The Incomparable

134: Obligatory Cannibalism


  the incomparable number 134 april twenty [TS]

  thirty [TS]

  we're back with another edition of the [TS]

  incomparable understand smell your host [TS]

  and this is an addition of our book club [TS]

  joining me today to talk about books [TS]

  that will depress you because they're [TS]

  about the end of the world the [TS]

  apocalypse sadness and airplanes are [TS]

  Scott McNulty I Scott but there's a dog [TS]

  in here is also a dog we should fire off [TS]

  the spoiler horn before we say what [TS]

  happens to the dog likes Friedman is [TS]

  also here hi Lex yeah there's a dog but [TS]

  there's also a baby on a spit so let's [TS]

  not get too optimistic [TS]

  mm that's not that's in a different book [TS]

  that wasn't it yeah okay but I'm just [TS]

  saying as a collective these two books [TS]

  have been really depressed when book has [TS]

  a dog in one book as well that sounds [TS]

  like a very different books 1 because a [TS]

  dog one book has a baby on the spit [TS]

  that's very very different but they're [TS]

  not that different well okay maybe they [TS]

  are also joining me is John syracuse hi [TS]

  John [TS]

  why would books about the end of the [TS]

  world depress you don't see that finding [TS]

  celery could be Leslie we've discussed [TS]

  your views of the Apocalypse previously [TS]

  i'll admit right away that the thing [TS]

  that impresses me most about any book [TS]

  dealing with the end of the world as [TS]

  hell ill-prepared I would be for set and [TS]

  how i would simply die I would be in the [TS]

  first wave of people to die no matter [TS]

  what you're what they call the one of [TS]

  the lucky ones like yeah go early [TS]

  yeah that's the way i think i said on [TS]

  our last apocalypse book club when Lisa [TS]

  was here and we were talking about that [TS]

  that collection that I'm that a is [TS]

  Robert Kirkman who wrote The Walking [TS]

  Dead what he would do in the case of a [TS]

  zombie apocalypse and he said hang [TS]

  myself I'm not gonna snow now I want to [TS]

  live through that are you kidding me [TS]

  that would be awful but both of the [TS]

  books that we're talking about tonight [TS]

  are about the apocalypse more or less [TS]

  and one of them is booked by this is our [TS]

  recent selection is a book from 2012 by [TS]

  Peter Heller called the dog stars which [TS]

  I read over the holidays i think i got [TS]

  it for Christmas so I read it read it [TS]

  early this year liked a lot nominated [TS]

  for Hugo or didn't win didn't get [TS]

  nominated [TS]

  well and what we're gonna talk about [TS]

  that and then we're also going to talk [TS]

  about a more of a classic novel from [TS]

  2006 Cormac McCarthy's the road which is [TS]

  super depressing but [TS]

  also super grade but we'll get to that I [TS]

  thought we'd start by talking about the [TS]

  more recent book the dog stars which you [TS]

  know I've been listening to the the the [TS]

  flophouse podcast long enough that I [TS]

  want to do a lengthy lengthy plot [TS]

  synopsis with lots of wacky jokes but [TS]

  I'm not nearly as funny as the guys from [TS]

  the plot house podcast so help me out [TS]

  here guys the dogstars a book where [TS]

  there's been an apocalypse [TS]

  there's a there's like a dude who lives [TS]

  in an airport in Colorado and he's got a [TS]

  buddy sort of who lives with him who's [TS]

  like a survivalist and he sort of like [TS]

  has a garden at the airport and I and is [TS]

  feeling I guess unfulfilled a little bit [TS]

  about his his sort of day by day life at [TS]

  the airport where they you know it [TS]

  whenever anybody gets close enough they [TS]

  kill them they like they haven't like [TS]

  get up in the tower and blow people away [TS]

  they come close so that they can live [TS]

  their little life they're not [TS]

  necessarily their surviving right but [TS]

  they're not necessarily these altruistic [TS]

  people there it's him in a survivalist [TS]

  kind of shooting anybody who comes near [TS]

  them in in this airport but he yearns [TS]

  for something more does that sound Scott [TS]

  isn't coming back to you now I i [TS]

  remember the beginning of this book and [TS]

  so how good that does a big is the name [TS]

  of the the pilot who flies around in his [TS]

  little plane ride we missed that piece [TS]

  that he has a that the the main guy has [TS]

  a plate right that utilize all I [TS]

  mentioned there was a plane but yes he [TS]

  has a plane at the airport and he can [TS]

  fly so he goes and visits split the [TS]

  airplane and fly the plane [TS]

  ok he does it's not that fantastical if [TS]

  you can fly this would be over [TS]

  he could go ever i am the ruler the [TS]

  apocalypse but that's not it will be [TS]

  interesting book but what he gets [TS]

  excited because when it one day when [TS]

  he's flying [TS]

  I guess even maybe before the the novel [TS]

  starts its happen but he hears another [TS]

  voice on the radio and he happy thinks [TS]

  their side deals out there his lifelong [TS]

  mission now becomes to find the person [TS]

  who spoke to you have to figure out [TS]

  where that signals coming from and try [TS]

  come down yeah because he has this sad [TS]

  you know every time he's flying here he [TS]

  runs through like the the the intercom [TS]

  the tower the tower communications just [TS]

  in case there's somebody out there and [TS]

  one time he hears from like a far-off [TS]

  location that's I guess he could fly [TS]

  there but he couldn't get he wouldn't [TS]

  have enough fuel to get back and [TS]

  everything is calculated by I need to [TS]

  have at least half a tank so I can get [TS]

  back to my home airport and and I it is [TS]

  I do have some questions I mean that the [TS]

  the author who is a pilot obviously he [TS]

  he makes this whole sort of thing about [TS]

  how the gases it some gas is still good [TS]

  and then eventually we'll have to get [TS]

  the jet fuel but I kept thinking what a [TS]

  luxury to in after the apocalypse be [TS]

  able to just kind of fly around to [TS]

  various places it's kind of a it [TS]

  yeah this book want to have its cake and [TS]

  eat it too like in terms of it wanted to [TS]

  be like a gritty realism but it also had [TS]

  a certain conceits that were built into [TS]

  the be the premise of the book as an man [TS]

  is dog a plane that type of thing and [TS]

  they don't necessarily fit together in [TS]

  any sort of logical manner you even if [TS]

  you accept everything you just discussed [TS]

  about the plane and everything like that [TS]

  it's like you know part of the [TS]

  limitation was well how much range as we [TS]

  have always flying assessment like your [TS]

  options for if you have the entire world [TS]

  and most people are dead your options [TS]

  for aircraft expand greatly so there's [TS]

  no real reason that he has to be flying [TS]

  around and assessment with very short [TS]

  range even if you accept all the stuff [TS]

  about the fuel and everyone although you [TS]

  don't know how to you do know how to [TS]

  have to know how to fly these certain [TS]

  kinds of got all the time in the world [TS]

  to learn well I always got here we have [TS]

  an expert pianist us but he died in [TS]

  Groundhog Day the day resets if he were [TS]

  to crash his jet fighter he would that [TS]

  was it is is that you have to find a [TS]

  flower you guys get a slightly bigger [TS]

  problem [TS]

  yeah I'm saying they don't mean like [TS]

  just two and two engines for safety [TS]

  aspect just fly over to the Cessna store [TS]

  that was not my problem with my problem [TS]

  was more that every time you going [TS]

  you're going out like I'm gonna fly [TS]

  around see what i can see stop and get [TS]

  some soda at the convenience store which [TS]

  he does [TS]

  and those who visit orphans who have the [TS]

  funny disease that is part of the [TS]

  apocalypse and give them some stuff I'm [TS]

  thinking every time you making that trip [TS]

  you're losing like the last gasp that [TS]

  exists in the world nobody he'd already [TS]

  calculated how much he had but it [TS]

  reminded me of the most recent episode [TS]

  of revolution not to turn this into a TV [TS]

  episode but don't know if anyone saw [TS]

  that they could be increasingly [TS]

  hilarious some for some reason not [TS]

  cancelled television series about the [TS]

  members of the things that some people [TS]

  have helicopters and these are like [TS]

  helicopters did like sneak up on you [TS]

  like on your tippy-toes wearing their [TS]

  their quiet socks and how exceptional [TS]

  helicopter you go you don't know the [TS]

  helicopter is there until it is [TS]

  literally filling the frame of the [TS]

  camera which is not zoomed in stock [TS]

  account somehow open the helicopter [TS]

  around that cutting off our way you can [TS]

  hear a helicopter from especially in the [TS]

  world wouldn't anyway so the same thing [TS]

  with this plane if if your goal is not [TS]

  to be killed by like the other people [TS]

  who apparently are all hostile or at [TS]

  least you think they're all hostile [TS]

  don't fly praying this it's gonna be the [TS]

  only plane of the sky you could hear [TS]

  from miles and miles and miles around [TS]

  I assume that's why people come to the [TS]

  airport or they know that the that if [TS]

  you come like within five miles of here [TS]

  for your shot down but I don't like it's [TS]

  it's it's that they're causing their own [TS]

  problems it's ok so it if you didn't fly [TS]

  the plane people wouldn't come to the [TS]

  airport but they're flying a plane to [TS]

  make sure they can see the people who [TS]

  are coming to the airport but the only [TS]

  coming because this can see your plane [TS]

  from 300 miles away because it's gonna [TS]

  be playing in the sky and they really [TS]

  noisy like he's he's flying the plane [TS]

  not just for the practical reasons of [TS]

  scouting out you know the hostile forces [TS]

  but i think it's his one escaped from [TS]

  the horrible reality of the world right [TS]

  here longer pieces and he can ya read [TS]

  beyond collapse here [TS]

  your options for like self-actualizing [TS]

  hobbies are limited to something that's [TS]

  more limited but he has a plane and fuel [TS]

  and he's living in an airport so why not [TS]

  he's basically got you know two things [TS]

  to live for in the immediate in the [TS]

  start of the book he's got his dog which [TS]

  I thought was a that i found it i think [TS]

