The Accidental Tech Podcast

245: Senior-Citizen Advantage


  I am NOT looking forward to Friday not [TS]

  at all [TS]

  listen you want do some follow-up yeah I [TS]

  don't think we only have one item here [TS]

  and it's a tiny little throwaway thing I [TS]

  don't know here we go [TS]

  how many times have we said this and [TS]

  then it's like 40 minutes last time we [TS]

  talked all about like Mac Pro's and [TS]

  stuff maybe people were like okay fine [TS]

  no was that actually the Mac Mini thing [TS]

  is in a topic section is a natural [TS]

  follow-on from the last thing not to be [TS]

  confused with follow-up topic yes who [TS]

  admitted follow-on I don't know is it [TS]

  even a thing I think I was just using [TS]

  the actual term the actual phrase as in [TS]

  something that naturally comes after [TS]

  another thing I mean you probably [TS]

  thought the same thing when you were [TS]

  first using follow-up and then it turns [TS]

  out you invented that there was a format [TS]

  associated with that there was a format [TS]

  what's the format for follow-on just [TS]

  when you in the next show you do a topic [TS]

  that is a natural you know it naturally [TS]

  follows the topic on the previous show I [TS]

  don't know I think it's whatever you say [TS]

  it is well we'll say if I do it if I do [TS]

  it for like two years regularly with it [TS]

  with a strict format and every single [TS]

  episode then we'll see what we got so [TS]

  let me just state for the record that we [TS]

  immediately ended up on a tangent so the [TS]

  only item I have is more chair follow-up [TS]

  class last week I think I was sitting on [TS]

  a gesture right I think you had just [TS]

  started on the gesture like that day or [TS]

  something recently yeah yeah so I used [TS]

  it for a few days or whatever but I've [TS]

  swapped it back now for the for the [TS]

  embody and now we're like I took the old [TS]

  chairs out of the room so now we're in [TS]

  the actual trial period where I'm gonna [TS]

  try one chair and my wife will try the [TS]

  other and then we'll switch back and [TS]

  forth and see how we go I kind of know [TS]

  what I think of both of the chairs so [TS]

  far and I wish there was one that was [TS]

  just such a clear winner but the big [TS]

  lumpy thing underneath Ian's body annoys [TS]

  me but I think I like the embody like [TS]

  I think it fits my body you better than [TS]

  the gesture so anyway the only bit of [TS]

  follow-up I have is last week I was [TS]

  sitting on the gesture but I was [TS]

  wondering how I was gonna figure out how [TS]

  to take off the arms and I'm happy to [TS]

  report that I did successfully remove [TS]

  the arms without too much fuss it was [TS]

  just a tiny little bit tricky it's not I [TS]

  wasn't actually tricky like it's it's [TS]

  straightforward unless you are if you [TS]

  don't have a lot of experience [TS]

  disassembling things it's you know and [TS]

  this is how you get experiences [TS]

  sometimes you do it the wrong way when [TS]

  you're a kid a lot maybe adults don't do [TS]

  this but frequently as a child if I [TS]

  wanted to take something apart I took a [TS]

  lot of things apart you would look at it [TS]

  and be like I want that thing to come [TS]

  off and you'd look around for a couple [TS]

  seconds and see there's any obvious [TS]

  screw heads poking out somewhere or [TS]

  something like you know what do I need [TS]

  to unscrew or untwist or whatever to [TS]

  make this come out and if you don't see [TS]

  anything you know then you're like well [TS]

  I've got a lot of tools and I'm pretty [TS]

  clever [TS]

  I have opposable thumb said I'm a clever [TS]

  little tool using monkey I can get that [TS]

  off like it's coming off right you just [TS]

  you you realize that you can do it [TS]

  you're like I have I have leverage and [TS]

  and friction and all sorts of things [TS]

  that will get this thing off but you end [TS]

  up destroying the thing when you're [TS]

  taking it off and so the Steelcase [TS]

  gesture chair is one of those devices [TS]

  where any tool using monkey can look at [TS]

  the thing and say I can get those arms [TS]

  off probably like I kind of have an idea [TS]

  like I see some some squishy plastic [TS]

  bits that seem like they have seams and [TS]

  even though I don't see any screws that [TS]

  I can unscrew to get it undone I see a [TS]

  lot of things that are soft enough that [TS]

  I can pry them off and surely underneath [TS]

  those things if I pry them off will be [TS]

  the screws that I seek and I'll be able [TS]

  to remove these arms but me having some [TS]

  experience disassembling things knows [TS]

  how this goes yeah you probably will [TS]

  eventually do it that way but there's [TS]

  also a very good chance that you will [TS]

  pry off all these soft parts and damage [TS]

  them and underneath them will just be [TS]

  scary unyielding metal that doesn't help [TS]

  you at all so take two seconds to think [TS]

  about it and I did things I can [TS]

  something about it I didn't pry the [TS]

  thing out but didn't destroy because you [TS]

  know it's expensive chair and I want to [TS]

  you know be nice to it anyway like I [TS]

  said this is so it comes with the [TS]

  experience taking things apart so I [TS]

  found yeah you could feel the underside [TS]

  of [TS]

  and very large ruse that were probably [TS]

  holding the arms on but there's no way [TS]

  you could get at the top of them because [TS]

  there was no like there was you couldn't [TS]

  see the top of them and like well this [TS]

  chair went together [TS]

  someone assembled this chair and it's [TS]

  not like so many Apple things one way [TS]

  assembly with like with tabs don't you [TS]

  know untap or like things that I fix it [TS]

  has to remove with heat because they're [TS]

  glued like put this beanbag in the [TS]

  microwave or even just things a lot of [TS]

  things snap together like a plastic snap [TS]

  together model or there's like a slot in [TS]

  the tab and like they really only go in [TS]

  one direction you have no way to push [TS]

  that tab back out like without breaking [TS]

  it but I figured a chair is not like [TS]

  that so the trick of it in case you're [TS]

  wondering is the seat of the Steelcase [TS]

  chair slides forward and back on like a [TS]

  little like it's like rack and pinion [TS]

  steering there's like a little you know [TS]

  rack thing and then a little gear that [TS]

  turns right and I could see that to get [TS]

  the top of the screw heads that I wanted [TS]

  to get at they would probably be [TS]

  underneath the back of the seat so I [TS]

  moved the seat forward but I couldn't [TS]

  remove the sort of plastic shroud it's [TS]

  not like a car plastic shroud that was [TS]

  probably covering what I imagined to be [TS]

  the tops of those screws now my car with [TS]

  a sweet if the seat goes forward [TS]

  underneath the seat there's no screws [TS]

  underneath there but this would one tiny [TS]

  little tab that was like stopping the [TS]

  seat from going completely forward so [TS]

  you can move it forward and back and [TS]

  what prevented it why did it stop going [TS]

  forward this is one tiny little tab it [TS]

  was made of flexible springy metal all [TS]

  right so push that little springy tab [TS]

  down into the slot and all of a sudden [TS]

  the chair you can just keep turning the [TS]

  dial the chair slides right off the [TS]

  front like the seat slides right off the [TS]

  front in one piece perfectly fine and [TS]

  then you have access to the body of the [TS]

  seat and then there's a plastic thing [TS]

  with some little you know you peel off [TS]

  the plastic shroud with some little [TS]

  plastic cookie things in there you will [TS]

  see the apparently expensive chair and [TS]

  receive standard which is a t30 torx [TS]

  screws and they were like six of them [TS]

  and they were really hard to undo and [TS]

  they're humongous at once I had all six [TS]

  of them out the arms came right off no [TS]

  damage done at all reassembled perfectly [TS]

  so happy report that I have two armless [TS]

  chairs and did not damage them and now I [TS]

  of what I imagine is several hundred [TS]

  dollars worth of useless arms up in my [TS]

  attic that's by the way that's a I don't [TS]

  even know if I would sell them because [TS]

  I'm such a hoarder but um it's something [TS]

  I wish I had known earlier is you can [TS]

  buy the embody without arms for like a [TS]

  hundred dollars less if you can find [TS]

  someone who will sell to you you can [TS]

  configure it without arms and you will [TS]

  save like a hundred bucks on it so it's [TS]

  no small on that as far as I could tell [TS]

  there was no place where you could buy [TS]

  the gesture without arms because gesture [TS]

  the arms and the gesture are kind of [TS]

  like half the point of the chair they're [TS]

  very very configurable actually really [TS]

  cool arms I just don't want them on my [TS]

  chair so that's it for my update I'm [TS]

  sitting on the embody there are no arms [TS]

  and we're off to the races [TS]

  life was good wait what what about your [TS]

  wife though what if she wants arms on [TS]

  her chair tough noogies she doesn't she [TS]

  doesn't want them oh that was part of [TS]

  the prenup no no it was not part of the [TS]

  prenup but she told me I don't want arms [TS]

  are they get in the way she's used to [TS]

  having a chair with no arms as well and [TS]

  they just there's get in the way so no [TS]

  arms for anybody I think that's bananas [TS]

  I can't imagine not having arms so much [TS]

  I'm serious do like I explained this [TS]

  like thing because you missed it like I [TS]

  don't know people will deal with arms [TS]

  not sure like if your if your arms are [TS]

  positioned ergonomically on the keyboard [TS]

  like it should be like if you looked if [TS]

  you look at yourself sitting at the seat [TS]

  in profile it should be a 90 degree L [TS]

  from like your shoulder straight down to [TS]

  your elbow and then 90 degrees out to [TS]

  the keyboard right that's where you want [TS]

  to be in that position [TS]

  especially if you have longer arms like [TS]

  mine your elbows are already low enough [TS]

  that they're probably bumping into the [TS]

  armrest like and even if the arm rests [TS]

  are below where your arms are if you [TS]

  relax or move or whatever your arms [TS]

  might bump into the armrest and I just [TS]

  feel like I feel constrained by the [TS]

  armrest that my elbows are constantly [TS]

  bumping them so then I find myself [TS]

  pulling in my elbows to instinctively [TS]

  avoid bumping into the armrest and that [TS]

  is uncomfortable intent so that's the [TS]

  first thing and the second thing is I [TS]

  apparently getting in and out of the [TS]

  chair sideways all the time and when [TS]

  there are arms there you can't do that [TS]

  like you know you have to climb over [TS]

  them you have to rotate there pull out [TS]

  the chair and by the way these chairs [TS]

  are really heavy I wish they were [TS]

  lighter and they don't roll that well on [TS]

  the carpet but but by my as I get into [TS]

  the chairs from the side and once [TS]

  they're arms you can't get in from the [TS]

  side [TS]

  third the arms hit against my keyboard [TS]

  trade because of the height they would [TS]

  have to be like if I put the arms below [TS]

  the level like you were traded be so low [TS]

  that they'd be like hitting my hips and [TS]

  not my elbows but like what the hell is [TS]

  the point thing so they just they just [TS]

  arms just don't fit into my chair life [TS]

  at all and I imagine a lot of people who [TS]

  have arms in their chair who don't mess [TS]

  with them their keyboard is too high [TS]

  like if your keyboard is on your desk [TS]

  chances are good your keyboard is too [TS]

  high like if you sit properly and type [TS]

  and your arms do not make perfect [TS]

  90-degree ELLs or a larger angle so like [TS]

  you know 95 degrees or whatever so that [TS]

  see the angle at your elbows is bigger [TS]

  than 90 then you're probably your [TS]

  keyboard is 200 which may not bother you [TS]

  but it's super bothers me a lot now all [TS]

  I can think of is I'm envisioning you [TS]

  mounting a chair by hopping one leg over [TS]

  it like Jonathan Frakes you know I was [TS]

  gonna pull I was gonna do a reference [TS]

  there like nobody's gonna get that but I [TS]

  guess yeah me me enough the case you got [TS]

  it oh come on I love the next generation [TS]

  well I got to do this to me dad yeah but [TS]

  when you watch next generation did you [TS]

  know about that or did you all course [TS]

  about it after the meme came yeah only [TS]

  after I think I'm more disappointed when [TS]

  I here at John siracusa mmm-hmm then [TS]

  when my own father does the equivalent [TS]

  this is an abusive relationship let's [TS]

  just move on to ask ATP and Jonathan [TS]

  Rogers would like to know how do you all [TS]

  feel about Bitcoin slash crypto [TS]

  currencies do you think that there is a [TS]

  real long-term value in them or they [TS]

  just short-term speculation plays do you [TS]

  buy into the underlying structure for [TS]

  sustaining billions of transactions in [TS]

  the future do you and do you hold any [TS]

  coins of any type I know almost nothing [TS]

  about any of this and have no [TS]

  cryptocurrencies of any sort and I would [TS]

  love to be enlightened and I did here [TS]

  Glenn Fleischmann I think on the talk [TS]

  show try to describe well he did [TS]

  describe Bitcoin and it still flew right [TS]

  over my head and so I just don't get it [TS]

  I treat Bitcoin the same way I treat all [TS]

  other kind of you know high-risk mostly [TS]

  luck based or speculation based [TS]

  investments which is this is a game that [TS]

  other people play that I should not play [TS]

  and so I don't play I I don't even own [TS]

  individual stocks anymore like I used to [TS]

  you know [TS]

  I used to have like some of my savings [TS]

  be a neat trade account that I could buy [TS]

  and sell individual stocks from I did [TS]

  for for a couple of years and I came out [TS]

  a little ahead but I was always worried [TS]

  about it and the ups and downs really [TS]

  annoyed me and and stressed me out and [TS]

  like all the index funds over this over [TS]

  the same time beat my performance it [TS]

  wasn't like I was being particularly [TS]

  special or clever that pretty much any [TS]

  kind of like manually managed individual [TS]

  investments like this are I think not a [TS]

  good use of my time or my money your if [TS]

  you are more if you're a person who's [TS]

  more into doing that and and you and you [TS]

  get a lot of interest and value out of [TS]

  that that can be your game and and more [TS]

  power to you but I decided that the best [TS]

  way for me to make more money was to [TS]

  just do things that made me that made me [TS]

  money like do more of them and and that [TS]

  was like better than trying to extract [TS]

  an extra you know 5 or 10% a year out of [TS]

  some some potentially lucky investments [TS]

  that often times weren't so lucky [TS]

  Bitcoin to me is is no different than [TS]

  playing stocks it really isn't it's it's [TS]

  a volatile foreign currency basically [TS]

  like you know foreign exchange markets [TS]

  commodity market these there are all [TS]

  types of commodity trading Bitcoin is [TS]

  not the first thing to do this like it's [TS]

  a rose for a very long time it is it is [TS]

  very clear what can happen in this world [TS]

  what can go well what can go poorly [TS]

  Bitcoin is in some ways even less secure [TS]

  than let's think because of the way it [TS]

  works but you know as a way to make [TS]

  money I I wouldn't advise people put a [TS]

  lot of faith in systems like this as a [TS]

  fun thing to play around with or if [TS]

  you're doing it for more political [TS]

  reasons like you want to make a [TS]

  statement about not being part of the [TS]

  you know like the the official banking [TS]

  systems and everything that you know you [TS]

  might have other reasons but for making [TS]

  money I don't think I think it's just [TS]

  you know you might as well go to Vegas [TS]

  like it's if you it's just gambling it's [TS]

  just a different form of gambling so I [TS]

  view this kind of in the same category [TS]

  as many other things in my life where I [TS]

  feel like I was well positioned [TS]

  to know about this type of because it's [TS]

  a tech thing well positioned to know [TS]

  about this thing more than regular [TS]

  people to know about it sooner to [TS]

  understand it better to sort of get into [TS]

  the ground floor like another example [TS]

  are a lot of like the internet IPOs and [TS]

  stuff you know back in the days when no [TS]

  one understood the internet but I [TS]

  certainly did because I was on it very [TS]

  early right as a techy person there are [TS]

  some you have some advantages in some [TS]

  realms and Bitcoin falls into that [TS]

  category and like all those other things [TS]

  I kind of think of it as yet another [TS]

  case where I failed to make a lot of [TS]

  money and I could have because like for [TS]

  example you know if we all knew we know [TS]

  now and put us back into 1990 like we [TS]

  would all be billionaires because you [TS]

  just know you would know to like first [TS]

  of all buy all the domain names you can [TS]

  get for like common names because some [TS]

  company will buy them from you later [TS]

  like second of all sync all your money [TS]

  and the stocks that we know are gonna go [TS]

  crazy right like you know it's easy to [TS]

  go back in time and understand but we [TS]

  were there early and it's like I knew do [TS]

  my names would have value but they were [TS]

  like you know 200 bucks to get one with [TS]

  Verisign or whatever and I couldn't [TS]

  afford that because I was a college [TS]

  student you know we're working a [TS]

  part-time job to pay for my books it [TS]

  11-a know crappy dorm like I didn't you [TS]

  know it was it was timing was kind of [TS]

  good but not really same thing with [TS]

  investment I could have invested I could [TS]

  have got a large amount of VA Linux [TS]

  stock because I contributed to Sipan [TS]

  right but I didn't have that kind of [TS]

  money to invest and I could have got [TS]

  like a five hundred percent return on my [TS]

  investment if I had had the money to [TS]

  invest right so Bitcoin similarly when [TS]

  Bitcoin was first going around I was [TS]

  like oh I you know I read up on it I [TS]

  learned about it understood what the [TS]

  deal with it was I got to even got to [TS]

  the point where I downloaded the [TS]

  software and was mining for coins on my [TS]

  incredibly slow computer wherever the [TS]

  hell it was at that time right but I [TS]

  didn't you know didn't take it super [TS]

  seriously and didn't invest a lot of [TS]

  time in it and you know it was kind of [TS]

  boring to mine for coins and I was like [TS]

  yeah like I think I I don't remember [TS]

  what I got out of it some fractional [TS]

