Hello Internet

H.I. #89 -- A Swarm of Bad Emoji


00:00:00   saying as you and I are both wearing

00:00:01   hello internet merchandise at the moment

00:00:03   you wearing a reunion swamp in t-shirt

00:00:06   and me that mighty nailing gear who it

00:00:09   does remind me of a question I've been

00:00:10   meaning to ask you for a while yeah I

00:00:12   don't want to put you on the spot here

00:00:14   but I am I had made for you and had sent

00:00:17   to you Oh a pair of hello Internet

00:00:20   limited edition sneakers Oh

00:00:22   oh yes I didn't really expect you to

00:00:26   wear them cuz you know you're you but

00:00:28   I'm curious as to what's happened to

00:00:30   them well I mean Brady I I think you

00:00:31   know I'm a real sneaker head I'm a big

00:00:35   fan of collecting sneakers yeah one of

00:00:37   the things when you're in the sneaker

00:00:39   head world or the sneaker verse as we

00:00:42   call it right is you you want to keep

00:00:45   your really special sneakers in mint

00:00:48   condition

00:00:49   yeah absolute pristine mint condition

00:00:52   suniverse is a good name as well who

00:00:54   universe I'll pass that on to the other

00:00:56   sneaker heads and see okay see how that

00:00:58   gets accepted on the ICQ where we chat

00:01:01   don't get me wrong I mean I have a pair

00:01:03   I wear and a second pair in mint

00:01:05   condition so I have my mint condition

00:01:06   pair I'm just wondering where your mint

00:01:09   condition pair is oh you want to know

00:01:13   where it is yeah I don't think you're

00:01:15   wearing them okay it's pride of place in

00:01:18   the house Brady they're in a box which

00:01:22   is behind my laundry hamper so that it

00:01:26   is as safe and as protected an item can

00:01:30   be in the house

00:01:31   if robbers were ever to show up they

00:01:33   won't find the hello internet sneakers

00:01:35   I'm impressed they're in the house I'm

00:01:37   happy with that I'll take that do you

00:01:38   feel like that's a victory yeah

00:01:40   did you honestly think Brady that I

00:01:42   might tell you that I had thrown away

00:01:43   the hello internet sneakers that you

00:01:45   have lovingly handmade well I didn't

00:01:48   think you'd tell me you had but I still

00:01:49   think there is a chance you have I think

00:01:51   it's more likely you've read them like

00:01:54   you sent them to a relative or someone

00:01:56   who listens to the show mm-hmm with my

00:01:58   same shoe size is that who I would send

00:02:00   it to well yeah I imagine you must have

00:02:03   some relative with the same same shoe

00:02:05   size as you probably yeah family trees

00:02:08   are quite extensive but now you haven't

00:02:10   reqif didn't know they're in my house

00:02:12   they

00:02:13   Henry gifted they are in mint condition

00:02:15   and shall remain so for ever I think

00:02:20   maybe I have been ever mint condition

00:02:25   conundrum at the moment hmm because for

00:02:29   my birthday which was back in June

00:02:31   mm-hmm I really wanted the Saturn 5 Lego

00:02:36   rocket that was released around that

00:02:39   time with 1969 pieces it was one of the

00:02:42   most impressive Lego things I'd ever

00:02:44   seen so I said to my wife because she

00:02:46   never knows what to get me for my

00:02:47   birthday I said that's what I want

00:02:49   mm-hmm so she got it for me I was over

00:02:52   the moon I was very pleased with it but

00:02:57   I haven't made it partly because I

00:03:00   haven't had time but also like I like

00:03:02   that it's in its box and in mint

00:03:04   condition and like I kind of like the

00:03:06   box and like knowing that all the pieces

00:03:08   of it and they're all beautifully

00:03:09   arranged and and I kind of don't want to

00:03:12   make it I'm seriously wondering if it's

00:03:14   still on sale whether I should buy a

00:03:16   second one so I can make one and keep

00:03:18   one in mint condition in a box as like a

00:03:20   display think I have some follow-up

00:03:24   questions here Brady hmm I feel like I

00:03:27   have ended up with a mint condition item

00:03:30   in my house through a series of

00:03:32   extraordinary circumstances but yeah

00:03:35   I've started a podcast with a friend

00:03:37   that podcast ended up creating

00:03:39   merchandise straight from the brain of

00:03:42   my friend who shipped some right to my

00:03:43   house it's not ordinary circumstances

00:03:45   that such a thing would exist

00:03:47   yeah you however are looking to

00:03:51   intentionally have a mint condition Lego

00:03:54   box and I'm imagining this is quite a

00:03:56   big Lego box like what's the size of

00:03:57   this thing I would say it's about the

00:04:00   size of two cake boxes two or three cake

00:04:03   boxes how the cake box as compared to

00:04:07   bread baskets I don't know this measure

00:04:08   you know the hello internet sneaker box

00:04:10   yes it's about the size of three of them

00:04:12   okay I have a sense of that but for the

00:04:14   listeners those who did not acquire

00:04:17   hello internet sneakers how many

00:04:18   Audrey's is the box

00:04:20   how many Audrey's could you fit inside

00:04:22   the box that's the standard measure we

00:04:23   use here

00:04:24   you could probably fit three to four

00:04:27   Audrey's in the box all right the audrey

00:04:29   has been packing on the pounds lately

00:04:31   that's good

00:04:32   my mental estimate here is you could fit

00:04:33   ten arteries in but you must be really

00:04:35   it depends on how tightly you pack them

00:04:37   and and how much she's been putting on

00:04:39   the weight oh so I'm aware that these

00:04:41   Lego things if they're unboxed have a

00:04:43   greater resale value like years later

00:04:46   but I never sell these things anyway so

00:04:48   I don't really think that's my reason I

00:04:51   don't think it's a financial

00:04:52   consideration I think it's just for

00:04:54   liking the neatness and the beauty of an

00:04:56   unboxed awesome thing right you're not

00:04:58   investing in Legos here no no and I just

00:05:02   feel like the boxed rocket and made just

00:05:07   feels like a nicer thing to me than if I

00:05:10   made it like if I made it I'm just gonna

00:05:12   have this big rocker that obviously is

00:05:15   made of Lego mm-hmm and like I don't

00:05:17   know where I'd put that or how I'd feel

00:05:18   about that whereas I really like the box

00:05:20   I just like how the Box looks and I like

00:05:23   knowing what's in it and I can't explain

00:05:25   it I know it's a bit weird I'm trying

00:05:27   very hard to understand and maybe I have

00:05:31   used this analogy before when I when I

00:05:33   try to think of these kinds of things

00:05:34   but the closest I can come is the

00:05:38   promise of unused stationery like an

00:05:42   unwritten in notebook that is true it is

00:05:45   the promise of what you could write in

00:05:48   there as opposed to what you actually do

00:05:51   which which just doesn't live up to the

00:05:53   ideal that analogy is good beyond what

00:05:56   you know because when I was a school

00:05:59   mm-hmm in year 3 mm-hmm so I must have

00:06:04   been what like around 8 years old or

00:06:06   something

00:06:06   mm-hmm yes but right my year 3 teacher

00:06:08   who I still remember was mrs. delbridge

00:06:10   and she had this diary which was a

00:06:14   five-year diary you could keep five

00:06:17   years in it because of the way the pages

00:06:19   were configured like oh five years

00:06:20   schedule do you mean like a calendar for

00:06:22   five years yeah it was basically yeah

00:06:24   okay especially what I was I had a

00:06:25   little lock on and I was completely

00:06:27   besotted by it mm-hmm and it was the

00:06:29   prize for the student who did the best

00:06:32   work in their journal that year we had

00:06:33   like a daily journal we had to write

00:06:35   stuff in it

00:06:36   I was just obsessed with winning it and

00:06:38   it was going to be given at the end of

00:06:40   the year and while most of the kids

00:06:43   didn't care about the journal and would

00:06:45   write stuff about like what they did

00:06:47   last night or what they watched on TV or

00:06:49   you know what they did in the holidays I

00:06:52   decided to turn my journal into like a

00:06:55   spy novel which I just wrote each day

00:06:57   and it was this fictional story about

00:06:59   this spy having all these adventures he

00:07:01   was called I am I don't know why I

00:07:03   called him okay it was this epic tale

00:07:06   spanning to exercise books and there was

00:07:09   one other girl in the class who kept a

00:07:11   really good journal and she had much

00:07:13   better handwriting than me of course she

00:07:15   also really wanted to win it and I was

00:07:17   convinced that she was gonna win it and

00:07:18   I still remember at the end of the year

00:07:20   mrs. Dilber sang and the winner of the

00:07:22   Diary is and she opened up the page and

00:07:24   my name had been written in the front

00:07:26   where it said this belongs to

00:07:27   then I'd won the five-year diary which

00:07:29   I'd wanted all year so I took it home

00:07:33   and I thought this is amazing this is I

00:07:35   finally got it it's mine I've coveted

00:07:38   this for so long and I never ever wrote

00:07:41   in it or did anything with it because I

00:07:43   was too scared to ruin the beautiful

00:07:45   empty diary I didn't want to sully it so

00:07:47   for the next three or four years I just

00:07:48   kept this five-year diary thinking next

00:07:50   year maybe I'll start it when I when my

00:07:52   handwriting's better and I know I won't

00:07:54   ruin it as I said your handwriting will

00:07:56   never be good enough to live up to the

00:07:57   idea of the diary yeah especially the

00:07:59   longer you have it as it has gone on for

00:08:02   two years it becomes like oh well now I

00:08:04   really need to have something great to

00:08:06   write in this thing yeah it's like if

00:08:07   you're keeping a bottle of champagne for

00:08:09   a special occasion the longer you go

00:08:11   without drinking the special allure the

00:08:13   occasion needs to be in order to drink

00:08:15   that champagne like well we haven't

00:08:16   drank this for two years now it has to

00:08:18   be an amazing event you sort of say

00:08:20   critize an object by not using it that's

00:08:22   it that's what's happening to the rocket

00:08:23   mm-hmm say critizing anta yeah I think

00:08:26   that is what what's happening my

00:08:27   strategy for this at least with paper

00:08:30   stationery because I used to use paper

00:08:32   notebooks all the time

00:08:33   I can used always have a paper notebook

00:08:34   with me I used to write in paper

00:08:35   notebooks for all kinds of projects and

00:08:37   the stationery used to be a much bigger

00:08:39   part of my life than it currently is but

00:08:41   I was always aware of feeling that

00:08:45   feeling about oh my dumb ideas are not

00:08:47   worthy of this pristine book and so my

00:08:49   strategy was to just every time I got a

00:08:52   notebook intentionally just scribble all

00:08:55   over the first page like okay now it's

00:08:58   fine because there's no this first page

00:09:01   needs to be the opening lines of war in

00:09:03   peace

00:09:04   I am Dees a critizing but maybe it's

00:09:08   like degrading the notebook down to my

00:09:10   normal human level I was like okay well

00:09:12   now I can write sullying it when I got

00:09:16   my new iPhone the other day the first

00:09:19   day I had I happened to go to the gym

00:09:20   and when I go to the gym I give my phone

00:09:22   and my car keys and my wallet to my

00:09:23   trainer and he goes into like a back

00:09:25   locked room and puts them in his gym bag

00:09:27   mm-hmm so I said I've got a new phone

00:09:30   and I hand it over to him and I said can

00:09:31   you just be careful when you put it in

00:09:33   that the keys like scratch up against

00:09:35   the phone Lou and I never say things

00:09:37   like that

00:09:37   he looked at me funny and I said I just

00:09:39   got the phone today and you know I don't

00:09:40   want to scratch it and he was like I had

00:09:42   no problems I understand I'll be really

00:09:43   careful when I put it in my bag mm-hmm I

00:09:45   went back to the gym two days later and

00:09:47   handed over my stuff to him and he said

00:09:49   I'll be careful and I said don't care

00:09:51   any more seriously as the half-life of

00:09:54   it was to the iPhone is sacred for a day

00:09:56   and after that I don't care but the

00:09:59   first day you have it you know you're

00:10:00   polishing it on your t-shirt all the

00:10:01   time to make sure there's no

00:10:02   fingerprints on it and making sure it's

00:10:04   so beautiful and then two days later it

00:10:06   was like yeah

00:10:07   chuck it in it's just my phone now so

00:10:10   after there's big conversation about how

00:10:11   sacred

00:10:12   your unopened box of Lego is what do you

00:10:14   think you're going to do here braiding

00:10:15   it's still open I don't know what you

00:10:18   might have to do is buy the second box

00:10:20   hmm

00:10:20   build the Lego Saturn rocket and then

00:10:24   display the Lego Saturn rocket on top of

00:10:26   the box

00:10:26   with the other one what will I do with

00:10:29   the empty box will you'll throw that one

00:10:30   away have you seen how gorgeous the box

00:10:34   is this is the point in these

00:10:35   conversations Brady where I feel like

00:10:36   I've tried to work with you but now it's

00:10:38   too far you're gonna keep two identical

00:10:41   boxes of a lego Construction Set in your

00:10:44   head that's what you're gonna do that's

00:10:45   the ultimate idea when you were going to

00:10:46   buy the second one is that you're going

00:10:48   to keep the two boxes because they're

00:10:49   beautiful okay but you know that's crazy

00:10:51   right it would be a difficult box to

00:10:53   throw away that's all I'm saying I don't

00:10:55   know man I feel like we're getting close

00:10:57   to an episode of Hoarders when you're

00:10:58   telling me that you're gonna keep both

00:10:59   of the boxes of the Saturn 5 rocket when

00:11:01   you both

00:11:02   yeah tell me I have a second one don't

00:11:05   tie me up that your plan is when you get

00:11:08   the second vote you're going to keep it

00:11:09   I don't know man

00:11:11   I could go along with the constructed

00:11:13   rocket in front of or on top of the box

00:11:15   of the unopened one but that's a keep

00:11:17   the two boxes like I don't know I don't

00:11:20   know what to say to you yeah I don't

00:11:21   know him what why it's gonna go because

00:11:23   while they are nice it is a nice box it

00:11:25   is a little bit childish so it's not

00:11:27   really in keeping with the look of my

00:11:29   office you know with the nice green

00:11:31   walls and lovely framed pictures so but

00:11:34   it's your office your office is what you

00:11:36   want to make it you can have Lego

00:11:38   Rockets in your office if you want to

00:11:39   yeah but I want it to have a certain

00:11:40   grown-up look as well right of course

00:11:42   go on and look do you know quite often

00:11:47   when I go through feedback like in the

00:11:49   emails and on the reddit and stuff like

00:11:51   that I do enjoy it and I am grateful for

00:11:54   it but it always feels quite like

00:11:57   sometimes it feels a bit antagonistic

00:11:59   there is a certain heat to it that

00:12:02   sometimes can rile you up or you don't

00:12:04   enjoy especially when people are

00:12:06   disagreeing on things or disagreeing

00:12:08   with us it's like manner because you

00:12:09   know they feel frustrated because they

00:12:11   can't get their say to us we're gonna

00:12:13   feel a bit frustrated because we can't

00:12:14   answer all their comments I've been

00:12:17   going through a lot of the feedback on

00:12:18   which is better the moon landing or the

00:12:21   Mars landing

00:12:22   oh the which is more impressive and

00:12:23   there's been lots of discussion about it

00:12:25   yeah their hands their hands and both

00:12:26   views are be important you know what

00:12:27   I've completely enjoyed it mm-hmm I've

00:12:30   enjoyed the tone of it

00:12:32   I've enjoyed both sides of the argument

00:12:34   I still think I'm right of course and

00:12:36   the moon landing is more impressive than

00:12:38   the Mars landing but I've enjoyed what

00:12:39   the Mars landing people have had to say

00:12:41   I've enjoyed engaging with a little bit

00:12:43   of it it's been one of the more

00:12:44   enjoyable bits of civilized feedback and

00:12:48   discussions we've had as a result of the

00:12:50   show that's nice to hear baby hmm there

00:12:54   is also always the problem when you're

00:12:56   going through feedback if you've made

00:12:58   anything online and then people are

00:13:00   leaving comments and I feel like this is

00:13:01   also one of the fundamental problems of

00:13:03   the Internet is that there is no

00:13:04   indication of tone of how the person is

00:13:08   saying the other thing I think it's very

00:13:10   easy when you're reading feedback that

00:13:11   is critical of you that the the narrator

00:13:14   in your head

00:13:15   for the comment that you're reading has

00:13:17   angry tone which might not at all be

00:13:19   what the person is intending which of

00:13:22   course is why we have a proliferation of

00:13:24   emoticons and smiley faces everywhere

00:13:26   but at least on on Reddit and YouTube

00:13:28   like the emoji encroachment has not

00:13:30   reached their to a full extent so I

00:13:32   think it can be hard to understand how

00:13:34   did the person mean the comment but I'm

00:13:37   very happy that you've been enjoying the

00:13:38   Moon vs Mars feedback I also enjoy all

00:13:40   those comment threads I still think that

00:13:44   Mars is more impressive to me but I felt

00:13:47   myself a bit swayed by the idea that for

00:13:50   humans on the long scale the moon is

