Under the Radar

◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show about

◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today we

◼   ► wanted to talk about WWDC it was just

◼   ► announced as we record it was just

◼   ► announced a little less than a day ago

◼   ► and we wanted to talk about whether you

◼   ► want to go or not because right now

◼   ► they're doing this kind of lottery

◼   ► system just like in the last couple of

◼   ► years where you can you can register to

◼   ► get a ticket and you have to commit to

◼   ► buy it to register and then if they if

◼   ► you if you win the lottery and if you

◼   ► get awarded a ticket they charge your

◼   ► credit card that you've registered with

◼   ► them it's not refundable so you

◼   ► basically have to like pre-commit $1,600

◼   ► to potentially getting this ticket if

◼   ► you want a chance of getting one at all

◼   ► so this raises the obvious question for

◼   ► a lot of us of well do I do I want to

◼   ► try for this or not and David I'm

◼   ► curious did you register and if so why I

◼   ► did I have a lot of reasons why I

◼   ► registered for WDC it's I it's very

◼   ► important for me personally and some of

◼   ► these things will only apply to the way

◼   ► that I run like my business and the way

◼   ► my business is structured but for me WDC

◼   ► is a very unique opportunity like the

◼   ► actual event going to it beyond just

◼   ► like the the things that I could do at

◼   ► home you know like there's I think this

◼   ► year for the they're going to be

◼   ► live-streaming the sessions in past

◼   ► years it's been the videos were

◼   ► available a few hours later and so if

◼   ► you were just going wanting to go to the

◼   ► conference if you were just want to get

◼   ► the information that's presented from

◼   ► stage there's really no need to go to

◼   ► WDC there's no reason to go to San

◼   ► Francisco like you could just do that at

◼   ► home for me though

◼   ► the thing about WDC that makes me want

◼   ► to go like there's the there's the main

◼   ► reason and there's like a kind of a

◼   ► secondary reason the main reason for me

◼   ► is the labs so every year at WCC it's

◼   ► kind of the way it's structured just

◼   ► probably is good to have a bit of a

◼   ► quick overview there's like on Monday

◼   ► and this week this year it's from I

◼   ► think the 13th to the 18th of June now

◼   ► on the Monday they'll have kind of like

◼   ► the big keynote addresses in the morning

◼   ► there's usually the like the executive

◼   ► one so you know where Tim Koch and Phil

◼   ► Schiller and those kind of

◼   ► people will come up on stage and give

◼   ► the broad strokes of Apple's vision for

◼   ► you know then the next generation of

◼   ► their software typically you know so

◼   ► what's coming in iOS so is 10 watch OST

◼   ► vos like the big high-level things we'll

◼   ► break for lunch and then they'll have

◼   ► the developer State of the Union type of

◼   ► thing where they talk in greater

◼   ► technical depth about in all the things

◼   ► that were said in the morning and then

◼   ► the rest of the week

◼   ► Tuesday through Friday is broken up into

◼   ► there'll be sessions which are you know

◼   ► sort of powerful or keynote

◼   ► presentations talking about the various

◼   ► technologies that are introduced or

◼   ► things that are new things that you want

◼   ► to learn about and those are gonna be

◼   ► live streamed and available and then

◼   ► downstairs yeah at most the Moscone West

◼   ► Center where it's held they have the

◼   ► labs which are we're a bunch of Apple

◼   ► engineers essentially I think they

◼   ► usually say it's something like about a

◼   ► thousand engineers are on hand in very

◼   ► at various times throughout the week

◼   ► we'll sit down and they'll have sort of

◼   ► office hours where you can come in and

◼   ► talk to people on the various technical

◼   ► teams so say I'm having a problem with

◼   ► core emotion I can go to the core

◼   ► emotion lab and I can sit down and I can

◼   ► talk to somebody who either wrote the

◼   ► API is that I'm working with or knows

◼   ► the person who did and for me that's the

◼   ► part that is completely irreplaceable

◼   ► and in some ways honestly kind of

◼   ► essential for the way I do my business

◼   ► because I have kind of made a living on

◼   ► looking at Apple's newest platforms and

◼   ► their newest technologies and being one

◼   ► of the first people to adopt them in

◼   ► whatever form that looks like you know

◼   ► so whenever there's a new like I just

◼   ► did with activity plus plus like there

