The Incomparable

145: He Lives By a Stupid Code

 

  comfortable number 145 jun 2013 [TS]

  welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

  I'm your host Jason snail and this is [TS]

  one of those very special editions of [TS]

  the uncomfortable where rather than [TS]

  listening to voices far away on skype [TS]

  which is how we normally do these [TS]

  episodes [TS]

  instead i'm in a little room with very [TS]

  little ventilation with three of our [TS]

  fine fine panelists and we're going to [TS]

  discuss television the end of the the [TS]

  most recent TV season and most [TS]

  specifically just as we did in person a [TS]

  year ago [TS]

  Game of Thrones which is one of my [TS]

  favorites and this third season just [TS]

  wrapped up and so we're going to talk [TS]

  about that for a while and then we'll [TS]

  talk about other TV shows at the end if [TS]

  we have time for joining me in this tiny [TS]

  room right across from me right now it's [TS]

  john siracusa hi John [TS]

  the reason our wrists are all tied [TS]

  together and we have switchblades and [TS]

  other hands that part of this [TS]

  no that's just all so this isn't related [TS]

  night for any of you i three East [TS]

  Coasters here so that's that's [TS]

  fascinating it'sit's 5 p.m. pacific as [TS]

  we record this [TS]

  they're tired anyway and more and it's [TS]

  right across from hide an adjacent ICU [TS]

  I didn't know how how do we know John [TS]

  expects me how we have our hand side [TS]

  together and switchblades haven't you [TS]

  seen when the other hand like West Side [TS]

  Story oh icic what you're saying I [TS]

  thought you said like hands that wrist i [TS]

  would like you met the fight I think [TS]

  you're saying I see what you say I've [TS]

  learned all the things you haven't seen [TS]

  maybe you haven't seen with someone here [TS]

  and when you're a jet you're a jet all [TS]

  the way our erica sadun yeah that's [TS]

  video estero y'all busy with when you're [TS]

  on start your ass to your wolf all the [TS]

  way it's basically the game of thrones [TS]

  just on the game of streets [TS]

  yes the the sure that's right that I [TS]

  like it here in Westeros now that [TS]

  doesn't Warner honest else you've just [TS]

  given terrible ideas to somewhere listen [TS]

  you heard serenity couple there who is [TS]

  here as well hi hello good to have you [TS]

  in this little tiny very hot room is [TS]

  good to be here [TS]

  well maybe not in the little tiny room [TS]

  but it's good to be on the podcast yes [TS]

  it's good it's good that we're all here [TS]

  together so game of thrones season three [TS]

  is all this room on the podcast I think [TS]

  Theon's in it for most of us [TS]

  yes huh that's right that's a yeah you [TS]

  know so that was one of the I actually [TS]

  think that was one of the things that [TS]

  worked the least in [TS]

  season three of Game of Thrones let's [TS]

  blow the spoiler horn by the way if you [TS]

  haven't seen season three of Game of [TS]

  Thrones why are you here we're going to [TS]

  split some things you should forward [TS]

  until later later in the podcast where [TS]

  we'll talk about other things look at [TS]

  the show notes and find the time code [TS]

  and jump over this okay [TS]

  and speaking of spoilers i want to thank [TS]

  all the people here on the uncomfortable [TS]

  and who are not on the show who have [TS]

  read the books who managed not to spoil [TS]

  anything in the season for me which must [TS]

  have been difficult it was painful ants [TS]

  you did it well enough that I didn't see [TS]

  any with things coming and I thank you [TS]

  all for that's good so you didn't see [TS]

  the red wedding coming men know like we [TS]

  like to maintain narrative integrity [TS]

  mm you know I was wondering actually [TS]

  during this entire process how because [TS]

  obviously you can go one of the nice [TS]

  things about these books is it that they [TS]

  read sort of like history books but [TS]

  they're not based on real history so you [TS]

  can't just go to Wikipedia and say I [TS]

  wonder how this all turned out because [TS]

  it's all made up kinda can [TS]

  yeah it could be as everybody does yeah [TS]

  well I mean for the books as you're [TS]

  reading them the ropes once all the [TS]

  books are out that mean nobody knows how [TS]

  this how this ends right now because [TS]

  those books have been written but for [TS]

  the TV show it's a different story you [TS]

  could read the books you could read the [TS]

  wiki pages about the books and you can [TS]

  find out everything and I think it's [TS]

  actually pretty cool that despite all of [TS]

  that and the fact that these secret [TS]

  spoilers were out there for I guess he's [TS]

  a storm of swords with our 10 years was [TS]

  written 2000 publishing 2008 let on that [TS]

  night when that episode aired and [TS]

  everybody died at the red wedding the [TS]

  internet exploded how nice is that if [TS]

  something 13 years old people managed to [TS]

  not spoil themselves about it nobody [TS]

  reads books days [TS]

  yeah but really it could spoil [TS]

  themselves on wikipedia the spoiler out [TS]

  there is what I'm saying and yeah it was [TS]

  strangely silent i had a moment of [TS]

  thinking that maybe something else had [TS]

  happened because i didn't watch it right [TS]

  away I had to leave its everybody's [TS]

  freaking out i can't believe it killed [TS]

  the phrase yes [TS]

  whoa that's what's going on but then I [TS]

  realized it was just you know a bunch of [TS]

  people I like whoever said there's [TS]

  someone on Twitter who commented like [TS]

  now you know what all your nerd friends [TS]

  were upset about 13 years ago [TS]

  yeah i think those books are not as [TS]

  popular is like not as broadly popular [TS]

  things right but like the 13 years ago [TS]

  like Lord of the Rings like every nerd [TS]

  universe read Lord of the Rings but not [TS]

  everywhere in our like like wheel of [TS]

  time like I know some people who were [TS]

  able to i'm gonna plenty people who [TS]

  didn't you know below the Rings was it [TS]

  was weird to stage thing to write [TS]

  because it came out and what the fifties [TS]

  sixties but it really achieved [TS]

  popularity soared like a layer 60 [TS]

  seventies when it had like the cultural [TS]

  exactly so I [TS]

  Hobbit I think it's a similar sort of [TS]

  thing with Game of Thrones where you had [TS]

  a lot of people who read fantasy books [TS]

  and even i know some people with more [TS]

  regular fancy book readers but red Game [TS]

  of Thrones back in the late 90s early [TS]

  two thousands but now it's really hit [TS]

  mainstream because of the HBO series you [TS]

  see a lot of people going back and [TS]

  reading it or going back and reading it [TS]

  for the first time so it has that sort [TS]

  of two waves of audience in the same way [TS]

  that I think that Lord of ring did it [TS]

  and i think it doesn't have like the [TS]

  broader to pee like there are certain [TS]

  things we just assume assume all nursing [TS]

  star wars right everyone knows about [TS]

  stars to assume that but in fantasy [TS]

  novels is very few of them that get all [TS]

  the North some friends some people are [TS]

  into we like they read the piers anthony [TS]

  Americans but not all of them some of [TS]

  them are the Dragons books but not all [TS]

  of them talking is the only one we can [TS]

  assume everybody read and so now this [TS]

  one more of a time investment invited to [TS]

  my 5000 you're like right like wheel of [TS]

  time you know like sometimes very large [TS]

  left but not all so they made a wheel of [TS]

  time TV series maybe already happened [TS]

  they did a lot of people would be [TS]

  surprised even among nerds because not [TS]

  everyone ready around all those people [TS]

  be surprised to be like this really [TS]

  crappy and long long long and he's [TS]

  carrying William I'm sure has a [TS]

  satisfying ending so not written by a [TS]

  also different in this season is that [TS]

  they didn't attempt to it adapt all of [TS]

  this massive I think I don't want while [TS]

  widely considered to be the best of the [TS]

  series that storm of swords I think it's [TS]

  the best 12 and but it's very long and [TS]

  they didn't even try they they took some [TS]

  stuff it's not all in the same it's not [TS]

  like they cut the book in half either [TS]

  because there's some stuff that's been [TS]

  moved around the time sequence from the [TS]

  books not going to spoil the books or [TS]

  anything for you generated but they need [TS]

  some really nice editorial decisions in [TS]

  the having this massive of work by [TS]

  george RR martin and plot that they have [TS]

  laid before them they don't they got to [TS]

  like move it around and take it and and [TS]

  and shifted in ways that were really [TS]

  smart that that allowed them to compress [TS]

  the story in some ways that I think they [TS]

  that were clever because even now the [TS]

  season is not a one-to-one there will be [TS]

  some stuff in next season that will be [TS]

  from the third book and then presumably [TS]

  some stuff from the fourth and fifth [TS]

  books too so they're they're they're [TS]

  diverging unlike the first two seasons [TS]

  we're pretty straight copies of the [TS]

  first two books that they're diverging a [TS]

  lot more now [TS]

  yeah I mean well the theme thing in [TS]

  particular I mean again I don't think [TS]

  it's too much boilers say that that's [TS]

  not install sore [TS]

  well that's in a that's elsewhere beyond [TS]

  comes back later and there's a flashback [TS]

  oh I was tortured right and that's all [TS]

  new black Annie lives [TS]

  well does he that's better for a while [TS]

  we all live for a while just that's [TS]

  right well did you know that he was [TS]

  living at the end of this [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah I know but like [TS]

  presumably his story will be told him [TS]

  about my point is that it isn't told [TS]

  while he's being tortured [TS]

  it's more later it's more of a spoiler [TS]

  for reading the books because he at some [TS]

  point disappears off the stage and you [TS]

  don't hear about him provide two books [TS]

  yeah yeah that's right and then finally [TS]

  he reappears were here we see that ok [TS]

  this is what was happening to him [TS]

  although i don't know there were too [TS]

  many of those that went on too long they [TS]

  can I kept going back to them and it was [TS]

  like I don't enjoy watching to watch her [TS]

  is this plotline going to advance or [TS]

  like is there going to be some sort of [TS]

  development it really interesting that [TS]

  they kind of held off until the season [TS]

  finale of this season to say oh this is [TS]

  who this person is that's been torturing [TS]

  him and we finally get the connecting [TS]

  point isn't really a spoiler for future [TS]

  seasons but we get the connecting point [TS]

  of where we meet beyond again in the [TS]

  books which is as a character named reek [TS]

  so it's it's weird that we're going to [TS]

  try and cram this all into the ending I [TS]

  think they were trying to go for an [TS]

  emotional impact where you just feel [TS]

  Theon's been broken down but i think it [TS]

  probably just went on to it they're also [TS]

  going for the double the double hit of [TS]

  the Bolton's right where one of them has [TS]

  betrayed the Starks great family and [TS]

  then meanwhile his bastard son is the [TS]

  one who's been torturing Theon and by [TS]

  the way in that last episode resolving [TS]

  them great mystery that everybody was [TS]

  asking about the last episode last year [TS]

  which is like who who set fire to [TS]

  Winterfell what happened there and it [TS]

  turns out this is all the Bolton's doing [TS]

  and now they're in charge of Winterfell [TS]

  I i gotta say this about about Ramsey [TS]

  though because I mean he's a very [TS]

  notable character in the books because [TS]

  he is basically a psychopath putting it [TS]

  lightly [TS]

  it doesn't mean the same time else's you [TS]

  look like a demented Hobbit I would eat [TS]

  you for my second breakfast [TS]

  yeah yeah curly hair I don't need for [TS]

  God I don't I don't need to see that [TS]

  much torture that's too that's i get an [TS]

  idea right about the ID ask questions [TS]

  like this that's tradition needs [TS]

  it was like the sex position in previous [TS]

  seasons worth like yeah okay you're on [TS]

  HBO [TS]

