0:00:00welcome to under the radar a show about
0:00:02independent iOS app development I'm mark
0:00:04Worman and I'm David Smith under the
0:00:06radar is never longer than 30 minutes so
0:00:08let's get started so this week we wanted
0:00:11to talk about a little bit of a current
0:00:13event and then brought it into a general
0:00:14topic the current event is that the the
0:00:17third-party YouTube client Pro tube was
0:00:20removed from the App Store Apple
0:00:23basically forced it out on Google's
0:00:24request because it was violated in the
0:00:27YouTube Terms of Service apparently and
0:00:28I want to talk about some of that and
0:00:31then brought that into the topic of
0:00:33generally developing apps that rely on
0:00:36other big services or that are not quite
0:00:40they're kind of on the edge of what's
0:00:42considered okay or what might be allowed
0:00:45or what might be legal the pro 2 bath
0:00:47specifically that you know it was a
0:00:50third-party YouTube app for iOS and it
0:00:53had great reviews I know I'm pretty sure
0:00:56Mac stories did a big review on at once
0:00:57that's one of that's where I heard of it
0:00:59first
0:01:00and it had many YouTube Pro user
0:01:03features many features that people want
0:01:05out of YouTube app that the main app
0:01:07either didn't or wouldn't offer you know
0:01:09different playback you know speeds and
0:01:12originally it offer downloading a for
0:01:14offline YouTube forced them to remove
0:01:16that a long time ago it offered things
0:01:18like stripping out the audio and just
0:01:20playing the audio and not having to rely
0:01:21on video so it could be played in the
0:01:22background things like that that the
0:01:25official app didn't offer for a long
0:01:27time or if ever things like picture and
0:01:29picture support on the iPad the official
0:01:31app made you buy YouTube read to do so
0:01:34you can kind of see why the why the
0:01:36official app and why YouTube might not
0:01:39have wanted this to happen but there
0:01:41there is quite a market to be had in
0:01:44doing things that people want that like
0:01:46the man won't let them do pro tube
0:01:49existed in this market this is something
0:01:51that I have a little bit of experience
0:01:53with ultimately though I try to stay
0:01:56away from this these days a lot of
0:01:58developers try to build their business
0:02:00on a third party API or app of some sort
0:02:04whether it's you know YouTube or a
0:02:06social network like Twitter clients or
0:02:09other you know other such things and I
0:02:12get a lot of requests for
0:02:13to open up an overcast API so people
0:02:15could make third-party clients this
0:02:18there was a brief time in the internet
0:02:20where where this seemed like an okay
0:02:22business model I'd say around like 2004
0:02:25or so where all the web services were
0:02:29opening up public API is that you could
0:02:31basically do whatever you wanted with
0:02:33and access wasn't controlled at all so
0:02:36anybody could write clients that said
0:02:38pretty much anything and this way this
0:02:40was considered like a big part of web
0:02:422.0 for a little while and then
0:02:45everything started getting locked down
0:02:47and and what was public became private
0:02:50what was free became controlled and and
0:02:53locked out and more recently you know in
0:02:57more recent apps and services that have
0:02:58taken off they either haven't had an API
0:03:01at all or like in the case of Instagram
0:03:04there's an eight there is an API but
0:03:06it's extraordinary limited or it might
0:03:08just be discontinued at any point or you
0:03:11can't do what you really want to do what
0:03:14most people would really want to do with
0:03:16with such an API there's there's a case
0:03:18to be made there is lots of demand for
0:03:22apps that live in this gray area that
0:03:25that do things that a service might not
0:03:28want or even even if it has a public API
0:03:31that for the moment you're doing things
0:03:34that the API allows there is a big
0:03:36market there because usually if you've
0:03:38heard of these services they're pretty
0:03:39big they have a lot of users and
0:03:40everybody wants you know something to
0:03:42enhance their favorite service or to
0:03:44make it easier to use or or whatever
0:03:46else so it seems like there's there's a
0:03:48business there or there's there's a
0:03:51market there rather but trying to build
0:03:54an entire business in a situation like
0:03:57that where there is this massive
0:03:59fundamental dependency that your app has
