The Accidental Tech Podcast

260: The Todoyist Problem

 

  late for to-do item because you want to [TS]

  do it at a particular time depending on [TS]

  how you view things how many you just [TS]

  use one calendar KC way to use I use a [TS]

  shared Google Calendar that is off of my [TS]

  gmail account that Aaron and I share and [TS]

  that is the canonical family calendar [TS]

  that being said anything that happens [TS]

  during the workday or anything that for [TS]

  some reason I don't want Aaron to see [TS]

  like maybe I've booked a time to go buy [TS]

  her a gift or something like that like [TS]

  that's the only thing I can think of [TS]

  that I wouldn't want her to see or maybe [TS]

  something that's irrelevant to her that [TS]

  goes on my work calendar just because [TS]

  he's going to the Tesla dealership [TS]

  exactly right how did you know but but [TS]

  yes so basically the Google Calendar [TS]

  that's associated with my gmail account [TS]

  well strictly speaking my Google Apps [TS]

  for my domain account that is a shared [TS]

  calendar that that she has on her phone [TS]

  that she has on her computer that's [TS]

  everywhere that is the canonical list [TS]

  family calendar and then anything that [TS]

  is basically basically anything that [TS]

  happens during the workday or for some [TS]

  reason I don't want her to be burdened [TS]

  with that is on my work calendar what is [TS]

  your work calendar its Google Apps but [TS]

  it's all Google yeah it's Google [TS]

  everywhere so I also have a separate [TS]

  work calendar it's not Google because my [TS]

  work doesn't use Google at work out look [TS]

  whatever exchange and I don't I think [TS]

  that's split I like that split I like [TS]

  not having my work calendar messed with [TS]

  my family code most ago than my work [TS]

  calendar is totally bonkers like is just [TS]

  massively booked and oversubscribed and [TS]

  I would never want that noise in my life [TS]

  right and then the life calendar is less [TS]

  and there's a split the market but it's [TS]

  pretty much the same split that I use [TS]

  like on the family calendar it's you [TS]

  know podcast recording I would put [TS]

  plumber on the calendar it would be an [TS]

  all-day item and then reminders are if [TS]

  I'm doing something off the normal [TS]

  schedule I do put what I do put what [TS]

  time I have to leave work on my work [TS]

  calendar I do put what time I have to [TS]

  leave home on my home calendar for days [TS]

  where that is different than normal [TS]

  right so if I have to write if I have a [TS]

  very early meeting and I want to remind [TS]

  myself don't [TS]

  yet today you have a early meeting you [TS]

  actually have to be working or earlier [TS]

  than you normally are I put that on my [TS]

  home calendar early in the morning and [TS]

  if I have to leave work early to like a [TS]

  parent-teacher conference I put that in [TS]

  my work calendar which is weird like I [TS]

  was thinking about for the to-do apps as [TS]

  well and when I use reminders I'm a lot [TS]

  of time I'm choosing a system based on [TS]

  where I think I'll be when I'll need [TS]

  this information and what I think I'll [TS]

  be doing if I think my phone will be [TS]

  with me reminders is a candidate because [TS]

  that's where I'm gonna see it but if I [TS]

  think I won't have my phone if I put in [TS]

  reminders not gonna do me any good [TS]

  you know if I'm if I'm someplace where I [TS]

  don't have that and that's the homework [TS]

  calendar split is I don't want to look [TS]

  at my work calendar at home and I do [TS]

  look at my home calendar at work which [TS]

  you requires some combining of stuff but [TS]

  for the to do stuff like marker said [TS]

  with the multiple applications that are [TS]

  you know task specific I just got done [TS]

  asking for the ability to say like Oh [TS]

  reminding you whatever and have you use [TS]

  a single app the next logical step and [TS]

  that is to have it understand you well [TS]

  enough to know when you ask to add [TS]

  something to your shopping list that it [TS]

  means this Apple when you when you say [TS]

  something about the trash it means that [TS]

  app right these are all within the realm [TS]

  of reason because these are a fairly [TS]

  narrow problem demands and also within [TS]

  the realm of you know Apple's favorite [TS]

  thing machine learning where if you keep [TS]

  talking about the trash it should [TS]

  eventually like learn or ask you when [TS]

  your actual trash day is and you should [TS]

  be able to say increasingly offhand and [TS]

  casual things which result in the [TS]

  correct being reminded at the correct [TS]

  time because it has some context in [TS]

  history about what you've done in the [TS]

  past we're not asking for how bind [TS]

  thousand here I think all this is within [TS]

  the grass but it's the stuff that [TS]

  probably Google probably already knows [TS]

  about us from like monitoring all our [TS]

  activities through its various [TS]

  applications and stuff I [TS]

  I would love for those systems to get [TS]

  just a little tiny bit smarter so Marco [TS]

  how long until you write your own is [TS]

  really what we all want to know that is [TS]

  not an unreasonable question it would be [TS]

  totally my style to get upset with all [TS]

  the options and just write my own but [TS]

  honestly I don't think that's going to [TS]

  happen I you know there's first of all [TS]

  there's limited time in the day and it's [TS]

  a little bit of a crowded market perhaps [TS]

  honestly it well it isn't because [TS]

  there's only so many they're actually [TS]

  decent [TS]

  but the [TS]

  problem is that for this is kind of a [TS]

  similar problem that that that you know [TS]

  John Gruber and Brent Simmons and Dave [TS]

  whiskas had with Vesper yeah is that to [TS]

  enter this market in a competitive way [TS]

  that's that's useful to a lot of people [TS]

  you really need to be on like all of the [TS]

  Apple platforms at once at launch and [TS]

  that's really hard for any India to do [TS]

  these days like I'm not gonna use as do [TS]

  a to-do app that is not on my Mac and my [TS]

  iPhone and my iPad and a lot of people [TS]

  are also gonna need a watch app that's [TS]

  getting really like the barrier is just [TS]

  so high that it is certainly possible [TS]

  for people to do it and there's gonna be [TS]

  certainly some people who are totally [TS]

  fine to have it say only on their phone [TS]

  That's not me and that's not it's not [TS]

  many people unfortunately and so in [TS]

  order to make a good to do a that's [TS]

  actually competitive you really need to [TS]

  launch on all those platforms at once [TS]

  and that's just really a massive amount [TS]

  of work that I don't think I'm ever [TS]

  gonna have [TS]

  not only the bandwidth to do but also [TS]

  like I don't have the passion for this [TS]

  market at all I'm happy to use these [TS]

  apps and talk about them once on a [TS]

  podcast for 30 minutes but I really [TS]

  don't think I'm going to fall in love [TS]

  with to do app systems and suddenly want [TS]

  to make my own enough to actually be [TS]

  willing to devote the massive amount of [TS]

  time it would take to make apps for all [TS]

  these platforms to make it actually [TS]

  useful [TS]

  so another this actually reduces the [TS]

  amount of work but it does is a novel [TS]

  approach to reducing the apparent [TS]

  footprint on all the different platforms [TS]

  is the approach that I think I think [TS]

  Google is taking this approach I'm sure [TS]

  other apps have done it as well where [TS]

  you decide that the problem you're [TS]

  solving well you know whatever ever is [TS]

  to do laptops or whatever you're going [TS]

  to implement that entirely server-side [TS]

  and with some smart somewhere right and [TS]

  that the interface to those smarts will [TS]

  be something that is not directly [TS]

  connected with a task so in the Google [TS]

  in Google's case like I forget what is [TS]

  it was it a low or something like they [TS]

  basically had a chat app it's bubbles of [TS]

  text it's you versus the thing you're [TS]

  communicating with and that chat app can [TS]

  be used to chat with any person or thing [TS]

  there's nothing in the chat app that is [TS]

  specific to the problem so you if you [TS]

  have the chat app on all the different [TS]

  platforms that [TS]

  is on your watch it's on your phone it's [TS]

  on your Mac or whatever you just write [TS]

  that chat app once and then what you're [TS]

  conversing with is a series of [TS]

  intelligent agents that know how to do [TS]

  certain kinds of things and so then you [TS]

  implement your to-do app entirely [TS]

  server-side and then when you want to do [TS]

  your next app which is like you know a [TS]

  shopping list it's the same sort of [TS]

  interface with the chat type thing or [TS]

  speaking or whatever like getting [TS]

  getting closer to the idea of not [TS]

  looking at pictures and screens and [TS]

  poking in them but they're having sort [TS]

  of an assistant in helps you with things [TS]

  obviously writing the assistant is much [TS]

  harder even harder than writing an [TS]

  application for all the different [TS]

  platforms but that is it's an [TS]

  interesting approach to these kinds of [TS]

  problems where you're never gonna make [TS]

  one user interface or one way of [TS]

  organizing that works best but if you [TS]

  can make one kind of reasonably fake [TS]

  intelligent agent that learns based on [TS]

  your habits in some reasonable way it [TS]

  could be you know it could be a better [TS]

  actually a better experience to be able [TS]

  to go back and forth the thing with over [TS]

  text invoice and eventually it's sort of [TS]

  like having your own very primitive [TS]

  personal assistant who in the beginning [TS]

  doesn't really know how you like things [TS]

  done but eventually learns and that [TS]

  could be better than any really nice [TS]

  interface that you make on all the [TS]

  different platforms and potentially [TS]

  easier to maintain because once you've [TS]

  mastered that interface whether it's [TS]

  faceless talking or just like a chat [TS]

  type interface you don't need to revisit [TS]

  that that much another angle I [TS]

  considered when I when I was thinking [TS]

  like should I make my own one of these [TS]

  or not is that the reminders like we've [TS]

  seen a lot of apps over the last couple [TS]

  years that are basically like better [TS]

  interfaces to the built-in Apple [TS]

  calendar fantastical is number one and [TS]

  it's been and I use phantastic owl for [TS]

  all of my event entry on the Mac but I [TS]

  still use calendar for the for the [TS]

  browsing of it but I use for the Xcode [TS]

  for entry it's wonderful iCal or rather [TS]

  calendar does have a somewhat [TS]

  fantastical like natural language entry [TS]

  field in recent versions of OS 10 sorry [TS]

  if Mac OS but it's not nearly as good so [TS]

  I don't use it but the same API exists [TS]

  for [TS]

  reminders database so one way someone [TS]

  could tackle this market I don't know if [TS]

  anybody has really in a serious way but [TS]

  you could just make a nicer interface to [TS]

  the built-in reminders database I don't [TS]

  know what the limitations that would be [TS]

  I'm sure it's not gonna be nearly as [TS]

  full-featured as if you make your own [TS]

  database and run your own service but [TS]

  that is one way you could do this where [TS]

  like if you first just tackle like just [TS]

  the Mac first or just iOS first with our [TS]

  really nice interface to the reminders [TS]

  database maybe that's the way you could [TS]

  do it more incrementally but again this [TS]

  is not this is not a market that I feel [TS]

  passionate enough about to spend my time [TS]

  on and unfortunately if you wanted to be [TS]

  differentiated in this market which I [TS]

  still think is crowded yes there are the [TS]

  good ones but there is such a long tail [TS]

  of mediocre to bad ones that someone [TS]

  somewhere loves right I'm sure because [TS]

  the tail is so long that someone has [TS]

  already done this but when you were [TS]

  talking about and when other people talk [TS]

  about these a million to do apps and how [TS]

  they do one thing you like but not some [TS]

  other thing or whatever I'm always [TS]

  reminded of the calculator Construction [TS]

  Set sorry about Steve Jobs worth the [TS]

  calculator app wasn't quite to his [TS]

  liking and the developer was tired of [TS]

  hearing him say you know this should be [TS]

  like that it just basically made away [TS]

  here's Steve you can arrange the buttons [TS]

  and size them and like you build the [TS]

  calculator that you want so instead of a [TS]

  to-do app maker you say well this person [TS]

  says they want this but that person said [TS]

  they always want that and they want this [TS]

  too many demands here you make the to-do [TS]

  app you want so if you can make it to do [TS]

  app construction kit there was an app [TS]

  that gave you the tools to build the app [TS]

  that you wanted I mean that maybe that's [TS]

  what I'm the focus is and that's what [TS]

  marco was recoiling from because it was [TS]

  just too darn complicated but I think [TS]

  army focus does have at least some point [TS]

  of view about what you're doing but if [TS]

  you really made a construction kit for [TS]

  to do apps where and again I started [TS]

  thinking of agents like I don't want to [TS]

  get him to a program really quick and [TS]

  that just narrows your market to nothing [TS]

  cuz no one wants to even do some kind of [TS]

  simple programming but if I could [TS]

  converse with the application and [TS]

  negotiate how things are gonna work you [TS]

  know do you want me to remind you once [TS]

  you do you always want you me to keep [TS]

  reminding you like then the nagging [TS]

  thing the case he was talking about you [TS]

  know most of the time what do you want [TS]

  okay do you want to see all the things [TS]

  that are coming up and today or dress [TS]

  the things that are due in the next time [TS]

  window or like just [TS]

  sort of go through the process of [TS]

  building the app it's view again that [TS]

  would be astronomically hard to make but [TS]

  I think it would be I'm assuming it [TS]

  would be relatively novel in the market [TS]

  because having heard many many dozens of [TS]

  hours if people saw you about to do [TS]

  absent podcast I have yet to hear [TS]

  someone say I tried this construction [TS]

  kid and it was terrible so if it doesn't [TS]

  guess maybe it's so far in the long tail [TS]

  and no one's even seen it we respond to [TS]

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  betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

  betterment comm slash ATP thank you to [TS]

  betterment for sponsoring our show time [TS]

  for some ask ATP let's do it alright [TS]

  roar Locker what a great name roar [TS]

  that's amazing what what parent decides [TS]

  to name their child roar and why didn't [TS]

  I think of that [TS]

  anyway he or she writes kc do you miss [TS]

  this C sharp and dotnet development [TS]

  stack I'm taking my computer engineer [TS]

  Bachelor degree and I must say that I [TS]

  enjoy very much I also like c-sharp much [TS]

  better than Swift although I've spent [TS]

  more time coding in Swift maybe I'm just [TS]

  feeling in Xcode versus Visual Studio [TS]

  effects so I miss c-sharp and that's [TS]

  about it [TS]

  ed dotnet is fine whatever [TS]

  like it's good I guess but to me it's [TS]

  just a vehicle to give me C sharp [TS]

  I do miss C sharp I love Swift I really [TS]

  honestly do love Swift [TS]

  I like Swift quite a lot but C sharp [TS]

  does I've probably said this before on [TS]

  the show C sharp does a stunningly good [TS]

  job of being all things to all people if [TS]

  you want to write sort of kind of [TS]

  functional programming and yes I'm aware [TS]

  that there's f sharp but like if you [TS]

  want to get halfway to functional [TS]

  programming you can do that with C sharp [TS]

  if you want to write kind of basic [TS]

  boring procedural stuff you can do that [TS]

  with C sharp if you want to write super [TS]

  object-oriented stuff you can do that [TS]

  with C sharp and I know that the C sharp [TS]

  is not the only language that all this [TS]

  applies to I'm waiting for John to jump [TS]

  in and talk about pearl but C sharp does [TS]

  a really good job of being just about [TS]

  anything to anyone and I do miss xishi [TS]

  sharp a lot I am I don't really mind X [TS]

  code which means one of a couple things [TS]

  it means either I'm still a noob which [TS]

  is possible it means either I just [TS]

  haven't been burned by it which is semi [TS]

  true or it means I'm an idiot which is [TS]

  possible as well but in the same way [TS]

  that everyone else seems to complain and [TS]

  moan about X code like I don't really [TS]

  mind it and maybe it's because Visual [TS]

  Studio well great in many ways is [TS]

  aesthetically an assault on my eyes and [TS]

