Under the Radar 19: Improving the App Store, Part 1
◼
►
welcome to under the radar a show about
◼
►
independent iOS app development I'm
◼
►
and I'm David Smith under the radar is
◼
►
never longer than 30 minutes so let's
◼
►
get started so today we're going to
◼
►
unpack some of the things that we think
◼
►
might make the App Store better and if
◼
►
you were a listener to developing
◼
►
perspective the show I did before this
◼
►
one you might know that I look about a
◼
►
year ago I did a long long series
◼
►
actually two years ago I did a long
◼
►
series about things that I thought could
◼
►
make the App Store better and we both
◼
►
kind of make it make our livings inside
◼
►
of the App Store and so as you would
◼
►
imagine we have a lot of concerns
◼
►
thoughts goals like things we'd like we
◼
►
think about in the abstract because it's
◼
►
a place we spend a lot of time both as a
◼
►
customer but also as a as a producer
◼
►
it's easy I think for us to look at the
◼
►
App Store and to just kind of like whine
◼
►
about it to look at and say oh I wish I
◼
►
did this I wish you did that like we all
◼
►
have some kind of like pet things that
◼
►
we think might make it better for
◼
►
whatever that you know better might mean
◼
►
to us but it's challenging it's
◼
►
difficult for unless perhaps to take the
◼
►
sort of like the step back and say you
◼
►
know the App Store is the way it is you
◼
►
know and whining about that isn't going
◼
►
to change it we can look at it we can
◼
►
learn from it and it's like our job as a
◼
►
developers is to understand how we can
◼
►
make a living inside of sort of it as as
◼
►
it exists and hope that Apple is doing
◼
►
things on their end to make it better
◼
►
but from the outside it seems like you
◼
►
know sometimes when I think of have the
◼
►
office or too much I start to get sad
◼
►
and I go and like I'm trying to be a
◼
►
good student of the App Store and
◼
►
understand like what's being successful
◼
►
what's working you know go to the
◼
►
top-grossing list which isn't
◼
►
necessarily the most constructive place
◼
►
because that's not really the kind of
◼
►
apps I'm making you know but I go there
◼
►
and I look at like them but the top mode
◼
►
the top grossing app we're at right now
◼
►
as a recording is clash Royale and I go
◼
►
to its IEP list and it's like what would
◼
►
you like to buy a fistful of gems a
◼
►
pouch of gems a bucket of gems a barrel
◼
►
of gem the mountain of gems or a
◼
►
wagonload of gems is that really what I
◼
►
that is that is the list of the top
◼
►
in-app purchases in the top-grossing
◼
►
half right now and it's kind of sad too
◼
►
when I think about like I go to W
◼
►
you see every year and almost always
◼
►
they'll have like Apple will have a big
◼
►
slide that talks about how much money
◼
►
they've paid out to developers
◼
►
last year it was something like 14
◼
►
billion dollars or something and rather
◼
►
than that being like exciting and
◼
►
encouraging and being like yeah let's
◼
►
you know let's let's do this guy's it
◼
►
just kind of makes me sad because I look
◼
►
at that number and I just think well I
◼
►
guess that's a lot of wagons full of
◼
►
gems just not great yeah I mean look
◼
►
that that number you know outside of any
◼
►
information on the distribution of those
◼
►
stats like you know the median might be
◼
►
a little more interesting although
◼
►
honestly it we probably be pretty sad to
◼
►
just in the opposite direction but yeah
◼
►
I mean like when you have these these
◼
►
mega hit games that are bringing in
◼
►
hundreds of thousands of dollars a day
◼
►
or more that that's that's roughly what
◼
►
we're talking about here it's you could
◼
►
be bringing in millions of dollars a day
◼
►
from our perspective it's it's it's
◼
►
really easy to look at that and be like
◼
►
wow why am I even in the App Store if
◼
►
that's what succeeds but that's you know
◼
►
that's not a very productive way to look
◼
►
at it or encourage me to look at it I
◼
►
think a better way to look at it is we
◼
►
aren't even playing the same game as
◼
►
these people and the what we need to be
◼
►
concerned about is is there a game that
◼
►
we can play here like is there a spot
◼
►
for us in the App Store where we can
◼
►
succeed I think you know there's enough
◼
►
apps by smaller shops that aren't
◼
►
abusive games like this if there's
◼
►
enough apps that do succeed that the
