The Incomparable

143: The Best "Star Wars" Movie In Years


  the incomparable number 143 2 20 30 [TS]

  welcome back to be uncomfortable podcast [TS]

  I'm your host Jason smell and we are [TS]

  here tonight to talk about JJ Abrams [TS]

  revisiting rebooting a star trek most [TS]

  specifically the new film star trek into [TS]

  darkness but i think we could also talk [TS]

  in general about the the previous movie [TS]

  too because that predates this podcast [TS]

  the 2009 edition of Star Trek joining me [TS]

  to discuss the the new star trek movies [TS]

  are a fine collection of folks dad [TS]

  morons here is always hide am I Jason to [TS]

  pleasure to have beamed in for this [TS]

  occasion thank you more of a deep space [TS]

  nine guy but it's nice of you two to [TS]

  take got baptized see a little bit of [TS]

  everything alright fair enough you you [TS]

  know what is it a big star Wars fan like [TS]

  Dan but he's on this podcast it's john [TS]

  siracusa hi John [TS]

  yeah I missed the the wrath of khan [TS]

  episode which was the one you know [TS]

  classic Star Trek movie that I would [TS]

  possibly want to be on well for [TS]

  Charlie's want to do I there we have [TS]

  done that one yeah [TS]

  so here i am also here my-my go to Star [TS]

  Trek expert Scott multi-ply Scott oh I'm [TS]

  excited to talk about Star Trek for [TS]

  president and also a david lawrence here [TS]

  hi David hello I guess I why don't we [TS]

  start by by going back to 2009 and [TS]

  talking about the original JJ Abrams [TS]

  reboot movie a little bit you know i [TS]

  liked it i saw it twice in the theater I [TS]

  have the DVD or blu-ray i watched a [TS]

  bunch of times you know it's certainly [TS]

  not without its flaws but you know what [TS]

  I really liked about it was going back [TS]

  to the original which is obviously it's [TS]

  one of the most influential you know TV [TS]

  shows of my life I can't remember not [TS]

  watching the original Star Trek have [TS]

  seen those episodes as detailed in a [TS]

  couple previous episodes the [TS]

  incomparable so many times and I thought [TS]

  they did a really good job of taking [TS]

  this those classic characters and this [TS]

  franchise that was kind of on its last [TS]

  legs and and revitalizing it making it a [TS]

  modern enjoyable film that you know [TS]

  audiences really liked and and i enjoyed [TS]

  a lot even though it does have some some [TS]

  things that bug me about it in young [TS]

  talents I i really love it i'm just kind [TS]

  of interested before we get started on [TS]

  the new movie to go around and get your [TS]

  guys take on on that the cliff face as [TS]

  if there were remember back to episode- [TS]

  60 of the uncomfortable when we talk [TS]

  about it in 2009 I remember it like this [TS]

  now there's no flash back we went on the [TS]

  air then hmm so uh so we will start with [TS]

  Scott since he's the resident star trek [TS]

  expert you know give a little overview [TS]

  of your thoughts of the 2009 movie [TS]

  well III went to it much like I imagined [TS]

  Dan and John went into the Phantom [TS]

  Menace except when i left my soul was [TS]

  not crushed [TS]

  wow I i was happy try that knife a [TS]

  little bit more scared [TS]

  sorry because you have no soul true i [TS]

  had removed before i went to see the [TS]

  movie I was quite happy that the the [TS]

  reboot i thought was faithful at least [TS]

  in tone to star trek i mean i have I i [TS]

  wonder if they really had to blow up [TS]

  Vulcan but others and that does anybody [TS]

  really have to do anything that's really [TS]

  the whole coincidence if you know Spock [TS]

  is just hanging out in an ice cave and [TS]

  Kirk just happens to land on that planet [TS]

  and they happen to run into each other [TS]

  and then they happen to see Vulcan get [TS]

  destroyed its kind of stretching it but [TS]

  overall thumbs up there enough John [TS]

  yeah I didn't I have a false memory of [TS]

  us doing a podcast about average [TS]

  I think you would have yeah because I [TS]

  and I was I was about to say remember we [TS]

  when we talk about that like when i [TS]

  first watched the movie I must talk [TS]

  about something you guys about it in [TS]

  person [TS]

  I remember complaining about like the [TS]

  the silly scenes where Kirk's running [TS]

  around with his hand all puffy and some [TS]

  of it weird tone tonal shifts in the [TS]

  middle and like I had complaints and I [TS]

  was like it was good I liked it but you [TS]

  know but I wish they hadn't like after I [TS]

  saw the theater like that was fun but [TS]

  like the bad parts are stuck in my craw [TS]

  and i recently rewatched it with my son [TS]

  which will be a thing later when we talk [TS]

  about this movie and I liked it way more [TS]

  the on you know I guess is probably my [TS]

  third of you because i think i saw it [TS]

  some other way i like the way more [TS]

  seeing it you know [TS]

  recently many years after its release [TS]

  because i was able to like the idea [TS]

  silly parts the annoying parts didn't [TS]

  bother me as much and I was just able to [TS]

  appreciate the things I really did like [TS]

  about the big dramatic beginning the [TS]

  Cecilia over-the-top introduction of [TS]

  child Kirk like some of it just like [TS]

  went around the bend you know that [TS]

  slingshot around the Sun so to speak [TS]

  sure and and managed to come out the [TS]

  other side and I was just able to enjoy [TS]

  it as good goofy fun and enjoy the space [TS]

  battle things and just like and maybe [TS]

  it's because I i watch it again leading [TS]

  up to knowing I was going to see the new [TS]

  one because I just wanted to get back [TS]

  into that mindset and seeing the JJ [TS]

  Abrams style star trek lens flares and [TS]

  all like it there's a particular visual [TS]

  and kinetic style to the way he's chosen [TS]

  to do Star Trek that I think is [TS]

  different than the least the other [TS]

  property jayven properties that I've [TS]

  seen from him i was on board with that [TS]

  and watching it again [TS]

  I liked it more and I was excited to see [TS]

  the next movie alright which you did but [TS]

  we'll get to that David what about you [TS]

  well you know I saw it you're well I saw [TS]

  all the spoilers for it beforehand [TS]

  even though it hadn't come out you know [TS]

  there's it's gonna be well I mean you [TS]

  know Spock is going to be back and it's [TS]

  gonna be a diverging timeline and then [TS]

  they delayed the movie for a couple [TS]

  months so I had all that time to be [TS]

  sitting there going to virgin timeline [TS]

  to god no and I got all that anger out [TS]

  is nothing sacred exactly is the [TS]

  continuity built up like little layers [TS]

  of a coral reef over 40 years that it [TS]

  doesn't really interest anybody but [TS]

  Phil's lots of reference material sacred [TS]

  exactly maybe tipping my hand here a [TS]

  little bit okay go out and it is secret [TS]

  it well yeah [TS]

  oh yes so I just sort of I expiated all [TS]

  of that before i went to see the movie [TS]

  and so as soon as it came out as you [TS]

  know the midnight sneak preview [TS]

  alright I'm there [TS]

  and I didn't mind and it kept going and [TS]

  i still didn't mind and by the end of [TS]

  the movie [TS]

  yeah i had had issues with it but I just [TS]

  enjoyed the cast and the chemistry so [TS]

  much and as soon as the orchestral [TS]

  version or the full orchestra playing [TS]

  the classic theme and the planets [TS]

  zooming up at you i had the biggest [TS]

  stupid smile on my face and I think I [TS]

  had it all the way home and I got home [TS]

  and my wife looked at me and said good [TS]

  as well [TS]

  oh yeah yeah that was the best magic [TS]

  trick that movie that theme at the end [TS]

  because I held it the whole thing I just [TS]

  put at the end and like this cheating is [TS]

  cheating they're sending you out and [TS]

  like you know they withheld it the whole [TS]

  movie and they send you out on that note [TS]

  and how can you not go to the theater [TS]

  smiling at [TS]

  oh yeah can't believe that in the entire [TS]

  history of the star trek movie franchise [TS]

  they never played the freaking theme [TS]

  song thats true yes the Star Trek the [TS]

  motion picture they use the theme song [TS]

  that would eventually become the next [TS]

  generation stamps on now they'll do the [TS]

  do to do to do to do but they never [TS]

  actually like played the original [TS]

  exactly they never get it yet and and [TS]

  that was that moment in that movie was [TS]

  like oh my god I've just enjoyed this [TS]

  entire moving and now and now this [TS]

  yeah what more could you ask for you [TS]

  know I was gonna say about the [TS]

  continuity it's not as if like a man [TS]

  comes to your house when you see the new [TS]

  Star Trek and takes your dvds of the old [TS]

  star trek and breaks them and set your [TS]

  books on fire [TS]

  a man came to my house and did that but [TS]

  it wasn't connected [TS]

  oh no that was me dab you snow snow [TS]

  Simon Pegg did come to my house and burn [TS]

  only Star Wars stuff after Finn panting [TS]

  minutes can you blame him [TS]

  references list my main problem with the [TS]

  the star trek 2009 was that the villain [TS]

  was not all that interesting to me [TS]

  oh yes he had a cool ship but he was [TS]

  just a pissed-off minor I was like a [TS]

  yeah who cares and and it didn't you [TS]

  know where was he for all of the years [TS]

  between baby Jim Kirk and grownup Jim [TS]

  Kirk it was bad [TS]

  he's off doing stuff he was in a Klingon [TS]

  prison but that was really boring so [TS]

  they just cut that scene out the DVD but [TS]

  you're right in fact that whole the [TS]

  whole as clever as the diversion time [TS]

  lineas and as wonderful as an opening [TS]

  scene as the opening scene with the [TS]

  Kelvin with Kirk's father sacrificing [TS]

  himself [TS]

  I and all of that is so great and yet [TS]

  the mechanics of Nero and I actually [TS]

  think the worst single thing in that [TS]

  entire movie is the when Spock does his [TS]

  lengthy monologue that doesn't make any [TS]

  sense [TS]

  yes where he says oh there was a black [TS]

  hole then I had the red matter and that [TS]

  there was no a star that threaten the [TS]

  galaxy which doesn't make any sense and [TS]

  it and it's just like we just needed [TS]

  this to happen and I i read the in on [TS]

  the commentary track on the blu-ray uh [TS]

  they actually say that originally [TS]

  Leonard Nimoy's voiceover was clear and [TS]

  they made it all weird and distorted [TS]

  looks like don't pay attention to what [TS]

  he's saying it's just but whatever blah [TS]

  and it's and it's the weakest thing in [TS]

  the movie is actually this kind of like [TS]

  the villain in the and the mechanism of [TS]

  the plot its speaking of the last doctor [TS]

  who episode and Clara Clara has a plot [TS]

  device instead of a character like I [TS]

  that's when you know you've been you're [TS]

  naming all the things that I didn't like [TS]

  about your first movie and starting to [TS]

  make me not like it again because we're [TS]

  going on that instead of the good parts [TS]

  but I for you if you are if you were a [TS]

  big star trek fan this thing that they [TS]

  did with the thing going back in time [TS]

  and creating a virgin diversion timeline [TS]

  is perhaps the most respectful possible [TS]

  way you can reboot the franchise because [TS]

  you are you are saying we are not going [TS]

  to touch like what really quote-unquote [TS]

  really happened like that will always be [TS]

  there we're not pretending it didn't [TS]

  happen just telling saying it's not even [TS]

  really a reboot it's a mere continuation [TS]

  and and in that respect Nero is a plot [TS]

  device whose purposes to allow us to [TS]

  have a new franchise to kiss to make [TS]

  this movie completely unencumbered by [TS]

  continuity largely by from the point of [TS]

  the divergence b but never met was a [TS]

  rational point of view that did yet you [TS]

  are like there-there they are making [TS]

  themselves more income than they have to [TS]

  because they want to do modules and all [TS]

  the ridiculous things when the reality [TS]

  would have diverged so much that nothing [TS]

  resembling any other movies would ever [TS]

  happen except maybe the whale think its [TS]

  toll on its way right but it i thought [TS]

  that was such like that was one of the [TS]

  things that you know the theme song at [TS]

  the end is like I realized and guess [TS]

  what they can do anything they want from [TS]

  here and it shouldn't piss anyone off [TS]

  because they are leaving intact the real [TS]

  you know Star Trek timeline but now [TS]

  they're free to do whatever they want [TS]

  and so that's that's one of the reasons [TS]

  i was so excited about the second movie [TS]

  I I a bunch of arguments with people on [TS]

  Twitter about the about the star trek [TS]

  into darkness you may have noticed and [TS]

  one of the ones that I got a lot was [TS]

  well they shouldn't change continuity [TS]

  issues just been you know with it [TS]

  painting within the numbers within the [TS]

  little lines of existing establish [TS]

  continuities like wow there's no drama [TS]

  and I've seen prequels and not just Star [TS]

  Wars I mean there's no drama in the [TS]

  leading up to the obvious and mandatory [TS]

  eventualities I I just think it's it's [TS]

  it would be boring in the extreme to do [TS]

  that and and so you know their moments [TS]

  in star trek into darkness where I [TS]

  actually I'm thinking where they going [TS]

  to kill some of the main characters not [TS]

  that 1i knew they weren't gonna kill [TS]

  that one and we'll get to that but but [TS]

  that you know there were moments where I [TS]

  actually felt like jeopardy for the [TS]

  characters and of course it was just a [TS]

  straight-on prequel I would never felt [TS]

  that Dan did I I didn't get to you did I [TS]

  i think the first thing that struck me [TS]

  watching the movie was I that I don't [TS]

  believe there is a oscar forecasting but [TS]

  if there were I think this movie should [TS]

  win every year i think they did they do [TS]

  one of the best casting jobs i think i [TS]

  could ever like they they managed to [TS]

  perfectly nail all of these characters [TS]

  so that they were familiar yet not [TS]

  dislike that distinctly different at the [TS]

  same time and to me that was that was [TS]

  quite the coup because i remember [TS]

  reading the cast list when it came out [TS]

  here like reading like okay [TS]

  Zachary Quintos playing Spock what yeah [TS]

  I can see that and and simon Pegg's [TS]

  playing Scotty well that's awesome and [TS]

  and John chose playing salute well [TS]

  that's a great choice you know and you [TS]

  keep kind of going and going there were [TS]

  a couple people i was unsure of the [TS]

  first time around but Karl Urban really [TS]

  really want me over i think im so yeah [TS]

  okay to John earlier tonight actually [TS]

  that that uh I i will now watch pretty [TS]

  much anything with him in it because it [TS]

  is this [TS]

  just a couple scenes where he just [TS]

  totally nails it which caused good [TS]

  because he's doing an American accent [TS]

  that show where he hasn't he's a cop [TS]

  with a robot partner [TS]

  oh I'm gonna watch that now yeah i watch [TS]

  Gunsmoke was a cop [TS]