  I get it but do you have which they [TS]

  didn't do this season so much i think it [TS]

  was like one scene that I would consider [TS]

  the words like well we're on HBO we [TS]

  could have like a and it's watermelon [TS]

  sander is a seducing entry [TS]

  yeah right and it's like why did that [TS]

  was that even necessary but she was just [TS]

  kind of mousey gonna get a leash on him [TS]

  really this is the only way to have the [TS]

  entire Kingsguard your disposal you know [TS]

  the introduction is the only way [TS]

  well the torture was like that for me to [TS]

  it's like having two it is but it's one [TS]

  of my only complaints about this whole [TS]

  season because i really i thought that [TS]

  this was the best of the three seasons [TS]

  and that they really kinda because it [TS]

  because every episode felt more together [TS]

  to me like they were they managed to [TS]

  take these these plot threads and by [TS]

  moving them around create individual [TS]

  episodes that were thematically related [TS]

  in a way that before I felt like they [TS]

  were just kind of spooning out the [TS]

  various plots and in the end of this [TS]

  year we had an episode that was very [TS]

  much about parents and children there [TS]

  was an episode with all these kind of [TS]

  like animal references and people as [TS]

  animals there was the there was the [TS]

  episode about sacrifice there was an you [TS]

  know they they found little dramatic [TS]

  ways of tying these episodes together [TS]

  the the one where that it ends with [TS]

  Littlefinger doing his whole thing about [TS]

  the the climb that was just supposed [TS]

  with it [TS]

  climbing up the wall with Jon Snow and [TS]

  his girlfriend whose name escapes 80 [TS]

  grit [TS]

  um she's a bird she suffered with ye [TS]

  great with a why that I just like that [TS]

  because it that was that struck me as [TS]

  being a really impressive piece of of of [TS]

  writing and of a plot kind of [TS]

  imaginations to get those episodes to [TS]

  feel like they weren't just part of a [TS]

  stream a plot but actually had some [TS]

  things that made them episodes that that [TS]

  that tied them together in that one hour [TS]

  like a more broadly there's that there's [TS]

  a kind of trying to go back to the same [TS]

  well twice this season last season and [TS]

  it's like an overall structural problem [TS]

  the TV show so far is that last season [TS]

  ended with like it look White Walkers [TS]

  are they scary here they come right and [TS]

  like oh goodness the next season those [TS]

  White Walkers and and this season [TS]

  oh goodness why walk around here [TS]

  icon around there like they were coming [TS]

  last day water slowly and they're coming [TS]

  into seekers how many seasons can you [TS]

  get anything what was the end of the [TS]

  season [TS]

  I guess what guys they're coming to come [TS]

  in the way I know they're coming then [TS]

  where are they they're not here like [TS]

  it's just a hit you gotta understand [TS]

  these guys that come in the bed that [TS]

  come in the bed maybe if they you know [TS]

  he likes it's not it's not winter yet [TS]

  right i think that i think that's the [TS]

  this is a problem in the books too is [TS]

  that it's a great opening for opening [TS]

  scene of the TV series and the opening [TS]

  scene of the first book is this gonna be [TS]

  attacking well what's that and then [TS]

  there's nothing more about it forever no [TS]

  i think that works and i thought they [TS]

  were building up to it and it's like [TS]

  what you can't just keep go back into an [TS]

  outlet they keep going back to those [TS]

  guys coming in the second think this is [TS]

  something i do like about it and again I [TS]

  don't know how this actually goes in the [TS]

  books but if you get if you were to do a [TS]

  story like that you've seen the story of [TS]

  like it was a young boy or whatever and [TS]

  he's he's nobody but he used to be [TS]

  somebody and his entire family was [TS]

  killed and he's going to come of age and [TS]

  seek revenge and gain power or whatever [TS]

  right [TS]

  I like a man who do you think that what [TS]

  what yeah what a game of thrones is like [TS]

  is is like don't start the board with [TS]

  the story with the young person whose [TS]

  family was tragically killed and he has [TS]

  to come from nothing whatever start with [TS]

  the family show them all being killed [TS]

  and then the only person left is like [TS]

  you know what's her name aria out there [TS]

  and now she is like the young person [TS]

  whose family but we don't start there we [TS]

  got to see the other family and got to [TS]

  see them all betrayed because you know [TS]

  and realize you don't just come in at [TS]

  the beginning of the hero's journey that [TS]

  you come in here and here was born and [TS]

  right next to the other multiples [TS]

  because you also have brand and Sansa [TS]

  and John slot right to live like because [TS]

  the engineers whose family you should [TS]

  run westwood yeah we didn't get to see [TS]

  that but that's the typical in areas [TS]

  like oh I came from but it's like they [TS]

  decided to start history point and [TS]

  that's why everyone was flipping out [TS]

  because in regular TV shows when you [TS]

  have you know better start at the [TS]

  beginning of the he lived but now he [TS]

  dies all right well then the rest of the [TS]

  darkest me about Rob now they're going [TS]

  to do and so yeah who is less the [TS]

  sopranos it's about the sopranos and [TS]

  then by the third season all the trends [TS]

  attorney to get everything right exactly [TS]

  what but i think that works to help you [TS]

  to help you feel her loss [TS]

  yeah just instead of just starting with [TS]

  her and they sharing some backstory her [TS]

  saying well they killed my parents and a [TS]

  real man [TS]

  about it we're mad about it because we [TS]

  got to see it and we got to know the [TS]

  parents i think that is a good way to [TS]

  have a long-running television show even [TS]

  if people aren't used to it because it [TS]

  accurately reflects how pissed she is [TS]

  basically about what's happened to her [TS]

  family totally hate Joffrey more because [TS]

  of what happened at stark right i mean [TS]

  that that that is a villain who has [TS]

  earned it more by seeing him be [TS]

  villainous and just continuing to live [TS]

  just season after season [TS]

  well there's a I think it makes its a [TS]

  reason to explain to me why even the [TS]

  books i'm more sympathetic to most of [TS]

  the Starks that I am to say dinero so I [TS]

  still think is portrayed as a positive [TS]

  you know protagonist is also a [TS]

  power-hungry like why can't you just [TS]

  have a nice life out there on the plains [TS]

  wasn't wasn't because she's born to be [TS]

  alright but I just fireproof I mean you [TS]

  also here together do something we've [TS]

  got a great when you can you hear about [TS]

  all the stories about all her family but [TS]

  the problem is you get it through very [TS]

  conflicted lenses because you hear about [TS]

  how insane the old king was that these [TS]

  things are like maybe was just a bad [TS]

  thing to be killed also my wife is is [TS]

  reading the first book now after having [TS]

  seen the these three seasons and she and [TS]

  i were talking about how in some ways [TS]

  even though we all think this is the [TS]

  story of the stark so it's so and you're [TS]

  right John that then they all died you [TS]

  realize we're seeing the story of some [TS]

  of these people are picking up the [TS]

  pieces after the Starks homes burned [TS]

  down and most of them are killed but I [TS]

  said in some ways what we're really [TS]

  seeing the story we're really seeing is [TS]

  the story of what happens after that [TS]

  brief period of calm following the [TS]

  destruction of the Targaryen that that [TS]

  that in many ways the story starts with [TS]

  the Mad King being killed by Jaime [TS]

  Lannister and that Robert Baratheon was [TS]

  able to like keep it together for a [TS]

  little while but he was a he was a [TS]

  singular figure and beneath it [TS]

  everybody else was lining up for what [TS]

  was gonna happen when he died and so [TS]

  it's funny that you know we're not [TS]

  seeing the story of the Starks but we're [TS]

  also you know in some ways this is all [TS]

  this is all based on a story that we [TS]

  didn't get to see which and and not even [TS]

  in flashback right which is just they [TS]

  keep talking about Robert's rebellion we [TS]

  don't get to see it but that's where [TS]

  everything went to hell because the [TS]

  Targaryen is ruled for whatever like a [TS]

  thousand years or hundreds of years or [TS]

  Die don't even know that's why are times [TS]

  when it looks like a token type things [TS]

  like I'm not writing fiction story this [TS]

  is found history because it stands out [TS]

  in both directions right and [TS]

  it just keeps going on back to the past [TS]

  and we have to start the story somewhere [TS]

  but don't like we're just because [TS]

  someone is the robber would be boring [TS]

  right it's just like he was bad he went [TS]

  hunting everybody was okay the Targaryen [TS]

  weren't around anymore they were crazy [TS]

  anyway but we do have that in the [TS]

  background so that we understand to [TS]

  narrow this whole little little game [TS]

  which I actually kind of like this [TS]

  season this season you get more of a [TS]

  sense of like before she was the [TS]

  underdog and we're kind of rooting for [TS]

  like you know she's last four kind and [TS]

  they they deposed and sure maybe that [TS]

  relative was crazy but she's plucky and [TS]

  she's gonna come back and in this season [TS]

  especially leading up to this last [TS]

  episode I kept looking at her actions [TS]

  and thinking oh she's a Targaryen she's [TS]

  let's wait a second but they were they [TS]

  were kind kind of dangerous when we [TS]

  didn't do such a wonderful thing I mean [TS]

  like that you've got spunk butts this [TS]

  Punk is one thing and then after you've [TS]

  liked destroyed two cities and it's not [TS]

  spunk anymore now you just now your [TS]

  problems just want to be a have to be a [TS]

  conqueror to be queen right yeah well [TS]

  she's proving that she's you know she's [TS]

  she's not just uh oh I wish it was [TS]

  I wish I could go back home and then [TS]

  become the queen she's like me i'm going [TS]

  to take some stuff over over here [TS]

  she's had a really tough life I mean you [TS]

  think about the fact that she was [TS]

  basically left 4 door like everybody [TS]

  thought she was dead she was shuffled [TS]

  off of her home she watched her parents [TS]

  died she had to grow up with her crazy [TS]

  decreasing technically she didn't watch [TS]

  her parents died I think she was she was [TS]

  a baby and was spirited away she's I [TS]

  think she's she supposed to be a toddler [TS]

  I feel like she's gonna she's a couple [TS]

  of years old and she's a baby I think [TS]

  she was a maybe in her brother who who [TS]

  got his head melted by the way you left [TS]

  out of among her list of traumas her [TS]

  brother got his head melted [TS]

  well I'm kind of a good thing and there [TS]

  is another killer brother yeah there was [TS]

  another there's another brother too i [TS]

  think in there too with the brother who [TS]

  has rescued bringing back [TS]

  yes to marry or yeah there's there's [TS]

  more there yes times on a street all the [TS]

  ternary I wash the show though having [TS]

  read the books the more i think that the [TS]

  show is angling Denarius as the [TS]

  protagonist for Game of Thrones maybe [TS]

  not so much for something like excited [TS]

  but who I just never bought into I i [TS]

  want this point I feel like aria is our [TS]

  it [TS]

  bizarre is our hero maybe she does the [TS]

  most campus episode 1 of whatever [TS]

  because she shouldn't choose she's like [TS]

  survived against all odds but in typical [TS]

  TV show like your hero like should have [TS]

  died long ago and survives and everyone [TS]

  else is around his dying she should have [TS]

  been dead a hundred times over and just [TS]

  like through sheer luck in her own you [TS]

  know wherewithal not saying it's [TS]

  unrealistic understand like she fits the [TS]

  mold of the character who boy look at [TS]

  her she's still managed to stay alive [TS]

  against all odds and alignment behind [TS]

  this series is that you know that the [TS]

  molds don't always apply like that's you [TS]

  know in the same way that my friend [TS]

  Brian who is my one of my roommates in [TS]

  college was the first one to recommend [TS]

  game of thrones to me and when I asked [TS]

  him about it was like oh this is a fancy [TS]

  book but the difference between it and [TS]

  all the other fancy books read is people [TS]

  get into impossible situations and then [TS]

  they don't get out of them and to me you [TS]

  know that that is what is the main [TS]

  attraction of Game of Thrones especially [TS]

  put up against something like Tolkien [TS]

  which is very much typical heroic mould [TS]

  is that stuff doesn't quite fit into the [TS]

  same pattern sure there's always [TS]

  templates and stuff you can apply and [TS]

  there's there's partial matches here and [TS]

  there but overall the story itself [TS]

  doesn't necessarily take all the boxes [TS]

  things that you think would happen based [TS]

  on this character did this in this in [TS]

  this net position them to do this [TS]

  oh wait they're just been murdered you [TS]

  don't like that it doesn't know exactly [TS]

