The Accidental Tech Podcast

263: Old Potato


  meanwhile Adams upstairs right now [TS]

  having nightmares about old potatoes all [TS]

  right so as usual we should start with [TS]

  some follow-up and I shouldn't be [TS]

  excited about this one and only [TS]

  follow-up item and I shouldn't be [TS]

  excited because it's about boring big [TS]

  business stuff but I'm actually kind of [TS]

  excited about this because it's some [TS]

  news about nomads so tell me about what [TS]

  Nomad is what problem it's supposed to [TS]

  solve and whether or not it solves it [TS]

  last time we talked about this it was [TS]

  like me complaining that I got a new [TS]

  computer at work and my new computer was [TS]

  on the Active Directory network and it [TS]

  was a Mac and I was complaining about [TS]

  how it seemed like being on the Active [TS]

  Directory network was making lots of [TS]

  things about my Mac worse and I was sad [TS]

  about it and then and follow up on the [TS]

  subsequent shows a lot of people send us [TS]

  information about this thing called [TS]

  Nomad they said hey you should try this [TS]

  I think the story I was told by a couple [TS]

  of people in feedback was like Apple's [TS]

  Active Directory support is not great in [TS]

  Mac OS and it never really has been and [TS]

  there was like a consulting wing of a [TS]

  ball that would like come to your [TS]

  company and help you set up all your [TS]

  Mac's for you for your big you know [TS]

  enterprise or whatever and the [TS]

  consulting company recognizing the [TS]

  apples Active Directory stuff wasn't [TS]

  that good but also recognizing that they [TS]

  weren't in a position to make it better [TS]

  came up with the system just like sort [TS]

  of a series of like shell scripts and [TS]

  other little programs and stuff that [TS]

  would try to give you the effects of [TS]

  Active Directory without actually being [TS]

  Active Directory and that they would [TS]

  pitch that to their clients and what my [TS]

  recollection was that this is like a [TS]

  this is an apple not not like just a [TS]

  consultant but like actually part of [TS]

  Apple going to help people and this part [TS]

  of Apple because it wasn't empowered to [TS]

  change Mac OS what was doing this other [TS]

  thing and giving it to clients I don't [TS]

  know if I got that part right but anyway [TS]

  we will put the link in the show notes [TS]

  they have a dot main new domain Nomad [TS]

  had done menu which i think is not good [TS]

  you can you can look at their website [TS]

  and read about what it does that there's [TS]

  a blog post from another company that it [TS]

  does Mac related enterprise stuff the [TS]

  basically thing you get [TS]

  gives you the experience of accurate [TS]

  director that requiring as they put it a [TS]

  bind to ad so you're not constantly [TS]

  connected to Active Directory and you [TS]

  know all the things that I thought were [TS]

  making my Mac slower like me trying to [TS]

  wake it up from sleep and meet you know [TS]

  getting to the point where I can enter [TS]

  my password to unlock my computer or you [TS]

  know random spinners before it will [TS]

  allow me to have network access and [TS]

  stuff like that in theory this thing [TS]

  would help so I took that feedback this [TS]

  idea that sounds kind of neat but it's [TS]

  not like I have any control over when [TS]

  when or if that's going to happen but I [TS]

  had a pleasant surprise a couple weeks [TS]

  ago and my work started doing a trial of [TS]

  this and I asked if you want to sign up [TS]

  I said yes and like a day or two later [TS]

  some Active Directory stuff disappeared [TS]

  from my Mac and there's no mads stuff [TS]

  appeared and so I could have to try it [TS]

  and I have to say I'm about a week in [TS]

  here it feels like a lot of the things [TS]

  that seemed stupidly slow are not stupid [TS]

  they slow anymore that's good it's much [TS]

  faster for me to when I wake my computer [TS]

  up or whatever to get to the point where [TS]

  it lets me enter my password the [TS]

  computer unlocks faster and I feel less [TS]

  like hangs for no reason so I'm pretty [TS]

  happy with it so far [TS]

  via well this also lets me know that my [TS]

  complaints about touch ID on the Mac [TS]

  we're not related to Active Directory [TS]

  because now I'm not on active director [TS]

  anymore and still touch ID on my 2017 [TS]

  15-inch MacBook Pro like when I want [TS]

  unlock my computer sometimes the screen [TS]

  will say enter your password or do touch [TS]

  ID and that's what the screen says but [TS]

  me repeatedly putting my finger on the [TS]

  touch ID thing is telling me that it is [TS]

  not reading my finger like it's not like [TS]

  it's failing it just doesn't do the care [TS]

  my fingers there at all it doesn't have [TS]

  the little to put your finger here arrow [TS]

  animation it's just completely blank and [TS]

  putting your finger there as many times [TS]

  as you want doesn't work when it does [TS]

  work it's great but when it doesn't work [TS]

  it makes me sit there with my finger on [TS]

  the stupid thing putting it up and down [TS]

  until I realize Oh [TS]

  type my password why do I have my [TS]

  password this time who knows but anyway [TS]

  I'm guessing it's not Active Directory [TS]

  related that's interesting my work has [TS]

  been grumbly about Active Directory [TS]

  stuff and so we've kicked around the [TS]

  idea of nomad but none of us really knew [TS]

  much about it so I will have to point my [TS]

  IT people to the to this episode of the [TS]

  beginning of it so hi Rory this was for [TS]

  you even though you didn't know it but [TS]

  yeah well definitely check that out [TS]

  that's super cool because the nice the [TS]

  advantage of being in a place that's [TS]

  only 500 or so people is that you know [TS]

  there's an IT group of maybe five to ten [TS]

  people which means you know I can [TS]

  actually somewhat influence this [TS]

  decision-making insofar as if I put in a [TS]

  good word you know that's that's that's [TS]

  a positive thing so cool no I'm glad [TS]

  it's working out well any other [TS]

  follow-up let me just I'm some printed [TS]

  real-time follow-up from the question of [TS]

  the chatroom yes I know that sometimes [TS]

  you have to actually press the touch ID [TS]

  button thingy to get it to try to [TS]

  register I'd do that and it were just [TS]

  will not register like so sometimes it [TS]

  just it's not in the mood to read my [TS]

  finger and I don't know why despite the [TS]

  messages on the screen to the contrary I [TS]

  have some news we have another new child [TS]

  in the house we have adopted a child [TS]

  called elector that's not news you told [TS]

  us that last week I did I tell you that [TS]

  it was forthcoming okay that I'd [TS]

  forgotten about that so yeah so I like [TS]

  this here now remind me John in your [TS]

  household you are mostly on Google home [TS]

  is that right yeah I've got a regular [TS]

  Google home and I've got a mini Google [TS]

  home and then I have the home pod that [TS]

  we talked about last week okay and then [TS]

  what's going on in the Armen household [TS]

  you guys are all they don't elect oh is [TS]

  that right oh yeah she's my girl so this [TS]

  is the first time that I have ever had [TS]

  any sort of smart thing in my house [TS]

  there's a joke here I see it I don't [TS]

  care [TS]

  there it's the first time I've ever ever [TS]

  had any sort of smart assistant in the [TS]

  house because Siri definitely does not [TS]

  count so I I had heard from other people [TS]

  talking about the lady in the tube that [TS]

  they that she has skills and things and [TS]

  that you can add stuff on to her and and [TS]

  so I was vaguely familiar with the [TS]

  ecosystem that I was trying to set up so [TS]

  you know I got the lady in a tube I set [TS]

  it up which was pretty straightforward [TS]

  it's like you know a Wemo light switch [TS]

  or something like that you know [TS]

  you connect to its Wi-Fi it reads your [TS]

  Wi-Fi then everything reconnects to the [TS]

  regular Wi-Fi and things happen this is [TS]

  an old news to probably 95% of the [TS]

  people listening anyway I added a few [TS]

  skills and it's cool it works to Spotify [TS]

  which is great [TS]

  doesn't sound like utter garbage which [TS]

  is surprising I wouldn't say it sounds [TS]

  great but it is listenable I would not [TS]

  plan to use it for music I like that and [TS]

  you're playing music on it that's what [TS]

  you're doing you gotta know like when [TS]

  you're playing music on well done oh I [TS]

  tried it just to see and it got [TS]

  surprisingly loud and it didn't sound uh [TS]

  turley terrible again I would not say it [TS]

  sounds good [TS]

  she knows a lot of animal facts you [TS]

  should ask her about animals I well I [TS]

  tried to install a scale I don't [TS]

  remember what it was called that's [TS]

  basically like a quiz for Declan you [TS]

  know what animal makes this sound and [TS]

  the one I found was clearly written by [TS]

  someone who does not use English as [TS]

  their first language and it was just [TS]

  very peculiar so you don't have to [TS]

  answer right now but if you have some [TS]

  sort of suggestions about like toddler [TS]

  friendly games which you guys may have [TS]

  gotten this too late because that I may [TS]

  have been too old at that point but if [TS]

  you do have suggestions [TS]

  Adam basically tells elected to play [TS]

  timber by Kesha [TS]

  no he also likes fire ball he's always [TS]

  like Alexa play fire ball by pitbull so [TS]

  that's how he communicates with Alexa [TS]

  we're not really playing animal games [TS]

  we've passed that and we've moved on to [TS]

  the inappropriate hip-hop stage so it's [TS]

  it's fine but yeah I mean we had books [TS]

  and stuff for that that you hit the [TS]

  little the like the sound animal buttons [TS]

  on the side are like old school like the [TS]

  ones that haunted Lex his house that one [TS]

  time Dora the explora book that was [TS]

  haunting him [TS]

  yeah the battery was going low and I was [TS]

  making a terrible noise I remember and [TS]

  he like tore apart half his house to [TS]

  find it and it ended up being a stupid [TS]

  book but yeah we we mainly use it for [TS]

  weather Adam will ask the weather in the [TS]

  morning and it actually talking to [TS]

  electa greatly helped him improve his [TS]

  pronunciation because oh that's [TS]

  interesting he would get frustrated that [TS]

  she wouldn't understand him so then he [TS]

  would have to articulate the word Allah [TS]

  bit more and I really think that talking [TS]

  to her has helped him develop his [TS]

  linguistical skills [TS]

  he's more receptive to instruction than [TS]

  my children because my children have the [TS]

  same problem and I tell them you have to [TS]

  enunciate and it will understand you [TS]

  better and they say they roll their eyes [TS]

  in and say forget it [TS]

  I'd say yeah Adam really really wanted [TS]

  to hear fire ball by Pitbull so he made [TS]

  sure he got that right he's got no other [TS]

  way to do it yeah he learned that like [TS]

  that syntax play fire ball by Pitbull [TS]

  like if he just says play fire ball I'm [TS]

  sure there's other songs that are by far [TS]

  like did you own oh yeah he'll say he'll [TS]

  say by pitbull and he also he found it [TS]

  really funny that when he tells electus [TS]

  aid he said electa play nothing that it [TS]

  will play a song called nothing and he [TS]

  thinks that's really funny because he [TS]

  told her to play nothing when then she [TS]

  goes and plays something so yeah he [TS]

  asked the weather like I said it's [TS]

  pretty good animal facts and other basic [TS]

  facts asking it and setting timers and [TS]

  stuff but yeah and oh he's been setting [TS]

  a timers with it too cuz every time [TS]

  we're like alright you know you have [TS]

  five minutes for this and he'll set a [TS]

  timer oh in the morning he comes [TS]

  downstairs by himself he like gets up [TS]

  gets dressed brushes his teeth and comes [TS]

  downstairs and tells elect to turn on [TS]

  the lights so he's pretty capable now [TS]

  it's like a little person it's amazing [TS]

  asking the weather is actually the most [TS]

  common use of Siri in my house and it [TS]

  started many years ago with my daughter [TS]

  coming to my bedside table and using [TS]

  whatever device I have there to find out [TS]

  what the weather is so chic affair out [TS]

  what she wants to wear although she [TS]

  ostensibly it's to find out what you're [TS]

  supposed to wear but regardless what the [TS]

  weather is she just wears clothing that [TS]

  is not appropriate for the weather so I [TS]

  don't know kids these days the key fact [TS]

  is that you you don't need to unlock any [TS]

  of my devices to get the weather you can [TS]

  you know hold down the little button and [TS]

  then say what's the weather and it will [TS]

  give you the weather report without the [TS]

  device being unlocked so that's why [TS]

  she's using cheap even she has her own [TS]

  devices now but she still likes to come [TS]

  into my room and use my iPad or my [TS]

  iPhone to get the weather report so I [TS]

  was trying to think how often does Siri [TS]

  get used and like well I use it set a [TS]

  reminder once every few weeks or [TS]

  something mostly we don't use it then I [TS]

  realize it gets used everyday to tell my [TS]

  daughter [TS]

  yeah and so it's been interesting for us [TS]

  trying to I mean again it's been all of [TS]

  a day but you know starting to figure [TS]

  out how can this integrate into our [TS]

  lives because we didn't exactly seek [TS]

  this out right it kind of fell in our [TS]

  laps just like my white cars it's so [TS]

  anyway it just kind of appeared if you [TS]

  will and we're trying to figure out [TS]

  where does this fit in our lives because [TS]

  this is not something we we've like [TS]

  wanted and so far it seems like weather [TS]

  and timers have been popular we did [TS]

  enjoy doing a little bit of Spotify just [TS]

  because it's nice to be able to call out [TS]

  across the room you know hey yo lady in [TS]

  the can play such-and-such by so-and-so [TS]

  oh you can ask it to tell you stories or [TS]

  jokes oh good to know I did not know [TS]

  that yeah Adam and during Halloween [TS]

  really enjoyed asking the lady in the [TS]

  can to tell him a scary story but there [TS]

  they weren't really scary it was like [TS]

  old potato like okay see where did you [TS]

  physically put it so well actually TIFF [TS]

  may remember this but it's next to the [TS]

  plant on ledge by the table in between [TS]

  the living room and the table duh that's [TS]

  exactly totally John so basically are if [TS]

  you walk in from the garage you're [TS]

  dumped directly in our kitchen from the [TS]

  kitchen to the little breakfast nook [TS]

  from the breakfast breakfast up to like [TS]

  our main living or a family room [TS]

  whatever you want to call it and there's [TS]

  a little ledge in between the breakfast [TS]

  nook and the family room and so we just [TS]

  stuck it there for now on a piece of [TS]

  wood and if after all the home pod stuff [TS]

