The Incomparable

139: Flying Horse Angel People


  the incomparable number 139 maybe 20-30 [TS]

  welcome back to being comfortable [TS]

  podcast I'm your host Jason smell and [TS]

  tonight we're convening an interesting [TS]

  collection of panelists to have for an [TS]

  interesting topic i would say we're [TS]

  going to talk about a wrinkle in time [TS]

  the classic children's book the first [TS]

  and what apparently as a series of five [TS]

  books on this subject but I remember [TS]

  none of them but the first one and only [TS]

  read i think one of the others but the [TS]

  news peg here the thing that makes this [TS]

  extra relevant for today's audiences is [TS]

  that recently hope larson created a [TS]

  graphic novel adaptation that i also am [TS]

  holding i have each of them in one hand [TS]

  right now many of us remember this book [TS]

  from our childhood in fact the i'm [TS]

  holding in 1978 del yearling addition of [TS]

  a wrinkle in time with the childlike [TS]

  handwriting of my wife on the inside [TS]

  from when she lived in hollywood [TS]

  california short was nine years old and [TS]

  I and then of course the new hope larson [TS]

  so we're going to talk about this book [TS]

  and who knows where it will take us my [TS]

  panelists to discuss this are Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser you heard her laughing hi [TS]

  Lisa [TS]

  hi it's good to have you here it's nice [TS]

  to be here thank you serenity Caldwell [TS]

  is also here [TS]

  hi hi Jason good to have you and his [TS]

  first time not not really appearing on [TS]

  the podcast but his first time is an [TS]

  actual panelist it is the author of the [TS]

  incomparable radio theatre on the air [TS]

  and somebody who reads things apparently [TS]

  too because he's read this it's david [TS]

  lower high i had to be here [TS]

  yeah it's good to have you a regular [TS]

  time I remember this book very clearly [TS]

  from when I was a kid I I my copy didn't [TS]

  I think survive to my adult life I had a [TS]

  wind in the door I think that that I [TS]

  managed to keep for a long time and I [TS]

  always thought it was funny that I had [TS]

  the receipt one of the sequels and could [TS]

  never find my original and then I [TS]

  thought I'd found it turns out that it [TS]

  was just the one that my my wife had [TS]

  brought to the to the marriage it's like [TS]

  her name's on the inside it's proof that [TS]

  it's not mine but but and i have this [TS]

  memory of that yellow cover with the [TS]

  sort of scent or alien with a rainbow [TS]

  coming out of its back and this is the [TS]

  copy holding my hand [TS]

  what they've got they've got the rainbow [TS]

  wings on the the Centaur take a corn [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah and that and then in the middle of [TS]

  the floating green it brain [TS]

  oh I don't have that yeah that's the 1i [TS]

  have no yes it has the floating green it [TS]

  bring the lower third the lower third of [TS]

  the book spoilers and then there's the [TS]

  there's the the rainbow egg accord [TS]

  enough dude and then minus the newbery [TS]

  award winning classic metal legs yeah [TS]

  yeah that's well that's we have slightly [TS]

  different editions I'm not really happy [TS]

  with my rainbow rainbow centaur person I [TS]

  actually like the rainbow centaurs in [TS]

  the hope larson adaptation a little bit [TS]

  more because they look like wings where [TS]

  is this is like this is like the [TS]

  painting on the set of and the 70 yeah [TS]

  it's like a rainbow they were stabbed in [TS]

  the back by radio now there's a rainbow [TS]

  stuck in their bag because you can just [TS]

  see it's like it's like that up there be [TS]

  a purple van and you know that would be [TS]

  like a dreamcatcher hanging from the [TS]

  window and this would be airbrushed onto [TS]

  one side of it and the people driving it [TS]

  would tumble out make it smell like [TS]

  menthol right on [TS]

  exactly yeah spiritual unicorn you know [TS]

  listen you sure sure exalted more in [TS]

  keeping with the angles of aesthetics so [TS]

  I guess we should start by talking a [TS]

  little bit about about what your history [TS]

  is with this with this book if you've [TS]

  got a fun childhood memory like i said i [TS]

  remember reading it and the sequels and [TS]

  keeping it around and finding it very [TS]

  strange but I didn't have you know my my [TS]

  memory of the book the only one that I [TS]

  can remember it you know with is this [TS]

  first book and it's funny my memory of [TS]

  it is very specifically the the [TS]

  beginning more it although a bit so [TS]

  thinking about it I kept thinking I only [TS]

  remember the first couple of chapters [TS]

  and then there's this whole other plot [TS]

  that happens after that and then reading [TS]

  it back the part that I remember as the [TS]

  very beginning of the book it's like [TS]

  more than half the book because this [TS]

  book is very strangely paste and I think [TS]

  we'll probably get to that where things [TS]

  that I think of this like sort of setup [TS]

  and meeting the characters you realize [TS]

  you're more than halfway through the [TS]

  book and you're still just sort of [TS]

  meeting the characters but so let's see [TS]

  what wonder what are your histories with [TS]

  it let's start with lisa i read the [TS]

  trilogy for the first time in fourth [TS]

  grade [TS]

  made it was in our classroom library and [TS]

  I think that brought it home over the [TS]

  weekend and and I think by that tuesday [TS]

  i had raided my allowance and God back [TS]

  and bought my own trilogy and I used to [TS]

  have a little cardboard box that went [TS]

  around the three books so it was a gift [TS]

  set is very excited about it um it would [TS]

  not be an exaggeration to say that a [TS]

  wrinkle in time blew my mind and the [TS]

  thing that sticks with me to this day is [TS]

  toward the end of the book when we find [TS]

  it [TS]

  22 mrs. whatsit talks about the sommet [TS]

  it's like yeah it's on page 179 in my [TS]

  book you can control condition in which [TS]

  humanities life on this earth is [TS]

  described as a sauna it's on it and what [TS]

  she explains is that sounded only works [TS]

  when does haven't been in look and I [TS]

  think one of the reasons that sucks that [TS]

  suckers were actually doing science in [TS]

  class at the time to as a form of poetry [TS]

  so so the seed was there but just the [TS]

  idea that within very strict parameters [TS]

  you could you have limitless potential [TS]

  to to work up and within and to create [TS]

  something beautiful that somehow managed [TS]

  to jump outside those parameters while [TS]

  honoring them being shaped by them that [TS]

  was an idea i had never encountered um [TS]

  because nobody in my eat because it's [TS]

  not like you know you have these [TS]

  conversations their parents of the [TS]

  dinner table may explain to you now [TS]

  honey you know if you set strict limits [TS]

  and discipline what you can do is [TS]

  cultivate the mental base that you like [TS]

  your parents are going to do that when [TS]

  you're 19 years old and this was really [TS]

  the first time i was able to put [TS]

  together things like if I understand and [TS]

  learn the fundamentals of math or [TS]

  language or music or writing once I [TS]

  figure out what those are I can do [TS]

  anything I want with them and the [TS]

  metaphor of create of limitless [TS]

  creativity within very strict structure [TS]

  has been one that i have found to be [TS]

  incredibly useful throughout my entire [TS]

  life and I am I credit this is book so [TS]

  you know i can literally feel my brain [TS]

  the pathways my brains shifting and [TS]

  moving around when i read that the first [TS]

  time and it's it wasn't available that [TS]

  said I've still never been able to [TS]

  conceptualize a tesseract like i just [TS]

  looked [TS]

  it's a square square root of the sport [TS]

  again yeah bring I think about it really [TS]

  hard men go oh I had for a second [TS]

  yeah David what's your original your [TS]

  history with this will add you know my [TS]

  mother was a writer and she was also a [TS]

  theologian so you know I kind of came at [TS]

  the books with you know a little bit of [TS]

  the religion going on at the same time [TS]

  because they're fairly religious arm and [TS]

  so I mean they were just always in the [TS]

  house you know as far back as I can [TS]

  remember there was this one bookshelf [TS]

  that was talking and CS lewis and [TS]

  Madeleine L'Engle and Charles Williams [TS]

  and and one day my mother just took she [TS]

  actually took swiftly tilting planet [TS]

  which was the third one and took it off [TS]

  the shelf and said here try this and I [TS]

  don't know why she gave it to me out of [TS]

  order but huh whatever continuity and [TS]

  spoilers over well in the end of the [TS]

  last two that she wrote that are in that [TS]

  set they actually they're not [TS]

  chronologically the last two it's really [TS]

  weird anyway so the I mean I i had read [TS]

  them when i was thinkin second or third [TS]

  grade and it was the same kind of thing [TS]

  it was sort of oh my god you know the [TS]

  the the the thought and the thought of [TS]

  the sonnet and then that you know you [TS]

  you could create you know once you [TS]

  figured out the pattern you were set for [TS]

  everything else right and then I didn't [TS]

  read them for years and years and years [TS]

  and so it was interesting to come back [TS]

  to them now and sort of fill in the [TS]

  blanks as i was going because i read the [TS]

  graphic novel first and I and I was like [TS]

  wheat that where did what did she leave [TS]

  out there and then I went back to the [TS]

  book and when oh yeah I remember that [TS]

  was a little surreal [TS]

  oh but but yeah it was sort of [TS]

  interesting again how much I remembered [TS]

  of the setup and how much I remembered [TS]

  of the the the place setting for each [TS]

  each environment they go to write and I [TS]

  didn't remember the details I didn't [TS]

  remember [TS]

  the quotes or the the very very faint [TS]

  theology that's in there already what [TS]

  about you [TS]

  this is a book i read very very early on [TS]

  when I was younger my parents were [TS]

  musicians they played at a at a church [TS]

  every weekend and before the church [TS]

  service they had to go in ridiculously [TS]

  early 637 in the morning to get [TS]

  everything set up and to start start [TS]

  choir and in the meantime my mother [TS]

  would drop me off with a friend of [TS]

  mutual friend who also went to this [TS]

  church and her daughter Kate was the [TS]

  same age as me and I think at this point [TS]

  we were probably six or seven something [TS]

  like that maybe maybe closer to 10 i [TS]

  mean we we basically hung out every [TS]