  Jon might have been referencing a little [TS]

  bit annoying or try to cliché to say [TS]

  well I'm here and i'll have someone to [TS]

  talk to because I've got my Wilson I've [TS]

  got my dog and he's got is flying right [TS]

  because there is nothing to do he can [TS]

  hang out with [TS]

  his he's got hunting and fishing right [TS]

  now but he can hang out with his [TS]

  neighbor who he mostly paints and yeah [TS]

  the neighbor is really well-prepared for [TS]

  the apocalypse prize essentially [TS]

  thrilled by the existence of the Act [TS]

  listen listen we've got down humans and [TS]

  he's you know he's one of those [TS]

  newspaper so I i did the you know I did [TS]

  not at all mind the conceit of his sort [TS]

  of wasting fuel from time to time and [TS]

  flying around for the hell of it because [TS]

  there's nothing to do but yes he can [TS]

  forage for food so that he could survive [TS]

  but then if you want to do anything he [TS]

  i'm pretty sure they even have an iphone [TS]

  which just makes it horrible [TS]

  well we get into more hobbies of people [TS]

  have to the apocalypse later in the book [TS]

  within the ending that Scott can't [TS]

  remember but when we bring it up i'm [TS]

  sure we'll come back to Scott that [TS]

  flying and gardening and fishing hunting [TS]

  or not the only hobbies available to you [TS]

  in the most popular apocalyptic world of [TS]

  the dogstars yes there's also backgammon [TS]

  so the heat the i would say about hige [TS]

  is that he is obviously uneasy and he is [TS]

  searching for something right so hehe [TS]

  his his uh his companion this doomsday [TS]

  prepper guy is happy to have it be [TS]

  doomsday like you said and he's all [TS]

  prepared and he is not happy about it i [TS]

  mean he has you know he's growing things [TS]

  flying around but even then he's [TS]

  wandering he is that that's just part of [TS]

  who he is he's wondering and searching [TS]

  for something he's talking on the radio [TS]

  trying to find people he's visiting the [TS]

  the kids in the family that's got the [TS]

  disease [TS]

  he's taking these hikes up into the [TS]

  mountains that his his buddy says he's [TS]

  crazy for doing it he's gonna get [TS]

  himself killed but and he almost does [TS]

  right into lease saved by a mob by [TS]

  mortar fire from his crazy his crazy [TS]

  buddy at the airport but you know [TS]

  clearly everything he does is because he [TS]

  is he's uncomfortable he's searching [TS]

  he's not he's not happy in the end the [TS]

  apocalypse big surprise but his buddy is [TS]

  happy and he's looking for something [TS]

  right he we learn as we go [TS]

  that he you know that he's lost his his [TS]

  wife and and we learn about the endtime [TS]

  and how you know how it all kind of fell [TS]

  apart and he wants to find something [TS]

  else and so and that's really the story [TS]

  of the book as we get this whole first [TS]

  part where it's setting up his world and [TS]

  then he goes kind of [TS]

  this little walkabout where he can [TS]

  almost tries to get himself killed [TS]

  spoiler horn [TS]

  but his dog dies of natural causes not [TS]

  kid not did of natural causes [TS]

  well he might have also frozen to death [TS]

  it's really hard to tell maybe but [TS]

  that's natural process was not killed by [TS]

  like zombies or anything it's right by [TS]

  heat no not yet not right away he wasn't [TS]

  murdered know who was not murdered the [TS]

  doctor was dr. it's not murdered and he [TS]

  comes back from any almost gets killed [TS]

  and that there's that whole section but [TS]

  but with the story you know in some ways [TS]

  it is really about is what happens next [TS]

  which is he says I gotta get out of here [TS]

  I'm gonna I'm gonna follow that that [TS]

  stray thing that I heard on the radio [TS]

  that's going to take me out of range and [TS]

  it's i'm making a risk but I'm not I'm [TS]

  just unhappy I guess what I'm saying is [TS]

  this is a book a bit about a guy who has [TS]

  survived the apocalypse and and still [TS]

  wants more [TS]

  what more could you want have a question [TS]

  about the the main character here anyway [TS]

  maybe I for the people who are married [TS]

  just for Jason who's read more recently [TS]

  if you can tell me if I'm crazy better [TS]

  so personal this book and the road which [TS]

  will get to second are both in the [TS]

  post-apocalyptic world where 99.9 [TS]

  percent of the apostrophes have been [TS]

  wiped out all right our quotation marks [TS]

  yes yes there's very little position [TS]

  after the apocalypse oh there's no [TS]

  quotes around the things you know it's [TS]

  it's very interesting i don't know if [TS]

  you pick them intentionally with this [TS]

  thing but it's very interesting writing [TS]

  style where they don't put quotes are [TS]

  people say and it's kind of you know [TS]

  sort of stream-of-consciousness right [TS]

  yeah i thought we contact McCarthy when [TS]

  i read the road several years ago but [TS]

  then I read this was like wow I guess [TS]

  punctuation really was a victim of its [TS]

  not the wipes I think you picked it up [TS]

  from kroger yeah i think but Percy that [TS]

  particular style especially early on [TS]

  when he sort of giving the quick [TS]

  background on like what happened and how [TS]

  like you know people were telling people [TS]

  write that by sickness is your fevers [TS]

  would kill them like the fluid they [TS]

  would die and then some people live with [TS]

  this blood disease and at one point in [TS]

  the first handful of pages in this sort [TS]

  of staccato stream-of-consciousness you [TS]

  know sentence fragment structure of [TS]

  explaining what happened to the world he [TS]

  mentions that he himself I think had a [TS]

  fever at some point it was burning up [TS]

  but just didn't didn't I laughs right [TS]

  came through whatever and that fever [TS]

  like cooked his brain and his skull and [TS]

  because of the writing style [TS]

  and that passage in the beginning I was [TS]

  thinking he is mentally impaired in some [TS]

  way by having his brain boil in his head [TS]

  during the sickness thing and that he is [TS]

  not really am the master of his own [TS]

  thoughts like he knows he's like a [TS]

  self-aware mentally incapacitated in [TS]

  some way that's what i thought it right [TS]

  and what interests you [TS]

  but by the end of the book that [TS]

  apparently his brain is better and [TS]

  better as he's you know thinking in full [TS]

  sentences and I don't know if that was [TS]

  like a literary devices try to like [TS]

  express his depression in terms of an [TS]

  inability to think straight but it was [TS]

  almost like people mind it was like [TS]

  flowers for algernon but you know only [TS]

  one direction like by the end of the [TS]

  book is like I am a sophisticated person [TS]

  with complex thoughts and complete [TS]

  sentences and ideological things were in [TS]

  the beginning I was going to get almost [TS]

  forgiven flying around the airport in [TS]

  the plan because he's feeble-minded and [TS]

  his partner guys nuts doesn't talk about [TS]

  that doesn't make sure to say that he [TS]

  feels like he's getting better that he's [TS]

  that he's thinking more clearly or maybe [TS]

  i just put a date is very clearly that [TS]

  he he seems more lucid as he goes and [TS]

  maybe it's maybe it's the fog clearing [TS]

  maybe this is the story of him kind of [TS]

  finally getting it together out of after [TS]

  all that time but you're right when it [TS]

  starts he talks about having his fever [TS]

  and being really confused and and [TS]

  apologizing basically for the bed [TS]

  punctuation in the book [TS]

  yeah I thought that would be a bigger [TS]

  part of the book but like it i mean it [TS]

  went away pretty quickly and it just you [TS]

  know you settled into okay well instead [TS]

  it's just gonna be a book with the radio [TS]

  narrator but no quotation marks instead [TS]

  of instead of a book narrated by [TS]

  somebody who is not kind of messed up [TS]

  yeah-hoo-hoo isn't operating it at full [TS]

  power which is kind of like a fun kind [TS]

  of unreliable narrator where he's not [TS]

  being unreliable and intentionally or [TS]

  because he's deluded but merely because [TS]

  his is a perceptions are not right [TS]

  sophisticated that you know i will say [TS]

  that the my biggest objection for the [TS]

  thing that I had the biggest problem [TS]

  that i didn't read this as recently as [TS]

  Jason but there's the [TS]

  I a decent chunk of the book I guess [TS]

  closer to the end where he I don't know [TS]

  if this requires a spoiler an apple [TS]

  where he meets up with some other people [TS]

  yes we've blown the spoiler we did the [TS]

  most important spoiler which is that the [TS]

  dog doesn't make it is out there now [TS]

  it's out there so yes he meet some [TS]

  people in on one his little walkabout we [TS]

  haven't got it right and he but so [TS]

  during this during his time he spent [TS]

  some time with his people he spends [TS]

  nights with these people is a spends [TS]

  weeks weeks with yes and he he literally [TS]

  spends the night with with the woman [TS]

  upon whom he happens literally literally [TS]

  spent the night lacks meaning that they [TS]

  spend time together and it happens [TS]

  overnight and literally that's what [TS]

  happens literally they fornicate ok [TS]

  great literally watch on it and I don't [TS]

  know I been very lonely and he's he's [TS]

  had only a survivalist with him [TS]

  she's only had her father in some [TS]

  respects see what you would say look [TS]

  this is this is the scenario where like [TS]

  you literally have less man i don't mean [TS]

  like if ever there was a time where you [TS]

  can excuse to people getting together [TS]

  because they're it's like well because [TS]

  because she's the only female in the [TS]

  book he's the only male when that is [TS]

  almost like well he's the only female in [TS]

  the mail on the entire planet you can [TS]

  see how that like that's inevitable that [TS]

  it's going to happen just because but [TS]

  see it's not just because if that's what [TS]

  it was it was just like and we were like [TS]

  a screw it lets you know get it on [TS]

  that'd be one thing but this is they [TS]

  really have a a falling in love [TS]

  situation now I mean I don't think they [TS]

  do because i don't know if the [TS]

  characters are or not be stopped or if [TS]

  she's supposed to be mentally [TS]

  incapacitated as well like they're never [TS]

  gonna everything they're both kind of [TS]

  like they're both kind of still in a fog [TS]

  and it's like well well we're here to [TS]

  really damaged by the apocalypse well [TS]

  you would think that kind of throws you [TS]

  off everyone dying and you are a [TS]

  survivor and then you have to stay [TS]

  huddled and hidden in this like little [TS]

  valley with your father [TS]

  yeah but this is like was it 15 years [TS]

  later though how many years like many [TS]

  years it's not like get over it may be [TS]

  the case in the world and the world [TS]

  ended [TS]

  ok huh no I mean I understand where [TS]

  you're coming from college I felt like [TS]

  it felt rushed or unjustified you know [TS]

  the we didn't agree with you but I'm [TS]

  just saying like I i think it it's [TS]

  appropriate for it to be [TS]

  weird and rushed and unjustified because [TS]

  i think it would be on justified in real [TS]

  life and it would you know I mean I mean [TS]

  that's how it felt to me was like that [TS]

  they had this initial rush of like I [TS]

  don't trust you i'm going to try to kill [TS]

  you and then there's like all right I'm [TS]

  gonna trust you enough to not kill you [TS]

  right now I may kill you in the morning [TS]

  and then and then there's that whole [TS]

  okay well you know maybe I'm sure you're [TS]

  here maybe this is safe enough and we're [TS]

  we're the only two you know [TS]

  normal adults in the in the book one man [TS]

  one woman what do you think is gonna [TS]

  happen and then there's that other part [TS]

  which is like well you know the creek is [TS]

  gonna dry up we're not going to be able [TS]

  to stay here very long this guy seems [TS]

  like he's an okay guy [TS]

  maybe there's something more here maybe [TS]

  we can go with him maybe you know maybe [TS]

  we can you know we can trust tamil and [TS]

  then that kind of involves but i think [TS]

  it's logical that in this kind of [TS]

  scenario one thing would come ahead of [TS]

  the other that the that the there's the [TS]

  killing part trying to kill them and [TS]

  then the sex part and then the kind of [TS]

  like maybe we really can trust in part [TS]

  and they come out they're all messed up [TS]

  there all the sequence that's how my [TS]

  marriage happens that's that's right [TS]

  first your wife's father tried to kill [TS]

  you with a shotgun [TS]

  I mean you throw a grenade but away from [TS]

  them showing that you're really that's [TS]

  like a courtship move yeah that's right [TS]

  i have ammunition but i'm not using it i [TS]

  just felt like that either had to say [TS]

  hey you know why don't we have some sex [TS]

  so that we can continue the species or [TS]

  they have to or they have to be like you [TS]

  know what [TS]

  where it's two of the very last humans [TS]

  around neither of us has really [TS]

  tremendous access to soap and things [TS]

  like that and we're both head and [TS]

  disgusting and roughing it every day [TS]

  let's let's be friends like I thought [TS]

  that just friends i would've been fine [TS]

  platonic apocalypse friends I think it's [TS]

  more of like I won't tell anyone if you [TS]

  want [TS]

  ya know what does nothing to tell no I [TS]

  had more of an objection to the to the [TS]