  Bitcoin probably exists on some backup [TS]

  of my hard drive somewhere or you know I [TS]

  don't know if I got one Bitcoin you [TS]

  should dig that up it's worth 700 bucks [TS]

  now like I don't even know [TS]

  the hell that crap is there's just [TS]

  another problem with the system that is [TS]

  so based on like you know do you ever [TS]

  lose track your files well how would you [TS]

  feel those files were worth about [TS]

  thousands of dollars so but but unlike [TS]

  the investing gambling things it was the [TS]

  type of situation where there was the [TS]

  possibility because that you are a nerd [TS]

  that you could have with like with no [TS]

  risk and no money upfront it sounds like [TS]

  an ad like you just spend a little time [TS]

  on your computer because you're there [TS]

  early and because it was easier to mine [TS]

  coins in the beginning than it is now [TS]

  right computationally speaking you could [TS]

  have done what many people did is if [TS]

  you're just a little bit more interested [TS]

  in and you had mined coins a little bit [TS]

  more thoroughly for like a month or [TS]

  something that didn't cost you anything [TS]

  it's not like you're putting your life [TS]

  savings into it you spent a little bit [TS]

  of time and you're having some fun and [TS]

  it's hobbing is an interesting thing [TS]

  let's take a look and why you do this [TS]

  because you're a nerd and you know about [TS]

  this stuff and that would be worth a [TS]

  huge amount of money now but I didn't do [TS]

  that so well the way I view Bitcoin is [TS]

  if you were in really early and minded [TS]

  when they were easy and held them [TS]

  instead of buying them to order pizzas [TS]

  like so many people did in the sad [TS]

  stories where they they ordered they [TS]

  sold their bitcoins in order to pizza [TS]

  for 20 bucks and now the the bitcoins [TS]

  that they ordered that pizza with are [TS]

  worth like you know 50 grand and I feel [TS]

  bad about it or I guess I suppose that [TS]

  would be worse but but that time is over [TS]

  like we all missed that and now it is [TS]

  like Marco said it's just like okay well [TS]

  now you look at it and you're like this [TS]

  is just a giant soap bubble floating [TS]

  through the air that's either about to [TS]

  burst or something terrible will happen [TS]

  or like it is it is so incredibly risky [TS]

  and scary and you're you know supposed [TS]

  to buy low and sell high not buy a high [TS]

  and hope it's gonna go way higher and [TS]

  obviously that's terrible advice if ever [TS]

  you if you're thinking of investing in [TS]

  Apple and it's ten years ago but there's [TS]

  risk like and it's it's not you have to [TS]

  put you have to put in money to make [TS]

  money at this point where is in the [TS]

  beginning you put in like nothing to [TS]

  make potentially huge or nothing to make [TS]

  nothing I like penny stocks you know [TS]

  it's like very little investment [TS]

  probably is gonna come to nothing but [TS]

  it's but it's such a small amount and [TS]

  it's a fun thing to do if you're into [TS]

  this nerdy stuff it's kind of fun it's [TS]

  like steady at home but for money so so [TS]

  so I regret obviously not [TS]

  getting more into it earlier but what [TS]

  can you do you can't tell the future and [TS]

  so anyway I have no interested in [TS]

  getting into it now I don't quite [TS]

  understand how they could ever sustain [TS]

  any large transaction volume I see lots [TS]

  of potential pitfalls this but I think [TS]

  it is very technically interesting using [TS]

  math to make a bunch of parties who [TS]

  don't trust each other have a verifiable [TS]

  trust relationship for transactions I [TS]

  think that's an important advancement [TS]

  both the the math behind it which is [TS]

  probably not that new but the [TS]

  implementations of it which it is new [TS]

  idea to say can we actually implement [TS]

  this in a safe way without bugs and [TS]

  problems and without letting more than [TS]

  51% of the swarm get a quorum and and [TS]

  you know tip the whole market or [TS]

  whatever the hell anyway I think it's [TS]

  cool but it's not for me as much as I am [TS]

  staying far away from it I'd always have [TS]

  had no desire to to get into it for [TS]

  financial reasons it is technically [TS]

  beautiful like it is an amazing [TS]

  technical accomplishment and idea and I [TS]

  really respect that but you know despite [TS]

  all of its other problems it is pretty [TS]

  awesome of an idea and a concept and and [TS]

  I could have no interest in gambling [TS]

  with it as a financial instrument well [TS]

  it's not beautiful about it [TS]

  unfortunately is that due to the [TS]

  constraints of the current [TS]

  implementations as in like what is it up [TS]

  parties that don't trust each other can [TS]

  have verifiable relationships at low [TS]

  transaction volumes it has found its [TS]

  ecological the ecological niche which is [TS]

  you know selling drugs and illegal [TS]

  things there's a small number of parties [TS]

  who really really don't trust each other [TS]

  and really don't want to use the banking [TS]

  system and they don't have a large [TS]

  transaction volume right and so that's [TS]

  kind of it's kind of sad right that's [TS]

  but but the transaction volume actually [TS]

  is a problem you can't move the entire [TS]

  banking system to a cryptocurrency until [TS]

  they sort those things out and who knows [TS]

  if they will but I do really like the [TS]

  idea of whatever disintermediation or [TS]

  whatever the phrase was from the 90s [TS]

  which i think is still an important [TS]

  thing because nobody likes middlemen [TS]

  when the middleman is math well the [TS]

  other problem that is like the [TS]

  environmental cost of Bitcoin is really [TS]

  non-trivial like the amount of energy [TS]

  being wasted because all of a sudden [TS]

  wasting massive amounts of energy now [TS]

  has a financial upside for the people [TS]

  who are doing it much more so than I [TS]

  think it ever has before for doing [TS]

  apparently no other work that that is [TS]

  not good like it is a beautiful [TS]

  technical system that yeah I think if [TS]

  you're right that like if it never [TS]

  scaled to be incredibly big it would [TS]

  have stayed a beautiful technical system [TS]

  but because of how big it is and because [TS]

  of how much money could be made in it [TS]

  and you know all the it basically it's [TS]

  being like you know exploited like crazy [TS]

  for for financial gain and the result is [TS]

  a pretty nasty burning of energy for no [TS]

  reason indeed moving on neo and Tendo [TS]

  nada which apparently somebody is [TS]

  translated to I do not understand [TS]

  anything would like to ask do you think [TS]

  the next iPhone se will be called iPhone [TS]

  SC X which was a funny thought to say [TS]

  the least the way that the model 3 yeah [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  uh-huh my thoughts on this is that the [TS]

  iPhone se will just continue to be the [TS]

  iPhone se it will be more like a trim [TS]

  level if you will than an individual [TS]

  model like iPhone 7 and so there will be [TS]

  if there is another iPhone se which um [TS]

  I'd think there probably will be and if [TS]

  it eventually gets all the nifty bits [TS]

  from the iPhone 10 then I think it will [TS]

  still just be the iPhone se it'll just [TS]

  be the you know 2018 edition if you will [TS]

  no I don't mean that in the literal [TS]

  sense but it'll just be than the next [TS]

  version of it what do you think Marco [TS]

  honestly I don't really care it's it's a [TS]

  very nice important product but I don't [TS]

  really care what the name is I could [TS]

  also say they might do se too I share [TS]

  your opinion that it will probably get [TS]

  an update [TS]

  I would I would expect it to get my pay [TS]

  probably next spring maybe it's called [TS]

  the SE - maybe it's called the new [TS]

  iPhone se maybe it's called the iPhone [TS]

  se 2018 or whatever like it's fine I put [TS]

  this question in here because I thought [TS]

  it would be a quickie because I didn't [TS]

  think anyone would seriously try to [TS]

  answer it like you just did but good job [TS]

  I just took put it in here as yet [TS]

  another opportunity for me to tell an [TS]

  old Mac person a story don't know I'm [TS]

  glad some people know chatroom do know [TS]

  this that shows that the right kind of [TS]

  old people are in our chat [TS]

  but back in like 1988-89 the the Mac two [TS]

  had just come out and the successor to [TS]

  the Mac two was called the Mac 2x it was [TS]

  a faster version of the Mac two and the [TS]

  Mac se was the contemporary of the Mac - [TS]

  the all-in-one in temporary so they made [TS]

  that the Mac two gave way to the Mac 2x [TS]

  so have the Mac SC naturally it should [TS]

  give way to the Mac se X but of course [TS]

  they didn't want to do that because it [TS]

  spells out sex and they and their you [TS]

  know didn't have a product for that name [TS]

  so instead of calling it then the Mac se [TS]

  X they called the Mac SE / 30 and the [TS]

  su-30 is my favorite Mac ever and its [TS]

  entire name is derived from Apple's [TS]

  desire not to have a computer named sex [TS]

  and so it's funny all these years later [TS]

  that they have painted themselves into [TS]

  the same corner by having a successor [TS]

  product with a capital letter X in its [TS]

  name and having a product with se whose [TS]

  natural successor were they to follow [TS]

  that naming convention and make one with [TS]

  a notch or something would have an X and [TS]

  so I think they should call it the [TS]

  iPhone su-30 well and also I mean [TS]

  realistically speaking you know sex [TS]

  thing aside the X or 10 branding is the [TS]

  high end phone and it's gonna remain the [TS]

  high end phone for probably quite some [TS]

  time I would honestly be surprised if by [TS]

  the time like if the use of the letter X [TS]

  in the iPhone name does indeed end up [TS]

  filtering down the line which is not a [TS]

  given it might not if it filters down [TS]

  the line over over time either by the [TS]

  time it gets to the point where it would [TS]

  be suitable to use on a low-end model [TS]

  the iPhone se will not be the name [TS]

  that's used anymore for that model like [TS]

  they will have moved on to some other [TS]

  naming convention where se is no longer [TS]

  used so it's a funny question but like I [TS]

  don't think it would it would even be in [TS]

  a consideration because they're not [TS]

  bringing the letter X down that low in [TS]

  line in any way its capital and it's a [TS]

  10 like back in the Mac days it was it [TS]

  was a lowercase X and it was pronounced [TS]

  X so it really would have been capital s [TS]

  capital e lowercase X and the 2x was [TS]

  Roman numeral 2 you know two big bars [TS]

  and then the lowercase X so that was it [TS]

  I just wanted to tell the story of the [TS]

  ac30 for the people who don't know it I [TS]

  feel better for having known that story [TS]

  and in in a very sad and terrible turn [TS]

  of events I did not get to do the ask [TS]

  ATP notes before John did and normally [TS]

  that'd be kind of nice because I've had [TS]

  a busy week but John is that the [TS]

  following question to ask ATP so if you [TS]

  have any upset or angry emails that you [TS]

  would like to send or tweets please send [TS]

  them to John siracusa anyway James or [TS]

  James D who asks what's the blest best [TS]

  place to start when trying to listen to [TS]

  fish John do you have any opinions on [TS]

  this that everybody should get a [TS]

  question that's aimed at them every once [TS]

  in a while so this one's for you marker [TS]

  Casey do you want to go first I would [TS]

  say that you're gonna say some sort of [TS]

  live show probably the New Year's Eve [TS]

  show from the most recent year okay so [TS]

  basically what you need to know when [TS]

  getting into fish is that the album's [TS]

  are a great place to start to get to [TS]

  know what their music roughly sounds [TS]

  like but what most fish fans listen to [TS]

  most of the time is the live shows [TS]

  because they are substantially better if [TS]

  fish is the kind of thing you're into [TS]

  like it's like you can listen to the [TS]

  album's first and they're on every [TS]

  streaming service now it's like if and [TS]

  everybody has a streaming subscription [TS]

  for something these days so you can [TS]

  listen to fish music I'm pretty much [TS]

  anywhere you know any service you have I [TS]

  would suggest start if if you can if [TS]

  your service has it and most of them do [TS]

  start with one of the live albums now [TS]

  it's a little different than most bands [TS]

  in that while they have live album [TS]

  releases that that span like the last 20 [TS]

  years they put out like you know maybe [TS]

  10 of maybe 10 like official albums that [TS]

  are live and like one of the first ones [TS]

  called a live one that's on all the [TS]

  services you can definitely listen to a [TS]

  live one if you wanted to and it's good [TS]

  but unlike most bands every single fish [TS]

  show every concert they do is recorded [TS]

  from the soundboard professionally [TS]

  mastered and released a few hours after [TS]

  the show ends as a legal purchasable [TS]

  download from a site that they're [TS]

  affiliated with called live fish com I [TS]

  think live fish also has a OS apps where [TS]

  I think you can stream for free you just [TS]

  can't pick what they're playing but it's [TS]

  like a constant live stream [TS]

  that I think you can do for free so if [TS]

  you listen on your streaming service of [TS]

  choice and you decide that this is [TS]

  something you want to hear more of the [TS]

  way to get more into it is not to go [TS]

  listen to all their studio albums if you [TS]

  don't really it the way to get into it [TS]

  is to listen to more live shows and once [TS]

  you exhaust the official releases [TS]

  they've done over time the way to get [TS]

  more into it after that is to go to live [TS]

  fish either their app or the website and [TS]

  either preview for free or buy the stuff [TS]

  there and that's it and enjoy that took [TS]

  a lot less time than I expected I hope [TS]

  you'll insert some fish clip after you [TS]

  say the word enjoy at that point just [TS]

  like a guitar riff there are like three [TS]

  of the words from the middle of the nine [TS]

  words that are in the middle of the half [TS]

  an hour song [TS]

  you have to put in meat stick because [TS]

  that is the most preposterous fish song [TS]

  well which one I have hold on 37 [TS]

  recordings of meat stick [TS]

  in my collection so for reference I have [TS]

  77 hundred fish songs over one hundred [TS]

  and twelve gigs that span 42 days of [TS]

  total time and that's only what they've [TS]

  done since about 2009 and you buy every [TS]

  single show is that right yeah by the [TS]

  like they have like season passes on [TS]

  live fish whenever they whenever they [TS]

  like a new tour is announced and you can [TS]

  pre-order the entire tour as legal [TS]

  downloads so I just do that so it's like [TS]

  usually it's like a couple hundred bucks [TS]

  for like a whole summer tour or [TS]

  something like that and I just do that [TS]

  if you're so in a point to like if [TS]

  you're more into going to concerts they [TS]

  put on a great show and they put on lots [TS]

  of them and so even though they sell out [TS]

  like they put on just so many shows that [TS]

  they aren't that hard to get into if you [TS]

  if you try and you don't have to like [TS]

  pay a ridiculous price to do it or [TS]

  anything so if you are a concert goer I [TS]

  highly suggest you go to their concerts [TS]

  I personally just don't enjoy going to [TS]

  concerts very much I have been to [TS]

  exactly one Phish show and it was fine [TS]

  but I didn't feel like I need to go to [TS]

  more I really love listening to the live [TS]

  shows but I'm not a concert person but [TS]

  if you're a concert person especially if [TS]

  you're into the drug scene at all which [TS]

  again I am NOT they are apparently a [TS]

  great place to be if you're into that we [TS]

  are sponsor this week by aftershocks [TS]

  bone conduction headphones go to ATP [TS]

  aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

  after some headphones work by bone [TS]

  conduction so small transducers resting [TS]

  in front of your ears sends small [TS]

  vibrations through your cheek bones [TS]

  directly to your inner ear so they're [TS]

  not really putting anything in or on [TS]

  your ears themselves it's all going [TS]

  through your cheek bones from the front [TS]

  of your ear so this leaves your actual [TS]

  ears totally open with nothing blocking [TS]

  them [TS]

  nothing making them sweaty nothing [TS]

  making them hurt so of course this is [TS]

  great for comfort for exercise for hot [TS]

  weather there even ip55 certified for [TS]

  water resistance so you don't have to [TS]

  worry about that the biggest thing for [TS]

  me the big advantage of these is because [TS]

  they leave your ears open you hear the [TS]

  world around you in addition to say the [TS]

  podcast you listening to or the [TS]

  phonecall you're taking so this actually [TS]

  isn't so great if you're in a very loud [TS]

  place like a subway station in a big [TS]

  city but it's awesome if you want to do [TS]

  things like listen to a podcast or take [TS]

  a phone call while walking or while [TS]

  running or cycling where you really need [TS]

  to hear the world around you for [TS]

  practical or safety reasons and that [TS]

  could be as simple as you're at home and [TS]

  you need to take a phone call you want [TS]

  to listen to podcasts and you want to [TS]

  know maybe when your kid upstairs wakes [TS]

  up from their nap or if somebody knocks [TS]

  on the door you want to be able to hear [TS]

  it so this is great not for loud [TS]

  environments not for like pristine music [TS]

  listening but for practical speech [TS]

  content of phone calls podcasts [TS]

  audiobooks it's great for that when [TS]

  you're in an environment where you [TS]

  didn't want or need to hear the world [TS]

  around you I highly suggest using these [TS]

  things if you have need like that I have [TS]

  used them myself I'm a big fan they I [TS]

  had great headphones that I loved before [TS]

  this for walking around and these have [TS]

  totally replaced them they are wonderful [TS]

  so check out the aftershocks line of [TS]

  headphones they have the titanium model [TS]

  which I had at first they now also have [TS]

  the air model because even lighter and [TS]

  has a few additional little features you [TS]

  can't go wrong with Eve of them honestly [TS]

  check out the lineup today at ATP [TS]

  aftershocks calm that's ATP aftershocks [TS]

  calm thank you so much to aftershocks [TS]

  for sponsoring our show so this week as [TS]

  we record in fact it will be in just a [TS]

  couple of days is iPhone 10 pre-order [TS]

  time because the world revolves around [TS]

  California and California stuck in the [TS]

  past which is to say outside of Hawaii [TS]

  and I guess Alaska it is the last [TS]

  American time zone please don't email me [TS]

  the pre-orders will go up at midnight [TS]

  California time and as as they do every [TS]

  year California gives a big middle [TS]

  finger to the rest of the world / [TS]

  especially country and at 3 o'clock in [TS]

  the morning I will be waking up on [TS]

