The Accidental Tech Podcast

259: I Hired Myself


  I have this vision of something that

  aesthetically looks vaguely like image

  capture where it's basically like a big

  table of here's a little preview of the

  image here's maybe a couple pieces of

  data about it and then here's where we

  think it should end up do you want to

  commit all these changes or like tweak a

  couple things and then there'll be

  basically the Big Green Go button

  that'll actually do it whereas right now

  it just goes immediately and it's

  copying it's not moving so in theory

  it's non-destructive but it would be

  nice to be able to say oh actually that

  definitely is not right let's tweak that

  you know what I mean and so who knows

  maybe in my copious spare time I'll be

  able to write my first Mac GUI app we'll

  see but I'll tell you one thing that is

  ten thousand times more work than making

  like the shell script version oh yes

  like like I I've had similar thoughts

  about you know I should really like

  polish up sidetrack and and make a

  little gooey forest people can like drag

  in their files and take like which

  channel should go where and output this

  the you know undrafted files whatever

  and it like even that that's just like

  especially like now I don't know like

  from forecast and like it's it's so much

  work it like gooeys are so much harder

  to make and like and especially like

  it's one thing if you just want a GUI

  but if you want a good one

  that's very differently if you want like

  a nice Mac app or even like a passably

  decent Mac app like forecast is not a

  nice Mac app it's it's at best like an

  okay passable back app but that's fine

  you know that's you know that I don't

  it's not worth investing you know tons

  and tons of my time into it to make it

  like a great Mac app you know what

  you're talking about like that's that's

  a pretty dramatic increase in the

  workload for this per 100 percent yeah

  yeah and especially especially if you

  don't really need the GUI like this was

  like sidetrack I don't need the GUI for

  sidetrack I call it in my in my giant

  shell scripts that process my site in my

  podcasts and you know someone like Jason

  Snell uses it and he I believe he made a

  automated workflow to use it so he can

  use it kind of kind of in a graphical

  way at least but like a lot like I just

  use it through shell scripts so I don't

  need it so what like it's one of the

  things I would love to do it someday but

  I'm probably never going to because it's

  probably not worth it you know this is

  the kind of thing like if you don't need

  this GUI you're talking about like now

  taking this nice

  small but you know script basically that

  works great for you now you're talking

  about making into a product basically

  like you're talking about the amount of

  work necessary to make it into a product

  for lots of people and then you have to

  deal with you know do you want to

  release that because it once you put in

  all that much of work you probably might

  as well release it then it's a big thing

  then you got to support it or even if

  it's not even if it's free or even as

  open-source you still got to deal with

  people's you know emails and questions

  and pull requests if it's open source

  and everything like you it basically

  dramatically broadens the scope of this

  project from a shell script that works

  for you to this product basically yeah

  and I agree with you I think the thing

  is though that if even if I GUI if I'd

  it if you will it would be the world's

  most ugly user interface because it

  would be intended just for me and at

  most I suspect I would open-source it

  like I'm not saying I'm going to but I'm

  saying with this hypothetical GUI on top

  of it maybe I would open-source it but I

  don't think I would ever like properly

  release it but to that end you're still

  right like I would then feel guilty

  about ignoring all the pull requests

  that I would end up ignoring and I would

  be I would feel guilty about ignoring

  all the issues I'd be ignoring no matter

  how much I said this is really made just

  for me and it's not intended for anyone

  else to use it inevitably somebody else

  would be like oh I should use this but

  now I want something new you know and or

  it didn't work on this one file right

  exactly exactly so this is why I don't

  mean this in like a I don't mean to be

  like an antagonist I don't mean to be

  antagonistic about it just these are all

  the reasons why I don't plan to release

  it because no matter how much I caveat

  no matter how much I say look this was

  written just for me this code I know

  it's garbage but I was it was quick and

  dirty just get it to work like no matter

  how much you say that nobody ever really

  and truly understands it and so it's

  just a it's just a waste of time to

  release this in any capacity even with a

  GUI but and the plus side though that

  means it could be the world's ugliest

  world's worst GUI and it would be okay

  because it would be literally just for

  me like github has changed just a little

  bit introduced and very important modern

  developer skill which is the ability to

  put source code up on

  on github and your under your github

  account and then feel zero guilts for

  ignoring it for the only reason you're

  putting it there is to have a convenient

  storage place so when you need to get

  that shell script on some new Mac that

  you're setting up for we're like

  basically using github as hosting and as

  version control for yourself and hosting

  for yourself and with no intention of

  ever looking at the issues or ever

  answering anyone's questions about

  anything or caring how many people

  forked or like because I see a lot of

  that people have personal projects in

  github that it's so clear that they're

  just using it as like their their git

  remote and communion hosting that's it

  and I'm maybe you you know you said

  you'd feel guilty about or whatever but

  like I think that getting over that and

  eventually getting the discipline to

  reframe the problem in that way can be

  slightly freeing because I think there

  is a benefit to not to having that

  source code like someplace else and to

  have it hosted even just as a single

  user I mean I go you can just make it

  private like a why even make a puzzle

  you could have and make a prep but this

  I know this goes against what I just

  said but every once in a while someone

  will do a convenient pull request or

  find a bug and you can just click a

  button and accept their thing and your

  program got better and you didn't have

  to do anything

  it may be super rare that that happens

  maybe it's once every three years but

  you know I don't know I I just feel like

  that's a that's a good thing to be able

  to do because I feel bad about all like

  because every we all have like piles of

  crap code like on our local computers

  for various purposes and I feel bad

  about all that I somehow I think I'd

  feel better if that crap code was like

  up on a public github page for some poor

  person to stumble across and do with

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  it's time to return to Marcos vinyl