  Father character because despite you [TS]

  know so you get your main character [TS]

  you've got the woman who doesn't really [TS]

  do much is not fleshed out whatever but [TS]

  the father character was you know the [TS]

  like you know the the uber father figure [TS]

  where he is a gruff but fair but [TS]

  confident but to protect your daughter [TS]

  but not too protective and just like he [TS]

  didn't I didn't feel like I knew [TS]

  anything [TS]

  about the father it as a character I [TS]

  felt like no lie can picture the actor [TS]

  who would play this in the movie because [TS]

  I can keep their their couple actors who [TS]

  played this part in every movie or TV [TS]

  show that has this character that time [TS]

  is tommy lee jones know or someone [TS]

  similar maybe older Tommy Lee Jones [TS]

  gather our white-haired version but like [TS]

  I don't feel like I know anything about [TS]

  the father character i feel like i know [TS]

  that the tiny tiny bit about the woman [TS]

  character and you know substantially [TS]

  more about it because you spend most of [TS]

  the book with him right [TS]

  but those two guys for for that to be I [TS]

  don't know if it was page wise for [TS]

  preferred to kind of be a book in two [TS]

  acts where it's like the here's my world [TS]

  here's how it works and how it falls [TS]

  apart is my dog dies and I don't know [TS]

  what to do and the second part is I'm [TS]

  off on my own I'm journey I find these [TS]

  people [TS]

  I find myself again and then the journey [TS]

  back that second half like I I feel like [TS]

  a new bank li much better then I knew [TS]

  any of those two characters who made up [TS]

  the second half [TS]

  yeah I guess although bangla and himself [TS]

  his body of the airport is is a I mean [TS]

  he's a broad sort of character decision [TS]

  right there is not new [TS]

  not much nuance to him he's a surviving [TS]

  there i think there is though because [TS]

  like when you see a character like that [TS]

  it can go you see it's either like it's [TS]

  either he's a he's if you want to make a [TS]

  cardboard cutout he's gotta buy [TS]

  everything that he's saying but you get [TS]

  the sense that despite his the way he [TS]

  talks about everything that it's that he [TS]

  understands it's an act of bravado as [TS]

  well that there's some kind of you know [TS]

  person inside there and this is his [TS]

  defense mechanism against the apocalypse [TS]

  you know when you get that when you when [TS]

  they come back there at the end and they [TS]

  find him wounded and they have to nurse [TS]

  it back to help he you know there we [TS]

  learn a lot more about him and that [TS]

  that's in fact the case and he's a much [TS]

  more human character at that point or [TS]

  even before that when he's trying to [TS]

  like prevent his friend from going [TS]

  without ever admitting that he doesn't [TS]

  want his friends to go right you know [TS]

  like him when he leaves hunting for a [TS]

  long time or when he's going to go off [TS]

  in the plane his bank is not going to [TS]

  come out and say i don't think you [TS]

  should go I don't want you to go but [TS]

  he's you know just a few words here and [TS]

  there that he notes it's like that's him [TS]

  trying to tell me that he doesn't want [TS]

  me to leave or make making it ok for me [TS]

  not to leave up that was reasonable but [TS]

  like early on the book the book that I [TS]

  was hoping this would be my typical way [TS]

  was that you got you got this guy and it [TS]

  like everyone comes to the airport and [TS]

  shoot them in a real like that part [TS]

  because [TS]

  look here if you have survived 15 years [TS]

  this is a simple policy just kill [TS]

  everybody going to lose it with someone [TS]

  appears you kill them you don't talk to [TS]

  them you don't negotiate you don't ask [TS]

  questions and it's something you expect [TS]

  to survive was to do but then you in [TS]

  early on you don't know what the deal is [TS]

  bangla you know he digs with this guy [TS]

  and I was saying okay well he's gotta [TS]

  kill bangla in the next 10 pages because [TS]

  you know that's the only way the the [TS]

  kill everybody has a way to survive [TS]

  thing as a motto extend should extend [TS]

  and you should look at the guy next to [TS]

  go away second there's a guy and he [TS]

  seems a little crazy we're not killing [TS]

  him and if I don't kill him that he's [TS]

  watching me when I sleep and stuff like [TS]

  that so I go hey you gotta kill bangla [TS]

  you know because that's like that's the [TS]

  ethos of the end times as you know kill [TS]

  or be killed but didn't go in that [TS]

  direction it became like okay because [TS]

  everybody else but we're fine with each [TS]

  other [TS]

  also you might know almost have to [TS]

  protect yourself because he's he's [TS]

  starting to wonder if you're soft and [TS]

  then maybe he'll come for you in the [TS]

  night so you gotta grind like it seems [TS]

  like hey we had the killer bangla and [TS]

  that would be that if it'd gone down [TS]

  that road this would have been a [TS]

  different kind of book probably and even [TS]

  less touchy feely friendly kind of book [TS]

  but you know after 15 years of killing [TS]

  every human who sets foot in the airport [TS]

  and not sleeping in your own house that [TS]

  you could do so in a more efficient [TS]

  fashion that that would seem more [TS]

  logical conclusion it's almost like the [TS]

  15 years that happened before this book [TS]

  this is clearly the turning point in [TS]

  their life this is all that that was [TS]

  that and we've been doing that 15 years [TS]

  but now my dogs and humans yes my dog [TS]

  died [TS]

  I must find my favorite bangla moment is [TS]

  when he when he trains hige or when he [TS]

  gives take that test without him knowing [TS]

  that he's being tested [TS]

  I remember the exact details of the [TS]

  scene but basically he makes Hague fear [TS]

  that he's being fired upon and and has [TS]

  to defend himself and that he's he's got [TS]

  no other options and yeah that was some [TS]

  interlopers come to the airport right [TS]

  and here's it and began and it turns out [TS]

  that he goes out to investigate he [TS]

  brings his gun or whatever and it turns [TS]

  out that Langley knows this is happening [TS]

  he's watching the whole thing but he [TS]

  wants to see what he will do and he gets [TS]

  the point where he's going to take them [TS]

  out and then daily takes them out is how [TS]

  you pass my test like what how messed up [TS]

  for you [TS]

  what do you exactly what I like this [TS]

  yesterday that's actually a nice thing [TS]

  too badly did because it's important [TS]

  that he has to be [TS]

  let you know when he's well he doesn't [TS]

  need to when it when bangles a debating [TS]

  whether it's I think it's very [TS]

  appropriate training for bengali to [TS]

  provide it but it was still kind of left [TS]

  unexamined and were like hey you're [TS]

  supposed to be sympathetic and we're [TS]

  supposed to eventually like him like [TS]

  whistles identified with him in some way [TS]

  but it we never really delved into the [TS]

  fact that you forget about 15 years of [TS]

  slaughtering people who set foot in this [TS]

  airport just the ones that happen in the [TS]

  book like to kill the nine-year-old kid [TS]

  always people some people yes I'm [TS]

  rotting crazy people but not all of them [TS]

  are like you know he said that one time [TS]

  I try to negotiate is the closest I got [TS]

  to getting killed like that you know [TS]

  that test like oh that was a good test [TS]

  for bangle you just killed like nine [TS]

  people for no reason they were just [TS]

  looking for shelter like know those [TS]

  people are going to kill that they those [TS]

  people the way to reconstitute society [TS]

  is probably not to kill every single [TS]

  person you see because some percentage [TS]

  of the emergent like that like see to me [TS]

  that's one of the interesting things [TS]

  with the of really of both of these [TS]

  books but that you know that no one [TS]

  really seems to have the goal of lets [TS]

  repopulate the world and start a new [TS]

  civilization everybody's everybody's [TS]

  gold seemingly for years and years is [TS]

  let's just freaking scale everybody is [TS]

  just live no matter what the cost but [TS]

  thatthat's laughing that was very dark [TS]

  that's the darkest part of those but it [TS]

  would make sense that's that the people [TS]

  with that policy would survive for a [TS]

  long time but human beings are social [TS]

  animals and like percentage-wise you [TS]

  know you can't its you can't keep humans [TS]

  from forming society you just can't like [TS]

  it will happen you know no matter how [TS]

  many of them you think you're crazy [TS]

  little farmer crazy society at least you [TS]

  know you got underdrawing you get [TS]

  something so something you can't stop [TS]

  society that that's part of what happens [TS]

  in this book is that the 15 years later [TS]

  hey they don't stay there but yes from [TS]

  viewed from the outside [TS]

  these are the crazy people by the [TS]

  airport don't go by the airport there [TS]

  crazy killer people at the airport just [TS]

  leave my there was something i think [TS]

  they are ready to go up yeah that's yeah [TS]

  i think so except including hey Gwen [TS]

  like we were supposed to be sympathetic [TS]

  with him later and accepted head flies [TS]

  around and goes and visits the family [TS]

  and and gives him motive isn't he's a [TS]

  good guy that's not a truck and he has a [TS]

  dog I I couldn't I couldn't catch I [TS]

  couldn't become sympathetic with it [TS]

  because i didn't i didn't identify with [TS]

  this pain and he was just a sociopathic [TS]

  killer for 15 years and I didn't like I [TS]

  didn't I don't think he was redeemed by [TS]

  his [TS]

  actions with the old man and the woman [TS]

  and it was hard to square that it's not [TS]

  kind of nice guy fair guy in the second [TS]

  half of the book with the guy who just [TS]

  went along with killing everybody 15 [TS]

  years and was okay with it and I and you [TS]

  couldn't blame blame it on bangla [TS]

  because they made blood trying to make [TS]

  bangla sympathetic as well so it's not [TS]

  like he was just under the wing of a [TS]

  crazy person and got out of his spell [TS]

  you know and i think it's an interesting [TS]

  counterpoint to when he goes he finally [TS]

  figures out you know that the signal is [TS]

  coming from another airport and he gets [TS]

  over there and he has the the chick and [TS]

  that the her dad and the land and then [TS]

  they find out oh it's a big booby trap [TS]

  and this guy of these are spoilers by [TS]

  the way so how is it will strap that's [TS]

  another post apocalyptic how to get just [TS]

  right here so people to your airport and [TS]

  your trip their plans for the trip wire [TS]

  exactly and then you take the 15 years [TS]

  you kill them and take their stuff and [TS]

  they are basically that old couple is [TS]

  basically doing what big and bangla are [TS]

  doing a guess he could finally are not [TS]

  luring people hate that word that's what [TS]

  makes this week like still asleep [TS]

  already [TS]

  evil is people in the book we are [TS]

  actively learning you in but they are [TS]

  kind of learning people by driving a [TS]

  plane around by leaving the light on by [TS]

  the thing and I mean like it's true so [TS]

  they're not doing it as actively as the [TS]

  older couple but it's just shades of the [TS]

  same thing and I like the old people I [TS]

  mean those building it didn't get [TS]

  anything with a good had me speaking [TS]

  parts other than like you know making to [TS]

  be killed yes I hard they were up all my [TS]

  bedroom realize the campus and don't [TS]

