

  exists don't think it does good shooting

  text exactly

  you're dead on so moon base commander

  would definitely be up there but again

  that's a game where that plays best on a

  land and it and you can't really play it

  like to public people on the internet it

  doesn't matter how you play it it's it's

  your favorite game regardless of ease of

  recreating like this is just fantasy

  here yeah I mean you place the collector

  directly on the energy pool yeah like I

  would definitely play moon base

  commander like I would love to play that

  again why well because it requires

  Windows yeah to set up like I mean we

  both have good computers that could run

  it but then you have to either set up a

  virtualization thing which doesn't

  really work that well with most games or

  set of boot camp which is even more of a

  pain in the and takes up even more space

  but at least works better well now that

  we instantly have you know dozens of

  listeners someone out there should make

  a I phone version and we or iPad version

  when you play that's the best Easi

  somebody bought the rights to moon base

  commander a couple years ago because it

  re was the owner of it the big publisher

  Atari not like the old gaming eventually

  anyway and they had this big auction

  when they sold off all their like crappy

  properties nobody wanted for almost no

  money and this was one of them I

  actually considered putting in a bid but

  really yeah III was think about buying

  the rights to maneuver yeah well I mean

  I didn't get I didn't get far like the

  GameStop bins looking for it yeah yeah

  because it was only it was only ever

  like five bucks like I'm pretty sure it

  was released directly into the $5 bin

  like it it's made for two

  ya know the rule easter letter directly

  to video yeah exactly yeah it's the it

  was like the direct-to-video equivalent

  it was like just released into the $5

  bin I mean I would love to hear from

  anyone else who played this game because

  it really is quite fun the first time

  you played it was I with you we played

  no it was it was in marks apartment in

  Ohio anyway oh so you but you showed it

  to me and then yeah sure it's you soon

  afterwards and we played it together a

  lot yeah yeah I mean it because it's

  it's a great game for five bucks and so

  anyway so a company I forget the name a

  company bought the rights to moon base

  commander like you know a year and a

  half ago or two years ago and they they

  tweaked it a little bit to run basically

  on modern systems and without a disk and

  they released it on Steam so you can you

  can go buy it right now on Steam I think

  I think it's five bucks still if you

  only play it on Windows exactly that's

  the problem there's still no Mac version

  and it does virtualize okay until I

  Carroll ELLs or whatever one of those

  like it virtualize is okay but it's not

  great like there's some Mouse issues and

  it's just what it needs to be modernized

  and I think it would make an amazing

  turn-based iPad game yeah because like

  all you to do is like you know touch

  where you want the things to land and

  how much it's very much like a

  scorched-earth kind of quick yeah it's

  like it's a wrap you it's everything is

  turn-based there I mean there's an

  optional time limit but it doesn't

  really need to be time limited and you

  know and the precision of the

  controllers rolling around the map yeah

  I mean like so easy you could so easily

  do this well as easy just to make any

  game but which is really not complicated

  there's like some like you know gulabi

  looking pools and some mountains and

  that's about it yeah and and it was just

  images those weren't 3d models like that

  yeah yeah so you could you could totally

  do and the land was totally static too

  because no matter what you threw on it

  the stuff would just blow up with like a

  cheesy explosion right it would leave

  like a scorching a sprite that's being

  right on top of the land like it was

  yeah it was no big deal so yeah you

  could totally do this game you could

  probably even build it like with sprite

  kit in like I don't know not that much

  time and you probably put more time on

  the artwork than you would on the engine

  and nowadays now there are all these

  physics engines like game developers can

  just add a physics engine of things and

  like it does collision detection for you

  does that the ballistics and all the

  textures would be like three dollars you

  know like I mean you could spend them I

  think only money getting it done and

  like fashion like fashion in games has

  changed since then you could just do it

  like desert golfing style where like you

