H.I. #91: Last Man to Die?
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Brady's before gentlemen okay quite know
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how to parse that sentence but when I'm
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like checking my sound before like I
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found into you so I'm just checking it
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on my own mm-hmm I don't know what most
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people would do with they were just like
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I check one two or say hello hello but I
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always sing like I always sing to the
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microphone when I'm doing my check on my
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own and it just made me wonder to CGP
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grey ever sing I can't imagine you
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I mean Bria I am human after all if you
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prick me I will bleed right I don't
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think there is a human on earth who
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doesn't in some circumstance sing yeah
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it's a very very human experience that I
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definitely replicate on occasion try
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think like what is the best most
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probable singing time for me would be
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driving in a car on my own that's gonna
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be pretty high probability of singing
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time because I think that like that's
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the best time to sing to oneself okay
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you sing in the shower Brady you seem
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like a singing in the shower kind of guy
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I don't sing in the shower
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Shae I was like my thinking time I sing
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to the dogs a lot do you mean literally
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sing to the dogs or talk in a singsong E
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way no I'll sing to them but like I'll
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sing them a song but I'll change the
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words of the song to make it about the
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so like you know instead of like singing
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like Brianna Gill I'll sing Brianna dog
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to the dogs and things like that
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mm-hmm or if it's songs got the name of
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a woman in it like a love song I'll
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change it to one of the dogs names or
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something that seems like a lot of
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effort for very little understanding on
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their part probably and singing to
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yourself in the car is like a good use
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of your time I don't think it's in our
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case at the time I was simply saying it
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seems like a lot of creative effort to
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change the song to be dog related like
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sit there and like write a few drafts oh
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just sing a song and just change the
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word on the spot there's no effort it's
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not like a difficult thing to do I don't
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think I could change your song on the
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fly like that to me it would seem like
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oh you'd have to really think about that
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I guess if you are as as good with words
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as a Brady is you can just spontaneously
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start singing in the words come out it's
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poor like if this is the line of a song
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that says you know I love you baby you
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just change it to I love you Lulu
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there's no cleverness here I'm not like
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changing all the different words in the
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meaning of the song I'm just like
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changing one word to make it cute about
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the dogs I'm sure they appreciate it
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the question I have is if you're not
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particularly into songs what songs do
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you sing like I can't imagine you
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knowing the words to any songs if more
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just that the like the music plays a
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very particular role in my life I don't
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have very many venues for new music to
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come into my life hmm I just don't
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follow it yeah I think like most people
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you get kind of largely stuck in the
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music that existed when you were younger
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so I feel like there's a bunch of song
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that I have on rotation that are from a
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while ago so you would sing along you
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would never sing without music to sing
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along with you wouldn't light as well on
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the stairs and sing like the first line
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of a song that's stuck in your head for
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some reason I'm literally not sure I
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could do like this didn't even occur to
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me as a scenario yeah when you're
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discussing you're singing to the dogs I
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presume that there's something on the
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radio and you're changing your X on the
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fly is you're singing along to dogs this
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changes the whole conversation baby
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because the singing is along with
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something yeah right and then the song
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is guiding your brain in this rut that's
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a very unfamiliar rut so I couldn't just
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do it spontaneously that's madness I
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don't know how you could do that like I
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wouldn't do a full song but like if like
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one or two lines of a song gets stuck in
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my head and often it's a song I don't
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like like I was at the gym a few days
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ago and they were playing the song hold
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on by Wilson Phillips which is a song
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from my youth but it's not a song I
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would like want anyone to ever hear me
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sing and it's just one line from the
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song it's been stuck in my head for days
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and days song as I walk up the stairs
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and I want it to go away
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but I will just sing it you know I'm
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sorry about that torment Brady this is
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not a frequent experience for me the
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line goes if you hold on for one more
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day but then if the dogs walk in the
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room I'll sing if you hold on for one
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more dog you know like right I'll just
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sing it to the dogs I see the pattern
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here everyone sings to their dogs you
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wait and say I don't think to Lucy
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ah and you could sing actual Lucy songs
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too I used to have a dog called Lucy and
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I had another dog called Carlos and they
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used to be out in the back
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together and my friend Tim used to come
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round and he would sing Lucy in the
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backyard with Carlos to the music of
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Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
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I guess Lucy is a name that has more
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song possibilities than Lulu yeah
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songwriters out there get on the Lulu
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songs when we used to have music lessons
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in school we used to have to sing out of
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the songbook there was a song about Lulu
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it was called don't bring Lulu and it
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was about someone was throwing a party
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and they didn't want them to bring this
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person called Lulu cause she always
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I often sing add don't bring Lulu to
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Lulu what are you talking about sing out
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of the songbook we used to have these
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music lessons in primary school where we
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had these sing-along books and the
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teacher would then put on a tape that
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came with the book and the songs would
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play on the cassette tape and we would
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like have to sing along it was just one
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of the activities we would do okay so
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you're talking about little little kids
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school okay yeah yeah primary school but
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there was a song called don't bring Lulu
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and all the songs used to sing in school
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they're all burned into my head I still
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know the lyrics to don't bring Lulu so I
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have got a Lulu song ready to roll good
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you should think of to her after the
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show I can't she's not here tonight well
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well I'm away for the next few days so
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the dogs are away at their holiday home
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it's a bit of a sad time for me when the
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dogs are away right holiday home in the
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country let's buy the beach by the beach
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they love it they get to walk on the
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beach every day I sometimes think
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they're a bit sad with regular listeners
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or even irregular listeners to hello
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internet we know that you and I have
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different attitudes to supermarket
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checkouts you prefer the self-checkout
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mmm-hmm because you don't like sort of
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awkward interactions with the people who
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are doing the checkout right and I
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prefer to go through with the people
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because I think the people working in a
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supermarket are quicker and better at it
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and I don't mind the interaction you're
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a man of the people you like to have a
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little chat hear what's going on in
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their life this has been well
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established so anyway an amazing thing
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happened tonight like a switch went
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tonight in a funny kind of way because I
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went to the supermarket tonight and it
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was just a quick smash and grab I just
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needed to grab three things dinner
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I just need a three thing look and I had
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my three things and then I got to the
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checkouts there's a long long row of
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checkouts where I shop very long human
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checkouts human checkouts and then right
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at the end are all the self checkouts
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but I was very far from the self
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checkouts and I walked up to the human
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checkouts with their big long conveyor
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belts and their spacious alleys for
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supermarket trolleys and write all of
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that and it was very quiet and there
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were two or three that had no people so
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I could have just walked up and said
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here my three things thank you very much
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and I was suddenly overcome with this
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sense of like guilt or they would think
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I was a bad person for going up to the
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normal check out with the big conveyor
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belt and all the infrastructure in place
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for a trolley and I was just going there
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with my three items I felt like if I
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went up I don't know I felt like I
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couldn't do it I felt like three items
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were too few so instead I traipsed all
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the way to the end to the self-checkout
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where I had to queue and where there
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were people using the self-checkout
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using trolleys with up to like 40 items
