0:00:00the incomparable number 143 2 20 30
0:00:11welcome back to be uncomfortable podcast
0:00:13I'm your host Jason smell and we are
0:00:14here tonight to talk about JJ Abrams
0:00:18revisiting rebooting a star trek most
0:00:23specifically the new film star trek into
0:00:26darkness but i think we could also talk
0:00:28in general about the the previous movie
0:00:30too because that predates this podcast
0:00:33the 2009 edition of Star Trek joining me
0:00:37to discuss the the new star trek movies
0:00:41are a fine collection of folks dad
0:00:45morons here is always hide am I Jason to
0:00:48pleasure to have beamed in for this
0:00:49occasion thank you more of a deep space
0:00:51nine guy but it's nice of you two to
0:00:53take got baptized see a little bit of
0:00:55everything alright fair enough you you
0:00:58know what is it a big star Wars fan like
0:01:00Dan but he's on this podcast it's john
0:01:02siracusa hi John
0:01:03yeah I missed the the wrath of khan
0:01:05episode which was the one you know
0:01:07classic Star Trek movie that I would
0:01:10possibly want to be on well for
0:01:12Charlie's want to do I there we have
0:01:14done that one yeah
0:01:16so here i am also here my-my go to Star
0:01:20Trek expert Scott multi-ply Scott oh I'm
0:01:25excited to talk about Star Trek for
0:01:26president and also a david lawrence here
0:01:31hi David hello I guess I why don't we
0:01:34start by by going back to 2009 and
0:01:36talking about the original JJ Abrams
0:01:38reboot movie a little bit you know i
0:01:42liked it i saw it twice in the theater I
0:01:44have the DVD or blu-ray i watched a
0:01:46bunch of times you know it's certainly
0:01:49not without its flaws but you know what
0:01:52I really liked about it was going back
0:01:54to the original which is obviously it's
0:01:55one of the most influential you know TV
0:01:57shows of my life I can't remember not
0:01:59watching the original Star Trek have
0:02:01seen those episodes as detailed in a
0:02:03couple previous episodes the
0:02:05incomparable so many times and I thought
0:02:08they did a really good job of taking
0:02:09this those classic characters and this
0:02:12franchise that was kind of on its last
0:02:14legs and and revitalizing it making it a
0:02:17modern enjoyable film that you know
0:02:22audiences really liked and and i enjoyed
0:02:24a lot even though it does have some some
0:02:26things that bug me about it in young
0:02:28talents I i really love it i'm just kind
0:02:30of interested before we get started on
0:02:33the new movie to go around and get your
0:02:35guys take on on that the cliff face as
0:02:38if there were remember back to episode-
0:02:4060 of the uncomfortable when we talk
0:02:43about it in 2009 I remember it like this
0:02:48now there's no flash back we went on the
0:02:49air then hmm so uh so we will start with
0:02:53Scott since he's the resident star trek
0:02:55expert you know give a little overview
0:02:57of your thoughts of the 2009 movie
0:02:59well III went to it much like I imagined
0:03:04Dan and John went into the Phantom
0:03:07Menace except when i left my soul was
0:03:11not crushed
0:03:12wow I i was happy try that knife a
0:03:15little bit more scared
0:03:16sorry because you have no soul true i
0:03:20had removed before i went to see the
0:03:21movie I was quite happy that the the
0:03:23reboot i thought was faithful at least
0:03:26in tone to star trek i mean i have I i
0:03:29wonder if they really had to blow up
0:03:31Vulcan but others and that does anybody
0:03:35really have to do anything that's really
0:03:37the whole coincidence if you know Spock
0:03:39is just hanging out in an ice cave and
0:03:42Kirk just happens to land on that planet
0:03:44and they happen to run into each other
0:03:46and then they happen to see Vulcan get
0:03:49destroyed its kind of stretching it but
0:03:52overall thumbs up there enough John
0:03:56yeah I didn't I have a false memory of
0:03:59us doing a podcast about average
0:04:01I think you would have yeah because I
0:04:04and I was I was about to say remember we
0:04:06when we talk about that like when i
0:04:08first watched the movie I must talk
0:04:09about something you guys about it in
0:04:10person
0:04:11I remember complaining about like the
0:04:15the silly scenes where Kirk's running
0:04:17around with his hand all puffy and some
0:04:19of it weird tone tonal shifts in the
0:04:21middle and like I had complaints and I
0:04:24was like it was good I liked it but you
0:04:26know but I wish they hadn't like after I
0:04:28saw the theater like that was fun but
0:04:29like the bad parts are stuck in my craw
0:04:32and i recently rewatched it with my son
0:04:36which will be a thing later when we talk
0:04:37about this movie and I liked it way more
0:04:41the on you know I guess is probably my
0:04:44third of you because i think i saw it
0:04:45some other way i like the way more
0:04:47seeing it you know
0:04:47recently many years after its release
0:04:49because i was able to like the idea
0:04:52silly parts the annoying parts didn't
0:04:55bother me as much and I was just able to
0:04:57appreciate the things I really did like
0:04:59about the big dramatic beginning the
0:05:01Cecilia over-the-top introduction of
0:05:03child Kirk like some of it just like
0:05:05went around the bend you know that
0:05:07slingshot around the Sun so to speak
0:05:09sure and and managed to come out the
0:05:11other side and I was just able to enjoy
0:05:13it as good goofy fun and enjoy the space
0:05:15battle things and just like and maybe
0:05:18it's because I i watch it again leading
0:05:20up to knowing I was going to see the new
0:05:22one because I just wanted to get back
0:05:24into that mindset and seeing the JJ
0:05:27Abrams style star trek lens flares and
0:05:30all like it there's a particular visual
0:05:32and kinetic style to the way he's chosen
0:05:34to do Star Trek that I think is
0:05:36different than the least the other
0:05:37property jayven properties that I've
0:05:39seen from him i was on board with that
0:05:41and watching it again
0:05:43I liked it more and I was excited to see
0:05:45the next movie alright which you did but
0:05:47we'll get to that David what about you
0:05:50well you know I saw it you're well I saw
0:05:52all the spoilers for it beforehand
0:05:55even though it hadn't come out you know
0:05:56there's it's gonna be well I mean you
0:05:59know Spock is going to be back and it's
0:06:02gonna be a diverging timeline and then
0:06:04they delayed the movie for a couple
0:06:05months so I had all that time to be
0:06:08sitting there going to virgin timeline
0:06:10to god no and I got all that anger out
0:06:14is nothing sacred exactly is the
0:06:17continuity built up like little layers
0:06:19of a coral reef over 40 years that it
0:06:22doesn't really interest anybody but
0:06:23Phil's lots of reference material sacred
0:06:26exactly maybe tipping my hand here a
0:06:28little bit okay go out and it is secret
0:06:31it well yeah
0:06:33oh yes so I just sort of I expiated all
0:06:36of that before i went to see the movie
0:06:37and so as soon as it came out as you
0:06:39know the midnight sneak preview
0:06:41alright I'm there
0:06:42and I didn't mind and it kept going and
0:06:47i still didn't mind and by the end of
0:06:50the movie
0:06:51yeah i had had issues with it but I just
0:06:55enjoyed the cast and the chemistry so
0:06:57much and as soon as the orchestral
0:07:01version or the full orchestra playing
0:07:02the classic theme and the planets
0:07:05zooming up at you i had the biggest
0:07:07stupid smile on my face and I think I
0:07:09had it all the way home and I got home
0:07:11and my wife looked at me and said good
0:07:13as well
0:07:14oh yeah yeah that was the best magic
0:07:18trick that movie that theme at the end
0:07:20because I held it the whole thing I just
0:07:21put at the end and like this cheating is
0:07:24cheating they're sending you out and
0:07:25like you know they withheld it the whole
0:07:27movie and they send you out on that note
0:07:29and how can you not go to the theater
0:07:31smiling at
0:07:31oh yeah can't believe that in the entire
0:07:34history of the star trek movie franchise
0:07:36they never played the freaking theme
0:07:40song thats true yes the Star Trek the
0:07:42motion picture they use the theme song
0:07:44that would eventually become the next
0:07:45generation stamps on now they'll do the
0:07:46do to do to do to do but they never
0:07:49actually like played the original
0:07:51exactly they never get it yet and and
0:07:56that was that moment in that movie was
0:07:58like oh my god I've just enjoyed this
0:08:00entire moving and now and now this
0:08:02yeah what more could you ask for you
0:08:05know I was gonna say about the
0:08:06continuity it's not as if like a man
0:08:07comes to your house when you see the new
0:08:09Star Trek and takes your dvds of the old
0:08:11star trek and breaks them and set your
0:08:13books on fire
0:08:14a man came to my house and did that but
0:08:17it wasn't connected
0:08:19oh no that was me dab you snow snow
0:08:23Simon Pegg did come to my house and burn
0:08:25only Star Wars stuff after Finn panting
0:08:27minutes can you blame him
0:08:30references list my main problem with the
0:08:33the star trek 2009 was that the villain
0:08:36was not all that interesting to me
0:08:39oh yes he had a cool ship but he was
0:08:41just a pissed-off minor I was like a
0:08:43yeah who cares and and it didn't you
0:08:45know where was he for all of the years
0:08:47between baby Jim Kirk and grownup Jim
0:08:50Kirk it was bad
0:08:52he's off doing stuff he was in a Klingon
0:08:54prison but that was really boring so
0:08:56they just cut that scene out the DVD but
0:08:59you're right in fact that whole the
0:09:01whole as clever as the diversion time
0:09:03lineas and as wonderful as an opening
0:09:06scene as the opening scene with the
0:09:08Kelvin with Kirk's father sacrificing
0:09:11himself
0:09:12I and all of that is so great and yet
0:09:15the mechanics of Nero and I actually
0:09:19think the worst single thing in that
0:09:21entire movie is the when Spock does his
0:09:24lengthy monologue that doesn't make any
0:09:26sense
0:09:28yes where he says oh there was a black
0:09:30hole then I had the red matter and that
0:09:32there was no a star that threaten the
0:09:34galaxy which doesn't make any sense and
0:09:36it and it's just like we just needed
0:09:38this to happen and I i read the in on
0:09:41the commentary track on the blu-ray uh
0:09:42they actually say that originally
0:09:44Leonard Nimoy's voiceover was clear and
0:09:46they made it all weird and distorted
0:09:48looks like don't pay attention to what
0:09:50he's saying it's just but whatever blah
0:09:52and it's and it's the weakest thing in
0:09:54the movie is actually this kind of like
0:09:56the villain in the and the mechanism of
0:09:57the plot its speaking of the last doctor
0:10:00who episode and Clara Clara has a plot
0:10:03device instead of a character like I
0:10:05that's when you know you've been you're
0:10:07naming all the things that I didn't like
0:10:08about your first movie and starting to
0:10:10make me not like it again because we're
0:10:11going on that instead of the good parts
0:10:13but I for you if you are if you were a
0:10:16big star trek fan this thing that they
0:10:18did with the thing going back in time
0:10:20and creating a virgin diversion timeline
0:10:22is perhaps the most respectful possible
0:10:25way you can reboot the franchise because
0:10:26you are you are saying we are not going
0:10:28to touch like what really quote-unquote
0:10:30really happened like that will always be
0:10:32there we're not pretending it didn't
0:10:34happen just telling saying it's not even
0:10:36really a reboot it's a mere continuation
0:10:38and and in that respect Nero is a plot
0:10:41device whose purposes to allow us to
0:10:44have a new franchise to kiss to make
0:10:45this movie completely unencumbered by
0:10:47continuity largely by from the point of
0:10:51the divergence b but never met was a
0:10:52rational point of view that did yet you
0:10:54are like there-there they are making
0:10:56themselves more income than they have to
0:10:57because they want to do modules and all
0:10:59the ridiculous things when the reality
0:11:00would have diverged so much that nothing
0:11:02resembling any other movies would ever
0:11:03happen except maybe the whale think its
0:11:05toll on its way right but it i thought
0:11:08that was such like that was one of the
0:11:11things that you know the theme song at
0:11:12the end is like I realized and guess
0:11:14what they can do anything they want from
0:11:15here and it shouldn't piss anyone off
0:11:17because they are leaving intact the real
0:11:20you know Star Trek timeline but now
0:11:22they're free to do whatever they want
0:11:24and so that's that's one of the reasons
0:11:25i was so excited about the second movie
0:11:27I I a bunch of arguments with people on
0:11:29Twitter about the about the star trek
0:11:31into darkness you may have noticed and
0:11:33one of the ones that I got a lot was
0:11:35well they shouldn't change continuity
0:11:36issues just been you know with it
0:11:39painting within the numbers within the
0:11:41little lines of existing establish
0:11:43continuities like wow there's no drama
0:11:45and I've seen prequels and not just Star
0:11:48Wars I mean there's no drama in the
0:11:52leading up to the obvious and mandatory
0:11:55eventualities I I just think it's it's
0:11:57it would be boring in the extreme to do
0:12:00that and and so you know their moments
0:12:03in star trek into darkness where I
0:12:05actually I'm thinking where they going
0:12:06to kill some of the main characters not
0:12:08that 1i knew they weren't gonna kill
0:12:10that one and we'll get to that but but
0:12:12that you know there were moments where I
0:12:13actually felt like jeopardy for the
0:12:15characters and of course it was just a
0:12:16straight-on prequel I would never felt
0:12:18that Dan did I I didn't get to you did I
0:12:21i think the first thing that struck me
0:12:22watching the movie was I that I don't
0:12:25believe there is a oscar forecasting but
0:12:27if there were I think this movie should
0:12:29win every year i think they did they do
0:12:33one of the best casting jobs i think i
0:12:34could ever like they they managed to
0:12:37perfectly nail all of these characters
0:12:39so that they were familiar yet not
0:12:43dislike that distinctly different at the
0:12:45same time and to me that was that was
0:12:48quite the coup because i remember
0:12:50reading the cast list when it came out
0:12:51here like reading like okay
0:12:53Zachary Quintos playing Spock what yeah
0:12:55I can see that and and simon Pegg's
0:12:57playing Scotty well that's awesome and
0:12:59and John chose playing salute well
0:13:01that's a great choice you know and you
0:13:02keep kind of going and going there were
0:13:04a couple people i was unsure of the
0:13:05first time around but Karl Urban really
0:13:07really want me over i think im so yeah
0:13:09okay to John earlier tonight actually
0:13:11that that uh I i will now watch pretty
0:13:13much anything with him in it because it
0:13:14is this
0:13:15just a couple scenes where he just
0:13:16totally nails it which caused good
0:13:19because he's doing an American accent
0:13:20that show where he hasn't he's a cop
0:13:21with a robot partner
0:13:23oh I'm gonna watch that now yeah i watch
0:13:25Gunsmoke was a cop
0:13:26I think maybe bones is is is the best
0:13:28casting of the mall which is saying
0:13:30something because I i agree with you i
0:13:32think they did they did a good job and i
0:13:34remember reading something during the
0:13:36production of that first movie that they
0:13:39were approaching it they said look
0:13:40because this was controversial like
0:13:42other actors playing these parts they
0:13:43said look these are classic roles is
0:13:44your classic characters you know
0:13:46different productions of Shakespeare
0:13:47have different actors and have had that
0:13:50for hundreds of years like it isn't the
0:13:52character of Captain Kirk something so
0:13:53so great isn't the Kirk Spock McCoy
0:13:55relationship so interesting that it
0:13:58deserves to be explored further and not
0:14:00just by the original actors so we've had
0:14:03six guys play James Bond right like you
0:14:06know which is also an iconic characters
0:14:07i don't see really a problem with that
0:14:09the other thing which is kind of John
0:14:11touched on was this the divergent
0:14:13timelines as a way to keep the original
0:14:15canon intact which the more i think
0:14:16about the more I find brilliant because
0:14:18the problem to a certain extent well so
0:14:22a lot of the earlier Star Trek movies
0:14:23and hang you know hold up alright i
0:14:26think the problem to a certain extent is
0:14:27that they don't really play to the
0:14:30modern movie goings in the same way that
0:14:34we didn't they didn't like James Bond
0:14:36like James Bond has to get reinvented
0:14:37for every era because you know Roger
0:14:39Moore isn't going to fly in the 2000s
0:14:41besides the fact is like 90 but it's
0:14:43like that there's a different tone right
0:14:45like there's a different there's a
0:14:46different style of filmmaking at the
0:14:47time dimension and that's the thing that
0:14:49star wars fans are stored friends like
0:14:51to complain so much about with the
0:14:52special editions is like well it's like
0:14:54you're trying to take a 70s movie and
0:14:55making into a nineties movie and that
0:14:57feels really weird and so they they were
0:15:00able to diverge the timelines and and
0:15:02you know treat the separate thing that
0:15:04is very much of its era it's very much a
0:15:06movie of it of its time and yet has a
0:15:10lot of you know the the same elements we
0:15:13really like because like you know you
0:15:15look back at like the bridge from the
0:15:16enterprise in the original series it's
0:15:17like when you couldn't have like the
0:15:19blinking lights today right like it
0:15:21would work it would look silly with the
0:15:22switches short switches are great those
0:15:24witches are awesome i mean the scene i
0:15:25always say the scene that they got
0:15:27me and the first trailer seen that I
0:15:30loved so much was the scene it's just a
0:15:33one-shot of the Sulu like moving the
0:15:35lever to make the enterprise go to warp
0:15:39i just i love it's like this chrome
0:15:41lever it looks like a hot rod remember
0:15:44when I put that screenshot on Mac os10
0:15:46review
0:15:46yes yes because i was a quicktime player
0:15:49and like yes that that one image jumped
0:15:51out at me as well so much so that I very
0:15:53intentionally chose it because you have
0:15:55to show something playing in the movie
0:15:56thing is that exact scene and to speak
0:15:58to it i think that you know i will say
0:16:00that that this the star trek is the best
0:16:03Star Wars movie we've had in the last
0:16:04like 15 years but it is i mean like in
0:16:08that you've seen you've no doubt if
0:16:10people haven't seen these the shot you
0:16:12know side-by-side shots of like Star
0:16:14Wars and Star Trek it's it's pretty like
0:16:17there's a user's a youtube video where
0:16:19they compared like you know Kirk going
0:16:21out on his little like speeder bike out
0:16:23to the enterprise and looking up at the
0:16:24enterprise to Luke going and looking at
0:16:26the sunset they call that the luke
0:16:28skywalker shot right JJ Abrams is a huge
0:16:31Star Wars fan was not necessarily a
0:16:33really big star trek fan before getting
0:16:34into this so i think to me you know it
0:16:38felt like it incorporated a lot of the
0:16:39things that i liked about Star Wars and
0:16:42there is that element of and we'll get
0:16:44into this little bit more with into
0:16:46darkness but the helmet of even if it's
0:16:48a totally different timeline there are
0:16:50still dare I say it fixed point or like
0:16:55well there are there are elements in it
0:16:57i like the idea of there are elements
0:16:59like there's inescapable things like
0:17:01Kirk and you know certain villains are
0:17:04going to meet up no matter what timeline
0:17:06it is clearly the first even the first
0:17:08of the first movie makes it clear it's
0:17:10like a they never says it but it's very
0:17:12clear that there has to be some the
0:17:14universe's wanting to get these people
0:17:16together that's why I can forgive mr.
