The Incomparable

124: Hobbit Hanukkah

 

  speak to us an Elvish clan O'Sullivan [TS]

  pen and Muriel oh dear algebra haha we [TS]

  did it away that's going on [TS]

  the incontrovertible number 124 Johnny [TS]

  week 2013 welcome back to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

  Snell and tonight's topic is going to be [TS]

  a series of movies based on a series of [TS]

  books or depending on how you want to [TS]

  view it moved a really really really [TS]

  really really long movie released in [TS]

  parts based on a book that was really [TS]

  long and also released in parts [TS]

  yes we're going to talk about the lord [TS]

  of the rings and although we may touch [TS]

  on the book here and there this is not [TS]

  an episode about the book so much as it [TS]

  is an episode about the movies I suppose [TS]

  we can reserve the JRR Tolkien's books [TS]

  for for a different podcast a different [TS]

  episode in like 20 18 but in the [TS]

  meantime we're going to talk about the [TS]

  movies I do have my thousand-page got a [TS]

  single volume bound paperback copy of [TS]

  Lord of the Rings here so that i can [TS]

  read the songs of tom bombadil from it [TS]

  and sing some elvish later but before we [TS]

  get to that i'd like to introduce my [TS]

  guests who are joining me on this [TS]

  journey that may take about 11 hours to [TS]

  complete my first my first member of our [TS]

  little fellowship tonight is Glenn [TS]

  fleischmann hi glenn miller Lauren [TS]

  watermelon [TS]

  oh hello it's good to hear from you [TS]

  although i don't understand what the [TS]

  heck you're talking about you so you've [TS]

  watched the movies that make any sense [TS]

  no I'm with a glad to read the books yes [TS]

  I think your frogs and like speak friend [TS]

  and answer i don't speak elvish Glenn [TS]

  it's a foreign language I don't speak [TS]

  foreign languages besides which I was [TS]

  too busy worrying about the monster that [TS]

  was obviously in the pool but we'll get [TS]

  to that [TS]

  also on my fellowship although i'm [TS]

  suspicious heaps in the ring he may be [TS]

  after its indian taco hi Andy [TS]

  well i watch the movie and that didn't [TS]

  make any sense and i'm referring to the [TS]

  movies and not what Glenn had said [TS]

  fair enough either way really thank you [TS]

  for you for making me for making me [TS]

  watch like all 10 hours again which I [TS]

  legitimately was a good thing because [TS]

  I'd rather actually much much of these [TS]

  DVD sets that never actually watched [TS]

  because I've never actually [TS]

  I i went bought the first movie I got [TS]

  through the whole thing i bought the [TS]

  second movie and I got through about [TS]

  half of it and just never got around to [TS]

  the rest of it but the third movie kind [TS]

  of started it and zip to the ending I [TS]

  wanted to see that part where where [TS]

  where it go with your photo has to go [TS]

  away and I have to cry because the girl [TS]

  from the original mix of Angel of any [TS]

  Lennox is starting to sing on me cry but [TS]

  I this is the first time I've actually [TS]

  sat down and watched all three of these [TS]

  movies so this was a good i didn't make [TS]

  the reason you you volunteered you knew [TS]

  the job was dangerous when you took it [TS]

  you were the enzyme to the latticed [TS]

  protein of Lord of the Rings viewership [TS]

  alright i'll accept that that's what [TS]

  character but you know I'm i believe in [TS]

  free will also joining me on this [TS]

  Fellowship is my my my good friend from [TS]

  the Shire who likes to keep me company [TS]

  and occasionally polish my shoes it [TS]

  stand more in hi Dan [TS]

  no sorry mr. Jason give me some fried up [TS]

  some rabbit [TS]

  ok with some cojones we're going to make [TS]

  it to the end of this podcast uh well I [TS]

  was that way to a stupid voice and yet [TS]

  and yet there don't want anyways there [TS]

  it is [TS]

  blame you this part guess we'll all will [TS]

  all be be dead by the end of this [TS]

  podcast and is there is there anybody I [TS]

  have a field is why is it is the most [TS]

  important member of the fellowship he's [TS]

  our gray wizard it's john siracusa i [TS]

  think i am at all so i guess that [TS]

  qualifies for the hand that gives make [TS]

  sure I'd it does the point yet like Andy [TS]

  I think this is the first time I cracked [TS]

  open the super duper extra long bladder [TS]

  Buster edition of these movies that i [TS]

  have on blu-ray and went through the [TS]

  mall so uh how can I help it was worth [TS]

  it and I watch them all in one day is my [TS]

  third or fourth time watching the [TS]

  extended ones you definitely wearing [TS]

  your astronaut underwear for to get [TS]

  through these movies are you get his [TS]

  paws one of the other I guess before we [TS]

  get into the the details of the movies i [TS]

  wanted to go around and ask everybody [TS]

  what their what their experience [TS]

  watching them was and we touched on a [TS]

  little bit right here which is you did [TS]

  you see him [TS]

  did you see them in the movie theater [TS]

  have you watched them on video [TS]

  obviously there are these extended [TS]

  editions that are available on video as [TS]

  well as the theatrical edition so there [TS]

  are lots of different ways you can you [TS]

  can view these movies and given how long [TS]

  they are do you watch them across a few [TS]

  days three days six days something like [TS]

  that or where do you put in the [TS]

  astronaut underwear and just get it all [TS]

  done get er done [TS]

  I Glenn what about you well I saw the [TS]

  original releases in the movies theaters [TS]

  is and be steelers expression is already [TS]

  planning services and then when the [TS]

  extended versions came out I got those [TS]

  immediately because I'd I got the [TS]

  fellowship first and i thought that even [TS]

  the movies in theaters were pretty long [TS]

  to begin with I actually didn't think [TS]

  there were extra dimensions that made [TS]

  the sort of interminable battle scenes [TS]

  in some of the films and the walking and [TS]

  so forth more bearable because it was [TS]

  more of the mythology and more salty [TS]

  that they put back in so I've watched i [TS]

  have three extended editions in indy [TS]

  deform and watch those several times i [TS]

  think at least i think the most recent [TS]

  watches maybe the third or fourth time [TS]

  I've watched them and made a lot more [TS]

  fast-forwarding this time around I [TS]

  haven't previously yeah it was it was a [TS]

  tough one for me I think that [TS]

  psychologically would've been better if [TS]

  it had been set up like Game of Thrones [TS]

  where they if they had cut the movie [TS]

  into like hour-long episodes where [TS]

  mentally you know that you don't have to [TS]

  keep your brain cpu overclock following [TS]

  all these pull all the plot and all [TS]

  these characters all these locations [TS]

  because at the end of one hour there's [TS]

  going to be a break at the end that's [TS]

  when there's going to be sort of a [TS]

  natural bounce recap at the beginning [TS]

  it's not in the previous episode of The [TS]

  Lord of the Rings is going to be going [TS]

  to accept that they did just like in [TS]

  boardwalk empire they always start the [TS]

  depth and the episode with an old-timey [TS]

  1920 song montage of like here's where [TS]

  we are right now here's what's going on [TS]

  in Chicago and here's what's going on in [TS]

  New York City [TS]

  ok i remember that's the Rothstein guy [TS]

  he's going to he's going to try to get [TS]

  into the heroin business good about that [TS]

  and I'm situated and nowhere [TS]

  where I am it is even when you're [TS]

  sitting at home and you're trying to get [TS]

  through these movies there's like oh [TS]

  another really really dark place filled [TS]

  with really grimy looking people who are [TS]

  turning on each other [TS]

  okay well only way through it is through [TS]

  it let's do it [TS]

  I i did see all the movies in the [TS]

  theater first I I just it'sit's set [TS]

  there's such as a mental marathon isn't [TS]

  it because I i never i have the exact [TS]

  same problem when i read the books as a [TS]

  kid I read the hobbit love the hobbit [TS]

  and so the next thing is oh my god I'm [TS]

  gonna get this three-volume slipcase [TS]

  version of this either the the next move [TS]

  the books in the series and I think I [TS]

  got most of the way through the first [TS]

  one and it's like it's like in many [TS]

  cases it's like walking through thick [TS]

  mud you can do it but after you kill [TS]

  your initial momentum [TS]

  it's just lift the leg move it forward [TS]

  planted down lift the other leg move it [TS]

  forward planted down and I just never [TS]

  got that sort of momentum going in the [TS]

  books and with the movies [TS]

  it's kind of the same way we're just my [TS]

  brain cannot keep track of all these [TS]

  things that are going on and why who has [TS]

  the football in the in this movie who [TS]

  had is it supposedly about just the ring [TS]

  that has to get back and you gotta slam [TS]

  dunk it into the into the volcano the [TS]

  lava but why are we seeing these other [TS]

  things and who what's what what pieces [TS]

  are being subtle and fitting together i [TS]

  did enjoy it but man I really you really [TS]

  have to focus and work on this to keep [TS]

  the brain moving to make sure you can [TS]

  follow these things that's what I was a [TS]

  little bit tough for me for there's a [TS]

  lot going on here and I i want to see [TS]

  how everybody else is also viewed these [TS]

  i'll say that I do wonder if you [TS]

  mentioned Andy the idea of a if this was [TS]

  an HBO series instead of a a bunch of [TS]

  long movies i don't know i was on the [TS]

  theater the first time since then only [TS]

  on video only the extended edition and [TS]

  we do the extended edition the movies [TS]

  are so long that they're broken up [TS]

  across discs so there are six discs for [TS]

  all of lord of the rings and for the [TS]

  first time this year my my kids watch [TS]

  with us but previously my wife and I [TS]

  would watch it [TS]

  not necessarily every year at the end of [TS]

  the year during the holidays but almost [TS]

  just almost and we watching across six [TS]

  nights which i like to call Hobbit [TS]

  Hanukkah 266 night celebration and you [TS]

  know what [TS]

  in six hour and a half ish installments [TS]

  it I it really works for me I I it's [TS]

  enough but not so much that I feel like [TS]

  it's slog and if i watch them over the [TS]

  course of six nights or seven or eight [TS]

  nights but not one a week or something [TS]

  like that I can keep the story straight [TS]

  and I know where we were when we left [TS]

  off and it works it's the only movie [TS]

  that I do like that but it [TS]

  I don't think I could bear to watch it [TS]

  in one sitting but as a miniseries [TS]

  essentially a six-night miniseries I it [TS]

  it works for me i would ask dan and and [TS]