  I think maybe bones is is is the best [TS]

  casting of the mall which is saying [TS]

  something because I i agree with you i [TS]

  think they did they did a good job and i [TS]

  remember reading something during the [TS]

  production of that first movie that they [TS]

  were approaching it they said look [TS]

  because this was controversial like [TS]

  other actors playing these parts they [TS]

  said look these are classic roles is [TS]

  your classic characters you know [TS]

  different productions of Shakespeare [TS]

  have different actors and have had that [TS]

  for hundreds of years like it isn't the [TS]

  character of Captain Kirk something so [TS]

  so great isn't the Kirk Spock McCoy [TS]

  relationship so interesting that it [TS]

  deserves to be explored further and not [TS]

  just by the original actors so we've had [TS]

  six guys play James Bond right like you [TS]

  know which is also an iconic characters [TS]

  i don't see really a problem with that [TS]

  the other thing which is kind of John [TS]

  touched on was this the divergent [TS]

  timelines as a way to keep the original [TS]

  canon intact which the more i think [TS]

  about the more I find brilliant because [TS]

  the problem to a certain extent well so [TS]

  a lot of the earlier Star Trek movies [TS]

  and hang you know hold up alright i [TS]

  think the problem to a certain extent is [TS]

  that they don't really play to the [TS]

  modern movie goings in the same way that [TS]

  we didn't they didn't like James Bond [TS]

  like James Bond has to get reinvented [TS]

  for every era because you know Roger [TS]

  Moore isn't going to fly in the 2000s [TS]

  besides the fact is like 90 but it's [TS]

  like that there's a different tone right [TS]

  like there's a different there's a [TS]

  different style of filmmaking at the [TS]

  time dimension and that's the thing that [TS]

  star wars fans are stored friends like [TS]

  to complain so much about with the [TS]

  special editions is like well it's like [TS]

  you're trying to take a 70s movie and [TS]

  making into a nineties movie and that [TS]

  feels really weird and so they they were [TS]

  able to diverge the timelines and and [TS]

  you know treat the separate thing that [TS]

  is very much of its era it's very much a [TS]

  movie of it of its time and yet has a [TS]

  lot of you know the the same elements we [TS]

  really like because like you know you [TS]

  look back at like the bridge from the [TS]

  enterprise in the original series it's [TS]

  like when you couldn't have like the [TS]

  blinking lights today right like it [TS]

  would work it would look silly with the [TS]

  switches short switches are great those [TS]

  witches are awesome i mean the scene i [TS]

  always say the scene that they got [TS]

  me and the first trailer seen that I [TS]

  loved so much was the scene it's just a [TS]

  one-shot of the Sulu like moving the [TS]

  lever to make the enterprise go to warp [TS]

  i just i love it's like this chrome [TS]

  lever it looks like a hot rod remember [TS]

  when I put that screenshot on Mac os10 [TS]

  review [TS]

  yes yes because i was a quicktime player [TS]

  and like yes that that one image jumped [TS]

  out at me as well so much so that I very [TS]

  intentionally chose it because you have [TS]

  to show something playing in the movie [TS]

  thing is that exact scene and to speak [TS]

  to it i think that you know i will say [TS]

  that that this the star trek is the best [TS]

  Star Wars movie we've had in the last [TS]

  like 15 years but it is i mean like in [TS]

  that you've seen you've no doubt if [TS]

  people haven't seen these the shot you [TS]

  know side-by-side shots of like Star [TS]

  Wars and Star Trek it's it's pretty like [TS]

  there's a user's a youtube video where [TS]

  they compared like you know Kirk going [TS]

  out on his little like speeder bike out [TS]

  to the enterprise and looking up at the [TS]

  enterprise to Luke going and looking at [TS]

  the sunset they call that the luke [TS]

  skywalker shot right JJ Abrams is a huge [TS]

  Star Wars fan was not necessarily a [TS]

  really big star trek fan before getting [TS]

  into this so i think to me you know it [TS]

  felt like it incorporated a lot of the [TS]

  things that i liked about Star Wars and [TS]

  there is that element of and we'll get [TS]

  into this little bit more with into [TS]

  darkness but the helmet of even if it's [TS]

  a totally different timeline there are [TS]

  still dare I say it fixed point or like [TS]

  well there are there are elements in it [TS]

  i like the idea of there are elements [TS]

  like there's inescapable things like [TS]

  Kirk and you know certain villains are [TS]

  going to meet up no matter what timeline [TS]

  it is clearly the first even the first [TS]

  of the first movie makes it clear it's [TS]

  like a they never says it but it's very [TS]

  clear that there has to be some the [TS]

  universe's wanting to get these people [TS]

  together that's why I can forgive mr. [TS]

  Spock being down cold spot being down on [TS]

  the the ice planet at when Kirk gets [TS]

  sent down there and that Scotty happens [TS]

  to be at the outpost there it's because [TS]

  you know the the timeline diverge but [TS]

  the universe is gonna get these people [TS]

  back together right and i think that [TS]

  makes it emotional sense but not [TS]

  rational sense it's like a Stephen King [TS]

  book where there's always some unseen [TS]

  force causing the story to control [TS]

  come to the shape that makes for a [TS]

  dramatic story and I think that that [TS]

  works from a sense of they bothered me i [TS]

  like you know I i had that you know sort [TS]

  of quibble the first time around and I [TS]

  think it was because i was very much [TS]

  holding onto this old like going into it [TS]

  expecting it to be much more like the [TS]

  star trek I'd grown up with which is all [TS]

  very rational and science fictiony and [TS]

  this was a little bit more fantastic and [TS]

  so I I mean once I sort of separated the [TS]

  element the part of me that was like it [TS]

  doesn't really feel like star trek from [TS]

  the part of me that's like yeah but I [TS]

  kind of like there's a story then I [TS]

  think I came around on it when when I [TS]

  was when I showed it to my son he you [TS]

  know he's picking out the different plot [TS]

  points and saying I was cool in this you [TS]

  know and he liked the timeline diverging [TS]

  worked and was amazed by that and when [TS]

  we got to that point you know how you [TS]

  know it's well Scotty's there an old [TS]

  spot is there and have been why is he [TS]

  there and doesn't make any sense and he [TS]

  said we act as Spock sent him to the [TS]

  planet and I went and even though it's [TS]

  not the same spot obviously but to him [TS]

  it made enough sense that there was like [TS]

  this residual idea for Spock to do that [TS]

  spacious spunkiness otherwise it's like [TS]

  why would you do that in the first place [TS]

  ok right because it because it had to be [TS]

  done exactly is the old sci-fi trope of [TS]

  planets in science fiction movies are [TS]

  about the size of a living room yes [TS]

  because no matter where you send someone [TS]

  down on a planet he is inevitably within [TS]

  walking distance of the most important [TS]

  thing or person on the entire planet [TS]

  that's just that's just a standard size [TS]

  five triples plants are actually really [TS]

  big and in reality you would spend seven [TS]

  years getting to the point really didn't [TS]

  there are that many around any given [TS]

  star and they're not very close together [TS]

  and yet there are several moments in [TS]

  this in the original Abrams Star Trek [TS]

  and in many other sci-fi movies words [TS]

  like planets tons of them they're all [TS]

  very close to each other and they're [TS]

  very small and it's like no that's not [TS]

  it I i also have to deal with the like [TS]

  the quote on quote rule-breaking and if [TS]

  I were wearing if I actually were [TS]

  classes i would be pushing them what up [TS]

  on my nose right now to say like the [TS]

  transporter doesn't actually work well [TS]

  at warp and you can't send people over [TS]

  those [TS]

  long distances from the the years and [TS]

  years I spent reading star trek [TS]

  technical manuals but again I just was [TS]

  like you know what I mean I it's finally [TS]

  we get there for a plot devised a way to [TS]

  go they had an in story explanation for [TS]

  that those like y'all this is you know [TS]

  the war the fortunes of the blah blah [TS]

  right it just bothered me at the time is [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah as a plot device it's also just [TS]

  like a transfer student pretty much [TS]

  anything we want the two but then you [TS]

  look back at the old seriously like yeah [TS]

  you could like make separate people [TS]

  carry diseases like that's all sorts of [TS]

  things you can do with transport is the [TS]

  evil blankets [TS]

  yes make even sure who's to say you [TS]

  won't invent transparent aluminum that's [TS]

  right all right now with you but if that [TS]

  was the guy who went except except the [TS]

  differences that Scotty smart enough to [TS]

  immediately say excuse me are you for [TS]

  the future immediately making out is [TS]

  that you know Eric man is not very [TS]

  interesting by the way he's just he is [TS]

  either everything I just like that line [TS]

  to get these spit flying out of his [TS]

  mouth when he does it's great [TS]

  yeah and that's it that's a ship with no [TS]

  handrails no guardrails are sure it is [TS]

  very unsafe excellent balance that bad [TS]

  industrial design it doesn't even seem [TS]

  to have like a complete floor anywhere [TS]

  no that's a Romulan miners don't like [TS]

  it's therefore rocks like they don't [TS]

  around they do they do calisthenics and [TS]

  stuff and I stab you with a little pokey [TS]

  stabby thing if you miss them at least [TS]

  they were reasons can just throw I like [TS]

  that the industrial design the film is [TS]

  also really really great i mentioned the [TS]

  lever on the enterprise before but also [TS]

  i love the phasers i love that they have [TS]

  the whole thing that flips from likes [TS]

  done to kill ya [TS]

  that's awesome it's just it's not one of [TS]

  those touches that like it it would not [TS]

  have looked out of place in the 60 [TS]

  series and yet it's still modern and to [TS]

  me that is awesome [TS]

  that's just brilliant design believe the [TS]

  enterprise is recognizably is the [TS]

  enterprise but I you know has a modern [TS]

  take on it that makes it again and the [TS]

  bridge the same way I mean the bridge is [TS]

  is more or less functional in the way [TS]

  that the original Star Trek bridge is [TS]

  but it doesn't look like it at all it's [TS]

  all apple store you know it's glass and [TS]

  white and yea alright a star trek into [TS]

  darkness just came out and we all saw it [TS]

  and [TS]

  I i'll put it out there [TS]

  I really enjoyed it i thought it was [TS]

  very entertaining again it doesn't it's [TS]

  not without its flaws but you know I [TS]

  actually think that it has fewer flaws [TS]

  them the 2009 movie starting with a much [TS]

  better villain but much more interesting [TS]

  actor doing much more interesting things [TS]

  then then Eric Bana [TS]

  sadly I mean he's not a terrible actor [TS]

  or anything but he's not given much to [TS]

  do and he doesn't do anything with it so [TS]

  you know and and and John Harrison [TS]

  aka the Mandarin is also known as con la [TS]

  what I did not pick up other know you [TS]

  missed me didn't notice that I thought [TS]

  he was playing James Caan yeah week on [TS]

  let me calculate you know and and he's [TS]

  he cover Benedict Cumberbatch's great uh [TS]

  Peter Weller is interesting although i [TS]

  think peter weller is going to be [TS]

  sinister and everything so when it turns [TS]

  out that he said Mr I was like I told [TS]

  you he was sinister it's peter weller it [TS]

  was a good guy robocop yeah trying but I [TS]

  agree he's not a guy that you cast to be [TS]

  like oh yeah that guy's a good guy Bruce [TS]

  Greenwood is the good guy [TS]

  yeah he's here Weller is not a good guy [TS]

  I either the thing with Cumberbatch's he [TS]

  does such a great job of looking like [TS]

  he's got such that such odd features in [TS]

  some ways that they really work with a [TS]

  Sherlock he looks he looks for till Ian [TS]

  to me in this like they do a really good [TS]

  job like nao he loses that cold-blooded [TS]

  like it's just so i'll make you so [TS]

  menacing i really be in to go from like [TS]

  Sherlock to that it's so white with [TS]

  flashy and and he's he said I mean this [TS]

  is really cool [TS]

  it amazes me that he got cast like two [TS]

  days before he started filming which [TS]

  yeah that's nuts but he said he went to [TS]

  the trouble of actually making every [TS]

  line reading sound a little bit alien [TS]

  sound like a little bit like he had been [TS]

  manufactured which makes sense right and [TS]

  so so everything after hearing that I'm [TS]

  kind of listening to him going oh yeah [TS]

  that's cool because it really is a [TS]

  different line reading from anything he [TS]

  doesn't Sherlock parades and don't watch [TS]

  parades and unless you want to watch him [TS]

  cry but Christ on cry it was an inspired [TS]

  choice because I i actually I would have [TS]

  loved to have been a fly on the wall as [TS]

  the producers of this movie kept [TS]

  approaching actors initially approaching [TS]

  hispanic actors who are like c'mon you [TS]

  want to do your take on like end and [TS]

  they're all like no I'm not going to do [TS]

  that [TS]

  no forget it forget it and they end up [TS]

  with this English guy and I think they [TS]

  mean I guess it was a gamble because [TS]

  nobody really knew who going to come [TS]

  Rebecca was at that point except those [TS]

  of us who would seem the first season of [TS]

  sherlock i guess but they will be locked [TS]

  out because he brings a whole lot right [TS]

  i mean you gotta have you got to have [TS]

  good a good interesting character with [TS]

  things to do but you really have to have [TS]

  a charismatic actor and Cumberbatch is [TS]

  that is that guy when I saw this movie [TS]

  the second time because i watched it [TS]

  twice i was sitting next to what turned [TS]

  out to be cumbered fans who were [TS]

  wheeling every time he appears on-screen [TS]

  it was considered was very strange but I [TS]

  I totally get it he's he's you know that [TS]

  they were very fortunate to cast him so [TS]

  suddenly as we're talking about this i [TS]

  really wanted there to be a scene in the [TS]

  movie where they cut away and Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch like goes to his little view [TS]

  screen and pulls it up and then calls [TS]

  like Ricardo Montalban and like yeah so [TS]

  I know this box over there getting [TS]

  advice from the spa can really open your [TS]

  shirt more it [TS]

  smiles everyone spot does the Enterprise [TS]

  bridge still have fine Corinthian [TS]

  leather no it's glass and white plastic [TS]

  do you still have the shield coat a [TS]

  four-digit prefer that would you be [TS]

  yes although again this is not this is [TS]

  not the wrath of khan because its way [TS]

  earlier and everybody and it's a little [TS]

  more like a you know almost space seed [TS]

  except spacey wasn't that great episode [TS]

  and was horribly sex system so you know [TS]

  other any other thoughts about the about [TS]

  Cumberbatch or any of the other acting [TS]

  performances and into darkness i think [TS]

  that might be a good place to do you [TS]

  mentioned a lot of the cast for the [TS]

  first movie but didn't mention one of my [TS]

  most pleasant surprises which is chris [TS]

  pine the casting for Kirk because that [TS]

  that I feel like is the toughest role to [TS]

  cast and all the some people might think [TS]

  it would be Spock and maybe that's true [TS]

  i'm just kind of spoiled by zachary [TS]

  quinto but you know what do you do with [TS]

  william shatner right like you don't [TS]

  know whether you're going to try to do a [TS]

  william shatner impression or be a [TS]

  different character but not end up as [TS]

  charismatic and chris pine has I feel [TS]

  his walk that line he's not doing [TS]

  william shatner impression he is [TS]

  charismatic I i connect [TS]

  with him like some of the challenges so [TS]

  they didn't like him i don't i don't [TS]

  know how you can dislike him in these [TS]

  movies he just he walks that line so [TS]

  amazingly well did not for a second do I [TS]

  question that this is a character that I [TS]

  like that i'm rooting for this [TS]

  entertaining me and never any me some [TS]

  some of his readings he will do you know [TS]

  the shatner thing but just barely enough [TS]

  for you to go ok you can have that one [TS]

  right and then he goes on in the last [TS]

  scene of the first movie he does that [TS]

  bones yes it is but you totally nailed [TS]

  it in that one I don't know how he does [TS]

  that but just a little chatter right [TS]

  just a little bit a little shudder goes [TS]

  a long way [TS]

  yes yeah he knows just the right amount [TS]

  to put in so you don't see it or hate it [TS]

  but it was enough to also be that [TS]

  callback moment of oh god it's really [TS]

