The Accidental Tech Podcast

265: Simon Says Volume Five

 

  Apple APIs for a long time that certain [TS]

  points on one side are better than the [TS]

  ports on the other side that's been true [TS]

  for many laptops in Apple's history yeah [TS]

  it's always kind of annoying but we [TS]

  understand why it is the way it is and [TS]

  we accept it I don't think it's a source [TS]

  of ridicule all right I just feel like [TS]

  all I can imagine is all of us going [TS]

  haha those idiot PC P plate it's an Emmy [TS]

  we have talked about that as an inherent [TS]

  problem with using the same connector [TS]

  for all these things I think the I still [TS]

  think that the advantages are using the [TS]

  same connection for all them outweigh [TS]

  the disadvantages but you know as marker [TS]

  just that your laptop has a port as a [TS]

  whole that's exactly the same shape is [TS]

  the ones at Marcos and yet it is not [TS]

  capable of the things that Marcos Marcos [TS]

  okay it's both the same cables fit into [TS]

  both of them but if you plug in a thing [TS]

  that expects Thunderbolt endears it [TS]

  won't work and there's no indication for [TS]

  that physically speaking I don't even [TS]

  know if there's a little lightning bolt [TS]

  thingy next to them anymore no so I mean [TS]

  that's just that's just the nature [TS]

  wouldn't be next to yours so I you know [TS]

  I think the implicit assumption I'm also [TS]

  thinking of my own feelings about [TS]

  underlyings discussion is that I still I [TS]

  still believe I'm still hoping I guess [TS]

  that when Apple does you know make a [TS]

  bigger vision as a laptop line that one [TS]

  or more of the new laptops the [TS]

  introduced will have more ports than the [TS]

  thing that it's replacing and that's why [TS]

  I keep getting to like what do you think [TS]

  they'll add or whatever if if I'm wrong [TS]

  about that and if they introduced a [TS]

  whole new laptop line that's like the [TS]

  next generation after like this current [TS]

  crop of 2016 2017 like I've had time to [TS]

  process the the feedback from the market [TS]

  and you know someone and so forth and [TS]

  none of them have any more ports I will [TS]

  be extremely disappointed like I [TS]

  realized in myself like I've just been [TS]

  assuming basically since the Apple [TS]

  roundtable about the Mac when they [TS]

  talked about the Mac Pro from that point [TS]

  on I you know I read into what they said [TS]

  would imply hopes and dreams of saying [TS]

  yeah I know you're talking about the Mac [TS]

  Pro and the iMac Pro like I know that's [TS]

  what this is really about and about a [TS]

  rededication to the Mac but the few [TS]

  sentences they said about the laptops I [TS]

  latched on to really hard and said that [TS]

  means eventually you know after you know [TS]

  two year cycle whatever takes a long [TS]

  time like not not immediately but [TS]

  eventually when they do the next big [TS]

  laptop revision one or more of them will [TS]

  have more ports and I don't know what [TS]

  I'm going to do if that turns out not to [TS]

  be the case like my faith and [TS]

  I'm already a laptop hater I guess but [TS]

  my faith in Apple's laptops will be [TS]

  fundamentally shaken because so far it's [TS]

  still just like they made a wrong turn [TS]

  and things were already in the pipeline [TS]

  and they couldn't really do much about [TS]

  the revision for 2017 all they did was [TS]

  that the rubber gaskets and stuff and [TS]

  it's like hopefully they know it's wrong [TS]

  next time they do the big revision [TS]

  that'll be the time to make more [TS]

  different fundamental decisions but if [TS]

  the next ones come along and they're [TS]

  exactly the same set of just USBC only a [TS]

  MacBook one is still the MacBook one the [TS]

  the other one still just have two ports [TS]

  and you know and there's no changes and [TS]

  no max a4 no SD card no HDMI and nobody [TS]

  gets any not even an additional USB C [TS]

  port nothing I don't know I'm gonna be [TS]

  super disappointed [TS]

  I'll probably you know I probably can [TS]

  stall myself by hugging my new Mac Pro [TS]

  but but I you know but I don't know what [TS]

  you have you did you guys like have you [TS]

  internalized that as a thing you expect [TS]

  and so now you're set up to be [TS]

  disappointed by not being there or are [TS]

  you still like pessimistic and you'll be [TS]

  pleasantly surprised if they do anything [TS]

  that I will be stunned if there's any [TS]

  sort of and not really Maricopa but like [TS]

  if they add any sort of ports to any of [TS]

  these laptops I will be flabbergasted [TS]

  I'm not saying it's it's unreasonable [TS]

  but I do think it is a what did you say [TS]

  like egg on the face sort of admission [TS]

  that oh maybe we didn't get this exactly [TS]

  right if they had a USB C or a [TS]

  thunderbolt like it's not an admission [TS]

  of anything is just they added a more [TS]

  port even that will be something it'll [TS]

  say look we realize us PC is great but [TS]

  when you only get two of them one's [TS]

  taken with power it really limits things [TS]

  so now you got one more so you got three [TS]

  yeah I mean and let's be realistic here [TS]

  also like if you look at if you look at [TS]

  the side one of these things and you [TS]

  look at like the height of ports I think [TS]

  it's very unlikely that we will see the [TS]

  return of USB a or even MagSafe because [TS]

  I don't think they fit I think they're [TS]

  too tall I don't think they could [TS]

  reasonably fit those it would have to be [TS]

  a pneumatic safe yeah it had to be [TS]

  MagSafe three yeah right because I don't [TS]

  I can't see them doing that and I'm [TS]

  honestly I'm totally okay with USB C [TS]

  charging [TS]

  I wish the charger was nicer I wish it [TS]

  had things like the charging light and [TS]

  some kind of version of MagSafe would be [TS]

  nice but other than that actually like [TS]

  USB C charge because you can get [TS]

  third-party chargers that have like you [TS]

  know like [TS]

  like the wonderful anchor one that has [TS]

  the built-in USB charging also like the [TS]

  in you know it makes the charging [TS]

  situation much more flexible and then [TS]

  you couldn't you can travel a little bit [TS]

  lighter and stuff like that so I like [TS]

  that [TS]

  but if you look at what can actually fit [TS]

  in this new super thin case design not a [TS]

  lot can USBC you know you can fit more [TS]

  of them and maybe you know what Apple [TS]

  maybe you could put them a little [TS]

  further apart because they're really [TS]

  close to each other and it makes it a [TS]

  little bit annoying to use also the [TS]

  headphone jack should move back to the [TS]

  left side where it belongs because [TS]

  there's a reason why headphones were [TS]

  always on the left side of laptops [TS]

  before it's because when you have a [TS]

  headphone cable that only has a wire on [TS]

  one side historically that has been [TS]

  conventionally on the left ear cup so [TS]

  your headphone cable goes down the left [TS]

  of your cup down your left arm into the [TS]

  left side port of the laptop when it's [TS]

  on the right side you have to cross your [TS]

  headphone cable over your laptop which [TS]

  sucks so that's wrong anyway you can [TS]

  wrap it around the back oh oh by the way [TS]

  speaking of ports on different sides I [TS]

  do that's another thing I appreciate [TS]

  about USB power that you can connect the [TS]

  power to decide so depending on like [TS]

  where you are on the couch or wherever [TS]

  if you're in someplace that you can do [TS]

  it like that's why I think they should [TS]

  always keep that and I really don't [TS]

  never expect them to make MagSafe 3 but [TS]

  I've been musing on it lately yeah [TS]

  anyway so I think if we look at like [TS]

  what kind of ports we might [TS]

  realistically actually get I wouldn't [TS]

  expect USBA I wouldn't expect MagSafe SD [TS]

  cards are actually plausible that I [TS]

  think could fit if I'm not sure if they [TS]

  want to but again I think that would go [TS]

  a long way towards addressing a lot of [TS]

  people's complaints HDMI almost [TS]

  certainly won't fit they could do mini [TS]

  HDMI but they won't you know they're [TS]

  gonna rely on Thunderbolt USBC for that [TS]

  but ultimately I think the most [TS]

  realistic option is to either get no [TS]

  port changes at all which like John I [TS]

  would be very disappointed by or to get [TS]

  more USB C ports which I would be very [TS]

  happy with so we'll see ya more USB [TS]

  supports is the most likely I'm still [TS]

  rooting for SD I think back when we [TS]

  talked about this originally I said just [TS]

  add an SD card and they'll be fine but [TS]

  the more I think [TS]

  about the port being taken up by power [TS]

  and experiencing myself the more I think [TS]

  more or USBC would be good idea and by [TS]

  the way for our magazine three design [TS]

  again not that they're doing this but if [TS]

  you give up on the notion that the [TS]

  magnet is on the side of the computer [TS]

  you can do lots of interesting things [TS]

  imagine if MagSafe look like a little [TS]

  shovel and and it was a large surface [TS]

  area magnet sort of on the bottom like [TS]

  in an L shape like it clipped onto the [TS]

  corner and tucked underneath a little [TS]

  curve like there are things you could do [TS]

  to add much more magnet surface area [TS]

  while keeping it very thin like we don't [TS]

  have to think inside the box defined by [TS]

  MagSafe as it previously existed manic [TS]

  magnetically detachable charging cables [TS]

  for trip proof nests is I still think a [TS]

  good idea and an idea that could [TS]

  manifest in a way they will work with [TS]

  the thinnest possible laptops still so [TS]

  in the chat room expressly asked an [TS]

  interesting question they said which you [TS]

  prefer second USB see on the adorable or [TS]

  a headphone jack and and I presume the [TS]

  genesis of this is that on the opposite [TS]

  side of the laptop on the right hand [TS]

  side and mark oh you're right to say [TS]

  that that is bananas but on the right [TS]

  hand side the laptop of the of the [TS]

  adorable [TS]

  there is a headphone jack and I would [TS]

  absolutely without a shadow of a doubt [TS]

  trade in that headphone jack for another [TS]

  USB C port without question because [TS]

  you've you've got air pause that's right [TS]

  yeah I mean you know and all sorts of [TS]

  other bluetooth headphones and in yeah [TS]

  there are occasions that I have plugged [TS]

  in headphones to this laptop but they [TS]

  are extremely rare and I would get much [TS]

  more maybe not daily but much more [TS]

  frequent use out of a second USB C port [TS]

  then I would the headphone jack that's [TS]

  there today there's no reason to make [TS]

  that trade though we already did 20 [TS]

  shows about complaining about there's no [TS]

  room for another USB port there is that [TS]

  phone it will be fine we are sponsored [TS]

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  pretty great at Jam comm slash ATP [TS]

  that's JAMF comm slash ATP secure your [TS]

  business today with Jam for now thank [TS]

  you so much to camp now for sponsoring [TS]

  our show WTC is announced it is in San [TS]

  Jose again it is the 4th through the 8th [TS]

  of June which is phenomenally great [TS]

  because that's what the three of us [TS]

  guessed it would be and that's what we [TS]

  booked hotel tickets for a long time ago [TS]

  so that's great news it is going to be [TS]

  apparently about marzipan or whatever [TS]

  it's being called today if you believe [TS]

  what people are looking at on the [TS]

  invitation which i think is a exercise [TS]

  in futility because the invitation never [TS]

  use anything but also of interest on [TS]

  that Monday which is the fourth all [TS]

  three of your hosts will be there to do [TS]

  another episode in addition of ATP live [TS]

  which is part of a what are they calling [TS]

  it like a podcast fair or something like [TS]

  that festival festival that's what I was [TS]

  looking for thank you which means to [TS]

  live fought cast at all calm we so yeah [TS]

  so we're going to be doing a kind of a [TS]

  joint thing between us alt conflict like [TS]

  Marco said and relay they're going to be [TS]

  doing an episode of connected in [TS]

  addition to some other things that I [TS]

  genuinely don't know what's happening [TS]

  but I know enough to know that it's [TS]

  going to be an extravaganza so if you [TS]

  are interested in coming to see ATP live [TS]

  in San Jose on Monday June 4th you can [TS]

  get tickets at alt con Fissel alt cuffs [TS]

  website [TS]

  we'll put a link in the show notes they [TS]

  are five dollars a piece if they're [TS]

  still available I honestly haven't even [TS]

  looked that money goes to alt conf which [TS]

  is good because all conf is free so we [TS]

  don't see any of that money but I don't [TS]

  think that's a bad thing at all and [TS]

  additionally you can get tickets to the [TS]

  relay thing as well or to all con and [TS]

  it's worth noting that even if WDC lot [TS]

  if the if the lottery doesn't work out [TS]

  well for you in addition to alt con [TS]

  there's also layers that will be going [TS]

  on the same time run by friend of the [TS]

  show jesse char and a couple of other [TS]

  lovely women actually I think it's just [TS]

  Elaine and she but anyway they are [TS]

  awesome they are super super awesome and [TS]

  the the conference is super super [TS]

  awesome and the snacks at the conference [TS]

  are super super awesome so no matter how [TS]

  you slice it later layers is great all [TS]

  conf is great W DC is great plenty of [TS]

  options if you can find yourself in San [TS]

  Jose that week is that it well that was [TS]

  fast [TS]

  you covered it pretty well go team [TS]

  raised in chief yeah chief summarize our [TS]

  and cheap chief actually do my job for [TS]

  once you talk about the WWC graphics [TS]

  which you alluded to earlier I think [TS]

  some of the commentary about those are [TS]

  commentary tweets whatever about this [TS]

  have kind of combined to things that are [TS]

  not really related one is the artwork [TS]

  Apple puts on the email invitations to [TS]

  select press when they are gonna have an [TS]

  event come hear us talk about whatever [TS]

  we you know like iPhone announcement [TS]

  event or you know Mac update a bit press [TS]

  events right and traditionally they make [TS]

  a little graphic and usually sometimes a [TS]

  little phrase underneath it right and [TS]

  then there is what we're actually [TS]

  talking about here which is every year [TS]

  when they do WWDC there's some kind of [TS]

  graphical motif or theme it's used like [TS]

  in the banners that hang in the [TS]

  exhibition halls and the rooms where [TS]

  they have things that's used in all the [TS]

  websites and the materials and the [TS]

  emails and it started off pretty generic [TS]

  many many years ago but it has evolved [TS]

  so that now each WWC has kind of like a [TS]

  branding theme or flavor so for the [TS]

  press invitations [TS]

  sometimes those have been intentionally [TS]

  pointing to something they're gonna say [TS]

  like the one with a little rotating [TS]

  Apple with the like back to the Mac [TS]

  thing behind it where they were going to [TS]

  talk more about the Mac and guess what [TS]

  they talked more about them [TS]

  some of them are only explicable in [TS]

  hindsight where you can tell some of the [TS]

  graphic treatments on the invitation [TS]

  were the same ones they would use when [TS]

  they announced a particular product [TS]

  whether it's the iPhone or whatever but [TS]

  sometimes it's just a fun graphical [TS]

  theme that has to do with hey we have an [TS]

  app store and you make apps or it and [TS]

  absurd these little rounded rectangle [TS]

  things so we use lots of lot of rounded [TS]

  rectangles in our and our stuff but I [TS]

  would say that there is a fairly solid [TS]

  track record of some of the time the [TS]

  press invitations do in fact [TS]

  intentionally indicates something that [TS]

  they're going to talk about in a vague [TS]

  way WWC art on the other hand has a much [TS]

  worse track record of communicating [TS]

  anything about what's going to breathe [TS]

  Zenta to other than the fact that it's a [TS]

  developer conference where they tell you [TS]

  about developing crapple platforms as [TS]

  far as I can recall there has never been [TS]

  a WWDC website that hinted strongly at [TS]

  the specific nature of a specific thing [TS]

  they're going to announce probably [TS]

  mostly because at the time this artwork [TS]

  is commissioned they're not even [TS]

  entirely sure what's going to be [TS]

  presented at WWDC and things that you [TS]

  know are going into and out of the [TS]

  keynote and into and out of the sessions [TS]

  for a long time so I feel like this [TS]

  route trying to read the tea leaves in [TS]

  sort work it's probably about as useful [TS]

  as trying to read the tea leaves in last [TS]

  year's artwork which is all those top [TS]

  views of of people yeah a little bit [TS]

  which was like it's a particular artist [TS]

  who does that style of stuff and it was [TS]

  that that aesthetic theme was all over [TS]