  Friday morning to pre-order to iPhone [TS]

  tens one for me one for Aaron and I [TS]

  genuinely genuinely will be stunned if I [TS]

  receive either of these in 2017 [TS]

  I will be getting one of the I don't [TS]

  remember the official name white and one [TS]

  of the I don't remember the official [TS]

  name black it's both 256 gigs because [TS]

  children and movies and things of that [TS]

  nature and I will be sufficiently broke [TS]

  they're after John what is your [TS]

  intention for this coming Friday so [TS]

  that's the reason I put this topic in [TS]

  was just to have someone who knows and [TS]

  cares more than I do tell me exactly [TS]

  what time this is happening so I can [TS]

  decide whether I'm gonna be doing [TS]

  anything obviously I'm not ordering one [TS]

  for myself potentially I could be trying [TS]

  to do this at 3 a.m. for my wife for her [TS]

  phone I need her to tell me what color [TS]

  she wants and what size I guess those [TS]

  the only options right [TS]

  color in size yeah yeah there's only two [TS]

  sizes 64 256 right so yeah because even [TS]

  it like I think she wants to know [TS]

  whether she really wants this first but [TS]

  you can always cancel an order so it [TS]

  kind of makes sense to just like try to [TS]

  get in and if you happen to get an order [TS]

  and you're lucky fine and probably [TS]

  before your order ships you'll be able [TS]

  to like see it in a store or something [TS]

  I'm assuming I think I was just returned [TS]

  after what is the 14 day return window [TS]

  or whatever yeah yeah so I assume that [TS]

  she's gonna want a pre-order for this [TS]

  and so this may be the first time I [TS]

  actually do is I've never done it before [TS]

  cuz I was just wait for my phones and [TS]

  normally she doesn't care what we do but [TS]

  I think she's getting impatient with our [TS]

  phone which by the way this is her phone [TS]

  she's got an iPhone 6s plus and it's got [TS]

  the latest version of iOS 11 on it and [TS]

  she says it's like slowing down and [TS]

  getting all sort of stuttery and stuff [TS]

  and I didn't notice her animations for [TS]

  stuttery so I turn down reduce emotions [TS]

  like that it's fixed no more stuttering [TS]

  animations but he still complains that [TS]

  it it's slow and crab but maybe hurt [TS]

  maybe her storage just filling up I got [TS]

  to look at it but if anyone has any [TS]

  bright ideas and how to if it's some [TS]

  sort of problem related to iOS 11 that [TS]

  makes iPhone 6s plus is slow down [TS]

  because 6s Plus isn't that old I think [TS]

  it should be fine but anyway she's [TS]

  getting frustrated with her current [TS]

  phone and wants the phone sooner rather [TS]

  than later so if she can't get in a [TS]

  pre-order for this she might just buy an [TS]

  8 plus which would be her probably fine [TS]

  and she'd be happy with it but it's [TS]

  certainly more boring than than trying [TS]

  the 10 let me just put it on record John [TS]

  before [TS]

  here Markos intentions that if you order [TS]

  tea no phone and if she does not want it [TS]

  I would like dibs on it's gonna be I [TS]

  don't care or what sighs whatever 64 I [TS]

  don't care I am that like so this is [TS]

  this is the first world he is to first [TS]

  of all problems right that I'm this [TS]

  worked up as I get every year about [TS]

  getting the new Apple hotness quickly [TS]

  but this is even worse than every other [TS]

  year because Apple has all but come out [TS]

  and said or maybe they did say at some [TS]

  point but they've all become out and [TS]

  said good friggin luck getting this [TS]

  anytime soon so I am trying to work [TS]

  whatever angle I can in order to get [TS]

  myself in iphone 10 as quickly as [TS]

  possible [TS]

  that being said Marco what's your [TS]

  intention so I'm gonna get well I'm [TS]

  going to try to get I love Kim albergue [TS]

  user in the chat said the official color [TS]

  names are kind of black and somewhat [TS]

  white I'm going for some white variety [TS]

  yeah you know so I've I've had every [TS]

  single iPhone that I've had so far has [TS]

  been in whatever version of black was [TS]

  the black and black they had that year [TS]

  like I have Jeff like iPhone 7 currently [TS]

  and you know before that just Space Gray [TS]

  Space Gray basically it's funny Apple [TS]

  has no idea what color space is clearly [TS]

  how all the different space grades I've [TS]

  had but it's just in various points in [TS]

  the past I have had interest in getting [TS]

  one of the lighter backed ones like the [TS]

  silver backed ones just for a variety [TS]

  sake or certain models I thought it [TS]

  looked better but I never wanted the I [TS]

  never wanted the white front front plate [TS]

  on it like above the screen and [TS]

  everything just like John right you know [TS]

  I just don't think those look very good [TS]

  now I have the option to get either [TS]

  color with the same you know black [TS]

  knotch [TS]

  and and black bezel around it so [TS]

  honestly in the pictures I've seen so [TS]

  far which admittedly is not many of them [TS]

  because there nobody has these yet but [TS]

  in the picture I saw like from the [TS]

  launch event from like the backstage [TS]

  area I thought the kind of white one [TS]

  looked better than the somewhat black [TS]

  one but again it could just because I [TS]

  just want variety cuz I've had so many [TS]

  black phones in a row anyway so I'm [TS]

  gonna go for that one [TS]

  I'm gonna go for the large capacity and [TS]

  the Verizon or sim-free one if I can at [TS]

  all get it [TS]

  soon because I am an AT&T customer and [TS]

  I'm not interested in changing networks [TS]

  as Verizon doesn't actually cover my [TS]

  house or most of my neighborhood very [TS]

  well the reason I want the Verizon [TS]

  version despite not being not being a [TS]

  Verizon customer is that they're doing [TS]

  the same thing again this year that they [TS]

  started last year with the seven which [TS]

  is that for the GSM only ones the ones [TS]

  that are being sold as AT&T phones in [TS]

  the US and I don't know what situation [TS]

  is elsewhere [TS]

  those have an Intel cellular modem and [TS]

  the ones that are sold either sim-free [TS]

  or that are sold on CDMA based networks [TS]

  like Verizon and Sprint are using a [TS]

  Qualcomm modem allegedly when this [TS]

  started last year with the 7o the modems [TS]

  are the same it doesn't matter whatever [TS]

  phone you get it's fine you know and [TS]

  there have been other iPhones in the [TS]

  past I'd like minor component variations [TS]

  like whether you got like a Samsung or [TS]

  TSMC system on a chip and I think the [TS]

  success generation have like a minor [TS]

  battery variation and stuff anyway I [TS]

  have found with my experience with the [TS]

  Intel modem iPhone 7s on AT&T I've had a [TS]

  lot of call dropping problems away but [TS]

  my microphone on my phone will stop [TS]

  working and the person they're in will [TS]

  not be able to hear me and I have done a [TS]

  lot of research I've heard from a lot of [TS]

  people customers I've even heard from a [TS]

  number from a few geniuses at Apple bars [TS]

  or groves or whatever they called [TS]

  arborist now because they're in the [TS]

  Grove I don't know what they are anyway [TS]

  heard from a couple of arborists that [TS]

  this is actually a pretty big thing that [TS]

  it's a pretty widespread issue that the [TS]

  Intel modem AT&T iPhone sevens [TS]

  frequently have this issue where the [TS]

  microphone drops out during a phone call [TS]

  like this is just a thing and so I'm [TS]

  trying my best with this generation and [TS]

  by the way this has been really annoying [TS]

  like you think you don't get you know [TS]

  you know as a nerd you think oh I never [TS]

  make phone calls it isn't that big of a [TS]

  deal and then I'm like on the phone with [TS]

  somebody at Apple and it drops and it's [TS]

  like yeah you know you don't want those [TS]

  calls to be unreliable what they [TS]

  happened for an app developer like you [TS]

  want you want to stay on that call it's [TS]

  really annoying when that happens and it [TS]

  makes it very hard to use this as a [TS]

  phone and I've actually had two [TS]

  different iPhone sevens because one one [TS]

  was replaced for a bad lightning port [TS]

  halfway through the year and they both [TS]

  do it to some degree so I know it's not [TS]

  just some fluke thing with my very first [TS]

  one [TS]

  Tiff's did it too like we they all do it [TS]

  and just an issue of whether whatever [TS]

  network conditions caused this you know [TS]

  whether that affects where you are or [TS]

  not is whether it's gonna happen to you [TS]

  or not it seems but anyway so I'm trying [TS]

  my hardest to get the Qualcomm modem in [TS]

  the iPhone 10 and the only way to do [TS]

  that is to get the Verizon or sim free [TS]

  version in the US and they're not gonna [TS]

  probably offer the sim free version for [TS]

  a while they usually they don't with the [TS]

  high-profile release they don't usually [TS]

  offer it immediately usually it's a few [TS]

  weeks out or a couple months out even so [TS]

  I'm gonna try to get a Verizon one but I [TS]

  don't have a verizon account so that's [TS]

  gonna be pretty much impossible for me [TS]

  to actually place an order for that so [TS]

  what I'm probably gonna end up having to [TS]

  do is order the ATT one in the app or [TS]

  whatever I do that night and then just [TS]

  go to the stores constantly over the [TS]

  next few weeks because there's no way to [TS]

  come on day one it says go to the stores [TS]

  for the next few weeks and I hope I can [TS]

  get myself Verizon one or a SIM free one [TS]

  somehow and that's about it I I - I'm [TS]

  gonna wake up at 3 in the morning and [TS]

  I'm gonna try to place my order I know [TS]

  I'm not gonna be able to and when I am [TS]

  finally able to probably 10 minutes into [TS]

  the ordering window the delivery dates [TS]

  if I'm lucky will be December mm if I'm [TS]

  more honest with myself probably January [TS]

  and or or even later that's 2018 so I'm [TS]

  I'm just not that optimistic about my [TS]

  chances of getting it in the app the [TS]

  only reason I'm waking up at 3 a.m. at [TS]

  all is that on the on the off chance [TS]

  that that Apple has made more of them [TS]

  than they thought they would this week [TS]

  or whatever and you know if you can [TS]

  actually place an order at 3 a.m. and [TS]

  get it within a couple of weeks of [TS]

  launch day I will feel really stupid if [TS]

  I don't if I didn't do that like if I [TS]

  decide to just get up at 8 a.m. and try [TS]

  to place here then and then go to the [TS]

  stores and just hope for the best like [TS]

  I'm gonna feel really stupid but I am [TS]

  NOT optimistic I think it's gonna be a [TS]

  really bad scene I think even people who [TS]

  get there in the first minute or two of [TS]

  the order of being open are gonna be [TS]

  seeing dates in December yep and it's [TS]

  just it's gonna be it's gonna be rough [TS]

  and it's and that's that's if you're [TS]

  lucky if you're lucky to get it this [TS]

  year and I I really am a little worried [TS]

  for like what this is going to do for [TS]

  Apple's financials and their sales [TS]

  numbers and ever the [TS]

  for the next few quarters because I [TS]

  really don't think they're gonna sell [TS]

  nearly as many of these as there's [TS]

  demand for but the people who have been [TS]

  waiting for this some portion of them [TS]

  will say oh I forget it if I can't get [TS]

  the same time soon or if they're if the [TS]

  initial reviews come out and they and [TS]

  there's some annoyance with them that [TS]

  that certain people don't want to deal [TS]

  with or that won't solve their needs [TS]

  well enough there is gonna be some [TS]

  percentage of those people who say oh I [TS]

  forget it I'll get an A+ or I'll get an [TS]

  8 and and that'll be it and so the you [TS]

  know Apple will sell phone to those [TS]

  people for sure like it if I had to [TS]

  guess I'm I'm guessing that Friday like [TS]

  after everyone has tried to place the [TS]

  order for the iPhone 10 and has been [TS]

  told it's gonna be January [TS]

  I'm guessing Friday afternoon is gonna [TS]

  be probably the big that the second [TS]

  biggest sales day for the iPhone 8 plus [TS]

  for its entire run the biggest was [TS]

  probably its opening day [TS]

  I bet the eight plus has the second [TS]

  biggest day on Friday because of all [TS]

  those people who are going to be [TS]

  discouraged from the X sorry 10 that was [TS]

  discouraged from the 10 and they're [TS]

  gonna say oh I forget it I'll get the A+ [TS]

  and and that'll be that but that's you [TS]

  know that that's gonna be some [TS]

  percentage of people I don't think it to [TS]

  be a high percentage people I think most [TS]

  of the people who were really holding [TS]

  out for the iPhone 10 are not gonna [TS]

  settle for the 8 plus or the 8 they're [TS]

  gonna just wait for the 10 even if that [TS]

  means spring time like and by then they [TS]

  might say you know what now I'm a third [TS]

  of the way until the next iPhone comes [TS]

  out I'll just wait till the x2 or [TS]

  whatever might come out next of all you [TS]

  know like if the shipping delays are [TS]

  long enough they've run that risk so [TS]

  this actually might be a problem like [TS]

  Apple is taking a pretty big risk here [TS]

  with the way they have launched this [TS]

  phone I tell you one thing I would not [TS]

  want to be Tim Cook for the next year [TS]

  that well I mean I guess it's very he's [TS]

  probably is pretty good life but but [TS]

  like this I have a feeling he's gonna be [TS]

  under a lot of scrutiny if if these [TS]

  financials don't work out because they [TS]

  can't sell enough of the iPhones people [TS]

  actually are waiting for [TS]

  that's gonna be a problem for Tim Cook [TS]

  it'll even out over time though because [TS]

  I feel like all the reports we're seeing [TS]

  about inventory problems are all none of [TS]

  them say it's anything systemic like a [TS]

  year from now this should be settled [TS]

  right and so that's bad because you got [TS]

  a whole year of under shipment right but [TS]

  that it evens out eventually and I think [TS]

  he always takes the long view yes people [TS]

  are gonna complain to him about all the [TS]

  numbers are crappy or whatever but that [TS]

  over a two year three year time period [TS]

  this you know the sales of this phone [TS]

  will just be a different shape but the [TS]

  total numbers should be good because as [TS]

  you said if they sales they lose for [TS]

  people who want to buy a 10 but can't [TS]

  get it are probably good to go to the [TS]

  eighth they have good retention and then [TS]

  I'm gonna say well if I can't get a 10 [TS]

  I'm gonna try an Android phone I mean [TS]

  there's some of that always but I think [TS]

  the bigger potential problem is not [TS]

  inventory which is you know it's bad [TS]

  it's better if you have enough phones to [TS]

  sell to people that's much better right [TS]

  but it does even out over the long haul [TS]

  if your things are good [TS]

  the real danger is what if the 10 is not [TS]

  that good or if the 10 is not does not [TS]

  satisfy the customers who all think they [TS]

  want it now because you can't that [TS]

  doesn't even out over time that gets [TS]

  worse over time and that increases the [TS]

  chance of someone's gonna go to it you [TS]

  know try an Android phone or something [TS]

  like that so I mean I bet he's more [TS]

  worried Apple should be more worried [TS]

  about 10 not being good phone than they [TS]

  are about not but having enough of them [TS]

  they should be worried about not having [TS]

  enough of them but not as much as not [TS]

  having a good phone um and from my [TS]

  perspective like I'm I always cancel [TS]

  patience on this like I'm I'm getting [TS]

  one it just so happens that there's this [TS]

  confluence of events where you know my [TS]

  wife's phone is old and it's her year [TS]

  and it's getting slow because of iOS 11 [TS]

  or I could just because of upgrade a lot [TS]

  of Voodoo people suggest to try to you [TS]

  know make it become faster including [TS]

  resetting a bunch of stuff but I hate [TS]

  doing that because like if you reset [TS]

  stuff and it doesn't make it faster then [TS]

  you have to change all your settings [TS]

  back for and you just you just cost [TS]

  yourself even more time and yourself be [TS]

  more annoyed anyway she's impatient I'm [TS]

  not casey is always impatient obviously [TS]

  as he already described the team he's [TS]

  telephone now-now-now and marko kind of [TS]

  needs to have the new phone no no no as [TS]

  well as far as I'm concerned I minded [TS]

  one yeah I think Marco and I are [TS]

  probably tied for least amount of [TS]

  patience but he's got he's got at least [TS]

  a legit reason that he can rationalize [TS]

  like he's got a [TS]

  an app for it and everything right I do [TS]

  this for a living yeah but you're gonna [TS]

  help you're gonna have one available at [TS]

  work like it doesn't have to be your [TS]

  personal phone am i yeah sure right [TS]

  I mean if it's important for you for [TS]

  your application to be available yeah [TS]

  but but everyone like everyone at [TS]

  everyone's job is under the same problem [TS]

  that we're at like I know it's a problem [TS]

  right but you have a lot more than you [TS]

  don't have to get a phone just somebody [TS]

  to so what I'm getting at is it I think [TS]

  just someone on ATP needs to have the [TS]

  phone for the purposes of of doing this [TS]

  show right but we don't all need to have [TS]

  the phone so I think it'll be fine if we [TS]

  just get one of them and of course it [TS]

  would be nice if Apple just sent us one [TS]

  to review intent Apple people but so far [TS]

  podcast still don't exist as far as [TS]

  they're concerned so we wait patiently [TS]

  and we will try to order with the rest [TS]

  of the people for a loose definition of [TS]

  patiently but yes but yeah but for [TS]

  regular people who are not in a hurry [TS]

  just wait like wait until the spring [TS]

  nothing will happen to you if your phone [TS]

  currently works fine and isn't like [TS]

  doesn't have some weird problem it's [TS]

  making you want to get it don't feel [TS]

  that thing that Casey feels where he [TS]

  just needs to have the newest greatest [TS]

  phone like especially in the case of the [TS]

