Under the Radar

◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show about

◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today we

◼   ► as we were sort of right now at the

◼   ► beginning of November it seemed a good

◼   ► time to talk a little bit about

◼   ► seasonality and the way seasonality can

◼   ► apply both to our work in terms of the

◼   ► things we're doing what we're promoting

◼   ► and the timing of when we launch new

◼   ► products or updates as well as a little

◼   ► bit just the seasonality of the work

◼   ► itself and the way that kind of works

◼   ► for us but especially I kind of it's

◼   ► something that comes to mind because in

◼   ► the early days of the App Store

◼   ► perhaps in the the first maybe three or

◼   ► four years there was a very strong

◼   ► seasonality to downloads and sales and

◼   ► especially in the sense that like the

◼   ► day Christmas Day the day after

◼   ► Christmas were massively huge sales days

◼   ► for Fermi back in those days and it was

◼   ► a reliable predictable thing that I

◼   ► would need as best I could to gear my

◼   ► entire business towards being available

◼   ► then because those few days would make

◼   ► up a non insignificant percentage of my

◼   ► revenue for the year like it wasn't like

◼   ► 50% more it was maybe like 10 percent of

◼   ► my revenue but still getting ten percent

◼   ► of your revenue in one week of the year

◼   ► meant that it was very important to line

◼   ► everything up and I remember doing lots

◼   ► of work where especially back when app

◼   ► review could take a very long time you

◼   ► know you'd be looking at at least 10

◼   ► days ish for a review and so you'd have

◼   ► all these things that I needed to line

◼   ► up to get you know submitted at the very

◼   ► latest by the beginning of December so

◼   ► that I could make sure I if I had a

◼   ► rejection cycle I could get it approved

◼   ► in time and you can't be happy in this

◼   ► mindset towards that and then I would

◼   ► say increasingly that is less though the

◼   ► way I think I think both Britos the

◼   ► impact of that has perhaps diminished

◼   ► slightly but also I think I just think

◼   ► about seasonality a bit more generally

◼   ► now and I think it's probably helpful to

◼   ► not just view it as everything is on

◼   ► that one day but I think there is a

◼   ► something to be said for thinking about

◼   ► your product and thinking about are

◼   ► there events or things that you can

◼   ► latch onto that would make sense to time

◼   ► you're launched and in two also in terms

◼   ► of promotion with Apple like this is

◼   ► something that I start to think about a

◼   ► lot more recently is how it's like the

◼   ► Apple AppStore editorial team's job is

◼   ► to find things that they can promote and

◼   ► to promote in a relevant way for them

◼   ► and they're always looking they're

◼   ► putting together to constantly these

◼   ► different sort of lists and bundles of

◼   ► applications to try and promote and

◼   ► thinking of ways to time things so that

◼   ► I can be part of that has become

◼   ► something that it seems like

◼   ► increasingly makes sense but it is still

◼   ► something that I think about as we're

◼   ► coming in to the end of the year and I

◼   ► still have in the back of my mind like

◼   ► I'm is everything gonna be inlined up

◼   ► there's everything gonna be ready and I

◼   ► think in general there's a strange

◼   ► aspect to that of I probably should

◼   ► always be worried about making sure that

◼   ► everything is buttoned down and ready

◼   ► but at least maybe these little

◼   ► seasonality things are good reminders to

◼   ► me that I'm starting to think like what

◼   ► are the App Store ratings looking like

◼   ► in all my apps are there things that I

◼   ► should do to make sure that's the case

◼   ► if I had I'd update with a bad set of

◼   ► reviews for whatever reason like do I

◼   ► need to get an update out reset my

◼   ► reviews and then try and mark it around

◼   ► improving that rating like these all

◼   ► these little things that are probably

◼   ► good to do all year round but especially

◼   ► probably good to do around big events

◼   ► when sales for downloads are gonna be

◼   ► higher yeah but I mean as you mentioned

◼   ► like it is really hard to tell when

◼   ► those times are gonna be now I mean

◼   ► they're you know the few obvious

◼   ► predictable ones or you know things like

◼   ► the holiday season and and new iPhone or

◼   ► new iPad release as I would say those

◼   ► those are the big ones but even those I

◼   ► think the reason why that we've seen

◼   ► over time things like Christmas Day and

◼   ► Christmas week being lower than in

◼   ► previous years

◼   ► I think the main reason why is that

◼   ► we're seeing fewer people who were

◼   ► getting their very first iOS device on

◼   ► these big holidays

◼   ► I think the there's much more people who

◼   ► are just getting replacement or upgrade

◼   ► devices or you know new customers might

◼   ► be just being more spread out throughout

◼   ► the rest of the year now who are new to

◼   ► the platform like people who are

◼   ► converting from Android if they want to

◼   ► and stuff like that

◼   ► so you know when when you get your very

◼   ► first device you go on an app spree and

◼   ► you go get a bunch of apps that you

◼   ► might like and want to fill it up or

◼   ► whatever and

◼   ► when when you're just getting a new

◼   ► phone for the year or your your second

◼   ► or third iPad then there's less there's

◼   ► a lot less of that like you know new

◼   ► apps pre that you go on and so I think

◼   ► that plays a big part of why like make