◼
►
answer to that is is almost certainly
◼
►
yes there is a spot but that doesn't
◼
►
mean necessarily that it's easy to get
◼
►
into one of those spots although it
◼
►
might not necessarily need to be easy
◼
►
but that also doesn't mean that Apple's
◼
►
you know doing everything they can to
◼
►
make sure the rest of the store is
◼
►
healthy besides just that top grocery
◼
►
list and there's lots of areas I think
◼
►
for potential improvement that we're
◼
►
gonna talk about yeah and I think it's
◼
►
one thing everything that motivated I
◼
►
think this discussion I wanted to sort
◼
►
of talk about it now is that if the
◼
►
first time in a long time I feel like
◼
►
there's outward signs that the App Store
◼
►
is going to be changing this year and
◼
►
most significant of which is Phil
◼
►
Schiller is now taking responsibility
◼
►
for it which I mean I think Phil is
◼
►
awesome and that's really encouraging to
◼
►
me but even just the simple fact of
◼
►
there's a change in leadership there
◼
►
a change in responsibility like in my
◼
►
mind can only be better be good and I
◼
►
think I'm encouraged that even Phil is
◼
►
kind of publicly in a few random sort of
◼
►
tweets or things when people are
◼
►
bringing to his attention like there's
◼
►
weird issues in the AppStore like a
◼
►
private link in the show notes to a
◼
►
tweet someone sent to him showing a sort
◼
►
of like a featured area in the App Store
◼
►
for the puzzle games and it's just full
◼
►
chock-full of the 2048 clones and you
◼
►
kind of have the ne his response to that
◼
►
it's like that shouldn't happen we'll
◼
►
thank you and the fact that he's that
◼
►
kind of thing is even happening at any
◼
►
level makes me encourage and so I think
◼
►
we wanted to do for the rest of the
◼
►
episode is to kind of think through what
◼
►
are some things that we would like to
◼
►
see done you know like we were if we
◼
►
were sitting down in a room with Phil
◼
►
and he was like you know as independent
◼
►
developers what could I do to make the
◼
►
App Store better for you like what would
◼
►
that be and think through what what that
◼
►
would actually be and things that we
◼
►
could think about that would make you
◼
►
know the App Store an objectively better
◼
►
place both as a customer or as a you
◼
►
know someone who makes their living in
◼
►
so our sponsor this week is tap stream
◼
►
you've invested months building your app
◼
►
fought the good fight with Xcode and
◼
►
have used Anna's log more times than you
◼
►
care to admit now comes the really ugly
◼
►
part marketing your app tap stream is a
◼
►
company built by app makers who were
◼
►
annoyed that the big guys like Zynga and
◼
►
King had in-house marketing tools that
◼
►
gave them an unfair advantage so they
◼
►
had to change that tab stream assist you
◼
►
at every step of the marketing cycle
◼
►
start with tracking installs and
◼
►
engagement to understand where to focus
◼
►
your marketing dollars or attention tab
◼
►
stream will also let you show new users
◼
►
personalized welcome screens that speak
◼
►
directly to them based on the marketing
◼
►
campaign that brought them to your app
◼
►
these screens are fully edited and
◼
►
controlled from tab streams online
◼
►
dashboard allowing you to ask for
◼
►
newsletter signups give tips or free an
◼
►
app currency to users acquired through
◼
►
specific channels you can easily
◼
►
implement iOS 9.2 style Universal deep
◼
►
links in minutes and get to see all the
◼
►
click data associated with each link tap
◼
►
stream will even let you quickly add a
◼
►
full referral program to your app
◼
►
getting users to invite their friends
◼
►
and receive rewards for successful
◼
►
installs as developers we often bristle
◼
►
when someone mentions marketing but
◼
►
marketing doesn't have to be a dirty
◼
►
word Tap dream suite of tools is built
◼
►
for mobile developers by mobile
◼
►
developers this means they're highly
◼
►
focused on making the
◼
►
is to use platform with tools that can
◼
►
be deployed quickly you can get started
◼
►
with the SDK in a few minutes and
◼
►
implement any product within an hour
◼
►
tap stream is offering all
◼
►
under-the-radar listeners a 30-day free
◼
►
trial and this is a big one a permanent
◼
►
50% discount on their marketing Pro
◼
►
account level this includes all platform
◼
►
features and products including
◼
►
