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Under the Radar

Under the Radar 113: Grading the App Store in 2017

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0:00:00welcome to under the radar a show about

0:00:02independent iOS app development I'm

0:00:04Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

0:00:06the radar is never longer than 30

0:00:08minutes so let's get started so in the

0:00:10grand tradition of early January podcast

0:00:12episodes we decided it would be nice to

0:00:14kind of do a 20-17 in review episode and

0:00:18to look over some of the things that

0:00:20happen in 2017 that were relevant to iOS

0:00:22developers and then kind of our

0:00:24perspective so far on how those are

0:00:27going or how those have changed things

0:00:28so far and kind of where we see things

0:00:30going and I wanted to start out you know

0:00:33and first of all just a brief opening

0:00:34statement here they've been killing it

0:00:37ever since Phil took over like there

0:00:39have been so there's been section a

0:00:42pleasant and dramatically improved rate

0:00:46of progress in the App Store ever since

0:00:49they at like a year and a half ago

0:00:51basically authority of it transferred to

0:00:54Phil Schiller and I don't know what

0:00:56other changes happened at that time but

0:00:57there's there's a pretty clear trend

0:00:59that like since that time things have

0:01:02gotten significantly better and

0:01:04significantly faster that and then the

0:01:06progress that used to happen before that

0:01:08which was pretty minimal so big thumbs

0:01:10up to Phil and whoever else was involved

0:01:12with that so one of the big changes that

0:01:16has happened this past year too is

0:01:20greatly broadening subscription pricing

0:01:23for apps it started out in actually in

0:01:252016 in in in June right before the BTC

0:01:30when they announced that more apps would

0:01:32be allowed to use subscriptions and that

0:01:34the for from years - onward of a

0:01:38subscription you would get 85% instead

0:01:39of 70% of the Commission so while that

0:01:42was the year before the effects of that

0:01:44I think have been felt more in 2017 and

0:01:46especially because starting in June of

0:01:492017 we got our raise we got those first

0:01:52round of 85 percent renewals and for me

0:01:56that that those started in September I

0:01:58think or October because that's it that

0:02:00was like the one year anniversary of me

0:02:01launching my auto renewing plan for

0:02:03overcast but I think subscriptions have

0:02:08you know there have been there's been a

0:02:10lot of developer wish lists over the

0:02:12years that have included thing

0:02:13like free trial and you know and paid

0:02:17upgrades and things like that that that

0:02:19are basically the old ways of monetizing

0:02:21software the ways that that that we

0:02:22pretty much always had as many companies

0:02:25still use on PC and Mac and we don't

0:02:29have those yet and I'm not sure we ever

0:02:32will have those on iOS but with all the

0:02:35changes to subscriptions and some of the

0:02:37new features that were added for things

0:02:39like free trials of the subscriptions

0:02:41and different flexibility and different

0:02:43price tiers and everything else I think

0:02:45we've come very close to those and it's

0:02:47not nearly as easy as it was before but

0:02:50you can now simulate free trials in a

0:02:54few different ways that that people are

0:02:56are seemingly doing with success so that

0:02:59that's a pretty big thing and also just

0:03:02by expanding subscriptions so much there

0:03:05are so many more business models that

0:03:07that have become possible that while it

0:03:10is still not like trivially easy to make

0:03:13money in the App Store in a sustainable

0:03:14way we have more options than we've ever

0:03:17had before

0:03:17and I feel like now if you can't find

0:03:20something if you can't find some way to

0:03:23monetize your app that people actually

0:03:25want then I don't think you're looking

0:03:27hard enough so you know thumbs up for

0:03:30all this all the subscription changes

0:03:32and the the rules around subscriptions

0:03:35becoming loosened in some ways for

0:03:37really giving us way more options for

0:03:40how we monetize our apps and having the

0:03:4385 percent on the years 2 and above is a

0:03:47pretty nice raise also yeah I think 2 is

0:03:49also nice to see that but and this is to

0:03:52earlier point about that now that it

0:03:55seems like the changes that are being

0:03:57made into these types of business model