  touch that painting right and then [TS]

  they're dead [TS]

  you know I think I think that's a good [TS]

  point that that he get in and bangalore [TS]

  are doing things that we would we would [TS]

  say in our pre epochal pre-apocalyptic [TS]

  society are bad but you know you do get [TS]

  the sense from from hit that he's kind [TS]

  of emerging from this [TS]

  yeah you're right 10 or 15 years long [TS]

  queue state where where he sort of been [TS]

  under the thrall of bangla but but at [TS]

  the same time hige you know he's living [TS]

  in the hangar and doing gardening and [TS]

  taking walks with his dog has his dog as [TS]

  a companion whereas bangli is just like [TS]

  alone and very focused on killing people [TS]

  and doesn't go anywhere and [TS]

  do anything and and and haig flies [TS]

  around and goes and visits the family [TS]

  and takes cock out of you know [TS]

  convenience stores and stuff like that [TS]

  so you get the sense that he's at least [TS]

  what the book is trying to say is that [TS]

  he's he's trying to do more he isn't [TS]

  happy he's Restless he doesn't want to [TS]

  just go by baileys create it doesn't [TS]

  necessarily absolves him from everything [TS]

  that they've done while they've been [TS]

  defending the airport but he he clearly [TS]

  has has been unhappy and it leads to him [TS]

  setting out on his own you know and then [TS]

  and then finding these people who by the [TS]

  way their immediate response to him [TS]

  flying over there little kitchen is to [TS]

  shoot at him [TS]

  so again shoot first ask questions later [TS]

  in the apocalypse but he he takes that [TS]

  as a sign like say that's interesting [TS]

  but their lives were instead of lives [TS]

  are structured around stuff like they [TS]

  were hiding there they weren't like they [TS]

  were going online we routinely we [TS]

  routinely have a system by which when [TS]

  people wander into our canyon we kill [TS]

  them in an efficient manner and dispose [TS]

  them they were caught by surprise and [TS]

  they defended themselves once they were [TS]

  right happened upon but it's not the [TS]

  same as the situation where you could [TS]

  leave the light on the pork and asleep [TS]

  by the Burmese which treatments to show [TS]

  up when you perform well I don't think [TS]

  he's leaving the light on to attract [TS]

  people but I think he's leaving later on [TS]

  as a warning and if you're too stupid to [TS]

  stay away from this guy since everybody [TS]

  hates everybody obviously it leaves it [TS]

  on because they know they'll go to the [TS]

  light that's why they tip over the [TS]

  dumpster because they know the people [TS]

  hide behind for cover like it's a trap [TS]

  so we're gonna park ellipse John will go [TS]

  toward the light and lex will run away [TS]

  from the light [TS]

  I'll be dead I'm just saying I'm saying [TS]

  that you know I think that he has a lot [TS]

  of noble qualities the things he does [TS]

  when he visits those the orphans I guess [TS]

  it's not just words because they're [TS]

  really into a perimeter [TS]

  he's you know he's very nice with them [TS]

  he's if he goes out of his way to give [TS]

  them food and supplies and attention i [TS]

  know it's kind of a attendance a [TS]

  sweetheart John you take everything that [TS]

  I mean he's he's he's a complicated [TS]

  character and no one understands but his [TS]

  mother by the way the the father who's [TS]

  down in the canyon he's the same guy who [TS]

  plays the can be the same guy who played [TS]

  the father and on the farm in the [TS]

  walking dead same guy same conversation [TS]

  character similar guy better more fit i [TS]

  think i feel like as he was a marine or [TS]

  whatever right whatever same guy [TS]

  well just he'll do a little they will [TS]

  get much personal trainer for a few [TS]

  weeks and then he could be back at [TS]

  speaking speaking of The Walking Dead [TS]

  like this that have the same frustration [TS]

  with this book is a half of the walking [TS]

  again it's like [TS]

  especially this one because it seemed [TS]

  like it had some good ideas about what [TS]

  you and the apocalypse but like being an [TS]

  airport in an open plain for miles [TS]

  around is not a defensible position like [TS]

  they're you the box Kane was at least a [TS]

  little bit better you know the bigger [TS]

  they basically we're in the middle of my [TS]

  impression was there in the middle of a [TS]

  giant flat plane with mountains often [TS]

  the distance from one side and they have [TS]

  to patrol their entire perimeter where [TS]

  people can see them from miles around [TS]

  like it's not a good position like know [TS]

  you have the entire world you can you [TS]

  can literally go into a castle like you [TS]

  can get a castle with a mode if you can [TS]

  somehow get over to like England it like [TS]

  there but there are more defensive the [TS]

  top of a skyscraper something more [TS]

  defensible positions than in the middle [TS]

  of a plane because then people can come [TS]

  from anywhere and they can see you from [TS]

  miles and miles around even if you're [TS]

  not flying a plane and it just it seems [TS]

  like you can see them [TS]

  I think that your defense strategies are [TS]

  really bad John because the thing with [TS]

  the airport is I can see since it is so [TS]

  flat wherever I can see people coming [TS]

  whatever and they pick them off if I [TS]

  stay at the top of the skyscraper that [TS]

  I'm cornered as soon as something comes [TS]

  that's like the girl in a horror movie [TS]

  who runs upstairs [TS]

  it's like a castle you have to you have [TS]

  to build another reason castles are made [TS]

  the way they are you build it up against [TS]

  the back of a mountain so people can [TS]

  only come at you from wonder i will [TS]

  outlive you in the apocalypse try to get [TS]

  it do you [TS]

  what John is gonna have the spaceship so [TS]

  he'll just be orbiting and not you need [TS]

  you don't want to have people you don't [TS]

  have the possibility of people attacking [TS]

  for 360 degrees you want to give [TS]

  yourself a defensible position that you [TS]

  know it's like siege mentality you have [TS]

  a moment you have a drawbridge you can [TS]

  only be attacked from one side you'll [TS]

  watch how are they getting to England [TS]

  how I'm giving I'm saying [TS]

  metaphorically but you have to get [TS]

  yourself something like that have so [TS]

  much time they could build a boat [TS]

  I mean for sure if if the roads were all [TS]

  safe [TS]

  anytime there was an apocalyptic [TS]

  situation if I were still alive and I [TS]

  could get somewhere i would want to go [TS]

  to the White House and just to kind of [TS]

  explore that would be my big thing was [TS]

  then probably a popular destination is [TS]

  the other thing go go where the people [TS]

  aren't which they mostly had that likely [TS]

  and Rocky's where we have is that the [TS]

  canyon that was with you couldn't see it [TS]

  from lots of places around my place [TS]

  where you could ford the river they got [TS]

  rid of that was a better defensible [TS]

  position we donated they were there for [TS]

  15 years without without having to [TS]

  routinely kill people wondering because [TS]

  they've chosen a better position but i [TS]

  think i think that's bangla right he [TS]

  wants to kill people from a distant [TS]

  accepted hige hige [TS]

  is a pilot and he's he has he finds [TS]

  solace in the flying and you fly through [TS]

  an airport so that's why he would be [TS]

  attracted to an airport he's not [TS]

  thinking about you know oh I need to [TS]

  find the best strategic place for me to [TS]

  hang out [TS]

  he is thinking I need to find a place [TS]

  where I can fly because I can you know [TS]

  be above the the horrors that are have [TS]

  inflicted upon the earth and bangs like [TS]

  hey this is cool because I can kill [TS]

  people [TS]

  everybody's happy even family still [TS]

  tries to get like the most strategically [TS]

  position McMansion so we can see [TS]

  everything in the area and stuff like [TS]

  that but yeah he could he could have [TS]

  picked a position that he knew would be [TS]

  would cause travelers to come into his [TS]

  sight so he could blow them up because [TS]

  that's the kind of guy he was which [TS]

  again is why you should have been killed [TS]

  by a girl I didn't and bangla arrives [TS]

  after hitting the airport is that my [TS]

  room is correctly and then yeah he does [TS]

  hey is there first and only shows up in [TS]

  the and his van filled with weapons and [TS]

  amazingly they don't kill each other [TS]

  outside [TS]

  yeah I don't like that the rules are in [TS]

  effect then I was wondering like I was [TS]

  waiting for the story about how those [TS]

  two came to be together because it seems [TS]

  like the bank's philosophy as you see [TS]

  someone you kill them [TS]

  so how does he ever how does he ever [TS]

  hook up with this guy i imagine that he [TS]

  must have known that the guy could fly [TS]

  playing thought that could be useful [TS]

  well if family was at the airport first [TS]

  and he was there then hit would have [TS]

  been killed by bang up so i think it had [TS]

  to be the other direction right-handed [TS]

  well I'm here now and I'm gonna take [TS]

  care of this place now that I'm showed [TS]

  up with my guns [TS]

  I was like that's cool yes around [TS]

  whatever I got my dog i'm walking around [TS]

  flying getting some coke and take it to [TS]

  the ticket the orphans whatever you know [TS]

  I you know Scott you and I have written [TS]

  have read another series about the [TS]

  apocalypse [TS]

  oh don't be so depressed i have read [TS]

  another one occasion to read another [TS]

  mirror great book because it got [TS]

  nominated for you go again this this was [TS]

  better than that though this was this is [TS]

  he now there are no zombies there was [TS]

  news of coke [TS]

  Scott Scott expensive ok red in January [TS]

  it was the best book ever judge you i [TS]

  really liked the book i like to i [TS]

  recommend it [TS]

  yeah i did i do I like to although if [TS]

  I'm here's my here's gonna be my [TS]

  criticism of which is it this is this is [TS]

  a I feel like this book originated and I [TS]

  like the book but this was Peter Heller [TS]

  who wrote this book [TS]

  he's a pop-up pilot right [TS]

  this is his fantasy this is his [TS]

  apocalyptic fantasy it's like I mean not [TS]

  talk too much I don't know anything [TS]

  about his personal life but it's like [TS]

  what would happen if the world ended but [TS]

  I had like my wife died so i was single [TS]

  and I gotta play and Ally should I ass [TS]

  and I could fly around and I'll find [TS]

  lovely lady who will love me because I'm [TS]

  the only guy around and we'll make a [TS]

  well fish and hunt have a little garden [TS]

  and I get to see things in my plane and [TS]

  nobody can hug me and there is an aspect [TS]

  of that was just like this is this is [TS]

  like the best apocalypse you could [TS]

  possibly wish for if you're this guy [TS]

  right i mean yeah some people died but i [TS]

  got my plane I'm looking around I mean a [TS]

  new girl i'm doing ok i could build [TS]

  orphans love me as compared to the road [TS]

  it's a pretty general well gee awesome [TS]

  lips I got the feeling like listen [TS]

  reading all the writing I got the [TS]

  feeling that he at least the author but [TS]

  it came thru is the character was more [TS]

  in love with the nature of the [TS]

  surrounding area where he went hunting [TS]

  fishing sure then he was I distraught [TS]

  over his wife dying like the love he [TS]

  felt for like descriptions of like the [TS]

  bark in the clouds and then the the [TS]

  river water i felt the authors love for [TS]

  that more than I felt the characters [TS]

  love for his deceased 126 which is a [TS]

  problem in the book I think he goes [TS]

  realistically speaking I would imagine [TS]

  you'd be more upset that you're working [TS]

  i don't disagree with John get together [TS]

