The Accidental Tech Podcast

237: You Are Not a Datacenter


  so someone trying to spell took us there [TS]

  spelling at tu u qu a s it is not [TS]

  derived from Spanish - quoi so that is [TS]

  not the way you are in wrong region of [TS]

  the world so the origin of that that's [TS]

  magnificent [TS]

  I love Sean P wall to the chat earlier [TS]

  people who truck equals trucks trucks [TS]

  you already established that yes like me [TS]

  the stupid Jeep Cherokee with would you [TS]

  stop with that lowered and big it's so [TS]

  ridiculous it's the worst thing ever did [TS]

  I tell the story on neutral I'm it's [TS]

  it's December in Connecticut and for [TS]

  those who are not aware Connecticut [TS]

  doesn't believe in salting the roads [TS]

  they believe in sanding the roads so the [TS]

  entire state is just one big sandbox [TS]

  it's December it's Connecticut and [TS]

  there's sand everywhere and we're at a [TS]

  tea you know so we have to make either [TS]

  left or right it's my friends srt8 Grand [TS]

  Cherokee and similarly to the Eclipse [TS]

  turbo that we were talking about earlier [TS]

  he looks over and says you holding on [TS]

  I'm like what are you talking about [TS]

  we're about to do a 90 degree turn why [TS]

  would I need to hold on and I was like [TS]

  yeah okay sure [TS]

  next thing I know he stands on the gas [TS]

  and we make this 90-degree turn like we [TS]

  were getting shot out of a cannon it was [TS]

  the most amazing thing in the world [TS]

  oh no fast car fine but like it's like [TS]

  let's make something that is not [TS]

  designed to go fast but let's make it go [TS]

  fast you do is the perverse thing and [TS]

  that but but in the end it's an [TS]

  abomination it's just like let's take a [TS]

  chihuahua but make it a pack animal like [TS]

  well we'll have it carry all our [TS]

  suitcases down to the Grand Canyon and [TS]

  if you could do that it's like wow [TS]

  that's the world's strongest Chihuahua [TS]

  but like that is the wrong tool for the [TS]

  job that is a terrible analogy I am [TS]

  disappointed you are usually so good at [TS]

  coming up with decent analogies in a way [TS]

  that I am terrible it was reversed [TS]

  because I'm taking this small thing and [TS]

  making it big but you're it's like [TS]

  making a hippo dance like that's what [TS]

  you're trying to do and it's just like [TS]

  why would you do that [TS]

  there's perfectly good cars that are not [TS]

  big tall tippy gross things made to go [TS]

  off-road that are they want to go fast [TS]

  the Jeep Cherokee doesn't want to go [TS]

  fast what are you doing you're the only [TS]

  one they lower they take a car with a [TS]

  good ground clearance something you [TS]

  lower it like what are you even doing [TS]

  like why you're just just running a car [TS]

  no it's porque no los dos y can't you [TS]

  have both why can't you have this [TS]

  convene [TS]

  car that because you can't because the [TS]

  things like 17th behind rolls over you [TS]

  can't no it doesn't I just explained to [TS]

  you what we did a 90 degree turn at like [TS]

  30 you can Lord as much as you want the [TS]

  center of gravity of that car is not the [TS]

  same as the center of gravity of a [TS]

  sports car that's down low so if [TS]

  somebody offered you a Porsche what's [TS]

  it's not the came and the Cayenne the [TS]

  client and then the can is the even [TS]

  bigger one I would sell it and use that [TS]

  money to probably not buy a better car [TS]

  but if if I was forced to if I was for [TS]

  as I said you have to get a car I would [TS]

  immediately sell it and I would use that [TS]

  money to buy a million other cars that [TS]

  I'd rather have why why do you have hate [TS]

  fun John why do you hate fun in the next [TS]

  suggest a monster-truck Ferrari I can't [TS]

  have both looks like a Ferrari but also [TS]

  you can crush cars into this know what [TS]

  have you done and a monster-truck [TS]

  Ferrari would still look cooler than [TS]

  that Jeep I hate you so much of yet I [TS]

  don't so we should get this show started [TS]

  and as per usual we have to start with [TS]

  some follow-up and you know here's the [TS]

  thing you guys we've been doing the show [TS]

  for what almost three and a half years [TS]

  now is that right because it was 2013 if [TS]

  I'm not mistaken and and you know I knew [TS]

  both of you guys pretty well when we [TS]

  started I knew Marco a little bit better [TS]

  but I knew both you guys pretty well but [TS]

  had you told me in in 2013 yeah you know [TS]

  you're still gonna be doing this in 2017 [TS]

  I'd probably been like that's surprising [TS]

  but okay I'll believe it if you had told [TS]

  me in 2013 well you will have multiple [TS]

  episodes to follow up about Marcos [TS]

  hindquarters I'm not sure I would I [TS]

  believe that a horse I don't know if he [TS]

  has hindquarters exactly Marco's do she [TS]

  great we keep riffing Fanny means [TS]

  something different in the UK so you [TS]

  really did grow up it you know in a [TS]

  mixed environment if you notice I'm very [TS]

  proud of you John touch is derived from [TS]

  that I think it's all just you know well [TS]

  anyway so let's talk about Marcos took [TS]

  us why don't you tell me about whether [TS]

  cushion saddles are good or bad and I [TS]

  don't know if I'm talking to Marco or [TS]

  John [TS]

  Oishi me who says cushion saddles are [TS]

  bad you can tell it's a bike person when [TS]

  they say saddles because yes call them [TS]

  seats but but by kiss this marks sake [TS]

  that's a good dogs mark anyway he says [TS]

  when you sit on a large cushioned seat [TS]

  the cushioning material insurers [TS]

  pressure is placed over the entire [TS]

  region it goes into the nooks and [TS]

  crannies between you and thighs and [TS]

  finds all the sensitive areas since your [TS]

  maximum pressure yes what do you want [TS]

  instead and this was repeated this was [TS]

  repeated many many yes this is repeated [TS]

  by many people who sent in feedback why [TS]

  just focus on his representative what [TS]

  you want instead is contact at your sit [TS]

  bones and nothing else did you know you [TS]

  have sit bones if you read the dozens of [TS]

  emails that talk about sit bones that [TS]

  were sent to our show you would know [TS]

  yeah I was a term the first person was [TS]

  making up but then we got multiple [TS]

  people talking about sit bones [TS]

  apparently I mean I haven't done any [TS]

  more medical research on this topic but [TS]

  multiple people seem to think these are [TS]

  real things yeah and so he says with [TS]

  some honesty soreness at the contact [TS]

  areas ideally the sit bones is to be [TS]

  expected for the new cyclist by the way [TS]

  as many people wrote in to tell Marco [TS]

  that does not buy cast as if he didn't [TS]

  know that rest assured he knows like he [TS]

  likens it to the soreness in your feet [TS]

  when you first start using a standing [TS]

  standing desk numbness is much more [TS]

  ominous sign it means pressure is being [TS]

  placed on the wrong spots cutting off [TS]

  blood supply oppressing unnerve so the [TS]

  consensus seems to be padding aside what [TS]

  you want is most of your weight to be on [TS]

  the sit bones and not sort of distribute [TS]

  it across all the different parts [TS]

  because then no matter how you sit it's [TS]

  like squishing all your soft tissues [TS]

  together and cutting off blood flow [TS]

  whereas apparently I'm guessing there is [TS]

  a path from the sit bones to you know [TS]

  it's not like jacking a car put it that [TS]

  way when you jack up a car you put it on [TS]

  the jack points you notice take the jack [TS]

  and put in a nice overview part [TS]

  underneath your car and start cranking [TS]

  it because bad things will happen so [TS]

  anyway I debated even putting this in [TS]

  here [TS]

  but I feel like this is good information [TS]

  for other people who are getting into [TS]

  bikes are not into bikes and are warned [TS]

  wandering around bike seat stuff the [TS]

  there was very [TS]

  consensus that it's all about you and [TS]

  your sit bones and then making good [TS]

  contact and that not having pressure in [TS]

  other places so there you go thank you [TS]

  for all the bike dust for your feedback [TS]

  about my James d'amour sounds like [TS]

  they're like yeah well it sounds like [TS]

  they're uh they're prejudiced against [TS]

  bikes they're Bicas nice [TS]

  speaking of jacking up cars it always [TS]

  drove me nuts because anytime I wanted [TS]

  to jack up I think was the Subaru I [TS]

  don't think it was a BMW the official [TS]

  Jack point for the rear of the car was [TS]

  to Jack up by the rear differential [TS]

  which just seems like a terrible idea to [TS]

  me they were like dude just put it onto [TS]

  the rear pumpkin and go to town he'll be [TS]

  fine [TS]

  just seems banana really a pretty strong [TS]

  part of the Karman if I personally they [TS]

  know what they're talking about they [TS]

  they made the car they're gonna I know [TS]

  one would think but it just struck me [TS]

  he's wrong anyway Moe Rubin Saul wants [TS]

  to talk about Backblaze backup limits [TS]

  and also wants to know how do folks [TS]

  backup their applications folder because [TS]

  Backblaze exempts it and restructuring [TS]

  it would be hell I don't [TS]

  or at least III don't think I would want [TS]

  to because if I wanted to back [TS]

  everything up in my Applications folder [TS]

  I would rather just recreate it by hand [TS]

  because I don't think I want any of the [TS]

  stuff in there in fact one of the one of [TS]

  my favorite blog posts that I wrote [TS]

  which is mostly for myself as kind of a [TS]

  long-term memory but it's it's talking [TS]

  about here's all the things I would [TS]

  install when creating or when when [TS]

  reinstalling a new Mac or create a [TS]

  starting a new Mac so I used that for [TS]

  the MacBook adorable I used it for the [TS]

  5k iMac I I don't use migration [TS]

  assistant generally speaking because [TS]

  even though it's unlike the Windows when [TS]

  I was using Windows and this is probably [TS]

  Markos era as well that you had to [TS]

  reinstall everything we had to just [TS]

  destroy everything and start a new every [TS]

  six months to clear out all the cruft [TS]

  that just magically appears you know Mac [TS]

  OS is not like that but well I got a new [TS]

  machine yeah it's time yeah I also don't [TS]

  ever backup my Applications folder [TS]

  unless it's like for you know from like [TS]

  automatically doing it from things like [TS]

  time machine or a disk clone I think I [TS]

  think the main advantage to backing up [TS]

  your Applications folder is if you're [TS]

  literally just cloning your entire disk [TS]

  and if you want fast recovery after a [TS]

  disaster and and that there is [TS]

  definitely a role for that you should [TS]

  have some like one of your backup [TS]

  methods should be like a straight-up [TS]

  copy of your entire disk because then if [TS]

  you do have a disk failure you can you [TS]

  can restore that on to a new disk or a [TS]

  new computer very quickly compared to [TS]

  downloading things off of an internet [TS]

  backup an Internet backup is like a last [TS]

  resort because it is you know slow or it [TS]

  goes over the internet you might have [TS]

  limited upstream so you might not want [TS]

  to upload every single thing you you [TS]

  have on your disk if you can you know [TS]

  easily get it through other means so [TS]

  there is definitely a role for including [TS]

  applications folders in backups but I [TS]

  totally see why it's not included in [TS]

  Backblaze as cloud backup by default [TS]

  again we should clarity should disclose [TS]

  the back place is a frequent sponsor of [TS]

  our show but I'm really I'm so I'm [TS]

  saying this probably to defend them but [TS]

  also you know you know not because they [TS]

  are paying us sometimes but simply [TS]

  because I think that it makes sense to [TS]

  exclude that for a cloud backup because [TS]

  the the purpose of cloud backup was like [TS]

  last resort wear and applications [TS]

  folders are really easy to reconstruct [TS]

  with just time you know you're not [TS]

  permanently losing data there you're [TS]

  just losing some time to redownload [TS]

  applications reinstall applications and [TS]

  everything but yeah for a full disk copy [TS]

  method like Time Machine or super duper [TS]

  Carbon Copy clone or things like that [TS]

  any kind of disk cloning method it makes [TS]

  sense to include that just for speed of [TS]

  recovery so we talked about this a long [TS]

  time ago one of our earlier shows about [TS]

  backups I think it was when we were all [TS]

  just started using back plays actually [TS]

  before maybe they sponsored the show it [TS]

  was this it was discussing like the the [TS]

  fact the back plays it excludes a lot of [TS]

  stuff and they had like a hard-coded [TS]

  they have a thinking where you can say [TS]

  what you want exclude but they have a [TS]

  hard-coded exclude list and it excluded [TS]

  stuff that I wanted backed up so at that [TS]

  time I hacked up whatever XML file they [TS]

  had buried somewhere in the slash [TS]

  library folder not the home guard to run [TS]

  but the one at the top level the disk [TS]

  there was some XML file somewhere that [TS]

  you could mess with to make it back up [TS]

  things that are in the quote unquote [TS]

  hard quote coded exclude this and I [TS]

  think that technique still works and [TS]

  it's just as unsupported and dangerous [TS]

  and do it your own risk but it is the [TS]

  thing that I do frequently that file [TS]

  moves around and [TS]

  Changez or whatever but I'm pretty sure [TS]

  it's still working for me so basically [TS]

  you can make back plays back up stuff [TS]

  that it says it doesn't want to back up [TS]

  if you're willing to live a little [TS]

  dangerously but like Marcus that you [TS]

  like you should just be though sometimes [TS]

  these applications like it's annoying [TS]

  but none of your data is there you [TS]

  didn't write those applications right [TS]

  and these days the chances are very good [TS]

  that you have some reasonably convenient [TS]

  way to get those applications back the [TS]

  company you bought it from has some [TS]

  record that you bought it they can let [TS]

  you read download it even if it came on [TS]

  plastic disk hoping you're saving those [TS]

  plastic discs somewhere make you're not [TS]

  saving them I hoping you can contact the [TS]

  vendor that you bought it from and say [TS]

  hey my house burned down [TS]

  I lost my plastic discs can I get the [TS]

  software back but realistically speaking [TS]

  most applications you're gonna want to [TS]

  launch these days you have to be able to [TS]

  download them some way and if you could [TS]

  download them there's probably some [TS]

  record on their servers about the fact [TS]

  that you own it so it may be annoying [TS]

  but like Margo said like if you find [TS]

  yourself restoring from an internet [TS]

  backup many many things have gone wrong [TS]

  and you're probably just so happy that [TS]

  you have your precious data preserved in [TS]

  any form that you're not you know you're [TS]

  gonna be spending like days and days [TS]

  possibly weeks restoring anyway so don't [TS]

  worry about it but yeah but I but I'd [TS]

  visit some limited backups I'm like you [TS]

  know what go ahead backup my [TS]

  Applications folder why not so CrashPlan [TS]

  does have a Native Client for Macs maybe [TS]

  so we've gotten a lot of feedback saying [TS]

  that the enterprise crash plan client is [TS]

  actually native and if you recall one of [TS]

  the things that really drives me [TS]

  freaking bananas about crash plan as a [TS]

  consumer is that it's a a Java based [TS]

  cross-platform utter garbage app I guess [TS]

  saying Java based in utter garbage is [TS]

  redundant but here here we are [TS]

  that joke will never stop being funny [TS]

  I'm sorry so when he went zero negative [TS]

  feedback on it I know I'm surprised so [TS]

  anyway so it's there's there's been a [TS]

  lot of people coming coming to us saying [TS]

  hey the enterprise client is actually [TS]

  native so it may not be so bad once you [TS]

  do the migration except maybe not so [TS]

  fill story wrote in to say to us that he [TS]

  just upgraded to crash plan for small [TS]

  business which to be fair is not [TS]

  necessarily the same as enterprise and [TS]

  he said it's the same crappy Java app [TS]

  and he said that he was [TS]

  only allowed to use version 4.9 which I [TS]

  guess is still Java not the enterprise [TS]

  version which is six dot backs so tread [TS]

  carefully [TS]