  10 which might be annoying or [TS]

  problematic in ways that nobody knows [TS]

  yet because nobody has them and it's [TS]

  very different the other phone it's not [TS]

  a known quantity there's so many things [TS]

  that could go wrong with it so and you [TS]

  don't want the first batch of them like [TS]

  there there are so many reasons to just [TS]

  just relax [TS]

  just it's so much more relaxing to be [TS]

  pretend you're not listening to detect [TS]

  podcast and pretend you just wander into [TS]

  an Apple Store and March and go oh these [TS]

  new iPhones they go buy one of these and [TS]

  they'll say would you like one you'll [TS]

  say yes I would like one and they'll [TS]

  bring it from the back for you you'll [TS]

  buy it like a normal person who doesn't [TS]

  listen to the accidental type podcast [TS]

  it's cool like I'll also say like in in [TS]

  the craziness of trying to get one if [TS]

  you buy one from somebody else don't [TS]

  have them ship it in the box that Apple [TS]

  shipped to them in as I learned last [TS]

  year in this horrible incident I still [TS]

  feel so bad in this horrible incident [TS]

  basically you know I think Apple tracks [TS]

  them pretty well when they ship them to [TS]

  the original customer such that I don't [TS]

  think people ups are trying to steal [TS]

  them or anything like that out of the [TS]

  boxes at Apple ships and then but if [TS]

  Yuri tape up that box and ship it to [TS]

  somebody else [TS]

  as resale those happen to get stolen [TS]

  quite a lot as I learned last year and [TS]

  so don't do that put it in a different [TS]

  box maybe and maybe maybe don't try to [TS]

  every sell it if you do try to resell [TS]

  yeah for the love of God put it in [TS]

  different box and don't label it iPhone [TS]

  or a rock or something did you know it [TS]

  was just the plastic wrap from the [TS]

  outside of the of the iPhone it's a [TS]

  little bit classier when they replace it [TS]

  with a rock or something I feel like [TS]

  that shows the personal touch for the [TS]

  thieves [TS]

  yeah and I got a very lightweight box [TS]

  that was literally stolen from the UPS [TS]

  supply chain because it was stamped [TS]

  before like it had its weight stamped on [TS]

  its label before it was replaced by [TS]

  nothing so that was fun yeah the other [TS]

  thing I would say is if you think you [TS]

  might want one don't follow John's [TS]

  advice and be patient if you think [TS]

  there's any change you might want to put [TS]

  an order in because you can you can [TS]

  cancel it with like three clicks if you [TS]

  decide before it ships but you don't [TS]

  want it just put the order in if you are [TS]

  at all on the fence because then you at [TS]

  least have an option to get one in two [TS]

  months when it finally shifts or what [TS]

  like you'll have a date that you can get [TS]

  one but now you're tempting people to [TS]

  stay awake at 3 a.m. like you know or [TS]

  midnight at least like you're saying [TS]

  well if you're gonna order it you might [TS]

  as water at the beginning is why yeah [TS]

  anyway so then you know you're setting [TS]

  your alarm for midnight what I'm saying [TS]

  I'm actually saying like just like if [TS]

  you think there's any way you can if you [TS]

  think if you think there's any chance [TS]

  you're gonna want one stay up till 3:00 [TS]

  a.m. or wake up at 3:00 a.m. and do plus [TS]

  you're encouraging more competition for [TS]

  us though most people that's a bigger [TS]

  problem stay up till 3:15 a.m. and order [TS]

  it yeah that's nothing I'm hoping I [TS]

  might actually be doing this this year [TS]

  is I'm hoping that like the the casuals [TS]

  all bought iPhone eights right like [TS]

  normally there's like this big pent up [TS]

  demand for the new phone and everyone [TS]

  who wants the new phone goes at once but [TS]

  now we have a tier where it's like you [TS]

  want the new phone but do you want like [TS]

  the super expensive one or do you just [TS]

  want the new iPhone because it's pretty [TS]

  good and it's new it's different enough [TS]

  that I think it satisfies what people [TS]

  want you know it's like it's a different [TS]

  outside with the glass things and the [TS]

  better [TS]

  cameras and you know all that other good [TS]

  stuff different colors right I hope [TS]

  those people are people that you would [TS]

  have normally been competing with like [TS]

  those people were there trying to get [TS]

  the seventh or whatever right but a lot [TS]

  of those people go out and they got the [TS]

  eights now leaving I hope a smaller [TS]

  group of people for the ten now [TS]

  unfortunately that smaller group people [TS]

  at 10 is probably competing for a way [TS]

  way way way smaller number of tens that [TS]

  are gonna ship in 2017 so it's probably [TS]

  not good but I do like the fact that at [TS]

  least we got a little bit of help from [TS]

  the people buying aids yeah but yeah [TS]

  yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't count on that [TS]

  too much actually helping yeah we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by Squarespace make [TS]

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  sites are incredibly easy to make you [TS]

  will wonder why you ever made a site any [TS]

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  made sense that time was before [TS]

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  your own CMS or G's even write your own [TS]

  CMS if you're a nerd like me there's [TS]

  pretty much no need for that for like [TS]

  99% of websites you can just use [TS]

  Squarespace and it is so easy to use the [TS]

  tools are drag-and-drop and they have [TS]

  live previews everything is what you see [TS]

  is what you get it's all rich text it is [TS]

  amazingly easy to create the site you [TS]

  want Squarespace whether that's a blog a [TS]

  portfolio a store a podcast and those [TS]

  are not you know stores and podcasts are [TS]

  not hard or they're not easy things to [TS]

  host but Squarespace makes them easy for [TS]

  you they have all this functionality [TS]

  built in it's really quite incredible [TS]

  what you can do is wear space in really [TS]

  just a few clicks no matter what your [TS]

  skill level is making websites [TS]

  Squarespace is also a great option if [TS]

  somebody has asked you to make a website [TS]

  for them not only can you do it yourself [TS]

  but even better you couldn't show them [TS]

  Squarespace maybe you can get them [TS]

  started spend like 20 minutes setting it [TS]

  up for them just for just to make it [TS]

  easier and easier sell for them and then [TS]

  you can show them look you can do this [TS]

  yourself you don't need me and then [TS]

  you're off the hook for making it you're [TS]

  off the hook for supporting it you just [TS]

  hand it over to them and if they need [TS]

  any help at all and honestly they [TS]

  probably won't because Squarespace is so [TS]

  easy but that they need any help at all [TS]

  Squarespace supports it so you don't [TS]

  have to [TS]

  it's a wonderful setup I highly suggest [TS]

  it so check out today whether you're [TS]

  making a site for you or someone else [TS]

  Squarespace is almost definitely the way [TS]

  to go for pretty much anything you want [TS]

  to do so check it out today at [TS] with a free trial site [TS]

  you can see for yourself without paying [TS]

  anything how good it is enter offer code [TS]

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  Squarespace [TS]

  make your next move so I was wondering [TS]

  this is this is probably our last time [TS]

  to talk about the 10 or speculate about [TS]

  it before there's actual press reviews [TS]

  out I would guess is there anything [TS]

  about listed John you mentioned earlier [TS]

  that like you know the biggest risk for [TS]

  the for Apple of the 10 is that it has [TS]

  some kind of problem where it isn't very [TS]

  good or isn't very compelling after all [TS]

  what do you think the biggest risks are [TS]

  for it like like what what's that what [TS]

  are the biggest ways that this might not [TS]

  pan out so I mean the the big ones that [TS]

  a lot of the prices talk about his face [TS]

  ID and I think that is again not not [TS]

  having ever tried it and not you know [TS]

  not getting much information of the [TS]

  people who did a face ID doesn't work [TS]

  well enough like you know I don't know [TS]

  if it has to be as good as touch ID out [TS]

  of the gate but it has to be close like [TS]

  if let's put it this way [TS]

  what did use a bad analogy that will [TS]

  make everyone said if face ID works like [TS]

  Siri it will be a bad scene cuz cuz Siri [TS]

  does work and you can demo it and it [TS]

  does cool things but for the unlocking [TS]

  your phone if face I'd be like falls [TS]

  below some minimum threshold of [TS]

  convenience people unlock their phones a [TS]

  lot and I think a lot of people lock [TS]

  their phones now like we're not in the [TS]

  old days where you just slide to unlock [TS]

  people have codes on their phones [TS]

  they're used to touch ID touch ID is [TS]

  amazing and works great face ID has some [TS]

  minimum bar that has to reach so if it [TS]

  doesn't reach that that is a big problem [TS]

  because no one wants to get a phone and [TS]

  just really be annoyed every time you [TS]

  have to unlock it and the second thing [TS]

  is app updates you have to update your [TS]

  app to be able to snoop around your [TS]

  corners and the home line thing and the [TS]

  knotch and obviously I listed them [TS]

  probably in the order that they're [TS]

  annoying like you would think the notch [TS]

  is the problem but having seen overcast [TS]

  and simulator slingshots and everything [TS]

  like it seems clear the rounded corners [TS]

  are a much bigger [TS]

  than you think if you're not if you [TS]

  haven't consider how you're gonna fit [TS]

  your app into that because it really [TS]

  does cut off a lot of things and so [TS]

  updating apps how fast the developers [TS]

  gonna do it if you buy a new phone and [TS]

  face I'd be works great but every app [TS]

  you put on it looks all weird and janky [TS]

  and goes crazy and landscape even though [TS]

  it's not quote-unquote the phones [TS]

  problem like oh the phone is fine [TS]

  nothing wrong with the phone people will [TS]

  have a bad impression I waited all this [TS]

  time I stay up to 3:00 a.m. I spent [TS]

  $1,200 and as a reward all my apps look [TS]

  and work weird on this phone those are [TS]

  the two that occurred to me right off [TS]

  the bat [TS]

  setting aside like all the batteries [TS]

  exploded there's some kind of hardware [TS]

  reliability problem or you know all that [TS]

  stuff that can happen with any phone but [TS]

  the things that are unique to the 10 [TS]

  face ID and app updates I agree with [TS]

  John [TS]

  I am super curious to see real world [TS]

  reviews of face ID because I suspect [TS]

  it's going to be as good as Apple [TS]

  promises but I'm scared and you know [TS]

  I've talked to friends at Apple that [TS]

  have used them and and and they all say [TS]

  no really it's amazing but I don't know [TS]

  yeah I I want to I want to have a third [TS]

  party tell me what they think and I'm [TS]

  cautiously optimistic that it will be [TS]

  very good and I think it's going to be [TS]

  pretty darn amazing I think the face ID [TS]

  is the most obvious stumbling block that [TS]

  could happen but I think the most [TS]

  obvious obvious stumbling block that [TS]

  will happen is what John said about [TS]

  third-party apps that they're just not [TS]

  updated in timely fashion or not updated [TS]

  well or whatever the case may be [TS]

  and I think that's the thing that is [TS]

  going to be most telling and we'll see [TS]

  whenever these reviews come out we'll [TS]

  see if though if their reviewers have [TS]

  run into a lot of that yeah I think you [TS]

  guys pretty much covered what I was [TS]

  gonna say too like apps I think are the [TS]

  biggest thing I worry about and and not [TS]

  just like how many apps will be there on [TS]

  on day one because I think the answer to [TS]

  that is probably gonna be not enough [TS]

  okay there's gonna be some but probably [TS]

  not enough I don't even know if I'm [TS]

  probably not gonna make day one with [TS]

  overcast Bay because I just keep running [TS]

  into really annoying [TS]

  you eye issues that are you know some of [TS]

  which are my fault many of us are my [TS]

  fault from like you know technical debt [TS]

  that I'm still repaying and trying to [TS]

  get rid of over my previous UI hacks but [TS]

  some of which are just the iPhone being [TS]

  harder to work with the night that I [TS]

  predicted and the UI being harder to [TS]

  manage I'm predicted but ultimately the [TS]

  biggest problem with apps is gonna is [TS]

  first it's gonna be when the apps get [TS]

  letterboxed like I've seen a few people [TS]

  running simulator tricks to kind of show [TS]

  like what apps look like when they're [TS]

  not updated for the iPhone 10 when [TS]

  they're running on the iPhone 10 size [TS]

  screen and they just look ridiculous [TS]

  like it's almost as if they look almost [TS]

  like when the iPad first came out and [TS]

  you could run iPhone apps in a little [TS]

  tiny window like in the middle of the [TS]

  iPad yep it almost looks at that [TS]

  ridiculous like they just run in this [TS]

  tiny little area in the middle with [TS]

  these giant black bars letterboxing the [TS]

  top and bottom of the phone it looks [TS]

  really bad and this is not just a simple [TS]

  recompile with a bigger storyboard like [TS]

  this is a this is a large undertaking [TS]

  for a lot of apps best-case scenario [TS]

  even for very simply designed apps even [TS]

  apps that use very standard stuff that [TS]

  make it very easy to convert even they [TS]

  typically have to spend like at least a [TS]

  couple days on this update you know it's [TS]

  a it's a significant change that a lot [TS]

  of things have to do to adapt to this [TS]

  screen because it's so different [TS]

  it isn't just like the same properties [TS]

  but bigger it's you know there's no more [TS]

  corners and now the bottom is not solid [TS]

  and you can't really put anything there [TS]

  and you should probably take gestures [TS]

  away from being near it and the top is [TS]

  giant but you can't put anything there [TS]

  and you should take just like there's [TS]

  there's all sorts of and when you rotate [TS]

  the phone if you happen to support [TS]

  landscape in your app you have to change [TS]

  something on almost every screen of your [TS]

  app and that may be difficult or not [TS]

  depending if like if you use table views [TS]

  and you use background things in table [TS]

  views [TS]

  chances are you have work to do like [TS]

  there's so many little and big design [TS]

  changes and technical changes your app [TS]

  now has to do and to give up a credit [TS]

  like the API for all the safe area [TS]

  and stuff is remarkably complete and [TS]

  remarkably useful for a compliment for [TS]

  accommodating the knotch and the various [TS]

  insects the notch creates especially in [TS]

  landscape mode like the API is good but [TS]

  we still have to use it we still have to [TS]

  do it and work on it and redesign things [TS]

  and move things and test things and it's [TS]

  just proving to be a ton of work for [TS]

  almost every developer I've talked to [TS]

  about it so I would not expect many apps [TS]

  to be updated soon and and no matter how [TS]

  like even even if the apps you use for [TS]

  the most part are by really on the ball [TS]

  developers who we're really gonna be [TS]

  there on day one and be ready you're [TS]

  still probably gonna use a number of [TS]

  apps throughout your day-to-day life [TS]

  that aren't gonna be updated for a while [TS]

  so you're gonna have those giant ugly [TS]

  black bars on top and bottom for a long [TS]

  time and you know depending on what apps [TS]

  you use but like you're gonna see this a [TS]

  lot for a while and it's gonna be it's [TS]

  gonna be annoying for you for owners of [TS]

  the 10-4 for a while the other thing is [TS]

  that I worry with the 10 quite how much [TS]

  of iOS has been rooted in the idea for a [TS]

  long time that you you can always reach [TS]

  things in the top bar of an app and to [TS]

  some extent the bottom bars of an app [TS]

  like you know but you know button bars [TS]

  toolbars tab bars and with the iPhone 10 [TS]

  it is a very different aspect ratio than [TS]

  any other iPhones or iOS devices have [TS]

  ever been and it is very very tall and [TS]

  skinny if you have trouble reaching the [TS]

  top and bottom [TS]

  top and bottom [TS]

  autumn of a screen on my phone plus [TS]

  you're definitely gonna have to have [TS]

  problems reaching top and bottom of the [TS]

  screen on the iPhone 10 and so much of [TS]

  iOS has been built on the assumption [TS]

  that you can put pretty frequently used [TS]

  buttons and things in bars on the top [TS]

  and bottom of the interface that even [TS]

  when you account for the in sets from [TS]

  the knotch and from the home indicator [TS]

  area on the bottom the things are still [TS]

  gonna be really hard to reach for a lot [TS]

  of people and apps will eventually [TS]

  change from this like the plus phones [TS]

  encourage apps to change to some degree [TS]

  from this but it's it wasn't quite as [TS]

  bad and you could cut you could that you [TS]

  could still say well if you have really [TS]

  big hands you're buying the plus or if [TS]

  you don't mind using two hand you're [TS]

  buying the plus but oh well that's [TS]

  that's just because you're buying the [TS]

  plus you can deal with it but now like [TS]

  this is going to be like the mainstream [TS]

  power user phone and also the plus kind [TS]

  of already has been becoming that [TS]

  honestly for about the last year year [TS]

  and a half or so [TS]

  so apps have to totally rethink their [TS]

  interaction models to try to minimize [TS]

  requiring use of the top and bottom of [TS]

  the screen because those are gonna be [TS]

  way harder to reach from way more people [TS]

  now than they were before the OS in [TS]

  general is gonna have to do that also [TS]

  like iOS is going to have to change a [TS]

  lot of its own standards and a lot of [TS]

  its own app designs to to better [TS]

  accommodate this and that's all gonna [TS]

  take time it's gonna take years so I [TS]

  think you know the overall bullet point [TS]

  here of risks to the iPhone tens [TS]

  reception and to the quality of using [TS]

  one for the next you know a little while [TS]

  the overall heading there is apps but [TS]

  that's way bigger and potentially way [TS]

  long are ticket right you might find it [TS]

  really annoying to use apps on it until [TS]

  things are better designed for it so [TS]

  that's a pretty big sticking point the [TS]

  only other thing I would think of is [TS]

  battery life the battery life is a giant [TS]

  question mark because we've never had an [TS]

  oled iphone i've seen you're the second [TS]

  person I've seen worried about battery [TS]

  life but I didn't listen on things [TS]

  because this is the phone that they said [TS]

  has two hours more battery life so even [TS]

  if they're off it still has better [TS]

  battery life than the seven right what [TS]

  do you [TS]

  could be worse than seven well the way [TS]

  they measure battery life is useless for [TS]

  real-world use it's it always has been [TS]

  whatever measure they use for battery [TS]

  life does not reflect the way anyone I [TS]

  know uses their phones but [TS]

  proportionately this they said the 7 was [TS]

  better than the 6 and it was right it [TS]

  was yes but it also the battery also got [TS]

  bigger and so it was basically like [TS]

  roughly the same type of components that [TS]

  we've always known but bigger right and [TS]

  so it kind of made sense that that [TS]

  happened light wasn't a big surprise but [TS]

  it depends on how they're measuring it [TS]

  like if they're measuring by talktime [TS]

  tests a web browsing loop things like [TS]

  that they optimize for that and and they [TS]

  can design the phone to be really [TS]

  responsible in what they consider those [TS]

  typical uses but then if you do [TS]

  something on your phone that is not [TS]

  typically used so for instance that [TS]

  crazy new processor with the six cores [TS]

  that can now all be on at the same time [TS]

  if they want to if you're doing [TS]

  something that's processor intensive [TS]

  that's probably a pretty high power [TS]

  usage ceiling that the processor can [TS]

  have and while they're doing whatever [TS]

  they're doing with their battery tests [TS]

  they might be not setting it that way or [TS]

  not not using the processor in that way [TS]

  but if you do something that use it that [TS]

  way you're gonna have very different [TS]

  results similar like their tests [TS]

  probably have yeah they probably don't [TS]

  use GPS they probably don't use you know [TS]

  heavy cellular data or roaming or [TS]

  anything else like there's all sorts of [TS]

  things it can be different there and [TS]

  also just the the nature of how our [TS]

  usage from an OLED screen where now the [TS]

  screen can not only the screen use [TS]

  probably less power overall when it's on [TS]

  the screen uses a varying amount of [TS]

  power based on how brightly the pixels [TS]

  are lit up so if you have like black [TS]

  pixels that are effectively off with an [TS]

