Roderick on the Line

Ep. 260: "My Snapchat Years"

 

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John [TS]

  hi Marilyn how's it going oh it's going [TS]

  okay [TS]

  you sound extra good today is that right [TS]

  what did you do some different uh you [TS]

  know I'm just working out all kinds of [TS]

  differences are you in the basement no [TS]

  you think you're gonna get past that [TS]

  groan buddy follow-up for you i I have I [TS]

  have now achieved a state where the [TS]

  basement is a constant sixty-five [TS]

  degrees which is very appealing on [TS]

  purpose yes well I it will never get it [TS]

  will never get nicer than that I'll take [TS]

  a 65 any day right oh god yes it's you [TS]

  know it used to be a root cellar and [TS]

  like a coal a coal hole toe hole and now [TS]

  it's you know now it's a constant [TS]

  temptation this for a long time I think [TS]

  I know what a root cellar is that's [TS]

  where you put like tubers you put up [TS]

  some tubers for winter is that what that [TS]

  means mm-hmm any other kind of things go [TS]

  you get a rutabaga I think that's that [TS]

  tuber I don't know it's it's one of [TS]

  those land vegetables yeah I mean I [TS]

  think you that's where you put your [TS]

  canning yeah put it up peaches yeah you [TS]

  put your peaches up it down in there I [TS]

  think well but maybe a root cellar is [TS]

  even even dark e'er and musty er than [TS]

  that all right I mean you throw your [TS]

  roots down in a in a in a bin right the [TS]

  roots always got a root bin I think it [TS]

  should have a bin in the cellar uh-huh [TS]

  and you don't in the ironical part is [TS]

  you don't really put them up put them [TS]

  down right but round you do a dog right [TS]

  but you put your peaches up pictures up [TS]

  roots down you put your pieces up on [TS]

  this on the shelf down in the cellar [TS]

  okay it's like the theme - it's like the [TS]

  the theme song to the yeah that was a [TS]

  Bo's a little wonderful reference I was [TS]

  about to [TS]

  potatoes turnips and carrots enough food [TS]

  supplies placed in the root cellar over [TS]

  the winter months include beets onions [TS]

  charters and jams salt meat salt turbo [TS]

  turbot turbo salt herring salt peanuts [TS]

  peanut winter squash and cabbage Oh [TS]

  single mention of a rutabaga No I see it [TS]

  has a root right in the name I think a [TS]

  rutabaga might be a vegetable capture [TS]

  I've never seen a rutabaga in use I [TS]

  think it might be a canary trap or a [TS]

  false flag when I see a rutabaga at the [TS]

  store no disrespect to it because I'm [TS]

  sure somebody is I'm sure that [TS]

  somebody's well one imagines that's [TS]

  somebody's favorite vegetable I don't [TS]

  know I wouldn't even know what part of [TS]

  it to eat it looks impregnable uh let's [TS]

  see rutabagas I feel like I went through [TS]

  a stew making phase mm-hmm and I feel [TS]

  like someone got me on a rutabaga tip [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and I think I put it in some stew I well [TS]

  it says here it's a cross between a [TS]

  cabbage and a turnip cabbage in a turn I [TS]

  don't know how you would even cross [TS]

  those things the roots yeah you just put [TS]

  a boy turnip and a girl cabbage in a [TS]

  room and get them vegetable husbandry [TS]

  you know you got to get them in the [TS]

  right state of mind I don't know much [TS]

  about husbandry it's never really [TS]

  appealed to me but you know you know [TS]

  we're too big you know meets a turnip [TS]

  come on I do I don't know it's one of [TS]

  those things we've talked about or is it [TS]

  4-h is that the one it's kind of early [TS]

  and you know and what brings people to [TS]

  want to do that especially in areas with [TS]

  that are not strictly farm areas it's [TS]

  kind of like farm cosplay but with a [TS]

  cool jacket do you go to the State Fair [TS]

  No [TS]

  let's State Fair I mean what what I can [TS]

  tell you is that we went to many many [TS]

  fairs when I lived in Florida we would [TS]

  go to regional fairs I feel like I've [TS]

  been to the State Fair [TS]

  I was I was almost killed on two [TS]

  occasions by Bob Hope at the Ohio State [TS]

  Fair when I was a child [TS]

  really yeah I was almost hit by his [TS]

  limousine a new scene Bob Hope yeah yes [TS]

  his limousine I was running where I [TS]

  shouldn't be running bad on me I almost [TS]

  got hit by a limousine limousine goes by [TS]

  and I look in the back seat and I I [TS]

  exclaimed mr. hope young people I can [TS]

  appreciate how cool arguably this [TS]

  country's best-known most popular [TS]

  comedian in his day uh yeah I mean he's [TS]

  the he's the comedian he's the earth [TS]

  he's American the original Tom Hanks you [TS]

  know what I mean oh boy he's yeah golly [TS]

  Bob Hope [TS]

  you know I saw Count Basie at Disneyland [TS]

  and I thought that I had some real [TS]

  connection to her to to the real America [TS]

  well you almost got killed by Bob Hope [TS]

  hmm two times you say yeah I'm trying to [TS]

  remember I wrote it down I haven't [TS]

  thought about in a really long time but [TS]

  yeah yeah I was at the Ohio State Fair [TS]

  now I like us I like affair my ongoing [TS]

  favorite fair in Florida which is a lot [TS]

  of F's was the Strawberry Festival in [TS]

  Plant City where they celebrated the [TS]

  harvesting of strawberries and there [TS]

  were mini strawberry related first of [TS]

  all it was a generic you know a fair you [TS]

  could see like Night Ranger or a country [TS]

  band but you also like go make your own [TS]

  strawberry shortcake and I like anything [TS]

  with strawberries that's all hmm the [TS]

  doll which one guitar bishop you could [TS]

  make your own Strawberry Shortcake doll [TS]

  like a build-a-bear type situation yeah [TS]

  yeah no I don't think it was if they did [TS]

  you know they did not have the rights [TS]

  for it it was not a building or [TS]

  situation I see I think I've just I've [TS]

  been spending a lot of time on the [TS]

  internet lately and I'm coming back in [TS]

  this whole mode of like oh yeah people [TS]

  are just making making sex dolls for [TS]

  themselves based on just whatever [TS]

  whatever they want [TS]

  now oh because I would love to hear more [TS]

  about that is this like the anime guys [TS]

  with the pillows similar kind of thing I [TS]

  think so I think the technology you know [TS]

  now that China's gotten into the Game [TS]

  Boy it's just the whole the whole [TS]

  industry is exploded is it disrupting [TS]

  John [TS]

  I imagine if you wanted a Strawberry [TS]

  Shortcake doll in that style you could [TS]

  get one pretty cheaply you could you [TS]

  could probably Amazon Prime a pretty [TS]

  generic strawberry shortcake fuck-buddy [TS]

  but if you wanted a bespoke model with [TS]

  an articulating cake or one yeah one [TS]

  that looked like one that looked like a [TS]

  me or look like like like the lady from [TS]

  lost or something like that like if you [TS]

  had a real specific idea in mind which [TS]

  how you wanted your cake to be shorted [TS]

  you could probably you know what 3d 3d [TS]

  printing faces you could put on it [TS]

  people keep telling me people in the 3d [TS]

  printing world keep telling me that 3d [TS]

  printing is not not as greatest as we [TS]

  all want it to be yet well everybody [TS]

  sure talked about it for a while well [TS]

  they sure did but I was like hey I've [TS]

  got a thing that I want 3d printed and [TS]

  the answer was no no you can't that's [TS]

  that's not you can't do that yet and I [TS]

  was like well what about this simpler [TS]

  version of that no you can't really do [TS]

  that yet either oh I see so this is one [TS]

  of those this is like there's a little [TS]

  bit of a it's a teaser 3d printing you [TS]

  know you can sit around and think it's [TS]

  kind of like we first heard about the [TS]

  Internet you say VR or yeah every every [TS]

  three to eight years we hear how VR is [TS]

  really there yeah have you done a recent [TS]

  VR tour [TS]

  John I've never done a VR hi I there I [TS]

  have a couple of people here in Seattle [TS]

  is a big VR community and I went to one [TS]

  of the VR startups actually I shop here [TS]

  physically went there went there okay [TS]

  sat down in the chair a lot of people [TS]

  there a lot of lot of lot of people with [TS]

  mustaches a lot of people with topknots [TS]

  mm-hmm looking at their computers [TS]

  beavering away and they're like sitting [TS]

  the chair are you ready for this they [TS]

  put the whole apparatus on and and then [TS]

  I went through I went through a thing [TS]

  and it felt like I was I felt like I was [TS]

  at the IMAX at the Air and Space Museum [TS]

  in 1979 it was like and now we're flying [TS]

  and now we're going over a cliff [TS]

  I bet it I bet it can be really cool I [TS]

  mean I'm excited when any kind of [TS]

  technology is moving forward even if the [TS]

  tip of the iceberg that we see is kind [TS]

  of silly because the truth is that VR is [TS]

  gonna do lots of have lots of nice [TS]

  knock-on effects like you know it will [TS]

  get more powerful you know the things [TS]

  that as a result I have no desire to do [TS]

  that with that said if I go to a Disney [TS]

  property and I go in one of those or you [TS]

  know or Universal go I'll go on a Harry [TS]

  Potter ride and I don't think like it's [TS]

  amazing how you can trick my mind into [TS]

  thinking that I'm falling and I'm a [TS]

  little bit impressed by that yeah that [TS]

  is impressive I think that the I think [TS]

  AR is where I'm I'm excited hmm but [TS]

  anything that happens in VR I just feel [TS]

  like the that the if your body isn't [TS]

  engaged in it it's always just gonna be [TS]

  a show mm-hmm [TS]

  you're just gonna put it on the show [TS]

  damn it's a demo right if you're if [TS]

  you're not if you can't touch with your [TS]

  fingers and if you're not actually [TS]

  walking in the environment then it's [TS]

  yeah you're just sitting in a chair [TS]

  watching a thing and and no matter how [TS]

  realistic it is no matter how much [TS]

  you're like I'm going through the room [TS]

  it's like no matter how much you're [TS]

  playing mist you're never gonna be it [TS]

  you're never gonna get across that [TS]

  uncanny valley it's going to be more [TS]

  virtual than reality [TS]

  yeah whereas whereas a are really [TS]

  thrills me airs you know John I got to [TS]

  tell you there's all kinds of [TS]

  applications for AR and it is existing [TS]

  on your device like theirs is pretty [TS]

  weird and pretty cool I remember the [TS]

  very first time I used something like [TS]

  that that I can remember might have been [TS]

  at max fun con where I didn't want to be [TS]

  around people for a while and I went and [TS]

  I wandered around outside the property [TS]

  and I used the various sky apps which is [TS]

  really fun when it's in your somewhere [TS]

  dark with lots of stars like it really [TS]

  really works yeah that was the first [TS]

  time another time I had this really cool [TS]

  app that pulled information from [TS]

  Wikipedia and maybe Yelp but wherever [TS]

  you were you could hold up your phone [TS]

  and it would like show you the actual [TS]

  stuff I thought that was pretty clever I [TS]

  think there's an app and as of today or [TS]

  actually as of yesterday I got this app [TS]

  called tap measure which is [TS]

  a are measuring app for your phone we [TS]

  can look point it at the four corners of [TS]

  a device of an area and scans you could [TS]

  like cool the model of your whole room [TS]

  please I hope you see where I'm going [TS]

  with this I do I don't know if VR has a [TS]

  role in John's life right now [TS]

  I think AR I could think of several ways [TS]