0:17:18Spock being down cold spot being down on
0:17:20the the ice planet at when Kirk gets
0:17:23sent down there and that Scotty happens
0:17:26to be at the outpost there it's because
0:17:28you know the the timeline diverge but
0:17:31the universe is gonna get these people
0:17:32back together right and i think that
0:17:34makes it emotional sense but not
0:17:36rational sense it's like a Stephen King
0:17:37book where there's always some unseen
0:17:39force causing the story to control
0:17:41come to the shape that makes for a
0:17:42dramatic story and I think that that
0:17:44works from a sense of they bothered me i
0:17:46like you know I i had that you know sort
0:17:49of quibble the first time around and I
0:17:51think it was because i was very much
0:17:52holding onto this old like going into it
0:17:54expecting it to be much more like the
0:17:56star trek I'd grown up with which is all
0:17:58very rational and science fictiony and
0:18:00this was a little bit more fantastic and
0:18:03so I I mean once I sort of separated the
0:18:06element the part of me that was like it
0:18:08doesn't really feel like star trek from
0:18:09the part of me that's like yeah but I
0:18:11kind of like there's a story then I
0:18:12think I came around on it when when I
0:18:15was when I showed it to my son he you
0:18:18know he's picking out the different plot
0:18:19points and saying I was cool in this you
0:18:22know and he liked the timeline diverging
0:18:24worked and was amazed by that and when
0:18:28we got to that point you know how you
0:18:30know it's well Scotty's there an old
0:18:32spot is there and have been why is he
0:18:34there and doesn't make any sense and he
0:18:36said we act as Spock sent him to the
0:18:38planet and I went and even though it's
0:18:42not the same spot obviously but to him
0:18:45it made enough sense that there was like
0:18:48this residual idea for Spock to do that
0:18:52spacious spunkiness otherwise it's like
0:18:54why would you do that in the first place
0:18:57ok right because it because it had to be
0:18:59done exactly is the old sci-fi trope of
0:19:02planets in science fiction movies are
0:19:06about the size of a living room yes
0:19:08because no matter where you send someone
0:19:09down on a planet he is inevitably within
0:19:12walking distance of the most important
0:19:14thing or person on the entire planet
0:19:15that's just that's just a standard size
0:19:18five triples plants are actually really
0:19:19big and in reality you would spend seven
0:19:21years getting to the point really didn't
0:19:23there are that many around any given
0:19:25star and they're not very close together
0:19:26and yet there are several moments in
0:19:28this in the original Abrams Star Trek
0:19:31and in many other sci-fi movies words
0:19:33like planets tons of them they're all
0:19:35very close to each other and they're
0:19:36very small and it's like no that's not
0:19:38it I i also have to deal with the like
0:19:41the quote on quote rule-breaking and if
0:19:43I were wearing if I actually were
0:19:44classes i would be pushing them what up
0:19:46on my nose right now to say like the
0:19:48transporter doesn't actually work well
0:19:51at warp and you can't send people over
0:19:53those
0:19:53long distances from the the years and
0:19:56years I spent reading star trek
0:19:58technical manuals but again I just was
0:20:01like you know what I mean I it's finally
0:20:03we get there for a plot devised a way to
0:20:04go they had an in story explanation for
0:20:06that those like y'all this is you know
0:20:08the war the fortunes of the blah blah
0:20:10right it just bothered me at the time is
0:20:12it
0:20:12yeah as a plot device it's also just
0:20:14like a transfer student pretty much
0:20:15anything we want the two but then you
0:20:16look back at the old seriously like yeah
0:20:18you could like make separate people
0:20:19carry diseases like that's all sorts of
0:20:21things you can do with transport is the
0:20:22evil blankets
0:20:23yes make even sure who's to say you
0:20:25won't invent transparent aluminum that's
0:20:27right all right now with you but if that
0:20:29was the guy who went except except the
0:20:31differences that Scotty smart enough to
0:20:33immediately say excuse me are you for
0:20:34the future immediately making out is
0:20:38that you know Eric man is not very
0:20:40interesting by the way he's just he is
0:20:41either everything I just like that line
0:20:43to get these spit flying out of his
0:20:46mouth when he does it's great
0:20:47yeah and that's it that's a ship with no
0:20:49handrails no guardrails are sure it is
0:20:52very unsafe excellent balance that bad
0:20:55industrial design it doesn't even seem
0:20:57to have like a complete floor anywhere
0:20:59no that's a Romulan miners don't like
0:21:01it's therefore rocks like they don't
0:21:04around they do they do calisthenics and
0:21:08stuff and I stab you with a little pokey
0:21:09stabby thing if you miss them at least
0:21:11they were reasons can just throw I like
0:21:14that the industrial design the film is
0:21:15also really really great i mentioned the
0:21:17lever on the enterprise before but also
0:21:18i love the phasers i love that they have
0:21:20the whole thing that flips from likes
0:21:22done to kill ya
0:21:23that's awesome it's just it's not one of
0:21:25those touches that like it it would not
0:21:28have looked out of place in the 60
0:21:29series and yet it's still modern and to
0:21:32me that is awesome
0:21:34that's just brilliant design believe the
0:21:36enterprise is recognizably is the
0:21:38enterprise but I you know has a modern
0:21:42take on it that makes it again and the
0:21:45bridge the same way I mean the bridge is
0:21:47is more or less functional in the way
0:21:49that the original Star Trek bridge is
0:21:51but it doesn't look like it at all it's
0:21:53all apple store you know it's glass and
0:21:55white and yea alright a star trek into
0:21:59darkness just came out and we all saw it
0:22:01and
0:22:02I i'll put it out there
0:22:06I really enjoyed it i thought it was
0:22:07very entertaining again it doesn't it's
0:22:11not without its flaws but you know I
0:22:14actually think that it has fewer flaws
0:22:17them the 2009 movie starting with a much
0:22:21better villain but much more interesting
0:22:24actor doing much more interesting things
0:22:27then then Eric Bana
0:22:30sadly I mean he's not a terrible actor
0:22:32or anything but he's not given much to
0:22:33do and he doesn't do anything with it so
0:22:35you know and and and John Harrison
0:22:42aka the Mandarin is also known as con la
0:22:48what I did not pick up other know you
0:22:51missed me didn't notice that I thought
0:22:53he was playing James Caan yeah week on
0:22:56let me calculate you know and and he's
0:23:01he cover Benedict Cumberbatch's great uh
0:23:04Peter Weller is interesting although i
0:23:07think peter weller is going to be
0:23:09sinister and everything so when it turns
0:23:11out that he said Mr I was like I told
0:23:12you he was sinister it's peter weller it
0:23:14was a good guy robocop yeah trying but I
0:23:17agree he's not a guy that you cast to be
0:23:19like oh yeah that guy's a good guy Bruce
0:23:21Greenwood is the good guy
0:23:22yeah he's here Weller is not a good guy
0:23:24I either the thing with Cumberbatch's he
0:23:26does such a great job of looking like
0:23:28he's got such that such odd features in
0:23:31some ways that they really work with a
0:23:33Sherlock he looks he looks for till Ian
0:23:35to me in this like they do a really good
0:23:37job like nao he loses that cold-blooded
0:23:40like it's just so i'll make you so
0:23:43menacing i really be in to go from like
0:23:45Sherlock to that it's so white with
0:23:48flashy and and he's he said I mean this
0:23:50is really cool
0:23:51it amazes me that he got cast like two
0:23:54days before he started filming which
0:23:57yeah that's nuts but he said he went to
0:24:00the trouble of actually making every
0:24:03line reading sound a little bit alien
0:24:05sound like a little bit like he had been
0:24:07manufactured which makes sense right and
0:24:10so so everything after hearing that I'm
0:24:13kind of listening to him going oh yeah
0:24:15that's cool because it really is a
0:24:18different line reading from anything he
0:24:20doesn't Sherlock parades and don't watch
0:24:23parades and unless you want to watch him
0:24:25cry but Christ on cry it was an inspired
0:24:31choice because I i actually I would have
0:24:33loved to have been a fly on the wall as
0:24:35the producers of this movie kept
0:24:37approaching actors initially approaching
0:24:40hispanic actors who are like c'mon you
0:24:42want to do your take on like end and
0:24:45they're all like no I'm not going to do
0:24:46that
0:24:46no forget it forget it and they end up
0:24:49with this English guy and I think they
0:24:52mean I guess it was a gamble because
0:24:54nobody really knew who going to come
0:24:55Rebecca was at that point except those
0:24:57of us who would seem the first season of
0:24:59sherlock i guess but they will be locked
0:25:03out because he brings a whole lot right
0:25:07i mean you gotta have you got to have
0:25:09good a good interesting character with
0:25:12things to do but you really have to have
0:25:13a charismatic actor and Cumberbatch is
0:25:17that is that guy when I saw this movie
0:25:19the second time because i watched it
0:25:20twice i was sitting next to what turned
0:25:23out to be cumbered fans who were
0:25:26wheeling every time he appears on-screen
0:25:28it was considered was very strange but I
0:25:32I totally get it he's he's you know that
0:25:34they were very fortunate to cast him so
0:25:36suddenly as we're talking about this i
0:25:38really wanted there to be a scene in the
0:25:40movie where they cut away and Benedict
0:25:42Cumberbatch like goes to his little view
0:25:44screen and pulls it up and then calls
0:25:45like Ricardo Montalban and like yeah so
0:25:48I know this box over there getting
0:25:49advice from the spa can really open your
0:25:53shirt more it
0:25:54smiles everyone spot does the Enterprise
0:25:58bridge still have fine Corinthian
0:26:00leather no it's glass and white plastic
0:26:04do you still have the shield coat a
0:26:09four-digit prefer that would you be
0:26:11yes although again this is not this is
0:26:13not the wrath of khan because its way
0:26:14earlier and everybody and it's a little
0:26:16more like a you know almost space seed
0:26:18except spacey wasn't that great episode
0:26:21and was horribly sex system so you know
0:26:24other any other thoughts about the about
0:26:27Cumberbatch or any of the other acting
0:26:29performances and into darkness i think
0:26:30that might be a good place to do you
0:26:32mentioned a lot of the cast for the
0:26:34first movie but didn't mention one of my
0:26:37most pleasant surprises which is chris
0:26:40pine the casting for Kirk because that
0:26:42that I feel like is the toughest role to
0:26:44cast and all the some people might think
0:26:47it would be Spock and maybe that's true
0:26:48i'm just kind of spoiled by zachary
0:26:50quinto but you know what do you do with
0:26:52william shatner right like you don't
0:26:54know whether you're going to try to do a
0:26:57william shatner impression or be a
0:26:59different character but not end up as
0:27:01charismatic and chris pine has I feel
0:27:03his walk that line he's not doing
0:27:05william shatner impression he is
0:27:07charismatic I i connect
0:27:09with him like some of the challenges so
0:27:11they didn't like him i don't i don't
0:27:13know how you can dislike him in these
0:27:14movies he just he walks that line so
0:27:16amazingly well did not for a second do I
0:27:18question that this is a character that I
0:27:20like that i'm rooting for this
0:27:21entertaining me and never any me some
0:27:24some of his readings he will do you know
0:27:26the shatner thing but just barely enough
0:27:29for you to go ok you can have that one
0:27:30right and then he goes on in the last
0:27:32scene of the first movie he does that
0:27:34bones yes it is but you totally nailed
0:27:36it in that one I don't know how he does
0:27:38that but just a little chatter right
0:27:40just a little bit a little shudder goes
0:27:43a long way
0:27:43yes yeah he knows just the right amount
0:27:45to put in so you don't see it or hate it
0:27:47but it was enough to also be that
0:27:48callback moment of oh god it's really
0:27:50Kirk right like that's right it's not
0:27:52just some other dude in a yellow shirt
0:27:54right you know i think that was what
0:27:56sold it for me and then having these
0:27:59these different actors but with a
0:28:01chemistry that is also very much like
0:28:05the original chemistry
0:28:06yeah the relationships are familiar if
0:28:08the individual people aren't I was like
0:28:10I recognize that triangle the bones
0:28:12McCoy you know if you recognize that
0:28:14even though it's deep blue so clearly
0:28:15different people it's like you said
0:28:17about the Shakespeare you know the same
0:28:19roles different actors also one of the
0:28:20brilliant things that I didn't mention
0:28:21we were talking about that the original
0:28:22movie in that podcast that didn't accept
0:28:24John um is we never unlike so many shows
0:28:29and movies and things you know Star Trek
0:28:31started the original Star Trek started
0:28:33with them on their mission and so we
0:28:36haven't seen these characters at this
0:28:38point in their lives in either of these
0:28:40two movies right Kirk even at one of the
0:28:43complaints a lot of people had about the
0:28:44about the 2009 movie is that you know
0:28:46he's made the captain of the enterprise
0:28:48at the evidence like really he was just
0:28:50cheating at his Kobayashi Maru exam and
0:28:53now he's did you have no other captains
0:28:55that you could put in charge and this
0:28:57move on of them did get blown up right
0:28:58one into darkness addresses that right
0:29:01where where Kirk gets busted back to
0:29:02first officer because he's not ready and
0:29:05he's got response i mean for 10 minutes
0:29:06valuable lesson for that long
0:29:09I mean it is Star Trek they should have
0:29:11made him they should have busted out to
0:29:12cadet and then the whole movie could
0:29:14have been him just studying and
0:29:16Starfleet
0:29:19yeah that's one of the nice things about
0:29:21about seeing chris pine and his
0:29:23relationship actually with with Pike
0:29:25with bruce greenwood which is is his you
0:29:27know his father figure essentially and
0:29:30it's great because in the original Star
0:29:32Trek you end the movies other than spot
0:29:35dyeing Kirk does all this crazy stuff
0:29:37and he always gets away with it right
0:29:39and so it's good to have that early in
0:29:41his career like he's got that tendency
0:29:43and he's got somebody to push back at
0:29:45him and say you you know you were gonna
0:29:47be in trouble if you have if you have
0:29:49this attitude i was pleasantly surprised
0:29:51to have pike in as much a day of it is
0:29:54he is like in that first you know half
0:29:56hour so he people is a pretty important
0:29:58part and I i really like the screen
0:29:59would have been a fan of his for years
0:30:01and it was great to have that scene
0:30:03where they're sitting in the bar and you
0:30:05get a call back to yeah I remember that
0:30:06bar fight where you you know got the
0:30:08crap kicked out of you
0:30:09yeah yeah yeahs paper towels up your
0:30:11nose and everything and like it was just
0:30:13it was a nice scene that it really