0:03:59changes or more policy changes they're

0:04:02not in a situation where what they just

0:04:04sort of like one and done like they felt

0:04:06like oh there's a problem with

0:04:07subscriptions let's change something and

0:04:09then now it's fine they what's nice to

0:04:11see I think now is any things continue

0:04:13to get better over time like in the you

0:04:16know towards the end of 2017 we got

0:04:18introductory pricing as a new option in

0:04:22subscriptions it's like now this is new

0:04:24on bidding you know there's this new

0:04:25mode there's this new tool and

0:04:27I like that with something like so you

0:04:30know business models with subscriptions

0:04:31in this case it's nice to see that

0:04:34continue to develop and that it's Reno

0:04:36it's reasonable to imagine in that you

0:04:38know 2018 we'll continue that process

0:04:41that Apple will continue to expand both

0:04:43sort of the types of subscriptions that

0:04:45are possible and some of the mechanisms

0:04:48mechanically with that like I know we

0:04:50also I think at Dover DC last year we

0:04:53got a bunch of new like web hooks I

0:04:55believe for being able to you know do

0:04:57validation and understanding around a

0:05:00user state in a subscription so all

0:05:02these types of things that are you know

0:05:04they just make that better and better

0:05:06and I love to see like irrespective of

0:05:09Eros whether in the individual you know

0:05:10sis it the individual details are

0:05:13important or useful have panned out

0:05:14wonderfully what is most important I

0:05:16think is that this is an area that Apple

0:05:18is clearly continuing to enhance over

0:05:20time and it seems generally speaking to

0:05:23be the area that they are putting the

0:05:26most effort behind in their in their

0:05:29kind of in a lot of their development

0:05:31and their allocation of resources and

0:05:33attention that they are making

0:05:34subscriptions a better and better way to

0:05:37monetize your apps and you know if

0:05:40that's true and that's sort of where

0:05:41they're pushing then it kind of makes

0:05:42make sense to sort of think about it

0:05:45like I currently don't use any and I

0:05:46know you do but it's certainly something

0:05:48that I'm aware of because anytime that

0:05:50it seems like you know things keep

0:05:52changing in a direction it's like hmm

0:05:54that's interesting you know maybe I need

0:05:56to be thinking thoughts will of a way to

0:05:58take advantage of that because clearly

0:06:00it's something that is you know

0:06:02seemingly just getting better and better

0:06:03of a deal and more more flexible of an

0:06:07option over time also when subscriptions

0:06:09launched we a lot of people had concerns

0:06:13about whether App Store customers would

0:06:17feel quote subscription fatigue this is

0:06:20the idea that like well one or two apps

0:06:23can charge prescriptions but then but

0:06:25soon all the apps will be charging you X

0:06:28dollars a month and people will get

0:06:29tired of it and don't want that many

0:06:30subscriptions and they will stop paying

0:06:32for all of them and I don't think that

0:06:34has really happened I haven't seen any

0:06:36in just anecdotally I really haven't

0:06:38seen any signs of that

0:06:40many apps are still not charging

0:06:42subscriptions so it isn't like they all

0:06:44all of a sudden changed over and I

0:06:47haven't really heard from people who

0:06:49meaningfully have a lot of feedback from

0:06:52people saying that they won't pay their

0:06:54subscriptions because they have too many

0:06:55subscriptions like that doesn't seem to

0:06:56be happening which is good and I think

0:06:59it's it is with all these things I feel

0:07:02like there's this fundamental question

0:07:04of are you providing some service or an

0:07:07eval you to your user that exceeds the

0:07:10costs that you're asking for that

0:07:12service like at its basic level and like

0:07:15subscription fatigue I'm sure is a thing

0:07:17and it's certainly something that's

0:07:18possible but you kind of imagine a

0:07:20scenario where if someone is feeling

0:07:22that and they have that many apps that

0:07:23are providing that much value to them

0:07:25they're going to be more apt to continue

0:07:27to pay like the situation I think is

0:07:29more it's a subscription fatigue is

0:07:30perhaps a shortcut for saying you're not

0:07:34providing enough value to your user to

0:07:37be able to justify subscription pricing

0:07:39which i think is entirely reasonable and

0:07:41I mean that's in many ways the reason

0:07:43why I a lot of my apps don't have

