H.I. #97: Tesla in Space · Hello Internet

Select a time to play from there. The line being spoken is highlighted as the audio plays.

1:00:00possibly not be true who would ever

1:00:01confess to a crime that they haven't

1:00:03committed and I was watching this I just

1:00:05kept thinking why don't we have

1:00:08professional jurors I don't understand

1:00:12why it's like an advantage to pull a

1:00:17bunch of randos off the street and have

1:00:22them being the one in in the trial

1:00:25circumstances

1:00:26well because here's the thing I feel

1:00:28like having watched a bunch of these

1:00:29episodes this idea kept coming into my

1:00:33head that part of the problem

1:00:34is not even just that you can manipulate

1:00:37a person into confessing a crime that

1:00:39they did not commit the other half of

1:00:42the problem is the way that the

1:00:44prosecution can manipulate the jury to

1:00:48get a win for the prosecution because

1:00:51the jurors are unfamiliar with what the

1:00:53system is surely it would be an

1:00:56advantage to have people who are

1:00:59professional jurors who are familiar

1:01:02with how the whole system works doing

1:01:05this who don't have to a newbie

1:01:08explained every time here's what police

1:01:11procedures should be who don't have to

1:01:13anew every time be introduced to and

1:01:17convinced and sold on the idea that a

1:01:20confession is not as a reliable piece of

1:01:23evidence as you think it is it's just

1:01:25blowing my mind thinking about the

1:01:26man-hours as a society we must invest in

1:01:31re-explaining stuff too every brand-new

1:01:36pool of jurors that exists and I'm just

1:01:41what like is there something that I'm

1:01:42missing here is there an argument

1:01:43against professional jurors I've never

1:01:45really thought about it until yesterday

1:01:48and today when I was watching these

1:01:49episodes but it's just like I can't get

1:01:50this out of my head why is this not a

1:01:52thing that we have oh you're making my

1:01:55head explode

1:01:55I've thought of so many things to say I

1:01:57can't remember the moment well I mean

1:02:00every jurisdiction is different and I

1:02:02finally talked about jurisdictions in

1:02:04which I've have experiences like a

1:02:06journalist and have lived in the first

1:02:08thing I'd say is in most of the places

1:02:10I've lived we do have professional do

1:02:13their code judges and in a lot of

1:02:16jurisdictions you can choose if you wish

1:02:18to be judged by the judge the

1:02:21professional juror instead of a jury of

1:02:24civilians and the reason most people

1:02:27don't do that is because juries are

1:02:30actually in the defense's best interest

1:02:32in most cases and they would prefer to

1:02:34have a jury so suggesting that a juries

1:02:36are too easily manipulated by the

1:02:37prosecution I think it's the exact

1:02:39opposite and they're too easily

1:02:40manipulated by the defense well I think

1:02:42we could say that they're too easily

1:02:43manipulated right well fair enough and

1:02:46we have this thing that it's enshrined

1:02:47in law in some places that you can be

1:02:50tried by your peers and it's not

1:02:52enshrined in law that you can be tried

1:02:55by professionally appointed government

1:02:58appointed officials who are part of like

1:03:01the establishment and I think that would

1:03:04cause an even bigger problem if everyone

1:03:05was being tried by government appointees

1:03:07you can see that's the thin end of a

1:03:09wedge that's going to get really

1:03:10problematic really quickly I think when

1:03:13you say it like professional jurors

1:03:15you've got this nice idea in your head

1:03:16of like you know just smart super fair

1:03:19impartial people but they have to be

1:03:21appointed and who appoints them a

1:03:23government and as soon as you say

1:03:25government appointed officials are going

1:03:27to be deciding who's innocent and guilty

1:03:28you've totally lost this tried by your

1:03:31peers component of the law that is so

1:03:34sacred to so many people yeah I don't

1:03:36think the judge gets around that though

1:03:38like when you say oh you can be tried by

1:03:40professional juror who was a judge to me

1:03:42that the terrifying thing about the

1:03:43judge is that they are one person I feel

1:03:46like I would almost never want to roll

1:03:48the dice on a single person because a

1:03:50single person is too unreliable that's

1:03:52why you have multiple jurors there you

1:03:55do actually there are some cases by the

1:03:56way that can be heard by three judges

1:03:58okay that's much better

1:03:59we're splitting hairs now but no no but

1:04:01that does make a difference if I had to

1:04:03choose between like a trial by jury and

1:04:06three judges that is much more of a real

1:04:09consideration although that does start

1:04:11getting into against some of the America

1:04:13specific scary stuff first like but the

1:04:14judges need to be elected and then it's

1:04:16like oh god now that's a little

1:04:17different affair or even appointed but

1:04:19also I haven't got numbers on this but

1:04:21I'm almost certain that you get far more

1:04:23acquittals from juries than you do from

1:04:25judges so if you

1:04:26like thinking of being wrongly accused

1:04:29CGP grey i think you may want to

1:04:31consider that the jury I think you do

1:04:33raise a good point that there may be a

1:04:36thin end of the wedge here which is how

1:04:40does a professional jury member become

1:04:43one of those people when you say like

1:04:45their government to point it I was

1:04:46saying like oh no but that they wouldn't

1:04:48be like that it's like ah but obviously

1:04:49ultimately the legal system in some way

1:04:52would need to be deciding who is able to

1:04:54become a professional juror and I

1:04:59haven't really thought this through I'm

1:05:00just I'm just thinking this out loud now

1:05:02but I mean I don't know how much you

1:05:03know about the UK justice system gray

1:05:05but one thing they do this doesn't

1:05:08really apply to you know murder trials

1:05:10and stuff but you do have volunteer

1:05:13magistrates through the country and

1:05:15these are normally people who are like

1:05:16respected people in good jobs and

1:05:19they're and they'll volunteer a couple

1:05:20of days a month to sit in the

1:05:23magistrate's court and they become just

1:05:25like a judge doing like high-volume

1:05:28stuff with people who've you know had

1:05:30minor run-ins with the law and they have

1:05:32like a professional little committee

1:05:34with them that advises them and tells

1:05:36them how the law works and things they

1:05:37can do but they sit there and show their

1:05:39own discretion and and make decisions so

1:05:42you mean like it like it's a civil court

1:05:43no it's a proper court like it's a

1:05:45Criminal Court but it's for more low

1:05:48stakes infringement I don't know a lot

1:05:50about it except I know a few people who

1:05:52do it an old boss of mine at the BBC was

1:05:54a magistrate for many years so once or

1:05:56twice a month she would have to go and

1:05:57do it and she would just sit there and

1:05:59people would make their case to her and

1:06:02she would decide whether they got a

1:06:04rough ride or an easy ride and she had

1:06:06experts there they'd be like a

1:06:07magistrate's assistant that would tell

1:06:09her here's what you can deal with his

1:06:11what you can do you could sentence up to

1:06:13this or you could do that but they got

1:06:15to show the discretion and they were

1:06:16almost like community judges but I mean

1:06:19this is for low stakes stuff she wasn't

1:06:21sitting there deciding whether or not

1:06:22someone murdered their girlfriend yeah I

1:06:25don't know I feel like you have

1:06:27immediately thrown all of these monkey

1:06:28wrenches into my poorly thought-out

1:06:30ideas but I still have this emotional

1:06:32response to what I view as like oh

1:06:34you're just gonna have 12 randos pulled

1:06:38off the streets

1:06:39and they're unfamiliar with the whole

1:06:41process and because I'm watching the

1:06:43show about false confessions obviously

1:06:44my concern is about being manipulated

1:06:46into convicting someone but then again

1:06:48like my scales of justice are weighed

1:06:50very heavily on it's it's far worse to

1:06:54convict an innocent person than to let a

1:06:56guilty person go for you by far so

1:06:58that's where my concern is but

1:07:00nonetheless their inexperience allows

1:07:03them to be manipulated by the defense as

1:07:07well I don't know it's just it seems

1:07:09like it's just in tremendous advantage

1:07:12for the jurors not to all be noobs at

1:07:16the job of handling people's lives I

1:07:18don't know a way around this yeah I say

1:07:21you made you feel that we're having to

1:07:23reinvent the wheel every trial to my

1:07:25mind the problem is also that you're

1:07:26having these noobs go up against the

1:07:29experts and so the trial lawyers on both

1:07:33sides are able to see how jurors react

1:07:38to different things over time or

1:07:40different cases or different ways to

1:07:42present things I just I feel like it is

1:07:44extraordinarily asymmetric I just don't

1:07:49think this is good or Eve even things

1:07:50like you know my dad's a lawyer

1:07:51and that basically excludes him from

1:07:54ever being able to be on a jury ever

1:07:56like when he's been called in to jury

1:07:57duty it's like oh you're a lawyer get

1:07:59out of here like we don't want you on

1:08:01the jury have you ever been summoned for

1:08:03jury duty I haven't but I'm gonna in a

1:08:06bit of a funny situation getting

1:08:07overseas but I received a summons and

1:08:11then there's like a form that you fill

1:08:13out that says lol I live 2,000 miles

1:08:16away it's not it's not going to happen

1:08:18I'm not coming back to North Carolina to

1:08:20sit on a jury have you I never have no I

1:08:23remember once being in a in a court

1:08:26covering a trial and there was like a

1:08:28fire evacuation in the court building

1:08:30and we had to go out through the jury

1:08:32room it was so exciting and getting to

1:08:34go into the jury room and all their

1:08:35personal stuff was lying around and it

1:08:37was like oh this is so naughty because

1:08:38they're so sacred to the jury getting to

1:08:40go through their room was like a real

1:08:42treat I imagine it was there and it was

1:08:45like also often in the lunch break I

1:08:47would go out into at the markets and get

1:08:49food and like jurors from cases who I

1:08:51was covering would be

1:08:53out getting themselves a hot dog and a

1:08:54milkshake as well and a bit like at the

1:08:57airport when you're like really

1:08:58conscientious about doing the right

1:08:59thing I would make such an effort to not

1:09:02look at them or talk to any jurors or be

1:09:03seen going anywhere near any of them it

1:09:05was crazy because you're very

1:09:09responsible very response very

1:09:11responsible member of the media

1:09:12unlike in America all the crazy stuff

1:09:14that can happen where you take a

1:09:15bewildered guy you put him up through a

1:09:17perp walk right in front of some cameras

1:09:18and tell him to apologize to the world

1:09:20for the thing that he's done it's like

1:09:21oh absolutely crazy that that kind of

1:09:24thing can happen in American media with

1:09:25juries but if I was ever called I mean

1:09:29of course I would do everything within

1:09:31my human power to not sit on that jury

1:09:33the number one thing being is I'd be

1:09:36like I will disregard all eyewitness

1:09:39testimony no matter what I'm pretty sure

1:09:41just that would get me disqualified from

1:09:44a jury immediately like I will not

1:09:46listen to any of your eyewitness

1:09:47testimony I really wouldn't want to be

1:09:49in a jury because I think I would just

1:09:51freak out at the idea that like I have

1:09:53to sit in this little box when they tell

1:09:55me to sit in the box and I can only take

1:09:56breaks when they tell me it's time to

1:09:58take breaks

1:09:59I feel like now if I want to go to the

1:10:00bathroom I'm gonna go to the bathroom

1:10:02and I don't care what you guys are doing

1:10:03I would make a terrible juror so no I

1:10:05wouldn't I wouldn't want to be in the

1:10:06box I would do and say anything to not

1:10:10be on a jury so I don't think that

1:10:12that's gonna happen anytime soon there

1:10:14was a case in Scotland just recently

1:10:16that I've just caught up on my screen I

1:10:17was reading about it where it was a one

1:10:20of those nightmare white-collar criminal

1:10:22property fraud type trials and the jury

1:10:25had to sit for 20 months for the case I

1:10:29mean he might as well be in prison if

1:10:31that's happening apparently they needed

1:10:32like counselling and psychological

1:10:34treatment afterwards to go back to the

1:10:36real world and because of Scottish law

1:10:38is really strict about the 12 jurors

1:10:39thing and there were 12 of them if one

1:10:41of them left or something the whole

1:10:43trial would have collapsed so they all

1:10:44had to like make sure they could see it

1:10:45through so the trial didn't fall in a

1:10:47hey this is why I don't want to be on

1:10:48the jury I would forget it like screw

1:10:52your trial I'm going home what happened

1:10:54to those people do any of them have like

1:10:56did they lose their jobs or like did

1:10:58they just lose a bunch of money to their

1:11:00employer I have to pay them all that

1:11:01time sometimes big chunky a lot of 20

1:11:04months yeah I know at least in the u.s.