  I'm like man should I get a little doily [TS]

  for this or what I don't even know but [TS]

  we put it there because you know that's [TS]

  easy access orally verbally whatever to [TS]

  both the kitchen and the family room and [TS]

  so without having to like scream you [TS]

  know most of the downstairs can can hear [TS]

  or can can speak to her and can hear her [TS]

  and one of the striking things to me [TS]

  about this which I think I [TS]

  intellectually knew but it creeped me [TS]

  out to see on the lady app on your phone [TS]

  it actually shows you hey here's the [TS]

  things that you've said recently what [TS]

  you know of itself okay I can kind [TS]

  understand that but that's a little [TS]

  weird but then you can listen to [TS]

  yourself making these requests which is [TS]

  again like understandable my brain [TS]

  understands of course it's listening to [TS]

  you that's how it does things [TS]

  but like it's also recording me which is [TS]

  a little weird but I still mostly [TS]

  understand it but it's saving that which [TS]

  is a little weird even though I do [TS]

  understand it so that's like a little [TS]

  bit funny and that did creep me back [TS]

  kicked me out a little bit the only [TS]

  skills I've installed are any list which [TS]

  we spoke about an episode or two ago [TS]

  which I didn't realize you actually have [TS]

  to flip a switch on the lists within any [TS]

  list in order to get them lady in the [TS]

  tube enabled and once I did that it's [TS]

  been working pretty well we don't have [TS]

  nest thermostats because we're not cool [TS]

  like that but we have you know one of [TS]

  the men it's not Honeywell but it's like [TS]

  some other manufacturers rough [TS]

  equivalent and so I've installed a skill [TS]

  for that it's the nexia skill and EXI a [TS]

  but I haven't actually tried it yet I've [TS]

  installed an arrow skill that I haven't [TS]

  tried and the aforementioned garbage [TS]

  gets the animal sound oh I haven't done [TS]

  much with it but it is neat it is more [TS]

  neat and more convenient than I thought [TS]

  it would be but I wouldn't say that it [TS]

  has changed my world quite yet and the [TS]

  one thing that did strike me as super [TS]

  world-changing no sarcasm intended is [TS]

  being able to just shout at the tube you [TS]

  know hey play timber by Pitbull or [TS]

  whatever the case may be in our case it [TS]

  was actually play you know five little [TS]

  ducks by Raffi [TS]

  but anyway are you gonna update that [TS]

  yeah well in you know being able to be [TS]

  being able to be synced with Spotify it [TS]

  that's really cool because I pay for [TS]

  Spotify anyway and just having it being [TS]

  able to use Spotify and then if I turn [TS]

  Spotify on on my phone we can do the I [TS]

  forget the term for it but the thing [TS]

  where you can control other Spotify [TS]

  clients and so even the hardware buttons [TS]

  on my phone as long as the phone was [TS]

  left in kind of like Spotify mode the [TS]

  hardware buttons on my phone can control [TS]

  the volume of the lady in the tube [TS]

  playing music which is super cool I'm [TS]

  not even entirely clear how that works [TS]

  but it does and and so in that sense the [TS]

  all this integration is super awesome [TS]

  and it occurred to me wow I really wish [TS]

  that like this tube was a much better [TS]

  speaker and I thought well then that I [TS]

  should get a home pod and then I thought [TS]

  well no because I can't use Spotify with [TS]

  it in the way I want and then it [TS]

  occurred to me like I don't know where [TS]

  I've been for the last two years but [TS]

  they make an echo [TS]

  what is it a little dot or something [TS]

  like that the echo dot that I can plug [TS]

  into the stereo like why have I not [TS]

  thought of this for two years and I [TS]

  could just shout it this little you know [TS]

  dot echo dot or whatever it's called you [TS]

  know hey lady in the tube play yo timber [TS]

  buy pit ball and it would play on our [TS]

  home theater stereo which is not a [TS]

  remarkably great stereo in fact it's [TS]

  kind of crappy but it's the best stereo [TS]

  we have in the house why didn't I do [TS]

  this a long time ago why do I do this to [TS]

  myself so how does the other people in [TS]

  your house feel about YouTube uh Aaron [TS]

  is kind of ambivalent about it she I [TS]

  don't think she's really embraced it as [TS]

  yet partially because it's been a day [TS]

  partially because I don't think she's [TS]

  really seen me successfully like add [TS]

  things to the grocery list a few times [TS]

  or you know she's not one to typically [TS]

  play music if I'm not around so usually [TS]

  I'm like the family DJ Declan is scared [TS]

  to talk to it in not in be like oh god [TS]

  oh god way but the nd like I'm bashful [TS]

  and shy way but he does enjoy the fact [TS]

  that we can talk to it and asked me to [TS]

  talk to it from time to time and [TS]

  Michaela is just sitting there as per [TS]

  expectations so it's so far I wouldn't [TS]

  say it's a rousing success but I mean [TS]

  I'm enjoying it more than I thought I [TS]

  would and 417 or so dollars that it cost [TS]

  me to ship it here it's worth 17 dollars [TS]

  I don't know that I personally would pay [TS]

  like 100 150 or in the key in the case [TS]

  of the home pod three hundred and fifty [TS]

  dollars for something like this [TS]

  especially in the case of the home pod [TS]

  where Siri is in my personal opinion [TS]

  kind of garbage but it's it's pretty [TS]

  cool I like it I mean a few of the times [TS]

  that made me felt fall really in love [TS]

  with the lady in the tube was when we [TS]

  have gay nights and we all end up having [TS]

  like song suggestion battles and we just [TS]

  keep interrupting each other songs to [TS]

  play other songs and it just gets really [TS]

  fun the back and forth just yelling at [TS]

  Alexa to do different things and in [TS]

  addition you can also order stuff on [TS]

  your friends electives and that gets [TS]

  pretty fun too so yeah I don't know it's [TS]

  cool I don't see myself buying a home [TS]

  pod although it wouldn't surprise me if [TS]

  that's on the birthday list like I did [TS]

  it occurred to me that all this waffling [TS]

  I'm doing in front of Aaron is probably [TS]

  not helping her for my birthday shopping [TS]

  because my birthday's in two weeks so I [TS]

  don't know if she's if she's looking to [TS]

  buy me a home pod would never buy me a [TS]

  home pod has already bought me a home [TS]

  pod I don't know what the plan is rut [TS]

  you're a child Kizzy [TS]

  oh no argument here I'm fine with that [TS]

  but it just occurred to me that I that I [TS]

  need to be more clear about what my [TS]

  desires are for the home pod just in [TS]

  case that's on her radar but the thing [TS]

  is I still don't know what I want to do [TS]

  had a home pod I feel like it's not [TS]

  something I want except I do think [TS]

  having a really great speaker would be [TS]

  nice so if you listen to this podcast [TS]

  what she won't say you should tell her [TS]

  separately maybe she can get you a dot [TS]

  because it's cheaper and it'll give you [TS]

  something to hook up to your good [TS]

  speakers that is true now John how was [TS]

  your home pod second week on it's not [TS]

  seeing much use like I mean I don't [TS]

  think my kids know that they can ask it [TS]

  the weather or maybe my daughter just [TS]

  likes to use the stuff on my nightstand [TS]

  because it's closer to her bedroom where [TS]

  she's deciding what she's going to wear [TS]

  but yeah not really getting much use I [TS]

  mean my Google Homes don't get much use [TS]

  either it's just that they're they're [TS]

  there when I need them to be there like [TS]

  that's the key component of these things [TS]

  is I don't don't use them that [TS]

  frequently certainly not daily probably [TS]

  not even weekly but in the moment when I [TS]

  have a desire and I'm too lazy to get up [TS]

  or too lazy to go get my phone or just [TS]

  want to know right now the fact that I [TS]

  can yell something into the air and get [TS]

  satisfaction immediately is great and so [TS]

  I feel like it's well worth the money [TS]

  for these things just just for those [TS]

  times and of course like I said when my [TS]

  kids have friends over they use them you [TS]

  know they become the house DJs and they [TS]

  use them to play whatever songs they [TS]

  want and laugh and do whatever they're [TS]

  doing and interrupt each other songs and [TS]

  stuff like that so it's a it's a home [TS]

  entertainment device to keep the [TS]

  children entertained as well Alexa play [TS]

  tub-thumping by Chumbawamba valentines [TS]

  top 4 just earlier today I'm Way behind [TS]

  on podcast and yeah that gargle is bad [TS]

  but tub-thumping I can't I cannot abide [TS]

  by that is they it's like their own [TS]

  personal never going to give you up [TS]

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  show make your next move make your next [TS]

  website any other thoughts about ladies [TS]

  and canisters and tubes and cylinders [TS]

  and things of that nature tips not in a [TS]

  cylinder but do not explain why she's [TS]

  here well Marco is sick so they found [TS]

  another armand and replaced him so hey [TS]

  it's me and who are you I'm TIFF I'm [TS]

  lossless introduce yourself hi I'm [TS]

  Tiffany Armand you may know me from such [TS]

  podcast as top 4 or playing for fun with [TS]

  real AFM's Michael Hurley I'm also [TS]

  sometimes on ATP and I'm married to [TS]

  Marco Arment who's usually on ATP BAM [TS]

  there you go you can find me on the web [TS]

  under Tiffany Armen alright you skimmed [TS]

  over the part about Marco being sick [TS]

  which is kind of vague he's not dying [TS]

  and I think he could have been on the [TS]

  program but he doesn't feel well enough [TS]

  to do it so here we are [TS]

  hey screw you man oh god I can't talk [TS]

  you jackass [TS]

  God is somebody having fun with terminal [TS]

  and thus a command not that were [TS]

  complaining is great to have Tiff's I'm [TS]

  just saying do you guys remember smarter [TS]

  child you remember talking to that bot [TS]

  know what there was a bot smarter child [TS]

  in like the 90s that you would talk to [TS]

  they I don't think I ever did it but now [TS]

  that you mentioned was a nineties thing [TS]

  I think I vaguely remember it but I [TS]

  don't think I did it no we all did it [TS]

  you know after school chatting with [TS]

  smarter child on a messenger like all [TS]

  the cool kids do eating snacks talking a [TS]

  smarter child listening to no doubt you [TS]

  do you know what piece of 90s nostalgia [TS]

  just came back recently I feel like [TS]

  every six months or so maybe it's every [TS]

  year for some reason or another somebody [TS]

  brings up I CQ like you know the the the [TS]

  precursor predecessor or we know don't [TS]

  know what you're talking about [TS]

  see thank you Tiff's so I CQ the letters [TS]

  I see and Q which is supposed to you [TS]

  know be funny because it's also the [TS]

  words I seek you it was like the first [TS]

  particularly popular online presence [TS]

  like I am applications so this was [TS]

  before either before AOL Instant [TS]

  Messenger existed or it was before it [TS]

  existed to anyone outside of AOL I don't [TS]

  know exactly what the timeline was but [TS]

  what was interesting about ICQ and I [TS]

  think it does still exist but what was [TS]

  interesting about I CQ in its heyday [TS]

  which was like mid 90s maybe late 90s [TS]

  was that it had sequential user numbers [TS]

  not unlike Twitter actually and so for [TS]

  whatever and you actually use these user [TS]

  numbers like I believe that was the [TS]

  equivalent of a screen name and so [TS]

  everyone knew their user numbers and to [TS]

  this day welded into my brain that's [TS]

  probably not the right phrasing but [TS]

  whatever somewhere in my brain in a [TS]

  place that I cannot remove it is one two [TS]

  oh two five seven two and I will never [TS]

  forget that probably for the rest of my [TS]

  life and I just it's funny because you [TS]

  know you bring up two if you know this [TS]

  weird bit of nostalgia that just comes [TS]

  up out of nowhere I really feel like [TS]

  every six months or so somebody brings [TS]

  up I CQ and/or their I CQ number I don't [TS]

  know why but it happens all the time [TS]

  there's a new TV show on Netflix called [TS]

  everything sucks and it's very 90s they [TS]

  pretty much just I like throw in all [TS]

  these 90s [TS]

  for instance just for people our age to [TS]

  be like remember that and you know it's [TS]

  like little uh teaser can't nineties [TS]

  candy kind of show and mark when I just [TS]

  binge watched it because we've been sick [TS]

  so it was pretty fun I suggested to [TS]

  anybody who is feeling some ninety love [TS]

  go for it so you never had Isaac you [TS]

  know no I started with AOL Instant [TS]