0:07:45something like subscriptions where I

0:07:46don't feel like I have something

0:07:48tangible enough to warrant that kind of

0:07:51direct action on an ongoing sustained

0:07:53basis but other apps do and you know it

0:07:58doesn't seem like that's actually a

0:07:59problem in practice that if you provide

0:08:01a service that has a tangible value

0:08:03going forward that charging a

0:08:05subscription for it is a reasonable

0:08:07thing and fair enough like not everybody

0:08:08is going to take advantage of that and I

0:08:11think there is a certain element of

0:08:13getting used to the mindset that not all

0:08:16of your customers are going to be paying

0:08:18customers is something that is certainly

0:08:20a very important thing to understand and

0:08:22just be comfortable with that there are

0:08:23going to be people who use your

0:08:24application and you never really

0:08:26directly receive any monetary value from

0:08:29that but like that's okay because as

0:08:31long as you have a reasonable proportion

0:08:33of users that do get enough value to be

0:08:35motivated to do that you know you'll be

0:08:37okay in the end

0:08:38so moving on one of the other big

0:08:41changes that was announced early this

0:08:42year is that developers got the ability

0:08:46to respond to App Store reviews and this

0:08:50was long-awaited I think the Google Play

0:08:53Store

0:08:54had it like since the beginning or since

0:08:55early on and so iOS iOS developers were

0:08:57clamoring for this for years so we

0:08:59finally got the ability to respond

0:09:02publicly to user reviews in the App

0:09:04Store how has that been going for you um

0:09:07I think it's one of these things that I

0:09:09am glad that it's there

0:09:11that I think overall like as with all

0:09:13the stuff like I love that it's a tool

0:09:15that is now available the impact of it I

0:09:18think is more measured and some of that

0:09:21is dealing with also some changes to the

0:09:23App Store that I think we're gonna talk

0:09:25about later but the way the new app

0:09:27store is set up the reviews like textual

0:09:30reviews I think are less emphasized than

0:09:32they used to be in the sense that

0:09:35there's really you see one review and

0:09:37it's kind of hard to even understand

0:09:39that there's even more than one review

0:09:41so assuming that you're like your main

0:09:43review is a positive one the other is

0:09:47kind of disappear into the sort of

0:09:49disappear into the ether behind it and

0:09:51so it's less important in that regard

0:09:53because it you know but the reason why I

0:09:56think it was initially very useful is

0:09:59that if you you know there was a huge

0:10:01whole section of your App Store page

0:10:03that was about reviews and if someone

0:10:05was you know was asking a question or

0:10:08talking badly about your app in a way

0:10:10that wasn't true or accurate or that you

0:10:13could help with even you know the in

0:10:14just from a positive customer service

0:10:16perspective now it's good to be able to

0:10:18respond to that like that was important

0:10:19it's I would say it's less important now

0:10:21and I view it now it's just another in

0:10:24some ways it's just another support

0:10:25venue you know that else you know people

0:10:27email me and then some people leave

0:10:28reviews and it's nice to be able to

0:10:31reach out to them and you know it avoids

0:10:34that situation where someone was

0:10:35complaining about something like oh man

0:10:37I wish this app it did this or you know

0:10:39it when I do this this is you know it

0:10:41doesn't seem to work right and being

0:10:42able to reach out to that person and

0:10:44correct that but it's much more of a

0:10:46customer service thing than it was a

0:10:47marketing thing I think initially so

0:10:49like I'm glad it's there it's useful but

0:10:52I don't think it had a major impact in a

0:10:55way that it may have if they hadn't

0:10:57redesigned the App Store yeah I I'm in

0:10:59complete agreement I mean it like the

0:11:00when you it turns out like the in

0:11:03practice the reading of the reviews with

0:11:05these responses like I loved how Mike

0:11:07put it on connected this past week here

0:11:10on relay FM they were doing the year

0:11:12review if like kind of just all Apple

0:11:13tech news and and they mentioned this

0:11:16and Mike said it's it's kind of like

0:11:17reading somebody's email chain it's like

0:11:19yeah like because in practice you used

0:11:21to like one person's you know it's

0:11:22talking about some problem and then you