◼   ► your gift-giving holidays are no longer

◼   ► but you know a big thing for most app

◼   ► developers but you know a new a new iOS

◼   ► device releases obviously can be

◼   ► especially if you're like you know like

◼   ► you often do if you're taking advantage

◼   ► of a new API that or a new a new type of

◼   ► app that just became available with new

◼   ► hardware then obviously you're starting

◼   ► basically from zero so like those days

◼   ► you'll have really big you know those

◼   ► long cuz you'll have a really big

◼   ► potential there but it's also hard to

◼   ► tell now because we're seeing our income

◼   ► be spread out more as we switch more to

◼   ► ad based and in-app purchase based

◼   ► revenue models you know like it you know

◼   ► if you had you know what but we used to

◼   ► have pretty much all of it which would

◼   ► paid upfront apps paid up for an app

◼   ► stay really great on Christmas Day

◼   ► because you paid to get the app right

◼   ► then you wanted to use it these days if

◼   ► you get you know you might get increased

◼   ► downloads that day but your revenue

◼   ► might not show that for a while so it's

◼   ► it's all kind of blending together now

◼   ► but I think ultimately what it comes

◼   ► down to is the the saturation of the App

◼   ► Store so you know it makes it make

◼   ► everything harder makes it all the

◼   ► competition tighter and everything and

◼   ► makes each individual app have kind of

◼   ► lower lower Peaks I think and also just

◼   ► the fact that so many people already

◼   ► have iOS devices and the the new sales

◼   ► are more to people who were existing

◼   ► customers than the new customers yeah

◼   ► there is still something that I see that

◼   ► in my in my own time my own sort of even

◼   ► experience at the App Store that I do

◼   ► think there is still an element of and

◼   ► maybe it's less seasonality and more

◼   ► event-driven downloads i deceived myself

◼   ► like I I mean maybe the one that always

◼   ► comes to mind for me is whenever there's

◼   ► a hurricane threatening the United

◼   ► States the top like in all of a sudden

◼   ► the top charts are full of radar apps

◼   ► right like which is something that is

◼   ► not a predictable reliable season but

◼   ► there's these periods of increased

◼   ► interest in an application category that

◼   ► I definitely still have huge impacts on

◼   ► downloads and I mean I do a lot of

◼   ► health and fitness stuff and so the

◼   ► beginning of January just in the same

◼   ► way that a lot of people go and get gym

◼   ► memberships and then you never use them

◼   ► again but a lot of people will go and

◼   ► download health and fitness apps at the

◼   ► beginning of January when they're saying

◼   ► like hey I'm gonna start a new thing I'm

◼   ► gonna whatever like for my case I'm

◼   ► gonna start counting my steps or being

◼   ► more active or whatever that may be

◼   ► like there's this certainly this uptick

◼   ► in it or there's just those event base

◼   ► things but I think in both cases there

◼   ► is certainly still this element where

◼   ► it's possible to have these big spikes

◼   ► and in your downloads and so like for me

◼   ► I know I need to think about it as if I

◼   ► have anything that said that sort of

◼   ► rail health and fitness related it

◼   ► should be as tight and buttoned down as

◼   ► it can possibly be by the middle to the

◼   ► end of December because January 1st is a

◼   ► big time for me and I imagine similarly

◼   ► maybe if you're working on a weather or

◼   ► radar app it's like making sure that

◼   ► you're nice and put into put into place

◼   ► before hurricane and the hurricane

◼   ► season starts or before big winter

◼   ► storms might be coming sort of like

◼   ► whenever there's this external thing

◼   ► it's just probably good to be aware of

◼   ► because I know and for a lot of my

◼   ► planning when I'm just kind of doing

◼   ► things it's so easy to just kind of I'm

◼   ► just kind of working on it until it's

◼   ► ready and one of the benefits of being

◼   ► self-employed is that I can just work on

◼   ► it until it's ready and then ship it out

◼   ► and lose sight of the fact that like the

◼   ► there these opportunities that are

◼   ► coming and even the other thing that

◼   ► comes to mind even is if one day I'd

◼   ► ever hope to win any and an Apple Design

◼   ► Award for example like I there's a

◼   ► certain timing that I should probably be

◼   ► have in the back of my mind as I'm

◼   ► building my products if that's something

◼   ► that I wanted to work towards because I

◼   ► imagine they're looking for apps that

◼   ► are probably majorly updated or released

◼   ► it's probably between the latest iOS

◼   ► launch and the spring like that's when

◼   ► they're going to be most looking for

◼   ► those those things that are going to

◼   ► fill the slot that they want to promote

◼   ► and you know hold up as examples of

◼   ► things but even if it's not necessarily

◼   ► something that I'm trying to do there's

◼   ► some value to having taken a step back

◼   ► from what you're

◼   ► and saying is there a timing element to

◼   ► this that I should be aware of and not

◼   ► you know necessarily kill myself to make

◼   ► happen like oh no I absolutely have to

◼   ► get the shipped in the next two weeks or

◼   ► it's all gonna fall apart like if that's

◼   ► your business plan that's probably

◼   ► flawed but at the very least it's

◼   ► looking at it and being like is there

◼   ► something that I should be aware of that

◼   ► I'm gonna kick myself for not being

◼   ► aware of if I don't get taken into

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◼   ► aspect of seasonality that seemed like