  Messenger I think they were kind of [TS]

  contemporary I had all these things [TS]

  right but I was not as into any of them [TS]

  to remember my ICQ number it was a [TS]

  pretty big number too but like it was it [TS]

  was like anything else where I would I [TS]

  was more fractured than than it is now [TS]

  like you talked to some people and Isaac [TS]

  you some people in Ames some people I [TS]

  talked to on the you know the [TS]

  universities like real-time [TS]

  communication thing like just using the [TS]

  talk command [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  Isaac you had this terribly drawn flower [TS]

  icon on the Mac oh yeah it was not a [TS]

  good looking icon by any stretch part [TS]

  goes in the chat room letting everyone [TS]

  know is that your number you all have [TS]

  big numbers too I think I get my number [TS]

  was similar like I just don't remember [TS]

  what our screen names are gone now right [TS]

  or do can you like look up stuff with [TS]

  people's screen names cuz someone just [TS]

  asked about what my screen name was and [TS]

  it's pretty really teenager II and I [TS]

  don't know if I should say it screen [TS]

  name for what aim yeah no one can do [TS]

  anything weird with that can they aim [TS]

  aim just recently shut down I know [TS]

  because I got the message that said hey [TS]

  you've been signed onto him every day [TS]

  since it existed but guess what it's [TS]

  going away because I was still on an [TS]

  Adium is it gone now and all yeah I got [TS]

  the message about it once I got the [TS]

  message I deleted it oh well I I guess I [TS]

  still had mine but I saved all the [TS]

  important chat messages from when Marco [TS]

  and I first met because we're super cute [TS]

  like that I actually have some I think I [TS]

  might have our first instant messenger [TS]

  conversation somewhere buried between [TS]

  Aaron and me and every couple of years I [TS]

  stumble on it so because we're also [TS]

  super I'll go with cute maybe creepy I [TS]

  don't know well it's like saving love [TS]

  letters right right no I'm serious [TS]

  that's hilarious listening not listening [TS]

  but rereading this because it's like [TS]

  after you've been with any human being [TS]

  for a long time being married or just [TS]

  you know partners or [TS]

  ever you you as a couple will chant like [TS]

  you as individuals and you as a couple [TS]

  will change and looking at like this [TS]

  totally like you know scuffing of the [TS]

  feet looking down at my toes Casey like [TS]

  hey maybe we can chalk later [TS]

  as opposed today's dynamic the wall [TS]

  scaling ice crushing Casey I'm picturing [TS]

  you in overalls with a daisy hanging out [TS]

  of the butt pocket right that's how [TS]

  these like these these chats between [TS]

  Aaron and I read it's it's hilarious and [TS]

  of merit and embarrassing but [TS]

  nevertheless it is adorable to go back [TS]

  to them yeah Markos and I we were all [TS]

  like oh well what do you what's your [TS]

  favorite meal and do you like [TS]

  thunderstorms nice so the generation [TS]

  before like had to save their paper love [TS]

  letters your generation is saving your [TS]

  just right but the current generation [TS]

  does have to say to anything because [TS]

  it'll be in the cloud forever lucky [TS]

  bastards like don't want to expunge it [TS]

  right after they get divorced and they [TS]

  won't be able to like Google sergers [TS]

  will still turn it up because it's [TS]

  feeding some training model and in [TS]

  Google's giant time machine learning [TS]

  cloud all right so what was your aim [TS]

  name Casey let's let's see what yours [TS]

  was [TS]

  I think I have mentioned this at some [TS]

  point in the past so I was trying to [TS]

  think of like a cool 90s aim name I [TS]

  don't know I think it was 97 ish that I [TS]

  joined into the messenger 96 97 [TS]

  something like that and so I'm sorry [TS]

  think of a cool name I needed a cool [TS]

  name and and I was on the bus on the way [TS]

  home from high school and and my my [TS]

  friend Ben was talking about how he's [TS]

  trying to learn to play bass and he had [TS]

  gotten a lot of blisters on his fingers [TS]

  and I thought ah got it [TS]

  Lister but no it gets better it was even [TS]

  worse than that [TS]

  exactly robot mark oh I know what it is [TS]

  because I had your aim address it's all [TS]

  coming back to me now mmm I haven't [TS]

  blocked it out but now I in fact I can [TS]

  probably pull you up on my buddy list [TS]

  right now if I could connect to the [TS]

  service it's like a metal name like my [TS]

  name is buzz right I'm saying it was [TS]

  such a great name do you have like did [TS]

  you have like a nose piercing with a [TS]

  safety pin yeah [TS]

  yeah that's definitely me no I was like [TS]

  that you know the the dorkiest white boy [TS]

  in the world at which surprises no one [TS]

  but nevertheless it turns out that that [TS]

  the word blister BL is ter was taken who [TS]

  knew so what do you do if blister is [TS]

  taken in your final 15 16 17 years old [TS]

  however old I was at the time BL is TA [TS]

  of course blister on the end of it yeah [TS]

  that's 69 or bliss to 6730 2 & 4 you [TS]

  know or whatever it's those were the [TS]

  worst [TS]

  so TIFF now that you've compelled me to [TS]

  share it is now your turn [TS]

  okay well mine is really like whey feed [TS]

  teenage I'm like super deep and write [TS]

  poetry [TS]

  mine was ma Mt [TS]

  Jas which stood for music always makes [TS]

  the journey sweeter oh wow [TS]

  and it was also the title of a painting [TS]

  that I liked by this really weird artist [TS]

  I believe his name was James Christensen [TS]

  he was like some Mormon artist guy that [TS]

  a Mormon boy showed me and because I was [TS]

  super in love with him and hey hey hey [TS]

  yeah it was in high school dude I didn't [TS]

  even meet you yet robot Marco though [TS]

  don't be in love with Mormons oh no it [TS]

  was a whole scene he he died don't even [TS]

  think he's straight like it's no it was [TS]

  it was a whole thing it was a whole [TS]

  thing he was deep though he played the [TS]

  piano beautifully mm-hmm we hung out out [TS]

  on the jetty you know it's those type of [TS]

  things so yeah [TS]

  music always makes the journey sweeter [TS]

  explain to Marcone Casey what a jetty is [TS]

  they don't know what a jetty is it's a [TS]

  big hole bunch of rocks that jut out [TS]

  into some water that kids go out on and [TS]

  Marga might know now your urine doctor [TS]

  having him into Long Island culture well [TS]

  it's true he knows now I don't think [TS]

  he's been out he's seen the rock jetties [TS]

  but he hasn't ventured out on them or [TS]

  gotten stuck on the end when the high [TS]

  tide comes in until he slipped it and [TS]

  given himself a terrible cut on the [TS]

  barnacles or something that he hasn't [TS]

  really arrived yeah exactly [TS]

  until you grab like you know a croissant [TS]

  from the local bakery and go out on the [TS]

  jetty and cuddle a little bit you [TS]

  haven't lived so these these are a m-- [TS]

  you know yeah the same names [TS]

  but were they did they span outside the [TS]

  service that they become an identity [TS]

  outside the services just the names that [TS]

  you picked for the thing because I think [TS]

  a lot of a common thing in the early [TS]

  internet was to be forced to pick some [TS]

  name on a service but lots of people [TS]

  haven't picked named and to come up with [TS]

  something like these two things you're [TS]

  just described these two things yeah and [TS]

  to attach that and then so for the next [TS]

  service to use like the same name [TS]

  because for the same reason because like [TS]

  you know won't be taking any you become [TS]

  to be identified by it that happened oh [TS]

  yeah oh yeah I had my name forever until [TS]

  I started using like my real name places [TS]

  I was always ma'am to just at least know [TS]

  numbers but I think that's worse this is [TS]

  not pronounceable no it's not it doesn't [TS]

  even pronounce that it was a terrible [TS]

  decision made by a really confused [TS]

  person Casey where else did you use [TS]

  blister blister where I could and fell [TS]

  back what if possible I wish my name was [TS]

  bliss name give me give me through [TS]

  Archon again it's like a bass player and [TS]

  he had gun blisters I said no no no no [TS]

  so like my my so if you think I'm nerdy [TS]

  and my friend Ben was even nerdier than [TS]

  I am or at the time anyway and he was [TS]

  learning to play bass and was lamenting [TS]

  on the school bus on the way home from [TS]

  school because we were like a couple of [TS]

  houses down from each other that he was [TS]

  getting blisters all over his hands and [TS]

  this was as I was pontificating about [TS]

  what I should call myself online and [TS]

  that's when I chose blister and the [TS]

  image in your mind blisters that's [TS]

  that's an image I want to associate [TS]

  myself with why not because there's a [TS]

  gross yes but I was 17 years old I'm [TS]

  good how about abrasion yes so you were [TS]

  17 that's way too old to be naming [TS]

  yourself blister I mean whatever it was [TS]

  I was in high school I know I was in [TS]

  high school that I'm sure of [TS]

  so yeah I was probably told to be naming [TS]

  myself that but remember everyone that [TS]

  this was a different era and that things [TS]

  were different back then I had a friend [TS]

  who his name was gravy boat and I was so [TS]

  jealous I'm like that's so good ah sure [TS]

  I thought I wish I thought a gravy boat [TS]

  but that's not better than your name [TS]

  gravy boats amazing are you kidding [TS]

  such a good name my aim name I was [TS]

  can share because the service is now [TS]

  dead was JC siracusa why was it because [TS]

  both Jay Syracuse and Syracuse who were [TS]

  taken because DJ Syracuse it was taken [TS]

  yeah I don't know I've been trying to [TS]

  teach my children don't pick usernames [TS]

  with numbers in them because I feel like [TS]

  that's not something I family does [TS]

  family that we don't but beyond that [TS]

  they're not good at picking usernames [TS]

  I'm and it's hard to do I had to come up [TS]

  with with my son's Playstation account [TS]

  name and like everything is taken and I [TS]

  just wanted something that would like [TS]

  not being embarrassing to anyone in the [TS]

  present or in the future but be somehow [TS]

  meaningful and connected to something [TS]

  right hard it was hard to do we'd spent [TS]

  a long time on that well you know what [TS]

  having you two on the show reminds me [TS]

  that I need to pick a bone with Long [TS]

  Islanders because for the longest time [TS]

  once I realized that I should just start [TS]

  embracing like my actual name like I was [TS]

  you know old enough because remember [TS]

  early Internet you never used both your [TS]

  first and last name on the internet [TS]

  never did that because it was too scary [TS]

  especially if you're a kid not for yeah [TS]

  see that this is weird your yeah that's [TS]

  I felt like that skipped my generation [TS]

  big I guess it was like before you were [TS]

  taught like we at the point I would when [TS]

  I was doing it they were teaching the [TS]

  younger kids not to do that [TS]

  but no one was teaching us not to do [TS]

  that so we did it yeah I think this is [TS]

  one of the rare times I mean this [TS]

  genuinely that I remember that you are [TS]

  more than just a year or two older than [TS]

  I because generally speaking you and I I [TS]

  mean there there are some subtle [TS]

  differences between our upbringings and [TS]

  some bigger ones but but they're not in [TS]

  my face very often and this is one of [TS]

  those times where it's very in my face [TS]

  but anyways when I realized that I [TS]

  should start purchasing domain names [TS]

  because they were less than like a [TS]

  gazillion dollars for comm you know so [TS]

  things had started to level out a little [TS]

  bit for the longest time I wanted to get [TS]

  list comm and for the longest time it [TS]

  was taken by Long Island soda systems [TS]

  and I remain to this day bitter about [TS]

  that because [TS]

  not only did they take my surname and my [TS]

  rightfully deserve domain name but [TS]

  because I wasn't very organized they [TS]

  eventually let it lapse and now some [TS]

  squatter has it and probably wants a [TS]

  billion dollars for you should have been [TS]

  you could have snipe that I know and you [TS]

  should have had a watch on that and [TS]

  picked it up as soon as it came [TS]

  available it's hard to say that you have [TS]

  you know anything because with Li you [TS]

  have to go to Long Island [TS]

  mm-hmm tough luck on that one yeah mmm [TS]

  reign supreme [TS]

  we're sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

  who print your photos and vivid color [TS]

  directly on glass go to fractured up me [TS]

  and save 15% off your first order with [TS]