  Kirk right like that's right it's not [TS]

  just some other dude in a yellow shirt [TS]

  right you know i think that was what [TS]

  sold it for me and then having these [TS]

  these different actors but with a [TS]

  chemistry that is also very much like [TS]

  the original chemistry [TS]

  yeah the relationships are familiar if [TS]

  the individual people aren't I was like [TS]

  I recognize that triangle the bones [TS]

  McCoy you know if you recognize that [TS]

  even though it's deep blue so clearly [TS]

  different people it's like you said [TS]

  about the Shakespeare you know the same [TS]

  roles different actors also one of the [TS]

  brilliant things that I didn't mention [TS]

  we were talking about that the original [TS]

  movie in that podcast that didn't accept [TS]

  John um is we never unlike so many shows [TS]

  and movies and things you know Star Trek [TS]

  started the original Star Trek started [TS]

  with them on their mission and so we [TS]

  haven't seen these characters at this [TS]

  point in their lives in either of these [TS]

  two movies right Kirk even at one of the [TS]

  complaints a lot of people had about the [TS]

  about the 2009 movie is that you know [TS]

  he's made the captain of the enterprise [TS]

  at the evidence like really he was just [TS]

  cheating at his Kobayashi Maru exam and [TS]

  now he's did you have no other captains [TS]

  that you could put in charge and this [TS]

  move on of them did get blown up right [TS]

  one into darkness addresses that right [TS]

  where where Kirk gets busted back to [TS]

  first officer because he's not ready and [TS]

  he's got response i mean for 10 minutes [TS]

  valuable lesson for that long [TS]

  I mean it is Star Trek they should have [TS]

  made him they should have busted out to [TS]

  cadet and then the whole movie could [TS]

  have been him just studying and [TS]

  Starfleet [TS]

  yeah that's one of the nice things about [TS]

  about seeing chris pine and his [TS]

  relationship actually with with Pike [TS]

  with bruce greenwood which is is his you [TS]

  know his father figure essentially and [TS]

  it's great because in the original Star [TS]

  Trek you end the movies other than spot [TS]

  dyeing Kirk does all this crazy stuff [TS]

  and he always gets away with it right [TS]

  and so it's good to have that early in [TS]

  his career like he's got that tendency [TS]

  and he's got somebody to push back at [TS]

  him and say you you know you were gonna [TS]

  be in trouble if you have if you have [TS]

  this attitude i was pleasantly surprised [TS]

  to have pike in as much a day of it is [TS]

  he is like in that first you know half [TS]

  hour so he people is a pretty important [TS]

  part and I i really like the screen [TS]

  would have been a fan of his for years [TS]

  and it was great to have that scene [TS]

  where they're sitting in the bar and you [TS]

  get a call back to yeah I remember that [TS]

  bar fight where you you know got the [TS]

  crap kicked out of you [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs paper towels up your [TS]

  nose and everything and like it was just [TS]

  it was a nice scene that it really [TS]

  humanizes Kirk who as you said like [TS]

  oftentimes as the protagonist gets to [TS]

  get away with a lot of things but yeah [TS]

  having him be much more of a human [TS]

  character and kind of a script because [TS]

  he is always walk in that edge right [TS]

  he's always walking the knife's edge and [TS]

  trying to like not quite play by the [TS]

  book get things done and I they do a [TS]

  good job of capturing that I like the [TS]

  fact that this kirk this time lines Kirk [TS]

  I i connect with him more because [TS]

  basically they killed his father off [TS]

  right because i always felt like being [TS]

  out there the original Kirk was just [TS]

  made me know and we supposed to be smug [TS]

  but just maybe a little bit to smuggle [TS]

  feel like maybe his he had his life with [TS]

  his life was a little bit too easy going [TS]

  to start the quiz this card immediately [TS]

  kill off his dad and so he's you know [TS]

  someone growing up without a father has [TS]

  to find out that's why he's such a [TS]

  screw-up at the beginning of the 2009 [TS]

  movie and in a way that I don't imagine [TS]

  you know the william shatner Kirk being [TS]

  that kind of a screw-up so it makes epic [TS]

  makes him more interesting in a Star [TS]

  Trek II kind of way of like Luke being [TS]

  this annoying whiny loser at the [TS]

  beginning of the movie [TS]

  it gives the character better arc and I [TS]

  feel like this guy's now a wild card [TS]

  because he is it basically he has had [TS]

  his formative experience of childhood [TS]

  without a father has to shape him into a [TS]

  more interesting more dangerous more [TS]

  damaged person then [TS]

  William chatter in some ways this movie [TS]

  uh you know the theme of this movie i [TS]

  would argue actually is is a willingness [TS]

  to sacrifice oneself and to place the [TS]

  needs of the many out in front of the [TS]

  needs of the fewer the one which is [TS]

  funny because that's that's from star [TS]

  trek to but that's not the theme of star [TS]

  trek to i would argue star trek to is [TS]

  about coming to grips with aging and the [TS]

  inevitability of mortality like all the [TS]

  Star Trek like well I mean that's [TS]

  actually one of the things that's [TS]

  interesting about this franchise now too [TS]

  is that they had old people you know [TS]

  agent people in all the rules so that [TS]

  was all about aging and now we've got [TS]

  young people in those same parts so it [TS]

  doesn't have to be about that there's [TS]

  not a lot of action franchises that have [TS]

  a cast bolstered by old people to when [TS]

  you think about it like it's unusual [TS]

  tired [TS]

  yes that's right that's a deception [TS]

  yippee-ki-yay card anyway uh what I like [TS]

  about about this this theme of sacrifice [TS]

  is that it gets to the heart of that [TS]

  Kirk not uh not accepting defeat and [TS]

  cheating the Kobayashi Maru and in this [TS]

  movie you know Kirk has to talk about [TS]

  sacrifice and Spock and con addresses it [TS]

  and in the end it's that you know that [TS]

  the challenge that's put to him by pike [TS]

  at the beginning and restated bike on [TS]

  which is when he says what would you not [TS]

  do for your family and in the end Kirk [TS]

  is put in a position where he has to [TS]

  make that choice and he does it he [TS]

  sacrifices himself for these things he's [TS]

  sacrificing himself to save his ship and [TS]

  to save his crew and that's a lie i [TS]

  agree with John I think that this is [TS]

  interesting material because it's seeing [TS]

  captain kirk learn things that I was not [TS]

  sure Katt Williams chapters captain Kurt [TS]

  learned yet rather than the getting old [TS]

  part we kind of have this as the growing [TS]

  up part right where you realize you [TS]

  can't always win [TS]

  you can't always come up with the plan [TS]

  that's going to get around all the [TS]

  obstacles you can always cheat fate [TS]

  essentially and I think that's it's a [TS]

  nice it's a nice it's a nice bookend in [TS]

  some ways to the older Star Trek films [TS]

  where it's you know you you're on the [TS]

  other side of that aging humph [TS]

  because Shatner's Kirk got to come of [TS]

  age with an intact set of parents in a [TS]

  Starfleet that was the gene roddenberry [TS]

  one where there's no money and [TS]

  everything you know everywhere all at [TS]

  peace and it's an exploratory thing [TS]

  whereas this kirk right away is it you [TS]

  know in a more damage situation and in [TS]

  the context of a Starfleet that is now [TS]

  you know 911 style militarized as a [TS]

  reaction to all the stuff that happened [TS]

  in the first movie which is no big theme [TS]

  of this movie as well [TS]

  yeah so he does not he he he's going to [TS]

  end up being shaped into a different [TS]

  person he just can't be that kind of [TS]

  la-dee-da kind of smaug I win everything [TS]

  and then think about my aging when i get [TS]

  the retirement age of the Shatner's Kirk [TS]

  go two planets and kiss all the alien [TS]

  girls [TS]

  yeah i mean like you said that hasn't it [TS]

  yes they haven't even started their [TS]

  five-year mission but you know in this [TS]

  movie right and it was going to be a 5 [TS]

  mission and they're dealing with like a [TS]

  militarized Starfleet which is very I [TS]

  mean I can understand why star trek [TS]

  people may not like this movie because [TS]

  it's not the Starks they remembered but [TS]

  it makes for much more interesting story [TS]

  telling [TS]

  yes and and i would argue makes for some [TS]

  interesting debates about its decisions [TS]

  the characters make which every time I [TS]

  hear somebody say oh it was just [TS]

  explosions in action and I remember when [TS]

  Star Trek used to be about issues it's [TS]

  like did you not see the movie did you [TS]

  not see spot talking about how drone [TS]

  strikes are immoral and did you not see [TS]

  the whole thing about a guy in command [TS]

  of the military trying to create a war [TS]

  I mean hello the pen and the following [TS]

  going back to sacrifice [TS]

  there's also that thread of everything [TS]

  that Admiral Marcus is going to [TS]

  sacrifice is is using as a sacrifice you [TS]

  know sending Kirk and you know in the [TS]

  incursion into the Klingon space and all [TS]

  that stuff is he's willing to sacrifice [TS]

  Kirk in the enterprise whether they want [TS]

  to or not right not himself right is the [TS]

  same thing with sun sending just sit on [TS]

  the edge of the neutral zone and fire [TS]

  tore your torpedoes to the Klingon [TS]

  homeworld it's you know the remote no [TS]

  risk versus the personal I great [TS]

  personal risk connection [TS]

  not to mention you get to as a bonus [TS]

  murder all the people who are actually [TS]

  interpret [TS]

  exactly hiding like well and this star [TS]

  trek home gets to the the sort of the [TS]

  root of one of my one of my frustrations [TS]

  with star trek over the years which is [TS]

  to say there's a such a heavy focus on [TS]

  the alien and it's not that you know [TS]

  there's an interesting things and [TS]

  there's very much all an ongoing threat [TS]

  and star trek about culture right like [TS]

  cultures meeting cultures having [TS]

  different cultures you know Leslie steps [TS]

  on a flower and gets put to death record [TS]

  and I think so but to me with a problem [TS]

  with that for me was always that [TS]

  yeah it's interesting from sort of [TS]

  Alpine sky theoretical point of view but [TS]

  a lot of times i found it hard to relate [TS]

  to [TS]

  I like a lot of people consider our spot [TS]

  and data you know such interesting major [TS]

  characters and although they don't feel [TS]

  emotion and what's that like and I [TS]

  always found them kind of boring because [TS]

  if that like that that's not a person I [TS]

  can relate to and I think that having a [TS]

  story that revolves largely around you [TS]

  know people for lack of better words [TS]

  rather than like guys in funny suits for [TS]

  guys with makeup on their foreheads it [TS]

  makes it more relatable story to me and [TS]

  makes it more interesting because no [TS]

  matter what happens in the future people [TS]

  are still fundamentally people like even [TS]

  if you end up in that future where [TS]

  there's no like money and everybody's [TS]

  happy and you don't there's still people [TS]

  who get pissed off and people who you [TS]

  know try to do other people and all that [TS]

  stuff and so you know rather than I [TS]

  guess maybe I'm being pessimistic and [TS]

  not wanting to see people's better [TS]

  nature I'll Roddenberry but like just [TS]

  the reality of it like look that people [TS]

  are always going to be Petty and cruel [TS]

  to a certain extent but they're also [TS]

  always going to be you know heroic and [TS]

  try to raise the rise to the occasion [TS]

  and that is something i can recognize [TS]

  and as a story i really enjoy that [TS]

  rotten berries future was a great tool [TS]

  to do actual science fiction because if [TS]

  you're going to like the thing was like [TS]

  put whitewash the the human stuff like [TS]

  we eventually evolved beyond that stuff [TS]

  but now let the better angels of our [TS]

  nature as exemplified by Starfleet land [TS]

  on other planets with other people and [TS]

  it's an even more challenging situation [TS]

  because you know attics you know it you [TS]

  get to sell twat you get to tell [TS]

  Twilight Zone / real so you know [TS]

  speculative sci-fi type stories without [TS]

  being bogged down by all of the petty [TS]

  human type things but at a certain point [TS]

  like especially for star wars fan you [TS]

  find that a little bit of antiseptic and [TS]

  you want something else i mean it's it's [TS]

  the reason i guess they had the [TS]

  wherewithal to make Spock half-human [TS]

  because a full Vulcan or data or [TS]

  whatever it's like yeah alright you can [TS]

  do a few things with that but you spoke [TS]

  without inner struggle is like you know [TS]

  so the inner struggle makes makes a big [TS]

  difference [TS]

  yeah then this one like it's okay I like [TS]

  this one because it the run Barry run [TS]

  has to exist as a contrast to this one [TS]

  because it's like what if humanity [TS]

  didn't evolve up out of that you know [TS]

  sort of pizza were all in into this [TS]

  enlightened state because we got [TS]

  sidetracked by these things that always [TS]

  sidetrack us like you know oh well [TS]

  suddenly there's danger in our fear [TS]

  response kicks in and you start making [TS]

  bad decisions and you know good people [TS]

  have to fight against them whatever and [TS]

  i thought this movie speaking of a peter [TS]

  weller it's not miyazaki level here but [TS]

  they did a reasonable job not making him [TS]

  you know just crazy ridiculous bad guy [TS]

  who just wants to do terrible things [TS]

  like he believes more or less that he's [TS]

  doing the right thing that kind of lives [TS]

  at the animal right at the end he's a [TS]

  little more seat scenery-chewing but [TS]

  you're right he's got he's got a [TS]

  perspective right he's totally got a [TS]

  perspective right everyone has their [TS]

  reasons right and he and begin the movie [TS]

  has reasons he's not just like you know [TS]

  rubbing his hands together twirling his [TS]

  moustache and the Klingons are even in [TS]

  traditional star trek Lord they are not [TS]

  nice [TS]

  in the original series so they are a big [TS]

  threat it he says war is inevitable [TS]

  cycle yeah war with the Klingons another [TS]

  exactly is gonna happen [TS]

  what do you think's cap bomb all the [TS]

  Klingons Jesus we have to we have the [TS]

  preemptive strike before they get us [TS]

  only patrick stewart could bring these [TS]

  two races together only Nixon could go [TS]

  to children [TS]

  originally the topic of this podcast was [TS]

  going to be about the star trek movies [TS]

  vs Star Trek TV and which will be a [TS]

  great topic and we'll do it sometime but [TS]

  something John brought up there i would [TS]

  say is is part of the interesting thing [TS]

  here is that it movies have big budgets [TS]

  and need to bring in big audiences and [TS]

  it only can tell two hours of story and [TS]

  TV series can tell these little [TS]

  stories and then move on to the next [TS]

  planet and star trek was conceived as a [TS]

  TV series and it's become a movie series [TS]

  and even in the classic Star Trek movies [TS]

  it there was struggle there because some [TS]

  of the episodes are some of the movies [TS]

  that don't work so well read kind of [TS]

  like TV episodes really long TV episodes [TS]

  and satellites or or involving aliens [TS]

  who don't age because they live in a [TS]

  magical planet where they don't age but [TS]

  the notarized plastic surgery leads are [TS]

  very angry about anyway we'll get there [TS]

  in a later episode but I i think that's [TS]

