H.I. #97: Tesla in Space
◼
►
possibly not be true who would ever
◼
►
confess to a crime that they haven't
◼
►
committed and I was watching this I just
◼
►
kept thinking why don't we have
◼
►
professional jurors I don't understand
◼
►
why it's like an advantage to pull a
◼
►
bunch of randos off the street and have
◼
►
them being the one in in the trial
◼
►
well because here's the thing I feel
◼
►
like having watched a bunch of these
◼
►
episodes this idea kept coming into my
◼
►
head that part of the problem
◼
►
is not even just that you can manipulate
◼
►
a person into confessing a crime that
◼
►
they did not commit the other half of
◼
►
the problem is the way that the
◼
►
prosecution can manipulate the jury to
◼
►
get a win for the prosecution because
◼
►
the jurors are unfamiliar with what the
◼
►
system is surely it would be an
◼
►
advantage to have people who are
◼
►
professional jurors who are familiar
◼
►
with how the whole system works doing
◼
►
this who don't have to a newbie
◼
►
explained every time here's what police
◼
►
procedures should be who don't have to
◼
►
anew every time be introduced to and
◼
►
convinced and sold on the idea that a
◼
►
confession is not as a reliable piece of
◼
►
evidence as you think it is it's just
◼
►
blowing my mind thinking about the
◼
►
man-hours as a society we must invest in
◼
►
re-explaining stuff too every brand-new
◼
►
pool of jurors that exists and I'm just
◼
►
what like is there something that I'm
◼
►
missing here is there an argument
◼
►
against professional jurors I've never
◼
►
really thought about it until yesterday
◼
►
and today when I was watching these
◼
►
episodes but it's just like I can't get
◼
►
this out of my head why is this not a
◼
►
thing that we have oh you're making my
◼
►
I've thought of so many things to say I
◼
►
can't remember the moment well I mean
◼
►
every jurisdiction is different and I
◼
►
finally talked about jurisdictions in
◼
►
which I've have experiences like a
◼
►
journalist and have lived in the first
◼
►
thing I'd say is in most of the places
◼
►
I've lived we do have professional do
◼
►
their code judges and in a lot of
◼
►
jurisdictions you can choose if you wish
◼
►
to be judged by the judge the
◼
►
professional juror instead of a jury of
◼
►
civilians and the reason most people
◼
►
don't do that is because juries are
◼
►
actually in the defense's best interest
◼
►
in most cases and they would prefer to
◼
►
have a jury so suggesting that a juries
◼
►
are too easily manipulated by the
◼
►
prosecution I think it's the exact
◼
►
opposite and they're too easily
◼
►
manipulated by the defense well I think
◼
►
we could say that they're too easily
◼
►
manipulated right well fair enough and
◼
►
we have this thing that it's enshrined
◼
►
in law in some places that you can be
◼
►
tried by your peers and it's not
◼
►
enshrined in law that you can be tried
◼
►
by professionally appointed government
◼
►
appointed officials who are part of like
◼
►
the establishment and I think that would
◼
►
cause an even bigger problem if everyone
◼
►
was being tried by government appointees
◼
►
you can see that's the thin end of a
◼
►
wedge that's going to get really
◼
►
problematic really quickly I think when
◼
►
you say it like professional jurors
◼
►
you've got this nice idea in your head
◼
►
of like you know just smart super fair
◼
►
impartial people but they have to be
◼
►
appointed and who appoints them a
◼
►
government and as soon as you say
◼
►
government appointed officials are going
◼
►
to be deciding who's innocent and guilty
◼
►
you've totally lost this tried by your
◼
►
peers component of the law that is so
◼
►
sacred to so many people yeah I don't
◼
►
think the judge gets around that though
◼
►
like when you say oh you can be tried by
◼
►
professional juror who was a judge to me
◼
►
that the terrifying thing about the
◼
►
judge is that they are one person I feel
◼
►
like I would almost never want to roll
◼
►
the dice on a single person because a
◼
►
single person is too unreliable that's
◼
►
why you have multiple jurors there you
◼
►
do actually there are some cases by the
◼
►
way that can be heard by three judges
◼
►
okay that's much better
◼
►
we're splitting hairs now but no no but
◼
►
that does make a difference if I had to
◼
►
choose between like a trial by jury and
◼
►
three judges that is much more of a real
◼
►
consideration although that does start
◼
►
getting into against some of the America
◼
►
specific scary stuff first like but the
◼
►
judges need to be elected and then it's
◼
►
like oh god now that's a little
◼
►
different affair or even appointed but
◼
►
also I haven't got numbers on this but
◼
►
I'm almost certain that you get far more
◼
►
acquittals from juries than you do from
◼
►
like thinking of being wrongly accused
◼
►
CGP grey i think you may want to
◼
►
consider that the jury I think you do
◼
►
raise a good point that there may be a
◼
►
thin end of the wedge here which is how
◼
►
does a professional jury member become
◼
►
one of those people when you say like
◼
►
their government to point it I was
◼
►
saying like oh no but that they wouldn't
◼
►
be like that it's like ah but obviously
◼
►
ultimately the legal system in some way
◼
►
would need to be deciding who is able to
◼
►
become a professional juror and I
◼
►
haven't really thought this through I'm
◼
►
just I'm just thinking this out loud now
◼
►
but I mean I don't know how much you
◼
►
know about the UK justice system gray
◼
►
but one thing they do this doesn't
◼
►
really apply to you know murder trials
◼
►
and stuff but you do have volunteer
◼
►
magistrates through the country and
◼
►
these are normally people who are like
◼
►
respected people in good jobs and
◼
►
they're and they'll volunteer a couple
◼
►
of days a month to sit in the
◼
►
magistrate's court and they become just
◼
►
like a judge doing like high-volume
◼
►
stuff with people who've you know had
◼
►
minor run-ins with the law and they have
◼
►
like a professional little committee
◼
►
with them that advises them and tells
◼
►
them how the law works and things they
◼
►
can do but they sit there and show their
◼
►
own discretion and and make decisions so
◼
►
you mean like it like it's a civil court
◼
►
no it's a proper court like it's a
◼
►
Criminal Court but it's for more low
◼
►
stakes infringement I don't know a lot
◼
►
about it except I know a few people who
◼
►
do it an old boss of mine at the BBC was
◼
►
a magistrate for many years so once or
◼
►
twice a month she would have to go and
◼
►
do it and she would just sit there and
◼
►
people would make their case to her and
◼
►
she would decide whether they got a
◼
►
rough ride or an easy ride and she had
◼
►
experts there they'd be like a
◼
►
magistrate's assistant that would tell
◼
►
her here's what you can deal with his
◼
►
what you can do you could sentence up to
◼
►
this or you could do that but they got
◼
►
to show the discretion and they were
◼
►
almost like community judges but I mean
◼
►
this is for low stakes stuff she wasn't
◼
►
sitting there deciding whether or not
◼
►
someone murdered their girlfriend yeah I
◼
►
don't know I feel like you have
◼
►
immediately thrown all of these monkey
◼
►
wrenches into my poorly thought-out
◼
►
ideas but I still have this emotional
◼
►
response to what I view as like oh
◼
►
you're just gonna have 12 randos pulled
◼
►
and they're unfamiliar with the whole
◼
►
process and because I'm watching the
◼
►
show about false confessions obviously
◼
►
my concern is about being manipulated
◼
►
into convicting someone but then again
◼
►
like my scales of justice are weighed
◼
►
very heavily on it's it's far worse to
◼
►
convict an innocent person than to let a
◼
►
guilty person go for you by far so
◼
►
that's where my concern is but
◼
►
nonetheless their inexperience allows
◼
►
them to be manipulated by the defense as
◼
►
well I don't know it's just it seems
◼
►
like it's just in tremendous advantage
◼
►
for the jurors not to all be noobs at
◼
►
the job of handling people's lives I
◼
►
don't know a way around this yeah I say
◼
►
you made you feel that we're having to
◼
►
reinvent the wheel every trial to my
◼
►
mind the problem is also that you're
◼
►
having these noobs go up against the
◼
►
experts and so the trial lawyers on both
◼
►
sides are able to see how jurors react
◼
►
to different things over time or
◼
►
different cases or different ways to
◼
►
present things I just I feel like it is
◼
►
extraordinarily asymmetric I just don't
◼
►
think this is good or Eve even things
◼
►
like you know my dad's a lawyer
◼
►
and that basically excludes him from
◼
►
ever being able to be on a jury ever
◼
►
like when he's been called in to jury
◼
►
duty it's like oh you're a lawyer get
◼
►
out of here like we don't want you on
◼
►
the jury have you ever been summoned for
◼
►
jury duty I haven't but I'm gonna in a
◼
►
bit of a funny situation getting
◼
►
overseas but I received a summons and
◼
►
then there's like a form that you fill
◼
►
out that says lol I live 2,000 miles
◼
►
away it's not it's not going to happen
◼
►
I'm not coming back to North Carolina to
◼
►
sit on a jury have you I never have no I
◼
►
remember once being in a in a court
◼
►
covering a trial and there was like a
◼
►
fire evacuation in the court building
◼
►
and we had to go out through the jury
◼
►
room it was so exciting and getting to
◼
►
go into the jury room and all their
◼
►
personal stuff was lying around and it
◼
►
was like oh this is so naughty because
◼
►
they're so sacred to the jury getting to
◼
►
go through their room was like a real
◼
►
treat I imagine it was there and it was
◼
►
like also often in the lunch break I
◼
►
would go out into at the markets and get
◼
►
food and like jurors from cases who I
◼
►
was covering would be
◼
►
out getting themselves a hot dog and a
◼
►
milkshake as well and a bit like at the
◼
►
airport when you're like really
◼
►
conscientious about doing the right
◼
►
thing I would make such an effort to not
◼
►
look at them or talk to any jurors or be
◼
►
seen going anywhere near any of them it
◼
►
was crazy because you're very
◼
►
responsible very response very
◼
►
responsible member of the media
◼
►
unlike in America all the crazy stuff
◼
►
that can happen where you take a
◼
►
bewildered guy you put him up through a
◼
►
perp walk right in front of some cameras
◼
►
and tell him to apologize to the world
◼
►
for the thing that he's done it's like
◼
►
oh absolutely crazy that that kind of
◼
►
thing can happen in American media with
◼
►
juries but if I was ever called I mean
◼
►
of course I would do everything within
◼
►
my human power to not sit on that jury
◼
►
the number one thing being is I'd be
◼
►
like I will disregard all eyewitness
◼
►
testimony no matter what I'm pretty sure
◼
►
just that would get me disqualified from
◼
►
a jury immediately like I will not
◼
►
listen to any of your eyewitness
◼
►
testimony I really wouldn't want to be
◼
►
in a jury because I think I would just
◼
►
freak out at the idea that like I have
◼
►
to sit in this little box when they tell
◼
►
me to sit in the box and I can only take
◼
►
breaks when they tell me it's time to
◼
►
I feel like now if I want to go to the
◼
►
bathroom I'm gonna go to the bathroom
◼
►
and I don't care what you guys are doing
◼
►
I would make a terrible juror so no I
◼
►
wouldn't I wouldn't want to be in the
◼
►
box I would do and say anything to not
◼
►
be on a jury so I don't think that
◼
►
that's gonna happen anytime soon there
◼
►
was a case in Scotland just recently
◼
►
that I've just caught up on my screen I
◼
►
was reading about it where it was a one
◼
►
of those nightmare white-collar criminal
◼
►
property fraud type trials and the jury
◼
►
had to sit for 20 months for the case I
◼
►
mean he might as well be in prison if
◼
►
that's happening apparently they needed
◼
►
like counselling and psychological
◼
►
treatment afterwards to go back to the
◼
►
real world and because of Scottish law
◼
►
is really strict about the 12 jurors
◼
►
thing and there were 12 of them if one
◼
►
of them left or something the whole
◼
►
trial would have collapsed so they all
◼
►
had to like make sure they could see it
◼
►
through so the trial didn't fall in a
◼
►
hey this is why I don't want to be on
◼
►
the jury I would forget it like screw
◼
►
your trial I'm going home what happened
◼
►
to those people do any of them have like
◼
►
did they lose their jobs or like did
◼
►
they just lose a bunch of money to their
◼
►
employer I have to pay them all that
◼
►
time sometimes big chunky a lot of 20
◼
►
months yeah I know at least in the u.s.