  Xcode for all of its faults Xcode does [TS]

  one thing very well and that's be very [TS]

  very pretty Marco you said something [TS]

  earlier about you know hey I'm a Mac [TS]

  user and I'm an apple person so I like [TS]

  things to be pretty or well designed I [TS]

  forget how you phrased it earlier but [TS]

  yeah it's it's that right like Xcode is [TS]

  painful in some ways but a it is and [TS]

  forever will be better than eclipse [TS]

  don't email me and B it is it is not [TS]

  that bad in my personal opinion now if [TS]

  you want to talk about [TS]

  Swift like code completion what is its [TS]

  source kit is that what I'm thinking of [TS]

  like source kit is at an utter disaster [TS]

  but Xcode itself it's not bad and I like [TS]

  it and do I miss Visual Studio no not [TS]

  really [TS]

  and holy hell do I not miss anything [TS]

  related to Windows nothing about Windows [TS]

  is something I miss or long for I am so [TS]

  unbelievably thankful to be off Windows [TS]

  I cannot even verbalize it I am so [TS]

  thankful to be away from that so I miss [TS]

  C sharp net whatever it's something that [TS]

  gives me C sharp Visual Studio me [TS]

  windows hell no I don't miss it [TS]

  right David steer asks the next time you [TS]

  discuss single versus multi thread [TS]

  processing would it be possible to give [TS]

  it a couple of real-world examples of [TS]

  tasks or applications that perform [TS]

  better in each process I love the show [TS]

  but a mother technical and sometimes I [TS]

  struggled to and sometimes struggled to [TS]

  give context to your discussions trying [TS]

  to figure out exactly what is being [TS]

  asked here because one way to read it is [TS]

  like what types of things benefit from [TS]

  multiple threads and that's getting into [TS]

  the Marco zone of like look if you're [TS]

  doing this type of task and you got a [TS]

  10-car Mac Pro you'll see a big benefit [TS]

  a Mac Pro but if you're doing this kind [TS]

  of task you're not going to see a [TS]

  benefit because it's not you know it [TS]

  doesn't use multiple cores and the and [TS]

  which tests those are really depends on [TS]

  a lot of factors including just like [TS]

  what the application is like I think [TS]

  Final Cut Pro 10 wasn't particularly [TS]

  strong at multi-threading until recently [TS]

  so but that doesn't mean video [TS]

  processing does or doesn't benefit [TS]

  multi-threading [TS]

  the other way to think about this [TS]

  question is they're asking like what [TS]

  makes something a problem to which you [TS]

  can apply some parallelism beyond like [TS]

  you know any kind of parallelism or like [TS]

  degrees of parallelism I think that's I [TS]

  think that's probably closer to the [TS]

  answer so I'm going to try to give a [TS]

  non-technical explanation it's best I [TS]

  can do this so doing stuff in parallel [TS]

  requires a problem where you can break [TS]

  it up into pieces and that the pieces [TS]

  don't have dependencies between them or [TS]

  don't [TS]

  have a lot of dependencies between the [TS]

  obvious example that comes up a lot is [TS]

  almost anything having to do with [TS]

  graphics processing where you've got a [TS]

  lot of dots on your screen and for the [TS]

  most part dots may depend on their [TS]

  neighboring dots but they don't depend [TS]

  on the dots way over at the other side [TS]

  so if you're taking an entire image and [TS]

  blurring it you can break that image up [TS]

  into a bunch of smaller pieces dole out [TS]

  those pieces to a bunch of things that [TS]

  are gonna work on them all at the same [TS]

  time and then put the pieces back [TS]

  together at the end lots of graphics [TS]

  cards do exactly that for you know [TS]

  tiling processing but in general just [TS]

  the giant array of pixels [TS]

  they are worked on as much as possible [TS]

  in parallel by your graphics card [TS]

  there's probably a Wikipedia page on [TS]

  this expression but there is a term of [TS]

  art in the computer science world called [TS]

  embarrassingly parallel problems where [TS]

  it is so easy to parallel eyes because [TS]

  you can break it up and do as many [TS]

  chunks is you want and there are a lot [TS]

  of chunks and so it's like look if you [TS]

  gave me a million processors this [TS]

  problem is embarrassingly parallel I [TS]

  could break it up into a million pieces [TS]

  and do them all at once and it would be [TS]

  a million times faster than doing them [TS]

  one at a time right you know assuming [TS]

  the thing is processes at the same time [TS]

  so whether something performs in [TS]

  parallelize is based on sort of the [TS]

  nature of the problem there are problems [TS]

  that you can't do in parallel because [TS]

  the to do step one to do step two you [TS]

  need the answer from step one to do step [TS]

  three you need the answer for step two [TS]

  so you can't break you can't do steps [TS]

  one two and three all at the same time [TS]

  and so that's the high level computer [TS]

  size the explanation you can apply your [TS]

  basic reasoning about things to try to [TS]

  discover whether a particular problem [TS]

  you're having is parallelizable in any [TS]

  way is it embarrassingly parallel [TS]

  izybelle [TS]

  or is it generally serial by nature but [TS]

  that's when we get into the complexity [TS]

  is like well this problem is [TS]

  parallelizable say mp3 encoding but it [TS]

  turns out the mp3 encoder I have doesn't [TS]

  do anything in parallel it just does it [TS]

  from the beginning to the end and that's [TS]

  where marco said well I can it's not [TS]

  embarrassingly parallel but I can break [TS]

  this audio track up into five pieces and [TS]

  encode all five at the same time [TS]

  and then put the five pieces back [TS]

  together and now I've done it five times [TS]

  faster right you can't break it up into [TS]

  a billion pieces because at a certain [TS]

  point you're doing I don't know what the [TS]

  size is Marco would know if like a [TS]

  single frame or whatever that 1,200 [TS]

  samples [TS]

  yeah like there there is some you know [TS]

  some unit size that beyond which you [TS]

  don't get any benefit but that's an [TS]

  example where the problem itself is [TS]

  parallelizable but the but you can say [TS]

  if I buy a faster computer my mp3 [TS]

  encoding will be faster not if you're [TS]

  using an unparalleled mp3 encoder it [TS]

  won't so it gets a little bit [TS]

  complicated okay see you want to try a [TS]

  different angle yeah so what I've been [TS]

  working on lately is this thing where I [TS]

  have a folder full of photographs right [TS]

  or there may be live photos so it's a [TS]

  photograph in and a movie and I want to [TS]

  file them away in a particular way and [TS]

  what I've run into is some of this is [TS]

  parallelizable and some of the some of [TS]

  it is not so if you think about it [TS]

  anytime that I have a any photo that [TS]

  doesn't share a date so if for example [TS]

  on on today which is the 7th of February [TS]

  I take only one photograph with my [TS]

  iPhone I can without worrying about a [TS]

  conflict I can just copy that to where I [TS]

  want it to go right because without [TS]

  worrying about a conflict with any other [TS]

  photos taken from my iPhone I can copy [TS]

  it to where I want it to go but if I [TS]

  take 15 or if I took 15 photos yesterday [TS]

  it's possible that maybe some of those [TS]

  were taken at the same hour minute and [TS]

  second maybe I did a burst or something [TS]

  like that and so some of this is [TS]

  paralyzed of parallelizable in some of [TS]

  it is not I've met when I was relisting [TS]

  last week's episode I meant to talk to [TS]

  you more about how you're gonna resolve [TS]

  your race condition and how you said my [TS]

  thing is bug-free except for the massive [TS]

  reason that's not bug free I mean you [TS]

  could you could parallelize by day what [TS]

  I've what I was trying to explain and I [TS]

  think I've done a poor job of it and [TS]

  that's why I want it to be cut is that [TS]

  if if in the batch of photos that I have [TS]

  I have no conflicts in terms of date so [TS]

  the hour minute and second is unique all [TS]

  of the photos or movies or [TS]

  all the media that has a unique hour [TS]

  minute and second can be processed in [TS]

  parallel so that is to say it may have a [TS]

  conflict in the tour in the destination [TS]

  but it doesn't have a tart or it doesn't [TS]

  have a conflict amongst its peers that [TS]

  I'm doing that that are being imported [TS]

  that does that make any sense at all so [TS]

  it does yeah but I'm honestly I'm kind [TS]

  of wondering like does this problem [TS]

  benefit from parallelization like it [TS]

  seems like it's pretty fast to just dump [TS]

  the files serially so here's the thing [TS]

  the problem with the the reason I think [TS]

  it may benefit from parallelization is [TS]

  that there's two different things at [TS]

  play number one let's say that I took a [TS]

  photo at exactly noon today just for the [TS]

  sake of discussion I took a photo at [TS]

  exactly noon today and it turns out that [TS]

  the destination so my photo repository [TS]

  that has every photograph I've ever [TS]

  taken also already has by some mechanism [TS]

  don't worry about why but let's just say [TS]

  it already has a photo that was taken at [TS]

  exactly noon today at 12 o'clock at 0 [TS]

  minutes and 0 seconds one of the things [TS]

  that my app is going to do is it is it's [TS]

  going to say hey let me take an md5 of [TS]

  the source that I'm trying to import and [TS]

  of the thing that's already at the [TS]

  target and if the md5 is the same then I [TS]

  need to take like evasive action so to [TS]

  speak so I need to increment the the [TS]

  fire I need to add a suffix to the [TS]

  imported file name so instead of being [TS]

  2018 - o - - o 7 space 12 - oo - oo the [TS]

  imported file will be all of that with [TS]

  an A at the end the letter A at the end [TS]

  because they're two different files well [TS]

  if you're doing that across a whole [TS]

  bunch of files at once which presumably [TS]

  I am that may be well-served to be [TS]

  parallelized because on an average [TS]

  modern processor you have at least two [TS]

  if not four or six or eight or ten or [TS]

  twelve or 18 cores which are all working [TS]

  simultaneously to solve problems and so [TS]

  it makes sense to split this same kind [TS]

  of operation across all or at least some [TS]

  of these cores [TS]

  where it doesn't make sense to split it [TS]

  is if I have multiple pictures that were [TS]

  taken at 12 o'clock in 0 seconds because [TS]

  then I can get into this race condition [TS]

  that I found earlier which is to say the [TS]

  the the first photo that I'm processing [TS]

  looks at the target and says oh there's [TS]

  nothing there and starts the copy the [TS]

  second photo that I'm processing looks [TS]

  at the target and says oh there's [TS]

  nothing there and tries to start the [TS]

  copy but then they collide with each [TS]

  other and that's the problem that I was [TS]

  running into before and that's in I'm [TS]

  solving it now by parallelizing anything [TS]

  that doesn't have an internal conflict [TS]

  because even if it has a conflict at the [TS]

  target that's fine it doesn't matter I [TS]

  can still parallelize it but if it has [TS]

  an internal conflict then then then I [TS]

  have a problem and so anything that [TS]

  doesn't have an internal conflict can be [TS]

  parallelized anything that has an [TS]

  internal conflict will be serialized so [TS]

  what if you in parallel read the input [TS]

  files get there get whatever date and [TS]

  timestamp buckets they belong to and [TS]

  stuff all that into an array then in [TS]

  then serially just have a thing run [TS]

  through that array look for the [TS]

  conflicts resolve them and do all the [TS]

  renaming serially because like that's [TS]

  gonna be like that's gonna be so fast [TS]

  anyway like you're really just relying [TS]

  on the file system speed at that point [TS]

  yes but no but the thing that I haven't [TS]

  mentioned and I have made I I alluded to [TS]

  this earlier than never actually put a [TS]

  period on the sentence the thing that I [TS]

  haven't mentioned is that my target for [TS]

  all of these image and also movie files [TS]

  my target is actually my Synology so [TS]

  it's not the local file system I have to [TS]

  crawl across the network to do all of [TS]

  these check sums and to figure out if [TS]

  these files are identical or not and [TS]

  some of these video setup that I'm [TS]

  taking I mean like like five or ten [TS]

  minutes of 4k video off the iPhone is [TS]

  multiple gigabytes so if it a rename [TS]

  should be quick right isn't that what a [TS]

  well you could import it somewhere first [TS]

  then do a rename later it really fast [TS]

  yes but what again what I'm what my [TS]

  process is that I'm saying hey I found a [TS]

  identically named file at the [TS]

  destination which in my case happens to [TS]

  be a Synology so I need two MD [TS]

  five both the local file that is on my [TS]

  local file system are at worst on an SD [TS]

  card attached to my physical computer [TS]

  but I also need to do an md5 on the [TS]

  remote file that's on the Synology and [TS]

  that can take forever and that's why I [TS]

  want to paralyze it so anything that has [TS]

  a conflict [TS]

  I want to parallel eyes anything that [TS]

  I'm sorry anything that doesn't have a [TS]

  conflict internally anything that that I [TS]

  know will not collide with any of the [TS]

  other files I'm importing that can be [TS]

  parallelized it's the the what I worry [TS]

  about is if I have 15 files on my SD [TS]

  card that we're all taken at twelve [TS]

  o'clock in 0 seconds that's what I need [TS]

  to do it serially because otherwise I [TS]

  run into a situation where I say oh just [TS]

  the target that makes sense but so but [TS]

  like what when when something is slow in [TS]

  this case it's probably being limited by [TS]

  like the transfer bandwidth of the SD [TS]

  card or the network protocol for really [TS]

  whatever like I dis paralyzing those [TS]

  actually get you anything or is it just [TS]

  clog it up and make everything run you [TS]

  know like where you can run ten things [TS]

  at 1/10 the speed each he's already [TS]

  spent more time writing this program [TS]

  that he's gonna point out that your race [TS]

  condition is like a look canonical race [TS]

  condition which is if something's okay [TS]

  and then go do the thing and while [TS]

  you're going to do the thing something [TS]

  that you check was okay is right so my [TS]

  suggestion for a strategy for dealing [TS]

  with this that doesn't involve [TS]

  serializing any portion of it is to use [TS]

  what other past technologies have used [TS]

  including unix and in this specific case [TS]

  Ethernet you want carrier sense multiple [TS]

  access with collision detection it's [TS]

  kind of getting it what a marker always [TS]

  saying don't do everything in parallel [TS]

  you just need some kind of remotely [TS]

  atomic operation and even with an ass if [TS]

  you can get the stuff on to the nasa and [TS]

  do a rename local to the nasa hopefully [TS]

  you can get atomic renames and then you [TS]

  just try to do your rename and if your [TS]

  name fails because the file exists you [TS]

  increment it and then you try to do the [TS]

  rename again and you do binding [TS]

  exponential back-off and you just let [TS]

  all the parallel things fight it out and [TS]

  because there is no inherent order to [TS]

  things that are literally you don't have [TS]

  any increased resolution if you did [TS]

  you'd put it in the file name right [TS]

  there's no inherent order to the new and [TS]

  pictures right they're all just new in [TS]

  pictures mmm so let me Duke it out you [TS]

  don't [TS]

  no no locks no shared state no wig no [TS]

  serialization and you'd be surprised at [TS]

  how nicely things terminate because this [TS]

  is the network's it tries and if the [TS]

  line is busy it weights a little bit and [TS]

  tries again if it's still busy awaits a [TS]

  little bit longer and tries again and [TS]

  everything works yeah but there is a bit [TS]

  of an inherent order right because the [TS]

  source file name is like IMG underscore [TS]

  1 1 1 1 IMG underscore 1 are you tell me [TS]

  about that so why aren't you using that [TS]

  as your tiebreaker [TS]

  yeah wait you have sequential name from [TS]

  the in the source that doesn't that [TS]

  totally solve your problem well that's [TS]

  why I'm running the collision that the [TS]

  potential collision stuff serially [TS]

  that's exactly why I'm running it [TS]

  serially so I'm guaranteed you've [TS]

  already got you you've already got a [TS]

  unique unique a fire that you'll never [TS]

  have a collision because you've got the [TS]

  date you're doing the import and you've [TS]

  got a sequence number [TS]

  yeah what's what's the problem he [TS]

  doesn't want to put two dates in the [TS]

  final menses problem it's too much too [TS]

  much of an aesthetic is this happening [TS]

  in these file names there no you're [TS]

  right because I want it to be you know [TS]