  John but there are you know what they're [TS]

  viewing methodology was Fitz crazy crazy [TS]

  work Dan well the first time I saw them [TS]

  each in the amphitheater and before the [TS]

  return of the king theatrical showing at [TS]

  the time I was working in IT so I [TS]

  borrowed a projector from work and we [TS]

  marathons the first two before going to [TS]

  an evening showing of return of the king [TS]

  and in between then i think maybe I've [TS]

  seen the extended editions once in the [TS]

  interviewing almost I guess decade now [TS]

  yeah so this was the first time I'd [TS]

  watch them in a really long time and [TS]

  watch them all on different nights so [TS]

  split them up one movie / night over [TS]

  three nights but it was over the course [TS]

  of a couple I we watched the first two [TS]

  pretty close together and then the third [TS]

  one I kept having to put off due to [TS]

  scheduling stuff but just just finished [TS]

  it before right before this podcast [TS]

  started recording remember did some [TS]

  theater show like I think in seattle [TS]

  someone showed me cinerama the great [TS]

  restored theater like the entire [TS]

  extended thing as a one-day deal with [TS]

  breaks like I don't know what you paid [TS]

  for to see it but like the entire thing [TS]

  in one you know 12 hour session when I [TS]

  would that wouldn't surprise me I mean I [TS]

  feel like there's plenty of places that [TS]

  would that would likely do something [TS]

  like that yeah I can't even imagine what [TS]

  the young people do that people do the [TS]

  they did that for the dark knight right [TS]

  where they did the dated batman begins [TS]

  and dark knight returns and dark knight [TS]

  rises in a [TS]

  one day i just-i can't-- that's a lot [TS]

  that day [TS]

  that's good horse or cow yeah yeah I'm [TS]

  sure does [TS]

  John what about you what's your viewing [TS]

  method for this for this thing but I saw [TS]

  them originally in the theater you know [TS]

  when they're right first run and I have [TS]

  the extended DVDs which I watched once i [TS]

  believe and then I had the extended blu [TS]

  rays which I've now watch once I cheated [TS]

  as I usually do by using my children [TS]

  because i had showed them the [TS]

  rankin/bass a hobbit cartoon because I [TS]

  figured it wasn't too scary [TS]

  sure I'm just you know just to get them [TS]

  into I i have that i have a certain [TS]

  fondness for that carter and i will say [TS]

  that the only thing I remember about [TS]

  that entire thing is is is that the one [TS]

  with the song they're all with the side [TS]

  is the photo of the nine fingers had the [TS]

  ring of do that's better that's [TS]

  backsheet that's the lord of the rings [TS]

  one sometime Republican all right over [TS]

  the ranked battles are brutal [TS]

  alright okay we blown our photo of the [TS]

  nine fingers way too early then I didn't [TS]

  show the ones with the road scoping the [TS]

  creepy room scooping up but yes I [TS]

  shouldn't have to get them into it and [TS]

  then I tried showing my son fellowship a [TS]

  while back but it was the once the race [TS]

  came on so it's two squares as many [TS]

  years ago so that I try to get now it's [TS]

  bluray and he liked it and so I watch [TS]

  all then with him and it was broken up [TS]

  by his bedtime basically because we [TS]

  would watch and then you have to go to [TS]

  bed and then the next day we watch a [TS]

  little more than you have to go to bed [TS]

  and I don't know how many days it took [TS]

  us because we weren't even completing [TS]

  like old disks or have to school just [TS]

  like a little bit of time between well [TS]

  that's like a hobbit ramadan it just [TS]

  lets it out it went on many many days [TS]

  but at a certain but he really wanted to [TS]

  know how the story ended so he was [TS]

  always like we got can watch more that [TS]

  could watch for that movie and he had no [TS]

  conception over like how many movies it [TS]

  was or how many discs to eat he thought [TS]

  it was just one big long movie I told [TS]

  know it's like six discs like oh alright [TS]

  well as the more can watch more so he [TS]

  found engage anyway that's how i watch [TS]

  it the third time I guess so [TS]

  in the theater once and then DVD and [TS]

  blu-ray blu-ray installment plan with [TS]

  your son never enough and that and that [TS]

  really does make it more enjoyable you [TS]

  know you're watching with somebody who [TS]

  actually did the hard ends right and it [TS]

  yeah engage all got so watching with [TS]

  with my kids this time [TS]

  uh they well they like when when gandalf [TS]

  plunges off the off the bridge [TS]

  yes it was very very unexpected to if [TS]

  they're yes they're quite upset and I'm [TS]

  I'm sorry bro this is great I've i'm [TS]

  watching it work right i'm watching I'm [TS]

  watching their that you know because [TS]

  they thought that was it for him [TS]

  apple Sam again yeah that's well that's [TS]

  that's really powerful i mean i remember [TS]

  i do recall i actually did watch [TS]

  fellowship of the ring with a my cousins [TS]

  and their daughters who are kind of you [TS]

  know probably around 10 or 11 at the [TS]

  time and I remember their visceral [TS]

  reaction at the end of fellowship when [TS]

  Boromir gets shot which is a great scene [TS]

  is really dramatically and they were [TS]

  like physically like you know shock yes [TS]

  they were twitching like oh my god you [TS]

  know because they did it does do a good [TS]

  job of building those you know it does a [TS]

  good job of painting those characters [TS]

  and they feel you know they really like [TS]

  them i think yeah although my kids said [TS]

  that they they didn't like Boromir say [TS]

  they totally be totally pick up on him [TS]

  the bag him being portrayed as being not [TS]

  that great a guy but they said they [TS]

  didn't like him until he died then they [TS]

  like too many felt bad for him right he [TS]

  could easily read yeah i mean that's [TS]

  exactly what they're going to realize [TS]

  your vagina fascinating to see it work [TS]

  right now I definitely watch the Machine [TS]

  return and watch my kids take that [TS]

  journey and get to the point where [TS]

  they're like oh I never liked him and I [TS]

  feel sad that he's dead yeah it's nice [TS]

  because as adults I feel like we're all [TS]

  kind of jaded oh yeah you know [TS]

  especially for most of us you read these [TS]

  stories as kids and then saw the movies [TS]

  come out and so it's nice to be its [TS]

  being able to see it through fresh eyes [TS]

  is kind of it's a nice touch but there's [TS]

  a worthwhile point to make here too is [TS]

  that the difference [TS]

  I mean you know there's obviously always [TS]

  differences between the book and movie [TS]

  and plot and not that part but in the [TS]

  book Boromir does not appear that much [TS]

  in the movie he's always on screen so [TS]

  he's always glowering looking fingering [TS]

  his sword thinking ring like Assange is [TS]

  Charlene is just so damn good-looking [TS]

  but in the books you know you really go [TS]

  for page at a time which border has no [TS]

  part except to defend the hobbits are [TS]

  run down a hallway [TS]

  more like boring mirror haha burn but [TS]

  there is that point that that it went [TS]

  when you have to visually portray nine [TS]

  people together for this long period of [TS]

  time [TS]

  it's a different experience reading a [TS]

  book [TS]

  in which that person is not somebody [TS]

  born here comes across as much means [TS]

  played as more scheming and and [TS]

  malleable and weak in the book in the [TS]

  movie than the book as well but I think [TS]

  we just see them all the time they have [TS]

  to have something that is business but [TS]

  the problem with that is that we sit in [TS]

  the context of a book almost anything is [TS]

  possible because there's so much variety [TS]

  and how book is plotted how characters [TS]

  are taken from the start to the ending [TS]

  in a movie [TS]

  there's almost everything falls into a [TS]

  very common trope and again i'm saying [TS]

  outright the the said earlier that i had [TS]

  not read the the the trilogy books only [TS]

  read the hobbit from start to finish and [TS]

  I'd sort of football Boromir into okay [TS]

  so they're setting him up as the guy [TS]

  that's gonna cause trouble for the party [TS]

  that's gonna be the constant danger but [TS]

  there's going to be a redeeming moment [TS]

  and probably he's gonna die to add to [TS]

  illustrate to the audience how high the [TS]

  stakes were for the whole thing and it [TS]

  wasn't because i think that the the [TS]

  books are poorly written and I think it [TS]

  was because this is how i parse a movie [TS]

  there's a point which you drop that [TS]

  penny and I can I can't help but hear it [TS]

  will bring against the tiles you know [TS]

  there's a textual shorthand you know [TS]

  there's a narrative shorthand that we've [TS]

  all become accustomed to because we all [TS]

  see how the machinery works so yeah i [TS]

  mean i agree i mean i think there is a [TS]

  there's a certain amount of [TS]

  predictability to that but again you [TS]

  know different seen through are jaded [TS]

  eyes than seen through the eyes of [TS]

  someone who is not as familiar with the [TS]

  that formulaic progression sure line and [TS]

  talking I mean so much so much fantasy [TS]

  is has come from talking that it's hard [TS]

  it's like you know it's what any of [TS]

  these things where somebody does [TS]

  something really innovative but from the [TS]

  perspective of 50 years later it doesn't [TS]

  appear very innovative it's because [TS]

  everybody copied it it was so innovative [TS]

  so amazing and then in hindsight it [TS]

  looks like it's just one of the pack [TS]

  when but no no it was first and and with [TS]

  that you know we've got the the plot [TS]

  mechanisms here and a lot of the [TS]

  trappings of this world are things that [TS]

  we know if we've seen a lot of movies [TS]

  and read a lot of books especially [TS]

  fantasy books and i was struck in in [TS]

  watching with my kids that with off with [TS]

  a fresh pair of eyes I mean they were [TS]

  kind of enthralled and they have they [TS]

  haven't seen a lot of stories like this [TS]

  and they you know it it was impossible [TS]

  for me to watch this movie even the [TS]

  first time without thinking of the books [TS]

  at least I I another aspect that I'd [TS]

  like to get into is people's [TS]

  relationships with the with the source [TS]

  material because for a lot of people [TS]

  the books are something that you read a [TS]

  lot i think john has read it multiple [TS]

  times on very small electronic devices [TS]

  is true and for some people it say that [TS]

  you know the books are an incredible [TS]

  part of their their childhood memories [TS]

  are adolescent memories i bought the [TS]

  book the version I've got in my hand [TS]

  right now in two thousand when i was in [TS]

  london and i read it in two thousand and [TS]

  I've never read it before so I didn't [TS]

  read until I was 30 years old and and as [TS]

  a result might my view of the movies is [TS]

  very different i think from somebody who [TS]

  grew up with these stories and really [TS]

  knew the whole the whole story going in [TS]

  and then somebody else might have not [TS]

  read it all and have a like Andy and [TS]

  have a completely different perspective [TS]

  too so there's so many different ways [TS]

  you can come at at a work like this and [TS]

  in so you know John Dean you know you [TS]

  have that you have a pretty close [TS]

  relationship with it with the source [TS]

  material is that how does that an impact [TS]

  how you view these movies now let's [TS]

  think about that when I was watching [TS]

  them again the fact that although i've [TS]

  read Hobbit and Lord of the Rings [TS]

  multiple times every 3-4 times the last [TS]

  time i read them was probably right [TS]

  before the fellowship came out that i [TS]

  read through them like one last time [TS]

  before the movie came out right and so I [TS]

  haven't read the books and so long since [TS]

  since reading the books I've now seen [TS]

  the movies three or four times and a lot [TS]

  of like you know up the movies are [TS]

  starting to I start to think did that [TS]

  happen in the movie or did that happen [TS]

  in the book you know which parts did [TS]

  they change from the book or which part [TS]

  is that you know and I get them mixed up [TS]

  in my head because I'm old right but [TS]

  still when i watch the the movies [TS]

  it's a situation with the movies in the [TS]

  books [TS]

  despite me not remembering what what [TS]

  events changed where what was made up by [TS]

  you know the the writers of the movies [TS]

  not when I pictured in my head there to [TS]

  almost entirely different things I just [TS]