0:30:16humanizes Kirk who as you said like
0:30:18oftentimes as the protagonist gets to
0:30:20get away with a lot of things but yeah
0:30:23having him be much more of a human
0:30:24character and kind of a script because
0:30:26he is always walk in that edge right
0:30:28he's always walking the knife's edge and
0:30:29trying to like not quite play by the
0:30:32book get things done and I they do a
0:30:34good job of capturing that I like the
0:30:36fact that this kirk this time lines Kirk
0:30:39I i connect with him more because
0:30:42basically they killed his father off
0:30:43right because i always felt like being
0:30:45out there the original Kirk was just
0:30:47made me know and we supposed to be smug
0:30:49but just maybe a little bit to smuggle
0:30:50feel like maybe his he had his life with
0:30:52his life was a little bit too easy going
0:30:54to start the quiz this card immediately
0:30:55kill off his dad and so he's you know
0:30:58someone growing up without a father has
0:30:59to find out that's why he's such a
0:31:01screw-up at the beginning of the 2009
0:31:04movie and in a way that I don't imagine
0:31:06you know the william shatner Kirk being
0:31:09that kind of a screw-up so it makes epic
0:31:10makes him more interesting in a Star
0:31:13Trek II kind of way of like Luke being
0:31:14this annoying whiny loser at the
0:31:17beginning of the movie
0:31:18it gives the character better arc and I
0:31:20feel like this guy's now a wild card
0:31:21because he is it basically he has had
0:31:24his formative experience of childhood
0:31:25without a father has to shape him into a
0:31:28more interesting more dangerous more
0:31:30damaged person then
0:31:32William chatter in some ways this movie
0:31:34uh you know the theme of this movie i
0:31:37would argue actually is is a willingness
0:31:40to sacrifice oneself and to place the
0:31:43needs of the many out in front of the
0:31:46needs of the fewer the one which is
0:31:48funny because that's that's from star
0:31:49trek to but that's not the theme of star
0:31:51trek to i would argue star trek to is
0:31:53about coming to grips with aging and the
0:31:56inevitability of mortality like all the
0:31:59Star Trek like well I mean that's
0:32:01actually one of the things that's
0:32:02interesting about this franchise now too
0:32:04is that they had old people you know
0:32:07agent people in all the rules so that
0:32:08was all about aging and now we've got
0:32:10young people in those same parts so it
0:32:12doesn't have to be about that there's
0:32:13not a lot of action franchises that have
0:32:15a cast bolstered by old people to when
0:32:17you think about it like it's unusual
0:32:18tired
0:32:20yes that's right that's a deception
0:32:22yippee-ki-yay card anyway uh what I like
0:32:25about about this this theme of sacrifice
0:32:28is that it gets to the heart of that
0:32:30Kirk not uh not accepting defeat and
0:32:33cheating the Kobayashi Maru and in this
0:32:35movie you know Kirk has to talk about
0:32:37sacrifice and Spock and con addresses it
0:32:42and in the end it's that you know that
0:32:45the challenge that's put to him by pike
0:32:47at the beginning and restated bike on
0:32:51which is when he says what would you not
0:32:53do for your family and in the end Kirk
0:32:57is put in a position where he has to
0:32:59make that choice and he does it he
0:33:01sacrifices himself for these things he's
0:33:03sacrificing himself to save his ship and
0:33:06to save his crew and that's a lie i
0:33:09agree with John I think that this is
0:33:11interesting material because it's seeing
0:33:14captain kirk learn things that I was not
0:33:17sure Katt Williams chapters captain Kurt
0:33:19learned yet rather than the getting old
0:33:21part we kind of have this as the growing
0:33:23up part right where you realize you
0:33:25can't always win
0:33:27you can't always come up with the plan
0:33:28that's going to get around all the
0:33:31obstacles you can always cheat fate
0:33:33essentially and I think that's it's a
0:33:35nice it's a nice it's a nice bookend in
0:33:37some ways to the older Star Trek films
0:33:39where it's you know you you're on the
0:33:41other side of that aging humph
0:33:43because Shatner's Kirk got to come of
0:33:46age with an intact set of parents in a
0:33:49Starfleet that was the gene roddenberry
0:33:51one where there's no money and
0:33:52everything you know everywhere all at
0:33:54peace and it's an exploratory thing
0:33:56whereas this kirk right away is it you
0:34:00know in a more damage situation and in
0:34:03the context of a Starfleet that is now
0:34:05you know 911 style militarized as a
0:34:07reaction to all the stuff that happened
0:34:09in the first movie which is no big theme
0:34:11of this movie as well
0:34:12yeah so he does not he he he's going to
0:34:15end up being shaped into a different
0:34:17person he just can't be that kind of
0:34:19la-dee-da kind of smaug I win everything
0:34:21and then think about my aging when i get
0:34:23the retirement age of the Shatner's Kirk
0:34:25go two planets and kiss all the alien
0:34:27girls
0:34:28yeah i mean like you said that hasn't it
0:34:30yes they haven't even started their
0:34:31five-year mission but you know in this
0:34:33movie right and it was going to be a 5
0:34:35mission and they're dealing with like a
0:34:38militarized Starfleet which is very I
0:34:40mean I can understand why star trek
0:34:41people may not like this movie because
0:34:43it's not the Starks they remembered but
0:34:44it makes for much more interesting story
0:34:46telling
0:34:46yes and and i would argue makes for some
0:34:49interesting debates about its decisions
0:34:52the characters make which every time I
0:34:54hear somebody say oh it was just
0:34:56explosions in action and I remember when
0:34:58Star Trek used to be about issues it's
0:35:00like did you not see the movie did you
0:35:02not see spot talking about how drone
0:35:04strikes are immoral and did you not see
0:35:06the whole thing about a guy in command
0:35:08of the military trying to create a war
0:35:13I mean hello the pen and the following
0:35:15going back to sacrifice
0:35:17there's also that thread of everything
0:35:20that Admiral Marcus is going to
0:35:22sacrifice is is using as a sacrifice you
0:35:25know sending Kirk and you know in the
0:35:28incursion into the Klingon space and all
0:35:30that stuff is he's willing to sacrifice
0:35:33Kirk in the enterprise whether they want
0:35:36to or not right not himself right is the
0:35:38same thing with sun sending just sit on
0:35:40the edge of the neutral zone and fire
0:35:41tore your torpedoes to the Klingon
0:35:44homeworld it's you know the remote no
0:35:46risk versus the personal I great
0:35:49personal risk connection
0:35:52not to mention you get to as a bonus
0:35:53murder all the people who are actually
0:35:54interpret
0:35:55exactly hiding like well and this star
0:35:59trek home gets to the the sort of the
0:36:01root of one of my one of my frustrations
0:36:04with star trek over the years which is
0:36:06to say there's a such a heavy focus on
0:36:10the alien and it's not that you know
0:36:13there's an interesting things and
0:36:14there's very much all an ongoing threat
0:36:16and star trek about culture right like
0:36:18cultures meeting cultures having
0:36:20different cultures you know Leslie steps
0:36:22on a flower and gets put to death record
0:36:24and I think so but to me with a problem
0:36:27with that for me was always that
0:36:30yeah it's interesting from sort of
0:36:31Alpine sky theoretical point of view but
0:36:33a lot of times i found it hard to relate
0:36:34to
0:36:35I like a lot of people consider our spot
0:36:37and data you know such interesting major
0:36:40characters and although they don't feel
0:36:41emotion and what's that like and I
0:36:42always found them kind of boring because
0:36:44if that like that that's not a person I
0:36:46can relate to and I think that having a
0:36:48story that revolves largely around you
0:36:51know people for lack of better words
0:36:53rather than like guys in funny suits for
0:36:56guys with makeup on their foreheads it
0:36:58makes it more relatable story to me and
0:37:01makes it more interesting because no
0:37:03matter what happens in the future people
0:37:05are still fundamentally people like even
0:37:08if you end up in that future where
0:37:09there's no like money and everybody's
0:37:11happy and you don't there's still people
0:37:13who get pissed off and people who you
0:37:16know try to do other people and all that
0:37:18stuff and so you know rather than I
0:37:20guess maybe I'm being pessimistic and
0:37:22not wanting to see people's better
0:37:23nature I'll Roddenberry but like just
0:37:25the reality of it like look that people
0:37:27are always going to be Petty and cruel
0:37:28to a certain extent but they're also
0:37:29always going to be you know heroic and
0:37:31try to raise the rise to the occasion
0:37:33and that is something i can recognize
0:37:36and as a story i really enjoy that
0:37:39rotten berries future was a great tool
0:37:41to do actual science fiction because if
0:37:44you're going to like the thing was like
0:37:45put whitewash the the human stuff like
0:37:48we eventually evolved beyond that stuff
0:37:50but now let the better angels of our
0:37:53nature as exemplified by Starfleet land
0:37:56on other planets with other people and
0:37:58it's an even more challenging situation
0:37:59because you know attics you know it you
0:38:01get to sell twat you get to tell
0:38:02Twilight Zone / real so you know
0:38:04speculative sci-fi type stories without
0:38:07being bogged down by all of the petty
0:38:10human type things but at a certain point
0:38:12like especially for star wars fan you
0:38:14find that a little bit of antiseptic and
0:38:17you want something else i mean it's it's
0:38:18the reason i guess they had the
0:38:19wherewithal to make Spock half-human
0:38:21because a full Vulcan or data or
0:38:24whatever it's like yeah alright you can
0:38:27do a few things with that but you spoke
0:38:29without inner struggle is like you know
0:38:31so the inner struggle makes makes a big
0:38:33difference
0:38:34yeah then this one like it's okay I like
0:38:36this one because it the run Barry run
0:38:39has to exist as a contrast to this one
0:38:42because it's like what if humanity
0:38:44didn't evolve up out of that you know
0:38:46sort of pizza were all in into this
0:38:48enlightened state because we got
0:38:50sidetracked by these things that always
0:38:52sidetrack us like you know oh well
0:38:53suddenly there's danger in our fear
0:38:55response kicks in and you start making
0:38:56bad decisions and you know good people
0:38:59have to fight against them whatever and
0:39:00i thought this movie speaking of a peter
0:39:03weller it's not miyazaki level here but
0:39:05they did a reasonable job not making him
0:39:08you know just crazy ridiculous bad guy
0:39:12who just wants to do terrible things
0:39:13like he believes more or less that he's
0:39:16doing the right thing that kind of lives
0:39:17at the animal right at the end he's a
0:39:18little more seat scenery-chewing but
0:39:20you're right he's got he's got a
0:39:22perspective right he's totally got a
0:39:24perspective right everyone has their
0:39:25reasons right and he and begin the movie
0:39:27has reasons he's not just like you know
0:39:29rubbing his hands together twirling his
0:39:30moustache and the Klingons are even in
0:39:33traditional star trek Lord they are not
0:39:36nice
0:39:37in the original series so they are a big
0:39:40threat it he says war is inevitable
0:39:42cycle yeah war with the Klingons another
0:39:44exactly is gonna happen
0:39:46what do you think's cap bomb all the
0:39:47Klingons Jesus we have to we have the
0:39:50preemptive strike before they get us
0:39:52only patrick stewart could bring these
0:39:53two races together only Nixon could go
0:39:56to children
0:39:57originally the topic of this podcast was
0:39:58going to be about the star trek movies
0:40:00vs Star Trek TV and which will be a
0:40:02great topic and we'll do it sometime but
0:40:04something John brought up there i would
0:40:05say is is part of the interesting thing
0:40:09here is that it movies have big budgets
0:40:11and need to bring in big audiences and
0:40:13it only can tell two hours of story and
0:40:16TV series can tell these little
0:40:18stories and then move on to the next
0:40:19planet and star trek was conceived as a
0:40:21TV series and it's become a movie series
0:40:24and even in the classic Star Trek movies
0:40:28it there was struggle there because some
0:40:31of the episodes are some of the movies
0:40:32that don't work so well read kind of
0:40:35like TV episodes really long TV episodes
0:40:38and satellites or or involving aliens
0:40:43who don't age because they live in a
0:40:45magical planet where they don't age but
0:40:47the notarized plastic surgery leads are
0:40:49very angry about anyway we'll get there
0:40:51in a later episode but I i think that's
0:40:53I think that's part of it too is that is
0:40:56that a movie like these JJ Abrams movies
0:40:58it's going to be a big-budget action
0:40:59movie it it kind of has to be and then
0:41:02the question is what else is in there
0:41:03and how effective it is it as an
0:41:05adventure movie and doesn't make you
0:41:07think a little bit and just have
0:41:08interesting character dynamics and and
0:41:10that's why I really like this movie is
0:41:12even though it it's got things you can
0:41:13pick apart and especially if you want to
0:41:15try to find fault you can find some
0:41:17fault but I enjoyed the whole thing and
0:41:19came out really you know excited and
0:41:22energized and happy and have a great had
0:41:24a great ride and when I thought about it
0:41:26more
0:41:26it unfolded more but it's not going to
0:41:29be like a hundred episodes of a TV
0:41:31series it just can't be it's a two-hour
0:41:33action summer blockbuster and and it has
0:41:36to play by those rules to a certain
0:41:38extent
0:41:39speaking of finding fault i was telling
0:41:40a damn Miller tonight that I don't know
0:41:43this is a mistake but it may be a
0:41:45mistake for that from the perspective
0:41:46this podcast but I'm seeing a lot of
0:41:47these movies with my son who is nine now
0:41:49I and seeing this movie or any movie
0:41:54like it with my son
0:41:55I'm not gonna say completely blocks out
0:41:57my ability to look to look objectively
0:41:58at the movie but like i mentioned this
0:42:00about cars before to the pixar movie is
0:42:02this your kryptonite
0:42:04if you are next to a nine-year-old like
0:42:06I took him to see this mean i showed him
0:42:08the 2009 version i got a chance to watch
0:42:09it again because I thought you would
0:42:11like it and he did and I took him to see
0:42:13this movie and this movie was so perfect
0:42:17like this could be his like his star
0:42:18wars movie was so perfect for him
0:42:20because there was nothing it's really
0:42:22gory like it wasn't too scary and just
0:42:25the action scenes were just unbelievable
0:42:27I mean I enjoyed it too but I'm thinking
0:42:28to myself wait a second
0:42:30did you because I came out of that movie
0:42:31thinking it was just fantastic like and
0:42:34it's not saying the critical thinking
0:42:35part of my brains have been disengaged
0:42:36it's all things wrong with it but I just
0:42:38cannot come down off of that high and
0:42:39half of it was because i was sitting
0:42:40next to a nine-year-old all-time who is
0:42:42just you know floored by the whole movie
0:42:44like I was telling them he came to the