  2018 most 2018 Oh 207 people are using a [TS]

  and B do you go to a a and then a B and [TS]

  then a see the you think oh ay ay ay ay [TS]

  I've never run into a situation when [TS]

  that's a problem but I understand your [TS]

  point and there's another another bug [TS]

  free program that you'll never be more [TS]

  than 26 conflicts you sir you are why I [TS]

  will never open source yes when the [TS]

  iPhone 15 shoots shoots like you know 30 [TS]

  frame per second burst photos you're [TS]

  gonna have a problem I think the problem [TS]

  is that you're not an old and crusty [TS]

  enough programmer is always fine and I'm [TS]

  like do we need to use unsigned 256 bit [TS]

  something that briefly touched on like [TS]

  source code to like one of those Bitcoin [TS]

  or some other cryptocurrency and they [TS]

  were literally using like that I'd never [TS]

  seen it in like seed like the the you [TS]

  256 type for like for one of their [TS]

  values because they're like 64 bits is [TS]

  not enough we need 200 expensive [TS]

  unsigned precision for this value like [TS]

  AB you are really future proofing this [TS]

  thing that will be gone in two years not [TS]

  not Bitcoin just some other random I I [TS]

  see [TS]

  so moving on so where do we leave this [TS]

  cuz John you did exactly what you were [TS]

  supposed to do which is give it over to [TS]

  me and then I completely ruined it [TS]

  I tried but I think that we have that [TS]

  question has been addressed to the best [TS]

  that we can do in a ski teepee style [TS]

  segment really you should you'll be able [TS]

  to talk about it with Mike when you do [TS]

  like your computer science e-learning [TS]

  stuff if that even that even keeps on [TS]

  and wait a second since when did you [TS]

  ever listen to analog I know you do from [TS]

  time to time but I am vaguely aware of [TS]

  many podcasts like you're my dad the [TS]

  best way to characterize my current [TS]

  podcast listening which is very spotty [TS]

  and diffuse no I was doing that I know I [TS]

  know all right [TS]

  so Thomas no switz saw or something like [TS]

  that writes have any of you ever tried [TS]

  meditation please discuss no I have [TS]

  never tried meditation John I'm pretty [TS]

  sure no I might have done something no [TS]

  you have lots of things qualify as [TS]

  meditation and I'm sure as a teenager I [TS]

  probably did one of those things that [TS]

  was called sleeping thing that was [TS]

  called zoning out no no anyway I'm gonna [TS]

  say no that no is the quick answer I too [TS]

  have not tried anything III have a vague [TS]

  concept of the kinds of things you're [TS]

  supposed to do I I kind of want to try [TS]

  it someday but it's never been more than [TS]

  like a passing notion like that for me I [TS]

  was hoping one of us had done that's why [TS]

  I put this question in there's like [TS]

  surely one of us has tried meditation [TS]

  but nope we've just heard podcast about [TS]

  it you know what I really want to do I [TS]

  really want to get a hypnotized sometime [TS]

  because I think that's bogus I think [TS]

  it's a bunch of malarkey and I don't [TS]

  think it's real but I want to start [TS]

  smoking so then you can try to get [TS]

  hypnotized to stop oh my god [TS]

  now we're gonna hear from so many people [TS]

  about everything that just happen [TS]

  alright so thanks for sponsors this week [TS]

  Kaspar betterment and hellofresh and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  we're gonna hear from listen we just [TS]

  haven't tried meditation but we just [TS]

  helped the truth I don't really say [TS]

  anything bad about meditation Casey said [TS]

  bad things about hypnotism yeah [TS]

  we're gonna hear from the meditation [TS]

  people the smoking people the hypnotists [TS]

  people who have been hypnotized [TS]

  allegedly more like we're gonna hear [TS]

  from all of those people now I think you [TS]

  might hear from the hypnotize people but [TS]

  you won't hear were smokers who's gonna [TS]

  object to the joke about smoking [TS]

  hypnotism you'd be surprised [TS]

  hypnotists I don't know it helps some [TS]

  people quit smoking if that's the goal [TS]

  who cares [TS]

  does it work did it help you quit [TS]

  smoking sure yeah I suppose it doesn't [TS]

  really matter yeah you just have to if [TS]

  you believe it works and it actually [TS]

  helps you quit smoking great like stand [TS]

  on your head whatever works don't smoke [TS]

  kids it's terrible now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental oh it was accidental johnny [TS]

  research Margo and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  him [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental you can find the show notes [TS]

  at adp yl is s so that's K sealless ma [TS]

  RC o AR m and T Marco baby update I so I [TS]

  love Michaela to death she is adorable [TS]

  and she is my precious little angel yet [TS]

  if she doesn't learned how to sleep I'm [TS]

  going to go insane she's brand new like [TS]

  this is like this takes a while usually [TS]

  I am extremely lucky to I've had one [TS]

  child let alone two I cannot believe my [TS]

  good fortune that I have had two so far [TS]

  healthy children either one of them [TS]

  could have been unhealthy or had some [TS]

  sort of physical ailment that would have [TS]

  been really unfortunately in so many [TS]

  ways I am extremely lucky but in the [TS]

  heat of the moment it's funny how you [TS]

  kind of forget that I'm so miserable so [TS]

  how long are the usual sleep stretches [TS]

  at night between two and a half and [TS]

  three and a half hours now it's not you [TS]

  which is not terrible but is not great [TS]

  and to be fair the funniest part of this [TS]

  is that Aaron hasn't really woken me up [TS]

  deliberately to help with the nighttime [TS]

  stuff in like a week so I am being this [TS]

  much of a baby and all I'm doing is [TS]

  getting woken up when I hear the cry and [TS]

  then going right back to roll over [TS]

  no this is true this is how ridiculous [TS]

  men are you're really not having a good [TS]

  showing right now oh no I know I'm fully [TS]

  aware of this a hundred percent and [TS]

  maybe I shouldn't maybe I should not all [TS]

  men myself but like okay I mean all men [TS]

  I [TS]

  cannot feed i cannot feed Mikayla I [TS]

  don't have the equipment to feed Mikayla [TS]

  right but the fact that I'm this much of [TS]

  a baby after being woken up like John [TS]

  said by a bunch of like oh yeah oh geez [TS]

  we gotta wake up earlier to go to work [TS]

  in the morning right oh right [TS]

  every part of this is B being but I'm [TS]

  the biggest baby in the house a for me [TS]

  look I can help you with two liquids [TS]

  vodka and coffee I will let you decide [TS]

  when to apply each one to the baby these [TS]

  both go into you at different time don't [TS]

  do at the same time it's a bad idea and [TS]

  early may not appreciated you doing [TS]

  things that she can't yeah that's also [TS]

  part of it but but you know if if you [TS]

  being a little bit happier and a little [TS]

  bit more functional turns into you being [TS]

  a little more helpful unless of a baby [TS]

  she might appreciate yeah right so so [TS]

  yeah this you know obviously this is a [TS]

  hard time for anybody it is it is it [TS]

  could be so much worse like I don't [TS]

  think that Mikayla is is to the point of [TS]

  being having colic I don't know what the [TS]

  right right phrasing is but she is very [TS]

  fussy for a lot of the day but I would [TS]

  not go to go so far as to say that she [TS]

  is like you know Alex was or anything [TS]

  like that like she is she is manageable [TS]

  but horrible Alex by comparison John's [TS]

  eldest was from everything I've been [TS]

  told indescribable bad in a way you'll [TS]

  know you're reached Alex level when you [TS]

  find yourself bringing your baby to a [TS]

  chiropractor oh yeah no no no not even [TS]

  in the baby is it in constant pain is it [TS]

  filled with spice I'm going to go to a [TS]

  quack non-doctor [TS]

  anything scan my baby is it filled with [TS]

  bees like we will try anything that has [TS]

  is there a spell on my baby colic is one [TS]

  of those words it means nothing - it's [TS]

  like what [TS]

  that means you're busy cries oh yeah [TS]

  that's something like I recognize that [TS]

  I'm being the biggest baby in the world [TS]

  I I mean that you're doing something [TS]

  hard right like it's for anybody even [TS]

  even for like the weak baby men it's [TS]

  having a new infant in the house that [TS]

  you're caring for is a lot of work and [TS]

  it's hard on everybody so you know you [TS]

  don't need to belittle yourself over [TS]

  that it's hard for everybody it's not [TS]

  constructive or useful to get into like [TS]

  trying to outdo each other of like oh [TS]

  well it's hard for me well it's hard for [TS]

  me to like don't worry about that like [TS]

  that's not constructive it's hard for [TS]

  everybody it's hard for you it's hard [TS]

  for Aaron it's hard for Mikayla it's [TS]

  probably hard for Declan to like it's [TS]

  hard for everyone second sleeping like a [TS]

  baby so to speak thankfully misery feels [TS]

  like unfair it's like oh come on you [TS]

  can't wake the other one up we did all [TS]

  the work like it's everyone it's a hard [TS]

  time for everyone so the best thing you [TS]

  can do is just try to be as functional [TS]

  and useful as you can and try to add as [TS]

  little drama and problems as possible to [TS]

  the situation that is already very hard [TS]

  on everybody so whatever you need to do [TS]

  to do that do that so if that's coffee [TS]

  sometimes I'm vodka some other times [TS]

  fine keep it under control but if [TS]

  otherwise fine like you know if it just [TS]

  like cuz like that's the most helpful [TS]

  thing you can do right now for everyone [TS]

  including yourself is to try to make [TS]

  yourself useful and to try to not get [TS]

  bogged down by the hardships and drama [TS]

  of this although like wait you were [TS]

  trying to remind yourself how lucky you [TS]

  are which is a place that parents often [TS]

  go to try and I found a perhaps more [TS]

  successful method is to remind yourself [TS]

  in it you should have an easy time for [TS]

  this to remind yourself this this will [TS]

  pass like they don't stay they don't [TS]

  stay babies forever like you you can do [TS]

  it you have done it and this will pass [TS]

  and I find I personally find that much [TS]

  more comforting than trying to remind [TS]

  myself lucky [TS]

  because that's like okay another night [TS]

  off the chalkboard like the kid is [TS]

  getting older this he's he or she is not [TS]

  going to be three months old forever yes [TS]

  literally earlier tonight as we were [TS]

  recording [TS]

  I sent the following text to Aaron but [TS]

  in the same way nobody goes to college [TS]

  in diapers she will eventually learn to [TS]

  sleep that's a big one with potty [TS]

  training is the other time you remind [TS]

  yourself most kids are not thirty and [TS]

  still going in the diaper it's gonna [TS]

  happen I remember reminding Marco of [TS]

  that remember but now it's done like [TS]

  it's it's totally like it's it's kind of [TS]

  surprising like you know it seems like [TS]

  you're doing it forever and then one day [TS]

  it just kind of just you're past it it [TS]

  just happens that he's probably not [TS]

  gonna go off to college with diapers [TS]

  exactly and it seems like when you're in [TS]

  it it seems like it's never gonna end [TS]

  and you're like oh my god what is the [TS]

  problem here good effect over to the [TS]

  chiropractor yeah I know but the reality [TS]

  is like yeah it'll end and so you just [TS]

  you know get through it keep yourself [TS]

  and your family healthy and as happy as [TS]

  possible given the challenge and and do [TS]

  like I'm not saying you have to go to [TS]

  the extreme I'm going to like your your [TS]

  local neighborhood like psychic or [TS]

  Exorcist but you bring up all the issues [TS]

  with the doctor because some babies have [TS]

  reflux and there's all sorts of [TS]

  legitimate reasons that can be treated [TS]

  they can they can help and so you might [TS]

  you should exhaust those right just [TS]

  maybe don't go the step further and [TS]

  start you know being totally desperate [TS]

  you know from having a kid before you [TS]

  know that things are hard for a while [TS]

  and then they end and there's you know [TS]

  there's new challenges that arise but [TS]

  like whatever you know whatever [TS]

  challenge you're in it eventually ends [TS]

  and then you know so you get to move on [TS]

  and that's just a thing that becomes [TS]

  automatic now it's nice so like [TS]

  eventually she will sleep and it won't [TS]

  be that big of a problem and it's it [TS]

  might happen next week or it might take [TS]

  two years or more likely somewhere in [TS]

  between and it you know you know it's [TS]

  coming it's gonna be hard until it gets [TS]

  here but you did it once before you can [TS]

  do it again [TS]

  you are a human you are an adult you can [TS]

  do hard things like also you don't have [TS]

  a choice yeah this is like I am very [TS]

  happy and I'm sure underscore will be - [TS]

  to teach you how to use coffee it's [TS]

  wonderful faces so many way or at least [TS]

  it improves so much of this like there's [TS]

  a reason why coffee is so popular this [TS]

  is a thing I don't know if you heard [TS]

  about it in the world but it really does [TS]

  help [TS]

  Tiny's Drive kids but it's nice it helps [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  Syracuse let me down if his beloved [TS]

  Accord could be had with a stick with [TS]

  anything other than cloth and basically [TS]

  no other options I would have won all [TS]

  seats are great were you talking about [TS]

  people love to get really fancy [TS]

  expensive luxury cars with cloth seats [TS]

  because there's so much better than [TS]

  leather you know what's awesome static [TS]

  in the winter when you rub against them [TS]

  you get static I live in the winter [TS]

  place I don't have static and quasi [TS]

  that's fine all right no but that is a [TS]

  thing of people wanting cloth seats in [TS]

  their luxury sporty cars because they [TS]

  grip you better right and also there how [TS]

  could rip you better that makes no sense [TS]

  leather is not literally sticky but kind [TS]

  of sort of sleeve you do kind of slide [TS]

  on leather when it's cold but if you [TS]

  better in this summer they caught the [TS]

  cloth seats no it's funny because I've [TS]

  been talking to a couple other friends [TS]

  of mine this is the one that had the r32 [TS]

  and previously before that the m3 the 96 [TS]

  m3 and he's the one that suggested both [TS]

  the legacy in the 335 so I really should [TS]

  never trust him about any car ever [TS]

  and he's also suggested the go far by [TS]

  the way but anyway I was talking to him [TS]

  and another friend of ours about how you [TS]

  know I really want to go far but I [TS]

  really want a sunroof like I really [TS]

  really really don't like not having a [TS]

  sunroof [TS]

  and then oh you know you wouldn't even [TS]

  mousse it you wouldn't even know and I [TS]

  feel like that's sort of kinda the [TS]

  conversation we're having now you don't [TS]

  even know you you have no cloth seats [TS]

  and forever clothes teach a better [TS]

  burger well as attorney wouldn't miss [TS]

  cloth seats I'm just saying the stack is [TS]

  not as big a problem as he thinks it is [TS]

  especially now I would take cloth seats [TS]

  before I'd lose my son [TS]

  that's an interesting question actually [TS]

  I think I agree I think I agree like [TS]

  leather is just making you like feel [TS]

  luxurious and having a nice smell right [TS]

  but leather in terms of just what it [TS]

  feels like to sit in it is not like the [TS]