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laborious Lee self jerking themselves
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out and I stood there in the queue
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waiting to use my three items on the
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self checkout because I felt this
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pressure or guilt or something coming
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from somewhere that I couldn't use he
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came and check out with so few items oh
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reading two things first of all that
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this story just confirms to me like you
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don't know how to supermarket there's
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something is that that that invalidates
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everything I've ever told me about your
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supermarket use and secondly I feel like
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you're also in a supermarket in an
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alternate universe like who's going to
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the self-checkout with a trough like
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I've never seen such a thing where
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someone goes to the self yet to be fair
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that freaked me out I swear she had at
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least 40 items in her trolley and she
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was very slow I was like why okay but
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does your supermarket not have a ten
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items or fewer Lane that would absolve
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your guilt of having the few items
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yeah and that's right next to the
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self-checkout but once I'd gotten there
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I thought I well I might as well do the
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self check but there were all these
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empty lanes up ahead and I don't know
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whether it's just in my head or there is
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some yeah it's just rescher that's
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happening in society now where if you've
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got few items it's considered bad to use
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a checkout person but I felt like I
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okay I think this is all in your head
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but I'm curious madness do you feel that
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there is some kind of social norm that
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is spreading here yet if you have small
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items you have to use the the
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self-checkout yeah I feel like if you're
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like a young able-bodied person there's
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a few items like where I was you know in
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looking all super fit in my gym gear and
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all my style yeah I'm a you know with my
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three items so then if I went into like
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the lane for the people with trolleys or
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people who struggle to do things
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themselves they'd look at me and go what
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are you doing here like okay you're
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doing this yourself you're like what are
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you so you feel like the human checkout
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lanes are not for it the physically fits
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and with small items like is that where
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you feel like this is going like you
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need a bunch of stuff yeah where you
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need difficulty that must be it I felt
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like I would be abusing a privilege hmm
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which I know is stupid and like it keeps
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people in a job if I use that line yeah
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but I felt like it would be lazy of me
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to have used it it just happened tonight
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I would I walk towards and I thought now
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I can't do it I've got to go and do the
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self checkout even though I've got to
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walk all the way to the other end of the
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store and then go in a line and then do
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the checking out myself which I hate
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doing and I'm not good at I have this
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mental image of you walking past ten
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cashiers every one of them with their
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eyes on you watching you walk past
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thinking that guy is part of the problem
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that guy is why I'm gonna get fired next
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week because he won't use one of these
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checkout lanes I know it may be a rut it
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was a weird thing I thought you'd be
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pleased by it but I couldn't believe I
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was doing it I think he just confirms to
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me that we have wildly different
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Supermarket experiences and that makes
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no sense I feel like there's a related
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question here about social expectations
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around the use of common areas in this
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way so here's a question hmm
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there's a bunch of bathrooms one of the
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bathrooms has the handicap symbol on it
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yeah all of the bathrooms that you could
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use except for that one are full hmm
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what do you do in the scenario Brady
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probably white you'd wait interesting is
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anyone there that can see me there is a
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security camera in the in the hallway
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all right so you're looking at like a
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bunch of doors and there's a hallway and
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there's a security camera I mean I'd be
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less worried about a security camera
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the people but this is why I picked that
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in particular there's no human yeah but
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you are not purely on your own if I was
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capable of waiting okay I would most
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likely wait if the situation felt like
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it was becoming urgent I may go into the
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unused one but if I could wait I would
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probably wait what about you I have
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always been of the opinion very firmly
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that those bathrooms are handicap
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accessible they are not handicap
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exclusive right I am perfectly happy
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without any social guilt whatsoever to
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stroll right into the handicapped
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bathroom oh so though the times I have
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used those toilets I actually find all
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that extra space quite disconcerting to
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use a toilet and have like a really long
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long way away to the door and have all
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that open space around me I find quite
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unnerving don't you is it like bathroom
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agoraphobia is that what you're saying
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yeah kind of like I don't want to be
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using a bathroom with that much space
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around me and lend me that far from the
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door because if like someone opens the
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door or tries to open the door I'm too
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far away to do anything about it that is
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a good point if you forget to latch it
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you don't have the ability to emergency
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slam yeah at the door and save everyone
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the embarrassment of what's happening
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all it's going to happen is the door
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opens and there you are exposed to the
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world I'm picturing that frog walking in
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there yeah he just opens the door and
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stands there and smiles at you that's
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what the Frog does he's not even there
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to use the bathroom he's just there to
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watch I noticed that you have changed
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your Twitter handle and picture to get
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into the Halloween theme you have
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succumbed to the pumpkin pressure how
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ways becomes a pumpkin pressure I don't
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know about that you did you think that's
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a fair description of what what occurred
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oh well I mean either that or someone
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just suggested such a cracking name
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you obviously have extremely creative
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friends here's the thing Brady sometimes
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you hear an idea and you just know the
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idea is irresistible I feel like it's
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not actually pumpkin pressure I just
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like that idea was too good to pass on
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and plus unbeknownst to you at the time
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of recording I was immediately after
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going to be posting a video that was
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related to death and so like as soon as
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that show was over I was like I can't
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not do this I have no free will in this
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scenario I'm going to have to change my
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name to r.i.p gray is not even a choice
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so are you happy though do you feel you
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feel pleased with yourself I do you feel
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like a little sense of ownership
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obviously because you then put a death
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video didn't make me wonder would you
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have done it if you didn't have a death
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video in the works but I think you would
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have I think it was a good enough idea
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that you would to be fair I the death
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video thing made it perfect it made it
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absolutely perfect in the world but it
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was it struck me as just such a good
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idea and said such again masterful
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wordsmithing partic of a Brady Haran
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mm-hmm I think had the stars not aligned
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you would still have had a pretty good
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chance of getting me to do that can I
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just say this whole with this people
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changing their names to halloween-themed
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and changing their avatars and that
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the thing about it that bothers me the
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most and I don't know if it was hammered
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home enough in the last episode so I
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just this is one point I want to make
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it's not so much my problem with doing
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it it's how long people do it for they
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should just do it on the day of
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Halloween like just on yeah first change
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your name to something spooky we all
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have a laugh doing it for the whole
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month you know did I don't think they
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celebrate at the end of World War 2 for
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a month we change things for Halloween
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for a whole month I have to completely
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agree with you on that and and also I
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agree that we didn't hammer at home well
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enough and in the previous show it's
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like it could be fun for a day but the
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length of time it's just too much it's
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just too long and even the whole r.i.p
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gray thing i was aware that i felt like
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it was a little soon to do it anyway hmm
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halloween is fantastic as we both agree
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one of the best holidays in the year
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everybody loves Halloween but doing it
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for an entire month is just too long I'm
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also gonna say like I especially think
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Halloween is a holiday that really
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doesn't serve being stretched out for a
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long period of time like Christmas I can
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kind of get on board with
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and Christmas from like Thanksgiving
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until Christmas it's like okay well we
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just have a time of year that is merry