00:13:53   objectively more impressive I felt

00:13:56   myself pulled in that direction by the

00:13:57   feedback yeah I think maybe the reason

00:13:59   I've found it so easy reading the

00:14:01   feedback is my assuredness that I'm

00:14:03   right hahaha

00:14:05   maybe it's that you're so confident in

00:14:08   your opinion that it's just like oh yeah

00:14:10   there's no there's no arguing with a

00:14:12   Brady on this oh so there was another

00:14:15   big space event since we last recorded

00:14:18   and this was the Cassini space probe

00:14:21   which had been doing the business around

00:14:23   Saturn for years now and send you back

00:14:25   all these great photos mm-hmm that

00:14:27   mission finally came to its end and it

00:14:30   was sent plunging into the atmosphere of

00:14:32   Saturn for a big dramatic finale because

00:14:34   they didn't want to leave it just you

00:14:36   know cruising around the orbit of Saturn

00:14:38   as space junk yeah basically and I have

00:14:41   in the past been critical of height and

00:14:45   space sheer pressure and things like

00:14:47   that movie and admittedly when this was

00:14:49   happening I did go on Twitter and I was

00:14:51   a little bit naughty and made a few

00:14:52   provocative tweets just for fun but I

00:14:55   will say overall I thought the level of

00:14:59   Cassini hype in my timeline at least in

00:15:02   the social media I was saying was

00:15:04   pitched just perfect it was right this

00:15:06   time I was very pleased

00:15:08   I thought the mainstream media may be

00:15:10   slightly under played it but of course a

00:15:12   space note is always going to think that

00:15:13   but the space cheerleaders around the

00:15:16   place I thought it was about right you

00:15:19   know they were passionate and emotional

00:15:21   and I teased them about it a little bit

00:15:23   on the Twitter particularly when I said

00:15:26   that taking nice pictures of Saturn is

00:15:27   low-hanging fruit

00:15:29   but overall I thought it was about right

00:15:31   and I wish they're all science events

00:15:34   were treated about that tone

00:15:36   there was a proportional response you

00:15:40   think taking pictures of Saturdays

00:15:42   low-hanging fruit yeah it's a bit oh

00:15:44   we're isn't amazing we got these

00:15:46   beautiful pictures of a satin I mean

00:15:47   anyone with the 2005 Nokia pointing

00:15:50   vaguely in the direction of sad could

00:15:52   take an amazing photo set but don't get

00:15:55   me wrong I did like the scene II

00:15:56   preferred the Voyager missions myself

00:15:59   well you will have a Voyager man I said

00:16:01   that on Twitter as well

00:16:02   I said I'm more of avoid you man I was

00:16:05   impressed by Cassini and it was a really

00:16:07   cool mission its Voyager 2 still going

00:16:10   I'm just realizing I don't know is is

00:16:11   that yeah I think they're still getting

00:16:12   signals from both of them there's a new

00:16:15   story every few weeks that they've

00:16:16   finally left the solar system as the

00:16:18   definition of the solar system keeps

00:16:20   changing for PR reasons really you're so

00:16:22   cynical there hasn't been a void you

00:16:24   left the solar system story for a few

00:16:26   weeks and actually so I'm sure we can

00:16:27   redefine the edge of the sun's magneto

00:16:30   sphere once again has the true edge of

00:16:32   the solar system so we can get that

00:16:34   story and just quickly can I praised

00:16:36   SpaceX for a minute and you're trying to

00:16:38   win over our commenters Brady I think

00:16:41   they did something I like credit where

00:16:43   credit's due

00:16:44   they posted a YouTube video montage of

00:16:47   their greatest failures and crashes it

00:16:50   was this brilliant montage of rockets

00:16:52   exploding and everything that went wrong

00:16:53   and I really enjoyed it I thought it was

00:16:57   really cool and I liked that they were

00:16:58   able to take the mickey out of himself

00:17:01   in that way it hacked back to a famous

00:17:03   scene in the film the right stuff where

00:17:05   they show a whole bunch of rocket

00:17:06   failures so maybe - and the stage would

00:17:08   kick in again but it was a really cool

00:17:11   video this was on the official channel

00:17:12   they published a compilation of their

00:17:14   failures yes

00:17:15   is this it how not to land an orbital

00:17:17   rocket booster it probably is yeah you

00:17:21   know what I've got to give a company

00:17:23   credit for doing that kind of thing yeah

00:17:24   I mean to be fair if you've got that

00:17:26   incredible sexy footage why not use it

00:17:28   because there's not many things more

00:17:29   amazing to look at then a rocket going

00:17:31   wrong but still some companies would not

00:17:34   couch it in this way so good on them I'm

00:17:37   watching the video now it's pretty good

00:17:39   and it certainly helps if these are all

00:17:41   unmanned

00:17:42   rockets yeah it did occur to me that the

00:17:44   first time something goes wrong with a

00:17:45   rocket with a person on it that this

00:17:47   video is gonna maybe come back to bite

00:17:50   them on the backside which is why the

00:17:51   companies would do it that's exactly it

00:17:53   you're putting something out there in

00:17:55   the world for people to hold against you

00:17:56   but I'll give a company credit for doing

00:17:57   that kind of thing this is definitely

00:17:59   some impressive explosions yeah they're

00:18:02   nice nice footage I'll put it in the

00:18:04   show notes for people to watch so

00:18:05   speaking of your approval of the Cassini

00:18:08   news coverage there's something I want

00:18:11   to touch on from two shows ago there was

00:18:14   a topic that came up briefly and it was

00:18:17   when you were discussing the overhyped

00:18:19   eclipse in America yeah the eclipse of

00:18:22   the millennium I believe was what it was

00:18:24   being called I know when you're poking

00:18:26   me on purpose I'm not even gonna bother

00:18:28   correct was that because they're not

00:18:29   right I might be mistaken I don't know

00:18:31   by the way I do realize when you'd like

00:18:32   to deliberately say things wrong like a

00:18:34   dad you know who does it just to whine

00:18:36   the kids up okay you keep not

00:18:37   understanding what akka means I do know

00:18:39   you do that on purpose by the way

00:18:41   oh I understand what akka mean it's

00:18:43   great I think I understand I got better

00:18:44   than you I think you're too close to it

00:18:47   and you can't understand what akka

00:18:49   really is all right but yes I was

00:18:51   critical of the eclipse of the century

00:18:53   hype coming from our friends across the

00:18:56   Atlantic yeah so you made some comments

00:18:58   about the American centric nests of

00:18:59   American news and speaking of feedback

00:19:02   in the comments there were about a

00:19:04   bazillion comments in the reddit where

00:19:06   people were jumping on this bandwagon

00:19:09   about how American centric the news is

00:19:11   and I am NOT one to defend the news

00:19:15   people might be aware of that but this

00:19:17   is one case we didn't touch upon it at

00:19:19   the time but I have to say reading the

00:19:21   comments where people were complaining

00:19:22   about how American centric the news in

00:19:24   America is I'm fine with that

00:19:26   of all of the myriad of things I could

00:19:28   complain about American news the fact

00:19:31   that it focuses on America is like the

00:19:34   most minor of complaints that could

00:19:35   possibly be I think it's actually

00:19:38   totally justified for example there was

00:19:41   a comment that I'm I'm sort of picking

00:19:42   at random but I think works well as an

00:19:45   example where there was someone from

00:19:48   Brazil who was complaining about having

00:19:49   moved to America that nobody in America

00:19:52   knows anything about

00:19:54   right that it never comes up on the

00:19:55   American news they were you know sort of

00:19:58   making fun of Americans for saying

00:19:59   Americans would ask him if he speaks

00:20:01   Brazilian as a question about like

00:20:02   what's what's Brazil like or not knowing

00:20:05   where in the world Brazil is that's like

00:20:07   I kind of get that it's funny to make

00:20:10   fun of Americans for not knowing these

00:20:12   things but what I was thinking about was

00:20:14   I was trying to think okay what is to

00:20:17   Brazil as Brazil is to America

00:20:20   how do we measure the different sizes of

00:20:22   countries and this may not be a perfect

00:20:25   comparison but I thought I think you

00:20:28   could use the GDP of a country as a

00:20:32   rough first order approximation for how

00:20:36   important is it in the world I'm not

00:20:38   saying that's a perfect measure but I

00:20:40   think we can ballpark that yeah and it

00:20:44   works out just about perfectly that the

00:20:46   Brazilian GDP is one-tenth the size of

00:20:49   the American GDP and of course the

00:20:52   United States GDP is the largest in the

00:20:54   world by a pretty decent margin so the

00:20:57   country that is to Brazil as Brazil is

00:20:59   to the United States is a country like

00:21:02   the Czech Republic or Romania and I just

00:21:07   kind of would love to know how often the

00:21:11   goings-on of Romania or the Czech

00:21:14   Republic are in Brazilian news and if

00:21:18   someone from Romania could be like oh

00:21:19   the Brazilian news doesn't cover Romania

00:21:22   as often as they think it should but it

00:21:24   would feel like well of course it

00:21:26   doesn't how does the Czech Republic or

00:21:28   Romania impact Brazil like not really a

00:21:30   lot and so I really feel like American

00:21:33   news is American centric Ness it's

00:21:36   totally fine and it's a thing that I am

00:21:38   very happy to defend as far as American

00:21:41   news goes well maybe I didn't put my

00:21:44   case properly mm-hmm I think it is ok

00:21:46   for news to be parochial mm-hmm I worked

00:21:49   on the newspaper in Adelaide and

00:21:50   everything was about what's the Adelaide

00:21:52   angle if a huge disaster happens on the

00:21:55   other side of the world the first thing

00:21:56   we wonder is I wonder if anyone from

00:21:58   Adelaide was there Pirozhki onus is fair

00:22:01   enough I think the American news does go

00:22:04   too far like I think they're too

00:22:06   cool I think they could just turn that

00:22:09   dial down just a little bit but I'm

00:22:12   alright with Pirozhki or news coverage

00:22:13   because you got a play to your audience

00:22:16   mm-hmm but my problem is they're kind of

00:22:18   it's almost kind of like a well I hope

00:22:21   it's a willful ignorance for example if

00:22:23   a new building got built in America that

00:22:25   was taller than every other building in

00:22:27   America but it was shorter than the Burj

00:22:30   Khalifa which is the tallest building in

00:22:31   the world and say it was built in

00:22:34   Chicago and then the American news in

00:22:37   the Chicago News ran a story about this

00:22:40   new building and called it the biggest

00:22:42   building ever I'd be like no it's not

00:22:46   the biggest building ever it's the

00:22:47   biggest building in America mm-hmm

00:22:50   that's like how the finals of the

00:22:51   baseball in America is called the World

00:22:53   Series that's the classic example isn't

00:22:55   it this is not the World Series to

00:22:57   decide the world champions they crowned

00:22:59   the world champions of baseball every

00:23:00   year based on who won a domestic us

00:23:03   competition well it does include Canada

00:23:06   greatly this is more where my problem is

00:23:08   it's kind of this this ignorant of the

00:23:10   bigger picture mm-hmm and I think that's

00:23:12   the problem I think you need to know how

00:23:15   you fit into the world

00:23:17   I don't mind skewing the coverage and

00:23:19   you know not covering every minor

00:23:22   incident that happens in Romania mm-hmm

00:23:24   but I think it's degrees and I think

00:23:27   America goes a little bit too far there

00:23:29   are some TV channels in the UK when

00:23:32   they're covering the news and they try

00:23:33   to be all high and mighty and be really

00:23:35   international and I get really bored I

00:23:37   think yeah enough of all this boring

00:23:39   stuff about the stuff that's happening

00:23:41   in other countries this is so worthy

00:23:43   tell me why there was a big traffic jam

00:23:45   on my motorway today you know I want my

00:23:47   local news so you can't go too far the

00:23:49   other way and be to unsend Trek but I

00:23:53   think America goes the other way it's to

00:23:55   America centric I want my porridge is

00:23:57   just right is that too much to ask

00:24:00   I mean look as a man who wants to bend

00:24:03   the entire world to his will I

00:24:05   understand you want your porridge just

00:24:07   right I can sympathize there I think of

00:24:09   a lot of this stuff in life like it I

00:24:11   don't know how to articulate this very

00:24:13   well but it's a bit like everything in

00:24:15   life is a series of dials and it's like

00:24:17   yes of course we would want the dial to

00:24:19   be tuned just

00:24:20   right but you can never know when it's

00:24:22   tuned just right so you have to think

00:24:25   about it in terms of like well what

00:24:26   happens if this dial is tuned too much

00:24:28   and what happens if it's tuned too

00:24:31   little and think about like what are the

00:24:33   consequences in in these directions

00:24:36   because you just don't know where the

00:24:38   exact correct setting is and I look at

00:24:40   the American centric nests of American

00:24:42   news and and feel mostly like well of

00:24:44   course this dial is going to be turned

00:24:46   way to one side and it's because the

00:24:50   United States is it's like such an

00:24:52   incredibly large and important

00:24:55   economically in political country in the

00:24:57   world and very few other countries can

00:25:01   impact the United States in any

00:25:03   meaningful way

00:25:04   and essentially the only foreign news

00:25:06   that Americans get is about the

00:25:08   countries that may be able to impact the

00:25:10   United States and in some way and that

00:25:12   is a tiny handful of countries and to

00:25:16   expect that it's much broader beyond

00:25:19   that I think is kind of unreasonable

00:25:21   like the stuff like the world series is

00:25:22   just funny and that's why the eclipse of

00:25:24   the century was a perfect example

00:25:26   because as you said last time I was like

00:25:27   how is this being measured like there's

00:25:29   no there's no objective way it's the

00:25:31   eclipse of the century except that it's

00:25:32   happening right now in America like that

00:25:35   stuff is funny my personal peeve is a

00:25:37   kind of beating on Americans for not

00:25:40   knowing about the world outside and I

00:25:43   think it's because it's such an

00:25:44   asymmetric relationship like people in

00:25:46   other countries know all sorts of stuff

00:25:49   about America because what America does

00:25:51   affects those countries but Americans

00:25:53   don't know about the countries that

00:25:55   their policies affect because one

00:25:57   there's vastly more of them and and two

00:26:00   like well frankly those countries their

00:26:02   actions don't really affect the United

00:26:04   States nearly as much so like II just I

00:26:06   just think it's not surprising that this

00:26:08   is the situation that we're in that's a

00:26:10   bit of a shame mm-hmm I can spare for

00:26:12   shame that's something so powerful and

00:26:13   that can affect so many other people is

00:26:16   so unaware of those people but I hear

00:26:20   argument I guess it bothers me mostly

00:26:22   because I remember coming to the UK a

00:26:23   long time ago and getting into

00:26:25   conversations with people about how like

00:26:26   oh it's amazing how you don't know

00:26:27   anything about all of our countries and

00:26:29   I was originally on the side of like oh

00:26:31   I should I should feel totally ashamed

00:26:33   by

00:26:33   but then eventually I kind of changed my

00:26:35   mind I'm like wait a minute what like

00:26:37   why would I know the details of like how

00:26:39   the politics in France works like why

00:26:42   would this ever be a thing that would

00:26:44   come across my attention before having

00:26:46   having moved to Europe like it never

00:26:48   would in any meaningful way so I

00:26:50   shouldn't feel bad about not having

00:26:52   known it when I showed up so I think

00:26:54   that's why it's like a little personal

00:26:55   thing for me I'm okay with you defending

00:26:57   your countrymen but I do think one

00:27:00   should strive for more information and

00:27:04   more knowledge in life in all ways and

00:27:06   that includes knowledge of the world and

00:27:09   you know we should know how the

00:27:10   electoral system in France works I don't

00:27:12   but I shouldn't be proud that I don't I

00:27:15   should say I wish I did I wish I knew

00:27:17   everything but I do feel like a

00:27:20   statement like oh we should all strive

00:27:21   to know more about the world like it's

00:27:22   very easy to say but it's very hard to

00:27:25   agree with the specifics of what exactly

00:27:27   does that mean because there's an

00:27:29   infinite amount of things to know about

00:27:31   absolutely everything and so if we

00:27:34   accept that as a premise we immediately

00:27:37   have to start filtering out almost

00:27:39   everything about everything it's not

00:27:42   possible to know about all of the things

00:27:44   so there there has to be some sort of

00:27:46   filter again that's why I'm not

00:27:48   surprised that Americans they know about

00:27:50   America and maybe not very much beyond

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00:29:31   so grace since we last spoke I know