  AR could have a huge role in your life [TS]

  right now somebody was just telling me [TS]

  about the about the about like some kind [TS]

  of little scanner in your phone a that [TS]

  would be based around maybe like a like [TS]

  a connects style I forget what those [TS]

  were called but like three-dimensional [TS]

  yeah special camera things that you [TS]

  would be able to stand in a room and the [TS]

  thing would just do measurements of your [TS]

  body and and then just throw that to [TS]

  custom clothing makers or it's like oh [TS]

  you want to order this shirt just put [TS]

  your camera in the corner and it'll scan [TS]

  your size [TS]

  yeah like Siri will this make me look [TS]

  dumpy yeah that would be so fresh I'm [TS]

  imagining your ongoing project - Museum [TS]

  of Phi your collections mmm I could see [TS]

  you doing an inventory of your current [TS]

  extant collection and being able to [TS]

  model that in various ways and I can [TS]

  certainly see how your podcast studio of [TS]

  the future in your root cellar like [TS]

  putting that together could be really [TS]

  useful you could you could like scan the [TS]

  room and decide where you want your [TS]

  captain's console to be in everything [TS]

  mmm just saying I now that I'm no longer [TS]

  now that I no longer have a [TS]

  non-disclosure agreement with snapchat [TS]

  mm-hmm [TS]

  ty can speak I never actually had one [TS]

  will you be harassed harassed born [TS]

  snapchat yeah well I don't know what you [TS]

  can say no no you know my millennial [TS]

  girl millennium girlfriend was a [TS]

  snapchat we were NDA of admitting that [TS]

  your millennium girlfriend worked a [TS]

  snapchat right right you're out of that [TS]

  officially you can say yeah I'm you know [TS]

  like time passages whoo-hoo buy me a [TS]

  ticket on the last plane home tonight [TS]

  that's right [TS]

  and so so now when I reflect [TS]

  back on my snapchat years on my home and [TS]

  my time in the trenches there was nap [TS]

  death I you know I was in a very [TS]

  privileged position prior to the release [TS]

  of the snapchat glasses you may remember [TS]

  this was a big event mm-hmm in remember [TS]

  rare as hen's teeth very hard behind [TS]

  that's right [TS]

  that's right yeah Matt how we even sent [TS]

  me an email during the during the [TS]

  excitement is he gonna use it to open [TS]

  his garage door he said what do I have [TS]

  to do to get a pair of those glasses you [TS]

  know within that that first week of just [TS]

  like they were they were $1,500 a pair [TS]

  you know they were just going crazy you [TS]

  did you find my like a vending machine [TS]

  yeah you couldn't get him anywhere [TS]

  except these vending machines and [TS]

  snapchat would put of any machine [TS]

  somewhere and not tell anybody and then [TS]

  it was just like oh there's a vending [TS]

  machine over there and you know they had [TS]

  this whole this is guy but most [TS]

  millennium thing ever real $1500 camera [TS]

  glasses stands yeah and you could only [TS]

  buy I think you could buy two that was [TS]

  you were you could go to the machine you [TS]

  could buy two and then it was done and [TS]

  so during the run-up to the glasses [TS]

  right I mean my lady was the lawyer [TS]

  there and she she was the lawyer of the [TS]

  labs that were developing the [TS]

  technologies of the glasses and stuff [TS]

  not not app side but like real world [TS]

  side so these glasses we're all talking [TS]

  about these glasses it's all Jewish [TS]

  nobody can talk about it and little by [TS]

  little like the glasses start to what [TS]

  they are and what they're intended to do [TS]

  start to trickle to me I can sight I see [TS]

  a prototype of them I'm you know that [TS]

  like millennium girlfriend has a pair [TS]

  all of a sudden and we're playing with [TS]

  them and this is you know a long time [TS]

  before it's it can be talked about and I [TS]

  got really excited about it at the [TS]

  beginning at the with the teaser because [TS]

  I thought of course this is this is the [TS]

  beginning of real useful AR it's gonna [TS]

  be glasses where you put them on and it [TS]

  puts snapchat filters on people in real [TS]

  it was just like this is gonna be so [TS]

  killer I be thinking about stuff like [TS]

  can I like my money ever since I was a [TS]

  kid I've always thought no I think it's [TS]

  a terrible idea [TS]

  but when I was a kid I thought it'd be [TS]

  cool if we were always recording [TS]

  everything that we see and you'd go like [TS]

  oh what's that really Craig T Nelson I [TS]

  saw at the airport let me roll that back [TS]

  you know that outrunning is that way [TS]

  it's not what that person said three and [TS]

  you could go back to Google but I'm [TS]

  still like just the ability to have [TS]

  these little round glasses with a camera [TS]

  in I mean you could just you be snapping [TS]

  and shining like all the time well when [TS]

  when google glass came out my friend [TS]

  dave miner who owns that bar i've taken [TS]

  you there the five point here in seattle [TS]

  they put up a very conspicuous sign that [TS]

  said no Google glass allowed in the bar [TS]

  it was part of their overall policy to [TS]

  be like as punk as punk as possible at [TS]

  all times but that got into the funk [TS]

  rockin prohibiting things with signs and [TS]

  so but then as it got closer and closer [TS]

  rights now these these specs it was [TS]

  clear it was clear as they got closer to [TS]

  being released that they didn't do [TS]

  anything they were just they were very [TS]

  cool looking glasses I have to say [TS]

  nothing all they did was just take like [TS]

  30-second snaps and you couldn't even [TS]

  see it didn't there was no playback [TS]

  mechanism it was just a little tiny [TS]

  camera in the corner of some sunglasses [TS]

  oh it's a thin client eyeglass yeah to [TS]

  your device you got the earth it there [TS]

  that's right and then it then it's on [TS]

  your phone and then you can post it or [TS]

  whatever but it wasn't it didn't have [TS]

  any the glasses themselves did did zilch [TS]

  basically it was just like holding a [TS]

  phone up to here to the side of your [TS]

  head and and I guess it was cool if you [TS]

  wanted if you were somebody that wanted [TS]

  to snapchat yourself like skiing off a [TS]

  buffle mobile or something but otherwise [TS]

  most people just hold up their phone and [TS]

  you couldn't selfie which was the number [TS]

  one thing that made snapchat interesting [TS]

  to people so that would do some [TS]

  acrobatic glassware couldn't do it right [TS]

  you have to have your friend selfie to [TS]

  snap you and you press snap your friend [TS]

  and that's not [TS]

  how snapchat even worked it wasn't meant [TS]

  to be like that kind of thing so anyway [TS]

  there was this huge roll out and and [TS]

  millennium girlfriend and I actually [TS]

  went to New York City for the big [TS]

  rollout and there was a pop-up store [TS]

  that they built right next to Apple the [TS]

  Apple store across the street from [TS]

  Central Park and it was like all secret [TS]

  and covered in scaffolding and we went [TS]

  there the night before and it was a big [TS]

  big empty cold empty room and at the [TS]

  very end of this cold empty room was [TS]

  this little vending machine that looked [TS]

  like a Pokemon and it was a cutest [TS]

  little vending machine in the world and [TS]

  you kind of walk up to it and there's a [TS]

  computer screen on it it sees you and [TS]

  it's like hi and you're like hi and it [TS]

  says do you want these things and you're [TS]

  like I really do and then it like you [TS]

  have a little fun that fun moment with [TS]

  it and it gives you the little things [TS]

  which are beautiful and they're in a [TS]

  little case that's beautiful everything [TS]

  about it was beautiful they just didn't [TS]

  do anything and so then it was release [TS]

  day and there's this line down the block [TS]

  and like Kanye's managers there and and [TS]

  and it's just this whole big scene and [TS]

  everybody's trying to everybody's [TS]

  clapping for these things and they're on [TS]

  the internet I swear to you they were [TS]

  like $1,500 a pair and I'm getting [TS]

  emails from that how you right and left [TS]

  and I I went with my lady to the event [TS]

  and she's there kind of lawyering around [TS]

  and then someone says - oh oh oh and [TS]

  they're like tons and tons of him [TS]

  snapchat employees there and they're all [TS]

  they're all super casual but when you [TS]

  when you really know the deal like their [TS]

  t-shirt and jeans like cost $1500 each [TS]

  or whatever I mean it's like very very [TS]

  tech [TS]

  check up cool up down cool huh [TS]

  everybody's got a headset on they all [TS]

  have little hear pieces and microphones [TS]

  and the word gets to us like do you guys [TS]

  want to go in the line up to the machine [TS]

  do you guys want to get some specs [TS]

  yourself and we looked at each other and [TS]

  we were like sure you know like yeah of [TS]

  course we get it we get to go up there [TS]

  too because they were it was a embargo [TS]

  right you couldn't employees the [TS]

  snapchat did not get these things for [TS]

  free this was like sometimes he would [TS]

  drop and when I say he I mean whoever [TS]

  the kid is that runs snapchat who's like [TS]

  28 years old todd todd snap todd snap [TS]

  right the todd snap of the of the east [TS]

  coast naps he would put these little [TS]

  snapchat machines like in the Mojave [TS]

  Desert or he'd drop one into the Amazon [TS]

  it was like what are you gonna do now [TS]

  there's there these are available but [TS]

  only at this thing that's like up the [TS]

  Amazon River Todd understands scarcity [TS]

  and welcome to the machine and like all [TS]

  eyes are on us right people have been [TS]

  waiting all day to get in this and we're [TS]

  like we've cut ahead in the line and [TS]

  it's cold warehouse and people are [TS]

  standing on looking at us and we walked [TS]

  up to the machine and big big [TS]

  peanutbutter jars full of quarters [TS]

  but we walk up when we're looking at it [TS]

  we're talking to the machine machines [TS]

  like hey you know what's up and we're [TS]

  like oh man you know we can pick a [TS]

  couple of different colors and we have [TS]

  some decisions to make like which colors [TS]

  do we want or and she and I are looking [TS]

  at each other and we're like ah well we [TS]

  should get some for this person and that [TS]

  person and and we both kind of just [TS]

  arrived at this moment like I don't I [TS]

  don't really want one of these to you [TS]

  know not interrupt but this is after [TS]

  having played with the prototypes and [TS]

  the emerging you know already had [TS]

  experience with these things as it was [TS]

  getting prototyped and in the like three [TS]

  days leading up to the release of the [TS]

  thing we had been walking around [TS]

  Manhattan wearing them okay almost like [TS]

  you got like a demo from Apple like you [TS]

  got this unit to try out but it wasn't [TS]

  gonna be yours to keep [TS]

  yeah and it was it was like you know [TS]

  we'd walk a we'd walk around with these [TS]

  things on until we saw somebody looking [TS]

  at us like some young person who was [TS]

  like oh my god are those and then we [TS]

  would quickly take them off and like run [TS]

  away like run down the steps of the [TS]

  subway to like because we were the [TS]

  Beatles in 64 mm-hmm [TS]

  you'd be set upon by top nuts that's [TS]

  right and we ended up not we ended up [TS]

  like standing there and basically the [TS]

  only thing we could think of is well we [TS]

  could really we could if we if we bought [TS]

  a bunch of these we could go turn them [TS]

  on the internet real fast and it was [TS]

  like well yeah that's not really who we [TS]

  are either so so that was an example of [TS]

  a tech moment in recent days where I [TS]

  felt like super excited about what a [TS]

  thing could be and then as the thing got [TS]

  closer and closer to real it was it was [TS]

  clearer and clearer this is not gonna be [TS]

  this isn't gonna be cool at all this is [TS]

  just gonna be a this is like us this is [TS]

  a thing that is going to lay the [TS]

  groundwork for someone else to come [TS]

  along yeah and do the thing which we all [TS]

  know is coming which is to make a Google [TS]

  glass that looks cool [TS]

  like from what Google glass is that it [TS]

  was a good idea that wasn't very [TS]

  functional yet Turkey and a little bit [TS]

  of its time right [TS]

  the thing about snap glass was they [TS]

  looked SuperDuper cool and did zilch now [TS]

  we're still waiting for someone to come [TS]

  out with a with a glasses that looks [TS]

  cool that can also do things and and the [TS]

  day it happens man [TS]

  somebody's gonna somebody's gonna get to [TS]

  be a rich person they're gonna get to [TS]

  put their vending machine in the Amazon [TS]

  mm-hm [TS]

  I got a lot of thoughts on that are you [TS]

  ready I mean are you ready not that [TS]

  interesting are you ready there's a [TS]

  couple things with that I mean you know [TS]

  any time some new thing comes along and [TS]

  I haven't prepared anything for this but [TS]

  I'm thinking about like how like for [TS]

  example for a long time a lot of people [TS]

  have said I really hope Apple makes a [TS]

  real like not just Apple TV the set-top [TS]

  device but I really hope Apple makes a [TS]