  Holy Grail is cloth seats with seat [TS]

  heaters which almost nobody makes [TS]

  because then you're like oh I have if I [TS]

  want to get seat heaters I have to get [TS]

  leather right ahead of them in my Accord [TS]

  my nobody makes that these days because [TS]

  basically once you go to seat heaters [TS]

  you also get like the leather package [TS]

  right because it seems luxurious leather [TS]

  you know whether or fake leather yeah I [TS]

  don't really I don't draw a lot like a [TS]

  line between those two I think like [TS]

  there's fake leather is so good these [TS]

  days that it doesn't really matter which [TS]

  one I have I don't even notice really [TS]

  all I know is to go back a half step you [TS]

  know my friends were saying oh you you [TS]

  don't even know you wouldn't even miss [TS]

  the sunroof in the Gulf are you you did [TS]

  before I do be fine well as it turns out [TS]

  my legacy GT that I had before the 335 [TS]

  it was something to the order of $3,000 [TS]

  to get basically two options and that [TS]

  was leather and a sunroof and I bought [TS]

  the legacy because my then car a 300zx [TS]

  wouldn't stay on the road sound familiar [TS]

  at all and it couldn't stay on the road [TS]

  because it was always in the shop and so [TS]

  I bought the the Legacy GT after having [TS]

  been employed as a real adult for like [TS]

  literally a month or two months or [TS]

  something like that which is to say I [TS]

  was friggin broke and $3,000 would have [TS]

  destroyed me financially like truly even [TS]

  like over the course of you know the [TS]

  four or five or probably even have a six [TS]

  year car loan I was so broke at the time [TS]

  but whatever it was like that $3,000 yes [TS]

  I understand it was only like ten or [TS]

  twenty or thirty dollars a month but if [TS]

  that would have ruined me truly it [TS]

  really would have ruined me so I didn't [TS]

  get it and I had that car for like eight [TS]

  years I had it from oh four to twenty [TS]

  twelve yeah I was eight years and every [TS]

  single day in the spring summer and fall [TS]

  where it wasn't actively precipitating I [TS]

  hated not having a sunroof I hated to [TS]

  marco's point not having leather less [TS]

  but I hated that too and so I can tell [TS]

  both of you not that you're really [TS]

  arguing with me but I can tell both of [TS]

  you and my two other [TS]

  friends with with confidence that yes I [TS]

  have lived the non sunroof life and I [TS]

  have lived the not leather life and it [TS]

  sucks and I don't want to go back but my [TS]

  leather I just I don't I don't like [TS]

  cloth and that's like such a thing to [TS]

  say it just it feels so not nice because [TS]

  there's a wide variability in cost these [TS]

  cloths disease just basically means not [TS]

  whether or not pretending to be those [TS]

  very wide variability in whether it's [TS]

  fuzzy or like stitched or you know all [TS]

  sorts of different textures and and [TS]

  patterns and all that other stuff I'm [TS]

  wondering what you missed other than the [TS]

  that it feels more luxurious because [TS]

  we've been trained to think leather is [TS]

  fancier I think it was just that I mean [TS]

  even the Saturn that I had the infamous [TS]

  Saturn where the wheel fell off even [TS]

  that head like I'm serious I swear to [TS]

  God why I'm surprised you were like the [TS]

  only person who has like this is gonna [TS]

  let their insider like do you know what [TS]

  kind of car you're getting like it's a [TS]

  lot of people have been saying in fact [TS]

  even in the chat room just moments ago [TS]

  Tim underscore underscore was saying the [TS]

  same thing a lot of people have been [TS]

  saying why are you even considering a [TS]

  golf are why not get a GTI you can get a [TS]

  GTI with sunroof it is not that much [TS]

  slower what is wrong with you why [TS]

  wouldn't you do that and my answer has [TS]

  always been twofold one I would want the [TS]

  best of what I was getting if at all [TS]

  possible because that's kind of who have [TS]

  to come I'll blame that on Marco but [TS]

  it's kind of always been a bit of me any [TS]

  yeah come on that's like saying like oh [TS]

  I drink and I become mature like no [TS]

  you're just a jerk or when you drink [TS]

  like it's like this has always been [TS]

  inside of you it's true but I don't know [TS]

  but I would want why I would want the [TS]

  fastest one and I would want the [TS]

  quote-unquote best one and that's why I [TS]

  think I would prefer the R plus in my [TS]

  experience which admittedly admittedly I [TS]

  have not driven a front-wheel drive car [TS]

  and I don't know 15 years or something [TS]

  like that but I in the past have never [TS]

  particularly enjoyed driving front-wheel [TS]

  drive cars actually that's not true [TS]

  Aran's Mazda was front-wheel drive and [TS]

  although I didn't drive it regularly I [TS]

  definitely [TS]

  did not like the feeling when I drove it [TS]

  it just felt like the front wheels were [TS]

  doing too much I didn't care for it and [TS]

  the GTI is front-wheel drive now with [TS]

  that said my understanding of the GTI is [TS]

  that it actually has like a limited slip [TS]

  differential up front which is weird and [TS]

  kind of like the Dodge SRT 4 from back [TS]

  in the day but anyway all of this is to [TS]

  ask the question do you think you guys [TS]

  would if you were if I told you you had [TS]

  to buy a Golf R or a GTI which I know [TS]

  John you're gonna blow this predicament [TS]

  out of the water someway somehow but if [TS]

  you had to choose between one of those [TS]

  two cars do you think you would enter [TS]

  Tom entertain the front-wheel-drive GTI [TS]

  that has a sunroof or do you think you [TS]

  would have to go all-in on the Golf R I [TS]

  would keep saying like oh there are is [TS]

  the best quote-unquote best but it's [TS]

  clear that you really want a sunroof so [TS]

  it's not the best for you yeah like the [TS]

  amount of time I would imagine you would [TS]

  enjoy a sunroof was greater than the [TS]

  amount of time you would enjoy it being [TS]

  rear-wheel drive or whatever all-wheel [TS]

  drive but yes I'm with you in principle [TS]

  dad why do you gotta use your logic on [TS]

  me because you just you're just cruising [TS]

  down the road at 1530 miles an hour [TS]

  you're enjoying the sunroof on a sunny [TS]

  day and you're only enjoying the [TS]

  slightly different driving dynamics when [TS]

  you're driving hard which is weightless [TS]

  you haven't been in the car with me in a [TS]

  long time have you but anyway I [TS]

  understand your point you should drive [TS]

  more safely look you're talking to [TS]

  people who have Volkswagen things and [TS]

  they're gonna want to sell you while [TS]

  storing things does everybody always [TS]

  wants to convince other people to buy [TS]

  what they bought so keep in mind though [TS]

  that that is their perspective like you [TS]

  know I'm telling you first I told you [TS]

  you should buy a BMW because I bought [TS]

  one now yeah then I'm telling you should [TS]

  buy a Tesla because I bought like that [TS]

  John's telling you to buy an AK or [TS]

  because he bought one you know part of [TS]

  this is to value their own purchase as [TS]

  part of it is because whatever thought [TS]

  process led us to make the choices for [TS]

  ourselves it's natural to apply the same [TS]

  processes to to you the reality is [TS]

  though that when you like you're bending [TS]

  over backwards trying to get some GTI [TS]

  like vehicle to fit what you actually [TS]

  want but it sounds like they just don't [TS]

  make one that is what you actually want [TS]

  and that's a totally fine answer like [TS]

  the answer I think just is they don't [TS]

  make what you want so therefore this is [TS]

  not the right car family for you and you [TS]

  should look at other things that might [TS]

  be so in conclusion I need to buy [TS]

  Wrangler one of the two choices ut TIRR [TS]

  I picked one mark was like [TS]

  oh you should get some told it was the [TS]

  question I have a specific point of that [TS]

  question was seeing if he should value [TS]

  all-wheel drive over the sunroof I'm [TS]

  with John I think you would probably [TS]

  enjoy the sunroof more but I think [TS]

  ultimately neat none of these Volkswagen [TS]

  small you know hatchback things are [TS]

  actually what you want so you shouldn't [TS]

  really it like this is kind of a [TS]

  pointless exercise because you shouldn't [TS]

  really be considering any of them unless [TS]

  what you want completely doesn't exist [TS]

  by anybody but that's not true there's [TS]

  lots of there's lots of cars that well [TS]

  not Lots but there are some cars that [TS]

  you would enjoy more that are from other [TS]

  brands and that maybe you are not you [TS]

  know considering because you don't think [TS]

  you should like in the case of your SUV [TS]

  envy but you know where your friends [TS]

  will accept you for whoever you are but [TS]

  like you know maybe it's because you [TS]

  don't want to pay the price or you're [TS]

  mad at BMW like with the m3 or Tesla [TS]

  with the price but like these caught [TS]

  like the cars you're looking at or not [TS]

  for you because every choice you have in [TS]

  that lineup has some kind of severe [TS]

  downside that you really don't like I [TS]

  know there's a kilise it's Achilles [TS]

  heels all the way down right so [TS]

  therefore none of them are the right car [TS]

  for you and that's okay I know I know [TS]

  you should be test driving these cars [TS]

  though like you always like to talk [TS]

  about them in Hemet just go test drive [TS]

  them just like is you don't cost me [TS]

  anything test drive them in [TS]

  coincidentally I might have a little bit [TS]

  of time outside the house just by myself [TS]

  tomorrow maybe and I've been debating I [TS]

  probably won't because I'm gonna want to [TS]

  come back and save Aaron but I've been [TS]

  debating going to Volkswagen dealer and [TS]

  oh that's right that's why I wasn't [TS]

  gonna do it because I've looked at their [TS]

  inventory and it's garbage but I was [TS]

  kicking around the idea of going to the [TS]

  Volkswagen dealer and driving a GTI just [TS]

  to try it and if there's any part of [TS]

  this segment that Marco you leave in the [TS]

  show would you please leave the [TS]

  following I am aware of the kia stinger [TS]

  it looks very nice well not [TS]

  aesthetically aesthetically whatever [TS]

  exactly aesthetically it's I'm aware of [TS]

  this car you keep telling me about it's [TS]

  ugly it's not beautiful but I understand [TS]

  it ticks a lot of the the checkboxes [TS]

  that I'm interested in except everyone [TS]

  seems to be forgetting that it's to [TS]

  peddle only and if I'm going to go for a [TS]

  to pedal car I'm going to go all in [TS]

  and do something like Tesla or really [TS]

  make my life miserable and get the the [TS]

  Julia Quadrifoglio or something along [TS]

  those lines I'm not gonna get a Kia and [TS]

  get a to pedal Kia it's not happening [TS]

  you're giving up so much by going by [TS]

  dropping the clutch that you better be [TS]

  getting something amazing every day [TS]

  exactly no truly like I completely agree [TS]

  with you I could not have said it better [TS]

  myself [TS]

  and that's that's the thing and ladies [TS]

  Car and Driver the kiyose thing are tied [TS]

  with the BMW 430 I X Drive Grand Sport [TS]

  grand coupe it's a giant long name it [TS]

  was like fastback it's hard I talked [TS]

  about the Kia stinger for a second place [TS]

  in a three car race so they were both [TS]

  massively behind the winner which was [TS]

  the Audi a5 so what is the thing is how [TS]

  far BMW is fallen because I used to [TS]

  routinely win these matchups by a wide [TS]

  margin now it's way behind by not just [TS]

  you know a couple they have a point [TS]

  system not as a couple points yeah and W [TS]

  has lost their way [TS]

  yeah like any any comparison to the the [TS]

  F 30 and Beyond generation of BMW 3 and [TS]

  4 Series has to have the disclaimer that [TS]

  like yeah but these are way worse than [TS]

  made up you used to be so like yeah kia [TS]

  has reached the level of BMW in BMWs [TS]

  degraded state or I forget oh man so I [TS]

  started going to an exercise thing with [TS]

  dip and the trainer used some amazing [TS]

  euphemism to describe my physical state [TS]

  they're like a key astanga marga [TS]

  I think it was oh it was my my D [TS]

  conditioned state like a battery even [TS]

  deaconess you know yeah it's like which [TS]

  is hilarious cuz like it like that [TS]

  implies that I was at one time [TS]

  conditioned which was never the case did [TS]

  you show them your mouse and trackpad [TS]

  hands these hands mouse track that all [TS]

  day with these I've worked hard for [TS]

  these look at how precisely I can double [TS]

  click I'm a computer athlete [TS]

  click I'm a computer athlete [TS]

  but eventually the test-riding becomes [TS]

  exactly as much coding as the coding [TS]

  does that doesn't sound right [TS]

  I know it sounds weird I'm not trying to [TS]

  convert you I'm just saying like this is [TS]

  the that sounds like it's not math this [TS]

  is not the show where we can it's you [TS]

  it's not the show where he commits Casey [TS]

  to drink coffee when when Marko starts [TS]

  writing tests I'll start drinking coffee [TS]

  let's make that agreement oh there you [TS]

  go now you're gonna make him do it we [TS]

  should start with some follow-up and [TS]

  Ravis our rights in in a teepee 258 [TS]

  Casey said he'd rather have Apple [TS]

  throttle the iPhone by slowing it down [TS]

  and have it shut down due to poor pirate [TS]

  battery performance however I assume [TS]

  that's being said by someone owning a [TS]

  relatively new iPhone that's true you [TS]

  should use an older model to really [TS]

  understand the issue I have an iPhone 6 [TS]

  and believe me the slowdown is [TS]

  unbearable [TS]

  one should not be waiting 10 seconds to [TS]

  see an app come up or imagine when you [TS]

  see something you want to capture in [TS]

  photo or film but it takes ages for the [TS]

  camera to launch and you've missed your [TS]

  shot the list goes on and on this is a [TS]

  serious usability issue for people with [TS]

  older iPhones and and they suffer from [TS]

  it daily during the whole day now this [TS]

  is a completely fair point and Ravi is [TS]

  right that I haven't really experienced [TS]

  this because in well lately because I've [TS]

  always been on the latest and greatest [TS]

  phone that being said I believe was [TS]

  either my fix for my success and we did [TS]

  talk about this on the show at some [TS]

  point or another I want to say was my 6s [TS]

  would occasionally just shut itself down [TS]

  and it whether or not it was the same [TS]

  problem because it was a relatively new [TS]

  phone at the time and I think it was [TS]

  during a generation of phones where they [TS]

  did have battery problems if I'm not [TS]

  mistaken and you know what the specifics [TS]

  of why it happened don't really matter [TS]

  but the fact the matter is I had a phone [TS]

  where this sort of shutdown was [TS]

  happening and I remember vividly that [TS]

  there were at least two or three times [TS]

  that I was trying to capture something [TS]

  that Declan was doing with the foot with [TS]

  the phone's camera and it decided to [TS]

  shut itself down [TS]

  what Rabi seems to forget is that [TS]

  booting a phone even a brand new iPhone [TS]

  10 is like 15 20 30 seconds or something [TS]

  like that that is way worse than waiting [TS]

  five to ten seconds for the camera to [TS]

  come up which is also terrible don't get [TS]

  me wrong I am NOT arguing that that is [TS]

  GARP [TS]

  and I can't imagine how tough it would [TS]

  be to have every app open after 10 [TS]

  seconds unequivocally that is trash but [TS]

  I would still take that trash over [TS]

  having the phone completely shut down [TS]

  when I'm trying to capture a picture of [TS]

  Declan or now Michaela like no question [TS]

  I am still convinced that I would rather [TS]

  have throttling than not well the slow [TS]

  this little app launch could happen [TS]

  every single time whereas the shows not [TS]

  only happens once in a while but the [TS]

  reason I put this thing and follow up is [TS]

  not to debate whether shutdowns are [TS]

  worse than slow performance but to [TS]

  reiterate again what I think I said on a [TS]

  past show which is if your phone is [TS]

  doing stuff like really really slow like [TS]

  this kind of slow like I literally I [TS]

  mean I don't know maybe he's [TS]

  exaggerating but if it's literally like [TS]