  I still haven't taken any action on my [TS]

  backup strategy yet because I'm [TS]

  procrastinating and sticking my head in [TS]

  the sand like an ostrich trying to [TS]

  pretend that it's not not an issue but [TS]

  be wary that that things may not be all [TS]

  roses and daffodils in the crash plane [TS]

  for small business category I'm [TS]

  wondering how you can get if it's [TS]

  possible to get that native version even [TS]

  if you're a small business customer but [TS]

  I've been running the Java version for [TS]

  everything I said it's not like it [TS]

  doesn't bother me I don't see the [TS]

  application I just see the icon in the [TS]

  menu bar it's probably using a lot more [TS]

  memory and CPU than I want but it has [TS]

  pretty good controls about you can tell [TS]

  it don't even start doing a backup [TS]

  unless the machine has been idle for a [TS]

  certain period of time you can always [TS]

  stop it if it's in the middle of doing [TS]

  something and honestly with a with a Big [TS]

  Mac with lots of RAM and an SSD you just [TS]

  don't notice it running even though it's [TS]

  a bloated java application and you know [TS]

  it's probably doing ridiculous things [TS]

  and if you bring in fact if ax t monitor [TS]

  you may get sad about it but you know [TS]

  you can always pause it and tell it not [TS]

  to run now and then just do your stuff [TS]

  and then let it run when you're away or [TS]

  you don't have to see what it's doing to [TS]

  your computer fair enough speaking of [TS]

  CrashPlan the year is a 5 terabyte [TS]

  migration limit which I was not aware of [TS]

  so this is a crash plain support article [TS]

  entitled migrate your crash plan for [TS]

  home account to crash-land for small [TS]

  business it's dated a little over a week [TS]

  ago and it says that hey your backup do [TS]

  my backups continue automatically and [TS]

  the backup type cloud backups to [TS]

  CrashPlan central CrashPlan central [TS]

  being their cloud offering does it [TS]

  continue yes except very large backups [TS]

  over 5 terabytes and just seconds ago I [TS]

  took a look to see how big my latest [TS]

  backup was to crash playing central [TS]

  would anyone like to guess how big it [TS]

  was five point one five point three [TS]

  terabytes whoo yeah I'm just under five [TS]

  I'm like four point eight or something [TS]

  so I'm happy [TS]

  I've already already done this [TS]

  conversion it already updated your [TS]

  client it updated my client to thee it's [TS]

  still the Java client but the color [TS]

  scheme is different I'm pretty sure [TS]

  that's you know interesting so I'm [TS]

  running for point nine power whatever [TS]

  but yeah just it just continued my [TS]

  backups man that's that's mmm I'm [TS]

  jealous because apparently I'm good so [TS]

  it's not that I can't use this new home [TS]

  and business [TS]

  or small business thing but apparently [TS]

  I'm gonna have to re-up load everything [TS]

  all right you contact them and say very [TS]

  large backups over five terabytes well [TS]

  I'm a little bit can't you just you know [TS]

  grandfather me in I'm close like I don't [TS]

  know yeah something like that I don't [TS]

  know I'm sad hi I need to take action on [TS]

  this I just I really don't want to I [TS]

  just want it to go away and ignoring it [TS]

  does not make it go away but I wish all [TS]

  right so arc AR Q versus Backblaze [TS]

  versus Claire crash plan on saving Mac [TS]

  metadata's so this is something I've [TS]

  never paid attention to because I don't [TS]

  really care enough even though I [TS]

  probably should so as the person who is [TS]

  most likely to care about this John why [TS]

  don't you tell me about what's going on [TS]

  here larger story like maybe two years [TS]

  ago I think back when backways was [TS]

  starting to come to prominence and arc [TS]

  was a lot newer than it is now and one [TS]

  of Arc's big selling points was hey we [TS]

  back up all your mac metadata like every [TS]

  little bit of it all the labels and the [TS]

  dates in the comment field and like [TS]

  every little weird but the finder flags [TS]

  and all the stuff we back it all up and [TS]

  there's another program I'm not sure if [TS]

  it's associated with the arc if it's [TS]

  written by the same guy or if it's [TS]

  totally independent but called back up [TS]

  bouncer that was trying to say if you [TS]

  make a backup and restore the backup is [TS]

  it exactly like it was before down to [TS]

  the bit down to every single piece of [TS]

  metadata right then you could care more [TS]

  or less about different things at [TS]

  various times people who use like labels [TS]

  like Mac Mac OS is labels where you can [TS]

  label your items in the finder with [TS]

  different colors and give the colors [TS]

  names and stuff like that if you use [TS]

  that extensively or tags you know that [TS]

  is the expansion of labels like if you [TS]

  use that stuff extensively and you do a [TS]

  backup but like that's how you organize [TS]

  your files right and you do a backup and [TS]

  you're restoring all that stuff is gone [TS]

  that is essentially data loss for you so [TS]

  you care a lot about that that metadata [TS]

  back up bouncer is you know down to the [TS]

  bit thing I remember like super duper [TS]

  would fail on backup bouncer because it [TS]

  didn't restore permissions on things [TS]

  that didn't have the the rights to [TS]

  restore like it changed the ownership or [TS]

  changed some you know like [TS]

  it's very picky about exactly what you [TS]

  want to have but the general line from [TS]

  these companies about why their products [TS]

  don't do well on backup bouncer is like [TS]

  well we are not a bit for bit imaging [TS]

  system we are data backup solution so [TS]

  you're not gonna get your discs back but [TS]

  for bid exactly how it was you're just [TS]

  gonna get your data back CrashPlan [TS]

  reportedly backs up metadata better than [TS]

  back plays back plays drops almost all [TS]

  of it on the floor and just backs up [TS]

  your data crash mine does better arc is [TS]

  apparently 100% like it'll get every [TS]

  single little bit because that's you [TS]

  know that's it's the bespoke artisanal [TS]

  handcrafted backup program just for mac [TS]

  users and a lot of people ask me how if [TS]

  you know that since I love all my [TS]

  metadata and everything well one of the [TS]

  reason is I don't use labels and tags a [TS]

  is because I know how they're [TS]

  implemented in its gross but B I fear [TS]

  how they how that stuff will if that [TS]

  stuff will survive so I wouldn't want to [TS]

  rely on it and have it get lost in some [TS]

  kind of backup thing and like we said [TS]

  before online backup is absolutely the [TS]

  last resort so it being the lowest [TS]

  fidelity backup I have SuperDuper being [TS]

  the highest fidelity where it's pretty [TS]

  much exactly the bit for a bit the discs [TS]

  that I had Time Machine kind of being in [TS]

  the middle and then back plays being the [TS]

  lowest fidelity I'm okay with that right [TS]

  there's this trade-off you're paying [TS]

  five dollars a month to store some [TS]

  obscene amount of memory and someone [TS]

  else's server [TS]

  you know I'm I understand again if that [TS]

  if I find myself restoring from that so [TS]

  many things have gone wrong that I just [TS]

  accept that you know every little bit of [TS]

  metadata won't be there but because of [TS]

  that I also don't use the metadata for [TS]

  any it's not an essential part of my [TS]

  workflow for organizing my files just [TS]

  because so many things not just backup [TS]

  software but so many things are not [TS]

  won't won't honor and copy that metadata [TS]

  like the Apple's own CP commands that MV [TS]

  commands duffle for the most part honor [TS]

  it but lots of other tools like even if [TS]

  you install the third-party builds of [TS]

  our sink and haven't compiled it with [TS]

  the right options that might not bring [TS]

  your extended after it's over and if you [TS]

  less you don't pass the right flags and [TS]

  stuff like I just can't rely on myself [TS]

  to be careful to preserve that stuff so [TS]

  I never put on anything I really care [TS]

  about in Medway like that would just sad [TS]

  because I wish it was pervasive and [TS]

  supported everywhere but the lowest [TS]

  common denominator which is [TS]

  actually incorrect expression but you [TS]

  all know what I mean is so much lower [TS]

  than what it is on the Mac so the the [TS]

  common set of metadata that you can be [TS]

  confident is going to survive everywhere [TS]

  it's higher than it has ever been but [TS]

  still way lower than what Mac OS [TS]

  supports so backup programs being on [TS]

  that lower end I just accept is another [TS]

  sad reality just like filename [TS]

  extensions sorry John [TS]

  someday we'll get there someday we'll [TS]

  find it The Rainbow Connection that one [TS]

  right over my head [TS]

  I know I've heard it before I think it's [TS]

  a Beatles lyric have you had close close [TS]

  Margo have you shown Adam The Muppet [TS]

  movie oh there we go no yeah it's a [TS]

  little bit slow pace for kids because [TS]

  it's just like a 70s movie and movies [TS]

  were slower back then but still got some [TS]

  good songs you know what I loved Charles [TS]

  Bronson was in with like the great [TS]

  Muppet Caper or something like that it [TS]

  was another Muppets movie I forget where [TS]

  what what the official title was but I [TS]

  remember loving that as a kid and like [TS]

  many years ago I watched it with Aaron [TS]

  in you as an adult and I was like oh [TS]

  this movie is not that the original [TS]

  movie though is is very sweet and has [TS]

  good songs and good pressure values and [TS]

  Kermit rides a bicycle so Marco can [TS]

  watch it and feel some kinship what kind [TS]

  of saddle does he use yeah it's hard to [TS]

  tell is he is he properly fit on his sit [TS]

  bones no frogs have sit bones I'm still [TS]

  not sure if people have sit bones [TS]

  technically he's got someone's hand up [TS]

  his butt but oh my god through the magic [TS]

  own special effects he's riding a bike [TS]

  it's pretty cool we were sponsored this [TS]

  week by Casper the best bed for better [TS]

  sleep go to Casper calm slash ATP to [TS]

  learn more and dive deeper into the [TS]

  science behind the perfect mattress most [TS]

  people don't really think about the [TS]

  science behind a mattress the Casper [TS]

  team on the other hand is really a bunch [TS]

  of engineering nerds who dig as far as [TS]

  possible into the science of sleep and [TS]

  the technology to deliver it [TS]

  Casper combines pressure relieving [TS]

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  with just the right sink and just the [TS]

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  consumers they don't sell through [TS]

  showroom [TS]

  or all these you know middlemen [TS]

  distributors they sell directly to you [TS]

  and they have free shipping and returns [TS]

  within the US and Canada [TS]

  now it sounds kind of crazy to buy a [TS]

  mattress online but Casper has this [TS]

  figured out they have you covered they [TS]

  know that you will have to actually [TS]

  sleep on a mattress to know whether it's [TS]

  right for you so what they do they ship [TS]

  it to you for free and they offer a 100 [TS]

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  behind the perfect mattress and get $50 [TS]

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  comm slash ATP using code ATP at [TS]

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  once again learn more about the science [TS]

  behind Casper's perfect mattress and get [TS]

  $50 towards any mattress purchase at [TS]

  Casper comm slash ATP using code ATP [TS]

  thank you so much to Casper for [TS]

  sponsoring this show all right so let's [TS]

  talk about a lot of people have written [TS]

  in with a a lot of anger about Outback [TS]

  blazes 30-day retention policy so this [TS]

  is something that I could not possibly [TS]

  care less about but there's a lot of [TS]

  very grumpy people about it so if I [TS]

  understand things right back leis has [TS]

  said if you have a a say external hard [TS]

  drive that is physically connected to [TS]

  your computer and this qualifies for [TS]

  Backblaze backups if you don't plug it [TS]

  in every 30 days then they will delete [TS]

  those backups so let's say you know I [TS]

  have an external hard drive that has a [TS]

  bunch of pictures on it if I don't plug [TS]

  it in at least once a month at the end [TS]

  of a month if I haven't plugged it in [TS]

  that place will delete all those files [TS]

  and there's a lot of people that are [TS]

  really really grumpy about this that [TS]

  have written us and are like why aren't [TS]

  you talking about this how can you let [TS]

  this [TS]

  Stan I just don't care like why I don't [TS]

  understand why people think it's [TS]

  acceptable for backplates to hold on to [TS]

  this data in perpetuity just because [TS]

  they're paying them five dollars a month [TS]

  or whatever it is CrashPlan does it for [TS]

  ten dollars a month I mean it all comes [TS]

  down to the business model oh thank you [TS]

  yeah back plays the corporate no for ten [TS]

  dollars is the new plan that they are [TS]

  doing okay so back plays has been on [TS]

  Twitter talking to people and they say [TS]

  like oh we consider revisiting this [TS]

  policy at Baba but yeah it just comes [TS]

  down to the economics if this is a way [TS]

  for Backblaze to make it so they don't [TS]

  lose money and cancel this plan because [TS]

  you can imagine just hooking up every [TS]

  hard drive you have and pushing it up [TS]

  and then just never reconnecting it I'd [TS]

  do it because I keep the most of my hard [TS]

  drives unmounted and occasionally back [TS]

  plays yells at me and tells me I haven't [TS]

  mounted one in a while I just mounted in [TS]

  it and it's fine like it sends you a [TS]

  reminder you're not going to not know [TS]

  that it's happening [TS]

  but if Backblaze wanted to like revisit [TS]

  this what they would have to do is say [TS]

  you can start as much as you want but [TS]

  now we're gonna have to charge you on [TS]

  some sort of usage basis maybe there's a [TS]

  flat fee up to a certain size but once [TS]

  you get beyond that you have to pay an [TS]

  additional X number of dollars for [TS]

  different you know you know like it [TS]

  doesn't have to be exactly I like Hart [TS]

  you pay for every bite like s3 it can [TS]

  still be the insurance model where [TS]

  everybody pays the same amount and most [TS]

  people do very little but a few people [TS]

  do a lot it all evens out like that's [TS]

  their business model to support your [TS]

  ability to just hook up a hard drive to [TS]

  terabyte hard drive once let it back up [TS]

  over the course of the week and then [TS]

  just file it away in a shelf confident [TS]

  to those two terabytes will be there [TS]

  forever back blades will store those two [TS]

  terabytes for you no problem you just [TS]

  got to give them enough money to make it [TS]

  worth their while and how much more do [TS]

  you have to give it than $5 a month I [TS]

  don't know they can figure out how the [TS]

  math works but for all the people asking [TS]

  for that feature it's going to cost you [TS]

  more money and I think those people will [TS]

  be willing to cost more money so I think [TS]

  back please [TS]

  should come up with the plan that has [TS]

  slightly different policies that is [TS]

  priced slightly differently and for its [TS]

  extreme users they would use that they [TS]

  would get more money out of the extreme [TS]

  users and I think they would just have [TS]

  happier customers overall because most [TS]

  people don't care about this but the [TS]

  people who do as we noted are you know [TS]

  very very worked up about it so that [TS]

  plays you leave money on the table go [TS]

  take take some money from the people who [TS]

  want their stuff to be stored forever I [TS]

  think one of the main roots of that [TS]

  anger is like you know when you know [TS]

  Backblaze advertisers [TS]

  unlimited and unlimited in computers is [TS]

  never really unlimited and there's [TS]

  there's always exceptions to that [TS]

  because it's impossible to build a [TS]

  business on being truly unlimited and [TS]

  you know usually like the it's easy to [TS]

  understand business models that don't [TS]

  claim to be unlimited and just show you [TS]

  their pricing and their limits right [TS]

  upfront and so I think the people who [TS]

  were angry about that are probably angry [TS]

  because they expect truly unlimited [TS]

  because that's how it's advertised and [TS]

  this is an exception to that but you [TS]

  know that's again like that's you know I [TS]

  think you put a well that's why they [TS]

  were able to stay business is because of [TS]

  limitations like that that are I think [TS]

  pretty reasonable limitations yeah like [TS]

  that's not a secret [TS]

  they're gonna pop that log in your faces [TS]

  I think they popped the first I like a [TS]

  box in like 10 days or 14 days like hey [TS]

