253: I Think I Ordered One
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percent off your first purchase make
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your next move with a beautiful website
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from Squarespace I actually had a call
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with Apple PR last week about the iMac
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Pro after we recorded what did you get a
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call Casey I didn't get a call I did not
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get to go out of course I didn't get a
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call I mean come on you sound like the
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biggest of iMac Pro fans in the fray
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they would call Casey you know yeah
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Casey has a review unit that would be
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that would be the ultimate trol oh my
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god that would that be amazing but no I
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have received no calls of any sort I am
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I am not special well anyway they reach
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out to me and said they wanted to
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schedule a call I was very pleasantly
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surprised and so I prepared some
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questions and I you know didn't know
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what to expect but it was really nice it
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was really you know pretty pretty open
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pretty laid-back I mean you know and to
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just set the the expectations a little
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bit like sometimes people will get mad
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at you know like somebody like like when
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John grouper has his podcast where he'll
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occasionally have an Apple executive on
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some people get mad that he doesn't ask
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certain questions like things like you
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know when's the next Mac Pro coming cuz
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like you know the reality is like apples
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not going to tell you about future
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products it's kind of a waste of a
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question like if you're only given a
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limited amount of time it's a waste of
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time to ask them questions they are
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unlikely to answer or Lord likely to
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give you the answer you want you know
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like it's so like asking about like when
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future products are coming or really
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asking anything about future products is
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a waste of time so I didn't I'm sure
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someone's gonna be mad and write in
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because of something I didn't ask but
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that was generally there might be things
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I just didn't think about but generally
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there were a lot of things that I didn't
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ask because the real question even if it
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wasn't a phrase a certain way you can
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tell the real question is really about a
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future product so for example like I
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wanted to ask about like you know why
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are there so many USB a ports and a card
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reader on the back but I knew like
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that's really a question about the
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MacBook Pro that was my question you did
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so you didn't ask that was my first
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thing to ask you you didn't ask my
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question I actually did kind of ask it
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but I didn't get the response that was
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like well you know our Pro customers
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hated the MacBook Pro like no it wasn't
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like that it was basically explaining
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like you know
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we offer the ports as many as we could
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for a pro customers it's like that kind
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of thing ya know that's what that's that
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question there's those type of questions
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because you can't ask them about future
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things you can only ask them about the
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product so basically that's that's the
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only way you ever you mean anything is
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to say why does product that you're at
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that we're talking about right now have
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a feature right so right why doesn't it
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you can't even say why does the iMac Pro
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have USBA ports and the MacBook Pro
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doesn't you have to just say I noticed
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there's a lot of USB 8 ports in the back
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why are those there or like why does it
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have them and like in to give them the
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opportunity to give their canned PR
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answer and if they don't have a camp
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your answer because I thought you know
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whatever ask that then they have to
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think on their feet and maybe you get a
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little bit of insight but sometimes
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there may be very forthcoming about you
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know like they could say there's some
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specific customers that we talk to that
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really important USB or peripherals and
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we thought like you never know what
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they're gonna say and that's the way to
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get get legit information out of it you
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just have to know how to phrase it not
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as this computer doesn't have them what
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is the iMac Pro have them because that's
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not going to put them in the right frame
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of mind to give you any good info right
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exactly anyway it's very clear that they
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really are very heavily focused on
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developers for this machine you know it
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wasn't immediately obvious when the PR
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first came out like on whatever day it
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was that all the all the embargoes that
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said on that like the first week review
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units it wasn't incredibly obvious then
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because everything that came out first
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was all like youtubers and so we all
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thought myself included like wow they
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just gave it to youtubers that's kind of
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I guess that's understandable but then
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as it turned out like later that day we
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saw a bunch of like tweets and blog
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posts many of which were from developers
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and it's very clear that they actually
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were reaching out to lot developers for
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this and developers just aren't that
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good at like you know being at minute
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one after an embargo and stuff like that
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because developers are not
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you know usually reviewers or
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journalists so that's you know it's kind
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of like trying to coordinate cats to all
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do something
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well I still believe the cats are all a
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hive mind and they're all the same cat
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just different visions of the same cat
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yeah very strong focus on developers
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here they really you could tell that
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they worked with lot of developers and
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development they talked to a lot of
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developers they clearly cared a lot
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about developer needs because a lot of
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these are gonna sell to high-end
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developers they're gonna sell
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- you know just people like me who are
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willing to spend the money on a very
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very fast machine for our app
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development they're gonna sell to you
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know VR developers you know hopefully
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and you know high end developers content
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creators and cetera so like they were
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very concerned about making sure that
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this was a good machine for developers
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and I really respect that and even
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though you know it's kind of I'm a
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little bit biased and that because I'm a
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developer and this worked out for me
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because they wanted to talk to me
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so obviously I'm a little bit biased but
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I thought that was a really good angle
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they seemed sincere about it they seem
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like they've really done their homework
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then their diligence and done their
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research and for instance like one of
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the things was that 10 core they find is
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is the most ideal configuration for most
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developer workflows and they know this
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because they actually did tests and you
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know work of people and figured out what
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people do and and were able to tell that
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like usually after about the 10 core
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mark the you know today's tools tend to
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not use many of the cores after that or
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your bottlenecked by other things like
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i/o so that made total sense one of
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these I asked about because you know
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last show we had a lot of discussion
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about the thermal design of the iMac Pro
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and and about the idea that they were
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down clocking the the two base CPUs
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violate 10% or something at their base
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clocks and we're kind of saying you know
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John had a lot of thoughts about it and
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kind of saying like you know why drop
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down the performance to fit in the
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enclosure that nobody was asking you to
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fit it in so I asked a lot about this
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and they were pretty unwavering about
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that they didn't like cram it in here
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unnecessarily they tried to see if they
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could fit workstation components into
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this case and they could you know they
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did a lot of redesigning of the thermal
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so like because there is no 3.5 inch
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disc offered in the iMac Pro that frees
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up a pretty large block of pretty
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premium space right in the middle and
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and you know the screen I have just
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compared to the in terms of my Mac are
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huge and it certainly does seem like
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they have filled a lot of that space
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with like heatsink basically because it
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certainly has a massive heatsink
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apparatus back there from the pictures
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so the the impression I got from this
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question is that
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they didn't have to compromise to fit
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the workstation parts into this case
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they designed it it fit and there seems
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to be Headroom which I get to in a
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little bit so what do they say about the
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down clocking we had some feedback about
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that so this is the base CPUs that you
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talked about but there's also the GPUs
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which I didn't know whether they were
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down clocking and I speculated that
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maybe they'd be 90% down but someone
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emailed the show to say there are
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actually 83% down clock versus what they
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would be like if you took that same card
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and put it in a PC and so and also one
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other bit of feedback about down
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clocking specifically the GPUs again I
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don't know if the provenance of this
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information is sound or not but someone
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emailed it to suggest that AMD has been
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optimistic with the clock speeds and
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that really if you run them at the
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quote-unquote rated speed it shortens
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their life and Apple cares more about
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them so that they just by you know they
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just always run them slightly down
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clocked anyway just because if they
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don't they'll have reliability problems
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I don't know if that's crash can't fall
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out or just total BS or just speculation
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or whatever but anyway all we know is
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the the numbers we can look at and
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apparently if you buy this exact card
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from AMD and it's on a player card slot
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the iMac is running them 83 percent
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slower which is you know not not
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insignificant so when they say can we
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fit it yes they could fit it but if you
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can fit it by down clocking and using
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slower speed things did you really fit
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it or did you have to compromise them
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something like I feel like their answer
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to you is just rephrasing the question
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like why did you fit everything inside
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the case we wanted to see if we could
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fair yeah but why well I didn't like
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what the real question is why didn't you
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make a new case and that the reason
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there was like old we didn't want to
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spend that much money on it it would be
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a lot of design time we wouldn't you
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know like there's other reasons that
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they're probably not going to tell you
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of why they didn't design a new case
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because surely it is faster to market
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and cost them less money in less time
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and less everything to use the same
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external design probably well that I was
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gonna say they get to use the same visa
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mounts but they did change that part of
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the case so I don't know it's still
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slightly mysterious to me but anyway
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that from as far as we can tell you take
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those same parts and put them in an ugly
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boxy PC and you can get them all to run
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at fast
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speeds or use hi urban parts yeah I mean
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the the GPU I honestly I I don't have
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any qualifications to talk about GPUs so
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I didn't ask really anything about them
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because I don't know any much GPUs but
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on the cpu part as a guru points out a
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lot like Apple doesn't usually lie like
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01:09:12
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you know they'll spin things a certain
[TS]
01:09:14
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way if they want to but they don't
[TS]
01:09:15
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usually outright lie like usually if
[TS]
01:09:17
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they tell you a straight out answer that
[TS]
01:09:19
◼
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is the truth so and in this case like
[TS]
01:09:22
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they were very clear that like they
[TS]
01:09:24
◼
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didn't need to change the case and and
[TS]
01:09:26
◼
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there's some thermal stuff that that
[TS]
01:09:28
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I'll get to in a few minutes that that I
[TS]
01:09:29
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think probably supports that theory if
[TS]
01:09:32
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it ends up being you know panning out
[TS]
01:09:33
◼
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that way on the subject of the CPU down
[TS]
01:09:37
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clocking so I did some research before
[TS]
01:09:39
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the call and I discovered that it's only
