Under the Radar

Under the Radar 60: Transferable Skills


00:00:00   welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:02   independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04   Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:06   the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:08   minutes so let's get started so today

00:00:11   what we wanted to talk about I'm not

00:00:14   really sure what the right word term for

00:00:15   it is the one that comes into my mind

00:00:16   when I was thinking about this topic is

00:00:18   transferable skills or generally it's

00:00:21   this feeling that I've been having

00:00:22   recently about and I look at the various

00:00:25   parts of making apps that aren't the

00:00:28   actual sitting in Xcode Londa like

00:00:31   writing code part there's a lot of

00:00:34   different skills and techniques and

00:00:36   abilities that go into the actual like

00:00:38   production of software and a lot of them

00:00:41   I was noticing that the place that I

00:00:43   learned that skill it was very distinct

00:00:46   from actual development so as an example

00:00:49   the recently when I launched workouts

00:00:51   plus plus I launched with a walkthrough

00:00:55   video well which is sort of this long

00:00:56   sort of like eight to ten minute you

00:01:00   know screen by screen walkthrough of the

00:01:02   app then I also have made a little like

00:01:04   shorter like 30-second commercial and

00:01:06   put these up on YouTube with the hope of

00:01:08   trying to just kind of it's this you

00:01:10   know if someone's on the fence about the

00:01:12   app especially because it's paid upfront

00:01:13   that maybe they'd watch the video get a

00:01:15   sense of the app and then decide you

00:01:17   know make an informed decision and I

00:01:19   realized that I was able to make these

00:01:21   videos with fairly low effort and time

00:01:26   mostly because in the past I've messed

00:01:30   around with making videos of other kinds

00:01:32   whether they're sort of like for

00:01:33   personal projects and that kind of thing

00:01:36   or even if there was a period of time

00:01:37   when I was doing like code tutorials on

00:01:40   YouTube I tried that there was a couple

00:01:42   few episodes of my old podcast

00:01:43   developing perspective where I did them

00:01:45   kind of like vlogs where I'd like sat

00:01:47   and looked into the camera and recorded

00:01:49   it that way and those project never went

00:01:52   anywhere like they're not part of my

00:01:53   business they're not big and significant

00:01:55   in that way but by sitting down and like

00:01:58   doing these things that are on the side

00:02:00   or sort of these orthogonal separate

00:02:03   projects but I keep finding time and

00:02:06   time again is that I am building these

00:02:08   skills that down the road I find huh

00:02:11   interesting this is actually so

00:02:13   thing that I need for my main job you

00:02:15   know so for making these videos or

00:02:16   making you have previews now like I'm

00:02:18   comfortable in a Final Cut Pro but not

00:02:23   you know which is useful to me now but I

00:02:25   did not just sit down and try and learn

00:02:26   it for the actual job I do and I find

00:02:28   that this sort of pattern of having a

00:02:31   rich set of side projects and little

00:02:34   hobbies and things to try from time to

00:02:36   time keeps coming back to inform my own

00:02:39   work like my primary job again and again

00:02:42   and so it seemed like something that was

00:02:43   worth discussing as a important skill

00:02:47   for kind of developing yourself and I

00:02:48   think especially it's applicable as an

00:02:50   independent developer where I have to do

00:02:53   so much of this myself like I'm the one

00:02:56   who is writing the code as well as the

00:02:58   person who is making the promotional

00:03:00   materials and making the marketing

00:03:02   videos and doing all these different

00:03:04   things that maybe if I was at a big a

00:03:06   big startup there would be a marketing

00:03:08   division that may have like a creative

00:03:11   audio-visual person who really knows

00:03:14   what they're doing and could probably

00:03:15   make a better product than I could but