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  seeing them in a social media feed for a [TS]

  day and then they're buried forever [TS]

  fractures edge-to-edge glass prints look [TS]

  sleek and modern and they fit in with [TS]

  any decor our house is full of them and [TS]

  we always get complements and ordering [TS]

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  order with code 80 P 17 make sure to [TS]

  mention our show when they ask how you [TS]

  heard about them [TS]

  thanks for fracture for sponsoring our [TS]

  show so we actually talk about tech [TS]

  stuff no I like talking about Long [TS]

  Island there is one tech related game [TS]

  related thing that I'd like to do a [TS]

  quick hit on because and TIFF may [TS]

  actually have something to say about it [TS]

  this is a story about Vulcan coming to [TS]

  the map Mac vul kan which is the latest [TS]

  version of well it's a graphics API made [TS]

  by the same consortium that does OpenGL [TS]

  and you know them at all [TS]

  max have open jail and there's a mobile [TS]

  / - open GL es on the iPhones and stuff [TS]

  but it's been years since Apple do [TS]

  anything with the Open GL stack on the [TS]

  Mac and it shows in the performance and [TS]

  features of OpenGL on the Mac which [TS]

  tends to hamper the ability to either [TS]

  make Mac native games which almost [TS]

  nobody and he does or two port games [TS]

  from other platforms because if you make [TS]

  a game and it uses some gaming API that [TS]

  doesn't exist on the Mac that's not [TS]

  gonna work and you need some kind of [TS]

  shim layer to work with OpenGL you know [TS]

  - converting from DirectX token jail or [TS]

  something or if you try to write it [TS]

  portably in OpenGL from all tool [TS]

  platforms OpenGL on the Mac is so old [TS]

  and so slow that you can't like unless [TS]

  you use it as a you know lowest common [TS]

  denominator like and most people don't [TS]

  do that for games it's not good so I [TS]

  think it is hurt gaming gaming [TS]

  performance and game availability on the [TS]

  Mac and so and of course Apple is now [TS]

  doing the metal thing where is a lower [TS]

  level API with a much more modern lower [TS]

  level API that is nevertheless exclusive [TS]

  to Apple platforms it's on iOS cents on [TS]

  the Mac and a lot of game engines have [TS]

  written to that so the unity engine is [TS]

  another what's the other let's say that [TS]

  big damage if you probably know from the [TS]

  opening screens of games unity and [TS]

  unreal I was totally just gonna say that [TS]

  yeah I have support for metal and so [TS]

  that helps bring some games to the Mac [TS]

  is like okay well I'm not writing my [TS]

  game but using OpenGL I'm using an [TS]

  engine and the engine knows how to [TS]

  target these platforms so that has [TS]

  helped a little bit but now finally [TS]

  Vulcan is coming to the Mac not from [TS]

  Apple but from the same I don't know if [TS]

  it's the same consortium it's an open [TS]

  source thing anyway to let people write [TS]

  games using the Vulcan API and then run [TS]

  them on the Mac and on Windows and on [TS]

  wherever with equal feature set and [TS]

  there's a couple stories we'll put the [TS]

  links in the show notes of like oh they [TS]

  tried porting a game and the Vulcan [TS]

  implementation even though Vulcan is [TS]

  just like translating those calls down [TS]

  into metal for the game to run is like [TS]

  50% faster than the old version which [TS]

  would translate the calls down to the [TS]

  OpenGL stack so I feel like this is yet [TS]

  another nail in the coffin of OpenGL on [TS]

  the Mac which is basically been dead [TS]

  ever since Apple decided they never [TS]

  gonna update it again but having it [TS]

  there and having it be old and slow was [TS]

  just depressing and like I didn't it was [TS]

  almost like I didn't like it when games [TS]

  used the quote-unquote native Mac API [TS]

  because it was slow so now [TS]

  just all the game makers are taking this [TS]

  all out of Apple's hands and I'm hoping [TS]

  what it will mean is better performance [TS]

  for games when running on the Mac like [TS]

  so you know what to reboot into Windows [TS]

  like running games in steam or whatever [TS]

  on the Mac and finally everyone giving [TS]

  up on waiting for Apple to do anything [TS]

  gaming related on the Mac other than you [TS]

  know because they changed the window [TS]

  server to metal I think in cearĂ¡ or High [TS]

  Sierra I forget one but like I'm you [TS]

  know OpenGL seems to be fading fast I [TS]

  wish I wish Apple instead had just said [TS]

  oh never mind we realized we should have [TS]

  kept updating OpenGL and making it [TS]

  faster and better but it doesn't seem [TS]

  like they're doing that so I'm glad [TS]

  someone else is doing it for them I'm [TS]

  excited for all the games I play on my [TS]

  Mac I like games do you reboot into [TS]

  Windows to play games you mostly just [TS]

  play them on Steam on your Mac I play [TS]

  mine on Steam on Mac I haven't played [TS]

  any games on my Mac except Firewatch [TS]

  which I almost forgot the name of that's [TS]

  how long it's been and that was very [TS]

  good but that is the only time I've ever [TS]

  played a game on my Mac oh and you did [TS]

  do boot camp as he had always been [TS]

  complaints about how hard it was to get [TS]

  boot camp on what game was that for oh [TS]

  that was for the inside Thank you Thank [TS]

  You robot Marco inside I've totally [TS]

  forgotten that wasn't do they just not [TS]

  have the Mac port out then or are they [TS]

  still not yeah the Mac port wasn't out [TS]

  it literally came out like a week after [TS]

  we recorded or like a few days after we [TS]

  recorded or it was coming out while I [TS]

  was playing the game but I needed the [TS]

  time to play the game before I could I [TS]

  saw I couldn't wait for the port to come [TS]

  out that's another podcast your own [TS]

  occasionally you didn't you didn't [TS]

  listed in your list of podcast if is [TS]

  also on the inoperable occasionally oh [TS]

  and I'm also I'm a player on all the [TS]

  game show the incorpo game shows stuff [TS]

  yeah Boulder - I mean not Boulder - low [TS]

  definition no no that's a copyrighted [TS]

  trademark game owned by some other [TS]

  company no we don't play - Boulder - at [TS]

  all I don't even know what game that is [TS]

  I never heard of it before in my life [TS]

  low definition yeah the lowest of lows [TS]

  and the highest of highs alright let's [TS]

  talk about this weird patent that just [TS]

  came out which is that really that weird [TS]

  in the grand scheme of things so [TS]

  patently Apple they noticed that Apple [TS]

  has been granted a patent for a dual [TS]

  display MacBook or perhaps second [TS]

  generation iPad pro so the gist of it is [TS]

  there's a display that you look at in a [TS]

  display that you would ostensibly type [TS]

  on and since Marco has done a little bit [TS]

  of kvetching and complaining about the [TS]

  modern keyboards I think this is really [TS]

  we should just call this the marco [TS]

  patent this is to make marco happy [TS]

  because clearly the answer to Marco's [TS]

  problems is if dust is a problem Marco [TS]

  will just remove any mechanism by which [TS]

  dust could get in the keyboard because [TS]

  there is no into the keyboard it's all [TS]

  just glass so you're welcome Marco it's [TS]

  all for you I actually don't think [TS]

  there's that much to say about this I [TS]

  put it in here mostly so we can refer [TS]

  people back to the original discussion [TS]

  of this which was episode 193 title that [TS]

  was the escape zone it was when I first [TS]

  talked about the touch bar MacBook Pros [TS]

  like right after they were announced and [TS]

  the first thing that I think occurred to [TS]

  anybody including us who looked at the [TS]

  touch bar MacBook Pro is okay so they've [TS]

  got a little screen on top of the [TS]

  keyboard it seems kind of like a [TS]

  half-measure [TS]

  do we think that that eventually the [TS]

  whole keyboard will be screen and we had [TS]

  like ass long conversation about it so [TS]

  go back to that episode if you want to [TS]

  hear because I don't think we're gonna [TS]

  repeat it here we took we did all set [TS]

  all the things you're gonna expect us to [TS]

  say about the pluses and minuses of [TS]

  having anything that's that's entirely a [TS]

  screen to type on and then this story is [TS]

  like any other Apple patent story the [TS]

  idea of having an entirely screen [TS]

  keyboard is obvious to anybody including [TS]

  Apple and you mean they did it on their [TS]

  iOS devices it's they put a screen on [TS]

  the keyboard surely they had [TS]

  investigated that and like anything that [TS]

  Apple does they investigated and they [TS]

  patented especially the obvious idea is [TS]

  because that's how our stupid patent [TS]

  system works so as with all patent [TS]

  things this means nothing about any [TS]

  product that iple actually ship but it's [TS]

  a thing that's been in everybody's mind [TS]

  I think people do want to touch screens [TS]

  on their computers I think people don't [TS]

  like [TS]

  some people don't like the keyboards as [TS]

  they exist now and we expect them to [TS]

  change I don't expect them to change in [TS]

  this direction but this is just you know [TS]

  time delay to confirmation that yes of [TS]

  course Apple has considered having the [TS]

  whole keyboard be a screen or having the [TS]

  whole thing to be a convertible snap [TS]

  apart thing with like an iPad and a [TS]

  screen thing or whatever but until we [TS]

  hear more we'll just continue assuming [TS]

  that this is a thing they investigated [TS]

  but are not going to produce but I think [TS]

  they could sell something like this not [TS]

  maybe as a Mac laptop maybe as an iOS [TS]

  thing but it doesn't seem imminent to me [TS]

  let's let's start [TS]

  baby steps let's fix the mechanical [TS]

  keyboard reliability problems first and [TS]

  then after that maybe fix the Marco [TS]

  satisfaction index on the mechanical [TS]

  keyboard that is not reliable [TS]

  damn straight well that topic I have to [TS]

  say I've been using my 2017 MacBook Pro [TS]

  at work with the keyboard has not yet [TS]

  broken because I rarely use the keyboard [TS]

  so I'm not using a lot but it's not [TS]

  you're broken and I'm mostly a convert [TS]

  to the key switches I still hate the [TS]

  touch bar mostly because of the Escape [TS]

  key which I want to be real key but I [TS]

  like the actual keyboard obviously the [TS]

  reliability part is still an issue no I [TS]

  agree with you John that that I mean now [TS]

  granted I've not used to touch bar Mac [TS]

  but um but just the key the key switches [TS]

  and whatnot I adore them and I have [TS]

  spent years talking about how much the [TS]

  magic keyboards are my favorite [TS]

  keyboards ever and in the last six [TS]

  months to a year I have decided that no [TS]

  my favorite keyboard ever if you can put [TS]

  a humongous asterisk on the end is the [TS]

  is the one that's in the modern MacBook [TS]

  Pros and MacBooks [TS]

  but that humongous asterisk is when it's [TS]

  working and as much as I want to say [TS]

  that Marcos being a big baby and that [TS]

  that really it's not a problem no really [TS]

  it is a problem like I never needed to [TS]

  buy compressed air in 10 years but as [TS]

  I've mentioned several times I had to [TS]

  probably compressed air to get some like [TS]

  microscopic dust out of my macbook [TS]

  keyboard but man when it's wet it's like [TS]

  my car isn't it like when it's working [TS]

  gosh I love that thing [TS]

  but then occasionally it fails me it [TS]

  makes me sad but you know you don't love [TS]

  the arrow keys though like I mean [TS]

  there's still I have I have a general [TS]

  hatred for laptop keyboards but [TS]

  specifically the arrow keys it's grim I [TS]

  don't like the arrow keys but the [TS]

  don't drive me as nuts as I think they [TS]

  drive you and I think some of that is [TS]

  because I've been I've been using them [TS]

  using the inverted T for less well no is [TS]

  that really true because my PC stuff [TS]

  always had an inverted T I think I don't [TS]

  know the fact that you could feel for [TS]

  because you could feel for the gap so [TS]

  that the one the one is that we talked [TS]

  about the feeling for it but the other [TS]

  thing I find that surprised me using the [TS]

  keyboard now for a long time besides not [TS]

  being able to feel down there to find [TS]

  where the edges are is that the up and [TS]

  down arrow keys which it's the same [TS]

  essentially the same logical arrangement [TS]

  has always been a half size up and half [TS]

  sizes down crammed into a single key [TS]

  space I find it more difficult to [TS]

  differentiate and find and select like [TS]

  the OP versus the down and I don't [TS]

  understand why maybe it's because the [TS]

  travel is less maybe because there's [TS]

  less of an indent or a space between [TS]

  them but I find myself I've found the [TS]

  correct key with my finger I'm not [TS]

  looking but I found the correct key the [TS]

  up/down key with my finger and I have to [TS]

  like carefully navigate which one of the [TS]

  things I want to hit anyway all that as [TS]

  I've said for years and years would be [TS]

  solved if they just put an actual full [TS]

  sized inverted T and broke the symmetry [TS]

  of the outline of the keyboard but not [TS]

  holding my breath on that yeah TIFF are [TS]

  you using any sort of mobile rig or [TS]

  mobile computer computer or are you on [TS]

  iPads when you're running around I'm on [TS]

  iPads when I'm running around but I want [TS]

  to say something about this virtual the [TS]

  all screen keyboard patent thing so like [TS]

