Roderick on the Line

Ep. 276: "The Authenticity Wars"

 

  they're the strokes their songs all [TS]

  sound like the stroke you sure you write [TS]

  the intro Interpol their songs all sound [TS]

  like and but wouldn't those songs come [TS]

  on you're like hey that's got to be the [TS]

  new Interpol song whereas the long [TS]

  winter's music all sounds like who the [TS]

  fuck knows right I mean the only thing [TS]

  we don't have a ska song there's a [TS]

  there's an everything it's an everything [TS]

  everything sound and that if you're [TS]

  trying to make a band popular is a bad [TS]

  strategy I mean the mountain goats every [TS]

  song sounds like the mountain goats yeah [TS]

  you're never gonna listen to a mountain [TS]

  goat song and go wow is this like is [TS]

  this some kind of orc pop is this the [TS]

  Smashing Pumpkins so it's a it was a bad [TS]

  what I never did and this is the other [TS]

  thing right I'd had a lot of these mixed [TS]

  ideas like I looked at somebody like Ted [TS]

  Leo and I admired the fact that he [TS]

  stayed true to his school but my school [TS]

  was touch her own hair my school was not [TS]

  be like sound like your influences it [TS]

  was cut your own hair and so right [TS]

  before every single photo shoot that we [TS]

  took I cut my own hair which means that [TS]

  every photo of us I looked terrible [TS]

  as I did it I thought that people would [TS]

  look at the pictures and they would [TS]

  identify a kind of truth about me like [TS]

  oh that guy is true but people don't [TS]

  look at it and say that they say why is [TS]

  he did I mean why does he have that [TS]

  haircut yeah that's a terrible haircut [TS]

  and so what I thought I was [TS]

  communicating like I thought I was [TS]

  communicating in the song cinnamon this [TS]

  whole story about the baader-meinhof [TS]

  gang but I didn't give any evidence of [TS]

  it right and so I'm cutting my own hair [TS]

  before every photo shoot because I [TS]

  believe in the principle but the prints [TS]

  Paul does not convey see what you're [TS]

  saying [TS]

  people couldn't look at you and know [TS]

  that you're a vegan no do you know [TS]

  similarly like there's something there's [TS]

  something in your cred or know that your [TS]

  straightedge [TS]

  they couldn't like look at you and be [TS]

  able to glean let you have a big ax on [TS]

  your hand right well and the thing about [TS]

  Ted is that he had a big V for vegan on [TS]

  his shirt and he talked about it in [TS]

  every interview and what I had was like [TS]

  you know I had a suit like the Riddler [TS]

  cover with question marks every single [TS]

  tour it was like this tour I'm wearing a [TS]

  striped tie and I look like I'm in the [TS]

  Decembrists and this tour I'm wearing a [TS]

  gold leotard top hats for everybody [TS]

  I started out one tour at where I was [TS]

  like I'm just gonna wear this tracksuit [TS]

  through the whole tool all three of my [TS]

  band mates were like when are you gonna [TS]

  change out of your pajamas and I said [TS]

  it's very comfortable but like what I [TS]

  you know I looked like I was in the [TS]

  happy Monday so there was no consistency [TS]

  and it was all it was all in my head [TS]

  that I was doing something though that [TS]

  people were gonna pick up on but what I [TS]

  was really doing was this like it's just [TS]

  this eclecticism that all people picked [TS]

  up on was wait is that the guy from LCD [TS]

  Soundsystem except he is except he's [TS]

  wearing like loafers and a bowler like [TS]

  that doesn't he's dressed like Clockwork [TS]

  Orange and it doesn't make any sense and [TS]

  that and that's I think true in them in [TS]

  the songs too like I every song I just I [TS]

  started completely fresh as like a new [TS]

  experiment which I thought was a great [TS]

  premise but when you listen to the [TS]

  records you're like to never know what's [TS]

  coming next what's coming next is the [TS]

  baseline gonna be played on a tambourine [TS]

  like don't know so what from that is to [TS]

  be gleaned [TS]

  because there's a lot of angles to that [TS]

  yeah no no I mean if you're saying like [TS]

  there's a lot of 1:1 angle is you you [TS]

  thought you were going for something and [TS]

  it didn't come across another could be a [TS]

  lesson for the youths right about about [TS]

  how to how to do your thing mm-hmm do [TS]

  you feel that part of the success of [TS]

  other bands is owed to the fact that [TS]

  they didn't do stuff like cut their hair [TS]

  before a photo shoot they went and got [TS]

  it professionally cut at great expense [TS]

  and socially cut by a professional and [TS]

  and told the person will you cut my hair [TS]

  so that I look cool they probably [TS]

  brought in a picture of somebody and [TS]

  said this can you make me look like Ron [TS]

  Wood in 1972 [TS]

  sure and you know and I was sitting in [TS]

  the mirror going hmm that's not even [TS]

  maybe I should cut up the other side a [TS]

  little bit oh it's not even again maybe [TS]

  I should cut it up the other side a [TS]

  little bit and then pretty soon you know [TS]

  like I look I look like a like a girl in [TS]

  college who's experimenting I always [TS]

  wondered what would happen I look back [TS]

  sometimes I wonder if in when I was 16 [TS]

  if I had just bought a leather jacket a [TS]

  good one that fit me and it had just won [TS]

  that leather jacket all that like that [TS]

  would be your thing I had that leather [TS]

  jacket how was that guy that had that [TS]

  leather jacket that the lot it would [TS]

  have just solved a lot of problems [TS]

  between the age of 16 and 26 yeah [TS]

  because you wouldn't have to think about [TS]

  it you just wear that jacket oh you [TS]

  could be like I'm thinking like a [TS]

  college people show up for college and [TS]

  they became they become known for their [TS]

  one thing like it could be skateboards [TS]

  Scott or you know it could be a Scott [TS]

  poor or snake Amy I've told you about [TS]

  something game either different Amy's [TS]

  and in the caning of things there was [TS]

  like snake Amy she's gonna have the [TS]

  snake she had a pet snake she would can [TS]

  carry around with her right and so I see [TS]

  then in this case the leather jacket [TS]

  would be your snake and if you picked [TS]

  hardcore as your sound like hardcore is [TS]

  well it's right in the name it's [TS]

  hardcore [TS]

  right so it's all hand on there and so [TS]

  and the sound of hardcore is very [TS]

  distinctive and you can learn it and so [TS]

  then you are if you stick in the way [TS]

  that we're describing if you stick [TS]

  around long enough in hardcore you [TS]

  become part of hardcore you're no longer [TS]

  just some aspirant you are part of [TS]

  hardcore and once you become part of it [TS]

  then what you did when you were young is [TS]

  now part of the history of hardcore no [TS]

  you were there you were in the trenches [TS]

  that's right and you got stories to tell [TS]

  you got stories and at the time there [TS]

  were bigger bands than you you were just [TS]

  like you know just gutting it out but [TS]

  now when those bands go away and you're [TS]

  still around now you kind of have [TS]

  written the history of hardcore [TS]

  something's right and the victors write [TS]

  the history mm-hmm but if you start out [TS]

  and you're just like I'm just you know [TS]

  I'm just like Oh our band is is [TS]

  different we're on our own we're doing [TS]

  our own thing and you don't invent a [TS]

  genre which is very hard very very hard [TS]

  to do mm-hmm [TS]

  when people look back they're like well [TS]

  you weren't really part of any scene [TS]

  back then so it's not like you rewrote [TS]

  the history of that scene you just [TS]

  floundered it the whole time and you [TS]

  kind of clamored up on to whatever like [TS]

  raft you managed to get on grace and [TS]

  then the raft went over the falls this [TS]

  is like what people I mean you know I [TS]

  don't want to cast aspersions but as you [TS]

  and I both know there's a handful of [TS]

  characters who keep reappearing in every [TS]

  music documentary oh yeah right [TS]

  Klosterman [TS]

  role he's they're never you get Dave [TS]

  Grohl you get thirst and more or like [TS]

  this like we're still talking to the [TS]

  Moody Blues an awful lot these days [TS]

  things to tell people you know people [TS]

  feel very strongly about the Moody Blues [TS]

  I don't understand that maybe I just [TS]

  don't know I maybe I'm just not deep [TS]

  enough into their catalogue I don't [TS]

  think they have a deep catalogue [TS]

  but on the scene I'll sit around I'll [TS]

  sit around and and I'll watch me a [TS]

  Genesis concert from 1972 that's just [TS]

  the thing I'll do I'll just sit there [TS]

  and watch a low-resolution like [TS]

  something from like like I don't know [TS]

  something around nursery crime or [TS]

  Foxtrot and I'll just watch I'll just [TS]

  watch the fucking Genesis concert magic [TS]

  it's it's so weird and so good they were [TS]

  such a good band and most people just [TS]

  look I think it was like I dressed as a [TS]

  flower but like they really brought it [TS]

  they brought it and they toured the shit [TS]

  out of it and they were just I mean I [TS]

  don't know what your feelings are about [TS]

  Genesis but like still Collins was a [TS]

  really good drummer and a really good [TS]

  singer and you know and Steve Hackett [TS]

  that plays that guitar like ringing a [TS]

  bell [TS]

  yeah like Moody Blues I don't find [TS]

  myself watching Moody Blues concerts is [TS]

  that bad on me should I be like a gentle [TS]

  giant should I be expanding my catalogue [TS]

  more by the way I think I'm more [TS]

  familiar with gentle giant I know [TS]

  probably 2 or 3 moody blues songs but I [TS]

  think I'm probably more familiar with [TS]

  gentle giant isn't Pam you'll figure [TS]

  that out [TS]

  I feel like Moody Blues I am somebody [TS]

  who cannot be mad at the Moody Blues in [TS]

  the same way that I still live written [TS]

  never meaning to send yeah I still [TS]

  listen to Richard Harris sing about how [TS]

  he left his cake out in the rain oh sure [TS]

  and so again that's a good performance [TS]

  that's a pretty good performance it's [TS]

  great you know I mean I'll listen to [TS]

  Mannheim Steamroller Christmas every [TS]

  year not because I want to but because [TS]

  my sister insists that says heavy metal [TS]

  Christmas stuff now who's that I don't I [TS]

  don't want to hear that Christmas songs [TS]

  I have he's a transect burying railroad [TS]

  it might be heavy metal Christmas I [TS]

  wouldn't follow that I wouldn't it's [TS]

  excruciating but you know what Moody [TS]