◼   ► it might be worth unpacking a little bit

◼   ► is the way that I think i'ma even my own

◼   ► work I imagine your own your your work

◼   ► to marco like can be very seasonal

◼   ► especially when you're not employed in a

◼   ► typical profession where obviously like

◼   ► my work was not really seasonal when

◼   ► I've had a nine-to-five job I went here

◼   ► and I worked ostensibly anyway from 9:00

◼   ► to 5:00 in the day I'm pretty sure mine

◼   ► was seasonal you know just my bosses

◼   ► didn't necessarily know that or or they

◼   ► were doing their best to pretend like

◼   ► they didn't notice that yeah but there

◼   ► is an element in when you're

◼   ► self-employed but like that did that

◼   ► illusion doesn't work quite as well

◼   ► where you really like I know for myself

◼   ► Mike my productivity and the my

◼   ► motivation the way in which I seem to be

◼   ► able to actually get things done can

◼   ► tend to have a certain seasonality to it

◼   ► where there are periods of time during

◼   ► the year where I'm just like really

◼   ► killing it and like writing interesting

◼   ► you know write writing great great

◼   ► updates new code all these things like

◼   ► everything's working well and there'll

◼   ► be periods of time when it just doesn't

◼   ► happen and the difficulty I think is

◼   ► both in being aware of that as a thing

◼   ► and then you know and so that you're not

◼   ► surprised by it or you know sort of

◼   ► beating yourself up when like man I'm

◼   ► just really not getting a lot of work

◼   ► done and being like okay you know this

◼   ► is fine this is something that happens

◼   ► but then also probably good to have the

◼   ► element of planning around that and

◼   ► thinking about like if you have control

◼   ► over your schedule what would an ideal

◼   ► schedule be adapting it to yourself

◼   ► because I feel like it's so easy to fall

◼   ► into the pattern of and something I

◼   ► still struggle with of the feeling that

◼   ► like 40 hours of work is the thing that

◼   ► I'm trying to always get out of me every

◼   ► week irrespective of whether that makes

◼   ► sense both in terms of how I feel you

◼   ► know physically health-wise etc what's

◼   ► going on in my life personally what's

◼   ► going on in the world like there's lots

◼   ► of things that I think can either

◼   ► encourage or motivate good good and

◼   ► effective work or demotivate and kind of

◼   ► take that out of you and kind of

◼   ► planning around that it's something

◼   ► that's probably a wise and useful thing

◼   ► to do because it's it's a strange thing

◼   ► to think of it in some ways when you

◼   ► kind of know if I boil down the big like

◼   ► the most important important work I've

◼   ► probably done in my business has likely

◼   ► been done mmm it's probably in maybe

◼   ► about six weeks or so over the last

◼   ► eight years like in the sense that like

◼   ► the the first versions of most of my

◼   ► most successful apps so like the first

◼   ► app that I ever had that was successful

◼   ► was an app called audiobooks which isn't

◼   ► like an audiobook player and I wrote it

◼   ► in a week between I had it I was doing

◼   ► consulting at the time and I had a

◼   ► period just you know like in consulting

◼   ► is inevitably the case where I had like

◼   ► a contract and I had about a week before

◼   ► my next contract started and I was like

◼   ► you know I'm just gonna work on this app

◼   ► idea that I have for that week it was

◼   ► like in that one week I'd built the

◼   ► basic version of the app and I put it in

◼   ► the app store and that happened out to

◼   ► be yeah it's probably the how most

◼   ► downloaded app I've ever had and if not

◼   ► if it isn't it's definitely the second

◼   ► most and was the app that I've turned

◼   ► app development from a like a sideline

◼   ► or a small part of my business into my

◼   ► primary business I was like that was in

◼   ► one week's work and similarly with

◼   ► pedometer like it was I wrote that

◼   ► happened about a little over a week or

◼   ► about yeah I was about a week because it

