0:00:01[Music]
0:00:05hello hi John
0:00:07hi Marilyn how's it going oh it's going
0:00:10okay
0:00:11you sound extra good today is that right
0:00:13what did you do some different uh you
0:00:17know I'm just working out all kinds of
0:00:19differences are you in the basement no
0:00:24you think you're gonna get past that
0:00:26groan buddy follow-up for you i I have I
0:00:31have now achieved a state where the
0:00:33basement is a constant sixty-five
0:00:35degrees which is very appealing on
0:00:37purpose yes well I it will never get it
0:00:41will never get nicer than that I'll take
0:00:43a 65 any day right oh god yes it's you
0:00:47know it used to be a root cellar and
0:00:48like a coal a coal hole toe hole and now
0:00:53it's you know now it's a constant
0:00:55temptation this for a long time I think
0:01:02I know what a root cellar is that's
0:01:04where you put like tubers you put up
0:01:08some tubers for winter is that what that
0:01:09means mm-hmm any other kind of things go
0:01:12you get a rutabaga I think that's that
0:01:14tuber I don't know it's it's one of
0:01:17those land vegetables yeah I mean I
0:01:19think you that's where you put your
0:01:21canning yeah put it up peaches yeah you
0:01:24put your peaches up it down in there I
0:01:26think well but maybe a root cellar is
0:01:27even even dark e'er and musty er than
0:01:31that all right I mean you throw your
0:01:34roots down in a in a in a bin right the
0:01:38roots always got a root bin I think it
0:01:40should have a bin in the cellar uh-huh
0:01:41and you don't in the ironical part is
0:01:43you don't really put them up put them
0:01:44down right but round you do a dog right
0:01:48but you put your peaches up pictures up
0:01:53roots down you put your pieces up on
0:01:56this on the shelf down in the cellar
0:01:59okay it's like the theme - it's like the
0:02:04the theme song to the yeah that was a
0:02:08Bo's a little wonderful reference I was
0:02:11about to
0:02:16potatoes turnips and carrots enough food
0:02:19supplies placed in the root cellar over
0:02:20the winter months include beets onions
0:02:21charters and jams salt meat salt turbo
0:02:24turbot turbo salt herring salt peanuts
0:02:27peanut winter squash and cabbage Oh
0:02:30single mention of a rutabaga No I see it
0:02:33has a root right in the name I think a
0:02:35rutabaga might be a vegetable capture
0:02:38I've never seen a rutabaga in use I
0:02:42think it might be a canary trap or a
0:02:44false flag when I see a rutabaga at the
0:02:46store no disrespect to it because I'm
0:02:48sure somebody is I'm sure that
0:02:49somebody's well one imagines that's
0:02:51somebody's favorite vegetable I don't
0:02:53know I wouldn't even know what part of
0:02:55it to eat it looks impregnable uh let's
0:02:58see rutabagas I feel like I went through
0:03:01a stew making phase mm-hmm and I feel
0:03:04like someone got me on a rutabaga tip
0:03:08[Music]
0:03:09and I think I put it in some stew I well
0:03:14it says here it's a cross between a
0:03:16cabbage and a turnip cabbage in a turn I
0:03:18don't know how you would even cross
0:03:20those things the roots yeah you just put
0:03:23a boy turnip and a girl cabbage in a
0:03:25room and get them vegetable husbandry
0:03:30you know you got to get them in the
0:03:32right state of mind I don't know much
0:03:33about husbandry it's never really
0:03:35appealed to me but you know you know
0:03:37we're too big you know meets a turnip
0:03:39come on I do I don't know it's one of
0:03:46those things we've talked about or is it
0:03:484-h is that the one it's kind of early
0:03:52and you know and what brings people to
0:03:54want to do that especially in areas with
0:03:58that are not strictly farm areas it's
0:04:00kind of like farm cosplay but with a
0:04:01cool jacket do you go to the State Fair
0:04:04No
0:04:07let's State Fair I mean what what I can
0:04:09tell you is that we went to many many
0:04:13fairs when I lived in Florida we would
0:04:15go to regional fairs I feel like I've
0:04:17been to the State Fair
0:04:18I was I was almost killed on two
0:04:20occasions by Bob Hope at the Ohio State
0:04:22Fair when I was a child
0:04:24really yeah I was almost hit by his
0:04:25limousine a new scene Bob Hope yeah yes
0:04:29his limousine I was running where I
0:04:30shouldn't be running bad on me I almost
0:04:33got hit by a limousine limousine goes by
0:04:35and I look in the back seat and I I
0:04:37exclaimed mr. hope young people I can
0:04:44appreciate how cool arguably this
0:04:49country's best-known most popular
0:04:51comedian in his day uh yeah I mean he's
0:04:55the he's the comedian he's the earth
0:04:59he's American the original Tom Hanks you
0:05:02know what I mean oh boy he's yeah golly
0:05:06Bob Hope
0:05:07you know I saw Count Basie at Disneyland
0:05:10and I thought that I had some real
0:05:11connection to her to to the real America
0:05:14well you almost got killed by Bob Hope
0:05:16hmm two times you say yeah I'm trying to
0:05:19remember I wrote it down I haven't
0:05:20thought about in a really long time but
0:05:22yeah yeah I was at the Ohio State Fair
0:05:23now I like us I like affair my ongoing
0:05:26favorite fair in Florida which is a lot
0:05:30of F's was the Strawberry Festival in
0:05:33Plant City where they celebrated the
0:05:36harvesting of strawberries and there
0:05:38were mini strawberry related first of
0:05:40all it was a generic you know a fair you
0:05:42could see like Night Ranger or a country
0:05:43band but you also like go make your own
0:05:46strawberry shortcake and I like anything
0:05:48with strawberries that's all hmm the
0:05:50doll which one guitar bishop you could
0:05:53make your own Strawberry Shortcake doll
0:05:54like a build-a-bear type situation yeah
0:05:56yeah no I don't think it was if they did
0:06:00you know they did not have the rights
0:06:02for it it was not a building or
0:06:03situation I see I think I've just I've
0:06:09been spending a lot of time on the
0:06:10internet lately and I'm coming back in
0:06:12this whole mode of like oh yeah people
0:06:14are just making making sex dolls for
0:06:17themselves based on just whatever
0:06:18whatever they want
0:06:20now oh because I would love to hear more
0:06:23about that is this like the anime guys
0:06:25with the pillows similar kind of thing I
0:06:27think so I think the technology you know
0:06:29now that China's gotten into the Game
0:06:31Boy it's just the whole the whole
0:06:33industry is exploded is it disrupting
0:06:35John
0:06:36I imagine if you wanted a Strawberry
0:06:38Shortcake doll in that style you could
0:06:40get one pretty cheaply you could you
0:06:43could probably Amazon Prime a pretty
0:06:46generic strawberry shortcake fuck-buddy
0:06:49but if you wanted a bespoke model with
0:06:51an articulating cake or one yeah one
0:06:56that looked like one that looked like a
0:06:59me or look like like like the lady from
0:07:03lost or something like that like if you
0:07:04had a real specific idea in mind which
0:07:06how you wanted your cake to be shorted
0:07:08you could probably you know what 3d 3d
0:07:10printing faces you could put on it
0:07:13people keep telling me people in the 3d
0:07:15printing world keep telling me that 3d
0:07:17printing is not not as greatest as we
0:07:19all want it to be yet well everybody
0:07:21sure talked about it for a while well
0:07:22they sure did but I was like hey I've
0:07:24got a thing that I want 3d printed and
0:07:26the answer was no no you can't that's
0:07:30that's not you can't do that yet and I
0:07:32was like well what about this simpler
0:07:33version of that no you can't really do
0:07:35that yet either oh I see so this is one
0:07:38of those this is like there's a little
0:07:42bit of a it's a teaser 3d printing you
0:07:44know you can sit around and think it's
0:07:46kind of like we first heard about the
0:07:47Internet you say VR or yeah every every
0:07:51three to eight years we hear how VR is
0:07:53really there yeah have you done a recent
0:07:56VR tour
0:07:57John I've never done a VR hi I there I
0:08:01have a couple of people here in Seattle
0:08:02is a big VR community and I went to one
0:08:05of the VR startups actually I shop here
0:08:11physically went there went there okay
0:08:14sat down in the chair a lot of people
0:08:16there a lot of lot of lot of people with
0:08:18mustaches a lot of people with topknots
0:08:21mm-hmm looking at their computers
0:08:24beavering away and they're like sitting
0:08:26the chair are you ready for this they
0:08:29put the whole apparatus on and and then
0:08:33I went through I went through a thing
0:08:34and it felt like I was I felt like I was
0:08:37at the IMAX at the Air and Space Museum
0:08:40in 1979 it was like and now we're flying
0:08:44and now we're going over a cliff
0:08:47I bet it I bet it can be really cool I
0:08:51mean I'm excited when any kind of
0:08:52technology is moving forward even if the
0:08:54tip of the iceberg that we see is kind
0:08:56of silly because the truth is that VR is
0:08:58gonna do lots of have lots of nice
0:09:00knock-on effects like you know it will
0:09:02get more powerful you know the things
0:09:04that as a result I have no desire to do
0:09:06that with that said if I go to a Disney
0:09:08property and I go in one of those or you
0:09:10know or Universal go I'll go on a Harry
0:09:12Potter ride and I don't think like it's
0:09:14amazing how you can trick my mind into
0:09:16thinking that I'm falling and I'm a
0:09:17little bit impressed by that yeah that
0:09:18is impressive I think that the I think
0:09:21AR is where I'm I'm excited hmm but
0:09:24anything that happens in VR I just feel
0:09:27like the that the if your body isn't
0:09:31engaged in it it's always just gonna be
0:09:35a show mm-hmm
0:09:36you're just gonna put it on the show
0:09:38damn it's a demo right if you're if
0:09:40you're not if you can't touch with your
0:09:41fingers and if you're not actually
0:09:43walking in the environment then it's
0:09:46yeah you're just sitting in a chair
0:09:48watching a thing and and no matter how
0:09:51realistic it is no matter how much
0:09:53you're like I'm going through the room
0:09:54it's like no matter how much you're
0:09:55playing mist you're never gonna be it
0:10:03you're never gonna get across that
0:10:07uncanny valley it's going to be more
0:10:09virtual than reality
0:10:10yeah whereas whereas a are really
0:10:12thrills me airs you know John I got to
0:10:15tell you there's all kinds of
0:10:16applications for AR and it is existing
0:10:18on your device like theirs is pretty
0:10:22weird and pretty cool I remember the
0:10:24very first time I used something like
0:10:25that that I can remember might have been
0:10:28at max fun con where I didn't want to be
0:10:31around people for a while and I went and
0:10:33I wandered around outside the property
0:10:35and I used the various sky apps which is
0:10:39really fun when it's in your somewhere
0:10:40dark with lots of stars like it really
0:10:41really works yeah that was the first
0:10:44time another time I had this really cool
0:10:45app that pulled information from
0:10:47Wikipedia and maybe Yelp but wherever
0:10:50you were you could hold up your phone
0:10:52and it would like show you the actual
0:10:53stuff I thought that was pretty clever I
0:10:55think there's an app and as of today or
0:10:57actually as of yesterday I got this app
0:10:59called tap measure which is
0:11:00a are measuring app for your phone we
0:11:03can look point it at the four corners of
0:11:04a device of an area and scans you could
0:11:07like cool the model of your whole room
0:11:09please I hope you see where I'm going
0:11:11with this I do I don't know if VR has a
0:11:13role in John's life right now
0:11:15I think AR I could think of several ways
0:11:17AR could have a huge role in your life
0:11:19right now somebody was just telling me
0:11:21about the about the about like some kind
0:11:25of little scanner in your phone a that
0:11:29would be based around maybe like a like
0:11:32a connects style I forget what those
0:11:35were called but like three-dimensional
0:11:36yeah special camera things that you
0:11:40would be able to stand in a room and the
0:11:41thing would just do measurements of your
0:11:43body and and then just throw that to
0:11:46custom clothing makers or it's like oh
0:11:49you want to order this shirt just put
0:11:51your camera in the corner and it'll scan
0:11:53your size
0:11:54yeah like Siri will this make me look
0:11:55dumpy yeah that would be so fresh I'm
0:11:59imagining your ongoing project - Museum
0:12:03of Phi your collections mmm I could see
0:12:07you doing an inventory of your current
0:12:09extant collection and being able to
0:12:11model that in various ways and I can
0:12:14certainly see how your podcast studio of
0:12:17the future in your root cellar like
0:12:18putting that together could be really
0:12:19useful you could you could like scan the
0:12:21room and decide where you want your
0:12:22captain's console to be in everything
0:12:24mmm just saying I now that I'm no longer
0:12:32now that I no longer have a
