The Accidental Tech Podcast

250: We're Doing a Show


  so John I'm curious do you realize how [TS]

  much of a Boston accent you have I do [TS]

  not have a Boston accent you don't even [TS]

  know what a Boston accent is even watch [TS]

  too many too many of the the stupids of [TS]

  what's-his-name Matt Damon's friend Ben [TS]

  Affleck yeah I know what a Boston accent [TS]

  is and I know you don't have a standard [TS]

  one but you do have some of one and I [TS]

  don't think I don't think you know this [TS]

  I don't I know during this podcast I [TS]

  misspoke and said some word that sounded [TS]

  like it has a Boston accent because I [TS]

  like bailed in the middle of a word and [TS]

  changed to a different thing and it [TS]

  ended up coming out I recognized that I [TS]

  did that in this episode yeah that was [TS]

  not me doing a Boston accent that was me [TS]

  totally miss speaking and like trying to [TS]

  rope it back in the middle of a word in [TS]

  this weird sound coming out do not say [TS]

  that word that way I heard myself do it [TS]

  too but no I have a New York accent for [TS]

  as far as I have any accent it's why [TS]

  people complain about I say Mario that's [TS]

  not a Boston thing [TS]

  look you live there you can't you can't [TS]

  deny that it's going to have an effect [TS]

  on you oh it doesn't I'm not one of [TS]

  those people I'm not one of those people [TS]

  who picks up the accents from my [TS]

  surrounding all my kids speak [TS]

  differently than me you know you don't [TS]

  pick it up like a hundred percent but [TS]

  like you definitely have some slight [TS]

  boston influence in your speak I don't [TS]

  think I do at all zero so wrong zero [TS]

  amount like some sort of weird access [TS]

  issue of the past two days trying to get [TS]

  to daring fireball like it's not a DNS [TS]

  thing because I think it's going past [TS]

  the DNS stage but it's just taking [TS]

  forever to load like I started to load a [TS]

  page before I picked up your call it's [TS]

  still loading the the progress bar [TS]

  throws a white screen in Safari is it [TS]

  possible that's because your computer is [TS]

  slower than like my phone from last year [TS]

  that's not that hey I can't love a [TS]

  demanding site there in firewall with [TS]

  all its widgets and geegaws it's a word [TS]

  that I'm very sure geg aw I think it was [TS]

  officially removed from the dictionary [TS]

  30 years ago a showy thing especially [TS]

  one that is useless or worthless and [TS]

  also it's usually GE WG aw googa googa [TS]

  thought I said [TS]

  I think he said giggle oh you're right I [TS]

  did all right well then maybe giggle [TS]

  isn't a word no is it an alternate [TS]

  spelling yeah I think so cuz I looked up [TS]

  geegaw and ended up with goo gah [TS]

  yeah oh no I well I guess it's just an [TS]

  autocorrect thing because it's usually [TS]

  goo God's apparently digitally plural [TS]

  wow this is already taking a turn for [TS]

  the unexpected it's important to get the [TS]

  leap is right merriam-webster has it [TS]

  it's a less common variant of Google I [TS]

  don't wanna do this first I'm gonna [TS]

  follow up because I really don't wanna [TS]

  hear any more whining about the new [TS]

  MacBook Pros gentlemen it'll be quick [TS]

  it's a quickie [TS]

  it's quickie okay it's yeah I'm sure [TS]

  that once you bring up a complaint about [TS]

  the MacBook Pro it's totally going to be [TS]

  a 30-second endeavour ball I I wanted to [TS]

  put the dues quick in there I guarantee [TS]

  that it won't be great I'm already [TS]

  punchy you having a holiday party no I'm [TS]

  not be that's the problem especially [TS]

  given this first item the follow-up I [TS]

  need a holiday party until the laptops [TS]

  are fixed we're gonna keep talking about [TS]

  them hey you know what they're not all [TS]

  they're not all bad anyway the 60% of [TS]

  them don't have keyboard failures [TS]

  apparently are fine yeah but they were [TS]

  all bad I don't know that reference John [TS]

  don't care I'm already punchy so let's [TS]

  just get it out of the way we're [TS]

  starting with follow up ladies and [TS]

  gentlemen and apparently John said his [TS]

  complaint about a 2016 or 17 MacBook Pro [TS]

  will be and I'm quoting very quick I [TS]

  guarantee it [TS]

  so look at the timer look at the elapsed [TS]

  time let's go buckle up kids what's [TS]

  going on John I've got one of these at [TS]

  work remember so I use it every day so I [TS]

  have in case you have complaints anyway [TS]

  I noticed this today I very rarely do [TS]

  anything with my laptop or work except [TS]

  keep it closed and plug it in to other [TS]

  devices but I was in a lot of meetings [TS]

  today and I had two laptop open and the [TS]

  lighting was just right and it occurred [TS]

  to me that still in 2017 Apple's making [TS]

  keyboards where the keys touch the [TS]

  screen when you close it and that's been [TS]

  true for years and years and years and [TS]

  years has it ever not been true is Apple [TS]

  ever made a keyboard where the keys [TS]

  don't touch the screen well guess what [TS]

  finger greases on the keys and now [TS]

  finger grease is on my keyboard in the [TS]

  shape on my screen in the shape of my [TS]

  keyboard in the long list of things that [TS]

  we want Apple to correct I believe that [TS]

  it is possible for Apple to make a [TS]

  computer [TS]

  laptop computer when you close it the [TS]

  grease from your fingers on the keys [TS]

  does not come off onto the screen and [TS]

  you don't get a greasy outline of all [TS]

  the keys in the keyboard and screen I [TS]

  believe that's possible we have very low [TS]

  profile keys they're all about thinness [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  well I think they did I don't I don't [TS]

  know if they still do on my original [TS]

  PowerBook g4 the aluminum PowerBook g4 [TS]

  that was my first Mac that like I I had [TS]

  heard about this problem about like [TS]

  because and back then like when you had [TS]

  the matte screen it was a lot easier for [TS]

  a permanent imprint to develop because [TS]

  you couldn't really wipe off that that [TS]

  the screen coating very very much like [TS]

  to clean it and I had heard about this [TS]

  and so I decided as a policy that I [TS]

  would carry the laptop in the backpack [TS]

  such that the screen lid was not facing [TS]

  my back it was facing the other way [TS]

  carrying it this way every day to and [TS]

  from work and everything I never had [TS]

  that problem my that that computer never [TS]

  developed the imprint of the keyboard on [TS]

  the screen and my theory was that in a [TS]

  perfect layout of the laptop back on a [TS]

  desk the screen and keyboard don't [TS]

  actually touch but if there's any flex [TS]

  that's squeezing the laptop a little bit [TS]

  from from the sides like in a bag any [TS]

  flex is enough to push the screen [TS]

  against the keyboard inside there [TS]

  because it's such a tiny little gap and [TS]

  I imagine over time that gap has only [TS]

  gotten smaller so it's possible that in [TS]

  while sitting on a desk it doesn't press [TS]

  against it but that if you have it in a [TS]

  bag or in a certain kind of stand that [TS]

  stands it upright like anything that [TS]

  would possibly apply pressure to the [TS]

  outside of it like books next to in a [TS]

  bag that might compress it just enough [TS]

  to make that contact happen yeah I'm [TS]

  sure that's what's happening but I'm [TS]

  saying you know we got the butterfly [TS]

  keyboard how many years ago Casey we can [TS]

  make a keyboard that like collapses into [TS]

  the case and gets out of flex distance I [TS]

  don't know I'm just saying it's it's an [TS]

  area of potential improvement not just [TS]

  for this laptop but you know we do have [TS]

  very low profile keys I figured like [TS]

  you'd use that gap should be getting [TS]

  bigger and not smaller because nobody [TS]

  likes greasy keys on that screen no no [TS]

  you're asking them to make even lower [TS]

  profile keys please for the love of God [TS]

  do not solve this problem in this way [TS]

  the whole be just move the whole [TS]

  keyboard down you can make high keys but [TS]

  then have them sink into the keyboard [TS]

  magically I don't know no one's use [TS]

  laptops they're bad [TS]

  not bad oh my god the butterfly keyboard [TS]

  was 1995 I'll put links in the show [TS]

  notes I actually noticed it was either [TS]

  today or yesterday that are my beloved [TS]

  MacBook adorable which I wouldn't change [TS]

  in any way don't tell them anyway I [TS]

  noticed that I noticed that on that that [TS]

  machine I generally hold it I don't know [TS]

  by maybe the hinge or I don't even [TS]

  remember and it's not sitting next to me [TS]

  so I can't like demonstrate to myself [TS]

  but I was holding it in such a way that [TS]

  I felt like it was giving a little bit [TS]

  and I think I was putting a little bit [TS]

  of pressure toward the center of the [TS]

  screen which is not something I normally [TS]

  do I don't like to mess with the LCD but [TS]

  it just so happened that I gripped it in [TS]

  such a way that I noticed that this the [TS]

  the if I put pressure on the center of [TS]

  the LCD but roughly where the Apple logo [TS]

  is while it's closed I can feel it like [TS]

  give enough to come into contact with [TS]

  the bottom part of the case [TS]

  so it's just like you're describing John [TS]

  where the clearly the screen is now [TS]

  impacting the keys and I don't recall [TS]

  ever having a laptop that did that and [TS]

  I'm probably wrong and I bet all of them [TS]

  do it but it was a very uncomfortable [TS]

  very unnerving feeling that I did not [TS]

  like and that that happened to me in the [TS]

  last 24 hours [TS]

  I will also note to go back a step to [TS]

  Marco strategies to avoid keyboard [TS]

  grease I knew for a long time several [TS]

  super nerds that used to keep I don't [TS]

  even think they still come in them in [TS]

  the Mac books or MacBook Pros anymore [TS]

  but it used to be when you got an Apple [TS]

  laptop you know where this is going [TS]

  right so they used to have this sheet of [TS]

  like not foam but like some sort of foam [TS]

  like material that would be between the [TS]

  display and the keyboard and I knew a [TS]

  lot of people that would carry that with [TS]

  them and then put it in their device [TS]

  before they close the lid in order to [TS]

  prevent any sort of scraping against the [TS]

  screen and I always thought that was [TS]

  crazy until one day I noticed an outline [TS]

  if a keyboard on my screen and thought [TS]

  well okay that's a little bit weird but [TS]

  maybe not so crazy after all no and [TS]

  people still do that and they were even [TS]

  there were a third party like cloths [TS]

  that would fit it perfectly also that [TS]

  people would do that that's that was a [TS]

  pretty widespread thing for a while and [TS]

  I think it is still done by about the [TS]

  same number of people that that ever did [TS]

  it but to me that always felt to fit [TS]

  it's like John having [TS]

  phone in a pouch that has DSi take it [TS]

  out of this pouch before he uses it like [TS]

  that's like a step too far for me and [TS]

  with the laptop that's like you know [TS]

  that'd having like a piece of cloth that [TS]

  I stick between the laptop keyboard and [TS]

  lid when I close it and have to open it [TS]

  up and take it off every time like that [TS]

  that's like too fiddly for me like I [TS]

  would rather have the imprint of the [TS]

  keyboard that has to do that every [TS]

  single time all I hear is that you're [TS]

  too jealous of my incredibly clean phone [TS]

  but this brings actual solution to this [TS]

  problem and the grand tradition of [TS]

  steganography [TS]

  if they just made their screens touch [TS]

  screens then the giant amount of finger [TS]

  grease randomly placed all over the [TS]

  screen would mask the shape of the [TS]

  keyboard which would still be there [TS]

  hidden in the information but you [TS]

  wouldn't be able to see it especially if [TS]

  they coated it with whatever's coding [TS]

  the 10.5 inch iPad pro screen which is [TS]

  so like this is the most fingerprinting [TS]

  iOS device I think I've ever had I heard [TS]

  they had to change the coding for the [TS]

  Apple pencil like to make that work well [TS]

  and not wear it weirdly but whatever [TS]

  whatever is different the 9.7 didn't see [TS]

  in this bad [TS]

  the 10.5 iPad pro is it just is a [TS]

  constant wall of fingerprints it is [TS]

  hideous I wish I knew any way to prevent [TS]

  that besides using gloves or using one [TS]

  of John's pouches stop touching your [TS]

  screen mind control or keyboard [TS]

  shortcuts yeah oh speaking of speaking [TS]

  of phone cases I do have some follow-up [TS]

  you are still case ulis but I am no [TS]

  longer caseless oh yeah yeah so as [TS]

  winter is setting in here in the East [TS]

  Coast in these places that have winter [TS]

  I'm like you Casey [TS]

  cold dry hands that I'm that I'm getting [TS]

  on some at some of these days made me [TS]

  feel a lot less secure about carrying [TS]

  the iPhone 10 caseless first I tried [TS]

  there there's a there's a vendor that I [TS]

  will put in these show notes whose name [TS]

  I have forgotten again I keep kept [TS]

  reading this name that it's basically I [TS]

  think it's this one guy in Brooklyn who [TS]

  laser cuts leather stick on backing it's [TS]

  like from real pieces of leather they're [TS]

  really nice and they're only 25 bucks so [TS]

  like it's not it's not like a crazy [TS]

  crazy thing and and I have one on my [TS]

  iPhone 4 and I moved it to the iPhone 4s [TS]

  at that because having like a flat piece [TS]

  of leather on the back of the phone only [TS]

  does not cover the sides that has a [TS]

  cutout for the camera that's it but it's [TS]

  just like leather with a hole for the [TS]

  camera no logos not just blank leather [TS]

  and it's high-quality so it feels really [TS]

  soft and nice having that on the back of [TS]

  the iPhone 4 with it with the glass back [TS]

  felt awesome [TS]

  it was fantastic I was so glad to happen [TS]

  I figured I would let me try that again [TS]

  for the iPhone 10 and I use it for a few [TS]

  days and if it does indeed feel good [TS]

  most of the time but the iPhone 10 [TS]

  because it doesn't have straight sides [TS]

  and and the four also had like a little [TS]

  tiny like rubber gasket lip that ran [TS]

  around the glass on the back so it kind [TS]

  of provided like a little wall to to [TS]

  like keep the border of whatever [TS]

  stick-on thing you had in the back there [TS]

  like clean and contained the new phones [TS]

  don't have it there they're so curvy and [TS]

  rounded on the sides that any kind of [TS]

  stick-on thing that only covers the back [TS]

  if it has any thickness at all like if [TS]

  it's not if it's more than just like a [TS]

  vinyl sticker kind of thing if it has [TS]

  any thickness at all it kind of has to [TS]

  create its own edge and that edge guy [TS]

  couldn't like peeled up as I would just [TS]

  handle the phone like it just clearly [TS]

  this is not really made for this anymore [TS]

  and and so as much as I love the feel of [TS]

  that I decided like I need something [TS]

  else that provides grip when to the [TS]

  Apple store and felt all the cases and [TS]

  actually like they prompted the Apple [TS]

  Store it used to be impossible to try [TS]

  out a case in the Apple store then the [TS]

  stores had these like some sort of have [TS]

  like these tables in the middle [TS]

  somewhere where they would have like a [TS]

  little box or rack full of cases that [TS]

  you could try on like with an employee's [TS]

  help and now they just have like the key [TS]

  like they have an example case on the [TS]

  little post but the other cases are like [TS]

  that the boxes for the cases are hanging [TS]

  on and you can just pick it up and stick [TS]

  it on the phone that you have in your [TS]

  pocket you can even put in your pocket [TS]

  nobody arrest you and then you can go [TS]

  put it back and decide whether to buy it [TS]

  or not and so you can actually try out [TS]

  all the cases on your phone in your hand [TS]

  and in your pocket to see how they all [TS]

  feel which is really nice I got to give [TS]

  him credit for that anyway I tried the [TS]

  the silicone case because that provides [TS]

  the best grip of all the cases but when [TS]

  it goes in and out of [TS]

  pocket I have a serious problem with the [TS]

  amount of friction that it has there I [TS]

  may eventually go to that anyway but I [TS]

  I'm hoping I don't have to I tried the [TS]

  black leather case first I tried the red [TS]

  leather case I tried like colors and [TS]

  everything the color seemed way too [TS]

  aggressive to me because they come up [TS]

  around the edge and so you're like [TS]

  you're not just seeing the color on the [TS]

  back of your phone you're seeing the [TS]

  color framing everything on your phone [TS]

  all the time and that to me it just [TS]

  looked maybe this was I had just done it [TS]

  for the first time but it looked a [TS]

  little garish I didn't want like this [TS]

  bright red you know 3/4 of a rectangle [TS]

  around my content all the time so I went [TS]

  with just the Apple black leather case [TS]

  the same one I used for the sixth and 6s [TS]

  it's fine [TS]

  I'm not incredibly happy with it I gotta [TS]

  say just because it still has the same [TS]

  problem of like it collects dust around [TS]

  the rim between it and the phone on the [TS]

  front it does cover up a lot of what [TS]

  makes this phone attractive at like you [TS]

  know case design wise it does smooth out [TS]

  the camera bump completely which is very [TS]

  nice because the iPhone 10 has a very [TS]

  prominent camera bump even more so than [TS]

  the previous phones and it really stands [TS]

  up far off a desk and makes it hard to [TS]

  lie flat so as so the Apple other case [TS]

  does fix that but ultimately the one [TS]

  thing I'm kind of dissatisfaction [TS]

  I like I know Casey you didn't did you [TS]

  ever use yours caseless I have very very [TS]

  very very briefly but I am way too [TS]

  scared especially since I didn't pony up [TS]

  for Apple care this time I am way too [TS]

  scared to do it with any sort of [TS]

  regularity and so it is almost [TS]

  exclusively lived in the way in in the [TS]

  in the weather case in the leather case [TS]

  and so I do quite like the leather case [TS]

  I've used leather cases on and off for [TS]

  most of my history with iPhones [TS]