0:04:01on someone else's service that I think
0:04:06is increasingly unwise over time and
0:04:11that it's not to say that nobody should
0:04:13ever do it but it certainly should I
0:04:16think give you pause before you invest
0:04:19heavily into it so for instance in the
0:04:22case of Pro to Bleich I'm pretty sure
0:04:24that was somebody's full-time job
0:04:26or at least that was like that was their
0:04:28primary app that they made and and I
0:04:30believe that I believe the author even
0:04:32seven blog posted it did pretty well for
0:04:33a while and it had lots of users I
0:04:36personally at this point in my life I
0:04:39cannot imagine having my app be a
0:04:43hundred percent dependent on someone
0:04:46else's service now in the app store we
0:04:49are always 100% depend on Apple like
0:04:51that that is one dependency we always
0:04:53have is that well Apple at any time
0:04:55could kick us out of the App Store but
0:04:57in general if you align your incentives
0:05:01with Apple's you know or at least if you
0:05:03avoid stepping on their feet there's not
0:05:06much reason for Apple to remove you from
0:05:07the App Store like if you just have some
0:05:09regular app why would Apple remove it
0:05:12like that would that would be a huge PR
0:05:14risk to them maybe even a legal risk if
0:05:17you're big enough you know they the fact
0:05:19is Apple does not want to go around
0:05:20removing apps for no reason so like I'm
0:05:23not worried with overcast
0:05:25I'm not worried that Apple is gonna come
0:05:27along and all of a sudden say you know
0:05:28what podcast apps are now illegal again
0:05:30in the App Store and therefore you have
0:05:33to leave like that's I I don't stay
0:05:35awake at night thinking about that
0:05:36because I think it's incredibly unlikely
0:05:38because there's not much reason for
0:05:41Apple to ever do that that and that
0:05:43would be too much downside for them for
0:05:45it compared to whatever little upside
0:05:46there might be but if you're basing your
0:05:49entire app on something like Twitter or
0:05:51YouTube or somehow or Facebook you know
0:05:54some other big service like that you are
0:05:57building a business in someone else's
0:06:01property like they can do whatever they
0:06:04want and they don't have the kind of
0:06:07neutral incentive collection that Apple
0:06:11has in that kind of scenario like if
0:06:12you're building a Twitter app you're
0:06:15competing with Twitter and their own app
0:06:17using their own service and they're an
0:06:19API to do it so they are not going to be
0:06:22too keen on that and even if one of
0:06:25these services has an API where they
0:06:27they say that they're okay with
0:06:28something one day the next day that
0:06:30could change the next year that could
0:06:32change they might have to boost their
0:06:34metrics and your app might be taking
0:06:36away their metrics they might get new
0:06:38leadership that wants to take the
0:06:40company they
0:06:40and direction or their investors might
0:06:42force the company to take a different
0:06:43direction you know they might need to
0:06:45make changes to the product and the API
0:06:48that your app relies on is getting in
0:06:50the way of that progress there's all
0:06:52sorts of reasons why most companies and
0:06:56apps and services don't really need to
0:07:00let you build apps on them and it
0:07:02usually is actually against their best
0:07:03interest these days to do that and
0:07:06therefore it is unwise to make your
0:07:09business rely on that and so in the case
0:07:14of Pro Tube and YouTube it is really a
0:07:17shame that this great app that had a lot
0:07:21of big fans and had really been
0:07:24critically acclaimed it's a shame that
0:07:26app is now gone because YouTube decided
0:07:29they had enough and they they made Apple
0:07:31take it down and by the way I don't
0:07:34think Apple had any choice in the matter
0:07:35like that's a simple you know legal
0:07:38request thing and Apple does not need to
0:07:41put their neck out for that that's not
0:07:42worth it for them so this was really you
0:07:45know if you if you wanna be mad at
0:07:46somebody about this be mad at YouTube
0:07:47not Apple but it's it's a shame this app
0:07:52is gone but at the same time it was
0:07:55never on solid ground
0:07:56it was never guaranteed to be just
0:08:00forever the author of it had no right to
0:08:03like no guaranteed right that it would
0:08:05exist forever because it was always from
0:08:08the beginning built upon YouTube's