0:12:34non-disclosure agreement with snapchat
0:12:37mm-hmm
0:12:38ty can speak I never actually had one
0:12:42will you be harassed harassed born
0:12:45snapchat yeah well I don't know what you
0:12:48can say no no you know my millennial
0:12:52girl millennium girlfriend was a
0:12:53snapchat we were NDA of admitting that
0:12:55your millennium girlfriend worked a
0:12:57snapchat right right you're out of that
0:13:00officially you can say yeah I'm you know
0:13:04like time passages whoo-hoo buy me a
0:13:07ticket on the last plane home tonight
0:13:08that's right
0:13:10and so so now when I reflect
0:13:13back on my snapchat years on my home and
0:13:16my time in the trenches there was nap
0:13:19death I you know I was in a very
0:13:22privileged position prior to the release
0:13:25of the snapchat glasses you may remember
0:13:30this was a big event mm-hmm in remember
0:13:34rare as hen's teeth very hard behind
0:13:36that's right
0:13:37that's right yeah Matt how we even sent
0:13:39me an email during the during the
0:13:41excitement is he gonna use it to open
0:13:43his garage door he said what do I have
0:13:47to do to get a pair of those glasses you
0:13:50know within that that first week of just
0:13:52like they were they were $1,500 a pair
0:13:55you know they were just going crazy you
0:13:57did you find my like a vending machine
0:13:58yeah you couldn't get him anywhere
0:14:00except these vending machines and
0:14:01snapchat would put of any machine
0:14:04somewhere and not tell anybody and then
0:14:05it was just like oh there's a vending
0:14:07machine over there and you know they had
0:14:09this whole this is guy but most
0:14:10millennium thing ever real $1500 camera
0:14:15glasses stands yeah and you could only
0:14:17buy I think you could buy two that was
0:14:20you were you could go to the machine you
0:14:22could buy two and then it was done and
0:14:25so during the run-up to the glasses
0:14:28right I mean my lady was the lawyer
0:14:31there and she she was the lawyer of the
0:14:34labs that were developing the
0:14:37technologies of the glasses and stuff
0:14:39not not app side but like real world
0:14:42side so these glasses we're all talking
0:14:45about these glasses it's all Jewish
0:14:47nobody can talk about it and little by
0:14:50little like the glasses start to what
0:14:52they are and what they're intended to do
0:14:53start to trickle to me I can sight I see
0:14:57a prototype of them I'm you know that
0:15:00like millennium girlfriend has a pair
0:15:03all of a sudden and we're playing with
0:15:05them and this is you know a long time
0:15:07before it's it can be talked about and I
0:15:10got really excited about it at the
0:15:12beginning at the with the teaser because
0:15:14I thought of course this is this is the
0:15:18beginning of real useful AR it's gonna
0:15:22be glasses where you put them on and it
0:15:25puts snapchat filters on people in real
0:15:28it was just like this is gonna be so
0:15:30killer I be thinking about stuff like
0:15:32can I like my money ever since I was a
0:15:34kid I've always thought no I think it's
0:15:35a terrible idea
0:15:36but when I was a kid I thought it'd be
0:15:37cool if we were always recording
0:15:39everything that we see and you'd go like
0:15:40oh what's that really Craig T Nelson I
0:15:42saw at the airport let me roll that back
0:15:44you know that outrunning is that way
0:15:45it's not what that person said three and
0:15:47you could go back to Google but I'm
0:15:49still like just the ability to have
0:15:50these little round glasses with a camera
0:15:52in I mean you could just you be snapping
0:15:53and shining like all the time well when
0:15:55when google glass came out my friend
0:15:57dave miner who owns that bar i've taken
0:16:00you there the five point here in seattle
0:16:02they put up a very conspicuous sign that
0:16:04said no Google glass allowed in the bar
0:16:06it was part of their overall policy to
0:16:09be like as punk as punk as possible at
0:16:12all times but that got into the funk
0:16:15rockin prohibiting things with signs and
0:16:33so but then as it got closer and closer
0:16:36rights now these these specs it was
0:16:39clear it was clear as they got closer to
0:16:42being released that they didn't do
0:16:43anything they were just they were very
0:16:45cool looking glasses I have to say
0:16:48nothing all they did was just take like
0:16:5230-second snaps and you couldn't even
0:16:55see it didn't there was no playback
0:16:57mechanism it was just a little tiny
0:16:58camera in the corner of some sunglasses
0:16:59oh it's a thin client eyeglass yeah to
0:17:03your device you got the earth it there
0:17:05that's right and then it then it's on
0:17:07your phone and then you can post it or
0:17:08whatever but it wasn't it didn't have
0:17:10any the glasses themselves did did zilch
0:17:13basically it was just like holding a
0:17:15phone up to here to the side of your
0:17:17head and and I guess it was cool if you
0:17:19wanted if you were somebody that wanted
0:17:21to snapchat yourself like skiing off a
0:17:23buffle mobile or something but otherwise
0:17:25most people just hold up their phone and
0:17:28you couldn't selfie which was the number
0:17:29one thing that made snapchat interesting
0:17:31to people so that would do some
0:17:35acrobatic glassware couldn't do it right
0:17:37you have to have your friend selfie to
0:17:39snap you and you press snap your friend
0:17:40and that's not
0:17:41how snapchat even worked it wasn't meant
0:17:43to be like that kind of thing so anyway
0:17:46there was this huge roll out and and
0:17:49millennium girlfriend and I actually
0:17:51went to New York City for the big
0:17:53rollout and there was a pop-up store
0:17:57that they built right next to Apple the
0:18:00Apple store across the street from
0:18:02Central Park and it was like all secret
0:18:06and covered in scaffolding and we went
0:18:09there the night before and it was a big
0:18:12big empty cold empty room and at the
0:18:18very end of this cold empty room was
0:18:20this little vending machine that looked
0:18:23like a Pokemon and it was a cutest
0:18:27little vending machine in the world and
0:18:29you kind of walk up to it and there's a
0:18:30computer screen on it it sees you and
0:18:33it's like hi and you're like hi and it
0:18:37says do you want these things and you're
0:18:39like I really do and then it like you
0:18:42have a little fun that fun moment with
0:18:44it and it gives you the little things
0:18:45which are beautiful and they're in a
0:18:48little case that's beautiful everything
0:18:50about it was beautiful they just didn't
0:18:53do anything and so then it was release
0:18:58day and there's this line down the block
0:19:02and like Kanye's managers there and and
0:19:07and it's just this whole big scene and
0:19:10everybody's trying to everybody's
0:19:11clapping for these things and they're on
0:19:13the internet I swear to you they were
0:19:14like $1,500 a pair and I'm getting
0:19:18emails from that how you right and left
0:19:19and I I went with my lady to the event
0:19:24and she's there kind of lawyering around
0:19:26and then someone says - oh oh oh and
0:19:30they're like tons and tons of him
0:19:32snapchat employees there and they're all
0:19:35they're all super casual but when you
0:19:37when you really know the deal like their
0:19:39t-shirt and jeans like cost $1500 each
0:19:43or whatever I mean it's like very very
0:19:45tech
0:19:47check up cool up down cool huh
0:19:50everybody's got a headset on they all
0:19:52have little hear pieces and microphones
0:19:54and the word gets to us like do you guys
0:19:57want to go in the line up to the machine
0:19:59do you guys want to get some specs
0:20:02yourself and we looked at each other and
0:20:04we were like sure you know like yeah of
0:20:07course we get it we get to go up there
0:20:09too because they were it was a embargo
0:20:11right you couldn't employees the
0:20:13snapchat did not get these things for
0:20:15free this was like sometimes he would
0:20:17drop and when I say he I mean whoever
0:20:20the kid is that runs snapchat who's like
0:20:2128 years old todd todd snap todd snap
0:20:26right the todd snap of the of the east
0:20:28coast naps he would put these little
0:20:32snapchat machines like in the Mojave
0:20:34Desert or he'd drop one into the Amazon
0:20:36it was like what are you gonna do now
0:20:38there's there these are available but
0:20:41only at this thing that's like up the
0:20:44Amazon River Todd understands scarcity
0:20:46and welcome to the machine and like all
0:20:55eyes are on us right people have been
0:20:57waiting all day to get in this and we're
0:20:59like we've cut ahead in the line and
0:21:01it's cold warehouse and people are
0:21:02standing on looking at us and we walked
0:21:04up to the machine and big big
0:21:17peanutbutter jars full of quarters
0:21:22but we walk up when we're looking at it
0:21:24we're talking to the machine machines
0:21:26like hey you know what's up and we're
0:21:29like oh man you know we can pick a
0:21:32couple of different colors and we have
0:21:34some decisions to make like which colors
0:21:36do we want or and she and I are looking
0:21:38at each other and we're like ah well we
0:21:40should get some for this person and that
0:21:43person and and we both kind of just
0:21:48arrived at this moment like I don't I
0:21:51don't really want one of these to you
0:21:55know not interrupt but this is after
0:21:58having played with the prototypes and
0:22:00the emerging you know already had
0:22:02experience with these things as it was
0:22:04getting prototyped and in the like three
0:22:07days leading up to the release of the
0:22:09thing we had been walking around
0:22:11Manhattan wearing them okay almost like
0:22:13you got like a demo from Apple like you
0:22:14got this unit to try out but it wasn't
0:22:16gonna be yours to keep
0:22:17yeah and it was it was like you know
0:22:19we'd walk a we'd walk around with these
0:22:21things on until we saw somebody looking
0:22:24at us like some young person who was
0:22:27like oh my god are those and then we
0:22:30would quickly take them off and like run
0:22:32away like run down the steps of the
0:22:34subway to like because we were the
0:22:36Beatles in 64 mm-hmm
0:22:38you'd be set upon by top nuts that's
0:22:39right and we ended up not we ended up
0:22:45like standing there and basically the
0:22:48only thing we could think of is well we
0:22:50could really we could if we if we bought
0:22:52a bunch of these we could go turn them
0:22:53on the internet real fast and it was
0:22:55like well yeah that's not really who we
0:22:57are either so so that was an example of
0:23:00a tech moment in recent days where I
0:23:03felt like super excited about what a
0:23:06thing could be and then as the thing got
0:23:10closer and closer to real it was it was
0:23:13clearer and clearer this is not gonna be
0:23:17this isn't gonna be cool at all this is
0:23:19just gonna be a this is like us this is
0:23:21a thing that is going to lay the
0:23:23groundwork for someone else to come
0:23:25along yeah and do the thing which we all
0:23:27know is coming which is to make a Google
0:23:31glass that looks cool
0:23:34like from what Google glass is that it
0:23:37was a good idea that wasn't very
0:23:39functional yet Turkey and a little bit
0:23:41of its time right
0:23:43the thing about snap glass was they
0:23:45looked SuperDuper cool and did zilch now
0:23:50we're still waiting for someone to come
0:23:52out with a with a glasses that looks
0:23:54cool that can also do things and and the
0:23:58day it happens man
0:23:59somebody's gonna somebody's gonna get to
0:24:02be a rich person they're gonna get to
0:24:03put their vending machine in the Amazon
0:24:05mm-hm
0:24:06I got a lot of thoughts on that are you
0:24:10ready I mean are you ready not that
0:24:13interesting are you ready there's a
0:24:17couple things with that I mean you know
0:24:20any time some new thing comes along and
0:24:22I haven't prepared anything for this but
0:24:23I'm thinking about like how like for
0:24:26example for a long time a lot of people
0:24:27have said I really hope Apple makes a
0:24:30real like not just Apple TV the set-top
0:24:32device but I really hope Apple makes a
0:24:33TV and like I don't I'm on the infinite
0:24:37timescale as John siracusa says yeah
0:24:39sure that could happen but like really
0:24:41do you really want that like I want
0:24:43fewer things that have to be this one
0:24:46way I mean think about the way that your
0:24:48phone went from being something that was
0:24:50a flip phone that had phone numbers and
0:24:53the game snake on it to being something
0:24:54where you could put your own put apps on
0:24:56there that did lots of stuff and now it
0:24:58became not a dumb device that's a very
0:25:00smart device but the smartness of the
0:25:02device came out of what you were able to
0:25:03put on this really top-notch thing that
0:25:06you were was a pleasure to use even
0:25:08without apps the problem is that would
0:25:09you ever just buy those round glasses