  I feel like this one I am particularly I [TS]

  don't know if I'm looking for what word [TS]

  I'm looking for frustrated annoyed [TS]

  displeased but one of those negative [TS]

  adjectives because I feel like I'm [TS]

  getting way more pocket-lint around the [TS]

  sides and I've ever had before that's [TS]

  probably me being completely bananas but [TS]

  it just seems that way and I think [TS]

  because the phone is a little bit [TS]

  thicker to begin with then [TS]

  seven which in and of itself fine but [TS]

  then add to your point the leather case [TS]

  on top of that which is not thin and by [TS]

  comparison to the seven which I've been [TS]

  handling you know once or twice a week [TS]

  for various reasons trying to get like [TS]

  old date off my phone or whatever it [TS]

  feels way thicker than my seven does and [TS]

  if you recall my seven I did not use a [TS]

  case on for the first time in forever [TS]

  because I did get AppleCare and ended up [TS]

  breaking the screen and this Apple Care [TS]

  or not this one I I just don't trust [TS]

  myself because I I think I will break it [TS]

  without question so that is many words [TS]

  to say I have the leather case I have [TS]

  often used the leather case and I feel [TS]

  like it's the best option I've seen but [TS]

  I don't really love it yeah I was [TS]

  thinking about trying out like one of [TS]

  those D brand skins that mkbhd likes a [TS]

  lot I had one of those on my try one of [TS]

  those on my six and my six plus back [TS]

  when I was experimenting with those and [TS]

  they were they were decent they were [TS]

  they're especially good a values but [TS]

  they're really cheap it was like twelve [TS]

  bucks for the whole phone or something [TS]

  like that it's it's a very good price [TS]

  very good value but I don't think they [TS]

  look particularly good I think they look [TS]

  a little bit cheesy and tacky and the [TS]

  the main problem I have is it just [TS]

  didn't provide that much more grip than [TS]

  just the bear phone so I think what I'm [TS]

  probably gonna do is use the leather [TS]

  case on and off like when it's cold and [TS]

  my hands are all dry and slippery but [TS]

  then most of the time when I don't need [TS]

  it for that reason just use it bare [TS]

  again because it's so much more pleasant [TS]

  using it without a case it definitely is [TS]

  and remind me you do or do not have [TS]

  Apple care on that I do not oh you are a [TS]

  brave soul no I mean and look I admit [TS]

  it's a risk but it's also $200 plus the [TS]

  fee to replace it if I drop it plus [TS]

  there's a limit on how many times you [TS]

  can drop it and it's like okay let me [TS]

  see if I ever actually drop it and if I [TS]

  start dropping it so much that I think [TS]

  an extra two hundred dollars a year is a [TS]

  good deal then I will change my policy [TS]

  but again right now like because I've [TS]

  never dropped and broken a phone so far [TS]

  it's not a good policy for me yeah I [TS]

  don't know I mean really the only clear [TS]

  obvious answer [TS]

  - just put it in a little baggie every [TS]

  time you every time you're done using I [TS]

  mean why else why would you do anything [TS]

  else it's the only logical screen clean [TS]

  oh my god I don't have to worry about [TS]

  scratching on stuff in my pockets or [TS]

  it's only when I'm outside the house [TS]

  it'sa me like that the screen would even [TS]

  layer the little pouch that John has to [TS]

  drop his phone in and out of that to me [TS]

  would increase the risk of dropping it [TS]

  because that's one more thing that you [TS]

  have to put it into and and you what if [TS]

  you slightly miss the edge of the pouch [TS]

  and it falls off like yeah or I've never [TS]

  dropped my phone but if you are prone to [TS]

  dropping this probably increases your [TS]

  chances of dropping right and more [TS]

  opportunity to miss something right and [TS]

  on the way out - it's like here's one [TS]

  more thing you have to take the phone [TS]

  out of maybe if you reach into your [TS]

  pocket you pull it out and maybe you [TS]

  forget that it's in there and it [TS]

  accidentally slips at the bottom of the [TS]

  pouch like there's so many conditions [TS]

  where I think that's actually increasing [TS]

  your risk of damage it probably is but [TS]

  like I said it hasn't happened to me or [TS]

  when I'm clumsily trying to get it off [TS]

  of like my nightstand it's not in a [TS]

  passion that's totally just because I'm [TS]

  not awake or it's dark or I'm being [TS]

  careless that's the main place my phone [TS]

  falls is off of my nightstand onto the [TS]

  rug or hardwood floor next to it so we [TS]

  we were ostensibly doing follow-up at [TS]

  some point right [TS]

  yeah we got derailed with with Marcos [TS]

  case blows I think we were always [TS]

  ostensibly doing filed follow-up in the [TS]

  line my MacBook Pro I think you're right [TS]

  are we ever really not in follow-up oh [TS]

  my word all right so who added this [TS]

  glove thing I did because it remember we [TS]

  talked about the the Kickstarter for [TS]

  those like touch ID fingerprint stick [TS]

  who knows that that's even a thing well [TS]

  we got a report that it actually is a [TS]

  thing of course in Japan you can buy [TS]

  them for $7 what do you mean of course [TS]

  in Japan what's the old 80s or 90s [TS]

  stereotype that Japan is living like 20 [TS]

  years in our future and everything is [TS]

  awesome there which is not actually true [TS]

  but it's the old the old saw from back [TS]

  when I was a kid when Japan was gonna [TS]

  take over the world because they could [TS]

  make better cars than us all right good [TS]

  save still can not California Oh God [TS]

  you're the worst oh wait is this episode [TS]

  250 yeah it is Hey oh this is our 250th [TS]

  spectacular yeah do it happy whatever [TS]

  this is [TS]

  was it we're doing a show oh this is the [TS]

  most ATP a moment of any ATP moment [TS]

  where is it we're lucky we remembered it [TS]

  like not not too far into the show you [TS]

  know I totally I was not pretending that [TS]

  I remember that you did mention it like [TS]

  a week or two ago but I would not have [TS]

  thought I mean Marco should think of as [TS]

  he sees the episode numbers when he does [TS]

  like the like writes out the files and [TS]

  stuff well and I thought about it [TS]

  earlier this evening when I recorded the [TS]

  ads but because I put them in a folder [TS]

  called ATP 250 it's this week and then I [TS]

  promptly forgot we respond to this week [TS]

  by away for $20 off a suitcase visit [TS]

  away travel calm slash ATP and use promo [TS]

  code ATP during checkout away makes [TS]

  awesome high-quality suitcases they come [TS]

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  features is in their carry-ons they have [TS]

  built-in USB batteries so you can [TS]

  actually charge your phone while you're [TS]

  waiting in an airport for your flight [TS]

  and it's wonderful because you never [TS]

  have to arrive with empty phone it's [TS]

  it's one of those convenient little [TS]

  features that you wonder like how did [TS]

  anybody ever not have this in a suitcase [TS]

  it's pretty awesome and of course all [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  Aaron Lonard writes I agree with most of [TS]

  your points Oh God on the 2016 MacBook [TS]

  Pro 15 inch but we'll make one point of [TS]

  exception I would not want to live [TS]

  without touch ID that was introduced on [TS]

  this model I'm a consultant and have to [TS]

  use one password constantly how I [TS]

  remember those days throughout the day [TS]

  to access client systems I have some RSI [TS]

  issues from time to time and typing and [TS]

  using a finger print versus constantly [TS]

  typing to have my very long and complex [TS]

  master password it is life-changing to [TS]

  my workflow and efficiency the one [TS]

  feature offset this one feature offsets [TS]

  much of the criticism that I share [TS]

  regarding the other issues I think that [TS]

  makes sense I've never used a computer [TS]

  with touch ID if you recall the most [TS]

  modern laptop I have is my macbook [TS]

  adorable the one I use for work is that [TS]

  piece of garbage that's some like [TS]

  popular Apple blogger recommended [TS]

  recently that's like 13 years old [TS]

  oh is Mark oh that's right so anyway so [TS]

  I have a 2015 [TS]

  he's 2015 MacBook Pro I have only ever [TS]

  used touch bars for like 30 seconds at a [TS]

  time in the Apple Store I don't know [TS]

  what this amazing future is where you [TS]

  can use touch ID but it sounds pretty [TS]

  good but you know what sounds are even [TS]

  better face ID I want that in my life [TS]

  that's exactly why I put this in here is [TS]

  like yes touch ID is great but really [TS]

  what you really want his face ID because [TS]

  then you don't even have to put your [TS]

  finger up and your face is always right [TS]

  there in view of the camera and touch ID [TS]

  and laptops will be so much better our [TS]

  face ID and laptops will be so much [TS]

  better than touch ID and that's [TS]

  something that has touch ID you know [TS]

  obviously I don't use in clamshell most [TS]

  of the time but even when it's not in [TS]

  clamshell like when I'm carrying around [TS]

  for meeting stuff to unlock it because [TS]

  you know I like all work laptops it [TS]

  locks instantly if you like glance away [TS]

  from it for two seconds [TS]

  it is and I don't know if this is the [TS]

  fault idea I don't think this is the [TS]

  fault of Judge Atia I think it's the [TS]

  fault of all the evil software the [TS]

  enterprises make you put on your [TS]

  computer to make them crappier but you [TS]

  open that thing up and I put my finger [TS]

  on that touchpad and it's like a long [TS]

  time before that computer does anything [TS]

  why probably has something to do with [TS]

  Active Directory or Wi-Fi certificates [TS]

  or God knows what it's doing but all I [TS]

  know is it's not reading my fingerprint [TS]

  and unlocking in the computer same thing [TS]

  when I disconnected and connected from I [TS]

  really awesome [TS]

  super duper Thunderbolt Doc thingy that [TS]

  lets me have one cable that plugs in to [TS]

  power this whole thing of peripherals [TS]

  that's great part that's not great as I [TS]

  plug or unplug that cable I might as [TS]

  well go for a drink while my computer [TS]

  does sometimes I get a beach ball [TS]

  sometimes they don't get a beach ball [TS]

  sometimes it remembers my clicks and [TS]

  replays them a minute later sometimes it [TS]

  doesn't remember my click and replay [TS]

  them later it just seemed like your it [TS]

  just like it says to me you're not gonna [TS]

  use me for a while cuz I'm doing [TS]

  something and I and maybe it's wrong for [TS]

  me to always blame Active Directory but [TS]

  I do pretty much always playing that [TS]

  Active Directory is I don't [TS]

  I was not formally on the Active [TS]

  Directory network with my old computer [TS]

  and now I am and everything is worse one [TS]

  thing I've family probably is not gonna [TS]

  be helping your issues here [TS]

  unfortunately but when I first got my [TS]

  wonderful but used 2015 it would [TS]

  occasionally fail to wake up from sleep [TS]

  and I thought this was a high sierra bug [TS]

  but it turns out that it's just a [TS]

  15-inch MacBook Pro 2015 bug that seemed [TS]

  to exist before high sierra and it has [TS]

  to do apparently with power nap if you [TS]

  disable power nap it completely stops [TS]

  like the this problem just goes away [TS]

  completely I also noticed sometimes that [TS]

  wet like it would it would seem to be [TS]

  running and warm while in my bag [TS]

  charging so very obviously like a power [TS]

  nap related problem but I also as part [TS]

  of the attempts to diagnose this problem [TS]

  disable hibernation because what what [TS]

  any what every MacBook Pro does since [TS]

  the 2012 model is the the 2000 of retina [TS]

  model not the 2012 not retina because [TS]

  back then when they introduced a radical [TS]

  new design they [TS]

  also updated the previous design with [TS]

  the new components anyway since the 2012 [TS]

  retina MacBook Pro and forward one of [TS]

  the reasons why they now get such better [TS]

  standby battery life is that after a few [TS]

  hours of not being woken up if they're [TS]

  not plugged in they go into full [TS]

  hibernation which PC users have been [TS]

  familiar with for a long time which [TS]

  basically means they write the contents [TS]

  of RAM to a file on disk and fully [TS]

  turnoff then when you boot it up it has [TS]

  to like kind of wake up from that deep [TS]

  hibernation by reading that hyper file [TS]

  and back into RAM and that's why it [TS]

  takes a little bit longer you might see [TS]

  a little bit different progress bar when [TS]

  it boots up this is slow and crappy and [TS]

  if you are leaving your computer [TS]

  unplugged from battery for two weeks [TS]

  it's very helpful but if you plug it in [TS]

  like every day and you're leaving it [TS]

  closed for a few hours then this is very [TS]

  annoying and so I disabled that and by [TS]

  the way once you disable that you can [TS]

  also delete the hibernation file which [TS]

  can get you back in disc space the [TS]

  amount of RAM you have which is nice [TS]

  look up on every Mac forum since 2012 on [TS]

  how to do this since I disabled both [TS]

  power nap for the weird bugs and the [TS]

  hibernation with whatever like the [TS]

  pseudo PM set command us to do it it [TS]

  wakes up way faster from sleep like [TS]

  because what you're describing John that [TS]

  happens that's happened for to every [TS]

  MacBook Pro for quite a while I did [TS]

  notice during you know in my time using [TS]

  the touch bar versions that was always [TS]

  way worse on the touch bars so whatever [TS]

  it's doing waking up from sleep or [TS]

  hibernation or whatever it whatever it [TS]

  is something seems to be extra long or [TS]

  delayed or blocking or waiting for [TS]

  something on touch bar models that was [TS]

  worse when they first came out [TS]

  subsequent software improvements have [TS]

  dropped that delay somewhat but they [TS]

  still do it are you are you on icy air [TS]

  yet people just know what subsequent [TS]

  flyby oh okay I guess it's only bezels [TS]

  subsequent whatever yeah I know it's so [TS]

  ya know I don't think I don't think it's [TS]

  hibernation or power nap although I like [TS]

  I routinely do you say below as well for [TS]

  usually for this space reason it's like [TS]

  I've been doing that ever since you know [TS]

  ever since the RAM got so big that it [TS]

  started to eat a chunk eight but I come [TS]

  to think about maybe I didn't do that on [TS]

  my work back but I'm sure it's not [TS]

  hibernating like this is me like I close [TS]

  it and then 30 seconds later I open it [TS]

  like it hasn't gone into hibernation at [TS]

  that point right and it's not like this [TS]

  screen is inert when it's coming out of [TS]

  hibernation [TS]

  some things work and sometimes I think [TS]

  can bring an application to the front [TS]

  like before the beach ball appears but [TS]

  then eventually it stops responding [TS]

  power nap I haven't looked into is again [TS]

  like you know power nap should only [TS]

  happen like Oh your computer's been [TS]

  asleep for a while now it's going to [TS]

  check email or some crap or do local [TS]

  Time Machine snapshots and I'd haven't [TS]

  disabled that and I'm sure my computer [TS]

  is doing that if it would ever go to [TS]

  sleep I think I have it set never to [TS]

  sleep because it's plugged in and [TS]

  battery power but maybe there's some [TS]

  other weird interaction where a power [TS]

  nap is enabled at all it does some weird [TS]

  thing you just wake it up so I'll try [TS]

  both those things to get back to you but [TS]

  I don't like having to do this voodoo I [TS]

  like to just open the computer up and I [TS]

  mean the screen turns on immediately and [TS]

  it seems you know it seems like it's [TS]

  ready to go in terms of like the mouse [TS]

  cursor moves I could just it's it's like [TS]

  golf is a good walk spoiled like laptops [TS]

  are a good computer spoiled like just [TS]

  desktops they work fine you walk up to [TS]

  them you wiggle the mouse you hit the [TS]

  keyboard like you're there you just go [TS]

  and like computer like yes I'm here use [TS]

  me net ops like I don't know I don't [TS]

  know about that and that's what makes [TS]

  such I'd be worse is because your [TS]

  fingers there's like kind of left my [TS]

  finger should when should I put my [TS]

  finger down should I wait for the little [TS]

  animation on the touch bar saying touch [TS]