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and filled with lights
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it's the season it's a season yeah it's
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a Christmas season and I'm fine with
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that I don't like it with it six months
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in advance right but I can deal
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essentially with two months of Christmas
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that's fine but a month of Halloween is
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like if we had Valentine's Day and you
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started Valentine's Day stuff January
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7th yeah no more Halloween stretching
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people feet oh come on
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one day the build-up week I enjoy the
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week build at work yeah building like a
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week before seeing the decorations go up
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but but Lex they sell pumpkins so long
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before Halloween that I think there's no
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way those pumpkins are still gonna be
◼
►
good by Halloween I feel like there's a
◼
►
delicate line which I'm okay with sort
◼
►
of fall themed decorations maybe up to a
◼
►
month before Halloween and in that case
◼
►
is like while putting out some pumpkins
◼
►
okay pumpkins a little a little close
◼
►
but like if you want to put out a squash
◼
►
I'm very okay with that right but it's
◼
►
like where do we draw the line of what
◼
►
becomes a Halloween decoration between
◼
►
whatever it is just like seasonal
◼
►
decoration I don't know exactly where to
◼
►
draw that line but I just need to
◼
►
specify you know for the record here
◼
►
that I'm okay with some fall themed
◼
►
decorations leading up to Halloween but
◼
►
Halloween is spiders and ghosts and
◼
►
skulls and witches and werewolves and
◼
►
vampires and all that stuff that's week
◼
►
before tops in the previous episode I
◼
►
said and I spoke on behalf of my home
◼
►
nation of Australia that when we
◼
►
pronounce the word Lego we say Lego and
◼
►
you were quite surprised by this you
◼
►
were like oh what a funny way to say
◼
►
Lego and I'm telling you but it was an
◼
►
Australian ISM I had never come across
◼
►
it was an Australian in Australia we say
◼
►
Lego can you imagine my horror when my
◼
►
fellow Australians started calling me on
◼
►
and saying what are you talking about
◼
►
ready it's Lego goodness is this like
◼
►
have I just alone been doing it all this
◼
►
yeah was this a joke that your family
◼
►
pulled on you yeah I think all families
◼
►
have that thing that they do which i
◼
►
think is kind of strange where a kid is
◼
►
mispronouncing something in a funny way
◼
►
and the whole family just lets it slide
◼
►
for what seems like a really long time
◼
►
like maybe your family did this with you
◼
►
and Lego well anyway I was a bit worried
◼
►
so I did a bit more research a bit more
◼
►
polling a bit more informal surveying of
◼
►
people out there and also reading some
◼
►
articles and it turns out saying Lego
◼
►
instead of Lego is a South Australian
◼
►
thing it's something that a lot of
◼
►
people from my home state of South
◼
►
Australia the capital of which is
◼
►
Adelaide right say so it's actually a
◼
►
regional pronunciation that I was
◼
►
forcing upon you not all Australians
◼
►
probably not even all South Australians
◼
►
for all I know but it's a very South
◼
►
Australian thing to say Lego and I've
◼
►
since learned there are other little
◼
►
enclaves of Canada and the United States
◼
►
like certain regions or states and areas
◼
►
where I was also getting a high Lego
◼
►
pronunciation so there are little
◼
►
pockets of Lego out there but it wasn't
◼
►
like a whole countrywide thing and I
◼
►
just wanted to clarify that I'm just
◼
►
pulling up a map of Australia here
◼
►
because when you say South Australia
◼
►
yeah do you do you mean oh this is
◼
►
embarrassing is the word province is
◼
►
what's the the subdivision there States
◼
►
States okay do you mean the state of
◼
►
South Australia or do you mean southern
◼
►
Australia like the bottom half of
◼
►
Australia I mean the state of South
◼
►
Australia because Victoria and New South
◼
►
Wales which Theora I would also appear
◼
►
to be southern states right other more
◼
►
popular states and they do not say Lego
◼
►
they were the ones who were jumping what
◼
►
do you mean - my eyes is there some way
◼
►
that they're not more southern it's a
◼
►
little known fact outside of Australia
◼
►
but South Australia which is not the
◼
►
southernmost Australian state by far is
◼
►
actually differently than it really is
◼
►
okay you are right but to defend myself
◼
►
if you lived in Australia you would
◼
►
refer to those as the eastern states
◼
►
Victorian New South Wales and Queensland
◼
►
you would say the eastern states where
◼
►
are you from arm from the east coast I'm
◼
►
from the eastern states so even though
◼
►
south wales are very southern they are
◼
►
referred to as eastern this is the
◼
►
linguistic southern verse yes yes I just
◼
►
want to clear that up to reduce the
◼
►
amount of feedback that you weren't
◼
►
getting from someone from Perth
◼
►
complaining that people in the southern
◼
►
don't say leg oh I know my Australian
◼
►
geography here Brady it's just exciting
◼
►
to hear you talking about these places
◼
►
to be honest yeah do you like that yeah
◼
►
we could talk about a little Northern
◼
►
Territory Darwin Northern Territory of
◼
►
course is not a state right it's a
◼
►
territory there's sometimes talk about
◼
►
giving the Northern Territory statehood
◼
►
but it hasn't happened yet they drink a
◼
►
lot of beer in the Northern Territory oh
◼
►
yeah the highest beer consumption per
◼
►
capita of anywhere in the world well I
◼
►
mean it looks like if you're in Darwin
◼
►
you're very far from everything else so
◼
►
yeah what are you gonna do you're gonna
◼
►
say Lego and you're gonna drink your
◼
►
beer you're gonna drink your beer hello
◼
►
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stock which is also a pain with some
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audio ridiculously cheaper than it was
◼
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before so of course in the great
◼
►
tradition of hello internet it feels
◼
►
like as soon as we talk about a thing
◼
►
the whole world around that thing
◼
►
changes yeah I'm sure
◼
►
because of the show we are influences
◼
►
yes we are influencers shapers shapers
◼
►
of culture yeah by no means is this the
◼
►
car effect or when you buy a car you see
◼
►
it everywhere it's not that at all it's
◼
►
like it's it's like a reverse the secret
◼
►
right we think about a thing in the
◼
►
whole world around us changes to bend to
◼
►
our thoughts that's just a straight line
◼
►
of causation it's a straight line of
◼
►
causation yeah so one of the things that
◼
►
has happened is we have been discussing
◼
►
emoji we have we've been discussing
◼
►
animal emoji in particular in some
◼
►
detail and B emoji in particular and
◼
►
complained about Apple B emoji guess
◼
►
what emoji is being changed in the next
◼
►
release of iOS Brady really the B emoji
◼
►
is getting an update that Ronna yeah now
◼
►
this brings up a thing that I
◼
►
I want to discuss with you so if you
◼
►
look at the link in a hit put in the
◼
►
show notes I am it is not just the B
◼
►
emoji that is getting changed there are
◼
►
five animal emoji that are getting
◼
►
changed in the next update to iOS okay
◼
►
the B the snail the octopus the whale
◼
►
and the dolphin okay on the image you
◼
►
are looking at the top row is the new
◼
►
version and the bottom row is the old
◼
►
version yes can you describe for the
◼
►
listeners what you're looking at and
◼
►
tell me your thoughts on these changes
◼
►
alright well let me talk you through it
◼
►
we do spend a lot of time talking about
◼
►
emojis for an audio medium but anyway I
◼
►
think emojis and podcasts is like peanut
◼
►
butter and jelly right they just go
◼
►
together perfectly so the old bee was
◼
►
like a big fat bully be with little tiny
◼
►
tiny stick legs and stinking antennae
◼
►
and now it's getting more substantial
◼
►
realistic insect D legs and beefed up
◼
►
antennae more realistic beefed up wings
◼
►
got a slightly droopy a sting yes it's
◼
►
true it is it does have a do Priya sting
◼
►
is a big bi as well yes sorry of course
◼
►
the change of the eye is the probably
◼
►
the most significant change from just a
◼
►
little lazy white dot when someone
◼
►
really wasn't trying to a more sort of
◼
►
realistic being three-dimensional dome
◼
►
like dark eye with even with a little
◼
►
bit of white reflection in it from the
◼
►
light from the camera that is somewhere
◼
►
off screen for this emoji or the window
◼
►
or whatever here okay a snail the main
◼
►
changes to the snail it's just got more
◼
►
detail that it's putting more sort of
◼
►
photo realism in there and again they've
◼
►
obviously decided the previous eyes that
◼
►
are on the end of the stalks on the head
◼
►
of the snail were just too small and
◼
►
insignificant and they've given it sort
◼
►
of slightly larger darker eyes are the
◼
►
bay and the snail also used to have two
◼
►
little human eyes on top of it stalks
◼
►
like if you zoom in there basically
◼
►
human eyes like nose eyes like that
◼
►
yeah so yes more realism there a bit
◼
►
more realism but not a dramatic change
◼
►
the octopus on the other hand they've
◼
►
gone in hard hmm because the old octopus
◼
►
and was sort of looking at you frontin
◼
►
and it looked like something that would
◼
►
be a child's toy or something you wanted
◼
►
to give a little cuddle to and
◼
►
significantly it also has four legs but
◼
►
the upgrade they've gone for more the
◼
►
killer octopus that you're scared will
◼
►
grab a ship and pull it underwater and
◼
►
again it looks more realistic it looks
◼
►
more aggressive if it's in a more
◼
►
aggressive pose oh yeah I just realized
◼
►
that actor pussy's doing like a little
◼
►
bicep curl with each arm they still have
◼
►
an up their game to eight legs they
◼
►
stopped at six well you know what can
◼
►
you do and you know there's just a
◼
►
little bit more texture on the head and
◼
►
again we've gone for more sort of
◼
►
realism moving on to the whale the whale
◼
►
again was super cute cutesy child's toy
◼
►
that would play with in the bath and
◼
►
they've kind of maintained the cutesy
◼
►
nurse it hasn't changed a tremendous
◼
►
amount they've put the eye in a more
◼
►
realistic place it still doesn't look
◼
►
like a very realistic whale and they've
◼
►
added a lot more fine detail to the
◼
►
water spout that it's blowing at the top
◼
►
and finally the dolphin dolphin again
◼
►
hasn't changed much it went from a
◼
►
pretty kind of run-of-the-mill artistic
◼
►
representation of a dolphin that's quite
◼
►
cutesy and they've pretty much kept it
◼
►
that way but they've just added more
◼
►
sort of texture and fluting and designed
◼
►
to the side of the dolphin and they've
◼
►
made the fins look a bit more real it
◼
►
still doesn't look like a real dolphin
◼
►
but they've given it more it looks more
◼
►
like something that would be a living
◼
►
thing rather than a drawing do you have
◼
►
a preference for the new versus the old
◼
►
like if you have to accept them as a
◼
►
package new versus old as a package I
◼
►
prefer the old I don't like the path
◼
►
they're going down here they're moving
◼
►
away from the spirit of emojis I agree
◼
►
with you 100% and in fact when I saw
◼
►
this image I liked I was thinking about
◼
►
our conversation last time about emojis
◼
►
a surprising amount you're talking about
◼
►
how songs get stuck in your head and
◼
►
you're thinking about them over and over
◼
►
again I found myself since our last
◼
►
recording constantly thinking about like
◼
►
what is the Platonic ideal of emoji
◼
►
right this is this is an idea that was
◼
►
just recurring in my brain over and over
◼
►
and while I was thinking that of course
◼
►
like our show goes out and then a couple
◼
►
of days later Apple as a direct result
◼
►
announces that they're going to change a
◼
►
bunch of the emoji and this image like
◼
►
this side-by-side image here of the five
◼
►
animals and how they're changing it it
◼
►
really crystallized something in my mind
◼
►
which is like I didn't like the Apple
◼
►
emojis all that much to begin with and
◼
►
now I really don't like them and it is
◼
►
because it's like Apple has lost the way
◼
►
of what an emoji is and the thing that
◼
►
crystallized in my mind is like oh I
◼
►
know what emoji are emoji are modern
◼
►
hieroglyphics and as such they need some
◼
►
level of abstraction like emojis are
◼
►
almost like an alphabet and the more I
◼
►
think you make it like a photograph
◼
►
which is the way Apple is clearly going
◼
►
like they're making them more photograph
◼
►
like more impossible to draw the less I
◼
►
feel like their emoji the less I like
◼
►
them and I think there's also
◼
►
crystallized why in the last show we
◼
►
were talking about the blobs like the
◼
►
Android emojis would draw a family it
◼
►
would be a family of blobs like four
◼
►
little blob creatures like oh that's a
◼
►
family versus an increasingly realistic
◼
►
depiction of a family I could never
◼
►
quite put my finger on like why does
◼
►
that kind of bug me and now I know
◼
►
because I feel like some level of
◼
►
abstraction is intrinsic to what an
◼
►
emoji is and if you're taking away all
◼
►
abstraction I don't think it's an emoji
◼
►
anymore like it's just a picture
◼
►
I mean speculating on what's going on
◼
►
here because I think I kind of see
◼
►
what's going on here and why it's
◼
►
happening hmm and it all comes down to
◼
►
how you use your emoji okay tell me
◼
►
there are two main ways that I use my
◼
►
emoji the first way is when I'm sending
◼
►
text messages maybe to someone like you
◼
►
where we're exchanging a series of sms's
◼
►
and occasionally we'll drop an emoji and
◼
►
to be funny or express something and in
◼
►
that case the emoji is appearing in a
◼
►
line of text and ideally you want it to
◼
►
be about the size of the text
◼
►
yes it's sometimes it's in the line
◼
►
right and when that happens they small
◼
►
cute low detail emoji are ideal and the
◼
►
super detailed emoji seem in fact seem
◼
►
I can imagine these emoji at that size
◼
►
there is a second way that I use emoji
◼
►
though and there is when I'm on snapchat
◼
►
sometimes I'll take a picture and I want
◼
►
to add an emoji to the picture and when
◼
►
you do that you make your emojis much
◼
►
bigger where I drag them onto the screen
◼
►
and then you pinch with your fingers
◼
►
outwards to make them bigger and bigger
◼
►
so they become almost a feature of the
◼
►
picture like I might take a picture of
◼
►
the sea and then say oh wouldn't it be
◼
►
funny if I put a big emoji whale in
◼
►
there swimming in the sea right and if I
◼
►
do that the emoji becomes very big and
◼
►
in that case the detail starts having
◼
►
some use and in some ways I see more
◼
►
utility in the detailed ones and the
◼
►
very low detail emojis when they're
◼
►
blown up big become quite unusable and
◼
►
they just sort of look out of place and
◼
►
wrong they don't work so I don't use
◼
►
them so I think what's happening is
◼
►
they're seeing more and more people are
◼
►
using their emojis as these huge
◼
►
decorative ornaments in sort of picture
◼
►
based communication and they're being
◼
►
used to less and less as a punctuation
◼
►
mark in a sentence and maybe that's why
◼
►
they're changing the emojis in this way
◼
►
and for me that's a shame because I
◼
►
still prefer the use of emoji in
◼
►
sentences and text you know in a tweet
◼
►
or a text to someone so these detailed
◼
►
ones are doing me a disservice but I can
◼
►
imagine on snapchat these ones will be a
◼
►
bit handier that's an interesting
◼
►
distinction I have a like a slightly
◼
►
more cynical interpretation Apple is
◼
►
rolling out this an emoji feature with
◼
►
their new phone where you can have the
◼
►
emoji be animated okay I have a
◼
►
suspicion that Apple is setting up all
◼
►
of these emoji as being animated things
◼
►
in the future to maybe integrate with
◼
►
face recognition on their phone or to be
◼
►
able to do things with maybe or maybe
◼
►
not someone spent a lot of time looking
◼
►
through the history of all the Apple
◼
►
emoji and seeing the direction they were
◼
►
going in who knows but if you were to do
◼
►
that there's a clear arrow toward
◼
►
increasing detail and especially
◼
►
suddenly like way more detail I suspect
◼
►
that that's where they're going with
◼
►
this but that aside on all platforms
◼
►
you're totally right that there are two
◼
►
different use cases there's in line with
◼
►
text and there is out of line with text
◼
►
but what makes an emoji and emoji versus
◼
►
like the concept of a sticker which many
◼
►
platforms have is that an emoji can
◼
►
exist in line with text that's what it
◼
►
is yeah like I feel very strongly that
◼
►
that is that at the level that the
◼
►
design should be at and at that level
◼
►
you have to have a some abstraction
◼
►
built into the design you can't just
◼
►
have a tiny picture of the thing you
◼
►
have to have some level of abstraction
◼
►
but yeah big giant detailed emojis
◼
►
everywhere that's where we're going I do
◼
►
think your emoji theory is more likely
◼
►
right actually if I have to weigh up my
◼
►
theory which involves Apple saying let's
◼
►
make emojis that are more useful for our
◼
►
customers or your theory which is let's
◼
►
make emojis which will sell more iPhones
◼
►
gee how does that board meeting go
◼
►
amongst the sort of the the first world
◼
►
youtuber problems that we grew up about
◼
►
most freebooting must be up there and
◼
►
I've been at another freebooting victim
◼
►
recently but it did highlight one of my
◼
►
little gripes about freebooters that I
◼
►
don't think I've raised before I know is
◼
►
there some depth left unplumbed on this
◼
►
topic is shocking I think you'll
◼
►
appreciate this one and I think it comes
◼
►
from a confusion that people have about
◼
►
using things fairly fair use and things
◼
►
like that and it's maybe a confusion
◼
►
that someone like you has helped foster
◼
►
with some of our previous conversations
◼
►
although I don't think like you're the
◼
►
root of the problem here I just think
◼
►
it's like because people have probably
◼
►
heard us in the past often talk about
◼
►
you know percentages like when we were
◼
►
talking about that recent fair use thing
◼
►
there was you know what percentage of
◼
►
the video was taken and stuff right so
◼
►
this is what I'll just give you the
◼
►
practical example because this shows the
◼
►
example perfectly I got some alert or
◼
►
something on my system saying or
◼
►
someone's you know free btg video go and
◼
►
check it so I went along and did my
◼
►
check because I always have a look and