analytics deep links app invites and
◼
►
campaign Landers tap stream comm /ut are
◼
►
once again that's tap stream comm /ut
◼
►
our sign up today thanks a lot the tab
◼
►
stream for sponsoring us and all of
◼
►
relay event all right I think that one
◼
►
of the biggest things I'd like to see I
◼
►
just want to see signs of motion signs
◼
►
that Apple believes that this isn't as
◼
►
good as it could be and is willing to
◼
►
take the steps to prioritize real change
◼
►
and experimentation and improvement in
◼
►
the App Store because the App Store is
◼
►
now just under 8 years old for being
◼
►
almost 8 it really has not changed very
◼
►
much from the way it was launched there
◼
►
have been small improvements here and
◼
►
there but almost unchanged the entire
◼
►
industry Apple included have we learned
◼
►
nothing since it started you know
◼
►
obviously we've learned something so I
◼
►
think it's it's upon Apple 2 to just
◼
►
show that like they're willing to make
◼
►
changes over time as we learn what works
◼
►
what doesn't what's healthy what's not
◼
►
and so far we've seen very little of
◼
►
that so that's what I my number-one hope
◼
►
is not any any one particular change but
◼
►
just I really hope that Apple just shows
◼
►
signs of not being complacent not
◼
►
thinking that what they have now is the
◼
►
inevitable end and as good as it can get
◼
►
I agree yeah and I think seeing and I
◼
►
said nej in some ways it's any change
◼
►
like there are certainly things that
◼
►
like pet things that I would like and
◼
►
we'll certainly talk about but just
◼
►
having a sense that the App Store is
◼
►
going somewhere and that I could explain
◼
►
if I if I look towards might like my own
◼
►
personal future of like should this be
◼
►
the place that I'm making my living if
◼
►
it seems like it's going getting worse
◼
►
and worse or at least you know sort of
◼
►
has plateaued at a not great level like
◼
►
that's not an encouraging thing to look
◼
►
forward to and to seek to kind of invest
◼
►
in two versus something that seems like
◼
►
even if it's just a slow incremental
◼
►
process of getting better and better
◼
►
that would be great that would be
◼
►
encouraging like that would be in
◼
►
motivating and something that would be
◼
►
work you know make it feel more
◼
►
worthwhile to put all the you know sort
◼
►
of all the time and attention that I'm
◼
►
putting into the App Store currently
◼
►
yeah I mean that's because like I feel
◼
►
like where it is now is not in a very
◼
►
encouraging place for people like us
◼
►
you know right now like we can get by
◼
►
but it's hard and there's not a lot of
◼
►
headroom it doesn't feel like it's it's
◼
►
on its way up anymore it feels like it's
◼
►
on its way down but at least for people
◼
►
like us you know and it feels like we
◼
►
have fewer and fewer options over time
◼
►
of like how to make a decent living in
◼
►
a lot of this is just market forces at
◼
►
work here a lot of this is not within
◼
►
Apple's control to change by far the
◼
►
biggest problem in the App Store for for
◼
►
you know Indies to get by is just that
◼
►
there's a massive amount of relentless
◼
►
competition not only for exactly the
◼
►
same things that your apps do like you
◼
►
know I really support cast app there's
◼
►
already a whole bunch of podcast apps
◼
►
out there so that's problem number one
◼
►
problem number two anything I do in mine
◼
►
that that will be different or
◼
►
noteworthy other people will be able to
◼
►
you know nothing I'm not like I don't
◼
►
have any kind of magical abilities that
◼
►
nobody else can duplicate you know it
◼
►
anybody can do the same things I do and
◼
►
if you have an app that is popular at
◼
►
all that will happen because number
◼
►
three there are absolutely to Hans of
◼
►
developers out there they all are trying
◼
►
to make the same living out of the same
◼
►
pie and the pie is growing but so is
◼
►
that pool developers and then finally
◼
►
number four there are lots of other
◼
►
things competing for everyone's
◼
►
attention all the time on their phones
◼
►
as well so even if your app does pretty
◼
►
well against other similar apps you're
◼
►
also competing with literally everything
◼
►
else they have available on their phone
◼
►
which is everything in the consumer web
◼
►
world right now basically he's so like
◼
►
you're competing with those top grossing
◼
►
