The Incomparable

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  the incomparable number 142 may2013 [TS]

  welcome back to the income I guess I'm [TS]

  your host Jason snail and we are here at [TS]

  long last to talk about the second half [TS]

  of season 7 of Doctor Who one of my [TS]

  favorites of all time and we we refrain [TS]

  from doing the flash episode by episode [TS]

  podcast and instead are going to cram [TS]

  all eight episodes of the back half of [TS]

  the season into one super-sized and [TS]

  comfortable podcast joining me to talk [TS]

  about doctor who r Scott McNulty hi [TS]

  Scott [TS]

  hello Jason it's good to have you you [TS]

  know there's someplace I think someone [TS]

  could cram some of these episodes but oh [TS]

  dear oh dear [TS]

  we will not talk about Star Trek though [TS]

  this time but we'll save that for next [TS]

  time [TS]

  John siracusa is also here hi John that [TS]

  Star Trek was a fantastic movie now [TS]

  don't save it [TS]

  that's the next one we got backed up its [TS]

  summer are lots of things are happening [TS]

  in Game of Thrones and it's too much [TS]

  going on Dan Morgan is also here because [TS]

  he's often hear hi dan and I really [TS]

  enjoyed the scottie parts behind you're [TS]

  killing me again wrong thing wrong [TS]

  franchise please please [TS]

  and I have called in an expert witness [TS]

  it is the host of a podcast that I [TS]

  listen to faithfully the 2-minute Time [TS]

  Lord podcast so named because it knows [TS]

  how to get in [TS]

  say interesting things and get out [TS]

  quickly unlike other podcast i could [TS]

  name such as this one it's chip from the [TS]

  2-minute Time Lord hi chip [TS]

  I and I preferred star trek into [TS]

  darkness and the original Klingon oh [TS]

  dear there there are original [TS]

  no they're not original Klingon Senate [TS]

  are there they're not unoriginal they [TS]

  they don't like to talk today if we [TS]

  don't speak of it enhance clean their [TS]

  enhanced they have pumpkin heads is chip [TS]

  aware that he needs to talk for more [TS]

  than two minutes because we often go on [TS]

  yes well maybe we should all take a cue [TS]

  from chip and talk a little less except [TS]

  for Scott I don't often talk for more [TS]

  than two men actually Scott Scott's got [TS]

  it down [TS]

  that's true it's me and and and and John [TS]

  have the problem all right let's get [TS]

  into it so they split this season in [TS]

  half which caused much consternation [TS]

  among doctor who fans pointing out that [TS]

  this means that there are a few [TS]

  episodes being produced because there's [TS]

  essentially these half seasons over the [TS]

  course of two years but be that as it [TS]

  may we did have eight episodes that ran [TS]

  over eight weeks so we're going to think [TS]

  back to the start of this at the end of [TS]

  March and the first episode of this of [TS]

  this half season was the bells of st. [TS]

  John which you may remember as the [TS]

  episode with the the motorcycle that can [TS]

  go up the side of a building and the [TS]

  white evo Wi-Fi that that sucks you into [TS]

  the cloud where you get a little [TS]

  suspicious that Glenn isn't here on an [TS]

  episode that involves Wi-Fi is all I'm [TS]

  saying yeah [TS]

  yep isn't it in maybe a little maybe [TS]

  so this was a bad this hahaha it is not [TS]

  it is not by far the worst ever gonna [TS]

  season [TS]

  no I that's that's faint praise I think [TS]

  wow burn get it it's this this is has [TS]

  the unenviable task of setting up a [TS]

  meeting between the doctor and his new [TS]

  companion except there's one problem [TS]

  which is we've already seen them eat you [TS]

  know arguably once if not twice before [TS]

  and it in some ways this actually felt a [TS]

  little bit like a like a russell davis [TS]

  episode era episode in the sense that [TS]

  I'm it was it had a lot of high concept [TS]

  what if there was an alien in the Wi-Fi [TS]

  what if there was a monster that had a [TS]

  spoon for ahead haha and and I don't [TS]

  know it in the end I I there are things [TS]

  about it that I like I actually likes [TS]

  some of the interplay between the doctor [TS]

  and Clara and they're they're kind of [TS]

  back and forth but but yeah a battle it [TS]

  just was it was just very generic almost [TS]

  to me it as a well I guess the [TS]

  obligatory introduce the companion [TS]

  episode the plot was not the high point [TS]

  although I agree with you that the I [TS]

  liked a lot of the character [TS]

  interactions between the doctor and [TS]

  Clara I think they have be the actors [TS]

  have really good chemistry and that [TS]

  manages to save some otherwise subpar [TS]

  plotting maybe that's just me that [TS]

  that's it's [TS]

  ministry in a vacuum though like I i [TS]

  agree the two actors seem to want to do [TS]

  something but you can't just have those [TS]

  personalities you have to have a [TS]

  supporting story or script or something [TS]

  to justify that chemistry and I you know [TS]

  I feel bad for the two of them in the [TS]

  season because nothing against the Act [TS]

  the actress and matt smith is great and [TS]

  everything but if if they're not given [TS]

  some kind of overall story arc to tie [TS]

  their chemistry to like you think of you [TS]

  know Amy Pond the girl who waited her [TS]

  she has had an arc and and intention for [TS]

  the entire thing with her and Rory and [TS]

  the triangle and even then that resolves [TS]

  and she wonders what she's doing with [TS]

  her life that carried the rest of her [TS]

  sparks for this isn't miss this [TS]

  particular episode is a lot like a lot [TS]

  of the ones i think back of an intended [TS]

  error where ya the plot is silly and [TS]

  there's some stupid thread and maybe the [TS]

  threat is dumb and involves bad cg or [TS]

  whatever but if the companion dr. [TS]

  relationship and their overarching fine [TS]

  then the part of the episode just [TS]

  background for letting these to advance [TS]

  their plot whether it's him and Don are [TS]

  in tomorrow or whatever like they're [TS]

  doing their thing and in the background [TS]

  and episode is happening and by the way [TS]

  the doctor saves the day during it right [TS]

  this one just had the background silly [TS]

  story and I didn't this entire seasons [TS]

  if I didn't understand the the Ark they [TS]

  were trying to do with Claire I did I [TS]

  just didn't buy into it I guess John [TS]

  were you bothered by the technology in [TS]

  this episode because this is one of [TS]

  those episodes words like the Wi-Fi if [TS]

  you log in and then you can download [TS]

  your brain and then re-upload your brain [TS]

  and you go [TS]

  I mean I have a rant that maybe i'll go [TS]

  on later about about trying to hold [TS]

  something like Doctor Who to therefore [TS]

  the star travelers up to science right [TS]

  by me know where it works for that too i [TS]

  guess i am getting kind of tired of [TS]

  people pointing out the scientific flaws [TS]

  and in stories that are essentially [TS]

  fantasy stories but I was just wondering [TS]

  since I know John sometimes is [TS]

  especially bothered by the misuse of [TS]

  computers this seem to have a lot of [TS]

  that of this sort of like the doctor [TS]

  ends up and the doctor of all the [TS]

  characters in all of science fiction [TS]

  ever he's the last person I would expect [TS]

  you would literally open up a laptop and [TS]

  start typing and be like I mean I'm [TS]

  hacking into this thing and and he was [TS]

  doing it and it was it it didn't even [TS]

  seem like a pair [TS]

  pretty of those things it was actually [TS]

  the plot device was if i type really [TS]

  fast computers will do magical things [TS]

  which is just it mean it's just lazy i [TS]

  think i dont doctor who is so far off [TS]

  the rails in terms of being realistic [TS]

  computer I i'm playing and have [TS]

  complained many times in many of our [TS]

  doctor who podcast about the series not [TS]

  not being willing to sit down its own [TS]

  nonsense rules and follow them like I [TS]

  don't care you know it's never gonna get [TS]

  real technology right real history real [TS]

  anything right fun make up your own [TS]

  crazy rules about like what you know [TS]

  what are the rules about regeneration [TS]

  what are the rules you know what is the [TS]

  the doctor story what is his backstory [TS]

  and what are the powers of the various [TS]

  alien races at various different times [TS]

  and doctor who is flipping about [TS]

  sticking to those two its own nonsense [TS]

  rules and that that I find infuriating [TS]

  because if you're not gonna stick to [TS]

  your own nonsense rules then I start to [TS]

  disengage and I start to feel like I [TS]

  nothing matters because anything can [TS]

  happen any moment but i never do that [TS]

  because the technology is wrong terms of [TS]

  real-world stuff because i don't have [TS]

  that expectation of the show [TS]

  well this is something that sort of [TS]

  endemic to Doctor Who over like 50 years [TS]

  of history it has never been consistent [TS]

  to itself [TS]

  we've been adjusted the last just in the [TS]

  last seven years or so we've had the [TS]

  show arguing with itself over whether [TS]

  time can be written rewritten or not you [TS]

  know perfect their fixed points of [TS]

  course [TS]

  yeah except when they're not or but it's [TS]

  dish but i think that that I think that [TS]

  you I it makes me feel better about the [TS]

  show to think of it as first and [TS]

  foremost a family show and second [TS]

  science fantasy rather than science [TS]

  fiction at that sort of that sort of the [TS]

  heritage of the thing that the downside [TS]

  to that is that it's harder for adults [TS]

  and fans watching it to to sort of set [TS]

  set aside our desire to have everything [TS]

  makes sense and take it take it [TS]

  seriously but you know this is a show [TS]

  that's had transforming transforming [TS]

  robots piloted by little people that can [TS]

  grow motorcycles and mind you Jason that [TS]

  was a that was a Steven Moffat episode [TS]

  of russell t davies episode it your [TS]

  right arm yet I i have been I it has [TS]

  been reliably told me that not long [TS]

  after this episode aired by the way uh [TS]

  people's Wi-Fi network names started [TS]

  changing and developing a mysterious [TS]

  here [TS]

  well it scared see the stats that part I [TS]

  like because that's the Doctor Who trick [TS]

  of like you know scaring kids and and [TS]

  people in general but scaring kids about [TS]

  with Rick mundane things around you are [TS]

  scary and that's that's I mean moffatts [TS]

  trick especially is that I didn't mind [TS]

  that I just mind the month the mundanity [TS]

  of the doctor with a plastic laptop just [TS]

  kind of doing a lot of fast typing and [TS]

  saying I'm controlling a duplicate of [TS]

  myself and now I'm fixing this computer [TS]

  networking because that's just that's [TS]

  just boring and mundane and and I guess [TS]

  that was my my my problem with it [TS]

  I to John's point I would argue that [TS]

  especially thank you chip for [TS]

  elucidating that the consistency of [TS]

  doctor who is it's inconsistent [TS]

  I'm not asking for like you know [TS]

  multi-generational or even across doctor [TS]

  I know I could visit without that some [TS]

  people are going to get all you know [TS]

  cranky about the fact that well that's [TS]

  not consistent with something that [TS]

  happened in 1972 like I don't care you [TS]

  know I mean even I'm will even willing [TS]

  to get clean breaks between doctors i'm [TS]

  just saying like like three episodes ago [TS]

  or perhaps in the same episode cannot [TS]

  see minutes ago I don't know how things [TS]

  work and if you just keep changing the [TS]

  rules immediate cranky and and the thing [TS]

  is like I you know that's not my [TS]

  personal complaint with Doctor Who but [TS]

  I'm willing to accept it if the other [TS]

  stuff carries me through and read that's [TS]

  that's right yeah yeah anything more to [TS]

  say about the bells of st. John I'm [TS]

  disappointed the title didn't have more [TS]

  to do with the episode because it was a [TS]

  good title and a good premise and they [TS]

  have a few seconds and you never see it [TS]

  again [TS]

  yeah we have the way I there are two [TS]

  things i like particularly one the [TS]

  eventual neutralization of the villain [TS]

  that we see in the episode [TS]

  what's your name miss kismet yeah that [TS]

  was kinda I thought that was dark and [TS]

  kind of creepy with a razor and she's a [TS]

  little girl's mind yes like I think that [TS]

  was that know that effectively creeped [TS]

  me out so I so thumbs up to that yeah [TS]

  that was that was the other thing I [TS]

  liked about about this episode was that [TS]

  yeah and we have the setup for the great [TS]

  intelligence although we also [TS]

  you know yeah they could they could have [TS]

  done more with that but I'm sure we'll [TS]

  go into that shortly [TS]

  well and the very least this episode [TS]

  teaching you a valuable lesson about not [TS]

  logging in to random Wi-Fi strange why [TS]

  find other people who I it with your [TS]

  brain yeah although is there a human [TS]

  being on the planet who is as clueless [TS]

  about locking into Wi-Fi ask laura is in [TS]

  the beginning [TS]

  yeah really what well that was the thing [TS]

  I was gonna say to your technology point [TS]

  which is like walking onto Wi-Fi it's [TS]

  like all right this isn't like a hacking [TS]

  into an shl write like this is the one [TS]

  thing everybody in the world who's got a [TS]

  computer has done at some point at least [TS]

  represent it reasonably also if you're [TS]

  if you're going to take over people's [TS]

  brains don't put in unintelligible [TS]

  symbols on there just say free public [TS]