  I don't want it [TS]

  it's mario it's like the wire in that [TS]

  and it's more realistic wear that like [TS]

  all these sort of smart people who do [TS]

  the right thing repeatedly and our [TS]

  heroic and daring and calculating and [TS]

  set themselves up for victory and a good [TS]

  life and then just make a misstep right [TS]

  and and and that's it like with Robb [TS]

  Stark [TS]

  he he did a good job more or less won [TS]

  every battle yell at me but he won every [TS]

  battle like an achy he had his doubts [TS]

  and he had his problems and he made some [TS]

  mistakes and everything and when he went [TS]

  off to get married I'm like this is not [TS]

  gonna go well but I didn't think [TS]

  everybody would die you know you figure [TS]

  especially they did the great misdirect [TS]

  on the television show where they you [TS]

  know I when I started to know what's [TS]

  gonna happen i knew that it was not [TS]

  gonna go off the way they thought it [TS]

  because Walter frame the show is just [TS]

  like a little cereal but but what they [TS]

  did was like oh and they do the stuff [TS]

  the telegraphing to the viewers hear [TS]

  something Bad's gonna happen and they [TS]

  shoot them like in the shoulders with [TS]

  arrows and I go see everything's going [TS]

  bad but the shot in the show that's what [TS]

  they always do it like you wanted a [TS]

  non-fatal you want some [TS]

  want to live like egret shooting guns [TS]

  snow at like nine times the arrow but [TS]

  none of them merged center mass so you [TS]

  figure well I mean he's alive at the end [TS]

  of the size and whatever purpose right [TS]

  perhaps maybe well she loves him too [TS]

  much yeah and sorry i love you so much [TS]

  i'll shoot you would be fatally she [TS]

  loves it a lot but not if she doesn't [TS]

  want to feel some pain yes right but [TS]

  anyway but they they got shot both of [TS]

  them Rob and his mother got shot like in [TS]

  the shoulders and the leg or whatever [TS]

  you and your like and that was what [TS]

  you'd expect from a TV show because i [TS]

  thought was gonna go out and didn't go [TS]

  out like all they all lived and then [TS]

  like they cut away for something else [TS]

  and they cut back and like help but now [TS]

  they're finishing the job and kill you [TS]

  and like as soon as it as soon as [TS]

  someone took the Walter phrase a wife [TS]

  and held hostage was like I can do [TS]

  anything [TS]

  are you done yeah i mean after all the [TS]

  viewers know that is usually just the [TS]

  most beautiful one to me was still the [TS]

  Rob's wife like that scene is just that [TS]

  was yes [TS]

  oh my god like that and that are [TS]

  expected to die because we will [TS]

  introduce the seasons the innocent she [TS]

  had a fairytale story she would die to [TS]

  punish Rob and he would always regret [TS]

  her death and here we got her death like [TS]

  five minutes he didn't have a lot of [TS]

  time you learned a valuable lesson and [TS]

  I'd yeah it's a that's it that's [TS]

  actually a book change where they've got [TS]

  so much more sympathetic character in [TS]

  the novel he marries sort of a she's no [TS]

  shot and cycling essentially and and and [TS]

  it's and they make her pregnant and [TS]

  she's she's likeable and smart and it [TS]

  hurts [TS]

  we also never heard never get in the [TS]

  book [TS]

  despite Rob being such a central [TS]

  character he's never a few points right [TS]

  so he never gets boring series and he [TS]

  feels much more present in the TV show [TS]

  absolutely and he's very dashing and [TS]

  he's he's felt he's struggling with [TS]

  Joffrey isn't right he's the young guy [TS]

  who really could be the king who he's [TS]

  made some bad decisions but he is he's [TS]

  kind of like his father right he's he's [TS]

  we like him and his hearts in the right [TS]

  place for you nobody has some stuff and [TS]

  gets himself killed many and he has [TS]

  reached he had his doubts in the [TS]

  beginning like I am I going to be king [TS]

  of the north and kind of had to be have [TS]

  it thrust upon him but the ones who took [TS]

  the mantle of it is like all right let's [TS]

  run with this and we can get it done and [TS]

  he seems competent and everything and [TS]

  you know and and I thought he seemed [TS]

  hard-nosed enough to get the job done [TS]

  adjusted at I mean I blame his mother [TS]

  because on the show she's the one he [TS]

  went to her for advice and she's the one [TS]

  you know what we should go [TS]

  let's go just go let's go to that let's [TS]

  go get married like I married we should [TS]

  do it and that was something that was [TS]

  the wrong call that bed call when the [TS]

  other person that's surprisingly [TS]

  sympathetic I found in this season is a [TS]

  time Lannister [TS]

  mmm yeah he suddenly become like my [TS]

  favorite guys here's my great is like [TS]

  Charles looks I need to rule the world [TS]

  will you people stop getting in my way [TS]

  if you would just put a vicious put him [TS]

  in charge and everything will be better [TS]

  in kind of the it for the peasants [TS]

  because he would like slaughter all the [TS]

  other families and get everyone in line [TS]

  and the peasants would be like finally [TS]

  peace time again and and yet he yes the [TS]

  control like from the shadows or [TS]

  whatever and I feel his frustration is [TS]

  like I'm surrounded by idiots and my [TS]

  little dwarf Sun is always whining to me [TS]

  and Joffrey is just terrible and I have [TS]

  to like send him to bed and you know god [TS]

  he someone's making a throne room and [TS]

  have to walk all the way down there and [TS]

  go [TS]

  he's um it's funny because you know [TS]

  first off we're not supposed to like the [TS]

  Lannisters but it's such a great [TS]

  character and you get the sense that [TS]

  he's you know he's a professional [TS]

  he knows what he's doing we may not like [TS]

  what he's doing a professional terrible [TS]

  person but he knows what he's doing he [TS]

  really does and in fact you could argue [TS]

  that what he's doing may lead to a lot [TS]

  less pain and chaos in in the net as [TS]

  what a lot of other people are doing [TS]

  even though in the sensitivity it's also [TS]

  we don't like him in the words of you [TS]

  know the words of the wire he's also you [TS]

  know a man with a code in that you know [TS]

  i'm not particularly like that scene in [TS]

  the last episode which were they talk [TS]

  about your family is so important and so [TS]

  clearly he believes that he has a very [TS]

  twisted view what the code the code is [TS]

  nonsensical but everyone is consistent [TS]

  yeah like and so that to me and [TS]

  especially doesn't care about his family [TS]

  enough to actually loved his he can [TS]

  write he loves the feel of the know and [TS]

  I don't have to kill him [TS]

  yeah yeah but I'm ages love the wind i [TS]

  minus all season my favorite seen all [TS]

  season i think has to do with him [TS]

  interacting with diana rigg yeah [TS]

  please baby lady Tyrell oh yeah the two [TS]

  of them were just saying i have expected [TS]

  one of the black leadership across table [TS]

  kiss exactly shove everything off the [TS]

  table in serving yeah we were made for [TS]

  each other and the off-screen yeah I [TS]

  keep waiting for Tywin's back story [TS]

  because especially when he was talking [TS]

  about his son of it because something [TS]

  made Tywin Lannister and you think it [TS]

  would have to be some formative [TS]

  experience as a child where he adopted [TS]

  the code of family first and family [TS]

  above all or whatever i don't know if [TS]

  we'll ever get his backstory but he is [TS]

  he's interesting to me in a way that in [TS]

  this in this you're Tyrion like you [TS]

  think but I guess kids don't get over [TS]

  get over is like he's always looking for [TS]

  his father's love and a certain point [TS]

  earrings got away look it's not gonna [TS]

  happen dude and you're like the worst [TS]

  thing about their relationship as they [TS]

  are the most alike i know he is his [TS]

  father's friend it's okay for right and [TS]

  to see them bounce off each other and [TS]

  that's that's time was failing is like I [TS]

  think he should be smart enough to see [TS]

  look you had all these children and that [TS]

  one is the only you can't get over his [TS]

  hatred of Tyrion enough to realize that [TS]

  he is the best kid he is and he has the [TS]

  most value of all his people and he is [TS]

  so much like him like he's basically his [TS]

  father but with a self-esteem problem [TS]

  well it's just horrifying to tie when [TS]

  you really think about it is that he [TS]

  doesn't want to be known as his legacy [TS]

  is his dwarf Sun who killed his wife and [TS]

  taiwan i mean we don't get a lot of [TS]

  straightforward backstory on time when [TS]

  but you get hints [TS]

  I mean you get the fact that he [TS]

  basically had to deal with the [TS]

  Revolution and the uprising against the [TS]

  King his only son joined the Kingsguard [TS]

  and basically you know secondly cut [TS]

  yourself cut yourself off from any kind [TS]

  of ordinary life and when he said he sat [TS]

  out the civil war and that actually came [TS]

  up in the last episode that was a [TS]

  fascinating little tidbit right now is [TS]

  that he sat out the civil war that was [TS]

  the smart move but you still feels well [TS]

  until like me who want to win [TS]

  yeah and then his son killed the king [TS]

  and in retrospect and I think if Tyrion [TS]

  in some ways doesn't get as much to do [TS]

  this season by comparison he was helps a [TS]

  lot but he doesn't this is strange [TS]

  because that you know is the character [TS]

  was such a breakout character for the [TS]

  for the both for the books and I was [TS]

  concerned actually about the season [TS]

  because in the books he doesn't have a [TS]

  lot to do he's kind of just moping [TS]

  because he's gotten he did this great [TS]

  thing and nobody cares people tried to [TS]

  kill me feels under marry this person is [TS]

  God although i did i did like especially [TS]

  in that we get one brief look into his [TS]

  marriage before it basically all go [TS]

  south in the in the last episode there [TS]

  where he and sands are walking in the [TS]

  garden keep shifting yeah one talk about [TS]

  that and talking about the you know what [TS]

  are we gonna do to these people and [TS]

  there's a there's a moment there where [TS]

  you feel like oh maybe they can make [TS]

  babies [TS]

  kids making you already said that [TS]

  Hardware yes then pregnant her brother [TS]

  than that everything just seems like [TS]

  it's going on his family killed all of [TS]

  her family you know everyone like who [TS]

  hasn't killed his dark at this point I [TS]

  just got to think this guy thing to do [TS]

  is get some deniability something you [TS]

  said earlier about this is this the [TS]

  strength of Martin's story too is it's [TS]

  we expect a story with protagonist and [TS]

  antagonist and we don't get it and [TS]

  instead we get this weird it's almost [TS]

  like survivor where we have many [TS]

  protagonists and presumably some of them [TS]

  will make it but others won't [TS]

  and the antagonist I mean and some [TS]

  people rise and fall but it's like you [TS]

  you mentioned Aria and you mentioned an [TS]

  heiress and there's also a Jon Snow [TS]

  who's that who's are you one of my [TS]

  favorite characters and he knows nothing [TS]

  but he's an interesting character and we [TS]

  learned that he has like you know he's [TS]

  got some is lame-o he's got a little [TS]

  yeah and then there's and then there's [TS]

  brand who's got super animal power [TS]

  yeah right brand is another one who [TS]

  should not be alive liked by all rights [TS]

  and just through happenstance and lock [TS]

  and Hodor Hodor has like I was watching [TS]

  them with my wife was like don't they [TS]

  all realize that like when the kids are [TS]

  wandering around and they're like you [TS]

  know you staying one step ahead of the [TS]

  enemy their entire survival depends on [TS]

  hold or because the potent as they can [TS]

  no longer move one of the kids can carry [TS]

  brand and then they go importantly there [TS]

  is everything going over right from the [TS]

  rough terrain in the north and her doors [TS]

  got Brandon like a wheelbarrow and omega [TS]

  restaurant so it won't hold our gets [TS]

  knocked out they can move brain anymore [TS]

  yeah because they get a please sir can I [TS]

  help i have a start right here and we'll [TS]

  just put possess Hodor i guess and make [TS]

  him push the things he gets killed like [TS]

  they treat her like a lady was not [TS]

  behold or your Survival plans on hold or [TS]

  is the most important character this [TS]

  season yeah I was gonna say in terms of [TS]

  antagonist and protagonist i'm curious [TS]

  how you John especially is used as the [TS]

  person who hasn't read the books [TS]

  how did you feel about Jaime Lannister [TS]

