The Incomparable

108: Journey: Then We Touched, Then We Sang


00:00:00   we could you come free my friends [TS]

00:00:02   [Music] [TS]

00:00:07   the entire horrible Todd test number 108 [TS]

00:00:11   September 2012 [TS]

00:00:16   mmm [TS]

00:00:19   welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:21   I'm your host Jason L and in this [TS]

00:00:23   edition we are not talking about movies [TS]

00:00:26   we are not talking about books we are [TS]

00:00:28   not talking about comics and we're not [TS]

00:00:29   talking about TV shows we are talking [TS]

00:00:32   about video games and in fact this is an [TS]

00:00:37   episode devoted to the video game that [TS]

00:00:40   John siracusa has devoted lots and lots [TS]

00:00:43   of praise to which is a journey a [TS]

00:00:47   journey by that game company released [TS]

00:00:49   march 2012 this very year and John has [TS]

00:00:54   sung the praises of this so much that it [TS]

00:00:56   caused many of us who don't own a [TS]

00:00:57   playstation 3 to go out and get one [TS]

00:01:00   borrow it from a friend make new friends [TS]

00:01:04   in order to our other playstation 3 and [TS]

00:01:07   play this game so that John would you be [TS]

00:01:09   able to do a podcast about it without [TS]

00:01:11   being all by himself so joining me as [TS]

00:01:16   you might expect is John siracusa who [TS]

00:01:19   made this whole thing happened John [TS]

00:01:21   thanks for being here it's really about [TS]

00:01:23   bringing people together basically it is [TS]

00:01:25   in fact I believe three of our guests [TS]

00:01:27   perhaps played this game together [TS]

00:01:28   yesterday [TS]

00:01:30   now they were supposed to play it alone [TS]

00:01:32   it's just about the trading the [TS]

00:01:33   PlayStation instructions are complicated [TS]

00:01:36   I understand about bringing people [TS]

00:01:37   together but all all alone at first will [TS]

00:01:39   you bring them together and then place [TS]

00:01:41   them in isolation booth until it's their [TS]

00:01:43   turn to play the game exactly so the the [TS]

00:01:46   three people I I reference there Dan [TS]

00:01:48   Morin and play this game I believe [TS]

00:01:50   yesterday is that right down [TS]

00:01:51   streetlights people living just to find [TS]

00:01:55   emotion [TS]

00:01:56   yeah Andy yeah i played this game is it [TS]

00:01:59   just yesterday it seems like yesterday [TS]

00:02:01   it was just yesterday it was to say was [TS]

00:02:04   in it was in one of our other panelists [TS]

00:02:05   living room I just SAT there quietly [TS]

00:02:06   funny because it's true and so which is [TS]

00:02:11   it so Tony sindelar is also here who's [TS]

00:02:14   been on several of our podcast hi Tony [TS]

00:02:16   you played this game with dan despite [TS]

00:02:18   John Syracuse's I did not I i do what [TS]

00:02:21   John syracuse that tells me to do you [TS]

00:02:23   played it separately [TS]

00:02:24   I did we all mainly because Jason who [TS]

00:02:26   you will introduce the 2nd had already [TS]

00:02:27   hosted one person in his living room [TS]

00:02:29   yesterday the pleasure neon [TS]

00:02:31   and rather than having a revolving door [TS]

00:02:33   of people playing it in his living room [TS]

00:02:35   while he sat in the corner hoping that [TS]

00:02:37   people would leave i took his [TS]

00:02:38   playstation from his house and brought [TS]

00:02:40   it to my house where it still is and i [TS]

00:02:42   played it by myself and miss it [TS]

00:02:48   it'll come back someday that other [TS]

00:02:51   person you heard there his name rhymes [TS]

00:02:52   with Bochy it's jason tachi hi hi you [TS]

00:02:55   played you are the owner of the [TS]

00:02:56   playstation in question are you not it's [TS]

00:02:59   true was was being the operative work [TS]

00:03:01   was was it sold wasn't destroyed [TS]

00:03:04   possessions nine-tenths of the law man [TS]

00:03:06   Tony's got it now Tony's got it Wow uh [TS]

00:03:08   and also here with us is somebody who [TS]

00:03:12   wasn't part of the big journey party [TS]

00:03:15   yesterday apparently which is a great [TS]

00:03:17   Steve lots hi Steve a Jason now you're [TS]

00:03:20   right I I I was not involved in the the [TS]

00:03:23   big journey in I i was alone i never [TS]

00:03:27   knew what good luck could do frankly [TS]

00:03:28   that's good the wheel in the sky keeps [TS]

00:03:30   on turning that's true so and i played [TS]

00:03:35   this game i will say i also defied the [TS]

00:03:37   siracusa rules and my wife and i played [TS]

00:03:40   this game together because i believe [TS]

00:03:44   marriages are strengthened by games of [TS]

00:03:46   journey and uh and we had a good time in [TS]

00:03:50   this game this game is actually very [TS]

00:03:51   much in the genre video games that she [TS]

00:03:53   likes so so we know open a bottle of [TS]

00:03:57   wine and played some journey and [TS]

00:04:00   everybody had a good time so I John do [TS]

00:04:03   were the instigator of this entire thing [TS]

00:04:05   so I wonder if perhaps you have some [TS]

00:04:06   opening thoughts about this this game [TS]

00:04:08   before we begin to discuss it [TS]

00:04:11   my first opening thought which I'm [TS]

00:04:13   surprised you had slipped by is that if [TS]

00:04:16   you've not played this game and you like [TS]

00:04:18   video games at all or I've ever seen a [TS]

00:04:20   video game or think you might like [TS]

00:04:22   playing a video game in sometime in the [TS]

00:04:24   future in your life and can gain access [TS]

00:04:26   to a playstation 3 some pears off [TS]

00:04:28   listening to this podcast now do not [TS]

00:04:31   listen to this podcast because we're [TS]

00:04:32   going to ruin the game for you and this [TS]

00:04:34   is definitely one of those games where [TS]

00:04:38   I was telling you about it will take [TS]

00:04:39   away from the enjoyment this podcast is [TS]

00:04:41   isn't going anywhere just stopped [TS]

00:04:43   listening now set it aside leave it in [TS]

00:04:45   your iTunes library don't market is [TS]

00:04:47   played [TS]

00:04:47   you can come back and listen to it some [TS]

00:04:49   days I'm never gonna get a playstation [TS]

00:04:50   3i hate sony Sony killed my family [TS]

00:04:52   someday you'll be able to play this game [TS]

00:04:55   in some form on some future system and [TS]

00:04:58   you will forgive sony for killing your [TS]

00:05:00   think that's right out you get up there [TS]

00:05:01   are you instructed me to fire off the [TS]

00:05:03   spoiler horn [TS]

00:05:07   yes it should be the biggest spoiler [TS]

00:05:10   horn ever because i think i think and no [TS]

00:05:12   other thing that has been discussed is [TS]

00:05:14   except for perhaps some projects back if [TS]

00:05:16   you don't know that I know that Darth [TS]

00:05:18   Vader's Darth Vader's looks like whoa [TS]

00:05:20   whoa didn't know that yes we really were [TS]

00:05:22   in that for you [TS]

00:05:23   i I'm sorry I I don't know where you're [TS]

00:05:25   getting that because I i play the game [TS]

00:05:26   having read multiple reviews and I knew [TS]

00:05:29   virtually everything about the game [TS]

00:05:31   apart from you know that the minutiae of [TS]

00:05:34   it and I still managed to enjoy it [TS]

00:05:36   thoroughly and I don't really think i [TS]

00:05:38   saw anything it will still be good game [TS]

00:05:40   I i don't think i found anything that I [TS]

00:05:42   would have been out that I was [TS]