◼   ► was this new API for active accessing

◼   ► activity data I submitted my app the

◼   ► moment it was possible to do that and

◼   ► you know that works out and for me WDC

◼   ► is this tremendous opportunity to go and

◼   ► talk to people about not really like the

◼   ► what of what was announced like things

◼   ► think things did you get from the video

◼   ► where they say like here's the five new

◼   ► api's here's the new things here's

◼   ► what's going on but being able to go and

◼   ► talk to an engineer about it's kind of

◼   ► why and to be able to say like well this

◼   ► is like I think I can go and I can but

◼   ► I'll tend to do is I'll sit down and

◼   ► kind of bang out a really rough

◼   ► prototype of something

◼   ► I'm thinking about maybe working on this

◼   ► summer go ahead down to the lab and be

◼   ► like hey this is how I'm doing it and is

◼   ► this a reasonable approach like nothing

◼   ► even more specific than is this a

◼   ► reasonable approach and you will often

◼   ► be from conversations than with those

◼   ► engineers you can understand why they're

◼   ► doing things the way they are and for me

◼   ► that's kind of essential and I'm ready

◼   ► to register for ticket I got my fingers

◼   ► crossed that he'll be one of the ones

◼   ► who's been selected for that reason and

◼   ► then secondarily and a bit more

◼   ► amusingly I love going to wvc because

◼   ► it's almost like every year

◼   ► being at an iOS developer there are a

◼   ► lot of things that are frustrating there

◼   ► are a lot of things that are challenging

◼   ► and that can kind of wear on you after a

◼   ► while

◼   ► and the thing with about WB DC is I've

◼   ► been I had the privilege of going I

◼   ► think six times before six or seven it's

◼   ► quite a few and every time I go I always

◼   ► leave that BBC feeling excited motivated

◼   ► and just kind of like jazzed about the

◼   ► platform and the cool things that are

◼   ► coming and it you could say it's kind of

◼   ► like going big it's like I go to San

◼   ► Francisco and I drink the kool-aid again

◼   ► and that's kind of like the negative way

◼   ► to look at it or you could just say like

◼   ► it's it's a time to go and reconnect

◼   ► with the things that originally made me

◼   ► so excited for this platform and kind of

◼   ► wash away some of the things that may

◼   ► have been frustrating in the previous

◼   ► year and kind of recenter and focus on

◼   ► okay you know what's gonna happen the

◼   ► next year and so for me the $1,600 and

◼   ► throwing my name in the Hat like just

◼   ► makes perfect sense yeah I mean I have

◼   ► mostly the same kind of feelings about

◼   ► it

◼   ► I also registered and I also you know

◼   ► put down the potential $1,600 to

◼   ► potentially get a ticket for me it's

◼   ► it's it's mostly about the community

◼   ► side at this point because the technical

◼   ► stuff is you know while it is strong and

◼   ► it is very good you also don't you know

◼   ► increasingly you have to be there less

◼   ► and less to get it because every year

◼   ► you know it used to be back in the olden

◼   ► days back when you could sell apps for

◼   ► money it used to be that they they would

◼   ► they would put up the videos like three

◼   ► months after the conference or something

◼   ► like that and then every year as as the

◼   ► as the conference has has become more

◼   ► and more oversold and overcapacity

◼   ► they've tried to address that issue of

◼   ► like there's so many people who want to

◼   ► be there but just can't get a ticket

◼   ► because there aren't enough or they

◼   ► can't get out there for scheduling the

◼   ► work reasons or the other problem is

◼   ► it's just a lot of money and a lot of

◼   ► people cannot afford to put down the

◼   ► probably all in four thousand dollars

◼   ► that you'll that you'll be in to to do

◼   ► this trip something like that because a

◼   ► big part of which is the hotel but see

◼   ► how that goes so it's a lot of money

◼   ► it's a it's you know a week off of work

◼   ► that you have to go do this so a lot of

◼   ► people can't be there so what they've

◼   ► been doing is making the videos

◼   ► available earlier and earlier to the

◼   ► point where oh and also dropping the

◼   ► requirement that even had to be a paying

◼   ► developer member to even watch them that

◼   ► used to be the case now any developer

◼   ► can watch them for free and you don't

◼   ► have to have been there you don't need

◼   ► the hundred dollar full membership level

◼   ► any any developer can watch these videos

