Roderick on the Line

00:00:01 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► hello hi John hi Mel run yeah John how's [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► it going good how are you good I'm [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► diddling a little bit with some new [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► audio and you're my first victim oh yeah [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► this could get real weird I don't know [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► what's happening what's happening there [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► oh I'm trying a new interface to my [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► computer tell me about it tell me more [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► about no I don't get too far is it an is [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► it an A to D converter [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► yeah no it's D D D all the way down just [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► like brothers-in-arms uh-huh am I [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► allowed to you know cuz I turned you [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► down okay [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► all right well I'm not peeking I got the [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► limiter dipswitch I hit the always [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► switch I'm always peeking here and I [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► don't understand why I've got this [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► little audio interface that has little [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► little meters on it and every time I [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► look down it looks right and then I look [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► away and I looked back and I've and I've [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► had a peak I've got some I've got red [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► and I'm and I was like I'm talking right [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► now talk this as loud as I get I'm not [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► peeking [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► yeah no I'm like a monkey with a slide [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► rule lalala I got this thing and I got [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► my 23 ban meter dingus that tells me how [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► I'm doing well bands like a Nakamichi [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► cereal it's pretty sweet anyways it's [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► the most wonderful time we having a good [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► week it can't be that bad oh man I did [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► an unusual thing what tell me well you [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► know it was some kind of podcast [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► conference here in town yes is that the [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► pod Conn pod con and I was put on by I [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► think Hank green and his brother Frank [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► green he's from the internet from the [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► internet mm-hm and and the the McElroy [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► brothers McElroy's and no one called me [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► spit out my beverage I'm [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► called you nobody called me now what now [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► some some fans called me some people [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► that were coming through town that were [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► like I'm coming to the podcast con oh [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► and you got coming at you both ways [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► people unempowered to have you up on the [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► stage they're saying hey where's John [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► Roderick that's right I had a I had a [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► local journalist who said hey can you [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► can you know can you introduce me to the [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► mek Elroy's mm-hmm I'm gonna get so many [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► letters from them from the McIlroy's [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► first and foremost but I think I think [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► they've I don't think they communicate [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► anymore I think I think they've had it [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► hmm well so apparently like they [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► mentioned me from the stage at their [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► show did they always they always thank [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► you at the end of their I don't listen [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► to their show but they always thank you [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► at the end of every episode and they say [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► we're to get a copy of your album it's [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► wonderful that they do that but no one [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► invited me to the pod con that's [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► happening in my own town and podcast [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► about the Wicked Witch and nobody has [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► the witch come yeah thank you [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► monkeys so all so but the thing is you [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► know when you ask me like how's my week [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► going all that was last week that ended [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► last night this is a brand new week [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► today is a this is all new yeah that's [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► true that's true but I had a friend in [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► town who was here to see the con and I [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► just got up early a and went out of the [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► house B to meet her for coffee you're [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► kidding me before the show hang on [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► oh yes you sure you sure you didn't get [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► your clock wrong on this very day where [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► you record with me at 10:00 a.m. Pacific [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► time you were already up and you've [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► already been out of the house and talk [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► to somebody was close I got up I started [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► the truck and let it warm up I got out [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► with a glove and wiped the frost off the [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► windows drove to Randy's I had a [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► chicken-fried steak in eggs oh my god [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► and then back in the saddle at 10:03 you [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► ate a chicken-fried steak this morning [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► and you're still awake [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► I already I'm just and I'm going to a [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► radio appearance after our show and [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► going to my psychiatrist no and then [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► after that I think I'm going to dinner [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► like fancy dinner somebody's doing all [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► these things in one day and one single [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► day so making up for all the other days [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► where I never do anything [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► it's a catch-up day well you can't catch [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► up oh man I've written down [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► chicken-fried steak cuz I need to talk [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► to you about food and sleep oh my god [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► I'm so proud of you what a day and then [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► only you shook it off you shook it off [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► even though the McElroy's and the greens [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► is is did not invite you to their con [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► you see you shook it off and you got you [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► got right back in the fray got back on [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► course that's right that's right boots [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► on the ground on the way home I started [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► singing as you sometimes do I started [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► singing in the air tonight Phil [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► Collins's first solo hit its magnum opus [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► in many ways and you know of course I [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► was having the regular thoughts that you [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► have about it what an unusual single [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► what a what an extraordinary choice to [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► have as a first single who would have [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► thought yeah at this weird song and then [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► I did the thing that I very seldom do [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► which as I said you know even though [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► today is not like Phil Collins day I I'm [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► gonna spend just like two minutes while [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► I'm sitting at this traffic light to get [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► a little bit more familiar with in the [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► air tonight a song that I feel like I [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► know like at like as well as my own [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► shirt mmm-hmm yeah when I did we've [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► lived in that song for a long time oh [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► four years right yeah [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► up and down with in the air tonight and [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► I went and I looked at the lyrics [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► because I was assuming because in all [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► the years that we've been listening to [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► the song you there's so much story in it [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► and I was assuming that there were some [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► lyrics that I that I didn't know there [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► was some third verse that I'd never [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► really looked at that was gonna that [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► when I read those lyrics I was just [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► gonna be like wow gobsmacked or I was [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► going to be disappointed [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► so I'm sitting at the stoplight I look [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► up in the air tonight lyrics and I read [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► them and I realize oh I know them all [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► yeah there may be less than you even [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► thought yeah I know the lyrics there's [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► only two verses and we could all sing it [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► all the way through right now yeah and [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► and even more of an accomplishment that [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► there's there's nothing in the lyrics [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► you know we all think like oh there he [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► must have witnessed a murder [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► oh yeah around four years that I think [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► has since been don't email me I this [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► three went around for a long time that [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► it was about actually literally watching [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► somebody drown yeah right like watching [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► watching sting killed his first wife or [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► saw Mike ID in 3/4 time yeah please do [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► not write me like that no but it turns [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► out it couldn't you know the language is [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► broad enough he could just be mad at his [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► next-door neighbor this could just be an [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► argument he's having with his sister [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► like if I saw you drowning I wouldn't [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► even lend a hand [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► that's that's the meanest thing in it [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► the rest of it is just like you know [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► what you did you know you know what grin [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► the only the only reason that it is this [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► I mean we just we add all that Menace to [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► it and I think it's in his voice I think [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► here the characteristics of the [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► production don't you think yeah that [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► miss appearance right it's the sound of [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► a foreboding [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► but but anyway so I just came away from [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► that experience I it's not like I've [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► heard the song I it's not like it was on [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► the radio nothing inspired me to do this [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► nowhere [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► yeah I just had some chicken-fried steak [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► and I was like whatever do you cover [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► that that'd be all right it's in line [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► with a lot of songs that are hard to do [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► at karaoke and I think we've talked [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► about this before but there's there's a [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► famous karaoke songs where you think you [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► really think you know the song [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► probably shouldn't do that song because [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► you don't actually you you remember the [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► feel of it but you don't really remember [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► where the stops and starts are and this [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► one you know I'm saying it with this one [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► there's a lot of air and in this tonight [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► you know what I'm saying [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► so this song has a lot of space to it [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► and Atmospheric sitting you know and [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► it's from the time around the time that [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► Peter Gabriel was doing similar [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► production to great success we think [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► about the first three Peter Gabriel [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► albums like they had a real feel to them [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► there were very simples no symbols is [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► that true you know that story you took [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► the symbols away took the