  I see nothing of the movies [TS]

  and thinking about the books and vice [TS]

  versa and but you know like in terms [TS]

  like what does the world look like what [TS]

  do you picture in your head when you're [TS]

  reading the book i did not picture [TS]

  anything from the movies [TS]

  despite the fact that you know that the [TS]

  movies are out there and the other thing [TS]

  is when watching the movies even now [TS]

  even super duper long extended editions [TS]

  and also the sister of the hobbit as [TS]

  well just saw the first movie of it may [TS]

  seem to me like this big long story and [TS]

  we're going to dip the camera into the [TS]

  story for like 30 seconds and then pull [TS]

  it out and then we're going to dip it in [TS]

  and we're gonna pull it out totally [TS]

  disjointed but as someone who's read the [TS]

  book so much like all right well that's [TS]

  fine because I know everything that [TS]

  comes between but they just they just [TS]

  seem that way it seems like it really [TS]

  seems like just dipping a movie camera [TS]

  into this gigantic river and you're like [TS]

  oh yeah I remember that part and then [TS]

  you're like okay about all you remember [TS]

  that part [TS]

  yeah our that wasn't really in the books [TS]

  i don't think but anyway I see what [TS]

  you're getting at and it just doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't feel like a cohesive whole [TS]

  but it doesn't make me just like the [TS]

  movies because i know all the parts that [TS]

  are in the middle as i know the stuff [TS]

  you don't mean and and it's like [TS]

  highlight yes I've always wanted must be [TS]

  inaccessible to people who haven't read [TS]

  the book I've worried what I've seen [TS]

  some of the time like this [TS]

  can't make any sense the sequence of [TS]

  things that just happened [TS]

  they just have to take it on faith or [TS]

  ignore all the gaps there because it [TS]

  doesn't make any sense [TS]

  I mean watching again it's really [TS]

  obvious your stuff that makes well [TS]

  there's a there's a logic to it if [TS]

  you've seen you know if you're familiar [TS]

  with the genre I feel like you're [TS]

  everything about fantasy is john r you [TS]

  can wave your hands over a lot of it and [TS]

  be like yeah you know magic or whatever [TS]

  you know there is a certain logic to it [TS]

  but i agree that it is as but you know [TS]

  someone coming over [TS]

  yeah you know it's amazing that these [TS]

  became a blockbuster mainstream hits [TS]

  given how this preposterous it seemed [TS]

  and talking it's like when someone shuts [TS]

  out like you know you know you are one [TS]

  of the race of nĂºmenor the other person [TS]

  says yes I am and it's like oh ok then [TS]

  let me know that's not even that is [TS]

  sometimes that's not explain that much [TS]

  in the book because they have appendices [TS]

  and some early and I was on a study but [TS]

  it's just it like it doesn't feel like [TS]

  they narrative leaf it together the way [TS]

  you would write scene scene scene like [TS]

  this see naturally is to the next thing [TS]

  that doesn't actually need to this is [TS]

  like 600 pages you just like you know [TS]

  there are you know the 50-page gap that [TS]

  you pulled out there and [TS]

  the way they have to be interleaved in [TS]

  the book versus the way they're done in [TS]

  the movies is very very different [TS]

  because of the meeting which is fine but [TS]

  it's just the movies net the movies [TS]

  always feel like here are some [TS]

  highlights from book that you liked [TS]

  yeah except i've only read the book once [TS]

  and my wife has never read the book and [TS]

  as a game of thrones basis i'm not going [TS]

  to read these books so we're just gonna [TS]

  watch it and she has watched it with me [TS]

  multiple times and enjoyed it [TS]

  uh oh yeah all those times and the only [TS]

  thing that bothered her was not the not [TS]

  the plot because I think I think [TS]

  honestly you there are some amazing [TS]

  shortcuts that the that the brain takes [TS]

  where you're like watching a movie and [TS]

  you say alright okay thats you know I [TS]

  apparently he is not going to get old [TS]

  very fast right music nor it's a thing [TS]

  whatever he's a ranger when you just [TS]

  like okay and and if you read the book [TS]

  you might be like oh well that has all [TS]

  this meeting but if you don't you just [TS]

  go get all right fine and you end it [TS]

  that hasn't bothered her in fact I would [TS]

  say as with Game of Thrones the thing [TS]

  that gets my wife when she's watching [TS]

  these movies is is things like it's [TS]

  differentiating characters like which [TS]

  which guy is that because as are our [TS]

  mutual friend philip Michaels often has [TS]

  said uh and and Lisa Schmeisser what we [TS]

  really got here is Alfie dwarfee beardy [TS]

  a cloak like cloak guy everybody when [TS]

  you had the too many pretty men with [TS]

  long hair yeah that aragorn Boromir [TS]

  Pharaoh you're 80 more you know i can [TS]

  say all start to look they've all got [TS]

  stubble and beard [TS]

  this is a problem with thousand-page [TS]

  books that it is just a minute you can't [TS]

  have that make their characters but even [TS]

  in the fellowship with all white guys [TS]

  yeah which is that guy [TS]

  which one is that because it was so [TS]

  there's the elf guy and the dwarf guy [TS]

  and then there's that there's a little [TS]

  hobbitses and then there's the two kind [TS]

  of or are madly guy with with a but [TS]

  there's the one with the beard the one [TS]

  who just sort of hasn't shaved very much [TS]

  right poorly shaved yea once again at [TS]

  once again to roll him that's when I [TS]

  think most casual people start to lose [TS]

  track this like all right I had to [TS]

  fellowship down they were all kinda [TS]

  together a day they were different [TS]

  heights but now just throw hand they're [TS]

  all just a bunch of scruffy horse yeah [TS]

  who's this horse guy [TS]

  well in the row has seen it seems like [TS]

  there's people are going to be important [TS]

  later who are [TS]

  not the introduce them and give them the [TS]

  screen time as if they will be nao and [TS]

  is kind of like hanging around you like [TS]

  why did you keep going back to here and [TS]

  just keep watching [TS]

  she's the only interesting female [TS]

  character in the story that's probably [TS]

  one of the reasons they keep going back [TS]

  to her and she's not that interesting [TS]

  the extended edition i think what you [TS]

  doin is much more interesting and I [TS]

  think that whole part of the plot is [TS]

  more interesting in the extended edition [TS]

  two more interesting but I I don't know [TS]

  if necessarily i would say interesting I [TS]

  or was funny i think she's one of the [TS]

  best centers of the two towers i think [TS]

  but the books are the movies in the [TS]

  movie but it's anybody's anybody really [TS]

  going to dip into the extended edition [TS]

  for that reason though I think the [TS]

  people the people who can you can [TS]

  instinctively understand the plot of [TS]

  people who are already really in [TS]

  familiar invested with it and they're [TS]

  kinda hungry to look at those chapters [TS]

  that weren't that didn't make it into [TS]

  part of the theatrical release that's [TS]

  right recipe recipe you got confused to [TS]

  begin with I'm not gonna dress ga nai [TS]

  again maybe maybe another half an hour [TS]

  to really clear this up for me if only [TS]

  this for longer it would be clear [TS]

  exactly what my problem was it was it [TS]

  was a lot like it was a lot like [TS]

  heaven's gate of you guys ever seen [TS]

  Heaven's Gate Michael Cimino movie like [TS]

  1978 legendary movie that judgment [TS]

  legendary disaster movie actually [TS]

  brought down Universal Media you in the [TS]

  united artists and but not to get the [TS]

  whole thing but the there's a [TS]

  two-and-a-half-hour version that doesn't [TS]

  make sense because it seems as though [TS]

  they're like scenes from three different [TS]

  movies going on side by side by side and [TS]

  you never know well what is the [TS]

  beginning middle and end of this what [TS]

  was the what character we supposed to be [TS]

  following and what goal is suppose being [TS]

  being made and then I I didn't get that [TS]

  I didn't really understand that so I [TS]

  sought out being by on get on video the [TS]

  three-and-a-half-hour directors cut [TS]

  originally permitted film festival and [TS]

  it's only a longer version of 45 [TS]

  different movies that are sort of cut [TS]

  together and that's AII didn't I I'll [TS]

  say again I didn't I did enjoy lord of [TS]

  the rings but I got in there thinking [TS]

  that ok this is a movie about a ring of [TS]

  consummate evil that has to be brought [TS]

  back to its source and destroyed or else [TS]

  it's going to call basically ruined [TS]

  everything but that by the time you're [TS]

  in like our two of this 9r movie it [TS]

  feels like know they're telling six [TS]

  different stories of what [TS]

  the story of this good when the movies [TS]

  not over when the ring gets destroyed [TS]

  it's also the story about the elves that [TS]

  may be sticking around but may not be [TS]

  sticking around and it's also the story [TS]

  of power wise itself guy got it in let [TS]

  the elf woman in love with the the [TS]

  romance novel covers sword guy and it [TS]

  just seems as though they just it's a [TS]

  it's a multi-purpose massively [TS]

  multiplayer multiplayer online game in [TS]

  which you can sort of like follow [TS]

  different friends as they both forgot [TS]

  know that I'm gonna play the game in [TS]

  which we try to drink the woman in the [TS]

  chainmail under the table [TS]

  I'm gonna do the one where I tried to [TS]

  level up and finally fight the dragon [TS]

  it's fun but it's like Oh kinda really [TS]

  wish there was a through-line one [TS]

  through lines the entire thing [TS]

  this stuff is in the book though in the [TS]

  end I i think that's one of the one of [TS]

  the the issues here I actually think [TS]

  that the extended editions add a lot of [TS]

  good material and that there's other [TS]

  stuff and in the theatrical additions [TS]

  that uh is not as interesting as some of [TS]

  the stuff that's added by the extended i [TS]

  would i would sort of recommend that [TS]

  anybody who's interested watch the [TS]

  extended edition but the but the [TS]

  faithful adaptation i wanted to mention [TS]

