Under the Radar 45: Ads ★★☆☆☆
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welcome to under the radar a show about
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independent iOS app development I'm
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Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
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the radar is never longer than 30
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minutes so let's get started so today we
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wanted to talk again about the App Store
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and about how at the App Store is
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changing over time and especially around
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this time when iOS 10 is coming out and
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things are changing and especially this
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year where it seems like for the first
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time we're having all this change and I
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don't like tumult in the App Store where
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we're getting subscription of my model
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of changing their search ads coming
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they're purging old ad apps from the App
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Store they're changing app review review
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timing all kinds of things are changing
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in the App Store and all that change
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recently made me take a look back and do
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what I like I love doing most which is
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making a chart of course any time I kind
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of feel nostalgic or curious
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I'll try and make it to make a chart out
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of that and so what happened I did and
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this is a lot of we're gonna start
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talking about it's an article I wrote
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called evolving apps for business models
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which I'll have the link to in the show
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notes a lot of these things I feel are
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so easy to get stuck on like the way you
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feel now and these slow gradual changes
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are hard to really pin down for like
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what's actually been happening in the
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App Store because you know it's been
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quite a while since I've been it I
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submitted my first app I think my first
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app I submitted almost eight years ago
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and a lots changed since then
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and the interesting thing that I found
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is when I went back to my all like my
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app store sales data as far back as I
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had kept it and honestly I really wish I
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had my data all the way back to eight
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years ago but I just don't like I
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consolidated into a new like reporting
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system only like three or four years ago
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and certainly have dated back to then
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but then nevertheless you should release
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that oh it's awful it is it is one of
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those classic projects which I'm sure
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any developer can appreciate where it is
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it is designed to work for nobody but me
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like it like I do weird things it's a it
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makes no sense to anybody but me but for
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me it's perfect and like I have to run
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like these six scripts to get all the
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data in and the way I like it but it
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works for me so I would not recommend
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if you'd looking if you're looking for a
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sales and reporting system I'm sure
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there are many great hosted providers to
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do what you want to do don't roll your
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own I can tell you it's terrible but if
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you have this data you can go back and
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the most striking chart and I think the
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thing that is most strongly drawn
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attention to this article was I did a
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chart of the percent of my revenue from
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three different sources from an I
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purchase from paid sales and from
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advertising and the truly remarkable
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thing from that graph is the way that
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advertising has just been steadily
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clawing away at paid sales over the last
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four years to such a in such a linear