  Apple does a lot of different patents [TS]

  for everything right so it's not like [TS]

  super important that they did this one [TS]

  because they're doing weird patents all [TS]

  the time for different things that they [TS]

  think of which is as they should a smart [TS]

  business move but what if I didn't read [TS]

  this article because I'm you know I'm [TS]

  not allowed to prepare for the show [TS]

  you're filling the marco role I asked [TS]

  him and he was like no no yeah nothing [TS]

  to read it's fine but so I use a kind of [TS]

  like a skin on the top of my keyboard [TS]

  now which has photoshop shortcuts on it [TS]

  and generally the shortcuts that I use [TS]

  the most I don't need a keyboard for but [TS]

  the ones that are kind of more obscure I [TS]

  do use it and it's nice to have that [TS]

  reference without having to look up a [TS]

  guide online to find out what is the [TS]

  shortcut for a certain obscure tool that [TS]

  I'm just not used to using that I want [TS]

  to try out but a virtual keyboard kind [TS]

  of oh not virtual because it's you know [TS]

  there is a physical pad [TS]

  there but it would be kind of an all [TS]

  screen digital keyboard and that like [TS]

  you can kind of have those layouts [TS]

  built-in in the software you know you [TS]

  could just like swap them in and out I [TS]

  think that would be kind of cool [TS]

  wouldn't it app to tiff yeah I mean if [TS]

  you remember what episode 193 but that's [TS]

  kind of what we talked about like it was [TS]

  the original pitch for our Steve Jobs up [TS]

  on the iPhone it's like okay well you [TS]

  got a keyboard on your thing but then [TS]

  like the keyboard is what the keyboard [TS]

  is but what if you could change the [TS]

  keyboard based on the application you're [TS]

  using like if you just make this the [TS]

  entire front of the phone is screen it's [TS]

  you know it's much more configurable [TS]

  they demoed that in the original iPhones [TS]

  like look when we when we ask you to [TS]

  enter numbers we'll just change the [TS]

  whole keyboard to a numpad and when [TS]

  you're entering just letters we could [TS]

  save room and not have and we have like [TS]

  a key to toggle you know we all know [TS]

  this from using iOS we're like we don't [TS]

  have to have the numbers above the [TS]

  letters all the time taking up more room [TS]

  on them what was then the very small [TS]

  iPhone screen we can just not have a [TS]

  number at all and then you want to type [TS]

  numbers hit this little thing in the [TS]

  corner and then the whole keyboard [TS]

  changes the numbers that's like the most [TS]

  simple form of that someone you're [TS]

  talking about is like like when you have [TS]

  a screen you could put anything you want [TS]

  there it doesn't even have to look [TS]

  anything like a keyboard it could be [TS]

  like this pallet of buttons that you can [TS]

  hit to do Photoshop e-type things like [TS]

  it keep the layout of a standard [TS]

  keyboard because that's the way people [TS]

  learn and are used to typing right [TS]

  because like old people write old people [TS]

  but like you know in general like that's [TS]

  where the its laid out that way for a [TS]

  reason I guess I don't know I [TS]

  CGP grey talking about some sort of [TS]

  weirdo keyboard that he uses but I mean [TS]

  again yes why I mean looking at my [TS]

  keyboard right now with this floppy skin [TS]

  on it that gets a whole bunch of crud [TS]

  underneath and it just it's all pasty I [TS]

  don't know it's it's not a pretty [TS]

  solution I mean everything's laid out [TS]

  similar but it has the shortcuts written [TS]

  on top of them and it would be really [TS]

  nice to kind of have that transparency [TS]

  layer be in a digital format instead and [TS]

  then be able to switch back to see a [TS]

  normal keyboard instead of revealing the [TS]

  crud covered keys that now live [TS]

  underneath this floppy skin that's like [TS]

  the transitional model because people [TS]

  who have been using a physical keyboard [TS]

  to use Photoshop for a long time have [TS]

  muscle memory for where the key [TS]

  shortcuts are for [TS]

  the commonly used ones for example right [TS]

  and so if you oh yeah the common ones [TS]

  but that I'm talking about like you know [TS]

  some of the obscure stuff yeah no but [TS]

  I'm saying I'm saying like that's that's [TS]

  the reason why you display a virtual [TS]

  keyboard on the screen instead of [TS]

  something you know [TS]

  more sort of like thinking outside the [TS]

  box that because you're not limited by a [TS]

  physical keyboard anymore you can [TS]

  display anything you want down there it [TS]

  could be like a custom palette made for [TS]

  manipulating Photoshop really quickly [TS]

  but because people are coming from a [TS]

  world where they're using Photoshop on [TS]

  PCs and things with regular keyboards [TS]

  they would probably want a layout that [TS]

  mimics a physical keyboard only with [TS]

  like you said with the overlay on [TS]

  forever but eventually I'd have to think [TS]

  that all of us would die out and I'd be [TS]

  like well why am i why am i showing you [TS]

  a picture of a physical keyboard down [TS]

  there when what you really want is a you [TS]

  know a custom control layout made [TS]

  specifically for using photoshop most [TS]

  efficiently perhaps that you could even [TS]

  rearrange themselves just becomes [TS]

  another it just becomes another piece of [TS]

  software in the same way they'll let you [TS]

  rearrange all like your sidebars and [TS]

  your layers palette and all that other [TS]

  stuff and dock things to each other and [TS]

  customize in that way the bottom the the [TS]

  screen that is horizontal is just [TS]

  another version of the screen that is [TS]

  vertical and you should be able to lay [TS]

  it out the same way even to the point [TS]

  where that could be the surface that [TS]

  you're drawing with your pencil instead [TS]

  of drawing on your vertical screen [TS]

  laptop which would never work we're just [TS]

  talking about the multi pad lifestyle [TS]

  here right essentially you just put two [TS]

  iPads next to each other and like you [TS]

  know communicate didn't they have like a [TS]

  shuffleboard app that you could like [TS]

  string them all up and you get throw [TS]

  them throw the pucks to right across [TS]

  Lincoln for iPhones anymore when I set [TS]

  that up once it was pretty sweet but [TS]

  yeah that's basically what this is right [TS]

  but in a laptop yeah well that doesn't [TS]

  say I'm it's just a pattern right but [TS]

  you know they they try to cover all [TS]

  their bases like you know could be a [TS]

  tablet it could be a personal convey [TS]

  their all vague about it right that's [TS]

  the thing with patents but there's lots [TS]

  of possibilities here of you know [TS]

  applying second-screen [TS]

  to a thing that Apple makes whether it's [TS]

  an iPad with a second screen that snaps [TS]

  on to it or a laptop thing or you know [TS]

  both and you can snap it onto either one [TS]

  with little magnets or something or they [TS]

  just never do anything like this and you [TS]

  know we'll see yeah I can get excited [TS]

  get behind this I can get excited about [TS]

  it that sounds kind of fun so so you [TS]

  don't have it you don't have a hang-ups [TS]

  about typing on it because like say it [TS]

  was on like a laptop or something like [TS]

  the reason people usually buy physical [TS]

  keyboards for their iPads this two [TS]

  reasons one is [TS]

  I want to have something they can type [TS]

  on it's not a screen but the second one [TS]

  I feel like people forget is having a [TS]

  separate keyboard and iPad frees up the [TS]

  entire iPad screen for screen purposes [TS]

  yeah I'm seeing the benefit and having [TS]

  the screen the double screen space so if [TS]

  you're doing any kind of even if you're [TS]

  drawing or typing or doing anything the [TS]

  screen space in front of you is precious [TS]

  and you don't want to take half that up [TS]

  with some keyboard that you're typing on [TS]

  but no I type a lot of my phone I don't [TS]

  think really matters anymore is that [TS]

  working for you [TS]

  seriously yes I mean I don't type a lot [TS]

  it is so bad for me [TS]

  but I don't type a lot I mean I answer [TS]

  some emails and even long emails I sit [TS]

  and I type them out on my phone because [TS]

  it's easier being mobile with it then [TS]

  coming back and sitting at my computer I [TS]

  guess it's a KC problem that's things [TS]

  we've discussed in the past of how some [TS]

  people really don't like typing on glass [TS]

  but a whole generation of people growing [TS]

  up typing on glass and they're not gonna [TS]

  have the same hang-ups about it that [TS]

  some of us do I feel fine I feel more [TS]

  fine about young-at-heart I am I'm the [TS]

  youngest right here right now so I mean [TS]

  come on I like I like a couple of months [TS]

  or something yeah I'm millennial man I [TS]

  like to think about it I don't like to [TS]

  think about people born in the 80s [TS]

  grouse love you too Johnny oh goodness [TS]

  no I don't know about this this patent I [TS]

  mean I'd try anything and just like you [TS]

  guys the idea of having another screen [TS]

  that's modifiable to suit to suit your [TS]

  needs or suit the needs of what's going [TS]

  on right then does sound good I never [TS]

  really played was it the 3ds that had [TS]

  the the to screen setup is that right no [TS]

  yes [TS]

  so does okay I never really played one [TS]

  of those for more than like two minutes [TS]

  and it seemed kind of silly in the two [TS]

  minutes I played it but I'm sure that [TS]

  there were plenty of games where it [TS]

  actually made a lot of sense I don't [TS]

  know how to try it I'm not great at [TS]

  typing on glass I'm better on a [TS]

  full-size iPad which is funny because I [TS]

  don't have a full-size iPad in the house [TS]

  but I mean I'd give it a shot but man I [TS]

  can't imagine I would want especially [TS]

  for a full on computer I I would enjoy [TS]

  having glass as my only input mechanism [TS]

  what was that projection keyboard from [TS]

  like Microsoft that never worked there [TS]

  was some sharper image I think I know [TS]

  she's thinking into a Microsoft Store [TS]

  when [TS]

  had Adam was young enough to be strapped [TS]

  to me you know like like in a little [TS]

  harness thing that you wear when you [TS]

  wear your babies and we were in a [TS]

  Microsoft Store typing on some sort of [TS]

  like projected keyboard yeah they still [TS]

  make those that that's that I feel like [TS]

  is even worse than the screen ones [TS]

  because then never quite worked as well [TS]

  as even a screen keyboard would well [TS]

  yeah and you couldn't see it too well [TS]

  either it wasn't it wasn't great oh yeah [TS]

  yeah all right so before we do ask ATP [TS]

  we're going to do a brief ask TI FF and [TS]

  I'm assuming that this was mostly John's [TS]

  work that I'm now taking credit for but [TS]

  I will MC and let John take over as soon [TS]

  as he sees it necessary TIFF what's your [TS]

  favorite tech product right now these [TS]

  questions I mean come on dudes tech [TS]

  podcasts all right my favorite tech [TS]

  product right now I would have to say is [TS]

  the switch because I've been playing it [TS]

  constantly so go switch you playing yet [TS]

  handheld there on the TV mostly TV with [TS]

  the pro controller yep the proper way [TS]

  but I put stickers on the pro [TS]

  controllers oh well this the dog sticker [TS]

  is on the main the little joy con set a [TS]

  holder thing yeah that make when it [TS]

  actually looks like a little dog but on [TS]

  the back of all of our pro controllers [TS]

  we each have kind of like our own [TS]

  sticker so each family member has their [TS]

  own controller you know I do still love [TS]

  my switch but I almost I feel like I [TS]

  never have time to play it and the part [TS]

  of the problem I have with the switch is [TS]

  that I've only made it I would guess [TS]

  like a quarter of the way through Zelda [TS]

  you despite having had it for months now [TS]

  oh my god and I feel like it's so hard [TS]

  and maybe this is maybe it's me but it's [TS]

  hard for me to pick it up play it for [TS]

  like 10 or 15 minutes put it back down [TS]

  and then remember what the crap I was [TS]

  working on the next day when I pick it [TS]

  up again like it Zelda is not the kind [TS]

  of game that you just pick up and play [TS]

  for 10 or 15 minutes and put down it [TS]

  totally is you just haven't here's the [TS]

  thing it is that type of game especially [TS]

  this Elders of having but the problem is [TS]

  that you have not because you don't do [TS]

  any you don't have to do anything it's [TS]

  so that's fair yeah but the thing is [TS]

  like you haven't the game hasn't grabbed [TS]

  you like that's the problem like visit [TS]

  if the game grabbed you the way it works [TS]

  like when you [TS]

  you know showing that you can dip into [TS]

  it is yeah you only have 15 minutes so [TS]

  you dip into it and do a thing but if [TS]

  the game has actually grabbed you have [TS]

  really gotten your attention all the [TS]

  while you're not playing you're thinking [TS]

  about here's what I'm doing the next [TS]

  time I play I'm gonna go over here I'm [TS]

  gonna do this thing in the name of that [TS]

  thing maybe I think about it like you're [TS]

  thinking about it you're thinking about [TS]

  this place this virtual place mm-hmm you [TS]

  know even when you're not there even if [TS]

  you don't get grabbed in that way when [TS]

  you come back and we'll be like okay [TS]

  reboot everything where the hell was I [TS]

  in this game because you haven't been [TS]

  thinking about it since then so it's not [TS]