  John mentioned you know you're dipping [TS]

  into scenes from this really long book [TS]

  and even at ten hours you can't really [TS]

  adapter 12 hours or 80 hours or however [TS]

  long it is you can't really adapt a [TS]

  thousand-page book and sometimes i think [TS]

  that uh and and I know now that we know [TS]

  that that an even shorter book is being [TS]

  made into three movies by Peter Jackson [TS]

  it makes it even more difficult to to to [TS]

  think about this but not all the bottom [TS]

  there's a whole other series of [TS]

  thousands of podcast so much so my point [TS]

  is you know it's great that they wanted [TS]

  to honor this very important book that [TS]

  meant so much to them by doing a [TS]

  faithful adaptation but there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff in here that that I just look at [TS]

  and think why is this in this movie and [TS]

  I and I'm saying is somebody who likes [TS]

  these movies and watch them a lot i'm [TS]

  struck every time I but I watch them by [TS]

  the things that the things that appeal [TS]

  to me there are certain things that [TS]

  appeal to me and then there are other [TS]

  whole thing's was like why is this here [TS]

  and there's the whole you know yes the [TS]

  elves leaving is important for the plot [TS]

  and yet it's very strange and it's not [TS]

  explained very well and then should be a [TS]

  big Dan and the with a romance this [TS]

  weird abortive road [TS]

  dance between aon and Aragorn and then [TS]

  at the end they like together together [TS]

  with fair mirror so that there's a happy [TS]

  and like yeah ending and it's so poorly [TS]

  handled and when is it an interesting [TS]

  character and the the it you know to [TS]

  cleanse point that's true but you know [TS]

  there's so much of this planet in the [TS]

  hole left Tyler thing which you know [TS]

  that's a character that's kind of blown [TS]

  up in order to have more of women [TS]

  characters in the book which is [TS]

  admirable except that you know she isn't [TS]

  that interesting and if you're seeing [TS]

  these movies in the theater [TS]

  she is your cue to go to the bathroom [TS]

  haha she's great she's great in her [TS]

  first five minutes of her appearance and [TS]

  then after that that's it unfortunately [TS]

  she has to play a lot of woe is me [TS]

  yeah that's part of my the inexplicable [TS]

  part two is we were talking about the [TS]

  books when i mean i think i've read over [TS]

  the books when I was in a teenager and I [TS]

  may have read them for them at least 10 [TS]

  times maybe more [TS]

  wow they're great i think they're part [TS]

  of my you know they're part of my [TS]

  errands i'm i'm a language family so you [TS]

  and John are in the I've read these [TS]

  books over and over and over again camp [TS]

  yeah and I've read The Silmarillion I've [TS]

  read the you know some of the other [TS]

  books i'm in the middle of you guys [TS]

  apparently i read fellowship in fifth [TS]

  grade for the first time I think I I [TS]

  pretty quickly went through three of [TS]

  them didn't read reread them until right [TS]

  before like John right before the movies [TS]

  came out and as is you know my team I [TS]

  notoriously poor memory I can't remember [TS]

  them at all before the movies came out I [TS]

  i love the idea and i love the fact that [TS]

  this you know he does create this world [TS]

  that's that's fascinating it and iconic [TS]

  right you know because so much has [TS]

  borrowed from from Lord of the Rings [TS]

  that said find the books kind of [TS]

  ponderous what ya get through and that's [TS]

  for me like yeah I read is he at a young [TS]

  age but the same time it was more of a [TS]

  it was like reading a historical [TS]

  document and at times literally like [TS]

  reading a historical document or the [TS]

  silmarillion and like 730 that's like [TS]

  you're reading research at that point [TS]

  it's like it's really a history book of [TS]

  the things that never happened didn't [TS]

  know it's it's like talking to the only [TS]

  person who wrote his own fanfic that's [TS]

  what hahahaha talkin was a you know [TS]

  flawless jist as it is a professor is a [TS]

  professor in it we know these were [TS]

  written [TS]

  in CS Lewis had a bet and they were [TS]

  gonna both write science fiction novels [TS]

  and I think they're both the right [TS]

  fantasy as well and you know that is [TS]

  where out of that would LOL ron Hubbard [TS]

  that's I know what you think nothing [TS]

  part of the grand we all lost they were [TS]

  lonely man oh come on you getting aren't [TS]

  you get the seven Narnia books from that [TS]

  and you get the silent planet Cyril and [TS]

  Ray Allen very deeply flawed but very [TS]

  interesting books very different than [TS]

  most sense for me I i have fonder [TS]

  memories of narnia and maybe that's [TS]

  because I read the more softer it's [TS]

  easier to close your category this is so [TS]

  what does this say is that I you know [TS]

  one of the reasons i like the book says [TS]

  yes they're dense and parts i think the [TS]

  Fellowship of all three of the books is [TS]

  among the most approachable most [TS]

  interesting because it devolves into [TS]

  walking in battles and you know the [TS]

  giant spiders but the the language is [TS]

  what got me that's why the silmarillion [TS]

  was interesting to me the appendices as [TS]

  I was I never I don't think I was ever [TS]

  on track to become like a you know a [TS]

  full ology major whatever that major be [TS]

  linguistics or language but I language [TS]

  is wonderful i think we can all agree [TS]

  that Tolkien wrote the best the road the [TS]

  best dnd sourcebook haha [TS]

  everybody's best dependencies definitive [TS]

  well he brought the sourcebook for like [TS]

  all high fantasy of the 20th century but [TS]

  that's right i mean and it's always [TS]

  funny to me as someone who has played [TS]

  played a lot of dnd as a kid and more [TS]

  recently that I always look at the wait [TS]

  but there's a wizard he's got a staff [TS]

  and a sword Wizards have stories like [TS]

  this it's you know the the impact that [TS]

  he's had spread so far and led to these [TS]

  other worlds and crew you know these [TS]

  rules of fantasy right that it's funny [TS]

  then go back to the original you know [TS]

  the source of so much of this and [TS]

  realize yeah he wasn't strict about some [TS]

  of these things as all the people later [TS]

  who really wanted to construct rules and [TS]

  logic for all these fantasy magic [TS]

  systems and all that you know he played [TS]

  a little more loosey-goosey and it was [TS]

  you did you say it was he was on [TS]

  fanfiction who get that was and I think [TS]

  that's never thought about it that way [TS]

  before but it was true he developed the [TS]

  languages and they needed to have a [TS]

  culture that with them so he wrote book [TS]

  yeah you know that that's I think you're [TS]

  you got it exactly right and you can [TS]

  also try to retail in he wanted to give [TS]

  England a mythic past yes that of its [TS]

  own didn't have its own and this is [TS]

  essentially a you know it is [TS]

  England is middle-earth Manicaland and [TS]

  it's sort of somewhere between like that [TS]

  you know the the Danes and the vikings [TS]

  and waves of invasion whatever it and [TS]

  it's an allegory for the I mean it's [TS]

  also an allegory for the world wars you [TS]

  know how the same time I know he is [TS]

  where he claimed that they were and they [TS]

  so clearly are but he wrote a lot of war [TS]

  of the rings before World War two [TS]

  what's the right but he fought in world [TS]

  war one yeah you know that clearly [TS]

  impacts how he feels about this i mean [TS]

  i'd lost today in particular watching [TS]

  return the king at the very you know as [TS]

  you get towards the end photo since [TS]

  they're going like how do you pick up [TS]

  your old life like that to me is like [TS]

  that's a veteran coming back from war [TS]

  right you know [TS]

  and clearly i read a little bit of his [TS]

  bio well I was sitting there watching [TS]

  the movie and about you know he was [TS]

  convalescent you know injured and all [TS]

  that in hospitals in school you know I [TS]

  think it's impossible for him to have [TS]

  written that without that experience in [TS]

  forming it and then you look at the [TS]

  world war two parallels and even if it's [TS]

  not directly intended you know to be so [TS]

  it it comes across very strongly [TS]

  yeah it's it's a it's very clear right [TS]

  down to America saving the day is [TS]

  America get off [TS]

  no it's the Eagles do become a bald [TS]

  eagle swooping how could you read any [TS]

  more blatant the net if they wait to the [TS]

  last minute and then swooped in your [TS]

  right price wells in the heart of the [TS]

  American bear it's franklin roosevelt is [TS]

  riding on an eagle and he just swoops in [TS]

  kills i think i saw the stephen colbert [TS]

  a little too late because the story is [TS]

  really already already extended extended [TS]

  edition it is amusing that stephen [TS]

  colbert's and massive crazy Lord of the [TS]

  Rings fair yeah when viggo mortensen was [TS]

  on The Daily Show and before the colbert [TS]

  report it started and he brought [TS]

  apparently some incredible gift to [TS]

  Stephen Colbert and they cut to like an [TS]

  incentive Colbert reciting the entire [TS]

  history like the reading the appendices [TS]

  from memory [TS]

  he does tom bombadil when I interviews [TS]

  neil gaiman on the colbert report noted [TS]

  just on top of his head he's talking [TS]

  interview and he just does like the [TS]

  whole tom bombadil song its he is really [TS]

  is quite the fan [TS]

  what do you see so you saw the week when [TS]

  he had like almost the entire cast and [TS]

  jackson on the entire week know and [TS]

  that's what you get go you should know [TS]

  you have to see this because yet because [TS]

  again these are people who've been [TS]

  living in this universe like Pierre [TS]

  Jackson living in this universe for what [TS]

  ten years more than 10 years and yet [TS]

  like Peter tracks will say and then yeah [TS]

  there was the two and then well the [TS]

  thing is we had we had a problem finding [TS]

  the sword that I don't remember was that [TS]

  and then he then and then Colbert will [TS]

  talk about that will not only correct [TS]

  about the movie but also boasts talk for [TS]

  two minutes but oh you're talking about [TS]

  blog which was the sword was forged by [TS]

  the heart of his new realtor for Danny [TS]

  spoken exactly he's going like deep [TS]

  catalog and you can tell he's not just [TS]

  trying to do a bit [TS]

  it's like just like any really really [TS]

  wonderful in like nerd it's like he [TS]

  cannot stop but shares of excitement [TS]

  with the guy who directed this movie [TS]

  well Jackson is probably also you know [TS]

  he's he's got internalised to tone it [TS]

  down because he wants to reach a broader [TS]

  audience and he's simplifying everything [TS]

  and he's an old friend of mine and then [TS]

  Stephen Colbert is basically like no no [TS]

  don't simplify let's get into this is [TS]

  the thing that impressed me about that [TS]

  interview one of the interviews I saw [TS]

  those interviews and one of them they [TS]

  mentioned that when Stephen Colbert went [TS]

  down to New Zealand they were filming [TS]