  TV and like I don't I'm on the infinite [TS]

  timescale as John siracusa says yeah [TS]

  sure that could happen but like really [TS]

  do you really want that like I want [TS]

  fewer things that have to be this one [TS]

  way I mean think about the way that your [TS]

  phone went from being something that was [TS]

  a flip phone that had phone numbers and [TS]

  the game snake on it to being something [TS]

  where you could put your own put apps on [TS]

  there that did lots of stuff and now it [TS]

  became not a dumb device that's a very [TS]

  smart device but the smartness of the [TS]

  device came out of what you were able to [TS]

  put on this really top-notch thing that [TS]

  you were was a pleasure to use even [TS]

  without apps the problem is that would [TS]

  you ever just buy those round glasses [TS]

  with a little camera on it no I mean [TS]

  like which what you want is you want [TS]

  something bigger out of that so I mean [TS]

  the the real real technology it seems [TS]

  like it's gonna be more like a sci-fi [TS]

  contact lens type situation where you [TS]

  take whatever glasses you already have a [TS]

  fix this almost impossibly tiny dingus [TS]

  to it and get all of the functionality [TS]

  out of that without needing to have [TS]

  dorky glasses that have a camera built [TS]

  into them I know that's very you know [TS]

  future stuff but that's that's when [TS]

  you'll know it's arrived I mean you have [TS]

  to go through these stages of [TS]

  awkwardness you have to learn what [TS]

  doesn't work you have to learn you know [TS]

  just [TS]

  just the component parts get cheaper or [TS]

  more powerful all that changes I don't [TS]

  know I'm just I'm always skeptical with [TS]

  the first version of anything not [TS]

  because I think it's a bad idea but [TS]

  because like just what you described [TS]

  which is there's so much stuff out there [TS]

  I'm excited about it arrives and it's [TS]

  fun for 90 minutes and you know this is [TS]

  this is a gizmo this is a gadget it's a [TS]

  fun thing but like this is not gonna be [TS]

  part of my life yet you were an early [TS]

  adopter of the Apple watch Amira correct [TS]

  early ish [TS]

  I'm trying to think of what I was a [TS]

  really early adopter of podcasts [TS]

  probably but yeah as far as technology [TS]

  you were early on Twitter ly on Twitter [TS]

  but as far as like the hardware stuff [TS]

  okay look at it this way talk about [TS]

  watches I've had like I don't wear [TS]

  watches alright but I got like a sleep [TS]

  watch where of course I'm obsessed with [TS]

  my sleep and have another friend of mine [TS]

  who was also obsessed with this sleep [TS]

  talked about this watch he can get and [TS]

  it was so dorky I mean it look it looked [TS]

  like now I got not even as cool as a [TS]

  dive watch but it was like having like [TS]

  at the box from an engagement ring on [TS]

  your wrist all the time was just this [TS]

  huge ungainly thing and then when you [TS]

  were when you woke up in the morning he [TS]

  said I've got sleeping then you would go [TS]

  and attach it via USB to your computer [TS]

  and it would suck down that information [TS]

  into a terrible app and like okay that's [TS]

  it you know it was like a Palm Pilot for [TS]

  sleep in some ways whereas now today I [TS]

  have a Fitbit that automatically detects [TS]

  when I go to sleep it automatically yeah [TS]

  yeah and no one's talking about my sleep [TS]

  at some point but ya know it does all [TS]

  that automatically now and it's it's [TS]

  it's it's fine [TS]

  early adaptors of stuff I've bought a [TS]

  lot of digital cameras over time yeah [TS]

  yeah I love you know I remember yeah [TS]

  when I first met you it was kind of like [TS]

  when I was really getting into this [TS]

  whole the whole stack of like digital [TS]

  camera plus flicker as a thing and I [TS]

  really that was in Flickr was a really [TS]

  fun community and a great app a great [TS]

  site and so that was a nice thing you [TS]

  were an early adopter of LiveJournal I [TS]

  was I loved LiveJournal yeah but I'd [TS]

  look at it's funny now I look at photos [TS]

  even of like around the time most [TS]

  certainly stuff I took on my first [TS]

  digital camera in 1999 is Halle Larry [TS]

  yes like pictures of my now wife and me [TS]

  around the time I first got a digital [TS]

  camera [TS]

  and if they're just they're just like a [TS]

  colorful smudge it's it's so weird I [TS]

  mean and you know this there's a [TS]

  services that'll like seho you know [TS]

  here's photos you took this many years [TS]

  ago and even photos taken during my [TS]

  daughter's lifetime I can't believe the [TS]

  difference in quality I'm not sure where [TS]

  I'm going with this I haven't been an [TS]

  early adopter of that that many things [TS]

  you did so many great Charles Peterson [TS]

  style camera effects with your digital [TS]

  Rockefeller filters long before filters [TS]

  existed I know I have some great photos [TS]

  there's a picture of me with some [TS]

  chopsticks in San Francisco holding up [TS]

  some kind of beam and you have digitally [TS]

  smeared it with light and it's like so [TS]

  cool or there's a picture of Madeline [TS]

  and me talking at pictures of your mom [TS]

  that way it was when you guys were doing [TS]

  your little inside Seattle mini tour for [TS]

  probably putting the days to bed and we [TS]

  all in Josh and Emily know some of your [TS]

  dad high-quality hang time with your dad [TS]

  at I think a Death Cab show you guys [TS]

  don't realize that that the first [TS]

  contact I had with you was contacted I [TS]

  don't think you were I I'm not a hundred [TS]

  percent sure that you even were aware of [TS]

  it was I mean I know you were aware of [TS]

  it but I don't think when we actually [TS]

  met in person that we made the [TS]

  connection right away which was that a [TS]

  kid came up to me in Boston stocking no [TS]

  he said hold this bag of booty Dan that [TS]

  would be my friend Dan he put some booty [TS]

  in your hand and we took a photo yeah [TS]

  little Dan in Boston who was a sweet guy [TS]

  and he would come in at the time and now [TS]

  he's a big boy yeah he was he was little [TS]

  then and he was one of the he was one of [TS]

  the mafia of indie rockers that would [TS]

  come to to all indie rock shows yes but [TS]

  he was like put this hold this [TS]

  Pirate's Booty I want to take a picture [TS]

  for you for a friend of mine in San [TS]

  Francisco has a blog of rock musicians [TS]

  holding piracy serves you had short hair [TS]

  and no beard at the time look I looked [TS]

  like I was 17 yeah and I'm like scallop [TS]

  I look like a scallop and I'm holding [TS]

  this pirates booty with this big dumb [TS]

  smile of like okay because that was what [TS]

  the internet was to me at the time it [TS]

  was just like idea what the yeah I was [TS]

  like okay so a guy in San Francisco [TS]

  Boston our friends first of all and you [TS]

  send him these pictures and he puts them [TS]

  on the Internet okay and so I see that [TS]

  picture pop up for once one I'm like oh [TS]

  yeah that was really like I honestly did [TS]

  think that the internet was a was just [TS]

  some kind of like a message board for [TS]

  nerds sharing this type of thing and [TS]

  then when I met you which wasn't that [TS]

  much longer some I remember having a [TS]

  conversation where you were like oh yeah [TS]

  you're in the Pirate's Booty this and I [TS]

  was like that's you here we got David [TS]

  Cross we got Mac from Superchunk we got [TS]

  my dog let's see I think Matthew cause [TS]

  is in here somewhere [TS]

  sure I'm sure all of the extant long [TS]

  winters at the time are in here my [TS]

  friend Matt the surfer oh yeah these are [TS]

  good these are good good photos our is [TS]

  Flickr still available to people can [TS]

  people stay dude yeah I mean what [TS]

  happened why didn't they [TS]

  why didn't they become the future it's a [TS]

  long story I mean I think the the [TS]

  shortage all there's so many cute [TS]

  pictures with dogs - these are so cute [TS]

  I'll see if I can find yours in here [TS]

  well you know they got bought up by the [TS]

  Yahoo oh look [TS]

  oh it's Jay from Sloan and there's Matt [TS]

  from orange er there's Chris from Sloan [TS]

  this is good these are good photos [TS]

  property look I should close this Oh [TS]

  somebody put it in Mayor Fiorello statue [TS]

  hands look at that you know I think I [TS]

  bought by Yahoo and everything was fine [TS]

  for a while and then they got kind of [TS]

  under indie resourced and [TS]

  when actually visited with did a little [TS]

  mini talk with the Flickr group after [TS]

  the acquisition and they were still like [TS]

  so game and they were trying so hard but [TS]

  there's no wood behind the arrow you [TS]

  know what's your part of the the big [TS]

  company it's it's hard and it's it sucks [TS]

  cuz it was such a great app it was so [TS]

  fun to use and it really was like a [TS]

  little community like it was one of [TS]

  those rare things where like at the [TS]

  beginning this is so fucking boring at [TS]

  the beginning of that kind of exciting [TS]

  web 2.0 era there was like all these [TS]

  great little things that people would [TS]

  get on and it was actually useful and [TS]

  actually fun and he actually would meet [TS]

  people through it you know like Mike [TS]

  livejournal which is a very web 1.0 but [TS]

  I'll find that photo for you it's cut [TS]

  beer I got to close that tab though cuz [TS]

  I'm looking all these old pictures and [TS]

  boy the photos are terrible cameras used [TS]

  to be bad yeah yeah yeah they were [TS]

  terrible they were terrible terrible [TS]

  terrible yeah the first digital camera I [TS]

  ever saw was at a restaurant in Seattle [TS]

  where I used to go to get late-night [TS]

  stroganoff and this was during that [TS]

  phase where you know when I was a little [TS]

  kid when I was a kid I loved stroganoff [TS]

  because stroganoff was made with [TS]

  hamburger and cream of mushroom soup [TS]

  that was back when America understood [TS]

  how to make garbage food for kids [TS]

  Campbell Soup Company they really got [TS]

  behind that they said look there's stuff [TS]

  you could do with our soup that you have [TS]

  not even thought about yet yeah throw [TS]

  some hamburger in it and then put it [TS]

  over noodles now where are we [TS]

  yes we're somewhere we're somewhere [TS]

  further down the road better well so I [TS]

  started going to restaurants at that at [TS]

  that a magical age when I could suddenly [TS]

  afford to buy not just tacos grant [TS]

  because I had a job and I could go to [TS]

  places in the 11 o'clock at night that [TS]

  were open and I could order things that [TS]

  I wanted and I saw stroganoff on the [TS]

  menu and I was like ambrosia stroganoff [TS]

  and it showed up and it was flank steak [TS]

  and onions cooked and put over noodles [TS]

  huh and here's the thing that you don't [TS]

  want which is a long cooked onion over a [TS]

  plate of noodles because a onion a [TS]

  cooked onion looks like a noodle I don't [TS]

  think that's anybody's favorite food no [TS]

  no and it was there it was an early [TS]

  experience of the over fanciful of [TS]

  things and I realized that Oh strong [TS]

  enough I guess this is how well [TS]

  originally and maybe the hamburger [TS]

  version was an abomination but this is [TS]

  way worse and but I loved stroganoff I [TS]

  thought and so I spent years eating [TS]

  flank steak stroganoff but dreaming of [TS]

  hamburger stroganoff and now I'm finally [TS]

  at the age where I can just go back and [TS]

  eat bean casserole and hamburger [TS]

  stroganoff and nobody can tell me [TS]

  different uh-huh [TS]

  it's like I can I can have cafeteria [TS]

  food for the rest of my life and people [TS]

  are people yell at me they yell at me [TS]

  with their eyes I was at a party the [TS]

  other day and I was like so I get up in [TS]

  the morning oh they were like tell me [TS]

  about how do you do a podcast and I said [TS]

  well what I do is I get up in the [TS]

  morning i microwave a cup of coffee and [TS]

  I go talk to my friends and they were [TS]

  like it was a it was a husband and wife [TS]

  and they both like took a small step [TS]

  back and we're like microwave your [TS]

  coffee I was like oh don't get me [TS]

  started there we go i microwave my [TS]

  coffee I have a little I've been I [TS]

  microwave some hamburger stroganoff [TS]

  mm-hmm I sit and sit on the front seat [TS]

  of my dad's car which is like a couch [TS]

  sigh mm-hmm go to the State Fair [TS]

  you know borders I blame the internet oh [TS]

  as with so many things I blame the [TS]

  internet I was thinking about this today [TS]

  and it lots of people lots of old men [TS]

  have talked about this you kind of [TS]

  there's a part of you that pines for a [TS]

  time when you could be at a party or a [TS]

  dinner or waiting for a bus and have an [TS]

  argument not an argument but a you know [TS]

  an argument with somebody about what the [TS]

  same thing existed no no yeah yeah and [TS]

  and there was not really a way to [TS]

  resolve it it's like well you're not [TS]

  gonna get on a bus and go to the library [TS]

  and go to famous firsts look you're not [TS]

  gonna go like looking at encyclopedia [TS]

  you can't cuz you got to go on your [TS]

  goddamn bus and like this is why this is [TS]