00:03:17   like that's someone else's job whereas

00:03:18   for me like that's my job yeah and you

00:03:22   know it also as as indie developers like

00:03:24   we we need a lot of stuff to be done

00:03:26   ourselves because we often either don't

00:03:29   have the the contacts on hand to call to

00:03:33   do things like this for us and or we

00:03:36   can't afford to have other people do it

00:03:38   because like when you're an indie any

00:03:40   expense that you spend on other people's

00:03:42   labor is a lot of money usually like

00:03:44   relative to what you're bringing in like

00:03:46   hiring contract workers hiring services

00:03:48   to make you things like videos and and

00:03:50   designers this can be a substantial

00:03:52   expense for Indies and often it is just

00:03:55   completely not within the budget or at

00:03:58   least it would be it would be way too

00:04:00   big of a portion of the budget to make

00:04:02   it probably on a good idea so a lot of

00:04:04   times you you as an Indian have to do a

00:04:06   lot of this crazy stuff yourself you

00:04:07   have to be able to make you know whip up

00:04:09   a little like logo for things sometimes

00:04:11   you have to like like if the App Store

00:04:13   asks you for promotional artwork for

00:04:16   your app for possible featuring in the

00:04:17   store you have to you have to design

00:04:21   something that fits their requirements

00:04:23   which change over time and are always

00:04:25   slightly different

00:04:26   it's like you can't just have a designer

00:04:28   make something once and and be done

00:04:30   forever like you have to be able to whip

00:04:32   stuff together in that in that way for

00:04:34   like for something that that you might

00:04:36   have to get done by like tomorrow at

00:04:38   noon or you kind of need to do this

00:04:40   right now to have this opportunity or

00:04:42   something like that and you know things

00:04:44   like as you see the videos are another

00:04:46   excellent example of like you know if if

00:04:48   you have an app and Apple announces hey

00:04:51   now you can do app previews in the app

00:04:53   store if you already know the basics of

00:04:55   how to cut together a video that's that

00:04:57   looks halfway decent that puts you way

00:04:59   ahead of so many other people who will

00:05:02   never do that can't do that very well or

00:05:05   just would never even try because they

00:05:08   would think it's impossible and so to

00:05:11   have that kind of transferable skill

00:05:12   just from side projects it's incredibly

00:05:15   valuable I mean and and as you as you

00:05:18   get older I think it serves you well to

00:05:21   to add to that repertoire as much as you

00:05:24   possibly can when you have the chance so

00:05:26   to do crazy side projects it's to try

00:05:29   out some new tool or some new medium or

00:05:31   something else you know try out new

00:05:34   stuff have little side projects even if

00:05:36   they don't go anywhere themselves they

00:05:38   will build up those skills in you and

00:05:40   you will probably need them at some

00:05:42   point down the road yeah and I feel like

00:05:44   - there's this interesting thing with

00:05:46   these types of skills is that in some

00:05:49   ways like the older I get the more I

00:05:51   understand that like there is certainly

00:05:54   something to be said for being like

00:05:57   super super expert at something like

00:06:00   somebody who can do one thing

00:06:02   extraordinarily well sound like there's

00:06:05   a value of it to that both you know in

00:06:07   it professionally as a society like this

00:06:09   is important for some people to go down

00:06:10   that road but I know for myself what I

00:06:13   found is that it's like it's more jet

00:06:17   it's probably more applicable and

00:06:19   flexible to try to consciously develop a

00:06:23   broad range of skills to apply to you

00:06:27   know to apply to different areas of your

00:06:29   work and so to be able to do lots of

00:06:31   different things

00:06:32   I mean it's helpful both obviously in

00:06:33   terms of like if you're trying to get a

00:06:34   job you know if you're trying to market

00:06:37   yourself as something like it's great if