◼   ► and the videos himself have gotten

◼   ► better they have transcripts and that's

◼   ► searchable and all that stuff and the

◼   ► production value has gone up and

◼   ► everything and they are now releasing

◼   ► them so fast last year they were

◼   ► released like within a day or so of them

◼   ► of the talks happening and this year

◼   ► they're saying as you mentioned this

◼   ► year they're gonna be live broadcast in

◼   ► them which has never happened before for

◼   ► anything beyond the initial keynote so

◼   ► increasingly there's less and less

◼   ► reason why you need to be there as a

◼   ► developer and that's why if I you know

◼   ► in past years I have been so scared that

◼   ► I wouldn't get a ticket and I've been

◼   ► very lucky that for the last seven years

◼   ► I have gotten a ticket and all the one

◼   ► year I had to sign up to developer

◼   ► accounts two together but this year if I

◼   ► don't get a ticket I don't think I'm

◼   ► gonna be as disappointed and I'm still

◼   ► gonna go and and there's a whole

◼   ► question of like whether you should go

◼   ► out to San Francisco for that week

◼   ► anyway even if you don't get a ticket

◼   ► cuz there are other things to do there

◼   ► are other events that people put on just

◼   ► not Apple but you know there's other

◼   ► conferences there's the layers

◼   ► conference there's alt conf there's a

◼   ► lot of like meetups and user groups and

◼   ► there's just all

◼   ► these developers who were all in town

◼   ► that week and so there's lots of social

◼   ► events if you have any developer friends

◼   ► or if you just go to a bar near Moscone

◼   ► you will find developers and you can

◼   ► make developer friends and so there's

◼   ► there's a lot of reasons to be there

◼   ► regardless so if I don't get a ticket

◼   ► this year I think what I will miss the

◼   ► most is kind of the the fun of like

◼   ► being in the building and like going to

◼   ► sessions live and and go into the

◼   ► keynote waiting with waiting with you

◼   ► and John and Casey in line and and like

◼   ► doing all that stuff

◼   ► well I really miss the line maybe it's

◼   ► part of the fun I'll miss the

◼   ► camaraderie of the line but maybe not

◼   ► the duration of it but you know

◼   ► ultimately I will have fun that week out

◼   ► there regardless of whether I get a

◼   ► ticket or not so the ticket will

◼   ► basically if I get the ticket the value

◼   ► of it is in structuring my day and

◼   ► giving me a place I have to be all day

◼   ► every day and and a venue to go to and

◼   ► and things to see and and talks to see

◼   ► and and kind of the the the focus of

◼   ► having it be like my only job this week

◼   ► is to watch these sessions and then

◼   ► socialize at night but you know my my

◼   ► primary job this week is to watch these

◼   ► sessions live because when they post the

◼   ► videos afterwards it's a little harder

◼   ► to find the time to sit down and do it

◼   ► because if you're just sitting at home

◼   ► in your office you have all sorts of

◼   ► other work to do you might have a family

◼   ► to also take care of so like your whole

◼   ► life is is pressuring you during all

◼   ► other times of the year that you should

◼   ► probably be doing something else rather

◼   ► than sitting and watching a whole bunch

◼   ► of videos for api's and stuff that you

◼   ► might not even be using yet that you

◼   ► might just think might be interesting

◼   ► you know when are you gonna find him to

◼   ► do that well if you're there your job is

◼   ► to go to those things that is the reason

◼   ► you're there you have that time kind of

◼   ► carved out and that is what your focus

◼   ► is if you if you're not there or if

◼   ► you're there without a ticket it's less

◼   ► focused so I feel like I will miss that

◼   ► that kind of focus and forced attention

◼   ► on on the sessions because that's a good

◼   ► thing however probably the biggest thing

◼   ► I would miss would be

◼   ► the Mosconi sandwiches no just kidding

◼   ► it'll be the labs it would be you know

◼   ► as you know as as you mentioned like

◼   ► having the labs having access to the

◼   ► Apple engineers has not always but has

◼   ► reasonably frequently provided me with

◼   ► pretty good information oftentimes very

◼   ► good information so I that is the part I

◼   ► would miss the most if I don't get a

◼   ► ticket but the rest of the conference I

◼   ► feel like if you've if you've gone to

◼   ► them for a few years you kind of know

◼   ► what it is assuming they don't change it

◼   ► you know Matt massively which is not

