Ep. 283: "I Never Follow the Voice"
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hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going
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um late because I got I got to head
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strong I thought I could run an errand
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oh yeah late 9 1 1 where's the late
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crown yeah I'm all right 9 1 1 joke in
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what was your errand oh it's not very
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interesting go to the bread store for
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some bread no no no no I went to the the
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ATM oh hey Jim sometimes you couldn't
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need some cash around the house tonight
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I don't like not having cash yeah these
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millenniums they love everything on a
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card I know they do it all on their
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thermostat uh it needs to stop John I
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need to stop the card thing needs to we
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just need you to pump the brakes
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hmm but anyway sorry obvious I don't
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usually talk about the show on the show
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but I ran a little late and so now I
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need to walk over here dry company oh
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you're drinking the brand name seltzer
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taste for Canada dry and it's become a
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monkey on my back yeah cuz all those
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years ago also you would got this just
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like the Kroger okay so we should
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probably just do a whole episode about
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water at some point cuz I it's been a
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journey for me I have some issues yeah
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well what okay so when I first got into
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sparkling water slash seltzer water
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slash soda water it's a regional thing I
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I used to get it in like Safeway 12
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packs and ran out of business still a
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point when I would drive a car around
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like an animal and then I I discovered
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that you could get Safeway encases yep
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yep and then I discovered that the
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Safeway delivery people would
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theoretically deliver things to your
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house for a nominal fee
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it's like a back alley dealers oh this
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is this is the seltzer hack for show so
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I got the wrong keyboard and all my
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document open holy shit so what I did
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was I discovered I'd like you to put a
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fork they're in the wrong keyboard I
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have to revisit that put it in the
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document wrong the wrong keyboard for
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old times sake I should use the old keep
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I'm a regular keyboard okay no no I
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don't make noise people email us um so
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what I discovered was a seltzer hack
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which was you could contact the Safeway
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company of Pleasanton California and you
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could say hey icebox chocolate cake and
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18 cases of Sultan do you have to talk
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to them like Randy Newman character the
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guy who goes into the corner store he's
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like oh I'm so thirsty today I wonder
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what I should have this morning in my
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case I'm like yeah you know why don't
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you give me some of those give me some
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of those all right a french fries okay
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flank steak is good I got 18 cases of
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seltzer and they will deliver it to your
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oh they hate it they hate it cuz this is
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back in the day so this is you know lots
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this lots happened in the years since
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since this this went down but this is
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when Safeway was trying to do their own
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offering they still do this but they're
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getting their bike kicked by all the
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but a man and a Safeway truck would come
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to your house and man he was fuckin
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hating life cuz Lee idea well you know
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normally you're like oh you know could I
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get a loaf of bread and a stick of
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butter and they come out and they give
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you a nice little bag to milk stick of
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butter tick chip the cap is just staples
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then what they were not expecting was
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the life hack guy asking for 18 cases of
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seltzer and then ask you please stack
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them up in this area of my garage please
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and thank you it's not pallet I mean how
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many is 18 cases I don't know if I've
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seen that in a long time it's more than
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the guy with the little back brace
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really feels like bring it into your
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house yeah and so then now I still
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continue this to this day because I
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fight this I fight the system the system
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does not want me to get heavy objects
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you know they want me to get the dainty
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bag sure now and pay the fee we're happy
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to home deliver toilet paper to you well
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they'll bring you a few but you know
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let's not abuse the system right it's
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like I'm like the guy with that
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all-you-can-eat salad bar wearing waders
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and like just stuffing mashed potatoes
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into my pants and so but since sometimes
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you got to be strategic about it and you
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got it you do an orbit and you say I
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want 18 18 cases of seltzer and they
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show up they go sorry brah they didn't
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have any seltzer and you're like really
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you didn't have any seltzer and so I
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have to start doing competitive ordering
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where I might do two to three orders in
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a day hitting the minimum until I got
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you follow me here so let's say let's
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say the minimum is $30.00 you pay attend
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or fee or whatever I didn't have the
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first time I do it a second time
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I keep scheduling I keep scheduling I
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still do that to this day I am prepared
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at this point to open a back channel
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with the Canada Dry company to say look
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I treat me like a restaurant like I am
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probably the single largest consumer of
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this let's bypass the middleman a little
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premium but like you know across your
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palm but I want some fucking Canada Dry
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original sparkling seltzer water 12
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fluid ounces I want that in large large
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amounts at my house there's got to be a
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distribution center somewhere in the Bay
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Area yeah where the you know where the
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big truck pulls up and it's like when
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Axel Foley is is hijacking or intercept
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the hijacked truck full of cigarettes at
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the beginning yes diehard or whatever
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yeah the one it's him the other guy it's
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the one he buys the carton of cigarettes
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yeah Axel Foley there's gotta be some
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deal you can make some like you know
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stack of money gets exchanged and a guy
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opens up the back of a semi-trailer and
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right full of Canada drive well okay so
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so this is an interesting twist on the
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decongestant problem okay cuz you think
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about the glory days and you know about
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my glory days I know I got a spreadsheet
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about ephedra I still hope yeah I rode
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that wave with you for a little brother
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so you could go time was you could go
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get yourself a dollar nine malt liquor
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and you get yourself a bottle and I
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think it was a hundred twenty-five
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milligram ephedrine the ephedra I think
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it was $2.99 for a hundred mmm overtime
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that went up eventually they made it
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illegal and today if you want to be able
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to breathe and I'm the JIT wanna breathe
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I want that claret indeed
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I gotta go with me both right so I have
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to go to the pharmacist window where for
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some reason they're a little higher up
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than me not a fan okay they're looking
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down on me when I see your driver's
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license for your 30 tablets of clarity I
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was like what's the jam up on this is
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this so people won't make you know
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Walter White meth and they're like yeah
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we can't you can't buy if you buy this
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more than twice in a month federal