00:06:39   you can do this one thing and that's the

00:06:40   exactly what someone's looking for but

00:06:41   if you're looking for a job and like you

00:06:43   can do lots of things pretty well and be

00:06:45   a good quick learner of the other stuff

00:06:47   like that's probably more attractive to

00:06:49   you know to a person but it's also just

00:06:51   honestly I find that it's more fun for

00:06:53   me to have this kind of a perspective a

00:06:56   skillset and an ability to be able to

00:06:58   try so many different things and be able

00:07:02   to do like a lot of things basically

00:07:04   competently not like well like I can't

00:07:08   you know the things I can do in

00:07:09   Photoshop or in Final Cut are not fancy

00:07:12   they're not like I'm not a graphic

00:07:14   designer

00:07:15   I'm not a videographer or whatever but I

00:07:19   can do these things too enough of a

00:07:21   level that it's fun and it's interesting

00:07:23   and it's clean its competent like

00:07:24   there's not just glaring mistakes and

00:07:26   huge problems and it's kind of a nice

00:07:29   thing to be able to do that and honestly

00:07:31   I think if it's part of what it's

00:07:32   allowed me to stay interested and

00:07:35   excited and the kind of work that I do

00:07:37   you know like I've been making iOS apps

00:07:39   now for a very long time and in many

00:07:43   ways I'm kind of like bored with making

00:07:45   iOS apps but the the core mechanics of

00:07:48   making iOS apps is not the thing that is

00:07:50   as nearly as exciting as all the various

00:07:53   other things that go into being you know

00:07:56   being self-employed especially and like

00:07:58   it's fun to find these new these new

00:08:00   things that to try and pull into your

00:08:02   work to you know just to try something

00:08:04   new and keep it fresh and interesting

00:08:06   that if you don't I feel like I just get

00:08:09   bored and then I don't know what I do I

00:08:11   don't know what else I'd do like this is

00:08:12   certainly the skill that I have the most

00:08:14   and would make sense for me to continue

00:08:15   to pursue but it's definitely something

00:08:18   that I'm glad that I can add this

00:08:20   diversity and sort of vibrancy into my

00:08:23   work by looking for those side projects

00:08:25   by looking for the hobbies and then in

00:08:27   my own work looking for huh what can I

00:08:29   learn take from this experience and put

00:08:32   into you know my into my own work it

00:08:35   also just it gives your brain different

00:08:37   outlets so for different different types

00:08:40   of work and satisfaction and challenge

00:08:43   and creativity you know all these

00:08:46   different types of work that we do serve

00:08:48   those needs and provide different levels

00:08:50   of fulfillment all differently and so

00:08:52   like like for me I

00:08:53   I make apps and that satisfies like my

00:08:56   programmer brain I also do podcasts and

00:08:58   I added them fairly creatively and and

00:09:02   and like that and sometimes I even write

00:09:05   blog posts and and these are all

00:09:07   completely different types of creative

00:09:11   or intellectual outlets and they and

00:09:14   like if I don't do any one of them for a

00:09:16   long time like I'm not as satisfied I'm

00:09:20   not as intellectually satisfied and

00:09:21   happy as if I'm do if I'm satisfying all

00:09:24   these different things you know often

00:09:26   and then you know I'll go in - I'll go

00:09:28   in phases where I will get more or less

00:09:30   into photography and I recently even

00:09:32   started doing video attempts and these

00:09:36   are you know it's it's all this all

00:09:39   serves multiple purposes you know as you

00:09:41   mentioned like it is nice to have just

00:09:43   the break it in but to me it's also nice

00:09:46   to be able to develop different parts of

00:09:48   your creative and intellectual mind and

00:09:51   and then 2sat it to exercise and satisfy

00:09:53   those in different ways yeah and you are

00:09:56   so it's it's also probably just it's a

00:09:59   weird thing to say but I feel like it's

00:10:00   it's a development look it's also a

00:10:02   discipline to think of for yourself of

00:10:04   looking at our our past experiences and