  I think that's part of it too is that is [TS]

  that a movie like these JJ Abrams movies [TS]

  it's going to be a big-budget action [TS]

  movie it it kind of has to be and then [TS]

  the question is what else is in there [TS]

  and how effective it is it as an [TS]

  adventure movie and doesn't make you [TS]

  think a little bit and just have [TS]

  interesting character dynamics and and [TS]

  that's why I really like this movie is [TS]

  even though it it's got things you can [TS]

  pick apart and especially if you want to [TS]

  try to find fault you can find some [TS]

  fault but I enjoyed the whole thing and [TS]

  came out really you know excited and [TS]

  energized and happy and have a great had [TS]

  a great ride and when I thought about it [TS]

  more [TS]

  it unfolded more but it's not going to [TS]

  be like a hundred episodes of a TV [TS]

  series it just can't be it's a two-hour [TS]

  action summer blockbuster and and it has [TS]

  to play by those rules to a certain [TS]

  extent [TS]

  speaking of finding fault i was telling [TS]

  a damn Miller tonight that I don't know [TS]

  this is a mistake but it may be a [TS]

  mistake for that from the perspective [TS]

  this podcast but I'm seeing a lot of [TS]

  these movies with my son who is nine now [TS]

  I and seeing this movie or any movie [TS]

  like it with my son [TS]

  I'm not gonna say completely blocks out [TS]

  my ability to look to look objectively [TS]

  at the movie but like i mentioned this [TS]

  about cars before to the pixar movie is [TS]

  this your kryptonite [TS]

  if you are next to a nine-year-old like [TS]

  I took him to see this mean i showed him [TS]

  the 2009 version i got a chance to watch [TS]

  it again because I thought you would [TS]

  like it and he did and I took him to see [TS]

  this movie and this movie was so perfect [TS]

  like this could be his like his star [TS]

  wars movie was so perfect for him [TS]

  because there was nothing it's really [TS]

  gory like it wasn't too scary and just [TS]

  the action scenes were just unbelievable [TS]

  I mean I enjoyed it too but I'm thinking [TS]

  to myself wait a second [TS]

  did you because I came out of that movie [TS]

  thinking it was just fantastic like and [TS]

  it's not saying the critical thinking [TS]

  part of my brains have been disengaged [TS]

  it's all things wrong with it but I just [TS]

  cannot come down off of that high and [TS]

  half of it was because i was sitting [TS]

  next to a nine-year-old all-time who is [TS]

  just you know floored by the whole movie [TS]

  like I was telling them he came to the [TS]

  we saw the movie and for the next three [TS]

  days he would come from school going to [TS]

  the computer i'm going to trailers apple [TS]

  com watch the star trek into darkness [TS]

  trailer over and over and over again you [TS]

  know you you can forgive a lot if you're [TS]

  having fun and this is a not to call [TS]

  back to what is one of my least favorite [TS]

  episodes of the uncomfortable but when [TS]

  we did the Avengers you know it was [TS]

  clear that it was an Andy and I code [TS]

  didn't have fun when you seen that movie [TS]

  and he saw all the flaws i would argue [TS]

  that most movies have lots of things you [TS]

  could pick apart if you aren't having a [TS]

  good time and you forgive them if you [TS]

  are and I know that seems sort of [TS]

  strange but I think it's true that I i [TS]

  will forgive a lot if in the end i [TS]

  really enjoyed it and and I'll and if i [TS]

  am not having fun i will sit there and [TS]

  get very angry and I will tear [TS]

  everything apart and and and you know [TS]

  start the star trek movies and its [TS]

  target a lot like the Hulk that I'm like [TS]

  the whole don't make me angry [TS]

  no I just I I'm always angry damn that's [TS]

  our secret it is the other thing about [TS]

  into darkness though that like i was i [TS]

  was actually mention Andy it is well [TS]

  it's a movie like I know you guys only [TS]

  dinner together without me [TS]

  we were talking about the Avengers to [TS]

  begin time we got to really enhance a [TS]

  little bit but you know and and what i [TS]

  was saying was that like it [TS]

  the movie also need something exemplary [TS]

  to to bring it up in into darkness what [TS]

  I thought it was was the dialogue in the [TS]

  script I thought they were there were [TS]

  scenes that if you could describe them [TS]

  to me in the abstract i would say that's [TS]

  gonna be death on the screen like you [TS]

  know Spock and and her are gonna be in a [TS]

  fight and oh yeah Kirk is going to be [TS]

  there in like like oh that's going to be [TS]

  terrible or whatever but they pulled it [TS]

  off like it was just you know three or [TS]

  four lines all good lines well-acted [TS]

  provide like they were able to flesh out [TS]

  that relationship in the midst of an [TS]

  action movie in a way that was not [TS]

  cloying that was clever and that felt [TS]

  meaningful and like the same thing if [TS]

  you describe me out in the new star trek [TS]

  movies sparking are going [TS]

  we're gonna have a thing and you're like [TS]

  what what wait a second what and I [TS]

  totally believe that relationship on [TS]

  screen now like I accept it as canon in [TS]

  this new universe it does not bother me [TS]

  in the slightest and I think it adds to [TS]

  the movie and I never would have [TS]

  predicted that so I think that this [TS]

  second movie here is it has removed most [TS]

  of the goofy silly things that I didn't [TS]

  like about the first movie added in [TS]

  their place like good I mean I you know [TS]

  I like moonlighting to like so I know [TS]

  you have a little silly space between [TS]

  people that are that illuminate their [TS]

  characters and surrounded by what i [TS]

  think is a perfectly competent space [TS]

  action movie as Dan said probably one of [TS]

  the best Star Wars movies it's coming [TS]

  out many many years I you know how can I [TS]

  not like that like i do see the flaws [TS]

  now stepping away from it and some of [TS]

  the the shine is worn off or whatever [TS]

  but the good stuff just so vastly [TS]

  outweighs that you know I still know [TS]

  those characters and having those [TS]

  characters you you you know there's [TS]

  there's good dialogue you're absolutely [TS]

  right one of my favorites is when Kirk [TS]

  who are talking in the turbolift about [TS]

  Spock and he apologized because your [TS]

  boyfriend's body is like that was [TS]

  unprofessional and she's no you're right [TS]

  and then the line that he says when when [TS]

  we saw you having a fight and then he is [TS]

  that moment where he says oh my god what [TS]

  must that be like just is that how would [TS]

  that be to be a fight with Spock or they [TS]

  can go is so funny just so great in the [TS]

  door Harvey staying right here right [TS]

  already yes I asked a question about [TS]

  whether her still going mad at him and [TS]

  it sucks and it says something like [TS]

  uncertain which works as that which [TS]

  works as a logical Spock line but also [TS]

  works as a you know rides I'm knowing [TS]

  between friends statement about ya and [TS]

  of course the line that my wife and I [TS]

  have sounded surprisingly quoted back to [TS]

  each other since we saw this movie over [TS]

  and over again is no more metaphors [TS]

  that's an order [TS]

  i wonder if-if i should spy so the [TS]

  second time because i'm a gigantic nerd [TS]

  the second time I saw this movie I took [TS]

  notes for the podcast for the podcast [TS]

  sure did you have your Starfleet [TS]

  technical data on your lap you have one [TS]

  of those pens with a light yeah I didn't [TS]

  have one of those pens with the light so [TS]

  and I didn't have any reference material [TS]

  with me but i did my handwriting is so [TS]

  terrible that in absolute darkness [TS]

  it's no worse it's amazing how you would [TS]

  you say you went into dark notes into [TS]

  darkness nemesis Tom Scott uh-huh so I'm [TS]

  gonna I'm gonna obviously this is [TS]

  chronological because i took the notes [TS]

  as I was watching movie but if there are [TS]

  parts where everybody wants to jump in [TS]

  and talk about it will just by quickly [TS]

  step through the movie I want to start [TS]

  with the opening sequence which is James [TS]

  bond-like in a way right you have this [TS]

  fun action thing that that opens it up [TS]

  plus it gives you that flavor of the [TS]

  original TV series like they're on a [TS]

  mission where they're aliens and they're [TS]

  going to violate the prime directive but [TS]

  i wanted to point out to watching it the [TS]

  second time i was thinking this block is [TS]

  risking his life to save this planet [TS]

  that there's a parallel there between [TS]

  this planet and Vulcan which they didn't [TS]

  save and they're trying to save these [TS]

  people [TS]

  it's it's a call back it's a movie [TS]

  filled with callbacks to star trek to [TS]

  i'll grant you what's interesting here [TS]

  is that something I hadn't thought of [TS]

  originally instructor to we there they [TS]

  faked the death of Spock and the rest of [TS]

  the crew in the Kobayashi Maru at the [TS]

  beginning he so here Spock almost dies [TS]

  again at the very beginning of the [TS]

  second star trek movie I thought that [TS]

  was kind of knowing and obviously this [TS]

  is also sparks moment of self-sacrifice [TS]

  and duty where he finally accepts his [TS]

  fate it's interesting that he is kind of [TS]

  you know really like coming to do it [TS]

  he's like okay this is the moment this [TS]

  is my big moment I can just embrace [TS]

  death and he you know he shows he's very [TS]

  common sense of self and he shuts off [TS]

  his emotions and then they save them [TS]

  obviously but it was interesting that he [TS]

  was he was kind of like almost eager to [TS]

  to die in that located oh you may be [TS]

  projecting yeah well no I think there's [TS]

  a point where the the again that sort of [TS]

  if you want to play with destiny or that [TS]

  there are things that are commonalities [TS]

  between the two timelines I think that's [TS]

  interesting i think it's interesting in [TS]

  this jumping forward a little bit but [TS]

  you know in in star trek to I think you [TS]

  know Kirk ass to come to terms with sort [TS]

  of being bumped upstairs right because [TS]

  he's an admiral [TS]

  yes and and instead we have Kirk here [TS]

  busted down and taking off the you know [TS]

  off the captain's chair so that you know [TS]

  again interesting divergence in a Star [TS]

  Trek the motion [TS]

  picture reference of Pikes outfit is [TS]

  basically the outfits from Star Trek the [TS]

  motion picture and when he comes to tell [TS]

  Kirk what's going on in the bar he says [TS]

  they gave her back to me which is the [TS]

  line that's that's a line that Kirk says [TS]

  in Star Trek the motion picture so the [TS]

  references don't just start start and [TS]

  stop with wrath of khan there are [TS]

  references throughout i'm going to talk [TS]

  about the enterprise underwater though [TS]

  yeah we should you're right you're right [TS]

  now it is airtight should because it [TS]

  goes to space such a base has no [TS]

  pressure and and there's pressure in the [TS]

  also within the atmosphere although [TS]

  there are others it was built in the [TS]

  atmosphere was built the atmosphere and [TS]

  we've seen like Star Trek Voyager the [TS]

  Voyager could land on a planet and in [TS]

  tomorrow is yesterday the classic [TS]

  episode they're down with clouds when [TS]

  they kidnap that poor fighter pilot so [TS]

  but we haven't seen the enterprise [TS]

  underwater before and why is it [TS]

  underwater because it's cool because [TS]

  cool that's why it's underwater they [TS]

  want that scene of them coming out of [TS]

  the water i would look very cool but as [TS]

  I was thinking also think it makes no [TS]

  sense to hide your your spaceship in the [TS]

  water but i will give them that but i [TS]

  have to quibble with it [TS]

  listen I i like the idea that it's [TS]

  probably discourteous like you know [TS]

  what's a great idea we could put it [TS]

  underwater and there was like no no I'm [TS]

  the captain put it underwater it could [TS]

  have explained it away with boring [TS]

  dialogue but they could have been like [TS]

  well the and atmosphere is ionized the [TS]

  transporters won't work so we had to [TS]

  bring the ship down but we don't want [TS]

  anybody to see it but they gonna say [TS]

  that's so boring that you know you could [TS]

  say that there's a magnetic field they [TS]

  can't use the transporters and surely [TS]

  some reason that just inspires don't [TS]

  work [TS]

  forgive your keebler yeah well they hid [TS]

  they hid the enterprising the rings of [TS]

  Saturn in the first movie which also [TS]

  makes 0 so yeah alright little Titan's [TS]

  atmosphere but yeah whatever it was you [TS]

  have evidence that none none of these [TS]

  things make sense from a space science [TS]

  increases corner they like the [TS]

  enterprise coming out of things it was [TS]

  cool but I just have to say I think [TS]

  there are probably better solutions to [TS]

  that same problem what the solution to [TS]

  having a cool opening scene to a movie [TS]

  that's on a planet that's that's the [TS]

  problem they were self-help maybe they [TS]

  should have hidden it in matara nebula [TS]

  when we're back on earth we see Captain [TS]

  Kirk making out with a couple of cat [TS]

  ladies and as you do and it when you go [TS]

  back when you watch this again sometime [TS]

  the beginning of that scene I i could it [TS]

  could be saurian brandy or something but [TS]

  it looks kinda like there's a space bong [TS]

  in that apartment i'm just saying watch [TS]

  for it all bonds are spaced think there [TS]

  might be a space planning i don't know [TS]

  i'm not i'm not a I'm not a recreational [TS]

  drug user but I'm just saying [TS]

  are you a space mark there may be a [TS]

  spaceport in the cat girl's apartment or [TS]

  Kirk's or current Sparx you lit up it's [TS]

  an artifact of cultural significance to [TS]

  her race pace yeah totally insensitive [TS]

  sorry catgirls sorry half-naked cat [TS]

  ladies 98% naked cat ladies let's let's [TS]

  see the the death theme starts with the [TS]

  his argument with Pike where where Kirk [TS]

  is arrogant and says how many died that [TS]

  1i didn't lose one person nobody dies [TS]

  today is that's really a do we skip over [TS]

  it or is it subsequently the Mickey [TS]

  Mickey kills much people [TS]

  yeah I think that's it was coming up [TS]

  this week I think that's next right I [TS]

  thought it was right after the show [TS]

  Mickey Mickey from my also the [TS]

  cumberbatch fans next to me when he came [TS]

  on-screen they're like it's Mickey like [TS]

  to start laughing and i said that i said [TS]

  we put on weight [TS]

  well it's there was 10 years ago the key [TS]

  from from from Doctor Who and said it [TS]

  was daughter is dying and Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch comes to him and here's your [TS]

  self-sacrifice again you know he will he [TS]

  will save his daughter in exchange for [TS]

  him but you know sacrificing himself and [TS]

  his honor and blowing up the the [TS]