◼
►
screw it if you get on a jury there's
◼
►
some amount of compensation that you get
◼
►
that is insulting Lelo like here have a
◼
►
dollar a day I feel like you know what
◼
►
keep your goddamn dollar don't think
◼
►
like you're paying me and we're even now
◼
►
you take this dollar and you shove it up
◼
►
your ass for me losing a day of my life
◼
►
so your employer doesn't have to pay but
◼
►
presumably they can't sack you like you
◼
►
must be allowed to go back to your job I
◼
►
hope all right yeah I don't know I don't
◼
►
know how it works with the work like
◼
►
I don't know but it doesn't sound fun
◼
►
one last thing though that's again
◼
►
watching the show just hammered into me
◼
►
as thoroughly as an idea can be hammered
◼
►
into a person even someone who is the
◼
►
son of a lawyer is the idea of just like
◼
►
the police are not your friends never
◼
►
talk to the police hmm
◼
►
ever for any reason it's like the world
◼
►
shouldn't be this way but it it totally
◼
►
is and it just makes me feel bad seeing
◼
►
people get caught up in the idea that
◼
►
like oh I'm just trying to help the
◼
►
police because they need to clear me as
◼
►
the boyfriend so they can move on and
◼
►
find who the real killer is hmm what is
◼
►
like that's not really the police's
◼
►
motivation the police's motivation is to
◼
►
close this case as fast as possible and
◼
►
you're sitting right in front get the
◼
►
clearance up on the board yeah exactly
◼
►
like you are a file that's a stack of
◼
►
files that needs to go away
◼
►
and if I was ever pulled in to talk to
◼
►
the police about anything it's like I
◼
►
will say nothing unless my attorney is
◼
►
here and be like oh we didn't want to
◼
►
talk to you because the Queen was
◼
►
assassinated and you were in the crowd
◼
►
we have you on CCTV we know you didn't
◼
►
do it we just want to know if you saw
◼
►
anything that could help us I'd be like
◼
►
I'm not saying a goddamn word until my
◼
►
attorney is here I know how you people
◼
►
work I wonder if it would be any
◼
►
different than if someone like you
◼
►
really loved hello had something had
◼
►
happened to them whether or not you'd be
◼
►
like more eager to help the police just
◼
►
out of can't some kind of devotion to
◼
►
obviously it's different if the person's
◼
►
died but but say you know someone you
◼
►
loved was kidnapped and you were
◼
►
thinking well I've got to just do
◼
►
everything I can to help the police to
◼
►
you know get this person back or yeah I
◼
►
mean I know kidnapping said not pretty
◼
►
rare but kidnappings are rare but it
◼
►
puts you in a really difficult position
◼
►
as the only thing which I think it never
◼
►
the details of a never
◼
►
crossed my mind but watching this
◼
►
documentary it also really solidified is
◼
►
in every episode it's it's somebody who
◼
►
has lost a very close loved one right
◼
►
it's it's a girlfriend or its parents or
◼
►
it's a child or it's a spouse and it
◼
►
never really quite occurred to me how
◼
►
horrible this situation is where it's
◼
►
like okay you you have lost your wife
◼
►
and then you're going to spend 16 hours
◼
►
a day for the next three days being
◼
►
interrogated by the police while you're
◼
►
in the middle of the worst emotional
◼
►
event of your entire life and I think I
◼
►
just it had never really crossed me the
◼
►
true horror of that like you're in a
◼
►
daze but you also have these people who
◼
►
are just asking you questions about
◼
►
absolutely everything and you're
◼
►
obviously the number one suspect of
◼
►
what's going on it's like it's not bad
◼
►
enough that you've lost a loved one but
◼
►
you're also getting like bullied at the
◼
►
same time that this is going on
◼
►
obviously the police have to talk to the
◼
►
people who are the most likely suspects
◼
►
because when someone dies is like well
◼
►
let's put that family up on the board
◼
►
like it's probably one of these people
◼
►
so I don't know how to resolve that but
◼
►
it just seems inhumanly cruel to
◼
►
immediately start questioning someone
◼
►
when you find out like Oh their
◼
►
girlfriend has died let's take them to
◼
►
the station right now to do an interview
◼
►
I can't imagine talking to anyone under
◼
►
those circumstances so be like I'm sorry
◼
►
I need to go curl up in a ball and just
◼
►
cry for days for a while like you can
◼
►
call me in a week and maybe I can put
◼
►
together a coherent sentence like I
◼
►
can't talk to police officers now it
◼
►
just seems so cruel but you don't need
◼
►
to obviously you know that you need to
◼
►
try and sort out crimes as soon as
◼
►
possible after they happen before
◼
►
evidence vanishes but let's put that to
◼
►
one side because it is it that is an
◼
►
interesting conflict do you think that
◼
►
you are being naive to think that you
◼
►
can get a confession or someone to tell
◼
►
logic or catching them out in a lie or
◼
►
do you think like in a real world where
◼
►
bad people do bad things and then lie
◼
►
about them that you need to use some
◼
►
Dark Arts to get to the truth sometimes
◼
►
and it's unrealistic to expect this sort
◼
►
of goody-two-shoes fair's fair approach
◼
►
and when you're dealing with bad people
◼
►
sometimes a bit of tricking them can get
◼
►
you to the truth I think that the legal
◼
►
system is so important that you can't
◼
►
have it be the system that uses the dark
◼
►
arts I mean that to me is like okay
◼
►
professional jurors maybe there's a thin
◼
►
end of a wedge here where the government
◼
►
starts appointing the people who are
◼
►
going to decide who is innocent and who
◼
►
is not innocent but if you say like oh
◼
►
the police can use tricks to try to
◼
►
catch the bad guys I just can never get
◼
►
behind that because I feel like it
◼
►
sullies the entire system and also just
◼
►
my own personal belief here that I just
◼
►
don't I don't think those tricks are
◼
►
meaningful because of my disregard of
◼
►
human memory I don't think it's
◼
►
meaningful I think it is too easy to get
◼
►
people to talk about things that they
◼
►
just remember very poorly even in
◼
►
trivial ways that documentary that you
◼
►
had may watch episode 3 I'm sure link to
◼
►
if people want to watch this specific
◼
►
one I watch that and obviously there was
◼
►
no recording of the second day of the
◼
►
questioning of this guy so I don't who
◼
►
knows what happened but if we're just
◼
►
going on what we saw in the documentary
◼
►
I loved what I saw that policeman doing
◼
►
was just kind of like building a rapport
◼
►
even though he's faking and being
◼
►
insincere and I can't believe the guy
◼
►
didn't see through it like do you think
◼
►
it's wrong for a policeman to try and
◼
►
build a rapport with someone who they
◼
►
thinks a suspect build up a level of
◼
►
trust even though it's insincere in the
◼
►
hope that you get to the truth I think
◼
►
that's a that's a trickier question have
◼
►
you happened to see also on Netflix
◼
►
there's a series which they fixed
◼
►
analyze series but it's called mine
◼
►
hunter have you happened to watch I just
◼
►
finished it last night
◼
►
yeah so no spoilers for mine hunter for
◼
►
the listeners but this is a mean plot
◼
►
Hunter is like building up insincere
◼
►
rapport yeah criminals the big
◼
►
difference there is I feel like in that
◼
►
show the FBI agents are talking to
◼
►
convicted criminals so I think there's a
◼
►
big difference when you talk about
◼
►
someone who has already been convicted
◼
►
at that point like do you want to build
◼
►
up a false rapport with them to get
◼
►
information like whatever I don't have a
◼
►
lot of problem with that but I do have
◼
►
much more of a problem when you're
◼
►
talking about someone who is presumed
◼
►
innocent someone who is just a suspect
◼
►
and yeah I have even more of a problem
◼
►
with it when the rapport that you're
◼
►
building is all pointing in a particular
◼
►
direction so the police officer is
◼
►
saying things like well we all get into
◼
►
fights with the people we love the most
◼
►
and he's like well I've never thought
◼
►
about divorcing my wife but I sure have
◼
►
thought about strangling her to death
◼
►
you know what I mean and it's like
◼
►
that's not building rapport that's how
◼
►
you start planting ideas in the mind of
◼
►
someone going through trauma it seems
◼
►
like it's rapport building and if the
◼
►
person was guilty maybe it would be
◼
►
which is also partly why I selected that
◼
►
episode because I feel like of all the
◼
►
episodes that is maybe the most
◼
►
ambiguous one hmm but it's like it's
◼
►
rapport building but it's rapport
◼
►
building that's pointing toward
◼
►
something so that's why I can't go along
◼
►
with it because it's also a person who
◼
►
is presumed innocent I mean we discuss
◼
►
this issue a bit I always feel like you
◼
►
see it in very black-and-white terms I
◼
►
don't feel like you sort of see some of
◼
►
the shades of grey involved but in some
◼
►
ways I think maybe you're right to be
◼
►
that way when the stakes are so high and
◼
►
it's important that a system retains so
◼
►
much integrity so it's it's it's hard to
◼
►
argue against you although I think in
◼
►
practice like I feel like a lot of
◼
►
crimes might go unsolved but I know
◼
►
you're kind of you know I'd rather have
◼
►
ten unsolved crimes than one falsely
◼
►
imprisoned person but yeah I mean again
◼
►
this is this is where the criminal
◼
►
justice system to me is is the most
◼
►
perfect example of this way I think
◼
►
about a lot of things in society where
◼
►
you can just there are outcomes you want
◼
►
and there are dials that you can turn
◼
►
on this big machine to try to get the
◼
►
outcomes that you want but you don't
◼
►
know exactly how far to turn all of
◼
►
those dials you don't know where to
◼
►
precisely tune them you can only have
◼
►
answers about tuning too far in one
◼
►
direction or tuning too far in the other
◼
►
direction and so yeah I'm particularly
◼
►
with criminal justice I'm always leaning
◼
►
on the side of if we have to tune too
◼
►
far in the direction of letting too many
◼
►
people go that is a vastly preferable
◼
►
option to convicting innocent people but
◼
►
there are shades of gray here but I just
◼
►
I I feel like I can't sign below the
◼
►
document that says I'm okay with using
◼
►
Dark Arts and tricks in the pursuit of
◼
►
justice even if you have the most noble
◼
►
of police officers behind that pursuit I
◼
►
hope you don't use any of these
◼
►
techniques on me when you lull me into
◼
►
talking about SpaceX and a lot of us
◼
►
could get myself into trouble but I'm
◼
►
the interviewer here coming alive you're
◼
►
the cop you're the cop I uh I could see
◼
►
why you'd think that Brady tell me more
◼
►
I'm just digging myself deeper and
◼
►
deeper yeah can I have an inbox full of
◼
►
Elon Musk fans now I'm making casual
◼
►
comments about the commercial nature of
◼
►
Tesla just unrelated to build rapport to
◼
►
you baby listeners don't know that we
◼
►
did discuss the commercial interests of
◼
►
the world for 20 minutes before we
◼
►
started recording coz I was trying to
◼
►
Prime I did like that Falcon heavy stuff
◼
►
you know I know I know I thought it was
◼
►
ghosts don't worry the people no hello
◼
►
Internet this episode is brought to you
◼
►
in part by Harry's Harry's is the
◼
►
company that's all about a great shave
◼
►
at a fair price which is why over three
◼
►
million guys have switched to Harry's
◼
►
razors Harry's is the company that lets
◼
►
you get everything you need to shave
◼
►
without having to leave the house which
◼
►
is my favorite thing about any company
◼
►
or the internet not leaving the house
◼
►
you can just sit at home and the razors
◼
►
come right to your door no effort
◼
►
required no talking to people required
◼
►
it's very nice the company was started
◼
►
by Jeff and Andy two guys who
◼
►
fed up with getting charged an arm and a
◼
►
so they started Harry's they stripped
◼
►
out all the unnecessary features that
◼
►
you get in dumb razor blades like
◼
►
vibrating handles which do nothing and
◼
►
they took out all of the unnecessary
◼
►
middleman costs of delivering the razors
◼
►
to a company to then sell them to you
◼
►
know Harry's sells you the razor blades
◼
►
directly and so you get those savings
◼
►
because Harry's owns their own factory
◼
►
they're able to deliver amazing quality
◼
►
blades for just $2 each
◼
►
compared to probably $4 or more you're
◼
►
going to pay at the drugstore to also
◼
►
get a dumb vibrating handle that you
◼
►
don't need all of Harry's products are
◼
►
backed by a 100% quality guarantee and
◼
►
they're so confident you're going to
◼
►
love their blades they'll give you their