  Blues was was they were like they were [TS]

  like the guys following Pink Floyd and [TS]

  they were they were taking in Floyd and [TS]

  they were making it a little bit more [TS]

  palatable and I'm not I don't disagree [TS]

  with that I'm not argue with them but [TS]

  therapy lot there's a lot of anger at [TS]

  people or at Moody Blues [TS]

  and and I don't you know it's sort of [TS]

  like y-yeah no no no no don't get me [TS]

  wrong I don't mean to be slacking off on [TS]

  no MIDI please I'm not familiar enough [TS]

  to know but but that's so now what I'm [TS]

  thinking of god I can't believe I'm [TS]

  saying this on the show do you ever [TS]

  watch the television show Portlandia say [TS]

  no there's a recent episode wait a [TS]

  minute I I love to go watch Portlandia [TS]

  sketches yes online and partly it is [TS]

  because I have very very good feelings [TS]

  about Fred Armisen yeah I don't want too [TS]

  much but yeah he's he's very he's very [TS]

  talented and his eyes alone are very [TS]

  very funny we are currently in geing [TS]

  this program at our house he sent me a [TS]

  very nice email one time and just [TS]

  apropos of nothing based on his own just [TS]

  generous nests and and I so about the [TS]

  management uh-uh no just like just out [TS]

  not out of the blue but he was you know [TS]

  he he felt he felt at that time that I [TS]

  could use or not no no I don't think he [TS]

  even thought that way he just became [TS]

  aware of me and wanted to send me an [TS]

  email that's the best kind of message to [TS]

  receive . that is the best message it [TS]

  was basically like he turned a corner he [TS]

  bumped into me and he said yay [TS]

  you know what you're too big for this [TS]

  town like he gave me a little he gave me [TS]

  just a little like hey i became aware of [TS]

  you and i just wanted to say i really [TS]

  like what I just like your thing and so [TS]

  I don't want to hear any bad things and [TS]

  then in my shirt you look weird oh yeah [TS]

  - there's two main street performers [TS]

  that I can think of that and this is [TS]

  neither of these as anything too obscure [TS]

  but there are two people where I just [TS]

  look at them and I just start laughing [TS]

  I'm gonna be honest with you Will [TS]

  Ferrell he is just naturally very funny [TS]

  Will Ferrell and a Fred Armisen they [TS]

  both have very funny eyes but like even [TS]

  before they're doing anything their eyes [TS]

  are just funny I have never gotten into [TS]

  wolf bear it's totally understandable [TS]

  totally understand at the heart of it [TS]

  will Ferrell is a weirdo yes that's the [TS]

  great part like he he gets known for [TS]

  these bits in the cowbell and whatnot [TS]

  but like [TS]

  the only reason I mentioned this is [TS]

  their I don't know why I'm telling you [TS]

  this I should cut this out but two or [TS]

  three episodes ago on Portlandia there's [TS]

  a character running character on the [TS]

  show named spike who's like the punk [TS]

  rock guy who's in his you know 50s and [TS]

  spike decides it's time it's time to [TS]

  speak truth to power it's time to get [TS]

  his old band riot spray back together [TS]

  and we know he's like this he's this you [TS]

  know crusty punk rocker and it's a riot [TS]

  spray it turns out this is so great [TS]

  it's Henry Rollins from like he looks [TS]

  like a guy you would just see at Whole [TS]

  Foods [TS]

  he's he's a you know he's a painted man [TS]

  does he just kind of look like a guy [TS]

  you'd see at Whole Foods well so Chris [TS]

  moved to the most rural place in [TS]

  Washington in in western Washington I [TS]

  should say there are rural places in [TS]

  Eastern Washington that are very rural [TS]

  you can get out there where you come [TS]

  over the come over the rise and there's [TS]

  a happen abandoned houses like Second [TS]

  Amendment country it's it's yeah it's [TS]

  what it's uh it's the high plains but in [TS]

  in the west of Washington there are a [TS]

  lot of places where it just rains all [TS]

  the time and the main the main cash crop [TS]

  is cranberries and there are a lot of [TS]

  fishermen that are the kind of fishermen [TS]

  that just every time they go out they [TS]

  may not come back you know the kind of [TS]

  Deadliest Catch they're though they're [TS]

  the real crazy ones the ones whose eyes [TS]

  are permanently squinty and the wind [TS]

  blows all the time and there are there [TS]

  shellfish people and they're very [TS]

  shellfish but he moved down there and [TS]

  bought some land and I know that [TS]

  territory pretty well and I can only [TS]

  imagine even if you buy the hillsides [TS]

  like the ground is always soggy right [TS]

  you can never you never really standing [TS]

  on hard ground you [TS]

  really I bet you really gotta want to [TS]

  live there well but but it's kind of [TS]

  where he grew up like out in Aberdeen it [TS]

  this is this the same country okay [TS]

  Aberdeen's were Nirvana started right [TS]

  yeah then there's no there's no economy [TS]

  I mean there used to be logging but it's [TS]

  that's mostly gone and he got so two [TS]

  things that he did that I think are [TS]

  great one he got his private pilot's [TS]

  license that's cool so every time he [TS]

  goes I approve of that as an aging rock [TS]

  star thing I approve of the pilot's [TS]

  license yeah it's great but I mean it's [TS]

  not like he has like a Learjet [TS]

  he drives a little you know a Cessna 172 [TS]

  like me and he when he comes to Seattle [TS]

  he flies he flies himself up there and [TS]

  it's typical it's great but the other [TS]

  thing he did was he got himself elected [TS]

  to the Grange the local like agriculture [TS]

  board which is cowboy Congress yeah it's [TS]

  effectively like the government for the [TS]

  region but all it is is they all get [TS]

  together in like a hall and argue about [TS]

  cranberries but he's like active in [TS]

  super local politics like the the local [TS]

  politics of this crazy little like way [TS]

  west super Lewis & Clark outpost out [TS]

  there when I was running for City [TS]

  Council he and I talked every week [TS]

  because he was really interested in [TS]

  Seattle politics and he really wanted he [TS]

  really wanted to help me and he really [TS]

  wanted to make sure that I had my [TS]

  platform straight and 90 percent of the [TS]

  the advice he gave me and the stuff he [TS]

  wanted to talk about was like dead-on [TS]

  all I always bring cupcakes that kind of [TS]

  thing well and just like you know you [TS]

  need to like I'm kidding but he knows [TS]

  where he speaks here because he's dealt [TS]

  with ornery characters in a in a small [TS]

  town well and people tried to get him to [TS]

  there was a brief moment where he was [TS]

  put up to run for a national office I [TS]

  think either either senator maybe [TS]

  governor I forget what it was but he was [TS]

  he was proposed as a politician himself [TS]

  and I think he got into the race and the [TS]

  first press conference he had somebody [TS]

  was like so when Kurt Cobain died of [TS]

  heroin did that affect your and he was [TS]

  like get me out of here yeah and so he [TS]

  said that's not for me that world is not [TS]

  where I want to be but you know right [TS]

  there that's a pretty good example I was [TS]

  talking about before yeah I think you [TS]

  kind of walked that path a little bit [TS]

  too whereas like I have a real clear [TS]

  idea of what I could do once I'm in here [TS]

  to help this stuff out but boy yeah I [TS]

  didn't fight about you you're the poster [TS]

  boy for that yeah the whole like oh if [TS]

  you don't love this grind doesn't know [TS]

  if you're good at the job and like I [TS]

  said at the time I think you know it's [TS]

  like to be a good city council person [TS]

  and to be good at running for City [TS]

  Council are two totally different jobs [TS]

  and you have to be good at both but to [TS]

  get elected all you have to be good at [TS]

  is the running part and then once you [TS]

  get in is when people decide or discover [TS]

  whether or not you're good at the other [TS]

  part they just concentrate on the [TS]

  Grafton greed there as there are a [TS]

  couple of people on the Seattle City [TS]

  Council that we're running when I was [TS]

  running and one in particular I guess [TS]

  who ran and won and then is now on there [TS]

  and I think that I don't know if it's [TS]

  the consensus yet but I think it's clear [TS]

  like oh not as good at it and might have [TS]

  been the revolution is not the same as [TS]

  running the Banana Republic right ten [TS]

  percent of the advice that Chris gave me [TS]

  was about cranberry farming which was [TS]

  not useful in running for office in [TS]

  Seattle did he sound wise he just had [TS]

  some stuff that he wanted to make sure [TS]

  was on my agenda we don't do as much [TS]

  cranberry stuff out here as you guys do [TS]

  down there it was not it was not a [TS]

  problem because the rest of it advice [TS]

  was so good [TS]

  but yeah he is a he is a very very very [TS]

  unusual man and [TS]

  you know like wonderful wonderful I told [TS]

  you about the event and where Duff [TS]

  McKagan asked him to come interview him [TS]

  for the release of Duff's book mm-hmm [TS]

  and they showed up and her husband on [TS]

  Portlandia I bet he has was the st. [TS]

  Vincent one time it's been suggested or [TS]

  it's been asked why I was never on [TS]

  Portlandia but you know what I didn't do [TS]

  I didn't network I didn't write Fred [TS]

  Armisen back man hey what's up just [TS]

  checking in hey man did I wrote it back [TS]

  and I said thank you so much for your [TS]

  kind letter and he said no problem and [TS]

  then I was like well I don't anything [TS]

  else to say to him I know I know it's [TS]

  not the worst we could write it back and [TS]

  say like I love your your eyes I almost [TS]

  I almost wrote the McElroy's this [TS]

  morning just to compliment them on their [TS]

  Casper add read and then it's like you [TS]

  know what they don't need that no but [TS]

  you know what they love hearing from you [TS]

  because they really admire you I really [TS]

  admire them but I thought you know what [TS]

  I shouldn't do that cuz when you when [TS]

  you contact somebody you make it about [TS]

  you unless you're somebody like a Fred [TS]

  Armisen who makes about the other person [TS]

  that's a nice thing you should write it [TS]

  you should write to Reggie Watts [TS]

  I've made all the compliments to Reggie [TS]

  that that our relationship needs for the [TS]

  rest of your relationship [TS]

  well maybe not maybe we'll do it [TS]

  together and I'll be like that was great [TS]

  Reggie mm-hmm but to write him now would [TS]

  be he would get the email and he'd be [TS]

  like I want what he was like you're [TS]

  right Fred Armisen now and say hey yeah [TS]

  I mean I think I think the seasons [TS]

  already done yeah yeah I know they're [TS]

  done they heard an interview with Carey [TS]

  yeah that's all over too late for me to [TS]

  be on Portlandia just as it's too late [TS]

  for me to be on a lot of things oh I [TS]

  should have although you know what [TS]

  remember it wasn't very long ago when I [TS]

  was saying I've never won an award Yeah [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah I mean it's kind of it's long I'm [TS]

  going lament for you is he's never gone [TS]

  one knows it always struck me that it [TS]

  wasn't that you felt like maybe I'm [TS]

  getting this wrong but it wasn't it [TS]

  precisely that you felt like you were do [TS]

  an award for a given thing but it was [TS]

  bigger subsets of like what the fuck of [TS]