1:11:06you basically

1:11:06screw it if you get on a jury there's

1:11:09some amount of compensation that you get

1:11:10that is insulting Lelo like here have a

1:11:13dollar a day I feel like you know what

1:11:15keep your goddamn dollar don't think

1:11:17like you're paying me and we're even now

1:11:18you take this dollar and you shove it up

1:11:21your ass for me losing a day of my life

1:11:23so your employer doesn't have to pay but

1:11:25presumably they can't sack you like you

1:11:26must be allowed to go back to your job I

1:11:28hope all right yeah I don't know I don't

1:11:30know how it works with the work like

1:11:31that

1:11:31I don't know but it doesn't sound fun

1:11:33one last thing though that's again

1:11:37watching the show just hammered into me

1:11:40as thoroughly as an idea can be hammered

1:11:42into a person even someone who is the

1:11:44son of a lawyer is the idea of just like

1:11:46the police are not your friends never

1:11:49talk to the police hmm

1:11:51ever for any reason it's like the world

1:11:55shouldn't be this way but it it totally

1:11:59is and it just makes me feel bad seeing

1:12:03people get caught up in the idea that

1:12:05like oh I'm just trying to help the

1:12:07police because they need to clear me as

1:12:09the boyfriend so they can move on and

1:12:10find who the real killer is hmm what is

1:12:13like that's not really the police's

1:12:15motivation the police's motivation is to

1:12:17close this case as fast as possible and

1:12:19you're sitting right in front get the

1:12:20clearance up on the board yeah exactly

1:12:22like you are a file that's a stack of

1:12:26files that needs to go away

1:12:27and if I was ever pulled in to talk to

1:12:31the police about anything it's like I

1:12:33will say nothing unless my attorney is

1:12:34here and be like oh we didn't want to

1:12:36talk to you because the Queen was

1:12:37assassinated and you were in the crowd

1:12:39we have you on CCTV we know you didn't

1:12:42do it we just want to know if you saw

1:12:44anything that could help us I'd be like

1:12:45I'm not saying a goddamn word until my

1:12:47attorney is here I know how you people

1:12:48work I wonder if it would be any

1:12:50different than if someone like you

1:12:51really loved hello had something had

1:12:53happened to them whether or not you'd be

1:12:55like more eager to help the police just

1:12:56out of can't some kind of devotion to

1:12:59obviously it's different if the person's

1:13:00died but but say you know someone you

1:13:02loved was kidnapped and you were

1:13:04thinking well I've got to just do

1:13:06everything I can to help the police to

1:13:07you know get this person back or yeah I

1:13:10mean I know kidnapping said not pretty

1:13:12rare but kidnappings are rare but it

1:13:15puts you in a really difficult position

1:13:16as the only thing which I think it never

1:13:18the details of a never

1:13:20crossed my mind but watching this

1:13:22documentary it also really solidified is

1:13:24in every episode it's it's somebody who

1:13:27has lost a very close loved one right

1:13:30it's it's a girlfriend or its parents or

1:13:32it's a child or it's a spouse and it

1:13:35never really quite occurred to me how

1:13:37horrible this situation is where it's

1:13:39like okay you you have lost your wife

1:13:41and then you're going to spend 16 hours

1:13:46a day for the next three days being

1:13:49interrogated by the police while you're

1:13:52in the middle of the worst emotional

1:13:56event of your entire life and I think I

1:14:01just it had never really crossed me the

1:14:03true horror of that like you're in a

1:14:06daze but you also have these people who

1:14:09are just asking you questions about

1:14:11absolutely everything and you're

1:14:12obviously the number one suspect of

1:14:14what's going on it's like it's not bad

1:14:15enough that you've lost a loved one but

1:14:18you're also getting like bullied at the

1:14:21same time that this is going on

1:14:23obviously the police have to talk to the

1:14:25people who are the most likely suspects

1:14:27because when someone dies is like well

1:14:29let's put that family up on the board

1:14:31like it's probably one of these people

1:14:33so I don't know how to resolve that but

1:14:36it just seems inhumanly cruel to

1:14:40immediately start questioning someone

1:14:43when you find out like Oh their

1:14:46girlfriend has died let's take them to

1:14:48the station right now to do an interview

1:14:52I can't imagine talking to anyone under

1:14:56those circumstances so be like I'm sorry

1:14:58I need to go curl up in a ball and just

1:15:01cry for days for a while like you can

1:15:05call me in a week and maybe I can put

1:15:07together a coherent sentence like I

1:15:09can't talk to police officers now it

1:15:11just seems so cruel but you don't need

1:15:13to obviously you know that you need to

1:15:14try and sort out crimes as soon as

1:15:16possible after they happen before

1:15:18evidence vanishes but let's put that to

1:15:20one side because it is it that is an

1:15:21interesting conflict do you think that

1:15:24you are being naive to think that you

1:15:28can get a confession or someone to tell

1:15:30the truth just with

1:15:32logic or catching them out in a lie or

1:15:35do you think like in a real world where

1:15:38bad people do bad things and then lie

1:15:40about them that you need to use some

1:15:43Dark Arts to get to the truth sometimes

1:15:45and it's unrealistic to expect this sort

1:15:49of goody-two-shoes fair's fair approach

1:15:52and when you're dealing with bad people

1:15:53sometimes a bit of tricking them can get

1:15:55you to the truth I think that the legal

1:16:00system is so important that you can't

1:16:04have it be the system that uses the dark

1:16:06arts I mean that to me is like okay

1:16:08professional jurors maybe there's a thin

1:16:10end of a wedge here where the government

1:16:11starts appointing the people who are

1:16:12going to decide who is innocent and who

1:16:14is not innocent but if you say like oh

1:16:17the police can use tricks to try to

1:16:20catch the bad guys I just can never get

1:16:23behind that because I feel like it

1:16:27sullies the entire system and also just

1:16:31my own personal belief here that I just

1:16:32don't I don't think those tricks are

1:16:35meaningful because of my disregard of

1:16:39human memory I don't think it's

1:16:40meaningful I think it is too easy to get

1:16:43people to talk about things that they

1:16:46just remember very poorly even in

1:16:48trivial ways that documentary that you

1:16:50had may watch episode 3 I'm sure link to

1:16:52if people want to watch this specific

1:16:53one I watch that and obviously there was

1:16:56no recording of the second day of the

1:16:58questioning of this guy so I don't who

1:17:00knows what happened but if we're just

1:17:01going on what we saw in the documentary

1:17:04I loved what I saw that policeman doing

1:17:08was just kind of like building a rapport

1:17:11even though he's faking and being

1:17:13insincere and I can't believe the guy

1:17:14didn't see through it like do you think

1:17:16it's wrong for a policeman to try and

1:17:17build a rapport with someone who they

1:17:19thinks a suspect build up a level of

1:17:22trust even though it's insincere in the

1:17:24hope that you get to the truth I think

1:17:26that's a that's a trickier question have

1:17:29you happened to see also on Netflix

1:17:32there's a series which they fixed

1:17:34analyze series but it's called mine

1:17:35hunter have you happened to watch I just

1:17:36finished it last night

1:17:38yeah so no spoilers for mine hunter for

1:17:41the listeners but this is a mean plot

1:17:44device in

1:17:46Hunter is like building up insincere

1:17:47rapport yeah criminals the big

1:17:49difference there is I feel like in that

1:17:54show the FBI agents are talking to

1:17:56convicted criminals so I think there's a

1:17:58big difference when you talk about

1:17:59someone who has already been convicted

1:18:01at that point like do you want to build

1:18:03up a false rapport with them to get

1:18:04information like whatever I don't have a

1:18:06lot of problem with that but I do have

1:18:09much more of a problem when you're

1:18:12talking about someone who is presumed

1:18:14innocent someone who is just a suspect

1:18:16and yeah I have even more of a problem

1:18:20with it when the rapport that you're

1:18:22building is all pointing in a particular

1:18:26direction so the police officer is

1:18:28saying things like well we all get into

1:18:31fights with the people we love the most

1:18:32and he's like well I've never thought

1:18:34about divorcing my wife but I sure have

1:18:36thought about strangling her to death

1:18:38you know what I mean and it's like

1:18:40that's not building rapport that's how

1:18:44you start planting ideas in the mind of

1:18:47someone going through trauma it seems

1:18:50like it's rapport building and if the

1:18:53person was guilty maybe it would be

1:18:55which is also partly why I selected that

1:18:58episode because I feel like of all the

1:18:59episodes that is maybe the most

1:19:00ambiguous one hmm but it's like it's

1:19:03rapport building but it's rapport

1:19:05building that's pointing toward

1:19:07something so that's why I can't go along

1:19:10with it because it's also a person who

1:19:12is presumed innocent I mean we discuss

1:19:14this issue a bit I always feel like you

1:19:16see it in very black-and-white terms I

1:19:18don't feel like you sort of see some of

1:19:20the shades of grey involved but in some

1:19:22ways I think maybe you're right to be

1:19:25that way when the stakes are so high and

1:19:26it's important that a system retains so

1:19:30much integrity so it's it's it's hard to

1:19:32argue against you although I think in

1:19:34practice like I feel like a lot of

1:19:36crimes might go unsolved but I know

1:19:40you're kind of you know I'd rather have

1:19:41ten unsolved crimes than one falsely

1:19:43imprisoned person but yeah I mean again

1:19:46this is this is where the criminal

1:19:48justice system to me is is the most

1:19:49perfect example of this way I think

1:19:51about a lot of things in society where

1:19:53you can just there are outcomes you want

1:19:56and there are dials that you can turn

1:19:59on this big machine to try to get the

1:20:01outcomes that you want but you don't

1:20:04know exactly how far to turn all of

1:20:07those dials you don't know where to

1:20:08precisely tune them you can only have

1:20:12answers about tuning too far in one

1:20:15direction or tuning too far in the other

1:20:17direction and so yeah I'm particularly

1:20:19with criminal justice I'm always leaning

1:20:21on the side of if we have to tune too

1:20:24far in the direction of letting too many

1:20:26people go that is a vastly preferable

1:20:28option to convicting innocent people but

1:20:33there are shades of gray here but I just

1:20:35I I feel like I can't sign below the

1:20:39document that says I'm okay with using

1:20:43Dark Arts and tricks in the pursuit of

1:20:45justice even if you have the most noble

1:20:49of police officers behind that pursuit I

1:20:51hope you don't use any of these

1:20:52techniques on me when you lull me into

1:20:54talking about SpaceX and a lot of us

1:20:57could get myself into trouble but I'm

1:20:59the interviewer here coming alive you're

1:21:01the cop you're the cop I uh I could see

1:21:04why you'd think that Brady tell me more

1:21:05I'm just digging myself deeper and

1:21:08deeper yeah can I have an inbox full of

1:21:10Elon Musk fans now I'm making casual

1:21:13comments about the commercial nature of

1:21:15Tesla just unrelated to build rapport to

1:21:18you baby listeners don't know that we

1:21:22did discuss the commercial interests of

1:21:25the world for 20 minutes before we

1:21:26started recording coz I was trying to

1:21:28Prime I did like that Falcon heavy stuff

1:21:32you know I know I know I thought it was

1:21:33ghosts don't worry the people no hello

1:21:36Internet this episode is brought to you

1:21:38in part by Harry's Harry's is the

1:21:41company that's all about a great shave

1:21:44at a fair price which is why over three

1:21:46million guys have switched to Harry's

1:21:49razors Harry's is the company that lets

1:21:51you get everything you need to shave

1:21:53without having to leave the house which

1:21:56is my favorite thing about any company

1:21:58or the internet not leaving the house

1:22:00you can just sit at home and the razors

1:22:03come right to your door no effort

1:22:06required no talking to people required

1:22:08it's very nice the company was started

1:22:10by Jeff and Andy two guys who

1:22:13fed up with getting charged an arm and a

1:22:15leg for razor blades

1:22:17so they started Harry's they stripped

1:22:19out all the unnecessary features that

1:22:21you get in dumb razor blades like

1:22:24vibrating handles which do nothing and

1:22:26they took out all of the unnecessary

1:22:29middleman costs of delivering the razors

1:22:32to a company to then sell them to you

1:22:34know Harry's sells you the razor blades

1:22:37directly and so you get those savings

1:22:41because Harry's owns their own factory

1:22:43they're able to deliver amazing quality

1:22:45blades for just $2 each

1:22:47compared to probably $4 or more you're

1:22:51going to pay at the drugstore to also

1:22:53get a dumb vibrating handle that you

1:22:56don't need all of Harry's products are

1:22:58backed by a 100% quality guarantee and

1:23:01they're so confident you're going to

1:23:04love their blades they'll give you their

1:23:06trial shave set for free when you sign