  The Hobbit they had a token trivia [TS]

  contest with the quick their crew with [TS]

  the crew that was the movie and stephen [TS]

  colbert 10 and i don't think the people [TS]

  there were pulling their punches so [TS]

  that's not just that but i think i think [TS]

  one was actually one of the researchers [TS]

  that they have like that on set [TS]

  yeah it was like all biggest marriage in [TS]

  the movie the people speak fluent elvish [TS]

  are there i mean that's right there the [TS]

  elvish consultants who speak it in their [TS]

  spare time who finally found a purpose [TS]

  in life to be consultants on this movie [TS]

  and people to beat them fancy and I [TS]

  don't think they'd let him win because [TS]

  he's a celebrity those like the nerds [TS]

  who were there you know go to guys for [TS]

  book facts on the movie they wanted to [TS]

  beat him and they didn't so that gave [TS]

  him the most crabs little john's just [TS]

  like if they ask you to star wars trivia [TS]

  contest i'm not going to start you're [TS]

  the star wars trivia ringer ok then I'll [TS]

  do it [TS]

  top him tapping for John yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  we'll do a little tag team will be it [TS]

  was saying before that like the the [TS]

  extended editions like you know well you [TS]

  know if you're really into the books [TS]

  maybe like I'm adding that junk you [TS]

  don't need otherwise I found you really [TS]

  like the books and I found when I see [TS]

  the extended ones with the extra stuff [TS]

  in it i would expect the extra stop to [TS]

  say all I call these gaps in this big [TS]

  Swiss cheese and a movie that I'm seeing [TS]

  when they add the stuff and really still [TS]

  fill in some of those Swiss cheese holes [TS]

  and in some way somehow it just makes [TS]

  more holes like by adding more material [TS]

  I'm like it now [TS]

  it's breaking it up even more because [TS]

  there's a whole section is that you [TS]

  didn't want to even think about this it [TS]

  actually we're going to have one two and [TS]

  a half minutes seen about that you're [TS]

  like wait a second now you just opened [TS]

  an entire door here because all other [TS]

  thing that you're talking about it [TS]

  there's the extended scene in the [TS]

  tradition of the bit where aragorn is in [TS]

  the stables and one of the horses like [TS]

  all his rider has been lost he can't be [TS]

  tamed and he goes over and starts [TS]

  talking horse in elvish break or [TS]

  whatever his name is it calms down and [TS]

  then a woman has a scene with him and [TS]

  she realizes he is and I was like that [TS]

  was a great scene but you're right it's [TS]

  like wait a minute they can talk to [TS]

  horses [TS]

  there's a wide please sing the song [TS]

  about Baron everything and anything you [TS]

  know you don't know via lock two horses [TS]

  all the time they just don't talk back [TS]

  that's right also the guy who plays the [TS]

  horses great two guys one of the front [TS]

  one in the back [TS]

  spoilers they're both in the back I [TS]

  understand was a dog in motion capture [TS]

  suit if you want a relook at work you [TS]

  gotta get anybody get this one they're [TS]

  all andy serkis that's Michael you know [TS]

  this dog is like the Andy Serkis of dogs [TS]

  that hasn't been done yet it needs to be [TS]

  done [TS]

  that's great that doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  feel a little bit little like you get [TS]

  these drug addicts that they can [TS]

  initially like get high off of the only [TS]

  get a couple beers to get a buzz and oh [TS]

  my god they're out of control and then [TS]

  the more they drink the more they need [TS]

  more alcohol the more drugs need to [TS]

  consume to get that kind of high they're [TS]

  looking for you talking about I [TS]

  filmmakers no I'm talking about like [TS]

  I've been talking about fans they're [TS]

  like your fans okay you're talking [TS]

  earlier about how there are delicate we [TS]

  wanted to run double stupor no go ahead [TS]

  it it's mostly piping yeah but how you [TS]

  want how you as a fan you want to see [TS]

  them go deep catalog like that because [TS]

  that's the stuff you want to see and I [TS]

  think it in all kinds of different kinds [TS]

  of nerdom like a hitchhiker's guide [TS]

  movie I didn't want to see a linear to [TS]

  our version of like the first book I [TS]

  wanted to see them put as many details [TS]

  as possible from where i could think i [TS]

  could recognize as oh ok the little-seen [TS]

  that actually came from the radio series [TS]

  of it was series a later series because [TS]

  there because there's a there's a there [TS]

  are these two clones there a clone an [TS]

  anticyclone the way the complicated [TS]

  woman is called a little school the [TS]

  other one called was called win atilla [TS]

  and nobody knows nobody cares but this [TS]

  is the level at [TS]

  which I want to be entertained by a [TS]

  hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy movie [TS]

  and this is the equivalent of I just [TS]

  need to go to the liquor store get [TS]

  whatever is really really cheap and [TS]

  high-end content and drink five gallons [TS]

  of it before I can face by day that's [TS]

  how deeply I've got into this rabbit [TS]

  hole of fandom on this thing you know I [TS]

  I don't I I just don't feel like the [TS]

  added material and granted I've only [TS]

  seen the originals the one time in the [TS]

  theater so I haven't done a an in-depth [TS]

  look but they're marked the scenes that [TS]

  are added extended are marked in the DVD [TS]

  liner notes and you know to me it felt [TS]

  like they had a lot of interesting quiet [TS]

  character scenes and scenes about things [TS]

  that that were not either they they cut [TS]

  out because they needed to have the plot [TS]

  have its arc for the version that all [TS]

  along was short enough to be shown it in [TS]

  a movie theater it's the types of many [TS]

  more icebergs and I'm that's night right [TS]

  but but it adds a richness to me and as [TS]

  somebody who hasn't you read the book [TS]

  once and does not consider myself a Lord [TS]

  of the Rings fan by any stretch of the [TS]

  imagination to me i prefer those [TS]

  additions because i like dipping into [TS]

  the those things i like those quiet [TS]

  moments and and that richness that adds [TS]

  to it in a way that a in my mind makes [TS]

  them better movies it also turns it from [TS]

  being a series of really long movies [TS]

  into like I said into almost like a [TS]

  miniseries and it may just be that it [TS]

  plays better for me and it works for me [TS]

  in that scenario but some of the stuff [TS]

  that they added you know in in an even [TS]

  fellowship of the ring [TS]

  there's some quiet there's some hot [TS]

  extra hot stuff and then there's some [TS]

  some choir moments later on when they [TS]

  when they get to to Rivendell and it you [TS]

  know it's i'm not i'm not sitting there [TS]

  going oh [TS]

  finally I get the name of that that [TS]

  thing in elvish it's it's not that it's [TS]

  more like i like i like seeing a little [TS]

  bit more of this world as part of my [TS]

  eleventh hour journey you know the thing [TS]

  that got me though is for all that with [TS]

  the extended edition in the main film [TS]

  there are some significant emissions to [TS]

  the scouring of the shower is where the [TS]

  most powerful parts of lord of the rings [TS]

  because it brings everything home it [TS]

  brings it to earth [TS]

  it's the end of the tail i know there [TS]

  are so many endings the movies it's true [TS]

  in the book as well I demand one more [TS]

  and that's the death of Saruman is [TS]

  have cast away in the books in the movie [TS]

  star marks or dies it's the Saruman [TS]

  scene is even not i think played nearly [TS]

  as well that's a very cinematic scene in [TS]

  the book and that played as well the [TS]

  scouring the shower is very cinematic I [TS]

  think critical in many ways to the [TS]

  conclusion of the book and what happens [TS]

  then taking back their own lives [TS]

  changing identity and it submitted [TS]

  yeah it's just you know you're like they [TS]

  go home and sit in the bar like this [TS]

  romantic like all come all talk and tom [TS]

  bombadil who by the way is it i think is [TS]

  one of the worst things in the book and [TS]

  so I was happy that they took that part [TS]

  out but I love Tom Bombadil you will see [TS]

  a bunch of you who said so far that you [TS]

  don't like long things you didn't like [TS]

  the long book and he thought it was like [TS]

  slogging through mud the movies that you [TS]

  alone I like the long book I read all [TS]

  thousand pages roger ebert said the most [TS]

  perfect thing possible that no-good [TS]

  movie is long enough no bad movie [TS]

  shorten the length is we could do with [TS]

  it but you said his head be it like the [TS]

  reading the books was like a slogging [TS]

  through mud knows it [TS]

  I i guess i get along it's because [TS]

  they're slow I know but I'm not [TS]

  successfully since it's the disc the [TS]

  density i know i can relate to that i [TS]

  can tell you that in the books I see it [TS]

  and I mean I despite the fact that I [TS]

  don't read very quickly lot most of my [TS]

  favorite books are more than a thousand [TS]

  pages and there's something about just [TS]

  the length in and of itself like the [TS]

  fact that it's slow pace that it's [TS]

  boring that it's like a lot like that [TS]

  the experience of reading Lord of the [TS]

  Rings has that feeling to me of like I [TS]

  want it to be just long and leisurely in [TS]

  casual and why is that not boring what's [TS]

  the line between long and lean casual [TS]

  and detailed and and mind-numbingly [TS]

  boring i don't know i don't know why [TS]

  what causes it to cross the line but [TS]

  that's how Lord of the Rings feels to me [TS]

  as I want it to be just a very long [TS]

  thing with lots of details that takes [TS]

  its time with you want to be rich and [TS]

  interesting well even though I said that [TS]

  like they were there adding it you know [TS]

  that the scenes in movies didn't make it [TS]

  Marco here and just made more holes if [TS]

  given the choice of which 1i wanna watch [TS]

  I wanna watch the extended because of [TS]

  the very least what they do is add a [TS]

  little tiny tiny bit of that feeling [TS]

  from the books then some Down long very [TS]

  long sort of you know it's taking its [TS]

  time getting where it's going it's not [TS]

  in a rush is not trying to be a [TS]

  three-act play it's like 9,000 discs [TS]

  yes you know haha [TS]

  that's like face like photoshop slip is [TS]

  feasting on five hatch and swap is what [TS]

  was installing Lord of the Rings ninety [TS]

  percent on it doesn't make for a better [TS]

  movie but it does give me a little taste [TS]

  of that feeling that I liked from the [TS]

  book and that's how I judge these movies [TS]

  are apart from government moviemaking [TS]

  which is there are many things to [TS]

  complain about their I say ok there's [TS]

  something in the book that I like in you [TS]

  know and helms deep something I like [TS]

  about Hobbiton something I like about [TS]

  gum you know that sticks out in my mind [TS]

  did they get extract like ring out any [TS]

  of that thing and put it in this movie [TS]

  even if it's unlike an accurate way and [TS]

  you know the surrounding stuff is dumb [TS]

  you know whatever it is that you're [TS]

  thinking of did they get any of that in [TS]

  here so like the Helms Deep battles a [TS]

  good example I get a little bit of the [TS]

  same feeling from reading the homestead [TS]

  battle as i did in the homestead battle [TS]

  in the movie so good job there right and [TS]

  so that's what I that's how i have two [TS]

  judges look at every one of these scenes [TS]

  i really hate that Tolkien left out the [TS]

  part where legolas slides on the shield [TS]

  that was not gonna hear that feeling is [TS]

  not a feeling that I get no but notice [TS]

  that's a that's of the steps of mistake [TS]

  always awesome i'll stand I will defend [TS]

  it to the dead very says like a [TS]

  hoverboard in middle earth that is why [TS]

  it is awesome [TS]