  Saturday for five or six years and kate [TS]

  and and her mother were rabid book [TS]

  collectors and her mother worked for the [TS]

  LA times so I every week I was basically [TS]

  going over to Kate's and pulling off a [TS]

  different book from her shelf and taking [TS]

  it and hiding it in church and when I [TS]

  when I accidentally picked up Franklin [TS]

  time it was one of those things where [TS]

  you start reading it you don't really [TS]

  realize that it's a book that's going to [TS]

  affect you as much as it does because it [TS]

  starts off very simply but very [TS]

  truthfully you know I'm even even at [TS]

  nine or ten yeah you can still it still [TS]

  resonates very deeply the feeling of you [TS]

  know if you're a little bit stranger [TS]

  than everybody else for your little bit [TS]

  outside of the curve you can really [TS]

  identify with meg you can identify with [TS]

  Charles Wallace and there are a lot of [TS]

  these characters that really resonate [TS]

  even if you're not quite sure by their [TS]

  resonate it's a it's a book for me that [TS]

  you know what when i read it the first [TS]

  time I just thought it was brilliant and [TS]

  I went I went back and I stole the rest [TS]

  of them from katie and read through [TS]

  those up a storm and then basically [TS]

  pestered my mother daily until I could [TS]

  actually go to a bookstore and buy the [TS]

  sets but you know when I look back on it [TS]

  it's a weird it's a it's a book that I [TS]

  value very it's a book of value very [TS]

  highly it's a it's a quartet that I [TS]

  value very highly and that I've read [TS]

  these books over and over and over again [TS]

  probably second to you know Little House [TS]

  on the Prairie or it'sit's just it's a [TS]

  weird sort of thing this book resonates [TS]

  to me in images almost rather than [TS]

  phrases although it's funny enough [TS]

  reading through hope Larson's graphic [TS]

  novel which is just beautiful and [TS]

  visualizes the characters in such a [TS]

  fantastic way without actually taking [TS]

  away from your own imagination of what [TS]

  it looks like and what what this is who [TS]

  and mrs. whatsit all look like when [TS]

  reading the graphic novel was I found it [TS]

  funny how many of those lines I actually [TS]

  could recall my heart even know I need [TS]

  to know if i if i SAT and picked up the [TS]

  book again i don't think i've read the [TS]

  book in 10 years now but there's so much [TS]

  of it that's laid so deep in my [TS]

  subconscious the sonnet lines are very [TS]

  funny to me because that that awards [TS]

  it's so weird it's that that is a faucet [TS]

  that's like an underlying philosophy [TS]

  from my life and I am [TS]

  always when i'm trying to coach or what [TS]

  I'm trying to what I was directing [TS]

  people i always use that sort of theorem [TS]

  with them being like all right well we [TS]

  have the text and we have very strict [TS]

  structures for things like commedia [TS]

  dell'arte and theatre mom but the whole [TS]

  beauty of structures like that is the [TS]

  freedom in which to play with them and [TS]

  for some reason wrinkle in time just [TS]

  broke that [TS]

  yeah and I didn't even connect it until [TS]

  you brought it up right now it's it's [TS]

  just it's funny it's very very funny and [TS]

  strange and magical so before we get me [TS]

  for further along here I wanted to at [TS]

  least give people who may not remember [TS]

  or haven't read it and the other still [TS]

  listening uh had an idea of what of what [TS]

  this what this book is about and it is [TS]

  fascinating one of the things you know [TS]

  it's kind of far out i mean it is his [TS]

  former book with a rainbow centre on the [TS]

  cover you would expect it but I as a as [TS]

  a kids book it's kind of a gentle and [TS]

  yet also eventually really bizarre story [TS]

  it's about a girl make Murray who is as [TS]

  has been mentioned here she's kind of an [TS]

  outcast she's her her arm [TS]

  she's from a family a very very [TS]

  intelligent family and she's intelligent [TS]

  but doesn't get along well with other [TS]

  people in school and she has trouble in [TS]

  school not because she's not smart but [TS]

  because she's actually very smart and [TS]

  kind of bored and kind of doesn't get [TS]

  along with people and she's got a little [TS]

  brother a very little brother who's kind [TS]

  of a genius a super genius and also [TS]

  everybody thinks it's stupid because [TS]

  he's different and then she's got twin [TS]

  brothers who are maybe not as who are [TS]

  bright and successful and socially adept [TS]

  but you know not necessarily as [TS]

  brilliant as these other two are her dad [TS]

  is missing who he works for the [TS]

  government and has gone off somewhere [TS]

  and they haven't seen him in ages and [TS]

  they they meet a through us you know she [TS]

  also i should say she whenever somebody [TS]

  at school insults her brother she [TS]

  punches come which is a nice touch [TS]

  so she gets in trouble and she goes to [TS]

  the principal and the principal asked [TS]

  her to conform and she basically says no [TS]

  I'm gonna do that and then what happens [TS]

  is that her brilliant little [TS]

  brother Charles Wallace says that he's [TS]

  been meeting this this this mysterious [TS]

  woman and they go out into the to this [TS]

  abandoned like haunted house basically [TS]

  like stereotypical haunted house meet me [TS]

  another kid from the school who's [TS]

  actually popular but it turns out is [TS]

  actually kind of faking you can get [TS]

  along with being popular but he's [TS]

  actually really bright and is sort of [TS]

  faking it to get to be popular and they [TS]

  discover that Charles Wallace has been [TS]

  having conversations with three [TS]

  mysterious women who are actually aliens [TS]

  or or even more cosmic creatures than [TS]

  that and that their father has actually [TS]

  used a wrinkle in time or a tesseract to [TS]

  travel across time and space to other [TS]

  planets where he is now being held [TS]

  captive in the in a universal battle of [TS]

  good versus evil and that that that [TS]

  downloads very quickly him at some point [TS]

  in the middle of this book and then [TS]

  they're off on an adventure that takes [TS]

  them to i'm going to say four or five [TS]

  other planets eventually and and they [TS]

  meet up with they meet up with a big [TS]

  pulsating brain monster on a planet and [TS]

  and Charles Wallace's is possessed and [TS]

  left behind and a rescue her dad and [TS]

  then she has to go back and save her [TS]

  brother and that's basically my plot [TS]

  synopsis of wrinkle in time did I'm it [TS]

  did I leave anything out i mean it's [TS]

  that it's not really about the plot but [TS]

  it's a quiz pretty crazy [TS]

  actually when you try but when you think [TS]

  about this the kids book and it seems to [TS]

  be going off with like a journey of [TS]

  self-discovery for memory and suddenly [TS]

  they're like it's so intelligently paste [TS]

  though because like you like you guys [TS]

  were saying earlier it takes forever to [TS]

  pick up speed since approximately first [TS]

  third of the book is laying down with [TS]

  the foundation the sense of place that [TS]

  memory children call home right [TS]

  the neat the the village in which [TS]

  they're clearly leave the outcast their [TS]

  their mother who is actually frankly [TS]

  managing to have it all because she's [TS]

  brilliant scientist who still cooks [TS]

  dinner on the Bunsen burners and is a [TS]

  single parent to for smart kids and [TS]

  holding it together and they're all [TS]

  these routines and rituals and she does [TS]

  this great job of flushing out this [TS]

  world where they need that the dog's [TS]

  name is Fortinbras [TS]

  and that that little detail tells you so [TS]

  much about the about the general tenor [TS]

  of the memory home where were clearly [TS]

  the ethos is keep up and she can't keep [TS]

  up take notes yeah that's it and and [TS]

  well kids because you know just like and [TS]

  we should just split board in the third [TS]

  book when they find a snake the neighbor [TS]

  columbia which is the latin which witch [TS]

  is which the latin term for snake no [TS]

  it's a joke is not funny it and so she [TS]

  built up this rich idiosyncratic world [TS]

  to give you the liverwurst and cream [TS]

  cheese sandwiches is comfort food which [TS]

  is a detail that is always baffled me [TS]

  because such a disgusting but what this [TS]

  does is if you're a kid when you when [TS]

  you are a little kid you are still [TS]

  intensely self-centered and intensely [TS]

  local and so if you're a small if you're [TS]

  if you're an elementary school who's [TS]

  reading this what she does here is she [TS]

  basically if she introduces the world at [TS]

  a pace that that children can grasp [TS]

  using a frame of reference that children [TS]

  will immediately warm too [TS]

  and then when she shifts gears and where [TS]

  your hip hopping across the galaxy and [TS]

  getting these big lessons about evil and [TS]

  incorruptibility and so on and so forth [TS]

  like the self-discovery a little kids [TS]

  not going to say that the self discovery [TS]

  goes hand-in-hand with the dramatic [TS]

  jumps and development but that's [TS]

  actually that that's a really uncanny [TS]

  parallel for what happens to children [TS]

  and adolescents and adulthood is that [TS]

  you kind of take along in your world in [TS]

  your world and then one day there's a [TS]

  big leap and things look different but [TS]

  it's still the same world and so I think [TS]

  this book is actually perfectly [TS]

  structured to mirror what happens to [TS]

  people through between the ages of like [TS]

  11 and 16 so so starting with the family [TS]

  and you made a really good point there [TS]