  Wi-Fi and all you go [TS]

  that would be true scary Jason too scary [TS]

  alright let's move on because you see [TS]

  we've only got started and and the best [TS]

  is yet to come because the next episode [TS]

  oh man is is Neil crosses the rings of [TS]

  akhaten which is a very very very [TS]

  strange episode where they go to this I [TS]

  guess it's like a space station or [TS]

  something or something or a moon its [TS]

  orbiting of what looks like it's a gas [TS]

  giant although maybe it's a son I'm i [TS]

  was kind of unclear and some of the [TS]

  details [TS]

  it's a very strange episode the doctor [TS]

  ends up waking up this old God who turns [TS]

  out to be not the old God but the guy [TS]

  who who when he wakes up it wakes up the [TS]

  old god it's of it did i mention that [TS]

  it's a really strange episode and what I [TS]

  liked about it was that it was unlike [TS]

  any doctor who episode i've ever seen [TS]

  before and it was it was really trying [TS]

  very hard to be weird and bizarre what I [TS]

  didn't like about it is that it made no [TS]

  sense and it was awful so that's my what [TS]

  did you not ready to know i mean i like [TS]

  i like being bold i love i love that it [TS]

  was weird but I didn't like the episode [TS]

  you can see the kirby krackle everywhere [TS]

  couldn't you [TS]

  yeah its cosmic man like like far out [TS]

  space hippie Jack Kirby cosmic the pot [TS]

  and a plot is broken i mean i was [TS]

  thinking about me the pacing on it was [TS]

  so weird like it just you know it kinda [TS]

  wish of these things into like things [TS]

  that should take a be sort of a [TS]

  drawn out thing into like two second [TS]

  burst I mean there's some really great [TS]

  stuff in there I like sort of the the [TS]

  feeling of the planet when their first [TS]

  wandering around it there's all the [TS]

  aliens everywhere [TS]

  yeah they find the little girl yeah yeah [TS]

  and there's a lot of their the the the [TS]

  sort of what we think is the villain the [TS]

  beginning again and effectively creepy [TS]

  Monster creation even the scary like [TS]

  eventual villain witch which brought me [TS]

  back to some of the david tennant was it [TS]

  the the satan pit you know yeah that [TS]

  their reserves and creepy stuff there [TS]

  too but as an episode it doesn't hang [TS]

  together it's totally weird she's flying [TS]

  a motorbike through space [TS]

  it's like I don't know it just to me the [TS]

  structure and overall construction of it [TS]

  just seemed like he totally wrong and [TS]

  just off there's lots of doctor who [TS]

  episodes where it comes to some alien [TS]

  situation and there's something that [TS]

  there's something that seems strange or [TS]

  a little bit off and the viewer knows it [TS]

  before the people in the episode and [TS]

  you're you're rooting for him to figure [TS]

  out that something is weird and when [TS]

  that's the central mystery of an episode [TS]

  like oh my god this spaceship is [TS]

  surrounding a giant whale that we're [TS]

  talking you know like however yeah [TS]

  whatever similar Minnesota there that's [TS]

  a lot of Doctor Who formula sometimes [TS]

  the mysteries dominant sometimes it's [TS]

  not [TS]

  and that's why i thought this one was [TS]

  going but it didn't there's a little [TS]

  girl little bit mysterious and then it [TS]

  just goes off in about 800 different [TS]

  directions at once and by the seven [TS]

  things that are explaining this guy's [TS]

  the alarm clock and not the thing and [TS]

  you gotta hold or you gotta tell me but [TS]

  like you know I didn't lose me and and [TS]

  and yeah the motors heavy door so [TS]

  there's a back door so she likes a you [TS]

  know mounted vehicles that because its [TS]

  side of the building on an actual [TS]

  motorcycle and now we have space [TS]

  motorcycle [TS]

  alright whatever well which is [TS]

  interesting too because this is this is [TS]

  Neil cross by think this is the first [TS]

  time we've seen him writing doctor who [TS]

  episode [TS]

  he's previously I was again he's the [TS]

  he's the showrunner of Luther which is [TS]

  an excellent show by the way although [TS]

  are very very dark disturbing story is [TS]

  he wrote hide which we'll get to in a [TS]

  minute [TS]

  right which is the best show and I when [TS]

  they said they said here write another [TS]

  one and this is haha well maybe only [TS]

  have one good one and this one I [TS]

  actually liked far more than i should [TS]

  have for all of the for all the reasons [TS]

  that you guys said [TS]

  I I shouldn't have cared for it but [TS]

  there's something audacious about it i [TS]

  mean there I great is it is weird just [TS]

  weird it's weird stuff pyramids in giant [TS]

  pumpkin headed sons are planets or [TS]

  whatever that whatever it is yeah yeah [TS]

  you know I'm gonna clock Laura coming to [TS]

  the rescue with a leaf and all the stuff [TS]

  you it shouldn't it shouldn't work for [TS]

  me and if I and if I am honest with [TS]

  myself if I look deeply into myself yes [TS]

  it doesn't work but I i'm a sucker for [TS]

  the operatic stuff and the rtd years uh [TS]

  the russell davies years you know there [TS]

  that was operatic and sentimental and [TS]

  then and sometimes to its detriment but [TS]

  I it [TS]

  this was a noble failure to be and I [TS]

  kind of forgave the i kinda forgave the [TS]

  failure because it was something that I [TS]

  hadn't seen in Doctor Who before and i [TS]

  would like to see doctor who get weird [TS]

  as hell more often [TS]

  just a little more a little more plot [TS]

  coherence and believable physics would [TS]

  be nice to I feel like if they had [TS]

  scaled back the weird just a little at [TS]

  the end it might have hung together more [TS]

  having the layers of the like the bad [TS]

  guy who's not really the bad guy have [TS]

  and where you've got the whole satan pit [TS]

  kind of think the consumption of memory [TS]

  thing which happens so late in the game [TS]

  and it makes it seem like the doctors [TS]

  memories are going to be consumed but [TS]

  then he's fine it you know that that was [TS]

  it was it piled on so high and every [TS]

  time I was like trying to catch up and [TS]

  say we'll wait a second how what does [TS]

  that mean [TS]

  and it didn't mean anything and we moved [TS]

  on to the next weird thing but i agree [TS]

  with you about how audacious it is i [TS]

  would hate for Doctor Who to be boring I [TS]

  I much prefer it [TS]

  striving and failing then just kind of [TS]

  having another I mean that that's the [TS]

  thing about bells of st. John is that [TS]

  it's it's a little more bog-standard [TS]

  doctor who and I think I'd rather them [TS]

  not I I'd like them to shoot for the [TS]

  stars a little bit more even if it means [TS]

  that they exploded failure from diet I [TS]

  doctor who fans are notoriously [TS]

  conservative this was so not a [TS]

  conservative [TS]

  I thought it was a little bit timid [TS]

  though because whenever I see a doctor [TS]

  who episodes that have lots of false [TS]

  endings like Jason was saying like oh [TS]

  this is the big climax is going to eat [TS]

  his memories or not or he's going to you [TS]

  know it's a battle of wills against this [TS]

  just and there would be another thing [TS]

  after another thing I like lots and lots [TS]

  of false endings because they're afraid [TS]

  to commit to the consequences of anyone [TS]

  that they had put up before that that [TS]

  shows me that they didn't know how to [TS]

  finish it or they were trying to have [TS]

  their cake you need to have seven [TS]

  dramatic moments at the end you just [TS]

  gotta pick one yeah and I mean the same [TS]

  thing with the middle part of this like [TS]

  could we have just cut out all the [TS]

  middle business and jump right to the [TS]

  and were staring at the big giant [TS]

  pumpkin son and sucking memories out of [TS]

  him and the leaf like I i feel you know [TS]

  the rest will see David you know the [TS]

  music there's they have not overused the [TS]

  season but they definitely did admit the [TS]

  end of the tenth run for the music goes [TS]

  and if one had this big epic thing [TS]

  happening and you have to earn that and [TS]

  I think in the 10th season as they did [TS]

  learn that a significant amount of times [TS]

  then towards the end they were just sort [TS]

  of like going through the motions and [TS]

  this one this episode I don't think they [TS]

  earned they don't didn't turn the payoff [TS]

  the way they want to especially since [TS]

  there were so many different false [TS]

  starts and there if i have a specific [TS]

  complaint about this episode would be [TS]

  although it tried of billion different [TS]

  things and sort of one after the other [TS]

  some of the more familiar enough that i [TS]

  felt like it was almost it was a little [TS]

  less audacious at times and a little [TS]

  more recycled and I don't know whether [TS]

  that's maybe that Neil cross just wasn't [TS]

  aware that he was exploring ideas that [TS]

  have already been explored but like the [TS]

  singing in this episode is kind of [TS]

  interesting and weird but it reminded me [TS]

  of gridlock where there was also a lot [TS]

  of singing and it was done better the [TS]

  satan pit very much an episode that i [TS]

  think is underrated from the tenant era [TS]

  and the ending of this is very [TS]

  reminiscent of that so I felt like I'd [TS]

  seen that before and that was kind of [TS]

  disappointing it's like recycle bits in [TS]

  this episode to even them wandering [TS]

  around on the planet at the beginning [TS]

  reminds me of the doctor and donna doing [TS]

  their thing in the bug goes on the back [TS]

  and yeah yeah I was a better episode [TS]

  this is remind me a better episodes so [TS]

  so several points for for for trying [TS]

  something new but it didn't work demands [TS]

  crap well Scott comes in there at the [TS]

  end just lays it down [TS]

  stupid what's that say five people [TS]

  products lying 10 out of 10 for style- [TS]

  several thousand points out of 10 [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah weird weird you know I [TS]

  don't mind the weird it this actually at [TS]

  this episode reminded me a little bit of [TS]

  farscape those who might have remembered [TS]

  that show that was a show that had [TS]

  episodes that were it was storytelling [TS]

  in a way that I just had never really [TS]

  experienced it was I think maybe [TS]

  something about being made in australia [TS]

  maybe maybe the writers were writing it [TS]

  in in a style that I'm not used to [TS]

  watching mostly American and some [TS]

  british TV and it reminded me of that a [TS]

  little bit too like I'm not quite sure [TS]

  what i'm watching this doesn't seem to [TS]

  be how you would tell this story at all [TS]

  and i like that because I feel [TS]

  completely disconnected from my [TS]

  expectations it just let me down in the [TS]

  end but but weird [TS]

  where does not bad we're just good it [TS]

  just didn't work [TS]

  alright let's move on to Cold War I [TS]

  written by Mark Gatiss this is a the [TS]

  eighties nuclear submarine episode with [TS]

  the return of the ice quarry for this [TS]

  can this scene get could this season get [TS]

  anymore i love that we have okay we've [TS]

  gone from the evil Wi-Fi [TS]

  yes to the strange alien planet with [TS]

  singing to the Cold War nuclear [TS]

  submarine episode i just i do enjoy as [TS]

  you were saying a little bit before [TS]

  about them being bold it does seem like [TS]

  they have really decided to cut loose [TS]

  and jump around a lot like totally if [TS]

  you mix in the first half of the season [TS]

  that their last fall [TS]

  you know in in some ways these all these [TS]

  standalone episodes it is sort of Steven [TS]

  Moffat saying i will show you just how [TS]

  versatile doctor who is which has always [TS]

  been one of the great things about [TS]

  doctor who is it can it can be anything [TS]

  from week to week and so this week we [TS]

  have this eighties Cold War nuclear [TS]

  submarine / monster movie plot that [TS]

  happens here with David Warner as the [TS]

  Russian scientists who likes listening [TS]

  to English pop on his Walkman which I [TS]

  actually I love David Warner and angry [TS]

  and I believe devil Seaworth as the [TS]

  captain of the submarine yes that's [TS]

  right the onion night he see sadly [TS]

  illiterate my latest [TS]

  still still still gets the sale about [TS]

  I'm very confused by your mixing of the [TS]

  game of thrones with Doctor Who so i [TS]

  watch this episode twice i actually when [TS]

  i watch the first time partly because i [TS]

  was watching with my family and it was [TS]

  and it was a little bit chaotic and [TS]

  we're eating dinner and and I I didn't [TS]

  like it at all and when I watched it the [TS]

  second time i actually liked it better i [TS]

  was i think my expectations were off [TS]

  when i watch this the first time I was [TS]

  really disappointed David Warner didn't [TS]

  have much to do but he has he has enough [TS]

  to do I think I you know he's a lot of [TS]

  fun and I like that the ice warriors [TS]

  just a strange thing because it's sort [TS]

  of like the fifth or sixth or seventh [TS]

  doctor who monster right its way down on [TS]

  the list hasn't been around since the [TS]

  early seventies and they tried to do [TS]

  something new with it [TS]

  this did feel like one of those episodes [TS]

  where they had sort of way too much [TS]

  story to pack in and so there are a lot [TS]

  of just jumping around and and and cut [TS]

  corners don't know what did what did you [TS]

  guys think [TS]

  but why should there be that much story [TS]

  for this kind of episode is the kind i [TS]

  was actually hoping for before I saw the [TS]

  episode like the kind where he's trapped [TS]

  in a confined space i guess the ones [TS]

  where they have low budget you don't [TS]

  like we're gonna have one set i guess [TS]

  that is not that low budget but it [TS]

  worked with a doctor is trapped in a [TS]

  space ship or vessel or transport of [TS]

  some kind and the whole story is going [TS]

  to take place there they're gonna be [TS]

  trapped in there is going to be danger [TS]

  and like this is epitomized for me for [TS]

  the episode whatever it was the thing [TS]

  it's got diamond dirt something midnight [TS]

  everybody anyway where was the creepy [TS]

  people talking to it like that's one [TS]

  room and all you need there is one room [TS]

  windows some blue screens and a good [TS]

  script and you know it's the doctor [TS]

  trapped in extreme situations gotta [TS]

  figure a way out [TS]

  I'm all thumbs up those episode great [TS]

  put them on a submarine do something [TS]

  wrong the submarine maybe there's an [TS]

  alien maybe the trap maybe the submarine [TS]

  doesn't have power and conveniently [TS]

  spark the TARDIS out and lot J and you [TS]

  can't get through it again [TS]

  he always does that I don't know why [TS]

  fine go with that but the ice warrior [TS]

  who I didn't know cause I i started [TS]

  watching doctor who you know with [TS]

