The Accidental Tech Podcast

234: Everybody Has Asterisks

 

  when we last saw our heroes they were [TS]

  doing all the things they normally do [TS]

  but today they do something different [TS]

  this is the Q&A episode all right so it [TS]

  is still in a teepee time Friday the 4th [TS]

  of August but most of you listening are [TS]

  probably listening somewhere on or [TS]

  around the 9th of August and we did this [TS]

  because as we covered last episode we [TS]

  didn't plan our vacation as well in any [TS]

  case oh yeah we're gonna do a Q&A [TS]

  episode so we had solicited had being [TS]

  the keyword solicited questions via [TS]

  Twitter are you telling our audience to [TS]

  please stop asking questions now is that [TS]

  what that means well you can certainly [TS]

  continue to ask questions but we are not [TS]

  planning another Q&A episode for at [TS]

  least a year you can ask but they're [TS]

  pretty much going into the ether but [TS]

  what about the S key TP segment that [TS]

  we're gonna add to the show yeah I I [TS]

  would I would like to keep the questions [TS]

  going oh I mean they don't have to be [TS]

  any questions because there's like two [TS]

  of them but alright the the the hosts [TS]

  have spoken we have a just two or three [TS]

  people ask a question every week all [TS]

  right fair enough so we are going to do [TS]

  this in quasi chronological order we [TS]

  have selected here's the thing they were [TS]

  going into the spreadsheet but I was [TS]

  afraid if I tried to sort them that it [TS]

  would like mess with the automate I [TS]

  don't know like whatever yeah we're [TS]

  gonna go from top to bottom in this [TS]

  document I think if you can't see the [TS]

  document you can't say I think it turns [TS]

  out that adding every single tweet with [TS]

  this hashtag to a giant spreadsheet and [TS]

  having no way to like filter or upvote [TS]

  or sort them at all [TS]

  might not be the best tool for this job [TS]

  turns out well I am happy for you to [TS]

  coordinate the replacement my friend [TS]

  because this seems like the lowest [TS]

  impact way to me I agree with you it is [TS]

  not ideal but it's the lowest impact [TS]

  version I got are we supposed to be [TS]

  using things like reddit is that a thing [TS]

  are we supposed yeah that is what the [TS]

  reddit's are for is no we're not [TS]

  supposed to be doing [TS]

  that's question number one answered [TS]

  okay well that said I if anyone if [TS]

  anyone on the show off the show wants to [TS]

  make replacement that's better than the [TS]

  spreadsheet I won Dorsett it would be it [TS]

  we probably should have some way to like [TS]

  AB voter down vote and some way for like [TS]

  one of the admins which would be us to [TS]

  say like I read this question work is [TS]

  not gonna answer so just get you know [TS]

  kill it yeah but like I'm like read and [TS]

  I'm not sure this needs to be publicly [TS]

  accessible whatever all right let's do [TS]

  it okay so the show notes for this [TS]

  episode may or may not exist we'll see [TS]

  what happened but because it's basically [TS]

  just a bunch of questions and answers [TS]

  and so I'm just gonna try to MC this and [TS]

  do the best I can with names with [TS]

  questions etc and we're gonna dig in [TS]

  with Gulick who asks hey why no more [TS]

  toaster reviews John the toaster reviews [TS]

  were a sponsorship believe it or not I [TS]

  know you don't remember that but like [TS]

  they weren't just like hey you want your [TS]

  toasters it actually adds four cards [TS]

  against humanity' but instead of an ad [TS]

  read they wanted me to do toaster views [TS]

  so they are not advertising [TS]

  quote-unquote advertising on this show [TS]

  anymore don't have any other campaigns [TS]

  so that's why there's no more toaster [TS]

  abused and if they did they wouldn't do [TS]

  toasters again so you're not gonna get [TS]

  any more toaster reviews and we have had [TS]

  many people suggest new things that we [TS]

  could have a series of reviews for and [TS]

  honestly none of them sounded as funny [TS]

  as that like that was such a great thing [TS]

  it had a wonderful progression it ended [TS]

  I don't think it could have continued [TS]

  indefinitely I think it was pretty much [TS]

  done when it ended and every other [TS]

  suggestion we've seen since then has [TS]

  been less funny [TS]

  so yeah we know buddy has tackled [TS]

  anything more than that and I think it [TS]

  probably won't happen it least in that [TS]

  format and those suggestions weren't [TS]

  from sponsors right that sponsorship is [TS]

  the key part of this endured like in the [TS]

  middle of a tech podcast let's talk [TS]

  about toasters for five minutes unless [TS]

  it was a sponsorship behind it yeah like [TS]

  and I think one of the one of the [TS]

  funniest things about that was like you [TS]

  know cards against humanity' and I'm we [TS]

  later came to learn that the person who [TS]

  was organizing all this there was Alex [TS]

  Cox now of due by Friday Fame so and and [TS]

  like they really [TS]

  no they weren't just sending random [TS]

  toasters like there was a clear [TS]

  progression like getting like from the [TS]

  normal ones slowly into the really [TS]

  bizarre and crazy horrible things like [TS]

  those big like breakfast stations I [TS]

  could make the egg on top and stuff like [TS]

  that like it was clearly in this [TS]

  wonderful progression that it was it was [TS]

  just so well done and you got to give [TS]

  cards against humanity' credit for that [TS]

  incredible run yeah completely agree [TS]

  with you Cathy wise writes in what [TS]

  cameras are you using now and so I will [TS]

  begin I am using the same camera that we [TS]

  got shortly before Declan was born [TS]

  that's an olympus om-d am 10 which is a [TS]

  truly terrible name it is a Micro Four [TS]

  Thirds camera I have a prime lens for it [TS]

  that is what I use generally speaking [TS]

  and if you remember from the last [TS]

  episode which in a teepee time happened [TS]

  about 15 minutes ago um I also have a [TS]

  zoom lens which I actually quite liked [TS]

  and I was going to argue with you mark [TS]

  oh when you were saying oh you can't get [TS]

  a zoom lens that you know covers all [TS]

  three parts of the triangle if you will [TS]

  but as you were talking you would [TS]

  mention well you know if you do have a [TS]

  decent zoom lens that means it's [TS]

  exorbitantly expensive and still [TS]

  probably has some other concessions and [TS]

  that is the case for me the zoom lens I [TS]

  have was like eight hundred dollars or [TS]

  something like that and otherwise it's [TS]

  very nice it's left 2.8 I think it's a [TS]

  hundred to three hundred millimeters in [TS]

  regular cameras I forget what it is in [TS]

  Micro Four Thirds but um but anyway I [TS]

  liked it a lot but it it was very [TS]

  expensive Marco what are you using I am [TS]

  mostly using my iPhone which really sad [TS]

  but that is the reality of it we do have [TS]

  the 5d Mark for now in our family like [TS]

  we actually had we had for years ever [TS]

  since they came out we had the 5d mark [TS]

  ii which came out I think in 2007 or [TS]

  2008 something like that and it was late [TS]

  2008 and so we had that since then and [TS]

  it was great but it was getting along on [TS]

  the tooth and in a lot of different ways [TS]

  and so for a little while [TS]

  I had a a Sony phase and because the the [TS]

  Sony a series of cameras first I had a [TS]

  little RX one then [TS]

  I had the a7 r2 and those are awesome [TS]

  cameras in a lot of ways but I found [TS]

  I'll make it brief because we've talked [TS]

  about this before I have found that I [TS]

  generally preferred the speed and [TS]

  handling and battery life of full-sized [TS]

  SL ARS to the little Sony mirrorless [TS]

  cameras and I think over time that will [TS]

  probably eventually change back as this [TS]

  little Sony's get better you know the a9 [TS]

  has it has now come out and it solves [TS]

  some of the problems I had it makes [TS]

  certain things worse so maybe maybe [TS]

  there will be an a7 r3 at some point or [TS]

  an a9 mark 2 or something like that that [TS]

  I might go back for but for now I'm very [TS]

  happy and in the world of big Canon SLRs [TS]

  when I need to fit fancy photos but I [TS]

  take fancy photos less and less every [TS]

  year my wife takes them much more often [TS]

  and she is way way better for [TS]

  photographer than I am [TS]

  so most of like the the good pictures of [TS]

  our family and stuff are taken by her [TS]

  and so that kind of frees me up to do [TS]

  mostly the casual stuff so that's I'm [TS]

  shooting mostly on my iPhone if I shoot [TS]

  anything at all I'm still using my sony [TS]

  a6300 i thought of trading into for [TS]

  6,500 those right up until I saw that [TS]

  the battery life was slightly worse and [TS]

  I really much did it for me because the [TS]

  battery life in 6300 is just barely [TS]

  enough like I have two batteries and on [TS]

  vacation I never needed to swap the [TS]

  batteries even a day at the ocean but I [TS]

  come close and so I don't think that can [TS]

  give up that whatever 10% battery life [TS]

  and the 600 is more expensive and so [TS]

  I've never I've never done this swap I [TS]

  stopped looking at it I'm still you know [TS]

  I was still recommending 6,500 or with [TS]

  the 6300 as long as you can deal with [TS]

  the battery life but be sure that you [TS]

  can because that's that's a big quality [TS]

  of life issue so I'm happy with that [TS]

  the only new lens I got recently was [TS]

  that is that big zoom I forget which one [TS]

  it is but it's one of the sony ones it's [TS]

  not it's not a very good line it's like [TS]

  whatever it's what is it 55 to 300 so [TS]

  it's a pretty big range again adjusting [TS]

  for what that is on a PC sensor it's not [TS]

  you know those are the full frame [TS]

  numbers still like my 50 millimeter to [TS]

  prime the best I have my own [TS]

  super-expensive zoom that [TS]

  sixteen to seventy and there's over a [TS]

  thousand dollars and that is my sort of [TS]

  general purpose lens that I keep on the [TS]

  thing it's not as good as fifty Prime [TS]

  and it doesn't zoom as long as the big [TS]

  zoom but it's kind of a nice [TS]

  all-arounder and to get a reasonable [TS]

  okay all around or a thousand bucks so [TS]

  yeah indeed also from kathy wise did the [TS]

  last show which was actually two shows [TS]

  ago if I'm doing this mental math right [TS]

  shame you into clearing out your [TS]

  application folders no it did not [TS]

  nope not only did not shame me into [TS]

  cleaning out my application folder but I [TS]

  realized after we finished that show [TS]

  that I was just looking at slash [TS]

  applications I also have a tilde slash [TS]

  applications with way more things way [TS]

  more things that's like an old an old [TS]

  school next early Mac OS ten or a thing [TS]

  of having an applications folder in your [TS]

  home directory which you could totally [TS]

  have and the OS knows about it and gives [TS]

  it the little a icon but only weird [TS]

  people do that all right moving on uh-oh [TS]

  plez asks which ad blocker do you guys [TS]

  did actually Marco choose it's not you [TS]

  guys which ad blocker did Marco choose [TS]

  I'm kind of you know I'm I I was for a [TS]

  long time so as soon as I killed peace [TS]

  within I think a month or two I stopped [TS]

  using it too and you kind of just to be [TS]

  fair and kind of felt wrong for me to [TS]

  use it and no one else did I switched to [TS]

  one blocker back then and one blocker is [TS]

  fine [TS]

  it's I don't have really much bad to say [TS]

  about it or much great to say about it [TS]

  it's just if you're gonna go with one of [TS]

  those mass-market blockers one blocker [TS]

  at the time I I looked was the best one [TS]

  I have noticed though over time more and [TS]

  more sites are broken by it and and [TS]

  there was a there was one of the iOS 11 [TS]

  betas where it was not working due to [TS]

  some limits that had changed so I went [TS]

  looking and I started using better which [TS]

  is better why it's a paid app and then [TS]

  it's like five bucks they have a Mac [TS]

  version and the iOS version which is [TS]

  nice and the Mac version can't keep [TS]

  itself up to date which is nice it's a [TS]

  little like menu bar extra thing and so [TS]

  I've been trying better out it doesn't [TS]

  seem to block as much stuff as one [TS]

  blocker but it also doesn't break as [TS]

  many sites and it seems to block enough [TS]

  that works for me and it seems to get [TS]

  regular updates so right now I'm using [TS]

  better but I've only been using it for [TS]

  maybe a few weeks at most so it's hard [TS]

  for me to really say you should [TS]

  definitely go buy this but if you're [TS]

  looking to buy something right now [TS]

  that's the one I would start with John [TS]

  any thoughts I also use one blocker for [TS]

  the record but John any thoughts I'm [TS]

  also using one blocker but occasionally [TS]

  I don't know sometimes it gets turned [TS]

  off and I don't notice for a while I [TS]

  don't have a good blocker situation [TS]

  going on I'm you know and half the time [TS]

  when things don't work I do a little [TS]

  long hold down on the reload to reload [TS]

  with that blocker some I think some [TS]

  sites get me more obnoxious one the [TS]

  Boston Globe is like you're running an [TS]

  ad blocker or I don't like you whatever [TS]

  and it's like alright well fine I gotta [TS]

  learn not to even tap those links and [TS]

  some site I think it's like the Atlantic [TS]

  or something like that is like sorry [TS]

  something is wrong and we can't serve [TS]

  you ads and so I reload without content [TS]

  blockers and it says the same thing like [TS]

  what do you want me to do things like or [TS]

  like you're running an income unit [TS]

  I'm not I'm not an income UNAM oh I'm [TS]

  just on my phone and I want to read your [TS]

  website and I turn everything off and [TS]

  you still and the worst thing is it does [TS]

  it with like a sheet that goes down over [TS]

  the actual article you just want to like [TS]

  right click and spend complete node on [TS]

  your phone it's like this is Casey [TS]

  occasionally goes off on his little [TS]

  angry rants about how he feels [TS]

  constrained by iOS I have that in small [TS]

  degrees too and it's basically whenever [TS]

  I do anything on a webpage and I realize [TS]

  I don't have access to my web developer [TS]

  tools and I feel just just completely [TS]

  crippled it's like it's just a stupid [TS]

  web it's just a just freaking did let me [TS]

  delete it like it's nice just saw the [TS]

  articles right there so here's what I do [TS]

  I this is what I literally do to find [TS]

  out if I want to actually read the [TS]

  article I do a long press to read the [TS]

  slug in the URL hoping that it's [TS]

  something sensible sometimes it's not or [TS]

  repeatedly revisit the page and tried to [TS]

  read the headline before the stupid [TS]

  thing slides down I'm like I get you [TS]

  know three words and oh it slid down and [TS]

  then every though three words and just [TS]

  to find out is this a story that I want [TS]

  to bother going to a quote unquote real [TS]

  web browser and you know looking at or [TS]

  whatever anyway websites are annoying [TS]

  you guys try way too hard to really if [TS]

  if a site makes it difficult for me to [TS]

  read an article I just close it and I [TS]

  move on because like you know what [TS]

  no matter how good of a writer you are [TS]

  or no matter how great of journalists [TS]

  you are or whatever else there's a lot [TS]

  of things to read out there on the web [TS]

  and if you're gonna make it hard for me [TS]

  to read yours I'm just not going to read [TS]

  it and that might be like if if you have [TS]

  a site with like an anti ad blocker [TS]

  blocker thing if you won't let me read [TS]

  the site with an ad blocker that's a [TS]

  fair game I I respect that decision of [TS]

  yours but that means I'm not going to [TS]

  trim off my blocker I'm just not going [TS]

  to read it like that's but if that's the [TS]

  option you presented then fine that's [TS]

  what I'm saying like I'm I'm willing [TS]

  like oh you have an ad bugger like fine [TS]