  Starfleet facility and he takes the deal [TS]

  here's the thing about that that segment [TS]

  of the movie because when I was this one [TS]

  early on the movie when I all my [TS]

  critical thinking was still engaged and [TS]

  i was thinking like this this plotline [TS]

  of this guy who's going to do this thing [TS]

  is basically gonna be a pawn of content [TS]

  to fulfill this part of the pot there's [TS]

  not room in this movie for you to [TS]

  actually do that so the way they chose [TS]

  to fit in was to almost do it is like a [TS]

  silent movie where there's almost no [TS]

  dialogue like Mickey is there is great [TS]

  music healing and Mickey right but like [TS]

  they basically did it like they said [TS]

  look we have enough time like three [TS]

  lines there's no way we can come up with [TS]

  three lines that do [TS]

  nothing but cause damage this so let's [TS]

  just play it like a silent movie show [TS]

  him show the six dollars shows just have [TS]

  you know two lines with him and con and [TS]

  it it's the like I don't know if it [TS]

  worked that well even in the silent mode [TS]

  but I applaud them for finding a [TS]

  creative solution to getting these plot [TS]

  points and not exercising that plotline [TS]

  entirely because i was another option [TS]

  because you got a whole lot about the [TS]

  movie to fit in here but to have it in [TS]

  there and still have to be affecting and [TS]

  moving and interesting and exciting when [TS]

  the little ring blows up and all that [TS]

  stuff with almost no dialogue it was it [TS]

  was kinda like the opening section on up [TS]

  you know with no speaking part i was [TS]

  thinking it's almost a montage to music [TS]

  and i agree i tanned in Jason mentioned [TS]

  the music there and I know a couple [TS]

  people were mentioned on twitter before [TS]

  we start talking about this that they [TS]

  want to talk about the music i will say [TS]

  that that q is very it's very unlike the [TS]

  rest of the music from this movie or the [TS]

  previous yes you get this piano you soft [TS]

  piano music playing and yet it's [TS]

  incredibly effective if for what it is [TS]

  and it's one of the cues that stands out [TS]

  more to me in this movie much as I like [TS]

  a lot of the cno's work for the score is [TS]

  pretty good especially some of the main [TS]

  themes but I'm sort of mixed on his work [TS]

  overall yeah he he this is i read a [TS]

  review of the the inductor soundtrack [TS]

  but said it's like the expansion pack [TS]

  for the original soundtrack and that's [TS]

  about right right i mean it's he's gonna [TS]

  go use his themes that he already had [TS]

  and he's added some some more in and I [TS]

  you know I bought the soundtrack and I [TS]

  like it but it is in some ways it's much [TS]

  more than saying it's hampering some [TS]

  ways by the same also by the problem [TS]

  with the original which was that if you [TS]

  bought the original soundtrack there was [TS]

  actually that deluxe edition i think ben [TS]

  boychuk actually turned me on to that [TS]

  was there was like a double disc version [TS]

  which is much better because it's [TS]

  actually flushed out rather than being [TS]

  these vary at times random and [TS]

  disjointed Q's right but overall I mean [TS]

  he doesn't really hold up if you put him [TS]

  up against someone to me like John [TS]

  Williams where you can listen to a john [TS]

  williams sku in a vacuum and it's a [TS]

  fantastic piece of music whether or not [TS]

  it's applied to film where is the sequel [TS]

  like there's no Imperial March in this [TS]

  movie like it you know follow up the [TS]

  soundtrack to star wars with a [TS]

  soundtrack that has some song is iconic [TS]

  the imperial march like that's a tall [TS]

  order and I think he's doing well to [TS]

  have like the first movie I think he's [TS]

  landed solidly on both feet with a theme [TS]

  that was both like a recognizable star [TS]

  trek but not simply a restatement of the [TS]

  original song and that you know that [TS]

  segues into it in the end is your little [TS]

  reward and they just continue that in a [TS]

  competent manner in this movie i think [TS]

  is a reasonable achievement and it may [TS]

  be too much to ask for him to like me to [TS]

  do throw another amazing song in their [TS]

  out of nowhere most star trek movie [TS]

  scores have found a you know their take [TS]

  on a Star Trek theme and then when [TS]

  they've done other Star Trek movies they [TS]

  use that again that was true with with [TS]

  your Goldsmith and was true with James [TS]

  Horner and and you know that's sort of [TS]

  been how they do it [TS]

  yes so some nice work but overall maybe [TS]

  not that it does a great supporting job [TS]

  yeah I like the I like a Star Trek theme [TS]

  a lot like oh yeah i agree we're here is [TS]

  the best part of it [TS]

  yeah I i love how his Star Trek theme [TS]

  weaves in and out of the original theme [TS]

  yes and it I mean it just fits and I [TS]

  liked hearing that here too [TS]

  I and again i might think the original [TS]

  film had a better score but i just love [TS]

  how they weave in and out of each other [TS]

  yeah i mean pic yeah I was a big demand [TS]

  yeah I mentioned uh that this i think a [TS]

  proposal absolute two or three whatever [TS]

  the one we did with Ben was own moves [TS]

  that movie scores that actually Star [TS]

  Trek the motion picture [TS]

  despite being kind of a terrible [TS]

  invisible movie The Times has a [TS]

  fantastic sore because it's your goals [TS]

  with who is too is a master and this to [TS]

  me if you put these two things exchequer [TS]

  I'd say well i really like to quino's [TS]

  theme but a goldsmith i would have to [TS]

  give props and just like every every [TS]

  piece on that works so well even if you [TS]

  don't care about the movie like you can [TS]

  I listen to that score sometimes and of [TS]

  itself and i haven't seen the Star Trek [TS]

  the motion picture and 15 20 years and I [TS]

  still know i can still evocative and it [TS]

  still works the problem of the Goldsmith [TS]

  stuff is that is that he scored star [TS]

  trek one and struck five right and so [TS]

  there's good music and bad movies and [TS]

  then made and then it was the next [TS]

  generation theme which means it's sort [TS]

  of like marked for all time as being the [TS]

  starter [TS]

  the next generation theme so that they [TS]

  couldn't they couldn't reference that in [TS]

  a movie like this because it's you know [TS]

  it was taken away and it's fine to [TS]

  canvas again his theme is is excellent i [TS]

  really like it it's very catchy it does [TS]

  a great job of setting the scene and the [TS]

  tone and is very distinct and I think [TS]

  David was saying making a point [TS]

  it's it's clearly a star trek the more [TS]

  clearly a theme that has like a modules [TS]

  to the past but is is is appropriate for [TS]

  this different universe and timeline [TS]

  that we're in a little more Marshall [TS]

  it's got a little more of a march going [TS]

  on you know there's there's a little [TS]

  more adventure element to it rather than [TS]

  being sort of sixties and sci-fi right [TS]

  now and then it's also got that mournful [TS]

  element because it's you know it's like [TS]

  I think the first time you start to hear [TS]

  is when Kirk's father dies and then it's [TS]

  the opening of the original one arm as [TS]

  it it's just lovely [TS]

  one of the things I really like about [TS]

  gia quino's scores for this and for the [TS]

  mission impossible 3 and 4 guess it's [TS]

  not really called for Ghost Protocol [TS]

  whatever is that they they pay really [TS]

  nice homage to the original themes and [TS]

  the original styles and again they're [TS]

  there maybe not cohesive scores that you [TS]

  would just listen to on their own but [TS]

  the different elements are really nice [TS]

  and they fit and yeah they just sort of [TS]

  fit these different elements of the [TS]

  story especially mission impossible i [TS]

  think those actually might be better [TS]

  scores than the the track ones [TS]

  hello again this i love the trek theme [TS]

  better than anything in the Mission [TS]

  Impossible movies there's a difference i [TS]

  think with a difference in when you with [TS]

  this type of movie they were talking [TS]

  about where the music is underneath the [TS]

  action and goes along with it and [TS]

  there's a switch that happens when [TS]

  the movie changes from like an action [TS]

  scene that is scored with music to be [TS]

  scene that is scored with music to be [TS]

  II a music video for an awesome song way [TS]

  that that switch happens when it's like [TS]

  an iconic theme or when you picture like [TS]

  it's almost as if the movie was [TS]

  choreographed to music like the music [TS]

  came first and runners made a bunch of [TS]

  spaceships that did the others in [TS]

  certain scenes you know have that I'm [TS]

  just talk about Luke Skywalker you know [TS]

  dual sons seen or whatever that is like [TS]

  it [TS]

  shooting a music video for that for that [TS]

  you know swelling movement in this thing [TS]

  right or even if it's just something as [TS]

  simple as like that the music we can all [TS]

  hear when when Lucas aiming a photon [TS]

  torpedo haha haha I'm revoking your star [TS]

  wars cut [TS]

  yeah I have a crossing the stream better [TS]

  know it into the exhaust port like we [TS]

  can all hear that you know and or any of [TS]

  these things work and I another example [TS]

  is not from science fiction is like the [TS]

  movie Goodfellas where it is it took [TS]

  extensive use of pop culture songs that [TS]

  we know and they're so dominant in our [TS]

  minds that again the movie becomes let's [TS]

  just have some video to go along with [TS]

  this great song and like make it all [TS]

  work together and it's not a crime for [TS]

  that not to happen but I mean I think it [TS]

  was almost a conscious choice not to do [TS]

  that and I think back to you again be [TS]

  the word list Mickey bring blowing up [TS]

  scenes which were not just scored in a [TS]

  more subdued kind of like the way you [TS]

  might do a drama or or something but [TS]

  also like shot they were more dark and [TS]

  depressing as England right whatever but [TS]

  Randy and overcast then and kind of like [TS]

  different like when is the last time you [TS]

  saw some ice a science-fiction movie or [TS]

  a star trek for your particular really [TS]

  commit to a mood like that like three [TS]

  scenes in Iran mean I was president has [TS]

  there been a star trek movie that has [TS]

  been that dark in that segment both [TS]

  literally and like you know figuratively [TS]

  and emotionally I I when I think back to [TS]

  all the Star Trek movies I think of when [TS]

  they're around the campfire in Yosemite [TS]

  and start 45 that's yeah that's right [TS]

  that's that's a dark moment for other [TS]

  reasons its grip [TS]

  I don't know about dark yeah deep space [TS]

  nine is not a movie but it's pretty [TS]

  disturbing but it's regarding the movie [TS]

  in the movie franchises it's it's a butt [TS]

  shot like a TV sets and yeah maybe [TS]

  something in first contest yeah when the [TS]

  card is upsetting he breaks his little [TS]

  ships Marianne dark yet the mind must be [TS]

  drawn here [TS]

  yeah okay back to the back to the movie [TS]

  here [TS]

  contact john harrison sorry i was hired [TS]

  Harris uh attacks the the meeting event [TS]

  is being held where they have everybody [TS]

  which is apparently a godfather three [TS]

  yeah Carol you're gonna reference a [TS]

  Godfather movie don't make up of three [TS]

  all the five ships are there and pike [TS]

  dies which is very sad and Kirk is very [TS]

  clever and sort of makes cons little [TS]

  shuttle sorry carrison Harrison's little [TS]

  shuttle blow up we should we should talk [TS]

  about the lacs security on Starfleet [TS]

  headquarters and thursday and wartime [TS]

  and its archives and that's so good [TS]

  well he's got a he's got clearance [TS]

  obviously but he's he's out there [TS]

  shooting stuff for a long time and [TS]

  nobody nothin nobody knows by now [TS]

  there's a couple guys rifles right who [TS]

  get your please be sure we have no [TS]

  weapons [TS]

  that's right i have lots of weapons that [TS]

  are so my next note is actually about [TS]

  the about the torpedoes that Scotty [TS]

  doesn't want to have the torpedoes on [TS]

  the ship and he quits and then Spock [TS]

  argue very strongly against the the [TS]

  drone strikes against Harrison on on on [TS]

  Chronos the Klingon homeworld which they [TS]

  misspelled by the way [TS]

  well that's the human spelling humans [TS]

  it's translates transliterated you don't [TS]

  know Klingon yet they haven't learned it [TS]

  yet except for oh noes lordosis that's [TS]

  it you which is funny because it started [TS]

  in Star Trek six were shining and she [TS]

  Klingon but yes when I saw this in 3d i [TS]

  noticed that the lens flares are also in [TS]

  3d and its really doesn't make any sense [TS]

  and it's very weird [TS]

  okay I don't mind the lens flares in 2d [TS]

  and 3d I don't see why they're there [TS]

  it's very bad again I mentioned uh [TS]

  there's that great scene on the bridge [TS]

  where McCoy is repeating metaphorically [TS]

  sort of given before and Curtis had [TS]

  mouth and orders him to stop having [TS]

  metaphors which I i made me laugh so the [TS]

  Klingons we should talk about that we [TS]

  have we have what i would say is maybe [TS]

  the most unnecessary action sequence in [TS]

  the movie which is the the spaceship [TS]

  chase on the Klingon [TS]

  planet where they go through the narrow [TS]

  space and will fit will fit that's very [TS]

  it's very Star Wars actually sits yeah [TS]

  just wanting talking straight out Empire [TS]

  yeah but not as well because I don't [TS]

  know it advances any of the characters [TS]

  to be in that scene like yeah it's the [TS]

  only thing is that was under descent [TS]

  they have good dialogue but then in the [TS]

  action sequence there's kind of nothing [TS]

  and they just trying to let off a couple [TS]

  of zingers but like you not to give an [TS]

  example from Star Wars like wen Han [TS]

  Solo's being chased around by the Empire [TS]

  and going through all the asteroids and [TS]

  everything what's at stake is his like [TS]

  he's trying to impress a girl basically [TS]

  like he doesn't want to look like he's [TS]

  the guy who screwed up and like you know [TS]

  it's he feels pressure to successfully [TS]

  escaped for reasons that have nothing to [TS]

  do with his life and like that that's [TS]

  the subtext of that whole chase sequence [TS]

  or subtext this one is like he's going [TS]

  down on the planet where something's [TS]

  gonna happen with a guy I gotta get down [TS]

  there any and in between this chase [TS]

  scene takes place [TS]

  yeah it didn't it didn't really work [TS]

  also i don't really understand there's [TS]

  this whole thing about it's a it's a an [TS]

  empty part of the planet where there was [TS]

  a disaster and the moon is kind of blown [TS]

  up which is I guess the star trek six [TS]

  reference to inconvenience but just [TS]

  really make much sense it's never [TS]

  explained why have they abandoned why [TS]

  the Klingons abandoned part of their [TS]

  planets value if the moon is crashing [TS]

  into your city you'll probably been like [TS]

  yeah but every three days it resets the [TS]

  right when you come between remuneration [TS]

  photo city doesn't push this and I I [TS]

  question Klingon architecture of [TS]

  architecture [TS]

  yeah the city is where he's he's the [TS]

  ship is going through these things it [TS]

  doesn't it I found it very confusing [TS]

  yeah ya think [TS]

  although i did i do like the the look of [TS]

  the Klingon bird-of-prey are or whatever [TS]

  they are they're little flyer a little [TS]

  security flyer things but they've got [TS]

  that they've got that sent burp redesign [TS]

  yeah and then and so then they end up [TS]

  down on the planet and her goes out and [TS]

  I think it's a nice scene where Kirk [TS]

  although he does a little late is get up [TS]

  the guns was like okay she's gonna go [TS]

  talk to them here your guns from a butt [TS]

  and then there's a fire fight because [TS]

  Klingons are warlike and they don't like [TS]

  to listen to people and and harrison job [TS]

  shoots him up and kills them all and [TS]

  then add as a thank you [TS]

  Curtis I he's going to give him lots of [TS]

  punches yeah that makes sense and i [TS]

  actually thought this was not only you [TS]

  know obviously showing that he is a [TS]

  Superman he's got these amazing [TS]

  abilities because he liked the jumps [TS]

  like 15 feet at one point she kills all [TS]

  the Klingons and that better than one [TS]