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and clear way that when I first saw it I
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was like wow like my date is broken like
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there's no way there's this linear of a
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progression like I'm doing something
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wrong in my analysis but turns out check
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the data this is what it is like I went
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from a period in the beginning of 2012
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where only about 10% of my revenue
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kimkim advertising and now it's getting
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close to about 80% now my revenue comes
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from advertising and interestingly over
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that period in our purchased in revenue
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has remained almost they almost constant
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like not quite it's certainly gone up
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and down but roughly it's been hovering
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around 15 to 20 percent of my revenue
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and that's kind of fascinating to me
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because it shows how in sort of stark
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numbers how the App Store has been
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changing in a way that I kind of feel
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that this has been changing you know
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it's kind of the old thing we've talked
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about for so long about the race to the
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bottom about lack of trials or the death
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of a paid model or repeat the devaluing
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of software like all these things that
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you could kind of the things that we
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talked about a software developers I
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always find it reassuring where rather
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than just kind of like wishy-washy
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talking about things to actually look at
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the numbers and say like is that
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actually true and yeah like as somebody
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who has been doing this full-time who's
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been doing it with a lot of apps who's
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been doing it probably more more
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importantly who's tried about every
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business model you can think of the ones
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that have worked over time has changed
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and the business model now that seems
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most reliable for me is advertising and
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vanishingly small percentage of my SAP
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and even more crazies when I look at the
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chart you can see part of what makes a
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paid sales so terrible because there's
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these massive spikes where I launched a
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new out big spike in paid sales and then
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it just falls off again and that more
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than anything else the thing that I you
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know really don't like about paid sales
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and how just volatile that is when
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you're trying to make a living from it
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yeah I mean we've all I mean anybody
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who's ever had a paid app in the store
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has seen this exact same pattern before
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of like you know if you're lucky you
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have the launch where you have a decent
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spike and then no matter what no matter
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how lucky you were at launch it just
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drops off after a few days probably at
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most and starts to level off into you
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know basically a slowly declining
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plateau after the Hat of sadness and and
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uncertainty and what I found is that
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every time you know if I have a paid app
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suppose suppose I do like a 2.0 or 3.0
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like a major update even if they get a
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lot of press I might get spikes on that
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day but it's never as high as the
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initial launch spike and you know and
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like every every spike you have
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subsequent to an app's launch is usually
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smaller than the one before it
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to the point where now like even makes
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your holidays don't really impact me at
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all like used to be like Christmas used