0:11:24see like a support person saying we're

0:11:26sorry you've had this problem please

0:11:27contact us and we'll help you resolve it

0:11:29like it's it's it's like resolve it's

0:11:31like basically reading somebody's

0:11:32support email like in public it's kind

0:11:34of weird

0:11:35as a reader and and as a developer I

0:11:38I tried responding to reviews for a

0:11:41little while but found it mostly not

0:11:44worth doing and I think you nailed it

0:11:47with like one of the biggest reasons is

0:11:49the new App Store design change where

0:11:51reviews written reviews are so sidelined

0:11:55in the new App Store layout that they

0:11:57barely matter at all anymore and frankly

0:12:00I think that's all for the better

0:12:01because you know for four years I think

0:12:04it's been apparent that your your star

0:12:07average mattered way more than what any

0:12:10particular written review said and

0:12:12there's so many problems with written

0:12:15reviews it's just it's it's it's a

0:12:17system that is so deeply broken and

0:12:20dysfunctional and always has been so the

0:12:23ideal solution would be to get rid of

0:12:25star ratings and reviews altogether and

0:12:27replace it with like a thumbs-up

0:12:29thumbs-down kind of thing that way you

0:12:30remove the the problem of different star

0:12:34levels meaning different things to

0:12:36different people like what does it mean

0:12:39like what does it mean for for me to

0:12:41write four stars versus five stars and

0:12:43is that the same thing that you

0:12:44distinguish between four stars and five

0:12:45stars like it that whole system is

0:12:47dysfunctional but the way they've done

0:12:48it now I think is a significant

0:12:50improvement where it is way less

0:12:53emphasized you hardly see any written

0:12:56reviews unless you really try to seek

0:12:57them out and even then you're likely to

0:12:59only read the first one and maybe two if

0:13:01if you really get into it but it's so

0:13:03cumbersome to actually scan through

0:13:06written reviews that they might as well

0:13:08not even be there which also means that

0:13:11it's not really worth responding to most

0:13:12of them it's you know unless unless

0:13:15you're the kind of developer who I

0:13:16greatly respect you who you know goes

0:13:19through and answers every single person

0:13:21who has anything to say to you that's

0:13:23wonderful I don't have time for that I

0:13:25can't do that I'd like if you have staff

0:13:27or if you're so motivated that you can

0:13:29do that awesome this is one more channel

0:13:31for you to do that in but for people who

0:13:33don't have the time to respond to every

0:13:36it's every single thing this like the

0:13:39the written reviews and being able to

0:13:42respond to written reviews I think

0:13:44should be treated the same way you treat

0:13:45support email or tweets which is if you

0:13:47can respond to them all cool if not this

0:13:50is no different than those and you don't

0:13:51need to worry about it and with the new

0:13:52app store changes it's less important

0:13:55than ever yeah and I think probably that

0:13:57the biggest change that they made which

0:13:59was a 20-17 change is not resetting

0:14:01reviews on updates now right being an

0:14:06optional sure making an optional making

0:14:08that you in general you can choose to do

0:14:11it and you would opt univis obviously

0:14:12only do it when it would made sense to

0:14:14do it

0:14:15that in general it's kind of changed the

0:14:18I don't know if it's right words it's a

0:14:20bit almost like app reviews were this

0:14:21weird kind of vague currency before

0:14:23we're like you as a developer you're

0:14:25trying to build up this number as

0:14:29quickly as you can

0:14:31for every updates you do so that you can

0:14:33appear good in the store and continue to

0:14:35you know grow and look like you're a

0:14:37good app that's worth downloading but

0:14:39this change I think had a I mean I've

0:14:41been it's probably if I had to pick my

0:14:43favorite change out of everything in

0:14:452017 it's probably that mostly because

0:14:48it's changed the way that I can can like

0:14:50think about my development cycle and

0:14:52doing small updates are now like fine it

0:14:58doesn't really matter like I can if I if

0:15:00I had the time and ability I could

0:15:01update my app you know once a week and

0:15:03it would be fine it wouldn't have this

0:15:04weird tension that I had before where

0:15:07every time I updated the app I knew that

0:15:09I had to kind of like rebuild all this

0:15:11and so things like responding to reviews