  corner oh no I forgot I forgot my own

  joke mark was vinyl Ark so in the last

  episode of Marcos vinyl Ark where I was

  discussing you know getting this

  turntable and enjoying it and he just

  needed one more turntable and you will

  finally arrived Oh cuz I have a

  microphone you may be oversubscribed in

  the microphone Department yeah anyway

  part of might be appeal what I like

  about it is that it is kind of the anti

  technology that it you just like you put

  on you manually take your hands you put

  a piece of physical media on a player

  that plays it in almost the most basic

  analog way possible like it's it's

  ridiculous how

  basic this technology really is at

  Hardin and how little it's really doing

  and so and I really enjoyed you know not

  only like the anti tech part of it of

  just like being so simple and not

  relying on things like crappy spotty

  voice assistance not relying on Wi-Fi or

  people's weird you know Network stuff or

  you know services or gated communities

  or whatever else just a single purpose

  device you put music on to it and it

  plays and then you get to listen to the

  music and you don't get to you don't get

  to like mess with the music you don't

  get to like skip around super easy or

  change you know speak of it you know

  yell a different band name across the

  room it was no different and before the

  songs even finished yet like we so often

  do with the echo like you have to like

  sit and enjoy it slowly and and that is

  there's a lot of advantages to that

  builds character you might say okay but

  you know as as John rightfully pointed

  out you know you don't need a vinyl

  player to do that you know you can you

  can use like a CD play or an iPod or

  cassette deck or an eight-track if those

  still exist like you can use lots of

  things that can only play music you know

  it's in the more modern way I didn't

  want to just buy an iPod because a that

  that introduces too much choice again

  because then it's like okay now like

  part of it part of what I like about the

  vinyl situation is that it forces me to

  really narrow down what albums I

  actually want to buy like what albums

  are good enough that I actually want

  this giant square sitting in a bookshelf

  indefinitely yeah so so that's you know

  that's that's one angle and also when I

  when I when I want to place music it's

  nice to have restricted choice when you

  have like a cylinder you can speak into

  and you can just name anything in all of

  music and it will start playing that's

  act you know that's nice in certain

  contexts you know it's nice to be able

  to just call up any song if you if you

  want to hear it but if you just want to

  like put something on in the background

  or put something on to like listen to to

  you know chill out on the couch for a

  while or something I find that I'm

  almost paralyzed by the choice of that

  and and I often will just call up the

  same things over and over

  because I just can't think of anything

  else you know off the top of my head you

  know I don't have that kind of whatever

  kind of like creativity of the mind lets

  people like you know call things up or

  create new ideas out of nothing I've

  never really had that like I need like a

  prompt you know I I joked on the show a

  long time ago that I'm not a salad power

  user weren't you when you go to it like

  one of those Trinity salad places and

  like I want a list of presets and I get

  to choose from the presets and maybe do

  some like customization from the salad

  but I really like I just want presets to

  choose from and so one thing I like also

  about the final situation is that when I

  want to go play something I can look

  through the like you know roughly I

  think I have about 20 albums now I can

  look through like the 20 albums and and

  just say look these are one let's do

  right now by Nature they're it's all

  stuff I like you know because we bought

  them so like it's not like I don't have

  to look through every artist ever in the

  history of the world I can I'm already

  looking at stuff I like and I'd be fine

  putting them pretty much any of them and

  you know I'll see what I'm like oh yeah

  let's put on that one but I wouldn't

  have thought to call it up if I if I

  were just given a prompt by voice and I

  go what do you want to listen to I don't

  know so that part's nice as well the

  system is gonna fall apart when you've

  purchased your first 7,000 albums have a

  section of your stacks and stacks of

  them and now you've just recreated your

  iPod in physical form right okay so

  anyway the thing like you know remember

  record collections when we were when I

  was a kid and maybe you remembered well

  like people would fill their houses with

  these things yeah my dad has one yeah in

  fact we we actually we didn't in my in

  my house growing up we had our upstairs

  was it was just like the the three

  bedrooms in the bathroom arranged like

  basically in a giant square with like a

  little tiny like hexagonal hallway in

  the middle that it wasn't even like a

  long hallway it was like a little like

  hexagonal landing basically with like a

  door to each of the rooms and that's it

  and there was nowhere in the house where

  my mom could store her massive record

  collection so in that tiny little

  hallway were just like for like like

  milk crate type baskets filled with

  records and so basically my entire

  childhood growing up I would all the


  stub my toe on these giant boxes of

  vinyl that were sitting in in the

  hallway to our house that I walked

  through constantly it was like squeeze

  between two of them to walk into

  door in my bedroom like yeah big pain in

  the butt anyway

  I'm really enjoying the vinyl however

  there are a couple of limitations

  obviously one of them as John mentioned

  before is that you get like five minutes

  of play time before it flip it over

  especially on these new audiophile

  masters where they take a right they

  take like one album that's on if it's on

  CD it's on one CD but if it's on vinyl

  they split it onto four sides like - two

  discs four sides each one with like

  three songs at best so that's kind of a

  pain and and that that isn't even for

  length reasons like there's these giant

  black gaps in the middle of anyway so

  that's that's a minor pain but one of

  the more you know glaring limitations of

  this is that this only works for albums

  that are available on vinyl and not

  everything and not even just fished not

  everything is available on vinyl that I

  want to listen to in this fashion

  I would like something that I can just

  you know take some kind of physical

  media that it can be in some kind of

  small collection like what I have with

  it with the records and put it into a

  player and have it just start playing

  and to remove all the abilities I have

  with you know a voice assistant whose

  yell across the room to have a change to

  make it not that easy to even like skip

  a song because I actually kind of like

  being forced to listen to all the songs

  that I mentioned last time like I've

  always been a full album listener like I

  don't I don't I don't use shuffle or

  anything we always listen to fill out

  obviously one thing I could do is just

  get a CD player and just get CDs cuz CDs

  cost nothing like if you go on Amazon

  and look to buy used CDs any album you

  want you can buy in a used CD for like

  50 cents plus $4 shipping so I think

  they basically cost nothing and I also

  put I also thought like you know there's

  I also kind of want the ability to make

  my own like maybe certain albums that

  aren't even available on CD or like

  certain like fish shows I want to like

  have a whole show or so you know or like

  a band like the Beatles where I like a

  lot of Beatles songs but I don't like

  any of their albums well enough to play

  them straight through or things like the

  the two Glee Mountains by The Avett


  they're both EPS I would like to have

  that be one

  long CD that's the length of an album

  because they're really good but you know

  it's two very short EPS so anyway so I

  wanted some degree of customizability

  physical media and a way to play it

  where I could literally just put it in

  not navigate any menus of anything not

  even have like the TV on in living room

  just put it in and it can start playing

  and I can walk away

  so again CDs I think are the most

  obvious solution to this these days any

  CD player that you can find that's at

  all reasonable will also be able to play

  mp3 CDs and so that that blows through

  any kind of length limit you might be

  worried about with single discs the

  downside of CDs is that then I would

  have to have a CD burner on my computer

  all the time like I have to like get out

  a CD burner out of my closet and like

  plug it in and deal with that whenever I

  wanted to create a new one of these so I

  want to see if I could do better in the

  last segment that we talked about this a

  few weeks ago I jokingly said why don't

  I just get something that can play songs

  off of an SD card wouldn't it be cool to

  have like a little box full of SD cards

  because and you can make them like tiny

  little record albums like you could and

  I and so basically I decided

  let me try to actually make something

  that does this there's this entire world

  out there that I have not yet taken part

  in of really small really inexpensive

  hobbyist computer gear led by things

  like the Arduino and Raspberry Pi

  projects and the the more basic stuff

  like the Arduino base stuff I haven't

  used any of it before but like once you

  get into things like wiring things on

  bread boards this is beyond my level of

  expertise and and my level of interest

  honestly I don't really want to get into

  the hardware manipulation side of things

  for the most part like anything that

  involves like you know putting resistors

  on soldering anything or using you know

  little does a little waffle board

  breadboard things like I don't that's

  not for me right now

  the Raspberry Pi on the other hand has a

  bunch of really interesting stuff that

  until I started looking at this I really

  didn't realize quite how much stuff

  there was quite how easy it was to use

  and quite how little at all cost okay

  again like I mentioned before like in

  the Apple ecosystem it's kind of like if

  we spend too much time in Apple world

  it's easy to to miss or to not be aware

  of quite how cheap everything else is

  everywhere else like what you can get

  for like under $50 for almost any type

  of category that's not by Apple like

  it's it's pretty remarkable so I decided

  I'm gonna get a Raspberry Pi and I'm

  gonna try to build an SD card audio

  player I ordered the Raspberry Pi I got

  like the I mean and they're seconds

  there's tons of different ones the

  smallest one is like 10 dollars like

  it's it's ridiculous what you can get I

  got like the the kind of regular one

  which the board is about I think $35 and

  I got a little plastic case for if like

  another ten and a little USB power

  supply for another you know five or ten

  or whatever and it's just a Linux

  computer like it's a little tiny Linux

  computer with a remarkable amount of

  hardware and power like it had for as

  for USB ports HDMI out audio out and

  like in composite video if you need that

  for some reason and Wi-Fi and Ethernet

  all of that and one gig of ram and a

  pretty decent ARM processor all with a

  with an SD card that came with it in

  this bundle package with a micro SD card

  that you know has a pre-loaded

  installation of raspbian it's like yeah

  it's like the the debian variant I think

  of for Raspberry Pi you plug it in and

  like I floated this little tiny HDMI

  monitor I got for my video my fail a

  video career and you plug it you plug in

  any keyboard mouse an HDMI monitor and

  it it comes pre-configured like the SD

  card has like you launch it the first

  time and it shows you a GUI you can

  navigate with the mouse you put into it

  and it's like alright pick your

  distribution and we'll install it for


  and you pick whatever it is you plug

  into the network and it downloads the

  distribution with your settings you give

  it your Wi-Fi password during setup and

  then it overwrites itself with the

  distribution that you just picked with

  the Wi-Fi pre-configured like it's it's

  shocking like how good this is and how

  really relatively easy it is to use and

  then I had a Linux computer that was

  ready to go and we're with built-in

  audio built a networking built in USB

  for me to do whatever I wanted with so I

  poked around you know one of the things

  with audio playback that is important to

  me is gapless playback

  so I can't just do like a shell script

  that just like you know calls like

  something like a terminal thing that

  just plays audio synchronously and then

  stops and then goes to the next track

  I want a gapless playback between tracks

  because a lot of the album's I listen to

  our live albums or they have transitions

  between songs and so a gap between

  everything is you know just kind of it's

  jarring and it's kind of you know

  inelegant and so I want a gapless and it

  turns out there's this great music

  player that's been around forever that

  of course I never knew about because

  I've been in Apple land called MPD music

  player daemon and it does gapless like

  with all with no effort like this stuff

  like this software is really advanced

  idea and it the the Raspberry Pi has an

  SD a microSD slot but that's for its

  disk you can't really use it for

  anything else it has to boot off of that

  so I had to add my own card reader but I

  had like a drawer full of card readers

  and it's I made a shell script that

  would respond to the card being inserted

  via you dev it copies any audio files

  off of that card into a temp directory

  and as it's copying it starts playing

  the first one so it's fast response to

  time and then it unmount the card and if

  you remove the card it stops I gotta say

  it took not that much effort and it

  pretty much works and there's a couple

  of things I did with it that I do want

  to want to touch on but it's kind of

  Awesome like I wish I had like it now

  now I'm just like brainstorming like I

  wish I had more things that I needed

  raspberry pies for because I can't

  believe how good and how easy it is to

  use this stuff and how cheap it all was

  like it kind of ignited in me this like

  this this satisfaction and happiness

  that like oh my god I just made this

  awesome little computer do this crazy

  cool thing that I that I've wanted you

  know it's similar to you know we

  mentioned the earlier like the

  satisfaction of being a programmer me

  being a but I have a computer solve a

  problem for you by writing a script or

  something to do it this this was like

  the hardware version of that like I

  wanted a little SD card player to play

  audio and then in a very simple way and

  I just made one and it wasn't that hard

  because I don't know how to use Linux

  and it like it was really so satisfying

  and such a fun little project you know

  we don't get a lot of fun in the Apple

  world like we got some cool stuff and

  but like they they're not they're not so

  big on fun this is just like a fun

  little thing and it was really nice to

  do very satisfying and I'm just so

  thankful to the world of Linux and open

  source software and these amazing

  hobbyist things like Raspberry Pi and I

  even like I even later spend another $30

  to upgrade the the audio interface in it

  with this company called hifiberry that

  just makes a variety of audio i/o boards

  that just stick right on top of the

  Raspberry Pi using the big the big like

  IO header that's that's on it and they

  sell their own little cases that are a

  little bit taller that fit it it's

  amazing and so I made this awesome

  player now there are certain things that

  didn't go so well

  the the idea of automatically detecting

  an SD card being inserted or removed

  does indeed work from you dev but

  doesn't work all the time it's it

  occasionally it doesn't it gets into a

  state where it stops sending add and

  remove events it only sends change

  events so I have I have a little bit of

  a tweak that I need to do there that

  also seems to vary with which card

  reader I'm using one of them seems to

  work more reliable than the others in

  this regard so I'm just sticking with

  that one it's fine also the I guess

  that's where the only major problem oh

  the other problem is like I assumed that

  it would be really easy to like go on

  eBay and buy large lots of used low

  capacity SD cards for very little money

  because you know if you have like it's a

  copy over an album for or even even if

  you encode it with like a lakh or some

  kind of like large or you know flack so

  we had a large codec that's the only

  gonna be like three hundred Meg's maybe

  and so if you have like a car that's a

  gig or a 512 Meg's that's enough for

  this purpose like you don't need larger

  cards than that so I assumed it'd be

  really easy to just go online and get

  like you know lots of used one gig SD

  cards for like a dollar each or

  something or less it turns out it's not

  so easy I don't know where these all are

  but they're not being sold very very

  often so the best I could do is there's

  a couple of vendors that sell ten pack

  of 16-gig cheap cards for about $5 each

  that's insane

  oh my gosh that's cheap yeah exactly I

  understand it's more than you need like

  I totally get what you're driving at but

  man that's cheap 16 gigs and you're

  gonna put an albums worth of mp3 cards I

  can't find smaller cards or at least or

  like the smaller ones are also $5 each

  so it's like well I might as well get

  the 60 gig for the same price I I

  continue to think that you need to take

  this one step farther and put all of