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to be a major sales day and and now like
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paid apps don't even do that well it's
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it's it's kind of sad really but I guess
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it does you know as you're saying here
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it really does reflect the the reality
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of what people are doing a regardless of
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how we think things should be or how we
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wish things would be this shows you know
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what people are actually doing how
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people are choosing to spend money or
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not spend money in the App Store I think
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is very clear here yeah and I think it
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speaks to you also how I look at this
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graph and I think to myself how I glad I
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am that I've been willing to experiment
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a lot because the thing that I I think
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is most dangerous in the App Store is
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not being flexible and not trying new
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things and try not moving around because
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they've definitely been times as I've
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gone through this we're like oh my god I
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really want to do that do I not want to
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do that dwell and it's interesting to
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see so clearly that if I had
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and if I'd been stuck on one model if
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I'd said like no this is how I'm gonna
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do sell my software you know it just
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wouldn't have worked like if my revenue
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was just my paid sales number for
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example like if that's what I'd stuck to
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and committed to you know I would be
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consulted at this point almost certainly
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I would or I'd be working you know a
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nine-to-five job somewhere like there
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just is there it would I would not be
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able to live on that near diminishing Li
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small part of the pie now and so by
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being a little bit flexible on that it's
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you know reassuring that like that was
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the right choice because at the end what
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I wanted was to be an independent to be
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able to make you know make that software
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I want to make and then make a living
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from it and to do that it's like this is
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this is what this is what that takes and
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this is what that looks like now I
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suppose yeah I mean you know if you look
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at your graph the one that's not like a
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hundred percent graph but the one that's
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just like a pure spiky graph it's it's
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interesting to note that like you
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basically are making a pretty similar
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salary steadily since about 2013 and if
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you subtract the advertising from that
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you see what I think most developers
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have seen since 2013 which is a slowly
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declining curve and and a lot of sadness
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as things decline and seemingly can't
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get back up so really which were you
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know I think which we're gonna talk a
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little more about it seems like
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advertising is kind of not maybe not
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saved you but certainly has been a
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massive part of your success over the
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last few years and it seems like that is
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the kind of the missing part that a lot
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of us Indies have not had over the last
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few years to keep it steady you know
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instead we only have those paid sale and
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maybe if we're lucky in our purchase
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sales like what you have but they have
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about the same shape that your graph has
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which is everything's getting harder and
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harder and harder and money's just
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getting lower and lower over time and
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the willingness to experiment is
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literally what's making your business