1:23:08up at Harry's comm / H eye all you need

1:23:12to do is pay for the shipping

1:23:14Harry's equipment is just so nicely

1:23:16packaged so good-looking and so

1:23:18convenient you're crazy not to give them

1:23:20a try so claim your free trial offer

1:23:24from Harry's today it's a 13 dollar

1:23:27value for free when you sign up at

1:23:29Harry's com / H I just cover the

1:23:33shipping cost your free trial set will

1:23:35include a weighted organ AMA grazier

1:23:36handle 5 precision engineered blades

1:23:39with lubricating strip and trimmer blade

1:23:41rich lathering shave gel and a travel

1:23:44blade cover so right now go to

1:23:46harrys.com / h i that's harrys.com / h i

1:23:51and thanks to Harry's for supporting the

1:23:53show let's talk about hotmail for sir ok

1:23:59let's talk about a hotmail okay I

1:24:01actually have a lot of thoughts about

1:24:02hotmail ok I know I thought you might I

1:24:04thought you might so there was a story

1:24:08going around the other day about

1:24:09insurance companies and profiling they

1:24:12were using to set people's insurance

1:24:14rates and I think the original story was

1:24:16if people had a name that sounded though

1:24:18of a certain ethnicity they were having

1:24:20higher insurance rates set and that was

1:24:23obviously considered quite unfair and by

1:24:25most people but

1:24:26in the second day as the story rolled on

1:24:28it emerged that insurance companies were

1:24:31setting higher rates for people who were

1:24:33using hot mail addresses than other

1:24:35words they thought if you use hotmail

1:24:39you're obviously a greater insurance

1:24:40risk and you would have to pay higher

1:24:42premiums to insure you like car

1:24:44insurance or is just like an insurance

1:24:46company in general if it's car insurance

1:24:48I have a theory about this think it was

1:24:50car insurance in the story I read what

1:24:53do you think about that profiling by a

1:24:55choice of email sex this is kind of

1:24:58delightful because I think these stories

1:25:00come up with insurance okay isn't it

1:25:04this might be the most boring thing to

1:25:06ever say but I think it is fascinating

1:25:09the constraints that we want to put on

1:25:13insurance companies versus their

1:25:16actuarial knowledge of the world right

1:25:19so if anybody has accurate actuarial

1:25:23knowledge of the world it is insurance

1:25:27companies they will know correlations

1:25:30and expenses that is their their whole

1:25:32job but then there is this intersection

1:25:36where insurance companies run into the

1:25:38real world where we say like oh no no oh

1:25:40no no insurance company this correlation

1:25:43is not okay you can't use this and I

1:25:48feel like insurance companies are just

1:25:50at this this real intersection of these

1:25:53two things where's like they can know

1:25:55things but we forced them to pretend

1:25:58like they don't know things well I

1:26:00thought was it will get to a point where

1:26:02they're no longer like sharing risks

1:26:03right well yeah if they become old

1:26:05knowing insurance ceases to be insurance

1:26:07it just becomes paying first yeah but

1:26:09that's exactly like that is the super

1:26:10fascinating thing right because the only

1:26:13reason insurance exists is because they

1:26:15don't know everything but as their

1:26:18knowledge increases you are 100% right

1:26:22that the insurance company just trends

1:26:25toward the cost of the thing right and

1:26:27then it's like wait there's no business

1:26:28here at all right so is like insurance

1:26:31companies can only exist in a world that

1:26:32has some amount of in certainty and then

1:26:35we want to enforce uncertainty on them

1:26:39as well

1:26:40like the hotmail thing my total guests

1:26:42here for car insurance is that I'd be

1:26:44willing to bet that hotmail users trend

1:26:46much older on average than the general

1:26:50population and I'm gonna say that much

1:26:53older people are going to have higher

1:26:55rates of car accidents than the general

1:26:57that's not true I think older people get

1:26:59cheaper car insurance I think it's young

1:27:0221 year old males that are most likely

1:27:04to wrap their car around a tree and that

1:27:07to me is the prime example of do you

1:27:09allow an insurance company to do this is

1:27:11the teenage boy driving a car if a car

1:27:14is going to be destroyed a teenage boy

1:27:16is going to do it and this is legal or

1:27:19not legal in various jurisdictions to

1:27:21say something like can you charge a

1:27:23teenage boy higher car insurance and

1:27:27some places say yes some places say no I

1:27:30was just suspecting that you would also

1:27:32have a higher incidence of accident for

1:27:35older drivers I'm at least thinking of

1:27:39places in America where I'm always

1:27:40horrified by people who are like wildly

1:27:44unqualified to be drivers who still have

1:27:46driver's licenses that is just my theory

1:27:49like what might hotmail be correlated

1:27:51with I mean you probably are right

1:27:53because you usually are but that

1:27:54wouldn't have been my guess I hadn't

1:27:55thought of hotmail users as being older

1:27:57I can see why you would say that but I

1:27:59thought it would be more the case that

1:28:01they were figuring hotmail users were

1:28:03less professional and therefore maybe

1:28:07less likely to be very responsible big

1:28:11yeah or just like you know anyone who's

1:28:13using hotmail has obviously made poor

1:28:15decisions in their life so they're going

1:28:17to make poor decisions on the road could

1:28:18also just be yes I had it since you're a

1:28:26boy great yeah no so I've just kept it

1:28:28so I do have my hotmail account I do

1:28:30have other I do have numerous other no

1:28:33of course you do but don't use that when

1:28:34you're applying for your insurance right

1:28:36that's that's what you don't want to do

1:28:37this is another dial of society that I

1:28:40don't really know how to adjust because

1:28:42in in general I feel like I'm okay with

1:28:44insurance companies charging different

1:28:45rates to different people but there

1:28:49would come a point where it's simply not

1:28:51insurance anymore if you just know too

1:28:53much about

1:28:54everybody so that like there's going to

1:28:56need to be something like that but I

1:28:57think the hotmail thing is funny and I

1:29:00personally don't have any problem with

1:29:02it whatsoever I don't know how people

1:29:05would react to this but I suspect that

1:29:06there are going to be vastly more and

1:29:09more things like this that come to light

1:29:12through big data analysis and through

1:29:14through this kind of thing where some of

1:29:18my favorite examples of this are

1:29:19innocuous questions you can ask people

1:29:23that will very rapidly zero in on things

1:29:28like who do they vote for in the last

1:29:30election and so you ask people questions

1:29:32like do you like dogs better than cats

1:29:35and questions like that that seem like

1:29:38they have nothing to do with anything

1:29:39and if you are picking really well

1:29:43chosen questions that have been

1:29:45developed from enormous databases of

1:29:48people's preferences you can

1:29:51surprisingly quickly zero in with a very

1:29:54high confidence interval on what did a

1:29:57person vote for in the previous election

1:29:58or all these kinds of things where again

1:30:00like people imagine that they are vastly

1:30:03different from other people but then

1:30:04they're not like there are patterns that

1:30:06exist here

1:30:06you know how they traditionally have

1:30:08some problems with political polling

1:30:09because people aren't always honest

1:30:12about who they vote for do you think it

1:30:13will ever get to a stage where those

1:30:15companies will ring people up and say do

1:30:18you like dogs do you like hamburgers

1:30:20where do you go on holiday and not even

1:30:22ask you who you voted for and say thank

1:30:24you very much and say okay Democrat

1:30:26voter well I wonder if it'll ever get to

1:30:28that point where they just don't trust

1:30:29your answer to who do you vote for and

1:30:31they use the other stuff to get to the

1:30:33truth instead I haven't seen something

1:30:35like that I have some come across some

1:30:37research which does things like using

1:30:40similar methods to estimate voter

1:30:44dishonesty right where you are looking

1:30:48at some information that you can gather

1:30:49about a person and then looking at their

1:30:51actual response and you can't know

1:30:55obviously perfectly but you can put

1:30:58higher or lower confidence intervals on

1:31:00was this person reporting the truth and

1:31:04it becomes very quickly very unlikely or

1:31:07very likely if you can gather enough

1:31:10information on this kind of thing so I

1:31:12do kind of think that that's the case I

1:31:14mean again this is this is much more an

1:31:16issue in the United States where you

1:31:18have to motivate people to go vote but

1:31:22this is this is a real science now of

1:31:24trying to drill down to very very

1:31:28particular individual people and knowing

1:31:30like when do you want to send them stuff

1:31:32in the mail to try to motivate them to

1:31:34vote and you can do that because you're

1:31:37highly confident about who they will

1:31:40vote for with the information that

1:31:42you're sending so I think that is kind

1:31:44of a thing already but either way I

1:31:46think insurance companies are gonna be

1:31:48at the forefront of this because they

1:31:49they are the ones who are at the

1:31:52bleeding edge of being able to extract

1:31:55value from knowing more and more about

1:31:59what data represents about a person's

1:32:02actions in the world

0:00:00I like this podcast it's pretty cool and

0:00:03if you're someone who met someone who

0:00:06knows Brady I can confirm this podcast

0:00:09is legit

0:00:10Brady and gray have influenced

0:00:12real-world events such as the New

0:00:14Zealand flag referendum and a poll on

0:00:16some radio website or something about

0:00:18top audio personalities so rest assured

0:00:21reader this podcast is legit five stars

0:00:27we've been getting a lot of reviews

0:00:29Brady what was that you've met someone

0:00:32who knows someone who I don't even get

0:00:34that that was your call Brady you wanted

0:00:37like acquaintances that your wife was

0:00:40talking to when hello internet was

0:00:42mentioned in reference to you you wanted

0:00:44that person when they went to go look up

0:00:46the reviews on iTunes to see that the

0:00:48podcast was a big deal I've be crated

0:00:51back to myself this is the danger of

0:00:53this podcast sometimes when I make

0:00:54people oh this and they'll say some line

0:00:56at me like and I'll be like what are you

0:00:58talking about but you said that the

0:01:01things I say on the show you're missing

0:01:03out on your own in jokes I say a lot of

0:01:05rubbish I can't remember all of it you

0:01:07asked for something Brady and to quote

0:01:10Henry is cool one on iTunes yep five

0:01:14stars for Brady so he looks more popular

0:01:16five stars

0:01:17I appreciate the five stars yeah we have

0:01:20a ton of reviews they're very fun to

0:01:22read through and there was a very

0:01:24consistent theme through all of them

0:01:26have a hello internet reviewed numbers

0:01:28going like up high enough you know has

0:01:30there been a noticeable bump well I mean

0:01:32Brady we're trying to quench your thirst

0:01:35for recognition we're trying to feed

0:01:38your Hannity here I guess the question

0:01:40really it's not for me to answer if the

0:01:44reviews are enough I don't know if there

0:01:46is any number of reviews that will be

0:01:49enough for you look great I will go

0:01:53along with being stitched up like this

0:01:54and you know because I deserve oh yes

0:01:56yes dude stuff I'm pulling this just out

0:01:58of the air I'm making up things but if

0:02:04they put it in the right context like I

0:02:06didn't know the number right I don't

0:02:08know the number now it occurred to me

0:02:11that if anyone ever goes

0:02:13and looks checks will we look like we

0:02:17know what we're doing right without even

0:02:19having looked myself I just said if you

0:02:20haven't left a review go and do it

0:02:23because it'll look good for us like I'm

0:02:25not there like sitting there watching a

0:02:27counter and like keeping a notebook of

0:02:29the scores and ringing people up and

0:02:31saying have you looked at my reviews

0:02:32right it just occurred to me right not

0:02:34like the Radio Times contest right where

0:02:36that was occurring right no this is

0:02:38totally different that kind of got a bit

0:02:40out of control but I don't think that

0:02:41was my fault either that was a perfect

0:02:43storm that was nobody's fault I mean you

0:02:45can say what you want Brady

0:02:46but according to Raven ho 27 Brady's

0:02:50vanity knows no bounds five stars

0:02:53I'm just telling you what I'm reading

0:02:55here in black and white so when we were

0:02:57having the discussion last time there

0:02:58was a thing which I did not realize

0:03:00which is that iTunes does the counting

0:03:04of reviews separately for every country

0:03:07or I feel like that's a bit of a strange

0:03:10decision to make I don't quite

0:03:13understand why iTunes would say that Oh

0:03:15UK reviews are going to be in a

0:03:17different group than us reviews I don't

0:03:19quite understand that they do that

0:03:21across the whole platform great cuz when

0:03:22I go and look at what the top podcasts