  just have everything just be the the

  shittiest version it could look like

  everything just like you know flat

  colors and lines and low resolution

  maybe of like moon texture come on well

  make it a fit then it'll stall it crazy

  make it make it look like a crappy old

  NES game with you know very big pixel

  art and that's it that's all you know I

  think it's way cooler because it looks

  more like f-zero kind of styling like

  with that like lobby space but I think

  it's like I think I think it looks a

  little bit dated though because like

  everything in 2002 look like that right

  so it would be a cool 2002 retro game

  maybe wow this looks so 2002 I love it I

  I think 2002 is a little bit too close

  to have any retro fans no one's like man

  I I wish I could play this on a zip disc

  right now he's like the pastels of the

  90s decorating like no one no one's into

  that anyway right it was too soon it's

  too sick even zip disks those that's

  that was earlier yeah it's like morally

  it's the 2002 is more like saved my

  yearbook on zip drives yeah this is more

  like you know the the peak of CDRs you

  know a dvd-r wasn't really out yet CB

  ours were anyway so I would put moon

  base commander somewhere around number

  four with everything else around number

  four so moon base commander doesn't even

  rank number three above your other

  number fours I don't know I don't know

  what the other number fours are I mean I

  actually oh I know I know I know what

  about what was the game we bought the

  PlayStation 4 the one game wipeout yeah

  yeah wipeout but but which one like know

  your favorite this is all about you hon

  I the one I spent the most time playing

  was the ps2 version that I bought for

  your roommates ps2 and Holly and I never

  actually owned a ps2 you know yeah and

  so I bought a pink alot of kool-aid that

  year it was literally like not like

  joining a cult like we actually

  kool-aid yeah we were so into it it was

  we were allowed to this we were college

  we were adults and we can make decisions

  that's mostly it wasn't actually here

  she no chair it was like it was like

  Crystal Light or something really other

  actual kool-aid no and we made in the

  Nalgene bottles before your analogy

  involved anyway so I drank kool-aid

  played uh this is our gaming podcast

  yeah I already forgot the name what was

  it

  I did we have a name no no not of our

  podcast of the game we were just talking

  about wipeout wipeout yeah yeah so we

  were talking about wipeout I believe

  fusion I think that was the one for

  people of that game isn't that even like

  the nostalgia of playing that it's a

  really fun reason to go for I don't

  think it's even that high it's below

  your it's a game I remember playing tons

  with you and it's still not even I put

  that around like you know ten fifteen I

  don't know so yeah I think our

  conclusion is your top game as ta

  which also happens to be my initials

  even before we were married

  and second is monopoly which has nothing

  to do with video games and what I say

  third is nothing and your fourth is a

  whole bunch of other stuff yeah so

  basically basically what I what I've

  what I decided is that I'm a terrible

  gamer as I always have been and that

  might have a number one game a bunch of

  number four games only one of those I

  could actually name and then a number

  ten or fifteen game no you may named a

  couple we have moon base commander yeah

  we have a wipeout no I that was the one

  I said was like ten or fifteen ten or

  fifteen it just jaw dropped like ten

  mics right now that's I did we can

  listen to the recording also in the

  fours I would put one of the worms games

  that one of the two DS games and that's

  when we were we were on the couch having

  this conversation like we should really

  record this and we should totally talk

  about worms because we played worms

  together a lot and it is fantastic and

  fun oh yeah I mean and worms like talk

  about thank the game for a game time for

  God right like worms you can play it

  with a controller or with a touchscreen

  doesn't matter were cute adorable it's

  adorable it's it's accessible for people

  even if they're not very good

  games normally you can and one of the

  biggest things you can play a hot seat

  like you don't each person doesn't need

  their own device or console or

  controller or or you know compressor for

  young couples yeah like you can you can

  just like you can gather four people are

  out a computer or an Xbox and you can

  play worms and it's great it's a lot of

  fun they had they had a bad time with a

  3d transition though yeah Wednesday once

  the weapons start getting really