00:10:08   trying to see if there are any things in

00:10:10   there that like make us you better at

00:10:14   like the job at hand you know so we're

00:10:16   like if I look at my job it's like I'm

00:10:18   trying to make apps but I can look at my

00:10:21   past experience like what do i what

00:10:22   experiences do I have that mode make me

00:10:25   distinctly good at this and where can I

00:10:28   draw that from and like it may come from

00:10:30   things that aren't as obvious or aren't

00:10:34   as like straightforward like you know in

00:10:38   some ways I recently have been doing a

00:10:40   lot of health and fitness apps and it's

00:10:41   like some of that I'm drawing from

00:10:42   obviously my own experience I wouldn't

00:10:45   say like I'm a huge person who like me

00:10:47   I'm like I'm like a gym rat who works

00:10:48   out all the time but I've had a fairly

00:10:50   active lifestyle for quite a while and

00:10:53   it's like I can draw from those

00:10:54   experiences to be doing to an inform and

00:10:57   make my products better whereas someone

00:10:59   who didn't have that experience who'd

00:11:01   never you know gone to a gym in their

00:11:03   life couldn't really do the kind of apps

00:11:05   that I do and that's just an example of

00:11:07   the things that we do in our lives that

00:11:10   we couldn't use as a like an unfair

00:11:13   advantage because most of like being

00:11:15   able to be successful like it's always

00:11:16   so often it is predicated on finding

00:11:19   this little bit of leverage that is

00:11:22   somewhat unique to us that we can apply

00:11:24   in a way that it gives us an unfair

00:11:27   advantage over our competitors because

00:11:29   if we're just all the same then I guess

00:11:31   it's just completely random who's gonna

00:11:32   win but if you can find a reason that's

00:11:35   just like here's this thing that I can

00:11:36   do like I'm the person who had you know

00:11:38   has an active lifestyle who's been

00:11:40   making mobile apps for a while

00:11:41   Apple introduces this new API I jump in

00:11:45   and dive in I dive into it and start

00:11:47   using it like that narrows down the

00:11:50   world of people who can do that thing

00:11:51   and so looking back at our lives and

00:11:55   being like what if what do we do what

00:11:57   are we interested in like what hobbies

00:11:58   do we have you know what what does that

00:12:00   look like is it really I think good is a

00:12:03   good bit of like a mental discipline of

00:12:06   like that introspection is probably a

00:12:07   helpful thing to make sure that we're

00:12:09   not like missing some skill or ability

00:12:11   that we have that we could be leveraging

00:12:13   somehow in our work oh yeah because like

00:12:15   the the business implication you know

00:12:17   like so there was like the you know the

00:12:19   intellectual and creative satisfaction

00:12:21   implications of having all these

00:12:23   different skills that's one thing but as

00:12:25   you mentioned like the business side of

00:12:26   this is also incredibly important you

00:12:30   know because it goes beyond just like

00:12:31   you know what do I know that other

00:12:33   people don't know about making a new

00:12:35   type of app X into like if you have a

00:12:38   bit more broad or varied or specialized

00:12:41   perspective into the world you will not

00:12:44   only have skills that not every other

00:12:47   iOS programmer has but you will also be

00:12:49   able to identify opportunities and

00:12:51   identify new markets new kinds of apps

00:12:54   that can be made or markets that are

00:12:57   incredibly underserved or badly served

00:12:59   by what's out there now you will see

00:13:02   those before the whole rest of the world

00:13:04   will ever see them because you'll you

00:13:06   already be in that world like you know

00:13:08   like every time I go to the dentist I

00:13:09   always laugh at like how incredibly bad

00:13:11   their software looks on the screen

00:13:12   that's and that's in the the cleaning

00:13:14   rooms and it's it's like not Windows 95

00:13:17   software I'm just like you know not a

00:13:20   lot of iOS developer

00:13:21   our dental hygienists and so they they