◼
►
see what's this is in the YouTube
◼
►
content in the YouTube backend because
◼
►
sometimes they haven't free booted or it
◼
►
is fair use so it's not even my content
◼
►
and things like that so
◼
►
go and have a look so I find this video
◼
►
it's this math video of mine and the
◼
►
freebooter in question has taken like a
◼
►
huge chunk of the video like not the
◼
►
whole video but say three or four
◼
►
minutes consecutive unedited and
◼
►
commented it's just a really nice
◼
►
explanation of a mathematical concept
◼
►
with nice animations and it was very
◼
►
useful to this person so they've taken
◼
►
that piece of my video and they've
◼
►
dropped it into a video they've made
◼
►
that's about an hour long I imagine is
◼
►
made to be like a lecture or a lesson or
◼
►
something it's a big long video and
◼
►
partway through they've obviously said
◼
►
ah to understand this concept here we go
◼
►
and then they'll play my video for three
◼
►
or four minutes and then they crack on
◼
►
with whatever they were doing in their
◼
►
video just drummed it in and in there
◼
►
kind of thing that they wrote where they
◼
►
like defend to why this is fair use
◼
►
their defense was this is fair use
◼
►
because I used four minutes of your
◼
►
video but that is only ten percent of my
◼
►
whole video because my whole video only
◼
►
ten percent of it is to your video
◼
►
that's fair use because that's hardly
◼
►
anything and all the rest of it came
◼
►
from other places so I haven't free
◼
►
booted you and I think that's ridiculous
◼
►
I mean that's a new one to me I haven't
◼
►
come across that before I've seen it a
◼
►
few times I mean by that rationale I
◼
►
could upload all of Star Wars and as
◼
►
long as I tagged another 30 hours on the
◼
►
end of it of me just juggling I can say
◼
►
hey I didn't free boot Star Wars because
◼
►
it's only ten percent of my video yeah
◼
►
or anything like I'm just gonna go
◼
►
around and make a compilation of all of
◼
►
the funniest videos on YouTube right and
◼
►
for each individual content creator week
◼
►
oh but you're only 1% of the total thing
◼
►
that has been created yeah it's like if
◼
►
I walked around Bristol and punched 50
◼
►
people in the face and one of them came
◼
►
up to me said hey he just assaulted me
◼
►
and said hey no no I punched 50 people
◼
►
in the face metaphor escalation here
◼
►
you haven't been assaulted because lots
◼
►
of other stuff has happened so you
◼
►
so I guess did you see this a lot like
◼
►
people are using your videos in in like
◼
►
a longer selection of other thing cuz I
◼
►
think that is interesting yes that is
◼
►
quite common like someone will make like
◼
►
a big long lesson and you know today I
◼
►
to you all the ins and outs of calculus
◼
►
and to do so I'm gonna like go and
◼
►
cherry-pick all the best explanations of
◼
►
every concept ever and put them all
◼
►
together in a big mashup hmm but it's
◼
►
not like they've taken like a few
◼
►
seconds and critiqued it or used it like
◼
►
it's just a complete section like a big
◼
►
section being used because that's just
◼
►
you know useful to them but don't you
◼
►
want to spread knowledge of calculus
◼
►
around the world I'm sure part of the
◼
►
justification also had some line about
◼
►
are this video is you know it's it did
◼
►
say although I'm making money from it
◼
►
it's educational I don't know what
◼
►
happened but basically I press the
◼
►
button to say I don't agree with this
◼
►
and I don't know what's gonna happen
◼
►
next I don't know how the system works I
◼
►
think after a while YouTube just drop it
◼
►
don't neighbor well you can end up
◼
►
getting all the revenue from the ads
◼
►
that are running on their video right
◼
►
that's the thing that can happen but if
◼
►
they then say no no I disagree ten
◼
►
what does YouTube do now do they then
◼
►
say well now what do you say Brady are
◼
►
you gonna take them to court if there's
◼
►
this Mexican standoff and you're no
◼
►
one's willing to go to court who wins in
◼
►
it's the person with the copyright claim
◼
►
win right we have this actually with the
◼
►
hello internet video that was uploaded
◼
►
several episodes ago when we talked
◼
►
about the I can't say the name of the
◼
►
song but the Melissa Florian whatever
◼
►
yeah that Italian one right the Italian
◼
►
one and so I put that song in the
◼
►
podcast for people to hear yeah just
◼
►
like a sample here's what it sounds like
◼
►
hooligan debate whether or not that was
◼
►
like too much or not enough right this
◼
►
is always the ambiguities of copyright
◼
►
well greg was only 0.01% of our podcast
◼
►
so I think we're safe yeah I may have
◼
►
used thirty seconds of the song but the
◼
►
podcast is really long yeah but so
◼
►
anyway there was a like as I kind of
◼
►
expected there was going to be there was
◼
►
a copyright claim on that yeah and I
◼
►
went through the little appeals process
◼
►
like I think this is fair use and the
◼
►
copyright holder came back and said no
◼
►
they disagree and the way the YouTube
◼
►
system works which I think YouTube
◼
►
should definitely improve is that all of
◼
►
the ad revenue on that podcast goes to
◼
►
the copyright holder for that song yeah
◼
►
to me seems like a little much even if
◼
►
you were in the wrong and use too much
◼
►
of it which I don't think you did but
◼
►
fact that from that hole to our podcast
◼
►
they now get all the revenue because we
◼
►
used 40 seconds of their song instead of
◼
►
yeah it's a weird system it seems like
◼
►
from everything I've seen with other
◼
►
Creators and the stuff I've had
◼
►
first-hand experience on that like one
◼
►
copyright holder becomes the one who
◼
►
wins like who's the one that's most
◼
►
wronged and that person is the one who
◼
►
ends up with the claim on the revenue
◼
►
from the advertising dollars no well
◼
►
what are you gonna do
◼
►
what are you gonna do you got to pick
◼
►
your fights don't you yeah then you pick
◼
►
that fight told that guy now well I
◼
►
don't know what's gonna happen
◼
►
sing we're talking about YouTube fights
◼
►
should we deal with my other one that's
◼
►
bubbling a look at the moment yeah so my
◼
►
other little YouTube problem at the
◼
►
moment gray is I have had another video
◼
►
demonetized put into the sin bin of
◼
►
advertising deemed inappropriate and
◼
►
unfriendly for advertising and instead
◼
►
of that nice green tick you get next to
◼
►
a video saying no you can have ads on
◼
►
this video I have the dreaded yellow
◼
►
tick of naughtiness brainy I just have
◼
►
to ask why do you keep uploading
◼
►
inappropriate videos to YouTube I mean
◼
►
where there's smoke there's fire right
◼
►
you give me an example
◼
►
oh there's one where you're uploading
◼
►
deranged videos to YouTube and you get
◼
►
this slap down but you keep doing it you
◼
►
seem to not be able to help yourself
◼
►
yeah I keep pushing the boundaries if
◼
►
it's allowed you keep uploading all
◼
►
these inappropriate videos do you do
◼
►
that they're not advertiser friendly I
◼
►
don't know what you're up to over there
◼
►
on objectivity those of you who don't
◼
►
watch objectivity and how dare you not
◼
►
watch it why how dare you but if you
◼
►
somehow a measly episode we did a video
◼
►
about this guy called Eadweard Muybridge
◼
►
who you may not know the name but in the
◼
►
1800s was bit of a big deal he came up
◼
►
with this way of taking in the early
◼
►
days of photography of taking multiple
◼
►
pictures very quickly in succession
◼
►
sometimes being tripped by strings and
◼
►
things like that and he used other
◼
►
technology that he pioneered yeah to
◼
►
show things that were happening quickly
◼
►
like a horse running yeah I feel like
◼
►
everybody in the world even if you don't
◼
►
everyone's seen that video clip of like
◼
►
here is the first time we had
◼
►
motion video in a way horse running he's
◼
►
the guy who did that because there was
◼
►
actually a debate whether you know all
◼
►
the horses hooves were off the ground at
◼
►
given time and stuff so he he wanted to
◼
►
break it down he then started filming
◼
►
everything he could use this camera
◼
►
system at so anyway he started taking
◼
►
all these pictures to show animal
◼
►
locomotion and then he also started
◼
►
showing human locomotion so he would
◼
►
show humans doing things like walking
◼
►
and running and using an axe and fencing
◼
►
and wrestling and all these different
◼
►
things so it could be studied in detail
◼
►
and not only was it like you know a lot
◼
►
of scientific breakthroughs were being
◼
►
made this was leading towards obviously
◼
►
movies and moving pictures because
◼
►
you've got this quick see he was like
◼
►
the first slow-mo guy I like to think it
◼
►
was it was in slow-mo they were playing
◼
►
it back in real time well no but like it
◼
►
was using like a high-speed camera to
◼
►
show things that were too fast for the
◼
►
eye to see okay he's kind of doing that
◼
►
same thing you know it was a high frame
◼
►
rate for the time okay
◼
►
all right because we had no frame yeah
◼
►
12 frames per second it's amazing so you
◼
►
know when he was taking pictures of
◼
►
humans doing stuff they were usually not
◼
►
wearing clothing because you wanted to
◼
►
be able to see you know muscles and the
◼
►
way the leg was moving and the arm was
◼
►
moving and if it was all covered in
◼
►
clothes you wouldn't be seeing it so I
◼
►
uploaded this video all about all these
◼
►
old pictures and what he did and we
◼
►
showed videos of a rah rah rah you can
◼
►
imagine and in the course of the video
◼
►
we showed lots of these pictures we
◼
►
animated some of them to make them into
◼
►
little movies mhm now the video has
◼
►
naked people in it you know we left a
◼
►
lot out that we thought was a little bit
◼
►
maybe a little bit confrontational we
◼
►
haven't got like you know things
◼
►
dangling in people's faces and it's not
◼
►
- you know I thought we were restrained
◼
►
yeah you left out the slo-mo pillow
◼
►
fight that he had filmed as well in the
◼
►
off hours yeah like that stuff wasn't in
◼
►
there was a lot of stuff that maybe
◼
►
could be construed as a bit risque but
◼
►
you know that we didn't use any of that
◼
►
it was just you know it was all pretty
◼
►
normal stuff but there were occasional
◼
►
glimpses of parts of the body here and
◼
►
there but it was I thought it was a wrap
◼
►
the YouTube's automatic system to its
◼
►
credit unless someone flagged it to its
◼
►
credit flags this is inappropriate
◼
►
I disagreed with that I appealed it
◼
►
asking for a manual review the manual
◼
►
review has been conducted and the manual
◼
►
review has come back saying no that's
◼
►
inappropriate so as it stands now the
◼
►
video is unavailable for monetization
◼
►
objectivity videos aren't massively
◼
►
watched so like this is not costing me
◼
►
an amount of money that concerns me but
◼
►
I am concerned about like the bigger
◼
►
issue not like you know I'm a campaigner
◼
►
I'm gonna change the world kind of way
◼
►
but I do think it speaks to a bigger
◼
►
issue about like art and showing things
◼
►
and what's right and what's wrong and
◼
►
what's suitable and not suitable you
◼
►
have watch the video have you or yeah no
◼
►
I watch the video alright tell me your
◼
►
thoughts well first of all I recommend
◼
►
everybody watch it cuz it was just
◼
►
interesting to see I didn't know the
◼
►
extra detail is about this work somehow
◼
►
assume that the horse thing was like
◼
►
one-off and seeing the animated early
◼
►
videos of human motion was really
◼
►
interesting I just genuinely liked it as
◼
►
an objectivity video thank you but I was
◼
►
watching this video and my perspective
◼
►
on it was you selected video like so
◼
►
when people hear you describe it right
◼
►
you listener like whatever is in your
◼
►
head when Brady just described the video
◼
►
I can guarantee you what's in your head
◼
►
is ten times more explicit than what is
◼
►
in the actual video imagine a man
◼
►
walking in a low-resolution image who's
◼
►
walking sideways across the camera with
◼
►
extraordinarily convenient leg placement
◼
►
95% of the time that's what's in the
◼
►
video the level of nudity for the parts
◼
►
that people care about is so trivial in
◼
►
this video now when you say it was
◼
►
flagged immediately that I'm not
◼
►
surprised because from talking to people
◼
►
who would know about these things
◼
►
my understanding is that if there is one
◼
►
thing that the army of artificial
◼
►
intelligence bots at YouTube are
◼
►
extraordinarily good at recognizing it's
◼
►
naked people know that this is a thing
◼
►
that the AIS have been trained on and
◼
►
they can spot very reliably very
◼
►
they have high-class Willie recognition
◼
►
exactly right and this is to YouTube's
◼
►
total credit like I have in my whole
◼
►
life I think never ever seen anything
◼
►
that remotely is pornography on the
◼
►
channel right like they are deadly
◼
►
serious and it's a relatively
◼
►
straightforward thing for the system to
◼
►
try to automatically flag as people
◼
►
without clothing so I'm not surprised it
◼
►
was caught instantly in the trap yeah
◼
►
but I really think this is a very
◼
►
interesting case that if this was
◼
►
manually reviewed by an actual human I'm
◼
►
gonna say I think this is kind of
◼
►
outrageous to be classified as a video
◼
►
that cannot be monetized I really think
◼
►
this is like if you had a video where
◼
►
you showed the Statue of David yeah
◼
►
there's something about this that really
◼
►
bothers me right where it's like artwork
◼
►
or anything of scientific value is so
◼
►
far on the one end of this extreme that
◼
►
is like if we can't agree that this is
◼
►
acceptable I feel like all hope is lost
◼
►
if this is not acceptable I feel like
◼
►
we've fallen into some kind of crazy
◼
►
land where you can never know who knows
◼
►
what's acceptable now I find it
◼
►
genuinely upsetting that this has been
◼
►
again if it was a human that this is the
◼
►
verdict that has come down on this okay
◼
►
just very quickly on that if it's not a
◼
►
human that's even worse because that
◼
►
they make it absolutely clear you have
◼
►
no right to appeal there's nothing that
◼
►
can be done about it the judge's
◼
►
decision is final so if I've been turned
◼
►
down by AI twice mm-hmm and no
◼
►
correspondence will be entered into then
◼
►
that is a little bit unfair but yeah we
◼
►
don't know we don't know if it's a human
◼
►
or not so we don't know I just say if
◼
►
it's a human because I have some very
◼
►
strong suspicions that at least some
◼
►
portion of those manual reviews are not
◼
►
actually going to a human that there's a
◼
►
bot that's doing the first pass and
◼
►
maybe it gets kicked up to a human maybe
◼
►
it doesn't I don't have anything to
◼
►
prove that but I just have a suspicion
◼
►
that maybe that's partly the case yeah
◼
►
anyway on the broader issue I'm the
◼
►
first to admit if you pardon the pun
◼
►
that I have skin in the game here so I
◼
►
from the start that okay I'm a bit
◼
►
biased but I also think it's a little
◼
►
unfair I will say I do recognize that
◼
►
Statue of David numerous famous
◼
►
paintings you could mention venus de
◼
►
milo all these things and not
◼
►
photographs they're artworks but i mean
◼
►
these things i was using a very old from
◼
►
the 1800s black-and-white grainy
◼
►
pictures that are really historically
◼
►
it was the pioneering images that led to
◼
►
cinema it was really scientifically
◼
►
significant work like this is like
◼
►
important stuff in art and science right
◼
►
it is in no way sexual or sexually
◼
►
suggestive and that's what the youtubes
◼
►
terms talk about they don't talk about
◼
►
nudity as much as things that are you
◼
►
know sexually suggestive these are in
◼
►
roadway sexual and in kind of my like
◼
►
amusement I went and had a look and
◼
►
Google's own YouTube channel for art and
◼
►
culture has numerous videos that show
◼
►
naked bits of art interesting they even
◼
►
have one where like it's popping up in
◼
►
front of a little kid and the little
◼
►
kids giggling although isn't that funny
◼
►
because you know the person's not
◼
►
wearing clothes and they have one way
◼
►
that they could person's on like an iPad
◼
►
screen and the kids like you know
◼
►
manipulating it to zoom in and look at
◼
►
it and things like that
◼
►
like on their own channel they're quite
◼
►
comfortable with nude art mm-hmm so I do
◼
►
know the difference between photos and
◼
►
art but if that's the defense which I
◼
►
don't know what the defense is because I
◼
►
haven't heard anything it doesn't wash
◼
►
with me and what do I have to do now
◼
►
should I have uploaded that video with
◼
►
big you know black boxes over the top
◼
►
supposed to do that kind of stuff drives
◼
►
me even more crazy that would make me
◼
►
that would make everyone look stupid and
◼
►
it makes everyone look stupid and it
◼
►
also falls again into my very strong
◼
►
feelings about this that like when you
◼
►
go crazy about the prohibition of a
◼
►
thing whatever that thing is is like
◼
►
guess what you're the one who's making
◼
►
it powerful or you're making it into a
◼
►
thing that it isn't and so that's why
◼
►
it's like if you start putting black
◼
►
bars over like as we're had
◼
►
this discussion I have on screen in
◼
►
front of me probably the most in quotes
◼
►
suggestive part which is a 135 where you
◼
►
have the three film strips of the man
◼
►
walking to the side the man walking
◼
►
front and the man walking back you have
◼
►
this blown up on a 27-inch screen that's
◼
►
two feet from my face at HD resolution
◼
►
right but of course I'm looking at a
◼
►
thing that's from the 1800s
◼
►
that's filmed at an angle there's not
◼
►
four pixels of detail in this image here
◼
►
to put a black bar over it is like a
◼
►
mockery it's like what are you hiding
◼
►
all that black bar is doing is like oh
◼
►
right this is the black bar of shame
◼
►
right because this is the thing that can
◼
►
never be seen putting black bars on it
◼
►
would sexualize err you don't get a
◼
►
picture of Michelangelo's David and you
◼
►
think that's a nice sculpture you put a
◼
►
big black bar over his private parts and
◼
►
suddenly it seems more sexual yeah it
◼
►
totally does there was a meme a few
◼
►
years ago which was fantastic where
◼
►
people were pixel izing parts of
◼
►
innocuous photos and it's amazing how
◼
►
sexually suggestive you can make a
◼
►
totally normal photo by very strategic
◼
►
pixelization of particular moments so
◼
►
the mean was you sure like the before
◼
►
and after like with the pixelization or
◼
►
without there's another meme which is
◼
►
about like seeing the nudity and it's it
◼
►
works surprisingly well were you take a
◼
►
photograph of a fully clothed person and
◼
►
you just put transparent circles on that
◼
►
photograph in strategic spots and it's
◼
►
so crazy but like your brain sort of
◼
►
fills in what the person looked like
◼
►
this kind of censorship I legitimately
◼
►
think makes it more of what it isn't it
◼
►
would be crazy for you to put black bars
◼
►
on this video it would 100% achieve the
◼
►
exact opposite purpose and make the very
◼
►
thing that isn't something into
◼
►
something so yeah it's so frustrating
◼
►
it's absolutely frustrating I'll just
◼
►
send you a tweet I did yesterday you
◼
►
know just as an another case in point I
◼
►