[TS]
01:09:41
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the eight and ten core that are down
[TS]
01:09:43
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clocked from there like retail speeds
[TS]
01:09:45
◼
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from the retail parts the the 14 and 18
[TS]
01:09:48
◼
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are identical they are all overrated at
[TS]
01:09:50
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the same TDP to the same heat capacity
[TS]
01:09:53
◼
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of 140 watts they all are the same the
[TS]
01:09:56
◼
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eight and ten core chips are special
[TS]
01:09:59
◼
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chips that were made by Intel just for
[TS]
01:10:01
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apples OEM use here that's why they even
[TS]
01:10:04
◼
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have different model numbers they they
[TS]
01:10:05
◼
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have a B on the end and they're like
[TS]
01:10:06
◼
►
slightly different numbers than their
[TS]
01:10:07
◼
►
counterparts if you look at all into the
[TS]
01:10:09
◼
►
Wikipedia table that lists all this all
[TS]
01:10:11
◼
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this guy like Zeon's so you can see like
[TS]
01:10:13
◼
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there these are special chips that are
[TS]
01:10:15
◼
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only used in you know by Apple and only
[TS]
01:10:18
◼
►
so far only in the iMac Pro and their
[TS]
01:10:20
◼
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answer to that was basically like you
[TS]
01:10:22
◼
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know you know they are they are the
[TS]
01:10:23
◼
►
custom part from Intel and that's just
[TS]
01:10:25
◼
►
how the how the clock speeds bend out
[TS]
01:10:27
◼
►
for these chips one of the things they
[TS]
01:10:29
◼
►
wanted to make sure of is that all of
[TS]
01:10:31
◼
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the processors that are available in the
[TS]
01:10:34
◼
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iMac Pro have the same avx-512
[TS]
01:10:37
◼
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processing capacity these are the new
[TS]
01:10:39
◼
►
instructions that are I think new to
[TS]
01:10:41
◼
►
these chips or at least a new to the
[TS]
01:10:42
◼
►
current generation of Zeon's these are
[TS]
01:10:46
◼
►
super high high-end like vector
[TS]
01:10:47
◼
►
instructions for certain types of math
[TS]
01:10:49
◼
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that can be very well optimized some of
[TS]
01:10:51
◼
►
the Zeon's that are in this family only
[TS]
01:10:53
◼
►
have one compute unit the high-end ones
[TS]
01:10:56
◼
►
have two Apple made sure that all of
[TS]
01:10:58
◼
►
theirs have to that being said I looked
[TS]
01:11:02
◼
►
at the specs for the corresponding parts
[TS]
01:11:04
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that are slightly higher clocked and
[TS]
01:11:05
◼
►
they have to also so I'm not entirely
[TS]
01:11:08
◼
►
what that means right now that could be
[TS]
01:11:10
◼
►
it could have been a later change in the
[TS]
01:11:11
◼
►
in the release cycle for Intel where
[TS]
01:11:14
◼
►
they decided to put two on those or it
[TS]
01:11:15
◼
►
could have been referencing different
[TS]
01:11:16
◼
►
parts they could have used but didn't
[TS]
01:11:17
◼
►
but the important thing that I got from
[TS]
01:11:20
◼
►
the call is that they didn't see see
[TS]
01:11:22
◼
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this has an artificial lowering of the
[TS]
01:11:24
◼
►
clock speed this is just how they were
[TS]
01:11:25
◼
►
bent out for their custom part and they
[TS]
01:11:27
◼
►
made sure their custom parts all had the
[TS]
01:11:29
◼
►
same avx-512 dual processing units so
[TS]
01:11:33
◼
►
let's custom about them besides the
[TS]
01:11:35
◼
►
besides the AVX stuff I don't know I can
[TS]
01:11:38
◼
►
ask them I mean that you know they
[TS]
01:11:39
◼
►
they're friendly they'll probably answer
[TS]
01:11:41
◼
►
an email if I ask them so I think our
[TS]
01:11:45
◼
►
concerns about the thermals are probably
[TS]
01:11:47
◼
►
unwarranted because what I heard from
[TS]
01:11:50
◼
►
them which confirms what I heard from
[TS]
01:11:52
◼
►
other people who were at their demos or
[TS]
01:11:54
◼
►
who've had a review units so far it
[TS]
01:11:57
◼
►
sounds like there is a lot of thermal
[TS]
01:11:59
◼
►
Headroom they had certain demos at these
[TS]
01:12:03
◼
►
events that were running on loops all
[TS]
01:12:05
◼
►
day long that were stressing all the CPU
[TS]
01:12:07
◼
►
cores at like 60% or higher all the time
[TS]
01:12:09
◼
►
and that you couldn't even really hear
[TS]
01:12:11
◼
►
the fan and and what I was told
[TS]
01:12:14
◼
►
it basically is that the way the
[TS]
01:12:16
◼
►
thermals work out in this generation
[TS]
01:12:18
◼
►
that you can hammer the CPU is pretty
[TS]
01:12:22
◼
►
hard and you probably won't hear the fan
[TS]
01:12:24
◼
►
spin up you will pretty much only hear
[TS]
01:12:26
◼
►
it get loud if you're hammering the CPUs
[TS]
01:12:28
◼
►
and the GPUs and actually and this
[TS]
01:12:31
◼
►
actually is plausible to me because this
[TS]
01:12:33
◼
►
is actually not that different from how
[TS]
01:12:34
◼
►
the sky like laptops work this is the
[TS]
01:12:36
◼
►
sky like and I and what is the ivy
[TS]
01:12:38
◼
►
bridge but I already forgot to forget so
[TS]
01:12:41
◼
►
the current laptop generation compared
[TS]
01:12:43
◼
►
to the the old one that I'm still
[TS]
01:12:44
◼
►
holding on to is way quieter under CPU
[TS]
01:12:47
◼
►
load it doesn't spin up for nearly as
[TS]
01:12:49
◼
►
you know as long you know and and you
[TS]
01:12:52
◼
►
know it cools down much faster and
[TS]
01:12:53
◼
►
everything else so given that these are
[TS]
01:12:55
◼
►
the Zeon's from the skylake family that
[TS]
01:12:56
◼
►
actually I think makes sense that's
[TS]
01:12:59
◼
►
believable to me and it does seem like
[TS]
01:13:02
◼
►
they've designed this with a lot of
[TS]
01:13:03
◼
►
thermal Headroom so for the moment
[TS]
01:13:07
◼
►
having not used one of these yet having
[TS]
01:13:08
◼
►
our own one of these yet it does sound
[TS]
01:13:11
◼
►
like they are not concerned about
[TS]
01:13:13
◼
►
thermals and all the demo units and all
[TS]
01:13:15
◼
►
the review units out there so far have
[TS]
01:13:17
◼
►
shown pretty awesome thermal thermal and
[TS]
01:13:18
◼
►
noise performance so so far it seems
[TS]
01:13:21
◼
►
tentatively
[TS]
01:13:22
◼
►
like it might be pretty awesome on the
[TS]
01:13:23
◼
►
thermal and heat front and therefore
[TS]
01:13:25
◼
►
that also supports their position that
[TS]
01:13:28
◼
►
these aren't really down clocked for
[TS]
01:13:30
◼
►
meaningful performance reasons well you
[TS]
01:13:32
◼
►
keep excluding the GPU because you
[TS]
01:13:33
◼
►
didn't want to talk about but it's
[TS]
01:13:34
◼
►
happen or than half of the heat in here
[TS]
01:13:37
◼
►
and certainly half of the equation like
[TS]
01:13:39
◼
►
if the if this info from is is just from
[TS]
01:13:42
◼
►
a listener because I don't know though
[TS]
01:13:43
◼
►
the clock speeds of this Jeep unit stuff
[TS]
01:13:44
◼
►
but if if these GPUs really are at 83%
[TS]
01:13:46
◼
►
of the clock speed that if you were to
[TS]
01:13:48
◼
►
buy the same card and put it in a PC and
[TS]
01:13:51
◼
►
get the fastest one like why would you
[TS]
01:13:53
◼
►
choose to do that if you got the thermal
[TS]
01:13:54
◼
►
Headroom it doesn't you know especially
[TS]
01:13:57
◼
►
if it's like literally the same part
[TS]
01:13:58
◼
►
down clock to not just been differently
[TS]
01:14:00
◼
►
for pricing thing like I don't quite
[TS]
01:14:02
◼
►
understand how that math works out so it
[TS]
01:14:05
◼
►
sounds like for the CPU we have some
[TS]
01:14:07
◼
►
good information on it and certainly
[TS]
01:14:09
◼
►
you've been doing things the stress of
[TS]
01:14:10
◼
►
CPU and it seems like there's plenty of
[TS]
01:14:11
◼
►
room but kind of like in the trashcan if
[TS]
01:14:13
◼
►
you happen to do something that uses
[TS]
01:14:15
◼
►
them both at once what does that do to
[TS]
01:14:17
◼
►
things like you know why the explanation
[TS]
01:14:20
◼
►
for why the the CPUs are down clock like
[TS]
01:14:22
◼
►
oh that's just how they bend out and
[TS]
01:14:23
◼
►
maybe they had to be slower clocked
[TS]
01:14:25
◼
►
because they've got the two AVX units
[TS]
01:14:27
◼
►
and the normal ones that size didn't
[TS]
01:14:29
◼
►
that kind of make some kind of sense
[TS]
01:14:30
◼
►
right but why on the other side of the
[TS]
01:14:33
◼
►
case where the other fan is blowing into
[TS]
01:14:36
◼
►
you know what it likes when both hands
[TS]
01:14:37
◼
►
are rolling through the same heatsink
[TS]
01:14:38
◼
►
but anyway on the other side of the case
[TS]
01:14:39
◼
►
where the GPU is why if that if that
[TS]
01:14:43
◼
►
stuff actually has clocked down and by
[TS]
01:14:44
◼
►
the way if you're if you know the exact
[TS]
01:14:46
◼
►
clock speeds of like the the GPUs CPU
[TS]
01:14:49
◼
►
and memory buses please send it to the
[TS]
01:14:51
◼
►
show like that doesn't match up with the
[TS]
01:14:55
◼
►
idea that there's plenty of thermal
[TS]
01:14:57
◼
►
Headroom because especially like on the
[TS]
01:14:59
◼
►
high end part why wouldn't you run those
[TS]
01:15:01
◼
►
that they're full speed yeah and
[TS]
01:15:03
◼
►
honestly I again I just I don't know
[TS]
01:15:04
◼
►
whether they're whether from at full
[TS]
01:15:06
◼
►
speed or not I I will say they're like
[TS]
01:15:08
◼
►
you know they didn't nothing they said
[TS]
01:15:10
◼
►
indicated that it couldn't handle
[TS]
01:15:11
◼
►
stressing both the CPU and GPU just that
[TS]
01:15:14
◼
►
you'd be more likely to hear it yeah I
[TS]
01:15:16
◼
►
don't know I would imagine the demos
[TS]
01:15:17
◼
►
that they should actually did stress
[TS]
01:15:18
◼
►
both of them you know we haven't been
[TS]
01:15:20
◼
►
there for the demos but I think the
[TS]
01:15:21
◼
►
demos probably did stress both the GPU
[TS]
01:15:23
◼
►
and the CPU so maybe those are a good
[TS]
01:15:24
◼
►
example and you know and maybe again
[TS]
01:15:26
◼
►
they traded the quiet for like look if
[TS]
01:15:28
◼
►
we if we clock this it at 83% of max
[TS]
01:15:31
◼
►
speed we can just be quiet all the time
[TS]
01:15:33
◼
►
or Wyden isn't that a better pro
[TS]
01:15:34
◼
►
experience then allowing it to get noisy
[TS]
01:15:37
◼
►
you know for this particular case
[TS]
01:15:39
◼
►
because maybe some people are using
[TS]
01:15:41
◼
►
applications that are stressing both of
[TS]
01:15:42
◼
►
them all the time and it's not a great
[TS]
01:15:44
◼
►
experience for the pro Mac whose fans
[TS]
01:15:47
◼
►
you can't escape by putting it under the
[TS]
01:15:48
◼
►
desk to be noisy like I can I can come
[TS]
01:15:51
◼
►
up with all sorts of reasons why they
[TS]
01:15:52
◼
►
can explain this because again this is
[TS]
01:15:53
◼
►
the the compact pearl machine it's not
[TS]
01:15:56
◼
►
it's not the Mac Pro right side Adam I
[TS]
01:15:59
◼
►
don't know which those of those
[TS]
01:16:02
◼
►
explanations that I could come up on on
[TS]
01:16:04
◼
►
my own is the right one if any you know
[TS]
01:16:07
◼
►
and maybe III think what you know what
[TS]
01:16:09
◼
►
you said about kind of like hitting like
[TS]
01:16:10
◼
►
a constant load minimum heat performance
[TS]
01:16:13
◼
►
kind of thing that might be related to
[TS]
01:16:15
◼
►
the way the CPUs are clocked because it
[TS]
01:16:18
◼
►
I think it says something that these all
[TS]
01:16:20
◼
►
have the same TDP so like when driven
[TS]
01:16:22
◼
►
fully like at maximum all the core
[TS]
01:16:25
◼
►
stressed they will all cap out at the
[TS]
01:16:27
◼
►
same heat output at all the core counts
[TS]
01:16:30
◼
►
however only the bottom two chips had
[TS]
01:16:33
◼
►
their base clocks reduced from from the
[TS]
01:16:36
◼
►
Intel retail parts so maybe it really is
[TS]
01:16:38
◼
►
like a heat and noise thing because the
[TS]
01:16:40
◼
►
way turbo boost works you know that with
[TS]
01:16:42
◼
►
all the all modern Intel chips like if
[TS]
01:16:44
◼
►
it has thermal Headroom it will increase
[TS]
01:16:47
◼
►
its its clock speed until it hits a
[TS]
01:16:50
◼
►
certain maximum that it won't go past or
[TS]
01:16:51
◼
►
until it starts getting too hot or until
[TS]
01:16:54
◼
►
certain until like more cores get
[TS]
01:16:56
◼
►
engaged and then it's just it starts to
[TS]
01:16:57
◼
►
reduce the overall sealing on them so
[TS]
01:16:59
◼
►
that keeps below that threshold but it
[TS]
01:17:01
◼
►
doesn't ever go below the base speed and
[TS]
01:17:04
◼
►
what the and and the turbo clock is
[TS]
01:17:06
◼
►
reduced went on those two that they've
[TS]
01:17:08
◼
►
modified the eight and ten core they did
[TS]
01:17:10
◼
►
reduce the turbo boost max speed as well
[TS]
01:17:12
◼
►
so I don't know what that means in this
[TS]
01:17:14
◼
►
in this theory but by reducing the base
[TS]
01:17:17
◼
►
clock it's still gonna turbo up a lot
[TS]
01:17:19
◼
►
when it's in use but it's gonna run at
[TS]
01:17:22
◼
►
the reduced base clock speed when it's
[TS]
01:17:24
◼
►
not doing heavy lifting and so maybe
[TS]
01:17:27
◼
►
that is primarily there for you know
[TS]
01:17:31
◼
►
lower noise and heat when it's most of
[TS]
01:17:34
◼
►
the time doing pretty light work
[TS]
01:17:36
◼
►
so really all of our well maybe not all
[TS]
01:17:40
◼
►
but a lot of our qualms from last
[TS]
01:17:42
◼
►
episode may be a little premature yeah I
[TS]
01:17:45
◼
►
mean yeah the answer really is we don't
[TS]
01:17:47
◼
►
no yet until until we really get these
[TS]
01:17:49
◼
►
machines until I get this machine but
[TS]
01:17:53
◼
►
although well I'll get to that in a
[TS]
01:17:55
◼
►
minute but uh until I really get these
[TS]
01:17:57
◼
►
machines we really can't be incredibly
[TS]
01:17:59
◼
►
sure about any of these things
[TS]
01:18:00
◼
►
I am hopeful now with you know after
[TS]
01:18:03
◼
►
having this call and also having you
[TS]
01:18:05
◼
►
know heard from the reviewers and the
[TS]
01:18:07
◼
►
people who were at these events it
[TS]
01:18:09
◼
►
doesn't sound like there's reason to be
[TS]
01:18:10
◼
►
concerned about the thermals yet and
[TS]
01:18:12
◼
►
that's pretty promising I I'm very happy
[TS]
01:18:15
◼
►
to hear that because that was my big
[TS]
01:18:16
◼
►
concern going into this it seems like
[TS]
01:18:18
◼
►
there's a lot of headroom and that they
[TS]
01:18:20
◼
►
didn't need to make the case bigger and
[TS]
01:18:23
◼
►
make it full of holes like what john
[TS]
01:18:24
◼
►
wanted so we'll see if that if that
[TS]
01:18:26
◼
►
actually pans out but III think it's
[TS]
01:18:28
◼
►
plausible I asked a few more things kind
[TS]
01:18:32
◼
►
of like side notes here on the t2 one
[TS]
01:18:35
◼
►
thing I thought was very interesting is
[TS]
01:18:36
◼
►
that it is indeed the SSD controller
[TS]
01:18:39
◼
►
like it is the disk controller and in
[TS]
01:18:42
◼
►
all of the configurations not just the
[TS]
01:18:45
◼
►
four terabyte one it uses dual SSD
[TS]
01:18:48
◼
►
modules and I use them parallel for
[TS]
01:18:50
◼
►
performance and so even if the fight
[TS]
01:18:52
◼
►
even if you get the terabyte that's just
[TS]
01:18:54
◼
►
using two 512 and with the t2
[TS]
01:18:57
◼
►
controlling it you know that it isn't it
[TS]
01:19:00
◼
►
isn't abstracted to the OS as to disks
[TS]
01:19:02
◼
►
the way if you just plug in like a two
[TS]
01:19:03
◼
►
disk enclosure without any kind of raid
[TS]
01:19:04
◼
►
functionality it shows it but to this it
[TS]
01:19:06
◼
►
isn't like that it shows up as one disk
[TS]
01:19:08
◼
►
the controller shows it as one device
[TS]
01:19:10
◼
►
but behind the scenes it is actually
[TS]
01:19:12
◼
►
using two in parallel it's one of the
[TS]
01:19:14
◼
►
reasons why they're so freaking fast
[TS]
01:19:15
◼
►
we got anonymous feedback about that by
[TS]
01:19:18
◼
►
the way about the dual module thing and
[TS]
01:19:20
◼
►
like I think it just what it boils down
[TS]
01:19:21
◼
►
to is like you just do the benchmark
[TS]
01:19:23
◼
►
look at the performance it's like three
[TS]
01:19:24
◼
►
gigabytes per second read and write
[TS]
01:19:25
◼
►
roughly it's like it's a little bit less
[TS]
01:19:27
◼
►
for right right so the debate about
[TS]
01:19:30
◼
►
single versus dual the feedback we got
[TS]
01:19:32
◼
►
is that it's not actually a dual module
[TS]
01:19:33
◼
►
it's just one module that's split into
[TS]
01:19:35
◼
►
two bits of silicon but the bottom line
[TS]
01:19:36
◼
►
is that what is it like for PCI Express
[TS]
01:19:39
◼
►
Lanes going to this controller yes like
[TS]
01:19:41
◼
►
you you get the results you get and you
[TS]
01:19:44
◼
►
know what whether it's because they're
[TS]
01:19:45
◼
►
dual or it's just one good they could
[TS]
01:19:47
◼
►
have put it on a single chip of four
[TS]
01:19:49
◼
►
different packaging reasons is that they
[TS]
01:19:51
◼
►
are giving you the PCI Express Lanes to
[TS]
01:19:53
◼
►
get maximum performance out of the SSDs
[TS]
01:19:55
◼
►
and the performance is
[TS]
01:19:56
◼
►
better than any other mac essentially
[TS]
01:19:58
◼
►
and did you did you ask them about the
[TS]
01:20:01
◼
►
encryption stuff as well a little bit
[TS]
01:20:02
◼
►
yeah I mean I didn't have a lot of
[TS]
01:20:04
◼
►
question on it because I didn't know
[TS]
01:20:05
◼
►
enough to ask really about but yeah it
[TS]
01:20:08
◼
►
is certainly do it's doing all the
[TS]
01:20:09
◼
►
encryption in hardware like in the t2 so
[TS]
01:20:12
◼
►
there so any so there's two different
[TS]
01:20:14
◼
►
types of encryption going on here
[TS]
01:20:16
◼
►
there's the hardware encryption kind of
[TS]
01:20:17
◼
►
like what iOS devices have where like
[TS]
01:20:19
◼
►
the actual data on the flash is
[TS]
01:20:21
◼
►
encrypted even if you're not using File
[TS]
01:20:23
◼
►
Vault it is encrypted and if you take
[TS]
01:20:26
◼
►
that SSD stick or whatever it is out of
[TS]
01:20:29
◼
►
the iMac Pro and put it in some kind of
[TS]
01:20:31
◼
►
enclosure or another I Mac Pro to try to
[TS]
01:20:33
◼
►
read it you won't be able to because the
[TS]
01:20:35
◼
►
key to decrypt it is you know secure
[TS]
01:20:38
◼
►
Enclave style stored on that t2 the
[TS]
01:20:40
◼
►
reading of the flash is tied to that
[TS]
01:20:42
◼
►
hardware so the only way to read the
[TS]
01:20:45
◼
►
data on the flash is if you can get that
[TS]
01:20:47
◼
►
computer to read it for you if you do
[TS]
01:20:49
◼
►
things like set a firmware password or
[TS]
01:20:50
◼
►
something obviously that's going to
[TS]
01:20:51
◼
►
provide pretty good security on that so
[TS]
01:20:53
◼
►
like you so we can't boot other things I
[TS]
01:20:54
◼
►
actually I didn't ask too much about
[TS]
01:20:56
◼
►
like today like what's different now
[TS]
01:20:59
◼
►
with this with the new secure boot stuff
[TS]
01:21:01
◼
►
with things like firmware passwords and
[TS]
01:21:02
◼
►
boot options and whether it will boot
[TS]
01:21:04
◼
►
external media and stuff like that I
[TS]
01:21:07
◼
►
know a lot of that has changed mostly
[TS]
01:21:09
◼
►
for the better it may be entirely for
[TS]
01:21:10
◼
►
the better so I I can't really talk
[TS]
01:21:12
◼
►
about VAX I don't know enough about it
[TS]
01:21:14
◼
►
yet so there's that level of encryption
[TS]
01:21:16
◼
►
and you can also use file vault on top
[TS]
01:21:19
◼
►
of that and if you do use File Vault its
[TS]
01:21:22
◼
►
encryption instructions are now hardware
[TS]
01:21:25
◼
►
accelerated so that's not even running
[TS]
01:21:27
◼
►
on the xeon it's running on the t - it's
[TS]
01:21:29
◼
►
not taxing xeon at all alright hardware
[TS]
01:21:32
◼
►
accelerated you got my you got my pet
[TS]
01:21:33
◼
►
peeve again oh now it's hardware
[TS]
01:21:35
◼
►
accelerated instead of being executed in
[TS]
01:21:37
◼
►
hardware it'll be executed on hardware
[TS]
01:21:40
◼
►
but there that you got the important
[TS]
01:21:42
◼
►
point is that you don't have to make the
[TS]
01:21:44
◼
►
cpu won't be involved in this so most
[TS]
01:21:46
◼
►
people are speculating like you know
[TS]
01:21:48
◼
►
that you know what performance hit do
[TS]
01:21:50
◼
►
you get for using encryption with HFS+
[TS]
01:21:53
◼
►
or a BFS and you could measure it and
[TS]
01:21:55
◼
►
you know apples like it's really small
[TS]
01:21:56
◼
►
or whatever I think some testing has
[TS]
01:21:58
◼
►
shown that the hit might actually be
[TS]
01:21:59
◼
►
more with a PFS than it was with a
[TS]
01:22:01
◼
►
better spot whether it's because a
[TS]
01:22:03
◼
►
better encryption or whatever
[TS]
01:22:05
◼
►
theoretically well first of all you know
[TS]
01:22:08
◼
►
assuredly this
[TS]
01:22:10
◼
►
we'll give you more CPU because you CPU
[TS]
01:22:13
◼
►
won't be doing any encryption stuff none
[TS]
01:22:15
◼
►
zero it'll all be done by the t2 which
[TS]
01:22:17
◼
►
is great like I like the idea of these
[TS]
01:22:18
◼
►
little custom coprocessors handling this
[TS]
01:22:20
◼
►
type of this very specific function
[TS]
01:22:21
◼
►
surely they have instructions just for
[TS]
01:22:22
◼
►
its great the second possibility that
[TS]
01:22:25
◼
►
some will have the benchmark to find out
[TS]
01:22:26
◼
►
is okay your CPU is freed up does the T
[TS]
01:22:29
◼
►
to do that encryption job faster than
[TS]
01:22:32
◼
►
the Xeon used to because you know it's
[TS]
01:22:33
◼
►
dedicated type of thing if it does that
[TS]
01:22:36
◼
►
means there would be less of a
[TS]
01:22:37
◼
►
performance hit for enabling FileVault
[TS]
01:22:39
◼
►
on an iMac Pro with the t2 and that's
[TS]
01:22:41
◼
►
something we'll have to benchmark I mean
[TS]
01:22:44
◼
►
I'm guessing there's probably some kind
[TS]
01:22:46
◼
►
of smart implementation detail where cuz
[TS]
01:22:48
◼
►
like it's already in the t20 as the disk
[TS]
01:22:52
◼
►
and controller you know and doing that
[TS]
01:22:54
◼
►
hardware encryption the way OS devices
[TS]
01:22:56
◼
►
do it's already encrypting everything in
[TS]
01:22:59
◼
►
and out at full speed even when firewall
[TS]
01:23:01
◼
►
it's not on
[TS]
01:23:02
◼
►
so I'm guessing by using File Vault
[TS]
01:23:06
◼
►
you're probably just like having another
[TS]
01:23:08
◼
►
mode of maybe of that same encryption or
[TS]
01:23:10
◼
►
having the keys combine in some way or
[TS]
01:23:12
◼
►
something like that I don't know the
[TS]
01:23:14
◼
►
details enough to say but it could be
[TS]
01:23:15
◼
►
and if that's the case there will be
[TS]
01:23:16
◼
►
zero speed hit because like it's doing
[TS]
01:23:18
◼
►
it whether you have File Vault on or not
[TS]
01:23:19
◼
►
and so it's you know like this this
[TS]
01:23:21
◼
►
should be borne out by the benchmarks
[TS]
01:23:23
◼
►
but but it's it's an intriguing
[TS]
01:23:24
◼
►
possibility this brings me back to the
[TS]
01:23:25
◼
►
good old days of film to try media
[TS]
01:23:28
◼
►
accelerator you guys don't remember that
[TS]
01:23:30
◼
►
but know what they're there I have it
[TS]
01:23:32
◼
►
very even in the early days of Mac I was
[TS]
01:23:33
◼
►
too much maybe you were you were around
[TS]
01:23:35
◼
►
for and remember the idea of Apple
[TS]
01:23:38
◼
►
adding chips to Mac's
[TS]
01:23:40
◼
►
to make them faster in basically magical
[TS]
01:23:43
◼
►
ways it's like yeah you can just take a
[TS]
01:23:44
◼
►
CPU and some RAM and a motherboard and
[TS]
01:23:47
◼
►
throw them together but the Apple
[TS]
01:23:49
◼
►
special sauce is they'll play special
[TS]
01:23:50
◼
►
magic chips on there that will make your
[TS]
01:23:51
◼
►
Mac better this is the actual reality of
[TS]
01:23:54
◼
►
the t2 chip and threw down there and I
[TS]
01:23:58
◼
►
mean even on Apple's on page like the
[TS]
01:23:59
◼
►
list of stuff this thing does in
[TS]
01:24:01
◼
►
addition to what we listed is image
[TS]
01:24:03
◼
►
signal processing for the front-facing
[TS]
01:24:04
◼
►
camera audio controller of course the
[TS]
01:24:08
◼
►
secure Enclave the the encryption oh
[TS]
01:24:11
◼
►
actually this is right from Apple's
[TS]
01:24:13
◼
►
marketing page the data in your SSD is
[TS]
01:24:15
◼
►
encrypted using dedicated AES Hardware
[TS]
01:24:16
◼
►
with no effect on the SSDs performance
[TS]
01:24:18
◼
►
it's not clear whether they're talking
[TS]
01:24:19
◼
►
about file vault or the other
[TS]
01:24:20
◼
►
thing but yeah they're like they're
[TS]
01:24:23
◼
►
actually doing something that they had
[TS]
01:24:25
◼
►
very rarely done in the past which is
[TS]
01:24:26
◼
►
throw throwing a chip the chip that
[TS]
01:24:29
◼
►
nobody else has to their computer
[TS]
01:24:31
◼
►
specifically to make them perform better
[TS]
01:24:32
◼
►
and who doesn't like that
[TS]
01:24:33
◼
►
that is a that is a great Pro feature
[TS]
01:24:35
◼
►
and if it lets them like you know these
[TS]
01:24:38
◼
►
are things you should be able to measure
[TS]
01:24:39
◼
►
if it lets them go faster on benchmarks
[TS]
01:24:43
◼
►
because the CPU is not involved in all
[TS]
01:24:45
◼
►
in any of the encryption on the disk
[TS]
01:24:46
◼
►
stuff that's that's a clean win and if
[TS]
01:24:49
◼
►
the T 2 as is rumored is heavily based
[TS]
01:24:51
◼
►
on an existing iPhone chip that's a
[TS]
01:24:54
◼
►
great reuse of IP like we already did
[TS]
01:24:57
◼
►
the work to design this chip for their
[TS]
01:24:58
◼
►
flagship product you can repurpose this
[TS]
01:25:00
◼
►
chip and throw it in with a combination
[TS]
01:25:03
◼
►
of a bunch of other stuff and maybe even
[TS]
01:25:04
◼
►
repurpose some software that you have to
[TS]
01:25:06
◼
►
do say image processing from the iPhone
[TS]
01:25:08
◼
►
or whatever you know and maybe disk
[TS]
01:25:11
◼
►