00:13:24   don't see this this isn't a totally

00:13:27   underserved market and if you happen to

00:13:30   be an iOS developer who's also a dental

00:13:32   hygienist you could you would see this

00:13:35   and you might be able to make better

00:13:36   software that would help this market and

00:13:39   that's it's an area where almost no

00:13:41   one's competing right and so like this

00:13:43   is like there's so many different things

00:13:44   like almost everybody has some some need

00:13:47   or or hobby or skill in their life that

00:13:50   is fairly unusual among other developers

00:13:54   and you know use that like one of the

00:13:58   reasons I was able to to develop all the

00:14:00   overcast audio filtering stuff a couple

00:14:03   years ago is that I've been playing with

00:14:05   audio my entire life like I've always

00:14:08   been obsessed with audio I was doing

00:14:10   compression analysis and and weird like

00:14:14   attempts at horrible hacks and audio

00:14:16   processing since long before I was an

00:14:19   iOS developer I've just always loved it

00:14:21   I've always measured that I've always

00:14:22   you know done a lot of research about it

00:14:24   and and and known and known a lot about

00:14:26   it and you know it's just one of these

00:14:28   things like that helped me out

00:14:29   tremendously I could also take a decent

00:14:31   picture sometimes and so when I made

00:14:33   Instapaper and I needed an icon and I

00:14:36   had no money to give anybody else to

00:14:37   make me an icon I just took a pretty

00:14:39   good picture of the pages of a book and

00:14:41   I put like a little stupid Photoshop

00:14:43   border around it and in retrospect it

00:14:45   looked terrible but it was good enough

00:14:47   for the time like it was totally fine

00:14:49   and and I didn't I didn't have any

00:14:51   choice I couldn't afford a designer at

00:14:53   that time so I just did what I could

00:14:55   with my existing skills put it out there

00:14:58   and it worked fine it was good enough

00:15:00   and you know same thing like with with

00:15:02   screenshots with a lot of icon design

00:15:04   that I do inside the app like you know

00:15:06   now like I still have my my app icon

00:15:09   that was designed by a real designer

00:15:11   Louise Mantia but my all the all the

00:15:14   icons that are in the app I've designed

00:15:16   myself because that's good enough for

00:15:18   you know for my purposes like I've I

00:15:20   developed a skill to be good enough and

00:15:21   it works and then I'm able to make new

00:15:26   icons to make adjustments to change

00:15:28   things like colors and thickness and and

00:15:30   and alignment and everything else to

00:15:33   make little tweaks without having to go

00:15:35   back and forth to designer and pay a

00:15:37   bunch of money because I have the skill

00:15:39   now like the basically the smartest

00:15:42   thing you can do with these skills is

00:15:44   like find ways to rope them into your

00:15:48   business wherever possible so that's not

00:15:51   to say that every that you shouldn't

00:15:52   have anything that's just that's just

00:15:53   randomly fun but if you have other

00:15:57   skills that could be useful in your

00:15:58   isn't it like if you're looking to

00:15:59   develop some kind of visual artistry

00:16:01   skill and you happen to make iOS apps

00:16:03   well you know what you have a really

00:16:05   great opportunity right there to tie

00:16:07   those things together and to to design

00:16:10   the stuff in your app using your

00:16:11   newfound visual artistry skills like

00:16:13   there are there are lots of

00:16:14   opportunities that you will have as a

00:16:16   developer to integrate multiple skills

00:16:18   in and I think what we're saying this

00:16:19   episode is you really should and you

00:16:21   should consider learning different types

00:16:24   of skills or experimenting with

00:16:26   different types of things that could

00:16:27   benefit your apps we are sponsored this

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00:16:57   develop because it's like a little

00:16:59   computer for like 30 bucks and it's just

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00:18:17   20 thank you so much - so Joe for their