  I'm sorry to interrupt this is why the [TS]

  Guinness Book of World Records existence [TS]

  no I know Robert Doyle Hughes but go on [TS]

  and now today you can like before [TS]

  somebody's done having their out of [TS]

  nowhere reckon about something somebody [TS]

  else has already looked it up and you [TS]

  can say no no no no no you know but like [TS]

  the other side of that is back in the [TS]

  day you could also get a bike a party [TS]

  from a bunch of people who thought that [TS]

  no you're doing stroganoff wrong so I [TS]

  guess now you you know as the aggrieved [TS]

  party you could [TS]

  pull up your phone and say no no there [TS]

  are many kinds of strokes and struggles [TS]

  off like I can do this anyway this is [TS]

  this is my house it's a land of [TS]

  contrasts but I do kind of Miss the the [TS]

  unknowability of things yeah yeah well I [TS]

  do too but I had a I had a interesting [TS]

  insight not very long ago which was that [TS]

  my dad being the greatest generation [TS]

  sons ever ever of all time born in 1921 [TS]

  he and his cohort which includes Sammy [TS]

  Davis jr. well let's can enjoy that and [TS]

  John F Kennedy what about Johnny Carson [TS]

  we be part of that cohort Johnny Carson [TS]

  absolutely part of that cohort they [TS]

  continued to be the prime movers of the [TS]

  culture I would say all the way through [TS]

  the Beatles all the way until about well [TS]

  until about 1968 and we like to look [TS]

  back and think oh you know from the [TS]

  Beatles on it was the youth or even from [TS]

  Elvis on it was the youth of America and [TS]

  rock-and-roll but those people were just [TS]

  children in terms of the culture who was [TS]

  really driving the cultural the culture [TS]

  and it was only in about the late 60s [TS]

  where the were kids in college and their [TS]

  protests and the [TS]

  you know and the fact that that the the [TS]

  liberal dream of my dad's generation [TS]

  which was Kennedy Martin Luther King LBJ [TS]

  all of that stuff all everybody was [TS]

  killed basically and then it right about [TS]

  the late 60s right about 1970 the [TS]

  Greatest Generation just lost the just [TS]

  steering wheel got taken from them and [TS]

  my dad was you know an absolute like as [TS]

  far left as you could be but it took him [TS]

  several years to get to an understanding [TS]

  that you could protest against the the [TS]

  army being in Vietnam he was just he it [TS]

  had never occurred to anybody of his [TS]

  generation to be against the way we see [TS]

  played out in episode 9 I believe it is [TS]

  of the the Vietnam War series that I've [TS]

  now watched twice where like it was it [TS]

  was pretty awkward and pretty weird [TS]

  especially after the Veterans Against [TS]

  the War March when things got further [TS]

  radicalized and they found themselves [TS]

  that they were that even though the tide [TS]

  of opinion across the nation was turning [TS]

  against the war now they were like [TS]

  radicalizing everybody by saying oh no [TS]

  but you're doing this protest wrong like [TS]

  it was it must have been hard to know [TS]

  like what kind of footing to find at [TS]

  that time well my mom was against the [TS]

  war from the very beginning and it was a [TS]

  contention between it was a contention [TS]

  within their marriage but you know they [TS]

  were like that was the way liberals [TS]

  words the way liberals still are right [TS]

  she was like against the war and dad was [TS]

  like he can't be against the war it's [TS]

  the United States of America mm-hmm [TS]

  but you know my dad's first wife this is [TS]

  a little-known story in my family my [TS]

  dad's first wife who is the mother of my [TS]

  older brothers and sister at one point [TS]

  my dad was running for like a major [TS]

  position in the Washington State [TS]

  Democratic Party and his wife Jean [TS]

  decided to run against him forgotten [TS]

  this is good if you can imagine what it [TS]

  was like around the dinner table between [TS]

  those was he already declared and [TS]

  running and then he was running and then [TS]

  she was like I don't think so and threw [TS]

  her hat in the ring and this was like [TS]

  what this was this was how well their [TS]

  marriage didn't work out it happens but [TS]

  they were married for eight years or [TS]

  something eight nine years that's that's [TS]

  not nothing [TS]

  not nothing considering that she's [TS]

  running against you in you know Chia and [TS]

  she ran it she ran at him from the left [TS]

  to I mean he was the he thought he was a [TS]

  wall he didn't see that coming oh no you [TS]

  never see it you never see it coming [TS]

  when they run at you from the left not [TS]

  when you think you're a good liberal but [TS]

  one of the things that that one of the [TS]

  insights that I had was in 1968 my dad [TS]

  was 47 right so 1970 he was my age 49 [TS]

  oh my god and that was the moment that [TS]

  he and his friends finally just the [TS]

  culture just went past them and from [TS]

  that point on the be the the baby [TS]

  boomers were determining what the what [TS]

  the dialectic was and the the greatest [TS]

  generation just gradually had to cede [TS]

  that they were no longer I mean they [TS]

  could you could get hip but you no [TS]

  longer were really laying it out there [TS]

  and it seems like like I guess this [TS]

  happens a lot but it was so so clear in [TS]

  such stark relief then like you like any [TS]

  American you still get a vote on what [TS]

  this stuff is but you don't have this [TS]

  veto power or like utter primacy of [TS]

  opinion anymore that like there's a lot [TS]

  of people that don't aren't going to [TS]

  automatically agree with you because [TS]

  you're from the greatest generation [TS]

  right are you because you're the dads or [TS]

  the moms right and Carson retained his [TS]

  cultural presence but but you see him [TS]

  even turn throughout the 70s into [TS]

  somebody that when Dean Martin was on [TS]

  the show Carson was real comfortable and [TS]

  then he would have young people on and [TS]

  just sort of be like so what are you [TS]

  folks all you know what are you kids [TS]

  doing today it wasn't so far off Tiny [TS]

  Tim I mean he's a little bit like you're [TS]

  having these people on as a curiosity [TS]

  yeah right and and Dick Cavett was more [TS]

  you know was more on the street [TS]

  although whatever but but but that's the [TS]

  age that we are now you and I mm-hmm and [TS]

  unfortunately because Generation X was [TS]

  so small we never had we never had the [TS]

  feeling that like we were making the [TS]

  culture really the same no one has [TS]

  really cared what we think never never [TS]

  cared the the baby boomers alone the [TS]

  thing that's wrong per se but like [TS]

  there's not that many generations that [TS]

  should have the right to be a listen [TS]

  really nobody cared nobody cared no we [TS]

  were just too small and we were just we [TS]

  were too even from an early age we were [TS]

  too resigned [TS]

  just like her losers but but this this [TS]

  feeling now of being 49 and looking and [TS]

  saying like oh it doesn't matter it [TS]

  doesn't matter whether I'm for or [TS]

  against the war it's just and it's not [TS]

  like you go out to pasture but you [TS]

  definitely feel like you I mean it's not [TS]

  even that I hand over the reins I never [TS]

  had the reins you never had the reins [TS]

  it's just like you watch the reins get [TS]

  handed over in front of you and you're [TS]

  like I didn't even get to touch the [TS]

  reins I'm we're like the Prince Charles [TS]

  of cultures it's just like I've been [TS]

  sitting here in my double-breasted [TS]

  jacket until the sleeves are all frayed [TS]

  waiting to be king even for a minute [TS]

  you know my daughter has actually asked [TS]

  about that she's because it's really [TS]

  interesting to think about this man's in [TS]

  his 70s at this point right [TS]

  hmm it's like and she's what 90 [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah always the always a prince bride [TS]

  never never another Queen Queen Queen [TS]

  Mother right to being queen mother no [TS]

  who is it who's the lead son right Bob [TS]

  Bob brick King Bob he the the son the [TS]

  number one son top son is very handsome [TS]

  mm-hmm and then he's surprisingly I [TS]

  think lost his hair and everybody was he [TS]

  looks a lot like his beautiful mother [TS]

  but with a receding hairline yeah it's a [TS]

  shame it has receded all the way pretty [TS]

  much but it did it at a young age when [TS]

  he still was you know when he still was [TS]

  so beautiful that sucks and he didn't do [TS]

  it Donald Trump where he was just like [TS]

  you know what I'm gonna be standing out [TS]

  in front of an airplane a lot for the [TS]

  next several years where my hair is [TS]

  gonna be blown all around so I'm gonna [TS]

  just I'm gonna be President baseball I'm [TS]

  gonna make oh yeah or you're gonna [TS]

  become president pastry hair well he was [TS]

  always pastry hair guy right but he [TS]

  became president and eight ball hat [TS]

  pretty early on that's smart you think [TS]

  that was a logistical decision based on [TS]

  planes planes and helicopters sure [TS]

  because you're standing around you can't [TS]

  I mean in the past he was photographed [TS]

  always under his own conditions and he [TS]

  could have three people like [TS]

  the closet spring lacquer on him mm-hmm [TS]

  but I think I think early on he was [TS]

  standing out on a tarmac somewhere while [TS]

  the plane was winding up and his hair [TS]

  was standing straight up like this like [TS]

  a sailfish you may not be aware that I [TS]

  collect and curate photographs [TS]

  unflattering photographs of the [TS]

  president no it was in the early days of [TS]

  the whatever this is we're going through [TS]

  it became I have several small forms of [TS]

  therapy that are mostly just for me and [TS]

  one of them was every time I find a [TS]

  really good unflattering photo and a lot [TS]

  of them are him and his his his giant [TS]

  ass playing golf but I do have a few of [TS]

  his hair giving up the ghost a little [TS]

  bit and not like a lot of guys with that [TS]

  kind of pastry hair he has some bits [TS]

  that are very very long and once they [TS]

  come away from the primary case they're [TS]

  way up there you can see him get caught [TS]

  a little bit in like in like minor [TS]

  tornadoes where the hair is like not [TS]

  only up but it's also sort of twisting [TS]

  to see how I mean there's some things we [TS]

  know and some things we can guess about [TS]

  the man we can we it is believed that he [TS]

  has some kind of apparent anxiety about [TS]

  stairs hmm this is fairly widely [TS]

  documented has not been proven but he [TS]

  has for years he's been tweeting about [TS]

  how President Obama should use the [TS]

  handrail when he gets off Air Force One [TS]

  that it's very unsafe he's got some [TS]

  hangups and I think one of them is [TS]

  stairs so we know he doesn't like stairs [TS]

  we know it doesn't like wind he's got a [TS]

  low center of gravity he should be [TS]

  pretty good on stairs yeah I think he [TS]

  doesn't trust his tiny feet I think he's [TS]

  afraid he's gonna go ass over teakettle [TS]

  but like shit think about getting on and [TS]

  off of planes it must be such a [TS]

  stressful thing and yet lately he's been [TS]

  doing more and more of those screaming [TS]

  over the helicopter blades sound a [TS]

  little mini press conferences so he must [TS]

  have found something that is working for [TS]

  him I feel like the who I mean just the [TS]

  like small power of the presidency which [TS]

  is no small power right but the small [TS]

  power to just be ferried everywhere by [TS]

  helicopter and like Air Force One even [TS]

  even though Air Force one is probably [TS]

  decorated atrociously and he's not [TS]

  helping [TS]

  I can imagine that they have they have [TS]

  probably screwed some chandeliers into [TS]

  the ceiling of Air Force One we're just [TS]

  not seeing it yet imagine it being like [TS]

  the Duke in a number one king of New [TS]

  York oh yeah let's go he's got like a [TS]

  chandelier on his limo but I was just in [TS]

  DC the other day and some minor minor [TS]

  minor dignitary drove by in with a [TS]

  police escort and I think it was a [TS]

  caravan of like two SUVs and I [TS]

  speculated too there was somebody [TS]

  standing on the street corner and as you [TS]

  know on the East Coast nobody likes [TS]

  being addressed more than just an East [TS]

  Coaster standing waiting for a light by [TS]

  a by a stranger like hey who do you [TS]

  think is in that Caravan that's anything [TS]

  and the local guy was like I don't know [TS]

  man and then the light changed and I was [TS]

  like well that hey great talk mm-hmm but [TS]

  I was trying to think like who gets a [TS]

  minor league police escort like that [TS]

  like you know it wasn't super minor [TS]

  league it was four cops - at each corner [TS]

  and they were getting to run lights [TS]

  maybe somebody from Congress uh well [TS]

  somebody else I think overheard me talk [TS]

  to mr. guy who then split and I think [TS]

  over my shoulder they said might be Paul [TS]