◼   ► was announced at the keynote when they

◼   ► announced the 5s and then I had a week

◼   ► until the 5ns launched and that was all

◼   ► I had to build the app and there's a few

◼   ► other kind of periods like that where

◼   ► you can have these really focused

◼   ► intensive periods that at least for me

◼   ► have been really impactful and important

◼   ► and that's a strange thought when I try

◼   ► and unpack it and be like wow my career

◼   ► like what have I been doing for the

◼   ► other like whatever eight years - six

◼   ► weeks of my life

◼   ► I don't want to think about it too much

◼   ► but I think there is something that's

◼   ► good about thinking about and being

◼   ► aware of that your work is not

◼   ► necessarily this like we're the nature

◼   ► of being a software developer is not

◼   ► like we're building a wall or something

◼   ► where every all we need to do is like we

◼   ► go over here we pick up a brick we walk

◼   ► over to the wall we put a little plaster

◼   ► down with the next brick and we walk

◼   ► back and forth and we can keep doing

◼   ► that really no matter what like we can

◼   ► just keep adding bricks in the rate at

◼   ► which we add bricks is how much progress

◼   ► we made when was the last time you saw a

◼   ► construction project I don't know it'd

◼   ► be wonderful if they just kept going

◼   ► until they were complete with no random

◼   ► interruptions and long breaks of

◼   ► seemingly nothing happen no it is that's

◼   ► not software development at all like

◼   ► that's not the way that our work goes

◼   ► where it's this very creative like

◼   ► esoteric like sometimes you just kind of

◼   ► get the idea and you get to get in a

◼   ► flow and you can really do some cool

◼   ► work and then at other times you just

◼   ► really can't yeah I mean my issue with

◼   ► this some of it is seasonal for sure

◼   ► you know there's certain like times

◼   ► where where I have a lot more family

◼   ► obligations or family events to do

◼   ► things like you know around summer

◼   ► vacation or around winter holidays any

◼   ► kind of travel obviously is a huge deal

◼   ► in in terms of lordosis my productivity

◼   ► which is generally bring it to zero so

◼   ► that's that's that's a big deal but my

◼   ► problem more is it's not necessarily all

◼   ► the family stuff it's all the just

◼   ► unexpected stuff or everyday

◼   ► distractions or everyday errands or

◼   ► things like that where I find that I my

◼   ► schedule is basically perforated with

◼   ► like lots of scattered holes and it and

◼   ► sometimes I can really buckle down and

◼   ► just get it done anyway get everything

◼   ► done that I need to do anyway but just

◼   ► like the the the realities of everyday

◼   ► family life especially when you work at

◼   ► home and when you want to be you know

◼   ► heavily involved in your child care then

◼   ► it's it's there's a lot of holes in the

◼   ► schedule basically it's very hard to get

◼   ► long blocks and to really make that make

◼   ► that work and and a lot of it it's also

◼   ► just self-imposed I mean a lot of it I

◼   ► just thought I'm not a very focused

◼   ► person I'm very easily to stray

◼   ► did I don't have an incredibly strong

◼   ► work ethic so the idea of like just

◼   ► sitting down with a strong routine

◼   ► during the time I do have even that

◼   ► doesn't always work out for me

◼   ► and then you have the you have other

◼   ► problems you have things like I mean you

◼   ► know not to make this political with the

◼   ► current political events but like you

◼   ► have things like national events that

◼   ► happen you know that that can really

◼   ► change either your ability to work or

◼   ► your or your motivation or your mood or

◼   ► can it can be like you know for instance

◼   ► if you were marketing an app and if you

◼   ► wanted to launch an app right after this

◼   ► US presidential election that just

◼   ► happened

◼   ► the day after it happened if your app

◼   ► appeals ten if you're a potential to

◼   ► liberal people would be a terrible day