  10 seconds to launch an app and you [TS]

  noticed a routine regular app like if [TS]

  it's doing things massively so that's [TS]

  not throttling that is something else [TS]

  that is the mysterious ailment that no [TS]

  one has been able to identify that is [TS]

  sometimes but not always cured by either [TS]

  wiping and restoring from map backup or [TS]

  wiping and starting as a new phone why [TS]

  is that cure it what does it do I have [TS]

  no idea but the throttling is not it's [TS]

  going to make it feel slower you know [TS]

  for sure but it's not going to make it [TS]

  do this tight like even if you cut the [TS]

  the clock speed in a quarter it wouldn't [TS]

  take 10 or 20 seconds to launch an app [TS]

  right it's not you know it's it that's [TS]

  too much right it would take a quarter [TS]

  of the time to launch the app or [TS]

  whatever so phones that have these [TS]

  massive slowdowns or freezes and stuff I [TS]

  don't think those are explicable by the [TS]

  throttling the throttling feels [TS]

  different the throttling feels like your [TS]

  whole phone is kind of going through [TS]

  molasses but not these huge things all [TS]

  I'm gonna say is that if you're [TS]

  encountering one of these problems don't [TS]

  merely assume that you're being [TS]

  throttled you may have something much [TS]

  much worse than throttling and what can [TS]

  you do about it the only thing I've [TS]

  heard of some you know like I said wipe [TS]

  wipe and restore from backup or wipe and [TS]

  star as a new phone and that may or may [TS]

  not fix it which is terrible advice I [TS]

  don't have anything better I just want [TS]

  people to be aware that every problem is [TS]

  not throttling people people often [TS]

  complain about how I bother Apple about [TS]

  their software quality and you know well [TS]

  it doesn't matter they're very [TS]

  successful you know they're moving fast [TS]

  they're competitive they don't need to [TS]

  make everything perfect [TS]

  but part of the reason why this battery [TS]

  thing became such a big deal and part of [TS]

  the reason why so many people jumped on [TS]

  the on you know sometimes even wrong [TS]

  information about it but but definitely [TS]

  sensationalized the the motivations and [TS]

  and what was actually happening is [TS]

  because apples had problems for years [TS]

  where I OS has weird bugs is not tested [TS]

  well enough on old phones weird cruft [TS]

  accumulates with with older phones older [TS]

  installations like an upgraded sometimes [TS]

  you have things like this where you have [TS]

  to like restore your phone and that [TS]

  might fix it like this is all just [TS]

  problems that that arise from having a [TS]

  massive amount of technical debt and bad [TS]

  software quality that never gets a [TS]

  chance to get fixed if Apple had better [TS]

  software quality and better testing and [TS]

  better supporting these old devices the [TS]

  battery gate thing would have been a way [TS]

  less severe problem the like one of the [TS]

  biggest reasons why it looked the way it [TS]

  did is because there are so many quality [TS]

  problems with software on old phones and [TS]

  people you know Apple basically handed [TS]

  them on a platter a very good [TS]

  explanation for why their phones are [TS]

  this slow that isn't their fault that's [TS]

  Apple being evil it probably isn't the [TS]

  right explanation as John said like I [TS]

  think most if most people's phones are [TS]

  this slow it's probably not because the [TS]

  CPU speed has been cut down by you know [TS]

  50 or 60 percent whatever it is like [TS]

  this seems like a more severe software [TS]

  issue but the Apple like for years [TS]

  they've been ignoring this kind of [TS]

  software quality and it bit them really [TS]

  hard and there's lots of areas like you [TS]

  things like security where like you know [TS]

  technical debt can really come back and [TS]

  bite you hard maybe they need to really [TS]

  reconsider their priorities and and how [TS]

  much they value and and devote resources [TS]

  to quality of their software and running [TS]

  a little device especially as opposed to [TS]

  just plowing ahead and giving engineers [TS]

  no time to fix bugs alright Andres [TS]

  police rights does anyone other than [TS]

  tech blocker bloggers give a darn about [TS]

  smart speakers isn't there a gigantic [TS]

  market of dumb Bluetooth speakers it [TS]

  seems that way Oliver you're upright [TS]

  electronics [TS]

  I seem to be taken over by on an [TS]

  unreasonably huge selection of these [TS]

  devices blah blah blah I'll get a home [TS]

  pod as soon as I can [TS]

  I doubt I'll ever say a single word to [TS]

  it can't blah blah blah blah middle part [TS]

  you're skipping over the important parts [TS]

  I didn't put the whole for the love of [TS]

  all that's good and holy okay from the [TS]

  from the middle part don't normal people [TS]

  just want a fantastic sounding speaker [TS]

  even if it's not the cutting edge of [TS]

  solving their lazy old white men [TS]

  problems of switching off the mood [TS]

  lights are turning on their smart [TS]

  kettles I know I want a great speaker [TS]

  that connect seamlessly to my Apple [TS]

  devices so I'll get a home pod as soon [TS]

  as I can buy dad will ever say a single [TS]

  word to it the reason I put this in here [TS]

  is like so if I had to summarize this [TS]

  nasai less snarky way it's like [TS]

  Bluetooth speakers we all have a [TS]

  Bluetooth speaker I bet a lot of people [TS]

  do [TS]

  they're everywhere it's kind of it [TS]

  becomes sort of the baseline for so you [TS]

  want a little speaker that's better than [TS]

  your your phone speakers that you can [TS]

  play stuff from your phone or whatever [TS]

  right and he's right there's lots of [TS]

  Bluetooth speakers around so why do you [TS]

  even need all like what's the deal with [TS]

  the home pod if it was just a Bluetooth [TS]

  speaker wouldn't that be fine who cares [TS]

  about things you can talk to except for [TS]

  as he you know puts it like turning on [TS]

  your mood lighting her your smart tea [TS]

  kettles or whatever and he even says [TS]

  I'll get one because he wants something [TS]

  connected Apple devices by dental or [TS]

  assessing a wardrobe i think this falls [TS]

  into the same category albeit less i'll [TS]

  be much more angry as casey wear and i [TS]

  think we've talked about these before [TS]

  and I want to reiterate to it if it [TS]

  seems silly that you're talking to your [TS]

  speaker no speaker who cares about the [TS]

  talking about that seems silly people [TS]

  who say that probably have not tried one [TS]

  of these things and I know if you [TS]

  haven't done it it sounds like a froofy [TS]

  thing but as a technology required to [TS]

  make something that works like this goes [TS]

  down and I argue it's pretty low already [TS]

  considering you get a little Amazon dot [TS]

  that does a pretty good job of [TS]

  understanding what you're saying the [TS]

  utility of it will be apparent these [TS]

  things are not popular for no reason so [TS]

  I would once again urge everybody if [TS]

  you've never had a thing like this that [TS]

  you talked to don't immediately dismiss [TS]

  the idea of talking to it as something [TS]

  that like is a passing fad or a thing [TS]

  that only you rich lazy people do or [TS]

  whatever it is a technology that has [TS]

  utility talking to things is a useful [TS]

  interface in many situations and that's [TS]

  why I think [TS]

  as time marches on Bluetooth speakers [TS]

  that you can't talk to will become less [TS]

  popular in the same way that like [TS]

  smartphones that were not iPhones became [TS]

  less popular because you could do some [TS]

  the same stuff but once you've spoken to [TS]

  something to tell you to play music [TS]

  having to go to your device and flick [TS]

  around in an interface and send the [TS]

  audio to the Bluetooth thing just seems [TS]

  it doesn't just seem slower it is slower [TS]

  it is less convene it's a different way [TS]

  of interacting with things so I would [TS]

  once again sigh do not do not just miss [TS]

  talking to cylinders there they're good [TS]

  to talk to you know I I understand why [TS]

  you brought me up earlier I I have mixed [TS]

  feelings about this but I think even [TS]

  despite having never had an echo or any [TS]

  I stumbled because I have couldn't [TS]

  remember if that was gonna trigger them [TS]

  or not despite having never had an echo [TS]

  in my house I I think to some degree I [TS]

  understand the draw it's not something I [TS]

  feel like I need but I do think I [TS]

  understand it the reason I'm so grumpy [TS]

  about the home pod is because I want to [TS]

  be able to shout at my home pod hey you [TS]

  know cylinder play such-and-such by such [TS]

  and such artists and in the fact that I [TS]

  can't do that unless I have either that [TS]

  in my library or an Apple music [TS]

  subscription is what bums me out because [TS]

  as I talked about for a very long time [TS]

  previously I would like to use Spotify [TS]

  to do that and yes I am aware that you [TS]

  can do basic controls like you know hey [TS]

  cylinder skip to the next track and it [TS]

  will work even if your air playing [TS]

  Spotify like I get that but the whole [TS]

  point is I want to be able to say hey [TS]

  cylinder play placed on hold by me math [TS]

  and I want it to just work without [TS]

  having to pay Apple for an Apple music [TS]

  subscription this was a more general [TS]

  this person is more general anger is [TS]

  like don't normal people what you want [TS]

  just wanted a speaker even if it's not [TS]

  on the cutting edge of solving your late [TS]

  like it's not your lazy old men problems [TS]

  right and mood lighting and stuff like [TS]

  that it's not that you're lazy it's like [TS]

  saying don't know when people just want [TS]

  to command line so the solving your lazy [TS]

  problems of oh no you're just pointed [TS]

  the thing on the screen with the mouse [TS]

  and click on it like it's just this sort [TS]

  of backwards macho thinking that you [TS]

  don't need any fancy thing to do that it [TS]

  should be fine to do it the way [TS]

  currently works [TS]

  we just want a Bluetooth speaker that [TS]

  sounds good you don't need to talk to [TS]

  things it's like no like people have [TS]

  tried it and it's it's convenient to [TS]

  talk to things sometimes not all the [TS]

  time it's not the best thing in the [TS]

  world but it is an interface that has [TS]

  proven its utility and just because you [TS]

  you don't find utility in it or you have [TS]

  never tried so you have no idea what it [TS]

  would be like doesn't mean it doesn't [TS]

  have utility and doesn't mean everyone [TS]

  who's talking to their cylinders or [TS]

  their phones or their watches or talking [TS]

  to their cars to tell them to call so [TS]

  then I think their hands off the wheel [TS]

  too you know call home while they're [TS]

  driving [TS]

  those are good user interfaces they do [TS]

  not reflect badly on the people who use [TS]

  them and people who think that way [TS]

  should reconsider some brief feedback [TS]

  brief follow-up on my Raspberry Pi music [TS]

  player that I discussed last week lots [TS]

  of people wrote in to suggest that I try [TS]

  something that uses that reads RFID or [TS]

  NFC tags and there's a been a number of [TS]

  projects that do this one of the best [TS]

  ones I've seen is called plastic player [TS]

  and and there's a few of the projects [TS]

  that were similar where basically you [TS]

  have a Raspberry Pi with an NFC reading [TS]

  board and you stick NFC stickers to the [TS]

  back of some kind of like card or [TS]

  something there was also a really [TS]

  awesome original NES like it like kind [TS]

  of like an NES mini project that [TS]

  somebody made that used RFID reading [TS]

  cartridges like he would he made like [TS]

  little mini versions of old NES [TS]

  cartridges in throw them into an old [TS]

  mini NES had like the power and reset [TS]

  buttons all wired up to actually do [TS]

  correct things and it was but in the in [TS]

  reality it wasn't playing the games off [TS]

  of the cartridges it was playing them [TS]

  off of internal memory and the [TS]

  cartridges were simply telling it what [TS]

  to play and that's how all these RFID [TS]

  based music players work - some of them [TS]

  play them off a Spotify or something [TS]

  some of them play them off of internal [TS]

  storage so I started playing with this I [TS]

  actually I got a NFC board I was a [TS]

  little hesitant at first because they [TS]

  were there there don't seem to be any [TS]

  kind of like quick little plug-and-play [TS]

  boards like the like the sound cards you [TS]

  can get some that fit the Raspberry Pi [TS]

  hat specification which is like it's [TS]

  just like a board that like sticks on [TS]

  top of the Raspberry Pi it like with [TS]

  like a predefined connector on the on [TS]

  the main i/o connector and you just kind [TS]

  of stick it on and it stacks on top [TS]

  nicely and it's like plug and play and [TS]

  it just works pretty easily [TS]

  there's none of those 4r [TS]

  NFC reading that I could find at least [TS]

  none that were maintained so I had to [TS]

  get like a different board that required [TS]

  me to actually acquire it and then later [TS]

  on I soldered some stuff and it was kind [TS]

  of fun but and I'm terrible at soldering [TS]

  this is the first time I've done it in [TS]

  years and still terrible at it but [TS]

  slowly getting less terrible anyway so [TS]

  now I have one that plays via NFC it's [TS]

  just using internal storage and the NFC [TS]

  cards that I'm sticking like on the [TS]

  reader just play the album and it's [TS]

  really nice it's still a little bit in [TS]

  progress but I'm really enjoying it so [TS]

  far I'm kind of I'm really enjoying this [TS]

  crazy little world of making fun crap as [TS]

  as you know procrastination when I'm [TS]

  waiting for overcast to get through test [TS]

  flight beta review or something like [TS]

  that it's it's nice and yeah I'm really [TS]

  enjoying this world that's about all I [TS]

  don't have anything to show for it yet [TS]

  but it's coming along well it's getting [TS]

  pretty cool and so once it's done I'll [TS]

  like take pictures and make a blog post [TS]

  maybe I don't know you sure you should [TS]

  get TIFF to help you design the case for [TS]

  it you can do you know she can make a [TS]

  nice case or do something like painting [TS]

  on the outside you got to involve her in [TS]

  this project show she'll allow you to [TS]

  put this thing in a prominent place in [TS]

  the home hi so I actually already have [TS]

  version one of it in a case in a [TS]

  prominent place in the home that she has [TS]

  approved I'm I'm not going to spoil what [TS]

  the case is yet I will tell you that it [TS]

  was manufactured by Apple oh my anyway [TS]

  once it's done I'll take pictures I'm [TS]

  gonna I actually ordered a Raspberry Pi [TS]

  0 W which is much smaller than the [TS]

  full-size Raspberry Pi to help it fit [TS]

  better into this case but we will see [TS]

  how that goes when it arrives you should [TS]

  have saved your trashcan so you could [TS]

  chuck these little NFC cards into the [TS]

  trashcan [TS]

  chuck them into the hole and then they [TS]

  rattle down to the bottom and it plays [TS]

  the the song eventually you have to turn [TS]

  the thing upside down and empty em all [TS]

  out do the trash we respond to this week [TS]

  by hello fresh for $30 off your first [TS]

  week visit hellofresh comm and enter [TS]

  code 80 P 30 at checkout hello and fresh [TS]

  is a meal kit delivery service that [TS]

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  choose your delivery day for when it [TS]

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  actually like plans like this because it [TS]

  lets me like normally I'm a meat-eater [TS]

  but I like say eating less meat over [TS]

  time and so the things like this are a [TS]

  wonderful way with their veggie plan at [TS]

  hellofresh to eat less meat if you want [TS]

  to do that or if you want to try it try [TS]

  that out and of course if you are [TS]

  vegetarian this is very very helpful [TS]

  it's also a family plan with quick and [TS]

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  hellofresh visit hellofresh com and [TS]