0:08:12property using YouTube's service doing
0:08:15things that YouTube really probably
0:08:17didn't want anybody to do and you know
0:08:19living on the edge and that really
0:08:23really sucks for the developer that it's
0:08:25now gone and that that business just
0:08:27disappeared but on someone well that's
0:08:29just the risk you take when you live on
0:08:31the edge like that like when you're in
0:08:32when you live in these gray areas it
0:08:34could disappear at any moment
0:08:36and so I'm not I'm not saying that you
0:08:38should necessarily never build an app
0:08:41like that but you should expect that you
0:08:45know you should go into it knowing that
0:08:46massive risk knowing that at any time
0:08:49the ground could shift below you and
0:08:53your
0:08:54fire app could just be gone like in this
0:08:57in the snap of fingers like it's just
0:08:59it's just gone and so how much do you
0:09:01want to invest in that how much do you
0:09:03want to rely on that how much do you
0:09:04want to plan for the future of his
0:09:05business when that could happen at any
0:09:07moment
0:09:07yeah it's so tough to cuz it's like I
0:09:10feel at a personal level I feel really
0:09:13bad for this developer I think it's
0:09:14Jonas Gessner I think it's his name like
0:09:16I have been in the position of making an
0:09:20app having it be successful and then
0:09:22having it sort of taken out at the store
0:09:24and thankfully for me that has that was
0:09:27many years ago when the App Store was a
0:09:29slightly different place and so like
0:09:31eventually I was able to get it back in
0:09:32and so on like that's a long story for
0:09:34another day but like I have been in this
0:09:35exact position and I know how this feels
0:09:37and it feels awful so at a personal
0:09:41level like it's very very sympathetic to
0:09:43like how frustrating this meant we must
0:09:46be but it is yeah I think the thing that
0:09:49most fundamentally when I think about
0:09:50these types of apps like there is any
0:09:53time there was a popular service like
0:09:55there is a built-in audience and so
0:09:58building applications to cater to that
0:10:02audience it makes sense because you're
0:10:04it's like if you wanted to create your
0:10:07own video you know video sharing viewing
0:10:11platform that hosts all the content and
0:10:14has Pail you know has video creators
0:10:16publish your videos on your platform etc
0:10:17like that is completely insurmountable
0:10:20so piggybacking on top of a big popular
0:10:23or probably the most popular video
0:10:25service in the world YouTube makes a lot
0:10:28of sense but inherent in that is like
0:10:31what you are in some ways doing is it's
0:10:33like you're it's you're making money off
0:10:37their service off their costs like
0:10:39YouTube is paying all the infrastructure
0:10:41costs YouTube is paying all of the
0:10:44bandwidth costs for hosting this video
0:10:46and then they're not activate on their
0:10:48own a they don't have a mechanism to
0:10:49make money from that you know YouTube
0:10:52makes most of its money from its
0:10:54advertising or its YouTube red
0:10:57subscription service both of which are
0:10:59things that as you know any third-party
0:11:02client isn't really showing to them I
0:11:04mean it's theoretically possible that
0:11:06YouTube could make
0:11:07mechanism by which you know developers
0:11:10have pay for that the use of the API but
0:11:12in general I don't think that's the case
0:11:13and so you're always in this kind of
0:11:15tricky position where you're making
0:11:18money off someone else's work in a
0:11:20certain way in a very helpful useful way
0:11:23but it's a really tenuous thing because
0:11:25that money that you are able to bring in
0:11:27that business that exists in many ways
0:11:31belongs to YouTube like and from a like
0:11:34they're made there they're creating the
0:11:36opportunity for doing that they're
0:11:38choosing not to necessarily explore and
0:11:41exploit that themselves you know they're
0:11:43not making the YouTube pro app that
0:11:47would do all of these things and they
0:11:49may have reasons for doing that and they
0:11:51could be you know who knows what that
0:11:54what that is like maybe they don't want
0:11:56a lot of apps to exist that have you
0:12:01know background audio playback because
0:12:02then they get in trouble with music
0:12:05labels who then people are you know just
0:12:07using YouTube as a as a CEO music
0:12:10streaming service and that creates legal