◼   ► to launch that because you know like

◼   ► that would be it's kind of a day of

◼   ► mourning for like the side that loses a

◼   ► presidential election and or if if

◼   ► there's like a big national tragedy of

◼   ► some kind like if there's like a

◼   ► shooting or something like that like you

◼   ► know you try to avoid or you know some

◼   ► kind of natural disaster or like trying

◼   ► to launch an app or or do anything like

◼   ► that day is probably a bad idea you know

◼   ► and and so there's all sorts of other

◼   ► factors that will that will come into

◼   ► your life in your schedule and will

◼   ► disrupt your plans and you you have to

◼   ► have enough padding and you and you have

◼   ► to have you know enough slack in the

◼   ► plans that you can accommodate for these

◼   ► things when they come and you know you

◼   ► won't always I mean sometimes these

◼   ► things just come at the worst possible

◼   ► times or they're completely unexpected

◼   ► or whatever else but you know you have

◼   ► to have slack in your plans for for

◼   ► unfitted events like that and and you

◼   ► know because regardless of what if

◼   ► regardless of whether you want them to

◼   ► happen they will happen and and you

◼   ► should be ready for that but you know

◼   ► ultimately the when it comes down to

◼   ► like everyday motivation I mean just a

◼   ► really inconsistent I will have some

◼   ► days or weeks that I'm just on fire and

◼   ► I just get tons done and it's just like

◼   ► I I will do like an entire major version

◼   ► of overcast like my 3.0 I can do a good

◼   ► chunk of the work for 3.0 in like two

◼   ► weeks but it'll take me six months to

◼   ► ship it because I have so much other

◼   ► stuff that I'm juggling and balancing

◼   ► and

◼   ► it's doing in like fits and spurts and

◼   ► attempting and then out that doesn't

◼   ► that didn't work so I've got a rollback

◼   ► try different approach whatever else or

◼   ► I'll just have like a month where I have

◼   ► so much family stuff and slacking going

◼   ► on that I just don't get anything done

◼   ► it's it's all I'm well I'm all over the

◼   ► map on that and it's part of the reason

◼   ► why I

◼   ► I typically look back on the time that I

◼   ► have spent like I look back on like a

◼   ► year I'm like what did I do this entire

◼   ► year and I'm usually not happy with the

◼   ► amount that I got done in software

◼   ► development I'm very I'm very proud of

◼   ► things like podcasts and I'm kind of

◼   ► forced to do those on a schedule look I

◼   ► had because I do them with other

◼   ► people's oh and there's sponsors and

◼   ► everything's like that there's an

◼   ► enforced schedule on that but the stuff

◼   ► that's more flexible I'm usually less

◼   ► proud of because I just I don't have a

◼   ► strong work ethic that makes me sit down

◼   ► and have these large blocks of

◼   ► uninterrupted work time consistently

◼   ► like I'll have those sometimes but I

◼   ► don't have them consistently but I think

◼   ► that's mostly my personality and I think

◼   ► there is something to be said though to

◼   ► fur and they'd only be touched from the

◼   ► end we touched on this last week we were

◼   ► talking about learning but there is

◼   ► something that I noticed for myself two

◼   ► of my it's easy to get stuck where you

◼   ► can do the interesting part of a problem

◼   ► or the like the part that's interest

◼   ► that's exciting to you yep and then you

◼   ► hit a point where you are having to do

◼   ► something that you don't really want to

◼   ► do and you suddenly your motivation and

◼   ► somehow magically disappears and you

◼   ► just like oh I'm suddenly very like this

◼   ► little distractible puppy that's just

◼   ► like oh there's a butterfly let me run

◼   ► around after it this is every time I've

◼   ► ever touched watchkit very I possibly do

◼   ► besides watch it yeah but I think it's

◼   ► important to understand that about

◼   ► ourselves

◼   ► we're like I have done that enough times

◼   ► that air than the first the first couple