  Ryan and I was like huh Paul Ryan you [TS]

  think it's that yeah I suppose that's [TS]

  about Ryan you know it's like because [TS]

  like the king of Mombasa is gonna get a [TS]

  big entourage they're gonna throw [TS]

  they're gonna be throwing flower petals [TS]

  out in front of them that's that's in [TS]

  his Ryder [TS]

  that's in his Ryder right so but that [TS]

  type of thing where everywhere you go [TS]

  that's the thing money can't buy like us [TS]

  like Zuckerberg doesn't get 50 cops [TS]

  follow him following him and like [TS]

  running red lights and when the [TS]

  president comes here they close down the [TS]

  freeway I am it's so disruptive and that [TS]

  is a big I think a thing that that that [TS]

  president baseball hat [TS]

  probably like after he realized oh you [TS]

  don't get chandeliers in your limo but [TS]

  you do get to close down the freeway [TS]

  that's got to be really enticing that's [TS]

  got to really make a person not want to [TS]

  retire not want to resign mm-hmm you [TS]

  know even even if you do want to resign [TS]

  that's gonna make you think twice about [TS]

  resigning because once that goes away [TS]

  you never get it back I mean something [TS]

  that many of us can appreciate or [TS]

  understand is first-class on a plane [TS]

  so I i'd had a okay number of plane [TS]

  flights throughout my life and then at [TS]

  one point during the.com days my boss it [TS]

  was a really great guy [TS]

  upgraded me and I flew in 1999-2000 I [TS]

  flew in first class for the first time [TS]

  and you know it's such a it's such a [TS]

  lame joke to make but it is kind of hard [TS]

  to go back like once you've been in [TS]

  first class and you especially today I [TS]

  mean our first class today is like a put [TS]

  it this way coach today not a fun [TS]

  experience we've talked about this know [TS]

  what it is what you have experienced [TS]

  that and you go like this does not have [TS]

  to be stressful and awful and I get to [TS]

  feel a little bit fancy like especially [TS]

  if you're a poor kid like me you go oh [TS]

  this is this is kind of nice I would [TS]

  love to do this again [TS]

  and I bet it's like that to the tenth [TS]

  power aspect especially if you're say a [TS]

  Steve minuchin and or your price we're [TS]

  talking about politics we promised we [TS]

  wouldn't do that did we didn't talk [TS]

  about politics well you know you talk [TS]

  about optics optics you always had an [TS]

  unofficial policy of let's not talk [TS]

  about politics cuz I want to be able to [TS]

  release them this is you don't talk [TS]

  about religion in the ones that make it [TS]

  on the air no no I'm not believe you me [TS]

  my friend I know where the line is you [TS]

  get quiet you get quiet for a little [TS]

  while no no I know I know there was a [TS]

  there was a while there right we're [TS]

  right about an hour and 10 minutes in [TS]

  where you were like this is a releasable [TS]

  podcast you would view it would be so [TS]

  good would be so close to being done and [TS]

  be so close and then you would find a [TS]

  message that you wanted to get out yeah [TS]

  but you know [TS]

  you know I don't disagree with your [TS]

  message I just want to you know help the [TS]

  nice people I know so no I believe I [TS]

  believe the children are our future yeah [TS]

  yeah but I do care to let them lead the [TS]

  way are you really prepared that's the [TS]

  thing about being 49 mm-hmm I feel like [TS]

  one of the challenges that I've been [TS]

  facing is how do I continue to be useful [TS]

  to people which I've always desired to [TS]

  be and tried to be how do I continue to [TS]

  be useful while also acknowledging that [TS]

  whether or not I think a thing matters [TS]

  or is good or sensible no longer really [TS]

  matters mm-hmm and so I want to continue [TS]

  to be useful wanting to realize that [TS]

  intellectually and then it's one thing [TS]

  to see it play it out in every single [TS]

  exchange of your life yeah since dad [TS]

  where you're yelling at clouds yeah yeah [TS]

  but you do want to be useful and there [TS]

  was a time I think a long time before my [TS]

  dad's generation where the understanding [TS]

  continued to be that as people get older [TS]

  they accrue wisdom and so are more [TS]

  useful even if they aren't down in the [TS]

  trenches doing things you go consult [TS]

  them or whatever and then but you know [TS]

  things changed that's nice that's not [TS]

  fair to say the 20th century a lot of [TS]

  stuff happened really fast but for many [TS]

  mmm decades maybe even centuries the [TS]

  pace of change would not exceed what [TS]

  happened over two generations you can [TS]

  say you know dad mom and dad have seen [TS]

  some shit like we should listen to them [TS]

  yeah right I mean daddy they know how to [TS]

  root cellar we need the root cellar they [TS]

  know from root cellar we should be [TS]

  listening to them yeah right the wagon [TS]

  is broken and only dad knows how to fix [TS]

  it or how do you how do you water an [TS]

  older horse hmm and you know Gramps has [TS]

  got that kind of but but Gramps now is [TS]

  like here's how you water an older horse [TS]

  and like the kids are like son Jetson [TS]

  scooters and they're like we don't use [TS]

  horses great that's a good example yeah [TS]

  well you know I like to help you've [TS]

  given it some thought but like how can [TS]

  we be useful without seeming grouchy [TS]

  this has been something that we've been [TS]

  all this time and realizing that my [TS]

  looking at those photos of my dad right [TS]

  around the time that I was that I was a [TS]

  young young guy and my dad was like that [TS]

  they all grew their sideburns long yeah [TS]

  I got like over one like season [TS]

  something every guy had sideburns my dad [TS]

  went from being like we're from wearing [TS]

  a James Bond tuxedo to having sideburns [TS]

  long sideburns and wearing a kind of [TS]

  leather like a leather trench coat not [TS]

  even leather but like suede trench coat [TS]

  and I was like what happened to my dad [TS]

  is application of Dad's yeah and then [TS]

  there and then there like going on ski [TS]

  trips and they got big big big wide ties [TS]

  and that was that was during that era [TS]

  when the when my dad would appear in [TS]

  court and the judge would because the [TS]

  judges were maybe the last people to [TS]

  adopt sideburns the judge a couple of [TS]

  times a judge told my dad that that that [TS]

  his the Blazer that he was wearing in [TS]

  court was not suitable oh right like [TS]

  that's your freebie yeah freebie you [TS]

  know what Dave cuz they also like they [TS]

  all drank together whatever so I was [TS]

  like hey Dave [TS]

  sidebar mm-hmm don't ever wear that [TS]

  jacket in court again and my dad was [TS]

  like well you know I was on my way [TS]

  somewhere else yeah so that you know I [TS]

  also don't want that to happen we're [TS]

  we're just like okay well we're we're [TS]

  gonna dye our hair too [TS]

  we're gonna like Manic Panic my hair [TS]

  just just to stay in the game it's like [TS]

  no you're not you're not gonna do that [TS]

  either yeah how's that helping yeah [TS]

  you're not gonna Manic Panic I think [TS]

  this is not interesting or funny but I [TS]

  think two things you can do are to [TS]

  embrace curiosity and kindness Oh [TS]

  curiosity and Kanye it's not funny but [TS]

  curiosity and kindness and you know [TS]

  kindness kindness doesn't hurt anybody [TS]

  as long as you're not being a dick about [TS]

  it or doing it for your own selfish [TS]

  reasons but like you know I go to the [TS]

  bodega oh you know couple three times a [TS]

  week and I see the lady at the bodega [TS]

  who's always lady at the bodega and you [TS]

  know she goes she's uh she's a woman in [TS]

  flux she's a recent grandmother she's [TS]

  she's always trying new things she's got [TS]

  different nails [TS]

  she's got different eyebrows she's got [TS]

  different hair she's trying [TS]

  some things out then I will frequent if [TS]

  I feel this I will say hey I really like [TS]

  your hair and that's it that's it I mean [TS]

  cool I broke I hope that's not too gross [TS]

  a thing to say to a sixty year old woman [TS]

  but like I'll say hey I really like your [TS]

  hair and that's have you ever have you [TS]

  ever said eyebrows on fleek I should do [TS]

  that I should do that I'm personal about [TS]

  like a specific part like I don't want [TS]

  to be like oh your left arm looks good [TS]

  today [TS]

  you know you get too specific and it [TS]

  gets kind of odd like you have nice [TS]

  incisors there was a while there where [TS]

  where when I would use on fleek which I [TS]

  now spell en fleek only off fleek on [TS]

  fleek on the French style I would get a [TS]

  lot of like big eye rolls from from my [TS]

  millennium followers and I deploy them [TS]

  tactically yes someday when the book is [TS]

  written about our time the three lols [TS]

  are gonna be a whole different laws but [TS]

  as time went on and the millenniums [TS]

  decided that all fleek was no longer [TS]

  their thing they weren't doing it I was [TS]

  like no no no on fleek is a thing you [TS]

  can't back down you you may not want it [TS]

  I went out there you did that you put it [TS]

  out there yeah it was on fleek was you [TS]

  not me but now I feel like and the thing [TS]

  is I originally on fleek was only for [TS]

  eyebrows is that right yeah it was just [TS]

  for I brony eyebrows could be on fleek [TS]

  at first John is that one of those black [TS]

  lady reactions you have type things that [TS]

  we need to talk about is it is it [TS]

  are we being racial when we say on fleek [TS]

  or is that just a purely without race [TS]

  millennium thing I don't think so I [TS]

  think it's pure millennium on fleek I [TS]

  don't know where it came from and I [TS]

  don't think anybody does mmm-hmm I may [TS]

  be one there may be one of those things [TS]

  where it was a misspelling like prawn [TS]

  like oh that's a really good prawn and [TS]

  and what it means was porn but they but [TS]

  they were typing to catch fish [TS]

  and it also brawl shrimping they call it [TS]

  yeah okay all right or whatever all [TS]

  those things that come out of 4chan [TS]

  where somebody's like typing too fast [TS]

  and they don't stick in your computer [TS]

  they don't get it right like now on [TS]

  4chan [TS]

  instead of wall they say kak-kek because [TS]

  they're near each other I know they're [TS]

  not at all they're not I mean all is [TS]

  right next to each other kek is far away [TS]

  but it it it stands for something else [TS]

  and so on for 10 now everybody goes kack [TS]

  kack and it's a it's a forced meme you [TS]

  know it's that's there's that's a fun [TS]

  thing yeah the forced meme okay forced [TS]

  meme people are always trying to force a [TS]

  meme I'm hoping I can make a meme out of [TS]

  the fact that I'm always typing [TS]

  something wrong on my on iOS and I end [TS]

  up getting a comma and the letter n in [TS]

  the middle of the word did you ever get [TS]

  that I and when I'm texting I and 30% of [TS]

  my texts with a lowercase B I'm like [TS]

  what time we're gonna be there B and I [TS]

  don't know why oh it's because the B is [TS]

  right [TS]

  right [TS]

  in the center above the space bar I'll [TS]

  see you do a dip dip on the bar and you [TS]

  accidentally had to be actually so where [TS]

  are we going be and no one ever comments [TS]

  on it nobody's ever like why you calling [TS]

  me B it's kind of rappy it sounds a [TS]

  little bit rappy yeah what's up being [TS]

  hit up what up B I have a friend that [TS]

  ends every text with BB [TS]

  what's up BB and I think what he means [TS]

  is baby what's up baby oh I don't like [TS]

  that at all [TS]

  I hate it and I said to him a couple of [TS]

  times like - please don't call me bebe [TS]

  and he's like no it means like it means [TS]

  like BB and I'm like no no no it does [TS]

  not I just like mommy blogger it's like [TS]

  a French diminutive that I don't like [TS]

  applied to me out like a day they like a [TS]

  bit babe a hmm no it's a black lady [TS]

  reaction gif thing when you call [TS]

  somebody BAE isn't that a black lady [TS]

  reaction gif thing we need to talk about [TS]

  don't think so I think that's a pure [TS]

  millennium thing okay what's a BAE a BAE [TS]

  is like a it's like a sweet baby but [TS]

  it's like that's my baby but it's BAE [TS]

  what about squat goals see I use I [TS]

  deploy squad girls all the time I will [TS]

  not say BAE and I won't let anybody call [TS]

  me Bay okay [TS]

  oh you just lay that out there just this [TS]

  is not a thing we're gonna do this yeah [TS]

  don't don't call me Bay and most people [TS]

  most of the millenniums that I associate [TS]

  with have the good sense not to use Bay [TS]

  even in their own lives I have one that [TS]