00:05:43   disappointed that I knew about in [TS]

00:05:45   advance I will elaborate on why I think [TS]

00:05:48   that is not to say this will not be a [TS]

00:05:49   fun game maybe if you know everything [TS]

00:05:51   about it but I just think it has the [TS]

00:05:53   chance to be much better so yes please [TS]

00:05:55   fire the big gigantic spoiler horn [TS]

00:05:57   [Music] [TS]

00:06:00   the spoiler horn the biggest boiler horn [TS]

00:06:04   in the universe has been fired so so [TS]

00:06:07   John now that we've cleared out the room [TS]

00:06:09   the spoiler horn has rendered everyone [TS]

00:06:11   did completely deaf in fact I how would [TS]

00:06:15   you like to proceed from here this is [TS]

00:06:17   your show basically as far as I'm [TS]

00:06:18   concerned I'm just here to move things [TS]

00:06:20   along and non-stop to frame this my [TS]

00:06:22   opening comments for this and a lot of [TS]

00:06:24   the other games that I really like and [TS]

00:06:25   tell people that they should play is [TS]

00:06:27   these games that I like so much and i [TS]

00:06:31   recommend everybody i always get the [TS]

00:06:33   feeling that to like these kind of games [TS]

00:06:36   you have to have been sort of brought up [TS]

00:06:39   in a in a gaming culture that there is [TS]

00:06:41   there's some background that you need to [TS]

00:06:45   to fully appreciate and enjoy these [TS]

00:06:47   games and it's always struck me as kind [TS]

00:06:50   of a shame because I wish other people [TS]

00:06:54   could experience these games the same [TS]

00:06:56   way I do and that i talked a lot about [TS]

00:06:59   this on on hypercritical couple episodes [TS]

00:07:01   back there's two parts of this one was [TS]

00:07:02   the skill component of being able to [TS]

00:07:05   just move the little dude on the screen [TS]

00:07:06   and we've all seen people who can't do [TS]

00:07:09   that at all i don't think there are any [TS]

00:07:10   on-the-spot guess but they're out there [TS]

00:07:12   so many people who just can't get past [TS]

00:07:13   that and that they're completely [TS]

00:07:14   prevented from enjoying these games [TS]

00:07:15   because of the skill but i'm not even [TS]

00:07:17   talking about that perception we all [TS]

00:07:18   have enough skill to you know move the [TS]

00:07:20   little guy around on the screen and [TS]

00:07:21   we're doing the second part is if you're [TS]

00:07:23   not steeped in gaming culture there are [TS]

00:07:26   gaming conventions and things about the [TS]

00:07:30   experience that the Gamemakers hope that [TS]

00:07:32   you did that you don't have to explain [TS]

00:07:35   to you that are going to be new and you [TS]

00:07:37   can appreciate the finer points and not [TS]

00:07:40   get bogged down with the basic stuff I [TS]

00:07:42   some it's it's different than something [TS]

00:07:45   like a movie where we feel like we can [TS]

00:07:48   bring everybody along but I that that's [TS]

00:07:50   one of the things about all these these [TS]

00:07:51   games that i really love that [TS]

00:07:52   disappoints me because i always get the [TS]

00:07:56   feeling that someone out there is [TS]

00:07:57   playing this game but they're not [TS]

00:07:59   playing the same game as I am because [TS]

00:08:01   all those sort of base foundational [TS]

00:08:03   things that come from you know thirties [TS]

00:08:05   plus years of playing video games aren't [TS]

00:08:07   there and that's what they're playing [TS]

00:08:09   and then I'm playing the thing above [TS]

00:08:11   that so journey fella him i got to me [TS]

00:08:12   but I also think that [TS]

00:08:13   it's enjoyable at every possible level [TS]

00:08:15   so i'm very interested in hearing [TS]

00:08:16   everybody's experience playing the game [TS]

00:08:19   and at what level they felt like they [TS]

00:08:21   were playing the game like what what [TS]

00:08:23   aspects of the game did they find most [TS]

00:08:25   enjoyable are interesting and which [TS]

00:08:27   aspects were either above or beneath [TS]

00:08:30   their recognition [TS]

00:08:32   I'll jump in and say that it was an [TS]

00:08:35   interesting experience for me coming [TS]

00:08:36   from someone who plays a decent number [TS]

00:08:39   of video games even on a console and so [TS]

00:08:44   in terms of like coming from a certain [TS]

00:08:46   type of background where for example i [TS]

00:08:48   play a lot of games where it's like oh [TS]

00:08:49   man I want to go through and like do [TS]

00:08:52   everything that's possible and collect [TS]

00:08:55   all the things that I'm supposed to [TS]

00:08:56   collect and there's a certain sort of [TS]

00:08:59   compulsion sometimes two games like that [TS]

00:09:01   for me that have a collector aspect and [TS]

00:09:04   there were times where I wondered at [TS]

00:09:07   home and I want to find like missing [TS]

00:09:08   something you know like just I haven't [TS]

00:09:10   explored something that I could have [TS]

00:09:12   explored but after a certain point I got [TS]

00:09:15   beyond that to a point where it's just [TS]

00:09:17   like I just wanted to get you know I [TS]

00:09:19   wanted to keep going and that was more [TS]

00:09:21   important to me than stopping and [TS]

00:09:23   finding every little secret or or nook [TS]

00:09:26   and cranny that I could possibly explore [TS]

00:09:28   but i did spend a really long time in [TS]

00:09:30   that first sort of environment that you [TS]

00:09:32   visit because it took me awhile to [TS]

00:09:34   figure out exactly what I was supposed [TS]

00:09:36   to do and you know like i said i played [TS]

00:09:40   this number of video games and like [TS]

00:09:41   johns talking about there's a shared [TS]

00:09:43   language in a series of strokes or what [TS]

00:09:45   have you that that you can sort of tap [TS]

00:09:48   into and figure out what I'm supposed to [TS]

00:09:51   do any given game right because I know [TS]

00:09:53   what buttons i'm supposed to press and I [TS]

00:09:55   you know how I'm supposed to interact [TS]

00:09:57   certain things and accuse they're going [TS]

00:09:58   to point me in certain directions in to [TS]

00:10:00   a certain extent it was interesting also [TS]

00:10:01   to play on a system that i'm not very [TS]

00:10:04   familiar with because it did remove some [TS]

00:10:06   of the standard language that i have for [TS]

00:10:09   all you know if I'm playing a game on my [TS]

00:10:11   xbox I know roughly like okay the [TS]

00:10:13   triggers going to do these kinds of [TS]

00:10:14   things that joysticks are going to do [TS]

00:10:16   these kind of things and so you [TS]

00:10:17   obviously the PlayStation is very [TS]

00:10:18   similar but it was just slightly [TS]

00:10:19   different off at times I was like why [TS]

00:10:20   you know gotta figure out how do i can [TS]

00:10:22   tilt this controller to change the [TS]

00:10:24   camera angle and stuff like that so it [TS]

00:10:25   was it was an interesting departure in [TS]

00:10:27   some way [TS]

00:10:27   is for many of the games that you play I [TS]

00:10:29   think it was interesting that the game [TS]

00:10:30   is sort of designed to be accessible to [TS]

00:10:34   people who might not play a lot of games [TS]

00:10:38   but also it gave a sort of familiar way [TS]

00:10:42   of interacting with it if you are [TS]

00:10:43   familiar with games now when i first [TS]

00:10:45   started playing it and you stand up in [TS]

00:10:47   the desert there at the beginning and [TS]

00:10:49   you can it tells you all use this button [TS]

00:10:52   to move around and tilt the controller [TS]

00:10:54   to look around and I thought to myself [TS]

00:10:56   oh man i really wish they would just let [TS]