  Pakistan so I had no idea was a previous [TS]

  villain and kinda like his motivation [TS]

  was never really clear I didn't know how [TS]

  to read him he's angry right if they [TS]

  tried to cattle prod sometimes and he's [TS]

  acting out of time because he's been [TS]

  frozen for 500 [TS]

  sneers right it's a weird combination [TS]

  where like he really essentially the [TS]

  speech the doctor gives is who he really [TS]

  holds a grudge is you're gonna be sorry [TS]

  he's really a mean guy and I like chain [TS]

  him up and I leave him alone that Clara [TS]

  has to go down there for some reason why [TS]

  did she have to always read the parent [TS]

  peril and then she runs yeah and it's [TS]

  just you know i like i like the the [TS]

  eighties vibe I liked most of the [TS]

  submarine crew i like the fact that the [TS]

  submarine was like disabled and you're [TS]

  endangering a submarine that's always [TS]

  good with the insurance kind of noise i [TS]

  would like to better doctor trapped in a [TS]

  weird situation thing [TS]

  yeah i mean middling for me I mean I I [TS]

  like cold war stuff a lot and I'm you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah yeah I think there's a deliberate [TS]

  attempt here to evoke things like hunt [TS]

  for red october which is a great movie [TS]

  but yeah it doesn't something didn't [TS]

  quite fire on all the right cylinders [TS]

  for me but there is a lot of like I'd [TS]

  like you like David Warner I thought he [TS]

  was great it was aight i enjoyed his [TS]

  character even if he is only used [TS]

  sporadically but i really enjoyed they [TS]

  had he had some good interplay with [TS]

  Claire I thought good stuff with Clara [TS]

  yeah and so again a maybe somewhat oddly [TS]

  constructed at times but overall i would [TS]

  give this one you know it's slightly [TS]

  better than average this is one of the [TS]

  things that I see some doctor who fans [TS]

  comment about a lot of these episodes of [TS]

  the season was it could have been a [TS]

  two-parter and I actually feel like most [TS]

  of the cases what it what what what I [TS]

  feel is that it should have been [TS]

  simplified not that it could have been a [TS]

  two-parter but that it just should have [TS]

  been simpler like skull back the ice [TS]

  warrior I feel like his motivations [TS]

  could have been simpler I I feel like it [TS]

  one bit scarier if he had actually like [TS]

  thought out or cracked out of the of the [TS]

  ice but instead there's just like as [TS]

  opposed to this one idiot similar George [TS]

  hey I want to accelerate the plot [TS]

  I want to see what is in this thing yes [TS]

  i will get shot by a firing squad for [TS]

  doing this but I'm just so that's [TS]

  curious right when it's like it wouldn't [TS]

  have been scarier if he had been you [TS]

  know slowly melting out the doctors like [TS]

  what what what you what did you find let [TS]

  me see it and and and they get there too [TS]

  late but instead they have that and [TS]

  that's kind of dumb and and that the [TS]

  cattle prod is he's a nice where he's a [TS]

  he's kind of a monster anyway and then [TS]

  and then the nuclear missiles to was [TS]

  sort of like bizarre [TS]

  like he figures out because the one guy [TS]

  wants to the one Russian officer wants [TS]

  to start Armageddon so he he gives the [TS]

  launch information to the I swear I [TS]

  don't know I just happen to have an [TS]

  eighties nuclear submarine episode you [TS]

  have to have launch codes and nuclear [TS]

  annihilation feature in the plot like it [TS]

  just as mandatory sure I just the way [TS]

  that they did it seemed you know I don't [TS]

  know I just kept feeling like there was [TS]

  a whole lot going on and that it could [TS]

  have been simpler and it would have been [TS]

  more effective [TS]

  that's true of many episodes in the [TS]

  season it there just like there are too [TS]

  many moving parts and i agree with you [TS]

  if anyone misses if anyone is suggesting [TS]

  I'm glad it and read these comments on [TS]

  the internet that these that many [TS]

  episodes have been too far as i know yes [TS]

  I've been simplified into a good one [TS]

  part because there can you imagine how [TS]

  bad some of these would have been two [TS]

  parts that are just you know their [TS]

  sprawling enough [TS]

  one thing about this when there's a name [TS]

  i would like to 22 this year into your [TS]

  minds and that is the name Michael pick [TS]

  what he is the production designer [TS]

  doctor who these days these episodes and [TS]

  this one in particular they look [TS]

  terrific [TS]

  there's made this they made the sub look [TS]

  as claustrophobic as they could within [TS]

  the limitations of actually shooting it [TS]

  on upset rather than and some [TS]

  decommissioned radioactive Russian sub [TS]

  with the water spraying everywhere is I [TS]

  mean that's gotta be super expensive [TS]

  because you actually did contain the [TS]

  water and not electrocute people so they [TS]

  spent a lot of money on that [TS]

  yeah and it looks it up the ice warriors [TS]

  yet the ancient ancient bad guy Robert [TS]

  rubber suit bad guys and I'm a very bad [TS]

  doctor who fan in that I cannot forgive [TS]

  some of the the sum of the crappy [TS]

  costuming and the rubber suit monsters [TS]

  and all that stuff from the seventies I [TS]

  thought that did a row and actually [TS]

  decent job of updating this this [TS]

  creature that I had absolutely no [TS]

  interest in seeing the it looked it [TS]

  looked kind of credible my life to [TS]

  concede that it's the that it's a suit [TS]

  of armor and there's a slithery lizardy [TS]

  monster inside it is instead of just a [TS]

  guy in a big bumbling suit which is what [TS]

  it was like Alex in the old days yeah [TS]

  yeah well except this guy [TS]

  you move around maybe they could have [TS]

  done a little bit more than just have [TS]

  some guy wearing a pair of gloves sort [TS]

  of dangling upside down off-camera put [TS]

  their hands on the guys heads to be [TS]

  scary but all that water in the [TS]

  submarine was a very expensive they [TS]

  couldn't afford more cgi i like it like [TS]

  he stays to the shadows so you can't see [TS]

  them click so that it's less complex cgi [TS]

  yeah but you guys are right this is a [TS]

  this is what they called back and the [TS]

  second doctor episodes this is what they [TS]

  called a base under siege story and so [TS]

  many of these episodes are not just [TS]

  efforts to show you the different kinds [TS]

  of things that doctor who can do in John [TS]

  but they're actually efforts to mimic [TS]

  episodes from the past you know it's [TS]

  almost it's almost a 50th anniversary [TS]

  thing in and of itself that the ok let's [TS]

  do it Patrick Troughton base under siege [TS]

  story with the ice warriors here you go [TS]

  let's do something that Douglas Adams [TS]

  must have been smoking something really [TS]

  interesting so we'll do the rings of [TS]

  akhaten O think things like that [TS]

  um I like this one it was it had sort of [TS]

  the hunt for red october kind of vibe [TS]

  not terribly substantial but it Pacey [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I I mean I liked it [TS]

  better the second time I wouldn't say [TS]

  that it was great i think the ending is [TS]

  also kind of questionable with the and [TS]

  they come and they get him and he [TS]

  decides to show mercy and you know but [TS]

  but uh the iie you're right i think [TS]

  doctor who has never looked better in [TS]

  any of these episodes and this is a good [TS]

  example of that and funny ending where [TS]

  it turns out the TARDIS is parked it in [TS]

  Antarctica at the South Pole and he [TS]

  needs a ride because they're at the [TS]

  North Pole [TS]

  alright let's move on to hide and I I [TS]

  want to do that because this is the the [TS]

  episode the Neil cross road that that [TS]

  made them set up and say you should [TS]

  write another episode which led to the [TS]

  rings of akhaten and I'm going to say it [TS]

  I think maybe this is the best this is [TS]

  certainly the best episode of Doctor Who [TS]

  in a couple years at least it is one of [TS]

  my favorites of [TS]

  the entire revival certainly of the [TS]

  Steven Moffat era but probably the [TS]

  entire revival I think doctor who has [TS]

  never looked better [TS]

  and although there are some problems i [TS]

  have some quibbles with some of the [TS]

  storytelling this is the episode that [TS]

  set in the seventies it's all these kind [TS]

  of orange and brown tones there's the [TS]

  there's the professor and his and his [TS]

  assistant who is an empath that they go [TS]

  and visit in a haunted house and i I [TS]

  just I loved everything about this [TS]

  episode really i like how it looks [TS]

  I like the the two pairs of characters [TS]

  working together and i even i even like [TS]

  that the kind of weird parallel universe [TS]

  that the doctor ends up in which is [TS]

  colored you know all blues and cold [TS]

  colors after all the warmth of the of [TS]

  the seventies mansion and I even like [TS]

  the twist where it's in true doctor who [TS]

  fashioned not actually a haunted house [TS]

  at all but involves something [TS]

  science-fictional so Dan you said that [TS]

  you really like this one too right I did [TS]

  a lot of the same reasons I mean the [TS]

  production values he said was great i [TS]

  thought it was effectively is very [TS]

  atmospheric yeah I mean and if there's [TS]

  one thing they've nailed the season it's [TS]

  really a while the atmosphere is great [TS]

  but this one managed to deliver i think [TS]

  on something that was both kind of eerie [TS]

  with the whole ghost story part of it [TS]

  and also that somehow connected back to [TS]

  even when even when that that arenas [TS]

  gets neutralize quote-unquote you know [TS]

  because it's explained what the what the [TS]

  background is behind it it's still [TS]

  creepy like the creatures that you deal [TS]

  with even if they're determined to [TS]

  eventually not be exactly harmful [TS]

  they're still creepy right and i think [TS]

  that's nice there's sort of a [TS]

  through-line there it's not like Oh [TS]

  silly to be worried about that thing all [TS]

  along and I appreciate that [TS]

  I mean there were you know little pieces [TS]

  pieces here and there there's some great [TS]

  casting again Dougray Scott as the [TS]

  professor i love the way i reminded me [TS]

  very the the earth atmosphere this [TS]

  reminds me very much of the BBC BBC show [TS]

  the hour which is a period drama and [TS]

  they do a nice job of listening to him [TS]

  and he's got the same accent as one of [TS]

  the characters on that shown is that [TS]

  he's got that nice Scottish brogue it [TS]

  reminds me of I mean it reminds me [TS]

  seventies Doctor Who to which is I think [TS]

  part of what we should mention [TS]

  Jessica Raine to who is the Midwife of [TS]

  call the midwife [TS]

  if you're not familiar it's big it's a [TS]

  big pretty show Americans logic she is [TS]

  the Midwife and I i turn my wife halfway [TS]

  through and i said i said i don't know [TS]

  how the story is going to end up in the [TS]

  last five minutes or so is not great but [TS]

  I said this is the best-looking doctor [TS]

  who episode i have ever seen like this [TS]

  this is like feature film quality look [TS]

  now they constrain it to the sets in the [TS]

  haunted house but the way it's shot the [TS]

  weight the weight of the it's colored [TS]

  just amazing work I find it kind of [TS]

  ironic that we're talking about lots of [TS]

  script problems this season as opposed [TS]

  to saying well you know it's very [TS]

  imaginative but they didn't have much of [TS]

  a budget so it looks terrible this is [TS]

  the reverse of that it's like there's [TS]

  some script problems but it looks great [TS]

  i'm sure that we get the holographic [TS]

  interface to the TARDIS back again [TS]

  that's a cause that's a callback to a [TS]

  david tennant christopher eccleston yeah [TS]

  and I just enjoyed that you know Claire [TS]

  gets argue with herself for a while [TS]

  yeah also as a as my want i will mention [TS]

  that i enjoyed that there were several [TS]

  elements in this episode that reminded [TS]

  me of supernatural [TS]

  Oh Dan well there's cold spots with [TS]

  ghosts and stuff like yeah there are [TS]

  creepy go six of the ends out there [TS]

  it turns out that it's a an alien or [TS]

  it's a time traveler who's lost in time [TS]

  but but has glommed onto these people [TS]

  because they're her ancestors and I and [TS]

  then also there are a pair of of aliens [TS]

  who have gotten separated i guess [TS]

  because of the space-time displacement [TS]

  I'm unclear on that one but they they [TS]

  wanna they wanna all the spooky stuff is [TS]

  actually just an alien that mrs. its [TS]

  mate i just wanted to be loved just [TS]

  wants to be like I can all scary face or [TS]

  even scary ugly aliens want to be loved [TS]

  so that's that's at and I like the fact [TS]

  that it's this time traveling person [TS]

  who's gotten kinda lost in time and he [TS]

  does the whole thing where he takes [TS]

  again taking a page sort of from the the [TS]

  recipe Davis episode he takes the he [TS]

  takes Clara from the beginning of life [TS]

  on the earth to the end of life on the [TS]

  earth that while he's taking pictures [TS]

  which is a nice little montage is he [TS]

  figures out that this will this a [TS]

  astronaut is caught in [TS]

  a very slow time parallel time thinking [TS]

  if I could jump in here about Clara arm [TS]

  when we see her at the first half of the [TS]

  series in the solemn of the Daleks and [TS]

  the Snowman she is just so ridiculously [TS]

  competent yeah it's amazing here all the [TS]

  way through this especially in this [TS]

  episode [TS]

  she's i want i won't say generic because [TS]

  I I there's something about her [TS]

  performance that I simply adore I think [TS]

  she's the best companion actress the [TS]

  show's had since 2005 but but she's not [TS]

  the super woman she is a she is an [TS]

  ordinary girl who is it who rises to the [TS]

  occasion sometimes it gets scared [TS]

  sometimes I I get what you guys were [TS]

  saying earlier about her being a bit of [TS]

  a cipher and how the actor has to pour a [TS]

  lot into it i love with jenna-louise [TS]

  Coleman does with this role even when [TS]

  there's not much on the page [TS]

  I i still am just sort of watching I I [TS]

  like jenna-louise Coleman a lot I I have [TS]

  a theory about Clara which is that in [TS]

  some ways she's written to be the [TS]

  perfect assistant assistant the perfect [TS]

  companion so she's kind of taking all [TS]

  the boxes in a way to just sort of like [TS]

  be and that's part of that mystery of [TS]

  what is she and why she the impossible [TS]

  girl and all that and and so she does [TS]

  read a lot different than like austin in [TS]

  the Sun along of the Daleks super [TS]

  knowledgeable and super snarky in a way [TS]

  that Clara isn't but the pair's the [TS]

  pairing in this episode 2 of clearing [TS]

  the doctor and I guess this is the first [TS]

  episode they shot together after the [TS]

  Christmas special so this is the first [TS]

  episode where she was acting as the [TS]

  modern-day Clara I i don't know i like [TS]

  that i like the interaction there and [TS]

  then the interactions across the the the [TS]

  repairs where the doctors talking to the [TS]

  professor and and Clara is talking to [TS]