  Jamie this is the great turn of Jimmy [TS]

  Lamia label I mean Jamie was fitting [TS]

  like they had him being you know the [TS]

  Kingslayer guy but all these kind of [TS]

  said because you know what first was [TS]

  having sex with his sister [TS]

  so that's that's a that's gonna get some [TS]

  you get all self guilt there and [TS]

  and is like everyone thinks I'm a [TS]

  kingslayer just gonna kill one king [TS]

  yeah you're one getting all this on your [TS]

  King's lair and then someone gets his [TS]

  hand cut off and humbled and everything [TS]

  but you always they always portrayed him [TS]

  as like there was there was a part of [TS]

  goodness in him a lot of the bad things [TS]

  he did were like self spite like what [TS]

  you find if you think I'm a bad guy [TS]

  while I'm gonna act like a bad guy and [TS]

  everyone in this world has like the [TS]

  moral flexibility to just be killing [TS]

  children left and right or you know and [TS]

  paying attention to beggars and stuff [TS]

  but it you know given that baseline he [TS]

  does have some sort of heart of goodness [TS]

  my head to come how many saves your [TS]

  money and ran from the bear and all that [TS]

  other stuff right now the pair and now [TS]

  but I was said when I saw him go back to [TS]

  his evil sister because it's like you [TS]

  should you should have [TS]

  yes but she's disgusted by a stump maybe [TS]

  well but this didn't have to show you [TS]

  long enough for like this turnabout [TS]

  should have made him like you know [TS]

  realize that everything out that he [TS]

  shouldn't be associating with you but he [TS]

  still holds out and then he comes and [TS]

  are you like shrugs the stump like man I [TS]

  I but that I feel like that's that's one [TS]

  of those questions for us to ponder [TS]

  between the seasons like what what is [TS]

  this relationship between them now [TS]

  didn't rush into each other's anything [TS]

  but he's too self-centered to ever be a [TS]

  story arc hero except circumstantially [TS]

  because he cares about himself and his [TS]

  own image of himself and all that stuff [TS]

  he does not care who wins the war what [TS]

  side is on what battle he doesn't care [TS]

  about family so much he's like I always [TS]

  thought he was Prince Humperdinck so [TS]

  well I and I think it's very interesting [TS]

  because you know if you have read the [TS]

  books then you start out of seeing him [TS]

  is the guy who throws breaking out a [TS]

  window right you're like there's no [TS]

  coming back and coming back from them [TS]

  and at a certain point in storage i [TS]

  believe he becomes a viewpoint [TS]

  characters you actually get into his [TS]

  head during all those moments when he's [TS]

  white riding with Brienne and he is you [TS]

  know he does you come around on him a [TS]

  little bit you're right about what [TS]

  you're right there's it'sit's hard he [TS]

  harnessed sired an arrogant and all of [TS]

  those things but there's a redemptive [TS]

  quality it's amazing how far we come [TS]

  with Jamie in this season where he's not [TS]

  the villain he's questionable in lots of [TS]

  ways but he also went back and he [TS]

  doesn't work and you feel bad about [TS]

  about how he's treated and even when [TS]

  using with brie and like I feel itís at [TS]

  certain points that he could have killed [TS]

  her and escaped [TS]

  yeah but didn't and like when they're [TS]

  fighting on the bridge and everything he [TS]

  would buy that point was hungry and [TS]

  stuff like that but like if it is [TS]

  he was bent on killing her like he [TS]

  gained respect for her in that respect [TS]

  cause I'm not to be terrible but like [TS]

  pushing bring out the window at this [TS]

  point everyone in this world I feel like [TS]

  it's like you just killed one kid like [TS]

  it killed all the line didn't kill I [TS]

  nobody tries like any kid comes in the [TS]

  window and you're like I became the one [TS]

  who was knowing that killed is like life [TS]

  is so cheap and in this world of [TS]

  Westeros that everybody has that [TS]

  baseline of I've killed you came out [TS]

  know who hasn't the mountain ass Aria if [TS]

  that was the first man she killed with [TS]

  guilt or the dogs are out is that the [TS]

  first man you killed that shit or is the [TS]

  first one you've killed she's the first [TS]

  man i'm not mentioning the boy I killed [TS]

  right in fact with the people i ordered [TS]

  to be killed by assassins but this was [TS]

  the first man that I actually stabbed [TS]

  until he was dead [TS]

  yes and and even and even men like [TS]

  people die all the time in that they're [TS]

  not a higher class whatever so him [TS]

  pushing bring out the window just [TS]

  establishes that he's a character in [TS]

  this world more flexibility is not just [TS]

  like yeah you know it takes a lot to to [TS]

  be looked down upon us like and like you [TS]

  know you have to be whatever Ramses is [TS]

  clearing guys chaotic neutral [TS]

  yeah i mean everybody is like in it and [TS]

  almost nobody anybody lawful good would [TS]

  be dead in five seconds on the unit but [TS]

  my clarinet is that he was again I don't [TS]

  know if he was lawful good was he [TS]

  laughing I i was going to say unless the [TS]

  red God keeps resurrecting them like [TS]

  beric Dondarrion has which is a [TS]

  fascinating well that that's one of my [TS]

  favorite most memorable scenes from all [TS]

  these books is that the battle between [TS]

  the dog and and Dondarrion with the red [TS]

  priest in the Brotherhood without [TS]

  banners looking on [TS]

  we like all right there's gonna be a day [TS]

  they got to take this guy down its gonna [TS]

  know he killed the other guy [TS]

  wait for the other guy came back to life [TS]

  what the hell is going on group you're [TS]

  okay so what happened also we also then [TS]

  kind of walk away from it at that point [TS]

  and yes really yes but this is this is [TS]

  yes very good Martin does that i really [TS]

  like which is instead of it being all [TS]

  magic and fairies and everybody's [TS]

  casting spells it's like you you get [TS]

  lulled into thinking that this world [TS]

  ladies and magical rules and then [TS]

  there's something I enjoy hold my god [TS]

  but so is everyone else in the book [TS]

  anyone else in the book is like because [TS]

  they were not hell is that those dragons [TS]

  yes I said the Dragons they're White [TS]

  Walkers okay but otherwise and yeah i [TS]

  know she took the leech and threw it in [TS]

  and then [TS]

  Rob died i wanted gonna complain chance [TS]

  but then the guy comes back to life and [TS]

  says yeah I've actually come back to [TS]

  life many times in the last few months [TS]

  although yeah all my friendly to is the [TS]

  other the other chefs yeah right [TS]

  this event that the power because [TS]

  they're not happening all the time [TS]

  that's a mysterious thing about like the [TS]

  you know the red woman and that whole [TS]

  religion thing is I think the show is [TS]

  done a good job of walking the line [TS]

  between especially when you put any kind [TS]

  of religion show a lot of people want to [TS]

  latch onto like the good religion was [TS]

  like the good god or the bandits like [TS]

  I'm some of these the heroic eyes [TS]

  because like if they did come back to [TS]

  life and if you come back to life is not [TS]

  like a are a good thing that your God [TS]

  does but that's God doesn't seem like [TS]

  the night is dark and full of terrors [TS]

  wait what like it's not quite sure [TS]

  whether to whether to be on board with [TS]

  like is their mission actually righteous [TS]

  or they're all crazy or is this like a [TS]

  devil God or is it just like you know [TS]

  that that they walked a good lineup is I [TS]

  don't wanna not a morality god I don't [TS]

  come down saying like oh that that is [TS]

  she's a demon woman you have to kill it [TS]

  was occasionally like the guy who is [TS]

  under her spell more or less is it seems [TS]

  like a reasonably good guys right and [TS]

  he's got you know the half hand who's [TS]

  like we're all written for him right and [TS]

  they're over there doing their thing [TS]

  when she got the red woman and I can't I [TS]

  don't immediately label them as an enemy [TS]

  and they're certainly not the heroes [TS]

  either but they do have magic on their [TS]

  side so it's like you know the other [TS]

  guys don't [TS]

  the Lannisters are resurrecting people [TS]

  from the dead they also there's that [TS]

  question of what if the person you don't [TS]

  like ends up being right and and then [TS]

  melisendra comes across as being so [TS]

  creepy and weird and awful and yet you [TS]

  know we know that there are these White [TS]

  Walkers up in the IC territory waiting [TS]

  for the winter to come so that they can [TS]

  come down and kill everybody and she's [TS]

  in the south and has this fire magic [TS]

  it's like okay [TS]

  a song of fire and I system and the [TS]

  series right so it's like wait a second [TS]

  so is this crazy lady actually the one [TS]

  who's got the power to destroy the the [TS]

  ISIS zombies don't also forget Daenerys [TS]

  has fire to Paris is a fire when we know [TS]

  the Dragonstone kill zombies because [TS]

  Sam's the Samwise I mean Sam well [TS]

  yeah I figured that one out in a nice [TS]

  cross one of the nice things that I like [TS]

  about this is occasionally those [TS]

  storylines intersected I didn't last [TS]

  episode where they're looking down the [TS]

  well and saying oh somebody's coming [TS]

  what's going to go on I'm like oh you [TS]

  know who that is [TS]

  it's gonna be something that's great and [TS]

  then they do their little win Sam and [TS]

  Gilly and the baby and they do their [TS]

  little cross and then they take the [TS]

  wheelbarrow out to the I'd like to pause [TS]

  for a moment to tell you all about our [TS]

  sponsor again I know this is hard to [TS]

  believe the incomparable has a sponsor [TS]

  can you believe it that we have a [TS]

  sponsor we do you tell me about sponsor [TS]

  well they wouldn't be sponsored by [TS]

  didn't tell you tell me nothing about [TS]

  this there's a silent partner [TS]

  I want to get fired a spoiler horn [TS]

  before your new favorite spots are we [TS]

  gonna find that sponsor horns sponsors [TS]

  sponsors coming [TS]

  I the sponsor is a product that i [TS]

  actually used I bought this in December [TS]

  23andme dot-com it is a website that [TS]

  does a genetic profile of you you they [TS]

  send you a little tube you you spit in [TS]

  the tube you send it off and then [TS]

  magical computers do things and tell you [TS]

  the facts about yourself [TS]

  there-there's health information they [TS]

  talk about their there's some [TS]

  information about how Eugene's may [TS]

  impact your health [TS]

  there are these trade and ancestry [TS]

  reports that tell you a lot of really [TS]

  amusing things like well they don't tell [TS]

  me if I if I do like cilantro or not [TS]

  spoiler I don't hate it but they like so [TS]

  they tell you exactly but they they they [TS]

  may explain that it has a genetic basis [TS]

  there's a percentage of Neanderthal DNA [TS]

  i have a high percentage me and only ok [TS]

  so I'm feeling really didn't know we'd [TS]

  need a service to tell us 90 90 gonna [TS]

  say if you're related to Robert [TS]

  Baratheon it's it doesn't say about if [TS]

  they had this in the game of thrones [TS]

  that would have been so useful [TS]

  there's there's a Lannisters there's a [TS]

  caffeine metabolization tendency which [TS]

  is fascinating i discover how that my [TS]

  wife and I because we both took the test [TS]

  metabolize caffeine in different ways [TS]

  which is really interesting you can find [TS]

  relatives that you didn't know you had [TS]

  not only is there some family tree stuff [TS]

  in there but it will compare your [TS]

  genetic profile and say this person is [TS]

  probably a third cousin explain a jump [TS]

  John I talk like ah you know why people [TS]

  here are so like I think we need to get [TS]

  as we need to get all the audio genetic [TS]

  sound things income got a quarter [TS]

  million members of 23andme so there's a [TS]

  big database so they can do some really [TS]

  interesting matches i also really like [TS]

  when I went through this experience that [TS]

  the the 23andme website is is very [TS]

  understanding and and delicate i know [TS]

  that a lot of people have fear of like [TS]

  they're gonna tell me things that I'm [TS]