  your music on the internal very large SD

  card that's part of the Raspberry Pi and

  have the thing that you insert basically

  be an amiibo like it's a series of these

  little chips they don't even have to

  have electronics in them they just need

  to have some sort of little code that

  says please play this track that you

  already have on your internal SD card

  that's what you need

  well I bring certain other options so

  you know one option would be like I

  think one of the coolest options would

  be you get one of the little camera

  modules for it and you just show it like

  a little card I'll show it your album

  hold up the vinyl album to it but you

  know a lot of things or things that

  aren't available on final so I'm

  thinking like you know you basically get

  like a little like had like a little

  like card file of like index cards

  nergis like printed album art I just

  hold it up and have it recognize it

  oh wait I've got an idea how about you

  just hook up a microphone then you could

  say what song you wanted to play and it

  would play it Wow

  oh did I ruin it yep a little bit yeah

  good hobby thing would like I just keep

  thinking of these little cards little

  cards I feel like you should maybe get

  some of that spray the Nintendo uses for

  the switch cartridges I'm not sure like

  no small children in your house eat your

  music and just think of what else you

  could do with that spray I mean I know

  hops isn't a cure but you know no he's

  not also and so and I also considered

  others so one thing I considered when I

  was battling you dev for reliability and

  I was thinking like oh hey maybe you

  know that if the problem is that the SD

  card readers aren't reliably telling you

  to have sometimes when things are added

  and removed maybe the solution is to

  either use compact flash cards which I

  didn't I didn't go down that path at

  least not yet and because eventually

  you'd have calmed down

  but I also thought like what about cheap

  little USB sticks like you know your

  thumb drives and because those are their

  own USB complete USB devices so they

  should be more reliable at telling the

  system but then you have to try to put

  them in three times every time you want

  exactly yeah that's that's one and also

  they're just kind of ugly and clunky but

  I did look and they have about the same

  pricing you can get like the those kind

  that you get at every conference ever

  they have like the big flip around metal

  cover like they like swivels around the

  plastic insert like everyone's seen

  these and you can get them printed with

  your logo and everything those cost

  about the same like a few dollars each

  is roughly where your what those costs

  like these are fine solutions and it

  depends on how many of these cards or

  things I intend to have but they're fun

  you know it's I'm probably not going to

  do a whole lot the other downside I

  found with with the SD cards is I had

  this great image in my mind of like you

  know having these wonderful like little

  labels I could that I could print the

  album art onto a label that fits the SD

  card and I'd be able to like flick

  through my little like box of SD cards

  and be able to look at like tiny little

  versions of what the record would look

  like if it was tiny and rectangular and

  I even got the right size labels it

  there there are point 75 by one inch and

  buy and they come in sheets by Avery and

  they're printable but the print quality

  on them is so bad like I have an inkjet

  and a laser and I tried them both and

  they both look horrendous printing on

  these and they're really hard to align

  and oh and also when you put a label on

  an SD card and then put into SD card


  it doesn't fit as well with the rest of

  this project I feel like you should hire

  some sort of artisan who lives in

  Portland to use a single hairbrush to

  hand paint to each one of your things

  onto the SD card yeah like people do

  these sculptures with with like graphite

  from a pencil oh yeah absolutely yeah

  thank and one of those people to do it

  I'll do it for you anyway this has been

  a fun project ultimately I think the

  better solution to all of this is

  probably just a CD burner so I'm really

  I'm really glad I did it

  but and it'll work sometimes but but I

  think I think a CD burner is actually

  the better solution to this problem

  because I can put it right into my

  blu-ray player and it just starts

  playing and I don't need to turn the TV

  on so I I like that problem gets solved

  that way but the downside is I have to

  have a CD burner somewhere on my desk

  see but this is the same thing that I

  just went through in a much different

  scale like the easiest answer for me to

  return that stupid dongle would be to

  throw it away the second easiest answer

  would have been to give it to you PS but

  I wanted to try something different and

  I'm actually really jealous of this even

  though I think this is a truly

  preposterous reason to get into the

  Raspberry Pi I have been searching for a

  reason to teach myself what the hell the

  Raspberry Pi and Arduino are all about

  and I have yet to come up with a good

  reason to do it and so in that sense I'm

  super jealous of what you've done

  because you now know a whole bunch about

  this world that I know absolutely

  nothing about and I want to know about

  and so I I applaud this well I mean I'll

  tell you what though I think you're

  overestimating what what you need to

  know like I was shocked how little I

  need to do like the this entire project

  I've been keeping it basically in one

  shell script on my desktop like one text

  file that right now let me see it's 90

  lines to set up this entire thing that's

  all it's very basic because all I'm

  doing is like responding to a system

  demon with a shell script when when

  things are inserted and removed and

  sending really simple commands to oh I

  gotta go to the control aspect of it as

  well the regular leak you know insert

  the card it plays take out the card it

  stops that's that's done it requires no

  external control or anything but I did

  think you know it would be nice to at

  least have a play/pause button and

  there's a number different ways to do

  this you can get for instance you can

  get buttons like actual physical buttons

  that have little wires on them that you

  can that have little connector on like

  at that plug right into the that big IO

  header on the Raspberry Pi the GPIO

  header and you can run a little python

  service that responds to button presses

  on those buttons really simply like

  that's and that's and I actually got a

  little pair of buttons I ended up not

  using them for

  I'll get into in a minute but but that's

  the thing you can do and again and a

  pair of buttons is like 6 bucks like it

  again I just it's so wonderful how

  inexpensive and affordable the stuff is

  you know I've heard a lot of people talk

  about how they're used in schools where

  you can like at these prices if you can

  get a little computer board for $35 or

  less you can get like one of the $10

  ones or you know you can outfit a whole

  classroom with these things and have

  students doing projects with these

  things like that's incredible and and to

  have it just the the amount of computing

  power and flexibility and hardware that

  you can get like it's a whole computer

  you could a Raspberry Pi could be a

  Linux computer like that you can it

  could be a desktop you can plug a

  monitor and key word a mouse into it and

  use it as a desktop like that like it

  wouldn't be the fastest desktop in the

  world but it's you could still do it

  like and some people do it like this

  it's just incredible what you can do

  with these things like I saw a Steve

  trout and Smith he recently made himself

  a homekit camera by using a Raspberry Pi

  one of the tiny ones with the camera

  module that's available for them in a

  little tiny case and it's like a

  security camera for his house but it's

  home compatible through god knows what

  and it's he and he made it I've had a

  Raspberry Pi for you know probably under

  $50 like that's that's just incredible

  like it's to have this kind of power

  available to people it's it really is

  you know game-changing and I know this

  is not a sudden thing I know this didn't

  just begin yesterday I'm just I'm just

  discovering it I'm late to it and it

  just blows my mind like what's available

  here and it's it's so inspiring to to

  make me want to do more projects with it

  and and for me and this kind of played

  into earlier what I was saying about

  like I wish the home pod had a line in

  like as I'm like dipping my toe in this

  rod just for five seconds like it's

  really obvious to me like you know I

  really do like things being open and I

  really do I see the value in openness

  and and free software and and you know

  just this whole world open hardware open

  software the power that be that the

  technology we have today can can offer

  to us if some of these walls are knocked

  down we're not there in the first place

  anyway one more quick thing I did I did

  decide it let me let me play with you

  know remote control options I

  actually had do you guys know Samuel

  clay and the news blur product that he

  makes mmm well he did he did a

  Kickstarter about I don't know maybe a

  year ago for a little wooden like

  Internet of Things type remote called

  turn touch and I backed it and I got two

  of them and it says little like

  beautiful little square wooden remote

  with four buttons on it it interfaces

  with either I think an iOS device or in

  my case I'm using my Mac Mini server to

  be like the host receiver for it and you

  can map these buttons to do whatever you

  want I made a little interface again

  using bash shell scripting I made a

  little interface on the on the SD card

  player that just uses netcat as like a

  simple command interface that to listen

  for the commands just listen for the

  strings play pause next in previous and

  on the Mac that's hosting the turn touch

  app I mapped it to send using netcat

  shell scripts to go set each of the

  buttons just sends you know play pause

  previous/next you know stop it was again

  like a half hour maybe to get this set

  up I never even had used netcat before

  but I didn't even know it existed but it

  did and it was super easy to seconds to

  make a bash grip that was a network

  service command response in everything

  it's just incredible what you can do

  with this stuff and if you if you have

  like the the Linux chops or the shell

  scripting shops I guess and so now I

  have this little remote that sends basic

  commands through you know through MPC to

  MPD and is play pause and next track

  previous track it's just amazing I

  really do like this world

  I don't immediately have any ideas for

  what else I can do with it

  but I'm gonna keep trying to come up

  with some because it's just so fun as a

  nerd to play with this stuff yeah this

  is super cool I'm super jealous that

  you've come up with all this 2018 year

  of the shell script even if it's written

  in Swift alright so we should do a skate

  EP let's see we're starting with I will

  let you pronounce this John since you

  put this in show notes I'm gonna go with

  Hans Chou lien wow I sound different

  well done John John put this in the show

  notes and the question is I want to

  remove clutter and unused old files from

  my system however not delete them a lot

  or like the like entire unity or blender

  projects I did a few years ago that I

  don't really need anymore however I

  don't want to just delete them because

  too frequently I deleted something

  ancient needed it half a year later

  because of something really specific I

  did there what should I do

  connect to disk drive every time I want

  to quote-unquote offload something burn

  corrupt crap loads of DS CDs or DVDs and

  pile them in a corner by a server and

  put it on an SD ftp server somewhere

  where I dump all those files get an ass

  I'm looking for a reliable solution that

  I would still have access to in 20 years

  I really think just get an ass is the

  easy answer this question but I'm

  assuming that that you guys have other


  so since John wrote this into the show

  that's Marco do you have any immediate

  thoughts then we'll let John give us the

  real answer to me like I've actually

  recently gone through this a little bit

  I mean first of all just told you a

  reason why I might be having a CD burner

  in my desk but I I used to burn first

  DVD arse and then I got the bread the

  bright idea in my head a while ago that

  I should get a blu-ray burner because

  that was the next thing after DVDs and I

  decided oh 25 gigs per disc and then

  later even more that would be great I

  could I can burn an archived discs of

  all my important files and have this

  master set of backups in this big CD box

  in the closet or you know whatever else

  and I started that I did that for a

  little while but it turns out 25 gigs

  isn't that much anymore and even when

  the the fancier like multi layer discs

  came out like a couple years back even

  they they're still not really enough to

  be useful and turns out blu-ray burners

  are finicky and they're a pain and

  they're unreliable and the world of

  blu-ray burning discs is unreliable

  it's there's lots of different formats

  the burners don't always burn them all

  you know

  similarly or are compatible with them so

  you basically have this array of what's

  really quite obscure formats the idea of

  being able to read them in 20 years has

  a lot has a number of problems whatever

  disk format you're writing is not a

  blu-ray movie it's not a blu-ray disc

  and it's very possible that any drive

  you can find in 20 years might

  actually read that physical format the

  second problem you're gonna have is that

  optical discs deteriorate they are all

  based on organic dyes and certain

  assumptions that over time have proven

  to not always be the case if you have

  like even even today like we're a good

  15 years past the heyday of seedy ours

  if you still have CDR is like in your

  closet somewhere you might not be able

  to heed them anymore like they actually

  might have deteriorated to the point

  where you can't read them same thing

  with most DVD our DVDs were a little

  better because they sandwich the organic

  layer between two pieces of plastic

  instead of just having it on the top the

  way CDs did so it's they had a little

  more protection there's still like

  deterioration of the dyes than n layers

  that happens and so it's very light like

  the initial estimates of how long

  recordable media work was supposed to

  last many of them have not been achieved

  and they've had to revise his estimate

  so actually these don't last fifty or

  hundred years or a thousand years they

  actually might last like five years and

  so you have reliability issues there

  there actually was there's one type of

  blu-ray disc called M disc that was

  supposed to last for a millennium

  thousand years and I actually bought it

  I still have a spindle in my closet that

  I bought aspirationally thinking I would

  use them and I never did it's still


  I threw it away last week because it

  supposedly is supposed to solve this

  problem but optical discs are not as

  reliable and long-lasting as we think

  they are they have proven that so far

  and even this you know end this that's

  supposed to last forever and be for

  archival purposes they're brand new

  relatively speaking and so we don't

  actually know like everyone thought that

  recordable you know CDs and DVDs would

  last a long time too and they didn't so

  you can try to simulate some things here

  and there but it's it's not it's it's

  not always dependable and then and you

  know the other thing is like again like

  are you gonna be able front-drive in 20

  years that can read these discs I think

  that's fairly unlikely like you might be

  able to find a drive that reads blu-rays

  but it might not read these blu-rays or

  whatever else like it's I think your

  options are going to be fairly weak

  they're your best option here is to use

  hard drives and

  every few years when when you get larger

  ones move the stuff to the larger ones

  because the only the only way to keep

  data like this really preserved long

  term is to take it with you to move it

  periodically to the new set up if you

  don't do that you are reliant on certain

  technologies being very long-lasting and

  being able to be read forever and that's

  just unlikely to be true meanwhile hard

  drives are huge and relatively cost

  nothing for the amount of storage you

  get like there it's you can get such

  large drives now that if you're if you

  are offloading you know what used to be

  considered large files five ten years

  ago today you can get one hard drive for

  $200 or less that can hold all of them

  probably plus a lot of extra space so

  that's me that's my recommended solution

  is use hard drive somehow whether that's

  in an ass or whether that's just

  external disks that you plug in once a

  year to you know check them and move

  them on to new ones and also by the way

  have some redundancy here like one

  external drive having your only copy of

  something is still just one disk and

  that disk can fail and you can lose

  everything so you know have things on

  multiple disks but the the grand the

  overarching answer to the question is

  don't just leave them in a box for 20

  years keep them moving with you as

  technology moves on as as drives get

  bigger as your setups change and then

  down the road you know maybe just move

  them to cloud storage yeah that pretty

  much covers it the only thing I'd add is

  if you really want to go for like how do

  I do that how do i how do I keep the

  data moving in my large current set

  while making sure every done in C is you