  I know gotten award well or like yeah [TS]

  right well what would the award be but [TS]

  it seems like everybody's got it [TS]

  everything gets Awards people get awards [TS]

  right in lap you can get a webby you [TS]

  know I mean they're just giving this [TS]

  shit away [TS]

  so I'm sitting at home dude to do to [TS]

  doing and the Grammys were on and I knew [TS]

  it and so I was avoiding all media [TS]

  because who wants that who wants to be [TS]

  watching those I'm even on the Grammy [TS]

  Board I vote in the Grammys but I don't [TS]

  want to watch the show no no thanks but [TS]

  then I get a tweet or wait a minute no [TS]

  yeah well hmm maybe I got a letter from [TS]

  somebody I got a letter from somebody [TS]

  and maybe it was a me her so I anyway [TS]

  very same she's in on Portlandia yeah I [TS]

  know she was in was there other [TS]

  housekeeper she was great she was going [TS]

  I've seen that episode but I guess all [TS]

  of a sudden I'm texting with with Amy [TS]

  and she won the Grammy for Best folk [TS]

  album really that's amazing yeah [TS]

  yeah well I wouldn't have ever thought [TS]

  of her as good artist Yeah right right [TS]

  like what is a force yes some of their [TS]

  categories are a little bit longer the [TS]

  tooth but you know but so here she is [TS]

  best folk album and I realized as we're [TS]

  texting back and forth wait a minute I [TS]

  wrote a song on that album oh oh [TS]

  and so this isn't an example engraved [TS]

  somewhere well this is what I'm [TS]

  wondering [TS]

  mm-hmm because it's not an example of [TS]

  Amy's album winning best packaging which [TS]

  is there for the music for the folks it [TS]

  look nice it's there for the music and [TS]

  so I did not say to Amy where's my [TS]

  parade I contacted my people in at the [TS]

  Grammys and said asking for a friend [TS]

  if hypothetically a the record wins a [TS]

  Grammy and you had a Grammy for Best [TS]

  in Category and your friend has written [TS]

  a song on that record what's the story [TS]

  with that yeah I work I know that you [TS]

  don't get one of the little gramophones [TS]

  one of the gold gramophones but is there [TS]

  something and they came back and said [TS]

  yes you get a very nice from suitable [TS]

  for framing gold embossed certificates [TS]

  it says I won or I wrote a song on a [TS]

  Grammy winning album the devil you say [TS]

  and so all of a sudden it's not quite [TS]

  that I won exactly something no no it's [TS]

  worse but I did get a certificate mental [TS]

  illness a me man [TS]

  best folk album yeah she beat out Laura [TS]

  Marling off of recs the secret sisters [TS]

  and Cat Stevens and Cat Stevens [TS]

  he's called youssef slash Cat Stevens [TS]

  Kapow [TS]

  yeah the Laughing Apple is albums called [TS]

  so anyway certificate and then I was [TS]

  like well and the thing is Jonathan [TS]

  Coulton wrote a couple of songs on that [TS]

  record too so he's gonna get a [TS]

  certificate it's a little off it doesn't [TS]

  it doesn't kind of tarnish his shit [TS]

  and he actually his record was nominated [TS]

  for wait for it [TS]

  best packaging always good packaging and [TS]

  he lost my comic book from a fraction [TS]

  comic book I think so he's actually [TS]

  gonna get another certificate because [TS]

  you get a certificate that says I was [TS]

  nominated for a Grammy Award so if you [TS]

  know once again like his wall of [TS]

  diplomas is much better than mine [TS]

  see that makes it all so much worse he [TS]

  might even get nominated for a Tony [TS]

  because he because he wrote some songs [TS]

  on the new spongebob musical Oh jiminy [TS]

  but wait wait but that's neither here [TS]

  nor there what I'm saying is that as I'm [TS]

  contemplating receiving this certificate [TS]

  which I probably will not open that a [TS]

  few years ago Kathleen Edwards won a so [TS]

  can [TS]

  which is a Canadian a major Canadian [TS]

  that's not a canadian award it's a major [TS]

  award in canada and she wanted for a [TS]

  song that I have a co-write on and it [TS]

  was a generous it was generous on her [TS]

  part she was sitting in my living room [TS]

  and she was like I want you to listen to [TS]

  the song and tell me what you think and [TS]

  she played it for me on on my piano that [TS]

  that my cousin yells about as being a [TS]

  weird sounding piano and I said oh well [TS]

  that's a great song obviously you're a [TS]

  great songwriter and all I would do is [TS]

  change this to that and then you should [TS]

  add this and take that away and she gave [TS]

  you credit for that and she gave me [TS]

  songwriting credit honor and you know [TS]

  and it has a part that if you listen to [TS]

  the song when the part comes you go [TS]

  oh that's very mm-hmm John right but you [TS]

  know it's a wonder it's a wonderful song [TS]

  and it's her song entirely but she gave [TS]

  me the songwriting credit and so when [TS]

  the SOCAN Awards were announced and the [TS]

  award was for best song so it was [TS]

  announced that Kathleen Edwards and John [TS]

  Roderick won this award so can award [TS]

  damn but I was not in Canada and I think [TS]

  I don't well so I never wrote them a [TS]

  letter saying is there a certificate or [TS]

  something yeah do an article yeah just a [TS]

  curiosity just asking for a friend [TS]

  yeah and so now it occurs to me that I [TS]

  have another certificate of [TS]

  participation for a thing that I kind of [TS]

  was standing next to when someone won [TS]

  mm-hmm and now I'm starting to feel like [TS]

  well I'm half won a couple of things you [TS]

  should you should go back through your [TS]

  catalogue and figure out door you know [TS]

  just any of your relationships and [TS]

  figure out what what else are you owed [TS]

  well you know I did sing the background [TS]

  harmonies Transatlanticism transplant [TS]

  official notes on we'll get one [TS]

  - is that gonna make it worse so sure so [TS]

  here's what happened Shawn sang on [TS]

  several of the songs well maybe not [TS]

  several a handful he sang on three or [TS]

  something songs on that record Shawn [TS]

  does have a gold record on his wall from [TS]

  trans Atlantis's Oh God [TS]

  now guess who doesn't that's right I [TS]

  don't have one and I think it was in the [TS]

  when they're sitting there with the [TS]

  notepad out who do we send these to [TS]

  Shaunie well Shawn was very helpful he [TS]

  sang on several songs he pops right to [TS]

  the top of the list and let's see if we [TS]

  got to give one to the producer and [TS]

  fixer and the but Josh and Emily got one [TS]

  oh yeah yeah that's right on the wall [TS]

  there at bar soup but you know what I [TS]

  did was I sang come on really pops yeah [TS]

  and there's and I sang another part and [TS]

  he just charges sang another one of his [TS]

  perfect angelic parts which he does all [TS]

  the time that's easy for him and you [TS]

  here is his angel he sings like an angel [TS]

  he does you brought your your your gut [TS]

  rattling just creaking listen to that [TS]

  transit land I do not have the thing for [TS]

  the wall that then you put you know you [TS]

  kind of put it next to the bathroom [TS]

  you're like oh that old thing like that [TS]

  thing you know you or I could not open [TS]

  it and it could be like a gold record [TS]

  the idea of your trophy room being [TS]

  unopened boxes but with a full display [TS]

  case and maybe a bell jar on it and a [TS]

  fucking black with a question mark like [TS]

  just stuff you've gotten in the mail [TS]

  that might be really beautiful [TS]

  and mounted things in envelopes see for [TS]

  all you know it could be a bigmouth [TS]

  Billy bass but could also be a Grammy no [TS]

  one saying it's not a Grammy is the [TS]

  schrödinger's Grammy well I'm you know [TS]

  right in the center a really big box [TS]

  that's probably a platinum record from [TS]

  Beauty you have to imagine they did very [TS]

  well John is a very popular but it was [TS]

  popular and and you know wouldn't it [TS]

  cost a lot to send like one to everybody [TS]

  that worked on us to say how many people [TS]

  ended up learning about them because [TS]

  they came to see the opening act I think [TS]

  it's pretty safe to say how many people [TS]

  did because you know we can look at our [TS]

  own record sales [TS]

  you never know you never know but but [TS]

  yeah so I mean so my like my [TS]

  metaphysical trophy wall has a lot of [TS]

  these like a ward adjacent envelopes [TS]

  yeah and I just like and of course now [TS]

  we have phony that's the thing see [TS]

  somebody went to the trouble yeah an [TS]

  award the non-existent award that we [TS]

  made up and were mad that we weren't [TS]

  nominated for somebody made that real [TS]

  Rory made that real he made you the [TS]

  headphones you hope you an award was [TS]

  literally invented for you not to be [TS]

  better yeah although I invented it but [TS]

  we invented well you conceptualized it [TS]

  that's right but you didn't paint you [TS]

  fucking headphones no I didn't take [TS]

  headphones and build a phony award yes [TS]

  and stuff that guy's the real deal well [TS]

  and to be honest those are noise [TS]

  protection headphones sue [TS]

  you guys just wrap it up and put it away [TS]

  why bother my fucking mother [TS]

  why bother my fucking mother [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John [TS]

  hi Merlin how's it going good yeah is it [TS]

  earlier you ill Oh neither [TS]

  oh you okay no no you sound better yeah [TS]

  no I I just I did something i I never do [TS]

  which is I crammed I crammed that's the [TS]

  wrong one I ate I ate some food [TS]

  oh gee I ate too warmed up slices of [TS]

  pizza mmm [TS]

  for breakfast she's microwave for the [TS]

  the oven I use the microwave huh [TS]

  which is I you know we all know the not [TS]

  the best way to put pizza back into [TS]

  circulation from cold pizza just fine [TS]

  mm-hmm [TS]

  some reason I thought just I just [TS]

  thought go for it just throw the pizzas [TS]

  in the in the microwave and eat them I [TS]

  recently acquired some new technology [TS]

  that I'm very excited about although I [TS]

  have not figured out how fully to [TS]

  utilize it yet and I acquired a product [TS]

  from the Whirlpool Corporation that [TS]

  purports to be a pan touch the pan it's [TS]

  a pan that can be used it's basically [TS]

  looks like a pizza let's say probably [TS]

  like a 12-inch pizza [TS]

  dingus what do you call them you know [TS]

  talking about pizza pan pizza pan feets [TS]

  pan [TS]

  but it's treated with some kind of [TS]

  aluminium that can be used in the [TS]

  microwave oven wait a minute I know see [TS]

  this flies in the face of everything [TS]

  we've learned this is our culture and [TS]

  our heritage is one thing we know yep [TS]

  man the moon microwave oven right [TS]

  microwave oven cannot heat to the center [TS]

  of a lasagna and you can't put a pan in [TS]

  a microwave mm-hmm [TS]

  you don't don't rollerskate know the [TS]

  flow hurt but I got this I've only used [TS]

  it once but it purports to crisp up the [TS]

  thing that you are heating in the [TS]

  microwave Christmas it up now have you [TS]

  ever gotten for example like gas station [TS]

  french fries that comes in a pack with [TS]

  like like a silvery reflective inside [TS]

  when you heat it you know that I don't [TS]

  eat potatoes [TS]

  oh you're aware of judges you just don't [TS]

  consume them yeah but I do know about [TS]

  the packaging that you're describing the [TS]

  the foil inner inner foil yes I mean I'm [TS]

  keen to have this happen cuz me I like [TS]

  some hot wings [TS]

  sometimes when we order a delivery place [TS]