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agents will come to your house right Wow
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now here's the thing I kind of get that
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it's sort of I was telling me we have
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traveled recently and I was telling my
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daughter about TSA and you know one time
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somebody had a kind of like a bomb in
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their shoes so now we take our shoes off
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and one time somebody had some liquid
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and that's why we can't have liquids
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right for liquid yeah yeah yeah but I
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mean like how much meth can you really
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make with 60 claritin DS not very much
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at all I mean so many of the decisions
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we make now as people are based on that
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the absolute worst okay thing that a
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single like lowest common denominator
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person will do right in to none in the
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nature can do can write this down dumb
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pretty good numbness thermometer
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but in that case in that case here's the
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thing now I'm in convenience I'm not
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trying to make meth sure I'd love to
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abuse stimulants I'd be super into it
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but I can't so I've made my peace now I
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get my claritin once a month because I
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don't want federal agents of my house I
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don't want to you know have a problem
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but here's the thing ninety nine point
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how many nines of people out there just
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won't fucking claret and so they can
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yeah in the same way most people you
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think about buying Canada dry original
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sparkling seltzer water you're buying
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that for a party would you buy you're
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gonna buy one to another bottle of that
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it's it's like it's like Vernors
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or what caffeine free diet coke it's
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something for the weirdos that want to
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mix a drink yeah but you know what it is
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I bet you it's some of these flat
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earthers are using bulk canada dry to
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power their low orbit spacecraft huh we
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laughed we laughed at that guy but he
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got it off the ground
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sure he did and do you know it was steam
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powered right yeah so I think so I think
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yeah the steam had a steam power steam
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punk rocket yeah so how far is it before
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we realize that oh no it's just it's
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like frizzy water-powered that's the
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real way that's what Elon Musk has been
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working on this whole time that's why
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they don't want to give you a pallet of
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flavorless pop oh you think it's big
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space I think it's big space they're
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putting the kibosh on your on your
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garage so what's he building in their
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situation hmm get to the fireworks
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factory yeah and so now here's the
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situation now is I do have a gig economy
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service that I use to have these things
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delivered to my house but here's the
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thing now Canada Dry has made the move
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of now putting them they don't they
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don't have cases a Canada Dry can't buy
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kids can it dry time was a man a grown
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man grown-ass man in his early 50s could
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buy a gentleman's 12-pack of Canada Oh
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guess what they're doing now now they're
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getting cute and now they're they have
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John John they sell you in a cardboard
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eight pack and the little dispenser
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doesn't even you heard me struggling did
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you hear me struggling over there what
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they're trying to get was that from an
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eight pack that's from an eight pack I'm
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stuck with eight packs now like an
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animal I've never heard of an eight pack
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mm-hmm and I don't get from Safeway
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anymore because my gig economy service
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they have the the charge a premium for
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going to Safeway fuck Safeway in the eye
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to begin with I'm a Molly stones man all
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right I don't wanna make it creepy I
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don't even know what that is what's that
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pussy when I go to in Seattle the what's
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your kind of nice grocery store Oh we'll
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see how is just built on kind of nice
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grocery stores now but are you talking
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about the QFC probably the place that
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has flowers and we bought some steaks
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yeah QFC probably they're owned by
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somebody now I don't know if you sure
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they're not independent anymore but then
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we have the you know we've got the coop
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and we've got the other co-op market you
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know the like how many fancy olives do
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you want store only get olive barge on
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you can we've got more olives than the
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other place stuff it with blue cheese so
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now I'm in a situation where I got a
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monkey on my back and I got them down
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right on my butt so now I've got room or
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a Rebecca De Mornay is the actress right
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right okay it's a Monet yeah Mon I got a
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Monet up close it looks like a bargain
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but the so now we're stuck with this
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with the lobster cuz also I like though
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here's the problem I'm a connoisseur
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John I like the flavor I like the
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mouthfeel of Canada Dry it's better than
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the generics yeah it has a slightly
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sweet aspect to it maybe because of
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where they source their water it's sweet
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water it's sweet well it's not sweet
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it's not like that fucking vitamin water
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bullshit like just have a coke
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like you know in this case but you're
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thinking like the booth has it has a
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cool sweet round quality to it utterly
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lacking in the other generics or let's
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be honest the other premium products how
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well speaking of which I have a good
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friend who is addicted well let me roll
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that back Wow I have I live in a culture
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now of people who are addicted to the
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Lacroix brand of a mildly flavored I
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don't understand how that has become
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I understand how that is that people
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have taken up the mantle of Lacroix and
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something it's like vaping it's like
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just don't understand like how that
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became such a thing I have a gal pal who
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is a motorcycle adventure person and her
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online handle is hookers and popcorn
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that's her tag that's her her brand her
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what would you call it not her avatar
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I guess handle let's call it hands on
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handle and under the handle hookers and
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popcorn she does all kinds of motorcycle
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he stunts and lifestyle events she goes
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into adventures and does adventury
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things she jumps around mm-hmm
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sometimes we'll ride a motorcycle
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standing on it seem very safe it's not
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she does unsafe things that's a that's
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another that's unsafe photos on on the
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Instagram she does unsafe things puts
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photos up of them and then it's she's
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you know she's not saying that she's a
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role model you know if you go jump on
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your motorcycle in sparkly underwear and
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riding standing up over a cliff like
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that's your problem the fact that she
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has a trained eagle that grabbed her
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right at the last minute and flew her
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off to a Mesa where she had a ayahuasca
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ceremony does not mean that that's gonna
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and she's a member of a culture of
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people who are lifestyle purveyors she
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said she has a lifestyle brand I think
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I mean she resists it or maybe resisted
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it put it that way no no no but but you
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know you she often is in a group of
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people and they're all like whoa check
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me and they're all doing like amazing
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things they're all like stunt
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motorcyclists and skateboarders you know