controller stuff I don't know how much
[TS]
01:25:12
◼
►
of that is shared with the iOS devices
[TS]
01:25:14
◼
►
that might be using a similar thing this
[TS]
01:25:16
◼
►
is a smart way to make a better faster
[TS]
01:25:19
◼
►
computer and I hope the Mac Pro has
[TS]
01:25:21
◼
►
something just like this even though you
[TS]
01:25:22
◼
►
know presumably doesn't have a front
[TS]
01:25:24
◼
►
facing camera or whatever and I think
[TS]
01:25:26
◼
►
you know one of the things we said when
[TS]
01:25:27
◼
►
when the touch bar was launched was you
[TS]
01:25:30
◼
►
know this actually does show like they
[TS]
01:25:31
◼
►
are putting significant engineering
[TS]
01:25:33
◼
►
resources into the Mac still you know
[TS]
01:25:35
◼
►
not as much as we would like sometimes
[TS]
01:25:36
◼
►
but clearly like it isn't just sitting
[TS]
01:25:39
◼
►
around being completely neglected like
[TS]
01:25:41
◼
►
this wasn't this wasn't like a half
[TS]
01:25:42
◼
►
update this was like a significant
[TS]
01:25:44
◼
►
engineering effort and with with
[TS]
01:25:47
◼
►
significant new things being put into it
[TS]
01:25:49
◼
►
not just like a stock into a motherboard
[TS]
01:25:50
◼
►
and in you know stock parts so give them
[TS]
01:25:53
◼
►
you know full credit where credit is due
[TS]
01:25:55
◼
►
like this is major engineering we're
[TS]
01:25:57
◼
►
going into the Mac and for a long time
[TS]
01:25:59
◼
►
it seemed like that wasn't happening so
[TS]
01:26:00
◼
►
this is this is a nice you know change
[TS]
01:26:03
◼
►
of the narrative and it's good to see
[TS]
01:26:05
◼
►
results what one aspect of this
[TS]
01:26:08
◼
►
integration by the way of like getting
[TS]
01:26:09
◼
►
to the SSD specifically affect great
[TS]
01:26:12
◼
►
performance the encryption addressed for
[TS]
01:26:14
◼
►
free the secure Enclave this is from our
[TS]
01:26:18
◼
►
anonymous source again as president says
[TS]
01:26:22
◼
►
they feel quite confident stating there
[TS]
01:26:23
◼
►
will never be a third party SSD upgrade
[TS]
01:26:25
◼
►
for a t2 equipped a Mac because the
[TS]
01:26:27
◼
►
integration is so tight I mean maybe
[TS]
01:26:29
◼
►
it's tied down to being soldered in or
[TS]
01:26:31
◼
►
maybe it's tight just down to like
[TS]
01:26:33
◼
►
this is not something you can buy off
[TS]
01:26:35
◼
►
the shelf there's tight integration
[TS]
01:26:36
◼
►
between the storage and the controller
[TS]
01:26:38
◼
►
and the encryption and all that other
[TS]
01:26:39
◼
►
stuff going on there that it is a very
[TS]
01:26:42
◼
►
custom solution and that is very much
[TS]
01:26:45
◼
►
like iOS devices where no one considers
[TS]
01:26:48
◼
►
you know upgrading the storage you buy a
[TS]
01:26:50
◼
►
64 gig phone you're like oh I have to
[TS]
01:26:52
◼
►
mark it upgrade it to 128 no you won't
[TS]
01:26:53
◼
►
like because it's so integrated into
[TS]
01:26:55
◼
►
like everything inside iPhone is from
[TS]
01:26:58
◼
►
has from day one been so tied up with
[TS]
01:27:00
◼
►
the whole security environment of phones
[TS]
01:27:02
◼
►
and the t2 brings the Mac closer to that
[TS]
01:27:06
◼
►
ideal in good ways and bad we haven't
[TS]
01:27:07
◼
►
gotten to the secure boot stuff yet but
[TS]
01:27:09
◼
►
like bringing closer to the ideal of a
[TS]
01:27:11
◼
►
phone of being more resilient to
[TS]
01:27:15
◼
►
Hardware attacks like this is the old
[TS]
01:27:16
◼
►
adage in the world of desktop and even
[TS]
01:27:19
◼
►
laptop computers is physical access
[TS]
01:27:20
◼
►
trumps all security even server's
[TS]
01:27:22
◼
►
physical access trumps all security if
[TS]
01:27:23
◼
►
you are physically there with the
[TS]
01:27:25
◼
►
hardware it doesn't really matter what
[TS]
01:27:26
◼
►
you've done security wise because if
[TS]
01:27:28
◼
►
you're physically there there are so
[TS]
01:27:29
◼
►
many things that you can do to to own
[TS]
01:27:32
◼
►
that machine right with phones the whole
[TS]
01:27:36
◼
►
idea has been to make them resilient to
[TS]
01:27:38
◼
►
that old adage does physical access
[TS]
01:27:40
◼
►
Trump's security here you go here's my
[TS]
01:27:41
◼
►
phone if Apple has done a good job it
[TS]
01:27:43
◼
►
should be really hard for you to get
[TS]
01:27:44
◼
►
anything out of it like anything at all
[TS]
01:27:46
◼
►
aside from you maybe like freezing the
[TS]
01:27:49
◼
►
thing liquid nitrogen and extracting the
[TS]
01:27:50
◼
►
data from RAM but even then it might be
[TS]
01:27:52
◼
►
encrypted like you know so anyway the t2
[TS]
01:27:55
◼
►
and the associated secure boot machine
[TS]
01:27:57
◼
►
you're insecure and clad and all that
[TS]
01:27:58
◼
►
stuff are an attempt to bring the Mac
[TS]
01:28:01
◼
►
more into that direction for for good
[TS]
01:28:04
◼
►
and bad mostly good in terms of security
[TS]
01:28:07
◼
►
but bad in terms of us as computer
[TS]
01:28:12
◼
►
enthusiasts who occasionally screw up on
[TS]
01:28:13
◼
►
their our computers have gotten used to
[TS]
01:28:16
◼
►
the idea that you know physical access
[TS]
01:28:18
◼
►
Trump's all security is good for us when
[TS]
01:28:20
◼
►
we screw up when we mess up our own
[TS]
01:28:22
◼
►
computers say well it's all messed up
[TS]
01:28:24
◼
►
but because I'm physically here in front
[TS]
01:28:25
◼
►
of the computer I'm gonna plug in this
[TS]
01:28:27
◼
►
other driving boot from it or you know
[TS]
01:28:29
◼
►
I'm gonna go in Target disc mode and
[TS]
01:28:30
◼
►
just pull the data off or whatever like
[TS]
01:28:32
◼
►
you're even though if hosed my OS
[TS]
01:28:33
◼
►
install by messing with the boot loader
[TS]
01:28:35
◼
►
or some girl like there's always
[TS]
01:28:35
◼
►
something we can do to save ourselves
[TS]
01:28:37
◼
►
not so much with an iPhone and maybe not
[TS]
01:28:41
◼
►
so much with one of these iMac pros
[TS]
01:28:43
◼
►
either depending on how you have
[TS]
01:28:44
◼
►
configured yeah and this was one of the
[TS]
01:28:46
◼
►
reasons why like I would strongly advise
[TS]
01:28:49
◼
►
similar to the RAM argument like don't
[TS]
01:28:52
◼
►
assume you're gonna be able to upgrade
[TS]
01:28:53
◼
►
these later you know he said like that
[TS]
01:28:55
◼
►
we know we heard from their anonymous
[TS]
01:28:56
◼
►
tip they don't they don't think that
[TS]
01:28:57
◼
►
it's likely that we're gonna have
[TS]
01:28:59
◼
►
upgradable SSDs from third parties I
[TS]
01:29:02
◼
►
didn't ask this during the call so I
[TS]
01:29:04
◼
►
don't I haven't I don't have any kind of
[TS]
01:29:05
◼
►
official statement on this but I would I
[TS]
01:29:08
◼
►
would guess the same thing it seems very
[TS]
01:29:10
◼
►
likely that's gonna be the case that it
[TS]
01:29:12
◼
►
I don't think you're gonna see a third
[TS]
01:29:14
◼
►
party t2 SSD modules and you know as we
[TS]
01:29:18
◼
►
briefly discussed last week I don't
[TS]
01:29:20
◼
►
think that's that different from how it
[TS]
01:29:21
◼
►
is now like though the last few
[TS]
01:29:23
◼
►
generations of Mac's that we've had you
[TS]
01:29:26
◼
►
haven't had third-party SSD modules
[TS]
01:29:29
◼
►
usually at all or if they do come they
[TS]
01:29:31
◼
►
come like years after the machine is
[TS]
01:29:33
◼
►
launched and they're usually very
[TS]
01:29:35
◼
►
expensive because they're like custom
[TS]
01:29:37
◼
►
stuff from OWCA or something like that
[TS]
01:29:38
◼
►
so like if you can at all
[TS]
01:29:41
◼
►
order your computer with the disk base
[TS]
01:29:43
◼
►
you need up front do it and and
[TS]
01:29:45
◼
►
otherwise consider external expansion
[TS]
01:29:47
◼
►
because internal upgrades down the road
[TS]
01:29:50
◼
►
are just getting less and less likely to
[TS]
01:29:52
◼
►
be possible or affordable so the secure
[TS]
01:29:55
◼
►
boot stuff cable did a bunch of tweets
[TS]
01:29:57
◼
►
about it because he got one too right do
[TS]
01:29:59
◼
►
you know that he's in the developer who
[TS]
01:30:00
◼
►
got a review unit oh yeah that's right
[TS]
01:30:02
◼
►
he didn't just get a call he actually
[TS]
01:30:03
◼
►
kind of computer which is cool so he did
[TS]
01:30:05
◼
►
a bunch of tweets about it one of them
[TS]
01:30:06
◼
►
was a screenshot of a new I guess it's
[TS]
01:30:09
◼
►
an app called startup security utility
[TS]
01:30:12
◼
►
and it's where you can enable and
[TS]
01:30:14
◼
►
disable the firmware password but it
[TS]
01:30:15
◼
►
also has two little sets of radio
[TS]
01:30:17
◼
►
buttons one called secure boot and the
[TS]
01:30:19
◼
►
options are full security which I don't
[TS]
01:30:22
◼
►
know what the defaults are but the full
[TS]
01:30:23
◼
►
security ensures that only the latest
[TS]
01:30:25
◼
►
and most secure software can be run and
[TS]
01:30:27
◼
►
this mode requires a network connection
[TS]
01:30:28
◼
►
that software installation time I'm a
[TS]
01:30:30
◼
►
little bit confused about the details of
[TS]
01:30:32
◼
►
that because ensures that only the
[TS]
01:30:34
◼
►
latest and most secure software or does
[TS]
01:30:35
◼
►
that mean like if it's not the latest
[TS]
01:30:36
◼
►
software it won't boot it but it will
[TS]
01:30:37
◼
►
force you to do an update before leaving
[TS]
01:30:39
◼
►
boot I don't know anyway medium is a
[TS]
01:30:41
◼
►
carry requires verifiable software out
[TS]
01:30:43
◼
►
of boot but not the latest software so
[TS]
01:30:45
◼
►
you can just keep using your old OS and
[TS]
01:30:46
◼
►
no security does not enforce any
[TS]
01:30:49
◼
►
requirement so all of our max now fall
[TS]
01:30:51
◼
►
under the category as far as secure boot
[TS]
01:30:53
◼
►
is concerned of no security like if the
[TS]
01:30:58
◼
►
there's an interesting name for what
[TS]
01:30:59
◼
►
Apple thinks of this thing if you plug
[TS]
01:31:01
◼
►
in a drive that has an OS that can boot
[TS]
01:31:03
◼
►
your machine it will boot right it
[TS]
01:31:05
◼
►
doesn't do any verification that that
[TS]
01:31:07
◼
►
operating system is like completely
[TS]
01:31:08
◼
►
valid and hasn't been rooted and it sure
[TS]
01:31:10
◼
►
doesn't care if it's the latest version
[TS]
01:31:11
◼
►
you know you can whatever like my 2008
[TS]
01:31:14
◼
►
Mac Pro what did it ship with it a ship
[TS]
01:31:17
◼
►
with Snow Leopard maybe before that
[TS]
01:31:19
◼
►
maybe it shipped with Leopard
[TS]
01:31:20
◼
►
yeah I think it shipped with Leopard
[TS]
01:31:21
◼
►
it'll boot Leopard right now it doesn't
[TS]
01:31:23
◼
►
care that Leopard is ancient like so
[TS]
01:31:25
◼
►
that's what Apple considers no security
[TS]
01:31:26
◼
►
and there's also an option for external
[TS]
01:31:28
◼
►
boot and you can select disallow booting
[TS]
01:31:31
◼
►
from external media which is pretty
[TS]
01:31:33
◼
►
straightforward it's like oh you messed
[TS]
01:31:35
◼
►
up your computer you want to boot from
[TS]
01:31:36
◼
►
another disk to try to save it
[TS]
01:31:38
◼
►
nope not if you have this thing set or
[TS]
01:31:40
◼
►
the option to allow booting from
[TS]
01:31:41
◼
►
external me so a lot of the t2 stuff is
[TS]
01:31:44
◼
►
like you know you can make your iMac
[TS]
01:31:46
◼
►
much more like an iPhone or if you
[TS]
01:31:49
◼
►
change these settings it can just be
[TS]
01:31:51
◼
►
like a normal Mac has always been no
[TS]
01:31:52
◼
►
it's clear that direction Apple wants
[TS]
01:31:54
◼
►
you to go in the top items and all these
[TS]
01:31:56
◼
►
radio buttons are the the most secure
[TS]
01:31:58
◼
►
ones but there's an interesting techno
[TS]
01:32:02
◼
►
to help article that I'll put a link to
[TS]
01:32:04
◼
►
that like what do you do if you have
[TS]
01:32:06
◼
►
your iMac Pro set to the most secure
[TS]
01:32:09
◼
►
settings and you screw it up the
[TS]
01:32:11
◼
►
recovery procedure kind of like the
[TS]
01:32:13
◼
►
recovery procedure when you like screw
[TS]
01:32:15
◼
►
up your phone and you know to sort of go
[TS]
01:32:17
◼
►
into DFU mode or whatever the recovery
[TS]
01:32:18
◼
►
procedure for your iMac pro requires you
[TS]
01:32:21
◼
►
to have another Mac Pro and if you think
[TS]
01:32:27
◼
►
about it's like look you know you always
[TS]
01:32:29
◼
►
need some other thing to plug your thing
[TS]
01:32:31
◼
►
into like when you put your phone in DFU
[TS]
01:32:33
◼
►
mode if you don't literally have any
[TS]
01:32:34
◼
►
other hardware it just sits there
[TS]
01:32:36
◼
►
staring at you it's nothing you need
[TS]
01:32:38
◼
►
some other device to connect to do in
[TS]
01:32:40
◼
►
the case of the Mac Pro what you need to
[TS]
01:32:41
◼
►
connect to do it would be kind of neat
[TS]
01:32:42
◼
►
of you connected to an iPhone to recover
[TS]
01:32:44
◼
►
it like it would download from the
[TS]
01:32:45
◼
►
internet the OS update and funnel it
[TS]
01:32:47
◼
►
through but anyway this is the brave new
[TS]
01:32:49
◼
►
world security the whole point of all
[TS]
01:32:51
◼
►
the secure boot software so that your
[TS]
01:32:54
◼
►
computer could verify that it is running
[TS]
01:32:56
◼
►
like you know clean software software
[TS]
01:33:00
◼
►
the you know this sort of chain of trust
[TS]
01:33:02
◼
►
that each thing in the chain verifies
[TS]
01:33:03
◼
►
the next thing what was it at cable had
[TS]
01:33:05
◼
►
a good tweet about it
[TS]
01:33:07
◼
►
the new chip means that storage
[TS]
01:33:09
◼
►
encryption keys pass from the secure
[TS]
01:33:10
◼
►
Enclave to the
[TS]
01:33:12
◼
►
our encryption engine unship yukine
[TS]
01:33:13
◼
►
never leaves the chip and allows the
[TS]
01:33:15
◼
►
hardware verification of the OS the
[TS]
01:33:16
◼
►
kernel the bootloader firmware etc and
[TS]
01:33:18
◼
►
each each component in turn verifies the
[TS]
01:33:21
◼
►
neck so it's a chain of trust starting
[TS]
01:33:23
◼
►
with the secure Enclave essentially so
[TS]
01:33:25
◼
►
that each thing each thing that runs
[TS]
01:33:29
◼
►
next knows that it is being kicked off
[TS]
01:33:31
◼
►
from something that is secure and it's
[TS]
01:33:33
◼
►
the way the phone security works and
[TS]
01:33:34
◼
►
it's the way this security works and
[TS]
01:33:35
◼
►
it's you know it's not like it's
[TS]
01:33:37
◼
►
foolproof
[TS]
01:33:38
◼
►
like any security thing if there's the
[TS]
01:33:39
◼
►
flaw it can be exploited to get in
[TS]
01:33:41
◼
►
that's how jailbreak Savoy's work like
[TS]
01:33:43
◼
►
you know it's not impenetrable but it is
[TS]
01:33:45
◼
►
a far cry from the world of all the
[TS]
01:33:46
◼
►
Mac's that we're sitting in front of now
[TS]
01:33:48
◼
►
which is like la dee da ba boot whatever
[TS]
01:33:50
◼
►
the heck you give them they have no idea
[TS]
01:33:51
◼
►
if your operating system has been you
[TS]
01:33:53
◼
►
know root kitted or whatever they have
[TS]
01:33:56
◼
►
no idea how new it is when they're
[TS]
01:33:58
◼
►
booting and this iMac changes all that I
[TS]
01:34:01
◼
►
wonder a little bit like you know one of
[TS]
01:34:04
◼
►
the problems that I have with High
[TS]
01:34:05
◼
►
Sierra is that it's it's pretty buggy
[TS]
01:34:07
◼
►
still but yet Apple is really pushing it
[TS]
01:34:09
◼
►
heavily through like the auto-update
[TS]
01:34:10
◼
►
mechanism and stuff like that the the
[TS]
01:34:13
◼
►
idea that like you know to have the the
[TS]
01:34:15
◼
►
best security you should be running the
[TS]
01:34:17
◼
►
latest OS is often true but not always
[TS]
01:34:20
◼
►
true and sometimes we're running the
[TS]
01:34:22
◼
►
latest OS has other downsides like
[TS]
01:34:24
◼
►
certain things that are that are still
[TS]
01:34:26
◼
►
broken or two different or that break
[TS]
01:34:28
◼
►
your workflow like you know dropping
[TS]
01:34:29
◼
►
support for some old app that you use
[TS]
01:34:30
◼
►
something like that I wonder like how
[TS]
01:34:32
◼
►
this mechanism will be useful in
[TS]
01:34:34
◼
►
practice if you want to still use the
[TS]
01:34:37
◼
►
old OS for a while because the new one
[TS]
01:34:39
◼
►
isn't good enough yet or doesn't support
[TS]
01:34:40
◼
►
the things you need to support yet is
[TS]
01:34:42
◼
►
this going to force you to upgrade
[TS]
01:34:43
◼
►
unless you turn down your security to
[TS]
01:34:45
◼
►
the medium level I guess yeah you have
[TS]
01:34:47
◼
►
to change down to medium security which
[TS]
01:34:49
◼
►
you know it's like they're loaded terms
[TS]
01:34:50
◼
►
full versus medium but for exactly the
[TS]
01:34:52
◼
►
reasons you stated it's great that they
[TS]
01:34:54
◼
►
give you these options I think you don't
[TS]
01:34:55
◼
►
have to go to no security unlike for
[TS]
01:34:57
◼
►
example what is it
[TS]
01:34:59
◼
►
was the thing on the Mac called the ice
[TS]
01:35:02
◼
►
the thing that protects all your like
[TS]
01:35:04
◼
►
system files system integrity protection
[TS]
01:35:06
◼
►
s IP yeah there we go sip that you could
[TS]
01:35:10
◼
►
if you need that on or off and maybe
[TS]
01:35:12
◼
►
there's some develop remote that's kind
[TS]
01:35:14
◼
►
of in between you there but very often
[TS]
01:35:15
◼
►
it's like look to use this fancy piece
[TS]
01:35:19
◼
►
of software you have to disable system
[TS]
01:35:22
◼
►
integrity protection and even I who am
[TS]
01:35:23
◼
►
willing to hack there man
[TS]
01:35:25
◼
►
a little bit almost like ma'am really
[TS]
01:35:27
◼
►
makes me rethink whether I want a
[TS]
01:35:29
◼
►
completely disabled system integrity
[TS]
01:35:30
◼
►
Riggins I like the protection the
[TS]
01:35:32
◼
►
additional protection and it provides
[TS]
01:35:35
◼
►
additionally protection from myself
[TS]
01:35:37
◼
►
screwing up my own computer by modifying
[TS]
01:35:39
◼
►
system files which I you know I've done
[TS]
01:35:41
◼
►
in the past right so it makes me think
[TS]
01:35:43
◼
►
twice about doing having medium security
[TS]
01:35:45
◼
►
where it requires verifiable software at
[TS]
01:35:47
◼
►
a boot meaning that it verifies that
[TS]
01:35:49
◼
►
like this is these are legit copies of
[TS]
01:35:51
◼
►
everything the bootloader the kernel all
[TS]
01:35:53
◼
►
you know everything else but does not
[TS]
01:35:55
◼
►
require you to have the latest software
[TS]
01:35:56
◼
►
that's the mode that I think is most
[TS]
01:35:59
◼
►
appealing maybe all the time but
[TS]
01:36:01
◼
►
certainly when a new release comes out
[TS]
01:36:02
◼
►
because you like if the Machine
[TS]
01:36:04
◼
►
literally will refuse to boot until it
[TS]
01:36:05
◼
►
updates itself that is a behavior that I
[TS]
01:36:08
◼
►
think Pro customers will not appreciate
[TS]
01:36:11
◼
►
so again I have no idea what the default
[TS]
01:36:13
◼
►
is but remember you know if you get one
[TS]
01:36:15
◼
►
of these machines remember to use this
[TS]
01:36:16
◼
►
utility and pick the option that makes
[TS]
01:36:18
◼
►
the most sense for you I mean even if
[TS]
01:36:22
◼
►
only like if it refused to boot until it
[TS]
01:36:23
◼
►
had the latest and it literally had to
[TS]
01:36:25
◼
►
run the software update the High Sierra
[TS]
01:36:26
◼
►
for all you know that is like causing
[TS]
01:36:28
◼
►
the latest version of Adobe Creative
[TS]
01:36:30
◼
►
Suite not to launch right like you know
[TS]
01:36:33
◼
►
if you're Pro machine that you used to
[TS]
01:36:35
◼
►
do work every day you come in one
[TS]
01:36:37
◼
►
morning to try to do work and it's like
[TS]
01:36:38
◼
►
oh I won't even boot until I update
[TS]
01:36:40
◼
►
myself and then after it boots this
[TS]
01:36:43
◼
►
application that you use on this all day
[TS]
01:36:45
◼
►
doesn't launch anymore because it's not
[TS]
01:36:46
◼
►
yet compatible that's not a great
[TS]
01:36:48
◼
►
experience so medium security sounds
[TS]
01:36:52
◼
►
like a good compromise for most people
[TS]
01:36:54
◼
►
and disallow booting from external media
[TS]
01:36:56
◼
►
like are you an environment where a
[TS]
01:36:58
◼
►
physical security is actually that
[TS]
01:37:00
◼
►
important to you or do you want the
[TS]
01:37:01
◼
►
option of saving your own but if you
[TS]
01:37:02
◼
►
screw something up by plugging in an
[TS]
01:37:04
◼
►
external drive I feel like I would leave
[TS]
01:37:05
◼
►
that on allow booting from external
[TS]
01:37:07
◼
►
media but everyone's secured exposure
[TS]
01:37:10
◼
►
and environment is different maybe
[TS]
01:37:11
◼
►
you're working on the next Star Wars
[TS]
01:37:14
◼
►
movie and it's really important that if
[TS]
01:37:16
◼
►
someone breaks into the office they
[TS]
01:37:18
◼
►
would have a really difficult time
[TS]
01:37:20
◼
►
getting your computer to boot from their
[TS]
01:37:22
◼
►
external drive and target disk mode so
[TS]
01:37:24
◼
►
they could copy all your precious files
[TS]
01:37:25
◼
►
off of it
[TS]
01:37:25
◼
►
alright and then a couple other just
[TS]
01:37:28
◼
►
little tidbits that I asked about or a
[TS]
01:37:30
◼
►
little bits of information I've picked
[TS]
01:37:31
◼
►
up since then
[TS]
01:37:32
◼
►
the quick thing the PCI Express layout I
[TS]
01:37:35
◼
►
know this sounds really boring trust me
[TS]
01:37:37
◼
►
there's a reason I'm saying it
[TS]
01:37:38
◼
►
it has the GPU running on 16 lanes it
[TS]
01:37:43
◼
►
has two Thunderbolt controllers running
[TS]
01:37:44
◼
►
on four lanes each so eight total and
[TS]
01:37:46
◼
►
the 10 gig Ethernet port runs on four
[TS]
01:37:48
◼
►
lanes all those directions the CPU
[TS]
01:37:50
◼
►
everything else including the t2 is done
[TS]
01:37:52
◼
►
through the DMI which goes to what used
[TS]
01:37:56
◼
►
to be called the Southbridge I think I
[TS]
01:37:58
◼
►
don't know if Intel still calls it the
[TS]
01:37:59
◼
►
Southbridge anymore it's like the
[TS]
01:38:01
◼
►
controller on the chipset that controls
[TS]
01:38:03
◼
►
like USB and all sorts of other like you
[TS]
01:38:06
◼
►
know lower speed peripherals then like
[TS]
01:38:09
◼
►
the GPU the t2 is the largest bandwidth
[TS]
01:38:14
◼
►
consumer through that bus and the DMI
[TS]
01:38:18
◼
►
bus seems to have approximately the same
[TS]
01:38:20
◼
►
bandwidth as four PCI Express lanes and
[TS]
01:38:23
◼
►
you can see that in the in the
[TS]
01:38:24
◼
►
benchmarks of the SSD that basically the
[TS]
01:38:27
◼
►
that the SSD clearly can run with the
[TS]
01:38:30
◼
►
bandwidth of four PCI Express lanes so
[TS]
01:38:32
◼
►
that that does seem to be pretty good I
[TS]
01:38:34
◼
►
I didn't ask because I got this
[TS]
01:38:36
◼
►
information after the call so I didn't
[TS]
01:38:38
◼
►
ask why the t2 wasn't connected to one
[TS]
01:38:41
◼
►
of the CPU lanes directly because the
[TS]
01:38:43
◼
►
CPU has 48 lanes and by my account only
[TS]
01:38:47
◼
►
28 of them are being used or at least
[TS]
01:38:49
◼
►
only 28 that I can account for but the
[TS]
01:38:51
◼
►
reason I bring this up a lot of people
[TS]
01:38:53
◼
►
look at this machine and they wonder why
[TS]
01:38:56
◼
►
do we have to pay for Zeon's why can't a
[TS]
01:38:58
◼
►
Pullip a cheap Tower that I want that
[TS]
01:39:01
◼
►
has an i7 chip in it or whatever this is
[TS]
01:39:03
◼
►
one of the reasons I said like so the
[TS]
01:39:05
◼
►
the best i7 you can get in say the
[TS]
01:39:08
◼
►
regular iMac has 16 lanes from the CPU
[TS]
01:39:12
◼
►
total this is using 28 of them this
[TS]
01:39:16
◼
►
shows you like if you drop down to one
[TS]
01:39:19
◼
►
of the consumer CPUs you would be
[TS]
01:39:22
◼
►
required to cut throughput or if it's a
[TS]
01:39:25
◼
►
cut possible bandwidth on some of these
[TS]
01:39:27
◼
►
components and maybe you won't notice
[TS]
01:39:29
◼
►
like some people argue well you can cut
[TS]
01:39:31
◼
►
a GPU down to x8 down from x16 and it's
[TS]
01:39:34
◼
►
well yeah maybe it's fine but is it the
[TS]
01:39:36
◼
►
best it can be like yeah it's getting
[TS]
01:39:38
◼
►
late to John's argument like is that the
[TS]
01:39:40
◼
►
best or is it fine so it is very clear
[TS]
01:39:43
◼
►
that like they are using the throughput
[TS]
01:39:46
◼
►
of the Xeon here and one of the reasons
[TS]
01:39:48
◼
►
I was thinking about this was kind of
[TS]
01:39:50
◼
►
trying to do some research on like
[TS]
01:39:52
◼
►
do they have enough free PCI Express
[TS]
01:39:54
◼
►
Lanes coming off the CPU in a in a
[TS]
01:39:58
◼
►
theoretical Mac Pro that they could
[TS]
01:40:00
◼
►
offer multiple card slots while also
[TS]
01:40:03
◼
►
supporting more than one GPU with an x16
[TS]
01:40:07
◼
►
connectivity Lane and the answer appears
[TS]
01:40:10
◼
►
to be yes it appears to be they can
[TS]
01:40:12
◼
►
probably offer two x16 GPUs and still
[TS]
01:40:17
◼
►
have enough lanes for other stuff but
[TS]
01:40:19
◼
►
I'm not like I don't think they would
[TS]
01:40:22
◼
►
also offer additional PCI Express slots
[TS]
01:40:26
◼
►
beyond maybe just those two and all this
[TS]
01:40:30
◼
►
was you know theoretical trying to
[TS]
01:40:31
◼
►
educate myself to make better Mac Pro
[TS]
01:40:33
◼
►
predictions and then finally I asked if
[TS]
01:40:35
◼
►
they're still remember when the when the
[TS]
01:40:37
◼
►
5k iMac first launched at the time
[TS]
01:40:40
◼
►
Thunderbolt 2 was not powerful enough to
[TS]
01:40:44
◼
►
drive a 5k display at 60 Hertz it didn't
[TS]
01:40:47
◼
►
have enough bandwidth to drive a fico
[TS]
01:40:49
◼
►
displays at 60 Hertz and Apple made a
[TS]
01:40:50
◼
►
big deal but even during the
[TS]
01:40:52
◼
►
presentation pointing out they had
[TS]
01:40:53
◼
►
developed their own timing controller or
[TS]
01:40:55
◼
►
t-con and they had embedded that in the
[TS]
01:40:57
◼
►
iMac 2 to help drive the display by
[TS]
01:41:00
◼
►
basically multiplexing two streams
[TS]
01:41:02
◼
►
together I asked if they still do that
[TS]
01:41:04
◼
►
the answer yes so there's because I
[TS]
01:41:07
◼
►
figured like you know the now things are
[TS]
01:41:08
◼
►
faster maybe they wouldn't need that
[TS]
01:41:10
◼
►
anymore but no they still do it so
[TS]
01:41:12
◼
►
that's useful to somebody maybe and then
[TS]
01:41:16
◼
►
finally I asked if the Apple Care
[TS]
01:41:19
◼
►
pricing is a mistake because because
[TS]
01:41:23
◼
►
whether you so that you know one of the
[TS]
01:41:25
◼
►
little flukes about Apple Care pricing
[TS]
01:41:28
◼
►
is that book keeps flat pricing for a
[TS]
01:41:30
◼
►
product family so if you look at like a
[TS]
01:41:31
◼
►
MacBook Pro the price of Apple care for
[TS]
01:41:35
◼
►
a two thousand dollar configuration of
[TS]
01:41:38
◼
►
the 15-inch MacBook Pro that's the same