0:12:11issues or problems for them and so that
0:12:13they don't want to go down that road and
0:12:14sometimes they may want to let that
0:12:17exist like it's some it reminds me in
0:12:21many ways a lot of sort of the early
0:12:23days of Twitter where it existed part of
0:12:27what made it catch and fueled its
0:12:31initial growth I think was their
0:12:33openness of their third part of
0:12:35third-party clients because it allow it
0:12:36GAE essentially gave them this massive
0:12:39free developer effort that they didn't
0:12:42have to directly pay for they just paid
0:12:43for the infrastructure but there was a
0:12:45lot of this creativity and innovation
0:12:47that happened around their platform that
0:12:49they didn't have to manage and direct
0:12:51you know they could just sort of let you
0:12:53know let a thousand flowers bloom and
0:12:55then ultimately they just they picked
0:12:57the most successful flower there and
0:12:58they went after they purchased Tweety
0:13:01and you know made that the official
0:13:03client and then now now that that's sort
0:13:06of that that phase has happened it's you
0:13:09know increasingly they are shutting that
0:13:12down and I mean it's there's a few
0:13:14players who make third-party Twitter
0:13:16apps now but largely it's kind of this
0:13:18grandfathered in now
0:13:21really supported or encouraged kind of
0:13:23thing and in some ways that's great if
0:13:25you happened to like that's a very as
0:13:28the best possible scenario probably that
0:13:30if you make this kind of dependent
0:13:33service where ultimately yours kind of
0:13:35grandfathered in and you can just kind
0:13:37of exist and you have this mode of
0:13:38protection around you because no one
0:13:40else can make these apps anymore and so
0:13:43you're the only one so like that's
0:13:44awesome but probably much more likely is
0:13:47what's happening here where they just
0:13:50say you know this is not something we
0:13:52want to do and because you're sort of
0:13:54operating at our at our pleasure like at
0:13:58any point we can just turn this off
0:14:00they'll just turn it off and while at
0:14:04some point maybe you can find like crazy
0:14:06technical solutions to work around that
0:14:07and things where you're like you're not
0:14:10it's not an official API it's an
0:14:12unofficial API or you're just like
0:14:13you're posing as the official client
0:14:15like there's all kinds of crazy
0:14:16technical things but ultimately
0:14:18especially because we're exist in the
0:14:20app store environment where YouTube can
0:14:22just go to Apple and say this developer
0:14:25is essentially is violating our Terms of
0:14:28Service is doing illicit things we need
0:14:30you to take them down you'll get taken
0:14:32down like it's not a world where that
0:14:35might exist and so it's yeah it's it's
0:14:38unfortunate that this happens like I
0:14:40feel really bad for the people involved
0:14:43in the actual situation both the
0:14:45developers as well as the users but yeah
0:14:47it's it's always so tenuous and it's and
0:14:49it's something that I think we'll get
0:14:52into this a bit more later on too but
0:14:53it's these types of opportunities when
0:14:55they appear they look so enticing
0:14:57because the audience of the platform is
0:15:00so big and the user base is so large
0:15:02that you look at something like like
0:15:04when I think if these types of things
0:15:05and I've thought about making YouTube
0:15:07related apps and content and features
0:15:08it's like the universe of you know it's
0:15:10like there's probably under hundreds of
0:15:13millions if not billions of people who
0:15:16use YouTube and you start to play that
0:15:18game of like well what if I could only
0:15:19get like 1/10 of 1% of those people to
0:15:22download my app then that's huge and
0:15:23it's like well if you did get to do that
0:15:27if you did have an app that had a lot
0:15:29had a lot of success in almost it almost
0:15:32necessarily you will bigger you
0:15:34the more trouble you will have and as a
0:15:37business that sound it's like that
0:15:40sounds kind of fundamentally problematic
0:15:41that most of us when we're setting out
0:15:44to build something you know we wanted to
0:15:46have you have the ability to grow
0:15:48steadily over time whereas in a
0:15:51situation like with almost all these
0:15:52types of apps the bigger your app gets
0:15:54the more likely it is that the service
0:15:58that you're reliant on is either is
0:16:00going to become suspicious or you know