00:10:58   me use the right thumbstick to move [TS]

00:10:59   around that's what I'm used to it using [TS]

00:11:00   a move my camera around and then I find [TS]

00:11:02   that I could do that and so that's what [TS]

00:11:04   i use basically for the rest of the game [TS]

00:11:05   because you can do a lot faster and I'm [TS]

00:11:08   used to controlling a camera really [TS]

00:11:09   quickly and games like that when i gave [TS]

00:11:13   the game to my fiance to try out who [TS]

00:11:16   does not play a lot of games and really [TS]

00:11:19   find it very off-putting which has to [TS]

00:11:20   control the camera with the thumbstick [TS]

00:11:22   she found it very natural to tilt the [TS]

00:11:24   controller just slightly to move the [TS]

00:11:27   camera around and stuck to that for the [TS]

00:11:30   entire time that she played was telling [TS]

00:11:31   me afterward about how much she [TS]

00:11:33   appreciated that she could move it like [TS]

00:11:34   that because it's not as fast and it [TS]

00:11:37   gives you a chance to actually feel like [TS]

00:11:39   you're just looking around a leisurely [TS]

00:11:41   kind of pace and and it's that kind of [TS]

00:11:43   game or it gives you room to move and [TS]

00:11:45   space to kind of decide what you're [TS]

00:11:47   going to do next without necessarily [TS]

00:11:48   always being a fast-acting like oh my [TS]

00:11:51   gosh something's gonna kill you right [TS]

00:11:52   now kind of game [TS]

00:11:54   I actually felt like they were kind of a [TS]

00:11:55   lot of video game convention that kind [TS]

00:11:57   of had to unlearn what you know part of [TS]

00:12:00   that for example is so many of the [TS]

00:12:01   buttons that do the same thing right [TS]

00:12:02   like their multiple buttons that will [TS]

00:12:04   let you jump and things like that [TS]

00:12:05   the idea that each button doesn't have [TS]

00:12:07   some unique thing to do and I almost [TS]

00:12:09   felt like I was kind of progressing [TS]

00:12:10   through things there at the same similar [TS]

00:12:12   experience to Dan were you know I I had [TS]

00:12:14   to kind of give up that compulsion to be [TS]

00:12:16   like there's a shiny thing in the [TS]

00:12:17   distance I should go find that all right [TS]

00:12:18   i need to look at every corner of the [TS]

00:12:20   level to find the shiny things I can't [TS]

00:12:22   see my kind of at a certain point was [TS]

00:12:23   just like I just kind of want to i want [TS]

00:12:24   to see what's next [TS]

00:12:26   and that's more interesting to me than [TS]

00:12:27   finding every object in the level [TS]

00:12:29   um but I also think it kind of forced me [TS]

00:12:31   to look at it a little bit differently i [TS]

00:12:32   mean when i first saw this I thought [TS]

00:12:34   like all I'm going to be like pushing [TS]

00:12:36   blocks all around and solving puzzles [TS]

00:12:38   and things like that it was [TS]

00:12:39   you know that there's a lot that it's [TS]

00:12:41   very stripped down it's not like other [TS]

00:12:43   games where you know I'm gonna have to [TS]

00:12:44   navigate an environment and kind of [TS]

00:12:47   control in in a more complex way I guess [TS]

00:12:49   that was perhaps what I was expecting [TS]

00:12:50   going into it was that I was gonna have [TS]

00:12:51   to do lots of kind of like lock shifting [TS]

00:12:54   and puzzle-solving and things like that [TS]

00:12:55   that was the point I should have made in [TS]

00:12:56   the intro is that part of the having [TS]

00:12:59   this this cultural background of [TS]

00:13:01   conventions these games that i love so [TS]

00:13:03   much [TS]

00:13:04   it's partially because they play against [TS]

00:13:06   those conventions if you don't know what [TS]

00:13:08   those conventions are something playing [TS]

00:13:09   against them is not as interesting as [TS]

00:13:11   you do know there are so it's a great [TS]

00:13:14   examples ego which plays against like [TS]

00:13:16   every convention you could possibly [TS]

00:13:16   imagine in terms of the game interface [TS]

00:13:18   journey is closed [TS]

00:13:20   one of the things that that eco does [TS]

00:13:22   it's very unique the journey sort of [TS]

00:13:24   does is it decides that pretty much [TS]

00:13:27   everything is in the game world so if [TS]

00:13:29   you think about a game like that and [TS]

00:13:30   like diablo or something or real-time [TS]

00:13:33   strategy game our first person shooter [TS]

00:13:34   or even something like Zelda armario [TS]

00:13:36   like for example you hit when you hit an [TS]

00:13:38   enemy like the part that you hit glows [TS]

00:13:40   red to show the year you have damaged [TS]

00:13:42   when you put your cursor over something [TS]

00:13:43   in the elbow they get an outline to show [TS]

00:13:44   that they're highlighted right that's [TS]

00:13:46   the interface to the game telling you [TS]

00:13:47   highlighted this person this thing has [TS]

00:13:49   this much health less because health bar [TS]

00:13:51   on it or you know or did you know here [TS]

00:13:53   is an item you can pick up this is this [TS]

00:13:55   coin is worth five the number 50 p [TS]

00:13:56   robert wright in eco everything is in [TS]

00:13:59   the game world so if nothing in real [TS]

00:14:01   life would glow with the red outline [TS]

00:14:03   nothing in the game close with the red [TS]

00:14:04   outline journey walks a fine line [TS]

00:14:07   because it pretty much does the same [TS]

00:14:08   thing but it does do like the overlay to [TS]

00:14:11   show hey you can tell your controller [TS]

00:14:12   hey move the stick or whatever very [TS]

00:14:14   limited in the beginning and it does [TS]

00:14:15   have things that glow but it's my [TS]

00:14:17   impression that they're really glowing [TS]

00:14:19   in the game world and that's not [TS]

00:14:21   interesting to you if you don't know [TS]

00:14:22   that the convention is always have some [TS]

00:14:23   sort of user interface or a HUD or [TS]

00:14:25   things that light up you know and then [TS]

00:14:27   the perfect example of that was well i'm [TS]

00:14:29   wandering wandering around that first [TS]

00:14:31   environment which is kinda like that [TS]

00:14:33   sunken crater temple ruins etc I always [TS]

00:14:37   like trying to figure out where to go [TS]

00:14:38   and so I'm like walking and climbing up [TS]

00:14:39   the sides of this little like crater and [TS]

00:14:43   at one point I got all the way to the [TS]

00:14:44   top and some place and was clearly some [TS]

00:14:46   place I was not supposed to go and so [TS]

00:14:49   when you get to sort of what you know [TS]

00:14:50   what we all think of as the edge of the [TS]

00:14:52   map right instead of just being like you [TS]

00:14:55   hit an invisible wall and can't go [TS]

00:14:56   anywhere if you try to press further [TS]

00:14:59   there are winds that just blow you back [TS]

00:15:01   in your characters like trying to push [TS]

00:15:02   into the wind and I thought that was [TS]

00:15:03   just a subtle point that was well done [TS]

00:15:05   because it did give me the queue of oh I [TS]

00:15:08   am clearly not supposed to go that way [TS]

00:15:09   he climb climb enough far enough up the [TS]

00:15:12   hillside the wind blows you and you fall [TS]

00:15:14   you slide down the hillside and go all [TS]

00:15:16   right let's try something else i'd be [TS]

00:15:18   curious how many people who weren't [TS]

00:15:20   gamers would push against that win for [TS]

00:15:21   half an hour before realizing that i was [TS]

00:15:23   nothing is lost and that's another thing [TS]

00:15:25   if if you're a gamer you get the idea [TS]

00:15:27   pretty quickly oh I shouldn't go this [TS]