0:25:11with a little camera on it no I mean
0:25:12like which what you want is you want
0:25:14something bigger out of that so I mean
0:25:16the the real real technology it seems
0:25:19like it's gonna be more like a sci-fi
0:25:20contact lens type situation where you
0:25:23take whatever glasses you already have a
0:25:25fix this almost impossibly tiny dingus
0:25:28to it and get all of the functionality
0:25:29out of that without needing to have
0:25:31dorky glasses that have a camera built
0:25:32into them I know that's very you know
0:25:34future stuff but that's that's when
0:25:36you'll know it's arrived I mean you have
0:25:38to go through these stages of
0:25:39awkwardness you have to learn what
0:25:41doesn't work you have to learn you know
0:25:43just
0:25:44just the component parts get cheaper or
0:25:46more powerful all that changes I don't
0:25:48know I'm just I'm always skeptical with
0:25:49the first version of anything not
0:25:51because I think it's a bad idea but
0:25:53because like just what you described
0:25:54which is there's so much stuff out there
0:25:56I'm excited about it arrives and it's
0:25:58fun for 90 minutes and you know this is
0:26:01this is a gizmo this is a gadget it's a
0:26:03fun thing but like this is not gonna be
0:26:04part of my life yet you were an early
0:26:07adopter of the Apple watch Amira correct
0:26:09early ish
0:26:11I'm trying to think of what I was a
0:26:12really early adopter of podcasts
0:26:14probably but yeah as far as technology
0:26:16you were early on Twitter ly on Twitter
0:26:19but as far as like the hardware stuff
0:26:21okay look at it this way talk about
0:26:22watches I've had like I don't wear
0:26:24watches alright but I got like a sleep
0:26:27watch where of course I'm obsessed with
0:26:30my sleep and have another friend of mine
0:26:31who was also obsessed with this sleep
0:26:33talked about this watch he can get and
0:26:34it was so dorky I mean it look it looked
0:26:37like now I got not even as cool as a
0:26:40dive watch but it was like having like
0:26:42at the box from an engagement ring on
0:26:45your wrist all the time was just this
0:26:47huge ungainly thing and then when you
0:26:50were when you woke up in the morning he
0:26:51said I've got sleeping then you would go
0:26:53and attach it via USB to your computer
0:26:55and it would suck down that information
0:26:57into a terrible app and like okay that's
0:27:00it you know it was like a Palm Pilot for
0:27:02sleep in some ways whereas now today I
0:27:04have a Fitbit that automatically detects
0:27:06when I go to sleep it automatically yeah
0:27:08yeah and no one's talking about my sleep
0:27:10at some point but ya know it does all
0:27:12that automatically now and it's it's
0:27:14it's it's fine
0:27:16early adaptors of stuff I've bought a
0:27:18lot of digital cameras over time yeah
0:27:21yeah I love you know I remember yeah
0:27:24when I first met you it was kind of like
0:27:26when I was really getting into this
0:27:27whole the whole stack of like digital
0:27:30camera plus flicker as a thing and I
0:27:32really that was in Flickr was a really
0:27:34fun community and a great app a great
0:27:37site and so that was a nice thing you
0:27:39were an early adopter of LiveJournal I
0:27:42was I loved LiveJournal yeah but I'd
0:27:44look at it's funny now I look at photos
0:27:46even of like around the time most
0:27:48certainly stuff I took on my first
0:27:51digital camera in 1999 is Halle Larry
0:27:53yes like pictures of my now wife and me
0:27:55around the time I first got a digital
0:27:57camera
0:27:58and if they're just they're just like a
0:27:59colorful smudge it's it's so weird I
0:28:02mean and you know this there's a
0:28:03services that'll like seho you know
0:28:05here's photos you took this many years
0:28:07ago and even photos taken during my
0:28:08daughter's lifetime I can't believe the
0:28:09difference in quality I'm not sure where
0:28:11I'm going with this I haven't been an
0:28:13early adopter of that that many things
0:28:15you did so many great Charles Peterson
0:28:18style camera effects with your digital
0:28:21Rockefeller filters long before filters
0:28:26existed I know I have some great photos
0:28:29there's a picture of me with some
0:28:30chopsticks in San Francisco holding up
0:28:33some kind of beam and you have digitally
0:28:36smeared it with light and it's like so
0:28:39cool or there's a picture of Madeline
0:28:40and me talking at pictures of your mom
0:28:44that way it was when you guys were doing
0:28:53your little inside Seattle mini tour for
0:28:56probably putting the days to bed and we
0:28:58all in Josh and Emily know some of your
0:29:04dad high-quality hang time with your dad
0:29:08at I think a Death Cab show you guys
0:29:16don't realize that that the first
0:29:18contact I had with you was contacted I
0:29:21don't think you were I I'm not a hundred
0:29:24percent sure that you even were aware of
0:29:28it was I mean I know you were aware of
0:29:30it but I don't think when we actually
0:29:32met in person that we made the
0:29:33connection right away which was that a
0:29:36kid came up to me in Boston stocking no
0:29:42he said hold this bag of booty Dan that
0:29:47would be my friend Dan he put some booty
0:29:48in your hand and we took a photo yeah
0:29:50little Dan in Boston who was a sweet guy
0:29:53and he would come in at the time and now
0:29:58he's a big boy yeah he was he was little
0:30:01then and he was one of the he was one of
0:30:03the mafia of indie rockers that would
0:30:05come to to all indie rock shows yes but
0:30:09he was like put this hold this
0:30:11Pirate's Booty I want to take a picture
0:30:12for you for a friend of mine in San
0:30:14Francisco has a blog of rock musicians
0:30:17holding piracy serves you had short hair
0:30:20and no beard at the time look I looked
0:30:22like I was 17 yeah and I'm like scallop
0:30:25I look like a scallop and I'm holding
0:30:27this pirates booty with this big dumb
0:30:29smile of like okay because that was what
0:30:32the internet was to me at the time it
0:30:33was just like idea what the yeah I was
0:30:38like okay so a guy in San Francisco
0:30:40Boston our friends first of all and you
0:30:45send him these pictures and he puts them
0:30:47on the Internet okay and so I see that
0:30:51picture pop up for once one I'm like oh
0:30:53yeah that was really like I honestly did
0:30:56think that the internet was a was just
0:30:58some kind of like a message board for
0:31:01nerds sharing this type of thing and
0:31:04then when I met you which wasn't that
0:31:07much longer some I remember having a
0:31:10conversation where you were like oh yeah
0:31:12you're in the Pirate's Booty this and I
0:31:16was like that's you here we got David
0:31:20Cross we got Mac from Superchunk we got
0:31:24my dog let's see I think Matthew cause
0:31:27is in here somewhere
0:31:28sure I'm sure all of the extant long
0:31:32winters at the time are in here my
0:31:34friend Matt the surfer oh yeah these are
0:31:37good these are good good photos our is
0:31:40Flickr still available to people can
0:31:43people stay dude yeah I mean what
0:31:46happened why didn't they
0:31:47why didn't they become the future it's a
0:31:52long story I mean I think the the
0:31:55shortage all there's so many cute
0:31:56pictures with dogs - these are so cute
0:31:58I'll see if I can find yours in here
0:32:00well you know they got bought up by the
0:32:03Yahoo oh look
0:32:04oh it's Jay from Sloan and there's Matt
0:32:06from orange er there's Chris from Sloan
0:32:08this is good these are good photos
0:32:10property look I should close this Oh
0:32:13somebody put it in Mayor Fiorello statue
0:32:15hands look at that you know I think I
0:32:17bought by Yahoo and everything was fine
0:32:18for a while and then they got kind of
0:32:20under indie resourced and
0:32:23when actually visited with did a little
0:32:25mini talk with the Flickr group after
0:32:28the acquisition and they were still like
0:32:30so game and they were trying so hard but
0:32:33there's no wood behind the arrow you
0:32:35know what's your part of the the big
0:32:37company it's it's hard and it's it sucks
0:32:40cuz it was such a great app it was so
0:32:41fun to use and it really was like a
0:32:42little community like it was one of
0:32:44those rare things where like at the
0:32:46beginning this is so fucking boring at
0:32:47the beginning of that kind of exciting
0:32:48web 2.0 era there was like all these
0:32:50great little things that people would
0:32:51get on and it was actually useful and
0:32:52actually fun and he actually would meet
0:32:54people through it you know like Mike
0:32:55livejournal which is a very web 1.0 but
0:32:58I'll find that photo for you it's cut
0:33:00beer I got to close that tab though cuz
0:33:01I'm looking all these old pictures and
0:33:02boy the photos are terrible cameras used
0:33:05to be bad yeah yeah yeah they were
0:33:07terrible they were terrible terrible
0:33:08terrible yeah the first digital camera I
0:33:11ever saw was at a restaurant in Seattle
0:33:14where I used to go to get late-night
0:33:16stroganoff and this was during that
0:33:19phase where you know when I was a little
0:33:21kid when I was a kid I loved stroganoff
0:33:23because stroganoff was made with
0:33:24hamburger and cream of mushroom soup
0:33:28that was back when America understood
0:33:30how to make garbage food for kids
0:33:33Campbell Soup Company they really got
0:33:35behind that they said look there's stuff
0:33:37you could do with our soup that you have
0:33:38not even thought about yet yeah throw
0:33:40some hamburger in it and then put it
0:33:42over noodles now where are we
0:33:43yes we're somewhere we're somewhere
0:33:45further down the road better well so I
0:33:49started going to restaurants at that at
0:33:51that a magical age when I could suddenly
0:33:53afford to buy not just tacos grant
0:33:57because I had a job and I could go to
0:33:59places in the 11 o'clock at night that
0:34:01were open and I could order things that
0:34:03I wanted and I saw stroganoff on the
0:34:04menu and I was like ambrosia stroganoff
0:34:07and it showed up and it was flank steak
0:34:10and onions cooked and put over noodles
0:34:13huh and here's the thing that you don't
0:34:15want which is a long cooked onion over a
0:34:18plate of noodles because a onion a
0:34:22cooked onion looks like a noodle I don't
0:34:24think that's anybody's favorite food no
0:34:26no and it was there it was an early
0:34:28experience of the over fanciful of
0:34:32things and I realized that Oh strong
0:34:35enough I guess this is how well
0:34:37originally and maybe the hamburger
0:34:39version was an abomination but this is
0:34:42way worse and but I loved stroganoff I
0:34:45thought and so I spent years eating
0:34:47flank steak stroganoff but dreaming of
0:34:52hamburger stroganoff and now I'm finally
0:34:55at the age where I can just go back and
0:34:57eat bean casserole and hamburger
0:34:59stroganoff and nobody can tell me
0:35:00different uh-huh
0:35:01it's like I can I can have cafeteria
0:35:04food for the rest of my life and people
0:35:05are people yell at me they yell at me
0:35:07with their eyes I was at a party the
0:35:10other day and I was like so I get up in
0:35:12the morning oh they were like tell me
0:35:13about how do you do a podcast and I said
0:35:15well what I do is I get up in the
0:35:16morning i microwave a cup of coffee and
0:35:18I go talk to my friends and they were
0:35:21like it was a it was a husband and wife
0:35:23and they both like took a small step
0:35:25back and we're like microwave your
0:35:27coffee I was like oh don't get me
0:35:29started there we go i microwave my
0:35:31coffee I have a little I've been I
0:35:32microwave some hamburger stroganoff
0:35:34mm-hmm I sit and sit on the front seat
0:35:37of my dad's car which is like a couch
0:35:39sigh mm-hmm go to the State Fair
0:35:43you know borders I blame the internet oh
0:35:45as with so many things I blame the
0:35:47internet I was thinking about this today
0:35:48and it lots of people lots of old men
0:35:50have talked about this you kind of
0:35:51there's a part of you that pines for a
0:35:54time when you could be at a party or a
0:35:58dinner or waiting for a bus and have an
0:36:00argument not an argument but a you know
0:36:02an argument with somebody about what the
0:36:03same thing existed no no yeah yeah and
0:36:09and there was not really a way to
0:36:10resolve it it's like well you're not
0:36:11gonna get on a bus and go to the library
0:36:13and go to famous firsts look you're not
0:36:17gonna go like looking at encyclopedia
0:36:18you can't cuz you got to go on your
0:36:19goddamn bus and like this is why this is
0:36:22I'm sorry to interrupt this is why the
0:36:24Guinness Book of World Records existence
0:36:26no I know Robert Doyle Hughes but go on
0:36:30and now today you can like before
0:36:33somebody's done having their out of
0:36:35nowhere reckon about something somebody
0:36:36else has already looked it up and you
0:36:38can say no no no no no you know but like