  WWC yesteryear but it had nothing to do [TS]

  with anything that was presented it was [TS]

  just a cool fun marketing style that [TS]

  talked about you know people developers [TS]

  are people and they're doing developing [TS]

  things and it's fun and interesting [TS]

  forever [TS]

  all right this one looks super cool and [TS]

  it's got these cool 3d representations [TS]

  of like you know UI elements from iOS [TS]

  and the Mac it's because and it's got [TS]

  curly braces and other weird shapes it [TS]

  communicates like hey these are things [TS]

  you use when you're developing for our [TS]

  platforms and this is a conference about [TS]

  developing for our platforms it's really [TS]

  hard to read anything into it but people [TS]

  are so they so want to see something in [TS]

  it those things see how these are all 3d [TS]

  it's a showing that they're moving away [TS]

  from flat design because nothing is flat [TS]

  in this to get it man [TS]

  there you know and like it's really [TS]

  reaching and I have to admit when I saw [TS]

  this and I thought was nostalgia because [TS]

  one of I tweeted this one of the [TS]

  elements in this very cool looking like [TS]

  there's an animation that goes along [TS]

  with very cool looking 3d rendered [TS]

  things showing a bunch of controls one [TS]

  of the elements in the lower left corner [TS]

  are three translucent spheres with with [TS]

  symbols in them an X a minus and then [TS]

  two little arrow e things like a box [TS]

  with a slash through it and I I tweeted [TS]

  about it with a one-word tweet said [TS]

  memories dot a lot of people didn't know [TS]

  they responded and thought I was [TS]

  referring to things in like iOS 10 or [TS]

  something or you know or pre iOS 7 or [TS]

  whatever what I was actually referring [TS]

  to was the window control widgets what [TS]

  we used to call the stoplight widgets [TS]

  red for window clothes yellow for [TS]

  minimizing green for what used to be [TS]

  zoom and is now or the fullscreen arosa [TS]

  hell it does now they used to be [TS]

  rendered as if they were glossy spheres [TS]

  and when you brought your mouse near [TS]

  them or hovered over one of them you'd [TS]

  see these symbols appear in the spheres [TS]

  and they were glassy spheres just like [TS]

  these spheres all this is just viewing [TS]

  them from a different angle later in the [TS]

  life life of the Mac operating system [TS]

  they became flatter and eventually they [TS]

  just became like what they are now which [TS]

  is like you know flat colors of red [TS]

  yellow and where they're not they don't [TS]

  even look like their spheres at all [TS]

  right even though they still have the [TS]

  symbols in them but floating in this [TS]

  thing are not the flat window widgets of [TS]

  today's high sierra floating in this [TS]

  thing are the window widgets of you know [TS]

  cheetah puma and Panther Mac os10 I [TS]

  forgot about mr. Jaguar sorry Mike OS [TS]

  ten point zero one two and three I think [TS]

  is how long these things last before [TS]

  they start getting really flat and that [TS]

  I thought was a nice nostalgic nod or an [TS]

  indication that the Mac is considered [TS]

  legacy but it's a nice nod towards the [TS]

  past because most of the other controls [TS]

  that you see here are clearly elements [TS]

  from iOS or elements from applications [TS]

  that are popularized by iOS like the [TS]

  little dot dot when someone's typing in [TS]

  messages right I think it's the same [TS]

  graphic they use in in messages on the [TS]

  Mac but I associated with iOS just [TS]

  because that's where you know text [TS]

  messaging first came to the Apple [TS]

  platforms [TS]

  my take is that you should not read into [TS]

  these type of graphics I think this is [TS]

  an awesome graphic I love the aesthetic [TS]

  theme and I'm just enjoying it as cool [TS]

  branding for WWC yeah I agree with [TS]

  everything inter said so we'll all be [TS]

  there and I'm excited for it it's one of [TS]

  my favorite times a year and it's really [TS]

  really fun I don't really care at all [TS]

  about textures so I don't know which one [TS]

  of you added this to the show notes but [TS]

  do you want to take it away [TS]

  apparently magazines are a really hot [TS]

  business right now they're it's really a [TS]

  growth industry apples getting into the [TS]

  air you really messed that one up Marco [TS]

  mm we should explain what this thing is [TS]

  I hadn't heard of it before today [TS]

  surprised because really popular anyway [TS]

  Apple as an apple press release end or [TS]

  PR person would say Apple acquires small [TS]

  companies all the time you know it [TS]

  actually is really a high number every [TS]

  time they say like did you know the last [TS]

  year Apple acquired 35 companies or some [TS]

  some huge entry like really they you [TS]

  know it's mostly small like Apple [TS]

  doesn't want to buy them when they're [TS]

  attending dollar company they want to [TS]

  get them before that sometimes they buy [TS]

  companies just for the people sometimes [TS]

  for the technologies or patents rarely [TS]

  do they buy them for complete working [TS]

  businesses but that does happen to like [TS]

  beets they bought beets and continue to [TS]

  sell Beats headphones as Beats [TS]

  headphones right pickets maybe the one [TS]

  of the most recent full-fledged [TS]

  businesses they purchased so texture [TS]

  seems like one of the small ones it's [TS]

  not clear to me whether they bought it [TS]

  for the business or the people or the [TS]

  tech or anything like that but it what [TS]

  it is described as is Netflix for [TS]

  magazines where you play a flat fee and [TS]

  get access to a bunch of magazines in [TS]

  the same way you pay a flat fee every [TS]

  month for Netflix and you get access to [TS]

  a bunch of movies [TS]

  why does Apple need to buy this I'm not [TS]

  sure why they might want to buy it but [TS]

  Apple has in the past shown that they're [TS]

  interested in being some kind of a [TS]

  platform aid to periodicals we all [TS]

  remember newsstand Marco I'm sure most [TS]

  fondly mmm [TS]

  that was an attempt to do something like [TS]

  this newsstand did not work out so well [TS]

  newsstand is now gone but it signals [TS]

  apples interest in this texture strikes [TS]

  me as all right the approach with [TS]

  newsstand of making this weird app slash [TS]

  folder where a bunch of things go and [TS]

  putting weird limitations on them a [TS]

  giving [TS]

  you know of recurring structures like [TS]

  the whole newsstand thing didn't work [TS]

  out having individual applications for [TS]

  individual things but having them be [TS]

  newsstand savvy that that model didn't [TS]

  work for us let's try this model and [TS]

  this model seems a little bit more like [TS]

  Apple News where Apple itself could [TS]

  potentially make an application and [TS]

  within that application you see a bunch [TS]

  of magazines just like within Apple news [TS]

  you see a bunch of news and other [TS]

  content you know content providers can [TS]

  participate in Apple News not by [TS]

  launching their own application that is [TS]

  Apple News powered but rather by getting [TS]

  their news into the one and only Apple [TS]

  news application texture is an [TS]

  established business that works in a [TS]

  certain way so I'm not sure if Apple's [TS]

  gonna rebrand it or just put it out the [TS]

  way it is or just scrap texture entirely [TS]

  and take those people and tell them to [TS]

  make newsstand version 2 this time it'll [TS]

  be better but as Marco or maybe Casey [TS]

  pointed out it's great that they're kind [TS]

  of into that but I'm not sure magazines [TS]

  on computers or otherwise they're really [TS]

  where it's at in terms of a growth [TS]

  industry but I you know I I would give [TS]

  Apple full credit for recognizing the [TS]

  newsstand didn't work out Sun setting in [TS]

  a fairly graceful way you know as I [TS]

  think Marco said the best time to cancel [TS]

  something is when no one notices that [TS]

  you cancel it and many people don't [TS]

  realize newsstand is gone now because if [TS]

  you never really news it like isn't it [TS]

  thank God or if you remember what news [TS]

  thing was yeah it's gone and no one [TS]

  really kicked up a fuss about it [TS]

  so that was that was good and I think [TS]

  it's worth taking another on it I know I [TS]

  read magazines and I do have individual [TS]

  app you know I have like the edge [TS]

  magazine application like I read [TS]

  magazines on my iPads I don't I'm not [TS]

  totally offended by that idea I read [TS]

  e-books on my iPad too and so if Apple [TS]

  wants to make a really nice service [TS]

  application thingy for reading magazines [TS]

  sure give it a shot why shouldn't they [TS]

  be allowed to give that a try yeah no [TS]

  argument here it just this was not on my [TS]

  radar before and as soon as we cease [TS]

  talking about it it will not be on my [TS]

  radar yeah do either one of you read [TS]

  magazines at all on any iOS device no I [TS]

  don't read magazines at all on anything [TS]

  ever yeah no I mean I still recon driver [TS]

  on paper and I read edge on paper and [TS]

  also in iOS I think there iOS app I mean [TS]

  it's not great but it's not the bad old [TS]

  days of like the original Zinio for [TS]

  I know this is the new Zinio behind [TS]

  these I have no idea what the technology [TS]

  powers it is but it's not just a bunch [TS]

  of PDFs they throw under your screen [TS]

  although with today's retina they could [TS]

  probably do that it would probably be [TS]

  okay especially on the twelve point nine [TS]

  inch because it's a practically magazine [TS]

  size and what the brightness screen it [TS]

  would look great I'm mostly doing it for [TS]

  edge and card driver because I like the [TS]

  content but the presentation in Iowa [TS]

  isn't bad and it's nice like not to have [TS]

  to carry around you know if you're going [TS]

  on vacation you want to read through [TS]

  your last three issues of edge magazine [TS]

  to have them all on your iPad rather [TS]

  than three paper things yeah it's [TS]

  convenient so I'm I will probably [TS]

  download this and try it and see how [TS]

  good the app is and if there are any [TS]

  magazines that I care about in there I [TS]

  doubt I'll subscribe to it though cool [TS]

  I have nothing to say about this I know [TS]

  I just say I don't care and maybe I [TS]

  should care but I think Apple buy is [TS]

  leading manufacturer of fax machines [TS]

  yeah I mean here's the thing with [TS]

  magazines like we were making fun of [TS]

  them because magazines is the old world [TS]

  or whatever but websites most websites [TS]

  are not that different from magazines [TS]

  and once you have a magazine that [TS]

  publishes through an application it's [TS]

  like is this just like a closed version [TS]

  of the web and a closed version of a web [TS]

  browser maybe but I you know websites [TS]

  and magazines still seem slightly [TS]

  different like magazines have websites [TS]

  but I don't know maybe I'm just [TS]

  nostalgic for the old days of magazines [TS]

  and there's lots of legacy businesses [TS]

  that are tied to the magazine format [TS]

  that I'm glad to see allowed to live [TS]

  another decade or two through an effort [TS]

  like this alright so time for skc p m-- [TS]

  at Wallin writes my mac pro does not [TS]

  have a Wi-Fi card [TS]

  wait this is a Mac Pro question I don't [TS]

  care bill Balinor writes I'm just [TS]

  kidding I'm kidding my Mac Pro does not [TS]

  have a Wi-Fi card my wife and son both [TS]

  of accounts in the Mac Pro and I was [TS]

  thinking of using migration assistant [TS]

  copy stuff from the old machine to the [TS]

  new can I connect them via ethernet for [TS]

  this purpose does or will it matter that [TS]

  the new machine will be running on High [TS]

  Sierra and the old machine is El Capitan [TS]

  I've looked for specific documentation [TS]

  on this online and haven't found a [TS]

  satisfyingly definitive answer no I [TS]

  don't think I have ever used migration [TS]

  assistant ever [TS]

  I'm not saying it's bad I'm not saying [TS]

  that I'm doing things the right way it's [TS]

  just I like to kind of start fresh each [TS]

  time I know that this is also a little [TS]

  bit different because you're talking [TS]

  about other people and they may not want [TS]

  to [TS]

  heart fresh even though you do but I I [TS]

  don't really have any good answers with [TS]

  regard to migration assistant have you [TS]

  guys to use that I thought both of you [TS]

  have I definitely have I'm a big [TS]

  proponent of migration system I think [TS]

  there are a couple parts this question [TS]

  starting at the very end I've looked for [TS]

  specific documentation haven't found [TS]

  anything I almost guarantee that there [TS]

  is satisfying definitive documentation [TS]

  related to this on Apple's website but [TS]

  yes sometimes it can be hard to find the [TS]

  beginning of the question go back to the [TS]

  beginning I can connect by all these [TS]

  there are things I don't have Wi-Fi does [TS]

  it matter I can tell you that you do not [TS]

  want to use my gray decision migration [TS]

  assistant over Wi-Fi if you can at all [TS]

  help it so the fact that your Mac Pro [TS]

  doesn't have a Wi-Fi card don't worry [TS]

  about it I would never recommend doing [TS]

  it [TS]

  it was worse when Wi-Fi was slower it's [TS]

  better that with now the Wi-Fi is faster [TS]

  but I have not had good luck with using [TS]

  migration assistant over Wi-Fi the good [TS]

  news is that most reasonably modern Macs [TS]

  can do migration assistant through [TS]

  almost any of their ports like I don't [TS]

  know if they can do it over the [TS]

  headphone jack yet but like the old iPod [TS]

  shuffle syncing over the headphones yeah [TS]

  I used to do it through firewire you can [TS]

  do it through Ethernet you can do it [TS]

  through Thunderbolt you can do all [TS]

  there's all sorts of ways that migration [TS]

  and system will work the bad news is [TS]

  figuring out how to get it to work with [TS]

  especially with the more obscure ports [TS]

  can be tricky so what I would recommend [TS]

  is finding going back to Apple's website [TS]

  and digging through this stuff and [TS]

  finding the documentation for your [TS]

  specific computer and it will usually [TS]

  tell you and by the way from your [TS]

  computer you can only a migrate to this [TS]

  set of computers through these [TS]

  interfaces like there are there is like [TS]

  sort of a matrix of what connected ins [TS]

  kind of use and how is known as the [TS]

  computer and you can unfortunately find [TS]

  yourself in a situation where you're [TS]

  trying to migrate from like a really old [TS]

  computer to a really new one when [TS]

  there's no great way to do it except for [TS]

  maybe Ethernet but then you need even an [TS]

  adapter or whatever but I have never as [TS]

  someone who keeps computers for a long [TS]

  time I've never kept one long enough [TS]

  that I was unable to run migration [TS]

  assistant so I was just using the [TS]

  fastest connection you can Ethernet is [TS]

  probably sufficient and it's probably [TS]

  the sort of the baseline so try to do [TS]

  that if you possibly can find the docs [TS]

  for it and just give it a try I think [TS]

  you will be mostly [TS]

  these were the results I always have [TS]

  been I find like that mobile migration [TS]

  assistance really does migrate my stuff [TS]

  and yes it does take a long time but the [TS]

  amount of time it takes when I do the [TS]

  math works out to be roughly a matter of [TS]

  data it has to transfer you know divided [TS]

  by the the transfer rate or whatever I [TS]

  have had almost similar look as that the [TS]

  only differences i would suggest are [TS]

  when you connect the old mac by a target [TS]

  disk mode it tends to be a significantly [TS]

  faster migration justin has an a pretty [TS]

  big problem that i think it's had [TS]

  basically forever in that it is terrible [TS]

  at estimating how much time you have [TS]

  left and it will frequently get into a [TS]

  state where it appears as though it's [TS]

  making no progress at all and it could [TS]

  stay there for hours or even days and [TS]

  that's very frustrating it's very hard [TS]

  to tell often what it's doing whether it [TS]

  is still going to go how long it's still [TS]

  going to go for that's why I said do the [TS]

  math like if you know you have you know [TS]

  a one terabyte hard drive is mostly full [TS]

  and you know your connection is one [TS]

  gigabit like do the division figure out [TS]

  how long you think it's gonna take and [TS]

  use that as you're outside you know like [TS]

  to get an idea of how long you think [TS]

  it's gonna take if it takes 10 times [TS]

  that thing something is probably gone [TS]

  wrong but it don't you know don't [TS]

  believe the progress bar because it [TS]

  doesn't know well anyway I I have had [TS]

  significantly better luck with doing it [TS]

  via target disc mode on the on the [TS]

  sending machine rather than like having [TS]

  both machines run the migration [TS]

  assistant app this would probably also [TS]

  if there's any problems with the old one [TS]

  being El Capitan target is mode would [TS]

  probably avoid those problems a little [TS]

  bit more likely or more easily than then [TS]

  running the migrate just an app on both [TS]

  sides but also yeah it's just I've found [TS]

  the disk method to be way faster and way [TS]

  more reliable and I have never had it [TS]

  reach one of those states where it seems [TS]

  like it's gonna just take forever [TS]

  whereas over Wi-Fi and even Gigabit [TS]

  Ethernet I've had that happen so if I do [TS]

  in target this mode you have most of the [TS]

  options that John suggested on the old [TS]

  Mac Pro you probably see the Mac Pro's [TS]

  that had Wi-Fi are optional would be [TS]

  2006 to 2008 I believe it was standard [TS]

  after that so it's pretty old [TS]

  it will definitely predate all [TS]

  because thunderbolt came after the mac [TS]

  pro so your best port is probably [TS]

  firewire 800 assuming you have well you [TS]

  definitely have that assuming it still [TS]

  works then I would suggest you know if [TS]

  you have any problems trying to do this [TS]

  over Ethernet [TS]

  I would suggest assuming the new machine [TS]

  has Thunderbolt [TS]

  go to the Apple store get a thunderbolt [TS]

  - well let's see you're gonna need two [TS]

  dongles all right now if I were 800 that [TS]

  is what I've got on the iMac right now [TS]

  isn't it suggest if you like target us [TS]

  moment he doesn't go firewire 800 to USB [TS]

  3 then our mold or does it hat do you [TS]

  have to adapt 2 to 3 and then 2 to 800 I [TS]

  only have one adapter in the back of my [TS]

  5k iMac [TS]

  it's like firewire 800 into this adapter [TS]

  and this adapter into the back of the [TS]

  iMac but I confess I do not recall what [TS]

  exactly it's going into the back of yet [TS]

  so you know it so assuming that your he [TS]

  doesn't actually say what he's going to [TS]

  write no ok so assuming let's say that [TS]

  it's a current generation machine that [TS]

  only has Thunderbolt 3 ports you might [TS]

  need two dongles to go once from 800 to [TS]

  Thunderbolt 2 and then once again from [TS]

  Thunderbolt 2 to 300 3 so that might be [TS]

  like $80 worth of don lows because [TS]

  Thunderbolt ones like 50 bucks [TS]

  practically speaking the reason I find [TS]

  myself using Ethernet is because I'm [TS]

  doing two desktops in the far away from [TS]

  each other and it's kind of a pain to [TS]

  like yeah disconnected that top and lug [TS]

  it over and put it close enough so your [TS]

  little firewire or Thunderbolt or USBC [TS]

  cable can connect to the right ports [TS]

  just then you're like look you know [TS]