0:15:13would have been more important because

0:15:14if someone you know had you've given it

0:15:17a one-star and I respond to them and

0:15:18they changed their one start to a

0:15:19five-star that that difference was very

0:15:22more measured whereas now if you've you

0:15:26know it's like either if you use the new

0:15:27ratings prompt system which also came in

0:15:292017 or yep you just gradually build up

0:15:32your reviews over time

0:15:34once you have a certain number of

0:15:35reviews you can just keep them and

0:15:38assuming that you don't massively mess

0:15:40up and do something to jeopardize it you

0:15:42can maintain a good star rating that

0:15:45makes you look good in the App Store and

0:15:46it's generally positive going forward

0:15:48and you have to worry less about your

0:15:51App Store reviews in that way and I mean

0:15:53that's basically what I did for a lot of

0:15:55them firm my main apps is I don't love

0:15:58the ratings prompt system it's certainly

0:16:00it's very effective but I is we've

0:16:03talked about many times I don't love

0:16:04interrupting customers and so on but

0:16:06what I kind of love about is that plus

0:16:09non resetting reviews is I just set up

0:16:11my app so that I you know I was tried to

0:16:14be very respectful but when I would do

0:16:15it that it was only at the end it's like

0:16:17you've clearly been in the app for a

0:16:18while and you're returning from

0:16:19finishing an operation rather than

0:16:21starting an operation and I sort of set

0:16:24the app up such that it only prompts

0:16:27until I had a certain number of who

0:16:28views and then since then it's just

0:16:30turned off and I haven't done it so it's

0:16:32like there was a two-week period or one

0:16:34week period maybe even where like I was

0:16:36asking people for reviews on a

0:16:37semi-regular basis and that built up

0:16:39enough reviews that now the app looks

0:16:41great in the store and I can just turn

0:16:43that off and in some ways like as long

0:16:44as I keep you know keep shipping quality

0:16:46updates and I'm not going to end up with

0:16:48this big flood of one stars like the app

0:16:50review system is not something that I

0:16:53have to concern myself with which I love

0:16:55and I can just kind of keep moving

0:16:56making that better and better and it

0:16:58doesn't have this weird external effect

0:17:00that I'm trying to counteract and that's

0:17:02how it always should have been like the

0:17:03written reviews medes made like the

0:17:06loudest most upset people it made their

0:17:11review count for more than it should

0:17:13have counted for and now that now that

0:17:15we have a larger number of reviews that

0:17:17persist between between updates and that

0:17:21we'd have this this way to get quick

0:17:22star ratings from people who don't who

0:17:24aren't upset enough to write a full

0:17:27review like they just like your app and

0:17:28just use it quietly like they're likely

0:17:30you know it the silent approving

0:17:31majority their opinion now matters more

0:17:34and and I think that's great for

0:17:36everybody because it more fairly

0:17:38represents how people actually hope

0:17:41you'll actually think of your app rather

0:17:42than just focusing on the few people who

0:17:44were most angry enough to write reviews

0:17:47and and one thing that's kind of funny

0:17:49is I feel like it's made me less as a

0:17:53customer I'm cared less about the star

0:17:56rating that I used to because it seems

0:17:59like every app has a couple thousand

0:18:00reviews and it's four or five stars like

0:18:03that's just sort of like that that's

0:18:05like the baseline now and so it makes it

0:18:08as if an app doesn't have that I'm

0:18:10almost like I'm actively worried like

0:18:12something is really weird with this app

0:18:13if it's having really bad star rating

0:18:15because they have so many more tools

0:18:17they don't have to reset them every time

0:18:18and rebuild that audience it's like it's

0:18:20now it's just this thing that you have

0:18:21and so it's like it's nice to it in some

0:18:26ways that's nice in some ways that's

0:18:27that's not so nice but I do love that I

0:18:28just it's a thing that I care I have to

0:18:30carry and focus less about you know I

0:18:32don't have to actively check and

0:18:34maintain and manage the star rating of

0:18:36my apps like I used to and I appreciate

0:18:38that being able to just focus on other

0:18:40things that are much more important to

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0:19:51this show so the other thing that is