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the group they're basically all
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skateboarders let's be honest but
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skateboarders of cars but and it's
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amazing believe me they truly do amazing
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things it's just that like there's
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always a drone flying around somebody's
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jumping their motorcycle this is a
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there's like that one guy looks like a
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frog on YouTube and he's real popular
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and he he takes his Canon camera out and
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he jumps canyons and stuff and yeah
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enjoy life and you are a la
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you're alive exactly yeah they all have
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like like a million followers and I
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don't know what happens people give them
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stuff okay and you know me I've been
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living on Reds vitamin C and cocaine for
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many years and and I never you know I
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don't turn my nose up at a swag bag you
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that's how can my coffee but like
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nobody's giving me a motorcycle mm-hmm
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and I'm not saying anybody's given them
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motorcycles either yeah but uh oh and
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also the we got to talk about the Gibson
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Company later oh shit dog I saw that and
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thought wrong keyboard worst thing with
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yeah and Gibson was yo they got was
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buddy you saw this cut you saw that
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coming miles off I did have been talking
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about the factory thing you were
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disappointed yes yes it's on the list I
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got it but she drinks 80 Lacroix a day
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I think so she'll often send a
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photograph of the floor bed of her you
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know the foot wells of her truck as she
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drives across America from one adventure
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to the next in a never-ending
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constellation of string of pearls of
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outrageous adventures and the footwell
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of her truck will be like like ankle
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Lucroy cans and I don't think you're
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throwing those Lacroix cans down there
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half full that would be a mess I think
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she's finishing them off she's not doing
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what we used to do and I don't see
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people do this very often anymore where
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you finish a can of something and you
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crush it yeah as part of finishing it
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did you ever do that I do it now because
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I'm a super recycler and I need every
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square inch every cubic inch and you
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have that problem I remember the last
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time I spent any you know stayed
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multiple nights at your home there was
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the constant problem of where is the can
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of sparkling water I was most recently
◼
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drinking oh yeah yeah there's like
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there's cans on top of everything and
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it's like oh shit and they're all
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half-full when I did my afternoon
◼
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cleanup yesterday I tried to clean up in
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the afternoon get ready for the dinner
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hour get everything prepped
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and I go in and I clean up any cans that
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around I had I had three 3/4 full cans
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that's that's how you know you got a
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problem cuz the fizz is done at that
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point but I feel like she has been
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trying to get Lacroix to start backing
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but I think they don't I don't think
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they do it because I feel like there's
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probably within the Lacroix cult uh-huh
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I don't know if they need it know
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everybody's drinking that stuff they
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don't need any advertising they don't
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need anybody jumping motorcycles
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drinking a la croix she's making some of
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these photos John or part naked yeah
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yeah I mean not everybody in the
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lifestyle brand circuit she finds
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herself naked in a lot of unusual
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she's busy having adventures a lot of
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public John be aware of this I just got
◼
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a pan sparked off in this one she's not
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a she's not a role model she's a she
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never said that no she's doing her own
◼
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thing in her own in her own time
◼
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she's making stuff up as she goes but
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she's you know she truly does do some
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she lays on the ground a lot hairball
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stuff that's one of her that's one of
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her things she does the like I'm
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facedown dead on the ground some
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somewhere okay it's it's a kids over
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time you know everybody's got a little
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bit and when you follow people's bits
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yeah over time you're like yeah she was
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like she laid down in front of a
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farmhouse here and did a dead dead girl
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thing she seems pretty good at this
◼
►
yeah she's good she has she's good she's
◼
►
good she's good people but but but you
◼
►
know though it's the Lacroix really that
◼
►
is the manure think she'd be like reppin
◼
►
all these heavy brands like sports gear
◼
►
and you know all that the people that
◼
►
are doing like adventure sports stuff it
◼
►
seems like they're always going holding
◼
►
up their K twos and being like I did it
◼
►
you know mountain dew or whatever you
◼
►
know they're like you know or you'd find
◼
►
some kind of bespoke upstart brand that
◼
►
needs a motorcycle lady you know that
◼
►
could really benefit from being part of
◼
►
I'm just saying Lacroix is pretty
◼
►
well-established yeah but but she's not
◼
►
doing it to get I don't think she's
◼
►
she's just like addicted to Lacroix the
◼
►
point of this story signs I don't well
◼
►
no it's that what's directly to your
◼
►
point I don't understand to any of you
◼
►
how you get addicted to fizzy water
◼
►
it's got no caffeine in it it's got no
◼
►
sugar in it it's got no what is it doing
◼
►
to you like I'll have it I'll have a
◼
►
soda water when I'm with you uh-huh but
◼
►
like I don't think your haven't you're
◼
►
having a can of Safeway Seltzer in the
◼
►
interview in my yard that one time they
◼
►
get a coffee you got a coffee maybe at a
◼
►
coffee out of salts or something like
◼
►
that I have a theory I think I think
◼
►
part of it is and I got into this with
◼
►
the when I was doing the SodaStream
◼
►
family of products is if you're somebody
◼
►
who enjoys sparkling water you I think
◼
►
increasingly you're chasing the dragon
◼
►
you like that burn you you like that
◼
►
super strong fizz it doesn't hurt but I
◼
►
mean think about you and hydrogen
◼
►
peroxide another monkey you got on my
◼
►
back don't you like that feeling you
◼
►
swish it around it burns a little bit
◼
►
you got canker sore you I really got in
◼
►
there yeah yeah I like that burn I like
◼
►
any kind of burn any anything you put on
◼
►
something and it hurts see yeah see
◼
►
that's it's the healing it do you want
◼
►
that with grapefruit you know what my
◼
►
lady likes the Pomplamoose that's her
◼
►
favorite of the lowboys did you did you
◼
►
know that the medication that I'm taking
◼
►
it is contraindicated to eat grapefruit
◼
►
oh the devil you say yeah something I
◼
►
don't know what and this is the miracles
◼
►
of the world this is chemistry somehow
◼
►
if you eat grapefruit
◼
►
it makes the medicine not work is it is
◼
►
it contraindicated by other hand fruit
◼
►
and citrus some special something
◼
►
special about fruit yeah and the thing
◼
►
is I didn't even know that medical
◼
►
people and pharmacologists were even
◼
►
paying that close of it
◼
►
attention to stuff like how would they
◼
►
have even figured that out I feel like
◼
►
it's the thing where somebody was like
◼
►
grapefruit fiend and they said my
◼
►
medicine doesn't work and they they put
◼
►
it together but like are they just
◼
►
testing it how did they even test that
◼
►
I'm on the WebMD page for interactions
◼
►
for the fruit grapefruit and there's a
◼
►
lot of interactions between grapefruit
◼
►
Oh sister you're not gonna you wouldn't
◼
►
believe how many there are
◼
►
Buse buspar coreg propyl Sid and now for
◼
►
now I think that's one of the stay awake
◼
►
dextromethorphan oh that's we have a
◼
►
tussin you can't have dextromethorphan
◼
►
dextromethorphan to get rid of a
◼
►
grapefruit might decrease how quickly
◼
►
the body breaks down dextromethorphan
◼
►
you're drinking juice might increase the
◼
►
effects and side effects of it yeah
◼
►
oh so it's it's an antagonist an agonist
◼
►
yeah it's and as a multiplier fer for
◼
►
cough syrup some things it forced
◼
►
multiplies some things that antagonizes
◼
►
interesting but you know don't mess
◼
►
around with Leroy Brown yeah as you know
◼
►
a Pomplamoose lover myself because I
◼
►
like anything that burns I like anything
◼
►
uh-huh and major oh there's major in
◼
►
Russia's I'm not sending this link this
◼
►
is crazy John you know but I but I don't
◼
►
I've never gotten on the the personal
◼
►
fizzy water train and I did get I did
◼
►
get one of those soda streams and I did
◼
►
make my own fizzy water for a long time
◼
►
before I just like everybody that buys a
◼
►
thing like that just sort of got bored
◼
►
of it but I but it's not a thing like I
◼
►
don't do that thing that you or jenni
◼
►
like it does with the would like I need
◼
►
this in profusion how many do you drink
◼
►
an entire 12 pack a day
◼
►
uh-huh and that's a real screwed up now
◼
►
with the eight packs I don't even have a
◼
►
way of like easily knowing how many I've
◼
►
had now you can't get a 12 pack there
◼
►
they don't sell anymore they've redone
◼
►
it they've repackaged it oh yeah no but
◼
►
here's this is the indication that
◼
►
you're a user is that I'm never out
◼
►
I'm and I'm always I'm always stocked up
◼
►
so I mean IIIi think it's it's one of
◼
►
those things like chain-smoking where
◼
►
you're never not doing the thing unless
◼
►
there's a reason or you know admonition
◼
►
from doing the thing like I've always
◼
►
got one of these I got it's like it's
◼
►
like the chains of the ghost of
◼
►
Christmas past this episode of Roderick
◼
►
on the line is brought to you by
◼
►
you can learn more about Squarespace
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►
right now by visiting Squarespace com
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it's right there on the Internet oh you
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guys know it I am such a fan of
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Squarespace it is what we use to host
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Roderick on the line more about that in
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a second but what do you want
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we're encouraging folks to make it you
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make it yourself easily create a website
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all by yourself as I've said before I'm
◼
►
a huge fan of Squarespace I've been with
◼
►
them for I don't even know how many
◼
►
years now if you're listening to the
◼
►
Roderick on the line podcast which I