[TS]
01:41:40
◼
►
price whether you get the base model or
[TS]
01:41:42
◼
►
whether you spec up all the specs and it
[TS]
01:41:45
◼
►
cost like $5,000 Apple care stays the
[TS]
01:41:48
◼
►
same price because it's just the price
[TS]
01:41:49
◼
►
that of what it is for MacBook Pro the
[TS]
01:41:53
◼
►
iMac pro is classified as an iMac for
[TS]
01:41:57
◼
►
applicator purposes and so whether you
[TS]
01:42:00
◼
►
spend literally $1300 or $13,000
[TS]
01:42:06
◼
►
AppleCare is the same price of a hundred
[TS]
01:42:09
◼
►
and sixty nine dollars and when I when I
[TS]
01:42:12
◼
►
ordered this like it you know it shows
[TS]
01:42:13
◼
►
you like on the second page it shows
[TS]
01:42:15
◼
►
like the order screen of like you do you
[TS]
01:42:16
◼
►
want to add the applicator your I
[TS]
01:42:17
◼
►
thought it was a mistake I'm like
[TS]
01:42:19
◼
►
there's no way that like a ten thousand
[TS]
01:42:21
◼
►
dollar configuration of this computer
[TS]
01:42:23
◼
►
that Apple care is under $200 there's no
[TS]
01:42:26
◼
►
way but it turns out that is not a
[TS]
01:42:29
◼
►
mistake
[TS]
01:42:29
◼
►
that's just what it costs so this is one
[TS]
01:42:32
◼
►
of those things I I say like I buy
[TS]
01:42:34
◼
►
applique selectively based on the
[TS]
01:42:36
◼
►
economics involved in each decision I
[TS]
01:42:38
◼
►
would definitely recommend Bucky iMac
[TS]
01:42:41
◼
►
bro just because you know hey these are
[TS]
01:42:44
◼
►
really expensive parts if you ever need
[TS]
01:42:45
◼
►
to get them serviced you know I would
[TS]
01:42:47
◼
►
assume that that servicing this is going
[TS]
01:42:49
◼
►
to cost more simply because the
[TS]
01:42:50
◼
►
components are more advanced and higher
[TS]
01:42:52
◼
►
higher and and will cost more and be
[TS]
01:42:54
◼
►
that is such a cheap price for Apple
[TS]
01:42:57
◼
►
care relative to the cost of the machine
[TS]
01:42:59
◼
►
that it seems like an exceptionally good
[TS]
01:43:01
◼
►
deal in this case one thing about the
[TS]
01:43:03
◼
►
PCI Express Lanes back in the
[TS]
01:43:06
◼
►
cheesegrater days maybe all the cheese I
[TS]
01:43:09
◼
►
think they they had like one good slot
[TS]
01:43:11
◼
►
for your good card and then one slot
[TS]
01:43:14
◼
►
with like half the number of lanes but
[TS]
01:43:16
◼
►
for the purposes of in those days put
[TS]
01:43:20
◼
►
the purposes of having like a crossfire
[TS]
01:43:21
◼
►
duel GPUs for games and stuff like that
[TS]
01:43:24
◼
►
most games could get by with eight lanes
[TS]
01:43:26
◼
►
instead of sixteen so you'd put one card
[TS]
01:43:28
◼
►
in the sixteen one card in the eight but
[TS]
01:43:29
◼
►
just run them the same speed and they
[TS]
01:43:31
◼
►
would you know work or just having two
[TS]
01:43:34
◼
►
cards to have like a larger number of
[TS]
01:43:35
◼
►
monitors back before you could drive ten
[TS]
01:43:37
◼
►
thousand monitors off your laptops it
[TS]
01:43:39
◼
►
was a big deal to have two video cards
[TS]
01:43:41
◼
►
each of which could drive two monitors
[TS]
01:43:42
◼
►
and you get a big setup like that so
[TS]
01:43:44
◼
►
it's conceivable that a Mac Pro could
[TS]
01:43:48
◼
►
have one 16x slot and then a bunch of
[TS]
01:43:51
◼
►
slower slots somewhat you'd still put
[TS]
01:43:53
◼
►
cards in especially if you just want to
[TS]
01:43:55
◼
►
expand the number of monitors of you who
[TS]
01:43:57
◼
►
knows maybe you're making some weird
[TS]
01:43:58
◼
►
simulation thing that needs 15 monitors
[TS]
01:43:59
◼
►
right if you have enough slots it
[TS]
01:44:02
◼
►
doesn't matter that they're not all 16
[TS]
01:44:04
◼
►
lanes you just need enough to drive a
[TS]
01:44:05
◼
►
monitor right so there's a lot of
[TS]
01:44:08
◼
►
flexibility I continue to think that
[TS]
01:44:10
◼
►
card slots won't be what the Mac Pro is
[TS]
01:44:12
◼
►
about but who knows like you just need a
[TS]
01:44:13
◼
►
couple of slots to make it so much
[TS]
01:44:15
◼
►
better than zero slots right and and I
[TS]
01:44:18
◼
►
would be perfectly happy if there was
[TS]
01:44:19
◼
►
only one
[TS]
01:44:20
◼
►
sixteen X slot in there and then just
[TS]
01:44:22
◼
►
you know one or two lesser ones or even
[TS]
01:44:24
◼
►
zero lesser ones because all I really
[TS]
01:44:26
◼
►
care about is the abilities upgrade the
[TS]
01:44:27
◼
►
GPU but other people other people's
[TS]
01:44:29
◼
►
mileage may vary I do wonder about slots
[TS]
01:44:32
◼
►
in the Mac Pro how has Apple
[TS]
01:44:35
◼
►
successfully entirely killed the market
[TS]
01:44:38
◼
►
for any card you can buy to stick in a
[TS]
01:44:40
◼
►
Mac I suppose not because a lot of PC
[TS]
01:44:42
◼
►
cards will still work in there or will
[TS]
01:44:44
◼
►
work and there was some you know minor
[TS]
01:44:45
◼
►
change right but it's not as if there's
[TS]
01:44:48
◼
►
tons and tons of cards being sold to Mac
[TS]
01:44:51
◼
►
users because what would they put them
[TS]
01:44:52
◼
►
in it's been many many years since Apple
[TS]
01:44:54
◼
►
has sold the computer brand new that
[TS]
01:44:56
◼
►
takes expansion cards PCI Express cards
[TS]
01:45:00
◼
►
in them so I have to imagine if you were
[TS]
01:45:03
◼
►
in the market of selling whatever cards
[TS]
01:45:05
◼
►
for whatever they go inside a Mac said
[TS]
01:45:07
◼
►
that's been a difficult market for a
[TS]
01:45:09
◼
►
while alright so you know that's that's
[TS]
01:45:13
◼
►
something to watch for I like it seems
[TS]
01:45:14
◼
►
like there's plenty of lanes to go
[TS]
01:45:15
◼
►
around it gives Apple lots of
[TS]
01:45:16
◼
►
flexibility Apple could certainly use
[TS]
01:45:19
◼
►
them all in the Mac Pro but it would not
[TS]
01:45:21
◼
►
be absolutely shocked
[TS]
01:45:22
◼
►
if it turns out that even in the biggest
[TS]
01:45:24
◼
►
beefiest configuration of Mac Pro that
[TS]
01:45:27
◼
►
was actually still a couple of lanes
[TS]
01:45:28
◼
►
left over for something well and you
[TS]
01:45:30
◼
►
know maybe the e GPU situation now we'll
[TS]
01:45:33
◼
►
keep that market alive for compute cards
[TS]
01:45:37
◼
►
and GPUs like I I don't expect that
[TS]
01:45:39
◼
►
market to come back for things like
[TS]
01:45:40
◼
►
video capture car like that that was
[TS]
01:45:42
◼
►
like one of the some of the big uses of
[TS]
01:45:44
◼
►
PCI cards in the past have been like
[TS]
01:45:46
◼
►
custom high-end video capture cards
[TS]
01:45:48
◼
►
certain raid controllers and stuff like
[TS]
01:45:52
◼
►
that like that's probably not coming
[TS]
01:45:53
◼
►
back or even like putting USB 3 in a
[TS]
01:45:55
◼
►
really old cheese grater stuff like that
[TS]
01:45:57
◼
►
like these tiny little cards that look
[TS]
01:45:59
◼
►
like they're you know embarrassingly
[TS]
01:46:01
◼
►
small like they didn't even thinking of
[TS]
01:46:02
◼
►
a card slot like this there's lots of
[TS]
01:46:05
◼
►
things that you can do in those cards
[TS]
01:46:06
◼
►
don't have to be super Mac specific
[TS]
01:46:08
◼
►
thing and again it lengthen the life of
[TS]
01:46:10
◼
►
your computer by giving an interface
[TS]
01:46:12
◼
►
that it didn't have before whatever even
[TS]
01:46:14
◼
►
like a 10 gig Ethernet card and a Mac
[TS]
01:46:16
◼
►
Pro didn't come with 10 gig Ethernet or
[TS]
01:46:17
◼
►
whatever I would guess that the the only
[TS]
01:46:21
◼
►
likely role of card slots in a new Mac
[TS]
01:46:24
◼
►
Pro is GPUs slash compute cards if they
[TS]
01:46:27
◼
►
do that I'm guessing there's a limit of
[TS]
01:46:28
◼
►
two slots if if for nothing else for
[TS]
01:46:30
◼
►
bandwidth or for just sheer size or
[TS]
01:46:33
◼
►
Apple being Apple not wanted to offer
[TS]
01:46:35
◼
►
you a ton of PCI slots cuz they view
[TS]
01:46:37
◼
►
those as unnecessary slash the past
[TS]
01:46:39
◼
►
slash of burden and all of those I think
[TS]
01:46:41
◼
►
today that that would be a reasonable
[TS]
01:46:42
◼
►
position to take as long as you can
[TS]
01:46:44
◼
►
support GPUs and compute cards I think
[TS]
01:46:47
◼
►
you're okay so Casey are you still with
[TS]
01:46:50
◼
►
us so so now now comes the final my
[TS]
01:46:55
◼
►
final thought on this for this ten
[TS]
01:46:56
◼
►
minute period so you know they call this
[TS]
01:47:00
◼
►
guy Mac Pro and John said we'll never
[TS]
01:47:03
◼
►
buy one I said I would never buy one
[TS]
01:47:05
◼
►
never recall saying like an hour ago but
[TS]
01:47:08
◼
►
but I do I think it's very very clear by
[TS]
01:47:12
◼
►
looking you know look at what this
[TS]
01:47:14
◼
►
machine actually is the only reason
[TS]
01:47:17
◼
►
that's called iMac is because it has a
[TS]
01:47:19
◼
►
closed back in a screen on the front but
[TS]
01:47:21
◼
►
by all accounts this is a Mac Pro like
[TS]
01:47:26
◼
►
the reason we're talking about it so
[TS]
01:47:27
◼
►
much the reason we're so excited the
[TS]
01:47:29
◼
►
reason it's so damn fast is because it's
[TS]
01:47:31
◼
►
a Mac Pro it's in everything but name
[TS]
01:47:34
◼
►
and shape but it isn't like even the
[TS]
01:47:37
◼
►
shape is not that different from what we
[TS]
01:47:38
◼
►
had from 2013 forward one of the reasons
[TS]
01:47:41
◼
►
I'm so happy about this is that we've
[TS]
01:47:43
◼
►
been curling for years for a Mac Pro
[TS]
01:47:46
◼
►
update well they just gave us one this
[TS]
01:47:48
◼
►
is a Mac Pro update and it isn't exactly
[TS]
01:47:51
◼
►
what everybody wants like a lot of
[TS]
01:47:52
◼
►
people still want the you know what a
[TS]
01:47:53
◼
►
what an expandable headless tower will
[TS]
01:47:56
◼
►
offer them and I might be one of these
[TS]
01:47:58
◼
►
two you know the side when it comes out
[TS]
01:48:00
◼
►
but I am just really excited about this
[TS]
01:48:03
◼
►
machine because they gave us a new Mac
[TS]
01:48:05
◼
►
Pro it's a Mac Pro period no matter what
[TS]
01:48:08
◼
►
they call it this is a Mac Pro and
[TS]
01:48:11
◼
►
that's really great I'm really excited
[TS]
01:48:13
◼
►
about that I just cannot wait to be
[TS]
01:48:16
◼
►
using a Mac Pro again even if there's an
[TS]
01:48:18
◼
►
extra letter in front of it see how
[TS]
01:48:20
◼
►
excited you are when you have to bring
[TS]
01:48:22
◼
►
it in for image retention yeah well I'm
[TS]
01:48:25
◼
►
a little worried about service issues
[TS]
01:48:27
◼
►
like like the most prosaic things like
[TS]
01:48:31
◼
►
the the guts of it all work great great
[TS]
01:48:33
◼
►
but it's like the the screen ends up
[TS]
01:48:35
◼
►
being with you know it's the all-in-one
[TS]
01:48:36
◼
►
factor like that if something goes wrong
[TS]
01:48:38
◼
►
with it even if everything else is
[TS]
01:48:39
◼
►
working fine the dull thing has to go in
[TS]
01:48:41
◼
►
so anyway and and it's been brought up
[TS]
01:48:43
◼
►
by a lot of the people and I've been
[TS]
01:48:44
◼
►
thinking about Italy too as I sit here
[TS]
01:48:45
◼
►
in front of my
[TS]
01:48:46
◼
►
nearly ten-year-old maunder that 5k
[TS]
01:48:49
◼
►
screen in iMac is great tying it to like
[TS]
01:48:53
◼
►
it's going to age much more slowly than
[TS]
01:48:54
◼
►
the internals because it's not like the
[TS]
01:48:56
◼
►
5k screen is gonna be cutting edge
[TS]
01:48:57
◼
►
forever say a case readings come out is
[TS]
01:48:59
◼
►
like oh that's stinky 5k screen but that
[TS]
01:49:01
◼
►
5k screaming will be a great screen for
[TS]
01:49:03
◼
►
years and years and years and years like
[TS]
01:49:05
◼
►
you could you could keep somebody it was
[TS]
01:49:08
◼
►
reliable and it kept working you're not
[TS]
01:49:10
◼
►
going to turn your nose up at that
[TS]
01:49:11
◼
►
screen anytime soon
[TS]
01:49:12
◼
►
like there is no second retina
[TS]
01:49:15
◼
►
revolution where we have another 5x
[TS]
01:49:17
◼
►
increase in resolution because there's
[TS]
01:49:19
◼
►
no benefit to that maybe HDR will start
[TS]
01:49:21
◼
►
to make it crappy but if we got all that
[TS]
01:49:23
◼
►
on the desktop have like those real OLED
[TS]
01:49:25
◼
►
black levels aw man that'd be great but
[TS]
01:49:27
◼
►
I don't that doesn't seem like it's
[TS]
01:49:28
◼
►
happening soon wait an HDR but I say
[TS]
01:49:31
◼
►
because I'm sitting in front of a
[TS]
01:49:32
◼
►
ten-year-old monitor here this monitor
[TS]
01:49:33
◼
►
is not retina it's not great the black
[TS]
01:49:36
◼
►
levels on deter atrocious but it still
[TS]
01:49:38
◼
►
looks nice like my qualifier for look
[TS]
01:49:40
◼
►
nice especially with Apple monitors
[TS]
01:49:42
◼
►
color uniformity uh and general
[TS]
01:49:45
◼
►
sharpness goes a long way right the fact
[TS]
01:49:48
◼
►
that this is still like if I make screen
[TS]
01:49:50
◼
►
entirely white I can't tell there's like
[TS]
01:49:52
◼
►
a dark splotch and a life swatch and
[TS]
01:49:53
◼
►
stuff like that no image retention as
[TS]
01:49:55
◼
►
far as I'm able to tell all the pictures
[TS]
01:49:57
◼
►
are still alive looks about as good as
[TS]
01:49:59
◼
►
the day I got it yeah it's small but you
[TS]
01:50:04
◼
►
know if I wasn't me I could have been
[TS]
01:50:06
◼
►
using this monitor but the series of
[TS]
01:50:07
◼
►
Mac's right and it kind of makes me feel
[TS]
01:50:09
◼
►
bad about I have a 27 inch Thunderbolt
[TS]
01:50:13
◼
►
Display up in the attic which granted is
[TS]
01:50:15
◼
►
an external display but because it's
[TS]
01:50:17
◼
►
like a thunderbolt weirdness I don't
[TS]
01:50:18
◼
►
have stuff to plug it into without a
[TS]
01:50:20
◼
►
dongle type adapter but I you know and
[TS]
01:50:22
◼
►
if I could have plugged that into my
[TS]
01:50:23
◼
►
current Mac and it wasn't ten years old
[TS]
01:50:25
◼
►
I would have anyway all this is to say
[TS]
01:50:28
◼
►
that for all of the iMac pros greatness
[TS]
01:50:32
◼
►
all-in-one is still an all-in-one and
[TS]
01:50:33
◼
►
it's great for what you want it to be
[TS]
01:50:35
◼
►
but the all-in-one compromises are still
[TS]
01:50:37
◼
►
there and you have to be aware of them
[TS]
01:50:38
◼
►
and no matter how awesome they make the
[TS]
01:50:39
◼
►
internals nothing changes the stripes of
[TS]
01:50:42
◼
►
and all on being an all-in-one and and
[TS]
01:50:44
◼
►
mostly I think about it because that you
[TS]
01:50:47
◼
►
know maybe I think about it because my
[TS]
01:50:49
◼
►
wife's monitoring or 5k iMac was so much
[TS]
01:50:51
◼
►
better than the thing that I sit in
[TS]
01:50:52
◼
►
front of every day I'm like man I would
[TS]
01:50:54
◼
►
love to use that as
[TS]
01:50:55
◼
►
and I know that it will never happen
[TS]
01:50:57
◼
►
when the when the guts of that 5k iMac
[TS]
01:50:59
◼
►
become old and slow I can't just use it
[TS]
01:51:03
◼
►
as a monitor for another machine which
[TS]
01:51:05
◼
►
you couldn't you couldn't do with one of
[TS]
01:51:07
◼
►
the older non red and IMAX if I recall
[TS]
01:51:09
◼
►
correctly but anyway I'm like what I'm
[TS]
01:51:11
◼
►
saying is I'm looking forward to the pro
[TS]
01:51:12
◼
►
display almost as much as the Mac Pro
[TS]
01:51:15
◼
►
yeah I really am very excited to see
[TS]
01:51:19
◼
►
what that ends up being but honestly
[TS]
01:51:21
◼
►
like if we didn't have anything any hope
[TS]
01:51:25
◼
►
of a Mac Pro coming you know if we
[TS]
01:51:28
◼
►
didn't have that that you know the
[TS]
01:51:29
◼
►
statements for Apple saying they're
[TS]
01:51:31
◼
►
working on one if this was it if this
[TS]
01:51:34
◼
►
was the only thing that was gonna be the
[TS]
01:51:36
◼
►
new Mac Pro that's not bad it would
[TS]
01:51:39
◼
►
still be amazing I would still be very
[TS]
01:51:41
◼
►
excited I would have ordered it if that
[TS]
01:51:43
◼
►
was the case I would have ordered and I
[TS]
01:51:45
◼
►
wouldn't have been too grumpy about
[TS]
01:51:46
◼
►
ordering got my grumpy I would have been
[TS]
01:51:54
◼
►
grumpy by making a Mac Pro but I
[TS]
01:51:57
◼
►
wouldn't have been that grumpy about
[TS]
01:51:58
◼
►
having to order this because I would you
[TS]
01:52:00
◼
►
know like at various times I have to
[TS]
01:52:02
◼
►
actually consider replacing my Mac Pro
[TS]
01:52:04
◼
►
with a 5k when in my darkest times and
[TS]
01:52:06
◼
►
it's clear that the 5k is not like a Mac
[TS]
01:52:09
◼
►
Pro any stretch of the imagination its
[TS]
01:52:10
◼
►
consumer CPUs it's you know like but it
[TS]
01:52:14
◼
►
would be you know at a certain point
[TS]
01:52:15
◼
►
it's a big upgrade so I would mostly be
[TS]
01:52:18
◼
►
complaining about why aren't you gonna
[TS]
01:52:21
◼
►
make a Mac Pro but then when it came to
[TS]
01:52:23
◼
►
like how have fun if you're not gonna
[TS]
01:52:24
◼
►
make a Mac Pro you're not gonna do that
[TS]
01:52:26
◼
►
thing I guess I'll settle for what you
[TS]
01:52:28
◼
►
do get in settling for the iMac Pro is a
[TS]
01:52:31
◼
►
hell of a lot better than selling for a
[TS]
01:52:33
◼
►
5k iMac so come on I mean I admire your
[TS]
01:52:37
◼
►
enthusiasm John I really do but both of
[TS]
01:52:40
◼
►
you would be going bananas maybe not
[TS]
01:52:43
◼
►
Marco after this phone call but up until
[TS]
01:52:45
◼
►
this phone call the two of you would be
[TS]
01:52:47
◼
►
inconsolable about how this is BS
[TS]
01:52:50
◼
►
they're not taking pros seriously I want
[TS]
01:52:53
◼
►
expansion I want to be able to get
[TS]
01:52:55
◼
►
inside it that would be true but it
[TS]
01:52:57
◼
►
would be less about complaining about
[TS]
01:52:58
◼
►
specifically the matter
[TS]
01:52:59
◼
►
the iMac probably more about complaining
[TS]
01:53:01
◼
►
where is the Mac Pro and how are you you
[TS]
01:53:03
◼
►
know all the people you're abandoning
[TS]
01:53:04
◼
►
with with a few Mac Pro I mean the whole
[TS]
01:53:07
◼
►
thing they had the April but they we
[TS]
01:53:08
◼
►
don't have to do that like they they
[TS]
01:53:09
◼
►
change their mind everyone's all happy
[TS]
01:53:11
◼
►
we're just waiting patiently also like a
[TS]
01:53:13
◼
►
lot of a lot of the a lot of those ships
[TS]
01:53:14
◼
►
sail but the 2013 Mac Pro a lot like a
[TS]
01:53:17
◼
►
lot of that was like oh you can't expand
[TS]
01:53:18
◼
►
anymore they kill all the slots there
[TS]
01:53:20
◼
►
they made it really expensive like that
[TS]
01:53:22
◼
►
all happened when in 2013 so like we
[TS]
01:53:24
◼
►
would have considered that like already
[TS]
01:53:25
◼
►
a lost cause yeah and I think that was
[TS]
01:53:28
◼
►
less angry about the 2013 because I
[TS]
01:53:30
◼
►
think I am a lot of other people just
[TS]
01:53:31
◼
►
assumed okay well this is but this is
[TS]
01:53:33
◼
►
the first one this is the first trash
[TS]
01:53:35
◼
►
give him a break like they're gonna you
[TS]
01:53:36
◼
►
know the second and third generation
[TS]
01:53:38
◼
►
trash will surely be great and that was
[TS]
01:53:39
◼
►
that was that was turned out to be a
[TS]
01:53:43
◼
►
mistake but but but that's why we
[TS]
01:53:44
◼
►
weren't like oh I don't like this 2013
[TS]
01:53:46
◼
►
crash can i I didn't buy one I said this
[TS]
01:53:48
◼
►
is not for me I'll wait for the second
[TS]
01:53:50
◼
►
or third gen you know once you couldn't
[TS]
01:53:51
◼
►
hook a retina monitor up dude how long
[TS]
01:53:52
◼
►
did we talk about that it just we made
[TS]
01:53:54
◼
►
assumptions that were not founded that
[TS]
01:53:56
◼
►
computer would be updated I hope Marko
[TS]
01:53:59
◼
►
is not correct about this Mac Pro
[TS]
01:54:01
◼
►
because honestly whatever this Mac Pro
[TS]
01:54:03
◼
►
is if you didn't do not have a 10 year
[TS]
01:54:06
◼
►
old computer like me you'd be wise to
[TS]
01:54:08
◼
►
wait for the second generation this one
[TS]
01:54:10
◼
►
but maybe you wouldn't be because if
[TS]
01:54:12
◼
►
Marco's theory is right and there never
[TS]
01:54:13
◼
►
will be a second generation this new Mac
[TS]
01:54:15
◼
►
Pro it'll be very unwise to wait for it
[TS]
01:54:17
◼
►
and you should just get an iMac Pro now
[TS]
01:54:19
◼
►
and just be happy so I don't know I I
[TS]
01:54:22
◼
►
have no choice I have to get the Mac Pro
[TS]
01:54:24
◼
►
and it comes out it's just it's just
[TS]
01:54:25
◼
►
been too darn long but I worry about it
[TS]
01:54:28
◼
►
being a one-and-done
[TS]
01:54:29
◼
►
computer because that's not what I want
[TS]
01:54:31
◼
►
from it well but I mean at least if it
[TS]
01:54:33
◼
►
is you'll have 10 more years if it
[TS]
01:54:36
◼
►
doesn't have over getting GPUs or some
[TS]
01:54:38
◼
►
other weird thing is gonna be an octagon
[TS]
01:54:41
◼
►
and it'll spin this thing a rotating
[TS]
01:54:46
◼
►
restaurant
[TS]
01:54:48
◼
►
alright thanks to our sponsors this week
[TS]
01:54:51
◼
►
Squarespace Backblaze and aftershocks I
[TS]
01:54:53
◼
►
will see you next week
[TS]
01:54:57
◼
►
now the show is over they didn't even
[TS]
01:55:01
◼
►
mean to begin cuz it was accidental
[TS]
01:55:04
◼
►
oh it was accidental johnny research
[TS]
01:55:10
◼
►
Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it
[TS]
01:55:13
◼
►
was accidentally was accidental you can
[TS]
01:55:19
◼
►
find the show notes at a CAS URL is esta
[TS]
01:55:33
◼
►
that's Casey less ma RC o AR m and T
[TS]
01:55:38
◼
►
Marco Arment SI r AC Syracuse
[TS]
01:55:57
◼
►
so how is it talking to Apple it was
[TS]
01:56:01
◼
►
pretty cool I hear you know all the
[TS]
01:56:03
◼
►
things you said I've been here I just
[TS]
01:56:05
◼
►
didn't have anything to add but that's
[TS]
01:56:07
◼
►
got to be pretty neat oh yeah it was it
[TS]
01:56:11
◼
►
was mostly it was just like you know an
[TS]
01:56:13
◼
►
honor that they decided to take their
[TS]
01:56:15
◼
►
time to talk to me you know like it you
[TS]
01:56:18
◼
►
know I wasn't talking like Tim but I was
[TS]
01:56:20
◼
►
talking to people who matter and Apple
[TS]
01:56:22
◼
►
who have bit busy things that they could
[TS]
01:56:24
◼
►
be doing like you know like these
[TS]
01:56:26
◼
►
schedules and in the middle of this
[TS]
01:56:27
◼
►
launch they have to talk to a lot of
[TS]
01:56:29
◼
►
people and they decided to talk to me
[TS]
01:56:31
◼
►
for like an hour
[TS]
01:56:32
◼
►
did you ask them one year if you unit
[TS]
01:56:34
◼
►
would arrive no I I did not I did not
[TS]
01:56:37
◼
►
presume that I'm getting a review in it
[TS]
01:56:38
◼
►
and I told them right up front cuz they
[TS]
01:56:40
◼
►
asked if I were one I said yes oh said
[TS]
01:56:43
◼
►
no be waiting for my review yeah but
[TS]
01:56:48
◼
►
yeah so it's it's just it's mostly just
[TS]
01:56:50
◼
►
an honor and and the call also just went
[TS]
01:56:52
◼
►
really well like you know it wasn't you
[TS]
01:56:55
◼
►
know if you you might think talking to
[TS]
01:56:58
◼
►
Apple is you know like the way Tim Cook
[TS]
01:57:01
◼
►
is in TV interviews like you know very
[TS]
01:57:02
◼
►
careful reserved a little bit cold maybe
[TS]
01:57:05
◼
►
but no it isn't like that like these are
[TS]
01:57:07
◼
►
just humans who were you know on on the
[TS]
01:57:10
◼
►
call trying to be helpful to you trying
[TS]
01:57:11
◼
►
to be friendly and again like they're
[TS]
01:57:13
◼
►
not gonna like let slip something about
[TS]
01:57:15
◼
►
the next iPhone or anything but you know
[TS]
01:57:18
◼
►
you're still talking to people you're
[TS]
01:57:19
◼
►
not talking like a robot so it's just a
[TS]
01:57:21
◼
►
nice friendly call it sounds to me like
[TS]
01:57:23
◼
►
you got handled by Apple PR oh we're
[TS]
01:57:26
◼
►
definitely gonna have people that people
[TS]
01:57:28
◼
►
you know who say that but yeah look I
[TS]
01:57:31
◼
►
brought a bunch of questions to them
[TS]
01:57:32
◼
►
some of them were a little bit
[TS]
01:57:34
◼
►
challenging or difficult and they you
[TS]
01:57:37
◼
►
know they they took them all in stride
[TS]
01:57:39
◼
►
and told me what they wanted to tell me
[TS]
01:57:41
◼
►
and you know I'm not going into this
[TS]
01:57:43
◼
►
saying that ever that you know because I
[TS]
01:57:45
◼
►
talked to them everything's going to be
[TS]
01:57:46
◼
►
perfect about this computer I don't know
[TS]
01:57:49
◼
►
but so far it seems pretty great and I I
[TS]
01:57:52
◼
►
think I hope that I have been fair in
[TS]
01:57:54
◼
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representing my opinion and my thoughts
[TS]
01:57:57
◼
►
here like I don't want to make it sound
[TS]
01:57:59
◼
►
like now they talk to me I'm going to
[TS]
01:58:02
◼
►
say everything I say only the good
[TS]
01:58:04
◼
►
be brainwashed and everything else it
[TS]
01:58:07
◼
►
just sounds like this is really a really
[TS]
01:58:08
◼
►
good computer and I think most of the
[TS]
01:58:10
◼
►
early reviews bear that out we will see
[TS]
01:58:13
◼
►
what happens once I get one once we get
[TS]
01:58:16
◼
►
one if John ever buys one and over time
[TS]
01:58:19
◼
►
we will see like either any long-term
[TS]
01:58:20
◼
►
problems that develop like reliability
[TS]
01:58:22
◼
►
issues or heat or things like that but
[TS]
01:58:23
◼
►
so far it seems pretty great and from
[TS]
01:58:27
◼
►
what we know so far I don't see any
[TS]
01:58:30
◼
►
those problems on the horizon anymore
[TS]
01:58:32
◼
►
you know I was very concerned about
[TS]
01:58:34
◼
►
thermals before between what they've
[TS]
01:58:37
◼
►
said and what other people have said who
[TS]
01:58:39
◼
►
have seen or used or who have one of
[TS]
01:58:41
◼
►
these computers that doesn't seem to be
[TS]
01:58:43
◼
►
a problem so maybe that's great we'll
[TS]
01:58:46
◼
►
find out I do hope that I'm representing
[TS]
01:58:49
◼
►
these things you know fairly and that
[TS]
01:58:51
◼
►
I'm not you know unreasonably biased
[TS]
01:58:54
◼
►
because they're being friendly towards
[TS]
01:58:55
◼
►
me but I don't think I am III think I'm
[TS]
01:58:57
◼
►
being reasonable here but if I am I know
[TS]
01:58:59
◼
►
you guys will tell me and if not all the
[TS]
01:59:01
◼
►
listeners will oh of course you are I
[TS]
01:59:02
◼
►
mean you can't help but be influenced by
[TS]
01:59:05
◼
►
that but you know as long as you call
[TS]
01:59:07
◼
►
out the fact that you may be influenced
[TS]
01:59:09
◼
►
by it I feel like listeners should be
[TS]
01:59:10
◼
►
able to take that into account you know
[TS]
01:59:12
◼
►
I mean you know the other thing is like
[TS]
01:59:14
◼
►
when I talk to people at Apple I don't
[TS]
01:59:18
◼
►
pull punches and I also I'm not like
[TS]
01:59:22
◼
►
super apologetic or differential or
[TS]
01:59:25
◼
►