  ID here has it already authenticated me [TS]

  and I was waiting if that's often the [TS]

  case [TS]

  sometimes it's already authenticated I [TS]

  give up I take my finger off and I'm [TS]

  like come on computer what are you doing [TS]

  and then it unlocks like based on a [TS]

  finger that was laid on there like 15 [TS]

  seconds ago I don't like laptops you [TS]

  know you're right the Menai am in a car [TS]

  it'll pay in the passenger seat and I [TS]

  need to do a little bit of work I like [TS]

  bringing my iMac and my inverter you [TS]

  have nothing to be ashamed of nothing to [TS]

  apologize for side blew it oh my god [TS]

  when I'm on an airplane you know what [TS]

  the best way to use a computer on an [TS]

  airplane is 27-inch iMac hell yeah [TS]

  that's where I like to use my desktops [TS]

  what I'm learning over over time as I [TS]

  get old and and more like John is that [TS]

  like I would rather just not use a [TS]

  computer in a car and just wait till I [TS]

  get back to my listeners I uh I hope [TS]

  somebody out there is face I literally [TS]

  just face bombed I hope somebody else [TS]

  out there is facepalming as bad as I am [TS]

  because you guys man [TS]

  the combined age of the to you is [TS]

  approximately 134 years old [TS]

  actually the real answer I mean the [TS]

  thing that both DeMarco I think everyone [TS]

  agree on iOS devices like so they you [TS]

  don't have problems and iOS devices [TS]

  imagine if you took out your iOS device [TS]

  at like your iPad hit the power switch [TS]

  and had to wait the amount of time I [TS]

  have to wait to use my laptop it would [TS]

  be like is this thing broken right [TS]

  instantly like face ID touch ID it's [TS]

  like ready to go instantly immediately [TS]

  none of this whole like let me wake up [TS]

  and do whatever I'm doing and put a [TS]

  beach ball there's no place to put the [TS]

  beach planner but like if an iOS device [TS]

  does that it seems broken and you know [TS]

  it made more sense like well iOS devices [TS]

  you can only run one application at a [TS]

  time and they're highly optimized but at [TS]

  this point iOS devices have faster CPUs [TS]

  than Mac's are doing our multitasking or [TS]

  doing they're still RAM starved but [TS]

  they're they're full-fledged machines [TS]

  and it's just something something in the [TS]

  the remember when there was an effort a [TS]

  while back to I don't know [TS]

  if this was a public marketing effort or [TS]

  just something that people would say [TS]

  behind closed doors or whatever that [TS]

  trying to make the Mac experience like [TS]

  the iOS experience like when you just [TS]

  open it up and it's ready to go on stage [TS]

  wasn't it didn't Steve Jobs said at one [TS]

  point like the MacBook Air is like no it [TS]

  was base it was it was a story that had [TS]

  gotten at Apple that apparently Steve [TS]

  there was a famous meeting where Steve [TS]

  walked in and dropped a macbook air on [TS]

  the table and draw it in the head like [TS]

  and I met an iPad and turned the iPad on [TS]

  from sleep and just her comes on and [TS]

  he's let's demand Piquet or like why [TS]

  can't this do that something like that [TS]

  there you go yeah so who knows it was [TS]

  really not but but anyway that I I [TS]

  endorsed that idea the iOS devices feel [TS]

  so much better because there's so much [TS]

  crap that is just unacceptable on an iOS [TS]

  device and on the Mac we're still [TS]

  suffering under the burden of you know [TS]

  this older behavior that did I guess [TS]

  laptop users just live with and just [TS]

  think it's the price of using a laptop I [TS]

  don't like it well I mean you know the [TS]

  the the job that a laptop has to do is [TS]

  way more complicated like a lot of that [TS]

  like waking up from sleep delay as stuff [TS]

  like checking USB peripherals and you [TS]

  know stuff like that that I hadn't have [TS]

  to worry about but a lot of it is just [TS]

  like stuff they could get rid of it they [TS]

  if they really tried but you know the [TS]

  Mac is not in a position where it's [TS]

  getting a lot of effort for the most [TS]

  part it seems I thought that Mac's [TS]

  hibernated every time they went to sleep [TS]

  they just kept the memory powered on [TS]

  until that until the battery had dropped [TS]

  like [TS]

  or was that a dangerous level or [TS]

  something like that I thought they [TS]

  always wrote the contents of RAM to disk [TS]

  every single time I don't know that's [TS]

  not true [TS]

  again I've routinely disabled it um the [TS]

  laptops that are in my house just to [TS]

  save the disk space but if that's an [TS]

  also benefit I'll look into it I'll make [TS]

  sure it's off on my work loan and see [TS]

  how goes last bit of follow up dan leer [TS]

  writes in this is with regard to our [TS]

  Thanksgiving list from last episode [TS]

  nobody's thankful for the switch I'm [TS]

  surprised the switch didn't make [TS]

  anyone's list despite how much time [TS]

  you've talked about Zelda Mario Kart [TS]

  start a valley and playing with friends [TS]

  and family etc for me it was both an [TS]

  omission by accident and somewhat [TS]

  deliberately I still do use my switch [TS]

  from time to time I still well so some I [TS]

  think John put this in the show notes [TS]

  and he cut the key piece that which was [TS]

  I believe Dan had said basically is this [TS]

  because it was a fad or because you just [TS]

  don't or you just didn't think of it and [TS]

  for me it's kind of both right like I [TS]

  didn't think of it at the time but even [TS]

  if I had I don't know that I would have [TS]

  said it because I don't use my switch [TS]

  near as much as I did when I first got [TS]

  it and I do still like it and I'm glad I [TS]

  spent the money on it but it's very rare [TS]

  I find myself picking that up in the [TS]

  evenings but I've also been just super [TS]

  super busy for quite a long time now but [TS]

  you know when my my family gets together [TS]

  like well really Aaron's family a couple [TS]

  of my in-laws have have switches and so [TS]

  we've been you know generally speaking [TS]

  bringing them with us when we have a [TS]

  family function and we'll play like a [TS]

  couple rounds of Mario Kart or something [TS]

  like that so I am thankful for it I [TS]

  definitely like it but that is what is [TS]

  the top for etiquette that's my number 5 [TS]

  or tied for number 4 or is this my like [TS]

  my seventh place tie for number one I'm [TS]

  only your 17 honorable mentions that's [TS]

  what it is yeah it's one of my 17 [TS]

  honorable mentions that's right but what [TS]

  about the two of you guys I mean for me [TS]

  I I should have put the switch on my [TS]

  list and I I simply forgot about it [TS]

  while making that list which is funny [TS]

  because I played it like an hour before [TS]

  and played it again the next day so yeah [TS]

  the switch has been fantastic for me and [TS]

  you know as the audience knows I am not [TS]

  much of a gamer at all most of the time [TS]

  I usually into like [TS]

  game a year maybe I'll be into it for [TS]

  like a week or two and I'll stop and [TS]

  then that'll be it [TS]

  and because TIFF my wife is a gamer she [TS]

  we we usually have all or some of the [TS]

  current generation game consoles in the [TS]

  house ready to go and I just I hardly [TS]

  ever touch them because I just don't [TS]

  care that much the switch has changed [TS]

  that it's really good and I mean you [TS]

  know this isn't about a console this is [TS]

  about the games and just you know [TS]

  Nintendo was in such a bad place with [TS]

  the Wii U they were in such a rush to [TS]

  get this out that they didn't have time [TS]

  to mess it up with getting too far up [TS]

  their own butts about what they were [TS]

  gonna do about some gimmicky hardware [TS]

  thing they just made really great games [TS]

  for a really convenient system and [TS]

  there's no other gimmicks about it it's [TS]

  great it's just so great and in [TS]

  particular like you know TIFF and Adam [TS]

  really enjoyed zelda together [TS]

  I really enjoyed Mario Kart and Sonic [TS]

  mania [TS]

  we all have been really enjoying stardew [TS]

  valley it and there's and there's so [TS]

  many more games like i i've bought games [TS]

  on if i haven't even run yet just [TS]

  because I heard they were so great I [TS]

  bought them thinking I play them and I [TS]

  haven't even had times I haven't been [TS]

  too busy playing all the other great [TS]

  games like there's a surplus of amazing [TS]

  games for it that we haven't even had a [TS]

  chance to play hull of yet that's how [TS]

  many of the great games there are and so [TS]

  to have all this in a you know in a [TS]

  mid-priced system that's very practical [TS]

  to have in your life because it can be [TS]

  both portable and stationary although [TS]

  honestly I don't like the portable [TS]

  version of because the screen is too [TS]

  small and and the controllers are too [TS]

  skinny in and they give my own problems [TS]

  with the portable thing you don't say [TS]

  yeah and the input devices surprise [TS]

  marca the jokes right themselves and [TS]

  also I honestly had an HDMI port I need [TS]

  to start a holiday party [TS]

  but plainly just playing it as a home [TS]

  console for me like it's just it's just [TS]

  great it's such a great system with such [TS]

  great games the switch I am happier with [TS]

  the switch then any video game or video [TS]

  game system [TS]

  at least in the last decade did you like [TS]

  your Sega consoles more um yeah but [TS]

  those were more than you know at my one [TS]

  to say a console my Genesis but that was [TS]

  a long time ago when Genesis was current [TS]

  which was in like 1993 totally no no I'm [TS]

  not trying to mess with you I'm saying [TS]

  you know to the best that you can [TS]

  remember how you felt when you were 11 [TS]

  do you feel like the Genesis provided [TS]

  you more joy than the switch does and [TS]

  obviously that's a tough question [TS]

  because you're a very different person [TS]

  now but if you had to choose only one [TS]

  you know in in in their current time so [TS]

  I'm not asking you to choose the Genesis [TS]

  over the switch today you know what what [TS]

  would what do you think you would do I I [TS]

  need another year with the switch to [TS]

  really know it's a little too early so [TS]

  far I think they're probably pretty [TS]

  close to each other and in that way like [TS]

  it's just so damn good and and honestly [TS]

  like I've had an xbox like the first one [TS]

  I was in say an Xbox one but that's [TS]

  something else now so I had the first [TS]

  Xbox which I got pre modded with a mod [TS]

  chip so I could like rib games onto the [TS]

  hard drive and install XBMC which is now [TS]

  Plex that's kind of where it all started [TS]

  and so like you know so I had that I had [TS]

  a Wii the first we not the stupid you [TS]

  sorry Joan I had the ps3 and four and a [TS]

  360 and I had a lot of fun with some of [TS]

  those but none of them were as good as a [TS]

  switch just you know game library wise [TS]

  so I'm very I'm very much enjoying this [TS]

  and anybody who used to have fun with [TS]

  games but it's maybe fallen out of it [TS]

  like I did give the switch a try it's [TS]

  really fun John I totally forgot about [TS]

  the switch but if I had remembered it I [TS]

  wouldn't have listed the switch for [TS]

  actually for a lot of the same reasons [TS]

  Marko mentioned because I'd never used [TS]

  it in portable what if I can help it [TS]

  because it's not ergonomically just [TS]

  doesn't fit me organ Amma Klee I never [TS]

  take the little joy cones off of it I [TS]

  just leave it on there I only use the [TS]

  pro controller with it I only hook up [TS]

  the TV mmm [TS]

  and in that you know in that way as a [TS]

  console I don't think it's a like it's [TS]

  not it's not my favorite I wouldn't have [TS]

  listed it as a thing that I'm thankful [TS]

  for because I think the pro controller [TS]

  is not a [TS]

  good as the GameCube controller or maybe [TS]

  not even as good as the Wii U pro [TS]

  controller and the fact that it's this [TS]

  weird portable thing that I have to put [TS]

  into a dock and hook up to my TV and it [TS]

  just doesn't you know it's compromised [TS]

  by the fact that it needs to be portable [TS]

  I wish it was more powerful blah blah [TS]

  all my complaints typically intended [TS]

  consoles so if I listed something what I [TS]

  would listed is the games and [TS]

  specifically I would it was Elda which [TS]

  for me is head and shoulders like the [TS]

  other games it great like I love them [TS]

  but Zelda is the most important Nintendo [TS]

  franchise for me and this was a very [TS]

  significant Zelda game breaking with the [TS]

  past and lots of very interesting ways [TS]

  and I just thought it was an amazing [TS]

  game probably still not my favorite [TS]

  Zelda blog people ask me that you know [TS]

  as much as I love it and you know does [TS]

  so many things so much better than every [TS]

  other Zelda has ever done them it falls [TS]

  down in a couple areas but that's what I [TS]

  would elicit I will elicit breath of the [TS]

  world as the thing that I should have [TS]

  been thinking more I just they just [TS]

  slipped my mind it's funny to me that [TS]

  you guys are lamenting the portability [TS]

  of it because holy smokes like some of [TS]

  the almost all of the fun I've had with [TS]

  the switch is because I've been in some [TS]

  sort of group setting like some of the [TS]

  most fun times I've had with the switch [TS]

  has been the handful times that we [TS]

  played Mario Kart together at work we'd [TS]

  all got to gather around like at a few [TS]

  tables or something and and sit there in [TS]

  play Mario Kart against each other and [TS]

  it's like you know all the all the great [TS]

  parts about a LAN party back in the day [TS]

  where you can shout and yell at your [TS]

  friends and you know in in in call them [TS]

  terrible names and whatnot because [TS]

  they're sitting right next to you and [TS]

  you can do all of that without having to [TS]

  in here I'm telling you how old I am [TS]

  without having to log like a 50 pound [TS]

  CRT no so so I'm not trying to say [TS]

  you're wrong I'm really honestly not I'm [TS]

  just saying I'm surprised that you guys [TS]

  don't really favor the portability at [TS]

  all because that is like I said you [TS]

  about my family and and and certainly it [TS]

  work from time to time daddy and even at [TS]

  WDC I organized on beacon I think it was [TS]

  I organized like a little get-together [TS]

  for playing Mario Kart and to me those [TS]

  are such fun times and they really [TS]

  define the switch to me in a way that [TS]

  no other console I've had has really [TS]

  worked and everyone's allowed their own [TS]

  experience I'm just super surprised I [TS]

  mean I would love the portability to be [TS]

  to work out better and more often for me [TS]

  and I think ease maybe like I'll take it [TS]

  to like you know if I know would be like [TS]

  sitting in a doctor's office waiting [TS]

  room for a little while like I'll take [TS]

  it sometimes but it's just like using [TS]

  the joy cons is just very uncomfortable [TS]

  for me there there clearly made for much [TS]

  smaller hand with it so it's probably [TS]

  made for like children and teenagers to [TS]

  be able to comfortably use and I just I [TS]

  can't like it hurts my hands to use it [TS]

  for more than a few minutes and I also [TS]

  like because I'm also accustomed to [TS]

  playing on a giant nice OLED TV with [TS]

  like you know speakers and everything [TS]

  sitting on the couch with the pro [TS]

  controller the portable experience is [TS]

  like the screen is noticeably crappy or [TS]

  you know I don't get my wonderful oled [TS]

  black levels it's it's a very very small [TS]

  screen for old people like me and John [TS]

  and people with broken eyes like you [TS]

  like it is a it's a really small screen [TS]

  compared to it most modern TVs and so to [TS]

  me like it just doesn't it doesn't work [TS]

  as well in portable mode and I'm like [TS]

  I'm probably the only person in the [TS]

  world like and normally mint endows [TS]

  portable consoles they eventually get [TS]

  like you know mini version they're new [TS]

  versions I'm the only person I think in [TS]

  the world wanting the switch XL to [TS]

  actually basically get really fat like I [TS]

  want like I want to switch that doesn't [TS]

  have detachable controllers that [TS]

  basically has controller wings that are [TS]

  approximately the shape of a pro [TS]

  controller and and the whole thing gets [TS]

  bigger to accommodate a screen closer to [TS]

  maybe an iPad Mini size like that's what [TS]

  I would like I don't think they're going [TS]

  to make that because no one else wants [TS]

  that except me and maybe John but [TS]

  ultimately the the portability it just [TS]

  it's too small to be comfortable for me [TS]

  I don't want it to be thicker I want it [TS]

  to be a Gamecube to be a non portable [TS]

  console without a screen on it that's [TS]

  like four times as powerful but again [TS]

  that's not what people want the main [TS]

  appeal the switch to be clear for most [TS]

  people is exactly what you said Casey [TS]

  hey it's the same game portable and on [TS]

  your TV and it works great in both [TS]

  places that is the main appeal but Marco [TS]

  and I just happened to be oddballs both [TS]

  in the camp where we want to play it [TS]

  sitting on our couch [TS]

  that's that and we're happy with it [TS]

  they're like it's not like I have come [TS]

  you know my complaint is it's not [TS]

  powerful enough and it's compromised [TS]

  that but I'm you know I enjoy the games [TS]

  like breath of the wild was an amazing [TS]

  game especially given the power of the [TS]

  console we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  ero finally Wi-Fi that works go to ero [TS]

  calm and use promo code ATP at checkout [TS]

  to make overnight shipping free to the [TS]

  US and Canada Wi-Fi has always had two [TS]

  problems for most people one it doesn't [TS]

  reach your whole house there's always [TS]

  like weak zones or dead zones or it [TS]

  doesn't reach the back room and two it's [TS]

  usually really hard to set up especially [TS]

  for non-technical people euro solves [TS]

  both of these problems so number one [TS]

  they know as we do that no matter how [TS]

  many antennas you stick on top of a [TS]

  router [TS]

  it's never gonna cover your entire house [TS]

  perfectly you need multiple access [TS]

  points needs to be broadcasting that [TS]

  signal from multiple different little [TS]

  boxes around your house not just one [TS]

  somewhere like in the basement or in the [TS]

  middle somewhere [TS]

  Eero solves that problem perfectly by [TS]

  having multiple radios so they have two [TS]

  different models they have the standard [TS]

  ero base station and this is now the [TS]

  second-generation one it has a much [TS]

  faster radio much faster throughput and [TS]

  they also now have these little beacons [TS]

  that you can plug in at different points [TS]

  around the house to help broadcast more [TS]

  Wi-Fi signal that beacons are these [TS]

  little flush things they sit flush [TS]

  against the wall just in an outlet it [TS]

  looks kind of like a big nightlight and [TS]

  in fact they even built in a nightlight [TS]

  just to help you have make it look a [TS]

  little more useful and you can plug them [TS]

  in anywhere everything is now faster or [TS]

  longer range better performance so they [TS]

  solve the coverage problem better than [TS]

  anything else I've seen and then they [TS]

  also solve the ease-of-use problem also [TS]

  better than anything else I've ever seen [TS]

  this is one area you know if you're a [TS]

  nerd and you've used multiple access [TS]

  point Wi-Fi systems before like I have [TS]

  you will be shocked how easy [TS]

  Eero is to set up it is really quite [TS]

  something else to see and it's so easy I [TS]

  can easily recommend it to any kind of [TS]

  non-technical friends or family you [TS]

  might have if you if you need to help [TS]

  them with their Wi-Fi this year [TS]

  check out euro you will be shocked how [TS]

  easy it is and the performance is [TS]

  wonderful [TS]

  especially with this new [TS]

  second-generation hardware the new [TS]

  beacons are small discreet and very very [TS]

  flexible you can put them pretty much [TS]

  anywhere and they have the nightlight [TS]

  built in check it out today go to [TS]

  eurocom as eer Oh calm and use Pro [TS]

  code ATP at checkout to get free [TS]

  overnight shipping to the US and Canada [TS]

  thank you so much to ero for sponsoring [TS]

  our show we should move on to ask ATP [TS]

  and conveniently we have a switch [TS]

  related question star susumi writes have [TS]

  you guys played Super Mario artists [TS]