  I will turn off my ad blocker I'll turn [TS]

  it off I'll be likely reload without [TS]

  content blockers Here I am I'm ready to [TS]

  see your thing it's not being that a [TS]

  paywall not like they want me to sign up [TS]

  subscribe or pay money like there is no [TS]

  the site is just broken is what I'm [TS]

  saying this is a pretty well on site [TS]

  maybe it's the Atlantic or whatever it's [TS]

  like I'm doing everything you want me to [TS]

  do turn off all my blockers turn them [TS]

  off in settings not be an incognito mode [TS]

  there's no pay wall you're not asking me [TS]

  to sign up or subscribe you just every [TS]

  time I try to load it's like sorry I [TS]

  couldn't figure out something and I'm [TS]

  gonna put a big slide a big animated [TS]

  sheet down over the article that's [TS]

  perfectly good bit on there's no reader [TS]

  mode for people asking there's no you [TS]

  know websites man like do you ever [TS]

  testing the iPhone it's a popular [TS]

  platform we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  Warby Parker making buying glasses [TS]

  online easy and risk-free get your free [TS]

  home tryouts today at Warby Parker comm [TS]

  slash ATP Warby Parker believes that [TS]

  eyeglasses [TS]

  should not cost as much as a phone they [TS]

  offer prescription eyeglasses and [TS]

  sunglasses starting at just 95 dollars [TS]

  including the lenses they make buying [TS]

  glasses online easy and risk-free with [TS]

  their home Tryon program this allows you [TS]

  to order five pairs of frames and you [TS]

  get to try them on for five days and [TS]

  there's no obligation to buy it ships to [TS]

  you for free and it includes a free [TS]

  prepaid return label and all you got to [TS]

  do is pick out what you want and they'll [TS]

  send you this box a home try ons you [TS]

  can't rhyme you can show people in your [TS]

  life you can look in the mirror you can [TS]

  take pictures whatever you want to do to [TS]

  decide what's right for you and there's [TS]

  no obligation you don't have to buy any [TS]

  of them but I bet you will because [TS]

  they're really high-quality glasses my [TS]

  wife has a bunch of these and they [TS]

  are just wonderful and they come with [TS]

  great accessories a nice hard case a [TS]

  cleaning cloth and for every pair you [TS]

  buy a pairs distributed through robot [TS]

  vision charities to someone in need [TS]

  where we Parker really believes in [TS]

  giving back to the world and they really [TS]

  make great glasses and they're helping [TS]

  the world - with these charities get a [TS]

  free home try on program today you will [TS]

  be shocked how nice these glasses are [TS]

  they're trendy designs they have anti [TS]

  glare and anti scratch coatings and they [TS]

  even have a home Tryon companion feature [TS]

  which allows you to use their fuck their [TS]

  iPhone app to preview how the glasses [TS]

  will look on your face you can stitch it [TS]

  into a video you can share it with [TS]

  friends to help you pick a winner even [TS]

  before you get the frames mailed to you [TS]

  in the home Tryon program you can [TS]

  preview how they're gonna look on you [TS]

  and then you can educate your guesses [TS]

  that way it's so they make it so easy to [TS]

  buy glasses online and the value here is [TS]

  incredible all this starts at just 95 [TS]

  dollars and they also offer sunglasses [TS]

  non-prescription starting at just 95 [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  prescription starting at just 175 [TS]

  dollars just like their eyeglasses their [TS]

  sunglasses are also available through [TS]

  their home Tryon program they have [TS]

  premium polarized lenses that are [TS]

  scratch resistant and provide a 100% UV [TS]

  protection so check that today we read [TS]

  Parker offers such a great value suck [TS]

  great glasses for starting at just 95 [TS]

  dollars go to worry Parker comm slash [TS]

  ATP to get that free home try on KITT [TS]

  started and you'll see for yourself how [TS]

  great they are [TS]

  thank you very much to Warby Parker for [TS]

  sponsoring our show alright Jack Johnson [TS]

  yes from New York City apparently has [TS]

  two questions that are related do you [TS]

  think it would be a good move for iTunes [TS]

  to offer a higher resolution audio file [TS]

  for download or streaming and then kind [TS]

  of tangentially related do you think [TS]

  part of the HEV C strategy is to set the [TS]

  groundwork for 4k streaming I will say [TS]

  that I don't think anyone really cares [TS]

  except Marco about high resolution audio [TS]

  coming out of iTunes and I don't I don't [TS]

  even care about that I'm surprised so as [TS]

  for all my like audio file nests when it [TS]

  comes to like selecting headphones and [TS]

  stuff I have never been swayed by like [TS]

  higher than CD quality audio files or [TS]

  lossless compression schemes I know a [TS]

  lot of people like these a lot [TS]

  think they can hear a difference I don't [TS]

  think you can but I know for sure that I [TS]

  can't I hold on though hold on how do [TS]

  you download your Phish concerts mp3 [TS]

  they offer flack option I am stunned [TS]

  that's what I assumed you were gonna say [TS]

  no they offer flack for a few more [TS]

  dollars and there is so I have bought so [TS]

  quick quick background here fish sells [TS]

  all their live shows legally through [TS]

  their own site like a few hours after [TS]

  the show's end and you can buy a season [TS]

  pass and you can you can basically have [TS]

  have downloads and for sure they do for [TS]

  like a whole tour so I do this I've been [TS]

  doing this since something like 2009 or [TS]

  so and there was one tour early on that [TS]

  I bought in flack i pre-ordered it oh my [TS]

  gosh let me get the flag verge and I'll [TS]

  see if it's something different and it [TS]

  was such a pain because like first of [TS]

  all iTunes didn't support flack at the [TS]

  time I think I think it actually is [TS]

  finally having that in High Sierra I [TS]

  think but it didn't the time and and so [TS]

  I had all these massive files that first [TS]

  of all I didn't want to ever delete them [TS]

  because like when I paid for these [TS]

  massive files so there's taking up ton [TS]

  spacing the harder that I still had to [TS]

  transcode them to make them actually [TS]

  playable in anything I did play the [TS]

  original ones or there was C I think I I [TS]

  think one one time I transferred them to [TS]

  a lack or maybe I'd download maybe they [TS]

  sold them as a lack I forget so I did [TS]

  for a group of them transfer them and [TS]

  play them as lossless files as a lack [TS]

  files in iTunes and I just I couldn't [TS]

  tell the difference at all and there's [TS]

  there's lots of again there's lots of [TS]

  people who claim they can hit they can [TS]

  hear a difference there's a whole lot of [TS]

  tests that have been done that I've [TS]

  shown mostly otherwise but this is one [TS]

  of those things kind of like my [TS]

  subwoofer thing from last episode of [TS]

  like I do things my way and some people [TS]

  consider them insufficient or some [TS]

  people want better things and I think [TS]

  I'm just I don't I can't care anymore [TS]

  like if you want to do things your own [TS]

  way if you want to get massive files [TS]

  with you know 24 96 or 24:1 need to [TS]

  sample rates and if you want to have [TS]

  lossless encoding and you want your [TS]

  albums to take up a gig each fine it's [TS]

  hard drive space is cheap do whatever [TS]

  you want well I could not possibly agree [TS]

  with you more but I was expecting to [TS]

  snicker as you told me about how flack [TS]

  is the only answer so kudos to you sir I [TS]

  am stunned do you want audio that's [TS]

  lower quality and has like hiss and pop [TS]

  in it [TS]

  here we go something for Casey like I [TS]

  don't I think it's not the right move [TS]

  for Apple to offer hi Rosa no audio but [TS]

  if Apple ever gets to the point I don't [TS]

  think they will because again streaming [TS]

  is what everyone cares about now is [TS]

  Marco pointed out earlier slash on the [TS]

  last show but it would be a way to make [TS]

  the Ferrari you have purchasable down a [TS]

  little music hey can we charge more [TS]

  money for something that people perceive [TS]

  as better the answer is yes you can you [TS]

  so lossless or a higher bitrate or some [TS]

  combination thereof and the very small [TS]

  number of people who think that is [TS]

  worthwhile for them will buy it doesn't [TS]

  really matter if anyone can you hear the [TS]

  difference only matters whether they'll [TS]

  give you money in exchange for these [TS]

  goods which are able to be produced so I [TS]

  wouldn't totally rule it out I don't [TS]

  think it's some Apple needs to do at all [TS]

  but someday if buying music at all [TS]

  downloadable continues to be a thing [TS]

  some smart person in marketing may say [TS]

  we're leaving money on the table by not [TS]

  selling high-resolution audio and [TS]

  they'll just do it and charge more money [TS]

  for it and a couple people will buy it [TS]

  and it'll be a tiny bump in a graph and [TS]

  someone will get a good performance [TS]

  review yeah but anyway the thing is like [TS]

  there is demand for this there is [TS]

  absolutely demand for higher than CD [TS]

  quality sample rates and everything and [TS]

  higher bitrate [TS]

  format or more advanced formats or [TS]

  lossless formats there is definitely [TS]

  demand for that like most people don't [TS]

  even know like people who listen to the [TS]

  show probably unaware quite how many [TS]

  options there are for what basically [TS]

  amount to fancy iPods that sell today [TS]

  for like $400 or more that like their [TS]

  like their the Sony makes a bunch of [TS]

  them they're basically little you know [TS]

  pocketable portable audio players the [TS]

  you know size like a deck of cards like [TS]

  that kind of size class that have a [TS]

  headphone just like the old iPod Classic [TS]

  that play these super high bitrate files [TS]

  like they could actually output them and [TS]

  decode them with a fancy DAC and [TS]

  everything else [TS]

  this market exists people buy these [TS]

  things for like $400 but not a lot of [TS]

  people and there are streaming services [TS]

  things like Neil Young's paano things [TS]

  like even tidal which is a fairly [TS]

  decently sized streaming service now [TS]

  like streaming services that IV that [TS]

  have either been or even music sales [TS]

  service I don't think paano even was [TS]

  streaming I think it only sold stuff if [TS]

  it even still exists but anyway there [TS]

  are services that we've Excel you high [TS]

  bitrate music legally or that will let [TS]

  you stream them like tidal and they use [TS]

  these things as they use the quality as [TS]

  their main selling point but they don't [TS]

  really ever become mass-market they [TS]

  don't really ever get anywhere off the [TS]

  ground really the only reason title has [TS]

  gotten anywhere is because it has had [TS]

  exclusives like they've had exclusive [TS]

  album releases on there other than that [TS]

  they were like when they were when they [TS]

  were really only about the music quality [TS]

  they got nowhere the fact is most people [TS]

  don't care and most people don't need to [TS]

  care because for most of these gains [TS]

  there actually is no perceptible [TS]

  difference to most people so while Apple [TS]

  could sell high bitrate songs and stuff [TS]

  that would just be appealing to a very [TS]

  very small market in what is already a [TS]

  declining market which is the market of [TS]

  music sales so the second part of this [TS]

  about HEV C being part of 4k yep 100% [TS]

  like the 4k video is bigger HEV see is a [TS]

  higher efficiency codec it supports [TS]

  higher resolutions for like for video [TS]

  not just the images with the he thing [TS]

  anyway yes it's 100% part of that and [TS]

  that's why we're gonna see a 4k Apple TV [TS]

  and a TVC encoded content that plays on [TS]

  it I agree [TS]

  Adam sac writes in to say and this is [TS]

  the first in theme that I noticed which [TS]

  was try to get the ATP host to hate each [TS]

  other so he writes in if you had to use [TS]

  the daily text setup of one of your [TS]

  co-hosts for a week instead of your own [TS]

  whose devices would you choose and I [TS]

  will start off and I would probably [TS]

  choose Marcos because it is in general [TS]

  most similar to my setup [TS]

  obviously there are differences but most [TS]

  similar to mine and he has some pretty [TS]

  kick-ass headphones so win-win everyone [TS]

  would pick [TS]

  Margot's including Marco because Marcos [TS]

  yeah I would pick cases because [TS]

  non-retina sorry John you lose you [TS]

  shoulda picked my wife's you could pick [TS]

  the 5k iMac it's the one without image [TS]

  retention yeah that's actually better [TS]

  than mine that's funny [TS]

  Ian Marin rates in to say and I don't [TS]

  think I selected this as one to answer [TS]

  but I have a feeling I know who did Ivan [TS]

  Inouye to cord when's the ideal time to [TS]

  replace it it's at about eighty thousand [TS]

  miles no maintenance issues to date John [TS]

  did you perhaps star this as a question [TS]

  to me I did so the right time probably [TS]

  the best time to replace this Accord was [TS]

  right now or last year because the the [TS]

  best time to get an accord is at the [TS]

  tail end of a generation when they've [TS]

  worked all the kinks out of it and they [TS]

  have we always get like the special [TS]

  edition even though you don't get the [TS]

  special edition like they know how to [TS]

  build that generation of car has the [TS]

  most doodads and and you know nice [TS]

  things added to it and they figured out [TS]

  low and the first model to put the USB [TS]

  port in the wrong place or you know [TS]

  fiddle things like that's the time to [TS]

  get it the the first car versed in the [TS]

  new Accord I think the new Accord is is [TS]

  uglier than the old one but it does have [TS]

  a better infotainment system so that's [TS]

  the other time you can get us like the [TS]

  excitement of getting in on the first [TS]

  car and in your generation but in [TS]

  general when your court starts getting [TS]

  to be around 10 years old I feel like [TS]

  that's the time to if you want to have [TS]

  any chance of having any reasonable [TS]

  trade in on it or private sale whatever [TS]

  you want to do with it don't wait until [TS]

  the car is basically worthless or it's [TS]

  worth like a couple hundred bucks wait [TS]

  till it's you know it's still a couple [TS]

  thousand dollars for the value in your [TS]

  car it's before crap starts breaking [TS]

  like you said you know is 80,000 miles [TS]

  nothing as nothing as issued with it [TS]

  it's a no wait right it's getting to be [TS]

  around 10 years time to replace you know [TS]

  just as a point of comparison I pretty [TS]

  much agree with you but uh when we [TS]

  bought the Volvo we traded in Aaron's [TS]

  2007 Maz [TS]

  six which had a little bit shy of 80,000 [TS]

  miles on it and as I believe I talked [TS]

  about on the show was pretty much a tank [TS]

  like that thing almost never had any [TS]

  problems and we got three thousand [TS]

  dollars in change for it I think [TS]

  Carmack's offered us three grand so it [TS]

  was not worthless by any means but I [TS]

  agree with you John that this is the [TS]

  kind of edge of the cliff I think and [TS]

  you go too much further and you're gonna [TS]

  fall right off that cliff [TS]

  Marco any thoughts on this nope [TS]

  good talk Joe Sullivan writes in is [TS]

  there anything that siracusa is in favor [TS]

  of or likes without any caveats [TS]

  reservations or asterisks and I have to [TS]

  I have to congratulate Joe Sullivan [TS]

  because there are about a million ways [TS]

  to ask this question like a big fat jerk [TS]

  and this was not one of them so well [TS]

  done that's a great question put too [TS]

  many things at the end of this question [TS]

  caveat reservations or asterisks well [TS]

  caveat you can I know what that means [TS]

  reservations mean it's all getting over [TS]

  they asterisk me like Oh something else [TS]

  in addition that you want to say about [TS]

  like the answer question there is [TS]

  nothing nothing so perfect come on [TS]

  that's right things that I really like [TS]

  but if press to say hey you really like [TS]