0:42:46we saw the movie and for the next three
0:42:47days he would come from school going to
0:42:49the computer i'm going to trailers apple
0:42:51com watch the star trek into darkness
0:42:53trailer over and over and over again you
0:42:55know you you can forgive a lot if you're
0:42:56having fun and this is a not to call
0:42:58back to what is one of my least favorite
0:43:00episodes of the uncomfortable but when
0:43:02we did the Avengers you know it was
0:43:04clear that it was an Andy and I code
0:43:06didn't have fun when you seen that movie
0:43:07and he saw all the flaws i would argue
0:43:09that most movies have lots of things you
0:43:11could pick apart if you aren't having a
0:43:13good time and you forgive them if you
0:43:15are and I know that seems sort of
0:43:18strange but I think it's true that I i
0:43:20will forgive a lot if in the end i
0:43:22really enjoyed it and and I'll and if i
0:43:25am not having fun i will sit there and
0:43:27get very angry and I will tear
0:43:29everything apart and and and you know
0:43:32start the star trek movies and its
0:43:33target a lot like the Hulk that I'm like
0:43:36the whole don't make me angry
0:43:37no I just I I'm always angry damn that's
0:43:40our secret it is the other thing about
0:43:42into darkness though that like i was i
0:43:44was actually mention Andy it is well
0:43:46it's a movie like I know you guys only
0:43:49dinner together without me
0:43:50we were talking about the Avengers to
0:43:52begin time we got to really enhance a
0:43:54little bit but you know and and what i
0:43:57was saying was that like it
0:43:59the movie also need something exemplary
0:44:01to to bring it up in into darkness what
0:44:03I thought it was was the dialogue in the
0:44:07script I thought they were there were
0:44:09scenes that if you could describe them
0:44:11to me in the abstract i would say that's
0:44:13gonna be death on the screen like you
0:44:15know Spock and and her are gonna be in a
0:44:18fight and oh yeah Kirk is going to be
0:44:20there in like like oh that's going to be
0:44:21terrible or whatever but they pulled it
0:44:23off like it was just you know three or
0:44:25four lines all good lines well-acted
0:44:28provide like they were able to flesh out
0:44:31that relationship in the midst of an
0:44:32action movie in a way that was not
0:44:35cloying that was clever and that felt
0:44:37meaningful and like the same thing if
0:44:38you describe me out in the new star trek
0:44:40movies sparking are going
0:44:41we're gonna have a thing and you're like
0:44:43what what wait a second what and I
0:44:45totally believe that relationship on
0:44:47screen now like I accept it as canon in
0:44:49this new universe it does not bother me
0:44:51in the slightest and I think it adds to
0:44:52the movie and I never would have
0:44:53predicted that so I think that this
0:44:55second movie here is it has removed most
0:44:59of the goofy silly things that I didn't
0:45:00like about the first movie added in
0:45:02their place like good I mean I you know
0:45:05I like moonlighting to like so I know
0:45:06you have a little silly space between
0:45:09people that are that illuminate their
0:45:11characters and surrounded by what i
0:45:13think is a perfectly competent space
0:45:15action movie as Dan said probably one of
0:45:18the best Star Wars movies it's coming
0:45:19out many many years I you know how can I
0:45:22not like that like i do see the flaws
0:45:24now stepping away from it and some of
0:45:26the the shine is worn off or whatever
0:45:28but the good stuff just so vastly
0:45:30outweighs that you know I still know
0:45:32those characters and having those
0:45:33characters you you you know there's
0:45:36there's good dialogue you're absolutely
0:45:38right one of my favorites is when Kirk
0:45:40who are talking in the turbolift about
0:45:43Spock and he apologized because your
0:45:45boyfriend's body is like that was
0:45:46unprofessional and she's no you're right
0:45:48and then the line that he says when when
0:45:50we saw you having a fight and then he is
0:45:52that moment where he says oh my god what
0:45:55must that be like just is that how would
0:45:57that be to be a fight with Spock or they
0:46:00can go is so funny just so great in the
0:46:02door Harvey staying right here right
0:46:04already yes I asked a question about
0:46:06whether her still going mad at him and
0:46:07it sucks and it says something like
0:46:08uncertain which works as that which
0:46:11works as a logical Spock line but also
0:46:13works as a you know rides I'm knowing
0:46:16between friends statement about ya and
0:46:19of course the line that my wife and I
0:46:20have sounded surprisingly quoted back to
0:46:23each other since we saw this movie over
0:46:25and over again is no more metaphors
0:46:27that's an order
0:46:29i wonder if-if i should spy so the
0:46:33second time because i'm a gigantic nerd
0:46:35the second time I saw this movie I took
0:46:36notes for the podcast for the podcast
0:46:40sure did you have your Starfleet
0:46:42technical data on your lap you have one
0:46:44of those pens with a light yeah I didn't
0:46:46have one of those pens with the light so
0:46:49and I didn't have any reference material
0:46:51with me but i did my handwriting is so
0:46:53terrible that in absolute darkness
0:46:55it's no worse it's amazing how you would
0:46:57you say you went into dark notes into
0:46:59darkness nemesis Tom Scott uh-huh so I'm
0:47:07gonna I'm gonna obviously this is
0:47:08chronological because i took the notes
0:47:10as I was watching movie but if there are
0:47:11parts where everybody wants to jump in
0:47:13and talk about it will just by quickly
0:47:15step through the movie I want to start
0:47:17with the opening sequence which is James
0:47:20bond-like in a way right you have this
0:47:22fun action thing that that opens it up
0:47:25plus it gives you that flavor of the
0:47:26original TV series like they're on a
0:47:28mission where they're aliens and they're
0:47:30going to violate the prime directive but
0:47:33i wanted to point out to watching it the
0:47:35second time i was thinking this block is
0:47:38risking his life to save this planet
0:47:39that there's a parallel there between
0:47:42this planet and Vulcan which they didn't
0:47:44save and they're trying to save these
0:47:46people
0:47:46it's it's a call back it's a movie
0:47:50filled with callbacks to star trek to
0:47:51i'll grant you what's interesting here
0:47:53is that something I hadn't thought of
0:47:54originally instructor to we there they
0:47:57faked the death of Spock and the rest of
0:48:00the crew in the Kobayashi Maru at the
0:48:01beginning he so here Spock almost dies
0:48:04again at the very beginning of the
0:48:06second star trek movie I thought that
0:48:07was kind of knowing and obviously this
0:48:09is also sparks moment of self-sacrifice
0:48:11and duty where he finally accepts his
0:48:14fate it's interesting that he is kind of
0:48:16you know really like coming to do it
0:48:18he's like okay this is the moment this
0:48:20is my big moment I can just embrace
0:48:22death and he you know he shows he's very
0:48:25common sense of self and he shuts off
0:48:27his emotions and then they save them
0:48:29obviously but it was interesting that he
0:48:32was he was kind of like almost eager to
0:48:35to die in that located oh you may be
0:48:38projecting yeah well no I think there's
0:48:39a point where the the again that sort of
0:48:42if you want to play with destiny or that
0:48:44there are things that are commonalities
0:48:45between the two timelines I think that's
0:48:48interesting i think it's interesting in
0:48:49this jumping forward a little bit but
0:48:51you know in in star trek to I think you
0:48:53know Kirk ass to come to terms with sort
0:48:55of being bumped upstairs right because
0:48:57he's an admiral
0:48:58yes and and instead we have Kirk here
0:49:00busted down and taking off the you know
0:49:03off the captain's chair so that you know
0:49:05again interesting divergence in a Star
0:49:08Trek the motion
0:49:09picture reference of Pikes outfit is
0:49:10basically the outfits from Star Trek the
0:49:12motion picture and when he comes to tell
0:49:15Kirk what's going on in the bar he says
0:49:17they gave her back to me which is the
0:49:19line that's that's a line that Kirk says
0:49:21in Star Trek the motion picture so the
0:49:24references don't just start start and
0:49:26stop with wrath of khan there are
0:49:27references throughout i'm going to talk
0:49:31about the enterprise underwater though
0:49:34yeah we should you're right you're right
0:49:35now it is airtight should because it
0:49:38goes to space such a base has no
0:49:39pressure and and there's pressure in the
0:49:41also within the atmosphere although
0:49:43there are others it was built in the
0:49:45atmosphere was built the atmosphere and
0:49:47we've seen like Star Trek Voyager the
0:49:48Voyager could land on a planet and in
0:49:50tomorrow is yesterday the classic
0:49:51episode they're down with clouds when
0:49:53they kidnap that poor fighter pilot so
0:49:56but we haven't seen the enterprise
0:49:57underwater before and why is it
0:49:59underwater because it's cool because
0:50:02cool that's why it's underwater they
0:50:04want that scene of them coming out of
0:50:06the water i would look very cool but as
0:50:08I was thinking also think it makes no
0:50:10sense to hide your your spaceship in the
0:50:12water but i will give them that but i
0:50:15have to quibble with it
0:50:17listen I i like the idea that it's
0:50:19probably discourteous like you know
0:50:20what's a great idea we could put it
0:50:22underwater and there was like no no I'm
0:50:25the captain put it underwater it could
0:50:27have explained it away with boring
0:50:28dialogue but they could have been like
0:50:29well the and atmosphere is ionized the
0:50:31transporters won't work so we had to
0:50:32bring the ship down but we don't want
0:50:33anybody to see it but they gonna say
0:50:35that's so boring that you know you could
0:50:37say that there's a magnetic field they
0:50:38can't use the transporters and surely
0:50:41some reason that just inspires don't
0:50:43work
0:50:43forgive your keebler yeah well they hid
0:50:45they hid the enterprising the rings of
0:50:47Saturn in the first movie which also
0:50:48makes 0 so yeah alright little Titan's
0:50:51atmosphere but yeah whatever it was you
0:50:53have evidence that none none of these
0:50:54things make sense from a space science
0:50:56increases corner they like the
0:50:57enterprise coming out of things it was
0:50:59cool but I just have to say I think
0:51:00there are probably better solutions to
0:51:02that same problem what the solution to
0:51:05having a cool opening scene to a movie
0:51:07that's on a planet that's that's the
0:51:09problem they were self-help maybe they
0:51:11should have hidden it in matara nebula
0:51:13when we're back on earth we see Captain
0:51:17Kirk making out with a couple of cat
0:51:18ladies and as you do and it when you go
0:51:22back when you watch this again sometime
0:51:25the beginning of that scene I i could it
0:51:27could be saurian brandy or something but
0:51:29it looks kinda like there's a space bong
0:51:31in that apartment i'm just saying watch
0:51:34for it all bonds are spaced think there
0:51:36might be a space planning i don't know
0:51:37i'm not i'm not a I'm not a recreational
0:51:39drug user but I'm just saying
0:51:41are you a space mark there may be a
0:51:43spaceport in the cat girl's apartment or
0:51:47Kirk's or current Sparx you lit up it's
0:51:50an artifact of cultural significance to
0:51:52her race pace yeah totally insensitive
0:51:54sorry catgirls sorry half-naked cat
0:51:58ladies 98% naked cat ladies let's let's
0:52:03see the the death theme starts with the
0:52:07his argument with Pike where where Kirk
0:52:10is arrogant and says how many died that
0:52:121i didn't lose one person nobody dies
0:52:14today is that's really a do we skip over
0:52:17it or is it subsequently the Mickey
0:52:19Mickey kills much people
0:52:21yeah I think that's it was coming up
0:52:23this week I think that's next right I
0:52:25thought it was right after the show
0:52:26Mickey Mickey from my also the
0:52:28cumberbatch fans next to me when he came
0:52:30on-screen they're like it's Mickey like
0:52:33to start laughing and i said that i said
0:52:35we put on weight
0:52:36well it's there was 10 years ago the key
0:52:39from from from Doctor Who and said it
0:52:42was daughter is dying and Benedict
0:52:44Cumberbatch comes to him and here's your
0:52:46self-sacrifice again you know he will he
0:52:49will save his daughter in exchange for
0:52:52him but you know sacrificing himself and
0:52:55his honor and blowing up the the
0:52:57Starfleet facility and he takes the deal
0:53:00here's the thing about that that segment
0:53:02of the movie because when I was this one
0:53:04early on the movie when I all my
0:53:06critical thinking was still engaged and
0:53:08i was thinking like this this plotline
0:53:10of this guy who's going to do this thing
0:53:12is basically gonna be a pawn of content
0:53:14to fulfill this part of the pot there's
0:53:16not room in this movie for you to
0:53:18actually do that so the way they chose
0:53:20to fit in was to almost do it is like a
0:53:23silent movie where there's almost no
0:53:25dialogue like Mickey is there is great
0:53:27music healing and Mickey right but like
0:53:29they basically did it like they said
0:53:32look we have enough time like three
0:53:33lines there's no way we can come up with
0:53:35three lines that do
0:53:36nothing but cause damage this so let's
0:53:37just play it like a silent movie show
0:53:39him show the six dollars shows just have
0:53:41you know two lines with him and con and
0:53:43it it's the like I don't know if it
0:53:45worked that well even in the silent mode
0:53:47but I applaud them for finding a
0:53:49creative solution to getting these plot
0:53:51points and not exercising that plotline
0:53:53entirely because i was another option
0:53:54because you got a whole lot about the
0:53:55movie to fit in here but to have it in
0:53:57there and still have to be affecting and
0:53:59moving and interesting and exciting when
0:54:00the little ring blows up and all that
0:54:01stuff with almost no dialogue it was it
0:54:04was kinda like the opening section on up
0:54:05you know with no speaking part i was
0:54:08thinking it's almost a montage to music
0:54:10and i agree i tanned in Jason mentioned
0:54:13the music there and I know a couple
0:54:14people were mentioned on twitter before
0:54:16we start talking about this that they
0:54:17want to talk about the music i will say
0:54:19that that q is very it's very unlike the
0:54:23rest of the music from this movie or the
0:54:25previous yes you get this piano you soft
0:54:28piano music playing and yet it's
0:54:29incredibly effective if for what it is
0:54:33and it's one of the cues that stands out
0:54:36more to me in this movie much as I like
0:54:39a lot of the cno's work for the score is
0:54:42pretty good especially some of the main
0:54:44themes but I'm sort of mixed on his work
0:54:47overall yeah he he this is i read a
0:54:51review of the the inductor soundtrack
0:54:53but said it's like the expansion pack
0:54:55for the original soundtrack and that's
0:54:57about right right i mean it's he's gonna
0:54:59go use his themes that he already had
0:55:02and he's added some some more in and I
0:55:04you know I bought the soundtrack and I
0:55:05like it but it is in some ways it's much