  Odyssey how do you think about it yeah [TS]

  what do you think of it and I have not [TS]

  in that's a no small part because I [TS]

  haven't really touched my switch very [TS]

  much recently [TS]

  but let's start with Marco Marco have [TS]

  you played Super Mario Odyssey not yet [TS]

  I'm still spending all my switch time [TS]

  when starting a valley and behind that I [TS]

  also have like the the Mario Rabbids [TS]

  game and I still have to finish the last [TS]

  few zones of Sonic mania and it's it's [TS]

  so many games I can't keep up but I'm [TS]

  also I'm a little bit concerned that it [TS]

  might not like Mario Odyssey because [TS]

  people are saying it's almost like a [TS]

  cross between Mario 64 and Zelda that is [TS]

  not true ok because I I didn't I never [TS]

  liked the way the Mario series went 3d [TS]

  very much like it was really cool at a [TS]

  time like before mario 64 but like i [TS]

  always like the 2d ones a lot better and [TS]

  Zelda's not really my kind of game like [TS]

  the kind of you know big adventure RPG [TS]

  kind of thing so John should I be [TS]

  playing Mario Odyssey if you don't like [TS]

  3d marios super ioz is a 3d Mario I like [TS]

  3d Mario so I like Super Mario de si and [TS]

  in the pantheon of 3d marios know where [TS]

  I'd put it like I really like galaxy as [TS]

  well galaxy was very different and had I [TS]

  think more of a twist on the typical [TS]

  Mario formula even if it was more [TS]

  constrained but I like being on little [TS]

  planets and doing stuff and mera I see [TS]

  is a little bit more of return to [TS]

  conventions of well it's just regular 3d [TS]

  Mario with a little bit more open world [TS]

  but Super Mario sea is so unashamedly [TS]

  wacky in some ways I feel like it is [TS]

  it's sillier than I want it to be like I [TS]

  take matters more seriously than this [TS]

  game does but in other ways it's [TS]

  highlighted to me exactly how much how [TS]

  much more I like some of the other [TS]

  franchises like Zelda is my number one [TS]

  and I think even Metroid has been [TS]

  elevated to potentially the other [TS]

  franchise that I'm more excited about [TS]

  but as far as Mario games go if you like [TS]

  3d Mario games you like this for marco [TS]

  maybe something that will keep him [TS]

  interested in as they do [TS]

  have tons of nostalgic pandering to the [TS]

  people who are fans of 2d Mario but I [TS]

  don't if you really don't like 3d Mario [TS]

  I'm not sure that'll be enough to keep [TS]

  you interesting but I would say just [TS]

  like I was like play it like and let you [TS]

  know let Adam play it and just watch [TS]

  like it's it's just such a fun game it's [TS]

  it's so unashamed to say there's no [TS]

  rhyme or reason why this is here it's [TS]

  just because it's fun and there's lots [TS]

  of fun things to do and explore and play [TS]

  with and you can kind of go at your own [TS]

  pace and it's very very gentle and it's [TS]

  not particularly punishing except for a [TS]

  couple of checkpoints that are a little [TS]

  farther back than I would want them to [TS]

  be so I say you should definitely get it [TS]

  because I think your family as a whole [TS]

  have fun with it whether you will spend [TS]

  more than a little time with it or not [TS]

  all right [TS]

  MZ writes do you use robotic vacuum [TS]

  cleaners if yes what brands in UK use [TS]

  cases work for you and if not why I have [TS]

  never owned a Roomba or anything like it [TS]

  I would guess that if I were to get one [TS]

  I would get a Roomba because marketing [TS]

  it I've never used one and have never [TS]

  really felt a need for it I have [TS]

  experience with rumbas here and there [TS]

  but not a lot of experience and and none [TS]

  of it that was so compelling that I [TS]

  thought I must have one of these I don't [TS]

  know if they've gotten better [TS]

  you know meaningfully since then but the [TS]

  limitations they had back then were [TS]

  basically like you know they couldn't [TS]

  they would they wouldn't really get [TS]

  everywhere they wouldn't really be able [TS]

  to go on all surfaces and rugs and [TS]

  everything they would occasionally get [TS]

  stuck and complain and some kind of [TS]

  happy song I know at least the newer [TS]

  ones will like go back to their base and [TS]

  charge themselves which is nice but it [TS]

  just seems like a lot of trouble and [TS]

  noise and expense and hassle and one [TS]

  more electronic thing to manage to solve [TS]

  a problem partway and and it's like well [TS]

  you still have to vacuum if it can't do [TS]

  the whole house effectively so I'm not [TS]

  it maybe these things are better than I [TS]

  remember them or maybe they've gotten [TS]

  better but my limited experience with [TS]

  them is not compelling I've never had [TS]

  one and I've never thought about buying [TS]

  one just because it just doesn't seem [TS]

  like it can do the job I mean you could [TS]

  see how big their I'd like these little [TS]

  pucks I've got more crap in my house [TS]

  than fits in there I see how much is [TS]

  clear the clear bagless container of my [TS]

  thing when I actually vacuum you know [TS]

  the entire first floor of the house [TS]

  that's not gonna fit in there rumba [TS]

  rumba can't empty itself and so yeah it [TS]

  just seems like it may it looks like a [TS]

  fun novelty and if you have them just [TS]

  sort of let you go longer between [TS]

  actually vacuuming I can see that or if [TS]

  you have a house where you don't have [TS]

  pets that are going to attack it and or [TS]

  feel attacked by it which is another [TS]

  factor and having an autonomous thing [TS]

  wandering around your house but nope [TS]

  never tried I put this question there [TS]

  just because I thought maybe Marco might [TS]

  have it now that he's got all those [TS]

  little like a light switch clappers and [TS]

  all his other home automation stuff but [TS]

  I guess clapper still yeah you're still [TS]

  resisting the robot invasion of our [TS]

  homes all right and finally this is for [TS]

  marco eric new rights what fraction of [TS]

  total audio gets cut by marco for the [TS]

  finished podcast so i will say to set [TS]

  you up marco that we record at about [TS]

  nine o'clock in the evening our time and [TS]

  typically and between 11:45 and midnight [TS]

  and and we are recording pretty much [TS]

  that entire time now that may or may not [TS]

  be us acting like we're recording if [TS]

  that makes any sense like we may be kind [TS]

  of a little more casual and not really [TS]

  expect some of that to go in the show [TS]

  but you know I give Marco an mp3 each [TS]

  and every week that's roughly two and a [TS]

  half to three hours long and you know [TS]

  the released episodes are anywhere from [TS]

  an hour and a half to like two hours [TS]

  usually yeah it's more like than 1:45 to [TS]

  2:15 yeah but that's the simple answer [TS]

  so Marco what's the real answer I mean [TS]

  it's you know basically if you figure [TS]

  out from what you said like you know we [TS]

  do usually record for about two and a [TS]

  half hours the finished episode has six [TS]

  minutes of ads plus the theme song which [TS]

  is about a minute long so you figure I [TS]

  have about seven minutes of added [TS]

  content that isn't part of the live [TS]

  recording and a two and a half hour show [TS]

  so that's about two hours and 37 minutes [TS]

  of total content before cutting and then [TS]

  the show is about you know 1:45 to 2:15 [TS]

  so you figure I'm cutting you know maybe [TS]

  20 minutes now that's not like an even [TS]

  20 or 30 minutes to throughout the show [TS]

  that I'm cutting it's mostly like [TS]

  cutting the first like two or three [TS]

  minutes of the call where we're just [TS]

  like setting up you know [TS]

  hey John here you know his Casey here [TS]

  what do you know setting up like this [TS]

  crap that nobody ever wants to hear [TS]

  about and then after we have decided [TS]

  we're done recording we're talking about [TS]

  oh let's pick some titles and then maybe [TS]

  tell the live listeners oh oh next week [TS]

  we're gonna you know we're gonna be [TS]

  recording on Tuesday and said Wednesday [TS]

  so like you know bookkeeping at the end [TS]

  of the show or just kind of like you [TS]

  know kind of like casual talking at the [TS]

  end but it's not good enough to be in [TS]

  the show that's what most of the cutting [TS]

  actually is is the beginning and the end [TS]

  and don't worry you're not missing much [TS]

  I cut it because it isn't very [TS]

  interesting it's you know the release [TS]

  version of the show contains almost [TS]

  everything that we actually say that is [TS]

  actually part of the the show as we hear [TS]

  it live know almost everything that's in [TS]

  the shows in the show is what he's [TS]

  trying to say yeah and if it's a show [TS]

  where John talks a lot a lot less is cut [TS]

  if it's a show where I talk a lot a lot [TS]

  more is cut man you can always fix it in [TS]

  post right and I do moving on so there's [TS]

  a little bit of a kerfuffle earlier this [TS]

  week we're recording this on Wednesday [TS]

  evening and and there has just been [TS]

  released a patch for a rather unique bug [TS]

  that has sprung up in High Sierra and I [TS]

  never actually tried it but my [TS]

  understanding is if you go into system [TS]

  preferences and I think into security [TS]

  and then you click the lock and hit [TS]

  enter and then enter the username root [TS]

  and an empty password and try that and [TS]

  you know you might have to do this dance [TS]

  a little bit but eventually you will get [TS]

  to the point that suddenly you have set [TS]

  the root password on that High Sierra [TS]

  installed for Macintosh and that is a [TS]

  problem because if you're not familiar [TS]

  root is basically the god account on any [TS]

  UNIX based system and so if you can [TS]

  finagle root access to a computer then a [TS]

  Mac I should say then you basically can [TS]

  do anything you want and this is a bit [TS]

  of an issue and there are a little bit [TS]

  you know I think most people have a [TS]

  little bit of a problem with the way in [TS]

  which it was publicized which was via [TS]

  tweet which is not tear [TS]

  I believe responsible but we don't know [TS]

  what happened before then maybe it was [TS]

  responsibly disclosed somebody then [TS]

  eventually had discovered that about a [TS]

  two weeks ago this was posted in Apple's [TS]

  own developer forums which is kind of [TS]

  amusing and Patrick Warhol has done a [TS]

  deep dive into why they think this [TS]

  happened but that's kind of the setup [TS]

  John I presume you particularly have [TS]

  many thoughts on this so do you want to [TS]

  kind of fill in some of the blanks here [TS]

  by the time you hear this this will have [TS]

  all been solved for everybody because it [TS]

  was about like a day day and a half [TS]

  between when this was a widely [TS]

  publicized on Twitter and when Apple put [TS]

  out the fix for it and not only his [TS]

  Apple put out the fix like if you have [TS]

  high sierra and you go to software [TS]

  update you can get to fix but they will [TS]

  start they say starting later today in [TS]

  their message which means they probably [TS]

  already have done this they're going to [TS]

  forcibly push this fix out to everybody [TS]

  running high sierra like you won't have [TS]

  to run software update you won't have to [TS]

  check for updates you won't have to [TS]

  click a button it will just go out and [TS]

  you don't need to reboot either will [TS]

  just go out onto your computer and [TS]

  that's the mechanism apple's used a [TS]

  couple times in the past i think the [TS]

  only one that i could remember and I [TS]

  think when the dates no if you remember [TS]

  as well is the NTP bug but they're the [TS]

  time server thing they also pushed out [TS]

  but they have it's I'm assuming it's [TS]

  either the same exact or very similar to [TS]

  the mechanism they have for pushing out [TS]

  updates to malware which they also do [TS]

  without you having to do anything behind [TS]

  the scenes without any other updates [TS]

  like they will push the malware updates [TS]

  and I have no idea when those are [TS]

  happening because who would know I guess [TS]

  you could just if the malware definition [TS]

  file and see when it changes but anyway [TS]

  if you're listening to this now and [TS]

  you're using a Mac with High Sierra and [TS]

  you're connected to the network this [TS]

  problem should be solved for you unless [TS]

  of course the fix causes problems which [TS]

  for some people it has apparently it's [TS]

  possible for the fix itself which was [TS]

  rolled out in a day to cause problems [TS]

  with doing file sharing and there's a [TS]

  fix for the fix which Apple also has a [TS]

  tech note for that you can run some [TS]

  other command and that will fix their [TS]

  fix which is why usually fixes don't [TS]

  come out 24 hours after a problem was [TS]

  discovered [TS]

  the root cause stuff is interesting it's [TS]

  difficult the the the thing that Patrick [TS]

  Ward wrote wrote up because he doesn't [TS]

  have the source code to all parts of the [TS]

  operating system so he's like [TS]

  disassembling it which is a heroic [TS]

  effort you know disassemble often [TS]

  without any symbols to try to figure out [TS]

  what Beck is going on that has the [TS]

  updated that's right I don't know but [TS]

  anyway what it looked like when I read [TS]

  this post earlier today was that it was [TS]

  the programmer making a classic mistake [TS]

  of getting confused about what the [TS]

  return value means from a function [TS]

  there's multiple schools of thought and [TS]

  multiple cultures on what return values [TS]

  mean in terms of what indicates success [TS]

  or failure the sort of UNIX system call [TS]

  kind of way is zero indicate success in [TS]

  anything it's not zero indicate some [TS]

  form of failure but they're also Hall [TS]

  there's wasup all their api's in other [TS]

  domains where a true value or one or [TS]

  some boolean or something like that and [TS]

  to get success and a false value or a [TS]

  zero or undefined or whatever means [TS]

  failure and those out those conventions [TS]

  the opposite of each other and it can be [TS]

  very easy when you're programming [TS]

  confused about which is which especially [TS]

  if you're in some kind of domain like [TS]

  your own code that you wrote where [TS]

  you're not sure what convention it's [TS]

  following or whatever and if you get [TS]

  that return value wrong then you may [TS]

  proceed as if something has failed and [TS]

  it succeeded or vice versa and you can [TS]

  read the the root cause it's you know [TS]

  it's a it's a series of things that stem [TS]

  from that where you know max come by [TS]

  default with the root account disabled [TS]

  and this thing accidentally enables it [TS]

  and it enables it and sets the password [TS]

  to whatever you wrote in a text box [TS]

  which is an empty string and then from [TS]

  that point on if you try to log in again [TS]

  with the empty string it succeeds the [TS]

  second time because the first time it [TS]

  enabled both enabled the account is set [TS]

  at empty string it's just you know [TS]

  typical with these type of bugs lots of [TS]

  things have to go wrong for it to to [TS]

  fall down but I'm assuming the fix was [TS]

  fairly straightforward but apparently [TS]

  not because it worked everyone's file [TS]

  sharing who knows maybe it had to do [TS]

  with applying effects without restarting [TS]

  which is not something that normally [TS]

  happens with security updates or maybe [TS]

  it does I don't know I don't keep track [TS]

  of like when you get a security update [TS]

  and a software update does it require [TS]

  restart all the time not all the time [TS]

  yeah maybe not for all them I guess it [TS]

  depends on what it's patching if you can [TS]

  just kill a patch a demon and then kill [TS]

  it and though [TS]

  it and though [TS]

  in itself anyway this is a bad one this [TS]

  is pretty much as bad as a local exploit [TS]

  can get and it was it was a local [TS]

  exploit that was remote a bowl because [TS]

  if you have screen sharing enabled like [TS]

  the local exploit suddenly becomes a [TS]

  remote because the exploit itself is [TS]

  that it allows you to log in as root [TS]

  with no password if the root account is [TS]

  disabled I also believe that the fix [TS]

  they push out disables the root account [TS]

  again and maybe they had to do that just [TS]

  because they're afraid everyone enabled [TS]

  it it do is you know by the way the [TS]

  workaround for this was oh and abled the [TS]

  root count and actually settle a jetpack [TS]

  which is why I thought I'm totally [TS]

  invulnerable not the least of which [TS]

  because I'm running elcapitan but anyway [TS]

  I always I always enabled the root [TS]

  account on all my Macs and I always set [TS]

  a password on it you know because I used [TS]

  the root account to do a unity stuff so [TS]

  even though max ship with the root [TS]

  account disabled one of the first things [TS]

  that do is enable it and set a password [TS]

  and do all that stuff so I thought I [TS]

  didn't have to worry about but actually [TS]

  checks my wife's computer and for [TS]

  whatever reason I guess it's because [TS]

  when we got it as a new computer I never [TS]

  did any of the unity stuff over on it [TS]

  she did have the really can't disable [TS]

  Dom anyway this update the fix will [TS]

  reduce able the root account so if you [TS]

  don't want through it he can't disable [TS]

  to re-enable it set a strong password on [TS]

  it and you'll be back so yeah this is a [TS]

  bad one [TS]

  and because this is a fairly terrible [TS]

  error and a one day 24 hour turnaround [TS]

  time of the fix and also some other [TS]

  things lots of people are attaching [TS]

  various levels significance to this [TS]

  there's a lot of threads going around [TS]

  revisiting you know apples quality [TS]

  control as is it going downhill this [TS]

  never would happen if Steve was alive [TS]

  blah blah blah [TS]

  I guess we can talk about that a little [TS]

  bit but the one thing that's brought to [TS]

  mind immediately and I didn't spend much [TS]

  time googling this tomato miss [TS]

  remembering it but almost this exact [TS]

  same bug was on the Mac back in the days [TS]

  when Steve was running the show and I [TS]

  believe it was like on the lockscreen [TS]

  like on your laptop or your desktop [TS]

  where you get the screen lock and says [TS]

  enter your password to unlock the screen [TS]

  and all you needed to do was type a [TS]

  whole bunch of characters in the in the [TS]

  password field until it like overflowed [TS]

  some buffer and cause the screensaver to [TS]

  crash unlock the screen for you [TS]

  hold down I think you could even hold [TS]

  down the return key and it would still [TS]

  do the same thing I forget I may be [TS]

  misremembering maybe people can tell me [TS]

  if I'm mr. Mario but um that's the thing [TS]

  with security it doesn't you know it [TS]

  doesn't matter how silly the mistake is [TS]

  silly the programming mistake is right [TS]

  if it's in just the wrong place it your [TS]

  whole security edifice falls down so I [TS]

  actually don't think this security error [TS]

  is indicative of any larger problem it [TS]

  is just one more like this specific one [TS]