games or like instead of listening to a
◼
►
podcast they could choose to go play a
◼
►
clash or whatever you know so you you
◼
►
are competing with all of those things
◼
►
because this this is the hot place to be
◼
►
the the level of competition is just
◼
►
and ruthless yeah I mean I think I would
◼
►
sir like before the show I went and took
◼
►
a look at just trying to put quantify
◼
►
just how big the AppStore is and how
◼
►
much it's continuing to even grow and
◼
►
honestly at the end of looking at all
◼
►
this I just had tremendous sympathy for
◼
►
the poor app reviewers because right now
◼
►
in the App Store I think they're defined
◼
►
a couple of conflicting numbers but the
◼
►
number is somewhere in the ballpark of
◼
►
around 2 million apps and it seems like
◼
►
there's they're being added to the store
◼
►
at roughly two thousand a day seems to
◼
►
be the best number I could get kind of
◼
►
looking around which means that during
◼
►
this show like during 30 minutes of this
◼
►
show something like 42 apps will have
◼
►
launched and that's just new app that's
◼
►
it doesn't let even updates like the
◼
►
poor people in app review I don't even
◼
►
know how that's like how to conceive of
◼
►
the workload that those poor people must
◼
►
have even you can't release apps that
◼
►
quickly even me I mean I'm famous for
◼
►
having lots of haves and I look at this
◼
►
and it's like how like the first thing
◼
►
that I think of that Apple needs to work
◼
►
on is understanding if they're going to
◼
►
do something about that early on in the
◼
►
App Store they used to always get up on
◼
►
stage and talk about they'd be you know
◼
►
we now we have a hundred thousand apps
◼
►
now we have five hundred thousand apps
◼
►
we have a million apps like as though
◼
►
having a big number were something
◼
►
desirous and in the early stages maybe
◼
►
it was to say like you know they really
◼
►
when they were first building out the
◼
►
App Store it was an important thing to
◼
►
have lots of apps and to cover all the
◼
►
different goals and things that people
◼
►
might want to do on their phones but my
◼
►
suspicion is at this point that all
◼
►
those say 2,000 new apps every day I
◼
►
can't imagine all of them or at least
◼
►
even the majority of them are really
◼
►
adding to the platform and making it
◼
►
better and stronger and puts a
◼
►
tremendous load I'm sure on the app
◼
►
review team and so it means that like
◼
►
you and I when we submit a bug fix
◼
►
updates say like you know we have
◼
►
something some problem in our half we
◼
►
submit it we have to wait at least a
◼
►
week to get it reviewed and out into the
◼
►
store and I can't imagine so I don't
◼
►
imagine some of that is coming from just
◼
►
the sheer volume of junk and like that's
◼
►
say 2000 is the right number it's like
◼
►
2008 apps are being new maps are being
◼
►
approved like how many what's the number
◼
►
of apps that are getting rejected it's
◼
►
just got it like there's got to be
◼
►
things that Apple can do on that end and
◼
►
I don't know if it's changing the review
◼
►
guidelines making it so that there's
◼
►
some kind of extra barriers to actually
◼
►
submitting apps to try and make it you
◼
►
know or being just sort of harsher
◼
►
in-app review and having higher
◼
►
standards understood from more editorial
◼
►
opinionated side to make it so that
◼
►
people get the answer so very quickly
◼
►
you would expect that if the process of
◼
►
just sort of putting sort of knock or
◼
►
not high-level apps into the App Store
◼
►
became unsuccessful after a while people
◼
►
would stop doing that it would be a
◼
►
waste of time and not really worth the
◼
►
effort or something but if that's so
◼
►
risky though like any anything they do
◼
►
to try to make subjective judgments I
◼
►
feel like is is just asking for trouble
◼
►
because I mean they already have a lot
◼
►
of these things now and they do often
◼
►
get crap for making a bad decision
◼
►
usually usually warranted anything they
◼
►
do to try to sell like okay well now
◼
►
your app doesn't have to just follow
◼
►
these rules it also has to be like
◼
►
worthy a little bit to some degree even
◼
►
if it's just a minor degree this has to
◼
►
be like worthy of being included in the
◼
►
store it has to have value to somebody
◼
►
and they already define that minimum
◼
►
functionality rule which is you know
◼
►
vague and that just refers to a level of