◼
►
trial shave set for free when you sign
◼
►
up at Harry's comm / H eye all you need
◼
►
to do is pay for the shipping
◼
►
Harry's equipment is just so nicely
◼
►
packaged so good-looking and so
◼
►
convenient you're crazy not to give them
◼
►
a try so claim your free trial offer
◼
►
from Harry's today it's a 13 dollar
◼
►
value for free when you sign up at
◼
►
Harry's com / H I just cover the
◼
►
shipping cost your free trial set will
◼
►
include a weighted organ AMA grazier
◼
►
handle 5 precision engineered blades
◼
►
with lubricating strip and trimmer blade
◼
►
rich lathering shave gel and a travel
◼
►
blade cover so right now go to
◼
►
harrys.com / h i that's harrys.com / h i
◼
►
and thanks to Harry's for supporting the
◼
►
show let's talk about hotmail for sir ok
◼
►
let's talk about a hotmail okay I
◼
►
actually have a lot of thoughts about
◼
►
hotmail ok I know I thought you might I
◼
►
thought you might so there was a story
◼
►
going around the other day about
◼
►
insurance companies and profiling they
◼
►
were using to set people's insurance
◼
►
rates and I think the original story was
◼
►
if people had a name that sounded though
◼
►
of a certain ethnicity they were having
◼
►
higher insurance rates set and that was
◼
►
obviously considered quite unfair and by
◼
►
in the second day as the story rolled on
◼
►
it emerged that insurance companies were
◼
►
setting higher rates for people who were
◼
►
using hot mail addresses than other
◼
►
words they thought if you use hotmail
◼
►
you're obviously a greater insurance
◼
►
risk and you would have to pay higher
◼
►
premiums to insure you like car
◼
►
insurance or is just like an insurance
◼
►
company in general if it's car insurance
◼
►
I have a theory about this think it was
◼
►
car insurance in the story I read what
◼
►
do you think about that profiling by a
◼
►
choice of email sex this is kind of
◼
►
delightful because I think these stories
◼
►
come up with insurance okay isn't it
◼
►
this might be the most boring thing to
◼
►
ever say but I think it is fascinating
◼
►
the constraints that we want to put on
◼
►
insurance companies versus their
◼
►
actuarial knowledge of the world right
◼
►
so if anybody has accurate actuarial
◼
►
knowledge of the world it is insurance
◼
►
companies they will know correlations
◼
►
and expenses that is their their whole
◼
►
job but then there is this intersection
◼
►
where insurance companies run into the
◼
►
real world where we say like oh no no oh
◼
►
no no insurance company this correlation
◼
►
is not okay you can't use this and I
◼
►
feel like insurance companies are just
◼
►
at this this real intersection of these
◼
►
two things where's like they can know
◼
►
things but we forced them to pretend
◼
►
like they don't know things well I
◼
►
thought was it will get to a point where
◼
►
they're no longer like sharing risks
◼
►
right well yeah if they become old
◼
►
knowing insurance ceases to be insurance
◼
►
it just becomes paying first yeah but
◼
►
that's exactly like that is the super
◼
►
fascinating thing right because the only
◼
►
reason insurance exists is because they
◼
►
don't know everything but as their
◼
►
knowledge increases you are 100% right
◼
►
that the insurance company just trends
◼
►
toward the cost of the thing right and
◼
►
then it's like wait there's no business
◼
►
here at all right so is like insurance
◼
►
companies can only exist in a world that
◼
►
has some amount of in certainty and then
◼
►
we want to enforce uncertainty on them
◼
►
like the hotmail thing my total guests
◼
►
here for car insurance is that I'd be
◼
►
willing to bet that hotmail users trend
◼
►
much older on average than the general
◼
►
population and I'm gonna say that much
◼
►
older people are going to have higher
◼
►
rates of car accidents than the general
◼
►
that's not true I think older people get
◼
►
cheaper car insurance I think it's young
◼
►
21 year old males that are most likely
◼
►
to wrap their car around a tree and that
◼
►
to me is the prime example of do you
◼
►
allow an insurance company to do this is
◼
►
the teenage boy driving a car if a car
◼
►
is going to be destroyed a teenage boy
◼
►
is going to do it and this is legal or
◼
►
not legal in various jurisdictions to
◼
►
say something like can you charge a
◼
►
teenage boy higher car insurance and
◼
►
some places say yes some places say no I
◼
►
was just suspecting that you would also
◼
►
have a higher incidence of accident for
◼
►
older drivers I'm at least thinking of
◼
►
places in America where I'm always
◼
►
horrified by people who are like wildly
◼
►
unqualified to be drivers who still have
◼
►
driver's licenses that is just my theory
◼
►
like what might hotmail be correlated
◼
►
with I mean you probably are right
◼
►
because you usually are but that
◼
►
wouldn't have been my guess I hadn't
◼
►
thought of hotmail users as being older
◼
►
I can see why you would say that but I
◼
►
thought it would be more the case that
◼
►
they were figuring hotmail users were
◼
►
less professional and therefore maybe
◼
►
less likely to be very responsible big
◼
►
yeah or just like you know anyone who's
◼
►
using hotmail has obviously made poor
◼
►
decisions in their life so they're going
◼
►
to make poor decisions on the road could
◼
►
also just be yes I had it since you're a
◼
►
boy great yeah no so I've just kept it
◼
►
so I do have my hotmail account I do
◼
►
have other I do have numerous other no
◼
►
of course you do but don't use that when
◼
►
you're applying for your insurance right
◼
►
that's that's what you don't want to do
◼
►
this is another dial of society that I
◼
►
don't really know how to adjust because
◼
►
in in general I feel like I'm okay with
◼
►
insurance companies charging different
◼
►
rates to different people but there
◼
►
would come a point where it's simply not
◼
►
insurance anymore if you just know too
◼
►
everybody so that like there's going to
◼
►
need to be something like that but I
◼
►
think the hotmail thing is funny and I
◼
►
personally don't have any problem with
◼
►
it whatsoever I don't know how people
◼
►
would react to this but I suspect that
◼
►
there are going to be vastly more and
◼
►
more things like this that come to light
◼
►
through big data analysis and through
◼
►
through this kind of thing where some of
◼
►
my favorite examples of this are
◼
►
innocuous questions you can ask people
◼
►
that will very rapidly zero in on things
◼
►
like who do they vote for in the last
◼
►
election and so you ask people questions
◼
►
like do you like dogs better than cats
◼
►
and questions like that that seem like
◼
►
they have nothing to do with anything
◼
►
and if you are picking really well
◼
►
chosen questions that have been
◼
►
developed from enormous databases of
◼
►
people's preferences you can
◼
►
surprisingly quickly zero in with a very
◼
►
high confidence interval on what did a
◼
►
person vote for in the previous election
◼
►
or all these kinds of things where again
◼
►
like people imagine that they are vastly
◼
►
different from other people but then
◼
►
they're not like there are patterns that
◼
►
you know how they traditionally have
◼
►
some problems with political polling
◼
►
because people aren't always honest
◼
►
about who they vote for do you think it
◼
►
will ever get to a stage where those
◼
►
companies will ring people up and say do
◼
►
you like dogs do you like hamburgers
◼
►
where do you go on holiday and not even
◼
►
ask you who you voted for and say thank
◼
►
you very much and say okay Democrat
◼
►
voter well I wonder if it'll ever get to
◼
►
that point where they just don't trust
◼
►
your answer to who do you vote for and
◼
►
they use the other stuff to get to the
◼
►
truth instead I haven't seen something
◼
►
like that I have some come across some
◼
►
research which does things like using
◼
►
similar methods to estimate voter
◼
►
dishonesty right where you are looking
◼
►
at some information that you can gather
◼
►
about a person and then looking at their
◼
►
actual response and you can't know
◼
►
obviously perfectly but you can put
◼
►
higher or lower confidence intervals on
◼
►
was this person reporting the truth and
◼
►
it becomes very quickly very unlikely or
◼
►
very likely if you can gather enough
◼
►
information on this kind of thing so I
◼
►
do kind of think that that's the case I
◼
►
mean again this is this is much more an
◼
►
issue in the United States where you
◼
►
have to motivate people to go vote but
◼
►
this is this is a real science now of
◼
►
trying to drill down to very very
◼
►
particular individual people and knowing
◼
►
like when do you want to send them stuff
◼
►
in the mail to try to motivate them to
◼
►
vote and you can do that because you're
◼
►
highly confident about who they will
◼
►
vote for with the information that
◼
►
you're sending so I think that is kind
◼
►
of a thing already but either way I
◼
►
think insurance companies are gonna be
◼
►
at the forefront of this because they
◼
►
they are the ones who are at the
◼
►
bleeding edge of being able to extract
◼
►
value from knowing more and more about
◼
►
what data represents about a person's
◼
►
I like this podcast it's pretty cool and
◼
►
if you're someone who met someone who
◼
►
knows Brady I can confirm this podcast
◼
►
Brady and gray have influenced
◼
►
real-world events such as the New
◼
►
Zealand flag referendum and a poll on
◼
►
some radio website or something about
◼
►
top audio personalities so rest assured
◼
►
reader this podcast is legit five stars
◼
►
we've been getting a lot of reviews
◼
►
Brady what was that you've met someone
◼
►
who knows someone who I don't even get
◼
►
that that was your call Brady you wanted
◼
►
like acquaintances that your wife was
◼
►
talking to when hello internet was
◼
►
mentioned in reference to you you wanted
◼
►
that person when they went to go look up
◼
►
the reviews on iTunes to see that the
◼
►
podcast was a big deal I've be crated
◼
►
back to myself this is the danger of
◼
►
this podcast sometimes when I make
◼
►
people oh this and they'll say some line
◼
►
at me like and I'll be like what are you
◼
►
talking about but you said that the
◼
►
things I say on the show you're missing
◼
►
out on your own in jokes I say a lot of
◼
►
rubbish I can't remember all of it you
◼
►
asked for something Brady and to quote
◼
►
Henry is cool one on iTunes yep five
◼
►
stars for Brady so he looks more popular
◼
►
I appreciate the five stars yeah we have
◼
►
a ton of reviews they're very fun to
◼
►
read through and there was a very
◼
►
consistent theme through all of them
◼
►
have a hello internet reviewed numbers
◼
►
going like up high enough you know has
◼
►
there been a noticeable bump well I mean
◼
►
Brady we're trying to quench your thirst
◼
►
for recognition we're trying to feed
◼
►
your Hannity here I guess the question
◼
►
really it's not for me to answer if the
◼
►
reviews are enough I don't know if there
◼
►
is any number of reviews that will be
◼
►
enough for you look great I will go
◼
►
along with being stitched up like this
◼
►
and you know because I deserve oh yes
◼
►
yes dude stuff I'm pulling this just out
◼
►
of the air I'm making up things but if
◼
►
they put it in the right context like I
◼
►
didn't know the number right I don't
◼
►
know the number now it occurred to me
◼
►
that if anyone ever goes
◼
►
and looks checks will we look like we
◼
►
know what we're doing right without even
◼
►
having looked myself I just said if you
◼
►
haven't left a review go and do it
◼
►
because it'll look good for us like I'm
◼
►
not there like sitting there watching a
◼
►
counter and like keeping a notebook of
◼
►
the scores and ringing people up and
◼
►
saying have you looked at my reviews
◼
►
right it just occurred to me right not
◼
►
like the Radio Times contest right where
◼
►
that was occurring right no this is
◼
►
totally different that kind of got a bit
◼
►
out of control but I don't think that
◼
►
was my fault either that was a perfect
◼
►
storm that was nobody's fault I mean you
◼
►
can say what you want Brady
◼
►
but according to Raven ho 27 Brady's
◼
►
vanity knows no bounds five stars
◼
►
I'm just telling you what I'm reading
◼
►
here in black and white so when we were
◼
►
having the discussion last time there
◼
►
was a thing which I did not realize
◼
►
which is that iTunes does the counting
◼
►
of reviews separately for every country
◼
►
or I feel like that's a bit of a strange
◼
►
decision to make I don't quite
◼
►
understand why iTunes would say that Oh
◼
►
UK reviews are going to be in a
◼
►
different group than us reviews I don't
◼
►
quite understand that they do that
◼
►
across the whole platform great cuz when