00:15:29   way if you're not a game you may spend [TS]

00:15:30   some time there but that actually brings [TS]

00:15:31   up these links that i just gave Jason [TS]

00:15:33   before the show of 22 episodes of extra [TS]

00:15:35   credits which is a video game video [TS]

00:15:38   series that was on the web is now part [TS]

00:15:40   of Penny Arcade early stay out they host [TS]

00:15:42   it and they have a 22 episodes season 4 [TS]

00:15:45   episode 20 and 21 that show how journey [TS]

00:15:48   conforms to the hero's journey thing I [TS]

00:15:51   don't want to go over this is there good [TS]

00:15:52   videos just watch yourself with this one [TS]

00:15:53   particular aspect is a it's joseph [TS]

00:15:55   campbell right the hero's journey yeah [TS]

00:15:57   and one I figure with the steps are but [TS]

00:15:59   one of the steps is a wasn't rejecting [TS]

00:16:02   the call or something like that where [TS]

00:16:04   the hero says no i don't i don't want [TS]

00:16:06   this you're ignoring the color something [TS]

00:16:08   that take this cup away from me or [TS]

00:16:10   whatever I and the in the videos they [TS]

00:16:12   say you know we thought to make that was [TS]

00:16:14   a step that journey left out because at [TS]

00:16:15   no point does the player reject the call [TS]

00:16:17   to go in the hero's journey you're [TS]

00:16:19   always in the game right so I guess [TS]

00:16:20   during doesn't have that part of the [TS]

00:16:21   hero's journey but actually it does and [TS]

00:16:23   the the rejecting the call and I'm [TS]

00:16:25   getting the words wrong here is when you [TS]

00:16:27   go somewhere that you're not supposed to [TS]

00:16:28   go you go to the edge of the map you say [TS]

00:16:30   I wonder what's over here and you say [TS]

00:16:32   but you know I don't want to go where [TS]

00:16:34   the game wants me to go because it's not [TS]

00:16:35   glaringly obvious i want to see what's [TS]

00:16:37   over here and you are rejecting the call [TS]

00:16:38   of the game to go on this journey like [TS]

00:16:40   no actually I just want to go see what's [TS]

00:16:42   over here it looks like it might be neat [TS]

00:16:43   and the winds blow you back [TS]

00:16:44   yeah i thought the talking about being a [TS]

00:16:49   gamer versus a non-gamer for me as [TS]

00:16:51   somebody who has had various consoles [TS]

00:16:54   over the years but is not even remotely [TS]

00:16:56   a hardcore gamer I felt like [TS]

00:17:01   this uh I knew enough that it all came [TS]

00:17:05   back to me you know i played what like [TS]

00:17:07   Tomb Raider and things like that and it [TS]

00:17:09   I the muscle memory was still there at [TS]

00:17:12   that level that it was a really basic [TS]

00:17:14   you know from five or ten years ago [TS]

00:17:15   memory of I know how to get around and I [TS]

00:17:18   gotta move the camera and that was [TS]

00:17:21   enough for me it was i I wasn't confused [TS]

00:17:23   about like what happens i press a button [TS]

00:17:26   here and somebody on the screen moves I [TS]

00:17:27   mean I understood that part of it but it [TS]

00:17:29   had been a long time since I played a [TS]

00:17:30   game like this and it was i was able to [TS]

00:17:33   figure it out very quickly and then [TS]

00:17:34   become just engrossed in the in the [TS]

00:17:37   story as we go and it is a very gentle [TS]

00:17:40   game in the sense of of entering you [TS]

00:17:43   into this world and having you figure [TS]

00:17:45   out what what you're supposed to be [TS]

00:17:48   doing in fact it's you can see how [TS]

00:17:49   carefully the the game designers have [TS]

00:17:53   set this up so that you are kind of led [TS]

00:17:56   by the hand at the beginning and and [TS]

00:17:58   given a very gentle introduction to how [TS]

00:18:00   this game works [TS]

00:18:02   yeah and I mean there are plenty of [TS]

00:18:03   other things in there that sort of [TS]

00:18:04   defies that same you know vocabulary [TS]

00:18:08   that many of us get adjusted to UM and I [TS]

00:18:11   don't know I'm kind of curious in some [TS]

00:18:13   ways so Jason Tasi tachi we're going to [TS]

00:18:15   announce today you were you are watching [TS]

00:18:17   me for on and off for some of that [TS]

00:18:19   portion because i know you're sitting in [TS]

00:18:21   the room doing some work but you would [TS]

00:18:22   glance up every time the end and I have [TS]

00:18:24   you know that does change the experience [TS]

00:18:25   I think John's right because I [TS]

00:18:26   definitely felt like you know i'm [TS]

00:18:27   staring at the screen watching you [TS]

00:18:29   watching like my god you think I'm an [TS]

00:18:30   idiot comes my fortune 10 minutes but [TS]

00:18:34   like how well I did spend a really long [TS]

00:18:36   time wandering around that first section [TS]

00:18:38   because I thought I had figured out [TS]

00:18:39   where to go and then I couldn't figure [TS]

00:18:41   out what to do with when I got to that [TS]

00:18:43   platform was sort of the first little [TS]

00:18:44   out monument that you reach and it's [TS]

00:18:48   like IRL there's a thing here and it [TS]

00:18:49   seems like this is where I should go but [TS]

00:18:51   nothing seems to happen when I get here [TS]

00:18:52   so maybe I should spend more time [TS]

00:18:53   exploring and so I wandered around for [TS]

00:18:56   you know another 10 minutes before i [TS]

00:18:57   went finally decided alright i guess [TS]

00:18:59   that's where i was supposed to be let me [TS]

00:19:00   figure out what the hell is what to do [TS]

00:19:01   when I got there [TS]

00:19:03   yeah well I was watching you but not [TS]

00:19:04   like in a creepy way or anything um gift [TS]

00:19:07   I what I was struck by actually was in [TS]

00:19:08   that first area while I saw you [TS]

00:19:11   wandering around I was just like man he [TS]

00:19:12   is just so much more thorough than I was [TS]

00:19:16   not spend enough time looking around his [TS]

00:19:19   guide for hundreds and completion yeah [TS]

00:19:21   yeah I was like oh man I you know I and [TS]

00:19:24   it was funny too because I had already [TS]

00:19:25   finished the game at that point and so [TS]

00:19:27   I'm looking around at the at the first [TS]

00:19:29   zone there with a new sense of [TS]

00:19:30   appreciation of things I didn't [TS]

00:19:31   understand before like this little lit [TS]

00:19:33   up blocks and one part and you're [TS]

00:19:35   looking at Dan playing I realized oh [TS]

00:19:37   those are for to indicate how many [TS]

00:19:39   collectible shiny things you picked up [TS]

00:19:42   during the course of the game right [TS]

00:19:43   because dad already picked up three or [TS]

00:19:44   something like that whereas by have more [TS]

00:19:46   lit up and I realized they indicated [TS]

00:19:47   which levels you pick them up on and [TS]

00:19:49   stuff but mostly I was watching and [TS]

00:19:52   thinking to myself like me did I not [TS]

00:19:53   play it right should I looked around and [TS]

00:19:56   then when I want you playing in later [TS]

00:19:58   levels i was struck by app after you [TS]

00:20:00   made the decision to just press on which [TS]

00:20:02   is I did the exact same thing at a [TS]

00:20:03   certain point was just like not want to [TS]

00:20:04   see how it ends and i'll go back and [TS]

00:20:06   play it again later we pressed on and [TS]

00:20:09   almost the exact same ways including [TS]

00:20:12   there's one level where um hi it's [TS]

00:20:15   another desert level on partway through [TS]