◼
►
assume you are right now you're already
◼
►
using Squarespace you're using it as a
◼
►
consumer of Squarespace but you could
◼
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also use it as a creator of Squarespace
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you put up whatever you want you get it
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up there you dingus put something on
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Squarespace you go to Squarespace
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squarespace.com and when you go there
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you know what you can use well first of
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supertrain our thanks to Squarespace for
◼
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supporting Roderick on the line and all
◼
►
the great shows Dixie and Rubicon myself
◼
►
with this ever sticks I got you know for
◼
►
long time I would get the cans and then
◼
►
on haul I should do the Soda Stream and
◼
►
of course then you know III think I
◼
►
became in our circle somewhat well known
◼
►
ya for doing the SodaStream that's part
◼
►
of your brain know that it matters but
◼
►
like no I would make it I was really
◼
►
into it and I got really into it I got
◼
►
extra bottles and then pretty soon I was
◼
►
getting into a situation where I was
◼
►
remodeled because he wanted a stockpile
◼
►
he got a stockpile I'm not gonna be out
◼
►
of it but then of course we got a kid
◼
►
and you can't do that at night it wakes
◼
►
up the whole household and then III I
◼
►
passed the Rubicon II and sticks which
◼
►
is that at this point is like okay this
◼
►
isn't really practical there's too many
◼
►
like bottles that have to be washed and
◼
►
there's the Rubicon Amitha Cobo them
◼
►
mm-hmm a pill yeah anyway so that's how
◼
►
I got back into the cans and then
◼
►
eventually in the fullness of time I
◼
►
discovered the Canada Drive brand and I
◼
►
started now you know there's a problem
◼
►
so now I'm not they're trying to buy
◼
►
like the Mickey Mouse LSD like I had to
◼
►
have a special kind of fizzy
◼
►
it's just you know I don't have places
◼
►
to talk about this so this is an
◼
►
opportunity to the ATM in order to pay
◼
►
your dealer anyway what's the worst
◼
►
thing I type this really don't talk
◼
►
about Gibson was the wrong keyboard or
◼
►
the worst thing to do with a common
◼
►
denominator well let me ask you first of
◼
►
all I this is the only I'm always amazed
◼
►
as you know yeah by computer people and
◼
►
by their their ups and downs their ins
◼
►
and outs their foibles their you know
◼
►
their common little like keychains that
◼
►
they hand to one another it must seem
◼
►
very odd to you and you have for a long
◼
►
time you were my number one computer guy
◼
►
the one that was that would explain all
◼
►
the computers to me and when I would say
◼
►
what the what the world you would say oh
◼
►
well that's just this or this is just
◼
►
that oh thank you I like to think of it
◼
►
John is I think I I feel this is true
◼
►
for myself with technology for a long
◼
►
time and I know it's true with other
◼
►
people who instruct me which is like I
◼
►
just I don't need to know everything
◼
►
about this at a high level let me know
◼
►
if this is something I need to know
◼
►
about and if it is or something I just
◼
►
need to not worry about or think about
◼
►
right and if it is something I might
◼
►
want to be interested in can you just
◼
►
give me some bullets to just sort of a
◼
►
quaint need to kind of be my personal
◼
►
Wikipedia for letting me know like if
◼
►
I'm in the ballpark for getting near
◼
►
understanding of this thing so I can say
◼
►
to you like oh you don't need to worry
◼
►
about that yeah you don't need to sign
◼
►
up for that service that's silly don't
◼
►
do that you did that a lot for me you
◼
►
would say that's not a thing that you
◼
►
care about and I would say butBut and
◼
►
you'd say no yeah don't worry don't
◼
►
worry don't worry if that ever becomes a
◼
►
thing that you need to know about you'll
◼
►
know about it and I was like great
◼
►
awesome but there are still things that
◼
►
amaze me all the time I had a question
◼
►
about for instance last night it seemed
◼
►
like when I got home I
◼
►
on the internet to look at things as you
◼
►
do and it seemed like everyone that I
◼
►
knew and everyone in the world well
◼
►
everyone was watching Jesus Christ
◼
►
Superstar on the television yes and my
◼
►
question was not like why because
◼
►
obviously Jesus Christ Superstar is
◼
►
amazing and and and this was a live
◼
►
production of it live streaming on TV
◼
►
yeah they did they did a live production
◼
►
for the East Coast and the west coast so
◼
►
they did it twice but oh oh really in
◼
►
both times it was a different
◼
►
performance I think so typically when
◼
►
NBC does these live things that they
◼
►
tend to do it twice and judging by the
◼
►
way Judah's kind of screwed up the
◼
►
lyrics for know he did fine but it was a
◼
►
loud room I think he lost the cadence a
◼
►
little bit but that guy was good where
◼
►
was the performance taking place I want
◼
►
to say the Los Angeles area so here's my
◼
►
question I do not remember in the last
◼
►
five days everybody saying we're all
◼
►
gonna watch Jesus Christ Superstar on TV
◼
►
right everybody came out of nowhere it
◼
►
came out of nowhere and everyone seemed
◼
►
to be watching it I hadn't heard about
◼
►
it and also I think if I had heard about
◼
►
it like the premise wouldn't have
◼
►
necessarily been super enticing like Oh
◼
►
NBC is gonna do a live Jesus Christ
◼
►
Superstar I would have been like you
◼
►
know what you wouldn't like clear your
◼
►
schedule for that if you know about two
◼
►
weeks ahead yeah like there's a lot of
◼
►
stuff going on that you can watch on TV
◼
►
and and yet it seemed like everybody
◼
►
just agreed offline or in a secret news
◼
►
group oh we're all gonna watch this
◼
►
thing and we're all gonna like live
◼
►
comment on it and I understand when it's
◼
►
the Oscars or something yeah that
◼
►
everybody's on everybody's watching the
◼
►
Oscars it's just understood that you're
◼
►
that was an example of a cultural moment
◼
►
where where I was like okay do I follow
◼
►
400 people who just all are really into
◼
►
musical theater is that that's not
◼
►
unlikely and it's not impossible
◼
►
like what was like where did this come
◼
►
from and when it came where it came from
◼
►
is it more about an interesting a live
◼
►
event is it about the the theatre part
◼
►
is it about you're curious about this
◼
►
production like what how did it become
◼
►
such a phenom yeah do you have any
◼
►
for me yeah I mean I think just because
◼
►
of my own way in with it was I had not
◼
►
heard about this at all yeah at all and
◼
►
then mmm I saw a couple people on
◼
►
political Twitter making jokes about
◼
►
Jesus Christ Superstar and referencing
◼
►
mr. shows Jeepers Creepers and and I
◼
►
thought that's kind of weird everybody's
◼
►
mentioning that and then it didn't seem
◼
►
like it was until like I think Saturday
◼
►
night Sunday morning that I was even
◼
►
aware that this was gonna be a thing I
◼
►
don't know I don't know where I mean I
◼
►
just there's a testament to this is the
◼
►
fact that when I did flip it on at 7:58
◼
►
last night there was a show where Steve
◼
►
Harvey talks to talented children - oh I
◼
►
didn't know existed because I don't know
◼
►
I don't know most TV exists not cuz I'm
◼
►
a snob but just cuz that's the nature of
◼
►
TV today let's find out about it and I
◼
►
am a fan of I mean I guess I'm a fan of
◼
►
the musical I'm really a super fan of a
◼
►
handful of the songs yeah and my
◼
►
daughter is getting more into what you
◼
►
could generally call musical theater I
◼
►
mean she likes some musicals a lot and
◼
►
especially some kind of like especially
◼
►
stage II things a lot I thought you know
◼
►
this could be fun she doesn't know if
◼
►
Jesus I had to give her a lot of like
◼
►
backstory on what's happening with Judas
◼
►
Jesus backstory yeah basically said
◼
►
Judas Judas in this is good apart from
◼
►
also being a black guy Judas and this is
◼
►
kind of like Aaron Burr and Hamilton
◼
►
he's the ring he sort of down to earth
◼
►
he's worried about being practical yeah
◼
►
but no that's the time I found out about
◼
►
it we watched it I let her watch a
◼
►
little bit of it she got to see Caiaphas
◼
►
in the shed to go to bed I know a lot
◼
►
about Steve Harvey mm-hmm
◼
►
because I follow do you know Vic burger
◼
►
is well he makes the funny videos right
◼
►
he makes the funny videos yeah Joey
◼
►
knows about Kenan Thompson's
◼
►
impersonation of him from Sarah alive
◼
►
that's the guy that the guy you like I'm
◼
►
Sara alive is impersonated he Victor gur
◼
►
makes little videos oh my gosh so funny
◼
►
his Jim Baker it is oh my god they're
◼
►
but his Steve Harvey videos are are also
◼
►
he hasn't made one in a while but
◼
►
they're very fun and so I have a so I
◼
►
became aware of Steve Harvey and then
◼
►
you know did a little background
◼
►
research on him to know what the hell I
◼
►
was looking at the Jim Baker food
◼
►
buckets that's that is a very very funny
◼
►
assist ivar he's like he's kind of a
◼
►
throwback maybe a little bit along the
◼
►
lines of Chris Hardwick kind of a
◼
►
throwback to a kind of character you
◼
►
don't see as much anymore actually the
◼
►
kind of character I always thought you
◼
►
should aspire to be which is a TV
◼
►
personality you got people who just show
◼
►
up and do stuff in different places and
◼
►
sometimes they have a regular show or
◼
►
another regular show but they're just
◼
►
like a fixture of TV to a mental says
◼
►
disparagingly but to administer your
◼
►
mind you go oh look that Steve Harvey
◼
►
he's doing another thing yeah sort of
◼
►
like what sort of like I don't say Paul
◼
►
Lin but sort of like along the lines of
◼
►
somebody you would see on Mike Douglas
◼
►
you know who might host you know battle
◼
►
the network stars or something
◼
►
I mean that that world doesn't exist
◼
►
anymore and I and that's kind of the
◼
►
thing that confuses me about this thing
◼
►
that you watched last night because it
◼
►
feels like a throwback to a time when
◼
►
everybody sat down to watch the day
◼
►
after no you're gonna watch the one
◼
►
you're gonna watch the show where
◼
►
there's not that much event viewing
◼
►
anymore and in any age of so lots of
◼
►
people like idiots like me will there
◼
►
are a handful of shows like Game of
◼
►
Thrones that I will watch the second
◼
►
that it comes on but you can't really
◼
►
talk about it because the spoilers and
◼
►
stuff but like a part if you're not in
◼
►
the world of live sports you don't have
◼
►
that much community event viewing
◼
►
anymore right community event viewing
◼
►
and well you know I don't even have a TV
◼
►
oh of course I don't either
◼
►
I thought you have TV I don't know about
◼
►
it but so you were saying earlier that
◼
►
and I have the wrong keyboard and and
◼
►
and so in my mind all of a sudden not
◼
►
only did did my mind generate a world in
◼
►
which you have like a shelf with between
◼
►
nine and fifteen keyboards and you pull
◼
►
them down like like people from West
◼
►
Virginia deploy rifles yeah oh man I
◼
►
need my or just like oh I need my Gibson
◼
►
SG for this song you're like oh this is
◼
►
my router come the line keyboard doing a
◼
►
personal Harold you're like bringing all
◼
►
the topics together and and and so I was
◼
►
like wow but then I thought then
◼
►
immediately I left - oh shit do I not
◼
►
have enough keyboards oh no I was just
◼
►
like Oh Merlin didn't tell me I needed
◼
►
multiple keyboards and now you send me a
◼
►
picture and what it seems like you have
◼
►
is an analog clickety clack keyboard and
◼
►
then you have that great little keyboard
◼
►
that you told me to buy a long time ago
◼
►
the little solar-powered keyboard and I
◼
►
still have mine and not only do I have
◼
►
one but I got another one for another
◼
►
key or another computer and I think
◼
►
they're just great little keyboards so
◼
►
you were saying you were gonna be on the
◼
►
clackety-clack one but look at all the
◼
►
gears you see all the dander on these
◼
►
yeah yeah yeah I posted a picture of my
◼
►
keyboard one time and I got like 45
◼
►
disgusting anymore I got a box cutter
◼
►
you terrorist scotch tape you like
◼
►
scotch brand tape expensive earphones I
◼
►
bet I bet though five dollar bill I
◼
►
can't believe you still use cash what is
◼
►
that is that a moleskin pair why don't
◼
►
you if it's a solar keyboard why don't
◼
►
you clean off the solar part monkey
◼
►
solar part thanks thanks thanks buddy I
◼
►
got it I got a tweet yesterday that was
◼
►
and this is how you know that there it's
◼
►
a crazy tweet because although it's only
◼
►
at they only at me they're speaking as
◼
►
though they are talking about me to a
◼
►
check the tweet before that one oh I see
◼
►
where Professor Roderick yeah she I
◼
►
think this was just out of the blue or
◼
►
no it was in reply cuz I sent out some I
◼
►
sent out some tweets I mean you get
◼
►
you're getting lots of lots of responses
◼
►
to your nice tweets that was a nice
◼
►
tweet storm you did well I was very I'm
◼
►
pretty shy about about promoting myself
◼
►
and yeah and about promoting the podcast
◼
►
but you did it well you did it well and
◼
►
you were real straight up about it you
◼
►
didn't go hey for the afternoon crowd in
◼
►
case you missed it titillating yeah you
◼
►
were straight up you said hey I make
◼
►
these podcasts and I'm happy I'm proud
◼
►
of these and if you're not listening to
◼
►
them I like you to give them a try and I
◼
►
thought you're a real gentleman about it
◼
►
well and I got a lot of nice nice nice
◼
►
replies a lot of a lot of people that
◼
►
that you know that obviously like
◼
►
Roderick on the line was their
◼
►
introduction and and their and they
◼
►
still love the show and they wanted to
◼
►
say how much that they did and and you
◼
►
know I love that stuff although that's
◼
►
not when I was president nixon said you
◼
►
get a silent majority you get I mean the
◼
►
truth is most people who listen dear to
◼
►
a podcast like tend to like the podcast
◼
►
and why would they ever say anything
◼
►
it's nice when people do that I'm happy
◼
►
and humbled when people do that it makes
◼
►
yeah me too me too absolutely but then
◼
►
but then and and and as you're just
◼
►
describing like when I put them out
◼
►
there I thought you're cuz every time
◼
►
you're reading the replies you're like
◼
►
well how long before I get how long
◼
►
before I get a turkey here how long
◼
►
before I get that before I met the wonka
◼
►
factory and the goose that's laying the
◼
►
golden eggs one of them goes and goes
◼
►
down the shithole you know what I mean I
◼
►
know and there was one that was just
◼
►
like some asshole remark and I went and
◼
►
looked at their bio and their Twitter
◼
►
bio was like I'm an asshole I was like
◼
►
okay you're easy to block yeah but this
◼
►
couple years ago I couldn't you know it
◼
►
said no the one that's the one that was
◼
►
like I'm an asshole was just you know
◼
►
like what do you call three white guys
◼
►
sitting around with nothing to talk
◼
►