  Kurt punches him [TS]

  it has no effect and I wrote down on my [TS]

  little notepad revenge punches do no [TS]

  good [TS]

  revenge is pointless this is an [TS]

  important lesson for Captain Kirk to [TS]

  learn don't punch revenge bunches [TS]

  ineffective also convery powerful [TS]

  although if that was a regular guy those [TS]

  punches would have been effective [TS]

  yes if if he had just placed his fingers [TS]

  together perhaps maybe and used it both [TS]

  his hands I think that a little bit more [TS]

  fiber pistol-whipping with the phaser i [TS]

  did like seeing the batlets in battle [TS]

  oh yeah that was nice touch ok so they [TS]

  take they take John Harrison yes back to [TS]

  the enterprise and put him in the brig [TS]

  and which is kind of a neat it's kind of [TS]

  a neat set and there's like the little [TS]

  hole that you can move around that way [TS]

  hasn't seen his arm through which is [TS]

  kind of future ii and he's he's very [TS]

  Hannibal Lecter e in that scene to you [TS]

  know he's standing tall and marching [TS]

  around and he's like behind bars and yet [TS]

  you're still really terrified of him [TS]

  he's he's definitely a caged animal [TS]

  which I liked [TS]

  it's pretty bad assignment forever has [TS]

  to sit in that little desk in the Brig [TS]

  well just write yeah that ignore [TS]

  everything that's happening [TS]

  yeah like the guy and then the alien [TS]

  who's got the funny head and they just [TS]

  they're just gonna sit there and just [TS]

  just wait just something that you guys [TS]

  in here yeah yeah that's scary guy might [TS]

  break out so don't don't let him do that [TS]

  we meet I guess we did this earlier but [TS]

  the this is where Carol Marcus becomes [TS]

  more important cocks and and this is [TS]

  another one of my again if I'm going to [TS]

  live i love this movie but i'm going to [TS]

  list one of my problems with it i don't [TS]

  see the point of Carol Marcus in this [TS]

  movie she comes on under assumed name [TS]

  because she wants to find out what her [TS]

  dad is doing ok and but she doesn't [TS]

  what does she do in this movie is she's [TS]

  upon at one point in the end game [TS]

  yeah but it's not necessary I I felt [TS]

  like she was not a necessary character [TS]

  while she is necessary for carbon [TS]

  eventually but not [TS]

  this movie she made a spot jealous she's [TS]

  she's there for the underwear so that [TS]

  seemed doesn't make any sense let me let [TS]

  me ask if you guys can explain this to [TS]

  me she and Kirk like go to a [TS]

  shuttlecraft that doesn't go anywhere [TS]

  and she tells him to not turn around and [TS]

  she said she'd like takes off her [TS]

  clothes and it's just in her underwear [TS]

  and then and then they go back to the [TS]

  bridge [TS]

  it doesn't I it doesn't make any sense [TS]

  are both i think i was his name [TS]

  Lindelof didn't authorize already [TS]

  apologized as as well he should I think [TS]

  that's progress progress will eventually [TS]

  be not having seems like that but the [TS]

  intermediate step is having the scene [TS]

  like that and then feeling embarrassed [TS]

  about it and making a public statement [TS]

  that you apologized for later and the [TS]

  best you could say for it is that at [TS]

  least it was brief [TS]

  I have no problem with the cat girls [TS]

  because they're in there naked and he's [TS]

  naked and they're enjoying themselves [TS]

  and good for them but this is like why [TS]

  there's no reason for it now it's [TS]

  embarrassing [TS]

  I can cut that out of the blu-ray [TS]

  release yeah the Phantom at it will take [TS]

  care of that it headed into darkness [TS]

  whatever that is so we end up i'm [TS]

  skipping some stuff because you know it [TS]

  was dark and I didn't want to write a [TS]

  lot I i wanted to talk about the the the [TS]

  Vengeance i think it is the u.s. fringes [TS]

  yeah Admiral Marcus ship which Scotty [TS]

  goes and finds they call i am using seen [TS]

  again worker call Scotty and Scotty's in [TS]

  downtown san francisco at a at a club [TS]

  Bob you know with with his little buddy [TS]

  cancer and he gets a call and once his [TS]

  help and and of course he does it and he [TS]

  ends up finding that that over and [TS]

  Jupiter behind the moon at Jupiter [TS]

  they're building this giant warship I do [TS]

  like the contrast thats painted a few [TS]

  points in the movie of that the [TS]

  enterprise is not even though it gets in [TS]

  big battles in these big action movies [TS]

  it's not it's an explorer ship we see it [TS]

  saving trying to save aliens on a [TS]

  far-off planet at the beginning it's not [TS]

  lower ship it can be a submarine but [TS]

  it's it's not a warship it's for [TS]

  exploration like die hard against the [TS]

  bruce willis of this movie is a crappy [TS]

  as all the time right but but it's not [TS]

  meant to just be a weapon of of death [TS]

  it's supposed to be annexed exploration [TS]

  vehicle and that's what Scotty says when [TS]

  he quits and and here is [TS]

  the warship right this is the the [TS]

  personification or what ship ification [TS]

  of of what the enterprise isn't so you [TS]

  know and and so I liked that contrast [TS]

  also star trek 3 Scott reference here [TS]

  which is in star trek 3 Scotty sabotages [TS]

  the big fancy ship to save the [TS]

  enterprise and here Scotty sabotages the [TS]

  big fancy ship again he's got he's [TS]

  really gonna break it didn't have a [TS]

  triple their food celsior yeah so this [TS]

  is like that yeah Scotty it don't get on [TS]

  skype his bad side [TS]

  Scotty will break Scott Scotty's a [TS]

  badass alright i will sneak onto your [TS]

  ship and brakes and brake it to someone [TS]

  it i like the Excelsior though I was [TS]

  gonna be out of our guys that was pretty [TS]

  cool [TS]

  there's a moment and in this movie [TS]

  there's more schools like hey the chair [TS]

  it's actually pretty nice so yeah [TS]

  another wait for you you'll get there by [TS]

  like it's got more shadowing I like this [TS]

  scotty broke broke those ships and [TS]

  although i know there's a line of [TS]

  dialogue where they say that that uh the [TS]

  Vengeance is supposed to be run by [TS]

  minimal crew but it's like a really big [TS]

  ship and Scotty Scotty appears to be [TS]

  able to walk for hours and never see [TS]

  anybody [TS]

  it's true he's not there's no jeopardy [TS]

  he's not like duckin behind and and the [TS]

  guys are walking down a quarter and he's [TS]

  crossing he's literally like do to do to [TS]

  do walking through vast stretches of [TS]

  Starship and there's nobody there which [TS]

  seemed it just seemed that very dramatic [TS]

  to be I feel like it i always wonder all [TS]

  the people are doing on the enterprise [TS]

  but it seems like the only people who [TS]

  are important like the people on the [TS]

  bridge you flown by 1i sickbay [TS]

  yeah and a couple guys in engineering [TS]

  even an engineering like what are all [TS]

  the other non Scotty people doing [TS]

  besides dying tragically occasionally [TS]

  they're just taking up oxygen arrested [TS]

  sure Scully doesn't sabotage the ship [TS]

  yeah right actually accidentally it's [TS]

  all about job security i mean look at [TS]

  look at a hard time to check off at with [TS]

  taking over for Scotty right like he's [TS]

  got that straight off arranged in the [TS]

  way he likes it [TS]

  put on Richards kind of an odd fake too [TS]

  I would imagine someone who's like a [TS]

  check off you've been shadowing Scotty [TS]

  for a while take over this war traffic [TS]

  if seem like an odd choice on Kirk's [TS]

  part [TS]

  how'd you like to be the long-serving [TS]

  second-in-command of the engineering [TS]

  deck to be told that the the [TS]

  the 18 year old kid was going to be your [TS]

  boss instead of you Jason russian kid [TS]

  he's taking off his genius he's out that [TS]

  it's that Kirk he's always going to [TS]

  promote the bridge people over over [TS]

  everything else [TS]

  myopic yeah so they're they're so we [TS]

  there's another interesting action [TS]

  sequence it's kind of a replay of the [TS]

  first movie where they get in little [TS]

  suits and zip around and in the debris [TS]

  fields between the two ships [TS]

  yes you know it's not a bad scene [TS]

  although I i'm not sure it isn't kind of [TS]

  superfluous it is JJ likes that likes [TS]

  those suits he likes traveling really [TS]

  fast enough but what I like about this [TS]

  part of the movie and it goes back to [TS]

  that thing about one of the themes of [TS]

  this movie being a question of its not a [TS]

  purely polar kind of there's a good guy [TS]

  and a bad guy part right well there's a [TS]

  great turn in this movie where they take [TS]

  on out of the brig ma ma and they take [TS]

  him to sick bay and draws blood that [TS]

  might be important later mom and and [TS]

  then you know there's a moment where [TS]

  they realize what Marcus is doing and [TS]

  all of a sudden the logical thing to do [TS]

  is to work with Khan and i love that [TS]

  moment i love the fact that we're in a [TS]

  position now we're working with this guy [TS]

  who we know is the bad guy the movie [TS]

  there's another bad guy in this movie [TS]

  too and I i love that there's this whole [TS]

  action scene where khan and Kirk are [TS]

  trying to help each other survive and [TS]

  get to the other ship and then of course [TS]

  it turns back on that ship nice i think [TS]

  we're helping him but i love the fact [TS]

  that this movie is all my going into it [TS]

  with I you know I had these expectations [TS]

  of its all about that Cumberbatch is the [TS]

  bad guy and then in the middle of the [TS]

  movie all of a sudden you're like wait a [TS]

  second what if he's not really the worst [TS]

  guy in this movie are we supposed to [TS]

  play will change Jason well no II mean [TS]

  he's still a bad guy but he's necessary [TS]

  he's got for the good like I mean we got [TS]

  the same problem that we have with with [TS]

  Marcus which is that his intentions or [TS]

  at least the intentions that he presents [TS]

  are domestically moral right like he [TS]

  wants to save his friends who are have [TS]

  all been like frozen in carbonite [TS]

  granted him [TS]

  carbonite oh yeah i'll type i close [TS]

  enough but i mean granted once they get [TS]

  out of their torpedoes they might try to [TS]

  take another billion galaxies button [TS]

  every right now we're talking about you [TS]

  know it's still nice [TS]

  he wants to help his friends writing in [TS]

  that that's what resonates that's how he [TS]

  gets curtright what would you do for [TS]

  your family is you know he's realized [TS]

  exactly where to get coordinated but [TS]

  there's clearly a part of that is not [TS]

  just if he was really just a bad guy he [TS]

  would let all of those people died right [TS]

  and just try to like take over the world [TS]

  by himself but he's not he's actually [TS]

  seems to have some investment in those [TS]

  people and that gives him a redemptive [TS]

  quality which makes him more interesting [TS]

  as a villain or antagonist if you want [TS]

  to use that word i thought that was a [TS]

  good kirk moment when you know [TS]

  Cumberbatch's making his pitch to like [TS]

  you know we should work together or [TS]

  trust me or let me explain the situation [TS]

  and I guess it was a jerk and bones and [TS]

  they both turn away from him and walked [TS]

  past the camera and Kirk says you know [TS]

  know maybe we should like think about it [TS]

  shows like Kirk head come back from his [TS]

  just being mad want to punch the guy in [TS]

  the face to being the sort of canny [TS]

  savvy Kirk right always looking at the [TS]

  situation and trying to figure things [TS]

  out and isn't it completely willing to [TS]

  turn on a dime and say he makes a good [TS]

  case we should really think about this [TS]

  and then bones like all your crazy [TS]

  weekend you know trust this guy so that [TS]

  that was a good kirk moment that skirt [TS]

  can no longer focused on vengeance and [TS]

  thinking and thinking about it more [TS]

  clearly and knowing how dangerous con is [TS]

  but realizing that this situation has [TS]

  gotten a lot more complicated know maybe [TS]

  he thought it was and yeah it's it is [TS]

  good and and you know because like are [TS]

  you out of your mama humans [TS]

  he's like well you know i'm gonna i'm [TS]

  gonna listen to him and but from cons [TS]

  perspective he says you know despite you [TS]

  trying to punch me and stuff you know [TS]

  the reason the basically the reason he [TS]

  lets them live is he sees something in [TS]

  querque or at least he says that right [TS]

  that you're not like Marcus you've got a [TS]

  little more sense and part of that is [TS]

  yes I can use you but part of that is I [TS]

  can trust that you are going to behave [TS]

  in a in a [TS]

  a more rational way then that other guy [TS]

  and that's interesting to the fact that [TS]

  Kanye got you Jason to believe like that [TS]

  well maybe he's gonna be kind of shows [TS]

  like that's because he well I i didn't [TS]

  believe that he was gonna be kind of [TS]

  good i believe that at that point in the [TS]

  film he was less of a threat to me then [TS]

  Admiral Marcus was like and I was [TS]

  delighted by that way said Khan is not [TS]

  the biggest threat in the movie right [TS]

  now [TS]

  well I mean he really wasn't like it's [TS]

  good like he belongs to you he's not the [TS]

  immediate his superior intellect is on [TS]

  display is he is able to play them like [TS]

  you know a musical instrument to get [TS]

  essentially what he wants until his IQ [TS]

  suddenly drops in the last thing but you [TS]

  know right that but they're there are [TS]

  their interests are aligned and that was [TS]

  interesting that in a in a world of if [TS]

  it's just a black-and-white kind of [TS]

  moral world he's the bad guy and so he's [TS]

  the bad guy but in this moment he's not [TS]

  he his interests and Kirk's interests [TS]

  are aligned which is they have the [TS]

  problem of this other ship and they need [TS]

  to do something about it and that i did [TS]

  that's what tickled me is that you know [TS]

  it wasn't he was he's a bad guy and he's [TS]

  gonna do very bad things but at this [TS]

  moment we actually need him and he needs [TS]

  us [TS]

  that's a traditional sort of you know [TS]

  it's a trope in some ways right like you [TS]

  know Superman needs lex luthor's help do [TS]

  something or you know what I mean this [TS]

  is a real it's a thing that we see over [TS]

  and over in television and comic books [TS]

  and all that is there's a time when the [TS]

  villain needs to team up with the good [TS]

  guys in order to fight a larger threat [TS]

  well and I know it's a UH the [TS]

  screenwriter said it's the they feature [TS]

  they like to have kind of a Hong Kong [TS]

  action movie where in that attacked you [TS]

  have the two guys who have been pitted [TS]

  against each other was suddenly there's [TS]

  a larger threat that they have a give [TS]

  you a good American example LA [TS]

  confidential sure yet another another [TS]

  perfect example of these two guys who [TS]

  are at odds for like an entire movie at [TS]

  the end realized and maybe we actually [TS]

  have more in common than we think about [TS]

  but yet and knowing that it's Captain [TS]