◼
►
functionality what if there was also a
◼
►
level of minimum quality again that
◼
►
there have been rules that are kind of
◼
►
eluded this and the guidelines since the
◼
►
beginning but they haven't really been
◼
►
enforced very much the problem though is
◼
►
that this isn't just like Phil Schiller
◼
►
making those decisions this is probably
◼
►
hundreds of employees in a preview
◼
►
whoo-hoo all have to be making the
◼
►
decisions constantly they're not gonna
◼
►
be able to kick every one of them up to
◼
►
a manager for approval so you're gonna
◼
►
have to have to come up with rules that
◼
►
can be consistently enforced with a with
◼
►
a large staff the more room for
◼
►
subjectivity there is the harder it is
◼
►
to achieve consistency and they already
◼
►
have issues with this anything they do
◼
►
to make the rules to basically raise the
◼
►
bar of their minimum quality standards
◼
►
they're gonna get so many more
◼
►
problematic rejections
◼
►
so much more bad press about problematic
◼
►
rejections and they're gonna have people
◼
►
like us complaining so it's it's a hard
◼
►
balance to strike I don't think they've
◼
►
struck the right balance yet you know
◼
►
certainly raising the bar is is
◼
►
oh sure yeah I mean and I look at that
◼
►
and it's like I don't and no Envy how
◼
►
they would make the decision but it
◼
►
seems like it's either you have to
◼
►
take the approach of like the Google
◼
►
Playstore like the bar is like is this
◼
►
basically functional and not malware
◼
►
kind of at least conceptually I mean I'm
◼
►
not a Google Play expert but the app
◼
►
review process there is much more
◼
►
streamlined and straightforward as it
◼
►
says best I understand it where you have
◼
►
very lowest low bars and you know you
◼
►
approach the sort of problem almost more
◼
►
on the like on the demand side rather
◼
►
than the supply side like you just let
◼
►
anybody who wants to have an app be in
◼
►
the store if you do that you just need
◼
►
to build the store itself like the
◼
►
front-end into that such that users can
◼
►
very easily and quickly get away from
◼
►
things that aren't great and only and
◼
►
are driven towards things that are good
◼
►
because I think you could probably say
◼
►
like the best the ultimate goal of the
◼
►
app store like if you had to try and
◼
►
boil it down is that any time a customer
◼
►
downloads an app they're getting a good
◼
►
experience like that would be seeing a
◼
►
reasonable goal for what the app store
◼
►
is trying to do that a user says I have
◼
►
a need or I want to be amused or
◼
►
entertained or whatever it is and they
◼
►
go to the App Store now the things that
◼
►
they find there are going to give them a
◼
►
positive experience and you know there's
◼
►
a lot of things that the Apple could do
◼
►
for maybe on the editorial side to
◼
►
dramatically you know improve that
◼
►
structure where right now you know of
◼
►
the in the App Store app like there's
◼
►
the featured area the top charts area
◼
►
and the explore area the featured area
◼
►
they certainly I think they do a pretty
◼
►
good job like there are very rarely
◼
►
things in that first tab of the App
◼
►
Store that I look at and I see and that
◼
►
I'm like if someone downloaded that that
◼
►
they're gonna have a bad experience if
◼
►
the in the top charts area it's starts
◼
►
to get a lot more questionable and
◼
►
there's a little bit of like cell
◼
►
filtering of that that obviously people
◼
►
in order to get beyond one of those
◼
►
lists lots of people had to have they
◼
►
thought that your app was good but it
◼
►
starts to get more questionable and then
◼
►
you get into the Explorer tab like that
◼
►
poor third tab in the App Store app
◼
►
which has been three or four different
◼
►
things over the last eight years and
◼
►
just feels like it's always turning over
◼
►
and it never quite finds its way but you
◼
►
know like that's the place that you will
◼
►
start to very quickly kind of get into
◼
►
areas where it's the quality or at least
◼
►
the the robustness of those apps or it
◼
►
becomes more and more problematic as you
◼
►
maybe if apical can't fix it on there
◼
►
like on the review side maybe it's just
◼
►
let's just focus on editorial its staff
◼
►
up dramatically really go through the
◼
►
app store and it's like if we think
◼
►
these apps aren't good like we're you
◼
►