  Lee said this this book is a you know [TS]

  setting up this family that is proudly [TS]

  apart and different and and how and [TS]

  they're they're very different from the [TS]

  people who live all it almost to this [TS]

  kind of ridiculous extreme where where [TS]

  what is his name Cal Cal Cal his you [TS]

  know his mother has like no teeth [TS]

  it's Harper right right so it's like [TS]

  these are very different people from the [TS]

  town that their that they're living in [TS]

  common Kings yeah it and um and that's [TS]

  great [TS]

  on one level because they're brilliant [TS]

  and [TS]

  and have you know and mom is cooking [TS]

  stew out on a Bunsen burner while she's [TS]

  doing chemical experiments and things [TS]

  like that but it has a cost because it's [TS]

  cool [TS]

  conformity is actually what is being [TS]

  sought here and I i thought when i was [TS]

  reading it no one's reading at the [TS]

  beginning I was like oh no wonder i love [TS]

  this book this is but you know because [TS]

  because meg is having a hard time [TS]

  fitting in and you know gets really [TS]

  frustrated and I just I was like okay I [TS]

  totally identified with that but it's so [TS]

  that that's one aspect of this is that [TS]

  this really interesting thing about this [TS]

  is a very interesting brilliant family [TS]

  and they don't fit they don't end it [TS]

  doesn't matter necessarily accept to Meg [TS]

  and presumably eventually Charles [TS]

  Wallace because they don't they don't [TS]

  fit [TS]

  unlike the twins who just kinda slide [TS]

  along its kind of the twins peculiar [TS]

  genius though is is just like Megas an [TS]

  incredible mathematical genius and [TS]

  probably the one most in touch with [TS]

  humanity's darker emotions especially [TS]

  compared with Charles Wallace it was a [TS]

  really thinly veiled and walk to the [TS]

  christ-child Dennis and Sandy have [TS]

  managed to figure out how to pass for [TS]

  lack of a better word early on [TS]

  yes yeah and and they're they're very [TS]

  skilled at passing and I think I and and [TS]

  I've always felt like they kind of get [TS]

  short shrift in the first three books i [TS]

  haven't read the one in which they they [TS]

  start as it were but I've always felt [TS]

  they kind of get the short shrift [TS]

  because to grow up with the family that [TS]

  they had and then to make the deliberate [TS]

  decision that yes we're going to be good [TS]

  at sports [TS]

  we're going to manage to to straddle the [TS]

  line between these two cultures that we [TS]

  have to negotiate with at home and not [TS]

  home and then they go into medicine and [TS]

  law which are you know by virtue of the [TS]

  professions of this patina of [TS]

  respectability it's it's intriguing to [TS]

  that they pulled off that balancing act [TS]

  yeah I get one this book that they are [TS]

  they're not particularly really are on [TS]

  screen yeah many waters is actually the [TS]

  book i read the most after wrinkle and [TS]

  time in terms of that the quartet on and [TS]

  that's actually a really fascinating [TS]

  book it's a much more religious book in [TS]

  some ways than the other three are [TS]

  rather overtly religious because it [TS]

  deals with biblical times and it deals [TS]

  with very very noticeable biblical [TS]

  characters [TS]

  so you you know the initial jump into [TS]

  the story can sometimes turn people away [TS]

  because oh it's heavy heavily [TS]

  Christianity but their reactions and [TS]

  they're sort of working through the [TS]

  story of basically Noah and the flood [TS]

  gives them a really really interesting [TS]

  character background that you don't see [TS]

  any other three books so I I mean I i [TS]

  really liked that book even though I [TS]

  know it gets kind of unfair unfair [TS]

  shrift and it's um it was published a [TS]

  lot later than the other three because [TS]

  it was published in between her second [TS]

  set of quartets that star spoiler alert [TS]

  i usually make and Calvin's kid so I [TS]

  haven't actually read any of those but [TS]

  but many waters is quite good so when i [TS]

  was reading the here's what i did i read [TS]

  the graphic novel and then I went back [TS]

  and read the book again and when i was [TS]

  reading the graphic novel i was thinking [TS]

  of myself [TS]

  was it was it this weird and the answer [TS]

  is yeah it was uh I found that out but [TS]

  one of the things that's one of the [TS]

  things that I thought was was did [TS]

  obviously as a kid I kind of missed the [TS]

  or didn't notice or didn't you know just [TS]

  didn't read on me both the there's a [TS]

  religious aspect of this that we need to [TS]

  talk about and there's also this kind of [TS]

  you know this individualism message [TS]

  where I was thought oh is this kind of [TS]

  it's going to turn out to be some sort [TS]

  of like coated and randiyan thing that I [TS]

  didn't realize was an awful when I was a [TS]

  kid and now i owe my god and it's not [TS]

  but um but it is about there's this [TS]

  whole thing about individualism in here [TS]

  in it and you see that the beginning and [TS]

  at the end and it's a strong thread [TS]

  throughout but before we get there I do [TS]

  want to talk about religion and get your [TS]

  guys take on it because Lisa and ran [TS]

  both mentioned it and David mentioned [TS]

  that his mom was a theologian so we're [TS]

  going to get into it i'm not a [TS]

  particularly ritual religious person all [TS]

  the way to go to Sunday School and so I [TS]

  had a background in that when i was a [TS]

  kid reading this for the first time [TS]

  what struck me about the religion in a [TS]

  wrinkle in time is that it's mentioned [TS]

  but it's not it's not that over its more [TS]

  i I'd almost say it's almost more like [TS]

  the wallpaper of religion that it's it's [TS]

  just a thing that's part of the world [TS]

  and not you know I hate to say it but [TS]

  these days you get this this real [TS]

  push-and-pull whether it's either real [TS]

  religious propaganda or it isn't [TS]

  it's either about science or it's about [TS]

  religion it's about heart or it's about [TS]

  religion but everything is pitted [TS]

  against each other that literally you [TS]

  can't have something if something's got [TS]

  religion in it generally the feeling [TS]

  today is that that's that's because its [TS]

  propaganda and in many cases that's [TS]

  because it is propaganda and this struck [TS]

  me as being something that like there's [TS]

  that great scene where they they ask [TS]

  about this they say there's a struggle [TS]

  between you know darkness and light [TS]

  which is just as easily star wars as it [TS]

  is the Bible but they say now who do you [TS]

  think are the people who fought for for [TS]

  light and one of the kids says Jesus [TS]

  like yes and I said but also and they [TS]

  list off a bunch of artists and [TS]

  scientists and i thought now see that's [TS]

  really interesting because it's not it's [TS]

  not uh you know hey hey kids i'm [TS]

  enlisting you in the cause of good be [TS]

  like Jesus see you know he's fighting on [TS]

  the side it's like know it's him and and [TS]

  Leonardo Leonardo DaVinci internet and [TS]

  Shakespeare and Einstein right 10 and so [TS]

  I thought that was really interesting [TS]

  there there's another Bible verse that [TS]

  big needs to remember later on and I [TS]

  mean it's definitely there and and the [TS]

  the the alien horse people [TS]

  rainbow people are kind of angels and [TS]

  are referred to as such by cal at one [TS]

  point but it's not like they're angels [TS]

  it's more like how do I describe them to [TS]

  you [TS]

  I can't really think of it like guardian [TS]

  angels they're kind of like that right [TS]

  it's not it just it managed to use [TS]

  religious imagery and talk about [TS]

  religion as it was part of the world [TS]

  without seeming like it was super coded [TS]

  propaganda least that's how I read it [TS]

  when I reread it kind of being wary [TS]

  about what I was going to find inside [TS]

  yeah it's almost like a step forward [TS]

  from CS lewis's narnia books in a way [TS]

  because good [TS]

  it's a it's a it's in a weird you know i [TS]

  will and that's an example where the [TS]

  Narnia books are actually I think [TS]

  much better coding for religious [TS]

  parables than the his sci-fi books which [TS]

  are much more heavy-handed i think but [TS]

  yeah well no I mean Narnia Narnia is [TS]

  very heavy-handed but in a wonderfully [TS]

  lyrical sort of way where it's never you [TS]

  know it's never so overt that anyone [TS]

  under the age of 12 is going to catch on [TS]

  whereas wrinkle in time and its [TS]

  successors are very much yes religious [TS]

  religion is in this world religion is [TS]

  part of this world religion influences [TS]

  what is going on my religion is not the [TS]

  end-all be-all and religion works in [TS]

  concert with these other you know with [TS]

  science and with art and their-their can [TS]

  get theirs and almost makes an argument [TS]

  that there can be no religion without [TS]

  science and art and that they all they [TS]

  all must work together or else the [TS]

  entire fabric of the universe falls [TS]

  apart and you kind of get a little bit [TS]

  of that with it in terms of you know [TS]

  where we've taken away everything for [TS]

  vast structure and in this structure [TS]

  there's no real religion there's no real [TS]

  art there's no real science it's just [TS]

  everybody you know under this grip not [TS]

  want to individual orders without [TS]

  without creativity its exact specifics [TS]

  on it right yeah the the point that [TS]

  Jason makes about you know Jesus as [TS]

  somebody who changed the universe for [TS]

  the better but scientists do an artist [TS]

  do as well I group is a Catholic in the [TS]

  bible belt and I grew up in fact in the [TS]

  neighborhood with a Southern Baptist [TS]

  mom's managed to make the case to my [TS]

  parents that I should be sent to [TS]

  southern baptist bible school during the [TS]

  summer so I so my soul can be saved so [TS]

  hopefully some nice well it you know [TS]

  it's it [TS]

  welcome to the Bible Belt working [TS]

  himself and so to 10 of again to have [TS]

  the idea that there was more than one [TS]

  way to be a good person in the world and [TS]

  to do good towards the world that was an [TS]

  idea that i needed to have expressed to [TS]

  me and legitimate ways as a child and [TS]

  this book is a wonderful job of doing [TS]

  that I do wonder if it's more of a [TS]

  product of its time because it was [TS]

  written during the early 1960s where [TS]

  religion wasn't seen so much as an us [TS]

  versus them thing is nice today [TS]

  exactly I'm [TS]

  it's much more gentle it whereas if you [TS]

  take a look at some of our older works [TS]

  for example i'm also a fan of her meet [TS]

  the Austen's books and those are far [TS]

  more overtly religious and far more far [TS]

  more adamantly christian and i have [TS]

  noticed that as writers get older they [TS]

  do tend to sink into whatever is going [TS]

  to give them comfort and validation and [TS]

  it seems like the angle kind of did that [TS]

  with her work whereas I think this is [TS]

  one of the second book she wrote and so [TS]

  she's still figure she's still finding [TS]

  her way as a voice and she synthesized [TS]

  most four major themes but this is much [TS]

  more product if it's if it's time in the [TS]

  sixties which is there are a lot of [TS]

  different ways to create miracles and [TS]

  wonders Jesus crisis when we're doing it [TS]

  scientists who can help us find the [TS]

  truth about the University another way [TS]

  artists that can help us express that [TS]

  truth about the universe or another way [TS]

  philanthropist who can help us express [TS]

  kindness in the universe or another way [TS]

  and I wish that was an idea that was [TS]

  more and play now [TS]

  yeah yeah because you get a lot of [TS]

  science fiction now and a lot of what's [TS]

  coming out in the last 10 to 15 years in [TS]

  popular science fiction religions become [TS]

  the big bad bulky man in a lot of books [TS]

  and then of course in in so much [TS]

  religious discussion neuroscience is the [TS]

  enemy exactly right and and night [TS]

  neither of those necessarily is a you [TS]

  know me I'm always looking for a [TS]

  moderate path the the neither of those [TS]

  is particularly constructive and you [TS]

  know not to get on a night together [TS]

  totally bizarre chain tangent now the [TS]

  episode about this soon but you know [TS]

