Hello Internet Episode One Hundred
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jokes and the fact that they joke about
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a thing means that it's not serious and
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so that they're contributing in this way
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like I think that's a path down towards
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crazy town and the only result then is
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like Oh everybody has to just say things
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that are perfectly acceptable online
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like the other thing is I also just feel
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bad for this guy because his whole life
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has been on hold while this trial has
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been waiting to happen
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and it's been like a year and a half or
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something before it has actually gone to
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trial and this is a thing where I have
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these bad feelings about the Internet
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where it's like these little storms
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happen and it's like a person becomes an
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unperson even before anything official
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has occurred so even though this guy
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hasn't gone to trial it's like Oh his
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whole life has been destroyed for the
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past year and a half while this is
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occurring because nobody wants to hire
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the guy who is waiting for his trial
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about inciting hate on the Internet to
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go through and it's like Oh even if he
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wasn't ever punished like he has still
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been totally punished in the meantime
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it's like a terrifying thing in society
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that that can happen it's like you get
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swept up in something and so much of
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your life is destroyed and even if in
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the end it's like oh we're gonna
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overturn that case and we're not gonna
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put you in prison and don't mind about
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it it's like well the internet never
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forgets and now no one will ever want to
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associate with you because you are this
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person even though like many people
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don't think you did anything wrong
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like it just it's terrible for UK law
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and for people who make anything on the
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in the UK I'm not condoning it but I do
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wonder in the back of my mind if it
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could be the making of him because he's
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a pretty funny guy he could become like
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a really funny successful youtuber now
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again I'm not saying he wanted the
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attention but now that has happened I
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hope it becomes the making of him for
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his sake even if like everything turns
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up roses for him in the future somehow
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it doesn't change the fact that it's
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like okay well who are we gonna bring up
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next on this obscenity law just start
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picking youtubers in the UK very early
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you said like so many people who are
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leaving comments on reddit hmm I don't
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know it's like such an incredible
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overreaction do you have this fear
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because you're worried that it'll affect
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you one day because quite often I
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thought your fears boil down to that
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somehow lucky you skate one day someone
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will take something you've done in the
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wrong context and you'll end up in hot
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water or you really just being quite you
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know Noble here and just worried about
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the world in general I don't know how to
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say this very well in the context of
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this conversation because we've just
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been talking about Nazis right but the
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ability to express thoughts is extremely
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important and the power to suppress what
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thoughts people are allowed to express
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is terrifyingly powerful it worries me
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on a society level right like when you
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ask Oh am I personally concerned not
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really I produce the most g-rated
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content in the world and the podcast has
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a million hours of context around it and
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I don't think aside from our opening up
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the wound of the necessary lies of
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society like I don't think we say
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anything that's terrible on the show so
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I'm not personally concerned but I I
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really do feel that there's something
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like dangerously corrosive here I always
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try to stay away from specific political
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examples because I don't think that that
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is very instructive but I will mention
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one that came up like in a conversation
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with someone so this is like in an
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American context but the conversation
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was around the idea of this person
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basically wanted to make it illegal to
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deny the fact that climate change was
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occurring all right they're like you
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shouldn't be able to express this idea
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online it should be against the law hmm
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the reasoning was it's so potentially
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harmful spreading misinformation around
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this may be the end of the species right
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maybe the end of all life on Earth
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they're like this idea that there's no
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climate change is so terrible we should
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put it into law that people are not
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allowed to express it
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okay that's absolutely terrifying even
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if you agree with that that opens the
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door to the idea that like you're
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seeding power to a government to tell
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you what you're allowed to think hey
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news flash your team isn't in charge
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right now so how would you feel if a law
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was passed that said oh you're not
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allowed to express the idea that the
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climate is changing then suddenly is
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like oh I don't like that idea at all
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like yeah of course this is why like you
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have to defend the ability to express
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ideas and thoughts in the broadest
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possible form and so I feel like any
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incursion into this territory is just
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like a big danger yeah so that's why
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like I feel these stories very strongly
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and it's like yes I will agree with you
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like there are tiny areas that we can
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carve out direct incitement to violence
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like attacks on a particular person but
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even then I feel like we need to define
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that very tightly what do we mean by
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that it's like there's a cleanliness
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monster that is going through the world
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making everything have to be clean and
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safe we can't even make jokes about the
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Nazis because the Nazis are not clean
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and safe right so let's just put some
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antiseptic over this and just make it go
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away all right and I think it's bad like
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I think it's really bad for society and
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there's something about it that just
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seems like it's getting worse and the
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producers is a perfect example psycho
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fifteen years after World War two we can