  10 years ago because I feel like he's [TS]

  the reason that he wakes up in this book [TS]

  that we know when we first meet him he's [TS]

  in that bizarre few mentally impounded [TS]

  state is because he's dealing not just [TS]

  with a lost civilization with the loss [TS]

  of his family like I feel felt like that [TS]

  that said this was definitely with him i [TS]

  didn't i didn't feel like they have [TS]

  flashbacks to his wife is like I had a [TS]

  wife and I had to smother her with a [TS]

  pillow was a real bummer but anyway let [TS]

  me tell you about the park on street [TS]

  it's awesome you know like maybe that [TS]

  was supposed to be a transference type [TS]

  thing but like the attention i lavished [TS]

  with the writing on to those things [TS]

  didn't and then we can compare it with [TS]

  the road where I think the the attention [TS]

  lavished on the things that the main [TS]

  character cares about in that book is [TS]

  proportional to how much they're trying [TS]

  to get that you would think he would [TS]

  care about them so i think both of these [TS]

  books have a main character who is [TS]

  seeking Redemption and and in many ways [TS]

  fines fines it at the end [TS]

  the difference is that the redemption [TS]

  rig is I think it's a girlfriend and the [TS]

  kids loved him and he can get so to have [TS]

  a trucks and stuff and and all of that [TS]

  was on the road there's the the [TS]

  redemption is a much colder variety but [TS]

  it is similar in that way that he's on [TS]

  he's searching and he's trying to try to [TS]

  make his world better and his buddy [TS]

  bangla is not making his world better [TS]

  and said they're just keeps staying [TS]

  alive and by the end he's reset things [TS]

  and has has made it you know at least [TS]

  taken us step toward being a better a [TS]

  better community [TS]

  yeah you know I idea i like to do i I [TS]

  there are issues I have with it but I I [TS]

  like how it how it is about a guy like [TS]

  essentially abandoning the you know [TS]

  killer be killed a novel that he's been [TS]

  written into and saying I'm out of here [TS]

  and going in and having this having this [TS]

  adventure you know I like that aspect of [TS]

  it i think i like to less than all of [TS]

  you although I will give this to it i do [TS]

  like books about the end of the world [TS]

  which seems like a single time ever on a [TS]

  book club the last 1i was when we read [TS]

  like those those apocalyptic a short [TS]

  stories yeah right so I do like those [TS]

  types of books and this one did to keep [TS]

  me turning the pages to see what [TS]

  happened uh but i would not read it [TS]

  again and would not recommend somebody [TS]

  read it because it's like it's like it [TS]

  because it because of the amazing [TS]

  similarities to the road right down to [TS]

  the writing style the road is so much [TS]

  better and I enjoyed it so much more i [TS]

  agree that is a nice where dogs are as i [TS]

  read the road it's better and it was not [TS]

  the best people 13 if you can only read [TS]

  one you should hit the road but i just [TS]

  want to say though and I mean this is [TS]

  the point of this episode of the [TS]

  incomparable but i think it's totally [TS]

  unfair to that and everybody does it but [TS]

  I think it's totally unfair to compare [TS]

  these two books in a sense of you know [TS]

  saying these are two books that are the [TS]

  same things I think they're totally [TS]

  everything they're trying to do totally [TS]

  different things i think one book is [TS]

  about a Father's love for his son [TS]

  yeah and i think one book is about a man [TS]

  who's lost everything is trying to [TS]

  identify himself on a man's love for his [TS]

  dog and I decided premise wiser and yes [TS]

  they're both looking into the world but [TS]

  i think that i think they're totally [TS]

  different books I think they both are [TS]

  very good eye [TS]

  only one is much better than the other I [TS]

  would like I i well I wish to put it [TS]

  this way i thought we were gonna come on [TS]

  the show and all complained about the [TS]

  dog starts with him right before the [TS]

  show I saw Scott's thing that you [TS]

  thought this is the best book like I'm [TS]

  gonna be only one who didn't like this [TS]

  book and sure he didn't read the road in [TS]

  January I I didn't say I thought it was [TS]

  the best book he's not allowed to the [TS]

  one that you dread that month that you [TS]

  read like 50 bucks a month so that's [TS]

  saying something that's true but I also [TS]

  said it's much worse than the road [TS]

  yes that's that's true AI found it i can [TS]

  i find memorable and I have visions of [TS]

  like how I pictured parts of this book [TS]

  we should also talk about the end before [TS]

  we move onto the road and get really [TS]

  depressed which is the end is the end [TS]

  that you're thinking of the enemy they [TS]

  come back and they find that bangle has [TS]

  been injured and the kind of nurse him [TS]

  back to health and and he brings the [TS]

  woman who was a doctor to the kids and [TS]

  sheets-sheet they've always kept a [TS]

  distance and they touch the kids and no [TS]

  yeah it's so nice and there are jet [TS]

  trails from mysterious jets with arabic [TS]

  on the radio that are going overhead [TS]

  it's like where they coming from where [TS]

  they going to and how is it that there [TS]

  are people flying jets and you get the [TS]

  sense that from his perspective it's [TS]

  like dang I know I want to fly a jet [TS]

  I just got the stupid Cessna is that [TS]

  mean that's that's how it ends right or [TS]

  am i forgetting something [TS]

  now you've pretty much got it like that [TS]

  but it they want you to save the like of [TS]

  it now they're one big happy family [TS]

  bangli didn't kill everyone on site he [TS]

  was almost killed but he bravely fought [TS]

  them off and now they have for people's [TS]

  learning thing and i have they have a [TS]

  doctor for the people with the blood [TS]

  disease the building a community father [TS]

  and bangla get along great for some [TS]

  reason even though bangles and a firm [TS]

  psychopath and the father is seemingly a [TS]

  normal person I know and then like that [TS]

  they're born big happy family and then [TS]

  they have that be the rumors of the [TS]

  Arabs and the jet things and stuff like [TS]

  that maybe setting up for secrecy and [TS]

  about or is it [TS]

  yeah the end to it that that's it I mean [TS]

  I guess I ice thought that bangli and [TS]

  father were kind of bonding over there [TS]

  kind of knowledge of weaponry and [TS]

  survival right because they were the [TS]

  survivalists of the pic of their pairs [TS]

  yeah but one of them like the father was [TS]

  like straight arrow legitimate military [TS]

  family would have killed him the second [TS]

  he put down your weapons that had just [TS]

  want to talk and then both through that [TS]

  I was always pictured bangli is being [TS]

  like it [TS]

  it was who's the guy with the hat in in [TS]

  a in king of the hill who was the gun [TS]

  nuttin on that I don't know that's [TS]

  that's how I pictured bangla is he's [TS]

  he's kind of a he has big ideas about [TS]

  himself but in fact he is you know he's [TS]

  just kind of a gun nut who's got his big [TS]

  break [TS]

  oh yeah the world ended now I can put my [TS]

  plan into place where as the father is [TS]

  like a military guy and actually knows [TS]

  what he's doing [TS]

  so yeah why do they get along I don't [TS]

  know at the end of the world you gotta [TS]

  find it was that it was a very advanced [TS]

  but relatively speaking was a happy [TS]

  ending people there was a nice happen if [TS]

  you can be little hope we will be grown [TS]

  and changes characters like no character [TS]

  cared about died except for the dog that [TS]

  was kind of a middle of typing it and [TS]

  you know they don't live forever anyway [TS]

  no nobody this transfer special hot dogs [TS]

  well I ask Allie does but you know [TS]

  that's a deep exhale right yeah no [TS]

  that's good that's good we got two [TS]

  little cloud breakfast final repose [TS]

  there but yes i agree with John if you [TS]

  can only for some reason through 12 but [TS]

  I don't know when we got the time i [TS]

  would say don't don't read the docs and [TS]

  I do i would say you're anything you [TS]

  write it off completely say don't even [TS]

  bother i think it's very good and worth [TS]

  reading [TS]

  I i would not I i would not have chosen [TS]

  to read it if it wasn't for this podcast [TS]

  and although it kept me turning pages in [TS]

  it i would not recommend what more can a [TS]

  book to follow a lot more a lot more put [TS]

  it this way remember in the name of the [TS]

  wind books like the killer chronicles i [TS]

  like both those books way more than the [TS]

  dogstars well those were good books too [TS]

  yeah I think you liked this book so i'm [TS]

  not super however saying people use a [TS]

  bit like just because I criticize [TS]

  something that doesn't mean i think it's [TS]

  not worth reading press 1i maybe just [TS]

  didn't like the author like it didn't [TS]

  yeah I don't like this one did not [TS]

  connect all right fair not fair [TS]

  wheres cotton and lex and i liked it i I [TS]

  didn't love it i was at the two books i [TS]

  got for christmas were the brook and [TS]

  dogstars the work was way better this [TS]

  but i liked it was right that one too [TS]

  I made the wrong choice ok we should [TS]

  talk about the road Cormac McCarthy 2006 [TS]

  oprah's book club selection winner of [TS]

  the Pulitzer Prize opens know about your [TS]

  personal but select the copy i have is a [TS]

  is an Oprah Book Club [TS]

  heart paperback trade paperback form [TS]

  like this the only one you have in paper [TS]

  i do happen I want that's how long ago i [TS]

  read this actually bought in the airport [TS]

  when I was I had no books to read and I [TS]

  was gonna take a long flight and I did [TS]

  just come out and paper rushed into [TS]

  paper because of Oprah cause of Oprah is [TS]

  open wanted to make people sad i have in [TS]

  pdb format which tells you how old it [TS]

  wow yeah I i also have it in paper [TS]

  format and i should note i offered to [TS]

  give my copy to lex and he refused it [TS]

  right i said that i would was reading [TS]

  about my kindle it's the only way i read [TS]

  i don't want your filthy Scott copy [TS]

  right I regretted now I should have [TS]

  taken it just because it would be only a [TS]

  McNulty book and I can't believe I don't [TS]

  you could write secret notes in the [TS]

  margin yesternight it and I would never [TS]

  see them because I don't read books this [TS]

  character reminds me of yous got you [TS]

  read it again when you forgot your [TS]

  attitude about five years now i could [TS]

  happen that could happen [TS]

  this was so obviously open elected the [TS]

  Pulitzer committee liked it [TS]

  what if they know they made a movie out [TS]

  of it with viggo mortensen right which i [TS]

  haven't seen I haven't seen it [TS]

  alright migrate least surprising movie [TS]

  review ever happen [TS]

  yeah I think about movies that I really [TS]

  like and I hate movies that i really [TS]

  hate and some of them are in the middle [TS]

  that's weird i don't know i don't know [TS]

  how to react to that John i have a [TS]

  complete range that's interesting that's [TS]

  right sometimes I imagined you as sort [TS]

  of our bangli this little come on let's [TS]

  have some fun no mm no I got a tower [TS]

  here [TS]

  ok I'm defended the tower that's what [TS]

  I'll do who's big no-no is a big I'm [TS]

  like a dog are so I die it's really [TS]

  early on because you got to get to sleep [TS]

  okay [TS]

  the road you know it doesn't have a lot [TS]

  of punctuation I guess that's a Cormac [TS]

  McCarthy thing I actually haven't read [TS]

  any of his other novels [TS]

  has anybody anyone I mean no but I would [TS]

  because of how much I liked the road it [TS]

  is so great it is it is one of if I to [TS]

  make a list of like the 10 my 10 [TS]

  favorite books i think it would be on it [TS]