  I think it is just one more pebble on [TS]

  the pile and what we should be doing is [TS]

  counting the pebbles not saying this one [TS]

  pebble because there's one pebble exist [TS]

  it means therefore this is the world's [TS]

  biggest problem the real problem is how [TS]

  many pebble or is are there and is the [TS]

  pile getting smaller or bigger over time [TS]

  that's what people need to talk about [TS]

  and I suppose this pebble is a little [TS]

  bit bigger than normal but it was also [TS]

  fixed much quicker than normal and it's [TS]

  kind of understandable I don't know [TS]

  anyway the question that most piqued my [TS]

  interest that I saw come up about this I [TS]

  forget if it was in a slack or untoward [TS]

  or whatever but I want to ask you to see [TS]

  what you think is someone was asking is [TS]

  this a fireable offense and if so who [TS]

  should be fired I don't I mean if it was [TS]

  put there intentionally sure yeah it was [TS]

  like you know is the NSA paid some [TS]

  Engineer to go inject a weakness sure [TS]

  but that was probably not what happened [TS]

  here like this the nature of this bug [TS]

  from some little we know about it from [TS]

  mostly thing that disassembly the it [TS]

  doesn't seem like it's that kind of bug [TS]

  this unless it was intentionally done I [TS]

  would say no this is not a fireable [TS]

  offense it you know this is software [TS]

  people make mistakes all the time [TS]

  this really honestly could have been a [TS]

  single line of code mistake and if [TS]

  that's all it was then it's just part of [TS]

  doing the job and and for the record [TS]

  John I'm with you like you know people [TS]

  look at me to amplify a lot of Apple [TS]

  regs these days because I do that [TS]

  sometimes but I don't think this is [TS]

  alone you know in isolation I'm not [TS]

  freaked out about this like yeah it's a [TS]

  bad security bug it got fixed that's [TS]

  what's supposed to happen any OS even [TS]

  i OS raffle puts all their resources you [TS]

  know any OS has occasional security bugs [TS]

  of this magnitude and if if it's being [TS]

  properly cared for they get fixed simple [TS]

  as that [TS]

  that's the nature of very very complex [TS]

  modern software you're gonna have [TS]

  problems as long as they get fixed [TS]

  everything's working you know as as it [TS]

  always does [TS]

  so this particular bug I don't think as [TS]

  a sign of anything big I think it was [TS]

  handled as well as it could have been [TS]

  handled although it is a little worrying [TS]

  how long ago people are talking about on [TS]

  the forums and nobody seemed to notice [TS]

  but you know it security bugs like that [TS]

  like who knows if the right people saw [TS]

  that either like people report random [TS]

  bugs all the time and random odd [TS]

  behavior on forums all the time but [TS]

  people also report so much garbage on [TS]

  forums that nobody can keep up with [TS]

  everything that's posted and who knows [TS]

  like if somebody is describing you know [TS]

  like on the forums like if you read the [TS]

  post that we're allegedly describing [TS]

  this problem like if you're some Apple [TS]

  employee who's just skimming through [TS]

  these posts like you don't know what the [TS]

  conditions were on that person's machine [TS]

  like maybe something weird was going on [TS]

  with their software and some other wit [TS]

  like maybe it wasn't your bug [TS]

  necessarily so like it's hard to know [TS]

  when you're just skimming through forum [TS]

  posts what's what people are she talking [TS]

  about and if this is a real issue that [TS]

  you need to worry about if it's your bug [TS]

  or if it's just like some weird thing [TS]

  that they did or that they're they're [TS]

  recalling badly or describing badly and [TS]

  you know so like I don't see anything [TS]

  about this bug that is caused for [TS]

  massive concern on any kind of real [TS]

  scale I see lots of other ways for [TS]

  concern for Apple but but this is not [TS]

  one of those things and to go back to [TS]

  the actual question you asked once again [TS]

  to summarize know this would not be as [TS]

  long as it was done unintentionally this [TS]

  is not a fireable offense this is just [TS]

  developing software yeah yeah I agree I [TS]

  don't think this is fireable unless it [TS]

  was a deliberate backdoor and I I don't [TS]

  think that it was and there's I've seen [TS]

  some people that are really up in arms [TS]

  about the fact that on Apple's own dev [TS]

  forums this was reported and nobody [TS]

  noticed not you know I was you know [TS]

  cracking wise about it earlier but the [TS]

  reality the situation is like look at [TS]

  radar so as much as I also crack wise [TS]

  and lament radar that is a a [TS]

  never-ending [TS]

  a tidal wave of new information that [TS]

  Apple as a company needs to sort through [TS]

  and if you look at radar which has a [TS]

  fairly high in my opinion cost of entry [TS]

  in terms of like who's really gonna file [TS]

  a radar not any normal Schmo it's gonna [TS]

  be a super nerd developer who actually [TS]

  is silly enough to spend the time doing [TS]

  it so you think about this insert just [TS]

  insurmountable wave of information [TS]

  coming off radar [TS]

  which is Apple's internal bug well the [TS]

  internal / external bug reporting tool [TS]

  and then amplify that like by several [TS]

  orders of magnitude and that's that's a [TS]

  forum so there is no way that anyone [TS]

  well I can't imagine anyone's cruising [TS]

  the forums looking for reports of [TS]

  security vulnerabilities like that's [TS]

  just not a thing so as much as I joke [TS]

  about how it was reported on Apple's own [TS]

  forums and they should have noticed like [TS]

  no they shouldn't have and and they've [TS]

  turned around to fix as quickly as [TS]

  possible I wish they Qaid the fix a [TS]

  little better because up until a few [TS]

  minutes ago and one of you mentioned it [TS]

  I didn't even realize the fix needed a [TS]

  fix but you know they're trying to do [TS]

  right by everyone and trying to get this [TS]

  right as quickly as possible and I think [TS]

  to my eyes and maybe it's easy for me to [TS]

  say this because I'm hugely biased as a [TS]

  developer but I feel like yes the root [TS]

  cause of this was a developer making an [TS]

  oops but this to me is more I'm more [TS]

  alarmed by the QA process than I am the [TS]

  developer that made the UPS because this [TS]

  seems like the sort of thing that I feel [TS]

  like it should have been caught in in [TS]

  Quality Assurance and clearly it wasn't [TS]

  and and that that's the thing that [TS]

  scares me a little bit but somewhere [TS]

  they hiss they made a statement to [TS]

  several outlets including I'm or and I [TS]

  don't have it in front of me but they [TS]

  basically said that they're going to [TS]

  provide a write-up of what happened is [TS]

  that right what do you know what I'm [TS]

  talking about they said they were gonna [TS]

  do basically a post-mortem and and talk [TS]

  about it if I'm not mistaken I had the [TS]

  Apple statement in the notes but it [TS]

  doesn't say anything about that we are [TS]

  auditing our development process to [TS]

  Oprah helped prevent this from happening [TS]

  ever again I could have sworn they said [TS]

  they were going to talk about it [TS]

  publicly but I guess not I think they [TS]

  just did that's probably the extent that [TS]

  we were going to hear about it but but [TS]

  you know honestly I [TS]

  like unless it was intentional sabotage [TS]

  I don't think the cause for this is [TS]

  going to be very interesting it's just [TS]

  yeah somebody messed up it could like [TS]

  you know it you know like the goto fail [TS]

  bug from a couple years back that was [TS]

  most likely a random copy and paste or [TS]

  like you know a bad merge like it's [TS]

  possible that somebody you know [TS]

  maliciously put that there - you know [TS]

  for NSA purposes that to make it look [TS]

  like an accidental bug that's possible [TS]

  but that's a lot less likely than just [TS]

  somebody messed up because it's software [TS]

  people mess up all the time that's why [TS]

  you have to have systems in place to be [TS]

  able to update things and patch things [TS]

  because you know it's gonna happen and [TS]

  no matter how many tests Casey writes [TS]

  for you it's still gonna be you're asked [TS]

  about the firing thing just because it [TS]

  was a sentiment that I saw a lot of [TS]

  people discussing and it seemed to me [TS]

  that a lot of discussions centered [TS]

  around people arguing about who should [TS]

  be far like oh the programmer made the [TS]

  mistakes should be fired and no the [TS]

  Quality Assurance you know actually [TS]

  neither one of those people shrimp hard [TS]

  should be their manager no it should be [TS]

  Tim Cook like you know who is ultimately [TS]

  responsible and how do we make people [TS]

  accountable and there was you know kind [TS]

  of a test last trick question for you [TS]

  two would you both got what I think is [TS]

  the right answer but B both write [TS]

  software so I think that's why but like [TS]

  when people are angry about something [TS]

  like you don't have to be particularly [TS]

  technically savvy or into the details of [TS]

  computers or a program or anything to [TS]

  understand how bad this bug is you know [TS]

  cuz it's just it seems like one of those [TS]

  bugs that if we saw it in a movie would [TS]

  be like that's ridiculous thank you [TS]

  that's so fake couldn't come up with a [TS]

  better looking bug it's just comically [TS]

  you know just like just hit return a [TS]

  second time and now you're in it's [TS]

  almost as bad as well like when Windows [TS]

  98 would have a login password up on [TS]

  screen you just hit cancel and just [TS]

  appreciate it but the log yeah that [TS]

  someone showed the old video of the [TS]

  windows 95 one where you could hit that [TS]

  question mark to get the help screen and [TS]

  eventually navigate your way to like a [TS]

  to the open save dialog box and just [TS]

  open my computer at least that one was a [TS]

  little bit complicated but yeah this one [TS]

  is ridiculous but but for all situations [TS]

  again excluding intent [TS]

  sabotage which is I think the only [TS]

  reason anybody anywhere in Apple should [TS]

  be fired for this is intentional [TS]

  sabotage or gross negligence [TS]

  I think intentional said based on what [TS]

  I've seen at this specific bug of like [TS]

  what it looks like from the disassembly [TS]

  of the code it's not gross negligence [TS]

  it's it's a you know a common it looks [TS]

  like a common mistake easy easy to get [TS]

  even you know the QA people shouldn't be [TS]

  fired you know Craig federighi shouldn't [TS]

  be fired no one should be fired for this [TS]

  and the reason no one should fire for [TS]

  this is like it's not just about [TS]

  software I mean it's something [TS]

  experiences all for just because [TS]

  software is a realm where even the very [TS]

  best practitioners make mistakes all the [TS]

  time that is the nature of the work [TS]

  right which is often the source of [TS]

  ridicule but if you're an actual program [TS]

  where you understand why but put [TS]

  programming aside in any sort of group [TS]

  effort any environment where someone [TS]

  would be fired for an honest mistake [TS]

  like this regardless of the impact is [TS]

  not an environment that that it's not a [TS]

  safe environment for people to grow and [TS]

  improve their skills like you have it's [TS]

  a it is a hostile organization you [TS]

  should never want to work for someplace [TS]

  that would fire you because you made an [TS]

  honest mistake in a book like that's not [TS]

  your fault and it's not like the Quality [TS]

  Assurance people's fault now if you make [TS]

  a series of these errors eventually yes [TS]

  executives should be fired or you know [TS]

  changed or whatever but like an [TS]

  individual contributor in any part of [TS]

  the organization who makes an honest [TS]

  mistake shouldn't be fired for that [TS]

  honest mistake just because that one [TS]

  happened to be in just the wrong place [TS]

  right that's not an environment that [TS]

  that makes people feel safe to learn and [TS]

  grow and it's the organization's job to [TS]

  make sure people in roles that are [TS]

  suited to their skills and that they're [TS]

  supported and that they're you know that [TS]

  they have the correct training and [TS]

  knowledge to get up to the next level to [TS]

  the next thing like that's the [TS]

  organization problems it's not the [TS]

  individuals problem so in any group of [TS]

  people if you're an environment where [TS]

  you're like we're gonna be the best [TS]

  because if anybody makes any mistake [TS]

  they're gonna immediately be fired your [TS]

  team you will fire everyone on your team [TS]

  and you will only have the worst meanest [TS]

  employees who are only good at carefully [TS]

  not making mistakes and you will have [TS]

  crap people so like I I don't think it [TS]

  entered anyone's mind an apple that [TS]

  someone was going to get fired over this [TS]

  even in the worst moments of anger again [TS]

  unless it was sabotage unless it was [TS]

  like this is the fifth one of these like [TS]

  you know and you know and even then like [TS]

  it was the fifth one like you should [TS]

  have rotated the person out of that [TS]

  position after the first or second one [TS]

  instead of [TS]

  leave them there so then maybe it's some [TS]

  some manager should get fired but this [TS]

  is a this is not a long series of these [TS]

  terrible security errors or anything [TS]

  like that so no I don't think anyone [TS]

  should be fired for this um and yeah I [TS]

  skipped over the the Developer Forum [TS]

  thing that's that's kind of a fun one [TS]

  because Apple's developer forms if you [TS]

  don't hang out there if you don't hang [TS]

  out there you might most likely hit the [TS]

  developer forums when you do Google [TS]

  search for something and you find all [TS]

  the other poor souls posting to the [TS]

  developer forums of the exact same [TS]

  problem that you have but my [TS]

  understanding of the developer forums [TS]

  which may be outdated but I think it's [TS]

  still current is that it's a place for [TS]

  apples customers to go and talk to each [TS]

  other about their stuff it's not the [TS]

  Genius Bar on the web like it's not a [TS]

  place where you go to ask Apple for help [TS]

  although Apple people are sometimes [TS]

  there and may sometimes be helpful [TS]

  that's not like a support channel for [TS]

  you to get your thing fixed by Apple [TS]

  it's for Apple's customers to talk to [TS]

  each other so it's not like Apple [TS]

  someone from Apple is not their job to [TS]

  read every single post there and what it [TS]

  also means is that my impression is a [TS]

  lot of the people who are posting there [TS]

  are people who are not that into [TS]

  computers as a hobby they just want the [TS]

  damn computer to work and they end up [TS]

  going to Google and trying to say I [TS]

  can't my computer work where someplace I [TS]

  can talk about this and they end up [TS]

  landing at the Apple Developer forums [TS]

  they can go you can go there from the [TS]

  Apple website find your way there or [TS]

  whatever like it's it's a venue for [TS]

  people of all kinds to talk about their [TS]

  computers it is not a super nerd hangout [TS]

  right which means that you get a lot of [TS]

  people with very basic problems and [TS]

  other people trying to help them who may [TS]

  not know all the intricate details and [TS]

  if I have to admit if I had read that [TS]

  threat and saw someone suggesting here's [TS]

  what you can do to figure you know [TS]

  someone was locked out of their computer [TS]

  I've locked myself out of my computer [TS]

  how do I get in and fix it and like [TS]

  you'd see a whole bunch of people [TS]

  suggesting things and like one of them [TS]

  would be like the correct solution of [TS]

  like if you really have forgotten your [TS]

  password you can reset it in single user [TS]

  mode and blah blah blah but there'll be [TS]

  a bunch of other people suggesting other [TS]

  things and if I had read that thing of [TS]

  like oh just go here do this thing at [TS]

  the lock icon type root and hit return [TS]

  you've got right now I would have [TS]

  thought that's not gonna work [TS]

  like it maybe it'd work for you because [TS]

  you have some weird but like it just is [TS]

  obviously someone who's confused and [TS]

  they're trying to be helpful but yeah I [TS]

  would honestly I wouldn't take it [TS]

  seriously because there's so much crap [TS]

  so many people other like you know [TS]

  they're not there just be nice people [TS]

  like here's something try this have you [TS]

  tried that this worked for me once right [TS]

  and I if I had read that I would never [TS]

  in a million years have thought that's [TS]

  actually legit like that will actually [TS]

  work I wouldn't even have tried it [TS]

  wouldn't even thought about trying it [TS]

  and I bet if an Apple employee read it [TS]

  they'd be like huh yeah I mean if only [TS]

  that worked like you just I've rewritten [TS]

  every turn with no password yeah nice [TS]

  try [TS]

  turns out in this one case that actually [TS]

  did work and that's terrifying slightly [TS]

  and the real scary thing is the person [TS]

  who wrote that up a Gruber just posted a [TS]

  thing about it because the thread [TS]

  continued from there saying where did [TS]

  you hear about this he's like oh I heard [TS]

  it in some other forum so who knows how [TS]

  long as exploit has been out there and [TS]

  whatever dark corners of the internet [TS]

  that people have known that you could do [TS]

  this in high sierra and it's only [TS]

  because certainly weeks later but [TS]

  possibly even longer who knows they this [TS]

  has been there since the original [TS]

  release of high sierra maybe it's been [TS]

  there since the beta's and people have [TS]

  known about it only because it got [TS]

  twitter publicity like a day or two ago [TS]

  did apple rush to fix it and and you [TS]

  know i don't really blame apple for that [TS]

  because like i said if i had read this [TS]

  in the forums I wouldn't have believed [TS]

  either it just sounds it just sounds [TS]

  ridiculous yeah and to you know to to [TS]

  add to your your discrediting of needing [TS]

  to take forum seriously whenever I [TS]

  search for a problem with my Apple [TS]

  products or software I almost always [TS]

  come across a forum link or two to Apple [TS]

  support forums and I don't think I can [TS]

  come up with any better example of a [TS]

  worse ratio of usefulness to times I see [TS]

  the page that is that is nonzero like it [TS]

  is like the results are usually so [TS]

  useless and terrible because it is just [TS]

  you know random you know semi lost under [TS]

  informed people trying to help each [TS]

  other without any help from Apple that [TS]

  like I think Yahoo Answers has a higher [TS]

  hit rate for me than Apple Support [TS]