  I haven't seen this books in this disc [TS]

  in 10 days perhaps you want to plug it [TS]

  back in like they're secretly trying to [TS]

  delete all your data but the this is [TS]

  where the economics work for five [TS]

  dollars you can really start as much as [TS]

  you want for five dollars but you can't [TS]

  like briefly connect the hard drive your [TS]

  computer like have your your friends [TS]

  come and bring their hard drive so come [TS]

  up to your computer let them back up and [TS]

  then take the hard drive back to the [TS]

  house and never visit it again now you [TS]

  have a permanent backup of their stuff [TS]

  just in case they lose it like that's [TS]

  that's the model they're trying to avoid [TS]

  people just you know using it as a way [TS]

  station to drop off a couple terabytes [TS]

  right that's not that's not sustainable [TS]

  for five dollars a month flat fee yep so [TS]

  a lot of other people have written in [TS]

  and said hey you know you I don't know [TS]

  if you guys were aware but you all have [TS]

  seen ologies and and Synology does have [TS]

  a peer-to-peer backup system strategy [TS]

  etc why don't you do that and I will be [TS]

  the bad guy and say I don't want to [TS]

  share my space with you two jerks and [TS]

  it's mine and I don't want to share and [TS]

  I I would probably if either of you [TS]

  asked me be willing to offer up what I [TS]

  could but last I heard John you said [TS]

  last episode of the one before [TS]

  intersting there's no room in the end I [TS]

  don't have a squared espera I'm certain [TS]

  reference here yeah exactly so John [TS]

  doesn't have John doesn't have any X [TS]

  expand any excess space to offer and [TS]

  thus if you don't have any excess space [TS]

  I won't have enough [TS]

  to offer you a backup Marco and I maybe [TS]

  could set this up but I don't know I [TS]

  just I feel like this is the sort of [TS]

  thing where I should be paying a company [TS]

  to handle this for me which is what I [TS]

  will probably end up doing and and I [TS]

  don't I don't feel comfortable asking [TS]

  even you guys who I think would probably [TS]

  say you know all things being equal [TS]

  could probably say yeah sure you can [TS]

  back up to my Salah gee I don't feel [TS]

  comfortable talking to you guys about it [TS]

  let alone you know anyone else I might [TS]

  know so I don't really view this as a [TS]

  reasonable option for me but maybe I'm [TS]

  just being a big baby yeah I don't it's [TS]

  not a reasonable option for most people [TS]

  and and I wouldn't say yes because I [TS]

  don't want the responsibility of holding [TS]

  your data like the whole point of of [TS]

  cloud backup is I want it to be far away [TS]

  from my house so if the house burned [TS]

  down is okay and I want it to be [TS]

  someplace where it's somebody's job to [TS]

  make sure my data is actually there a [TS]

  lot of people do this where they do a [TS]

  hard drive and and back it up and put it [TS]

  in a relative's house that is better [TS]

  than nothing I'm not gonna discourage [TS]

  you from doing that but in that [TS]

  situation I've been in a many times what [TS]

  always happens is you forget to keep [TS]

  bringing the hard drive back and forth [TS]

  because it's a pain and if it's Network [TS]

  base like I don't have to do that it's [TS]

  all magic over the network is the person [TS]

  at the other end invested in making sure [TS]

  that your backup continues to be [TS]

  successful and that you know they're the [TS]

  the hard drive that's doing it isn't [TS]

  filling up or doesn't have some bad [TS]

  sectors and stuff like that's not their [TS]

  job and they don't want to be [TS]

  responsible for that and if something [TS]

  goes wrong now you're mad at like a [TS]

  friend or relative and there have been [TS]

  like products on Kickstarter and stuff [TS]

  to try to do with strangers like we'll [TS]

  all share our date it'll be a big [TS]

  distributed p2p cloud like so far that [TS]

  hasn't worked out it's a good it's a [TS]

  good idea if I think if space was [TS]

  cheaper and bandwidth is more would work [TS]

  out but right now I hardly recommend [TS]

  sending your data to some company whose [TS]

  job it is to make sure your data safe [TS]

  doesn't mean the company's gonna be [TS]

  perfect either but hey if the company [TS]

  screws things up you can feel fine about [TS]

  being mad at the company B you can sue [TS]

  the company maybe probably not because [TS]

  of their User Agreement but anyway like [TS]

  you can get as mad as you want about [TS]

  them they have deep pockets so if you [TS]

  want some sort of requests you can get [TS]

  it you would never want to be in this [TS]

  relationship with a relative or a friend [TS]

  we're through some faults that you will [TS]

  argue about your your backup your [TS]

  off-site backup is corrupt [TS]

  or Unruh or not there or something goes [TS]

  wrong or whatever and then people being [TS]

  bitter about the harddrive space you're [TS]

  using if they want to reclaim that to [TS]

  put like more the Ritz blu-rays on it's [TS]

  just it is not a relationship you want [TS]

  to be in I do not recommend this even [TS]

  though there's lots of good software for [TS]

  it that makes it easy [TS]

  oh but like I said all that said if [TS]

  that's your only option like if that's [TS]

  the only thing you can do whether it's [TS]

  carrying hard drives back and forth in a [TS]

  car or having your two Synology to talk [TS]

  to each other it is better than nothing [TS]

  but I really recommend making a company [TS]

  do it you know I think I would almost [TS]

  feel I'm not even almost I think I would [TS]

  probably feel more comfortable saying to [TS]

  one of you guys I am shipping a Synology [TS]

  to your house a second Synology I don't [TS]

  want to run your Synology I don't want [TS]

  to run your hardware in my house it's [TS]

  hard enough running my own stuff my kids [TS]

  gonna spill peanut butter on it my [TS]

  basements gonna flood the mice are gonna [TS]

  poop in it it's just no I totally [TS]

  understand that yeah yeah like yeah I I [TS]

  also I don't want the responsibility you [TS]

  know like it's it's much less about you [TS]

  know the about the the physical having [TS]

  the hardware or having the space or the [TS]

  money required to run and empower it [TS]

  like it's more about I don't want you to [TS]

  depend on this box in my house can I [TS]

  said you know in my garage that's [TS]

  probably overheating itself slowly like [TS]

  it I don't need like I don't need the [TS]

  stress of that and that like and I don't [TS]

  I would hate to be in the position where [TS]

  your stuff went bad and you were [TS]

  depending on me and this thing being [TS]

  perfectly operating in my house to fix [TS]

  that and and talk about like you know [TS]

  that's fine for the three of us like [TS]

  most people don't have friends with [TS]

  giant Nast boxes in their garage like [TS]

  this is not a generalizable solution it [TS]

  barely would even work for us and we [TS]

  have giant Nash boxes with giant hard [TS]

  drives and fast internet connections and [TS]

  we're all friends like most people don't [TS]

  have that kind of setup and even the [TS]

  ones like us who do probably shouldn't [TS]

  do that if we have other options I think [TS]

  it's safer to lend people money give [TS]

  people money you could just say it's [TS]

  just a gift just you never have to pay [TS]

  me back here it is we're friends whereas [TS]

  the day that it's like it's like you're [TS]

  keeping the safe for me right like it's [TS]

  easier to keep [TS]

  children safe than their data busy you [TS]

  forget the stupid hard drivers there you [TS]

  forget if it's still running you forget [TS]

  a thing czar going bad the person on the [TS]

  other end doesn't know that their thing [TS]

  is failing because you have some it's [TS]

  just it's not you are not a data center [TS]

  you don't have a climate control thing [TS]

  with aisles and miles of Iraq computers [TS]

  you know like just you don't have that [TS]

  you don't have redundant power backups [TS]

  you don't just you're not in the [TS]

  business of being a backup thing so it's [TS]

  just it's just gonna be sad all around [TS]

  because if something goes wrong then you [TS]

  know what do you do you just sit there [TS]

  and try not to blame each other but then [TS]

  you do feel bad about it like I feel [TS]

  like it's a much better feeling for you [TS]

  to back up stuff the back plays and then [TS]

  you're all your data goes corrupt them [TS]

  back plays at the last moment like then [TS]

  you just be righteously mad at back [TS]

  plays being mad at corporation is what [TS]

  Americans are best at we don't want [TS]

  don't want every relationships just you [TS]

  know I'm never flying Delta again like [TS]

  you can do that all you want fine you [TS]

  don't want to sacrifice your personal [TS]

  relationships but she'll keep you [TS]

  vibrant and extend your life according [TS]

  to all the studies yeah it's funny bring [TS]

  that up because the unfortunately named [TS]

  pahis food in the chat said backing up [TS]

  each other storage is like lending money [TS]

  don't do it with your friends do it with [TS]

  the business and I agree with that like [TS]

  I said I think lending money is better [TS]

  because it is a it's a yeah if it is [TS]

  better than backing up because lending [TS]

  money you can lend it and say oh I'm [TS]

  pretending this is loan but in my heart [TS]

  of hearts I'm realizing this is a gift [TS]

  and just say I never expect to see this [TS]

  money back and I'll be fine with it [TS]

  because it's a nice thing to do there's [TS]

  no ongoing relationship where you're [TS]

  like maintaining that money for the [TS]

  person or anything be more like if they [TS]

  gave you instead of putting their money [TS]

  into savings they gave it the money's [TS]

  free to you to invest and that would be [TS]

  the kind of responsibility you're [TS]

  getting for data it's like and then they [TS]

  come back and say house hasn't all that [TS]

  money I gave you [TS]

  how's that investment going like yeah [TS]

  yeah it's it's going it's going okay [TS]

  then they get mad at you why did you do [TS]

  a better job of investing my money it's [TS]

  like just why didn't you not make me do [TS]

  this yeah and I need to be clear I agree [TS]

  with you that lending money to a friend [TS]

  is maybe not the best thing in the world [TS]

  but it is way better than being a backup [TS]

  strategy so to hopefully come to the end [TS]

  of this was only a couple more things [TS]

  about backups Jon tell me about Synology [TS]

  see two backups [TS]

  this is still in beta and [TS]

  apparently a thing a Synology thing i [TS]

  think it's only in germany - so it's not [TS]

  really relevant dust but Synology has [TS]

  their own everyone's to riff on s-3b - [TS]

  now you got see - we're running out of [TS]

  letters and number columns here your [TS]

  Synology will do a back up of itself - [TS]

  Synology zone cloud storage they just [TS]

  reselling s3 I have no idea but anyway [TS]

  paper on no that's that's a thing we'll [TS]

  put the link in the show notes if you [TS]

  have a Synology you're interested in [TS]

  looking at the c2 beta [TS]

  especially if you live in your Frankfurt [TS]

  Germany or wherever the hell this is [TS]

  check it out yeah that it's expensive [TS]

  though it's a are we selling s3 it's 70 [TS]

  euros per terabyte per year so that's 83 [TS]

  dollars ish according to duck taco per [TS]

  terabyte and if I have five that's four [TS]

  hundred and fifteen dollars a year for [TS]

  me that is not inexpensive yeah I think [TS]

  back lays b2 is still probably the [TS]

  cheapest option I know of for like like [TS]

  actual paper gig but otherwise you know [TS]

  unlimited in usage as long as you pay [TS]

  for it kind of kind of thing like I [TS]

  don't I don't know of anything cheaper [TS]

  than b2 yet but I'm happy to hear [TS]

  suggestions yeah [TS]

  additionally friend of the show Dan [TS]

  Morin has written a post for Mac world [TS]

  which is apparently still a thing saying [TS]

  why the Mac needs iCloud backup so why [TS]

  not I guess right I mean iCloud is [TS]

  foolproof and definitely is a [TS]

  justifiable use is is backing up all of [TS]

  your data that you cannot possibly lose [TS]

  why wouldn't that work it's backing up a [TS]

  lot of data a lot of iOS devices are [TS]

  backed up I got only Apple knows for [TS]

  sure how many of them I mean you get [TS]

  some of that of iCloud backup stuff I [TS]

  forget to sum it's some obscenely small [TS]

  amount that you get five gigs I think [TS]

  it's five gigs yeah right [TS]

  but anyway and you could pay for more [TS]

  but the mattress doesn't have that and [TS]

  this is no those cases where the Mac [TS]

  doesn't have a feature that iOS had for [TS]

  years and years and a lot of people [TS]

  asked about like when is when is Apple [TS]

  gonna do a lot back for the Mac it seems [TS]

  inevitable if they eventually get around [TS]

  to it because they already do iCloud [TS]

  backups is not a new business they would [TS]

  do the same model of giving you a [TS]

  useless amount of storage for free and [TS]

  then you pay for more and I bet people [TS]

  will use it because why shouldn't Apple [TS]

  be in the cloud backup business for all [TS]

  this devices basically in the cloud [TS]

  packing business for all of his devices [TS]

  - a rounding error which we [TS]

  the Mac these days so I hope Apple does [TS]

  do that because I mean first of all what [TS]

  choice do we have for cloud backups on [TS]

  the phone it's not like we can use [TS]

  Backblaze or CrashPlan on our phone we [TS]

  all do iCloud backups even if we also do [TS]

  iTunes backups and for the most part it [TS]

  seems to sort of work and it's certainly [TS]

  better than nothing so Apple should do [TS]

  that eventually it also just like you [TS]

  know the you can you can make jokes [TS]

  about like how bad Apple services have [TS]

  been so far in the past and everything [TS]

  that but I think I fled back up to [TS]

  pretty solid like and most of their [TS]

  recent services are pretty solid you [TS]

  know some of their intelligence based [TS]

  things like Siri and and conserve ads [TS]

  could use some work but like the the [TS]

  stuff that's about just like storing [TS]

  your data responsibly and syncing it and [TS]

  everything that stuff has been pretty [TS]

  solid for a while now so I am totally [TS]

  you know fine with the idea at Apple [TS]

  offering this and it's one of those [TS]

  things it's similar to like when they [TS]

  launched Time Machine the there was a [TS]

  lot of criticism about various [TS]

  limitations or requirements Time Machine [TS]

  had but like the one thing you can [TS]

  always say in defensive moves like this [TS]

  is well it's better than people who use [TS]

  nothing at all like it's better than [TS]

  nothing right and and so with iOS [TS]

  devices backing up to iCloud like you [TS]

  know that's another situation where like [TS]

  it's better than not having even the [TS]

  five gigs they give you is better than [TS]

  nothing [TS]

  it'd be nice to have more by default [TS]

  because it would be nice to have a [TS]

  reasonable amount for all iPhones sold [TS]

  that just came with the price of the [TS]

  iPhone I think that would be a wonderful [TS]

  thing for Apple to do I'm not holding my [TS]

  breath on that but but I wish they would [TS]

  do things like that but because you know [TS]

  having having any backup is better than [TS]

  having no backup and this would be the [TS]

  kind of thing we're like yeah not every [TS]

  Mac owner would or should use an iCloud [TS]

  backup service if it were if it were off [TS]

  on the Mac but it would be a really easy [TS]

  fast way to get lots of Mac users to [TS]

  have a backup who otherwise would have [TS]

  had nothing at all and that's that's [TS]

  good that you want that we were [TS]

  sponsored this week by audible with an [TS]

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  audiobooks are great for flights or long [TS]

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  because you might think you don't have [TS]

  time to read books but you'd be amazed [TS]

  how many books you can listen to as [TS]

  audiobooks each year even if you only go [TS]

  to and from work every day listen and [TS]

  then because the time really adds up and [TS]

  audiobooks really bring books to life [TS]

  many of them are read by the authors [TS]

  themselves which really adds an extra [TS]

  dimension to the text and you can take [TS]

  risks with audible and you can try new [TS]

  authors and genres without regret [TS]

  because audible offers a great listen [TS]

  guarantee if you start an audiobook and [TS]

  you don't like it you can trade it for [TS]

  another one for free see all this and [TS]

  listen for yourself when you begin your [TS]

  free 30-day trial you get your first [TS]

  audio book for free and there's no [TS]

  stress or obligation because you can [TS]

  cancel your membership at any time so [TS]

  with audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

  products you will find what you're [TS]

  looking for get a free 30-day trial by [TS]

  signing up at slash ATP [TS]

  that's slash ATP thanks to [TS]

  audible for sponsoring our show all [TS]

  right so that's the end of the follow up [TS]

  and we should move on to SK TP no no [TS]

  what do you know one more item quickie [TS]

  for you oh no there's nothing else I [TS]

  believe there is so case no it's not I [TS]

  heard that you might have had a keyboard [TS]

  flaw on your new MacBook adorable that [TS]

  has this wonderful keyboard that [TS]

  everyone loves so much that definitely [TS]

  isn't enough constant flaws for almost [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  no no that's fake news oh okay make sure [TS]

  yeah so my beloved MacBook adorable [TS]

  apparently got an infinitesimally small [TS]

  piece of dust under the numeral four key [TS]

  and because of that it was mushy for [TS]

  days until I finally had the time to go [TS]

  to Target and buy myself compressed air [TS]

  which is something I haven't bought in [TS]

  probably five maybe ten years and then [TS]

  take the compressed air to my macbook [TS]

  and blow out the infinitesimally small [TS]

  piece of dust and then subsequent to [TS]

  that it took me a few hours to realize I [TS]

  had not really removed the dust but [TS]

  simply relocated it to under the caps [TS]

  lock secure perhaps lock key which I [TS]

  don't generally use but I happened to [TS]

  use a few hours later and was like oh [TS]

  well that's mushy and gross I guess I [TS]

  know where that dust went and then I had [TS]

  to take the compressed air again to the [TS]

  caps lock key in order to blow it out [TS]

  again and now I think my keyboard is [TS]

  fully functioning once more but yeah [TS]

  very frustrating because the difference [TS]

  between the regularly functioning key [TS]

  keys and a key that has just a iota of [TS]

  dust under it is night and day it is [TS]

  disgusting to use a key that has dust [TS]

  under it because it feels mushy and [TS]

  gross and terrible so I still love my [TS]