  Emma about you know about their they're [TS]

  sort of roles in these in these this two [TS]

  sets relationships i thought this [TS]

  episode was a good demonstration of the [TS]

  the opposite of what the previous ones [TS]

  had done where what happens when you [TS]

  take away maybe thirty forty fifty [TS]

  percent of you [TS]

  our story elements and you're left with [TS]

  a few haunted house one single mystery [TS]

  what the explanation is for the haunted [TS]

  house to people in the house one [TS]

  relationship between them [TS]

  dr. relationship with a partner maybe i [TS]

  would leave lose the lovesick monster [TS]

  creature [TS]

  yeah like to drop that one out but other [TS]

  than that like there's not that many [TS]

  elements there's one there's one set [TS]

  there's very simple threats simple [TS]

  explanations for them [TS]

  you don't have to move to seven [TS]

  different locations to resolve this plot [TS]

  over everyone you have that room to [TS]

  breathe then you can you know flesh out [TS]

  the relationship between the professor [TS]

  in the system and flesh out the [TS]

  different ways that Clara can feel [TS]

  instead of just being you know smoky and [TS]

  pouty and clever having a couple you [TS]

  know and that it just gives that the [TS]

  show room to breathe I thought and yeah [TS]

  it's nice that it was you know a single [TS]

  set or even was a real house for real [TS]

  said whatever you did it didn't look [TS]

  good you didn't have that lots of green [TS]

  screen in bed cg and everything and just [TS]

  let the show breathe when you get a nice [TS]

  episode right there is really nice quiet [TS]

  scenes with dialogue in the first half [TS]

  of this with the various characters in [TS]

  the haunted house that are so great and [TS]

  not kind of insanely fast paced and [TS]

  you're right it does it does breathe [TS]

  because it's a simple story [TS]

  Scott did you have a verdict on this one [TS]

  I say this one's good [TS]

  yup alright i don't want Clara but [TS]

  others in the hell is on any of them but [TS]

  wow what [TS]

  that's insanity I don't like her I think [TS]

  that the ib the actress center is a [TS]

  lovely person to find why do i why do [TS]

  you hate generally is Coleman personally [TS]

  personally why do you [TS]

  well she did snub me once but that's [TS]

  some free she knows what she did right [TS]

  Scott exact option I don't need to tell [TS]

  her she's the impossible girl she knows [TS]

  I I i just have a problem with her [TS]

  character not the character itself [TS]

  I feel like they're building a while I [TS]

  mean it's the we saw the finale so [TS]

  they're building up to this big mystery [TS]

  and wished it really reveal in the [TS]

  finale and I think that ultimately it [TS]

  will just be a disappointment and that [TS]

  her character we'll just serve to annoy [TS]

  me if you're expecting her to be special [TS]

  because she's special in some way the [TS]

  answer is that's not it she special [TS]

  because she makes a decision to do [TS]

  something that leads to this but it's [TS]

  not like there is a super [TS]

  secret about why she's so exceptional [TS]

  although that's sort of refreshing in [TS]

  some ways after some of the other [TS]

  companion stories we've had but all [TS]

  right Scott she knows what she did she [TS]

  does and I don't affect they keep [TS]

  telling the look she's so special she so [TS]

  competent she could do everything well [TS]

  that's because she had all the knowledge [TS]

  of computers downloaded into her brain [TS]

  accidentally it doesn't hurt before we [TS]

  leave this episode on the subject of [TS]

  mysteries there's another aspect of this [TS]

  i like that you know we have the central [TS]

  mystery of the Haunted apparition shape [TS]

  and what the professor is investigating [TS]

  and they're going to give one [TS]

  explanation for that and the explanation [TS]

  doesn't have to be like oh I never [TS]

  would've thought of that because it's [TS]

  kind of not obvious but like it makes [TS]

  sense within the context of time travel [TS]

  but as Dan said even after they [TS]

  explained to you and it makes sense it's [TS]

  still sort of creepy and that's what you [TS]

  want you don't you don't have to kill [TS]

  yourself trying to think of something [TS]

  that's so clever the no viewer will ever [TS]

  think of it because then ends up being [TS]

  absurd or stupid you know give an [TS]

  explanation for this [TS]

  and once you know the explanation like [TS]

  ooh that's still kind of unsettling and [TS]

  weird you know [TS]

  yeah that that's what I look for in a [TS]

  doctor who premise and it sometimes [TS]

  they're just trying too hard to out [TS]

  clever themselves you don't need to do [TS]

  that like it can it can be almost kind [TS]

  of obvious or these obvious in [TS]

  retrospect as long as there's something [TS]

  to it like a Twilight Zone episode or [TS]

  something we're right the big 10 members [TS]

  like I was some crazy twist or whatever [TS]

  but just somewhat unsettling and that's [TS]

  fine too i have to say that there's a [TS]

  doctor who fans like to speculate [TS]

  additional complaining about how it's [TS]

  not as as good as it was when it was 6 [TS]

  25 minute episodes of the genesis of the [TS]

  Daleks what another doctor who episodes [TS]

  like your doctor who fans like to fret [TS]

  about our when will the doctor be [TS]

  leaving and when will cool the next [TS]

  showrunner be to replace Steven Moffat [TS]

  who will that be and will be Mark Davis [TS]

  will be somebody else and i will say [TS]

  that if I had a vote today of the people [TS]

  who've been involved with Doctor Who up [TS]

  to now I think I might actually say Neil [TS]

  cross I know he's got Luther and he [TS]

  might have other things on his mind [TS]

  might not want to do it but i only say [TS]

  that because this was a very good [TS]

  episode that showed his kind of [TS]

  storytelling in a way that wasn't all [TS]

  frantic and packed in and yeah he wrote [TS]

  that really crazy episode the rings of [TS]

  akhaten but i would say there [TS]

  that I would cite that as an example of [TS]

  him being willing to try crazy stuff so [TS]

  you put the two together and that's not [TS]

  a bad combination so you know maybe just [TS]

  reminded me of a blink in some ways I [TS]

  mean there's a similar sort of [TS]

  atmosphere a similar sort of i mean [TS]

  you've got the time era to write like [TS]

  they're playing around with a little bit [TS]

  i don't i just i'd there was something [TS]

  very atmospheric and effective about [TS]

  that in you know playing obviously i [TS]

  think is the most people probably agree [TS]

  the one of the best if not the best [TS]

  episode since the reboot yeah so you [TS]

  know if that's your your product you [TS]

  have that sort of the president you're [TS]

  looking at then this is a pretty good [TS]

  audition yeah i agree that's why i asked [TS]

  him to read another episode it was rings [TS]

  of akhaten but you know hey this was a [TS]

  good episode can't win them all [TS]

  no all right I'm gonna take a minute [TS]

  away from our discussion of Doctor Who [TS]

  to talk about our sponsor yes it's hard [TS]

  to believe but it's true the [TS]

  incomparable has a sponsor and it's a [TS]

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  now what book am I going to recommend to [TS]

  you this is a doctor who episode of the [TS]

  incomparable so i'm going to recommend [TS]

  to Doctor Who related audiobooks one of [TS]

  them is shotta which if you don't know [TS]

  is the lost episode of the Tom Baker [TS]

  years of doctor who it was written by [TS]

  Douglas Adams but due to an industrial [TS]

  action as they call it which is [TS]

  basically a strike [TS]

  they shot all of the all the outdoor [TS]

  stuff and then they were supposed to go [TS]

  into the studio to shoot the rest of the [TS]

  episode and all the studio state chance [TS]

  were on strike so they never finished [TS]

  the episode it's become this legendary [TS]

  lost episode of Doctor Who so Gareth [TS]

  Roberts who works on the modern Doctor [TS]

  Who staff as a script editor [TS]

  took douglas adams Original Screenplay [TS]

  and adapted it into a novel sort of in [TS]

  the style of douglas adams and the [TS]

  audiobook is narrated by lolla Ward who [TS]

  played romana the companion in that [TS]

  episode of Doctor Who so shotta just [TS]

  came out [TS]

  narrated by lal award SH รก da you can [TS]

  check it out in the show notes and it's [TS]

  on audible.com and then the other thing [TS]

  I'll allah i'll plug is something called [TS]

  hornet's nest [TS]

  it's an again a Tom Baker this is [TS]

  notable because for the first time in [TS]

  decades Tom Baker came back and narrated [TS]

  this series of audiobooks called [TS]

  hornet's nest written by Paul Mars that [TS]

  are not quite audiobooks and not quite [TS]

  full cast audio plays there somewhere in [TS]

  between features Tom Baker it also [TS]

  features richard franklin who played my [TS]

  gates in the original series and several [TS]

  other actors and it's a really [TS]

  interesting weird creepy series of audio [TS]

  adventures starting the fourth doctor so [TS]

  those are just two of the many many [TS]

  Doctor Who titles including books read [TS]

  by david tennant and matt smith that [TS]

  you'll find on audible so once again if [TS]

  you want that free 30-day trial and a [TS]

  free audiobook go to audible podcast.com [TS]

  slash and comparable and sign up that [TS]

  will make them very happy that will make [TS]

  us very happy anyway back to the latest [TS]

  and greatest doctor who now journey to [TS]

  the center CNT re because it's English [TS]

  of the TARDIS speaking of you can't win [TS]

  em all [TS]

  alright the neyser out this is the [TS]

  episode in which these guys on a salvage [TS]

  ship turn on a big magnet which breaks [TS]

  the TARDIS I guess because this is the [TS]

  doctor turned everything off because the [TS]

  dark so that the cleric and drive the [TS]

  TARDIS yeah because if you're going to [TS]

  have you're gonna hand over your time [TS]

  machine to someone who's never piloted [TS]

  the time she turned off the shade all [TS]

  the shield yeah because that makes [TS]

  perfect sense [TS]

  sure why not and and it does something [TS]

  terrible that causes the starkest to [TS]

  supposedly self-destructive in 30 [TS]

  minutes so the doctor essentially [TS]

  forcibly kidnaps the crew of the salvage [TS]

  ship telling them that he's going to [TS]

  blow up the target is that they don't [TS]

  help [TS]

  I'm fine clara who is lost somewhere [TS]

  inside there's also a scene at the [TS]

  beginning of this where they find they [TS]

  see some feet underneath the TARDIS like [TS]

  somebody's been crushed by the TARDIS [TS]

  and then the doctor appears from behind [TS]

  them and it was unclear to me what that [TS]

  was and whether that was supposed to be [TS]

  the doctor Wicked Witch of the weather [TS]

  which it was a witch featurette up [TS]

  that's right it was a end and then they [TS]

  go through and there are there are times [TS]

  amies wandering around in the TARDIS and [TS]

  the TARDIS goes on forever and and and [TS]

  chip I think this might actually be from [TS]

  your podcast that we finally get to see [TS]

  the inside of the TARDIS which consists [TS]

  largely of quarters and one tracking [TS]

  shot where she walks past a bunch of [TS]

  entryways where there's been a green [TS]

  screen and matted in is like a picture [TS]

  of a swimming pool and a picture of a [TS]

  library [TS]

  we've been waiting for ages to see the [TS]

  inside of the TARDIS and it's Huey Lewis [TS]

  and the news heart and soul video but [TS]

  it's just really boring the library was [TS]

  nice the library the library was nice [TS]

  and very tall and i like that scene [TS]

  where she's going past all those it's [TS]

  like you know sometimes your imagination [TS]

  is better than me then the reality or at [TS]

  least the budget constraint reality of [TS]

  my I found in in the Christmas invasion [TS]

  I actually backed up and watch that [TS]

  scene of david tennant in the wardrobe [TS]

  picking his clothes out like a million [TS]

  times being like a look at their spiral [TS]

  staircase and it's all this and that was [TS]

  it that we had seen other than when Amy [TS]

  runs around in the neil gaiman episode [TS]

  the doctor's wife so we get here and [TS]

  it's kinda boring inside there it's just [TS]

  running around and corridors with time [TS]

  zombies [TS]

  I I think use that you you nail it would [TS]

  be sometimes your imagination is better [TS]

  and i think that's that's one thing that [TS]

  it's really hard for a lot of TV shows [TS]

  to realize especially things like the [TS]

  Doctor Who which has such a long history [TS]

  behind it is sometimes your imagination [TS]

  is better sometimes you don't need to [TS]

  show everything and the suggestion of [TS]

  something especially that works great in [TS]

  in a horror to write I think there's a [TS]

  lot of times where it's like when you [TS]

  let the person's imagination fill in the [TS]

  scary thing as opposed to showing them [TS]

  be scary thing which is a right I in a [TS]

  rubber suit or a crappy CGI monster much [TS]

  scarier when your mind is filling in the [TS]

  blanks so the same way here and there [TS]

  stuff i don't know this is a problem [TS]

  with you know I think they're there some [TS]

  coming [TS]

  this temptation of it's the 50th [TS]

  anniversary we gotta pull out all the [TS]

  stops yes [TS]

  so we're getting the inside the target [TS]

  is they're talking about the name of the [TS]

  doctors will get to in a little bit all [TS]

  this stuff where it's like you don't you [TS]

  lose more by bounding it to something in [TS]

  reality now [TS]

  oh and and possibly hanging yourself and [TS]

  later sure the TARDIS is infinite you [TS]

  can probably get away with having all [TS]

  sorts of you know additional things here [TS]

  on down the road but the same time it [TS]

  just I don't know it's to me it is it is [TS]

  it's no matter what it would have been [TS]

  it would have been anticlimactic it [TS]

  would not have lived up to it like the [TS]

  fields of trenzalore like the we don't [TS]

  need an explanation of that is just [TS]

  great as a mystery right guys right but [TS]

  so that was my main problem with this [TS]

  episode is what I accept the TARDIS is [TS]

  infinite on the inside right so why [TS]

  would the doctor bother you know [TS]

