The Incomparable

109: Evil, Surfing Ronald McDonald

 

  the incomparable podcast number 109 [TS]

  September atlantique well welcome back [TS]

  to the incomparable podcast and Jason [TS]

  smell your host and I'm convening a very [TS]

  strange episode of our book club because [TS]

  many of our usual book club participants [TS]

  are not here when fleischmann didn't [TS]

  read the book Glenn damn Warren didn't [TS]

  read the book [TS]

  damn it Randy called well know John [TS]

  siracusa a bit of a slow reader John [TS]

  siracusa here's who read the book of [TS]

  course Scott McNulty read the book [TS]

  because he suggested the book and we do [TS]

  well apparently not i was gonna say we [TS]

  do what Scott says but apparently I do [TS]

  what Scott says I read this book Scott [TS]

  thank you for being here with Jason [TS]

  thank you for doing my bidding once [TS]

  again [TS]

  yep that's why obey and strangely enough [TS]

  because we thought him actually [TS]

  illiterate Steve let's also read the [TS]

  book hi Steve [TS]

  hello there how many how many books do [TS]

  you read usually many are you are you an [TS]

  avid reader that we just did and you [TS]

  just downplay it [TS]

  this makes 1 i'm so the first book you [TS]

  read [TS]

  yeah it was it was a kind of rough start [TS]

  but now I I read when I get the chance [TS]

  but there's usually I usually find [TS]

  myself with so much media at my [TS]

  fingertips and so many other options to [TS]

  fill my time that I tend to not do so [TS]

  much reading unless I find myself say in [TS]

  a restaurant by myself or somewhere [TS]

  actually have nothing better to do real [TS]

  well you crap you travel so I would [TS]

  imagine that I do that that happens that [TS]

  you're in a recent so usually I i read [TS]

  books in fits and starts and if I don't [TS]

  finish it in one trip there's about you [TS]

  know maybe a month gap and then I [TS]

  finished the book and forgotten by that [TS]

  time everything that was in the first [TS]

  half of the book and of course I read it [TS]

  in like one hour to an hour and a half [TS]

  it increments because that's how long it [TS]

  takes to [TS]

  free meal when our meal when you're [TS]

  sitting and reading sound so that would [TS]

  be complicated if you forgot about this [TS]

  book halfway through its a slow and [TS]

  painful process [TS]

  yeah yes this book this book is a [TS]

  strange example so we're talking about [TS]

  our book selection for this episode is [TS]

  cloud atlas a novel it's not the cloud [TS]

  atlas that's just like it's not you it's [TS]

  not though you're rich mix remix not the [TS]

  cloud atlas its cloud atlas obvious lie [TS]

  i know by british author david mitchell [TS]

  who is not the same david mitchell who [TS]

  is in the comedy team [TS]

  mitchell and webb even though same name [TS]

  both British not the same guy as far as [TS]

  i can tell and this is from 2004 and it [TS]

  won some awards shortlisted for some [TS]

  more awards but what's most interesting [TS]

  about it perhaps in the in this yea year [TS]

  2012 is that the Wachowskis and the guy [TS]

  who edited or who directed run lola run [TS]

  are collaborating on this blockbuster [TS]

  Hollywood although it's funded by German [TS]

  so for linear would I don't know [TS]

  blockbuster movie that's coming out in [TS]

  in October make the Wachowskis are [TS]

  behind this [TS]

  yeah and and Tom tight tight cover the [TS]

  the run lola run guy so that when she [TS]

  asks haven't ruined anything in awhile [TS]

  and they decided they decide they're [TS]

  gonna ruin this book in a great so stiff [TS]

  so but we read it before that and as [TS]

  Escott pointed out you want to read the [TS]

  book before you every character in it is [TS]

  just in your head is Tom Hanks just as a [TS]

  shield against the destruction that will [TS]

  undoubtedly be wrecked upon it by the [TS]

  film crew and reading the book i have a [TS]

  hard time [TS]

  wha wrapping my head around how this [TS]

  movie is going to work at all but yeah [TS]

  yeah it's a strange it's a strange book [TS]

  um so let's let's start there with the [TS]

  structure this book this book is is a [TS]

  series of interconnected stories and yes [TS]

  let's fire off the soap spoiler horn [TS]

  and we're going to talk about the [TS]

  contents of the book spoilers contents [TS]

  of the book could be considered spoil it [TS]

  it's a series of these inner inner [TS]

  walking stories right so there's there's [TS]

  a story about a guy in like 1850 who's [TS]

  on a ship in the Pacific Ocean and very [TS]

  specific islands there's a story about a [TS]

  British composer who is in Belgium as [TS]

  the a- ensis that I pronounce that sure [TS]

  sounds good why not he's the assistant [TS]

  to a compete with heat finagles his way [TS]

  into being an assistant to a famous [TS]

  composer inside that story is a story in [TS]

  the nineteen seventies in a fictional [TS]

  Southern California city about a plucky [TS]

  young journalist who is on the case of [TS]

  corporate crime inside that story is a [TS]

  story about a UH a vanity press [TS]

  publisher in England who is runs afoul [TS]

  of the family of one of his authors and [TS]

  has to flee and he's accidentally [TS]

  committed to an old age home by his [TS]

  brother right [TS]

  I'm trying to make sure I got all of [TS]

  these at inside that one is a story [TS]

  about a clone who is a genetically [TS]

  engineered person who's been engineered [TS]

  to basically be a waitress at a korean [TS]

  mcdonalds except they put something in [TS]

  her food that makes her fully aware and [TS]

  smart instead of all of her other clones [TS]

  who are not particularly intelligent [TS]

  because they've been engineered that way [TS]

  to just be happy as servers and then [TS]

  inside that one at the core of this is a [TS]

  story about a guy [TS]

  Zachary who tom hanks seriously no i [TS]

  don't i know i know it's crazy i will [TS]

  afterward I looked up which I don't [TS]

  think so he's not playing every [TS]

  characters playing half like half of and [TS]

  Jim Broadbent i think is playing with [TS]

  her anyway [TS]

  Zachary I was a resident of the big [TS]

  island of hawaii in a post [TS]

  apocalyptic civilization has completely [TS]

  crashed and there's a sort of chaos and [TS]

  barbarism on the island and their [TS]

  visited by one of the last bastions of [TS]

  civilization in the world there's a [TS]

  visitor who comes and visits them and so [TS]

  these these seemingly unrelated stories [TS]

  are are chained together in this book [TS]

  and what stranger is they're chained [TS]

  together in this nesting configuration [TS]

  where you read the first half of all [TS]

  these stories going forward in time and [TS]

  then the last story you read the whole [TS]

  thing and then it backs you out and you [TS]

  read the second half of all of the [TS]

  stories going backward all the way to [TS]

  the beginning it is absolutely crazy it [TS]

  is crazy she turns out is actually kind [TS]

  of a bad idea because the first couple [TS]

  of segments are kind of slow going and [TS]

  not quite as interesting as the middle [TS]

  segment so that you get to that the last [TS]

  two segments you get past the second the [TS]

  recent at second half of the Luisa Rey [TS]

  part and suddenly you're just like I'm [TS]

  not sure everything went to tell what [TS]

  about their to the new pocket of the [TS]

  islands special yeah so I i think that I [TS]

  having read the whole book I found it [TS]

  fascinating that so there are these six [TS]

  nested stories and they are [TS]

  interconnected so the first story is a [TS]

  journal that the main character in the [TS]

  second story finds the first half of [TS]

  historian has exactly and the second so [TS]

  the main character in the second half of [TS]

  the book is it the second story in the [TS]

  book i should say it's written as a [TS]

  series of letters and those letters are [TS]

  to the character in the third story of [TS]

  the book who is in this Luisa Rey [TS]

  mystery which turns out to be a [TS]

  manuscript yes that is submitted to the [TS]

  vanity press publisher the vanity press [TS]

  publisher who have initial Cavendish who [TS]

  becomes a star in a movie [TS]

  there's a movie based on his story based [TS]

  on his story which is named for the [TS]

  clone yes which screen for the clone and [TS]

  then the the post-apocalyptic one [TS]

  somehow the clone I think becomes like a [TS]

  good [TS]

  that the in the the clone stories told [TS]

  us her interrogation by sort of a record [TS]

  keeper and put on a hologram and I [TS]

  hologram is shown by the the black class [TS]

  representative of civilization visiting [TS]

  the Big Island of Hawaii [TS]

  the little hologram is shown to the [TS]

  people there [TS]