  I want to get back on something John [TS]

  said there which is about pacing because [TS]

  I this is this is something that I've [TS]

  been thinking too which is what you want [TS]

  it you know you don't if you're running [TS]

  a marathon you don't start sprinting [TS]

  right you don't because it's a long it's [TS]

  a different kind of race and a thousand [TS]

  page novel in small print is a lot of [TS]

  words and it's not a short story and [TS]

  it's not a short novel and when I talk [TS]

  about watching the extended editions and [TS]

  watching them over six nights that's the [TS]

  mindset that I min is I'm happy for it [TS]

  to be as leisurely as it wants to be and [TS]

  for me Ted for them to add the scenes in [TS]

  that add to the richness but don't [TS]

  necessarily resolve the you know the [TS]

  plot holes or anything like that they [TS]

  just add to the written richness of this [TS]

  world that I'm immersing myself in for [TS]

  the better part of a week and that you [TS]

  know to me that is the difference here [TS]

  is that is that I'm not expecting this [TS]

  it's that many serious thing i'm not [TS]

  expecting this to be a movie and holding [TS]

  it to the the judgment of a three-hour [TS]

  movie because it's not it's this [TS]

  sprawling 11-hour thing we're in [TS]

  look for him you know it's a gigantic [TS]

  tone and anything I ding the movie for [TS]

  when it's not long enough like in the [TS]

  book the feeling when they're going [TS]

  through more doors just like this [TS]

  totally blasted landscape and they have [TS]

  no water and just miserable and the [TS]

  movie I'm like the way that was like [TS]

  three scenes they're already through [TS]

  that shouldn't be much longer that's it [TS]

  should be just an incredible slog of [TS]

  just torture is starving to death [TS]

  I'm not knowing how they're gonna and I [TS]

  did it like only what was that ok was 45 [TS]

  minutes but still it's not you want you [TS]

  want all of order to basically be the [TS]

  entirety of lawrence of arabia inserted [TS]

  within return again at least like with [TS]

  that is again I get judging section is [TS]

  about how do I feel when I'm reading [TS]

  about Sam and Frodo going through more I [TS]

  feel like it's miserable i feel like [TS]

  it's hopeless and like did they captured [TS]

  in the movie [TS]

  not really because they were too busy [TS]

  with the Golem stuff which is fun and [TS]

  everything but like it they had other [TS]

  things they kept jumping back and forth [TS]

  to what's going on it you know he's in [TS]

  the book they do also not jump back and [TS]

  forth as much they have like here's a [TS]

  solid thing of salmon from over here is [TS]

  a solid thing what's going on with with [TS]

  every day with the airborne endeavor but [TS]

  they can't you can't do that movie right [TS]

  now and then but but that's what I'm [TS]

  saying like it was in certain aspects i [TS]

  feel like they did didn't it the movie [TS]

  wasn't long enough and and this is the [TS]

  only way i can judge this movie because [TS]

  like I watch them and I enjoy them at [TS]

  all looking for here is did you [TS]

  reproduce that think good feeling that i [TS]

  liked about the movie in some form [TS]

  because cocaine it doesn't hold together [TS]

  coherently and the moviemaking is very [TS]

  hand fisted and there are many things [TS]

  not to like about it but I like the [TS]

  world so much the reason i like watching [TS]

  movies like yeah they do occasionally [TS]

  hit those little notes like oh yeah I [TS]

  like that [TS]

  Oh yep I like that I like that from the [TS]

  book i like that but if I had never read [TS]

  the books and just watch these movies i [TS]

  would be like all my god I'm never [TS]

  watching us music here's a radical [TS]

  proposal [TS]

  like what if they were able to buy a [TS]

  libretto form of this movie just like an [TS]

  opera like it's a it's like the operas [TS]

  are often like their hours and hours [TS]

  longer a different language their [TS]

  stories from a different time and a [TS]

  different country and so it's not [TS]

  considered cheating that there is a [TS]

  printed libretto that will say here is [TS]

  the story that you're about to see and [TS]

  in the form of like six pages you can [TS]

  definitely follow so that you kind of [TS]

  know how you certainly know how it's [TS]

  gonna end you know what the major story [TS]

  beats are and I can sort of just sit [TS]

  back and relax and enjoy the scenery the [TS]

  costumes and the performances [TS]

  what if they were a version of that like [TS]

  for the lord of the rings movie where [TS]

  the same land in 10 never talk about [TS]

  anything i'm just talking about what if [TS]

  you were to summarize it in here so [TS]

  they're 12 years a 12-page version of [TS]

  this movie that will just show this walk [TS]

  you through beat for beat for beat not [TS]

  even like subhead here the characters [TS]

  but the studio to retell the story in [TS]

  the form of 12 pages i think it's called [TS]

  the the wikipedia entry no no i don't i [TS]

  don't want to go by the wicked ride out [TS]

  of this that I think the key is this [TS]

  cannot be written by anybody who has [TS]

  read the book more than once and I don't [TS]

  want people say we put it away i didn't [TS]

  want to tell me what happens in inhales [TS]

  deep okay first of all it's a it's I if [TS]

  if you have that sort of orientation [TS]

  around you even reading the books that [TS]

  would it would allow you to sort of let [TS]

  go of this idea of I I I can't keep [TS]

  track of all these names i keep can I [TS]

  can't keep track of all these locations [TS]

  you can just sort of enjoy the story as [TS]

  it's being on unfolded and one of the [TS]

  problems with is that at least like in [TS]

  the star trek universe with someone like [TS]

  cock like okay he's a Klingon I don't [TS]

  know what he's after but I know that [TS]

  he's a Klingon where is ok to do is a [TS]

  Boromir floor mirror just dominoed ears [TS]

  like okay those are four different [TS]

  species but they're all essentially [TS]

  daughters and sons of the same traveling [TS]

  salesman for from two generations ago [TS]

  because they have the same root of the [TS]

  last name and this goes back to all the [TS]

  things my wife is confused about right [TS]

  there is but there's Rohan and there's [TS]

  gone door and they're all humans but the [TS]

  some of them ride horses and some of [TS]

  them don't ride horses i found myself [TS]

  explaining this stuff to my son is [TS]

  watching it pause the movie frequently [TS]

  to explain but it's like I feel like you [TS]

  can't you can't always say like ok [TS]

  they're in Gondor III what i would do is [TS]

  i would go to the map that hopefully [TS]

  comes with the expenditure I just want [TS]

  to watch a movie and say look here's [TS]

  here's gone door here's more so like [TS]

  that's why they're worried about as [TS]

  they're always there right by Gondor [TS]

  Rohan's up there but then when they got [TS]

  attacked they didn't come and say it [TS]

  like I have to explain the geopolitics [TS]

  otherwise like I didn't think an [TS]

  eight-year-old could understand why are [TS]

  these humans mad at each other like you [TS]

  see it's because of where they live and [TS]

  because of alien that he's the steward [TS]

  he's not the king but the king is gone [TS]

  and who is the guy was related to the [TS]

  King you know that tiny throne tiny [TS]

  throne when Mordor assassinated arch [TS]

  like Franz Ferdinand yes be seriously [TS]

  does happen otherwise like I mean you [TS]

  can have a war movie I guess without [TS]

  knowing what war one happen but this is [TS]

  like the whole point of this is like [TS]

  it's like geopolitics and how can you [TS]

  how can you understand what's at stake [TS]

  in these battles and why these people [TS]

  are mad at each other and they do put [TS]

  that in their performances of like who's [TS]

  mad at who for what reason because of [TS]

  who's dead relatives and so on [TS]

  even all the way back to solder which [TS]

  they were nice enough to put in the end [TS]

  the beginning of the movies like you [TS]

  know I'd argue this one advantage of the [TS]

  movie over the book is it opens with an [TS]

  actual explanation of the scope of [TS]

  what's going on and why everyone's so [TS]

  freaked out because the books you're [TS]

  like things are great in the Shire but [TS]

  yeah it takes a long time to get to a [TS]

  point while you're what anyone is [TS]

  worried about anything in that you know [TS]

  tool suspense is why the fellowship you [TS]

  know you got the deed all these [TS]

  intervals and greater and greater evil [TS]

  you meet the evil trees in the tone the [TS]

  river you meet the evil better right [TS]

  spots from the perspective of the [TS]

  hobbits are the ringwraiths and then you [TS]

  build like okay there's actually [TS]

  somebody even more evil than all of that [TS]

  and that's what this all come about in [TS]

  the movie i think it's actually find [TS]

  that they set the scene by saying [TS]

  alright there's this dude he's super [TS]

  evil we got rid of him sorta and then [TS]

  things got messed up so go and can we [TS]

  get some agreement that the best part of [TS]

  all three of these movies is the opening [TS]

  of fellowship where they do the [TS]

  backstory is not the best what the best [TS]

  part of all if you had to pick what is [TS]

  the best part of all three of these [TS]

  movies i would say it's the opening the [TS]

  opening sequence for the shows are on [TS]

  mostly because there's no dialogue [TS]

  it's also where you know they cut to it [TS]

  later because they have they have l ron [TS]

  is recalling i was there three thousand [TS]

  years ago you know they cut back to that [TS]

  Senior like this would actually also be [TS]

  a good movie when I'm not because i [TS]

  would start talking and have music cue [TS]

  musical cues and three good movies glad [TS]

  well I want to defend I want defend as a [TS]

  whole i really like fellowship of the [TS]

  ring is my favorite of the three [TS]

  I think largely because the scope is [TS]

  smaller it feels more personal feels [TS]

  more intimate as a movie it has some of [TS]

  my favorite John was driving the the [TS]

  filmmaking as ham-fisted I think [TS]

  Fellowship has the best of any of it [TS]

  because it's not Peter Jackson going [TS]

  over the top there are little shots i [TS]

  want my favorite shot the entire trilogy [TS]

  is the when they are the first time they [TS]

  leave the Shire and the end up [TS]

  on the road and Jackson uses the old [TS]

  Alfred Hitchcock's vertigo you know [TS]

  pan-arab zoom in trade dolly back shot [TS]

  on the road and get that need effect i [TS]

  love it but i would call him and fisted [TS]

  you got it got it other than know that [TS]

  it's beautiful that's great it's a great [TS]

  moment it's a great shot [TS]