  you know so you want it to be your

  currently active pile of data you want

  that currently active pile of data to be

  backed up and you want it to be stored

  on some kind of thing that has like

  checksumming right well that's a file

  system or a device or some other

  facility to prevent bedrock because

  that's your only remaining enemy once

  you have the data with you active

  constantly moving to bigger and bigger

  storage just got always keep it moving

  bit rot is your enemy because you're

  moving it over the course of a decade

  and if the bits are slowly rotting by

  the time you go to

  pull something out it could be corrupted

  especially if it's something you know

  like a some particular file format or

  whatever that's sensitive to a bit

  flipped here there so yeah I mean it's

  difficult to do but that's you know I

  wish there was an easier answer like

  Marco special magic blu-ray discs but

  there's not you just got it you just got

  to have it all in your currently active

  set of data and it has to be backed up

  and redundant and you have to keep them


  moving on Lois Thompson writes the

  switch has shown that people are willing

  to pay for full blown console games on

  the go why are there no Triple A games

  for iOS or TV OS is it just down to lack

  of bundled controllers or docks

  maybe but to me the obvious answer to

  this question is nobody wants to pay a

  dollar for anything why would somebody

  want to pay sixty of their dollars for

  something on iOS like is there more to

  this than that John well I mean there's

  lots of different controller thing is

  definitely a big one I don't think the

  pricing is that big a deal like didn't

  civilization come out for iPad and it

  was like $60 like it's not like you

  can't put them at that price it's just a

  question of do the people who want to

  play that much money for him in this

  presence Triple A games what they mean

  are Triple A games as they have existed

  on PC and consoles which i think is a

  more it's a it's a different definition

  than just saying Triple A games because

  you might think well that just means

  good games there are tons of good games

  on iOS and you could say maybe they're

  not as expansive because they have to be

  sold for $2 or something like that but

  they're I think they're very good games

  I don't think length determines the

  value of a game but they mean Triple A

  games in the PC console sense which is

  implies a certain amount of production

  values a certain amount of content and

  the people who want to play those games

  aren't on iOS and TV us waiting

  patiently to pay you 60 dollars that

  they have consoles they have pcs that's

  where they are that's where they want to

  play their games

  so making a $60 game and putting it on

  iOS or TV OS is not going to get people

  to buy that game not because it's a bad

  game or people don't want to face it now

  let's take that exact same game and

  offer it on a console and or PC and our

  steam or whatever and it will sell it's

  the same game in both play

  and there's nothing other than the lack

  of controller and you know the lack of

  Apple courting game developers in the

  same way that console makers do and

  Microsoft does right there's nothing

  preventing that game from working fine

  on those on those platforms I mean most

  of the Apple stuff is really more

  powerful than the switch it's just a

  question of where the people are and the

  hardware I definitely has something to

  do with it but it also is just habits

  and where people where people want play

  their games takes a long time to

  dislodge somebody like if you're a PC

  gamer what's gonna get you off that PC

  if you're a console gamer what's gonna

  get you off that console onto TV OS

  thing doesn't ship with a controller

  that doesn't have a lot of games like

  it's a lot of it is just playing inertia

  so I thought that Apple couldn't go for

  it I mean Apple could have made

  something like the switch long ago or

  could turn TV OS into something like a

  television stranded switch in that it is

  like a not too powerful console that is

  small and doesn't require you know

  humongous fans and a giant embedded

  harddrive and everything right the iPad

  could have been the switch well yeah

  unless so because it's less natural

  pairing with a controller but Apple just

  didn't pursue that strategy which is

  fine like they'll battle Apple happily

  sold millions and millions of 99-cent

  games or free to play games that release

  a bunch of people for $20,000 until they

  go bankrupt and lose their house but

  yeah it's it's I don't want to say it's

  mostly cultural but like that's what I

  feel about like the technological

  questions and even like the consumer

  questions you're not where it's at it's

  about it's about like the culture and

  the platform owners have to be motivated

  to change the culture and honestly I'm

  not sure if Apple if it would be a good

  move for Apple do that we always say you

  know the gaming market is there for

  Apple to take it but they're taking a

  different slice of the gaming market and

  who's to say that Apple you know we put

  all the stock in like Oh Triple A games

  as they exist on PC and consoles but

  that's just you are where we're coming

  from culturally that we think those are

  the big games but are those companies

  more successful making more money than

  Apple's currently making selling $1

  games it really depends on what your

  value I continue to think Apple doesn't

  understand games and doesn't really care

  about them and so I think it's perfectly

  natural for

  the games and the game customers to go

  elsewhere yeah I think you pretty much

  covered it I would just add that I do

  think there's a lot of value in the

  limited number of games that's available

  on a game console like like if you if

  you buy a switch and you want to play

  some games on it well you don't have 10

  billion games available for free to $1

  the to choose from there you have a you

  know vastly smaller number even when

  there's lot of games for a console it's

  still like a vastly smaller number

  compared to like you have on iOS and and

  those games have been vetted to a much

  larger degree like the the quality

  standards that are enforced by a company

  like Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft for

  their consoles are way higher and way

  more strict than what Apple enforces in

  the App Store so there's certain minimum

  barrier there and even you know and

  honestly it's not so great for like you

  know inclusion and diversity of game

  makers but it's also usually more

  expensive to develop these platforms or

  at least there's barriers in place it's

  not as easy as signing up for an Apple

  Developer membership and and it's

  sometimes it's more expensive as well so

  there are these barriers in place to

  getting the games onto these platforms

  there are much higher restrictions put

  in place by the vendors these platforms

  and all the games on these platforms are

  you know by iOS standards

  extraordinarily expensive by being like

  you know 15 dollars and up basically you

  know a good triple-a game is 50 or 60

  bucks and and you know even though even

  the indie games you know it's like

  stardew valley or even like some of the

  smaller ones they're like you know $10

  $15 etc O'Brien up stardew valley it's a

  good point because on the PC that has

  all the advantages of iOS anyone can

  make one it's much more open you don't

  have to get an sdk from Nintendo or Sony

  or Microsoft you know as you pointed out

  when you talk about started Valley was

  made by one person no one was stopping

  him from doing that he didn't get have

  to get App Store approval to make it he

  did have to get on Steam which was kind

  of app story but there's no reason he

  couldn't just sold that on his own

  website with stripe or PayPal or


  so it has almost all the advantages of

  iOS in terms of openness depending on

  where you go but you know as the console

  side very curated very very narrow very

  simple to choose from and console gamers

  or the people who go in that direction

  and PC gamers or the people who say yeah

  but I want all the choice of steam

  including all the crap weird games for

  the chance to be the first person to

  play stardew valley because I'm assuming

  the PC version came out first just

  because that's the easiest platform to

  develop for if you're a single developer

  you're not gonna be dealing with Sony or

  Microsoft or Nintendo is BS to get your

  game off the ground yeah and also like

  you know because the the game the game

  consoles have so many fewer games and

  because the standards are so much higher

  and because they you know there's all

  these it they're basically like a a much

  smaller number of generally much better

  games on the consoles and you have an

  iOS that also means that like the

  promotion is very different the the

  storefront is very different you know

  you don't have in the App Store on iOS

  you're competing against everything in

  the world whereas if you go on a switch

  and you go to the eShop on switch your

  only choices are premium price games you

  know whether that's $15 or 60 dollars

  like those are your only choices and

  because this these standards are higher

  the whole market behaves differently

  first of all you can go read reviews and

  you can see how good they are but you

  can also probably just buy a game that

  like like when mario odyssey came out we

  just bought it because we knew like

  chances are that this is going to be a

  very good game because of reputation and

  nintendo and what we heard about it and

  that iOS you just don't really have that

  as much and and your battle with

  everything else and consumers if you go

  to the App Store and a game is priced at

  $40 or more like you're never gonna drop

  that on an iOS game because your

  expectations of whether that's going to

  be worth it or good or not are by

  necessity way lower you know the reality

  is the App Store ecosystem on all sides

  is set up to incentivize and reward

  certain types of behavior and it's you

  know it culminates in these free-to-play

  social manipulation games and that's

  what the app store in

  Courage's that's what it gets like it's

  like that the entire store is set up in

  a way that encourages promotes and

  rewards abusive in-app purchase free

  games and so that's what they're gonna

  get tons of and that's going to succeed

  that's what Apple's going to promote

  because it sells more of their devices

  and all these you know free allegedly

  games and you know it's it's a vicious

  cycle I don't see how they break out of

  that I also would not discount the

  controller question too much because

  there's a lot of game types that gamers

  who are willing to pay 60 bucks for a

  game enjoy playing that either are

  unplayable or really inferior on a

  touchscreen now granted there's also

  types of games that you know work on a

  touchscreen that would suck on a console

  but the fact remains that there's a lot

  of very popular established triple-a

  game types that are very cumbersome to

  play on a touchscreen without some other

  kind of controller or a mouse or

  something and so I think that also plays

  into it too to a lesser degree but I

  think that the bigger the bigger problem

  is simply that difference in the market

  place and styles of how you buy games

  what games are available to buy how you

  find them how they're promoted what what

  your other options are on those

  platforms etc you know if I don't buy a

  $60 game on my switch there's not much

  more I can do with the switch like if I

  don't buy you know a secret or game on

  the iPad I have 10 billion free games to

  choose from instead and so like there's

  a reason where the market goes it goes

  the way that it goes and the cultural

  differences even even comes up in the

  controller thing right so Nintendo when

  they made the new console they put a

  touchscreen on it because they recognize

  there's a bunch of games that benefit

  from touchscreens and even just the non

  game stuff like it's nice to have a

  touchscreen and it's got a controller on

  the flip side Apple said oh yeah we'll

  have a way you can use controllers with

  their Apple TVs but we're not gonna

  build one like it it's a

  misunderstanding games like if you're

  making a game thing you're like we

  should put a touch screen on just in

  case someone wants to make it touch

  we're here but they won't be able to use

  it when I come to their TV yeah but

  we're still putting it on there like

  it's we should just do it because we

  care about games and maybe there's some

  awesome game that we don't want to miss

  out on by not having a touchscreen even

  though you can

  use it when I talk to the TV and we're

  making this consult they can go most

  places just put the touch screen in

  whereas Apple can't even bring

  themselves to sell to make their own

  controller let alone bundle a

  third-party controller with it they'll

  just like will sell third-party

  controllers in our stores and if someone

  wants when they can get it and you know

  they flip-flopped on whether it's read

  you were allowed to require it in games

  it just shows that Apple's you know just

  not that into games and just doesn't

  have the the mindset that a real game

  maker would get would would have which

  is like can we conceive of a cool game

  being made by this I'll look at all

  these touch games on those platforms we

  should make sure we're not excluded from

  that so please put a touch screen on the

  switch and they did all right thanks to

  our sponsors this week hover Squarespace

  and fracture we will see you next week

  now the show is over

  they didn't even mean to begin because

  it was accidental oh it was accidental

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let

  him cuz it was accidentally was

  accidental and you can find the show

  notes at ADP and Twitter you can follow

  them cas pyl is esta that's Casey less

  ma RC o AR m auntie Marco Arment SI r AC


  so apparently if you really want to get

  things done you should have a baby

  because as soon as you have a baby your

  application and do a YouTube video and

  who knows the case will be doing Maxie's

  got all this free time he just needs to

  fill with new hobbies yes so so tell us

  about this so so you you reviewed an SUV

  so how we actually talked about this on

  the forthcoming episode of analog which

  as we talked tonight is not released and

  and will probably be released after this

  episode of ATP is because that's the

  schedule we're on but I had the car was

  it last week I believe and Alfre may

  austell vo which is their new more

  reasonably new SUV they were like hey we

  can give it to you mid-january and I was

  like oh sure I guess I know I'm gonna be

  home but that's gonna be a busy time so

  I'll just see what I can do and in short

  it was actually a really nice truck like

  trucks are not my thing just in somebody

  pointed helped via Twitter you know I'm

  saying that it despite saying oh I'm

  probably gonna buy a Wrangler soon but

  generally speaking trucks are not my

  thing but this thing and actually a lot

  of people wouldn't even call it a truck

  but that's neither here nor there yeah

  but whatever at all car is not usually

  my thing but this was actually really

  nice there are some problems with it but

  all told it was reasonably quick handled

  stunningly well for for a car that does

  that tall and I really liked it

  like I don't know if this would be what

  I would choose if I were to buy a car

  but I can see how one could end up with

  this over like an x3 or an Audi q5 or

  something like that cool well I really

  enjoyed your video I think I don't

  really have any a peanut about the car

  but you continue to be like

  frustratingly improving quickly at

  making videos like you started out way

  better than I thought you would no

  offense like I just thought it was a

  hard problem and then you know video 2

  is even better and so yeah pretty cool

  well thanks yeah I mean I'm pretty proud

  of the video like there's definitely

  problems don't get me wrong it's not

  flawless by any means but I am pretty

  pleased with how it turned out and I

  feel like I've made a lot of I've made a

  lot of positive steps

  and again there's gonna be a fairly

  in-depth discussion about this on analog

  we'll talk about it or I mean I'll link

  it in the show notes but if you're

  listening to this you may or may not be

  able to click that link and get to

  anything because yeah the analog episode

  isn't out yet but no I'm pretty pleased

  with the video it was shorter which I

  think was good I probably still could

  have cut something from it and there

  were probably some places where I could

  have tightened it up a little bit but

  all told it I'm pretty darn pleased with

  how it came out I think the biggest

  issues with the prior video with the

  Giulia were were that I was not

  particularly effusive or I mean maybe

  not effusive but I wasn't particularly

  interesting I guess you could say like I

  was kind of monotone and kind of just

  there and additionally the audio was

  just garbage as we talked about ad

  nauseam previously now the audio

  accepting one section I think was pretty

  darn good yeah I definitely clipped in a

  few spots which was unfortunate but you

  know all told it was pretty good

  and I think I was a much more

  interesting person to watch this time

  which is also good but there's still

  plenty of room to be improved you know

  you could see me in the reflection of

  the car and a bunch of spots which in a

  perfect world wouldn't have happened

  there were some there was some video I

  shot before I had a chance to very very

  quickly wash the car because it had

  rained like the day after I got it or

  something like that so it was dirty and