  I mean wow [TS]

  right i mean you can't fault the the [TS]

  author for being ambitious right it is [TS]

  it is a crazy chain of events rolled [TS]

  into a novel and it's very specifically [TS]

  called I at least on my kindle it's [TS]

  called cloud atlas colon a novel as if [TS]

  to remind you you are actually reading a [TS]

  novel [TS]

  it's not just a short story collection [TS]

  that ends maddeningly in the middle of [TS]

  every story it's a novel [TS]

  yeah and and i think it's interesting [TS]

  that so the six stories are written in [TS]

  very different styles as well [TS]

  no you can't you don't get he doesn't [TS]

  let you really rest at all because it [TS]

  keeps changing not only all the [TS]

  characters and storylines but how he is [TS]

  writing them as well the first the first [TS]

  one is written in the style of of of the [TS]

  pros of the mid-nineteenth century which [TS]

  is to say nearly unreadable in it is it [TS]

  style it [TS]

  yeah it's a tough tough going first 50 [TS]

  pages or so which is when I I suggested [TS]

  we read this book I i made sure to point [TS]

  out to everyone [TS]

  the first part is the most difficult I [TS]

  think to really I gras which then makes [TS]

  the last part the least satisfying [TS]

  reason i think yes but I oddly enough I [TS]

  I didn't think the first part i didn't [TS]

  have that much trouble with the first [TS]

  part which sort of shocked me because I [TS]

  i recognized as i was reading it that [TS]

  the language was a bit shall we say [TS]

  Florida and a little stilted and and and [TS]

  a lot of archaic words were in use and [TS]

  but I i was kind of impressed with [TS]

  myself because i realized i was reading [TS]

  it hot [TS]

  I know most of the school and then you [TS]

  know I'd run across some mention of some [TS]

  historical thing that happened and it [TS]

  just happened to be something that I [TS]

  randomly knew about so I think I kind of [TS]

  locked into a greater appreciation of [TS]

  that first portion i got a second part [TS]

  and and because i guess i had trekked [TS]

  through the first portion of it the sex [TS]

  and second half of it actually rolled [TS]

  even even quicker strangers like I'd [TS]

  prime to myself and then having taken a [TS]

  break and read through the easier stuff [TS]

  in the middle i was ready to go back to [TS]

  it and my mental muscle for that kind of [TS]

  prose is the rest agree that's the great [TS]

  cliff hanger where we discover that that [TS]

  the the protagonist of that section has [TS]

  been told that he has a brain worm that [TS]

  can only be treated by his quack of a [TS]

  doctor by giving him cocaine as far as i [TS]

  can tell here have some more cocaine you [TS]

  know it works [TS]

  yeah yeah and then you left sort of [TS]

  wondering is he going to die and it [TS]

  turns out that the book we discover in [TS]

  the next section the book has been torn [TS]

  in half and he doesn't know where the [TS]

  other half of the book is and only at [TS]

  the end or do we discovered that it's I [TS]

  didn't used to like prop up the bed so [TS]

  that doesn't slant and he pulls it out [TS]

  in the wedge where it is and yeah how [TS]

  lucky for us he happened to look under [TS]

  the bed and find that second half [TS]

  yes it would have been a lopsided novel [TS]

  if it lasts actually has found that I [TS]

  never yes different dr timothy or 10 who [TS]

  is he writing to 6 minutes 26 minutes i [TS]

  couldn't find the other part of that [TS]

  book I don't know what happened to that [TS]

  fellow who had been given the cocaine [TS]

  for the brain worm that anyway that life [TS]

  is terrible goodbye help when you guys [TS]

  got to the end of the first portion and [TS]

  it just cut off in mid-sentence did you [TS]

  go looking to see if maybe you had a [TS]

  misprint you get kindle the conversions [TS]

  right version CII was rolling around in [TS]

  the back trying to find out of page 41 [TS]

  ended up stuck in the wrong section of [TS]

  the book i just made me laugh similar [TS]

  experience I just thought it was a crazy [TS]

  stunt by the by the writer and then of [TS]

  course in a second when when when the [TS]

  character in the second section [TS]

  discovers this and is infuriated by the [TS]

  fact that it ends in the middle of this [TS]

  side bad laughs again that's I think one [TS]

  of my favorite things about this book is [TS]

  that it's so self-conscious and it keeps [TS]

  making references to itself [TS]

  oh yes like I i think in that's that [TS]

  second section Frobisher actually says [TS]

  the language doesn't ring true in the [TS]

  journal yes so like he's aware that he's [TS]

  only partially researched what [TS]

  writing should sound like coming from [TS]

  1850 he doesn't believe that that it may [TS]

  even not even be true right i mean [TS]

  there's a question throughout about all [TS]

  I mean about accuracy because in the eye [TS]

  in the section about uh saw me the the [TS]

  clone you know she's not seeing the [TS]

  reality of Timothy Cavendish's life and [TS]

  his being committed to the home and [TS]

  escaping in a wacky adventures sequence [TS]

  that will be perfect for the movie she's [TS]

  watching the movie about it right so [TS]

  it's it's not as if the reality is [TS]

  necessarily entirely collect connected [TS]

  and they these stories i had had that [TS]

  moment of wondering whether the stories [TS]

  that we are looking at you know are on [TS]

  one level we want to believe that [TS]

  they're all connected and we're watching [TS]

  in some ways like reincarnation of all [TS]

  these people throughout history on [TS]

  another level it sort of suggesting that [TS]

  we're watching a stack of all most [TS]

  unreliable narrators going so by the [TS]

  time we get to 22 last one I mean we've [TS]

  gone through so many different [TS]

  mediations you know hologram and movie [TS]

  based on a book and a novel based on [TS]

  real events ? you know and then and then [TS]

  the letters and then this crazy journal [TS]

  that you've gotta wonder whether this is [TS]

  all you know is that is any of this real [TS]

  you know or or not it's crazy pretty [TS]

  funny [TS]

  look of course as the readers were aware [TS]

  that all these people are are coming [TS]

  from the pen of David Mitchell so I just [TS]

  thought it was very endearing that he [TS]

  chose to head off his critics at the [TS]

  past by it openly stating that the [TS]

  language is wrong in the Ewing journal [TS]

  and I Timothy Cavendish calls the [TS]

  writing in the Luisa Rey book arts leaf [TS]

  parsley clever at one point right so of [TS]

  course he's referring his own writing in [TS]

  that section that's quite funny and he [TS]

  even even at has an answer for you know [TS]

  that the the fact that you could [TS]

  reasonably say well that Timothy [TS]

  Cavender section is basically one flew [TS]

  over the cuckoo's nest with an old guy [TS]

  right or the UH sonmi 451 section is [TS]

  basically just every seventies dystopian [TS]

  flicks right-click all mixed together [TS]

  but then he goes through this this this [TS]

  long long but it goes through like half [TS]

  a paragraph saying that he says that the [TS]

  ghost of Sir Felix Finch wines but it's [TS]

  been done a hundred times before as if [TS]

  there could be anything not done a [TS]

  hundred thousand times between [TS]

  Aristophanes and andrew void Webber as [TS]

  if art is the what not the how so he's [TS]

  actually coming out and saying you know [TS]

  it's that it's the how here right [TS]

  it doesn't really matter that I've [TS]

  recycled 20 different stories from you [TS]

  know from the past the point is that [TS]

  that we're getting there in interesting [TS]

  and different way [TS]

  yeah yeah I I've read a lot of different [TS]

  books in different styles and I don't [TS]

  recall ever reading something that was [TS]

  as audacious is this as a trying to [TS]

  connect these totally different [TS]

  completely different genres completely [TS]

  different timeframes having them connect [TS]

  in a bunch of different ways and then [TS]

  commenting on itself as it goes it's you [TS]

  know it's a Scottish it have you did [TS]

  this call to mind other things that [TS]

  you've read i know that you have booked [TS]

  amnesia but I i do have a often have [TS]

  booked amnesia but i've read so this is [TS]

  in the kind of the school of a [TS]

  postmodernism i suppose in that it is a [TS]

  very cognizant of its own story telling [TS]

  and structure and it's a pastiche of a [TS]

  variety of different stories like Steve [TS]

  was saying and so one of the ways that [TS]

  you know there's this whole school of [TS]

  thought literature that there's nothing [TS]

  new in under the Sun so you can just [TS]

  kind of take the already existing [TS]

  components and reconfigure them and the [TS]

  only way to make art is to basically [TS]

  remix other things that people have done [TS]

  so that is what I think that he is [TS]

  trying to do here so i cannot think of [TS]

  any particular novels that do it as far [TS]

  as he has tried tried to take it whether [TS]

  and so that leads me two of my own [TS]

  question for both of you so he is trying [TS]

  this we can agree that it's a very [TS]

  ambitious novel and I wonder as both of [TS]

  you as readers did it work for you or [TS]

  did you think you were he was spending [TS]

  too much time with like you know [TS]

  technical wizardry and kind of trying to [TS]

  make it work as opposed to telling a [TS]

  compelling story or six compelling [TS]

  stories about us you know uh I think [TS]

  they work to to varying degrees [TS]

  I actually felt like you know some of [TS]

  the stories i hope i thought were really [TS]

  excellently done and others i found less [TS]

  compelling I mean I honestly found that [TS]

  that that first story not particularly [TS]

  interesting it got there were there are [TS]

  some interesting moments i think the [TS]

  second half was more interesting than [TS]

  the first but I you know I really liked [TS]

  the Luisa Rey section I'm I kind of got [TS]

  into the the the composer story after a [TS]

  while and realizing i was reading a 20 i [TS]

  almost like a Fitzgerald kind of this [TS]

  this is a miserable human being that i'm [TS]

  reading a story of and when I realized [TS]

  that I wasn't really supposed to like [TS]

  him and he does a series of terrible [TS]

  things and it reminded me a lot of [TS]