  I think fellowship is my least favorite [TS]

  except for that one opening what the [TS]

  rest of it because I you know everything [TS]

  else starts to blur together after a [TS]

  while Holmes deep looks a lot like the [TS]

  battling Gondor you know it's really [TS]

  like other counting how many guys they [TS]

  killed and he's got a bit of his helmet [TS]

  on students good filmmaking is focused [TS]

  they build up to that battle even if you [TS]

  forgotten why they're even battling you [TS]

  understand that there if they have [TS]

  decided that their best option is to [TS]

  retreat to somewhere where there's no [TS]

  escape and that the bad people are [TS]

  coming and you you know it's a good bill [TS]

  up [TS]

  it's a completely different movie though [TS]

  because i think i think two towers and [TS]

  and return the King are very clearly war [TS]

  movies [TS]

  whereas the fellowship of the ring feels [TS]

  like an adventure but i'm with you and [TS]

  that once they get to return of the king [TS]

  the stakes for Gondor it's like they [TS]

  really care what's happening in Gondor [TS]

  as much more shows deep it felt more [TS]

  personal like oh I know those guys who [TS]

  are holed up there and they've got [TS]

  problems and it looks like everything's [TS]

  against them in here comes Gandalf and [TS]

  yeah you know like I had the correct [TS]

  feeling by return of the king was like [TS]

  it's too much cgi for me i really like [TS]

  the earlier movies where the battles [TS]

  feel like you've got the fellowship [TS]

  right and it really feels like there's [TS]

  these nine guys right and they're trying [TS]

  to get over you know basically to Mordor [TS]

  but dr. village Peter Jackson's [TS]

  filmmaking skills i know that filmed all [TS]

  at once but the filmmaking skills and [TS]

  fellowship it seems like he was just [TS]

  still finding his legs and it feels [TS]

  almost like it was made by like the [TS]

  b-team I don't agree because i feel like [TS]

  it you know if you look at his earlier [TS]

  work it's very it's very much similar in [TS]

  the same way that if you look at like [TS]

  Sam Raimi directing spider-man it really [TS]

  he's got a lot of stuff that technically [TS]

  you know resemble stuff he did in [TS]

  earlier movies you know there's there's [TS]

  something distinctive about the way that [TS]

  Peter Jackson did it and it's odd i was [TS]

  just listening the other day because we [TS]

  talked about this a little bit and one [TS]

  of our previous podcast you know that he [TS]

  has such an eclectic history coming you [TS]

  know film background before he gets into [TS]

  Lord of the Rings but it seems to me [TS]

  that some of his yeah he did some sloppy [TS]

  stuff earlier on but it [TS]

  I think part of that still continues [TS]

  with a meat but you could argue the same [TS]

  thing about Lucas and star wars with all [TS]

  the you know the wipes and stuff that [TS]

  was very much nineteen-thirties yeah [TS]

  that's kinda ham-fisted two depending on [TS]

  how you look at it i think you know that [TS]

  was an oh my gosh that's what does like [TS]

  quentin tarantino doing grindhouse yeah [TS]

  but i think i think this would be I [TS]

  think it without a lot of the stuff that [TS]

  makes it Peter Jackson and some of it I [TS]

  find a little bit silly but i think [TS]

  without all of it would have been very [TS]

  sterile and that i think would have [TS]

  bothered me more than something that's [TS]

  occasionally a bit kitschy some people [TS]

  do say it is it feels a little generic I [TS]

  don't totally agree with that but I see [TS]

  where they're coming from like they you [TS]

  know generic warrior guide generic [TS]

  health guy like I don't think it is [TS]

  generic I think they aren't designed [TS]

  right but that's not Jackson as much as [TS]

  this the source material again being [TS]

  kind of archetypal I know like I had [TS]

  that's that I think that's basically [TS]

  what they're seeing and they don't [TS]

  realize like this is the original [TS]

  reminds me of the famous penny arcade [TS]

  comic that no one on this podcast will [TS]

  know what I'm everything so I don't [TS]

  represent but someone in the audience [TS]

  will wear gave talks about what was it [TS]

  warhammer and world of warcraft anyway [TS]

  we'll put in the show notes [TS]

  oh yeah that's a good one I have no idea [TS]

  what Germans had two things I want to [TS]

  measure one is it if we talk about [TS]

  confusion and and stopping to explain [TS]

  what's going on it's not like I don't do [TS]

  that for Game of Thrones to first off [TS]

  I'm happy and I'm gonna pin this one on [TS]

  one talking having your most obvious [TS]

  present bad guy be named sorry man [TS]

  and then having your other bigger bad [TS]

  guy named Sauron is really confusing [TS]

  because it's like which one is he are [TS]

  they the same are they different it's [TS]

  like they're practically the same name [TS]

  so that is a that that's also super [TS]

  super confusing and in terms of movies i [TS]

  actually think i prefer the two towers [TS]

  because i really like that at the Helms [TS]

  Deep scenes and I really enjoy the [TS]

  scenes with with the Gimli and legolas [TS]

  i'm going to get all the names out and [TS]

  aragorn when they're kinda on the road [TS]

  chasing the orcs but that also leads to [TS]

  one of the big problems structurally [TS]

  with the with the series of movies which [TS]

  is the Fellowship's not around very much [TS]

  there around four part of the end of the [TS]

  first movie and then there's the the [TS]

  breaking of the fellowship [TS]

  and then in the second movie sam and [TS]

  frodo go in this bizarre holding pattern [TS]

  where they go over to they go through [TS]

  the swamps to the Blackgate I have to [TS]

  just circle of the airport yet they are [TS]

  they're literally in the holding pattern [TS]

  right into Mordor holding pattern for an [TS]

  awesome fuel before the crash [TS]

  it's just so they get so they can close [TS]

  out the movie and say hey look remember [TS]

  us we're gonna still go on to that place [TS]

  hi guys [TS]

  they could they could not be they could [TS]

  literally not be in the second movie and [TS]

  it wouldn't have any impact their [TS]

  they're barely anyway I think there's [TS]

  some good there's some good character [TS]

  stuff that goes on but i agree there are [TS]

  not wise not much happens with that [TS]

  exact date but that's kind of John's [TS]

  point like they're just walking that's [TS]

  what they're doing admit that was it [TS]

  that was the mechanics of having three [TS]

  movies right but it makes you feel like [TS]

  you're getting jerked around because [TS]

  they're not only are they walking there [TS]

  like walking and then walking back right [TS]

  by the end we're back at the river and [TS]

  that's what are we doing here you like [TS]

  it it's like like one of those are [TS]

  family circus cartoons where Billy's [TS]

  like that around the neighborhood with [TS]

  the dotted line stopped and had a [TS]

  sandwich more elegant bread up to its [TS]

  credit though the movies the movies [TS]

  scenes about Frodo and Sam walking [TS]

  around are pretty much just as boring as [TS]

  the book their big splash having read [TS]

  the book so many times I have to skip [TS]

  over most of book five of six like I [TS]

  just going alright I don't none of this [TS]

  adds anything to me when you say that [TS]

  you watched a movie and you read a book [TS]

  it usually means you watch the whole [TS]

  movie and read the whole this whole idea [TS]

  that you say i watch the movie but I [TS]

  fast forward to our spot that's not [TS]

  actually watching moving freely [TS]

  technically all you wanted someone [TS]

  associated a certain number times now [TS]

  you're being silly if you if I've read [TS]

  the books ten times now I'm not saying [TS]

  there's anything shameful about skipping [TS]

  and I'm just saying you don't say that [TS]

  you watch the movie again if you fast [TS]

  far and you can't skip parts i mean yes [TS]

  you can because you can you can presume [TS]

  you know you know what's gonna happen [TS]

  it's tedious I don't need a bunch of [TS]

  reading again unless it serves the part [TS]

  that this is this is going to be sort of [TS]

  one of those fundamentals arguments so i [TS]

  think we have people that know i think [TS]

  it is it's just some it's just semantics [TS]

  it's like all arguments i think you [TS]

  could argue that if you've read the book [TS]

  ten times and then you and then you [TS]

  leave through it and eleventh you [TS]

  haven't read it in 11th time you've [TS]

  lived through it [TS]

  parts of it the wall [TS]

  working parts of the walking walking [TS]

  parts are boring [TS]

  parts are boring [TS]

  print as well as in the movie is the pie [TS]

  looked at I've looked at the map on the [TS]

  endpapers a lot there so I said that I [TS]

  like i said that i like the the the two [TS]

  towers but one of the reasons i like the [TS]

  two towers is because of almost it's [TS]

  like despite sam and frodo because it's [TS]

  a manfrotto and got one column whose [TS]

  interesting but they're like there's a [TS]

  whole half-hour half the movie is a [TS]

  misunderstanding where they say take us [TS]

  into the black gate he goes oh I didn't [TS]

  know you meant take me to mourn all [TS]

  right that's a totally different way and [TS]

  then they well sucks for you hobbits [TS]

  come with me and and then they get how [TS]

  might you know that and that's a problem [TS]

  and it's a problem of the source [TS]

  material its problem how you want to [TS]

  make three movies and you have to give [TS]

  it give it a plot but it's also just a [TS]

  problem that this this is a series of [TS]

  different stories and the most [TS]

  interesting stories at least peter [TS]

  jackson and and his judgment to a modern [TS]

  audience are these battles and armies [TS]

  and horses and things like that and the [TS]

  idea is it supposed to be juxtaposed [TS]

  with this quieter story about Frodo [TS]

  struggle with the ring and say I'm [TS]

  trying to support him and gollum trying [TS]

  to intervene and steal the ring back and [TS]

  the problem with that is there's just [TS]

  not enough of that to carry the rest of [TS]

  the story and so in the second movie you [TS]

  know they kind of the kind of vanish and [TS]

  you feel like you know it's like those [TS]

  middle seasons of lost we're just trying [TS]

  to stretch it out we got we're not ready [TS]

  yet just keep on stretching it out and [TS]

  it's really that part is frustrating and [TS]

  you know I i like i like the two towers [TS]

  really because photos nowhere near Helms [TS]

  team you know things that I judge these [TS]

  movies on for my enjoyment is how much [TS]

  do I like the thing that the that I [TS]

  guess the Saturday the setting for the [TS]

  thing how much do I like the setting out [TS]

  and you know they made all the wonderful [TS]

  practical sets with Hobbiton and shower [TS]

  and everything like that but like for [TS]

  example rollin I like wherever that is [TS]

  New Zealand that was shot i like the [TS]

  horses i feel like the wind swept area [TS]

  right and I like less the Giant you know [TS]

  cg city of Gondor whatever so a lot of a [TS]

  lot of my affection for the moon for [TS]

  example and fellowship i like them going [TS]

  down the river like the big statues with [TS]

  your hands up the Glen will know the [TS]

  names up little statues are great like [TS]

  those parts of the movie like some [TS]

  people make fun of my spectacles like it [TS]

  was giant [TS]

  possibly like all just a bunch of robots [TS]

  fighting but there are beautiful places [TS]

  in New Zealand that have filmed in this [TS]

  movie in a nice way with with very hokey [TS]

  music over it but you know right well [TS]

  that's what I'm saying about the first [TS]

  movies I feel like there is less of that [TS]

  elaboration on what is already there and [TS]

  looks beautiful i mean even the smaller [TS]

  sets things like whether top and a [TS]