  Forums [TS]

  that's not fair I know it really loves [TS]

  with Apple support from things and [TS]

  here's what yeah here's what I get [TS]

  samples of our arms one I find out if my [TS]

  problem is common because if there are a [TS]

  million repeated threads but the people [TS]

  the same exact problem I am reassured in [TS]

  some way right they're like okay now I [TS]

  know you know if I don't find any [TS]

  matches in the Apple Support Forums I'm [TS]

  like oh I probably have bad hardware or [TS]

  something like that right but if a [TS]

  million people say that they have this [TS]

  problem that tells me something in - I [TS]

  get to see the the weeks or months of [TS]

  people suggesting basically everything [TS]

  under the Sun have you tried resetting [TS]

  your period have you tried hopping on [TS]

  one foot every solution that has ever [TS]

  worked for any problem gets to let get [TS]

  suggested for all problems right and and [TS]

  people reply I tried that it didn't help [TS]

  me I tried that it didn't help me and [TS]

  very often there is one it says I did [TS]

  that and it finally worked and at least [TS]

  that gives me it lets me eliminate stuff [TS]

  that I know won't work is oh I see [TS]

  everyone keep trying this and they're [TS]

  not working and then if something does [TS]

  work for one person sometimes I can [TS]

  backs off to figure out would really [TS]

  solve the problem because obviously that [TS]

  thing didn't because someone be like [TS]

  well I did that exact same thing and I [TS]

  didn't solve it like it is super noisy [TS]

  but here's the thing that has over Yahoo [TS]

  Answers fewer trolls right and much more [TS]

  specifically relevant to my needs so I [TS]

  think there is the signal-to-noise is [TS]

  not great but there is value to be had [TS]

  there know granted if you find yourself [TS]

  in the Apple Support Forums you were [TS]

  probably desperate you're probably they [TS]

  have at the bottom of the barrel but I [TS]

  thank all those people who spend all [TS]

  that time talking back do it for through [TS]

  tillage or try to solve problems because [TS]

  every once in a while just looking at [TS]

  the shape that they've traced around [TS]

  this problem of all the things they've [TS]

  tried I can find my way to a solution [TS]

  that actually works for me [TS]

  so user Rachael broth in the chat said [TS]

  Apple Support Forums [TS]

  the problem you are experiencing doesn't [TS]

  exist / that's the way it's supposed to [TS]

  work [TS]

  / here's a copy pasted solution that [TS]

  indicates I didn't read your problem [TS]

  fantastic summary true that is true and [TS]

  Apple people do occasionally post their [TS]

  you know well one more thing before we [TS]

  leave this topic about like what Apple [TS]

  could do to fix this like in in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things like any any [TS]

  solution that said that takes the form [TS]

  program better or let's be smarter or [TS]

  let's write fewer bugs is not a solution [TS]

  right that's because you look at you do [TS]

  a post-mortem in any sort of bug or [TS]

  it's like in the future we should be [TS]

  better programmers that one then we [TS]

  won't make mistakes like this that's not [TS]

  a solution right so much to Marco [TS]

  chagrin oh the solution to all these [TS]

  things involves process and testing and [TS]

  quality assurance and and systems and [TS]

  you can't have too many of those because [TS]

  then you've paralyzed your entire [TS]

  organization with a spiderweb of [TS]

  bureaucracy but you gotta have a certain [TS]

  amount and bugs like this where there's [TS]

  not that I'm saying this is a gooey bug [TS]

  but there's there is a the way this is [TS]

  exploited is through gooey even if the [TS]

  problem was actually in a library [TS]

  somewhere very often go through you know [TS]

  don't get tested well because the [TS]

  underlying libraries are tested to show [TS]

  they do everything they want to put this [TS]

  glue code that calls into the libraries [TS]

  and checks the return value that code [TS]

  path may only be exercised by someone [TS]

  using the GUI and writing good tests [TS]

  that that automate the use of GUI there [TS]

  are tons of tools that do it but it is [TS]

  the hardest kind of testing to do and [TS]

  I'm sure Apple does a ton of it like [TS]

  they have to they have to do a ton of it [TS]

  but if there's gonna be one area of [TS]

  testing that is very difficult to be [TS]

  comprehensive in and to keep up-to-date [TS]

  and to not even have a good concept of [TS]

  like coverage for its GUI testing and [TS]

  that's you know it's it's not I'm a [TS]

  saying they don't have to do it but like [TS]

  what would a fix this problem if they [TS]

  hadn't automated fuzz testing on this [TS]

  exact sort of flow of like you hit the [TS]

  lock icon in any system preference and [TS]

  you try to get in if they had something [TS]

  with fuzz testing that flow one of the [TS]

  things in the first test would have been [TS]

  rude empty password and hopefully the [TS]

  first test would have done that multiple [TS]

  times or something like that or any [TS]

  other sort of like triggers on the code [TS]

  path to make sure you're along the right [TS]

  lines and to do preconditions in post [TS]

  vision root account is disabled flushed [TS]

  s log in root account is still disabled [TS]

  like there's so many tests you could see [TS]

  that would have caught this and again if [TS]

  the post-mortem says I know exactly the [TS]

  tests we can write right now the [TS]

  boyfriend this exact bug from ever [TS]

  happening again that's that doesn't [TS]

  solve the problem either you got to go [TS]

  much deeper than that and just say how [TS]

  do we prevent problems of this kind from [TS]

  happening I would imagine that thee [TS]

  because the the functional surface area [TS]

  of the Mac operating system is so [TS]

  incredibly vast if you were to put a [TS]

  percentage number on how many code paths [TS]

  are are executed as part of the surely [TS]

  massive amount of automated testing that [TS]

  Apple does in the Mac operating system [TS]

  the percentage would be terrified [TS]

  small especially when compared to the [TS]

  incredible coverage numbers that people [TS]

  who get to write like faceless libraries [TS]

  do you know like what is the coverage [TS]

  chested look like on a small type [TS]

  well-maintained really important library [TS]

  especially involving the colonel or [TS]

  security you can test that thing to [TS]

  death like you can just put it in a [TS]

  little black box and torture it for it [TS]

  like the file system the amount of [TS]

  testing they did on AP FS I'm sure was [TS]

  astronomical where you could just have [TS]

  that thing grinding hour and hour day [TS]

  after day random iOS just and then like [TS]

  stop at every 300 hours to see if the [TS]

  file system is hosed in any way and like [TS]

  put auditing and tracing and every [TS]

  single step of the process and just run [TS]

  that for months and months and years and [TS]

  years that's how you update a billion [TS]

  phones without anybody know something [TS]

  you change their file system right doing [TS]

  that same kind of testing for the [TS]

  entirety of an operating system [TS]

  especially exercising the GUI it could [TS]

  be the changes lot is really really hard [TS]

  and I think that's you know what what's [TS]

  good the actual solution of this if you [TS]

  keep like not five long about seventeen [TS]

  weiying it is more money more time and [TS]

  more money in the mac OS because any [TS]

  solution you come up with about like [TS]

  let's change our procedures in some [TS]

  subtle way it's not as if they're not [TS]

  doing assessing because they because [TS]

  they're lazy you don't feel like it all [TS]

  these things tape people and people cost [TS]

  money and it's time and so I hope that [TS]

  the outcome of this is to dedicate more [TS]

  resources towards you know automated and [TS]

  and manual testing of the Mac operating [TS]

  system because that's it's the only way [TS]

  you're gonna catch more bugs you're [TS]

  gonna you're not going to you're not [TS]

  going to write fewer bugs by everyone [TS]

  suddenly becoming a better programmer [TS]

  you just have to catch more bugs and I [TS]

  hope that's the solution here we respond [TS]

  to this week by hover domain names for [TS]

  whatever you're passionate about go to [TS]

  hover comm slash ATP to learn more and [TS]

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  your online brand has never been more [TS]

  important show the community who you are [TS]

  and what you're passionate about without [TS]

  tying it to whatever publishing platform [TS]

  or social network is popular this year [TS]

  because that stuff changes over time [TS]

  more quickly than you might think [TS]

  my first email address was at junior huh [TS]

  my first website was at Geocities comm [TS]

  you know both seemed huge and invincible [TS]

  at the time like things do today [TS]

  but these change quickly in this [TS]

  business the best thing you can do to [TS]

  keep your email address and website [TS]

  timeless and future proof and to never [TS]

  have to tell anybody [TS]

  oh I changed my website or me I changed [TS]

  my you my email host this is my new [TS]

  email address update your address book [TS]

  nobody likes to hear that from anybody [TS]

  and no one ever I pasted their address [TS]

  book the best way to avoid everything to [TS]

  do that is to have your own domain name [TS]

  and hover is the best place to find buy [TS]

  and manage domains there for over 400 [TS]

  remain extensions from classics like com [TS]

  to all the new fun ones like dot [TS]

  plumbing and diamonds they have no [TS]

  tricks no shady upsells no scamming [TS]

  add-ons they have free who is privacy [TS]

  and all sorts of community features like [TS]

  hover connect to let you quickly set up [TS]

  websites on it without you know having [TS]

  to mainly enter a bunch of settings if [TS]

  you're a power usually they also offer [TS]

  advanced DNS controls and whatever other [TS]

  kinds of advanced controls you might [TS]

  need and they have customer support that [TS]

  is top-notch in case you need any help [TS]

  with any of this I manage most of my [TS]

  domains at hover and it is a breeze you [TS]

  want your domain registrar to be really [TS]

  easy to use for like that first hour [TS]

  that you have to use it and then you [TS]

  never want to have to think about it [TS]

  again and that's what hover it gives me [TS]

  it's wonderful it just works it served [TS]

  my needs perfectly and I don't really [TS]

  have to think about it most of the time [TS]

  it's fantastic so go to hover comm slash [TS]

  ATP to learn more and get 10% off your [TS]

  first purchase hover get a domain name [TS]

  for what you're passionate about I think [TS]

  also the general bugginess in many ways [TS]

  of high sierra which was ostensibly a [TS]

  bug fixing release or a refinement [TS]

  release of the OS I think more clearly [TS]

  than ever shows that the annual release [TS]

  cycle that Apple has pushed for for all [TS]

  their platform to the last few years [TS]

  that this is as inappropriate as ever [TS]

  for Mac OS that the annual recycle makes [TS]

  tons of sense for iOS where it's in this [TS]

  hyper-competitive space and it's moving [TS]

  quickly and it's still you know a [TS]

  relatively young or although not by much [TS]

  now the operating system but on Mac OS [TS]

  like it seems like the faster they go on [TS]

  Mac OS the the worse the quality [TS]

  problems get and no one on the Mac is [TS]

  clamoring for this to be updated every [TS]

  year like [TS]

  no one on the Mac if anything people [TS]

  like please stop touching this because [TS]

  you keep breaking it so I really I hope [TS]

  that that's not you know I I know what I [TS]

  asked for [TS]

  with the Mac is often unrealistic and [TS]

  unlikely to happen with with modern-day [TS]

  Apple but I really think the annual [TS]

  release cycle if it even makes sense for [TS]

  iOS which it probably does it definitely [TS]

  does not make sense for Mac OS and also [TS]

  it's making mac OS worse the Mac is is [TS]

  so D prioritized in the company now and [TS]

  I'm and I'm not even gonna argue right [TS]

  now whether that should or shouldn't be [TS]

  the case [TS]

  that's not for this episode but it is so [TS]

  D prioritized and seemingly d resourced [TS]

  in the company these days that by having [TS]

  it on a very aggressive release cycle to [TS]

  keep up I guess with like marketing [TS]

  features for everything else they're [TS]

  doing you're dooming it to being more [TS]

  buggy over time you're dooming it to [TS]

  having rush jobs done even this like [TS]

  ostensibly bug fix release of high [TS]

  sierra they did major changes into the [TS]

  hood like the new window server it's a [TS]

  huge thing I think my my lcd font [TS]

  rendering disabling checkbox is still [TS]

  broken even intent whatever dot one I [TS]

  I'm hoping they fix it in dot two but [TS]

  I'm not holding my breath on that one [TS]

  like there's so much about High Sierra [TS]

  that has been broken and Sierra honestly [TS]

  wasn't that much better before that it [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't that one before that [TS]

  word that we had Discovery diva what was [TS]

  that was that El Cap or whatever came [TS]

  after that you somebody I lost track of [TS]

  all these mountains but you can't have a [TS]

  very aggressive software release [TS]

  schedule and also have it be like a low [TS]

  priority that you're gonna not give it a [TS]

  whole lot of staff and time to to [TS]

  develop things well on it the amount of [TS]

  resources that Apple is devoting to Mac [TS]

  OS can't keep up with a one-year release [TS]

  cycle and maintain quality they have to [TS]

  either dramatically increase the [TS]

  priority of Mac OS and the company which [TS]

  i think is very unlikely or slow it down [TS]

  and only do it every two years like they [TS]

  used to because they what what they are [TS]

  doing right now is resulting in more bad [TS]

  software I was just thinking that if [TS]

  they actually did go to a two-year [TS]

  schedule I don't care enough about the [TS]

  Mac to updated every year [TS]

  which you know it's a double-edged sword [TS]

  and I kind of understand why they do you [TS]

  I continue to believe that they can [TS]

  successfully do yearly releases if they [TS]

  scope them right and you know that and [TS]

  like I said I feel like they do have to [TS]

  put more resources towards it but if [TS]

  they went to two years I'd be fine and [TS]

  in the past they weren't at two years [TS]

  they were like accidentally like 18 [TS]

  months and the sort of bumpy schedule [TS]

  like whenever they got around to it they [TS]

  kind of spread out like I did a graph in [TS]

  one of my old reviews of the time [TS]

  between releases but this year cadence [TS]

  has been you know that's that's been [TS]

  their decision they're gonna they're [TS]

  going to meet the yearly schedule and [TS]

  their tool for meeting the yearly [TS]

  schedule to adjust scope and I think [TS]

  they have been adjusting scope pushing [TS]

  things out of releases but I think [TS]

  there's always a temptation to put [TS]

  things in releases that are just barely [TS]

  like do you think it's ready to be [TS]

  released or do we have to boot it out [TS]

  you have to make that decision months at [TS]

  a time [TS]

  and you have to kind of make a call and [TS]

  human nature is to say I think the team [TS]

  can make it if they work really hard and [TS]

  it's you know I think it's gonna be in [TS]

  so let's let's leave it let's leave the [TS]

  new wooden to server in like it only [TS]

  crashes on a few GPUs and I'm sure [TS]

  they'll have that worked out by the time [TS]

  it releases and it turns out they don't [TS]

  have worked up by the time that releases [TS]

  and it's like maybe maybe we should have [TS]

  kicked that out but on the other hand [TS]

  you could say look if you keep kicking [TS]

  it out like this like it'll never be so [TS]

  ready to go that you feel like you have [TS]

  to do it and if you never updated it [TS]

  you're gonna be in HFS+ situations so at [TS]

  some point you have to actually ship and [TS]

  the only way to find all the real bugs [TS]

  is to put it out into the real world and [TS]

  that's you know that's the nature of [TS]

  software and management that's the job [TS]

  huh Apple has before it but I do think [TS]

  that high sierra does not live up to its [TS]

  billing as a Snow Leopard type release [TS]

  even though Snow Leopard had more bugs [TS]

  than people think it did their memories [TS]

  are fuzzy on that but like that doesn't [TS]

  live up to the memories of snow leopard [TS]

  type release where it is a refinement of [TS]

  Sierra that just makes everything better [TS]

  and faster it was a refinement of Sierra [TS]

  and we did make things better and faster [TS]

  but the small number of things they [TS]

  changed like they had some bugs of their [TS]

  own and lots of long-standing bugs [TS]

  didn't get face tech that is what I [TS]

  could boils down to like this is the [TS]

  thing a lot of people are pointing out [TS]

  and all their complaints about bugs and [TS]

  that's why I pointed the pile of pebbles [TS]

  and the pile pebble is getting bigger [TS]

  you have to pay down your tech debt you [TS]

  have to address it and say [TS]

  bug that Marco's been having for you [TS]

  know two releases about his Bluetooth [TS]

  randomly disconnecting I know it's a [TS]

  pain in the ass to figure it out it's [TS]

  unreproducible and he's not filing bart [TS]

  reports but just you just gotta figure [TS]

  that out if you don't it will just [TS]

  linger there forever [TS]

  and it will linger there forever [TS]

  alongside the new bug that you added as [TS]

  part of whatever new feature you had and [TS]

  the pile of pebbles gets bigger you go [TS]

  out at least keep the pile of pebbles it [TS]

  like a manageable size we're not saying [TS]

  you have to drive it down to zero it's [TS]

  software right you're never gonna drive [TS]

  down to zero but if you allow them to [TS]

  accumulate and that Polly gets bigger [TS]

  every lease people become disillusioned [TS]

  right because there's always new bugs [TS]

  and your old ones never get fixed and [TS]

  it's like why are you even really seeing [TS]

  new operates and that's when people say [TS]

  let's go to every two years or whatever [TS]

  so I think it is possible to do an every [TS]

  year release but if if it is easier for [TS]

  Apple to go to every two year release [TS]

  then they should do that I mean the way [TS]

  I look at it is like you know imagine [TS]

  like on a smaller scale like I imagine [TS]

  like me as a single developer imagine if [TS]

  all year I didn't really touch overcast [TS]

  I was doing like a thing that was too [TS]

  busy to work on overcast and every [TS]

  summer I gave myself one week to make a [TS]

  new Bigpoint version of it [TS]

  and then I could release it fix bugs for [TS]

  two days and then I wouldn't be able [TS]

  work on anymore until the next summer of [TS]

  course the quality would go down of [TS]

  course I'd have to like rush to get [TS]

  things in there and everything I did [TS]

  would be half-baked I wouldn't I [TS]

  wouldn't have time to fully bake it I [TS]

  wouldn't have enough time afterwards to [TS]

  fix bugs bug to just sit around forever [TS]

  until the next year when I couldn't fix [TS]

  the old bugs I'd have to make new [TS]

  features for the new marketing push [TS]

  that's I think a pretty good scale model [TS]

  how low as 10 feels I see excuse me Mac [TS]