00:20:17   maybe the third one and where you can [TS]

00:20:21   crawl up along the surface eastern edge [TS]

00:20:23   of this giant sand dunes and the wind [TS]

00:20:26   starts blowing engine starts getting [TS]

00:20:27   darker and there's just our off to your [TS]

00:20:29   left and that is not the only way to get [TS]

00:20:31   up to where you're trying to get and I [TS]

00:20:33   know that because somebody else that I [TS]

00:20:35   saw playing went another way entirely [TS]

00:20:38   but dan and I went about it the exact [TS]

00:20:39   same way like pushing against the winds [TS]

00:20:41   trying to go the most difficult way [TS]

00:20:42   possible and I was fascinated with that [TS]

00:20:44   is exactly what i did too did you too [TS]

00:20:47   yes in fact that was the one place where [TS]

00:20:49   is going to confused by the wind because [TS]

00:20:50   like I could see the tower and clearly i [TS]

00:20:53   can I have to go like all the way to my [TS]

00:20:54   left but I'm like I'm just trying to go [TS]

00:20:55   right at the tower and the wind won't [TS]

00:20:57   let you do that night you know I'm like [TS]

00:20:59   like trying to like I'm trying to beat [TS]

00:21:01   it like it's actually win like I'm [TS]

00:21:02   zigzagging to like and pressed against [TS]

00:21:04   that is different like four minutes like [TS]

00:21:07   trying to try to push thru invisible [TS]

00:21:08   wall is a good point i think to bring up [TS]

00:21:11   the other aspect of the game which is [TS]

00:21:13   how many i know i never talk about but I [TS]

00:21:15   was saying play alone like as if you're [TS]

00:21:17   sitting in a room by yourself holding [TS]

00:21:18   control over how many of you play the [TS]

00:21:20   game [TS]

00:21:20   alone in the game world versus with [TS]

00:21:22   another character and how many of you [TS]

00:21:25   knew that those other characters were [TS]

00:21:27   other people sitting in their living [TS]

00:21:28   rooms or thought they were computer [TS]

00:21:29   players [TS]

00:21:30   well that was one thing i got spoiled [TS]

00:21:31   for me what you know about that mechanic [TS]

00:21:33   like it was funny because especially [TS]

00:21:35   when I started off the game we had some [TS]

00:21:37   trouble getting the PlayStation account [TS]

00:21:38   to work correctly so I remember starting [TS]

00:21:39   into Jason yes is not connected networks [TS]

00:21:42   that probably goes yeah that's a big [TS]

00:21:43   problem so we had to like back out of [TS]

00:21:44   the game and restart but it was the [TS]

00:21:47   question i had and and I tried to [TS]

00:21:50   address this jason afterwards but we're [TS]

00:21:51   trying to avoid spoilers for other [TS]

00:21:52   people in the room so we didn't get a [TS]

00:21:54   full chance to talk about it was it was [TS]

00:21:56   not clear to me whether it was the same [TS]

00:21:58   person that I was encountering over and [TS]

00:21:59   over again so the sound that they make [TS]

00:22:01   when what when they sing there's a [TS]

00:22:03   symbol [TS]

00:22:04   yes I noted I i noticed that afterwards [TS]

00:22:07   when it when it identifies all of them [TS]

00:22:09   yes so the symbol is who the people are [TS]

00:22:10   right at the end there's the credits and [TS]

00:22:12   it's l0 you paid the journey with and [TS]

00:22:14   and I was spoiled too i knew that there [TS]

00:22:16   was this sort of unique network play [TS]

00:22:18   where they--either they create a way for [TS]

00:22:20   you not to have a twelve-year-old boy [TS]

00:22:22   say second bad tonight instead it's now [TS]

00:22:27   exactly exactly so I had not had a [TS]

00:22:30   spoiled but and I wasn't entirely sure [TS]

00:22:33   what I was seeing and I wasn't sure you [TS]

00:22:36   know where the earliest companion could [TS]

00:22:38   kind of appear I think I wasn't like the [TS]

00:22:39   second level and I suddenly saw this [TS]

00:22:41   little shape dancing in the distance and [TS]

00:22:43   and I didn't really know quite what I [TS]

00:22:44   was experiencing at first I wasn't sure [TS]

00:22:46   if that was you know the way it was [TS]

00:22:47   moving and reacted to me did not seem [TS]

00:22:50   like nai right arm and you know in some [TS]

00:22:54   effort and I wasn't sure and I was like [TS]

00:22:55   trying to test it so i would do the [TS]

00:22:56   thing where I would like sing and [TS]

00:22:58   sometimes it would sing back to me and [TS]

00:22:59   sometimes in wouldn't and it would you [TS]

00:23:01   know sometimes we follow me and [TS]

00:23:02   sometimes it would wander off into its [TS]

00:23:04   own thing and I wasn't really sure [TS]

00:23:06   exactly what I was experiencing in terms [TS]

00:23:08   of like is a person is this live resist [TS]

00:23:10   you know am I seeing like you know a [TS]

00:23:12   recorded session of somebody else or or [TS]

00:23:14   whatnot so i didn't have that ruined for [TS]

00:23:16   me and I wasn't entirely sure at first [TS]

00:23:18   what I was experiencing it was kind of [TS]

00:23:20   immediately obvious to me the way that [TS]

00:23:23   thing was moving that like this was not [TS]

00:23:24   an AI right it's not you know keeping a [TS]

00:23:27   static distance from me it's not [TS]

00:23:29   following some preset path there was [TS]

00:23:31   something about it that felt like [TS]

00:23:33   extremely organic [TS]

00:23:34   alive even though it's just you know a [TS]

00:23:36   bunch of pixels on the screen that like [TS]

00:23:37   I immediately started to question what [TS]

00:23:40   is that you know as opposed to just [TS]

00:23:42   assuming that it was some npc that was [TS]

00:23:44   following me around [TS]

00:23:45   I felt the same way it's a I i played [TS]

00:23:48   with i think four separate guy is my [TS]

00:23:49   first time through the game for girls [TS]

00:23:51   it's really have no idea i had three [TS]

00:23:53   I had eight whoa yeah I ended up with [TS]

00:23:56   eight on this on my second playthrough [TS]

00:23:57   but on the first 1i think it was either [TS]

00:23:58   three or four and it pretty much the [TS]

00:24:01   whole way through I I thought it was the [TS]

00:24:03   same person i think the reason for that [TS]

00:24:05   is because the the actions that you can [TS]

00:24:07   perform are so completely limited and [TS]

00:24:10   you know there's there's only so much a [TS]

00:24:12   person can do to differentiate itself [TS]

00:24:14   from another person and and i think it [TS]

00:24:16   is really interesting playing a [TS]

00:24:18   multiplayer game where because those [TS]

00:24:21   actions are so limited [TS]

00:24:23   there's really no way for another player [TS]

00:24:24   to screw with you so since there's no [TS]

00:24:27   point in being an ahole other players [TS]

00:24:29   just kind of give up on the concept [TS]

00:24:31   because i know some of those people i [TS]

00:24:33   was playing with her probably nine year [TS]

00:24:34   old kids who given the opportunity would [TS]

00:24:36   have you know spirit obscenities at me [TS]

00:24:38   in seconds [TS]

00:24:40   yes and told me to eat it brutally but [TS]

00:24:43   you know because that wasn't even an [TS]

00:24:44   option other players they just seem like [TS]

00:24:46   that the other decide to just sort of [TS]

00:24:48   amuse themselves by jumping around or [TS]

00:24:50   are there actually actively helpful [TS]

00:24:52   which is another strange experience in a [TS]

00:24:54   multiplayer game having only played at [TS]

00:24:56   once i also wasn't sure when I was [TS]

00:24:57   experiencing you know because there were [TS]