0:55:08more than saying it's hampering some
0:55:10ways by the same also by the problem
0:55:12with the original which was that if you
0:55:13bought the original soundtrack there was
0:55:15actually that deluxe edition i think ben
0:55:16boychuk actually turned me on to that
0:55:18was there was like a double disc version
0:55:19which is much better because it's
0:55:21actually flushed out rather than being
0:55:23these vary at times random and
0:55:25disjointed Q's right but overall I mean
0:55:27he doesn't really hold up if you put him
0:55:29up against someone to me like John
0:55:31Williams where you can listen to a john
0:55:33williams sku in a vacuum and it's a
0:55:36fantastic piece of music whether or not
0:55:39it's applied to film where is the sequel
0:55:41like there's no Imperial March in this
0:55:44movie like it you know follow up the
0:55:45soundtrack to star wars with a
0:55:46soundtrack that has some song is iconic
0:55:49the imperial march like that's a tall
0:55:50order and I think he's doing well to
0:55:53have like the first movie I think he's
0:55:55landed solidly on both feet with a theme
0:55:59that was both like a recognizable star
0:56:02trek but not simply a restatement of the
0:56:04original song and that you know that
0:56:05segues into it in the end is your little
0:56:07reward and they just continue that in a
0:56:09competent manner in this movie i think
0:56:11is a reasonable achievement and it may
0:56:13be too much to ask for him to like me to
0:56:15do throw another amazing song in their
0:56:18out of nowhere most star trek movie
0:56:20scores have found a you know their take
0:56:23on a Star Trek theme and then when
0:56:25they've done other Star Trek movies they
0:56:27use that again that was true with with
0:56:30your Goldsmith and was true with James
0:56:31Horner and and you know that's sort of
0:56:34been how they do it
0:56:35yes so some nice work but overall maybe
0:56:37not that it does a great supporting job
0:56:39yeah I like the I like a Star Trek theme
0:56:41a lot like oh yeah i agree we're here is
0:56:43the best part of it
0:56:44yeah I i love how his Star Trek theme
0:56:47weaves in and out of the original theme
0:56:49yes and it I mean it just fits and I
0:56:53liked hearing that here too
0:56:55I and again i might think the original
0:56:58film had a better score but i just love
0:57:04how they weave in and out of each other
0:57:05yeah i mean pic yeah I was a big demand
0:57:07yeah I mentioned uh that this i think a
0:57:11proposal absolute two or three whatever
0:57:13the one we did with Ben was own moves
0:57:15that movie scores that actually Star
0:57:18Trek the motion picture
0:57:19despite being kind of a terrible
0:57:20invisible movie The Times has a
0:57:22fantastic sore because it's your goals
0:57:23with who is too is a master and this to
0:57:26me if you put these two things exchequer
0:57:28I'd say well i really like to quino's
0:57:29theme but a goldsmith i would have to
0:57:31give props and just like every every
0:57:33piece on that works so well even if you
0:57:37don't care about the movie like you can
0:57:39I listen to that score sometimes and of
0:57:41itself and i haven't seen the Star Trek
0:57:42the motion picture and 15 20 years and I
0:57:46still know i can still evocative and it
0:57:48still works the problem of the Goldsmith
0:57:49stuff is that is that he scored star
0:57:52trek one and struck five right and so
0:57:54there's good music and bad movies and
0:57:57then made and then it was the next
0:57:58generation theme which means it's sort
0:58:00of like marked for all time as being the
0:58:02starter
0:58:02the next generation theme so that they
0:58:04couldn't they couldn't reference that in
0:58:06a movie like this because it's you know
0:58:08it was taken away and it's fine to
0:58:11canvas again his theme is is excellent i
0:58:13really like it it's very catchy it does
0:58:15a great job of setting the scene and the
0:58:17tone and is very distinct and I think
0:58:20David was saying making a point
0:58:21it's it's clearly a star trek the more
0:58:24clearly a theme that has like a modules
0:58:26to the past but is is is appropriate for
0:58:29this different universe and timeline
0:58:33that we're in a little more Marshall
0:58:35it's got a little more of a march going
0:58:36on you know there's there's a little
0:58:38more adventure element to it rather than
0:58:40being sort of sixties and sci-fi right
0:58:42now and then it's also got that mournful
0:58:44element because it's you know it's like
0:58:46I think the first time you start to hear
0:58:48is when Kirk's father dies and then it's
0:58:51the opening of the original one arm as
0:58:55it it's just lovely
0:58:56one of the things I really like about
0:58:58gia quino's scores for this and for the
0:59:01mission impossible 3 and 4 guess it's
0:59:04not really called for Ghost Protocol
0:59:07whatever is that they they pay really
0:59:11nice homage to the original themes and
0:59:15the original styles and again they're
0:59:18there maybe not cohesive scores that you
0:59:20would just listen to on their own but
0:59:23the different elements are really nice
0:59:24and they fit and yeah they just sort of
0:59:28fit these different elements of the
0:59:30story especially mission impossible i
0:59:32think those actually might be better
0:59:34scores than the the track ones
0:59:37hello again this i love the trek theme
0:59:39better than anything in the Mission
0:59:42Impossible movies there's a difference i
0:59:44think with a difference in when you with
0:59:46this type of movie they were talking
0:59:47about where the music is underneath the
0:59:50action and goes along with it and
0:59:52there's a switch that happens when
0:59:54the movie changes from like an action
0:59:57scene that is scored with music to be
0:59:57scene that is scored with music to be
1:00:00II a music video for an awesome song way
1:00:03that that switch happens when it's like
1:00:05an iconic theme or when you picture like
1:00:08it's almost as if the movie was
1:00:10choreographed to music like the music
1:00:12came first and runners made a bunch of
1:00:13spaceships that did the others in
1:00:14certain scenes you know have that I'm
1:00:17just talk about Luke Skywalker you know
1:00:19dual sons seen or whatever that is like
1:00:21it
1:00:22shooting a music video for that for that
1:00:24you know swelling movement in this thing
1:00:26right or even if it's just something as
1:00:28simple as like that the music we can all
1:00:30hear when when Lucas aiming a photon
1:00:32torpedo haha haha I'm revoking your star
1:00:37wars cut
1:00:37yeah I have a crossing the stream better
1:00:39know it into the exhaust port like we
1:00:41can all hear that you know and or any of
1:00:44these things work and I another example
1:00:46is not from science fiction is like the
1:00:47movie Goodfellas where it is it took
1:00:49extensive use of pop culture songs that
1:00:51we know and they're so dominant in our
1:00:54minds that again the movie becomes let's
1:00:56just have some video to go along with
1:00:58this great song and like make it all
1:00:59work together and it's not a crime for
1:01:01that not to happen but I mean I think it
1:01:03was almost a conscious choice not to do
1:01:04that and I think back to you again be
1:01:06the word list Mickey bring blowing up
1:01:08scenes which were not just scored in a
1:01:11more subdued kind of like the way you
1:01:14might do a drama or or something but
1:01:16also like shot they were more dark and
1:01:19depressing as England right whatever but
1:01:21Randy and overcast then and kind of like
1:01:24different like when is the last time you
1:01:26saw some ice a science-fiction movie or
1:01:29a star trek for your particular really
1:01:30commit to a mood like that like three
1:01:32scenes in Iran mean I was president has
1:01:33there been a star trek movie that has
1:01:35been that dark in that segment both
1:01:36literally and like you know figuratively
1:01:39and emotionally I I when I think back to
1:01:42all the Star Trek movies I think of when
1:01:43they're around the campfire in Yosemite
1:01:45and start 45 that's yeah that's right
1:01:47that's that's a dark moment for other
1:01:48reasons its grip
1:01:50I don't know about dark yeah deep space
1:01:51nine is not a movie but it's pretty
1:01:53disturbing but it's regarding the movie
1:01:55in the movie franchises it's it's a butt
1:01:57shot like a TV sets and yeah maybe
1:01:59something in first contest yeah when the
1:02:01card is upsetting he breaks his little
1:02:03ships Marianne dark yet the mind must be
1:02:06drawn here
1:02:07yeah okay back to the back to the movie
1:02:10here
1:02:11contact john harrison sorry i was hired
1:02:16Harris uh attacks the the meeting event
1:02:20is being held where they have everybody
1:02:21which is apparently a godfather three
1:02:25yeah Carol you're gonna reference a
1:02:27Godfather movie don't make up of three
1:02:29all the five ships are there and pike
1:02:35dies which is very sad and Kirk is very
1:02:37clever and sort of makes cons little
1:02:40shuttle sorry carrison Harrison's little
1:02:42shuttle blow up we should we should talk
1:02:44about the lacs security on Starfleet
1:02:48headquarters and thursday and wartime
1:02:52and its archives and that's so good
1:02:54well he's got a he's got clearance
1:02:56obviously but he's he's out there
1:02:58shooting stuff for a long time and
1:03:00nobody nothin nobody knows by now
1:03:03there's a couple guys rifles right who
1:03:05get your please be sure we have no
1:03:07weapons
1:03:08that's right i have lots of weapons that
1:03:10are so my next note is actually about
1:03:15the about the torpedoes that Scotty
1:03:18doesn't want to have the torpedoes on
1:03:20the ship and he quits and then Spock
1:03:22argue very strongly against the the
1:03:24drone strikes against Harrison on on on
1:03:29Chronos the Klingon homeworld which they
1:03:31misspelled by the way
1:03:32well that's the human spelling humans
1:03:35it's translates transliterated you don't
1:03:38know Klingon yet they haven't learned it
1:03:39yet except for oh noes lordosis that's
1:03:42it you which is funny because it started
1:03:44in Star Trek six were shining and she
1:03:46Klingon but yes when I saw this in 3d i
1:03:49noticed that the lens flares are also in
1:03:513d and its really doesn't make any sense
1:03:53and it's very weird
1:03:54okay I don't mind the lens flares in 2d
1:03:56and 3d I don't see why they're there
1:03:59it's very bad again I mentioned uh
1:04:02there's that great scene on the bridge
1:04:04where McCoy is repeating metaphorically
1:04:07sort of given before and Curtis had
1:04:09mouth and orders him to stop having
1:04:10metaphors which I i made me laugh so the
1:04:15Klingons we should talk about that we
1:04:17have we have what i would say is maybe
1:04:18the most unnecessary action sequence in
1:04:21the movie which is the the spaceship
1:04:23chase on the Klingon
1:04:25planet where they go through the narrow
1:04:27space and will fit will fit that's very
1:04:29it's very Star Wars actually sits yeah
1:04:31just wanting talking straight out Empire
1:04:34yeah but not as well because I don't
1:04:36know it advances any of the characters
1:04:38to be in that scene like yeah it's the
1:04:40only thing is that was under descent
1:04:42they have good dialogue but then in the
1:04:44action sequence there's kind of nothing
1:04:45and they just trying to let off a couple
1:04:47of zingers but like you not to give an
1:04:50example from Star Wars like wen Han
1:04:52Solo's being chased around by the Empire
1:04:53and going through all the asteroids and
1:04:55everything what's at stake is his like
1:04:58he's trying to impress a girl basically
1:05:00like he doesn't want to look like he's
1:05:02the guy who screwed up and like you know
1:05:04it's he feels pressure to successfully
1:05:07escaped for reasons that have nothing to
1:05:08do with his life and like that that's
1:05:10the subtext of that whole chase sequence
1:05:12or subtext this one is like he's going
1:05:14down on the planet where something's
1:05:15gonna happen with a guy I gotta get down
1:05:17there any and in between this chase
1:05:18scene takes place
1:05:19yeah it didn't it didn't really work
1:05:21also i don't really understand there's
1:05:22this whole thing about it's a it's a an
1:05:24empty part of the planet where there was
1:05:26a disaster and the moon is kind of blown
1:05:28up which is I guess the star trek six
1:05:30reference to inconvenience but just
1:05:31really make much sense it's never
1:05:33explained why have they abandoned why
1:05:35the Klingons abandoned part of their
1:05:36planets value if the moon is crashing
1:05:38into your city you'll probably been like
1:05:41yeah but every three days it resets the
1:05:43right when you come between remuneration
1:05:46photo city doesn't push this and I I
1:05:49question Klingon architecture of
1:05:51architecture
1:05:52yeah the city is where he's he's the
1:05:55ship is going through these things it
1:05:57doesn't it I found it very confusing
1:05:59yeah ya think
1:06:01although i did i do like the the look of
1:06:04the Klingon bird-of-prey are or whatever
1:06:06they are they're little flyer a little
1:06:08security flyer things but they've got
1:06:10that they've got that sent burp redesign
1:06:12yeah and then and so then they end up
1:06:14down on the planet and her goes out and
1:06:16I think it's a nice scene where Kirk
1:06:18although he does a little late is get up
1:06:20the guns was like okay she's gonna go
1:06:22talk to them here your guns from a butt
1:06:27and then there's a fire fight because
1:06:29Klingons are warlike and they don't like
1:06:30to listen to people and and harrison job
1:06:33shoots him up and kills them all and
1:06:35then add as a thank you
1:06:38Curtis I he's going to give him lots of
1:06:39punches yeah that makes sense and i
1:06:41actually thought this was not only you
1:06:43know obviously showing that he is a
1:06:44Superman he's got these amazing
1:06:46abilities because he liked the jumps
1:06:48like 15 feet at one point she kills all
1:06:50the Klingons and that better than one
1:06:52Kurt punches him
1:06:53it has no effect and I wrote down on my
1:06:56little notepad revenge punches do no
1:06:58good
1:06:59revenge is pointless this is an
1:07:01important lesson for Captain Kirk to
1:07:02learn don't punch revenge bunches
1:07:05ineffective also convery powerful
1:07:08although if that was a regular guy those
1:07:10punches would have been effective
1:07:12yes if if he had just placed his fingers
1:07:14together perhaps maybe and used it both
1:07:17his hands I think that a little bit more
1:07:19fiber pistol-whipping with the phaser i
1:07:22did like seeing the batlets in battle
1:07:24oh yeah that was nice touch ok so they
1:07:27take they take John Harrison yes back to
1:07:30the enterprise and put him in the brig
1:07:32and which is kind of a neat it's kind of
1:07:35a neat set and there's like the little
1:07:37hole that you can move around that way
1:07:39hasn't seen his arm through which is
1:07:41kind of future ii and he's he's very
1:07:43Hannibal Lecter e in that scene to you
1:07:45know he's standing tall and marching
1:07:47around and he's like behind bars and yet
1:07:49you're still really terrified of him
1:07:51he's he's definitely a caged animal
1:07:53which I liked
1:07:55it's pretty bad assignment forever has
1:07:56to sit in that little desk in the Brig
1:07:59well just write yeah that ignore
1:08:01everything that's happening
1:08:02yeah like the guy and then the alien