about a podcast it's like
◼
►
that's good stuff that's good you should
◼
►
never take it on the road but no this
◼
►
guy was like I used to love Roderick on
◼
►
the line I listen to it all the time it
◼
►
was you know might be a number one show
◼
►
or whatever but I listen to friendly
◼
►
fire my podcast where I talk about war
◼
►
movies and John was so mean to Saving
◼
►
that I can't listen to any of the shows
◼
►
anymore not only know that sounds like a
◼
►
straight-up medical situation very very
◼
►
difficult to diagnose what happened is
◼
►
that what happened is Johnson did make a
◼
►
movie and now you can't listen to his
◼
►
stuff well it wasn't just the night that
◼
►
I said I do like Saving Private Ryan I
◼
►
might have like oversold how mad I guess
◼
►
we just complement things all the time
◼
►
movies if you don't like wow this bag
◼
►
check mix check party mix not really
◼
►
good I like every single thing in it I
◼
►
can't even I don't even know which one
◼
►
to praise most they're all so good I can
◼
►
imagine why anybody would love these
◼
►
more than all of their foods I could not
◼
►
praise anyone more than another you get
◼
►
oh you know what you forgot you forgot
◼
►
this other check mix that I make these
◼
►
never heard of you forgot you forgot I
◼
►
love you for God guy oh there was a guy
◼
►
that replied and said oh yeah podcasts
◼
►
were great you should listen to mine
◼
►
another guy like a pretty excellent guy
◼
►
was like that's kind of not how you do
◼
►
it you don't do that you don't like
◼
►
reply to somebody's really nice tweet
◼
►
stream about what they're making with a
◼
►
link to your own thing and then the guy
◼
►
applied to that guy oh boy and said it's
◼
►
on he said you don't know me man I'm
◼
►
living in my car right now and still I'm
◼
►
managing to put podcasts out every week
◼
►
he was like well you know like being
◼
►
poor and being an asshole are not
◼
►
mutually exclusive Oh doctor what are
◼
►
I just always we talked about this
◼
►
before I've talked about this everywhere
◼
►
I'm sorry it's just how I feel I think
◼
►
one must be very careful about feeling a
◼
►
level of familiarity with a stranger -
◼
►
to where your first time that you
◼
►
address them you address them as though
◼
►
they know you as well as you feel you
◼
►
know them and I almost did it last night
◼
►
somebody like that I like and follow on
◼
►
political Twitter who has no idea who I
◼
►
am had a hot take on how Godspell is
◼
►
better than Jesus Christ Superstar which
◼
►
of course is a garbage opinion and I was
◼
►
I was about to make a joke about it and
◼
►
then I thought wait a minute if somebody
◼
►
if somebody did that to me I'd go like
◼
►
this / like you know basically the sound
◼
►
of running into something in an old
◼
►
video game try the key again and like
◼
►
that my first interaction with Matthew
◼
►
Gertz might have been ma I'm gonna let
◼
►
you have this one because it's Easter
◼
►
Matthew Gertz and of course you would
◼
►
see that I close the window I'm gonna be
◼
►
my first interaction with this person
◼
►
that I like and admire is to be an
◼
►
asshole and I was like don't be that guy
◼
►
ya see I'm not even saying you have to
◼
►
go and like roll out of carpet and bring
◼
►
a fizzy drink and say oh I love
◼
►
everything you do but like don't don't
◼
►
assume like a level of familiarity that
◼
►
thought that's not there somebody is
◼
►
there with you well look what happened
◼
►
with that guy decade that somebody
◼
►
turned around did that to him and he got
◼
►
all touchy about it oh he was mad he was
◼
►
mad in fact he ended up texting and
◼
►
tweeting me that he blocked the other
◼
►
dude oh and I was like hey buddy you and
◼
►
I are not the friends in this scenario
◼
►
like you and I are not the ones that are
◼
►
conspiring against the other guy who is
◼
►
moving myself from this narrow but I you
◼
►
know I still do it where I see somebody
◼
►
I admire on Twitter that I think is
◼
►
doing something funny and I try to chime
◼
►
in with some funny thing like law
◼
►
and I'm just like oh and then I kind of
◼
►
you know my shoulders sag and I'm like
◼
►
you know and then I would go through a
◼
►
little minute or two where I'm like just
◼
►
don't even bother my friend Elon Gale
◼
►
right the the producer of The Bachelor
◼
►
the airplane guy because he's the
◼
►
airplane he says he's whatever Janet and
◼
►
c7c try his troublemaker he's a
◼
►
troublemaker and he probably gets 20,000
◼
►
replies to every tweet he does oh yeah
◼
►
like let me let me redo your joke in a
◼
►
not as funny way or explain it to you
◼
►
but he's incredibly good about making
◼
►
sure that if if I like jump in and go
◼
►
like a little leg up he always gives me
◼
►
a prop he oh he always like he always
◼
►
does a touch right he just like reaches
◼
►
out and and even if it's just like yeah
◼
►
he he's super duper duper considerate
◼
►
about the about like there's my friend
◼
►
and I don't know how he does it I don't
◼
►
know how he's scanning through all this
◼
►
stuff and maybe he has some setting
◼
►
where he's just like people I know are
◼
►
the only ones I want to see oh it's good
◼
►
about just like hello and gives that
◼
►
little touch that's nice I'm not good at
◼
►
it people are like you know trying to
◼
►
jump in all the time and I'm just like
◼
►
yeah that's funny that's funny but I
◼
►
don't like give them a bunch of I'm not
◼
►
like throwing a game at everybody yeah
◼
►
but boy it's unseemly it is but but but
◼
►
you know if I'm like jumping in on some
◼
►
some thread of friends and I'm like yeah
◼
►
you guys and it's just like you know
◼
►
just to hear that tumbleweed never try
◼
►
never try just go just go die aren't you
◼
►
this is a term I learned last week are
◼
►
you being a trihard mmm see now I need
◼
►
you a good thing to do are you are you
◼
►
here for this is this everything right
◼
►
everybody's telling you what they're
◼
►
Oh tell me though tell me that is
◼
►
everything or or or sometimes there are
◼
►
some kinds of things that are too real
◼
►
what do these things mean oh I don't
◼
►
know like these Easter eggs were too
◼
►
real Twitter told me too real no what
◼
►
you real like oh man who to to real I'm
◼
►
here for this I'm here for this I'm here
◼
►
for this where do you put the accent I'm
◼
►
here I'm here for this
◼
►
oh man you uh you uh untangled a lot of
◼
►
wire there well you know the thing that
◼
►
was going around a few years ago which
◼
►
people were like all right I'm done and
◼
►
it wasn't friendly it wasn't like I'm
◼
►
done it was like I'm done and they were
◼
►
so gallantly Sam over this yeah it was
◼
►
like a mic drop thing where they have
◼
►
some exchange with somebody and then
◼
►
they just be like I'm done mm-hm as
◼
►
though like they were some you know some
◼
►
King in a like a 50s teleplay who was
◼
►
like off with his head or something or
◼
►
like vaudeville they're giving you the
◼
►
hook oh the hook right but but it wasn't
◼
►
funny or friendly and I remember so I
◼
►
when I was running for City Council
◼
►
I was sitting in the stranger offices
◼
►
with their election Control Board with
◼
►
my opponents the three of us were
◼
►
sitting in or four of us I'm sorry we're
◼
►
sitting around a big table with all of
◼
►
the stranger editorial writers and they
◼
►
were peppering us with hard question
◼
►
hats it said press on them they
◼
►
basically did and there was an on the
◼
►
election Control Board there were like
◼
►
three people who were older in the my
◼
►
age area one of them was Dan Savage
◼
►
who's Lou older than me one of them was
◼
►
Tim Keck the publisher who's a little
◼
►
older than me but they were like put
◼
►
olds and then there were the Youngs who
◼
►
were all in their mid 20s who were like
◼
►
the radical stranger writers who believe
◼
►
that private property should be
◼
►
abolished and that we don't need police
◼
►
and they were really one of them in
◼
►
particular who ended up getting fired
◼
►
from the stranger for being a dickhole
◼
►
and like a not not just personality wise
◼
►
but he was fired because he did
◼
►
unscrupulous journalistic things that's
◼
►
not good you know what that no and I
◼
►
never liked it means that he's a tool
◼
►
and a bad writer but he definitely felt
◼
►
like he wanted the other guy to win my
◼
►
opponent to win he could use it was just
◼
►
written all over him and he was asking
◼
►
peppering me with questions about stuff
◼
►
that my opponent was an expert on so one
◼
►
of my opponents was a housing like a
◼
►
housing advocate and he was directing
◼
►
the the the writer was directing a
◼
►
stream of increasingly hostile questions
◼
►
to me like well what's your housing plan
◼
►
and essentially my answer was my housing
◼
►
plan is once I'm elected I'm gonna hire
◼
►
this guy to my right to be my housing
◼
►
guy what are you talking about what's my
◼
►
housing plan I'm not gonna go
◼
►
head-to-head with a with my opponent
◼
►
who's got it for ten years has been
◼
►
developing a housing plan mm-hmm like
◼
►
I'm running for City Council not for
◼
►
housing guy and at one point he said he
◼
►
leaned back in his chair and he was like
◼
►
I've done really yeah that's the thing
◼
►
that he said yeah and I felt what when
◼
►
you go back when you run for office like
◼
►
that it's a very concentrated set of
◼
►
events where apparently if I'm any
◼
►
indication the rest of your life you
◼
►
will be replaying those moments ongoing
◼
►
oh you know what I should have said
◼
►
because it's a lot of those things all
◼
►
at once and you know you build up a
◼
►
lifetime's a lifetime worth of what I
◼
►
should have said like what every time
◼
►
I'm driving necessary tasks ali-a yeah
◼
►
if I drive for very long I will my mind
◼
►
will start to go to some event in a
◼
►
union hall somewhere where I should have
◼
►
told somebody where they could put it
◼
►
and what I should have said to that guy
◼
►
was exactly what I mean you're done
◼
►
but you're done yeah buddy now you don't
◼
►
want to become that guy where you're
◼
►
famous for that interview well you know
◼
►
I'd rather be famous for that interview
◼
►
that not famous for that interview
◼
►
that's a what Scott said you know I
◼
►
could have I would have happily burned
◼
►
that place down because the stranger was
◼
►
supposed to they were supposed to be my
◼
►
friends right I've known I've been part
◼
►
of the stranger I've written for the
◼
►
stranger they're all they're all pals
◼
►
you know and yet they had this every
◼
►
three years they hire a bunch of new
◼
►
young writers and the new young writers
◼
►
weren't friends of mine they didn't know
◼
►
anything about me and it was like oh I
◼
►
expected some leftist Oldboy Network
◼
►
treatment where I was like the stranger
◼
►
has been you know like the stranger is a
◼
►
radical newspaper I'm a radical we've
◼
►
always been on the same page but now
◼
►
there are a bunch of 24 year olds that
◼
►
think I'm a that think I'm some crusty
◼
►
ten years ago I in the spirit of your
◼
►
personal Harold I feel like there's a
◼
►
sort of a threat that runs through some
◼
►
of this stuff that something is
◼
►
something that I try to be aware of
◼
►
because I think it's important I mean
◼
►
one problem when we communicate with
◼
►
others and especially today in the
◼
►
weirdly mediated way that we have access
◼
►
to strangers not the titular stranger
◼
►
but people we don't know I I feel like
◼
►
there's a certain kind of I'm done
◼
►
tone to things I certainly do it I'm
◼
►
sure we all do it we all have limited
◼
►
attention in patience and vulnerability
◼
►
that we're willing to have destroyed but
◼
►
I think I think one thing you don't have
◼
►
to be cute about this you don't have to
◼
►
be like a fakie weirdo about it but like
◼
►
when you're interacting with people in
◼
►
general I think it's important to try
◼
►
and leave room leave air like you don't
◼
►
need to settle every mystery immediately
◼
►
there should be it doesn't necessarily
◼
►
like a flirtation but in interactions
◼
►
that you have with people there should
◼
►
you unless you have a real unless you're
◼
►
serving a warrant like generally try and
◼
►
leave some air try to leave some room
◼
►
for joy for playfulness for the other
◼
►
person to have an opportunity to to get
◼
►
get their fun in as well but also and I
◼
►
want to say this I'm not saying you have
◼
►
to have a relationship with everybody
◼
►
but like it seems like a lot of
◼
►
communication in some ways especially on
◼
►
the internet especially in places like
◼
►
Twitter comes down to like you're a bad
◼
►
you're a bad person and I would never
◼
►
want to have a relationship with you and
◼
►
even if that relationship is just kind
◼
►
of a silent from a distance enjoying
◼
►
another person's stuff in your case I
◼
►
mean that was probably kind of not cool
◼
►
of that person I understand their job is
◼
►
to comfort the affor to afflict the
◼
►
company and all that kind of stuff but
◼
►
like when even in the way you ask
◼
►
interview questions of people like give
◼
►
people some space to answer in an
◼
►
interesting way and if they don't if
◼
►
they aren't answering the question you
◼
►
could pursue them but like I feel like
◼
►
in so many of our interactions we are
◼
►
we're trying to create some kind of a
◼
►
conversational trap that leaves no room
◼
►
for this to go anywhere
◼
►
we're basically you're just going mad
◼
►
and then it just stops right there and
◼
►
like I mean I don't have one specific
◼
►
example of this that I can give but like
◼
►
I do know that like a certain amount of
◼
►
lightness and playfulness and like or
◼
►
you know or curiosity is maybe another
◼
►
way to put it like don't be afraid to be
◼
►
curious and you don't have to be a
◼
►
weirdo about it but it's what I when
◼
►
you're communicating with people on
◼
►
Twitter like think about that like think
◼
►
about whether you are preemptively
◼
►
shutting down an actual conversation
◼
►
that you could have with somebody if it
◼
►
is a conversation you want having if
◼
►
it's not just mute them and have them go
◼
►
away but I don't know I I I don't mean
◼
►
to be a concern troll here but I worry
◼
►
that that what starts out as something
◼
►
we type with our fingers on our phone
◼
►
can start to affect the way that we
◼
►
think about any interaction and now
◼
►
becomes become super annoyed about
◼
►
everybody in line at the grocery store
◼
►
and we forget that this is water and
◼
►
like I don't know I just I'd like to try
◼
►
and keep that in mind and if I if I I'm
◼
►
genuinely curious about another person I
◼
►
want to give them room to take this
◼
►
thing where they want to go with it
◼
►
rather than feeling like I'm going to
◼
►
constrict them or or creep them out by
◼
►
giving some kind of decisive punctuation
◼
►
mark about this non relationship we have
◼
►
I wonder if it is a I wonder if it's a
◼
►
thing where like wouldn't when we've
◼
►
talked about this quite a bit when we
◼
►
were young there were still a lot of
◼
►
unsolved mysteries yeah right the leaf
◼
►
flu sure talked about this the Bermuda
◼
►
Triangle etc or just knowing who the guy
◼
►
in that show is the unsolved mysteries
◼
►
who was that's not Leonard Nimoy isn't
◼
►
yeah but was it John Walsh I don't even
◼