◼   ► necessarily a safe assumption because

◼   ► they are already doing like the keynote

◼   ► at the Bill Graham auditorium and so

◼   ► what we're gonna see like there there's

◼   ► some changes in the event here but I

◼   ► feel like I've gotten so much out of it

◼   ► in previous years that maybe it's time

◼   ► for a break I don't know I don't know I

◼   ► think I'm certainly conflicted on the

◼   ► issue that's why like if if I do get a

◼   ► ticket okay well I don't need to think

◼   ► about it for another year and if I don't

◼   ► get a ticket I guess I'll see what

◼   ► happens

◼   ► and I think that's fair like it's like

◼   ► damnit what do you see is it's it's just

◼   ► it comes to this for me it comes into

◼   ► the strange middle ground between being

◼   ► like strictly rational and somewhat

◼   ► emotional like I have an affinity to it

◼   ► that is not just logical it's not just

◼   ► like oh it makes sense to go here like I

◼   ► have good reasons that I can justify to

◼   ► myself and I think there are real

◼   ► reasons for like I need to go and talk

◼   ► to people in the labs that are good but

◼   ► if I didn't get a ticket it would be sad

◼   ► in a way that it's just emotional like I

◼   ► remember you know it was 2009 was my

◼   ► first WWDC yeah me too and like I

◼   ► remember how exciting that felt and

◼   ► there's a certain amount of nostalgia or

◼   ► and just like affinity that I have for

◼   ► the event where I think about it and

◼   ► it's just it's just kind of fun like

◼   ► it's everybody there like loves and

◼   ► cares about the same things that I love

◼   ► and care about they're all doing the

◼   ► same job like it's a really fun

◼   ► environment to be in and that emotional

◼   ► part of just like

◼   ► every time I mean I've been to it for

◼   ► years but I still like when we you know

◼   ► you finally comes right before the

◼   ► keynote and you're kind of all

◼   ► everyone's kind of you know finally

◼   ► found their seats you're sitting down

◼   ► like the excitement of just being there

◼   ► in that room ever with everyone's kind

◼   ► of waiting and anticipating like what's

◼   ► gonna happen what's gonna you know

◼   ► what's going to come and in some ways

◼   ► like it's kind of impactful too because

◼   ► the things that are bad about to Annette

◼   ► be announced are potentially you like

◼   ► completely like a pet could potentially

◼   ► upend my business or change dramatically

◼   ► what I'm planning to do for the next

◼   ► three or four months and so that puts a

◼   ► bit of stakes on the announcements and

◼   ► so then being there for it like it just

◼   ► there's such an emotional excitement

◼   ► that comes from it that I think I would

◼   ► miss even more than like you know I

◼   ► would really be sad to not have the labs

◼   ► but just to not have that feeling of

◼   ► like it got it's like excitement is the

◼   ► best word I have of just well I don't

◼   ► love getting up and you know it's like

◼   ► really early in the morning and standing

◼   ► out in the San Francisco

◼   ► I guess winter because it's freezing

◼   ► cold and ajuna but like standing outside

◼   ► in that San Francisco winter where it's

◼   ► just freezing cold and you're kind of

◼   ► just like mulling around for a few hours

◼   ► before they let you in which who knows

◼   ► maybe at this new you know Civic

◼   ► Auditorium they'll have a better a

◼   ► better scheme for that rather than just

◼   ► like wrapping us around the block three

◼   ► times but there's something exciting

◼   ► about it and if you're a developer who's

◼   ► never been to WWDC it's it's a hard

◼   ► thing to like you know I don't even like

◼   ► explain that feeling that if you're

◼   ► looking at it and it's like you know

◼   ► like I can get all of you much all the

◼   ► information I need from just staying at

◼   ► home like that is absolutely true like

◼   ► there's no like a strict need to go to

◼   ► WTC the videos were live streamed if you

◼   ► have questions and problems and like you

◼   ► know had but that was something that

◼   ► would have been helpful to go to the

◼   ► labs you know there are people at Apple

◼   ► you can reach out to you like there's a

◼   ► whole evangelism team whose job it is to

◼   ► field similar types of questions but

◼   ► it's just never going to be the same and

◼   ► so I would encourage most people if he's

◼   ► officially even ever been to try is like

◼   ► put your name in and you know it's it's

◼   ► ever see everyone's mileage will you

◼   ► know will differ and like if you may

◼   ► just find