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now because you know you can experiment
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with different apps but if everyone
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experiments with different apps but only
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one or two payment models you're missing
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out and part of the experimentation like
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you know in this in your case
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experimenting with ads and various and I
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purchase schemes has really helped you
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a bit over anybody who just tried to
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sell an app for a few bucks and hope
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that it works because that can work but
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it's certainly a lot harder to make that
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work and I think over time it's working
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less yeah I think it speaks to also
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something that I've found that's like an
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unintended benefit of advertising for me
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is the reliability of the income that it
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gives and that's certainly not to say
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that it's always been this like it's not
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the same day-to-day and advertising is
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notorious for especially the first day
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of a new financial quarter and
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especially the first day of a new year
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falling off cliffs because everyone's ad
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budgets kind of a big a you know they
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spend them up and then you get to the
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end of the month day and if a quarter
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and they're like oh no we got all this
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money let's just spend it and your rates
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go up nicely and then the first you know
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like you get you hit that January
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February March and then all of a sudden
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like if they just falls off so it's not
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like it's completely reliable and once
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you've been through one of those crazy
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cliffs once or twice you kind of know
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what you're looking for looking at but I
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find fascinating is on a day to day
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basis these my sales income from paid
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things where I'm relying on somebody to
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open their wallet and hand me and me $2
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the variability I found between that is
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is it always been way higher than from
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advertising base and I think it's
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largely because advertising is
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functionally a measure it's like this
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rough measure of the engagement of users
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in my application you know how many
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times they're opening it how long
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they're opening it like it's that
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overall usage number and the that number
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is very stable to a certain point that
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you know you hope you had your app has a
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I guess it brings on more users than it
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loses as you go you know suit that you
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want you need those downloads at the
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beginning and then you have some kind of
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retention over time that you know some
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people will stop using your app and then
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they're replaced hopefully by new people
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and if that number is gradually working
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its way up in order for your income to
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go down like obviously the rates can
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drop which sometimes happens but usually
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they're fairly stable and so as a result
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your income just becomes fairly flat
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because it's only increasing or
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decreasing by the very slow adjustments
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from the amount of new users you get
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in the numbered users that you're losing
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and so if you have a big spike in new
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users it's like yay that won't actually
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make a big difference to your revenue
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that day though it's like it that read
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that ripped that spike gets averaged out
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over the next you know a few months as