  Sorrows of Young Harris did you know [TS]

  yeah yeah i was very reminiscent that [TS]

  particularly in the second half when he [TS]

  you know he meets his demise of his own [TS]

  yes very romantic about the whole thing [TS]

  and his oldest is a his epic dissing by [TS]

  the girl yes daughter of the composer [TS]

  yeah yeah i do so i ended up when I [TS]

  realized what I was seeing there and [TS]

  almost like when I realized what the [TS]

  template was and it's in the template is [TS]

  no I get it I I see what's going on here [TS]

  I you know but the loser a mystery that [TS]

  but you know breezy 70 is almost you [TS]

  know it's almost like a I mean there are [TS]

  plenty of examples of that seventies [TS]

  crime you know [TS]

  plucky plucky journalist detective thing [TS]

  I that was really enjoyable that was a [TS]

  lot of fun [TS]

  the Cavendish thing was not it was ok [TS]

  this on me section i really liked and [TS]

  the and the the Zachary section parts of [TS]

  it were good but I felt like it went on [TS]

  too long it didn't get cut in half like [TS]

  the others maybe that was one of the [TS]

  reasons why I felt like I sort of scene [TS]

  apocalyptic I mean it was almost like [TS]

  something out of Paolo Bacigalupi except [TS]

  not and I think not [TS]

  not as good as that I i was reminded of [TS]

  Paolo Bacigalupi as i read that [TS]

  yeah yeah i mean it's it's post-op echo [TS]

  about the apocalypse post-apocalyptic [TS]

  thing right I gotta read some of his [TS]

  books so that I just have the [TS]

  opportunity to say is not a budget let's [TS]

  move on [TS]

  yeah oh yeah but the loop electrical is [TS]

  fun to say but you're gonna be even [TS]

  Mitchell Mitchell david mitchell [TS]

  mitchell you so so I guess [TS]

  Scott asked to answer your question uh [TS]

  you know I think it's a mixed bag i [TS]

  think there's some stories that i really [TS]

  liked another stories that were were [TS]

  okay and once I realized with the [TS]

  premise was I really was excited when I [TS]

  got to this on me story i was excited to [TS]

  know that I had the rest of the Luisa [TS]

  Rey mystery coming up after I got [TS]

  through Timothy Cavendish right it's and [TS]

  turns out the Timothy Cavendish and is [TS]

  also a lot of fun because there is a [TS]

  whole you know escape from the old age [TS]

  home plot that happens that's actually [TS]

  i'm using to I mean I i should say we [TS]

  can make the sound like a ponderous you [TS]

  know just no fun [TS]

  that's very serious from many [TS]

  experimental postmodern themes and but [TS]

  you know there's there's like a you know [TS]

  a car crash at a nuclear reactor [TS]

  that's going to blow up and kill [TS]

  everybody and there's like a old people [TS]

  escaped from the old age home by lying [TS]

  and locking people in that in you know [TS]

  mean nurse ratched types and in rooms [TS]

  and I mean there's a lot of fun [TS]

  cookie stuff in here too it's not all [TS]

  kind of no fun and and just work and I [TS]

  think you can read it you can totally [TS]

  read this book without you know [TS]

  pondering all the different connections [TS]

  and just read it as kind of six [TS]

  interlocking stories that the author has [TS]

  chosen to tell for some reason together [TS]

  we don't know what ponder about you know [TS]

  why the yes-mo music keeps coming up all [TS]

  right you know why the number six keeps [TS]

  going around or what [TS]

  which character is the supposedly the [TS]

  same character throughout the different [TS]

  stories you just read it for the fun as [TS]

  long as you get past the first part [TS]

  didn't you you're good to go hard for me [TS]

  as it as a collection of short stories I [TS]

  liked it a lot [TS]

  I actually I think I pretty much liked [TS]

  every section 22 varying degrees but I [TS]

  didn't really find one that I just [TS]

  absolutely hated but as far as the whole [TS]

  interlocking thread and the you know [TS]

  that the various characters and the [TS]

  souls you know drifting through time and [TS]

  space like clouds that to me didn't work [TS]

  as well yeah I thought it was a lie i [TS]

  thought it was very clever [TS]

  I mean you can't really read this [TS]

  without coming away with that was [TS]

  extremely clever and it was neat the way [TS]

  it all fit together and i enjoyed you [TS]

  know trying to pick out which character [TS]

  was which but when I got to the end and [TS]

  is as I got closer and closer to the end [TS]

  and I was taking off the second half of [TS]

  these stories i kept thinking well at [TS]

  some point the purpose for this [TS]

  character being the same throughout all [TS]

  these times is going to become clear and [TS]

  there's going to be some big revelation [TS]

  ah and when I got to the end it turned [TS]

  out that the only thing i could really [TS]

  gather in the last couple of pages was i [TS]

  just logged through a whole lot of text [TS]

  for what basically amounts to be [TS]

  excellent to each other [TS]

  I mean today at the great revelation is [TS]

  the great revelation is that Adam Ewing [TS]

  decides that he's going to become a nap [TS]

  and abolitionist and of course with [TS]

  themes throughout of you know of [TS]

  eliminating variables and right but you [TS]

  know so what they're saying it to right [TS]

  we're all deeply and we're going to be [TS]

  here again and again and so you [TS]

  shouldn't enslave other people man [TS]

  right but you know it was it was a neat [TS]

  way to link the stories together i'm not [TS]

  sure it really was that much better [TS]

  having been linked other than you know [TS]

  the sort of experience of having seen [TS]

  him do that and kind of that was pretty [TS]

  cool what you did there but I don't [TS]

  think it really improved the stories in [TS]

  any great way because maybe I'm just too [TS]

  dense to to really catch the the [TS]

  overarching themes here but you have to [TS]

  me it was it almost don't want it when [TS]

  curry because it wasn't that bad but a [TS]

  little bit of that yeah i think it was [TS]

  it was on the the border you could see [TS]

  wang curry from where it was blackery [TS]

  was visible in the distance [TS]

  exactly it was it was a well done i [TS]

  think if if if David Mitchell were not [TS]

  as good a writer as he was as he is [TS]

  cause he's not dead as far as i know [TS]

  this book would be awful [TS]

  I i think it is i I really really [TS]

  enjoyed it and I like the mostly because [TS]

  I like books and authors who are very [TS]

  conscious of the fact that they're [TS]

  writing a book and I like I wasn't [TS]

  english major so I like slightly [TS]

  pretentious kinds of that uh huh [TS]

  thanks and you know you can you can [TS]

  imagine a lot of papers being written [TS]

  about the cloud atlas and the various [TS]

  linking between all the stories and what [TS]

  the characters are and who they [TS]

  represent and you know what [TS]

  what the theme throughout each story are [TS]

  so kind of spoke to my frustrated [TS]

  English majors yeah I i agree you know [TS]

  the artifice is is visible and I'm not [TS]

  sure all of it I mean I so I love the TV [TS]

  show Lost right and there are things [TS]

  about lost that were brilliant and their [TS]

  things about loss that were painful and [TS]

  that's what i was thinking about i was [TS]

  reading this book is like some of the [TS]

  connections they make because they're in [TS]

  lost you always have these people these [TS]

  crosses where you know [TS]

  turns out they knew somebody who knew [TS]

  that the other character when they [TS]

  before they got to the island right and [TS]

  in this there there's that same thing [TS]

  for these coincidences or are they [TS]

  and some of them i actually really loved [TS]

  and others i just went yeah okay you [TS]

  know you yet you gotta do it that's what [TS]

  this book is so you're gonna make the [TS]

  connection but like the the isle of [TS]

  lewis array trying to find the cloud [TS]

  atlas record that was composed by the [TS]

  guy in the previous story that was very [TS]

  lost I i love had them that music was [TS]

  playing in the that's the music plays in [TS]

  the cafe of son--my oh you know I don't [TS]

  think I even noticed that when she also [TS]

  passes by the prophetess as she's [TS]

  heading towards six Smith's boat moored [TS]

  in the harbor [TS]

  yes the adam ewing ship so I mean that [TS]

  all that stuff is cool [TS]

  yeah I mean I so I like that and I like [TS]

  the I like to the the sextet and of [TS]

  course the sex Ted is described as being [TS]

  these six different pieces for six [TS]

  different instruments that are then [TS]

  played in these interlocking things in [TS]

  that they started and then made and he's [TS]

  describing the structure of the book [TS]

  right at rightlook is the Cloud Atlas [TS]

  sextet that it and then and and the [TS]

  characters say I this music sounds [TS]

  familiar to me and that's the whole idea [TS]

  is that the music and the stories are [TS]

  repeating in these different timeframes [TS]

  and you know i like that [TS]

  yeah the bi have a comment shaped [TS]

  birthmark felt started to feel rather [TS]

  obligatory like yeah we're all [TS]

  resurrected later another buddies man [TS]

  that was that one didn't work so well [TS]

  for me I think I'll understand although [TS]

  at least there wasn't one of those like [TS]

  we were together 50 years ago and I love [TS]

  remains intact now in new bodies and [TS]

  know that there's none of that which is [TS]

  good but still so some of it works for [TS]

  me I guess is what I'm saying and some [TS]

  of it I was like yeah ok this is what [TS]

  you're trying to do and it didn't give [TS]

  me that that that kind of chill as when [TS]