◼   ► not really your thing but for me Ivan

◼   ► every year I've come back I've always

◼   ► wanted to go back the next year I've

◼   ► never gone to WDC and then come back and

◼   ► said you know what that's probably it

◼   ► for me I'm probably done like every year

◼   ► I come back just more and more excited

◼   ► even as things have changed like it's

◼   ► been a wildly different thing you know

◼   ► back in 2009 what would what would that

◼   ► have been they were announcing iOS or

◼   ► probably iPhone OS for something might

◼   ► yeah four or five like that like it is

◼   ► so much has changed since then like I

◼   ► mean it's kind of the crazy things I

◼   ► remember when they introduced iCloud

◼   ► like that was like a big deal and one of

◼   ► them or that was Steve's last

◼   ► presentation or his last big one at

◼   ► least yeah certainly and I mean not me

◼   ► obviously that like that side of things

◼   ► is even more crazy when I think about

◼   ► the fact that I had sort of had the

◼   ► privilege of seeing Steve Jobs keynotes

◼   ► mm-hmm

◼   ► like that's kind of special in a way

◼   ► that's almost you know like a little

◼   ► overwhelming like it was it's like some

◼   ► having been able to I think I saw two or

◼   ► three that he would they presented at

◼   ► and just you know like seeing the legend

◼   ► is is really cool so that's kind of

◼   ► where I am but nothing like you say like

◼   ► I'm going out either way no matter what

◼   ► I will be in San Francisco from you know

◼   ► it's the Sunday before to the Friday

◼   ► after like I will be I will be there if

◼   ► I have a ticket awesome like as you say

◼   ► like it's lovely to give some structure

◼   ► if I don't I don't really know what I'll

◼   ► do during the day I mean I imagine I

◼   ► will watch some of the sessions maybe

◼   ► I'll do a bit more actual programming

◼   ► rather than watching and thinking about

◼   ► programming which I don't know if that's

◼   ► better or worse maybe it'll be a little

◼   ► easier on to socialize a bit more but

◼   ► one way or the other I'm gonna be there

◼   ► cuz I think even just even not being

◼   ► instant like past the door and being

◼   ► inside there's still something exciting

◼   ► about going to a place cuz I think I

◼   ► remember I think was Jason Snell I was

◼   ► was talking about this where he used to

◼   ► be like there were events like Macworld

◼   ► Expo which were as like a place where

◼   ► people could go to like be around

◼   ► like-minded people like people who cared

◼   ► about the same kind of things and you

◼   ► there's something kind of fun and

◼   ► exciting about that and now

◼   ► the main event for Apple like Apple

◼   ► minded people where if you you know so

◼   ► if you go there and just sort of like by

◼   ► osmosis we'll be surrounded by people

◼   ► who care about the same stuff like it's

◼   ► that one week this week in W in San

◼   ► Francisco and so like I would just go

◼   ► just for that just to be around these

◼   ► people you know there's all these there

◼   ► are many people who I only see once a

◼   ► year and I see them in San Francisco

◼   ► during WDC and like I have friend you

◼   ► you're sort of like whole friendships

◼   ► just based on that and so it's kind of

◼   ► fun to just have that as a thing oh yeah

◼   ► I mean that's that's why I like the idea

◼   ► of not going out there at all just

◼   ► didn't even occur to me that's why as

◼   ► soon as the date was firmly announced

◼   ► yesterday I booked the flight yeah and I

◼   ► don't know if I'm gonna have the

◼   ► conference badge or not yet but I booked

◼   ► the flight and I booked the hotel months

◼   ► ago cuz hotels are easily cancelable for

◼   ► no money and so like I booked the stuff

◼   ► because the the idea of not going never

◼   ► even entered my mind of course I'm going

◼   ► this is like this is the one conference

◼   ► that happens every year that it is like

◼   ► a fixed block on my calendar it is

◼   ► non-negotiable like it would take a lot

◼   ► for me not to go like it would have to

◼   ► be like some like massive family event

◼   ► like having a baby like then I wouldn't

◼   ► go but otherwise like it would be it

◼   ► would take a lot for me not to go to

◼   ► this whether I have taken or not and at

◼   ► you know the a little bit more on having

◼   ► tickets or not in a second but first I

◼   ► wanted to thank our sponsor this week we

◼   ► respond to this week we decided to do

◼   ► something a little different this week

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◼   ► already an overcast user and if you're