know maybe it's like we just flag them
◼
►
as such and we say like you know this is
◼
►
a bee app and it's not going to show up
◼
►
into certain places or it's going to be
◼
►
very be prioritized and the way that
◼
►
people can find it but it's still there
◼
►
like I don't know is that better I hope
◼
►
they would do something like that behind
◼
►
the scenes though I figured they
◼
►
probably aren't but if they did it would
◼
►
probably not be wise for us to know
◼
►
about that because I think that would
◼
►
cause issues you know ultimately what we
◼
►
what we want Apple to do is to make it
◼
►
easier for apps like ours to to be
◼
►
successful and and to be found by people
◼
►
in the app store but it's worth
◼
►
challenging the assumption that our abs
◼
►
are better you know like it likes sure
◼
►
if you look at what's actually in the
◼
►
App Store and if you look at that top
◼
►
grossing list and you see what succeeds
◼
►
it's probably hard for Apple look at
◼
►
that and think they have to do anything
◼
►
differently than what they're doing now
◼
►
in in like content choosing or or or
◼
►
steering the rules in such a way to
◼
►
encourage or discourage different types
◼
►
of apps than what they're getting now
◼
►
because what they're doing now is
◼
►
working very well just not people like
◼
►
us but it's working very well for some
◼
►
people and it's working very well it by
◼
►
many metrics for apples customers in the
◼
►
way that people are downloading a bunch
◼
►
of apps they are playing these games and
◼
►
putting their coins in it does work for
◼
►
a lot of people now just not us so is
◼
►
that really a problem like do you think
◼
►
Apple sees it as a problem and do you
◼
►
think it actually is a problem it's a
◼
►
tough question it's really hard to
◼
►
separate obviously the my own personal
◼
►
views and business from like sort of
◼
►
just like the more objective if this was
◼
►
not what I did and I was just a you know
◼
►
someone who just went to the Apple store
◼
►
bought an iPhone and opened up the App
◼
►
Store like and it is definitely a trap
◼
►
and I think you're sort of pointing good
◼
►
right to point it out is of the in these
◼
►
types of discussions in our community
◼
►
that you can very easily slip into the
◼
►
very subjective just like indie apps are
◼
►
better kind of a mindset and you end up
◼
►
with like well it's like if there's not
◼
►
a vibrant independent community of app
◼
►
of app makers that some
◼
►
like the world is a sad and terrible
◼
►
place and you know and you could argue
◼
►
in some ways it's like you know smaller
◼
►
companies tend to take bigger risks and
◼
►
so more innovation happens or those
◼
►
types of kind of more justifications in
◼
►
some ways what I hope is that if Apple
◼
►
is happy with the majority of sort of
◼
►
successful businesses in the App Store
◼
►
or a lot of the money for the App Store
◼
►
whatever coming from those types of
◼
►
games and being or even just being game
◼
►
focused in general that the majority si
◼
►
gets its games and big companies like
◼
►
Thea in the top ten grossing apps there
◼
►
are other things that aren't games
◼
►
there's things like Spotify or like
◼
►
services like that big companies the
◼
►
reality may be it's like and like the
◼
►
hard thing to say to myself is maybe
◼
►
that's fine with Apple and they're
◼
►
totally cool with that and in some ways
◼
►
their actions thus far are ready to
◼
►
indicate that they are and there's the
◼
►
you know the introspection I'm saying
◼
►
like if that's the reality it's like am
◼
►
I just in the wrong place at this point
◼
►
it's like it's not something that I
◼
►
really want to make a change about I'm
◼
►
not saying like oh I want to get out of
◼
►
the App Store but it's like and I look
◼
►
at that I'm like maybe at some point I
◼
►
will have to though because it would
◼
►
just sort of not be economically viable
◼
►
to do what I do and that would make me
◼
►
sad but yeah like it's it's not up to me
◼
►
to decide what goes into the App Store
◼
►
or what apps should you know should the
◼
►
App Store be geared around making viable
◼
►
obviously I'd like for it to be more
◼
►
viable for me and I think you could make
◼
►
a reasonable argument that it's
◼
►
important to have some base level of the
◼
►
smaller developers like us kind of
◼
►
filling in cracks and pushing boundaries
◼
►