◼   ► of times that that would happen like I

◼   ► don't think I had any self awareness

◼   ► that like what I'm doing is avoiding

◼   ► work because I don't actually want to

◼   ► work and the times that I'm very

◼   ► productive it's usually because I'm

◼   ► really excited or interested and you

◼   ► kind of get into these modes where all I

◼   ► think about is the problem I'm trying to

◼   ► solve and it's the like it can almost be

◼   ► annoying where

◼   ► I'm trying to do something else and it's

◼   ► like heaps the thought keeps popping

◼   ► into my head like oh what if I did this

◼   ► over here what if I did that over there

◼   ► and then like I'm in the shower and I'm

◼   ► like what you know like writing notes on

◼   ► the on the glass in the shower door

◼   ► being like these are things that I'm

◼   ► thinking about like it's if you're

◼   ► excited and motivated about what you're

◼   ► working on you're gonna be so much more

◼   ► productive and effective at it and

◼   ► that's something that I think for myself

◼   ► I've started to be very just trying to I

◼   ► try to be more conscious about this and

◼   ► that's only it's somewhat helpful

◼   ► because they're still necessarily going

◼   ► to be times that you have to do things

◼   ► that you don't want to do but at the

◼   ► very least if I can tell myself like

◼   ► have the sort of them the metacognition

◼   ► to say like the reason I'm taking longer

◼   ► to do this is because I'm not motivated

◼   ► to do it and at the very least then it

◼   ► gives me an opportunity to look at it

◼   ► and say is this really something I want

◼   ► to do is this something that I should be

◼   ► doing and I can make a decision and a

◼   ► choice and I can actually make the

◼   ► choice about it rather than just kind of

◼   ► pretending that it's not there and

◼   ► pretending that they're actual reason

◼   ► I'm not working or with actual reason

◼   ► I'm not making progress is because of

◼   ► something else something out of my

◼   ► control or something in my family or

◼   ► whatever it is that like there's a

◼   ► simply sometimes those things are just

◼   ► gonna impose themself upon you and

◼   ► sometimes I feel like for myself I can

◼   ► go seeking out those distractions or

◼   ► those things to pull me away because I

◼   ► don't actually care and I think having

◼   ► some degree of intentionality is helpful

◼   ► like I know for myself it doesn't it's

◼   ► not like it's this cure-all because even

◼   ► if the answer is like I don't want to do

◼   ► this because I don't want to do this but

◼   ► I still have to do this then well I'm

◼   ► kind of stuck and I just have to kind of

◼   ► transition into more like like crisis

◼   ► management of like how can I trick

◼   ► myself into thinking this is exciting

◼   ► and get it done but at the very least I

◼   ► can be aware of it and try and make some

◼   ► conscious choices about it that when I

◼   ► get into these kind of these funks in

◼   ► these seasons where I'm just not getting

◼   ► anything done

◼   ► maybe it's helpful to just think about

◼   ► it at least from that perspective and I

◼   ► think you know kind of wrapping it up

◼   ► back to the beat the beginning part of

◼   ► the show I think one of the things that

◼   ► helps a lot is a pretty strong

◼   ► externally imposed deadline you know

◼   ► like that that's one of the very

◼   ► from motivators I have is like if if I

◼   ► if I'm trying to get a nap or an update

◼   ► out but and it has to make it or I

◼   ► really should for business reasons make

◼   ► it you know in time for the next iOS

◼   ► update or the next iPhone or the next

◼   ► holiday season or whatever the case may

◼   ► be as we mentioned earlier that is often

◼   ► one of the only ways I can really be

◼   ► motivated to do something like you know

◼   ► this is something that I'm just not that

◼   ► I'm not motivated to do like some

◼   ► feature I don't want to do or some like

◼   ► nitty gritty detail that I just don't

◼   ► find interesting to work on or that I

◼   ► know is going to be tedious to work on