  Ethernet is easier even if your home [TS]

  isn't wire everything in it so just get [TS]

  on your feet of Ethernet cable and plug [TS]

  it in and snake it over and leave it [TS]

  there for a day for you to do the [TS]

  transfers that of course encourage you [TS]

  to wire your house or Ethernet like a [TS]

  civilized person yeah well I mean it to [TS]

  me if they have a Mac Pro that doesn't [TS]

  have Wi-Fi they probably have this [TS]

  covered anyway so yeah that I agree try [TS]

  Ethernet first and only go by the $80 [TS]

  worth of dongles and cables if for some [TS]

  reason you can't always sales and backup [TS]

  before you do anything [TS]

  backup make a bunch of backups take the [TS]

  backups disconnect them from all your [TS]

  computers put it you know put it [TS]

  someplace else and then [TS]

  have fun screwing through computers [TS]

  worst case scenario you screw everything [TS]

  up you erase everything you restore from [TS]

  backup and then you're back to your [TS]

  initial stage again also wait if you can [TS]

  back up to like a USB 3 hard drive your [TS]

  old my protists must be 3 migration but [TS]

  yeah you could just then plug that into [TS]

  the new computer and just do it that way [TS]

  all right [TS]

  Bill Balinor writes is it ok for [TS]

  developers to force flight interactions [TS]

  on their users such as labeling the ok [TS]

  button and a prompt yes please or the [TS]

  dismiss button in a confirmation dialog [TS]

  Thanks these things make me cranky [TS]

  you're wrong [TS]

  this is absolutely acceptable and I like [TS]

  it Oh God know what's right ok so ok [TS]

  there's if done in a non-intrusive non [TS]

  suggestive not putting words in my mouth [TS]

  kind of way it can be fine unfortunately [TS]

  that's not what happens in practice in [TS]

  practice you have things like no I don't [TS]

  want to subscribe to the newsletter and [TS]

  get all these special deals because I'm [TS]

  cheap like or like somebody that like [TS]

  they make you so often the words they [TS]

  use are passive-aggressively condemning [TS]

  yourself for making a choice that does [TS]

  not benefit the developer's business [TS]

  interests and it's really obnoxious [TS]

  oftentimes other than that it just you [TS]

  know it tries to sound human and hip and [TS]

  cool but it's from like a big [TS]

  corporation and we know that's fake and [TS]

  it comes off as just insincere fakery [TS]

  trying to appeal to be more human from a [TS]

  company that is anything but so it's [TS]

  very it's very hard and very rare to get [TS]

  this kind of thing right in a way that [TS]

  sounds both sincere and non offensive [TS]

  III think you're reading too much into [TS]

  this or maybe I'm not reading enough [TS]

  into it to me like having a having a [TS]

  dismissed button that says things I [TS]

  don't have a problem with that having a [TS]

  dismiss button dismissed button that [TS]

  says no I'm too cheap or even if it's [TS]

  passive-aggressively saying no I'm too [TS]

  cheap and not using those literal words [TS]

  that yes I agree with you that's total [TS]

  garbage but something as simple as yes [TS]

  please or thanks or no thank you like I [TS]

  don't have a problem with that at all [TS]

  you I think you would have a problem [TS]

  with the thanks because thanks is [TS]

  putting words in your mouth like you [TS]

  just want the box to go away so there's [TS]

  there's two aspects of problem one is [TS]

  the giving your you know press thing [TS]

  personality and putting words into the [TS]

  mouth of the user because what if [TS]

  they're annoyed at your application [TS]

  right now and are forced to hit a button [TS]

  that says thanks and they don't want to [TS]

  thank your application at all because [TS]

  they're frustrated with your application [TS]

  the thanks button makes them hate your [TS]

  application even more because you're [TS]

  forcing them to pretend they're saying [TS]

  thanks right but the second reason [TS]

  independent of all this stuff is people [TS]

  are accustomed to the dialog box is [TS]

  alerted in a certain way yes no okay [TS]

  cancel like there are interface [TS]

  standards that they're accustomed to and [TS]

  if your application deviates from those [TS]

  standards in any way there should be a [TS]

  reason for it maybe your carrot weather [TS]

  and you have a personality type thing [TS]

  and that's part of the selling point of [TS]

  your application fine but if your [TS]

  application is selling point it's not [TS]

  like there's a cost to defying [TS]

  expectations it causes people to pause [TS]

  and have to look at it and think about [TS]

  what the hit-and and like read it causes [TS]

  them to have to read where it's no one [TS]

  reads yes no or okay cancel if they see [TS]

  them a million times they just you know [TS]

  it becomes like a visual macro you just [TS]

  like oh I recognize that I don't know [TS]

  which thing I want to hit or even just a [TS]

  single button dismiss thing in iOS where [TS]

  the button is always labeled is okay and [TS]

  now suddenly that button has different [TS]

  text on it you're forced to read it you [TS]

  find out it says thanks you don't feel [TS]

  like thanking anybody and now you're [TS]

  annoyed so I would I would in general [TS]

  say there is no 100% safe way to inject [TS]

  personality into labels like that there [TS]

  are a lot of downsides and the only [TS]

  potential upsides are if your [TS]

  applications value proposition is based [TS]

  on its personality and whimsy which can [TS]

  be done but it's much trickier than you [TS]

  think it also be very careful when [TS]

  you're writing dialog text if you're a [TS]

  developer or if you're Apple mm-hmm [TS]

  that attributes malice or actions to the [TS]

  user or if they're in tributes its [TS]

  intent or actions to the user that may [TS]

  or may not be the case one of the most [TS]

  infuriating pieces of text and all of [TS]

  Mac OS is the dialog that comes up after [TS]

  it has a kernel panic and shuts down and [TS]

  reboots that says you shut down your [TS]

  computer because of a problem and a lot [TS]

  of times no you shut down my computer [TS]

  because of your problem it doesn't say [TS]

  that [TS]

  totally that it says your computer shut [TS]

  down doodles you shut down your computer [TS]

  yeah I agree with John that is not how I [TS]

  remember this are you sure I am Not sure [TS]

  I would check because ever I don't see [TS]

  it often but every time I see it I'm [TS]

  like oh I'm on fire you shut down my [TS]

  computer I didn't shut down my computer [TS]

  so so here's what the kernel panic you [TS]

  know the overlay the overlay that comes [TS]

  on in five languages when you get a [TS]

  kernel panic yeah it's not that it's [TS]

  it's the dialogue that shows up on the [TS]

  first boot after right okay but so [TS]

  anyway the overlay says your computer [TS]

  restarted because of a problems that may [TS]

  be what I'm remembering for that wording [TS]

  all right now the after your computer [TS]

  restarts marker was right I'm looking at [TS]

  this thing in Apple's website it says [TS]

  you shut down your computer because of a [TS]

  problem it's really it sets me on fire [TS]

  if I ever system run apple's website up [TS]

  we will put it in the show notes i'm [TS]

  assuming this is the current dialog but [TS]

  it's a Apple support document looks like [TS]

  it might be an old theme but yeah that's [TS]

  that's definitely at the current wording [TS]

  yeah maybe I was reading that as your [TS]

  because you know the the kernel panic [TS]

  one does say you're but the dialog [TS]

  versus you shut it doesn't even make [TS]

  sense [TS]

  it how would you shut down the computer [TS]

  like spontaneously because of a problem [TS]

  like is it just like all of a sudden you [TS]

  saw a problem and you reach for the plug [TS]

  in the wall and yanked it out like how [TS]

  is that even the thing that you could do [TS]

  because if you if you found a problem [TS]

  and you selected shut down you would [TS]

  never see this dialog box you know it's [TS]

  kind of like putting words in my mouth [TS]

  and it's like putting actions in my [TS]

  mouth it's like no I didn't do this you [TS]

  know you did this you know it like and [TS]

  it's like you know so when you're you [TS]

  know when you see an app that's like you [TS]

  know forcing you to say thanks or no I [TS]

  don't want to see your great deals [TS]

  I don't like great deals like that that [TS]

  is it seems like it might be cute or [TS]

  helpful or something and trust me it's [TS]

  not at all like it you have to be so [TS]

  careful with that stuff that you know [TS]

  and there is a there is an additional [TS]

  dollar by the way that says your [TS]

  computer was restarted because of a [TS]

  problem and then that one it says the [TS]

  you know ignore more info and move to [TS]

  trash for like an application they [TS]

  crashed like we see that one when an app [TS]

  crashes so there is one that is more [TS]

  you know let's blame me but the fact [TS]

  that there exists any dialog says you [TS]

  shut down your computer because of a [TS]

  problem but it's the dialogue that's [TS]

  asking whether you want to restore all [TS]

  the applications that were open so your [TS]

  choices are please reopen everything [TS]

  like it was before it canceled I'm sorry [TS]

  what reopen everything please reopen [TS]

  everything yeah I'm not a dialog box I [TS]

  don't have to put that like the button [TS]

  is not saying please the button says [TS]

  open and the cancel button says no [TS]

  thanks comma cancel oh I'm sorry it [TS]

  doesn't say no thanks comma cancel it [TS]

  says cancel because that's what cancel [TS]

  button say on them I'm not a button on [TS]

  person um yeah that's that's what it's [TS]

  asking you and so again if it's asking [TS]

  you that it means the entire thing [TS]

  abruptly stopped functioning and it [TS]

  realizes that abruptly stopped [TS]

  functioning because it didn't do all [TS]

  like the nice shutdown clean up stuff so [TS]

  the next time it starts up it says I [TS]

  don't see the nice shutdown clean up [TS]

  stuff which means things ended abruptly [TS]

  last time and I honestly don't think [TS]

  there's any user action that you could [TS]

  take other than if it knew somehow [TS]

  because of cameras that you had yank the [TS]

  cord out or flick the power switch the [TS]

  hard yourself even if it sees you do it [TS]

  it still shouldn't say that it's just [TS]

  it's just setting you on fire [TS]

  unnecessarily and how would it know it [TS]

  was because of a problem maybe you shut [TS]

  down your computer because you couldn't [TS]

  figure out any other way like you know [TS]

  you're you're in an experienced computer [TS]

  user and the only way you know how to [TS]

  turn it off is to hold down the power [TS]

  button for five seconds [TS]

  maybe you shut your computer as a [TS]

  statement yeah because of a problem [TS]

  wasn't a problem with your computer was [TS]

  just like a problem in the world I think [TS]

  you might be reading too much into this [TS]

  I think what the way I've always read [TS]

  this and why I haven't been perturbed by [TS]

  it is because the computer well I guess [TS]

  I can turn itself off but in this [TS]

  scenario of a kernel panic it doesn't [TS]

  turn itself off it is you that is [TS]

  physically turning the computer off and [TS]

  restarting it not always no default [TS]

  every boot itself doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  reboot it I didn't think it did I think [TS]

  it does now I think that's been the case [TS]

  for the last few years [TS]

  oh no you're right you know press a key [TS]

  you're wait a few seconds to continue [TS]

  starting oh no I guess you're right I [TS]

  guess you're right all I know is you [TS]

  guys are clearly from the Northeast or [TS]

  have lived there too long because you're [TS]

  employed assholes moving on before you [TS]

  move on like oh yeah and I want to [TS]

  iterate it's not it's not about [TS]

  politeness it's about the [TS]

  there are conventions for the user [TS]

  interface and anything that deviates the [TS]

  convention it's like whatever bill maybe [TS]

  things work like anything that deviates [TS]

  from the convention requires thinking [TS]

  and processing time and it's it's [TS]

  cognitive load for no benefit unless [TS]

  there is actual benefit of the [TS]

  personality application otherwise every [TS]

  time we look at dialogue we'd have to [TS]

  parse each person's you know politeness [TS]

  and phrasing and preambles stuff when we [TS]

  just want okay cancel or you know [TS]

  there's some standard buttons that say [TS]

  standard things that fit in a standard [TS]

  amount of space and we don't want to [TS]

  have to read them I actually do [TS]

  completely agree with you on that [TS]

  Chadd supports key rights when it comes [TS]

  to video games how much of a [TS]

  completionist eve each of you consider [TS]

  yourselves to be how much does it depend [TS]

  on the type of game scope of the game [TS]

  and your level of interest in it I will [TS]

  start by saying I am not at all a [TS]

  completionist and obviously I am I think [TS]

  mark when I fight over who is the least [TS]

  video game II person of the three of us [TS]

  but but I I do play video games from [TS]

  time to time as I think we mentioned [TS]

  last week the week before I've been [TS]

  getting back into breath of the wild but [TS]

  there whenever it is I beat Ganon at the [TS]

  end of breath of the wild if I don't [TS]

  have all 120 whatever it is shrines and [TS]

  if I don't have all 80 gazillion Quora [TS]

  Corki rock or whatever they're called [TS]

  seeds I am NOT gonna care I will be [TS]

  putting that game down and probably [TS]

  never playing it again and that's just [TS]

  me Marco since you are all so useless [TS]

  like me how do you treat this kind of in [TS]

  between you and a normal person I will [TS]

  try to be fairly complete as I'm playing [TS]

  but then I will usually reach a point at [TS]

  which my interest just Falls you know [TS]

  for a game that that can be quote beaten [TS]

  or that has like a main storyline that [TS]

  can be completed I do really want to [TS]

  compete that main storyline but like you [TS]

  I you know once I and on my way there I [TS]

  might be you know collecting as much as [TS]

  I possibly can like true like like like [TS]

  when playing mario odyssey i [TS]

  I really tried to get as many of the [TS]

  moons as possible like yeah you know as [TS]

  I'm going through each world [TS]

  I don't just fly away as soon as I can [TS]

  but then after you complete the main [TS]

  storyline you can go back and get a [TS]

  whole bunch more and I started doing [TS]

  that and I just haven't really continued [TS]

  yet and and I I intend to go back and [TS]

  play it I don't know when I will exactly [TS]

  cuz now I'm up I'm playing other games [TS]

  I don't know when I actually will but I [TS]

  do intend to still go back and do that I [TS]

  don't stop because I like decide I'm [TS]

  done with this game forever it just kind [TS]

  of happens like like stardew valley I [TS]

  plates already Valley very heavily for a [TS]

  long time and I intend to go back to it [TS]

  but the last time I played it was [TS]

  probably three months ago you know and I [TS]

  just haven't gone back to it yet but I [TS]

  do intend to I haven't had a kid yet I [TS]

  want to see you how that works so like [TS]

  you know I you know there's more I want [TS]

  to do in that game but like once I reach [TS]

  a certain point where I feel like I've [TS]

  done mostly everything there is to do I [TS]

  find it hard to motivate myself to go [TS]

  back and get like the last 10% you did [TS]

  have an actual kid what you mean is a [TS]

  pixelated kid yes all right just just to [TS]

  make that clear like I had a kid yet in [TS]

  stardew valley the game I was talking [TS]

  about during that sentence I just named [TS]

  the context freely where's Adam he's [TS]

  upstairs asleep so this this question [TS]

  doesn't really define what completionist [TS]

  means but I'm kind of with Marco and [TS]

  that like there's there's two strains oh [TS]

  I like Marco if I'm playing a narrative [TS]

  game that is trying to tell me a story [TS]

  and if I like the game well enough like [TS]

  you know that like I'm having fun [TS]

  playing it I do want to see how that [TS]

  story turns out but the modern practice [TS]

  of video games of basically said [TS]

  providing a tremendous amount of things [TS]

  to do outside the main story means that [TS]

  for me to actually 100% clear game by [TS]

  getting all the things that you can get [TS]

  and doing all the things that you can do [TS]

  has actually become a lot harder over [TS]

  the years both in terms of time [TS]

  investment and skill it used to be that [TS]

  if you finish a story then there'd be a [TS]

  couple of ancillary things to do but [TS]

  Mario Odyssey is like this story is like [TS]

  one-eighth of the game and then like if [TS]

  you really wanted to complete it in [TS]

  terms of hours spent and effort required [TS]

  the real game begins after you finish [TS]

  the story mode so I did finish the story [TS]

  mode of Mariotti [TS]

  and I did enjoy it and I do like the [TS]

  fact that there's a lot more after that [TS]

  and then you can do it kind of in any [TS]

  order that you want but I don't think I [TS]

  will 100% clear Mario does he ever [TS]

  contrast that with mario sunshine which [TS]

  was not as good at Mario game but any [TS]

  stretch of the imagination is Odyssey [TS]

  and yet [TS]

  under percent cleared sunshine because [TS]

  the amount of stuff that you had to do [TS]

  beyond the main story in sunshine seems [TS]

  so much more tractable to me and because [TS]

  the things they had you doing we're like [TS]

  one annoying collection quest and a [TS]

  bunch of levels that were hard but of [TS]

  the variety that they'd already had that [TS]

  I really enjoyed and so it seemed like a [TS]

  thing that I could do and lo and behold [TS]

  I did do it [TS]

  similarly with Zelda games uh you know I [TS]

  will always finish the story enemies [TS]

  Elda game i love zelda games 100% [TS]

  cleared a couple of Zelda's but not all [TS]

  of them because some yeah especially as [TS]

  time goes on when I start adding even [TS]

  more and more collect it was like I'm [TS]

  never gonna get all the coal Rock seeds [TS]

  and in breath of the wild I won't I just [TS]

  it's never gonna happen right but I [TS]

  probably will do eventually all the [TS]

  shrines and that's kind of and that's [TS]

  that's a game that I love it's not a [TS]

  game that I love I'll do the story and I [TS]

  feel like it done with it what if the [TS]

  game has no story the game has no story [TS]