  complicated they ruined it it was so

  great just having it was fun naming your

  worms and having a hideous team Marcos

  favorite favorite kill was the prod

  absolutely of course because I'm a

  smartass you just go over and prod a

  worm and off they go and that was the

  prod that what makes the prod so great

  it's horrible a die from the prod

  exactly what makes the prod so great is

  that it is really insulting because it's

  like I could have I could have killed

  you in in a much bigger way with the

  Holy Hand Grenade with what was it

  exploding sheep there were so many great

  and wonderful ways to kill somebody in

  that game and you just walk over and you

  poke them and then they die like it's

  like I'm gonna put no effort into this

  whatsoever and you're gonna die like

  that's if that's it's the master insult

  it's just like that's it it is the best

  anything you could do to kill someone

  with a prod I would go to ridiculous

  lanes to do or like in the very the

  sudden death when everyone has one after

  like all the toxic the neurotoxin falls

  from the sky is need to like slink on

  over get your pride exact did but it's

  hilarious when you miss the pride that's

  the risk you take right and like that

  that's why when you when you succeed it

  is so great because you are taking a

  pretty big risk of embarrassing yourself

  by trying it man it's so great I

  remember the one we played was a worms

  world party which is very similar to

  worms Armageddon but with a couple more

  things a worms Armageddon was the one

  that most people would play at the time

  worms world party was the one that I had

  and it was it was just great and

  actually I actually even had worms one

  on my 486 worms one was great but anyway

  yeah not only not only the gameplay but

  the process of setting up your team

  everything it just it's so personal it

  was funny it was cute you could be as

  creative as you wanted to be and yeah

  Marco always picked the soul man voices

  you don't know yeah it was great I mean

  that and again it was accessible it was

  fun

  it had very low system requirements and

  you could it had hot seats you could

  play with everyone around one computer I

  mean that's a great game it has been

  years since we played that and could we

  could we play that again we're

  discussing how to be played again but

  where could we play worms well there

  they have like the worms franchise is

  still going and they have these games

  available for iPad and everything but

  really they have really terrible reviews

  everyone says like they crash all the

  time like it seems like so many so many

  of these big awesome old game franchises

  many of them are still around today but

  they're terrible like SimCity really

  thanks Tim Tower remember when that came

  to iPad yeah we were all excited sim two

  hours coming sim towers coming and then

  it just wasn't that good yeah it was

  pretty bad

  and and SimCity I haven't actually

  played the new sim cities yet but from

  the reviews I've read it seems like

  everyone thinks some more things about

  it which is like you think it's gonna be

  one thing and it's just it just doesn't

  capture the spirit of the old what I

  mean I didn't even like some city for to

  be honest I was a SimCity one two and

  three thousand person myself but so even

  some cities don't make the list they're

  still on number four

  nor lower I would I would say SimCity

  3000 which is the one I had the most

  time I had a lot of time with one two

  and three but three thousand I think was

  the best SimCity that was made but I

  would group that in with the force with

  my number fours oh that's that you one

  of them when you born city would be one

  of them sorry and what else yeah I mean

  Tetris number two I don't know ta some

  stuff and you know Tetris worms your two

  and three are the dark times now we have

  like two I I would say half I too would

  be in the four is also because it was

  just such a great game especially at the

  time but yeah put that in there for sure

  we're also talking about how we tried to

  do a speed run through half-life 2 oh

  yeah that's a fun because it's fun it

  you know

  if you're actually serious about

  speedruns I imagine it would be a lot of

  work to keep up with them and try to do

  them and just very tedious it works I

  try to beat your times and everything if

  but if you're like us you don't normally

  do speedruns to do one every so often is

  really fun it's hilarious just outrun

  everything not pick up any kind of

  power-ups don't open any crates just

  book it yeah just run over locals

  [Laughter]

  none of the extras explore nothing

  [Music]