0:16:02concerned about you and maybe on the
0:16:04upside eventually that would lead to
0:16:05sound like an acquisition which is like
0:16:07I guess the best version of this you
0:16:09know like if YouTube had come along and
0:16:11said hey we're gonna buy you know we're
0:16:13gonna kind of a queue high IQ higher the
0:16:15Pro Tube app and you know get gained
0:16:18from the expertise and the experience of
0:16:20this developer like that would be the
0:16:22happy ending but you know there's no
0:16:24guarantees if a happy ending in
0:16:25something like this also keep in mind
0:16:27like if even even in that scenario where
0:16:30they equi hi are you think about the
0:16:33leverage that they have that situation
0:16:34versus the leverage you have in a
0:16:36situation yeah they could bring you in
0:16:37the room and say look you can come work
0:16:39for us for whatever amount of money
0:16:41we're gonna offer you which probably
0:16:42doesn't need to be that much because of
0:16:44what we're about to say or we're gonna
0:16:46shut you down
0:16:47that's it like we're gonna cut off your
0:16:48API access or you can come work for us
0:16:49like you don't have a lot of leverage in
0:16:52that negotiation they have all the power
0:16:53so that even that is not a great outcome
0:16:56especially to if you do implemented
0:16:59features that aren't things that are
0:17:02technically difficult in this editing
0:17:05like like Twitter bought Tweety because
0:17:08Lauren bricked her is a deus and was
0:17:11doing things like he invented
0:17:13pull-to-refresh and he was doing crazy
0:17:15iOS performance stuff in a way that at
0:17:17the time very few people could touch and
0:17:20so like his leverage wasn't that he was
0:17:23doing things that he was he was doing
0:17:25things that Twitter just couldn't
0:17:26recreate whereas in you know in this
0:17:29case it becomes much trickier and your
0:17:31position is would definitely be a much
0:17:32weaker where it's like it's things that
0:17:34the content provider or the platform
0:17:36owner is consciously choosing not to
0:17:39implement your leverage goes down
0:17:42dramatically yeah and I think one of the
0:17:45reasons I think we see a lot of younger
0:17:48developer
0:17:48falling into the trap of assuming that
0:17:51they can build an app on this kind of
0:17:53thing and and that they'll be okay and
0:17:55that or that will be okay and they you
0:17:58know some of that just comes with
0:17:58experience of you know whether you trust
0:18:01that kind of stuff or not but also you
0:18:03know I feel like humor developers have
0:18:05I'm sorry this is insulting I don't mean
0:18:07it to be there they don't often
0:18:10distinguish well between what's a public
0:18:12good on the internet and what's a
0:18:13private service or or you make
0:18:15assumptions about about the private
0:18:17services that they are maybe more
0:18:19publicly available or more publicly open
0:18:22or that you have more rights than you
0:18:24actually have and like this is one of
0:18:27the things one of the reasons why all US
0:18:29olds talk about things like the open web
0:18:31and open protocols and open formats
0:18:35decentralization because so much of the
0:18:39internet now is privatized so much of
0:18:42usage of metrics of time spent is
0:18:46happening under the complete control of
0:18:49one of a handful of web giants that
0:18:53there's almost nothing public left that
0:18:56a lot of people think about and use all
0:18:58the time and think about every day like
0:19:00almost all usages in Facebook or you
0:19:04know Google does all the searches and
0:19:06YouTube does all the video and so if you
0:19:09actually want to you know try to build
0:19:12something lasting build it on open
0:19:14platforms and open standards and in open
0:19:16places where you can be the business you
0:19:18can be the service that's in control
0:19:20this is one of the reasons I like
0:19:22podcasting so much because Apple has
0:19:24some role in it but not actually a very
0:19:26major one anymore and so my main
0:19:28dependency an apple is literally just
0:19:29the App Store like if the iTunes API
0:19:31shut down tomorrow I'd be totally fine
0:19:34so when you're choosing what to do build
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0:21:40their support of this show so related to
0:21:44this type of this discussion of pro to
0:21:47bene relying on external services I
0:21:49think interesting place to wrap up might
0:21:52be to also talk a little bit about
0:21:54exploiting developer opportunities in