  I just play it when it's fun and it [TS]

  stops being fun I'll stop playing it [TS]

  like I I feel like I will actually [TS]

  continue to play a game after it stops [TS]

  being fun to her I'm really close to the [TS]

  end of a narrative story just because I [TS]

  want to see how it ends that's kind of [TS]

  true like movies and books too we [TS]

  sometimes you're like well I'm invested [TS]

  and I know there's only three chapters [TS]

  left and even those books kind of [TS]

  knowing me I still want to see how it [TS]

  ends and so you'll power your way [TS]

  through so that's that's kind of my take [TS]

  on completion ISM anybody games thanks [TS]

  to our sponsors this week aftershocks [TS]

  Backblaze and jammed now and we'll talk [TS]

  to you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental oh it was accidental [TS]

  Johnny research Marco and Casey wouldn't [TS]

  let him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at ADP FM and if you're into [TS]

  Twitter you can follow them [TS]

  CAS URL is s so that's Casey less ma RC [TS]

  o AR m auntie Marco Arment SI r AC [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  Casey you're back at work now yeah tell [TS]

  us about that so you're you're full-time [TS]

  back now brightly no that's normal [TS]

  no no no no I'm spending the month of [TS]

  March easing my way in so as we record [TS]

  this last week I did a sum total of one [TS]

  day of work and I did two half days [TS]

  which basically means I went in when [TS]

  Declan was a preschool and then this [TS]

  week I did full-day Tuesday but only [TS]

  half of it at work I did the rest from [TS]

  home so you can guess where this is [TS]

  going I went to work when Declan was a [TS]

  preschool then I came home and was here [TS]

  working on my iMac for the remainder of [TS]

  the day and then tomorrow I am doing [TS]

  sort of kind of the same we have an [TS]

  appointment to get Mikayla's passport [TS]

  for some events that are happening in a [TS]

  couple of months that I believe I'll be [TS]

  seeing both of you at so we need to get [TS]

  that squared away but this week I'm [TS]

  doing two days next week I'm doing three [TS]

  whole days and I think the week after [TS]

  that I'm actually ramped up to full-time [TS]

  now I might be doing some of that from [TS]

  home here and there which is not what I [TS]

  usually did I usually pretty much only [TS]

  worked in the office but it's a week [TS]

  after next that I will be a real real [TS]

  adult worker again and it's going fine [TS]

  it's a pretty understanding job letting [TS]

  you ease back into it I've never even [TS]

  heard of a company doing that this is [TS]

  the second time yeah like the last time [TS]

  I took less time easing my way into it [TS]

  and I also didn't take an unpaid leave [TS]

  but they were fairly cool about it both [TS]

  both the last job and this job so that's [TS]

  good [TS]

  that's pretty cool yeah that's I don't [TS]

  think I've ever had a job that would [TS]

  give me that usually and most of my jobs [TS]

  I had trouble of taking vacation days [TS]

  let alone like doing this yeah I mean [TS]

  and to be fair I didn't as much asked is [TS]

  said this is what I was planning to do [TS]

  and waited for somebody to say no and [TS]

  nobody said no and that that's been nice [TS]

  and I mean the place I work it's it's [TS]

  pretty no I was gonna say chill but I [TS]

  sound like a tool I don't know it's very [TS]

  relaxed and and it's I think in part [TS]

  because it's not consulting like most of [TS]

  the last few jobs I've had [TS]

  there's a lot less urgency and it's kind [TS]

  of okay if I'm gone that being said you [TS]

  know my I'm easing back in terms of [TS]

  hours worked I am not easing back in [TS]

  terms of stress level and need for me to [TS]

  be paying attention to things again the [TS]

  staff that I work with is excellent but [TS]

  at least on the iOS side but is very [TS]

  young and that's not a bad thing at all [TS]

  but that means that they've kind of been [TS]

  queuing up a whole band a whole bunch of [TS]

  questions to ask and and how do I do [TS]

  this what should we do here what are we [TS]

  gonna do about this other thing and and [TS]

  so I have been in high demand in the [TS]

  little bit of time I've been working [TS]

  which is a good problem the elementary [TS]

  school students what the hell is very [TS]

  young man when you're one is one is she [TS]

  started as an intern and is still in [TS]

  school in his part-time so she is what [TS]

  major version of pearl were they born [TS]

  during it so are you at the stage now or [TS]

  anyone in their twenties counts is very [TS]

  young getting there I mean my birthday [TS]

  Saturday for goodness sakes I'm turning [TS]

  I'm getting old John gettin old hey I'll [TS]

  be that old in a couple more months so [TS]

  the 29 year olds at work are very young [TS]

  no no one of the intern just turned 21 [TS]

  at the end of last year she she was born [TS]

  in 96 I guess which is bananas oh my god [TS]

  she's younger than Weezer [TS]

  yeah so so yeah so the the intern who is [TS]

  now part-time was born in 96 and we just [TS]

  hired a guy who I don't know how old he [TS]

  is but I would guess 25 or less so and [TS]

  that's that's the whole staff as me and [TS]

  in these - well the whole i/os staff [TS]

  that is it so it's me in these other two [TS]

  so and they're great they really are [TS]

  great and I'm really really lucky to [TS]

  have them as my co-workers but they're [TS]

  they're young and that's not a bad thing [TS]

  it's just you know is the there are [TS]

  things that you only get from being in [TS]

  the trenches in any sort of code base B [TS]

  it iOS or otherwise for a long time and [TS]

  so I am the old man in every measurable [TS]

  way and and that's just my life I need [TS]

  to adjust you so here's a question do [TS]

  you have anybody yet who is either so [TS]

  young [TS]

  or just so new to iOS programming that [TS]

  they have no objective-c experience that [TS]

  the only has 50 experience I'm trying to [TS]

  think if the if the part-time person did [TS]

  I think she had done some Objective C in [TS]

  the past if I'm not mistaken but it was [TS]

  a toss-up cuz I almost wonder like that [TS]

  might make things easier right like if [TS]

  you had if you if you have like if you [TS]

  try to maintain an all Swift code base [TS]

  or mostly Swift code base and you have [TS]

  somebody who doesn't have any mental [TS]

  baggage of Objective C that actually [TS]

  might be a good thing right [TS]

  I don't know I I totally understand [TS]

  where you're coming from and I'm not at [TS]

  all saying you're wrong I really don't [TS]

  know because it's one of those things [TS]

  like do you really need to understand [TS]

  what a pointer is to be able to write [TS]

  code today and I know you're both [TS]

  probably gonna jump all over me but like [TS]

  if you think about it on a surface level [TS]

  in a lot of cases you don't really need [TS]

  to know what a pointer is now I I [TS]

  strongly believe that you do so that's [TS]

  all I'm like um I'm presenting an [TS]

  argument I don't actually believe in but [TS]

  you could make an argument that you know [TS]

  you don't totally need a pointer to [TS]

  understand what what the concept of a [TS]

  pointer is in order to be able to write [TS]

  Swift yeah I would totally argue that [TS]

  actually yeah and and I still think it's [TS]

  important to understand what a pointer [TS]

  is it's important to understand these [TS]

  sorts of things and I think to some [TS]

  degree you get a lot more of that from [TS]

  objective-c and not only because you [TS]

  have stupid asterisks everywhere but [TS]

  what I'm what a meandering toward is I [TS]

  think having an understanding of what [TS]

  makes Objective C Objective C helps you [TS]

  understand what makes cocoa and cocoa [TS]

  touch cocoa into cocoa touch does that [TS]

  make any sense at all yeah I can see [TS]

  that although I I would also suggest [TS]

  that like like I mean in my time working [TS]

  around other programmers I was fortunate [TS]

  enough that to usually work around [TS]

  really smart people but not a hundred [TS]

  percent of the time and and I was always [TS]

  sometimes really surprised how little [TS]

  somebody could know about programming [TS]

  and be working full-time as a programmer [TS]

  oh yeah and I think and I'm not saying [TS]

  this till I say like oh they're so dumb [TS]

  like that just there are a lot of [TS]

  programming jobs out there [TS]

  that are pretty forgiving of having a [TS]

  very shallow understanding of it or [TS]

  pretty forgiving of bad coding or [TS]

  mistakes or a leaking memory or things [TS]

  like that Len and iOS is a huge sample [TS]

  that like you know the when the App [TS]

  Store was this huge explosion gold rush [TS]

  thing back you know ten years ago and [TS]

  you know in the interviewing year since [TS]

  like a lot of people learned objective-c [TS]

  just enough to get an app out there and [TS]

  just like kind of stumbling through and [TS]

  I mean heck that was basically me when I [TS]

  first started to and I mean I had to see [TS]

  background so I knew I knew that kind of [TS]

  stuff but like there was a lot of people [TS]

  who start knowing a lot less and can get [TS]

  an app in the store because if they [TS]

  leave memory all over the place it [TS]

  doesn't matter at the scale they are or [TS]

  like you know like if their app gets [TS]

  kicked out of the background cuz it [TS]

  crashes in the background you don't even [TS]

  notice you launch it again and there it [TS]

  is especially it's actually yeah it's [TS]

  actually a fairly forgiving environment [TS]

  and and the tools now protect you so [TS]

  much from doing things that are too [TS]

  horrible that you can actually get by [TS]

  pretty far without having knowledge of [TS]

  things like pointers and memory and [TS]

  stuff like that yeah so and it's also [TS]

  you know to some degree like what what [TS]

  level are you hiring right like when we [TS]

  hired our newest developer you know we [TS]

  were hiring somebody we were intending [TS]

  to hire someone that was a bit junior [TS]

  and and so I don't recall how this went [TS]

  during his interview I did interview him [TS]

  but like I [TS]

  I'm sure asked him you know what's a [TS]

  retain cycle how do you create it why [TS]

  would you well how would you [TS]

  accidentally create it and you know how [TS]

  would you find it how would you fix it [TS]

  and if I'm hiring a junior developer [TS]

  they can get that wrong and I [TS]

  potentially would be okay with it like [TS]

  you know I would hope that they would at [TS]

  least somewhat understand what I'm [TS]

  talking about but they can have a wrong [TS]

  answer and as long as they have a vague [TS]

  understanding and I feel like they're [TS]

  coachable and which is a very corporate [TS]

  thing to say well yeah exactly we can [TS]

  have a coaching opportunity in the [TS]

  parking lot after we stand up all right [TS]

  you say you have worked with me you see [TS]

  what I'm driving at like I I don't think [TS]

  that that beings I'm agreeing with you [TS]

  and roundabout way you know I don't [TS]

  think being super experienced and having [TS]

  a deep deep deep knowledge of like the [TS]

  history of objective-c and [TS]

  and why is message-passing different [TS]

  than calling a method you know why is [TS]

  well I don't think you need all of that [TS]

  but I do know it is fair enough but I do [TS]

  think it is assistive in understanding [TS]

  like I said earlier you know what makes [TS]

  what makes Coco the way it is it's [TS]

  because it's it's in large ways because [TS]

  of what made Objective C what it is and [TS]

  I don't I don't think it's necessary [TS]

  what is the thing that's it's necessary [TS]

  but not sufficient provided I screwed [TS]

  that up didn't I sufficient but not [TS]

  necessary you get what I'm driving at is [TS]

  it sufficient but not necessary [TS]

  that's what Johnson always says yeah [TS]

  totally but anyway so the point is that [TS]

  you know it's it's useful to have but [TS]

  would not require John given very quiet [TS]

  any thoughts about this this is a [TS]

  specific instance of the more general [TS]

  question of whether not whether you [TS]

  should have but what the value is of [TS]

  having a background in the fundamentals [TS]

  when it comes to the everyday craft of [TS]

  doing a thing like so can I do a [TS]

  particular task without knowing the [TS]

  history cultural baggage and all the [TS]

  other lower levels of abstraction that [TS]

  I'm building upon the answer is yes you [TS]

  can you can be a craftsman at a higher [TS]

  level of abstraction without knowledge [TS]

  of detailed knowledge of history and [TS]

  culture and all the lower layers but [TS]

  there is most certainly value in knowing [TS]

  all that stuff I mean you could take it [TS]

  just auto mechanic right there's lots of [TS]

  things that you can be trained to do to [TS]

  a car without knowing the details of the [TS]

  levels of abstraction that you're not [TS]

  dealing with without knowing the history [TS]

  of internal combustion engines [TS]

  particularly the history of the features [TS]

  of the internal combustion engine for a [TS]

  particular make of car you don't need [TS]

  that background to be really good at [TS]

  doing the brakes changing the oil even [TS]

  disassembling and reassembling a [TS]

  particular model of engine if you know [TS]

  how to do that at that level you're fine [TS]

  there you know but you know so the gave [TS]

  a computer programming the question is [TS]

  do I need a computer science background [TS]

  and a knowledge of algorithms data [TS]

  structures electrical engineering [TS]

  circuit design basics of electronics [TS]

  like so you need to have all that to [TS]

  write an IRS [TS]

  hell no you do not but having that [TS]

  background is valuable and makes you [TS]

  better at the job of writing an iOS [TS]

  application particularly when as [TS]

  inevitably happens things go wrong and [TS]

  you have to figure out why they're going [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  that's when whatever level of [TS]

  abstraction you're working at starts to [TS]

  fall apart and you find yourself looking [TS]

  at memory addresses in a debugger [TS]

  assuming you even know enough to [TS]

  navigate a debugger and if you don't [TS]

  know what a pointer is it just feels [TS]

  like gibberish and it feels you feel [TS]

  lost right but if you understand all [TS]

  those lower levels you can drop down a [TS]

  level and drop down a little further and [TS]

  like and if you're really good to know [TS]

  the whole stack in your omigosh type [TS]

  person you can look at machine code and [TS]

  figure out what the hell's going on [TS]

  right and even if you're not though even [TS]

  if you're not like someone who really [TS]

  can navigate the whole stack just [TS]

  knowing how in general computers work [TS]

  from top to bottom lets you understand [TS]

  at least what parts you don't know and [TS]

  where you might go to look up something [TS]

  and to understand I know what I'm [TS]

  looking at here I just don't know [TS]

  specifically what it says but I [TS]

  understand where it came from and I [TS]

  understand if there's a part of it that [TS]

  I need to figure out I know where to [TS]

  look for it or you know and all the way [TS]

  down to like hopefully none of us get [TS]

  down to the hardware level or you got to [TS]

  figure out what what's wrong at the [TS]

  hardware level but I still feel like [TS]

  even that which probably won't come up [TS]

  in debugging a program is useful to know [TS]

  because it explains many of the features [TS]

  higher up just as you were saying [TS]

  knowing about objective-c explains a lot [TS]

  of the weird features of Swift like if [TS]

  you don't know about objective-c it may [TS]

  be seem weird that that Swift has these [TS]

  things and what the hell is a table C [TS]

  mean and why is that even there and what [TS]

  is it what do you mean by an object [TS]

  being backed by the objective-c runtime [TS]

  versus one that isn't and like what is [TS]

  that you know you can get by without it [TS]

  but there is most certainly value for it [TS]

  and I think the question when people ask [TS]

  about this whether it's should it have [TS]

  to know pointers are doing you have to [TS]

  have a computer science background is [TS]

  they want to know if it's like a gating [TS]

  factor and I don't think it is I think [TS]

  you can actually be a successful a good [TS]

  programmer but I think all that [TS]

  background that you're like do I have to [TS]

  know this there is value for it it's [TS]

  just a question of how much value does [TS]

  it have for the thing that you are doing [TS]

  if you are working at Apple and [TS]

  frameworks it's probably more important [TS]

  than you have [TS]

  background if you're working it up on [TS]

  the compiler team yet more important if [TS]

  you are designing a hardware and [TS]

  software system from top to bottom [TS]

  really really important so you just kind [TS]

  of have to decide how much how much of [TS]

  the [TS]

  the [TS]

  as we've already discussed I have my [TS]

  paneled setup of Windows and in the one [TS]

  accent come from it's not a Connecticut [TS]

  thing I wasn't aware I had one the word [TS]

  the word for the thing you cook in and [TS]

  the first syllable for your intrument of [TS]

  windows PA ne l vs. PA in Tamil right [TS]

  what how do you pronounce it not the [TS]

  same way as the as the thing that you [TS]

  cooking he says panel yeah exactly [TS]

  what do you cook in a pan oh not a pan i [TS]

  I'm you say them both the same you say I [TS]

  cook in a pan and I have a bunch of [TS]

  panels yeah so how would you say it I [TS]

  cook in a pan I have a bunch of panels [TS]

  that sounded these are you trolling [TS]

  sounded exactly the same analyze the [TS]

  waveforms and panels pan panels Marco [TS]

  you said what do you have I cook in a [TS]

  pan yeah and I have panels mmm [TS]

  interesting middle ground they're [TS]

  slightly different from each other I [TS]

  don't understand what it's just what [TS]

  being colorblind feels like all right so [TS]

  we talked a lot last week about [TS]

  onboarding screens and why they're there [TS]

  what is their purpose whether they're [TS]

  good whether they're bad etc and I was [TS]

  informed that the reason that these [TS]

  screens are happening is because of gdpr [TS]

  which I know almost nothing about and [TS]