  I'm concerned about that i might not [TS]

  want to know about my medical history [TS]

  about my relative history [TS]

  nobody should know too much about their [TS]

  futures so what the nice thing about [TS]

  about the the 23andme website is that [TS]

  every time there's something that might [TS]

  be perceived as sensitive like do you [TS]

  really want to know about your [TS]

  percentage chance of this kind of gene [TS]

  for a4 maybe maybe a cancer gene or [TS]

  something like that or to disclose if [TS]

  you have relatives you may not know you [TS]

  have it asks which I really like so it's [TS]

  not as if you [TS]

  pandora's box is opened when you do this [TS]

  test you can get as much information as [TS]

  you want and as you're comfortable with [TS]

  you can choose to share with the other [TS]

  people in the service or not I had a lot [TS]

  of fun doing this I found out a lot [TS]

  about my ancestry which in my case [TS]

  turned out to be you you're from [TS]

  European stock during the Ice Age you [TS]

  hit by the south-south part of europe by [TS]

  the Mediterranean you literally honestly [TS]

  yeah my people hid by the Mediterranean [TS]

  they were all like winter is coming [TS]

  winter is contractors come right and [TS]

  wait for the ice to melt and then they [TS]

  went back north and they went to the [TS]

  British Isles are descended from white [TS]

  Walker yes so exactly essentially that [TS]

  that's the that's the case so that was [TS]

  fascinating you know and and so you can [TS]

  find out like maybe you've got ancestry [TS]

  from all sorts of interest interesting [TS]

  parts of the world so I knew I thought [TS]

  it was I thought was really cool big [TS]

  it's a fun service we have a we have a [TS]

  special URL for incomparable listeners [TS]

  it's 99 bucks remember when DNA [TS]

  sequencing with science fiction [TS]

  well now not only is it fact but it's [TS]

  it's it's 99 bucks to do this you get [TS]

  your data it goes in the database and [TS]

  then there are all these web features [TS]

  there is a website it's not a secret [TS]

  it's 23andme dot-com / incomparable go [TS]

  there [TS]

  order the DNA kit and find out about who [TS]

  you are where you came from and if you [TS]

  like cilantro or not what you already [TS]

  know but now you can find out why that [TS]

  when people make fun of you for not [TS]

  liking the cilantro that's in the [TS]

  welcome only you could say it's in my [TS]

  genes she's like battle definitely [TS]

  sounds more informative than the last [TS]

  time I spat into been mailed it off but [TS]

  that's right i'm sure that worked well [TS]

  for you that's right so thank you 23 me [TS]

  for keeping this podcast afloat this [TS]

  world has another good thing going for [TS]

  in that everybody who wants power [TS]

  shouldn't be allowed to have it which is [TS]

  pretty thing seems realistic because [TS]

  like Ned does not want power he was the [TS]

  only one worthy of it and everybody else [TS]

  wanted wants to be king wants to gain [TS]

  territories and every single one of them [TS]

  to a person you is like bad in some way [TS]

  you know and the only people who [TS]

  actually seem to have any goodness don't [TS]

  want power would try to reject it if it [TS]

  was offered and that's an idealistic way [TS]

  to look at the world right like the only [TS]

  people who are deserving of power the [TS]

  ones who don't want it because they're [TS]

  the ones who will really quick and worse [TS]

  guy that people who are to have it [TS]

  thrust upon them [TS]

  it destroys them and and with Ned it's [TS]

  quite literally destroyed him and with [TS]

  Tyrion he gets his first opportunity [TS]

  they tried to kill him and they kicked [TS]

  him out into the into the cellar and he [TS]

  did a good job with his power when he [TS]

  had thrust upon him but they don't they [TS]

  kick them out so those people you know [TS]

  we we wish for them to have the power [TS]

  even though they don't want it but it [TS]

  doesn't end well for them so i love that [TS]

  there's no real good solution it's kind [TS]

  of it's kind of like Vera see more [TS]

  sympathetic because Littlefinger wants [TS]

  power you do not want him to have it [TS]

  like that climb speeches like are we [TS]

  always knew he was like but also you [TS]

  feel like he's never going to get it [TS]

  because he has many schemes and whatever [TS]

  but like the season where they say [TS]

  underachiever he could if he could set [TS]

  the whole world on fire and rule over [TS]

  the ashes he would write yeah him and [TS]

  but Vera seems like he's like I'm not [TS]

  actually going to pursue pi want to have [TS]

  power and control within the world that [TS]

  we have it but he is not angling to be [TS]

  can he's amazingly sympathetic III in [TS]

  the books i never found him that [TS]

  sympathetic but in especially the last [TS]

  episode of the season heat you get the [TS]

  sense that he does have a lot of limits [TS]

  to what he will do and he's playing a [TS]

  game that isn't for his personal yeah [TS]

  everything is he has got to get [TS]

  something that he's working toward but [TS]

  it's not all seeing exalted also stupid [TS]

  code button and the thing with Paris [TS]

  that they do it it's hard to tell with [TS]

  theirs because the books i always did [TS]

  like him in the books and I think the [TS]

  trick was it's hard with him even more [TS]

  than with Littlefinger to figure out [TS]

  exactly like little [TS]

  you're used to assume he's always lying [TS]

  no matter who he's talking to right he's [TS]

  always telling whatever will best serve [TS]

  him in that moment various is a little [TS]

  trickier but it's hard to tell exactly [TS]

  where his allegiances lie do they even [TS]

  have an allegiance in terms of I don't [TS]

  think he has nobody told me that [TS]

  decision he has a goal state of the [TS]

  world and work towards making it that [TS]

  state and that state is fairly [TS]

  nonsensical but that's what he's working [TS]

  towards and so right but he's it's hard [TS]

  to tell like in that last episode he [TS]

  comes across seeming very noble and [TS]

  sympathetic when he offers to buy che [TS]

  like a trip home [TS]

  well I did but everything I believed him [TS]

  when he said you're a complication [TS]

  that's why i asked to go away like he [TS]

  doesn't care about her safety [TS]

  nobody but he's like you it would be [TS]

  easier for me to plot if you're not here [TS]

  right now but he also he also think in [TS]

  some ways you have to also remember that [TS]

  that means she distracts Tyrion which he [TS]

  plays off as you might get him killed [TS]

  but the same time having Tyrion not [TS]

  around would also be one less [TS]

  complication for him yeah someone who's [TS]

  actually closer to let I think he would [TS]

  rather use Tyrion to get things done and [TS]

  then the same killed off everything like [TS]

  the thing i would think it was getting [TS]

  at is like if she is killed [TS]

  that's going to make tiering flip out [TS]

  and flipped out Tyrion is much more [TS]

  difficult to manipulate and work with [TS]

  you know well and also have flipped out [TS]

  che is enough to make the whole [TS]

  situation go catastrophic very quickly [TS]

  because she knows quite a lot [TS]

  yeah yeah it has access to the of the [TS]

  man but if he but he was little finger [TS]

  he would just shake killed since being a [TS]

  little bit little finger there that is [TS]

  another way to read that is that little [TS]

  fingers kind of putting the moves on [TS]

  science' but then Santa gets coupled [TS]

  with Tyrion so by keeping che out of the [TS]

  picture she's keeping Sansa attached to [TS]

  Tyrion which maybe foils what little [TS]

  finger was trying to do plus a little [TS]

  fingers obsessed with that there's a [TS]

  Batali women there's a there's a reason [TS]

  that they call him the spider [TS]

  yes very his web his games that he's [TS]

  playing fascinating character so John [TS]

  I'd be interested to hear what you think [TS]

  Littlefinger is up to the way they've [TS]

  been playing him in the series is that [TS]

  that he at once personal power and he [TS]

  believes it is possible to through a [TS]

  series of law a long game of doing moves [TS]

  that he can somehow rise to power by [TS]

  causing everyone else to fall down like [TS]

  a bit personal power is his goal and [TS]

  that they haven't given enough back to [TS]

  review [TS]

  understand why then he's just like a [TS]

  megalomaniac but like in this world is [TS]

  such a class system it's so hard to come [TS]

  from anything except for already having [TS]

  a name to getting one and he's like he's [TS]

  like the American Dream trying to come [TS]

  to pass the only way the American Dream [TS]

  time passes by a terrible terrible [TS]

  person doing terrible things and I just [TS]

  get the feeling it's not gonna work out [TS]

  for him because like he's gonna learn in [TS]

  the end you can never overcome the fact [TS]

  that you are noble born and all these [TS]

  schemes and everything will just make [TS]

  you a terrible person and eventually you [TS]

  will fail to gain power [TS]

  so that's my impression of him and he's [TS]

  not particularly simple thing like when [TS]

  they had him being in love with [TS]

  what's-his-name the meds wife even [TS]

  Catlett yeah i think they want us to [TS]

  believe that was a real thing or [TS]

  something but he's so slimy that you're [TS]

  like no I don't believe I know I think [TS]

  that's his childhood obsession right is [TS]

  never got her in that lost obsession now [TS]

  we're just now he's playing a game [TS]

  because he's mad that he didn't get her [TS]

  yeah but but even money stay with it was [TS]

  like more of a selfish thing like it [TS]

  wasn't like I can be loved like yellow [TS]

  one child childhood obsession like [TS]

  that's the thing i wanted when i was [TS]

  doing better [TS]

  yeah and now i want to get it but I [TS]

  really can't happen it's dark and he [TS]

  just needs that learning everything [TS]

  don't worry you won't do anything [TS]

  anymore no nothing will rob or catlin or [TS]

  who else or anybody else who'd all those [TS]

  people who died [TS]

  yeah I was always told i was [TS]

  structurally benign disease while [TS]

  watching you know thinking of it from a [TS]

  perspective of people who haven't read [TS]

  the books so you know there's that in in [TS]

  season one it was always for me the [TS]

  linework ned stark says I'll tell you [TS]

  about your mother next time i see you [TS]

  man [TS]

  and so that for me there was this the [TS]

  season it was the scene where the the [TS]

  hound has area and is riding up the [TS]

  river on the third out the times always [TS]

  people see them in today that are and [TS]

  it's like okay but you get like [TS]

  everything but I'm getting excited about [TS]

  like oh they're finally gonna get [TS]

  reunited her brother brother brother [TS]

  that everything's gonna be okay [TS]

  instead it's good she didn't get there [TS]

  in time or she wouldn't I exactly it was [TS]

  another another lucky break for aria [TS]

  yeah our hero our hero arts [TS]

  seven-year-old psychopath I mean that [TS]

  last message in this episode we're like [TS]

  15 minutes we're buying where you just [TS]

  you have her stabbed the guy death and [TS]

  then you just look at our holding the [TS]

  power Morgan like I was a bad light [TS]

  think her and I said I grow up I'm going [TS]

  to be an assassin to the scene me right [TS]

  before that where she goes up to the guy [TS]

  and says like yeah sure like the look on [TS]

  her face my god we get you're sitting [TS]

  there especially because you know who [TS]

  she is you know in terms of like what [TS]

  kind of what she's been through and what [TS]

  she wants to do and what she's been [TS]

  exposed to [TS]

  you're like oh that guy's about my [TS]

  murder cheese filled with a righteous [TS]

  anger because she killed those people [TS]

  were bad like they were making you know [TS]