►
I wouldn't know John Walsh would be
◼
►
walked in right now and handed me a
◼
►
cupcake okay but I could google him no
◼
►
but you're right I mean like the obvious
◼
►
example is like like me sitting there
◼
►
last night watching a series of
◼
►
unfortunate events and going look I know
◼
►
that actress oh it's that actress from
◼
►
the Austin Powers movies that I really
◼
►
like and of course I'm able to look that
◼
►
up instantly and drill straight into
◼
►
that episode that just aired a day ago
◼
►
and it's already there I already have
◼
►
instantly the information about
◼
►
something that I want immediately that's
◼
►
a trivial example yeah
◼
►
Oh John Walsh is exactly who I was
◼
►
thinking of he's the host of America's
◼
►
Most Wanted and Adam lost his father
◼
►
right yeah you had that terrible
◼
►
situation with his son that's how his
◼
►
one doesn't want to say career but
◼
►
that's like he's started off by being an
◼
►
advocate for for kids well so that's not
◼
►
that's probably not who did unsolved
◼
►
mysteries but you're to my pal Gary his
◼
►
name's Gary you're saying he's not right
◼
►
Gary I got those tweets that is good
◼
►
that was funny that was making fun of us
◼
►
for not remembering one of our canonical
◼
►
characters but but things that were not
◼
►
know not easily findable but they not
◼
►
even be knowable at all well I'm still a
◼
►
great number of places in the world that
◼
►
you felt like hadn't been explored right
◼
►
islands in the South Pacific that were
◼
►
uninhabited it was still plausible that
◼
►
Gilligan and the skipper would get into
◼
►
a shipwreck on a island that
◼
►
could sustain life but that there just
◼
►
wasn't anybody living there and it was
◼
►
uncharted like there were uncharted
◼
►
places who knew behind the Iron Curtain
◼
►
who knew it was back they can't prove a
◼
►
negative like how do you know Atlantis
◼
►
doesn't exist what we have no way of
◼
►
knowing we have no way of knowing and
◼
►
now we've mapped the entire world we've
◼
►
we believe we have overlaid it with a
◼
►
grid system enough that we can pretty
◼
►
much put our put our pinkie down on
◼
►
anything we wanted to see and with
◼
►
Wikipedia and everything else we feel
◼
►
like we've called it all we've named
◼
►
everything and all that's missing from
◼
►
Wikipedia is stuff from the olden times
◼
►
that we haven't brought forward and put
◼
►
on but there's nothing happening now
◼
►
that isn't being recorded there's
◼
►
nothing you know if you
◼
►
nothing you know if you
◼
►
when I wanted to go sit and study Google
◼
►
Earth we could find Gilligan we could
◼
►
find anything we were looking for and
◼
►
that's happened in a very brief amount
◼
►
of time and so so there's an element to
◼
►
the curiosity that we grew up being
◼
►
expected to have or it was kind of baked
◼
►
in a kind of curiosity about what is in
◼
►
the forest even like oh if I go into the
◼
►
woods here next to my house cuz I'm a
◼
►
little kid I don't know how big the
◼
►
woods are and I imagine maybe the woods
◼
►
go forever and maybe these will go into
◼
►
you dig a hole to China yeah right it's
◼
►
gonna Sherwood Forest or whatever and
◼
►
now there's a maybe I feel like in the
◼
►
world a sense that everything's mapped
◼
►
and so there isn't that feeling that oh
◼
►
you know maybe no one's ever been in
◼
►
this cave maybe no one's ever I mean
◼
►
from the time that you're small uh-huh
◼
►
Oh what if I'm the first person to ever
◼
►
climb this tree yeah yeah yeah and so is
◼
►
our relationship to curiosity changings
◼
►
so that all these responses that we're
◼
►
getting to on the on the internet
◼
►
there's not a feeling that anybody else
◼
►
has anything to teach you anymore like
◼
►
you you already know everything -
◼
►
everything's already known it's not a
◼
►
question of learning it's a question of
◼
►
just opinion like it's not it's not that
◼
►
I didn't know that it's that I just
◼
►
didn't have an opinion about it yet and
◼
►
it's so different from when when we were
◼
►
kids where I was just like you know when
◼
►
I heard that maybe Led Zeppelin Jimmy
◼
►
Page was like I had bought aleister
◼
►
crowley's house I was like it is the
◼
►
music of Led Zeppelin amazing because
◼
►
Jimmy Page talking to the devil and now
◼
►
they would even if I was the little
◼
►
there'd be like eleven other
◼
►
eight-year-olds who are like well
◼
►
actually mm-hmm snows know whether I
◼
►
don't know what how to teach curiosity
◼
►
or how to how to do what you're saying
◼
►
like reply to people and say leave some
◼
►
like like let it be interesting I
◼
►
totally agree and like yeah this is I
◼
►
don't mean this to sound sexist sexist
◼
►
because I think it's actually true of
◼
►
everybody but one of the first things I
◼
►
remember hearing in terms of grown-up
◼
►
relationship advice that I found to be
◼
►
very useful especially given my
◼
►
personality this is now this is such a
◼
►
cliche a but B it's also it's true of I
◼
►
think all sexes in sexes and genders
◼
►
which is like when somebody especially
◼
►
historically you see like a woman wants
◼
►
to talk about something men have a
◼
►
tendency to once you solve a problem and
◼
►
I feel silly even saying this because
◼
►
everybody knows this at this point
◼
►
supposedly but like the idea is that
◼
►
like somebody comes to you and they want
◼
►
you know Barbara at work has been really
◼
►
kind of been a thorn in my side lately
◼
►
and like you know she didn't invite me
◼
►
to this meeting and I'm not sure if I
◼
►
should feel weird about that and like
◼
►
men tend to want to like me tend to want
◼
►
to jump in and go well you should go
◼
►
straight to your boss or you should talk
◼
►
to Barbara or you should send an email
◼
►
my credit but let me solve this problem
◼
►
for you before you're even done with the
◼
►
sentence let alone the paragraph where
◼
►
really that person maybe maybe wasn't
◼
►
looking for a solution that person just
◼
►
wanted to talk about something in their
◼
►
life that they maybe don't want a
◼
►
solution for and maybe the talking and
◼
►
like could be sometimes the talking
◼
►
about it is the solution but like you
◼
►
don't you know and I really really
◼
►
struggle with this in life like I don't
◼
►
like when people finish my sentences
◼
►
like I don't want to finish other
◼
►
people's sentences because sometimes
◼
►
they just need to ramble a little bit
◼
►
I've talked about this I think as a
◼
►
component in the relationship between my
◼
►
mother and sister my sister comes home
◼
►
and is one of these people that wants to
◼
►
just talk about the problems that she
◼
►
had during the day no she's not doing it
◼
►
she's not filing a bug she's not looked
◼
►
on so like in an hour
◼
►
I need this solved does not want a it
◼
►
does not want the problem solved wants
◼
►
to I mean basically wants to bitch about
◼
►
yes and then at the end be done and my
◼
►
mom is someone who wants to solve the
◼
►
problem and she's a grown man she is she
◼
►
problems yeah she's just like well why
◼
►
don't you talk to your manager why oh
◼
►
here's that you know here's something
◼
►
you could do unplug maybe with a little
◼
►
bit of hint of like this is actually not
◼
►
absolutely I mean I think there's that
◼
►
kind of an important aspect of the like
◼
►
why is this a problem well but also the
◼
►
flip side of it is that bitching about
◼
►
stuff is uncomfortable for certain
◼
►
people to listen to like my mom is
◼
►
extremely impatient because she doesn't
◼
►
want to hear because to her ears it's
◼
►
just like belly ain't what why are you
◼
►
complacent like either solve the problem
◼
►
or get used to it you know get
◼
►
accustomed to it and deal with it and
◼
►
like stop complaining is my mom's take
◼
►
on it and so it's a it's it's a long bin
◼
►
when it starts to happen in my house I
◼
►
usually pick up the newspaper so just
◼
►
slowly edge out of the room like without
◼
►
saying it's like I'm behind the
◼
►
newspaper I'm reading an article showing
◼
►
fuse that has just been to another
◼
►
response does she for years it was just
◼
►
really frustrating because they had not
◼
►
identified this as the dynamic Susan's
◼
►
response was just to get more and more
◼
►
agitated because she's like well yeah
◼
►
like sure I could unplug the
◼
►
refrigerator but that's not the point
◼
►
right and the point is sometimes what
◼
►
you're really saying is yeah I know I
◼
►
know the world is that way I don't want
◼
►
the world to be that way you know saying
◼
►
you know I don't tell me how to change
◼
►
the world just listen to me be
◼
►
frustrated that the world is this way
◼
►
yeah and it and it was and my mom just
◼
►
got more and more frustrated to like
◼
►
shell if you don't want if you don't
◼
►
want my advice why are you coming home I
◼
►
can see but I can see and have been on
◼
►
both points of view both sides of that
◼
►
yeah and I think there is a there is a
◼
►
culture of well I don't know I mean like
◼
►
for myself personally I try it's not
◼
►
even that I try it is not in my nature
◼
►
there are times when I protest like if I
◼
►
go up to the counter at an airline and
◼
►
they say you do not get blank I say I
◼
►
would like to lodge a protest what do
◼
►
you mean I'm not getting an upgrade but
◼
►
that's a protest once they say you don't
◼
►
get an upgrade or once they say sorry
◼
►
we're not going to let you put your
◼
►
guitar in the overhead bin because we
◼
►
didn't read the memo from the US Senate
◼
►
or whatever I don't then sit in the
◼
►
chair and complain you know I'm like
◼
►
resolved and resolved being a part of it
◼
►
is that I feel like I deserve suffering
◼
►
but but also like there is no point to
◼
►
it because I cannot win now you know and
◼
►
my mom is the same way like well you
◼
►
know if I have to wear these shoes that
◼
►
are made out of fire then I guess I have
◼
►
to wear a shoes made out of fire I don't
◼
►
like it but what does it serve to
◼
►
complain and my sister on yeah on the
◼
►
other hand is going you know her way of
◼
►
processing the events that happened to
◼
►
her is just kind of like putting them
◼
►
out there in the form of either
◼
►
celebration or lament and but it is
◼
►
participatory right my mom does not
◼
►
require my sister to to help her process
◼
►
her events because she is doing them
◼
►
internally and quietly but my sister
◼
►
does require my mom she does require a
◼
►
listener it wouldn't be sufficient to
◼
►
just make a cage and put some socks
◼
►
around it and have a and have a bowl of
◼
►
food in it so Susan could cling to it
◼
►
and yell at day it wouldn't that would
◼
►
not work right she needs someone to
◼
►
listen and pay and that pay that
◼
►
attention somehow and that it feels like
◼
►
another example of like the
◼
►
introvert/extrovert issue where the
◼
►
extrovert is like introverts are
◼
►
very very aware of extrovert culture
◼
►
introverts know what extrovert world
◼
►
looks like because they can't help but
◼
►
know yeah it's like it's like not being
◼
►
into sports like I'm not into sports but
◼
►
boy do I ever have to know about sports
◼
►
but extroverts are not aware of
◼
►
introvert culture or their needs because
◼
►
why would they be all they see are other
◼
►
extroverts and introverts just seem like
◼
►
people who are standing there waiting
◼
►
for them to come talk to them and you
◼
►
know it's like it's like when you talk
◼
►
to black people about white culture
◼
►
they're like look we know all about
◼
►
white example is everywhere what a guy
◼
►
butts into like three women talking on
◼
►
the internet to explain what they must
◼
►
understand about feminism yeah man it's
◼
►
like Oh what you don't know about men
◼
►
and they're like no seriously we know
◼
►
that I can't even believe is real which
◼
►
was where somebody responded to a woman
◼
►
and said you know mansplaining is not
◼
►
really a thing great but it's that but
◼
►
it's that type of thing you know you
◼
►
hear about you hear about this the
◼
►
divide as being a thing of like not you
◼
►
know like or or or the way you initially
◼
►
started to describe it initially it was
◼
►
presented as husband and wife was a wife
◼
►
the model was that hey husbands you need
◼
►
to listen to your wives more but like I
◼
►
I only did that as a jumping-off point
◼
►
of how I learned about it the truth is
◼
►
it goes for everybody do you be aware
◼
►
when somebody just wants to think out
◼
►
loud a little bit there's a funny
◼
►
episode of a very good episode of Parks
◼
►
and Rec and I think you're probably not
◼
►
a fan a huge fan but we're Chris Chris
◼
►
Traeger the play by Rob Lowe like is
◼
►
trying to is like his wife Quincy
◼
►
Jones's daughter is pregnant and he
◼
►
keeps trying to like fix everything and
◼
►
and I forget who it was the system you
◼
►
know here's your here's a trick go stop
◼
►
talking except to periodically say that
◼
►
sucks and like that is that is a way
◼
►
over simplified shorthand but it's kind
◼
►
adopt a that sucks attitude that has you
◼
►
open to listening to that person rather
◼
►
than trying to like explain how they're
◼
►
being unhappy wrong yeah that's pretty
◼
►
good yeah i'm i am definitely being
◼
►
unhappy wrong periodically check in on
◼
►
this podcast called i only listen to the
◼
►
mountain goats i don't listen to every
◼
►
episode but it's a very interesting idea
◼
►
it's the guy from oh what show is it he
◼
►
does night Vale i think i love that when
◼
►
you are trying to remember something you
◼
►
put put a little tremolo in it anyway
◼
►
and they're going through god what album
◼
►
is it all hell west texas but anyway and
◼
►
they go through track by track and this
◼
►
guy interviews John Darnielle who's a
◼
►
very articulate guy I'm not a giant fan
◼
►
of music but hear me out you know I I
◼
►
know John pretty well nowadays and is a
◼
►
very very bright guy extremely bright
◼
►
guy but but that's really neat so the
◼
►
the show has like a kind of chemistry to
◼
►
it that would be impossible for obvious
◼
►
reasons on any other show which is like
◼
►
he's a very interesting writer who has
◼
►
interesting thoughts about life and this
◼
►
very good interviewer interviews him and
◼
►
they talk about one song on the album
◼
►
and then somebody covers it at the end
◼
►
yeah yeah I need it on iTunes you can go
◼
►
into all the songs like I think large
◼
►
and grace did the best ever death metal
◼
►
band from Denton like these great songs
◼
►
but anyway a recent episode was source
◼
►
decay which is a song that I really like
◼
►
it's a slightly unusual mountain good
◼
►
song for the time but long story short
◼
►
the reason I mentioned this is he said
◼
►
something you know how it is somebody
◼
►
says something that once you hear it you
◼
►
could God it's so obvious but I so
◼
►
and they're talking about the
◼
►
composition of the song a little bit of
◼
►
a looking into like how he writes a song
◼
►
kind of from the inside out where
◼
►
sometimes he starts with a little bit of
◼
►
a detail like okay this guy this guy
◼
►
goes to his old house to pick up the
◼
►
mail what are the letters that he sees
◼
►
and kind of builds out this story from
◼
►
there right and it's very I think a very
◼
►
interesting and kind of authentic way to
◼
►
write a song which is like telling a
◼