  Babylon 5 one of the TV show from the [TS]

  nineties that I really loved written by [TS]

  an 80s Joe michael Straczynski has [TS]

  extraordinary nuanced takes on religion [TS]

  and how it shapes people's lives and [TS]

  ethics it's fantastic i believe won an [TS]

  award for the portrayal of religion on [TS]

  television it was like we can portray a [TS]

  future where they're aliens and people [TS]

  are in outer space and people guess what [TS]

  still have religions because that's [TS]

  going to happen because you know those [TS]

  aren't going to just disappear one day [TS]

  despite what gene roddenberry thanks [TS]

  soho I and I always so that was [TS]

  refreshing and I i think it's too bad it [TS]

  knowing that that these books become [TS]

  more overtly religious over time it's [TS]

  like ice [TS]

  I really appreciated the fact that the [TS]

  in this book it's part of the mix and [TS]

  it's relevant and it's and it's it you [TS]

  know it's it's got some cultural [TS]

  signifiers to it's like it [TS]

  of course you know these verses from the [TS]

  Bible because people know those things [TS]

  and then it's also got the the you know [TS]

  the fact is we're talking about a [TS]

  struggle between good and evil here [TS]

  universal struggle between good and evil [TS]

  and it's kind of interesting to frame [TS]

  that you know bigger context of the [TS]

  universe with the smaller context of [TS]

  what people on earth know about about [TS]

  that struggle through their religion i [TS]

  just i love i love the fact that that it [TS]

  just puts it all out there in 11 big one [TS]

  big mix instead of saying no no we can't [TS]

  talk about that we don't know we can [TS]

  don't mention Jesus we can talk about [TS]

  him or information science we can't talk [TS]

  about it is that since both they're both [TS]

  infuriated was like when when I was [TS]

  little my mom would ask you know what [TS]

  religion do you think the memories are [TS]

  and I I never had a good answer for it [TS]

  because i mean if if they are any [TS]

  religion in particular their christian [TS]

  because there you go through talking [TS]

  about the Bible they're talking about [TS]

  the quotes from the Bible and guardian [TS]

  angels and all that kind of thing but [TS]

  she doesn't really specify she doesn't [TS]

  go beyond that and I kind of like that [TS]

  so that you know if you grew up catholic [TS]

  regroup Episcopalian regroup you know [TS]

  whatever variety you could identify with [TS]

  them and maybe more so at in the period [TS]

  of you know when it was written but you [TS]

  know you you could see yourself in their [TS]

  situation a little bit maybe just [TS]

  because yet garden I was viewed as sort [TS]

  of garden-variety mid-twentieth century [TS]

  American religion right American [TS]

  Protestantism right yeah exactly exactly [TS]

  and they were you know it's like sure [TS]

  people know about that and maybe they [TS]

  only go to church on easter sunday or [TS]

  maybe the they don't go to church very [TS]

  much but they send their kids to Sunday [TS]

  School which is what happened with me my [TS]

  parents go to church but I went to [TS]

  Sunday school for a while I don't get [TS]

  that but that was what that was what it [TS]

  was and and sang in the choir [TS]

  ok mother wouldn't let me go to Sunday [TS]

  school or Catholic school because she [TS]

  was like that will destroy your faith I [TS]

  went ok [TS]

  oh yeah oh oh no nothing yeah and that's [TS]

  tapping religion with a bunch of errands [TS]

  here [TS]

  probable that was thinking that they're [TS]

  probably Unitarian that was my guess [TS]

  yeah sure whatever scientist also what I [TS]

  love about this book is all the cultural [TS]

  signifiers that she does drop later as [TS]

  you're going through school and you [TS]

  finally doing camera handling the wild [TS]

  for the first time in the name and [TS]

  Fortinbras comes up boom the penny drops [TS]

  for you because you know that's why in [TS]

  the dark Orton browser or something and [TS]

  similar to god I can't even think of [TS]

  half the culture half of the cultural [TS]

  name-checks that go on that the dog's [TS]

  name is always stood out for me just [TS]

  because you know who in the world names [TS]

  their dog for well some really you know [TS]

  I iconoclastic scientist types with [TS]

  their bohemian ways in their lab in the [TS]

  back bedroom and they're they're in the [TS]

  garage or whatever it is and I don't [TS]

  know is that is that almost like a [TS]

  fantasy view of like the ultimate super [TS]

  cool science family he's weirdly [TS]

  optimistic outlook surprise and again [TS]

  i'm kind of surprised people came out 62 [TS]

  because it creates Betty Ford an and it [TS]

  also goes to show that Madeleine L'Engle [TS]

  had no exposure to actual working [TS]

  scientists because yeah well be okay [TS]

  first of all and i say this is somebody [TS]

  who spent all four years of her [TS]

  undergrad firing up a Bunsen burner [TS]

  everyday for different class for it in [TS]

  different labs um if you're doing the [TS]

  type of science mrs. Morrow was doing [TS]

  the kind of equipment you need you can't [TS]

  just you know go down to your local [TS]

  hardware store and and then oh and it [TS]

  and jerry rig that together be her [TS]

  husband's equipment that he got from the [TS]

  government but it's still a physicist [TS]

  she's a bio yeah it was no your eyes for [TS]

  mitochondrial right it's real oh yes [TS]

  with the mitochondria I do i do remember [TS]

  that yes you know it's it's basically [TS]

  this fantasy and i also wonder how much [TS]

  of that is Lange goals [TS]

  it is a product of her time were so it's [TS]

  ok for mrs. murder have a new identity [TS]

  that fulfills her but the important [TS]

  things that she's still running the home [TS]

  however idiosyncratically and she still [TS]

  cooks you're still making ironically [TS]

  enough even she's making dinner and in [TS]

  three actually puts on a burner cook [TS]

  book based on because when I got to [TS]

  college that was one of the first things [TS]

  i asked my team was do you guys ever [TS]

  cook on Bunsen burners I grew up reading [TS]

  this book where they always cooked on [TS]

  Bunsen burners and he's like [TS]

  no but we can try and so we did [TS]

  that's yeah you know it is it is funny [TS]

  that her out there with her things [TS]

  because it is sort of like honey I'm [TS]

  doing science out here like this not [TS]

  what do you what kind of science you're [TS]

  doing scientific kind involving burners [TS]

  what has science done either science [TS]

  alright also making stew yes [TS]

  try not to mix up my stew with my [TS]

  science my liverwurst and cream cheese [TS]

  sandwiches all my god [TS]

  any other thoughts you guys have about [TS]

  their religious aspects of it i mean it [TS]

  is intertwined with this whole thread [TS]

  about individualism that we see early on [TS]

  with a with a megan Charles Wallace sort [TS]

  of being ostracized and trying to assert [TS]

  their you know be yourself and be proud [TS]

  of who you are which has a you know it's [TS]

  a big thing that I I loved in this book [TS]

  because that was definitely it something [TS]

  that I felt in in my childhood and then [TS]

  at the end when they go to Camazotz and [TS]

  they've got the this entire society [TS]

  that's basically been turned into a [TS]

  hivemind a group mind with this thing [TS]

  called it which is it turns out just as [TS]

  described in the book and depicted in [TS]

  the graphic novel a big squishy brain on [TS]

  the table but it's representative of the [TS]

  the group mind and it's a disembodied [TS]

  brain there it's yeah well right well [TS]

  don't know what it is it's a red it's a [TS]

  red brain in with the right then so [TS]

  there's that so that's the flip side of [TS]

  it is the is the this is a place where [TS]

  everybody conforms and everybody is [TS]

  exactly the same and it's individualism [TS]

  like i said i had that moment like it's [TS]

  gonna get really weird and I'm gonna [TS]

  tell you about you know about communism [TS]

  or in the rugged individualism or [TS]

  anything like that it never gets that I [TS]

  mean there is a pulsating bring on the [TS]

  table and yet I wouldn't say it gets [TS]

  super weird just sort of base level [TS]

  weird and it fits in with those other [TS]

  themes of individualism that don't [TS]

  aren't necessarily like in in soviet [TS]

  russia brilliant girl dollar of [TS]

  scientists will sit at her desk right [TS]

  it's not like that's what not what [TS]

  they're trying to the subject Hassan's [TS]

  ball bounce you [TS]

  oh yeah yes the poor kid who wants to [TS]

  bounce this ball and his torture [TS]

  horribly formats [TS]

  it's kind of rough do ya got a brutal i [TS]

  think the book as a whole pushes buttons [TS]

  on a lot of issues but it never goes you [TS]

  know it pushes it about halfway and then [TS]

  takes the handoff the thing the the [TS]

  button and put your hand on it and says [TS]

  okay how do you feel about this [TS]

  mhm and it back it puts a lot of the big [TS]

  questions and a lot of the thoughts [TS]

  regarding it and regarding religion and [TS]

  regarding how science flavors the book [TS]

  into the readers hands or at least it [TS]

  feels like that to me if you're right [TS]