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your daily active sessions or whatever
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the right measure would be slowly works
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its way up and you know say you make a
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change and people don't like it and they
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leave the app it's like that'll likely
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I'll be offset and the same thing like
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that that it's a gradual decline and
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that as a develop as an independent as
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somebody who makes you like who pays my
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mortgage with my app revenue that is so
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reassuring that if this feeling that I
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don't have to check my sales report
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every day and worry that you know it's
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like it is has this been a good weekend
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has this like for a while had apps that
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would do really well on Sundays and you
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know I'd have a sometimes I'd have a
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Sunday where it's something like my
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sales just wouldn't be what they were
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and it's like whoa like there goes 15%
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of my weekly revenue because it was a
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holiday or because there was an issue on
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the app store and payments weren't
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processing for a few hours which is
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something that's happened before and you
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look at those whoa this is really scary
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at least with advertising and that kind
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of a model and you'd say in some ways
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subscriptions have a similar kind of
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feel to them but it's lovely to have the
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sense of these slow and slow increases
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and slow decreases over time rather than
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these huge spikes that are up and down
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which are just so stressful our sponsor
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thought that would work and the Fed has
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off thank you very much to Linode for
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supporting this show all right so we've
◼
►
been talking about ads and your
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►
transition to a diversified income
◼
►
stream that includes ads in your apps
◼
►
and this got me thinking a while back
◼
►
you know maybe I should try ads in
◼
►
overcast because the problem I was
◼
►
facing so I wrote this big blog post
◼
►
kind of explaining all this in more
◼
►
detail but overcast has had you know
◼
►
three business models now though the
◼
►
first year roughly it was you know I
◼
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always wanted to be free upfront because
◼
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I have a lot of reasons why I want this
◼
►
why basically market share is more
◼
►
important to me than total revenue for
◼
►
this app I really want max
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►
market share and I'll try to get enough
◼
►
revenue somehow once I have that so I
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have the very first year I have you know
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►
free upfront and you get some of the
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►
features but you don't really get the
◼
►
best features things like smart speed
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►
and voice boost and like full playlists
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and everything like it was pretty
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►
limited and it was really annoying with
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with like how much in the app it was
◼
►
limited it basically it was not a very
◼
►
good app in this limited state and yet
◼
►
the vast majority of my users were using
◼
►
it in that state because most people
◼
►
didn't buy the one-time $5 an app
◼
►
purchase to unlock the cool stuff so
◼
►
trying to combat that problem about a
◼
►
year ago I switched to every feature was
◼
►
free and you just pay me what you want
◼
►
basically I did a monthly subscription a
◼
►
dollar a month and you could buy it
◼
►
ahead as long as you wanted it was not
◼
►
renewing it was the you know the old
◼
►
kind of solution where it doesn't auto
◼
►
renew so you basically just you know buy
◼
►
it for five years if you wanted to give
◼
►
me a bunch of money or just buy it for
◼
►
three months if you wanted to try it out
◼
►
but you didn't get anything for that and
◼
►
I was kind of banking on people's
◼
►
goodwill and it did work just not enough
◼
►
it it did work enough to get me a little
◼
►
over like I think just about one and a
◼
►
half percent or so or two percent
◼
►
roughly of of users to actually pay and
◼
►
subscribe but that was not really enough
◼
►
to really bring in meaningful revenue
◼
►
over time so instead I switched about
◼
►
six months ago I added a couple of
◼
►
features that had been very highly
◼
►
requested the main main one of which was
◼
►
dark mode a whole dark theme of the app
◼
►
i out of that too the app a that six
◼
►
months ago and that I added it only for
◼
►
people who were paying the voluntary
◼
►
patronage and that was weird for a
◼
►
number of reasons I mean first of all
◼
►
now it's still called patronage but now
◼
►
you get perks and so that's a little bit
◼
►
odd a lot of people have ejected to the
◼
►
terminology there and I understand why
◼
►
and then a lot of people are mad because
◼
►
people who had bought the original
◼
►
five-dollar unlock everything purchased
◼
►
the year earlier were very mad that here
◼
►
was a new feature that they did not get
◼