00:24:59   lots of times when there wasn't a person [TS]

00:25:00   there i think either there wasn't a [TS]

00:25:02   companion on the level or they were way [TS]

00:25:04   ahead of winter way behind me and I [TS]

00:25:06   wasn't sure in terms of I was basically [TS]

00:25:08   not sure in terms of what I was [TS]

00:25:09   experiencing like am I supposed to be at [TS]

00:25:11   this place alone because there are parts [TS]

00:25:13   of the game more like you feel extremely [TS]

00:25:15   alone and I wasn't sure that was by [TS]

00:25:17   design or they're just happen to not be [TS]

00:25:19   a companion there i'm thinking [TS]

00:25:21   especially at the kind of toward the end [TS]

00:25:22   when I'm climbing up through the snow [TS]

00:25:25   I was you know I had not seen a [TS]

00:25:26   companion probably a half-hour at that [TS]

00:25:28   point I had I had a companion when you [TS]

00:25:30   had a companion with you that would have [TS]

00:25:31   been a very different experience I felt [TS]

00:25:33   like I lost mine towards the end about [TS]

00:25:35   like the third level from the end and i [TS]

00:25:37   actually was was terribly sad i kept [TS]

00:25:41   turning the camera to look behind me and [TS]

00:25:43   be like are they can't really go someone [TS]

00:25:45   here am I supposed to be climbing this [TS]

00:25:47   mountain [TS]

00:25:47   to forever I was bummed because my new [TS]

00:25:50   my companion would he would never [TS]

00:25:52   complete his pilgrimage and it wasn't [TS]

00:25:54   busy kind of depressing and sad day i'm [TS]

00:25:56   curious to know you know again what [TS]

00:25:58   you're sort of it seems like the [TS]

00:25:59   overwhelming feeling here was kind of a [TS]

00:26:01   bond of you know [TS]

00:26:03   come-come robbery right between you and [TS]

00:26:05   so curious because I felt like different [TS]

00:26:06   at different times I had different [TS]

00:26:07   relationships with the Companions i was [TS]

00:26:10   playing with like you know in that [TS]

00:26:11   second level when you first meet someone [TS]

00:26:13   I figured out from them what I was [TS]

00:26:15   supposed to do in that level right where [TS]

00:26:17   you have to get those carpets to like [TS]

00:26:19   for the bridge for you and so he was [TS]

00:26:21   walking around and triggered something I [TS]

00:26:23   said oh okay I get it i'm going to go [TS]

00:26:24   and do this i don't know i think that's [TS]

00:26:26   what I thought of them as well what's [TS]

00:26:28   the deal with the movie tickets flying [TS]

00:26:29   around in the air when you guys did your [TS]

00:26:33   first playthrough and and you had [TS]

00:26:35   companions walking around with you I [TS]

00:26:36   have a theory on the way the game kind [TS]

00:26:38   of works with that that I've noticed [TS]

00:26:40   that on the second playthrough and on [TS]

00:26:42   subsequent playthroughs i ran across a [TS]

00:26:44   lot of people that had additional [TS]

00:26:45   decoration on the end of their robes [TS]

00:26:47   like the second time i played through I [TS]

00:26:49   noticed i had some patterns towards the [TS]

00:26:51   bottom of my robe and a i ran across a [TS]

00:26:53   lot of other people who had it all the [TS]

00:26:56   almost halfway up the road they had [TS]

00:26:58   patterns and one guy was actually [TS]

00:26:59   completely white and glowing and I don't [TS]

00:27:02   think during my first playthrough I ran [TS]

00:27:04   through anybody that meets that [TS]

00:27:05   description i think I only hit people [TS]

00:27:07   that were almost entirely brown or or [TS]

00:27:10   maybe had played through once and so I'm [TS]

00:27:12   wondering if the game is actually [TS]

00:27:13   actively gating people who have only [TS]

00:27:15   played the game I have not played the [TS]

00:27:17   game frequently and deliberately putting [TS]

00:27:20   them together to ensure that one person [TS]

00:27:22   doesn't lead everybody else to the game [TS]

00:27:24   I don't think so just because i played [TS]

00:27:28   through once completely and and [TS]

00:27:31   basically but the only way that was able [TS]

00:27:33   to tell that some people that I changed [TS]

00:27:35   companions partway through is that at [TS]

00:27:37   first I was running with somebody who [TS]

00:27:38   had a scarf that was much shorter than [TS]

00:27:40   mine and then suddenly they sat down for [TS]

00:27:42   a while and were replaced by someone who [TS]

00:27:44   had a scarf that was much longer than [TS]

00:27:45   mine [TS]

00:27:46   wonder what they saw in their little [TS]

00:27:47   vision after what you must be really [TS]

00:27:50   really hard to get people to actually [TS]

00:27:51   sit down and do that [TS]

00:27:52   meditate with someone for 20 seconds [TS]

00:27:54   trophy but anyway [TS]

00:27:56   actually I didn't have a problem with [TS]

00:27:57   that because did you I i think that that [TS]

00:27:59   the person that I ran across who had [TS]

00:28:01   stripes about halfway up the second i [TS]

00:28:03   sat down this person realized oh ok this [TS]

00:28:05   person wants to get this achievement and [TS]

00:28:07   he sat down to think i would so I went [TS]

00:28:09   to try and read various like see two [TS]

00:28:12   rentals reviews after I played it and [TS]

00:28:14   one of the things that i read basically [TS]

00:28:16   described a language in which you would [TS]

00:28:18   use signaling with the singing to try [TS]

00:28:20   and communicate awhile which seemed [TS]

00:28:22   crazy because it's like how would anyone [TS]

00:28:24   but they they have like elaborately you [TS]

00:28:26   know it was it was basically verging [TS]

00:28:28   toward Morse code right like like so too [TS]

00:28:30   long and short is it you know [TS]

00:28:32   yeah but did you did you feel like you [TS]

00:28:34   develop like an ad-hoc language because [TS]

00:28:36   I kind of did a couple points or no i [TS]

00:28:38   mean i would kind of thing back and [TS]

00:28:40   forth the people the language they were [TS]

00:28:41   suggesting seem kind of basically crazy [TS]

00:28:44   because like I mean for example you know [TS]

00:28:46   they were suggesting like all like like [TS]

00:28:48   four dashes in a row that would let you [TS]

00:28:49   apologize and I'm like I don't think [TS]

00:28:51   you're gonna game where I need to [TS]

00:28:53   apologize [TS]

00:28:53   speaking of apologies that is one of the [TS]

00:28:56   most interesting aspects of this game I [TS]

00:28:58   think you guys will hit on most of the [TS]

00:29:00   points that I would that I would have [TS]

00:29:01   brought up myself that the only thing [TS]

00:29:03   that I have to add about the multiplayer [TS]

00:29:05   are you got the point about you know the [TS]

00:29:07   so we've got the everyone here has heard [TS]

00:29:09   of a John Gabe good John Gabriel's [TS]

00:29:11   greater internet f1 theory [TS]

00:29:13   oh yes that it's normal person plus [TS]

00:29:16   anonymity is audience equals total life [TS]

00:29:18   wad right and that's what that's what [TS]

00:29:20   we're talking about in regular [TS]

00:29:21   multiplayer games also in this game [TS]

00:29:23   it's not just that there's so few [TS]

00:29:24   actions that you can do because then [TS]

00:29:26   whatever you got you got sing and you've [TS]

00:29:28   got walk around and you've got fly is [TS]

00:29:31   that they were in early versions of the [TS]

00:29:33   game [TS]

00:29:33   I've gone back now after playing it so [TS]

00:29:35   many times and read all about it [TS]

00:29:36   they are originally had a collision [TS]