00:18:20   support of this show so given the

00:18:24   benefits that we're kind of extolling

00:18:26   about having side projects and having

00:18:28   these things that you do to kind of

00:18:31   build a breadth of skills and

00:18:33   experiences it doesn't mean that it does

00:18:34   come to mind to me though is the the

00:18:37   difficulty often in starting a new

00:18:39   project and so one I think it made sense

00:18:42   to wrap this up by kind of talking about

00:18:44   that process of having an idea for a

00:18:48   project a side thing and then actually

00:18:50   making it happen and like what comes to

00:18:51   mind to me is like for a long time I've

00:18:53   always been a longtime lover of podcast

00:18:56   and I would listen to podcasts all the

00:18:58   time and it was just like a big part of

00:18:59   my day and I was head in the back of my

00:19:01   mind like oh man I should get into that

00:19:03   I should you know I should make a

00:19:05   podcast I should do something for myself

00:19:06   and for a long time I didn't and the

00:19:10   advice that I actually ended up getting

00:19:11   I think that's pretty sure this was from

00:19:12   back to work for Maryland man is he was

00:19:14   like if you if you have something in

00:19:15   your mind that is that you keep saying

00:19:18   to yourself like oh one day I'll do this

00:19:20   one day I'll learn how to do that one

00:19:21   day I'll kind of go through and build

00:19:22   that discipline it's like what you

00:19:24   really need to do is just look at this

00:19:26   it's like make it very a time-bound

00:19:28   goal and do that thing on a regular

00:19:31   basis for that time and at the end you

00:19:34   can decide is this actually something I

00:19:36   like do I enjoy it is this or am I just

00:19:38   kind of having this dream that I'm gonna

00:19:41   love it and I'll actually try it and

00:19:42   I'll hate it and so for me like I

00:19:44   started the podcast I did before under

00:19:46   the radar developing perspective I

00:19:47   started it with a like this terrible

00:19:50   Logitech USB headset microphone like I

00:19:52   didn't don't body like don't like buy

00:19:54   into the lie that you need all this

00:19:55   equipment or you need all these fancy

00:19:56   things before you can start like you can

00:19:58   almost certainly start with just like

00:19:59   what you have like your smartphone can

00:20:01   do

00:20:02   most everything you could ever possibly

00:20:03   need for creative project and so just

00:20:06   like go with that and he said what I

00:20:07   just said is like okay I'm gonna do an

00:20:08   episode every day for I think I said

00:20:11   about three weeks in so I did which was

00:20:13   over 15 episodes 30 minutes her that was

00:20:16   15 minutes or less and so like I'm just

00:20:18   gonna do 15 15 minute episodes and if I

00:20:21   can do that and then it get to the end

00:20:23   of it like hey I can buy myself a good

00:20:25   mic and so on like at that point if I

00:20:27   decide that I want to do it but I found

00:20:29   it was really helpful to look at a

00:20:30   project like that and say it's like I

00:20:33   just need to commit to it try it and

00:20:34   then if I like it great if not you know

00:20:37   I can move on it for me it turned that

00:20:38   podcasting was great I enjoyed it and

00:20:40   you know I did

00:20:42   developing perspective for three or four

00:20:44   years and we've been doing under the

00:20:45   radar for over a year now

00:20:47   like podcasting is something that is

00:20:49   useful has been useful for my career in

00:20:51   terms of building a bit of a brand and a

00:20:54   personality online as well as it's like

00:20:57   useful in other weird ways like like I

00:20:59   said I did a walkthrough video for

00:21:01   workouts plus plus and it involved a

00:21:05   like a voiceover you know Mikey doing

00:21:07   this voice-over work as I show how to

00:21:10   use the app I did all the voice of work

00:21:12   in one take mostly because I have done

00:21:16   podcast for so long that speaking in an

00:21:18   uninterrupted kind of hopefully vaguely

00:21:20   coherent way is fairly natural now and

00:21:24   similarly like doing having started

00:21:26   podcasting the prospect of doing public

00:21:29   speaking was a lot less scary like I

00:21:31   used to think that was just like

00:21:32   absolutely terrifying that I'd be

00:21:34   standing up on stage and I just would

00:21:37   have no words and I would just be

00:21:38   standing there you know sort of

00:21:39   dumbstruck with nothing to say I'm less

00:21:41   worried about that now because I'm I

00:21:43   have the I've built the muscle and the

00:21:45   skill of sitting down in front of a

00:21:47   microphone and just talking for a while

00:21:50   and I got all that out of starting

00:21:54   actually just deciding that yes I'm