  a few of the shots which in a perfect

  world I wouldn't have done it one of the

  shots I didn't realize that my bucket of

  equipment was in the background which I

  regret but I mean I'm not gonna sit

  there and like Photoshop it out or

  anything like that so all told I'm

  really pleased with the video the car

  was very very nice if he wanted

  something that's more interesting than

  like an x3 I think it's a it's a very

  reasonable choice this particular car

  was mildly optioned and it priced at

  about $55,000 and there are some things

  that I really wish it had like I wish it

  had a little bit of autonomous driving

  capability I very much wish it had

  carplay and I think there is either an

  option package where it could have had

  car play or it's coming soon I'm not

  entirely clear based on Alfa Romeos

  website but I couldn't think

  a way to turn it on on this particular

  car you know all told it was a very very

  nice car that if you wanted something

  more interesting than just another x3 I

  could see going for this cool yeah any

  other thoughts John I'm surprised you're

  so quiet you haven't told me how ugly

  this is yet it's because it's an SUV but

  when I compare it to its contemporaries

  and not compare it to actual cars the x3

  is just gross all those little luxuries

  sport utility vehicles are mostly gross

  the Audi ones are okay Infiniti ones are

  horrendous anyway I was surprised you

  didn't compare it to the Volvo I mean

  you know you haven't done the volvo

  video yet but it's the other SUV thing

  that you have the most experience with

  and it's similar price range so I mean

  you kind of alluded to it like look if I



  the funding is if I cut your Amazon

  story we can always refer back to it as

  member caseys Amazon story and nobody

  will be like this enigma no one's ever

  heard because we won't tell them cases

  Amazon story and like like case he's not

  gonna bring it up again the next time

  you bring something to the lockers next

  time you return a $15.00 dongle he's

  spending like two hours of your life to

  return this $15 thing it was not two

  hours you bastard but yes I understand

  your point there's two hours of our

  lives no no no everything's changed and

  now it's gonna be all screwed up I blame

  you duh what's your middle name Charles

  Chester Casey no Craig mm-hmm no really

  what is it John Craig got it yes I

  didn't know I can tell if you were

  trolling me and that was a federighi

  joke I know how to pronounce it I know

  what the middle name is boom I'm the

  better friend well now that we've got

  that sorted no anyway John Craig

  Syracuse oh you need to grow up and get

  a proper microphone like an adult I'm

  really loud in my own ears who knows

  what you're gonna get here you want

  anything - no is a are you recording and

  B are you clipping those the only

  concerns I have but I know I can't top

  I'm clipping I got the little meter

  thingies and they never reached the top

  does that mean I'm not clipping yes good

  but but can I make them reach the top

  test test if it clips so which are you

  are you talking with the meters that are

  in audio hijack peak slash RMS it's the

  box right next to the input and and I

  blow white bars or hanging at the oven

  can I get them to go you know I can't

  get the top good your turn red they stay

  orange the whole time then you're not


  but those claps those claps should have

  pushed it up that was me that time that

  was me that time then I saw a little red

  on my they do not turn red good best

  episode ever

  no I'm clapping we'll just have to keep

  you nice and calm so your voice doesn't

  get raised

  yeah the Mac Pro man you know I love

  maximizing all my windows space this is

  the one true way actually really I think

  that's true but wait John are you a VI

  or Emacs guy I don't even remember but

  Marco knows hmm you know what how is

  being tested yes my middle name doesn't

  know if I know yeah so now wait I'm

  gonna try I'm gonna try to guess very

  disappointed I'm gonna guess because

  John is old and picky

  I'm gonna guess Emacs is that right I'm

  interested in your reasoning why is old

  anything he just usually like is Emacs

  older yeah I don't think it is probably

  not but but I think it's demographic is

  so what was I right about a million

  podcast never never wavering I actually

  agree with you I think it's Emacs all

  the way but I am surprised that a man of

  your pickiness thinks that VI is is not

  better you guys are nuts

  I think anyone who enjoys VI is a true

  to form animal like what kind of monster

  would enjoy using VI I wouldn't say I

  enjoy it I I would say I hate it less

  than I hate e^x anyway we should move on

  who ordered a home pod because I believe

  all of us were pretty tepid about it

  weren't we so did either of you guys

  order a home pod I will tell you that I

  did not I mean we know John probably

  didn't right no John hate spending money

  so of course it well we have now made

  show history none of the three of us is

  the brand-new Apple product Wow haribol

  at this I'm really disappointed in us

  like you know I mean I covered most of

  it last week but like you know as the

  pre-order period passed and went and and

  as you know some people are you know

  having those like hour-long sample tests

  with them and PR and everything it just

  it sounds like okay they focused on

  their strengths they focused on you know

  the audio engineering side their

  weaknesses are you know things like the

  home assistant area and the low cost

  they didn't focus on their weak sides

  which is probably smart but they ended

  up making a product that I don't think I

  have not only a need for but I don't

  even think I have a place in my house

  where it could go that would make sense

  it can't go in my living room because

  only the TV speakers serve that and it

  can't be my TV speakers and I also don't

  want treatment TVs because I have nice

  TV speakers already it can't go in the

  kitchen because the home of the

  assistant part of it is not good enough

  you know frankly it just not good enough

  like what the things we do most often

  things like timers on on the Amazon echo

  in the Amazon echo has really good

  timers now you can name them you can

  have multiple timers running at once so

  you can say hey Amazon thing set an oven

  timer for 14 minutes hey I was on things

  said I rotate the thing in the oven

  timer for seven minutes like you can you

  can stack them up like that and you can

  have like when you're cooking and when

  you have like multiple things going it's

  a lifesaver and then it beeps and tells

  you your rotate oven timer is done like

  it's just it's so convenient and and

  pretty advanced these days the Siri

  functionality on the home pod if it's

  anything like other Siri functionality

  it's not gonna be good at that kind of

  stuff you know me it might be able to do

  a little bit of it I think we I think we

  know that I can do like one timer I mean

  because the iPhone can't even do

  multiple timers or name timers like a

  Siri on the phone can't even do that so

  I don't expect you know Siri on the on

  the home pod to be that much better in

  that regard so it seems like this is

  really just focused on music but it's

  music only with these restrictions and

  only for certain environments and

  there's nowhere in my house that I

  listen to music that either doesn't

  require the more advanced home assistant

  functionality of the echo in the kitchen

  or doesn't have requirements the home

  pod can't satisfy like in my living room

  we don't listen to music in the bedrooms


  in my office I listen to music mostly on

  headphones and when I do use my speakers

  it's it's because I need to play music

  from my computer which the home pod

  can't do even if I had one I don't even

  know where where I would put it in my

  house so yeah I just I passed and it

  feels really weird for a major Apple

  product lunch to go by that I'm not

  buying and I'm not really excited about

  but this product is just so boxed in in

  in what it serves and what it's good at

  and what it can't do that

  it just it boxed itself right out of my

  life well it has competitors if you

  didn't have an echo any Amazon stuff you

  probably would've bought this visi you'd

  be like oh I've been meaning to try

  these cylinder things and here's an

  Apple one so I'll try it

  mm-hmm I don't have any Amazon stuff not

  you Marco I'm just saying I am that


  ya know you you are anti Solon's are

  entirely so you're just continuing your

  cylinder cap on a second Marco totally

  would have bought this if he didn't

  already have a product that he liked

  better because he still would have been

  at the point of like I don't know about

  these cylinders or whatever and then

  eventually I pull to come up with him he

  would have tried it well I'm like I

  don't even have the the very common

  excuse of I need this for testing my app

  because my app can't do anything with

  the home pod like until Siri has

  basically like audio app support which

  as I mentioned I said look I don't I'm

  not expect that to happen in time soon

  because that would also enable Spotify

  and other services like that and so you

  know it's possible as we mentioned last

  everybody see when when Sirikit updates

  came and went and there was no audio

  thing like it's possible that he's

  haven't gotten to it yet and that they

  do intend to do it at some point later I

  would say this summer this WDC is kind

  of like the the do-or-die point here

  like if they don't add some kind of

  music app support this summer I think it

  becomes increasingly likely that the

  explanation is they don't want to do it

  for competitive reasons which is not

  good I really hope that isn't what's

  happening but right now like I don't

  even have anything meaningful to test

  with overcast on the home pod because

  airplay 2 isn't done yet you get a bunch

  of good ideas and slack remind me and

  overcast to play the latest ATP yeah I

  can make overcast a to-do app like yeah

  can you make overcast a workout app and

  a to-do app and every month yes I that

  would be funny to attempt that but it

  would be not only clumsy but there's no

  way Apple above that stand for more than

  a week that would be a waste but it's

  just like I just there's nothing for me

  to do with the home pod and I suppose

  like it's healthy for me as a human

  being to not just buy every product

  Apple releases but it just feels weird

  there's a major launch that and and none

  of us are buying it

  yeah I think I actually have a place

  in my house where I could put this cuz

  in in the living room I have a free

  Google home mini thing that I got it

  came free with some other thing but just

  convenient makes it so you know you can

  ask questions and kids can ask how to

  spell words or to find things and stuff

  like but you can't play any music on it

  because it's you know it's the mini and

  it sounds like a tinny little speaker

  and I do have my speaker sock up to my

  TV but there's no way to talk to them

  and they're mostly turned off all the

  time unless someone's watching TV and

  really they're not ideal for music

  anyway so if I had a nice like speaker

  thing they could fill the room with

  sound which is what this thing could do

  and I could talk to it there is a place

  for that in my life and I would just you

  know stick it in my living room and I

  have an easier way to fill the living

  room with much better sounding sounds

  and then Google home anything can

  provide but I mine it doesn't you know I

  don't like the idea that it would be

  tied to my Apple ID and I don't like the

  idea that I could talk to it but not

  well and so I'm taking a wait-and-see

  like eventually when the software

  catches up and it supports multiple

  people and they can understand who's

  talking to it and it can you know

  connect to both my phone and my wife's

  phone and like it's eventually when the

  software catches up I probably will buy

  one of these to fill exactly that

  function to basically fill my living

  room with better sounding sound I don't

  know if it'll ever get to the point

  though where I can talk to it and have

  it play like any song because I

  subscribe to will play music and I don't

  see myself subscribing to Apple music

  just to be able to talk to this speaker

  because I have to subscribe to google

  play music to get no ads on YouTube

  because of the way Google structures

  things Google ever changes its YouTube

  red whatever family plan thing that I

  get so that I don't have to play for

  google play music anymore but I can

  still the whole family can still be ad

  free on YouTube then I would probably

  subscribe to help music and try it but

  for now I'm just kind of stuck in this

  you know this weirdly carved out problem

  space of streaming service and ad free

  YouTube and you know and this is the

  capabilities of the home pod I'm a

  devout Spotify user I admittedly have

  not tried Apple music since

  was brand-new and as such I've been

  debating you know maybe I should try it

  again but two of the playlists that

  Spotify comes out with every single week

  for every single user is I believe they

  were called discover weekly which is

  just hey given the entirety of Spotify

  library and given what we've noticed you

  listening to so far here's so other

  music that we think you would enjoy and

  that comes out on Mondays and then on

  Fridays there's release radar which is

  similar but limited to just new or new

  ish releases so here's something that's

  brand new that just entered Spotify and

  we think you might enjoy

  and those two playlists are tremendous

  and I love them and beyond that Spotify

  is is a couple of really great apps it

  is one of the few apps that is electron

  or equivalent that doesn't make me that

  doesn't remind me of that every time I

  use it unlike slack and on the on the

  iPhone it's a really great app and

  what's wonderful about it is if I

  accidentally as I often do leave Spotify

  open everywhere any Spotify client that

  is signed in as the same Spotify user

  can control any other Spotify client so

  I could control my phone from my

  computer or vice versa and that becomes

  useful if your airplane to something

  else that's awesome yeah so any so I

  could have my phone airplane to my Apple

  TV but control it from my computer if my

  computer happens to be right in front of

  it whatever the case may be so like I

  said I have not tried Apple music in a

  while but there's a lot to love about

  Spotify and I've been a loyal Spotify

  users since it came to the United States

  and I've been paying for it since it

  came to the United States so if the home

  pod supported Spotify like if I could

  say you know cylinder play such-and-such

  on Spotify I think there's a pretty darn

  good chance I would be getting one what

  is it a week from Friday and I probably

  would have pre-ordered it but given that

  it is tied to Apple music and right now

  I don't particularly care for Apple

  music this is kind of a non-starter to

  me and it's really unfortunate because

  I've been thinking about this a lot and

  we'll talk about it I think over the

  next couple of weeks because I have a

  few topics

  which we may not get to this week to

  discuss this but I I don't like that

  that whole like Google mantra especially

  from years ago of like oh we're open

  we're open and we do things because

  we're open and you can do whatever you

  want with our stuff cuz we're open like

  that's just like open for open sake is

  just cheesy and I don't really care

  also I mean Google's case they're often

  using it as a total marketing BS thing

  like it's a there's open and there's

  Google and those occasionally intersect

  a little bit but they're not usually

  that intersecting yeah I completely

  agree with you

  but this is a case where this sort of

  gated community really bums me out that

  that I can't use the music streaming

  platform that I prefer with the physical

  speaker that I would probably really

  love I have been so far I am so far

  behind on podcast like I haven't

  listened to what was it query that was

  on relay that um had serenity Caldwell

  discussing her experience with home pod

  is that right I think I have that right

  well whatever it is I'll put a link in

  the show notes and so I haven't listened

  to that yet but I'm really looking

  forward to yes query number 23 I'll put

  it in the show notes and certainly

  Caldwell was able to get some hands-on

  time with the home pod and apparently

  spent basically an hour discussing it on

  on this episode of query which is a

  really great podcast with with Steven

  Hackett so I have no chance listen to

  that all I've heard through the

  grapevine from the little I've been

  paying attention to is that the home pod

  really does sound really great and you

  know what that sounds good to me let it

  pardon the pun but that sounds good like

  I could see me putting this in my living

  room even as a redundant set of speakers

  just because I could see screaming

  across the room

  hey cylinder play you know the latest

  album by Radiohead on Spotify or

  something like that and that would be

  pretty awesome like one of my favorite

  things about one with a brief window

  time I used Apple music was being able

  to use Siri with it especially on my

  phone but because this is this is a

  walled garden that that Spotify isn't

  allowed in and actually to that end

  overcast isn't either in terms of of

  Siri support this is this is a

  non-starter to me like I'm just not

  interested in it and

  and that kind of bums me out because

  which is stupid right like it bums me

  out that I can't send some faceless

  corporation another 350 dollars of my

  money like that's so dumb but I don't

  know like a few years ago I would be