►
they were extremely mad and I heard from
◼
►
them constantly even literally for the
◼
►
last six months like it never stopped I
◼
►
from them and so I don't want to make my
◼
►
early customers so mad and then and then
◼
►
the final problem was even that while it
◼
►
did provide a nice bump to the number of
◼
►
people who were paying it didn't provide
◼
►
enough of a bump to make it really a
◼
►
sustainable good income so I could
◼
►
sustain the service on that just barely
◼
►
but but I really need more to to both do
◼
►
what I want to do with it and to justify
◼
►
pouring a lot a lot of my time into it
◼
►
rather than having to start exploring
◼
►
new projects so I decided ads were worth
◼
►
a try because as you said like ads make
◼
►
a lot of sense now you know there's a
◼
►
reason why so much that we that we
◼
►
consume and use in today's technology
◼
►
world is ad funded there's a big reason
◼
►
for that and that is that you know you
◼
►
basically anybody can use everything
◼
►
they want for free you just have to
◼
►
tolerate these ads and most people don't
◼
►
mind ads you know I don't know anybody
◼
►
who loves ads but most people don't mind
◼
►
like they know people will give will
◼
►
take that trade off if the trade off is
◼
►
I would rather not pay but I'll take ads
◼
►
or you can pay and then you won't see
◼
►
ads most people will choose the the add
◼
►
option there because they don't want to
◼
►
pay and that's fine it seemed to make a
◼
►
lot of sense the the the main risk to
◼
►
this was of course that here I had this
◼
►
app that is very well regarded by a lot
◼
►
of people very it's used by a lot of
◼
►
people many of whom were very strongly
◼
►
opinionated and it looks you know had a
◼
►
good design you know has it has a good
◼
►
design it looks nice and a lot of people
◼
►
were going to see me triads and I've had
◼
►
various opinions of ads over the years
◼
►
and again I I don't love them either but
◼
►
I consider them kind of the the
◼
►
acceptable trade-off for what we're
◼
►
doing here so I was very very scared to
◼
►
release this this was this was the most
◼
►
nervous I've ever been about really seen
◼
►
anything since I've done a 1.0 and I
◼
►
released it and overall the the reaction
◼
►
was better than I expected it was it's
◼
►
not great I wouldn't say it's a great
◼
►
reaction but I would say it's a lot less
◼
►
horrible than I was predicting and that
◼
►
I was prepared for my star rating is in
◼
►
this was the this is the first time
◼
►
overcast has ever had a star rating
◼
►
below four-and-a-half I believe now I'm
◼
►
at two and a half something like that
◼
►
so my ratings destroyed and that's gonna
◼
►
hurt me a lot I hope that's only
◼
►
temporary we will find out I'm getting a
◼
►
lot of angry emails and tweets and lots
◼
►
of them lots of people who are not very
◼
►
kind about about this change but on the
◼
►
other hand I've gotten a whole lot of
◼
►
people who are totally ok with it and
◼
►
like that there's no longer this weird
◼
►
difference between like special features
◼
►
that patrons get and you know and this
◼
►
weird terminology of patron eggs that
◼
►
even though it is also including special
◼
►
features so now I simplified things so
◼
►
now you have these ads and if you don't
◼
►
want to see ads and then down the road I
◼
►
might add a few little things here but
◼
►
if you don't want to see ads you can buy
◼
►
the annual subscription which is a new
◼
►
Auto renewing kind and it's just called
◼
►
overcast premium so no more like patron
◼
►
eggs wording like you know no more
◼
►
messing with ideas of you know goodwill
◼
►
or charity over in that area because
◼
►
that was as I said problematic for a lot
◼
►
of people now it's just called premium
◼
►
you pay ten bucks a year you get ads
◼
►
this is a simplification even from the
◼
►
previous subscriptions they were a
◼
►
dollar a month so it was twelve dollars
◼
►
a year if you paid annually this is even
◼
►
cheaper ten ten dollars a year because
◼
►
it's nice and simple you know and I even
◼
►
adjusted on all the different currencies
◼
►
around the world so that like a lot of
◼
►
the Euro based ones we're gonna be like
◼
►
ten fifty euro and I said now just you
◼
►
know $9.99 is fine or 10 even whatever
◼
►
it is so made it very simple much
◼
►
clearer wording and a much honestly
◼
►
simpler business model there's ads in
◼
►
the app if you want to get rid of them
◼
►
you pay me ten bucks a year the the
◼
►
amazing thing about this is that I get
◼
►
recurring revenue from anybody who's
◼
►
actually using the app so I'm getting it
◼
►
somewhere whether it's the ad or whether
◼
►
it's subscriptions I'm getting recurring
◼
►
revenue from usage and it's exactly what
◼
►
you said earlier David it's like you
◼
►
know I'm incentivized to keep people
◼
►
using the app and to make the app good
◼
►
enough the people keep coming back and
◼
►
using it I don't I know longer have an
◼
►
incentive of like what am I gonna do to
◼
►
push people over the over like the next
◼
►
big version or what kind of crazy
◼
►
features can I come up with that'll make
◼
►
pay and you know anger everybody else
◼
►
like I really have to make the app
◼
►
better now and as long as I do that I
◼
►
make money from everybody who uses it
◼
►
and it's not like a massive amount more
◼
►
money but it is more and and the ads you
◼
►
know it's a little early to say how well
◼
►
the ads are working because it's only
◼
►
been a few days since I've had them in
◼
►
but even in these few days I've gotten a
◼
►
ton of more of more subscriptions it's
◼
►
not you know I haven't like doubled or
◼
►
anything and but that might happen who
◼
►
knows I haven't doubled yet but I
◼
►
certainly have a lot more subscribe or
◼
►
subscribers these are also now all in
◼
►
the new apple autumn renewing system so
◼
►
that means a year from now if they still
◼
►
subscribe I will get 85 percent instead
◼
►
of 70 percent from them which is a big
◼
►
and the ads are kind of making up the
◼
►
difference of you know trying to give me
◼
►
some money for everyone who's not a
◼
►
subscriber and you know right now the
◼
►
amount of money the ads are making is
◼
►
fairly modest but you know it's still
◼
►
very early and I still could experiment
◼
►
with different placements of the ad
◼
►
different formats of ads things like
◼
►
that and I think it's ended up working
◼
►
out the I mean I'm going to have to
◼
►
figure out how the heck to make
◼
►
everybody happy enough to stop giving me
◼
►
1 star reviews and sending me nasty
◼
►
emails because my star rating is as I
◼
►
mentioned down from four and a half to
◼
►
two and a half with a very large volume
◼
►
so I don't know about that but the rest
◼
►
of it seems to be working ok sure and
◼
►
the reality is - it's the awkward thing
◼
►
of so much of this is coming I think
◼
►
from the change in business model like
◼
►
if this was if the app that you just
◼
►
released were overcast 1.0 I doubt you
◼
►