  I've been sitting on for several weeks [TS]

  and I finally had to ask some [TS]

  millenniums about it because I keep [TS]

  seeing it in like Twitter moments I [TS]

  don't know what it means and I think I [TS]

  got an answer but people kept talking [TS]

  about when they when there were people [TS]

  like on a reality show that they wanted [TS]

  to hook up they would say that they're [TS]

  shipping them they say oh yeah we're [TS]

  we're shipping you know Todd and Alice [TS]

  from you know rippy bachelors show or [TS]

  whatever and I never I didn't understand [TS]

  what that means and I thought and I the [TS]

  answer that I got is really unsatisfying [TS]

  they say a it's been around for a long [TS]

  time idiot you with relationship are you [TS]

  familiar with shipping as it sorry sorry [TS]

  no I never never seen it never heard it [TS]

  I just don't know I don't want to be [TS]

  culturally appropriate if I don't need [TS]

  to be appropriate appropriate [TS]

  appropriation I'm um that's what I'm [TS]

  shipping [TS]

  yeah well I think that there's I think [TS]

  that the millenniums have a lot of [TS]

  different levels of relationship that we [TS]

  didn't have sing it sister right because [TS]

  he had like not very they seem totally [TS]

  finally there's just every everything's [TS]

  all higgledy-piggledy like whatever [TS]

  guess you can say someone's your BAE [TS]

  yes shipping with them you should be net [TS]

  Netflix and leaking John John could it [TS]

  be complicated I think it I think that's [TS]

  part of how where it got started right [TS]

  again with a hook up it might be a [TS]

  Netflix on fleek oh it's leaking chill I [TS]

  bet we can chill I'm not sure if it's [TS]

  true like I one of my first millennium [TS]

  friends back when they were still like [TS]

  20 yeah I used to say to me all the time [TS]

  used to sort of brag in a braggy young [TS]

  person way about how fluid their [TS]

  relationships works and as that's kind [TS]

  of woke right it was well at the time I [TS]

  think it was Ben it was it was a [TS]

  contrast that that that this friend was [TS]

  making between his you're like young [TS]

  cool more groovy people and my old stuck [TS]

  in the mud people and I never had the [TS]

  heart to tell him that you know that I [TS]

  whatever man I'd like touch more dicks [TS]

  than you've had hot the entire line yeah [TS]

  you were your patient zero for fluid [TS]

  yeah that's right I was so fluid in the [TS]

  early night for notes it's you've had [TS]

  you've touched more dicks than you've [TS]

  had hot meals is that it hot dinner too [TS]

  many dicks that's too many I haven't [TS]

  touched that many dicks but but but more [TS]

  than hot more than he had had hot [TS]

  dinners at the time now he may have had [TS]

  more hot dinners in the interim I was so [TS]

  fluid viscosity you know what I mean [TS]

  like like early times this was like we [TS]

  were very very existential viscosity you [TS]

  were like eh you were like a human semen [TS]

  squid he just fit into any space look [TS]

  you know give it to you tell me where it [TS]

  is and I will squeeze in there yeah what [TS]

  time what do I wear [TS]

  but as [TS]

  time has gone on and now that he's a [TS]

  person that's in his in his 30s like [TS]

  that fluidity his fluidity has has [TS]

  really coagulated right now he's just [TS]

  sort of like he just wants a girlfriend [TS]

  now oh yeah habit of thinking that [TS]

  you're progressive yeah you think like [TS]

  oh man I'm always gonna live like this [TS]

  me and my friends are always gonna pig [TS]

  pile naked and just like Netflix and and [TS]

  and cleco all night and day and it's [TS]

  like now well maybe but probably [TS]

  everybody wants eventually everybody [TS]

  wants a white picket fence except for a [TS]

  very few of us just I always think about [TS]

  the guys that there were kind of [TS]

  ungraciously call townies but but the [TS]

  guys in their late 20s 30s 40s 50s who [TS]

  kept coming to college parties years [TS]

  after they had gone there for one [TS]

  semester I mean that's not a good look [TS]

  in a pig pile no there was a there was a [TS]

  that's not for you right there [TS]

  there was a young kid who had a band [TS]

  during the shearing peak indie rock [TS]

  years here in Seattle and his dad was [TS]

  the bass player in the band and his dad [TS]

  was probably in his 40s and the kid was [TS]

  late teens and his dad wore color in his [TS]

  hair [TS]

  you know like Manic Panic and it was [TS]

  very uncomfortable for all of us because [TS]

  you don't want to really be interacting [TS]

  with the kid because he's a child [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  you don't want to interact with the dad [TS]

  because he's a dad that he's not your [TS]

  dad but he's a student he's clearly a [TS]

  dad's and dad yeah and but they would be [TS]

  at parties and events like they would [TS]

  the kid could be there because his dad [TS]

  was there [TS]

  mm-hm and his dad shouldn't have been [TS]

  there and that was always very hard and [TS]

  now but you know what's fortunate is [TS]

  that now I can go to those parties and [TS]

  there's usually like a there's usually a [TS]

  padded chair that I can sit on and [TS]

  in a corner and if people want to come [TS]

  pay their respects they can put your [TS]

  dogs up and maybe hold court a little [TS]

  bit yeah you try and put your dogs up [TS]

  and and you know the people that don't [TS]

  want to come the people who want to [TS]

  stand across the room and go ah that guy [TS]

  I've never liked that guy they can do [TS]

  that sure you don't have to come over no [TS]

  but it's not like I'm circulating you [TS]

  know what I mean I'm not out there like [TS]

  trying to figure out who the young bands [TS]

  are and go hang out with them it's like [TS]

  if the young bands want to come say [TS]

  hello that's wonderful [TS]

  I'm doing a recording right now actually [TS]

  and one of the MN and the person playing [TS]

  the drums is a member of one of the [TS]

  young bands and we have a great time [TS]

  together I'll bet you do you know but [TS]

  then I then I music a generational John [TS]

  there's so much you guys still have in [TS]

  common yeah it really is a language [TS]

  Berlin mm-hmm but but then I'm like oh [TS]

  oh wait I'm 20 years older than this [TS]

  person yeah 20 years older which is an [TS]

  entire which is the lifetime of an [TS]

  entire cool musician yeah they're you [TS]

  know these young musicians aren't 20 [TS]

  they're in their late 20s they're [TS]

  already at that age where a musician has [TS]

  to confront the fact that maybe they [TS]

  didn't make it and yet there is still a [TS]

  plain old man yeah another playing with [TS]

  an old guy now they're on some record by [TS]

  a guy who's like wow I was sitting in a [TS]

  chair with my fly unzips I was like sit [TS]

  on a crate [TS]

  which which would absolutely be my dream [TS]

  right apparently John Lee for a long [TS]

  time in the later days of his career and [TS]

  I talked to many people that played with [TS]

  him he did just keep his fly down oh [TS]

  really [TS]

  yeah he just I mean and it wasn't really [TS]

  like the audience couldn't he was [TS]

  sitting on it on a chair the audience [TS]

  couldn't really see it but everybody [TS]

  else could and I guess it was like for [TS]

  he was just venting but that's that's a [TS]

  bold place in life you got that is John [TS]

  squat goals right now did you just have [TS]

  a group group of men that you can really [TS]

  relate to and you're all just totally [TS]

  comfortable sitting around your fly's [TS]

  down if nobody talks about it doesn't [TS]

  have to be weird it's not even anything [TS]

  you have to coordinate it just happens I [TS]

  I for sure feel like at least for me [TS]

  squad goals is only an internet joke for [TS]

  me like personally I don't really have [TS]

  squad goals I do have a goal to have [TS]

  five or six people around my property in [TS]

  my employ but I wouldn't call that a [TS]

  squad well you know if it becomes a [TS]

  squad and maybe not everybody who's on [TS]

  the property in the compound is [TS]

  technically in the squad you might have [TS]

  some you know you think about Elvis [TS]

  right you think about it so think about [TS]

  anybody or you think about Don Corleone [TS]

  you get these people that like are kind [TS]

  of in this hammer right you get this [TS]

  retinue of these kind of characters that [TS]

  move in and out right right and Hammer [TS]

  was paying all of his friends to be [TS]

  there he was a nice man he's still a [TS]

  nice man remember that hammers 50th [TS]

  birthday party now I'm 15 not happen at [TS]

  the Tonga room or whatever now we just [TS]

  have a quiet dinner and get to bed early [TS]

  I have a couple of squads I'm actually a [TS]

  member of you have a couple of squads I [TS]

  think I artist member of some squads I [TS]

  think I'm an adjunct squaty but there [TS]

  are but there are people that are [TS]

  full-on like the squad is where they [TS]

  live and belong because of FOMO FOMO [TS]

  first in last out for me that's called [TS]

  the fear of missing out Olympics oh the [TS]

  fear of me it's the primary existential [TS]

  characteristic of millenniums is [TS]

  FOMO oh they have FOMO they're fun they [TS]

  have a fear of missing out I feel like [TS]

  the squad's that I am that the squad's [TS]

  that I attend [TS]

  are there not millenniums guan's they're [TS]

  like squads of guys that get together [TS]

  and watch football games and play poker [TS]

  like rock people who do that listen Rock [TS]

  poker they used to be ashamed that they [TS]

  would watch football a little bit [TS]

  because it wasn't very rock but then at [TS]

  a certain point they just were like [TS]

  that's I just want to watch football [TS]

  whether it's rock or not it was [TS]

  described it as something people took [TS]

  pretty seriously were you weren't [TS]

  allowed to shuck and jive and walk [TS]

  around and you know play grab-ass that a [TS]

  lot of your friends take it fairly [TS]

  seriously you know way some people watch [TS]

  Game of Thrones like you have to watch [TS]

  this with a very prayerful mindset you [TS]

  do it's a it's a particularly in Seattle [TS]

  the professional sports are understood [TS]

  in a kind of George Will context where [TS]

  people intellectualize about sports here [TS]

  Oh y'all get to be George Plimpton yeah [TS]

  there's a there's a like oh no no we're [TS]

  talking about the book about sports we [TS]

  read the book about sports we didn't [TS]

  we're not just here for the movie yep [TS]

  and so and particularly when we lost our [TS]

  basketball team then they became [TS]

  existential you could be like dark about [TS]

  sports [TS]

  we're still talking about getting a [TS]

  basketball team back God's like from the [TS]

  outside and all its like the same God [TS]

  but like when you're in a squad goal of [TS]

  the Gauss you realize there's different [TS]

  there's mopey god there's football Goths [TS]

  you didn't like McDonald's goth like [TS]

  they're all different like variations [TS]

  now a lot of people are going to know [TS]

  who McDonald's goth is but you'll know [TS]

  if you're in the gods to go is that guys [TS]

  McDonald's guy man everyone smile you'll [TS]

  see somebody that's like I'm skater goth [TS]

  and you go no they're skater is outside [TS]

  of the realm of goth you know you are [TS]

  not skater go that's another CAPTCHA [TS]

  that's another one of those tests you [TS]

  throw usually throw in a skater goth and [TS]

  everybody so you can instantly know who [TS]

  the real ballers are and in the [TS]

  psychological exactly you're like punk [TS]

  goth yes I like football goth sure [TS]

  mm-hmm [TS]

  but then you're like nature goth no no [TS]

  there's no nature that's a black metal [TS]

  isn't that a black metal thing like [TS]

  those those bands that are like druids [TS]

  with a kabuki the samurai make up [TS]

  whatever it's called yeah they're out in [TS]

  those little Scandinavian checks you [TS]

  could be a Czech goth you could hello be [TS]

  a check off that's the that's the entire [TS]

  goth comes from the Czech Republic I bet [TS]

  I bet the Czechs with all due respect to [TS]

  the mini the mini black metal and dark [TS]

  metals love the Nordic lands [TS]

  I bet the Czechs just look in there and [TS]

  like give me a fucking break [TS]

  I'm standing here in a creek playing [TS]

  guitar you you want you walk off like I [TS]

  got I got heavy a heavy goth I worship a [TS]

  fucking twig I feel like the slow Vox [TS]

  are there's a lot of this is a thing [TS]

  that you don't always know the Eastern [TS]

  Slovakia is a very mountainous region [TS]

  you know the Romanians get all the [TS]

  Transylvania vibe they get to be like [TS]

  whoo haha because they got Transylvania [TS]

  there and it's it's mountainous and it's [TS]

  like it's like scary but Ukraine [TS]