◼
►
I go and look at what the top podcasts
◼
►
are it's always like 95,000 BBC podcasts
◼
►
which I'll come to in another episode
◼
►
sometime because I have thoughts about
◼
►
that and then there's like a couple of
◼
►
American ones and then that's it it's
◼
►
like does anyone else in the world make
◼
►
podcasts other than the baby say whereas
◼
►
I'm sure in America it's not completely
◼
►
dominated by the baby season I can get
◼
►
behind the idea of regional
◼
►
recommendations waiting a bit of white
◼
►
yeah a bit of waiting so when we were
◼
►
talking about having whatever it was
◼
►
like 600 views I think we were both
◼
►
looking at the iTunes U K store and so
◼
►
we're now closing in on like 1,100 of
◼
►
views on the U case or the US store
◼
►
though as you might imagine that's where
◼
►
the big explosion occurred because it
◼
►
seems like most of our listeners are in
◼
►
America or at least the plurality of
◼
►
listeners are in America and we went
◼
►
from something like I think it was
◼
►
somewhere like 2000 reviews to 4333
◼
►
reviews on the US store I feel like
◼
►
that's quite a bump it's such a bump
◼
►
while I am making fun of you for your
◼
►
vanity that bump makes it feel like
◼
►
10,000 is within our grasp like it's a
◼
►
thing that is possible
◼
►
Harry's : for the numbers now hey I'm
◼
►
just saying look before it never really
◼
►
crossed my mind but now it's like oh I
◼
►
can see it on the horizon it's not close
◼
►
but it's within our grasp Brady so I'm
◼
►
looking at this 4,000 number and I am
◼
►
finding myself thinking this needs to
◼
►
get to 10,000 I said 10,000 as a joke
◼
►
but it's a joke that has lodged itself
◼
►
in my mind so I can see that like we're
◼
►
close there we're close I would be
◼
►
willing to bet if you summed up all of
◼
►
the different country stores we actually
◼
►
probably do have 10,000 are pretty close
◼
►
to 10,000 but I feel like that doesn't
◼
►
count if your wife's friends
◼
►
acquaintances are looking up the show
◼
►
they're not going to sum it up that's
◼
►
not how that works I would love to see
◼
►
it actually hit 10,000 on at least one
◼
►
of the stores probably the US store I
◼
►
feel like right if we can get to 10,000
◼
►
in the UK it'll be like we've cracked
◼
►
America that's like every overseas
◼
►
entertainers dream isn't it you know
◼
►
yeah sure we've done well here in the
◼
►
colonies in that but if we can crack
◼
►
America we can make it anywhere
◼
►
meanwhile we have eight reviews in the
◼
►
I'll take her I'll take the I hope we're
◼
►
doing well in the pollen I hope you have
◼
►
a high five star rating over there I was
◼
►
making that up I haven't like set up a
◼
►
VPN hidden the poll to see what I mean
◼
►
great lady you can on iTunes you can
◼
►
scroll down to the very bottom and click
◼
►
the little flag and then you can switch
◼
►
to a different country to try to see how
◼
►
you're doing in different spots all
◼
►
right but anyway so yes I have found it
◼
►
interesting the reviews make me laugh
◼
►
people are always funny on the internet
◼
►
but aside from the reviews mocking your
◼
►
vanity there was also a very consistent
◼
►
theme which is people saying like I love
◼
►
this podcast but it's really hard to
◼
►
describe why I have no ability to
◼
►
describe why I like the show and why I
◼
►
listen to it but I really like it five
◼
►
stars so I enjoyed those as well I
◼
►
sympathize with you people because I
◼
►
have the same problem every time I tell
◼
►
someone I'd do a podcast oh I do a
◼
►
podcast oh what's a code and then I've
◼
►
got a let's say hello internet which I'm
◼
►
a bit embarrassed about and they like
◼
►
are really oh what's that about and then
◼
►
it's kind of like nerdy stuff and flags
◼
►
I feel like we've lured a lot of like
◼
►
vexillology people in under false
◼
►
pretenses and we haven't been delivering
◼
►
lately I think we need a flag bonanza
◼
►
sometime soon I'll see what we can do
◼
►
there but in the meantime I couldn't
◼
►
help but check and just load it up in
◼
►
Nepal store yeah all right what are we
◼
►
I'm gonna go with two you are exactly
◼
►
right two reviews in the fall but the
◼
►
store is listing us as not having
◼
►
received enough ratings to display an
◼
►
average for this podcast so get on it
◼
►
Nepalese did they write anything one
◼
►
review is from Nepal and then they put
◼
►
which I feel like is his on point not
◼
►
realizing that their review would only
◼
►
be displayed in Nepal Nepal we need to
◼
►
let's aim for a target in Nepal of eight
◼
►
thousand eight hundred years because
◼
►
there's the high of Mount Everest in
◼
►
meters I can't any think we're gonna get
◼
►
past 29,000 which would be in fate for
◼
►
it now Freddie that's that's insanity
◼
►
don't ask for unreasonable goals don't
◼
►
just the reasonable goals the reason
◼
►
we're goals on the horizon so close the
◼
►
last time Brady we were discussing the
◼
►
airline safety videos and since that
◼
►
episode went up I discovered that it is
◼
►
still Comic Relief season in British
◼
►
Airways comic relief meaning they're
◼
►
taking a break from anything funny I got
◼
►
to see the video twice the space of like
◼
►
eight hours because I ended up flying
◼
►
out to the continent and back on the
◼
►
same day and I was like oh my god I
◼
►
can't believe I can't believe this like
◼
►
and as I oh god it's so awful I took a
◼
►
little video I put up on Twitter Comic
◼
►
Relief season maybe it never ends well
◼
►
it's not even Comic Relief year this
◼
►
year so they're clearly not bounded by
◼
►
any season here they're just going for I
◼
►
really resent that video as like the
◼
►
kids and watching it anymore but anyway
◼
►
the biggest universal piece of feedback
◼
►
that I received from people is hey why
◼
►
are you watching this anyway why don't
◼
►
you just put on your headphones like a
◼
►
normal person and not not paying
◼
►
attention to this hmm you know what
◼
►
that's an excellent point this is
◼
►
one of these moments where I realized
◼
►
that there is something that I have not
◼
►
really weighted in my life which is as I
◼
►
have mentioned on the show my mom was a
◼
►
flight attendant for many many many
◼
►
years and like because of that I always
◼
►
felt like when the flight attendants are
◼
►
doing the safety demonstration you
◼
►
should pay attention because it's rude
◼
►
not to pay attention I also feel like I
◼
►
something I could be told off for like
◼
►
because being at airports and Airlines
◼
►
is always a time of like we've talked
◼
►
about before you're like hyper
◼
►
conscientious mmm you answer all the
◼
►
questions you know how have you did you
◼
►
pack any scissors no I didn't you were
◼
►
very deliberate yeah and I feel like if
◼
►
I don't watch the safety video I'm doing
◼
►
something wrong and they could like
◼
►
throw me off the plane or or worse yet
◼
►
tell me off in front of other people hmm
◼
►
so I feel like I kind of deliberately
◼
►
would take off my headphones and watch
◼
►
the video just to be like bit of a goody
◼
►
two-shoes and show you the it fly
◼
►
attendants that yes I'm doing what I'm
◼
►
supposed to do I'm a good person yeah
◼
►
there is definitely a part of that
◼
►
there's like such a different mindset
◼
►
when you're at airports and when you're
◼
►
flying it's like you're a different
◼
►
any other there is a deliberateness and
◼
►
showing that like I'm a person who's
◼
►
paying attention yeah you want to be
◼
►
sane to do the right thing right I'm in
◼
►
the exit row and I'm not a person that
◼
►
you have to worry about flight attendant
◼
►
I'm a reasonable person I'm not gonna
◼
►
cause any problems here I also realized
◼
►
that a transfer had happened in my mind
◼
►
that when I was a kid and growing up and
◼
►
if I was on an airplane with my parents
◼
►
you know my mom would like we take out
◼
►
the safety card and she look we know
◼
►
let's look at where the exits are let's
◼
►
make sure you recognize visually where
◼
►
the exits are because as she used to
◼
►
always say if you like if this plane is
◼
►
going down my son is going to survive
◼
►
right he's gonna know where the exits
◼
►
are he's gonna get out of this and it's
◼
►
like okay yeah now if the planes going
◼
►
down I'm gonna make sure I'm not one of
◼
►
the people who dies on this plane and
◼
►
then that's also just paying attention
◼
►
to the flight attendants during the
◼
►
safety demonstration but they were
◼
►
always people when I was a kid and I
◼
►
never really thought about it but there
◼
►
has been this very slow very gradual
◼
►
transition over time too
◼
►
the frequency of getting a safety
◼
►
demonstration from an actual human going
◼
►
down and the probability of watching a
◼
►
video going up even on relatively small
◼
►
planes where it's been the longer
◼
►
holdout that there's a person doing the
◼
►
safety demonstration even on the smaller
◼
►
planes now it's very very likely that
◼
►
you're going to be watching an actual
◼
►
video and somehow this transition
◼
►
happened so slowly and gradually that I
◼
►
feel like the respect that I felt I
◼
►
needed to accord a human being
◼
►
transferred to the machine that's just
◼
►
showing me this stupid comedy video
◼
►
that's why the safety videos have
◼
►
bothered me is because I've always felt
◼
►
like I need to watch this out of some
◼
►
kind of respect but I don't think I do
◼
►
especially not if they're going to be
◼
►
propagandizing me with ten thousand
◼
►
viewings of the same unfunny thing I
◼
►
feel like you know what safety video
◼
►
that doesn't have specifics about this
◼
►
airplane anyway I don't need to watch
◼
►
you I don't need to pay attention and I
◼
►
think if the flight attendant is just
◼
►
going to think worse of me because I put
◼
►
my headphones on when I don't want to
◼
►
watch the safety video I think I'm just
◼
►
gonna eat that in terms of social
◼
►
respectability I think that's that's
◼
►
what's gonna happen going forward that
◼
►
observation you makes interesting though
◼
►
isn't it because even when they show
◼
►
safety videos now on most of the planes
◼
►
I've been on the flight attendants will
◼
►
still sort of stand in the corridor and
◼
►
they might wave their arms once or twice
◼
►
in the general direction of an excerpt
◼
►
but they always seem to be sort of
◼
►
standing there unnecessarily
◼
►
maybe that's why they're standing there
◼
►
because they're tapping into that old
◼
►
emotion that if someone's standing there
◼
►
like if they're making the effort you
◼
►
have to make the effort and if they just
◼
►
went about their business and made
◼
►
coffee and sat down and you know checked
◼
►
their hair in the mirror you wouldn't
◼
►
watch the video but because they are
◼
►
standing there and they're making the
◼
►
effort you make the effort
◼
►
it's probably like a rule I bet that
◼
►
they do have to stand there even then
◼
►
the number of things that the flight
◼
►
attendants are actually doing has
◼
►
dramatically decreased oh yeah or maybe
◼
►
the one of their jobs is to make sure
◼
►
people are watching and that's a good
◼
►
place to do it from that's why they
◼
►
stand there they must have to stand
◼
►
there for a reason I mean the reason is
◼
►
not to tell off people with headphones
◼
►
on because they certainly don't then I'm
◼
►
the only sucker sitting there watching
◼
►
the safety video and thinking how God
◼
►
not again don't make me watch the joke
◼
►
belt one more time they don't tell you
◼
►
off if you're wearing your headphones so
◼
►
I don't know what you're listening to
◼
►
you could be listening to that too yes
◼
►
I'm sure that's what I'm doing as I'm
◼
►
looking at my iPad with my headphones on
◼
►
and clearly writing stuff on the screen
◼
►
oh yes I'm I'm making notes on the
◼
►
safety video that's that's what I'm
◼
►
doing right now I'm certainly not doing
◼
►
my crash notes I do just want to be
◼
►
clear though that even though I am going
◼
►
to pay less attention to the safety
◼
►
videos in the future I reserve the right
◼
►
to complain about safety videos in the
◼
►
future oh yeah reserving the right to
◼
►
complain is like the hello Internet my
◼
►
motto yeah this is the hello Internet
◼
►
subtitle well it sounds like it's time
◼
►
to talk about spy sex then hello
◼
►
if you're someone who bills by the hour
◼
►
you're going to need our neck sponsor
◼
►
how much of your life do you lose by
◼
►
completing annoying paperwork in admin
◼
►
tasks what happens when you add that up
◼
►
over a month or a year FreshBooks
◼
►
reckons that you could claw back as many
◼
►
as a hundred and ninety two hours per
◼
►
year by using their ridiculously easy to