  I've been a little busy and so I am a [TS]

  poor chief summarizer in chief but [TS]

  nevertheless GPG DPR is a general data [TS]

  protection regulation which is something [TS]

  that the EU passed recently and has come [TS]

  into effect or is coming into effect [TS]

  very very very soon it becomes [TS]

  enforceable from the 25th of May 2018 so [TS]

  we are coming up on it now I guess this [TS]

  doesn't apply to Britain too soon anyway [TS]

  the point is Faline is sorry everybody [TS]

  the point is apparently it's it talks [TS]

  about how companies store your data and [TS]

  tries to give you more control of your [TS]

  data and I've been told that that is the [TS]

  genesis of all of these onboarding [TS]

  screens [TS]

  sure if I buy that because I bet that [TS]

  screen is gonna be everywhere not just [TS]

  in Europe and it's not like Apple is [TS]

  above doing a region-specific you eyes I [TS]

  do a bunch of stuff I think it's only [TS]

  visible in China for instance [TS]

  interesting maybe yeah on the other hand [TS]

  I feel like this gdpr thing which I'm [TS]

  basically just learning about now [TS]

  because I didn't actually follow your [TS]

  link in the show notes [TS]

  reminds me of the European cookie [TS]

  regulation stuff do you remember that oh [TS]

  yeah remember I think it's throne effect [TS]

  like if you go to they got a throw up a [TS]

  pop-up it says just so you know this [TS]

  website is gonna you know use cookies to [TS]

  keep track of you agree or disagree [TS]

  right there's another example of [TS]

  properly motivated but ill-conceived [TS]

  legislation where the motivation is pure [TS]

  like there's these computers and they [TS]

  potentially could be storing us personal [TS]

  information and tracking us which by the [TS]

  way they totally do let's do something [TS]

  with the law to deal with that but this [TS]

  you know the impulse to do this comes [TS]

  really early on in the history of the [TS]

  web when the scariest thing out there is [TS]

  a cookie right and the legislation is I [TS]

  know let's make every website in the [TS]

  world annoying forever [TS]

  and let's never do anything else related [TS]

  to other kinds of tracking that'll be [TS]

  much much worse than cookies and you [TS]

  know like so many other laws like it [TS]

  just sits there until someone you know [TS]

  who's gonna have the motivation say you [TS]

  know we should stop doing that because [TS]

  it's dumb or like we should realize the [TS]

  folly of this particular technique of [TS]

  trying to get people to grapple with [TS]

  privacy because if you if you say this [TS]

  is the this is the way we should deal [TS]

  with everything then you gotta have [TS]

  stuff like that for all forms of [TS]

  JavaScript every kind of local storage [TS]

  all the flash based super cookie [TS]

  whatever thing it just it never ends and [TS]

  you know you'd have to plow through 50 [TS]

  layers of click-wrap as they call it to [TS]

  get to the website that you want so if [TS]

  there's some new kind of legislation [TS]

  says by the way every time you launch an [TS]

  application go throw a thing in someone [TS]

  sites which I don't think that's what [TS]

  this gdpr thing says but if there were [TS]

  such a thing I think that would be sort [TS]

  of the modern equivalent of the cookie [TS]

  legislation perhaps motivated by a noble [TS]

  intent but ill-conceived badly [TS]

  implemented and sure to age [TS]

  so we'll say maybe when these things [TS]

  roll out and Apple talks about them on [TS]

  stage maybe they will make it pitch in [TS]

  that direction but as far as I can tell [TS]

  it looks a lot more like what we talked [TS]

  about last show a way for Apple to [TS]

  advertise one of its competitive [TS]

  advantages and to provide some [TS]

  reassurance and to explain what the [TS]

  applications do in a more clear way than [TS]

  just showing a nebulous view yeah we'll [TS]

  see but supposedly that is that is kind [TS]

  of the genesis for this there's also [TS]

  going to be a link in the show notes [TS]

  Smashing Magazine has how gdpr will [TS]

  change the way you develop which talks [TS]

  about you know kind of how how all this [TS]

  will affect developers and the rumblings [TS]

  I've heard through various sources is [TS]

  that this is a bigger deal than any of [TS]

  us Americans are realizing because it [TS]

  doesn't seem to apply to us but it [TS]

  applies to any of us that have you know [TS]

  code that reaches more than one country [TS]

  in more than just America so and by the [TS]

  way I think it is possible to make good [TS]

  legislation to protect consumers privacy [TS]

  it's just really hard to do when it [TS]

  comes to tech because you know the [TS]

  tendency is to pick whatever the [TS]

  specifics of the technology are at the [TS]

  moment and attack them and demonize them [TS]

  one really it's a much more general [TS]

  concern and historically speaking [TS]

  legislative bodies I had a good track [TS]

  record with legislating technology [TS]

  essentially like understanding what the [TS]

  underlying issue is rather than [TS]

  attacking a specific technology as the [TS]

  one and only vehicle through which this [TS]

  issue will manifest and that's never [TS]

  true like maybe that you know cookies [TS]

  were how privacy manifested a long long [TS]

  time ago privacy issues manifest in the [TS]

  following decades in so many more [TS]

  important ways than cookies and yet the [TS]

  legislation is just sits there staring [TS]

  at cookies which is why you can't really [TS]

  legislate too technical details you have [TS]

  to figure out what it is that we're [TS]

  really concerned about and make a law [TS]

  such that it applies in a useful way to [TS]

  any future technology but also at the [TS]

  same time doesn't preclude future [TS]

  technologies that may run afoul of the [TS]

  letter of law if not the spirit making [TS]

  laws is hard making laws about [TS]

  technologies doubly hard one way to help [TS]

  with this by the way I'm saying this [TS]

  most from a u.s. perspective I have no [TS]

  idea Europe is perhaps take the advice [TS]

  and consultation of people who know [TS]

  things about [TS]

  technology a vested interest in one way [TS]

  the other like kind of like talking to [TS]

  mathematicians and cryptographic experts [TS]

  when you when you make any laws related [TS]

  to cryptography which the u.s. seems [TS]

  completely incapable of doing or they [TS]

  talk to them and ignore what they say [TS]

  and said I think I'll listen to industry [TS]

  lobbying groups instead they have all [TS]

  the money so they must know what they're [TS]

  talking about I mean to be fair like we [TS]

  can't even agree that facts are facts [TS]

  I'm thinking back to a you know more [TS]

  naive time when we could simply just [TS]

  complain about how technologically [TS]

  illiterate our legislative bodies are [TS]

  now we have much more pressing concerns [TS]

  and now I'm sad thanks for that John [TS]

  alright last week we talked about how if [TS]

  you are a member of one or thirty slack [TS]

  teams you can actually a little no in [TS]

  fact you can access slack via IRC [TS]

  I don't know when this announcement [TS]

  actually happened but as it turns out we [TS]

  got word within moments of releasing the [TS]

  episode that that's going away now [TS]

  though it has been disabled for slack [TS]

  teams that haven't enabled it and I [TS]

  think it will be the it will be phased [TS]

  out in the next some duration of time so [TS]

  whoops [TS]

  I'm not surprised by this because it it [TS]

  totally seems like a thing that slack [TS]

  might do early on as part of it let's [TS]

  let's make sure you have no excuse not [TS]

  to use slack right and then as slack [TS]

  becomes more successful and as they can [TS]

  compare the statistics of how many [TS]

  people use our IRC gateway versus how [TS]

  much does it take to maintain it versus [TS]

  how much does it help our you know [TS]

  strategic intent of the company it you [TS]

  know it's probably used by a vanishingly [TS]

  small percentage of slack's customers [TS]

  they no longer are in that mode where [TS]

  they need to convince people to use [TS]

  slack because the ball started rolling [TS]

  and it probably does take some amount to [TS]

  maintain and it's just a distraction so [TS]

  kind of make sure it makes sense that it [TS]

  goes away but I bet if you use it you're [TS]

  probably pretty annoyed by that indeed [TS]

  so that happened coincidentally right [TS]

  around the time we were bringing up on [TS]

  the show its head hey you can do this [TS]

  too [TS]

  moving on Amazon's Alexa is gaining a [TS]

  new follow up mode which no longer [TS]

  requires a trigger word after every [TS]

  request so what'll happen is Alexa will [TS]

  listen for five seconds after your [TS]

  previous request to see if you're [TS]

  wanting to ask another question the blue [TS]

  ring on your echo will remain lit and it [TS]

  will indicate the cheese to listen [TS]

  in this time period you can ask her [TS]

  another question otherwise she'll go [TS]

  back to sleep mode that's cool [TS]

  see this to me this is it sounds cool [TS]

  until you actually think about how that [TS]

  works in practice and I think you can [TS]

  actually label it now but the problem [TS]

  with that is it's not addressing what [TS]

  you actually want which is what you [TS]

  actually want is to say cylinder play el [TS]

  Scorcho by Weezer and turn the volume to [TS]

  five you know like you want to be able [TS]

  to do multiple commands in one sentence [TS]

  or in one command and they can't do that [TS]

  right now none of them can as far as I [TS]

  know and that's what you actually want [TS]

  what this feature does is hey cylinder [TS]

  play Oh score sure by Weezer and then it [TS]

  says okay and then it starts playing [TS]

  like you don't want that like that is [TS]

  not like I don't think it's stopping on [TS]

  the command I think all it's doing is I [TS]

  mean it's my reading of this article is [TS]

  all it's doing is it will immediately [TS]

  start playing the song that you asked [TS]

  for but for the next five seconds [TS]

  anything else you say will try to [TS]

  interpret as a command as if you had pre [TS]

  fixed it with a cylinder right but I'm [TS]

  like I'm pretty sure then the volume [TS]

  still stays ducked and it's just like I [TS]

  feel like the the percentage of the time [TS]

  that's going to actually do what you [TS]

  want versus the percentage of the time [TS]

  that it's going to either keep listening [TS]

  something you say afterwards that you [TS]

  didn't intend for it to be a command or [TS]

  just delay what you were trying to do or [TS]

  do something or like you thought it was [TS]

  still listening give it another command [TS]

  but the five seconds had just ended like [TS]

  I feel like the failure rate of that to [TS]

  do what people actually want is going to [TS]

  be way way too high to be acceptable [TS]

  like it's just it's not going to be good [TS]

  enough enough of the time whereas what [TS]

  like and it's also like to me that's not [TS]

  smart [TS]

  that's just like a very small [TS]

  implementation detail that's not [TS]

  actually making the service smarter but [TS]

  we actually need is for all these voice [TS]

  assistants to become smarter and to [TS]

  recognize compound commands that's what [TS]

  people actually want play el Scorcho by [TS]

  Weezer and turn the volume to five set [TS]

  of rice timer for 10 minutes and a pasta [TS]

  timer for seven minutes this is what [TS]

  people actually want to do and so you [TS]

  know little trees like this like that's [TS]

  a dumb hack [TS]

  really what we need is for the the for [TS]

  the voices isn't to get better to [TS]

  actually recognize multiple commands the [TS]

  way humans will actually give them so [TS]

  this is also not what I was asking for [TS]

  last week I think that's why I was sent [TS]

  to us as follow-up what well I was [TS]

  asking for was context awareness such [TS]

  that follow-up commands could be aware [TS]

  of what you asked for previously [TS]

  interpret your subsequent commands in [TS]

  light of what you had just asked it [TS]

  based on like like the way a person [TS]

  would if you say something to a person [TS]

  an hour later you see something else [TS]

  there's no way they're gonna connect [TS]

  that to the context of the last thing [TS]

  you said to them but if you say [TS]

  something to them and then add an [TS]

  addendum two seconds later they have of [TS]

  the context of the first command you [TS]

  know to understand what you mean and the [TS]

  the key part of that is that the second [TS]

  thing that you say is not itself a [TS]

  complete command it relies on the [TS]

  knowledge of the context that's why I [TS]

  said last week that it probably requires [TS]

  some more local hardware because you [TS]

  would want I'm at least for privacy [TS]

  reasons or whatever you'd want some some [TS]

  of that local context awareness to [TS]

  happen you know locally you don't need [TS]

  the server to keep track of like your [TS]

  session or whatever so we can understand [TS]

  that I think we keep some of that [TS]

  locally compound commands would also be [TS]

  good and actually seems much easier to [TS]

  me than what I'm asking for because like [TS]

  it's two commands and there's a joiner [TS]

  and you can figure it out and break it [TS]

  up into pieces but I think it's more [TS]

  natural to have a conversation to hone [TS]

  in on what you want because that's what [TS]

  you do with other people then to [TS]

  formulate even a single command let [TS]

  alone a compound command as if as I said [TS]

  a couple weeks ago you're playing a [TS]

  verbal text adventure where maybe you [TS]

  don't have to get the syntax just right [TS]

  but you understand that you're issuing a [TS]

  command and now you maybe even issue [TS]

  compound commands but it's not the way [TS]

  you would yell them to have the room for [TS]

  Marco to add something to your shopping [TS]

  list you would you don't you don't have [TS]

  to formulate a command for Marco you can [TS]

  basically say it in any way that you [TS]

  want including addendums and revisions [TS]

  and you know what never mind about i [TS]

  just get the other thing that you can [TS]

  say stuff like that and it knows what [TS]

  the heck you're talking about and the [TS]

  cylinder does not and that is a really [TS]

  tall order delay mode or follow-up mode [TS]

  or whatever is not close to that but it [TS]

  least shows then the next shows that [TS]

  they understand that the current mode of [TS]

  wake wake wake word or wake phrase [TS]

  followed by single command [TS]

  followed by I forget you exist is pretty [TS]

  primitive also like I feel like this is [TS]

  this kind of has like a Simon Says [TS]

  problem where like if you if you get [TS]

  accustomed to not saying the wake word [TS]

  before every command you give that [TS]

  doesn't work all the time like you can't [TS]

  say cylinder play out square by tweezer [TS]

  and then 10 seconds later say volume 5 [TS]

  because it won't recognize it yeah yeah [TS]

  say Simon Says volume 5 you gotta say [TS]

  cylinder volume right and it's like but [TS]

  but sometimes you don't have to say that [TS]

  like if you say it within 5 seconds of [TS]

  the previous command being completed [TS]

  then you can omit the word cylinder and [TS]

  it's like well that's like that's just [TS]

  gonna be confusing like that's what you [TS]

  know it's gonna trip you up when you're [TS]

  like it's gonna increase your error rate [TS]

  like this is okay this is this is just [TS]

  one of the reasons why this isn't a [TS]

  solution I I feel like in at a high [TS]

  level I think what kind of makes me sad [TS]

  about the voice assistant market is that [TS]

  all of us like Apple fans are accustomed [TS]

  to somebody being you know historically [TS]

  Apple being really good at designing [TS]

  really smart software and really good [TS]

  software experiences and the rest of the [TS]

  industry has always been pretty crappy [TS]

  overall if there's been a couple of [TS]

  bright spots here there but not many and [TS]

  I feel like like we're all having to use [TS]

  like the like Amazon and Google stuff [TS]

  and Amazon and Google have always been [TS]

  pretty rough especially Amazon pretty [TS]

  rough at user interaction design and and [TS]

  software usability design and what we're [TS]

  seeing here is just like you know tech [TS]

  companies making stuff that's mediocre [TS]

  which is what we've always seen an apple [TS]

  is always the one who could save us from [TS]

  that but unfortunately in this [TS]

  particular market they just seem not [TS]

  capable of that for whatever reason and [TS]

  that just makes me sad like it's like [TS]

  usually Apple will be the ones to save [TS]

  us and to make like the really good [TS]

  thing for people like us who cared about [TS]

  good experiences and all the details and [TS]

  everything and invoice systems they they [TS]

  just aren't capable of doing that for [TS]

  whatever reason oh it's kind of sad I [TS]

  continue to think that this is much more [TS]

  in Google's wheelhouse than apples [TS]

  because yes it's a part of user [TS]

  interface design but specifically this [TS]

  this realm of translating words that a [TS]

  human comes up [TS]

  up with into an intent is what the [TS]

  Google search box is all about it [TS]

  frustrates some of us because it no [TS]

  longer works like AltaVista where you [TS]

  can formulate like a boolean query with [TS]

  exact substring matching and and get [TS]

  predictable results but that Google [TS]

  search box is all about saying people [TS]

  just type lots of stuff there and you [TS]

  can type things there and concise I'm [TS]

  still amazed that the Google search box [TS]

  I type things there and it finds what I [TS]

  meant for it to find and I don't even [TS]

  know how it's doing it like I didn't [TS]

  it's not it's you know how did you get [TS]

  what I was trying you know you go to the [TS]

  page or whatever like none of those [TS]

  words are on this page like you somehow [TS]

  figured out what I meant I granted it's [TS]

  still a single command in response and [TS]

  it's not a conversation but Google was [TS]

  founded on that strength of going beyond [TS]

  the sort of simple direct computer [TS]

  search to intelligent interpretation of [TS]

  human generated words and translating [TS]

  that to an intent and satisfying the [TS]

  request [TS]

  despite spelling errors weird phrasing [TS]

  you know the foibles of humans right and [TS]

  the verbal one of that now that [TS]

  speech-to-text is as good as it is it [TS]

  Maps very well on to the search problem [TS]

  in that you have to figure out intent [TS]

  and you can get the words from it pretty [TS]

  well and you have to figure out intent [TS]

  and same thing with spelling errors same [TS]

  thing with like you know homonyms or [TS]

  whatever that google is good at figuring [TS]

  that that's always been google's [TS]

  strength so I totally look to them to be [TS]

  the ones to figure to figure out this [TS]

  aspect of user interface before Apple [TS]

  and I think they are doing it better [TS]

  than Apple but I agree that all of them [TS]

  are are not not as good as I could help [TS]

  like Apple is way behind and Amazon and [TS]