  I'll get hot wings just for later kind [TS]

  of for the Tavia for me what's the [TS]

  problem with a hot wing is you got it [TS]

  you got a chicken piece and on the [TS]

  inside on the outside you got to get me [TS]

  hot sauce and in between you've got some [TS]

  crisped up probably flowery coating [TS]

  thing and then you heat that in a [TS]

  microwave and it's just not that fun [TS]

  no it's our job to sell I don't know I [TS]

  think I might be this might be something [TS]

  you want to look at I am going to [TS]

  problem is it is at odds I think I've [TS]

  talked I feel like I definitely talked [TS]

  about this before but I don't know if [TS]

  you know this about me I am a master of [TS]

  the microwave particularly with regard [TS]

  to using the percentages I'm a [TS]

  percentage man on are you really yeah [TS]

  you know my whole feeling about it is [TS]

  like put it in at a hundred percent [TS]

  mm-hmm and it's all a time game just [TS]

  saying it's a percentage game it can be [TS]

  a percentage game this is not for [TS]

  everybody because a lot of people they [TS]

  have busy working day lives and they've [TS]

  got to get on moving moving to the next [TS]

  thing they're mining bitcoins [TS]

  they're picking kids up at school [TS]

  there's a lot control but so one benefit [TS]

  we've got a really high wattage [TS]

  microwave that heats stuff super fast so [TS]

  like coming [TS]

  how many wattage it's over a thousand I [TS]

  want to say like 1200 or more but we [TS]

  always have to go a little bit south on [TS]

  when they tell you like oh do it for [TS]

  this long can you get those on the [TS]

  street you can get these please 1200 [TS]

  mics on the street well you know does [TS]

  some aftermarket things to it we [TS]

  Ami's and uh yeah yeah so I mean that's [TS]

  great if you want to make hot water you [TS]

  want pure energy going coursing through [TS]

  your water your energy to your energy to [TS]

  generate the heats there's nice bullets [TS]

  you want that but with a pizza see [TS]

  here's the thing with a pizza you put a [TS]

  pizza in for a minute yeah that's gonna [TS]

  be a very very very hot possibly bernie [TS]

  pizza hot wet pizza hot wet pizza I love [TS]

  that movie so here's my challenge to you [TS]

  is to start so first of all you may know [TS]

  for example that for defrosting if you [TS]

  don't have an auto defrost if you do [TS]

  need to defrost you go for like a ten a [TS]

  ten percent that's really yeah cuz the [TS]

  problem is what a microwave does [TS]

  according to the the technologies and [TS]

  books that I have acquired is that it [TS]

  cooks from the I believe it cooks I want [TS]

  to say from the inside out I'm not sure [TS]

  how that were inside out cooks from the [TS]

  corner but just something where like [TS]

  it's very you know you've had the [TS]

  experience certainly of like let's look [TS]

  at the lasagna considered was Anya [TS]

  consider kids on and when yeah when you [TS]

  heat the lasagna you get that thing of [TS]

  like one part is scalding and giving you [TS]

  mouth meat yeah and another part is like [TS]

  actually physically cold still throws [TS]

  yeah well okay so here's here's my [TS]

  challenge to you consider and consider [TS]

  the 40 percent setting all right so if [TS]

  you you got a pretty good feel for like [TS]

  how long to put something in to heat it [TS]

  up thinking about it now I'm thinking [TS]

  I'm holding I'm holding the let's say [TS]

  what is the thing that I microwaved the [TS]

  most that isn't yeah something you know [TS]

  some well I have to I have to I have to [TS]

  two ways I use the microwave actually [TS]

  the thing that I shouldn't have frozen [TS]

  that I froze right and now I want to [TS]

  bring it back to life you have you [TS]

  you're you are kind of a master of the [TS]

  freezing process like if you're not sure [TS]

  if meats gone bad you put it in the [TS]

  freezer right and so I can have that [TS]

  later that's right the freeze the [TS]

  freezing if it's like if I don't cook [TS]

  this today then I then it's going bad [TS]

  throw it away yeah put it in the freezer [TS]

  and then I'll cook it a year from now [TS]

  how do you like me now I like you plenty [TS]

  now I think that's a terrific way to go [TS]

  and you know that's a little bit of [TS]

  mystery yes everything you pull out of [TS]

  the freezer which should be you know [TS]

  it's it's brand spankin new you know and [TS]

  you're you're when you were a kid did [TS]

  you ever put batteries in the [TS]

  refrigerator to refresh them course okay [TS]

  so I don't know if people do that [TS]

  anymore it used to be the conventional [TS]

  wisdom was now now you can store your [TS]

  batteries in the fridge supposedly makes [TS]

  them last longer I don't know I don't [TS]

  know the kid we take oh we take a 9-volt [TS]

  and stick it in there overnight and you [TS]

  get a little more juice out of it yeah [TS]

  so what I would suggest is this is very [TS]

  arbitrary but if you have let's say [TS]

  arbitrarily you've got something you [TS]

  need to heat up that you feel like is a [TS]

  let's say a two-minute heat up try [TS]

  having the amount of time and doing it [TS]

  at 40% same amount of time but 40% of [TS]

  half the amount of time wait whoa no no [TS]

  sorry wait a minute I got my math wrong [TS]

  okay cut that out when you edit this cut [TS]

  that out all right do this almost twice [TS]

  as long for 40% and what that does is [TS]

  that's gonna let those little waves [TS]

  really get in there they're gonna say [TS]

  hey buddy you know pump your brakes we [TS]

  just need to get real deep into the [TS]

  lasagna this is not this is not we're [TS]

  not some teenage boy that needs to need [TS]

  to bust his nut on this lasagna and and [TS]

  you know uh 40 seconds right let's be a [TS]

  gentleman about this let's length of [TS]

  food accommodate the waves you're just [TS]

  gonna slide into there da it's okay [TS]

  buddy [TS]

  I don't want to see your speed this is [TS]

  this is a microwave user this is gonna [TS]

  go you tell me if you want to stop right [TS]

  so Sam's it's like vibrating I always [TS]

  think of a microwave as cooking by like [TS]

  by jiggling by vibrating like the [TS]

  molecules yeah so it's in the molecule [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  but what you're saying is like it's just [TS]

  gonna it's gonna tickle its way through [TS]

  the outside molecules be like yelling at [TS]

  it you know what I'm saying don't yell [TS]

  it don't yell at the lasagna anyway I'm [TS]

  just tossing this out experiment try it [TS]

  try this because I have [TS]

  I did this one my daughter frequently my [TS]

  daughter will have like two pieces of [TS]

  pizza we got leftover pizza she wants to [TS]

  snack of course two minutes before [TS]

  dinner she has to have a snack which is [TS]

  just driving me out of my mind but like [TS]

  she gets home from school I'm gonna make [TS]

  her some pizza [TS]

  I'll do and because we have a super [TS]

  strong microwave I'll do maybe 40% for a [TS]

  minute 20 see how it is it can always do [TS]

  more you can't undo microwave you can [TS]

  only do more microwave you can't receive [TS]

  there's no at currently with the current [TS]

  technology right no way to remove [TS]

  microwave [TS]

  but you might be amazed it makes it [TS]

  really quite nice and what does you know [TS]

  it's easy to screw up a pizza it's [TS]

  pretty easy to mess up yeah but also [TS]

  pizza is just such a throwaway food it's [TS]

  like but I noticed this about myself all [TS]

  the time I screw up food and then I sit [TS]

  and shame eat it you do that now you eat [TS]

  it I screwed this up so badly and so now [TS]

  what I deserve is to sit alone at the [TS]

  end of this table with a napkin tucked [TS]

  into my shirt [TS]

  and a knife in one hand and a fork in [TS]

  the other and just just just eat this [TS]

  shit that I just really like misery in [TS]

  every bite I do that I learn from it [TS]

  John no no that the tragedy is here's [TS]

  one of the tragedies I was talking to [TS]

  you I think about my inability to cook a [TS]

  steak oh yeah very surprising a man [TS]

  contacted me here in Seattle and he said [TS]

  I'm teaching his cook steak a steak [TS]

  cooking class a cook steak in class and [TS]

  he said I'd like you to come attending [TS]

  the cook steak in class and I said I [TS]

  would be so into that and now I just was [TS]

  offered a gig at the same time as the [TS]

  cooks taking class Oh bummer [TS]

  and you know I can partly make my living [TS]

  doing gigs gigs are important it's a gig [TS]

  economy it's an out of town gig all the [TS]

  things that and you know and I'm just [TS]

  like I can't see your calendar for that [TS]

  stuff it's no good it's no good and I [TS]

  just feel I just feel like I [TS]

  just put and the thing is he doesn't [TS]

  offer this class all the time this is a [TS]

  this is a class that just comes up every [TS]

  once a while I don't know why he seems [TS]

  like he should be able to do it every [TS]

  day [TS]

  yeah every morning he should wake up in [TS]

  the teachers what you just hop on the [TS]

  blower [TS]

  they have him give a tea and pigs and [TS]

  bunnies you think there's something [TS]

  where he could just give you the high [TS]

  level give you three bullets on a cook's [TS]

  taking that means that insulting to to [TS]

  his method probably I mean what one time [TS]

  I took a am I took an engineering class [TS]

  like a like a studio production class [TS]

  because I've sat in recording studios a [TS]

  hundred times looking over people's [TS]

  shoulders asking them questions what are [TS]

  you doing there I'm just you know I'm [TS]

  changing the Shelf on the loom the bus [TS]

  mm-hmm it's like oh you're changing the [TS]

  shelf on the bus I don't know and I even [TS]

  know what those turns you thinking [TS]

  yourself should I be changing the shelf [TS]

  on my bus oh shit is exactly right right [TS]

  I mean you know like I run my vocals to [TS]

  an 1176 I love I love the way the [TS]

  machine sounds I I know them intimately [TS]

  from staring at them but still every [TS]

  single thing that a person does on them [TS]

  I have no idea what they're doing [TS]

  I'm just looking at this this is the [TS]