symbols away [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► he said gotta play the drums [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► hate that drummers love their cymbals [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► well and I think he was the first one to [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► ever do it yeah I think drummers hate it [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► I think what drummers hate is Peter [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► Gabriel well they're a lot like dogs you [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► know ninety minutes don't forget [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► everything anyway the guy who did who [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► did in the air tonight who did was that [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► face value face value these dances [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► tonight face dances who produced this [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► you padam padam he also the guy was he [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► also Peter Gabriel man I think he was [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► this is this is stuff that if I were [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► reading a copy of tape up magazine [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► mm-hmm [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► I would be like right in there right in [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► the thick of it throwing elbows but [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► sitting here you know sitting here just [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► on my hard stool little toadstool I'm [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► just like doo doo doo da people's first [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► album was produced by Bob Ezrin [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► bob is get over that shit right now come [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► on get out of Dodge so I kind of won I'm [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► pretty happy with that Solsbury Hill [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► business let's let's let's get the guy [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► from kiss see again like you can read [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► and tape up you'd be throwing elbows [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► right now [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► this feels like a tape up article that [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► we should write sorry it's all I took [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► you way out took you out of your [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► experience you've had an amazing morning [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► capping off a really turbulent week I'm [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► sitting here talking to you about [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► English producers shame on me [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► well it's not shame on it's not a [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► situation like that if we if you had [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► given it to the fix if you wanted to [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► talk about the fix yeah that's too hard [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► of a turn you feel no no I feel like I [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► would have made the turn to the fix I [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► couldn't make the turn to kiss no no I [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► met the bob ezrin part is all is all and [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► now we got Steve Lillywhite he says he [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► wouldn't work with the band more than [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► twice but in the case of you two he made [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► an exception for war I feel like I want [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► to and want to be a record producer oh [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► I really do and I don't and when I [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► listen to other people's production on [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► albums even ones that I love even where [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► I love the production as as in my [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► evolution as a musician right when [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► you're young and you're just listening [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► to music as a listener you don't really [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► hear production it's not a thing you're [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► conscious of yeah it's the stuff you're [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► not supposed to notice yeah there's a [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► lot of reverb on there but you don't [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► notice the subtleties of what's covering [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► the musical spectrum yeah you can't hear [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► you can't hear the work of a producer [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► and then we all have I think the same [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► experience which is most of us that are [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► that didn't come up during a hip-hop era [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► who came up during a guitar pop era our [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► first awareness of production comes when [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► we learn about George Martin and you go [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► why the hell are the Beatles so good and [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► it's like oh well the production and [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► then you get schooled on it and then you [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► start hearing the production on a lot of [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► things like on Bohemian Rhapsody and you [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► start hearing the production on then [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► then as you if you're a rock person you [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► start hearing these stories Oh John [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► Bonham wouldn't let him put the [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► microphones close to the drum son oh you [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► during the making of of those Pink Floyd [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► albums you know they they Roger was an [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► asshole [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► well and it's all like tape loops that [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► Alan Parsons came up with it oh look at [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► the camera he had the pan slowly and [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► gorgeous Dave Gilmour God that guy was [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► handsome he's so wonderful I I did a [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► deep dive on Gilmour the other day but I [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► don't too hard [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► sorry and then then you hear the story [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► about when they were making rumors and [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► they lifted up the tape and they could [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► see through it because they had done [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► something cocaine off of it but then you [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► get into making records like I did and [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► now you're confronted with production as [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► a very real thing that you're like [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► you're learning and deeply engaged in [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► where you're like well wait a minute do [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► we like I had some profound production [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► moments in the early long winters [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► records because I was collaborating with [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► Chris Walla and Chris had a very strong [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► eye hand and come on and Ken [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► Stringfellow no no he's not listen to [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► the podcast well but but I can think [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► back to a couple of key moments in the [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► in the production of that first record [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► where a production choice determined not [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► only the sound of the album but the [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► sound of the band thence forth Wow when [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► I think back on those moments I think [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► back on them as turning points and in at [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► least one case I wish I'd gone the other [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► direction I'm so I'm so curious okay so [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► it's a song is it is it a particular [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► song for the first album [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► it was a sound okay it was a sound that [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► we got and it was in getting this sound [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► and I'll tell you what the sound was [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► mm-hmm the sound was the sound of my [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► Juno 106 roland synthesizer which is a [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► synthesizer that has a lot of you can [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► manipulate a lot of parameters you can [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► make it sound like a lot of things but [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► primarily you make it sound like a like [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► variations on a synthesizer they're good [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► at that they're really good it sounds [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► very like a synthesizer no matter to it [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► and then we ran the synthesizer into a [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► big muff Distortion a big muff fuzz [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► pedal and it created this this wall is [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► extremely pleasing the fat of stick [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► fuzziness like a giant like a giant love [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► Caterpillar came in to the room and [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► wrapped me in its five thousand little [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► stubby green arms and it was like it was [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► a turning point an in-studio turning [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► point where here was this sound which [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► was this like maybe like a Copernicus it [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► was happening in the process of that [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► exactly that that the we were [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► experimenting with a song that did not [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► have a band arrangement Copernicus was [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► this tune then because some of this [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► stuff just for a background it's worth I [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► think it's worth mentioning that some of [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► these have been western states a [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► hurricane songs that you had really if [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► you changed it up quite a lot I mean [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► it's really amazing to think about how [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► many times you play car parts that one [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► way and then made it into this pop song [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► you had reinvented some hurricane songs [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► and then there was new stuff starting [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► from scratch yeah trying to reinvent [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► stuff [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► and and going from a band that was that [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► was like pretty post-grunge hard rock [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► you know the western state hurricanes [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► had big amplifiers and we were allowed [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► band and we were in the studio and we [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► are making this music that was indeed [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► proto proto [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► indie rock maybe not proto but we were [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► certainly in this in the new quiet as [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► the new loud school and i failed to be [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► quiet in new laughs but that was [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► certainly that was the that was the new [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► aesthetic and i hit and so Copernicus [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► used to be a big rock song and we and it [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► wasn't we the only reason we were even [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► doing it is that we didn't have enough [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► songs to make a whole album and I was [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► like well what about Copernicus and I [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► sat down at the piano and I had never [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► played it on the piano before and just [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► sort of tinkering right and in the [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► process of trying stuff out hit upon [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► this sound and it's not it's not like a [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► it's not like we were the first person [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► people never run a synthesizer into a [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► big buff right it's a it's a fairly [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► common thing to try but it it was a [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► sound that I heard in my in my soul [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► because what it sounded like was a [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► really big fat guitar but that had no [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► strumming it was just you could play [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► chords you could make all the [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► transitions but there wasn't any [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► rhythmic aspect to the quartz it's not [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► like Dow now now now now now now now it [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► was just and you could put that in and [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► have guitars on it and base on it and [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► have rhythmic things and underneath it [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► there would be this like not just a low [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► tone but this like kind of just wall [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► this wall of what communicated to me [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► like [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► the biggest raucous sound and I'm [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► sitting in the studio and we're putting [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► this down and my eyes are just as wide [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► as saucers and I'm like reinventing [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► everything in my mind and we you know [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► we're not this isn't like during mixing [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► but but we're kind of far along in the [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► recording and and I'm basically saying I [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► want this on everything okay like you [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► made like pesto for the first time you [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► know