  Luisa Rey goes into the record store and [TS]

  and the music is playing right i mean a [TS]

  lot of that stuff actually to me would [TS]

  have been almost unbearable except for [TS]

  the fact that he clearly has good humor [TS]

  about the whole thing [TS]

  and some of the other mentions of the [TS]

  sort of self-conscious references the [TS]

  previous chapters but also in that part [TS]

  where where he's where the sextet is [TS]

  being described a nice piece talking [TS]

  about the structure of it is identical [TS]

  to the structure of the book he actually [TS]

  says revolutionary or gimmicky can't [TS]

  know until it's finished and by then [TS]

  it'll be too late [TS]

  yeah it turns out in the end that yeah I [TS]

  was giving you but it because he noted [TS]

  that it's i'm i'm mad i'm inclined to [TS]

  give them a little bit of a path is [TS]

  enjoyable to listen to [TS]

  although the gimmick i have to say i am [TS]

  highlighted more passages from this book [TS]

  that I've done any book that i've ever [TS]

  read on the kindle I'm that must count [TS]

  for something so well no i mean because [TS]

  i kept the scene was it because you were [TS]

  searching for meaning and you kept [TS]

  thinking you would be able to go back [TS]

  and piece it all together know it was [TS]

  really more that this is one of those [TS]

  books where you can see the author being [TS]

  clever and you want two models down so [TS]

  that you can sail ever let later [TS]

  here are some clever things so so I'm [TS]

  looking at my notes now I was amused by [TS]

  when in the totalitarian future they [TS]

  make reference to two optimists [TS]

  translated from the late english or well [TS]

  and Huxley the implication being that in [TS]

  this core pakka see that is South Korea [TS]

  in the future or well and Huxley are [TS]

  considered great optimist that they they [TS]

  predicted that while the society that we [TS]

  live in would come to pass when most [TS]

  people didn't like sci-fi all of the [TS]

  apocalyptic sci-fi authors being a [TS]

  applauded by the people who manage the [TS]

  apocalypse [TS]

  thank you you got us right yeah that's [TS]

  as well as lots of cloud imagery the [TS]

  cloud imagery maybe roll my eyes a [TS]

  little bit i watch the clouds and [TS]

  athlete before triac oh yeah it's very [TS]

  meaning the books called cloud atlas [TS]

  there's mean issues clouds on every page [TS]

  gradually moving to the center of the [TS]

  book you cannot even get that did you [TS]

  know I'll see in the in the text version [TS]

  maybe this is the extra bonus for for [TS]

  buying the alt text version is in the [TS]

  adam ewing section there are clouds on [TS]

  the far side of each page so you know to [TS]

  the left of the left facing pages and [TS]

  the right of the right pages and then in [TS]

  each section [TS]

  those clouds gradually move towards the [TS]

  center for out that's grace and then [TS]

  after the solutions crossing section [TS]

  they either have crossed and removing [TS]

  the other way or they're going back in [TS]

  the other direction it's hard to say oh [TS]

  so you know there you go wow [TS]

  little more little more pretentious [TS]

  mystery so we talk about commenting on [TS]

  things also I you know as many stories i [TS]

  think that Scott loves this is also a [TS]

  story about storytelling and about how [TS]

  you know what's reality in which story [TS]

  is the real story and though the line [TS]

  that i highlighted that I really liked [TS]

  is when Sonny is snuck into this movie [TS]

  theater because movies or as they call [TS]

  them disney's have basically been [TS]

  outlawed because it's on meez period all [TS]

  of the proper all of our proper noun [TS]

  brand names have replaced the regular [TS]

  nouns and brand names everything is a [TS]

  brand name now by the generic word is [TS]

  that what we consider a brand name and [TS]

  they're no longer capitalized they're [TS]

  not a proper nouns know they're just [TS]

  regular the word for that Disney is a [TS]

  movie is now at disney hilarious thing [TS]

  is that it that includes all movies [TS]

  including apparently tentacle porn yes [TS]

  that's a distance is a sequence which [TS]

  suggests what is it that the the student [TS]

  that Scott charge of some sami 451 is [TS]

  watching believe the term is octopus [TS]

  rapine his skirt yeah yeah she's [TS]

  horrified i think that that's the first [TS]

  disney she oversees right and it's a [TS]

  disney yeah yeah so this is the part [TS]

  that I wouldn't be that that a that I [TS]

  think I mean this is what he's he's [TS]

  getting at this is other than be [TS]

  excellent to each other i think this is [TS]

  this is really what he's getting out [TS]

  which is she's watching this giants road [TS]

  the screen lit by sunlight capture [TS]

  through a lens when your grandfather's [TS]

  grandfather was kicking in his room time [TS]

  is the speed at which the past decays [TS]

  but disney's enable a prefect [TS]

  resurrection those since fallen [TS]

  buildings those long eroded faces your [TS]

  present not we is the true illusion they [TS]

  seem to say so you know that there is [TS]

  this throughout in all these sections [TS]

  there's this idea of what is some [TS]

  characters in our conversations about so [TS]

  what is real is the future real and just [TS]

  waiting to happen or is it not real you [TS]

  know is the past what [TS]

  what's real and the future isn't there's [TS]

  a whole conversation about how there's [TS]

  virtual pass and virtual futures and [TS]

  then I don't blame you one but you can [TS]

  never tell which one it is [TS]

  so there's a lot of that I like that I [TS]

  thought that was really interesting [TS]

  because the beauty of that is that's the [TS]

  guy on the plane strap with c4 and just [TS]

  after having right he thought he [TS]

  exploded he figures it all out and then [TS]

  the plane blows up [TS]

  it's sort of like the young girl in the [TS]

  cafe and rickmansworth who comes up with [TS]

  the solution to everybody be nice yes [TS]

  they're just before the Earth's blown up [TS]

  by the Vogon to hear ya [TS]

  and then it also in that section uh with [TS]

  some me it's it's kind of it's very sad [TS]

  because all these clones are are made so [TS]

  that they can be servers and they are in [TS]

  life to register and they worked for 12 [TS]

  years and they work for 12 years and [TS]

  they worship whatever the papasan [TS]

  papasan copy icon and so he's like an [TS]

  evil ronald mcdonald is how i was [TS]

  surfing ronald mcdonald he kept me and [TS]

  making me think of a beard papa the [TS]

  cream puffs free huh [TS]

  I but i assume that is not they'd [TS]

  probably not please I would hope so [TS]

  because after 12 years there they get to [TS]

  go to Hawaii to retire but Hawaii is [TS]

  actually a boat that's been converted [TS]

  into a huge killing floor in there they [TS]

  execute them and and butchery and then [TS]

  turn them into protein matter that goes [TS]

  back into the pop song factory [TS]

  yeah and so they could serve their the [TS]

  themselves basically I'm to their [TS]

  customers [TS]

  yeah that's very sad and it's kind of [TS]

  playing with the their perception of [TS]

  reality they think they happily go into [TS]

  this this killing floor because they [TS]

  think oh I'm boarding a plane to go to [TS]

  Hawaii so i can retire because I've [TS]

  heard it through this you know 20 hours [TS]

  a day of grueling work and eating my [TS]

  soap or whatever it is the right because [TS]

  they the the clones have been engineered [TS]

  to not eat human food so they have to [TS]

  eat this soap stuff and if they don't [TS]

  get it they shut down and they die and [TS]

  so it's there it's in everyone of these [TS]

  stories there's oppression and there's [TS]

  somebody who's extracting this method of [TS]

  control over somebody who's weaker and [TS]

  then with the with the clones it's this [TS]

  soap that that without the soap even [TS]

  even sewn me the the fully functional [TS]

  intelligent one she still has to eat so [TS]

  that's all she can eat [TS]

  it's crazy papasan green is fabric and [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  whatever the the thing right in that [TS]

  world is that the only the servers who [TS]

  don't know would be the ones who care [TS]

  because the customers they wouldn't care [TS]

  now they don't they treat the servers [TS]

  like their animals anyway so it wouldn't [TS]

  matter to them if they were eating their [TS]

  protein or not who cares prey and [TS]

  predators is another big subject and I [TS]