00:29:35   there's been another announcement from

00:29:37   the temple the temple Apple has

00:29:39   announced new iPhones for all the fans

00:29:43   and I'll tell you what if you went to a

00:29:45   dictionary and looked up unimpressed you

00:29:49   could put a photo of me watching the

00:29:51   iPhone announcement there yeah as far as

00:29:56   I can tell and you set me straight if

00:29:57   I'm wrong but this new iPhone don't can

00:30:01   I call it iPhone X I know I'm supposed

00:30:03   to call it 10 okay no let's let's get

00:30:05   this on the record here I am boycotting

00:30:07   the 10 they're not going along with

00:30:10   their it's iPhone 10 it's like I'm sorry

00:30:12   if you're gonna put the big letter X

00:30:13   there I'm calling it X it's it's not

00:30:16   gonna happen I Apple but I feel like

00:30:18   like pulling out the X in any branding

00:30:21   time it's like your big gun isn't it and

00:30:23   that's like okay it's time it's time for

00:30:26   the X version of whatever we've got

00:30:28   mm-hmm so I expect it to be pretty

00:30:30   awesome like game-changer and as far as

00:30:34   I can tell this is not a game changer

00:30:36   this is just more faffing around the

00:30:39   edges and I think they've wasted their X

00:30:43   I think they've gone early on the X

00:30:45   whether it's out of desperation or they

00:30:48   were just running out of time because

00:30:50   they were approaching them pretend and

00:30:51   they thought that was when they could

00:30:52   you they had to use their X you know

00:30:55   well I would argue that they had if they

00:30:57   didn't want to use the 10 they could

00:30:59   have had several more years

00:31:00   of not using the ten right because yeah

00:31:02   because they they have their little s

00:31:04   their little in between years so we had

00:31:06   seven they could have done seven s 8 8 s

00:31:09   9 9 s and then count to 10 so they could

00:31:13   have had what was at six years I heard

00:31:15   there was some technical reason they

00:31:16   couldn't use 9 I find that hard to

00:31:18   believe but okay

00:31:19   what do I know about this stuff but

00:31:21   anyway I am disappointed from what I've

00:31:24   seen so far

00:31:25   I'm not yearning to get one from a

00:31:27   thousand pounds

00:31:29   am I wrong should I want one what would

00:31:31   you want the X to have what would make

00:31:33   you feel like wow that's the kind of X

00:31:36   you want to see in the world emojis that

00:31:38   move when I fuck move my face no well

00:31:40   good news for you feels like it should

00:31:44   be like a new birth it should be the

00:31:46   monolith descending from the sky if I

00:31:48   knew the answer to that I would either

00:31:49   work at Apple or I would have a really

00:31:52   trendy cool designed monochrome blog

00:31:55   where I wrote about it every day I'm not

00:31:56   thinking of one in particular by the way

00:31:58   because I don't know any of them that is

00:31:59   what they all sort of seem like to me

00:32:00   all these like really minimalist design

00:32:03   blogs I'll tell you another thing about

00:32:06   podcasters that annoys me is when they

00:32:09   refer to the fact that they wrote about

00:32:10   something like that's a big deal but you

00:32:13   know yeah I can talk on a podcast all

00:32:14   day but actually I wrote an article

00:32:16   about that like suddenly that oh hang on

00:32:18   you wrote an article about that well

00:32:21   that's different political podcasts are

00:32:23   really bad for this like political

00:32:24   journalists who like just waffle about

00:32:26   politics and they'll say actually I

00:32:28   wrote an article about that this week

00:32:29   they're probably worse than the Apple

00:32:31   people for that like it's somehow now

00:32:33   it's scripture cuz it's written down and

00:32:34   it's more important than just waffling

00:32:36   don't you think it is though Brady I

00:32:38   mean this is one of the things I like

00:32:39   about podcasts is I mean you and I we've

00:32:43   just shown up we're having a little chat

00:32:44   here even though we were just talking

00:32:47   about the American centric mists of

00:32:48   American news and I feel like that's a

00:32:50   very different conversation than if I

00:32:52   sat down and I was going to write an

00:32:54   article defending that same topic right

00:32:56   if you write something I think it is a

00:32:58   bigger deal than - doing a podcast cuz

00:33:00   in the podcast you're just talking right

00:33:02   yeah okay I see what you're saying but I

00:33:04   think it puts an importance on what's

00:33:06   written basically just on a blog on the

00:33:08   Internet into some kind of important

00:33:11   fear they'd like that's not like it's

00:33:13   gone through peer review

00:33:14   and it's more right you're still just

00:33:17   some Joker who wrote an article on a

00:33:18   blog actually I wrote now - cool about

00:33:21   that so now now what I'm saying like has

00:33:24   more credence or something like no it

00:33:26   doesn't you just also wrote down what

00:33:28   you think I guess I know what you're

00:33:32   saying but I still feel like they're

00:33:33   very different things what is your you

00:33:35   don't like your one that when they're

00:33:37   simply referencing that's like oh I have

00:33:38   an important piece of work and you're

00:33:40   listening to a podcast and you're

00:33:41   thinking like hey you're a guy listen to

00:33:43   talk about politics all the time what's

00:33:45   the difference if you've written it down

00:33:46   versus you're talking about it it just

00:33:48   sort of seems irrelevant it's like okay

00:33:49   good for you i'm listening to the

00:33:50   podcast like it's okay if they say like

00:33:53   there's a lot of things about that that

00:33:55   you know I'm not gonna say now so you

00:33:57   should be the article but they just they

00:33:58   just sort of say it as an aside

00:33:59   oh yeah wrote an article about that and

00:34:01   then they go on to regurgitate sort of

00:34:02   the odd I don't know there's something

00:34:04   about it that just rubs me up the wrong

00:34:06   way it's like a paper cut mm-hmm

00:34:08   the thing that's funny to me about this

00:34:10   is I just always feel like we said

00:34:12   before everything we're talking about on

00:34:13   this podcast is sort of off the record

00:34:15   because we're just talking like on my

00:34:17   Wikipedia page I sometimes see quotes

00:34:19   from things that I've said on the

00:34:20   podcasts like on my own Wikipedia page

00:34:23   explaining a thing and I always feel

00:34:25   like weirdly annoyed by that like but it

00:34:27   was just I was just talking like but now

00:34:29   this quote of a thing that I just said

00:34:31   offhandedly is like the representative

00:34:33   thing on this topic whereas I would feel

00:34:36   very differently about that if I had

00:34:37   written an article and then the

00:34:38   Wikipedia article was like quoting the

00:34:40   article that I had written it just it

00:34:42   does feel like they're very different

00:34:43   things to me Brady yeah I know I know

00:34:45   you feel that way that's fair enough

00:34:46   and also like it is also just

00:34:47   cross-promotion and I mean we often talk

00:34:50   about things and I'll say I made a video

00:34:51   about that it's completely extraneous to

00:34:55   what we're talking about so I'm guilty

00:34:56   of it too so Mia Copa you should make a

00:35:00   video about it Brady I should I haven't

00:35:02   made a video about the new iPhone or

00:35:04   read an article about it or seen one you

00:35:07   guys you have to do an unboxing really

00:35:09   do you unboxing channel yet there could

00:35:11   be more popular than all your other

00:35:12   actually I make calculator unboxings

00:35:14   we'll put a link in the show notes I

00:35:16   think you should really spin that off

00:35:17   into something else it could be a

00:35:19   full-time dad wore f-- numberphile

00:35:21   immediately is the iphone x a big deal

00:35:24   this is the one time like you're really

00:35:26   asking the wrong person Brady because

00:35:28   I didn't actually watch the keynote this

00:35:31   year I was in an extremely low Internet

00:35:35   area so I haven't actually seen the

00:35:37   presentation or anything I just read a

00:35:39   couple of those articles afterwards

00:35:40   people wrote down their thoughts to get

00:35:42   a summary of what's going on I'm not

00:35:45   saying people shouldn't write articles

00:35:46   or write down their thoughts by the way

00:35:47   like technology articles and blogs are

00:35:50   not only like good I like them and I

00:35:52   read them

00:35:53   I'm not against writing you heard here

00:35:54   first people Brady : against writing and

00:35:57   there's some good ones there are a few

00:35:59   people who we know who I think write

00:36:00   really cool tech blogs it's when

00:36:03   someone's on a podcast saying I wrote an

00:36:06   article about this Azlan okay that's

00:36:09   good but obviously to your podcast at

00:36:11   the moment so let's talk let's have a

00:36:12   little chat I feel like I've

00:36:14   misrepresented myself but anyway let's

00:36:16   move on to the new iPhone yeah but you

00:36:17   know what thank god this is a podcast

00:36:19   and people can hear that in the

00:36:20   conversation as opposed to every was

00:36:22   just transcribed and written in an

00:36:23   article then it seems like it's

00:36:24   something set in stone are confused

00:36:26   thoughts about about these matters I

00:36:28   don't know man like I'm not the person

00:36:29   here who's gonna try to sell you on an

00:36:31   iPhone X have you ordered one they're

00:36:33   not able to be ordered yet but I mean

00:36:34   yes I will order one as soon as I can

00:36:37   but I think that is also for anyone who

00:36:40   has listened to this podcast and has

00:36:42   heard both of us do our various iPhone

00:36:44   switches over the years in the past what

00:36:47   is it now four years of this design I

00:36:51   have been unhappy with and and

00:36:54   frustrated with the phones at at both

00:36:55   sizes so I am excited far less because

00:37:00   of the technology that is in the phone

00:37:02   and far more simply because oh thank god

00:37:05   it's a different size after four years

00:37:07   and maybe I'll like this size better

00:37:10   than the phones that I've been living

00:37:12   with in the past what size is this one

00:37:14   what's it massage off it's in between

00:37:16   the two sizes it's like a little bit

00:37:19   bigger than the regular iPhone and it's

00:37:22   as if that iPhone was all scream except

00:37:25   obviously for that notch at the top so

00:37:27   I'm hoping the fact that the screen size

00:37:30   is larger if not the body size is much

00:37:33   larger we'll get rid of some of my

00:37:35   typing frustrations that I've had with

00:37:36   the phone that is the reason that I'm

00:37:38   ordering it is I feel like please let me

00:37:40   like this

00:37:42   if you're looking for someone to

00:37:44   evangelize how technically impressive

00:37:47   the iPhone X is you are with the wrong

00:37:49   podcasting partner for this one I'm

00:37:51   sorry baby I cannot tell you on this

00:37:53   device I'm worried about the lack of the

00:37:55   home button because whenever I have to

00:37:57   swipe things from the bottom of my

00:37:59   iPhone as it is now I'm so hopeless at

00:38:01   that I'm like oh oh it takes me about

00:38:03   eight goes to bring up that swipey thing

00:38:05   at the bottom so if the home button is

00:38:07   anything like that functionality it's

00:38:09   bad news for me remember look Brady we

00:38:12   all know that the future is no buttons

00:38:13   all right all of the buttons go away I'm

00:38:16   sure someday we won't have volume

00:38:18   buttons on the side it'll be nothing but

00:38:20   swipe gestures all over the place that's

00:38:22   what's going to happen there you're

00:38:24   passing on the iPhone X yeah 10 would

00:38:28   you like it more if it was called iPhone

00:38:29   Pro Brady I would suddenly be tempted if

00:38:32   they cracked out the prairie I think

00:38:33   this exact same phone if they said it's

00:38:35   iPhone Pro you might feel the call of

00:38:37   Apple tugging on your wallet yeah I'd be

00:38:40   thinking oh well I'm not supposed to be

00:38:42   a professional person maybe I well

00:38:44   haven't I got a pro do you not Brady

00:38:46   literally watch videos professionally on

00:38:48   your phone is that not one of the

00:38:50   primary use cases I probably will have

00:38:52   to get the prayer mmm

00:38:54   yeah when they do that that's when

00:38:56   Apple's gonna get your money yeah did

00:38:59   you hear that Apple that's how you get a

00:39:00   Brady on the hook there's a few bucks to

00:39:02   be made over here in the UK one customer

00:39:06   waiting for the pro well we'll say I'll

00:39:08   have a look at yours when you get it and

00:39:10   decide from there I'll talk to you on

00:39:11   the podcast about it but I won't

00:39:12   actually believe what you say until

00:39:14   you've written article on your blog no

00:39:17   Brady the one topic that relates to

00:39:20   YouTube that never stops is copyright

00:39:26   copyright on YouTube is the topic that

00:39:29   never ever ends and we're talking by the

00:39:32   two shows ago we were talking about it

00:39:34   last show with regards to h3 h3 and

00:39:38   their copyright lawsuit that has gone on

00:39:40   and I thought oh we've gone through the

00:39:43   copyright topic we probably won't talk

00:39:44   about it again but just recently another

00:39:46   thing has occurred in YouTube land with

00:39:48   regards to complications over copyright

00:39:50   that I I thought was a tricky case

00:39:55   I just kind of wanted to bring up yeah

00:39:58   are you aware at all of what's been

00:40:00   going on in the world of PewDiePie and

00:40:03   video game copyright is this a story

00:40:05   that's crossed your radar what's your

00:40:07   guess I'm gonna guess no correct no idea

00:40:11   what you're talking about

00:40:12   yeah this is one of these funny little

00:40:15   moments where I feel that we do live in

00:40:18   these non-overlapping bubbles of what's

00:40:21   going on in the world do you know what

00:40:23   happened with bricks and negotiations in

00:40:24   the last couple of days I literally

00:40:26   didn't know exit negotiations I love it

00:40:29   I love it but you know all about what's

00:40:31   happening at a video game channel on

00:40:33   YouTube this is the moment where again I

00:40:35   can be very sympathetic to your position

00:40:37   because I am sitting here thinking I

00:40:40   kind of can't believe that as someone

00:40:42   who makes their living on YouTube like

00:40:44   you haven't come across this thing

00:40:45   that's going on and into some way shape

00:40:47   or form but obviously you haven't but

00:40:49   you are you would be quite right to say

00:40:51   you can't believe that is someone who

00:40:53   lives in the UK and has professionally

00:40:55   made videos about the politics of the UK

00:40:57   I have not heard anything about brexit

00:40:59   we're as bad as each other we are about

00:41:01   it is there anything I need to know

00:41:02   about brexit is there anything I should

00:41:03   worry about Brady just before Justin

00:41:06   yeah it's still a big bows up okay great

00:41:09   so I haven't met anything yet than that

00:41:10   all right well let me tell you about

00:41:12   something that really matters it's okay

00:41:14   tell me what's happening on YouTube and

00:41:16   with PewDiePie I'm gonna do a very

00:41:19   high-level overview of what's going on

00:41:22   here because in some ways I don't think

00:41:24   that the details really matter but I

00:41:25   think the broad point is more

00:41:27   interesting okay so PewDiePie the

00:41:30   largest subscribed YouTube channel at

00:41:33   the time of recordings got 50 million

00:41:35   something subscribers crazy number that

00:41:37   makes no sense

00:41:38   he's also recently gotten in to live

00:41:41   streaming so playing his games live on

00:41:44   the internet and he got himself into a

00:41:46   whole world of trouble by saying a very

00:41:49   bad word that he shouldn't have said