  Google have been ahead but I'm waiting [TS]

  for them both to take like the next [TS]

  small step we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  Backblaze go to Backblaze comm slash ATP [TS]

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  to back pleas for sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  what did you guys see there was some [TS]

  sort of like drama about Siri that [TS]

  happened today I did not get a chance to [TS]

  look up what happened but apparently [TS]

  someone was like Oh series garbage and [TS]

  it's not my fault do you know what I'm [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  it's a story on the [TS]

  information which when I see that [TS]

  website I always think of Marco and I'm [TS]

  like thank someone the website it's much [TS]

  worse much worse than the magazine ever [TS]

  was because the information is like [TS]

  anyway you know the information is [TS]

  really spammy I really don't like like [TS]

  they signed me up to their man list when [TS]

  they launched as if I had signed up [TS]

  saying I was interested and as a result [TS]

  even though I have never responded to [TS]

  anything never sign up for anything [TS]

  they still incessantly spam me and I [TS]

  really like you know I know it's kind of [TS]

  low to call them up publicly for this [TS]

  but that is not okay for anybody to do [TS]

  it just drives me nuts you can [TS]

  unsubscribe I just unsubscribe today [TS]

  speaking of them I did it because I [TS]

  finally drove me that nuts but I'm just [TS]

  like like I never signed up for this and [TS]

  all you're doing is promoting articles [TS]

  that I can't see because I'm not gonna [TS]

  pay 40 bucks a month to a spammer and so [TS]

  like it just it drives me nuts I just [TS]

  people play fast and loose with mailing [TS]

  lists all the time and on the maleness [TS]

  companies like MailChimp everything [TS]

  they're all complicit in this because [TS]

  they don't require a double opt-in when [TS]

  you import am analyst from another [TS]

  service allegedly and so like they're [TS]

  all complicit because they all make [TS]

  spamming people in in Mass really easy [TS]

  and as a result I get on all sorts of [TS]

  spam lists that appear like I signed up [TS]

  for them and you know it's just it's [TS]

  it's a dirty scammy trick when you're [TS]

  launching something like this to use [TS]

  like a PR list you find somewhere or you [TS]

  buy somewhere and the information was [TS]

  one of the companies that does that's [TS]

  one of the many companies that does this [TS]

  and so I just have zero respect for them [TS]

  zero and I know it's a dumb reason but [TS]

  that's how nuts does drives me well [TS]

  anyway this explains why I know I was [TS]

  actually read the article because none [TS]

  of us have paid for the information but [TS]

  we know about it because there exists it [TS]

  was I think summarized on nine to five [TS]

  Mac which is also kind of a scummy [TS]

  practice of like taking a paywall the [TS]

  article and then basically rewriting it [TS]

  worse on your site so that people read [TS]

  your site instead of the paywall thing [TS]

  yeah I love this business it's such a [TS]

  great basis I should really go back to [TS]

  publishing web content that sounds like [TS]

  a lot of fun I mean I can understand [TS]

  like a paragraph and a link seems [TS]

  reasonable but once you've gone on for a [TS]

  page and a half with laborious the [TS]

  summarizing an article that you didn't [TS]

  write anyway [TS]

  the story as far as I could tell was a [TS]

  bunch of a bunch of reports from people [TS]

  inside Apple or X Apple people who know [TS]

  about the environment workings of Syria [TS]

  over the years is saying how and where [TS]

  things went wrong with specific quotes [TS]

  from specific people assigning blame [TS]

  to other people not to themselves [TS]

  explaining the situation and it's just [TS]

  the typical you know things aren't going [TS]

  great inside a big company you know [TS]

  product launches and it's not scalable [TS]

  and it's band-aided and everyone points [TS]

  fingers about who set the priorities or [TS]

  what they should be doing and how often [TS]

  it should be updated I mean it's it's [TS]

  mostly details that may be like [TS]

  interesting you know or like from a [TS]

  business case perspective if you're [TS]

  learning about how businesses run [TS]

  interesting but like practically [TS]

  speaking I care less and less about the [TS]

  internal political goings-on in Apple [TS]

  and and mostly just say like that's [TS]

  Apple's job to figure out like I'm not [TS]

  running Apple I'm not an executive there [TS]

  I'm not a high-level manager that's [TS]

  their job as a company to figure out how [TS]

  to corral the people to produce results [TS]

  and if it doesn't go well I'm not that [TS]

  interested in why didn't go well who was [TS]

  to blame which person was more difficult [TS]

  which person made the big wrong [TS]

  strategic decision at what point they [TS]

  just need to figure that out but on the [TS]

  outside of they say look how's the [TS]

  product doing and the product is we've [TS]

  discussed in the past not doing that [TS]

  great and they've had a long time so I [TS]

  hope they get it sorted out I don't even [TS]

  want to get angry about Siri again so [TS]

  let's just move on and instead let's get [TS]

  angry about keyboards Marco this is your [TS]

  cue Apple apparently has a patented a [TS]

  keyboard that cannot be defeated by [TS]

  crumbs Marco I know you have been [TS]

  celebrating you are swinging from the [TS]

  rafters you're so excited so I don't [TS]

  know when we're gonna expect to see this [TS]

  but hopefully it will mean that I don't [TS]

  need to invest in compressed air anymore [TS]

  I mean this is a problem I don't have [TS]

  because I have a laptop that has a [TS]

  functioning keyboard I walked right into [TS]

  that one but why do you think Marco [TS]

  would be excited by this this seems like [TS]

  Marcos nightmare to me because Marco [TS]

  loves the fact that the keyboard he [TS]

  hates also has a terrible reliability [TS]

  problem that allows him to righteously [TS]

  rail against it imagine if they made [TS]

  that keyboard hundra's i'm relying [TS]

  this keyboard works all the time but I [TS]

  hate it I mean to be [TS]

  fair when it first came out before we [TS]

  knew how badly it would break all the [TS]

  time that is what I did and also the [TS]

  arrow key placement is still horrendous [TS]

  and not having the not having the gap [TS]

  above the arrows as a both the left and [TS]

  right is unforgivable [TS]

  but anyway look I I'm of two minds of [TS]

  this you know number one John's right [TS]

  you know I I in a way I don't want to [TS]

  see this keyboard succeed and be fixed [TS]

  I'm not gonna lie that's that is part of [TS]

  my motivation because I don't like it so [TS]

  much but also like keep in mind I had [TS]

  those keyboards for what about a year [TS]

  before I finally gave up across 13 [TS]

  different laptops three and and so and [TS]

  it's so I had the keyboard and it's like [TS]

  I got used to it enough like I never [TS]

  liked it but I was able to function with [TS]

  it until it stopped working reliably and [TS]

  so the reality is I know you know I got [TS]

  a I got to choose my battles here I know [TS]

  that a lot of people out there don't [TS]

  care or even like this keyboard I know [TS]

  that I'm that Apple is always going to [TS]

  press to make these things thinner and I [TS]

  think Apple has shown it across multiple [TS]

  years and multiple products that they [TS]

  only care about making the keyboard [TS]

  thinner and they will make some efforts [TS]

  to make the thin keyboard tolerable but [TS]

  they are no longer interested in keeping [TS]

  it a good keyboard if that means they [TS]

  can't make it thinner and so I just have [TS]

  to kind of resign myself to accept that [TS]

  III don't I'm not gonna round this for a [TS]

  half hour like I usually do because I [TS]

  this battle I lost this battle and I'm [TS]

  going to continue to lose this battle [TS]

  into the future the last thing I think [TS]

  Apple's gonna do in the next MacBook [TS]

  revision is to make the keyboard thicker [TS]

  I it just not gonna happen [TS]

  and I I fundamentally don't believe that [TS]

  they can make a keyboard with this [TS]

  little travel good I give to one that [TS]

  they can do it good as far as you're [TS]

  concerned though because lots of people [TS]

  do really like the keyboard I mean Casey [TS]

  and I included it basically being [TS]

  converted to this new keyboard this is [TS]

  just the reliability issues and as you [TS]

  said the key layout right and so [TS]

  basically if they can fix the [TS]

  reliability problems yeah I would love [TS]

  if they made the keyboard a different [TS]

  style [TS]

  if they can fix the reliability problems [TS]

  that that's the best I can hope for the [TS]

  key layout is just sitting right there [TS]

  too because there can be divisive [TS]

  opinions about do you like how this [TS]

  keyboard feels or not like some people [TS]

  like it some people don't find but I [TS]

  feel like key layout changes there are [TS]

  certain key layout changes that would be [TS]

  universally praised from the perspective [TS]

  of using the keyboard and the only [TS]

  naysayers would be aesthetic for example [TS]

  inverted t full-size breaking the [TS]

  rectangle of the keyboard [TS]

  aesthetically people would hate that it [TS]

  would be like the notch on the keyboard [TS]

  it would be like an asymmetrical notch [TS]

  on the bottom of your keyboard and those [TS]

  people would yell about it but from the [TS]

  perspective of people who type how does [TS]

  it feel to type on I don't see anybody [TS]

  saying please bring back the half size [TS]

  our keys with or without the gaps above [TS]

  them I mean are there fans out there [TS]

  who'd say please bring them back again [TS]

  yes I can imagine it but not from a [TS]

  functional perspective did you just say [TS]

  that you would bring asked to bring back [TS]

  the half our keys the what would you [TS]

  mean the way I have them only 2015 where [TS]

  the left and right are half height now I [TS]

  mean Brett make a full height and have [TS]

  that have the rectangular shape the [TS]

  defines be broken so basically have the [TS]

  up key in line with the other ones now [TS]

  but have the down left and right like [TS]

  you know a look in their own row below [TS]

  us exactly I have all them be full sized [TS]

  and have gaps above them I mean that [TS]

  would be cool but there that's never [TS]

  gonna do that so yeah no I'm just saying [TS]

  like like the our key outlet he layout [TS]

  changes that I think would be [TS]

  universally praised for our functional [TS]

  perspective but derided only from a [TS]

  static perspective I'm not even saying [TS]

  that wrong because I understand thinking [TS]

  that's ugly but boy would that be nicer [TS]

  for people use air which is I think [TS]

  everybody like who doesn't use the arrow [TS]

  keys a lot like my son these days he's [TS]

  using the mouse to move his insertion [TS]

  point one space I'm just like yo case [TS]

  use them like stop he goes from the [TS]

  keyboard to the mass of the keyboard [TS]

  when he can't reach him he can't figure [TS]

  out where they are because they're all [TS]

  the same height as everything else [TS]

  oh he's using a full-size Apple extended [TS]

  keyboard sighs are you kidding we're not [TS]

  using not my Hanson yeah increase in [TS]

  real keyboards here and like I even [TS]

  showed him the modifier for moving a [TS]

  word at a time and beginning of end of [TS]

  line but just for a single character [TS]

  like see take the mouse and steer it to [TS]

  go to the left [TS]

  of you know the place where he needs to [TS]

  insert a quotation mark to match the [TS]

  other one and it's like just just hit [TS]

  the left arrow once I swear to you it [TS]

  will work and he's just not he's not on [TS]

  that page this is what happens from not [TS]

  using computers and only using like [TS]

  iPads and iPhones like your whole [TS]

  formative years you have no idea about [TS]

  moving the cursor with arrow keys well [TS]

  anyway yeah I don't I wouldn't expect [TS]

  Apple to do anything that's gonna make [TS]

  the keyboard less attractive to the [TS]

  current Apple design teams aesthetic I [TS]

  agree unfortunately they're just not [TS]

  gonna do it like you know it's this is [TS]

  not not like a rare thing with Apple [TS]

  these days like look at the Apple TV [TS]

  remote look at I mean look even look [TS]

  they're right they're regular like [TS]

  keyboards and mice and everything like [TS]

  if they were willing to make it a little [TS]

  bit ugly they could make it better [TS]

  economically or feel better or work [TS]

  better or whatever else but they're not [TS]

  and it's easy to see both sides of this [TS]

  argument like we all argue like these [TS]

  things should work better design is how [TS]

  it works they argue we are printing [TS]

  money and this is how we like to design [TS]

  things and this is what looks good and [TS]

  people buy our stuff in part because it [TS]

  looks good it is ascetically better I [TS]

  think we would all agree it does look [TS]

  better when the keyboard is just a [TS]

  rectangle like it just does like as a [TS]

  piece of art as a you know but yeah and [TS]

  look Apple these days is really good [TS]

  designing beautiful things that kind of [TS]

  suck to use like that's that's good it [TS]

  could even be argued that the uniformity [TS]

  is the reason the right and left our [TS]

  piece became full height because those [TS]

  little gaps were an asymmetry it I [TS]

  guarantee you that's the reason because [TS]

  there's no there's no other reason to it [TS]

  it doesn't make them easier to use the [TS]

  same reason that the bottom row of keys [TS]

  is now the same height as all the other [TS]

  rows again uniformity yeah Oh totally [TS]

  yeah it's you know because it's its [TS]

  design it's designed purely to [TS]

  aesthetics it's egotistical design it is [TS]

  indulgent design for the designers to [TS]

  indulge themselves and what they think [TS]

  looks the best without regard to how [TS]

  things work someone I think I'll also [TS]

  point out that even on the like the [TS]

  external keyboards for desktop computers [TS]

  the bottom row of keys is now the same [TS]

  high as all the Owens I didn't actually [TS]

  check this because I don't have one of [TS]

  those new keyboards to compare with but [TS]

  I wouldn't be surprised to that were the [TS]

  case if only for parts sharing reason [TS]

  suppose you all know Apple likes to use [TS]

  the same keyboard across all of his all [TS]

  of its laptops from 12 inches to 17 [TS]

  which I will you know forever remember [TS]

  as a ridiculous thing and now [TS]

  there's only slightly less ridiculous [TS]

  that's shared between the 15 and the 13 [TS]

  and the 12 I guess oh so I'm this before [TS]

  we leave this this bit of fall pair on [TS]

  this this pen the date of his patent is [TS]

  uh 2016 which makes me think like just [TS]

  as the original Mac books were coming [TS]

  out about 2016 or was that they came out [TS]

  in early 2015 a year before and a half [TS]

  before they brought this keyboard to all [TS]

  of their laptops during which it was [TS]

  very clear during that year and a half [TS]

  that it failed a lot yeah so so but they [TS]

  but in 2016 they introduced the MacBook [TS]

  Pros with the same keyboard at the same [TS]

  time they filed this patent so it shows [TS]

  that they had been thinking about at [TS]

  some point you know before 2016 they had [TS]

  been investigating these different ways [TS]

  to seal up the bottom of the thing no I [TS]

  I think I brought this up when we talked [TS]

  about the original slimline keyboard and [TS]

  maybe was when we talked about the touch [TS]

  bar but I think this is oh use this [TS]

  opportunity to once again promote the [TS]

  idea that I think Apple would benefit [TS]

  from on all of its laptops this idea of [TS]

  sealing up the key caps with little [TS]

  membrane so that stuff can't get in [TS]

  there just take the next level and make [TS]

  these damn things waterproof right if [TS]

  you can waterproof a phone if you made a [TS]

  waterproof keyboard included which will [TS]

  also obviously include as a side effect [TS]

  the inability to get crap underneath the [TS]

  keys I would imagine I mean doesn't have [TS]

  to necessarily but I would imagine that [TS]

  would be that could be part of it people [TS]

  will love you for it [TS]

  how many people KC spill things on their [TS]

  laptops if you like is it beyond us [TS]

  technologically speaking to make a sort [TS]

  of sealed keyboard that feels good I [TS]

  mean maybe these patterns are just [TS]

  patents because Apple figured out if you [TS]

  do this it makes the keyboard feel even [TS]

  worse I don't know we'll see if they [TS]

  ever produce something like this but [TS]

  well no I mean we we kind of know that [TS]

  from the smart Keyboard the the iPad pro [TS]

  smart keyboard has I think but the same [TS]

  butterfly switches or at least similar [TS]

  feeling switches but it has like a [TS]

  membrane across the whole thing and so [TS]

  it is I think roughly a water resistant [TS]

  at least but it doesn't get it doesn't [TS]

  get stuff under the keys it doesn't do [TS]

  that so we kind of know like this is [TS]

  possible to do with just a membrane and [TS]

  I know that one of the Microsoft Surface [TS]

  notebook lines does it too and they have [TS]

  issues with it like you know getting [TS]

  dirty and looking really grimy and gross [TS]

  really fast but like that's not to say [TS]

  that it has to go that way like maybe [TS]

  different materials choices could [TS]

  different different results they're like [TS]

  that's not actually that bad of a thing [TS]

  to try I don't know if it would feel [TS]

  better or worse than we have now but [TS]

  like the smart Keyboard like I use the [TS]

  smart Keyboard all the time on the iPad [TS]

  I wouldn't call it great but it's [TS]

  tolerable and that's about what I can [TS]

  say for the notebook one as well so it's [TS]

  just tolerable in slightly different [TS]

  ways but you know what the smart [TS]

  keyboard keys never failed on me not [TS]

  once because stuff can't get in there so [TS]

  it's not a ridiculous idea do you have [TS]

  the problems of the smart Keyboard with [TS]

  like I think it was iOS 11 or something [TS]

  people complaining the smart Keyboard [TS]

  doesn't work reliable anymore due to [TS]

  like some change and in a debouncing [TS]

  firmware some crap oh yeah no I mean [TS]

  it's it's not I haven't had I don't know [TS]

  if it's related to deep bouncing or not [TS]

  no I definitely is less reliable that [TS]

  seems like a like an iOS software thing [TS]

  like just like the way the apps behave [TS]

  with the keyboard attached to detached [TS]

  it has been more buggy rotations been [TS]

  more buggy yeah it's it's been kind of a [TS]

  mess but I attribute that to iOS 11 but [TS]