◼
►
use cloud accounting software here's how
◼
►
it takes about 30 seconds to create and
◼
►
send a perfectly formatted invoice in
◼
►
literally two clicks with fresh books
◼
►
you can set it up yourself to receive
◼
►
payments online which means no more
◼
►
trips to the ATM to deposit a client's
◼
►
cheque FreshBooks also lets you take
◼
►
pictures of your receipts with your
◼
►
phone to make claiming expenses a
◼
►
I've sent invoices out with fresh books
◼
►
and let me tell you his way easier than
◼
►
trying to do it yourself that's the kind
◼
►
of task that I just hate it's fiddly and
◼
►
important yet somehow I can't quite get
◼
►
my brain to focus on it fully
◼
►
I'm sure if you send out invoices you
◼
►
know that feeling like it's the most
◼
►
important thing that you can do but it's
◼
►
also just a task that you kind of never
◼
►
want to do fresh books just makes it
◼
►
easier and helps you get paid as fast as
◼
►
possible so take back your 192 hours a
◼
►
year that's 16 hours a month by using
◼
►
fresh books to try fresh books for an
◼
►
unrestricted 30-day free trial goat
◼
►
to FreshBooks calm /hello and enter
◼
►
hello in the how did you hear about a
◼
►
section that's fresh books calm slash
◼
►
hello and enter hello in the how did you
◼
►
hear about a section thanks to fresh
◼
►
books for supporting the show and for
◼
►
saving freelancers so much time I'm so
◼
►
not looking forward to this
◼
►
why not breathing because although I
◼
►
will battle on and will not cave to the
◼
►
cheer pressure mm-hmm I know I'm gonna
◼
►
get okay you know you're waiting in to a
◼
►
forest of to your pressure I know how
◼
►
people feel about SpaceX and they're
◼
►
starting to not like if I say anything
◼
►
negative more than they used to so just
◼
►
to put it in context at the time of
◼
►
recording it's just a day actually I
◼
►
think since SpaceX had this historic
◼
►
historic moment for the company where
◼
►
they did their first launch of the
◼
►
so-called Falcon Heavy which is the more
◼
►
powerful rocket which can throw things
◼
►
further out into space and it's a big
◼
►
milestone in the efforts to you know get
◼
►
to Mars because you're going to need
◼
►
these bigger rockets to get beyond Earth
◼
►
orbit yeah my understanding is that this
◼
►
is like a cargo rocket that's the idea
◼
►
of it is it's it's for transporting a
◼
►
non-trivial amount of stuff into space
◼
►
yeah I imagine it what can also probably
◼
►
transport manned craft I don't know
◼
►
where exactly where that's heading but
◼
►
what they had in at this time of course
◼
►
was this Tesla Roadster car which
◼
►
resulted in quite a substantial amount
◼
►
of publicity they used Elon Musk's red
◼
►
car with a mannequin astronaut at the
◼
►
wheel as like their test payload mm-hmm
◼
►
and it was all very successful so how am
◼
►
I gonna do this gray do I get my gripes
◼
►
out the way first or do i do them last
◼
►
or do we go chronological or oh I wasn't
◼
►
going to watch this live I was aware it
◼
►
was happening because of Twitter but I
◼
►
was not paying much attention and I
◼
►
actually got a phone call from Duke of
◼
►
Venezuela and he said are you watching
◼
►
are you gonna watch it so I said alright
◼
►
I'll watch oh and I watched him he
◼
►
didn't call me no I totally missed out
◼
►
on this because I was busy watching a
◼
►
chick flick at the time I really didn't
◼
►
have any idea well I was in the bath
◼
►
when he code so I can top that
◼
►
by anyway so I watched up I watched the
◼
►
livestream along with all the other
◼
►
SpaceX diehards and the rest of the
◼
►
world and so I'm willing to talk about
◼
►
on hello Internet if you were because
◼
►
you have watched as well now gray at my
◼
►
request haven't you but lately it's been
◼
►
a very busy week but yes you sent me the
◼
►
video you told me the relevant sections
◼
►
to watch and so I I have seen the the
◼
►
take off to reveal and the landing part
◼
►
of the of the launch mera yet so let me
◼
►
say when people criticize things that
◼
►
doesn't mean they don't necessarily like
◼
►
it gray and I criticize Star Wars all
◼
►
day long but where Star Wars fans mm-hmm
◼
►
so just because I say negative things
◼
►
you know that just happens you know
◼
►
that's just part of being a critic right
◼
►
which is what we sometimes do but my
◼
►
overall feeling watching the launch was
◼
►
one of very great excitement more than I
◼
►
would have expected partly maybe because
◼
►
it was live and I knew you know
◼
►
something could go wrong and I felt
◼
►
myself really really hoping nothing
◼
►
would go wrong mm-hmm
◼
►
which is you know nice in itself and
◼
►
also for the first time I was sort of
◼
►
thinking do you know what we might
◼
►
actually go like to Mars and stuff while
◼
►
I'm still alive that's a very exciting
◼
►
feeling mm-hmm so I was very excited by
◼
►
it I thought it it looked fantastic
◼
►
they're getting so good at covering
◼
►
these things now and coverage has
◼
►
improved so much that of course it's
◼
►
gonna look fantastic but you know the
◼
►
shots were good and the tracking shots
◼
►
were good the landing of the two
◼
►
boosters when they came back down like
◼
►
in sync and landed was remarkable I
◼
►
don't think that will ever get old the
◼
►
sight of those boosters landing like a
◼
►
couple of newborn giraffes trying to
◼
►
walk on ice and you think surely those
◼
►
things are gonna fall over and they
◼
►
stuck it which was amazing I know the
◼
►
one out to sea had a big smash and
◼
►
didn't land properly but I think that is
◼
►
a fantastic looking thing and I think
◼
►
that's becoming the new kind of iconic
◼
►
image of launchers like in the days of
◼
►
Saturn the iconic shot was always you
◼
►
know that one with us like a camera on
◼
►
the on the gantry and you're really
◼
►
close to the rocket and you'd always see
◼
►
the fire and the ice falling off and
◼
►
you'd see us a go past I know the exact
◼
►
you're talking about that is that that
◼
►
is the iconic we're flying in a space
◼
►
yeah funnily enough I think the iconic
◼
►
shot now is those are those boosters
◼
►
landing which is funny because it's not
◼
►
the launch but I agree that that is
◼
►
really impressive and it's way more
◼
►
impressive than the launch yeah I found
◼
►
watching the launch much more
◼
►
interesting than I expected
◼
►
it's one of those things where I don't
◼
►
really have any sense of scale like I
◼
►
don't actually understand what is the
◼
►
size of this compared to like a Saturn 5
◼
►
rocket I don't understand but on the
◼
►
video it just looks huge and it looks
◼
►
powerful with all of those boosters it
◼
►
should look like a hell of a thing
◼
►
taking off but I would say watching the
◼
►
two boosters then return to Earth and
◼
►
land vertically simultaneously I mean it
◼
►
literally gave me chills I thought like
◼
►
that is just such a crazy technological
◼
►
achievement that it's it's just
◼
►
obviously the launch of the payload is
◼
►
the part that really matters here but
◼
►
the booster landing is incredible and
◼
►
it's it's a thing that in our previous
◼
►
conversations about SpaceX I feel like I
◼
►
didn't really understand at that point
◼
►
in time and this one was like wow that
◼
►
is amazing to see I don't get all
◼
►
excited about it because I think oh wow
◼
►
this is gonna make space travel cheaper
◼
►
like that's just boring accounting the
◼
►
thing that about it that I'm amazed by
◼
►
is just how awesome it looks like it
◼
►
just looks like made up so good on them
◼
►
but just one last thing about the launch
◼
►
and the coverage of the launch that I
◼
►
watched and this is where I will upset
◼
►
the editorial decision that was made to
◼
►
give so much prominence to the cheering
◼
►
and hollering of the SpaceX employees
◼
►
who were watching this happen which made
◼
►
it feel more like a sporting event than
◼
►
a scientific moment or an engineering
◼
►
moment and I'm not opposed to them
◼
►
getting excited and cheering and like a
◼
►
lot of people said to me ah it added to
◼
►
the drama and I think a little bit of it
◼
►
maybe would have added to the drama
◼
►
cutting to them occasionally or showing
◼
►
them but I thought it was
◼
►
too much for me it was laid on too thick
◼
►
they were carrying on like a bunch of
◼
►
frat boys and from the shots they showed
◼
►
they were mainly boys so I don't feel
◼
►
bad saying that they were carrying on
◼
►
like pork chops at one point I heard
◼
►
them go spook spook spooks like they
◼
►
were superbowl people drinking from a
◼
►
keg before the game for me it was like
◼
►
it trampled all over the moment and it
◼
►
wasn't like a bit of like controlled
◼
►
excitement where the cool heads of the
◼
►
of the engineers were saying come on
◼
►
everyone let's come down I know you're
◼
►
excited but this is like this is serious
◼
►
it was just like hollering and whooping
◼
►
and no I thought it was too much and it
◼
►
was an editorial decision because they
◼
►
deliberately injected it all the way
◼
►
through and they were cheering for every
◼
►
single step that happened which you know
◼
►
because they're engineers I get that
◼
►
they're excited and each step was
◼
►
another milestone for them okay we've
◼
►
now gone to full electronic control
◼
►
inside the rocket like come on man this
◼
►
is like this is undignified
◼
►
you're such a party pooper I'm not
◼
►
objecting to their excitement and a
◼
►
little bit of it it was very American
◼
►
and it trampled all over the moment for
◼
►
me and I know how much that upsets
◼
►
people because it's all about the
◼
►
employees and they had their names
◼
►
written on the on the rocket and they're
◼
►
the heroes of the day but I don't think
◼
►
it was done with a very good Sensibility
◼
►
I also would love to know where their
◼
►
contingency was if the rocket had blown
◼
►
up like were they going to cut that fade
◼
►
or were they still going to show those
◼
►
people then fall in a heap I'd love to
◼
►
know what the plan was but we'll never
◼
►
know because thankfully it didn't blow
◼
►
up yes thankfully it didn't blow up
◼
►
Brady you like space exploration much
◼
►
better when it's boring guys and ties in
◼
►
Houston not finding a proxy nuclear war
◼
►
with the Soviet Union oh well I mean
◼
►
obviously I'm a real fan of it but like
◼
►
I love the dignity of then they were
◼
►
bottling it up because they knew they
◼
►
had a job to do and when they got
◼
►
excited they be told hang on don't be
◼
►
excited there's more to come come on
◼
►
well we're professionals we're
◼
►
scientists were engineers we know the
◼
►
risks here and I know these people
◼
►
weren't like on shift
◼
►
I was gonna say I don't think this was
◼
►
like the people in the night crew yeah
◼
►
bunch of people who were standing around
◼
►
like it looked like engineers who had
◼
►
worked on the thing yeah and and it's
◼
►
great that they were made so much a part
◼
►
of it I just thought I don't know they
◼
►
were turned up to lay out they was laid
◼
►
on too thick and it was a bit like can
◼
►
everyone just shut up for a minute I'm
◼
►
trying to hear what's going on and like
◼
►
I don't think they got the balance right
◼
►
of that part of the broadcast and here
◼
►
we're just talking about cosmetics of
◼
►
course this is just the broadcast this
◼
►
has got nothing to do with the
◼
►
accomplishment or the fate and yes I
◼
►
know they're happy and I know they're
◼
►
proud and I know they're responsible and
◼
►
I know all that stuff but I'm not the
◼
►
only one who thought that by the way
◼
►
what did you think you watched it what
◼
►
did you think I'm laughing because I had
◼
►
a bit of a different reaction I was
◼
►
aware that there was a ton of cheering
◼
►
and that's obviously like an editorial
◼
►
I didn't mind because I do think it
◼
►
makes it more exciting to watch than if
◼
►
they just had the audio feed from
◼
►
Mission Control and you were hearing the
◼
►
the people who were actually working
◼
►
just saying whatever they need to say
◼
►
sort of like when we when we've
◼
►
discussed the audio logs from plane
◼
►
crashes I'm always struck by how
◼
►
professional those recordings are and
◼
►
how calm the pilots are under
◼
►
circumstances where I would be screaming
◼
►
and they're just like we're reporting
◼
►
the second engine is out on the
◼
►
right-hand side it's like oh my god dude
◼
►
but that's what you need when it's a
◼
►
professional environment right I want a
◼
►
playlist who's able to just do that
◼
►
because it is like keep it together man
◼
►
I'm fine with the yelling in the
◼
►
excitement because part of what SpaceX
◼
►
is doing here is almost like a
◼
►