got a couple of famous cultural images
◼
►
so Brady's just sent me his tweet with
◼
►
famous man in the circle right with the
◼
►
black bar a strategically placed and the
◼
►
Venus de Milo with a bar across her
◼
►
oh yeah unambiguously the bar makes the
◼
►
images worse than they are without the
◼
►
bar it's the thin end of a wedge isn't
◼
►
it in terms of culture and history and
◼
►
that when we start having to push this
◼
►
stuff aside because we want to cater to
◼
►
advertisers who they think might be
◼
►
sensitive I'd be surprised if any
◼
►
advertisers were sensitive about this
◼
►
video by the way because what they're
◼
►
going to do in the long run I mean
◼
►
they're not going to change me but in
◼
►
the long run people are going to stop
◼
►
making the videos about certain subjects
◼
►
because they can't monetize them and
◼
►
then those subjects just fade out of
◼
►
existence you know is there a whole
◼
►
generation in period in art history that
◼
►
is going to be disproportionately less
◼
►
covered on YouTube because people can't
◼
►
show the paintings yeah I mean we've
◼
►
sort of skirted around this issue a
◼
►
couple of times on the show but this is
◼
►
why I think it's always dangerous to get
◼
►
into the content filtering game yeah I
◼
►
feel like all platforms should stay as
◼
►
far away from this as they possibly can
◼
►
because it is the thin end of the wedge
◼
►
there's no winning even if you think
◼
►
you're doing the right thing is like
◼
►
this is a perfect case like would any
◼
►
advertiser in the world actually care
◼
►
about this no but I know for a fact that
◼
►
this kind of D monetization does have a
◼
►
chilling effect on the kinds of content
◼
►
that people produce for the platform
◼
►
we've said it before but I think YouTube
◼
►
and platforms like it are big enough
◼
►
that I don't think you can play the oh
◼
►
it's just a company card anymore I think
◼
►
at a certain point it becomes so vital
◼
►
for speech that this kind of stuff
◼
►
really matters and this objectivity
◼
►
video is just like a perfect example
◼
►
because you have everything going for
◼
►
you like it's historically significant
◼
►
it's barely visible is the most
◼
►
innocuous video imaginable and if this
◼
►
can't get through the filter like what
◼
►
hope is there for anything that is
◼
►
remotely near and interesting
◼
►
edge there's no hope at all for that
◼
►
kind of content this episode's been
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►
brought to you by Backblaze unlimited
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take too much time on that today suffice
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to say I can think of nothing else that
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put onto like a little hard drive all
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the files I think I'll need while I'm
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away it could be video files I have to
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edit with personal bits and pieces that
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I think might need administering while
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I'm away and I'd do it sort of is always
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a bit of a mad rush it's always a bit
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last-minute but I always think I've got
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what I'm gonna need on one portable
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►
drive but then I got to America and you
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can guess what happened there was I
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think there was just one file I needed
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in some obscure folder that I'd forgot
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to drag across I didn't have access to I
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►
really really needed it but it didn't
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►
matter because Backblaze lets you
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remotely get into your backup from a
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phone or another computer if you've got
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all your passwords and everything you
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can get in and I was able to retrieve
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that one file I needed out on the road
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and I was able to get on with my work it
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was basically like I could just nip
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►
upstairs to my computer except I was on
◼
►
the other side of the world it was
◼
►
so not the big save from catastrophe
◼
►
that Backblaze is famous for but just a
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►
little bit of help on the road to put
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back players on your computer go to bat
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blaze comm slash hello internet there's
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a fully featured 15 day trial so you can
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just see how it works try before you buy
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I think once you try you
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that's what happened to me it's
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Backblaze dot-com / hello Internet by
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the way if you already have them
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yourself but you need them for business
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there's also a business backup feature -
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just click on the business backup link
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on their webpage Backblaze comm slash
◼
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hello internet as always our thanks to
◼
►
them for making such a great thing and
◼
►
also for supporting this podcast so
◼
►
great you have been a school student and
◼
►
you also have been a school teacher tell
◼
►
me what comes into your head or your
◼
►
memories or how you feel or what you
◼
►
think when I say to you school photos or
◼
►
class photos what emotion does this
◼
►
bring out in you what do you mean like
◼
►
you know like in a yearbook
◼
►
well did you presumably when you're at
◼
►
school like once a year would you have a
◼
►
photo taken of the whole class that
◼
►
would go into like yeah a yearbook or
◼
►
and your parents could buy one and would
◼
►
they take a loved one one of you on your
◼
►
own as well each year school look here's
◼
►
CGP grey when he was in year 2 and here
◼
►
he is in year 3 here his class photos
◼
►
all through the years school photos I
◼
►
haven't thought about this in forever
◼
►
this is something that maybe in another
◼
►
five years would have totally passed out
◼
►
of my mind but yes I'm glad I saved it
◼
►
oh right these are some neural pathways
◼
►
left untouched for a very long period of
◼
►
time well they can be quite damaging
◼
►
memories too like maybe you have
◼
►
repressed memories thing the one kid in
◼
►
the class photo who like has his or her
◼
►
eyes shut that sticks with you for years
◼
►
I mean I'll take your word for it
◼
►
but none of my memories are surfacing
◼
►
that piece of information
◼
►
you obviously have good photo face I'm
◼
►
terrible at having my photo taken is
◼
►
that what we're going to have here is
◼
►
Brady therapy corner for your old school
◼
►
photos well maybe it is I don't know let
◼
►
me tell you what's got me thinking about
◼
►
this let me send you a photo okay
◼
►
unfortunately I can't share this with
◼
►
the collective because it's a it
◼
►
involves a whole bunch of people whose
◼
►
permission we don't have right but this
◼
►
is the class photo of my nephew so my
◼
►
sister sent it to me and said have a
◼
►
look at the cute class photo this is not
◼
►
how I remember class photos looking but
◼
►
you know we live in a new age now whoa
◼
►
what what what it no this is weird this
◼
►
is not a class photo what do you think
◼
►
of that okay let me just set the
◼
►
vacation so in my head need class photo
◼
►
is you shuffle everybody down to the gym
◼
►
yeah and you're sitting on the bleachers
◼
►
so there's some height difference
◼
►
between everybody yeah maybe there's
◼
►
like a little plaque in the front where
◼
►
someone has put the words on that says
◼
►
what this is a photo of yeah and that's
◼
►
where you take the picture Jones Smith
◼
►
high schoo year three yeah
◼
►
1987 yeah you want to be real fancy you
◼
►
go outside into the bleachers so there's
◼
►
trees in the background that's wow you
◼
►
had some nice ones right I went to a
◼
►
very posh school would us be like the
◼
►
whole year level it would be broken into
◼
►
classes in homeroom so it's like groups
◼
►
of 30 or were you like a group of like a
◼
►
hundred or something like my rusty
◼
►
memories are that it like in primary
◼
►
school it was just the class yeah and
◼
►
that in high school they shuffled
◼
►
everybody out onto the bleachers yeah
◼
►
the whole bunch think but I could be
◼
►
wrong about that so explain this one
◼
►
that I sent to you I think most people
◼
►
have that image in their head hopefully
◼
►
that we've always done insane this is my
◼
►
nephew this is the new generation of
◼
►
class photos how would you describe this
◼
►
one okay well just like with movies I
◼
►
know you want my opinion at first I'm
◼
►
gonna give this class photo a thumbs
◼
►
down it's really weird
◼
►
and what makes it weird is okay so
◼
►
instead of the kids sitting in the
◼
►
bleachers they are all standing in a
◼
►
line next to each other so that it's
◼
►
just all of the kids in a big row facing
◼
►
the camera facing the camera facing wide
◼
►
like a panorama shot isn't it yeah it's
◼
►
I give you were there with your iPhone
◼
►
you would need to put it into panorama
◼
►
mode to take this picture
◼
►
yeah the background is an empty void of
◼
►
nothing it's just a pure white
◼
►
background which makes me wonder like
◼
►
was that they roll out the like the
◼
►
green screen for this this photograph it
◼
►
kind of looks like it is a clothing
◼
►
catalog for the uniform that these kids
◼
►
are wearing yeah like if I didn't know
◼
►
any better I would almost assume this
◼
►
was an advertisement in a magazine
◼
►
that's like hey look at these uniforms
◼
►
for these kids the kids are they're not
◼
►
just standing in a line all looking at
◼
►
the camera they look very posed and it
◼
►
looked very posed like it's and magazine
◼
►
was like oh here's a kid and the kids on
◼
►
either side have who were taller had
◼
►
their hands on his shoulder right Simon
◼
►
got their arms crossed and some have got
◼
►
like sassy poses with a hand on their on
◼
►
their hips yes I'm looking at a couple
◼
►
of the girls have like the very standard
◼
►
photo pose of hands on hips like one
◼
►
knee a little bit forward
◼
►
it looks really strange I have this
◼
►
feeling like a like again a kind of meme
◼
►
that you see sometimes on the Internet
◼
►
is where if you look in a catalog
◼
►
someone will sometimes post these images
◼
►
where you can see that the person doing
◼
►
the Photoshop job has messed up and
◼
►
there's an extra hand where a hand
◼
►
shouldn't be because someone was
◼
►
photoshopped out of the scene right or
◼
►
there's like something's really weird
◼
►
that you don't notice at first and this
◼
►
photo feels like I wouldn't be surprised
◼
►
to learn this is actually a composite
◼
►
photo of a bunch of shots gray it
◼
►
totally is they were photographed as
◼
►
like in twos or threes right okay
◼
►
separately and then they were all put
◼
►
together afterwards into this big long
◼
►
line yeah there's one that has like it's
◼
►
like a seam yeah it looks strange it's
◼
►
the one mistake they made the rest of it
◼
►
was actually done pretty well but I'm a
◼
►
little bit mortified by this I have some
◼
►
feelings about it but tell me why are
◼
►
you mortified I know I'm like old
◼
►
fashioned right and we live in this
◼
►
digital age but there are a few things
◼
►
about doing class photos so digitally
◼
►
and I've seen this a lot lately class
◼
►
photos now are amazing they're like
◼
►
they're so different to what they used
◼
►
to be they're like portraits one of my
◼
►
other nephews I saw his class photos the
◼
►
other day and it was like a photo shoot
◼
►
from another world with all that lovely
◼
►
bakker and you know everything's all
◼
►
amazing and there's like these candid
◼
►
poses rhinorrhea one thing which was in
◼
►
my old high school yearbook like the
◼
►
photographer came to the school and did
◼
►
the did the photo shoots and said
◼
►
everybody looks the same yeah but one of
◼
►
the girls her father worked in the
◼
►
fashion industry and like she had a
◼
►
photo that stood out right as as
◼
►
noticeably different because it was just
◼
►
crazy professional I do is never being
◼
►
like I was that kid I don't think I
◼
►
would want this so when you say that
◼
►
they look different I can easily imagine
◼
►
what you're talking about I don't know
◼
►
if there was just of rites of passage
◼
►
thing about class photos that I don't
◼
►
know it felt like it gave me life
◼
►
lessons and it was character building
◼
►
and I feel like that's all been taken
◼
►
away for example in the old days of
◼
►
photos when they didn't have you know
◼
►
digital cameras and we all lined up and
◼
►
had our individual photos taken it was
◼
►
like your one charts that would go bang
◼
►
and then you wouldn't say anything think
◼
►
weeks and six weeks later you'd be given
◼
►
like these envelopes to take home for
◼
►
your parents where they would say do you
◼
►
want to buy some of these I'm the kid
◼
►
and like if your eyes were shut or you'd
◼
►
go to prom or something like you'd blown
◼
►
your chance I had one chance and like
◼
►
you didn't know if you'd done it or not
◼
►
and that teaches you a lot about life
◼
►
like surreptitiously because laughs like
◼
►
that sometimes you know you had your one
◼
►
chance and don't blow it kid
◼
►
that's the lesson you should learn in
◼
►
life it's kind of like but now it's like
◼
►
let's take a thousand until we get it
◼
►
perfect and and it's the same with the
◼
►
class photo you know be having someone
◼
►
who has their eyes share in the photo I
◼
►
mean that doesn't happen now because
◼
►
they do them all separately that's why
◼
►
they're doing this so that no kid is
◼
►
gonna have a stinker because if you put
◼
►
twenty kids in a line you have to take a
◼
►
thousand photos until you get the one
◼
►
you need but here you're taking away
◼
►
that problem by just doing them in pairs
◼
►
making sure everyone's eyes are open and
◼
►
things like that and like so it's just
◼
►
taking away that kind of randomness and
◼
►
it's also taking away like the
◼
►
camaraderie of a class photo it was the
◼
►
one time you're all together and you be
◼
►
all lined up by height and you'd learn
◼
►
how tall you all were in relation to
◼
►
each other and you'd secretly be hoping
◼
►
that you'd end up in the photo somewhere
◼
►
close to like the girl you had a crush
◼
►
on or something and there's so much
◼
►
going on in the class photo and it was
◼
►
just all character building stuff and
◼
►
then you try to get bunny ears on the
◼
►
kid who's in front of you yeah and then
◼
►
you get to take a funny one at the end
◼
►
if you're like in the older kids like
◼
►
it's your final year school you'd say
◼
►
can we do a funny one where you all do a
◼
►
crazy pose and they'll take one of those
◼
►
and also like I don't know if it was
◼
►
just made me or not I've told people
◼
►
about this and they say it is just me
◼
►
but I never knew what day the school
◼
►
photos were gonna be and you just turn
◼
►
up one day and like the photograph
◼
►
company is there having taken over the
◼
►
gymnasium or something and it's like I'm
◼
►
a goodness at school photo day you know
◼
►
what a surprise and it's a big part of
◼
►
most memories of school and these photos
◼
►
become a big part of your life and you
◼
►
know you look back at your old school
◼
►
photos occasionally so I don't know this
◼
►
is a case where I think the digital path
◼
►
is getting rid of some problems but it's
◼
►
also taking away a lot of charm and a
◼
►
lot of character building and a lot of I
◼
►
don't know maybe I'm just overly
◼
►
sentimental I mean look I'm very happy
◼
►
to be the first one in the pylon of
◼
►
Brady is too sentimental I got my front
◼
►
row ticket to that party but like I am
◼
►
totally with you on this school
◼
►
photo thing great auks oh sorry one
◼
►
other point I didn't make it also like
◼
►
is instilling in a really interesting
◼
►
lesson about fakery because this photo
◼
►
is designed to look like they're all
◼
►
together at once these kids know they
◼
►
weren't riously because that incident
◼
►
never happened that's a moment in
◼
►
history that never happened that they've
◼
►
all now got as a keepsake for all time
◼
►
and it's just instilling at an early age
◼
►
that nothing is real yeah I mean maybe
◼
►
to be devil's advocate for a moment
◼
►
that's the most important lesson that
◼
►
you can teach children these days kids
◼
►
you live in a world where you can trust
◼
►
nothing that you see yeah okay they did
◼
►
the reverse is also true
◼
►
it also instills early on that nothing
◼
►
has to be real we'll fix it all in the
◼
►
Edit everything can be fixed in the Edit
◼
►
we'll fix it all in the edit but I don't
◼
►
like it because I said if you were going
◼
►
to take a picture of this with your
◼
►
iPhone you need to take it like a
◼
►
panorama but the thing that's that's
◼
►
weird isn't like in a panorama everybody
◼
►
would be at a different angle all right
◼
►
like you would be rotating the camera
◼
►
and so not all of the kids would be the
◼
►
exact same distance from the camera and
◼
►
in this photo it's like oh right of
◼
►
course all of these kids are looking
◼
►
straight ahead into a camera but there's
◼
►
a line of 20 of them side by side so
◼
►
there is no place you could put the
◼
►
camera to actually get this photo the
◼
►
way it looks with all of them standing
◼
►
in a straight line except a mile away
◼
►
with a telephoto zoom at an infinite
◼
►
distance you could capture this
◼
►
photograph right and since it seems like
◼
►
they're standing in a Euclidean fantasy
◼
►
land right where there's just infinite
◼
►
nothing in all direction maybe that's
◼
►
where this photograph was actually taken
◼
►
but this is a case where psych I'm all
◼
►
fine with digital stuff but if you're
◼
►
doing the digital stuff it has to look
◼
►
right this just looks terrible my big
◼
►
vote for why were school photograph days
◼
►
great is not for lessons learned or any
◼
►
of that sentimentality stuff my
◼
►
perspective on it was just oh thank god
◼
►
it's a day that's different
◼
►
it's a different day at the school we're