  Manhattan at the end which is like I [TS]

  think my favorite like battle scene in [TS]

  the entire movie is Aragorn and against [TS]

  all the orcs means they works are really [TS]

  crappy by the way they died way too easy [TS]

  the reliance on practical effects is [TS]

  what the same way that we talked about [TS]

  this with you know something like Star [TS]

  Wars where the reliance on models over [TS]

  the reliance on the cgi stuff which [TS]

  seems very solace I think that's to me [TS]

  what I really loved about Jackson's [TS]

  interpretation was I could easily see [TS]

  almost any other director going to be [TS]

  like oh well we could make you know [TS]

  Giants but whatever that's way too [TS]

  expensive we're just gonna we're gonna [TS]

  do everything in CGI you know and we'll [TS]

  knock it off for half the price [TS]

  otherwise the soundstages where the top [TS]

  is no good though [TS]

  Mickey yeah well whether top prospect of [TS]

  making this argument final decade is [TS]

  because when the Phantom Menace others [TS]

  came out and it was obvious from the [TS]

  beginning there it had that green screen [TS]

  feel everything about it felt artificial [TS]

  they were never interact with real [TS]

  objects real places and you juxtapose [TS]

  that fellowship came out and it felt [TS]

  real i remember one of the actors [TS]

  talking about a scene in the mines of [TS]

  moria where he's like we're in this room [TS]

  and it's like we're in the minds of [TS]

  others cameras and stuff i look down the [TS]

  floor and there's a piece of paper i [TS]

  pick it up and it's covered with [TS]

  dwarvish writing it's not they they were [TS]

  in a space that was designed to make [TS]

  them feel real Andy Serkis way into the [TS]

  motion capture was there acting with the [TS]

  performance he wasn't it wasn't them [TS]

  acting too empty air and they dropped in [TS]

  the cgi later they were all in a space [TS]

  working together that had real depth and [TS]

  character they could work through there [TS]

  was a bit actually you know walk a half [TS]

  a mile or whatever they were walking 10 [TS]

  feet over and over again that's the [TS]

  depressing part of these movies is that [TS]

  I realized they spent so much money on [TS]

  these movies and these are the people [TS]

  and people who made these props cared so [TS]

  much and yet still I think some of the [TS]

  practical sets don't look that good and [TS]

  like it because I want him comparing it [TS]

  to is the natural beauty New Zealand [TS]

  which they didn't have to manufacture [TS]

  like those mountains are there right and [TS]

  you can fly the helicopter over them in [TS]

  the Sun actually sets and it's like boy [TS]

  you know you can't buy that and they [TS]

  built these awesome sets we did [TS]

  best job they could possibly do with all [TS]

  this money like they built home Steven [TS]

  that sometimes don't like em ory looks a [TS]

  little bit like a soundstage guys sorry [TS]

  I mean like how much better can they do [TS]

  it like a i'm a big proponent of [TS]

  technology i feel like you know in 50 [TS]

  years you can do the Rings over again [TS]

  with CW making her to meet you and John [TS]

  will have to invent time machines to go [TS]

  back in time build maurya let it age for [TS]

  thousands video so they can come back [TS]

  and film in there but you can use a [TS]

  computer for that I'm saying like it [TS]

  like this is the best that they probably [TS]

  could have made it given the amount of [TS]

  money but still sometimes you like and [TS]

  really it what happened what happens is [TS]

  be compared to the actual natural beauty [TS]

  of a real place on the sets that we [TS]

  built can hold up to that that's you [TS]

  know the lawrence of arabia factors like [TS]

  look at a real desert you know looks [TS]

  good on camera but if you have to do [TS]

  stuff on a soundstage it looks very [TS]

  different so I'm not faulting filmmakers [TS]

  for that but it just goes to show like [TS]

  when they said this movie these movies [TS]

  are unfilmable I kind of see why they [TS]

  would say that because they did that [TS]

  these people like this is a great team [TS]

  they really want to do it but still [TS]

  sometimes I'm like now forced [TS]

  perspective not quite working for me [TS]

  they're all that sets not that great i [TS]

  know your props are beautiful you know [TS]

  if you listen to the directors [TS]

  commentary I've listened to Jackson his [TS]

  wife and the the writing partner Kyle I [TS]

  became a witch 1i watches a couple years [TS]

  ago and there's a part where they're [TS]

  they're actually joking there because [TS]

  they go through their like yeah they're [TS]

  like well for the 25th extraversion 20th [TS]

  anniversary edition will change that [TS]

  they'll start laughing it's clear they [TS]

  have a list of their head of all the [TS]

  stuff and different scenes they start [TS]

  talking about it and they're not being [TS]

  negative but they're being a little ride [TS]

  and they're like oh yeah we wanted to [TS]

  look like that we couldn't like after [TS]

  the 25th anniversary edition so you know [TS]

  they've got like a shot list of what [TS]

  they're going to do with the technology [TS]

  is new with rendering is a thousand [TS]

  times again they're going to insert [TS]

  hayden christensen as one of those [TS]

  ghosts Kings lego a shot first man [TS]

  damnation Weathertop and jon was talking [TS]

  earlier about things that he sees his [TS]

  mind when he's reading the book versus [TS]

  what was the movie two things in this [TS]

  movie matched more closely i think than [TS]

  any movie I've seen based on a book [TS]

  well other than I guess like watch men [TS]

  where they literally took the pages and [TS]

  made them the storyboard all when it [TS]

  also went to yet when it's a comic books [TS]

  all right it's a little bit different [TS]

  act but but the the scene where they [TS]

  hide under the roots of the tree to get [TS]

  off the road [TS]

  when the women on school come by is [TS]

  exactly how I pictured it when i read [TS]

  the book that's also a great scene i [TS]

  love that I love everything about the [TS]

  beginning when the you know they're [TS]

  running away from the rates right nice [TS]

  and scary it's very it's very [TS]

  atmospheric yeah oh yeah and my kids [TS]

  were definitely terrified at that part [TS]

  which was good because they're supposed [TS]

  to be that's a scalar scary the [TS]

  screeching and it is that screeching [TS]

  let's know it's not the screeching at [TS]

  the sniffing sniffing part only address [TS]

  write a lot of me though and Weathertop [TS]

  Weathertop actually looks like I thought [TS]

  it would be pictured as a soundstage [TS]

  know it's a it's a hill with rocks right [TS]

  but it was a little high Landry actually [TS]

  no one around so that was surprised i [TS]

  like so much didn't hit me the right way [TS]

  although i love Weathertop how I copped [TS]

  a shot now John you mentioned helicopter [TS]

  shadow i'm totally with you i'm totally [TS]

  with it takes me it takes me out of the [TS]

  whole story where I'm like what am I am [TS]

  i flying that's a helicopter their legal [TS]

  field with a camera in an eagle it fluid [TS]

  they take me out of it every time in [TS]

  their beautiful shots of the scenery but [TS]

  it takes me out of it [TS]

  the signal fires is the one time it [TS]

  works because then it's actually makes [TS]

  sense you're following the signal fire [TS]

  but i do like the helicopter shots if [TS]

  only because it's like wow they really [TS]

  like think how much land they had to [TS]

  clear out of the way many people filming [TS]

  feel like there's like a hundred miles [TS]

  around there's nobody there with these [TS]

  six guys impressive and beautiful it [TS]

  just takes me out of the out of the [TS]

  movie entirely and I think that's a [TS]

  helicopter and I do every single time I [TS]

  think that's a helicopter in it and it's [TS]

  just there's something about it that [TS]

  it's ok it's interesting to think about [TS]

  like how how we've been programmed by [TS]

  previous movies it's like whenever I see [TS]

  a movie that's filming on an epic scale [TS]

  at some point i'm drawing back on the [TS]

  language that I learned like with those [TS]

  huge like cinerama like David Lee way [TS]

  Lawrence of Arabia from the 16 right and [TS]

  like well the heat he didn't have a [TS]

  helicopter available he had a huge [TS]

  freaking platform they lock the camera [TS]

  down on and so at all so he didn't have [TS]

  like five lk occasionally had a couple [TS]

  thousand extras but rarely could you [TS]

  have five thousand extras and monster [TS]

  costumes swarming in a formation that is [TS]

  really kind really very very good but it [TS]

  looks like it's been so nicely tweak to [TS]

  make sure that every orc is exactly [TS]

  where this creature needs to be and so [TS]

  kind of fun [TS]

  reminds the reality of it that if he [TS]

  just went 2-1 establishing shot this is [TS]

  okay by the way huge field of battle [TS]

  many things going on you got five so you [TS]

  got three seconds to look at album ok [TS]

  let's put her down that field of battle [TS]

  you'll be able to see likes different [TS]

  spots about it because you get with [TS]

  either the fourth or fifth or sixth time [TS]

  you see that helicopter shot that [TS]

  sweeping you know you want to hear that [TS]

  yeah yeah okay so I be a mouse I've just [TS]

  been caught carried off by a hawk i'm [TS]

  about to be desired meeting but I get to [TS]

  see you know the hills are new zealand [TS]

  before I go okay that's nice nice last [TS]

  thing before i die so this is the part [TS]

  where we wear like peter jackson i say [TS]

  i'm going to split this podcast in two [TS]

  perhaps three now too so we're going to [TS]

  stop it here we will pick it up in the [TS]

  next episode where I hate to say it but [TS]

  I think there's going to be a lot of [TS]

  wandering around with hobbits and column [TS]

  and maybe some battles but in this [TS]

  episode III think we're just gonna end [TS]

  it here and i'm going to say goodbye for [TS]

  now to the members of my fellowship John [TS]

  siracusa thank you [TS]

  not all those who wander are lost Jason [TS]

  please come back next time for more [TS]

  wisdom like that i will you promise I do [TS]

  ok good Dan Morgan thank you for taking [TS]

  half of this journey with me i really [TS]

  hope that someday I get compared to [TS]

  Boromir wait for it [TS]

  Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

  here uh I hope this more elvish in the [TS]

  next episode [TS]

  Lucien's new video I hope there's the [TS]

  last selfish couldn't have said it [TS]

  better myself and indian taco [TS]

  thank you for being here too as soon as [TS]

  this podcast is over I'm gonna have big [TS]

  taters big bull Gators baked potatoes [TS]

  loaded with butter if i ever get home [TS]

  after this broadcast and a nice fat [TS]

  Coney until next time when we talked [TS]

  about many more Lords many more rings [TS]

  Elfie door fee Hobbit 104 not so much [TS]

  about hobbit 2 and 3 this is jason l for [TS]

  the uncomfortable thanks for listening [TS]

  come back we promise we'll talk about [TS]

  this more in another episode until then [TS]

  goodbye [TS]