00:21:55   gonna try this I'm gonna try it and I'm

00:21:57   gonna start it and then I do said did

00:21:59   start it and then you know it worked out

00:22:00   and if I've gotten to the end of that 15

00:22:02   episodes and said you know what

00:22:03   podcasting soft for me it's like okay

00:22:05   that's great now I know that for sure

00:22:07   rather than kind of like kidding myself

00:22:09   about one day maybe sometime if I'm

00:22:13   lucky if I have time

00:22:14   you know when I'm less busy I'll be able

00:22:17   to do it like though that day is never

00:22:19   going to come and so if you it actually

00:22:20   isn't important to you you just need to

00:22:22   in one day decide yes I'm gonna do this

00:22:24   make it time down in short so you're not

00:22:26   actually kidding yourself and saying I'm

00:22:27   gonna do this for a year it's like no

00:22:29   like maybe you'll do it for a couple of

00:22:31   weeks and if you can do it at the end

00:22:33   for do it for that amount of time maybe

00:22:35   you'll want to do it for longer yeah

00:22:37   I'd also say that it helps a lot to you

00:22:41   know not only to to develop these skills

00:22:44   and and to be creatively satisfied and

00:22:47   to divide and to to find new markets for

00:22:50   apps and everything it also helps to use

00:22:54   what you have when choosing what to

00:22:56   build in your apps use the skills that

00:22:59   you have used the experience the wisdom

00:23:01   the equipment if that if that's

00:23:02   important to use what you have and to

00:23:06   choose what to work on based on that so

00:23:07   for instance I have now a lot of

00:23:11   knowledge about mp3s

00:23:14   audio podcasting how to process audio

00:23:17   how'd it how do you edit and create

00:23:18   podcasts how to play podcasts so I am in

00:23:23   a unique position here that most iOS

00:23:25   developers are not in to do additional

00:23:28   projects such as the mp3 encoder I'm

00:23:31   working on the chapter tool that I'm

00:23:32   working on and also possibly down the

00:23:35   road a podcast editor app like those are

00:23:38   all projects that I that should be on my

00:23:40   roadmap and and might and some of them

00:23:43   are you know those are all things that

00:23:44   like it would be an interesting idea and

00:23:47   probably a good idea for me to leverage

00:23:48   what I have he said you're wonderful

00:23:50   leverage were familiar leverage the

00:23:52   knowledge and experience and code that I

00:23:54   have to direct my future efforts right

00:23:58   it wouldn't make as much sense for my

00:24:00   next app to be like a calendar app

00:24:02   because I like I would have no advantage

00:24:06   over anybody else in making a calendar

00:24:08   app I have none of my experience leads

00:24:12   to that I have no existing code no

00:24:14   existing domain knowledge they're like I

00:24:16   would have to basically be relearning

00:24:17   everything just like anybody else

00:24:20   whereas if I made an audio editor that's

00:24:22   like a really big complex thing that you

00:24:24   could charge real money for probably and

00:24:26   but most people couldn't just jump into

00:24:28   them if anyone else wanted to make that

00:24:30   they would have to first spend a while

00:24:33   learning what I already know building

00:24:35   code I've already written and getting

00:24:37   experience I already have so like as I'm

00:24:41   choosing what to work on next I have to

00:24:42   think about like what is a good idea for

00:24:44   me to work on next and and that that

00:24:46   goes into other things like I know how

00:24:48   to market things that are related to

00:24:50   podcasts I like I know I have an

00:24:52   audience that cares about such things I

00:24:54   can there's there's some kind of

00:24:57   opportunities for integrations between

00:24:59   what I already have an app on cash

00:25:01   related thing whereas if I'm a counter

00:25:03   app next I have nothing I have I start

00:25:06   from zero and so this it really helps to

00:25:10   use what you have to help choose what

00:25:14   goes into your portfolio at all I mean

00:25:15   you're really good at this everything

00:25:17   you do recently has had a substantial

00:25:19   watch and fitness component because

00:25:21   you're really good at watch stuff and

00:25:23   Fitness stuff yeah and seeing that like

00:25:27   has in a weird way if I have had to make

00:25:30   peace with that like that you kind of

00:25:33   have did there in my mind I kind of look

00:25:36   at the world with like there's so many

00:25:37   different types of development that I

00:25:40   could want to get into that there's so

00:25:42   many things that I could like ins was

00:25:43   like a calendar app like I have ideas

00:25:45   for a calendar app like I have an idea

00:25:47   for almost every app of course like I