anything I just treat them as peers and
[TS]
01:59:28
◼
►
part of that is because I don't have a
[TS]
01:59:31
◼
►
real job and I don't really have a boss
[TS]
01:59:32
◼
►
or anything and so I don't really treat
[TS]
01:59:34
◼
►
anybody like they're my boss and part of
[TS]
01:59:37
◼
►
that is that as I increasingly get into
[TS]
01:59:41
◼
►
my my my mid 30 is soon to be my late
[TS]
01:59:44
◼
►
30s I just don't care anymore about
[TS]
01:59:46
◼
►
anything it's the follow-up to my
[TS]
01:59:54
◼
►
autobiography nobody cares but me but I
[TS]
01:59:57
◼
►
do care
[TS]
01:59:57
◼
►
do care
[TS]
00:00:00
◼
►
I feel like a world is a little
[TS]
00:00:01
◼
►
upside-down did you roll over in your
[TS]
00:00:03
◼
►
Wrangler no I didn't roll over my
[TS]
00:00:05
◼
►
Wrangler we're gonna talk about that
[TS]
00:00:08
◼
►
since you brought it up I guess we can
[TS]
00:00:10
◼
►
just start with follow-up and Quinn
[TS]
00:00:11
◼
►
suddenly in the very first item and
[TS]
00:00:12
◼
►
follow up we have more Wrangler talks
[TS]
00:00:13
◼
►
you have awesome first of all I wanted
[TS]
00:00:16
◼
►
to publicly commend both John and Marco
[TS]
00:00:19
◼
►
for for John make giving Marco the the
[TS]
00:00:23
◼
►
the material with which to make a truly
[TS]
00:00:25
◼
►
hilarious pre-show and I had several
[TS]
00:00:27
◼
►
people very kindly reach out to say oh
[TS]
00:00:29
◼
►
my god John was on fire well oftentimes
[TS]
00:00:32
◼
►
it was John was on fire beating you up
[TS]
00:00:34
◼
►
but at the very least it was something
[TS]
00:00:38
◼
►
like firstly you brought the topic of
[TS]
00:00:41
◼
►
the show and said I have a problem I'm
[TS]
00:00:43
◼
►
thinking about a Wrangler you saying
[TS]
00:00:45
◼
►
convinced me not to get a regular and so
[TS]
00:00:47
◼
►
I was trying to do what you ask
[TS]
00:00:49
◼
►
that's not a problem I have you're
[TS]
00:00:51
◼
►
saying I you know I'm into thinking
[TS]
00:00:54
◼
►
about you bring that but you phrased it
[TS]
00:00:55
◼
►
as like a problem situation like if you
[TS]
00:00:58
◼
►
were really enthusiastic about it sound
[TS]
00:01:00
◼
►
like look I've decided to make a life
[TS]
00:01:01
◼
►
change I have found who I really am now
[TS]
00:01:04
◼
►
and who I really am is a Jeep Wrangler
[TS]
00:01:06
◼
►
person like we would have been
[TS]
00:01:07
◼
►
supportive of you as your friends can i
[TS]
00:01:09
◼
►
if I get a Wrangler if I end up with a
[TS]
00:01:11
◼
►
Wrangler can I have can I try to find a
[TS]
00:01:13
◼
►
license plate that's t o PL ISS no you
[TS]
00:01:17
◼
►
are not you are not allowed to have a
[TS]
00:01:19
◼
►
giant list pun for the rest of your life
[TS]
00:01:21
◼
►
oh come on anyway so we have some
[TS]
00:01:25
◼
►
followup with regard to oh no I got
[TS]
00:01:27
◼
►
distracted me I was trying to complement
[TS]
00:01:29
◼
►
in you too and you've distracted me so
[TS]
00:01:30
◼
►
anyway so yeah Marco did a very good job
[TS]
00:01:32
◼
►
editing down 30 minutes of garbage into
[TS]
00:01:34
◼
►
eight minutes of pure comedy gold that
[TS]
00:01:36
◼
►
was mostly on account of John giving
[TS]
00:01:38
◼
►
Marco the raw material with which to
[TS]
00:01:40
◼
►
carve comedy gold out of it so thank you
[TS]
00:01:42
◼
►
to the two of you even though I am
[TS]
00:01:44
◼
►
slightly annoyed with you now I still
[TS]
00:01:46
◼
►
find that conversational areas but we
[TS]
00:01:48
◼
►
have some follow-up about Wranglers from
[TS]
00:01:50
◼
►
David Crawford who writes in case you
[TS]
00:01:52
◼
►
can tell John that this is the guy with
[TS]
00:01:53
◼
►
the yellow four five eight speciali I
[TS]
00:01:55
◼
►
probably I hope I pronounced that right
[TS]
00:01:57
◼
►
I think I did anyway Quinta Fulvio
[TS]
00:01:59
◼
►
yeah exactly and I can drive anything I
[TS]
00:02:01
◼
►
want but when I run out to the garage to
[TS]
00:02:02
◼
►
grab a car to run around town I jump in
[TS]
00:02:05
◼
►
my jeep wrangler my Jeep is heavily
[TS]
00:02:06
◼
►
modified was not intended as a daily
[TS]
00:02:08
◼
►
driver but I find myself driving it more
[TS]
00:02:09
◼
►
than anything because it's fun and
[TS]
00:02:11
◼
►
nimble around
[TS]
00:02:13
◼
►
any thoughts John I'd buy the fun part
[TS]
00:02:15
◼
►
nimble nimble yeah fair I think nimble
[TS]
00:02:20
◼
►
in this context means it's not a
[TS]
00:02:22
◼
►
terribly long car I believe it was
[TS]
00:02:24
◼
►
affordable spends a lot of time on two
[TS]
00:02:26
◼
►
wheels it's very go here we go that's
[TS]
00:02:32
◼
►
the thing though specifically for you
[TS]
00:02:35
◼
►
like it it strikes me well first of all
[TS]
00:02:38
◼
►
for this choice of cars if you've got a
[TS]
00:02:40
◼
►
Ferrari a fancy Ferrari or a Jeep
[TS]
00:02:42
◼
►
neither one of those is really a great
[TS]
00:02:44
◼
►
car to you know drive around as a
[TS]
00:02:47
◼
►
regular car because you're not gonna
[TS]
00:02:48
◼
►
take your Ferrari to try to like go
[TS]
00:02:50
◼
►
grocery shopping and scrape the front
[TS]
00:02:53
◼
►
end trying to go into a gas station or
[TS]
00:02:54
◼
►
whatever and a jeep like like fun cars
[TS]
00:02:58
◼
►
like that whether they're fun sporty
[TS]
00:02:59
◼
►
cars are fun like off-roading cars
[TS]
00:03:01
◼
►
they're not really fun to go on like a
[TS]
00:03:03
◼
►
45 minute highway trip in a Jeep
[TS]
00:03:05
◼
►
Wrangler or a Ferrari like that's not
[TS]
00:03:06
◼
►
what they're about so it seems to me
[TS]
00:03:09
◼
►
that you're still as far as we can tell
[TS]
00:03:11
◼
►
looking for like a they call a daily
[TS]
00:03:13
◼
►
driver like a car that you can use every
[TS]
00:03:15
◼
►
day and yeah you can use a jeep every
[TS]
00:03:16
◼
►
day and you could use a Ferrari everyday
[TS]
00:03:18
◼
►
but they're both there's a lot of big
[TS]
00:03:21
◼
►
compromises with both of those things
[TS]
00:03:23
◼
►
and that's far you've been looking at
[TS]
00:03:25
◼
►
cars that are more like regular cars
[TS]
00:03:27
◼
►
that also happen to have a fun side to
[TS]
00:03:29
◼
►
them right I don't think either one of
[TS]
00:03:32
◼
►
these cars is a good choice for you so
[TS]
00:03:34
◼
►
forget about the four or five eight I
[TS]
00:03:35
◼
►
know that was the second one on your
[TS]
00:03:36
◼
►
list but yes totally within my budget I
[TS]
00:03:41
◼
►
don't know I just I thought it was funny
[TS]
00:03:43
◼
►
nevertheless that here's someone that
[TS]
00:03:45
◼
►
could really drive anything and they
[TS]
00:03:47
◼
►
chose they choose to have their Jeep
[TS]
00:03:49
◼
►
that's why I suggested a go-kart
[TS]
00:03:50
◼
►
remember I you think I'm making the joke
[TS]
00:03:52
◼
►
I don't know if that was cut or whatever
[TS]
00:03:53
◼
►
I suggested a go-kart because like it's
[TS]
00:03:55
◼
►
it's like a it's like a fun toy to have
[TS]
00:03:57
◼
►
like you can you know cool around on
[TS]
00:03:59
◼
►
that and you know it's it's a vehicle
[TS]
00:04:01
◼
►
but you're not gonna bring on a roads
[TS]
00:04:03
◼
►
but it's just fun right it's way more
[TS]
00:04:04
◼
►
fun than you would think these you're so
[TS]
00:04:05
◼
►
low to the ground anyone doesn't go fast
[TS]
00:04:07
◼
►
it feels fast and it corners and you
[TS]
00:04:09
◼
►
know you're gonna go karts right they're
[TS]
00:04:10
◼
►
fun and it gets that out of your system
[TS]
00:04:12
◼
►
so you could just have a regular car
[TS]
00:04:13
◼
►
there like works and keeps out the
[TS]
00:04:14
◼
►
weather and doesn't roll over and it's
[TS]
00:04:17
◼
►
safe and you know all that good stuff
[TS]
00:04:19
◼
►
fair enough all right we got to get out
[TS]
00:04:21
◼
►
a neutral I'm sorry let's talk about the
[TS]
00:04:22
◼
►
iMac Pro since we're not going to do any
[TS]
00:04:24
◼
►
of that today we can dive right in
[TS]
00:04:26
◼
►
say that the iMac program upgrades and
[TS]
00:04:29
◼
►
this is Rene Richie I guess saying you
[TS]
00:04:31
◼
►
can't upgrade the RAM yourself but you
[TS]
00:04:33
◼
►
can take it to an Apple store or
[TS]
00:04:34
◼
►
certified service center and they can
[TS]
00:04:37
◼
►
upgrade for you what now
[TS]
00:04:39
◼
►
that's a Bret from Rene Richey so I'm
[TS]
00:04:42
◼
►
assuming it's true rings right from
[TS]
00:04:44
◼
►
Apple's mouth we you know we said that
[TS]
00:04:46
◼
►
nothing is upgradable meaning like if
[TS]
00:04:48
◼
►
you were to open it up yourself you're
[TS]
00:04:50
◼
►
voiding your warranty or whatever blah
[TS]
00:04:51
◼
►
blah blah but apparently you can bring
[TS]
00:04:53
◼
►
it to Apple they're all great so as far
[TS]
00:04:54
◼
►
as I'm concerned I mean as Marco pointed
[TS]
00:04:56
◼
►
out I think and tweet replies this like
[TS]
00:04:58
◼
►
then you have to pay apples prices for
[TS]
00:05:00
◼
►
RAM which is ridiculous but at the very
[TS]
00:05:04
◼
►
least it shows Apple not entirely
[TS]
00:05:06
◼
►
closing the door wondering that also
[TS]
00:05:07
◼
►
applies to like SSDs could you take it
[TS]
00:05:08
◼
►
to Apple and say please take out this
[TS]
00:05:11
◼
►
SSD and I will pay your crazy price too
[TS]
00:05:13
◼
►
but have twice as big an SSD and you'll
[TS]
00:05:16
◼
►
put it in there for me but I mean I
[TS]
00:05:18
◼
►
still think the best bet is to just buy
[TS]
00:05:20
◼
►
it how you want to configure it because
[TS]
00:05:21
◼
►
all these upgrade options seem like
[TS]
00:05:23
◼
►
they're expensive but you know this is I
[TS]
00:05:26
◼
►
guess this is official from Apple if
[TS]
00:05:28
◼
►
they're gonna do the upgrade then at
[TS]
00:05:30
◼
►
least that's one option available to you
[TS]
00:05:31
◼
►
if you don't mind the cost yeah and
[TS]
00:05:34
◼
►
there are also third-party Apple
[TS]
00:05:35
◼
►
authorized service centers so maybe you
[TS]
00:05:38
◼
►
could get them to do it for you with
[TS]
00:05:40
◼
►
third-party Ram that would be cheaper
[TS]
00:05:42
◼
►
but that's a big maybe and it probably
[TS]
00:05:45
◼
►
wouldn't be that much cheaper relatively
[TS]
00:05:47
◼
►
speaking and then if you ever had to
[TS]
00:05:48
◼
►
send it back into Apple you know they're
[TS]
00:05:50
◼
►
gonna see that and they're gonna you
[TS]
00:05:52
◼
►
know make you remove it or have a
[TS]
00:05:54
◼
►
problem with it or something before
[TS]
00:05:55
◼
►
they'd service the machine or something
[TS]
00:05:56
◼
►
so like it's it's like having all the
[TS]
00:06:00
◼
►
downside to having third-party RAM in
[TS]
00:06:02
◼
►
your Mac that that have been forever of
[TS]
00:06:03
◼
►
you know trouble with Apple servers
[TS]
00:06:05
◼
►
sometimes and everything else you know
[TS]
00:06:06
◼
►
everyone's gonna blame that for any
[TS]
00:06:08
◼
►
problems you have but with the added
[TS]
00:06:10
◼
►
complexity that you really can't get to
[TS]
00:06:12
◼
►
it yourself to swap it in and out and it
[TS]
00:06:14
◼
►
probably won't be that much cheaper so I
[TS]
00:06:16
◼
►
feel like this there's basically two
[TS]
00:06:18
◼
►
reasons why most people want upgradeable
[TS]
00:06:22
◼
►
RAM in a Mac reason number one which is
[TS]
00:06:24
◼
►
probably by far the most common is to
[TS]
00:06:27
◼
►
save money from apples somewhat inflated
[TS]
00:06:30
◼
►
costs and get cheaper RAM from somebody
[TS]
00:06:32
◼
►
else reason number two is to buy it with
[TS]
00:06:36
◼
►
one amount of RAM that you can like
[TS]
00:06:37
◼
►
afford today
[TS]
00:06:38
◼
►
and then in a few years increase the
[TS]
00:06:40
◼
►
amount of RAM to extend its useful life
[TS]
00:06:42
◼
►
time and by that point you will probably
[TS]
00:06:45
◼
►
have more money and also the RAM will be
[TS]
00:06:46
◼
►
cheaper this seems to maybe solve the
[TS]
00:06:50
◼
►
second one but it almost certainly won't
[TS]
00:06:54
◼
►
solve the first one and I feel like the
[TS]
00:06:56
◼
►
first one is probably the more common
[TS]
00:06:58
◼
►
case among people who would be following
[TS]
00:07:00
◼
►
this kind of news and making this kind
[TS]
00:07:01
◼
►
of comment so while it is nice that the
[TS]
00:07:04
◼
►
RAM is upgradable by somebody the fact
[TS]
00:07:06
◼
►
that it's not really upgradable by you
[TS]
00:07:08
◼
►
is it might as well be not upgradable
[TS]
00:07:12
◼
►
like I I'm with John I would strongly
[TS]
00:07:14
◼
►
suggest that you order it with the
[TS]
00:07:16
◼
►
amount of RAM that you will want for the
[TS]
00:07:17
◼
►
long haul if at all possible I might pro
[TS]
00:07:20
◼
►
input devices I I thought we had talked
[TS]
00:07:22
◼
►
about this on the show very briefly but
[TS]
00:07:24
◼
►
you can get both the blacked-out Magic
[TS]
00:07:28
◼
►
Mouse and a blacked out trackpad and
[TS]
00:07:29
◼
►
something like 150 bucks for both or
[TS]
00:07:31
◼
►
there abouts I don't remember exactly
[TS]
00:07:33
◼
►
how much you can yeah they can figure it
[TS]
00:07:34
◼
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it wasn't up when we were recording the
[TS]
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show but we speculated like Oh what do
[TS]
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◼
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you have to buy to IMAX to get both of
[TS]
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◼
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them because they people gave the
[TS]
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reviewer is both input devices which
[TS]
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◼
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seemed weird if that's not a thing that
[TS]
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◼
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you can buy but it totally is a thing
[TS]
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◼
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you can buy yeah and I personally don't
[TS]
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◼
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have any particular interest in the
[TS]
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◼
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trackpad I know it works for a lot of
[TS]
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◼
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people it's not really my cup of tea but
[TS]
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◼
►
if I were to order an iMac Pro which
[TS]
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◼
►
sitting here now I am not currently
[TS]
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◼
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planning on there is zero chance that I
[TS]
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◼
►
would not get both devices because even
[TS]
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◼
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even if I didn't end up using either the
[TS]
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◼
►
mouse or the trackpad you know that
[TS]
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◼
►
you'll be able to sell that thing for a
[TS]
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◼
►
billion dollars college fund series on
[TS]
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◼
►
black trackpad it's you're absolutely
[TS]
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◼
►
right unless there's some sort of like
[TS]
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◼
►
software like DRM for lack of a better
[TS]
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◼
►
phrase that that prevents them from
[TS]
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◼
►
working with anything but a iMac Pro
[TS]
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◼
►
which would be ridiculous the DRM is
[TS]
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◼
►
that it would crash and offend your
[TS]
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◼
►
sensibilities
[TS]
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◼
►
fair point I don't know I wonder
[TS]
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◼
►
genuinely once they start showing up how
[TS]
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◼
►
much the keyboard let's let how much do
[TS]
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◼
►
you think let's start with Marco how
[TS]
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◼
►
much do you think a key but what is it
[TS]
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◼
►
the the magic extended keyboard whatever
[TS]
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◼
►
it's called that and either pointing
[TS]
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◼
►
device doesn't matter which one just one
[TS]
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◼
►
pointing device how much do you think
[TS]
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◼
►
that combination will go for I'm like
[TS]
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◼
►
eBay or equivalent I'm guessing it goes
[TS]
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◼
►
for a little above what they would cost
[TS]
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◼
►
a treat
[TS]
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◼
►
I don't think it's gonna be a crazy
[TS]
00:08:53
◼
►
amount if it is and if it is a crazy
[TS]
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◼
►
amount it's going to be only very
[TS]
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◼
►
briefly once they are in people's hands
[TS]
00:08:59
◼
►
I don't think this is gonna be a big of
[TS]
00:09:02
◼
►
like because these are already not cheap
[TS]
00:09:04
◼
►
right they're already like the tripods
[TS]
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◼
►
160 by itself like if you buy it at
[TS]
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◼
►
retail and the keyboards I don't how
[TS]
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◼
►
much keyboardist but you know and the
[TS]
00:09:12
◼
►
mouse is is 100 I think or 80 and so
[TS]
00:09:15
◼
►
like yeah maybe for the hundred $50 or
[TS]
00:09:17
◼
►
trackpad you might get 200 bucks you
[TS]
00:09:19
◼
►
know maybe maybe in the first week you
[TS]
00:09:21
◼
►
might get 250 but I wouldn't expect it
[TS]
00:09:23
◼
►
to be you know a bigger difference than
[TS]
00:09:25
◼
►
that I would think it would be more I
[TS]
00:09:27
◼
►
agree I don't think I don't think it's
[TS]
00:09:28
◼
►
gonna be a big premium I was gonna say
[TS]
00:09:30
◼
►
like a 50-buck premium for the first
[TS]
00:09:31
◼
►
week and then sitting down after that
[TS]
00:09:33
◼
►
especially when people find out that the
[TS]
00:09:34
◼
►
keyboard pens we got some I didn't put
[TS]
00:09:39
◼
►
it in fall but we did to get a bunch of
[TS]
00:09:40
◼
►
feedback about that from people who had
[TS]
00:09:43
◼
►
bent keyboards and some people actually
[TS]
00:09:46
◼
►
did say that as far as they're aware
[TS]
00:09:47
◼
►
they got it and it was fine out of the
[TS]
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◼
►
box and they used it for several months
[TS]
00:09:50
◼
►
and eventually the middle touches when
[TS]
00:09:52
◼
►
it didn't used to and to the point where
[TS]
00:09:54
◼
►
it starts to like spin you know I don't
[TS]
00:09:56
◼
►
know if that's from the force of typing
[TS]
00:09:58
◼
►
or from like heat or something but you
[TS]
00:09:59
◼
►
know like when if if the contact point
[TS]
00:10:01
◼
►
becomes the middle and the size start to
[TS]
00:10:04
◼
►
lift up and it can sort of start
[TS]
00:10:05
◼
►
rotating itself that's no good and
[TS]
00:10:07
◼
►
that's super weird I mean if it's
[TS]
00:10:09
◼
►
happening it's happening but that's
[TS]
00:10:10
◼
►
super weird finally people wrote in and
[TS]
00:10:13
◼
►
pointed out to us that we miss talking
[TS]
00:10:15
◼
►
about something but I'm pretty sure we
[TS]
00:10:17
◼
►
missed it because it didn't happen until
[TS]
00:10:18
◼
►
after we recorded and that is that the
[TS]
00:10:20
◼
►
Mac Pro not the iMac pro but the Mac Pro
[TS]
00:10:23
◼
►
will be quote-unquote upgradeable and so
[TS]
00:10:26
◼
►
this is from an apple press release it
[TS]
00:10:28
◼
►
reads in addition to the new iMac Pro
[TS]
00:10:31
◼
►
apples working on a completely
[TS]
00:10:32
◼
►
redesigned next generation Mac Pro
[TS]
00:10:34
◼
►
architected for pro customers who need
[TS]
00:10:36
◼
►
the highest performance high throughput
[TS]
00:10:37
◼
►
system and a modular upgradable design
[TS]
00:10:40
◼
►
as well as a new high-end Pro display
[TS]
00:10:43
◼
►
now this isn't really news I don't
[TS]
00:10:45
◼
►
believe but it is Apple saying yet it
[TS]
00:10:49
◼
►
you know one more time no really
[TS]
00:10:50
◼
►
everybody this is a thing or well will
[TS]
00:10:53
◼
►
be a thing maybe one day and it should
[TS]
00:10:56
◼
►
hopefully solve a lot of the problems
[TS]
00:10:58
◼
►
that you guys justify it well I
[TS]
00:10:59
◼
►
shouldn't say you too but in general
[TS]
00:11:01
◼
►
people were complaining about and that
[TS]
00:11:03
◼
►
is upgradability so Marco thoughts on
[TS]
00:11:06
◼
►
I mean this was pretty much my fault
[TS]
00:11:07
◼
►
like we you know we recorded and I had
[TS]
00:11:09
◼
►
said like you know be careful - you know
[TS]
00:11:11
◼
►
taming expectations and upgradability
[TS]
00:11:13
◼
►
because I thought all Apple had said
[TS]
00:11:15
◼
►
before that point was that it would be
[TS]
00:11:16
◼
►
modular not necessarily upgradable but
[TS]
00:11:20
◼
►
then they released this press release
[TS]
00:11:21
◼
►
with the iMac Pro which I think was
[TS]
00:11:22
◼
►
actually earlier that day and we just
[TS]
00:11:23
◼
►
didn't see it that says literally a
[TS]
00:11:26
◼
►
modular upgradable design you can bring
[TS]
00:11:30
◼
►
your pessimism back and say that that
[TS]
00:11:32
◼
►
just the RAM will be upgradeable there's
[TS]
00:11:33
◼
►
always room for there's always room for
[TS]
00:11:35
◼
►
worry and also you know it might be a
[TS]
00:11:38
◼
►
situation like what I was just rapping
[TS]
00:11:40
◼
►
with the I my program which is like who
[TS]
00:11:42
◼
►
can upgrade it is as only Apple gonna be
[TS]
00:11:44
◼
►
able upgrade it also what upgrades will
[TS]
00:11:47
◼
►
work in it will you be able to put in
[TS]
00:11:49
◼
►
any GPU probably not will you be able to
[TS]
00:11:52
◼
►
put in any Ram probably not you know any
[TS]
00:11:54
◼
►
disk modules probably like you know
[TS]
00:11:56
◼
►
there's gonna be limits on what you can
[TS]
00:11:59
◼
►
put in it but there always were there
[TS]
00:12:02
◼
►
were and and the but the limits have
[TS]
00:12:04
◼
►
increased over time with with like the
[TS]
00:12:05
◼
►
Mac Pro towers and everything also Durst
[TS]
00:12:07
◼
►
technology has moved on like you know if
[TS]
00:12:10
◼
►
you're talking about wanting for
[TS]
00:12:12
◼
►
instance like what the old ones were
[TS]
00:12:13
◼
►
very good about disk expansion but that
[TS]
00:12:16
◼
►
was also before SSDs really like you
[TS]
00:12:18
◼
►
know the SSD revolution started right at
[TS]
00:12:21
◼
►
the end of the Mac Pro tower era really
[TS]
00:12:23
◼
►
and so you could you could put as his DS
[TS]
00:12:26
◼
►
into the Mac Pro tower but it was not
[TS]
00:12:28
◼
►
designed for them up front like it was
[TS]
00:12:30
◼
►
kind of a hack to get them in there if
[TS]
00:12:31
◼
►
they weren't a PCI card and even then
[TS]
00:12:32
◼
►
those were kind of a hack everything was
[TS]
00:12:34
◼
►
about three and a half inch disks and
[TS]
00:12:35
◼
►
optical drives and these days if you
[TS]
00:12:37
◼
►
designed that you could argue like well
[TS]
00:12:39
◼
►
it probably shouldn't include a three
[TS]
00:12:41
◼
►
and a half inch disk bay at all because
[TS]
00:12:43
◼
►
high-end customers probably are not
[TS]
00:12:45
◼
►
using a lot of internal three and a half
[TS]
00:12:46
◼
►
inch disks anymore so you know there's a
[TS]
00:12:49
◼
►
lot has changed since the era of the
[TS]
00:12:51
◼
►
upgradable tower and I don't even and
[TS]
00:12:55
◼
►
you can even argue for performance
[TS]
00:12:56
◼
►
reasons like you wouldn't want a whole
[TS]
00:12:59
◼
►
bunch of like just serial ata bays in
[TS]
00:13:02
◼
►
there because high-end SSDs are all
[TS]
00:13:05
◼
►
using direct-attached methods now like
[TS]
00:13:07
◼
►
their athlead attacks you the PCI bus
[TS]
00:13:09
◼
►
and things like nvme and stuff like that
[TS]
00:13:11
◼
►
so like there's not a lot of upgrade
[TS]
00:13:14
◼
►
ability that Pro customers who are going
[TS]
00:13:17
◼
►
to be buying the Mac Pro are actually
[TS]
00:13:19
◼
►
going to
[TS]
00:13:20
◼
►
beyond I think RAM disk space but not
[TS]
00:13:24
◼
►
necessarily like a large amount number
[TS]
00:13:26
◼
►
of physical disks and probably the
[TS]
00:13:28
◼
►
number one is GPU upgrades
[TS]
00:13:30
◼
►
ding-ding-ding I don't know whether
[TS]
00:13:32
◼
►
they're gonna deliver that but but I
[TS]
00:13:33
◼
►
think GPU and RAM are the big ones and
[TS]
00:13:35
◼
►
this is kind of a secondary one I think
[TS]
00:13:37
◼
►
this they can get away with especially
[TS]
00:13:39
◼
►
if they have a way for you to you know
[TS]
00:13:41
◼
►
like they can have the super high speed
[TS]
00:13:43
◼
►
storage but then some standard for some
[TS]
00:13:44
◼
►
slower bulk storage but anyway GPU is
[TS]
00:13:46
◼
►
the big one that's what we're talking
[TS]
00:13:47
◼
►
about last time GPUs keep getting faster
[TS]
00:13:49
◼
►
because you can make them faster by just
[TS]
00:13:51
◼
►
adding more transistors you can't do
[TS]
00:13:53
◼
►
that with CPUs you haven't been able to
[TS]
00:13:54
◼
►
for decade or more and so it's so
[TS]
00:13:57
◼
►
important to be able to to do that you
[TS]
00:14:01
◼
►
know even even if Apple won't that you
[TS]
00:14:03
◼
►
can do that's why you know we talked for
[TS]
00:14:04
◼
►
the GPS last time but more people I'm
[TS]
00:14:05
◼
►
sending more links to people showing how
[TS]
00:14:09
◼
►
cruddy old cheesegrater
[TS]
00:14:11
◼
►
can be the iMac pro and all sorts of
[TS]