  Shanghai Shanghai three barely competent [TS]

  but i salvaged guys to help him look for [TS]

  someone in the targets that he has been [TS]

  flying around in hundreds of years and [TS]

  he has seemingly no idea where anything [TS]

  is either all of course that he says the [TS]

  target is reconfiguring yourself fine [TS]

  whatever but it just doesn't make any [TS]

  sense there's no reason for him to bring [TS]

  them with those three had to learn an [TS]

  important lesson about turning your [TS]

  brother into a robot haha tomorrow the [TS]

  end of the story it's like that and that [TS]

  was that don't do that there's a couple [TS]

  things in there that are you see there [TS]

  are things in their great ingredients [TS]

  right i like the idea of someone being [TS]

  lost inside the TARDIS because it's huge [TS]

  and I like the idea even that the doctor [TS]

  doesn't know all the way around it [TS]

  because we've established that it's [TS]

  basically a living entity right and it's [TS]

  temperamental [TS]

  I mean I'm okay with that I even like [TS]

  the fact that he that he basically tries [TS]

  to blackmail these guys you know [TS]

  threaten them into helping him even if [TS]

  it turns out to be a bluff because again [TS]

  it's that edge line that we've seen the [TS]

  dr walk in the past where it's well [TS]

  sometimes he's kind of insane and I i [TS]

  kinda like when they veer into some of [TS]

  the darker stuff for him and we haven't [TS]

  seen that as much with matt smith as we [TS]

  did say toward the end of the david [TS]

  tennant run but there's there's [TS]

  definitely stuff in there their [TS]

  ingredients i like the problem is yeah [TS]

  they're connected kind of haphazardly [TS]

  and the stuff that doesn't really make [TS]

  any sense i I couldn't figure out [TS]

  I got to the end of like you know where [TS]

  they had the times on bees and was like [TS]

  amazing amazing what were these guys [TS]

  what happened [TS]

  um I like the idea that one of them was [TS]

  Claire all burned up that was a that was [TS]

  devastated is fine to me [TS]

  Wow no not not in the way that Scott [TS]

  would have meant that if he had said no [TS]

  no it was an interesting twist although [TS]

  there are things about that sort of [TS]

  don't make any sense either [TS]

  well like a clerestory is very confused [TS]

  and I'm always looking for something to [TS]

  latch onto it as her arc so whenever [TS]

  they hinted the fact that shit her story [TS]

  is that she doesn't know that she's [TS]

  constantly dying the doctors trying to [TS]

  hide that from her [TS]

  that's a reasonable tension that they [TS]

  kind of let sputters that like she could [TS]

  if she had kept dying and that the [TS]

  doctor was tortured by the fact that he [TS]

  knew that she was going to keep dying [TS]

  and it's hard to like hang out with [TS]

  somebody when you know okay well in 10 [TS]

  minutes you're probably going to die but [TS]

  I really don't want you to know that I [TS]

  going to meet you in the next episode [TS]

  anyway but they didn't didn't really [TS]

  stick to that but in this episode was [TS]

  there a little bit of our he's like I [TS]

  know that that's you and you're probably [TS]

  gonna die and I know it's tough to keep [TS]

  going on if you know what's gonna happen [TS]

  to you but just you know we got to kind [TS]

  of go with the flow air and you might be [TS]

  printed [TS]

  no wait i'm confused that's totally [TS]

  different [TS]

  also that they you're going to be fine [TS]

  and look fine until at some point you [TS]

  instantly turned into a molten lava a [TS]

  monster zombie time [TS]

  cotton is not true for all of us well [TS]

  that's a place where special effects are [TS]

  limiting factor you can only you know [TS]

  yeah i was just kind of hoping that that [TS]

  could you not tell this and have them [TS]

  like it become increasingly kind of [TS]

  damage looking and and be like you know [TS]

  we're not going to make it now where we [TS]

  know we're doomed and and then they [TS]

  realize that these guys are them but [TS]

  instead it was sort of like you know I [TS]

  like the scene where they're locked out [TS]

  there surrounded on both sides and [TS]

  they're in this fatal chamber [TS]

  I mean that's that's pretty good right [TS]

  that's not a bad little set-piece that [TS]

  they look like well what do we do we [TS]

  have zombies over there and zombies over [TS]

  here and we're standing in this fatal [TS]

  radiation this is not good armies to the [TS]

  left of us sometimes the invite us [TS]

  exactly as the you know it's a classic I [TS]

  think Shakespeare did something about [TS]

  that anyway [TS]

  the star was learning to us to take that [TS]

  clarity Anchorhead and have its memory [TS]

  erased the end of it [TS]

  yeah I did out i liked actually kind of [TS]

  liked the ending just misses I know any [TS]

  people could say well it's just a reset [TS]

  button and [TS]

  that but we saw those a very literal [TS]

  reset but yea big friendly button and it [TS]

  we see it at the beginning and it comes [TS]

  back at the end and it i don't think [TS]

  that's much different than having you [TS]

  know data see the three dots on Rikers [TS]

  collar and say oh ok and you know that [TS]

  sort of not the point and I felt like [TS]

  they had set up in the beginning enough [TS]

  that it didn't bother me in the end when [TS]

  when he rewrites the past the brothers [TS]

  though I didn't like that that was that [TS]

  seems that was such a bizarre story [TS]

  about the brother who they told is an [TS]

  Android and is always one extra plotline [TS]

  always one too many [TS]

  yeah that did not really i mean if you [TS]

  just had the three brothers being you [TS]

  know hijack the android thing was [TS]

  totally superfluous it really like you [TS]

  could take that out there and it would [TS]

  it would it would not harm the story [TS]

  they don't they don't need the conflict [TS]

  like the three brothers can be [TS]

  characters and companions but they [TS]

  should be like one plot entity they [TS]

  don't need to have their own [TS]

  interpersonal conflict because we don't [TS]

  care about the resolution between those [TS]

  two brothers aren't characters that were [TS]

  invested in so we're not like all those [TS]

  guys you really make up because it's not [TS]

  you know so don't don't add conflict and [TS]

  tension between two characters that [TS]

  we're never going to see again that we [TS]

  don't care about that's just a waste it [TS]

  does the doctor really need to be put in [TS]

  a position where he's a kidnapping these [TS]

  guys and lying to them and locking them [TS]

  in the target so that he held me there [TS]

  if they're going for his are three [TS]

  angles like like damn was saying with [TS]

  later tennis then find that you you [TS]

  could build up to it but they didn't [TS]

  they never really committed to that to [TS]

  that trajectory for the season [TS]

  yeah they didn't they didn't earn that [TS]

  you know I just don't I don't think that [TS]

  that's consistent with matt smith and [TS]

  how he's played the doctor at all i [TS]

  think that's I think that's and he tries [TS]

  to stay later I was just fooling you and [TS]

  thinking that but i think that's kind of [TS]

  kind of bad and I think it's bad I have [TS]

  it I have it it's a call back to the [TS]

  very first episode he kidnapped him just [TS]

  like yeah that is barbarous just as mean [TS]

  as William Hartnell was its 50th [TS]

  anniversary happy anniversary everyone i [TS]

  had to restore by doctor who christmas [TS]

  have some well play that's why you're [TS]

  here [TS]

  well Matt Smith does have like he did [TS]

  hit the darkest matt smith has [TS]

  depression because after the whole Amy [TS]

  Pond thing he supposedly you know it [TS]

  goes off as you know boy what do i do to [TS]

  these poor people or whatever that's [TS]

  another one of my complaints about this [TS]

  season is that like that the Clara ark [TS]

  was like [TS]

  this season is going to be someone or [TS]

  something has to pull him out of his [TS]

  funk because he's like oh I totally [TS]

  screwed over that pond girl and Rory and [TS]

  everything what kind of person am i what [TS]

  am i doing to these people like that is [TS]

  that's his dark side or at least so far [TS]

  we seem as Darkseid is being depressed [TS]

  and the doctor is kind of a terrible [TS]

  person and bad things happen when you're [TS]

  around him and we needed something this [TS]

  season is like who would pull him out of [TS]

  this but it you know within 1 episode is [TS]

  like a look at this chipper young girl [TS]

  she's so cute and I'm fine I'm back to [TS]

  being the doctor and I didn't like that [TS]

  either [TS]

  speaking of overall season things and [TS]

  I'll just take these three guys who will [TS]

  be of no help into an incredibly [TS]

  dangerous situation for no real reason [TS]

  yes and there no he'll be fine and that [TS]

  guy's not a robot by the way what huh i [TS]

  know i would you do that to your brother [TS]

  that that seems excessively meaningful [TS]

  that's like a party a party game like [TS]

  when you're drawing marker on people's [TS]

  faces when I fall asleep or you make [TS]

  selling is that I mean that's mean but [TS]

  that's not excessively meeting with [TS]

  where it's been pointed out in the [TS]

  chatroom that this allows them to have [TS]

  their their timely and important [TS]

  anti-bullying message [TS]

  don't don't tell that kid that these are [TS]

  road all your little brother he's an [TS]

  anti-rape you might believe it it might [TS]

  be funny for the first few years but [TS]

  eventually it becomes a source of tennis [TS]

  like the equivalent of telling your [TS]

  little brother these adopted right like [TS]

  oh yeah mom and dad don't love you [TS]

  because you're a robot that let me get [TS]

  this straight there's a horrible [TS]

  accident [TS]

  your father was killed and your brother [TS]

  is brain-damaged what do you do you [TS]

  mainly on the list of rain damage but [TS]

  yea spaces lonely and this is not a lot [TS]

  of entertainment [TS]

  wow we got to make do with what you guys [TS]

  all right let's let's um let's move on [TS]

  that was not for everyone ah what's next [TS]

  the Crimson horror by markets which is [TS]

  the the penny dreadful right it's it's a [TS]

  there's a there's a horrible secret in [TS]

  the factory and they go there with the [TS]

  and told in an interesting way where we [TS]

  we don't see the doctor for a while and [TS]

  turns out the doctors already been there [TS]

  and has been captured and has been [TS]

  dipped in a terrible substance that is [TS]

  paralyzed him but it's the [TS]

  investigations of Madame vastra Jenny [TS]

  and [TS]

  tracks the are our intrepid team that we [TS]

  last saw in the the Christmas special [TS]

  so we got the Victorian era mystery [TS]

  another game of thrones cross over here [TS]

  because the the villain in this [TS]

  Oh Diana Rigg diana rigg yes I i kinda [TS]

  liked this episode because it was kind [TS]

  of silly and silly and ridiculous and [TS]

  fun in a way i get again they did a good [TS]

  job of nailing a time period you got [TS]

  that sort of victorian-era and I love [TS]

  Jean right it's it's that it's that kind [TS]

  of story it's the very Victorian kind of [TS]

  right right and I and I enjoy the [TS]

  secondary cast who we've kind of grown [TS]

  to know now right do Madame vastra Jenny [TS]

  and Strax I i enjoy their appearances [TS]

  they have a good dynamic I really really [TS]

  like strikes like anything with tracks [TS]

  in it and so you know for me I felt like [TS]

  I enjoyed the first ten you know 10 15 [TS]

  minutes when you don't really get into [TS]

  having the doctor and then that to me [TS]

  that makes it more satisfying when they [TS]

  eventually do get him cleaned up and he [TS]

  gets back into shape there and I mean I [TS]

  think your monitor is that we've been [TS]

  less like well this time the [TS]

  Frankenstein monster red hulk right [TS]

  around sure good [TS]

  nice try John good comic book guy [TS]

  reference yeah I'm so yeah I i was a fan [TS]

  I enjoyed it [TS]

  yeah I love those characters i mean i am [TS]

  the more the more Strax and Madame [TS]

  vastra you get better and Jenny actually [TS]

  takes the lead here which is nice [TS]

  because she was kind of the the least [TS]

  focused on of those three characters I'd [TS]

  say and you know I just [TS]

  it's a declare is at the back here [TS]

  Claire kinda doesn't have anything to do [TS]

  here but as Scott would view that as a [TS]

  plus right i infected you know but I I [TS]

  don't know it was it was a it was fun it [TS]

  was it was ridiculous right because [TS]

  she's got a rocket I'm not sure they're [TS]

  how the rocket technology comes to be [TS]

  that she's got it is a simple think [TS]

  you're right you're right where the [TS]

  Zeppelin's they just need some more [TS]

  Zeppelin's I didn't realize I was just [TS]

  looking at the wikipedia entry be the [TS]

  actress who plays diana reyes daughter [TS]

  is actually going on with sorry yeah oh [TS]

  yeah and uh and there's a lead [TS]

  yeah and uh and there's a lead [TS]

  there's like a brain leach that's behind [TS]

  it all which and y know I never liked [TS]

  you [TS]

  chepa sodes I don't like little beach [TS]

  sonra yeah i like the bug episodes will [TS]

  go with it's a big bug or something with [TS]

  the leech episodes or it's just like [TS]

  this little and then you feel bad for [TS]

  what it's on the ground like a little [TS]

  like a little shrimp crawling around you [TS]

  like that was a that was our existential [TS]

  threat that blind girl just had an [TS]

  amazing game didn't she [TS]

  yeah she's lashing out at stake I I am I [TS]

  i got a good props to I got your props [TS]

  to diana rigg for being willing to take [TS]

  the the the leech prosthetic in stride [TS]

  she's classy she's a classy lady yeah so [TS]

  the first leash things might this was my [TS]

  favorite of the season [TS]

  I I swear it was so much fun it was it [TS]

  was it was it was it had some of the [TS]

  weirdness in not making sense of the [TS]

  rings of akhaten but it was just pure [TS]

  fun [TS]

  yeah i agree that's all I ask for in my [TS]

  doctor who is I asked for [TS]

  I asked for fun that doesn't make me [TS]

  angry yet though this was this was yeah [TS]

  that I think that's exactly it is is I [TS]

  don't I don't necessarily feel like it [TS]

  had that the kind of like the the tip [TS]

  the depth or the where the flavor of [TS]

  something like hide but it was i I just [TS]

  had a fun time the entire time I was [TS]

  just sort of like oh this is great look [TS]

  at those characters running around [TS]

  there's a of course there's a leech [TS]

  that's kill you know and I I didn't have [TS]

  to i didn't get upset it's like well I [TS]

  mad that was leached that's not you know [TS]