00:29:39   detection between the players but I [TS]

00:29:40   don't have any of you noticed this but [TS]

00:29:41   there is no collision detection between [TS]

00:29:43   players you can be standing and [TS]

00:29:44   literally the same place as it like that [TS]

00:29:46   the body's just go through each other [TS]

00:29:48   that's so you can't even bump somebody [TS]

00:29:49   off the platform and the characters [TS]

00:29:51   themselves [TS]

00:29:52   I mean if you look at them looks like [TS]

00:29:54   they're wearing a poncho but they [TS]

00:29:55   basically have no arms like there-there [TS]

00:29:57   agency in the world through like the [TS]

00:30:00   arms which you would grab somebody or [TS]

00:30:01   punch somebody or do something to have [TS]

00:30:03   any arms this is clearly signaling no [TS]

00:30:06   interaction of that type with with the [TS]

00:30:08   other people but I you mentioned al [TS]

00:30:10   apologies one of the first things to [TS]

00:30:12   come about this game it's kind of a [TS]

00:30:13   shame you guys played it now and [TS]

00:30:14   that way back in March because there was [TS]

00:30:16   a big rush of like gamer nerds who [TS]

00:30:18   played in the first few weeks and I [TS]

00:30:20   think we all were kind of you know the [TS]

00:30:22   bright-eyed gamer nerds or whatever but [TS]

00:30:24   afterwards on the message boards for the [TS]

00:30:26   for the journey game they had a [TS]

00:30:29   persistent apology thread in which [TS]

00:30:31   people would tell a story kind of missed [TS]

00:30:33   connections on whatever thing has been [TS]

00:30:35   in sight [TS]

00:30:36   you don't know me but we were in this [TS]

00:30:37   thing together and I didn't mean to let [TS]

00:30:39   the dragon CS but he did and I feel so [TS]

00:30:41   bad about that and they were just go in [TS]

00:30:43   the forums they would have big long [TS]

00:30:44   anonymous apology threads to like you [TS]

00:30:47   know person was simple with two little [TS]

00:30:48   triangles who was on at this time a [TS]

00:30:49   night or whatever at apologizing and my [TS]

00:30:51   first experience playing through the [TS]

00:30:53   game was I guess what kind of a [TS]

00:30:54   monogamous person where I i met somebody [TS]

00:30:57   I I was by myself for a long time I saw [TS]

00:31:00   the people index I'm gonna go two miles [TS]

00:31:01   on my own until things got scary and I [TS]

00:31:03   teamed up with somebody and he he he led [TS]

00:31:06   me through the whole thing and we were [TS]

00:31:07   together you know what your business is [TS]

00:31:09   like it's like the first day the game [TS]

00:31:10   came out right so no one knows anything [TS]

00:31:12   about the game we got our stomping [TS]

00:31:13   little red tails and we're walking [TS]

00:31:15   through this thing together and we're [TS]

00:31:16   like huddled together to try to you know [TS]

00:31:18   come over here all hot and high from [TS]

00:31:20   this height of this thing whatever and [TS]

00:31:21   we were in the part where you're hiding [TS]

00:31:23   in the little sections of the Dragon [TS]

00:31:24   things so they don't see you know and [TS]

00:31:27   I'm i bumped into the doorway and didn't [TS]

00:31:29   get into the door in time I'm like one [TS]

00:31:31   of the middle ones and that was enough [TS]

00:31:33   for the dragon to spot us both and come [TS]

00:31:35   through and rip off all our tails and I [TS]

00:31:36   felt so bad about that I had to let down [TS]

00:31:40   my partner we've been in this together [TS]

00:31:42   right [TS]

00:31:43   I just felt terrible and like the the [TS]

00:31:45   rest of the walk I was like despondent [TS]

00:31:48   and like you get things like he's like [TS]

00:31:49   walking you know I felt like my head was [TS]

00:31:51   hung low it's like I blew it for both of [TS]

00:31:53   us and you know that's just it it [TS]

00:31:56   changed the game entirely for me we're [TS]

00:31:58   going to approach the light with tiny [TS]

00:32:00   little scarves i think that that [TS]

00:32:02   perfectly describes what I find so [TS]

00:32:04   magical about this game though it's [TS]

00:32:06   particularly in terms of what you're [TS]

00:32:07   saying before even about collision [TS]

00:32:08   detection I did the exact same thing by [TS]

00:32:10   the way in that area with a little you [TS]

00:32:13   know structures that you run between the [TS]

00:32:14   snow and you attract the attention of [TS]

00:32:16   things and I I wouldn't get to the the [TS]

00:32:19   door and in time and the things spotted [TS]

00:32:21   me and so I immediately broke off to the [TS]

00:32:24   side to leave the thing away from my [TS]

00:32:26   companion oh wow [TS]

00:32:27   and it worked and didn't think about it [TS]

00:32:29   and it's not something I would have done [TS]

00:32:31   pretty much any other multiplayer game [TS]

00:32:33   we're just like whatever if I'm getting [TS]

00:32:34   screwed so are you but it [TS]

00:32:36   Wow see I played that section by myself [TS]

00:32:38   it was very different it was scary i was [TS]

00:32:40   in and out like i had people there and [TS]

00:32:42   then gone and I in fact set and ready [TS]

00:32:44   the creature of myself at one point [TS]

00:32:46   without you know with nobody else around [TS]

00:32:49   i had separated myself my partner but [TS]

00:32:50   the thing that I was going to say about [TS]

00:32:51   that similar is like and that part where [TS]

00:32:54   you're sort of climbing up the mountain [TS]

00:32:55   in the snow [TS]

00:32:56   I had a guy who's sort of going along [TS]

00:32:57   with me at the same time and because of [TS]

00:33:00   the way that it the snow works you know [TS]

00:33:02   freezing your scarf like we would like I [TS]

00:33:05   would like running immediately try to [TS]

00:33:06   like cuddle with him back to like like [TS]

00:33:09   and I was like that was that was so to [TS]

00:33:11   me that was fascinating to be like we're [TS]

00:33:13   like I will fall out together and then [TS]

00:33:15   we'll fly a little bit and that's what [TS]

00:33:17   I'm saying is the one thing that they [TS]

00:33:18   kept about collision detection is that [TS]

00:33:20   you can't even mess with people by [TS]

00:33:21   running into them you run into them and [TS]

00:33:23   you refill their energy right yeah and [TS]

00:33:25   so it it fosters a certain intimacy that [TS]

00:33:28   it more or the illusion thereof even if [TS]

00:33:31   the person's ago walking into you and [TS]

00:33:32   will continue its helping you and that's [TS]

00:33:34   Sookie and in those snowy levels we are [TS]

00:33:36   huddled next to each other going up in [TS]

00:33:38   that cold snowy mountain and that's the [TS]

00:33:40   only thing that's keeping your scarves [TS]

00:33:42   from completely going out and actually [TS]

00:33:44   reminded me of ego which I have to [TS]

00:33:46   consciously not pronounced I go in my [TS]

00:33:47   head in that it's a game so much about [TS]

00:33:50   hand-holding you know even though they [TS]

00:33:52   don't really have hands in this game [TS]

00:33:53   it's a game about establishing a [TS]

00:33:55   connection through close contact with [TS]

00:33:58   other characters and that's why I think [TS]

00:34:00   like that's what i was saying to say so [TS]

00:34:01   while free because such an important [TS]

00:34:03   aspect of this game in terms of the [TS]

00:34:04   spoilers is again similar to ego the [TS]

00:34:06   comparison using ego is that an eco you [TS]

00:34:08   fight these shadowy things with the [TS]

00:34:10   stick right and since its and not [TS]

00:34:12   everything is in the game world there [TS]

00:34:13   are no health meters there are no hit [TS]