  1176 L in the classic limiting amplifier [TS]

  mmm-hmm oh it's got a lot of knobs John [TS]

  but it's a wonderful wonderful machine [TS]

  and it has and the thing is it has [TS]

  tricks there are tricks you can do on it [TS]

  you can push all the buttons in at once [TS]

  which everybody agrees is really great [TS]

  and so if I owned one they're not cheap [TS]

  if I owned one I would put all the [TS]

  buttons in at once and I'd leave it [TS]

  there and I would find a setting and I [TS]

  would just leave it there I would never [TS]

  touch it again the problem is and I [TS]

  don't know if you encountered this [TS]

  because you're somebody that I that [TS]

  spend some time understanding them [TS]

  architecture and I like to understand [TS]

  the architecture well the rules before [TS]

  you break them that's right and when [TS]

  when a compressor or a limiter is doing [TS]

  its job I understand [TS]

  in my mind's eye kind of what's [TS]

  happening kind of to sound which I kind [TS]

  of understand but I cannot quite put [TS]

  together you know I am I like a mental [TS]

  picture you know I look at the course of [TS]

  a year and I have scope it out as a [TS]

  geography yeah but I can't quite in all [TS]

  the men on a map just give me an idea [TS]

  how the terrain works yeah [TS]

  but the maps sometimes require maps [TS]

  sometimes require that you understand [TS]

  the physical property of of the thing [TS]

  that you're doing right this is why it's [TS]

  so hard to make a map shirt cut yeah [TS]

  right so if you don't understand what [TS]

  sound is how can you make a map of it [TS]

  and how much can you understand what [TS]

  sound is unless you really study sound [TS]

  you can't just like oh so did some waves [TS]

  like yeah alright waves but like sound [TS]

  going through a box [TS]

  mm-hmm that that's electricity it's one [TS]

  of those things were like you when you [TS]

  if you try to ask for the short version [TS]

  you're gonna find yourself moving up and [TS]

  up and up in the stack to like something [TS]

  you you thought you knew but didn't [TS]

  really understand you need to understand [TS]

  before as a predicate like before you [TS]

  get to this other thing correct it's the [TS]

  predicate what even is sound what it [TS]

  what even is it and so you know so I [TS]

  said and I'm talking to engineers and [TS]

  they're like yeah well you just you know [TS]

  it's just yeah yes this is just you just [TS]

  put a shelf on the bus and I go I don't [TS]

  even yeah okay but what is what am I [TS]

  trying for and then then the problem is [TS]

  it's all they'll look at you and they're [TS]

  just like we'll just do it till it [TS]

  sounds good it's like yeah okay but it [TS]

  sort of said it sort of sounds [TS]

  differently good every direction anyway [TS]

  so I took a class from a noted engineer [TS]

  producer and it was me and like four [TS]

  other people and he walked us through it [TS]

  was like three days we I went down and [TS]

  stayed in a hotel and poor [TS]

  Londyn went to three days worth of being [TS]

  in the studio Wow learning all the stuff [TS]

  and I came out of there exactly as [TS]

  ignorant as I was when I went in and [TS]

  through no fault of the class but just [TS]

  that there's a fundamental comprehension [TS]

  that I am lacking that the class didn't [TS]

  address because it's not that wasn't [TS]

  under the within the purview of the [TS]

  class and I think you went straight into [TS]

  algebra 2 yeah yeah it's just like oh [TS]

  well here you go [TS]

  just run it in here and bust it over [TS]

  here and put a shelf on it over here and [TS]

  I was still sitting there with a dunce [TS]

  cap on going but what is sound huh or [TS]

  what are we what are we doing what are [TS]

  we manipulating like how does how does [TS]

  me going like good job things are gonna [TS]

  get easier turn into electricity that [TS]

  goes into these things and is [TS]

  manipulated by your knobs and out the [TS]

  other side I get it I mean I get it I've [TS]

  heard it a thousand times but I just [TS]

  don't get it I think there's another [TS]

  problem [TS]

  maybe just because I know so very little [TS]

  and all I ever do is twiddle it till it [TS]

  sounds good to me [TS]

  yeah with my dumb bad ears but like okay [TS]

  here's a phenomenon that I used to be on [TS]

  one end of and I'm now on the other end [TS]

  of used to always be on the end of some [TS]

  dingus you came through a phenomenon [TS]

  you're on the other end of it well yeah [TS]

  and I'm not loving it but but you've [TS]

  been on the end of the phenomenon where [TS]

  some dingus is using the computer and [TS]

  they're not doing it fast enough or [TS]

  smart enough for you and you're like no [TS]

  no just click click file file not there [TS]

  up there click man [TS]

  click that click that because for some [TS]

  reason when you're driving you're blind [TS]

  like you don't see stuff like have you [TS]

  ever noticed and so the other end of [TS]

  that now is like when I'm using the [TS]

  computer my daughter is constantly [TS]

  frustrated that I'm not doing the thing [TS]

  that she thinks she would do faster I [TS]

  think there should be a there's probably [TS]

  a name for this but there is a [TS]

  phenomenon when somebody else is doing [TS]

  the physical enough it's a modal thing [TS]

  but when one person is doing a physical [TS]

  manipulation the other [TS]

  person sees things more clearly right [TS]

  and I bet that goes five times more with [TS]

  audio we're one nice reason to have [TS]

  somebody in the room with you [TS]

  engineering is that they are they know [TS]

  how that machine works and what sound [TS]

  makes and then they you're able to have [TS]

  like two sets of years working on it [TS]

  yeah do you know what I'm saying though [TS]

  absolutely well that's what's wonderful [TS]

  about recording for me is that when some [TS]

  when some tiny tiny adjustment is made [TS]

  to the sound by a knob I perceive it and [TS]

  also have an opinion about it and want [TS]

  it to be this or that and I know enough [TS]

  about the words that I can say Allen [TS]

  just put a little bit more shelf on that [TS]

  bus mm-hm [TS]

  and the engineer is like yep right and [TS]

  he does it and it's exact and I was [TS]

  right mm-hmm [TS]

  I have no idea though what because I'm [TS]

  just talking in I'm just making I'm [TS]

  casting spells you know I'm like just I [TS]

  learned some spells Wizards way and the [TS]

  thing is also your quality control gets [TS]

  weird because like everybody knows I [TS]

  don't know if they still call it this [TS]

  but there used to be something called an [TS]

  aural enhancer where if you put an aural [TS]

  enhancer on something it suddenly sounds [TS]

  a lot fresher but you also don't want to [TS]

  sound too fresh you don't want to sound [TS]

  too [TS]

  Arlyn hansteen I'm saying I do that goes [TS]

  for compression that echoes for [TS]

  equalization that goes for a limiting [TS]

  that goes for so many things there's [TS]

  another example this has gone around a [TS]

  lot over the years where people who [TS]

  insist they can tell like tiny [TS]

  differences between quality of like [TS]

  audio formats they found that you can [TS]

  trick almost anybody into thinking [TS]

  something sounds better by making it [TS]

  slightly louder than the other examples [TS]

  that does sound better [TS]

  well like the guy I forget exactly there [TS]

  was one famous guy maybe nuno [TS]

  bettencourt [TS]

  or something somebody well who said that [TS]

  they forget it wasn't Todd Rundgren but [TS]

  somebody liked to put 3/4 used up nine [TS]

  volts in their effects boxes because the [TS]

  3/4 used up battery [TS]

  it's a warmer center you know the French [TS]

  battery the sound source battery no [TS]

  rattle that's just that's too much but [TS]

  we do this all the time in mixing [TS]

  records where the record just sounds [TS]

  amazing when you your make you sitting [TS]

  in the studio you're mixing it through [TS]

  your NS tens and which are terrible [TS]

  sounding but everybody uses them and [TS]

  we're all like that's great and then and [TS]

  then the engineer says we'll listen to [TS]

  them on headphones and you put the [TS]

  headphones on you're like oh no this [TS]

  sounds terrible yeah and you cannot just [TS]

  mix something hearing it through one [TS]

  source and that is the real [TS]

  destabilizing thing because you have to [TS]

  because mixing is such a delicate art [TS]

  and the room and other people's sweat [TS]

  and and if you're only listening to like [TS]

  one like you meet all the other tracks [TS]

  you listen to one on the isolated track [TS]

  like you're not going to hear that the [TS]

  same way once you bring up the bass and [TS]

  the drums stuff like that bringing up [TS]

  that bass you know I mean that sounds [TS]

  like an obvious thing but that's the [TS]

  other thing is like is there's no [TS]

  shortcut really to saying like well we [TS]

  want to fill the entire musical spectrum [TS]

  I mean people I imagine that is very [TS]

  intuitive and that you do that once once [TS]

  you've got all the levels and sounds [TS]

  kind of how you want then the really [TS]

  artful thing it seems to me is being [TS]

  able to make it all sound good together [TS]

  which is almost impossibly hard and you [TS]

  fuck yourself up but if you change one [TS]

  thing wrong and then you go and listen [TS]

  your car and you're like what doesn't [TS]

  sound anything like it should sound and [TS]

  it's quiet you listen you know that new [TS]

  portugal demand song which I'm gonna [TS]

  keep referring to because everybody in [TS]

  the country's got it stuck in their head [TS]

  it's very catchy they're these according [TS]

  to my daughter they're the third most [TS]

  popular band at her school Wow who are [TS]

  the other two she didn't say no kidding [TS]

  no but she was listened to in the shower [TS]

  i tutored about this a couple weeks ago [TS]

  I was like what is that song she's like [TS]

  it's par to call the man there's like [TS]

  Portugal period though man like it's [TS]

  okay it's not at all what I expected I [TS]

  thought I was gonna be mopey Portland [TS]

  beard music mmm no and they they have [TS]

  made quite a bit of like psychedelic [TS]

  music I mean it doesn't sound like them [TS]

  they're their hit song [TS]

  okay Torchic like their music is I I [TS]

  think you would like I think you would [TS]

  like it they are their Portland there by [TS]

  way of by way of Alaska while Scylla [TS]

  Alaska so they're from B F motherfucking [TS]