0:21:57this kind of seeing seeing an
0:21:59opportunity seeing a niche that exists
0:22:03and then sort of trying to build an app
0:22:05inside of that because often I feel like
0:22:08that is the especially as a smaller
0:22:11developer one minute one one two three
0:22:13paper person team whatever your
0:22:16we are best able to thrive and flourish
0:22:19in these kind of small spaces that may
0:22:22be too small for a larger company to
0:22:25want to go after or maybe you have the
0:22:30ability to get in there right away like
0:22:32I've taken advantage of this many times
0:22:34myself where a new API you know is
0:22:37introduced in iOS or watch OS and I
0:22:40immediately jump on it and kind of dive
0:22:42in there to take advantage of it and
0:22:46it's interesting because I feel like in
0:22:48some ways this is what this app was
0:22:52doing but in others it's not and I think
0:22:56maybe it's interesting to you to kind of
0:22:57differentiate between the types of
0:22:58opportunities that are likely going to
0:23:02be sustainable down the road and those
0:23:05these types of opportunities that are
0:23:07tenuous and exist sort of if somewhat
0:23:11more transiently and it isn't
0:23:14necessarily that one you should only
0:23:15ever pursue the first and ignore the
0:23:17second because there are certainly
0:23:19opportunities I'm sure where it's like
0:23:21making an app that is useful or exists
0:23:24you know solely for a few weeks or a few
0:23:27months for you could potentially be
0:23:29worth doing I mean there's been numerous
0:23:33of these I think they like that they
0:23:34come up in the App Store like when the
0:23:36ipods first came out there's a whole
0:23:38there's a couple of apps that day where
0:23:39ipod found finders before Apple
0:23:42introduced to find my iPod into the find
0:23:44my friends app err pause yeah sorry
0:23:48sorry the air pause and that those like
0:23:51find my earpods apps like exists in this
0:23:54kind of tenuous space that I don't I
0:23:56mean ultimately I think a lot of them
0:23:57were pulled from the App Store so like
0:23:59maybe they didn't actually end up being
0:24:00financially viable in that sense but
0:24:02like that kind of an opportunity where
0:24:04it's like here's this thing that exists
0:24:05it may have a very short-lived lifespan
0:24:09but then like you can go in you can take
0:24:12advantage of it you potentially don't
0:24:14put in a massive amount of development
0:24:15resources into it and then you move on
0:24:17like that's interesting and that's
0:24:19potentially use useful in a lot of cases
0:24:23versus I think it's it's keeping in mind
0:24:25that there are other opportunities that
0:24:27are just these you know building an app
0:24:28that
0:24:29is filling filling a filling a space
0:24:32that is too small for someone s a penis
0:24:36it's too small for a big competitor to
0:24:38come in and try and compete with you
0:24:40with and just so you know surviving in
0:24:43there and taking advantage of that space
0:24:44like I mean I think of this some of
0:24:47these like that and for some reason I
0:24:49think I'm on the Mac a lot more about
0:24:51these but there's so many of these like
0:24:52little tools these little utilities that
0:24:55exist to solve a little annoyance or fix
0:24:59something that's just you know doing
0:25:01window management I mean is a common
0:25:03example of something on the Mac maybe
0:25:05where like you're solving this little
0:25:06problem that isn't you know that
0:25:09theoretically Apple could one day come
0:25:10along and Sherlock you and usually that
0:25:12is the like the big risk for these kinds
0:25:14of apps worse you know you have some
0:25:16some bigger person will eventually come
0:25:18along and then slurp up the that space
0:25:20but you can often this you know we have
0:25:22a sustainable business for a long time
0:25:24or you can be in these kind of in this
0:25:27kind of a situation where maybe other
0:25:29people aren't going after it the
0:25:31opportunity because it's kind of dubious
0:25:33or kind of tenuous as to whether it's
0:25:35something that's allowed but I don't
0:25:38know other things is worth just
0:25:40considering and probably the overall
0:25:42lesson is before you it's so easy as a
0:25:45developer I think choose to start down
0:25:47the road of development when you see an
0:25:49opportunity to like that to just go in
0:25:51and do it and worry about like you see
0:25:53this technical opportunity and you go
0:25:55and try and solve it but it's probably