everything gets pesto yeah but but [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► it is it is the sound right I mean if [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► you when they were making my bloody [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► Valentines Lovelace he took his jazz [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► master and he ran it in probably two a [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► big muff anyway he was like that's the [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► sound and he put everything that that [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► whammy bar thing kind of helps to find [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► that sound I think of it that way for [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► sure yeah for sure I mean if you if you [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► read the interviews with him at the time [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► he's like we didn't use any synthesizers [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► on this it's very simple actually it [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► sounds amazing to you but you're not [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► thinking straight because it's just like [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► basically two or three tracks of guitar [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► in it it's not this crazy thing the more [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► you listen to it the less you feel like [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► you understand what's going on it's so [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► good but it but but it's it's an example [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► and there are there are hundreds of [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► examples of bands who just like The [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► Strokes hit upon that vocal sound [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► mm-hm and I made that record and so [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► anyway I came into the studio the next [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► day and the the the track that we were [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► the track that this went down on was not [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► Copernicus although Copernicus was where [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► it blow boom [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► what's the one of the dr.dre on it the [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► bone [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► well what song am I thinking of that [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► some unsalted butter right right uh no [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► it was Meany really that this happened [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► on the first time and you know Mimi is a [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► very thick production there's a lot [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► going on in that production but and the [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► thing is I'm I didn't hear this keyboard [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► part being the loudest thing in the mix [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► just that he existed that it was this [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► like that the chords had this additional [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► fatness that would have been a sound [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► like a unifying sound on an album and it [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► would have been a unifying sound of a [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► band whether or not you know like [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► whether or not that sound would have [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► appealed to people more than the sound [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► that we went with I have no idea and I [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► don't it's not a thing that that it's [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► we're speculating about but at the time [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► I was like production because there [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► wasn't a band the long winters weren't a [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► band it wasn't like we were coming in [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► and trying to capture our sound it was [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► like I was in them the rare position of [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► being able to say this is the sound of a [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► new band and I came in the next day and [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► was like let's you know let's call that [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► up and Kris said yeah I what I tried to [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► like make that work and I couldn't [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► really make it work [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► so I recorded over it oh oh that's [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► aggressive for a billing hammer well I [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► mean that was his and and that was you [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► know it it was within the 10-minute [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► period that I had this like production [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► and then on the flip side of it like [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► production [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► because he perceived himself to be the [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► producer and that wasn't where that [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► wasn't the direction he heard it going [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► and we had an argument about it but it [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► was but he had erased it it wasn't like [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► the tracks down at this point no [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► everything was I mean we were we were [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► far enough along in the making of the [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► record that this would have been a this [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► would have been a change of direction [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► and and when you are in a situation like [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► that where you feel like oh well you [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► know we've got to get this done we don't [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► have the time to do this now and you [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► look at it from my perspective 15 years [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► later and you go you know you had all [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► the time in the world to make those [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► decisions like yeah the famous adage [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► right you know about your whole life to [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► make your first record right you only [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► have a year to make your second record [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► right and he didn't you know that wasn't [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► the sound of production that he had in [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► mind and and at that point in his career [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► he didn't see his job as being [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► facilitate the artist as much as his job [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► was be pay a guide to the artist or be a [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► collaborator a co-author [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► so everything that followed from there [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► like the second record I took a much [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► greater hand in in making production [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► decisions for better and for worse [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► because I was learning production and [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► not always you know I at that point kind [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► of needed a mentor anyway like like a [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► lot of things in music as I learned more [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► and more about production and as I heard [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► it more and more then I couldn't listen [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► to a record without hearing the [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► production hearing it in some cases a [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► long time before I was listening to the [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► song [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► until production was my primary path [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► into music and I think I arrived at a [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► place where if the production is if the [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► production doesn't grab me right away I [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► don't want to hear the production now [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► you know like if if like I keep going [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► back to this band always from Canada who [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► I think have great production and the [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► new Portugal demand song I think has [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► great production and I want to listen [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► and you know Beck records have great [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► production I want to listen to the [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► production on those things but like like [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► bad production I it's like listening to [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► a bad podcast I just get a you know my [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► shoulders hunched up I get that like [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► lemon just sucked on a lemon face and I [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► just have to I just have to get out of [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► it I don't want to I don't want to hear [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► it we thought without naming names what [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► do you think of we need to go what [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► you're calling bad production what what [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► is the hallmark of what you consider bad [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► production well how it makes you feel [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► anything with vocoder honor Oh or like [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► auto-tune anything with anything with [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► what I mean vocoder in particular even [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► more than auto-tune is an effect that is [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► now I mean it's considered almost like [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► de rigueur still if you're making a kind [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► of record absolutely I mean that Kanye [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► record that came out I think he works it [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► sometimes well yeah but it was it was [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► superfluous to need uh as he used it on [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► this most recent record and the thing is [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► it's know it no longer I understand that [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► to us to listeners within the auto-tune [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► slash vocoder genre it is as necessary [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► to the sound of the music as distorted [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► guitars are to metal it's just the sound [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► it is the sound of it [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► but I just find it like so dull with it [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► just don't win it as a sound and when I [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► hear it I just go just I'm just I'm out [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► and you know the same is true of like [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► super super gloss on stuff that I mean [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► and this isn't just coming from a [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► low-fiber spective but what are the [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► where everything has been glossed to the [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► point where there's no it's not even [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► conceivable that there would be [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► imperfection in it and I think you [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► probably have that same feeling like [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► super gloss just puts me out on the [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► sidewalks it's it's it's weird cuz I'm [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► I'm somewhat out of the vernacular on a [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► lot of stuff I mean I'll know like I'll [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► recognize something as part of this like [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► two to three year long trend you know [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► but it's sometimes something comes along [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► that is is very new and you really [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► notice it I mean for vocoder you go back [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► to let's say you know zap and Roger or [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► something where like they or I guess [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► Peter Frampton before that but but zap [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► and Roger turning into a little bit of [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► an art form maybe beat it to death but [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► like they did they did something you [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► know more bounce to the ounce like [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► that's that that is the sound of a [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► vocoder to me it's something like that [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► um and then eventually there will be [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► people who reintroduce it like Cher yeah [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► supposedly started as an accident I [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► think it did and it's it sounds like an [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► accident but I think do you believe in [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► life after love was the thing that [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► turned vocoder from a thing in a memory [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► of the distant past to a thing now that [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► you can't you know you can't turn on the [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► radio without hearing right it felt it [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► felt very modern but I'm thinking about [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► I don't go to deep down a rabbit hole [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► but there's lots of stuff like that [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► where like you just but sometimes [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► somebody is able to take something that [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► seems like it's been pretty tired and [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► mix it up but but it's it is that there [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► is this sense to me of like even in a [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► genre that I'm not super familiar with [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► and this is probably cuz I'm an old man [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► I will tend to tune out rather quickly [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► if it sounds like pretty much all the [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► other stuff I've her [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► mmm-hmm but like for example like I'm [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► not the biggest Bon Iver fan in the [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► world like I'd like his stuff okay but [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► he was on the recently renamed [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► christieelee show last night boy the [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► thing he did was weird [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► I I don't know what he was doing he did [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► the song I don't know he's doing this [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► leet speak for all the titles of his [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► songs but it's something something 45 is [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► the name of this song I don't know what [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► in the hell instrument or instruments [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► he's playing but unless he had brought [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► with them like some exquisitely talented [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► string and winds group I think it must [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► have been I need to find out what [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► instrument he's playing on this because [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► I don't think it's live instruments it [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► could have been it was so tight it was [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► unbelievable but it was weird it was [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► ghostly and it made me really perk up [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► and III sat and I put down what I was [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► doing and I listened to the song like a [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► gentleman and it's something like that [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► you realize that that however he [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► accomplished that it worked like this so [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► he did something really differently and [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► it really caught me and it didn't hurt [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► that the song was also you know it had a [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► really great feel to it so I I don't [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► know I mean I still think there's so [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► much room for something to really catch [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► your ear and spark your feeling that [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► that googly feeling in your gut of like [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► oh this is exciting and new and I'm [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► really glad that somebody went there [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► with this you know that that most recent [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► boniva record which is called 22 comma a [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► million kind of like Portugal is now the [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► man I have and it's an example of a [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► record that i sat with utterly [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► fascinated by the production and to the [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► point that i was yelling at the speakers [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► about it because because listening to it [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► there are astonishing choices being made [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► and you could feel the choices are at [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► least I could feel the choices being [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► made as they went down and and I had [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► that experience of being like yes [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► yes and then you know just like doing [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► that that incredible thing that you want [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► from an artist which is making a choice [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► that both is incredibly gratifying in a [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► way where it feels like obvious slash [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► almost pandering to my basest needs [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► mm-hmm but also completely surprising [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► and not at all what I and it doesn't [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► feel right you know just like Wow [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► awesome like that was it you yes and [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► that's one thing in in this age we're [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► all so much for media especially movies [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► but in many cases music is so if you [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► really I hate to be a karma suck but if [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► you really really keep scratching at the [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► surface you realize how much stuff is [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► based on nostalgia or how much stuff is [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► based on not just a reboot but on like [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► repackaging something really familiar [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► and I felt kind of kind of unmoored [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► listening to that song like I'm not sure [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► what this thing is but it's like [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► listening to Eno back in the day or [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► something we were like what what planet [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► is this from well and and so there's a [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► there's a keyboard the first time I saw [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► Jonathan Coulton had it and then I [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► started to see it in the hands of a lot [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► of musicians that I respected and it was [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► a it was a thing that people were just [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► pulling out of their bag right we'd be [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► sitting around and I would come this [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► little keyboard and it's smaller then [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► then an sk7 it's this tiny little thing [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► it's like it's longer than a paperback [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► book but thinner than a paperback book [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► and it's and it's and it's beautiful [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► it's made out of like brushed aluminum [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► and it's it's uh it's like a it's just [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► machined so beautifully and it's called [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► a it's called the op1 okay Wow and it's [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► a it's a little just a little synth [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► that's made in Stockholm cause this [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► thing is gorgeous it's gorgeous and it [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► is a synth [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► and it's a sequencer and it like [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► it does all these fun things that are [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► hang on I'm I'm looking up I said I said [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► sk7 but what I meant was sk-1 like a [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► Casio the little caffeine yeah I know [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► but this is teenaged if you wanna Google [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► this is teenage engineering Opie - one [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► and so this is a thing as it looks it [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► looks like it would be difficult to tell [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► if this were a prop in a movie it would [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► be hard to know what decade it's from [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► apart you know what I mean it's it's got [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► a timeless kind of wackadoo digital [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► quality to it it does and it's you know [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► it's very gratifying to have in your [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► hands like when you press down the keys [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► they feel really satisfyingly kind of [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► solid it's it's a small enough to guess [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► that from looking at this it looks like [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► it's just little like like little like [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► the pads on like a cheap laptop no it's [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► not cheap at all it's just it's clicky [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► and it's chunky and it just fit and [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► considering how small it is at that if [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► it fits in a it fits in your like your [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► messenger bag it is surprisingly heavy [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► like it's milled there's no plastic on [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► it like dance it's dense and it's not [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► big so you could it's not like you could [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► sit and like play the grand piano on it [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► but within it it has its own it has all [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► this processing power I can you can loop [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► you there's drums in it you can you can [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► kind of make all kinds of music out of [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► it and Colton pulled it out of his bag [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► and I was like whoa what's that and he [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► was like check it out and he's you know [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► mr. gizmo and so he has pants he'll get [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► these things and he'll play him for a [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► while and then they'll kind of you know [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► they end up on his on his gizmo wall and [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► he uses them for sure but like you know [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► if you've ever seen him on tour right he [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► pulls out something that whatever that [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► crazy is he plays that thing that thing [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► was that thing was a piece of joke [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► comedy equipment that he turned into [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► well like ultimate ultra ultra joke [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► comedy thing [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► anyway so he really knows what he's [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► doing with he does good I'm gonna have [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► to say like I am not much of a musician [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► but watching him play that it looks like [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► there's a million ways that thing could [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► go horribly wrong yeah I mean he's a [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► genius there's no argument stream anyway [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► so I started seeing this op1 get pulled [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► out of bags backstage all the time you [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► know it's the type of thing that Matthew [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► cause suddenly had won and and and the [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► the the problem is it's a thousand bucks [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► and so it was the type of thing that [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► when I first saw it I felt like I gotta [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► get one of those but then it was a [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► thousand bucks which is not cheap and [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► the thing about an sk1 was that it was [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► it was cheap it was cheap when it was [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► new and I mean I used to find them at [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► thrift stores for for five to ten [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► dollars this is a thousand bucks and [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► it's absolutely worth it feels worth it [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► but it turned out that almost everything [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► on that record 22 comma a million were [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► either made with or run through an Opie [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► one wow that is super interesting that [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► little fucking gizmo he and this is you [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► know boney bears whole trip right he [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► made that first record out in his dad's [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► cabin on a on a tape machine made out of [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► a beer bottle and a raccoon tail and and [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► you go like well done like dude well [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► done like creative guy and when this [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► record came out part of the part of my [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► experience of listening to it the first [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► couple times was like oh ho well now [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► you're now you're mister got all the [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► money in the world and so you're just [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► like you got a fare like yeah right [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► you're making you're making like a [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► billion dollar record in a studio you're [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► probably like every day somebody brings [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► in a giant tray of chopped crap all that [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► nobody needs and then the Dark Twisted [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► Fantasy Island he's out there and people [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► just hanging out on the couch for like [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► just months making the album right [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► but in fact it's him with this fucking [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► little thing and and what I was yelling [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► at about the production is that that it [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► was the best kind of yelling at the [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► radio for me now which is that I could [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► feel myself in that chair I could feel [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► myself as the producer of that record [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► and I heard choices that I disagreed [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► with and you know and the thing is [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► they're tiny it's just like no no no no [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► no no don't you put the effect on it the [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► first time then leave it off the second [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► time and when it came back or you could [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► feel it coming back around and I was [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► like you're gonna have that effect on it [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► and that's the wrong choice and it came [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► back around and it didn't have the [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► effect on and I was like no and and I [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► felt it every time it went by and I mean [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► this is like interacting with a widow [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► with a brilliantly produced thing and [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► interacting with it not as a like a [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► passive