1:08:04who's got the funny head and they just
1:08:06they're just gonna sit there and just
1:08:08just wait just something that you guys
1:08:11in here yeah yeah that's scary guy might
1:08:14break out so don't don't let him do that
1:08:16we meet I guess we did this earlier but
1:08:21the this is where Carol Marcus becomes
1:08:23more important cocks and and this is
1:08:25another one of my again if I'm going to
1:08:27live i love this movie but i'm going to
1:08:29list one of my problems with it i don't
1:08:30see the point of Carol Marcus in this
1:08:32movie she comes on under assumed name
1:08:34because she wants to find out what her
1:08:35dad is doing ok and but she doesn't
1:08:40what does she do in this movie is she's
1:08:42upon at one point in the end game
1:08:44yeah but it's not necessary I I felt
1:08:46like she was not a necessary character
1:08:48while she is necessary for carbon
1:08:50eventually but not
1:08:51this movie she made a spot jealous she's
1:08:54she's there for the underwear so that
1:08:56seemed doesn't make any sense let me let
1:08:58me ask if you guys can explain this to
1:09:00me she and Kirk like go to a
1:09:01shuttlecraft that doesn't go anywhere
1:09:03and she tells him to not turn around and
1:09:05she said she'd like takes off her
1:09:07clothes and it's just in her underwear
1:09:08and then and then they go back to the
1:09:11bridge
1:09:11it doesn't I it doesn't make any sense
1:09:13are both i think i was his name
1:09:15Lindelof didn't authorize already
1:09:18apologized as as well he should I think
1:09:20that's progress progress will eventually
1:09:22be not having seems like that but the
1:09:24intermediate step is having the scene
1:09:26like that and then feeling embarrassed
1:09:27about it and making a public statement
1:09:28that you apologized for later and the
1:09:30best you could say for it is that at
1:09:31least it was brief
1:09:32I have no problem with the cat girls
1:09:34because they're in there naked and he's
1:09:36naked and they're enjoying themselves
1:09:37and good for them but this is like why
1:09:40there's no reason for it now it's
1:09:43embarrassing
1:09:44I can cut that out of the blu-ray
1:09:46release yeah the Phantom at it will take
1:09:48care of that it headed into darkness
1:09:51whatever that is so we end up i'm
1:09:55skipping some stuff because you know it
1:09:56was dark and I didn't want to write a
1:09:58lot I i wanted to talk about the the the
1:10:01Vengeance i think it is the u.s. fringes
1:10:05yeah Admiral Marcus ship which Scotty
1:10:07goes and finds they call i am using seen
1:10:09again worker call Scotty and Scotty's in
1:10:12downtown san francisco at a at a club
1:10:15Bob you know with with his little buddy
1:10:17cancer and he gets a call and once his
1:10:19help and and of course he does it and he
1:10:21ends up finding that that over and
1:10:23Jupiter behind the moon at Jupiter
1:10:26they're building this giant warship I do
1:10:31like the contrast thats painted a few
1:10:33points in the movie of that the
1:10:35enterprise is not even though it gets in
1:10:38big battles in these big action movies
1:10:40it's not it's an explorer ship we see it
1:10:42saving trying to save aliens on a
1:10:45far-off planet at the beginning it's not
1:10:47lower ship it can be a submarine but
1:10:49it's it's not a warship it's for
1:10:51exploration like die hard against the
1:10:52bruce willis of this movie is a crappy
1:10:54as all the time right but but it's not
1:10:56meant to just be a weapon of of death
1:10:59it's supposed to be annexed exploration
1:11:00vehicle and that's what Scotty says when
1:11:02he quits and and here is
1:11:05the warship right this is the the
1:11:08personification or what ship ification
1:11:10of of what the enterprise isn't so you
1:11:14know and and so I liked that contrast
1:11:16also star trek 3 Scott reference here
1:11:20which is in star trek 3 Scotty sabotages
1:11:23the big fancy ship to save the
1:11:25enterprise and here Scotty sabotages the
1:11:27big fancy ship again he's got he's
1:11:29really gonna break it didn't have a
1:11:31triple their food celsior yeah so this
1:11:33is like that yeah Scotty it don't get on
1:11:35skype his bad side
1:11:37Scotty will break Scott Scotty's a
1:11:39badass alright i will sneak onto your
1:11:41ship and brakes and brake it to someone
1:11:43it i like the Excelsior though I was
1:11:46gonna be out of our guys that was pretty
1:11:48cool
1:11:49there's a moment and in this movie
1:11:50there's more schools like hey the chair
1:11:52it's actually pretty nice so yeah
1:11:53another wait for you you'll get there by
1:11:55like it's got more shadowing I like this
1:11:57scotty broke broke those ships and
1:12:00although i know there's a line of
1:12:01dialogue where they say that that uh the
1:12:03Vengeance is supposed to be run by
1:12:05minimal crew but it's like a really big
1:12:07ship and Scotty Scotty appears to be
1:12:10able to walk for hours and never see
1:12:13anybody
1:12:15it's true he's not there's no jeopardy
1:12:17he's not like duckin behind and and the
1:12:20guys are walking down a quarter and he's
1:12:21crossing he's literally like do to do to
1:12:23do walking through vast stretches of
1:12:26Starship and there's nobody there which
1:12:28seemed it just seemed that very dramatic
1:12:30to be I feel like it i always wonder all
1:12:33the people are doing on the enterprise
1:12:34but it seems like the only people who
1:12:36are important like the people on the
1:12:37bridge you flown by 1i sickbay
1:12:39yeah and a couple guys in engineering
1:12:41even an engineering like what are all
1:12:42the other non Scotty people doing
1:12:43besides dying tragically occasionally
1:12:45they're just taking up oxygen arrested
1:12:47sure Scully doesn't sabotage the ship
1:12:49yeah right actually accidentally it's
1:12:51all about job security i mean look at
1:12:53look at a hard time to check off at with
1:12:55taking over for Scotty right like he's
1:12:56got that straight off arranged in the
1:12:58way he likes it
1:12:59put on Richards kind of an odd fake too
1:13:02I would imagine someone who's like a
1:13:03check off you've been shadowing Scotty
1:13:05for a while take over this war traffic
1:13:08if seem like an odd choice on Kirk's
1:13:10part
1:13:11how'd you like to be the long-serving
1:13:13second-in-command of the engineering
1:13:15deck to be told that the the
1:13:17the 18 year old kid was going to be your
1:13:19boss instead of you Jason russian kid
1:13:21he's taking off his genius he's out that
1:13:24it's that Kirk he's always going to
1:13:25promote the bridge people over over
1:13:28everything else
1:13:29myopic yeah so they're they're so we
1:13:32there's another interesting action
1:13:35sequence it's kind of a replay of the
1:13:36first movie where they get in little
1:13:38suits and zip around and in the debris
1:13:41fields between the two ships
1:13:43yes you know it's not a bad scene
1:13:47although I i'm not sure it isn't kind of
1:13:49superfluous it is JJ likes that likes
1:13:52those suits he likes traveling really
1:13:54fast enough but what I like about this
1:13:55part of the movie and it goes back to
1:13:57that thing about one of the themes of
1:13:59this movie being a question of its not a
1:14:03purely polar kind of there's a good guy
1:14:04and a bad guy part right well there's a
1:14:06great turn in this movie where they take
1:14:08on out of the brig ma ma and they take
1:14:11him to sick bay and draws blood that
1:14:12might be important later mom and and
1:14:16then you know there's a moment where
1:14:18they realize what Marcus is doing and
1:14:20all of a sudden the logical thing to do
1:14:22is to work with Khan and i love that
1:14:26moment i love the fact that we're in a
1:14:28position now we're working with this guy
1:14:30who we know is the bad guy the movie
1:14:32there's another bad guy in this movie
1:14:35too and I i love that there's this whole
1:14:39action scene where khan and Kirk are
1:14:41trying to help each other survive and
1:14:42get to the other ship and then of course
1:14:45it turns back on that ship nice i think
1:14:47we're helping him but i love the fact
1:14:49that this movie is all my going into it
1:14:52with I you know I had these expectations
1:14:54of its all about that Cumberbatch is the
1:14:56bad guy and then in the middle of the
1:14:57movie all of a sudden you're like wait a
1:14:59second what if he's not really the worst
1:15:03guy in this movie are we supposed to
1:15:05play will change Jason well no II mean
1:15:08he's still a bad guy but he's necessary
1:15:11he's got for the good like I mean we got
1:15:13the same problem that we have with with
1:15:15Marcus which is that his intentions or
1:15:18at least the intentions that he presents
1:15:20are domestically moral right like he
1:15:24wants to save his friends who are have
1:15:26all been like frozen in carbonite
1:15:27granted him
1:15:29carbonite oh yeah i'll type i close
1:15:33enough but i mean granted once they get
1:15:36out of their torpedoes they might try to
1:15:38take another billion galaxies button
1:15:40every right now we're talking about you
1:15:42know it's still nice
1:15:43he wants to help his friends writing in
1:15:45that that's what resonates that's how he
1:15:47gets curtright what would you do for
1:15:48your family is you know he's realized
1:15:52exactly where to get coordinated but
1:15:53there's clearly a part of that is not
1:15:55just if he was really just a bad guy he
1:15:59would let all of those people died right
1:16:02and just try to like take over the world
1:16:03by himself but he's not he's actually
1:16:07seems to have some investment in those
1:16:10people and that gives him a redemptive
1:16:12quality which makes him more interesting
1:16:16as a villain or antagonist if you want
1:16:19to use that word i thought that was a
1:16:21good kirk moment when you know
1:16:23Cumberbatch's making his pitch to like
1:16:25you know we should work together or
1:16:27trust me or let me explain the situation
1:16:28and I guess it was a jerk and bones and
1:16:30they both turn away from him and walked
1:16:32past the camera and Kirk says you know
1:16:34know maybe we should like think about it
1:16:36shows like Kirk head come back from his
1:16:39just being mad want to punch the guy in
1:16:40the face to being the sort of canny
1:16:42savvy Kirk right always looking at the
1:16:45situation and trying to figure things
1:16:46out and isn't it completely willing to
1:16:48turn on a dime and say he makes a good
1:16:51case we should really think about this
1:16:52and then bones like all your crazy
1:16:54weekend you know trust this guy so that
1:16:55that was a good kirk moment that skirt
1:16:57can no longer focused on vengeance and
1:16:59thinking and thinking about it more
1:17:00clearly and knowing how dangerous con is
1:17:02but realizing that this situation has
1:17:06gotten a lot more complicated know maybe
1:17:07he thought it was and yeah it's it is
1:17:10good and and you know because like are
1:17:12you out of your mama humans
1:17:14he's like well you know i'm gonna i'm
1:17:15gonna listen to him and but from cons
1:17:17perspective he says you know despite you
1:17:20trying to punch me and stuff you know
1:17:23the reason the basically the reason he
1:17:25lets them live is he sees something in
1:17:29querque or at least he says that right
1:17:31that you're not like Marcus you've got a
1:17:33little more sense and part of that is
1:17:35yes I can use you but part of that is I
1:17:37can trust that you are going to behave
1:17:39in a in a
1:17:41a more rational way then that other guy
1:17:43and that's interesting to the fact that
1:17:45Kanye got you Jason to believe like that
1:17:48well maybe he's gonna be kind of shows
1:17:50like that's because he well I i didn't
1:17:52believe that he was gonna be kind of
1:17:53good i believe that at that point in the
1:17:54film he was less of a threat to me then
1:17:58Admiral Marcus was like and I was
1:18:00delighted by that way said Khan is not
1:18:02the biggest threat in the movie right
1:18:04now
1:18:04well I mean he really wasn't like it's
1:18:06good like he belongs to you he's not the
1:18:08immediate his superior intellect is on
1:18:10display is he is able to play them like
1:18:12you know a musical instrument to get
1:18:14essentially what he wants until his IQ
1:18:17suddenly drops in the last thing but you
1:18:18know right that but they're there are
1:18:20their interests are aligned and that was
1:18:22interesting that in a in a world of if
1:18:25it's just a black-and-white kind of
1:18:26moral world he's the bad guy and so he's
1:18:29the bad guy but in this moment he's not
1:18:31he his interests and Kirk's interests
1:18:34are aligned which is they have the
1:18:35problem of this other ship and they need
1:18:37to do something about it and that i did
1:18:40that's what tickled me is that you know
1:18:42it wasn't he was he's a bad guy and he's
1:18:44gonna do very bad things but at this
1:18:46moment we actually need him and he needs
1:18:48us
1:18:49that's a traditional sort of you know
1:18:50it's a trope in some ways right like you
1:18:52know Superman needs lex luthor's help do
1:18:55something or you know what I mean this
1:18:57is a real it's a thing that we see over
1:18:58and over in television and comic books
1:19:00and all that is there's a time when the
1:19:02villain needs to team up with the good
1:19:04guys in order to fight a larger threat
1:19:06well and I know it's a UH the
1:19:08screenwriter said it's the they feature
1:19:10they like to have kind of a Hong Kong
1:19:12action movie where in that attacked you
1:19:14have the two guys who have been pitted
1:19:15against each other was suddenly there's
1:19:16a larger threat that they have a give
1:19:19you a good American example LA
1:19:20confidential sure yet another another
1:19:22perfect example of these two guys who
1:19:24are at odds for like an entire movie at
1:19:25the end realized and maybe we actually
1:19:27have more in common than we think about
1:19:28but yet and knowing that it's Captain
1:19:30Kirk and con I think makes it that much
1:19:33better right because it's like those two
1:19:35guys are going to work together
1:19:36alright well I i like them and thus
1:19:38began an odd couple
1:19:40haha that's right he's a mess and he
1:19:43wants to take over the galaxy with his
1:19:45superior intellect didn't together
1:19:49don't that a bit okay and that are
1:19:52mostly superfluous action scene where
1:19:54they're flying through space and their
1:19:55spacesuits and everything that's a
1:19:57that's an example like that scene would
1:20:00have been as pointless as the spaceship
1:20:02scene but they did add one part that
1:20:04actually related back to the story arc
1:20:06and the characters which is that a
1:20:07certain point they make it they make you
1:20:09wonder whether I Kirk has been abandoned
1:20:12bike on which would fit with Khan you
1:20:14know having tricked you into letting him
1:20:16off the ship is now just going to go on
1:20:17his own use maybe nobody comes back and
1:20:19saves Kirk which makes you really
1:20:20question whether he really is you know
1:20:22as some intent not that I'm saying that
1:20:24justifies the entire scene but at the
1:20:25very least there was something that
1:20:27happened there sub taxes that had to do
1:20:29with like okay advancing the story and
1:20:31you know going whatever mostly it was
1:20:33like a fly through space and I think it
1:20:35was kind of cool looking but it was cool
1:20:36yeah yeah I I think that just it just