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make an entire movie that makes fun of
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the Nazis but 60 years after World War
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two jokes about the Nazis are forbidden
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they're so dangerous we can't possibly
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even speak them aloud I don't think
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that's good for society yeah here's a
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topic rady where I feel like I need
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pushback where am I wrong here or do you
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agree I do fundamentally agree so I
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don't want to be the good person who now
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gets up here and talks against free
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speech the only thing that I don't like
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about the way you argue this point it
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doesn't mean I disagree with the point
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it's just I don't like your stylistic
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argument and that is I always feel like
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the people who are like the scumbags of
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the world who would putting all the scum
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out there that I hate and the dirty
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stuff I acknowledge there
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right to do it right so I'm on your side
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but I sometimes feel you kind of clothed
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them in righteous garments when you talk
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about defending like their right to
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express thoughts and ideas like this is
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just people taking a dump everywhere and
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I feel like you're kind of using this
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argument of let's have a free debate and
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you make a lot of these people sound
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better than they are I don't deny their
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right to exist and do these things but I
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wish you didn't make them sound so noble
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yeah I mean the reason I talk about
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thoughts and ideas is because I feel
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like I'm trying to keep it
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generic yeah but I think by doing that
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you're bringing a lot of scumbags into
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the fold of nice people yeah but that's
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the problem of letting people express
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all of their thoughts and ideas here it
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is guess what some people have terrible
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thoughts and ideas I don't think these
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people were taking a dump all over the
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place are expressing thoughts or ideas
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they dislike taking a dump but they are
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thoughts and ideas they are concepts
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expressed with language I don't think
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that there is a way to draw a circle
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where we can say we all agree these
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patterns of words are good and these
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patterns of words are terrible no no I
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think we can do that I just don't think
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we can ban them I think it's fair to sit
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around and start weighing things and
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saying that's a good idea that's an
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interesting thought and idea that's a
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smart thing you said you there who just
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wrote you're gay that's not a good
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thought or idea that's not constructive
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you're an idiot but you're allowed to do
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it like that's a perfect example right
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like the canonical youtube comment
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you're you are gay yeah perhaps there
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has been no YouTube comment more
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frequently said than that one right
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right and it's like yeah I'll sit here
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and agree with you like 100 percent like
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it adds nothing it's no good it's not
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but I think it's too easy in a
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conversation to pick a particular thing
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that we can say like oh we all agree
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but if you're trying to craft laws I
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think it's really hard to craft a law
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that can define what do we mean by this
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and that then as an additional layer can
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forced in a reasonable way and count
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Acula is a good example of this we're
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okay if this is the law of the land in
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the United Kingdom how is it that like
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just this one guy got swept up by this
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law and meanwhile like there are actual
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Nazis like expressing actual Nazi
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thoughts and that's cool like okay well
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then you have some kind of bizarre
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selective enforcement of this I'd love
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to know the story behind this there must
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be a bigger story it is amazing isn't it
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this guy got done with all the other
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stuff that's out there it's weird I
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think it's because it was a viral video
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right so we're just like it becomes a
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bunch of attention and then someone
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files a complaint and like now it starts
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getting run up the chain I feel like for
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my old days as a teacher I understand
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very well the concept of like a small
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thing the instant someone makes an
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official complaint about it it like oh
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god like now it's going to be run up the
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chain and like no one can stop the
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machine that keeps making this a bigger
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deal than it actually is right even if
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no one involved in the chain wants to
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keep escalating it there's an incentive
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at every level to keep escalating it so
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I feel like this can just be like the
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random weather of the Internet yeah but
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so that's why I do want to be clear like
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I'm not saying like everybody has an
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equal contribution to the conversation
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because obviously they don't some people
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are really smart and they can contribute
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more to conversations some people are
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really stupid and they don't have very
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much to add at all anyway you just as I
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said I agree with you you just asked for
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some pushback and my pushback is the way
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you frame your argument I think cloaks
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these people in garments of
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righteousness that they're entitled to
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the garments but I just feel a bit like
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let me just say the reason that I do say
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it is thoughts and ideas is it just like
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when I made those videos about the
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voting systems a long time ago that
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there's a reason I don't talk about
◼
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specific political parties because as
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►
soon as you talk about specific
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►
political parties the only thing people
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want is whatever voting system gets
◼
►
their guys into office right that's the
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►
one that seems the most fair and you
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need to have a system where everyone can
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agree that the election is fair before
◼
►
the election takes place when I'm
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talking about thoughts and ideas in the
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public realm we need to talk about them
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in the most abstract way because if we
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start talking about like what do we do
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with good ideas and what do we do with
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bad ideas like the conversation about
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how do you manage conversation is
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already poisoned because everybody has
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in their own head like the idea of what
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a bad idea is and then so we should do
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bad things to bad ideas