  I my expectations weren't I was just [TS]

  having fun watching it did of course [TS]

  there was a brain leach at the end that [TS]

  was why not and there's a rocket that's [TS]

  going to take the leech the red dye [TS]

  thing and covered the planet and read [TS]

  why not why not why not indeed because [TS]

  of the doctor he stopped because he [TS]

  stops at all that's true that's true i [TS]

  like i like that of course uh at the end [TS]

  of this episode there's also the very [TS]

  strange scene where they go they go home [TS]

  and the kids that Clara is watching say [TS]

  hey there's pictures of you in the past [TS]

  but we have well bad bad pacing in that [TS]

  part but again clearly something that [TS]

  was tacked on to lead into the next yeah [TS]

  my understanding is that there was a [TS]

  scene about that maybe [TS]

  Camille games episode and it was too [TS]

  long so they moved it and inserted [TS]

  something there but anyway Crimson [TS]

  horror and Markakis as a lifelong fan of [TS]

  Doctor Who and somebody who's written [TS]

  from the very first season he wrote the [TS]

  charles dickens episode the unquiet dead [TS]

  for for the Christopher Eccleston's [TS]

  season when he gets a lot of crap from [TS]

  Doctor Who fans who generally I think a [TS]

  lot of them don't like his work [TS]

  I think he's hit and miss but this I [TS]

  thought was a hit and I also like the [TS]

  unquiet dead so you know and I thought [TS]

  Cold War was ok but this was I thought [TS]

  his his winner from this season I just [TS]

  thought it was a lot of fun [TS]

  yeah Jason I like your idea of Neil [TS]

  cross being the next show runner but i [TS]

  think the odds-on favourites clearly [TS]

  canis clearly let's talk about nightmare [TS]

  in silver which is a neil gaiman episode [TS]

  now course neil gaiman comic book author [TS]

  novelist generally a beloved writer Matt [TS]

  town he is a raconteur yes absolutely [TS]

  and I love people love him and people [TS]

  loved the doctor's wife which is an [TS]

  episode that he wrote for 4 last season [TS]

  huh [TS]

  Scott didn't like it some i liked it i [TS]

  don't think it was the best episode of [TS]

  that season but which a lot of people do [TS]

  but i liked it and and it turns out [TS]

  nightmare in silver seems to be an [TS]

  episode that is a quite polarizing I [TS]

  liked it [TS]

  I'll just say that I don't get the [TS]

  Cybermen i'll just say that well the [TS]

  Cybermen nobody likes the cyber haven't [TS]

  we already Cybermen fans out there [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  haha i like maybe as your head if you [TS]

  like this I like I can't it's a podcast [TS]

  you can see the hand i still can i still [TS]

  can't entirely distinguish them from [TS]

  Daleks at best they're charmingly [TS]

  incompetent I don't think they're [TS]

  charming at I so here's the thing this [TS]

  this episode was not great but I thought [TS]

  it was fine i thought it was actually [TS]

  kind of a your average fine doctor who [TS]

  episode in that there are some things to [TS]

  like it's not ever going to be on my [TS]

  all-time best list [TS]

  i like the little cyber mites the like [TS]

  little quirky / calling silver cyber [TS]

  things i like war [TS]

  Warwick Davis in this is great I thought [TS]

  he was fantastic brian is trying to be [TS]

  accounted little Dinklage there the [TS]

  put-upon royal short person [TS]

  yeah i actually was thinking I was [TS]

  thinking player cards right war with you [TS]

  too can end the game of thrones i don't [TS]

  know i mean is there anybody in I see [TS]

  more Davis and a lot of things over the [TS]

  years is there anything that he's really [TS]

  terrible in like the most part he's [TS]

  pretty solid he was given a good party [TS]

  like the party was good this is a clear [TS]

  our little right saw him like underneath [TS]

  the little chest thing on my god they're [TS]

  not doing this but I was satisfied with [TS]

  his eventual rolling the proceedings [TS]

  yeah i mean though it be he starts as [TS]

  the you know guy i've heard that under [TS]

  the chessboard you think and you are [TS]

  supposed to think I boy and over the [TS]

  course of time you know it it's revealed [TS]

  he actually is which I don't know did it [TS]

  was anybody surprised when that was [TS]

  revealed because i know is i don't [TS]

  really but like I like they gave it [TS]

  actually gave him lying a few things to [TS]

  say that he I think he has a certain [TS]

  gravitas now that he didn't have his [TS]

  like your green wicked or whatever and [TS]

  you're willow yeah well I really liked [TS]

  him and I'll defend below and his part [TS]

  of it [TS]

  sure but Dad gravitas was not like i [TS]

  said i got a 29 well i think yeah [TS]

  exactly i thought they weren't shooting [TS]

  your grabbed us nobody here he's a he's [TS]

  a believable you know emperor who's kind [TS]

  of leg dip and doesn't want to be the [TS]

  Emperor for a while right use cartridges [TS]

  an old story and all that yeah I like [TS]

  that I i like that i have a Cyberman you [TS]

  know there are things about the Cybermen [TS]

  in this episode that i liked i don't [TS]

  think that I would actually say they [TS]

  were scary i felt like they were worried [TS]

  they were no they're never scary i like [TS]

  them better than the old kind of cranky [TS]

  marchi Cyberman here's the problem we [TS]

  have several right because everyone's [TS]

  like oh my god [TS]

  Cybermen we destroy the entire galaxies [TS]

  because of the Cybermen we can't beat [TS]

  the Cybermen if you jog away from the [TS]

  Cybermen can catch up to you unless he's [TS]

  that one social advances the beginning [TS]

  that was really cool because he was fast [TS]

  and I thought oh my god the Cyberman now [TS]

  are actually a threat but then no other [TS]

  Cyberman does that example [TS]

  they're metal zombies they're very ugly [TS]

  pay our time it's just the one really [TS]

  fast one how come the why don't [TS]

  understand whenever my wife was like [TS]

  well maybe the other ones didn't upgrade [TS]

  to that yeah why wouldn't they when they [TS]

  saw that it worked all the other ones [TS]

  could upgrade instead of having to like [TS]

  take off their head to lure someone just [TS]

  go really fast and kill everyone sorry [TS]

  cyborg shouldn't they not be able to [TS]

  attach their heads because they are [TS]

  presumably is like a skull and [TS]

  instructors Wi-Fi it so it's in the [TS]

  Wi-Fi Bluetooth actually its close [TS]

  proximity to get ahead can't be too far [TS]

  away other thing that's great about this [TS]

  is uh I thought that Smith did a great [TS]

  job in this in the scenes where he gets [TS]

  attached with anything again how do you [TS]

  make the Cybermen interesting is you [TS]

  have this whole other thing that's not a [TS]

  Cyberman but it's the syfy programmer [TS]

  that's attached to his face and you got [TS]

  one side of his face and you get all [TS]

  those shots where we're willing he's [TS]

  talking to himself or or we actually see [TS]

  him sort of the inside his mind talking [TS]

  and I liked all of that I thought that [TS]

  was I thought that was actually really [TS]

  good stuff and actually showed to that [TS]

  matt smith is actually a pretty good [TS]

  actor and that he isn't just the doctor [TS]

  in real life and that's the only kind of [TS]

  party can play he he does some really [TS]

  nice things as the cyber planner and as [TS]

  about the end as the cyber planner mr. [TS]

  clever posing as the doctor but not [TS]

  actually the doctor I I thought that was [TS]

  all really good stuff but I could have [TS]

  done more with his a like when Clara [TS]

  trying to tell whether it's him or not [TS]

  but I'm desperate for some kind of real [TS]

  interaction between the two of them so [TS]

  they got like one or two little [TS]

  exchanges but not much but I and I also [TS]

  wish there was a slightly more clever [TS]

  resolution to the chest thing but you [TS]

  know what it was fine but I I overall I [TS]

  liked that the all the things they tried [TS]

  to do in the episode you know the [TS]

  premise that you dispense with pretty [TS]

  quickly once he became the two people [TS]

  think I like that idea [TS]

  I like the chess game and sort of the [TS]

  internal battle vs the external one that [TS]

  I guess I didn't like the Cyberman but [TS]

  whatever they march around they get [TS]

  zapped blah blah blah i like the [TS]

  randomness of being in the in the castle [TS]

  at the amusement park although i've had [TS]

  a pointed out to me by a few people that [TS]

  it's introduced as being kind of like a [TS]

  wacky castle and there's nothing wacky [TS]

  in it it's just a castle they got to go [TS]

  work with what they have in England it [TS]

  has the double-blind they call the wacky [TS]

  castles you go into it it's not went out [TS]

  and that's why it's wack not wacky this [TS]

  is the one episode [TS]

  that I did wish got expanded into a [TS]

  two-parter if you i'm a big game and [TS]

  fanboy but i thought there were problems [TS]

  in the script here that needed to their [TS]

  stuff that just happened too fast to the [TS]

  Sun walking if you go to game its blog [TS]

  and all this other stuff up [TS]

  he was actually fairly Frank talking [TS]

  about scenes that got cut up all over [TS]

  the place there was actually an [TS]

  explanation of why the kids were put to [TS]

  bed in the room in harm's way instead of [TS]

  inside the TARDIS and things like that [TS]

  you know I i thought that this episode [TS]

  could have been expanded into a [TS]

  two-parter and I'm held up pretty well [TS]

  well I would have been happy to see more [TS]

  work Davison and you're right the that's [TS]

  a bad nannying right as it as it is on [TS]

  screen you'll be fine it's just let's go [TS]

  to bed here in this scary alien planet [TS]

  the TARDIS isn't big enough for them [TS]

  yeah well there's a whole song is on [TS]

  this number how they can't go back there [TS]

  but well if they really think they're [TS]

  afraid of bunk beds [TS]

  well you know do you see what happens [TS]

  when you let people wander around the [TS]

  TARDIS they could turn into a time [TS]

  zombie that's no good [TS]

  true mmm the doctor could just shanghai [TS]

  somebody yeah i really like the end to [TS]

  where I porridge the emperor emperor [TS]

  great emperor portage proposes to Clara [TS]

  I thought that was funny and it's like [TS]

  you could be the queen of the universe [TS]

  in there but if it but she tells the [TS]

  doctor to shut up right that's like this [TS]

  but that's just what uh was an aria said [TS]

  what if I never want to be queen of you [TS]

  stop crossing over the things and it's [TS]

  all one big one big show when the TARDIS [TS]

  lands in Westeros then we'll wait no [TS]

  that's very confusing i guarantee you [TS]

  that fan fiction has been written i'm [TS]

  sure you would watch that episode to [TS]

  admit my other problem with this which I [TS]

  thought was fine overall I mean find [TS]

  someone I think it's stupid but that's [TS]

  not really his fault is that so [TS]

  portage have the ability to activate [TS]

  this bomb right and then you can [TS]

  everyone immediately teleport away so [TS]

  why didn't he do that sooner and I was [TS]

  like oh I don't want to blow up another [TS]

  one and he didn't want below is blow his [TS]

  cover [TS]

  he was trying to get away from the [TS]

  wildlife it it doesn't make any sense [TS]

  they are being threatened by the most [TS]

  thousands have been scary [TS]

  threats that humanity and look at it was [TS]

  just like Ron of them in the beginning [TS]

  and this is my only walking side and he [TS]

  doesn't think maybe I should just you [TS]

  know use my intercontinental missile [TS]

  here and get picked up by my flagship [TS]

  that can only teleport me across the [TS]

  universe away from this thing does it [TS]

  eventually he will just wait till the [TS]

  last possible minute that's all [TS]

  of course understand who's gonna ride a [TS]

  chess game yeah it wouldn't be an [TS]

  episode otherwise alright let's move on [TS]

  to the last episode of the season which [TS]

  aired very recently the name of the [TS]

  doctor [TS]

  I where there is the most bizarre [TS]

  conference call in history that's the [TS]

  sleep conference call across time and [TS]

  then the there are these scary guys [TS]

  called the whisper men who kidnapped [TS]

  everybody and take them to trenzalore [TS]

  where the doctor is supposed to never go [TS]

  because that's where he is buried that [TS]

  is his tomb which actually is a call [TS]

  back to an earlier episode work in hide [TS]

  where Claire asks if her grave is out [TS]

  there somewhere when they reach the end [TS]

  of the earth and he says yes all of our [TS]

  grades are out there somewhere and and [TS]

  here it is and we we get to see river [TS]

  song we discovered the mystery of of [TS]

  Clara and how she came to be the [TS]

  impossible girl we find the final plan [TS]

  I guess of the great intelligence which [TS]

  is to get that doctor once and for all [TS]

  yeah haha him is his name is our cat [TS]

  like infinitely and all in for all yeah [TS]

  and and also this serves as the selling [TS]

  this John earlier today this also serves [TS]

  as in some ways the this is the official [TS]

  50th anniversary fanservice episode [TS]

  where it's like we're going to show you [TS]

  all the classic Doctor Who actors or [TS]

  costumes or whatever in this episode [TS]

  make presumably so that they don't have [TS]

  to do that in the actual 50th [TS]

  anniversary episode that's coming in [TS]

  november i would i would not presume [TS]

  that at all [TS]

  well as make sure the same three Clips [TS]

  like 17 times the total presumably they [TS]

  have a deeper library like aren't just [TS]

  for this show just keeps on the same [TS]

  three clips but for with 50 and not on [TS]

  the BBC's budget the rest of the library [TS]

  has been lost yeah it's been deleted [TS]

  probably how YouTube some our tape they [TS]

  taped it over so a Benny Hill yes of [TS]

  this is the hill this episode is we [TS]

  learned that Clara special because she [TS]

  throws herself [TS]

  into the doctors timestream basically [TS]

  because the great intelligence has used [TS]

  it to go back in time and sort of wrong [TS]

  everyone's rights and and do bad things [TS]

  to everything that the doctor is done [TS]

  that was good and so she's there she [TS]

  jumps in to counteract him i'm [TS]

  interested what you guys thought of this [TS]

  i might might take on it is that it was [TS]

  again this is I know this may sound like [TS]

  a broken record here but kind of a mass [TS]

  kind of a lot going on i thought there [TS]

  were some really interesting parts uh [TS]

  but it felt in some ways like Steven [TS]