  I don't think it's a the game doesn't [TS]

  allow you to play in short spurts it's [TS]

  just that it hasn't really got its hooks [TS]

  into you it's just not connecting with [TS]

  you or whatever yeah when I was very [TS]

  into Odyssey I could sit down and play [TS]

  Odyssey for like 10 minutes get one moon [TS]

  and then shut it off you know like I [TS]

  would be like oh I'm just gonna do this [TS]

  real quick cuz and the same thing with [TS]

  Zelda too you could just play a quick [TS]

  little temple and be like alright it's [TS]

  gonna be this simple and then I'm just [TS]

  gonna shut it off and I'm gonna go do [TS]

  something else yeah and maybe that's [TS]

  part of the problem in and now I'm [TS]

  showing my inability to play games but I [TS]

  feel like I got all of the temples that [TS]

  were easily accessible so like none of [TS]

  this so I did you try this please like I [TS]

  can't allow this to continue [TS]

  sorry thank you I went through the all [TS]

  the shrines you must now do ten push-ups [TS]

  no I I went to all in I do too I went to [TS]

  all the shrines that that were easily [TS]

  accessible and now all that remains that [TS]

  I can see anyway are like in the super [TS]

  hot lava area or like the super cold [TS]

  Tundra area oh all the shrines they were [TS]

  easily accessible can you put a number [TS]

  on that for us please [TS]

  I honestly don't remember I can you know [TS]

  my gosh there's so many you can't even [TS]

  find them all that's probably the thing [TS]

  is I'm not exploring the right areas [TS]

  hold on let me see if my switches even [TS]

  sure you know how to do shrines at all [TS]

  you know I'm just don't reassurance like [TS]

  that's the thing about the Zelda like it [TS]

  you know just like maybe you just want [TS]

  to get that you're the best horse you [TS]

  can get right you could spend hours just [TS]

  fine oh you you got to get a lot of you [TS]

  got to get a lot of donut to get the [TS]

  best horse you can get let me tell you [TS]

  you know one thing that is really nice [TS]

  that I like about having my macbook is I [TS]

  just ripped the power charger cable II [TS]

  thing out of my macbook slammed it into [TS]

  the switch and unfortunately it's like [TS]

  any mod [TS]

  an iOS device in that it needs to be at [TS]

  least slightly charged even if it's [TS]

  hooked up to power to turn it on but [TS]

  just grabbing my computer's power cord [TS]

  and putting it into my video game [TS]

  systems power cord that's pretty cool [TS]

  wait you just did that right now yeah [TS]

  wait why is the switch in your own [TS]

  wait why is the switch in your own [TS]

  profess because it's I never play it on [TS]

  the TV sorry guys and to be honest I [TS]

  never really played at all even though I [TS]

  do enjoy it it's not that I enjoy it [TS]

  really any less I just never have to [TS]

  have a chance that's why you're not [TS]

  playing because it's not in like the hub [TS]

  of the house it's not in the enjoyment [TS]

  Center he's just not that into it as [TS]

  they like one of the great things about [TS]

  the switch you know yeah especially for [TS]

  for you know strug gaming sessions is [TS]

  that of all the gaming things I have [TS]

  ever known [TS]

  it is the fastest from powering on to [TS]

  picking up where you left off now right [TS]

  is not it's not an MMO or whatever but [TS]

  you turn that thing back on and you are [TS]

  the exact millisecond you were in Zelda [TS]

  yeah that's no boot screen no spinners [TS]

  no cursors no you know no anything [TS]

  I wish destiny did that obviously you [TS]

  can't because of online stuff but that [TS]

  makes it so easy to just dip in run do a [TS]

  thing grab a thing fight a person put it [TS]

  back to sleep and then just pick up [TS]

  right where you left off you can even be [TS]

  a total monster and play half of a mario [TS]

  kart race and then unpause it and then [TS]

  come back and pick it up although I [TS]

  would that's that's the thing about that [TS]

  I do it sometimes without those [TS]

  adventure and all those Odyssey now when [TS]

  you're having a long session and you [TS]

  think you're doing well sometimes you [TS]

  think I should take a break now because [TS]

  I'm closer I'm approaching my record and [TS]

  if I take a break I will reset all the [TS]

  goodness and I'll come back to this [TS]

  later when I'm you know what I haven't [TS]

  like burned through my attention or [TS]

  whatever on the other hand you might [TS]

  come back to it and you're not in the [TS]

  groove anymore so knowing when it's a [TS]

  smart time to take a break and how long [TS]

  that break should be John you have to [TS]

  know when to hold them and know and [TS]

  totally true I found with Aalto that it [TS]

  is useful to take a break but it cannot [TS]

  be a very long way because I don't want [TS]

  to get out of the flow but sometimes I [TS]

  do want to release whatever tension I [TS]

  feel like is building up also my problem [TS]

  with all Alto and house Odyssey and [TS]

  adventure is that eventually when you [TS]

  good your games start lasting a really [TS]

  long time and it's like do I have 45 [TS]

  minutes to play Alto [TS]

  maybe not 45 minutes just sit there and [TS]

  do nothing that sounds I'm amazing I'm [TS]

  doing nothing I'm going downhill you [TS]

  know what I mean I don't mean that I [TS]

  don't mean that in a disparaging way I'm [TS]

  just saying like to just have 45 minutes [TS]

  I go I go that way really fast something [TS]

  gets in my way I turn an 80s reference [TS]

  for you 90s kids yeah I got nothing I [TS]

  know I'm playing Marco so I don't get it [TS]

  you're doing what you're doing great [TS]

  thanks a favorite tectonics the switch [TS]

  what tech thing is TIFF most looking [TS]

  forward to in 2018 I'm looking forward [TS]

  to getting Marcos computer after he's [TS]

  done that's good all right yeah after [TS]

  he's done or you mean all right so I [TS]

  think more accurately be after he [TS]

  decides to buy the Mac Pro hmm you're [TS]

  gonna take his computer and then when he [TS]

  returns the Mac Pro you're not giving it [TS]

  back right [TS]

  I am definitely buying the Mac Pro we [TS]

  know we know computer man hey everyone [TS]

  this is like me definitely not buying [TS]

  the watch everyone knows you're buying a [TS]

  Mac Pro all right if you could change [TS]

  what I'm not asking this this is a yes [TS]

  no it's tech related the dating game [TS]

  yeah so this question did make Whoopie [TS]

  in the but you can change if you could [TS]

  change one tech related thing about [TS]

  Marco what would it be like this is [TS]

  safer because it's tech related we're [TS]

  not asking you to like critique him as [TS]

  his being one tech related thing about [TS]

  Marco what would it be if I could change [TS]

  one tech related thing about Marco what [TS]

  would it be it can be like a thing that [TS]

  he does with tech that you don't like a [TS]

  product that he has that you wish he [TS]

  didn't like anything anything tech [TS]

  related I wish he would play games a [TS]

  little bit more but then I would have [TS]

  less time to play game to player co-op [TS]

  games yeah yeah well we play dumb [TS]

  Digital Marco what was that one where [TS]

  you're under the bunker and we played it [TS]

  like back and forth Shadow Complex [TS]

  yeah Shadow Complex that was fun when we [TS]

  did that and we had [TS]

  and things you kind of you do you're [TS]

  kind of not co-op playing but like [TS]

  backseat driver playing okay now can ya [TS]

  over-the-shoulder playing with eachother [TS]

  stardew valley [TS]

  we're like when the one person is play [TS]

  the other person is advising yeah yeah [TS]

  we did that we did that for Odyssey two [TS]

  a little bit well it was more I advised [TS]

  Marco or laughed when he totally missed [TS]

  stuff like The Good Wife that I am but [TS]

  no that's tout is a terrible answer I [TS]

  don't know it's pretty good I mean [TS]

  that's tech related you wish he played [TS]

  games for I mean he's so supportive when [TS]

  it comes to getting technology stuff all [TS]

  set up for me or if I needed help with [TS]

  anything he doesn't get mad if I need [TS]

  extra help but I'm asking you to say the [TS]

  good things about him yeah he's great I [TS]

  don't know I am the best alright I'd [TS]

  take away that whatever he's using right [TS]

  now I would take that away from him he [TS]

  should not be allowed to have this it's [TS]

  freaking me out good just tell him to [TS]

  pass a different argument to the voice [TS]

  parameters of the command he's running [TS]

  he can pick a different voice he just [TS]

  keeps picking the default thread one [TS]

  which is boring yeah you should [TS]

  definitely pick the sexy Australian Siri [TS]

  voice because that one's pretty good [TS]

  alright and I would ask the next [TS]

  question but I have no idea what it [TS]

  means so go ahead John well I put that [TS]

  in there okay you don't say it's fine [TS]

  okay so you know how there there's so [TS]

  many different companies now that gather [TS]

  or collaborate a box that they send you [TS]

  and you can get like a a quarterly box [TS]

  or a weekly boxer of whatever things [TS]

  well pusheen the little grey internet [TS]

  cat and has a box and it's stupid [TS]

  expensive and it comes quarterly but it [TS]

  does look pretty cute so I've kind of [TS]

  been debating about it so what's in it [TS]

  I'm not i'm familiar with machine i'm [TS]

  not familiar with the box idea well it's [TS]

  just a whole bunch of merch like the [TS]

  best way to describe it in like the [TS]

  cheesiest way possible because it is [TS]

  it's just like here's some pusheen socks [TS]

  and a little vinyl figure and i don't [TS]

  know like a towel and a printed turban I [TS]

  don't know like there's like all kinds [TS]

  of weird stuff in there that you get [TS]

  and so it's like you don't get to pick [TS]

  so it's kind of like a surprise we're [TS]

  like I wonder what I'll get yeah it's [TS]

  like a curated collection of pusheen [TS]

  paraphernalia does the box cost more or [TS]

  less than the sum of the retail prices [TS]

  of things it contains [TS]

  well less that's usually the appeal of [TS]

  the whole box situation but they say you [TS]

  know it's $100 value for only 60 90 [TS]

  million or so since this is this is a [TS]

  question that you are asking about [TS]

  yourself my answer based on the the [TS]

  experience seeing my children have way [TS]

  too many possessions yeah is that you [TS]

  really it's not so much about whether [TS]

  the box will be exciting it's about what [TS]

  happens with the stuff that's in the box [TS]

  after because you will rapidly run out [TS]

  of places to display things no matter [TS]

  how cute they are Dan that's it that's [TS]

  the answer I needed so it's no no - the [TS]

  pusheen box I will just enjoy it on [TS]

  Instagram plus you got you got a whole [TS]

  new art room and all your gonna be [TS]

  funded with art junk so there's you [TS]

  playing boxes of stuff yeah enough to [TS]

  fill my art room it's it's a good idea [TS]

  not to invest in the proofing box thank [TS]

  you that really did help actually see [TS]

  this is the opposite of the advice Marco [TS]

  gives because with almost all things [TS]

  Marco's advice is oh yeah definitely [TS]

  buying well now Marco is free to get her [TS]

  one of those boxes for a special [TS]

  occasion because she wouldn't have [TS]

  bought it for herself but now here's a [TS]

  box but an ongoing commitment to [TS]

  continual boxes you around stuff oh no [TS]

  no I wasn't gonna commit to the whole [TS]

  like yearly box situation I was just [TS]

  thinking for spring you know like Easter [TS]

  Bunny situation treat yo'self you can [TS]

  get what you can get one box I feel like [TS]

  but be careful because one box don't [TS]

  know I don't see what I'm just gonna [TS]

  open it and then it's gonna be over so I [TS]

  might as well as watch a video of [TS]

  somebody opening it like you'd get the [TS]

  same thrill there you go now you'd be [TS]

  like every other you know seven-year-old [TS]

  kid who watches and disembodied hands [TS]

  silently silently unbox things on [TS]

  YouTube for hours and hours and making [TS]

  people millionaires yeah why not spread [TS]

  the wealth where do I figure where do I [TS]

  figure out how many shrines I have on [TS]

  the loading screen and upper right oh [TS]

  god I wasn't paying attention in the [TS]

  hood it was it was something like he was [TS]

  20 some shrines which I'm sure is where [TS]

  you go oh my god [TS]

  you're not a quarter you're a baby oh my [TS]

  goodness [TS]

  sorry I do have the elephant dude what [TS]

  is that called the divine beast yeah I [TS]

  just had to draw a whole bunch of those [TS]

  for Adam he kept requesting them for his [TS]

  lunchbox notes and I'm like look I need [TS]

  like two days to draw a divine beast kid [TS]

  like I can't whip that out in the [TS]

  morning in like 20 minutes [TS]

  don't tell me you you can't give away [TS]

  your off for free anymore yeah we're [TS]

  sponsored this week by Casper in the new [TS]

  wave mattress the wave is the most [TS]