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like the idea of like Oh which side of a
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debate do you want to not allow to speak
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so that's why I try to talk about it in
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general terms because I think that is
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the only sensible way to try to think
◼
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through the topic and yeah of course
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whenever you're discussing freedom of
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speech and you are defending it you are
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by definition having to defend the most
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fringe of fringe people that's just the
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nature of this conversation and I think
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it's why free speech defenders are often
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at a bit of a disadvantage because like
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by necessity you you're like the guy who
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has to defend the Nazi joke when it
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would be much easier to just join in
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with a sanctimonious crowd and be like
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he should have phrased it differently
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like I don't appreciate that joke at all
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and I don't think it's good for the
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world I do think he should have phrased
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it but he's very good how many more
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people do you have to see step on the
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landmine before you think hmm
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maybe I won't walk into that minefield
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►
how many people do you have to see get
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blown up to take it in a slightly
◼
►
adjacent way I'm reading a book which is
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►
about the court case that happened with
◼
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Gawker a few years ago with the Hulk
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►
Hogan sex tape and Peter Thiel was
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►
funding this lawsuit against Gawker it's
◼
►
an interesting book so far but part of
◼
►
what they're talking about as well is
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this effect that like gossip columns
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have on people's ability to think in
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►
public and it's like oh people start
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worrying when there's a gossip column
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►
that's going after the technology sector
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that it it naturally has people close
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►
ranks much further than they otherwise
◼
►
would like they're much more reluctant
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►
to express any ideas in public because
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►
they're worried about it being twisted
◼
►
because like that's what the gossip
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►
column does and that's what I mean when
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I say like I think there's something
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dangerous in this kind of
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that is like even if you're a million
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►
miles from making Nazi jokes like you
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►
said it's you feel like ah the boundary
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►
of acceptable conversation has been
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►
moved and so if I want to stay far from
◼
►
that boundary I need to move even
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►
farther in to only acceptable things you
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know so it's like I want to stay a
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hundred metres away from that boundary
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and we keep pulling that boundary and
◼
►
further and further it has more of an
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►
effect than just the people at the very
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►
edge and I just don't think that that's
◼
►
good for public conversation fair enough
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►
sorry about that I didn't mean to rant
◼
►
for so long you've passed my guy this
◼
►
whole time I've been ranting Brady to
◼
►
the dead fish on the H I love me for my
◼
►
computer screen I never close that image
◼
►
it's still there hello internets this
◼
►
audio sounds terrible because I have
◼
►
just gotten into a hotel room I'm on the
◼
►
last leg of a multi leg trip and without
◼
►
my regular audio equipment and you know
◼
►
when you're traveling it's very easy to
◼
►
find yourself without the stuff that you
◼
►
really need including for example your
◼
►
computer files you grab your laptop and
◼
►
you go but you know what you forgot that
◼
►
thing that's sitting back at home on
◼
►
your desktop what are you gonna do in
◼
►
that scenario well under most
◼
►
circumstances you're just screwed
◼
►
there's nothing that you can do but if
◼
►
you have taken our advice on hello
◼
►
internet and installed Backblaze then
◼
►
everything is fine because Backblaze in
◼
►
addition to being the backup service
◼
►
that you should obviously have on your
◼
►
computer will also allow you anywhere in
◼
►
the world to access any of your files
◼
►
and speaking from experience not only
◼
►
has back lays on multiple times totally
◼
►
saved my bacon with lost files back lays
◼
►
has been super helpful for grabbing a
◼
►
file that I just saved in a random spot
◼
►
on my hard drive it didn't really think
◼
►
about and then later needed when I was
◼
►
away from the computer
◼
►
I'm going to tell you that's if you're
◼
►
sitting in front of your computer and
◼
►
you do not have Backblaze installed on
◼
►
that computer right now you need to open
◼
►
up your web browser open it up and go to
◼
►
Backblaze comm slash hello Internet and
◼
►
get started there really isn't any
◼
►
better service for your Mac or PC to
◼
►
just take care of your backups and allow
◼
►
you remote access and it's just five
◼
►
dollars a month five dollars a month for
◼
►
peace of mind so please go to Backblaze
◼
►
comm slash hello Internet
◼
►
do it for your sake so you can sleep
◼
►
better at night do it for my sake so
◼
►
I'll sleep better at night knowing that
◼
►
your files are protected so once again
◼
►
go to Backblaze comm slash hello
◼
►
internet that lets Backblaze know that
◼
►
you came from us and it will get you a
◼
►
fully featured 15-day free trial for
◼
►
your computer that's Backblaze comm
◼
►
slash hello Internet alright enjoy the
◼
►
rest of the show I I gotta get going so
◼
►
there was a full-page ad in my copy of
◼
►
The Times Sunday Times this morning
◼
►
Mark Zuckerberg kind of apologizing to
◼
►
the world but in that kind of in a
◼
►
weaselly way where he's not really
◼
►
apologizing is also blaming other people
◼
►
right like the way a spider who's
◼
►
pretending to be a person would
◼
►
apologize he's got a terrible signature
◼
►
by the way Matt psycho does he mmm well
◼
►
that's because spiders riding inside of
◼
►
human suits have a really hard time with
◼
►
that finger dexterity that's an
◼
►
interesting theory because it is kind of
◼
►
spider like in fact I took a photo of it
◼
►
to send you so I'll show you maybe this
◼
►
is wrong maybe this is me bullying a
◼
►
public person but I always just get the
◼
►
feeling that Mark Zuckerberg is like
◼
►
there's a spider riding around in a
◼
►
robot that's shaped like Mark Zuckerberg
◼
►
this is the feeling like whenever he
◼
►
talks whenever he moves it's like
◼
►
there's not a person in there there's a
◼
►
spider in there here's my question all
◼
►
right Facebook is in a new controversy
◼
►
to do with data and stuff like that we
◼
►
can talk about it in a minute if you
◼
►
but my overall question is because this
◼
►
this is gonna keep happening to Facebook
◼
►
because they're a company that seems to
◼
►
cause a lot of controversy is Facebook
◼
►
too big to fail now is facebook gonna be
◼
►
it's interesting if you'd asked me a
◼
►
month ago I would have said no that I
◼
►
think Facebook is too big to fail but
◼
►
Facebook has done an amazing job of
◼
►
collecting some of the worst PR in the
◼
►
world in a short period of time just at
◼
►
the wrong time zeitgeist why's that
◼
►
people are super receptive to it like I
◼
►
think the idea that hey maybe all of the
◼
►
social media is bad for us was really
◼
►
coming to fruition earlier in the year
◼
►
and then it's like right around that
◼
►
time Facebook had some of the worst PR
◼
►
in the world and then they have this
◼
►
most recent scandal it just might be a
◼
►
perfect storm of things to drive a stake
◼
►
through the heart of Facebook but that
◼
►
being said I think even if it were to
◼
►
happen we are at a technological point
◼
►
in time where there is always going to
◼
►
be a natural monopoly for a social
◼
►
network if you strike Facebook down
◼
►
something else will just grow up and be
◼
►
stronger in its place and will be
◼
►
functionally equivalent to Facebook I
◼
►
mean there has to be one doesn't there
◼
►
for a social network to actually work
◼
►
the way it should they sort of has to be
◼
►
one doesn't there otherwise we're not
◼
►
I am really convinced that it's not just
◼
►
Facebook I think that the big tech
◼
►
companies exist in no small part because
◼
►
we're at a technological point where
◼
►
there are these natural monopolies I
◼
►
think that search and video are a kind
◼
►
of natural monopolies that Google has
◼
►
that there will be a super big video
◼
►
site I think it's almost inevitable I
◼
►
almost think that like Amazon is kind of
◼
►
at a logistics and server running kind
◼
►
of natural monopolies that makes it
◼
►
almost impossible for any other company
◼
►
to compete with them I think we really
◼
►
are in a weird phase of the world where
◼
►
so these big companies exist and even if
◼
►
we were to somehow break them up it
◼
►
would just take a couple of years before
◼
►
the thing that replaces them is is just
◼
►
as big because everything is pointing in
◼
►
that direction but yeah you're 100%
◼
►
the social network is the most strong
◼
►
version of that like definitionally
◼
►
there almost has to be one do you use
◼
►
I haven't used Facebook in any
◼
►
meaningful way in years in any
◼
►
meaningful way but do you use it non
◼
►
meaningful ways yes I do use it in a non
◼
►
meaningful way which is that I have a
◼
►
CGP grey like business page right
◼
►
because if you're a public person
◼
►
Facebook doesn't let you have a personal
◼
►
webpage you have to have this business
◼
►
page I don't even know if it still works
◼
►
but I did have set up like an if this
◼
►
than that trigger that would just
◼
►
automatically post stuff from the
◼
►
website onto that page yeah and so when
◼
►
I can when I say like I haven't used it
◼
►
in a meaningful way that's what I mean
◼
►
like I haven't logged into Facebook and
◼
►
like six months at a bare minimum yeah
◼
►
and even then it would be just to like
◼
►
check on a thing I pretty much checked
◼
►
out of Facebook the instant they started
◼
►
that you need to pay us to send out your
◼
►
posts to the people who follow you on
◼
►
that was for me the day Facebook died I
◼
►
was like okay well I don't use Facebook
◼
►
on a personal level anyway and so if the
◼
►
only thing that I use it for is on a
◼
►
business level and now you're playing
◼
►
the Mafia game of like oh it's a nice
◼
►
business page you have there sure would
◼
►
be a shame if something happened to it
◼
►
then it's like okay I'm out I'm out I'm
◼
►
not really gonna play this game I'm not
◼
►
gonna participate in this so now I
◼
►
haven't used it personally in ever to
◼
►
you yeah I mean I have pages for all my
◼
►
different projects that I maintain yeah
◼
►
I go in there every day and have a look
◼
►
just to check what my friends are up to
◼
►
and I don't post a lot of stuff myself
◼
►