  Moffat sort of knew what he wanted to do [TS]

  and then constructed an episode around [TS]

  where he wanted to go which is not the [TS]

  same thing as telling I think as telling [TS]

  a good story it's more like just uh you [TS]

  know workmanlike reaching a destination [TS]

  in it you know throwing in the things to [TS]

  to get there so he's he's dazed ticking [TS]

  the boxes [TS]

  yeah like that's it's uneven as it [TS]

  doesn't feel natural to do what it feels [TS]

  like kind of a mess that just inevitably [TS]

  leads to thinking needed to get only he [TS]

  had done even that over the course of [TS]

  this entire season like I don't think [TS]

  even take the boxes because if this is [TS]

  where he was trying to go like that are [TS]

  so this is acquires eventual architect [TS]

  where I have an explanation of how she's [TS]

  impossible girls going to lead to that [TS]

  last episode where you're going to [TS]

  understand why like is that it is like [TS]

  two points and nothing in between [TS]

  there's no real arc and so I by the time [TS]

  you get this last episode I'm perfectly [TS]

  fine with the explanation of how does [TS]

  she is impossible girl but you you [TS]

  didn't correctly spend your season to [TS]

  make me care about that you didn't earn [TS]

  it you didn't show your work and i'll go [TS]

  further I would actually say this would [TS]

  have been a great episode with a couple [TS]

  of things being different one is if this [TS]

  was a companion who we've seen for [TS]

  longer [TS]

  yeah so that the jeopardy of the [TS]

  sacrifice would have been greater and [TS]

  ideally this would be their sacrifice [TS]

  they wouldn't come back we could see [TS]

  them again but it was always the echoes [TS]

  of the original that would be really sad [TS]

  but also not quite as brutal as a real [TS]

  death but certainly even if they didn't [TS]

  die permanently if it was somebody [TS]

  really been invested in somebody like [TS]

  like like rose or like what happens to [TS]

  to Donna was only here for one season 2 [TS]

  and that like bring one of the players [TS]

  and a half but it was thirteen episodes [TS]

  right layer 7 8 episode everything a [TS]

  half really makes it hard to get into I [TS]

  mean you know even with Amy you know we [TS]

  had what to do next [TS]

  yeah yeah that's a long to write and I [TS]

  mean that would have heard a lot more if [TS]

  that had been named i would much rather [TS]

  have this be a me write that then this [TS]

  and then the other thing I would say is [TS]

  the great intelligence of the other [TS]

  problem here which is that's a villain [TS]

  that we've only had for half a season [TS]

  and again if this was and this is sort [TS]

  of what the episode was trying to go for [TS]

  you get the sense that the great [TS]

  intelligence is like been wading through [TS]

  all time and space to get to this point [TS]

  because he fancies himself the doctor's [TS]

  greatest enemy and if this dog is like [TS]

  who [TS]

  yeah if this had been an enemy you're [TS]

  you're in one episode of snowmen if this [TS]

  has been the master or or somebody else [TS]

  who is sort of like this long history [TS]

  and we've seen them over years even if [TS]

  it was just a couple years but is [TS]

  preferably a long time and this is sort [TS]

  of like their final gambit which is I'm [TS]

  going to kill myself but I get to erase [TS]

  everything good you've ever done that [TS]

  would have also had a huge impact but [TS]

  neither of these stories has the same [TS]

  impact because we've only really been [TS]

  following them for eight episodes and [TS]

  only spot even then even if you would [TS]

  have the great intelligence going like [TS]

  that to screw everything up and then not [TS]

  resolved it right now like but the [TS]

  problem is the entire episode to me I i [TS]

  turn to the person i was watching with [TS]

  afterwards and said this is just me or [TS]

  was that entire episode lead-up to like [TS]

  the last 30 seconds like it felt to me [TS]

  very much like all right we're done with [TS]

  this thing we're moving on to some other [TS]

  big mystery [TS]

  like if you had set up the idea like [TS]

  okay great intelligence is now gone back [TS]

  and screwed with everything the doctors [TS]

  ever done what spend a season exploring [TS]

  like what the impact of that might be [TS]

  but doesn't the impact of this is 30 [TS]

  seconds long because in Claire's like [TS]

  all right I'll fix it like all right [TS]

  well that was pointless the stars go out [TS]

  she goes back in they come back on yet [TS]

  or they could they didn't even show the [TS]

  great intelligence doing anything into [TS]

  the other time streams right he was just [TS]

  in there we assume the doctors [TS]

  convulsing on the floor so we soon bad [TS]

  things are happening they don't show and [TS]

  they don't even really show they show [TS]

  Clara talking to the other doctors but [TS]

  she's not really doing [TS]

  anything to report anything seemingly [TS]

  she's just like oh hey look there's the [TS]

  doctor fire driving passing that stupid [TS]

  car he had to do and that's enough and [TS]

  it's just hard and I think that so the [TS]

  reason I don't like Clara is that I [TS]

  really so Donna was my favorite [TS]

  companion and I feel like the difference [TS]

  between Donna and Clara is that Donna [TS]

  was a character Claire's a plot device [TS]

  that was meant to lead up to this [TS]

  episode and i thought at the end of this [TS]

  episode I was hoping that Clara would be [TS]

  dead because that would make it at least [TS]

  a little more interesting and that she [TS]

  wouldn't come back doesn't like her but [TS]

  the I thought it would make more sense [TS]

  but then I got you now she's fine and [TS]

  will you know do stuff [TS]

  alright i'm just kind of keeping the [TS]

  whole it didn't it didn't there was no [TS]

  peril there right because it was all [TS]

  lickety-split done you can take heart of [TS]

  the real clarity is actually dead and [TS]

  only hurt goes no no because the doctor [TS]

  goes and pulls her back out [TS]

  sorry yeah I thought he goes back in he [TS]

  get the grabs your hand you got the guy [TS]

  you know you got John Hart there was on [TS]

  her and everything right and they go off [TS]

  camera but is she gonna be just back [TS]

  full-fledged exactly as she was no [TS]

  consequences [TS]

  I soon so not keeping up with the news [TS]

  so she's this she's gonna be back in the [TS]

  actresses in the Christmas been the [TS]

  November 23rd special and I don't think [TS]

  that and I think it's been announced [TS]

  that she's going to be in serious am [TS]

  sorry that she keeps on keepin on keepin [TS]

  on via real quick I just to put on my [TS]

  doctor who nerd hat again the the great [TS]

  intelligence hasn't bit has been around [TS]

  for a bit longer than half a CC well he [TS]

  has but we haven't seen him since before [TS]

  I was born so I think that even though [TS]

  he's right he did have his robotic Yeti [TS]

  in the underground during Patrick [TS]

  Troughton Zarah it's not as if this is [TS]

  somebody who it we felt like finally at [TS]

  last I'm going to sacrifice a great he's [TS]

  it's been off it was revived eight [TS]

  episodes for those who only watch the [TS]

  reboot then there that has no meaning [TS]

  other than what we wikipedia right yeah [TS]

  right and I actually going to measure [TS]

  going going somewhere with that because [TS]

  this this episode was pretty much [TS]

  universally adored by [TS]

  the classic who fans and the people who [TS]

  hang out on the Doctor Who shirts and [TS]

  things like that you it works as an [TS]

  homage to old doctor who with lots of [TS]

  references and I I yeah yeah and and [TS]

  that and that's what that's what it has [TS]

  going for it [TS]

  it's a mess though and as much as like [TS]

  as much as I want to like it because I [TS]

  you know I i have the fan [TS]

  gene I like having it as a friend of [TS]

  mine says another podcast I'm happy to [TS]

  have my fan gene service to but but but [TS]

  Steven Moffat is totally into a throwing [TS]

  out lots and lots of ideas and [TS]

  explaining the ideas that he feels he [TS]

  needs to and just and dismissing [TS]

  dispensing with explanations for the [TS]

  ideas he doesn't have to eat hehe [TS]

  explanations are not necessary as long [TS]

  as they get him where he wants to go and [TS]

  there's so much of that happening in [TS]

  this episode that it's it it's just [TS]

  plain hard to follow [TS]

  yeah I didn't even understand [TS]

  necessarily the resolution of the doctor [TS]

  going inside his own time line I really [TS]

  thought that was going to cause a little [TS]

  bit more of a paradox than hey i'm in [TS]

  some creepy cave place I mean like that [TS]

  should be a real problem right like [TS]

  going into tonight you don't mind me how [TS]

  I don't even understand it doesn't even [TS]

  make any sense again and this is kind of [TS]

  going back to John's point about at [TS]

  least be consistent in your own you know [TS]

  ridiculous stuff like to me that didn't [TS]

  really make any sense i mean i can [TS]

  easily adjust that they had just [TS]

  explained before he went and had this [TS]

  whole the expedition we think that women [TS]

  characters talk with your device [TS]

  yeah I did they all talk to each other [TS]

  to explain to the audience what the [TS]

  what's at stake with this thing and then [TS]

  immediately support everything that they [TS]

  said yeah I was really sad to see I feel [TS]

  like they squandered the whisper men [TS]

  which was yet another great production [TS]

  value on those villains who again yeah [TS]

  crappy and they were creepy but they [TS]

  were there for five minutes and like [TS]

  nobody cares it's like it had funny hats [TS]

  the topic i like their little luck would [TS]

  be Rhymes I hated the rhymes the other [TS]

  rhymes Steven Moffat got a thing for [TS]

  nursery rhymes and and all that night [TS]

  yeah I didn't there they reminded me of [TS]

  a cross between this the silence and the [TS]

  gentleman [TS]

  the paw wash my face yeah yeah and we [TS]

  just those both of those things I [TS]

  thought were very scary and they [TS]

  combined into something also scary i [TS]

  like the silence a lot better than these [TS]

  guys [TS]

  well I it could have been the silence it [TS]

  would have mattered right like they were [TS]

  they were not point there's no point [TS]

  yeah these guys could have been [TS]

  something but they're just the lackeys [TS]

  of the great intelligence that sort of [TS]

  all days while they are the not-so-great [TS]

  intelligences I wanted to say i am I [TS]

  think chip is spot-on that that and [TS]

  expect what I said earlier to that its [TS]

  mother wants to do what he wants to do [TS]

  and if the if the boxes are all [TS]

  connected then he kind of doesn't care [TS]

  and i think yeah you can explain it all [TS]

  away and I i am tired of people poking [TS]

  holes in fantasy stories be saying well [TS]

  what about this because you could [TS]

  explain away a lot of things but it does [TS]

  feel like you you want to kind of have a [TS]

  natural progression and it was really [TS]

  kind of jerky like you know okay I guess [TS]

  this is happening now but i don't really [TS]

  understand why there's a lot of cool [TS]

  stuff in here again I'm not saying you [TS]

  know I'm not saying that there wasn't [TS]

  I'm saying that it didn't connect like [TS]

  there's a lot of cool stuff the TARDIS [TS]

  being big and being his tomb and being [TS]

  overgrown that was my favorite my [TS]

  favorite part of the whole episode was [TS]

  like the fields of trenzalore I think he [TS]

  was just he's this season maybe yeah [TS]

  yeah last episode of season right yeah I [TS]

  I that was to use for an appropriate [TS]

  amount of time I thought it was cool [TS]

  seeing the big targets being the grave [TS]

  and that the idea that translator was [TS]

  great all that gives a big thumbs up it [TS]

  was like and I'm are also i also like [TS]

  the idea of the impossible girl the [TS]

  explanation of how she becomes what she [TS]

  is [TS]

  it's just that once again this episode [TS]

  lots of other stuff in it and the river [TS]

  song stuff as much as I liked it because [TS]

  I like those [TS]

  yeah who doesn't love every song right [TS]

  it was kind of like hey remember we had [TS]

  a good episode of this lady remember [TS]

  that while they and even on do the [TS]

  things that are good like I mean I I [TS]

  thought again effectively sad was the [TS]

  the murder of jenny and then they [TS]

  completely in right [TS]

  wipe that out that was great that was [TS]

  such a great scene where she's like [TS]

  converter had been murdered I'm sorry [TS]

  about what I mean like that gave me [TS]

  chills but they're killing me and I'm [TS]

  dead [TS]

  yeah that's why you still kicking me [TS]

  like that well I I'm saying I really [TS]

  right yeah but the problem is that the [TS]

  punchy at right and then because [TS]

  everybody likes her to market everybody [TS]

  and so that bum me out [TS]

  I mean not that I didn't like her but [TS]

  River Song this is the first time we've [TS]

  seen her after she was saved to the [TS]

  library and her first appearance after [TS]

  she died in one stage of the library and [TS]

  I thought this was the best thing in [TS]

  this episode because it was handled [TS]

  properly [TS]

  it wasn't cute it was in fact you could [TS]

  argue the most genuine relationship [TS]

  between river and the doctor sense [TS]

  silence in the library where he didn't [TS]

  know who she was the kiss that they [TS]

  share is the maybe the only time that it [TS]

  felt non-ironic in any way that it [TS]

  actually had meaning and it and even [TS]

  though we may see her again i'm pretty [TS]

  sure this is the end of her existence [TS]

  he's in in her timeline and I thought it [TS]

  was a fitting goodbye that she's from [TS]

  the library she still got a little bit [TS]

  more information to give to the doctor [TS]

  and then they say goodbye and she says [TS]

  say it like we're going to see each [TS]

  other again instead of saying goodbye i [TS]

  thought that was great [TS]

  I you know it there's lots of other [TS]

  problems with this episode but I felt [TS]

  like that was handled perfectly [TS]

  there's one other huge thing about this [TS]

  episode that I want to mention and it in [TS]

  it saves the episode for me and it's it [TS]

  actually subverts the idea of who the [TS]

  doctor is and right reintroduces some [TS]

  mystery to the doctor and that's [TS]

  actually kind of huge this the sort of [TS]

  contradictory a caption at the end you [TS]

  know we've just been told that John [TS]

  Hurt's not the doctor and introducing [TS]