0:36:40the other side of that is back in the
0:36:42day you could also get a bike a party
0:36:44from a bunch of people who thought that
0:36:45no you're doing stroganoff wrong so I
0:36:47guess now you you know as the aggrieved
0:36:50party you could
0:36:50pull up your phone and say no no there
0:36:52are many kinds of strokes and struggles
0:36:54off like I can do this anyway this is
0:36:56this is my house it's a land of
0:37:00contrasts but I do kind of Miss the the
0:37:02unknowability of things yeah yeah well I
0:37:06do too but I had a I had a interesting
0:37:09insight not very long ago which was that
0:37:14my dad being the greatest generation
0:37:16sons ever ever of all time born in 1921
0:37:21he and his cohort which includes Sammy
0:37:27Davis jr. well let's can enjoy that and
0:37:30John F Kennedy what about Johnny Carson
0:37:32we be part of that cohort Johnny Carson
0:37:34absolutely part of that cohort they
0:37:37continued to be the prime movers of the
0:37:41culture I would say all the way through
0:37:46the Beatles all the way until about well
0:37:51until about 1968 and we like to look
0:37:55back and think oh you know from the
0:37:57Beatles on it was the youth or even from
0:38:00Elvis on it was the youth of America and
0:38:02rock-and-roll but those people were just
0:38:04children in terms of the culture who was
0:38:07really driving the cultural the culture
0:38:10and it was only in about the late 60s
0:38:13where the were kids in college and their
0:38:16protests and the
0:38:18you know and the fact that that the the
0:38:21liberal dream of my dad's generation
0:38:24which was Kennedy Martin Luther King LBJ
0:38:27all of that stuff all everybody was
0:38:30killed basically and then it right about
0:38:33the late 60s right about 1970 the
0:38:36Greatest Generation just lost the just
0:38:39steering wheel got taken from them and
0:38:41my dad was you know an absolute like as
0:38:44far left as you could be but it took him
0:38:46several years to get to an understanding
0:38:50that you could protest against the the
0:38:53army being in Vietnam he was just he it
0:38:57had never occurred to anybody of his
0:38:58generation to be against the way we see
0:39:02played out in episode 9 I believe it is
0:39:04of the the Vietnam War series that I've
0:39:06now watched twice where like it was it
0:39:09was pretty awkward and pretty weird
0:39:10especially after the Veterans Against
0:39:13the War March when things got further
0:39:15radicalized and they found themselves
0:39:16that they were that even though the tide
0:39:18of opinion across the nation was turning
0:39:20against the war now they were like
0:39:22radicalizing everybody by saying oh no
0:39:24but you're doing this protest wrong like
0:39:28it was it must have been hard to know
0:39:29like what kind of footing to find at
0:39:31that time well my mom was against the
0:39:33war from the very beginning and it was a
0:39:34contention between it was a contention
0:39:37within their marriage but you know they
0:39:38were like that was the way liberals
0:39:40words the way liberals still are right
0:39:42she was like against the war and dad was
0:39:45like he can't be against the war it's
0:39:47the United States of America mm-hmm
0:39:50but you know my dad's first wife this is
0:39:52a little-known story in my family my
0:39:55dad's first wife who is the mother of my
0:39:57older brothers and sister at one point
0:40:00my dad was running for like a major
0:40:04position in the Washington State
0:40:05Democratic Party and his wife Jean
0:40:11decided to run against him forgotten
0:40:17this is good if you can imagine what it
0:40:20was like around the dinner table between
0:40:22those was he already declared and
0:40:23running and then he was running and then
0:40:27she was like I don't think so and threw
0:40:29her hat in the ring and this was like
0:40:35what this was this was how well their
0:40:37marriage didn't work out it happens but
0:40:40they were married for eight years or
0:40:41something eight nine years that's that's
0:40:42not nothing
0:40:43not nothing considering that she's
0:40:45running against you in you know Chia and
0:40:47she ran it she ran at him from the left
0:40:49to I mean he was the he thought he was a
0:40:53wall he didn't see that coming oh no you
0:40:55never see it you never see it coming
0:40:56when they run at you from the left not
0:40:59when you think you're a good liberal but
0:41:02one of the things that that one of the
0:41:03insights that I had was in 1968 my dad
0:41:09was 47 right so 1970 he was my age 49
0:41:15oh my god and that was the moment that
0:41:19he and his friends finally just the
0:41:22culture just went past them and from
0:41:25that point on the be the the baby
0:41:28boomers were determining what the what
0:41:30the dialectic was and the the greatest
0:41:35generation just gradually had to cede
0:41:38that they were no longer I mean they
0:41:43could you could get hip but you no
0:41:45longer were really laying it out there
0:41:48and it seems like like I guess this
0:41:51happens a lot but it was so so clear in
0:41:54such stark relief then like you like any
0:41:56American you still get a vote on what
0:41:57this stuff is but you don't have this
0:41:59veto power or like utter primacy of
0:42:02opinion anymore that like there's a lot
0:42:04of people that don't aren't going to
0:42:06automatically agree with you because
0:42:07you're from the greatest generation
0:42:08right are you because you're the dads or
0:42:11the moms right and Carson retained his
0:42:14cultural presence but but you see him
0:42:20even turn throughout the 70s into
0:42:23somebody that when Dean Martin was on
0:42:27the show Carson was real comfortable and
0:42:30then he would have young people on and
0:42:32just sort of be like so what are you
0:42:35folks all you know what are you kids
0:42:36doing today it wasn't so far off Tiny
0:42:39Tim I mean he's a little bit like you're
0:42:40having these people on as a curiosity
0:42:42yeah right and and Dick Cavett was more
0:42:45you know was more on the street
0:42:47although whatever but but but that's the
0:42:52age that we are now you and I mm-hmm and
0:42:55unfortunately because Generation X was
0:42:58so small we never had we never had the
0:43:03feeling that like we were making the
0:43:05culture really the same no one has
0:43:08really cared what we think never never
0:43:11cared the the baby boomers alone the
0:43:13thing that's wrong per se but like
0:43:17there's not that many generations that
0:43:18should have the right to be a listen
0:43:20really nobody cared nobody cared no we
0:43:22were just too small and we were just we
0:43:24were too even from an early age we were
0:43:27too resigned
0:43:28just like her losers but but this this
0:43:32feeling now of being 49 and looking and
0:43:34saying like oh it doesn't matter it
0:43:36doesn't matter whether I'm for or
0:43:38against the war it's just and it's not
0:43:41like you go out to pasture but you
0:43:42definitely feel like you I mean it's not
0:43:46even that I hand over the reins I never
0:43:48had the reins you never had the reins
0:43:49it's just like you watch the reins get
0:43:51handed over in front of you and you're
0:43:53like I didn't even get to touch the
0:43:54reins I'm we're like the Prince Charles
0:43:56of cultures it's just like I've been
0:44:00sitting here in my double-breasted
0:44:01jacket until the sleeves are all frayed
0:44:04waiting to be king even for a minute
0:44:08you know my daughter has actually asked
0:44:10about that she's because it's really
0:44:12interesting to think about this man's in
0:44:13his 70s at this point right
0:44:15hmm it's like and she's what 90
0:44:17something
0:44:18yeah always the always a prince bride
0:44:21never never another Queen Queen Queen
0:44:25Mother right to being queen mother no
0:44:30who is it who's the lead son right Bob
0:44:37Bob brick King Bob he the the son the
0:44:42number one son top son is very handsome
0:44:46mm-hmm and then he's surprisingly I
0:44:49think lost his hair and everybody was he
0:44:51looks a lot like his beautiful mother
0:44:53but with a receding hairline yeah it's a
0:44:55shame it has receded all the way pretty
0:44:57much but it did it at a young age when
0:45:00he still was you know when he still was
0:45:02so beautiful that sucks and he didn't do
0:45:05it Donald Trump where he was just like
0:45:07you know what I'm gonna be standing out
0:45:08in front of an airplane a lot for the
0:45:10next several years where my hair is
0:45:12gonna be blown all around so I'm gonna
0:45:15just I'm gonna be President baseball I'm
0:45:17gonna make oh yeah or you're gonna
0:45:19become president pastry hair well he was
0:45:22always pastry hair guy right but he
0:45:23became president and eight ball hat
0:45:26pretty early on that's smart you think
0:45:28that was a logistical decision based on
0:45:29planes planes and helicopters sure
0:45:31because you're standing around you can't
0:45:33I mean in the past he was photographed
0:45:36always under his own conditions and he
0:45:39could have three people like
0:45:41the closet spring lacquer on him mm-hmm
0:45:44but I think I think early on he was
0:45:46standing out on a tarmac somewhere while
0:45:48the plane was winding up and his hair
0:45:50was standing straight up like this like
0:45:52a sailfish you may not be aware that I
0:45:55collect and curate photographs
0:45:57unflattering photographs of the
0:45:59president no it was in the early days of
0:46:03the whatever this is we're going through
0:46:07it became I have several small forms of
0:46:10therapy that are mostly just for me and
0:46:12one of them was every time I find a
0:46:14really good unflattering photo and a lot
0:46:16of them are him and his his his giant
0:46:18ass playing golf but I do have a few of
0:46:20his hair giving up the ghost a little
0:46:23bit and not like a lot of guys with that
0:46:26kind of pastry hair he has some bits
0:46:28that are very very long and once they
0:46:30come away from the primary case they're
0:46:33way up there you can see him get caught
0:46:38a little bit in like in like minor
0:46:41tornadoes where the hair is like not
0:46:42only up but it's also sort of twisting
0:46:44to see how I mean there's some things we
0:46:47know and some things we can guess about
0:46:48the man we can we it is believed that he
0:46:52has some kind of apparent anxiety about
0:46:57stairs hmm this is fairly widely
0:47:00documented has not been proven but he
0:47:02has for years he's been tweeting about
0:47:04how President Obama should use the
0:47:06handrail when he gets off Air Force One
0:47:07that it's very unsafe he's got some
0:47:10hangups and I think one of them is
0:47:11stairs so we know he doesn't like stairs
0:47:12we know it doesn't like wind he's got a
0:47:15low center of gravity he should be
0:47:17pretty good on stairs yeah I think he
0:47:19doesn't trust his tiny feet I think he's
0:47:20afraid he's gonna go ass over teakettle
0:47:22but like shit think about getting on and
0:47:24off of planes it must be such a
0:47:25stressful thing and yet lately he's been
0:47:27doing more and more of those screaming
0:47:28over the helicopter blades sound a
0:47:30little mini press conferences so he must
0:47:32have found something that is working for
0:47:33him I feel like the who I mean just the
0:47:38like small power of the presidency which
0:47:42is no small power right but the small
0:47:44power to just be ferried everywhere by
0:47:46helicopter and like Air Force One even
0:47:48even though Air Force one is probably
0:47:50decorated atrociously and he's not
0:47:52helping
0:47:53I can imagine that they have they have
0:47:56probably screwed some chandeliers into
0:47:58the ceiling of Air Force One we're just
0:48:01not seeing it yet imagine it being like
0:48:02the Duke in a number one king of New
0:48:06York oh yeah let's go he's got like a
0:48:08chandelier on his limo but I was just in
0:48:16DC the other day and some minor minor
0:48:19minor dignitary drove by in with a
0:48:23police escort and I think it was a
0:48:25caravan of like two SUVs and I
0:48:28speculated too there was somebody
0:48:30standing on the street corner and as you
0:48:32know on the East Coast nobody likes
0:48:34being addressed more than just an East
0:48:37Coaster standing waiting for a light by
0:48:39a by a stranger like hey who do you
0:48:41think is in that Caravan that's anything
0:48:44and the local guy was like I don't know
0:48:46man and then the light changed and I was
0:48:49like well that hey great talk mm-hmm but
0:48:51I was trying to think like who gets a
0:48:54minor league police escort like that
0:48:56like you know it wasn't super minor
0:48:59league it was four cops - at each corner
0:49:01and they were getting to run lights
0:49:03maybe somebody from Congress uh well
0:49:06somebody else I think overheard me talk
0:49:09to mr. guy who then split and I think
0:49:13over my shoulder they said might be Paul
0:49:15Ryan and I was like huh Paul Ryan you
0:49:19think it's that yeah I suppose that's