recruitment video for like future
◼
►
engineers for working at SpaceX like you
◼
►
want a thing that's exciting so I
◼
►
totally get that at one point they had
◼
►
two commentators who just start talking
◼
►
and then for me that's where am I think
◼
►
like stop talking comment are you
◼
►
talking over the thing like I don't want
◼
►
to hear it whatever user just show me
◼
►
the feet I can see it on the screen I
◼
►
don't need to talking heads telling me
◼
►
that I'm looking at a rocket going into
◼
►
space like obviously they turned it into
◼
►
a sports coverage I have the hollering
◼
►
you know frat boys they've got the
◼
►
glitzy good-looking young commentators
◼
►
who are sitting there at the day
◼
►
giving us some punditry and filling time
◼
►
and that they're turning until uh yeah
◼
►
it's the Superbowl of space the thing
◼
►
that it made me think of it's like this
◼
►
is an old rage comic which I wonder if
◼
►
anybody can find on the internet it's
◼
►
forever old but it always made me laugh
◼
►
so hard and it was a comic that somebody
◼
►
made when the Royal Wedding happened
◼
►
years ago and it shows that like a guy
◼
►
who's sitting at home who doesn't really
◼
►
care about the Royal Wedding and he just
◼
►
turns it on and he's watching it he
◼
►
starts getting more and more into the
◼
►
and then Katie Couric is doing the
◼
►
narration about what's happening on the
◼
►
wedding and like the caption has like
◼
►
shut the fuck up Katie Couric I just
◼
►
want to watch as pretty princess getting
◼
►
married that was kind of my feeling with
◼
►
the space launch is like when the two
◼
►
commentators start talking is like shut
◼
►
the fuck up I just want to watch the
◼
►
rocket I don't really want to hear your
◼
►
comments on this so that's where it
◼
►
bothered me more is like the words but
◼
►
the cheering I don't know personally I
◼
►
can see why some people might think it
◼
►
was a bit much because it was a lot but
◼
►
the cheering I was okay with I think it
◼
►
made it more exciting to watch so I
◼
►
can't get with you on this one I would
◼
►
have cut to the cheering mm-hmm as it
◼
►
lifted off the pad mm-hmm but all the
◼
►
other cheering throughout the whole
◼
►
process from like three or four minutes
◼
►
before to five minutes after it just
◼
►
been little de Anna you know what it did
◼
►
make it more exciting
◼
►
but open-heart surgery would be more
◼
►
exciting if you had a thousand people
◼
►
cheering as it happened it doesn't mean
◼
►
it's like appropriate that's not what
◼
►
was really going on the people who are
◼
►
making this happened well I just I don't
◼
►
know I like the image in my head of
◼
►
broadcaster Brady who's managing all the
◼
►
live streams for SpaceX and the Rockets
◼
►
going up you have your hand on the dial
◼
►
for how much crowd cheering we can hear
◼
►
and you turn it up as the rocket goes up
◼
►
you give it a second dip and then Brady
◼
►
turns it down that's enough of that
◼
►
people just turns it and I would have
◼
►
had okay now's a good time cut to the
◼
►
frat boys let's see them jumping up and
◼
►
down give them a few seconds well
◼
►
include er include them as part of it
◼
►
but it just overwhelmed it anyway
◼
►
obviously obviously I'm in the minority
◼
►
here and so be it let's get to the
◼
►
business of the car in space okay all
◼
►
right so to the final stage we had
◼
►
bolted this Tesla Roadster
◼
►
which I didn't realize of course I
◼
►
should have realized cuz of course it
◼
►
always has to be this way was going to
◼
►
like do some laps of the earth before it
◼
►
got flung out into the far reaches of
◼
►
the solar system mm-hmm and I have a few
◼
►
thoughts about it but the first thing I
◼
►
have to say is I was not prepared for
◼
►
how awesome it would look like when they
◼
►
started cutting to those shots and you
◼
►
had the live stream of it and like the
◼
►
thing was just slowly rotating and the
◼
►
earth was just like creeping into shock
◼
►
spaceman star man in the red car it was
◼
►
like I couldn't stop looking at it and I
◼
►
was like like I had to show people I
◼
►
would like say to my wife oh my goodness
◼
►
you just have to look at this and I'd be
◼
►
watching her and she'd be like yeah okay
◼
►
I've seen it but like I found it
◼
►
completely hypnotic artistically it was
◼
►
like it looked impressive yeah I'll
◼
►
completely agree with you there this is
◼
►
how I was aware the event occurred
◼
►
because when I was done watching my
◼
►
chick flick and I've turned on Twitter
◼
►
realize like what are all these pictures
◼
►
is from space of this car like I had a
◼
►
weird experience of the pictures look so
◼
►
in some sense so strange like I had a
◼
►
very hard time understanding out of
◼
►
context what is this actually a
◼
►
photograph of and so I had to do a
◼
►
little bit of digging around about like
◼
►
what does this situation actually look
◼
►
like not just from the the camera that's
◼
►
on the the front of this car like what
◼
►
is what is the actual situation that I'm
◼
►
looking at but the pictures themselves
◼
►
they're very impressive but there's
◼
►
almost like sort of like the Maryland
◼
►
point where a photo can become so
◼
►
impressive it becomes unreal looking
◼
►
like I have a hard time looking at those
◼
►
photos and thinking of them as real even
◼
►
though I know they are it's just like
◼
►
I'm looking at a car floating above the
◼
►
earth my brain does not process this as
◼
►
a real image it looks very strange so
◼
►
should they have sent a car to space or
◼
►
not yeah of course why not
◼
►
what can be the reason to not do well
◼
►
here's what I think about it it looked
◼
►
amazing as like an artistic project as a
◼
►
piece of art I think that warrants it
◼
►
like it just you know sometimes you have
◼
►
sometimes you just have to do something
◼
►
because it's fun and a bit crazy hmm
◼
►
and I think that completely justifies it
◼
►
and I think you know and whether or not
◼
►
they sent up sculpture or a bright red
◼
►
car with the with an astronaut the wheel
◼
►
which was a bit more funny or whatever
◼
►
they decided to send up okay they they
◼
►
decided to make it an artistic project
◼
►
the main argument that burns on the
◼
►
internet about this was if they're going
◼
►
to spend all that money could they have
◼
►
used a payload that had a bit more
◼
►
scientific value like they didn't want
◼
►
to risk some billion-dollar satellite
◼
►
but could they have sent something up
◼
►
that was like more useful and that's
◼
►
like you know I think your position
◼
►
that's clear from your noise I
◼
►
understand the reason why people want to
◼
►
yeah but they that road never ends okay
◼
►
well you could always in theory spend
◼
►
more money in a more practical way
◼
►
there's a never a time that is not true
◼
►
that argument on its own I find never
◼
►
convincing oh this money could have been
◼
►
spent in a more effective way of course
◼
►
all money that could be true so I just
◼
►
don't find that interesting I agree with
◼
►
you and I think doing something artistic
◼
►
and fun is good mm-hmm
◼
►
here's the one problem I have with it
◼
►
though and that is the muddy water that
◼
►
is created by the commercial aspect of
◼
►
it because ela must run SpaceX and he's
◼
►
got grand plans for it he also runs
◼
►
Tesla which is you know losing a bit of
◼
►
money at the moment and they're trying
◼
►
to make a successful business out of it
◼
►
this was fantastic publicity and
◼
►
promotion for the Tesla company and I
◼
►
think that's where it starts getting a
◼
►
bit blurrier between doing something for
◼
►
fun and something artistic that just
◼
►
tickled the world and inspired people
◼
►
which is what it did without question
◼
►
it's a very inspiring thing to do and a
◼
►
very viral thing to do and in fairness
◼
►
to Tesla and Elon Musk I do think they
◼
►
showed restraint you know they didn't
◼
►
have big bright Tesla signs everywhere
◼
►
and make it look too commercial I think
◼
►
they showed a lot of dignity in that
◼
►
respect the dashboard said don't panic
◼
►
it didn't say for 25 percent off your
◼
►
next Tesla offer code spaceman right at
◼
►
your local dealer right looks like
◼
►
that's not what they did
◼
►
so yeah there was not an overabundance
◼
►
of commercial this year exactly they did
◼
►
show restraint but I do think it is
◼
►
still a little bit muddy
◼
►
I mean he's you know they're paying for
◼
►
it themselves it's not I don't know how
◼
►
much taxpayer money went into this whole
◼
►
thing I don't know if they you know are
◼
►
paying the normal rates for the use of
◼
►
the NASA facilities or not but you know
◼
►
they're paying for it so to some extent
◼
►
I'm completely on board with them doing
◼
►
what they want with their rocket but you
◼
►
do know I worry about the
◼
►
commercialization of space and coca-cola
◼
►
billboards and things like that and this
◼
►
still was a little bit promotional and I
◼
►
think that's what left me with a little
◼
►
bit of unease about it like you can't
◼
►
just say ah I did this for fun because I
◼
►
thought it would be funny and I just
◼
►
needed some weight there's certainly a
◼
►
marketing and promotional agenda at play
◼
►
here that is legitimate and no one's
◼
►
breaking any rules or anything but it
◼
►
just feels a bit like okay yeah I
◼
►
selling a few cars while you're there
◼
►
are you mate okay so yeah I feel like I
◼
►
I don't understand the parameters of
◼
►
what you mean by muddied the only
◼
►
comparison I could think of here is like
◼
►
Steve Jobs being so involved in Pixar
◼
►
and Apple and so then you had like cross
◼
►
promotion between those companies but I
◼
►
feel like at least from what I have read
◼
►
about the greater musk Empire like the
◼
►
Solar City Tesla and SpaceX are
◼
►
companies that are sharing a lot of
◼
►
technology between them yeah so there's
◼
►
something to me that I just I do not
◼
►
think that these companies are as
◼
►
separate as normal companies would be so
◼
►
I guess I'm just I'm not quite
◼
►
understanding what you're saying money
◼
►
people complaining about a lack of
◼
►
quarantining between his different
◼
►
business is it more like the humanity
◼
►
star it's just the fact that there's
◼
►
like a tesla going around earth I feel
◼
►
like this was like a big milestone for
◼
►
space exploration certainly that's how
◼
►
it's been pitched and having a carrot
◼
►
virtus man bolted to the front of it
◼
►
feels like cheapening it a bit and by
◼
►
the way I'm also well aware that I wear
◼
►
an amiga watch that was the one they
◼
►
wore on the moon and all the marketing
◼
►
involved with it as well say like I'm
◼
►
aware this goes back to the days of NASA
◼
►
right this was a bit more overt
◼
►
obviously a bright red car with a
◼
►
mannequin at the steering wheel rather
◼
►
than oh we need a watch who are we gonna
◼
►
get out what just from it's certainly
◼
►
easier to spot on the live stream than
◼
►
the bridge I've watched the astronauts
◼
►
are wearing when they landed on the moon
◼
►
yes that's for sure it just felt
◼
►
promotional it's a bit like did you have
◼
►
to try and flog your cars at the same
◼
►
don't get me wrong I like the whimsy of
◼
►
it and like the fun of it and I'm
◼
►
totally on board with that and it
◼
►
totally worked on me it totally worked
◼
►
on me but at the same time I was
◼
►
thinking I yep pocketing a few extra
◼
►
yeah let's push the business it's like
◼
►
if you know when if Neil Armstrong and
◼
►
Buzz Aldrin went to the moon and they
◼
►
stuck a flag in the soil and it had the
◼
►
General Motors logo on it instead of
◼
►
America because General Motors had paid
◼
►
them you know five hundred million you'd
◼
►
be thinking man that was a pretty
◼
►
historic moment to be vlogging cars I
◼
►
think that there is something
◼
►
interesting about your thoughts here
◼
►
that I can't quite grasp why I don't
◼
►
agree with you on this and I think like
◼
►
so the General Motors one is an
◼
►
interesting comparison and it's like I
◼
►
agree under that circumstance if they
◼
►
got out and they put a GM flag on the
◼
►
moon because GM sponsored the NASA space
◼
►
flight it would feel like oh that's sad
◼
►
but I wouldn't feel that way if in an
◼
►
alternate universe of history the United
◼
►
States government wasn't actually the
◼
►
primary mover and the primary mover was
◼
►
GE like an n GE was the entity that was
◼
►
doing the space exploration in a much
◼
►
more direct way I guess this is partly
◼
►
like I don't really care what the entity
◼
►
is and in some ways like when NASA does
◼
►
a thing they're selling the idea that
◼
►
America has nuclear superiority during
◼
►