  I'm I like it [TS]

  she has extraordinary respect for her [TS]

  readers intelligence that one hmm [TS]

  and when your child that's what you want [TS]

  is for for an author not to talk down to [TS]

  you when one of the things i found [TS]

  really interesting this time through was [TS]

  that you know again going back to the [TS]

  religion a little bit is that it's the [TS]

  place where everybody knows and believes [TS]

  the same thing and does the same thing [TS]

  and acts the same way and that's what's [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  it's like wow that's really interesting [TS]

  the pulsating brain is is it's so so [TS]

  hopeful our son does this graphic novel [TS]

  have you all look at the graphic novel [TS]

  oh yeah i bought it and granted ok you [TS]

  know I i really liked it i really [TS]

  enjoyed reading it having only vague [TS]

  memories of the book too because I got [TS]

  to play the game of like is this real [TS]

  it was really like this and then reading [TS]

  a book and 10 yeah it's it's it's so [TS]

  amazingly faithful and it helps that the [TS]

  original novel is like 200 pages long [TS]

  and the paperback that I've gotten [TS]

  that's what kind of like some spacing [TS]

  and big type and so it turns to this [TS]

  graphic novel that is so faithful in [TS]

  some ways because it's you know it's 390 [TS]

  pages but mostly you know that [TS]

  essentially all the dialogue that's in [TS]

  the book is in the graphic novel and and [TS]

  even stuff like the pulsating brain on a [TS]

  table that's actually what is in the [TS]

  book there is it is a big quivering [TS]

  bring the Communist thank you Lisa brain [TS]

  mhm yes yes but I i was really impressed [TS]

  i i i know the fear of a lot of people [TS]

  in [TS]

  in taking something that's a beloved [TS]

  childhood book and doing an adaptation [TS]

  like this is that you're gonna overwrite [TS]

  your memories of your sort of mental [TS]

  images and for whatever reason you know [TS]

  when i read it the stuff that i [TS]

  remembered from reading the book i was [TS]

  just nodding and going yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  that's about right [TS]

  yeah our style is so unique in a way [TS]

  that it it let's get it on ments your [TS]

  your viewing experience I said that [TS]

  earlier in the podcast but reading [TS]

  through the graphic novel the way that [TS]

  she illustrates and the way that she [TS]

  carries you through the story is almost [TS]

  a little bit dreamlike like all of her I [TS]

  her brush drive i'm going really [TS]

  technically r know the way that she [TS]

  illustrated this book is very freeform [TS]

  and very flowing and in a certain way it [TS]

  feels very dreamlike and it feel it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't overwrite the [TS]

  memories that I have of the book and it [TS]

  doesn't overwrite this the way I picture [TS]

  characters in the way that i picture you [TS]

  know be supreme beings and and aliens [TS]

  and planets but it's a wonderful it's [TS]

  almost like a viewing portal into the [TS]

  here is this universe of a wrinkle in [TS]

  time here is how this person sees a [TS]

  wrinkle in time and like the book you [TS]

  can find places where you go oh yeah [TS]

  like this is totally what I saw or this [TS]

  is different than what I saw but still [TS]

  not wrong it's you know it's traveling [TS]

  different timelines i have never seen [TS]

  such a painfully accurate depiction of [TS]

  adolescence as what the way make [TS]

  memories is is drawn through this entire [TS]

  book every line in every frame that [TS]

  she's in you can just feel the the [TS]

  jangling of her nerves and the ruling of [TS]

  her emotions and the confusion and fear [TS]

  and uncertainty and the whole book to me [TS]

  has that same feel to it which i think [TS]

  is perfect for the underlying message [TS]

  and that the heroines journey as it were [TS]

  you know it's funny the in reading the [TS]

  book especially when your kid reading [TS]

  the book you're not really sure about [TS]

  the ages and and it for me it was harder [TS]

  to picture them and and reading in the [TS]

  graphic novel what one thing I really [TS]

  liked about this not only is it very [TS]

  clear sort of like the age differences [TS]

  and [TS]

  you said she's that you know she is a [TS]

  age you know just in adolescence [TS]

  yeah but what I love about it is in the [TS]

  book it describes her [TS]

  well it's not just description it's her [TS]

  interaction with her mother where her [TS]

  mother they say oh you know her mother [TS]

  is beautiful and I and you know where as [TS]

  Megan's plain awful and her mom says [TS]

  something like no no that I would i look [TS]

  like you did when I was your age and and [TS]

  you should you know just just wait and [TS]

  it's tough [TS]

  adolescence is tough and all your all [TS]

  your parts of your body and your face [TS]

  are growing at different rates and it's [TS]

  all out of sync but it will all work out [TS]

  and one of the nice things about the way [TS]

  that hope larson draws Meg in this book [TS]

  is that at times she looks incredibly [TS]

  awkward and adolescent yes and then at [TS]

  other times you're like oh yeah i can i [TS]

  can see she's gonna she's going to be [TS]

  beautiful like her mother growing and [TS]

  she's just not you know it's just kind [TS]

  of here and there and shifting around [TS]

  which is exactly what it's like [TS]

  yeah well this is really nice passage in [TS]

  the book itself where they talk about [TS]

  you know Meg had tried to blow off some [TS]

  steam at recess by roughhousing and the [TS]

  girls in her greater like we don't do [TS]

  that anymore because we are no longer [TS]

  children and then a few paragraphs later [TS]

  it mentions that when her hair was still [TS]

  in the braids that she had worn through [TS]

  grammar school it was fine but now that [TS]

  she had cut it to fit in with the rest [TS]

  of high school kids she could never get [TS]

  her hair right and struck out all over [TS]

  the place and it was just such a perfect [TS]

  metaphor for she was good at being a [TS]

  child because she didn't carry them [TS]

  about how different she was but she's [TS]

  terrible being an adolescent because [TS]

  nothing fits and the art is exquisite [TS]

  and what the way all of the pickles with [TS]

  me and maker drawn you just feel very [TS]

  conscious of somebody who goes from [TS]

  place to place not feeling like she [TS]

  quite fits she quits in and how she's [TS]

  going to deal with that I don't find [TS]

  them [TS]

  I didn't find the book particularly [TS]

  beautiful Armour first read-through [TS]

  because it was making me feel antsy [TS]

  uncomfortable it wasn't until I figured [TS]

  out that the book was doing a really [TS]

  good job of channeling of a creative [TS]

  visual representation of adolescents [TS]

  once I figure out that's why and I'm on [TS]

  edge i could sink into a little bit more [TS]

  and step back from a bit and and begin [TS]

  to appreciate the ways in which i mean [TS]

  Larson's got beautiful command over the [TS]

  way she could she yeah she draws people [TS]

  especially [TS]

  the the graceful lines of their hands of [TS]

  the way that they hold themselves in [TS]

  relation to other people but it took me [TS]

  a couple tries to to get through it [TS]

  that's what one of her thankless task is [TS]

  that she also has to render the the [TS]

  aliens the teachers and that's you know [TS]

  that's where your you know your [TS]

  imagination is pitted against reality as [TS]

  you can you know it turns out that you [TS]

  know hope larson is going after going [TS]

  off of the very specific descriptions in [TS]

  the book but you know as a reader you [TS]

  can discard and what whatever you don't [TS]

  want to take and imagine whoever you [TS]

  like and she needs to be a little more [TS]

  faithful and I thought you know they're [TS]

  there are moments like with the and [TS]

  beast [TS]

  I've always sort of a piece more as a [TS]

  collection of lame smells weird to see [TS]

  are depicted physically but it is [TS]

  accurate that it's these weird kind of [TS]

  like multi-armed multi fingered [TS]

  creatures with like indentations in [TS]

  their heads but not actual it was [TS]

  interesting and weird but i think [TS]

  faithful it turns out the one the one [TS]

  that really gets me is again we're back [TS]

  to our our Center rainbow angel people [TS]

  and that one is really bizarre but it's [TS]

  also completely accurate that that [TS]

  that's the way it's described it's just [TS]

  kind of funny that that is weirder in [TS]

  the graphic novel fit in the book [TS]

  because you just have to accept that [TS]

  yes but it is going to be a big centaur [TS]

  rainbow person and but it's beautiful [TS]

  it's well done [TS]

  it's just weird and it just struck me [TS]

  that that you know what what you can [TS]

  just discount when you're as a reader [TS]

  you're like me i don't like that i'm not [TS]

  going to even think about that i'm gonna [TS]

  cast somebody else in that part and the [TS]

  graphic novel hope Larson's doing the [TS]

  casting and we have to follow and she [TS]

  did a great job but it you know she you [TS]

  know she she has to make those creative [TS]

  decisions we get basically taking metal [TS]

  ingles cues [TS]

  oh yeah absolutely one of the things I [TS]

  loved was you know I i I'd come and [TS]

  looking at how would I adapt it because [TS]

  I've done that [TS]

  yeah and you know it's it's really [TS]

  interesting how even in the very [TS]

  beginning she she doesn't do exactly the [TS]

  same opening all the details are there [TS]

  but she entered cuts them and weaves [TS]

  them together differently [TS]

  and does it very economically it's it's [TS]

  very much a show don't tell kind of [TS]

  thing and so in just a few panels we [TS]

  have almost that entire first chapter [TS]

  and it's all there and it's a slightly [TS]

  different order and and going through [TS]

  the whole graphic novel then it's like a [TS]

  great i was just fascinated by the [TS]

  choices she was making in what to show [TS]

  when and in which order and and how it [TS]

  worked i'm a huge amount of care [TS]

  yeah okay taken with it because i mean [TS]

  it's it's been adapted into a play and [TS]

  an opera and a miniseries that was [TS]

  turned into a bad movie because it was [TS]

  apparently a bad miniseries and at the [TS]

  time [TS]