◼   ► on a patron yet I'd love it if you could

◼   ► become a patron you get a cool dark mode

◼   ► and you get to support the service and

◼   ► support server cost and stuff like that

◼   ► and my amazing extravagant lifestyle so

◼   ► David I would like to encourage you if

◼   ► you do not already to try one of my

◼   ► fitness

◼   ► and wellness apps so I make a couple of

◼   ► apps they tend to have a plus plus at

◼   ► the end of them there's pedometer plus

◼   ► plus to the plus plus an activity plus

◼   ► plus apps that helps you measure and

◼   ► understand your fitness and level of

◼   ► activity throughout the day and

◼   ► hopefully help you to make more active

◼   ► choices and so if you haven't already

◼   ► please go check what either something

◼   ► with some of those apps out or Marco's

◼   ► overcast and you give us a give us a try

◼   ► and support us that way it's just a if

◼   ► you listen to this and you like the way

◼   ► we speak maybe you like the things we

◼   ► make to thanks so if you're playing

◼   ► going into everybody see without a

◼   ► ticket there are a couple things that I

◼   ► would add to this just a little bit so

◼   ► first of all I agree with you David I'm

◼   ► a little concerned about what the heck I

◼   ► would do all day the good thing is there

◼   ► are a lot of people who go out there

◼   ► without tickets and so there are like

◼   ► little gatherings some sometimes like

◼   ► some some of the local companies like I

◼   ► think Twitter hosted the keynote

◼   ► watching party last year was that right

◼   ► that sounds right yeah and so like

◼   ► sometimes like local San Francisco

◼   ► companies who have offices in the area

◼   ► will will host developer get-togethers

◼   ► and meetups and little events to watch

◼   ► some of the live streams a lot of some

◼   ► people will just watch them like they'll

◼   ► like rent a little conference room in

◼   ► the hotel that they're in and just like

◼   ► have like a small gathering people to

◼   ► watch them there or people will just

◼   ► watch them privately in little groups of

◼   ► like two or three friends together so

◼   ► there are a lot of people who go out

◼   ► there the only thing is if you if you

◼   ► already know people you already like

◼   ► have established friends and contacts

◼   ► who will be there it's a lot easier if

◼   ► you're going out there and you don't

◼   ► know anybody yet I highly suggest trying

◼   ► to get that ticket because it's a lot

◼   ► it's it's not that it can't be done to

◼   ► go out there without knowing anybody and

◼   ► find people and make new friends but

◼   ► it's a lot harder if you don't have a

◼   ► ticket because if you're in the

◼   ► conference building then you're gonna be

◼   ► walking around and everybody around you

◼   ► is gonna be an iOS developer or Mac

◼   ► developer or a soon-to-be iOS or my

◼   ► developer everyone around he's gonna be

◼   ► part of that social group there and

◼   ► there's gonna be so many other people

◼   ► there who you know in the building who

◼   ► are looking to meet people looking to

◼   ► socialize and looking to make new

◼   ► friends looking to MIT to make contacts

◼   ► whereas if you're walking around the

◼   ► streets or sitting in a hotel room it's

◼   ► harder again it can be done but it's

◼   ► harder so if it's your first time out

◼   ► there if you don't have a lot of fun

◼   ► already in the in the community I do

◼   ► highly suggest tryna get that ticket it

◼   ► will help a lot and otherwise if you're

◼   ► if you are regardless of whether you

◼   ► know anybody out there or not if you're

◼   ► going out there to to hang out and to

◼   ► meet new people don't be afraid to go up

◼   ► to people who you see who you recognize

◼   ► if they're you know well-known