00:41:51   what was the word it was the N word

00:41:54   Brady oh okay right yeah that doesn't go

00:41:57   down well

00:41:57   no it doesn't go down well he said

00:41:59   nobody read but not the word nobody it

00:42:01   was even naughtier met he said it

00:42:03   naughty word but it wasn't that N word

00:42:05   that's not the word that misaeng yeah so

00:42:07   he got himself into a whole load

00:42:08   yeah so now PewDiePie has made videos of

00:42:13   a video game called

00:42:16   fire watch right in his past he's

00:42:18   recorded them they're up on his YouTube

00:42:20   channel he didn't say any naughty words

00:42:22   in those it was just very typical he's

00:42:24   recording himself playing a video game

00:42:26   and putting it up for his fans

00:42:28   yeah so then what happened was the

00:42:31   company that makes that video game

00:42:35   because of the thing that he said on his

00:42:38   livestream yeah decided to file DMCA

00:42:42   takedowns against all of his videos

00:42:45   featuring their content rah and he got a

00:42:49   copyright strike against his channel now

00:42:53   in the YouTube world getting a copyright

00:42:57   strike getting an official real strike

00:42:58   against your channel is a pretty big

00:43:00   deal because if you get three strikes

00:43:03   your channel is just totally removed

00:43:06   from YouTube all of your videos are

00:43:08   deleted the channels just gone I think

00:43:11   they elapse after a certain amount of

00:43:13   time I'm not 100% sure about that but

00:43:15   getting three copyright strikes is a

00:43:19   super big deal yeah I feel like this is

00:43:23   right in the heart of this complicated

00:43:27   topic about copyrights and also like

00:43:30   YouTube getting into the like the

00:43:33   business of controlling content on their

00:43:36   channel and it's like while PewDiePie is

00:43:40   very difficult to defend in this

00:43:42   situation I think there's something

00:43:44   really really dangerous and really

00:43:48   chilling about a company being able to

00:43:52   like selectively enforce the copyright

00:43:57   on their content based on whether or not

00:44:00   they like the creator or not

00:44:02   when PewDiePie first uploaded these

00:44:04   Firewatch videos the ones that are not

00:44:07   naughty did he have their permission or

00:44:11   had they just turned a blind eye to the

00:44:13   copyright because it was great publicity

00:44:15   from a really famous youtuber like did

00:44:18   he have permission and they're removing

00:44:20   it

00:44:21   retrospectively like what was the status

00:44:23   at the time before this n-word thing

00:44:26   happened the short answer is the company

00:44:28   that makes fire watch on their official

00:44:32   web page have an FAQ where they say you

00:44:36   can make videos about our game you can

00:44:39   stream this game and you are allowed to

00:44:41   monetize this game like go ahead go nuts

00:44:44   okay so the the developers of the game

00:44:47   did give sort of a blanket permission to

00:44:51   the world of go ahead you can record

00:44:54   this this video game and you can stream

00:44:57   it and that was just sort of given out

00:45:00   to everybody and that's part of what I

00:45:02   think is this kind of dangerous thing

00:45:05   that I really don't like YouTube going

00:45:08   along with this of him allowing the

00:45:11   company to retroactively Lee remove

00:45:14   someone's content simply because they

00:45:17   don't like that creator anymore there's

00:45:19   something about that that feels really

00:45:21   dangerous as a precedent that sets on

00:45:24   YouTube and it makes me as a sometimes

00:45:27   very rare game streamer a bit

00:45:29   uncomfortable with how that has worked

00:45:31   out I mean there's a certain

00:45:32   arbitrariness to how you can enforce

00:45:36   your own copyright like if the Daily

00:45:38   Mail pinch one of my videos I may go to

00:45:40   town and try to get money out of them

00:45:42   and kick up a fuss mm-hmm but if another

00:45:43   organization free boots me I might have

00:45:46   been a good mood one day and do nothing

00:45:48   I can see how you can be arbitrary on

00:45:50   who you prosecute for lack of a better

00:45:53   word for taking your material and

00:45:55   Firewatch could potentially be within

00:45:58   their rights if they hadn't said in the

00:46:01   past this is okay so I don't think you

00:46:05   can move the goalposts after you've done

00:46:06   that like if PewDiePie was taking a risk

00:46:09   and Firewatch had always said this is

00:46:12   our game you shouldn't be streaming it

00:46:13   and it turned a blind eye to PewDiePie

00:46:15   for years and then one day he turned

00:46:18   into a bad character and they said all

00:46:20   right now we're gonna enforce like that

00:46:23   would be a bit douchey but like it would

00:46:25   sort of seem within the rules but if

00:46:27   they have already said as you say on

00:46:29   their FAQ you can stream the game

00:46:32   and it was done in good faith I think

00:46:35   that is very unfair it seems unfair I

00:46:37   really don't like that YouTube has gone

00:46:38   along with that and has issued a

00:46:41   copyright strike against PewDiePie it

00:46:43   seems like two entities deciding that

00:46:45   that for content reasons not for the

00:46:48   like official rules reasons that they're

00:46:50   going to enforce the thing and that

00:46:52   always just kind of makes me a little

00:46:53   bit uncomfortable but it's an

00:46:55   interesting situation because Let's

00:46:58   Plays and people who record themselves

00:47:00   playing video games on the Internet

00:47:02   this is like the greatest of grey areas

00:47:06   when it comes to a question of what is

00:47:08   fair use and when we were talking about

00:47:11   with the h3h3 lawsuit and I kept saying

00:47:13   oh I think this is the bare minimum of

00:47:15   what I might consider fair use under the

00:47:17   rules as they were written the live

00:47:20   streaming stuff and the video game

00:47:21   streaming stuff is like oh my god we're

00:47:23   in this fog and there's no ability to

00:47:25   see in any direction where we're

00:47:27   actually standing and there is like this

00:47:30   I almost want to call it like a like a

00:47:33   date hunt between most video game

00:47:36   companies and video game streamers where

00:47:38   nobody seems to want to bring up any

00:47:41   kind of court case that would actually

00:47:43   resolve this like it's it is astounding

00:47:45   to me that this far into YouTube and

00:47:48   this far into game streaming as a hugely

00:47:52   popular thing there have been no court

00:47:54   cases that have set any meaningful

00:47:56   precedents on the concept of is

00:47:59   recording yourself playing a video game

00:48:01   fair use or not no companies want to

00:48:05   make this move and many many companies

00:48:08   take the the policy sort of like what

00:48:10   you were saying before of simply not

00:48:13   saying anything publicly about it it's

00:48:17   very interesting I kind of wonder if

00:48:20   this thing between PewDiePie and the

00:48:23   company that makes Firewatch might

00:48:25   actually end up becoming one of the

00:48:27   first precedent-setting court cases

00:48:30   depending on how far Firewatch wants to

00:48:31   take it but the very concept of should

00:48:35   someone recording themselves playing a

00:48:36   video game count as fair use is a thing

00:48:39   that I feel like I have no ability to

00:48:42   come to a decision on that even as

00:48:44   someone who has streamed him

00:48:46   of playing video games I will happily

00:48:48   acknowledge that that feels like it's in

00:48:49   a really big gray area about how much of

00:48:53   this content is like transformative

00:48:54   versus how much of it is just showing

00:48:58   what the game developers themselves have

00:48:59   created so gray as you know I haven't

00:49:02   been following this debate but I do know

00:49:04   that PewDiePie is not famous for being

00:49:06   silent on such matters

00:49:07   has he been kicking up a ruckus and

00:49:10   saying this is an outrage and going to

00:49:12   the mattresses he's made a few videos

00:49:13   about it but of course that's his stock

00:49:15   in trade

00:49:16   he's a controversial character and then

00:49:18   he gets to make videos about his own

00:49:20   controversies which become popular as

00:49:21   well said the guys that are still doing

00:49:23   feedback an error to the episode look

00:49:25   you know everything feeds on itself in

00:49:28   some way or another brady but yeah of

00:49:32   course he's taken the position as well

00:49:34   that it's that the copyright strike is

00:49:37   ridiculous and that he had permission

00:49:38   from from Firewatch but that's exactly

00:49:41   the position that you would expect him

00:49:42   to take I mean my initial thought like a

00:49:44   minute ago I was thinking maybe this is

00:49:46   just like for show you know like a PR

00:49:49   thing and it's just like you know that

00:49:50   when you get officially sanctioned and

00:49:52   no one's really angry anyone but you

00:49:54   said the videos have been taken down too

00:49:56   so his Firewatch videos were taken down

00:49:59   he got the DMCA copyright strike and the

00:50:01   thing that I find a little bit a little

00:50:03   bit in this like threatening kind of way

00:50:04   is that the developer of fire watch was

00:50:07   on Twitter and was calling for other

00:50:09   developers to issue copyright strikes

00:50:12   retro actively against PewDiePie and

00:50:14   it's like man you only need two other

00:50:18   people to do that and if he gets three

00:50:21   copyright strikes at once like his whole

00:50:22   channel goes yeah they're not gonna do

00:50:24   that to him you cheap won't let that

00:50:25   happen to their biggest channel well

00:50:27   this is a topic for another time but

00:50:29   let's just say I would personally

00:50:30   suspect that YouTube might not shed a

00:50:33   tear if PewDiePie of all people were no

00:50:36   longer the number one youtuber on their

00:50:38   platform I don't think YouTube would be

00:50:40   crying themselves to sleep at night

00:50:41   thinking oh cutie pie he was the one

00:50:44   that we wanted to hold up our brand to

00:50:45   the world fair enough and I think

00:50:47   YouTube would be way more happy if

00:50:49   someone like Casey Neistat became the

00:50:51   number one person and then was the

00:50:53   representative of YouTube to the world

00:50:54   well objectivity or objectivity of

00:50:58   course there's the finalist list

00:51:00   those things it's which one do they

00:51:01   think they should have represent YouTube

00:51:04   itself cave

00:51:05   Kate's famous cave yeah so great what

00:51:12   are you gonna do what does this mean for

00:51:13   CGP player whatever you've killed your

00:51:16   mom Chell my incredible gaming Chapel

00:51:18   what happens now is this gonna scare you

00:51:20   off you're gonna like a little

00:51:22   frightened rabbit are you gonna run back

00:51:24   into your hole and not make any more of

00:51:26   those truck things driving channels

00:51:29   things well luckily my CTV plays live

00:51:33   streaming channel is a trivial portion

00:51:35   of the massive empire that is gray

00:51:38   industries yeah so from a like a

00:51:39   personal perspective I don't have to

00:51:40   worry about that because it's a it's a

00:51:43   separate thing it's not connected to my

00:51:45   main industry right you've got it you've

00:51:47   got it registered like on the Isle of

00:51:49   Wight or something I guess I think

00:51:50   that's exactly right oh the bank

00:51:52   accounts are offshore yeah yeah it's in

00:51:54   a trust the Isle of Wight that's

00:51:56   actually owning a company in the Bahamas

00:51:58   right yeah we have three trustees yeah

00:52:01   it's a very secure situation so the

00:52:03   people who make Euro Truck Simulator

00:52:05   aren't gonna be able to get their hands

00:52:07   on the main channel Dulles no that's

00:52:09   they're all quarantined yes it's very

00:52:10   good but it really is like when I

00:52:13   started doing that just for fun the

00:52:15   whole copyright issue around this I

00:52:16   really do find sort of fascinating

00:52:20   because a lot of the argument for why

00:52:23   let's play video should should be fair

00:52:25   use is that the streamers will argue

00:52:27   it's a kind of performance it's like

00:52:29   well yes yeah the thing that you're

00:52:31   looking at on the screen is content

00:52:33   that's created by somebody else but

00:52:34   there is a performance that is occurring

00:52:36   on top of it look if I went out and

00:52:38   bought at a desk juggling balls and made

00:52:40   a video of me juggling added s couldn't

00:52:42   say hey those are our juggling balls

00:52:44   right you know I was just using their

00:52:46   thing from our performance right he's

00:52:48   like oh they have a copyrighted sequence

00:52:50   of colours on them or the pattern right

00:52:51   so it's like the Eiffel Tower at night

00:52:53   you know he can't you can't photograph

00:52:54   it yeah this is the argument that the

00:52:56   performance makes it transformative but

00:52:59   then of course like with all of these

00:53:00   things there is this slider that goes

00:53:02   from red letter media being totally

00:53:05   transformative down to the h3 h3 video

00:53:07   which is like minimally transformative

00:53:09   and you have stuff that's in between

00:53:10   there and Euro Truck Simulator or like

00:53:13   driving American Truck Simulator when

00:53:15   I'm doing that there are reasonably

00:53:17   large portions where I'm simply not

00:53:18   saying anything then all of a sudden we

00:53:20   get to this very strange situation where

00:53:22   it's like okay what is occurring on the

00:53:23   screen here it's like well a man is

00:53:26   driving a pretend truck on a pretend

00:53:27   Road and he's saying nothing is this

00:53:30   transformative I would say it's not

00:53:32   transformative at all but it's also just

00:53:34   a virtual representation of a real Road

00:53:37   like does anybody own the copyright to

00:53:39   this road that we're driving along all

00:53:41   not not really it's so hard to

00:53:43   understand is this fair use and I think

00:53:45   is another another example of the

00:53:48   internet really changing and distorting

00:53:51   what these laws were originally written

00:53:52   for and you end up in all sorts of

00:53:53   situations where it's hard to understand

00:53:55   how this stuff should apply and and I

00:53:58   can't come down with any clear decision

00:54:01   in my mind about should stuff like Let's

00:54:04   Plays be considered fair use or not I

00:54:07   think a lot of the companies that are

00:54:10   making games don't want to push that

00:54:12   issue either I think they're very happy

00:54:14   with this date hunt of not saying

00:54:18   anything but I think that this Firewatch

00:54:20   thing is the first little breakdown in

00:54:23   maybe this day tante can't last forever

00:54:25   and at at some point someone is going to

00:54:29   have to force the issue and the courts

00:54:31   will have to decide whether gameplay is

00:54:33   fair use or not can I just ask a quick

00:54:35   thing about the truck simulator game

00:54:37   yeah I haven't watched a lot of your

00:54:38   playing videos but I've occasionally

00:54:40   dipped in once or twice when I've seen

00:54:41   people saying you know your pause

00:54:43   playing now on Twitter mhm

00:54:44   every time I look at you playing that

00:54:46   game you seem to be crashing the truck

00:54:49   into stuff yeah but are you good at it

00:54:51   am I just happening to watch at times

00:54:53   when you're making mistakes or because

00:54:54   every time I've watched you play it

00:54:55   you're dreadful at it now I want to get

00:54:57   this on the record I'm very good at that

00:54:59   game know that the problem is that

00:55:01   you're drunk no Brady although I will

00:55:04   say if you ever want to see an actual

00:55:07   demonstration of how much alcohol

00:55:08   effects you play a truck simulator game

00:55:10   because sometimes I play the game on the

00:55:12   couch like when my wife and I are just