  MacBook adorable I still do recommend it [TS]

  especially as like an accessory Mac but [TS]

  the the tolerance for dust and debris on [TS]

  this thing is approaching zero which is [TS]

  really unfortunate it's like the [TS]

  opposite of that panasonic toughbook [TS]

  remember that oh yeah I do [TS]

  the yellow laptop the laptop meant to [TS]

  work in all sorts of environments maybe [TS]

  you should get one of those like glass [TS]

  boxes with the little holes with the [TS]

  gloves and adorable inside the box and [TS]

  when you want to use it just put your [TS]

  hands into those gloves [TS]

  I hear you so yeah so that was sad times [TS]

  I'm about to get one of these at work by [TS]

  the way I'm about to get a 20-17 [TS]

  MacBook Pro at work I'll let you know if [TS]

  and when Mikey I think Mikey bro will be [TS]

  fine because I plan to never touch it I [TS]

  plan to keep the thing closed and use it [TS]

  to hook up to a monitor and just use it [TS]

  as like a three times more powerful [TS]

  version of my Mac Pro that I have at [TS]

  work now hooked up to the very same [TS]

  monitor mouse and keyboard but we'll see [TS]

  you say that but as Marco and I were [TS]

  just recounting an episode or two ago [TS]

  clamshell mode is the word I'll leave it [TS]

  cracks but the point is I'm gonna I'm [TS]

  gonna not use that keyboard if I can [TS]

  help it yeah the thing is like and I I'm [TS]

  obviously always tempted to launch [TS]

  another rant about how this keyboard is [TS]

  awful to be on all the computers but it [TS]

  makes some sense for this awful keyboard [TS]

  to be on that [TS]

  computer but the one you have Casey not [TS]

  the one John's getting and the one that [TS]

  I have but it makes sense [TS]

  the MacBook adorable one 12-inch [TS]

  whatever we're calling it is super super [TS]

  small and thin and all other costs that [TS]

  is what that computer is for so I [TS]

  honestly can't complain that much that [TS]

  they put this incredibly controversial [TS]

  unreliable keyboard in that mom you can [TS]

  complain about the reliability like it's [TS]

  fine to make it super slim and [TS]

  compromise and everything but [TS]

  reliability no matter what you do that [TS]

  should be the one thing at least the job [TS]

  of the keyboard is when you press the [TS]

  key it makes a letter on your screen [TS]

  right so they can't we shouldn't be [TS]

  accepting this big of a downgrade and [TS]

  expected reliability because every [TS]

  keyboard goes bad eventually I've broken [TS]

  a bunch of the the flat aluminum ones [TS]

  but they last for years before something [TS]

  goes wrong and I mean it could be [TS]

  whatever the whatever the thing is not [TS]

  confirmation bias but you know where you [TS]

  where you're hyper aware of people [TS]

  telling you tales of woe about their [TS]

  keyboards foot boy we've heard a lot of [TS]

  them from people who have this keyboard [TS]

  and it just seems like a big change in [TS]

  reliability and keyboard reliability I'm [TS]

  you know all that tough keyboards are [TS]

  gonna you know go crappy eventually [TS]

  probably but within the first several [TS]

  months to have a key stopped working to [TS]

  the point where it affects it sound like [TS]

  oh it feels weird when I type like to [TS]

  the point where it doesn't make the [TS]

  letter on the screen that's just not [TS]

  acceptable even for the slim one that's [TS]

  true yeah because it's like again it's [TS]

  like it's this is a problem that we [TS]

  didn't used to have and and or like you [TS]

  know if you if you had a laptop that had [TS]

  a key break or die on it it was maybe [TS]

  after like five years or after you had [TS]

  abused it or dropped a whole bunch of [TS]

  crap in it and so and so that's one [TS]

  thing that's probably unavoidable but to [TS]

  have laptops where now this keyboard is [TS]

  on the entire line of laptops and that [TS]

  entire line of laptops has significant [TS]

  reliability problems with the primary [TS]

  interface method that is a big problem [TS]

  that is a massive design flaw that [TS]

  shouldn't have shipped the first time [TS]

  let alone the second and in the case of [TS]

  the 12-inch third times so I've really [TS]

  you know we there was remember that read [TS]

  a thread that was a couple months ago [TS]

  that was allegedly from some [TS]

  manufacturing inside that was spilling [TS]

  details about who knows what about Apple [TS]

  one of the things that's said in there [TS]

  was that there's gonna be a new key [TS]

  switch mechanism for the 2018 MacBook [TS]

  Pro revision that allegedly is going to [TS]

  be similar in in thickness and travel [TS]

  but it's gonna it's gonna be like [TS]

  magnetic or something there's gonna be [TS]

  some kind of significant key switch [TS]

  changed I hope that is you know I hope [TS]

  something like that is going to happen I [TS]

  hope Apple sees the way we do that you [TS]

  know we can't convince them to make this [TS]

  keyboard thicker to make it feel better [TS]

  that's never gonna happen [TS]

  so I'll take what we can get let's just [TS]

  make this if we're gonna have this the [TS]

  super thin keyboard the sacrifices the [TS]

  key travel for Johnny is thin world at [TS]

  least make it work reliably like there [TS]

  is no way in 2017 and 2018 we should not [TS]

  have unreliable laptop keyboards on [TS]

  brand-new $2,000 and up laptops that is [TS]

  completely unacceptable and ridiculous [TS]

  in this day and age how to clean the [TS]

  keyboard of your MacBook or MacBook Pro [TS]

  if your MacBook 2015 and later or [TS]

  MacBook Pro 2016 and later has an [TS]

  unresponsive key or a key that feels [TS]

  different than the other keys when you [TS]

  press it follow these steps to clean the [TS]

  keyboard with compressed air number one [TS]

  hold your Mac notebook at a 75 degree [TS]

  angle so it's not quite vertical that's [TS]

  75 kids not 80 we come at this exact 700 [TS]

  on this show you're there preposterous I [TS]

  cannot believe that this is the thing [TS]

  number 2 use compressed air to spray the [TS]

  keyboard or just the affected keys in a [TS]

  left-to-right motion number 3 rotate [TS]

  your Mac notebooks so it's your right [TS]

  side and it's a so it's right side [TS]

  that's that's not even a full sentence [TS]

  rook rotate your Mac keyboard so it's [TS]

  right [TS]

  oh - its right side I can't read my [TS]

  apologies - its right side again from [TS]

  left right number 4 repeat the action [TS]

  this time with your Mac notebook rotated [TS]

  to its left side this is asinine that [TS]

  this is the thing now to be fair my [TS]

  keyboard still worked it just felt like [TS]

  garbage but or one key felt like garbage [TS]

  and by and large I actually do still [TS]

  very much like this keyboard I know [TS]

  Marco you don't and that's fine but in [TS]

  general when it can't when it's working [TS]

  I really like this keyboard similarly [TS]

  when my car's valvetrain hasn't exploded [TS]

  it's a very nice car but it's just [TS]

  frustrating it's very frustrating that [TS]

  that [TS]

  I have I have had this computer for to [TS]

  wouldn't change months and I'm already [TS]

  having to take a restorative action to [TS]

  get the keyboard to work again right [TS]

  it's like and again like I've resigned [TS]

  myself to this new thin thin key switch [TS]

  thing that feels to me is crappy but [TS]

  every time I saw that and like I've been [TS]

  constantly reducing my expectations fine [TS]

  I'll carry a dongle bag fine I'll pay a [TS]

  little bit more fine I'll have this [TS]

  touch bar on the big ones that I really [TS]

  don't like at least make it reliable [TS]

  like just make it work reliably if [TS]

  you're gonna make me swallow all of [TS]

  these other jagged bitter pills at least [TS]

  make something reliable that's all like [TS]

  I'm not asking for much here I've [TS]

  reduced my expectations and given up on [TS]

  every other battle on these laptops just [TS]

  a lot of smaller set of jagged little [TS]

  pill though thank you very much I know [TS]

  I'm just saying like that so that's [TS]

  that's a marcos brain farting out some [TS]

  references without his knowledge no I [TS]

  honestly not only is that a great album [TS]

  but I was I was arguing with TIFF about [TS]

  this a few days ago I would say that is [TS]

  possibly one of the most influential [TS]

  albums of the 90s these kids who cares [TS]

  oh you gotta wait 20 years before you [TS]

  can be nostalgic like we are about the [TS]

  80s you know there are times that's [TS]

  right not 10 more years but actually 20 [TS]

  it's it's not a linear scale so you are [TS]

  what are you like 6 or 7 years older [TS]

  than we are and usually that that feels [TS]

  like 6 or 7 minutes but then there are [TS]

  times that it feels like six or seven [TS]

  decades and this is one of those times [TS]

  it's when you listen to Margo and TIFF [TS]

  talk about I knew it for that matter [TS]

  talk to talk with nostalgia about 90s [TS]

  music and just it's just like what that [TS]

  was it was more than 20 years ago for [TS]

  most of it I know I know it just it just [TS]

  seems weird but I came out in like 95 96 [TS]

  some like that I mean maybe I'm assuming [TS]

  people from the 70s feel the same way [TS]

  were people in this algebra he's music [TS]

  because you know 70 was give me the [TS]

  Canady was all this crap but you know [TS]

  whatever it's what age you are I [TS]

  understand how it works just Alanis [TS]

  Morisette influential album 95 all right [TS]

  geez [TS]

  all right that should be a top four top [TS]

  four albums in the 90s you know I knew [TS]

  her when she was on you can't do that on [TS]

  television you didn't know her then I [TS]

  sure did I love that show [TS]

  that was a great show don't even start [TS]

  with me reruns oh you are such a turd [TS]

  let's just move on all right ask ATP we [TS]

  slime John somehow oh I would love to oh [TS]

  my god we should kick start slimming [TS]

  John and get the money to Houston or [TS]

  something like that my word somebody get [TS]

  on that anyway Joe Lyon writes in to ask [TS]

  ATP this is a little bit long so I don't [TS]

  I remember seeing this but it must be an [TS]

  email or something what is the long game [TS]

  in photo storage not not just which [TS]

  cloud service do I use for the next five [TS]

  years [TS]

  but how will photos be managed stored [TS]

  and handed down between generations we [TS]

  take more pictures than ever but then we [TS]

  lock them all into personal devices and [TS]

  accounts that in print very few of them [TS]

  I think our family histories are [TS]

  actually at more danger than previously [TS]

  ironically hundreds of thousands of [TS]

  pictures from a family can be lost when [TS]

  someone dies and doesn't leave behind a [TS]

  password or a cloud service goes [TS]

  belly-up in local backups weren't made [TS]

  or photos or hard disks crash or data [TS]

  isn't carried to new devices [TS]

  coincidentally I was thinking about this [TS]

  recently because I have I have really [TS]

  been wondering like if I were to [TS]

  suddenly pass away what would happen to [TS]

  the things that I care about like our [TS]

  pictures and because of that that that's [TS]

  yet another reason why why I recommend [TS]

  the 1password family plan because you [TS]

  know Aaron has my my password via one [TS]

  password [TS]

  she has my password for like google [TS]

  photos for example but but you know Joe [TS]

  Lyons point is exactly right like he [TS]

  used to be that you would print all [TS]

  these pictures and create albums and [TS]

  granted there would be far fewer [TS]

  pictures than you would have in this [TS]

  digital age but at least there was [TS]

  something you can physically give to [TS]

  somebody else what is the future bring [TS]

  and and I'll start with the the semi pro [TS]

  photographer Marco what do you think [TS]

  about this I'm barely even that anymore [TS]

  but it's it's a bigger question of you [TS]

  know lots of things regarding your you [TS]

  know your data integrity and everything [TS]

  else you know it's it's it goes way [TS]

  beyond just photos but like lots of your [TS]

  other data as well but I mean largely [TS]

  you know [TS]

  once once I'm gone I won't care I won't [TS]

  be able to care it's largely not my [TS]

  problem with my particulars but no I [TS]

  think it realized the Nile is God - [TS]

  photo backup like you know I think it [TS]

  relies on your family and people who [TS]

  come after you it relies on them caring [TS]

  just like preservation of anything from [TS]

  previous generations like if they care [TS]

  you know it basically you know we as the [TS]

  people who have who have this data now I [TS]

  think we do have some responsibility to [TS]

  have some kind of recovery you know that [TS]

  our heirs have will have access to after [TS]

  we're gone so you know things like [TS]

  making sure like are that their family [TS]

  has access to passwords and data and [TS]

  stuff like that but beyond that like [TS]

  it's up to the next generations to care [TS]

  and it always has been like every family [TS]

  you know like we you know you only know [TS]

  what your relatives have been able to [TS]

  pass on to you you only have what they [TS]

  have carried with them and what they [TS]

  still have in their possessions from [TS]

  previous generations and the same thing [TS]

  is going to apply to this like in some [TS]

  ways it is easier than ever to keep this [TS]

  stuff and especially as time goes on [TS]

  like my entire photo collection from the [TS]

  first year I was taking photos with the [TS]

  digital camera which is like 2004 I [TS]

  think you know mm really but my entire [TS]

  photo collection from that year is like [TS]

  a few hundred Meg's like it's at most [TS]

  like it's nothing compared to it like [TS]

  and and as time goes on every year that [TS]

  goes by hard drives get bigger and [TS]

  cameras get better and photos get bigger [TS]

  and so it seems like everything's always [TS]

  really big buddy like what was taken in [TS]

  the past with low resolution cameras [TS]

  lower resolution sensors like less data [TS]

  being captured with less video more [TS]

  stills like I don't know I feel like [TS]

  it's not that hard if you care and if [TS]

  your heirs and relatives care it isn't [TS]

  that hard to keep stuff and to pass it [TS]

  down it's just an issue of will will the [TS]

  people who inherit your things actually [TS]

  care to keep them and that's always my [TS]

  problem and photos don't get bigger all [TS]

  the time like you said that photos get [TS]

  bigger every year in cameras get better [TS]

  but they we are probably [TS]

  already very close to limits of human [TS]

  visual acuity on the highest-end cameras [TS]

  and we're just waiting for it to trickle [TS]

  down once your phone is taking 42 [TS]

  megapixel images do you think in 10 [TS]

  years they're gonna be taking 84 [TS]

  megapixel images they will not like [TS]

  there what are we gonna do blow it up to [TS]

  a post to the size of a football stadium [TS]

  like there we are close to the limits [TS]

  and if storage continues to increase at [TS]

  any rate while the size of photos stays [TS]

  more or less the same maybe even get [TS]

  smaller if we have better compression [TS]

  tech this is the storage of photos is a [TS]

  problem that will solve itself [TS]

  essentially as storage size increases so [TS]

  just in the same way that's easy for [TS]

  marker to take his hundred Meg's of [TS]

  photos from 2000 in 50 years it will be [TS]

  much easier to take our quote-unquote [TS]

  massive photo libraries and put them in [TS]

  in the storage of the day and 50 years [TS]

  they will not be taking 10,000 megapixel [TS]

  photos there probably be like 50 to 100 [TS]

  megapixel photos if even that probably [TS]

  not even that it's not it's gonna stop [TS]

  because you can't there's there's no [TS]

  point in more pixels like again you're [TS]

  not blowing it up to a poster that [TS]

  covers your entire house so that little [TS]

  that part of the problem will take care [TS]

  of itself I have some faith in that kind [TS]

  of like music did like the music files [TS]

  like you know even if they go to flak [TS]

  that's it like limits of human acuity [TS]

  bit depth bitrate all things we talk [TS]

  about take the biggest audio file you [TS]

  could have is there a benefit to making [TS]

  something a hundred times bigger no [TS]

  there isn't because we can't hear [TS]

  anything better than that that's it [TS]

  the audio will never get bigger than [TS]

  than that you know and multi-channel and [TS]

  so and so forth so I'm optimistic about [TS]

  that and it's the thing to remember [TS]

  about trends like this where it's like [TS]

  oh oh or just it's never you know it's [TS]

  gonna continue on and on some of the [TS]

  lines on the graph level off and that is [TS]

  a saving grace yeah the thing I would [TS]

  add though this this is just a backup [TS]

  problem like anything aside from the [TS]

  social things like I'll pass it on and [TS]

  having you know sharing your passwords [TS]

  that you should definitely do that but [TS]

  like any other backup problem it's all [TS]

  about diversity right so print some [TS]

  pictures first of all because that is a [TS]

  diversified backup strategy physical [TS]

  things versus digital things the [TS]

  physical things are worse they [TS]

  deteriorate that you can lose them that [TS]

  you know they take up space so on and so [TS]

  forth but it's a it's an [TS]

  important diversification you reach out [TS]

  you print some books from from Apple's [TS]