0:49:22about Ryan you know it's like because
0:49:26like the king of Mombasa is gonna get a
0:49:30big entourage they're gonna throw
0:49:31they're gonna be throwing flower petals
0:49:34out in front of them that's that's in
0:49:36his Ryder
0:49:37that's in his Ryder right so but that
0:49:40type of thing where everywhere you go
0:49:42that's the thing money can't buy like us
0:49:46like Zuckerberg doesn't get 50 cops
0:49:51follow him following him and like
0:49:53running red lights and when the
0:49:56president comes here they close down the
0:49:57freeway I am it's so disruptive and that
0:50:00is a big I think a thing that that that
0:50:05president baseball hat
0:50:06probably like after he realized oh you
0:50:10don't get chandeliers in your limo but
0:50:12you do get to close down the freeway
0:50:14that's got to be really enticing that's
0:50:16got to really make a person not want to
0:50:18retire not want to resign mm-hmm you
0:50:21know even even if you do want to resign
0:50:23that's gonna make you think twice about
0:50:24resigning because once that goes away
0:50:26you never get it back I mean something
0:50:28that many of us can appreciate or
0:50:31understand is first-class on a plane
0:50:35so I i'd had a okay number of plane
0:50:38flights throughout my life and then at
0:50:40one point during the.com days my boss it
0:50:43was a really great guy
0:50:44upgraded me and I flew in 1999-2000 I
0:50:48flew in first class for the first time
0:50:49and you know it's such a it's such a
0:50:51lame joke to make but it is kind of hard
0:50:54to go back like once you've been in
0:50:56first class and you especially today I
0:50:58mean our first class today is like a put
0:51:03it this way coach today not a fun
0:51:05experience we've talked about this know
0:51:06what it is what you have experienced
0:51:08that and you go like this does not have
0:51:09to be stressful and awful and I get to
0:51:12feel a little bit fancy like especially
0:51:13if you're a poor kid like me you go oh
0:51:15this is this is kind of nice I would
0:51:17love to do this again
0:51:18and I bet it's like that to the tenth
0:51:19power aspect especially if you're say a
0:51:21Steve minuchin and or your price we're
0:51:24talking about politics we promised we
0:51:26wouldn't do that did we didn't talk
0:51:27about politics well you know you talk
0:51:30about optics optics you always had an
0:51:32unofficial policy of let's not talk
0:51:34about politics cuz I want to be able to
0:51:35release them this is you don't talk
0:51:36about religion in the ones that make it
0:51:38on the air no no I'm not believe you me
0:51:44my friend I know where the line is you
0:51:49get quiet you get quiet for a little
0:51:51while no no I know I know there was a
0:52:01there was a while there right we're
0:52:02right about an hour and 10 minutes in
0:52:05where you were like this is a releasable
0:52:06podcast you would view it would be so
0:52:08good would be so close to being done and
0:52:10be so close and then you would find a
0:52:12message that you wanted to get out yeah
0:52:15but you know
0:52:16you know I don't disagree with your
0:52:17message I just want to you know help the
0:52:18nice people I know so no I believe I
0:52:25believe the children are our future yeah
0:52:27yeah but I do care to let them lead the
0:52:31way are you really prepared that's the
0:52:33thing about being 49 mm-hmm I feel like
0:52:36one of the challenges that I've been
0:52:38facing is how do I continue to be useful
0:52:41to people which I've always desired to
0:52:43be and tried to be how do I continue to
0:52:46be useful while also acknowledging that
0:52:49whether or not I think a thing matters
0:52:52or is good or sensible no longer really
0:52:56matters mm-hmm and so I want to continue
0:52:59to be useful wanting to realize that
0:53:02intellectually and then it's one thing
0:53:03to see it play it out in every single
0:53:04exchange of your life yeah since dad
0:53:08where you're yelling at clouds yeah yeah
0:53:10but you do want to be useful and there
0:53:15was a time I think a long time before my
0:53:18dad's generation where the understanding
0:53:22continued to be that as people get older
0:53:24they accrue wisdom and so are more
0:53:27useful even if they aren't down in the
0:53:30trenches doing things you go consult
0:53:32them or whatever and then but you know
0:53:34things changed that's nice that's not
0:53:38fair to say the 20th century a lot of
0:53:39stuff happened really fast but for many
0:53:41mmm decades maybe even centuries the
0:53:44pace of change would not exceed what
0:53:45happened over two generations you can
0:53:47say you know dad mom and dad have seen
0:53:49some shit like we should listen to them
0:53:50yeah right I mean daddy they know how to
0:53:52root cellar we need the root cellar they
0:53:54know from root cellar we should be
0:53:56listening to them yeah right the wagon
0:53:58is broken and only dad knows how to fix
0:54:00it or how do you how do you water an
0:54:02older horse hmm and you know Gramps has
0:54:06got that kind of but but Gramps now is
0:54:08like here's how you water an older horse
0:54:10and like the kids are like son Jetson
0:54:13scooters and they're like we don't use
0:54:15horses great that's a good example yeah
0:54:17well you know I like to help you've
0:54:20given it some thought but like how can
0:54:25we be useful without seeming grouchy
0:54:27this has been something that we've been
0:54:29all this time and realizing that my
0:54:32looking at those photos of my dad right
0:54:34around the time that I was that I was a
0:54:36young young guy and my dad was like that
0:54:39they all grew their sideburns long yeah
0:54:42I got like over one like season
0:54:44something every guy had sideburns my dad
0:54:47went from being like we're from wearing
0:54:48a James Bond tuxedo to having sideburns
0:54:53long sideburns and wearing a kind of
0:54:55leather like a leather trench coat not
0:54:58even leather but like suede trench coat
0:55:00and I was like what happened to my dad
0:55:02is application of Dad's yeah and then
0:55:05there and then there like going on ski
0:55:06trips and they got big big big wide ties
0:55:09and that was that was during that era
0:55:12when the when my dad would appear in
0:55:14court and the judge would because the
0:55:16judges were maybe the last people to
0:55:18adopt sideburns the judge a couple of
0:55:21times a judge told my dad that that that
0:55:23his the Blazer that he was wearing in
0:55:26court was not suitable oh right like
0:55:28that's your freebie yeah freebie you
0:55:31know what Dave cuz they also like they
0:55:33all drank together whatever so I was
0:55:35like hey Dave
0:55:36sidebar mm-hmm don't ever wear that
0:55:38jacket in court again and my dad was
0:55:39like well you know I was on my way
0:55:41somewhere else yeah so that you know I
0:55:45also don't want that to happen we're
0:55:47we're just like okay well we're we're
0:55:52gonna dye our hair too
0:55:55we're gonna like Manic Panic my hair
0:55:57just just to stay in the game it's like
0:56:00no you're not you're not gonna do that
0:56:02either yeah how's that helping yeah
0:56:04you're not gonna Manic Panic I think
0:56:06this is not interesting or funny but I
0:56:08think two things you can do are to
0:56:11embrace curiosity and kindness Oh
0:56:13curiosity and Kanye it's not funny but
0:56:15curiosity and kindness and you know
0:56:17kindness kindness doesn't hurt anybody
0:56:21as long as you're not being a dick about
0:56:23it or doing it for your own selfish
0:56:25reasons but like you know I go to the
0:56:28bodega oh you know couple three times a
0:56:30week and I see the lady at the bodega
0:56:32who's always lady at the bodega and you
0:56:34know she goes she's uh she's a woman in
0:56:36flux she's a recent grandmother she's
0:56:38she's always trying new things she's got
0:56:39different nails
0:56:40she's got different eyebrows she's got
0:56:42different hair she's trying
0:56:43some things out then I will frequent if
0:56:45I feel this I will say hey I really like
0:56:47your hair and that's it that's it I mean
0:56:49cool I broke I hope that's not too gross
0:56:51a thing to say to a sixty year old woman
0:56:53but like I'll say hey I really like your
0:56:54hair and that's have you ever have you
0:56:56ever said eyebrows on fleek I should do
0:56:58that I should do that I'm personal about
0:57:01like a specific part like I don't want
0:57:03to be like oh your left arm looks good
0:57:05today
0:57:05you know you get too specific and it
0:57:07gets kind of odd like you have nice
0:57:09incisors there was a while there where
0:57:12where when I would use on fleek which I
0:57:17now spell en fleek only off fleek on
0:57:22fleek on the French style I would get a
0:57:25lot of like big eye rolls from from my
0:57:31millennium followers and I deploy them
0:57:47tactically yes someday when the book is
0:57:55written about our time the three lols
0:57:57are gonna be a whole different laws but
0:58:01as time went on and the millenniums
0:58:02decided that all fleek was no longer
0:58:04their thing they weren't doing it I was
0:58:07like no no no on fleek is a thing you
0:58:10can't back down you you may not want it
0:58:13I went out there you did that you put it
0:58:16out there yeah it was on fleek was you
0:58:18not me but now I feel like and the thing
0:58:20is I originally on fleek was only for
0:58:22eyebrows is that right yeah it was just
0:58:25for I brony eyebrows could be on fleek
0:58:27at first John is that one of those black
0:58:29lady reactions you have type things that
0:58:30we need to talk about is it is it
0:58:32are we being racial when we say on fleek
0:58:34or is that just a purely without race
0:58:37millennium thing I don't think so I
0:58:38think it's pure millennium on fleek I
0:58:40don't know where it came from and I
0:58:41don't think anybody does mmm-hmm I may
0:58:44be one there may be one of those things
0:58:46where it was a misspelling like prawn
0:58:49like oh that's a really good prawn and
0:58:51and what it means was porn but they but
0:58:53they were typing to catch fish
0:58:56and it also brawl shrimping they call it
0:58:58yeah okay all right or whatever all
0:59:01those things that come out of 4chan
0:59:03where somebody's like typing too fast
0:59:05and they don't stick in your computer
0:59:06they don't get it right like now on
0:59:094chan
0:59:09instead of wall they say kak-kek because
0:59:15they're near each other I know they're
0:59:18not at all they're not I mean all is
0:59:20right next to each other kek is far away
0:59:22but it it it stands for something else
0:59:25and so on for 10 now everybody goes kack
0:59:28kack and it's a it's a forced meme you
0:59:31know it's that's there's that's a fun
0:59:33thing yeah the forced meme okay forced
0:59:36meme people are always trying to force a
0:59:38meme I'm hoping I can make a meme out of
0:59:39the fact that I'm always typing
0:59:41something wrong on my on iOS and I end
0:59:43up getting a comma and the letter n in
0:59:45the middle of the word did you ever get
0:59:47that I and when I'm texting I and 30% of
0:59:51my texts with a lowercase B I'm like
0:59:54what time we're gonna be there B and I
0:59:57don't know why oh it's because the B is
0:59:59right
0:59:59right
1:00:00in the center above the space bar I'll
1:00:02see you do a dip dip on the bar and you
1:00:04accidentally had to be actually so where
1:00:06are we going be and no one ever comments
1:00:09on it nobody's ever like why you calling
1:00:11me B it's kind of rappy it sounds a
1:00:12little bit rappy yeah what's up being
1:00:14hit up what up B I have a friend that
1:00:16ends every text with BB
1:00:19what's up BB and I think what he means
1:00:22is baby what's up baby oh I don't like
1:00:25that at all
1:00:26I hate it and I said to him a couple of
1:00:28times like - please don't call me bebe
1:00:30and he's like no it means like it means
1:00:32like BB and I'm like no no no it does
1:00:35not I just like mommy blogger it's like
1:00:40a French diminutive that I don't like
1:00:42applied to me out like a day they like a
1:00:44bit babe a hmm no it's a black lady
1:00:47reaction gif thing when you call
1:00:48somebody BAE isn't that a black lady
1:00:50reaction gif thing we need to talk about
1:00:51don't think so I think that's a pure
1:00:53millennium thing okay what's a BAE a BAE
1:00:55is like a it's like a sweet baby but
1:00:58it's like that's my baby but it's BAE
1:01:01what about squat goals see I use I
1:01:05deploy squad girls all the time I will
1:01:06not say BAE and I won't let anybody call
1:01:08me Bay okay
1:01:09oh you just lay that out there just this
1:01:11is not a thing we're gonna do this yeah
1:01:12don't don't call me Bay and most people
1:01:14most of the millenniums that I associate
1:01:17with have the good sense not to use Bay
1:01:19even in their own lives I have one that
1:01:21I've been sitting on for several weeks
1:01:23and I finally had to ask some
1:01:24millenniums about it because I keep
1:01:25seeing it in like Twitter moments I