  E as we say yes in the north [TS]

  like Wasilla now is not the Wasilla of [TS]

  their childhoods and certainly not that [TS]

  was so low my child got a hell of a flag [TS]

  in Wasilla am i in my life [TS]

  wha Silla I mean you could you could [TS]

  carry a gun into the 7-eleven in Wasilla [TS]

  could do that now wow you might be [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  working probably it's it's a wide spot [TS]

  in the road yeah [TS]

  and the road isn't very wide but those [TS]

  guys there they're fun they're taking [TS]

  the piss but if you listen to the bass [TS]

  sound on that track it's already a very [TS]

  cool sound coming out of the gate the [TS]

  bass has its own tone that's pretty [TS]

  unusual for a contemporary pop song and [TS]

  and when it comes in the first time I [TS]

  really listen to the tune and and I [TS]

  heard it start with this bass line my [TS]

  feeling was there's no way they're gonna [TS]

  be able to sustain that bass sound [TS]

  through the track because it's it's a [TS]

  very individual bass sound but it's like [TS]

  that's not gonna pop that's not gonna [TS]

  punch through it's not gonna it's not [TS]

  gonna be sufficient because it's such a [TS]

  nuance to tone but then in the [TS]

  production of the song which I think was [TS]

  produced by like Mike D and Danger Mouse [TS]

  mm-hmm I mean it's like oh that makes a [TS]

  lot of sense something right now it's a [TS]

  very unusual bass tone yeah somehow this [TS]

  totally is clunky and it's got a little [TS]

  bit like a slap back mm-hmm and some hip [TS]

  some reverb it's pretty 60 sounding it [TS]

  sounds almost like flat wound strings [TS]

  and you just wouldn't think that it [TS]

  would it would manage on on contemporary [TS]

  radio [TS]

  but the production is so good that it [TS]

  get that that they're able to keep this [TS]

  like kind of bass sound going and it's [TS]

  and it really propels it really propels [TS]

  the song but but it's one thing to get a [TS]

  tone like that in the studio and be like [TS]

  oh that's a cool bass sound but to [TS]

  commit to it stick to it and make it [TS]

  work I mean that's that's real artistry [TS]

  and it's what distinguishes that song [TS]

  from from everything else that's on the [TS]

  radio right now which is just like yeah [TS]

  excuse me that's Carol that's fine [TS]

  microphone you're gonna get that right [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you by Squarespace [TS]

  you can learn more about Squarespace [TS]

  right now by visiting squarespace.com [TS]

  and hey hey listen when you're ready to [TS]

  launch there always remember always use [TS]

  the offer code supertrain and that will [TS]

  save you 10% off your first purchase of [TS]

  a website or domain Squarespace [TS]

  oh there's so many things you can do [TS]

  with Squarespace you guys you can create [TS]

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  Flash website from 2005 and get a [TS]

  Squarespace site Squarespace I want to [TS]

  be able to see it on a phone that's a [TS]

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  can announce your events your special [TS]

  projects so much more and you know what [TS]

  hey you can even run uh uh a podcast [TS]

  right on Squarespace you know how I know [TS]

  because I'm doing it right now you are [TS]

  listening to roderick on the line hello [TS]

  and that is because of Squarespace we [TS]

  host all of Roderick online on [TS]

  Squarespace lock stock and as they say [TS]

  barrel Squarespace [TS]

  so Squarespace does this by giving you [TS]

  so many things I have a whole bulleted [TS]

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  he ain't got probably need any help but [TS]

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  to go out and make it you make it [TS]

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  yourself with Squarespace well I mean [TS]

  technically it's with UN Squarespace but [TS]

  you know they're there to help you out [TS]

  with that you know and this is that time [TS]

  of year you know what I want to be sure [TS]

  to mention and I I can't promise you [TS]

  Squarespace is perfect for everybody [TS]

  maybe you got some kind of dingaling [TS]

  website you're really happy with but I [TS]

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  it at the different groups you're [TS]

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  be the person who is making the Wiccan [TS]

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  Wiccan you know they seem like nice [TS]

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  make it what Squarespace at [TS]

  squarespace.com so go right now please [TS]

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  website or domain our thanks to [TS]

  Squarespace for supporting runner on the [TS]

  line and all the great shows and all the [TS]

  great shows I have a podcast called [TS]

  friendly fire now you might have heard [TS]

  about it's a war movie and in the first [TS]

  episode apparently I took a bite of [TS]

  something or something oh no no I don't [TS]

  remember doing this it's very unusual [TS]

  for me to have a sandwich [TS]

  during the recording you know how do you [TS]

  have any recollection of it I have none [TS]

  no no recollection but this podcast is [TS]

  on the maximum fun dot network [TS]

  mmm-hmm and their fans are very [TS]

  particular mm-hmm as you may recall [TS]

  you've had some you've had some [TS]

  association with that yeah that's and [TS]

  run-ins with maximum fun I've dealt with [TS]

  that over the years oh sure I was [TS]

  listening to a maximum fun podcast this [TS]

  morning with your with your your tuned [TS]

  departure in it [TS]

  oh yes the baboons [TS]

  and those guys those guys also say their [TS]

  fans are very particular [TS]

  oh very Hardy that's why they don't use [TS]

  Twitter so much anymore oh because they [TS]

  get yelled at does Travis need to speak [TS]

  in that particularly peak tone quite [TS]

  that loudly I got a dear sir really [TS]

  yelled at the guy I was like what did [TS]

  you intend this service of yeah are you [TS]

  trying to make me feel good about five [TS]

  times a day John I don't do that it's so [TS]

  hard not to I don't usually do it but [TS]

  hey that seemed kind of hurtful yeah I'm [TS]

  not asking for an apology but like I [TS]

  think you didn't realize that what you [TS]

  said was a little bit hurtful we had the [TS]

  other day somebody loved our recent [TS]

  episode of Dubai Friday so much they [TS]

  said that from now on Max's father [TS]

  should be on instead of Max every [TS]

  episode Lal and that's a little bit [TS]

  hurtful that's but yeah I know you being [TS]

  fun and having fun with that but that's [TS]

  a little bit hurtful yeah yeah I yelled [TS]

  at this guy for the for the length of [TS]

  three tweets dear sir and and he wrote [TS]

  back and he was like I thought you would [TS]

  think that was funny why not get [TS]

  offended Yeah right my god hostility is [TS]

  love on Twitter but anyway the fact that [TS]

  I apparently took a bite of a sandwich [TS]

  and now I've checked with some other [TS]

  people that I podcast with and I and I [TS]

  need to check in with you but I think [TS]

  Dan Benjamin your good friend Dan yeah [TS]

  Dan said that on the first podcast I did [TS]

  with him I took a bite of a sandwich [TS]

  hmm and I'm not sure I believe this I it [TS]

  would require that I bring a sandwich [TS]

  I'm not here to eat your shorts but I'll [TS]

  just tell you that's a reference that [TS]

  for one no no I don't think you eat [TS]

  sometimes we both drink something I've [TS]

  been told that you can hear this a lot [TS]

  in my podcasts or better put like you [TS]

  hear like a Seltzer cam being put down [TS]

  oh I have heard that mmm I tried you [TS]

  hear the train in the background I mean [TS]

  you might have a squeaky chair you can [TS]

  hear that very chair wait but I just [TS]

  want to tell you you know you're that's [TS]

  snort you just did that is an old-school [TS]

  OG b fe d Wasilla jon Roderick's north [TS]

  you don't do so much anymore you used to [TS]

  be a huge snorter and now you once you [TS]

  don't snort you don't you used to snort [TS]

  a lot and now you don't snort as much do [TS]

  people really I would do a snort I try [TS]

  hard not to snort and then sometimes I [TS]

  listen back to something especially if [TS]

  it's in the kind of informal before or [TS]

  after show part that ends up somewhere I [TS]

  make a lot of mouth sounds so I you know [TS]

  I have a voice that comes from a husky [TS]

  place oh yeah yeah it comes sarcophagus [TS]

  there's like you're like oh like a plate [TS]

  reverb man that's coming from deep [TS]

  inside far inside your vessel yeah yeah [TS]

  it's a kind of it's a sound it's why I [TS]

  don't like the sound of my own voice [TS]

  when I hear it because it just sounds [TS]

  very there's a lot of other tones in it [TS]

  a kind of I hate I hate to use the [TS]

  phrase this is one that's gonna haunt me [TS]

  but it's it's a little bit flu Matic oh [TS]

  you get a little bit rattled [TS]

  yeah there's just some there's some self [TS]

  ride no no I I have I have pure tone I'm [TS]

  not [TS]

  right no it's like a natural kind of you [TS]

  know amount of something I bring my I [TS]

  bring my whole body into the into the [TS]

  sound if we recorded it a different time [TS]

  of day I'll speak for this program you [TS]

  and I would probably have fewer noises [TS]

  that we're making a lot of what we're [TS]

  making our morning noises or exam we're [TS]

  grown men we're grown-ass men and we [TS]

  make morning noises I've thought about [TS]

  trying to record a song in them in like [TS]

  in the early morning because the because [TS]

  my voice has a very distinctive tone [TS]

  that I would love to capture in a song [TS]

  this world-weary yeah and kind of just [TS]

  like I could get much lower in the [TS]

  morning just get all the Stephen Merritt [TS]

  kind of like in probably low voice [TS]

  probably but I hear you know I hear [TS]

  people you and I both when we start [TS]

  sentences sometimes you know we start up [TS]

  a little higher and then we come down [TS]

  low you're famous up there and then it [TS]

  just like a pachinko game it just serves [TS]

  if you just didn't like off there you [TS]

  hear all those voices in the voice III I [TS]

  hear a lot of voiceover work being done [TS]

  now I'm conscious of voiceover work and [TS]

  and although I do feel that there's [TS]

  something like deeply wrong with the [TS]

  sound of my voice I when I hear other [TS]

  people doing voiceover work I think that [TS]

  wait a minute mm-hmm I could certainly [TS]

  do that better than them I mean I'd need [TS]

  my tooth back Oh is there a certain like [TS]

  Jean I think you do great without the [TS]

  tooth death is there a certain like [TS]

  genre of voiceover work where you feel [TS]

  that that's prevalent is this in link [TS]

  your first-person shooter games you like [TS]

  to play could it be an ad for nachos [TS]

  public service announcement overhead at [TS]

  the air [TS]

  poor like what are the kinds of ones [TS]

  that really get your goat I already do [TS]

  the overhead at the airport here it's I [TS]

  thought I recognized that yeah hi [TS]

  welcome to SeaTac Airport [TS]

  don't leave your luggage from long [TS]

  winter please don't leave your luggage [TS]

  unattended by the baggage carousel right [TS]

  thank you please move to the right [TS]

  faster people to go by on the moving [TS]

  sidewalk hi this is John Rutter from the [TS]

  long winter there's no parking or [TS]

  waiting in the red zone hi [TS]

  hi this is John Roberts in long last the [TS]

  white area is for loading and unloading [TS]

  I feel like who was the guy who was the [TS]

  guy from Northern Exposure that does all [TS]

  that voice of Hong Kong Vancouver no the [TS]

  other guy John John Corbett John Corbett [TS]

  he's the radio boy radio show on I think [TS]

  he had the radio she's on Corvis I don't [TS]

  know it's been a long time since I saw [TS]

  that TV I just like saying hauling [TS]

  vanqor [TS]

  which one was he oh he's the older fella [TS]

  with the money the one that's like in [TS]

  all the movies [TS]

  he's the movie star he plays the millet [TS]

  he plays the millionaire the astronaut [TS]

  is that my getting the name right what's [TS]

  in here Master Hung we're hauling van [TS]

  cool naturalized citizen owns and [TS]

  manages the brick a barn restaurant [TS]

  which is the center of social life and [TS]

  says no that's a different that's a [TS]

  different one he's the he's the blondie [TS]

  guy he's not the you know who's the old [TS]

  guy that played the general in war game [TS]

  so am I thinking of yeah all right [TS]

  that's the guy that I'm thinking of war [TS]

  games oh yeah that guy what's his name [TS]

  war games anyway continue so John [TS]