on there unless I'm doing like something
◼
►
amazing like yeah amazing my life is I
◼
►
don't post a pending three weeks in a
◼
►
row sitting at a desk editing videos but
◼
►
and that's the social media effect where
◼
►
everybody's life seems a million times
◼
►
more amazing than yours only the most
◼
►
amazing things they do and of course
◼
►
he's contributing to making the world a
◼
►
worse place by doing that brady you have
◼
►
to post your mundane days as well I
◼
►
think it's a problematic
◼
►
company but I almost feel like it's too
◼
►
big to fail because I look at you know
◼
►
although I don't reach all my followers
◼
►
because of the Mafia thing you mentioned
◼
►
do you have you know followings of all
◼
►
these Facebook pages and it seems like I
◼
►
can't just throw that away again I like
◼
►
ignore us so I mean I can but you
◼
►
totally can right I mean I'm willing to
◼
►
bet that if you dig into your analytic
◼
►
data on YouTube that Facebook is a much
◼
►
smaller portion of the views than you
◼
►
might expect that it is yeah I think
◼
►
you'd be right if that is the case I
◼
►
would certainly encourage you to not
◼
►
waste your time on it because if you're
◼
►
tracking like how much time do you spend
◼
►
on Facebook and how many views does that
◼
►
actually translate into I bet that
◼
►
equation would show very fast that
◼
►
Facebook is not worth actually spending
◼
►
any time on I would definitely say I
◼
►
don't waste time on it I do probably
◼
►
waste time on you know looking at my
◼
►
friends puppy but I don't waste time
◼
►
business on it like if there's a new
◼
►
numberphile video I'll just go in say
◼
►
hey everyone there's a new numberphile
◼
►
video I hope you like it mm-hmm
◼
►
here's the link and then leave and I
◼
►
won't hang around reading comments and
◼
►
you know it's it's perfunctory Facebook
◼
►
terrible I like this much cuz I could
◼
►
have expired a thing you've got me
◼
►
we have much to complain about we do
◼
►
have much to complain about Braden we
◼
►
may need another 100 episodes gray Oh Oh
◼
►
Brady you can't do that to the people I
◼
►
can't do that to the people
◼
►
can't do that to the people
◼
►
hi this is Dirk from Veritas okay here
◼
►
we go here we go hmm this is Dirk from
◼
►
Vera stab Liam and you're listening to
◼
►
the hundredth episode of hello Internet
◼
►
maybe it's time to stop making fun of my
◼
►
name green vs. yellow tennis balls yep
◼
►
this has become quite the thing yeah
◼
►
I've seen a little bit of this on my
◼
►
Twitter timeline so for people who don't
◼
►
know I'll do the quick background gray
◼
►
and his wife had a little marital
◼
►
discussion about where the tennis balls
◼
►
were green or yellow which caused gray
◼
►
to do a little tweaked poll about it do
◼
►
you think tennis balls are green or
◼
►
yellow lots of people got into it got
◼
►
lots of votes it even got a little bit
◼
►
of like media coverage which was quite
◼
►
funny yeah and we discussed it on hello
◼
►
and it was really interesting what
◼
►
happened as a result of the hello
◼
►
internet discussion there was lots of
◼
►
there are several scientific studies
◼
►
done I don't know if you've seen the one
◼
►
that I've popped in the show notes where
◼
►
someone actually took my advice and
◼
►
measured the light spectrum from lime
◼
►
from lemon and from a tennis ball which
◼
►
it was closer to and so you know they
◼
►
wrote up a little scientific report and
◼
►
many a laugh was had and that could have
◼
►
been the end of it except that one
◼
►
listener I think he must have found out
◼
►
that his girlfriend and his girlfriend's
◼
►
father were going to the tennis so he
◼
►
decided to tell them I listen to this
◼
►
podcast they were talking about where
◼
►
the tennis balls a green or yellow and
◼
►
the father who is not a Tim who was just
◼
►
the father of a girl whose boyfriend
◼
►
listens to Holly winter net right was
◼
►
quite taken by this and the next day he
◼
►
found himself in a little gaggle of
◼
►
people who were waiting to meet and get
◼
►
autographs from quite possibly the
◼
►
greatest tennis player ever current
◼
►
world number one tennis player although
◼
►
he's about to just go back down to
◼
►
number two but I think he's the greatest
◼
►
tennis player ever Roger Federer they
◼
►
were all waiting for Roger Federer to
◼
►
walk past between whatever matches he
◼
►
was playing sign a couple of autographs
◼
►
and whisk away and while he was signing
◼
►
these autographs this dad calls out
◼
►
Roger had tennis balls green or yellow
◼
►
and amongst all like the confusion Roger
◼
►
Federer at the question two suddenly
◼
►
took him and he looked up and he went
◼
►
I think he said something long was of
◼
►
the yellow aren't they mm-hmm and then a
◼
►
few other people in the quadrant yeah
◼
►
yeah they're yellow and this guy the
◼
►
dead who was filming this with his
◼
►
mobile phone said I think they're green
◼
►
but lots of other people think they're
◼
►
yellow and then Roger Federer said Nana
◼
►
they're yellow mm-hmm and then walked
◼
►
off you know that in itself I think was
◼
►
a great hello internet moment and I
◼
►
declared then and there that this Tim's
◼
►
girlfriend's dead is gonna get a Hello
◼
►
Internet Medal of Honor is that legal he
◼
►
doesn't even listen to the show but yeah
◼
►
I think he's getting around he's getting
◼
►
one and he's what within enough degrees
◼
►
of separation from the initiating
◼
►
incident that he's gonna get a medal
◼
►
it's never been written anywhere that
◼
►
you have to be a listener to get a Medal
◼
►
of Honor imagine it helps I mean to be
◼
►
fair I don't think we have anything
◼
►
written anywhere about how anything
◼
►
works but yes that's true we haven't
◼
►
written down rules about how the medals
◼
►
work now a lot of people said that I
◼
►
shouldn't be just giving them
◼
►
willy-nilly and I needed your approval
◼
►
but even if you said no to this I would
◼
►
say too bad he's getting one this is
◼
►
what happens people maybe could I
◼
►
stopped him no often I could not I could
◼
►
not would you stop me is the question
◼
►
you wouldn't veto this one surely this
◼
►
is a great moment having the greatest
◼
►
tennis player in history weigh in on
◼
►
this - squabble about the color of
◼
►
tennis books I certainly could disagree
◼
►
with you one you send me a video and
◼
►
from my perspective it's some guy in a
◼
►
crowd is commenting on the tennis ball
◼
►
thing right it's like oh okay
◼
►
great I feel like the medals should be
◼
►
going to actual listeners of the show so
◼
►
I do feel like I can disagree with you
◼
►
but I just you seem so tickled by this
◼
►
that I know there's nothing I can do to
◼
►
stop you from simply mailing out one of
◼
►
these medals to a guy who's going to be
◼
►
very surprised to just get a box that's
◼
►
an award it would be the second one
◼
►
awarded look right I see what you mean
◼
►
about you have to be a listener right
◼
►
like you have to be a citizen of a
◼
►
certain country to win certain honors
◼
►
but I think medals of Honor generally
◼
►
are just for the furtherance of the
◼
►
greatness of hello Internet and this
◼
►
definitely has furthered the cause in a
◼
►
very special way to me so I thought it
◼
►
was fantastic right I thought was
◼
►
absolutely fantastic I had a right laugh
◼
►
at it and that could have been it just
◼
►
understand I know you don't really
◼
►
appreciate Who Roger Federer is this is
◼
►
the equivalent of say instead of tennis
◼
►
balls you and your wife had been
◼
►
discussing something about mr. chompers
◼
►
ears you couldn't decide something about
◼
►
his ears or not mm-hmm and then someone
◼
►
went and got an official comment from
◼
►
Charles Darwin about it this is what it
◼
►
is to me this is a level of greatness in
◼
►
the field this is the Charles Darwin or
◼
►
Isaac Newton of tennis hmm he just
◼
►
happens to be alive this means that I'm
◼
►
officially right in your eyes is that
◼
►
how this works well that's another issue
◼
►
I tell you another thing though about
◼
►
Roger Federer that you may not
◼
►
appreciate but you know how there are
◼
►
certain things on the internet that you
◼
►
don't mess with because everyone will
◼
►
jump on you like you know electric
◼
►
fences because they have really jealous
◼
►
followers Roger Federer is one of those
◼
►
things that was about to say can you
◼
►
give me an example of things that you
◼
►
don't mess with on the Internet Brady
◼
►
like what are beehives you are not
◼
►
supposed to poke the sticks you're
◼
►
normally the one who tells me so you
◼
►
don't worry about them than me you're
◼
►
the one who says no we're not talking
◼
►
about that I have never said such a
◼
►
thing braving criticizing Roger Federer
◼
►
is such a beehive never criticize Roger
◼
►
Federer because his fans known as the
◼
►
fed heads Oh God are very zealous
◼
►
this is like tennis Logan Pollard's is
◼
►
that what this is like I'll make jokes
◼
►
about Elon Musk who the cows come home
◼
►
but I'm not saying anything bad about
◼
►
Roger Federer or his fans so annoying
◼
►
that you don't want to like him Brady is
◼
►
that one of these situations no comment
◼
►
no comment from Brady at all so anyway
◼
►
after Roger Federer weighed in on the
◼
►
this story for lack of a better word
◼
►
completely blew up and went absolutely
◼
►
everywhere like The Today Show in
◼
►
America it was in all the newspapers it
◼
►
was on all the web sites it was all over
◼
►
the BBC tennis balls yellow or green for
◼
►
like a day and a half or two days became
◼
►
an absolute obsession a media obsession
◼
►
any mention of gray and his wife where
◼
►
it all started or hello Internet had
◼
►
completely vanished from existence lots
◼
►
of teams were upset about this they're
◼
►
like oh they're not mentioning gray and
◼
►
then I'm mentioning hello Internet like
◼
►
that's just what happens with these
◼
►
things yeah but it became absolutely
◼
►
massive you couldn't look anywhere
◼
►
without it coming up do you care or you
◼
►
relieved that you kind of got pushed out
◼
►
of the story or I mean you kept sending
◼
►
me more and more things from stories
◼
►
about where it was being posted and the
◼
►
number one thing no I don't feel like I
◼
►
need to be credited that I worded a
◼
►
tweet that was a discussion about my
◼
►
wife and I and tennis ball like that is
◼
►
the kind of thing on the internet that
◼
►
trying to have any kind of ownership of
◼
►
that is just like an insanity right so I
◼
►
want to be really clear I would have no
◼
►
expectations that by the time this thing
◼
►
gets pattern matched up to Good Morning
◼
►
America The Good Morning America is like
◼
►
Greg and his wife we're having a
◼
►
discussion about tennis balls right like
◼
►
I would not expect that but I did have
◼
►
this different feeling where I kind of
◼
►
did not like you keeping sending me
◼
►
these articles were you like oh look
◼
►
it's over here now three or four I think
◼
►
it was three or four hundred it felt
◼
►
like I would likely continue but you are
◼
►
doing me a disservice here it was not
◼
►
that man it was three or four it wasn't
◼
►
that many but it was also on Twitter
◼
►
like people just kept sending me like
◼
►
hey look the thing is over here okay so
◼
►
there is awesome away where I feel like
◼
►
how can I say this thing without
◼
►
sounding like the world's most jaded
◼
►
asshole I think there's a thing where
◼
►
people want you to be like happy that
◼
►
this thing that you started has spread
◼
►
far and wide throughout the news media
◼
►
and my response to this is not a kind of
◼
►
happiness it's just like enough of these
◼
►
things have happened over the years I've
◼
►
seen this happen with other people
◼
►
enough over the years that this is just
◼
►
like a pattern and I feel like this is
◼
►
what the media machine does like they're
◼
►
looking for things that they know are
◼
►
going to get them views and attention
◼
►
and they will just repeat and pattern
◼
►
amplify that and copy the others what
◼
►
yeah and copy the others but they copy
◼
►
the others in this like battle of the
◼
►
memes for attention of who's watching TV
◼
►
and any kind of thing like this where
◼
►
you can divide people in teams like it's
◼
►
going to spread but my feeling people
◼
►
are like oh aren't you excited like it
◼
►
made the New York Times is like not
◼
►
this is like literally the job of these
◼
►
companies is to find things that will
◼
►
get people's attention and to pattern
◼
►
amplify them across time so I almost
◼
►
felt like oh this like thing that was
◼
►
fun for the podcast like now it is
◼
►
everywhere in the world like and it's
◼
►
just been pattern amplified all over the
◼
►
place it was a strange thing to see this
◼
►
spread across the internet but that's
◼
►
what happens like catchy ideas spread it
◼
►
would be like definitionally impossible
◼
►
for them not to spread but that's how
◼
►
these things go they spread across the
◼
►
internet very fast and very far just to
◼
►
be clear I wasn't sending you those
◼
►
things because I wanted you to be like
◼
►
excited or happy or proud I was winding
◼
►
you up basically because I don't know
◼
►
how much you hate the media so the fact