  I don't know where it would rank or [TS]

  anything like that but it is it as much [TS]

  as we said it's dark it's dark as a as a [TS]

  book can get it is depressing in some [TS]

  ways as a book can get I think I told [TS]

  this selects before he read it I said [TS]

  you know you gotta read the road like I [TS]

  don't know but it is it is one of my the [TS]

  best books that I've read and it is [TS]

  about a post-apocalyptic world and this [TS]

  is not a clean apocalypse this is the [TS]

  dirtiest of the dirty apocalypse right [TS]

  this is the this is not even the people [TS]

  have died this is every living thing is [TS]

  dying there's like no plants anymore [TS]

  everything is kind of like a gray mush [TS]

  and whatever it was involved a [TS]

  tremendous amount of fire and there are [TS]

  still as international everywhere yeah [TS]

  this is a great example because this [TS]

  premise also makes no sense but it shows [TS]

  that if you are good enough rider [TS]

  doesn't matter it doesn't matter you [TS]

  hear that your friends makes no sense [TS]

  and you won't let you won't be expected [TS]

  to explain it when she doesn't which is [TS]

  fine like you're you're willing to [TS]

  forgive a lot like we talked about the [TS]

  writing without the punctuation and [TS]

  everything it's a type of thing where [TS]

  like when you see those car commercials [TS]

  and they say a professional driver close [TS]

  quarters do not attempt like that's this [TS]

  right you know that's what I feel like [TS]

  Peter how should it looks like it's not [TS]

  easy it's hard enough to write a [TS]

  straight-ahead book where you just write [TS]

  regular pros you just do it in the [TS]

  format novels do it or whatever he's [TS]

  making his life more difficult by [TS]

  writing this incredibly stylized away [TS]

  just like that people follow along and [TS]

  how do you express that is just amazing [TS]

  that he manages to do it in an [TS]

  unconventional way and keep everything [TS]

  so you can tell what's going on and get [TS]

  you wrapped up in the story and deliver [TS]

  emotions and that he uses this different [TS]

  style to convey things that would not be [TS]

  as easy to convey with all the typical [TS]

  punctuation everything so i was really [TS]

  the first book of his i read it was as [TS]

  well and I was blown away by the writing [TS]

  even beyond the sewing I did not think [TS]

  that the lack of punctuation help the [TS]

  story i don't think it hurt but I take [TS]

  some getting used to it's a style thing [TS]

  it takes some getting onto like the [TS]

  spirit of consciousness it's not just [TS]

  like punctuation that he won't do [TS]

  paragraph breaks for changes in speech [TS]

  or when something so it'll be into it [TS]

  it reads more like a spirit cautious [TS]

  type diary just like writing stuff out [TS]

  and I think that lends an air of sort of [TS]

  misery and you know sort of like it that [TS]

  the trenching through and just like that [TS]

  you know that you're alone with your [TS]

  thoughts and you don't know what's going [TS]

  on things just one flows into the other [TS]

  and the fact that there's only two [TS]

  people like two characters in the book [TS]

  the boy and his father [TS]

  there's no need for the structure [TS]

  because they are the only two people [TS]

  left in the world and I thought that did [TS]

  add to it i thought it i thought having [TS]

  those phrases out there and then when he [TS]

  does choose to break them up like big [TS]

  block paragraph conversation and then [TS]

  broken up with not just line breaks but [TS]

  separate paragraphs for the lines of [TS]

  more significant exchanges I thought [TS]

  that adds to the experience to maybe [TS]

  it's just a novelty of ever read like [TS]

  five of his books and seconded by [TS]

  creating the one that really work did we [TS]

  do this in opposite this book and we [TS]

  have we told the people what it's about [TS]

  well so i can do that it is again it's [TS]

  not even post-apocalyptic it's like the [TS]

  world isn't coming to an end in the road [TS]

  the world hasn't ended [TS]

  there's nothing there's no the first [TS]

  page of the book is the end yeah there's [TS]

  nothing like nothing is alive [TS]

  basically I it's so post-apocalyptic [TS]

  that all vegetation has been destroyed [TS]

  either by the cut the calamity or by the [TS]

  people in the aftermath of it there are [TS]

  no animals alive anymore they've all [TS]

  been killed know you know insects [TS]

  there's nothing laughing eat [TS]

  there's just drink people and the [TS]

  detritus that was left behind by people [TS]

  and this father who and their no-name [TS]

  characters in this the father and the [TS]

  Son the mother during the calamity [TS]

  killed herself as she was pregnant with [TS]

  the boy and the boy is delivered and [TS]

  raised by the father and they decide [TS]

  that winter is coming but not that way [TS]

  George for their no dragons [TS]

  winter is coming and they can survive [TS]

  where they are so they they go walk down [TS]

  the road toward the South hoping to find [TS]

  someplace warmer because it you know it [TS]

  be implicated in the implication is that [TS]

  there's a nuclear winter kind of thing [TS]

  going on and everything is really messed [TS]

  up and so they head down our road with a [TS]

  like a shopping cart and that the [TS]

  problem is they're not the last two [TS]

  people alive there are still people [TS]

  alive and they're the ones who survived [TS]

  by largely killing other people and are [TS]

  not shameless about it and there's a lot [TS]

  of kind of horrible things that they see [TS]

  that our house [TS]

  opening when people are trying to [TS]

  survive by killing other people and [TS]

  taking their stuff and and eating them [TS]

  because there are no animals to eat so [TS]

  they're eating other people and that's [TS]

  where we got that aforementioned baby on [TS]

  the spit and that you know and that was [TS]

  probably the worst of the book [TS]

  yeah that was one of the people the [TS]

  basement is quite the people basically [TS]

  what i would say is it a tie [TS]

  Hera wing stuff that happens and then at [TS]

  the at the end i'm not going to spoil [TS]

  her horn this because come on guys this [TS]

  book's been out for you know six seven [TS]

  years at the end happy the father dies [TS]

  but because he was suffering from a [TS]

  sickness you get stickers by the [TS]

  post-apocalyptic conditions that are [TS]

  living in that his lung disease it was [TS]

  clear from the beginning it's just a [TS]

  matter of time whereas coughing worse [TS]

  and he's going to die so during the [TS]

  whole book you know that's gonna happen [TS]

  you know that he knows that's gonna [TS]

  happen and you kinda sorta know the kids [TS]

  senses as well we'll just put this giant [TS]

  dark cloud cloud over all the [TS]

  proceedings as if you didn't need [TS]

  another thing that I i well we were [TS]

  talking about these books right at the [TS]

  start I was saying how post-apocalyptic [TS]

  books to press me in large part because [TS]

  i realize how ineffectual I would be [TS]

  post-apocalyptic Lee although it still [TS]

  pick a better place to live in John but [TS]

  i am you know this one really was [TS]

  emotional because you can tell i mean i [TS]

  don't know i had a father I couldn't [TS]

  help but picture me with my own son or [TS]

  other kid and wanting to do not use on [TS]

  children right thinking of [TS]

  thank you how you know how you're going [TS]

  to bring the school I was thinking about [TS]

  how did this kid learn language how does [TS]

  this kid know what half these words mean [TS]

  that his father is using to refer to [TS]

  things that no longer exists but I [TS]

  should think about how you try to teach [TS]

  them how you try to motivate him to walk [TS]

  each day but I mean I don't know to me [TS]

  is the book is really less about the [TS]

  existence of the Apocalypse than it is [TS]

  about you know this father trying to do [TS]

  best by his so in this situation where [TS]

  best is extremely lousy yeah this is us [TS]

  this is a story about this what i told [TS]

  you when I told you need to read this is [TS]

  this is the this is the best thing i [TS]

  have ever read about a parent's love for [TS]

  their child [TS]

  that's right there as well as and and [TS]

  what would you do for your children and [TS]

  you know and and I think I've told the [TS]

  story of a podcast before but when [TS]

  you're when you're a parent and sorry [TS]

  sorry Scott I'm going to just you can [TS]

  tune out for something but when you're a [TS]

  parent [TS]

  things happen that completely away like [TS]

  I remember walking on a sidewalk over [TS]

  like an overpass with my with my [TS]

  daughter when she was little and this [TS]

  guy was coming the other way and all of [TS]

  a sudden I thought with that can try [TS]

  something I'm going to kill him like I'm [TS]

  gonna I'm gonna kill him and even if it [TS]

  even if I die I'm going to protect my [TS]

  child because it was like precarious and [TS]

  it was this high place that we were [TS]

  walking over and it's just you know what [TS]

  will we did that come from the answer is [TS]

  I'm gonna pretend I'm gonna do anything [TS]

  I can to protect my children the magic [TS]

  of evolution and I know and this book [TS]

  that I mean that's really what it is is [TS]

  there's there's kind of nothing that can [TS]

  be done you could just give up but he's [TS]

  a father and he's taking care of his son [TS]

  and he's not gonna give up and you know [TS]

  that that's what this is about really [TS]

  more than anything else is it doesn't [TS]

  matter what the world is going to throw [TS]

  at you and how hopeless it actually is [TS]

  his you know his only duty is to protect [TS]

  his son as much as you can that's why i [TS]

  don't see it is as so much of depressing [TS]

  book because I like under the year ended [TS]

  on your circumstances you're like well [TS]

  I'm living in a regular world the world [TS]

  goes on but i'm going to i would [TS]

  sacrifice myself to save my child but [TS]

  this scenario in the book is so much [TS]

  more dire be what am I even saving for [TS]

  like yeah what's the what's the point [TS]

  and to be able to like this the strength [TS]

  of the the father character in the book [TS]

  is to be able to he's fighting against [TS]

  the idea of like the pointlessness of it [TS]

  all [TS]

  why you know day-to-day so what I'm [TS]

  extending his life in this horrible [TS]

  world seems like we're all going to die [TS]

  anyway and it seems like an obvious i'm [TS]

  going to die from the sickness and my [TS]

  son is going to die anyway because even [TS]

  if no one kills them or eat them or [TS]

  anything like that like there's no [TS]

  future for him or whatever and yet he [TS]

  despite this these conditions does not [TS]

  fall into the depths of despair and [TS]

  continues to fight the good fight for [TS]

  his son right up to the bitter end [TS]

  despite the the condition so it's like [TS]

  trying for you know a triumph of his own [TS]

  willpower not to succumb to the darkness [TS]

  took his wife you know I mean so I find [TS]

  it's kind of an uplifting message [TS]

  seeking I definitely don't agree with [TS]

  that and i think that this is probably [TS]

  why I think I enjoyed the book the least [TS]

  of the panelists i really liked the book [TS]

  and that's another one that i recommend [TS]

  but [TS]

  and the thing I wrestled with upon [TS]

  finishing the book and we we do try to [TS]

  end on a slightly uplifting note you [TS]

  know the boys gonna go be with some [TS]

  other people who are also surviving for [TS]

  the hell of it you see you assume those [TS]

  people are not going to eat them right [TS]

  but I felt pretty confident about that [TS]

  but I am I don't know I I felt like [TS]

  maybe we the father has not made the [TS]

  right decision that may be the better [TS]

  way to serve this kid and himself mr. [TS]

  motherboard out of their misery and I [TS]

  don't have time i offer a Lexus children [TS]

  a Cylon my castle and the hottest father [TS]

  apparently is decided you're not worth [TS]

  saving [TS]

  you have your welcome to comedy well no [TS]