  Kirk and con I think makes it that much [TS]

  better right because it's like those two [TS]

  guys are going to work together [TS]

  alright well I i like them and thus [TS]

  began an odd couple [TS]

  haha that's right he's a mess and he [TS]

  wants to take over the galaxy with his [TS]

  superior intellect didn't together [TS]

  don't that a bit okay and that are [TS]

  mostly superfluous action scene where [TS]

  they're flying through space and their [TS]

  spacesuits and everything that's a [TS]

  that's an example like that scene would [TS]

  have been as pointless as the spaceship [TS]

  scene but they did add one part that [TS]

  actually related back to the story arc [TS]

  and the characters which is that a [TS]

  certain point they make it they make you [TS]

  wonder whether I Kirk has been abandoned [TS]

  bike on which would fit with Khan you [TS]

  know having tricked you into letting him [TS]

  off the ship is now just going to go on [TS]

  his own use maybe nobody comes back and [TS]

  saves Kirk which makes you really [TS]

  question whether he really is you know [TS]

  as some intent not that I'm saying that [TS]

  justifies the entire scene but at the [TS]

  very least there was something that [TS]

  happened there sub taxes that had to do [TS]

  with like okay advancing the story and [TS]

  you know going whatever mostly it was [TS]

  like a fly through space and I think it [TS]

  was kind of cool looking but it was cool [TS]

  yeah yeah I I think that just it just [TS]

  decided enough for me i did not mind at [TS]

  all I wouldn't have lost that seemed [TS]

  before the scene where they're flying [TS]

  around on the Klingon homeworld great [TS]

  that was a less interesting to see where [TS]

  the scene work [TS]

  Carol Marcus just taking off her clothes [TS]

  for no reason also Scotty gets to suck i [TS]

  have the airlock that rather that is [TS]

  good and that's why he's a he waits to [TS]

  hit the button because he's gotta time [TS]

  it right [TS]

  well that was nice so what are we left [TS]

  with we're left with uh the i would say [TS]

  based on the feedback I've gotten over [TS]

  the last few weeks of the most [TS]

  controversial thing for some people in [TS]

  the movie which is this movie decides to [TS]

  spend you know III a bunch of people [TS]

  have said to me well it's just kind of a [TS]

  remake of traffic on which is totally [TS]

  isn't it's completely different plot [TS]

  there is a 15-minute period where they [TS]

  play the effects of the the end of the [TS]

  wrath of khan and they and they reverse [TS]

  it and Kirk makes the decision to [TS]

  sacrifice himself to get the engine's [TS]

  going so that the ship doesn't crash [TS]

  into the into the ocean and I i heard [TS]

  people say well that's very unoriginal [TS]

  wear for me it's like well I for me it's [TS]

  an homage it's a reference its dramatic [TS]

  but at the same time it's fascinating [TS]

  about how it plays out in the opposite [TS]

  direction [TS]

  I thought it was funny the wrath of khan [TS]

  is one of my favorite movies of all time [TS]

  and when i watch this I didn't think all [TS]

  again is nothing sacred [TS]

  they should they shouldn't [TS]

  brought over that ground instead I [TS]

  watched and I was like oh this is so [TS]

  great they are they are taking the wrath [TS]

  of khan and then they're doing they're [TS]

  spinning it and they're changing it and [TS]

  they're doing some different stuff with [TS]

  it in the context of this movie and it's [TS]

  only like 10 or 15 minutes where it [TS]

  lines up and otherwise it's a very [TS]

  different movie i'm curious what you [TS]

  guys all thought of that it got me and I [TS]

  i think i got really wrapped up in the [TS]

  movie at this point i was really [TS]

  interested i guess i was invested [TS]

  because I had a moment where you know [TS]

  you they Telegraph ok [TS]

  the engines there's the glass door right [TS]

  where the radiation sign on it and my [TS]

  first thought was well put Spock's up on [TS]

  the bridge they're never going to get [TS]

  him down here in time like that's going [TS]

  to be super convoluted if they have to [TS]

  get him down here so we can fix this and [TS]

  died and then i had that like you know [TS]

  oh wait no they're gonna do the opposite [TS]

  they're gonna have Kirko in which I [TS]

  thought huh well that's interesting [TS]

  because they had done there was so much [TS]

  speculation because they had that scene [TS]

  that shot in the trailer right but no [TS]

  but they didn't because it's miss [TS]

  direction it's like that's what that for [TS]

  me that was working on mine said you [TS]

  were in i would have preferred not to [TS]

  have seen that part of the I was ok I [TS]

  was ok with it because it it it got me [TS]

  thinking of okay clearly there's [TS]

  something in here that is a no Maj to [TS]

  star trek to but it didn't it never [TS]

  occurred to me that maybe because I'm [TS]

  maybe I'm dumb [TS]

  maybe but he never never occurred to me [TS]

  a million years that they would go in [TS]

  the other direction and again you know [TS]

  Jason points out that the the sacrifice [TS]

  the mirror and obviously this is an [TS]

  obvious you know a part of that and the [TS]

  major part of that in this movie is Kirk [TS]

  literally sacrificing himself to save [TS]

  everybody and I was so wrapped up in it [TS]

  in fact that i usually I'm pretty good [TS]

  at catching plot points when they [TS]

  foreshadow things like but i really had [TS]

  a moment of huh [TS]

  they're really gonna kill Kirk huh like [TS]

  well make the next movie really think [TS]

  we'd maybe this is what had that's fine [TS]

  but and I'm not a unitary JJ Abrams is [TS]

  also not a guy who tries away from [TS]

  killing Kim major characters but I and I [TS]

  just I had forgotten all about despite [TS]

  the fact in retrospect I look back and [TS]

  like there's that one scene that's [TS]

  really really it's kind of awkwardly [TS]

  painful with the bones what you doing [TS]

  with that with good cosplay triple yeah [TS]

  well why do you have that [TS]

  had trouble on your desk I'm injecting [TS]

  and bring it back to life [TS]

  that's that that's the moment I was [TS]

  called back to the what it's wayne's [TS]

  world where there's that line of like uh [TS]

  he told us his entire itinerary it [TS]

  seemed extraneous at the time and and [TS]

  this is that moment where the second [TS]

  time i watched like he's literally in [TS]

  this totally taught scene with Khan [TS]

  right and then inequitable FTW let me [TS]

  just look suppose this is what's the [TS]

  deal with the trouble is like what this [TS]

  is this is how we do science of the [TS]

  enterprise I just reject random things [TS]

  instead triple its badly executed [TS]

  because it's it bugs me because it shows [TS]

  a lack of credit being given to the [TS]

  audience because we saw con take his [TS]

  blood out tops on Mickey Smith from [TS]

  Doctor Who put it in his daughters thing [TS]

  his daughter gets better we get it right [TS]

  we don't need to see the triple thing [TS]

  right right [TS]

  it smacks of a studio note like mad [TS]

  people really going to know that people [TS]

  you know are it's really going to be [TS]

  smart enough they want to fit the [TS]

  triples and it's like everyone's [TS]

  troubles we gotta put them in somewhere [TS]

  but we saw McCoy inject the blood into [TS]

  the triple as like a test that we didn't [TS]

  need the what are you doing with the [TS]

  triple well I that's that's what strikes [TS]

  me as odd about it was that it felt so [TS]

  blatant it was too and it seems like [TS]

  something that was tacked on later right [TS]

  you know and so you could cut that and [TS]

  you know i mean there are numerous plot [TS]

  holes then like as i was talking to [TS]

  occasional and comfortable panels Tony [TS]

  sindelar about this the other day but [TS]

  he's like I mean you got like 70 other [TS]

  guys on board with blood like try to get [TS]

  like borrow blood for them they're all [TS]

  frozen there yet but they take a guy out [TS]

  of the tube to procure can do anything [TS]

  on a farm and then and there are no [TS]

  microwave person i'm sure they would [TS]

  have tried that if they didn't get the [TS]

  con blood but they gotta cut get on [TS]

  what's available [TS]

  he's right and they also point out that [TS]

  they can't kill him it's like i'm pretty [TS]

  sure you can get blood out of him he's [TS]

  dead phone strike all the bloody yeah [TS]

  that's true it's it's it's true [TS]

  turns out this car but makes a great [TS]

  cockpit so I a couple of comments from [TS]

  some of our our star trek doubters in [TS]

  the in the chat room which is which is [TS]

  great which is a they're saying they [TS]

  didn't like Kirk sacrificing himself [TS]

  because they felt it was empty and what [TS]

  i would say that is correct things he [TS]

  said [TS]

  fighting himself we know if we're smart [TS]

  that he's not but the point is that the [TS]

  character is making that decision it is [TS]

  it is interesting to see the [TS]

  ramifications of that also my kids [TS]

  thought he was going to die [TS]

  my kids were very upset of that boo [TS]

  because they didn't realize what was [TS]

  going to happen and in the end you know [TS]

  I think that's in any franchise movie [TS]

  with a strong protagonist I'm not gonna [TS]

  kill him [TS]

  I mean I'm sorry they're never gonna [TS]

  kill him so really you know the point is [TS]

  that the character makes that decision [TS]

  not that the audience is thinking oh my [TS]

  god kevin Brooks and i right now because [TS]

  I mean I I wondered if they'd kill check [TS]

  off maybe but I doesn't like a big [TS]

  scaffolding fell on [TS]

  okay well and it's not i mean the issue [TS]

  is Kirk doesn't go in thinking it's ok [TS]

  if I die in there they can just inject [TS]

  that one and I'll be fine i'll be [TS]

  resurrected you know you know speaking [TS]

  speaking of that sacrificing even though [TS]

  I saw it coming and knew how they were [TS]

  going to revive him the one thing that [TS]

  sold it to me was like well two things [TS]

  what one if you're a super star trek fan [TS]

  and it's annoying you I try to get into [TS]

  the mindset by thinking about how I [TS]

  would've felt if like Luke told later [TS]

  that he was his father you know thank [TS]

  you for reading was not so clever it's a [TS]

  role reversal aren't you getting guys [TS]

  but that would be nonsensical just make [TS]

  some sense in the thing that sold it to [TS]

  me is that after this play out exactly [TS]

  how I thought it would and I was [TS]

  slightly annoyed about seeing in the [TS]

  trailer spot yelling con at the end of [TS]

  it for whatever reason ice that didn't [TS]

  think that would happen and that sold it [TS]

  for me because i would expect if the [TS]

  roles were reversed that surely Spock's [TS]

  reaction would be more subdued the Turks [TS]

  and instead they went the other [TS]

  direction where I think it was more [TS]

  over-the-top then maybe it's just the [TS]

  framing and then the scoring and and [TS]

  that fits with the new Spock who really [TS]

  was sold especially in the first movie [TS]

  is just this tortured soul was really [TS]

  trying to keep it together here who [TS]

  really does feel more deeply than humans [TS]

  do and but can't control it like it four [TS]

  hundred percent of all can you can and [TS]

  once he yelled that out a sauce on the [TS]

  chat room yelling about that saying how [TS]

  is like Vader's know it's so far from [TS]

  that that that outburst fit with his [TS]

  character and sold me that sequence and [TS]

  I said okay now i buy it you can bring [TS]

  it back now I like to think of this is [TS]

  he boosts [TS]

  yeah he's very i know i know i like that [TS]

  it gave me gave me a little bit [TS]

  goosebump I don't know it works for me i [TS]

  agree with John he's a good Yeller [TS]

  I thought it was a little bit silly well [TS]

  the original conscripts with that silly [TS]

  but it's true everything we also risk [TS]

  mythologizing the Old star trek and [TS]

  saying this new thing doesn't live up to [TS]

  it when nothing that would necessarily [TS]

  live up to the to the class i mean that [TS]

  these characters and these actors don't [TS]

  have the same history that the the [TS]

  original characters did right so it's [TS]

  not going to have the same impact but [TS]

  that's fine i think it's clever and it's [TS]

  a clever reworking of something that's [TS]

  familiar and it was fun to see and it [TS]

  made sense in the context of the movie [TS]

  and people just need to chill out [TS]

  yeah comment down people yeah [TS]

  get a life that you missed that one more [TS]

  slightly unnecessary action scene where [TS]

  they're jumping on top of like red [TS]

  garbage trucks since in is floating [TS]

  garbage trucks and sparkles chasing [TS]

  conducts that's after I was that later [TS]

  with it like that I felt like we don't [TS]

  need you to jump from vehicles that we [TS]

  don't understand other vehicles that we [TS]

  don't understand point each other the [TS]

  scene could take place in a more [TS]

  compressed yeah manner [TS]

  yeah was it was also the unnecessarily [TS]

  complex thing sort of like at the end of [TS]

  the first movie where where they're [TS]

  jumping around on the different [TS]

  platforms and stuff where it's like [TS]

  really is this in the future in San [TS]

  Francisco is this how we're going to [TS]

  deal with garbage or moving Freight I'm [TS]

  was the all you needed was a soundstage [TS]

  the paper mache rocks [TS]

  yeah exactly exactly so there's a fight [TS]

  and a hora beams down and they based [TS]

  uncon a bunch of times and he gives him [TS]

  the little pinch and and there's [TS]

  actually a funny good moment I think [TS]

  we're work on is trying to squeeze [TS]

  squeeze squeeze box head to the cops and [TS]

  spot gives him a little like a mind-meld [TS]

  thing like to transfer the pain he's [TS]

  feeling and cons like how we know yikes [TS]

  and that was huh wow I did not realize [TS]

  never so much i will stop doing that to [TS]

  be yeah you know that sorry that's wrong [TS]

  I I apology [TS]

  well if if my head hurts when I squeeze [TS]

  your head then I'm not gonna do that [TS]

  because that's so then he tries to link [TS]

  breaks box and so no more this hand [TS]

  business you don't have any hand in my [TS]

  face and [TS]

  exactly and that and and and so to go to [TS]

  the the very end I'm also amused that [TS]

  they just put them all back in the [TS]

  freezer and I I actually kind of like [TS]

  that because it's almost like it's not [TS]

  the same obviously but it's almost like [TS]

  the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark where [TS]

  it's like we're going to file them away [TS]

  and I'm sure [TS]

  first off I'm sure he'll never be woken [TS]

  up again no and also i'm sure nobody [TS]

  will say hey where did the guy who has [TS]

  the blood that brings people back to [TS]

  life wit it's a shame that he died right [TS]

  he died right [TS]

  he didn't die what did we find him under [TS]

  three sea bass magic blood is that we [TS]

  have is under am blood come up magic [TS]

  they don't really need the bloody where [TS]

  the right be synthesized like McCoy [TS]

  synthesize some kind of resurrection [TS]

  serum may dramatically everyone [TS]

  Starfleet is a mortal man universe is [TS]

  immortal [TS]

  I also said they will forget completely [TS]

  about his blood caring people and that [TS]

  will not be a plot point future movies [TS]

  where he's revived until Star Trek the [TS]

  return of Khan wear then that will be [TS]

  the reason he's revived right well I [TS]

  mean maybe but they'll have a scene [TS]

  where they're they're having a battle on [TS]

  a spaceship where gravity is suspended [TS]

  in those drops that will be floating and [TS]

  I through so any other any other [TS]

  thoughts about into darkness sounds like [TS]

  everybody liked it [TS]

  I of course I didn't invite the people i [TS]

  know who didn't like it so good today I [TS]

  mean generally I mean it gets got the [TS]

  John syracuse the seal of approval folks [TS]

  you can't argue with that ending [TS]

  sequence where like I felt that was [TS]

  going a little bit too long we're like [TS]

  now the ship is falling and now the [TS]

  thing is gonna crash in san francisco [TS]

  had a little bit of multiple endings [TS]

  disease but my great gauging enough and [TS]

  especially once these are fighting on [TS]

  the garbage trucks whatever they were [TS]

  that that could have been tightened up a [TS]

  little bit and realize i feel like there [TS]

  was just so much in this movie that I [TS]

  you know I give them thumbs up for [TS]

  trying to wedge the movie scenes in the [TS]

  beginning but I would have liked them to [TS]

  tighten up the end a little bit as well [TS]

  but don't forget the other modules that [TS]

  we saw floating around including Carol [TS]