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  thanks to Casper for sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  all right Jimmy bossy bossy Buffett [TS]

  Jimmy bow say Jimmy rights in maxout [TS]

  hearts our stamina I'm assuming this is [TS]

  a video game thing I'm assuming about [TS]

  Zelda is it not yeah this is actually [TS]

  relevant to my interests if I ever get [TS]

  back to this game so Marco Irv's does [TS]

  Marco cheesy Peas the insane Marco and [TS]

  John so TIFF and John what do you [TS]

  recommend let's start with TIFF I'm [TS]

  gonna go with stamina aka donut which [TS]

  Adam calls it donut but Marco insists [TS]

  that he came up with the name but it's [TS]

  really cute and we call it the donut I [TS]

  definitely think donut because the more [TS]

  stamina you have the more you can [TS]

  explore and then you can get hearts [TS]

  later [TS]

  so stamina is way more important to max [TS]

  out first I think this is a choice that [TS]

  people put on themselves like with these [TS]

  extremes here max out hearts or stamina [TS]

  so like long-term obviously you're gonna [TS]

  max out both right that's your you know [TS]

  if you just keep playing the game it's [TS]

  gonna happen people really want to know [TS]

  is early in the early game where should [TS]

  you put your points essentially and my [TS]

  experience I know there's a lot of [TS]

  people who say oh just put everything in [TS]

  to stand up but like breath of the wild [TS]

  is you're more likely to die in breath [TS]

  of the wild than you are and a lot of [TS]

  recent Zelda's because they took start [TS]

  you weak and because there's no sort of [TS]

  guided path through the game you can [TS]

  find yourself encountering enemies that [TS]

  want to kill you and so I don't feel [TS]

  like it's good advice to tell somebody [TS]

  just put everything into stamina if you [TS]

  want to do like like a recipe like a two [TS]

  to one ratio like two in stamina one in [TS]

  hearts two and stamina one of hearts [TS]

  just pick like a pattern like that that [TS]

  has some reasonable balance and go with [TS]

  it I do agree that if you have to wait [TS]

  one wait stamina more than you think you [TS]

  should wait hearts but I'm hesitant to [TS]

  tell people put everything into stamina [TS]

  because you will die alot and I feel [TS]

  like that is just as frustrating it's [TS]

  not being able to climb a hill but I'm [TS]

  super into climbing and also by the way [TS]

  you could you'll max out stamina long [TS]

  before you max out your heart so if you [TS]

  do this two to one ratio or any kind of [TS]

  thing that favor stamina you will max [TS]

  out your stamina and you'll feel sad [TS]

  you're like really that's all I can get [TS]

  yeah that's all you can get and then [TS]

  you'll just spend orbiting and then [TS]

  you'll get upset yes [TS]

  yeah I agree with John you are taking [TS]

  that in a much more you know delicate [TS]

  and poetic way but I this is my life [TS]

  dudas tavataan John is like well [TS]

  actually let me eloquently tell you [TS]

  exactly did not say well I actually [TS]

  defend myself but yes I agree with you [TS]

  John that you should do a little bit [TS]

  here a little bit there but more stamina [TS]

  is better so get a good recipe going [TS]

  Bryan Middleton writes what arcade games [TS]

  are each of you nostalgic for from your [TS]

  childhood is there one game that you [TS]

  would like to own and this time let's [TS]

  start with John and I actually have [TS]

  answers for this thank you very much but [TS]

  we'll start with John I was trying to [TS]

  think of this like so the one game I are [TS]

  gonna easier but like games nostalgia [TS]

  for there's so many I did spend a lot of [TS]

  time in arcades as a kid I have mine do [TS]

  you want to think about it uh yeah good [TS]

  I mean I'm probably not gonna pick one [TS]

  was this on top for about you but if [TS]

  you're you're you should be definitely a [TS]

  man so you go okay skeeball it's totally [TS]

  dark a game I know they said Arkady game [TS]

  in that video game yes they did the [TS]

  arcade even up video game totally people [TS]

  and I would love to own a skee-ball [TS]

  saying in my house that would be awesome [TS]

  that's what you're nice I'll check for [TS]

  from your childhood as well yeah I play [TS]

  skee-ball [TS]

  all the time as a kid every time when to [TS]

  arcades that's what I would play TIFF [TS]

  you should listen to this show called [TS]

  top 4 where the rules really don't mat [TS]

  and matter and the points and rankings [TS]

  are all made up because that was a very [TS]

  top four answer to that I know top four [TS]

  arcade games no we already know my top [TS]

  one so yeah I would you do top four [TS]

  video games then you don't have we [TS]

  already did that the first episode man [TS]

  but you have to revisit it because now [TS]

  has been so many new games come out I [TS]

  know yeah we have to do it top four [TS]

  mistakes you but you hadn't even played [TS]

  star do at that point you end play [TS]

  mariotta see I know and I made the big [TS]

  mistake of not putting journey on there [TS]

  so it's all coming back to me now now I [TS]

  have blocked it out for me these these [TS]

  answers are truly and utterly terrible [TS]

  but I don't care because they're my [TS]

  answers [TS]

  what would I love to have we actually do [TS]

  have a pinball machine in the house but [TS]

  but it's true I've seen it it is it is [TS]

  old it's older than I am [TS]

  probably not older than John heyo but [TS]

  anyway I would love to have either [TS]

  Street Fighter 2 which is actually an [TS]

  okay answer or cruisin USA which is a [TS]

  truly an utterly terrible game that I [TS]

  loved when I was a kid [TS]

  see also tropic no not Tropic Thunder [TS]

  that's the movie isn't it it was a Hydra [TS]

  thunder or something like that which was [TS]

  basically cruisin USA but boats either [TS]

  one of those I think would be tremendous [TS]

  and I don't know why like Street Fighter [TS]

  yeah you can make you can make a pretty [TS]

  decent argument I would imagine that [TS]

  that was actually a good arcade game [TS]

  cruisin USA and and I refer got was a [TS]

  call Hydra Thunder both really not good [TS]

  games but oh man I spent so many so many [TS]

  hours playing those in the arcades and [TS]

  like wasn't by arcades I mean like in a [TS]

  Fuddruckers or something like that but [TS]

  God they were fun yeah but it's been a [TS]

  long time in arcades so much so that I [TS]

  think one of my first memory memories is [TS]

  learning that five times four is 20 from [TS]

  putting a $5 bill into learning [TS]

  multiplication based on bills that you [TS]

  put into the machine that would give you [TS]

  quarters right that's that's how young [TS]

  it was like its before multiplication [TS]

  tables and also the other factor and [TS]

  that comes into this is that arcades [TS]

  probably still like this I think but [TS]

  even when I was a kid like games come [TS]

  into an arcade right and I don't really [TS]

  leave so when they got the space [TS]

  invaders from you yeah probably yeah [TS]

  probably before I was probably before I [TS]

  was even born with space matters before [TS]

  I was old enough to play space invaders [TS]

  someone got a Space Invaders machine it [TS]

  would just be there and it would stay [TS]

  there and then they would get pac-man [TS]

  I'm gonna get miss pac-man Galaga a [TS]

  centipede [TS]

  like just you know all the different [TS]

  things and it's kind of like this like [TS]

  layers of sediment like lower down you [TS]

  go the older of the games getting so [TS]

  they never left so I played all these [TS]

  games some games that were before my [TS]

  time at the same time like afterburner [TS]

  would come out and it was the big [TS]

  50-cent machine and the thing moved and [TS]

  so on and so forth but still pac-man was [TS]

  sitting right there Space Invaders [TS]

  Missile Command was still there Missile [TS]

  Command compared to afterburner it was [TS]

  like but in the same arcade so I had [TS]

  this huge spread of things in a [TS]

  nostalgic Park going all the way from [TS]

  you know [TS]

  things like centipede and a millipede [TS]

  impact - duffle got all the way up to [TS]

  the quote-unquote fancy new games like [TS]

  Hydra Thunder or afterburn and stuff [TS]

  like that so I can't if I had to pick [TS]

  one I would probably say gauntlet the [TS]

  original because I think that was it we [TS]

  I think it had the most fun playing that [TS]

  because it was four-person sort of side [TS]

  by side in person which was called was [TS]

  the first game in my arcade anyway that [TS]

  did this that was a novel experience [TS]

  versus you just standing there fighting [TS]

  against yourself for the high scores or [TS]

  whatever so gauntlet is my most [TS]

  nostalgic now which game would I like to [TS]

  own none of them because arcade machines [TS]

  are huge [TS]

  just remain that is true and pinball [TS]

  machines are both huge and weigh on I [TS]

  cannot even begin to describe to you how [TS]

  heavy that pinball machine is it is [TS]

  preposterous no John why why in your [TS]

  fantasies do you always think about [TS]

  putting like if someone asks you well [TS]

  what would you pick to put in your house [TS]

  like a arcade game or something and then [TS]

  your fantasy you're squeezing this [TS]

  fantasy object into your real house [TS]

  because I respect the parameters of the [TS]

  problem they didn't say also you get you [TS]

  get a unlimited money to make a giant [TS]

  house if I had the giant house surely I [TS]

  would have a full arcade and that it [TS]

  wouldn't have to pick a game I would [TS]

  have all the games well see then you [TS]

  could say things like that because I [TS]

  don't assume that it means like okay [TS]

  actually put these things in your house [TS]

  because I feel like if you would want [TS]

  that thing it would already be in your [TS]

  house so much would you like to own some [TS]

  people might some people might have an [TS]

  answer like some people might say look [TS]

  I'm you know I was really into the Star [TS]

  Wars the vector Star Wars game and I [TS]

  would love to have one of those and ask [TS]

  people do they buy them but they buy [TS]

  that one game because they have room for [TS]

  one and make room for one game in there [TS]

  otherwise normal house I'm just saying [TS]

  like there is no game that I want enough [TS]

  to make room for it in my otherwise [TS]

  normal house yeah but like I couldn't [TS]

  put a skee-ball game in my house but I'm [TS]

  so like that's what I would want my [TS]

  house you totally good no you didn't you [TS]

  have an art room if you if you cared as [TS]

  much about skee-ball as you did about [TS]

  art the art room is outside of the house [TS]

  whatever the whole point is if you were [TS]

  into ski ball instead of art this is my [TS]

  skee-ball memories they have some some [TS]

  private time gonna go flexible and I did [TS]

  enjoy skee-ball by the way I like yeah [TS]

  my landlord goes and ask me why I'm [TS]

  renting the space and I'm like well I am [TS]

  an avid skee-ball player and I just [TS]

  don't [TS]

  I'm gonna begin the skee-ball Olympics I [TS]

  need to train you I bet you there is I [TS]

  bet you there is totally professional [TS]

  ski ballplayers oh yeah no I'm I've [TS]

  played a lot of that I do have nostalgia [TS]

  whisky ball ski balls so fun I'm [TS]

  terrible at it I am truly not really [TS]

  terrible this year all right so here's a [TS]

  question - two questions two parts of [TS]

  this alright so the skee-ball angle is [TS]

  if you had a skee-ball machine in your [TS]

  house would it be important to you that [TS]

  it gives tickets yes and I would have a [TS]

  basket of things that you could win with [TS]

  the tickets all right now if you have an [TS]

  arcade game in your house would you make [TS]

  it take quarters yes because then you [TS]

  would use the quarters for fun stuff [TS]

  later on our pinball machine does not [TS]

  own a quarter so that mean it has the [TS]

  slot for it that's all part of the [TS]

  ceremony yeah I feel like that it's like [TS]

  restricting it and some like weird kind [TS]

  of not important way because you're in [TS]

  your house you can make like a little [TS]

  like a little cardboard thing with it [TS]

  with an NFC or QR code on and you'd hold [TS]

  it in front of the game I like the idea [TS]

  of having to go to the bank and get a [TS]

  roll of quarters to play a game in your [TS]

  own home know what you need to have we [TS]

  need to have is a token machine so [TS]

  that's what building a little arm it [TS]

  tokens that you can only spend in the [TS]

  arm in arcade yes custom torment arcade [TS]

  I can imagine [TS]

  Adam or mints arcade there you go we're [TS]

  building this digital Marco write that [TS]

  down and the good ideas list please done [TS]

  so you pay the miners with money they [TS]

  can only spend at the company store see [TS]

  the final ask ATP question which TIF is [TS]

  probably the most equipped to answer [TS]

  Simon [TS]

  handler asks what are some good [TS]

  resources blogs books people to follow [TS]

  etcetera for photography beginners not [TS]

  really gear wise more about learning the [TS]

  craft so I've read this and I was [TS]

  thinking at first thought I was thinking [TS]

  of like what the pretty much the one [TS]

  photographer that I follow and that's [TS]

  Jamie back and she has been living in [TS]

  Provence for the past year and doing a [TS]

  lot of still life photography and [TS]

  actually showing her techniques with [TS]

  using film [TS]