1:01:27don't know what it means and I think I
1:01:29got an answer but people kept talking
1:01:31about when they when there were people
1:01:33like on a reality show that they wanted
1:01:35to hook up they would say that they're
1:01:37shipping them they say oh yeah we're
1:01:40we're shipping you know Todd and Alice
1:01:42from you know rippy bachelors show or
1:01:44whatever and I never I didn't understand
1:01:46what that means and I thought and I the
1:01:49answer that I got is really unsatisfying
1:01:51they say a it's been around for a long
1:01:53time idiot you with relationship are you
1:01:59familiar with shipping as it sorry sorry
1:02:01no I never never seen it never heard it
1:02:04I just don't know I don't want to be
1:02:05culturally appropriate if I don't need
1:02:08to be appropriate appropriate
1:02:10appropriation I'm um that's what I'm
1:02:12shipping
1:02:13yeah well I think that there's I think
1:02:16that the millenniums have a lot of
1:02:17different levels of relationship that we
1:02:20didn't have sing it sister right because
1:02:24he had like not very they seem totally
1:02:29finally there's just every everything's
1:02:30all higgledy-piggledy like whatever
1:02:32guess you can say someone's your BAE
1:02:34yes shipping with them you should be net
1:02:36Netflix and leaking John John could it
1:02:39be complicated I think it I think that's
1:02:42part of how where it got started right
1:02:44again with a hook up it might be a
1:02:49Netflix on fleek oh it's leaking chill I
1:02:53bet we can chill I'm not sure if it's
1:02:56true like I one of my first millennium
1:03:00friends back when they were still like
1:03:0220 yeah I used to say to me all the time
1:03:06used to sort of brag in a braggy young
1:03:08person way about how fluid their
1:03:11relationships works and as that's kind
1:03:14of woke right it was well at the time I
1:03:17think it was Ben it was it was a
1:03:18contrast that that that this friend was
1:03:21making between his you're like young
1:03:25cool more groovy people and my old stuck
1:03:28in the mud people and I never had the
1:03:30heart to tell him that you know that I
1:03:33whatever man I'd like touch more dicks
1:03:36than you've had hot the entire line yeah
1:03:40you were your patient zero for fluid
1:03:43yeah that's right I was so fluid in the
1:03:45early night for notes it's you've had
1:03:48you've touched more dicks than you've
1:03:49had hot meals is that it hot dinner too
1:03:56many dicks that's too many I haven't
1:03:58touched that many dicks but but but more
1:04:01than hot more than he had had hot
1:04:02dinners at the time now he may have had
1:04:04more hot dinners in the interim I was so
1:04:08fluid viscosity you know what I mean
1:04:10like like early times this was like we
1:04:13were very very existential viscosity you
1:04:15were like eh you were like a human semen
1:04:17squid he just fit into any space look
1:04:19you know give it to you tell me where it
1:04:21is and I will squeeze in there yeah what
1:04:24time what do I wear
1:04:25but as
1:04:26time has gone on and now that he's a
1:04:28person that's in his in his 30s like
1:04:31that fluidity his fluidity has has
1:04:34really coagulated right now he's just
1:04:37sort of like he just wants a girlfriend
1:04:39now oh yeah habit of thinking that
1:04:41you're progressive yeah you think like
1:04:44oh man I'm always gonna live like this
1:04:46me and my friends are always gonna pig
1:04:47pile naked and just like Netflix and and
1:04:50and cleco all night and day and it's
1:04:54like now well maybe but probably
1:04:56everybody wants eventually everybody
1:04:58wants a white picket fence except for a
1:05:00very few of us just I always think about
1:05:02the guys that there were kind of
1:05:04ungraciously call townies but but the
1:05:06guys in their late 20s 30s 40s 50s who
1:05:11kept coming to college parties years
1:05:13after they had gone there for one
1:05:14semester I mean that's not a good look
1:05:17in a pig pile no there was a there was a
1:05:21that's not for you right there
1:05:23there was a young kid who had a band
1:05:26during the shearing peak indie rock
1:05:28years here in Seattle and his dad was
1:05:33the bass player in the band and his dad
1:05:37was probably in his 40s and the kid was
1:05:42late teens and his dad wore color in his
1:05:48hair
1:05:48you know like Manic Panic and it was
1:05:53very uncomfortable for all of us because
1:05:56you don't want to really be interacting
1:05:58with the kid because he's a child
1:06:01[Music]
1:06:03you don't want to interact with the dad
1:06:06because he's a dad that he's not your
1:06:08dad but he's a student he's clearly a
1:06:09dad's and dad yeah and but they would be
1:06:13at parties and events like they would
1:06:15the kid could be there because his dad
1:06:18was there
1:06:18mm-hm and his dad shouldn't have been
1:06:21there and that was always very hard and
1:06:24now but you know what's fortunate is
1:06:26that now I can go to those parties and
1:06:28there's usually like a there's usually a
1:06:30padded chair that I can sit on and
1:06:33in a corner and if people want to come
1:06:35pay their respects they can put your
1:06:39dogs up and maybe hold court a little
1:06:41bit yeah you try and put your dogs up
1:06:45and and you know the people that don't
1:06:48want to come the people who want to
1:06:49stand across the room and go ah that guy
1:06:51I've never liked that guy they can do
1:06:54that sure you don't have to come over no
1:06:55but it's not like I'm circulating you
1:06:57know what I mean I'm not out there like
1:06:58trying to figure out who the young bands
1:07:00are and go hang out with them it's like
1:07:02if the young bands want to come say
1:07:03hello that's wonderful
1:07:04I'm doing a recording right now actually
1:07:06and one of the MN and the person playing
1:07:09the drums is a member of one of the
1:07:10young bands and we have a great time
1:07:12together I'll bet you do you know but
1:07:14then I then I music a generational John
1:07:16there's so much you guys still have in
1:07:18common yeah it really is a language
1:07:19Berlin mm-hmm but but then I'm like oh
1:07:22oh wait I'm 20 years older than this
1:07:27person yeah 20 years older which is an
1:07:32entire which is the lifetime of an
1:07:34entire cool musician yeah they're you
1:07:40know these young musicians aren't 20
1:07:42they're in their late 20s they're
1:07:43already at that age where a musician has
1:07:45to confront the fact that maybe they
1:07:47didn't make it and yet there is still a
1:07:50plain old man yeah another playing with
1:07:53an old guy now they're on some record by
1:07:55a guy who's like wow I was sitting in a
1:07:59chair with my fly unzips I was like sit
1:08:10on a crate
1:08:23which which would absolutely be my dream
1:08:25right apparently John Lee for a long
1:08:30time in the later days of his career and
1:08:32I talked to many people that played with
1:08:34him he did just keep his fly down oh
1:08:37really
1:08:39yeah he just I mean and it wasn't really
1:08:41like the audience couldn't he was
1:08:42sitting on it on a chair the audience
1:08:43couldn't really see it but everybody
1:08:45else could and I guess it was like for
1:08:47he was just venting but that's that's a
1:08:51bold place in life you got that is John
1:08:54squat goals right now did you just have
1:08:56a group group of men that you can really
1:08:58relate to and you're all just totally
1:08:59comfortable sitting around your fly's
1:09:00down if nobody talks about it doesn't
1:09:02have to be weird it's not even anything
1:09:03you have to coordinate it just happens I
1:09:05I for sure feel like at least for me
1:09:10squad goals is only an internet joke for
1:09:14me like personally I don't really have
1:09:17squad goals I do have a goal to have
1:09:21five or six people around my property in
1:09:23my employ but I wouldn't call that a
1:09:25squad well you know if it becomes a
1:09:29squad and maybe not everybody who's on
1:09:31the property in the compound is
1:09:33technically in the squad you might have
1:09:35some you know you think about Elvis
1:09:37right you think about it so think about
1:09:39anybody or you think about Don Corleone
1:09:41you get these people that like are kind
1:09:43of in this hammer right you get this
1:09:45retinue of these kind of characters that
1:09:48move in and out right right and Hammer
1:09:49was paying all of his friends to be
1:09:51there he was a nice man he's still a
1:09:53nice man remember that hammers 50th
1:09:57birthday party now I'm 15 not happen at
1:10:02the Tonga room or whatever now we just
1:10:04have a quiet dinner and get to bed early
1:10:05I have a couple of squads I'm actually a
1:10:08member of you have a couple of squads I
1:10:09think I artist member of some squads I
1:10:12think I'm an adjunct squaty but there
1:10:15are but there are people that are
1:10:16full-on like the squad is where they
1:10:20live and belong because of FOMO FOMO
1:10:25first in last out for me that's called
1:10:29the fear of missing out Olympics oh the
1:10:31fear of me it's the primary existential
1:10:34characteristic of millenniums is
1:10:36FOMO oh they have FOMO they're fun they
1:10:38have a fear of missing out I feel like
1:10:41the squad's that I am that the squad's
1:10:43that I attend
1:10:44are there not millenniums guan's they're
1:10:47like squads of guys that get together
1:10:49and watch football games and play poker
1:10:50like rock people who do that listen Rock
1:10:55poker they used to be ashamed that they
1:10:57would watch football a little bit
1:10:59because it wasn't very rock but then at
1:11:02a certain point they just were like
1:11:03that's I just want to watch football
1:11:05whether it's rock or not it was
1:11:07described it as something people took
1:11:08pretty seriously were you weren't
1:11:10allowed to shuck and jive and walk
1:11:11around and you know play grab-ass that a
1:11:13lot of your friends take it fairly
1:11:14seriously you know way some people watch
1:11:17Game of Thrones like you have to watch
1:11:18this with a very prayerful mindset you
1:11:20do it's a it's a particularly in Seattle
1:11:22the professional sports are understood
1:11:26in a kind of George Will context where
1:11:29people intellectualize about sports here
1:11:32Oh y'all get to be George Plimpton yeah
1:11:34there's a there's a like oh no no we're
1:11:36talking about the book about sports we
1:11:39read the book about sports we didn't
1:11:41we're not just here for the movie yep
1:11:46and so and particularly when we lost our
1:11:49basketball team then they became
1:11:51existential you could be like dark about
1:11:54sports
1:11:54we're still talking about getting a
1:11:57basketball team back God's like from the
1:12:00outside and all its like the same God
1:12:02but like when you're in a squad goal of
1:12:04the Gauss you realize there's different
1:12:05there's mopey god there's football Goths
1:12:07you didn't like McDonald's goth like
1:12:09they're all different like variations
1:12:11now a lot of people are going to know
1:12:12who McDonald's goth is but you'll know
1:12:14if you're in the gods to go is that guys
1:12:16McDonald's guy man everyone smile you'll
1:12:18see somebody that's like I'm skater goth
1:12:19and you go no they're skater is outside
1:12:23of the realm of goth you know you are
1:12:25not skater go that's another CAPTCHA
1:12:27that's another one of those tests you
1:12:28throw usually throw in a skater goth and
1:12:30everybody so you can instantly know who
1:12:32the real ballers are and in the
1:12:33psychological exactly you're like punk
1:12:35goth yes I like football goth sure
1:12:39mm-hmm
1:12:40but then you're like nature goth no no
1:12:44there's no nature that's a black metal
1:12:48isn't that a black metal thing like
1:12:50those those bands that are like druids
1:12:52with a kabuki the samurai make up
1:12:55whatever it's called yeah they're out in
1:12:56those little Scandinavian checks you
1:13:00could be a Czech goth you could hello be
1:13:02a check off that's the that's the entire
1:13:05goth comes from the Czech Republic I bet
1:13:08I bet the Czechs with all due respect to
1:13:11the mini the mini black metal and dark
1:13:14metals love the Nordic lands
1:13:17I bet the Czechs just look in there and
1:13:18like give me a fucking break
1:13:20I'm standing here in a creek playing
1:13:21guitar you you want you walk off like I
1:13:23got I got heavy a heavy goth I worship a
1:13:25fucking twig I feel like the slow Vox
1:13:28are there's a lot of this is a thing
1:13:32that you don't always know the Eastern
1:13:37Slovakia is a very mountainous region
1:13:41you know the Romanians get all the
1:13:43Transylvania vibe they get to be like
1:13:46whoo haha because they got Transylvania
1:13:49there and it's it's mountainous and it's
1:13:51like it's like scary but Ukraine
1:13:56Slovakia Poland like there's a place in
1:14:00there where the Carpathian Mountains are
1:14:02very very tall like super tall like I
1:14:06see full of bears tall and and they're