  OLED that's going to use less power than [TS]

  if you have white pixels that are lit up [TS]

  all the way that's different from the [TS]

  way LCDs have always worked so like the [TS]

  way the iPhone 10 will use its battery [TS]

  and the variation that you will have we [TS]

  don't really know the answer to that yet [TS]

  we're like we're not going to know that [TS]

  until we have a few months of using this [TS]

  to really get a feel for like how that [TS]

  battery behaves and the way Apple quotes [TS]

  the battery time I think is almost [TS]

  meaningless for how that will work in [TS]

  practice because this is these are all [TS]

  new components with all new profiles of [TS]

  how they use power that I don't think we [TS]

  can really say for sure how it's going [TS]

  to work I don't think it's meaningless [TS]

  and I think the OLED screen even [TS]

  it was 100% white all the time would [TS]

  tire beat in LCD like that's the point [TS]

  of oh it's the that's why it's on the [TS]

  watch it's lower power even if the stuff [TS]

  turned on that's my impression anyway so [TS]

  I'm like I said I'm not worried about [TS]

  battery life I mean if the batteries [TS]

  explode that's a problem but battery [TS]

  life wise even if it doesn't meet the [TS]

  extra two hours I feel like it will be [TS]

  better than the seven as long as it's [TS]

  better than the seven people will like [TS]

  it because you know it's like the fact [TS]

  you're replacing your phone with a [TS]

  battery that it's gone through several [TS]

  charge cycles so it's already kind of [TS]

  crappy with a new battery and the new [TS]

  battery gets more battery life I think I [TS]

  think it'll be fine I'm optimistic about [TS]

  battery life to go back a step to what [TS]

  marco was saying part of the thing that [TS]

  worries me about app support is that if [TS]

  nobody can get their hands on one of [TS]

  these in the first place I can know [TS]

  developers and get their hands on one of [TS]

  these it's like an exacerbation so [TS]

  there's that there's it's a two pronged [TS]

  issue one of them is that almost every [TS]

  iOS app like Marco was saying is [TS]

  designed for top based navigation you [TS]

  know your back buttons are at the top [TS]

  your create a new thing like a new [TS]

  message and messages or whatever is [TS]

  typically at the top all of that might [TS]

  need to shimmy down which is in many [TS]

  cases are really really deep and wide [TS]

  update like that's rethinking your [TS]

  entire apps architecture and on top of [TS]

  that if you don't have a real test [TS]

  device for months I mean we were just [TS]

  saying we're planning it with planning [TS]

  on waking up at 3 in the morning and we [TS]

  don't think that will necessarily get [TS]

  our phones until 2018 like that's gonna [TS]

  be a big darn problem I'm optimistic I [TS]

  hope that it'll work out just fine I [TS]

  hope that I'll get my iPhone a week from [TS]

  Friday but you know like III I feel like [TS]

  we're we're raining on everyone's parade [TS]

  and that's I don't think that's anyone's [TS]

  intention we're hopeful that it will [TS]

  work out for the best it's just there's [TS]

  a lot of signs you know the magic [TS]

  8-balls saying this is going to be an [TS]

  interesting rollout and it's gonna be an [TS]

  interesting first few months with it but [TS]

  let me tell you I'm still super amped [TS]

  and in March of 2018 when I finally get [TS]

  my phone I'm super amped to unlock it [TS]

  with just my face like I'm excited yeah [TS]

  and the other thing about about your [TS]

  developer thing too is like keep in mind [TS]

  like exacerbating the apps problem is [TS]

  that developers won't have these phones [TS]

  for a while as you said which means that [TS]

  there's immense pressure on us from [TS]

  users and from Apple to update our apps [TS]

  for the iPhone 10 like yesterday like to [TS]

  have this needs to be done now now now [TS]

  this is immense pressure on us to update [TS]

  our apps for a phone that will probably [TS]

  handle pretty differently than anything [TS]

  that we have used before that does that [TS]

  deserves significant redesign [TS]

  consideration that we have to design for [TS]

  without ever holding it and sure we can [TS]

  change it later but like the initial [TS]

  batch of updates for the iPhone 10 might [TS]

  not be good oh it's gonna be really hit [TS]

  or miss because almost all of them will [TS]

  have been designed and developed without [TS]

  any without that the designer and [TS]

  developer having access to one so it's [TS]

  all gonna be just it's gonna be like the [TS]

  very first wave of iPad and Apple watch [TS]

  designs when those came out is like [TS]

  really hit or miss because they were [TS]

  mostly developed in the simulator so [TS]

  somebody put out numbers the nikkei [TS]

  reporter so that was it a newspaper [TS]

  website I don't even know but anyway [TS]

  this is their speculation obviously not [TS]

  from Apple but they're saying 20 million [TS]

  iPhones between now and the end of the [TS]

  year and you're like oh that sounds like [TS]

  it's a lot right but last year between [TS]

  October and December Apple shipped [TS]

  almost 80 million so that's a factor of [TS]

  four if these if this guests estimate [TS]

  from you know these third-party people [TS]

  with knowledge of the supply chain bail [TS]

  bonds right but not like we're saying [TS]

  there's gonna be twenty percent fewer [TS]

  phones and last year whatever four times [TS]

  fewer and again maybe the i8 buyers are [TS]

  gonna help with that but I'm not sure [TS]

  they're gonna help Forex so I really [TS]

  hope I really hope these numbers aren't [TS]

  right because that is really grim yeah I [TS]

  hear that you know with the graph of [TS]

  like how bad is it going to be in terms [TS]

  of pre-order times I also hope that the [TS]

  number of people who are awake at 3:00 [TS]

  a.m. exactly hammering on their phones [TS]

  to try to order another phone is itself [TS]

  smaller still like that you're what [TS]

  you're really getting to are the people [TS]

  like this is the type of thing where I [TS]

  like where the people who are willing to [TS]

  do the ridiculous thing to lose sleep to [TS]

  set their alarm for to 55 to do all this [TS]

  stuff that there are there [TS]

  a small number of them the numbers get [TS]

  bigger the people who want to order the [TS]

  next morning and then bigger still for [TS]

  the people to the next day and so on and [TS]

  so forth so you can be you know if you [TS]

  if you want the best chance to get it as [TS]

  soon as possible then just do it we do [TS]

  and as many people point out and who [TS]

  have gone through this before [TS]

  very often the barrier is not your CDN [TS]

  updating in Marco's case where he [TS]

  doesn't even get to see the phone when [TS]

  his app until it's too late or Apple [TS]

  Store crapping out which happens but at [TS]

  various points during the purchase [TS]

  process depending on what you buy it may [TS]

  need to contact your carrier service and [TS]

  the carrier stock in the US so that's [TS]

  where your entire order process goes off [TS]

  the rails because their servers are [TS]

  unresponsive and while you're trying to [TS]

  get through that phase where it has to [TS]

  contact Verizon or whatever all the [TS]

  phones have been ordered and by the time [TS]

  you get through that now you're you know [TS]

  your ship date is February 21st and what [TS]

  can you do [TS]

  so that's not one of the strategies [TS]

  people suggested is by the one without a [TS]

  sim so you never have to kind of tack [TS]

  the carrier but I don't know like what [TS]

  chipset to Marco's point that thing is [TS]

  gonna use that does get around it the [TS]

  problem is that's exactly what people [TS]

  want to do when they're scalping them so [TS]

  Apple does not usually make the sim free [TS]

  version available for a high-demand [TS]

  phone on day one they usually wait a few [TS]

  weeks or months and then they make it [TS]

  available but then the people go to the [TS]

  t-mobile one you go to t-mobile is [TS]

  doesn't contact their site but then you [TS]

  get a different chip set that loses [TS]

  different radio bands and it's just it's [TS]

  all very fraught and confusing you know [TS]

  I don't know I've never done this before [TS]

  so I can't say but I'm not optimistic [TS]

  yeah I have a feeling that because what [TS]

  I'm trying to do is exactly what [TS]

  scalpers try to do I'm probably gonna [TS]

  have to just go to the stores a lot and [TS]

  just try to get lucky that way yeah [TS]

  you're using using the the senior [TS]

  citizen advantage which is like I'm home [TS]

  during the day suckers well you're all [TS]

  at work and I can just come there every [TS]

  day and go hey how you doing it's me [TS]

  again any handy phones well the good [TS]

  thing is I'm now getting allergy shots [TS]

  twice a week at a building next door to [TS]

  an Apple store twice a week what do you [TS]

  what are you curing yourself for [TS]

  allergies from allergies everything [TS]

  pollen everything [TS]

  darlin ragweed not dogs fortunately but [TS]

  cats you know [TS]

  but whose rabbit it's mostly the pollen [TS]

  in the ragweed which makes pretty bad [TS]

  seasonal allergies but no fortunately I [TS]

  have a hypoallergenic dog and he's [TS]

  wonderful and I could put my face in him [TS]

  and have no problems but if he was a [TS]

  rabbit I would have problems because [TS]

  rabbits are kind of like cats but [TS]

  they're constantly moving so they have a [TS]

  cloud of allergies around them [TS]

  constantly it's awful [TS]

  yeah so if I could show up early to an [TS]

  allergy shot like twice a week I can get [TS]

  to an Apple store like 8:00 in the [TS]

  morning maybe 9:00 in the morning and [TS]

  you know I'll see like I'm sure it's not [TS]

  gonna work [TS]

  during the first week or two but maybe [TS]

  during week three you know that's [TS]

  probably gonna work before my 3:00 a.m. [TS]

  order will be delivered yeah my iPhone 7 [TS]

  I seem to recall it was a it was an [TS]

  in-person wander by thing I wasn't a [TS]

  subaru either but it was the same deal [TS]

  that jet blacks were hard to get I [TS]

  didn't even bother trying to get early [TS]

  on and I think it did a lot of you know [TS]

  we're in the mall I stopped by the Apple [TS]

  Store and see what they've got I don't [TS]

  remember if that's where I bought or not [TS]

  but that is it that is a very good [TS]

  reason Apple stores do get shipments in [TS]

  like I don't know a weekly daily [TS]

  whenever they get them daily usually get [TS]

  them they get a small number but if you [TS]

  happen to be the person who wanders into [TS]

  the store when that small number appears [TS]

  you are like in a mini line that only [TS]

  consists of the people who happen to be [TS]

  in the Apple store at the moment the [TS]

  shipment comes in and that line is way [TS]

  surer than the line we're all gonna be [TS]

  in at 3:00 a.m. trying to get in a big [TS]

  giant queue with the entire world to get [TS]

  a phone shipped to us in February so [TS]

  it'll be it's not gonna be fun I wasn't [TS]

  able to be fun but no it's not gonna be [TS]

  fun it's gonna be a slog but we will [TS]

  eventually get this phone and you know [TS]

  what all of my concerns aside ultimately [TS]

  I am very excited to get this phone [TS]

  that's why we're all waiting for it [TS]

  because like if it's good which Apple [TS]

  you know for all their problems with [TS]

  Macs recently their record with iPhones [TS]

  is pretty solid like they usually don't [TS]

  have major issues sometimes they have [TS]

  minor issues they don't usually have [TS]

  major issues the likelihood that this is [TS]

  gonna be as described and gonna be good [TS]

  is pretty high [TS]

  and if that's true this is gonna be [TS]

  great because it'll finally be like the [TS]

  nice middle ground between the iPhone 7 [TS]

  and the iPhone plus that we've been [TS]

  waiting for for so long [TS]

  and and to have like you know the best [TS]

  cameras in the quote medium-sized phone [TS]

  you know that even though it's not quite [TS]

  but to have that would be great to have [TS]

  a bigger screen and the smaller body [TS]

  will be great like there are a lot of [TS]

  asterisks on this there's a lot of you [TS]

  know things were having to give up to [TS]

  get this but if it works out it's gonna [TS]

  be awesome [TS]

  so I am I'm tentatively optimistic I [TS]

  think it's probably gonna end up being [TS]

  great [TS]

  we're probably gonna look back all these [TS]

  worries and laugh at how ridiculous they [TS]

  were and I hope it turned out that way [TS]

  I hope so but I think I think what's [TS]

  gonna end up happening is I'll get my [TS]

  iPhone in December January and you will [TS]

  get yours in about a week by going to [TS]

  the store every single day yeah that's [TS]

  what I that's my wager we are sponsored [TS]

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  then they just disappear off the bottom [TS]

  of the feed and you pretty much never [TS]

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  the fracture printing process really [TS]

  makes the colors pop and the contrast it [TS]

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  which podcast you came from make sure I [TS]

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  the show thank you very much to fracture [TS]

  once again fracture slash podcast [TS]

  for beautiful photos printed directly on [TS]

  glass thank you very much the fracture [TS]

  for sponsoring our show so uh speaking [TS]

  of things that are that are positive [TS]

  yeah maybe [TS]

  apparently back many still thing and [TS]

  maybe here's the bad so do you have the [TS]

  Tim Cook statement handy doesn't matter [TS]

  can you read the statement just for the [TS]

  record I'm glad you love Mac Mini why is [TS]

  it never the Mac Mini [TS]

  that's a stereo everything I know it [TS]

  just and for context listeners this was [TS]

  a neat so somebody emailed Tim Cook [TS]

  asking about the future the Mac Mini and [TS]

  got this response that allegedly and [TS]

  then it was posted to my comers looming [TS]

  so what was going on so I'm glad you [TS]

  love Mac Mini we love it too our [TS]

  customers have found so many creative [TS]

  and interesting uses for Mac Mini well [TS]

  it is not the time to share any details [TS]

  we do plan for Mac Mini to be an [TS]

  important part of our product line going [TS]

  forward [TS]

  best Tim yeah so all the websites took [TS]

  this to mean Tim Cook confirms the Mac [TS]

  minis not dead that they're working on a [TS]

  new one [TS]

  when I read this I was less optimistic [TS]

  or at least I found this to be [TS]

  relatively content free almost all of [TS]

  the words that Tim wrote back allegedly [TS]

  don't mean anything [TS]

  our non-committal you know PR CEO speak [TS]

  BS and the few words that mean something [TS]

  were so vague and so non-committal that [TS]

  what he could mean is we're just gonna [TS]

  keep selling it like it is now like [TS]

  that's all he really said it's still [TS]

  thing in the line like when they gave [TS]

  that wonderful statement during the Mac [TS]

  Pro roundtable last spring where it was [TS]

  some lines of that Mac Mini remains a [TS]

  product in our lineup it was like one of [TS]

  the best things I've ever said like so [TS]

  this is this is about the same like I [TS]

  don't think this is saying anything [TS]

  about future updates like I think your [TS]

  bet you're bending yourself into [TS]

  pretzels to try to make it this seem [TS]

  like the same it's not the same they [TS]

  said they said you know not time did not [TS]

  time to share any details if it was [TS]

  gonna be the same there's no details to [TS]

  share not that there's much information [TS]

  abut the one piece of information is is [TS]

  an official confirmation from the CEO of [TS]

  Apple that they plan to share some [TS]

  details related to the Mac Mini in the [TS]

  future which means as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned like if this was the Mac Pro [TS]

  what we'd be saying is this is [TS]

  confirmation the Mac Pro is not dead [TS]

  right they might as well have said we're [TS]

  gonna come out with a new thing that [TS]

  people who like to make them anyway he [TS]

  didn't even say it was gonna be a new [TS]

  Mac maybe who knows but discuss that [TS]

  right but but the whole point is that [TS]

  like the they like there's not like [TS]

  there's not gonna fade away like we're [TS]

  not making the Mac Mini any more so [TS]

  we're gonna sell this one until it [TS]

  becomes really embarrassing then we'll [TS]

  stop like they're planning on doing with [TS]

  the Mac Pro sell it and pick it until it [TS]

  becomes embarrassing and then just let [TS]

  it fade away and replace it with the [TS]

  iMac Pro or whatever right that was the [TS]

  plan for the Mac Pro until I turned [TS]

  around this email does not have much [TS]

  content but the one bit of information [TS]

  it has is does the Mac Mini have future [TS]

  yes no answer yes ish like again they [TS]

  don't say math committee but the person [TS]

  was asking about the Mac Mini and his [TS]

  answer is just wait we'll have something [TS]

  and so I think at least Tim believes if [TS]

  the person who likes the Mac Mini will [TS]

  be interested in this future thing so [TS]

  it's got to be something Mac Mini ish [TS]

  and that's not a lot of information like [TS]

  what do you expect like it's not gonna [TS]

  tell you a date and yes we're gonna have [TS]

  the Mac Mini or yes we're gonna replace [TS]

  it like whatever but it's more than we [TS]

  had before [TS]

  it's from the horse's mouth and so I [TS]

  take that if I was a big fan of the Mac [TS]