would have that same negativity because
◼
►
that's just the nature of these things
◼
►
where people are like oh I had this
◼
►
thing it's like you were giving me this
◼
►
great app for free with nothing in with
◼
►
no impingement at all upon me now it's a
◼
►
free app that is impinging on me
◼
►
slightly by showing me you know ads at
◼
►
the tops of some of the lists and so
◼
►
that change it's like it feels like
◼
►
you've taken something from me which
◼
►
we've done really but you know that's
◼
►
the way it feels I imagine and so you
◼
►
know over time I suppose in some ways
◼
►
it's one of the nice things where well
◼
►
one day I would love for the App Store
◼
►
to do like a rolling average of reviews
◼
►
the next time you do an update your
◼
►
we'll reset again and you can hopefully
◼
►
put a lot of these one stars behind you
◼
►
you know and just sort of go from there
◼
►
yeah I think that's really you know what
◼
►
I'm doing here I mean and a lot of
◼
►
people have asked why I why I didn't
◼
►
release this as part of a bigger 3.0
◼
►
update and I think the results speak for
◼
►
themselves if I have leased this as part
◼
►
of a whole bunch of other features and
◼
►
changes and a big push similar to
◼
►
Apple's headphone jack thing the story
◼
►
would have been all about the ads and
◼
►
the star ratings would have been all
◼
►
about the ads and the reviews would be
◼
►
all about the ads and I feel like that I
◼
►
I'm better off making this transition to
◼
►
ad based now while I'm still in the
◼
►
two-point X series and then when I do a
◼
►
big 3.0 release down the road hopefully
◼
►
not too far down the road but when I do
◼
►
it down the road this story will already
◼
►
include like people who write about
◼
►
overcast people who review or guys
◼
►
people who use overcast will all already
◼
►
know okay this happens I had driven so
◼
►
that that'll be old news you know just
◼
►
like the headphone jack thing and the
◼
►
iPhone this week you know we all knew
◼
►
about it months ago so now it's old news
◼
►
I'm real kind of accepting it and moving
◼
►
on and just evaluating the iPhone on its
◼
►
other merits that's how this is gonna be
◼
►
I think with overcast 3.0 that you know
◼
►
I'm going to be able to now do things
◼
►
freely and and make the app great on its
◼
►
own merits and the story won't won't be
◼
►
just about the ads when I finally launch
◼
►
it and perhaps even more over it seems
◼
►
like imagine no not to speak for you but
◼
►
there's a slightly better incentive for
◼
►
you to really put that work into 3.0
◼
►
because if it if it feels more
◼
►
sustainable and viable it's not like
◼
►
doesn't feel like you're just putting
◼
►
more time after something that kind of
◼
►
is slowly decaying over time that you're
◼
►
just kind of you put all this effort
◼
►
into a 3.0 all these new features all
◼
►
those big updates and then it's like and
◼
►
it's not actually gonna make any
◼
►
difference at the end of the day like
◼
►
you could just leave the app as it is
◼
►
now and hope for the best that is
◼
►
entirely correct I mean I I was really
◼
►
you know not not in a very good
◼
►
psychological place about the app before
◼
►
long stats because revenue was just flat
◼
►
and and flat at not a particularly great
◼
►
level and I didn't really know what else
◼
►
to do it felt hopeless and now I have
◼
►
this big influx of subscribers and I
◼
►
have this nice little kind of side money
◼
►
and that is amazing and that has a
◼
►
little fire under me now you're totally
◼
►
right it has totally turned around my
◼
►
motivation I'm not thinking of like Oh
◼
►
what other apps could I make to make
◼
►
more money no now I'm just thinking how
◼
►
do I make this even more amazing and I
◼
►
have had an amazingly productive few
◼
►
days since since launching me HAP's
◼
►
arson selection the ads rather of just
◼
►
making the app incredibly better like
◼
►
getting a lot of stuff done on 3.0
◼
►
working through like some navigation
◼
►
changes and making some like custom
◼
►
animations and you know cool stuff like
◼
►
that that that you that you can kind of
◼
►
only do if you're making money or if you
◼
►
if you think you're going to make money
◼
►
I don't have like investing into it not
◼
►
just like bullet point features but like
◼
►
polish and fun new things and rethinking
◼
►
some of the design aspects and and you
◼
►
know I'm making I made the watch app a
◼
►
lot better you know for 3.0 also and now
◼
►
I can think about adding it today widget
◼
►
and all this bogus that now just called
◼
►
widgets all this stuff that I can now do
◼
►
because there's money coming in and at a
◼
►
reasonable rate now that I can I can be
◼
►
relatively assured of its future and and
◼
►
that's something I couldn't say before
◼
►
and and that made me you know honestly
◼
►
quite sad pretty much all all summer as
◼
►
I watched the sales just kind of
◼
►
flattened but now things have turned
◼
►
around and I am kind of on fire now and
◼
►
I'm like plowed through and doing all
◼
►
sorts of great stuff and it feels great
◼
►
and I think in the long run you know
◼
►
even though right now it is quite
◼
►
painful to see my rating go goes so far
◼
►
down the tubes and to get all these
◼
►
angry messages from people but I think
◼
►
long term it will be better for my users
◼
►
overall yeah and I think the thing that
◼
►
I love so much about this change is like
◼
►
you answer with are what they are like
◼
►
you can sometimes I feel like we can
◼
►
moralize about them and get all like
◼
►
fancy about it but at the end of the day
◼
►
they're just a tool for businesses to
◼
►
make money and what I love though is
◼
►
that it lets you like with the things
◼
►
that you're talking about the thing that
◼
►
I love about that is it's allowing you
◼
►
to not have to make this big case of
◼
►
like I always hate the three-point owes
◼
►
that feel like it's like the kitchen
◼
►
it's like everything in the kitchen sink
◼
►
right it's just I have to have these I
◼
►
have I did all my good features in
◼
►
version 1 I can made up some other stuff
◼
►
for version 2 version 3 here's just
◼
►
everything else I could think of is just
◼
►
an assault by feature checklist it's
◼
►
like now you can just say you know I'm
◼
►
just gonna polish I'm just gonna keep
◼
►
make it better and better and better
◼
►
because I'm not trying to upsell you on
◼
►
a paid upgrade I'm not trying to do
◼
►
something like that I just want to make
◼
►
the app as like the absolute best it can
◼
►
and that sounds like an awesome place
◼
►
for you to be it really man it feels
◼
►
great I mean you've been here before I'm
◼
►
sure like it feels great and so I'm I'm
◼
►
just so happy to finally kind of be like
◼
►
be back in it again and and to feel good
◼
►
about its financial future again it's
◼
►
awesome all right well here's hoping it
◼
►
goes well and we're out of time this
◼
►
week thank you everybody for listening
◼
►
and we will talk to you next week bye