  Madeleine L'Engle was interviewed and [TS]

  they stay asked her did it meet your [TS]

  expectations and she said yes I expected [TS]

  it to be bad and it was no disney i will [TS]

  i've never watched any of the adaptation [TS]

  and don't think I don't think I ever [TS]

  will [TS]

  there's only one good wrinkle in time [TS]

  adaptation it is 90 seconds long and it [TS]

  was made I think last year the year [TS]

  before [TS]

  I'm as part of the 92nd newbury video [TS]

  contest and it is it's basically a bunch [TS]

  of child just a bunch of kids who seem [TS]

  to be part of the same family acting out [TS]

  wrinkle in time and very sweet fashion [TS]

  and it's beautiful 3 l's passed I passed [TS]

  down all right kids let's go to the [TS]

  Lincoln yeah I I admit David that i was [TS]

  i was reading the book after having read [TS]

  the graphic novel i went back to the [TS]

  book and I was thinking how would you [TS]

  make this into a into a TV series camera [TS]

  or a TV movie or a movie and and you [TS]

  know i think it could it could be done [TS]

  and done well but i wouldn't lay odds on [TS]

  it right about i think it could I think [TS]

  it clearly doesn't animated one travel [TS]

  more [TS]

  well yeah I mean you could you could [TS]

  absolutely do that but i was thinking [TS]

  about lifestyle you know it's not [TS]

  unreasonable that the-the-the there are [TS]

  some the aliens are a little bit weird [TS]

  but these days you can you can kind of [TS]

  do anything but so much of it is about [TS]

  about the kids and when they get to [TS]

  Camazotz it's just a town you know [TS]

  was not that is something about this [TS]

  that's a sci-fi reader that's convenient [TS]

  everybody speaks everybody understands [TS]

  everybody else you know the the go to [TS]

  this far-off planet of Camazotz and it's [TS]

  it's just a town on a planet like you [TS]

  know presumably they have onions kid [TS]

  with bouncing a ball i mean they're not [TS]

  there they're people right there not [TS]

  aliens or anything or just kind of other [TS]

  people so you know it's it's it's outer [TS]

  space achill when it needs to be and it [TS]

  was the Southern California suburb and [TS]

  it's just a parable women needs to be [TS]

  you know that which is fine i don't mind [TS]

  it's it's actually kind of fun i was i I [TS]

  actually was thinking about Doctor Who [TS]

  for a little bit while I was reading [TS]

  this because it struck me as being very [TS]

  similar in the sense to creations from [TS]

  the early sixties in the sense that that [TS]

  the the details with scientific details [TS]

  of it weren't really the point and so [TS]

  they didn't matter right and that it was [TS]

  really about the the gestalt of the you [TS]

  know it's just sort of like look at [TS]

  story make a go of it it doesn't stop [TS]

  don't stop to ask me about why this town [TS]

  has been this planet have humans on it [TS]

  when the other places have aliens just [TS]

  it's need no it's not the point of the [TS]

  story and I felt like that with this to [TS]

  which I like I know it drives some [TS]

  particular kinds of sci-fi fans crazy [TS]

  because they really want it to be like [TS]

  completely scientifically explainable [TS]

  and accurate and all that but it's you [TS]

  know it's it's not it's not meant to be [TS]

  and I was fine with it but I had that [TS]

  moment of like sure there are rainbow [TS]

  centaurs ok let's sure there's the smell [TS]

  they hit the furry smell people who [TS]

  can't see anything [TS]

  alright that's cool right now I don't [TS]

  need to think about how they evolved to [TS]

  that I just it's fine and actually i [TS]

  really love that we didn't mention that [TS]

  but a beast and her people they can't [TS]

  see so make has to try to explain what [TS]

  light is to them which is fascinating [TS]

  like oh well there's the warm part of [TS]

  the day and there's the cold part of the [TS]

  day but I don't know what you're talking [TS]

  about light and she had that realization [TS]

  like wow they I thought they were really [TS]

  sad because they can't see anything but [TS]

  they've totally got like five or six [TS]

  more senses than I have and I'm [TS]

  completely clueless to them and I [TS]

  thought that was a really nice bit of of [TS]

  thinking outside of of of your own [TS]

  person [TS]

  your own perspective that for a kids [TS]

  book is really great again about the [TS]

  different point of view [TS]

  yeah and it comes towards the very end [TS]

  of the book worm eggs already been [TS]

  forced to confront the fact that [TS]

  different people have different points [TS]

  of view that are equally valid and by [TS]

  not understand by not trying to [TS]

  understand she's making them so much of [TS]

  an outsider's the people who insist on [TS]

  making her an outsider right if I were [TS]

  adapting this i think i might take out [TS]

  the happy medium though I really don't [TS]

  know why that is [TS]

  that's a Daffy interlude you know I me [TS]

  give you a little bit of backstory oh [TS]

  you were a star you give up your life [TS]

  100 earth is awful and and but but but [TS]

  you know Calvin's mom abuses and but you [TS]

  know they're there but it's like it's [TS]

  weird it's weird let's go to happy [TS]

  medium she's got a crystal ball she's [TS]

  gonna tell us about our past and our [TS]

  future she passes out and then oh I'm [TS]

  really tired from watching you from [TS]

  showing these things to go well actually [TS]

  let's go Calvin O'Keefe for a minute [TS]

  they really go over the course of the [TS]

  first three books because again the the [TS]

  ones that I think most of us and [TS]

  Generation X read you know we've [TS]

  established that his home life is not [TS]

  great his father drinks way too much hit [TS]

  it beats the kids his mother beats the [TS]

  kids he somehow manages to emerge from [TS]

  this completely unscathed [TS]

  despite these horrific details that come [TS]

  out in subsequent books where where we [TS]

  find out that basically his mother had [TS]

  to marry the first man who came along [TS]

  because her stepfather was um was [TS]

  getting ready to to sexually assault her [TS]

  and and yet albums that is incredibly [TS]

  well adjusted incredibly even-tempered [TS]

  genius guy who handles and really [TS]

  handles and really girlfriend wife does [TS]

  that I I've always had really mixed [TS]

  feelings because it seems i'm not sure [TS]

  if this isn't meant to be empowering 22 [TS]

  fell to children who are growing up in [TS]

  similarly similarly dire situation [TS]

  saying you know relax your special you [TS]

  can get through this or if this is just [TS]

  incredibly dismissive of how hard it is [TS]

  to grow up under those circumstances [TS]

  mmm and as i get older i find it more [TS]

  and more problematic huh i don't know i [TS]

  mean knowing the people that I do have [TS]

  come from similar households i would say [TS]

  that especially being the eldest [TS]

  in that kind of a household you do build [TS]

  up a certain i'd only want to say [TS]

  tolerance a certain you you have to grow [TS]

  up very quickly and you have to be very [TS]

  much the the person in charge and the [TS]

  person who has their stuff together [TS]

  because no one else does and I i see a [TS]

  lot of that in Calvin but yeah I mean I [TS]

  think you're absolutely right in terms [TS]

  of that's that is only one picture of [TS]

  that kind of scenario in but in this in [TS]

  this book I feel like a you know [TS]

  Calvin's role is I mean it's kind of [TS]

  interesting because they just kind of [TS]

  run into him but I i feel like i mean [TS]

  he's there to be part of the gang and to [TS]

  be supportive and to be a love interest [TS]

  you know it promise of a love interest [TS]

  for Meg but i think is number one role [TS]

  is to be like sort of like the twins but [TS]

  but in that he's socially capable but [TS]

  not like the twins and that we see with [TS]

  him on and and they don't get to show [TS]

  this in this book that that he really [TS]

  does your inform or and that him being [TS]

  popular is actually kind of a prison for [TS]

  him and I feel like that's like the [TS]

  really hit the own not the only the most [TS]

  by far the most important thing that he [TS]

  does in this book is just to be kind of [TS]

  like a connection for Meg of you know [TS]

  he's like her [TS]

  the end just because he's popular [TS]

  doesn't mean he's happy and doesn't mean [TS]

  that you know he is secretly frankel [TS]

  yeah yeah just another another color in [TS]

  the in the in the palette of freakiness [TS]

  well he's a grounding force in some ways [TS]

  and then make becomes his grounding [TS]

  force in terms of where they're holding [TS]

  learning have their tests are acting [TS]

  here when it you know going back to the [TS]

  the thought of how much set up there is [TS]

  it's also you know you sort of build [TS]

  this sense of comfort with the [TS]

  characters and with their lives so that [TS]

  when they're ripped out of it and thrown [TS]

  across the universe and everything it's [TS]

  that much more dramatic because we've [TS]

  we've gotten used to their family life [TS]

  now too [TS]

  that's why i love the first half of this [TS]

  book it and i wouldn't complain about [TS]

  the fact that it the the plot is crammed [TS]

  into [TS]

  like four chapters at the end in many [TS]

  ways I mean in many ways it really is [TS]

  it's like really they're going to [TS]

  they're going to the planet now and at [TS]

  last couple chapters like wow they're [TS]

  going to result how are they going to [TS]

  resolve this may do mr. Murray finally [TS]

  gets ripped free and her was reunited [TS]

  there's like three pages in their back [TS]

  on their hillside behind the house y'all [TS]

  well that's kinda gruff yeah but I don't [TS]

  mind it because that the the first half [TS]

  is so great and memorable and that the [TS]

  scene setting I mean it is very [TS]

  important it all pays off later but it's [TS]

  very important to to get that it's [TS]

  really enjoyable too i mean i really [TS]

  enjoyed the length of time spent on the [TS]

  midnight snack during the hurricane [TS]

  yeah is ridiculous and it's great right [TS]

  it's incredible detail Charles Wallace's [TS]

  down their makers downstairs he's [TS]

  waiting for her she figured he'd come [TS]

  upstairs but he's like no I knew you'd [TS]

  come down [TS]

  he's got the liverwurst and cream cheese [TS]

  sandwiches and the mom comes out and [TS]

  he's ready for her and you know it [TS]

  incredible detail they're totally not [TS]

  necessary accepted paints that wonderful [TS]

  picture of their relationships and where [TS]

  there you know how they all interrelated [TS]

  to each other in this family and and [TS]

  that's for me that stuff was actually [TS]

  the most memorable 20 30 40 years later [TS]

  was that stuff and not not the pulsating [TS]

  brain on a table which I didn't remember [TS]

  it all the kid with the ball i [TS]

  remembered that kid but I wanted to [TS]

  publish those cameras ads for a book or [TS]

  book contest and so I've always wrong [TS]

  with that big being protective of [TS]