  exactly

  so yeah I mean what else I mean I've

  enjoyed a lot of desert golf and I think

  I might put in top ten somewhere not not

  in two or three maybe in the floors

  maybe not top four here we're not even

  going for me to say really padding up

  that fourth spot I mean yeah nothing man

  I don't I I don't have a lot of great

  like I have a lot of games that I played

  and had fun at the time like like I said

  like CNC generals is a great example

  that I played it I had a lot of fun at

  the time but I would never like take the

  time right now to go set up a system to

  play that again like it would never be

  worth that time to me

  no not even worth the time like think

  this is this is Fantasyland because it

  doesn't matter how much time or how many

  people it requires to play your favorite

  game or we're just talking and let's say

  you have an entire day where you have to

  play games and you have to play four of

  them what's the first one you would play

  I mean if I have my friends I'm playing

  yeah it doesn't just say everything's

  magically in place for you to play your

  favorite game in any kind of

  configuration that you would be happiest

  and most joyful playing yeah so that's

  that's going to be T a moon base

  commander maybe maybe a racing game so

  maybe why the commander K is actually in

  a gear number two so we have ta nut for

  sleepy moon base commander number two

  wipeout number three and a whole bunch

  of others for number four and I wouldn't

  say though I wouldn't say wipeout is my

  favorite game ever but if I'm gonna be

  playing I'm gonna be playing multiplayer

  game like I want to build like a

  playlist of what I would play building a

  playlist of

  you're you know then yeah then I would

  probably go yeah I would go ta moonbase

  a racing game of some kind and if

  shooting game of some kind

  I think that would be common but you're

  a favorite racing game of some kind

  seems to have been wipeouts I think so I

  mean we had a lot of fun with Mario Kart

  but that was at Mario Kart or is it

  wipeout well see I use I generally love

  the category of battle racing racing

  with weapons I think that's a lot of fun

  and not always some of them have been

  pretty terrible but for the most part

  that that category is very fun and

  that's why Mario karts fun that's why

  wipeout is fun the new Mario Kart is not

  fun sorry John siracusa it is not fun we

  play it anyhow and I can't get into it

  if there's too much happening

  there's too much happens that's this is

  the problem like this is you get like

  some sort of weird spiral wings and hell

  of things and I don't know I don't know

  what's happening I don't know what's

  happening I just miss the days where you

  had little balloons on the back of your

  car and you had to drive after each

  other and try and pop him though I it

  took it took us falling out of most of

  the modern gaming world or at least took

  me falling out of most of that world

  before I realized how inaccessible it is

  and me I don't know if it's getting more

  inaccessible over time like if the walls

  are getting higher or if it's just me

  getting older and further away from

  being it now as soon as Mario got 3d it

  got crazy it's crazy yeah I never

  honestly I never liked Mario World I

  mean like I respect it I mean a 3d mark

  I respected it as a game Mario 64's I

  respected it as a game it was it was a

  very good technical achievement but I

  never wanted that game I never wanted

  like I never wanted to really play it

  like I enjoyed watching it when it was

  brand-new and it was revolutionary but I

  think 2d Mario's were more fun and if I

  would if I was gonna go back and play

  any Mario game right now it would either

  be Mario 3 or Super Mario World and

  neither of which are 3d

  yeah more recent that's going right back

  to the kids these days I know they're

  crazy music

  kids these days a 3d Mario games and 3d

  worms and Mario Kart that sucks I know

  back when things were simpler that's a

  thing like I feel like games

  have at least like you know like like

  the big-name games like the triple a

  big-name big-budget games that are for

  PCs and consoles for 50 bucks like that

  that genre of game in the time since

  that was a new thing like in the 80s and

  90s and as games have come up they've

  they've added so much like there's so

  much more to them now they've just

  bolted on and bolted on like like

  Microsoft Office toolbars and buttons

  like they just like bolted stuff on over

  time to just keep making the game's

  better and better and newer and more

  interesting that people who already know

  them I feel like it's pushing out people

  who don't already know them because it's

  it's making the games way more

  complicated like you know controllers

  these days have way more buttons on them

  than controllers did in the 90s and 80s

  systems can do way more the games have

  way more features there's all these

  different special moves and everything

  and and not to say that games used to be

  easier necessarily what they use let's

  talk about the special moves because in

  my top four list I have at the very

  bottom number four is Dead Rising which