  OS how Mac OS feels it feels like most [TS]

  people are not able to are allowed to or [TS]

  allocated to work on it most of the time [TS]

  and what time they get on it seems to be [TS]

  limited to marketing features and and [TS]

  not fixing bugs and and I think your [TS]

  your pebble pile analogy is great and I [TS]

  think it's pretty clear that we're going [TS]

  in the direction of accumulating more of [TS]

  those pebbles over time not fewer like [TS]

  the pile is just getting bigger over [TS]

  time and that that technical debt is not [TS]

  being paid off at at a fast enough rate [TS]

  the [TS]

  the saddest part about this is that [TS]

  nobody is really asking for this like [TS]

  Mac users don't need a new OS every year [TS]

  we really don't like I'm still on Sierra [TS]

  because hi Sierra so buggy I'm a little [TS]

  scared to switch to it I only have it on [TS]

  the laptop but not my not my main [TS]

  computer part of the reason is like why [TS]

  why should I switch to it the sales [TS]

  pitch for hi Sierra it seems to get [TS]

  worse every day [TS]

  why should I upgrade exactly why is [TS]

  Apple fortunately look right down my [TS]

  throat with these notifications and that [TS]

  pre downloaded to my system and [TS]

  everything like apples pushing really [TS]

  really hard to force people to update - [TS]

  hi Sierra when it's still in a really [TS]

  buggy state which is that alone shows [TS]

  pretty bad judgment on Apple's part what [TS]

  like what's in it for me as a user and [TS]

  not much the only thing I gain from it [TS]

  is you know certain things work better [TS]

  when all your stuff is on the new OS [TS]

  things like certain like handoff [TS]

  features or iCloud syncing features [TS]

  airdrop you know calendar sync doesn't [TS]

  actually work anymore for me thanks a [TS]

  lot but for the most part the main [TS]

  reason the main motivating reason I have [TS]

  to upgrade to High Sierra right now is [TS]

  it's the newest OS and my other stuff is [TS]

  starting to slowly break because my [TS]

  computer is not on the newest OS that's [TS]

  it [TS]

  there's nothing about High Sierra that I [TS]

  actually want because what it comes with [TS]

  is all these bugs and all these [TS]

  half-baked incomplete features like my [TS]

  loss of my lcd font smoothing thing and [TS]

  that might get fixed the next version [TS]

  but it might not as a Mac user all this [TS]

  stuff there changing radically and the [TS]

  all these costs we are paying and all [TS]

  these big bugs and you know new sub [TS]

  systems being rewritten in ways that are [TS]

  almost as good as the old ones but [TS]

  broken like I didn't ask for that [TS]

  I do want Mac OS to move forward and I [TS]

  want I really hope that the Mac OS is [TS]

  still still has a roadmap ahead of it [TS]

  but I don't want it to be done sloppily [TS]

  badly and rushed out I'd rather it be [TS]

  done slowly and right and to have fewer [TS]

  awesome things in each release if that's [TS]

  even possible then to have it be done [TS]

  half-assed and rushed and then have [TS]

  really buggy software come out every [TS]

  year and have my system break for four [TS]

  months every year in the fall I think [TS]

  the most attractive aspect of the [TS]

  two-year plan is [TS]

  the part that people probably don't [TS]

  think about as much but what that would [TS]

  mean is imagine like a high sierra [TS]

  didn't come out and we were still on [TS]

  sierra right what that would mean is [TS]

  that Sierra porn releases would continue [TS]

  for another year you know 10 12 6 10 12 [TS]

  7 10 12 8 10 12 9 and all those point [TS]

  releases all those patch level releases [TS]

  you know they're not replacing the [TS]

  window server in one of those right [TS]

  there probably not changing the file [TS]

  system but who the hell knows that it on [TS]

  10 2 or whatever on iOS right but the [TS]

  nature of those point releases tends to [TS]

  prevent Apple from doing any big changes [TS]

  so what is everybody doing in those [TS]

  releases you know what they're doing and [TS]

  all those point releases you know as [TS]

  that number gets bigger and bigger and [TS]

  even goes into double digits as it has [TS]

  in the past they're fixing little bugs [TS]

  that's all they're doing like that's all [TS]

  that like isn't usually you know [TS]

  security fixes and bug fixes and the [TS]

  bigger that number gets the this sort of [TS]

  we all assume the more stable and more [TS]

  mature the operating system gets that [TS]

  kind of also makes the the big release [TS]

  harder like when I think it was like [TS]

  tiger or something it was like 10 for 11 [TS]

  or something when you get yeah someone [TS]

  already said in that chat room when you [TS]

  get up that high the challenge for the [TS]

  10 5 0 at least for the next major [TS]

  version release for the next like newly [TS]

  named cat or a California Place release [TS]

  is so much higher because it's like we [TS]

  have enjoyed this period of peace and [TS]

  stability like we've we're up in - we're [TS]

  up into the double digits on the last [TS]

  number and our versions and everything [TS]

  is good and like every little like that [TS]

  team that is doing those point releases [TS]

  you know and I don't even know it's a [TS]

  separate team or whatever but those [TS]

  people like they're running out of bugs [TS]

  to fix like they're knocking things down [TS]

  they're like you know oh you haven't [TS]

  some obscure problem with your Bluetooth [TS]

  the entire team's going to spend the [TS]

  next two months just looking at that [TS]

  problem because we have no other bugs to [TS]

  fix right we're not on the glory team [TS]

  doing the next version and you hope [TS]

  those are synchronized with what's [TS]

  happening in the in the future or at [TS]

  least but inevitably when the point zero [TS]

  comes out it's always less stable than [TS]

  the other one because that's the one [TS]

  that has the big substance replace and [TS]

  I'm all for big system subsystem [TS]

  replacements I love it which is why I [TS]

  just want them to add more money and [TS]

  time and developers and still do it that [TS]

  way but if we did go to the two-year [TS]

  schedule [TS]

  I think we would have at least one year [TS]

  of peace and prosperity where you know [TS]

  the chicken in every pot and [TS]

  those bugs are getting fixed and just [TS]

  you know the point release has come out [TS]

  and we just blindly install them knowing [TS]

  that it's just one more bug fixed and [TS]

  one more performance improvement and [TS]

  everything gets great and so I would I [TS]

  could do with a run of double-digit at [TS]

  the end of the version numbers see what [TS]

  that's like again because those are good [TS]

  times I don't disagree about the [TS]

  two-year schedule thing but I don't [TS]

  understand why two years or a [TS]

  lengthening of major releases has to be [TS]

  the answer like I feel like just [TS]

  different choices even on the same [TS]

  cadence would be okay and I and I don't [TS]

  think it's fair for us to conjecture [TS]

  about what is or is not important to [TS]

  Apple internally but certainly from the [TS]

  perspective of an outsider like me it [TS]

  seems like Apple doesn't value bug free [TS]

  software either the same way that they [TS]

  did or as much as any of us would like [TS]

  them to and I feel like this is starting [TS]

  to gain a little traction I feel like [TS]

  I'm noticing friends and family rolling [TS]

  their eyes and saying oh well that's [TS]

  Apple you know and this is more than [TS]

  just oh you know screw you autocorrect [TS]

  and this is more than just hating on [TS]

  Siri which I'm becoming more and more [TS]

  interested in as time goes on is a [TS]

  dumpster fire but be that as and I don't [TS]

  even have an Alexa to compare to I just [TS]

  just using Siri has been more and more [TS]

  frustrating over time but anyway I feel [TS]

  like like my family is starting to get [TS]

  frustrated with things that are problems [TS]

  that are software problems that are [TS]

  coming out of Apple and I feel like if [TS]

  from an out from an outsider's [TS]

  perspective it appears as though the [TS]

  institutional value is way heavier on [TS]

  new shiny and I think you guys are both [TS]

  saying this is way heavier on new shiny [TS]

  than it is on boring but useful [TS]

  stability and in the same ways you know [TS]

  we said last week you know Jenkins is [TS]

  not sexy you know a bug free software to [TS]

  most developers especially younger ones [TS]

  is not terribly sexy but to us old [TS]

  people and now I'll call myself [TS]

  old bug free software or as close as you [TS]

  can get of course is super sexy and I [TS]

  want a lot more of that in my life I [TS]

  want to write it better and I want to [TS]

  consume it and it just feels like Apple [TS]

  hasn't cared about stability as much as [TS]

  they appeared to in the past now why is [TS]

  that it could be any number of things [TS]

  maybe it's that they're spread thin not [TS]

  necessarily in terms of people but [TS]

  there's just a lot more going on and in [TS]

  all of these OS it's like there's a lot [TS]

  more stuff like take a silly example [TS]

  like handoff like handoff is a thing [TS]

  where you can have a device nearby and [TS]

  your devices will talk to each other [TS]

  I think via iCloud and say and my phone [TS]

  will say oh I'm looking at such-and-such [TS]

  URL and then my Mac will say hey I see [TS]

  your phone is physically nearby and it's [TS]

  looking at such-and-such URL would you [TS]

  like to open that here like that in and [TS]

  of itself does not seem that inherently [TS]

  complex and in many ways is very very [TS]

  useful but that's adding a complexity [TS]

  that none of us had the Apple us you [TS]

  know anyone a few years ago and I don't [TS]

  know I just feel like as as the OSS have [TS]

  been getting more and more and more [TS]

  involved and more and more and more [TS]

  complex there has not there has not [TS]

  appeared to have been a commensurate [TS]

  interest in or increase in interest in [TS]

  stability and quality assurance and it's [TS]

  getting to the point that just a week or [TS]

  two ago I wish I remember what I was [TS]

  doing or what happened but I thought for [TS]

  a fleeting moment like I can't put up [TS]

  with this anymore and I want to say it [TS]

  was something on my phone and I really [TS]

  really really wish I remember what it [TS]

  was in for a fleeting moment just for a [TS]

  second I thought I can't put up with [TS]

  this anymore this shit never works let [TS]

  me tell you what you might have been [TS]

  thinking of because it's exactly the [TS]

  last time I had this thought my wife's [TS]

  been unlocking her computer with her [TS]

  series three watch because she's got a [TS]

  high sierra she's got a 5 K Mac she's [TS]

  got a series three Apple watch and doing [TS]

  the watch unlock thing and she liked it [TS]

  until it stopped working and why did it [TS]

  stop working beats the hell out of me [TS]

  hdmi cec might as well be my [TS]

  well me because that's that thing like [TS]

  so that feature was introduced a while [TS]

  ago and it was tweaked for High Sierra [TS]

  right and this is example of the [TS]

  complexity of the case he was talking [TS]

  about it's a complicated thing it is [TS]

  multiple operating systems muscle [TS]

  devices multiple wireless radios and all [TS]

  sorts of crap like I it is ferociously [TS]

  complicated a complication that never [TS]

  existed in the old world well there was [TS]

  like one computer there wasn't even [TS]

  networked right let alone you know this [TS]

  your watch and people walking around and [TS]

  radios bouncing and trying to judge [TS]

  distances and an authentication system [TS]

  like so much opportunity for things to [TS]

  go wrong right but it's a feature they [TS]

  chose to introduce and I can understand [TS]

  it being buggy [TS]

  when they first put it out but if this [TS]

  is gonna be a feature that you have like [TS]

  it you say you know that you we're gonna [TS]

  ship this feature you have to be [TS]

  committed to keep working on it until it [TS]

  works basically all the time because [TS]

  otherwise why have the feature because [TS]

  features that don't work all the time [TS]

  people give up mine like you can't see [TS]

  whatever feature you were trying to [TS]

  think of you just like I give up like it [TS]

  is not that you know they're very [TS]

  difficult to debug you're not sure what [TS]

  to do you don't know why it isn't [TS]

  working and at a certain point you're [TS]

  like well just forget it then because if [TS]

  it doesn't work all the time I don't [TS]

  want to be sitting there and wondering [TS]

  why it's not working but it's you know [TS]

  it gives you like the message that [TS]

  watches it in range or try again or [TS]

  whatever it's like I'm sitting right [TS]

  here like I always do what's the problem [TS]

  maybe I reboot both things and it's like [TS]

  no I'm not gonna reboot I'm doing stuff [TS]

  I don't want to reboot the computer I [TS]

  don't want to reboot my watch I don't [TS]

  want to sign out of my class and you [TS]

  just give up on it that feature might as [TS]

  well not exist right [TS]

  it is either gonna work enough that it [TS]

  is usable or it's not going to and that [TS]

  bar is not met by a lot of things maybe [TS]

  Siri is one of those things for a lot of [TS]

  people like I talk to Siri sometimes but [TS]

  she knows me and doesn't give me answers [TS]

  and so I just don't talk to her anymore [TS]

  or or I only have her set timers or [TS]

  whatever do some sort of limited thing [TS]

  and that's that's the kind of failure [TS]

  you mentioned stability before I'm [TS]

  valuing like bug free software never [TS]

  that's kind of failure doesn't show up [TS]

  in easy metrics I think Apple software I [TS]

  know I've mentioned this before is much [TS]

  better about crashing and licking memory [TS]

  than it has been in a long time because [TS]

  those are easy things to measure but [TS]

  these other kind of bugs that are just [TS]

  kind of like frustrating nothing crashes [TS]

  no data loss but sometimes it doesn't [TS]

  work for a next [TS]

  a couple reasons and it makes you [TS]

  abandon the feature that's really [TS]

  difficult for it to show up in Apple's [TS]

  metrics you know because Apple is not as [TS]

  obsessive as some other yeah as every [TS]

  iOS app is about tracking every single [TS]

  thing that you do as a user like it's [TS]

  not tracking motion and regarding your [TS]

  screen or reporting it back to Apple [TS]

  they are sending back crash reports and [TS]

  stuff like that but and occasionally [TS]

  they'll ask you for sister reports for [TS]

  bug things but if people give up on a [TS]

  feature and don't abusing it Apple [TS]

  probably has limited reasons limited [TS]

  knowledge of that or if they do not know [TS]

  about it they don't know what the cause [TS]

  is and I would love to tell Apple hey [TS]

  Apple we're about to give up I never [TS]

  trying to unlock her computer or their [TS]

  watch because it suddenly stopped [TS]

  working and I have no idea why and [TS]

  that's that's a failure that you know [TS]

  probably doesn't even show up on [TS]

  customer satellite before and for a day [TS]

  or two it worked and it was cool but now [TS]

  it doesn't oh well and back to the [TS]

  status quo but I think it's a pretty [TS]

  massive failure to say look if you're [TS]

  gonna have that feature you gotta make [TS]

  it work all the time just like typing [TS]

  your password and textbox works all the [TS]

  time right [TS]

  the watch has to be like that too or [TS]

  just don't have that feature or have a [TS]

  way to debug it or figure something out [TS]

  but that that's one of my major sources [TS]

  of frustration coincidentally watch [TS]

  unlock has been reasonably bulletproof [TS]

  for me but but I don't debate anything [TS]

  you just said like if that happens to be [TS]

  your bug bear then yeah you're [TS]

  absolutely right as you were talking I [TS]

  thought of a couple of examples of when [TS]

  this was infuriating to me [TS]

  the first example I'm trying to figure [TS]

  out how much depth I want to get into [TS]

  here the first example was I went for a [TS]

  run on Thanksgiving morning and I did [TS]

  that in part because it was a day that I [TS]

  would I would normally go for a run if I [TS]

  wasn't you know if I hadn't just [TS]

  recorded a tipi but beyond that I wanted [TS]

  the neat little badge that you get if [TS]

  you do 5k walk/run push etc and when I [TS]

  did my 5k run I never got my badge and [TS]

  it turned out after talking to a lot of [TS]

  people some inside Apple some not it [TS]

  turned out what had happened was I had [TS]

  set my watch and phone to be localized [TS]

  to Australia and the reason I did that [TS]

  is because I want to be able to have day [TS]

  day / month month / year year like it [TS]

  should be and still have everything else [TS]

  to be the same [TS]

  dollar for example now unfortunately I [TS]

  get metric in a lot of places and I'm [TS]

  not here to debate metric versus [TS]

  Imperial which is weird because that's [TS]

  one of my favorite pastimes but [TS]

  nevertheless I had my phone and watch [TS]

  that to metric excuse me set to [TS]

  Australia and so understandably [TS]

  understandably it makes sense that I [TS]

  didn't get an American Thanksgiving [TS]

  thing on on a phone and watch that were [TS]

  set to Australia now I still disagree [TS]

  with it but I understand it like if I'm [TS]

  standing in America the thing has a - [TS]

  both of these devices have a friggin GPS [TS]

  on them they know where I'm standing [TS]

  they know where I did that run I can go [TS]

  into my health app right now in C the [TS]

  route I took that run on so to me this [TS]

  is a stupid decision but I can [TS]

  understand it nevertheless I finally [TS]

  figure out okay that's why and then I [TS]

  set my devices to America because I hear [TS]

  it's getting great again can't see it [TS]

  but that's what I'm told and and so I [TS]

  and so I said it to America it stings I [TS]

  said it to America and the 2017 badge [TS]

  shows up reasonably quickly but the 2016 [TS]

  badge which I had also earned from a [TS]

  walk is nowhere to be found [TS]

  and I learned that if you just wait [TS]

  it should magically appear and guess [TS]

  what happened and I just waited and then [TS]

  friggin magic happen and it magically [TS]

  appeared like iCloud is a thing why is [TS]

  this not in iCloud like what why is this [TS]

  a thing the Apple watch is the Nintendo [TS]

  switch of Apple's devices like super [TS]

  important data that people care about [TS]

  like not actually real world important [TS]

  but like important to people kind of [TS]

  like you know you're saving Zelda right [TS]

  in the grand scheme of things it's not [TS]

  important like you're not gonna die from [TS]

  it [TS]

  right but to people who have sunk you [TS]

  know 100 hours into Zelda it is super [TS]

  important so those stupid badges on the [TS]