►
specific story with these specific
◼
►
starting with an outline of everything I
◼
►
wanted to say in the song right
◼
►
probably not the entirely dissimilar
◼
►
from how you write I'm guessing but but
◼
►
the guy said something so cool because
◼
►
name is Joseph he's he was talking to
◼
►
him about like well you know but what is
◼
►
what is this mean in this song like is
◼
►
this Jenny the same Jenny from the other
◼
►
song but Jenny in it and I don't
◼
►
remember his exact response but he's
◼
►
basically saying yeah I don't know I
◼
►
mean I don't know I could guess just as
◼
►
much as you could guess but here's the
◼
►
quote he said most people don't treasure
◼
►
most people want all the information I
◼
►
never want all the information and I was
◼
►
like oh man I shouldn't even tweet about
◼
►
this but I'm gonna because I thought
◼
►
that was so great I was like you know
◼
►
what I'm kind of the same way I love
◼
►
whilst I love being able to watch
◼
►
Netflix and look up the name of an
◼
►
actress in a scene that's no problem at
◼
►
all while it's great to me to be three
◼
►
seconds away from knowing drugs that
◼
►
interact with grapefruit while I'm on a
◼
►
podcast all great but I kind of I think
◼
►
about when I started this is not a slam
◼
►
on Star Wars but like I saw Star Wars
◼
►
when it was just Star Wars like a week
◼
►
after it came out I saw Star Wars I
◼
►
didn't understand what are these
◼
►
creatures what is going on I didn't know
◼
►
that George Lucas had a name for every
◼
►
single piece of equipment in every rock
◼
►
in the entire area I had basically two
◼
►
viewings of Star Wars the reviews about
◼
►
it and then maybe like a Fangoria
◼
►
magazine feature but like I didn't know
◼
►
I don't have like a DK encyclopedia of
◼
►
Star Wars and that was part of the fun I
◼
►
wanted to know everything I would just
◼
►
consume everything I could find about it
◼
►
but there wasn't that much to consume
◼
►
especially after the first one you know
◼
►
I'm saying it was six or eight months
◼
►
into the cycle before I mean they were
◼
►
sending out coupons for the action
◼
►
figures there were not big books about
◼
►
it that were official books anyway I
◼
►
trying to put that in front of you
◼
►
because I thought John Darnielle saying
◼
►
that was really smart I realize I'm the
◼
►
same way like I I don't need to know
◼
►
that there's an answer to like it you
◼
►
know in that song is that Warren Beatty
◼
►
like is that David David Branson it's
◼
►
like I don't know I don't know if I need
◼
►
to know I don't know if my enjoyment of
◼
►
that song will change one way or another
◼
►
if I know who you're so vain is about
◼
►
does it have to be about one of them
◼
►
maybe maybe that's a bad example but I
◼
►
like the not knowing and I like the fact
◼
►
that this is this is a this is a
◼
►
snapshot of a little bit of a story and
◼
►
if you can even know all the details of
◼
►
this especially if the person who wrote
◼
►
choose chose to not have a codex or a a
◼
►
rubric for being able to delineate what
◼
►
everything in the song means and I have
◼
►
to tell you that's one reason I love
◼
►
your songs I don't know what the fuck
◼
►
your songs are all about even when you
◼
►
explain them to them to me I don't
◼
►
understand though and I really like that
◼
►
I I and I want to just toss to you do
◼
►
you do you feel that way about do you
◼
►
like the not knowing yeah there are
◼
►
three three things that I that you're
◼
►
inspiring me to think about I want to
◼
►
say simultaneously the geographic
◼
►
version of this somebody posted
◼
►
something the other day that was like
◼
►
did you know that Google knows
◼
►
everything that you've ever done and
◼
►
everything you've ever thought and said
◼
►
and I was like oh no you know Google is
◼
►
gonna be Google's gonna know all this
◼
►
stuff about me and I went I followed the
◼
►
link and you know Google does know
◼
►
everything I've ever googled but that
◼
►
would be very confusing to an algorithm
◼
►
because it's like who are the you know
◼
►
who are the last five kings of Armenia
◼
►
it's like how are you gonna sell me but
◼
►
but Google supposedly knows everywhere
◼
►
I've been and I went to the thing where
◼
►
it said you know Google it basically
◼
►
knows everywhere you've been
◼
►
and I was kind of excited about it like
◼
►
where what what is this map that
◼
►
Google's gonna draw of all the places
◼
►
I've been like how exciting the truth is
◼
►
it's actually kind of disappointing
◼
►
you're like oh man Google I thought you
◼
►
would know all the places I went well
◼
►
and what's what is what was crazy was I
◼
►
got there and there was no information
◼
►
and then I realized that what I do I do
◼
►
Google where things are I googled the
◼
►
like is there traffic or whatever I
◼
►
Google routes to things but I look at
◼
►
the route and then I put my phone away
◼
►
I have never followed GPS instructions
◼
►
where it's like turn left like I put it
◼
►
away I look at it like I used to look at
◼
►
paper maps I get a sense of where it's
◼
►
telling me to go but I never follows the
◼
►
voice the machine and so Google doesn't
◼
►
because I never because I always turn it
◼
►
because I still don't want to know all
◼
►
the answers like I don't want to get
◼
►
there even if I'm late I don't want to
◼
►
get there via the computers best
◼
►
estimation of the fastest route I want
◼
►
to find it that's like that's a big big
◼
►
part of how I live in the world I want
◼
►
to find it I know it's there
◼
►
I know it's over there and I'm here in
◼
►
that case you do know that there is an
◼
►
answer that it does exist there is no
◼
►
Stuckey's somewhere best right I'm going
◼
►
to a place right I can I know where
◼
►
Spokane generally is I want to get there
◼
►
and not just be guided there by a by a
◼
►
tour guide you know by a by up I don't
◼
►
want to I don't want to ring in my nose
◼
►
and somebody yanking on a rope that's
◼
►
the geographic version but in response
◼
►
to your thing you're the real thing the
◼
►
John Danielle thing you know I think my
◼
►
greatest regret about the success of my
◼
►
band the and by success I mean the level
◼
►
of success and one of the things about
◼
►
I'm one of the things that complicates
◼
►
my relationship with John Darnielle
◼
►
personally is that he has and this is
◼
►
true of so many I mean so many musicians
◼
►
when you really get them down and get a
◼
►
few drinks in them and they're sitting
◼
►
around a campfire you can't help but say
◼
►
if I just had like I don't want to be
◼
►
Eddie Van Halen I just want the success
◼
►
of John Darnielle the amount and kind of
◼
►
success that he had and maybe maybe the
◼
►
steadiness the Admiralty admirable
◼
►
things about him is like just that he
◼
►
seems so steady about he just keeps
◼
►
doing the work he does the he does the
◼
►
work and you know when you get to know
◼
►
him personally he realize like oh it's
◼
►
part of his process of coping right to
◼
►
do the work like he's he is also
◼
►
struggling as we all are with a
◼
►
constellation of like contraindications
◼
►
of grapefruit and he well his way of
◼
►
getting through the year is is making
◼
►
music and putting it out and that's true
◼
►
of a lot of people I know and I have the
◼
►
opposite of fliction or
◼
►
some other you know I've ate too much
◼
►
grapefruit but you know guys like if you
◼
►
I mean I'm sure if you sat down with
◼
►
Carl Newman and said how do you how do
◼
►
you like your fame he'd say it's great
◼
►
but I would you know wouldn't it be nice
◼
►
if I had just the you know the fame of
◼
►
Jonathan Richmond or well I don't know
◼
►
who's anybody's comparison is but I
◼
►
believe it was it was you even Bono has
◼
►
a boss even Bono has a bond yeah but I
◼
►
would love to sit down with somebody who
◼
►
wanted to go through my music and talk
◼
►
about what things meant because I when I
◼
►
was writing it like everything I meant
◼
►
something by everything there was no
◼
►
I wasn't like well I need to get to the
◼
►
chorus so I'm just gonna say the same
◼
►
thing over again yeah I remember first
◼
►
reading this I feel like in the John
◼
►
chardee poetry book we said something
◼
►
like make every line tell yeah and and
◼
►
and and I think that's part of why I
◼
►
mean when I listen to great pop music
◼
►
and I'm and I realized that there are so
◼
►
many songs that I really love where the
◼
►
course is just like hey na na and I and
◼
►
I love that music but like I just I just
◼
►
filled the lyrics with meaning and I
◼
►
want somebody to care enough and I know
◼
►
that there are people that do but I
◼
►
didn't have that you know like Darnell
◼
►
and his band inspire a kind of cult II
◼
►
reverence you can get kind of a lot law
◼
►
of large numbers thing where they have
◼
►
enough fans that they probably would
◼
►
eventually get to meet some super smart
◼
►
and engage people that were super fans
◼
►
and would want to talk about it yeah and
◼
►
and there are those people about the
◼
►
long winters it's just that there's not
◼
►
an audience for their output right
◼
►
there's not like you could do a podcast
◼
►
about John darn Yellin there'd be an
◼
►
audience for it if there was a podcast
◼
►
about the long winters there wouldn't be
◼
►
necessarily very big audience for
◼
►
listening to those songs digested but
◼
►
you know I got a I got a I got an email
◼
►
a guy the other day who was like I teach
◼
►
literature I teach you know English
◼
►
literature in college and I wanted to oh
◼
►
and I asked my students to take your
◼
►
line from the song which is a seven I
◼
►
think where where I say every eyelash is
◼
►
a picutre a wire and he was like you
◼
►
know and I had to explain to people what
◼
►
I just explained to them what tickets
◼
►
were because they didn't know what
◼
►
pickets were but then we talked about it
◼
►
and I was like oh I was just I was
◼
►
laying there in my in my little you know
◼
►
cuddle cozy bunny suit like oh my god
◼
►
someone somewhere is looking at a line
◼
►
that I wrote but it meant so much to me
◼
►
that that someone would do that and you
◼
►
know what has been true the last half a
◼
►
dozen years is the people that listen to
◼
►
this show and the many attempts that
◼
►
people have made to make a codex to make
◼
►
a an encyclopaedia of of everything
◼
►
we've talked about and all the different
◼
►
cross references and stuff you know that
◼
►
really like all those attempts even
◼
►
though none of them has really succeeded
◼
►
and become the definitive one and I
◼
►
think there are there are a half a dozen
◼
►
orphan projects where yeah yeah there
◼
►
are people who have very very kindly
◼
►
taken a stab at it for sure
◼
►
yeah yeah and it's a lot to just a lot
◼
►
to take on that thing is really to me
◼
►
that's really useful I mean there's also
◼
►
our friends show underscored David Smith
◼
►
has done a wonderful thing where he does
◼
►
voice recognition not why don't you call
◼
►
it but he basically turns the show into
◼
►
searchable words so if you want to find
◼
►
I think stuff like that's great for
◼
►
finding where a bit appeared but like
◼
►
God please don't study it all too
◼
►
carefully well that there's that but
◼
►
also like I mean there's the impulse to
◼
►
try and find like our witticisms or our
◼
►
you know the first time some you know
◼
►
somebody said this some of that and and
◼
►
like the stories that the big the big
◼
►
like stories the capital letter stories
◼
►
but you know you and I have travel a lot
◼
►
of ground and we you know and we kid and
◼
►
then our fans kid back at us and then we
◼
►
kid back at them about helping people
◼
►
but you know there is license there is a
◼
►
trove at least I mean and I don't mean
◼
►
like necessarily even a treasure trove
◼
►
but just a trove it might just be a
◼
►
trove of dirty diapers but but it's a
◼
►
troll yeah it's like a trench is a
◼
►
treasure on to the trove trove calm
◼
►
masks is your big customer hiding in
◼
►
your company's email so ask they're
◼
►
considering your company's email as a
◼
►
trove of qualified leads like on
◼
►
somebody's just sitting on the domain
◼
►
trove calm wants to find the Glengarry
◼
►
leads in your company's email it's
◼
►
already there they do not pregnant are
◼
►
wanting let's talk about something put
◼
►
that culture gap but in terms of like of
◼
►
not having the answers you know as much
◼
►
time we spend a lot less time solving
◼
►
problems than we do describing them and
◼
►
a lot less time even describing problems
◼
►
than just inhabiting them like a furry
◼
►
costume yeah and I think probably a
◼
►
portion of our problems aren't even
◼
►
aren't even obvious to us we have people
◼
►
that seen the show they're like you need
◼
►
to take the subject and replace it with
◼
►
the object you're gonna need an
◼
►
associate degree in your own life to
◼
►
staying what you don't fucking get about
◼
►
what you don't understand about yourself
◼
►
but like Darnell is super wise about you
◼
►
know about a lot but there but he like
◼
►
anybody has blind spots there are
◼
►
certain aspects of darn yel that he
◼
►
isn't wise about not just as a writer
◼
►
you know or maybe principally not as a
◼
►
writer then it's the same with me like
◼
►
there's a lot of the there was a review
◼
►
one time in the Salt Lake paper of
◼
►
ultimatum one ultimatum first came out
◼
►
and this reviewer really like was mad at
◼
►
the song ultimatum in particular and you
◼
►
know and gave this kind of excoriating
◼
►
reveals why he's dreamy UK manic score
◼
►
you any review which was not a negative
◼
►
review it was a review that said this is
◼
►
a beautiful song and well recorded by a
◼
►
very interesting band and I disagree
◼
►
with it and I was like go on you know
◼
►
like I put a put a big napkin in the
◼
►
front of my shirt and tucked myself in
◼
►
and I was like tell me more and they had
◼
►
listened to it enough to understand the
◼
►
viewpoint of it and be mad at the
◼
►
viewpoint which meant so much to me
◼
►
because it was the rare interview or I'm
◼
►
sorry the rare review of a record that
◼
►
took that approach you know reviews are
◼
►
just like wow this band sounds like that
◼
►
band and their third song is a really
◼
►
nice jangle pop blah blah blah but very
◼
►
few people are like the viewpoint of the
◼
►
narrator in this song I find it does not
◼
►
like is not life-giving or whatever I
◼
►
she'll be bore and and what they were
◼
►
mad about was that the you know the
◼
►
viewpoint of the narrator and ultimatum
◼
►
is is your in a way you're kind of your
◼
►
cowboy the one that doesn't want to be a
◼
►
villager and but also kind of you know
◼
►
wants to hang around the village and get
◼
►
free drinks and they were and they felt
◼
►
like it wasn't hopeful that there was
◼
►
that the that the narrator himself
◼
►
should try harder oh it was like yeah
◼
►
man yeah yeah yeah take a stand take a
◼
►
stand against this this this thinly
◼
►
fictionalized character so did you like
◼
►
it when people engage well obviously
◼
►
yeah well I mean I don't know I don't I
◼
►
don't think I wasn't trying to provoke
◼
►
you I just think there are some people
◼
►
who think well you know here's the thing
◼
►
I said and I said it and like if you
◼
►
really understood it you wouldn't need
◼