1:20:39decided enough for me i did not mind at
1:20:42all I wouldn't have lost that seemed
1:20:43before the scene where they're flying
1:20:45around on the Klingon homeworld great
1:20:48that was a less interesting to see where
1:20:49the scene work
1:20:50Carol Marcus just taking off her clothes
1:20:52for no reason also Scotty gets to suck i
1:20:54have the airlock that rather that is
1:20:56good and that's why he's a he waits to
1:20:59hit the button because he's gotta time
1:21:00it right
1:21:01well that was nice so what are we left
1:21:03with we're left with uh the i would say
1:21:07based on the feedback I've gotten over
1:21:09the last few weeks of the most
1:21:11controversial thing for some people in
1:21:12the movie which is this movie decides to
1:21:15spend you know III a bunch of people
1:21:19have said to me well it's just kind of a
1:21:21remake of traffic on which is totally
1:21:22isn't it's completely different plot
1:21:23there is a 15-minute period where they
1:21:26play the effects of the the end of the
1:21:30wrath of khan and they and they reverse
1:21:33it and Kirk makes the decision to
1:21:34sacrifice himself to get the engine's
1:21:36going so that the ship doesn't crash
1:21:38into the into the ocean and I i heard
1:21:43people say well that's very unoriginal
1:21:44wear for me it's like well I for me it's
1:21:47an homage it's a reference its dramatic
1:21:49but at the same time it's fascinating
1:21:51about how it plays out in the opposite
1:21:53direction
1:21:54I thought it was funny the wrath of khan
1:21:55is one of my favorite movies of all time
1:21:57and when i watch this I didn't think all
1:21:59again is nothing sacred
1:22:01they should they shouldn't
1:22:02brought over that ground instead I
1:22:04watched and I was like oh this is so
1:22:05great they are they are taking the wrath
1:22:07of khan and then they're doing they're
1:22:09spinning it and they're changing it and
1:22:10they're doing some different stuff with
1:22:11it in the context of this movie and it's
1:22:13only like 10 or 15 minutes where it
1:22:16lines up and otherwise it's a very
1:22:18different movie i'm curious what you
1:22:19guys all thought of that it got me and I
1:22:21i think i got really wrapped up in the
1:22:23movie at this point i was really
1:22:24interested i guess i was invested
1:22:26because I had a moment where you know
1:22:28you they Telegraph ok
1:22:30the engines there's the glass door right
1:22:33where the radiation sign on it and my
1:22:35first thought was well put Spock's up on
1:22:37the bridge they're never going to get
1:22:38him down here in time like that's going
1:22:40to be super convoluted if they have to
1:22:41get him down here so we can fix this and
1:22:43died and then i had that like you know
1:22:45oh wait no they're gonna do the opposite
1:22:47they're gonna have Kirko in which I
1:22:48thought huh well that's interesting
1:22:51because they had done there was so much
1:22:53speculation because they had that scene
1:22:55that shot in the trailer right but no
1:22:58but they didn't because it's miss
1:23:00direction it's like that's what that for
1:23:02me that was working on mine said you
1:23:03were in i would have preferred not to
1:23:05have seen that part of the I was ok I
1:23:07was ok with it because it it it got me
1:23:09thinking of okay clearly there's
1:23:11something in here that is a no Maj to
1:23:13star trek to but it didn't it never
1:23:15occurred to me that maybe because I'm
1:23:16maybe I'm dumb
1:23:17maybe but he never never occurred to me
1:23:19a million years that they would go in
1:23:20the other direction and again you know
1:23:24Jason points out that the the sacrifice
1:23:26the mirror and obviously this is an
1:23:28obvious you know a part of that and the
1:23:31major part of that in this movie is Kirk
1:23:33literally sacrificing himself to save
1:23:35everybody and I was so wrapped up in it
1:23:39in fact that i usually I'm pretty good
1:23:41at catching plot points when they
1:23:43foreshadow things like but i really had
1:23:45a moment of huh
1:23:47they're really gonna kill Kirk huh like
1:23:49well make the next movie really think
1:23:51we'd maybe this is what had that's fine
1:23:54but and I'm not a unitary JJ Abrams is
1:23:57also not a guy who tries away from
1:23:59killing Kim major characters but I and I
1:24:02just I had forgotten all about despite
1:24:05the fact in retrospect I look back and
1:24:06like there's that one scene that's
1:24:08really really it's kind of awkwardly
1:24:10painful with the bones what you doing
1:24:12with that with good cosplay triple yeah
1:24:14well why do you have that
1:24:16had trouble on your desk I'm injecting
1:24:17and bring it back to life
1:24:19that's that that's the moment I was
1:24:21called back to the what it's wayne's
1:24:23world where there's that line of like uh
1:24:25he told us his entire itinerary it
1:24:27seemed extraneous at the time and and
1:24:30this is that moment where the second
1:24:31time i watched like he's literally in
1:24:33this totally taught scene with Khan
1:24:37right and then inequitable FTW let me
1:24:40just look suppose this is what's the
1:24:41deal with the trouble is like what this
1:24:44is this is how we do science of the
1:24:46enterprise I just reject random things
1:24:48instead triple its badly executed
1:24:50because it's it bugs me because it shows
1:24:54a lack of credit being given to the
1:24:56audience because we saw con take his
1:24:59blood out tops on Mickey Smith from
1:25:02Doctor Who put it in his daughters thing
1:25:03his daughter gets better we get it right
1:25:06we don't need to see the triple thing
1:25:07right right
1:25:08it smacks of a studio note like mad
1:25:11people really going to know that people
1:25:13you know are it's really going to be
1:25:14smart enough they want to fit the
1:25:16triples and it's like everyone's
1:25:17troubles we gotta put them in somewhere
1:25:19but we saw McCoy inject the blood into
1:25:20the triple as like a test that we didn't
1:25:23need the what are you doing with the
1:25:24triple well I that's that's what strikes
1:25:27me as odd about it was that it felt so
1:25:29blatant it was too and it seems like
1:25:31something that was tacked on later right
1:25:33you know and so you could cut that and
1:25:35you know i mean there are numerous plot
1:25:37holes then like as i was talking to
1:25:39occasional and comfortable panels Tony
1:25:41sindelar about this the other day but
1:25:43he's like I mean you got like 70 other
1:25:45guys on board with blood like try to get
1:25:47like borrow blood for them they're all
1:25:49frozen there yet but they take a guy out
1:25:51of the tube to procure can do anything
1:25:52on a farm and then and there are no
1:25:54microwave person i'm sure they would
1:25:56have tried that if they didn't get the
1:25:58con blood but they gotta cut get on
1:26:00what's available
1:26:01he's right and they also point out that
1:26:02they can't kill him it's like i'm pretty
1:26:03sure you can get blood out of him he's
1:26:05dead phone strike all the bloody yeah
1:26:08that's true it's it's it's true
1:26:11turns out this car but makes a great
1:26:13cockpit so I a couple of comments from
1:26:17some of our our star trek doubters in
1:26:19the in the chat room which is which is
1:26:20great which is a they're saying they
1:26:23didn't like Kirk sacrificing himself
1:26:25because they felt it was empty and what
1:26:27i would say that is correct things he
1:26:29said
1:26:29fighting himself we know if we're smart
1:26:31that he's not but the point is that the
1:26:33character is making that decision it is
1:26:36it is interesting to see the
1:26:37ramifications of that also my kids
1:26:39thought he was going to die
1:26:41my kids were very upset of that boo
1:26:43because they didn't realize what was
1:26:44going to happen and in the end you know
1:26:47I think that's in any franchise movie
1:26:51with a strong protagonist I'm not gonna
1:26:53kill him
1:26:54I mean I'm sorry they're never gonna
1:26:55kill him so really you know the point is
1:26:58that the character makes that decision
1:26:59not that the audience is thinking oh my
1:27:02god kevin Brooks and i right now because
1:27:04I mean I I wondered if they'd kill check
1:27:06off maybe but I doesn't like a big
1:27:08scaffolding fell on
1:27:09okay well and it's not i mean the issue
1:27:13is Kirk doesn't go in thinking it's ok
1:27:15if I die in there they can just inject
1:27:17that one and I'll be fine i'll be
1:27:19resurrected you know you know speaking
1:27:21speaking of that sacrificing even though
1:27:24I saw it coming and knew how they were
1:27:25going to revive him the one thing that
1:27:27sold it to me was like well two things
1:27:31what one if you're a super star trek fan
1:27:33and it's annoying you I try to get into
1:27:34the mindset by thinking about how I
1:27:36would've felt if like Luke told later
1:27:38that he was his father you know thank
1:27:40you for reading was not so clever it's a
1:27:42role reversal aren't you getting guys
1:27:43but that would be nonsensical just make
1:27:45some sense in the thing that sold it to
1:27:47me is that after this play out exactly
1:27:49how I thought it would and I was
1:27:51slightly annoyed about seeing in the
1:27:52trailer spot yelling con at the end of
1:27:55it for whatever reason ice that didn't
1:27:57think that would happen and that sold it
1:27:59for me because i would expect if the
1:28:00roles were reversed that surely Spock's
1:28:03reaction would be more subdued the Turks
1:28:07and instead they went the other
1:28:08direction where I think it was more
1:28:09over-the-top then maybe it's just the
1:28:11framing and then the scoring and and
1:28:14that fits with the new Spock who really
1:28:16was sold especially in the first movie
1:28:18is just this tortured soul was really
1:28:20trying to keep it together here who
1:28:21really does feel more deeply than humans
1:28:24do and but can't control it like it four
1:28:25hundred percent of all can you can and
1:28:27once he yelled that out a sauce on the
1:28:29chat room yelling about that saying how
1:28:31is like Vader's know it's so far from
1:28:33that that that outburst fit with his
1:28:36character and sold me that sequence and
1:28:38I said okay now i buy it you can bring
1:28:40it back now I like to think of this is
1:28:42he boosts
1:28:42yeah he's very i know i know i like that
1:28:46it gave me gave me a little bit
1:28:47goosebump I don't know it works for me i
1:28:49agree with John he's a good Yeller
1:28:51I thought it was a little bit silly well
1:28:53the original conscripts with that silly
1:28:54but it's true everything we also risk
1:28:56mythologizing the Old star trek and
1:28:59saying this new thing doesn't live up to
1:29:01it when nothing that would necessarily
1:29:03live up to the to the class i mean that
1:29:05these characters and these actors don't
1:29:07have the same history that the the
1:29:11original characters did right so it's
1:29:12not going to have the same impact but
1:29:15that's fine i think it's clever and it's
1:29:16a clever reworking of something that's
1:29:19familiar and it was fun to see and it
1:29:21made sense in the context of the movie
1:29:23and people just need to chill out
1:29:25yeah comment down people yeah
1:29:29get a life that you missed that one more
1:29:32slightly unnecessary action scene where
1:29:33they're jumping on top of like red
1:29:35garbage trucks since in is floating
1:29:38garbage trucks and sparkles chasing
1:29:39conducts that's after I was that later
1:29:42with it like that I felt like we don't
1:29:44need you to jump from vehicles that we
1:29:47don't understand other vehicles that we
1:29:48don't understand point each other the
1:29:49scene could take place in a more
1:29:50compressed yeah manner
1:29:52yeah was it was also the unnecessarily
1:29:55complex thing sort of like at the end of
1:29:58the first movie where where they're
1:30:00jumping around on the different
1:30:01platforms and stuff where it's like
1:30:02really is this in the future in San
1:30:04Francisco is this how we're going to
1:30:05deal with garbage or moving Freight I'm
1:30:07was the all you needed was a soundstage
1:30:09the paper mache rocks
1:30:10yeah exactly exactly so there's a fight
1:30:13and a hora beams down and they based
1:30:17uncon a bunch of times and he gives him
1:30:19the little pinch and and there's
1:30:21actually a funny good moment I think
1:30:23we're work on is trying to squeeze
1:30:25squeeze squeeze box head to the cops and
1:30:28spot gives him a little like a mind-meld
1:30:30thing like to transfer the pain he's
1:30:33feeling and cons like how we know yikes
1:30:35and that was huh wow I did not realize
1:30:38never so much i will stop doing that to
1:30:40be yeah you know that sorry that's wrong
1:30:42I I apology
1:30:43well if if my head hurts when I squeeze
1:30:45your head then I'm not gonna do that
1:30:47because that's so then he tries to link
1:30:49breaks box and so no more this hand
1:30:51business you don't have any hand in my
1:30:55face and
1:30:55exactly and that and and and so to go to
1:31:01the the very end I'm also amused that
1:31:04they just put them all back in the
1:31:06freezer and I I actually kind of like
1:31:08that because it's almost like it's not
1:31:09the same obviously but it's almost like
1:31:12the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark where
1:31:14it's like we're going to file them away
1:31:15and I'm sure
1:31:17first off I'm sure he'll never be woken
1:31:20up again no and also i'm sure nobody
1:31:24will say hey where did the guy who has
1:31:26the blood that brings people back to
1:31:27life wit it's a shame that he died right
1:31:30he died right
1:31:31he didn't die what did we find him under
1:31:33three sea bass magic blood is that we
1:31:35have is under am blood come up magic
1:31:38they don't really need the bloody where
1:31:40the right be synthesized like McCoy
1:31:42synthesize some kind of resurrection
1:31:44serum may dramatically everyone
1:31:46Starfleet is a mortal man universe is
1:31:48immortal
1:31:49I also said they will forget completely
1:31:50about his blood caring people and that
1:31:53will not be a plot point future movies
1:31:55where he's revived until Star Trek the
1:31:56return of Khan wear then that will be
1:31:58the reason he's revived right well I
1:32:00mean maybe but they'll have a scene
1:32:02where they're they're having a battle on
1:32:03a spaceship where gravity is suspended
1:32:05in those drops that will be floating and
1:32:07I through so any other any other
1:32:13thoughts about into darkness sounds like
1:32:14everybody liked it
1:32:16I of course I didn't invite the people i
1:32:17know who didn't like it so good today I
1:32:20mean generally I mean it gets got the
1:32:22John syracuse the seal of approval folks
1:32:23you can't argue with that ending
1:32:25sequence where like I felt that was
1:32:26going a little bit too long we're like
1:32:27now the ship is falling and now the
1:32:29thing is gonna crash in san francisco
1:32:30had a little bit of multiple endings
1:32:32disease but my great gauging enough and
1:32:34especially once these are fighting on
1:32:35the garbage trucks whatever they were
1:32:36that that could have been tightened up a
1:32:38little bit and realize i feel like there
1:32:39was just so much in this movie that I
1:32:42you know I give them thumbs up for
1:32:44trying to wedge the movie scenes in the
1:32:45beginning but I would have liked them to
1:32:47tighten up the end a little bit as well