  as soon as you stop playing that game at

  least for me and my amount of memory it

  is impossible to get back into like I

  was playing Dead Rising 2 the one where

  you're stuck in the where are you stuck

  it doesn't matter somewhere there's

  zombies it's crazy casino kind of thing

  but I was almost done playing the game I

  may be a couple missions from the very

  end and I had to stop I believe I might

  have had a baby or something but I had

  to stop playing and I can never go back

  because I made it so far I I can't

  imagine you know playing through it

  again I'm talking about the second one

  here without just you know kind of going

  around and killing zombies that's that's

  super fun but you know seriously playing

  through all the levels again because the

  catalog of moves you have to remember in

  order to get back into it at that high

  level to continue on it's just

  impossible like I don't think I can

  remember the button combinations that I

  had to remember when I was playing the

  game for like a week straight you know

  like it's it's just over I'm so glad I

  beat the first one in one shot because

  otherwise

  I don't think I could go back and play

  it even though it is one of my favorite

  games and I just love the the concept in

  the world that it created I just I don't

  it's just not accessible to to pick up

  in the middle of it where you know and

  certain games that have easier

  functionality and it's just like you

  know shoot you have some weapons and you

  just do it or games like Marco

  you know like Tetris or something where

  it's just kind of a more casual yeah

  yeah yeah more casual gaming that it's

  easy to love and easy to jump in and out

  of you know some of the more complex

  ones its whoo it's rough that I don't

  know how people play things like Street

  Fighter what was the one like yes yeah

  yeah yeah couldn't do it couldn't do it

  well that's and compared to something

  like Dead Rising that's trivial or

  what's a Final Fantasy's those I can

  never get into either because yeah

  there's a there's just so many like move

  combo potion jumping spinning this thing

  like leaving Zelda has that stuff though

  well again Zelda's another one you have

  to like sit and play through it and like

  have that catalogue of knowledge but if

  you let it lapse for you know a couple

  months a year two years you can't just

  like jump back into a game and be like

  alright now I'm gonna beat this you know

  you you had to have just done it yeah

  that's true you can't give up in the

  middle if you plan on finishing I mean

  to some degree I would say the GTA games

  are like that oh yeah oh yeah you know

  it's not quite the same good like the

  moves aren't as complicated but it's

  very similar MRIs Maps like you can't

  remember them you're like how did I get

  here to that place and this play it's

  like you have to play a lot to remember

  the map in order to get around really

  fast exactly and even then as a GTA

  friend I mean you know not GTA 1 and 2

  those were top-down 2d but I actually

  played and enjoyed when they were out

  which one do we play together we played

  Vice City right and we would uh we we

  kind of tag-team it where we would play

  a mission until we couldn't beat it

  anymore and then we'd pass it off to the

  next person no II would just switch off

  on death or being caught that's what I

  mean like up through missions and then

  once we got stuck on on something and

  then we pass it off and the next person

  would would be able to have it come at

  it with like fresh eyes and do it then

  you passed that mission and then once

  that person got stuck on like maybe

  five missions after that we'd switch

  again that was great yeah a lot of fun

  but even then like I would not go back

  and play Vice City again now but we

  never finished it because it was on your

  friends that's right we never finished

  it and it was my friend's xbox and he

  had to go home for the summer because we

  hit the end of it and so we don't have

  our saved game so there's no way I'm

  gonna start over right like and then

  like you know I later got my own Xbox

  and a copy of I city and just never

  played it because we didn't want to

  restart the whole save game and like I

  don't know like to me now looking at

  games like that they just seem like work

  like I don't want to play that game

  because it just seems like a bunch of

  work to me like in a bad way work where

  you don't really accomplish anything and

  then you're like yeah and nobody says

  anything everybody and not to mention

  and you know and part of the problem

  with those games it's like it's kind of

  like when you when when like you're a

  college freshman and every other word

  that you say is a swear word because you

  can finally swear without your parents

  being up your butt constantly so like

  you think swearing is really cool for a

  couple of years and then you realize

  it's just like okay this is a tool to be

  used sometimes but it's not that cool

  and I think GTA kind of has that where

  it's like when it first came out it was

  like oh my god you can like pick up

  hookers in a car and drive over people

  and stuff and it was this like really