  Corbett does a lot of I don't know I [TS]

  hear his voice doing beer ads and and [TS]

  but but he's got that kind of wry like [TS]

  Tom bode a sort of like we'll leave the [TS]

  light on for you like folksy sort of I [TS]

  feel like if you needed a folksy voice I [TS]

  feel like do I have a folksy boys oh I [TS]

  think you're good and folksy if you [TS]

  choose to well yeah I mean you know hi [TS]

  this is John Roderick and [TS]

  that's chilling break down the tracks [TS]

  getting my van John Corbett is six foot [TS]

  five inches tall it's all he's made of [TS]

  bo Derek know he's dog he's been Bo [TS]

  Derek since 2002 that can't be true [TS]

  what's in the internet science page it [TS]

  says it look at that sold in the 90s [TS]

  when they were making that show they [TS]

  were you know they were filming that [TS]

  right here in in good old Seattle town [TS]

  right right outside of town right [TS]

  outside of town up in the mountains and [TS]

  so he was around and I think he bought a [TS]

  bar here in Seattle I think he bought [TS]

  the the merchants cafe or something one [TS]

  of those old one of the bars from the [TS]

  school it was cools that there was you [TS]

  know that there was a lot of scuttlebutt [TS]

  around town about him and sort of the [TS]

  fact that he was you know he was sowing [TS]

  his Wild Oats but it was the 90s he was [TS]

  TV star he's born in 1961 meaning he was [TS]

  30 in 1991 he was at the peak of his [TS]

  fame I bet he was I bet he was causing [TS]

  real trouble around here get more tail [TS]

  than Sinatra but you know I wasn't I [TS]

  wasn't I wasn't traveling in those [TS]

  circles so Bo Derek's five years old he [TS]

  is that he's 56 she's 61 I would have [TS]

  guessed that she's 82 well you know I'm [TS]

  sure during the peak of her fame 1979 [TS]

  huh she would have been ma'am what what [TS]

  would she have been she would have been [TS]

  31 Alexa how old was Bo Derek in 1979 [TS]

  Thanks [TS]

  how old 32 years 22 wait a minute [TS]

  that right yeah oh yeah okay 22 22 23 [TS]

  according to uh the lady at two right so [TS]

  you know if you're gonna be in a movie [TS]

  and run on a beach in slow motion in a [TS]

  bikini 20 22 is kind of like that's an [TS]

  excellent beach running age yeah that's [TS]

  a good window for that and somehow John [TS]

  Corbett and Bo Derek met one another [TS]

  that's what I'm curious about like how [TS]

  yeah I would have guessed that they were [TS]

  40 years apart 30 years apart yeah not [TS]

  much John moved to Germany returned [TS]

  after wait a minute what oh that's John [TS]

  Derek okay hang on okay John Corbett oh [TS]

  she only marries John so far hey heads [TS]

  up she marries John's wait a minute [TS]

  mm-hmm I'm still you know I still feel [TS]

  like Winona Ryder and I have a future [TS]

  together because in 1992 yeah all the [TS]

  John's were marrying Winona Ryder Oh [TS]

  actor singer guitarist okay I'm a little [TS]

  bit lost [TS]

  so voiceover work your sarcophaga rattle [TS]

  but the thing about voiceover work is [TS]

  it's like all work I don't know if you [TS]

  know this about work ten about work [TS]

  there are a lot of people that want it [TS]

  oh I see is always somebody hungrier [TS]

  yeah people want to work and you know I [TS]

  had quite a few friends from Seattle who [TS]

  reached the age of let's say 28 and they [TS]

  felt like Seattle was too small for them [TS]

  and they moved they moved to other [TS]

  places for instance Reggie Watts [TS]

  Reginald Watts was a see a former [TS]

  nemesis yeah that's right one uh one of [TS]

  you know he was a Seattle star he [TS]

  a band called Maktoob that's German for [TS]

  more tube more tube more two more tub [TS]

  and he he lorded it around Seattle [TS]

  pretty good but then he decided that [TS]

  this town was too small and he makes in [TS]

  New York and it turns out he was correct [TS]

  and I remember saying to him even when [TS]

  he was my nemesis I heard that he was [TS]

  moving to New York and we bumped into [TS]

  each other in a party in one of those [TS]

  situations where I was I went around a [TS]

  corner and he was coming around the [TS]

  other corner and we literally went like [TS]

  clunk huh [TS]

  and then we're standing there and they [TS]

  got to talk and there's that there's [TS]

  still that whole business between us yes [TS]

  and so we're standing there looking at [TS]

  each other and I said in a way that I [TS]

  think I thought at the time was very [TS]

  generous now I realize it's a kind of [TS]

  generosity that you know everybody's got [TS]

  a different kind of generosity oh and [TS]

  and one of the generosities that I have [TS]

  is that I like to give shout outs to [TS]

  people I know people that don't give [TS]

  shout outs and they always wonder why it [TS]

  doesn't cost you anything to say hey [TS]

  this person helped me or hey I wouldn't [TS]

  be here if it weren't for this or that [TS]

  the other kind of shout out I give is [TS]

  the small one the personal one between [TS]

  two people where I go you know what even [TS]

  though I don't like you [TS]

  I admire your thing mm-hmm and so Reggie [TS]

  man were standing there at this party [TS]

  and looking at each other and I said you [TS]

  know Reggie I hear you're moving to New [TS]

  York and frankly I think Seattle's too [TS]

  small for you I think I think you're [TS]

  bigger than this town and I think moving [TS]

  teen works boat moving to New York's the [TS]

  right move and he was surprised because [TS]

  I also could have said Reginald and gone [TS]

  around him and I think that that that [TS]

  let us part on good terms [TS]

  yeah I feel like he was he was accepting [TS]

  of that as a kind of compliment I think [TS]

  here I think he appreciated it yes [TS]

  because he was you know he was on the [TS]

  cusp of making that move and was [TS]

  probably anxious about it because now [TS]

  when we [TS]

  each other it's it's uh you know that's [TS]

  long time ago but I had and not I we had [TS]

  he and I even had mutual friends who [TS]

  moved to LA during that same time too [TS]

  because see how they felt Seattle was [TS]

  too small for them and they were gonna [TS]

  go down there to LA and become a [TS]

  Couture's huh you got a ghost you're [TS]

  gonna play you're gonna play in big show [TS]

  you got to go to LA that's right you [TS]

  hear that hear that train no I just [TS]

  talked to some people the other day in [TS]

  San Francisco who said they're rock [TS]

  musicians to chew and I talked about [TS]

  this who said that you can't be a rock [TS]

  musician in San Francisco all right East [TS]

  Bay right you get well no you got to go [TS]

  move to LA oh I see how however LA has [TS]

  no clubs and San Francisco still [TS]

  inexplicably although no rock scene [TS]

  anymore still has rock clubs I could not [TS]

  name a San Francisco band right now yeah [TS]

  isn't that a tragedy part of it's me and [TS]

  my age and I don't go to bottom of the [TS]

  hill anymore but there's a time when [TS]

  there was like a dozen bands that I [TS]

  follow I very actively for sure oh no [TS]

  you were like mr. sandwich I mobbed up [TS]

  you gotta get that you got the very [TS]

  slice you got orange or you got Beulah [TS]

  you didn't researches so many good bands [TS]

  in the early 2000s mm-hmm actions black [TS]

  action slacks you know I went to school [TS]

  with their drummer but San Francisco [TS]

  still has all these rock clubs so the [TS]

  the San Francisco music scene right now [TS]

  I think is just the LA music scene just [TS]

  as easy for them to go up there and play [TS]

  shows like you know the kind of shows [TS]

  that you play when you're in a band [TS]

  which is not always a full venue you [TS]

  want a place that has 200 capacity where [TS]

  if there's only a hundred people there [TS]

  it still feels like a good room and so [TS]

  there are a lot of those kind of bands [TS]

  in LA that that go up in play shows [TS]

  anyway so a lot of I have I have a [TS]

  pretty good handful of friends that went [TS]

  down to Los Angeles to become actors can [TS]

  you can you would give a redacted [TS]

  version of how that went mostly well it [TS]

  was a time I think where there was a [TS]

  feeling that scat [TS]

  comedy was gonna be a thing that that [TS]

  came out of LA instead of out of New [TS]

  York and so there were some edgy sketch [TS]

  people that went down and the edgy [TS]

  sketch people very quickly transitioned [TS]

  to I hope I can get a role in this [TS]

  commercial for Kodak right and then [TS]

  pretty soon they were just auditioning [TS]

  for anything and even though there were [TS]

  Lux 32 they were like trying to get the [TS]

  role of the dad in the in the Palmolive [TS]

  man and then pretty soon they were [TS]

  waiters yeah and or just each a live [TS]

  even on a good day on a good day [TS]

  geez and what they would say is for [TS]

  every role that I would go audition for [TS]

  there were dozens not only dozens of [TS]

  people looking for that job but dozens [TS]

  of more handsome better educated younger [TS]

  hungrier people looking for the job and [TS]

  it was and it just felt like wow up in [TS]

  Seattle I was kind of a big deal yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I had a theatre company [TS]

  we had our own space we were called [TS]

  David Sedaris has a hilarious bit about [TS]

  this from a million years ago we talked [TS]

  about when he was in high school and I [TS]

  think North Carolina you know he was [TS]

  like the mopey goth kid mm-hmm like the [TS]

  smart mopey like ooh that guy's dark and [TS]

  dangerous and then he's like he's like I [TS]

  went to college and I'm paraphrasing [TS]

  here but something like he went to [TS]

  college and like there were so many more [TS]

  of him who were better at it than him [TS]

  mm-hmm it sucks [TS]

  cuz that's your deal you got your deal [TS]

  like in high school you get to have a [TS]

  deal yes you get a deal I mean [TS]

  especially like you could you could go [TS]

  paint and paint a skull on your jean [TS]

  jacket with the liquid paper you're [TS]

  probably the only guy that did that I [TS]

  was the only guy in Anchorage that did [TS]

  that yeah you come down to Seattle [TS]

  everybody paper I always felt like it [TS]

  was a big advantage to me to go to [TS]

  Gonzaga for a couple of years because [TS]

  that was during a period of my life when [TS]

  my only goal [TS]

  was to be the one the furthest on the [TS]

  fringe and in Spokane and particularly [TS]

  at Gonzaga at a Catholic University a [TS]