0:03:24are it's always like 95,000 BBC podcasts

0:03:28which I'll come to in another episode

0:03:29sometime because I have thoughts about

0:03:30that and then there's like a couple of

0:03:32American ones and then that's it it's

0:03:34like does anyone else in the world make

0:03:36podcasts other than the baby say whereas

0:03:38I'm sure in America it's not completely

0:03:40dominated by the baby season I can get

0:03:43behind the idea of regional

0:03:45recommendations waiting a bit of white

0:03:48yeah a bit of waiting so when we were

0:03:49talking about having whatever it was

0:03:51like 600 views I think we were both

0:03:53looking at the iTunes U K store and so

0:03:57we're now closing in on like 1,100 of

0:04:00views on the U case or the US store

0:04:03though as you might imagine that's where

0:04:06the big explosion occurred because it

0:04:08seems like most of our listeners are in

0:04:09America or at least the plurality of

0:04:12listeners are in America and we went

0:04:14from something like I think it was

0:04:15somewhere like 2000 reviews to 4333

0:04:21reviews on the US store I feel like

0:04:23that's quite a bump it's such a bump

0:04:25that

0:04:26while I am making fun of you for your

0:04:28vanity that bump makes it feel like

0:04:3110,000 is within our grasp like it's a

0:04:33thing that is possible

0:04:35Harry's : for the numbers now hey I'm

0:04:37just saying look before it never really

0:04:40crossed my mind but now it's like oh I

0:04:43can see it on the horizon it's not close

0:04:46but it's within our grasp Brady so I'm

0:04:50looking at this 4,000 number and I am

0:04:52finding myself thinking this needs to

0:04:54get to 10,000 I said 10,000 as a joke

0:04:57but it's a joke that has lodged itself

0:04:59in my mind so I can see that like we're

0:05:02close there we're close I would be

0:05:03willing to bet if you summed up all of

0:05:07the different country stores we actually

0:05:10probably do have 10,000 are pretty close

0:05:12to 10,000 but I feel like that doesn't

0:05:14count if your wife's friends

0:05:17acquaintances are looking up the show

0:05:18they're not going to sum it up that's

0:05:20not how that works I would love to see

0:05:22it actually hit 10,000 on at least one

0:05:24of the stores probably the US store I

0:05:26feel like right if we can get to 10,000

0:05:28in the UK it'll be like we've cracked

0:05:29America that's like every overseas

0:05:31entertainers dream isn't it you know

0:05:33yeah sure we've done well here in the

0:05:35colonies in that but if we can crack

0:05:37America we can make it anywhere

0:05:40meanwhile we have eight reviews in the

0:05:42de poele store

0:05:43I'll take her I'll take the I hope we're

0:05:44doing well in the pollen I hope you have

0:05:45a high five star rating over there I was

0:05:47making that up I haven't like set up a

0:05:49VPN hidden the poll to see what I mean

0:05:52great lady you can on iTunes you can

0:05:54scroll down to the very bottom and click

0:05:55the little flag and then you can switch

0:05:57to a different country to try to see how

0:05:58you're doing in different spots all

0:06:00right but anyway so yes I have found it

0:06:02interesting the reviews make me laugh

0:06:04people are always funny on the internet

0:06:05but aside from the reviews mocking your

0:06:08vanity there was also a very consistent

0:06:10theme which is people saying like I love

0:06:13this podcast but it's really hard to

0:06:15describe why I have no ability to

0:06:18describe why I like the show and why I

0:06:20listen to it but I really like it five

0:06:22stars so I enjoyed those as well I

0:06:24sympathize with you people because I

0:06:26have the same problem every time I tell

0:06:28someone I'd do a podcast oh I do a

0:06:30podcast oh what's a code and then I've

0:06:32got a let's say hello internet which I'm

0:06:34a bit embarrassed about and they like

0:06:35are really oh what's that about and then

0:06:38I'm like

0:06:39it's kind of like nerdy stuff and flags

0:06:43I feel like we've lured a lot of like

0:06:45vexillology people in under false

0:06:47pretenses and we haven't been delivering

0:06:49lately I think we need a flag bonanza

0:06:52sometime soon I'll see what we can do

0:06:54there but in the meantime I couldn't

0:06:57help but check and just load it up in

0:06:58Nepal store yeah all right what are we

0:07:03on let me guess

0:07:04I'm gonna go with two you are exactly

0:07:09right two reviews in the fall but the

0:07:15store is listing us as not having

0:07:17received enough ratings to display an

0:07:19average for this podcast so get on it

0:07:21Nepalese did they write anything one

0:07:24review is from Nepal and then they put

0:07:27the Nepal flag emoji

0:07:28which I feel like is his on point not

0:07:30realizing that their review would only

0:07:32be displayed in Nepal Nepal we need to

0:07:35let's aim for a target in Nepal of eight

0:07:38thousand eight hundred years because

0:07:40there's the high of Mount Everest in

0:07:42meters I can't any think we're gonna get

0:07:43past 29,000 which would be in fate for

0:07:45it now Freddie that's that's insanity

0:07:47don't ask for unreasonable goals don't

0:07:49do that

0:07:50just the reasonable goals the reason

0:07:51we're goals on the horizon so close the

0:07:57last time Brady we were discussing the

0:07:59airline safety videos and since that

0:08:02episode went up I discovered that it is

0:08:04still Comic Relief season in British

0:08:08Airways comic relief meaning they're

0:08:10taking a break from anything funny I got

0:08:12to see the video twice the space of like

0:08:14eight hours because I ended up flying

0:08:16out to the continent and back on the

0:08:19same day and I was like oh my god I

0:08:20can't believe I can't believe this like

0:08:21Here I am

0:08:22and as I oh god it's so awful I took a

0:08:25little video I put up on Twitter Comic

0:08:27Relief season maybe it never ends well

0:08:29it's not even Comic Relief year this

0:08:31year so they're clearly not bounded by

0:08:32any season here they're just going for I

0:08:35really resent that video as like the

0:08:37kids and watching it anymore but anyway

0:08:39the biggest universal piece of feedback

0:08:41that I received from people is hey why

0:08:44are you watching this anyway why don't

0:08:45you just put on your headphones like a

0:08:46normal person and not not paying

0:08:48attention to this hmm you know what

0:08:50that's an excellent point this is

0:08:52one of these moments where I realized

0:08:55that there is something that I have not

0:08:56really weighted in my life which is as I

0:09:01have mentioned on the show my mom was a

0:09:03flight attendant for many many many

0:09:04years and like because of that I always

0:09:08felt like when the flight attendants are

0:09:11doing the safety demonstration you

0:09:14should pay attention because it's rude

0:09:16not to pay attention I also feel like I

0:09:19something I could be told off for like

0:09:20because being at airports and Airlines

0:09:22is always a time of like we've talked

0:09:24about before you're like hyper

0:09:25conscientious mmm you answer all the

0:09:28questions you know how have you did you

0:09:29pack any scissors no I didn't you were

0:09:31very deliberate yeah and I feel like if

0:09:33I don't watch the safety video I'm doing

0:09:35something wrong and they could like

0:09:36throw me off the plane or or worse yet

0:09:38tell me off in front of other people hmm

0:09:40so I feel like I kind of deliberately

0:09:43would take off my headphones and watch

0:09:44the video just to be like bit of a goody

0:09:46two-shoes and show you the it fly

0:09:47attendants that yes I'm doing what I'm

0:09:49supposed to do I'm a good person yeah

0:09:51there is definitely a part of that

0:09:52there's like such a different mindset

0:09:54when you're at airports and when you're

0:09:56flying it's like you're a different

0:09:57person

0:09:57any other there is a deliberateness and

0:10:01showing that like I'm a person who's

0:10:03paying attention yeah you want to be

0:10:05sane to do the right thing right I'm in

0:10:07the exit row and I'm not a person that

0:10:09you have to worry about flight attendant

0:10:11I'm a reasonable person I'm not gonna

0:10:12cause any problems here I also realized

0:10:15that a transfer had happened in my mind

0:10:18that when I was a kid and growing up and

0:10:21if I was on an airplane with my parents

0:10:23you know my mom would like we take out

0:10:25the safety card and she look we know

0:10:27let's look at where the exits are let's

0:10:28make sure you recognize visually where

0:10:29the exits are because as she used to

0:10:32always say if you like if this plane is

0:10:33going down my son is going to survive

0:10:36right he's gonna know where the exits

0:10:38are he's gonna get out of this and it's

0:10:40like okay yeah now if the planes going

0:10:41down I'm gonna make sure I'm not one of

0:10:43the people who dies on this plane and

0:10:44then that's also just paying attention

0:10:46to the flight attendants during the

0:10:47safety demonstration but they were

0:10:50always people when I was a kid and I

0:10:55never really thought about it but there

0:10:57has been this very slow very gradual

0:11:00transition over time too

0:11:03the frequency of getting a safety

0:11:05demonstration from an actual human going

0:11:07down and the probability of watching a

0:11:09video going up even on relatively small

0:11:13planes where it's been the longer

0:11:15holdout that there's a person doing the

0:11:17safety demonstration even on the smaller

0:11:19planes now it's very very likely that

0:11:20you're going to be watching an actual

0:11:22video and somehow this transition

0:11:24happened so slowly and gradually that I

0:11:28feel like the respect that I felt I

0:11:30needed to accord a human being

0:11:32transferred to the machine that's just

0:11:35showing me this stupid comedy video

0:11:38that's why the safety videos have

0:11:40bothered me is because I've always felt

0:11:41like I need to watch this out of some

0:11:43kind of respect but I don't think I do

0:11:45anymore

0:11:46especially not if they're going to be

0:11:48propagandizing me with ten thousand

0:11:50viewings of the same unfunny thing I

0:11:52feel like you know what safety video

0:11:53that doesn't have specifics about this

0:11:55airplane anyway I don't need to watch

0:11:57you I don't need to pay attention and I

0:11:59think if the flight attendant is just

0:12:01going to think worse of me because I put

0:12:03my headphones on when I don't want to

0:12:05watch the safety video I think I'm just

0:12:06gonna eat that in terms of social

0:12:08respectability I think that's that's

0:12:10what's gonna happen going forward that

0:12:12observation you makes interesting though

0:12:13isn't it because even when they show

0:12:16safety videos now on most of the planes

0:12:18I've been on the flight attendants will

0:12:20still sort of stand in the corridor and

0:12:22they might wave their arms once or twice

0:12:24in the general direction of an excerpt

0:12:26but they always seem to be sort of

0:12:27standing there unnecessarily

0:12:29maybe that's why they're standing there

0:12:31because they're tapping into that old

0:12:33emotion that if someone's standing there

0:12:35like if they're making the effort you

0:12:37have to make the effort and if they just

0:12:38went about their business and made

0:12:40coffee and sat down and you know checked

0:12:43their hair in the mirror you wouldn't

0:12:44watch the video but because they are

0:12:46standing there and they're making the

0:12:47effort you make the effort

0:12:49it's probably like a rule I bet that

0:12:51they do have to stand there even then

0:12:53the number of things that the flight

0:12:54attendants are actually doing has

0:12:56dramatically decreased oh yeah or maybe

0:12:59the one of their jobs is to make sure

0:13:00people are watching and that's a good

0:13:01place to do it from that's why they

0:13:03stand there they must have to stand

0:13:04there for a reason I mean the reason is

0:13:06not to tell off people with headphones

0:13:07on because they certainly don't then I'm

0:13:10the only sucker sitting there watching

0:13:12the safety video and thinking how God

0:13:14not again don't make me watch the joke

0:13:16about the sea

0:13:17belt one more time they don't tell you

0:13:19off if you're wearing your headphones so

0:13:20I don't know what you're listening to

0:13:21you could be listening to that too yes

0:13:23I'm sure that's what I'm doing as I'm

0:13:25looking at my iPad with my headphones on

0:13:27and clearly writing stuff on the screen

0:13:30oh yes I'm I'm making notes on the

0:13:32safety video that's that's what I'm

0:13:33doing right now I'm certainly not doing

0:13:35my crash notes I do just want to be

0:13:40clear though that even though I am going

0:13:42to pay less attention to the safety

0:13:43videos in the future I reserve the right

0:13:45to complain about safety videos in the

0:13:46future oh yeah reserving the right to

0:13:49complain is like the hello Internet my

0:13:53motto yeah this is the hello Internet

0:13:55subtitle well it sounds like it's time

0:13:57to talk about spy sex then hello

0:14:01Internet

0:14:01if you're someone who bills by the hour

0:14:03you're going to need our neck sponsor

0:14:06freshbooks

0:14:07how much of your life do you lose by

0:14:10completing annoying paperwork in admin

0:14:12tasks what happens when you add that up

0:14:15over a month or a year FreshBooks

0:14:17reckons that you could claw back as many

0:14:19as a hundred and ninety two hours per