  Photos app go to Shutterfly or whatever [TS]

  print some pictures from one of our [TS]

  sponsors of this episode right that is a [TS]

  diversification that's also as marker [TS]

  will surely say I may add read not just [TS]

  diversification of backup but it'll let [TS]

  you look at your pictures like you know [TS]

  we all have so many pictures but if [TS]

  they're in a digital thing like how [TS]

  often do you even look at them I I think [TS]

  I spent more time looking at the [TS]

  pictures on my phone in the new [TS]

  Uncharted game than I do looking at the [TS]

  pictures on my actual phone on your wall [TS]

  lets you enjoy them for the time you're [TS]

  alive before you don't care like [TS]

  Margaret when he's dead and [TS]

  diversification of backup means also [TS]

  perhaps winnowing your collection down [TS]

  to some really good pictures and sharing [TS]

  them with the relative this is the case [TS]

  where you're not doing it for a backup [TS]

  but you just want to give other people [TS]

  your photos and I think we're in a much [TS]

  better situation than we were in the [TS]

  past because it's harder I think for the [TS]

  shoebox full of photos or photo albums [TS]

  to transfer from the the elderly [TS]

  relative who's died to the rest of the [TS]

  family because people don't want here's [TS]

  like 50 pounds of photo albums or even [TS]

  just a shoebox like people don't want [TS]

  that junk like especially when you're [TS]

  trying to clear out all the belongings [TS]

  and everything like that you're trying [TS]

  to save the few precious things like one [TS]

  or two wedding photos then being digital [TS]

  and that's having a fighting chance at [TS]

  least of losslessly carrying them across [TS]

  generations is merely a matter of making [TS]

  that process easy enough to do and I [TS]

  think as we all die and the people who [TS]

  grew up in the sort of the cusp of the [TS]

  digital age died off the process of [TS]

  figuring out how to get our crap to [TS]

  continue on will be worked out in a [TS]

  generation or two and so I have a lot of [TS]

  confidence that it's sort of permanent [TS]

  growing archive of things associated [TS]

  with the family will be passed on from [TS]

  generation to generation again because [TS]

  storage sizes will keep going up not [TS]

  forever but they'll keep going up well [TS]

  long after the the size of the things [TS]

  we're doing go up and I by the way I [TS]

  also think there's a limit on number of [TS]

  photos we'll take to it because I'm I [TS]

  guess you just wish to to constantly [TS]

  recorded video but there's some social [TS]

  parts that that I think might won't make [TS]

  it happen but we take so many more [TS]

  pictures now than we used to especially [TS]

  we have kids but in 300 years we're not [TS]

  gonna be taking a thousand times more [TS]

  photos like you just can't do that where [TS]

  we're taking a photo where we have a [TS]

  second for our entire lives 24 hours day [TS]

  that's just video and I don't think we [TS]

  on record every second so I am much more [TS]

  optimistic than Joe lying about this but [TS]

  I would recommend people think about the [TS]

  password share anything like Casey said [TS]

  diversify [TS]

  diversify [TS]

  I your photo backups and maybe get a [TS]

  couple of them and print them and [TS]

  hanging on your wall so you can look at [TS]

  them all you're still alive [TS]

  Brad Ringel asks it's been discussed a [TS]

  bit but can you give a brief rundown of [TS]

  how you decided on a camera to buy in [TS]

  suggestions for a beginner I will start [TS]

  and say that what I had done was look [TS]

  around at my friends and try to figure [TS]

  out what was something that felt at kind [TS]

  of entry-level and approachable with and [TS]

  also was was reasonably easy to carry [TS]

  physically because it wasn't you know [TS]

  the size of a DSLR and so I have an [TS]

  Olympus om-d e-m1 [TS]

  in the show notes to a couple actually [TS]

  two or three year old review now of of [TS]

  that camera it's the one I still use [TS]

  this is a micro 4/3 camera and it has [TS]

  interchangeable lenses and so I spent a [TS]

  fair bit of money on well what I thought [TS]

  was a fair bit of money on both the body [TS]

  and one really nice prime lens that [TS]

  prime lens lasted me for the first [TS]

  couple of years I had the camera and [TS]

  then about a year ago I added a zoom [TS]

  lens I chose this because Sean Blanc [TS]

  Blanc Blanc I forget how you pronounce [TS]

  this longer name Thank You Sean Blanc [TS]

  head recommended it very very strongly [TS]

  and I love this camera by no means is it [TS]

  the best camera in the entire world [TS]

  but I love it and and it is done right [TS]

  by me and helped me get better as a [TS]

  photographer because it allow and not to [TS]

  say that's unique to this camera by any [TS]

  stretch but but this one is very good [TS]

  because it allows interchangeable lenses [TS]

  and it allows me to do things like shoot [TS]

  an aperture priority which is to say I [TS]

  can concentrate on getting one thing [TS]

  right and the rest of it will just [TS]

  automatically happen again I'm not [TS]

  saying that's unique to this camera but [TS]

  that's kind of how I got started and [TS]

  that's generally speaking how I still [TS]

  shoot today and suggestions for a [TS]

  beginner you know everyone says this not [TS]

  remember Marco you and you and me and [TS]

  Aaron and TIFF were sitting in some [TS]

  restaurant in New York forever ago and [TS]

  we were talking about cameras and I [TS]

  remember you and TIFF saying to me there [TS]

  are two rules to being a good [TS]

  photographer number one never use the [TS]

  flash and number two take a bazillion [TS]

  pictures because if you take a bazillion [TS]

  pictures at least one of them will be [TS]

  okay and I really [TS]

  think as as cliche and is silly and as [TS]

  frustrating as that may sound to a [TS]

  beginner that really really is the case [TS]

  like I would recommend getting enough of [TS]

  a camera that that you feel like you've [TS]

  got something interesting and special [TS]

  and that doesn't have to be very [TS]

  expensive by any means but enough that [TS]

  maybe you can get a little bokeh bouquet [TS]

  however you pronounce it but but other [TS]

  than that just try to avoid the flash it [TS]

  takes a lot of pictures and I think [TS]

  that's sufficient so John let's go to [TS]

  you next what do you recommend I [TS]

  basically bought the camera marker told [TS]

  me too many things in life but I the [TS]

  caveat though I did he also told me [TS]

  about lens rentals and so before before [TS]

  I bought it I'm pretty sure you guys may [TS]

  remember that dude didn't I didn't I [TS]

  rent the back camera first before I [TS]

  decided to plunk down the money for it I [TS]

  believe you did it was either that one [TS]

  or its predecessor and I did the same by [TS]

  the way yeah no it was it was a 63 and I [TS]

  remember when Marko recommended it I [TS]

  wasn't I wasn't that keen on it because [TS]

  I wanted like I basically wanted a fancy [TS]

  camera but then I used Marcos a7 r2 or [TS]

  whatever used to have and it just seemed [TS]

  too big and so then I'm like are maybe [TS]

  he was right this moment so I rented it [TS]

  and liked it and bought it and I didn't [TS]

  honestly I didn't shop around that too [TS]

  much because that's that's a service [TS]

  both wirecutter and Marco provide if you [TS]

  don't want to spend a year researching [TS]

  stuff I did actually spend a very long [TS]

  time researching super zooms because I [TS]

  had experience with a couple of them and [TS]

  I'm like let me just find a successor to [TS]

  my family camera and I get my super zoom [TS]

  and I could never find one that would [TS]

  seem like it was a win over what I was [TS]

  doing so yeah so ask friends who know [TS]

  stuff about cameras and before you plunk [TS]

  down a large amount of money it seems [TS]

  large to someone who doesn't buy fancy [TS]

  cameras consider something like lens [TS]

  Rendell's where it seems like oh my gosh [TS]

  am i paying to rent this but it's [TS]

  cheaper than buying the camera and [TS]

  realizing you don't want it and having [TS]

  to you know find a way to sell it at a [TS]

  loss and everything so that that I think [TS]

  that works me honestly the aging [TS]

  internet you know if you don't know [TS]

  Marco personally there is the the wire [TS]

  cutter there is DP review you can find [TS]

  the information out there and then just [TS]

  come up with a couple candidates borrow [TS]

  or rent them to see which one you like [TS]

  and then go for it I agree with Casey go [TS]

  I kind of like it Mac storage go a [TS]

  little bit more than you [TS]

  like save money for an extra six months [TS]

  if you have to because you will never [TS]

  regret getting a slightly nicer camera [TS]

  you may regret getting a slightly bigger [TS]

  camera so that's why I say use it and [TS]

  see if you feel like does this camera [TS]

  fit into my life but make it make it [TS]

  something special especially in the age [TS]

  of our phone cameras are also good if [TS]

  you're gonna buy a camera camera that [TS]

  all does is camera stuff make it better [TS]

  enough than your phone camera that it's [TS]

  not close and that will make you excited [TS]

  to use your quote-unquote good camera [TS]

  like I do take a lot of pictures with my [TS]

  phone and take video with my phone but I [TS]

  really like my fancy and not that fancy [TS]

  but my my quote-unquote real camera I [TS]

  really like that I use it a lot you know [TS]

  not all the time not every day but I [TS]

  like knowing that it's there I'm gonna [TS]

  do use it you know like I said 2,000 [TS]

  pictures coming home from the ocean from [TS]

  one day that's a good time for me yeah [TS]

  and I would just like to quickly double [TS]

  down on what you said about lens rentals [TS]

  I view sled in rentals comm they've [TS]

  never sponsored I rented the camera that [TS]

  I now have before we bought one and got [TS]

  a chance to play with it for a few days [TS]

  and in fact I rented it to take well I [TS]

  had my dad do it but to take maternity [TS]

  shots for Aaron before before Declan was [TS]

  born and I got to spend some time with [TS]

  it you know dad took these really [TS]

  beautiful pictures with it and he's not [TS]

  a photographer you know he just was able [TS]

  to take really good shots with with a [TS]

  combination of this body in this lens [TS]

  and so I completely agree with John and [TS]

  I think Marko was the one who originally [TS]

  recommended it to me as well you know [TS]

  just take a spin with whatever camera [TS]

  you're looking at and it cost me like [TS]

  150 bucks or something like that to get [TS]

  the camera for a few days than the lens [TS]

  I wanted for a few days but it was worth [TS]

  its price and gold because it made me [TS]

  know that this like 1,500 or 2,000 [TS]

  dollar expenditure I ended up spending [TS]

  was worth it [TS]

  so Marco what would you say about this [TS]

  you know what's what's a good set of [TS]

  tips for a beginner you guys have [TS]

  actually covered it really well I don't [TS]

  have that much more to add to cue me [TS]

  talk for 20 minutes now you know I know [TS]

  myself pretty well so yeah I mean [TS]

  definitely you know renting before you [TS]

  buy is very valuable because you know [TS]

  you spent that you know hundred fifty [TS]

  bucks and you know it you know good ol [TS]

  entrances comet I think there are other [TS]

  sites [TS]

  I've always used lens rentals and I've [TS]

  had excellent experiences with them over [TS]

  the years over a pretty long time over [TS]

  lots of different rentals of lots of [TS]

  different things a few times I needed [TS]

  the customer service it was excellent [TS]

  every time and they're a pretty big [TS]

  operation and pretty reputable so highly [TS]

  recommend lens rentals you're right they [TS]

  have never sponsored us I don't think [TS]

  they ever would sponsor us but now they [TS]

  don't need to because we're giving so [TS]

  you know because you know not only did [TS]

  you learn you know what that you [TS]

  basically got confirmation that what you [TS]

  wanted to buy was probably a good idea [TS]

  but you know in some cases it can teach [TS]

  you that you don't want to buy something [TS]

  like if you rent it and you learn you [TS]

  know actually this is too big or the [TS]

  handling doesn't work out for me or [TS]

  whatever like it's useful for that it's [TS]

  also useful for like if there's some [TS]

  really expensive piece of gear whether [TS]

  it's a camera or a lens usually more [TS]

  often hence the name something that you [TS]

  don't need very often like there was a [TS]

  like I was shooting the talk show live [TS]

  at everybody see two years ago and I [TS]

  shot it with a rented lens because like [TS]

  I knew I would need a certain type of [TS]

  zoom lens to do it to do a really good [TS]

  job with it but it's a lens that I [TS]

  hardly ever need in my daily life and it [TS]

  was very expensive to buy so I just [TS]

  rented it for the week and it was way [TS]

  less money and I learned as I was [TS]

  running it like wow I'm so glad I don't [TS]

  own this lens because giant and heavy [TS]

  and I really don't want to have this you [TS]

  know most of the time I only very rarely [TS]

  need it [TS]

  so it's it's nice to actually consider [TS]

  the possibility of renting things just [TS]

  as part of the way you operate in the in [TS]

  the camera road because there is so much [TS]

  like incredibly specialized gear that [TS]

  you might need twice or once and then [TS]

  it's it's probably not worth buying it [TS]

  for that but for those one or two times [TS]

  it's really really nice [TS]

  yeah and that actually is a really great [TS]

  point as well because after I had had my [TS]

  camera for a couple of years I had my [TS]

  eye on a zoom lens and I forget the [TS]

  specifics but I want to say it was like [TS]

  a 100 to 300 millimeter zoom which is [TS]

  something like double that in a DSLR [TS]

  maybe half that I forget how it all [TS]

  works out but it was a what it ended up [TS]

  that it was like a really really really [TS]

  strong zoom and so you [TS]

  had to be like you know 20 30 40 feet [TS]

  away from your subject before it was [TS]

  even useful and then and then that's [TS]

  when it started to be useful and again [TS]

  I'm making up the details here but it [TS]

  was something along those lines and so I [TS]

  rented it for a week and I actually [TS]

  strictly being Aaron rented it for me [TS]

  for like a birthday present or something [TS]

  because she knew I was looking at it and [TS]

  it turns out it was a terrible lens and [TS]

  I was so thankful that Aaron had spent [TS]

  the money to rent it for me because I [TS]

  then knew that it wasn't worth the like [TS]

  eight hundred dollars or whatever it [TS]

  cost to get that lens and and the zoom [TS]

  lens I ended up with was quite a bit [TS]

  different and I knew that because I then [TS]

  rented that lens and in spent some time [TS]

  with it and knew that it was worth the [TS]

  money so yeah I completely completely [TS]

  double down triple down even on the lens [TS]

  rentals idea I couldn't recommend it [TS]

  enough yeah and to expand a little bit [TS]

  on what John said about like you know [TS]

  renting it and and or you know getting [TS]

  it getting a handle on like how it feels [TS]

  and you know possibly regretting things [TS]

  like size and and weight you know blade [TS]

  down the road or a battery life yes life [TS]