  Kiki's Delivery Service is there [TS]

  anything wrong with that movie well I [TS]

  mean cause it's actually probably [TS]

  closest like I can if pressed I can come [TS]

  up with asterisks for Kiki's Delivery [TS]

  Service sure of course you can right [TS]

  there is nothing is gonna be absolutely [TS]

  perfect if you can't if you literally [TS]

  can't think of anything wrong with it [TS]

  then you probably don't understand the [TS]

  thing but that doesn't mean like these [TS]

  are my favorite things in the whole [TS]

  world like overwhelmingly everything I [TS]

  feel about these is that they're great [TS]

  right so I think that qualifies them and [TS]

  I at that reasonable definition of is [TS]

  there anything that you are like without [TS]

  any caveats reservation like if someone [TS]

  says hey you know I need a good movie to [TS]

  watch and I say well if you've never [TS]

  seen the Empire Strikes Back watch watch [TS]

  Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back I'm [TS]

  not gonna add reservations [TS]

  oh but also here are some reservations [TS]

  about the Empire Strikes Back I'm gonna [TS]

  add no reservations there's no nothing [TS]

  to say about it so I would say that [TS]

  qualifies the only definitions are the [TS]

  pedantic one and which nothing qualifies [TS]

  for anybody or the reasonable definition [TS]

  in which this [TS]

  kinds of things that I really want to [TS]

  hear me things that really like listen [TS]

  to being comfortable very very often on [TS]

  that show are talking about things that [TS]

  really like you know for the video game [TS]

  journey television shows movies books we [TS]

  do we do talk about asterisks if you [TS]

  want to call it that but it doesn't mean [TS]

  we don't love them so I think this [TS]

  question is not a good question it's [TS]

  more than faster more than a reservation [TS]

  because the answer it got completing [TS]

  about the question I remember that's [TS]

  true of anybody like is there anything [TS]

  even ask you that you chose it is there [TS]

  anything you two like uncritically [TS]

  without caveat to reservation or [TS]

  asterisks I think if you're honest with [TS]

  yourselves you have to say that's not [TS]

  true for either of you either I mean I [TS]

  think the checker muffin up a number of [TS]

  good options your kids your wife your [TS]

  dog long island journey [TS]

  those are BS questions so you have [TS]

  reservations about your wife and your [TS]

  kids don't say you do ice cream you if [TS]

  you are if you think your spouse does [TS]

  not have any asterisks you are either [TS]

  newly married or willfully naive because [TS]

  everybody has asterisks everybody say [TS]

  yeah but they're always asked sounds [TS]

  like the tiniest little thing and now I [TS]

  was like could something be a little bit [TS]

  different of course of course always I [TS]

  don't even know where to go from here [TS]

  like and especially kids like no my [TS]

  child is perfect yes lots of parents [TS]

  think that hmm maybe a little bit less [TS]

  screaming like not you know like like [TS]

  three seconds less screaming in a [TS]

  lifetime of screaming would you accept [TS]

  that yes maybe if that poo hadn't [TS]

  exploded out the side of the diaper that [TS]

  one time when I had a new car would you [TS]

  always an asterisk so now you don't love [TS]

  your children because you didn't want [TS]

  the putu come out the side of the diaper [TS]

  and go all over your new car seats oh [TS]

  that's amazing [TS]

  we gotta move on otherwise we're never [TS]

  going to get rid get through this let's [TS]

  see what was next I have so many [TS]

  freaking tabs open I must be John [TS]

  siracusa Eduard level writes in what [TS]

  podcast you currently listened to and [TS]

  would recommend I listen to a ton of [TS]

  podcast but there's a couple that I [TS]

  would recommend the aforementioned due [TS]

  by Friday is excellent [TS]

  I will pitch one [TS]

  my or a couple of my co-host shows I [TS]

  think that reconcilable differences is [TS]

  phenomenal and so is under the radar but [TS]

  I will also pitch a couple others very [TS]

  quickly if you wanted to hear a smart [TS]

  person talk about conservative politics [TS]

  which you may or may not want the pen [TS]

  the ben shapiro show is very interesting [TS]

  and very good i don't listen every [TS]

  episode by any means it's like 45 [TS]

  minutes and it's pretty much every [TS]

  weekday but when i have time all and i [TS]

  usually about once a week I'll catch it [TS]

  and I typically deeply deeply disagree [TS]

  with the things he thinks but [TS]

  nevertheless it is interesting I'll also [TS]

  say that wheel bearings is neutral by [TS]

  people who actually know what they're [TS]

  talking about we want to listen to that [TS]

  yeah I know right [TS]

  and then 20,000 Hertz is also very good [TS]

  think 99% invisible but specifically [TS]

  around sound so those are just some [TS]

  selections from my extraordinarily long [TS]

  list of podcasts that I listened to John [TS]

  since I've been tagging Marco more first [TS]

  more often let's let's go to you next [TS]

  I'm strong recommendation for Roderick [TS]

  on the line which I love flophouse [TS]

  obviously my my old probably oldest [TS]

  recommendation that show is still going [TS]

  obviously hello internet in cortex the [TS]

  pair of shows both involving CGP grey [TS]

  those are great [TS]

  Oh what else we got I'm scrum scrolling [TS]

  through overcast to look at I have way [TS]

  too many things and overcast was [TS]

  scrolling through their debug which I [TS]

  don't know if it's still ongoing but the [TS]

  back catalog of debug is great tech show [TS]

  where they talk to lots of important [TS]

  people in tech you should definitely [TS]

  check that out and you know there's tons [TS]

  more but I think it's a good place to [TS]

  get started Marco you guys have already [TS]

  mentioned pretty much everything I was [TS]

  going to say you know the usuals due by [TS]

  Friday hello Internet cortex roderick on [TS]

  the line as far as in the tech world [TS]

  again you've covered many good ones I [TS]

  would also add upgrade unreal AFM with [TS]

  Jason snow my curly that is probably my [TS]

  favorite tech show it's it's just really [TS]

  really great so yeah otherwise [TS]

  he does pretty much covered it yeah none [TS]

  in API you know and and what I love [TS]

  about I mean I could talk about podcast [TS]

  forever [TS]

  so I'll try not to but what I love about [TS]

  this is that none of us mentioned shows [TS]

  that were like the biggest podcast in [TS]

  the world Mendon MPI probably the [TS]

  biggest one we mentioned but when people [TS]

  think podcasting they so often will make [TS]

  an assumption like everybody listen to [TS]

  this American life where it's you know [TS]

  stuff like that but the fact is there [TS]

  isn't any podcast out there that [TS]

  everybody listens to and there and like [TS]

  the the the world of mass market or very [TS]

  very popular podcasts is still actually [TS]

  fairly diversified and there's a lot of [TS]

  people who listen to a lot of podcasts [TS]

  who don't listen to any of those big [TS]

  ones so this is it's part of what I love [TS]

  about podcasting is like it's so [TS]

  incredibly diverse and specialized that [TS]

  like I can look at so many podcasts and [TS]

  there and there there are so many [TS]

  amazing podcasts out there but I don't [TS]

  need to spend any time listening to [TS]

  things that aren't like really [TS]

  interesting to me and that aren't [TS]

  specialized to my interests because [TS]

  there's so much that is and that's just [TS]

  a part of what I love about podcasting [TS]

  and and you know my over cast list is [TS]

  huge I subscribed tons of things I was [TS]

  trying to give recommendations that [TS]

  maybe people might not go for like up [TS]

  you know I didn't recommend the talk [TS]

  show cuz I assume you know that show [TS]

  exists that it's good and you should [TS]

  totally listen to it like it didn't [TS]

  recommend this American life cuz I mean [TS]

  you know that show exists and it's good [TS]

  and you should listen to it right trying [TS]

  to find these slightly more obscure [TS]

  corners but that's the other thing I [TS]

  like about podcasts I subscribe to way [TS]

  more podcasts than I then I faithfully [TS]

  listen to like I'm not a podcast [TS]

  completionists I have tons of [TS]

  descriptions a few shows I keep up with [TS]

  very religiously but a lot of shows I [TS]

  let age and then go through five [TS]

  episodes at a time and a lot of shows I [TS]

  just pick and choose from that's the [TS]

  best thing not only do you not have to [TS]

  like oh there's only five podcasts that [TS]

  everyone listens to if you find a [TS]

  podcast that you really like and [TS]

  sometimes you find a podcast and you [TS]

  only have to listen to the episodes that [TS]

  you really like like even like being [TS]

  comparable like if they do an episode [TS]

  reviewing something you don't care about [TS]

  skip that episode like they're [TS]

  standalone but they're you know they do [TS]

  a thing about TV show that you didn't [TS]

  watch you're not interested in fine like [TS]

  just pick and choose that's the beauty [TS]

  of podcasting visuals in every episode [TS]

  of our show obviously oh yeah of course [TS]

  I mean how could you [TS]

  regular language writes in what do you [TS]

  think about the current state of Swift I [TS]

  would like to hear what John and Marco [TS]

  have to say about si I guess Casey a [TS]

  rant about Swift opens oh I think [TS]

  there's new lines missing here [TS]

  basically what do you guys think and [TS]

  maybe me talk about Swift open source so [TS]

  I will I guess round this out at the end [TS]

  so let's start with Marco and then go to [TS]

  John honestly I don't pay that much [TS]

  attention to what's going on in Swift I [TS]

  know I'm supposed to I know I should [TS]

  overcast contains some Swift code that I [TS]

  added you know to try cheaper stuff the [TS]

  language and and stuff but I'm still [TS]

  writing most couldn't you have to see [TS]

  and it's it's not really out of a [TS]

  judgment of Swift so much as it's just a [TS]

  pragmatism that I I still don't see a [TS]

  lot of motivation for you to switch I [TS]

  recognize that I should but I in [TS]

  practice don't John I would never picked [TS]

  it seems like it's chugging along I I do [TS]

  keep up with the things that are going [TS]

  on and it it's it still got you know [TS]

  challenges but it's making slow steady [TS]

  progress so I think Swift is moving in [TS]

  the right direction at varying speeds [TS]

  and we have to say about si no no that's [TS]

  that's not see the language I think [TS]

  basically the question was what do you [TS]

  guys have to say about Swift and what do [TS]

  I have to say specifically about Swift [TS]

  open-source so yeah I think your summary [TS]

  of Swift is good and in brief and I [TS]

  stick by our stand by it [TS]

  Swift open source is a double-edged [TS]

  sword I think I think that the problem [TS]

  that I have aspect of Swift open source [TS]

  is that it seems like a lot of the [TS]

  really really really academic like I'm [TS]

  trying to think of a way to say this [TS]

  without being pejorative but people who [TS]

  are much more interested in the academic [TS]

  side of programming languages seem to be [TS]

  the ones that are most vocal and most [TS]

  interested to participate on like the [TS]

  mailing lists and things of that nature [TS]

  where someone like myself which is not [TS]

  to say I'm like at the same caliber as a [TS]

  super academic but someone like myself [TS]

  who I like to think of as a reasonably [TS]

  smart guy but I don't really have any [TS]

  interest in like following the [TS]

  intricacies of what's going on in the [TS]

  mailing list I don't really have any [TS]

  interest in argue [TS]

  about you know different pitches that [TS]

  have been made via the mailing list I [TS]

  just want to get crap done man and to me [TS]

  I feel like swift open source it feels [TS]

  like from an outsider's point of view [TS]

  that maybe it could use a little more [TS]

  Stern direction from Apple to prevent [TS]

  the kind of meandering and the kind of I [TS]

  don't know language features that I find [TS]

  to be really really silly and not [TS]

  terribly helpful for actually just [TS]

  shipping products and that's where I [TS]

  kind of get a little frustrated but [TS]

  that's easy it's easy for me to throw [TS]

  stones from outside the glass house [TS]

  right and and really if I wanted to [TS]

  effect change what I should be doing is [TS]

  participating on the door mailing list [TS]

  that I'm lamenting I'm not sure you [TS]

  should be doing that because I'm going [TS]

  to put this out there language design is [TS]

  a different skill than being a [TS]

  programmer and using that language is [TS]

  entirely appropriate that the lists [TS]

  where people are designing the languages [TS]

  looks weird to someone who's like I just [TS]

  want to write my programs like you make [TS]

  the language and give it to me like they [TS]

  don't need to cross that word I think [TS]

  swift evolution I've seen a lot of [TS]

  languages I'm mailing lists and so [TS]

  evolution is above average believe it or [TS]

  not and maybe if you look in the outside [TS]

  this is the first time you follow the [TS]

  development of any language you can look [TS]

  like dominated by academics and weird [TS]

  and chaotic and a lot of bike shedding [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things there [TS]

  they are above average and you know just [TS]

  coming so early to say look we're gonna [TS]

  have releases we're gonna exclude things [TS]

  from them and then you know like there's [TS]

  gonna be people discussing things enlist [TS]

  even though they say they're excluded [TS]

  from Swift serious but for like but in [TS]

  general I think they're pretty well [TS]

  behaved and I do want essentially [TS]

  language nerds or people like people [TS]

  with the skill the language designs [TS]

  skill and you know RPG parlance or [TS]

  whatever to be designing the language [TS]

  rather than having a bunch of people who [TS]

  just wanted to use the language throwing [TS]

  out the first idea that pops into their [TS]

  head that I think might make their [TS]

  they're like beginning language [TS]

  designers like I've been programming for [TS]

  20 years and I think a language would be [TS]

  cool how many languages have you design [TS]

  have you tried doing that what does it [TS]

  actually turn out to be so I like I like [TS]

  language design as a separate skill [TS]

  being developed among people who just do [TS]

  that and seeing them do their thing [TS]

  definitely does look weird [TS]

  I endure I also and part of why I have [TS]

  not adopted Swift more is that the idea [TS]

  of of investing my time into a language [TS]

  that is still very much a beta is a huge [TS]

  turnoff for me like I I do not I have no [TS]

  interest in participating in the design [TS]

  of this language I have no interest in [TS]

  beta testing this language for anybody [TS]

  in the same way like I don't want to [TS]

  beta test brakes on my car you know like [TS]

  I want to get the final brakes thank you [TS]

  and I want them to work and I don't have [TS]

  to I don't want to ever have to think [TS]

  about them or I never wanted to flick [TS]

  out or fail or cause me undo undo work [TS]

  it sound like a test loan or you don't [TS]

  want a bid that's the brakes that set a [TS]

  new firmware for your brakes last night [TS]

  while you were asleep like for me like I [TS]

  like especially like every summer when [TS]

  during beta season when like all the new [TS]

  stuff comes out and I see all the iOS [TS]

  developers I know complaining about [TS]

  something that Swift broke I am very [TS]

  happy to not be very reliant on it right [TS]

  now [TS]

  and you know because the fact is like [TS]

  I'm in a different developer I don't [TS]

  have a lot of time I like and and the [TS]

  time I have to spend coding I have to [TS]

  spend it very wisely and the most [TS]

  frustrating thing for me I which is true [TS]

  of many people is fighting with my tools [TS]

  and so any language or part of my [TS]

  developer tool chain I'm going to try to [TS]

  minimize reasons that I would have to [TS]

  fight with it or the amount of work [TS]

  that's going to require from me to use [TS]

  and Swift while it does look like a you [TS]

  know a fairly I'm sure it will be good [TS]

  once it's done for me right now the [TS]

  reality of using Swift is still a lot of [TS]

  overhead and a lot of dealing with the [TS]

  changes as they come and dealing with [TS]

  weird things breaking sometimes and I [TS]

  just want to wait till it's all settled [TS]

  before I invest heavily into it because [TS]