listener not as somebody that's [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► like how is this Wow what's going but [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► somebody that where I was sitting there [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► like I know I know you agonized over [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► whether or not to do that and in the end [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► you chose to do it and if I were there I [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► would have argued against it and that [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► kind of like that kind of relationship [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► to production is like it is like when [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► you become a musician and you first hear [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► the bass line in god only knows and [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► you're like well now I can't ever hear [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► it without hearing the I can never hear [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► it without hearing that whatever that [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► triangle because I'm because having [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► become conscious of it you can't ever [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► put it back in the box I want to be a [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► producer because I because it's an art [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► that I really identify with like I [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► really I want I don't want to be a [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► producer that is like no I don't I [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► didn't hear that sound so I just erased [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► it I want to be a producer that's like [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► what [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► you know like what do you want and let's [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► find it but then but then advocating for [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► that kind of thing like what if on the [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► second one we didn't do it [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► what if we didn't go back right but so [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► way beyond an engineer but not at the [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► point where you're just like a name that [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► gets slapped on it but you're somebody [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► who could say like here's here's a [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► palette of things that might complement [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► what you've told me you're trying to do [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► like I don't want to be an engineer at [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► all that that aspect of it I know enough [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► about to to say like here's what I'm [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► hearing [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► I want a side chain this so that it only [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► triggers the reverb when it goes above [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► this and the engineer knows what I'm [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► talking about or I mean you know I I [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► want to be able to know the technology [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► enough to be able to say here's what I [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► wanted here's what I mean well almost as [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► a director is - a DP or cinematographer [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► like you say like you go do your thing [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► to go make it make look like this it's [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► the same you know how to do it then you [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► can describe it in the terms that right [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► I mean that's yeah but yeah you get [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► people for that right and but not at all [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► like the slap your name on a thing like [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► I want to be in the trenches with with [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► artists making music because the because [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► it's really hard to do for yourself it's [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► really hard to be the writer/director [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► star and you know and like producer of [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► your own film even if you're the writer [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► director star there's a producer [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► generally and and but breaking into that [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► because there have been quite a few [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► artists who have considered me as the [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► producer I don't mean that they that [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► they call me their producer well but [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► like yeah hey we're in the running for [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► the role right I was in the running to [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► make the record and in and I've only [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► ever recorded I've only ever produced [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► three albums that weren't connected to [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► me one of them was the most popular one [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► was Shelby Earls debut record and I'm [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► super proud of Shelby Earl's debut [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► record burn the boats [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► and I produced a record for a guy named [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► Eric Hauck who is currently the guitar [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► player in Portugal the man and he's a [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► very mercurial guy and he never released [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► it oh man it's a brilliant record and [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► but by which I mean he is a great player [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► and his songs are great but he had he [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► had some he had whatever insecurities [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► about it and then he kind of feels like [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► oh well we made that 10 years ago and [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► it's not really relevant anymore it's [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► like it's a great record it's always [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► relevant and then I produced a record [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► for my niece Elizabeth Roderick that [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► also super proud of I think it's clay [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► imagine it's probably hard to find but [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► you know I was in the running to produce [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► Kathleen Edwards's record and then [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► Kathleen Edwards started dating boney [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► their son and the record label was like [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► well we could pay to have this record [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► made by John Roderick or we could have [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► it made by boney there who is at the at [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► who was at that moment like number one [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► on the charts with a bullet and so I [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► missed out on on producing that crack [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► record and I had a lot of angry things [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► to yell at the speaker's listening to it [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► because he made a lot of choices for her [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► music that I wouldn't have I mean that [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► felt to me like obvious at the time like [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► yeah she's a female singer songwriter [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► with an acoustic guitar sure so you made [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► Yankee Hotel Foxtrot but that's not what [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► I guess what the album wanted no I don't [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► think that's what the songs wanted I [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► don't think that's what she wanted in [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► her life at the time and but you know [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► that was very hard for her to say not [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► sure because shit boney bears producing [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► your record and oh also you know like [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► you're in a relationship with them it's [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► very hard to be like you know I kind of [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► we were half because you know she and I [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► had been talking production we were not [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► halfway along [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► it was like I wanted to make I wanted to [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► make that record sound like the first [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► Pretenders record I've only just hang [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► out with her she's amazing I like her I [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► spent that little bit of time of your [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► house with her boy I like that person [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► she has a lot of deep calm [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► yeah but she's she's fast and funny my [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► god she's fast and funny she is [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► oh she she's she's dynamite and she [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► posted a thing on Instagram yesterday [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► which was she was out walking in the [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► forest behind her house in Ontario and [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► she found like a giant Jackrabbit dead [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► Jackrabbit hanging from a tree not [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► hanging like by its neck but just like [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► draped over a branch here that's not [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► good for property values and she and [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► then she found like a dismembered coyote [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► oh come on she was like so her her life [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► continues to be very interesting you've [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► been thinking about this this has been [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► on your mind you're thinking is this [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► something you think you'd like to do [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► well the problem is the life of a [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► producer is not the life that I want I [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► have a lot of friends that are that are [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► producers that's the career they chose [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► for themselves [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► and I think it's very gratifying work [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► for them but they never see the Sun and [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► they go from one completely encompassing [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► project to the next so they work on [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► something for three weeks where they're [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► just in the studio with these musicians [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► who are like frantically scrambling to [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► try and get their vision down and they [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► stay Shepherd this thing all the way [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► from zero to a fully fledged thing you [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► have to be comfortable with with the [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► idea that like we don't have all the [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► time in the world that that's the take [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► moving on you know all this stuff that's [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► in some ways like anti perfectionism [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► mm-hmm you make choices and you go [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► and you come to the end and you have a [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► finished product and it you know at the [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► beginning of a record it could be any [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► one of a thousand things but at the end [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► of a record it is what it is and you can [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► scrap it and go back and make that [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► record again differently but you [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► probably aren't going to you made it [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► right that's the thing about the first [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► long winter's record at the end it was [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► what it was and because it was a first [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► record it established the tone of the [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► band going forward and I wouldn't want [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► to do that [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► all year long I wouldn't want to make 12 [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► records in a year it would just be it's [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► just - it would be overwhelming but I [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► would love to make a record every year [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► but with somebody with somebody or two [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► to records a year where it was like yeah [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► I'm gonna go I mean every time Death Cab [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► goes in to make a new record I'm always [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► like you should have me produce this one [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► and they are records oh yeah they're [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► making one right now no kidding [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► they are always making records and you [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► know their records continually evolve I [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► don't think they understand how [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► fantastic a job I would do as the [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► producer of their album more than pity [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► on that my goodness they should at least [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► least have you in I mean just [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► that's ridiculous well it's not it's not [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► a thing that could ever happen and when [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► I say it they there's like that there's [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► that laugh of like ha ha ha and then a [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► little bit of fear in the eyes that I'm [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► serious yeah like me asking if I can [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► drive right this episode of Roderick on [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► the line is brought to you by [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► Squarespace you learn more about [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► Squarespace right now by visiting [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► squarespace.com Oh friends the many many [TS]