  I would say one of the best things you [TS]

  can do if you're in the market for a [TS]

  camera is to go to a store that has them [TS]

  in person and to actually be able to [TS]

  look at them in person next to each [TS]

  other and you know like you know do some [TS]

  basic research before you get to the [TS]

  store just you know like roughly what [TS]

  models offer the kinds of things that [TS]

  you're looking for but actually pick [TS]

  them up and see them in person and see [TS]

  them next to each other try to handle [TS]

  them see like certain ones like you know [TS]

  cameras these days have so many [TS]

  capabilities but they're also oftentimes [TS]

  very small and so ergo nom --ax we can [TS]

  become a pretty big challenge in a lot [TS]

  of them usability of the various menus [TS]

  and controls and dials and everything [TS]

  these are all pretty major factors that [TS]

  differ significantly between different [TS]

  models and so anything you can do to get [TS]

  your hands on you know that's it's the [TS]

  precursor to renting with basically [TS]

  anything you can do to get your hands on [TS]

  them and see them in person before you [TS]

  decide because you can you can read a [TS]

  review or you can hear me say something [TS]

  about a certain model or you can go to [TS]

  the wire cutter and you can go to DP [TS]

  review and you can spend hours and hours [TS]

  and hours I have on these sites like [TS]

  when you're trying to make a decision on [TS]

  what camera to buy for you or what's [TS]

  right for you and [TS]

  no that's good you should do some of [TS]

  that but like the the model of like [TS]

  trying to figure out like what is the [TS]

  one camera you should buy in this price [TS]

  range you know that that's that really [TS]

  does is not a great model for this [TS]

  because different cameras will work for [TS]

  different people and there there really [TS]

  isn't like one great model that everyone [TS]

  should buy any in each price range or in [TS]

  each size category like I was able to [TS]

  give John a decent recommendation for [TS]

  him because I had more information about [TS]

  what he wanted and he and he had used my [TS]

  medium sized one and so like it's like [TS]

  there was there was more to go on but if [TS]

  you just go to some site that tries to [TS]

  pick like here's the one camera you [TS]

  should get in this category that might [TS]

  not be right for you so anything you can [TS]

  do to see them in person to use them [TS]

  whether it's going to a store or renting [TS]

  one that you think you might want to buy [TS]

  or both you know ideally like you kind [TS]

  of narrow down as you go it's invaluable [TS]

  because really the the camera the [TS]

  cameras that are out there chant like [TS]

  they are so different in how they handle [TS]

  and a lot of times a camera that might [TS]

  not have like the best sensor or like [TS]

  the best technical specs in certain [TS]

  areas a lot of times like if it just [TS]

  handles better you will you will end up [TS]

  using it more or you will enjoy using it [TS]

  more because of you know just the the [TS]

  physical differences or the other [TS]

  differences that aren't just like the [TS]

  sensor quality and this is a lesson I've [TS]

  often not learned fully when I've made [TS]

  certain decisions but like you know I I [TS]

  try to recover from that try to you know [TS]

  get better over time because it just it [TS]

  matters so so much like just how it [TS]

  handles how it behaves how it performs [TS]

  in your hand in like the mechanics of [TS]

  using it like one of the ones that I [TS]

  that I have heard great things about and [TS]

  I have very little experience with them [TS]

  is the Fuji X line people love these [TS]

  things like there is the xt-1 the XT to [TS]

  the X 100 I haven't followed them too [TS]

  closely but these are cameras that like [TS]

  the they often don't perform top-notch [TS]

  in certain spec comparisons but people [TS]

  just love them because of their [TS]

  ergonomic and their mechanics and things [TS]

  like that that's the kind of thing you [TS]

  want to look for similarly like you know [TS]

  it's hard to understand the appeal of [TS]

  light [TS]

  cameras because Leica's are very very [TS]

  expensive like eye watering Li expensive [TS]

  and you think why would anybody buy that [TS]

  when you know like the sensor doesn't [TS]

  perform any better than like a so many [TS]

  sensors only that and and a couple of [TS]

  times I've had a chance to actually [TS]

  handle a like a camera and they like [TS]

  there is a certain degree of like wow [TS]

  this is just really nicely handling it's [TS]

  nice its responsive it feels good it [TS]

  like I feel good using it like there's [TS]

  there is some degree of that and it's [TS]

  like there are these other factors when [TS]

  you're when you're looking at the and by [TS]

  the way this this does not apply just to [TS]

  cameras there are these other factors [TS]

  when you look at a binding station like [TS]

  this where you can do as many spec [TS]

  comparisons as you want on paper and on [TS]

  websites and everything but it's really [TS]

  hard to do a really it's really hard to [TS]

  know how much you're gonna actually love [TS]

  using it until you actually get a chance [TS]

  to try it and that's that's again that's [TS]

  why we say go see these things in the [TS]

  store if you can rent one like those are [TS]

  great options and and for something like [TS]

  this that's that's so personal and and [TS]

  we're not everyone has the same [TS]

  requirements that's pretty good and then [TS]

  finally to definitely definitely echo [TS]

  what John said you you want a camera [TS]

  that is going to be a lot better than [TS]

  your phone if it isn't a lot better than [TS]

  your phone you should not buy it there [TS]

  is no reason for you to buy a camera [TS]

  that's only a little better than your [TS]

  phone and phone cameras are really good [TS]

  and they keep getting better at a at an [TS]

  alarming pace they keep remarkably [TS]

  better and so I would say it is you know [TS]

  generally speaking I mean there are [TS]

  exceptions it's hard to give like a firm [TS]

  but like a price floor here that's [TS]

  that's meaningful but I would say if [TS]

  you're spending less than probably a [TS]

  thousand dollars you're probably not [TS]

  getting a quality jump that that makes [TS]

  sense in the role of today's smartphones [TS]

  especially if you are listening to the [TS]

  show you're probably an iPhone user [TS]

  you're probably a user of fairly recent [TS]

  iPhone and that's yeah that's gonna be [TS]

  hard to beat with anything below a [TS]

  thousand dollars in in in a lot of [TS]

  situations most of the recommendations [TS]

  that I give are in the one to three [TS]

  thousand dollar range and that's a lot [TS]

  of money and you have to you have to ask [TS]

  yourself like is that really worth it [TS]

  if for a lot of people it isn't or like [TS]

  you know you might go through all this [TS]

  and realize you know actually I still [TS]

  take most my pictures on my phone [TS]

  because my phone's always with me and [TS]

  the cameras keep getting better and they [TS]

  offer you know more interesting features [TS]

  in a lot of cases like like live photos [TS]

  and you know automatic HDR and stuff [TS]

  that like other cameras can do sometimes [TS]

  or it can do some of these things but [TS]

  they're clunky or don't work as well or [TS]

  harder to use or you know so it's like a [TS]

  camera a standalone camera these days [TS]

  has to be way better than your phone to [TS]

  make it worth buying and to make sure [TS]

  you'll actually use it on a regular [TS]

  basis so if you're not willing or able [TS]

  to spend over a thousand dollars I would [TS]

  say easily on some on a camera and a [TS]

  couple of lenses for it I would say it's [TS]

  probably not worth it you should [TS]

  probably just get the best phone you can [TS]

  and use its camera that oh please rights [TS]

  have any of you used or played the [TS]

  notoriety card in your day-to-day life [TS]

  to get something you wanted and I will [TS]

  start with John I put this question in [TS]

  here because I want to re-emphasize to [TS]

  people exactly how little notoriety [TS]

  seems like like there is no car to play [TS]

  even at WWC where we are that is the the [TS]

  maximum of our fame and notoriety is [TS]

  like we're there with the highest [TS]

  percentage chance that people know who [TS]

  we are as like at WWDC even there I have [TS]

  never had a way to parlay my notoriety [TS]

  into pretty much anything except for [TS]

  perhaps giving me the confidence to go [TS]

  up and talk to somebody who I might not [TS]

  otherwise even though I don't have an [TS]

  expectation they're gonna know who I am [TS]

  I [TS]

  that's the I guess as my answer it's [TS]

  like I have never played the notoriety [TS]

  card because there's no card to be [TS]

  played but my impression of my own [TS]

  notoriety in very specific circumstances [TS]

  were a specific kind of nerd gathers for [TS]

  a week it has given me the confidence to [TS]

  overcome what would normally be my [TS]

  equation I'd never talked into the human [TS]

  being to go talk to somebody and [TS]

  introduce myself most people you know if [TS]

  you don't have my personnel you don't [TS]

  need that [TS]

  with confidence but but I really really [TS]

  want to emphasize listeners we have no [TS]

  no no right no one knows who we are no [TS]

  one knows what a podcast is well maybe [TS]

  now it's zero they do podcast what's [TS]

  that you know serial I think I've heard [TS]

  of that anyway that's that's my answer [TS]

  mark oh I don't think I have used it in [TS]

  a useful way because of you know what [TS]

  John said it's like you know if you [TS]

  actually would take that risk and say [TS]

  hey do you know who I am like chances [TS]

  are the answer you're gonna get back is [TS]

  nope that's not a good risk take it you [TS]

  know even if you can get over the fact [TS]

  that the best-case scenario they do know [TS]

  who you are and you've just been a huge [TS]

  jerk that's that is yeah that that's not [TS]

  my style that's not how I interact with [TS]

  the world even if I knew I could get [TS]

  away with it I would still not try to do [TS]

  it because that's just I don't want to [TS]

  do that but John is correct in reality [TS]

  there is almost nowhere where we could [TS]

  be where we can pull a card like that [TS]

  and have it actually work like maybe [TS]

  maybe at our own live show like like in [TS]

  the room seconds after we've walked [TS]

  offstage [TS]

  maybe but anywhere else that would not [TS]

  work at all and yeah that's that's not [TS]

  we don't have any degree of actual fame [TS]

  in any context where this would even be [TS]

  a possibility let alone the fact that I [TS]

  think none of the three of us have the [TS]

  personality type to actually try to pull [TS]

  a car like that well there was there was [TS]

  that one time where I wished that it [TS]

  worked where I forgot my wallet and I [TS]

  couldn't pick up my hardware and I had [TS]

  to drive all the way back home and it's [TS]

  not any special treatments because I [TS]

  didn't want to drive all the way back [TS]

  home because I I felt dumb for leaving [TS]

  my wallet you know at home I got I [TS]

  couldn't pick up my thing at the Apple [TS]

  store I didn't actually do it I did [TS]

  jokingly offer well just google my name [TS]

  and my picture will come up and it was [TS]

  half joking but I was kind of it's kind [TS]

  of half serious like you need to know I [TS]

  am Who I am [TS]

  type my name into a Google search box [TS]

  but just I had to drive all the way back [TS]

  home and that's again not that's just me [TS]

  trying to save myself commuting time so [TS]

  I don't feel quite as dumb for leaving [TS]

  home without my wife but that is does [TS]

  the one time and and notes like it [TS]

  wasn't I didn't say why they should go [TS]

  go my name and [TS]

  I might come up of course that would [TS]

  never do that and they didn't know and [TS]

  didn't care and I had to get my friggin [TS]

  wallet I think it is really really gross [TS]

  to try to be like oh don't you know who [TS]

  I am so let me tell you about the three [TS]

  times that I did it the first time I was [TS]

  the first boys I forget I guess was I [TS]

  don't remember what year it was but [TS]

  maybe was 2016 I guess that I tried [TS]

  emailing a few people at Apple and being [TS]

  like hey I don't have a WWDC ticket huh [TS]

  maybe I could do something about that [TS]

  didn't work the second time was when I [TS]

  was trying to get my current job and I [TS]

  don't know if it's really being like Do [TS]

  You Know Who I am but I definitely [TS]

  mentioned that I had a popular Apple [TS]

  podcast on my resume and the reason I [TS]

  did that was because I was trying to [TS]

  switch careers from being a Microsoft [TS]

  developer to being an apple developer [TS]

  and I was trying to figure out any [TS]

  justifiable reason to hear me at that [TS]

  point and to and to take a risk on me [TS]

  the final time is one that you two did [TS]

  not know about and I wasn't planning on [TS]

  telling you about and I'm only going to [TS]

  talk about it very very lightly because [TS]

  I'm trying to think of how to describe [TS]

  this without giving it away it it was [TS]

  offered to me because of this show so it [TS]

  was not really I do you know who I am [TS]

  but it was offered to me because of the [TS]

  show and because of a friend that [TS]

  listens to the show would you like to [TS]

  get access to a to a car from the press [TS]

  fleet from a manufacturer that that none [TS]

  of us would normally have access to to [TS]

  which I said yes absolutely that car was [TS]

  supposed to arrive the week after WWDC [TS]

  and by happenstance something happened [TS]

  and it didn't work out then that car was [TS]

  supposed to arrive a few weeks later and [TS]

  when it was traveling from the press [TS]

  pool in DC down to me it caught a chip [TS]

  in the windshield and they had to turn [TS]

  around I haven't heard much since then [TS]

  and it's been a month or two so I'm [TS]

  guessing that this didn't work out [TS]

  in a few months like it by the end of [TS]

  the year if I haven't had access to this [TS]

  press car I will I will concede may be [TS]

  privately may be publicly what it was [TS]

  but on the slim chance that I actually [TS]

  do get a week with this particular car [TS]

  which is a car that I would never [TS]

  generally have access to I don't want to [TS]

  spoil the surprise but that is somewhat [TS]

  sort of kind of me leveraging my do you [TS]

  know who I am even though it was offered [TS]

  to me I did not request it and that is [TS]

  all I'm going to say is it some garbage [TS]

  car that we're gonna laugh at like the [TS]

  stupid green Jeep Cherokee with like a [TS]

  big engine or some crap and first of all [TS]

  the Cherokee srt8 is not stupid you big [TS]

  just stupid and gross and we know you're [TS]

  excited about it is the type of car that [TS]

  we're gonna be excited about it car [TS]

  would be like a Casey car like numero [TS]

  zl1 so monk to me John I would not be [TS]

  excited about a Veyron I just want to [TS]

  put that out there because I think the [TS]

  Veyron is also stupid and gross so I [TS]

  only have one question about the car and [TS]

  you know what it is it is not it is not [TS]

  a Tesla that was a question [TS]

  okay what color is it I don't know but I [TS]

  I would guess I would guess that it is [TS]

  red and that is all I will say [TS]

  interesting I'm interested in Ferraris [TS]

  it is not a Ferrari less is the [TS]

  California I don't like that one and the [TS]

  California they're replacing for the [TS]

  Californians also gross what the hell is [TS]

  the California replacement chat room I [TS]

  love that you'd even be picky about like [TS]

  which Ferrari you got to borrow like [TS]

  wouldn't you be excited by it I'd be [TS]

  like no not that one Shawn you are the [TS]

  worst I don't like that one similarly [TS]

  come on chat room what's the replacement [TS]

  for the California Portofino there we go [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  better name and it does look nicer than [TS]

  the California but it still it's like [TS]

  the Ferrari that I don't want I'd rather [TS]

  have that weird four-wheel-drive FF [TS]

  thing and it well the replacement they [TS]

  decided the GT for Lou so and the pre [TS]

  pre show that won't be there [TS]

  I'd rather have that than the Portofino [TS]

  or California [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

  go to fracture [TS]

  slash podcast to learn more and get 10% [TS]

  off your first order fracture prints [TS]

  your photos in vivid color directly onto [TS]

  glass they are a photo decor company out [TS]