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  that's hellofresh comm code ATP 30 a [TS]

  check out for $30 off your first week of [TS]

  hellofresh thank you so much - hello [TS]

  fresh for sponsoring our show apparently [TS]

  in the last week or so there have been [TS]

  some rejections of iPhone apps or iOS [TS]

  apps I guess I should say that use emoji [TS]

  as part of the user interface the [TS]

  rejections have said something along the [TS]

  lines of listen that's you know Apple [TS]

  copyrighted material which really is [TS]

  true you can't use that in a campion [TS]

  screenshots you really got to change [TS]

  your app let me start by saying that I [TS]

  am quite confident by the letter of the [TS]

  law Apple is 100% right and they are [TS]

  there's nothing we can really do about [TS]

  it but it seems short sighted and stupid [TS]

  that apple provides all these beautiful [TS]

  emoji and as most of you probably know I [TS]

  do love me some emoji that apple [TS]

  provides all these beautiful emoji and [TS]

  then if you use them as part of you user [TS]

  interface they stomp on you and say no [TS]

  that's not allowed [TS]

  now shortly before we went to record [TS]

  tonight I had seen some rumblings about [TS]

  this maybe being walked back so instead [TS]

  of spending the entire rest of this [TS]

  episode on it I guess we just kind of [TS]

  talked about it and then move along and [TS]

  hope that it's getting resolved but man [TS]

  that just seems dumb like I understand [TS]

  that yes it is their right to do this [TS]

  but it's just dumb I I don't get it [TS]

  and it's I like using emoji like I can't [TS]

  say that I've done this day at work but [TS]

  if I was writing my own iOS app I would [TS]

  absolutely use emoji in my in my user [TS]

  interface from time to time because I [TS]

  just think it's cute and fun but gosh I [TS]

  don't dig it and I haven't had the [TS]

  chance to listen to the most recent [TS]

  connected which will link in the show [TS]

  notes where Jeremy Burch FMOD mojo pedia [TS]

  is on and I guess that interview is [TS]

  probably pretty good because Jeremy's [TS]

  pretty damn awesome it is you're missing [TS]

  a lot you really really should have [TS]

  listened to it it's it's really your [TS]

  loss [TS]

  I know I will listen to what six hours [TS]

  ago already been a little busy but no [TS]

  the the connected guys of course are [TS]

  dear friends of ours and and Jeremy even [TS]

  though we've never met he's a dear [TS]

  friend of mine he just doesn't know it [TS]

  and so I'll talk with him does that [TS]

  count [TS]

  that is superhot and in any case the [TS]

  point of join it was a giant hot pool it [TS]

  wasn't a hot tub [TS]

  well in that case not so hot no anyway [TS]

  you should listen to that and just [TS]

  certainly one of you guys I guess Marco [TS]

  if you'd like to jump in kind of fill in [TS]

  the gaps here but I just I don't care [TS]

  for it I understand swith in Apple's [TS]

  right but I don't care for it and I [TS]

  think it's a it's just a poor decision [TS]

  so Marco since you seem to be more read [TS]

  up on this than I anything you can add [TS]

  or fill in or kind of clarify for me I [TS]

  mean once again the the the specific day [TS]

  that we are recording is kind of [TS]

  inconvenient for the story because it [TS]

  does seem to be like kind of in progress [TS]

  and still in motion so this may be out [TS]

  of date by the time that I'm able to you [TS]

  know release this tomorrow morning or [TS]

  whatever but I think Apple clearly needs [TS]

  to the final line of what is okay and [TS]

  what is not because certain things with [TS]

  their emoji are [TS]

  you know the emoji is Apple's [TS]

  copyrighted work not that different from [TS]

  you know it's the San Francisco font is [TS]

  Apple's font they own it they can [TS]

  dictate the terms of use one of the [TS]

  things that you can't do with the San [TS]

  Francisco font is you can't embed the [TS]

  San Francisco font on an Android app or [TS]

  on a website you can you can like call [TS]

  for it in your CSS but like you can't [TS]

  actually embed the files that would then [TS]

  show the San Francisco font to people on [TS]

  windows or people on Android because [TS]

  that's ripping off their copyrighted [TS]

  stuff and put it on your server and [TS]

  redistributing it like that's that's [TS]

  obviously over the line so similar [TS]

  things with emoji there are apps [TS]

  sometimes really big apps like I think [TS]

  like I'm not too familiar with the [TS]

  specifics but I think people were saying [TS]

  like whatsapp just copied all that emoji [TS]

  was putting it on all their platforms [TS]

  like on Android and stuff obviously [TS]

  taking apples emoji images and embedding [TS]

  them in your app on Android is obviously [TS]

  over the line and that should be you [TS]

  know enforced by Apple's Copyright [TS]

  Department that makes total sense so [TS]

  obviously there is a line of what is too [TS]

  far the question is where is that line [TS]

  being drawn and it seems like that might [TS]

  still be in flux or the or maybe there [TS]

  was some interpretation by a preview [TS]

  that is still in flux I don't know [TS]

  obviously I think anything that involves [TS]

  you taking the images off the system and [TS]

  and manipulating the images themselves [TS]

  is probably not right and not cool with [TS]

  Apple but I don't think it's right for [TS]

  Apple to say that like a text label in [TS]

  your app can't include characters in [TS]

  this range being rendered by the system [TS]

  fonts that I think is is too restrictive [TS]

  and you know so for me from a technical [TS]

  perspective I think it's easy to define [TS]

  that line you're allowed to use emoji in [TS]

  your app if it's being rendered as text [TS]

  like by the text system being rendered [TS]

  as text that makes total sense that [TS]

  seems reasonable [TS]

  because then Apple can change the images [TS]

  whenever they want it can only ever [TS]

  render that way on Apple's platforms [TS]

  because you're not embedding the images [TS]

  you're just calling for the text [TS]

  characters so if you if you do the same [TS]

  thing on Android or somewhere else it's [TS]

  gonna render the Android mojo set which [TS]

  is what you should be doing that I think [TS]

  is a very good line to draw it's unclear [TS]

  whether they are drawing that line or [TS]

  not one of the [TS]

  that kind of kicked all this off is an [TS]

  app by Sam Eckert called bit tracker so [TS]

  bit tracker has basically emoji all over [TS]

  the UI like in in text labels there's [TS]

  like little emoji Thanos how salient [TS]

  everything but that looks okay to me and [TS]

  so he this is mostly coming out like on [TS]

  his Twitter account over the last few [TS]

  days and originally he got rejected then [TS]

  he got a phone call from a preview and [TS]

  in the phone call it's like a perv you [TS]

  apparently told him that you cannot use [TS]

  emoji anywhere in your app UI except [TS]

  like the user being able to enter text [TS]

  so like if there's a text field and the [TS]

  user can type emoji into the text field [TS]

  that's okay and if you're doing things [TS]

  with that text like displaying a message [TS]

  that someone else sent that person that [TS]

  happens to include emoji that's okay but [TS]

  what he was told on the phone is [TS]

  apparently that you cannot use emoji in [TS]

  the UI in other ways but then app review [TS]

  decided to retroactively Lee go back and [TS]

  approve his app after all and to let him [TS]

  use the emoji that way but we haven't [TS]

  yet received clarification on the policy [TS]

  so whether the policy is actually [TS]

  different we have no idea [TS]

  and this is a little bit you know I have [TS]

  a little bit of skin in this game [TS]

  because overcast has a couple of small [TS]

  uses of emoji in the interface if you if [TS]

  you star an episode a little emoji star [TS]

  will show up if you have not downloaded [TS]

  it but it's simply being streamed a [TS]

  little cloud will show up both these [TS]

  things appear in the detail label like [TS]

  relate the date shows on the episode and [TS]

  and oh and I use the emoji heart it like [TS]

  you know also in tiny little form in the [TS]

  text label for becoming a premium [TS]

  subscriber so obviously I have some skin [TS]

  in this game because if this policy is [TS]

  super restrictive in the way that that [TS]

  he was told on the phone that you can't [TS]

  use emoji at all unless the user is [TS]

  typing it in then everything I just said [TS]

  about overcast would be prohibited and [TS]

  that would be unfortunate but the the [TS]

  unfortunate reality is that we don't [TS]

  know is this is one of those vague [TS]

  AppStore times where either somebody [TS]

  made a big mistake by telling symetric [TS]

  this policy over the phone which i think [TS]

  is unlikely or the policy is shifting [TS]

  which is probably the more likely answer [TS]

  that that they that they're considering [TS]

  feedback and maybe that maybe the [TS]

  considering they went too far so again [TS]

  some policing of their emoji is [TS]

  necessary there's a very clear line [TS]

  where like if you're pulling the images [TS]

  and putting them on other platforms or [TS]

  playing with them as images that's [TS]

  probably not cool but if you are just [TS]

  calling for emoji as characters in text [TS]

  labels in your app being rendered by the [TS]

  text system in the system I don't think [TS]

  that should be prohibited [TS]

  they case you know what you said up [TS]

  front like they can legally that's [TS]

  totally within their rights to prohibit [TS]

  that I just I don't think they should [TS]

  the language of emoji has become such a [TS]

  such a critical part of what's currently [TS]

  in fashion and app design and and how [TS]

  people are communicating and what people [TS]

  expect to see and what they expect to be [TS]

  able to use that I think restricting it [TS]

  from being used in in the kind of [TS]

  innocent way I was saying earlier of [TS]

  like being used like in text labels [TS]

  restricting that I think would be a big [TS]

  mistake for just kind of the the like [TS]

  design landscape of iOS apps and I don't [TS]

  think I pause to worry about like [TS]

  dilution of their brand or losing [TS]

  control of their copyright with these [TS]

  images as long as it's being rendered by [TS]

  the text system on their device and not [TS]

  in other places that actually in my [TS]

  opinion reinforces their brand because [TS]

  then all these apps that have these [TS]

  unique looks that include apples emoji [TS]

  in their text fields can't look the same [TS]

  way on other platforms and that actually [TS]

  I think reinforces the like design walls [TS]

  are on Apple make sure that look if you [TS]

  want your app to look like this cool to [TS]

  have this kind of cool mood it has to be [TS]

  on iOS it can't be anywhere else like [TS]

  III think any any effort to restrict [TS]

  apps from using emoji in the UI in this [TS]

  kind of you know relatively innocent way [TS]

  with the text system I think is not a [TS]

  good decision and and is likely to do [TS]

  more harm than good [TS]

  not you know not to mention it's gonna [TS]

  really annoy and anger a lot of [TS]

  developers so the last point you brought [TS]

  up about emoji being a differentiating [TS]

  factor for Apple's platform is I think [TS]

  starting to get that the angle that I'm [TS]

  taking on this as a Jeremy pointed out [TS]

  in emoji PD Oracle Google has an emoji [TS]

  font too but there is has different [TS]

  licensing terms he describes as an [TS]

  open-source license that allows other [TS]

  projects use it within the term set out [TS]

  blah blah blah but like but it's a [TS]

  different license alright so it's still [TS]

  Google so own [TS]

  it but it's easier to use elsewhere so [TS]

  Jason Snell had a heart of gold [TS]

  recently on six colors talking about [TS]

  slack used to let you pick which emoji [TS]

  you want do you want to see apples emoji [TS]

  do you want to see Google's emoji what [TS]

  are the other choices there was a bunch [TS]

  all their Twitter hostile emoji emoji [TS]

  once not like it had a bunch of emojis [TS]

  clearly like embedded in the app somehow [TS]

  because I think it was like this on all [TS]

  platforms right even if you were on [TS]

  Windows or whatever you can get the [TS]

  Apple emoji and then obviously applets [TS]

  no no and because they were using you [TS]

  know using platforms so Apple must have [TS]

  gone to them because now you don't have [TS]

  that option anymore you get that you can [TS]

  get the Apple ology and Apple platforms [TS]

  but not on Windows or whatever and but [TS]

  if you're on Windows you can get the [TS]

  Google emoji because Google's license is [TS]

  more permissive when it comes to what [TS]

  Apple should or shouldn't do with its [TS]

  emoji rights yes there is the angle [TS]

  that's saying look if you're on Apple [TS]

  platforms you get our nice emoji we [TS]

  think our mode you're good they make our [TS]

  platform nicer to use because we think [TS]

  they're better than other people's emoji [TS]

  and people can use them in their [TS]

  interface like marker or whatever and [TS]

  that's a differentiating factor the [TS]

  other angle is if Apple decided to have [TS]

  a much more permissive license for its [TS]

  emoji what could happen and what I think [TS]

  is already kind of sort of happening [TS]

  without apples permission is they could [TS]

  attain visual dominance but like they [TS]

  could become the face of emoji to the [TS]

  world like the the what they decide the [TS]

  representation of each one of these [TS]

  fairly vaguely specified emoji symbols [TS]

  is what they artwork they choose and [TS]

  their art style and their all their [TS]

  artistic choices could come to define [TS]

  emoji across the entire industry [TS]

  including when they decide to change an [TS]

  emoji or make a new emoji or whatever [TS]

  like that they could become the de-facto [TS]

  leaders of emoji merely by having the [TS]

  most widely-used set uh and you know [TS]

  Google's is very widely used as well I [TS]

  don't think Google is winning that [TS]

  battle judged based on like how often [TS]

  apples emoji are copied without [TS]

  permission rather than using Google's [TS]

  with permission it's like given the [TS]

  choice between Google lets me use it in [TS]

  my app or platform so I'm an Apple [TS]

  doesn't but I kind of like the Apple [TS]

  ones better right so that position being [TS]

  the sort of visual leader of emoji for [TS]

  the entire world also has value [TS]

  I'm not sure the value of saying if you [TS]

  want apples nice emoji come for the owl [TS]

  platform is worth the sacrifice because [TS]

  this happens all the time for me like [TS]

  when you're communicating with emoji if [TS]

  you're just communicating with all your [TS]

  Apple using friends you're all in the [TS]

  same page about what the emoji looks [TS]

  like right but if you're communicating [TS]

  across platforms it's harder to know [TS]

  what their if they're seeing the little [TS]

  face with the teary eyes or the whatever [TS]

  like or the the thing that looks like a [TS]

  grimace that's supposed to be a grin [TS]

  like there can be miscommunication [TS]

  because of differences in art style and [TS]

  people on Apple platforms experience [TS]

  that me as an Apple user I wish that [TS]

  Apple would widely license its emoji to [TS]

  whoever the heck wanted it so I could be [TS]

  sure that other people would see the [TS]

  same things I did because I had the [TS]

  expectation that given the choice [TS]

  they'll choose apples emoji over [TS]

  Google's whose goals is weird and ugly [TS]

  or whatever like I don't know if that's [TS]

  entirely true but I would prefer that [TS]

  world and I think being the de facto [TS]

  visual leader emoji has more value to [TS]

  Apple as a company than retaining its [TS]

  fancy stuff to only be on its platform [TS]

  there's also the issue of like app [TS]

  design quality like you know this is not [TS]

  quite the same but honestly it's not [TS]

  that different imagine if we were not [TS]

  allowed to use the same at the San [TS]

  Francisco font in our apps that Apple [TS]

  had this wonderful system font that all [TS]

  their apps used but the third part of [TS]

  developers could not use the San [TS]

  Francisco font in their apps period what [TS]

  that would mean would be that every app [TS]

  would have to figure out some fonts that [TS]

  it could use probably make its own or by [TS]

  its own license its own so what that [TS]

  would do is not only would all apps look [TS]

  different like way more than they do now [TS]

  and sometimes in bad ways but that also [TS]

  would draw some lines between apps that [TS]

  had money behind them and apps that [TS]

  didn't so much it would make that more [TS]

  apparent and you would have you'd have [TS]

  like a bigger quality a visual quality [TS]

  difference making quality app design [TS]

  less accessible to people and also there [TS]

  would be somebody out there like you [TS]

  know we would all just go use the Google [TS]

  open-source fonts or whatever like there [TS]

  would be some small collection of free [TS]

  or low-cost fonts for developers to just [TS]

  go get instead and so you would have iOS [TS]

  apps [TS]

  the design as you were just saying [TS]

  jointly the design would basically be [TS]

  dictated by third parties like googled [TS]

  who were offering some kind of [TS]

  permissive font that we could use [TS]

  instead the emotion situation if we [TS]

  can't use them in text labels and stuff [TS]

  isn't that different because the fact is [TS]

  app design is including emoji now that [TS]

  is happening it's been happening it's [TS]

  going to happen more emoji is how is is [TS]

  a is becoming an increasing part of how [TS]

  people use computers what how people [TS]

  expect to be able to use apps what [TS]

  people how how things should look how [TS]

  people expect things to look so a lot of [TS]

  apps want or need to use emoji in their [TS]