◼
►
not going through the same routine you
◼
►
would hope that it would land
◼
►
someday with the extra boring classes
◼
►
that you don't like and I feel like poor
◼
►
kids the school routine it's you know
◼
►
it's the same thing day in day out and
◼
►
any chance you can get to like go
◼
►
outside and sit in the bleachers that's
◼
►
way better whereas I can already see
◼
►
that from a school perspective they sure
◼
►
would love this because it can also be
◼
►
much less disruptive right you can just
◼
►
catch some kids whenever they're
◼
►
available you don't necessarily have to
◼
►
mess up the whole schedule take them out
◼
►
two or three at a time yeah this modern
◼
►
world Brady you know can I tell you one
◼
►
of my journalistic war stories that just
◼
►
came into my head please please do so
◼
►
back in the newspaper days when
◼
►
photoshopping was like a high-tech like
◼
►
normal people couldn't do it this was
◼
►
many many moons ago like analogue
◼
►
photoshopping is that the kind of stuff
◼
►
word document I don't know what we're
◼
►
exactly the technology was at but sort
◼
►
of certainly this story will give you an
◼
►
idea where the technology was at because
◼
►
my beat was covering like the City
◼
►
Council and I'd done it for a while and
◼
►
I had really good context and I was a
◼
►
really good mischief maker my favorite
◼
►
stories weren't like you know the
◼
►
important stuff that was being done in
◼
►
the council it was like making mischief
◼
►
as my specialty mm-hm and I knew the
◼
►
council was having like their official
◼
►
portrait taken this was the 20 members
◼
►
of the City Council whoever they the
◼
►
elected members I can't remember how
◼
►
many there were and they were having
◼
►
their equivalent of a class photo done
◼
►
and they were wearing all the official
◼
►
regalia all the formal robes of the City
◼
►
Council and the traditional stuff and it
◼
►
was being done in the council chamber
◼
►
which is a lovely ornate room where they
◼
►
would have their meetings but the doors
◼
►
were locked and I wasn't allowed in
◼
►
which made me suspicious but anyway I
◼
►
wandered by and I looked through the
◼
►
keyhole at one point and I saw them all
◼
►
in their robes and getting ready and
◼
►
standing in lions to have their photo
◼
►
taken they were doing it the
◼
►
old-fashioned way with you know short
◼
►
people at the front tall people in the
◼
►
second row mm-hm and one of like the
◼
►
council officials like one of like the
◼
►
PR people who was not a councillor he
◼
►
was just like a lackey a staff member
◼
►
was wearing all the regalia and the
◼
►
robes and I was so confused but an
◼
►
unlearning oven and then the next day I
◼
►
was talking to one of the other
◼
►
counselors and I said I was looking
◼
►
through the keyhole and I saw what's his
◼
►
chops wearing the robes what the heck
◼
►
was that all about and she said oh look
◼
►
I'm not supposed to tell you but I will
◼
►
because there were such gossips
◼
►
so and so the counselor couldn't be
◼
►
there because he was sick so they got
◼
►
this person to stand in the photo and
◼
►
then they used modern technology to put
◼
►
that person's head on the photo mm-hmm
◼
►
and I was like no way
◼
►
so like a couple of days later when the
◼
►
official photo got released to the press
◼
►
you know here's the council photo which
◼
►
is something we'd normally would have
◼
►
just ignored cuz who cares
◼
►
mm-hmm either cold the council and ask
◼
►
for an official statement about whether
◼
►
councillor Jones or whatever who's in
◼
►
the photo it was that really him so they
◼
►
had to like fess up that it wasn't and
◼
►
that was such an unusual thing to happen
◼
►
and it was considered like so scandalous
◼
►
that it became it was like page 3 or
◼
►
page 5 or the paper or something one of
◼
►
these counselors is not really there
◼
►
it's a you know it's a pretend photo it
◼
►
wasn't like a scandal like the count you
◼
►
know people should be sacked but it was
◼
►
like funny and embarrassing for them and
◼
►
it was a big thing yeah but now you
◼
►
think nothing of it you know school
◼
►
photos are Photoshop but back then
◼
►
having like someone's head put onto
◼
►
another body for the official portrait
◼
►
you know what I still think that's wrong
◼
►
to this day look at you Brady rustling
◼
►
up trouble where there's no trouble at
◼
►
all trying to kick up a scandal for some
◼
►
poor guy probably staying at home
◼
►
because he's sick no I took this day I
◼
►
think it's wrong when you go through the
◼
►
holes of City Council and you look at
◼
►
all those portraits over the year the
◼
►
photos of all the previous councils
◼
►
knowing that photos not a real photo and
◼
►
they all weren't there in one place it's
◼
►
wrong it's wrong it's not a document of
◼
►
a moment they were all together that's
◼
►
what bothers me photographs are
◼
►
sometimes documents of amazing times in
◼
►
history when you know you look at those
◼
►
photos where like you see all these
◼
►
famous scientists in one photo like
◼
►
Einstein and Niels Bohr and yeah and I
◼
►
know the exactly what you're thinking of
◼
►
yeah it leaps right to my head yeah
◼
►
imagine if you found out actually two of
◼
►
those people weren't there and they just
◼
►
put their heads on later the thing
◼
►
that's special about that photo is they
◼
►
were all in one place at one time yeah
◼
►
and it's the same with a school photo
◼
►
this thing about a school photo is they
◼
►
were all there if you were sick on
◼
►
school photo day back in my day you
◼
►
weren't in the school photo absent you
◼
►
know tuflow jones you've been erased
◼
►
from history and again that's a life
◼
►
lesson if you're not there you're not
◼
►
there but these days there's no lesson
◼
►
like that these days if you're not there
◼
►
we'll just put you there later
◼
►
that's not how life works but maybe it
◼
►
is Brady its how it works now gray it's
◼
►
plane crash corner time it'll be a quick
◼
►
one there's just been so much happening
◼
►
this car is bursting at the seams I feel
◼
►
like you're already contradicting
◼
►
yourself you're pretty you're like oh
◼
►
we're good we're gonna do a quick plane
◼
►
crash corner and then you're coming up
◼
►
to me with all of these model airplanes
◼
►
in your hand I've got so many I want to
◼
►
talk about it's a promise it's gonna be
◼
►
really quick hey you're the one slowing
◼
►
it down you're complaining about how
◼
►
long plane crash corner is just making
◼
►
it longer it's all my fault it's all my
◼
►
fault do you have any superstitions when
◼
►
you get on a plane okay so a while back
◼
►
I found myself unintentionally
◼
►
developing a superstition for getting on
◼
►
the plane yep I don't know how it
◼
►
started I don't know what it was but it
◼
►
was a behavior that I became aware of
◼
►
which is I have this tungsten wedding
◼
►
ring on my hand and yeah when I was a
◼
►
teacher I used to like tap it on things
◼
►
sometimes for like a point of emphasis
◼
►
in a classroom and I tend to just like
◼
►
tap it on stuff because it makes a
◼
►
pleasing sound and at some point I got
◼
►
into the habit of just as you're
◼
►
stepping on the plane as you're leaving
◼
►
the gangway of tapping the ring on the
◼
►
outside of the plane on the physical
◼
►
surface of it yeah and it became a
◼
►
superstition and I was doing it a bunch
◼
►
but not really realizing it and at some
◼
►
point I became aware of this as a
◼
►
conscious behavior and I have since
◼
►
banished this this is what superstitions
◼
►
are right there's some part of your
◼
►
brain that's not really thinking things
◼
►
through I did have a brief period of
◼
►
time where it's like as I'm walking into
◼
►
the plane and like you're not gonna tap
◼
►
you ring on the surface of the plane
◼
►
it's fine nothing's going to happen you
◼
►
know nothing's gonna happen don't let
◼
►
yourself fall into the category of
◼
►
building up this habit over time so I
◼
►
sort of did but I I have since gotten
◼
►
rid of it well grey I have a
◼
►
superstition when I get on planes okay
◼
►
and it's the exact same thing I've never
◼
►
gotten on or off a plane without
◼
►
touching the outside fuselage of the
◼
►
really I do it every time just
◼
►
my hand I just have to touch it I just
◼
►
have to have touched the outside of the
◼
►
plane for the first time ever when I got
◼
►
on a plane about a week ago one of the
◼
►
air stewards noticed that I did it as I
◼
►
was getting on I'd touch the outside of
◼
►
the plane friendly enough she said oh
◼
►
you can touch me instead if you like
◼
►
which now I think about it sounds kind
◼
►
of weird but it wasn't for that's not
◼
►
advertiser friendly at all she didn't
◼
►
mean it like that but when I as I said
◼
►
laughs I realized I sound a weird but
◼
►
she was just being my friendly but if we
◼
►
bleep out what she said it'll sound way
◼
►
better right that is that how that works
◼
►
right we'll take that we'll put a bleep
◼
►
over it then it'll be just fine
◼
►
oh yeah touch beep instead I feel like
◼
►
maybe this is a more common one it's it
◼
►
seems unlikely that you and I have both
◼
►
engaged in the exact same behavior that
◼
►
the fact that that is the thing that we
◼
►
think that going in and out of a plane a
◼
►
lot of people are touching the edge like
◼
►
I particularly don't want to do plane
◼
►
crash corner right now because I'm
◼
►
getting on a plane tomorrow right it's
◼
►
like goddammit but when I am getting on
◼
►
the plane tomorrow I'm gonna be paying
◼
►
attention and see if anyone on the line
◼
►
in front of me touches the plane on the
◼
►
way well I've learned my lesson and I'm
◼
►
not gonna say tweet me if you touch the
◼
►
outside of planes for anyway a lot of
◼
►
cultures have superstitions that involve
◼
►
coins but in particular the Chinese do
◼
►
apparently and there's a story I read a
◼
►
few months ago but the exact same thing
◼
►
happened a few days ago so it's happened
◼
►
twice now where Chinese passengers as
◼
►
they've been walking along the tarmac to
◼
►
get on the planes for luck have thrown
◼
►
coins into the engine of the plane Jesus
◼
►
Christ and then this has been spotted
◼
►
and obviously then they've had to pull
◼
►
the engine apart get the coins out
◼
►
there's a link in the notes video look
◼
►
at I've got it open right in front of me
◼
►
a superstitious passenger delayed a
◼
►
flight from Shanghai for several hours
◼
►
on Tuesday after throwing coins at the
◼
►
plane's engine for good luck they're
◼
►
usually elderly women that do it
◼
►
like imagine if it didn't get spotted
◼
►
there's so many different aspects of
◼
►
this when you say imagine if it didn't
◼
►
I would hope to god that a jet engine
◼
►
could chew up a penny and spit it out
◼
►
but now there's the niggling thought
◼
►
that it couldn't that there is a nonzero
◼
►
possibility that if it hits in just the
◼
►
right way especially as the engine is
◼
►
starting up and not at full chewing
◼
►
through stuff capacity that there's some
◼
►
damage that could be done so great great
◼
►
let me put let me put this to you great
◼
►
if you are getting on a plane and you
◼
►
thought in the corner of your eye but
◼
►
you weren't totally sure you saw an old
◼
►
Chinese lady throwing coins in the
◼
►
direction of the engine you don't know
◼
►
is that what she was doing did she
◼
►
actually get it near the engine what
◼
►
happen I don't know what would you then
◼
►
tell some people as you got on the plane
◼
►
I think maybe that person threw coins at
◼
►
the end really or would you just keep
◼
►
still before you can even get to the end
◼
►
of this question before you can even
◼
►
pose the question I've already added to
◼
►
my mental pre-flight checklist keep an
◼
►
eye on the old Chinese ladies it's
◼
►
already now going to be part of my plane
◼
►
boarding routine to be looking around as
◼
►
terrorists Marist like who knows anyone
◼
►
could be a terrorist you can't pick them
◼
►
out like an old Chinese lady who has
◼
►
something in her hand I can have my eye
◼
►
on you lady right isn't that racial
◼
►
profiling yeah yeah this tough luck
◼
►
right but if if apparently this is like
◼
►
a thing where old Chinese ladies throw
◼
►
coins into engines for luck it's racial
◼
►
profiling and life-saving
◼
►
it does seem to have become a trend so
◼
►
keep your eyes out babe oh man I didn't
◼
►
know you were flying tomorrow great I'm
◼
►
sorry to be throwing a few of these
◼
►
things babies another what I wanted to
◼
►
ask you about if you look on the next
◼
►
link there was a recent case as an Air
◼
►
France plane flying across the Atlantic
◼
►
a380 the big news superjumbo something
◼
►
went wrong with the engine it kind of
◼
►
blew itself apart a bit mid-flight it
◼
►
then landed and everything was okay
◼
►
the thing is they've been a bunch of
◼
►
pictures they're a bunch of pictures on
◼
►
Twitter and in the press that people
◼
►
took out the window of the blown-up
◼
►
engine like you know that badly damaged
◼
►
engine while the plane was still flying
◼
►
my question is if you are on a plane and
◼
►
something happened to the engine but the
◼
►
plane was still flying and the captain
◼
►
just camera said I'll we've lost one of
◼
►
the engines but it's gonna go on land
◼
►
would you take photos of it would you
◼
►
get your phone out and think oh well and
◼
►
take a bunch of photos of the damaged
◼
►
engine on the plane that you're
◼
►
currently flying in okay now this is a
◼
►
very particular situation because I
◼
►
generally don't like window seats I
◼
►
especially don't like window seats where
◼
►
I have a view of anything mechanical out
◼
►
because I will find myself just looking
◼
►
like looking at the wing and looking at
◼
►
those little flaps that come up looking
◼
►
at the mechanical pieces that are
◼
►
underneath and if it's a stormy night
◼
►
you're looking at the gremlin who flies
◼
►
on and off the wing repeatedly as the
◼
►
plane goes on so I specifically try to
◼
►
avoid seats that are the windows or that
◼
►
have a view of the wing I do not like it
◼
►
but if for some reason I was in one of
◼
►
those seats yeah and something happened
◼
►
because I host a podcast with a co-host
◼
►
who is obsessed with plane crash corner
◼
►
I don't see how I could not take a photo
◼
►
I feel like if I was in that situation
◼
►
you would berate me for the rest of the
◼
►
time that we knew each other for not
◼
►
taking a photograph of that engine so so
◼
►
the answer is yes I would feel compelled
◼
►
because of the situation that I am in
◼
►
but if I which is like a regular citizen
◼
►
I'm not sure it would occur to me like
◼
►
looking at the pictures that you're
◼
►
showing you like this is an engine that
◼
►
looked pretty badly damaged it's not
◼
►
like a minor thing I somehow expect that
◼
►
I would in that moment it just would not
◼
►
occur to me to take a photo of the
◼
►
engine that's my guess as I mentioned
◼
►
many times the plane crash corner you
◼
►
know every time I fly now I get to know
◼
►
that if the plane does go down you know
◼
►
I'm gonna be thinking about Brady and
◼
►
plane crash corner in my final moments
◼
►
on this earth so thank you that means I
◼
►
will have some kind of responsibility to
◼
►
document them perhaps tweet them in my
◼
►
final moments on the plane going down so
◼
►
yeah I would be taking pictures would
◼
►
you be taking pictures Brady I probably
◼
►
would take a picture yeah but I can
◼
►
understand someone who wouldn't
◼
►
not because it wouldn't occur to them
◼
►
I'm amazed that it wouldn't occur to you
◼
►
but I can see how someone might feel
◼
►
like it's inappropriate like now is not
◼
►
the time to be taking pictures when like
◼
►
you know lives could be at stake sort of
◼
►
thing only to say that it might not
◼
►
occur to me simply because in in those
◼
►
kind of situations like people can have
◼
►
unexpected behavior that's why it's it's
◼
►
like I think it might not cross my mind
◼
►
but I would fully expect Brady to be
◼
►
taking pictures possibly selfies where
◼
►
you're pointing out the window at the
◼
►
engine that's the kind of picture that I
◼
►
want from you if you ever you're on a
◼
►
plane in the engine gets all busted up
◼
►
interestingly the debris from that
◼
►
engine was found very quickly afterwards
◼
►
in the barren wastelands of Greenland
◼
►
they found it really quickly like some
◼
►
of the parts that fell off the engine
◼
►
mm-hmm and yet they have finally totally
◼
►
yet again abandoned the search for this
◼
►
Malaysian Airlines entire plane that
◼
►
went missing mh370 they went missing
◼
►
around the time hello internet first
◼
►
started that I was sure would be found
◼
►
within two or three episodes that gave
◼
►
birth to plane crash corner I suspect
◼
►
yeah it probably did but I feel like
◼
►
this is the Voyager probe reaches the
◼
►
edge of the solar system story like
◼
►
haven't we given up the search for this
◼
►
flight several times now you're right it
◼
►
has happened several times and just to
◼
►
keep it going and quickly the point I
◼
►
wanted to raise because this is the
◼
►
latest development because since the
◼
►
Australian search party officially
◼
►
abandoned the search which upsets some
◼
►
people in Malaysia because there's so
◼
►
many Malaysian people on the planet
◼
►
right a few other companies have stepped
◼
►
in and offered to do it privately the
◼
►
most interesting being this company
◼
►
called ocean infinity I believe which
◼
►
have offered to search for the debris
◼
►
somewhere in the Indian Ocean far far
◼
►
off the west of Australia for free
◼
►
unless they find it in which case they
◼
►
would get a finder's fee
◼
►
I kind of like a no-win no-fee type blue
◼
►
search for a plane that went missing and
◼
►
I wonder what you thought of that
◼
►
proposal I feel like I need to see the
◼
►
economics of that it's it sounds like an
◼
►
incredibly expensive thing to do hmm I
◼
►
would certainly want to get the money
◼
►
from the Malaysian government in escrow
◼
►
before moving it like you know I'm not
◼
►
exactly sure how would be trusting
◼
►
Malaysia to like a pony
◼
►
up the millions of dollars necessary if
◼
►
this happens there's something kind of
◼
►
macabre about kind of a you know no-win
◼
►
no-fee type situation around like you
◼
►
know a tragedy and a loss of so many
◼
►
lives and this thing that's sort of
◼
►
there's just something that felt a bit
◼
►
when I first heard it that made me think
◼
►
is this right like is this what we've
◼
►
come to do you think they should be
◼
►
searching out of honour or human
◼
►
responsibility or some other junk like
◼
►
that in my opinion that is what they
◼
►
have been doing for the last few years I
◼
►
mean I've been tirelessly searching the
◼
►
ocean floor spending a fortune as it is
◼
►
that has been happening and now that
◼
►
finally they've said look this is
◼
►
getting ridiculous enough Sanath does
◼
►
that mean it's time to bring in like you
◼
►
know the Cowboys I don't know maybe it
◼
►
is and maybe that's how it will get
◼
►
found you know the Titanic was found
◼
►
like that wasn't it admittedly a long
◼
►
time afterwards but by private
◼
►
enterprise but something about it just
◼
►
felt a little bit just a bit uneasy with
◼
►
me but maybe it's just me being queasy I
◼
►
think it's you wanting people to do
◼
►
things just to do them yeah I feel like