◼
►
that like you and your wife just you
◼
►
know chatting about tennis balls for ten
◼
►
minutes in your house can make it as a
◼
►
news story in The Times of London yeah
◼
►
like I expect you to see that oh my god
◼
►
what where do I live in I'm sending that
◼
►
to you to like poke the grumpy old man
◼
►
and get him more upset about news not
◼
►
like well done you should be proud
◼
►
you've made it yeah I know that's 100%
◼
►
what you're doing which is also why
◼
►
Brady you may have noticed you've got
◼
►
very few responses from me Brady sends
◼
►
the articles through and is like I say
◼
►
nothing back right reply because I know
◼
►
you're trying to wind me up right and
◼
►
that's why I CC your wife into the
◼
►
messages as well because she's polite
◼
►
and replies and she was also getting a
◼
►
bit wound up and I happened to be away
◼
►
while this was going on and you were
◼
►
messaging my wife and I and I was busy
◼
►
but I came very very close to sending my
◼
►
wife a message which would have been
◼
►
something along the lines of like don't
◼
►
keep replying to Brady or just
◼
►
encouraging her because she was all like
◼
►
this is tweeting right this is
◼
►
outrageous she got the joke but yeah no
◼
►
of course of course I know you're trying
◼
►
to wind me up and it fits exactly in
◼
►
like the gray checklist of not media
◼
►
hatred but media sadness disappointment
◼
►
a little bit of despise 'el I'm not
◼
►
angry at the media I'm disappointed yeah
◼
►
I'm disappointed and next time you want
◼
►
to tell me about the brave Fourth Estate
◼
►
our democracy from all sorts of ills
◼
►
I'll remind you that they spent lots of
◼
►
time on whether or not tennis balls are
◼
►
green or yellow can I give you that I
◼
►
know we talked about how I will
◼
►
sometimes cut things that you say from
◼
►
the show segments that I find boring
◼
►
sports ball corners sometimes but I have
◼
►
to say that last episode I did have a
◼
►
real crisis of confidence of if I should
◼
►
even put up that section about necessary
◼
►
lies of society there is something about
◼
►
it that just felt like I don't know if I
◼
►
really want to open this door publicly I
◼
►
really did think about it like should we
◼
►
put up this little section we're not
◼
►
really saying anything that's terrible
◼
►
in here this is not like a brand new
◼
►
idea that has never been released into
◼
►
the world but there was something about
◼
►
it that I felt a little bit
◼
►
uncomfortable about but once the show
◼
►
was up then I immediately asked on
◼
►
Twitter like hey everybody tell me your
◼
►
necessary lies to keep civilization
◼
►
together because I'm like well when it's
◼
►
out here let's just double down and it's
◼
►
interesting because I think I got back
◼
►
many terrible answers and that people
◼
►
would just say things that like our
◼
►
phrases that you hear that simply aren't
◼
►
true so I'm trying to think about how to
◼
►
define more clearly this idea like a
◼
►
necessary lie of civilization and I
◼
►
think you're one just then as the
◼
►
transition is totally true like cheaters
◼
►
never win is a kind of civilization
◼
►
propaganda that we have to try to get
◼
►
people on board with even though it's
◼
►
not true anyway so there were a bunch of
◼
►
answers that I thought were not really
◼
►
good or just like aphorisms but I think
◼
►
the best answer that I got was from
◼
►
greed grow on reddit and the necessary
◼
►
lie is that violence is not the answer
◼
►
or violence is not the solution man
◼
►
that is a really great necessary lie of
◼
►
it's almost definitionally there to keep
◼
►
civilization together that like
◼
►
civilization is the resolution of
◼
►
problems without having to resort to
◼
►
violence and that feels like a real
◼
►
ground level kind of agreement that
◼
►
there are plenty of things that you
◼
►
could probably try to solve with
◼
►
violence but we all have to agree
◼
►
together that like we're not going to
◼
►
resort to this tool and we have to agree
◼
►
things together like we're not going to
◼
►
resort to violence as a solution but
◼
►
it's like there are plenty of situations
◼
►
where we use violence as the solution we
◼
►
have Wars right or it's like we pay
◼
►
police like to essentially force things
◼
►
to occur so I really like that as an
◼
►
answer for a necessary lie of
◼
►
civilization is like we teach kids like
◼
►
violence is not the answer violence is
◼
►
not the solution and and often can be we
◼
►
just we can't resort to it otherwise
◼
►
we'll be a bunch of chimps tearing each
◼
►
so violence isn't a solution then
◼
►
because ultimately we tear each other
◼
►
apart violence is not the solution if
◼
►
everyone uses violence the violence can
◼
►
be a solution if a select few people use
◼
►
it yeah that's really getting to the
◼
►
core of like we were talking last unlike
◼
►
the psychopathy school of like oh we
◼
►
pull some people apart and we say like
◼
►
hey here's some things you might want to
◼
►
they're actually true or like you're
◼
►
gonna be very successful or very
◼
►
terrible people and being willing to
◼
►
resort to violence is one of those
◼
►
things it's like if everybody does this
◼
►
civilization falls apart which is why
◼
►
it's a necessary lie but like on an
◼
►
individual basis it can kind of work the
◼
►
thing it made me think about which it
◼
►
can it's like how can I don't even want
◼
►
to say it out loud when I was in middle
◼
►
school and like on the edge of being a
◼
►
kid who was about to be bullied a little
◼
►
bit and you know the adults tell you
◼
►
it's like oh I'll ignore the situation
◼
►
you know don't do anything bullies just
◼
►
feel bad about themselves which is also
◼
►
like you hear all of this advice and my
◼
►
experience as a kid was nothing stopped
◼
►
the beginning of bullying faster than
◼
►
adding a little bit of violence into the
◼
►
solution what did you do grey because my
◼
►
question I was gonna ask you was have
◼
►
you ever used violence as a solution and
◼
►
I thought there's no way he'd answer
◼
►
and you've just offered it up well your
◼
►
criminal past is not criminal it's
◼
►
what did you do did you punch someone a
◼
►
bully did you punch your bully look I
◼
►
don't even really want to get into the
◼
►
details but it sounds cooler if you
◼
►
don't tell anyway because a lot we can
◼
►
imagine something more awesome I don't
◼
►
know look here's the thing the reason
◼
►
why I would be like a potential bullying
◼
►
target is because I wasn't like a big
◼
►
buff kid or anything like shocked
◼
►
surprised younger gray was kind of a
◼
►
nerd right like total surprise I'm sure
◼
►
oh you mean he wasn't quarterback at the
◼
►
school football team yeah that's not the
◼
►
image of how it was so you just had to
◼
►
lay down a marker once you lay down a
◼
►
marker and the trick is you have to be
◼
►
able to convince the other person that
◼
►
retaliation will be unreasonably large
◼
►
again I don't want to say these things
◼
►
out loud Brady why do I say them into
◼
►
the microphone but it's just you it may
◼
►
here when I was a teacher I would just
◼
►
see it like I had the interesting
◼
►
experience of teaching at mixed schools
◼
►
with both boys and girls teaching at
◼
►
girl only schools and teaching at boy
◼
►
only schools like it was really
◼
►
interesting as an adult
◼
►
to see this like from a different
◼
►
perspective and it's like oh there's a
◼
►
couple of lessons that I learned there
◼
►
like lesson number one is high school is
◼
►
even more awful like viewing it from the
◼
►
perspective as an adult than it was as a
◼
►
kid but it's like oh okay I can see that
◼
►
none of the boys make it through school
◼
►
without being subjected to some kind of
◼
►
physical violence and none of the girls
◼
►
make it through school without being
◼
►
subjected to some kind of psychological
◼
►
violence from each other it's like it's
◼
►
I like that violence is not the answer
◼
►
or the solution one I feel like that was
◼
►
just a like a really really great answer
◼
►
to this question and I'll be sure to cut
◼
►
or dramatically cut down this section
◼
►
don't let me leave it up Brady don't let
◼
►
me leave it up we're gonna tear the
◼
►
world apart I don't mean to hello hello
◼
►
internet listeners is there something
◼
►
that you want to learn is there a skill
◼
►
that you want to require something you
◼
►
wish you could do that you can't do now
◼
►
then you should check out skills share
◼
►
skill share is an online learning
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►
community with thousands of classes in
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design business technology and more with
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skills share Premium Membership you get
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unlimited access to high-quality classes
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on must know topics so you can improve
◼
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your skills unlock new opportunities and
◼
►
do the work you love right now you're
◼
►
listening to a podcast and I'm willing
◼
►
to bet that many of you probably want to
◼
►
start a podcast of your own but you
◼
►
don't know where to begin and it can be
◼
►
pretty overwhelming even after having
◼
►
done this for years I'm constantly
◼
►
surprised at how fiddly and fussy doing
◼
►
a podcast can be well
◼
►
Skillshare has podcasting classes and
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not just one thing on podcasting they
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cover all of the various ranges from the
◼
►
technical side about how to get started
◼
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to the editing side how to work with
◼
►
tools like logic or Adobe to actually
◼
►
edit the podcast and they have classes
◼
►
on how to improve your extemporaneous
◼
►
way of speaking so across the whole
◼
►
range of everything you could want to
◼
►
know about how to make a podcast
◼
►
Skillshare has classes on that so again
◼
►
an annual scription to skills share is
◼
►
less than ten dollars a month but right
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now if you go to Skillshare comm slash
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hello the first 1,000 people to sign up
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will receive their first two months for
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99 cents that's Skillshare comm slash
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hello and the first 1,000 people will
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receive their first two months for 99
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cents there are quite a lot of hello
◼
►
internet listeners so if you are hearing
◼
►
the sound of my voice right now you
◼
►
probably want to go and check that out
◼
►
as soon as you can it gets you a
◼
►
discount on Skillshare and let's
◼
►
Skillshare know that you came from our
◼
►
show so thanks to Skillshare for
◼
►
supporting hello Internet and thanks to
◼
►
Skillshare for teaching people the
◼
►
skills they can use to make their lives
◼
►
better a thing has happened which we all
◼
►
know we have been waiting for it to
◼
►
happen a bad thing that was inevitable
◼
►
which is we have had now the first death
◼
►
as a result of a self-driving car as in
◼
►
hitting a pedestrian because people have
◼
►
died in their own cars already there
◼
►
have been a bunch of these like leading
◼
►
up incidences I think some of which
◼
►
we've even talked about on the show in
◼
►
the past where like someone is in a car
◼
►
and they're not paying attention or like
◼
►
there's accidents but this is one where
◼
►
uber testing a like fully autonomous
◼
►
self-driving car and there was someone
◼
►
behind the wheel who was just like
◼
►
keeping an eye on the equipment and a
◼
►
pedestrian walking a bicycle across the
◼
►
street got hit by the uber and died
◼
►
this to me is like the first like
◼
►
clearest example of someone has died
◼
►
from a self-driving car that was being
◼
►
autonomous and it's a car that is
◼
►
designed to be autonomous in the way
◼
►
that we're all thinking about as opposed
◼
►
to the malfunction of a system which is
◼
►
much more like an assistive driving
◼
►
system or like a lane maintaining system
◼
►
yeah what do you think about this as a
◼
►
moment in time or as a news story that
◼
►
has occurred it's a significant sort of
◼
►
moment like in terms of being a
◼
►
milestone I've seen footage of the
◼
►
accident mm-hm and I've seen what a lot
◼
►
of people wrote about the accident
◼
►
and like to look at it without knowing
◼
►
all the facts like it does seem like
◼
►
this person was crossing the road in a
◼
►
way that wasn't like being super super
◼
►
cautious like they did seem to be
◼
►
crossing the road in a way that looked
◼
►
dangerous but we're also told these
◼
►
self-driving cars can see everything off
◼
►
to the sides and know what's going on
◼
►
and predict these things and so all the
◼
►
people who are saying well of course no
◼
►
one could have avoided that no human
◼
►