  Slovakia Poland like there's a place in [TS]

  there where the Carpathian Mountains are [TS]

  very very tall like super tall like I [TS]

  see full of bears tall and and they're [TS]

  up there doing doing very Goffe things I [TS]

  think you gotta get outside the [TS]

  mainstream like you I don't doubt that [TS]

  there are metal bands in Prague [TS]

  certainly just the law of large numbers [TS]

  tells us that there will be prog metal [TS]

  bands but you got to really go up a [TS]

  Carpathian to find some serious Goths [TS]

  yeah that's not even the serious go [TS]

  through people untethered from the [TS]

  expectations of the city I think [TS]

  somewhere up in Finland [TS]

  you know the Finns hated the Russians so [TS]

  much that they sided with the Nazis not [TS]

  because they believed in Nazism but [TS]

  because they hated the Russians that [TS]

  much yeah the enemy my enemy that's [TS]

  right the enemy of the enemy is my [TS]

  friend and they are very I bet you [TS]

  there's some there are some holes up [TS]

  there that are full of dark magic [TS]

  which is the one is Iceland the one [TS]

  where they have gnomes Iceland has [TS]

  gnomes this the Finns have gnomes I [TS]

  don't think of the fins as nomic okay I [TS]

  think that the Swedes have gnomes I [TS]

  think that the the nor norsk have gnomes [TS]

  the Danish definitely at the dance the [TS]

  dance dance people and I think the I [TS]

  think the the gnomes of Iceland probably [TS]

  came they were like in the hold of the [TS]

  ship that came from Denmark and they [TS]

  snuck out like like a brown rat like a [TS]

  little little bit of a rat they call it [TS]

  no is there because it's it for them [TS]

  that's like that's like that's like [TS]

  pokemons there like that's just part of [TS]

  the culture there's nobody's gonna be [TS]

  freaked out that you believe in gnomes [TS]

  right maybe a Finn you take a Finn a [TS]

  true Russian hating Finn and their [TS]

  attachment to the no mckernon omec [TS]

  culture is something that's more bespoke [TS]

  and personal that's their squad goal I [TS]

  feel like probably in Finland they have [TS]

  raids [TS]

  oh right more than gnomes there's not [TS]

  like somebody living in a tree stump [TS]

  it's like some it's like a ghoul walking [TS]

  through a blown-out forest that never [TS]

  sees light we had Tom Petty he was our [TS]

  race oh right [TS]

  fucking-a what I'm gonna ask you about I [TS]

  wonder what you got your basement no go [TS]

  ahead talk about Tom Petty oh just for a [TS]

  second I'll talk all the time petty you [TS]

  want I do want to hear about the [TS]

  progress of your house if it suits you [TS]

  well so progress of the house goes like [TS]

  this [TS]

  some necessarily follow the Internet as [TS]

  regards to this show but I can tell you [TS]

  this has this has been brought up on [TS]

  other programs that I do from people who [TS]

  listen to show people are very [TS]

  interested in what's happening with song [TS]

  people I'm very interested with who's in [TS]

  the basement Peter okay Peter Peter in [TS]

  Somme and and retinue at your compound [TS]

  people are very curious about what's [TS]

  happening with this just as much as [TS]

  you're comfortable could you give our [TS]

  listeners an update on where you are so [TS]

  some really kicked it into high gear at [TS]

  a certain point some had everything [TS]

  going at once at one point right he had [TS]

  a lot of balls in the air he had he was [TS]

  power washing the paint off the house he [TS]

  was rebuilding the porch that I had torn [TS]

  apart he was also doing kind of [TS]

  magical thing which you always want but [TS]

  can never sort of know how to ask for [TS]

  which was he was just walking around the [TS]

  house and in the course of doing his [TS]

  other things pressure washing and and [TS]

  the like he was also noticing broken [TS]

  things and fixing them without being [TS]

  asked this is the phenomenon that I call [TS]

  power puttering is the ability to move [TS]

  through a space accomplish things even [TS]

  as you're realizing what else needs to [TS]

  be accomplished it's a very powerful [TS]

  concept it's incredible and he I came [TS]

  home one day and walked around the back [TS]

  of the house and SAAM had put a bunch of [TS]

  he had replaced all the broken shingles [TS]

  and I was like we didn't even talk about [TS]

  shingles he's just got shingles sitting [TS]

  around yeah I was well or he went and [TS]

  got something he was legless on his way [TS]

  to get some paint and he was like I'll [TS]

  get a little bundle of shingles shingles [TS]

  to and fix those broken shingles so he [TS]

  was doing that kind of thing which was [TS]

  pretty astonishing and then his friend [TS]

  arrived and his friend was from Mexico [TS]

  and some and he did not have a common [TS]

  language and I said to some at one point [TS]

  how long have you been working with your [TS]

  friend and he said oh four years where [TS]

  he's like he's like my guy Wow but it [TS]

  was beyond language [TS]

  yeah listening to them talk Psalms like [TS]

  psalm is throwing out some like pidgin [TS]

  Spanish and the guy is back at him kind [TS]

  of with a little bit of that sort of [TS]

  like see no kind of stuff where they [TS]

  were just communicating I guess bye-bye [TS]

  yep by common understanding of what [TS]

  needs done and so he was psalms painter [TS]

  and all of a sudden he was on the roof [TS]

  he didn't carry a little transistor [TS]

  radio with him he just was on the roof [TS]

  doing things and within the space of two [TS]

  days the entire house was went from a [TS]

  stripped like a bomb crater to a [TS]

  completely painted house and like pretty [TS]

  well done [TS]

  unfortunately this was right when the [TS]

  people across the street Dan and his [TS]

  wife who had finally completed the [TS]

  restoration of Jamaica's house right [TS]

  they were trying to have open houses so [TS]

  all of a sudden all these people that [TS]

  I'm hoping will filter down into my new [TS]

  neighbors they're all coming by the [TS]

  house to see how it's going and I've got [TS]

  like a couple of guys on the roof one of [TS]

  them of the transistor radio on his belt [TS]

  yelling at each other in and in like a [TS]

  patois language of their own design yeah [TS]

  and one of them's like got a compressor [TS]

  and there and so I talked to the real [TS]

  estate agent and they were like no no [TS]

  it's good it communicates that the [TS]

  neighborhood is really coming up and I [TS]

  was like okay I guess but but when you [TS]

  combine that with the RV that's like the [TS]

  third that's a third element you're [TS]

  asking other people to accept like two [TS]

  guys on the roof this guy and the porch [TS]

  is still missing yeah and the owner [TS]

  appears to have dug a trench around his [TS]

  house and he has a vintage RV it's a lot [TS]

  to take in this entire time Peters down [TS]

  in the basement also with a compressor [TS]

  also like doing also like finishing a [TS]

  basement which was never intended to be [TS]

  finished and there is some goth graffiti [TS]

  down there from a time in the 70s I [TS]

  think when one of the kids one of the [TS]

  twelve kids that grew up in this house [TS]

  had some sort of heavy rock band but pre [TS]

  I mean like like like Newcastle Brown [TS]

  Ale era heavy rock band okay like this [TS]

  is where venom is from that type of [TS]

  thing right so there's some little [TS]

  there's some quizzical sort of like [TS]

  quasi satanic pentagrams they can't see [TS]

  that right nobody can see it no but is [TS]

  there's a compressor down there you can [TS]

  hear a couple of different compressors [TS]

  going on okay on the problem but so [TS]

  where we are right now what happened was [TS]

  saw him and his partner were [TS]

  kicking ass and then the one [TS]

  disappointment I have is that right at [TS]

  the end they they got to the finish line [TS]

  they got to within sight of the finish [TS]

  line and then they just like sort of [TS]

  chucked it all in and we're gone and [TS]

  what that meant was they were just like [TS]

  and we're done [TS]

  bye and I walked around the house that [TS]

  day and I realized oh no in the last day [TS]

  they painted all the windows shut like [TS]

  they just got excited to be done kind of [TS]

  yeah and you would think that somebody [TS]

  that did this professionally would know [TS]

  how to not just get excited to be done [TS]

  on the last day because he had done so [TS]

  much sort of strangely meticulous work [TS]

  around the place he made everything it [TS]

  all came together right he picks the [TS]

  porch did the shingles he did the roof [TS]

  he flashed everything that he didn't [TS]

  have to flash he fixed stuff all around [TS]

  the house that no one asked him to do [TS]

  and then at the eleventh hour his guy [TS]

  and he just painted all the windows shut [TS]

  and as he was leaving I think I said hey [TS]

  hey uh you guys coming back to do the [TS]

  like not paint the windows shut thing [TS]

  uh-huh and they were like I think they [TS]

  both were like oh right and they walked [TS]

  around the house once and I was like [TS]

  okay they're gonna take care of this and [TS]

  then they were gone and so now Here I am [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and I'm going around the house with an [TS]

  x-acto knife and and a and a pry bar and [TS]

  I'm cutting the paint and I'm pry [TS]

  barring the windows open oh no and that [TS]

  means that I'm gonna have to fix the [TS]

  paint where I [TS]

  fuck it up trying to get the windows [TS]

  open right cuz you can't you know if [TS]

  that if that's painted as the seam and [TS]

  you wasn't if it tears off a little [TS]

  sheet yeah a little bit gonna tear and [TS]

  then you got a paint and then in [TS]

  painting the windows shut I did kind of [TS]

  a little bit of a radical thing which [TS]

  I'd been wanting to do for 10 years [TS]

  which was that so when Sam said I'm [TS]

  gonna paint the house he was like what [TS]

  color do you want to paint it and I said [TS]

  Sam it's a white house [TS]

  it was born it's a farm house right it [TS]

  was born white it's always gonna be [TS]

  painted white it it the trim is white [TS]

  the house is white the porch is white it [TS]

  doesn't if I were to come in here and be [TS]

  one of those people that's like I want [TS]

  my house to be gunmetal gray with with [TS]

  the you know like luminescent green trim [TS]

  I would be the asshole [TS]

  I would be that's wrong that's not what [TS]

  it's a gear house wants to be white it [TS]

  is and it doesn't I mean it's like it [TS]

  couldn't be other mm-hmm that's a white [TS]

  barn it's a white house and it's not one [TS]

  of those neighborhoods where there are a [TS]

  lot of white houses this is the only one [TS]

  it's got a white picket fence that [TS]

  matches the house that's how it's made [TS]

  and so some was a little disappointed [TS]

  that he didn't get to make it fancier [TS]

  but I did say what I've always wanted [TS]

  is black lacquer window sashes so just [TS]

  the interest part of the window the part [TS]

  that actually moves black is in like [TS]

  black like lacquer black like it looks [TS]

  like a like it looks like a Japanese box [TS]

  hmm so black black none blacker mm-hmm [TS]

  none more that must must be very [TS]

  dramatic look it's very good and it's [TS]

  the thing is it's very subtle you don't [TS]

  you know you don't notice it so much as [TS]

  you feel it you feel that sort of [TS]

  Slovakian carpathian yes you may not [TS]

  know what it is you know is there's [TS]

  something about this though this is [TS]

  special yep like Japanese box but Psalm [TS]

  and his and his best friend did not [TS]

  properly tape and so there's a little [TS]

  bit of bleed so I have to go back not [TS]

  just and paint the windows where I've [TS]

  cut them but also paint over the little [TS]

  dabs of [TS]

  black that are on the other side you [TS]

  hate that feeling where you've had work [TS]

  performed and now it just makes work for [TS]

  you yeah and and yet I mean this is [TS]

  certainly work I'm capable of doing [TS]

  without too much complaint but it isn't [TS]

  done and it didn't get done 100% right [TS]

  and everything else he did was great and [TS]

  it just felt like I was very sympathetic [TS]

  to it where he was like I'm gonna be [TS]

  done by Thursday and then Thursday came [TS]

  and there was another day of work to do [TS]

  and maybe he had budgeted maybe he had [TS]

  scheduled something that started on [TS]

  Thursday yeah and he just had to leave [TS]

  and the thing was I I gave him a nice [TS]

  tip because I eventually get to where [TS]

  you talked about money [TS]