◼   ► developers or podcasters or bloggers

◼   ► that ever go up to them and say hi do

◼   ► not be the person who sits back in it

◼   ► and then tweets later oh I saw John

◼   ► Gruber today but I was too scared to say

◼   ► hi because you know what all of us like

◼   ► people who who you might know in this

◼   ► community we're all just normal people

◼   ► you don't have it's not like we're Brad

◼   ► Pitt you don't have to like be worried

◼   ► about coming up and saying hi cuz like

◼   ► it's really cool for us to have anybody

◼   ► in real life know who we are because

◼   ► that's amazing

◼   ► because every day is not like that and

◼   ► so go up to people I think you will find

◼   ► that this is a very friendly community

◼   ► and we are all know the vast majority of

◼   ► us are all socially awkward geeks and so

◼   ► you know if you are worried if you are a

◼   ► socially awkward geek you don't need to

◼   ► be worried about that because all of us

◼   ► are and we are very welcoming and you

◼   ► know we will we are likely just as

◼   ► nervous trying to have conversations

◼   ► with people we don't know as you might

◼   ► be but please come up and talk to

◼   ► anybody you find who you recognize also

◼   ► don't be afraid to you know to at reply

◼   ► you know if to mention people on Twitter

◼   ► to ask people like hey you know where's

◼   ► where are you hanging out tonight like

◼   ► you know like what are there any good

◼   ► parties that you might know or any good

◼   ► gatherings that that are public or

◼   ► whatever like if you were if you need

◼   ► access into a certain group of social a

◼   ► certain social community or group of

◼   ► friends who you're trying to meet or you

◼   ► know certain developer a certain ride or

◼   ► whatever else you you know you can you

◼   ► can be a little forthcoming you know you

◼   ► don't have to like stalk anybody but

◼   ► like you can be a little forthcoming

◼   ► because this is ultimately a very open

◼   ► community open to new people welcoming

◼   ► of new people and and there's so many

◼   ► people out there who are all you know

◼   ► we're all basically the same kind of

◼   ► person you know we all like

◼   ► the same stuff we are many of us has a

◼   ► set our geeks and we all like to say hi

◼   ► to people who share a common interest so

◼   ► it's totally okay to be a little forward

◼   ► socially in meeting people when you're

◼   ► out there yeah because I think and it's

◼   ► just to jump on it extend that to is I

◼   ► remember clearly that first year going

◼   ► out to WDC and knowing nobody like I I

◼   ► didn't I don't think I couldn't think of

◼   ► one person that I knew when I was going

◼   ► out there and I did at this point my

◼   ► apps weren't well particularly well

◼   ► known it wasn't like I had a podcast or

◼   ► a blog or something that something

◼   ► something that people would know me by

◼   ► like I was so fairly new to this and I

◼   ► just remember but I still had people

◼   ► that I admired people that I respected

◼   ► that I had in the back of my mind to

◼   ► like how cool would it be to meet these

◼   ► people and it was it took a lot of

◼   ► effort and I remember it being very

◼   ► difficult to force myself to not just

◼   ► like go back to my hotel room every

◼   ► night and go to sleep

◼   ► I'm horde heifer like I just work on my

◼   ► code or like things like that like it

◼   ► was so it was so easy and always it like

◼   ► the path of least resistance is always

◼   ► like you know what I could go to this

◼   ► event or I could go and just hang out

◼   ► and most you know like at the Moscone

◼   ► Center um I could do that or I could not

◼   ► and I could just have dinner by myself

◼   ► and then go back to my hotel room and