  Jesuit school with a undergraduate [TS]

  population of 2,500 kids it was not much [TS]

  effort to be the one that was the [TS]

  farthest out and there you know there [TS]

  are always going to be people that are [TS]

  further out in in one direction or [TS]

  another they're always there were always [TS]

  people that took more drugs than me [TS]

  right or that were more like strictly [TS]

  edgy mm-hmm [TS]

  but in terms of being one person that [TS]

  was the furthest out from the from the [TS]

  center whilst still being in the orbit [TS]

  like that was easy to be for me income [TS]

  at Gonzaga if I'd been at the University [TS]

  of Washington which had 40,000 students [TS]

  at that time to be that person I would [TS]

  have had to have been a lot more at risk [TS]

  of injury first of all because I you [TS]

  know I would walk into a party at [TS]

  Gonzaga and dude dude just that stupid [TS]

  shit you just like break a wine bottle [TS]

  over your head it's much harder to do [TS]

  than it seems it hurts a lot more [TS]

  because in the movies of course they're [TS]

  make they use wine bottles that are made [TS]

  to break didn't they make amount of [TS]

  sugar making out of sugar [TS]

  they don't make real wine bottles out of [TS]

  sugar you can really knock yourself out [TS]

  be an unexploited opportunity let's be [TS]

  honest but at you know like on [TS]

  University Avenue I would have it would [TS]

  have I would have been even worse off [TS]

  than I am I would have been missing more [TS]

  teeth than I am you know and so to be in [TS]

  that to be innocent speed the the weird [TS]

  fish in a small pond helped me I think a [TS]

  lot protected me and it is like being [TS]

  the edgy goth kid at your high school [TS]

  where you're just like it keeps you [TS]

  keeps you safe I think [TS]

  if I'd gone to LA or even San Francisco [TS]

  certainly New York it would have been a [TS]

  very different thing for me I think [TS]

  because the first time the long winters [TS]

  arrived in New York City we had a big [TS]

  article in The Village Voice we played a [TS]

  show our first ever show in New York and [TS]

  it was full and the audience all knew [TS]

  our songs and I think it was because we [TS]

  were from Seattle we were exotic if we'd [TS]

  been in New York band right we would [TS]

  have just been just another New York [TS]

  band to them but but now you know we [TS]

  live out on the west coast and now it's [TS]

  like I walk around and go oh hey this [TS]

  broader problem with expertise [TS]

  experience and how we evaluate how we're [TS]

  doing whatever it is that we do which is [TS]

  like you know when I was a weird like [TS]

  eighth grader making up my own games [TS]

  that I could play by myself and and [TS]

  reading books and like I had to sell my [TS]

  own kind of self-assumed self-assess [TS]

  idea of like how smart I was alongside [TS]

  other people like I tested well and I [TS]

  was a reader and there's all this stuff [TS]

  but like if you expose if I've been [TS]

  exposed to a lot of like genuinely smart [TS]

  people maybe even people who are younger [TS]

  than me I would have utterly wither and [TS]

  I think when you get to something like [TS]

  the business that is show and it's not [TS]

  your friend it's show business I thought [TS]

  one of the things with that is like I [TS]

  feel I don't know I just feel like this [TS]

  is such a thing with people who want to [TS]

  go into the arts especially is that um [TS]

  being well let's even say you're [TS]

  talented like you're empirically [TS]

  talented well there's a lot of people [TS]

  who are empirically talented there has [TS]

  to be some kind of and I feel you really [TS]

  see this in New York whether you're [TS]

  talking about being in plays or [TS]

  delivering pizzas there's a certain kind [TS]

  of bare-knuckle real world reality to [TS]

  having done something a lot in a certain [TS]

  place certainly you could look at [TS]

  something like stand-up comedy and [TS]

  somebody you know somebody who assumes [TS]

  that they're really great at stand-up [TS]

  versus somebody who's done it even like [TS]

  20 times like there's a huge difference [TS]

  and I guess I feel like a lot of it [TS]

  comes down to not just whether you're [TS]

  good whether you assess that you're good [TS]

  how much you love and like thrive on the [TS]

  grind of whatever that industry or job [TS]

  is right and I think this goes for like [TS]

  a million things like you don't you [TS]

  think you want to become like what you [TS]

  know you don't realize like working a [TS]

  lot of working in an office is not the [TS]

  practition of your skill that you [TS]

  learned it's learning how to deal with [TS]

  people and being on time for meetings [TS]

  and being in your chair and all this [TS]

  kind of stuff where it's like well you [TS]

  know it's without having on-the-job [TS]

  experience and exposure to the reality [TS]

  of a job I guess what I'm saying is [TS]

  somebody who's great at the hustle in LA [TS]

  I'm gonna conjecture and who has the [TS]

  right agent might get way better roles [TS]

  than somebody who's empirically talented [TS]

  but it's not great at the hustle it's [TS]

  absolutely the case and obvious the [TS]

  point I feel like you can really lose [TS]

  this and the lights is that like the [TS]

  reality of every job is and it's not [TS]

  doesn't just come down to hustle but [TS]

  it's something where you're like you're [TS]

  I don't know maybe invigorated by all [TS]

  the losses somehow I but like there's [TS]

  got to be something more like if you [TS]

  look at everybody else in that audition [TS]

  and you go like all these people are you [TS]

  know were they're less experienced [TS]

  they're done in a but like they may have [TS]

  some kind of a fire or grit that you [TS]

  just don't have that is utterly critical [TS]

  for even getting your first role the the [TS]

  when you're young and starting out I [TS]

  think it's easy to make the mistake of [TS]

  thinking that the people that that what [TS]

  happens is people with hustle get past [TS]

  you even though you have more talent but [TS]

  when you get old I think at least in [TS]

  show friends [TS]

  I mean Oh show business sorry Sean we [TS]

  got that wrong I always get that mixed [TS]

  up you realize that the people that get [TS]

  past you are the ones that have hustle [TS]

  and more talent like it's very rare [TS]

  somebody said this to me the other day [TS]

  did it bother you does it still bother [TS]

  you that all those it was a person that [TS]

  was trying to compliment me about the [TS]

  sound of my band and they were like well [TS]

  you know I love your band so much does [TS]

  it bother you that all those other [TS]

  people got famous and there was [TS]

  something about the long winners that [TS]

  didn't catch fire [TS]

  does that like bother you and I said do [TS]

  you mean [TS]

  that it bothers me that the New [TS]

  Pornographers and spoon and Band of [TS]

  Horses and the Decembrists all got [TS]

  famous and not me because those bands [TS]

  are all great mm-hmm like they're not I [TS]

  don't think that Band of Horses got [TS]

  famous and the long winners didn't and [TS]

  it was because they hustled it's because [TS]

  they're because which put a lucky spell [TS]

  on them it's cuz they worked really hard [TS]

  I mean they were killers like just keep [TS]

  the spoon the same thing I mean they [TS]

  just work you know to me though great [TS]

  example is always mountain goats we're [TS]

  like they just keep putting out records [TS]

  and touring and that's today yeah I mean [TS]

  like I mean one way to like get lucky is [TS]

  to work like fucking hard [TS]

  well a mountain goats are mountain goats [TS]

  are an interesting example because [TS]

  people love them I know you love them I [TS]

  haven't kept as much lately but I have [TS]

  great admiration for them yeah and I [TS]

  never liked them mm-hmm I just don't [TS]

  wall I get it's not my it's not my thing [TS]

  I don't like the sound and so that is an [TS]

  example of one where I go in a weak [TS]

  moment I will say well yeah if you put [TS]

  out 40 records or whatever people will [TS]

  stick with you but when I hear people [TS]

  talk about them so worshipfully I also [TS]

  have to realize oh that's just not I'm [TS]

  not hearing it it's not that it's not [TS]

  there might be Ted Leo that works really [TS]

  hard he works really hard and Ted also [TS]

  during the authenticity Wars Ted [TS]

  maintains this authenticity in a way [TS]

  that I thought with your father in the [TS]

  authenticity Wars it's very hard you I [TS]

  mean Ted worked hard also to maintain [TS]

  unimpeachable 'ti in the Fugazi model [TS]

  where you go look those guys never they [TS]

  never doesn't chisel a DC band yeah and [TS]

  oh baby see he was from I listened to an [TS]

  interview with him recently it was [TS]

  really good but he talked about leaving [TS]

  he's from Connecticut write it somewhere [TS]

  new [TS]

  in New England and then he had moved oh [TS]

  no he's from Jersey I think baby oh I [TS]

  think you're he's in he's in Providence [TS]

  now yeah don't be creepy but he's from [TS]

  outside problem mm-hmm he owns a little [TS]

  church he owns his own church not really [TS]

  a church it's more of a Grange Hall hmm [TS]

  in a little old town I took you off your [TS]

  point when people ask you how you feel [TS]

  about the fact that the long winters [TS]

  aren't famouser alongside bands that you [TS]

  kind of came up with how do you feel [TS]

  about that but what what ends up [TS]

  happening is in the middle in the young [TS]

  middle of my career there were all kinds [TS]

  of bands that had the same amount or [TS]

  slightly more juice and energy in the [TS]

  local scene and in the sort of cmj [TS]

  dominated indie rock music scene [TS]

  nationally that I did feel that way [TS]

  about like why the hell are those guys [TS]

  getting a 1-page in magnet but the fact [TS]

  is I had a one page in magnet I had a [TS]

  three page in magnet but the bands that [TS]

  one out because those bands are gone now [TS]

  hey Joe here's much from not a surf [TS]

  these days do you still doing it they're [TS]

  still doing it right they're on tour in [TS]

  Europe right now yeah but not a circus a [TS]

  good example like they were like to me [TS]

  maybe because I just had bar sook on the [TS]

  brain but like there was that time when [TS]

  like you know when let go mmm [TS]

  came out were like they were just [TS]

  omnipresent in my circles yeah and they [TS]

  are they always sold more records than [TS]

  we did and I think they're a better band [TS]

  that we were in in all of the [TS]

  measurements of a band their live show [TS]

  we tell the drummer worked harder than [TS]

  we did their songs were catch here you [TS]

  could you know you can go back and forth [TS]

  all day I think your songs are pretty [TS]

  good John I got to tell you you you [TS]

  could put but I mean you put the best 10 [TS]

  AC Newman songs up on the big board yeah [TS]

  your catalog has got a lot of diversity [TS]

  to it I was singing your praises on a [TS]

  podcast that'll come out Thursday about [TS]

  like just the the [TS]

  I'm not here to blow smoke up your skirt [TS]

  but like no I think you what you have [TS]

  released is very super interesting and [TS]

  diverse and very high quality and like [TS]

  your song writing is really really good [TS]

  that's what attractions to you as a [TS]

  performers you just saw your songs are [TS]

  just so good this is a this is an issue [TS]

  though I think in a band because I like [TS]

  I like not a surf a lot but I think [TS]

  their five best-known songs are not as [TS]

  good as your five best non songs I like [TS]

  them a lot don't get me wrong but their [TS]

  songs are their songs sound like not a [TS]

  surf song that's true like The Strokes [TS]

  have no diversity what eighth notes [TS]

  they're into the eighth notes in their [TS]

  sounds all their songs [TS]