0:14:21year by using their ridiculously easy to

0:14:24use cloud accounting software here's how

0:14:28it takes about 30 seconds to create and

0:14:31send a perfectly formatted invoice in

0:14:33literally two clicks with fresh books

0:14:35you can set it up yourself to receive

0:14:36payments online which means no more

0:14:39trips to the ATM to deposit a client's

0:14:42cheque FreshBooks also lets you take

0:14:44pictures of your receipts with your

0:14:45phone to make claiming expenses a

0:14:48million times easier

0:14:49I've sent invoices out with fresh books

0:14:51and let me tell you his way easier than

0:14:54trying to do it yourself that's the kind

0:14:56of task that I just hate it's fiddly and

0:14:59important yet somehow I can't quite get

0:15:02my brain to focus on it fully

0:15:04I'm sure if you send out invoices you

0:15:06know that feeling like it's the most

0:15:08important thing that you can do but it's

0:15:09also just a task that you kind of never

0:15:12want to do fresh books just makes it

0:15:14easier and helps you get paid as fast as

0:15:17possible so take back your 192 hours a

0:15:21year that's 16 hours a month by using

0:15:25fresh books to try fresh books for an

0:15:27unrestricted 30-day free trial goat

0:15:30to FreshBooks calm /hello and enter

0:15:33hello in the how did you hear about a

0:15:35section that's fresh books calm slash

0:15:38hello and enter hello in the how did you

0:15:41hear about a section thanks to fresh

0:15:43books for supporting the show and for

0:15:45saving freelancers so much time I'm so

0:15:49not looking forward to this

0:15:50why not breathing because although I

0:15:53will battle on and will not cave to the

0:15:56cheer pressure mm-hmm I know I'm gonna

0:15:58get okay you know you're waiting in to a

0:16:00forest of to your pressure I know how

0:16:02people feel about SpaceX and they're

0:16:03starting to not like if I say anything

0:16:06negative more than they used to so just

0:16:09to put it in context at the time of

0:16:11recording it's just a day actually I

0:16:13think since SpaceX had this historic

0:16:16historic moment for the company where

0:16:19they did their first launch of the

0:16:21so-called Falcon Heavy which is the more

0:16:24powerful rocket which can throw things

0:16:26further out into space and it's a big

0:16:28milestone in the efforts to you know get

0:16:31to Mars because you're going to need

0:16:32these bigger rockets to get beyond Earth

0:16:34orbit yeah my understanding is that this

0:16:36is like a cargo rocket that's the idea

0:16:38of it is it's it's for transporting a

0:16:41non-trivial amount of stuff into space

0:16:43yeah I imagine it what can also probably

0:16:45transport manned craft I don't know

0:16:49where exactly where that's heading but

0:16:50what they had in at this time of course

0:16:51was this Tesla Roadster car which

0:16:54resulted in quite a substantial amount

0:16:56of publicity they used Elon Musk's red

0:16:59car with a mannequin astronaut at the

0:17:01wheel as like their test payload mm-hmm

0:17:04and it was all very successful so how am

0:17:07I gonna do this gray do I get my gripes

0:17:09out the way first or do i do them last

0:17:11or do we go chronological or oh I wasn't

0:17:14going to watch this live I was aware it

0:17:17was happening because of Twitter but I

0:17:18was not paying much attention and I

0:17:20actually got a phone call from Duke of

0:17:23Venezuela and he said are you watching

0:17:26are you gonna watch it so I said alright

0:17:27I'll watch oh and I watched him he

0:17:30didn't call me no I totally missed out

0:17:32on this because I was busy watching a

0:17:33chick flick at the time I really didn't

0:17:35have any idea well I was in the bath

0:17:38when he code so I can top that

0:17:42by anyway so I watched up I watched the

0:17:45livestream along with all the other

0:17:48SpaceX diehards and the rest of the

0:17:50world and so I'm willing to talk about

0:17:52on hello Internet if you were because

0:17:54you have watched as well now gray at my

0:17:56request haven't you but lately it's been

0:17:58a very busy week but yes you sent me the

0:18:00video you told me the relevant sections

0:18:03to watch and so I I have seen the the

0:18:06take off to reveal and the landing part

0:18:10of the of the launch mera yet so let me

0:18:14say when people criticize things that

0:18:15doesn't mean they don't necessarily like

0:18:17it gray and I criticize Star Wars all

0:18:19day long but where Star Wars fans mm-hmm

0:18:22so just because I say negative things

0:18:24you know that just happens you know

0:18:26that's just part of being a critic right

0:18:30which is what we sometimes do but my

0:18:33overall feeling watching the launch was

0:18:36one of very great excitement more than I

0:18:40would have expected partly maybe because

0:18:42it was live and I knew you know

0:18:43something could go wrong and I felt

0:18:45myself really really hoping nothing

0:18:46would go wrong mm-hmm

0:18:48which is you know nice in itself and

0:18:50also for the first time I was sort of

0:18:54thinking do you know what we might

0:18:56actually go like to Mars and stuff while

0:18:58I'm still alive that's a very exciting

0:19:01feeling mm-hmm so I was very excited by

0:19:05it I thought it it looked fantastic

0:19:07they're getting so good at covering

0:19:09these things now and coverage has

0:19:10improved so much that of course it's

0:19:12gonna look fantastic but you know the

0:19:14shots were good and the tracking shots

0:19:15were good the landing of the two

0:19:18boosters when they came back down like

0:19:20in sync and landed was remarkable I

0:19:22don't think that will ever get old the

0:19:24sight of those boosters landing like a

0:19:26couple of newborn giraffes trying to

0:19:28walk on ice and you think surely those

0:19:30things are gonna fall over and they

0:19:32stuck it which was amazing I know the

0:19:33one out to sea had a big smash and

0:19:36didn't land properly but I think that is

0:19:38a fantastic looking thing and I think

0:19:40that's becoming the new kind of iconic

0:19:41image of launchers like in the days of

0:19:44Saturn the iconic shot was always you

0:19:46know that one with us like a camera on

0:19:47the on the gantry and you're really

0:19:50close to the rocket and you'd always see

0:19:51the fire and the ice falling off and

0:19:53you'd see us a go past I know the exact

0:19:55shot

0:19:55you're talking about that is that that

0:19:57is the iconic we're flying in a space

0:19:59yeah funnily enough I think the iconic

0:20:02shot now is those are those boosters

0:20:03landing which is funny because it's not

0:20:05the launch but I agree that that is

0:20:07really impressive and it's way more

0:20:11impressive than the launch yeah I found

0:20:15watching the launch much more

0:20:17interesting than I expected

0:20:20it's one of those things where I don't

0:20:21really have any sense of scale like I

0:20:23don't actually understand what is the

0:20:26size of this compared to like a Saturn 5

0:20:28rocket I don't understand but on the

0:20:31video it just looks huge and it looks

0:20:33powerful with all of those boosters it

0:20:36should look like a hell of a thing

0:20:37taking off but I would say watching the

0:20:40two boosters then return to Earth and

0:20:43land vertically simultaneously I mean it

0:20:46literally gave me chills I thought like

0:20:48that is just such a crazy technological

0:20:53achievement that it's it's just

0:20:55impossible to fathom

0:20:57obviously the launch of the payload is

0:21:01the part that really matters here but

0:21:03the booster landing is incredible and

0:21:06it's it's a thing that in our previous

0:21:09conversations about SpaceX I feel like I

0:21:11didn't really understand at that point

0:21:12in time and this one was like wow that

0:21:14is amazing to see I don't get all

0:21:16excited about it because I think oh wow

0:21:18this is gonna make space travel cheaper

0:21:19like that's just boring accounting the

0:21:22thing that about it that I'm amazed by

0:21:24is just how awesome it looks like it

0:21:25just looks like made up so good on them

0:21:28but just one last thing about the launch

0:21:30and the coverage of the launch that I

0:21:32watched and this is where I will upset

0:21:35some people

0:21:35the editorial decision that was made to

0:21:39give so much prominence to the cheering

0:21:42and hollering of the SpaceX employees

0:21:47who were watching this happen which made

0:21:49it feel more like a sporting event than

0:21:52a scientific moment or an engineering

0:21:54moment and I'm not opposed to them

0:21:55getting excited and cheering and like a

0:21:58lot of people said to me ah it added to

0:22:01the drama and I think a little bit of it

0:22:03maybe would have added to the drama

0:22:05cutting to them occasionally or showing

0:22:06them but I thought it was

0:22:09too much for me it was laid on too thick

0:22:11they were carrying on like a bunch of

0:22:13frat boys and from the shots they showed

0:22:15they were mainly boys so I don't feel

0:22:17bad saying that they were carrying on

0:22:19like pork chops at one point I heard

0:22:22them go spook spook spooks like they

0:22:26were superbowl people drinking from a

0:22:29keg before the game for me it was like

0:22:32it trampled all over the moment and it

0:22:35wasn't like a bit of like controlled

0:22:37excitement where the cool heads of the

0:22:39of the engineers were saying come on

0:22:41everyone let's come down I know you're

0:22:42excited but this is like this is serious

0:22:44business here

0:22:44it was just like hollering and whooping

0:22:47and no I thought it was too much and it

0:22:50was an editorial decision because they

0:22:52deliberately injected it all the way

0:22:54through and they were cheering for every

0:22:56single step that happened which you know

0:22:57because they're engineers I get that

0:22:59they're excited and each step was

0:23:00another milestone for them okay we've

0:23:02now gone to full electronic control

0:23:04inside the rocket like come on man this

0:23:10is like this is undignified

0:23:12you're such a party pooper I'm not

0:23:18objecting to their excitement and a

0:23:20little bit of it it was very American

0:23:22and it trampled all over the moment for

0:23:25me and I know how much that upsets

0:23:27people because it's all about the

0:23:28employees and they had their names

0:23:30written on the on the rocket and they're

0:23:32the heroes of the day but I don't think

0:23:34it was done with a very good Sensibility

0:23:36I also would love to know where their

0:23:40contingency was if the rocket had blown

0:23:42up like were they going to cut that fade

0:23:44or were they still going to show those

0:23:45people then fall in a heap I'd love to

0:23:47know what the plan was but we'll never

0:23:49know because thankfully it didn't blow

0:23:51up yes thankfully it didn't blow up

0:23:52Brady you like space exploration much

0:23:55better when it's boring guys and ties in

0:23:58Houston not finding a proxy nuclear war

0:24:01with the Soviet Union oh well I mean

0:24:05obviously I'm a real fan of it but like

0:24:07I love the dignity of then they were

0:24:10bottling it up because they knew they

0:24:11had a job to do and when they got

0:24:13excited they be told hang on don't be

0:24:15excited there's more to come come on

0:24:16well we're professionals we're

0:24:18scientists were engineers we know the

0:24:19risks here and I know these people

0:24:21weren't like on shift

0:24:22I was gonna say I don't think this was

0:24:24like the people in the night crew yeah

0:24:27bunch of people who were standing around

0:24:29like it looked like engineers who had

0:24:31worked on the thing yeah and and it's

0:24:33great that they were made so much a part

0:24:34of it I just thought I don't know they

0:24:37were turned up to lay out they was laid

0:24:39on too thick and it was a bit like can

0:24:41everyone just shut up for a minute I'm

0:24:42trying to hear what's going on and like

0:24:44I don't think they got the balance right

0:24:46of that part of the broadcast and here

0:24:48we're just talking about cosmetics of

0:24:49course this is just the broadcast this

0:24:51has got nothing to do with the

0:24:53accomplishment or the fate and yes I

0:24:55know they're happy and I know they're

0:24:57proud and I know they're responsible and

0:24:58I know all that stuff but I'm not the

0:25:01only one who thought that by the way

0:25:02what did you think you watched it what

0:25:04did you think I'm laughing because I had

0:25:06a bit of a different reaction I was

0:25:07aware that there was a ton of cheering

0:25:10and that's obviously like an editorial

0:25:12decision

0:25:12I didn't mind because I do think it

0:25:15makes it more exciting to watch than if

0:25:18they just had the audio feed from

0:25:20Mission Control and you were hearing the

0:25:22the people who were actually working

0:25:23just saying whatever they need to say

0:25:26sort of like when we when we've

0:25:28discussed the audio logs from plane

0:25:30crashes I'm always struck by how

0:25:34professional those recordings are and

0:25:36how calm the pilots are under

0:25:40circumstances where I would be screaming

0:25:42and they're just like we're reporting

0:25:44the second engine is out on the

0:25:45right-hand side it's like oh my god dude

0:25:49but that's what you need when it's a

0:25:51professional environment right I want a

0:25:52playlist who's able to just do that

0:25:54because it is like keep it together man

0:25:56I'm fine with the yelling in the

0:25:59excitement because part of what SpaceX

0:26:02is doing here is almost like a