00:55:14   sort of watching TV and I like to have

00:55:16   it as a mindless thing to do with my

00:55:17   hands and it is very noticeable like

00:55:20   hilariously noticeable that what I would

00:55:23   consider to be a minimal amount of

00:55:25   alcohol like oh I have had a glass

00:55:27   of wine surely I don't feel like I'm

00:55:29   affected this doesn't affect me at all

00:55:30   is like truck simulator says different

00:55:32   like it's it is fascinating to say as I

00:55:34   Wow

00:55:35   I would not have guessed that my

00:55:36   reflexes were different but they sure

00:55:38   are different but now when I'm

00:55:40   live-streaming it's it's a different

00:55:41   thing simply because there's a whole

00:55:42   bunch of stuff going on and they're

00:55:44   people chatting like they're people who

00:55:45   are interacting with me and so when I

00:55:47   crash it's because people have

00:55:49   distracted me in the chat you're like

00:55:50   texting and driving that is exactly

00:55:52   what's happening when you see me

00:55:54   crashing on the Euro Truck Simulator I'm

00:55:55   not drinking it is an advertisement for

00:55:58   how bad texting and driving is because

00:56:00   that's essentially what's occurring

00:56:01   there don't text and drive kids you'll

00:56:04   crash seriously don't this it's such a

00:56:06   bad thing yeah it's it's horrific

00:56:08   I'm serious grey it's bad man I'm deadly

00:56:11   serious as well yeah I've seen a bunch

00:56:12   of studies saying that it is as bad or

00:56:14   worse than drinking a frequent topic on

00:56:17   the podcast uber I think that that is

00:56:18   one thing I will I will give drivers

00:56:20   really harsh ratings for us if they're

00:56:21   texting while driving yeah and I did it

00:56:24   recently I gave a dude one-star and

00:56:25   contacted uber about that this dude was

00:56:27   driving dangerously because he was he

00:56:29   was texting through an intersection I

00:56:31   was like okay forget it

00:56:33   I wouldn't put up with it if you were

00:56:34   drinking through this intersection so

00:56:35   I'm certainly gonna write it up if you

00:56:37   were texting through an intersection I'm

00:56:39   off a bit now gray oh really

00:56:41   what are you doing there's not lift in

00:56:43   the UK he's there now I'm walking uh

00:56:45   what are you doing I don't know yeah I

00:56:47   just got him black cabs the other day I

00:56:48   was going to install lifts I didn't know

00:56:50   I couldn't do it in the UK but I hadn't

00:56:51   actually got around to replacing ever

00:56:53   okay so you're back on uber that's what

00:56:55   you're saying well no I'm not back on it

00:56:58   yeah and I'm not gonna use it in America

00:56:59   why are you off it they didn't show me

00:57:01   the respect I deserve

00:57:02   no do I even want to know Brady what

00:57:05   happened oh it's a boring corporate

00:57:06   compensation corner okay alright yeah

00:57:08   we'll leave it believe it at that with

00:57:10   there is let's leave it for another day

00:57:11   leave it for another day I'll let you

00:57:13   know once it's resolved if it's

00:57:15   interesting I'll let you know okay for

00:57:16   now uber or on my blacklist

00:57:19   okay the breeding blacklist hmm beware

00:57:22   beware companies yeah I wanna be on that

00:57:25   hi everyone welcome to my bathroom I'm

00:57:28   just gonna be running you through a

00:57:31   Harry shave while I talk about them it's

00:57:34   some water going here

00:57:39   I've got my Harry's or weaponry ready

00:57:42   here I'm holding in my hand the handle

00:57:45   I've gone for this weighty silver one

00:57:48   you can't see it but you can hear it

00:57:49   tapping against the sink here very nice

00:57:53   looking and look is very expensive

00:57:55   although it's not and now just let me

00:57:56   put my blade onto the handle always very

00:58:00   satisfying as a new one clicks into

00:58:02   place

00:58:03   lovely Harry's is a company that's so

00:58:06   confident that you're gonna love their

00:58:07   shaving products that they'll send you a

00:58:09   free trial shave set when you go to

00:58:12   harrys.com slash H eye all you have to

00:58:16   pay for is shipping now they're all

00:58:18   about a great shave but they're also

00:58:19   about a fair price and that's why over

00:58:21   three million guys have started using

00:58:23   them the blades are made in Germany so

00:58:26   you know they're going to be made to the

00:58:28   highest quality they're going to be

00:58:29   super precise and they're also going to

00:58:32   be pretty good at taking penalty kicks

00:58:33   in soccer tournaments if my experience

00:58:35   of Germans has anything to go by let's

00:58:39   get things moving here be a cream not

00:58:44   much of an audio experience this is a

00:58:47   rubbing on my face getting things ready

00:58:51   to row here now Harry's products are all

00:58:53   backed by a 100% quality guarantee you

00:58:57   can buy replacement blades over the web

00:58:59   and they are it'll way better price than

00:59:03   comparable rivals and I better

00:59:04   concentrate here let me move the

00:59:06   microphone so you can get some shaving

00:59:08   noise listen to this quality Harry's

00:59:11   shave that's done the job nicely so

00:59:16   let's be clear on the offer here Harry's

00:59:18   comm /h I short for hello internet for a

00:59:23   free trial offer that's $13 a value for

00:59:26   free

00:59:27   when you sign up you just got to cover

00:59:29   the shipping and that sets going to

00:59:31   include a weighted economic razor handle

00:59:34   I'm holding such a handle in my

00:59:38   and at the moment just connect I'm not

00:59:45   lying

00:59:45   it's a good shape I'm literally shaving

00:59:47   right now in the set you're also gonna

00:59:50   have five precision-engineered blades

00:59:52   with lubricating strips trimmer blade

00:59:55   you get a rich lathering gel I actually

00:59:57   use the shave cream I like the hair

00:59:57   use the shave cream I like the hair

01:00:00   shave cream but the gel apparently is

01:00:02   really good too that comes in the kit

01:00:03   and you get a travel blade cover that's

01:00:06   harrys.com /h I go and have a look at

01:00:09   their website because they've got some

01:00:10   other nicer products as well including

01:00:12   sort of lotions and potions for your

01:00:14   face and I know a lot of people like

01:00:17   years ago were always complaining that

01:00:19   could only really get their hairy stuff

01:00:20   in North America but I know for a fact

01:00:23   they're shipping in the UK now so go and

01:00:25   have a look at their website and see

01:00:27   what's available there great for you

01:00:28   they also make really great gifts I'm

01:00:31   gonna finish the show even let you get

01:00:33   back on with hello Internet his Trip

01:00:36   Advisor on their blacklist no

01:00:38   TripAdvisor is not on my blacklist bit

01:00:40   as you have seen in the notes that is

01:00:42   what I would like to ask you about next

01:00:43   I was trying to do a segue their

01:00:47   breeding they took a leaf out of my book

01:00:48   back I'm proud of you learning from your

01:00:51   vice host don't say that baby it's awful

01:00:56   it's already a thing that genies out of

01:00:58   the bottle you degrade yourself when you

01:01:00   say vice host don't do it I already get

01:01:01   emails from people calling me vice ace

01:01:03   now all right what do you want to know

01:01:07   about Trip Advisor buddy so you use Trip

01:01:09   Advisor presumably like you know when

01:01:11   you're going places and and so do i it's

01:01:14   a useful resource my question is a

01:01:17   simple one

01:01:18   do you ever contribute to Trip Advisor

01:01:21   or are you like me a parasite I am NOT

01:01:27   like you a parasite yeah but it's just

01:01:31   by a technicality let me tell you a

01:01:33   little story reading please two summers

01:01:36   ago my wife and I were driving across

01:01:39   America we're going to a family reunion

01:01:41   and we wanted to get some breakfasts and

01:01:45   at that point in my life breakfast was a

01:01:47   very important meal to me at that point

01:01:49   you're like yeah I don't do breakfast

01:01:50   anymore it turns out breakfast is

01:01:52   bullshit you don't need it that's a lie

01:01:54   but two years ago gray was real grumpy

01:01:57   if he didn't get his breakfast okay so

01:02:01   my wife and I we look up on TripAdvisor

01:02:02   we're trying to find a place and we

01:02:05   eventually pick a place that looks like

01:02:07   it's nearby

01:02:08   and has a reasonable TripAdvisor

01:02:11   so we go into the restaurant hmm and you

01:02:16   know when you're with another person

01:02:19   sometimes it's it's a little bit hard to

01:02:21   judge what's going on in the other

01:02:24   person's mind and you know how when

01:02:26   you're traveling you want you have a

01:02:27   certain amount of like you want to go

01:02:28   along with things yeah but I walk

01:02:30   through the door of this restaurant and

01:02:31   I just immediately thought I don't know

01:02:34   about this I can't put my finger on what

01:02:36   it is something is amiss here and where

01:02:39   I on my own I would have turned around

01:02:41   right then but you're with someone and

01:02:43   there's like an inertia that you the two

01:02:46   of you have rolled through the door

01:02:47   together and so you just don't say

01:02:49   anything did you think it was like

01:02:51   unsafe or unhygenic or like what was the

01:02:55   feel it's hard to say what it was just a

01:02:59   little bit of something's not right okay

01:03:01   the decor in the restaurant was I would

01:03:03   say quirky but something just seemed off

01:03:06   and I couldn't place it

01:03:07   I hope this is gonna end up but from

01:03:09   dusk to dawn and it was like a vampire

01:03:11   hangout or something I'm afraid it was

01:03:12   not a vampire hangout but there was

01:03:14   nobody else in the restaurant which is

01:03:16   objective thing one yeah that's a

01:03:18   problem it's not that's not a good sign

01:03:20   hmm there's a little bit of confusion

01:03:21   the waitress eventually shows up with

01:03:24   what I presume is like the owner who's

01:03:26   sort of standing nearby by the counter

01:03:29   like I can't quite figure out what the

01:03:30   situation is we're looking at the menu

01:03:32   we order what we're gonna order and they

01:03:36   go they disappear off back into the

01:03:38   kitchen the two of them hmm and I'm

01:03:40   realizing it's super warm in this

01:03:43   restaurant like uncomfortably warm as

01:03:45   we're sitting there and then suddenly a

01:03:49   fly lands on my wife and then I noticed

01:03:53   there's some flies on the window and all

01:03:55   of a sudden your senses just tune into

01:03:57   it immediately like there's flies

01:03:59   everywhere there's a fly in her hair

01:04:02   there's flies in my hair I was like this

01:04:05   is disgusting

01:04:06   what's going on in this restaurant and

01:04:08   then as I'm like looking at my wife

01:04:11   she's looking at me and she's

01:04:13   recognizing all the Flies all of a

01:04:15   sudden and we're getting to that moment

01:04:16   of like uh-oh what have we done yeah and

01:04:19   then we hear from the kitchen the two

01:04:21   people are arguing

01:04:24   they're arguing about how the things

01:04:26   that we just ordered were supposed to be

01:04:29   made there's some kind of like great

01:04:30   disagreement occurring in the kitchen

01:04:32   yeah and so my wife and I we got up I

01:04:36   took her hand and I said we're getting

01:04:39   out of here and we essentially just ran

01:04:43   to the car and drove away there's so

01:04:45   many flies this place is so disgusting

01:04:47   there's an argument occurring in the

01:04:48   kitchen we're just getting out of here

01:04:50   they've no explanation required we're

01:04:52   just leaving that was the last time we

01:04:54   ever went to big Joe's sloppy buns

01:04:56   yeah that restaurant is the only time I

01:05:01   have left a review on TripAdvisor I gave

01:05:04   them one star and I wrote a review

01:05:07   warning everybody else away that I go so

01:05:12   that is my one and only contribution to

01:05:14   TripAdvisor

01:05:15   which is now bigs desperately sort by

01:05:19   tims across the internet aside from that

01:05:21   one incident I'm essentially a parasite

01:05:24   I have I have not reviewed anything I

01:05:26   think you're pretty much parasite and

01:05:28   the funny thing is I can't think of a

01:05:31   nice holiday that I've been on where my

01:05:34   wife and I haven't sat over like a

01:05:35   lovely meal or a cocktail saying Oh what

01:05:38   would we write on TripAdvisor about this

01:05:40   place and we go through all the

01:05:41   different things we do and like the

01:05:43   lovely review we write and we always say

01:05:45   well we must do that when we get back

01:05:46   that would be really useful so many

01:05:48   people have helped us with the reviews

01:05:49   that's right a really useful review of

01:05:51   this place you get home never do it just

01:05:54   forget about it you discuss the

01:05:56   theoretical TripAdvisor review that you

01:05:57   would learn like we don't like you know

01:05:59   craft the wording yeah you're not

01:06:01   writing an article about it now are you

01:06:03   you're just having a conversation yes

01:06:07   they're two totally different things I

01:06:09   completely understand writing an article

01:06:11   about it would be would be a much more

01:06:13   important thing to do wouldn't it I

01:06:14   don't know I feel like people have been

01:06:16   doing us a service and we can return the

01:06:18   favor cuz it's not always just like

01:06:19   praise you know oh this would be a

01:06:21   useful thing to know and that we don't

01:06:23   do it I don't think you should feel any

01:06:25   kind of guilt about this that Brady

01:06:26   because one of the ways all of these

01:06:30   kinds of things were like obviously they

01:06:31   are a useful reference

01:06:34   but there is a part of it which is that

01:06:38   if you are writing a review for

01:06:41   TripAdvisor or Yelp or any of these kind

01:06:43   of services hmm in that moment you're

01:06:46   essentially doing advertising work for

01:06:50   the place that you were visiting well I

01:06:53   don't think you were advertising big joe

01:06:55   sloppy buns when you wrote that really

01:06:57   negative review or you're anti

01:06:58   advertising you're kicking sand in their

01:07:00   faiths our read reviews where I've said

01:07:02   things like you know try to get water

01:07:05   Villa number seven because it's got the

01:07:06   best view of the sunset and stuff like

01:07:08   that like you can get useful information

01:07:10   in these things yeah but see that's a

01:07:11   different thing because I feel like if I

01:07:13   go to a place and there's this is the

01:07:15   thing this is the good thing to do I

01:07:17   feel like that's a--that's like a trade

01:07:18   secret that I want to keep for myself I

01:07:19   don't want to let people in on what the

01:07:21   secret is when they when they visit the

01:07:23   place I'm gonna keep the information to

01:07:24   myself yeah I mean that's yeah but

01:07:26   you've benefited from it when you read

01:07:28   the review in the first place yeah

01:07:30   that's a bit selfish isn't it fine

01:07:33   that's okay but that's that's where the

01:07:34   guilt comes from I don't feel any guilt

01:07:36   about that kind of thing I'm not sitting

01:07:37   here wracked with guilt and I don't like

01:07:39   you know I'm not I'm not thinking like

01:07:41   I'm the world's worst person and it's

01:07:42   fine I think TripAdvisor would be more

01:07:44   useful if more people like me wrote

01:07:48   reviews mm-hmm it's like when you're

01:07:50   really angry at uber and by the time you

01:07:52   record the podcast you've like you know

01:07:54   you've just lost the fire in your belly

01:07:56   it's the same with a holiday once you're

01:07:57   back home you've you've lost your

01:07:59   creative flame for writing a bit of

01:08:02   purple prose about how lovely the place

01:08:04   works yeah I don't feel any guilt here

01:08:06   because there's there's like what's

01:08:08   occurring here is the interaction