  I did I was like I was like he he made [TS]

  me an offer on the whole job he was like [TS]

  what about this amount and I felt very [TS]

  strongly that some was somebody that I [TS]

  hadn't absolutely no interest in trying [TS]

  to negotiate him down I was like Tom [TS]

  that is a fine amount and let us have it [TS]

  be so the project management triangle [TS]

  becomes like we're locking in this [TS]

  amount and then our scope and quality [TS]

  will kind of is encompassed by this [TS]

  amount hard edges d is the amount yeah [TS]

  and I feel like you can definitely paint [TS]

  your house for fifteen thousand dollars [TS]

  and I didn't want to paint it from [TS]

  fifteen thousand dollars but if you [TS]

  paint your house for $7,500 you do not [TS]

  get a fifteen thousand dollar job and [TS]

  and I felt like the quality of the job [TS]

  overall that Saum did on the entire [TS]

  property was well in excess of what he [TS]

  was asking and so I tipped him also but [TS]

  there is this additional problem of like [TS]

  oh now I have this thing to do Elizabet [TS]

  taste in your mouth because everything [TS]

  else went so well he didn't yell the [TS]

  landing yeah only slightly because I [TS]

  still feel like he did he did a bang-up [TS]

  job for me mm-hmm [TS]

  but there is that little bit of like hmm [TS]

  psalms psalms guy as he described him [TS]

  this is his mejor amigo yeah [TS]

  did not [TS]

  maybe take up the pride in the last bad [TS]

  influence [TS]

  I who knows what's going on between [TS]

  those two [TS]

  I cannot imagine them going and getting [TS]

  a drink after work because I do not know [TS]

  what they would talk about because they [TS]

  didn't have even a lot to they it was [TS]

  not I think some often instructed him on [TS]

  what to do next by pointing with the [TS]

  backside of a paintbrush fine I think if [TS]

  you're clearing brush they understand [TS]

  that there's an area where there's brush [TS]

  we weren't there to not be brush and [TS]

  brush has to go to somewhere else via a [TS]

  given means pointing with the paintbrush [TS]

  is more than enough yeah but there was [TS]

  an understanding between them because [TS]

  psalms guy was not a young person right [TS]

  he was a man my own age so there was an [TS]

  assumption between them I think that he [TS]

  was talented at his work and did not [TS]

  need to be supervised and my feeling [TS]

  about the painting of the window shut is [TS]

  not that psalms guy did it and didn't [TS]

  then some wasn't hip to it I think it [TS]

  was more that they both like there was a [TS]

  little bit of a nod that went on between [TS]

  them like are we good here I feel like [TS]

  we're pretty I'd say I feel like we were [TS]

  pretty good and it might be that some [TS]

  underbid the job and felt like by the [TS]

  end I had gotten good value because [TS]

  that's how I feel but some definitely [TS]

  left in that in a way that did not I [TS]

  what I wanted to say was some you're [TS]

  welcome here anytime [TS]

  so great to land on that this whole [TS]

  story has been leading up to Psalm [TS]

  you're welcome back anytime you know [TS]

  yeah and I could see this getting to a [TS]

  point where he's on something like a [TS]

  retainer where some just went when it [TS]

  suits him you know every six to fourteen [TS]

  weeks he just drives by and notices [TS]

  something that needs fixing yeah and [TS]

  here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna fix [TS]

  this for you and I'd be like absolutely [TS]

  something you know what like I want you [TS]

  know what I want now I want a weather [TS]

  vane on top of the barn [TS]

  I want a weather vane in the style of [TS]

  not of a chicken I don't want a chicken [TS]

  on top of the barn what I want is a [TS]

  sailing ship a sailing ship that points [TS]

  in the direction of the wind and creates [TS]

  you just say I want a cool mailbox [TS]

  that's hard to knock down boom mailbox I [TS]

  do need that look at my current mailbox [TS]

  is actually like screwed to the phone [TS]

  Pole [TS]

  that up to code I don't think so I don't [TS]

  think anybody likes it but when I got [TS]

  here it was screwed to the phone pole [TS]

  and then when it started to fall down [TS]

  Linkous phone poles you need a pretty [TS]

  good screw to get into an old and might [TS]

  have I have old phone poles they're very [TS]

  porous they're poorest they are they're [TS]

  there this one's rotted to the core and [TS]

  so I had to find so the phone the [TS]

  mailbox started to fall off the pump ol [TS]

  Chanda and so I had to find I had to [TS]

  find a some hell of screws but I found [TS]

  them in the barn [TS]

  and and so I zipped that thing back into [TS]

  the phone pole and even now when the [TS]

  when the garbage truck goes by too fast [TS]

  the mailbox sort of rattles its prime to [TS]

  get mailbox baseball but I don't think [TS]

  kids today know what that is these kids [TS]

  today have never hit a mailbox with a [TS]

  baseball bat they don't even know they [TS]

  don't even know how with the fancy [TS]

  glasses yeah so anyway but Peter still [TS]

  here and now Peter has done a pretty [TS]

  great job of doing the basement so much [TS]

  so that the basement now is a is a [TS]

  constant temperature of 65 degrees [TS]

  whereas the temperature yeah the [TS]

  basement used to go from 90 degrees to 9 [TS]

  degrees depending on what was going on [TS]

  outside and you don't really have fancy [TS]

  equipment down there in a situation like [TS]

  that nope that's not a place that you [TS]

  want to store your your precious old [TS]

  like like western state hurricanes [TS]

  posters cuz they're gonna get little [TS]

  mold spots on him but I think today even [TS]

  Peter is down in the basement even maybe [TS]

  while we speak so while we were doing [TS]

  the show my mom came into the room and [TS]

  she handed me on a piece of yellow legal [TS]

  paper a note that said hand me a note [TS]

  that said I'm sorry , I'm getting sick [TS]

  and I'm going home to bed [TS]

  oh no I've given Peter the codes to the [TS]

  storage unit so now Peter has the codes [TS]

  okay now I don't know what she and Peter [TS]

  have discussed sounds like quite an [TS]

  escalation [TS]

  that is that in Peters purview no no I [TS]

  trust Peter with the codes okay Justin [TS]

  with the cuts [TS]

  I feel like Peter could have the launch [TS]

  codes even Peter so I was I went to a [TS]

  party the other day and another friend [TS]

  of mine said that he and Peter were were [TS]

  thinking about getting into the apple [TS]

  cider business I said tell me more [TS]

  and he walked me into his garage which [TS]

  was full of bins of little crab apples [TS]

  and he said he said these are these crab [TS]

  apples are from the Loire region of [TS]

  France and these crab apples are from [TS]

  the Piedmont area of Italy and these [TS]

  grants and I was and I was like where do [TS]

  you get all these and he said well up [TS]

  north of Seattle there is there's a [TS]

  agricultural a large agricultural area [TS]

  around the town of Arlington and there's [TS]

  a man who has a large property that has [TS]

  all of these magical vintage cider [TS]

  apples growing with names like the names [TS]

  of heritage rabbits [TS]

  oh okay so they originated from these [TS]

  European climes but these are locally [TS]

  sourced technically speaking yeah Apple [TS]

  from Italy and still have it'd be nice [TS]

  for cider well that's right you wouldn't [TS]

  have that shipped but the apples are a [TS]

  lot of them are like apples that are [TS]

  lost time no they don't exist in France [TS]

  anymore because they've all been like [TS]

  mega cultured mega a Gris out because [TS]

  they because apparently all the cider [TS]

  apples they have there now are by [TS]

  Monsanto yeah so these are these are [TS]

  like these incredible cider apples and [TS]

  my friend Michael has decided that cider [TS]

  making might be his new jam but he was [TS]

  but he and Peter are going to partner up [TS]

  on this [TS]

  and I hear sounds good go get her [TS]

  Oh Peters got a locker you know Peter [TS]

  lives on a houseboat did I tell you yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah uh-huh [TS]

  so Peters always have a certain state of [TS]

  mind and beyond uh both it's a house [TS]

  well you'll have a real different state [TS]

  of mind and when I talked to him about [TS]

  it I've never actually been on it but he [TS]

  says it's more of a house shit or it's [TS]

  more of a shed boat rather than a [TS]

  houseboat and I'm like I've been down [TS]

  around Lake Union a lot and I have seen [TS]

  a lot of these shed boats which are old [TS]

  you know they're properly like these [TS]

  were places that fishermen lived in the [TS]

  1910s that are still there and they're [TS]

  usually like what you would call like a [TS]

  shingle bedroom on a floating power it's [TS]

  the way somebody would do ice fishing in [TS]

  a cartoon kind of yeah there's like a [TS]

  portal it that happens to be floating [TS]

  yeah enough to put up enough to put a [TS]

  like a double bed a lamp [TS]

  chanmi a potty and maybe a maybe a [TS]

  little kitchen but like not a ton of I [TS]

  don't think it's a ton I don't think you [TS]

  could play frisbee in it but you also [TS]

  isn't it true a lot of the times with [TS]

  these things it's not the kind of thing [TS]

  where you would unmoor it and like go [TS]

  out for the day [TS]

  no it's mainly it is a floating Shack [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a floating [TS]

  Shack and I think what happens is you're [TS]

  renting the right to to tie it up to [TS]

  some place but if that if that person [TS]

  says like you're out mm-hmm you know we [TS]

  don't like your kind here you can hook a [TS]

  15 horsepower Evinrude to it and on a [TS]

  calm day like man your way across the [TS]

  lake to a place where somebody else is [TS]

  like yeah you can tie your house you got [TS]

  find you slip entire house up here but [TS]

  the but the end of the dock position on [TS]

  all of the houseboat lure ages around [TS]

  like Union is really pride of place you [TS]

  do not come privacy well and expansive [TS]

  view I mean you're the end of the dock [TS]

  right it's like you're at the top of the [TS]

  mountain and you don't just come along [TS]

  and like more your little your little [TS]

  outhouse on the front of somebody's dock [TS]

  I mean there's like little slots I think [TS]

  that they will find for you right [TS]

  but typically so Peter was actually [TS]

  talking about the people that Oh [TS]

  the birth they own the mortgage where [TS]

  there's at this houseboat community and [TS]

  it's one of the older style ones where [TS]

  everybody there's still a hippie most of [TS]

  the houseboats in our Marin [TS]

  yeah right they're still hippies tons of [TS]

  because I mean especially living on [TS]

  bojack's living on boat shacks I think [TS]

  Ellen what did that I think I want lived [TS]

  on a boat Chuck I feel like up until [TS]

  about 1995 you could be just somebody [TS]

  that lived on a houseboat it wasn't a [TS]

  thing that wasn't considered magic it [TS]

  was not a cute nor weird it was just [TS]

  like oh yeah I live down on a houseboat [TS]

  oh sure sure like you like living in a [TS]

  small place than that that Bob's around [TS]

  when somebody goes by in a boat huh [TS]

  but then I think I think Sleepless in [TS]

  Seattle changed it but also like lawyers [TS]

  are always looking to take something [TS]

  nice and make it bad but Peter still [TS]

  lives in one of these communities where [TS]

  everybody's like an old grouchy hippie [TS]

  and the people that own the the marina [TS]

  just rented a new end space so which did [TS]

  not what there were people already there [TS]

  that we're on the end seems like you [TS]

  want to promote from within it does but [TS]

  in this case they said as a pause yeah [TS]

  it's Paul island they said somebody came [TS]

  along and they want to pay a lot of [TS]

  money to be on the end the only true [TS]

  wealth is property and that's right like [TS]

  it's a view space and they built a three [TS]

  like some enormous because there are [TS]

  limits on how big your houseboat can be [TS]

  yeah that's your house yeah the Coast [TS]

  Guard says no no no you can't do that [TS]

  but they they went right up to the [TS]

  property line if you know what I'm [TS]

  saying on how big their houseboat could [TS]

  be and they plopped it down on the end [TS]

  that's all shame shame I know and the [TS]

  entire neighborhood is up in arms about [TS]

  it and by neighborhood I mean people in [TS]

  shacks but like yeah you could go have [TS]

  two Kajaki on that guy [TS]

  you know yeah oh you got are you you [TS]

  want to get along with your neighbors in [TS]

  an environment like that because a lot [TS]

  of things can go wrong if you know what [TS]

  I mean yeah but this guy doesn't care [TS]

  because he look he looks at all those [TS]

  people behind him and he just says you [TS]

  guys are us [TS]

  our gas OC of shingles laughing a [TS]

  floating loading and laughing and he's [TS]

  out there with the big view of the city [TS]

  and the people are mad but you know what [TS]

  capitalist shit dog [TS]

  so Pete and Peter's in there and he's [TS]

  just like look I'm living in an outhouse [TS]

  you got you know the my name is Paul on [TS]

  this between [TS]

  [Music] [TS]