►
to do all this parsing it's like stop
◼
►
stop trying to understand this thing
◼
►
that's really easy to understand yeah
◼
►
that's the Kurt Cobain model of like of
◼
►
ya know obviously I mean I think I think
◼
►
it's like that's not my nature right to
◼
►
be like I said it it's in the lyrics
◼
►
like no no no I want to discuss it
◼
►
I've thought about I've thought about
◼
►
writing down like a like a like a line
◼
►
by line exegesis of my song lyrics I
◼
►
just don't know who that audience would
◼
►
be I wish you wouldn't know know just
◼
►
because I mean you know I don't know I
◼
►
mean like I like it not being known well
◼
►
let me turn around a little bit so well
◼
►
you you do you try to have every line
◼
►
tell everything is in there for a reason
◼
►
everything it's in the song is in the
◼
►
song do you feel like there are romaine
◼
►
mysteries and unknowns in songs to you
◼
►
like if something as general as like oh
◼
►
I'm not really sure who that was about
◼
►
or like I'm not really sure what this
◼
►
song is saying like your song is very
◼
►
much even if I don't always understand
◼
►
the POV I know they have a POV like it's
◼
►
it's there's somebody somebody's in a
◼
►
situation and a lot of the songs but
◼
►
like ours you feel like there are still
◼
►
unknown corners of your own stuff that
◼
►
you would you would benefit from having
◼
►
people for lack of a better word
◼
►
explained to you oh oh they all I mean
◼
►
there's the exegesis would not be me
◼
►
explaining them as much as me saying
◼
►
here are the possibilities is this a lot
◼
►
I guess is is more is more my
◼
►
relationship to them because they are
◼
►
because they are point of view based
◼
►
rather than theirs you know it's not
◼
►
like this is a song about about John F
◼
►
Kennedy but I but I changed his name or
◼
►
whatever you know that they're all about
◼
►
everything I don't know I I I just
◼
►
worked so hard on them and and I feel
◼
►
like I feel like they're often just it's
◼
►
the problem I guess of any writer where
◼
►
you put it up against other pop music
◼
►
and some pop music and again Missa pop
◼
►
music I love isn't really about anything
◼
►
and yet I'm also working in that
◼
►
vernacular so I mean I was listening to
◼
►
toboni em last night as you do and you
◼
►
know boney m has a song called daddy
◼
►
cool and it has three lyrics I don't
◼
►
think anybody M song has more than about
◼
►
15 lyrics boney em yeah but you know
◼
►
like for instance my my good pals in the
◼
►
band Band of Horses who have that song I
◼
►
think I've referred to before where the
◼
►
when I was alone is there a ghost in my
◼
►
house when I was alone is there a ghost
◼
►
in my house and it's a it's a hell of a
◼
►
line it conveyed a lot to me but that's
◼
►
kind of the main lyric in the song I'm
◼
►
sorry it's like one of a very few lyrics
◼
►
in the song and it's a more popular song
◼
►
than any song I ever wrote but it
◼
►
doesn't have any it's not it's not even
◼
►
like the two songs are not like let's
◼
►
take that song and any song I wrote
◼
►
there's no there's no lyrical
◼
►
commonality in terms of intent yeah
◼
►
right the lyrics of his song and it's
◼
►
great because if you google the lyrics
◼
►
of is there a ghost by Band of Horses
◼
►
there's a whole lyric sheet it's really
◼
►
long and it says I could sleep I could
◼
►
sleep I could sleep I could sleep when I
◼
►
lived alone as there are ghosts in my
◼
►
house I could sleep I could sleep I
◼
►
could sleep I can sleep and that's
◼
►
that's those are the only lyrics in the
◼
►
tune and so so it's like I don't know
◼
►
who-who was I writing for I guess you
◼
►
write in terms of like when you were
◼
►
composing songs yeah like who like
◼
►
listening to the lyrics of John
◼
►
Darnielle songs it is it's baked into it
◼
►
because the songs are so lyric driven
◼
►
there's not a lot of keyboard parts
◼
►
there's not a lot of he doesn't
◼
►
quadruple the harmonies on the chorus is
◼
►
it so yeah he's got a boom box and the
◼
►
old days there yeah you're there to
◼
►
listen to the lyrics it's it's like
◼
►
Billy Bragg its folk music
◼
►
um I mean you know a lot of songs that I
◼
►
like I don't even know I know what John
◼
►
you Chandra you call it but like they're
◼
►
they whether it's the Beatles or you or
◼
►
whomever I like a song that has a sense
◼
►
of urgency to it and it doesn't have to
◼
►
be urgency in terms of necessarily being
◼
►
up beating high-energy or whatever or
◼
►
super sad but like but a lot of the
◼
►
songs I like and remember and and think
◼
►
about there's something there's
◼
►
something some message of some kind
◼
►
there's some feeling even that has to be
◼
►
put across like there's I like you know
◼
►
I've got to tell if they see in acting
◼
►
like you know the one of the basic
◼
►
things to tell you and acting is that
◼
►
like remember everybody on stage at a
◼
►
given time wants something right they
◼
►
and maybe there's other things to it
◼
►
maybe there's their secrets that they
◼
►
have that they don't want people to know
◼
►
but there's something that everybody
◼
►
wants out of a scene like if you if
◼
►
you're not sure what to do with the
◼
►
character think about what it is not
◼
►
just quote-unquote motivation but like
◼
►
what is the most important to that
◼
►
person in the room what are they trying
◼
►
to hide what are they trying to show how
◼
►
are they are they trying to deceive but
◼
►
like everybody up there wants something
◼
►
and how if you as an actor you have to
◼
►
connect with what that feeling is and I
◼
►
feel like a lot of songs UPS is in to
◼
►
derail but I feel like in terms of like
◼
►
who it's for I'm not always sure but
◼
►
like you know there's just there's
◼
►
something I've got to tell you and this
◼
►
this is how I'm doing it to somebody
◼
►
even if it's an imagined person yeah for
◼
►
the Beatles a lot of the early stuff was
◼
►
that they're just disappointed in women
◼
►
I had a kid go back and listen to a lot
◼
►
of early and middle Beatles which I
◼
►
loved but I was realizing how many songs
◼
►
I want to say just John songs but Paul
◼
►
song was so many of John songs in
◼
►
particular are just about like how
◼
►
misunderstood he is by women but he's be
◼
►
puts it really well but you know I mean
◼
►
something like I want even something as
◼
►
simple seemingly simple as I want to
◼
►
hold your hand like there's obviously an
◼
►
extreme sense of urgency to that yeah in
◼
►
that case you know who's being addressed
◼
►
in that but sure but when are you
◼
►
talking about who you write the songs in
◼
►
order to reach as an audience or like
◼
►
who the song is addressing oh no I mean
◼
►
this my songs are all addressing the
◼
►
same people that John Lennon's songs
◼
►
were addressing I was just a little bit
◼
►
older when I was writing them so it
◼
►
wasn't quite not what yeah I mean there
◼
►
it was all the same confusion just just
◼
►
like quadrupled by an extra decade of
◼
►
feeling confused but no it's like it's a
◼
►
you know I I have a desire still to be I
◼
►
mean we all have a desire to be
◼
►
appreciated appreciate her to be heard
◼
►
well I'm not so worried about being
◼
►
heard you know what I mean like I if if
◼
►
I if I go into the great sleep if I go
◼
►
gently into that good night and don't
◼
►
feel like my cowl my Yelp was was
◼
►
registered you know whatever it's not
◼
►
it's not I don't feel under heard but
◼
►
but no like like when you do when you
◼
►
try to do something with subtlety and I
◼
►
think this is a this is a lot of the a
◼
►
lot of times a problem for anybody
◼
►
working in any medium if you try to do
◼
►
something with subtlety and then you see
◼
►
things that are done unsubtle II succeed
◼
►
and you feel like oh you know I like
◼
►
worked really hard to make this opaque
◼
►
and then somebody comes along it's just
◼
►
like shake it shake it yeah people are
◼
►
yeah I want to shake it and you're like
◼
►
fuck just tearing their shirt open and
◼
►
waving them around yeah you're like shit
◼
►
you know like who is my audience if not
◼
►
everybody if if I'm not just like shake
◼
►
it if I'm like super super like making
◼
►
all these tiny little beads when you
◼
►
when you do it your dream is that you're
◼
►
gonna be reaching the same people that
◼
►
you're gonna be reaching people like
◼
►
yourself who are looking for that in
◼
►
other stuff like I'm trying to
◼
►
that's like the kefir for a lock I
◼
►
didn't know I had right right Oh exactly
◼
►
that exactly that but then I think about
◼
►
it it's like oh when I could finally
◼
►
understand Michael stipes lyrics I was
◼
►
really disappointed it was a lot better
◼
►
when he when you couldn't tell what he
◼
►
was saying and I what I wanted to be was
◼
►
I wanted to be as I wanted to create the
◼
►
feeling that Michael Stipe created in me
◼
►
except when you got into it you found
◼
►
there was something there instead of
◼
►
just you know like nothing or or partial
◼
►
whatever it was that he was like it
◼
►
suddenly just happened to be like a
◼
►
beautiful splatter pattern yeah I mean
◼
►
he was obviously creating a super
◼
►
appealing vignettes yeah yeah but also
◼
►
yeah it was very I always I've talked
◼
►
about this ad nauseam in so many places
◼
►
but you know the ability to create a
◼
►
mood yeah and a feeling a very poetic
◼
►
way where like the sound of the words
◼
►
like when you said before like a picket
◼
►
or a wire don't worry pick it or a wire
◼
►
uh-huh it's also that like think about
◼
►
those two words how the contrast can
◼
►
sound like one's kind of sharp and one's
◼
►
a little bit more round and like that's
◼
►
that's why we like Dylan Thomas is like
◼
►
as the words the way the words sound is
◼
►
part of the meaning and like there's
◼
►
meaning under the meaning but then
◼
►
there's also meaning in the sounds and
◼
►
people get different things from that
◼
►
but like you know like you were you were
◼
►
just quoting do not go channel but you
◼
►
know the force of through the green fuse
◼
►
like there's just these these things
◼
►
that he says and you're like that's just
◼
►
a bunch of words but it's very
◼
►
meaningful the way those words sound and
◼
►
yeah and it's nice when you dig in a
◼
►
little further and go like oh there's
◼
►
also there's a pattern to how to the
◼
►
syllables there's a pattern to the to
◼
►
the rhymes but you don't have to know
◼
►
any of that to feel strangely
◼
►
emotionally moved by something even if
◼
►
you don't understand everything in a
◼
►
shakespeare monologue like you're still
◼
►
gonna get some kind of a feeling out of
◼
►
it do you remember when you first got
◼
►
did you were you into pavement very and
◼
►
those I was summer babe was my first
◼
►
favorite pavement song the effect of
◼
►
pavement in terms of creating a mood and
◼
►
information and also being and also
◼
►
seeming to be full of maybe more
◼
►
information than was actually there
◼
►
you know like the pavement was such a
◼
►
they were so sincere but also just
◼
►
mostly smarmy it's like so smarmy but
◼
►
there was something really poignant
◼
►
about American life in their songs yep
◼
►
and and really smart turns of phrase but
◼
►
also just thrown off like in a way that
◼
►
that suggested like either that they
◼
►
didn't care or that half the guys in the
◼
►
band didn't understand what half the
◼
►
other with the other half of my guys
◼
►
were talking about but it didn't matter
◼
►
I mean there was so much going on in
◼
►
that that influenced me I don't think
◼
►
anybody in Seattle wants to acknowledge
◼
►
what an influence pavement was because
◼
►
we were making our own thing up here
◼
►
you're not so it's like it's like you're
◼
►
not supposed to be into something that's
◼
►
that cheeky right but it was it you know
◼
►
it's very influential because it feels
◼
►
impossible to duplicate in a way like
◼
►
Weezer feels very easy to duplicate you
◼
►
need that much exceed sis but like
◼
►
here's one I was dressed for success but
◼
►
success it never comes and I'm the only
◼
►
one who laughs at your jokes when they
◼
►
are so bad they get to the chorus and
◼
►
all the sterols striking it defends an
◼
►
empty dock you cast away and reign upon
◼
►
your forehead where the mists for hire
◼
►
if it's just too clear let's spend our
◼
►
last quarter stance randomly go down to
◼
►
the outlet once again that's in the way
◼
►
you know painted portraits of minions
◼
►
and slaves crotch mavens in one night
◼
►
plays and they're the only ones who
◼
►
laugh at your jokes when they are so bad
◼
►
and the jokes are always bad come join
◼
►
us in a prayer will be waiting waiting
◼
►
where everything's ending here that's
◼
►
named a song here but it's very
◼
►
portentous when you listen to it's very
◼
►
the tempo and everything it's you know
◼
►
for one of their early I guess maybe
◼
►
they got cheekier as they went but like
◼
►
a little silly but like I always found
◼
►
that song very moving I don't know what
◼
►
the song is about but I always found it
◼
►
very moving it's the same it's the same
◼
►
with a lot of Nirvana where you're like
◼
►
what the what the hell are you talking
◼
►
about but but it's it conveys it's very
◼
►
the atmosphere is appropriate like the
◼
►
atmosphere communicates and the lyrical
◼
►
atmosphere communicates what you want it
◼
►
to it's not just yeah this is your seven
◼
►
sided lighthouse made of dreams to get
◼
►
all of that stuff together I mean you
◼
►
know for the lyrics to be meaningful
◼
►
that a lot of people go into a song in
◼
►
their lyrics people we had a whole
◼
►
episode of the show I do with Syracuse
◼
►
about this where we talked about your
◼
►
music alot but like there's this whole
◼
►
thing of like diving straight into what
◼
►
the lyrics mean but like to me there's a
◼
►
whole like giant play going on here
◼
►
there's the set dressing and there's the
◼
►
characters and there's like there's so
◼
►
much going on and like this little
◼
►
little spots about what's said and
◼
►
what's not said there's so much to it
◼
►
that goes beyond just like what did the
◼
►
lyrics mean like there's a whole
◼
►
evocation that can be happening in a
◼
►
song that even plays against the lyrics
◼
►
I mean it's you know I don't know I I
◼
►
like music well I know I'm me too and I
◼
►
and I just I wonder sometimes I wonder
◼
►
whether podcasting with you and being
◼
►
and writing articles and stuff whether
◼
►
it it did something it took away some of
◼
►
the universe building that I had within
◼
►
the songs just in that I had expressed a
◼
►
view point in the in those albums and I
◼
►
was so desperate to be to like be
◼
►
interviewed and to be able to explain
◼
►
not the worldview of the songs because I
◼
►
felt like that's that that was fine you
◼
►
know like I'm not I don't need to go in
◼
►
back into the songs but I want to talk
◼
►
about all this other stuff too and as
◼
►
time goes on like does it detract from
◼
►
the from the universe from the from the
◼
►
Game of Thrones universe if if george RR
◼
►
martin is out there also talking about
◼
►
how he feels about vending machines and
◼
►
so forth but I mean he can't can't put
◼
►
the podcast back in the bottle no
◼
►
bottles in the bottle to put the genie
◼
►
back in the vending machine
◼
►
what the fuck it can't be known