01:08:10   between two corporations and a while

01:08:15   TripAdvisor and and services like it

01:08:16   they're obviously useful to everybody it

01:08:19   is also totally the fact that it's

01:08:20   because of all of the user contributions

01:08:23   that TripAdvisor has any value at all

01:08:26   and so even if you don't feel like

01:08:28   you're doing advertising work for the

01:08:30   restaurant that you have just visited

01:08:32   because you're you're writing about how

01:08:34   there's flies everywhere and they argue

01:08:35   in the kitchen yeah whatever you write

01:08:38   you are still then doing a kind of

01:08:41   unpaid work to build up the value of the

01:08:44   company of TripAdvisor yeah okay but the

01:08:47   thing is

01:08:47   you're willing to extract that free

01:08:49   value you're just not willing to put any

01:08:51   back in right it's fine it's selfish but

01:08:54   it's fine and it's okay and they get

01:08:56   their value in other ways I mean they

01:08:57   are running ads and you know I'm not

01:08:59   feeling sorry for TripAdvisor here again

01:09:01   this this is a kind of company that can

01:09:05   exist very differently in the Internet

01:09:07   than traditional companies could yeah

01:09:09   and it runs a ground of some of these

01:09:11   things and don't give her a I totally

01:09:14   get what you're saying and I will be the

01:09:16   first to admit that I am like a parasite

01:09:18   on the review systems of the world like

01:09:21   I just I rarely contribute and I

01:09:23   constantly extract value hmm but I don't

01:09:27   feel bad about it because I do think

01:09:29   these companies part of the way they're

01:09:32   able to do it is that like they

01:09:33   themselves are treading on a kind of

01:09:37   social expectation among the users to

01:09:40   contribute I just can't feel that way

01:09:43   about the company where it's it's like

01:09:44   well you you company are making this

01:09:46   available to me for free and I am happy

01:09:49   to enjoy your free resource see I think

01:09:52   the difference between you and I in this

01:09:53   conversation though is that I'm not even

01:09:55   thinking about TripAdvisor as a company

01:09:57   like to me that's an abstraction I'm

01:09:59   thinking about the other holiday makers

01:10:01   and me as a holiday maker and the

01:10:03   relationship between us right I feel a

01:10:06   bit like you know if I stumbled and fell

01:10:08   down a pothole in the street hmm and

01:10:10   then just walked away quietly and didn't

01:10:12   tell anyone else that was there and the

01:10:14   next person fell on the pothole I feel

01:10:16   like oh maybe I should have told some

01:10:18   people about it I'm not thinking of

01:10:20   TripAdvisor I'm not thinking of the

01:10:21   businesses that run holidays and the

01:10:23   restaurants and the hotel's I'm thinking

01:10:24   about my fellow your fellow Internet

01:10:27   citizens yeah I totally get it and

01:10:29   actually the pothole comparison is great

01:10:30   because I think it runs parallel to what

01:10:32   I was gonna say it would be a different

01:10:34   situation

01:10:34   so the different thing with the pothole

01:10:36   is we are all members of an involuntary

01:10:41   corporation which is the municipal

01:10:43   government like we're all paying taxes

01:10:45   into it we're all here as part of

01:10:47   society like this is a coordination

01:10:49   that's occurring between the large

01:10:50   number of people and so the like

01:10:52   reporting a pothole kind of thing like

01:10:53   yeah I would totally do that I know that

01:10:55   I have done that kind of

01:10:56   something like TripAdvisor it just feels

01:10:58   different because it's a for-profit

01:11:00   entity if TripAdvisor was something kind

01:11:02   of different if it was like a

01:11:04   not-for-profit open-source collaborative

01:11:07   thing kind of like the Wikipedia is sort

01:11:10   of like I would feel more guilt about it

01:11:13   which is why like my wife and I do

01:11:16   contribute to Wikipedia because it feels

01:11:18   like it's so much more on the on the end

01:11:20   of like a social good and people have

01:11:24   tried to get distributed review systems

01:11:27   off the ground or things like

01:11:29   distributed social networks off the

01:11:31   ground they've never really taken off

01:11:33   because I think this is a space that

01:11:35   just ends up being one where commercial

01:11:37   interests will naturally dominate but

01:11:39   for me that there is a part of it that I

01:11:41   cannot ignore that it this isn't just a

01:11:45   direct interaction between me and fellow

01:11:48   citizens that there is an entity that is

01:11:51   profiting from the interaction between

01:11:53   me and fellow citizens and if it was

01:11:55   more peer-to-peer in the way that I

01:11:57   think a government interaction would be

01:11:59   or the way a different sort of system

01:12:01   would be then I would genuinely feel

01:12:03   more guilt for being a like a parasite

01:12:05   upon the system again they you just

01:12:07   can't get your brain away from the

01:12:09   company and the money I will totally

01:12:11   agree like that is a thing that is

01:12:14   unlike the owl watches over us all right

01:12:17   as we're we're contributing those

01:12:18   reviews I don't agree with you right

01:12:20   like I feel like I'm the same as you I'm

01:12:22   a parasite but I feel like that defense

01:12:24   doesn't work for me and I feel like to

01:12:27   me that's not an acceptable position

01:12:29   that you're taking like I don't care if

01:12:31   you write reviews or not but to me that

01:12:33   argument doesn't hold water as you make

01:12:35   it there but if you then said to me I

01:12:38   once wrote a review on TripAdvisor for

01:12:41   my fellow man and it was removed by

01:12:44   TripAdvisor or they edited it then I

01:12:47   would completely agree with you and

01:12:48   think I'll hang on a second this is just

01:12:50   a company this isn't between me and the

01:12:53   other holidaymakers they're editing

01:12:54   things because their customers are

01:12:56   unhappy and they're and then I would

01:12:58   totally agree with you and actually I

01:13:00   think that does happen on TripAdvisor so

01:13:02   so I kind of probably am on your side in

01:13:04   a way but the single argument that the

01:13:07   whole system was set up by a company

01:13:09   that makes money like doesn't stop you

01:13:11   taking the value from it there is also a

01:13:13   similar thing which I totally changed my

01:13:15   mind on which is when self checkout

01:13:17   machines were first introduced my

01:13:19   initial reaction long ago was this is

01:13:22   ridiculous they're having me work as an

01:13:24   unpaid employee bagging my own groceries

01:13:26   here I guess is outrageous that the

01:13:28   grocery store

01:13:29   wants me to do free work for them I will

01:13:31   do no such that and now of course as

01:13:33   Luthor's no it's like I couldn't be

01:13:35   happier to be packing my own groceries

01:13:37   yeah so I'm not perfectly consistent on

01:13:40   this issue but yeah that was a place

01:13:42   where I felt the same way I was like I

01:13:43   can't ignore the commercial interaction

01:13:45   that's that's taking place here like

01:13:46   look at you grocery store so cynically

01:13:48   saving money on wages by deferring labor

01:13:50   to the actual customers and now I'm now

01:13:52   very happy to be part of that system got

01:13:56   time for a quick paper cut blitz we

01:13:58   haven't done Brady's paper cuts for so

01:13:59   long I feel like every time we do paper

01:14:01   cuts you say we haven't done paper cuts

01:14:03   for so long but it seems like we do

01:14:05   paper cuts all the time maybe one of my

01:14:07   paper cuts is you not letting me do

01:14:08   paper cuts enough have I ever stopped

01:14:10   you from doing paper cuts Brady no never

01:14:12   no you haven't I stopped you in the Edit

01:14:14   sometimes in the actual moment have I

01:14:17   ever stopped you no I never have no you

01:14:19   just gotta make a cup of tea and let me

01:14:21   waffle for a few minutes yeah I throw

01:14:22   down a delete marker and then I come

01:14:24   back yep all right I'm gonna do a

01:14:26   lightning round okay lightning round

01:14:28   lightning round so that people won't get

01:14:30   bored one of my paper cuts is when I get

01:14:34   an email from someone usually wanting

01:14:36   some kind of commercial or work

01:14:39   interaction and they will make a really

01:14:42   big point of saying what a huge fan they

01:14:44   are of my work and they have been for a

01:14:46   really really long time to try and like

01:14:48   curry my favor when they get to what

01:14:50   they want and then I go and look at

01:14:53   their Twitter and they don't follow me

01:14:55   and there's no indication that they have

01:14:58   any idea who I am whatsoever because I

01:14:59   would do that if someone makes a big

01:15:02   enough deal about how how much they

01:15:03   personally engaged by me and how they've

01:15:06   loved my videos for so long right and

01:15:08   I'll go and look through the four or

01:15:10   five hundred people they follow on

01:15:11   Twitter and none of my Twitter's or

01:15:14   channels or anything I do is there

01:15:16   that's like a well you're not getting a

01:15:19   reply now

01:15:20   if you ever want to trick me into

01:15:22   thinking you really are a fan who wants

01:15:23   to do business with me right at least

01:15:26   follow me on Twitter a few weeks before

01:15:27   you send the email like I'm not stupid

01:15:31   uh-huh I'm gonna do my homework what if

01:15:33   they follow hundreds of thousands of

01:15:35   people on Twitter does that change this

01:15:37   situation Wow yeah do you feel less

01:15:39   special then well I can't go through and

01:15:42   check that so I don't know but sometimes

01:15:43   that make a really big deal of it you

01:15:45   can tell they've even gone and done a

01:15:46   little bit of like sneaky homework like

01:15:48   oh I loved your recent video on Grahams

01:15:51   number which is obviously they've just

01:15:53   gone and had a quick look at the channel

01:15:55   and seen the first title they could you

01:15:56   know I'm going to investigate you'd

01:15:58   further than that before I do business

01:15:59   with you and if you're not following me

01:16:01   on Twitter

01:16:02   well you've fallen at the first hurdle

01:16:04   very enough if you're not a fan and you

01:16:06   just say I want to do a deal okay

01:16:08   alright we don't have to be mutual

01:16:10   appreciation society here but don't tell

01:16:13   me you are I don't lie

01:16:15   oh were the problems that Brady has to

01:16:18   deal with as someone who gets these

01:16:20   kinds of emails they are hilarious

01:16:23   sometimes another funny when you get

01:16:25   when you do a podcast is when people who

01:16:27   say they listen to the podcast obviously

01:16:29   don't because that they're willing to

01:16:31   suggest like one of their clients as a

01:16:32   guest for your next episode on that

01:16:38   queue of guests that we've had recently

01:16:40   I've gotten that one so many times yeah

01:16:43   it's great I love the show

01:16:45   you should have my client on as your

01:16:47   nest guest it's like I've got some bad

01:16:49   news for you because it lets your

01:16:51   clients Brady I don't think it's gonna

01:16:53   be on the show I'll tell you another pro

01:16:58   tip for the people who have that spammy

01:17:00   Sayer job and I kind of feel sorry for

01:17:02   them because you know it's a pretty

01:17:03   soul-destroying thing to have to do when

01:17:05   you're like copying and pasting all the

01:17:07   stuff you're plagiarizing from the net

01:17:09   to create this impression that you know

01:17:11   who I am go through and fix your

01:17:13   formatting so it's all like the same

01:17:15   font size and color and type like the

01:17:19   same like don't make it like

01:17:20   painstakingly obvious that you have to

01:17:22   copy this from that because that's bold

01:17:24   and that's in italics and that's four

01:17:26   points bigger than the word before like

01:17:28   like if you're gonna do this cobble and

01:17:30   paste right at least make it look like

01:17:32   you wrote one coherent

01:17:34   sentence I have a unique situation that

01:17:37   occurs that is hilarious to me every

01:17:39   time where I can tell that some sort of

01:17:42   algorithm has been involved in creating

01:17:43   this business the email that's coming to

01:17:45   me because the email will be addressed

01:17:48   dear CGP grey and it's CGP like the way

01:17:52   I write it on the YouTube channel all

01:17:53   together and then gray but it's capital

01:17:57   C lowercase G and P and then capital

01:18:02   gray because like nobody would write

01:18:04   three initials together I'll cap that's

01:18:06   crazy talk like the computer just thinks

01:18:08   like the CG P must be a name so the

01:18:10   first one must be capital and then the G

01:18:12   and P must have to be lowercase because

01:18:14   they're like your name is yeah I

01:18:16   could've put grey and it's like is

01:18:19   hilarious every time is like oh okay Ike

01:18:21   I can see your inner workings here

01:18:23   algorithm like this is the first line of

01:18:25   the 10,000 emails that you have sent off

01:18:28   and you are just scraping data from

01:18:30   YouTube or Twitter and this one the way

01:18:33   I happen to format my name just doesn't

01:18:35   fit your expectations of how the forum

01:18:37   email is gonna go out all right well

01:18:40   that was supposed to be a lightning

01:18:40   papercut but we seem to have gone on a

01:18:42   bit of a rant there do we ever do any

01:18:44   topic very quickly I don't think we do

01:18:46   no it's friendly enough there's a segue

01:18:49   to my next lightning papercut is to do

01:18:50   with things being done quickly this is

01:18:52   dangerous territory because people who

01:18:55   do this are really proud of themselves

01:18:57   about doing it but my next paper cut is

01:19:00   people listening to podcasts

01:19:02   particularly our podcast at a higher

01:19:05   speed than it was recorded at this is

01:19:07   not a paper cut about people who have

01:19:09   put the feature into their app I'm also

01:19:12   talking about you know the ability to

01:19:13   remove silences and stuff like that like

01:19:15   you know there's these pradhan I've got

01:19:17   all different names and stuff and it's

01:19:18   very clever and I have no problem with

01:19:20   people putting it in their apps because

01:19:21   that's what the customers want and you

01:19:23   have to make yes but I think it's

01:19:25   counterproductive to do it and the best

01:19:27   example was in a recent episode where

01:19:29   you called for a moment silence for CGP

01:19:33   grey the lady penguin and we were both

01:19:35   silent for a few seconds and anyone

01:19:37   listening to it with the silence remover

01:19:40   just then got the start of the next

01:19:41   sentence straight away and I also think

01:19:44   like speeding things up or

01:19:46   moving pauses like just tramples all

01:19:49   over things like comic timing mm-hmm and

01:19:53   like a motion can be lost like if I say

01:19:57   something to you that you can't believe

01:19:59   because it's just another stupid analogy

01:20:01   you leave and there's like a few moments

01:20:03   of silence from you that speaks more

01:20:05   than a thousand words and yet someone

01:20:07   listening with all that stuff snipped

01:20:09   out is missing out on that they're

01:20:11   missing our art is that what is that

01:20:15   with them is so do you think that the

01:20:17   people who listen at higher speeds or

01:20:19   with silences snipped out their only

01:20:20   cheating themselves from the poor past

01:20:22   class experience I think they are I

01:20:24   think they're missing out on the true

01:20:26   human experience mm-hmm but I also know

01:20:28   the people who use these features love

01:20:31   the fact they use these features so I'm

01:20:34   not I know I'm not going to convert them

01:20:35   but it's just a mud it's an annoyance of

01:20:38   mine you know I do this right Brady yeah