  Mini I would be excited now to know that [TS]

  that computer line is not 100% dead [TS]

  there's two parts of Tim's wording here [TS]

  that actually mean anything at all Wow [TS]

  does not time to share any detail [TS]

  this implies there will be a time in the [TS]

  future where something is shared so not [TS]

  a time in the past space is another time [TS]

  machine it will have to be a time in the [TS]

  future and he will share details details [TS]

  about what it's details that this person [TS]

  who sent this email apparently would be [TS]

  interested in this person wants a Mac [TS]

  Mini right so well so what that Clause [TS]

  means is there may come a time in the [TS]

  future where there's something to share [TS]

  the only other part of this that says [TS]

  anything is important we tube we do plan [TS]

  for the Mac Mini to be an important part [TS]

  of our product line going forward but [TS]

  the problem with that when a CEO says [TS]

  important it's like when it's like your [TS]

  call is important to us like that is [TS]

  complete BS they do not mean it they're [TS]

  saying that to please you that doesn't [TS]

  mean anything when you remove the BS [TS]

  speak from this all it really says is we [TS]

  plan for the Mac Mini to be part of our [TS]

  product line go in the future going [TS]

  forward like that's it that's all it [TS]

  says yeah but but like I said don't have [TS]

  any share right now we will have [TS]

  something to share later and if the [TS]

  product doesn't change there's nothing [TS]

  to share if there's something to share [TS]

  that means there's news that means [TS]

  there's news that Mac many owners want [TS]

  any obvious news is there's gonna be a [TS]

  man you make money Wow [TS]

  so basically I think part one of my [TS]

  skepticism on this is I don't think this [TS]

  email says anything real I think this is [TS]

  a hundred percent fluff and nothing [TS]

  there's no meat to it [TS]

  I completely agree 100% it's the one [TS]

  it's one percent a promise that the Mac [TS]

  Mini is not dead as a line yeah but [TS]

  we've hear Tim Cook you're not gonna [TS]

  make that declaration in an email to [TS]

  some Rando you're gonna make it yeah [TS]

  sure you know like I think that is the [TS]

  minimum the minimum amount that you get [TS]

  there's nothing else he can say that he [TS]

  can't just say what Phil said but it [TS]

  remains a product in our lineup because [TS]

  that would be taken like if you're [TS]

  answering at all if you answer with that [TS]

  that's taken as a confirmation that it's [TS]

  dead because if he can't bring himself [TS]

  to say his you know patented Tim Cook [TS]

  just stay tuned we're really excited [TS]

  about blah blah blah future blah blah [TS]

  blah nothing to share today like he does [TS]

  that all the time that's his little [TS]

  stick if he can't bring himself to say [TS]

  that and he actually replies and says [TS]

  remains a product than our lineup that [TS]

  means it's dead so he has to either not [TS]

  reply which would be the smart thing to [TS]

  do or reply and say no we're gonna it's [TS]

  not dead [TS]

  we're gonna do a thing and he gives his [TS]

  little answer about you know nothing to [TS]

  share today that means there'll be [TS]

  something to share like that and that is [TS]

  you know you could say 90% BS and 90% [TS]

  content free but that one little nugget [TS]

  like I said if I was a Big Mac Mini fan [TS]

  that would make me very excited because [TS]

  I feel like it was unambiguous [TS]

  unambiguous that Tim Cook thinks in the [TS]

  same way by the way that they would have [TS]

  said we have you know Mac Pro users we [TS]

  have something you'll be excited about [TS]

  and they meant the iMac Pro and so you [TS]

  can still be disappointed but like oh I [TS]

  was hoping they would you know keep the [TS]

  Mac Pro but it turns out the thing they [TS]

  thought we would be excited about is the [TS]

  iMac Pro and kind of be excited about it [TS]

  but it would still be not as good as a [TS]

  real Mac Pro right so there's still room [TS]

  for Mac Mini owners to be disappointed [TS]

  but that's that you know that's their [TS]

  lot in life right isn't it yeah it's [TS]

  always been a disappointing part okay so [TS]

  anyway I think I think it's not that bad [TS]

  part one of my disappointment with this [TS]

  was you know Tim's fluffy language when [TS]

  when Tim says things because interviews [TS]

  I don't even watch them or care because [TS]

  there's so little content really he's so [TS]

  guarded he's so careful that you see no [TS]

  personality you get no real ideas of [TS]

  anything so I don't anyway so I wouldn't [TS]

  put anything into his words the other [TS]

  thing to worry about is do we want [TS]

  today's Apple redesigning the Mac Mini [TS]

  like when they last did it in 2014 [TS]

  yeah when in 2014 they basically took a [TS]

  2012 model and made it worse what would [TS]

  they do if today's Apple redesigned the [TS]

  Mac Mini because what everyone wants is [TS]

  one thing what everyone wants is yeah [TS]

  maybe bring back the quad-core option [TS]

  that used to have maybe bring back the [TS]

  user replaceable upgradable hard drive [TS]

  and socketed RAM like things like that [TS]

  would be great because this is a machine [TS]

  that appeals to low-end and budget [TS]

  conscious buyers more than their other [TS]

  machines so like that matters like the [TS]

  upgrade ability and repair ability over [TS]

  time that matters more on this machine [TS]

  than on probably and any of their other [TS]

  machines and they made it worse [TS]

  substantially in the 2012 update so like [TS]

  Pete when people say when an updated Mac [TS]

  Mini I think number one what they want [TS]

  is upgraded components that would be [TS]

  nice to have like you know modern and [TS]

  processor than everything but I think [TS]

  they're also thinking of some kind of [TS]

  redesign and everyone [TS]

  their idea of what they wanted to be [TS]

  like mackaninee users use them as their [TS]

  primary computers generally want [TS]

  upgradability Apple commentators like [TS]

  there was great a great segment an [TS]

  upgrade this week and we're Jason still [TS]

  argues that it should be more like the [TS]

  Intel nook the NUC however that's [TS]

  pronounced where it's like the size of [TS]

  an Apple TV so it's like you know take [TS]

  the Mac Mini and make it even smaller [TS]

  make it had even less components and [TS]

  upgradability it even fewer ports you [TS]

  know things of that I also don't think [TS]

  Mac many owners are looking for that but [TS]

  I think if Apple did redesign the Mac [TS]

  Mini today it would be more like that it [TS]

  would be like let's make it even smaller [TS]

  let's give it all USB seaports you know [TS]

  like take away all the usefulness of it [TS]

  keep the same high price maybe even [TS]

  increase the price of it with today's [TS]

  Apple and now you have less [TS]

  upgradability than even before in the [TS]

  2012 in the 2014 revision like do you [TS]

  think today's Apple would actually issue [TS]

  an update to the Mac Mini that Mac many [TS]

  buyers would be happy with I think it's [TS]

  very unlikely I think you're kind of [TS]

  dancing around this article that you [TS]

  haven't read in the show notes which is [TS]

  by ricardo mori who who offers three he [TS]

  categorized three possibilities for the [TS]

  future of the Mac Mini or things that [TS]

  many people might like and you already [TS]

  covered two of them but just to cover [TS]

  was the link in the show notes to read [TS]

  this article which is longer the first [TS]

  option is it's the same Mac minis you [TS]

  see today but it has upgraded internals [TS]

  which is like the minimum they could do [TS]

  write better CPUs GPUs faster SSD like [TS]

  you all the things you expect do you [TS]

  know USB C ports on the back but like [TS]

  but otherwise it's the same and probably [TS]

  a price bump because why not right [TS]

  second option is the Apple TV sighs Mac [TS]

  Mini right it's it's smaller it's you [TS]

  know like as lower power stuff in there [TS]

  in both senses but it's like the size of [TS]

  a hockey puck so a whole new realm of [TS]

  things becomes possible like the Intel [TS]

  nook like the Apple TV you know that's [TS]

  the second option and the third option [TS]

  which you didn't mention because you [TS]

  know I think this is probably the least [TS]

  likely is that it's basically the X Mac [TS]

  or the poor man's Mac Pro it is a small [TS]

  modular computer but that it goes like [TS]

  upmarket in terms of power like what if [TS]

  you don't [TS]

  I'm AK possesses you don't want to [TS]

  screen but you also don't want a [TS]

  bazillion dollar Mac Pro you want a [TS]

  desktop Mac that is nevertheless [TS]

  configurable and you can put some [TS]

  powerful stuff in it and then you don't [TS]

  have to say it's upgradable maybe it's [TS]

  not upgradable at all maybe this is [TS]

  totally you know but but it is like [TS]

  faster like it's actually got some fast [TS]

  processes and a fast it's like a little [TS]

  mini speed demo again this is the least [TS]

  option all of these are small computers [TS]

  they're small computers that do not have [TS]

  a screen it's not a laptop but they're [TS]

  like it's like three sizes you know you [TS]

  got the the current size which i think [TS]

  is actually kind of gross like you know [TS]

  flat and wide I kind of not that I like [TS]

  the taller skinnier one but I don't like [TS]

  things to get wider or like I think that [TS]

  limits useless but anyway you got that [TS]

  form factor you've got the hockey puck [TS]

  and that presumably the DX Mac or the [TS]

  poor man's Mac Pro would be bigger still [TS]

  than the current one and these three [TS]

  options are not equally likely you know [TS]

  like you said about the puck like who [TS]

  really wants that and it's extremely [TS]

  limiting the the X macro poor minds Mac [TS]

  Pro is just not gonna happen like give [TS]

  up you know that's why the X Mac will [TS]

  never you know that's something that [TS]

  enthusiasts want they don't want and so [TS]

  that leaves the first one where it is a [TS]

  new Mac Mini with updated internals and [TS]

  maybe it changes size in some small way [TS]

  because they can make it smaller now but [TS]

  it's not hockey puck sighs you know like [TS]

  and I guess there's you know fourth [TS]

  option or whatever that it's just [TS]

  something entirely crazy like that's by [TS]

  the way the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro [TS]

  both seem to induce this in people where [TS]

  they start to get the idea like what if [TS]

  it was like a bunch of Mac minis you [TS]

  could combine them and they would [TS]

  combine forces like Voltron and you know [TS]

  use some sort of magic technology to [TS]

  distribute computing across them and if [TS]

  you just added more Mac minis that would [TS]

  get fast there and all sorts of fantasy [TS]

  scenarios that are like this is not this [TS]

  is not the 90s this is not at the Apple [TS]

  that made a duo doc like that's not [TS]

  going to happen this is not their [TS]

  important product you could technically [TS]

  do some of these things but you know not [TS]

  the Mac Mini it gets is the least [TS]

  investment of any Mac so you should just [TS]

  hope that they updated that the price is [TS]

  not too obscene and that is good to go [TS]

  for another three years I think that's [TS]

  the best you can hope for and I think [TS]

  that's what's going to happen yeah I [TS]

  think it's it's [TS]

  kind of sad though that we the option [TS]

  that we think is the most likely is also [TS]

  probably what the fewest Mac many [TS]

  customers are asking for or want yeah [TS]

  think so I do I mean like so you know [TS]

  the OP the most likely one obviously is [TS]

  the one where they make it even smaller [TS]

  and remove even more from oh no no I [TS]

  think the most likely one is they just [TS]

  update the internals they could still [TS]

  make it smaller but it's not gonna be [TS]

  puck I don't think the puck is the most [TS]

  likely one at all I think it's like it's [TS]

  still it's still a silver box it just [TS]

  has different ports in different [TS]

  internals that I think that's the most [TS]

  likely that so based on what what modern [TS]

  Apple would do and what modern Apple [TS]

  would you know should do I think making [TS]

  it better making it more more powerful [TS]

  more expandable more upgradable that's [TS]

  not going to happen [TS]

  I think the best we can hope for is that [TS]

  they keep it the same and just update [TS]

  the guts so and it's it's really telling [TS]

  to consider that is that's what we're [TS]

  hoping for here is like please Apple [TS]

  don't touch it too much like please like [TS]

  touch it a little bit like give us [TS]

  upgrade of great opponents but like I [TS]

  feel like you know going back to going [TS]

  back to my argument I think last show or [TS]

  the one before about about Apple lacking [TS]

  confidence in its design it seems like [TS]

  Apple refuses to update a product where [TS]

  it's just a speck bump a lot of the time [TS]

  you know the Mac Pro famously was never [TS]

  updated after it was released the [TS]

  laptops before that had had wide long [TS]

  spans or like they could have upgraded [TS]

  CPUs but they didn't the Mac Mini is is [TS]

  the clearest example yet of that now and [TS]

  the current lineup because I'd consider [TS]

  the Mac Pro not in the current lineup [TS]

  even though it's definitely for sale [TS]

  anyway III think Apple needs to get over [TS]

  this this insecurity or this roadblock [TS]

  they have in their head that every [TS]

  update has to be some kind of new [TS]

  external design or mind blowing thing [TS]

  because that is important for some of [TS]

  their products I'd say you know the [TS]

  iPhone is the biggest example where like [TS]

  you know the market really values that [TS]

  but there are a lot of products they [TS]

  sell where the market doesn't really [TS]

  care about that so much and if the [TS]

  alternative to having a fancy new [TS]

  external design on a regular basis is [TS]

  never getting an update of any kind [TS]

  then you know Apple needs to really [TS]

  really consider what that says about [TS]

  them and what kind of computer company [TS]

  they want to be if they still want to be [TS]

  a computer company please for the love [TS]

  of God please I mean jeez it's a valid [TS]

  question these days but like it is [TS]

  totally fine for the Mac Mini to get [TS]

  updates where the external design does [TS]

  not change like the market like an apple [TS]

  should be confident enough to be able to [TS]

  update it without without saying well we [TS]

  can't do anything big so we should just [TS]

  wait until we can cuz that's not that's [TS]

  not how computers work like that's not [TS]

  how people buy computers that's not how [TS]

  it's not what anybody wants didn't they [TS]

  just do two updates so the Mac Mini like [TS]

  that though the last two updates have [TS]

  been form-factor doesn't change [TS]

  internals get quote unquote better [TS]

  the first 2012 one is they didn't get [TS]

  better so like I feel like the Mac Mini [TS]

  if only because they don't want to spend [TS]

  the money to design and do new tooling [TS]

  for a new thing and to be clear I think [TS]

  it is entirely possible the Mac Mini [TS]

  will get smaller I'm just saying it's [TS]

  not gonna become something the size of [TS]

  the Apple TV like not gonna become super [TS]

  duper small because to do that you would [TS]

  have to you'd have to really cut the [TS]

  power on it like it would have to get [TS]

  way slower than it is you can't all [TS]

  right maybe it wouldn't maybe we could [TS]

  say the same speed as the [TS]

  three-year-olds computer but the whole [TS]

  point is people want a bump because they [TS]

  want a Mac Mini that is more capable [TS]

  than the current one and if you just say [TS]

  ok well how about if it's the same speed [TS]

  it's the size of a hockey puck I think [TS]

  they can make it smaller maybe not make [TS]

  it so darn wide and have a smaller case [TS]

  but it should be faster than the current [TS]

  if they introduced a new Mac Mini that [TS]

  is not faster than the old one that is [TS]

  definitely not what anybody wants [TS]

  they already did it once yeah I know I [TS]

  know that was the core account thing and [TS]

  then nobody liked that update and stuff [TS]

  but but the one after that actually did [TS]

  get faster you know like no no I have [TS]

  that one I have the one that got slower [TS]

  2012 wasn't the one where they cut the [TS]

  four core option 2012 was was the good [TS]

  one they killed the four core option in [TS]

  the current lineup which is a 2014 yeah [TS]

  all right well anyway I that's what [TS]

  people want because why are you not [TS]

  satisfied with the current Mac Mini it's [TS]

  super expensive and what you get for [TS]

  that money doesn't run Mac OS that well [TS]

  because it's old and slow so give me a [TS]

  new Mac Mini and if we say new Mac Mini [TS]

  same [TS]

  penis your old one but size of a hockey [TS]

  puck you like that's not what I wanted [TS]

  okay it's not that doesn't help me I [TS]

  would just like I would just keep using [TS]

  this one so I agree that it will not be [TS]

  an ex macit but I think it's also not [TS]

  going to be a puck I think it will be [TS]

  Mac Mini either the same size as the [TS]

  current case are smaller but not puck [TS]

  size and it has to be has to be faster [TS]

  how could it not be faster just [TS]

  three-year-old guts in there probably [TS]

  old if it has to be faster so Tim Cook [TS]

  didn't say that in his email but maybe [TS]