00:14:14
◼
►
benchmarks if you just take a faster GPU
[TS]
00:14:16
◼
►
and throw it in there and this is an
[TS]
00:14:17
◼
►
ancient cheese grater like how did these
[TS]
00:14:18
◼
►
new GPUs even working there because it's
[TS]
00:14:21
◼
►
just it's just PCI Express right and
[TS]
00:14:23
◼
►
it's just a standard card slot and how
[TS]
00:14:26
◼
►
does the old Mac support it it supports
[TS]
00:14:28
◼
►
it because then I Pro supports that an
[TS]
00:14:29
◼
►
apple just made generic drivers for it
[TS]
00:14:31
◼
►
and that Apple that's not an
[TS]
00:14:34
◼
►
embarrassment for Apple but it's like
[TS]
00:14:35
◼
►
Apple wants in on that action too hey
[TS]
00:14:38
◼
►
we'll make a thing where you can put a
[TS]
00:14:39
◼
►
new GPU in and people want that machine
[TS]
00:14:41
◼
►
because like you know extending the life
[TS]
00:14:43
◼
►
of the machine if you buy this the super
[TS]
00:14:45
◼
►
expensive system that is upgradeable
[TS]
00:14:46
◼
►
part of what you're paying for and we
[TS]
00:14:47
◼
►
build into the price in some way is that
[TS]
00:14:51
◼
►
this machine can last you a long time if
[TS]
00:14:52
◼
►
you're doing GPU intensive work after a
[TS]
00:14:54
◼
►
year or two of use you don't need to
[TS]
00:14:55
◼
►
throw the machine out you just take the
[TS]
00:14:57
◼
►
GPU out and put in one that's way faster
[TS]
00:14:59
◼
►
for a couple hundred bucks and a new
[TS]
00:15:01
◼
►
life for your machine that's that's what
[TS]
00:15:03
◼
►
we all want that's the future liberals
[TS]
00:15:04
◼
►
want we are sponsored this week by
[TS]
00:15:07
◼
►
aftershocks bone conduction headphones
[TS]
00:15:09
◼
►
go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more
[TS]
00:15:12
◼
►
aftershokz headphones work by bone
[TS]
00:15:14
◼
►
conduction this means small transducers
[TS]
00:15:16
◼
►
rest in front of your ears not inside or
[TS]
00:15:19
◼
►
around them like most headphones and
[TS]
00:15:20
◼
►
they send tiny vibrations that you can't
[TS]
00:15:22
◼
►
even feel through your cheek bones
[TS]
00:15:24
◼
►
directly to your inner ear which
[TS]
00:15:26
◼
►
bypasses the outside of your ears
[TS]
00:15:28
◼
►
completely so unlike every other kind of
[TS]
00:15:30
◼
►
headphone bone conduction leave your
[TS]
00:15:32
◼
►
ears completely
[TS]
00:15:33
◼
►
open with nothing in them so for example
[TS]
00:15:36
◼
►
this helps in comfort reasons if you
[TS]
00:15:38
◼
►
can't wear earbuds or in-ear monitors
[TS]
00:15:40
◼
►
without pain like I can't this doesn't
[TS]
00:15:43
◼
►
have that problem because there's
[TS]
00:15:44
◼
►
nothing in your ear they're also really
[TS]
00:15:46
◼
►
great for exercising and hot weather
[TS]
00:15:48
◼
►
because there's nothing covering your
[TS]
00:15:50
◼
►
ear so it doesn't get you all sweaty and
[TS]
00:15:52
◼
►
for exercising it's even better because
[TS]
00:15:54
◼
►
or if it starts raining because they are
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
ip55 certified for water resistance and
[TS]
00:15:59
◼
►
the biggest thing about these headphones
[TS]
00:16:01
◼
►
the biggest thing that I think decides
[TS]
00:16:02
◼
►
whether they're right for you or not is
[TS]
00:16:04
◼
►
because nothing is blocking your ears at
[TS]
00:16:06
◼
►
all you hear all the sound from the
[TS]
00:16:09
◼
►
world around you including what you're
[TS]
00:16:11
◼
►
listening to
[TS]
00:16:12
◼
►
so in loud surroundings this isn't so
[TS]
00:16:14
◼
►
good but they are awesome if you want to
[TS]
00:16:16
◼
►
listen to a podcast or take a phone call
[TS]
00:16:17
◼
►
while doing something like walking
[TS]
00:16:20
◼
►
outside where you really need to hear
[TS]
00:16:22
◼
►
the world around you for your own safety
[TS]
00:16:23
◼
►
they're also great for practical reasons
[TS]
00:16:26
◼
►
like if you want to hear the world
[TS]
00:16:27
◼
►
around you whether it's your home or
[TS]
00:16:28
◼
►
your office or anything else and you
[TS]
00:16:30
◼
►
want to hear like if someone knocks on
[TS]
00:16:31
◼
►
the door you want to know about it or
[TS]
00:16:33
◼
►
say your kid is sleeping upstairs they
[TS]
00:16:34
◼
►
wake up you want to know about that with
[TS]
00:16:36
◼
►
aftershocks you hear what's in the world
[TS]
00:16:38
◼
►
around you as well as what you're
[TS]
00:16:40
◼
►
listening to
[TS]
00:16:40
◼
►
aftershocks has two great models that I
[TS]
00:16:42
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recommend the Trek's titanium and the
[TS]
00:16:45
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Trek's air they're both fantastic the
[TS]
00:16:47
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air is the newer of the two I spend a
[TS]
00:16:50
◼
►
number of months with each of them and
[TS]
00:16:51
◼
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you really can't go wrong the battery
[TS]
00:16:53
◼
►
life is fantastic on both of them
[TS]
00:16:55
◼
►
they're both very comfortable very
[TS]
00:16:56
◼
►
lightweight the air is a little bit
[TS]
00:16:59
◼
►
better for comfort and weight the
[TS]
00:17:00
◼
►
titanium fits in a pocket better so
[TS]
00:17:03
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either way either way you can't go wrong
[TS]
00:17:05
◼
►
there they're both wonderful so check it
[TS]
00:17:07
◼
►
out today go to ATP dot aftershocks com2
[TS]
00:17:12
◼
►
get a good deal on a nice pair of after
[TS]
00:17:14
◼
►
truck strikes titanium or Trek's air
[TS]
00:17:16
◼
►
once again ATP after shocks calm thank
[TS]
00:17:19
◼
►
you so much to aftershock sponsoring our
[TS]
00:17:21
◼
►
show as if I don't know to follow up did
[TS]
00:17:27
◼
►
we order anything I will start and say I
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
if not which I think I said a moment ago
[TS]
00:17:30
◼
►
I still don't think I will
[TS]
00:17:33
◼
►
although if I ever see one in an Apple
[TS]
00:17:35
◼
►
store I'm gonna really have some tough
[TS]
00:17:37
◼
►
thoughts because I've seen this thing at
[TS]
00:17:39
◼
►
wabg seen it is pretty but it's rare
[TS]
00:17:42
◼
►
that I do anything on my iMac
[TS]
00:17:45
◼
►
that I have today that I feel like is
[TS]
00:17:47
◼
►
truly an utterly constrained by
[TS]
00:17:49
◼
►
something an iMac Pro would fix John did
[TS]
00:17:51
◼
►
you order an iMac pro it's certainly you
[TS]
00:17:53
◼
►
must have since this is the thing you've
[TS]
00:17:55
◼
►
been waiting for for years isn't it I
[TS]
00:17:57
◼
►
took a while for me to figure out what
[TS]
00:17:58
◼
►
are you even talking I like what Marco
[TS]
00:18:05
◼
►
was always gonna order once I know I
[TS]
00:18:06
◼
►
didn't buy anything Oh Marco tell us
[TS]
00:18:09
◼
►
about your configuration since we all
[TS]
00:18:10
◼
►
know you did order one I think I ordered
[TS]
00:18:12
◼
►
one what I ordered through the business
[TS]
00:18:17
◼
►
rep but I haven't gotten the order
[TS]
00:18:19
◼
►
confirmation email and my car has not
[TS]
00:18:21
◼
►
been charged and it's been four days
[TS]
00:18:22
◼
►
sometimes Marco blacks out when he buys
[TS]
00:18:27
◼
►
is inexplicable I'm not entirely sure
[TS]
00:18:29
◼
►
whether my order has actually been
[TS]
00:18:30
◼
►
placed or whether it fell on the floor
[TS]
00:18:32
◼
►
because that was a very busy day for
[TS]
00:18:33
◼
►
them or something I have to follow up
[TS]
00:18:35
◼
►
okay so if you ordered one what bill
[TS]
00:18:38
◼
►
what are the highlights of what you
[TS]
00:18:40
◼
►
think you are like if I did it all right
[TS]
00:18:45
◼
►
10 core to put this in context the
[TS]
00:18:48
◼
►
reason I ordered this computer is that
[TS]
00:18:50
◼
►
TIFF wants it in six months and so she
[TS]
00:18:52
◼
►
wants me to buy this now so that way
[TS]
00:18:54
◼
►
when when the Mac Pro comes out I
[TS]
00:18:55
◼
►
upgrade to that and I give her this
[TS]
00:18:57
◼
►
so I basically configured it for TIFF
[TS]
00:18:59
◼
►
which means that I got the really big
[TS]
00:19:02
◼
►
SSD that was the big splurge the ten
[TS]
00:19:05
◼
►
core 64 gigs of ram not 128 cuz any my
[TS]
00:19:09
◼
►
current what's the really big SSD the
[TS]
00:19:11
◼
►
four terabyte yeah for Tara what is she
[TS]
00:19:13
◼
►
it for photos and stuff what she got
[TS]
00:19:15
◼
►
mostly photos and stuff mostly and a
[TS]
00:19:18
◼
►
couple of video stuff around too because
[TS]
00:19:20
◼
►
like you know dealing with the photos
[TS]
00:19:21
◼
►
and processing them into video sometimes
[TS]
00:19:23
◼
►
and what what does she have like how
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
►
much stuff does she have now like does
[TS]
00:19:26
◼
►
she have more than four terabyte total
[TS]
00:19:28
◼
►
storage like I you are you been you
[TS]
00:19:29
◼
►
buying her a computer that's like twice
[TS]
00:19:30
◼
►
as big as the one she has now in terms
[TS]
00:19:32
◼
►
of primary storage or is it about the
[TS]
00:19:34
◼
►
same size when we bought the the 2014's
[TS]
00:19:36
◼
►
that we have now we've maxed it out but
[TS]
00:19:38
◼
►
at the time that was one terabyte so
[TS]
00:19:39
◼
►
it's one terabyte internal and she's had
[TS]
00:19:41
◼
►
this 4 terabyte external thunderbolt
[TS]
00:19:45
◼
►
raid array that literally is for one
[TS]
00:19:47
◼
►
terabyte SSDs in raid 0 don't worry it's
[TS]
00:19:51
◼
►
very much backed up to various places
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
►
but that is now that's not an operating
[TS]
00:19:55
◼
►
constantly for three years in this
[TS]
00:19:57
◼
►
little enclosure with this dumb little
[TS]
00:19:58
◼
►
I don't know how long it's gonna last
[TS]
00:20:00
◼
►
I'd rather not depend on it for too much
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
longer if any of those go bad the last
[TS]
00:20:04
◼
►
thing I'm gonna want to do is buy a new
[TS]
00:20:06
◼
►
one terabyte SSD in 2017 so kind of
[TS]
00:20:10
◼
►
preparing for that to go away
[TS]
00:20:12
◼
►
also I just hate having another box and
[TS]
00:20:14
◼
►
fan and this hot thing all the federal
[TS]
00:20:16
◼
►
stuff runs really hot like the all the
[TS]
00:20:17
◼
►
controller chips that are in the end
[TS]
00:20:18
◼
►
devices they run like red-hot that's why
[TS]
00:20:21
◼
►
it needs is giant fans time for the SSDs
[TS]
00:20:22
◼
►
yeah basically replacing that
[TS]
00:20:24
◼
►
simplifying her setup and making it
[TS]
00:20:27
◼
►
better so that's why I did that and
[TS]
00:20:29
◼
►
again it was also kind of a phrase I'm
[TS]
00:20:31
◼
►
like you know I could probably never
[TS]
00:20:33
◼
►
upgrade these or at least I won't want
[TS]
00:20:35
◼
►
to upgrade them because whatever will be
[TS]
00:20:37
◼
►
involved and whatever it will cost would
[TS]
00:20:38
◼
►
probably be crazy so yeah 4 terabyte but
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
and that was a lot of money I'm not
[TS]
00:20:44
◼
►
gonna try to candy-coat that that was
[TS]
00:20:46
◼
►
ridiculous but you know the rest I kind
[TS]
00:20:49
◼
►
of down the middle configuration below
[TS]
00:20:51
◼
►
end GPU the middle Ram amount and the
[TS]
00:20:55
◼
►
middle CPU I guess how did TIFF approve
[TS]
00:20:57
◼
►
the low end GPU Oh interesting question
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
it's wrist so if you do the research on
[TS]
00:21:03
◼
►
the on the 56 versus the 64 it's not
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
that different like it's and it seems
[TS]
00:21:08
◼
►
like for what we do I don't think
[TS]
00:21:11
◼
►
anything we do you would notice the
[TS]
00:21:13
◼
►
difference at all because you know
[TS]
00:21:16
◼
►
things like Photoshop and Lightroom they
[TS]
00:21:18
◼
►
do use the GPU but not for a huge amount
[TS]
00:21:22
◼
►
of stuff and they don't use it very hard
[TS]
00:21:24
◼
►
and the way that we use these apps
[TS]
00:21:25
◼
►
additionally you're probably thinking
[TS]
00:21:27
◼
►
what about gaming but even for like for
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
a most games she plays or not on the
[TS]
00:21:32
◼
►
computer be it's still going to be a
[TS]
00:21:35
◼
►
massive upgrade from what we have and
[TS]
00:21:36
◼
►
see I don't think the gaming performance
[TS]
00:21:39
◼
►
difference is going to be that big
[TS]
00:21:40
◼
►
between those two well say yeah I'm I'm
[TS]
00:21:44
◼
►
surprised so well I'm anxious to hear
[TS]
00:21:47
◼
►
about this if and when it comes in if
[TS]
00:21:49
◼
►
and when you even ordered it whether or
[TS]
00:21:51
◼
►
not that was a fever dream we'll see if
[TS]
00:21:53
◼
►
I haven't ordered it you want to make
[TS]
00:21:54
◼
►
any edits when I resubmit the order
[TS]
00:21:56
◼
►
actually I think John does it sounds
[TS]
00:21:58
◼
►
reasonable to me I would get a big GPU
[TS]
00:22:01
◼
►
this is not that much more right it's
[TS]
00:22:02
◼
►
like a couple hundred bucks more I think
[TS]
00:22:03
◼
►
like 600 more it's it's a 600 more
[TS]
00:22:05
◼
►
that's the I elected to spend most of
[TS]
00:22:08
◼
►
the craziness on the disk because that's
[TS]
00:22:12
◼
►
we use that that's doing the thing where
[TS]
00:22:13
◼
►
when you you buying a car and it's so
[TS]
00:22:15
◼
►
expensive that $150 the floormat seems
[TS]
00:22:17
◼
►
like nothing same size whether you
[TS]
00:22:21
◼
►
compare it to 30 grand or you compare it
[TS]
00:22:23
◼
►
to 10 bucks it's always 150 it doesn't
[TS]
00:22:25
◼
►
change size but you feel like it does so
[TS]
00:22:27
◼
►
I can use that to persuade you given how
[TS]
00:22:30
◼
►
much you paid for the SSD $600 for a
[TS]
00:22:32
◼
►
better GPU is nothing like it's like
[TS]
00:22:34
◼
►
formats not wrong you know $600 is way
[TS]
00:22:40
◼
►
too much for the for the GPU speed
[TS]
00:22:41
◼
►
upgrade but what you pay for the four
[TS]
00:22:43
◼
►
terabyte is also a too much so you know
[TS]
00:22:45
◼
►
I don't know I don't want to go for me
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
it anyway talk to tip see what you I
[TS]
00:22:47
◼
►
agree all right shall we do some ASCII
[TS]
00:22:50
◼
►
TV let's do it
[TS]
00:22:51
◼
►
so I try to discourage emailed
[TS]
00:22:54
◼
►
submissions because that encourages a
[TS]
00:22:57
◼
►
lack of brevity however every once in a
[TS]
00:22:59
◼
►
while one sneaks through that I really
[TS]
00:23:01
◼
►
like and you added this as show notes
[TS]
00:23:03
◼
►
only because you beat me to it and this
[TS]
00:23:05
◼
►
is Jade a Lu JD lewin writes I'm looking
[TS]
00:23:09
◼
►
to dip my toe into the quote-unquote
[TS]
00:23:11
◼
►
high quality headphone plus DAC digital
[TS]
00:23:13
◼
►
analog converter market which led me to
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
read some of Markos older blog posts at
[TS]
00:23:17
◼
►
the moment the bear dynamic DT 880's
[TS]
00:23:20
◼
►
which I'm pretty sure is what I have on
[TS]
00:23:21
◼
►
my head right now
[TS]
00:23:22
◼
►
7 7 News darn it I can be half four
[TS]
00:23:24
◼
►
hundred two hundred dollars and and I
[TS]
00:23:27
◼
►
fool fula I don't even know how to pull
[TS]
00:23:29
◼
►
up thank you two for $90 this seems to
[TS]
00:23:32
◼
►
be an affordable way to into a into
[TS]
00:23:34
◼
►
dangerous waters my question is about
[TS]
00:23:37
◼
►
source material will this setup be
[TS]
00:23:38
◼
►
wasted on the AC files delivered through
[TS]
00:23:40
◼
►
Apple music Spotify etc so Marco take it
[TS]
00:23:43
◼
►
away yes so to ask the to answer the
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
actual question of whether decent
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
headphones will be wasted on playing AAC
[TS]
00:23:51
◼
►
files from Apple music and Spotify no
[TS]
00:23:54
◼
►
definitely not there is a point where
[TS]
00:23:56
◼
►
some people claim that they can hear
[TS]
00:23:59
◼
►
differences between AAC slash mp3 /
[TS]
00:24:03
◼
►
other loss you can press formats and
[TS]
00:24:04
◼
►
lossless music excuse me yeah see also
[TS]
00:24:08
◼
►
high sample rates higher than 44.1 you
[TS]
00:24:12
◼
►
know bit rates above 24-bit etc we
[TS]
00:24:16
◼
►
talked about this before but but you
[TS]
00:24:17
◼
►
know basically I'm not a believer in
[TS]
00:24:20
◼
►
that being noticeable by most people I'm
[TS]
00:24:24
◼
►
not sure if it was noted by any people
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
but I at least with a few like blind
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
tests that have been done seem to
[TS]
00:24:30
◼
►
support that it really is not noticeable
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
by almost anybody that's so whereas the
[TS]
00:24:36
◼
►
difference in headphones like or
[TS]
00:24:38
◼
►
speakers like like the difference in the
[TS]
00:24:40
◼
►
actual transducers that are producing
[TS]
00:24:43
◼
►
the music for you that can be huge
[TS]
00:24:45
◼
►
differences in very noticeable ways so
[TS]
00:24:48
◼
►
when you're looking for like you know
[TS]
00:24:50
◼
►
places to spend money if you want to get
[TS]
00:24:52
◼
►
a good upgrade a good bang for your buck
[TS]
00:24:54
◼
►
spend that money on the headphones or
[TS]
00:24:56
◼
►
the speakers and not on like the amps
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
and the DAX and the fancy source
[TS]
00:25:01
◼
►
material and the high bitrate everything
[TS]
00:25:03
◼
►
like you will notice the headphones you
[TS]
00:25:05
◼
►
will not notice the DAC and you will not
[TS]
00:25:08
◼
►
notice the the source material being you
[TS]
00:25:11
◼
►
know good or bad because unless it's
[TS]
00:25:13
◼
►
encoded at very low bit rates like a 128
[TS]
00:25:15
◼
►
K mp3 or you know like about the same
[TS]
00:25:17
◼
►
AAC like as long as it's higher than
[TS]
00:25:18
◼
►
that basically you're probably not gonna
[TS]
00:25:20
◼
►
notice it and and all the services now
[TS]
00:25:22
◼
►
they all offer high-quality streaming if
[TS]
00:25:25
◼
►
you have enough bandwidth that is high
[TS]
00:25:27
◼
►
enough that you're not going to notice
[TS]
00:25:28
◼
►
it so don't worry about that on the
[TS]
00:25:31
◼
►
headphone topic itself the bear dynamic
[TS]
00:25:33
◼
►
dt 880 is a very old headphone but still
[TS]
00:25:37
◼
►
a very very good one and if it can be
[TS]
00:25:39
◼
►
had for under 200 bucks that's a great
[TS]
00:25:41
◼
►
deal there's a huge headphone revolution
[TS]
00:25:44
◼
►
happening over the last few years lots
[TS]
00:25:45
◼
►
and lots of amazing headphones are
[TS]
00:25:46
◼
►
coming out and a lot of formerly fairly
[TS]
00:25:49
◼
►
premium ones are being pushed down
[TS]
00:25:51
◼
►
market that is one of them I highly
[TS]
00:25:53
◼
►
suggest if you are a fan of treble in
[TS]
00:25:57
◼
►
music and like if you if you like that
[TS]
00:26:00
◼
►
kind of like crispness that that turning
[TS]
00:26:02
◼
►
up the trouble a little bit offers you
[TS]
00:26:03
◼
►
in music it doesn't if it doesn't sound
[TS]
00:26:05
◼
►
harsh to you Bayer dynamic is a great
[TS]
00:26:07
◼
►
company to look at their headphones tend
[TS]
00:26:10
◼
►
to be a little treble heavy but if you
[TS]
00:26:12
◼
►
like that they are wonderful they are
[TS]
00:26:14
◼
►
also incredibly comfortable
[TS]
00:26:17
◼
►
the downside is at the 880 like almost
[TS]
00:26:20
◼
►
any good and especially due to an
[TS]
00:26:21
◼
►
expensive headphone has an open back to
[TS]
00:26:24
◼
►
the to the ear cups so that means if
[TS]
00:26:26
◼
►
you've never use this before you're
[TS]
00:26:28
◼
►
you're basically the drivers are kind of
[TS]
00:26:30
◼
►
suspended in open air the backs of the
[TS]
00:26:32
◼
►
headphones are just like screens they're
[TS]
00:26:34
◼
►
not solid material and so a Iong tinny
[TS]
00:26:38
◼
►
version of what you are
[TS]
00:26:39
◼
►
- plays out to the to the room around
[TS]
00:26:42
◼
►
you and they don't isolate you very well
[TS]
00:26:45
◼
►
from outside sounds so this is really a
[TS]
00:26:49
◼
►
terrible setup it's a terrible thing to
[TS]
00:26:51
◼
►
use open headphones if you are in either
[TS]
00:26:53
◼
►
a loud environment like walking around a
[TS]
00:26:55
◼
►
city or if you are sharing an office
[TS]
00:26:58
◼
►
with anybody because your music will be
[TS]
00:27:01
◼
►
really annoyingly tinny and weird
[TS]
00:27:03
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sounding to anyone else in the office
[TS]
00:27:04
◼
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they will hate you if you play
[TS]
00:27:05
◼
►
headphones in that way but if you have
[TS]
00:27:07
◼
►
like your own quiet space where there's
[TS]
00:27:09
◼
►
not other people around to annoy open
[TS]
00:27:11
◼
►
headphones are by far the best sound you
[TS]
00:27:14
◼
►
can get for the money
[TS]
00:27:15
◼
►
knotti it's not even close and there's
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
basically three points that you need to
[TS]
00:27:20
◼
►
know about in this market on the very
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
low end you have the grado sr60 sounds
[TS]
00:27:25
◼
►
amazing costs like 60 or 70 bucks but is
[TS]
00:27:27
◼
►
pretty uncomfortable then you have the
[TS]
00:27:29
◼
►
day or dynamic dt 880 which is the one
[TS]
00:27:32
◼
►
that JD is asking about here
[TS]
00:27:34
◼
►
they are great Tiff's use as a pair on
[TS]
00:27:37
◼
►
at her desk still they're wonderful
[TS]
00:27:38
◼
►
around 200 bucks very very comfortable
[TS]
00:27:41
◼
►
everything about them is great except
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
they have that open back which is you
[TS]
00:27:44
◼
►
know impractical in certain contexts and
[TS]
00:27:46
◼
►
then also if you don't like very strong
[TS]
00:27:49
◼
►
treble you won't like either of those
[TS]
00:27:50
◼
►
options if you like it more what they
[TS]
00:27:52
◼
►
call laid-back sound where they kind of
[TS]
00:27:54
◼
►
like roll off the treble it's very much
[TS]
00:27:56
◼
►
like younger people tend to like this a
[TS]
00:27:58
◼
►
little bit more because it kind of goes
[TS]
00:27:59
◼
►
into like the soft is loud musical
[TS]
00:28:02
◼
►
aesthetic that has been taken over
[TS]
00:28:03
◼
►
recently in like emo music and stuff and
[TS]
00:28:05
◼
►
whatever else that I'm probably mangling
[TS]
00:28:07
◼
►
the terminology for if you like that if
[TS]
00:28:09
◼
►
you don't like a lot of trouble and you
[TS]
00:28:10
◼
►
like it to be very soft and like you
[TS]
00:28:13
◼
►
know gentle on your ears the Sennheiser
[TS]
00:28:17
◼
►
HD 650 used to be $600 and in recent
[TS]
00:28:22
◼
►
years they've done a bunch of like
[TS]
00:28:23
◼
►
special things or they've cut in the
[TS]
00:28:25
◼
►
price at that or they're doing special
[TS]
00:28:27
◼
►
editions with mass drop but it's still
[TS]
00:28:29
◼
►
basically the HD 650 that is an amazing
[TS]
00:28:32
◼
►
headphone it's old and it looks kind of
[TS]
00:28:34
◼
►
weird it has like speckled plastic it's
[TS]
00:28:36
◼
►
a very ugly thing but it's like it's an
[TS]
00:28:39
◼
►
amazing sounding headphone if you can
[TS]
00:28:40
◼
►
get it for below 300 bucks and if you
[TS]
00:28:43
◼
►
don't like that strong treble that the
[TS]
00:28:44
◼
►
bear that I make will give you so
[TS]
00:28:46
◼
►
basically those my recommendations
[TS]
00:28:47
◼
►
ignore the source material quality just
[TS]
00:28:49
◼
►
get whatever you get don't be upset it's
[TS]
00:28:50
◼
►
wonderful it'll be good enough and if
[TS]
00:28:53
◼
►
spend 60 bucks like any like treble and
[TS]
00:28:55
◼
►
you don't like comfort get the great OSR
[TS]
00:28:57
◼
►
60 if you if you want comfort and still
[TS]
00:29:02
◼
►
like treble the DT 880 and if you don't
[TS]
00:29:06
◼
►
like treble and you can spend like 300
[TS]
00:29:08
◼
►
bucks ish range the sennheiser HD 650
[TS]
00:29:11
◼
►
and on the dax side all of those can be
[TS]
00:29:16
◼
►
driven perfectly fine from the headphone
[TS]
00:29:18
◼
►
jack in any mac desktop or laptop the
[TS]
00:29:22
◼
►
phone you won't get a lot of volume out
[TS]
00:29:24
◼
►
of if you if you try to push it too high
[TS]
00:29:25
◼
►
but you don't need an external DAC for
[TS]
00:29:28
◼
►
any of those headphones you might get a
[TS]
00:29:30
◼
►
little bit better performance in volume
[TS]
00:29:32
◼
►
and maybe at the highest volumes maybe a
[TS]
00:29:34
◼
►
little bit better bass especially this
[TS]
00:29:36
◼
►
the HD 650 is the least efficient of all
[TS]
00:29:38
◼
►
those that I just mentioned so that's
[TS]
00:29:39
◼
►
the one that most would need one but
[TS]
00:29:42
◼
►
you're pretty much fine without without
[TS]
00:29:44
◼
►
that if you like if you just want to
[TS]
00:29:46
◼
►
start just got a really nice pair of
[TS]
00:29:47
◼
►
headphones that can work with the
[TS]
00:29:48
◼
►
built-in headphone jack in your Mac
[TS]
00:29:50
◼
►
which almost everything can you know I
[TS]
00:29:53
◼
►
just like to say I agree with pretty
[TS]
00:29:56
◼
►
much everything you said I don't know
[TS]
00:29:57
◼
►
about specific recommendations of
[TS]
00:29:58
◼
►
headphones I haven't bought headphones
[TS]
00:29:59
◼
►
in a long time outside of my ear pods
[TS]
00:30:01
◼
►
but I wanted to and I think I've done
[TS]
00:30:04
◼
►
this every time you brought it up I
[TS]
00:30:05
◼
►
wanted to concur with you about open
[TS]
00:30:07
◼
►
headphones I have an ancient pair of
[TS]
00:30:10
◼
►
Sennheiser's I don't even remember what
[TS]
00:30:11
◼
►
model they are they're so damaged there
[TS]
00:30:13
◼
►
are five nine eight maybe something like
[TS]
00:30:15
◼
►
that I mean they're like easily ten
[TS]
00:30:16
◼
►
years old at this point and I can dig up
[TS]
00:30:19
◼
►
what they are doesn't really matter but
[TS]
00:30:21
◼
►
suffice to say I have an ancient pair of
[TS]
00:30:23
◼
►
Sennheiser open-air headphones and they
[TS]
00:30:26
◼
►
are phenomenal they are truly truly
[TS]
00:30:31
◼
►
great it is terrible to be within 30
[TS]
00:30:33
◼
►
feet of me when I was but but they are
[TS]
00:30:36
◼
►
really really good and I also wanted to
[TS]
00:30:39
◼
►
agree with you about the quality of the
[TS]
00:30:41
◼
►
source material that you you can go flak