◼
►
as soon as the money gets involved
◼
►
you're crossing your arms and go hmm I
◼
►
don't know about this Malaysian airline
◼
►
hunt stroke SpaceX right well maybe
◼
►
that's it though I feel that maybe
◼
►
there's a bit of emotional blackmail
◼
►
here cuz the families of the people who
◼
►
are on that plane are most strongly the
◼
►
people who wanted to be found with very
◼
►
good reason who finally the government's
◼
►
and the officialdom have sort of given
◼
►
up and said look we just can't find it
◼
►
mm-hmm but now these other people have
◼
►
come in seen like an opportunity and
◼
►
they can leverage sort of the emotional
◼
►
pressure of these people who are saying
◼
►
no no we need it found to say to the
◼
►
government hey come and you know it's
◼
►
not going to cost you anything unless we
◼
►
find it you've got all these upset
◼
►
people and all the upset people are
◼
►
saying yes yes get them to do it we want
◼
►
it found I feel that it's a bit it's a
◼
►
little bit blackmailing maybe yeah maybe
◼
►
I feel like I'm okay with it the
◼
►
Malaysian government doesn't have to
◼
►
take them up on it yeah I guess if they
◼
►
get the job done then they've succeeded
◼
►
where others have failed so see what
◼
►
happens I'm sure we'll still be talking
◼
►
this long long into the future which
◼
►
happens first does Malaysian Airlines
◼
►
wreckage get found or does the podcast
◼
►
come to an end or is the discovery of
◼
►
the wreckage like the trigger point for
◼
►
the end of the podcast like maybe that's
◼
►
the ocean infinity other people who will
◼
►
bring us to an end like we no longer
◼
►
have a reason to exist
◼
►
yes because plane crash corner is the
◼
►
beating heart of hello Internet hello
◼
►
Internet its future gray here who took
◼
►
the plane trip and hasn't died well yet
◼
►
anyway but I did take a photograph of
◼
►
the engine while I was in the air that
◼
►
seems like the kind of thing that could
◼
►
become a bit obsessive maybe a bit like
◼
►
a superstition that I'd have to take a
◼
►
photograph of the airplane engine every
◼
►
single time man if I started getting a
◼
►
lot of those I would need some place
◼
►
that I could show them off on the
◼
►
Internet where could I go to make an
◼
►
amazing portfolio website that I could
◼
►
show on the internet I know where I
◼
►
could go I know where you could go its
◼
►
Squarespace Squarespace is the best
◼
►
place to go to make your website if you
◼
►
just have a weird obsession with
◼
►
airplane engines or perhaps plane
◼
►
crashes but have no technical skills
◼
►
don't worry Squarespace is for you if
◼
►
you don't know a thing about making
◼
►
websites it doesn't matter they have
◼
►
beautiful templates created by
◼
►
world-class designers you can just drag
◼
►
and drop your way to perfection
◼
►
everything is customized so you can get
◼
►
it to look just the way you want on
◼
►
mobile and on desktop and if you need
◼
►
they have 24/7 award-winning customer
◼
►
support people who are there to help you
◼
►
any time so if you have a website that
◼
►
you want to make if it's a blog David's
◼
►
aportfolio if it's a resume if you want
◼
►
to sell things online if you have any of
◼
►
those things that you want to make but
◼
►
you haven't known how to do it go to
◼
►
squarespace.com slash hello today that
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►
squarespace.com slash hello to try
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►
just a great idea that doesn't yet have
◼
►
a website until you make it so make it a
◼
►
reality today with Squarespace
◼
►
let's move to lighter subjects because
◼
►
this is on facilities plane-crash
◼
►
corners a bit heavy going let's talk
◼
►
about death yes death the latest of
◼
►
topics so gray your most recent video
◼
►
uploaded is about death I think it's
◼
►
about life Brady about life it's about
◼
►
life and death basically you're saying
◼
►
we should all live forever let's get our
◼
►
act together and do this yeah kind of do
◼
►
you know what can I just say for at
◼
►
least six months now like I've got like
◼
►
a list of questions in my head of things
◼
►
I would ask you if we have a relative
◼
►
things to talk about okay and there's
◼
►
about five or six of them and one of
◼
►
them has been for a long time do you
◼
►
ever worry that the key to eternal life
◼
►
like you know immortality will be
◼
►
discovered just after you die and the
◼
►
reason that questions been in my head
◼
►
for a long time to ask you is cuz I feel
◼
►
there was something about you that has
◼
►
like a interesting preoccupation with
◼
►
death and living forever obviously
◼
►
everyone has feelings about death but
◼
►
like you have in this interesting way
◼
►
that I think has been made more public
◼
►
now by your last video I'm not curious
◼
►
can you do you have any particular
◼
►
reason that you feel that way cuz I go I
◼
►
find that sort of surprising I think
◼
►
it's just kind of something I had taken
◼
►
on by like osmosis just from lots of
◼
►
little things it's not like you talk
◼
►
about it all the time but just the times
◼
►
it's come on I don't know but I'm not
◼
►
making it up it is a question that I've
◼
►
wanted to ask you for a long time
◼
►
because I I've always thought it is
◼
►
something that concerns you I think the
◼
►
thing that you're picking like when you
◼
►
say by osmosis you might be onto
◼
►
something there because I've been very
◼
►
hesitant to do a video like this for a
◼
►
long time like this has been on my topic
◼
►
list for forever but I've always been
◼
►
very hesitant to do it because at least
◼
►
in my personal experience talking with
◼
►
people is a topic that gets a lot of
◼
►
pushback in interesting ways and often
◼
►
quite frankly in ways that I don't
◼
►
really understand so yeah it's been up
◼
►
my list for a while but I think what you
◼
►
might be picking up on osmosis is the
◼
►
thing that I've never really wanted to
◼
►
out loud and that may bleed through in
◼
►
our conversations of death is the
◼
►
reverse of what you're probably thinking
◼
►
it's not that I actually have some kind
◼
►
of focus on death it's that in the back
◼
►
of my mind I feel like I have it like
◼
►
there's a nonzero chance that I might
◼
►
not die in what is a normal human time
◼
►
frame but I kind of never wanted to say
◼
►
or talk about it on the podcast or do a
◼
►
video about it because it feels like
◼
►
jinxing it it's almost like a
◼
►
superstition it's not touching the
◼
►
outside of the plane yeah exactly that
◼
►
is 100% what it's like and so I think
◼
►
maybe that's what comes across on the
◼
►
podcast sometimes when we talk about
◼
►
death is I have this little spark in the
◼
►
back of my mind which is actually the
◼
►
exact reverse it's not that I have a
◼
►
worry or a preoccupation with my own
◼
►
death I'm actually very indifferent to
◼
►
my own death because my feeling is just
◼
►
like well when you're dead you know you
◼
►
don't care it doesn't matter it's not a
◼
►
big deal but I do have a feeling that
◼
►
there may be a nonzero chance that I may
◼
►
have a longer than normal human life
◼
►
span as in oh people of your generation
◼
►
not just like I think I might be part
◼
►
Elvis no that's not what it is let me
◼
►
back up for a second here and say that I
◼
►
do think that radical life extension
◼
►
technology is a thing that can exist in
◼
►
our universe I don't think there is any
◼
►
technical reason that this is not
◼
►
possible to build as opposed to
◼
►
something like sort of like the Star
◼
►
Trek transporter which is like
◼
►
essentially a magic piece of technology
◼
►
that you know we may live in a universe
◼
►
where nothing like a transporter is ever
◼
►
built and it's not really feasible to
◼
►
build something like a transporter but I
◼
►
don't feel that way about life extension
◼
►
because my my view of it is that this is
◼
►
a biological and a physical process and
◼
►
it is a biological and physical process
◼
►
that I think that we will be able to
◼
►
intervene in in some way at some point
◼
►
in the future and then yes I think that
◼
►
that then raises a very interesting idea
◼
►
that there does come a moment where
◼
►
there may end up being a divide where
◼
►
there's like the last generation to die
◼
►
and the first generation that lives
◼
►
unusually long lives I mean in your
◼
►
video great you you sort of showed it
◼
►
graphically quite nicely you sort of
◼
►
drew that divide and showed like a whole
◼
►
bunch of people falling off one side of
◼
►
the ravine and the other people the
◼
►
other side that was almost you making
◼
►
manifest what I thought maybe was
◼
►
something that's set in your head that
◼
►
fear of being the last little stick man
◼
►
who's the wrong side of that divide yeah
◼
►
because as soon as you put that idea out
◼
►
there that does create that fear there
◼
►
is gonna be one man or woman who's the
◼
►
last person to die before you know
◼
►
obviously there'll be some blurring but
◼
►
you know what yeah yeah there is gonna
◼
►
be this like this unlucky generation and
◼
►
gosh who wants to be in that unlucky
◼
►
generator okay so this is interesting
◼
►
let me just let me just clarify
◼
►
something here because do you agree like
◼
►
with this proposition at all like do you
◼
►
think this is a thing that is
◼
►
technically possible to do you know me
◼
►
like I'm a devil's advocate and I'll
◼
►
argue against anything but I find that
◼
►
one hard to argue against okay black hmm
◼
►
if we can like make atom bombs we can
◼
►
just one-by-one check off the list of
◼
►
all the things that are causing us to
◼
►
age and die I can't see like an
◼
►
imperative in the universe that makes us
◼
►
die like I don't think we could you know
◼
►
there are some things in the universe I
◼
►
think maybe we can't stop like you know
◼
►
we probably can't speed up light right
◼
►
or change like the fundamental constants
◼
►
we can't change Pi or the gravitational
◼
►
constant yeah but I do feel that we can
◼
►
tinker with our own machinery and if we
◼
►
can tinker with our own machinery then
◼
►
yeah we probably can dramatically change
◼
►
it that's really interesting for me to
◼
►
hear I was really unsure about where
◼
►
where you would fall on this and again
◼
►
it is partly because I'm very surprised
◼
►
in personal conversations that it's like
◼
►
even talking about this subject with
◼
►
almost everybody puts me quickly into
◼
►
kooky category which is also why I was
◼
►
like a little bit hesitant to do a video
◼
►
on this topic for a while is it's like
◼
►
there's something about this that feels
◼
►
very different than the topic of like
◼
►
free will where people can simply
◼
►
disagree that you're crazy comes out way
◼
►
faster on this topic then on other
◼
►
topics of crazies the word I would use
◼
►
but there is a certain stigma attached
◼
►
to people who want to live forever or
◼
►
live for a long time yeah
◼
►
that it's not always craziness it's like
◼
►
a certain kind of like a bit of a knob
◼
►
yeah another word that comes up very
◼
►
quickly is like arrogance yeah so when I
◼
►
watched your video I actually made a
◼
►
little tweet and I was I guess I was
◼
►
being a bit uncharitable to you and like
◼
►
taking the Mickey oven but I just
◼
►
tweeted it cuz it reminded me there's a
◼
►
scene in the UK office where the the
◼
►
boss of the office this guy called David
◼
►
Brin is talking about like his attitude
◼
►
to life and philosophies to life and
◼
►
then one of the things he says you know
◼
►
he says there's an old saying live hard
◼
►
and die young and then he just suddenly
◼
►
turned serious and goes I don't want to
◼
►
die young I want to die old I want to be
◼
►
really old and one of David Brent's like
◼
►
characteristics is that he wants to live
◼
►
for a really really long time I don't
◼
►
remember that in his personality in the
◼
►
show huh and I think one of the reasons
◼
►
they gave him that characteristic is
◼
►
because it's a bit of an arrogant Nobby
◼
►
characteristic okay yeah I can see also
◼
►
I think also maybe it's a bit like it
◼
►
could be considered quite a selfish
◼
►
attitude mmm-hmm because that people who
◼
►
say that rarely talked about wanting
◼
►
everyone to live a long time they
◼
►
usually just talk about how they live a
◼
►
long time you know what if all the
◼
►
people around you died what would you do
◼
►
he'd be like no I'd still want to live a
◼
►
long time so there is a certain stigma
◼
►
attached to people who wade into this
◼
►
territory and maybe that's also way like
◼
►
some of your reluctance was coming from
◼
►
there could be it don't get me wrong if
◼
►
for some reason I could only accept
◼
►
personal immortality I would accept that
◼
►
if I keep my eye out for any passing
◼
►
vampires it's like it's not a likable
◼
►
quality to want to be immortal is one of
◼
►
these funny things where I've been well
◼
►
I've been working on this this is like
◼
►
an incredible rush job scripts for
◼
►
various reasons that are not interesting
◼
►
for the podcast but while I've been
◼
►
working on this it's like every movie I
◼
►
the villain is obsessed with the idea
◼
►
about living forever yes seeing this
◼
►
everywhere and it's like all of the
◼
►
villains like this is this is a primary
◼
►
characteristic and all of the heroes are
◼
►
arguing for humanity Indiana Jones and
◼
►
the Last Crusade yeah it's all about
◼
►
like people being brought unstitched by
◼
►
their greed for eternal life exactly and
◼
►
I think that there's also something
◼
►
about the idea of feeling like it's
◼
►
generous to pass on the world to the
◼
►
next generation and said like suddenly
◼
►
you're arguing against sharing I think
◼
►
in a way when you start talking about
◼
►
this kind of stuff so it's just an
◼
►
interesting topic and like I said it's a
◼
►
thing I've been hesitant about and it's
◼
►
it's also a thing like I can see in the
◼
►
in the numbers like on all the
◼
►
spreadsheets of the videos that I record
◼
►
that it's like this is a video that has
◼
►
the most push back since interestingly
◼
►
the reddit video which still holds the
◼
►
record for like most pushback of any
◼
►
video I stopped well though it's done
◼
►
good viewing figures hasn't yeah though
◼
►
the viewing figures are good but if you
◼
►
like looking at the like dislike ratio
◼
►
it's the second worst compared to the
◼
►
reddit video which is the worst do you
◼
►
think maybe also it's because a
◼
►
different kind of video you made I feel
◼
►
like your videos have been changing in
◼
►
tone a little bit lately anyway he like
◼
►
taken on the average it felt like the
◼
►
video was it was more of like an opinion
◼
►
pace there is a thing here that's like
◼
►
an opinion that I want to change in
◼
►
people's minds and I'll be very upfront
◼
►
about it I don't think I was successful
◼
►
in it in the video I think people should
◼
►
look at death in the same way that we
◼
►
look at other diseases I think people
◼
►
should look at aging in the same way
◼
►
that we look at other disease that you
◼
►
didn't couch it that way did you like I
◼
►
think if you'd Center it on Aging rather
◼
►
than death it wouldn't have been as like
◼
►
clickable and as like exciting to have
◼
►
seen that title in my sub box but I
◼
►
would have understood the point you are
◼
►
making better that aging is a disease
◼
►
because death isn't a disease death is
◼
►
like a consequence of numerous things
◼
►
one of which is diseases another one is
◼
►
jumping in front of a bus another one is
◼
►
having Wars like death is a consequence
◼
►
and so framing it around death made it
◼
►
like a more enticing Pig but I think
◼
►
maybe that detracted from your argument
◼
►
of it yeah well it's an interesting
◼
►
thing like I can see it in the
◼
►
in the comments we're like these these
◼
►
arguments are people talk about like
◼
►
well the universe is going to come to an
◼
►
end eventually so we're all going to die
◼
►
so you can never defeat death it's like
◼
►
well take that like oh yeah that's true
◼
►
but if I live a billion years like I'm
◼
►
still gonna consider it a win like you
◼
►
get hit by a bus like you're still like
◼
►
it's you know there's going to be
◼
►
accidents and things I'm imagining six
◼
►
billion years old CGP grey making video
◼
►
saying we've got to stop this universe
◼
►
ending thing now yeah well I mean you
◼
►
know there's the multiverse people maybe
◼
►
we can punch through but you know that's
◼
►
a problem for Way future grey so I don't
◼
►
know how much people care that much but
◼
►
like the details behind the scenes are
◼
►
just that's like kurz cos that convinced
◼
►
me at the real eleventh hour to do a
◼
►
video on this topic because he was doing
◼
►
a video on death and aging as well and
◼
►
there's a follow-up that's that's coming
◼
►
out where he's talking about some of the
◼
►
technology of this stuff which may or
◼
►
may not be out by the time the podcast
◼
►
is out and it was really a case that
◼
►
like when we get together this is a
◼
►
topic that we we talk about a bunch and
◼
►
he wanted us to do it as a like we're
◼
►
both planting a flag here on this topic
◼
►
and in a way going to come out on a
◼
►
topic that I know people will regard as
◼
►
kooky like on a topic that I know will
◼
►
get a bunch of pushback and I totally
◼
►
wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for
◼
►
him but it also added in some
◼
►
constraints just that it was produced
◼
►
under a shorter period of time and I
◼
►
also didn't really want to talk about
◼
►
the stuff that he was talking about in
◼
►
his video yeah so he talks about aging
◼
►
very directly so I was trying not to
◼
►
talk about heejung so directly but for
◼
►
people who care about the details those
◼
►
are some of the details but I could see
◼
►
like I think I'm missing the mark with
◼
►
this in the thing that I want to change
◼
►
in people's minds if you feel like you
◼
►
missed the mark with her like you know
◼
►
slightly why you still happy with it
◼
►
like what's the thing you looked at and
◼
►
thought yeah it's alright I'm least I'm
◼
►
glad to say out there so I'm glad it's
◼
►
out there because I have gotten messages
◼
►
and I've seen comments from people who
◼
►
have changed their mind on the topic
◼
►
right what I would really want is
◼
►
something like I think some of the
◼
►
videos on voting that I've done which I
◼
►
feel like are real like lock slam Bach
◼
►
cases against this right that but this
◼
►
topic isn't like that because there's no
◼
►
ability theorem about death where you
◼
►
can just talk through the mathematics of
◼
►
a thing and it's sort of indisputable
◼
►
that's why like this is kind of an
◼
►
opinion piece because there are cultural
◼
►
arguments around the end of life that
◼
►
are not resolvable through facts such as
◼
►
what's just an example I think the
◼
►
question of like passing on the world to
◼
►
a next generation you can't get a
◼
►
correct answer on that in terms of math
◼
►
there's no way to show definitively that
◼
►
it is better to or better not to do this
◼
►
so like I have the feeling that I think
◼
►
we should push for technology to extend
◼
►
human life and I think we should push
◼
►
very hard because my opinion is that
◼
►
death is a kind of horrific degenerative
◼
►
disease and this is tremendous amount of
◼
►
suffering that we can avoid right and