  excited about this sort of thing and now

  I'm kind of like huh that's too bad I

  wish I could get excited about this but

  I can't and I know that there's like

  some capitalism like capitalism thoughts

  and stuff is evil etcetera etcetera but

  I don't know this is just a silly thing

  that used to make me happy and a new

  Apple thing used to always make me happy

  even when I claimed it wouldn't it have

  any inevitably did but and maybe that'll

  be the case here - who knows but I don't

  know man I'm just bummed because I want

  to be excited about it and I just can't

  bring myself to you know I guess we're

  all in the same page but I guess we all

  don't like music as much as we like

  television and movies because multiple

  multiple streaming services right for

  video we all subscribe to Netflix right

  how many people subscribe to something

  else besides Netflix I have HBO whatever

  right and Casey anything else definite

  so recurring subscriptions are Netflix

  and Spotify and I think that's it for us

  maybe cases uneven footing but Markos

  got twice as many video as audio

  services Grande it's just two to one I

  have like seven times as many video

  services wait nope you're wrong I

  subscribe to Apple music and Amazon

  music whatever on the echo oh so I'm

  tied alright but but it's I think it's

  different because like with streaming

  services I think you have way lower of a

  percentage of overlap if you look at

  like the Venn diagram of each one's

  catalogs right video streaming services

  I feel like there's a lot less overlap

  between each one's music streaming

  services the overlap of those Venn

  diagram circles of what they have is

  like almost identical to call mostly on

  top of each other yeah so you don't feel

  like you're getting anything extra I

  mean yeah it feels redundant to pay for

  multiple uses whereas it doesn't feel

  redundant to pay for multiple streaming

  services there's different content on

  them yeah I suppose although but there's

  probably lots of exclusive content we

  just don't know what it is because you

  know maybe you're into classical music

  maybe one

  like all the class of me is gonna when I

  scrap or none of them I fish you know

  foreign music none of them have fish

  right but if one of them did that would

  be a differentiator oh no I think

  Spotify has a fair bit of fish doesn't

  it not they don't know but not all the

  live shows actually live fish has their

  own app and with other you think the

  restroom service that has has all the

  stuff yeah well anyway what I'm getting

  at is like why you know why is it I play

  for Google Play and I won't play valve

  music part of it might be the overlap

  but like I don't have that problem in

  video there's a lot of overlap in the

  video services but all when I envision

  the video services it's like look the

  only reason I'm subscribing to the CBS

  thing is for the one Star Trek show like

  in the worst case scenario it's like I'm

  literally subscribing for a single show

  because it's the only place I can get it

  it's a hundred percent exclusive right

  and these video services pay to have

  exclusive content created for them

  that's what brings me to them I'm not at

  this point I'm no longer subscribe to

  Netflix to see a bunch of like their

  back catalogue of movies it's purely for

  original Netflix series we don't have

  that in the music space but anyway I'm

  what I'm getting as I'm paying you know

  tens of dollars for all these services

  every single month and it doesn't bother

  me but also paying for Apple music just

  feels like yeah and I think that mostly

  for me anyway it's because I I watch

  much more television movies than I

  listen to music because there's a fact

  right I mean and even in scenarios where

  I would be listening to music most of

  the things of podcasts which you know so

  what does all this say that I don't

  think the cylinder market is uniquely

  hosed it is hosed in very similar ways

  to the sort of the balkanized

  video market it's just that the video

  market I guess feels better because of

  the original content although it doesn't

  feel great I mean I you know when I

  resist adding up exactly how much money

  I'm paying every month for all my video

  services because I think it's a pretty

  big number going back one more minute to

  what you said a few minutes ago Casey

  about like the the kind of feeling of

  openness that you that you want or or

  seek from this product that you can't

  get hmm so for reasons I'll get into

  later in the show I've kind of been

  thinking similar lines recently or

  having similar sensibility and I you

  know the the fact that the home

  has no equivalent or to basically a line

  in port

  like maybe airplay one might be that

  equivalent to put like basically it has

  no line in port this

  I feel like limits its lifetime in a way

  that people who buy speakers I think are

  gonna be disappointed with this long

  term like if you look at the iPod hi-fi

  the famous flop Apple product well you

  know what

  the iPod high-five for the very few

  people who spent the crazy amount of

  money to buy it which actually I think

  was four hundred dollars right it's not

  that different from the price of the

  whole but I thought maybe anyway it was

  350 by the way okay yeah so he Co but

  like for the few people who bought those

  or who got them later off eBay as a joke

  like you know like I know Jason snow and

  Steven Hackett both have them and they

  both still use them now the the iPod

  hi-fi the main input was an iPod 30-pin

  dock connector on the top but it also

  had a line in port on the back and so

  this speaker that by all accounts is

  actually a pretty decent speaker is

  still useful today what is it a decade

  after it came out something like that so

  like it's still useful today

  because it's just a good speaker and

  good speakers don't go out of date good

  speakers are always good speakers I mean

  eventually maybe the cones could rot but

  it takes a very long time like a good

  speaker is useful way beyond the

  lifetime of a typical tech gadget and

  people who buy good speakers and who

  value good speakers know this because

  every good speakers ever bought has been

  this way and you know Casey like you

  know your your parents and and you know

  and my parents were both like you know

  super into music and hi-fi systems and

  you know we both grew up listening to

  speaker systems that were decades old

  and you know at many of those components

  still work today decades later that's

  exactly true so my dad's fancy fancy

  fancy stereo is 15-20 years old at this

  point and I know he has T loud speakers

  are now I'm having second thoughts I'm

  pretty sure he has T loud speakers

  there's a second set of speakers a

  second stereo in his house that is like

  that I believe they're Dahlquist s-- and

  i am almost sure he had those in his

  dorm room when he was a kid and my dad

  is 60 and change and he was in college

  when he was like 20 so he

  her point I think you might have had to

  replace a cone here there something like

  that but i % agree with what you're

  driving at that good speakers can last

  not literally forever but effectively

  freaking forever yeah in the tech world

  they last forever like you know relative

  to other products that we use and so the

  iPod hi-fi this this speaker that came

  out forever ago and was a flop is still

  totally functional today for the few

  people who have them because it had a

  line in jacket it has like this escape

  valve that like this future proofs this

  thing for a very long time you know and

  the home pod I understand why Apple's

  positioning it so much as like a good

  speaker because I said like that's

  playing to its strain sanding and trying

  to position it away from Apple's

  weaknesses in this product that's good

  but a good speaker is expected to last

  and to be useful you know if you're

  gonna be spending $350 for a good

  speaker and and that's just for one by

  the way like I think a lot of people are

  gonna end up wanting to for the way it

  feels bitten you know larger rooms

  better mm-hm you know if you can be

  spending this kind of money on a speaker

  it is convention in the industry that

  that speaker lasts and it doesn't have

  to last 50 years you know I I understand

  there's like complex processors going in

  there and lots of different tweeters and

  everything like that so it's more

  complex than most speakers but if this

  thing is a flop your and you know

  there's no guarantee that it will be but

  I'm saying like this thing is a flop and

  support for it dwindles and in the

  software over the next you know five 10

  years whatever if you have one of these

  10 years from now if it has a line

  import you can still use it but if like

  the software ecosystem dries up or moves

  on this thing is now useless and I

  understand a lot of tech products are

  this way now this is honestly how much

  of Sonos has operated I'm in fact almost

  all of Sonos works this way and that's

  one of the reasons why I kind of don't

  like it but it just kind of rubs me the

  wrong way that like this product is so

  dependent on its internet connection the

  series servers backing it up and the

  proprietary airplay protocol and things

  like that that it's it makes it really

  hard to envision this thing being useful

  in 10 years yeah and to that end it's

  super surprising to me like you were

  saying that there's no just like

  input Jack and you are on here and I'm

  looking at the home pod specs and it

  says where is this it says shoot I just

  lost it

  lalala audio sources there we go it says

  Apple music itunes music purchases Eike

  Eike loud music library with an apple

  music or iTunes Match subscription which

  by the way is very cool I'm glad that I

  choose in iTunes mattress supported

  because I do still subscribe to that I

  guess that is another audio service to

  John's point earlier anyway

  beats will i/o beats one live radio what

  is it always on worldwide podcast that's

  still our play I think podcasts play a

  worldwide airplay other content - home

  pod from iphone ipad ipod touch apple TV

  and Mac you'll note that Bluetooth is

  not listed in the audio sources section

  however in the wireless section it lists

  802 11 AC Wi-Fi with mi mo direct guest

  access whatever the crap that means in

  Bluetooth 5 so I don't know if bluetooth

  is supported or not and again I

  apologize if I should know this but I

  have not had time to read up on any of

  this stuff lately but it is quite

  possible that that your point Marco

  airplay is the only way to get

  quote-unquote other audio into this

  thing and that just Sevilla and I am I

  love airplay like it has its problems

  don't get me wrong but I love airplay I

  use airplay all the time B oftentimes

  streaming Spotify to my Apple TV because

  it would be great if spot if I made a

  friggin Apple TV app but that's a

  different issue anyway I like airplay I

  think airplay works great and that seems

  to be the only mechanism to get other

  audio in here which I agree with you

  Marco is kind of bananas because you

  would think like at least give us a

  little like what is it an RCA jack or

  like a headphone jack or did you know

  what I'm thinking of it but what was

  either an 8 inch stereo headphone in

  Jack or a or a pair of RCA plugs right

  exactly like that would that would

  dramatically increase the usefulness of

  that of this thing in my personal

  opinion and here again like I think it's

  a bit of a stretch for me to say what

  I'm about to say but here's like another

  quote unquote open issue like if this

  was designed

  maybe openness is a poor choice of words

  maybe flexibility is a better word if

  this was designed to be more flexible

  then it may have some mechanism of


  audio input maybe it would have more

  software support for Spotify or friggin

  overcast or pocket cast whatever I don't

  care if overcast isn't your you know

  podcasting platform of choice but I do

  affair whoo you know what I mean though

  like anything it would be a god it's

  just so frustrating cuz I feel like this

  is right up my alley as someone who has

  music playing in the house almost always

  and I really mean that like I if silence

  just freaks me out I have to have music

  playing when I'm when I'm in the house

  just playing with declan or whatever I

  constantly have mice my stereo that my

  like home theater if you will stereo on

  playing some sort of music this would be

  perfect for me if I could get music into

  it from some mechanism other than

  airplay and I guess maybe the adult

  answer if you will is well your airplane

  to your Apple TV a lot of the time

  anyway so who cares grow up but I know

  it just it's so frustrating that it

  doesn't have to be that way that's

  that's not a good answer

  you know what I mean exactly like it

  doesn't feel right to me like why would

  I spend 3 or $50 to do something I'm

  already doing you know it's just well

  and also airplay is limited you know as

  I mentioned last episode airplay has

  certain latency in different scenarios

  even airplay to is going to have latency

  Apple TV is is going to be able to work

  with it by compensating for that and

  like delaying the video stream so it

  catches up with the audio properly but

  you know any other thing sent into it

  might not and so you know if your answer

  here is airplay or even Bluetooth which

  also has some latency you know that

  rules out things like using it as TV

  speakers for a lot of people setups

  rules out you know future audio

  components you might want to connect to

  it like honestly I know this this is not

  something Apple would want to enable but

  like if you really liked the Amazon echo

  service and wanted to buy a home pod for

  its audio if I had a line in you could

  plug in an echo dot to it and have it

  and have it be like have it receive

  audio from that like in my word that's

  something that people actually consider

  that for my kitchen like it's actually

  something like people could do and I

  know apples not gonna try to enable it

  for reasons like that but like they

  would probably saw more and it's just

  again like it's the audio world I feel

  like yeah and this is kind of a larger

  tech problem like you know Apple talks

  so much about their environmental

  responsibility and everything but they

  sure make a lot of really limited

  Elizabeth their recyclable you know I

  don't know some of us have this since we

  failed as a group to buy one I don't

  know if it works as a plain old

  Bluetooth speaker but imagine if Amazon

  ships the dot with Bluetooth and then

  the dot can use the home pod as a

  Bluetooth speaker but by the way all

  Amazon echos can already do that

  including the dots but as far as we know

  the home pod can't take bluetooth input

  as a speaker like the Bluetooth is there

  but it seems like it's there just for

  like its own private use it does seem

  like your phone calls

  perhaps oh yeah actually I bet you're

  right it's probably for the phone call

  profile but like you know blue it's

  exposed to certain profiles and you know

  there's some phone calls or something

  for being speakers for music and from

  what we know so far it does not expose

  the a2dp protocol for music and so or

  whatever the more modern ones are so it

  doesn't it doesn't seem front we know so

  far that it is capable of being a

  Bluetooth speaker you know by itself

  seems like you have to buy one to find

  out Karam hasn't said either way no one

  in the chatroom Balwyn either we failed

  as a collective well nobody has them yet

  there was something I'm pretty sure

  during the hour-long demo at Apple PR

  though that some people had they

  probably didn't want you to like pair

  your phone to it to see if I could run

  as a Bluetooth speaker yeah oh let me

  I'll bring an echo in what you'd see if

  the echo compared to it yeah another

  point about this is you know all of us

  are asking for like line in or RCA or

  you know basically a wire connected to

  the thing but it could be that the

  ubiquity of Bluetooth just washes over

  the entire industry and having bluetooth

  is becomes the equivalent of having a

  line in for most people like not

  high-end audio people because I would

  say you know $300 is expensive but it's

  not high-end audio

  expensive right no no it's it's high-end

  audio a mid-range mid-range I guess when

  you have two of them maybe it's made

  arrangement well okay in audio there's

  like there's three prices that

  everything is either nothing $300 or

  $50,000 like that's roughly to get the

  classes here yeah so anyway well it

  could be that we're just behind the

  market and having the ability to take

  glue to the input is sufficient for

  everybody in fact to what people want

  and then we just have to find out

  whether they can take them all so

  getting back to the hardware thing if it

  doesn't take bluetooth input now as long

  as the hardware is there there's no

  reason they can't change that later and

  then you can have your echo dot talking

  to your own pod scenario in your kitchen

  yeah maybe I mean that would be nice to

  have just to have options like that like

  I know that's a ridiculous thing but

  although I would probably actually I

  really might complain a little dot on

  top of it well that would cover up the

  little screen on it yeah like it just

  like again it you know case you

  mentioned earlier flexibility I would I

  would maybe use the word versatility

  like it's there are so many more things

  scenarios in which the home pod could be

  useful or could be compelling if it had

  just one or two of these walls knocked

  down a little bit but yeah over time

  maybe it will we'll see we are sponsored

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  right I want to tell a short story that