  I mean especially when acted like they [TS]

  were you know they had killed her family [TS]

  and they're joking about it now and [TS]

  she's all her anger is righteous anger [TS]

  she doesn't have like she doesn't that's [TS]

  why we're still at this point routing [TS]

  very is crazy she maybe then you said oh [TS]

  she's gonna become an assassin that's [TS]

  that's basically a noble profession is [TS]

  working again gonna with the code and [TS]

  act like you like Jake when right he was [TS]

  he was kind of noble yeah I'll kill some [TS]

  people for you and then all right enjoy [TS]

  like you know that is the code that [TS]

  makes these financial sense of the [TS]

  regular you you pay me or exchange some [TS]

  things and i will give you my service my [TS]

  services I kill people you know it's not [TS]

  me as they say in grosse pointe blank [TS]

  you know [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah you get a double play [TS]

  with that the I'm pen year the the the [TS]

  other funny things she's with this guy [TS]

  who she says is a monster and a killer [TS]

  but we're reminded of what's happening [TS]

  with her when he gets her after she they [TS]

  kill all those people and all he has to [TS]

  say that where is warn me the next time [TS]

  you will get right right now I mean that [TS]

  technology's give me a heads-up how does [TS]

  always a very interesting character in [TS]

  the book because he's not a nice guy and [TS]

  money not he's he's lived the life of [TS]

  someone who kills people and that's his [TS]

  job and you know it protects people and [TS]

  kills people but he doesn't have any [TS]

  allegiance to one particular thing he [TS]

  does his job but he has to do it but [TS]

  they given that vulnerability being [TS]

  scared of fires you're like all four [TS]

  hand as he slaughters more people yeah [TS]

  but there when they leave but he's not [TS]

  all bad you know right i mean he said [TS]

  you had simply because he could've just [TS]

  you know if he was it was just a [TS]

  vengeful evil person he could just [TS]

  killed area like ye are left her a lot [TS]

  of demand for why even entertain like [TS]

  when she's at the rock over his head [TS]

  doing the thing is a hoot doing stuff [TS]

  that that is the he's doing that because [TS]

  you can tell that's his version of [TS]

  affection for her also telling to their [TS]

  telling her i'll give you one shot in my [TS]

  head [TS]

  also he thinks he thinks that she's got [TS]

  value [TS]

  and he's did that as part of its part of [TS]

  it is that i keep her alive and maybe i [TS]

  can find some way to make this right but [TS]

  you could have his hog tighter and like [TS]

  not dealt with her crap but he was [TS]

  willing to put up with her silliness [TS]

  because he knew basically wasn't a [TS]

  threat and he has a simple yes and I [TS]

  have to say you think they did a really [TS]

  nice job with him in the scene where he [TS]

  fights beric Dondarrion before you know [TS]

  area explains where his fear of fire [TS]

  comes from his job acting in that scene [TS]

  was like are gonna take this guy and [TS]

  this light sword on fire you see you go [TS]

  like eyes wide like crap you know that [TS]

  he does a nice job with that I thought [TS]

  you and me and he's on his way and I but [TS]

  it's not he's not cool he doesn't know [TS]

  why did have to be snakes right you guys [TS]

  man that's because you wouldn't say if [TS]

  you were actually afraid of snakes you [TS]

  wouldn't say why that's me she would not [TS]

  be wouldn't go anywhere in there [TS]

  yes that's right well that the end there [TS]

  when the the slaughter is starting to [TS]

  happen at twins he's gonna come over [TS]

  like now this people which is a fire [TS]

  we're gonna go go [TS]

  there's fire any savvy like a lot of [TS]

  people are sadly picks up the banner so [TS]

  you can go out and not be you know the [TS]

  banner of the opposing sides yeah nice [TS]

  smart anything else we should talk about [TS]

  about game of thrones before we move on [TS]

  I really love the scenes that they [TS]

  inserted with Davos and Gendry so we [TS]

  don't in the books there's a different [TS]

  character in the books this year i give [TS]

  me anything there's another Roberts [TS]

  bastard but they decided obviously we [TS]

  already have a band behind them we had [TS]

  yesterday was against a likeable [TS]

  character together you have a lot to do [TS]

  women in the books he is very much more [TS]

  of a like everyone after him because [TS]

  he's the pastor but we don't get much [TS]

  out of him [TS]

  I'm Andy making he ends up staying [TS]

  fields in the books means of staying [TS]

  with the Brotherhood banners and this [TS]

  one he rides on get sold by the [TS]

  Brotherhood without banners will not in [TS]

  the books he doesn't get so no go to buy [TS]

  them right but it shows how other way [TS]

  around and sell them to that else and so [TS]

  I really enjoyed human and davos I felt [TS]

  like there was a good rapport there i [TS]

  love davos he's one of my favorite care [TS]

  greater union a connector [TS]

  yes greater is to read shireen you know [TS]

  what I found their use of shireen in [TS]

  this season 2 shireen the daughter [TS]

  daughter yeah he's got the grayscale oh [TS]

  yeah what that is called adults sheet a [TS]

  quality Z's in the book she's introduced [TS]

  a full she would have technically been [TS]

  introduced last season because she [TS]

  appears very briefly in the set [TS]

  can rock but that when actors and we [TS]

  need yeah they held her off and they [TS]

  also combined her with a gesture [TS]

  character who I don't know if you'll [TS]

  meet in the in the TV show but who also [TS]

  appears in books in book 2 and shereen i [TS]

  don't know if you caught was singing one [TS]

  of patch paces songs because it is a [TS]

  nice construction to make it simpler and [TS]

  yet clear for the for the show [TS]

  yeah exactly yeah I think that's there's [TS]

  overall sort of want to take away from [TS]

  this season is that they've done is a [TS]

  diverse learns to read and Reading Is [TS]

  Fundamental I was rooting for getting [TS]

  lower Jason it's in a book very [TS]

  liberating for Gendry like a send-off on [TS]

  the boat and you know okay well the [TS]

  flatboat you can't swim and I was [TS]

  drinking and he goes off on the boat and [TS]

  he falls on ground i was actually and [TS]

  that's the end of game three was I was [TS]

  waiting for the onion I to be like what [TS]

  you can't swim alright i guess i have to [TS]

  come with you in this boat and just [TS]

  don't like that kind of nonchalant thing [TS]

  that you doing a TV show will I know [TS]

  he's not going to ground but i would i [TS]

  would like to do out on the boat and say [TS]

  whatever happened to Gendry I guess he [TS]

  dragged me around and then he and then [TS]

  he did and that would be the one he [TS]

  wouldn't company preseason it's just it [TS]

  was grounded that never realistically [TS]

  i'll cover the drought actually I where [TS]

  they walked just seen a later season [TS]

  where people are walking along the beach [TS]

  you want to skeleton rare with his [TS]

  clothes on it maybe seriously though you [TS]

  know if you've never been in a boat and [TS]

  can't swim and you sounded row for a day [TS]

  you'll be fine he would not be desperate [TS]

  desperate measures right leg is broke [TS]

  free day in 5050 [TS]

  he's strong he's not wait how do we know [TS]

  how to row we don't know which way to [TS]

  sit in the book and figure that out you [TS]

  can figure it out my kids figured that [TS]

  out we put them in a kayak the comments [TS]

  below for a day of the hitting coach for [TS]

  Mitzi night overall I think these these [TS]

  two seasons like i said earlier they [TS]

  suffer from one we can get for the [TS]

  fireworks factory disease like this [TS]

  seriously those days you know that this [TS]

  tragedy if you scratching things to get [TS]

  from the simpsons where they can scratch [TS]

  you're going to see a science is like [TS]

  five miles to the fireworks factory and [TS]

  the drive some more and it's like three [TS]

  miles of the back fireworks factory like [TS]

  gucci comes on the screen [TS]

  oh yeah and again the kids watching like [TS]

  what are they gonna get to the fireworks [TS]

  factory was teased yes and it was doing [TS]

  and they never get and fireworks factory [TS]

  sounds like a fun place for you to [TS]

  scratch it to be and then put your shows [TS]

  up and never get better [TS]

  no that was a future episode but anyway [TS]

  this freaking White Walkers there does [TS]

  there's water there's the slowest tired [TS]

  they're not right already [TS]

  well the time they're not white joggers [TS]

  ok so the idea it's a long way from the [TS]

  North day seems like everyone else has [TS]

  walked to and from the like nine times I [TS]

  think the idea the idea is that they're [TS]

  gathering their strength also because [TS]

  it's not winter yet and it's the winter [TS]

  is coming [TS]

  it's very very close now they don't like [TS]

  frosty hasn't come yet they write the [TS]

  right snowboards the things and they [TS]

  can't do that in two weeks late on my [TS]

  impression was like they were [TS]

  practically at the ball at the end of [TS]

  last season and this season underway for [TS]

  the many ways yeah there's the mountains [TS]

  and the gathering of forces I mean I [TS]

  definitely let you know by the way of [TS]

  major security flaw in the wall is that [TS]

  salmon is like oh yeah there's this [TS]

  tunnel that just gonna walk around it i [TS]

  did this in the first spoke around you [TS]

  can't walk around like going to your [TS]

  liking to the ocean i know it's like [TS]

  knee-deep water when you get to the [TS]

  ocean just wait out there and daughter [TS]

  of all you don't need to do it you can [TS]

  just go through this little tunnel and [TS]

  come up in a in a while because well [TS]

  said he only learned it from my you know [TS]

  thousand-year-old book so you are [TS]

  unlikely that the Whitewater just [TS]

  walking whatever the next season here [TS]

  next season the White Walkers want to [TS]

  read in the touching scene and then read [TS]

  them about 4,000 years ago as a weight [TS]

  has been a total here the whole time [TS]

  let's go [TS]

  well status is going to the wall in the [TS]

  next season so maybe shireen will come [TS]

  into friend with barberton approves of [TS]

  this plotline I think the reading [TS]

  reading is fundamental when the war fire [TS]

  and ice [TS]

  that's right that reading is coming [TS]

  reading is coming winter is coming but [TS]

  well are coming [TS]

  yeah I'll didn't I don't want to spoil [TS]

  it for me but i really hope there's some [TS]

  sort of conflict Walker's win in the end [TS]

  and everybody down that you see the esto [TS]

  cables ugh there's a little video of [TS]

  john george RR martin on conan o'brien [TS]

  where they did like how it takes for [TS]

  like spoilers and he's talking the only [TS]

  one I really loved this winter comes [TS]

  it's not so bad it's kind of cozy make a [TS]

  fire hangout marshmallows in skiing [TS]

  classy its nice ski skiing and white [TS]

  mountains to the north avoid the trolls [TS]

  appointment with the weights years that [TS]

  it melted the intro sequence instead of [TS]

  selling the elevator going up the wall [TS]

  be like a ski lift 200 right [TS]

  my kids are obsessed with zip lines so [TS]

  they would see that may be like ooh we [TS]

  put a zip line off that time we ya do [TS]

  with the way he killed no overall thumbs [TS]

  up [TS]

  things going well i like it i continue [TS]

  like this [TS]

  one of the leaders i watch on the night [TS]

  that airs if I can't no I have to [TS]

  because otherwise i'll be spoiled but [TS]

  that's true that madman I tried it but [TS]

  I'm motivated i was not is that for me [TS]

  because having read the books there's [TS]

  not as much to get spoiled but I'm in a [TS]

  real love finding good shows which I [TS]

  want to talk about two and this one is [TS]

  still you know there's a lot of shows i [TS]

  watch regularly kind of falling off the [TS]

  air and and the game of thrones is a is [TS]

  a goat too i mean i take Doctor Who in [TS]

  Game of Thrones the only ones that i [TS]

  make sure kinda like those with my [TS]

  appointment shows right now game of [TS]

  thrones way but no yes well yes no I i [TS]

  think this season I i think this season [TS]

  game of thrones really like i said [TS]

  earlier came into it because not only is [TS]

  it is it good but they've they've [TS]

  they've taken control of their story [TS]

  made changes to the books created these [TS]

  individual episodes where when you look [TS]

  back it's like wow this there was a [TS]

  theme for tonight's show while they [TS]

  advance the plot show is brought to you [TS]

  by three-day Parenthood right I show [TS]

  it's no no I and i like that today I [TS]

  feel like that they're they're not just [TS]

  wrestling with how to get through all of [TS]

  this plot anymore and they're actually [TS]

  like they've got control the producers [TS]

  have of what they're trying to do [TS]

  episode by episode 2 so for me it went [TS]

  to a whole other level where I thought I [TS]

  think this is one of the best shows on [TS]