could have avoided it how do we expect a
◼
►
self-driving car to avoid it well I will
◼
►
hold self-driving cars to a higher
◼
►
standard but you can only hold them to
◼
►
so high standard if someone wants to die
◼
►
by jumping in love this person did but
◼
►
if someone wants to die by jumping in
◼
►
front of a car they they can still do it
◼
►
with a self-driving car so I think we
◼
►
have to realize people are still gonna
◼
►
die at the hands of self-driving cars I
◼
►
think this was just a a milestone that
◼
►
was always gonna happen
◼
►
it'll slow things down it does make me
◼
►
wonder if when the first person died
◼
►
from an actual car like you know back in
◼
►
the olden days whether or not cars being
◼
►
on the road was stopped for like six
◼
►
months while people rethought the
◼
►
situation like was it the same back then
◼
►
when the first pedestrian got hit by
◼
►
some five miles an hour
◼
►
automobile did everyone go no we can't
◼
►
have these things on the road and go up
◼
►
in arms well there was no social media
◼
►
on which to share these stories
◼
►
who knows how information was spread
◼
►
back in those days of yore nobody nobody
◼
►
knows I think it's interesting because
◼
►
this happened a little while ago and I
◼
►
when the first thing that could be even
◼
►
classified as a kind of accident with
◼
►
any self-driving occurred which i think
◼
►
was something like a tesla system a
◼
►
couple years ago on the highway had an
◼
►
accident that became like the first
◼
►
story about this I thought it was
◼
►
interesting to see that that blew over
◼
►
relatively quickly and I feel like this
◼
►
story as well at least from the little
◼
►
bit I've been keeping an eye on it seems
◼
►
like it's blowing its way through the
◼
►
news cycle pretty quickly yeah I don't
◼
►
know if this is actually going to have
◼
►
any significant effect on the
◼
►
development of self-driving cars you can
◼
►
find the video online that shows the
◼
►
camera in front of the car and I agree
◼
►
that it's a case where no human driver
◼
►
could have possibly avoided that
◼
►
accident it's at nighttime the woman
◼
►
walking the bicycle is walking across a
◼
►
highway where there's not a pedestrian
◼
►
intersection and by the time she appears
◼
►
the accident is inevitable like there's
◼
►
no way even if the car slammed on the
◼
►
brakes immediately there's no way that
◼
►
you could possibly do it but I feel like
◼
►
I don't need self-driving cars to be
◼
►
better than humans to be on the road I
◼
►
feel like they just need to be
◼
►
equivalent to humans that is my my point
◼
►
of like where can we start putting
◼
►
self-driving cars on the road no I need
◼
►
to be better ok why do they need to be
◼
►
better and how much better because when
◼
►
they need to better cuz we're so bad at
◼
►
driving like L live was unacceptable
◼
►
basically but they don't need to be
◼
►
infallible they need to be more
◼
►
impressive than humans and how could
◼
►
they not be because we're such bad
◼
►
drivers they are already better so I
◼
►
think this debates already over yeah I
◼
►
did see someone on Twitter make a joke
◼
►
or something like a self-driving car has
◼
►
killed one person today and people
◼
►
driving cars will kill 3,000 people
◼
►
today right which is like Oh God it's an
◼
►
unfair comparison in many ways but I
◼
►
think it really does make a point of
◼
►
humans are terrible drivers my feeling
◼
►
there was like I'm happy with
◼
►
equivalency because I think the benefits
◼
►
that you get from the self-driving car
◼
►
then make that mental calculus of is
◼
►
this better it makes it clearly better
◼
►
even if the self-driving cars are only
◼
►
at human level and I feel like it's
◼
►
inevitable that they'll obviously keep
◼
►
over time but you're right that it is a
◼
►
case where the story about the
◼
►
self-driving cars is like oh they have
◼
►
lidar which looks in all directions and
◼
►
can see everything it does raise the
◼
►
human expectation that like oh this car
◼
►
should always be able to see all
◼
►
pedestrians in all situations I also
◼
►
wanted to mention the story because
◼
►
there's a thing that has been on my mind
◼
►
for a while with self-driving cars which
◼
►
I find myself wondering or maybe I
◼
►
should say reevaluating my position on
◼
►
how fast this is actually going to occur
◼
►
because when I put out that humans need
◼
►
not apply video a few years ago it felt
◼
►
like things were moving very quickly in
◼
►
the world of self-driving technology and
◼
►
most people were not aware of it and now
◼
►
that people know self-driving cars are a
◼
►
thing and that they exist and people are
◼
►
sort of waiting for self-driving cars it
◼
►
feels like there has been just very very
◼
►
slow progress in this field and I wonder
◼
►
like is this a technology that is going
◼
►
through some kind of s-curve where there
◼
►
was no progress made for a long time and
◼
►
then like the year 2000 s things start
◼
►
to speed up and accelerates and then we
◼
►
hit like 2015 and it looks like oh man
◼
►
it's gonna be here any day and then all
◼
►
of a sudden it starts to really level
◼
►
off like the rate at which we're making
◼
►
progress in this area and I do wonder if
◼
►
it is the case where it's a
◼
►
technological problem where the last 10
◼
►
or 15 percent of the problem turns out
◼
►
to be you know 85% of the actual work
◼
►
that getting a car - not quite human
◼
►
level is much much simpler than getting
◼
►
it to human level like getting it to
◼
►
that last 10% but I am aware that I feel
◼
►
like past me expected there to be more
◼
►
progress in self-driving cars by now
◼
►
then there actually are and I feel like
◼
►
we've only seen the smallest scale tests
◼
►
of these things so you think this last
◼
►
15 10 % that we might be going through
◼
►
at the moment is purely going to be a
◼
►
technological hurdle we haven't started
◼
►
running into the social and political
◼
►
side of things you think it's so
◼
►
technology now it's funny I didn't
◼
►
mention it because that is just not a
◼
►
thing that's even on my radar I really
◼
►
just don't think that that is going to
◼
►
be any kind of significant barrier right
◼
►
I still think it is such a technological
◼
►
advantage if we can get it there that
◼
►
there's no way that the places that say
◼
►
oh we're gonna wait on self-driving cars
◼
►
I feel like that is such a self slowdown
◼
►
that very few places will do that like
◼
►
it would be like banning cellphones
◼
►
because we're not quite sure how
◼
►
addictive they are yet it's like well
◼
►
okay good luck with that
◼
►
but the rest of the world is gonna
◼
►
totally leave you behind
◼
►
and I think that yeah when we do get the
◼
►
self-driving cars it'll be the same
◼
►
thing that if some states or some
◼
►
country say mmm we're gonna hold off on
◼
►
this for a little while it's going to be
◼
►
just such a tremendous economic
◼
►
advantage that they won't be able to do
◼
►
I don't know I wonder if it's just gonna
◼
►
take a lot longer than I expected I hope
◼
►
it doesn't but I'm a little worried that
◼
►
it might well I'm finding every time I
◼
►
think it's gonna take forever at speeds
◼
►
up and every time I think it's gonna be
◼
►
tomorrow it slows down so I've given up
◼
►
all together I have this feeling almost
◼
►
like as soon as we publish this episode
◼
►
again it's going to be like oh and
◼
►
self-driving cars are here in three
◼
►
weeks they're on sale right you can
◼
►
pre-order them now I read an article in
◼
►
the paper this morning that really
◼
►
disappointed me about self-driving cars
◼
►
they hmm they're talking about building
◼
►
into the interface for self-driving cars
◼
►
things to keep people's attention
◼
►
whether it's like you know games of
◼
►
tetris or things like that so that
◼
►
people will stay alert so they can take
◼
►
over the car in an emergency that's not
◼
►
what I want my self-driving car to be I
◼
►
want to be in the back reading the paper
◼
►
or working on my laptop I don't want to
◼
►
have to be ready to take over in an
◼
►
emergency that's an excellent point and
◼
►
I think there is a way where we are
◼
►
actually in a little bit of a dangerous
◼
►
like local minimum right now with
◼
►
self-driving technology because like my
◼
►
parents bought a new car that has a lot
◼
►
of Drive assistance stuff in it so we
◼
►
can do things similar there too like
◼
►
what Tesla's will do where you can tell
◼
►
it to stay in a lane and it will
◼
►
maintain its position within that Lane
◼
►
on a highway even if it goes around the
◼
►
corner or it will be able to like you
◼
►
should if you're trying to minimize the
◼
►
amount of traffic like it'll keep an
◼
►
equal distance between the
◼
►
in front of it and behind it on the
◼
►
highway and it will do some limited
◼
►
accident avoidance stuff and it's very
◼
►
interesting to drive that and play
◼
►
around with that but I really do think
◼
►
it does put humans in the worst
◼
►
situation where the car is good enough
◼
►
on the highway that you feel like you
◼
►
don't need to pay any attention at all
◼
►
which must dramatically raise the
◼
►
possibility of an accident like I would
◼
►
love to see what the numbers are for
◼
►
what is the accident rate per 100,000
◼
►
miles when Lane maintenance is engaged
◼
►
on a highway and I wouldn't be the least
◼
►
bit surprised if like minor traffic
◼
►
accidents go up because the person feels
◼
►
like I don't have to really pay
◼
►
attention I can be doing something else
◼
►
like and I noticed that behavior in
◼
►
myself when I was driving that car it's
◼
►
like oh I'm on the highway I feel much
◼
►
safer looking at my phone in a way that
◼
►
if I was driving a car without it I feel
◼
►
like the phone doesn't exist for me if
◼
►
I'm driving a car without any assistance
◼
►
stuff and I found myself like oh maybe I
◼
►
can just look at that text message and
◼
►
see what it was about or I want to
◼
►
change what podcast I'm listening to I
◼
►
can flip over and do like a fiddly app
◼
►
switch on my phone right now because I
◼
►
the car's got it on the highway so I
◼
►
wouldn't be surprised if cars with that
◼
►
stuff are a little bit worse than cars
◼
►
without it that's like we need to push
◼
►
past here to get to exactly what you're
◼
►
talking about like I can sit in the back
◼
►
with a laptop and not have to care at
◼
►
all but if if you need to have Tetris on
◼
►
the dashboard to keep a person mentally
◼
►
engaged I think that's almost worse than
◼
►
not having that technology at all there
◼
►
was a plane crash caused by a pilot
◼
►
basically saying these things can land
◼
►
themselves I'll prove it and didn't look
◼
►
while landing and then crash the plane
◼
►
and killed a bunch of people pilot snow
◼
►
dares in the cockpit okay no we don't
◼
►
want that that's no good okay I've been
◼
►
going through the listener emails you
◼
►
know what people are doing what people
◼
►
have to say I know you want to have the
◼
►
people feel like you're listening to
◼
►
them you're looking through their
◼
►
feedback always listening that's a
◼
►
little much oh no no I knew when they
◼
►
want to be listened to and sometimes not
◼
►
but go message for Brady at gmail the
◼
►
number four is where these things should
◼
►
go and I will have a look from time to
◼
►
time including an email from Ryan which
◼
►
was so interesting I sent him an email
◼
►
back asking for some more details and
◼
►
boy did he provide them he wrote a very
◼
►
lengthy reply thank you very much Ryan
◼
►
but the main reason he caught my
◼
►
attention was he has gotten himself a
◼
►
tattoo that I thought I should share
◼
►
with you ah he already had tattoos and
◼
►
this is like he's kind of added this as
◼
►
you'll see I think these tattoos are
◼
►
sort of to reflect his interests sorry I
◼
►
accidentally just sent them to my wife
◼
►
replied with oh my god then we send them
◼
►
to you I thought why is grey replying
◼
►
with oh my god and not just saying it
◼
►
out loud I've decided that we should do
◼
►
this podcast via texting Brady there we
◼
►
go now hopefully you've got them too oh
◼
►
my god we have a nail and gear tattoo
◼
►
that is connected to Oh God
◼
►
okay USB symbol at the other end and
◼
►
that's a representation of a certain
◼
►
kind of chemical connection right the
◼
►
hexagon with the three lines yeah I mean
◼
►
that card if I paint like a benzene ring
◼
►
but it can't be that cuz it's got a
◼
►
whole bunch of other stuff I don't know
◼
►
what that is but yes so three symbols
◼
►
connected to each other the nail and
◼
►
gear the benzene ring and the USB symbol
◼
►
it's like a chemical compound that we
◼
►
don't know what it is a USB symbol
◼
►
coming off and most recently he's added
◼
►
quite a bold nail and gear to his inner
◼
►
arm it looks very fresh that nail and
◼
►
cure yeah that picture you're looking at
◼
►
was very soon after it was done he says
◼
►
I really love the podcast I'm a huge fan
◼
►
of you and gray the H o podcast got me
◼
►
through some tough times and I want my
◼
►
tattoos to be a sort of time capsule of
◼
►
what was important to me at each stage
◼
►
it took about half an hour to have done
◼
►
my friends like the tattoo although some