◼   ► some nights I would have the courage to

◼   ► go and like go out and some nights I

◼   ► didn't and the reality though looking

◼   ► back is I wouldn't have the friends I

◼   ► have now and the connections I have in

◼   ► our community if every night I had just

◼   ► gone had dinner by myself and then went

◼   ► back to my hotel that like I have dear

◼   ► and precious friends to me now who I got

◼   ► to know because at some point I you know

◼   ► went up to somebody and said hi I'm

◼   ► David Smith I love your work you know

◼   ► and it's a pleasure to meet you like to

◼   ► you know there are so many people who I

◼   ► just admired and respected who then I

◼   ► that's how I met that way I mean in a

◼   ► weird Sweden they say like

◼   ► how I met you Marco yeah I remember in

◼   ► further w like i remember meeting you at

◼   ► WTC and you know who i would that if I

◼   ► had like if I could have told my future

◼   ► like my past self like in a couple years

◼   ► to be doing a podcast with Marco like it

◼   ► would have sounded completely absurd to

◼   ► me like at this point I think I was like

◼   ► I was a big build an analyze fan and it

◼   ► was this kind of cool thing and you

◼   ► never know where how these things are

◼   ► gonna play out and you just never know

◼   ► but if you don't a have if you don't

◼   ► serve just like you know what I'm gonna

◼   ► do this it doesn't feel good but I know

◼   ► that it will end up better like flossing

◼   ► yeah whatever exactly meeting us is like

◼   ► flossing

◼   ► exactly it's it was such a wonderful

◼   ► analogy but I definitely would encourage

◼   ► people to do that and like sometimes

◼   ► it'll work sometimes it won't like in

◼   ► terms of sometimes you'll have really

◼   ► awkward interactions that feel like it's

◼   ► like man that will it didn't really go

◼   ► well but other times it really will and

◼   ► it's the kind of thing like there's no

◼   ► there's no like magic answer for

◼   ► socializing it's not like oh here's

◼   ► these three things that you should do

◼   ► but it's the kind of thing that you just

◼   ► keep doing and then you'll look back on

◼   ► and see how those upper to know how

◼   ► those moments of just being like you

◼   ► know what I'm gonna go up and say hello

◼   ► well eventually you do it enough it gets

◼   ► easier and it starts to build some real

◼   ► connections that you know you can look

◼   ► back on and kind of just be amazed yeah

◼   ► I'm looking forward to so you know this

◼   ► goes you know it's I guess the all the

◼   ► time we have for this week thank you for

◼   ► everybody for listening I hope that if

◼   ► you have the the means and opportunity

◼   ► to consider going to WTC I hope you

◼   ► register to get a ticket because you

◼   ► have to do that basically now to to have

◼   ► a chance of getting it for everybody who

◼   ► registered who who who really needs that

◼   ► ticket to go I hope you get one and I

◼   ► look forward to seeing everybody this

◼   ► year yeah I imagine you'll be able to

◼   ► find one way or the other you have to

◼   ► find Marco and I in San Francisco so if

◼   ► you see us by all means say hi you

◼   ► definitely spot David by the color of

◼   ► his shirt it's usually very bright and

◼   ► blue exactly basically the brighter

◼   ► version of the color of OS 10 folders

◼   ► is that about right it's a powerhead

◼   ► yeah or maybe I think the better one to

◼   ► go for is it's if you if you have one of

◼   ► those blue developer watches that Apple

◼   ► watch if you know Apple put out when ya

◼   ► was first introduced if you see

◼   ► something that's that blue that's

◼   ► probably me exactly

◼   ► alright thanks for listening everybody

◼   ► and always floss and we will talk to you

◼   ► next week bye

◼   ► I don't floss