  TV now not knowing what the book is like [TS]

  all the seasons look pretty evening to [TS]

  me because i don't know like where they [TS]

  are struggling with I mean I feel like [TS]

  they're starting the same amount with [TS]

  iic the like I think I said the first [TS]

  season looks like highlights of a longer [TS]

  work and continue to look like I have a [TS]

  longer work but all I can't pick a [TS]

  favorite season i think if i had to pick [TS]

  one maybe I pixies and one just business [TS]

  so type you know like pure beginning [TS]

  middle end like you had all that [TS]

  together all the seasons have that kind [TS]

  of pacing where they're like it's like a [TS]

  wire setting things up and then people [TS]

  are moving their individual bloodline so [TS]

  nice and terrible man and then [TS]

  culmination and then du monde yes you [TS]

  know and i think that's a great [TS]

  structure in my life when I look back at [TS]

  the night you think the classical plots [TS]

  are ya comes up now well you know a [TS]

  structure for a season because it start [TS]

  slowly from the traditional perspective [TS]

  a lot of things like we gotta go bang [TS]

  bang we gotta have a big set piece in [TS]

  the first one together and then we gotta [TS]

  you know [TS]

  and a big set piece and this this has [TS]

  the patience to graduate to play it out [TS]

  over all the episodes and all the [TS]

  seasons really do look pretty even to me [TS]

  every one of them has something to [TS]

  recommended there's always one plot line [TS]

  that's kind of silly that goes on too [TS]

  long like the talk to one in this down [TS]

  and the stupid attention to the ones [TS]

  bother me detention area used to bother [TS]

  me but now she's making progress and the [TS]

  the walkers are there now bother because [TS]

  they're making progress [TS]

  mmm yeah I guess what puts puts it over [TS]

  the top for me it's just that I felt [TS]

  like individual episodes had meaning [TS]

  unto themselves as a as opposed to just [TS]

  being we don't think there are reasons [TS]

  have that too and maybe I'm reading and [TS]

  I don't know what I I kind of pic i pick [TS]

  a theme [TS]

  I felt like a little more like I was [TS]

  just watching the next hour of the long [TS]

  installment and this year I felt a [TS]

  little more like that they had they had [TS]

  coalesced little but I should all back [TS]

  the characters are more developed I [TS]

  should go back and watch this maybe [TS]

  they've been doing it all day man could [TS]

  maybe they haven't been I'm just reading [TS]

  into it like there's always there's [TS]

  always enough like they do enough scenes [TS]

  richest people talking to each other [TS]

  like especially in the earlier episodes [TS]

  where you can latch onto something is [TS]

  the theme in earlier seasons its people [TS]

  having sex with each other while talking [TS]

  got whatever you gotta do it mean it's [TS]

  kind of like you know the HBO things you [TS]

  should be they would front load the new [TS]

  day and the first three episodes of the [TS]

  series just to make sure people watch it [TS]

  and now they were just this is [TS]

  front-loading the new in the first two [TS]

  seasons and yeah you're not just the [TS]

  first two episodes now you're hooked [TS]

  yeah I'm and now finally the women can [TS]

  keep their clothes on when ya can't seem [TS]

  to make it easy to edit for foreign [TS]

  markets now no Jason I think actually [TS]

  what might capture us more about the [TS]

  later seasons is that they have more [TS]

  that aren't from the books they have [TS]

  more adaptations they have more [TS]

  interesting complications as book [TS]

  readers yeah well exactly and the [TS]

  variation [TS]

  oh yeah i mean the first couple seasons [TS]

  are very direct and very much like yes I [TS]

  am watching what i read a couple years [TS]

  ago or ten years ago and I can pretty [TS]

  much follow it word-for-word it's like [TS]

  watching cliff notes in some ways and I [TS]

  felt like the show really started to [TS]

  come into its own as soon as it steps [TS]

  out of the shadow of the book and said [TS]

  we're going to start experimenting now [TS]

  you don't know exactly what's going [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  yeah you're more or less part where we [TS]

  know enough about the outline they were [TS]

  going from that we can be impressed by [TS]

  their their art and changing it whereas [TS]

  you joining the yard without without [TS]

  taking it apart entirely different [TS]

  before we run completely over time i [TS]

  wanted to talk a little bit about [TS]

  I alluded to earlier i'm feeling kind of [TS]

  disappointed by this TV season but i [TS]

  want to see if there were any highlights [TS]

  things that you guys wanted to mention [TS]

  from the TV season as a whole rather [TS]

  than I just [TS]

  than I just [TS]

  I can't get the energy to do a whole [TS]

  season wrap up because I was just down [TS]

  and that's a terrible episode to say hey [TS]

  everybody everything sucks goodbye [TS]

  so any and John you have anything that [TS]

  you wanted to highlight the things you [TS]

  like this TV series i have I the fact [TS]

  that i can't think back and remember [TS]

  anything that really thats all UV is [TS]

  probably probably means that i know for [TS]

  intended [TS]

  yeah I barely remember what happened I [TS]

  was really just disappointed i've always [TS]

  been kind of hot and cold on that show [TS]

  and then as it is it died with a whimper [TS]

  and I i did I could barely bring myself [TS]

  to watch the last few episodes and I [TS]

  need to wear that I already complained [TS]

  about this exact same i just stopped [TS]

  caring about them because too many weird [TS]

  things that what you complained about [TS]

  when we talk about French the last time [TS]

  it just kept happening which is I I [TS]

  always thought that episode that show [TS]

  was more strength of the emotions of the [TS]

  characters and that it was I thought it [TS]

  was beautiful that a lot of it was about [TS]

  parents and children and actually the [TS]

  last season they brought that backward [TS]

  now well now Peter and Olivia where the [TS]

  parents and they had a child and they [TS]

  were trying to play that again but they [TS]

  changed the characters and the timelines [TS]

  and then with london's and they didn't [TS]

  didn't really raise the kid they saw her [TS]

  when she was little and then skipped and [TS]

  then she's funny but they still love her [TS]

  so much and the plot imaginations yet [TS]

  kinda took took me out of the the [TS]

  character and emotional connections that [TS]

  I had and I'm gonna get really care what [TS]

  happened to the world or what happened [TS]

  to New York what happened observers and [TS]

  about two episodes from the end i called [TS]

  the ending I turned to my wife and I [TS]

  said well they're gonna reboot it to [TS]

  that seen we've seen eight times farther [TS]

  out in the park and she said how does [TS]

  that make it the very smart my wife is a [TS]

  very smart person she said wait a second [TS]

  but if they if they do it so that they [TS]

  negate everything that would mean so [TS]

  that the observers didn't exist that [TS]

  means the observers would never have [TS]

  have a vacay Peter here would have died [TS]

  in the lake that they don't really go [TS]

  and therefore all the world would have [TS]

  been different anywhere no idea that [TS]

  would be kind of a bummer so we're not [TS]

  going to do that we're just gonna have [TS]

  to go back to that seen in the park and [TS]

  remember everyone and everything smiley [TS]

  and happy and oversaturated slightly [TS]

  blurry and I guess I madman [TS]

  yes it is still going on I like madmen [TS]

  but we've seen the first season of mad [TS]

  man i'd like to try i really enjoyed [TS]

  this season so this season i think is [TS]

  one of my favorites it's not my favorite [TS]

  madness not quite as xt in some ways [TS]

  which i think is what i like about it [TS]

  that this would kill me in the first [TS]

  season I was like well I get it is [TS]

  shading you keep watching it because it [TS]

  is not good it has its really [TS]

  well-crafted as a show but it's very old [TS]

  the crisis of doggie raper it's very [TS]

  difficult because the characters don't [TS]

  the sympathetic elements of them take a [TS]

  long time to development does they're [TS]

  interesting but they are hard to yeah [TS]

  well this is the best thing about the [TS]

  show is I it has the guts you if you [TS]

  only one season you don't see this but [TS]

  it has the guts to not say you like [TS]

  season one more of the same 30 seasons [TS]

  it does not do that so keep watching you [TS]

  are rewarded with the fact that they're [TS]

  just not always just kind of encouraged [TS]

  by this is this one it's gonna be it's [TS]

  not and it and it's very it's some of [TS]

  the rare well really well done period [TS]

  stuff you know 20 sure to read stuff [TS]

  interment doesn't dwell on it doesn't [TS]

  want but it's just it has any time [TS]

  you're the 20th century it isn't it has [TS]

  an impact so when you when actual events [TS]

  you know what happened that has an [TS]

  impact so we're actually season was the [TS]

  season was good is good yeah I'll throat [TS]

  um that was looking at using all this [TS]

  over to more i was looking back to my [TS]

  list and agreeing that most of the stuff [TS]

  that I saw this year was not great or is [TS]

  like you know procedural stuff that i [TS]

  watch that sort of just guilty pleasure [TS]

  yeah the one show i will throw in there [TS]

  that I i really do like is just [TS]

  international it's just policy reception [TS]

  justified my wife watch justin is very [TS]

  and she's proving she's intelligent has [TS]

  good taste she watches that show but I [TS]

  don't watch it's a fantastic show [TS]

  it's all fun he loves it yeah with the [TS]

  old fan it's it's really just a [TS]

  well-done crime show that's not a [TS]

  procedural that's really about this one [TS]

  guy who basically comes back to his [TS]

  hometown in rural Kentucky I saw the [TS]

  first three four episodes i thought it [TS]

  was great i just and a fantastic [TS]

  fantastic jobs by walton goggins who if [TS]

  you've ever watched the shield or some [TS]

  of those other shows just a great [TS]

  character actor who is really does a [TS]

  fantastic job of playing sort of a gray [TS]

  area character on the show but yeah that [TS]

  is one of my favorite that's one of the [TS]

  other few shows that i look forward to [TS]

  really look forward to so i highly [TS]

  recommend it [TS]

  son I think it's on prime instant video [TS]

  offering i should list orphan black is [TS]

  the show that i'm not i'm not watching [TS]

  at all but i want so here is something [TS]

  special assistant you mentioned that was [TS]

  what I was reserving because i like to [TS]

  go at the end [TS]

  orphan black 10 episodes BBC america [TS]

  that's new show i saw this year by far [TS]

  already one of my favorite show [TS]

  it's got some issues but the fact is [TS]

  first off it is got the best maybe the [TS]

  best acting performance I've seen on TV [TS]

  in I maybe ever [TS]

  Mills animal Tatiana maslany i think is [TS]

  how you pronounce her name she plays [TS]

  seven different characters i think over [TS]

  the course of the season because she's a [TS]

  clone and they are colors they are well [TS]

  ok it's a clone drama just there are [TS]

  clones i will say there are clones she [TS]

  plays the clones place alone now she [TS]

  plays the clones playing pretending to [TS]

  be other clones and they all have [TS]

  different accents she has to be like [TS]

  she's British but she's faking being [TS]

  American and then she has to play the [TS]

  real American it's a good version of [TS]

  dollhouse it is it is but where there's [TS]

  one character and instead of all those [TS]

  different it's great and and what's [TS]

  great about it too is it's not [TS]

  first off it tricks you into thinking [TS]

  that maybe settling down into an [TS]

  episodic group but it never does [TS]

  because one of the characters is a cop [TS]

  and you think of are they going to solve [TS]

  crimes they're not going to solve crimes [TS]

  it's not about that so that so it keeps [TS]

  on the story keeps progressing and [TS]

  doesn't play stall ball in the middle [TS]

  which I really appreciated and also it's [TS]

  funny it's got some social satire [TS]

  elements because like one of the one of [TS]

  the clones is in the suburbs and it [TS]

  makes lots of commentary on sort of [TS]

  suburban parent life contrasting it with [TS]

  the city clone it's the cities of the [TS]

  country clothes is dead classic story [TS]

  great highlight can't recommend it [TS]

  highly enough it's the only new show i [TS]

  watch this year that I got past episode [TS]

  2 and I we devoured all 10 of them and I [TS]

  was surprised that I was liking it so [TS]

  much but I i just got have to rave about [TS]

  it really great gets better as it goes [TS]

  by the time you get to the end you like [TS]