  I have zero interest in being an early [TS]

  adopter for things like this all I want [TS]

  is for it to work so I can spend my time [TS]

  in other ways you know I will say that [TS]

  there are certainly annoyances and and I [TS]

  can't legitimately argue with anything [TS]

  that you've said but it feels like it's [TS]

  gotten a lot better over the last you [TS]

  know six to 12 months say oh yeah and [TS]

  and and the dabbling of done on the [TS]

  Xcode 9 beta by and large [TS]

  it's like it's a beta of course but by [TS]

  and large it looks really solid and so I [TS]

  think and of course you would say this [TS]

  every year right now is the time to dive [TS]

  in Marco it's all better than it ever [TS]

  was and you know it's the Year Linux on [TS]

  the desktop right it'll always be better [TS]

  the next year but it is not nearly as [TS]

  scary now as it once was but there's [TS]

  still dragons back there from time to [TS]

  time and I would also love to use Swift [TS]

  on the server like that's that's one [TS]

  thing that has me very interested in [TS]

  learning it because like the idea of [TS]

  learning one language that I can use in [TS]

  both places is incredibly attractive to [TS]

  me like that because that would be a [TS]

  great use of you know if I'm gonna learn [TS]

  more languages and master more [TS]

  frameworks being able to use the same [TS]

  one in both places basically makes it [TS]

  twice as valuable to me so I would love [TS]

  that [TS]

  but it's all just so early and it to [TS]

  have basics like concurrency not worked [TS]

  out yet is like I just I need well yes [TS]

  and go right like it's just as worked [TS]

  out as the distant objective-c because [TS]

  you still have GCD and whatnot it's just [TS]

  that well I'm what I'm saying server I [TS]

  mean Linux though well ok fair but it my [TS]

  point is just that like concurrency I [TS]

  agree with you should be worked out any [TS]

  much better way but it's not like we're [TS]

  handcuffed now it's just that it's the [TS]

  existing GCD API [TS]

  well again maybe not on the server but [TS]

  at least on on the client it's the [TS]

  existing GCD API and it actually is a [TS]

  lot nicer in a lot of ways but but there [TS]

  should be something like you know [TS]

  everyone is calling for C sharps [TS]

  async/await [TS]

  so we'll see what happens we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by Squarespace start [TS]

  building your website today at [TS]

  squarespace.com and enter code ATP at [TS]

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  Squarespace sites are so easy to use [TS]

  it's kind of a wonder why anybody does [TS]

  anything else and it's kind of a one-way [TS]

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  you finally after hearing all these [TS]

  podcast ads decide to finally try it out [TS]

  most people don't go back to the old [TS]

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  going down and all these things you [TS]

  don't to worry about Squarespace and the [TS]

  best thing about Squarespace for nerds [TS]

  like us a lot [TS]

  times if you're if you're the nerd in [TS]

  your family oh and people people need a [TS]

  website they will ask you to make it for [TS]

  them and that's one thing you do not [TS]

  want you don't want to be in that [TS]

  business because Squarespace is so good [TS]

  at it you can just tell them here go to [TS]

  Squarespace if they won't do it set it [TS]

  up for them go to Squarespace com use [TS]

  code ATP for 10% off your first purchase [TS]

  and set it up for them you can hand it [TS]

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  you can now help yourself they can do [TS]

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  the design themselves and if they need [TS]

  any help they go to Squarespace for [TS]

  support not you it's all included it's [TS]

  wonderful support you can host all kinds [TS]

  of sites on Squarespace blogs portfolios [TS]

  even stores podcasts stuff that's a [TS]

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  built in it can do so much so check it [TS]

  out today go to Squarespace com whether [TS]

  it's a site for you or a site that [TS]

  someone's asking you to make for them [TS]

  get yourself out of the website hosting [TS]

  business and let Squarespace do it [TS]

  because it's easier the result is better [TS]

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  are free check it out today at [TS]

  squarespace.com make sure you use offer [TS]

  code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

  purchase [TS]

  Squarespace make your next move David [TS]

  Klein writes about two years ago you [TS]

  discuss women in tech and podcasting and [TS]

  even exchange hosts how do you feel [TS]

  today regarding women in tech this is a [TS]

  very good question which stresses me out [TS]

  because I feel like I'm gonna step on [TS]

  some landmine here but that being said I [TS]

  feel like we have made sweet not the [TS]

  three of us like we as a as a community [TS]

  have made a fair bit of positive strides [TS]

  but still have a almost equal amount of [TS]

  improvement left to make and I feel like [TS]

  people are paying a lot more attention [TS]

  to the fact that there's so much sexism [TS]

  in tech and it's such a crummy place to [TS]

  be a woman and I think the easiest [TS]

  example of this is people like regular [TS]

  people [TS]

  knowing what a cesspool uber is slash [TS]

  was and regular people deciding to use [TS]

  lyft instead of uber which quick aside I [TS]

  used lyft [TS]

  in Chicago when Aaron and I were on our [TS]

  10-year wedding anniversary and it was [TS]

  great [TS]

  worked great no different than uber and [TS]

  so I highly recommend it but anyway so [TS]

  we still have a ton of room like it's [TS]

  one of those things where we have taken [TS]

  like the tiniest littlest step forward [TS]

  but there's still like 85,000 miles in [TS]

  front of us so it's almost imperceptible [TS]

  Marco I I basically agree I mean I I [TS]

  unfortunately am NOT an expert in this [TS]

  topic you know a few few men and tech [TS]

  are you know there's that's not a [TS]

  coincidence [TS]

  um it's it's a huge problem and we still [TS]

  have so so long to go but we are talking [TS]

  about it now way more than it used to be [TS]

  talked about so even though I I don't [TS]

  have the knowledge to know whether it's [TS]

  actually making progress really I have [TS]

  no idea [TS]

  I would guess - making slow progress but [TS]

  we are talking about it and a lot more [TS]

  people ourselves included are much more [TS]

  conscientious of this being an issue [TS]

  than we used to be and that has to help [TS]

  - and there's obviously a lot more that [TS]

  we can all do and that we need to do all [TS]

  do but I do think that awareness is way [TS]

  better than it was and that will slowly [TS]

  start helping this problem yeah that's [TS]

  like the first stage of all these things [TS]

  is the very long process of getting [TS]

  people to be aware that this is an issue [TS]

  at all what's the issue what is the [TS]

  problem is this the thing that exists [TS]

  and that takes a really long time it's [TS]

  kind of depressing to me because my [TS]

  childhood like I felt like the whole the [TS]

  one of the previous names of a larger [TS]

  version this that the women's lib [TS]

  movement back in the 60s and 70s and [TS]

  even to the 80s was also in that stage [TS]

  of like hey raise awareness like women's [TS]

  liberation what do women do need to be [TS]

  liberated from what do you mean right I [TS]

  felt like we went through that and and [TS]

  then like that knowledge was lost [TS]

  somehow and now here we are back in the [TS]

  tech sector which is a microcosm of the [TS]

  larger world is like do we have to [TS]

  relearn that sexism exists apparently [TS]

  the answer is yes and we're learning it [TS]

  better and [TS]

  more thoroughly and with I think a [TS]

  clearer I'd picture and not accepting as [TS]

  many limitations as the previous you [TS]

  know feminist movements and women's [TS]

  liberation and all the other stuff but I [TS]

  still very strongly feel that we are in [TS]

  the awareness phase for everybody I've [TS]

  you know for me as well like and I do [TS]

  see some concrete signs of progress I [TS]

  find myself seeing I mean from my [TS]

  perspective a lot of what I see is like [TS]

  who's speaking at this tech conference I [TS]

  see and watch and hear about and get [TS]

  forwarded to me more really good talks [TS]

  by women at tech conferences as the [TS]

  circles I travel in and my twitter or [TS]

  whatever then I did several years ago [TS]

  and I feel like that is progress [TS]

  probably just progress in my awareness [TS]

  that that is a thing and also progress [TS]

  in the people I follow forwarding me [TS]

  those things and you know I get says [TS]

  like the fact that there can even be a [TS]

  story that has any real-world [TS]

  consequences to a company about hey this [TS]

  company is run by a bunch of sexist [TS]

  jerks and that actually like is a I [TS]

  think we hear about and be something [TS]

  anything literally anything happens [TS]

  about it maybe not the right thing maybe [TS]

  not the best things but something [TS]

  happens like if one extra person deletes [TS]

  their app like that is a tiny bit of [TS]

  progress but yeah that's that's pretty [TS]

  much how I feel how it's going and about [TS]

  us specifically on the show like we're [TS]

  still we still talk about it we still [TS]

  discuss it we still try to do what we [TS]

  can in the ways that we can you know [TS]

  it's it's a continuing struggle yep [TS]

  robin christopherson writes in which if [TS]

  any of the many rumored changes to the [TS]

  new iphone would actually make you [TS]

  decide not to upgrade if it comes to [TS]

  pass [TS]

  i'm gonna go on a very small rant about [TS]

  this i don't understand people who say [TS]

  and i can't think of a specific specific [TS]

  example of oh actually the touch bar is [TS]

  a great example i will never like the [TS]

  touch bar and I will never buy a Mac [TS]

  that has a touch bar that to me just [TS]

  doesn't make sense because it stands to [TS]

  reason that at least for portable Mac's [TS]

  the touch bar is going to be the future [TS]

  probably across the line it may not be [TS]

  for five years or something like that [TS]

  but it will probably be the future and [TS]

  even if the touch bar if you think [TS]

  that's a crummy example it doesn't [TS]

  matter my point is like [TS]

  just get on the bus the bus is pulling [TS]

  away get on the bus and you may not love [TS]

  it but get on the bus because what's the [TS]

  alternative go to Windows ha have fun [TS]

  and and so to me [TS]

  there may be something that I don't like [TS]

  about the new iPhones so for the sake of [TS]

  example I'm skeptical that I would [TS]

  terribly enjoy the face on lock and I [TS]

  would you know and I suspect I wouldn't [TS]

  miss touch ID but I mean I will [TS]

  certainly give it a shot and I will [TS]

  certainly give it a shot and if it ends [TS]

  up that I like touch ID better well then [TS]

  that's a stinky part of the new iPhone [TS]

  but everything else will be amazing so [TS]

  it'll all even itself out so I don't [TS]

  really understand the question but I [TS]

  don't really understand this question do [TS]

  you think the narrower view they're [TS]

  asking would make you not want to [TS]

  upgrade and when I saw this question I [TS]

  thought about like touch ID on the back [TS]

  if they couldn't if they can't get the [TS]

  touch ADEA under the screen for this [TS]

  generation but we know for a fact those [TS]

  other phones do this that fingerprint [TS]

  sensing under screen is a technology [TS]

  that exists it just you know wasn't up [TS]

  to Apple's caliber yet for whatever [TS]

  reason I might say if I was if it was my [TS]

  upgrade year which isn't by the way I [TS]

  might say oh I'm not gonna upgrade to [TS]

  see this phone I'll wait till next year [TS]

  when hopefully they'll have that sorted [TS]

  out or we even wait to the next [TS]

  generation please you know I have no [TS]

  problem waiting oh it's not like Casey [TS]

  was saying like oh I'm never gonna buy [TS]

  with touch bar like obviously eventually [TS]

  you're gonna have to get a new phone and [TS]

  eventually I would choose to get an [TS]

  iPhone but specifically like oh if they [TS]

  make a new form factor and it's the [TS]

  first male year and they had to make [TS]

  weird compromises and such ideas in the [TS]

  back even if it's just as simple as like [TS]

  they put touch ID in the back but I've [TS]

  never used touch ID in the back I'm not [TS]

  sure I like it I rather let a bunch of [TS]

  my friends who I know really well buy [TS]

  this phone and tell me about it so the [TS]

  next year I'll know whether I think I'll [TS]

  like it or like just play with them to [TS]

  store whatever so yes there are lots of [TS]

  weird things involving the phone that [TS]

  would make me decide not to upgrade but [TS]

  I don't think there's many things that [TS]

  would make me decide I'm never going to [TS]

  buy an iPhone again and that's that's a [TS]

  different question [TS]

  yeah I mean I I think pretty similarly I [TS]

  mean look we all know I'm gonna buy it [TS]

  regardless so why why even bother I mean [TS]

  you know III think the answer is you [TS]

  know I'm gonna do what I always do which [TS]

  is I'm going to buy the new thing [TS]

  immediately and then I complained or [TS]

  anything that's worse about it fair [TS]

  enough that's typically how these things [TS]

  tend to go I did not want to answer this [TS]

  question because this is another example [TS]

  of where I don't care [TS]

  but somebody and I think that person's [TS]

  name might be John siracusa has decided [TS]

  we should answer this question so [TS]

  stephen sand off writes tabs or spaces I [TS]

  honestly don't even have the faintest [TS]

  idea what my editors set to it's [TS]

  whatever the default for X code is don't [TS]

  care your monster don't even know I [TS]

  don't even know just pick one [TS]

  actually I can say the same thing so I [TS]

  know what it is in text made but for my [TS]

  iOS code or next code I actually have no [TS]

  idea which one it is but I will say in [TS]

  text made it's spaces but I this is the [TS]

  kind of like I'd feel about this a few [TS]

  weeks ago like it doesn't really matter [TS]

  because good tools let you switch [TS]

  between one or the other with like one [TS]

  command so it's it's it really doesn't [TS]

  matter at all no no no that's something [TS]

  a tab user would say it totally matter [TS]

  so let me tell you why so first of all [TS]

  I'm my ants aren't abs versus spaces is [TS]

  spaces and the reason I say space is [TS]

  because spaces are the same size [TS]

  visually everywhere but the whole point [TS]

  in tabs I thought is that you I can [TS]

  choose to have my tabs be a thousand [TS]

  right okay yep so now tabs now it's like [TS]

  okay well tabs are semantic in don't [TS]

  tell me how big has to be the problem [TS]

  with that is that I think good [TS]

  formatting in most not maybe some less [TS]

  in some programming languages good [TS]

  formatting needs to be done has [TS]

  instances in which you want to indent by [TS]

  less than one indentation level to align [TS]

  things right and if you use spaces [TS]

  everywhere there is no ambiguity and you [TS]

  can make it look like how you want it to [TS]

  look like if you use tabs [TS]

  some Joker is gonna set their tab to two [TS]

  and someone else is gonna have it set to [TS]

  four and someone's gonna have it set to [TS]

  eight and the part and the line where [TS]

  you use tabs but then use space to align [TS]

  a bunch of things is gonna look crazy [TS]

  pants [TS]

  spaces is the correct answer but I'm [TS]

  forced to use tabs at work and have for [TS]

  many years and so if you're working [TS]

  programmer you got to do what you got to [TS]

  do with the actual entrance spaces and [TS]

  and Chris lat agrees with me so there [TS]

  you go and that's all that really [TS]

  matters I bet that's gonna meet what [TS]

  eventually drives you to quit your job [TS]

  like eventually one day yours you're [TS]

  gonna hit that tab key for the last time [TS]

  and you're like that's it I'm done no I [TS]

  mean you still hate you still hit the [TS]

  tab key even wanted to space this but [TS]

  like I you I work changed both my brace [TS]

  style and the indenting character but [TS]

  this is what it means to be a working [TS]

  programmer it's too far wait what what [TS]

  is your preferred brace style [TS]

  many years ago I used bsd-style opening [TS]

  and closing on the same column mm-hmm [TS]

  for basically of my entire career up to [TS]

  like maybe 10 years ago and then I [TS]

  switched to forcibly switch to KN are no [TS]

  coddled else's come on people I'm a K&R [TS]

  person myself you know I used to hide [TS]

  first why I had no idea those were the [TS]

  two like I I did know the names for [TS]

  those two styles but I used to be [TS]

  violently devoutly in favor of what did [TS]

  you say BSD where all of the openings in [TS]