  John Hurt askah fate BBC options and [TS]

  everything it was a little weird to have [TS]

  that on screen that feel weird anyone [TS]

  like me turn around like it's john hurt [TS]

  you know when trying to explain to [TS]

  people because the doctor looks [TS]

  different [TS]

  you can show a guy and they're like [TS]

  who's that guy I mean as it is I thought [TS]

  it was fairly clear what they're saying [TS]

  here which is essentially this is this [TS]

  is a past doctor who did something so [TS]

  bad that he can't even be known as the [TS]

  doctor and how audacious is that to do [TS]

  that but but people people don't get it [TS]

  so the BBC and the producer said we'll [TS]

  just put it on the screen and I was [TS]

  with a big don't hear arrow but ship [TS]

  you're right ship you're absolutely [TS]

  right [TS]

  what a wild I mean I love that it's [TS]

  really more about what happens in the [TS]

  next episode presumably but i do love [TS]

  that with that stroke Moffat has has [TS]

  called into question all sorts of [TS]

  assumptions we make about the character [TS]

  of the doctor this is the real [TS]

  unbelievable thing that we're learning [TS]

  that the name of the doctor which would [TS]

  be boring because it would be something [TS]

  boring or we're Johnny it's the fact [TS]

  that we may not even know all the [TS]

  doctors because we because here's John [TS]

  hurt and he's the doctor and he's been [TS]

  disowned by matt smith is like I don't [TS]

  even he didn't even you live up to the [TS]

  name which is like wow that's why you [TS]

  can't buy five like the basics when [TS]

  you're doing line numbers you want to [TS]

  leave room between the doctor never know [TS]

  what answer [TS]

  also I i presume the very fact that they [TS]

  mentioned the valley hard [TS]

  enduring in conversation was to dispel [TS]

  anybody from thinking that hurdle is the [TS]

  value word [TS]

  yeah but my only other theory was that [TS]

  it seems like in general the doctors get [TS]

  younger and younger right like William [TS]

  Hartnell was really old and they've [TS]

  they've tended to get young ended sure [TS]

  as we go along [TS]

  I mean for the most part right i mean [TS]

  like davison was was younger and then [TS]

  they went older old people are ugly [TS]

  that's why they keep coming and so I was [TS]

  wondering if this is the is this is the [TS]

  very first incarnation of the doctor [TS]

  pre-wet William Hartnell was my my other [TS]

  theory that's the other theory but i [TS]

  think that this is the one who did the [TS]

  time war and killed all everybody in the [TS]

  time were and that I you know what [TS]

  that's pretty cool although it screws up [TS]

  everybody's number in god damn it will [TS]

  know because he's not the doctor right I [TS]

  know except he says but that is my great [TS]

  honor it is the doctors dr. ish look [TS]

  there's nothing doctor with I'm sure [TS]

  there's nothing that makes even off and [TS]

  happier than what is happening right now [TS]

  which is all these people saying but [TS]

  then the numbers are wrong and all right [TS]

  just like about the insane make them [TS]

  just like your heads explode [TS]

  it's gonna be the doctor with an [TS]

  asterisk well remember we talked about [TS]

  like a two seasons ago we talked about [TS]

  be like well what is it like 13 [TS]

  regeneration is like all they've already [TS]

  extended to 14 or whatever like the end [TS]

  of the regeneration if they're gonna run [TS]

  this series well here's the easy out for [TS]

  you is like a hot really is X memory [TS]

  generations with the only regeneration [TS]

  is the counter when he's officially [TS]

  ending as the doctor or something I [TS]

  don't know but I that was fun because it [TS]

  was a head-scratcher although even then [TS]

  it was so kind of oddly done [TS]

  his name in the titles my kids thought [TS]

  that his name was john hurt like that [TS]

  was he doesn't know that he's an actor [TS]

  they thought to myself John is hurting [TS]

  that is John hurting the doctor what hey [TS]

  what hey that's done dr. John Smith but [TS]

  this guy is john hurt so he hurts people [TS]

  no that's not it its name of the actor [TS]

  he's actually the doctor oh is it Jason [TS]

  yeah or is he well i like that you know [TS]

  what I like that your idea about being [TS]

  the time war because that is something [TS]

  we've heard about since the beginning of [TS]

  the axon right and that's all knew from [TS]

  the reboot air right it doesn't think [TS]

  that that's the the biggest gap in [TS]

  Doctor Who history right is from the orc [TS]

  series of the new series and there's the [TS]

  middle where there was paul mcgann and [TS]

  then we'll and then Christopher [TS]

  Eccleston and what happened in between [TS]

  so it slides right on in there i think [TS]

  that could be i'm looking forward to the [TS]

  50th anniversary episode because i [TS]

  actually do feel like in some ways this [TS]

  last episode of the season was was was [TS]

  set up and clearing away some of the [TS]

  obligatory classic doctor who references [TS]

  to then tell a different story for the [TS]

  50th we'll see [TS]

  yeah i'm i'm i'm intrigued sufficiently [TS]

  trained and maybe maybe John Hurt can be [TS]

  the new companion and then haha [TS]

  Scott will feel better let's go maybe [TS]

  he's Clara is the impossible doctor that [TS]

  would be impossible [TS]

  so uh I guess to sum up that we all seem [TS]

  fairly uh fairly disappointed by this [TS]

  this half-season does that sound about [TS]

  right I was I was I was beside myself [TS]

  early on because I thought after cold [TS]

  warrior and I thought oh jeez they've [TS]

  completely lost it and then I they're [TS]

  managed to be some redemptive episodes [TS]

  that came on after including hide which [TS]

  I really glommed onto was like hey it's [TS]

  a good episode but in general I was you [TS]

  know it was kind of a letdown and and if [TS]

  you if you compare it to the the first [TS]

  half of the season it's sort of a a big [TS]

  letdown because i don't think i think [TS]

  that the batting average way lower this [TS]

  this season as a whole then it was the [TS]

  previous two years of the of them off at [TS]

  era for sure I don't think I thought [TS]

  they were not lots of super terrible [TS]

  like claw your eyeballs out episode but [TS]

  they're also very few really amazing [TS]

  ones [TS]

  fair enough below average and it was [TS]

  just kind of forgettable I didn't find [TS]

  myself getting angry at it like you know [TS]

  but it was just kinda like yeah yeah you [TS]

  know I thought it was I thought it was [TS]

  consistently I thought it was [TS]

  consistently enjoyable but never [TS]

  spectacular i wanted to look forward to [TS]

  all the episodes more I mean I still [TS]

  look forward to them but then i get to [TS]

  the end and i feel kind of like yeah I [TS]

  wish that had been done better [TS]

  like I mean I don't remember like [TS]

  looking back now I try to remember when [TS]

  I thought that was that that high [TS]

  watermark and it may as much as I love [TS]

  Matt Smith it may have been the you know [TS]

  the tenant area especially towards the [TS]

  end we had tenants and with with [TS]

  catherine tate maybe I'll back out what [TS]

  they used to have like there was always [TS]

  one or two really great ones and the [TS]

  thing is like it you know Donna like [TS]

  right now if you clarify before she was [TS]

  only one season right yeah and like I [TS]

  think I think back and then it stretches [TS]

  out so far in my mind that it shows the [TS]

  evening just one season in one companion [TS]

  if you have a good story we forgive the [TS]

  crappy episode you only remember the [TS]

  good ones and you know like it it stands [TS]

  out more min I think even like the Amy [TS]

  Pond series which towards the end I was [TS]

  you know getting grumpy about even that [TS]

  watching this season I'm thinking back [TS]

  to I'm finding my mind wandering back [TS]

  like member many palms old and they let [TS]

  her die [TS]

  yeah that was you know that was the best [TS]

  episode from season yeah yeah I just get [TS]

  this this season made me just think back [TS]

  to other episodes that i like better and [TS]

  i totally acknowledge that I think that [TS]

  there were not any terrible singers in [TS]

  this one but it's just it didn't it [TS]

  didn't rise up and you know it gets back [TS]

  to what Scott was saying about Clara [TS]

  that just her being a plot device rather [TS]

  than a character was disappointing [TS]

  because I really did like the actress [TS]

  I'm actually hopeful that now that she [TS]

  said she is coming back and she no [TS]

  longer has the burden of being the [TS]

  impossible girl she may actually be a [TS]

  better character as it strange that [TS]

  sound what so what's her story now like [TS]

  what is her our quickest what is her [TS]

  voter what I i think it would be awfully [TS]

  refreshing if her story was that she was [TS]

  the doctors companion and like to travel [TS]

  with him and wasn't part of some [TS]

  complicated time-travel based story are [TS]

  then right then it's imagine the [TS]

  episodes for them to be like actual good [TS]

  episodes with interesting sci-fi prime [TS]

  yes or whatever that's i love that water [TS]

  well I mean her hook can be she was the [TS]

  impossible girl she saved him [TS]

  and now they can and now they've got a [TS]

  bond because of that I i love matt smith [TS]

  and jenna-louise Coleman as actors and I [TS]

  i think they can do interesting stuff [TS]

  with her going on in the future that the [TS]

  trick is going to be to give her a [TS]

  character art because muffin made this [TS]

  mistake with Amy Pond he made her the [TS]

  mystery to be solved and then when that [TS]

  mystery was over and done with [TS]

  then they had to figure out what to do [TS]

  with her and Rory and that was and and i [TS]

  would like to see him not make that same [TS]

  mistake right I agree all right we have [TS]

  talked to talk to talk it out [TS]

  we've solved all the problems doctor who [TS]

  we will roll onto the 50th anniversary [TS]

  where there will be a special on the [TS]

  actual day it's a saturday no less so [TS]

  it's perfect i utterly failed to model [TS]

  brevity tonight didn't that's okay [TS]

  yeah we ran a little long we we we've [TS]

  ruined you we've we brought you over to [TS]

  our side that's the 200 minute Time Lord [TS]

  it does so the 50th anniversary in [TS]

  November on a Saturday there's also as [TS]

  chip mentioned earlier the docudrama [TS]

  written by Mark Gatiss about the [TS]

  creation of the show which I i was [TS]

  actually I actually met chip at the [TS]

  gallery one convention in LA last year [TS]

  when one of the year the original [TS]

  director of the first episode of doctor [TS]

  who spoke it's a great story of how this [TS]

  show got on the air but against all odds [TS]

  with a with a team of misfits [TS]

  essentially who are the rejects of the [TS]

  BBC who did all the old guard the BBC [TS]

  didn't want them to didn't want to work [TS]

  on this ridiculous show and so they kind [TS]

  of cast off all these people and they [TS]

  made this thing that has endured for 50 [TS]

  years so I'm looking forward to the the [TS]

  docudrama that is is also coming in [TS]

  november and then there will be a [TS]

  Christmas special after that and there [TS]

  will be a new series next year it's been [TS]

  announced [TS]

  I'm i'm going to assume that's going to [TS]

  be it for Steven Moffat and matt smith [TS]

  after that season but we'll see [TS]

  so there's a lot more to come and I hope [TS]

  springs eternal [TS]

  I'm looking forward to it even though [TS]

  this year is not been the greatest so [TS]

  anyway and and Scott doesn't doesn't [TS]

  like Clara shame shames I I just met you [TS]

  and you're dead to me [TS]

  haha don't worry i I've broken myself [TS]

  into fragments and I'll just you just [TS]

  keep meeting [TS]

  nah its diabolical alright i would like [TS]

  to thank my guests for spending all this [TS]

  time talking Doctor Who Scott McNulty [TS]

  you will always be known as the man who [TS]

  didn't like Clara goodnight i was [TS]

  shocked when dr. whose name turned out [TS]

  to be [TS]

  yes it was it was shocking i did not [TS]

  expand ooh thank you you've ruined [TS]

  everything [TS]

  I Dan Morgan thank you i was also really [TS]

  surprised when [TS]

  you hired I don't know what you're [TS]

  talking about John series with John [TS]

  siracusa thank you for being here you [TS]

  know Jason if the TARDIS is infinite [TS]

  isn't any place in at the center [TS]

  yeah I don't think the TARDIS is [TS]

  infinite I think that's wrong and I [TS]

  heard on a podcast wanna yeah I don't [TS]

  believe it and chip thanks for being [TS]

  here [TS]

  I really appreciate you coming on and [TS]

  sharing your sharing your perspective [TS]

  and I enjoy your podcast so much that I [TS]

  just wanted to have you visit us so [TS]

  thank you very much i appreciate Jason [TS]

  thanks a lot [TS]

  chip you are i mentioned your podcast [TS]

  it's the 2-minute Time Lord tell people [TS]

  where you can find it it's at TW 0 [TS]

  minute Time Lord dot-com and i'm on [TS]

  twitter and facebook at numeral two [TS]

  minute Time Lord numeral two minute I [TS]

  listen to the podcast I could I could [TS]

  have said that I did you probably could [TS]

  have done it word-for-word they're not [TS]

  all quite two minutes long but they're [TS]

  short and I like that they're short and [TS]

  little essay is about Doctor Who it's [TS]

  very nice do you regret using both the [TS]

  numeral two and then spelling it out of [TS]

  the URL so now you are forever having to [TS]

  distinguish which one is spelled out in [TS]

  which one uses the numeral and [TS]

  constantly being mocked for it by my [TS]

  fellow doctor who podcast right in there [TS]

  blue snowballs yes numeral two minute [TS]

  timely and we'll get you back for that [TS]

  Babylon 5 episode which will eventually [TS]

  happen [TS]

  woohoo yeah but until then this is jason [TS]

  stuff for the uncomfortable [TS]

  we'll see you later [TS]

  wait a second did we do a show on the [TS]

  first half of the season already [TS]

  we did we did was I on that show you [TS]

  were I think you were well alright a [TS]

  fragment of you take your word for it [TS]

  have I died before what do you say our [TS]

  good boy stepped into a vortex and erase [TS]

  your participant that's true well yeah [TS]

  we went in without now makes the hot [TS]

  cast can give you one better about that [TS]

  you are now played by a bit of that [TS]

  Cumberbatch no well that's something [TS]

  upgrade yeah [TS]