  I don't know anyway I think one [TS]

  challenge you might have with the idea [TS]

  of waterproofing a laptop is ventilation [TS]

  and cooling yeah no it mean is obviously [TS]

  the MacBook is your easiest one right [TS]

  because the reason I bring up this whole [TS]

  idea of waterproofing now is that Apple [TS]

  has slowly been sealing up its laptops [TS]

  not for the purpose of water performing [TS]

  but just for the purpose of Apple being [TS]

  Apple like getting rid of moving parts [TS]

  and seams and making them unibody and [TS]

  then the battery is not removable then [TS]

  another would look at this as D [TS]

  contenting I mean it's a simplification [TS]

  it's moving towards this Platonic ideal [TS]

  of like this is a featureless you know [TS]

  smooth they are certainly featureless [TS]

  all right and so the MacBook no vents [TS]

  right you still have to deal with the [TS]

  ports which I think might be challenging [TS]

  because Apple doesn't get to define all [TS]

  those ports you have to come up with the [TS]

  sealed but still repairable e internal [TS]

  or replaceable USB C port or whatever [TS]

  but there's not a lot of holes in a [TS]

  12-inch MacBook right so I feel like [TS]

  that is that is a good candidate if you [TS]

  can steal an iPad or an iPhone you know [TS]

  it has similar number of holes to to a [TS]

  MacBook adorable the 12-inch [TS]

  Apple laptop for the ones with with [TS]

  vents and fans I granted us a lot harder [TS]

  but even on those if you say look it's [TS]

  not waterproof but the top surface the [TS]

  keyboard surface if you do a spill on it [TS]

  you'll be okay [TS]

  the water will shed away and not be [TS]

  sucked into the vents and the top is [TS]

  sealed so that it's waterproof so we can [TS]

  take a spill you can't dunk the thing in [TS]

  water but it's better than it was before [TS]

  because if you spell on the keyboard you [TS]

  doom didn't Apple would never repair [TS]

  everything again and if this membrane [TS]

  keyboard like if they do this for chrome [TS]

  reasons I said while you're in there see [TS]

  what you can do about water let's call [TS]

  it water resistance or something you [TS]

  know I I just think it's it's kind of [TS]

  silly as time goes on that our phones [TS]

  can be dropped into a glass of water and [TS]

  come back out okay but are much more [TS]

  expensive laptops like a pin drop of [TS]

  water fan falls on the keyboard and [TS]

  filters down to the inside and starts [TS]

  corroding things and it's all over one [TS]

  speck of dust $700 one speck of wet dust [TS]

  $1,200 yeah no more that's like total [TS]

  replacements like sorry well it's like [TS]

  they probably the phone's water got in [TS]

  this and that we don't cover water [TS]

  damage I don't know that's true of [TS]

  laptops but I know the phones have those [TS]

  little water damage sensor thingies on [TS]

  them that they yell at you about if it [TS]

  turns out your thing has water damage no [TS]

  it is also true of laptops right use [TS]

  desktop kids they don't get wet they [TS]

  don't get wet in those cases around I [TS]

  bet everybody good friends challenge [TS]

  accepted I would say hold my beer but [TS]

  I'm gonna need it we are sponsored this [TS]

  week by after socks bone conduction [TS]

  headphones go to ATP aftershocks calm [TS]

  and use code ATP 30 to get $30 off the [TS]

  wonderful new treks air their new [TS]

  flagship headphones bone conduction [TS]

  headphones rest next to your ear not on [TS]

  it not around it not in it and they send [TS]

  small vibrations through your cheek [TS]

  bones that reach your inner ear so it [TS]

  feels like you're wearing nothing at all [TS]

  really and especially the new Trek's air [TS]

  are so light they have a full titanium [TS]

  wraparound band weighs just 1.06 ounces [TS]

  it's incredibly light it's incredibly [TS]

  comfortable and it feels like you were [TS]

  nothing at all but you hear the sound [TS]

  from the headphones and you also hear [TS]

  the sound around you which just can be [TS]

  very useful for practicality and safety [TS]

  reasons in various conditions and the [TS]

  best thing is there's nothing in your [TS]

  ear so if your ears hurt like mine do [TS]

  when you when you put in like regular [TS]

  earbuds you won't have this problem with [TS]

  the Trek's air because they're not [TS]

  resting in your ear or they're not [TS]

  squishing against your ear there [TS]

  resting next year with a very small [TS]

  contact patch so it's also ip55 [TS]

  certified to repel sweat dust and [TS]

  moisture so it's very good for bad [TS]

  weather or workouts or anything like [TS]

  that battery life is great on these they [TS]

  have over six hours of battery life for [TS]

  continuous music and phone calls a [TS]

  twenty days standby time and they can [TS]

  charge fully in just two hours [TS]

  the tracks are also features EQ options [TS]

  so if you want a boost bass or reduce [TS]

  vibration you can do that there's of [TS]

  course microphones dual noise cancelling [TS]

  microphones to make incredibly clear [TS]

  phone calls with the new tracks air they [TS]

  are wonderful if you have any problems [TS]

  they are they have a two-year warranty I [TS]

  use the tracks air myself and I love [TS]

  them I absolutely love them they're [TS]

  wonderful for hearing the world around [TS]

  you which is something that most [TS]

  headphones really don't offer very well [TS]

  if at all with these they're great for [TS]

  if you're like walking outside and you [TS]

  want to hear so you don't get like hit [TS]

  by a car or something terrible like that [TS]

  or even more practical stuff like if [TS]

  you're in your house and you want to [TS]

  hear somebody knocks on the door or if [TS]

  your phone is ringing somewhere else [TS]

  it's very very useful check it out today [TS]

  ATP aftershocks calm and you can get $30 [TS]

  off the treks air model which is the [TS]

  model I highly recommend ATP's of [TS]

  aftershocks comm code ATP 30 for $30 off [TS]

  the treks air thank you so much two [TS]

  aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

  for sponsoring our show what do you guys [TS]

  think I know this has been very well [TS]

  covered especially on the talk show a [TS]

  few days ago but what do you guys think [TS]

  of the rumors of a potential MacBook Air [TS]

  update this this to me I think is [TS]

  potentially very interesting yeah I [TS]

  heard that was the talk show with the [TS]

  Jason us now Snell was on yeah Jason [TS]

  Snell and John Gruber were talking about [TS]

  that I kind of agree with Jason about [TS]

  his consternation of this like somehow [TS]

  we can't kill this laptop and I'm mostly [TS]

  I'm also coming at it from a sort of [TS]

  Apple should be embarrassed angle not so [TS]

  much of the MacBook Air is a bad machine [TS]

  but there's one part of the machine I [TS]

  think is inexcusable that's the screen [TS]

  now because it's not in retina like they [TS]

  made all the points in the show some [TS]

  people don't care about retina some [TS]

  people can't even see the difference but [TS]

  because it has such incredibly bad [TS]

  viewing angles brightness and color [TS]

  reproduction right it just it's just at [TS]

  this point when it was introduced fine [TS]

  at this point it is just a bad [TS]

  looks worse than basically any new PC [TS]

  laptop screen you could buy at any price [TS]

  we hold an honest question have you seen [TS]

  a 12-inch MacBook screen yeah sure [TS]

  because they like if you look at the 12 [TS]

  inch compared to the other higher end [TS]

  ones the 12 inch screen is also [TS]

  noticeably worse at things like viewing [TS]

  angle color everything it's it's not a [TS]

  good screen but it's better than it's [TS]

  better than the air that's true I'll [TS]

  give you the head but but but it's not [TS]

  it's still like a crap screen it is not [TS]

  Oh a slowdown it is not a cracked screen [TS]

  wouldn't compare it to a MacBook Pro [TS]

  screen of an even the old ones I do that [TS]

  every day I know yeah the MacBook [TS]

  adorable one any day its retina so it's [TS]

  like way better than that but but I just [TS]

  I'm just saying for color reproduction [TS]

  of viewing it were a thing that Apple [TS]

  you surprised itself andhe they never [TS]

  really had crap monitors that they [TS]

  always had pretty much the best monitors [TS]

  and then they wouldn't let a really old [TS]

  monitor stay around for a long time that [TS]

  they would that they would refresh and [TS]

  they have been refreshing the MacBook [TS]

  Air like ripping out the you know [TS]

  changing the internals and everything [TS]

  like that but leaving that screen like [TS]

  it just it just boggles my mind because [TS]

  I feel like at this point I would never [TS]

  want to buy a thousand dollar laptop [TS]

  with that screen on it it seems [TS]

  inexcusable so if they had been updating [TS]

  the MacBook Air to keep it limping along [TS]

  on life support and had also updated the [TS]

  screen I would be like well this is not [TS]

  ideal but they're you know they found [TS]

  themselves in a weird place with their [TS]

  product line so let's see what they do [TS]

  with it like I think Jason and Gruber [TS]

  had a good analysis of that as they they [TS]

  somehow it's conceivable they somehow [TS]

  found themselves in the scenario where [TS]

  any move to replace it would result in [TS]

  reduced margins on one or both lines as [TS]

  the as the pyre shifted and then Tim [TS]

  Cook philosophy is like it if it ain't [TS]

  broke people are still giving us money [TS]

  for it don't fix it which is a terrible [TS]

  from a like coherent product line [TS]

  directive and if there is another live [TS]

  talk show with Apple executives on it I [TS]

  really hope John asks them there I hope [TS]

  you doesn't ask them because if you ask [TS]

  them it seems like your laptop line has [TS]

  no coherent story you can make like well [TS]

  the errors would be able to like blah [TS]

  blah blah and then you have the MacBook [TS]

  of people all you're doing is like wrist [TS]

  listing the pros and cons of your models [TS]

  but there there is no coherent story to [TS]

  the naming features or pricing of the [TS]

  current Apple laptop [TS]

  it is a mess and so I would state that [TS]

  and say you know that there's no [TS]

  coherent story to the naming features of [TS]

  pricing of your hub line why is that and [TS]

  if they want to contest that I would [TS]

  push back pretty hard to set con one of [TS]

  them is called air but it's not the [TS]

  lightest but it's super old it's got a [TS]

  mag safe on it but the element don't [TS]

  have MagSafe one's called macbook pro [TS]

  but it's got the internals of the air [TS]

  and it's your brain explodes so I think [TS]

  their line is in disarray and I think [TS]

  they can make I think the MacBook Air [TS]

  was a great model of laptop but that we [TS]

  have the technology now to make a line [TS]

  of computers that spans the exact same [TS]

  price range that offers a better [TS]

  computer at the thousand dollar price [TS]

  point than they current offer now and [TS]

  also there's a better computer at all [TS]

  the other ones and you know depending [TS]

  how you want to do it hey put on MagSafe [TS]

  and USB see you let people charge from [TS]

  both let's see which one people like [TS]

  better right because then you get the [TS]

  advantages of cases and his his switch [TS]

  charger and the advantage of you trip [TS]

  over my card you won't break it and you [TS]

  can maybe you can choose when you order [TS]

  it whether you want the MagSafe or not [TS]

  because maybe you just want to be able [TS]

  to use all your same chart anyway or put [TS]

  a SD card slot on the side of it of [TS]

  these computers or maybe you have an [TS]

  HDMI port on one model like I know I'm [TS]

  gonna live a crazy here but I long for [TS]

  the days when you could look at the line [TS]

  of Apple laptops and say I see how it [TS]

  goes [TS]

  big small low price high price lot not a [TS]

  lot of features a bunch of features and [TS]

  have them all look like a family and [TS]

  that's not the case not the case at all [TS]

  so one one [TS]

  I think curiosity that I that I had but [TS]

  thread the other nice discussion of it [TS]

  again I think listen to the talk show [TS]

  this week it's a really good discussion [TS]

  about this from a lot of different [TS]

  angles but one one thought I had was [TS]

  like if they make a retina MacBook Air [TS]

  if they literally change nothing else [TS]

  about it except a Retina screen and [TS]

  maybe replacing the two Thunderbolt 2 [TS]

  ports it has I have one or two replacing [TS]

  its Thunderbolt 2 ports with USBC ports [TS]

  and then of course you know a modern [TS]

  chipset of the same type that we that's [TS]

  currently the MacBook Escape would [TS]

  anybody still buy the MacBook escape no [TS]

  like that that that's the problem we [TS]

  talked about if you improve the [TS]

  MacBook Air why would anyone buy a [TS]

  MacBook or MacBook why would I not know [TS]

  - sorry a MacBook Pro rather not a [TS]

  MacBook the MacBook escaped a 13-inch [TS]

  MacBook without touch bar is by many [TS]

  measures a MacBook Air it has the [TS]

  MacBook Air Class processors the MacBook [TS]

  Air Class chipset and everything else [TS]

  it's it's the same approximate size and [TS]

  weight it's a little bit you know it's [TS]

  slightly different but it roughly the [TS]

  same size and weight as the 13-inch [TS]

  MacBook Air but if you put it if you put [TS]

  a Retina screen in the old ancient [TS]

  MacBook Air body that was designed in [TS]

  2010 I bet it would sell better than the [TS]

  13-inch MacBook Escape it would be a [TS]

  better laptop it has an SD card slot it [TS]

  has you know MagSafe the option for mac [TS]

  safe it has legacy USB ports which apple [TS]

  acknowledges is a thing that some people [TS]

  want otherwise they wouldn't have put [TS]

  them on the I of Mac Pro right yeah if [TS]

  you could show the regular person which [TS]

  one of these laptops do you think is [TS]

  better which one do you want and didn't [TS]

  tell them about the price and they [TS]

  weren't sensitive to styling cues that [TS]

  clearly indicate for the MacBook Air is [TS]

  super old right they would say oh that [TS]

  one's got more stuff it's got more [TS]

  features it's got more things and this [TS]

  magnet power cable is really smart right [TS]

  why should you ever pick the other one [TS]

  if we tell you guess what that one's [TS]

  three hundred dollars more you like well [TS]

  who would pay three hundred dollars more [TS]

  to have no ports on the side for a [TS]

  computer that is basically the same size [TS]

  and weight and it perceptibly seems [TS]

  thicker because it doesn't taper right [TS]

  like the MacBook Air is thicker on one [TS]

  end but thinner on the other but it [TS]

  seems smaller because it gets skinny [TS]

  just for the perception type thing like [TS]

  that that's the and and it's fine if [TS]

  they do that like if they want to remake [TS]

  their line and in that way you'd have to [TS]

  sort this type of thing out but instead [TS]

  they they leave it in the current [TS]

  scenario where the old one is clearly [TS]

  old that has serious downsides versus [TS]

  the regular one in terms of that [TS]

  terrible screen they have on it right [TS]

  the new one is expensive for no [TS]

  perceptible reason and you trade off a [TS]

  bunch of stuff and then they gets even [TS]

  more super expensive and you still don't [TS]

  get your ports back and you still have [TS]

  no magic say from the keyboard is weird [TS]

  and breaks all the time so they need to [TS]

  they need to do something I really want [TS]

  to just clean house on the laptop line [TS]

  and say all new line one nice family [TS]

  unified in appearance features and has a [TS]

  coherent ramp from from expensive than [TS]

  expensive and by the way at all [TS]

  point centered all sizes every one of [TS]

  them is better in some way whether it [TS]

  has more features or better reliability [TS]

  or you know faster or whatever yeah I I [TS]

  suspect we're gonna see some kind of [TS]

  major movement in the laptop line this [TS]

  year I really hope we do the current [TS]

  line has so many of these like weird [TS]

  issues not to mention you know some of [TS]

  the problems it has but like just like [TS]

  these like weird things about like that [TS]

  make it you know more or less compelling [TS]

  or seemingly weirdly priced in certain [TS]

  ways or really segmented in other ways [TS]

  like it needs help and I have a feeling [TS]

  Apple knew that two years ago at like [TS]

  shortly after it launched and I have a [TS]

  feeling they've work to fix it and so [TS]

  the only question is how they're fixing [TS]

  it and I don't expect this to be you [TS]

  know giving me all my hopes and dreams [TS]

  or anything but but I do expect change [TS]

  and hopefully improvement and so we'll [TS]

  see what that means speaking of hopes [TS]

  and dreams this is a tough question in [TS]

  the style these recent ones that to [TS]

  listeners have been sending us for the [TS]

  high end laptops which is where we're [TS]

  all shopping well you two are shopping [TS]

  cos I don't buy laptops I'm getting [TS]

  towards that point if you had to pick [TS]

  one port to add to the current crop of [TS]

  MacBook Pro ports I suspect the 15-inch [TS]

  MacBook Pro visit as the most would you [TS]

  can only pick one for your own personal [TS]

  purposes not for like what would make a [TS]

  better laptop for Apple to sell what [TS]

  would you pick on a 15-inch no question [TS]

  an SD card reader jay-z I'm torn between [TS]

  ancient USB and SD card reader [TS]

  I would probably h TM I would also be [TS]

  convenient I know I'm thinking I see and [TS]

  like to me like if you if it's less if [TS]

  it's not the 15-inch like if you ask me [TS]

  what what port I would add to the [TS]

  MacBook Escape it would be a third of [TS]

  anything like a third USB C port just [TS]

  one more of anything because that's what [TS]

  it most desperately needs like the 12 X [TS]