0:19:53probably big has had the biggest impact

0:19:56on us as that Kate was introduced in

0:19:582017 would probably be the

0:20:01a big App Store refresh redesign relay

0:20:05out whatever whatever you want to call

0:20:06it and the sort with that the big

0:20:09changes in the editorial process within

0:20:11the App Store where now we have in

0:20:14addition to just like a totally new kind

0:20:15of look and feel and a bunch of new

0:20:17fields where now we can have promotional

0:20:19text that's different than the

0:20:21description text and we have a subtitle

0:20:23now as in addition to just the regular

0:20:25title and the title it's got four

0:20:27shorter and we can have multiple app

0:20:29previews in the app reviews auto play

0:20:31like there's that side of things and

0:20:33then we also have the new kind of every

0:20:36day or several times a day editorial

0:20:39process that kisk sort of come along

0:20:41with it and I think and I think overall

0:20:44it's been good to me it's always like I

0:20:47mean I don't know if that's just a

0:20:49self-centered way to look at this but I

0:20:50think overall it's been a slight benefit

0:20:52that I think the design changes seemed

0:20:56to seem to work better or at least at

0:20:59the very least they they didn't have a

0:21:01negative impact and I certainly had some

0:21:02concerns that because of the a reduction

0:21:06in density in a lot of the screens that

0:21:10it would have had a negative impact but

0:21:11if anything it's had a yes and a slight

0:21:13net positive so I like that

0:21:15I think the editorial side of things

0:21:17seems really nice

0:21:18like I've been fortunate enough to be in

0:21:21a couple of the like roundups or like

0:21:23included in some of the the daily

0:21:25articles and it certainly has an impact

0:21:27and it's nice to you know have seven

0:21:30chances a week for that whereas before

0:21:33you had you know one chance a week to do

0:21:35that it was every Thursday here's the

0:21:36new set of features it's kind of nice to

0:21:38feel like we have more options and you

0:21:41know it probably proportionately means

0:21:43that the impact of any one featuring has

0:21:45gone down that read being premium having

0:21:50a substantial feature before would have

0:21:52had a resulted in more downloads but you

0:21:54can now get them more often and it seems

0:21:56like once your app is sort of in that

0:21:59world where it's on the list of being

0:22:01feat of kind of things that are being

0:22:03considered for featuring it's reasonably

0:22:05likely that your app will show up as

0:22:07they kind of cycle through the different

0:22:09things that they're trying to promote

0:22:10throughout the year so like overall I

0:22:12think the new app store is taking a bit

0:22:15of getting used

0:22:16but otherwise I like it and I think it's

0:22:19had a positive impact overall yeah I I

0:22:22was also a little wary when it launched

0:22:23of you know not just not knowing what

0:22:25kind of impact it would have and it was

0:22:27it's a it's a bunch of very major layout

0:22:30changes and so it seemed and major

0:22:32editorial changes so it seemed like it

0:22:34was likely to have a pretty wild swings

0:22:37in either way and he didn't really know

0:22:39until it locks like whether you're

0:22:40whether or benefit you or not and as far

0:22:41as I can tell I don't think it really

0:22:43has meaningfully affected overcast

0:22:46positively or negatively it seems like I

0:22:48kind of got away with a nice neutral

0:22:50outcome there but overall it does seem a

0:22:53lot more pleasant to use in a number of

0:22:55ways the information density is

0:22:56significantly lower and in some ways

0:22:58that gets in my way and feels clumsy but

0:23:01honestly it wasn't like the App Store

0:23:03layout and usability and things like

0:23:05that weren't that great in the previous

0:23:07one either so it's I think it's

0:23:08significantly better than it was and all