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00:49:55 ◼   ► you can do what I'm doing right now you [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► could host a podcast on there isn't that [TS]

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00:50:00 ◼   ► Squarespace you can create a beautiful [TS]

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00:50:14 ◼   ► and put up photos you can make a gallery [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► you can announce an upcoming event I do [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► that with my ungainly x-men meet up [TS]

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00:51:19 ◼   ► you gotta get on this Squarespace it's [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► just the it's a great place to go so [TS]

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00:51:34 ◼   ► first purchase of a website or a domain [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► and as always our thanks to Squarespace [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► for supporting Roderick on the line and [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► all the great shows you're there like no [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► seriously yeah I mean did I mean you [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► have obviously strong feelings about it [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► is that ever a thing that if somebody [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► came to you and said like hey we want [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► Maryland man to produce our album well [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► no but I'm thinking a lot about what [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► you're saying and it's I mean I guess to [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► me it's difficult not to separate it [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► from what I think of as being a film [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► director and both both of those jobs so [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► I mean we could stick to just music but [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► in either case like it really is an [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► impossible task you go into making an [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► album or making a movie I mean [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► you've got to be so crazy to go into [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► that because it is it's it's impossible [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► there's no way to get everything the way [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► everybody wants [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► there's always time limits there's [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► always money limits and if there aren't [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► time in money limits you still might [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► make total shit it's like you but also [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► the personality traits required to be a [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► a good and talented producer are I don't [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► know I marvel at people who can hit all [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► tick all the boxes so you think of [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► somebody who on the one hand really [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► knows who they are I know that sounds [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► silly but somebody who knows who they [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► are they know the edges of their [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► humanity and like okay here's where I [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► stop and the other people begin like [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► really understand like so I mean like [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► honestly to be a truly mature shading [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► into parental character like us like a [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► super dad or a super mom somebody who's [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► really really able to separate [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► themselves from from the process from [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► the people from the product from you [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► know and and and then just the million [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► skills you need inside of that or would [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► benefit from inside of that hobbies' lee [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► having a great year knowing what [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► something wants to be rather than what [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► it is right now being able to help [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► people articulate something they don't [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► know they're even thinking right now [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► being able to as I say bring in a [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► palette that isn't just a bunch of [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► gimmicks and gizmos but to be able to [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► say like well you know this is one thing [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► we could try to do this the ability to [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► as you say keep things moving right like [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► look you like you like you would say [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► with guitar solos' back in the day like [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► we're not gonna do this for TTS this is [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► not hound-dog we're not gonna do this 42 [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► times so what's the right amount of time [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► how do you know when you're pushing it [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► too far do you want to do like a [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► finisher in a Kubrick where you just [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► keep doing this until the person wants [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► to kill you or do you say you got three [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► shots give me your best or something [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► else because that's you know how that [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► works I just feel like it's so difficult [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► for me to even concentrate on one and a [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► half things at a time it's amazing to me [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► that that person could be somebody who [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► could for example feel comfortable [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► talking to whoever owns Warner Brothers [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► this week like to be able to talk to the [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► people above you and sort of below you [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► and beside you keep everybody confident [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► that this is on track it's a cask ill [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► set that makes my mind swim and I know [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► you don't have to have all those things [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► you could just be affordable and patient [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► but like to be really good at that [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► requires a set of skills that represents [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► almost everything I'm more of a lot in a [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► person [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► yeah it's a it is a set of skills that [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► is that is I think a lot of people in [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► the music world think it's a set of [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► skills that can be learned because [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► there's so much effort put into software [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► recording software and recording gear of [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► all kinds there are so many boxes there [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► are so many instruction manuals and the [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► era of the home recordists produced [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► thousands and thousands of people who [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► could legitimately describe themselves [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► as producers because they have produced [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► albums on their Mac and as they got you [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► know they read the the data they they [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► tested things out they tried they [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► listened to other records they got [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► really good drum sounds they got really [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► good sounds ultimately they were making [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► they were engineering great records or [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► at least not maybe great records but [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► they were they were able to engineer [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► competently confident yeah even records [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► yeah but the there is like all art a [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► thing that cannot be learned that is [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► feel and is emotion and when you're [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► talking to musicians about making a [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► record or when you're shepherding that [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► process you're dealing with this [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► incredible world of like these are this [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► is in some ways like peak ego moments [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► for people but also the place where they [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► are most vulnerable the music is [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► generally like coming from somewhere [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► inside them that they are maybe not in [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► contact with directly that's why it's [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► coming out as music they're using [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► they're they're using their voices [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► they're using their bodies you're [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► dealing with multiple people multiple [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► and everybody's whether they know it or [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► not maybe doesn't know I was gonna say [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► agenda that's not the right way to put [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► it but you know you're expected to rise [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► above you're paid you're compensated to [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► rise above all of that on some [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► you're empowered by somebody to be the [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► project manager for this piece of art [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► which is a lot of responsibility at a [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► crucial level yes and at a crucial level [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► you need to be right down in the blood [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► and guts of it with people because you [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► know there there are million producers [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► out there who have learned to do it on [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► their Mac and they're sitting in the [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► room and they're recording you and the [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► singer go does it take and goes how was [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► that and the person on the other side [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► goes it was good how did it sound to you [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► mm-hmm [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► and that is not that's about as useful [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► as when I say what do you want for [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► dinner and they say whatever you want [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► that's like well you know I'm asking you [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► because I don't want to have to decide [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► this on my own but you ought to be a [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► great editor right you also so it's one [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► thing and I'm not in any way trying to [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► diminish what I'm calling engineering [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► the the the skills and the mechanics of [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► spending years learning how to make [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► sounds in a studio is amazing and [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► certainly you know that through the [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► compressors through the board all [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► through the entire stack that is an [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► entire skill set but then to have mostly [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► mastered that plus be able to say let's [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► leave out that second chorus or let's [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► have the bass do this here or could we [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► try it this way or why don't you go [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► record this in the bathroom or like [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► we're really just being able to say that [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► song is not up to snuff or let's try [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► that vocal one more time that's a very [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► different skill from being able to make [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► something that that doesn't overdrive [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► the speakers what I mean to be able to [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► go from competent to like you're getting [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► into this very hazy cloudy world of like [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► it's very much value judgments well let [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► alone let alone being able to go into [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► the room sit down with a singer and go [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► you know you're singing this from from a [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► place that isn't like reading as [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► completely believable because it feels [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► like you're singing it from from a space [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► where you're examining the you're [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► examining the protagonist [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► and what the song and the song is [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► written in the language as though the [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► protagonist truly believed his situation [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► and not that he was being examined by [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► someone smarter than him so huh you're [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► the singer you've written this song it [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► is in this person's voice and now you're [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► afraid to be that person in the studio [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► and you're thinking you're smarter than [TS]