0:26:03recruitment video for like future

0:26:05engineers for working at SpaceX like you

0:26:07want a thing that's exciting so I

0:26:09totally get that at one point they had

0:26:11two commentators who just start talking

0:26:13and then for me that's where am I think

0:26:15like stop talking comment are you

0:26:16talking over the thing like I don't want

0:26:18to hear it whatever user just show me

0:26:19the feet I can see it on the screen I

0:26:22don't need to talking heads telling me

0:26:24that I'm looking at a rocket going into

0:26:26space like obviously they turned it into

0:26:28a sports coverage I have the hollering

0:26:30you know frat boys they've got the

0:26:32glitzy good-looking young commentators

0:26:35who are sitting there at the day

0:26:36giving us some punditry and filling time

0:26:38and that they're turning until uh yeah

0:26:40it's the Superbowl of space the thing

0:26:42that it made me think of it's like this

0:26:45is an old rage comic which I wonder if

0:26:46anybody can find on the internet it's

0:26:48forever old but it always made me laugh

0:26:49so hard and it was a comic that somebody

0:26:51made when the Royal Wedding happened

0:26:53years ago and it shows that like a guy

0:26:55who's sitting at home who doesn't really

0:26:57care about the Royal Wedding and he just

0:26:58turns it on and he's watching it he

0:27:00starts getting more and more into the

0:27:01Royal Wedding

0:27:02and then Katie Couric is doing the

0:27:04narration about what's happening on the

0:27:06wedding and like the caption has like

0:27:07shut the fuck up Katie Couric I just

0:27:09want to watch as pretty princess getting

0:27:10married that was kind of my feeling with

0:27:12the space launch is like when the two

0:27:13commentators start talking is like shut

0:27:15the fuck up I just want to watch the

0:27:16rocket I don't really want to hear your

0:27:18comments on this so that's where it

0:27:20bothered me more is like the words but

0:27:22the cheering I don't know personally I

0:27:24can see why some people might think it

0:27:27was a bit much because it was a lot but

0:27:31the cheering I was okay with I think it

0:27:34made it more exciting to watch so I

0:27:35can't get with you on this one I would

0:27:38have cut to the cheering mm-hmm as it

0:27:40lifted off the pad mm-hmm but all the

0:27:42other cheering throughout the whole

0:27:44process from like three or four minutes

0:27:46before to five minutes after it just

0:27:49been little de Anna you know what it did

0:27:52make it more exciting

0:27:53but open-heart surgery would be more

0:27:55exciting if you had a thousand people

0:27:56cheering as it happened it doesn't mean

0:27:58it's like appropriate that's not what

0:28:00was really going on the people who are

0:28:01making this happened well I just I don't

0:28:04know I like the image in my head of

0:28:06broadcaster Brady who's managing all the

0:28:08live streams for SpaceX and the Rockets

0:28:11going up you have your hand on the dial

0:28:13for how much crowd cheering we can hear

0:28:15and you turn it up as the rocket goes up

0:28:17you give it a second dip and then Brady

0:28:19turns it down that's enough of that

0:28:22people just turns it and I would have

0:28:23had okay now's a good time cut to the

0:28:25frat boys let's see them jumping up and

0:28:27down give them a few seconds well

0:28:30include er include them as part of it

0:28:32but it just overwhelmed it anyway

0:28:34obviously obviously I'm in the minority

0:28:36here and so be it let's get to the

0:28:39business of the car in space okay all

0:28:42right so to the final stage we had

0:28:45bolted this Tesla Roadster

0:28:48which I didn't realize of course I

0:28:50should have realized cuz of course it

0:28:51always has to be this way was going to

0:28:52like do some laps of the earth before it

0:28:54got flung out into the far reaches of

0:28:57the solar system mm-hmm and I have a few

0:28:59thoughts about it but the first thing I

0:29:01have to say is I was not prepared for

0:29:06how awesome it would look like when they

0:29:09started cutting to those shots and you

0:29:10had the live stream of it and like the

0:29:12thing was just slowly rotating and the

0:29:14earth was just like creeping into shock

0:29:17behind

0:29:17spaceman star man in the red car it was

0:29:20like I couldn't stop looking at it and I

0:29:23was like like I had to show people I

0:29:26would like say to my wife oh my goodness

0:29:27you just have to look at this and I'd be

0:29:29watching her and she'd be like yeah okay

0:29:30I've seen it but like I found it

0:29:32completely hypnotic artistically it was

0:29:36like it looked impressive yeah I'll

0:29:39completely agree with you there this is

0:29:41how I was aware the event occurred

0:29:42because when I was done watching my

0:29:45chick flick and I've turned on Twitter

0:29:46realize like what are all these pictures

0:29:48is from space of this car like I had a

0:29:51weird experience of the pictures look so

0:29:55in some sense so strange like I had a

0:29:58very hard time understanding out of

0:30:00context what is this actually a

0:30:02photograph of and so I had to do a

0:30:04little bit of digging around about like

0:30:05what does this situation actually look

0:30:08like not just from the the camera that's

0:30:10on the the front of this car like what

0:30:13is what is the actual situation that I'm

0:30:15looking at but the pictures themselves

0:30:17they're very impressive but there's

0:30:20almost like sort of like the Maryland

0:30:22point where a photo can become so

0:30:24impressive it becomes unreal looking

0:30:26like I have a hard time looking at those

0:30:29photos and thinking of them as real even

0:30:32though I know they are it's just like

0:30:34I'm looking at a car floating above the

0:30:36earth my brain does not process this as

0:30:38a real image it looks very strange so

0:30:41should they have sent a car to space or

0:30:43not yeah of course why not

0:30:46what can be the reason to not do well

0:30:48here's what I think about it it looked

0:30:52amazing as like an artistic project as a

0:30:55piece of art I think that warrants it

0:30:58like it just you know sometimes you have

0:30:59to do something

0:31:00I mean musk himself

0:31:01sometimes you just have to do something

0:31:03because it's fun and a bit crazy hmm

0:31:05and I think that completely justifies it

0:31:06and I think you know and whether or not

0:31:08they sent up sculpture or a bright red

0:31:12car with the with an astronaut the wheel

0:31:14which was a bit more funny or whatever

0:31:16they decided to send up okay they they

0:31:18decided to make it an artistic project

0:31:20the main argument that burns on the

0:31:23internet about this was if they're going

0:31:24to spend all that money could they have

0:31:26used a payload that had a bit more

0:31:27scientific value like they didn't want

0:31:29to risk some billion-dollar satellite

0:31:30but could they have sent something up

0:31:32that was like more useful and that's

0:31:34like you know I think your position

0:31:36that's clear from your noise I

0:31:38understand the reason why people want to

0:31:40go down that road

0:31:41yeah but they that road never ends okay

0:31:45well you could always in theory spend

0:31:48more money in a more practical way

0:31:51there's a never a time that is not true

0:31:55that argument on its own I find never

0:31:59convincing oh this money could have been

0:32:01spent in a more effective way of course

0:32:03all money that could be true so I just

0:32:07don't find that interesting I agree with

0:32:09you and I think doing something artistic

0:32:11and fun is good mm-hmm

0:32:13here's the one problem I have with it

0:32:15though and that is the muddy water that

0:32:19is created by the commercial aspect of

0:32:23it because ela must run SpaceX and he's

0:32:26got grand plans for it he also runs

0:32:28Tesla which is you know losing a bit of

0:32:31money at the moment and they're trying

0:32:32to make a successful business out of it

0:32:33this was fantastic publicity and

0:32:35promotion for the Tesla company and I

0:32:39think that's where it starts getting a

0:32:41bit blurrier between doing something for

0:32:43fun and something artistic that just

0:32:45tickled the world and inspired people

0:32:46which is what it did without question

0:32:49it's a very inspiring thing to do and a

0:32:51very viral thing to do and in fairness

0:32:54to Tesla and Elon Musk I do think they

0:32:56showed restraint you know they didn't

0:32:58have big bright Tesla signs everywhere

0:33:00and make it look too commercial I think

0:33:02they showed a lot of dignity in that

0:33:04respect the dashboard said don't panic

0:33:06it didn't say for 25 percent off your

0:33:10next Tesla offer code spaceman right at

0:33:12your local dealer right looks like

0:33:14that's not what they did

0:33:15so yeah there was not an overabundance

0:33:18of commercial this year exactly they did

0:33:20show restraint but I do think it is

0:33:22still a little bit muddy

0:33:24I mean he's you know they're paying for

0:33:26it themselves it's not I don't know how

0:33:27much taxpayer money went into this whole

0:33:29thing I don't know if they you know are

0:33:31paying the normal rates for the use of

0:33:33the NASA facilities or not but you know

0:33:35they're paying for it so to some extent

0:33:37I'm completely on board with them doing

0:33:39what they want with their rocket but you

0:33:41do know I worry about the

0:33:42commercialization of space and coca-cola

0:33:44billboards and things like that and this

0:33:46still was a little bit promotional and I

0:33:48think that's what left me with a little

0:33:50bit of unease about it like you can't

0:33:53just say ah I did this for fun because I

0:33:55thought it would be funny and I just

0:33:56needed some weight there's certainly a

0:33:58marketing and promotional agenda at play

0:34:02here that is legitimate and no one's

0:34:05breaking any rules or anything but it

0:34:06just feels a bit like okay yeah I

0:34:10selling a few cars while you're there

0:34:11are you mate okay so yeah I feel like I

0:34:14I don't understand the parameters of

0:34:16what you mean by muddied the only

0:34:19comparison I could think of here is like

0:34:20Steve Jobs being so involved in Pixar

0:34:23and Apple and so then you had like cross

0:34:26promotion between those companies but I

0:34:29feel like at least from what I have read

0:34:32about the greater musk Empire like the

0:34:36Solar City Tesla and SpaceX are

0:34:38companies that are sharing a lot of

0:34:40technology between them yeah so there's

0:34:43something to me that I just I do not

0:34:45think that these companies are as

0:34:47separate as normal companies would be so

0:34:51I guess I'm just I'm not quite

0:34:54understanding what you're saying money

0:34:56people complaining about a lack of

0:34:57quarantining between his different

0:34:59business is it more like the humanity

0:35:01star it's just the fact that there's

0:35:03like a tesla going around earth I feel

0:35:05like this was like a big milestone for

0:35:07space exploration certainly that's how

0:35:10it's been pitched and having a carrot

0:35:13virtus man bolted to the front of it

0:35:15feels like cheapening it a bit and by

0:35:19the way I'm also well aware that I wear

0:35:21an amiga watch that was the one they

0:35:23wore on the moon and all the marketing

0:35:24involved with it as well say like I'm

0:35:26aware this goes back to the days of NASA

0:35:28too

0:35:29right this was a bit more overt

0:35:30obviously a bright red car with a

0:35:32mannequin at the steering wheel rather

0:35:34than oh we need a watch who are we gonna

0:35:35get out what just from it's certainly

0:35:37easier to spot on the live stream than

0:35:39the bridge I've watched the astronauts

0:35:41are wearing when they landed on the moon

0:35:42yes that's for sure it just felt

0:35:44promotional it's a bit like did you have

0:35:46to try and flog your cars at the same

0:35:47time too

0:35:49don't get me wrong I like the whimsy of

0:35:51it and like the fun of it and I'm

0:35:53totally on board with that and it

0:35:55totally worked on me it totally worked

0:35:57on me but at the same time I was

0:35:59thinking I yep pocketing a few extra

0:36:01bucks there Hey

0:36:01yeah let's push the business it's like

0:36:04if you know when if Neil Armstrong and

0:36:05Buzz Aldrin went to the moon and they

0:36:07stuck a flag in the soil and it had the

0:36:09General Motors logo on it instead of

0:36:10America because General Motors had paid

0:36:12them you know five hundred million you'd

0:36:15be thinking man that was a pretty

0:36:17historic moment to be vlogging cars I

0:36:20think that there is something

0:36:21interesting about your thoughts here

0:36:24that I can't quite grasp why I don't

0:36:28agree with you on this and I think like

0:36:32so the General Motors one is an

0:36:33interesting comparison and it's like I

0:36:35agree under that circumstance if they

0:36:36got out and they put a GM flag on the

0:36:38moon because GM sponsored the NASA space

0:36:41flight it would feel like oh that's sad

0:36:44but I wouldn't feel that way if in an

0:36:47alternate universe of history the United

0:36:50States government wasn't actually the

0:36:52primary mover and the primary mover was

0:36:55GE like an n GE was the entity that was

0:36:59doing the space exploration in a much

0:37:02more direct way I guess this is partly

0:37:04like I don't really care what the entity

0:37:07is and in some ways like when NASA does

0:37:11a thing they're selling the idea that

0:37:14America has nuclear superiority during