  I cannot believe what crazy stuff is [TS]

  happening and and i also remember back [TS]

  when they used to do TV shows where you [TS]

  have a sci-fi show where there was like [TS]

  the duplicate like data and lore or [TS]

  whatever and you could see the line [TS]

  where they had the yeah they had to [TS]

  split screen you forget watching the [TS]

  show that it's one actress because there [TS]

  are the the way they were however they [TS]

  don't attack on general camera they have [TS]

  these motion control cameras they did [TS]

  there's a shot where three clones in one [TS]

  scene and it and the camera pulls back [TS]

  pans up there's a rack focus from one [TS]

  character to the other all moving it [TS]

  looks like it's it doesn't look [TS]

  steadicam it looks like it's shaking a [TS]

  little bit and it is perfect and you [TS]

  would never even think that there's only [TS]

  one actors playing the part so orphan [TS]

  black major thumbs-up great really have [TS]

  really great show i want this route I [TS]

  there are two returning shows that one [TS]

  which just started airing and one which [TS]

  areas in the fall which I never shows i [TS]

  quite like which are the killing which [TS]

  came back despite having been canceled [TS]

  people really mad can i really i really [TS]

  like I i think that was I understand the [TS]

  frustration for that I still think that [TS]

  is one of many promises state they [TS]

  shouldn't have made I think I they said [TS]

  we'll solve it at the end of the first [TS]

  season right inside and and but that [TS]

  said that said it is a great show it is [TS]

  atmospheric it is well acted it's got [TS]

  fantastic cinematography some of my [TS]

  favorites in at cinematography on TV the [TS]

  the setting in seattle is just it's [TS]

  really gorgeous and i are is they're [TS]

  killing there's no Kelly there so it's [TS]

  actually just a comment whether people [TS]

  are mad I i really like that also Luther [TS]

  starring injuries and almost back for a [TS]

  third season this fall which I have [TS]

  really liked because he's just he's one [TS]

  of those guys you watching is just [TS]

  magnetic in his performances [TS]

  yeah he's not and i will show the the [TS]

  other one show which I i forgot because [TS]

  it was not my list i watch the Americans [TS]

  yeah I can imagine that when you said [TS]

  Americans i watch that as well I do not [TS]

  like it [TS]

  I mean it's not it doesn't doesn't [TS]

  bother me it doesn't achieve like the [TS]

  highs it just kind of names on the [TS]

  middle and sometimes silly things happen [TS]

  but I pilot but i didn't watch the [TS]

  second i'm a sucker for spy stuff [TS]

  especially cold war these a tease you [TS]

  know I feel like they don't know you [TS]

  don't lean on the ad stuff enough I feel [TS]

  like which I thought they would be go [TS]

  over the top and early you know what [TS]

  seems like a really modern times oh [TS]

  there's an old phone but you know what [TS]

  this is like they need to decorate [TS]

  there's an excellent dynamics and [TS]

  they're barely had keri russell matthew [TS]

  rhys both have I think some very [TS]

  interesting dynamics going on there and [TS]

  it's a great supporting cast with [TS]

  what's-his-name the camera gives the [TS]

  best friend in the truman show that his [TS]

  name all right and the the older woman [TS]

  who's not going their handler who is [TS]

  also plays a was on justified in earlier [TS]

  season place an excellent villain there [TS]

  so yeah that's your villain not in this [TS]

  one the handler by submission in the [TS]

  wrong I said no and i justified she [TS]

  plays a villain or [TS]

  in this one she plays again more of a [TS]

  kind of question will carry the whole [TS]

  thing was really only wanted the problem [TS]

  this one is that it just barely hold on [TS]

  to its promise by a thread because it [TS]

  started for you like you should lose [TS]

  track wait what are these people doing [TS]

  what they're actually motivated lately [TS]

  fighting or like alias in the sense that [TS]

  you're like well it's the double-cross [TS]

  well it's not so much that it is i think [TS]

  it's hard to sympathize with characters [TS]

  whose views don't whine up so clearly [TS]

  with our own terms of like they're KGB [TS]

  agents right in Deep Cover Russian [TS]

  territory without the worst KGB has ever [TS]

  been the best in terms of confidence [TS]

  with the worst in terms of like a [TS]

  dedication to country and motivation is [TS]

  reception or like what they have to make [TS]

  you sympathize like I think we should [TS]

  affect that was an episode 1 right yeah [TS]

  you can't have the defective episode [TS]

  investment and I think they're designed [TS]

  the husband it's also like but he loves [TS]

  her but she doesn't love him because [TS]

  they were raining but he loves her now [TS]

  they get a lot of mileage I'm sure do I [TS]

  thought it was good i thought was good [TS]

  people like i watch the line watch more [TS]

  like that i keep watching it but I'm it [TS]

  I'm frustrated by its media i would hope [TS]

  their second season is a little tighter [TS]

  when do you have any any recommendations [TS]

  or I watched a lot of actually old shows [TS]

  this season new things oh yeah I never [TS]

  watch the wire so i was running at this [TS]

  year Jesus the wire is eligible [TS]

  everybody an hour [TS]

  ah but the one new show that I did watch [TS]

  and that i love and i praying is not [TS]

  getting cancelled because it's in weird [TS]

  limbo state right now is a bun heads [TS]

  which is on ABC family and has a [TS]

  horrible name but it is a wonderful show [TS]

  its by Amy sherman-palladino who did go [TS]

  monitor or girls and it has Sutton [TS]

  Foster and who is a Tony award-winning [TS]

  actress and brilliant and in short is [TS]

  basically a vegas dancer who once wanted [TS]

  to be on Broadway and it did not work [TS]

  out i suddenly gets engaged and married [TS]

  to this guy and moved to small-town USA [TS]

  in Northern California then guy [TS]

  mysteriously spoilers gets goes out of [TS]

  the picture and she's stuck in [TS]

  small-town nowhere with no job but has [TS]

  inherited a dance studio and it's just [TS]

  about her misadventures with the dance [TS]

  studio with the kids this makes a lot [TS]

  more sense than she said it's amy [TS]

  sherman-palladino yeah I understand it's [TS]

  very good wife watches the show that ABC [TS]

  family [TS]

  it's ABC and I feel like this whole [TS]

  other realm of television that people [TS]

  are watching i'm not going to say just [TS]

  women but this section of the population [TS]

  that is watching the shows on ABC Family [TS]

  devouring them and loving them and not [TS]

  talking about them like public like [TS]

  we're also probably we love Game of [TS]

  Thrones let's all talk about Game of [TS]

  Thrones there quietly watching bunny and [TS]

  Sam yeah and loving on how much but not [TS]

  being but not like raving about I think [TS]

  there's some sort of secret shame of [TS]

  lighting shows that are wholesome you [TS]

  know like that that it i don't watch the [TS]

  show either but I get the impression a [TS]

  lot of the shows my wife watching ABC [TS]

  family like old-fashioned kind of mostly [TS]

  wholesome no one is going to be [TS]

  gruesomely murdered or raped in the show [TS]

  it's it's it's not a soap opera either [TS]

  it's a bit more groups of course family [TS]

  yeah i mean i-i lights for years that [TS]

  Everwood which was a WB show which I [TS]

  thought was a really well-done family [TS]

  drama that didn't get into the overly [TS]

  sappy and actually portrayed a fairly [TS]

  realistic it wasn't like super soapy [TS]

  there was enough interpersonal drama [TS]

  that it was interesting to watch or [TS]

  something like Parenthood which is i [TS]

  also really like which is again a good [TS]

  season this turned into this video and [TS]

  the season doesn't have to end of the [TS]

  triple-murder right thing ya been out of [TS]

  control to extreme of throwing still get [TS]

  you can still get a lot of mileage out [TS]

  of that because family drama is [TS]

  something that we all really want to do [TS]

  yeah I very rarely have people killed in [TS]

  a wedding so there that's good i relate [TS]

  more to this [TS]

  yeah exactly whatever you say Walters [TS]

  now the come to my house it's actually [TS]

  two houses without wasting away saying [TS]

  are we going to your house you are but [TS]

  it doesn't have a river i'm wearing [TS]

  chain mail [TS]

  there's no wedding right wait till I [TS]

  introduce the musicians you want you [TS]

  wonder why I never drink [TS]

  yeah exactly you gotta stay on your [TS]

  right now i'll mention of the delay time [TS]

  watching right now on netflix that is [TS]

  actually pretty good [TS]

  I can't remember the last time to show [TS]

  on the SyFy channel but i thought was [TS]

  decent but continuum which is a Canadian [TS]

  until next time travel show starring [TS]

  rachel nichols actually not bad so far [TS]

  i'm only like three episodes in actually [TS]

  not bad about a cop from the future [TS]

  who's chasing terrorists in the future [TS]

  the terrorists build a time-travel bomb [TS]

  thing that misfires and sensible all the [TS]

  way back to the year 2012 done and uh [TS]

  and she is accidentally control and [TS]

  leave them cheaper to shoot that way and [TS]

  that and now she has to now she has to [TS]

  track them down and try to stop them [TS]

  from destroying the future but it's nice [TS]

  because it's morally ambiguous it's sort [TS]

  of a question about whether maybe the [TS]

  terrorists are in the right and that the [TS]

  future is actually more dystopian and [TS]

  yet she's this authority figure from the [TS]

  dystopian government was so it's time [TS]

  comes I like that yes i like that and [TS]

  and then also she's very relatable [TS]

  because she has a husband and a little [TS]

  boy and has been time displaced from is [TS]

  and and in some shows i think they would [TS]

  play that is being like well I've got to [TS]

  get back to them and in this show when [TS]

  she tries and fails to get back in time [TS]

  she breaks down and cries and is really [TS]

  upset as one would be if one felt like [TS]

  I've never gonna see my child again so [TS]

  some good things in there and I had sort [TS]

  of given up on ever seeing anything on [TS]

  the SyFy channel so I I continuum i'm [TS]

  i'm enjoying that course our bed was [TS]

  terminated on the last time I don't know [TS]

  Fox knows I blocks that was a network [TS]

  it's been a while we can still see it to [TS]

  keep seeing her and I shells game of [TS]

  thrones got a lot of a sandwich and a [TS]

  lot of the oil shows night I like to [TS]

  assume these days incidentally that all [TS]

  shows with the same actors or canon so I [TS]

  just assumed that Sarah Connor is Queen [TS]

  Cersei remember my kind of a problem [TS]

  with the time traveling back in time [TS]

  across space how the station agent got [TS]

  to Westar outside really don't know I [TS]

  don't know we're gonna be interested [TS]

  that's very confined me up how Walter [TS]

  from fringe got to board the Rings is [TS]

  beyond me that's baffling to me but oh [TS]

  well I understand how sean bean pie [TS]

  i I can explain it in very one easy word [TS]

  observers you say well as two words the [TS]

  doctor he's just not move people around [TS]

  here you know right fair enough you [TS]

  fairies people back and forth all these [TS]

  different addresses parents alright well [TS]

  this has been good and now this room [TS]

  that we're in is has proven its met its [TS]

  metal and is really hot and oppressive [TS]

  now because we've been where humans and [TS]

  we are heating the room ourselves with [TS]

  our bodies so I'm going to wrap up this [TS]

  edition of the uncomfortable and i would [TS]

  like to thank my guess John siracusa [TS]

  thank you for being here [TS]

  winter just keeps coming and coming it [TS]

  does it doesn't stop [TS]

  someday we'll be here someday we'll be [TS]

  here and the White Walkers they're slow [TS]

  they got cannes walk they actually are [TS]

  holding Walker maybe they lost maybe [TS]

  it's like you know 40 years in the Sinai [TS]

  Peninsula it's like a big place just [TS]

  start going in circles going so don't [TS]

  know what they're doing they can't get [TS]

  through them more and thank you thanks [TS]

  for your time [TS]

  good to be here i was gonna say John [TS]

  that there in fact those shots are out [TS]

  of time so we're seeing shots from like [TS]

  40 years later they'll make it [TS]

  eventually but it's just it's not only [TS]

  across to the time continuum [TS]

  yeah and serenity called well thank you [TS]

  thank you for having me [TS]

  so until next time on the incomparable [TS]

  this is jason still signing off [TS]