  is really an excuse to talk about a

  shopping experience I just had so I have

  my MacBook adorable and I have a USB c2

  Ethernet adapter that also has three

  traditional USB ports on it and it's a

  little bit physically large but the

  problem is because I have a MacBook

  adorable that only has one port which

  usually doesn't bother me but

  occasionally does let's say I wanted to

  do a initial Time Machine backup which

  can take hours then I would have to make

  sure that I can do that before my

  battery depletes because this USB C

  Ethernet adapter does not have USB C in

  so I have no mechanism by which I can

  power my laptop all I'm using Ethernet

  which normally is not that big a deal

  but it's sometimes frustrating right

  well I also have a knockoff version of

  the Apple I forget the official term for

  it but the Apple adapter that has HDMI

  USB C in to provide power and a single

  USB what a you know traditional USB 3

  port yes the $80 middle finger from

  Apple yeah well I think I got mine for

  like 15 or 20 bucks or something like

  that I'll put a link in the show notes

  of course I paid 80 for mine because I

  think I'd got mine from monoprice or

  something like that all again I'll have

  to dig it up I don't remember offhand

  but it were I've never had a problem

  with it it works great and it was a heck

  of a lot less than 80 bucks

  so it occurred to me this you know HDMI

  thing err that again has HDMI USB see in

  traditional USB that's actually a really

  nice way to add a single USB port while

  maintaining power so you know what I

  should do I should get a USB Ethernet

  adapter and this way if I do have a long


  operation like a like a time machine

  back up I can plug this you know the

  old-school USB Ethernet adapter into my

  fancy pants not you know 80 but not

  actually $80 adapter into the macbook

  adorable so I bought a like $15 Ethernet

  adapter that runs over USB 3 I get it to

  the house and I bought it from Amazon I

  get it to the house and I did not do my

  due diligence and it requires a driver

  and that should have been enough to stop

  me but I was annoyed and I was like well

  screw it it's already here I don't wanna

  have to return it so I'll just install

  this driver so there I go installing a

  kernel extension that unequivocally came

  from China thinking to myself this is

  not a wise choice but Here I am here's

  our extension for a USB network adapter

  yeah I would have gone right back in the

  box for me well I understand that this

  was a terrible idea I don't need you to

  write into me anyone I understand I get

  it I understand China might be looking

  at every bit of network traffic that

  ever comes through this computer I get

  mean that's one problem also just like

  your computer is gonna suck now like

  it's gonna have you're gonna have

  stability issues no the next OS updates

  gonna probably break it like well so you

  should not say I am fully aware of all

  these that so I was just frustrated and

  in the heat of the moment I just went

  with it well then I do this kernel

  extension I know I tried to install this

  driver it installs just fine but I can't

  maintain a connection for more than like

  a minute or two and I decide you know

  what that is definitely not gonna work

  and even though this thing is only $15

  I'm gonna have to return it so I go to

  return it on to Amazon which I've done

  like once or twice in the past but I

  think it was one of you guys had said

  this before like it takes a lot for me

  to return anything even to like a

  nameless corporation you know it's

  really bad for me to return something to

  a retail store I hate doing that because

  I just feel like a jerk oh yeah even if

  it's well within my you know an ability

  that's not the word I'm looking for but

  if it's well within my rights I guess

  for lack of a better word to return

  something I hate doing it I think Marco

  you've talked about this a lot and I

  feel exactly the same way

  I mean honestly to be fairly it's so

  easy to returns up to Amazon that I do

  return Swift Amazon at more of a regular

  person rate

  than anything else in my life there you

  go so perfect segue thank you all I'll

  send you a dollar later uh-huh so I

  decide to return this thing to Amazon

  and I start grumbling to myself because

  like I'm gonna have to box it up and

  then I have to mail it and it's gonna be

  a royal pain but one of the options I

  had was to return it to an Amazon locker

  I thought to myself you know I know

  there's at least a couple of lockers

  nearby don't be creepy I'm gonna try

  this so they say okay you can return it

  to an Amazon locker here's what you do

  we've given you a PDF that has a

  hilariously large like it almost looks

  like a mailing label except there was no

  postage required because it's going to

  add Amazon locker and given that this

  was a little USB adapter that was

  probably the size of a deck of cards

  like the box of it was roughly the size

  of a deck of cards I needed to put it in

  this like hilariously large box just to

  fit the stupid mailing label on it but

  be that as it may so far so good

  so I print that out I find a much larger

  box than I shouldn't that I should

  really need I tape it all I put it in

  the box I tape it a lot blah blah blah

  and I go to the Amazon locker how much

  did this thing cost again because now

  you're over running my like how much did

  you say $15 it was about 15 bucks

  there's a way over $15 right you've

  already spent it just I feel like I

  spent $15 worth of effort listening to

  this story so far well thanks a lot yeah

  if I if I had a $15 product that didn't

  work I would probably honestly just

  throw it away

  like I don't think I would go through

  this system normally I would agree

  normally I would not even think about it

  especially since my LLC bought this so

  it's like you know free money except not

  but whatever oh that works yeah I know

  but it's not like sometimes think about

  it but anyway you really should I know I

  shouldn't all right just leave me alone

  okay just let me finish so the point is

  that I decide to return his Amazon

  locker and I agree with you guys this

  was a hilarious amount of effort for

  something that I should have just thrown

  in the trash and walked away from but I

  was annoyed and I wanted to kind of send

  this back and say screw you this thing

  was a piece of garbage so I Drive to the

  Amazon locker and they give you a little

  code and so there's a screen in the

  middle of the lockers and you type in

  your like 6 digit or 6 character code

  whatever and I do that and then a locker

  just pop

  open which isn't entirely surprising

  that was kind of cool to see and I go to

  put my hilariously large box in this

  locker that was about three or four

  maybe three inches tall and this box was

  easily six or seven inches and I look at

  the box and I look at the locker and I

  looked at the box and I look at the

  locker and I think well crap this isn't

  gonna go well I'm like what do I do

  you throw it in the trash you consider

  this problem gone American you would

  have made that box fake just shove it in

  scrunch it up wait why was the box so

  big for like a little USB dongle thing

  because of a stupid mailing label like

  because the mailing label was easily

  like six inches wide for this teeny tiny

  little I think what I would have done is

  just like tape the mail label around the

  the item installation with make the men

  label and tape the box and just make

  sure the barcode is visible some well I

  was gonna say you're also supposed

  supposed to put something in like a

  different bar code in the box just in

  case but I agree with you well anyway

  the reason I bring this up though is

  because on the screen there was an

  option that said my box is too big I

  need a bigger locker please or whatever

  and so I closed that I closed the locker

  and I hit that button or I think I hit

  the button then closed the locker and

  sure enough a different one popped open

  and it fit just fine and this was this

  all happened yesterday

  and so then X can't be the story it's no

  in that and then I put my box into the

  locker I shut the locker I waited a day

  and they said they're gonna credit my

  credit card how cool is that I just

  thought that was such a neat about the

  option to say that your box is too big

  yeah to give like I'm really not messing

  with you I know but this establishment

  that's that's all in the cloud if you

  will figuratively speaking it's all in

  the cloud like there's there's no real

  Amazon brick-and-mortar stores except

  yeah well actually whatever whatever but

  the point is that they just install this

  was like a friggin Sunoco station that

  they had this locker at and I could

  drive to the Sunoco station don't be

  creepy and I could return my item

  without having to send anything in the

  without having to worry about postage

  without having to worry about whether or

  not the mail was open wait you know that

  when you return something they give you

  a prepaid UPS label but then I still

  would have to bring it to a UPS store

  UPS drop but let me tell you the UPS

  Drakh boxes are big enough to

  accommodate your package yes first of

  all there are tons of UPS doors and drop

  boxes everywhere second of all you can

  also hand it to any UPS driver anywhere

  so if you have a UPS driver who comes to

  your office everyday you can just bring

  it to work and leave it like the front

  us and say hey can you give this the you

  to the UPS guy like or if you are at

  home like I am and you see the UPS

  person either come to your house or go

  to a neighbor's house you can walk

  outside me like here we go that's it

  it's so easy I think that the second

  strategy only works for Marco where the

  UPS man comes to his house every single

  day exactly that's exactly right you go

  to you both go to offices where they

  definitely come every day like there's

  no like everything come to every office

  every day like also you have like a

  month to return it when you do this not

  the Amazon locker the Amazon locker you

  have one full business day thank you

  very much okay if if you do if you do

  the the UPS prepaid label which is the

  option you should always take they give

  you like a month to return it so it

  doesn't matter if the UPS guy does come

  to your house every day if somebody from

  UPS comes to your house at least once a

  month or you can find a drop box or past

  the UPS store at least once a month you

  just do that it's so my god I can't

  believe you spent that much effort

  because I know the reason I brought all

  this up was not about this particular

  stupid dongle it was not about you know

  whether or not this was the most

  effective way to return this item this

  was just my first experience with an

  Amazon Locker and I thought it was

  really freaking cool and I could see how

  having this at like Whole Foods is is

  would be really convenient and I just

  thought and I think that this is a

  company that that really exists only in

  the ether by most definitions right

  there's there's magic where in you know

  I click some buttons on like my keyboard

  in my mouse then something suddenly

  shows up at my house and I have no

  mechanism why where wherein I can

  physically take something and return it

  to them like yes I understand what you

  just said Marco

  let you pee it the same way it got there

  I get it but I understand but like I

  just thought that this was really

  freaking cool and and yes I understand

  okay you can nitpick everything I just

  said yes there's a local Amazon

  warehouse but no I couldn't have brought

  it there yes I can take you TBS that's


  but I just thought that this was a

  really neat like half way in a really

  neat way to give themselves a foothold

  geographically without having to have a

  full-on brick-and-mortar store and if

  you end up cutting this from the

  released episode fine I just feel like

  it's really cool and after all the

  moaning and complaining we all did about

  the home pod I thought we would like a

  nice story and this to me was a nice

  story so you're gonna try that Amazon

  key thing next where you let Amazon open

  the door to your house and go inside no

  sir no no no that's the next step can be

  neat just try it hate you're installing

  text from China on your laptop why not

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  so much to fracture for sponsoring our