  I mean this is exactly do you know Jason [TS]

  the point a long time ago about Robert [TS]

  Kirkman and the walking dead and Lords I [TS]

  have said to each other hang himself yes [TS]

  right Lauren and I said to each other [TS]

  that if there was on the apocalypse [TS]

  would kill all the children and [TS]

  ourselves like we're not going to have [TS]

  them go through the anything if you know [TS]

  I don't have to be really sure that [TS]

  right thank you [TS]

  I think here's Bobby I'll be right back [TS]

  united game of thrones he's just a man [TS]

  with the limp like horrible i have to [TS]

  you know be okay while I'm ranting about [TS]

  this blog excuse there's other things [TS]

  that the bottom and again I want to [TS]

  stress i really liked the book but here [TS]

  are three things that stuck out to me [TS]

  that I don't like this is off the top of [TS]

  my head down and watch them it really [TS]

  bothers me that the boy does not happen [TS]

  name i understand that it's where [TS]

  post-apocalyptic there's nothing to live [TS]

  for and everything is horrible but it [TS]

  really makes me a tough boy should have [TS]

  a name a father should have a name that [TS]

  he calls his son he may have a name but [TS]

  we just don't know what he has a name [TS]

  they just doesn't say it but he never [TS]

  says that the father never says we have [TS]

  many many many lines of dialogue why he [TS]

  wanted you need to address them by name [TS]

  who else is going to become the person [TS]

  that was a boy should have a name [TS]

  the boy needs an identity the boys [TS]

  having that I think I think he has 1i [TS]

  think he has a name to we just don't [TS]

  know I want to hear it [TS]

  the father should use the name alright [TS]

  so the father should use the boy's name [TS]

  it will help you get more [TS]

  self-confidence in school it's a really [TS]

  embarrassing name like a Luger some yeah [TS]

  yeah that's not you don't want to use it [TS]

  really Kim can't pronounce it being too [TS]

  is they find that this beautiful theater [TS]

  bunker shelter i have the fallout [TS]

  shelter yes they find the beautiful buzz [TS]

  my favorite part of the book and leave [TS]

  it way too soon and why don't we fight [TS]

  to keep this thing for a little bit [TS]

  where they forced out no he's just like [TS]

  no no with this is a witness is out [TS]

  undercover people will find it [TS]

  he says it's like nobody found it so far [TS]

  exactly what's the other alternative [TS]

  dude you're gonna over they might kill [TS]

  us well you're gonna die anyway want to [TS]

  die happy [TS]

  surrounded by canned food i did read in [TS]

  John time ago but I i seem to recall a [TS]

  bit at least I understood from my [TS]

  perspective when i read that part it was [TS]

  like I believed when the man said we [TS]

  have to leave because of x y&z I was [TS]

  like all that makes sense given what I [TS]

  know this world so I didn't think they [TS]

  left it too soon i was sad when they [TS]

  left but I i agreed with the [TS]

  inevitability of them having to leave [TS]

  and like maybe you know I i had exactly [TS]

  Jason thought was that this has been [TS]

  nobody has found this in all this time [TS]

  this is horse for the keeping and I [TS]

  would rather die then on the road and I [TS]

  may never find supplies there so [TS]

  presumably they would have gone through [TS]

  everything anybody you didn't years I [TS]

  don't think it will ask them you know [TS]

  didn't he ballpark that the figure on it [TS]

  when he found the place that it was like [TS]

  you know it's couple of good months [TS]

  maybe a year but not you know not [TS]

  everybody can do it you I think you [TS]

  would opt to take that year as opposed [TS]

  to traipsing around in understandable [TS]

  castle with you with your shopping that [TS]

  goes back to his his philosophy here [TS]

  which is he he's not he's not content [TS]

  with biding time and just having them [TS]

  die he's trying to do whatever he can to [TS]

  keep your son alive and and live his [TS]

  life and in that bunker if they get to [TS]

  the end I guess the idea would be you [TS]

  get to the end of it and then you just [TS]

  move on but I think he's feeling like [TS]

  the bad weather is pressing on them and [TS]

  they need to keep moving and and you [TS]

  know he's really focused on this end [TS]

  game and the endgame is kind of [TS]

  questionable right the endgame is well [TS]

  we won't be dead yet and he'll be [TS]

  further south and maybe things will be [TS]

  better and maybe we'll find something [TS]

  maybe things are okay at South America [TS]

  with flickering last bit of flickering [TS]

  hope that's left in the world and if we [TS]

  stay here we're kind of just saying [TS]

  we're gonna eat and then we're gonna die [TS]

  so we're going to keep moving with that [TS]

  last bit of home plus mechanically [TS]

  speaking like you can't the book can't [TS]

  come to a conclusion that the healthy of [TS]

  the place you know I mean I could've [TS]

  just done a fast forward in time like [TS]

  and a year passes and well kids were out [TS]

  of supplies you know that would've [TS]

  solved that mechanically speaking you [TS]

  need to you need to get them out of the [TS]

  bunker to get to the rest of the book [TS]

  yeah I just the the other thing that [TS]

  this is very difficult for me as a [TS]

  father I guess again was you know it at [TS]

  least for me I think I might have been a [TS]

  little bit slow on this and then I [TS]

  wasn't getting the point right away or [TS]

  maybe it's intentionally written so that [TS]

  you only slowly realize what's going on [TS]

  but the boys trained to use a gun at [TS]

  first I thought the boy was trained to [TS]

  use the gun and he knew what he had to [TS]

  do with the gun in an emergency was you [TS]

  know to help kill the bad guys but [TS]

  eventually realized that in fact no he [TS]

  needs to use the gun to kill himself if [TS]

  they're going to be captured so that he [TS]

  won't be eaten or so that he won't have [TS]

  to suffer somebody else's hand I guess [TS]

  before he was even he'll probably still [TS]

  be but I didn't I objected to the father [TS]

  teaching his son that I think that's a [TS]

  lot to put on a son that kids at it then [TS]

  you just go through how you're going to [TS]

  kill your kids ambiance and your [TS]

  grandfather kill them but i'm going to [TS]

  teach them inside kill the final [TS]

  seriously so they want to see their [TS]

  siblings go from they can see the kids i [TS]

  want to say that they can see there [TS]

  want to say that they can see there [TS]

  please I they're only gonna have two [TS]

  seconds to suffer from that but I'm just [TS]

  saying I don't like I'm not teaching my [TS]

  kids to kill themselves the problem i [TS]

  have with your plan [TS]

  Lex profanity not the slaughtering [TS]

  children not that's what's really [TS]

  offensive when you get down to it [TS]

  that's right the bark ellipse is no [TS]

  place for profanity but typically yeah i [TS]

  think if i hopes so on these podcast [TS]

  before we talked about apocalypses in [TS]

  the the book club we did last year and [TS]

  in the walking dead and and and some [TS]

  others and I always talk about the clean [TS]

  apocalypse and the dirty apocalypse and [TS]

  I clean apocalypses bother me that [TS]

  people are it's the end of the world but [TS]

  everybody's watch their hair and you [TS]

  know their supplies and it's fine and [TS]

  and one of the reasons that I really [TS]

  love the road and maybe this says [TS]

  something about me as a person and my [TS]

  about my view of humanity is I look at [TS]

  the road and think [TS]

  yep that's what would happen in [TS]

  Apocalypse this is how the end of the [TS]

  world happens is everybody kills [TS]

  everybody else does horrible things it [TS]

  cannibalism you name it whatever it's [TS]

  not there's no there's no semblance of [TS]

  civilization you know the you know clean [TS]

  apocalypse stories are these fantasies [TS]

  of well you know the world ended but [TS]

  that's good for us because we have our [TS]

  little community and i look at the road [TS]

  and I'm like yep i think for whatever [TS]

  reason I this is this is how i view the [TS]

  end of the world is that it's gonna end [TS]

  like this it's not gonna even hit and [TS]

  his buddies have their like a little [TS]

  time at the at the airport the fact is [TS]

  the gas is going to run out everything [TS]

  is gonna go bad and in the end [TS]

  everybody's gonna kill each other and [TS]

  either revert to just barbarism in that [TS]

  case or in this case everybody will just [TS]

  be dead [TS]

  well does that does that up p on the PLT [TS]

  over like you really think that's what [TS]

  would happen because assuming people [TS]

  could live on like even if you send them [TS]

  back to caveman times though reinvent [TS]

  will be right by guys with drones a [TS]

  progressively would restrict the failure [TS]

  the failure in there [TS]

  this is the reason why the road pushes [TS]

  it beyond the limits as the road has [TS]

  created a catastrophe so enormous that [TS]

  there's nothing left and it's literally [TS]

  have to come back nobody's going to make [TS]

  it this is this is so clearly the end [TS]

  of everything and in reality our world [TS]

  and our ecosystem is remarkably [TS]

  resilient and and even you know it would [TS]

  try as we might the world still going to [TS]

  be here and life is going to be on it [TS]

  and maybe even people are going to be on [TS]

  it in a park after the apocalypse but [TS]

  you're right they would root they would [TS]

  return to savagery and in the road and [TS]

  pushes it a little beyond that but i [TS]

  think it captures that slavery like [TS]

  savagery yeah life is ending and like [TS]

  this not going to be anything left which [TS]

  you know again it's on that doesn't make [TS]

  any sense it is unrealistic for the [TS]

  purposes of the book that's the premise [TS]

  and they don't have to explain it you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah but i do like I like that aspect of [TS]

  it it's like unapologetically like you [TS]

  know heat demand has this hope but it's [TS]

  a completely unreasonable hope because [TS]

  every sign everywhere literally every [TS]

  sign is that it's over [TS]

  and yet he will not give up and we're [TS]

  trying to take care of this just like [TS]

  the keeper of the flavors are hearing [TS]

  the final exam sort of metaphor for two [TS]

  despite the fact that it's hopeless [TS]

  you should still continue on whatever [TS]

  flame is the Lex doesn't have that's [TS]

  what I mean teach you the Johnny [TS]

  references before I think this scene [TS]

  where they they happened upon a house [TS]

  that could be greater than turns out [TS]

  that it's got a basement dungeon with [TS]

  people who they're slowly eating a piece [TS]

  by piece like that you don't want did [TS]

  you buy that like to get me Jason you're [TS]

  saying you like the dirty pakistan and i [TS]

  would agree but I i think it i mean the [TS]

  this guy is know that the guy at the [TS]

  center of our story who is also nameless [TS]

  does not seem like he is a special or [TS]

  unique in any way that he's just kind of [TS]

  a good guy in his inclination was never [TS]

  hey let's eat people we find I feel like [TS]

  it was the book almost took it too easy [TS]

  and said you know what a lot of these [TS]

  people are just eating other people [TS]

  because that's all the food they can [TS]

  find but he's finding ways to stay alive [TS]

  without resorting to eating people [TS]

  I don't know that I could eat a person [TS]

  when there were any other options but [TS]

  most of those people have been eaten by [TS]

  this point that's actually I don't go [TS]

  back to the dogs is another thing like [TS]

  there is an people eating in the dog [TS]

  stars as well and it's like why you've [TS]

  got deer and like I mean I know you say [TS]

  like some of that the big Fisher going [TS]

  away trucks full of stuff [TS]