  Iran might be almond it's the one where [TS]

  the the opening curly is underneath the [TS]

  eye and if right right right that's [TS]

  that's the way I used to be just and I [TS]

  was passionately about Italy almost as [TS]

  bad as I am about people who say jiff [TS]

  like I passionately believed that that [TS]

  you have to put it under eye and those [TS]

  monsters that sage if that also put the [TS]

  the opening brace at the end of the line [TS]

  or just without help and overtime [TS]

  similar story I think because I started [TS]

  writing a fair bit of JavaScript I ended [TS]

  up kind of switching to the other style [TS]

  where you have you know if something [TS]

  opened open brace new line like it's an [TS]

  important part in every programmer who [TS]

  doesn't work for themselves in a single [TS]

  person shop and they're in their careers [TS]

  is becoming not just multi-language [TS]

  fluent but becoming able to and you've [TS]

  rework on open source projects your [TS]

  forces this to becoming able to write [TS]

  code and the style demanded by the thing [TS]

  that you're doing whether it's a job or [TS]

  an open source project or whatever you [TS]

  can't I mean you can be Precious about [TS]

  it and have a preferred thing but you [TS]

  have to be able to get the job done in [TS]

  whatever language are formatting that is [TS]

  dictated by the mob you just have to [TS]

  it's just practically and [TS]

  you know in the end like I was also [TS]

  pretty strongly about opening curly [TS]

  under the little eye and I still think [TS]

  it's the style that makes more sense but [TS]

  you know you get over it a few years of [TS]

  using kar and you're like okay like it's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  and it's actually difficult if you get [TS]

  into a groove to switch back and forth [TS]

  like if the mode switch between them you [TS]

  just your fingers will you'll find them [TS]

  doing the things they do and you have to [TS]

  switch back but like that's life that's [TS]

  programming for you I'm actually the [TS]

  reason why I use knr style is that I [TS]

  used to use the brace hump of the eye [TS]

  but like in college and like as I was [TS]

  teaching myself how to program and going [TS]

  through college like I used that style [TS]

  and then my first job you strictly KN [TS]

  our style and they just like broke me of [TS]

  that habit and then that became my style [TS]

  anyway well we can all agree tabs versus [TS]

  spaces it doesn't really matter but the [TS]

  right answer spaces unless you use two [TS]

  spaces in which case you're an animal I [TS]

  think I could probably get behind that [TS]

  Spencer Holbrook writes in what low [TS]

  level part of Apple stack would you like [TS]

  to see replaced next hfs+ day a PFS [TS]

  Objective C to Swift OpenGL to metal etc [TS]

  I think I'm most anxious and most [TS]

  interested in HFS+ to a PFS and I can't [TS]

  think of another example if top my head [TS]

  I'm sure John you'll probably have one [TS]

  but none of these are really rev my [TS]

  engine that much sorry John markula [TS]

  asking you what you want to see replace [TS]

  next they listed a bunch of ones they're [TS]

  already doing I'm so following all of [TS]

  that oh yeah wish list I don't even know [TS]

  I'd have to think about that I'm not [TS]

  sure to be honest I'll pass on this one [TS]

  Marco what do you think [TS]

  yeah I'm sure John's gonna have the best [TS]

  answers here but thank you for going to [TS]

  me first I don't have to follow him my [TS]

  boring answers are basically I have to [TS]

  it's like if the if the API framework or [TS]

  if the UI framework is is the correct [TS]

  level for this question I would love to [TS]

  see what surpasses app kit on the Mac if [TS]

  ever oh that's a good one actually [TS]

  that's very good that's not low level so [TS]

  if you go a little bit lower level what [TS]

  I would also like to see is another [TS]

  thing on the Mac actually I would like [TS]

  to see Mac sandbox and completely [TS]

  rethought and matured and a rethinking [TS]

  of the Mac security model with [TS]

  so like basically bringing a more I Oh s [TS]

  so like basically bringing a more I Oh s [TS]

  like sandboxing environment to the Mac [TS]

  so it's so to do things like you could [TS]

  you could knowingly safely install an [TS]

  application and then delete that [TS]

  application and know that everything [TS]

  that goes with it gets deleted no they [TS]

  could only write to and read from [TS]

  certain directories that are easy to [TS]

  manage and and isolated from other [TS]

  things and can't like every app that you [TS]

  install as you the user account can't [TS]

  read your entire user directory and they [TS]

  started down this path with sandboxing [TS]

  whenever that was like eight years ago [TS]

  and they they did like the most bare [TS]

  bones basic version and then just [TS]

  stopped and they'd never matured it and [TS]

  as I read and because of the version [TS]

  they did and and the the various [TS]

  shortcomings had had it basically made [TS]

  it so that most apps could not be [TS]

  reasonably sandbox if they did anything [TS]

  cool at all and I bet there's oh I bet [TS]

  there's a better balance to be struck [TS]

  now in the modern day with what we know [TS]

  with where the software you know world [TS]

  is where the economics and where the [TS]

  ecosystem has gone since then I would [TS]

  love to see a more modern more secure [TS]

  version of sandboxing on the Mac that [TS]

  brings it closer to iOS in those [TS]

  security and and user assuredness ways [TS]

  but that still has the power of Mac [TS]

  software available in various you know [TS]

  new clever ways I know that's a very [TS]

  hard thing to solve but there's also you [TS]

  know a I think we need to solve it and [TS]

  be I think there's massive gains to be [TS]

  had there when it is solved all right [TS]

  John those probably there's a bunch of [TS]

  stuff all the way down to the kernel [TS]

  itself that I give this to you but the [TS]

  reason I put this in because I don't [TS]

  have any really good answers for little [TS]

  stuff that I'm dying for except for one [TS]

  and it's actually mentioned in here they [TS]

  said you know HFS tape EFS Objective C a [TS]

  swift OpenGL the metal the OpenGL the [TS]

  metal one is the one I actually have [TS]

  objections to I don't like I understand [TS]

  metal and it's good thing to have and an [TS]

  Apple is heavily behind it but I think [TS]

  Apple should still have a world class [TS]

  open Jam fomentation I know that's a [TS]

  tough sell bits like what do we even [TS]

  need that for we're all in on metal [TS]

  battle is the future blah blah blah like [TS]

  I don't that thing you can get rid of [TS]

  metal but I OpenGL or Vulcan or whatever [TS]

  is still a thing and it is still worth [TS]

  Apple [TS]

  not just maintaining but like you know [TS]

  advance it like either don't have it at [TS]

  all it's kind of like flash like look if [TS]

  you think it's viable to have a web [TS]

  browser that flash don't support it at [TS]

  all don't don't just say our flash [TS]

  emulation is slow and so people won't [TS]

  use it and they'll migrate age just [TS]

  don't support it at all either don't [TS]

  support at all and if you think you [TS]

  can't you know oh we can't drop opengl [TS]

  we have to have it our whole West runs [TS]

  well then make a good version of it like [TS]

  I was this came up recently in the [TS]

  article I think KC red was he retweeted [TS]

  it but I read earlier about the dolphin [TS]

  GameCube emulator and all interesting [TS]

  technical problems KC you can have a [TS]

  show out there put that one link in the [TS]

  show notes [TS]

  lots of good articles on that and it [TS]

  goes through some fun technical details [TS]

  and then towards the bottom of this [TS]

  really nice article it says it here's a [TS]

  section for Mac users none of this is [TS]

  relevant to you because your OpenGL [TS]

  stack is a piece of crap and none of the [TS]

  features that we even talked about even [TS]

  exists in your open in GL position let [TS]

  alone exists in our performance so screw [TS]

  you guys and it's like look Apple it's [TS]

  embarrassing I wish I want them you know [TS]

  and what did we lose by that we don't [TS]

  get to have a cool GameCube Emily ome [TS]

  later unless we boot into Windows or [TS]

  Linux for crying a Linux so I hope a [TS]

  pole gets their act together with OpenGL [TS]

  you don't support it at all and then [TS]

  figure out what you have to do to make [TS]

  your computer still viable or actually [TS]

  support it and be awesome that was not [TS]

  what I expected but I was pretty good [TS]

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  fraction of the cost of other financial [TS]

  services and betterment is so easy to [TS]

  use that they've won [TS]

  awards for their customer experience you [TS]

  can see for yourself with a demo account [TS]

  right on their site if you want ATP [TS]

  listeners get up to one year managed for [TS]

  free for more information visit [TS]

  betterment comm slash ATP once again up [TS]

  to one year managed free terms and [TS]

  conditions do apply and investing [TS]

  involves risk to learn more visit [TS]

  betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

  betterment comm slash ATP betterment [TS]

  investing made better Jacy Calhoun [TS]

  writes how about an update on how the [TS]

  overcast advertising is working out so [TS]

  John no I'm just kidding [TS]

  I mean this short answer is it's great I [TS]

  mean there's there's not a whole lot to [TS]

  say on it this is so they're talking [TS]

  about like how I switched a few months [TS]

  ago to selling my own direct ads and now [TS]

  they're entirely for podcast that first [TS]

  it was like for podcasts and or websites [TS]

  the podcasts have been buying them so [TS]

  much that I actually recently stopped [TS]

  selling them for anything that's not a [TS]

  podcast that the capability is still [TS]

  there if I choose to use it later but I [TS]

  don't think I will need to for a while I [TS]

  worked out some various like pricing and [TS]

  inventory level tweaks over the last few [TS]

  months just working out like how should [TS]

  these things be priced how many should I [TS]

  have any category what should the [TS]

  categories even be but I think it's [TS]

  pretty stable now it's and and it's it's [TS]

  making good money it's making something [TS]

  like ten times what I was making from [TS]

  Google ad whatever their AdMob that's [TS]

  what it does the other the mobile app [TS]

  thing so it's going great and I as long [TS]

  as this continues to sell at all [TS]

  reasonably I don't see myself changing [TS]

  the model any time soon from your [TS]

  analytics or whatever you've got running [TS]

  against these ads does it seem like [TS]

  they're working like obviously they're [TS]

  working in the sense that your ki you [TS]

  keep selling them but are they working [TS]

  in the sense that it seems like they're [TS]

  pushing subscriptions to to shows and [TS]

  all that yeah I mean I have that info [TS]

  and I share that like the advertisers [TS]

  when you buy an ad they see in their [TS]

  little control panel on the website how [TS]

  many impressions how many tabs and how [TS]

  many subscriptions it has gotten they [TS]

  don't see anything else but they see [TS]

  those three numbers and that's [TS]

  honestly I haven't collect anything else [TS]

  that's all I collect so and and that [TS]

  plays into how I price them like I try [TS]

  to keep the cost per new subscriber [TS]

  within a certain range the the challenge [TS]

  in pricing these ads is not trying to [TS]

  people to buy them it's it's trying to [TS]

  avoid the temptation to raise prices [TS]

  like crazy because they're selling out [TS]

  frequently and I it's hard for me to [TS]

  know like what should any listener be [TS]

  worth like what range should I keep this [TS]

  price in the way I've been pricing it [TS]

  I've been keeping it between one and two [TS]

  dollars for most categories but certain [TS]

  categories like like I recently [TS]

  separated out business podcast into [TS]

  their own category because like it you [TS]

  know I ran the numbers like what is it [TS]

  what is a listener to or sorry what's a [TS]

  listener to a tipi worth and if you've [TS]

  run the numbers over the course of you [TS]

  know certain time spans or like a year [TS]

  or two its ends up being like you know [TS]

  five bucks something like that right and [TS]

  so I thought if I keep the prices [TS]

  between one and two dollars that that [TS]

  keeps it you know pretty good pretty [TS]

  compelling for most people but certain [TS]

  categories like like business business [TS]

  podcasts are huge first of all like [TS]

  that's huge market for like business you [TS]

  know tips and tricks and writing books [TS]

  and everything and many of them monetize [TS]

  not just by ads but by selling you books [TS]

  e-books conferences seminars you know [TS]

  stuff like that so they might have a [TS]

  very different valuation of what a new [TS]

  subscriber is worth to them and so and [TS]

  and this is true of many many of the [TS]

  different different you know categories [TS]

  of podcasts and and some of them the [TS]

  people don't care what Ana listeners [TS]

  worth them they just want dates and [TS]

  listeners and they have a new show maybe [TS]

  and they want to know when I get it [TS]

  basically going from zero and so they [TS]

  use the ads for that if you look at it [TS]

  purely as like how should I price these [TS]

  in in terms of like pure demand they [TS]

  keep selling out so I should price them [TS]

  way higher but if I price them higher [TS]

  we're gonna start getting into numbers [TS]

  that that if you think about the numbers [TS]

  if you run the numbers of like what is a [TS]

  listener worth it starts not to make [TS]

  sense for a lot of people so I don't [TS]

  want to breach that level so basically [TS]

  the answer is I think I even could make [TS]

  more money from it if I tried to but I [TS]

  would be afraid if I did that that I [TS]

  would that I would have would have like [TS]

  a brief period of making more money [TS]

  followed by a crash [TS]

  as a lot of advertisers started seeing [TS]

  you know this actually isn't worth what [TS]

  I'm paying for these users and starts [TS]

  bailing out so I want to keep it [TS]

  reasonable so that I have the most [TS]

  advertisers as possible but you know [TS]

  besides that that minor concern which i [TS]

  think is largely alleviated now by just [TS]

  time and stability it's going great [TS]

  it really is going great and it's one of [TS]

  the only advertising things I've ever [TS]

  seen [TS]

  where basically all the parties win you [TS]

  know because I'm not showing you ads for [TS]

  Viagra of mattresses like I'm showing [TS]

  you ads for podcasts in categories that [TS]

  you subscribe to while you're using a [TS]

  podcast app in a way that respects your [TS]

  privacy that isn't a huge burden that [TS]

  doesn't get in your way that like it's a [TS]

  great setup and you know it this [TS]

  obviously is not a method that every app [TS]

  can do so it's not like I'm not saying [TS]

  like every app should monetize the way [TS]

  I've monetized because well you simply [TS]

  can't it doesn't apply but for what I am [TS]

  doing [TS]

  it's working great and I have I have [TS]

  more advertisers who want to buy ads [TS]

  than I have inventory to sell them and [TS]

  that's wonderful that's really awesome [TS]

  John any additional thoughts on that [TS]

  nope [TS]

  all right Edgar Perez writes in and this [TS]

  is the first one that I noticed in this [TS]

  context but I've seen this come up a lot [TS]

  particularly after our one Pastore [TS]

  discussion and he writes to say I agree [TS]

  the $3 a month for an app service is [TS]

  reasonable but what if all the apps I [TS]

  use monthly want $3 a month can't let [TS]

  apps kill the Mac I understand what [TS]

  people are driving out and again Edgar [TS]

  isn't the first person to say this you [TS]

  know if every app I use is a [TS]

  subscription Apple suddenly I won't be [TS]

  able to afford anything anymore and I [TS]

  get that but I I think in my eyes if [TS]

  everything I used became a subscription [TS]