  Charles Wallace is something that I get [TS]

  stuck with me all that time she was the [TS]

  big sister who's going to get in fights [TS]

  with other kids who said mean things [TS]

  about her little brother that bubbles [TS]

  now as an adult [TS]

  it made sense to me because I I being [TS]

  more than a few kids who picked on my [TS]

  brother because i was his older sister [TS]

  and and it was but it was my job to [TS]

  Kellerman losses but I I went back and I [TS]

  realized there's like a 10-year age [TS]

  difference into them and I thought what [TS]

  the hell kind of time is she living [TS]

  where people are making fun of [TS]

  four-year-olds 222222 a teenager's face [TS]

  I mean you know what what what on earth [TS]

  i hear that the same kind of town where [TS]

  her father supposedly has disappeared to [TS]

  go for another one [TS]

  I mean it's a small town that that [TS]

  family is the talk right you know when [TS]

  they're not like them they're not from [TS]

  there they're not like them it's [TS]

  probably the rest of them probably been [TS]

  there and their parents were there and [TS]

  all that I grew up in a town like that [TS]

  right and it will end was not one of [TS]

  those families [TS]

  I so I totally I totally get that you're [TS]

  right it may be a little stretch the [TS]

  extreme although even then that whole [TS]

  thing is we're going to know that they [TS]

  got that little one he's not right in [TS]

  the head he's got the very using the [TS]

  books that clever people often have [TS]

  subnormal children and I and I thought [TS]

  this is how you can tell the book was [TS]

  written during the sixties is some [TS]

  normal is used as a perfectly acceptable [TS]

  dessert before you leave [TS]

  oh yeah well in reality of people [TS]

  wouldn't use something that polite [TS]

  school on the business well now i know i [TS]

  should point out also just because I'm [TS]

  like this that Sawyer is reading a [TS]

  wrinkle in time in a couple episodes of [TS]

  lost which also feels and features time [TS]

  travel and discussion of of religion and [TS]

  other similar topics religion and faith [TS]

  and i thought i should mention that [TS]

  because of course the books that the [TS]

  characters on lost read are meaningful [TS]

  because they're selected by the [TS]

  producers and and then of course there's [TS]

  time traveling at two so you know [TS]

  believe there is a I'm an interview [TS]

  somewhere that said that wrinkle in time [TS]

  was actually a weirdly big influence on [TS]

  lost in some ways yeah you can see [TS]

  yep yep I think so also i'm looking at a [TS]

  google image search for a wrinkle in [TS]

  time and I found like 80 different [TS]

  covers because every edition of its [TS]

  somebody's like hey let's Commission [TS]

  illustration and some illustrator goes [TS]

  flying horse angel people beside me up [TS]

  and then they do this dreamed it and [TS]

  there are so many so many here it's [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  including mine where they where he [TS]

  stabbed in the back with a rainbow not [TS]

  the best piece of art I do like that [TS]

  they don't bother to show the people if [TS]

  they show more the supernatural things [TS]

  because i think it does let children and [TS]

  adults my copies got kids riding on the [TS]

  back of the rainbow [TS]

  oh SI mi doesn't um although my copy of [TS]

  a swiftly tilting planet features the [TS]

  teenage Charles Wallace who look at [TS]

  mighty seventies and a pair of Flair's [TS]

  and chuck highlights in my pants [TS]

  if you're almost back of feathered hair [TS]

  thing yeah and he's riding like he's [TS]

  reading gaudy or the unicorn and it is [TS]

  the most glorious and Carter you're a [TS]

  picture i have ever seen in my life [TS]

  it's i love that cover so much so hope [TS]

  Larson is far from the first person who [TS]

  had to actually add adapt she just had [TS]

  to tell the story where is everybody [TS]

  else gotta got to say hey I'll have a [TS]

  i'll have a rainbow centaur flying over [TS]

  at all Mountain does that this super [TS]

  cool maybe we'll be buying inspired the [TS]

  if that's right i'll do that whereas the [TS]

  wrinkly time graphic novel cover is the [TS]

  kids [TS]

  yeah and the stars and the stars and the [TS]

  end and kind of a black hole it's all i [TS]

  really love how they do it because [TS]

  you've got the there's about two thirds [TS]

  of the way down the hardcover copy that [TS]

  I've got there's this this this [TS]

  luminescent blue band and it goes from [TS]

  these these silhouettes of the children [TS]

  to the closeup of their faces they're [TS]

  reacting where Meg looks a little um [TS]

  weary and Calvin looks openly stunned [TS]

  but Charles Wallace's just kind of [TS]

  common looking around and I love the [TS]

  juxtaposition of their faces and [TS]

  postures with their little silhouettes I [TS]

  think it is a good job [TS]

  think it is a good job [TS]

  um demonstrated the inter the the short [TS]

  and long journeys they had to take this [TS]

  is your cover the one that's got the [TS]

  gets got the Centaur person flying and [TS]

  below there's like a brain with red eyes [TS]

  in a bubble yes yes that is super creepy [TS]

  isn't it doesn't just know what your [TS]

  fourth grader like this is the greatest [TS]

  yeah that's super scary know mine mine [TS]

  google image search you have to go down [TS]

  like about five rows to see this yellow [TS]

  cover with a with a rain big rainbow at [TS]

  the top and flowers at the bottom [TS]

  because they give her to give him the [TS]

  flowers to breathe [TS]

  I get how that's right they do that on [TS]

  the planet ok i was in the planets are [TS]

  sending you 3000 Uriel yes [TS]

  yeah plenty on your own so what I don't [TS]

  like is there really 1960s one we're all [TS]

  just the nuclei of atoms that's I I've [TS]

  never cared for that matter [TS]

  yeah that's it yeah it's kinda cool from [TS]

  our perspective that I don't think I oh [TS]

  I know what you're talking about [TS]

  oh the rainbow yeah no wings at all just [TS]

  a rainbow know he's been flying by rebo [TS]

  you can hold on hook from that window in [TS]

  your sliding glass door [TS]

  not after yeah I actually if you could [TS]

  well it's actually a stained-glass for [TS]

  you you put the stained-glass pellets in [TS]

  and bake it and then you hit accept [TS]

  because that's going to during the [TS]

  eighties as well around the same time [TS]

  yeah so we're almost at the end of our [TS]

  time but what topics haven't we covered [TS]

  that you would like to discuss before we [TS]

  can well since you brought up laws [TS]

  tonight I want to bring an idea book [TS]

  that won the newbery in 2010 called when [TS]

  you reach me by Rebecca stead which she [TS]

  had said point blank wrinkle in time was [TS]

  heard main influence and on this book [TS]

  and it's it's also about a young teenage [TS]

  girl also very similar to Meg in the [TS]

  late seventies and it also involves time [TS]

  travel and I want standing room but and [TS]

  and the character is reading wrinkle in [TS]

  time throughout the book and and with [TS]

  when she finishes reading it [TS]

  she starts reading it again and it's a [TS]

  really interesting [TS]

  book to read in companion ship to at [TS]

  least the the first book of the the time [TS]

  quintet I guess it is now is now and it [TS]

  you know I picked it up because like [TS]

  well I'm i'll check it out before my [TS]

  kids try reading it and I couldn't put [TS]

  it down it was great and it's one of the [TS]

  few books that my eleven-year-old he [TS]

  does not read books where girls are the [TS]

  heroes and heroines and he read this [TS]

  when damn that's good but yes that is [TS]

  like a doctor who kind of things like [TS]

  it's like a doctor who puzzle so I'm [TS]

  still working on him with wrinkle you'll [TS]

  get there if you like that one [TS]

  oh yeah maybe ok and his best friend is [TS]

  reading it right too so that helps [TS]

  well I have to say it was a it was great [TS]

  I i read the graphic novel checked it [TS]

  out from my local library books are [TS]

  available for free at the library this [TS]

  episode brought to you by the library [TS]

  mom and I and then of course i had my [TS]

  wife's copy bad copy which is which is [TS]

  it was fated that we were going to be [TS]

  together because we have the same [TS]

  edition exactly with the rainbow and [TS]

  flowers and it was so much fun to [TS]

  revisit this because all I did have were [TS]

  these misty water-colored memories of of [TS]

  the way I was and I was really afraid [TS]

  that I was gonna go back to the book and [TS]

  and and be really disappointed because [TS]

  there's so many things you revisit from [TS]

  childhood that are disappointing in [TS]

  hindsight that that as an adult you [TS]

  reading like oh this isn't that good and [TS]

  i gotta say I i really liked it and I I [TS]

  i thought it i thought well my kids [TS]

  should read this this is this is good [TS]

  this is actually it's sci-fi but it's [TS]

  gentle and it's got these interesting [TS]

  other aspects to it and it's and it's [TS]

  you know the characters are really good [TS]

  i I you know I i didn't have enough [TS]

  nostalgia for it to just be a nostalgia [TS]

  trip I really was taking a chance of [TS]

  invalidating my fond memories of it and [TS]

  it didn't say i was very happy with it [TS]

  and then the graphic novel this [TS]

  fantastic too so I I you know for me [TS]

  this was a great [TS]

  visit back to this this material that i [TS]

  hadn't you know experienced since 1980 [TS]

  how about you guys [TS]