0:37:17the Cold War and when SpaceX is doing a

0:37:21thing they are selling the idea of

0:37:24increased cargo capacity to space I

0:37:26don't see those things as wildly

0:37:29different I'll tell you where the

0:37:32problem comes from and I know there's a

0:37:33difference here between a businessman

0:37:36and a commercial entity and for example

0:37:38say governments and politicians right

0:37:41but people have a resist

0:37:43well some people have a resistance to

0:37:45people in positions of great power and

0:37:47authority using that to give themselves

0:37:50even more and the best example I could

0:37:52think of was say you elected a leader of

0:37:55a country you know you elected someone

0:37:57your president or prime minister and

0:37:59they happen to own a bunch of hotels or

0:38:02golf courses or something like that and

0:38:04when they became leader they started

0:38:07using all their facilities and their

0:38:09commercial interests in the duties of

0:38:12their political office you'd start to

0:38:15think hang on you're using that to your

0:38:16advantage to feather your own nest and

0:38:18like you shouldn't be leveraging that

0:38:20position of power yeah and I taught I

0:38:22totally agree with you that right like

0:38:24that's also a case but that seems much

0:38:25more like a like a conflict of interest

0:38:27yeah between the role of a civil servant

0:38:30and the role of a businessperson I said

0:38:32at the start I say a difference but he

0:38:34is leveraging a position of great brute

0:38:37force and power financial power and you

0:38:40know privilege and collaboration with

0:38:42the government and things that help

0:38:43SpaceX like the SpaceX has a lot of

0:38:45government contracts so he's like he's

0:38:47got into this position of great power

0:38:48and great influence and then bolting his

0:38:52car from his other company on the front

0:38:54while he's at it

0:38:55fear was in this in a similar vein it's

0:38:58not the same but it feels in a similar

0:39:00vein it's like okay so you've built this

0:39:02rocket company and you're getting all

0:39:03these government contracts and you're

0:39:05like you're launching from a NASA

0:39:07facility and that and while you're there

0:39:09you're thinking oh let's Chuck a Tesla

0:39:12on the front as well because that will

0:39:14help my other business it's not the same

0:39:16mm-hmm I don't think he's done anything

0:39:17well I'm sure he hasn't done anything

0:39:19improper he wouldn't have been allowed

0:39:21to do it but it just has that feeling to

0:39:23it of I came I that's enough enough what

0:39:27else do you want to sell while you're at

0:39:28it hmm

0:39:29that's just a little feeling in the back

0:39:30of the head about it I did think it was

0:39:31cold though I did love it I did love it

0:39:33okay here's a question for you if we

0:39:36could go back in time and you're able to

0:39:38make the decision about what the payload

0:39:40should be would you change it would you

0:39:43say I think it would be better if it's

0:39:46not a Tesla if it's a different payload

0:39:48you know if the decision was totally

0:39:50down to you what's happening is like

0:39:51Elon Musk has brought you on and an

0:39:53advisor and he's saying I may have lost

0:39:55perspective on this

0:39:56you Brady we all know from the podcast

0:39:58yeah you're hugely influential podcast

0:40:01that you are the number one fan of space

0:40:03what do you think we should do yeah I

0:40:04would say to him I think this is a good

0:40:07idea I think the visual of a cool sports

0:40:09car with an astronaut at the wheel will

0:40:12really capture people's imaginations but

0:40:15I think I mean he's in an impossible

0:40:17position that if you're gonna use a car

0:40:18cause he owns a car company but I would

0:40:20say to him is there something else that

0:40:22would have equal impact and be equally

0:40:25clever and funny that hasn't got such a

0:40:27direct attachment to you a because of

0:40:31the commercial appearance of it and

0:40:33because of maybe the slightly

0:40:35egotistical appearance of it I'd say to

0:40:37him I love the idea I probably wouldn't

0:40:41have said to him I love the idea because

0:40:42I was wrong I didn't realize how cold it

0:40:44would look but now that I do realize how

0:40:46cool yet in this scenario you are both

0:40:48future Brady who knows how it works and

0:40:49Asprey who's doing the advice right so

0:40:52my my advice with all this knowledge of

0:40:54hindsight would be brilliant idea it's

0:40:56gonna really capture people but do it in

0:40:59a way that makes you look a bit less

0:41:02egotistical in a way that looks less

0:41:05like you're trying to do something

0:41:07commercial is this something else is

0:41:09there another way we could do it and

0:41:11achieve all the same good things without

0:41:13that kind of akina's to it I don't know

0:41:16if I'd have that idea but that's what I

0:41:18say they're just listening to that all I

0:41:19can imagine is if I was the CEO of

0:41:21company and you were my advisor there

0:41:22I'd be coming like okay great but I'm

0:41:25really busy what is your suggestion if

0:41:26you don't have another suggestion we're

0:41:28going with this well I'd say can I have

0:41:30more than the 30 seconds that gray just

0:41:32gave me okay you can have until the next

0:41:33episode of hello internet that's how

0:41:35much time you I don't astok and that

0:41:38achiness like just to put things in the

0:41:41right context that achiness is less than

0:41:42how fantastic I thought it was like on

0:41:45the cosmic scales of this there is no

0:41:48doubt that launching a Tesla into space

0:41:52means that way more people watch this

0:41:56launch than ever would have yes I'm not

0:41:59convinced that this actually sells a lot

0:42:02of Tesla's but it's sure like I can

0:42:05guarantee that there's like increased

0:42:07the viewership of the livestream

0:42:1050% 60% I bet it is some enormous amount

0:42:15this is a concrete load because it just

0:42:18makes it such a thing and the subsequent

0:42:20coverage yeah I bet you're a hassle cars

0:42:22I know people that are looking at the

0:42:23cars now as a result and then also just

0:42:25increases like the brand awareness so

0:42:27which is also probably what the chief

0:42:29executive would have laughed me out of

0:42:30in the office when I went in there with

0:42:31mine is not a commercial Hey are you

0:42:34worried let's you work at a company

0:42:35you're in the wrong place but yeah the

0:42:38the showmanship of it was very good do

0:42:42you want to hear my idea okay what's

0:42:43your idea if we're gonna be a key in

0:42:45about money what do you think of this

0:42:46you know how I had that screen on it

0:42:48that said don't panic the display on the

0:42:50screen I'm assuming that wasn't actually

0:42:52being displayed on the screen and it was

0:42:54stuck on permanently like I don't know

0:42:57the answer to that but my address' is

0:42:58that that's like a piece of cardboard or

0:43:00something stuck on there with don't

0:43:01panic written on her but either way

0:43:03right if it is a functioning screen if

0:43:06they had some capability to change what

0:43:11was written on the screen and every

0:43:13second they could put another name on

0:43:14there CGP grey Brady Haran dirt from

0:43:19various table I'm Jane Smith Cyndi

0:43:23Lauper are cycling every second with the

0:43:26earth and the background that everything

0:43:27and a camera capturing it all and you

0:43:30could buy your name on that screen for a

0:43:32hundred bucks and you could screen grab

0:43:35the moment your name was on the screen

0:43:36in the car with the astronaut and the

0:43:37earth behind how many do Rick and they

0:43:40would have sold a million I mean they

0:43:43tell they'd sell a lot obviously you'd

0:43:45need an auction for that Brady you

0:43:46couldn't just have a flat price for that

0:43:48let's just say it's a hundred bucks H

0:43:49and they sold a million that make a

0:43:52hundred million bucks like this now it

0:43:56totally trips my like that's

0:43:57disgustingly commercial for you okay

0:44:00it's good to know where your line is

0:44:02yeah that's why I find this conversation

0:44:04interesting because it never really

0:44:05crossed my mind about the commercial

0:44:07nature of it and I feel like I don't

0:44:08feel that for this at all I think it's

0:44:10just cool but then it's like oh but if

0:44:12you are auctioning screen time with like

0:44:14now that cross was my boundary now it's

0:44:17too much that's completely what they did

0:44:18it's the only difference is they didn't

0:44:20auction it he just took it for himself

0:44:21with his car

0:44:23and gave himself all the screen time

0:44:24gave his Carol the screen time it's

0:44:26exactly what happened yeah I don't know

0:44:27it just feels different this is what

0:44:32makes life interesting is it's

0:44:33fundamentally impossible to be perfectly

0:44:36consistent on all things like that way

0:44:37lies madness and in lots of these

0:44:40conversations you just have to think

0:44:41like why do I think that or like why

0:44:43does this feel different and sometimes

0:44:45there really isn't any answer I mean

0:44:47it's also my professional upbringing

0:44:48coming out here and I am aware of that I

0:44:50mean I worked for the BBC for a long

0:44:51time and the BBC is very sensitive to

0:44:53people exploiting its power for

0:44:56commercial purposes so if someone calls

0:44:58you up at the BBC as a journalist says

0:45:00I've got a great idea for a story it's

0:45:01about a new car I've made do you want to

0:45:04come and make a film about it you very

0:45:06quickly have to make editorial judgments

0:45:09versus commercial judgments and is this

0:45:11person just trying to use the power of

0:45:12the BBC to sell cars is this a

0:45:14legitimate story so I do have a very

0:45:16sensitive radar to this so I guess when

0:45:19I see it happening in the world and I

0:45:21see people using spotlights to sell

0:45:24things which is a perfectly fair thing

0:45:27to do and a very American thing to do

0:45:28I'm perhaps more sensitive to it and I

0:45:31think our you know everyone wants to

0:45:34make a buck any bit of spot light or

0:45:36camera time as a chance to make a buck I

0:45:38feel like this is the perfect time for a

0:45:41commercial break this episode of Hello

0:45:43Internet has been brought to you by

0:45:44fracture

0:45:46now fractures this company you must know

0:45:48them by now where they will print your

0:45:49pictures on two bits of glass that you

0:45:53then hang on the wall they're ready to

0:45:54hang right out of the box this is the

0:45:57easiest thing in the world

0:45:58upload a picture to a website make a few

0:46:00little decisions press a button then in

0:46:03the post comes your box open the box

0:46:04bang on the wall before you know it

0:46:06fracture prints make thoughtful unique

0:46:09gifts whether for yourself or for

0:46:11someone else it's become one of my go to

0:46:13places whenever I have to give someone a

0:46:15present because who doesn't like

0:46:17receiving a picture it's something you

0:46:18can easily personalize it's always a

0:46:20thoughtful gift but it's always

0:46:22something that's really useful to

0:46:23everyone has room for more pictures in

0:46:25their house fractures are handmade in

0:46:27the Gainesville Florida

0:46:30frat tree from US sourced materials and

0:46:33these are sleek frameless designs and

0:46:35because they haven't got

0:46:36frame they'll go with pretty much any

0:46:37day core now obviously a real use for

0:46:39fracture is photos these days we take so

0:46:42many photos on our phones and other

0:46:43devices that never really see the light

0:46:45of day here's a chance to get your

0:46:47absolute best pictures the ones that

0:46:50usually are on your reserve for things

0:46:51like Instagram and actually have them on

0:46:53permanent display forever but one of my

0:46:56favorite use is a fracture and a thing I

0:46:58do a lot is actually upload pictures

0:47:00that aren't photos but maybe scans of

0:47:03like important documents like like a

0:47:06degree certificate or something like

0:47:07that

0:47:08that you can give to someone else they

0:47:09can have on their wall or most recently

0:47:12I actually had a friend create bit of a

0:47:14work of art and they've got the original

0:47:16but they sent me a really really lovely

0:47:18high-res version of it that I'd like to

0:47:20have on the wall so what I'm doing is

0:47:22getting a fractured and I'll have my own

0:47:24brilliant copy already on a piece of

0:47:26glass or maybe get pictures from other

0:47:28sources for example NASA have loads of

0:47:30amazing Spacey pictures that are out

0:47:33there high-resolution in the public

0:47:34domain and if there's a real cracker why

0:47:37don't you get that put on a piece of

0:47:38glass and put up on the wall I remember

0:47:40years ago you used to pay a fortune for

0:47:42all these high quality pictures of

0:47:43galaxies or the moon or space

0:47:45exploration now you can have an awesome

0:47:47one on the wall at a super low price

0:47:49even lower if you go to fracture dot me

0:47:53and use the offer code

0:47:56hello fifteen when you check out that's

0:47:59going to give you fifteen percent off

0:48:02your first fracture order go to fracture

0:48:05dot me and then use the offer code hello

0:48:09fifteen and if you get the one question

0:48:12survey about podcasts make sure you pick

0:48:14hello Internet so they know you came

0:48:16from here our thanks to fracture for