00:25:49   have a massive list of things that are

00:25:51   like one someday maybe maybe I'd love to

00:25:53   build I had taken a little bit of kind

00:25:56   of I never know like understanding to

00:25:59   just look at myself and be like you know

00:26:00   what I should do though I should make

00:26:02   the things that I'm uniquely good at and

00:26:03   the things that I have some more skills

00:26:05   and experience at because while it could

00:26:07   be interesting and fun to like make the

00:26:10   other kind of crazy app and go in that

00:26:11   direction like the reality is I'm

00:26:14   probably wasting my time if I go in that

00:26:16   way whereas if I do something that I you

00:26:19   know I have this these abilities and

00:26:21   skills and then I'm not and it's also in

00:26:24   a weird way like I think when I think

00:26:26   about transferable skills like I think

00:26:27   about how in a weird way it's kind of a

00:26:32   relief because it takes past failings or

00:26:36   things that didn't really work out

00:26:38   and lets you look at them in a more

00:26:40   positive light that like so I think

00:26:43   about like I did a serially this YouTube

00:26:45   you know video serious teeth about like

00:26:47   teaching it was like teaching people how

00:26:49   to make watch apps it's like this idea

00:26:51   that I had I put it on YouTube and a lot

00:26:53   to go would watch it and it would be you

00:26:54   know big exciting and it's this new line

00:26:56   of sort of like business for me but a

00:26:58   new big thing for me and I went nowhere

00:27:00   like hardly anybody watch them it was

00:27:02   ostensibly like a failure but if I can

00:27:06   if I can look at it instead from a

00:27:08   perspective of like take that experience

00:27:10   break it down into the skills that I

00:27:13   learned as a result from that like the

00:27:16   learned skills are never a failure like

00:27:18   the outcomes may have been failed like

00:27:20   they didn't go anywhere and they were

00:27:21   didn't really do anything but the things

00:27:23   that I learned in the process of doing

00:27:24   it is narrow that he's never wasted if I

00:27:28   can find a place to then put that into

00:27:29   my work and then now I can look at my

00:27:31   work now and say yeah it's like here's

00:27:33   the things that I can do I'm gonna make

00:27:35   things that work in that that focus into

00:27:37   that that used all these abilities that

00:27:39   I've been building up over time often

00:27:41   out of things that didn't work out in

00:27:42   the past and then you know apply that

00:27:45   into a new way and that just increases

00:27:47   the odds because ultimately I'll be like

00:27:49   we can own these are like guaranteed

00:27:50   ways to be successful like it's like all

00:27:52   we can do is just like turn the dial up

00:27:54   slightly so that's like we have a

00:27:56   slightly better chance of being

00:27:57   successful we have a slightly better

00:27:59   chance of making something like

00:28:01   impressive and awesome and this also

00:28:03   goes towards diversity of income and

00:28:06   resilience of your you know financial

00:28:08   independence to is like as you develop

00:28:10   these other skills that that are

00:28:12   separate from you know the raw iOS app

00:28:15   development core skill that you're

00:28:17   making your business you you then make

00:28:20   it easier not only for you to have

00:28:21   alternate income streams if you get good

00:28:23   enough entities things you could

00:28:24   actually make them side businesses but

00:28:26   also when the next big thing comes along

00:28:28   suppose the next big thing is some kind

00:28:31   of combination of iOS apps video

00:28:34   production and icon design like if you

00:28:37   already have like the pieces necessary

00:28:39   you can jump right into the next thing

00:28:41   the next kind of thing that comes around

00:28:43   faster and better than other people can

00:28:45   who are starting from scratch or who

00:28:46   have totally unrelated skills it really

00:28:49   like all these things that we've been

00:28:51   talking about about like

00:28:52   how to basically be like us or at least

00:28:54   how we how we'd like to be these all fit

00:28:57   together the end this is all part of one

00:28:59   big puzzle here that if you have diverse

00:29:03   skills from different areas that you can

00:29:04   bring together to make your iOS apps and

00:29:06   possibly also have different audience

00:29:08   growth from them or different revenue

00:29:10   growth the revenue diversity from them

00:29:11   that all fits together into making a

00:29:14   successful in your developer all right

00:29:16   and with all that said we are at a time

00:29:18   this week thank you very much everybody

00:29:20   for listening and we'll talk to you next

00:29:21   week bye