  I love this book so much for getting [TS]

  that from you yet know and and the thing [TS]

  is it's it's I pulled out of my [TS]

  daughter's bookcase before I put her [TS]

  down to bed tonight and I think honestly [TS]

  I'm just going to keep it in the [TS]

  bookcase along with the graphic novel [TS]

  and butter discovered on her own as well [TS]

  I don't want to push the books i love [TS]

  down her throat because I don't want I [TS]

  don't want to have a complicated reveal [TS]

  my mom likes this [TS]

  you know or or to feel like she has to [TS]

  like it because i like it so I think one [TS]

  of the hardest things are going to have [TS]

  to do in terms of cultural [TS]

  indoctrinating my kids just keep my [TS]

  hands keep keep my hands back and let [TS]

  her discover this yourself [TS]

  yep i still i think i've read a wrinkle [TS]

  in time six seven times maybe over the [TS]

  course of the last 30 years and i still [TS]

  find something new every time I read it [TS]

  and like jason said sometimes when you [TS]

  go back to that the the books are you [TS]

  thinking back and read them and you're [TS]

  like holy cow have a mountain of center [TS]

  oh my god like come back and recently [TS]

  read The Chronicles of Narnia because [TS]

  again i have those my daughter's [TS]

  bookcase waiting for her and I got to [TS]

  the last battle at all [TS]

  wow those those Calormenes are holy [TS]

  Moses if I were is if I removal may be [TS]

  furious [TS]

  yeah yeah yes or I'm similarly i have [TS]

  girlfriends who are reading little house [TS]

  at the little house that oh man with [TS]

  their daughters and they're like those [TS]

  books are incredibly problematic like oh [TS]

  how Sony went back an old now I see how [TS]

  so [TS]

  I'm they are but uh huh and yeah and I [TS]

  don't know if it's because my love for [TS]

  this book is all it is is is incredibly [TS]

  rational and still tied into the 10 year [TS]

  old who write it [TS]

  I'm just until i'm here to tell you it's [TS]

  not yeah I hear to validate your choices [TS]

  Lisa for things i can see they're [TS]

  basically relics of of the early sixties [TS]

  or of the time was pushing wrote it you [TS]

  know a lot of the lines that she's [TS]

  choosing sure the tramp is the one that [TS]

  gets me it's like yeah you gotta update [TS]

  that because nobody's nobody's going to [TS]

  be talking about the train there's a [TS]

  tramp that was seen around down [TS]

  yes yes but they're no longer answer [TS]

  homeless people here home [TS]

  people yes or when they refer to Charles [TS]

  Wallace is a moron affectionately I'm [TS]

  like oh my gosh maybe not yeah but you [TS]

  so so I find some of the the cultural [TS]

  artifacts to be interesting but all my [TS]

  gosh [TS]

  every time I read this book i'm always [TS]

  glad that I did I don't have that same [TS]

  crunchy Oh or or oh my gosh it's you wow [TS]

  I had no idea this was you know racist [TS]

  or or not of course I should point out [TS]

  here that it's easy to sidestep the the [TS]

  the multicultural questions in this book [TS]

  because it's a fairly homogenous group [TS]

  of of people who do the time travel and [TS]

  even they run into other cultures it's [TS]

  are incredibly respectful and and that [TS]

  said i would love to see how the Murray [TS]

  family does negotiate the streets of New [TS]

  York City anointing sixties but but no I [TS]

  just I like this is probably in my top [TS]

  five books of all times so it's a little [TS]

  difficult for me to be able to apply [TS]

  critical faculties to because i suspect [TS]

  i have not wear this book is concerned [TS]

  it might from my perspective it passes [TS]

  you what i like to call the scooby-doo [TS]

  test which is scooby-doo is the thing [TS]

  that I watched a lot of them i saw an [TS]

  episode my thought oh my god it's [TS]

  terrible i think that brands all really [TS]

  animated and poorly written and awful [TS]

  right and something you don't don't [TS]

  revisit your past things but this one [TS]

  held up for me David [TS]

  what about you yeah it's it's one of [TS]

  those books that you know when there are [TS]

  a couple of books and films and things [TS]

  that just bring back my mother right and [TS]

  and you know even just like passages or [TS]

  quotes or something and you know when i [TS]

  find myself writing something that [TS]

  either she might have written or or that [TS]

  you would love you know it just sort of [TS]

  hits me like a ton of bricks and this is [TS]

  one of those books and so again you know [TS]

  I don't know how much critic faculty i [TS]

  have for it either [TS]

  yeah you know I mean picking up the [TS]

  graphic novel I just pounded through it [TS]

  i mean it I didn't put it down oh yeah [TS]

  mayor and then you know picking up the [TS]

  book itself [TS]

  same thing and and so yeah I i think i [TS]

  think it works beyond my own attachment [TS]

  to it and yeah it'll be interesting to [TS]

  see what my kids do with it if they do [TS]

  with it [TS]

  how are you planning on are you hoping [TS]

  we'll just pick it up on their own one [TS]

  day or are you going to say hey I really [TS]

  like this you might too [TS]

  well you know I being a writer and being [TS]

  married to a librarian our houses like [TS]

  pretty much just books right and brought [TS]

  to you by library party by libraries [TS]

  grandmother buzzer buzzer Oliver [TS]

  children brought to you by librarians [TS]

  and yes it's true you're somebody bout [TS]

  with you and so you know their books [TS]

  that we just have around and I've I've [TS]

  told told them you know you can read [TS]

  anything you want in this house you know [TS]

  if it's if it's not necessarily a kids [TS]

  book will talk about it but you know [TS]

  there's nothing off-limits because [TS]

  that's how I grew up to but yeah I mean [TS]

  their books we just leave around and [TS]

  they'll pick up and they find [TS]

  interesting or their books that they'll [TS]

  hear about in school and go home wait i [TS]

  have that at home and but then there are [TS]

  other books that they'll actually say [TS]

  you know what is this why is this here [TS]

  you know so when they see all the Harry [TS]

  Potter books on the shelf and wrinkle in [TS]

  time what does that mean [TS]

  and i think i think the first time are [TS]

  younger son saw his immediate reaction [TS]

  was dr who that's a doctor who title as [TS]

  well no not exactly but then you know I [TS]

  you I was telling telling the millions [TS]

  this was my grandma's favorite books and [TS]

  they went and that's that's sort of like [TS]

  that shortcut trigger 20 i need to read [TS]

  that then gets grandma thought it was [TS]

  cool because you know they they didn't [TS]

  get to know her as long as I did [TS]

  obviously but they still want that [TS]

  connection to her to go home [TS]

  ok this will help solve questions that i [TS]

  might have about her and and how they [TS]

  what what she did to make my dad the way [TS]

  he is you uh how but yeah for the most [TS]

  part we just sort of let them discover [TS]

  and it's it's fun to watch them go meet [TS]

  you read this [TS]

  well it's in my house son yes I read it [TS]

  at some point [TS]

  yeah I think I maybe having enjoyed it [TS]

  now i may be a little more active and [TS]

  suggesting that my daughter read it and [TS]

  my son I might actually suggest you look [TS]

  at the graphic novel because he tears [TS]

  through graphic novels to read how about [TS]

  you help us in a how does it hold up on [TS]

  revisiting wonderfully and I'm I mean [TS]

  it's probably no surprise the the [TS]

  graphic novel has been either a [TS]

  christmas gift to friends or a you know [TS]

  if I if I have somebody who needs a [TS]

  christmas gift they're getting a copy of [TS]

  the graphic novel is basically been my [TS]

  way of you've never read wrinkle in time [TS]

  here try to miss this [TS]

  yes he had you like it I promise and one [TS]

  of us what would you like to sign up for [TS]

  my newsletter and waving he likes to [TS]

  throw a ball in tandem for a longer [TS]

  yes you can skip rope with you enjoy [TS]

  this lovely did tasty turkey dinner with [TS]

  gravy and trimmings [TS]

  ya know it stands up wonderfully I i [TS]

  really love this story i love her [TS]

  writing there are so few authors that i [TS]

  can think of that immediately spring to [TS]

  mind where their 400-page books there [TS]

  you know 200-page books are just 200 [TS]

  pages of poetry and 200 pages of imagery [TS]

  and Ray Bradbury is one and Madeline [TS]

  Langille is another and I I mean the her [TS]

  her books are one of I did not bring a [TS]

  lot of books from Los Angeles when i [TS]

  moved across the country back to Boston [TS]

  I've still had them all in a box waiting [TS]

  to be shipped but he probably says [TS]

  something that her books my ray bradbury [TS]

  books and my diana wynne jones books are [TS]

  the the one sitting on my nightstand [TS]

  right now [TS]

  well this has been a fantastic change of [TS]

  pace I think for the uncomfortable to do [TS]

  this sort of combination of a classic [TS]

  book from our childhood and they a [TS]

  modern graphic novel retailing which is [TS]

  still has been a lot of fun to to [TS]

  revisit and we are [TS]

  44 in not being disappointed by [TS]

  revisiting it which is also a good sign [TS]

  and not trample on those wonderful [TS]

  childhood memories but have them [TS]

  reaffirmed so yay for us until the next [TS]

  year until the next edition of the [TS]

  incomparable I'd like to thank my guests [TS]

  for being on this journey with me Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser great to have you as always [TS]

  this is so much fun uncle it really was [TS]

  serenity called well thank you to thank [TS]

  you always a pleasure and David Laura [TS]

  was great to have you on an actual [TS]

  episode was great to be here thank you [TS]

  thank you for coming and i'm jason l [TS]

  your host as always thank you for [TS]

  listening everybody will see you next [TS]

  time [TS]