01:20:40   no no yeah I listen to this very podcast

01:20:43   2x although I think that's not that's

01:20:46   not quite a fair comparison but yeah I

01:20:48   have occasionally by accident sent you

01:20:50   the 2x version you had I know you always

01:20:52   enjoy when I make that mistake but

01:20:54   that's okay you know you do what you

01:20:56   want but I think you're missing out and

01:20:58   I have seen some people who say I listen

01:21:01   to podcast X at high speed but not

01:21:03   podcast why those people okay I think

01:21:07   maybe you are using these features the

01:21:09   way they should be used maybe you know

01:21:10   some picking and choosing is good but

01:21:13   overall I don't do it myself because I

01:21:16   feel like I'm missing out on really

01:21:18   knowing cuz I I like the people whose

01:21:20   podcast I was into and I want to know

01:21:21   what they really like and I think you

01:21:23   really know what someone's like when

01:21:24   you've you hear everything about them

01:21:27   it's all about nuance yeah these things

01:21:29   are nuanced removers I know what you're

01:21:31   saying obviously I can't get entirely on

01:21:32   board because they don't do this I use

01:21:35   silence removal and on my podcast that I

01:21:39   have I will crank some podcasts up to

01:21:42   about one and a half speed which when

01:21:46   you also then add in silence removal

01:21:48   gets it very close to 1.8 or 2x but I am

01:21:52   I'm also in that category of it depends

01:21:55   on the podcast so I like I have

01:21:56   different settings for different shows

01:21:58   are there ones that you

01:22:00   we'll leave untouched cuz you want to

01:22:02   hear it you know as God intended if a

01:22:04   show is a funny show or ever like if I

01:22:06   just personally find the hosts funny I

01:22:08   do genuinely think that removing the

01:22:11   silence messes up some moments it does

01:22:16   mess up the way the timing comes across

01:22:18   but I think that like the higher speed

01:22:20   stuff is totally like I listen to a

01:22:22   bunch of shows that are sort of like

01:22:23   tech news II kind of shows yeah and

01:22:25   there I think it's way more appropriate

01:22:29   to crank up the speed a little bit on

01:22:31   that because it's it's not quite the

01:22:33   same thing it's like I want to listen to

01:22:35   a show but maybe I don't want to spend

01:22:36   an hour on it I want to spend 30 minutes

01:22:39   on I guess it says something about my

01:22:40   podcast listening to then cuz I like a

01:22:42   long podcast and like the longer the

01:22:44   better so the last thing I'd want to do

01:22:46   is like you know I don't feel like I'm

01:22:47   like number five needing input having to

01:22:50   read get everything into my brain as

01:22:51   quick as possible

01:22:52   my podcasting is like it's sort of

01:22:54   leisure time in a lot of ways I wouldn't

01:22:56   like the idea of just cramming it in as

01:22:57   fast as I can so I can get onto the next

01:22:59   one

01:22:59   it's why I like having different

01:23:00   settings on different shows and it

01:23:02   depends on what the kind of show is

01:23:05   obviously people who are listening to

01:23:07   this very show right now at 3x with what

01:23:11   the silence removed if that's the way

01:23:13   you want to do it as totally fine I'm

01:23:15   okay with that I will not look down upon

01:23:17   your choice although if you ever ever

01:23:20   meet Brady and I in person at some event

01:23:23   someday it may seem like we are the

01:23:25   slowest talkers in the world if you are

01:23:27   used to listening us at at super high

01:23:29   speed and I do see that comment very

01:23:31   often when people jump on the youtube

01:23:33   version of the show because it doesn't

01:23:35   have whatever their podcast app settings

01:23:36   are stuck at look like oh I thought the

01:23:39   two of these guys were drunken and I

01:23:40   realized oh I'm just listening to it at

01:23:42   One X speed on YouTube instead of reacts

01:23:44   like I normally do

01:23:45   so I've had my paper cuts you know that

01:23:47   means I think we need a quick episode of

01:23:49   the buzz CGP grey have you got a buzz

01:23:51   for me I don't really have a an episode

01:23:54   of the buzz because there isn't that

01:23:55   much be news grab a mic for people

01:23:57   rubbish

01:23:58   I'm trying to always tell me that

01:23:59   there's tons of B news there it's not

01:24:01   necessarily the case I'm just I'm going

01:24:04   B no don't no you don't need to go click

01:24:06   into the news tab there is a lot of B

01:24:08   news great no there's no there's no

01:24:09   penis I don't need to do that

01:24:12   I could read you seven excellent news

01:24:16   stories from the last five hours that

01:24:19   are all that B's it's not true the B

01:24:21   world is very calm

01:24:22   it's very staid but okay I just want to

01:24:26   bring your attention to the emoji pedia

01:24:30   page for the honeybee emoji I've sent

01:24:34   you the link okay in iMessage I'm

01:24:37   looking at all the pictures of the base

01:24:38   we have brought up emoji fragmentation

01:24:42   on this show yeah primarily in the

01:24:44   context of you being upset that the wolf

01:24:47   emoji no longer looks like Audrey which

01:24:49   is of course the way it should be

01:24:50   because it should look like a wolf not

01:24:52   like a little chihuahua but I've got to

01:24:54   say this page for what Abby's look like

01:24:57   so we've got all these different Bay's

01:24:59   for like Apple and Google and Microsoft

01:25:00   and Samsung and LG and Facebook and

01:25:04   Twitter and yeah I don't understand why

01:25:06   everybody has to have a totally

01:25:08   different set of emojis and these be

01:25:11   ones some of them ours are like

01:25:13   unspeakably terrible can we get our act

01:25:15   together with the different emojis can't

01:25:17   we consolidate them why do we have to

01:25:19   have these different ones why do we have

01:25:22   to have different communication between

01:25:24   people if I want to send someone a

01:25:26   picture of a bee and I think I'm sending

01:25:28   them like a cute little bee and then I

01:25:30   actually end up sending them something

01:25:31   that just looks like a bug we need to

01:25:33   consolidate these things yeah there is

01:25:36   some differences in tone that could

01:25:37   cause problems the question I have is if

01:25:40   you were in charge of emojis whose emoji

01:25:44   on this list would you use as the

01:25:46   default of bees

01:25:48   well I have an iPhone I have to say

01:25:52   personally I have always thought that

01:25:53   Apple's emojis are terrible hmm I've

01:25:56   never liked Apple going for this little

01:25:59   3d emoji space they're like too small

01:26:03   and yet too detailed I have never ever

01:26:06   liked apples emojis yeah I think for on

01:26:09   a small scale you should have a flatter

01:26:12   design for what your emojis look like

01:26:14   you've clearly thought about this loads

01:26:16   like I love how you think about this

01:26:18   stuff but don't you think that makes

01:26:19   sense

01:26:20   it does make sense yeah it does make

01:26:22   sense I agree with you I think typically

01:26:24   emojis are looked at

01:26:26   well that is changing how small we look

01:26:29   at our emojis but okay yeah like Apple

01:26:31   and begin their emojis last year and

01:26:34   they made them three times larger but

01:26:36   they're still there's still not huge

01:26:37   icons right that they're drawn with a

01:26:40   lot of detail I mean what do you think

01:26:42   of the Apple ones I don't mind Apple

01:26:44   emojis I'm not someone who would

01:26:45   necessarily favor cutesiness and Apple

01:26:48   maybe is going a little bit down the

01:26:49   cutesy path but I can see why you would

01:26:53   favor 2d but in the case of the be out

01:26:57   an eye you haven't answered my question

01:26:59   yet which one are you gonna favor of the

01:27:02   ones on the lists there cuz I have to

01:27:03   say that's a bad bunch there's nothing

01:27:06   that's really great here it's a swarm of

01:27:08   bad emojis at the top we have apple with

01:27:11   a fat B that looks like no B I have ever

01:27:14   seen yet it's still trying to be like a

01:27:16   like a drawing of a B it's like if you

01:27:19   had a yellow balloon and you drew a

01:27:20   couple of stripes on it and you said ad

01:27:22   C that's a be great you know

01:27:24   nailed it you're not gonna like me

01:27:25   saying this but that's almost the best

01:27:27   of the bunch though it almost is though

01:27:29   I agree looking down at the bottom

01:27:31   there's like emoji decks and emoji one

01:27:33   bees that are terrible looking although

01:27:36   I've never come across those things I

01:27:37   don't know what they are the emerging

01:27:39   one one is okay

01:27:41   yeah the emoji decks one I don't even

01:27:43   know what I'm moti Texas but I've got a

01:27:45   terrible emoji for a bee

01:27:46   whoever is out there using emoji decks

01:27:48   I'm sorry that that's that's what your

01:27:50   thing is I can't even like invent what

01:27:52   that is in my head what emoji Dex is

01:27:54   like from the name whatever it is the

01:27:56   representation of a bee is like a man in

01:27:58   a bee costume wearing a mask stealing

01:28:01   some honey that's honey he said okay

01:28:03   yeah boys emoji Dex

01:28:05   I do not know anyway come on pick one

01:28:09   Facebook ones all right it's ugly though

01:28:12   it's sort of 3d but not really too much

01:28:16   Brown and not enough black but like the

01:28:18   Mozilla one looks like I designed that

01:28:19   that's how bad it is the Twitter one is

01:28:22   also terrible the Microsoft one like I

01:28:25   don't know what's going on there

01:28:27   someone went crazy with the stroke tool

01:28:28   in Photoshop Microsoft is a big fan of

01:28:31   thick strokes on their emoji now

01:28:35   here's the thing I'm actually gonna have

01:28:36   to say that I would probably go with

01:28:40   Microsoft or I would go with Twitter but

01:28:44   part of that is the overall design

01:28:46   aesthetic of emojis so if you click on

01:28:50   the icon for the Microsoft B where you

01:28:54   click on the icon for the Twitter B

01:28:56   it'll bring up what all the Microsoft

01:28:58   emoji look like and what all the Twitter

01:29:00   emoji look like okay and I feel like it

01:29:03   is it is inarguable that the flat

01:29:05   designs look more consistent as a bunch

01:29:10   together than the 3d designs of emojis

01:29:13   they definitely are more consistent yes

01:29:15   yeah I really like Twitter's emojis

01:29:18   I think the Microsoft emojis are very

01:29:20   good and I think the Apple emojis are

01:29:22   terrible and I don't like them every

01:29:25   time and as my wife often points out to

01:29:28   her great frustration the Apple emojis

01:29:30   are all also really biased towards

01:29:32   everything being happy like the Apple

01:29:34   ones is hard to express a wide range of

01:29:37   negative emotions with the Apple emojis

01:29:39   it's it's like we're all locked in some

01:29:41   kind of black mirror future where smiles

01:29:43   are the things that are best for us to

01:29:45   express does your wife who she wants to

01:29:47   express a bit more negativity in her

01:29:49   life yes yes that is exactly correct

01:29:50   she's the most positive texter I've ever

01:29:53   met like she's the most positive texture

01:29:54   you ever met because she's doing it

01:29:56   through the Apple system right and so

01:29:57   it's nothing but smiley faces right

01:29:59   that's that's the range of expression

01:30:01   that she is limited to okay so I'm gonna

01:30:03   say if I had to pick a B emoji I would

01:30:06   go with Twitter or I would go with

01:30:07   Microsoft but that is in the context of

01:30:10   them looking better as a series of

01:30:15   consistent flat emojis well that wasn't

01:30:18   what I asked you for I didn't ask you

01:30:20   for like you know to appraise the whole

01:30:22   system I just wanted it to be like a

01:30:24   versus B the Google one though the

01:30:27   Google one what's going really I'm

01:30:28   trying to I'm trying to rock the whole

01:30:30   world into the way I want it to be it's

01:30:32   like Whitby emoji is it gonna be I want

01:30:34   to change all of key emojis the Google

01:30:37   one is like what were they doing like

01:30:40   because the eyes are on the same side of

01:30:43   the face as like the wings yes so it's

01:30:46   like it's heads been like

01:30:48   yanked around what do they even know how

01:30:50   B works yeah the Google B emoji is an

01:30:53   exorcist emoji right it's it's the B

01:30:56   should be looking the other way but

01:30:57   they've given it human eyes and it has

01:30:59   rotated its head 180 degrees to be

01:31:01   looking at you as you select it the

01:31:03   Samsung one is like a cute image but

01:31:06   it's not an emoji mm-hmm it's like a

01:31:08   little drawing so I'm going with

01:31:10   Microsoft I'm going with Twitter that's

01:31:12   what I'm gonna have to go with here and

01:31:13   although I generally agree with some of

01:31:15   your sentiment about the Apple emoji so

01:31:18   I'm gonna go for the Apple emoji really

01:31:19   I like that B I'd like to watch it fly

01:31:23   cuz it's kind of fat and like so it

01:31:25   looks like it would struggle to fly I'm

01:31:27   kind of rooting for him a bit like I

01:31:28   feel sad I'm sorry I can see what you

01:31:30   mean it almost looked like it's easy a

01:31:32   bit dopey this is also a case where if

01:31:34   it's going to be this detailed I feel

01:31:35   like it should be fuzzy like it like

01:31:37   bees actually are it's not enough detail

01:31:39   it just looks like a balloon

01:31:40   alright gray I'm throwing it out there I

01:31:42   want to see Tim's design a bee emoji put

01:31:47   them on the subreddit see if someone can

01:31:49   come up with a bee emoji that is worthy

01:31:52   of Grey's praise this episode of Hello

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01:33:33   show GRA just to finish up we're going

01:33:37   to quickly talk about a film which

01:33:38   obviously means there'll be a little bit

01:33:40   of spoiling us but we like to do that at

01:33:42   the end of shows right so there'll be

01:33:44   nothing else in the show except you and

01:33:47   I talking about

01:33:48   a film called the circle

01:33:52   starring Emma Watson or Hermione Granger

01:33:57   as my wife said every time she came on

01:33:59   screen for the first 10 minutes of the

01:34:00   film yeah I was gonna say what why was

01:34:02   this such a question mark at the end of

01:34:03   her name but that's but that's what it

01:34:05   was if you're trying to think of what is

01:34:06   their actual name that's the first -

01:34:08   Hermione Granger right and also starring

01:34:11   Tom Hanks and quite a few other good

01:34:13   actors starring the guy from Star Wars

01:34:15   whose name I don't know yep and I'll

01:34:17   tell you what you would be happy I went

01:34:20   into this as spoiler free as a human

01:34:23   could almost be because we were thinking

01:34:25   what film we're gonna watch tonight and

01:34:27   more so know what about that new Netflix

01:34:29   one that's got Tom Hanks and him only

01:34:32   Granger in it and I said okay that can't

01:34:35   be bad it's got Tom Hanks in oh and I

01:34:37   had no idea whatsoever what the film was

01:34:40   gonna be about no idea oh that's

01:34:42   interesting because you must have

01:34:43   forgotten that a while ago on hello

01:34:45   internets we were talking about Tom

01:34:47   Hanks in a passing way about how he

01:34:49   always plays a good guy and there were a

01:34:52   bunch of comments on that episode about

01:34:53   how oh there's a movie coming up with

01:34:55   Tom Hanks where he's going to play the

01:34:56   villain and it's called the circle well

01:34:58   we'll come to that then we'll come to

01:35:00   that issue but no I didn't remember that

01:35:02   that did pass me by Tom and even when

01:35:04   Tom Hanks was playing a bad guy he's

01:35:06   still a good guy like in that one where

01:35:09   he's like a killer for the mob or

01:35:10   whatever and he's still like a good

01:35:12   [Laughter]