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  digital ether they print your photos on [TS]

  beautiful pieces of glass and they had a [TS]

  laser-cut rigid backing so they're ready [TS]

  to display or hang up right out of the [TS]

  box they even include the wall anchor if [TS]

  you want to put it in the wall just [TS]

  upload your digital photo and pick the [TS]

  size you want it is that simple the [TS]

  fracture printing process makes the [TS]

  color and contrast of your photos really [TS]

  pop and the sleek frameless design lets [TS]

  your photos stand out while matching any [TS]

  decorating style we have fractures all [TS]

  over our house and we get compliments on [TS]

  them all the time we were actually just [TS]

  talking 10 minutes ago that we're gonna [TS]

  order another one because they just make [TS]

  wonderful prints for your home they fit [TS]

  in they look great they look modern they [TS]

  also make wonderful gifts if you have [TS]

  pictures of your friends or your [TS]

  children or your pets and you want to [TS]

  send them to other people or other [TS]

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  memories to life with fracture prints or [TS]

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  which podcast you came from make sure to [TS]

  tell them you came from a teepee [TS]

  that'll help support the show and tell [TS]

  them where their ads are working best so [TS]

  go to fracture slash podcast to [TS]

  get more information and 10% off your [TS]

  first order thank you very much to [TS]

  fracture for sponsoring our show all [TS]

  right so 90 minutes in you want to start [TS]

  the show yes I think it's time all of [TS]

  our topics are short today so it oh [TS]

  really [TS]

  okay listeners buckle up let's talk [TS]

  about AP FS we're really short topics [TS]

  here in the TV seriously ok so let's [TS]

  talk about this short topic John the [TS]

  clock is ticking [TS]

  tell me about AP FS conversion [TS]

  in high sierra this is a bit of news [TS]

  that was officially published by Apple [TS]

  this week or very recently anyway [TS]

  between the show and last show they have [TS]

  an article will link in the show notes [TS]

  official Apple documentation not about [TS]

  like betas or whatever but like hey when [TS]

  you upgrade to Mac OS High Sierra [TS]

  systems with all flash storage will be [TS]

  converted automatically to a PFS so if [TS]

  you have a Mac and it has flash storage [TS]

  and you upgrade to the Mac OS High [TS]

  Sierra you are getting converted a PFS [TS]

  you cannot opt out of the transition to [TS]

  a PFS this is right from their [TS]

  documentation so it's not like as in the [TS]

  beta is like oh you can convert or not [TS]

  convert and decide later or whatever if [TS]

  you upgrade the High Sierra and you got [TS]

  flash you're getting it even if you have [TS]

  a third-party flash drive we have one [TS]

  listen to write in to say I have a Mac [TS]

  bit ship with a spinning disk but I [TS]

  replaced it with SSD [TS]

  upgrade to High Sierra automatic upgrade [TS]

  to a PFS a lot of people installed one [TS]

  of the later High Sierra betas and [TS]

  didn't even realize they had been [TS]

  converted to a PFS because like how [TS]

  would you even tell because it doesn't [TS]

  ask you anything about it it just does [TS]

  it right if you have a hard disk or a [TS]

  fusion drive you won't be converted I [TS]

  don't know if that means you can't be I [TS]

  think you still go to Disk Utility and [TS]

  decide to convert your thing but anyway [TS]

  that's what they're doing it's a very [TS]

  simple straightforward policy and [TS]

  there's no choice in the matter and [TS]

  we're all just going to deal with it a [TS]

  couple people have reported their Mac's [TS]

  being unbootable but there it's still in [TS]

  beta and who knows but I suspect the Mac [TS]

  transition will be rockier than the iOS [TS]

  one and then the only other minor item [TS]

  on this page the link is a boot camp [TS]

  doesn't read it write a PFS case you [TS]

  were wondering I really hope book camp [TS]

  continues to be supported [TS]

  I hope they write a read-only driver for [TS]

  a PFS that you can at least read your [TS]

  stuff but right now you won't be able to [TS]

  so did boot camp read H of s I think [TS]

  there was a read-only driver for HFS [TS]

  maybe I'm taking on the other way with [TS]

  ahead and may I read only driver for [TS]

  NTFS but either way there is some way I [TS]

  think you can get HFS volumes you can at [TS]

  least read from them on Windows even if [TS]

  it's not through Apple stuff but ap Fest [TS]

  is just who knew and if anyone was gonna [TS]

  do it was gonna be Apple and they didn't [TS]

  yet anyway [TS]

  yeah this is totally a fine change to me [TS]

  like you know they they have this ap FS [TS]

  was automatically converted to and [TS]

  deployed very widely on iOS devices and [TS]

  as far as we know nothing bad happened [TS]

  and yes the the problem set is much [TS]

  smaller and iOS device so the number of [TS]

  possible configurations is much smaller [TS]

  you know it's like the edge case count [TS]

  is way smaller on iOS but also the [TS]

  install base is way bigger the usage is [TS]

  way bigger so it seems like a PFS is [TS]

  pretty solid and yes I'm sure there are [TS]

  error areas like like I believe they [TS]

  still haven't done automatic integrity [TS]

  checking right the filesystem level yes [TS]

  yes check sums I'm metadata only not on [TS]

  data right so like there are there areas [TS]

  of the filesystem that still could be [TS]

  improved you know ideally but what is [TS]

  there seems to be pretty solid you know [TS]

  the fact they deployed it to every iOS [TS]

  device and that's been running now for [TS]

  months and it's been totally fine that's [TS]

  pretty great so you know we know they're [TS]

  doing this carefully we know like that [TS]

  like Craig federighi mentioned in the [TS]

  talk show live it you see this year how [TS]

  light they would a couple of versions [TS]

  before that when they deployed to iOS [TS]

  they were they would do like test [TS]

  migrations and roll them back just at [TS]

  just and then like report back if [TS]

  anything failed to Apple so they knew [TS]

  what was happening there there have been [TS]

  some reports somebody pointed out that [TS]

  the latest Mac OS 10 update seemed to [TS]

  take a very long time to apply and so [TS]

  there was a theory that you know maybe [TS]

  it was doing the same thing maybe it was [TS]

  doing those tests might those test [TS]

  migrations that then get rolled back [TS]

  before it completed you know like it [TS]

  seems like Apple knows how to do this [TS]

  there it's already been done on a very [TS]

  very large scale and this will be [TS]

  relatively speaking a drop in the bucket [TS]

  again there are more edge cases on the [TS]

  Mac more different configurations that [TS]

  can be used more ways people use the [TS]

  file system or depend on things work in [TS]

  a certain way but I think they're doing [TS]

  a pretty good job of it and I trust them [TS]

  to do this correctly and carefully so I [TS]

  don't think this is bad at all you know [TS]

  that was pretty quick I have to concede [TS]

  I am stunned [TS]

  all right so Marco tell me about the [TS]

  lack of home button on the iPhone Pro / [TS]

  8 / whatever it's called because there [TS]

  seems to have been some news from [TS]

  Bloomberg that there will be no physical [TS]

  home button on the [TS]

  new iphone well we already knew there be [TS]

  no physical home button but this was [TS]

  this was more about like this is today's [TS]

  remember that came out that basically is [TS]

  claiming a certain way that the software [TS]

  based home button will work that is [TS]

  different than we've heard or assumed in [TS]

  the past so what we've assumed up till [TS]

  now are heard up until now as rumors is [TS]

  basically that there would be an area [TS]

  basically where the home button is now [TS]

  but there would be like an area on the [TS]

  phone that you would like push firmly [TS]

  there and it would go home and how that [TS]

  would be represented on the screen was [TS]

  up for debate there was some speculation [TS]

  from like the home pod former that maybe [TS]

  there's some kind of like home indicator [TS]

  that could show or hide different times [TS]

  maybe whether it's like a little circle [TS]

  down there or a dot or who knows the oh [TS]

  this is this whole area we know a lot [TS]

  from the home pod leak and from all the [TS]

  rumor sites we know some things pretty [TS]

  firmly about like the physical design of [TS]

  the next iPhone but the whole area that [TS]

  I think is most interesting to me is how [TS]

  the software will actually deal with [TS]

  this physical design and that is where [TS]

  that is still mostly unknown to us you [TS]

  know of all the leaks including the home [TS]

  pod firmware not to mention all the [TS]

  rumors there's not you would think at [TS]

  first like there's not much surprised [TS]

  left for the event but actually to me [TS]

  there's tons of surprise left because we [TS]

  still don't have concrete solid [TS]

  information and we still haven't seen [TS]

  how the software will actually deal with [TS]

  this bizarre all screen phone with this [TS]

  knots on the top that to me is the most [TS]

  interesting part and I think most of us [TS]

  going to remain a surprise anyway [TS]

  Bloomberg's trying to ruin that a little [TS]

  bit by supplying by clamping that the [TS]

  home button is going to work a totally [TS]

  different way that basically instead of [TS]

  having like an area that you push at the [TS]

  bottom that you're gonna have like a [TS]

  swipe up kind of gesture not that [TS]

  different from what the iPad does and I [TS]

  was living with the doc I like a big [TS]

  swipe up gesture to go home instead of [TS]

  pushing that area at the bottom and that [TS]

  therefore the entire screen basically [TS]

  will be usable as regular application [TS]

  area not just having that like hole in [TS]

  the bottom for a home button and maybe [TS]

  help maybe like a like a toolbar area to [TS]

  the left [TS]

  out of it and if this is true obviously [TS]

  this has a lot this raises a lot a lot [TS]

  of questions about implementation [TS]

  details if this is the direction they go [TS]

  I'm certainly that's going to be a major [TS]

  change so I'm certainly you know a [TS]

  little wary of it but it would it would [TS]

  avoid a lot of issues because if you [TS]

  think about if they do the the method [TS]

  that we assumed before this which is [TS]

  they have like a home area that if you [TS]

  push there it works like a home button [TS]

  which i think is roughly what samsung [TS]

  does with their edge to edge thing right [TS]

  like I use one in the store and I just [TS]

  kind of push down there and it seemed to [TS]

  work so I think that's basically what [TS]

  Samsung doesn't and that that works fine [TS]

  as far as I could tell when I use it for [TS]

  two seconds in a Best Buy but if they do [TS]

  that it does raise a lot of questions [TS]

  about things like well what what happens [TS]

  to app UI that's down there [TS]

  you know do you do you have tab bars [TS]

  still if so like does the tab bar just [TS]

  go completely on top of that so that [TS]

  that whole bottom half of the screen is [TS]

  just a home button and maybe something [TS]

  on the lesson right of it that maybe you [TS]

  can't control or you don't watch full [TS]

  control or you can only put like maybe a [TS]

  navigation I'm down there or something [TS]

  like that like is it like that because [TS]

  if that's the case then that whole [TS]

  bottom area is fairly significantly [TS]

  wasted like it's not totally wasted but [TS]

  like it's it raises the question of why [TS]

  even make it a screen if you're not [TS]

  gonna have much use for that for that [TS]

  area if they let applications put [TS]

  content down there but also have like a [TS]

  big home button hole in the middle of [TS]

  that bottom row then you have to think [TS]

  what happens with things like to have [TS]

  bars where you typically have like you [TS]

  know this row of four or five buttons [TS]

  across the bottom of the screen do you [TS]

  go with like a two on the left - on the [TS]

  right nothing in the middle kind of [TS]

  arrangement or something like that and [TS]

  just have a big hold and middle of any [TS]

  tab bar we goes in there you can that's [TS]

  one option it's not a great option but [TS]

  you know you can do that the the claimed [TS]

  method by this Bloomberg article is that [TS]

  it's going to be swipe based and that [TS]

  basically that the entire screen will be [TS]

  usable for apps or the vast majority the [TS]

  screen will use if I ask most of the [TS]

  time and there won't be this you know [TS]

  hole in the middle of the bottom that is [TS]

  reserved for the home button [TS]

  that some kind of swipe up from the [TS]

  bottom will be used instead to go home [TS]

  if so I'm interested to see that that [TS]

  that sounds like it would solve some of [TS]

  these problems I think it might [TS]

  introduce new problems but I don't think [TS]

  we know enough as like actual fact just [TS]

  speculation to say for sure like [TS]

  obviously this is what they're doing and [TS]

  we don't know that yet but we also don't [TS]

  like we don't have enough information [TS]

  here to really know for sure like what [TS]

  they're going to do I would also say [TS]

  that Bloomberg and Germans record on [TS]

  things like this in recent times has [TS]

  been pretty spotty so I would not take [TS]

  this as fact and would definitely take [TS]

  this as a given the thing he does lately [TS]

  but I don't understand because it [TS]

  doesn't seem like he needs to do this is [TS]

  writes about things in the present tense [TS]

  like Apple is experimenting with [TS]

  different ways of the home button can [TS]

  works like Apple perhaps did experiment [TS]

  with different ways of the home button [TS]

  Network but at this point with the event [TS]

  like a week or two away [TS]

  Apple is not experimenting with [TS]

  different ways different fundamental [TS]

  ways to use that bottom half of the [TS]

  screen pretty sure they know yeah like [TS]

  they picked one by now or even like [TS]

  worst case they have to complete [TS]

  implementations they're gonna pick [TS]

  between but they're not in the [TS]

  experimental stage anymore like a chip [TS]

  is sale anyway on this particular thing [TS]

  about the home button this gives a [TS]

  little bit more of the answer of what [TS]

  the heck do we get with edge to edge [TS]

  screen because if they don't have to [TS]

  dedicate any of the bottom of the screen [TS]

  to essentially to you I but the app can [TS]

  use at all hey I got now I could see [TS]

  more tweets right whatever like it's [TS]

  it's a benefit you can see it being a [TS]

  benefit it makes that part of the screen [TS]

  like you're actually using it's not just [TS]

  like a virtual representation of the the [TS]

  chin on our phones today but but all [TS]

  that said if it is swipe based swiping [TS]

  on on phones for me and I think I think [TS]

  forever just like in general to do a [TS]

  successful swipe case or no case [TS]

  anything like that is a you have to it's [TS]

  like you have to find the right balance [TS]

  between how hard you press your finger [TS]

  on the screen and how hard you swipe and [TS]

  how you hold the phone because obviously [TS]

  if you press too hard you get too much [TS]

  friction it's hard [TS]

  like slide your finger and do the [TS]

  gesture if you press too lightly and [TS]

  just graze it maybe you won't activate [TS]

  especially if like your fingers are cold [TS]

  or whatever right so there's a balance [TS]

  like you have to it is a it requires [TS]

  more finesse to do any kind of swipe [TS]

  gesture than it does to do a button [TS]

  press virtual or otherwise because with [TS]

  a button press you find the place where [TS]

  you need to apply the pressure and you [TS]

  just bear down and for the most part [TS]

  unless you go all the way through and [TS]

  activate fourth touch but even so maybe [TS]

  that's not that bad it is easier to sort [TS]

  of fumble in your pocket and like [TS]

  obviously the physical buttons just jam [TS]

  the sleep/wake button or Jam your finger [TS]

  on on the the home button moving or [TS]

  otherwise or if it was the bottom of the [TS]

  screen with the virtual thing Jam your [TS]

  finger somewhere on the bottom of the [TS]

  screen even if you can't feel it because [TS]

  now it's just a screen image but a swipe [TS]

  requires more finesse and for a move [TS]

  that you do so frequently pick up my [TS]

  phone put my finger on touch ID unlock [TS]

  it open it up pick it up activate it or [TS]

  whatever or just hit the home button to [TS]

  switch between apps or double tap to do [TS]

  the the switcher I'm a little bit wary [TS]

  of my ability my dexterity too for that [TS]

  maneuver that common maneuver to feel as [TS]

  comfortable as it does to me to just [TS]

  blindly ham-fisted lee press somewhere [TS]

  on the phone wherever that might be [TS]

  but I think my wariness will probably [TS]

  even if it is slightly worse I think it [TS]

  will be made up for by the additional [TS]

  screen real estate the screen real [TS]

  estate you enjoy all the time and the [TS]

  additional dexterity required to pull up [TS]

  the swipe things a it's probably only a [TS]

  problem for old people like you know you [TS]

  know for younger people who are more [TS]

  plastic and you're just getting used it [TS]

  that was used to it right but be as [TS]

  often as you may do that as often as you [TS]

  may activate the home button you spend [TS]

  way more time staring your front screen [TS]

  and scrolling through a list of stuff so [TS]