  Twinkies are in the trucks with the soda [TS]

  like that seems [TS]

  increases there is just seemed like it [TS]

  was a blogger we have to eat people but [TS]

  this is what happens again with the road [TS]

  behind the road though like I got the [TS]

  feeling that the father and the son were [TS]

  not being we're not successful they were [TS]

  not being do it you know succeeding and [TS]

  supposed to popular works the degree [TS]

  that the guys who like had a house and [TS]

  had a system for enslaving meeting [TS]

  people they seem to be more like these [TS]

  guys I felt that it was kind of like [TS]

  that you know salmon for a walkthrough [TS]

  Mordor they're just like they're just [TS]

  put upon by the weather by just like [TS]

  everything that constantly running out [TS]

  of food they're not thriving and the [TS]

  post-apocalyptic world not even to the [TS]

  degree that the the crazy cannibal so I [TS]

  feel like cannibalism was actually more [TS]

  successful strategy in terms of standard [TS]

  of living but they're not doing it for [TS]

  moral reasons right not that I i agree [TS]

  with everything you just said I'm just [TS]

  saying I'm surprised I don't know the [TS]

  book suggested to me at least that the [TS]

  vast majority of survivors were on board [TS]

  with eat or be easy and that's that [TS]

  struck me as unusual [TS]

  well you know the the vast majority do [TS]

  not need to be on board put the way just [TS]

  people who have to common grounds are [TS]

  going to eat every betfair all right [TS]

  so--okay so we're far enough along that [TS]

  survival of the hungriest has left it so [TS]

  that the only people after the eaters if [TS]

  you go with the optimistic scenario the [TS]

  end of the book the guys the boy finds [TS]

  on the beach presumably those are more [TS]

  of the good people if you believe that [TS]

  that's what they have to be because they [TS]

  are the roads that is following him for [TS]

  so Lawrence if they weren't if they were [TS]

  anything but good people they wouldn't [TS]

  have kept following them for so long [TS]

  without capturing meeting why were they [TS]

  what makes you believe they're falling [TS]

  for so long they told us so [TS]

  oh that's okay one line they wouldn't [TS]

  like me and like it's very optimistic [TS]

  about yeah i like the fact that it's [TS]

  ambiguous I the fact that they didn't do [TS]

  the and they lived happily ever after [TS]

  they took care of the boy who never [TS]

  anything bad happen to me can I like the [TS]

  fact that it's open to interpretation [TS]

  you can decide for yourself do you [TS]

  believe these people do not believe them [TS]

  is a deploy they can roast that boy or [TS]

  safe with them re or will he be safe [TS]

  within three days and the cannibals will [TS]

  get them all you know you're you're [TS]

  allowed to play that usually that annoys [TS]

  me but in this one I felt like the real [TS]

  ending of the book was the father died [TS]

  and that whole thing and this was just [TS]

  kind of like the epilogue and [TS]

  I was good with it being ambiguous was [TS]

  anybody else terrified during the boat [TS]

  scenes near the end I did not like that [TS]

  he kept leaving the kid for such long [TS]

  time and I've as a wall-sized a walking [TS]

  dead thing to watch your kids what are [TS]

  you doing [TS]

  keep your eye on them they're right [TS]

  there I don't know what the solution was [TS]

  what made ya the I thought for sure that [TS]

  something horrible is gonna happen to [TS]

  the kid which it did not well-liked at [TS]

  that point he was up against the wall [TS]

  because basically you know he was going [TS]

  to die he knew he was gonna die soon [TS]

  they they needed whatever always getting [TS]

  on the boat like medical supplies or [TS]

  something out like it was his endgame [TS]

  with that point is like a look at that [TS]

  if ever there was a time where I have to [TS]

  make this risk to leave my kid and you [TS]

  know like that busy died like 10 pages [TS]

  later right so a little longer yeah yeah [TS]

  I mean desperate times desperate [TS]

  measures but yeah i mean that's that's [TS]

  just an heightening tensions you know in [TS]

  terms of movies with kids in danger and [TS]

  stuff like that it wasn't gratuitous [TS]

  like it isn't walking dead where you [TS]

  just like a where you stay here and I'm [TS]

  not gonna watch I want you closer than [TS]

  this in the mall but independent zombie [TS]

  apocalypse you guys just go outside and [TS]

  play for a while I don't really pay [TS]

  attention to what you're doing i also [TS]

  like that in in this apocalypse my [TS]

  favorite apocalypse is where the people [TS]

  are the problem you know zombies are [TS]

  nice and all but zombies are like the [TS]

  weather you know any good even like in [TS]

  The Walking Dead the nice thing about it [TS]

  is the zombies are there but the problem [TS]

  is the people and that's what i like [TS]

  about the road is that you know the [TS]

  people are going to be people are way [TS]

  worse than zombies zombies can't think [TS]

  they just wander around people can plan [TS]

  and do horrible things that are more [TS]

  horrible because they thought out [TS]

  there's no radiation there's no no [TS]

  disease no alien invaders eating people [TS]

  is just everyone's dead [TS]

  well there's gray goo & rash and [TS]

  everything's been great girls just [TS]

  Asheville yeah well okay well reigns and [TS]

  then it's great to my guess and it's bad [TS]

  enough that greater good looking to [TS]

  improve our actually get description [TS]

  it's a totally different apocalypse the [TS]

  great google cup apocalypse [TS]

  yes [TS]

  yeah for lucky with blacks will be dead [TS]

  by then but you know that he's a dust [TS]

  bunnies often as well if I did you can [TS]

  trust that my children are too haha for [TS]

  their in John's magical castle in [TS]

  England that he's flown to in his [TS]

  transparent Jesse minas tirith you know [TS]

  it's built up against the mountain [TS]

  yeah good Edinburgh Castle that's where [TS]

  you're gonna be you're gonna be at the [TS]

  top of that bro Castle in Scotland up [TS]

  against the mountain [TS]

  perfect that's the way to do it can only [TS]

  be attacked you have a hang glider up [TS]

  there so if they really do surround you [TS]

  can just go see the suckers that you [TS]

  offer your hands i retreat into the [TS]

  glittering caves or whatever that's a [TS]

  home sleep okay many cat many passes [TS]

  fictional and non-fictional order that [TS]

  you're gonna flee into the lord of the [TS]

  rings in eastern apocalypse you might [TS]

  want to pick a non-fictional castle [TS]

  I don't know a little bit isn't it isn't [TS]

  home sleep real somewhere in New Zealand [TS]

  now it's made of styrofoam but that's [TS]

  perfect and are more defensible in an [TS]

  airport museum is good very defensible [TS]

  Waterhouse I'd that's true [TS]

  keep the invaders at bay you go down to [TS]

  the end of the peninsula can't be [TS]

  attacked by the water because of the [TS]

  giant cliffs behind you all your bid [TS]

  perfect alright it's the end of the [TS]

  world and it's the end of the podcast [TS]

  now none of us have survived [TS]

  I feel fine my skills all respect [TS]

  yourself place I didn't want you guys to [TS]

  self-service much thank you x haha yeah [TS]

  that's very nice [TS]

  now this has been this has been good [TS]

  this has been enjoyable to talk about [TS]

  the end of the world while the world is [TS]

  still here and I recommend both of these [TS]

  books [TS]

  Scott and I clearly agree and John agree [TS]

  that the road is the better of the two [TS]

  books Lex would you agree with that or [TS]

  do you prefer the dogstars the road is [TS]

  the better of the two books all right [TS]

  he sounds that you have issues but it's [TS]

  it happen oh it's which one would you [TS]

  choose to read again if i was going to [TS]

  be one again I wouldn't read the road [TS]

  again is too depressing [TS]

  irlam i would read the road again but [TS]

  that's what I it was really because [TS]

  apparently Lex's written notes in my [TS]

  copy so [TS]

  this is you this cancellation mascot is [TS]

  casted in the liner notes it's nice [TS]

  alright well until our next edition of [TS]

  the uncomfortable i want to thank my [TS]

  guests my complete reacts on this trip [TS]

  to the end of the world john siracusa [TS]

  great to have you back on the podcast [TS]

  thank you for reading the books at any [TS]

  time the world's gonna end i'll be there [TS]

  I know I know in your castle which is [TS]

  good that's how I like it [TS]

  Lex Friedman thank you for being on and [TS]

  joining us and staying up late to talk [TS]

  about a the end of the world [TS]

  it was a pleasure and Scott McNulty [TS]

  thank you as always for reading all the [TS]

  books I have a lot of time surrounded by [TS]

  jars so it's like at the end of the [TS]

  world you're gonna be like burgess [TS]

  Meredith at the end of the world right [TS]

  you could just don't break your glasses [TS]

  don't exactly have time enough that you [TS]

  know having a partner who who does [TS]

  canning as a hobby and for a living very [TS]

  useful in an apocalypse [TS]

  yes it's true merisa is also quite [TS]

  popular with the Doomsday Preppers so [TS]

  nice [TS]

  yeah that's going to need to know how to [TS]

  can't she has about she often says she [TS]

  has a valuable skill that could come in [TS]

  useful in an apocalypse [TS]

  I will not be able to help anyone with [TS]

  their qualifier so well I don't know [TS]

  what I'll do IT and the apocalypse by [TS]

  recruiting hours out sorry [TS]

  yeah so in many ways Scott's wife is [TS]

  sponsoring this episode we got it will [TS]

  because she will show you how to can [TS]

  things right food in jars com food in [TS]

  jars dot-com for all of your canning [TS]

  needs one the apocalypse hits have some [TS]

  pickles i can i can personally endorse [TS]

  food in jars because i have that book [TS]

  and it is excellent and my cupboards are [TS]

  full of food in jars made from recipes [TS]

  from that book so this is that this is a [TS]

  real opportunity I glad that she's in [TS]

  with the Doomsday Preppers because [TS]

  that's a those are her people now I'm [TS]

  just realizing that in the apocalypse I [TS]

  won't be able to read any of my books [TS]

  because they're all haha time you have [TS]

  to get my toffee that'll be the modern [TS]

  time enough at last [TS]

  it'll be it'll be the end of the world [TS]

  would be very happy and his kindle run [TS]

  out of battery [TS]

  No [TS]

  don't worry whatever page was last [TS]

  displayed as long as you find this is [TS]

  why i have several kiddles top of my [TS]

  face and a one-page Perkins they all [TS]

  turn into real page for the kindle [TS]

  reread the next page you know exactly [TS]

  safe and goes when you can put them [TS]

  together in a very large binding have a [TS]

  lot of times [TS]

  yeah why not alright until our next [TS]

  incomparable thanks everybody out there [TS]

  for listening to another edition of our [TS]

  book club you can go to our incomparable [TS]

  good book club goodreads group and find [TS]

  out what we're reading next I believe [TS]

  the plan is to read the graphic novel [TS]

  adaptation of a wrinkle in time as well [TS]

  and go back [TS]

  ideally and read the classic children's [TS]

  novel a wrinkle in time and then we'll [TS]

  cover that in a month or so but you can [TS]

  always tune in what we're looking at and [TS]

  have conversations with your fellow [TS]

  listeners at the goodreads group that is [TS]

  just search for the uncomfortable and [TS]

  we're there until next time is adjacent [TS]

  cell signing off thanks for listening [TS]