01:35:13   Tom Hanks this is lovely anyway so I

01:35:17   watch this film knowing nothing and at

01:35:18   the end of it I thought I wonder what

01:35:22   gray thinks of this film so I I like

01:35:24   sent you a text saying gray you need to

01:35:26   watch this film because I think we

01:35:27   should talk about on hello Internet and

01:35:29   you told me you don't he watched it yep

01:35:31   yep I watched it a few weeks ago with my

01:35:35   wife it was a simile she was looking

01:35:37   around on the Netflix thinking who what

01:35:38   what should have watched and thought oh

01:35:40   here's the movie with Hermione Granger

01:35:41   this looks great let's watch this and I

01:35:44   was happy to go along this is a case

01:35:46   where I had actually read the book it

01:35:48   was originally a book and sometimes I

01:35:52   read a book and like I have a very hard

01:35:55   time getting into fiction I have a very

01:35:59   hard time finding fiction books that I

01:36:00   really like and there is a complaint

01:36:04   that I would say I've had more

01:36:06   frequently about fiction books that I

01:36:10   have picked up which is fiction books

01:36:13   that feel like they are begging to be

01:36:17   turned into movies like it feels like

01:36:20   less like I'm reading a book and more

01:36:23   like I'm reading a sales

01:36:25   proof-of-concept that a thing should be

01:36:28   turned into a movie yeah and like I read

01:36:31   the circle it was fine

01:36:33   but that was one thing that I felt

01:36:36   intentional or not felt very strongly in

01:36:40   that one is like I think you really want

01:36:42   this to be a movie yeah and you've

01:36:44   you've actually just written a book that

01:36:47   you can sell enough of to convince

01:36:50   someone to turn into a movie I get yeah

01:36:52   I haven't read the book obviously but I

01:36:54   have read books like that and who say I

01:36:56   understand so you watch the film but you

01:36:58   had you obviously went in with

01:36:59   considerably more knowledge then about

01:37:01   at least what the film was gonna be

01:37:02   about one could say I had a lot I had a

01:37:05   head full of spoilers about what might

01:37:07   happen in the movie unless they took a

01:37:09   dramatically different turn which they

01:37:11   mostly didn't so for people who are

01:37:13   listening who have not seen the film

01:37:16   that want to hear what we have to say

01:37:17   about it do you want to kind of just

01:37:19   like encapsulate what the films about in

01:37:21   the nuttiest of nutshells it's a movie

01:37:23   that is very much of its time right now

01:37:27   the basic plot is that Hermione Granger

01:37:30   gets hired by a company that is clearly

01:37:33   a kind of Google stroke Facebook

01:37:38   amalgamation and she is working at this

01:37:42   company and the purpose of the company

01:37:44   is to spread these these very small

01:37:48   high-resolution video cameras all over

01:37:51   the world now that's the new product

01:37:52   yeah that's the new product yeah like

01:37:54   you say there like a Facebook II social

01:37:56   media app illegally yeah it's a bit

01:37:58   unclear precisely what this company

01:38:00   called the circle does right now but

01:38:02   it's it's it's like oh there's a search

01:38:05   engine social network II kind of company

01:38:09   with lots of everything in one yeah

01:38:10   exactly yeah and the driving force of

01:38:12   the plot is that they are manufacturing

01:38:14   these video cameras that if they're

01:38:16   going to put all over the world that

01:38:18   will eventually then be able to record

01:38:20   all of the information that's occurring

01:38:22   everywhere like that it that is the

01:38:24   driving force of the plot okay and then

01:38:27   yeah and Hermione Granger away she's bit

01:38:29   of an underling at the company gets

01:38:30   heavily drawn into it all by a series of

01:38:33   coincidences and becomes a real linchpin

01:38:35   to the whole marketing campaign and she

01:38:39   also then becomes like the subject of a

01:38:40   test run with these cameras where

01:38:42   everyone in the world follows her life

01:38:44   stuff like that so gray you know early

01:38:48   on I like to get a thumbs up or down of

01:38:51   course

01:38:52   which ways the which way is the thumb

01:38:53   pointing this is one time I'm very happy

01:38:55   to just say it at the beginning because

01:38:59   I thought this movie was terrible gray

01:39:00   uh I think you are over rating it by

01:39:02   calling a terrible this film like almost

01:39:06   made me angry taking time away from I

01:39:09   don't know why I kept watching it I just

01:39:11   sort of felt like oh I just guess I have

01:39:13   to know how it ends it was very

01:39:16   interesting having read the book which

01:39:17   again I would describe as kind of a meh

01:39:19   but like fine book but it was it was so

01:39:22   interesting to have I've read that and

01:39:24   thought like oh obviously this should be

01:39:25   a movie like so many of the things that

01:39:27   are happening in this book would be much

01:39:28   better as a movie turns out not seconds

01:39:32   out you really wanted this to be a movie

01:39:34   and movies

01:39:35   and it's funny that you say that because

01:39:37   I would say that my wife and I have

01:39:40   watched a very large number of movies

01:39:42   that I would fairly described as as

01:39:43   terrible but my wife was also in the

01:39:46   kind of like angry that she had spent

01:39:48   time in her life on this film mine too

01:39:52   mine too it was the angriest I've seen

01:39:54   her for years I'm not even joking

01:39:58   she was like really mad as film for

01:40:01   being so just for being bad not because

01:40:03   it raised issues that upset her or

01:40:05   anything just like that's just the

01:40:07   badness of it like it was insulting that

01:40:10   it came into our lounge room but yeah so

01:40:12   this movie was shockingly awful and I

01:40:16   think it was also interesting that it's

01:40:17   it's movie with two pretty big stars

01:40:20   that was just yeah terrible because I

01:40:23   felt like you're like oh they've taken a

01:40:26   book that was begging to be a movie they

01:40:28   put Tom Hanks in it they have Hermione

01:40:30   Granger as the lead

01:40:32   they must be super confident about this

01:40:35   this is going to be great and it was not

01:40:37   did I read the script

01:40:38   I mean did Tom Hanks write the script

01:40:39   that's the thing I always wonder I would

01:40:42   love to know do actors know that they're

01:40:45   in a terrible movie this is a question I

01:40:47   find myself asking all the time I

01:40:50   suspect not because I think there has to

01:40:53   be so much that happens after the

01:40:56   production like a movie must depend so

01:40:59   heavily on the Edit how things turn out

01:41:02   in post-production sort of famously a

01:41:04   lot of the documentaries about Star Wars

01:41:05   say that this was the case that the

01:41:06   first cut of the movie john-boy George

01:41:08   Lucas was unwatchable and bad and it was

01:41:11   totally saved in the editing and when

01:41:14   they were filming as well I think some

01:41:15   of them thought what is this nonsense

01:41:16   what are we doing Ben Kenobi with has

01:41:19   these letters that he wrote home to

01:41:20   friends the house is terrible movie gods

01:41:24   which is hilarious it's a real I can't

01:41:26   believe I have to do this nonsense it's

01:41:28   ridiculous so III do wonder and I just

01:41:30   have to assume that you don't know as an

01:41:35   actor that you're filming a thing and

01:41:36   you just you hope it comes out well but

01:41:39   you don't know for sure if they know

01:41:40   when they watch it what do you think

01:41:42   when they set for the first viewing they

01:41:43   were like oh my god well that turn that

01:41:45   bad what do you think maybe that so

01:41:47   invest

01:41:48   they kind of can still see it through

01:41:50   rose-tinted glasses I think everybody

01:41:52   knows bad movies I think Tom Hanks was

01:41:54   probably a slinking down in his chair at

01:41:57   the premiere going like oh god this this

01:41:59   ended up being terrible yeah I think you

01:42:02   would know don't you I don't know maybe

01:42:04   you don't maybe when you're in something

01:42:06   you like you to skip like starry-eyed

01:42:07   and think oh wow look at me on the

01:42:09   screen like I'm awesome

01:42:11   but anyway if you had to just give a

01:42:15   couple of key reasons as to why it was

01:42:16   bad for the sake of having reviewed it

01:42:18   what were your main thoughts about it

01:42:20   what made it bad here is why I think

01:42:23   your wife my wife you and me don't just

01:42:28   think that the movie is bad but sort of

01:42:29   our angry at it so I have this policy

01:42:33   willing to watch movies in the house

01:42:34   which is when you start watching the

01:42:37   movie movies don't change whatever

01:42:41   happens in the first five minutes of a

01:42:43   movie that's probably what you're going

01:42:45   to get for the next 90 minutes whatever

01:42:48   the tone is like or if if the first few

01:42:51   minutes are really bad like that's not

01:42:54   going to turn around yeah some movies

01:42:57   managed to have a very clever strong

01:42:58   opening and then they kind of lose it

01:43:00   but if a thing is bad like it you are

01:43:02   you were going nowhere in this movie

01:43:05   what makes a circle kind of frustrating

01:43:07   is it feels like it it stayed at the

01:43:10   level of being like just sort of mildly

01:43:14   interesting enough that you wanted to

01:43:16   keep watching it while failing to

01:43:19   deliver on any of the satisfactions that

01:43:21   good storytelling would actually do so

01:43:24   it's like if the movie was worse we

01:43:27   would have stopped watching it sooner

01:43:28   and just been like well that's terrible

01:43:30   and turn it off but it was just at that

01:43:33   threshold of I'm still watching this but

01:43:38   it is awful it is absolutely awful but I

01:43:40   can't quite make it stop I think that's

01:43:43   why the movie is angering yeah I mean no

01:43:46   that's not my opinion but yeah why do

01:43:49   you think it was so terrible the classic

01:43:50   reason of bad storytelling is Kay like

01:43:54   the motivation of the characters

01:43:56   particularly the main character

01:43:59   so utterly baffling mm-hmm like why she

01:44:03   says the things she says and why she

01:44:05   does the things she does she just

01:44:08   changes and like one minute you think

01:44:10   like she's like me and she can see that

01:44:12   this is all wrong like she's doing these

01:44:14   look she's got this look like this seems

01:44:16   so wrong you know you think she's gonna

01:44:17   be the Crusader and then suddenly she's

01:44:20   like becomes the villain and like she's

01:44:21   saying oh yeah we need you know we need

01:44:23   to do more of this and this is really

01:44:25   good like I completely do not understand

01:44:27   her as a human being like she's so

01:44:29   poorly written that I'm not blaming Emma

01:44:33   Watson like you know she was just like

01:44:35   and she just she read the lines but like

01:44:38   the motivation of that character and all

01:44:40   the other characters is so completely

01:44:43   unrealistic and crazy and like the

01:44:46   villains like the villains of the pace

01:44:48   like who I guess is supposed to be Tom

01:44:51   Hanks and his offsider who hardly ever

01:44:54   speaks but I think we're supposed to

01:44:55   hate as some kind of villain like we

01:44:57   never know anything about them so like

01:45:00   at the end when they supposedly get

01:45:01   their comeuppance and get stitched up

01:45:03   I'm like what did they do wrong yeah

01:45:05   like in fact they were kind of nice yeah

01:45:08   like when things started going bad for

01:45:10   Emma Watson they're like you know take

01:45:11   some time off you know do whatever you

01:45:13   want they were in violence they were

01:45:15   just like guys who wanted to be

01:45:17   successful in business and thought their

01:45:19   product was pretty good so I didn't

01:45:22   dislike the villains if the hero I

01:45:24   thought was just a complete lunatic who

01:45:28   like I never knew what she was gonna do

01:45:30   because I don't know what she was but

01:45:33   also just the whole idea and the way

01:45:35   like technology and the internet and

01:45:37   social media was portrayed it was like

01:45:40   it was written by some corporate

01:45:43   executive that just learned about

01:45:44   Facebook like it felt like it was

01:45:46   written by like an old person who

01:45:48   doesn't get it it kind of had this

01:45:50   feeling of like it's about like five

01:45:53   years too late mm-hmm and all like these

01:45:56   like hmm how what thought-provoking

01:45:58   ideas you're posing about surveillance

01:46:01   and social networking and the way

01:46:03   relationships work in the online world

01:46:05   this is so fascinating these insights

01:46:07   you're putting before me it felt like

01:46:09   naive like have you got anything else to

01:46:12   say you

01:46:12   poorly executed in so many ways

01:46:14   obviously had some money and I could

01:46:16   kind of looked all right like you know

01:46:18   the sets were good and the campus where

01:46:21   it was filmed like the you know the the

01:46:22   Apple Campus Tech place was filmed

01:46:24   mm-hmm was okay you know

01:46:26   it was InFocus see the movie poster now

01:46:34   the circle all right pictures of the

01:46:37   actors it was a focus the whole art of

01:46:46   making a movie is is a thing that I find

01:46:48   kind of fascinating I'm like why is a

01:46:50   movie good why is the movie not good

01:46:52   it's often harder to articulate what

01:46:54   like why something works or it it

01:46:56   doesn't this was a movie where I felt

01:46:58   like okay your premise I am so ready to

01:47:02   get on board your premise that a global

01:47:06   surveillance society might not be an

01:47:09   unmitigated good that if we have cameras

01:47:12   that are recording everywhere in public

01:47:14   all the time and everybody is also

01:47:17   live-streaming their life all the time

01:47:19   that maybe there are some downsides it's

01:47:22   like I am so ready to get on board but

01:47:25   then I'm watching this movie where the

01:47:27   whole premise is this is a bad thing I

01:47:29   feel like you're not selling me on it

01:47:31   movie I feel unconvinced but also there

01:47:33   was no understanding how anyone was

01:47:36   motivated by anything like her her old

01:47:39   friend her old friend who's like you

01:47:41   know the guy that lives in the cabin in

01:47:42   the woods why is he so anti Internet

01:47:45   what happened to him that made him so

01:47:47   against it to a point where he like you

01:47:49   know drives off a bridge because he's

01:47:51   scared of being filmed like I don't get

01:47:53   why he was so scared of cameras like

01:47:54   your reaction made no sense to me like I

01:47:57   know it's not nice but you just

01:47:59   overreacted and the other guy you know

01:48:01   the the genius lurking in the shadows

01:48:03   ooh was he always able just to hack into

01:48:05   everyone's emails like all the bosses

01:48:07   like he does at the end like and what

01:48:09   what was he motivated by what happened

01:48:11   to him that made him so want to go off

01:48:13   grid and be so auntie his invention and

01:48:16   how did he get access to all this stuff

01:48:18   and when they announced this invention

01:48:20   and they're saying we're gonna film

01:48:22   everyone in the world 24/7 everything

01:48:24   they do

01:48:25   like that's so obviously like a

01:48:28   pantomime villain idea but no one ever

01:48:31   questioned it like it would have been a

01:48:33   bit more realistic if someone said yeah

01:48:35   I know you're gonna have some privacy

01:48:37   concerns and we understand that but

01:48:39   we've looked into it and we've got this

01:48:40   and that like that would have made it

01:48:42   realistic but it was so unrealistic that

01:48:45   everyone had just like be all gooey odd

01:48:47   and go oh what a great idea let's all

01:48:50   clap like it was like a parody of like

01:48:53   you know an apple launch event you

01:48:55   needed some kind of realism some kind of

01:48:58   questioning some kind of grittiness to

01:49:00   it like everything was just such a

01:49:03   cliche it was so cliched like I said

01:49:07   before it was so lacking in any nuance

01:49:09   that it made well didn't make it

01:49:12   unwatchable because I watched the whole

01:49:14   bloody thing but that makes it worse

01:49:17   that was the fear you couldn't turn it

01:49:19   off either I should have turned it off

01:49:22   yeah you'll never get those hours of

01:49:24   your life back but it was an

01:49:26   impressively bad movie and they said

01:49:28   things made no sense or Hermione Granger

01:49:31   most of the time I feel like she's just

01:49:33   like with the TripAdvisor stuff she's

01:49:35   like being a chump who's doing all this

01:49:36   work for the company and becoming like

01:49:38   the spokesperson of their huge products

01:49:40   you like to what benefits to her it's

01:49:43   never clear at all why she would want to

01:49:46   do this it's like it makes no sense at

01:49:48   all she's she's sitting in some board

01:49:50   meeting that's being live broadcast of

01:49:52   the world and like all these ridiculous

01:49:54   things are being said and she suddenly

01:49:56   pipes up with let's make every single

01:49:58   person in the world be a member of you

01:50:01   know our Facebook circle like and make

01:50:02   it compulsory right and like where the

01:50:05   hell did that come from

01:50:06   I didn't think even Tom Hanks was

01:50:08   thinking of that look obviously he was

01:50:11   that was supposed to be like the Senate

01:50:13   but it was like she was so nothing at

01:50:19   the end of the film do you understand

01:50:22   the end of the film it makes no sense

01:50:24   like she she brings down the supposed

01:50:27   villains who as far as I could tell have

01:50:29   done nothing wrong they've just been

01:50:31   normal company owners right with that

01:50:33   except they're trying to sell except it

01:50:35   turns out they have secret email

01:50:36   accounts so obviously that been up to

01:50:38   maybe there are two villains that I

01:50:39   don't know what they were doing and like

01:50:40   you know maybe they were putting bad

01:50:43   things in the water whatever but then

01:50:45   she says to everyone come with me like

01:50:48   you know Oh lead the way and I think I

01:50:50   don't want her leading the company she's

01:50:52   the one who's been coming up with all

01:50:53   the terrible ideas and then at the end

01:50:55   she's like being filmed and everything's

01:50:57   being filmed and it's like okay so this

01:51:00   is this confused premise of the ending

01:51:02   Hermione Granger is live-streaming her

01:51:05   entire life which is portrayed as a

01:51:08   thing which is kind of ruining her

01:51:09   entire lives ruining her family

01:51:11   relationships is ruining her personal

01:51:14   relationships but she loves it and it's

01:51:16   great and it's fantastic yes

01:51:18   she's like this is great she's rising up

01:51:20   through the company as the spokesperson

01:51:22   for how live-streaming should work and

01:51:25   the comeuppance that she gets the

01:51:28   villain Tom Hanks is by just sort of

01:51:32   tricking him onstage to agree to

01:51:35   livestream

01:51:36   his life as well but this is all just

01:51:41   part of everyone will livestream all of

01:51:44   their lives so that is the conclusion is

01:51:48   like hahaha we got what we pulled one

01:51:50   over on Tom thanks we're gonna make him

01:51:52   livestream his life but as part of just

01:51:56   making everybody live stream their light

01:51:58   it's like what's the victory here I

01:52:00   don't understand I don't understand how

01:52:02   this is supposed to be like ha ha ha

01:52:04   she's won like the music is telling me

01:52:06   that we've won but I don't understand at

01:52:09   all what's occurred here it's also again

01:52:11   so lacking in nuance like if tomorrow

01:52:14   Apple came out with this invention us

01:52:17   and everyone you know you have to wear a

01:52:19   camera so we can watch every single move

01:52:21   of your life right it would be five

01:52:23   seconds before someone said well I hope

01:52:25   Tim Cook's gonna be the first person to

01:52:27   wear one right that would take five

01:52:28   seconds like that's such an obvious

01:52:31   thing but here it was like but you never

01:52:34   saw that one coming and you've got no no

01:52:36   out Sephora or no like way to wiggle out

01:52:38   of it the CEO of the company using their

01:52:41   own products this never occurred to me

01:52:44   like if he doesn't want to wear a lot

01:52:46   surely he would have already thought

01:52:47   about this a million times and had all

01:52:49   these clever arts

01:52:50   and yes I'd like to wear the camera have

01:52:52   only Granger but for legal reasons and

01:52:54   to do with the you know share price of

01:52:57   the company or like you know I'm sure he

01:52:59   could come up with a thousand reason yes

01:53:01   not where and not just sit there like a

01:53:02   stun mullet and thing yeah oh you've got

01:53:05   me I'm pretty sure broadcasting some of

01:53:07   those secret meetings would be like an

01:53:08   SEC violation right like I think they

01:53:10   were taking about two seconds to come up

01:53:12   with legitimate reason why he couldn't

01:53:13   do and if that guy who hacked all the

01:53:15   emails has always had the ability to get

01:53:17   look cuz she goes to him doesn't she

01:53:18   that she goes to this mystery handsome

01:53:20   man who says I need you to help me like

01:53:23   she obviously just said to him that

01:53:24   night before can you go and get all the

01:53:27   bosses secret emails

01:53:28   well if he's like really worried about

01:53:31   this company anyway and he's always been

01:53:32   able to do that ah

01:53:34   so I'm sorry gray this is what bad

01:53:36   movies do to you right they they bounce

01:53:38   around in your head and and you feel

01:53:40   like you need to vent them out it's like

01:53:43   you gotta get rid of this terrible movie

01:53:44   this one upset me in a different way to

01:53:47   say the hobbit' I think the reason maybe

01:53:51   is because it's such a a black mirror

01:53:54   wannabe and black mirror is so good like

01:53:57   nerd did all this stuff so well yeah

01:54:00   it's like daytime TV black mirror I also

01:54:03   personally feel like it's a horrific ly

01:54:06   wasted premise and opportunity because I

01:54:09   genuinely think there is some

01:54:12   interesting discussion to be had about

01:54:15   these kind of giant technological

01:54:17   companies that run our lives in a in a

01:54:20   very different way from what's occurred

01:54:21   before do you not think that's been if a

01:54:23   hack made like cliche discussion though

01:54:25   I know I know what you're gonna say but

01:54:27   it's like I'm very fortunate that I've

01:54:29   had the experience of being on the

01:54:31   campuses of a bunch of these companies

01:54:32   and it's just deeply weird in a way that

01:54:37   is hard to articulate there is something

01:54:40   that is interesting there to be

01:54:42   discovered and to be explored

01:54:45   hmm I dunno what you're saying about it

01:54:47   being a hackneyed conversation about

01:54:49   like oh you know weyland-yutani is an

01:54:52   evil company that's trying to destroy

01:54:53   all of our lives but I do think that

01:54:56   there is something different in the

01:54:58   world now about really living in a place

01:55:01   where

01:55:02   a very few companies have such

01:55:05   tremendous power and and influence going

01:55:09   back to just touch very briefly on the

01:55:11   on the copyright thing but it is one of

01:55:12   the reasons why like the goings on of

01:55:16   how are people able to express

01:55:18   themselves on a place like YouTube we're

01:55:20   on Twitter it's so central to the

01:55:22   conversation because those places are so

01:55:24   incredibly important and silencing

01:55:28   people on the on these platforms is like

01:55:31   I think we're way past the point where

01:55:32   you can just say like oh oh it's just a

01:55:34   company and they can do whatever they

01:55:35   want it's like these are companies with

01:55:37   power that rivals governmental powers

01:55:40   and so I really do think like there

01:55:43   could have been a much better version of

01:55:46   this movie which which might have had

01:55:48   something to say on on these topics and

01:55:51   the setting of like in real life like

01:55:54   Facebook is such a such a surreal

01:55:57   setting for a movie to take place and

01:56:00   that there's a way to like show the

01:56:01   viewer how this place is so different

01:56:03   and I almost want to use the word like

01:56:08   cult-like then normal company

01:56:11   experiences mm-hmm but that's where the

01:56:14   the circle just failed to deliver across

01:56:17   all of these areas and so it just feels

01:56:20   like oh you wasted a great premise and

01:56:23   you wasted a great setting on a movie

01:56:26   that makes no sense which is what makes

01:56:29   it twice as infuriating as it would be

01:56:32   if it was just a bad movie if it feels

01:56:34   to me more like oh it's this could have

01:56:36   been great but it was terrible do you

01:56:39   disagree yeah okay I mean to sort of

01:56:43   slightly exaggerate what you've just

01:56:46   done it's almost like you've watched a

01:56:48   really really bad detective movie and

01:56:52   you're saying oh this could have been a

01:56:54   good detective movie it was good yeah

01:56:57   but it wasn't it was bad like yeah okay

01:57:00   I agree that you could make a really

01:57:02   good film and you're right there

01:57:03   probably hasn't been a lot of films

01:57:04   about that sort of things yeah oh yeah I

01:57:06   will complete I really I think you can

01:57:08   make a good movie about anything I find

01:57:10   myself more frustrated when

01:57:13   I feel like there's a particular setting

01:57:16   that has has been kind of wasted so if

01:57:18   you feel that there hasn't been or they

01:57:20   haven't been enough or any really good

01:57:23   movies really critiquing the culture of

01:57:25   these big mega tech companies yeah I

01:57:28   think this is this is a cinematic

01:57:30   universe that has not been portrayed in

01:57:32   a way that I feel like you know what

01:57:33   this really nails

01:57:35   what's so deeply weird about the

01:57:37   Facebook campus I feel like that is that

01:57:40   is a an area to be explored that has

01:57:42   that has not been explored properly yeah

01:57:45   fair enough fair enough

01:57:46   so you're not gonna recommend that

01:57:48   people watch the circle if they've made

01:57:49   it to the end of the part you know

01:57:50   whatever you do for the love of God go

01:57:53   and check out some objectivity get some

01:57:58   Keith watch some Keith what you cut the

01:58:02   gray videos too if you want