1:14:12up there doing doing very Goffe things I
1:14:15think you gotta get outside the
1:14:17mainstream like you I don't doubt that
1:14:19there are metal bands in Prague
1:14:21certainly just the law of large numbers
1:14:22tells us that there will be prog metal
1:14:24bands but you got to really go up a
1:14:26Carpathian to find some serious Goths
1:14:28yeah that's not even the serious go
1:14:30through people untethered from the
1:14:32expectations of the city I think
1:14:34somewhere up in Finland
1:14:36you know the Finns hated the Russians so
1:14:39much that they sided with the Nazis not
1:14:41because they believed in Nazism but
1:14:43because they hated the Russians that
1:14:45much yeah the enemy my enemy that's
1:14:48right the enemy of the enemy is my
1:14:50friend and they are very I bet you
1:14:53there's some there are some holes up
1:14:54there that are full of dark magic
1:14:59which is the one is Iceland the one
1:15:02where they have gnomes Iceland has
1:15:05gnomes this the Finns have gnomes I
1:15:08don't think of the fins as nomic okay I
1:15:11think that the Swedes have gnomes I
1:15:14think that the the nor norsk have gnomes
1:15:17the Danish definitely at the dance the
1:15:20dance dance people and I think the I
1:15:23think the the gnomes of Iceland probably
1:15:26came they were like in the hold of the
1:15:29ship that came from Denmark and they
1:15:30snuck out like like a brown rat like a
1:15:32little little bit of a rat they call it
1:15:34no is there because it's it for them
1:15:36that's like that's like that's like
1:15:38pokemons there like that's just part of
1:15:40the culture there's nobody's gonna be
1:15:41freaked out that you believe in gnomes
1:15:42right maybe a Finn you take a Finn a
1:15:45true Russian hating Finn and their
1:15:47attachment to the no mckernon omec
1:15:49culture is something that's more bespoke
1:15:51and personal that's their squad goal I
1:15:53feel like probably in Finland they have
1:15:55raids
1:15:56oh right more than gnomes there's not
1:16:01like somebody living in a tree stump
1:16:03it's like some it's like a ghoul walking
1:16:05through a blown-out forest that never
1:16:08sees light we had Tom Petty he was our
1:16:09race oh right
1:16:14fucking-a what I'm gonna ask you about I
1:16:17wonder what you got your basement no go
1:16:18ahead talk about Tom Petty oh just for a
1:16:20second I'll talk all the time petty you
1:16:22want I do want to hear about the
1:16:23progress of your house if it suits you
1:16:24well so progress of the house goes like
1:16:27this
1:16:28some necessarily follow the Internet as
1:16:33regards to this show but I can tell you
1:16:34this has this has been brought up on
1:16:36other programs that I do from people who
1:16:37listen to show people are very
1:16:39interested in what's happening with song
1:16:40people I'm very interested with who's in
1:16:42the basement Peter okay Peter Peter in
1:16:44Somme and and retinue at your compound
1:16:47people are very curious about what's
1:16:48happening with this just as much as
1:16:49you're comfortable could you give our
1:16:51listeners an update on where you are so
1:16:53some really kicked it into high gear at
1:16:56a certain point some had everything
1:16:59going at once at one point right he had
1:17:02a lot of balls in the air he had he was
1:17:05power washing the paint off the house he
1:17:07was rebuilding the porch that I had torn
1:17:10apart he was also doing kind of
1:17:13magical thing which you always want but
1:17:16can never sort of know how to ask for
1:17:19which was he was just walking around the
1:17:21house and in the course of doing his
1:17:23other things pressure washing and and
1:17:26the like he was also noticing broken
1:17:29things and fixing them without being
1:17:31asked this is the phenomenon that I call
1:17:33power puttering is the ability to move
1:17:34through a space accomplish things even
1:17:37as you're realizing what else needs to
1:17:38be accomplished it's a very powerful
1:17:39concept it's incredible and he I came
1:17:42home one day and walked around the back
1:17:43of the house and SAAM had put a bunch of
1:17:45he had replaced all the broken shingles
1:17:47and I was like we didn't even talk about
1:17:50shingles he's just got shingles sitting
1:17:54around yeah I was well or he went and
1:17:56got something he was legless on his way
1:17:58to get some paint and he was like I'll
1:18:00get a little bundle of shingles shingles
1:18:02to and fix those broken shingles so he
1:18:05was doing that kind of thing which was
1:18:07pretty astonishing and then his friend
1:18:11arrived and his friend was from Mexico
1:18:15and some and he did not have a common
1:18:20language and I said to some at one point
1:18:25how long have you been working with your
1:18:29friend and he said oh four years where
1:18:31he's like he's like my guy Wow but it
1:18:35was beyond language
1:18:37yeah listening to them talk Psalms like
1:18:39psalm is throwing out some like pidgin
1:18:44Spanish and the guy is back at him kind
1:18:47of with a little bit of that sort of
1:18:49like see no kind of stuff where they
1:18:54were just communicating I guess bye-bye
1:18:56yep by common understanding of what
1:18:58needs done and so he was psalms painter
1:19:01and all of a sudden he was on the roof
1:19:04he didn't carry a little transistor
1:19:06radio with him he just was on the roof
1:19:10doing things and within the space of two
1:19:13days the entire house was went from a
1:19:16stripped like a bomb crater to a
1:19:21completely painted house and like pretty
1:19:24well done
1:19:26unfortunately this was right when the
1:19:29people across the street Dan and his
1:19:32wife who had finally completed the
1:19:34restoration of Jamaica's house right
1:19:36they were trying to have open houses so
1:19:39all of a sudden all these people that
1:19:42I'm hoping will filter down into my new
1:19:45neighbors they're all coming by the
1:19:48house to see how it's going and I've got
1:19:50like a couple of guys on the roof one of
1:19:54them of the transistor radio on his belt
1:19:56yelling at each other in and in like a
1:19:59patois language of their own design yeah
1:20:01and one of them's like got a compressor
1:20:03and there and so I talked to the real
1:20:05estate agent and they were like no no
1:20:06it's good it communicates that the
1:20:08neighborhood is really coming up and I
1:20:10was like okay I guess but but when you
1:20:13combine that with the RV that's like the
1:20:17third that's a third element you're
1:20:19asking other people to accept like two
1:20:23guys on the roof this guy and the porch
1:20:26is still missing yeah and the owner
1:20:29appears to have dug a trench around his
1:20:30house and he has a vintage RV it's a lot
1:20:34to take in this entire time Peters down
1:20:40in the basement also with a compressor
1:20:42also like doing also like finishing a
1:20:47basement which was never intended to be
1:20:48finished and there is some goth graffiti
1:20:52down there from a time in the 70s I
1:20:55think when one of the kids one of the
1:20:57twelve kids that grew up in this house
1:20:59had some sort of heavy rock band but pre
1:21:03I mean like like like Newcastle Brown
1:21:08Ale era heavy rock band okay like this
1:21:12is where venom is from that type of
1:21:14thing right so there's some little
1:21:16there's some quizzical sort of like
1:21:19quasi satanic pentagrams they can't see
1:21:24that right nobody can see it no but is
1:21:27there's a compressor down there you can
1:21:29hear a couple of different compressors
1:21:30going on okay on the problem but so
1:21:33where we are right now what happened was
1:21:35saw him and his partner were
1:21:38kicking ass and then the one
1:21:41disappointment I have is that right at
1:21:44the end they they got to the finish line
1:21:50they got to within sight of the finish
1:21:52line and then they just like sort of
1:21:57chucked it all in and we're gone and
1:21:59what that meant was they were just like
1:22:01and we're done
1:22:03bye and I walked around the house that
1:22:09day and I realized oh no in the last day
1:22:14they painted all the windows shut like
1:22:16they just got excited to be done kind of
1:22:20yeah and you would think that somebody
1:22:22that did this professionally would know
1:22:25how to not just get excited to be done
1:22:28on the last day because he had done so
1:22:30much sort of strangely meticulous work
1:22:32around the place he made everything it
1:22:34all came together right he picks the
1:22:37porch did the shingles he did the roof
1:22:39he flashed everything that he didn't
1:22:41have to flash he fixed stuff all around
1:22:43the house that no one asked him to do
1:22:45and then at the eleventh hour his guy
1:22:49and he just painted all the windows shut
1:22:53and as he was leaving I think I said hey
1:22:56hey uh you guys coming back to do the
1:23:01like not paint the windows shut thing
1:23:03uh-huh and they were like I think they
1:23:08both were like oh right and they walked
1:23:10around the house once and I was like
1:23:14okay they're gonna take care of this and
1:23:16then they were gone and so now Here I am
1:23:21[Music]
1:23:22and I'm going around the house with an
1:23:26x-acto knife and and a and a pry bar and
1:23:32I'm cutting the paint and I'm pry
1:23:35barring the windows open oh no and that
1:23:39means that I'm gonna have to fix the
1:23:42paint where I
1:23:45fuck it up trying to get the windows
1:23:47open right cuz you can't you know if
1:23:49that if that's painted as the seam and
1:23:51you wasn't if it tears off a little
1:23:52sheet yeah a little bit gonna tear and
1:23:55then you got a paint and then in
1:23:57painting the windows shut I did kind of
1:23:59a little bit of a radical thing which
1:24:00I'd been wanting to do for 10 years
1:24:02which was that so when Sam said I'm
1:24:04gonna paint the house he was like what
1:24:06color do you want to paint it and I said
1:24:08Sam it's a white house
1:24:09it was born it's a farm house right it
1:24:12was born white it's always gonna be
1:24:14painted white it it the trim is white
1:24:18the house is white the porch is white it
1:24:21doesn't if I were to come in here and be
1:24:23one of those people that's like I want
1:24:24my house to be gunmetal gray with with
1:24:27the you know like luminescent green trim
1:24:30I would be the asshole
1:24:31I would be that's wrong that's not what
1:24:34it's a gear house wants to be white it
1:24:36is and it doesn't I mean it's like it
1:24:38couldn't be other mm-hmm that's a white
1:24:41barn it's a white house and it's not one
1:24:43of those neighborhoods where there are a
1:24:44lot of white houses this is the only one
1:24:46it's got a white picket fence that
1:24:47matches the house that's how it's made
1:24:49and so some was a little disappointed
1:24:52that he didn't get to make it fancier
1:24:55but I did say what I've always wanted
1:24:58is black lacquer window sashes so just
1:25:05the interest part of the window the part
1:25:08that actually moves black is in like
1:25:10black like lacquer black like it looks
1:25:13like a like it looks like a Japanese box
1:25:15hmm so black black none blacker mm-hmm
1:25:18none more that must must be very
1:25:21dramatic look it's very good and it's
1:25:23the thing is it's very subtle you don't
1:25:25you know you don't notice it so much as
1:25:27you feel it you feel that sort of
1:25:31Slovakian carpathian yes you may not
1:25:34know what it is you know is there's
1:25:35something about this though this is
1:25:36special yep like Japanese box but Psalm
1:25:39and his and his best friend did not
1:25:44properly tape and so there's a little
1:25:49bit of bleed so I have to go back not
1:25:54just and paint the windows where I've
1:25:55cut them but also paint over the little
1:25:58dabs of
1:25:58black that are on the other side you
1:26:02hate that feeling where you've had work
1:26:04performed and now it just makes work for
1:26:05you yeah and and yet I mean this is
1:26:08certainly work I'm capable of doing
1:26:10without too much complaint but it isn't
1:26:12done and it didn't get done 100% right
1:26:15and everything else he did was great and
1:26:17it just felt like I was very sympathetic
1:26:19to it where he was like I'm gonna be
1:26:21done by Thursday and then Thursday came
1:26:23and there was another day of work to do
1:26:25and maybe he had budgeted maybe he had
1:26:29scheduled something that started on
1:26:30Thursday yeah and he just had to leave
1:26:34and the thing was I I gave him a nice
1:26:37tip because I eventually get to where
1:26:41you talked about money
1:26:42I did I was like I was like he he made
1:26:46me an offer on the whole job he was like
1:26:50what about this amount and I felt very
1:26:54strongly that some was somebody that I
1:26:57hadn't absolutely no interest in trying
1:27:00to negotiate him down I was like Tom
1:27:02that is a fine amount and let us have it
1:27:05be so the project management triangle
1:27:07becomes like we're locking in this
1:27:08amount and then our scope and quality