  Marcus like it's good to have family [TS]

  right [TS]

  nudge nudge at the very end and also I [TS]

  like to the reference to their [TS]

  references to nurse Chapel we believe [TS]

  was major Barrett's character in the [TS]

  original correct [TS]

  hey it's matt and section 31 inches deep [TS]

  space nine reference and Harry Mudd [TS]

  right buddy [TS]

  Yeah Yeah right mud the mud incident [TS]

  right so that makes also the scene at [TS]

  the very end where they get recruited [TS]

  for the Avengers I thought haha of [TS]

  people lies that the end of every movie [TS]

  after the credits samuel jackson shows [TS]

  up as nick fury and invite them to join [TS]

  the offenders [TS]

  you know that the chat room seems to [TS]

  demand that we talked about the [TS]

  situation sauce skype session [TS]

  yes oh and one of one of the complaints [TS]

  that I heard after the first movie was [TS]

  isn't cold spot going to sit down and [TS]

  write like okay here's who you need to [TS]

  worry about and and so we get that scene [TS]

  in here where he says no no I'm not [TS]

  gonna tell you you need to have your own [TS]

  destiny [TS]

  however battalion said just this one [TS]

  time just this one here's what you do [TS]

  incidentally is the only time I appear [TS]

  in this movie but I'm just saying just [TS]

  this one I would love to have seen a [TS]

  blooper reel where it's like now I won't [TS]

  tell you anything about your destiny but [TS]

  there's this guy khan and then like Oh [TS]

  be left to see some box wearing up with [TS]

  something like son of up [TS]

  yeah and and before I go wales just [TS]

  catch it [TS]

  make sure you have to keep a few on hand [TS]

  they're surprisingly handy [TS]

  you guys should really take care of the [TS]

  way home [TS]

  yeah is there a planet somewhere that [TS]

  has Wales because you should bring them [TS]

  back if a guy shows up and tell you that [TS]

  he's God and wants your ships a no-no [TS]

  does not need to start also that [TS]

  Sidewalk guy not my brother [TS]

  so it's a bummer for you don't let me [TS]

  feel your pain [TS]

  yeah I I thought it was I thought was [TS]

  fine i I didn't think we need to see old [TS]

  spark again but at that point in the [TS]

  movie when everything is very tense it's [TS]

  actually kind of funny I didn't mind it [TS]

  it's nice to see Leonard Nimoy again I I [TS]

  think I see a chair of to spark dynamic [TS]

  is actually pretty amusing but I didn't [TS]

  think it was necessary but I thought [TS]

  that was one of those cases where people [TS]

  who wanna ask what about the old Sparky [TS]

  knows everything [TS]

  this was an example of them trying to [TS]

  address one of those points i like the [TS]

  idea that he's having a conversation [TS]

  with himself on a bridge in plain view [TS]

  of like 20 crew members who all have all [TS]

  got to be going [TS]

  what the hell is going on there to [TS]

  sparks [TS]

  that come what what what also i just [TS]

  love that Leonard Nimoy retire has [TS]

  retired about 74 talking to my keeps [TS]

  coming back they said he said read those [TS]

  lines for his bathroom [TS]

  nobody retires like like that anymore [TS]

  yeah that was just skype call to New [TS]

  Vulcan he's always inspect Leonard [TS]

  Nimoy's always bring Spock makeup just [TS]

  no matter where you travel when Chris [TS]

  Pine was talking when Curtis talking [TS]

  about are now i guess it was spot was [TS]

  talking about i'll get the development [TS]

  home or the new new Vulcan or whatever [TS]

  that is on the line or whatever I was [TS]

  hoping that they were going to rope in [TS]

  the remainder of the Vulcans into the [TS]

  main plot line of the story and I was [TS]

  disappointed when I said I was just [TS]

  calling themselves calling spot this is [TS]

  Bob himself once it was him and that [TS]

  like I if if that was always going to be [TS]

  there i would just be perfectly happy to [TS]

  have that scene and that i am then [TS]

  Spock's idea of contacting the Balkans [TS]

  completely cut out of the movie [TS]

  yeah yeah it was not necessary it was [TS]

  nice and all but it wasn't necessary but [TS]

  you're right i think the ending was the [TS]

  was the sloppiest part did anybody else [TS]

  want to give you render their final [TS]

  judgment I i liked it i mean it's it's [TS]

  two movies in a row where I've walked [TS]

  out [TS]

  bouncing and ready to see the next [TS]

  episode next week [TS]

  yeah which I never would have thought [TS]

  before the first one and you know i i'm [TS]

  i'm also i'm very critical when I go see [TS]

  stuff because I'll think we'll see how [TS]

  would i have written it and it's it's [TS]

  sort of beard to me that these have been [TS]

  immune to my critic critical nature [TS]

  especially this one because again you [TS]

  know we went as the whole family and I'm [TS]

  sitting there with the kids and one of [TS]

  my favorite memories of last summer was [TS]

  showing the kids wrath of khan for the [TS]

  first time and they had no warning of it [TS]

  they had no idea about Spock's death or [TS]

  anything and you know we're watching the [TS]

  movie they're enjoying it in the living [TS]

  room is dark and at the end of the movie [TS]

  I look over and my eleven-year-old is it [TS]

  just completely in tears and I went oh [TS]

  my god that's what it was like 30 years [TS]

  ago [TS]

  and so watching this one is the same [TS]

  kind of things like I wonder what where [TS]

  he's going to react and they start [TS]

  getting into the you know Kirk [TS]

  sacrificing himself and the glass and I [TS]

  we are friends and all that and I look [TS]

  over and he's he's sitting there he goes [TS]

  wow that's like wrath of khan ya think [TS]

  well already okay my kids my kids I [TS]

  showed him around the con and they don't [TS]

  remember it they're like well I guess [TS]

  we're gonna watch it again you know that [TS]

  was like Rafa comment like that which [TS]

  one is that are not the one with whales [TS]

  it's one with God if we did we'd watch [TS]

  the one with the whales but Scott your [TS]

  verdict [TS]

  i speaking as a tried-and-true Star Trek [TS]

  fan i was satisfied with it I I mean [TS]

  I've read a lot of people listing link [TS]

  these things like you know [TS]

  coldfusion wouldn't freeze a volt yeah [TS]

  you know I'm like well warp doesn't work [TS]

  and you have transporters so you know I [TS]

  cut it a little it is a fictional movie [TS]

  it's a lot of fun like i said i think [TS]

  the I think that they captured the [TS]

  relationship which is what the original [TS]

  series is really about the relationship [TS]

  between Kirk and Spock and McCoy they [TS]

  got that right and i think that as long [TS]

  as you get that right you can you can [TS]

  hang a lot of stuff off of that forgives [TS]

  a lot of other faults exactly and and [TS]

  especially this movie got the right [TS]

  villain so submitted Cumberbatch's are [TS]

  really good a very different but a very [TS]

  good con and I saw this movie with my my [TS]

  wife and I said to her well who was the [TS]

  better con ricardo montalban or a bit [TS]

  corrupt and she said well better [TS]

  Cumberbatch was certainly the scarier [TS]

  con other more like chillingly [TS]

  frightening con but a ricardo montalban [TS]

  was angrier and I said yeah that's about [TS]

  right he had a lot of reasons to be [TS]

  angry he did just get shot onto a random [TS]

  planet by Captain Kirk's right i was [TS]

  waiting at the end of this movie for [TS]

  their be like they're not going to start [TS]

  out being programmed exact probably warn [TS]

  them against that part of it but also [TS]

  people remember montalban from starter [TS]

  to but you know in space seed he was [TS]

  you know he was much younger just like [TS]

  everybody was and this is this is that [TS]

  original thought out con here not the [TS]

  you know 20 years on the desert planet [TS]

  my wife got eaten by a seti land bit [TS]

  crazy with revenge [TS]

  yeah coming moby-dick over and over and [TS]

  over him until we packed a kindle but [TS]

  overall I really enjoyed it and I i was [TS]

  happy i did not i wasn't anchored by [TS]

  anything that happened did it and I [TS]

  thought I thought it was a great star [TS]

  trek movie and I will I saw it twice and [TS]

  I'll see it again I'll buy the blu-ray [TS]

  yep i want star trek back on TV but [TS]

  absolutely i think that will happen I i [TS]

  think it's inevitable that that will [TS]

  happen but they may have to make another [TS]

  one of these movies first and then segue [TS]

  into a spin-off series or something [TS]

  as I said to you on twitter jason i [TS]

  think it is clear that wrath of khan is [TS]

  a better movie but this movie is fun and [TS]

  enjoyable [TS]

  yes I don't know i just watched wrath of [TS]

  khan and maybe it's because it didn't [TS]

  date that well I rely i agree the wrath [TS]

  of khan is the best of the regular [TS]

  classic Star Trek movies i think i have [TS]

  to see this one again because I did only [TS]

  see one time and it's 10 and with my son [TS]

  so that may be clouding my judgment but [TS]

  aight i don't i would put this right up [TS]

  against the wrath of khan in in if both [TS]

  both of them viewed in modern times [TS]

  reading and maybe i'll have to see into [TS]

  darkness one more time to see we'll do a [TS]

  whole episode about the original Star [TS]

  Trek movies i would say that my four [TS]

  favorite Star Trek movies are these two [TS]

  and stir to and and first contact [TS]

  actually I i would say they're my four [TS]

  favorites could go with if you had four [TS]

  and six in there then you've listed [TS]

  every good star chick that's true voice [TS]

  always complaining about my six [TS]

  favorites that that when Kirk dies they [TS]

  don't take a whole movie to bring it [TS]

  back it's like yes they learned you see [TS]

  they learn about 20 spot that the search [TS]

  for Kirk it's the rocks across doubt it [TS]

  will just stuff like that you know i [TS]

  think you should be able to space and [TS]

  see what happened and see what happens [TS]

  shoot him at they could have shot him at [TS]

  kronos ahead and see what happens right [TS]

  the the Klingons would have resurrected [TS]

  that's where you hide your people isn't [TS]

  torpedoes that's how it works exactly [TS]

  alright so this has been good a guy i [TS]

  encourage the second viewing I think the [TS]

  second viewing would be good my kids [TS]

  like 2i I liked it better i saw in 3d [TS]

  the second time [TS]

  who did you see it in imax night I saw [TS]

  the regular 3d I don't really around me [TS]

  already [TS]

  I thought it was shot in 2d I think [TS]

  maybe just stay in 2d and I want you [TS]

  need the imax 3d happened twenty dollars [TS]

  tickets to see it in imax 3d was [TS]

  spectacular [TS]

  ah it was enjoyable I I then saw it [TS]

  again for seven dollars and I had just [TS]

  as much yeah there you go that's how [TS]

  they get you [TS]

  alright i go i'm going to call it [TS]

  this has been great I'd like to thank my [TS]

  guests as i always do as is my custom [TS]

  Dan Morgan thank you for being here it's [TS]

  my pleasure captain live long and [TS]

  prosper damn the force be with you [TS]

  David lower thanks for coming back on it [TS]

  was great to have you [TS]

  great to be here and and I should leave [TS]

  you as you lift me is that a threat [TS]

  John siracusa thank you you know we [TS]

  forgot to mention the best william [TS]

  shatner on ma Jin this entire movie [TS]

  which is the title which is without its [TS]

  colon star trek into darkness [TS]

  you don't know where to put the emphasis [TS]

  you can do it anyway I thought you can [TS]

  see the best are William Shatner imagine [TS]

  this movie was the TJ hooker seen i'm [TS]

  speaking up when spot rolls over the [TS]

  hood of that [TS]

  hey yeah i was thinking about canvas the [TS]

  scene where he fights all the spiders [TS]

  there is a william shatner reference [TS]

  that you have two more living room [TS]

  fair enough and Scott mcnulty it's you [TS]

  and me [TS]

  thank you for being on another star trek [TS]

  episode I don't know how it is that [TS]

  we've been on this podcast and we do [TS]

  like a billion episodes about Star Wars [TS]

  and like three about Star Trek how is [TS]

  that possible [TS]

  John meritocracy what that's outrageous [TS]

  I i I've also deeply offended that this [TS]

  movie was described as a star wars my [TS]

  will save it for our Star Wars versus [TS]

  Star Trek Ozzy in which we determine [TS]

  whether the enterprise or start a story [TS]

  would win in a fight [TS]

  wait well they also did say it was the [TS]

  best Star Wars movie of the last 20 [TS]

  years so that's not it's not alright hi [TS]

  no but the good news is star trek to the [TS]

  rescue [TS]

  JJ Abrams will be warping through [TS]

  hyperspace to save the star wars [TS]

  franchise that's right episode 7 set [TS]

  your lightsabres to study these movies [TS]

  just a warm-up Jason yes now that he [TS]

  saved start track maybe he can save Star [TS]

  Wars with some of that Star Trek magic [TS]

  and swear all right until our next [TS]

  episode which will probably be about [TS]

  star wars because aren't they all this [TS]

  point for the uncomfortable in my fine [TS]

  fine panelist this is jason still [TS]

  signing off [TS]

  may the force be with you [TS]

  instructor to we there they faked the [TS]

  death of Spock and the rest of the crew [TS]

  in the Kobayashi Magoo meroo at the [TS]

  beginning construction i would choose to [TS]

  get it was good to see you can't win [TS]

  because you can't see anything can't see [TS]

  you like in the theater when I was [TS]

  taking notes that was the Kobayashi [TS]

  Magoo i'll tell ya see what I should [TS]

  have done is like very cleverly replay [TS]

  parts of our starter to the wrath of [TS]

  khan episode but with Scott and I taking [TS]

  the opposite roles but I didn't do you [TS]

  still can [TS]

  haha hello this is set to alpha 5 there [TS]

  we were told him [TS]

  excellent is this city on fire I just [TS]

  want i want i just watched Star Trek for [TS]

  the voyage home with my kids computer a [TS]

  little computer actually my favorite [TS]

  line in that movie is doctor gave me a [TS]

  pill the groovy a new kidney [TS]

  I love that that's so great field baby [TS]

  wails yeah hang on [TS]

  birds are pretty sure remember where we [TS]

  part exactly i'm in Indiana just working [TS]

  space is Iowa come on guys but he's in [TS]

  indiana [TS]

  I'm an Indian it's all out how it is [TS]

  this heaven [TS]

  alright i'm glad Jon Jon allows it [TS]

  that's good spot gives the Vulcan death [TS]

  grip that guy in the bus every collapse [TS]

  there's no such thing as we fucking [TS]

  death grip and justjust leave now you're [TS]

  embarrassing yourself [TS]

  search your feelings you know it to be [TS]

  true [TS]

  what no [TS]

  that's not true that's impossible you [TS]

  know you guys have done the city al5 [TS]

  reading so much that when i went back [TS]

  and watch wrath of khan again the actual [TS]

  reading in the movie is now less [TS]

  exciting format [TS]

  you're very like it's just under well [TS]

  it's been exciting like oh he just kind [TS]

  of says the lines a little bit of [TS]

  emphasis is nothing like the [TS]

  over-the-top this is City alpha hive [TS]