0:48:18supporting this podcast and my personal

0:48:20thanks to fracture for getting me out of

0:48:22a few jams when it comes time for buying

0:48:24presents but but it's not over yet with

0:48:27SpaceX there's one last thing that Brady

0:48:31wants to talk about with this and what

0:48:32is that Brady well I have been unable to

0:48:35get the answer to this definitively and

0:48:37I think it's because basics are

0:48:39deliberately being obscure about it

0:48:42obviously the car was bolted on to the

0:48:45stage of the rocket it had to be be

0:48:48when it was going around the earth it

0:48:49still had to do another big blast off to

0:48:51start it's huge or but through the solar

0:48:54system out towards the asteroid belt but

0:48:57obviously all the camera angles were

0:48:59quite artfully cropped so that we never

0:49:01actually saw any part of like that stage

0:49:04really did we most of the angles the

0:49:06idea was to make it look like the car

0:49:07was on his own because that was a better

0:49:09shot and I'm alright with that you know

0:49:11that's just prettiness and now obviously

0:49:14it's done it's big burn and it's going

0:49:16out now towards the orbit of Mars and

0:49:18beyond as it starts this eternal loop

0:49:20around the solar system it hasn't been

0:49:23made entirely clear to me whether or not

0:49:25the car has been separated from the

0:49:28rocket after the rocket burn happened I

0:49:30suspect it hasn't been although if you

0:49:32look at the official Tesla animation of

0:49:34this whole thing the car is drifting on

0:49:37its own out towards Mars because that's

0:49:39like a beautiful thought isn't it that

0:49:40the cars driving on its own with David

0:49:43Bowie playing and things like that I

0:49:45don't know I don't know the answer yet

0:49:46it's interesting comparing how SpaceX

0:49:49treats this stuff compared to NASA I

0:49:52mean NASA drowns you in detail and tells

0:49:55you every single little thing that's

0:49:56happening to the point that it's almost

0:49:58overwhelming and too much detail and

0:50:00SpaceX of obviously are coming at it a

0:50:02lot of the time from a more pyaari

0:50:04standpoint and what looks good and what

0:50:06sells well and I think the boated nosov

0:50:10the car to the rocket stage is a really

0:50:12good example of this

0:50:13they're very silent on it and this is

0:50:16where you see the PR coming into things

0:50:18more this was the thing when I was

0:50:20mentioning before that the image seemed

0:50:21unreal was my number one question upon

0:50:25seeing those images was what it exactly

0:50:27is the physical situation here because I

0:50:29don't understand and I hadn't seen the

0:50:32launch at that point so I thought oh

0:50:33everybody who's seen the launch must

0:50:34just know and I don't have any

0:50:37perspective on it so I went googling

0:50:39around and trying to find it and I was

0:50:40really aware of the same thing like I

0:50:41can't find any information on is the

0:50:44Tesla just on its own or is it connected

0:50:47to something I couldn't quite find it

0:50:49and eventually in some reddit thread

0:50:52somewhere someone linked to this image

0:50:55which I don't think is an official image

0:50:57at all but they were trying to explain

0:50:58what the situation is and the thing that

0:51:01I have just sent Brady to look at

0:51:02shows that the Tesla is mounted on the

0:51:06top of a rocket almost like if you

0:51:09imagine if you had like a trophy at home

0:51:12someone was giving you a Tesla trophy

0:51:14there would be a base and then a

0:51:16narrower part for the trophy and then

0:51:18they would have a Tesla on the top of it

0:51:20that's what it looks like and when I was

0:51:23watching the livestream

0:51:26after having seen this image I could see

0:51:29that they show the rocket launching and

0:51:32then there's a very strategic moment

0:51:33where the livestream switches to a map

0:51:36they start playing the spaceman music

0:51:39and then it comes back and it just shows

0:51:41the Tesla as though it's floating in

0:51:42space and what I think happened there is

0:51:45that they blew the hood off the top of

0:51:49the rocket so that the Tesla is now

0:51:52exposed to outer space and then all of

0:51:55the camera angles are just from the side

0:51:58or just from the front so that you don't

0:52:00see the rocket that the Tesla is

0:52:02actually connected to and thinking about

0:52:04it it has to be connected to the rocket

0:52:08for that into the orbit and if it's

0:52:12connected to that Rockets like well

0:52:13where's that rocket going to go if it's

0:52:15pushing the Tesla it's just going to be

0:52:17right behind the Tesla I don't think

0:52:18there's any point in separating them so

0:52:21I mean you would there would be things

0:52:23you would separate just so I'm clear on

0:52:24what I'm saying here I don't think

0:52:25they've been particularly unclear about

0:52:27what happened when it was circling

0:52:28around the earth mm-hmm and I've just

0:52:30sent you and link to a picture that Elon

0:52:33Musk himself put on Instagram that shows

0:52:35like the mounted trophy car that's never

0:52:37been a secret and the fact that they

0:52:39just had all the camera angles cropped

0:52:41so that it makes a better photo to show

0:52:43in the car in space I can live with that

0:52:45why make a messy photo showing the rest

0:52:47of the rocket when you don't need to the

0:52:49thing I'm less clear about is it would

0:52:51be common to do like an injection burst

0:52:53to leave the Earth's orbit and then

0:52:55leave your rocket behind hmm that's what

0:52:58they have to do with probes like you

0:53:00know the telescope's that they send out

0:53:02far into space as well they eventually

0:53:04have to get rid of that huge hulking

0:53:05rocket behind and you have a payload

0:53:07separation so I thought it was possible

0:53:10this just like a tiny tiny little rocket

0:53:12or charge or something that will give

0:53:14the car an extra push

0:53:15and the rocket will like eventually

0:53:18start trailing behind that's what you

0:53:19would normally do because all the

0:53:21imagery and the official animations

0:53:23basics shows the car on its own like

0:53:25drifting past Mars and the cars on its

0:53:27own now it's no longer bolted to the top

0:53:29of the rocket but that they didn't show

0:53:31that happening and I haven't showed it

0:53:32happening they don't talk about it I

0:53:34don't think it's like a conspiracy or

0:53:37anything like that I just think from PR

0:53:38reasons they don't want the image that

0:53:41we all have to be a car stuck to a

0:53:45runner for a million years going through

0:53:47space so they want us to be thinking

0:53:49it's just the car with the astronaut on

0:53:51its own and whether that's the case or

0:53:53not I still don't know maybe there is

0:53:54the case it's suspiciously quiet to me

0:53:57it may be by the time this podcast goes

0:53:59out I'll know differently you know I'll

0:54:00do a Mia culpa but I think they're being

0:54:02a little bit

0:54:04pyaari at the moment yeah at the time of

0:54:06the recording it is unclear to both of

0:54:08us what the final situation is for this

0:54:11Tesla in space for millions of years

0:54:14someone just sent me a tweet there cuz

0:54:17I've been tweeting about this today

0:54:18someone just sent me a tweet from a

0:54:20tweet and a retweets I don't know how

0:54:21legit this is but it sounds legit

0:54:23already though someone with a bluetick

0:54:26tweeted I now have confirmation that the

0:54:29Tesla remains attached to the Falcons

0:54:31second stage which is being observed by

0:54:34asteroid experts it makes sense he'd

0:54:36want to attached to the main rocket

0:54:37because it'll be easier to track and all

0:54:39that sort of stuff but I'm becoming

0:54:41increasingly convinced until Elin must

0:54:45tweets me back and tells me otherwise

0:54:47that don't have an image of this car

0:54:49floating through space on its own there

0:54:51is a hulking great rocket stage attached

0:54:53to the bottom of it again doesn't matter

0:54:56still awesome still made nice photos but

0:54:59it shows an interesting difference

0:55:00what's going to happen now with

0:55:01commercial space exploration

0:55:03NASA's always is transparent almost to a

0:55:05fault aren't they they tell you too much

0:55:07and the commercial guys are going to be

0:55:10a lot more will just show you what we

0:55:12think is gonna get us the most retweets

0:55:13well Brady now so once those retweets to

0:55:16you know they do yeah that's true

0:55:19everybody wants to retweet oh yeah

0:55:22forgot about the kids spider-man gate

0:55:23okay let's keep the retweets you know my

0:55:26little nephew listens to the podcast

0:55:27he's like you

0:55:28bedtime thing right I was with him

0:55:30recently and we were talking about when

0:55:33uncle Brady spoke on the podcast about

0:55:35spider-man in space and he was like I

0:55:39think he said something along the lines

0:55:40of I really wanted to see spider-man in

0:55:42space sounds really cool

0:55:43I sort of smugly to smile to myself and

0:55:46thought well he's just a little boy he

0:55:47doesn't really understand what we're

0:55:48talking about on the podcast does he and

0:55:50I'm like yeah it looks pretty cool

0:55:51doesn't it what do you think uncle Brady

0:55:53thought about that and he just looked at

0:55:55me really solemnly and said you didn't

0:55:56like it ago but I think it's good he

0:56:02knew exactly what I was complaining

0:56:03about but he's stupid it was awesome

0:56:07put me in my place

0:56:09uncle Brady party pooper so Brady I've

0:56:15been getting into a lot of documentaries

0:56:16lately yeah and I recommended one to you

0:56:20to watch and I understand that you

0:56:23you've seen an episode of it and this is

0:56:25the Netflix documentary called the

0:56:28confession tapes hmm it's about this

0:56:30thing that we have touched upon on the

0:56:33show which is my belief in the frailty

0:56:35and the easily manipulated nature of

0:56:40human memories and his documentary

0:56:44series it's like a series of TV shows I

0:56:46thought it was very very interesting to

0:56:49see but what they're doing in each

0:56:50episode is they're talking about a trial

0:56:55where it is believed that the defendant

0:56:59has submitted into evidence a false

0:57:02confession for one reason or another I

0:57:04find this stuff personally horrifying on

0:57:08a variety of levels and I thought you

0:57:11might want to watch it before the show

0:57:12did you think it was good I watched one

0:57:14episode I watched episode three the

0:57:17third one on your advice and yes it was

0:57:19it was pretty good thought it was

0:57:22alright I don't know why that episode

0:57:24was the one you decided to recommend to

0:57:25me I'm sure you'll tell me but I love

0:57:28this stuff by the way and I'm gonna

0:57:29watch all of them cuz I find it

0:57:31fascinating but I do feel like I'm

0:57:33getting a little bit jaded by like

0:57:35criminal stuff and podcasts and

0:57:37documentaries is all the rage at the

0:57:39moment it's everywhere you look and this

0:57:41sort of wrong

0:57:42convicted people thing has become a big

0:57:44since cereal has become a real big thing

0:57:47and everyone loves jumping on her and as

0:57:49far as those things go I thought this

0:57:52one that you got me to watch was a

0:57:53pretty standard run-of-the-mill an

0:57:57exceptional case that made me a little

0:58:00bit yeah

0:58:01I wasn't outraged by it didn't move my

0:58:04emotional needle very much but I thought

0:58:07it was well made and good and it's made

0:58:09me wanna watch more and I guess in some

0:58:12ways the typical blender solvent maybe

0:58:14is a good reason that you chose me to

0:58:16watch this one because it was so typical

0:58:18of this sort of forced confession thing

0:58:20but yeah I wanted to mention it because

0:58:21I feel like it didn't have any

0:58:22particular special circumstances some of

0:58:25the other episodes have particularly the

0:58:26first one which is a two-parter have

0:58:28what I regard as somewhat appalling

0:58:30special circumstances with regards to

0:58:32confessions yeah but in this episode it

0:58:35is that like here is how just a normal

0:58:38person gets sucked into this thing it's

0:58:40a guy whose girlfriend is killed in a

0:58:44bar and then the bar is set on fire and

0:58:45he's brought in to the police and as

0:58:49these things go the police start

0:58:50questioning him and he eventually gives

0:58:53a confession which he says is a false

0:58:55confession there are a couple of things

0:58:57that I was just thinking about watching

0:59:01this and and you say that crime stuff is

0:59:05very popular like it's very zeitgeist II

0:59:08at the moment and it's like man people

0:59:10sure do you love crime it's a thing I'm

0:59:13aware like if I'm in a bookstore mo he's

0:59:16always aware of like oh there's a whole

0:59:17section which is just called true crime

0:59:19which is a thousand books alright just

0:59:22about criminal stuff and yeah it feels

0:59:25like there's an overabundance of crime

0:59:27podcasts that exist in the world but

0:59:31this is a thing that I I still wonder

0:59:34about is does the average person really

0:59:39have any idea about false confessions or

0:59:44how unreliable human eye witness

0:59:47testimony is and in this episode in

0:59:50particular one at one of the jurors

0:59:52makes a few comments about not being

0:59:55aware

0:59:56of things are simply not believing like

0:59:58well someone had a confession like how

0:59:59could