  I've got a highlighted true intellectual [TS]

  courage is to dispense with these fig [TS]

  leaves and admit all people are [TS]

  predatory but white predators with our [TS]

  deadly duet of disease Dustin firearms [TS]

  are examples of productivity par [TS]

  excellence and what of it this is the [TS]

  quote the quack doctor who actually is [TS]

  just a pro who preys on the on the on [TS]

  the the the guy on the on the ship and [TS]

  he observes all this racism and all of [TS]

  these other horrible things that [TS]

  happened to the to the the moriori which [TS]

  of the Pacific Islanders that are [TS]

  destroyed by the Mallory Islanders and [TS]

  the and then the white men are [TS]

  destroying the civilizations and this [TS]

  guy is preying on on the interviewing [TS]

  yeah Adam Ewing right so he's preying on [TS]

  adam ewing but he has this moment of [TS]

  clarity that really spells out in the [TS]

  last section of this book what is [TS]

  happening in all of these things in the [TS]

  book and he's got it it's the Guns Germs [TS]

  and Steel thing it's like you know [TS]

  everybody's predator predator here and [TS]

  you guys are saying how the white men [TS]

  are bringing civilization to everybody [TS]

  else here but that's not that's not [TS]

  what's happening at all you know this is [TS]

  just people and you're praying too and [TS]

  he's got this very clear vision that is [TS]

  right right it's unfortunately this [TS]

  awful person who's done these awful [TS]

  things as he's leaving this guy for dead [TS]

  is saying this that's something that's [TS]

  completely clear and that we've seen [TS]

  happening all the way into the future [TS]

  sort of but that that there's the [TS]

  problem that I had with that whole [TS]

  thread was that little the whole thread [TS]

  through time is that there's not really [TS]

  a lot of consistency and I would have [TS]

  expected when I sat down and thought [TS]

  okay well let's let's see here Adam [TS]

  Ewing at the end or the beginning as it [TS]

  were decides that he's going to be an [TS]

  abolitionist so all of the future [TS]

  characters that are him should also be [TS]

  you know Crusaders against slavery or or [TS]

  predatory practices or whatever [TS]

  and yet the next guy is more or less a [TS]

  self-absorbed dirtbag who sponges off of [TS]

  the composer's you know book collection [TS]

  right Bob you know an end has gambling [TS]

  debts and all this other stuff and more [TS]

  or less dies and ignominy and then cool [TS]

  Luisa Rey kinda fits that mold but [TS]

  Cavendish is more or less and nobody [TS]

  right eye is on me is again a bit of a [TS]

  freedom fighter and then Zachary yeah [TS]

  but it's that's not him it's a OS the [TS]

  woman Aaron is your interesting is the [TS]

  incarnation in that one [TS]

  yeah and she fits the mold but so you [TS]

  know I I kept looking for different [TS]

  places where there were clear [TS]

  similarities between all six characters [TS]

  and I couldn't find one and since it's a [TS]

  alternating if you if you look at the [TS]

  six stories right the first guy is a [TS]

  crusader the second guy is a jerk [TS]

  the right Louisa raise a crusader Tim [TS]

  Cavendish is basically a jerk and Sony [TS]

  is a crusader and then the last one I [TS]

  guess is a crusader for sure but she's [TS]

  the death the middle right right right [TS]

  you'd expect her to go Crusader to jerk [TS]

  the Crusader well she is she is visiting [TS]

  the natives right that's true and trying [TS]

  to save sort of trying to save you know [TS]

  civilization and all that so we're [TS]

  trying to save our own civilization [TS]

  socially yeah she's doing tested in the [TS]

  right technology that she thinks is [TS]

  hidden up in that the up at the top of [TS]

  Mauna Kea yeah yeah so so one of the [TS]

  things I like about about that line I [TS]

  gave earlier the of about the all people [TS]

  are predatory is that it's followed up [TS]

  by an observation that is a purely [TS]

  predatory world will consume itself said [TS]

  in 1850 by our first and last character [TS]

  and that that was much more resonant [TS]

  having seen it happen right [TS]

  having us literally walked through all [TS]

  the way to the future and seen the [TS]

  purely predatory world completely [TS]

  consumed itself to the point that [TS]

  civilization is completely destroyed and [TS]

  that was something I thought was [TS]

  effective about the story he was trying [TS]

  to tell and the way he told it is that [TS]

  he literally walked us to the end of [TS]

  time [TS]

  and then brought us back to something we [TS]

  would consider more reality because it's [TS]

  locked in the past to make that [TS]

  observation of like that you know now [TS]

  how do you think about this story is [TS]

  knowing where everything ends up which [TS]

  is there's no civilization and it's just [TS]

  savagery and it's pretty bleak too [TS]

  because even having destroyed the planet [TS]

  there's still predatory mr. they don't [TS]

  you still gotta come on don't be [TS]

  betraying on the weaker right and you [TS]

  got that interesting parallel between [TS]

  the kona and the valley dwellers I guess [TS]

  they are and the moriori and the Madame [TS]

  Mallory right it's this again you know [TS]

  they've got the people that refuse to [TS]

  defend themselves right and who got [TS]

  there a little culture and they've got [TS]

  the little place where they make all the [TS]

  drawings down that nobody knows about [TS]

  right there killed off by or in slavery [TS]

  as it were insulated what happens that's [TS]

  what happens to people who are good [TS]

  that's right well i'm depressed now but [TS]

  i did i did as as as you're coming back [TS]

  around from the last story I i really [TS]

  enjoyed those arrows that he keeps [TS]

  pointing backward in the story so in the [TS]

  what does it mean uh in a lisaraye [TS]

  section there's a the the corporation [TS]

  that runs the power plant talks about [TS]

  how it's our country's rightful [TS]

  corporate Empire the corporation's the [TS]

  future some things since like right uh [TS]

  yeah I guess it is that isn't that it [TS]

  turns out so not so good i really love [TS]

  that I i mean i'd like to talk about the [TS]

  loser a section for a moment just [TS]

  because it's great she's this she's this [TS]

  journalist at this really poor poorly [TS]

  thought of gossipy rag in what's the [TS]

  name of the z-plane us your best way [TS]

  miss your bus which is a it's like [TS]

  Sunnydale in buffy the vampire slayer [TS]

  it's a southern california city that [TS]

  doesn't exist but is near Los Angeles [TS]

  it's sort of like a fake Santa Barbara [TS]

  kinda I guess I don't know but she's [TS]

  about where i put it yeah so she's she's [TS]

  she gets the she onto the trail of this [TS]

  company that's building this giant [TS]

  nuclear power plant along the coast and [TS]

  it turns out that there in with the [TS]

  kind of military industrial complex and [TS]

  they're gonna generate all these nuclear [TS]

  by products that the government once and [TS]

  the it's unsafe and it's gonna because [TS]

  it's the seventies and it's a very Three [TS]

  Mile Island kind of story it's unsafe [TS]

  and it's gonna kill millions of people [TS]

  in southern california if if it gets [TS]

  built and and the the corporation [TS]

  doesn't want anybody to know this and so [TS]

  then people are rubbed out by evil you [TS]

  know security guys who work for the CEO [TS]

  and the chairman of the board and and [TS]

  and she's you know her dad was a cop and [TS]

  he died but he saved other cops before [TS]

  he got shot in the eye and mean it felt [TS]

  almost I don't know it feels almost [TS]

  Elmore Leonard additional hey was I i [TS]

  love the I love that whole seventies [TS]

  crime not she's not a detective she's an [TS]

  amateur detective reporter type and i [TS]

  love that I love that whole story and [TS]

  they were nice people you meet who then [TS]

  blow up and are killed horribly by [TS]

  murderous assassins and you know as it [TS]

  has good stuff [TS]

  the life of lucasfilm yeah and assassins [TS]

  really if you're going to be an assassin [TS]

  you should be murderous otherwise you [TS]

  shouldn't screw you're not a very good [TS]

  assassin anyway I really that was my [TS]

  favorite dead i like you don't know what [TS]

  you guys thought or if you have other [TS]

  favorite favorite uh bits but that was [TS]

  the one that I like the best night I [TS]

  thought that was a really fun character [TS]

  I felt the reefs Luisa Rey was a the [TS]

  most memorable character in the book for [TS]

  me I like your co-workers to the clearly [TS]

  i can almost picture them with their you [TS]

  know they're brown and orange silk shirt [TS]

  okay and that gigantic afros sideburns [TS]

  out the year is just ahead of the whole [TS]

  thing about nicely seventies vibed and [TS]

  you have the old you know old older guy [TS]

  who makes all sorts of off-color jokes [TS]

  and doesn't believe that this girl can [TS]

  write a story and it turns out in the [TS]

  end that he actually has a lot of [TS]

  respect for her and all you know [TS]

  mhm i was i I just I thought that was [TS]

  great and I like that whole you know [TS]

  that's the the other thing about as you [TS]

  mentioned Jason but the corporation [TS]

  having all this power and you know she's [TS]

  working at this kind of this gossip [TS]

  magazine and she gets this great story [TS]

  and she wants to her editors like well I [TS]

  don't think you should you know right [TS]

  about it because you know cares about [TS]

  nuclear regulations and unless it's [TS]

  going to blow up and they're going to [TS]

  fall out and that'll be good and that's [TS]

  all we'll talk about and he lets her go [TS]

  and you know figure out what's happening [TS]

  because she's plucky i guess and then it [TS]

  turns out that the the they figure out [TS]

  the corporation figures out what's [TS]

  happening and then they buy the magazine [TS]

  so that she can hands publishers to the [TS]

  attic fire her and they and they say [TS]

  will buy the magazine and everybody can [TS]

  stay and keep the jobs except it's for [TS]

  losers say that very subtle blown at all [TS]

  not at all a lot of what i like in that [TS]

  section is how everybody is a [TS]

  backstabber more or less [TS]