1:32:48but don't forget the other modules that
1:32:50we saw floating around including Carol
1:32:52Marcus like it's good to have family
1:32:53right
1:32:54nudge nudge at the very end and also I
1:32:58like to the reference to their
1:33:00references to nurse Chapel we believe
1:33:03was major Barrett's character in the
1:33:04original correct
1:33:06hey it's matt and section 31 inches deep
1:33:09space nine reference and Harry Mudd
1:33:11right buddy
1:33:13Yeah Yeah right mud the mud incident
1:33:16right so that makes also the scene at
1:33:19the very end where they get recruited
1:33:22for the Avengers I thought haha of
1:33:25people lies that the end of every movie
1:33:27after the credits samuel jackson shows
1:33:29up as nick fury and invite them to join
1:33:31the offenders
1:33:32you know that the chat room seems to
1:33:34demand that we talked about the
1:33:35situation sauce skype session
1:33:37yes oh and one of one of the complaints
1:33:39that I heard after the first movie was
1:33:41isn't cold spot going to sit down and
1:33:44write like okay here's who you need to
1:33:45worry about and and so we get that scene
1:33:48in here where he says no no I'm not
1:33:50gonna tell you you need to have your own
1:33:52destiny
1:33:53however battalion said just this one
1:33:56time just this one here's what you do
1:33:58incidentally is the only time I appear
1:34:00in this movie but I'm just saying just
1:34:01this one I would love to have seen a
1:34:03blooper reel where it's like now I won't
1:34:05tell you anything about your destiny but
1:34:07there's this guy khan and then like Oh
1:34:09be left to see some box wearing up with
1:34:12something like son of up
1:34:14yeah and and before I go wales just
1:34:17catch it
1:34:19make sure you have to keep a few on hand
1:34:20they're surprisingly handy
1:34:22you guys should really take care of the
1:34:24way home
1:34:26yeah is there a planet somewhere that
1:34:27has Wales because you should bring them
1:34:29back if a guy shows up and tell you that
1:34:31he's God and wants your ships a no-no
1:34:34does not need to start also that
1:34:37Sidewalk guy not my brother
1:34:39so it's a bummer for you don't let me
1:34:42feel your pain
1:34:42yeah I I thought it was I thought was
1:34:44fine i I didn't think we need to see old
1:34:45spark again but at that point in the
1:34:47movie when everything is very tense it's
1:34:48actually kind of funny I didn't mind it
1:34:51it's nice to see Leonard Nimoy again I I
1:34:53think I see a chair of to spark dynamic
1:34:56is actually pretty amusing but I didn't
1:34:58think it was necessary but I thought
1:34:59that was one of those cases where people
1:35:01who wanna ask what about the old Sparky
1:35:04knows everything
1:35:05this was an example of them trying to
1:35:07address one of those points i like the
1:35:09idea that he's having a conversation
1:35:10with himself on a bridge in plain view
1:35:12of like 20 crew members who all have all
1:35:14got to be going
1:35:15what the hell is going on there to
1:35:18sparks
1:35:19that come what what what also i just
1:35:21love that Leonard Nimoy retire has
1:35:23retired about 74 talking to my keeps
1:35:27coming back they said he said read those
1:35:29lines for his bathroom
1:35:30nobody retires like like that anymore
1:35:32yeah that was just skype call to New
1:35:35Vulcan he's always inspect Leonard
1:35:37Nimoy's always bring Spock makeup just
1:35:39no matter where you travel when Chris
1:35:41Pine was talking when Curtis talking
1:35:43about are now i guess it was spot was
1:35:45talking about i'll get the development
1:35:47home or the new new Vulcan or whatever
1:35:48that is on the line or whatever I was
1:35:50hoping that they were going to rope in
1:35:53the remainder of the Vulcans into the
1:35:55main plot line of the story and I was
1:35:56disappointed when I said I was just
1:35:58calling themselves calling spot this is
1:35:59Bob himself once it was him and that
1:36:02like I if if that was always going to be
1:36:04there i would just be perfectly happy to
1:36:06have that scene and that i am then
1:36:09Spock's idea of contacting the Balkans
1:36:10completely cut out of the movie
1:36:11yeah yeah it was not necessary it was
1:36:14nice and all but it wasn't necessary but
1:36:16you're right i think the ending was the
1:36:17was the sloppiest part did anybody else
1:36:22want to give you render their final
1:36:24judgment I i liked it i mean it's it's
1:36:28two movies in a row where I've walked
1:36:30out
1:36:30bouncing and ready to see the next
1:36:32episode next week
1:36:33yeah which I never would have thought
1:36:35before the first one and you know i i'm
1:36:40i'm also i'm very critical when I go see
1:36:42stuff because I'll think we'll see how
1:36:44would i have written it and it's it's
1:36:47sort of beard to me that these have been
1:36:50immune to my critic critical nature
1:36:54especially this one because again you
1:36:58know we went as the whole family and I'm
1:36:59sitting there with the kids and one of
1:37:02my favorite memories of last summer was
1:37:04showing the kids wrath of khan for the
1:37:07first time and they had no warning of it
1:37:10they had no idea about Spock's death or
1:37:13anything and you know we're watching the
1:37:16movie they're enjoying it in the living
1:37:17room is dark and at the end of the movie
1:37:19I look over and my eleven-year-old is it
1:37:22just completely in tears and I went oh
1:37:27my god that's what it was like 30 years
1:37:28ago
1:37:29and so watching this one is the same
1:37:31kind of things like I wonder what where
1:37:34he's going to react and they start
1:37:35getting into the you know Kirk
1:37:38sacrificing himself and the glass and I
1:37:42we are friends and all that and I look
1:37:45over and he's he's sitting there he goes
1:37:47wow that's like wrath of khan ya think
1:37:52well already okay my kids my kids I
1:37:55showed him around the con and they don't
1:37:56remember it they're like well I guess
1:37:58we're gonna watch it again you know that
1:38:00was like Rafa comment like that which
1:38:01one is that are not the one with whales
1:38:04it's one with God if we did we'd watch
1:38:06the one with the whales but Scott your
1:38:08verdict
1:38:08i speaking as a tried-and-true Star Trek
1:38:12fan i was satisfied with it I I mean
1:38:15I've read a lot of people listing link
1:38:18these things like you know
1:38:20coldfusion wouldn't freeze a volt yeah
1:38:23you know I'm like well warp doesn't work
1:38:26and you have transporters so you know I
1:38:30cut it a little it is a fictional movie
1:38:32it's a lot of fun like i said i think
1:38:35the I think that they captured the
1:38:37relationship which is what the original
1:38:38series is really about the relationship
1:38:40between Kirk and Spock and McCoy they
1:38:44got that right and i think that as long
1:38:46as you get that right you can you can
1:38:48hang a lot of stuff off of that forgives
1:38:50a lot of other faults exactly and and
1:38:52especially this movie got the right
1:38:53villain so submitted Cumberbatch's are
1:38:55really good a very different but a very
1:38:58good con and I saw this movie with my my
1:39:01wife and I said to her well who was the
1:39:04better con ricardo montalban or a bit
1:39:07corrupt and she said well better
1:39:09Cumberbatch was certainly the scarier
1:39:12con other more like chillingly
1:39:15frightening con but a ricardo montalban
1:39:19was angrier and I said yeah that's about
1:39:22right he had a lot of reasons to be
1:39:23angry he did just get shot onto a random
1:39:26planet by Captain Kirk's right i was
1:39:28waiting at the end of this movie for
1:39:30their be like they're not going to start
1:39:31out being programmed exact probably warn
1:39:35them against that part of it but also
1:39:37people remember montalban from starter
1:39:39to but you know in space seed he was
1:39:42you know he was much younger just like
1:39:44everybody was and this is this is that
1:39:46original thought out con here not the
1:39:50you know 20 years on the desert planet
1:39:52my wife got eaten by a seti land bit
1:39:55crazy with revenge
1:39:56yeah coming moby-dick over and over and
1:39:58over him until we packed a kindle but
1:40:03overall I really enjoyed it and I i was
1:40:06happy i did not i wasn't anchored by
1:40:08anything that happened did it and I
1:40:11thought I thought it was a great star
1:40:12trek movie and I will I saw it twice and
1:40:16I'll see it again I'll buy the blu-ray
1:40:19yep i want star trek back on TV but
1:40:22absolutely i think that will happen I i
1:40:24think it's inevitable that that will
1:40:26happen but they may have to make another
1:40:28one of these movies first and then segue
1:40:32into a spin-off series or something
1:40:34as I said to you on twitter jason i
1:40:36think it is clear that wrath of khan is
1:40:39a better movie but this movie is fun and
1:40:42enjoyable
1:40:43yes I don't know i just watched wrath of
1:40:46khan and maybe it's because it didn't
1:40:47date that well I rely i agree the wrath
1:40:49of khan is the best of the regular
1:40:51classic Star Trek movies i think i have
1:40:53to see this one again because I did only
1:40:54see one time and it's 10 and with my son
1:40:56so that may be clouding my judgment but
1:40:57aight i don't i would put this right up
1:41:01against the wrath of khan in in if both
1:41:03both of them viewed in modern times
1:41:05reading and maybe i'll have to see into
1:41:07darkness one more time to see we'll do a
1:41:09whole episode about the original Star
1:41:11Trek movies i would say that my four
1:41:13favorite Star Trek movies are these two
1:41:15and stir to and and first contact
1:41:19actually I i would say they're my four
1:41:22favorites could go with if you had four
1:41:24and six in there then you've listed
1:41:25every good star chick that's true voice
1:41:30always complaining about my six
1:41:32favorites that that when Kirk dies they
1:41:33don't take a whole movie to bring it
1:41:35back it's like yes they learned you see
1:41:38they learn about 20 spot that the search
1:41:41for Kirk it's the rocks across doubt it
1:41:44will just stuff like that you know i
1:41:46think you should be able to space and
1:41:48see what happened and see what happens
1:41:49shoot him at they could have shot him at
1:41:51kronos ahead and see what happens right
1:41:55the the Klingons would have resurrected
1:41:56that's where you hide your people isn't
1:41:58torpedoes that's how it works exactly
1:42:01alright so this has been good a guy i
1:42:05encourage the second viewing I think the
1:42:06second viewing would be good my kids
1:42:07like 2i I liked it better i saw in 3d
1:42:09the second time
1:42:10who did you see it in imax night I saw
1:42:12the regular 3d I don't really around me
1:42:14already
1:42:14I thought it was shot in 2d I think
1:42:16maybe just stay in 2d and I want you
1:42:18need the imax 3d happened twenty dollars
1:42:21tickets to see it in imax 3d was
1:42:23spectacular
1:42:25ah it was enjoyable I I then saw it
1:42:28again for seven dollars and I had just
1:42:30as much yeah there you go that's how
1:42:33they get you
1:42:34alright i go i'm going to call it
1:42:37this has been great I'd like to thank my
1:42:39guests as i always do as is my custom
1:42:40Dan Morgan thank you for being here it's
1:42:43my pleasure captain live long and
1:42:45prosper damn the force be with you
1:42:48David lower thanks for coming back on it
1:42:51was great to have you
1:42:52great to be here and and I should leave
1:42:54you as you lift me is that a threat
1:42:58John siracusa thank you you know we
1:43:01forgot to mention the best william
1:43:03shatner on ma Jin this entire movie
1:43:05which is the title which is without its
1:43:07colon star trek into darkness
1:43:10you don't know where to put the emphasis
1:43:12you can do it anyway I thought you can
1:43:14see the best are William Shatner imagine
1:43:15this movie was the TJ hooker seen i'm
1:43:18speaking up when spot rolls over the
1:43:20hood of that
1:43:21hey yeah i was thinking about canvas the
1:43:25scene where he fights all the spiders
1:43:27there is a william shatner reference
1:43:29that you have two more living room
1:43:31fair enough and Scott mcnulty it's you
1:43:33and me
1:43:34thank you for being on another star trek
1:43:36episode I don't know how it is that
1:43:37we've been on this podcast and we do
1:43:38like a billion episodes about Star Wars
1:43:40and like three about Star Trek how is
1:43:43that possible
1:43:44John meritocracy what that's outrageous
1:43:48I i I've also deeply offended that this
1:43:51movie was described as a star wars my
1:43:53will save it for our Star Wars versus
1:43:56Star Trek Ozzy in which we determine
1:43:58whether the enterprise or start a story
1:44:00would win in a fight
1:44:01wait well they also did say it was the
1:44:03best Star Wars movie of the last 20
1:44:05years so that's not it's not alright hi
1:44:08no but the good news is star trek to the
1:44:12rescue
1:44:13JJ Abrams will be warping through
1:44:17hyperspace to save the star wars
1:44:20franchise that's right episode 7 set
1:44:23your lightsabres to study these movies
1:44:25just a warm-up Jason yes now that he
1:44:27saved start track maybe he can save Star
1:44:29Wars with some of that Star Trek magic
1:44:31and swear all right until our next
1:44:34episode which will probably be about
1:44:35star wars because aren't they all this
1:44:37point for the uncomfortable in my fine
1:44:40fine panelist this is jason still
1:44:42signing off
1:44:43may the force be with you
1:44:59instructor to we there they faked the
1:45:01death of Spock and the rest of the crew
1:45:03in the Kobayashi Magoo meroo at the
1:45:05beginning construction i would choose to
1:45:07get it was good to see you can't win
1:45:10because you can't see anything can't see
1:45:12you like in the theater when I was
1:45:13taking notes that was the Kobayashi
1:45:14Magoo i'll tell ya see what I should
1:45:17have done is like very cleverly replay
1:45:19parts of our starter to the wrath of
1:45:21khan episode but with Scott and I taking
1:45:23the opposite roles but I didn't do you
1:45:28still can
1:45:29haha hello this is set to alpha 5 there
1:45:37we were told him
1:45:39excellent is this city on fire I just
1:45:42want i want i just watched Star Trek for
1:45:43the voyage home with my kids computer a
1:45:47little computer actually my favorite
1:45:49line in that movie is doctor gave me a
1:45:51pill the groovy a new kidney
1:45:53I love that that's so great field baby
1:45:56wails yeah hang on
1:45:59birds are pretty sure remember where we
1:46:01part exactly i'm in Indiana just working
1:46:05space is Iowa come on guys but he's in
1:46:09indiana
1:46:09I'm an Indian it's all out how it is
1:46:12this heaven
1:46:13alright i'm glad Jon Jon allows it
1:46:14that's good spot gives the Vulcan death
1:46:17grip that guy in the bus every collapse
1:46:19there's no such thing as we fucking
1:46:20death grip and justjust leave now you're
1:46:22embarrassing yourself
1:46:24search your feelings you know it to be
1:46:26true
1:46:27what no
1:46:29that's not true that's impossible you
1:46:34know you guys have done the city al5
1:46:35reading so much that when i went back
1:46:37and watch wrath of khan again the actual
1:46:40reading in the movie is now less
1:46:42exciting format
1:46:43you're very like it's just under well
1:46:45it's been exciting like oh he just kind
1:46:47of says the lines a little bit of
1:46:48emphasis is nothing like the
1:46:50over-the-top this is City alpha hive