◼   ► you know that's having an externally

◼   ► imposed deadline or some other external

◼   ► pressure to do it is often necessary

◼   ► it's certainly helpful and as Indies we

◼   ► often don't have that especially like if

◼   ► things are going generally okay like if

◼   ► we're making enough money to survive and

◼   ► to stay in business it's hard to be able

◼   ► to be motivated by many other external

◼   ► factors for things like feature updates

◼   ► cuz like what do you really motive like

◼   ► right now there's nobody pressuring me

◼   ► to get over cast 3.0 out the door nobody

◼   ► like sure I have no reason to do it

◼   ► except that I assume at some point I

◼   ► will have competition so strong that I

◼   ► need to you know answer to it with my

◼   ► own updates or whatever else but besides

◼   ► that the main motivation for getting

◼   ► over cast 3 at the door is myself it's I

◼   ► am doing I think better things in it and

◼   ► I want I want everyone to see these

◼   ► things and to use these things and - I

◼   ► want the app to be better and that's a

◼   ► great motivation and if you don't have

◼   ► that motivation I think you're in

◼   ► trouble for lots of other reasons but

◼   ► that is not a rush like that that

◼   ► doesn't impose any kind of timeline on

◼   ► you and it's very easy to fall into the

◼   ► trap of like well I I can just make it a

◼   ► little bit better just a little bit

◼   ► better and oh if I don't release it in

◼   ► December well how about February how

◼   ► about April and just you keep going back

◼   ► and back and back and before you know it

◼   ► it's been like three years

◼   ► before you released anything and and

◼   ► that's that's not good for for your app

◼   ► or your customers or your budgeting or

◼   ► anything like that and so if times you

◼   ► really needs some kind of external

◼   ► pressure to get these things out the

◼   ► door yeah and even one little trigger

◼   ► I've definitely did use myself is

◼   ► the making it like it's bad to make like

◼   ► external public commitments about things

◼   ► and features and timelines oh yes don't

◼   ► do that don't do that but I do find that

◼   ► if I can if I can find non non

◼   ► commitment ways of sharing what I'm

◼   ► working on and kind of creating a sense

◼   ► of interest or anticipation from other

◼   ► people whether that's friends and family

◼   ► whether that's customers or people who

◼   ► follow you on the internet like whatever

◼   ► that looks like for you but I know for

◼   ► myself like even on the show like

◼   ► talking about my next app is written in

◼   ► Swift

◼   ► and put like making that commitment out

◼   ► just out in public it's like now when I

◼   ► hit the problems with this app that has

◼   ► been taking me much longer than I wish

◼   ► it would have and some of those are

◼   ► because I'm still learning Swift it's

◼   ► like I can't just say like okay I'm not

◼   ► just gonna do this or I'm gonna back out

◼   ► it's been instructive to have this

◼   ► external thing that it's like no no no I

◼   ► was like I'm I don't want to do the

◼   ► episode of like why I abandoned that

◼   ► commitment and so I'm being able to work

◼   ► towards it and similarly I've worked on

◼   ► other apps in the past where it's like I

◼   ► start talking about them at a high level

◼   ► or trying to which is good maybe good

◼   ► marketing to and kind of building a

◼   ► little bit of anticipation but even from

◼   ► a timing perspective to say that like

◼   ► here's something that I'm hoping to get

◼   ► out by and such and such and then what

◼   ► you as soon as it's outside of yourself

◼   ► and there's even this vague sense of

◼   ► someone else who might be expecting that

◼   ► I can find it can be a little bit

◼   ► motivating and a little bit of making a

◼   ► timeline for you to you know kind of

◼   ► move forward with things yeah that

◼   ► sounds good

◼   ► alright I think we're out of time this

◼   ► week thanks a lot to our sponsor Pingdom

◼   ► and thanks listeners for listening and

◼   ► we will talk to you next week bye