  I mean it turns out that every single [TS]

  person except maybe one of the the the [TS]

  the protesters the activists it's is [TS]

  stabbing somebody in the back or getting [TS]

  rich on somebody else and the [TS]

  corporation is not a monolithic evil [TS]

  corporation it's a series of evil people [TS]

  who are all equal to one another as well [TS]

  as to the general public right there [TS]

  just happened to be in the same [TS]

  corporate yeah i mean even by the time [TS]

  the corporation is taken down there's [TS]

  not a whole lot of it left to take down [TS]

  to the upper management has been [TS]

  dispatched by other members of the upper [TS]

  management you generally don't have a [TS]

  lot of stand-up guys in the in the big [TS]

  evil corporation evil nuclear power [TS]

  corporation that's gonna poison all of [TS]

  Southern California mostly they're jerks [TS]

  that's why they don't work out because I [TS]

  just can't be evil people can't work [TS]

  together from our evil plan that's [TS]

  exactly right they see you know they [TS]

  probably would have succeeded had it not [TS]

  been for the Predators preying on the [TS]

  other [TS]

  oh so in some ways I guess that whole [TS]

  prey predator relationship sometimes [TS]

  works out well that's that's excellent [TS]

  you could be an English major to Steve [TS]

  look at that what what goat what story [TS]

  did you like I like the Orson of sonmi [TS]

  40 yeah 451 where there's an obvious [TS]

  reference [TS]

  yeah i just i i really liked the way it [TS]

  sort of gradually unfolded I mean each [TS]

  of each of the story just because of the [TS]

  way they were set up sort of dropping [TS]

  you into whatever world you were in the [TS]

  first maybe 56 pages you you're just [TS]

  trying to get your bearings and figure [TS]

  out what the hell's going on here where [TS]

  are we and i really like the kind of [TS]

  slow way that unfolded with the [TS]

  interview back and forth with the the [TS]

  archivist and you know even though a lot [TS]

  of the sort of classic dystopian tropes [TS]

  were in place they're just the fact that [TS]

  you know you got a little bit at a time [TS]

  you know what are the fabrications what [TS]

  is this soap business and it it got [TS]

  increasingly disturbing farther and you [TS]

  went and at just being fed a little bit [TS]

  at a time it really it it almost felt [TS]

  like a really good horror story where [TS]

  you know that things are getting worse [TS]

  and worse as you go and get your you [TS]

  have to see how it all turns out and [TS]

  then you have to say that I mean [TS]

  obviously the guys writing is is pretty [TS]

  superb throughout I mean just that the [TS]

  john r exercises that he he takes on in [TS]

  each different section and the way he [TS]

  rises is just generally amusing but [TS]

  particularly in that section it's it's [TS]

  kind of amazing you already mentioned [TS]

  the the sony and forward an icon and [TS]

  nike being basically so fundamental that [TS]

  they no longer warrant capitalization [TS]

  yeah a car is afford but there's a lot [TS]

  of other stuff that he you know justjust [TS]

  spelling yeah he says a lot about the [TS]

  nature of this the dystopian that they [TS]

  live in [TS]

  I got for whatever reason they've words [TS]

  that start with B X they just thrown [TS]

  away II know and they seem to have [TS]

  tossed GH out as well and my guess is [TS]

  that just because it's inefficient right [TS]

  right [TS]

  there's really no need for that useless [TS]

  junk yeah [TS]

  although there are there are a few words [TS]

  here and there that maintain the GH so [TS]

  that that's not completely throughout [TS]

  but i just thought that was kind of [TS]

  interesting and then no similar the [TS]

  corporation's losing their their their [TS]

  capitalization they mention aids at one [TS]

  point which has been cured and now it [TS]

  too has lost its ominous capital letters [TS]

  it's just aids all lowercase [TS]

  so I thought that the language in there [TS]

  was particularly interesting as well one [TS]

  of the things that i liked about this [TS]

  that maybe Scott likes to is that seeing [TS]

  somebody who is a literary novelist take [TS]

  these sci-fi tropes take sci-fi stories [TS]

  and embed them in a work like this I [TS]

  feel um legitimizes the genre a little [TS]

  bit it gives gives it it's a it's a [TS]

  talented author saying i can tell a [TS]

  story like this too and he tells a bunch [TS]

  right he's got an apocalypse story and [TS]

  he's got a future story and he's got a [TS]

  past or and he's got a in the seventies [TS]

  detective story but but there's part of [TS]

  a to that i like because it's it's I [TS]

  feel like it's going to expose these [TS]

  concepts to people who might not [TS]

  otherwise be exposed to a story like [TS]

  this and the Sonny story is a really he [TS]

  did a good job yeah I didn't feel like [TS]

  it was a you know you know mainstream [TS]

  models she doesn't really understand [TS]

  sci-fi but decided to try their hand at [TS]

  it to class it up a little bit doesn't [TS]

  feel like that at all to me it feels [TS]

  like he you know he he knows what kind [TS]

  of story you want to tell him that [TS]

  Shauna and he does a good job of it so [TS]

  you know I like that too and he clearly [TS]

  doesn't care that he's recycling Logan's [TS]

  Run and soybean and any number of other [TS]

  no I you know existing stories recycling [TS]

  Soylent Green oh the irony [TS]

  so in green is a movie about people i [TS]

  also like that he does go into any real [TS]

  detail about what happened to the dead [TS]

  zones outside of Korea but that that all [TS]

  apparently needs that needs to be said [TS]

  about our sorry continent is he makes a [TS]

  fleeting reference to boardman meth eyes [TS]

  American boatpeople solution yes [TS]

  you can only imagine what that is it you [TS]

  can't possibly be good but it's just [TS]

  kinda funny where we are now both people [TS]

  hope you die [TS]

  presumably we have the few remaining [TS]

  survivors landed in Korea and presumably [TS]

  dispatched yes [TS]

  yeah it's never never good when your [TS]

  book person [TS]

  yeah I I enjoyed that nitrogen as you're [TS]

  talking about the science-fiction [TS]

  elements of this as i was reading this [TS]

  book i was thinking you know this book [TS]

  is really even though all the stories [TS]

  are not set in the future it is a [TS]

  science fiction book because he's using [TS]

  these themes and weaving together these [TS]

  characters in this character just keeps [TS]

  coming back and back and these are as [TS]

  clear science fiction theme yes I and [TS]

  the publisher would never market this [TS]

  book as a science fiction book because [TS]

  it is too literary for that they don't [TS]

  want to that's currently being made into [TS]

  a major motion picture with Tom Hanks so [TS]

  yeah not science fiction but with [TS]

  bicycle shops keys right who are exactly [TS]

  moves on her directories so exactly [TS]

  movies are very different than then [TS]

  books and you know the marketing of the [TS]

  two else is a mainstream movie genre [TS]

  everybody watches sci-fi movies but not [TS]

  everybody reads sci-fi novels right and [TS]

  if you mark this a sci-fi unless you're [TS]

  you know even actually somebody like [TS]

  Michael Chabon i mean he he he he won [TS]

  the Pulitzer Prize right but it has [TS]

  written many John robotics but even then [TS]

  it's like what some people are like [TS]

  what's wrong with you Michael why are [TS]

  you not writing you writing silly things [TS]

  about you know monsters and superheroes [TS]

  and things and well that's what he wants [TS]

  to write about so so they this is one of [TS]

  the secrets I don't tell anybody it's [TS]

  sci-fi kind of that was actually a [TS]

  really a complimentary quote from shape [TS]

  on the back of this but yes telling [TS]

  isn't it [TS]

  thatthat's I I saw that and I hope that [TS]

  was perfect because it is that it's got [TS]

  that kind of feeling he's he's a better [TS]

  writer than David Mitchell but it [TS]

  doesn't that feel it's somebody who's [TS]

  extremely talented as a writer and is [TS]

  going to go ahead and play with sci-fi [TS]

  ideas and doesn't really care if that's [TS]

  going to bother the literary [TS]

  intelligentsia who are they what [TS]

  clones in the future no no we can't have [TS]

  you ever read any other Mitchell besides [TS]

  this I know this is the only mention [TS]

  that i have read III uh it makes me want [TS]

  to read more of his work but I have so [TS]

  many other things and reading if you do [TS]

  get the sense that up and I guess this [TS]

  will be obvious in the in the movie that [TS]

  that there are multiple characters [TS]

  repeating here and the one that made me [TS]

  laugh is that in the the second story i [TS]

  believe there is a there is a doctor who [TS]

  is creepy and we've just seen the creepy [TS]

  guy who's pretending to be a doctor and [TS]

  then very next story there's a dr. Egret [TS]

  who says I've never met a quack who I [TS]

  didn't suspect of plotting to do me and [TS]

  as expensively as he could contrive was [TS]

  like well yeah actually that it just [TS]

  happens [TS]