00:59:17 ◼   ► that person and now you're here singing [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► it with your tongue in your cheek and [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► it's not reading and to be able to save [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► that kind of thing to a singer in a [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► language because different singers will [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► be able to hear that differently and you [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► need to know the language of the person [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► you're talking to to be able to say [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► something like that to them where they [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► go right and then to be able to say one [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► way that you can accomplish that is to [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► stop having your voice coming from [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► behind your eyeballs and start trying to [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► make your voice come from between your [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► nipples mm-hmm and then walk away you [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► know and and be able to connect the [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► intellectual [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► intellectual [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► perience of like you're not singing this [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► truthfully and then be able to give them [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► a physiological cue that sounds crazy to [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► someone that isn't a singer be like [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► you're putting the music behind your [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► eyes and you need to put it from behind [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► your ears and you say that to a singer [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► you say that to a group of people and [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► they're like what I mean that's like [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► sounds woowoo or it just sounds idiotic [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► but if you say it to a singer and [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► they're in there [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► in front of the microphone and they are [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► like oh shit I was putting it behind my [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► eyes and then they put it behind their [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► ears which wasn't a thing that they'd [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► ever thought of before and it works you [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► know that stuff so it's not like so [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► comparing that job to an engineer is [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► like saying well this guy works on the [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► this guy is like a genius at making this [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► racecar motor run really great so that [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► means that he will probably also be a [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► great team owner who's like and also a [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► great driving instructor and recruiter [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► of drivers who he has to persuade to be [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► on his team yeah they're just it's like [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► it's utterly different but the problem [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► is that that guys who have taught [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► themselves engineering on their max feel [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► insulted by this the suggestion that [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► that what they're doing isn't production [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► because it is and within you know within [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► the hip-hop world if you just make beats [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► you're called a producer like that's [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► actually the name of that job like it's [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► like oh I'm the producer and basically [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► it's because the track is just somebody [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► rhyming over what you built your the 808 [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► estab a you know and you're probably not [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► in that job sitting there working with [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► the vocalist like about whether he's [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► singing it from behind his eyes or not [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► and there are you know like I'm sure [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► that if you're working with Rick Rubin [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► or you're working with dr. Dre they are [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► involved at that level but there's a lot [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► of music that you can just tell it's one [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► of the things when you listen to stuff [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► on the radio as a as a casual listener [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► you're not often conscious of the fact [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► that [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► the problem you're having with a song [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► the reason you don't like it is that the [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► singer isn't isn't believable it within [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► the music that they themselves wrote and [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► it's because they got divorced from they [TS]

01:02:30 ◼   ► got divorced from what they wrote [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► at some point which isn't hard to do [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► it's easy to get divorced it's why I [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► can't listen to modern country because I [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► don't believe it I don't believe any of [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► it because of because the that vocal [TS]

01:02:46 ◼   ► style is so affected I recognize it as [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► country I'm not trying to be one of [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► those like Hank Williams guys but like [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► when I hear things that are called [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► country music I'm like wow this I [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► realize things evolved but this sounds [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► so much more like hip-hop than country [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► to me [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► well just in the sense that it's so it [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► is so affect not affected in the way you [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► would think but it's just every single [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► little edge has been shaved off of it [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► and it's auto-tune and super shiny and [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► it sounds like one of those Swedish [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► producers like made a country album but [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► not really like people kept talking [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► about what this is this is the album [TS]

01:03:21 ◼   ► where Taylor Swift is finally all off of [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► country and and can totally pop and I'm [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► like I don't know man she's been pretty [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► pop for a while yeah right well and I [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► think the difference is that there's not [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► that like that weird drawl a weird draw [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► that's that feels like San Francisco [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► punk bands that sing in English music [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► not just in the affectation of the voice [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► yeah yeah right which is just like oh [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► yeah but Dolph's naked herb lamp lamp [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► lamp and it's like no it's all so corny [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► just adding a pedal steel at the last [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► minute does not make this a country song [TS]

01:03:56 ◼   ► I heard that on the radio the other day [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► or no I guess I was in a store and some [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► song came on and from the way that this [TS]

01:04:03 ◼   ► drum sounded I was like how long till [TS]

01:04:07 ◼   ► the pedal steel I was just counting it [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► down and then there it was like fine and [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► I'm like you know the pedal steel is an [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► incredible instrument I mean it's [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► incredible it's got so much to say and [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► so many different emotions it's awesome [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► if you put if you run it into a [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► distortion box if you run it into a [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► chorus pedal if you run it into [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► delay pedal it can do it's like us it's [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► like a synthesizer I mean it can make so [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► many tones and it's so that it's like [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► it's like the country music saltshaker [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► just it's so criminally underused it's [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► just like wow like oh it's here it is [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► this is a high lonesome song one more [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► high lonesome I mean thinking the [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► highlights [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► think about them the way just a lap [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► steel is used it within Hawaiian music [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► mm-hmm it creates all that spooky whims [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► the sound of Hawaiian music and it's the [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► same it's the same instrument that's [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► being used over here you know wow it's [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► like oh fuck somebody should steal like [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► the great pedal steel player should all [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► march out of Nashville and just go start [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► you know they should just start working [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► with with the t-pain fucking do [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► something else yeah both both sides [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► everybody do something else we're gonna [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► we're gonna flip it here we're gonna [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► flip the switch mix it up a little bit [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► yeah all the all the beat producers go [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► over to Nashville and all the pedal [TS]

01:05:32 ◼   ► steel players head out to LA into [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► downtown Atlanta [TS]

01:05:35 ◼   ► so usually when you mention something on [TS]

01:05:40 ◼   ► the show it's something you've been [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► thinking about for a while I guess [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► sometimes it could be something that's [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► just coming out because you it's [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► occurring to you is there something [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► you've been thinking about for a while [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► did you just recently realize you've [TS]

01:05:51 ◼   ► been thinking about this for a while I [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► don't think that I I mean I've been [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► thinking about this ever since ever [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► since the the the forth long winters [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► record went off that went off the trail [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► because in the making of the fourth long [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► winters record I was I had evolved to [TS]

01:06:15 ◼   ► the point where I I felt like I was [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► doing pretty great production work and [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► that production work was such a separate [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► job from my actual job of being the [TS]

01:06:31 ◼   ► songwriter and the singer and it was in [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► some ways more interesting to me and [TS]