  Apple watch for your achievements and [TS]

  the grand scheme of things nothing's [TS]

  gonna happen to you agreed but people [TS]

  are so angry if they go away and so how [TS]

  does Apple protect what is perhaps the [TS]

  sec [TS]

  most valuable pieces of information they [TS]

  store first being their actual data but [TS]

  the second most valuable one being their [TS]

  stupid achievement badges oh we're not [TS]

  gonna back that up oh yeah there's a [TS]

  million things you can do to lose all [TS]

  that information no no we don't care [TS]

  about that at all same thing with a [TS]

  Nintendo switch like no you know you [TS]

  can't back up your data no we won't [TS]

  start in the cloud just if you and if [TS]

  you switch ties yet you lose all your [TS]

  saves it's such a dumb distinct like it [TS]

  stems from just I mean Tendo was said [TS]

  excusable in Tendo has a history of [TS]

  doing stupid things but Apple like I [TS]

  don't think they understand exactly how [TS]

  seriously people take those badges [TS]

  yeah and how how angry how unreasonably [TS]

  angry people are when they lose their [TS]

  badges that was me I spent half an hour [TS]

  running it well ostensibly because I [TS]

  want to get healthier but also because I [TS]

  wanted that friggin badge yeah you want [TS]

  credit dammit you worked hard for that I [TS]

  wanted my treat Mac's got his treat so [TS]

  anyway the point is is that it's a [TS]

  stupid thing just like John said and I [TS]

  don't know maybe it is maybe those [TS]

  activities or achievements rather are [TS]

  synced via iCloud but why did it take [TS]

  like 24 or 48 hours for that junk to [TS]

  magically come from the cloud onto my [TS]

  device I don't I don't think it actually [TS]

  is think I think it I don't on device [TS]

  and I think they're getting like [TS]

  Nintendo they are getting better about a [TS]

  Nintendo has actually said they are [TS]

  working their way towards same cloud [TS]

  backups which it should have had from [TS]

  day one I think Apple will eventually [TS]

  work on this but judging by how long [TS]

  it's taken them to not deliver the [TS]

  iCloud message sync that they advertise [TS]

  for iOS 11 and again another source of [TS]

  like not just people caring about the [TS]

  contents of it but just you know [TS]

  baseline functionality people expect [TS]

  that and all your devices you see all [TS]

  your conversations that you've had [TS]

  anywhere I thing that has never been [TS]

  true about iMessage that they promise to [TS]

  make it true your achievements your your [TS]

  silly achievements on your Apple watch [TS]

  they should be as bulletproof as your [TS]

  family photos they should be everywhere [TS]

  you should be able to throw your watch [TS]

  into the ocean and get a new Apple watch [TS]

  put it on and all your achievements from [TS]

  all your past that watch it should be [TS]

  there to show that yes you had a 28 day [TS]

  streak of meeting your goals in 2015 [TS]

  like why shouldn't it be it's such a [TS]

  small amount of data and Apple should [TS]

  know how incredibly important it is [TS]

  beyond all reason to the people who do [TS]

  them like that's the whole point of [TS]

  that's why they're giving them the shiny [TS]

  little 3d things [TS]

  it's just silly token that we [TS]

  no well you know it's like it's like [TS]

  free-to-play gaming like they're they're [TS]

  exploiting human you know foibles to [TS]

  make you exercise more and them being [TS]

  carefree with not like not preserving [TS]

  them with the same vigor that they [TS]

  preserve your family photos just shows [TS]

  the disconnect like a misunderstanding [TS]

  of how you like in one hand they know [TS]

  how humans work so they're gonna make [TS]

  the system on the other hand they don't [TS]

  understand how important it is for them [TS]

  to keep this stuff in sync yep yeah I [TS]

  couldn't agree more [TS]

  the other example I had and this this [TS]

  one could very well be a hundred percent [TS]

  on my shoulders but thinking like a [TS]

  consumer and not thinking like a [TS]

  developer it sure doesn't feel like it [TS]

  is and the problem I'm having in and I'm [TS]

  the only one I think that I've heard [TS]

  complaining about this so it's maybe it [TS]

  is me but the problem I'm having is I'm [TS]

  getting to the point that I feel like I [TS]

  am being incapable of typing on my phone [TS]

  anymore I just can't do it successfully [TS]

  I cannot get a friggin sentence out on [TS]

  my phone without having a thousand typos [TS]

  and it's driving me insane and half the [TS]

  time it's autocorrect doing something [TS]

  increasingly bananas as time goes on [TS]

  which is why I think maybe it's this [TS]

  weirdo machine learning stuff but if [TS]

  that's not going well yeah it's really [TS]

  not and I understand the thought process [TS]

  it makes sense it's a clever idea but I [TS]

  don't think the execution is is is going [TS]

  well at all but I again I don't know if [TS]

  it's just me maybe I just had fatter [TS]

  fingers than I've ever had despite all [TS]

  this wonderful running I'm doing maybe [TS]

  I'm exercising my fingers as I'm running [TS]

  so they're getting fatter and fatter [TS]

  with muscle who knows whatever it is I [TS]

  feel like I cannot type on my phone any [TS]

  more without a billion typos and it's [TS]

  getting to the point that you know once [TS]

  we got SMS on the Mac which is a great [TS]

  example of something that made my life [TS]

  demonstrable better I mean that [TS]

  genuinely once I could send not only AI [TS]

  messages but SMS from my Mac it was [TS]

  amazing and the reason it was amazing [TS]

  was because I could talk to my all of my [TS]

  in-laws none of whom have iPhones I [TS]

  could talk to them and send them text [TS]

  messages from my Mac on a full-size [TS]

  keyboard [TS]

  and it was magic and it always worked [TS]

  and to be honest to this day it still [TS]

  almost always works so that is an [TS]

  example of a feature that I think is [TS]

  very complex because the only thing that [TS]

  can send this SMS as far as I'm aware is [TS]

  my phone and it's but it's very complex [TS]

  but it works it's almost bulletproof so [TS]

  anyway it's gotten to the point with my [TS]

  iPhone that if I have to type more than [TS]

  like a one or two line text message I'm [TS]

  going searching for the nearest Mac so I [TS]

  can type it with a physical keyboard [TS]

  because I know at least then I'll be [TS]

  able to do it without ripping my hair [TS]

  out and I apologize if it's just me but [TS]

  it's a very clear example of a time when [TS]

  I thought about throwing my phone out [TS]

  the window or I really first leading [TS]

  moment thought to myself so how bad are [TS]

  those pixels these days anyway and like [TS]

  that's that's a problem I'm a super fan [TS]

  like part of my living is talking about [TS]

  how much I love Apple and I'm thinking [TS]

  to myself oh god maybe I should just [TS]

  maybe I should put this aside and you [TS]

  know what the healthy thing to do would [TS]

  probably be for me to try pixel and [TS]

  realize that I'm just being a big baby [TS]

  and really really life is considerably [TS]

  worse on the other side unless but who [TS]

  knows I know am I crazy on this like do [TS]

  you feel the same way I do it's funny [TS]

  you mentioned SMS on the Mac because I [TS]

  have one person that I talk to that I [TS]

  don't doesn't have an iPhone that I have [TS]

  to send them SMS to and I always do it [TS]

  from my phone because I could never [TS]

  remember if you could do it from the Mac [TS]

  and every time I went to go check I'm [TS]

  usually at work like when I had to send [TS]

  SMS is this person every time I went to [TS]

  check at my Mac I would bring up [TS]

  messages on my Mac at work and I would [TS]

  find it signed out and I would enter my [TS]

  correct password to sign in and it would [TS]

  just say nope sorry I couldn't sign you [TS]

  in sorry error failed couldn't sign into [TS]

  iMessage and the only fix to this is for [TS]

  me to restart my Mac once I actually [TS]

  reset my P Ram but then I realized it [TS]

  was probably just the restarting of it [TS]

  did it that's how desperate I was but [TS]

  but anyway this is another one those [TS]

  things have like hey design message work [TS]

  on your Mac yeah most of the time what's [TS]

  the time like I send and receive [TS]

  messages in the messages application on [TS]

  my Mac at work back and forth to my wife [TS]

  you know it's nice to type on the big [TS]

  keyboard just like KC right boo Here I [TS]

  am doing [TS]

  messages but every time I think oh I [TS]

  should try a semester me or two and I [TS]

  bring up messages and it just gets a [TS]

  little the thing pops up and says and [TS]

  wants me to sign in and has like you can [TS]

  skip this process anyway like I realize [TS]

  I am permanently signed out again [TS]

  something having to do probably with [TS]

  Hardware IDs and VPNs and the fact that [TS]

  it's on Wi-Fi and even at the same time [TS]

  when it's plugged into the dock and I [TS]

  don't know I'm like all the sorts of [TS]

  guessing about what could possibly cause [TS]

  the iMessage to be confused but anyway I [TS]

  restart I log back in usually restarting [TS]

  fixes it and then I get a notifications [TS]

  and every single one of my devices that [TS]

  says you just signed in with your Apple [TS]

  ID do I message on blah blah blah you [TS]

  know that message you get like like a [TS]

  nun and all my devices which makes you [TS]

  thinks it is it has reprovision Danu [TS]

  private and public key for that one [TS]

  computer that's the type of thing that [TS]

  like you know messages it's a thing it's [TS]

  there it works I'm not abandoning it [TS]

  because the utility is still too high [TS]

  but it bothers me that it's not as [TS]

  reliable as a Monde ATM was for like a [TS]

  day well in your defense [TS]

  SMS relay is like its own dance that you [TS]

  have to go through on each computer in [TS]

  an iPad in whatever iOS device that you [TS]

  want to do it on so like I actually [TS]

  wrote a post in late 2014 which will [TS]

  link in the show notes as to the song [TS]

  and dance you need to get through in [TS]

  order to turn this on and this is just [TS]

  for SMS this is not I mean this is the [TS]

  answer that I could never get to pursue [TS]

  it was permanently always permantly sign [TS]

  out of messages but it I'm good to know [TS]

  that this is must have been what I was [TS]

  forgetting about this may be that it [TS]

  actually does yeah that's a bummer you [TS]

  should read my blog John it's pretty [TS]

  good I think I did I'm looking at this [TS]

  thing and I remember I was looking at [TS]

  this right now and gagging actually it's [TS]

  what do you say that I was just looking [TS]

  at it and going but it's before is the [TS]

  thing that people don't appreciate it or [TS]

  doing Mac OS reviews for so long that I [TS]

  didn't have blurred out screenshots and [TS]

  you know how hard that is it's really [TS]

  hard oh I don't doubt it it's really [TS]

  hard because personal information is [TS]

  everywhere anyway but yeah but the point [TS]

  I'm driving at is you know in some of [TS]

  these things like I forget how complex [TS]

  they are and how reasonably bulletproof [TS]

  they are in SMS like this is happy KC [TS]

  right like SMS relay is an example of [TS]

  that it has to send my sms's to my phone [TS]

  because as far as I understand my phone [TS]

  is the only thing that can actually [TS]

  issue an SMS to my carrier and this [TS]

  stuff works I use it all day every day [TS]

  and it works great it is almost flawless [TS]

  but if I actually want to send an SMS [TS]

  from the friggin device sending them for [TS]

  if I want a phone to type a text message [TS]

  on my iPhone it only gets through [TS]

  without typos maybe one time out of [TS]

  three and it's driving me insane I don't [TS]

  know if you can blame the autocorrect [TS]

  that aside from the silly [TS]

  can't type of letter I thing I know they [TS]

  have had some wonky nice with it but not [TS]

  a new size of the phone because it could [TS]

  be but I feel like I what it feels like [TS]

  and again this is maybe all in my head [TS]

  but it feels like the way they the [TS]

  accuracy checks on key presses either [TS]

  got less forgiving or or or I don't know [TS]

  something happened like two or three [TS]

  maybe even four versions of iOS ago and [TS]

  I used to type really accurately [TS]

  like around the time of the six and it [TS]

  was like the 6s or something like that [TS]

  where everything took a turn and all of [TS]

  a sudden I just could not type anymore [TS]

  and it's just been getting worse and [TS]

  worse and you would think like between [TS]

  the 6s and my seven it would get better [TS]

  and yes I agree with you that when I go [TS]

  to the 10 maybe that would it would have [TS]

  a moment you know I would I would have [TS]

  to train myself a little bit and I think [TS]

  that that's some of it but I feel like [TS]

  just the way the way it detects like he [TS]

  presses used even if I was wrong it [TS]

  understood what I was doing in like the [TS]

  5s 6 era and now it's either less [TS]

  forgiving or [TS]

  just change the way things work and I [TS]

  have not been able to retrain my brain [TS]

  I've been able to retrain my brain on [TS]

  the home button but I can't retrain my [TS]

  brain on the keyboard you need to turn [TS]

  to my mom and just start pressing that [TS]

  microphone button and talking to your [TS]

  phone transcription is really good [TS]

  that's the only way she types into these [TS]

  things she talks to it in a very stilted [TS]

  artificial sounding voice matter well [TS]

  thanks to our three sponsors this week [TS]

  thanks to our three sponsors this week [TS]

  hover away and arrow and we will talk to [TS]

  you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin because [TS]

  it was accidental accidental research [TS]

  Casey wouldn't let him because it was [TS]

  accidental ey L is s so that's Casey Liz [TS]

  and a RC o AR M auntie Marco Arment SI r [TS]

  AC Syracuse [TS]

  and episode 250 is fine oh look it's her [TS]

  what a great episode spectacular that [TS]

  was can we talk about anything that [TS]

  makes us happy yeah when I'm getting [TS]

  fired up about things then you know it's [TS]

  bad yeah it's something is not good [TS]

  yeah our aftershow is only one thing KC [TS]

  on cars [TS]

  oh yeah that's a thing that turns out [TS]

  that I completed my video so if you uh [TS]

  if you haven't watch it out I put a link [TS]

  I will put a link in the show notes if [TS]

  released KC on cars episode 1 which is [TS]

  on the Alfa Romeo and the response has [TS]

  been exceedingly positive which I am [TS]

  super thankful for however I think that [TS]

  I'm still only within my own audience [TS]

  so but there was a comment that came [TS]

  through let me I'll have to see if I can [TS]

  find it really really quickly but I may [TS]

  not be able to but there was a comment [TS]

  that that somebody wrote in that seemed [TS]

  clear to me that it was someone outside [TS]

  of my audience and they were like this [TS]

  is garbage like oh here we go [TS]

  BMW is a copy of an Alfa near already 40 [TS]

  years I think this person is not a [TS]

  native English speaker and your app and [TS]

  you apple headphones just show how much [TS]

  you know about quality ok you Apple cell [TS]

  phone Oh air pods so basically because I [TS]

  because I thought an Apple product much [TS]

  less air pods were sufficient for this [TS]

  video obviously I don't know what I'm [TS]

  doing and like again obviously we've [TS]

  talked to this to death we don't need to [TS]

  get back into it like I understand the [TS]

  foibles or many of the foibles of the [TS]

  video but it if if you hadn't heard me [TS]

  talk this to death that is the sort of [TS]

  comment that an obnoxious youtuber would [TS]

  write and thus I think that particular [TS]

  individual may have come from outside my [TS]

  audience but everyone else even like the [TS]

  the pretty critical ones from I could [TS]

  tell it was somebody who knew who I was [TS]

  right it would say oh you know this [TS]

  really does have crappy audio and you [TS]

  got to fix that but you know whatever [TS]

  like that that to me sounded like it was [TS]

  my audience where is this [TS]

  so anyway as we sit here tonight it's [TS]

  over 10,000 views which is super good [TS]

  for several reasons one of which is you [TS]

  can start monetizing once your channel [TS]

  kids 10,000 views which is excellent so [TS]

  I am in automated review last I looked [TS]

  anyway with YouTube so hopefully they [TS]

  will let me monetize soon and I don't [TS]

  know if I'll ever make any real money [TS]

  off of this but it would be nice to make [TS]

  more than 0 and we'll see what happens [TS]

  once you click that monetization button [TS]

  you'll find out that there's a brief [TS]

  clip of distant music copyrighted music [TS]

  in the background you'll immediately be [TS]

  the my machine and everyone's strike [TS]

  against your can and then you'll have [TS]

  the real YouTube experience which by the [TS]

  way I have had I think I already have [TS]

  one strike because nice copyright stuff [TS]

  nice yeah my channel is still under [TS]

  review as I write this but uh but yeah [TS]

  so the response in is has been really [TS]

  really really positive and I'm really [TS]

  really a really appreciative of it and [TS]

  and the general response has been oh [TS]

  this wasn't near as bad as I expected in [TS]

  fact I think my code said that to me [TS]

  privately somewhere yeah I think I chose [TS]

  more gentle words but yes that is that [TS]

  exactly I was expecting it to be way [TS]

  worse because it was your very first [TS]

  video of this type and you you don't [TS]

  have a history of making videos like [TS]

  this and so like right I thought I was [TS]

  really thinking it was gonna be a lot [TS]

  more painful and it wasn't painful at [TS]

  all like there was some audio that was [TS]

  bad but you know we knew but you already [TS]

  warned us about that and and the fact is [TS]

  like you know the bad audio like yeah it [TS]

  does detract from those scenes but it's [TS]

  you still can watch them and enjoy what [TS]

  you're saying like it doesn't like [TS]

  totally ruin it it just it's noticeable [TS]

  but the video overall like it was great [TS]

  because you actually nailed the writing [TS]

  in the commentary no that's very kin