◼
►
and like continued generations of this
◼
►
suffering I think is is really bad and I
◼
►
think there's a kind of cultural
◼
►
blindness to the suffering of senescence
◼
►
over time part of the reason why I
◼
►
really wish that it was like a perfect
◼
►
slam-dunk case because I want to change
◼
►
more people's minds on this because
◼
►
really it's not just about changing
◼
►
people's minds it's about changing their
◼
►
right minds hmm I really want anybody
◼
►
who is in medical school and thinking of
◼
►
going into medical research I want those
◼
►
people to be aware if they're thinking
◼
►
of suffering in the world that aging is
◼
►
on the board like it's a thing to
◼
►
consider about what is the suffering
◼
►
that's in the world right or if
◼
►
someone's like a very wealthy person
◼
►
who's looking to fund new projects like
◼
►
this is a project that has the potential
◼
►
to reduce a tremendous amount of
◼
►
suffering so it's partly how I was
◼
►
convinced to do the video at the last
◼
►
minute under constraints that I might
◼
►
normally not do it because it was
◼
►
presented to me and in terms of like
◼
►
opportunity costs way like what if the
◼
►
very person who could come up with this
◼
►
technology would have been convinced by
◼
►
your video at the right
◼
►
and you didn't make it and then you
◼
►
found yourself on the wrong side of this
◼
►
cliff like okay well you know what
◼
►
now you presented me with this Pascal's
◼
►
wager that I can't get out of my head
◼
►
I'm going to make this thing and I'm
◼
►
going to upload it and it's going to
◼
►
happen so rather than feeding lots and
◼
►
lots and lots of viewers some fish you
◼
►
just want to teach the right person to
◼
►
be a fisherman yes if three of the right
◼
►
minds are turned even slightly on this
◼
►
topic I will consider that an incredible
◼
►
success especially if it affects me
◼
►
directly yes if you get to live forever
◼
►
because of that video I think we'll all
◼
►
thank you gray I won't even take any of
◼
►
the credit for no good because we'd be
◼
►
hearing better for a long time if you
◼
►
did you would be doing about it for a
◼
►
long time but like I think going back to
◼
►
your very opening discussion about this
◼
►
is I feel like I was born at a really
◼
►
fortunate time maybe everybody feels
◼
►
this way I don't know but I feel like
◼
►
I'm I've always been really glad to be
◼
►
born when I was like I was just old
◼
►
enough to know a world that didn't
◼
►
really have computers and technology in
◼
►
the way that it exists now and I got to
◼
►
see all of that come online and I feel
◼
►
like I have a better understanding of
◼
►
this stuff because of that in a way that
◼
►
I was always shocked that like my
◼
►
students who grew up with technology
◼
►
seem to just know nothing or have no
◼
►
appreciation for it I always found that
◼
►
really interesting and counter to the
◼
►
predictions that the younger generation
◼
►
would be amazing with technology because
◼
►
they had grown up with it's like that
◼
►
turned out to totally not be the case
◼
►
they're amazing at Facebook but that's a
◼
►
very different sort of thing
◼
►
there's a few things that are like that
◼
►
I feel like I was born it like just
◼
►
there like I graduated from college at
◼
►
just the right time like I sort of
◼
►
missed economic down swings and then I
◼
►
got into the workforce and I was
◼
►
fortunate to be just at the right age
◼
►
and at the right time when YouTube came
◼
►
around and be able to make a transition
◼
►
you know it's like three years too early
◼
►
or too late and you know maybe my life
◼
►
is very different in these different
◼
►
ways yeah you've avoided some bad walls
◼
►
so far yeah exactly it's it's so I feel
◼
►
very appreciative of this like you're
◼
►
just in a general way and there is one
◼
►
final thing that I'm aware of that there
◼
►
is is this idea about following a bunch
◼
►
of Technology developments that are
◼
►
around life extension
◼
►
just wondering like I have been thinking
◼
►
about this ever since the human genome
◼
►
project I think it concluded in 2003 I
◼
►
think and like the human genome project
◼
►
the first time the human genome was ever
◼
►
sequenced like all the letters of
◼
►
someone's genome were read it took
◼
►
something like 10 years and a billion
◼
►
dollars to do and people who know me in
◼
►
real life over decades know that this is
◼
►
a thing I have always talked about that
◼
►
it's fascinating to watch that price and
◼
►
time go down until now we're at the
◼
►
point where it's like a couple hundred
◼
►
bucks and a couple of weeks 20 years
◼
►
later to get your genome sequenced it's
◼
►
a thing you can just do in the mail and
◼
►
I look at that kind of curve and I feel
◼
►
like it's similar to the computer curves
◼
►
and I think well genome technology is
◼
►
one of these things that you need to
◼
►
have on board in order to do life
◼
►
extension and just recently there's been
◼
►
developments in gene editing like things
◼
►
like CRISPR coming online so now being
◼
►
able to change genetic material on the
◼
►
fly is becoming a much cheaper much more
◼
►
possible thing for a while been really
◼
►
interested in like when the first gene
◼
►
therapies became commercially viable
◼
►
like that stuff is amazing you're like
◼
►
you're injecting and changing DNA and
◼
►
living people it's crazy that it's even
◼
►
possible and so I just I feel like over
◼
►
the course of my life there have been
◼
►
roads that are slowly converging towards
◼
►
this direction but it does have that
◼
►
question of how fast did they converge
◼
►
do they converge fast enough or not gray
◼
►
you were talking before almost like sort
◼
►
of the people you were hoping would hear
◼
►
you would be like future medical
◼
►
researchers who would dedicate
◼
►
themselves to combating aging rather
◼
►
than using their intellect and resources
◼
►
to tackle other things that may be a
◼
►
more fashionable and things like that
◼
►
but do you think technology and medical
◼
►
research is the problem here or are the
◼
►
hearts and minds that you think are
◼
►
going to have to be won over politicians
◼
►
and religious leaders and other cultural
◼
►
things because it feels like those are
◼
►
going to be the stumbling blocks I mean
◼
►
things like CRISPR and all these other
◼
►
technologies and stem cells and that
◼
►
the thing that seems to be slowing them
◼
►
down as much as anything are laws and
◼
►
regulations and politicians and things
◼
►
like that when I think about change in
◼
►
I feel like technology is what you bet
◼
►
on technology is a kind of unstoppable
◼
►
force once you get it going and maybe
◼
►
you can accelerate that through
◼
►
political means or maybe not but like
◼
►
the technology root is the 100% sure
◼
►
root but without a doubt I would love
◼
►
essentially a NASA Kennedy style we're
◼
►
going to approach this as a real topic
◼
►
from the government project like against
◼
►
senescence like obviously that is a
◼
►
thing that I would absolutely love is
◼
►
for a president to get up and say like
◼
►
oh just like Nixon had in the 70s you
◼
►
have a war on cancer it's like say we're
◼
►
gonna have a war on senescence with this
◼
►
like this is a well understood topic and
◼
►
we're going to make some hard decisions
◼
►
about where we're diverting medical
◼
►
research and we're going to play the
◼
►
long game here I would absolutely love
◼
►
I just think from my interactions with
◼
►
people that is almost a total
◼
►
impossibility in any practical way
◼
►
I think people push back so hard on this
◼
►
topic you could never get that to happen
◼
►
right without some kind of incredible
◼
►
external force so I don't see the
◼
►
political path as a fruitful path which
◼
►
is why I feel like that the
◼
►
technological path or like the venture
◼
►
capital path like that's that is the way
◼
►
to go that's really the only practical
◼
►
path forward is it just has to be a
◼
►
thing that becomes technologically
◼
►
feasible and then society as always will
◼
►
catch up that's not really what I meant
◼
►
by the question though it wasn't as much
◼
►
the government enabling it as stopping
◼
►
political leaders from blocking it
◼
►
I feel like technology is like bursting
◼
►
to get out of the gate with some of this
◼
►
but they keep getting knocked down by
◼
►
people saying no no no that's banned no
◼
►
no that's like you know this is
◼
►
Frankenstein science and things like
◼
►
that I don't think you even need the
◼
►
government to like do a Manhattan
◼
►
Project of death hmm you just need
◼
►
governments to say all right we're open
◼
►
you go this is one case where I am
◼
►
definitely glad that let's just say not
◼
►
all the countries in the world are on
◼
►
when it comes to this kind of stuff and
◼
►
some of the most interesting most
◼
►
cutting-edge biological science is
◼
►
coming out of China and it seems like
◼
►
like China is going all in on a bunch of
◼
►
this genetic technology related to
◼
►
humans and I really think that if they
◼
►
get anything that's remotely viable
◼
►
other countries just immediately have to
◼
►
fold on it it's actually it's a bit like
◼
►
a lot of the like self-driving or
◼
►
automation technology that like
◼
►
automation is so incredibly economically
◼
►
valuable that any country that does a
◼
►
good job of automating anything has a
◼
►
tremendous advantage over all others and
◼
►
so the automation just spreads very
◼
►
quickly like if Canada for some reason
◼
►
said self-driving cars are 100% legal
◼
►
across all of Canada and the United
◼
►
States said no we're not going to allow
◼
►
it well all of transportation would
◼
►
divert right it's like the northern half
◼
►
of the transportation economy would
◼
►
divert through Canada as much as
◼
►
possible right like it they'd have such
◼
►
a tremendous advantage in terms of price
◼
►
and manufacturing that the United States
◼
►
couldn't possibly hold out very long and
◼
►
I suspect that any significant medical
◼
►
developments along these lines are going
◼
►
to be the same thing that's like okay
◼
►
well as long as there's someplace that
◼
►
this research can occur it's going to
◼
►
spread outward from that point so I'm
◼
►
glad that not everybody is as
◼
►
restrictive as the United States is when
◼
►
it comes to some of this technology well
◼
►
if I can put my two cents worth in on
◼
►
tearing as always to do with naming yeah
◼
►
senescence is not a word that many
◼
►
yeah no senescence is a terrible and
◼
►
secondly if you're going to use the sort
◼
►
of the brand or the name of life
◼
►
extension that might work but for people
◼
►
of my generation all they can think of
◼
►
is Vanilla Sky and the fact that the
◼
►
creepy company that tries to make people
◼
►
live longer in that's called life
◼
►
extension and they're like the villains
◼
►
at night of the film so life extension
◼
►
is a bit of a tainted term at least for
◼
►
maybe which I like very much this really
◼
►
does come back to you a lot of the
◼
►
stuff like senescence is a totally
◼
►
unknown word but it's also not a great
◼
►
word there's no freebooting right people
◼
►
just love it and they're going to spread
◼
►
it immediately like it's just not good
◼
►
and yeah like life extension there's
◼
►
something about this which is just like
◼
►
polluted in the popular culture which
◼
►
again is kind of why my feeling about
◼
►
this video is like do my best job to try
◼
►
to convince everybody but I feel like
◼
►
what I'm really trying to do is convince
◼
►
a few people who might be on the edge or
◼
►
like you know what that is a thing that
◼
►
maybe I should think about instead of
◼
►
other options your point from being
◼
►
earlier is totally true that there's
◼
►
some interesting cultural push backs on
◼
►
this I presume though that if it is
◼
►
going to be available in your lifetime
◼
►
Brady that you will be signing up for
◼
►
the treatment whatever it may be to
◼
►
extend your life I will consider signing
◼
►
up if you answer me one more question or
◼
►
deal with one more issue in my head and
◼
►
talk it through for me and then I'll be
◼
►
happy well who you make a convincing
◼
►
case for you know being anti-death and
◼
►
it shouldn't be the hardest case to make
◼
►
sure though because I don't think anyone
◼
►
really wants to die but can you see any
◼
►
merit to the opposite case do you see
◼
►
any usefulness and utility in death
◼
►
whether its population control I don't
◼
►
know what the pro-death arguments are
◼
►
but can you talk me through some of the
◼
►
pro-death arguments and tell me why
◼
►
they're flawed I want to be upfront here
◼
►
that this is the case where very often I
◼
►
feel like the arguments on the other
◼
►
side are a bit baffling a lot of them
◼
►
fall into a thing which i think is a
◼
►
little bit like when people get into
◼
►
arguments about the education system
◼
►
which is the thing that we have done on
◼
►
this podcast where they're backwards
◼
►
justifications for the way a thing is I
◼
►
have found at least personally that it's
◼
►
it's most useful when talking to people
◼
►
to frame it in a way where it's like if
◼
►
this didn't exist would you make it this
◼
►
way all right we'd like would you bring
◼
►
it back into existence the way it is
◼
►
right now it's like that's the way you
◼
►
should frame it in your mind like I just
◼
►
think a lot of the deaf stuff is like a
◼
►
rationalization for the way things are
◼
►
but gray lots of things we
◼
►
and do we do get rid of you know we put
◼
►
up buildings but then we knock them down
◼
►
for new buildings rather than just
◼
►
constantly patching them up and we do
◼
►
build a lot of obsolescence into things
◼
►
we do and not just to make money by
◼
►
selling another iPhone in a couple of
◼
►
years like there is a naturalness to the
◼
►
way we design and do things for it not
◼
►
necessarily last forever one of the
◼
►
arguments that comes up a bunch which I
◼
►
can I can see where people are coming
◼
►
from is the idea that if you have people
◼
►
living a really long time Society will
◼
►
and this to me is built on an assumption
◼
►
that I can see why people think it but I
◼
►
I just don't agree with it this idea
◼
►
that society changes because people with
◼
►
old ideas die and younger people with
◼
►
new ideas replace them right now if that
◼
►
was 100% true then yes like maybe this
◼
►
is a concern like society never changes
◼
►
or adapts to different situations beat
◼
►
yeah it's like it stagnates and you end
◼
►
up with some kind of like some kind of
◼
►
civilization that you'd visit on Star
◼
►
Trek right words like oh nothing nothing
◼
►
has changed for 20 thousand years on
◼
►
this planet right and we're just doing
◼
►
the same stuff all the time
◼
►
yeah but I just agree like I just think
◼
►
that that is a false assumption and I
◼
►
also think it's an assumption that it's
◼
►
just not borne out by the data like if
◼
►
you look at people's voting patterns
◼
►
people's geography is correlated way
◼
►
better with how they vote for example
◼
►
then their age is correlated with how
◼
►
they vote and I think we have seen
◼
►
enough things in society where people do
◼
►
change their minds because things are
◼
►
better ideas like the most recent
◼
►
example that's it's always used as the
◼
►
standard go to cases is simply gay
◼
►
marriage rights in the United States on
◼
►
the scale of societal change that
◼
►
happened relatively quickly and it seems
◼
►
to happen because people change their
◼
►
mind on this topic through exposure it
◼
►
didn't happen because there was a
◼
►
massive die-off of old people between
◼
►
the 90s and the 2000s that's not the
◼
►
changed it changed because people change
◼
►
their minds so I think people are able
◼
►
to change their minds at any age and it
◼
►
also ignores that implicit in this idea
◼
►
of radical life extension is the idea
◼
►
that the whole thing that we're trying
◼
►
to achieve here is maintaining your
◼
►
health at an older age so it's not like
◼
►
the old people are still going to be the
◼
►
chief executive of SpaceX but have no
◼
►
new ideas they're gonna have a young
◼
►
dynamic brain that's still gonna be
◼
►
having new ideas all the time and like
◼
►
in a perfect world you're sort of at the
◼
►
level you are in your 20s or 30s or
◼
►
whatever so that's not like there's a
◼
►
whole generation of oldies that are just
◼
►
getting older and older and older but
◼
►
just not dying the argument seems to be
◼
►
that where we're aiming for the genies
◼
►
curse where we just get older and older
◼
►
and older forever and like who wants
◼
►
that nobody wants that yeah this is why
◼
►
I get a little bit like excised on this
◼
►
topic is that is I think that through
◼
►
might be a bit harsh but through a kind
◼
►
of carelessness of intent we actually
◼
►
accidentally create that world because
◼
►
if we're constantly spending our efforts
◼
►
on solving medical problems that are
◼
►
further towards end-of-life like what we
◼
►
end up doing is what has happened that
◼
►
we do extend life but we extend old-age
◼
►
and so like we're pushing up life
◼
►
expansion but where we're not increasing
◼
►
what is sometimes called the the health
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►
span of life very dramatically like
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►
you're increasing the total amount of
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►
time that you're alive but that is
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►
increasing faster than the healthy
◼
►
portion of your life he's increasing
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►
sometimes you know when we joke about
◼
►
like Oh CGP grey is dictator and I'm
◼
►
like you don't want me as dictator
◼
►
because I would do things that would be
◼
►
deeply unpopular and this is one of
◼
►
those cases where I feel like I would
◼
►
pull research money and effort off of
◼
►
diseases that kill people in their old
◼
►
age and put it towards senescence
◼
►
research and like that would be a deeply
◼
►
unpopular decision but I do think that's
◼
►
overall that's a better decision to make
◼
►
so for people who don't know that's
◼
►
research to stop aging yeah sorry
◼
►
research to stop aging so yeah I just
◼
►
think that there is there is
◼
►
way that we unintentionally create the
◼
►
the thing that is the argument that
◼
►
people are having they'd like oh you end
◼
►
up with the society that's just full of
◼
►
oldsters and hardly has any young people
◼
►
and becomes really stagnant and it's
◼
►
like well we can do that by accident
◼
►
yeah you can do that if you were Japan
◼
►
point is with it like that's not what
◼
►
we're trying to do all right then well
◼
►
at this stage I think we're getting well
◼
►
into old age so we are getting well into
◼
►
old age we can follow this up at some
◼
►
point but the podcast has been going on
◼
►
for quite a while yes it is late in the
◼
►
evening here I have to go on a plane
◼
►
relatively shortly I know I feel a bit
◼
►
bad about that I'm sorry but I hope your
◼
►
flight goes well I have no idea where
◼
►
you're going or what you're doing but
◼
►
I'm sure I'll find out in due course I'm
◼
►
an international man of mystery Brady
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►
yeah that's what I am