1:27:11will kind of is encompassed by this
1:27:14amount hard edges d is the amount yeah
1:27:18and I feel like you can definitely paint
1:27:20your house for fifteen thousand dollars
1:27:21and I didn't want to paint it from
1:27:23fifteen thousand dollars but if you
1:27:25paint your house for $7,500 you do not
1:27:29get a fifteen thousand dollar job and
1:27:32and I felt like the quality of the job
1:27:35overall that Saum did on the entire
1:27:37property was well in excess of what he
1:27:41was asking and so I tipped him also but
1:27:45there is this additional problem of like
1:27:49oh now I have this thing to do Elizabet
1:27:52taste in your mouth because everything
1:27:53else went so well he didn't yell the
1:27:54landing yeah only slightly because I
1:27:56still feel like he did he did a bang-up
1:27:59job for me mm-hmm
1:28:00but there is that little bit of like hmm
1:28:03psalms psalms guy as he described him
1:28:07this is his mejor amigo yeah
1:28:09did not
1:28:11maybe take up the pride in the last bad
1:28:16influence
1:28:16I who knows what's going on between
1:28:19those two
1:28:20I cannot imagine them going and getting
1:28:22a drink after work because I do not know
1:28:23what they would talk about because they
1:28:26didn't have even a lot to they it was
1:28:29not I think some often instructed him on
1:28:32what to do next by pointing with the
1:28:34backside of a paintbrush fine I think if
1:28:38you're clearing brush they understand
1:28:40that there's an area where there's brush
1:28:41we weren't there to not be brush and
1:28:43brush has to go to somewhere else via a
1:28:45given means pointing with the paintbrush
1:28:47is more than enough yeah but there was
1:28:49an understanding between them because
1:28:50psalms guy was not a young person right
1:28:53he was a man my own age so there was an
1:28:56assumption between them I think that he
1:28:58was talented at his work and did not
1:29:00need to be supervised and my feeling
1:29:03about the painting of the window shut is
1:29:04not that psalms guy did it and didn't
1:29:08then some wasn't hip to it I think it
1:29:10was more that they both like there was a
1:29:13little bit of a nod that went on between
1:29:14them like are we good here I feel like
1:29:16we're pretty I'd say I feel like we were
1:29:18pretty good and it might be that some
1:29:20underbid the job and felt like by the
1:29:23end I had gotten good value because
1:29:25that's how I feel but some definitely
1:29:29left in that in a way that did not I
1:29:32what I wanted to say was some you're
1:29:35welcome here anytime
1:29:36so great to land on that this whole
1:29:38story has been leading up to Psalm
1:29:40you're welcome back anytime you know
1:29:41yeah and I could see this getting to a
1:29:43point where he's on something like a
1:29:44retainer where some just went when it
1:29:46suits him you know every six to fourteen
1:29:49weeks he just drives by and notices
1:29:50something that needs fixing yeah and
1:29:52here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna fix
1:29:54this for you and I'd be like absolutely
1:29:56something you know what like I want you
1:29:59know what I want now I want a weather
1:30:00vane on top of the barn
1:30:01I want a weather vane in the style of
1:30:04not of a chicken I don't want a chicken
1:30:06on top of the barn what I want is a
1:30:08sailing ship a sailing ship that points
1:30:11in the direction of the wind and creates
1:30:14you just say I want a cool mailbox
1:30:16that's hard to knock down boom mailbox I
1:30:18do need that look at my current mailbox
1:30:20is actually like screwed to the phone
1:30:23Pole
1:30:26that up to code I don't think so I don't
1:30:29think anybody likes it but when I got
1:30:32here it was screwed to the phone pole
1:30:33and then when it started to fall down
1:30:35Linkous phone poles you need a pretty
1:30:38good screw to get into an old and might
1:30:40have I have old phone poles they're very
1:30:41porous they're poorest they are they're
1:30:44there this one's rotted to the core and
1:30:46so I had to find so the phone the
1:30:48mailbox started to fall off the pump ol
1:30:50Chanda and so I had to find I had to
1:30:54find a some hell of screws but I found
1:30:56them in the barn
1:30:57and and so I zipped that thing back into
1:31:00the phone pole and even now when the
1:31:03when the garbage truck goes by too fast
1:31:05the mailbox sort of rattles its prime to
1:31:09get mailbox baseball but I don't think
1:31:11kids today know what that is these kids
1:31:16today have never hit a mailbox with a
1:31:18baseball bat they don't even know they
1:31:19don't even know how with the fancy
1:31:21glasses yeah so anyway but Peter still
1:31:25here and now Peter has done a pretty
1:31:27great job of doing the basement so much
1:31:32so that the basement now is a is a
1:31:34constant temperature of 65 degrees
1:31:36whereas the temperature yeah the
1:31:38basement used to go from 90 degrees to 9
1:31:41degrees depending on what was going on
1:31:43outside and you don't really have fancy
1:31:45equipment down there in a situation like
1:31:46that nope that's not a place that you
1:31:48want to store your your precious old
1:31:52like like western state hurricanes
1:31:55posters cuz they're gonna get little
1:31:57mold spots on him but I think today even
1:32:01Peter is down in the basement even maybe
1:32:03while we speak so while we were doing
1:32:04the show my mom came into the room and
1:32:06she handed me on a piece of yellow legal
1:32:10paper a note that said hand me a note
1:32:15that said I'm sorry , I'm getting sick
1:32:18and I'm going home to bed
1:32:20oh no I've given Peter the codes to the
1:32:25storage unit so now Peter has the codes
1:32:27okay now I don't know what she and Peter
1:32:31have discussed sounds like quite an
1:32:33escalation
1:32:34that is that in Peters purview no no I
1:32:36trust Peter with the codes okay Justin
1:32:38with the cuts
1:32:38I feel like Peter could have the launch
1:32:40codes even Peter so I was I went to a
1:32:44party the other day and another friend
1:32:46of mine said that he and Peter were were
1:32:49thinking about getting into the apple
1:32:51cider business I said tell me more
1:33:03and he walked me into his garage which
1:33:06was full of bins of little crab apples
1:33:11and he said he said these are these crab
1:33:17apples are from the Loire region of
1:33:21France and these crab apples are from
1:33:24the Piedmont area of Italy and these
1:33:26grants and I was and I was like where do
1:33:28you get all these and he said well up
1:33:30north of Seattle there is there's a
1:33:34agricultural a large agricultural area
1:33:36around the town of Arlington and there's
1:33:40a man who has a large property that has
1:33:43all of these magical vintage cider
1:33:47apples growing with names like the names
1:33:52of heritage rabbits
1:33:54oh okay so they originated from these
1:33:56European climes but these are locally
1:33:59sourced technically speaking yeah Apple
1:34:03from Italy and still have it'd be nice
1:34:04for cider well that's right you wouldn't
1:34:06have that shipped but the apples are a
1:34:10lot of them are like apples that are
1:34:13lost time no they don't exist in France
1:34:16anymore because they've all been like
1:34:20mega cultured mega a Gris out because
1:34:26they because apparently all the cider
1:34:27apples they have there now are by
1:34:29Monsanto yeah so these are these are
1:34:33like these incredible cider apples and
1:34:36my friend Michael has decided that cider
1:34:39making might be his new jam but he was
1:34:42but he and Peter are going to partner up
1:34:44on this
1:34:46and I hear sounds good go get her
1:34:48Oh Peters got a locker you know Peter
1:34:50lives on a houseboat did I tell you yeah
1:34:51yeah yeah yeah uh-huh
1:34:53so Peters always have a certain state of
1:34:56mind and beyond uh both it's a house
1:34:58well you'll have a real different state
1:35:00of mind and when I talked to him about
1:35:02it I've never actually been on it but he
1:35:04says it's more of a house shit or it's
1:35:05more of a shed boat rather than a
1:35:07houseboat and I'm like I've been down
1:35:10around Lake Union a lot and I have seen
1:35:12a lot of these shed boats which are old
1:35:16you know they're properly like these
1:35:18were places that fishermen lived in the
1:35:221910s that are still there and they're
1:35:24usually like what you would call like a
1:35:27shingle bedroom on a floating power it's
1:35:31the way somebody would do ice fishing in
1:35:32a cartoon kind of yeah there's like a
1:35:35portal it that happens to be floating
1:35:37yeah enough to put up enough to put a
1:35:39like a double bed a lamp
1:35:41chanmi a potty and maybe a maybe a
1:35:45little kitchen but like not a ton of I
1:35:47don't think it's a ton I don't think you
1:35:48could play frisbee in it but you also
1:35:50isn't it true a lot of the times with
1:35:51these things it's not the kind of thing
1:35:53where you would unmoor it and like go
1:35:54out for the day
1:35:55no it's mainly it is a floating Shack
1:35:58yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a floating
1:35:59Shack and I think what happens is you're
1:36:01renting the right to to tie it up to
1:36:04some place but if that if that person
1:36:06says like you're out mm-hmm you know we
1:36:09don't like your kind here you can hook a
1:36:1215 horsepower Evinrude to it and on a
1:36:16calm day like man your way across the
1:36:20lake to a place where somebody else is
1:36:23like yeah you can tie your house you got
1:36:25find you slip entire house up here but
1:36:28the but the end of the dock position on
1:36:30all of the houseboat lure ages around
1:36:32like Union is really pride of place you
1:36:37do not come privacy well and expansive
1:36:41view I mean you're the end of the dock
1:36:42right it's like you're at the top of the
1:36:44mountain and you don't just come along
1:36:46and like more your little your little
1:36:48outhouse on the front of somebody's dock
1:36:50I mean there's like little slots I think
1:36:53that they will find for you right
1:36:55but typically so Peter was actually
1:36:57talking about the people that Oh
1:36:59the birth they own the mortgage where
1:37:03there's at this houseboat community and
1:37:05it's one of the older style ones where
1:37:07everybody there's still a hippie most of
1:37:10the houseboats in our Marin
1:37:12yeah right they're still hippies tons of
1:37:14because I mean especially living on
1:37:16bojack's living on boat shacks I think
1:37:19Ellen what did that I think I want lived
1:37:21on a boat Chuck I feel like up until
1:37:23about 1995 you could be just somebody
1:37:28that lived on a houseboat it wasn't a
1:37:31thing that wasn't considered magic it
1:37:34was not a cute nor weird it was just
1:37:36like oh yeah I live down on a houseboat
1:37:37oh sure sure like you like living in a
1:37:40small place than that that Bob's around
1:37:43when somebody goes by in a boat huh
1:37:45but then I think I think Sleepless in
1:37:49Seattle changed it but also like lawyers
1:37:51are always looking to take something
1:37:52nice and make it bad but Peter still
1:37:56lives in one of these communities where
1:37:58everybody's like an old grouchy hippie
1:38:00and the people that own the the marina
1:38:05just rented a new end space so which did
1:38:11not what there were people already there
1:38:13that we're on the end seems like you
1:38:15want to promote from within it does but
1:38:18in this case they said as a pause yeah
1:38:20it's Paul island they said somebody came
1:38:22along and they want to pay a lot of
1:38:24money to be on the end the only true
1:38:27wealth is property and that's right like
1:38:30it's a view space and they built a three
1:38:33like some enormous because there are
1:38:36limits on how big your houseboat can be
1:38:38yeah that's your house yeah the Coast
1:38:41Guard says no no no you can't do that
1:38:43but they they went right up to the
1:38:45property line if you know what I'm
1:38:46saying on how big their houseboat could
1:38:48be and they plopped it down on the end
1:38:51that's all shame shame I know and the
1:38:54entire neighborhood is up in arms about
1:38:55it and by neighborhood I mean people in
1:38:58shacks but like yeah you could go have
1:39:00two Kajaki on that guy
1:39:01you know yeah oh you got are you you
1:39:02want to get along with your neighbors in
1:39:04an environment like that because a lot
1:39:05of things can go wrong if you know what
1:39:06I mean yeah but this guy doesn't care
1:39:08because he look he looks at all those
1:39:10people behind him and he just says you
1:39:12guys are us
1:39:13our gas OC of shingles laughing a
1:39:15floating loading and laughing and he's
1:39:17out there with the big view of the city
1:39:19and the people are mad but you know what
1:39:21capitalist shit dog
1:39:23so Pete and Peter's in there and he's
1:39:26just like look I'm living in an outhouse
1:39:27you got you know the my name is Paul on
1:39:29this between
1:39:32[Music]