and when new things come out you know
◼
►
it's like well I've made my business in
◼
►
a lot of ways about watching Apple and
◼
►
how they push your new technology out in
◼
►
there and their phones or in the in iOS
◼
►
looking for new opportunities and as
◼
►
soon as I can jumping on those and being
◼
►
able to take advantage of being smaller
◼
►
and being able to make those kinds of
◼
►
decisions that maybe bigger companies
◼
►
and that seems like a good thing but
◼
►
it's certainly for my it's like it's
◼
►
very selfish and self-centred to say
◼
►
like if the App Store doesn't make my
◼
►
business model work then you know it's
◼
►
not good the way that the App Store
◼
►
bothers me now that with like what
◼
►
succeeds and what doesn't you know not
◼
►
only from from just like a you know an
◼
►
obvious like envy that those aren't my
◼
►
grossing position but what bothers me
◼
►
that I think might be relevant here to
◼
►
Apple and to the users is that the the
◼
►
apps that succeed today I think make the
◼
►
iPhone look a bit like a cheap flea
◼
►
market it is not it is not like a high a
◼
►
high fashion or a high quality branding
◼
►
angle that we see now today with like
◼
►
all these you know basically like casino
◼
►
games that isn't there not this is not
◼
►
like a classy great experience for a lot
◼
►
of people and it doesn't it doesn't make
◼
►
Apple's products look good to know that
◼
►
most people are using them most of the
◼
►
time to like you know throw coins into
◼
►
and into a psychologically abusive game
◼
►
that their friends and family made them
◼
►
like obligated to play like I don't know
◼
►
it and you know obviously people you
◼
►
know it's a little bit snobby to me to
◼
►
say because like obviously a lot of
◼
►
people do enjoy these games and are
◼
►
perfectly fine with that and I and I
◼
►
don't want to diminish their enjoyment
◼
►
of those but do you think from Apple's
◼
►
point of view do you think that's really
◼
►
what they want the iPhone to to be in
◼
►
practice like do they do they care and
◼
►
does that really fit the way they want
◼
►
to brand this device I wouldn't think so
◼
►
like I mean this is the funny thing of
◼
►
you know I was in a fan of Apple before
◼
►
I was an Apple developer like I and the
◼
►
thing that I think is so it's like that
◼
►
a fundamental level when I try and think
◼
►
of the things that I associate with
◼
►
Apple and with you know sort of thick
◼
►
they're brand more generally is that
◼
►
there's a certain amount of trying to be
◼
►
more like it's more aspirational in the
◼
►
sense of they're trying to make it
◼
►
better they're not just trying to make
◼
►
like the they're not trying to just make
◼
►
a basic works is sufficient is fine
◼
►
phone like they're trying to make the
◼
►
best of anything and in most of the
◼
►
things that they do that whether or not
◼
►
they hit it or not is a whole other
◼
►
question but you know their goal their
◼
►
mission is to make the best and to have
◼
►
you know when you go into an Apple store
◼
►
that you always come out with a good
◼
►
experience like it's not they're not
◼
►
trying to be mediocre or sufficient
◼
►
they're always trying to be better and
◼
►
if you would apply that kind of mindset
◼
►
imagine you'd end up with a different
◼
►
app store you'd imagine if you know it's
◼
►
like if they're willing to take that
◼
►
risk of you know they don't make the
◼
►
hundreds of different very variations of
◼
►
the iPhone they try and make one that's
◼
►
really really good and is the best and
◼
►
in the same way it's like they rather
◼
►
than trying to have all the different
◼
►
you know it's like you go into an Apple
◼
►
store it doesn't feel like going into
◼
►
Walmart it's like the App Store is much
◼
►
more like going into Walmart or
◼
►
or where you're yeah but it's that kind
◼
►
of a feeling right it's like you go in
◼
►
and you see a charger whatever it's you
◼
►
know some some iPhone accessory on the
◼
►
wall of an Apple store and you expect
◼
►
that that is going to be good Veit you
◼
►
know it meets a certain basic level of
◼
►
criteria and versus if you go into a you
◼
►
know the Walmart er you go into Amazon
◼
►
and you're presented with probably 10
◼
►
times the number of choices you have a
◼
►
much harder to you know decision and
◼
►
you're in a harder position to make that
◼
►
choice because they haven't curated it
◼