0:23:10the editorial changes are very welcome

0:23:12they're clearly putting a ton more

0:23:15effort into the weekly editorial stuff

0:23:18and now the daily editorial stuff on it

0:23:20one one area that this is a little bit I

0:23:23don't know of unsettling as the word but

0:23:26they they've added many ways in which

0:23:29companies with large marketing resources

0:23:32at their disposal like companies that

0:23:34can afford to have a very large

0:23:38marketing effort that coordinates with

0:23:39Apple that reaches out that supplies all

0:23:42sorts of different materials and and

0:23:43achieves all sorts of different you know

0:23:46goals and relationships and everything

0:23:46there's there is more for them to do

0:23:49there are more ways than ever for

0:23:52marketing people and marketing teams to

0:23:55help boost an app in the App Store and

0:23:58that's that's good I think those should

0:24:01exist and I think those kind of always

0:24:03did exist but now they're baby made a

0:24:04little more official but it also raises

0:24:08the the bar for independence like us for

0:24:12like how much of this marketing are we

0:24:14ever really going to do or can we afford

0:24:15to do or will we have the the tools and

0:24:17resources to do that is a little bit

0:24:20less awesome in some ways but I think a

0:24:24lot of that's just kind of an inevitable

0:24:26maturing of the App Store over time and

0:24:28we're gonna have to figure out

0:24:29operate in that environment yeah I mean

0:24:31it's an MA in many ways I think makes me

0:24:33think of search ads which is also

0:24:34something that it got enhancements in

0:24:362017 and was something that it's like

0:24:39I've just sort of gotten everyone's as

0:24:40I've gotten a sense of the cost

0:24:42associated with that it's just sort of

0:24:43the understanding that the types of APIs

0:24:45I make don't justify playing in that

0:24:48market and that means that I'm never

0:24:50going to be the thing at the top of a

0:24:53search result even if I am the top

0:24:55search result there's always going to be

0:24:56someone else who is willing to pay more

0:24:59and as a result you know that's just

0:25:02sort of where the best I can hope for a

0:25:04second place and in general so far

0:25:06that's been fine

0:25:08but it is certainly a bit frustrating

0:25:09that it's you know the bet that there's

0:25:12a there's an heart of the App Store that

0:25:14is just not viable for me to take

0:25:16advantage of that you know would

0:25:18increase my visibility and you know

0:25:20maybe that's certainly I see that as my

0:25:22problem it's not like it's a problem for

0:25:23Fred doing search ads like I'm not I

0:25:25think they they're useful and they're

0:25:27I'm glad they exist I think overall I if

0:25:31they'd went away if I decided that they

0:25:33were you know that they decided they

0:25:35didn't want search ads anymore I

0:25:36wouldn't be sad but it certainly is one

0:25:40of the only kind of Dan net downside of

0:25:42kind of the way that this you know the

0:25:44App Store changed and I think it the App

0:25:46Store changes in in fact if anything in

0:25:49Iowa in in iOS 11 made the searches this

0:25:54dad's even bigger and slightly more

0:25:55prominent just because of the way they

0:25:57changed the layouts of everything so

0:25:59that's just one of those you know it's

0:26:01just like one of those things but it is

0:26:05it take a net win but in that area is

0:26:08probably a much more marginal one for me

0:26:10all right so to wrap this up if you can

0:26:12pick like one number one wishlist item

0:26:15for the App Store in 2018 you have any

0:26:19idea what that might be I would loved to

0:26:21see Apple further enhance the app

0:26:24analytics area especially around sources

0:26:27I think that would be very helpful to

0:26:30get a bit more insight into like when

0:26:32someone's when they say like this

0:26:34percentage of my users are browse this

0:26:36percentage of my users are search having