  UI and if we can't use Apple's emoji [TS]

  there we're gonna have to go get our own [TS]

  made which almost no one can afford to [TS]

  do this with the biggest companies or go [TS]

  you know license some open-source just [TS]

  so you go use some open source one like [TS]

  Google's if we I don't even know if [TS]

  we're allowed to put their license but I [TS]

  know it's pretty permissive so maybe an [TS]

  English case what you said is right John [TS]

  in which case then you know app then all [TS]

  third-party apps on iOS looked like [TS]

  these weird other emoji and then apples [TS]

  look weird by comparison you know so [TS]

  that's not a good situation to be in [TS]

  which is why I think like for the same [TS]

  reason that we are allowed to use the [TS]

  San Francisco font in our apps on iOS as [TS]

  long as we don't like rip out that font [TS]

  and bring it to Android for that same [TS]

  reason we should also be able to use the [TS]

  Apple emoji set in our you eyes as long [TS]

  as that emoji set does not leave iOS [TS]

  well I wanted to be used on Android too [TS]

  because I want the uniformity but as for [TS]

  using it just in iOS Apple does have a [TS]

  point which I can imagine being made in [TS]

  some future to view that would be [TS]

  secession if it hasn't already in that [TS]

  they're not gonna say this but it would [TS]

  almost be better if you if you like [TS]

  ripped off the image as a ping and put [TS]

  it in your app than if you did it as a [TS]

  character because if you do it as a [TS]

  character Apple changes its emoji font [TS]

  from time to time and your UI like if [TS]

  they changed that star to be something [TS]

  totally different and it clashes with [TS]

  you UI all of sudden because it's not [TS]

  yellow anymore and you expected it to be [TS]

  yellow or the cloud that used to look a [TS]

  certain way it looks a totally different [TS]

  way and you know sometimes they change [TS]

  the the emoji so much that semantically [TS]

  doesn't even you know convey the same [TS]

  message [TS]

  it's probably not a good idea to use a [TS]

  little graphic that you don't control as [TS]

  part of your user interface unless [TS]

  you're willing to chase that around but [TS]

  of course once you start taking ripping [TS]

  off the image of it that's even worse in [TS]

  terms of Apple getting all uppity about [TS]

  it's a copyright and everything so again [TS]

  if they gave a permissive license and [TS]

  just consider these like these are free [TS]

  glyphs that you can use in your thing if [TS]

  you want it you know that's the case [TS]

  where I would say if you want to use it [TS]

  as your user interface you can only do [TS]

  it on an Apple platform so it not on any [TS]

  other ones and then that the license [TS]

  would say if you want to use it as you [TS]

  know as text or like if someone types [TS]

  text and they want to see like in the [TS]

  slack application on Windows that would [TS]

  be the case where you say fine you can [TS]

  use our emoji just don't use them in [TS]

  your user interface on Windows but it [TS]

  you can use them for typing on those [TS]

  anyway I think there's a thing there's [TS]

  definitely a way for Apple to sort of [TS]

  have their cake and eat it too and I [TS]

  don't think the the way that is the most [TS]

  benefit to Apple you're setting aside [TS]

  developers the most been an apple is [TS]

  keeping it so tight that you know that [TS]

  people can use it even on Apple's [TS]

  platform and I don't even think it's [TS]

  gonna eat it just to confine it to a [TS]

  because I don't think there's any [TS]

  advantage or I don't think the advantage [TS]

  is worth being that restrictive and [TS]

  saying come to Apple for our cool emoji [TS]

  because people won't and some other [TS]

  uglier form of emoji will spread [TS]

  everywhere and then Apple people will [TS]

  feel weird because they'll send you the [TS]

  grimacing face and other people will see [TS]

  something different and not understand [TS]

  what you're saying and that will make [TS]

  Apple people feel marginalized rather [TS]

  than the other way around I just want us [TS]

  to be able to use some OG on Apple [TS]

  platforms just like Marco said is that [TS]

  so much to ask [TS]

  yeah I mean I've been following the drum [TS]

  but I'm sure I'm assuming that that [TS]

  there'll be some nuances there because I [TS]

  think Apple's goal is to make sure emoji [TS]

  and stuff looks nice on their own [TS]

  platform right I don't think they're [TS]

  gonna be so restrictive as the you know [TS]

  they did let the guys that through but [TS]

  that's just you know that's just me [TS]

  thinking that the App Store has been [TS]

  more reasonable than usual in the past [TS]

  year or so we are sponsored this week by [TS]

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  that's Casper calm / savings and this [TS]

  offer expires February 20th 2018 thank [TS]

  you so much to Kashmir for sponsoring [TS]

  our show I started using its adieu app [TS]

  this past winter I had only one well [TS]

  I'll get there okay I had always kind of [TS]

  used reminders the bill Tina rappley [TS]

  reminders app very lightly like I'd have [TS]

  it remind me of maybe one thing a week [TS]

  and you know simple stuff like take out [TS]

  the garbage you know stuff like that [TS]

  I very lightly used it and it was never [TS]

  really never ly a habit for overcast [TS]

  planning I kept a task paper document [TS]

  since the beating of overcast and even [TS]

  before that since for a lot of [TS]

  Instapaper [TS]

  and I still find the test paper format [TS]

  really nice for like planning a software [TS]

  release for an indie developer like me [TS]

  but this past holiday season I was just [TS]

  super busy and like everything in my [TS]

  life was like half done projects and [TS]

  things I had to you know worry about and [TS]

  check in on and and try to complete all [TS]

  this crazy stuff and I finally started [TS]

  using reminders very heavily and what [TS]

  really got me into it was Siri capture [TS]

  see refresh hurts me a lot [TS]

  but it's pretty good at reminders like [TS]

  it's you know it's not perfect but it's [TS]

  it's close enough that it's like it's [TS]

  useful and I found it to be a very nice [TS]

  way to capture like as I'm out as I'm [TS]

  thinking about something oh [TS]

  remind me to blah blah blah you know [TS]

  okay the problem with Apple reminders is [TS]

  that while the Siri capture on Apple [TS]

  reminders is great [TS]

  pretty much everything else about it is [TS]

  terrible like the the only reason why I [TS]

  ever used reminders to enter tasks is [TS]

  because I'd never had to actually use [TS]

  the reminders app to enter a task [TS]

  creating a task on the reminders app is [TS]

  awful like the the UI is incredibly [TS]

  clunky it's ugly it's hideous it still [TS]

  has a lot of like weird like iOS you [TS]

  know pre iOS seven kind of behaviors and [TS]

  looks and everything it and and it's [TS]

  it's especially horrible on the Mac like [TS]

  it's way worse than the Mac but no does [TS]

  an iOS it the Apple reminders on the Mac [TS]

  is honestly embarrassing and and maybe [TS]

  at some point they're going to do what [TS]

  they did with notes where they like they [TS]

  totally redid the Notes app a few years [TS]

  back and made it awesome maybe that's [TS]

  coming to reminders I hope it's coming [TS]

  reminders but we don't know whether that [TS]

  will happen yet so I started seeking out [TS]

  third-party apps to to help me finally [TS]

  do either of you use reminders or to do [TS]

  apps because of hearing a friend of the [TS]

  show Mike Hurley talked about it [TS]

  constantly I think it was Mike I'm [TS]

  pretty sure it was Mike now I'm having [TS]

  second thoughts but anyway somebody in [TS]

  my life had talked about the app D you e [TS]

  do and because I decided that I wanted [TS]

  to have occasional periodic reminders [TS]

  that were repeating and all I wanted was [TS]

  reminders I didn't want to go all the [TS]

  way into like OmniFocus or anything like [TS]

  that I just wanted to have reminders are [TS]

  repeated I've started using D you e do [TS]

  and if I'm honest I kind of really love [TS]

  it because it does exactly what I want [TS]

  which is reminders often times but not [TS]

  always periodic and most importantly [TS]

  that will nag you to death which is [TS]

  exactly what I need because I'm the kind [TS]

  of person that'll be like oh yeah take [TS]

  out the trash yeah sure I'll do that in [TS]

  ten minutes [TS]

  you know like clear you know clear the [TS]

  notification whatever you can't clear [TS]

  the notification until you did it [TS]

  mistake you can never clear never I mean [TS]

  unless it's complete I know I'm not [TS]

  saying it's not a KC problem but I know [TS]

  myself one has to know oneself and I [TS]

  know myself and myself is the kind of [TS]

  person oh yeah sure I'll get that in a [TS]

  minute [TS]

  and so I have been using do for I want [TS]

  to say three to six months and I kind of [TS]

  love it I just used the default [TS]

  reminders one [TS]

  I'm also because it was the one that had [TS]

  serious support for so long when no [TS]

  other ones did right so remind me to [TS]

  whatever like that's one of the few [TS]

  times I use Siri to do that occasionally [TS]

  I will type them in and you can actually [TS]

  type like remind me to you know do [TS]

  whatever at 7:00 p.m. tomorrow and that [TS]

  will save you from having to look at the [TS]

  UI that lets you pick dates and times [TS]

  which is not fun to use but that's it [TS]

  just never use any third-party apps I [TS]

  use it very rarely it's usually like and [TS]

  like Marco said usually for capture like [TS]

  I'm in a situation where however I would [TS]

  normally make sure I remembered you this [TS]

  is not available I can't put it on my [TS]

  calendar or that would be too cumbersome [TS]

  but my phone is there so you just pick [TS]

  it up baba remind me to do the bubble [TS]

  blah right you know remind me to go pick [TS]

  up my daughter and in 15 minutes to [TS]

  remind me to I'm you know I usually [TS]

  Ferb's you know ro I mean just throw the [TS]

  sauce in ten minutes or whatever that's [TS]

  why I get annoyed that it won't do a [TS]

  repeating reminder for 10 minutes [TS]

  because I don't know why because it [TS]

  won't but but yeah not very frequently [TS]

  but when I do use it it's Syria and it's [TS]

  on my phone and it's plain old reminders [TS]

  quick addendum I should mention that for [TS]

  shopping lists and only shopping lists I [TS]

  also use the app any list which I love [TS]

  it's really really great at doing shared [TS]

  shopping lists before everyone writes me [TS]

  email yes I am aware that reminders can [TS]

  do shared reminders lists I am I am [TS]

  aware that that's a thing I don't care [TS]

  for it I much prefer any list for [TS]

  reasons that are not interesting for [TS]

  right now but anyway I use any list and [TS]

  I don't remember if I stumbled upon that [TS]

  myself or if that's because Jason Snell [TS]

  who is also in any list person had told [TS]

  me about it it could have been either [TS]

  but one way or another if you're the [TS]

  kind of person that wants to have a [TS]

  gross [TS]

  that's shared between you and your [TS]

  partner which is me I'd wouldn't I'm [TS]

  sorry your partner isn't me you know [TS]

  what I mean [TS]

  point I'm driving at is that if you want [TS]

  to have a shared shopping list I cannot [TS]

  recommend any list enough the notes will [TS]

  do that now to the fancy version of [TS]

  notes has that's true that's true can [TS]

  you can make a shared note and you can [TS]

  put those little radio buttons on it's [TS]

  not as nice as any list but you know if [TS]

  you're if you're it's a good way to try [TS]

  out like you see if this is a thing that [TS]

  you'll want to use and you don't want to [TS]

  bother downloading another I've just [TS]

  tried and notes and if it seems nice get [TS]

  a better app like any list yeah yeah I [TS]

  keep mean to try any list because of [TS]

  your recommendations Casey mostly I [TS]

  think it's like I've heard you mention [TS]

  her a few times and yeah because I would [TS]

  like to like right now I just have a [TS]

  shopping list and the way we share it is [TS]

  TIFF tells me hey add this to your [TS]

  shopping list [TS]

  oh that's barbaric that's far better [TS]

  that's a good system that I bet she [TS]

  likes oh I have a worse problem like [TS]

  I've I've been trying to get my wife to [TS]

  use any kind of shared grocery list I [TS]

  bought and subscribe to any list I've [TS]

  tried using notes I've tried using other [TS]

  third-party apps whose names I've [TS]

  forgotten it's just go down my purchases [TS]

  and just the problem is she she just [TS]

  wants to use paper she just wants to use [TS]

  paper it's like in her purse or in her [TS]

  wallet and she wants to use the [TS]

  whiteboard that's on the fridge and like [TS]

  three pieces of paper in the whiteboard [TS]

  I'm like but but those aren't [TS]

  electronically shared and if I read it [TS]

  on the like oh I didn't see it on the [TS]

  whiteboard I had a separate list I wrote [TS]

  down on this piece of paper so I'm stuck [TS]

  outside the digital realm there's no [TS]

  real computer solution to that [TS]

  just like I bet TIFF enjoys the system [TS]

  where she just yells things to you and [TS]

  it's like paper doesn't work for me [TS]

  because so right now I use the app clear [TS]

  and I know I've heard they're they have [TS]

  like a new beta going on that's supposed [TS]

  to be a lot better but I'm not on that [TS]

  beta I'm just using the old one which is [TS]

  like not even updated for the iPhone 10 [TS]

  and everything but what I like about [TS]

  clear is that it's very simple and it [TS]

  lets me manually reorder things really [TS]

  easily you could drag the road it's [TS]

  because what I do with my shopping lists [TS]

  the reason I don't use paper is you know [TS]

  I'll enter things you know however they [TS]

  come to me but then before I go shot I'm [TS]

  the shopper and before I go shopping I [TS]

  reorder them to be in the order that I [TS]

  know they're in the store because I know [TS]

  I know the stores really well like it's [TS]

  so like I know where things are and so [TS]

  all the Rings I'm like okay I'll be that [TS]

  you know walking to the produce first of [TS]

  all the pretty stuff on top and I and so [TS]

  as I'm going through the store I can [TS]

  very quickly check them off [TS]

  Marco why do you do this to yourself any [TS]

  list will do this for you doesn't know [TS]

  my stores well no it doesn't know your [TS]

  stores but if you enter I don't know [TS]

  like banana it will be smart enough to [TS]

  put that in the produce section so it's [TS]

  also a single list will be section 2 2 [TS]

  in it defaults to groceries but you can [TS]

  set up you know other things but if you [TS]

  enter banana it is smart enough to put [TS]

  that in the produce section if you enter [TS]

  milk it's smart enough to put that in [TS]

  the dairy section you are begging for [TS]

  any list you just don't know it [TS]

  alright that's a I will I will [TS]

  definitely give it a shot anyway so [TS]

  going back to my to-do item look I've [TS]

  been trying to talk about for like - [TS]

  alright so what I what I really came to [TS]

  want like I wanted basically something [TS]

  that was fairly simple like reminders [TS]

  that had great Siri integration I [TS]

  basically wanted like reminders Pro like [TS]

  what reminders would be if Apple did it [TS]

  from scratch today and actually put [TS]

  resources on it instead of just whatever [TS]

  the heck is working on it and how it [TS]

  works is probably nobody what I want is [TS]

  reminders Pro basically I don't want to [TS]

  practice getting things done or any kind [TS]

  of GTD like system I know I'm not that [TS]

  kind of person I respect people who do [TS]

  that that's that's great for you and [TS]

  that's not for me at all I want [TS]

  basically a flat simple like single [TS]

  screen home view of what's going on when [TS]