  I'll email him later and say hey hey Tim [TS]

  faster right he'll send me one replies [TS]

  his yes yeah no no you kidding [TS]

  he can't say one word he'll give you [TS]

  three sentence doesn't say nothing it is [TS]

  also worth looking back at what the role [TS]

  the Mac Mini was supposed to be in the [TS]

  first place when it was a first launched [TS]

  what about 12 years ago something like [TS]

  that what was the role back then at the [TS]

  time it was it was basically the Mac for [TS]

  new switchers to the Mac platform and it [TS]

  was a way that you know if the rest of [TS]

  the Macs were too expensive [TS]

  for your for your budget or for your [TS]

  needs then here's a way if you get a Mac [TS]

  for less money you supply your own you [TS]

  know whatever display and keyboard and [TS]

  mouse you already have or you can get [TS]

  cheaply from other people you bring that [TS]

  will give you the box and and that can [TS]

  be your Mac for a lot less money than [TS]

  our big towers or our laptops I think if [TS]

  modern Apple still viewed the Mac as a [TS]

  business that had potential growth in it [TS]

  which is a big question mark I think [TS]

  which is unfortunate because I think [TS]

  there's tons of growth to be had because [TS]

  for all the you know press narrative [TS]

  that phones and everything are killing [TS]

  computers we all keep using computers [TS]

  and we all keep buying them and you know [TS]

  while the PC market on the whole is not [TS]

  growing very well anymore and it's okay [TS]

  this is not growing at all anymore Apple [TS]

  doesn't have a very big share of it and [TS]

  their share can grow so there's tons of [TS]

  growth to be had if they wanted it but I [TS]

  think it's worth revisiting that [TS]

  original purpose of the Mac Mini which [TS]

  is to attract new people to the Mac [TS]

  platform who otherwise won't or can't [TS]

  buy the other options and if Apple [TS]

  really wanted to do that you know I [TS]

  think they've always had this tension [TS]

  with the Mac Mini that they probably [TS]

  don't want to cannibalize sales of the [TS]

  max because one thing you know one thing [TS]

  that people don't talk about in the [TS]

  Apple comment o sphere is that when you [TS]

  look at what Apple actually sells the [TS]

  volumes they actually sell the computers [TS]

  they sell ridiculously high volumes in [TS]

  are the lowest and cheapest [TS]

  configurations of each type of product [TS]

  they sell a ton of the cheapest iMac and [TS]

  the cheapest MacBook and it would which [TS]

  for a while has been the MacBook Air [TS]

  before that it was the the MD 101 like [TS]

  that the famous non-written 13-inch [TS]

  MacBook Pro Apple sells massive [TS]

  quantities of those to businesses [TS]

  schools things like that and so they [TS]

  have to make sure that whatever is the [TS]

  cheapest thing in a category that it is [TS]

  both okay for Apple that they sell a lot [TS]

  of those instead of anything else and [TS]

  that it is a reasonable computer [TS]

  I think they clearly want people to buy [TS]

  the I D low-end IMAX and not the low-end [TS]

  Mac minis as the cheap desktop the [TS]

  reality though is that laptops outsell [TS]

  desktops so much these days that was not [TS]

  as true back when they first launched [TS]

  the Mac many laptops are now the [TS]

  computers that almost everybody wants so [TS]

  if your guys still have a desktop whose [TS]

  sole purpose is to sweep up the rest of [TS]

  the edges of the market you know as [TS]

  Jason Snell said this week an upgrade [TS]

  like it's kind of like the catch-all [TS]

  it's like it catches a lot of edge case [TS]

  needs that is some other that other [TS]

  Mac's might be impractical or unusable [TS]

  for let people run server farms on Mac [TS]

  minis like it's quickly there's so many [TS]

  cool uses that you have you know home [TS]

  server so like that headless things [TS]

  cheap things portable things that [TS]

  there's so many things you can do the [TS]

  Mac Mini where an iMac would be [TS]

  impractical or just not really work for [TS]

  that purpose or a laptop wouldn't really [TS]

  work you know so the Mac Mini is an [TS]

  important part of the line of where it's [TS]

  actually truly the question I think is [TS]

  is it worth expanding what that means [TS]

  now because in today's environment which [TS]

  is very different from when the Mac Mini [TS]

  was first conceived and introduced [TS]

  if they actually had a compelling [TS]

  inexpensive little desktop thing that [TS]

  you could put a standard two-and-a-half [TS]

  inch hard drive in if you wanted to for [TS]

  expansion or things like that like [TS]

  things that would make it appeal more to [TS]

  low end and and customized buyers they [TS]

  could I think really increase the appeal [TS]

  of Mac OS for a certain category of [TS]

  people without I don't think really [TS]

  cannibalizing meaningful portions of Mac [TS]

  sales because if they introduced a [TS]

  desktop that cannibalize the sales of [TS]

  the lowest end cheapest iMac I don't [TS]

  think that's a big problem for them [TS]

  especially as the Mac Mini it's still [TS]

  not gonna be that cheap like it's still [TS]

  not gonna be a great value because it [TS]

  never has been so from that angle I [TS]

  think it's okay and the reality is most [TS]

  low-end buyers these is by laptops [TS]

  anyway so I don't think they have to [TS]

  worry so much about low-end [TS]

  cannibalization anymore that as they [TS]

  used to and so what this product could [TS]

  instead do is be a market expander [TS]

  basically expand the market the market [TS]

  share of Mac OS of people using real [TS]

  Mac's instead of hacking Tasha's who [TS]

  want their own desktop who don't want to [TS]

  pay iMac prices who want to put like 2 [TS]

  terabytes in it with a standard Drive in [TS]

  some way like things like that like this [TS]

  could be a market expander for them in a [TS]

  way that would detract from their core [TS]

  proper markets almost not at all if they [TS]

  wanted it to be but I don't it doesn't [TS]

  seem like Apple views the Mac as a [TS]

  growth market anymore but I think that's [TS]

  totally wrong I feel like you're getting [TS]

  a dex max territory when you keep [TS]

  talking about the idea that it's gonna [TS]

  have a 2.5 inch base somewhere in this [TS]

  computer like it did until 2012 2014 [TS]

  that seems very unlikely they love the [TS]

  PCI base and now you can still there is [TS]

  still space in the case design for one [TS]

  and you can I think you can still one of [TS]

  them with Fusion drives so like you [TS]

  could have a stick and a bay in there [TS]

  yeah but if you didn't order it with a [TS]

  fusion drive then the hardware to mount [TS]

  the drive isn't there like so mine is [TS]

  SSD only and I wanted to expand it [TS]

  because it's only 256 [TS]

  and I can't like I just can't there's no [TS]

  hardware in there to support anything so [TS]

  I have to do external stuff I want to [TS]

  expand it so we don't Apple hasn't [TS]

  broken out I've had many sales and [TS]

  forever if they ever did so we don't [TS]

  really know what the numbers are but I [TS]

  bet they're super small and what you're [TS]

  describing would be a cool thing but I [TS]

  think it falls under the same category [TS]

  is the Mac Pro isn't they would have had [TS]

  to have a special announcement of that [TS]

  like it's getting index Mac territory [TS]

  we're saying we're gonna reimagine the [TS]

  Mac Mini and it is gonna fulfill a [TS]

  different role and that role is exactly [TS]

  what you just described Margot and but [TS]

  it would have to be a very different [TS]

  product it would have to basically be a [TS]

  miniature Mac Pro designed to be modular [TS]

  and configurable to be able to spec it [TS]

  up and down to get a really cheap [TS]

  low-end one but also really fast [TS]

  high-end one in a similar form factor [TS]

  and be upgradable and fulfil all those [TS]

  roles that you've just described for a [TS]

  different kind of person like because [TS]

  the iMac would be the I don't want to [TS]

  worry about it I don't want how many [TS]

  boxes or cables it's all in one so I'll [TS]

  get the low-end iMac right and I just [TS]

  it's all in one box and I get a nice [TS]

  screen and a nice computer and it's all [TS]

  there and then the other end is I want a [TS]

  computer that is configurable and [TS]

  upgradable and potentially can be [TS]

  cheaper than the iMac I've already have [TS]

  a monitor but also could be more [TS]

  expensive if I want to crank it up and [TS]

  try to get something faster and that's [TS]

  into like smacks territory but so far we [TS]

  don't know anything about this but it's [TS]

  still those are still seen it's just [TS]

  much more likely that it will continue [TS]

  to be what it is which is like the [TS]

  cheapest way to get into a Mac as long [TS]

  as you don't need to look at a screen [TS]

  right like you already have a screen at [TS]

  the keyboard in the mouse you can [TS]

  probably spec a Mac Mini so that is [TS]

  cheaper than Apple's cheapest laptop [TS]

  which may not be true for much longer [TS]

  given how the Mac Mini prices keep going [TS]

  up and that Apple continues to keep [TS]

  around low-end cheap laptops like what [TS]

  is the you know the 13-inch [TS]

  air with a terrible screen is that below [TS]

  $900 yet it's around there yeah so yeah [TS]

  it would be nice of that trend reverse [TS]

  and you can actually get a cheaper Mac [TS]

  Mini but um I'm not really into the Mac [TS]

  Mini but I feel for people who use them [TS]

  in various roles and it's one of those [TS]

  products where it probably doesn't make [TS]

  them money like they probably don't sell [TS]

  enough of them to recoup the cost of [TS]

  Altmann of the new case that they're [TS]

  gonna design if they do design a new [TS]

  case or whatever but it keeps enough of [TS]

  the of the right people happy the people [TS]

  who are enthusiasts who will spread the [TS]

  word of Apple and be satisfied to be in [TS]

  an all Apple ecosystem because they can [TS]

  make their music server be a Mac Mini or [TS]

  they can use it in some little situation [TS]

  that tickles their nerd hearts right [TS]

  like just there is value in that beyond [TS]

  the value of how much money did we make [TS]

  on selling them because I really think [TS]

  they sell very very very very very few [TS]

  Mac minis and like the Mac Pro it's kind [TS]

  of a self-fulfilling prophecy we don't [TS]

  update for three years and increase the [TS]

  price and make it slower yadda yadda [TS]

  yadda but I'm personally less angry [TS]

  about it so I'm I'm just willing to be [TS]

  patient here but like I said I'm excited [TS]

  there's gonna be details that will be [TS]

  shared in the future like I still am [TS]

  very skeptical that's anything I I think [TS]

  the problem with the Mac Mini is that it [TS]

  it tries to be as three different [TS]

  computers at once right there or at [TS]

  least two I know a lot of people that [TS]

  love to have them as a entertainment [TS]

  computer and I know that with the Apple [TS]

  TV and other boxes like it that's less [TS]

  important now but I know people that you [TS]

  know have a Mac Mini connected to a TV [TS]

  and that's that's how they prefer to [TS]

  manage their media so that's one kind of [TS]

  Mac Mini another kind of Mac Mini is the [TS]

  sort that Marco I think uses wherein [TS]

  it's just a very very cheap in-home Mac [TS]

  based server and that's also oftentimes [TS]

  used at development shops like mine we [TS]

  for a long time used two Mac Mini as a [TS]

  continuous integration platform which is [TS]

  something that Marco does not understand [TS]

  then there's also parking yeah well put [TS]

  it the parking lot a Strummer for all [TS]

  about it tomorrow morning [TS]

  yeah that sounds that sounds perfect and [TS]

  then finally there's the one that it [TS]

  sounds like Marco's most interested in [TS]

  unsurprisingly which is the cheap but [TS]

  expandable and flexible Mac something [TS]

  that's kind of sort of like the MacBook [TS]

  Air that John had just brought up but [TS]

  desktop II you know where you can expand [TS]

  it potentially and you can bring your [TS]

  own keyboard and mouse [TS]

  and in monitor and so on and so forth [TS]

  and I think the problem is is that no [TS]

  matter what Apple does shy of making [TS]

  three different machines there will be [TS]

  one or more groups that will be [TS]

  displeased by the results and I don't [TS]

  envy them in that regard and yes to a [TS]

  large degree this is a self-created [TS]

  problem just like John said and Marco [TS]

  said about how you know well yeah you [TS]

  didn't update it for three years and the [TS]

  updates you did before that were crap so [TS]

  this is this is this is the bed they've [TS]

  chosen to sleep in but it's a crummy [TS]

  situation and I don't know how to dig [TS]

  yourself out of it out of outside of [TS]

  making a few different machines it's not [TS]

  gonna matter though because our iPhone [TS]

  tens will be quicker anyway yeah Gary [TS]

  100% guaranteed unless they did the X [TS]

  Mac which they're not all right thanks [TS]

  for sponsors this week Squarespace [TS]

  fracture and aftershocks and we will see [TS]

  you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental accidental John [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at ADP you can follow them CAS II [TS]

  WA L is s so that's Casey list and a are [TS]

  Co AR m and T Marco Arment SI r AC [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  sound of Italian power that's not what [TS]

  that is I don't know I don't know what [TS]

  your BMW sounds like plus Thibodaux he's [TS]

  in the shop I don't think you want to [TS]

  rev it like that block the valvetrain [TS]

  again that is true [TS]

  sounds like some kind of dinosaurs [TS]

  exploding in sequence and possibly eight [TS]

  sequences it's not eight sequences it is [TS]

  it is six sequences three six on that [TS]

  Julia hmm it is a v6 in the Julia and [TS]

  that is what you just heard I recorded [TS]

  that last night sounds good [TS]

  so my alpha has arrived I am back to [TS]

  being a car journalist ladies and [TS]

  gentlemen and I am excited [TS]

  wait did you like glue a camera to the [TS]

  back here car how'd you get this it's a [TS]

  GoPro oh okay with a suction cup you're [TS]

  a vlogger now I know right work has a [TS]

  GoPro what is this thing it is a Hero 3 [TS]

  plus and anyway and and I bought an [TS]

  literally an $8 suction cup mount you [TS]

  know quick aside this is not why I'm [TS]

  bringing all this up I had never really [TS]

  used a GoPro before this thing is [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  like everyone including I think the [TS]

  three of us and I very much include [TS]

  myself on this one the we had said oh [TS]

  you know the GoPros going out of [TS]

  business because maybe we never talked [TS]

  about this but I feel like we did GoPros [TS]

  going out of business because that's why [TS]

  you have an iPhone and they're like [TS]

  waterproof now and you're good to go and [TS]

  and yeah we didn't all say that yeah [TS]

  well yeah but I don't trust my own lack [TS]

  of memory anyway the point is is that [TS]

  I've heard somebody say that that the [TS]

  GoPro that GoPro is going out of [TS]

  business and I have no idea what their [TS]

  financials look like but this thing is [TS]

  so damn flexible not in a physical sense [TS]

  but it is so damn flexible and so good [TS]

  that I if you do any sort of videography [TS]

  that involves any sort of motion and [TS]

  putting things in odd places that sounds [TS]

  bad but go with it here this is a [TS]

  tremendous device and I am so glad I was [TS]

  able to borrow [TS]

  from work so yeah so I suction-cupped a [TS]

  GoPro to the back of the Alfa Romeo as I [TS]

  was going through a parking garage sort [TS]

  of near my house don't be creepy and and [TS]

  so I got delivered to me an Alfa Romeo [TS]

  Giulia [TS]

  let me try this I'm sorry Federico who [TS]

  probably doesn't even listen the show he [TS]

  actually recorded for me a clip I should [TS]

  send it to Marco so he could dub it in [TS]

  he recorded for me a clip of him [TS]

  pronouncing it at my request and I'm [TS]

  gonna butcher it but anyway it's a [TS]

  Quadrifoglio Julia Quadrifoglio it's the [TS]

  high speed a twin-turbo v6 version of [TS]

  the Alfa Romeo Giulia and it is on [TS]

  believable [TS]

  holy SH is this nice car it's take your [TS]

  m take your take your Tesla but make it [TS]

  much more possible and make it sound [TS]

  like sex and that is basically what this [TS]

  is or perhaps take your m5 and make it [TS]

  lose fifteen thousand pounds because by [TS]

  comparing I loved your m5 don't get me [TS]

  wrong but the this thing feels like it's [TS]

  1/10 the car that the m5 was and oh my [TS]

  word it's amazing I'm a little concerned [TS]

  about your opinion of the sound of [TS]

  certain things but this does sound [TS]

  really good I think it looks good John [TS]

  doesn't agree that it looks good but I [TS]

  think it looks good [TS]

  oh it does not look good and if you [TS]

  don't want to stick of course that's the [TS]

  sticking point I guess that's our first [TS]

  question it's like how is the automatic [TS]

  transmission in this wonderful sex car [TS]

  so the automatic is an odd thing this [TS]

  has the ZF 8-speed that BMW uses that [TS]

  the Challenger Hellcat uses it's the [TS]

  same ZF 8-speed that's used in anything [TS]

  that wants to go fast but only have two [TS]

  pedals and doesn't want to be a DCT and [TS]

  I still want a stick but damn if this [TS]

  isn't a decent set a substitute [TS]

  and the biggest problem I had with this [TS]

  car is that and to be clear in case you [TS]

  haven't been following along this is [TS]

  this is my alpha only for a week and [TS]

  then it goes back to Alfre May oh it's a [TS]

  press car that was arranged by friends [TS]

  of the show at the wheel bearings [TS]

  podcast which we've linked to before and [TS]

  a link to again imagine imagine our show [TS]

  neutral but by people who actually know [TS]

  what they're talking about and that's [TS]

  wheel bearing so anyway so I've spent $0 [TS]

  on this car I've already gone through [TS]

  like a half a tank of gas and span of [TS]

  three days but that's a different issue [TS]

  but this car will be going back to Alfa [TS]

  Romeo on Monday so anyway the 8-speed ZF [TS]

  8-speed it feels unlike any other [TS]

  automatic I've driven and I don't know [TS]

  if it's just that it has a lock-up [TS]

  torque converter that spends almost all [TS]

  of its time locked but it feels much [TS]

  more like a DCT than it does a [TS]

  traditional automatic the problem I have [TS]

  with the Alfa Romeo though was that [TS]

  there is that first gear is pretty much [TS]

  useless and and I don't know what it is [TS]

  because it it just doesn't really move [TS]

  in first gear and then you bang into [TS]

  second gear and suddenly you know the [TS]

  the Kraken has been released and all [TS]

  bets are off [TS]

  well at least that's what I thought and [TS]

  it turns out that I'm just too [TS]

  programmed by BMW and I'm too used to [TS]

  seeing the dashboard light up like a [TS]

  Christmas tree [TS]

  if the traction control comes on so [TS]

  earlier today I was out and the Alfa [TS]