the Cold War and when SpaceX is doing a
◼
►
thing they are selling the idea of
◼
►
increased cargo capacity to space I
◼
►
don't see those things as wildly
◼
►
different I'll tell you where the
◼
►
problem comes from and I know there's a
◼
►
difference here between a businessman
◼
►
and a commercial entity and for example
◼
►
say governments and politicians right
◼
►
but people have a resist
◼
►
well some people have a resistance to
◼
►
people in positions of great power and
◼
►
authority using that to give themselves
◼
►
even more and the best example I could
◼
►
think of was say you elected a leader of
◼
►
a country you know you elected someone
◼
►
your president or prime minister and
◼
►
they happen to own a bunch of hotels or
◼
►
golf courses or something like that and
◼
►
when they became leader they started
◼
►
using all their facilities and their
◼
►
commercial interests in the duties of
◼
►
their political office you'd start to
◼
►
think hang on you're using that to your
◼
►
advantage to feather your own nest and
◼
►
like you shouldn't be leveraging that
◼
►
position of power yeah and I taught I
◼
►
totally agree with you that right like
◼
►
that's also a case but that seems much
◼
►
more like a like a conflict of interest
◼
►
yeah between the role of a civil servant
◼
►
and the role of a businessperson I said
◼
►
at the start I say a difference but he
◼
►
is leveraging a position of great brute
◼
►
force and power financial power and you
◼
►
know privilege and collaboration with
◼
►
the government and things that help
◼
►
SpaceX like the SpaceX has a lot of
◼
►
government contracts so he's like he's
◼
►
got into this position of great power
◼
►
and great influence and then bolting his
◼
►
car from his other company on the front
◼
►
fear was in this in a similar vein it's
◼
►
not the same but it feels in a similar
◼
►
vein it's like okay so you've built this
◼
►
rocket company and you're getting all
◼
►
these government contracts and you're
◼
►
like you're launching from a NASA
◼
►
facility and that and while you're there
◼
►
you're thinking oh let's Chuck a Tesla
◼
►
on the front as well because that will
◼
►
help my other business it's not the same
◼
►
mm-hmm I don't think he's done anything
◼
►
well I'm sure he hasn't done anything
◼
►
improper he wouldn't have been allowed
◼
►
to do it but it just has that feeling to
◼
►
it of I came I that's enough enough what
◼
►
else do you want to sell while you're at
◼
►
that's just a little feeling in the back
◼
►
of the head about it I did think it was
◼
►
cold though I did love it I did love it
◼
►
okay here's a question for you if we
◼
►
could go back in time and you're able to
◼
►
make the decision about what the payload
◼
►
should be would you change it would you
◼
►
say I think it would be better if it's
◼
►
not a Tesla if it's a different payload
◼
►
you know if the decision was totally
◼
►
down to you what's happening is like
◼
►
Elon Musk has brought you on and an
◼
►
advisor and he's saying I may have lost
◼
►
you Brady we all know from the podcast
◼
►
yeah you're hugely influential podcast
◼
►
that you are the number one fan of space
◼
►
what do you think we should do yeah I
◼
►
would say to him I think this is a good
◼
►
idea I think the visual of a cool sports
◼
►
car with an astronaut at the wheel will
◼
►
really capture people's imaginations but
◼
►
I think I mean he's in an impossible
◼
►
position that if you're gonna use a car
◼
►
cause he owns a car company but I would
◼
►
say to him is there something else that
◼
►
would have equal impact and be equally
◼
►
clever and funny that hasn't got such a
◼
►
direct attachment to you a because of
◼
►
the commercial appearance of it and
◼
►
because of maybe the slightly
◼
►
egotistical appearance of it I'd say to
◼
►
him I love the idea I probably wouldn't
◼
►
have said to him I love the idea because
◼
►
I was wrong I didn't realize how cold it
◼
►
would look but now that I do realize how
◼
►
cool yet in this scenario you are both
◼
►
future Brady who knows how it works and
◼
►
Asprey who's doing the advice right so
◼
►
my my advice with all this knowledge of
◼
►
hindsight would be brilliant idea it's
◼
►
gonna really capture people but do it in
◼
►
a way that makes you look a bit less
◼
►
egotistical in a way that looks less
◼
►
like you're trying to do something
◼
►
commercial is this something else is
◼
►
there another way we could do it and
◼
►
achieve all the same good things without
◼
►
that kind of akina's to it I don't know
◼
►
if I'd have that idea but that's what I
◼
►
say they're just listening to that all I
◼
►
can imagine is if I was the CEO of
◼
►
company and you were my advisor there
◼
►
I'd be coming like okay great but I'm
◼
►
really busy what is your suggestion if
◼
►
you don't have another suggestion we're
◼
►
going with this well I'd say can I have
◼
►
more than the 30 seconds that gray just
◼
►
gave me okay you can have until the next
◼
►
episode of hello internet that's how
◼
►
much time you I don't astok and that
◼
►
achiness like just to put things in the
◼
►
right context that achiness is less than
◼
►
how fantastic I thought it was like on
◼
►
the cosmic scales of this there is no
◼
►
doubt that launching a Tesla into space
◼
►
means that way more people watch this
◼
►
launch than ever would have yes I'm not
◼
►
convinced that this actually sells a lot
◼
►
of Tesla's but it's sure like I can
◼
►
guarantee that there's like increased
◼
►
the viewership of the livestream
◼
►
50% 60% I bet it is some enormous amount
◼
►
this is a concrete load because it just
◼
►
makes it such a thing and the subsequent
◼
►
coverage yeah I bet you're a hassle cars
◼
►
I know people that are looking at the
◼
►
cars now as a result and then also just
◼
►
increases like the brand awareness so
◼
►
which is also probably what the chief
◼
►
executive would have laughed me out of
◼
►
in the office when I went in there with
◼
►
mine is not a commercial Hey are you
◼
►
worried let's you work at a company
◼
►
you're in the wrong place but yeah the
◼
►
the showmanship of it was very good do
◼
►
you want to hear my idea okay what's
◼
►
your idea if we're gonna be a key in
◼
►
about money what do you think of this
◼
►
you know how I had that screen on it
◼
►
that said don't panic the display on the
◼
►
screen I'm assuming that wasn't actually
◼
►
being displayed on the screen and it was
◼
►
stuck on permanently like I don't know
◼
►
the answer to that but my address' is
◼
►
that that's like a piece of cardboard or
◼
►
something stuck on there with don't
◼
►
panic written on her but either way
◼
►
right if it is a functioning screen if
◼
►
they had some capability to change what
◼
►
was written on the screen and every
◼
►
second they could put another name on
◼
►
there CGP grey Brady Haran dirt from
◼
►
various table I'm Jane Smith Cyndi
◼
►
Lauper are cycling every second with the
◼
►
earth and the background that everything
◼
►
and a camera capturing it all and you
◼
►
could buy your name on that screen for a
◼
►
hundred bucks and you could screen grab
◼
►
the moment your name was on the screen
◼
►
in the car with the astronaut and the
◼
►
earth behind how many do Rick and they
◼
►
would have sold a million I mean they
◼
►
tell they'd sell a lot obviously you'd
◼
►
need an auction for that Brady you
◼
►
couldn't just have a flat price for that
◼
►
let's just say it's a hundred bucks H
◼
►
and they sold a million that make a
◼
►
hundred million bucks like this now it
◼
►
totally trips my like that's
◼
►
disgustingly commercial for you okay
◼
►
it's good to know where your line is
◼
►
yeah that's why I find this conversation
◼
►
interesting because it never really
◼
►
crossed my mind about the commercial
◼
►
nature of it and I feel like I don't
◼
►
feel that for this at all I think it's
◼
►
just cool but then it's like oh but if
◼
►
you are auctioning screen time with like
◼
►
now that cross was my boundary now it's
◼
►
too much that's completely what they did
◼
►
it's the only difference is they didn't
◼
►
auction it he just took it for himself
◼
►
and gave himself all the screen time
◼
►
gave his Carol the screen time it's
◼
►
exactly what happened yeah I don't know
◼
►
it just feels different this is what
◼
►
makes life interesting is it's
◼
►
fundamentally impossible to be perfectly
◼
►
consistent on all things like that way
◼
►
lies madness and in lots of these
◼
►
conversations you just have to think
◼
►
like why do I think that or like why
◼
►
does this feel different and sometimes
◼
►
there really isn't any answer I mean
◼
►
it's also my professional upbringing
◼
►
coming out here and I am aware of that I
◼
►
mean I worked for the BBC for a long
◼
►
time and the BBC is very sensitive to
◼
►
people exploiting its power for
◼
►
commercial purposes so if someone calls
◼
►
you up at the BBC as a journalist says
◼
►
I've got a great idea for a story it's
◼
►
about a new car I've made do you want to
◼
►
come and make a film about it you very
◼
►
quickly have to make editorial judgments
◼
►
versus commercial judgments and is this
◼
►
person just trying to use the power of
◼
►
the BBC to sell cars is this a
◼
►
legitimate story so I do have a very
◼
►
sensitive radar to this so I guess when
◼
►
I see it happening in the world and I
◼
►
see people using spotlights to sell
◼
►
things which is a perfectly fair thing
◼
►
to do and a very American thing to do
◼
►
I'm perhaps more sensitive to it and I
◼
►
think our you know everyone wants to
◼
►
make a buck any bit of spot light or
◼
►
camera time as a chance to make a buck I
◼
►
feel like this is the perfect time for a
◼
►
commercial break this episode of Hello
◼
►
Internet has been brought to you by
◼
►
now fractures this company you must know
◼
►
them by now where they will print your
◼
►
pictures on two bits of glass that you
◼
►
then hang on the wall they're ready to
◼
►
hang right out of the box this is the
◼
►
easiest thing in the world
◼
►
upload a picture to a website make a few
◼
►
little decisions press a button then in
◼
►
the post comes your box open the box
◼
►
bang on the wall before you know it
◼
►
fracture prints make thoughtful unique
◼
►
gifts whether for yourself or for
◼
►
someone else it's become one of my go to
◼
►
places whenever I have to give someone a
◼
►
present because who doesn't like
◼
►
receiving a picture it's something you
◼
►
can easily personalize it's always a
◼
►
thoughtful gift but it's always
◼
►
something that's really useful to
◼
►
everyone has room for more pictures in
◼
►
their house fractures are handmade in
◼
►
the Gainesville Florida
◼
►
frat tree from US sourced materials and
◼
►
these are sleek frameless designs and
◼
►
because they haven't got
◼
►
frame they'll go with pretty much any
◼
►
day core now obviously a real use for
◼
►
fracture is photos these days we take so
◼
►
many photos on our phones and other
◼
►
devices that never really see the light
◼
►
of day here's a chance to get your
◼
►
absolute best pictures the ones that
◼
►
usually are on your reserve for things
◼
►
like Instagram and actually have them on
◼
►
permanent display forever but one of my
◼
►
favorite use is a fracture and a thing I
◼
►
do a lot is actually upload pictures
◼
►
that aren't photos but maybe scans of
◼
►
like important documents like like a
◼
►
degree certificate or something like
◼
►
that you can give to someone else they
◼
►
can have on their wall or most recently
◼
►
I actually had a friend create bit of a
◼
►
work of art and they've got the original
◼
►
but they sent me a really really lovely
◼
►
high-res version of it that I'd like to
◼
►
have on the wall so what I'm doing is
◼
►
getting a fractured and I'll have my own
◼
►
brilliant copy already on a piece of
◼
►
glass or maybe get pictures from other
◼
►
sources for example NASA have loads of
◼
►
amazing Spacey pictures that are out
◼
►
there high-resolution in the public
◼
►
domain and if there's a real cracker why
◼
►
don't you get that put on a piece of
◼
►
glass and put up on the wall I remember
◼
►
years ago you used to pay a fortune for
◼
►
all these high quality pictures of
◼
►
galaxies or the moon or space
◼
►
exploration now you can have an awesome
◼
►
one on the wall at a super low price
◼
►
even lower if you go to fracture dot me
◼
►
and use the offer code
◼
►
hello fifteen when you check out that's
◼
►
going to give you fifteen percent off
◼
►
your first fracture order go to fracture
◼
►
dot me and then use the offer code hello
◼
►
fifteen and if you get the one question
◼
►
survey about podcasts make sure you pick
◼
►
hello Internet so they know you came
◼
►
from here our thanks to fracture for