◼
►
of them got a bit confused when they
◼
►
asked me what the nailing gear was and I
◼
►
went on a five-minute tangent on the
◼
►
podcast about plane crashes and flags
◼
►
so this is a thing Brady you send me
◼
►
these I get nervous with the tattoos
◼
►
there is definitely a way in which I
◼
►
obviously think about tattoos in a
◼
►
different way than people who get
◼
►
tattoos think about tattoos I think that
◼
►
yeah yeah and even that comment from
◼
►
Ryan sums up what I've heard from a lot
◼
►
of people with tattoos where they want
◼
►
them as markers of a point in life and I
◼
►
can't think about tattoos that way I am
◼
►
tattoo las' as I'm sure will be a
◼
►
surprise to no one in the world it'll be
◼
►
a surprise to Ryan cuz he says in his
◼
►
longer version of the email that he
◼
►
feels like he's on the same wavelength
◼
►
as you not about tattoos they may be
◼
►
just about other things I feel like
◼
►
there's a lot of pressure all of a
◼
►
sudden right because when someone puts a
◼
►
tattoo on their body and they say oh I
◼
►
love the show right now what happens if
◼
►
you decide in the future that you're not
◼
►
such fans of us but nothing's ever gonna
◼
►
change the fact he was a fan for I know
◼
►
I know this is exactly it like this is
◼
►
what I try to understand is this idea of
◼
►
it is a marker of a time and so the
◼
►
future is not affecting the thing like
◼
►
tattoos I feel like are the opposite of
◼
►
my mental framework because people who
◼
►
get tattoos it does seem to be much more
◼
►
passed focus like it's a marker of a
◼
►
thing that happened and of course I feel
◼
►
like I want nothing to do with the past
◼
►
it doesn't exist anymore I have no
◼
►
interest in it it is gone
◼
►
and it is only about the future so when
◼
►
I look at tattoos I can't not always
◼
►
mentally frame them from the perspective
◼
►
of what will future me think about this
◼
►
tattoo which then always leads me to the
◼
►
conclusion of well I don't have any idea
◼
►
what that guy's going to think about
◼
►
this and then like well I can't make
◼
►
decisions for that guy in this way so
◼
►
I'm like I'm not going to get a tattoo
◼
►
but when I've spoken to people who have
◼
►
tattoos and I try to explain my thinking
◼
►
about them they look at me like I'm
◼
►
and I clearly don't understand
◼
►
so yeah I mean it can go wrong I just
◼
►
sent you a tattoo that was doing the
◼
►
rounds quite recently that someone got a
◼
►
few days before all the news stories
◼
►
broke about Kevin Spacey and he got a
◼
►
tattoo of Kevin Spacey on his arm and
◼
►
then like you know all that stuff hit
◼
►
the fan it's a bit like what does that
◼
►
mean now that's the problem there's a
◼
►
reason that most countries also decide
◼
►
that they are only going to put dead
◼
►
people on their money is to avoid this
◼
►
sort of problem if you don't want to put
◼
►
a living person on your money and then
◼
►
that living person does something that
◼
►
you as a country don't like they start
◼
►
spilling the necessary lies of
◼
►
civilization and you're like oh no we
◼
►
just put them on the $2 bill I don't
◼
►
think Frank Underwood is a president
◼
►
he'd want to put on your American money
◼
►
anyway so I think we were gonna always
◼
►
gonna be safe on that one well Ryan's
◼
►
happy with her he thinks and looks good
◼
►
and I think it looks good it does look
◼
►
good it does look good and we appreciate
◼
►
it and we will try to keep the support
◼
►
cast that is worthy of your tattoo no
◼
►
sorry I shouldn't say that that's what
◼
►
you don't mean to say yes because all
◼
►
right because look we're not gonna be
◼
►
beholden to Ryan that's not what's going
◼
►
to happen right and we make no promises
◼
►
about the future quality of this show
◼
►
Brady feels happy about it I feel
◼
►
slightly uncomfortable about it but I am
◼
►
glad that you are glad that's what
◼
►
matters you got to make decisions for
◼
►
you you don't make decisions for me oh
◼
►
so I had another photo from a viewer a
◼
►
kind of what you do while listening to
◼
►
hello internet moment that really
◼
►
tickled me before I Audrey that's just
◼
►
that's terrible she's getting worse
◼
►
great she wants to be on the podcast but
◼
►
he is on the podcast so here's one from
◼
►
Eden I am a student studying ecology I'm
◼
►
currently working on research about
◼
►
differences in animal community
◼
►
structure that result from external
◼
►
factors around streams one of the things
◼
►
this involves is collecting fish and
◼
►
measuring 24 different parts of the
◼
►
fish's body which is amazing to me
◼
►
because I didn't know fish had 24 parts
◼
►
of their body I tend to listen to
◼
►
podcasts while doing this as it is
◼
►
tedious work hello internet is of course
◼
►
the world's greatest podcast trademark
◼
►
because I like to listen to you and gray
◼
►
discuss those pesky flag flag ripples
◼
►
while I work I've attached
◼
►
lightly morbid proof of my claim keep up
◼
►
the work so here's the picture the fish
◼
►
eden has sent grouse I feel like I can
◼
►
smell all of those fish on that
◼
►
measuring tray through this photograph
◼
►
that has a very fishy photograph nicely
◼
►
arranged in a pattern we have some dead
◼
►
fish spelling out a chai and some tiny
◼
►
little fish around a border making the H
◼
►
I love go all on a medical examining
◼
►
tray I love that I love that there is a
◼
►
little tiny little baby sad anyone's
◼
►
make up the little dots of the border
◼
►
and the big fish make the lettuce I was
◼
►
originally going to say I don't believe
◼
►
this photograph because I don't see the
◼
►
mandatory podcast logo in the image and
◼
►
then it took me a second to resolve what
◼
►
I was actually looking at it like oh
◼
►
right the fish are the logo I don't know
◼
►
what kind of fish they are but they're
◼
►
freaky looking their eyes are scary I
◼
►
think that's how things look when
◼
►
they're dead Brady you know they passed
◼
►
on to the next realm and their eyes are
◼
►
all cloudy I've seen dead fish in the
◼
►
fish market and their eyes were as cold
◼
►
and dead as those ones I'm very happy
◼
►
that people listen to the show I'm happy
◼
►
that it gets them through tedious things
◼
►
in their life and I'm happy that
◼
►
somewhere in the world someone arranged
◼
►
a bunch of fish in a laboratory to spill
◼
►
out the HR logo sentences you'd never
◼
►
thought you'd say Brady when you bring
◼
►
stuff to me especially when you bring
◼
►
stuff from listeners I never know what's
◼
►
going to happen and I always feel
◼
►
slightly apprehensive no sigh well yeah
◼
►
I'm something big because there is a
◼
►
plague that is spreading through the
◼
►
world Brady and that plagues name is
◼
►
bitmoji yeah bit mochi yep and I know
◼
►
you know what bitmoji are huh
◼
►
because you created one as well recently
◼
►
hey I've had mine for a while I just
◼
►
never send it to you yeah as you know
◼
►
better yeah I think that's why bitmoji
◼
►
it's a company that's obviously decided
◼
►
the regular emoji not enough and so what
◼
►
they allow you to do is you can create
◼
►
little avatar of yourself and then this
◼
►
app will allow you to place that avatar
◼
►
in a bazillion situations so it was like
◼
►
you're creating a custom mochi for
◼
►
everything that's possible Under the Sun
◼
►
would you say that's a fair description
◼
►
of what the bitmoji are it's kind of
◼
►
fair the only thing that's not fair
◼
►
about it and I think this is a problem
◼
►
with the name maybe is it's not like a
◼
►
replacement for emojis to me it's just a
◼
►
different toy it's just a different fun
◼
►
things yeah they're using the the Apple
◼
►
sticker method they're not really emoji
◼
►
like bitmoji is a good name but it there
◼
►
are custom stickers but I think that
◼
►
when people use bitmoji they often start
◼
►
to displace the regular emoji so what
◼
►
you could do so people can better
◼
►
understand if grey said let's meet at 4
◼
►
o'clock and maybe I would send him an
◼
►
emoji of just a thumbs up instead I
◼
►
could send him this customized a little
◼
►
Brady that looks just like me riding a
◼
►
horse saying yes let's do it or
◼
►
something like that right these things
◼
►
are awful they're terrible I would love
◼
►
to say one of you I'm gonna design one
◼
►
to look like you just to see if I can do
◼
►
do not Brady I am it no you know I won't
◼
►
put it out there because it'll look so
◼
►
much like II that that would be unfair
◼
►
for spoilers but I'm gonna make one just
◼
►
as my own little project great have you
◼
►
tried to make one look like you no of
◼
►
course I haven't tried to make one look
◼
►
like me I mean look here's this thing
◼
►
these bitmoji they're just like a
◼
►
nightmare from an episode of Black
◼
►
Mirror these are so close to the little
◼
►
avatars in 15 million merits which is
◼
►
still my favorite black mirror episode I
◼
►
swear to God when people send them to me
◼
►
they make me sad they really do like I
◼
►
was on a thread recently with a bunch of
◼
►
people and it's like oh this is supposed
◼
►
to be like a happy event and everybody
◼
►
is expressing their emotions through the
◼
►
bitmoji maybe there's something wrong
◼
►
with me but I feel like it sucks all of
◼
►
the genuine emotion out of the world
◼
►
like even emojis regular emojis do this
◼
►
to some acquitted out like there's a way
◼
►
that they kind of suck out emotion in
◼
►
the bitmoji is like more and more people
◼
►
are using them and because they're
◼
►
customizable for every situation you see
◼
►
them all the time and I'd like they make
◼
►
me sad and seeing people use them to
◼
►
express thoughts a lot it's like I hate
◼
►
them I hate them so much
◼
►
and they're creepy they're so creepy and
◼
►
I had to endure this longest hour of my
◼
►
life when my wife finally got sucked up
◼
►
in the bitmoji thing and she was
◼
►
creating her own bitmoji avatar she's
◼
►
good at though she's good at it
◼
►
she kept asking me does this one look
◼
►
more like me whenever she would show me
◼
►
one it's like that doesn't look like you
◼
►
that looks like an uncanny valley
◼
►
nightmare version of you the thing I
◼
►
don't get as well is that like almost
◼
►
all the women I know they're bitmoji
◼
►
look exactly the same whereas the men I
◼
►
know like that kind of looks like them
◼
►
and I don't know why that is
◼
►
I can't figure out why it is but like I
◼
►
know three or four women who use bitmoji
◼
►
all look the same it could be any of
◼
►
them my wasn't happy with hers and I
◼
►
said what do you think of mine she's
◼
►
like yes yours looks just like you like
◼
►
angrily she said has more options or
◼
►
something but I don't know why this has
◼
►
happened but it feels like it has
◼
►
happened I'll tell you that bitmoji app
◼
►
is not short on options though my wife
◼
►
was doing this on the iPad so she could
◼
►
have like the full palette of everything
◼
►
I couldn't believe like the enormous
◼
►
number of options to be able to maintain
◼
►
different noises and oh 19 we would be
◼
►
blessed with but 19 noses to go through
◼
►
right there were hundreds of noses she's
◼
►
like is this one more like me or is this
◼
►
one more than me like I don't like any
◼
►
of them they all make me uncomfortable
◼
►
it's all securely in the uncanny valley
◼
►
please never send this to me ever it
◼
►
will make me sad I don't like it but
◼
►
they just keep spreading and people keep
◼
►
using them I want them to go away but
◼
►
they won't it's too much like it's too
◼
►
far I feel like the constraint of but
◼
►
like 200 regular emojis is almost good
◼
►
for people it's like it's too adaptable
◼
►
and then people use it for everything
◼
►
and it it makes me die a little inside
◼
►
says the man who portrays himself
◼
►
publicly and videos with an animated
◼
►
stick figure and face and doing key
◼
►
things yeah in my youtube videos which
◼
►
are produced like I'm not when we text
◼
►
Brady I don't quickly in Inkscape whip
◼
►
together and exactly correct CGP grey to
◼
►
be a response to everything that you do
◼
►
know it's is totally different don't
◼
►
even try to compare it like those things
◼
►
are the same and also I don't think the
◼
►
stick figure has like the creepy creepy
◼
►
Dead Eye uncanny valley nests of these
◼
►
bitmoji 's don't you agree with me
◼
►
aren't they unsettling in the way that
◼
►
they look no I don't agree with you they
◼
►
don't unsettle me go to bitmoji comm and
◼
►
look upon the nightmare that stares back
◼
►
at you from the top of that page I'm
◼
►
gonna make a CGP grey one I tell you why
◼
►
I could see it to be a green one you
◼
►
actually physically cannot stop me it's
◼
►
impossible I can't believe your wife
◼
►
didn't make one of you and said looks
◼
►
like you because she respected my
◼
►
desires and she knows never to send me
◼
►
the bit mode I don't even like seeing
◼
►
her using the bitmoji talking with other
◼
►
people I just like I don't want to see
◼
►
them they're creepy and they're weird
◼
►
and my wife respects my desires unlike
◼
►
my podcast co-host he was probably right
◼
►
now giggling on his phone making a
◼
►
bitmoji of me I'm looking at the front
◼
►
page of the bitmoji website and there's