  I complete that I'm I want to disappear [TS]

  I don't want to see future items at all [TS]

  until their date comes up you know I [TS]

  have the concept of like separate [TS]

  projects or lists but I only need like [TS]

  one level of that I don't need things [TS]

  like contacts and tags to also be here [TS]

  like I really just need like a very [TS]

  simple hierarchy very simple like flat [TS]

  structure and I really dislike the [TS]

  concept that most these other apps have [TS]

  where they have an inbox between capture [TS]

  and when it's in like it's home I don't [TS]

  want that extra step I don't want to [TS]

  have to review my inbox I want I want to [TS]

  just say in my Siri command when I'm [TS]

  recording the to-do item I want to say [TS]

  where it goes right then and not have [TS]

  anything in the inbox if I don't specify [TS]

  a project I want like a default list [TS]

  that just all the - I just arrived in [TS]

  that list [TS]

  this is this is basically have reminders [TS]

  works just reminders is terrible in all [TS]

  other ways and I've want something [TS]

  better so the Mac is my primary platform [TS]

  for viewing editing and completing tasks [TS]

  so it must have a good Mac app my [TS]

  primary capture platform is Siri on the [TS]

  phone so it must have an iOS app with [TS]

  Siri integration it should be able to [TS]

  handle recurring tasks pretty well [TS]

  because I have a lot of those and I want [TS]

  whatever app I use to be an active [TS]

  development on all three major Apple [TS]

  platforms Mac iPhone and iPad so some [TS]

  nice to haves I would like maybe to have [TS]

  shared list or shared projects I think I [TS]

  might someday want a web service for [TS]

  some kind of API integration but I [TS]

  haven't in practice actually needed that [TS]

  for anything yet so maybe I won't [TS]

  actually need that after all and just [TS]

  kind of a nice to have like the apps [TS]

  should be pretty because I'm an apple [TS]

  person damn it and I like things to be [TS]

  pretty like I'm like an attractive app [TS]

  that is you know simple and has a little [TS]

  stuff okay so Apple reminders was not [TS]

  doing it for me in many ways I like it [TS]

  you know I like the integration Apple [TS]

  reminders is the only one that works [TS]

  with Siri on the Mac because there is no [TS]

  Sirikit on the Mac so any of the [TS]

  third-party apps no matter how good [TS]

  their Mac apps are they cannot take it [TS]

  take it to do item from Siri on the Mac [TS]

  that's annoying but that's an Apple [TS]

  problem really that's that's not there [TS]

  at the apps fault you know the Apple [TS]

  reminders app will always get system [TS]

  integration abilities and stuff like [TS]

  that first before those are third-party [TS]

  way to do it if it doesn't arrive at the [TS]

  same time so there's a big advantage to [TS]

  Apple reminders they're just keeping it [TS]

  simple keeping in the system and [TS]

  everything but again it's just it's such [TS]

  a clunky app I really didn't like it [TS]

  very much [TS]

  I tried to do it to do it has tons of [TS]

  features it's very much web service [TS]

  oriented so it has really good [TS]

  collaboration features shared projects [TS]

  shared list API integration stuff like [TS]

  that they have apps on every platform [TS]

  but the two duyst Mac app is horrendous [TS]

  it is basically a very poorly wrapped [TS]

  web app like like slack it makes that [TS]

  look native-like it's real I cannot [TS]

  believe that oh it's bad it every [TS]

  interaction with the todoist Mac app [TS]

  feels just wrong and limited and nothing [TS]

  works the way you think honestly I think [TS]

  it's kind of embarrassing if if iOS is [TS]

  your primary platform like I understand [TS]

  like why Federico likes to do us because [TS]

  iOS it's a primary platform and he needs [TS]

  collaboration feature with some of his [TS]

  employees and stuff so that makes total [TS]

  sense but for me as somebody who works [TS]

  alone on a Mac I cannot recommend it to [TS]

  us at all it's it's rough I also I [TS]

  couldn't get over like hearing hearing [TS]

  the way that people like Federico and [TS]

  Mike talk about todoist one of the [TS]

  problems is that Siri doesn't really [TS]

  recognize the the pronunciation todoist [TS]

  you have to pronounce it wrong like two [TS]

  diced or other or like I couldn't get [TS]

  over that like I I know that's that's [TS]

  kind of a stupid reason to not pick an [TS]

  app but like even if everything else was [TS]

  great about it the fact that every time [TS]

  I added a reminder I have to tell my [TS]

  phone to add something seduced I didn't [TS]

  know if I couldn't get past so I also I [TS]

  tried OmniFocus this OmniFocus seems to [TS]

  be kind of like the the good default for [TS]

  if you want a powerful task management [TS]

  system you should probably just use [TS]

  OmniFocus the omni group makes amazing [TS]

  software that they have an amazing [TS]

  long-standing reputation for very high [TS]

  quality Mac and iOS software and and [TS]

  OmniFocus has been around for a long [TS]

  time it's a very mature of tons of [TS]

  guides on how to use it and everything [TS]

  it has first-class Siri integration it's [TS]

  frequently updated very well supported [TS]

  very powerful very customizable but it's [TS]

  ultimately very complex it's far too [TS]

  complex for me maybe someday I will [TS]

  graduate to OmniFocus but I'm not ready [TS]

  for that right now and I might never be [TS]

  you know it has a lot of roots in [TS]

  getting things done and and the kind of [TS]

  people who practice that kind of like [TS]

  more structured system than what I'm [TS]

  looking for maybe it would be possible [TS]

  to heavily customize it to be what I [TS]

  want but I honestly don't have the time [TS]

  or will to do that and again maybe [TS]

  someday I will but for now OmniFocus is [TS]

  just way too complex for me so then I [TS]

  tried things things has frankly the best [TS]

  Mac app I've seen like not among all the [TS]

  Mac guys [TS]

  to do it's a really good mac app I think [TS]

  the mac app is actually better than [TS]

  their iOS apps again first-class Siri [TS]

  integration one thing I like about [TS]

  things is that it's one syllable and [TS]

  it's a regular word that C R you can [TS]

  always recognize properly and it also [TS]

  doesn't sound too nerdy if I'm saying it [TS]

  when other people are around like if I [TS]

  have to say it's a joist to Siri that's [TS]

  rough [TS]

  how many focus sounds okay but a little [TS]

  nerdy things you breeze right right by [TS]

  you don't even hear it right on this on [TS]

  this topic of the names of the app by [TS]

  the way this is another place where I [TS]

  feel like I've been waiting too long for [TS]

  what seems like a pretty obvious [TS]

  advancement this I understand why [TS]

  circuit works the way it does with the [TS]

  name of the app as part of the sentence [TS]

  then you say it but that's not how [TS]

  people want to talk to their phones even [TS]

  if it's a nice one syllable normal word [TS]

  that's not how people want to talk to [TS]

  things right if someone decides that [TS]

  they're gonna use things as their [TS]

  reminder app this should be away in iOS [TS]

  to tell it when I say remind me to blah [TS]

  blah blah I mean to do it in things cuz [TS]

  I use things like it's not I don't think [TS]

  it's asking for the moon and it makes [TS]

  the experience so much better because [TS]

  your interface is talking and once I [TS]

  feel like I have to talk about [TS]

  particular syntax I'm playing a text [TS]

  adventure game with my phone I don't [TS]

  want to do that I want to speak I want [TS]

  to speak in a natural way that's one of [TS]

  the beautiful things that I love about a [TS]

  lot of the cylinders and like my Google [TS]

  home right for my Google home I just say [TS]

  things however the hell it occurs to me [TS]

  to say it and it amazes me that it [TS]

  figures out what I meant in a very [TS]

  narrow problem domain like remind me to [TS]

  or do like there's already a million [TS]

  ways to say set a reminder of all blah I [TS]

  shouldn't have to insert the name of the [TS]

  app I want to use especially if it's the [TS]

  same app every time that would avoid the [TS]

  Taos and it would just make it better [TS]

  this gets back to the you know default [TS]

  apps things over anyway that's I if [TS]

  Apple's looking for something for iOS 13 [TS]

  not iOS 12 make that experience better [TS]

  because we do like talking to our phones [TS]

  we don't like say to doused or things or [TS]

  whatever yeah and and and there was [TS]

  actually they actually midoriko brought [TS]

  this up on connected this week the [TS]

  episode that you all should have already [TS]

  been listening to for the Jeremy Birds [TS]

  emoji interview anyway that was also in [TS]

  this episode and Federico mentioned like [TS]

  like you know people have for years we [TS]

  wanted Apple to have default apps choice [TS]

  for things like the browser in the mail [TS]

  client and I understand why they don't [TS]

  do that and [TS]

  you know there that's been argued to [TS]

  death but this does seem like an area [TS]

  where that's very easy to say yes to [TS]

  like sirikit has a limited number of [TS]

  intense there doesn't seem to be any [TS]

  downside to enabling like a default [TS]

  option for something for somebody to say [TS]

  like okay things is my reminders app [TS]

  like always put reminders and things you [TS]

  know the X or Y is my Notes app like [TS]

  that like that should be that should be [TS]

  supported there should be a system-wide [TS]

  preference to just default that and and [TS]

  if Apple you know really wants to make [TS]

  Syria awesome I hope they consider that [TS]

  but anyway so go just finishing up with [TS]

  things there's no shared functionality [TS]

  like know kind of like shared groups or [TS]

  lists or projects not like that there is [TS]

  no API or public web service but they [TS]

  did recently had an email in feature so [TS]

  you can kind of simulate parts of it you [TS]

  can like get like the add this two [TS]

  things working by basically using email [TS]

  as a gateway one of the annoying things [TS]

  about things his head I can't figure out [TS]

  how to make a new task from Siri go [TS]

  directly to no project anytime you can [TS]

  sit you can say like remind me today to [TS]

  do this thing and things and then it [TS]

  gets no project I think but it gets [TS]

  today I can't figure out how to make it [TS]

  go no project if you say any time it [TS]

  goes to the inbox I don't want it like I [TS]

  don't want anything to ever go to the [TS]

  inbox ever on the Mac you can configure [TS]

  it to basically skip that with quick [TS]

  entry but you can't do that with Siri [TS]

  kit on iOS yet and it annoys me but for [TS]

  the most part I have found things pretty [TS]

  good there's a couple of other small [TS]

  weirdnesses so for instance the [TS]

  repeating UI is really weird like once [TS]

  you get it set up it's fine but creating [TS]

  recurring events is very unintuitive [TS]

  like I mentioned earlier that I don't [TS]

  want things that are in the future to [TS]

  show up until it's their time to show up [TS]

  then is only done on the granularity of [TS]

  the day level so you can't say don't [TS]

  show up until Wednesday at 9:00 p.m. [TS]

  that I have to put out the cardboard [TS]

  recycling all day today I've had put out [TS]

  cut the cardboard recycling on my to-do [TS]

  list even though I really shouldn't do [TS]

  it till 9:00 p.m. you can [TS]

  a reminder to alert you of that at 9 [TS]

  p.m. but it's gonna show up on your list [TS]

  all day I don't love that and and [TS]

  finally the weather it is an active [TS]

  development or not it's kind of a big [TS]

  question mark with things because the [TS]

  developer of a culture code went for a [TS]

  very long span between previous versions [TS]

  and it seemed that many times as though [TS]

  the app was abandoned and it turned out [TS]

  it wasn't but there were there were such [TS]

  long delays that it's a little hard to [TS]

  shake the fear that it might get [TS]

  abandoned again or go for long spans [TS]

  without updates again and so finally [TS]

  after trying all these apps I finally [TS]

  understand why so many of our podcaster [TS]

  friends are always talking about their [TS]

  frustrations with their to-do apps and [TS]

  why there are we switching between them [TS]

  and saying oh now I'm switching this [TS]

  because this thing I know we've me about [TS]

  this other app I finally get it because [TS]

  it's such it's it's a hard problem like [TS]

  this is a very personal app you're [TS]

  you're trying to codify people's [TS]

  internal mental systems in an app and [TS]

  that's really hard to do in a way that [TS]

  pleases many people no at none of these [TS]

  apps are perfect for almost anybody [TS]

  everyone is kind of 70% satisfied with [TS]

  any given one at most one thing I [TS]

  thought of though is that there's really [TS]

  nothing saying that you have to only use [TS]

  one to-do app for everything like case [TS]

  you mentioned earlier that you know you [TS]

  use any list for groceries and you use [TS]

  do for some other stuff like mmm it that [TS]

  is totally a solution like if you don't [TS]

  like the way things does recurring [TS]

  reminders like I could just have some [TS]

  other app remind me to take out the [TS]

  trash like I don't need things to be the [TS]

  app that does all that stuff there's [TS]

  nothing saying that you only have to use [TS]

  one app for everything you can have [TS]

  different to do apps for different needs [TS]

  depending on what they're good at your [TS]

  grocery store shopping list does not [TS]

  need to necessarily be in the same app [TS]

  as like your next version of your iOS [TS]

  app what you're doing for it it would be [TS]

  nice if one app could do multiple things [TS]

  like that in a way that didn't step on [TS]

  each other but doesn't have to be I've [TS]

  settled on things for the time being and [TS]

  I think I'm gonna be here for a while [TS]

  because the Mac app is just so much [TS]

  nicer than the other Mac apps [TS]

  and so I like things a lot it does fit [TS]

  what I want in some ways there's some [TS]

  things about that that are just friction [TS]

  to me but for the most part it's it's [TS]

  the closest I found to good for me but [TS]

  I'm also probably gonna check out any [TS]

  list for grocery stuff and I'm really [TS]

  curious to know whatever the heck clear [TS]

  is working on for their next version for [TS]

  you know other like really casual stuff [TS]

  like groceries but ultimately I'm now [TS]

  using it to do app and it's things and [TS]

  it's pretty nice not perfect but [TS]

  definitely the nicest for me once I kind [TS]

  of got a feel for it it just felt really [TS]

  right for for the way I like to use [TS]

  things and the way I like things to to [TS]

  look and work and behave and yeah there [TS]

  is some friction but ultimately I like [TS]

  it so thanks things [TS]

  what are you use for your calendar [TS]

  calendar and so how do you decide [TS]

  whether something goes on your calendar [TS]

  or in one of those to-do app things oh [TS]

  that's that's easy a to-do app is a list [TS]

  of things I need to get done a calendar [TS]

  is a list of like time slots that are [TS]

  booked so like you know it and this is [TS]

  great apologies to people like Merlin [TS]

  who have talked about this at great [TS]

  length forever but like you know a [TS]

  calendar entry is like a thing that I [TS]

  have to do at that time so like if I [TS]

  have to have a meeting with somebody or [TS]

  recording a podcast like that has to [TS]

  happen at a certain time that is not a [TS]

  to-do entry that's a do entry as things [TS]

  like you know follow-up about this thing [TS]

  I had this email about like you know [TS]

  stuff it's or like you know check out [TS]

  the trash you know sometime today or [TS]

  stuff like that that exactly wanted to [TS]

  be told to take out the trash precisely [TS]

  at 9:00 yes but I don't have to do it at [TS]

  9:00 I have to do it sometime between [TS]

  9:00 and tomorrow morning so where would [TS]

  you put the fact that a plumber is [TS]

  coming that's a calendar entry because [TS]

  that is how that is like a thing that is [TS]

  happening at a certain time it's not a [TS]

  to-do item it's it's an event like [TS]

  that's that's a very different you know [TS]

  semantics thing I think that the line is [TS]

  fuzzier than you're making it sound [TS]

  because anything I feel like has a date [TS]

  and a time associated with it is a [TS]

  potential candidate for our calendar but [TS]

  it's also a potential candidate for a [TS]

  reminder but it's also a potential [TS]

  candidate [TS]