0:26:38some insight into what they were

0:26:39browsing for what they were searching

0:26:41for

0:26:42I think would be helpful I like that I

0:26:46think that that's something that I

0:26:47certainly think of that would be would

0:26:49be nice I think I would look forward to

0:26:51it's like I'm trying think of other like

0:26:54things that I would love I love when iOS

0:26:5512 and watch OS 5 come out for them to

0:26:58drop support for some old devices

0:26:59because there's a couple of older

0:27:02devices that are making that make

0:27:04development a bit more clumsy and

0:27:05awkward then I would love and so I'd

0:27:07love to see that them to be slightly

0:27:09more aggressive and who knows the way

0:27:10that they're the recent battery scandal

0:27:13shenanigans situation has happened maybe

0:27:16they will be more apt to do that so

0:27:18that'll make my life easier and their

0:27:19life easier but those are these sort of

0:27:21the two that come to mind what about you

0:27:23I think you know within the realm of

0:27:26things that are actually realistic like

0:27:27yeah I would love for them to drop that

0:27:2970% Commission and and you know get and

0:27:31you know give us more like 85% all the

0:27:33time like that would be nice it's not

0:27:34gonna do it here within the realm of

0:27:36what's actually likely and and not

0:27:39counting things like API and SDK changes

0:27:42the for the actual store itself the

0:27:45biggest thing I want is better search

0:27:47and I don't just mean like different

0:27:50layout of search results I the biggest

0:27:53thing I want to see is improvements to

0:27:55their relevancy ranking that is the

0:27:59hardest part of search the hard part of

0:28:01search is not finding results it's

0:28:02sorting the results in a reasonable and

0:28:05useful way and and that's the area in

0:28:07which Apple has so badly fallen down in

0:28:09the App Store so much of a time and and

0:28:12that affects both the search results

0:28:14themselves and as previously discussed

0:28:16in previous episodes that affects the

0:28:17the relevance pricing and ranking of

0:28:19search ads as well so number one for me

0:28:23that's I think what the App Store needs

0:28:25the most is better search and more

0:28:27specifically better relevancy ranking of

0:28:29search results yeah I certainly would

0:28:31would love that I mean there's some

0:28:34things that is always so frustrating and

0:28:36I know this is partly because I have

0:28:37most of my apps a fairly generic names

0:28:39which is an intentional thing but it's

0:28:40also sometimes a problematic thing is

0:28:42where someone does a literal search for

0:28:45the name of my app you know so they they

0:28:47type in workouts plus plus that's their

0:28:49search term and it doesn't show up

0:28:52anywhere in the search results it's just

0:28:55very frustrating

0:28:56we're like I understand why like I'm

0:28:58sure they're just excluding the plus

0:28:59plus characters and then sitting there

0:29:00doing like a general you know general

0:29:02search and so on but it's just one of

0:29:04those things where like anytime that

0:29:05happens it is certainly very frustrating

0:29:06and so I would love for that system to

0:29:09be improved

0:29:10and but honestly also both as a user

0:29:12like I always kind of hate when I'm

0:29:14search I do a search for an app or a

0:29:16type of app and most of the initial

0:29:18results clearly are apps that have been

0:29:20updated in a while or are in lower

0:29:23quality or whatever that are just like

0:29:25apps that have been in the store for a

0:29:26long time like that's tombstone or are

0:29:28totally irrelevant to what you searched

0:29:29for sure so like definitely an

0:29:31improvement to that would be very much

0:29:33appreciated all right well here's hoping

0:29:36to a great 2018 and here's some thanks

0:29:38for a good 2017 to the App Store people

0:29:40yeah thanks everyone for listening and

0:29:42we'll talk to you next week bye