  show so I wrote him a cap over the last

  couple of weeks yeah last last week you

  told us a little bit you kind of teased

  it a little bit if it was for photo

  management right yeah that's right so

  here's the situation a quick recap

  doctor Drang had written a or maybe he

  had a fixed or otherwise tweaked a

  series of scripts I'm not sure what what

  Genesis was but he had written or

  tweaked whatever a bunch of Python

  scripts to do some basic rearranging of

  files as after he like imports them so

  the idea is and here's how I used it so

  the idea is I have a single folder that

  has a shedload of files be that from the

  iPhone be that from my physical camera

  or by yellow on my big camera whatever

  but I want them all to be filed away in

  folders that are like you know the the

  root folder / 20 18 / 0 1 and then the

  the file names would be roughly ISO 8601

  because this is one of the rare cases

  where I think I just so 8601 makes

  perfect sense so the file name would be

  something along the lines of 2018 - oh 1

  - 31 and in my particular case I did a

  space which I know some people may not

  agree with whatever doesn't matter then

  the 24-hour time so something like 21 -

  53 - whatever seconds dot jpg right

  so all this script did was it would

  crack open all of these images it would

  look at the exif data to see when was

  this picture taken then it would rename

  that file to be you know the roughly

  8601 time and date

  and then it would file that away and

  copy it to the appropriate folder does

  that make sense so far as I won with me

  yep so this was working pretty well

  except it required like a whole bunch of

  third-party libraries because Python and

  I never had the confidence to like

  really tweak it because I sort of

  understand Python but I'm I can read it

  okay but I'm really really bad at

  writing it so I did it felt like an

  untenable solution like I shouldn't have

  something that's this important to me

  that I can't really work with plus HEV C

  and more importantly hei C happened and

  I wasn't confident that this script

  would work with either of those it may

  have for all I know but I wasn't

  confident and that that was just a straw

  that broke the camel's back and I said

  you know what screw it I'm gonna rewrite

  this I'm gonna do it in Swift and I'm

  gonna make a command line app to do it

  and so I wrote an app and it's about

  five five hundred lines and it's just

  used via the command line and what you

  do is you say here's the source folder

  where all of these files exist be it

  movies or images and here's the target

  folder and then it will do basically the

  same thing as this Python script did is

  it will open up these images or open up

  these movies figure out when they were

  taken when they when the snapshot

  happened or when the recording happened

  rename them and then file them


  it will also be smart enough to if you

  took like a burst and you actually kept

  the bursts

  it'll rename it to like you know

  something something something a

  something something something B

  something something something C etc

  cetera et cetera and so there wouldn't

  be any collisions and it will report it

  and when something like when I when I

  couldn't figure out when the picture was

  taken because sometimes for example with

  Instagram when you save a picture or

  maybe it's Instagram stories I forget

  what but one way or another sometimes

  there is no exif data so there's no

  reliable way to figure out when was this

  picture taken and and i have the option

  of falling back to like the file

  creation date but sometimes that works

  sometimes it doesn't blah blah so i

  wrote all this in swift and it's roughly

  500 lines it does not use any sort of

  third-party library there's no carthage

  there's no cocoapods because I'm not an

  animal and also because I didn't need

  anything and it felt really really good

  like I'm really happy with it it's not

  perfect but

  no this one is mine and it works for me

  and I have learned some new things

  during it for whatever reason I had

  never really had an occasion to use what

  old people will call anis operation

  queue what I would call just operation

  queue I'd never really had a need for

  that in the past and I used one and I

  actually found a bug because of it

  earlier today but that's a different

  story but nevertheless this thing is

  multi-threaded so it will it will you

  know spew a whole ton of threads and

  churn through all these files and rename

  them and move them well copy them and so

  on and so forth and I really am happy

  with this now do I plan to release it to

  anyone absolutely not because I wrote it

  for me it works only for me this is it's

  specifically designed to work for me and

  the code kind of looks like garbage

  because I'm not showing it to anyone nor

  do I really plan on open sourcing it

  because I don't really know what good

  will come from that other than people

  laughing it why this is crummy code

  because again I didn't make it super

  testable I didn't make it super robust

  because it's just for me it's okay but

  I'm really pleased with how it worked

  out and a couple of small bugs aside and

  I just thought it was a really neat

  learning experience and maybe the only

  thing that's super interesting for the

  listeners is to say sometimes scratching

  your own itch can really be helpful

  because now I can use operation queues

  with confidence in my work work and I

  understand that operation queue is in

  iOS like I am fully aware of that but

  for whatever reason I just never really

  had a need for it and now and I'm

  picking on this only because it's a

  silly example that that many many iOS

  developers have used in the past

  tomorrow I assume you've used operation

  queues at some point or another sponsor

  overcast I use many of them yeah exactly

  so maybe it's kind of weird that I

  hadn't had a need for one but for

  whatever reason I hadn't and now I've

  used them and so now I kind of know

  something and that's exciting and so I

  just thought it was a useful thing to

  share that you know if you're developer

  even if you're not learning a new

  language to do these sorts of things you

  know if you're not trying to use this as

  an excuse to teach yourself Python for

  example sometimes it's just nice to do

  something different in the language you

  already know and love so that's

  basically it that's all I got

  that's cool yeah like I think this is

  kind of one of the unspoken benefits of

  being a programmer and also just a

  computer user it's like if you as a

  computer user have a problem that you

  would like to be solved in a better or

  different way you know if it's something

  that can be reasonably easily programmed

  and you're a programmer you can just do

  it you can just make something that does

  this for you it's very empowering it's

  really amazing and it's one of the

  amazing things about modern computers

  like about all computers really that

  like you know that give people the power

  to do that if they learn the you know

  relatively accessible skill of

  programming like then you can do lots of

  cool things like this we know whether

  it's as simple as like you know an Excel

  macro all the way down to doing

  something cool like this with Swift and

  operation cues on you know on the

  command line this is just it's one of

  the great satisfactions and advantages

  of being a programmer is that you can

  you know if you have a problem there's a

  decent chance you can make a solution to

  it if one doesn't exist out there that's

  exactly what you want yep exactly right

  and and and I think your point that you

  just made is very important that this

  doesn't have to be writing a swift

  command line app this can be just like

  you said something in Excel it can be

  something with Automator again if you're

  one of those iOS weirdos like Federico

  and Mike and you can do this using

  workflow I mean it's all there's all

  sorts of different things you can do in

  in all different levels of the stack

  there are levels of abstraction and it's

  just really really nice and convenient

  and yeah there's a couple of minor bugs

  I need to work out it occurred to me

  earlier tonight that the problem with

  going multi-threaded is that as multiple

  threads are trying to figure out if

  there's name collisions sometimes the

  one thread will think there's not a name

  collision and by the time it gets to

  copying the file there will be a name

  collision which is unwise I need to I

  need to clean that up a little bit and

  make sure I have some gates in there

  where where those sorts of things are

  being figured out but nonetheless the

  point I'm driving at is whatever the

  level may be be it in assembly or be it

  in an Excel macro or anything in between

  it's just really really neat to be able

  to solve these sorts of problems for

  yourself and once I get this thing like

  really and truly locked in which I think

  I'm pretty darn close this is going to

  be perfect for me for

  ever because it was written for me like

  no III guess my first contracting

  assignment for for my newfound future

  which may or may not ever happen of

  being an iOS or or Mac contractor I

  hired myself I wrote this for myself and

  you know what I did a pretty great job

  it's perfect short of that one bug so

  it's it's this sort of thing like in

  again is the I can't stress enough like

  whatever your abilities may be there's

  something like this that you can do it

  may even be in workflow it may be

  whatever but there's something like this

  you can do and it feels so great once

  it's done

  forecast is another great example

  actually that was written entirely for

  you wasn't it like you never and

  sidetrack still is like sidetrack is is

  the is the drift sink utility like

  that's still written just for me in the

  language I already knew but doing

  something that was totally new to me

  like you know similar what you were just

  saying like it was wonderful and solved

  a really big problem I had editing

  podcast and lighting on people's tracks

  like it but you know and but like you

  know like you're probably gonna get at

  least two or three people asking you

  don't like open source says you know

  I've had handfuls of people ask me over

  the years that side to side track is now

  I think like four years old you know

  I've given to a few friends here and

  there but like it's it's not releasable

  like there's a lot like it works you

  know this is one of the advantages of

  making things for yourself it works for

  me most of the time right exactly like

  you know give it something it doesn't

  expect or or some kind of condition I

  didn't consider or that I never run into

  myself so it's not really tested and you

  know it might not work so well or might

  not work at all or it might do weird

  things and and so you know it like

  making something releasable and then

  releasing it is way different and way

  more work than making something that

  works for you and that's occasionally

  worth doing you know some things are

  worth release into the world for like

  the benefit of the world or maybe for

  some kind of business reason but but you

  know it there's nothing wrong with

  making things that are just for you that

  you never share with anybody or that you

  share with only a couple of friends like

  it doesn't have to be a releasable big

  thing like i have i usually use shell

  scripts for these kinds of tasks and i

  just like using shell scripts a lot but

  like I have a giant shell script that

  takes the input files from each of the

  podcasts I do so

  takes like my file the file you give me

  the file that John gives me for this

  show and it doesn't I don't even have to

  move them out of Dropbox anymore it goes

  and looks in Dropbox for the files where

  they're supposed to be mm-hmm moves them

  into the my project directory decodes

  them puts you know moves all the

  channels around decodes the weird call

  recorder files like you know it does all

  this stuff mostly by like calling out to

  ffmpeg and stuff like that lines them

  all up and outputs all the right files

  and it's just a big shell script and I

  made it just for me just to help me with

  this task I do every week that's kind of

  tedious if I do it manually and it's

  great and like just the ability of

  programmers to do this is just it's so

  wonderful and productive like as to be a

  power user of a computer than to also be

  able to do at least a little bit of

  program and you can just make the

  computer work so much better for you and

  take them to and take even more

  advantage of the massive amount of

  computational power that is at our

  fingertips just waiting for the right

  software to come along and actually use

  it one uh one other final thought on

  this which I forgot to mention earlier

  the I do have a problem with this thing

  that I've written and the problem that I

  have is that now I kind of want to make

  a full-on Mac app like not a command

  line app like a full-on GUI Mac app

  where it'll basically that's my problem

  with the thing you wrote the fact that

  you called it a Mac app and I was all

  excited Wow in case you wrote a man

  shell script in Swift as much as I

  really want to get angry and argue with

  you I think that is actually a fair

  characterization but um but now I kind

  of do want to want to mark I usually

  make overcast for the Mac but just make

  it you know a command line script thing

  that just hits hits the web into Ray's

  endpoints and pulls down the audio that

  way it would just be a shell script just

  like pipe it to like you know hey am

  play or whatever this is a really long

  alias for a curl command yeah but no now

  I do kind of want a GUI apps so rather

  than just going on faith that this will

  work which again short of this one bug

  has worked pretty well the few times

  I've used it so far but I'd actually I'm

  thinking about maybe quote-unquote

  upgrading this to be a full-on GUI app

  such that this way I can kind of stage

  okay here's what we think this file

  should be named and here's where it will

  belong it

  like image capture like make it

  like image capture like make it

  as much money I wanted to be nicer

  inside probably you know I'm thinking

  like well the Volvo is probably nicer

  inside than this thing oh very much so

  yeah and it's similar price and also

  bigger and so you're trading a lot it

  seemed like down market in exchange for

  sportiness I was surprised at how much

  Headroom it seemed to have that was

  pretty nice but even with the sunroof

  things seemed like you had enough room

  to put a helmet on in there you could

  fit your tall hair yeah and I do have

  tall hair but I mean again I've never

  really had an interference fit with my

  head in a slam roof so I can't say that

  I'm surprised by that I don't think I'm

  a good judge of these things in some of

  the footage that I filmed I did make

  direct comparisons to Aaron's car but

  part of the reason I left that out well

  a lot of it was that was early on and

  basically I'd never come up with like a

  formal script for anything I record I do

  have some like broad talking points that

  I think through when I'm when I'm

  recording but I don't have a script or

  anything like that and so footage that I

  filmed early in the week I made a lot of

  comparisons Darren's car but it just

  seemed like that wasn't terribly

  relevant because as you said John like I

  haven't formally reviewed Aaron's car

  and so I think when I do the video

  review of Aaron's car I will probably

  make some comparisons to the stell vo

  but I think to do that in the reverse

  order would have been ill-suited but

  yeah I think you didn't hit the nail on

  the head like Aaron's car is not

  particularly sporty it given that it's a

  freaking whale it moves pretty well his

  car moves pretty well but it's not fast

  this thing felt actually reasonably

  quick and moved in turn you know handled

  really well all told I was very very

  surprised by that and so I think you're

  right in saying that you would give up

  some luxury in moving from a Volvo xc90

  or perhaps an XC 60 which is a more

  direct competitor to this you would give

  up a little bit of luxury but you would

  gain a lot of sportiness I haven't tried

  the xc60 the brand new xc60 cuz that

  just got revamped this year to be

  basically a mini version of Aaron's car

  but another part of the reason why I

  didn't think it was a fair comparison is

  because this is more x3 whereas the the

  xc90 that we have is more like an x5 or

  even a quote-unquote x7 if you will

  because it's you know ours is 3 row

  whereas I don't think you can get an X

  with third row and even if you can its

  it's not really a direct competitor in

  my personal opinion even though maybe

  like officially speaking it is so I

  didn't think a lot of direct comparisons

  would make sense but yes very much

  Erin's car is very much more luxurious

  this car is very much more sporty

  because a whole class of car

  the sporty small medium small SUV is

  incredibly stupid it most most

  adequately pointed out in your video

  bye-bye the tiny slit of a back when I

  come on oh it's already like it's

  already big and like you could have just

  made a wagon or a car but instead you

  made this big shoe thing and then it has

  bad visibility out the back and no

  luggage space and it's just like what

  are you even doing it's like you just

  take a regular car that has like if you

  just had regular car proportions the

  trunk we bigger the visibility to be

  better the handling will be better what

  would you be losing off-road ability

  would you be losing that forget it like

  it's ridiculous they just make cars

  uglier and worse for no reason and

  people like the bottom because they set

  up I so I'm just angry about that all

  class of cars but it's the continued

  like ridiculous contortions Americans

  will do to not buy a wagon yeah yeah

  it's true but anyway I don't know I'm

  pretty pleased with the video like again

  I'm not saying it's perfect by no means

  am i saying it's perfect there are

  plenty of things I would change about it

  if I had infinite time and infinite

  budget and so on and so forth

  but I am pretty proud of it I am very

  glad to have had the car I I think it's

  it's a neat car even though it's not for

  me and the question I'm trying to figure

  out or the thing I'm trying to answer is

  you know how can I get something other

  than an Alfa Romeo to play with and yes

  some listeners have offered their cars

  but I had this thing for a week and I

  barely had enough time to film and

  photograph what I wanted so even though

  there are some people even locally you

  have a newborn well again and well I

  mean it's not just a heavy new there's

  there's good reasons but even so like

  even so like with the julia role granted

  i was working at that point but i i

  don't think i would have the time or

  ability to pull a dog demure which from

  what I understand like he shows up he

  uses a car for a couple hours or

  something like that records and

  disappears like I am nowhere near that

  and so in order for me to be able to do

  another car I need to have something

  that'll have like significant amounts of

  time with so some listeners have been on

  and just kind enough to offer me hey you

  know if I'm ever in Richmond I'll let

  you know what yes please do or you know

  a if you if you want to you know borrow

  the car for you know a couple hours feel

  free which is super kind of these people

  but it's not enough for me like it

  should be enough but it isn't and so I'm

  trying to figure out like what's the

  next step I did email the Tesla PR

  people and have gotten no response which

  is completely expected asking them to

  give me anything that they would be

  willing to give me but even like if

  underscore drove his car down for a day

  like I would need more than I think just

  a weekend with his car to be able to get

  what I wanted out of it and to really

  understand it from the perspective of a

  driver rather than a passenger so it's

  minoo what the mechanism is to branch

  out other than just using cars that are

  in my life like Aaron's car like

  potentially my car like my dad's

  Corvette if he'll ever give me the keys

  ever but we'll see what happens like

  it's it's a tough nut to crack but no

  matter what and we talked about this a

  lot on analog it's still fun like and

  I'm not making money off of it at this

  point and that's unfortunate but okay

  and to be honest I wouldn't really be

  making more than like a Panera Bread

  Mille worth of money off of this level

  of viewership anyway so I'm not really

  losing if you will much of anything but

  it's been it's been fun and I'm and I've

  been scratching and creative itch that

  I've never scratched before so that

  feels real good too

  yeah I mean and keep in mind like you

  know if I mean you know the reason why

  is somebody like this demure character

  can do this is like he's been doing this

  so long that like he knows how to get

  what he needs quickly forgetting the

  shots and everything so by doing this

  more you you will take less time in the

  future like as you get better at this

  you'll also get faster at it oh yeah the

  turnaround on this was way quicker cuz I

  had the video done within a couple of

  days I think was the day after was it

  was it know is the day I gave the car

  back I think as wasn't yesterday was a

  day before right no no it was yesterday

  actually it was it was yesterday morning

  it was the Tuesday morning so

  within a day of the car going back I had

  the video done whereas with the Julia it

  was like two weeks later or something

  like that it was maybe even more than

  that it was quite a while later so yes

  you're absolutely right that that I'm

  I'm getting quicker and I like to think

  I'm getting better at it but but I'm

  still not at the point that I could have

  let's say for the sake of discussion

  underscore come down on a Saturday

  morning and in you know run around with

  me all day and and I would have enough

  footage and thoughts completed in order

  to have what I needed in the span of

  that one day didn't you know what I mean

  right but like well but you know so the

  cars that you can get for a few days

  from your family and yourself and

  everything like how many videos do you

  think you'd have to make before you

  might be at that point where you can get

  what you need in a day that answer might

  be the number of cars you actually have

  pretty long access to like if you if you

  actually would do videos for your car

  Aaron's car one of your dad's cars at

  least like that's three more videos you

  might actually be fast enough then to be

  able to borrow a Tesla from a friend for

  a day and do ain't get what you need

  perhaps yeah and and it's also you know

  it's really squishy like even if I get

  to the point that I'm quick enough to do

  it like that it's still an odd thing

  taking like a random person's car cuz

  even if it's a listener who knows me and

  and you know likes me enough to hand me

  the keys to their car like that becomes

  really squishy because what happens if I

  get in like a humungous car accident

  while driving their car like what what

  is that about cuz this is sort of kind

  of a business thing that I'm doing yet

  it's not really you know so like do I

  need business insurance like how does

  that work and I'm not really looking to

  answer this question right now but

  there's a whole lot of like squishiness

  involved when it's not a personal friend

  or family member and and that's what

  makes it a little weird and difficult

  and you know I've exchanged a couple of

  tweets with demure oh so I'm maybe I

  could ask him like how does this work

  and he would probably tell me well it's

  part of his job and so you know what is

  it auto trader that he works for so it

  would you know maybe auto trader foots

  an insurance plan right or policy

  whatever the terminology is in order to

  let this happen I don't know I'm talking

  about step 304 I'm on step three so

  all I'm trying to say is I'm having fun

  and even if even if nothing comes to

  this it's been an enjoyable experience


  don't regret yet I have some concerns

  about you looking at the camera while

  you driving keep your eyes on the road I

  glanced at the camera come on Blanche

  just look at the road we don't need to

  see you

  what road every time you look at the

  camera look back forward look back far

  look back forward like it's the

  nervousness I don't have and when I'm

  watching TV or movies cuz I know that

  they're on a trailer or it's all CG or

  whatever but I know you're on an actual

  Road and there's nothing being fake so

  look at the road all I really wanted in

  the grand scheme of things is to just

  make positive improvements right like I

  just wanted I want it to be clear to me

  and to a viewer that I am I am trending

  upwards I guess you know that I'm making

  that things are getting better with each

  video and that's all I can really hope

  and ask for and so far I think I've

  achieved it so you know that's a success

  awesome well congratulations and thanks

  I agree I think you have achieved that

  and yeah good good luck with the next

  one hope it comes

  I mean I think another kid to make

  another one yeah I don't know how and I

  have no idea I don't know how that's

  gonna work but one way or another there

  will be another one I think part of the

  problem but I and again this is

  discussed on analog but I really need

  that time constraint like when I only

  have a week to get all the footage I

  need I really need to make it count

  and the problem with Erin's car is that

  it's always here and I need to just set

  myself a schedule or a due date or

  something for her video or you know the

  video of her car so that that compels me

  to get off my lazy tuchus and actually

  record some footage for that because if

  I don't have that like that that thing

  chasing me it's never gonna get done but

  we'll see how long ago was your first

  video like five or six weeks yeah

  something like that it was end of

  November I believe that it was released

  I think was like the 22nd of November so

  yeah it was like a couple of months

  alright so set yourself a calendar

  reminder for four weeks from now and say

  done by that yeah then that's that's

  really what I should do especially since

  right after that is when I'm going back

  to work but there you go will say that's

  your deadline yeah I know I know I know

  and that now the only way to

  procrastinate is by not going back to



  only like if only I could pay myself as

  much as I want to to hire myself to do

  this stupid work I'm doing if only there

  was a way for other people to pay you to

  do work for them ah can you imagine I

  don't know it's this crazy business idea

  called working as maybe I don't know how

  about a consult dist consults us I like

  it no it's a little awkward

  how about consultant is that is that is

  that a better version that word let's do

  let's go with consultants something like

  that if only that exists as the thing

  you could do I have only