  I would either change my usage or I [TS]

  would pay for it all and I don't it [TS]

  since we're now deep into the second [TS]

  episode I don't remember if it was this [TS]

  episode of last week we talked about ad [TS]

  blockers I think it was last week which [TS]

  was really two hours ago I had talked [TS]

  about ad blockers and how you know Marco [TS]

  you were saying well if the Nant blocker [TS]

  shows up then I'll just leave and I just [TS]

  won't read that content it was this one [TS]

  peeler [TS]

  no wasn't this one okay thanks [TS]

  I'm getting tired it's nearly midnight [TS]

  but anyway so point being you know I [TS]

  think it's a similar thing so like for [TS]

  me and this is just for Casey it may not [TS]

  be for others but for me I absolutely [TS]

  will pay for one password and I will [TS]

  absolutely pay for day one but maybe [TS]

  your you know the the listener here [TS]

  maybe your a day one user but you don't [TS]

  love it you just kind of like it and [TS]

  maybe it's not worth paying for in a [TS]

  regular basis so you just stop using day [TS]

  one and use Apple notes or something [TS]

  like that that's okay that's an option [TS]

  like that will work in life will go on [TS]

  but I don't know that's just the way I [TS]

  look at it John what do you think if you [TS]

  had remembered back to actual last week [TS]

  I address this on the 1password episode [TS]

  I said look not every I did it from the [TS]

  perspective of an app developer not [TS]

  every app can sustain subscription [TS]

  pricing your app has to be valuable [TS]

  enough to enough people to sustain [TS]

  subscription price and so I don't think [TS]

  there's any fear that every single app [TS]

  is going to be you know three dollars a [TS]

  month because there are app categories [TS]

  entire categories let alone individual [TS]

  apps that can't sustain it but they [TS]

  don't deliver that much value to people [TS]

  so you have to you have to know your [TS]

  application and your marker to say is [TS]

  any are enough people willing to [TS]

  subscribe to this people probably aren't [TS]

  gonna pay three dollars a month for a [TS]

  far nap all right even if you have new [TS]

  parts released every month like they're [TS]

  they're a whole you know you have to [TS]

  turn you'd have to turn into like a free [TS]

  for free-to-play you know casino [TS]

  gambling exploit human nature type [TS]

  service to get that and then it's a [TS]

  different kind of app entirely right so [TS]

  I this is a fear that I don't think is a [TS]

  real thing if you're a customer this [TS]

  will take care of itself don't like get [TS]

  the price don't buy it [TS]

  right and from a developer's perspective [TS]

  if you don't want to be on the losing [TS]

  end of that problem taking care of [TS]

  itself you should know you know if if we [TS]

  can't develop this without subscription [TS]

  pricing make sure that it is valuable [TS]

  enough to enough people to justify [TS]

  subscription pricing game one password [TS]

  certainly is because a lot of people [TS]

  find it a very valuable thing and they [TS]

  want it to work on an ongoing basis and [TS]

  they understand the ongoing maintenance [TS]

  costs and they're willing to pay for it [TS]

  but you're far adapt might not be so I [TS]

  would say don't worry about this too [TS]

  much and if you don't want to pay for a [TS]

  subscription don't pay for it I mean [TS]

  every time so [TS]

  pricing comes up people bring up this [TS]

  issue of what's gonna happen when [TS]

  everything subscription and everyone [TS]

  gets tired of it and stops paying for it [TS]

  you know it's not something like that [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  the idea of subscription fatigue and you [TS]

  know we've been able to charge [TS]

  subscription prices now for a little [TS]

  while and there's that's just not [TS]

  happening like I have not seen any sign [TS]

  that that's happening I think this is [TS]

  one of those things that the market just [TS]

  sorts out itself you know like John said [TS]

  like most apps aren't willing to or [TS]

  sorry most customers aren't willing to [TS]

  pay for most of their apps but there are [TS]

  they wouldn't be buying a $36 a year [TS]

  upgrade either instead of paying $3 a [TS]

  month like the fact is most apps have a [TS]

  lot of competition and aren't that [TS]

  necessary for most people so they're [TS]

  gonna have a hard time matter how they [TS]

  charge but the apps that are that are [TS]

  really valuable to people that are [TS]

  difficult for people to go without or [TS]

  they're required for them to do their [TS]

  work or whatever else or that appeal to [TS]

  markets that don't care about spending 3 [TS]

  dollars a month they can do this just [TS]

  fine I don't think the whole like [TS]

  slippery slope argument is like once [TS]

  what's all the apps go this way no one's [TS]

  gonna want to pay any more I just don't [TS]

  think it's happening like I think we [TS]

  wouldn't we would have seen that by now [TS]

  we would have seen that at least [TS]

  starting and it's just not most apps are [TS]

  not even trying to charge subscription [TS]

  rates and the ones that are mostly do [TS]

  okay I agree [TS]

  dude done writes in is it technically [TS]

  possible for Apple to make second gen [TS]

  airpot noise-canceling or [TS]

  noise-isolating I really really want [TS]

  that I don't see why not I think the [TS]

  problem with that is it's even more [TS]

  processing to be done thus even more [TS]

  battery usage but I mean at this point I [TS]

  don't know that it would be a tremendous [TS]

  difference and certainly noise-isolating [TS]

  I mean they could change the look of [TS]

  what of these things and change where [TS]

  they sit within your ear but I don't see [TS]

  any reason why I wouldn't work Marco I [TS]

  mean you basically got I mean the noise [TS]

  cancellation requires a microphone on [TS]

  the outside and then DSP on the inside [TS]

  to basically emit sound waves on the [TS]

  inside but in you know mixed into your [TS]

  sound [TS]

  that will cancel out by phase of the [TS]

  wave that will cancel out the waves of [TS]

  the ones coming in from the outside [TS]

  world so there's nothing stopping them [TS]

  from doing that as far as I know in the [TS]

  harbor they have now or you know in that [TS]

  style of hardware they have now rather [TS]

  but that wouldn't be very useful without [TS]

  better isolation and isolation is right [TS]

  now where they really fall down you know [TS]

  and that doesn't require any circuitry [TS]

  that requires physical barriers [TS]

  basically of you know literally just [TS]

  isolating you from the world around you [TS]

  and to do that you know right now they [TS]

  are ear buds and bloody ear buds are our [TS]

  little drivers that sit kind of kind of [TS]

  inside your ears but there are more like [TS]

  resting in a little Kirby spot in your [TS]

  ear they're not really blocking your ear [TS]

  canal at all there are other types like [TS]

  canal phones that or you know in-ear [TS]

  monitors they're all they're also called [TS]

  that actually block your whole ear canal [TS]

  with some kind of like big like rubber [TS]

  cone thing or something like that and [TS]

  they they physically block the sound [TS]

  from getting into your ears larger over [TS]

  ear headphones have a similar effect but [TS]

  with they just they they cup over your [TS]

  ears as if you're putting your hands [TS]

  over your ears and block the sound it [TS]

  that way either way you're physically [TS]

  blocking the sound from getting there [TS]

  for the ear pot or started for the air [TS]

  pods or your pods to do that they would [TS]

  have to have a totally different shape [TS]

  that would actually like block your ear [TS]

  canal and be more like canal phones or [TS]

  they would have to have some kind of [TS]

  like you know coating or cover you could [TS]

  put on them some kind of accessory that [TS]

  you can put on them to do that although [TS]

  I think they would ideally they would be [TS]

  designed for this from the start [TS]

  so that there's no there's nothing [TS]

  stopping Apple from releasing air pod [TS]

  canal phones but it's it's a different [TS]

  style of product it has it's a whole [TS]

  different shape it's a whole different [TS]

  set of constraints and design goals [TS]

  you'd have to have for it I don't expect [TS]

  they would do that probably at all but [TS]

  if they do it would probably be a [TS]

  separate product it probably would not [TS]

  just be like air pods - now they block [TS]

  your whole ear canal it would probably [TS]

  be like here's the new you know air [TS]

  canals or you know whatever it they [TS]

  would have a better name than that but [TS]

  it would probably be a separate product [TS]

  because that's a very separate physical [TS]

  design of the [TS]

  products let's just work on Apple being [TS]

  able to ship air pods in a reasonable [TS]

  time worried about adding features thick [TS]

  burn yeah and I also would not spend too [TS]

  much time waiting around for the air pod [TS]

  two's yeah air pods - whatever they like [TS]

  I don't think Apple was updating the air [TS]

  pods anytime soon probably right about [TS]

  that Alex s glum SAS writes in to say if [TS]

  you could make a single change to Swift [TS]

  what would it be I will say that even [TS]

  though it's probably not the biggest [TS]

  thing in the world what I really love to [TS]

  see is reflection and I've talked about [TS]

  this from time to time reflection or [TS]

  introspection means at runtime you can [TS]

  look at an object in code and say you [TS]

  know what are the properties it has one [TS]

  of the methods it has and and and [TS]

  typically along with that you'll see [TS]

  annotations which are attributes in [TS]

  c-sharp world which means you can kind [TS]

  of decorate your code with metadata [TS]

  which is also super useful I could go on [TS]

  and on and on about this but it's not [TS]

  terribly interesting so I'll just say [TS]

  reflection with a bonus choice of [TS]

  stealing Marcos thought earlier of a [TS]

  better concurrency model so since I've [TS]

  stolen your obvious answer Marco what [TS]

  would you say have two versions oh I [TS]

  don't really have a good answer this [TS]

  question because I don't know enough [TS]

  about Swift because of the [TS]

  aforementioned factors I don't use it [TS]

  really enough so I really am not [TS]

  qualified to say John so if a single [TS]

  change if concurrency counts as a single [TS]

  chain so just solve concurrency the [TS]

  solution of your choosing either a good [TS]

  imitation of async/await there's [TS]

  something entirely different or whatever [TS]

  that would be my single thing but it's [TS]

  kind of vague if I have to be narrow I [TS]

  would say I would say regular expression [TS]

  literals but you know no way both of [TS]

  those things are coming by the way it's [TS]

  a question of when Brian Middleton asks [TS]

  what arcade games are each of you [TS]

  nostalgic for from your childhood is [TS]

  there one game you would like to own I [TS]

  will start as usual I we actually have a [TS]

  pinball machine in the house my dad many [TS]

  years ago had a had gone through a phase [TS]

  of restore or maybe not restoring but [TS]

  repairing old pinball machines and so he [TS]

  had like [TS]

  six of them at one point but unloaded [TS]

  all but two of them one of which went to [TS]

  me and one of what she still has so I [TS]

  obviously have nostalgia for all those [TS]

  but in terms of like traditional arcade [TS]

  games [TS]

  NBA Jam cruisin USA and Street Fighter 2 [TS]

  I didn't play any of them that much but [TS]

  I enjoyed deeply all three of those both [TS]

  in in arcade form and in occasionally in [TS]

  console form so I would say those three [TS]

  Marco [TS]

  honestly I hardly went to arcades in my [TS]

  childhood we didn't really live that [TS]

  close to them and we didn't have a lot [TS]

  of money and so I idea of just going [TS]

  there and like blowing like tens of [TS]

  dollars maybe like that would be that [TS]

  would not really happen in my family but [TS]

  wait what I did play a little bit of [TS]

  arcade game since I was like a teenager [TS]

  here and there the one I most liked was [TS]

  Daytona USA this was during the you know [TS]

  the mid 90s or so so like the Sega [TS]

  Saturn was coming out and so they they [TS]

  had like a few cool games like Virtua [TS]

  Fighter and everything that were coming [TS]

  out with you know alongside of it and [TS]

  Daytona USA was my favorite one it was a [TS]

  racing game and it was just you know [TS]

  basic kind of like NASCAR style I think [TS]

  I don't know I don't know whatever style [TS]

  uses what appear to be stock cars on a [TS]

  round track but that a lot of turns and [TS]

  it was a lot of fun but it was $1.00 per [TS]

  play in most arcades so I hardly ever [TS]

  played it with the exception of there [TS]

  was like I was in some kind of youth [TS]

  group and there was one time that they [TS]

  had a lock-in at a Magic Mountain arcade [TS]

  where we just got everything set to free [TS]

  play might have to play them all night [TS]

  so I play a lot of it Daytona USA for [TS]

  one night and that was awesome but other [TS]

  than this is kind of a set so we're like [TS]

  oh man I hardly ever played Archy really [TS]

  John I played a lot of arcade games I [TS]

  was thought that a very nice nostalgic [TS]

  for it's hard to pick one that I would [TS]

  want to own though because in general [TS]

  arcade games back then and I'm assuming [TS]

  still today we're made to take your [TS]

  money and so I remember [TS]

  getting lots of you know tokens or [TS]

  quarters and feeding them into these [TS]

  machines and I think if I owned any of [TS]

  them they they would become shallow very [TS]

  fast especially the games I'm nostalgic [TS]

  about unless you do something like [TS]

  centipede or like pac-man or you try to [TS]

  make it like the perfect game or [TS]

  whatever but uh in a couple of summer [TS]

  camps I went through the head arcade [TS]

  games they were either set to free or [TS]

  were only 25 cents when instead of 50 or [TS]

  whatever and that I played a lot and so [TS]

  there are some games I got really good [TS]

  at like one of them that was Tiger heli [TS]

  which is not top-down vertically [TS]

  scrolling shooter thing or 1942 [TS]

  similar type of game both of those very [TS]

  camp I got really good at those games [TS]

  like that was where you put in one [TS]

  quarter and I'd play for a really really [TS]

  really long time you know and but even [TS]

  then you feel like oh well now I've seen [TS]

  the whole game like this is all there is [TS]

  to this game and so I really wouldn't [TS]

  want to own it so I don't think I would [TS]

  want to own any machines but most of [TS]

  subject for the Star Wars sit-down game [TS]

  afterburner we're just as impressive [TS]

  when it first came out especially with [TS]

  the one that you move around inside the [TS]

  thing was one of the first 50:57 games I [TS]

  can remember the classics centipede [TS]

  Galaga I liked time pilot is that we [TS]

  were one called section Z sidearm this [TS]

  was a totally weird one that I still [TS]

  think was awesome I have all these em [TS]

  name now though so I don't need to own [TS]

  any of the machines nice nuclear Eclipse [TS]

  asks this is John Reese when will you [TS]

  record neutral season 2 my official [TS]

  answer is we've been recording it for [TS]

  the last like three years and after [TS]

  shows of this show my unofficial answer [TS]

  is not soon enough John let's go to you [TS]

  first [TS]

  well you answered it there's not an [TS]

  intro season two you listen to it this [TS]

  is it yep [TS]

  done and done Krusty the Klown writes do [TS]

  you think an iOS laptop would be a [TS]

  viable product ie an iBook I was hoping [TS]

  Apple would announced at WWDC but it [TS]

  didn't happen isn't that kind of what an [TS]

  iPad pro is like I understand well I [TS]

  presume that Roger Escobar's person who [TS]

  wrote in is is asking you know something [TS]

  that has the physical like connected [TS]

  keyboard and screen [TS]

  that you can never you know separate the [TS]

  two I I feel like an iPad pro is so [TS]

  close to there that it's oh it's I don't [TS]

  see really is it not okay okay well [TS]

  that's the thing I've never owned an [TS]

  iPad pro so so learn me to show me why [TS]

  I'm wrong yeah so I I have I've now had [TS]

  the 9.7 pro and 10.5 and I keep I keep [TS]

  it always in the keyboard cover almost [TS]

  always on the Apple keyboard cover and [TS]

  and there are other keyboard covers that [TS]

  kind of make it a little bit more laptop [TS]

  like but it they're mostly not that [TS]

  great for the way some people use it and [TS]

  I'm one of these people I would use that [TS]