[TS]
00:30:44
◼
►
if you want if you want to be one of
[TS]
00:30:46
◼
►
those kind of nerds but again Marko was
[TS]
00:30:48
◼
►
absolutely right that the best thing to
[TS]
00:30:50
◼
►
do is change your headphones I will
[TS]
00:30:52
◼
►
however say if you can stand in ear
[TS]
00:30:56
◼
►
earbuds earphones whatever then ear
[TS]
00:30:59
◼
►
monitors I thank you yeah well not even
[TS]
00:31:02
◼
►
the custom mold ones I'm just talking
[TS]
00:31:03
◼
►
about like a really really fancy pair of
[TS]
00:31:06
◼
►
phones I think they're a lot more
[TS]
00:31:08
◼
►
finicky I I don't think they're really
[TS]
00:31:11
◼
►
worth it
[TS]
00:31:12
◼
►
but I have a really fancy pair of now
[TS]
00:31:14
◼
►
very discontinued Ultimate Ears in-ear
[TS]
00:31:17
◼
►
headphone things and they are when
[TS]
00:31:21
◼
►
they're seated properly they're the best
[TS]
00:31:23
◼
►
headphones I have but to be fair to get
[TS]
00:31:26
◼
►
them seated a hundred percent properly
[TS]
00:31:27
◼
►
is a real pain in the butt so I still
[TS]
00:31:30
◼
►
think Marcos right that doing something
[TS]
00:31:31
◼
►
a traditional headphone preferably open
[TS]
00:31:33
◼
►
air is a better choice but if you have
[TS]
00:31:35
◼
►
ears that are conducive to in-ear things
[TS]
00:31:39
◼
►
or are willing to spend the money to get
[TS]
00:31:41
◼
►
your ears poured and you know get custom
[TS]
00:31:43
◼
►
molds made to get im's like Marco just
[TS]
00:31:46
◼
►
brought up that is probably the money no
[TS]
00:31:48
◼
►
object you know effort no object best in
[TS]
00:31:52
◼
►
most effective way to get good
[TS]
00:31:53
◼
►
headphones in my personal opinion but a
[TS]
00:31:55
◼
►
lot of people don't really agree with
[TS]
00:31:57
◼
►
that hello Marco and other people don't
[TS]
00:31:59
◼
►
want to spend that money and don't want
[TS]
00:32:01
◼
►
to be bothered hello both of us oh it's
[TS]
00:32:05
◼
►
not the it's not the best answer unless
[TS]
00:32:06
◼
►
you're really really going deep into
[TS]
00:32:09
◼
►
this world but it's worth at least
[TS]
00:32:11
◼
►
mentioning all right Jeremy Nachman
[TS]
00:32:14
◼
►
writes I've never had much interest in
[TS]
00:32:16
◼
►
cars personally but I have a nine year
[TS]
00:32:17
◼
►
old who seems to have an interest do you
[TS]
00:32:19
◼
►
have any car magazine recommendations
[TS]
00:32:20
◼
►
the kids would enjoy doesn't necessarily
[TS]
00:32:22
◼
►
need to be one targeting a kids audience
[TS]
00:32:25
◼
►
when I was growing up and I was about
[TS]
00:32:27
◼
►
this age I used to love reading Car and
[TS]
00:32:28
◼
►
Driver and I don't pay attention to
[TS]
00:32:30
◼
►
print magazines very much anymore and I
[TS]
00:32:32
◼
►
know John you do so I'm gonna turn it
[TS]
00:32:33
◼
►
over to you in a second but last I saw a
[TS]
00:32:35
◼
►
car driver was still pretty good Motor
[TS]
00:32:37
◼
►
Trend was okay you can also get a lot of
[TS]
00:32:40
◼
►
really good stuff on YouTube and that's
[TS]
00:32:42
◼
►
not even like me trying to plug myself
[TS]
00:32:44
◼
►
although hey Casey on cars is a new
[TS]
00:32:45
◼
►
series you might want to look at so here
[TS]
00:32:47
◼
►
I am plugging myself but uh but no like
[TS]
00:32:48
◼
►
the Motor Trend stuff that's on YouTube
[TS]
00:32:50
◼
►
is actually very very good and very
[TS]
00:32:51
◼
►
digestible and not too bro II generally
[TS]
00:32:55
◼
►
speaking there's plenty of car stuff on
[TS]
00:32:57
◼
►
YouTube that is very bro II and I
[TS]
00:32:59
◼
►
wouldn't necessarily recommend for a
[TS]
00:33:00
◼
►
nine year old but the Motor Trend stuff
[TS]
00:33:02
◼
►
is good in terms of magazines car and
[TS]
00:33:04
◼
►
driver John additional thoughts yeah the
[TS]
00:33:07
◼
►
kid angle on this is what makes it
[TS]
00:33:09
◼
►
difficult because I still watch a lot of
[TS]
00:33:11
◼
►
car stuff on YouTube and
[TS]
00:33:13
◼
►
I have in the past subscribe to I think
[TS]
00:33:16
◼
►
every car every straight car magazine
[TS]
00:33:19
◼
►
like you know truck magazines or you
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
know hotrod magazines or more specialty
[TS]
00:33:23
◼
►
type of stuff which may be what you had
[TS]
00:33:26
◼
►
ends up getting into but for car
[TS]
00:33:28
◼
►
magazines car driver is still my gold
[TS]
00:33:30
◼
►
standard but the reason I have trouble
[TS]
00:33:33
◼
►
recommending this for a kid is because
[TS]
00:33:36
◼
►
like when you think of car magazines
[TS]
00:33:38
◼
►
like in the worst case scenario you're
[TS]
00:33:41
◼
►
thinking of like some Hot Rod Magazine
[TS]
00:33:43
◼
►
where every single month is there's a
[TS]
00:33:45
◼
►
girl in a bikini sitting on the roof of
[TS]
00:33:46
◼
►
a car and you're like oh I'm not gonna
[TS]
00:33:47
◼
►
buy those for my kids because that's you
[TS]
00:33:49
◼
►
know I don't want to spread that kind of
[TS]
00:33:51
◼
►
message about how the stuff works but
[TS]
00:33:53
◼
►
here's the problem with even car and
[TS]
00:33:56
◼
►
driver which I think has some of the
[TS]
00:33:57
◼
►
best car riding and has for many years
[TS]
00:33:59
◼
►
now it is relentlessly unconsciously
[TS]
00:34:03
◼
►
sexist like it is in every pore of that
[TS]
00:34:07
◼
►
magazine and you think there's no girls
[TS]
00:34:09
◼
►
in bikinis on the cover like it's fine
[TS]
00:34:10
◼
►
right it's not though like every article
[TS]
00:34:12
◼
►
is written assuming the the person
[TS]
00:34:14
◼
►
reading it is a man like every joke
[TS]
00:34:17
◼
►
every gag every cover image I really
[TS]
00:34:19
◼
►
like so much so that they they don't
[TS]
00:34:21
◼
►
even know they're doing it they don't
[TS]
00:34:22
◼
►
even think that there could possibly be
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
another joke they don't make any attempt
[TS]
00:34:25
◼
►
like and and then there's some
[TS]
00:34:28
◼
►
right-wing politics this turn on there
[TS]
00:34:29
◼
►
but I think that's less harmful because
[TS]
00:34:31
◼
►
it's it's you know mixed up everything
[TS]
00:34:32
◼
►
else so I have trouble recommending that
[TS]
00:34:35
◼
►
young people start their life in cars
[TS]
00:34:39
◼
►
reading a magazine that assumes the only
[TS]
00:34:41
◼
►
people who ever be into cars are men
[TS]
00:34:43
◼
►
because that's not healthy for anybody
[TS]
00:34:44
◼
►
involved so I would say the YouTube has
[TS]
00:34:47
◼
►
a higher chance of being sort of more
[TS]
00:34:51
◼
►
welcoming at least the YouTube channels
[TS]
00:34:53
◼
►
I've seen there are many things to not
[TS]
00:34:54
◼
►
recommend them and there are of course
[TS]
00:34:55
◼
►
you know YouTube channels with terrible
[TS]
00:34:58
◼
►
bro people saying terrible Brobee things
[TS]
00:35:00
◼
►
what else is new it's the Internet but
[TS]
00:35:03
◼
►
hey I think kids are more likely to get
[TS]
00:35:06
◼
►
into that then you know paper magazines
[TS]
00:35:08
◼
►
which come on who reads those and B I
[TS]
00:35:11
◼
►
think you might have a better chance of
[TS]
00:35:14
◼
►
steering your kid towards a more
[TS]
00:35:19
◼
►
inclusive YouTube channel because
[TS]
00:35:22
◼
►
honestly I don't know of any magazines
[TS]
00:35:23
◼
►
that aren't if a car and driver is is
[TS]
00:35:25
◼
►
probably the best one automobile
[TS]
00:35:27
◼
►
is fairly good too but just all those
[TS]
00:35:30
◼
►
carvings just assume you are a guy
[TS]
00:35:33
◼
►
reading a car magazine and they half the
[TS]
00:35:35
◼
►
time they don't even know they're
[TS]
00:35:36
◼
►
assuming it and it's it's not it's not a
[TS]
00:35:39
◼
►
good look and it's not something that I
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
would recommend a young person get into
[TS]
00:35:42
◼
►
because while I perpetuate that let me
[TS]
00:35:45
◼
►
just put out a call that if you are
[TS]
00:35:47
◼
►
listening to this and you know of a
[TS]
00:35:49
◼
►
YouTube channel hosted by a woman that's
[TS]
00:35:52
◼
►
really good that's about cars or know an
[TS]
00:35:54
◼
►
author that's you know either a blogger
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
or you know a particular author to look
[TS]
00:35:58
◼
►
at any of these car magazines that's a
[TS]
00:35:59
◼
►
woman I would love to know that because
[TS]
00:36:00
◼
►
I certainly only hear dudes of various
[TS]
00:36:03
◼
►
bro eNOS talking about cars I'd love to
[TS]
00:36:05
◼
►
hear you know a different perspective on
[TS]
00:36:06
◼
►
that so or maybe not even a woman just a
[TS]
00:36:08
◼
►
different perspective I mean to find
[TS]
00:36:10
◼
►
that however you'd like but I'd love to
[TS]
00:36:12
◼
►
hear it so feel free to tweet at me and
[TS]
00:36:14
◼
►
let me know and by the way Jeremy Jeremy
[TS]
00:36:16
◼
►
didn't say whether his kid was girl or
[TS]
00:36:18
◼
►
boy and I don't think it matters like
[TS]
00:36:20
◼
►
you shouldn't if your if your kid is
[TS]
00:36:21
◼
►
like a little boy who's super into cars
[TS]
00:36:23
◼
►
he shouldn't be reading a magazine that
[TS]
00:36:25
◼
►
assumes everybody who reading it as a
[TS]
00:36:27
◼
►
dude either like that's it's not there's
[TS]
00:36:29
◼
►
nothing to do with the gender of the
[TS]
00:36:30
◼
►
child or anything like that it's just
[TS]
00:36:31
◼
►
like what I'm getting is print is old
[TS]
00:36:34
◼
►
and it is mostly dominated by old people
[TS]
00:36:36
◼
►
with old opinions and even has new
[TS]
00:36:38
◼
►
writers have come in and I think I made
[TS]
00:36:39
◼
►
a tweet a couple years ago to the effect
[TS]
00:36:41
◼
►
that you could see the change over on
[TS]
00:36:42
◼
►
the writing staff of Car and Driver when
[TS]
00:36:44
◼
►
they started making a jokes and the
[TS]
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captions are their images that reference
[TS]
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things like Star Trek or you wouldn't
[TS]
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have seen that when like Brock Yates was
[TS]
00:36:51
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still writing or whatever like there is
[TS]
00:36:52
◼
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a changing of the guard but it's still
[TS]
00:36:54
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it's still the the boys club and there's
[TS]
00:36:57
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no reason it should be there's nothing
[TS]
00:36:58
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there's nothing gendered about cars
[TS]
00:36:59
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right so that's disappointing it in
[TS]
00:37:02
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YouTube I feel like is slightly better
[TS]
00:37:04
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it's also worse like you know the
[TS]
00:37:06
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equivalent of the bikini girls on the
[TS]
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hoods those YouTube channels totally
[TS]
00:37:09
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exist to write so you know the Internet
[TS]
00:37:12
◼
►
is a big place so be careful all right
[TS]
00:37:15
◼
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and finally from Jeff e sue ECC Ram
[TS]
00:37:18
◼
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seems to make sense for high stakes
[TS]
00:37:20
◼
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contexts like Finance space like space
[TS]
00:37:23
◼
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travel etc what practical effects do you
[TS]
00:37:26
◼
►
expect it to have on it on a Mac have
[TS]
00:37:28
◼
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you ever noticed a flip bit on your
[TS]
00:37:30
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machine do you just find it cool as a
[TS]
00:37:32
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nerd and or want it for peace of mind so
[TS]
00:37:35
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John can you kind of do a recap for us
[TS]
00:37:37
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and what ECC Ram is why this is relevant
[TS]
00:37:39
◼
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now and then
[TS]
00:37:40
◼
►
answered that a couple pass shows we had
[TS]
00:37:44
◼
►
debates about importance names for
[TS]
00:37:47
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error-correcting where if they're you
[TS]
00:37:49
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know they send the information from RAM
[TS]
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but they also have a bit to check
[TS]
00:37:52
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whether the information you're getting
[TS]
00:37:53
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is accurately represented you think it
[TS]
00:37:54
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was like a parity bit or whatever but I
[TS]
00:37:56
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think it's more complicated than that
[TS]
00:37:57
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these days but anyway usually they have
[TS]
00:37:59
◼
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the bit to recover the ability to
[TS]
00:38:01
◼
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recover from small errors like a one bit
[TS]
00:38:03
◼
►
error they can correct that on the fly
[TS]
00:38:05
◼
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because they know which bit is often
[TS]
00:38:07
◼
►
what it should be instead and so as you
[TS]
00:38:09
◼
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know what would have been some bad data
[TS]
00:38:12
◼
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coming out of RAM gets two corrected to
[TS]
00:38:13
◼
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the right data
[TS]
00:38:15
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►
why would bad data come out of RAM
[TS]
00:38:17
◼
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that's the question about what what
[TS]
00:38:19
◼
►
errors are you correcting who cares if
[TS]
00:38:21
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you have error correcting ability in
[TS]
00:38:22
◼
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your RAM chips Ram chips don't make any
[TS]
00:38:24
◼
►
many errors they're solid-state
[TS]
00:38:26
◼
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components everything is perfect about
[TS]
00:38:27
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them right unfortunately everything in
[TS]
00:38:29
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the world digital is under the covers
[TS]
00:38:31
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analog until you get down to the quantum
[TS]
00:38:33
◼
►
level but we're not going to get into
[TS]
00:38:34
◼
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that I have limits somewhere yeah so the
[TS]
00:38:38
◼
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question is how often these errors come
[TS]
00:38:41
◼
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up and last time we talked about this we
[TS]
00:38:42
◼
►
cited a bunch of studies we'll put two
[TS]
00:38:44
◼
►
links into the show notes about two semi
[TS]
00:38:47
◼
►
recent ones one of them was a 2009 study
[TS]
00:38:50
◼
►
that was supposedly saying that the
[TS]
00:38:52
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error rates in RAM are much higher than
[TS]
00:38:54
◼
►
it previously measured something like 25
[TS]
00:38:59
◼
►
to 70,000 errors per billion device
[TS]
00:39:02
◼
►
hours per megabit with errors on more
[TS]
00:39:05
◼
►
than 8% of dims and there's an IBM study
[TS]
00:39:08
◼
►
in the 90s looking at like the causes of
[TS]
00:39:11
◼
►
this like you know radiation from space
[TS]
00:39:13
◼
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essentially flipping your bits assuming
[TS]
00:39:15
◼
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you're not in something that is shielded
[TS]
00:39:17
◼
►
from cosmic rays producing one error per
[TS]
00:39:22
◼
►
256 megabytes of RAM per month and you
[TS]
00:39:26
◼
►
know you can sell it from the 90s
[TS]
00:39:27
◼
►
because it talked about too much you
[TS]
00:39:28
◼
►
know so one error per two hundred
[TS]
00:39:29
◼
►
physics megawatts a ram per month that's
[TS]
00:39:31
◼
►
not a small number if we have four gigs
[TS]
00:39:32
◼
►
of RAM right or 16 gigs or whatever you
[TS]
00:39:36
◼
►
have errors happen now the question is
[TS]
00:39:39
◼
►
alright so who care who care is a bit is
[TS]
00:39:41
◼
►
flipped what does that manifest in some
[TS]
00:39:43
◼
►
way if you got unlucky
[TS]
00:39:44
◼
►
it could take your whole computer down
[TS]
00:39:45
◼
►
but chances are good nothing will happen
[TS]
00:39:48
◼
►
because that bit didn't matter like
[TS]
00:39:50
◼
►
there are so many bits that just don't
[TS]
00:39:51
◼
►
matter not even that it gets corrupted
[TS]
00:39:53
◼
►
and ends up in the
[TS]
00:39:53
◼
►
maybe that bit just didn't matter at all
[TS]
00:39:56
◼
►
or you know it changed something
[TS]
00:39:58
◼
►
it changed the the color of a pixel in a
[TS]
00:40:02
◼
►
way that you couldn't detect or it just
[TS]
00:40:04
◼
►
ended up in some garbage data at the end
[TS]
00:40:06
◼
►
of you know at the end of some buffer
[TS]
00:40:09
◼
►
that never got reached like it maybe it
[TS]
00:40:11
◼
►
just doesn't matter it came out of RAM
[TS]
00:40:12
◼
►
and I got over and with something else
[TS]
00:40:13
◼
►
but every once in a while it does matter
[TS]
00:40:15
◼
►
and the reason people use ECC is because
[TS]
00:40:17
◼
►
they think you know that for the small
[TS]
00:40:19
◼
►
incremental cost of having ECC Ram maybe
[TS]
00:40:22
◼
►
it saves you from four you know four
[TS]
00:40:24
◼
►
computers that run a really long time
[TS]
00:40:25
◼
►
and uptime is important and correctness
[TS]
00:40:28
◼
►
is important this is the the best we
[TS]
00:40:30
◼
►
have to get a little bit more safety for
[TS]
00:40:32
◼
►
not that much more cost and that's why
[TS]
00:40:36
◼
►
servers use it and that's why fancy
[TS]
00:40:38
◼
►
high-end desktop so server hardware use
[TS]
00:40:40
◼
►
it and I think a lot of it for nerds
[TS]
00:40:43
◼
►
like us is like well it doesn't cost
[TS]
00:40:44
◼
►
that much more and it makes us not
[TS]
00:40:46
◼
►
anymore reliable so let's do it but you
[TS]
00:40:50
◼
►
know how it's not like a light comes on
[TS]
00:40:53
◼
►
when it tells you just saved you from
[TS]
00:40:54
◼
►
something because kind of like the Big
[TS]
00:40:56
◼
►
Sky theory in aviation the big RAM
[TS]
00:40:58
◼
►
theory is the chances of one of those
[TS]
00:41:01
◼
►
bit flips actually affecting something
[TS]
00:41:03
◼
►
you do in a way that you noticed is
[TS]
00:41:05
◼
►
actually pretty low but it just you know
[TS]
00:41:07
◼
►
it doesn't make us feel better so the
[TS]
00:41:09
◼
►
answer's no there's no reason basically
[TS]
00:41:10
◼
►
no I mean the reason is that it does
[TS]
00:41:13
◼
►
improve things and it doesn't cost that
[TS]
00:41:14
◼
►
much more if it was seven times the cost
[TS]
00:41:16
◼
►
it would be ridiculous but just a little
[TS]
00:41:19
◼
►
bit more and so you're like yeah why not
[TS]
00:41:21
◼
►
why not do that for a little bit more
[TS]
00:41:23
◼
►
also and I this could just be terrible
[TS]
00:41:26
◼
►
anok data you know but just anecdotally
[TS]
00:41:29
◼
►
my Mac Pros have been the most stable
[TS]
00:41:32
◼
►
solid machines I've owned and I've gone
[TS]
00:41:34
◼
►
I've used laptops full time I've used an
[TS]
00:41:37
◼
►
iMac full time and I've used Mac Pro's
[TS]
00:41:39
◼
►
full time and it's just it's very very
[TS]
00:41:41
◼
►
different the Mac pros were always the
[TS]
00:41:43
◼
►
most stable machines by far you didn't
[TS]
00:41:45
◼
►
keep the trashcans long enough for your
[TS]
00:41:46
◼
►
GPUs to overheat so I didn't use GPUs
[TS]
00:41:49
◼
►
heavily enough yeah when I turn me like
[TS]
00:41:51
◼
►
you know eight or nine months I had one
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00:41:52
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it was rock-solid we were sponsored this
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you need online backup because if you
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are only backed up to say a hard drive
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next to your computer in your office to
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00:42:12
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your house you aren't protected from
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00:42:14
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things like fire floods theft power
[TS]
00:42:17
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surges or just human errors that could
[TS]
00:42:19
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accidentally wipe the data on that hard
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00:42:21
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drive or damage that hard drive in
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00:42:23
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addition to the one in your computer
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with cloud backup you have a wonderful
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failsafe option that can cover all sorts
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of different risks that a local backup
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00:42:30
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can't you also have very convenient
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00:42:32
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feature so for instance if you have a
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00:42:34
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cloud backup you can do things like
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00:42:35
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restore a file from your home computer
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00:42:38
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onto a laptop when you're on vacation if
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00:42:40
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you if you need to work on that file you
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forgot to bring it with you you can also
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do the same thing from their mobile app
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your phone and need to get a file from
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your home computer you can just restore
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it with their app for ios and android
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right onto your phone it's very very
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convenient if you need to do a whole
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system restore if you lose all your data
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you need to actually restore from the
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cloud you can use their website to
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download it immediately or you can have
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FedEx and if you return the hard drive
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back to them when you're done you get a
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00:43:40
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space thank you so much to back place
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00:44:00
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for sponsoring our show I have questions
[TS]
00:44:06
◼
►
about the iMac pros / Mac Pro as someone
[TS]
00:44:10
◼
►
who used to know the ins and outs of
[TS]
00:44:12
◼
►
what the current processors were in GPUs
[TS]
00:44:14
◼
►
and things of that nature like 20 years
[TS]
00:44:16
◼
►
ago when I was building my own pcs I
[TS]
00:44:18
◼
►
have not kept
[TS]
00:44:19
◼
►
up in a long time and it seems like and
[TS]
00:44:23
◼
►
I might even get this backwards so jump
[TS]
00:44:25
◼
►
in and correct me but it seems like
[TS]
00:44:26
◼
►
everyone is really perturbed that the
[TS]
00:44:29
◼
►
iMac Pro is only coming with an AMD
[TS]
00:44:31
◼
►
graphics card and apparently it's bit
[TS]
00:44:34
◼
►
like nvidia or bust in the graphics card
[TS]
00:44:37
◼
►
department can one of you guys explain
[TS]
00:44:39
◼
►
to me like a do I even have that right
[TS]
00:44:41
◼
►
be why and see then why isn't Apple
[TS]
00:44:46
◼
►
offering Nvidia cards and why are they
[TS]
00:44:49
◼
►
so committed to AMD or gear or at least
[TS]
00:44:52
◼
►
what's your best guess if nothing else
[TS]
00:44:53
◼
►
John do you want to kind of talk me
[TS]
00:44:55
◼
►
through this the Nvidia thing we talked
[TS]
00:44:58
◼
►
about this before about who at various
[TS]
00:45:02
◼
►
times in our life using computers has
[TS]
00:45:04
◼
►
been the GPU performance King you know
[TS]
00:45:07
◼
►
like starting from I guess the voodoo3
[TS]
00:45:09
◼
►
Hayes I remember those days
[TS]
00:45:12
◼
►
3d effects and you know anyway did you
[TS]
00:45:15
◼
►
did that Mac I think we talked about
[TS]
00:45:17
◼
►
this months and months ago but to the
[TS]
00:45:19
◼
►
Mac ever have the thing where you had a
[TS]
00:45:21
◼
►
little stubby VGA cable to connect the
[TS]
00:45:22
◼
►
2d card to the 3d card do you know what
[TS]
00:45:25
◼
►
I'm talking about that's pretty sure it
[TS]
00:45:26
◼
►
did not ever have anything like that the
[TS]
00:45:28
◼
►
Mac never had gaming or VGA you know