►
for you they haven't looked at it and
◼
►
said we think these are the best or
◼
►
these are the ones that you should try
◼
►
and I would hope if they did the same
◼
►
kind of mindset on to the App Store that
◼
►
you could end up with a better
◼
►
experience in a better place like
◼
►
overall and one that would fit I think
◼
►
students like the Apple brand better you
◼
►
know like the Google Play Store I think
◼
►
makes sense for Google like that sort of
◼
►
they're things like we you know we index
◼
►
all the information everywhere like
◼
►
they're sort of mindset around having
◼
►
the store that isn't strongly curated in
◼
►
the same way like it seems like that
◼
►
would be a better fit potentially but an
◼
►
Apple could potentially take the other
◼
►
to take the other extreme and say like
◼
►
you know what this is where we're gonna
◼
►
go and I think that would fit for them
◼
►
and you know ultimately obviously I
◼
►
would like that I think I would - I mean
◼
►
like I was getting on a plane recently
◼
►
and I wanted to download a whole bunch
◼
►
of like new good games and seeing what
◼
►
was actually successful in the top
◼
►
charts and and just trying just trying
◼
►
to find good games for myself to play on
◼
►
the plane like if nothing else the App
◼
►
Store should have tons of good games
◼
►
right but it honestly had a lot of
◼
►
trouble finding any that had any kind of
◼
►
depth whatsoever most of them are like
◼
►
you know really like stupid simple like
◼
►
shallow things that like you play it for
◼
►
10 seconds like oh that's all it is okay
◼
►
like it was actually really hard to find
◼
►
good stuff I I feel like I feel like we
◼
►
need better stuff in the App Store and
◼
►
to think about how they can how they can
◼
►
get better stuff in there how they can
◼
►
incentivize and sustain the development
◼
►
of better apps not just more apps yeah
◼
►
and I think there's some big problems
◼
►
here around like it's like the old what
◼
►
they caught the broken window problem
◼
►
mm-hmm you know where you have if you're
◼
►
in a neighborhood if you had a house
◼
►
that has you know has derelict and has
◼
►
some broken windows in it like it starts
◼
►
it has it has this different other thing
◼
►
it's like oh it starts to affect things
◼
►
that even aren't just that one house
◼
►
it's like if the bar and the expectation
◼
►
for going to the App Store isn't high
◼
►
enough it's gonna have knock-on effects
◼
►
to lots of other apps and other people
◼
►
like you end up with customers who have
◼
►
different have different expectations
◼
►
they'll look at the App Store and say I
◼
►
you know it's like you're more tense
◼
►
like things like I think about like
◼
►
their discussion last week or about
◼
►
pricing where it's harder in some ways
◼
►
to make a set into to convince someone
◼
►
to have a paid a friend app and to
◼
►
download it and in some of that I could
◼
►
imagine he's coming from a place of a
◼
►
there's a tremendous competition which
◼
►
is I've sort of always it's gonna have a
◼
►
downward pressure on pricing but also
◼
►
like if you don't have good expectations
◼
►
that what you're downloading is going to
◼
►
be good is going to be worth it because
◼
►
you've been burned before like that's
◼
►
going to discourage you from going in
◼
►
going ahead and downloading other apps
◼
►
and paying for them upfront and so you
◼
►
end up with you know more free apps and
◼
►
if your app is free then you have
◼
►
different like you enter this there's
◼
►
kind of vicious cycle because the amount
◼
►
of time that you're able you sort of
◼
►
sort of can justify putting into
◼
►
something if you expect to only be able
◼
►
to make money back from it you know
◼
►
either from consumable and a purchase or
◼
►
even just like if you're just putting it
◼
►
out with ads in it like you're sort of
◼
►
the value of each customer to you and
◼
►
for the the downside of having a
◼
►
customer have a bad experience like it
◼
►
just continues to shrink down in kind of
◼
►
this negative cycle exactly all right
◼
►
well we're out of time today I think
◼
►
we're gonna continue this discussion
◼
►
next week and with maybe some specific
◼
►
suggestions on like how Apple can really
◼
►
make the App Store better specific areas
◼
►
that might be worth experimenting with
◼
►
so thanks a lot for listening
◼
►
we will talk to you next week bye