0:25:57the important thing is or that I've
0:25:59learned from my experience is to take
0:26:00just like two or three steps back and be
0:26:02like what is this likely going to look
0:26:04like down the road is this an app that
0:26:07I'm going to want to maintain is this an
0:26:10app that I'm that I think would make a
0:26:11sustainable business do I think what is
0:26:13the likelihood of this being sure locked
0:26:16down the road I mean actually this very
0:26:18summer like I had a couple of ideas for
0:26:20apps related to iPad multitasking and
0:26:23some of the new changes there and I
0:26:25think ultimately I've decided I'm not
0:26:26going to ultimately ship them because
0:26:28the more I looked at it and the more I
0:26:30decided like I'm solving this very niche
0:26:34narrow like problem that I think will
0:26:37exist for at most a year probably less
0:26:40you know that I think these there's
0:26:42these little
0:26:43Edge's that Apple will likely sand down
0:26:45over the next couple of point releases
0:26:47and do I really want to go through the
0:26:50effort of building out a fully featured
0:26:52app and then putting it out and
0:26:54supporting it and maintaining it and
0:26:55having this sort of this expectation of
0:26:58death then that if Apple solves it that
0:27:00half solves it or makes it worse then
0:27:02like it's becomes this thing that I need
0:27:04to manage and I just decided you know
0:27:05it's probably not worth it and I think
0:27:07doing that exercise is something I
0:27:09didn't used to do and so I just wanted
0:27:11to mention it as something to encourage
0:27:13everyone else to whenever you see these
0:27:15little opportunities make sure we're
0:27:17being thoughtful about if it's a if it's
0:27:19a good if it's a good thing that is
0:27:22going to come back to benefit us in the
0:27:24future and if it's not go into it with
0:27:26eyes open saying like I'm making making
0:27:27this app that I expect to sell for a few
0:27:30weeks or a few months and that's okay
0:27:32and if it you know had if it was a big
0:27:34big flash and a big fall that's fine I
0:27:36mean I have failed to learn this less
0:27:39than so many times I mean I made a
0:27:41magazine then relighted it in like
0:27:43running a magazine I made an ad blocker
0:27:45then realized it's a terrible business I
0:27:46didn't want to be in that made that
0:27:50mistake so in terms of like being on you
0:27:52and especially like in the case of the
0:27:53ad blocker and even to some degree
0:27:54Instapaper when you are kind of like
0:27:57living on the edge of what might be
0:28:00considered legal with copyright or
0:28:02things like copyright there is a huge
0:28:05market of people who want that kind of
0:28:08thing and you can build a business there
0:28:10but it's like building a business on the
0:28:12edge of volcano like it is a very very
0:28:16high risk and you never know like what
0:28:18could blow up in your face and really
0:28:20cause problems for you I mean people who
0:28:22made a blockers we're getting sued like
0:28:24not that long after I stopped making in
0:28:27and I just narrowly dodged that risk so
0:28:30again it's like there are there's a
0:28:32business to be had here but do you want
0:28:35that business are you willing to accept
0:28:37the risks of that and how long is that
0:28:39going to be a business and and how much
0:28:41that is in your control yeah and I think
0:28:43- it's the maturity of being okay with
0:28:47missing out is ultimately what I think
0:28:50it came down for that like I had to grow
0:28:52as a person to the point that I could
0:28:53say
0:28:54if I don't do this and someone else does
0:28:57I need to be okay with the fact that
0:28:59they may have a good run or it could it
0:29:02be successful and not play they like
0:29:03what if I had done it if only I had done
0:29:05it kind of a game because ultimately
0:29:07that's just going to drive you crazy
0:29:08like you have to be like make an
0:29:10informed decision give it some thought
0:29:12and then just be able to be like you
0:29:13know like that was the choice I made and
0:29:16live with that rather than just sort of
0:29:17making these choices out of just the
0:29:19fear of potentially missing out down the
0:29:21road like that's no way to to build a
0:29:24business or support or made do to make
0:29:25choices in ways that it's going to be
0:29:26you know sustainable for your look your
0:29:28your mental health thanks for listening
0:29:32everybody and we'll talk to you next
0:29:33week bye