[TS]
00:45:34
◼
►
exactly what I'm talking about that
[TS]
00:45:35
◼
►
don't you mark I was like you had one of
[TS]
00:45:36
◼
►
these yeah we connect to your 3d effects
[TS]
00:45:38
◼
►
accelerator card yeah yeah those are the
[TS]
00:45:41
◼
►
days sorry anyway John Kerry oh yeah so
[TS]
00:45:43
◼
►
so you know as the market is
[TS]
00:45:46
◼
►
consolidated it's settled down in the
[TS]
00:45:48
◼
►
latter years as being a TI versus Nvidia
[TS]
00:45:52
◼
►
and occasionally they would swap places
[TS]
00:45:54
◼
►
of what generation of card you know does
[TS]
00:45:56
◼
►
they would realize their architectures
[TS]
00:45:58
◼
►
and then they would have multiple cards
[TS]
00:45:59
◼
►
and you'd have overclocked cards and
[TS]
00:46:01
◼
►
stuff and then they've advised ARCA
[TS]
00:46:02
◼
►
anyway at various points Nvidia had the
[TS]
00:46:05
◼
►
fastest meaning like basically for games
[TS]
00:46:07
◼
►
like who can run insert hot 3d game here
[TS]
00:46:11
◼
►
the fastest sometimes it was Nvidia
[TS]
00:46:13
◼
►
sometimes it was AMD if you've looked at
[TS]
00:46:17
◼
►
the swings it seems that in both the
[TS]
00:46:20
◼
►
most recent years and Vidya has been on
[TS]
00:46:22
◼
►
top more but it really depends on the
[TS]
00:46:24
◼
►
specific application but for right now
[TS]
00:46:28
◼
►
and Ruby is on top in a lot of markets
[TS]
00:46:30
◼
►
and games I think they're on top
[TS]
00:46:32
◼
►
because they make a lot of cars that
[TS]
00:46:34
◼
►
make sacrifices in precision for the
[TS]
00:46:38
◼
►
purposes of performance and very often
[TS]
00:46:39
◼
►
ATI which is now AMD would tell you yeah
[TS]
00:46:43
◼
►
that's fine but if you want to do real
[TS]
00:46:44
◼
►
serious work with like a program that
[TS]
00:46:47
◼
►
requires higher precision that AMD is
[TS]
00:46:48
◼
►
better or whatever but also because
[TS]
00:46:51
◼
►
nvidia and AMD have chosen different
[TS]
00:46:53
◼
►
platforms for compute on GPUs and
[TS]
00:46:56
◼
►
Nvidia's the one that they're what is
[TS]
00:46:59
◼
►
there is a CUDA da cunha yeah is right
[TS]
00:47:02
◼
►
now more popular and so we had someone
[TS]
00:47:04
◼
►
actually write in to us about this this
[TS]
00:47:07
◼
►
is Daniel who said in addition to mvu
[TS]
00:47:08
◼
►
being faster there's lots of software
[TS]
00:47:10
◼
►
now that uses GPU acceleration but only
[TS]
00:47:12
◼
►
nvidia so their application software
[TS]
00:47:15
◼
►
written it's accelerated for GPUs but
[TS]
00:47:18
◼
►
literally only accelerated by the NVIDIA
[TS]
00:47:19
◼
►
GPUs the examples gives us redshift and
[TS]
00:47:22
◼
►
my and 3d new plugins for new kiddie and
[TS]
00:47:25
◼
►
go ghosts on the 2d side so part of it
[TS]
00:47:28
◼
►
is like just market success that Nvidia
[TS]
00:47:31
◼
►
was able to convince software makers of
[TS]
00:47:32
◼
►
these big expensive for our obligations
[TS]
00:47:34
◼
►
to write their software to only be
[TS]
00:47:36
◼
►
accelerated by Nvidia cards so that
[TS]
00:47:39
◼
►
forget about who's faster forever who's
[TS]
00:47:40
◼
►
bet has better cards or whatever if it
[TS]
00:47:42
◼
►
literally won't work with AMD graphics
[TS]
00:47:46
◼
►
that's bad like it'll you know but to
[TS]
00:47:47
◼
►
run in an accelerated mode and then
[TS]
00:47:49
◼
►
secondarily if you're into games there
[TS]
00:47:51
◼
►
are lots of other applications chances
[TS]
00:47:53
◼
►
are that right now and video sells the
[TS]
00:47:55
◼
►
absolute fastest card they'll run
[TS]
00:47:57
◼
►
whatever your GPU thing is the fastest
[TS]
00:47:59
◼
►
that's why we had the question a while
[TS]
00:48:01
◼
►
back was saying if the Mac proto's and
[TS]
00:48:02
◼
►
support Nvidia is it a failure or
[TS]
00:48:03
◼
►
whatever I don't think it is for the
[TS]
00:48:06
◼
►
most part and you know if you have to
[TS]
00:48:10
◼
►
use one of the application there's only
[TS]
00:48:11
◼
►
so acceleration video chance is good you
[TS]
00:48:13
◼
►
haven't had a Mac in a long time because
[TS]
00:48:15
◼
►
for whatever reason I'm not sure what
[TS]
00:48:17
◼
►
the reason is but for whatever reason
[TS]
00:48:18
◼
►
Mac's have not shipped with NVIDIA GPUs
[TS]
00:48:21
◼
►
either standard or optional for a long
[TS]
00:48:24
◼
►
time now so it's not as if people are
[TS]
00:48:26
◼
►
out there using Mac's with Nvidia
[TS]
00:48:28
◼
►
graphics card waiting to upgrade all
[TS]
00:48:30
◼
►
these people are using these programs
[TS]
00:48:31
◼
►
presumably are already using pcs anyway
[TS]
00:48:34
◼
►
that's why I think people are concerned
[TS]
00:48:37
◼
►
about the Nvidia situation because part
[TS]
00:48:39
◼
►
of the promise of the Mac Pro is it's a
[TS]
00:48:41
◼
►
modular system and it's upgradable but
[TS]
00:48:43
◼
►
how upgradable is it really if you can
[TS]
00:48:46
◼
►
you can only ever put in new and the
[TS]
00:48:48
◼
►
graphics cards I mean that's great like
[TS]
00:48:50
◼
►
lets you extend life in the machine like
[TS]
00:48:52
◼
►
we said before but there was a time that
[TS]
00:48:55
◼
►
mitts on Mac users may remember when you
[TS]
00:48:57
◼
►
could buy a Mac like the one sitting
[TS]
00:48:59
◼
►
next to me right now they could run
[TS]
00:49:01
◼
►
cards from both of those manufacturers
[TS]
00:49:03
◼
►
and that time was good and we would like
[TS]
00:49:05
◼
►
that harm to return yeah I think I mean
[TS]
00:49:08
◼
►
some other angles to consider I mean so
[TS]
00:49:09
◼
►
first of all the the explanation of why
[TS]
00:49:11
◼
►
we have not seen any new Macs with
[TS]
00:49:15
◼
►
NVIDIA GPUs in something like three or
[TS]
00:49:18
◼
►
four years is possibly related to there
[TS]
00:49:22
◼
►
was a massive series of NVIDIA GPU
[TS]
00:49:24
◼
►
failures and MacBook Pros we heard
[TS]
00:49:27
◼
►
rumblings here and there from various
[TS]
00:49:28
◼
►
uncredible sources that like there might
[TS]
00:49:31
◼
►
be some kind of big political rift with
[TS]
00:49:32
◼
►
that between Apple and NVIDIA from that
[TS]
00:49:35
◼
►
time but it does certainly seem like
[TS]
00:49:38
◼
►
there is definitely like it is a choice
[TS]
00:49:41
◼
►
that Apple is making not to not to ship
[TS]
00:49:44
◼
►
an NVIDIA GPUs in all of their computers
[TS]
00:49:47
◼
►
since a few years ago it is not just
[TS]
00:49:50
◼
►
coincidence and on that issue though on
[TS]
00:49:52
◼
►
it being a choice which again I have
[TS]
00:49:54
◼
►
heard as well the weird part about it is
[TS]
00:49:56
◼
►
that modern Apple especially has always
[TS]
00:50:00
◼
►
been really enthusiastic but always
[TS]
00:50:02
◼
►
having two suppliers for everything that
[TS]
00:50:04
◼
►
it does like you know even just like
[TS]
00:50:06
◼
►
because if they get themselves in
[TS]
00:50:08
◼
►
situation when there's one they get into
[TS]
00:50:09
◼
►
something to a Qualcomm situation and
[TS]
00:50:11
◼
►
they're just like they need someone to
[TS]
00:50:13
◼
►
play off of but everything the RAM who's
[TS]
00:50:15
◼
►
manufacturing their systems on a chip
[TS]
00:50:16
◼
►
like SSDs screens best case Apple wants
[TS]
00:50:20
◼
►
to have two sources not just for
[TS]
00:50:22
◼
►
redundancy but so that you don't become
[TS]
00:50:25
◼
►
under the thumb of one like you could be
[TS]
00:50:26
◼
►
under the thumb of Qualcomm it's like
[TS]
00:50:28
◼
►
who else you gonna go to no one else can
[TS]
00:50:29
◼
►
make your radio chips hahaha like so it
[TS]
00:50:32
◼
►
would be who Happel to go to both of
[TS]
00:50:35
◼
►
them and play them off each other who
[TS]
00:50:36
◼
►
knows maybe that's exactly what they're
[TS]
00:50:37
◼
►
doing in anybody it just keeps losing
[TS]
00:50:38
◼
►
losing the contract but from the outside
[TS]
00:50:40
◼
►
it just seems like they are now a single
[TS]
00:50:44
◼
►
single vendor source for their GPUs and
[TS]
00:50:46
◼
►
that can't be healthy I mean and maybe
[TS]
00:50:48
◼
►
the long-term plan is gonna make its own
[TS]
00:50:50
◼
►
GPUs because it's a core part of their
[TS]
00:50:52
◼
►
business and they kind of have been
[TS]
00:50:53
◼
►
doing that on the you know the portable
[TS]
00:50:55
◼
►
side was it business the first one
[TS]
00:50:56
◼
►
that's all their own GPU with no
[TS]
00:50:59
◼
►
imagination tech I have
[TS]
00:51:00
◼
►
leave so yeah but they haven't done that
[TS]
00:51:02
◼
►
on the Mac and they probably won't pick
[TS]
00:51:03
◼
►
us for all the reasons that we've
[TS]
00:51:04
◼
►
discussed before about investment in the
[TS]
00:51:05
◼
►
Mac but it just it just still seems
[TS]
00:51:07
◼
►
weird to me that it seems it's a much
[TS]
00:51:09
◼
►
more natural fit for apples business
[TS]
00:51:11
◼
►
practices to be supporting both but they
[TS]
00:51:12
◼
►
haven't recently well I think there's
[TS]
00:51:14
◼
►
there's a couple angles here I mean
[TS]
00:51:15
◼
►
number one like you might be right like
[TS]
00:51:17
◼
►
AMD just might be winning all these bids
[TS]
00:51:18
◼
►
because it certainly seems clear that
[TS]
00:51:21
◼
►
Apple has a pretty good relationship
[TS]
00:51:23
◼
►
with AMD and for things like if you look
[TS]
00:51:25
◼
►
at the 2013 trash trashcan Mac Pro those
[TS]
00:51:28
◼
►
were like total custom GPUs like just
[TS]
00:51:31
◼
►
for that that AMD made for made you know
[TS]
00:51:33
◼
►
to add apples order so like there's
[TS]
00:51:36
◼
►
clearly like a lot of a good
[TS]
00:51:37
◼
►
relationship there where like AMD will
[TS]
00:51:39
◼
►
probably make Apple pretty much whatever
[TS]
00:51:41
◼
►
they asked for which is and and the the
[TS]
00:51:44
◼
►
pricing that they give Apple appears to
[TS]
00:51:46
◼
►
be pretty good like if you look at the
[TS]
00:51:48
◼
►
workstation GPU pricing that that AMD
[TS]
00:51:50
◼
►
charges and then you look at what Apple
[TS]
00:51:52
◼
►
gives you in like the stock
[TS]
00:51:54
◼
►
configuration of the Mac Pro and the
[TS]
00:51:56
◼
►
iMac Pro it does seem like AMD is giving
[TS]
00:51:59
◼
►
Apple a pretty good deal so it could
[TS]
00:52:00
◼
►
just be that but they're you're you're
[TS]
00:52:02
◼
►
right that Apple does have two suppliers
[TS]
00:52:04
◼
►
for a lot of things one of the big ones
[TS]
00:52:06
◼
►
that they don't is Intel for their CPUs
[TS]
00:52:09
◼
►
and I may be you know ironically the the
[TS]
00:52:14
◼
►
winner of that bid otherwise would be
[TS]
00:52:15
◼
►
AMD but but you know maybe they have a
[TS]
00:52:19
◼
►
similar relationship with AMD on the GPU
[TS]
00:52:23
◼
►
side that they have with Intel on the
[TS]
00:52:25
◼
►
CPU side which is kind of this like you
[TS]
00:52:28
◼
►
know assured exclusivity and it's
[TS]
00:52:30
◼
►
changed for their good relationship with
[TS]
00:52:32
◼
►
AMD and you know the difference is that
[TS]
00:52:34
◼
►
Intel can give them the very best chips
[TS]
00:52:36
◼
►
of that kind in the world or at AMD at
[TS]
00:52:38
◼
►
various times cannot and although this
[TS]
00:52:40
◼
►
also brings in a topic they kept getting
[TS]
00:52:42
◼
►
pushed down in the show notes but the
[TS]
00:52:43
◼
►
several weeks ago or months ago deal
[TS]
00:52:45
◼
►
where Intel is bundling AMD GPUs and
[TS]
00:52:49
◼
►
sort of like not on the same die but
[TS]
00:52:51
◼
►
like in the same package yeah yeah there
[TS]
00:52:52
◼
►
and so that's an interesting synergy
[TS]
00:52:54
◼
►
between apples to favored vendors and
[TS]
00:52:56
◼
►
and you know Intel like it makes some
[TS]
00:52:59
◼
►
sense to me that was going with Intel
[TS]
00:53:00
◼
►
that if am you know there's there's that
[TS]
00:53:02
◼
►
relationship and there's the you know
[TS]
00:53:04
◼
►
IBM even more so than AMD has proven
[TS]
00:53:07
◼
►
that they will make one-off custom chips
[TS]
00:53:08
◼
►
for Apple like in the MacBook Air and
[TS]
00:53:09
◼
►
the back in the old days and it's a lot
[TS]
00:53:12
◼
►
of speculation that
[TS]
00:53:14
◼
►
the reason Intelli put so much work into
[TS]
00:53:16
◼
►
its internal GPUs with the embedded dram
[TS]
00:53:19
◼
►
and all that stuff is because that's
[TS]
00:53:20
◼
►
what Apple wanted them to do so
[TS]
00:53:22
◼
►
I'm sure Apple likes your relationship
[TS]
00:53:24
◼
►
where they have a big say in what
[TS]
00:53:25
◼
►
products get generated and honestly if
[TS]
00:53:29
◼
►
the the competitor Intel is not
[TS]
00:53:31
◼
►
particularly competitive and we get back
[TS]
00:53:34
◼
►
to again Apple probably wants to just
[TS]
00:53:35
◼
►
make its own chips if it ever if it ever
[TS]
00:53:37
◼
►
comes to that but the difference in that
[TS]
00:53:40
◼
►
scenario is there is no software that
[TS]
00:53:43
◼
►
only runs accelerated on the MDD PMD
[TS]
00:53:47
◼
►
CPUs right
[TS]
00:53:48
◼
►
like it's not it's not the Nvidia
[TS]
00:53:50
◼
►
situation where there's a whole classes
[TS]
00:53:51
◼
►
of software that are written to CUDA and
[TS]
00:53:54
◼
►
and and you know overall like there is a
[TS]
00:53:57
◼
►
huge difference in the results here
[TS]
00:53:58
◼
►
because you know as you as you briefly
[TS]
00:53:59
◼
►
alluded to like Intel if you are Intel
[TS]
00:54:02
◼
►
exclusive for your PC CPUs you're fine
[TS]
00:54:05
◼
►
because the vast majority of the time
[TS]
00:54:08
◼
►
Intel is the leader in that race usually
[TS]
00:54:11
◼
►
by a pretty big margin AMD CPU business
[TS]
00:54:14
◼
►
has been second run basically sends like
[TS]
00:54:16
◼
►
the Pentium for like it had a good run
[TS]
00:54:19
◼
►
there for a little while where it was
[TS]
00:54:20
◼
►
king but then it wasn't so if if it was
[TS]
00:54:23
◼
►
the other way around if Apple had had
[TS]
00:54:25
◼
►
this great relationship with AMD for the
[TS]
00:54:27
◼
►
CPUs and would never used Intel CPUs
[TS]
00:54:30
◼
►
they'd have a pretty big problem that
[TS]
00:54:33
◼
►
they used wouldn't be very competitive a
[TS]
00:54:34
◼
►
lot of the time and the problem is they
[TS]
00:54:36
◼
►
now have that problem on the GPU side
[TS]
00:54:39
◼
►
run on the GPU side I think they do ok
[TS]
00:54:41
◼
►
with power per watt but they don't have
[TS]
00:54:44
◼
►
the the sheer performance edge that they
[TS]
00:54:47
◼
►
that they would have if NVIDIA was their
[TS]
00:54:50
◼
►
only supplier or if they would use both
[TS]
00:54:52
◼
►
like they used to you know it used to be
[TS]
00:54:53
◼
►
that like you know every generation of
[TS]
00:54:55
◼
►
like a Mac or a MacBook Pro like it they
[TS]
00:54:58
◼
►
would like alternate between which
[TS]
00:54:59
◼
►
vendor they were supplying just whoever
[TS]
00:55:00
◼
►
had like the most compelling one that
[TS]
00:55:02
◼
►
they could get in a volume or whatever
[TS]
00:55:04
◼
►
else like but by going seemingly am the
[TS]
00:55:07
◼
►
only for GPUs for the least the last few
[TS]
00:55:09
◼
►
years I think it is really starting to
[TS]
00:55:11
◼
►
hurt them especially at the high end
[TS]
00:55:13
◼
►
I've heard from so many people who see
[TS]
00:55:16
◼
►
the news about the iMac Pro or the Mac
[TS]
00:55:19
◼
►
Pro and just write it off as sorry we
[TS]
00:55:22
◼
►
can't do that because it doesn't support
[TS]
00:55:23
◼
►
CUDA and the only thing that that my
[TS]
00:55:27
◼
►
be an escape valve here is external GPU
[TS]
00:55:31
◼
►
support you know I think with
[TS]
00:55:33
◼
►
Thunderbolt 3 now supporting external
[TS]
00:55:36
◼
►
GPU boxes that might be their answer
[TS]
00:55:38
◼
►
like it might it might it might be like
[TS]
00:55:40
◼
►
we're gonna keep using AMD for our main
[TS]
00:55:42
◼
►
GPUs but if you're a pro customer and
[TS]
00:55:44
◼
►
you want a CUDA card for your work maybe
[TS]
00:55:47
◼
►
putting it in a thunderbolt chassis is
[TS]
00:55:50
◼
►
close enough the benchmarks still
[TS]
00:55:53
◼
►
especially for these applications that
[TS]
00:55:54
◼
►
need this like that's where the
[TS]
00:55:56
◼
►
bandwidth actually does come in doesn't
[TS]
00:55:57
◼
►
come in in games probably if you're just
[TS]
00:55:59
◼
►
interested in games you can probably get
[TS]
00:56:00
◼
►
away with any GPU but for all these
[TS]
00:56:03
◼
►
fancy computational things actually send
[TS]
00:56:05
◼
►
a lot of data back and forth Thunderbolt
[TS]
00:56:07
◼
►
isn't you know it's not even close to
[TS]
00:56:09
◼
►
the bandwidth of an internal card
[TS]
00:56:11
◼
►
I think bare feets also has done
[TS]
00:56:12
◼
►
benchmarks with that to like you know
[TS]
00:56:14
◼
►
let's try a MacBook Pro with an e GPU
[TS]
00:56:17
◼
►
versus the iMac pro with this internal
[TS]
00:56:19
◼
►
versus a good old cheese grater with
[TS]
00:56:22
◼
►
some $900 Nvidia graphic card shoved
[TS]
00:56:25
◼
►
into this ancient internals from 20 L 10
[TS]
00:56:27
◼
►
or 11 and the stupid cheese grater wins
[TS]
00:56:30
◼
►
every time because it's an internal GPU
[TS]
00:56:32
◼
►
with more bandwidth than everybody else
[TS]
00:56:33
◼
►
and it's got the fastest the latest card
[TS]
00:56:36
◼
►
from Nvidia and so like I guess I've
[TS]
00:56:38
◼
►
been the person originally asked the
[TS]
00:56:39
◼
►
question would the Mac probably fail
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00:56:40
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product I don't think so I mean it's
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silly that Apple won't support it if
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it's like some weird political reason or
[TS]
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whatever but whatever you know if you
[TS]
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buy a computer with the fastest
[TS]
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available GPU next year it's not the
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fastest GPU anymore and so if you just
[TS]
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pretend every Mac Pro you're buying is
[TS]
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already year old as long as you can
[TS]
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either a upgrade it so that every single
[TS]
00:57:02
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year you can buy a faster GPU or be that
[TS]
00:57:05
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Apple revises it and so every year if
[TS]
00:57:08
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you bought a new one it has a faster GPU
[TS]
00:57:10
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in it you like the worst situation is
[TS]
00:57:11
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they they put it out with a competitive
[TS]
00:57:13
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pretty fast GPU that may actually by the
[TS]
00:57:15
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way be faster in your particular thing
[TS]
00:57:17
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because if you're not running games and
[TS]
00:57:18
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you're not running a CUDA acceleration
[TS]
00:57:20
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sometimes the AMD GPU is the fastest
[TS]
00:57:22
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really depends on what you're doing but
[TS]
00:57:24
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the trick is you need some way to stay
[TS]
00:57:26
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on that performance path the fact you
[TS]
00:57:28
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can't have the fastest one then just
[TS]
00:57:30
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never offer another GPU for three years
[TS]
00:57:32
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and not have it be upgradable so the
[TS]
00:57:34
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people need some way to every year reap
[TS]
00:57:36
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the benefits of the embarrassing
[TS]
00:57:37
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parallelism
[TS]
00:57:38
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of the graphics world and that's that's
[TS]
00:57:41
◼
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what the Mac Pro has to deliver if you
[TS]
00:57:43
◼
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can't deliver nvidia that's a bummer for
[TS]
00:57:46
◼
►
some people but what it has to deliver
[TS]
00:57:48
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is the ability to get back on the GPU
[TS]
00:57:51
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train you can put in the all aboard
[TS]
00:57:55
◼
►
screen from crazy train right here Marco
[TS]
00:57:57
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►
I was going to put on back on the train
[TS]
00:58:04
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by fish no I do not approve of that
[TS]
00:58:13
◼
►
crazy train every podcast needs a viper
[TS]
00:58:16
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►
slap we are brought to you this week by
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00:58:24
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00:58:33
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00:58:35
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make websites ourself without using
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Squarespace we know how to like get a
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server set up and put a CMS on there or
[TS]
00:58:43
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build our own CMS from scratch but then
[TS]
00:58:45
◼
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we also for honest with ourselves we
[TS]
00:58:47
◼
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know that that never takes as fast as we
[TS]
00:58:49
◼
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want it to and there's always additional
[TS]
00:58:51
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overhead to managing it that we probably
[TS]
00:58:53
◼
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shouldn't need to worry about things
[TS]
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like security updates and patches and
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00:59:00
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and if we get you know a prominent link
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from somewhere and everything else and
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the reality is with Squarespace you
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00:59:06
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00:59:09
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time is to just go to Squarespace make
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00:59:17
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a store or just a website just for fun
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to show off so if you what you like or
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00:59:21
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what your business is make that website
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00:59:23
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with Squarespace instead of doing it
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00:59:25
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yourself through any other kind of means
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00:59:26
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because pretty much everything else
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00:59:27
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honestly is not a good use of your time
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you should be focused on your business
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or your project or your hobby instead of
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Squarespace give you that luxury
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00:59:44
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00:59:47
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and backups and security and caching and
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00:59:49
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00:59:55
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00:59:57
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up make sure to use offer code ATP to
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02:00:03
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like I I'm not afraid if I'm talking to
[TS]
02:00:07
◼
►
my Apple I'm not afraid of like you know
[TS]
02:00:10
◼
►
if I say the wrong thing or if I or
[TS]
02:00:12
◼
►
afterwards if I'm on a podcast and I say
[TS]
02:00:13
◼
►
the wrong thing like are they gonna cut
[TS]
02:00:16
◼
►
off you know my PR accent of something
[TS]
02:00:18
◼
►
because until this moment I didn't have
[TS]
02:00:20
◼
►
PR accident a PR
[TS]
02:00:22
◼
►
I have nothing to lose and also
[TS]
02:00:25
◼
►
everything in my job everything in my
[TS]
02:00:27
◼
►
career my life to this point has not
[TS]
02:00:29
◼
►
needed PR access and so like it's one
[TS]
02:00:32
◼
►
thing like if I was like the verge and I
[TS]
02:00:34
◼
►
got cut off from PR that's a much bigger
[TS]
02:00:36
◼
►
problem for me to get cut off from PR I
[TS]
02:00:39
◼
►
don't it doesn't really hurt me much and
[TS]
02:00:41
◼
►
so I'm not afraid to be honest and to
[TS]
02:00:45
◼
►
say when things are bad and and and most
[TS]
02:00:48
◼
►
good journalists you know they try to
[TS]
02:00:49
◼
►
maintain that same balance even even if
[TS]
02:00:51
◼
►
their access does depend on that because
[TS]
02:00:52
◼
►
you know even if their access does or
[TS]
02:00:55
◼
►
does not their credibility depends on
[TS]
02:00:56
◼
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them being balanced and being fair and
[TS]
02:00:59
◼
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being willing to criticize when it's
[TS]