  I would buy that product because I oh I [TS]

  always want the keyboard the keyboard is [TS]

  what made iPad usable for me as simple [TS]

  as that like I do occasionally like go [TS]

  on the couch and fold the keyboard back [TS]

  behind it and try to use it without it [TS]

  and I hate it I always end up like [TS]

  folding it back out and like trying to [TS]

  use on my lap which is awful cuz it's [TS]

  all floppy and Bailey back weighted [TS]

  everything so I would say this is not a [TS]

  huge market probably but if they did it [TS]

  I would I would certainly buy it that [TS]

  way because iOS for me you know part of [TS]

  the part of the reason why it feels so [TS]

  hobbled to me so often is the lack of a [TS]

  keyboard when I'm on my phone or when I [TS]

  want on iPad without that so like that [TS]

  that's why formulate the keyboard really [TS]

  has made a huge difference for me in [TS]

  making iOS on the iPad and making the [TS]

  making the iPad worth having and worth [TS]

  keeping out in my kitchen all the time [TS]

  so a clamshell version of that would be [TS]

  welcome but I honestly I would be very [TS]

  surprised if they did it John this is [TS]

  where there would be a viable product [TS]

  and I think it totally would like as iOS [TS]

  expands its functionality to solve some [TS]

  of the same problems that are currently [TS]

  only or best solved by a Mac today and [TS]

  inevitably has to come into that area [TS]

  because it's proved it's a proven form [TS]

  factor people like that form factors [TS]

  just a question of oh can you combine [TS]

  that form factor with a bunch of other [TS]

  things software and battery life and [TS]

  costs and other trade-offs to make a [TS]

  compelling product yes you totally can [TS]

  yeah I think you could do with iOS today [TS]

  but certainly as iOS continues get more [TS]

  sophisticated [TS]

  it would be a viable product whether how [TS]

  soon Apple will do it I don't know [TS]

  chance rubbage writes and asked more and [TS]

  more podcasts are going behind paywalls [TS]

  is it a good idea for Apple to enable a [TS]

  tip jar or in-app purchase for podcasts [TS]

  I don't see how that could really work [TS]

  out especially since it would presumably [TS]

  be locked to the Apple podcast app and [TS]

  even if you could just magically snap [TS]

  your fingers and make that work across [TS]

  any podcast app anywhere I don't know I [TS]

  think it would help the smaller podcast [TS]

  but for something like us I don't know [TS]

  that it would me and not to say we're [TS]

  like sorry that implies that we're like [TS]

  a 99 you know percent invisible we're [TS]

  not that anything either but like a [TS]

  mid-level if you if we can generously [TS]

  call ourselves that like a mid-level [TS]

  show like this one I don't know that it [TS]

  would make a big difference let's go to [TS]

  Jon first Apple implementing it is the [TS]

  problem here because having a way for [TS]

  people to do a tip jar and app purchases [TS]

  for podcasts that would be a good thing [TS]

  because the ability to do more business [TS]

  models more easily lets different shows [TS]

  find different ways to fund themselves [TS]

  depends on the show and the audience and [TS]

  so forth but having it be Apple thing is [TS]

  bad because the you know one of the [TS]

  great benefits of podcasts is they're [TS]

  not owned and controlled by a single [TS]

  corporation to the degree that a lot of [TS]

  other things are and so I wouldn't want [TS]

  Apple to do this because if they're [TS]

  wildly successful it's a problem and if [TS]

  they're not successful then what would [TS]

  that was the even the point you don't [TS]

  allow more business models so I would [TS]

  love for there to be standards that you [TS]

  know the clients would work with across [TS]

  multiple platforms just like RSS is a [TS]

  standard the clients work with across [TS]

  multiple platforms to distribute [TS]

  podcasts if there was a similar standard [TS]

  a similar open cross-platform standard [TS]

  for enabling different kind of business [TS]

  models that would be great but guess [TS]

  who's motivated to make such a thing not [TS]

  Apple and not a lot of other companies [TS]

  too so Marco I would say also like the [TS]

  this question starts with the statement [TS]

  more and more podcasts are going behind [TS]

  paywalls this sounds like a big trend [TS]

  but I don't think it is much of one [TS]

  really I think the only podcasts that [TS]

  have actually succeeded in going behind [TS]

  paywalls for the most part are the ones [TS]

  that monetize their back catalogue [TS]

  that are they're fairly timeless and [TS]

  that you can either use their own it [TS]

  possibly paid app or pay for some [TS]

  membership to download like archive to [TS]

  older episodes but then the current ones [TS]

  are still free that's a way more common [TS]

  thing and even that doesn't work for [TS]

  every show like that only works for [TS]

  shows that are timeless doesn't wouldn't [TS]

  work for a show like ours where we talk [TS]

  mostly about news you know so it's like [TS]

  that whole but like I don't think a lot [TS]

  of podcasts overall are going behind [TS]

  paywalls and in the traditional sense of [TS]

  like you can't listen to this unless you [TS]

  pay us the fact is that's really hard [TS]

  it's really hard to grow an audience if [TS]

  you're behind a paywall [TS]

  as I mean you look look around the whole [TS]

  rest of the web lots of news sites and [TS]

  everything I have tried paywalls very [TS]

  few have succeeded because of this [TS]

  problem and the ones that have have [TS]

  these kind of porous pay walls where you [TS]

  can get a bunch for free upfront and [TS]

  then you may manage to pay us or clear [TS]

  your cookies or you couldn't you have to [TS]

  pay us to read all of our articles [TS]

  unless you come from Google or Twitter [TS]

  like there's like there's all sorts of [TS]

  like these holes because pay walls are [TS]

  really hard to make work podcasts have [TS]

  have survived and thrived and grown all [TS]

  this time driven almost entirely by [TS]

  advertising the exact same way most [TS]

  websites have always funded themselves [TS]

  for all the same reasons that it's [TS]

  really again it's hard to grow an [TS]

  audience if you're making people pay on [TS]

  the way in and it's generally easier to [TS]

  sell ads than to do that and advertisers [TS]

  will typically pay more than your [TS]

  audience will so I don't really think [TS]

  this is a big problem either a trend [TS]

  that is happening or something that [TS]

  really needs to be explored that much so [TS]

  that being said if Apple were to enable [TS]

  tip jars or in-app purchases for [TS]

  podcasts I honestly I have thought about [TS]

  doing this in over cast before I've [TS]

  talked to podcasters about it the [TS]

  overall conclusion I have reached is [TS]

  that that would be a very messy business [TS]

  to be in and that for the most part [TS]

  podcasters now because there isn't a big [TS]

  centralised system run by Apple anywhere [TS]

  else podcasters now have found ways to [TS]

  monetize their podcasts [TS]

  their own ways they own ways that they [TS]

  control people have patreon so people [TS]

  have memberships and people just do ads [TS]

  like we do some people do some [TS]

  combination thereof but the point is [TS]

  that no one's involved there is no [TS]

  middleman there is no like you know [TS]

  Apple skimming 30% off the top and [TS]

  making everything go through them and [TS]

  disallowing everything else like the way [TS]

  there was an app's [TS]

  you know there is no middleman and like [TS]

  when I talk to podcasters when I was [TS]

  thinking about doing something like this [TS]

  in overcast the universal response was [TS]

  we don't want anyone else handling our [TS]

  money for us we don't want anyone else [TS]

  getting between our audience in us me or [TS]

  Apple or anybody else like no one wanted [TS]

  that and and I would see like you know [TS]

  what if I started collecting money and I [TS]

  just distribute it to you like you know [TS]

  readability style like would you go for [TS]

  that and the universal response was kind [TS]

  of like yeah I guess I would take the [TS]

  money but I wouldn't promote it because [TS]

  I would want if I'm gonna promote [TS]

  something I want to promote my own [TS]

  membership thing on my own site or my [TS]

  own patreon whatever else like everybody [TS]

  wanted to do their own thing with their [TS]

  own money and they don't want middle [TS]

  people to come in and collect money on [TS]

  their behalf like that you're not doing [TS]

  them a favor of doing that so ultimately [TS]

  I I see why this question is asked and [TS]

  it's going to keep being asked like [TS]

  every six months for if for the next ten [TS]

  years as everyone thinks about these [TS]

  things the podcast but I just don't [TS]

  think this is really a big problem and I [TS]

  don't think anybody wants a huge [TS]

  middleman to come in and and get in the [TS]

  way of between them and their customers [TS]

  I'm things like patreon or a middleman [TS]

  as well but they're they're divorced [TS]

  from podcasting there's nothing about [TS]

  patreon that has podcast specific so [TS]

  it's just a question of like how do you [TS]

  find a way to fund the thing that you're [TS]

  doing and you have all these tool I mean [TS]

  stripe is a you know middleman they're [TS]

  like if they taking your percentage of [TS]

  your transactions they're any good like [TS]

  there's always going to be people taking [TS]

  a percentage of transactions but in the [TS]

  world of podcasting it's nice to not [TS]

  have or you have to do it this way [TS]

  because this is how podcasts are sold [TS]

  you want to use stripe you want to use [TS]

  patreon you want to Kickstarter you want [TS]

  to solicit donations on your web page [TS]

  and use any one of those services none [TS]

  of those are tied to podcasting and are [TS]

  interesting to the podcast ecosystem or [TS]

  you know force you to do something [TS]

  unlike for example the App Store where [TS]

  Apple [TS]

  fully controls how you can pay for your [TS]

  how you can collect money for your [TS]

  applications yeah Chris Adamson writes [TS]

  what streaming services other than [TS]

  Netflix do you guys use does siracusa [TS]

  have a country roll subscription so [TS]

  actually let's start with John and then [TS]

  we'll end with me I saw this question I [TS]

  was trying to think of I mean I do I [TS]

  subscribe to Hulu I subscribed Amazon [TS]

  Prime I do not have a crunchyroll [TS]

  subscription but I have had one in the [TS]

  past maybe there's other ones I honestly [TS]

  I thought about the other day I should [TS]

  catalog all the things have subscribed [TS]

  to so I am aware rado crown the line [TS]

  he'll steal style of not having too many [TS]

  subscriptions but they've been creeping [TS]

  in like I mean for things like Hulu is [TS]

  like oh I want to see The Handmaid's [TS]

  Tale so I'll describe to Hulu but now I [TS]

  just have a whose description forever [TS]

  because I find other shows that I want [TS]

  to watch I already watched a good place [TS]

  on there because other things I'm gonna [TS]

  watch on Hulu right this can't continue [TS]

  indefinitely because I will be end up [TS]

  you know I gotta add up all those 5 10 [TS]

  whatever dollars a month and see what [TS]

  their I was HBO well no but that's part [TS]

  of my cable I don't know they've too [TS]

  many I guess is my answer [TS]

  fair enough Marco for us it's just it's [TS]

  Netflix and HBO go or now whichever one [TS]

  is those two that's it yeah for us it's [TS]

  Netflix and we are Amazon Prime members [TS]

  by virtue or Prime video members by [TS]

  virtue of Amazon Prime [TS]

  oh yeah us to never use it yeah and [TS]

  that's the thing like outside of the [TS]

  Grand Tour we never use it and I [TS]

  probably would have subscribed to prime [TS]

  video specifically for the Grand Tour [TS]

  and then regretted it because the Grand [TS]

  Tour was terrible uh let's see [TS]

  exalt rights in do I have a real name [TS]

  here sorry little fancy spreadsheet [TS]

  doesn't catch real names as elf ridin [TS]

  rights in I'm standing in the computer [TS]

  store in my local mall before Christmas [TS]

  1986 John sell me on a Mac Plus over the [TS]

  Apple 2 GS oh the pixels are the size of [TS]

  boulders on the Apple 2 GS the the [TS]

  number of amazing games that are you'll [TS]

  have to play on the Mac Plus will [TS]

  impress any Apple to do yes yes I know [TS]

  the 2 GS is color but a the Mac is the [TS]

  future and B the pixels are tiny [TS]

  and see the Mac has an incredible amount [TS]

  of charm like its there's no contest if [TS]

  you have the money as I say if you have [TS]

  the means I highly recommend one do not [TS]

  do the amplitude yes it is a dead end [TS]

  that was Ferris Bueller by the way all [TS]

  right uh Melvin gun latch writes in how [TS]

  did you initially meet and what got you [TS]

  started making podcast together bits and [TS]

  pieces of the story I've been told many [TS]

  many many times in the past so I'll try [TS]

  to give the chief summarizer in chief [TS]

  version mark when I met when we were [TS]

  little kids [TS]

  your parents or grandparents it isn't [TS]

  entirely important had a house that was [TS]

  on a small lake in upstate New York my [TS]

  grandparents had a had a different house [TS]

  on the same small lake in upstate New [TS]

  York and we would hang out over the [TS]

  summers because basically we're the only [TS]

  kids that were there and we kind of fell [TS]

  out of touch not an angry way just in a [TS]

  you know we were kids and we grew up [TS]

  kind of way and I think one of us would [TS]

  email the other from time to time over [TS]

  the years and then shortly after I think [TS]

  was after we both got married so not too [TS]

  terribly long after college one of us [TS]

  reached out to the other if I recall [TS]

  correctly each of us blames the other [TS]

  for doing this and in both the good way [TS]

  and in the haha way but anyway somehow [TS]

  or another we fell back in touch and and [TS]

  we just kind of rekindled our friendship [TS]

  from forever ago so of the people that I [TS]

  still talk to Marco and are now mutual [TS]

  friend Brad Lawton back who works for [TS]

  light there they are my two oldest [TS]

  friends that I've known for about the [TS]

  same amount of time and it's been [TS]

  something like 20 years now so fast [TS]

  forward to WDC 2011 2012 I forget which [TS]

  one it was I want to say was 2011 Marco [TS]

  and I are in line for the keynote and I [TS]

  forget if John siracusa walked up to us [TS]

  or Marco found John but one way or [TS]

  another John found us and we found John [TS]

  and we hung out for the rest of the day [TS]

  and then John and I kind of became [TS]

  friendly after that and around the time [TS]

  that build and analyze ended in late [TS]

  2012 I guess it was I had started [TS]

  needling Marco about hey we should do a [TS]

  car show we should do a car show even if [TS]

  nobody listens to it'll still be fun we [TS]

  should do a car show spoiler alert [TS]

  nobody listened to it but anyway Marco [TS]

  had the presence of mind to [TS]

  say you know hypercritical just ended I [TS]

  wonder if John would do it too cuz he [TS]

  likes cars and so that's how neutral got [TS]

  started and then we would we would as [TS]

  three nerds are off to do we would start [TS]

  talking about nerdy stuff after the fact [TS]

  and Marco's similar story had the [TS]

  presence of mind to put that on [TS]

  Soundcloud which by the time you listen [TS]

  to this may not even exist anymore he [TS]

  put those episodes on SoundCloud and we [TS]

  realized well people actually like when [TS]

  we talk about things we sort of know [TS]

  about and people are not that interested [TS]

  in us pontificating about cars of which [TS]

  we know nothing about so maybe we should [TS]

  stop with the car thing and start with [TS]

  the tech thing and that's kind of the [TS]

  super abridged version of how this all [TS]

  came to be and so ATP really became a [TS]

  thing I think in March of 2013 and here [TS]

  we are in the middle of 2017 it's it's [TS]

  still a thing so let's start with Marco [TS]

  any other thoughts to add and then John [TS]

  after him only that this is now one of [TS]

  the longest jobs I've ever held [TS]

  instapaper was longer club you I was [TS]

  taking simple water oh my god well done [TS]

  it was about five years so this we're in [TS]

  the were near for now for this does that [TS]

  mean does that mean the clock is ticking [TS]

  worried no I once I once this becomes [TS]

  longest job I've ever held which I'm [TS]

  pretty sure will happen then I will [TS]

  celebrate then there enough John any [TS]

  other thoughts I continue to protest the [TS]

  characterization of not knowing anything [TS]

  about cars speak for yourselves I know a [TS]

  lot about cars [TS]