  I think in the end it's going to be a [TS]

  trade-off but I am a little bit wary of [TS]

  more swipe gestures I just think of all [TS]

  the swipe gestures I do on my phone now [TS]

  and how occasionally I'm not successful [TS]

  at them and that's not a pleasant [TS]

  experience whereas I'm pretty much [TS]

  always successful at pressing the home [TS]

  button [TS]

  yeah that's there there's a lot of [TS]

  potential for conflicts with that [TS]

  gesture like any gesture that involves a [TS]

  big swipe from any of the sides of the [TS]

  phone [TS]

  or in any large direction on the phone [TS]

  you're going to have substantial [TS]

  conflict risk with that with other [TS]

  things within apps or even other system [TS]

  gestures you know obviously one of the [TS]

  big questions is what do you do with [TS]

  control center is it the kind of thing [TS]

  where you pull up a little bit and you [TS]

  get control center and you pull up a lot [TS]

  and you go home or vice versa with that [TS]

  weird the same thing haven't I always [TS]

  eleven with the most you pull up a [TS]

  little bit he brings the doc but if you [TS]

  keep pulling it's the other thing and [TS]

  even just on iOS ten I found myself I'm [TS]

  really good at this gesture but I found [TS]

  myself looking at it consciously today [TS]

  and realizing how how how good how good [TS]

  I am at making this fine distinction [TS]

  after lots of practice if you pull down [TS]

  from the top of your phone like I think [TS]

  if I think notifications my thumb pulls [TS]

  down from the top of my phone I see [TS]

  notifications if I think launch an [TS]

  application that I just launched my [TS]

  thumb pulls down from the top of the [TS]

  phone and it shows recent applications [TS]

  because I'm on springboard there are two [TS]

  different gestures you have to start [TS]

  above the edge of the screen for the for [TS]

  the notifications and below the edge of [TS]

  the screen and beyond springboard for [TS]

  the apps but I just did them without [TS]

  thinking so I guess that's the best-case [TS]

  scenario that this is a bottom of the [TS]

  phone gesture but it's pretty picky like [TS]

  try to explain to somebody the nuances [TS]

  of swiping from off the edge of the [TS]

  screen versus just swiping sideways I've [TS]

  seen many people do the wrong version of [TS]

  that to bad effect and not understand [TS]

  why they didn't pull it off [TS]

  it's learn about but again it's it's [TS]

  subtle and it requires much more finesse [TS]

  than press this big circular button to [TS]

  bring back the place where you see all [TS]

  your apps yeah I'm curious to see where [TS]

  this goes [TS]

  and a lot of people been making [TS]

  comparisons to webOS which is presumably [TS]

  completely reasonable but I never used a [TS]

  webOS device so I don't know squat about [TS]

  it but I don't know I'm curious to see [TS]

  where this goes and see how it feels and [TS]

  in execution because I can tell you that [TS]

  for my initial I I only have iOS 11 on [TS]

  my iPad and my initial impression of of [TS]

  putting it there was where did Control [TS]

  Center go and eventually I was able to [TS]

  deduce oh you just need to swipe further [TS]

  but golly that's that's tough for like a [TS]

  normal user that isn't really thinking [TS]

  about these sorts of things and and I [TS]

  didn't care for it at all at first and [TS]

  over time I've gotten used to it the the [TS]

  the deep swipe or deep isn't the best [TS]

  word but the long sway [TS]

  in order to get control center but we'll [TS]

  see how it works on the phone I am [TS]

  really excited about the prospect of [TS]

  having a phone that's sized for humans [TS]

  but has screen from the plus so or you [TS]

  know roughly anyway so I'm very anxious [TS]

  about the thought of being able to buy [TS]

  one of those despite the fact that it's [TS]

  apparently going to be like over $1000 [TS]

  which I'm not too thrilled about but you [TS]

  know it is what it is yeah honestly I [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  acrobatics are required to to have this [TS]

  phone work so we want with things like [TS]

  touch ID face ID screen sizes edge [TS]

  swiping all this stuff I think it's [TS]

  probably going to be worth it because [TS]

  there's been this tension in the iPhone [TS]

  line ever since the introduction of the [TS]

  plus size phone which is like like many [TS]

  of us myself included want the screen of [TS]

  the plus like we want the biggest screen [TS]

  we can get but those phones are just too [TS]

  big for us to comfortably comfortably [TS]

  carry and and use and hold anything else [TS]

  so the idea of having a much bigger [TS]

  screen in the phone size that we're able [TS]

  to carry now like the middle size or [TS]

  something very close to it that's [TS]

  exactly what everybody wants like that [TS]

  that is so desirable that I think we're [TS]

  gonna be willing to tolerate quite a lot [TS]

  of weirdness and transitions and even [TS]

  possibly downsides to get that because [TS]

  that that is not a small thing yeah [TS]

  anyway thanks for three sponsors this [TS]

  week [TS]

  Kaspar audible and fracture and we'll [TS]

  see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean [TS]

  because it was accidental oh it was [TS]

  accidental John didn't do any research [TS]

  Marco Casey wouldn't let him because it [TS]

  was accidentally was accidental and you [TS]

  can find the show notes at ADP CAS UIL [TS]

  ISS so that's Casey list and a acción [TS]

  de RM ante Marco Arment [TS]

  as IR [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  so Casey what is your deep thought about [TS]

  batteries as indicated in the show notes [TS]

  it's actually a question and it's it's [TS]

  probably silly but I was thinking about [TS]

  this the other day and I was wondering [TS]

  if I could choose and thus I will be [TS]

  asking the two of you as well if I could [TS]

  choose one corporation that exists today [TS]

  to make a just night and day battery [TS]

  breakthrough so let's assume for the [TS]

  sake of this hypothetical that it takes [TS]

  you know one hundredth of the time to [TS]

  charge whatever battery we're talking [TS]

  about so if it's an iPhone it takes like [TS]

  you know a few seconds or something like [TS]

  that and if it's a Tesla it takes maybe [TS]

  10 minutes or something to go from from [TS]

  empty to full or maybe less than that [TS]

  given that the superchargers are pretty [TS]

  darn quick so if you could pick one and [TS]

  only one company to make just an utterly [TS]

  amazing battery breakthrough who would [TS]

  it be and the obvious answer for the [TS]

  three of us that is is Apple because we [TS]

  want our iPhones to last forever but I [TS]

  think it's bigger than that right so I [TS]

  wouldn't right so I never really reached [TS]

  a great conclusion which is funny for me [TS]

  to be bringing it up I feel like some [TS]

  auto manufacturer may be the best answer [TS]

  so that we could get into real [TS]

  honest-to-goodness electric cars that [TS]

  aren't compromise mobiles to be fair the [TS]

  Tesla is amazing it is amazing and the [TS]

  compromises are made in the best [TS]

  possible way but in a lot of ways I [TS]

  still feel like it's a series of [TS]

  compromises so I feel like some auto [TS]

  manufacturer maybe Tesla would be a [TS]

  really great answer here but I'm I'm I [TS]

  have a feeling after listening to you [TS]

  two I will be convinced then maybe [TS]

  there's a better choice so John you [TS]

  seemed pretty pretty enthusiastic about [TS]

  this what would you say if you could [TS]

  pick one company to make just a [TS]

  tremendous battery breakthrough who [TS]

  would it be so it's not a tremendous [TS]

  battery breakthrough unless because [TS]

  there are battery technology to do what [TS]

  you're saying but unless it also works [TS]

  out with a cost and manufacturability [TS]

  resources so that's what you're talking [TS]

  about yes yes that right [TS]

  and in the end batteries are a commodity [TS]

  so I would ideally this breakthrough it [TS]

  would come from academia or something [TS]

  not associated with the company that [TS]

  would probably be the easiest and gives [TS]

  you your best chance not to be [TS]

  encumbered by stupid patents or whatever [TS]

  but in the end what I want it to be is [TS]

  something that is that is able to be [TS]

  produced on a large scale by some boring [TS]

  company that just produces things on [TS]

  large scale so maybe an existing battery [TS]

  manufacturer or like you know General [TS]

  Motors or Siemens yeah or like any you [TS]

  know whatever whatever giant corporation [TS]

  that makes commodities of natural [TS]

  resources is the least evil right but [TS]

  but either way like I don't want it to [TS]

  be owned during controlled by a single [TS]

  company right and I want it to be the [TS]

  type of thing that everybody has access [TS]

  to because in the same way that everyone [TS]

  you know they're building of all this [TS]

  battery capacity for all the electric [TS]

  vehicles the car energy is actually not [TS]

  a bad place because in general there is [TS]

  no there is very little technological [TS]

  secret sauce and in terms of the [TS]

  commodities like Toyota will sell its [TS]

  hybrid powertrain to other people [TS]

  they're gonna pay from them some of if [TS]

  someone has excess capacity to [TS]

  manufacture some commodity type thing [TS]

  they will sell to other people right so [TS]

  I want it to be a very large company [TS]

  that's good at building things you know [TS]

  for everybody else in that it's all just [TS]

  like I will sell this to everybody who [TS]

  wants to sell it and just becomes a [TS]

  commodity that everybody is able to [TS]

  manufacture because the breakthrough [TS]

  happened in academia and all that all [TS]

  the patents are freely available um I [TS]

  wouldn't want Apple to do it or Tesla or [TS]

  any other thing because I'm afraid they [TS]

  tried to turn it into a competitive [TS]

  advantage that's the last thing we want [TS]

  we want the technology to spread [TS]

  everywhere far and wide we don't want it [TS]

  to be oh this lets Apple and/or Tesla [TS]

  extract a an extra six months or a year [TS]

  of larger profits because it takes [TS]

  longer for everyone else to catch up so [TS]

  it's not a very satisfying answer but [TS]

  it's just you know but it's not it's not [TS]

  the the old world where like there's a [TS]

  there's a breakthrough and it belongs to [TS]

  a company things like this like battery [TS]

  capacity or CPUs or like you know [TS]

  whatever material science in general [TS]

  should be and generally our [TS]

  industry-wide mark oh yeah i think jon [TS]

  coker pretty well hey [TS]

  you know if obviously like the the right [TS]

  answer is basically what John said a [TS]

  more interesting specific answer like if [TS]

  you think about what types of products [TS]

  or uses are really held back by battery [TS]

  technology today and you can look at [TS]

  things like you know computers and [TS]

  phones and and you know the tech gadgets [TS]

  that we all use and in many ways we're [TS]

  doing just fine like yeah everyone [TS]

  everyone could look we would all love [TS]

  more battery life we would all love to [TS]

  not have to plug in ever or to have to [TS]

  actually be able to use the amazing [TS]

  computing resources that are in these [TS]

  mobile devices frequently and all day [TS]

  without having to like massively [TS]

  throttle all the applications and very [TS]

  tightly control power or and you know [TS]

  obviously it would make a big difference [TS]

  in things like the Apple watch where [TS]

  like the application paradigms and the [TS]

  display uses could be so much better if [TS]

  we didn't have to worry so much about [TS]

  power constantly so that that's kind of [TS]

  like the boring answers like yeah make [TS]

  all of our tech gadgets have way better [TS]

  batteries that would be nice but we [TS]

  still have a great tech industry and and [TS]

  these gadgets are still awesome and [TS]

  amazingly capable even with what we [TS]

  already have so I think it might be more [TS]

  interesting to look at like where are [TS]

  areas in which batteries and better [TS]

  technology just is not good enough to [TS]

  even make big shifts possible yet or [TS]

  ever [TS]

  so obviously thing you can look at [TS]

  transportation in other ways and you can [TS]

  say like obviously like airplanes [TS]

  currently can't be electrically powered [TS]

  because like the power and weight ratio [TS]

  is just way off like they don't say that [TS]

  there are plenty of electric powered [TS]

  airplanes you mean airliners right yeah [TS]

  big airplanes yeah you know like they're [TS]

  like there's large parts of [TS]

  transportation that that like battery [TS]

  technology batteries you're just too [TS]

  heavy or too big or don't have the don't [TS]

  have the capacity or charge too slowly [TS]

  one area that's recently getting a [TS]

  little bit of traction and the electric [TS]

  vehicle news is trucks long-haul trucks [TS]

  like you know big semis and stuff lots [TS]

  of energy is spent on trucking and if [TS]

  you can Electrify trucks the way that [TS]

  cars are be able to be electrified that [TS]

  could have pretty substantial savings [TS]

  and to you know both people who truck [TS]

  and also like the environment around [TS]

  all these things like that could be a [TS]

  pretty significant fuel reduction and [TS]

  trucks have have an issue where you know [TS]

  you need a lot of power to move a big [TS]

  semi-truck with a big trailer and [TS]

  everything it's just a big load and [TS]

  they're not particularly aerodynamic so [TS]

  you need a lot of power and also [TS]

  truckers can't afford to sit around for [TS]

  like two hours while things recharge [TS]

  every hundred miles like that like they [TS]

  that's not feasible for that business [TS]

  it's like you for four trucks to be [TS]

  electrified you need significant [TS]

  improvements for that to really be a [TS]

  thing that could take off so like I [TS]

  would lean more towards areas like that [TS]

  really things that like you basically [TS]

  just can't do efficiently with batteries [TS]

  as we know them today just because like [TS]

  the the ratios and the economics and [TS]

  whatever else are just completely [TS]

  infeasible as we know them today that [TS]

  that would be my answer is like find [TS]

  things that we just can't really do [TS]

  electrically today in a reasonable way [TS]

  make those more practical or more [TS]

  feasible so obviously things like trucks [TS]

  I would say probably like container [TS]

  ships like you know big ships in in the [TS]

  ocean a similar problem airliner is like [TS]

  other parts of Transportation that it [TS]

  would be nice to eliminate their [TS]

  emissions and/or reduce their emissions [TS]

  at least and we just can't do that yet [TS]

  don't forget clothing going in the other [TS]

  direction your battery breakthrough [TS]

  could be you know amazing fast charging [TS]

  tiny lightweight inexpensive waterproof [TS]

  batteries that you can weave into [TS]

  clothing so that you can stream Spotify [TS]

  from your shorts because your shorts [TS]

  know how to streams qualified that's the [TS]

  other direction of like there's so many [TS]

  places where you can't use electric [TS]

  power at all because batteries are too [TS]

  big and bulky and every too much of a [TS]

  hassle but if batteries were the size of [TS]

  grains of sand and enough energy to [TS]

  stream Spotify all day it would be an [TS]

  every piece of clothing you own if they [TS]

  were also cheap to manufacture right do [TS]

  what I want my shorts to be playing [TS]

  music I'm not entirely sure it's a place [TS]

  it into your ears but it's the thing [TS]

  that receives the radio signals and [TS]

  sends it through bluetooth version eight [TS]

  bazillion up interior and your magic air [TS]

  pods [TS]

  whatever they could use bone conduction [TS]

  technology and send it through my sit [TS]

  bones [TS]

  you get your head up your ass killing [TS]

  music I just I feel like there's some [TS]

  humanitarian angle here that we're not [TS]

  considering you know like providing [TS]

  power to communities that simply don't [TS]

  have any like it's not even an option or [TS]

  or it's unaffordable or whatever the [TS]

  case that's like storage or solar energy [TS]

  that's you know better that just battery [TS]

  breakthrough but just like the energy [TS]

  problem like if you want world peace if [TS]

  you could solve the energy problem and [TS]

  there was like free energy for everybody [TS]

  that would solve a lot of problems [TS]

  really quickly because energy is [TS]

  convertible as you may know into many [TS]

  other goods and services right and it's [TS]

  all like if you can solve that problem [TS]

  like it doesn't take like you know you [TS]

  know the sort of sci-fi utopia is like [TS]

  if you had unlimited free energy for [TS]

  everybody no needs to work anymore like [TS]

  you just need to have the sort of base [TS]

  level technology to convert that energy [TS]

  into food and shelter and other types of [TS]

  things like it's a you know but we're [TS]

  you know that's thermodynamics has [TS]

  something to say about the whole free [TS]

  energy thing but we could you know [TS]

  deplete the the earth Firefly style and [TS]

  live all the high on the hog for a while [TS]

  until the machines take over and enslave [TS]

  us all well that's a positive outlook [TS]

  John but marker will be dead so he [TS]

  doesn't care [TS]