◼
►
a one that looks a bit like me maybe
◼
►
these are random I have no idea which
◼
►
one you think looks like you that really
◼
►
had someone the winking guy is that the
◼
►
one who you think looks like you to the
◼
►
no it doesn't look a bit like you and if
◼
►
it did look like you it would only look
◼
►
like you in a nightmare world where
◼
►
we're all trapped and emotionally
◼
►
separated from each other riding on
◼
►
bicycles all day long for pretend points
◼
►
that's the way it would look like you
◼
►
and that one on the left is the one that
◼
►
looks like all the people I know who use
◼
►
it generic brown hair go bitmoji thumbs
◼
►
down they're terrifying hello Internet
◼
►
if you are someone who bills by the hour
◼
►
here's a quick mental calculation that
◼
►
might leave you unsettled
◼
►
how much of your time in a day are you
◼
►
losing to having to complete annoying
◼
►
paperwork and admin tasks how about in a
◼
►
our friends at fresh book calculate that
◼
►
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a hundred and ninety two hours in a year
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simply by using fresh books so if you
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about a section and get back many
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billable hours for your business let's
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go to a less controversial subject that
◼
►
won't upset you as much as bitmoji grade
◼
►
let's talk about not cease Brady this is
◼
►
an interesting new story that's been
◼
►
doing the rounds this caught your eye
◼
►
did no it did catch my eye I feel like
◼
►
bitmoji not see pugs things going on
◼
►
with Facebook things going on with
◼
►
YouTube I'm at a low point with my
◼
►
thoughts about people and the internet
◼
►
and what the internet does to people and
◼
►
vice versa it's all a terrible mess
◼
►
there has been a sort of conclusion to a
◼
►
story which to me is a terrifying story
◼
►
let me try to summarize it is a story
◼
►
about a Nazi pug as in a little dog hmm
◼
►
this guy up in Scotland count Deng Cola
◼
►
is his online name I don't know what his
◼
►
actual name is because count Acula is
◼
►
way easier to remember he made a video
◼
►
for youtube where he trained his
◼
►
girlfriend's pug to be excited and do a
◼
►
little Nazi salutes upon hearing
◼
►
particular phrases particular phrases
◼
►
you would expect Nazis to say so he put
◼
►
together this video and he sets it up as
◼
►
a joke like it's yeah there is this
◼
►
little bit of a story that people always
◼
►
say when they upload videos to YouTube
◼
►
with like oh I only expected a few of my
◼
►
friends to see a thing and then like it
◼
►
went viral and I had no idea that it
◼
►
would I'm not entirely sure that I
◼
►
believed that because that's like a
◼
►
standard story that everybody says like
◼
►
I kind of think that the guy did expect
◼
►
it was gonna be a bit of a viral video
◼
►
but he sets it up in the beginning that
◼
►
like he is playing a joke on his
◼
►
girlfriend who the pug belongs to yeah
◼
►
that the pug is super cute and his
◼
►
girlfriend is always talking about the
◼
►
pug and loves the pug so much that like
◼
►
she's on vacation or something and while
◼
►
she's gone he's gonna train the dog
◼
►
right on like zig Heil that's going to
◼
►
put up its little paw in a Nazi salute
◼
►
which you can almost say the dark humor
◼
►
of car he like that is this dog's the
◼
►
apple of her eye and he turns into this
◼
►
leg yeah it's pretty twisted but you sit
◼
►
there is that twisted brand of humor
◼
►
that exists yes there is a choice of
◼
►
brand of humor that exists and there's
◼
►
this weird thing where everybody feels
◼
►
like they need to like distance
◼
►
themselves a little bit from it like
◼
►
when I saw this video like it's funny
◼
►
like it's a funny joke and people have
◼
►
to pretend like it's not funny but guess
◼
►
what like part of humor is surprise and
◼
►
unexpected juxtapositions of things
◼
►
right and so like he films a shot where
◼
►
it's like pretending like the dog is
◼
►
watching a Nazi rally on TV and like
◼
►
that's a funny shot because of course
◼
►
like the pug doesn't know anything about
◼
►
what's going on like he's just setting
◼
►
up a frame yeah these are jokes and he
◼
►
sets it up as a joke but what has
◼
►
happened in the UK is that
◼
►
the UK has less freedom of speech laws
◼
►
than the United States does and there
◼
►
are more caveats and this guy counting
◼
►
Kela has been convicted guilty of I
◼
►
forget exactly what it is but it's like
◼
►
spreading obscene messages over the
◼
►
Internet he's been found guilty as of
◼
►
the time of recording the sentencing
◼
►
hasn't occurred the sentencing is going
◼
►
to happen in a couple of weeks but he is
◼
►
facing prison time over a viral video
◼
►
where he trains a dog to raise its paw
◼
►
on particular commands and I think this
◼
►
is just terrifying I agree it's
◼
►
terrifying and I wonder him what'd he
◼
►
say about it just to be clear though
◼
►
it's not the fact that dog raises poor
◼
►
that's got him in trouble it's like the
◼
►
phrase he's repeating isn't it yeah okay
◼
►
but so can I say the phrase are you
◼
►
afraid to say the phrase Brady I think
◼
►
he should not have said use that phrase
◼
►
so one of the phrases that he uses in
◼
►
the video is he says hi future gray here
◼
►
stepping in for a moment I wouldn't
◼
►
normally do this but it is a special
◼
►
occasion since we recorded this episode
◼
►
I looked into more of the specifics
◼
►
around this law and this ruling and haha
◼
►
turns out that the judge did know it was
◼
►
a joke but the way the obscenity law is
◼
►
written in the UK allows judges to
◼
►
ignore that factor it seems to allow
◼
►
judges to ignore all context around the
◼
►
literal words that are spoken in
◼
►
isolation from everything else which
◼
►
seems to make it impossible to talk
◼
►
about the bad ruling of an obscenity
◼
►
case without also exposing yourself to
◼
►
the very same obscenity law that you're
◼
►
talking about which makes this just a
◼
►
rather breathtaking catch-22 / Brazil
◼
►
level law so anyway here we are
◼
►
future gray is going back and cutting
◼
►
off past gray and thus this very
◼
►
conversation becomes an example of what
◼
►
we end up talking about later in the
◼
►
conversation in the video as he says
◼
►
and the Pug sits up and looks interested
◼
►
like he's obviously been giving the dog
◼
►
treats for that phrase right clearly
◼
►
this to me is the thing where there's
◼
►
something I find kind of awful in the
◼
►
world where everybody's like oh well I
◼
►
don't agree with the sentiment of that
◼
►
phrase it's like of course nobody agrees
◼
►
with the sentiment of that phrase who
◼
►
agrees with that nobody everybody feels
◼
►
like of course we want to distance
◼
►
ourselves from that but the actual
◼
►
question here is should you be able to
◼
►
put someone in prison for these actions
◼
►
prison where we physically remove
◼
►
someone from society for what they have
◼
►
done I think this is terrible I think
◼
►
this is really one of the worst things
◼
►
in UK law I have come across in the
◼
►
years that I have lived here because
◼
►
this is like such an incredible chilling
◼
►
effect that it comes down to like a
◼
►
judge thought that this is obscene and
◼
►
so finds him guilty of communicating
◼
►
obscenely over the Internet man if
◼
►
that's the case there are plenty of
◼
►
other UK youtubers who should like be in
◼
►
prison over similar kinds of things and
◼
►
everyone on Retta yeah like next time
◼
►
Mel Brooks lands in the UK straight to
◼
►
prison he's going to go because he made
◼
►
the producers an entire movie which is
◼
►
is nothing but Nazi jokes right all the
◼
►
way through I don't know I find this
◼
►
genuinely terrifying because it opens
◼
►
the door to this idea that if the legal
◼
►
system doesn't like what you say it can
◼
►
put you in prison and what does it mean
◼
►
to say that something's obscene this
◼
►
video where a dude is training a dog to
◼
►
do the zig heil like I don't think we
◼
►
should put people in prison for that
◼
►
whether or not you think it's a funny
◼
►
joke whether or not you think the guy
◼
►
should have done it whether or not we
◼
►
think like oh well I don't agree with
◼
►
the phrase that he uses in like a
◼
►
schoolmarm kind of way
◼
►
like I don't think that that is
◼
►
justification to put someone in prison
◼
►
like it has such an incredible chilling
◼
►
effect on speech I don't know I find it
◼
►
just deeply deeply upsetting that this
◼
►
has occurred as always with these things
◼
►
like you find yourself like ok I have to
◼
►
defend the guy who like made a video
◼
►
about a Nazi pug but it's never the
◼
►
thing like it's the system that it
◼
►
allows like it is a precedent of putting
◼
►
people in prison for saying things that
◼
►
is really dangerous I really don't like
◼
►
it and it makes me deeply uncomfortable
◼
►
with the way the laws are in the UK I
◼
►
agree with you you know whether you
◼
►
thought it was funny or not I liked the
◼
►
video was kind of funny
◼
►
yeah but you know some people have
◼
►
problems with that really
◼
►
confrontational humor like comedians
◼
►
like Frankie Boyle and people like that
◼
►
use and some people really enjoy it I
◼
►
think it's ridiculous I don't think he's
◼
►
committed a crime and it's an injustice
◼
►
there are two caveats though there are
◼
►
two things that I do feel more strongly
◼
►
about that I think we can be a bit lacks
◼
►
about on the internet that I do think
◼
►
should be punished one is if you are
◼
►
harassing an individual hmm and I think
◼
►
a lot of that happens on the Internet
◼
►
where people like say things and harass
◼
►
individuals and people that you know
◼
►
it's free speech I can say whatever I
◼
►
want on on the Internet and then I think
◼
►
if you're targeting a person I think
◼
►
that's unfair and I think we need to
◼
►
start getting stricter about that
◼
►
because I don't like seeing people being
◼
►
harassed like that and the other thing
◼
►
is if he had been inciting people with
◼
►
what he was doing if he was trying to
◼
►
incite you know anti-semitism or
◼
►
something with the video then I think
◼
►
maybe it needs to be looked at but he
◼
►
clearly wasn't doing that so this this
◼
►
does not apply to this person but I
◼
►
think if you were making you know
◼
►
Holocaust jokes with the intent of
◼
►
inciting racial hatred then that can
◼
►
start having like real-world
◼
►
repercussions and people can start
◼
►
getting hurt and when that happens I
◼
►
think you know we need to protect people
◼
►
in society I agree with you there but I
◼
►
I feel just extraordinarily cautious
◼
►
this idea individuals I'll agree like if
◼
►
you are harassing an individual online
◼
►
there's a place where there are some
◼
►
kind of repercussions there
◼
►
although again in our society when you
◼
►
talk about people who are public figures
◼
►
all of that just goes out the window and
◼
►
we're like oh no then it's fine right
◼
►
yeah you know like if a person's in
◼
►
public like that screw that like they
◼
►
don't deserve any protections which like
◼
►
maybe make sense and maybe doesn't but
◼
►
even then like starts to blur the
◼
►
boundaries of this like even that is not
◼
►
as crystal clear and I also agree with
◼
►
direct incitement to violence but I also
◼
►
find like in conversations with people
◼
►
that there's a thing that happens where
◼
►
people do a kind of mind-reading where
◼
►
they assume intentions of when people
◼
►
are saying things and it's like hmm my
◼
►
feeling is like a direct incitement to
◼
►
violence is a direct incitement to
◼
►
violence like it is someone calling like
◼
►
for an attack on a specific person or a
◼
►
specific group like I think what this
◼
►
guy got in trouble for is exactly that
◼
►
blurry boundary what you're saying where
◼
►
it's like oh when someone's making jokes
◼
►
and it's jokes that are to incite
◼
►
violence like that's kind of clearly
◼
►
what the judge was thinking in this case
◼
►
is like oh yeah this guy's making jokes
◼
►
but he's making jokes and this is like
◼
►
promoting hatred in the UK you can't pin
◼
►
that on me of course because I think
◼
►
that judgment is absolutely ridiculous
◼
►
oh no yeah no I agree with you I know
◼
►
that in the case of Kant Dacula
◼
►
that the judge decided it wasn't like a
◼
►
joke and how anyone could watch that and
◼
►
not think that was a joke is completely
◼
►
beyond me I wasn't saying that you were
◼
►
saying that I'm simply saying that so
◼
►
you read the section of the law that he
◼
►
gets convicted under and it's one of
◼
►
these things where it's like oh it's
◼
►
illegal to communicate like obscene
◼
►
language across the internet what does
◼
►
that mean and that's why I think like
◼
►
the standard has to be incredibly high
◼
►
like a person has made a statement that
◼
►
any child could agree is like a direct
◼
►
threat against a particular person and
◼
►
it's not like oh well this person is
◼
►
contributing to like a general overall
◼
►
feeling in society this way like through