  I yeah but is that is that actually a [TS]

  recurring character or dismissal just [TS]

  hate doctors [TS]

  uh-huh uh-huh hmm it's a commentary on [TS]

  the night it's you get that you get the [TS]

  little sense that it that but it but [TS]

  it's it's it's a little bit less obvious [TS]

  when when as opposed to in the movie [TS]

  when it's like why it's Halle Berry [TS]

  again haha yeah yeah I the only instance [TS]

  of that I even noticed was where I think [TS]

  it's a bill smoke is about the dispatch [TS]

  Luisa Rey on the on the six minutes boat [TS]

  and out what does he say he said [TS]

  something along the lines of you you [TS]

  always die this noisy what do you what [TS]

  do you mean always or something along [TS]

  those lines together it is this death [TS]

  always make you so verbose ah and Louisa [TS]

  says what do you mean always like [TS]

  there's some significance to that yeah [TS]

  move so it's yeah so presumably bill [TS]

  smoke exists in the other stories as [TS]

  well and some i mean this this reads to [TS]

  me like a book that i would probably get [TS]

  a lot more out of the fight a second [TS]

  time like there's they're probably some [TS]

  bits in the first half of that first [TS]

  chapter that point to a lot of clues [TS]

  here and there that I completely missed [TS]

  on the first time through although i [TS]

  kinda looks like a time man i kinda like [TS]

  that it's it's less it didn't feel part [TS]

  of it didn't feel obvious right i [TS]

  remember becoming shaped birthmark and [TS]

  all that it's very obvious part of it [TS]

  didn't I didn't feel like oh yes now I [TS]

  know who each of our three or four [TS]

  recurring characters in this time frame [TS]

  i didn't have that sense and i was happy [TS]

  I was grateful for that i like the idea [TS]

  that there's some of these people are [TS]

  recurring and that's fine but it he [TS]

  never spell spelled it out at least that [TS]

  I could tell I was grateful I really was [TS]

  that that that would have made my eyes [TS]

  roll back into my head yeah it was the [TS]

  world connected we go through this life [TS]

  together again and again I I didn't I i [TS]

  just did didn't want this book to be [TS]

  that it wasn't that would've been [TS]

  thoroughly that looks sucked it would [TS]

  have been as like you know the character [TS]

  had to live in every story or something [TS]

  I think it's an Aston conceit though if [TS]

  this is a situation that sort of the [TS]

  soul being reincarnated repeatedly that [TS]

  perhaps souls can take a break from [TS]

  actual terrestrial life and live in a [TS]

  book for a while because presumably [TS]

  that's what has happened when Luisa Rey [TS]

  is written by Hillary hush no other [TS]

  particular reason why this character [TS]

  would suddenly yeah birthmark [TS]

  yeah that's true that weird well and and [TS]

  Timothy Cavendish is alive is old enough [TS]

  that he's alive when when Luisa Rey [TS]

  would have been alive but Louis sorry we [TS]

  didn't wasn't real [TS]

  presumably but was just the character in [TS]

  the book well it's not certain that that [TS]

  he is in fact that character because he [TS]

  does he makes mention of having a [TS]

  birthmark yes there's no one no one has [TS]

  ever made notice of it being a comet [TS]

  somebody called Tim bows turd as Chicago [TS]

  but ya never told him look like a comet [TS]

  yeah but that's one that's one of those [TS]

  really nice suggestions that that maybe [TS]

  you know with what we're seeing is the [TS]

  connection that these characters have is [TS]

  that they're in this book together and [TS]

  not necessarily that they're in some [TS]

  fictional world reincarnating into one [TS]

  another because in Cavendish's world [TS]

  Louis raise a character in a book not a [TS]

  person because if she had been a person [TS]

  he would have been alive at the same [TS]

  time that she was alive [TS]

  that's true he would probably remember [TS]

  this Giants can yes about the nuclear [TS]

  power plant exactly people blown up [TS]

  right so that that adds a whole other [TS]

  layer [TS]

  you think about this book be more [TS]

  confusing if he's interested it's true [TS]

  and that's that's that's the problem for [TS]

  me i mean i really liked the individual [TS]

  stories i like the writing i like the [TS]

  cleverness it would have been so much [TS]

  more if there had been some sort of a [TS]

  thread that I could have picked up and [TS]

  you know it's just it's frustrating that [TS]

  there wasn't [TS]

  maybe a bit more of a hint i would [TS]

  probably go back and reread the book if [TS]

  I had enough of an indication that i was [TS]

  just sort of missing something but I [TS]

  felt like when I got to the end and [TS]

  things didn't really add up and there [TS]

  wasn't really any kind of a hint that [TS]

  maybe I was just missing something that [TS]

  now oh well here we go [TS]

  yeah did a little off coast write this [TS]

  thing huh yeah I don't think that he has [TS]

  an author is really interested in kind [TS]

  of and I think this is good is not [TS]

  interested in kind of holding your hand [TS]

  through and kind of spelling out the [TS]

  whole thing there's a difference between [TS]

  holding your hand and just not really [TS]

  having a point well I think he has a ps2 [TS]

  I'm gonna get it is i don't think that [TS]

  there is a strong kind of a way that you [TS]

  can decode whatever it is like there's [TS]

  no hints to some like there's no pivotal [TS]

  scene where it's like a hot it all comes [TS]

  to gaol it all makes sense right now i [TS]

  want to draw me a map but at the same [TS]

  time he's got to do a little of the work [TS]

  in coming up with the story it's not for [TS]

  me to make up the story based on here [TS]

  it'sit's series of vignettes the tie [TS]

  together only marginally I think he [TS]

  wants you to kind of draw all of these [TS]

  connections because he casually mentions [TS]

  similar things in each of the stories [TS]

  and you know it just as you're reading [TS]

  it I think you're just supposed to [TS]

  notice one or you know two of the things [TS]

  and not all of them i imagine unless you [TS]

  read it more than once and just kind of [TS]

  get that kind of general you know [TS]

  everybody's connected kind of thing [TS]

  without him having to be having have to [TS]

  say like jason said like whoa [TS]

  we're all connected yeah we're all [TS]

  clouds in the cloud atlas [TS]

  yeah that's cool man no having if there [TS]

  is something in rock man at the end when [TS]

  Adam Ewing becomes an abolitionist right [TS]

  i mean that this is his moment to say [TS]

  and he sort of does he said he used to [TS]

  say not slavery is bad but to say you [TS]

  know [TS]

  stronger going to press the weekend you [TS]

  need to end and that's bad and you need [TS]

  to do something about it because that's [TS]

  the law of the jungle and this is where [TS]

  this goes is to the complete destruction [TS]

  of society and it's not just about [TS]

  slavery although slavery as part of it [TS]

  but it's about you know what he's saying [TS]

  is it's the this is corporate structure [TS]

  that's out of control in nineteen [TS]

  nineteen seventies and the court bokra [TS]

  see of korea in the 21st century and and [TS]

  you know that's that's sort of one of [TS]

  the things that he's saying here and [TS]

  that's fine I that seems like a fairly [TS]

  straightforward straightforward thing [TS]

  but uh the end I you know in the end i [TS]

  liked it i didn't love it i'm glad i [TS]

  read it because I I i enjoyed the ride [TS]

  of not really knowing what the heck I [TS]

  was gonna get next I'm and my wife my [TS]

  wife said oh how'd you like it my said [TS]

  it was it was it was strange it was a [TS]

  strange book and but you know by I rip [TS]

  through it i read it other than the [TS]

  first chapter then it will speed it up [TS]

  and it was like yeah okay now that now [TS]

  that we're out of Adam Ewing I'm ready [TS]

  to go yeah but the problem with the [TS]

  payoff of you know p be cool to be good [TS]

  to one another [TS]

  don't be 2x yeah exactly is that the [TS]

  world just clouds man we're all clouds [TS]

  in the sky and and even with the clouds [TS]

  evaporate man they come back there yeah [TS]

  well I just didn't think we consider [TS]

  this is a comet [TS]

  yeah so the doctor and the past of this [TS]

  book are already set so even so the the [TS]

  person farthest in the past becomes an [TS]

  abolitionist at the end of the book [TS]

  right but it doesn't change the fact [TS]

  that the future is complete crap anyway [TS]

  and everybody since I just he's just one [TS]

  man or one entity you know he's sickly [TS]

  looking ed I think the point maybe is [TS]

  you know that point we all did that then [TS]

  maybe it would make a difference but if [TS]

  just one dude does then you know we're [TS]

  all screwed [TS]