  2 right yeah the same thing I would kill [TS]

  for a second USB C port in my but that's [TS]

  my big the 15 just just to see like you [TS]

  know you feel like there's enough USB [TS]

  seasoned on the 15 but you can add one [TS]

  more thing you know what would it be [TS]

  I I am very torn between SD between old [TS]

  USB and between HDMI but I think if I [TS]

  had to pick [TS]

  I think I would probably I would [TS]

  probably come down on SD card reader [TS]

  because I don't find a need for plugging [TS]

  in the Aged HDMI that often and I have a [TS]

  dongle for it I don't have a need for [TS]

  plugging in Legacy USB stuff that often [TS]

  and I have a dongle for it but I do have [TS]

  an SD card reader that I would like [TS]

  quite a lot but it would be more [TS]

  convenient to just be able to slot that [TS]

  thing right in the computer [TS]

  yeah it to me is like you can solve a [TS]

  lot like a lot of the annoyances of the [TS]

  new of the new laptop ports are solved [TS]

  by just having a lot of them like you [TS]

  know like when you have four of them [TS]

  well technically really you have three [TS]

  of them because one of them have a power [TS]

  plug in it but we know when you have [TS]

  three you pass through like your diiii I [TS]

  hear your point a hundred percent and [TS]

  you're in dongle town and it like okay [TS]

  regardless yeah I know well that's part [TS]

  of the problem were all landowners in [TS]

  dongle town my friend but I feel like [TS]

  you like the other ports you know you [TS]

  can you can fix a lot of the [TS]

  inconvenience of USB ceiling laptops [TS]

  with getting new cables for old devices [TS]

  like you can you can you can go on you [TS]

  know mana price grammars or whatever and [TS]

  get inexpensive cables that have USB C [TS]

  on one end and whatever your peripheral [TS]

  needs on the other end and you can just [TS]

  replace their cables and and you know [TS]

  there's some issues with hubs and [TS]

  multiplying those that I talked about [TS]

  before which is still annoying but but I [TS]

  feel like you can reduce a lot of the [TS]

  annoyance with just like new cables but [TS]

  if you if you need SD cards as part of [TS]

  your workflow there's no way to reduce [TS]

  that annoyance you're always gonna have [TS]

  like an SD card hanging out of the side [TS]

  of it through a cable or something like [TS]

  that's that sucks and when it's built in [TS]

  it sucks less so like other problems can [TS]

  be solved with either time or cabling [TS]

  choices or peripheral choices but not [TS]

  having an SD card reader if you use SD [TS]

  cards is always a pain so the reason I [TS]

  asked this question is because I've been [TS]

  thinking about it a lot lately and I can [TS]

  tell you if you if you surveyed all the [TS]

  people in my office at work they would [TS]

  all say HDMI because every time [TS]

  increasingly when we we land in a [TS]

  conference room and someone needs to [TS]

  project never mind the fact that they [TS]

  should really with the number of Macs [TS]

  and it's all of us they should really [TS]

  have Apple TVs connected to every single [TS]

  thing so we could airplay to them it [TS]

  would solve this problem in a much nicer [TS]

  way Steve Jobs would approve you don't [TS]

  need an HDMI port you just need to be [TS]

  able to airplay to everything I agree [TS]

  Steve but you can't fight the IT [TS]

  department anyway they would all save [TS]

  steam [TS]

  because it's so frustrating we all sit [TS]

  down there and it's like we look around [TS]

  for the one person with with the 2015 [TS]

  laptop who can actually plug in because [TS]

  everyone forgot their dog and it used to [TS]

  be there was just one person with the [TS]

  new laptop and we would laugh at them [TS]

  and now there's like one person left [TS]

  with the old laptop and once the old [TS]

  laptop disappears just gonna be a bunch [TS]

  of people sitting around unable to [TS]

  project I don't understand why they [TS]

  don't put the adapters for this but [TS]

  anyway that's what people work would say [TS]

  but that's not what I would say because [TS]

  in my regular life if I was buying ops [TS]

  for myself I don't need to connect the [TS]

  HDMI so I never pick HDMI but work [TS]

  totally would I would have said in the [TS]

  past SD right because I do have cameras [TS]

  that have SD cards when I go on vacation [TS]

  I like to offload pictures from my [TS]

  camera to my thing without a dongle it's [TS]

  gonna be and build it in its small its [TS]

  skinny it'll fit fine but the more I've [TS]

  been thinking about it the more I've [TS]

  been getting attached to the idea of [TS]

  taking a 15-inch MacBook Pro and adding [TS]

  MagSafe and still having the ability to [TS]

  charge by any of the USB see things like [TS]

  not removing that ability but adding mag [TS]

  save as an addition because I feel like [TS]

  you get the twofer you get MagSafe which [TS]

  is better to trip over and stuff you get [TS]

  as I think it was a the Jason snow and [TS]

  maybe it was a Gruber saying you get the [TS]

  indicator light which i think is a [TS]

  useful feature when you have your [TS]

  clothes laptop and you plug in to make [TS]

  sure you see the little light that shows [TS]

  grip up amber or green show whether it's [TS]

  floyd charge Jerry's charging right yeah [TS]

  it's a great feature it's not like an [TS]

  Apple had that what fifteen years ago [TS]

  like it's not a new thing and left up [TS]

  this right and you also get one of your [TS]

  ports back now you really do have four [TS]

  ports instead of three if you want to be [TS]

  convenience if I just have USB C charger [TS]

  with me on vacation it could charge [TS]

  everything you've got it but also you [TS]

  could have the Mac safe and then the [TS]

  only question is what are you ship in [TS]

  the box you should MagSafe to ship USB [TS]

  or you should both and probably Apple [TS]

  would make you pick or something and I [TS]

  know are we backsliding and I know max [TS]

  they've had problems too and that's why [TS]

  I feel like ship them both let let [TS]

  people decide what they want to use how [TS]

  Apple can collect stats about what they [TS]

  use and anonymously send them back with [TS]

  its differential privacy for how often [TS]

  the laptops are charging via Mac save [TS]

  versus how often they're charging by a [TS]

  USB see I probably would get more [TS]

  benefit out of SD but I I'm finding the [TS]

  Toofer of getting a getting a port back [TS]

  and having the option of MagSafe [TS]

  irresistible and so now I'm envisioning [TS]

  before I was envisioning Apple [TS]

  it's laptops by adding an SD card slot [TS]

  and now envision them adding back Mac [TS]

  safe which i think is astronomical [TS]

  that's likely the netting SD card slot [TS]

  because it just it would be like egg on [TS]

  face of like Oh Romero MagSafe we're [TS]

  bringing it back that would be a tough [TS]

  sell whereas SD not there's so much room [TS]

  alongside the the edges of those 15-inch [TS]

  laptops right it's just a giant expanse [TS]

  with these two little tiny USBC holes an [TS]

  SD card slot even Johnny I could [TS]

  tolerate the Aesthetica marring of a [TS]

  very skinny discreet SD card slot in [TS]

  there how it looks fine on Marco's 2015 [TS]

  MacBook Pro I think it would be fine on [TS]

  a by 2018 model one thing also they [TS]

  could do that that I think it probably [TS]

  goes against their sensibilities but but [TS]

  I think it probably shouldn't because I [TS]

  think it's one of the biggest [TS]

  engineering flops of the numa of new [TS]

  lineup is that the the number of USB [TS]

  like its it to me like one of the [TS]

  biggest problems with these as I've said [TS]

  numerous times is just there aren't [TS]

  enough ports like if you're going to [TS]

  sell us on an all USB see world ok we [TS]

  can adapt to that over time with dongles [TS]

  and stuff and new cables and everything [TS]

  there still aren't enough ports [TS]

  especially with one of them being lost [TS]

  to power as you said like you basically [TS]

  lose one during most practical usage for [TS]

  most people most of the time so you know [TS]

  like the MacBook Escape basically has [TS]

  one port Kasey's MacBook one has no [TS]

  ports pretty much so like and you know [TS]

  the and the 15-inch has three and if you [TS]

  look at and any no.13 pearls and if you [TS]

  look at like you know what the previous [TS]

  ones had like you could connect more [TS]

  than that amount of things to them [TS]

  without adapters and I feel like one of [TS]

  the if you look at the engineering [TS]

  behind this one of the challenges for [TS]

  example one of the reasons why the [TS]

  MacBook Escape only has two ports is [TS]

  because of limitations of how many [TS]

  Thunderbolt channels you can deliver [TS]

  because Apple decided to make all of [TS]

  these USB C ports also Thunderbolt three [TS]

  ports except for the morning KC's [TS]

  macbook one and that's a choice that [TS]

  they made they didn't have to it is [TS]

  possible to have a USB C port that does [TS]

  not support Thunderbolt 3 like the one [TS]

  in KC's might pick one hmm and so Apple [TS]

  no trust me this is in many ways a good [TS]

  thing it used me more of them and so hey [TS]

  I feel like you know one of the biggest [TS]

  ways to solve the the anoints these [TS]

  laptops is to use if you're gonna insist [TS]

  on USBC okay but we need more of them to [TS]

  total including your power hole is not [TS]

  enough if you can't make them on certain [TS]

  models if you can't make them full-blown [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 ports which you already [TS]

  can't they're already not Thunderbolt 3 [TS]

  the MacBook one and the ones on the [TS]

  right side of the 13-inch MacBook Pro [TS]

  are half bandwidth or whatever it is so [TS]

  there's already exceptions the cable [TS]

  that comes with it that charges from the [TS]

  brick to the computer is a USBC cable [TS]

  that is not a Thunderbolt cable in fact [TS]

  it's a USB 2.0 USBC cable which [TS]

  shouldn't even exist but they do and [TS]

  that's what it is [TS]

  you know there's already all these [TS]

  exceptions to what the ports can and [TS]

  can't do in addition Thunderbolt usage [TS]

  in practice is pretty low and it is not [TS]

  the common case what most people are [TS]

  plugging into these things it needs [TS]

  either just power or power and USB it's [TS]

  you know most of the peripherals being [TS]

  plugged into these ports do not need [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 and so by Apple taking [TS]

  taking these ports on the on mostly [TS]

  stops except for Katie's and saying we [TS]

  can only have as many as a Thunderball [TS]

  controllers allow us to with this [TS]

  chipset or whatever that's very limiting [TS]

  to the number of ports you can have if [TS]

  they had if they had like you know two [TS]

  to four of them that could do [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 and 2 more that couldn't [TS]

  maybe on the other side or whatever that [TS]

  you know that's not ideal but I think [TS]

  that's better than not having enough [TS]

  ports to do basic things that you need [TS]

  so I know be more complicated I know [TS]

  they wouldn't be able to put a little [TS]

  thunder bolt lightning bolt symbol next [TS]

  to all of them but I think that is the [TS]

  best compromise that we have if we're [TS]

  gonna do in all USBC world we need more [TS]

  of these ports and it is a waste to [TS]

  suggest that they all need to have [TS]

  thunder both three I mean look one of [TS]

  them most of the time is used for power [TS]

  and nothing else no data at all you're [TS]

  wasting Thunderbolt 3 bandwidth on a [TS]

  port that transfers nothing except power [TS]

  so like obviously like you know there's [TS]

  there's a there's a major engineering [TS]

  inefficiency in tying Thunderbolt 3 to [TS]

  USBC for all these laptops if you can [TS]

  separate them you could give us way more [TS]

  ports and when I weigh more you can give [TS]

  us a to more ports at least some close [TS]

  to these without having any bandwidth [TS]

  challenges you could give away more like [TS]

  they have they have USB inside these [TS]

  cases you could give you could give 6 [TS]

  USB seaports along with 4 Thunderbolt [TS]

  ports like I felt like they have the [TS]

  controller capacity or space inside the [TS]

  case to put it controller they can [TS]

  support that like USB connections are [TS]

  cheap in the grand scheme of things yeah [TS]

  I mean it becomes I think more [TS]

  complicated like with like the wiring [TS]

  and stuff if if the other ones could [TS]

  also do some of the other alternate [TS]

  modes like if they can take power input [TS]

  or if they can do certain video output [TS]

  types but because I know Thunderbolts [TS]

  required for some of the alternate modes [TS]

  but not all of them or it is one of [TS]

  those Ramon's I don't know something [TS]

  like that but like tying this to [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 made these ports very [TS]

  limited and in number and probably [TS]

  fairly expensive to implement but that [TS]

  was an unforced error they didn't need [TS]

  to do that I understand why they did but [TS]

  I think that was the wrong move and I [TS]

  hope they fix it ok a couple of things [TS]

  first of all you just said unforced [TS]

  error and to my ears it was the correct [TS]

  usage of the term and I'm really [TS]

  uncomfortable with my reality right now [TS]

  wait so I it's not a sports term because [TS]

  I learned it from John it is a sports [TS]

  term okay to me it's a Syracuse a term [TS]

  Wow well that and then now my reality is [TS]

  back to being reality so I appreciate [TS]

  that let's let's go on a adventure [TS]

  together a little mental exercise [TS]

  together it is 2016 or whatever year it [TS]

  was that the USBC MacBook Pros came out [TS]

  it doesn't matter what it was but [TS]

  whatever whenever they debuted it's that [TS]

  that year that moment and within a few [TS]

  weeks of each other the new MacBook Pros [TS]

  come out and let's pick on the 15 [TS]

  specifically there's a new MacBook Pro [TS]

  it's 15 inches it has four USB C and [TS]

  thunderbolt ports simultaneously lenovo [TS]

  or dell or somebody else comes out with [TS]

  effectively the same thing as they are [TS]

  off to do and it has the same for [TS]

  physical USB C ports but only two of [TS]

  them are Thunderbolt do you know what [TS]

  the three of us would be doing at that [TS]

  moment we would be saying oh haha these [TS]

  idiot PC vendors now that you have to [TS]

  worry about whether or not you're [TS]

  plugging in to the right [TS]

  what a ridiculous mess that is we did we [TS]

  didn't say that on the MacBook we're [TS]

  with marketers point out it's a [TS]

  situation now where you have to know one [TS]

  side is special Neal that's been I think [TS]

  side is special Neal that's been I think [TS]

  background knowledge do I need to do my [TS]

  job [TS]

  well and what is the cost of me [TS]

  acquiring an apple in terms of time and [TS]

  money I think you said something smart a [TS]

  minute ago with regard to it becomes [TS]

  important when things fall apart you [TS]

  know in general in my experience like [TS]

  I'm a relatively novice iOS developer I [TS]

  mean I've been doing it casually for a [TS]

  fairly long time but I've only been [TS]

  doing it professionally for two years [TS]

  now and it's when things fall apart that [TS]

  I start really getting stressed and I [TS]

  have to start kind of reaching way [TS]

  outside my comfort zone trying to figure [TS]

  out what is broken and why and so I [TS]

  think in some ways if I was a more [TS]

  experienced developer I would get [TS]

  through these problems a lot more [TS]

  experienced iOS developer I would get [TS]

  through some of these problems more [TS]

  quickly but it's my experience in [TS]

  general as a developer and in general [TS]

  it's my experience of understanding most [TS]

  of the stack and in and that's what [TS]

  keeps me you know kind of level-headed [TS]

  and that's what gives me the the [TS]

  patience and tenacity to figure out a [TS]

  lot of these problems and I wish I had a [TS]

  specific example offhand and I and I [TS]

  don't which is good I guess because that [TS]

  means things haven't finally died [TS]

  recently but but you know I I do think [TS]

  it's valuable that that I have not only [TS]

  a CS background but a computer [TS]

  engineering background which to me is a [TS]

  combination of CS and electrical [TS]

  engineering and I'm sure a lot of people [TS]

  will take offense at that I don't care [TS]

  that's the way I look at it and when [TS]

  that means you know where where CS from [TS]

  my experience and I'm not trying to say [TS]

  this is fact this is just way I look at [TS]

  it CS tends to stop with code usually or [TS]

  maybe memory whereas computer [TS]

  engineering goes all the way down to [TS]

  logic gates and that isn't helpful in a [TS]

  day to day time but it is helpful just [TS]

  like John said a minute ago it's it's [TS]

  helpful to understand what at least [TS]

  vaguely what are all these abstractions [TS]

  and how do they relate to each other [TS]

  it demystifies it like it like you know [TS]

  I don't know the details of how [TS]

  anything's works but I know how a CPU [TS]

  works and I have built CPU from the [TS]

  logic you level up and I have built a [TS]

  logic gate with solid state electrical [TS]

  components and you know like that that [TS]

  whole thing it doesn't mean suddenly you [TS]

  know how your computer works but there's [TS]

  no more magic [TS]

  like you know from top to bottom you [TS]

  know the magic starts basically at the [TS]

  quantum level where my physics courses [TS]

  ran out like that's where the magic [TS]

  starts that's pretty long that's pretty [TS]

  low down everything else is like I'm not [TS]

  scared of it it doesn't seem magical the [TS]

  other thing I forgot to mention about [TS]

  having a background in the fundamentals [TS]

  is it also gates how high you can go so [TS]

  if you want to make an iOS application [TS]

  chances are good that you won't need any [TS]

  sort of in-depth knowledge about data [TS]

  structures and you know fundamental [TS]

  computer signs the algorithms or even [TS]

  things like neural networks and stuff [TS]

  like that because the frameworks do a [TS]

  lot for you and probably your [TS]

  application is not a complicated as you [TS]

  think it is like probably it's just a [TS]

  fairly basic application right but if [TS]

  you are building a more complicated [