01:06:38 ◼   ► what ended up happening was [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► I I produced well effectively an [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► instrumental record I never went in and [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► did my vocals and partly it was that I [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► had that the the job of the vocals I had [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► fulfilled with melodic instruments but [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► the record sounded great you know and [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► and I couldn't wait to mix it and it was [TS]

01:07:09 ◼   ► just this like this frustrating thing [TS]

01:07:15 ◼   ► that I needed to figure out god I gotta [TS]

01:07:17 ◼   ► put vocals on this thing and in the end [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► I never did I never put vocals on it [TS]

01:07:22 ◼   ► that record just sits there unfinished [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► and the experience of of working on that [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► production every day and and in [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► conjunction with Erik Corson who has [TS]

01:07:38 ◼   ► become now a great producer in his own [TS]

01:07:42 ◼   ► right and was a great engineer even then [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► it felt like oh you know this is [TS]

01:07:52 ◼   ► something I could do this is like a this [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► is another thing I could do now right [TS]

01:07:58 ◼   ► now the idea that in addition to having [TS]

01:08:02 ◼   ► three unfinished records for podcasts a [TS]

01:08:06 ◼   ► book deal that I haven't pursued that [TS]

01:08:11 ◼   ► what I also need to do is throw my hat [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► in the ring as a record producer [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► it's just feels like what I need to do [TS]

01:08:19 ◼   ► is is figure out a method of finishing [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► things rather than chase down an mother [TS]

01:08:27 ◼   ► for you that's that's a that's a hell of [TS]

01:08:30 ◼   ► an insight well I mean it is it's very [TS]

01:08:37 ◼   ► much of an insight I mean that's that's [TS]

01:08:40 ◼   ► very that's very practical you know I [TS]

01:08:44 ◼   ► had this list that's ten years old or 15 [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► years old of all the things that I I [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► mean I've been trying to finish that [TS]

01:08:51 ◼   ► record for ten years I've been trying to [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► finish that book for [TS]

01:08:53 ◼   ► 20 years mmm and there was graduate from [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► college was also on that list for 20 [TS]

01:09:01 ◼   ► years yeah I graduate from college I got [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► to finish that book I got to finish that [TS]

01:09:05 ◼   ► album and every morning I would wake up [TS]

01:09:07 ◼   ► and there was no I never had a small [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► list like get your pants on get some [TS]

01:09:16 ◼   ► make some toast get out of the house you [TS]

01:09:19 ◼   ► know at the end of every day I never had [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► a list that I could that I could look at [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► and say I checked everything off that [TS]

01:09:25 ◼   ► list good job at the end of every day [TS]

01:09:28 ◼   ► the only list I had was graduate from [TS]

01:09:32 ◼   ► college finished that book finished that [TS]

01:09:35 ◼   ► album and so at the end of every day all [TS]

01:09:39 ◼   ► I ever looked at was a list that seemed [TS]

01:09:41 ◼   ► real simple right it only had three [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► items on it and they were all items that [TS]

01:09:47 ◼   ► you know it it wasn't like start writing [TS]

01:09:50 ◼   ► that book it was you up 450 pages [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► written just to finish it huh as a [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► retired productivity group guru I'll [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► tell you those are not easy items no I [TS]

01:09:59 ◼   ► know because I spent 15 years looking at [TS]

01:10:02 ◼   ► that 3 item list and it was a drag to [TS]

01:10:08 ◼   ► never be able to check a single thing [TS]

01:10:11 ◼   ► off of a list and I didn't I didn't [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► understand the thought technology of [TS]

01:10:15 ◼   ► like make a stupid list of things and [TS]

01:10:17 ◼   ► check them off and you'll feel good [TS]

01:10:18 ◼   ► about yourself at the end of the day and [TS]

01:10:21 ◼   ► also I've never been able to complete a [TS]

01:10:25 ◼   ► project by making small manageable [TS]

01:10:27 ◼   ► choices like all you need to do today is [TS]

01:10:31 ◼   ► go in and cross all the T's and dot all [TS]

01:10:33 ◼   ► the icer all you need to do today is [TS]

01:10:35 ◼   ► write 500 words or you know I've never [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► been good at that well so last year 2016 [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► I think 2000 at December of 2015 I got [TS]

01:10:47 ◼   ► that letter in the mail an envelope from [TS]

01:10:50 ◼   ► the University of Washington that shaped [TS]

01:10:52 ◼   ► like a diploma have I told you this no I [TS]

01:11:00 ◼   ► got an I got a diploma shaped manila [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► envelope from the University of [TS]

01:11:06 ◼   ► Washington so far so good [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► and I looked at it I was like there's [TS]

01:11:11 ◼   ► not that many things this could be and I [TS]

01:11:15 ◼   ► think it is my diploma I think I have [TS]

01:11:20 ◼   ► graduated from the University did it [TS]

01:11:23 ◼   ► take you this long to open it my god I [TS]

01:11:25 ◼   ► would have torn that open well I've [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► never opened oh I put it on the I put it [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► on the bookshelf and it's still there [TS]

01:11:36 ◼   ► Wow and I look at it maybe not every day [TS]

01:11:41 ◼   ► but it's right there it's like [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► Schrodinger's diploma it is that's [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► exactly right inside that envelope I [TS]

01:11:49 ◼   ► think is a diploma I think if I went [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► online I could probably find out whether [TS]

01:11:55 ◼   ► or not I had graduated but I don't I'm [TS]

01:11:57 ◼   ► not interested in doing that either and [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► as far as I know until I open that [TS]

01:12:02 ◼   ► envelope it's not official I don't know [TS]

01:12:08 ◼   ► seems reasonable uh-huh I've never seen [TS]

01:12:11 ◼   ► a diploma I don't even know what it [TS]

01:12:15 ◼   ► would say what I don't even know what it [TS]

01:12:17 ◼   ► like what do they look like even yeah is [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► it gonna say like graduated with honors [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► is it gonna say like barely eked by is [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► it gonna say spent twenty four years in [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► college white ribbon the white ribbon [TS]

01:12:32 ◼   ► well I'll speak for the audience why do [TS]

01:12:38 ◼   ► you suppose you haven't opened it [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► because you want it you want it to stay [TS]

01:12:44 ◼   ► a cat that could be alive or dead uh I [TS]

01:12:48 ◼   ► don't know I mean it might be that it [TS]

01:12:54 ◼   ► might be that if I open it then I will [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► check one of those three things off the [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► list I'll scratch one of those three [TS]

01:13:03 ◼   ► things off the list and it will it will [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► both make the other two things seem even [TS]

01:13:09 ◼   ► like even starker now there's only two [TS]

01:13:14 ◼   ► things on the list but also you know to [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► carry around because it's not like I [TS]

01:13:21 ◼   ► just [TS]

01:13:22 ◼   ► it's not like I waited 15 years to [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► graduate from college [TS]

01:13:27 ◼   ► I've waited 30 years to graduate from [TS]

01:13:30 ◼   ► college like I went into Gonzaga [TS]

01:13:34 ◼   ► University as a freshman in September of [TS]