  Romeo has four modes it has D na for [TS]

  dynamic natural and advanced efficiency [TS]

  which basically amounts to sport normal [TS]

  and eco crap [TS]

  but it also has race mode race mode is [TS]

  scary because race mode turns off all [TS]

  the electronic nannies and that's the [TS]

  way it works it also makes the exhaust [TS]

  sound even better but it turns off all [TS]

  the electronic nannies and so I had it [TS]

  in race mode I had [TS]

  firmly planted with the wheel at zero [TS]

  degrees because this is a rear-wheel [TS]

  drive car with 500 horsepower and I [TS]

  don't trust my driving skills as Marco [TS]

  saw at BMW in South Carolina so anyway I [TS]

  had it firmly planted at zero degrees [TS]

  and I mashed on the gas and I realized [TS]

  oh my first gear isn't the problem [TS]

  the problem is it doesn't have wide [TS]

  enough tires to get the traction to the [TS]

  ground or to get to get the torque to [TS]

  the ground and so the problem is that [TS]

  it's neutered in first because it just [TS]

  can't it just can't get the power down [TS]

  and oh my word is this thing quick when [TS]

  it hooks up [TS]

  it is unbelievable fast the numbers say [TS]

  it's zero to 60 in a little under 4 [TS]

  seconds which is probably about the same [TS]

  speed as Marcos Tesla but oh my word it [TS]

  feels like a rocket and sounds so good [TS]

  it is unbelievable I don't know what to [TS]

  make of the reliability you know [TS]

  obviously everyone has like a dad or an [TS]

  uncle or a grandfather or a cousin or [TS]

  something like that that had an Alfa [TS]

  Romeo 20-30 years ago and said that they [TS]

  never worked for more than 10 minutes at [TS]

  a time I believe that to be true I don't [TS]

  doubt it I don't know if this is [TS]

  reliable or not who knows but it if it [TS]

  is reliable and if one can have one [TS]

  under the $80,000 or so that the [TS]

  stickers for wow what a great sedan and [TS]

  so much of the inside feels like it's a [TS]

  BMW but slightly different the gear [TS]

  shift is straight out of a BMW mate I'm [TS]

  assuming not literally but it's the [TS]

  exact same style as like Tiff's car has [TS]

  the paddles are humongous but otherwise [TS]

  very BMW ish although the BMW loaner I [TS]

  have today because my car went into the [TS]

  shop for another $2,000 repair the [TS]

  loaner I have today is the 340 grand [TS]

  grand touring grand treason or whatever [TS]

  the hell the thing is that if has the [TS]

  debrief I'm sorry not 340 a 330 GT and [TS]

  this and the paddles are on the steering [TS]

  wheel and I think I prefer that but Maya [TS]

  my understanding is that I'm wrong so [TS]

  John do you know why I'm [TS]

  to prefer the paddles on the wheel [TS]

  rather than the steering column I [TS]

  thought about that a lot because every [TS]

  time I read review some what people have [TS]

  strong opinions like usually they're [TS]

  they're raving about them in the Ferrari [TS]

  and how they're how they're on the [TS]

  column and not on the wheel but I really [TS]

  the only thing I have to compare it to [TS]

  is you know my audio controls which I [TS]

  use a surprising amount because I do [TS]

  random play on my on my ipod in the car [TS]

  and I do a lot of skipping much to the [TS]

  consternation of everyone in the car [TS]

  with me and so very often I will want to [TS]

  skip to the next track while I'm turning [TS]

  and I think about would it be better if [TS]

  I could get to that control and it was [TS]

  always in the same place or would it be [TS]

  better that it stays you know visit [TS]

  because were actually on the steering [TS]

  wheel and I having you know I can't say [TS]

  having owned the only paddle-shift car [TS]

  I've ever used as Markos m5 and I don't [TS]

  think it did a lot of sharp turns now [TS]

  but my recollection is that those [TS]

  paddles were on the column is that [TS]

  correct mark oh no they were on the [TS]

  wheel is not helping me but anyway I've [TS]

  never I've never even driven one that [TS]

  had it on the column yeah so using my [TS]

  audio controls I think I would find it [TS]

  more convenient for them to turn with [TS]

  the wheel because where are my hands [TS]

  they're usually like I'm not you know [TS]

  it's good that the ones that are on the [TS]

  column never move but it's bad that my [TS]

  hands might be far away from it if I'm [TS]

  in the middle of a turn and holding on [TS]

  for dear life but I confess that I have [TS]

  no actual experience in this situation [TS]

  closest I have is taking a a you know [TS]

  suburban street turn a little bit too [TS]

  fast while I'm trying to skip a track [TS]

  and in that case I like the fact that [TS]

  it's PI my hand but changing audio is [TS]

  not it's not the same as shifting gear [TS]

  so what is your experience with have you [TS]

  used both kinds Casey well yeah so to [TS]

  back up a half step today my car my 335 [TS]

  went in for service I asked for a state [TS]

  inspection which is required by law in [TS]

  the state of Virginia to be 16 dollars [TS]

  the bill is about 1,600 the reason being [TS]

  apparently my rear tires were on the way [TS]

  or indicators to the point that they [TS]

  would not do a safety inspection they [TS]

  would not past the safety inspection and [TS]

  then they said oh the Front's are bad [TS]

  enough that you should probably do the [TS]

  same thing so $1,600 later I now have [TS]

  new tires or will have new tires but the [TS]

  problem I have is every time I bring my [TS]

  car into the shop as you guys know [TS]

  better than anyone it's usually there [TS]

  for at least an overnight as it turns [TS]

  out it has been if not a week or more so [TS]

  I asked for a loaner when I booked this [TS]

  appointment like two or three weeks ago [TS]

  and then the the Julia showed up and I [TS]

  thought oh maybe I should just tell them [TS]

  you know don't give me a loaner because [TS]

  I have this car but then I thought no if [TS]

  I do that then it will need a full like [TS]

  coolant system replacement or water pump [TS]

  or something like that so I better just [TS]

  have both of them so right now in my [TS]

  driveway there is one car that we own [TS]

  and two cars that are borrowed and the [TS]

  in the borrowed car like I said is a 330 [TS]

  GT which is the neutered version of [TS]

  Tiff's car the rear visibility out of [TS]

  that by the way is comically bad but [TS]

  anyway the the the 3/4 I keep saying 340 [TS]

  the 330 has steering wheel-mounted [TS]

  paddles and I think I vastly prefer that [TS]

  because I've been driving the Alfa [TS]

  predominantly in manual mode and it will [TS]

  aggressively try to avoid shifting by [TS]

  like presumably shutting down cylinders [TS]

  are killing the fuel into the engine [TS]

  rather than shifting so so so there have [TS]

  been a couple times where I've been [TS]

  turning the Alfa and wanted to grab the [TS]

  the up shift paddle and it's not where I [TS]

  expect it to be because it's hanging out [TS]

  at the steering column and I meant like [TS]

  my hands are at like 12 and 6 o'clock [TS]

  and even though these paddles are [TS]

  friggin enormous which I do like they're [TS]

  not where I expect them to be and I [TS]

  don't prefer it so in my brief [TS]

  experience with paddle shifted cars I [TS]

  think I preferred on the wheel which is [TS]

  weird because almost everyone I ever [TS]

  like almost every YouTube video I ever [TS]

  see seems to think that on the on the [TS]

  column is the better way to do it I [TS]

  think the people who like it on the [TS]

  column is based on racing and I bet you [TS]

  steer differently and racing first of [TS]

  all is you know it's not it's not the [TS]

  same as going on a certain street where [TS]

  you might cross your hands over each [TS]

  other I imagine maybe the racing [TS]

  technique is not to do as much like to [TS]

  do more of passing the wheel through [TS]

  your hands instead of going into these [TS]

  crazy positions where your arms are [TS]

  practically crossing over each other but [TS]

  that's just a guess because that's the [TS]

  scenario where you would want it on the [TS]

  I mean I'm just think of like f1 [TS]

  cockpits where you have to take the [TS]

  steering wheel off to even get in the [TS]

  stupid thing you don't you don't have a [TS]

  lot of room to be like turning your [TS]

  hands over each other and you even if [TS]

  you're making sharp turns and the [TS]

  steering ratios are you know [TS]

  steering ratios are you know [TS]

  not the same as in regular cars so maybe [TS]

  in that situation although they don't [TS]

  have paddle shifters on the f1 cars [TS]

  anyways I don't know I don't know what [TS]

  I'm talking about but I can see the [TS]

  argument boat I can see the argument [TS]

  both ways based on how you drive what is [TS]

  your driving technique life with the [TS]

  giant steering wheel on residential [TS]

  roads in a regular person sedan on the [TS]

  wheel probably seems like it's better [TS]

  but for the people who are raving it [TS]

  could be just the situation of like if [TS]

  they're on a race track that's why [TS]

  Ferraris have them you know that there [TS]

  are advantages in that scenario so maybe [TS]

  if you had well let's say but when you [TS]

  did the BAM get BMW drivers cool did all [TS]

  the BMWs or do you stick shifts or were [TS]

  you paddle no they they had one series [TS]

  M's not too long before we were there [TS]

  but they said they were constantly [TS]

  blowing clutches because nobody knew how [TS]

  to drive them and so they abandoned [TS]

  those and everything was DCT when we [TS]

  were there and so those were all [TS]

  steering wheel-mounted yeah I don't [TS]

  think he's ever made a car that wasn't [TS]

  that like if it has paddles I think [TS]

  there on the wheel the only thing that's [TS]

  a bummer about these humongous paddles [TS]

  though is that they're exactly where I'm [TS]

  used to having a turn signal every time [TS]

  I go to use my turn signal I hit the [TS]

  damn downshift paddle or almost hit the [TS]

  downshift paddle but yeah this df8 speed [TS]

  man it is a great transmission and my [TS]

  buddy Brian who had the r32 he had an [TS]

  e36 m3 he had the 335 he has only [TS]

  recommended to me that I buy my 335 he [TS]

  now has a 6-speed x5 which turns out is [TS]

  the thing and I believe I've spoken to [TS]

  you too about it and I've driven it and [TS]

  it is completely wrong in every measure [TS]

  but it is phenomenally cool well anyway [TS]

  he had been telling me for years that [TS]

  the ZF 8-speed is actually really good [TS]

  and I kept telling him he was out of a [TS]

  stay in mind and it's DCT or 6-speed or [TS]

  get out I still think I'd prefer DCT but [TS]

  I think if I had put mmm if Marko or [TS]

  myself had ended up in this car and not [TS]

  known if it was a DCT or a slush box I'm [TS]

  not sure either of us could tell the [TS]

  difference it is really that good it is [TS]

  phenomenally good and the car is just [TS]

  tremendous so much of the switchgear [TS]

  feels like BMW it does get silly things [TS]

  wrong as an example [TS]

  BMW turn signals are very peculiar but I [TS]

  love them and [TS]

  way it works is they always end up in [TS]

  the center so even if you have the turn [TS]

  signal constantly going for an hour the [TS]

  stalk will be in the center so what you [TS]

  can do is if you want to cancel a turn [TS]

  signal you can either hit it in the same [TS]

  direction it was going before or you can [TS]

  even go in the opposite direction just a [TS]

  smidge and either way it will cancel [TS]

  like a pending turn signal in the Alpha [TS]

  what I'm used to doing is I'll turn on a [TS]

  turn signal and if for some reason I [TS]

  want it to turn back off I will just hit [TS]

  it in the same direction again so if I [TS]

  hit the left signal then I'll hit it [TS]

  again to cancel it and in the alpha the [TS]

  only way to cancel just to go the [TS]

  opposite direction which is this little [TS]

  quirky thing but it drives me bananas [TS]

  the other quirky thing is it is it is [TS]

  really good Bluetooth support everything [TS]

  seems fine with that except every time [TS]

  you get in the car you need to reach in [TS]

  and if you go to your phone as the media [TS]

  input you need to tell it to reconnect [TS]

  to the phone for media it's already [TS]

  connected for telephone but it's not [TS]

  connected for media and it's instant [TS]

  when it does it cuz it's already [TS]

  connected via the phone but you have to [TS]

  tell it yes I would like to listen to my [TS]

  phone please enter media mode on my [TS]

  phone it's so annoying that's pretty but [TS]

  yeah but it works great in the in the [TS]

  display is pretty high-res the back up [TS]

  camera is comically not but the the [TS]

  display is pretty high rayet res it [TS]

  blends into the dashboard much better [TS]

  than any BMW does with like those like [TS]

  Tiff's car where it's just like a screen [TS]

  hanging out of the dashboard out of out [TS]

  of nowhere [TS]

  howdy does the same thing that's not [TS]

  unique to BMW but mostly switchgear just [TS]

  feels like BMW and I mean that in a good [TS]

  way it feels very familiar one of the [TS]

  advantages of having a two pedal cars it [TS]

  has a remote start which is kind of neat [TS]

  what I'll start I write down the the [TS]

  biggest thing for me is just that it is [TS]

  it feels much like the m5 did and it [TS]

  feels much like the Tesla does in that [TS]

  it feels like infinite power from almost [TS]

  any part of the any part of the rpm [TS]

  range the other thing that's interesting [TS]

  is 3,000 rpm in any standard [TS]

  transmission car I've ever driven is [TS]

  about where I would normally shift so [TS]

  like to that one 1,500 to 2,000 rpm in [TS]

  any car I've ever driven is like the [TS]

  comfort zone right and 3,000 rpms when [TS]

  you [TS]

  starting to get out of your definitely [TS]

  out of the comfort zone but you're [TS]

  starting to get into like no you're [TS]

  clearly trying to go somewhere with a [TS]

  quickness that's like what 3000 plus is [TS]

  in this car which has about a 6500 rpm [TS]

  redline in this car 3000 rpm feels like [TS]

  2,000 rpm in any other car which is to [TS]

  say 3000 rpm feels like okay this is [TS]

  about the top of the comfort zone but [TS]

  still comfortably in the comfort zone so [TS]

  it just wants to rev like like no other [TS]

  car I've ever driven and it is [TS]

  phenomenally phenomenally fun now all in [TS]

  the chat room is giving me all sorts of [TS]

  grief because I didn't make a perfect [TS]

  quality video for him or her and is [TS]

  wondering why I'm doing a video at all [TS]

  my intention is to do a proper you know [TS]

  car review of this and put it on YouTube [TS]

  probably sometimes six months from now [TS]

  but it's I'm trying to get a whole bunch [TS]

  of film that I can splice together using [TS]

  either iMovie or if I decide to spend [TS]

  the money on Final Cut Pro and hopefully [TS]

  get like a 5 to 10-minute video out of [TS]

  this also interesting whoa and I'm [TS]

  definitely gonna write something on my [TS]

  blog about it [TS]

  also interestingly if you and I don't [TS]

  think I have the link handy but if you [TS]

  look up the ARS technica review of this [TS]

  car it as it turns out that that review [TS]

  was written by someone based out of DC [TS]

  well this car is based out of Baltimore [TS]

  and if you look at the plate on by on [TS]

  the car that's in my garage as we speak [TS]

  and if you look at the plate of the ARS [TS]

  technica review it is the same plate and [TS]

  thus one would assume it is the same car [TS]

  also interestingly there was another [TS]

  review I saw based out of by someone [TS]

  based out of New York and the plate on [TS]

  this car is either six or GLP k17 [TS]

  and the other review I saw was II I [TS]

  guess it's six lpk one six so it's not [TS]

  really surprising but it just trucked me [TS]

  funny that apparently you know Alfa [TS]

  Romeo or really Fiat Chrysler a Chrysler [TS]

  of America you know imported you know [TS]

  maybe six of these or something like [TS]

  that and just went to the Michigan you [TS]

  know DMV and said ok I would like to [TS]

  register six julia's if you please [TS]

  additionally when the car was delivered [TS]

  on Monday it was delivered in the cars [TS]

  the the competition II read which is [TS]

  beautiful when it was delivered the [TS]

  chase car was another Julia it was not [TS]

  the quadrupole Quadrifoglio I think [TS]

  that's right I'm sorry Federico anyway [TS]

  it was just the more pedestrian version [TS]

  the chase car was white the loaner that [TS]

  I got today and I did not ask for it is [TS]

  white this one thing this white then [TS]

  follows me even though I don't want it [TS]

  but sure I don't I really don't but god [TS]

  this this red is so good so I will you [TS]

  say in my history of getting serviced [TS]

  loaner vehicles from car makers while my [TS]

  car's in the shop [TS]

  I've never gotten a white one you had a [TS]

  bunch of white ones when we were in [TS]

  South Carolina driving school yeah [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  anyway the car is tremendous I don't [TS]

  want to give it back I I really really [TS]

  love it and if I was if I was to buy a [TS]

  car tomorrow and I was willing to give [TS]

  up on the six-speed and I had $80,000 to [TS]

  spec I really think I would buy one I [TS]

  really really do I mean I'm used to a [TS]

  car that never runs anyway so why not [TS]

  get another one [TS]

  I this thing is tremendous that's really [TS]

  nice to hear like I I knew John would [TS]

  not like the way it looks and would [TS]

  therefore rule everything else had about [TS]

  it plus John would never buy a car this [TS]

  expensive no matter how much money he [TS]

  had so I and I am you just made an [TS]

  infinite time scale argument okay on an [TS]

  infinite money scale yes but anyway I am [TS]

  most pleased to hear your opinion of the [TS]

  automatic transmission because your [TS]

  description of it like really avoiding [TS]

  shifting when you're in manual mode like [TS]

  really avoiding shifting itself the main [TS]

  problems I had with with all manually [TS]

  shifted automatics that I've ever driven [TS]

  and have come down to too many gears and [TS]

  also that you know that it would [TS]

  second-guess me and it would shift [TS]

  itself when it felt like being [TS]

  convenient for me no matter what kind of [TS]

  sporty or manual mode I put it in [TS]