  Digital and it's just been really [TS]

  fascinating to watch so she's a really [TS]

  great one to check out but it's very [TS]

  personal what you want to see as to [TS]

  learn for technique and craft on what [TS]

  type of photographer you want it's a lot [TS]

  like art right like you find a style [TS]

  that you're very into or an artist that [TS]

  you're very into and I think a great [TS]

  resource for that right now is Instagram [TS]

  and if you find one photographer or one [TS]

  I'm just gonna say artist it doesn't [TS]

  matter it translates both ways so you [TS]

  find a photographer on there that you [TS]

  really like and you can see who they [TS]

  follow or who follows them and [TS]

  especially in the Explorer tab and then [TS]

  it kind of rolls into finding other [TS]

  photographers that are interesting to [TS]

  you whether it's landscape or it's [TS]

  portraits or its various different [TS]

  styles the way they shoot texture the [TS]

  way they shoot light and I think if you [TS]

  start following that and you start [TS]

  looking at a lot of pictures and a lot [TS]

  of people's work it can kind of open up [TS]

  your eye to find a style that you like [TS]

  and at first when you're practicing it [TS]

  is not a problem to mimic someone else's [TS]

  work obviously give credit don't charge [TS]

  for it don't try and sell it but being [TS]

  it for you as a learning experience I [TS]

  think that that is a fantastic way to [TS]

  open up your creativity and then you can [TS]

  move on from there [TS]

  but I really I've been loving Instagram [TS]

  for following artists and seeing the way [TS]

  that they do different techniques and [TS]

  then that kind of it snowballs into the [TS]

  next person that I follow and then they [TS]

  follow other people that are similar but [TS]

  slightly different and you kind of can [TS]

  see how someone's art or photography [TS]

  evolves through the through even their [TS]

  own personal feed and it's been really [TS]

  valuable to kind of immersing yourself [TS]

  in all of that and it's that's what I [TS]

  would definitely suggest so Instagram [TS]

  yeah I would agree with that I still [TS]

  love Instagram and even though it's [TS]

  owned by Facebook and Facebook is [TS]

  getting ever more creepy with each [TS]

  passing moment I adore Instagram I look [TS]

  at Instagram a lot somebody that I a [TS]

  photographer that I admire quite a bit [TS]

  on Instagram is Aaron Brooks whose user [TS]

  name on Instagram is Aaron [TS]

  our Brookes she has two young daughters [TS]

  and most of her shots of are of her or [TS]

  of her kids or her in her kids and I [TS]

  would guess about 1/3 to 1/2 are like a [TS]

  big camera but half to two-thirds are [TS]

  just her iPhone and what's really great [TS]

  is as we record this she's done some [TS]

  Instagram stories where she'll take a [TS]

  shot that she shot on her iPhone and [TS]

  show how she like tweaks it and and [TS]

  edits it all on her iPhone in order to [TS]

  make it into the final product and I [TS]

  think she's a great follow I'm sure that [TS]

  there's a bunch of others that I'm not [TS]

  thinking of but she's really great also [TS]

  if you happen to do if you happen to [TS]

  like say a particular subject matter [TS]

  like cars for example I don't know if [TS]

  anyone on this you know show has ever [TS]

  talked about cars for any length of time [TS]

  but you know there's oftentimes a lot of [TS]

  really good car related accounts or [TS]

  maybe it's watches if that's your thing [TS]

  whatever the case may be [TS]

  oftentimes you'll find somebody that [TS]

  that likes not only photography but that [TS]

  thing and its really great to follow [TS]

  them because you can get a lot of the [TS]

  same kind of ideas about composition and [TS]

  and and depth of field and things like [TS]

  that just by looking at shots of cars [TS]

  you know they're pretty cars and they're [TS]

  pretty shots and it works out well one [TS]

  other photographer that I really like [TS]

  that I think people should check out if [TS]

  they like portraiture benoit pillai be [TS]

  en oh i t [TS]

  pai ll e i think that's how you [TS]

  pronounce his name but anyway he's an [TS]

  amazing portrait photographer and you [TS]

  should check out his work it's just [TS]

  stunning how do you feel about Marcos [TS]

  tasting cars which is another another [TS]

  way to come at it is when it's time for [TS]

  you to get your next car you're going to [TS]

  get an electric one how do you feel [TS]

  about your car like what's with the cars [TS]

  what's your take on the car situation in [TS]

  the Armand household oh my car is a [TS]

  dinosaur and I forget to fill it up with [TS]

  gas so I don't want to do that anymore [TS]

  and I definitely want Tesla for my next [TS]

  car big one or small one like you have a [TS]

  small one I want the small one the the [TS]

  the Roadster or the three the three the [TS]

  new one that's going to come out or has [TS]

  come [TS]

  or as big waiting lists to come out I [TS]

  don't know but I figure in two years [TS]

  when my lease is up we're good to go [TS]

  have you looked at the dashboard that [TS]

  Casey hates so much oh I don't care I'll [TS]

  figure it out I just don't want to fill [TS]

  my car with gas anymore so it would be [TS]

  easier just to have to Teslas right [TS]

  that's reasonable well it's out you used [TS]

  to be used to be taking your car because [TS]

  Marko had anxiety about the [TS]

  superchargers but now it seems like [TS]

  you're just taking a Tesla all the time [TS]

  and like I don't know why you use your [TS]

  car for oh I don't know what I use my [TS]

  car for either I like go down the block [TS]

  I Drive around the corner but I don't [TS]

  want to walk home at night and hang out [TS]

  with my friends huh so it seems like [TS]

  you've collectively gotten over the [TS]

  whole like whatever the limitations of [TS]

  electric car you felt them out to the [TS]

  point where now there's no reason for [TS]

  you to have a gas car and reserve just [TS]

  in case you say need to flee a an [TS]

  expanding mushroom cloud or something [TS]

  Wow yeah I'm abandoning it it's I mean [TS]

  the amount of times did I forget to fill [TS]

  it up with gas versus how many times the [TS]

  mushroom crab cloud might be here I'm [TS]

  gonna go with the Tesla well if you [TS]

  order the three now you might get about [TS]

  time your lease is up that's [TS]

  turning-point mark ooh we should order [TS]

  that on it shopping list [TS]

  Marco ad model three two shopping list [TS]

  do you want me to search the web for ad [TS]

  model three well-played robot Marco [TS]

  well-played are we done here I think [TS]

  we're done all right well thanks to our [TS]

  sponsors Casper fracture and Squarespace [TS]

  and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin as it was accidental oh it [TS]

  was accidental [TS]

  johnny research Margo and Casey wouldn't [TS]

  let him cuz it was accidental he was [TS]

  accidental you can find the show notes [TS]

  at ACS URL ISS so that's Casey less ma [TS]

  RC o AR m auntie Marco Arment SI r AC [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I started a new podcast called playing [TS]

  for fun with Mike Hurley and we talk [TS]

  only about the positive stuff about [TS]

  playing video games so it's like two [TS]

  besties playing video games and [TS]

  discussing them we don't have any [TS]

  negative talk no industry talk no just [TS]

  just very much the fun and the enjoyment [TS]

  that we get from the game and what we [TS]

  liked about it and yeah so that's where [TS]

  we're going we already had our first [TS]

  episode it was about Muriel Odyssey and [TS]

  you can check it out on relay fm so what [TS]

  is the publication schedule because [TS]

  shouldn't we be having the second [TS]

  episode by now [TS]

  yeah we're recording on Friday the next [TS]

  episode but we're going to be doing it [TS]

  once a month so that way we want well [TS]

  it's a great thing it's easy to invest [TS]

  in because it's not it won't bog down [TS]

  your playlist of podcasts because we [TS]

  need time to play the games all the way [TS]

  enough to discuss them and then that way [TS]

  it and it also doesn't become like a big [TS]

  burden for other people to add a new [TS]

  podcast to their list so it's nice and [TS]

  easy and yeah so it's a I like it once a [TS]

  month it feels good it comes up faster [TS]

  than you think because we're already [TS]

  recording again on Friday and I just [TS]

  finished the game we're gonna be talking [TS]

  about so well I don't think you need the [TS]

  name the time to play the games because [TS]

  you have such a backlog you could talk [TS]

  about games that you've played in the [TS]

  past for like a year before you even got [TS]

  to games that are going now because [TS]

  again it's not like you're talking about [TS]

  current events or something you could [TS]

  talk about games you played for seven [TS]

  years ago maybe maybe Mike hasn't played [TS]

  them and he's probably not well that's [TS]

  the thing it has to be both of us we've [TS]

  started a nice little list of things [TS]

  that we would possibly like too so we'd [TS]

  like to talk about in the future but a [TS]

  lot of them it's one of us has played it [TS]

  or one of us hasn't and then or one of [TS]

  us has tried it a little bit but it [TS]

  didn't get very into it so we do need [TS]

  the time because we do have other things [TS]

  to do besides play games all day you [TS]

  know even though we are mostly playing [TS]

  games for fun anyway in our free time [TS]

  because that's what we enjoy so we we do [TS]

  have some nice things to fall back on [TS]

  some you know things that we've played [TS]

  in the past just like you said but yeah [TS]

  so John this is a show that you can [TS]

  definitely never be on because I don't [TS]

  think you could stay positive about a [TS]

  game this this description here of like [TS]

  who wrote this is probably Marco John [TS]

  probably has some nitpicks about a show [TS]

  focused solely on the good things about [TS]

  games like there's only been one episode [TS]

  that I've heard but I know you're trying [TS]

  to say like you're not it's not like [TS]

  you're gonna critique and you're not [TS]

  gonna talk about games that you don't [TS]

  like but even when talking about the [TS]

  games do you like there are always [TS]

  quirks and odd things in the games that [TS]

  you will you are briefly momentary [TS]

  laughing at the game instead of with it [TS]

  or talking about how you wish this thing [TS]

  was a little bit different that happens [TS]

  it's just in general it's it's positive [TS]

  it's not as if you are blind to the [TS]

  quirks of the game let's say you still [TS]

  do talk about that nothing is so perfect [TS]

  like the reason I'm asking about past [TS]

  games is I'm wondering how you're gonna [TS]

  navigate speaking of trying to stay [TS]

  positive on how you're gonna navigate [TS]

  this because I want to hear you talk [TS]

  about like the long dark and half life [TS]

  or also the games I assume mike has [TS]

  never played yeah I definitely want to [TS]

  get him to play the long dark ideal [TS]

  right but if the rule is that you both [TS]

  you have to play it and one of you [TS]

  quote-unquote makes the other one play [TS]

  or if the other one doesn't like it I [TS]

  still want to hear you podcast about it [TS]

  right and so then we'll Mike have to be [TS]

  politely explained as so often happens [TS]

  in other shows where Mike is talking [TS]

  about games with somebody else one [TS]

  person might like it more than the other [TS]

  let's say and you have to be able to [TS]

  have that conversation in a reasonably [TS]

  positive way and I hope that's what you [TS]

  do yeah I think that's what we're gonna [TS]

  try and do because or we're just won't [TS]

  if the game is so negative or so [TS]

  disliked by one of the people one of us [TS]

  then we probably wouldn't talk about it [TS]

  or we'd put it on the back burner for [TS]

  for a later date but right now for the [TS]

  shows that we're gonna be talking about [TS]

  the first few episodes or so we're gonna [TS]

  try and stay mostly positive about the [TS]

  Grand Tour DeMarco was the best CI I [TS]

  didn't have three hours to listen to [TS]

  that so oh yeah but by the way I have an [TS]

  explanation for that for Marco who is [TS]

  sitting there [TS]

  off to the side pretending he can't talk [TS]

  I think it's because he's never seen Top [TS]

  Gear so he doesn't have like he doesn't [TS]

  understand how much better the same [TS]

  thing could be so like if this is your [TS]

  first viewing of these three people [TS]

  doing something they like this like oh [TS]

  yeah whatever if you don't realize that [TS]

  this is the much worse version of a [TS]

  previous thing [TS]

  maybe man I'm trying to make some [TS]

  excuses for I like Gerber likes the [TS]

  Grand Tour as much as he seems to gosh [TS]

  it's not that I shouldn't say that it's [TS]

  not so bad it's just so bad compared to [TS]

  what it was it's just the the mighty [TS]

  have fallen [TS]

  yeah that's what I'm saying I know he [TS]

  doesn't have he doesn't have a [TS]

  comparison he yeah makes me sad the [TS]

  playing for fun reminds me of a podcast [TS]

  by a couple of local guys here in [TS]

  Richmond [TS]

  called salmon Ross like things and we'll [TS]

  put a link in the show notes to that as [TS]

  well it's a similar idea where just [TS]

  every I think they do it fortnightly and [TS]

  and each of them has to bring something [TS]

  that they like to the show and and the [TS]

  rule is no hedging and so in in this era [TS]

  that's you know everyone complaining [TS]

  about everything hello then it's nice to [TS]

  have something like playing for fun or [TS]

  you know salmon Ross like things or [TS]

  something else where where people are [TS]

  more positive mmm-hmm yeah we're trying [TS]

  to keep it light and happy and give [TS]

  people something to smile when they when [TS]

  they listen to you know bring people up [TS]

  instead of down [TS]