◼
►
supporting this podcast and my personal
◼
►
thanks to fracture for getting me out of
◼
►
a few jams when it comes time for buying
◼
►
presents but but it's not over yet with
◼
►
SpaceX there's one last thing that Brady
◼
►
wants to talk about with this and what
◼
►
is that Brady well I have been unable to
◼
►
get the answer to this definitively and
◼
►
I think it's because basics are
◼
►
deliberately being obscure about it
◼
►
obviously the car was bolted on to the
◼
►
stage of the rocket it had to be be
◼
►
when it was going around the earth it
◼
►
still had to do another big blast off to
◼
►
start it's huge or but through the solar
◼
►
system out towards the asteroid belt but
◼
►
obviously all the camera angles were
◼
►
quite artfully cropped so that we never
◼
►
actually saw any part of like that stage
◼
►
really did we most of the angles the
◼
►
idea was to make it look like the car
◼
►
was on his own because that was a better
◼
►
shot and I'm alright with that you know
◼
►
that's just prettiness and now obviously
◼
►
it's done it's big burn and it's going
◼
►
out now towards the orbit of Mars and
◼
►
beyond as it starts this eternal loop
◼
►
around the solar system it hasn't been
◼
►
made entirely clear to me whether or not
◼
►
the car has been separated from the
◼
►
rocket after the rocket burn happened I
◼
►
suspect it hasn't been although if you
◼
►
look at the official Tesla animation of
◼
►
this whole thing the car is drifting on
◼
►
its own out towards Mars because that's
◼
►
like a beautiful thought isn't it that
◼
►
the cars driving on its own with David
◼
►
Bowie playing and things like that I
◼
►
don't know I don't know the answer yet
◼
►
it's interesting comparing how SpaceX
◼
►
treats this stuff compared to NASA I
◼
►
mean NASA drowns you in detail and tells
◼
►
you every single little thing that's
◼
►
happening to the point that it's almost
◼
►
overwhelming and too much detail and
◼
►
SpaceX of obviously are coming at it a
◼
►
lot of the time from a more pyaari
◼
►
standpoint and what looks good and what
◼
►
sells well and I think the boated nosov
◼
►
the car to the rocket stage is a really
◼
►
they're very silent on it and this is
◼
►
where you see the PR coming into things
◼
►
more this was the thing when I was
◼
►
mentioning before that the image seemed
◼
►
unreal was my number one question upon
◼
►
seeing those images was what it exactly
◼
►
is the physical situation here because I
◼
►
don't understand and I hadn't seen the
◼
►
launch at that point so I thought oh
◼
►
everybody who's seen the launch must
◼
►
just know and I don't have any
◼
►
perspective on it so I went googling
◼
►
around and trying to find it and I was
◼
►
really aware of the same thing like I
◼
►
can't find any information on is the
◼
►
Tesla just on its own or is it connected
◼
►
to something I couldn't quite find it
◼
►
and eventually in some reddit thread
◼
►
somewhere someone linked to this image
◼
►
which I don't think is an official image
◼
►
at all but they were trying to explain
◼
►
what the situation is and the thing that
◼
►
I have just sent Brady to look at
◼
►
shows that the Tesla is mounted on the
◼
►
top of a rocket almost like if you
◼
►
imagine if you had like a trophy at home
◼
►
someone was giving you a Tesla trophy
◼
►
there would be a base and then a
◼
►
narrower part for the trophy and then
◼
►
they would have a Tesla on the top of it
◼
►
that's what it looks like and when I was
◼
►
watching the livestream
◼
►
after having seen this image I could see
◼
►
that they show the rocket launching and
◼
►
then there's a very strategic moment
◼
►
where the livestream switches to a map
◼
►
they start playing the spaceman music
◼
►
and then it comes back and it just shows
◼
►
the Tesla as though it's floating in
◼
►
space and what I think happened there is
◼
►
that they blew the hood off the top of
◼
►
the rocket so that the Tesla is now
◼
►
exposed to outer space and then all of
◼
►
the camera angles are just from the side
◼
►
or just from the front so that you don't
◼
►
see the rocket that the Tesla is
◼
►
actually connected to and thinking about
◼
►
it it has to be connected to the rocket
◼
►
for that into the orbit and if it's
◼
►
connected to that Rockets like well
◼
►
where's that rocket going to go if it's
◼
►
pushing the Tesla it's just going to be
◼
►
right behind the Tesla I don't think
◼
►
there's any point in separating them so
◼
►
I mean you would there would be things
◼
►
you would separate just so I'm clear on
◼
►
what I'm saying here I don't think
◼
►
they've been particularly unclear about
◼
►
what happened when it was circling
◼
►
around the earth mm-hmm and I've just
◼
►
sent you and link to a picture that Elon
◼
►
Musk himself put on Instagram that shows
◼
►
like the mounted trophy car that's never
◼
►
been a secret and the fact that they
◼
►
just had all the camera angles cropped
◼
►
so that it makes a better photo to show
◼
►
in the car in space I can live with that
◼
►
why make a messy photo showing the rest
◼
►
of the rocket when you don't need to the
◼
►
thing I'm less clear about is it would
◼
►
be common to do like an injection burst
◼
►
to leave the Earth's orbit and then
◼
►
leave your rocket behind hmm that's what
◼
►
they have to do with probes like you
◼
►
know the telescope's that they send out
◼
►
far into space as well they eventually
◼
►
have to get rid of that huge hulking
◼
►
rocket behind and you have a payload
◼
►
separation so I thought it was possible
◼
►
this just like a tiny tiny little rocket
◼
►
or charge or something that will give
◼
►
the car an extra push
◼
►
and the rocket will like eventually
◼
►
start trailing behind that's what you
◼
►
would normally do because all the
◼
►
imagery and the official animations
◼
►
basics shows the car on its own like
◼
►
drifting past Mars and the cars on its
◼
►
own now it's no longer bolted to the top
◼
►
of the rocket but that they didn't show
◼
►
that happening and I haven't showed it
◼
►
happening they don't talk about it I
◼
►
don't think it's like a conspiracy or
◼
►
anything like that I just think from PR
◼
►
reasons they don't want the image that
◼
►
we all have to be a car stuck to a
◼
►
runner for a million years going through
◼
►
space so they want us to be thinking
◼
►
it's just the car with the astronaut on
◼
►
its own and whether that's the case or
◼
►
not I still don't know maybe there is
◼
►
the case it's suspiciously quiet to me
◼
►
it may be by the time this podcast goes
◼
►
out I'll know differently you know I'll
◼
►
do a Mia culpa but I think they're being
◼
►
pyaari at the moment yeah at the time of
◼
►
the recording it is unclear to both of
◼
►
us what the final situation is for this
◼
►
Tesla in space for millions of years
◼
►
someone just sent me a tweet there cuz
◼
►
I've been tweeting about this today
◼
►
someone just sent me a tweet from a
◼
►
tweet and a retweets I don't know how
◼
►
legit this is but it sounds legit
◼
►
already though someone with a bluetick
◼
►
tweeted I now have confirmation that the
◼
►
Tesla remains attached to the Falcons
◼
►
second stage which is being observed by
◼
►
asteroid experts it makes sense he'd
◼
►
want to attached to the main rocket
◼
►
because it'll be easier to track and all
◼
►
that sort of stuff but I'm becoming
◼
►
increasingly convinced until Elin must
◼
►
tweets me back and tells me otherwise
◼
►
that don't have an image of this car
◼
►
floating through space on its own there
◼
►
is a hulking great rocket stage attached
◼
►
to the bottom of it again doesn't matter
◼
►
still awesome still made nice photos but
◼
►
it shows an interesting difference
◼
►
what's going to happen now with
◼
►
commercial space exploration
◼
►
NASA's always is transparent almost to a
◼
►
fault aren't they they tell you too much
◼
►
and the commercial guys are going to be
◼
►
a lot more will just show you what we
◼
►
think is gonna get us the most retweets
◼
►
well Brady now so once those retweets to
◼
►
you know they do yeah that's true
◼
►
everybody wants to retweet oh yeah
◼
►
forgot about the kids spider-man gate
◼
►
okay let's keep the retweets you know my
◼
►
little nephew listens to the podcast
◼
►
bedtime thing right I was with him
◼
►
recently and we were talking about when
◼
►
uncle Brady spoke on the podcast about
◼
►
spider-man in space and he was like I
◼
►
think he said something along the lines
◼
►
of I really wanted to see spider-man in
◼
►
space sounds really cool
◼
►
I sort of smugly to smile to myself and
◼
►
thought well he's just a little boy he
◼
►
doesn't really understand what we're
◼
►
talking about on the podcast does he and
◼
►
I'm like yeah it looks pretty cool
◼
►
doesn't it what do you think uncle Brady
◼
►
thought about that and he just looked at
◼
►
me really solemnly and said you didn't
◼
►
like it ago but I think it's good he
◼
►
knew exactly what I was complaining
◼
►
about but he's stupid it was awesome
◼
►
uncle Brady party pooper so Brady I've
◼
►
been getting into a lot of documentaries
◼
►
lately yeah and I recommended one to you
◼
►
to watch and I understand that you
◼
►
you've seen an episode of it and this is
◼
►
the Netflix documentary called the
◼
►
confession tapes hmm it's about this
◼
►
thing that we have touched upon on the
◼
►
show which is my belief in the frailty
◼
►
and the easily manipulated nature of
◼
►
human memories and his documentary
◼
►
series it's like a series of TV shows I
◼
►
thought it was very very interesting to
◼
►
see but what they're doing in each
◼
►
episode is they're talking about a trial
◼
►
where it is believed that the defendant
◼
►
has submitted into evidence a false
◼
►
confession for one reason or another I
◼
►
find this stuff personally horrifying on
◼
►
a variety of levels and I thought you
◼
►
might want to watch it before the show
◼
►
did you think it was good I watched one
◼
►
episode I watched episode three the
◼
►
third one on your advice and yes it was
◼
►
it was pretty good thought it was
◼
►
alright I don't know why that episode
◼
►
was the one you decided to recommend to
◼
►
me I'm sure you'll tell me but I love
◼
►
this stuff by the way and I'm gonna
◼
►
watch all of them cuz I find it
◼
►
fascinating but I do feel like I'm
◼
►
getting a little bit jaded by like
◼
►
criminal stuff and podcasts and
◼
►
documentaries is all the rage at the
◼
►
moment it's everywhere you look and this
◼
►
convicted people thing has become a big
◼
►
since cereal has become a real big thing
◼
►
and everyone loves jumping on her and as
◼
►
far as those things go I thought this
◼
►
one that you got me to watch was a
◼
►
pretty standard run-of-the-mill an
◼
►
exceptional case that made me a little
◼
►
I wasn't outraged by it didn't move my
◼
►
emotional needle very much but I thought
◼
►
it was well made and good and it's made
◼
►
me wanna watch more and I guess in some
◼
►
ways the typical blender solvent maybe
◼
►
is a good reason that you chose me to
◼
►
watch this one because it was so typical
◼
►
of this sort of forced confession thing
◼
►
but yeah I wanted to mention it because
◼
►
I feel like it didn't have any
◼
►
particular special circumstances some of
◼
►
the other episodes have particularly the
◼
►
first one which is a two-parter have
◼
►
what I regard as somewhat appalling
◼
►
special circumstances with regards to
◼
►
confessions yeah but in this episode it
◼
►
is that like here is how just a normal
◼
►
person gets sucked into this thing it's
◼
►
a guy whose girlfriend is killed in a
◼
►
bar and then the bar is set on fire and
◼
►
he's brought in to the police and as
◼
►
these things go the police start
◼
►
questioning him and he eventually gives
◼
►
a confession which he says is a false
◼
►
confession there are a couple of things
◼
►
that I was just thinking about watching
◼
►
this and and you say that crime stuff is
◼
►
very popular like it's very zeitgeist II
◼
►
at the moment and it's like man people
◼
►
sure do you love crime it's a thing I'm
◼
►
aware like if I'm in a bookstore mo he's
◼
►
always aware of like oh there's a whole
◼
►
section which is just called true crime
◼
►
which is a thousand books alright just
◼
►
about criminal stuff and yeah it feels
◼
►
like there's an overabundance of crime
◼
►
podcasts that exist in the world but
◼
►
this is a thing that I I still wonder
◼
►
about is does the average person really
◼
►
have any idea about false confessions or
◼
►
how unreliable human eye witness
◼
►
testimony is and in this episode in
◼
►
particular one at one of the jurors
◼
►
makes a few comments about not being
◼
►
of things are simply not believing like
◼
►
well someone had a confession like how