  I guess that's true [TS]

  so basically screwed it is a message [TS]

  book yeah more or less but i would say [TS]

  that I almost loved the book i came real [TS]

  close i really liked like i said i like [TS]

  this store [TS]

  this store [TS]

  he's loved the writing style and they [TS]

  were occasionally there'd be these [TS]

  little sections where just he would whip [TS]

  out with like two three paragraphs of [TS]

  just really beautiful sentiments that [TS]

  they coming almost out of nowhere and [TS]

  then he would move on to the rest of the [TS]

  story and I thought that was fairly [TS]

  interesting like that whole section [TS]

  where you know the guys on the plane and [TS]

  he comes up with the past in the future [TS]

  and while that is some pretty heavy [TS]

  stuff i SAT there for a while trying to [TS]

  work that out and you know it was it was [TS]

  a fun book to read and i like that a [TS]

  whole lot more before before I got to [TS]

  the end and relax that it wasn't gonna [TS]

  pay off that well but in the end yeah i [TS]

  would say that I a borderline loved it [TS]

  and wish I could say that I i loved it [TS]

  without any reservation but I sadly [TS]

  cannot the journey is its own reward [TS]

  this reservation i'm glad i read it I'm [TS]

  glad I me too and i would i would [TS]

  recommend it to an adventurous reader [TS]

  who somebody who appreciates the you [TS]

  know you'll make the connections and [TS]

  this different stories are interlocked [TS]

  but they're very different genres and [TS]

  somebody who really loves that stuff and [TS]

  I'm not going to recommend my mom read [TS]

  it you know [TS]

  my mom's not that adventurous she's a [TS]

  reader but she's not that is interest [TS]

  but if somebody who loves seeing these [TS]

  kind of books that are about books and [TS]

  that are interconnected and and [TS]

  self-referential and all that that that [TS]

  they would enjoy this book my mom would [TS]

  like to read the with probably enjoy [TS]

  reading Luisa Rey mysteries novels right [TS]

  yeah I wasn't where I want to be honest [TS]

  with you [TS]

  so what I actually but they were pulpy [TS]

  but great fun it was great loved it [TS]

  yep so if you do read the book and you [TS]

  you figure out what the point is [TS]

  please drop us a line I think you [TS]

  already got to be excellent to each [TS]

  other occupied what I can't be it you [TS]

  don't really know again I think it is [TS]

  though I i'm not sure what the point of [TS]

  the book was except that i enjoyed [TS]

  reading it and I thought it was a [TS]

  fantastically constructed and [TS]

  well-written yeah kind of get of jenny [TS]

  and many papers will be written by [TS]

  English students about this it's just I [TS]

  hate that it comes so close to being [TS]

  sublime and even in those last I've got [TS]

  to the second page from the last night [TS]

  was like it's coming it's here and the [TS]

  last few pages i swear i got down to one [TS]

  page was like oh god it's not go because [TS]

  it and it didn't come [TS]

  oh except for the aforementioned Adam [TS]

  Adam Ewing as the focal point of the [TS]

  beginning and end of this book is a [TS]

  major problem i think really i think it [TS]

  it will transmit of a doe a lot of [TS]

  people have yeah well and then and then [TS]

  in the end you don't I mean I I actually [TS]

  feel like it's like frobisher's story is [TS]

  you know I got to the end of that story [TS]

  and then and then back to Adam you like [TS]

  a Adam Ewing you know i just did never [TS]

  yeah i think it's a weakness because [TS]

  that that it because it's in that style [TS]

  which is totally right [TS]

  I it but it's a little bit of a snooze [TS]

  and his big revelation is that he's [TS]

  going to be a an abolitionist and yeah [TS]

  it's not it's it's not the strongest [TS]

  starter or enter and it's funny because [TS]

  i think the beginning and end sections [TS]

  and the dead center sections are not [TS]

  great [TS]

  compared to some of the stuff in the [TS]

  middle I don't know yeah I think that's [TS]

  true i think the the first and last [TS]

  section are good in that they are well [TS]

  written and good kind of mimicking of [TS]

  that style but that the the story itself [TS]

  is not all that component yet to come [TS]

  all that way and end up with Adam you [TS]

  and getting off the boat in Hawaii or [TS]

  San Francisco or wherever he ends up is [TS]

  not i guess it's Hawaii because that's [TS]

  don't you know that story ends in the [TS]

  same place that the story of the NRA [TS]

  world ends so right that's where the [TS]

  freed slave save his life yeah exactly [TS]

  mm but I i am very glad that i read this [TS]

  book before I saw the movie though [TS]

  because I think that's no matter how [TS]

  good the movie is going to be or how bad [TS]

  the movie is going to be I can't help [TS]

  think that it will ruin the book for [TS]

  anyone who read who sees the movie first [TS]

  and then reads the book yeah I think [TS]

  that's I've read some advanced reviews [TS]

  on the movie and they do not speak [TS]

  highly no dear tend to say but I mean [TS]

  honestly what could you do [TS]

  I mean how do you film this this kind of [TS]

  a book [TS]

  totally i think there's the whole thing [TS]

  that I don't I can't take it i do not [TS]

  understand how this kind of book can be [TS]

  turned into a compelling movie so I [TS]

  don't know if I want to even see this [TS]

  movie but I'm more intrigued now just [TS]

  because i read the book and I would kind [TS]

  of like to see how the heck they try to [TS]

  make it into a movie and I refused to [TS]

  even watch the the trailer before [TS]

  finishing no one will be seated in the [TS]

  senior citizens escape the old folks [TS]

  home see ya i was reading that I was [TS]

  thinking this disc this will make a [TS]

  pretty good maybe section [TS]

  yeah there's a whole escape let's get to [TS]

  some ease escape from you know there's [TS]

  there's some stuff but it's going to be [TS]

  at periods of action spread apart by [TS]

  long sections of the book is anything to [TS]

  go by expository [TS]

  so what are they gonna do with that I [TS]

  don't know I'm that's been i'm glad i [TS]

  read the book thanks got it boggles the [TS]

  mind yeah I am glad that i sold my wife [TS]

  told me to read this book like five [TS]

  years ago ignored her recommendation [TS]

  that movie came out if i don't know i [TS]

  gotta get to it before the movie excited [TS]

  i watch the trailer for the movie and I [TS]

  thought this is sounds like it's a [TS]

  really interesting novel that's gonna be [TS]

  an awful movie so I should really read [TS]

  the novel before the movie comes out [TS]

  good idea i'm good idea and i'm glad i'm [TS]

  sad that I only came across this book [TS]

  too late to not have the soon to be a [TS]

  major motion picture on the top of the [TS]

  cover but at least i have avoided tom [TS]

  hanks and Halle Berry peering at me from [TS]

  the windows instead of the lovely cloud [TS]

  pictures that idea is dead [TS]

  that's right I'm play Tom Hanks in the [TS]

  movie tom hanks plays a cloud we all [TS]

  play cloud man oh yeah we're all good [TS]

  you know like I clouds need reading [TS]

  through time and space you know what [TS]

  yeah that's when the mean clouds come in [TS]

  a press the other nice clouds and tell [TS]

  them where to go [TS]

  sometimes we'd rig works and sometimes [TS]

  we drip yeah good times [TS]

  now the times we suck up the ocean [TS]

  alright this has been great scott thank [TS]

  you for that thank you for suggesting [TS]

  this book that nobody read but us [TS]

  well I'm glad that at least you two [TS]

  brave fellows picked up this book and [TS]

  actually finished it because i do think [TS]

  that despite some of its flaws [TS]

  it's a 0 a book that is a rewarding [TS]

  experience to read if you enjoy kind of [TS]

  out-of-the-box reading books [TS]

  yes injury but so far not so far outside [TS]

  of the box that it was difficult to read [TS]

  or irritating to read which is nice yeah [TS]

  yes exactly it's not like a totally [TS]

  experimental story down oh you have no [TS]

  idea what's going on there are very [TS]

  strong plot lines and you can follow [TS]

  them through the mr. om they're all [TS]

  genres right there all recognized by [TS]

  many of these are things that I i feel [TS]

  like i've read this book before or [TS]

  something very much like it and I and I [TS]

  like that so so they're not they're not [TS]

  painful pretentious things are woven [TS]

  together in a pretentious way maybe [TS]

  but they're individually not that and [TS]

  that's like there there's a series of [TS]

  concentric boxes of increasing size and [TS]

  this is actually outside of the first [TS]

  box but it doesn't actually step outside [TS]

  of the second box so it's right in there [TS]

  I see yes they're there are six boxes [TS]

  nested Wow all right on that note I'm [TS]

  going to thank everybody for listening [TS]

  and I'm going to thank Steve let's and [TS]

  Scott McNulty for reading the book yay [TS]

  you read the book [TS]

  yay for us for a i'm glad i did and now [TS]

  I can go back to doing other things and [TS]

  I'm glad you both liked it because I was [TS]

  afraid that no one damn scott magno t [TS]

  why am I reading this but we thought [TS]

  that during the first chapter and then I [TS]

  got over it so I one clan [TS]

  yeah this is a little bit out of what we [TS]

  have been reading for the book club [TS]

  it is and that at msy many of our book [TS]

  club versa bailed on an apparent their [TS]

  extreme left their comfort zone [TS]

  well we know who the strong and the weak [TS]

  are now don't we [TS]

  mhm it turns out the guy that never [TS]

  reads is one of the strong term who saw [TS]

  that coming [TS]

  it's a plot twist to clean comfortable [TS]

  compost of the century irony [TS]

  thanks everybody for listening to the [TS]

  income from podcast until our next book [TS]

  club good Bob [TS]