  I can't really argue with that alright [TS]

  let's see what else is good and do you [TS]

  tape your webcams gentlemen John do you [TS]

  put tape over your webcam nope nope same [TS]

  here Marco are you still and this is a [TS]

  question from mark so mark - mark oh are [TS]

  you still happy choosing go for the [TS]

  overcast back end yeah not really [TS]

  but so first of all only a very small [TS]

  part of the overcast back end is in go [TS]

  most of it is still PHP there's simply a [TS]

  separate go process for the feed [TS]

  crawlers and they'll even it doesn't [TS]

  even do the whole process it just pulls [TS]

  a whole bunch of feeds and fetches their [TS]

  contents for chain [TS]

  Changez if they don't report based for [TS]

  him with cash headers and then if he [TS]

  exchanged feed it then stuffs the [TS]

  contents of that feed into a into a [TS]

  queue which is processed by PHP [TS]

  consumers and the whole web app is all [TS]

  PHP so I would I would not even say I [TS]

  have a go back end I have one go [TS]

  component in the backend and go is go is [TS]

  an interesting language I'm sure a lot [TS]

  of people like it a lot I I like it a [TS]

  lot for certain things but it's very [TS]

  cumbersome to do complex things so like [TS]

  it's really great for what I'm using it [TS]

  now for which is like something that is [TS]

  a fairly simple task but you need to be [TS]

  really fast you need to have a certain [TS]

  concurrency story there but like I would [TS]

  not want to write it now that I've [TS]

  gotten to the language a bit enough to [TS]

  do this I would definitely not want to [TS]

  write a whole web app of complexity you [TS]

  can go just because simple things are [TS]

  cumbersome to do alright we only have [TS]

  time for a few more because I'm about to [TS]

  die and so let's choose a few uh oh god [TS]

  I'm so sorry I don't know how to [TS]

  pronounce this but Jo Shin Marshall I'm [TS]

  so so sorry how did you how did this [TS]

  year's ATP t-shirt campaign work out for [TS]

  you I'm happy to share my not so good [TS]

  experience this is another example of [TS]

  doing something nicely that could have [TS]

  taken a terrible turn so the the shirts [TS]

  are tough thing right because right now [TS]

  we kind of have two choices we can use a [TS]

  company that has a printing press if you [TS]

  will in Europe but doesn't seem to do [TS]

  the best with fulfillment and often [TS]

  times has problems or we can use a [TS]

  company that is only based out of the US [TS]

  which kind of screws the Europeans but [TS]

  is way more reliable and we've fluttered [TS]

  back and forth between these two options [TS]

  I will only speak for myself and say I [TS]

  will probably petition for the US only [TS]

  company next year and understand [TS]

  completely if like a $90 t-shirt it's [TS]

  just too darn much money to ask for from [TS]

  the Europeans because in some cases like [TS]

  with import tax and v80 or whatever that [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  called it got to be unbelievably [TS]

  expensive and in and I am deeply sorry [TS]

  for that I really truly am but but I'd [TS]

  rather have everyone have a good [TS]

  experience and just decide whether or [TS]

  not it's worth the money to them then [TS]

  having a really crummy experience so [TS]

  this is your warning Europeans right now [TS]

  that whenever we do t-shirts next it's [TS]

  probably gonna be expensive and I am [TS]

  sorry John any other thoughts I don't [TS]

  think it was that bad this year like we [TS]

  sold a lot of shirts and there's some [TS]

  percentage where there's gonna be [TS]

  problems I'm more happy having more the [TS]

  larger number of people who are happy [TS]

  with the shirts that they got across the [TS]

  whole world [TS]

  even if it also means a proportionately [TS]

  larger number of people who are unhappy [TS]

  because I'm presuming the only happy [TS]

  people can get Raley's get their money [TS]

  back but it is a trade off and we've [TS]

  tried it both ways and people [TS]

  complaining either way and who knows [TS]

  what we'll do the problem is the problem [TS]

  is that this is not what you know this [TS]

  is not our core competency we are not a [TS]

  t-shirt generating enterprise we are [TS]

  podcast generating enterprise that once [TS]

  a year does this silly thing with [TS]

  t-shirts so the right way to do this [TS]

  it's like oh you got to do it all [TS]

  in-house but we're not a corporation [TS]

  here we're just three people so every [TS]

  year these three people try to figure [TS]

  out how to do t-shirts in a way that [TS]

  makes sense for everybody involved and [TS]

  we have varying degrees of success and [TS]

  guess what we're gonna try again [TS]

  Marco any other thoughts only I'm with [TS]

  you Casey and and I would go a little [TS]

  further to say so so basically you know [TS]

  I'll name names here [TS]

  cotton bureau makes does great work they [TS]

  they have their Austin quality they have [TS]

  awesome people who are there who help [TS]

  with the designs are often do the [TS]

  designs they designed are our ATP [TS]

  rainbow and logo kind of thing like they [TS]

  design that themselves without even us [TS]

  telling them like they there they are [TS]

  they are great they do great work but [TS]

  yeah they're international shipping is [TS]

  really expensive because they print here [TS]

  in the US and and so teespring [TS]

  which is what we use this year and a [TS]

  couple years ago also teespring has [TS]

  printers in multiple locations around [TS]

  the world we've had lots of problems [TS]

  though with teespring [TS]

  so it is cheaper and we actually make [TS]

  more money from the teespring shirts you [TS]

  I think but I would go as far as to say [TS]

  right now on the record I don't think I [TS]

  ever want to use teespring again after [TS]

  this year because in the past the [TS]

  quality issue was a single large mistake [TS]

  it was like when we had that but that [TS]

  wrong font on the source code on the [TS]

  back of the shirt like that was a single [TS]

  large mistake that we worked with them [TS]

  they corrected it they sent everybody [TS]

  new shirts it was one mistake one big [TS]

  mistake that was fixable [TS]

  this year the problem I don't know what [TS]

  has changed at each me I know there was [TS]

  an article about they were having you [TS]

  know layoffs or something so I don't [TS]

  know what's going on over there I don't [TS]

  pay attention but this year it was like [TS]

  a large number of different diffuse [TS]

  small problems like even like the shirts [TS]

  I ordered I have bad printing on like [TS]

  two of the four shirts that I ordered [TS]

  there were things like missing colors [TS]

  things like misalignment where like the [TS]

  logo was slightly slanted instead of [TS]

  being aligned properly like stuff like [TS]

  that just a lot of like small diffuse [TS]

  issues with teespring this year that it [TS]

  seems like maybe they have more printers [TS]

  I don't know what the deal is but it was [TS]

  the kind of problem that you can't [TS]

  really just go to them and have them fix [TS]

  you can't go to them and say hey like a [TS]

  third of these shirts from random color [TS]

  combinations and places are weird in [TS]

  different ways and they're all [TS]

  inconsistent like they're not gonna be [TS]

  able to fix that so I would rather you [TS]

  know going back to a key said I would [TS]

  rather have a have something that I at [TS]

  least know is a good product that is at [TS]

  least coming out right and coming out [TS]

  you know with high quality even if it [TS]

  costs too much for some people to be [TS]

  able to justify I'd rather sell that [TS]

  than to do what we had this year and see [TS]

  people sending in pictures of the sure [TS]

  that they were so excited to get and I [TS]

  see like it's missing a color or its [TS]

  slant it or it's badly a bad print job [TS]

  bad ink like that crushes me so I cannot [TS]

  deal with that again [TS]

  so I would not want to do the one duty [TS]

  spring anymore and I don't care what it [TS]

  does I don't I'd rather not sell [TS]

  t-shirts then sell teespring t-shirts [TS]

  again yeah I'm pretty similar in that in [TS]

  that feeling Marcos since you are just [TS]

  talking let's have you talk a little [TS]

  more why do you do all the ad reads [TS]

  that's my phil cohen by the way I just [TS]

  kind of do we never really talked about [TS]

  it the way it started with neutral the [TS]

  short answer is that that I don't want [TS]

  to do them in case you don't want [TS]

  doesn't want to do them and Marco does [TS]

  them yeah and so neither of us are gonna [TS]

  go hey Marco can we do that thing that [TS]

  would neither of us want to do no we're [TS]

  gonna let Marco so basically it's [TS]

  because Marco is nice enough to do them [TS]

  and Casey and I are nice enough to let [TS]

  him I used to sell them directly myself [TS]

  at the beginning so it started out that [TS]

  I was selling them so it just made sense [TS]

  for me to also read them because I was [TS]

  talking to the sponsors and learning [TS]

  what they wanted me to say and [TS]

  everything else these days I think [TS]

  anybody could do it but yeah I do it and [TS]

  I don't mind doing it and it's part of [TS]

  my workflow and it's totally fine and [TS]

  also a part of the thing like this is [TS]

  true and a lot of relationship [TS]

  situations very often there's one person [TS]

  that cares more about something in [TS]

  somebody else and I have a feeling Marco [TS]

  cares more about the ad reads than [TS]

  either one of us do so anymore they [TS]

  didn't do it the way the way how much [TS]

  tweaking he does to the ad copy and [TS]

  getting it so that he's happy with it [TS]

  III think that is a factor I think if [TS]

  either one of us did ad reads we would [TS]

  do it in a way that Marco does not find [TS]

  satisfactory definitely that is that is [TS]

  a good point all right I think this is [TS]

  going to be the last question and it's [TS]

  it should be a good one a Hans Schrader [TS]

  right saying I'm from Europe could John [TS]

  explain for a foreigner why he is so [TS]

  touchy on the subject of bagels no I'm [TS]

  gonna explain to Casey why he should [TS]

  select the question that I highlighted [TS]

  in yellow in the spreadsheet I can only [TS]

  see but so much of the spreadsheet at [TS]

  once my word 100 oh I am nowhere near [TS]

  there that's why I skipped it okay so [TS]

  the answer the question is the answer [TS]

  the question that John is answering is [TS]

  there are good bagels and there are [TS]

  things that vaguely resembled bagels and [TS]

  John and I both have reasons to prefer [TS]

  actually so this is a very simple thing [TS]

  everyone has foods that they growing up [TS]

  that are like regional or local to their [TS]

  family or whatever but they're nostalgic [TS]

  for it's like I want to have the [TS]

  that I had when I was a child that's the [TS]

  thing and bagels like that for me only [TS]

  bagels are pretty widely regional to the [TS]

  New York metro area so I grew up with [TS]

  the expectation that I can get bagels [TS]

  that taste in a certain way and pizza [TS]

  tastes a certain way pretty much [TS]

  anywhere and as you know a sheltered [TS]

  child who didn't travel too much I [TS]

  assume this was true everywhere in the [TS]

  United States but then when I went off [TS]

  to college I learned this is not true [TS]

  and even a little bit farther north and [TS]

  east everything I got that people called [TS]

  a bagel didn't taste like the things [TS]

  that I when I was growing up and I'd go [TS]

  back to New York and said no they're [TS]

  still there but nobody else has them and [TS]

  same thing with pizza so it's basically [TS]

  that's that's why it's important that [TS]

  bagels are made a certain way in the [TS]

  region where I grew up and because [TS]

  that's the sort of their entry point [TS]

  into the u.s. they have some stake in [TS]

  saying this is the way the bagels are [TS]

  quote unquote supposed to taste right [TS]

  and that I can't get them where I [TS]

  currently live so that's why I'm [TS]

  nostalgic for them that's it same thing [TS]

  with pizza pizza is actually probably [TS]

  worse than bagels but both of them I [TS]

  miss when I was on Long Island I had [TS]

  both oops reasonable for me thanks for [TS]

  sponsors this week betterment Warby [TS]

  Parker and Squarespace and we will see [TS]

  you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin because [TS]

  it was accidental accidental [TS]

  johnny research Marco and Casey wouldn't [TS]

  let him [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental today cas pyl is Esther [TS]

  that's Casey less and a Artem a RM aunty [TS]

  Marco Arment and I are a Syracuse [TS]

  all right so the Zelda question is the [TS]

  one you want John it's the one in yellow [TS]

  I mean it's not it's not enough material [TS]

  for an after show but yeah I can't [TS]

  I have flux on so I can't tell what the [TS]

  hell is yellow right oh god I'm blind [TS]

  oh god I'm blind the problem say fluxes [TS]

  I don't like those things we came to [TS]

  tell you yellow all right [TS]

  Vincent's covered curved Vincent's [TS]

  curved I'll get this one day right so [TS]

  what is your what is the status on your [TS]

  breath of the wild progression did you [TS]

  finish every aspect of the game etc as I [TS]

  did with most questions I'll start this [TS]

  off I still very much enjoy the game but [TS]

  haven't played it in probably like a [TS]

  month and a half [TS]

  I've just been incredibly busy lately [TS]

  and haven't had a chance to sit down [TS]

  with it and also I think we discussed on [TS]

  the show at some point I am not very [TS]

  good at picking the game up and [TS]

  remembering exactly what I was doing [TS]

  when I put it down so I'll have like a [TS]

  particular task or mission or thing I [TS]

  want to accomplish but sometimes is like [TS]

  you know one of the official game tasks [TS]

  but sometimes it's like oh I want to go [TS]

  and get myself ready for this game test [TS]

  by going across the map and doing such [TS]

  and such thing or whatever the case may [TS]

  be and then I never write it down and [TS]

  completely forget and then I get [TS]

  frustrated when I pick the game back up [TS]

  because I I have no memory and need to [TS]

  like reestablish where I am and what I'm [TS]

  doing that's my two cents Marco let's [TS]

  talk Adar you playing Zelda at all no I [TS]

  don't know okay alright moving on to [TS]

  John well Marco can give us a tip update [TS]

  how is she doing it I don't um they're [TS]

  playing it sometimes I can't tell you [TS]

  how far they I have no idea try to [TS]

  participate in your family mar going [TS]

  down there watch you play your stupid [TS]

  sonic games [TS]

  okay watch sometimes but I have I have [TS]

  no idea how to communicate to you how [TS]

  far they are alright so for me and [TS]

  breath in the wild [TS]

  I don't usually 100% games I have 100% [TS]

  did many Zelda's is that series I play a [TS]

  lot I like a lot there's a chance I [TS]

  would have a hundred percent did breath [TS]

  of the wild if it wasn't for the co rock [TS]

  seeds I don't think I'm ever going to [TS]

  just too many of them but i have i'm [TS]

  coming close to doing every non seed [TS]

  thing in the non dlc portion of the game [TS]

  to the point we're also we doing things [TS]

  like having every possible armor set [TS]

  also fully upgraded i'm getting close to [TS]

  that it's like it was in reach and i [TS]

  might end up doing it for the dlc i did [TS]

  the the was it trial of the sword i did [TS]

  that so i master sword is fully charged [TS]

  up to 260 all the time which is awesome [TS]

  and also lasts so much longer time I did [TS]

  all the side quests in the DLC so I've [TS]

  done everything of a hundred percent of [TS]

  the DLC which was tiny or whatever it's [TS]

  not a big deal and like I said I'm don't [TS]

  even have all the shrines left I'm in [TS]

  the hundreds but I'm within striking [TS]

  distance of hundred presenting [TS]

  everything in the main game aside from [TS]

  the core exceeds [TS]