  cool thing when you're in college and

  now as an adult looking at this I'm just

  like that's kind of girl this is like I

  don't I don't really want to be playing

  that oh here let me help you get that

  change off the floor yeah like here take

  your wallet at least like I don't want

  to be a about it like it just now I'm

  sorry prostitute I'll pay you now

  instead of killing you you do take

  square I love our 20-minute podcast this

  is great yeah so yeah I I couldn't I

  can't enjoy games like that anymore like

  I feel like I feel like it would be like

  going back and visiting a high school

  like I just feel like I'm too old to do

  that yeah I can't really play games

  where I'm a thug to real people yeah

  it's different you got to survive it's

  brutal yeah and I can't play like a

  realistic war games

  cuz no I don't like realistic war is

  terrible a male like a watcher I can't

  watch people play realistic war games I

  just I don't get it and I'm not into

  sports games

  I'm not into RPGs so like or mmo's so

  there's really there's not that many

  game types out there that are still made

  in in reasonable quantities say that I

  really would would get into and I think

  that I think that's just one of the

  reason I'm not a gamer right now is

  because like I fell out of it for a

  while and what's made now be the stuff I

  don't care about or stuff that seems

  impenetrably complex to me looking

  looking in from the outside yeah and all

  the little like independent games that

  we have since like downloaded and played

  on xbox and on PlayStation they're just

  not they're not play again enough

  they're not they're not good enough to

  play again yeah they're very grey them

  they're great when you play them like

  limbo and I love that one Shadow Complex

  yeah oh that's yep that way I think yeah

  shadow come for a really good braid was

  so hard we never got and yeah we weren't

  smart enough to get that you uh you got

  a lot further than I did I did but it

  just whoo-hoo I'm very stuck and I will

  never become unstuck at the level I'm

  stuck at yeah just broke my brain like I

  was like okay I get this I get this

  time-traveling physics backwards do that

  okay and then it's like I don't know it

  just shut down

  it hit my wall smart wall was just

  smacked into and I debris just died so

  yeah I don't like those games we I think

  we liked him a lot because they were

  like older games like braid is like

  Mario World on crack and Shadow Complex

  is really just Metroid but done with

  modern graphics and stuff mm-hmm

  so it was like usually these are you

  know old game types that are kind of you

  know them to was kind of fun like we we

  would be on the couch together playing

  them and and one of us would have the

  controller and the other one would be

  like ooh try that way or oh I saw that

  little secret thing so we were kind of

  like backseat driving each other with

  the game but we liked that it was fun it

  was it was cooperative it was yeah good

  time it was like our little date night

  was playing

  little games like that exactly and and

  that like I would love for to find more

  games like that but there there aren't

  that many like we started playing limbo

  like that but then I ended up finishing

  it yeah I wasn't I didn't get that into

  limbo creepy love it you kind of squish

  in everything that ragdoll physics or is

  it just like runs down your spine

  exactly exactly so anyway those are

  those are our games and I think uh-huh

  at least I'm the worst at this

  you are the worst of this but I have a

  great name for our podcast I thought

  about it while we were waiting for our

  dog to pee I think we should call it top

  4 and we should talk about our favorite

  four things in pretty much any category

  whenever we're feeling like it yeah I

  think there's a lot of different things

  that we can discuss that we like and

  don't like because we're really good at

  that about having opinions very good

  opinion we're super good at opinion I

  mean no one's gonna listen to this

  though sure they will no no chance well

  we'll see we'll take a little Twitter

  poll or I I don't know do they do that

  do you have like little I'm sure there's

  a million different apps that nobody

  cares about to let you do this you like

  us check yes sir no if not we can write

  one that can be our next startup will

  you go to prom with me I figured it more

  appropriate name would just be Tiffin

  Marco bull for a while I mean that's

  that could be the subtitle but I think

  time for pretty good because it focuses

  us to four things even though we know

  we're gonna be talking about 30 things

  that's true and we're probably gonna be

  as good as I was naming my top 4 video

  games I picked my first one and my 22nd

  video I did it was half-life 2 no no no

  portal right then half-life 2 then the

  Last of Us and then left Dead Rising

  okay

  that's not bad

  yeah not bad and those are my top based

  on how much fun I had playing them and

  how odd that I would love to play them

  again so they'd be on my like I have

  free time playlist I would love to have

  the time to play them all again yeah man

  I wish somebody would make good RTS more

  often