00:34:14   points there is no glowing items there's [TS]

00:34:16   no glowing red when you take damage you [TS]

00:34:18   have no idea if you can die [TS]

00:34:21   what would cause you to die how many [TS]

00:34:23   hits it takes to kill an enemy like just [TS]

00:34:24   like you know and it in this type in [TS]

00:34:26   journey [TS]

00:34:27   you don't know what what happens if I [TS]

00:34:29   get eaten by a dragon do i do I die [TS]

00:34:31   what happens at my little thing freezes [TS]

00:34:33   i do have to start the like there is [TS]

00:34:35   that part of the game were like this a [TS]

00:34:37   game system you have a number of lives [TS]

00:34:39   you know what's going to happen you have [TS]

00:34:40   no idea what's going to have [TS]

00:34:41   so you're terrified that like if that if [TS]

00:34:44   the dragon spots like the whole game is [TS]

00:34:46   over i just played this for an hour and [TS]

00:34:47   a half we been on this journey together [TS]

00:34:48   and I like that because it's it defies [TS]

00:34:51   gaming conventions of being cynical I [TS]

00:34:53   got three lives left as a 1-up mushroom [TS]

00:34:54   around the corner so not to worry about [TS]

00:34:55   that i can do this life here i'll do a [TS]

00:34:57   quick save and then i'll hit kill this [TS]

00:34:58   enemy and like nothing like that and [TS]

00:35:01   that tension of not knowing in fact not [TS]

00:35:03   knowing how the game ends like what is [TS]

00:35:05   the endgame of this game [TS]

00:35:06   am i doing something wrong by trudging [TS]

00:35:08   up this mountain my whole friggin scarf [TS]

00:35:09   is gone my things are freezing to death [TS]

00:35:11   tonight what have I done wrong by UNM I [TS]

00:35:13   think it was the worst because when I [TS]

00:35:15   let down my partner he separated a [TS]

00:35:17   little bit from me like I was behind him [TS]

00:35:20   but he was like he would wait for me but [TS]

00:35:21   it was kinda like a tell he was annoying [TS]

00:35:23   like up so-and-so walk up the hill [TS]

00:35:25   together he was like three two steps [TS]

00:35:26   ahead I'm like maybe if we had been [TS]

00:35:28   closer to each other and hold huddle for [TS]

00:35:30   warmth more like we had before we [TS]

00:35:32   wouldn't be freezing to death now that [TS]

00:35:34   not knowing and that defying of [TS]

00:35:36   conventions is so important to it i [TS]

00:35:38   think that it makes the deeply [TS]

00:35:40   experienced this plant playing this game [TS]

00:35:41   so unique as compared to all I know [TS]

00:35:44   what's gonna happen now I know all the [TS]

00:35:45   game systems now I know how this game [TS]

00:35:47   plays out i know you know it's still fun [TS]

00:35:49   and those things but that that was a [TS]

00:35:50   unique experience for me especially with [TS]

00:35:52   the multiplayer aspect that first spooky [TS]

00:35:55   dragon when you're in the kind of like [TS]

00:35:56   20 miles under there and you know having [TS]

00:35:58   not seem like an enemy and not taking [TS]

00:36:00   help and like it spotted me and it light [TS]

00:36:03   it up and it's lunging at me and it [TS]

00:36:04   grabs me and I just assumed the game is [TS]

00:36:05   over here [TS]

00:36:06   I'm done there's not there's not coming [TS]

00:36:08   back from this I have to start over to [TS]

00:36:10   walk through the desert again can you [TS]

00:36:12   survive and you're like oh yeah and then [TS]

00:36:13   you look at you think [TS]

00:36:14   no my scarf know how long it took me to [TS]

00:36:18   get that cigar Pia and make them make [TS]

00:36:20   the snapping sound with the animation [TS]

00:36:22   but there is that there is a moment of [TS]

00:36:24   like I mean when those things come to [TS]

00:36:26   life for the first time and you see them [TS]

00:36:28   did you not feel that like immediate and [TS]

00:36:30   ate like I gotta get out the white like [TS]

00:36:32   I gotta not get spite like I was up on [TS]

00:36:34   the sides behind the pillars time like [TS]

00:36:36   every time they come by like huddled [TS]

00:36:37   behind a pillar pillar and wait for it [TS]

00:36:39   to go past and like start around the [TS]

00:36:40   side just feel like i don't know i don't [TS]

00:36:42   get spotted until like on the snow like [TS]

00:36:44   going through those little parts on the [TS]

00:36:45   snow level but like can I at that point [TS]

00:36:48   I was like maybe maybe you can't get her [TS]

00:36:50   butt [TS]

00:36:51   I learned that lesson the music helps [TS]

00:36:53   helps a lot to write that the musical [TS]

00:36:56   cues when the dragon appears right are [TS]

00:36:58   our it's amazing how why we are for [TS]

00:37:01   things like musical cues from from [TS]

00:37:02   movies and TV and for me that was that [TS]

00:37:04   moment where you know the dragon is [TS]

00:37:06   spotted in the musical cue comes in and [TS]

00:37:07   then it's like Hello and it was really [TS]

00:37:09   scary it's like there's a little bit of [TS]

00:37:10   a bass rumble and there's scary music [TS]

00:37:13   and that's this cute of Hyde basically [TS]

00:37:16   and I didn't I did what I was told i ran [TS]

00:37:19   away and hid yeah not enough good can be [TS]

00:37:21   said about the music in this game [TS]

00:37:23   I mean really the to meet ya biggest [TS]

00:37:25   positive of this entire game was the way [TS]

00:37:28   the music kind of swells and fades in [TS]

00:37:30   the disparately cinematic way with the [TS]

00:37:32   action that that said i was i was really [TS]

00:37:34   shocked at the end when you get to the [TS]

00:37:36   very end you know and it burst into any [TS]

00:37:38   way you want it like that just did not [TS]

00:37:41   see that coming [TS]

00:37:42   I really felt wheel in the sky was the [TS]

00:37:44   most appropriate choice there and they [TS]

00:37:45   didn't go that way the guy who did this [TS]

00:37:47   music [TS]

00:37:48   Austin wintry when i saw it w int 0 ry [TS]

00:37:51   like I said I knew he was the composer i [TS]

00:37:53   bought the soundtrack shortly after [TS]

00:37:55   playing the game I like video game music [TS]

00:37:56   so no one's gonna buy it and I was [TS]

00:37:58   picturing him as a as a gray-haired old [TS]

00:38:01   Japanese man [TS]

00:38:02   well guess what he's just some dude he's [TS]

00:38:04   like he's like he's like our age I saw [TS]

00:38:07   III was a video thing that comes to the [TS]

00:38:08   makers of I know Jenova Chen ride to [TS]

00:38:10   I've known him for a while right so come [TS]

00:38:12   see the makers of journey like wow I'm [TS]

00:38:13   going to interview with this guy and you [TS]

00:38:14   see a guy who looks like you know it [TS]

00:38:16   looks like us and it just amazes me that [TS]

00:38:18   guy it composed this music this is [TS]

00:38:22   beautiful and that brings up the other [TS]

00:38:23   part of the game that i found [TS]

00:38:24   interesting especially now that i played [TS]

00:38:26   through it many many times and have my [TS]

00:38:27   beautiful white robes and my group of [TS]

00:38:30   patterns and all this wonderful stuff is [TS]

00:38:32   that to do a thing like this is one of [TS]

00:38:33   the complaints from like traditional [TS]

00:38:35   game people like oh this game is linear [TS]

00:38:37   like it takes you through a linear [TS]

00:38:38   series of things that and it's not does [TS]

00:38:40   not like branching paths it's not really [TS]

00:38:41   a hub world until you played it to the [TS]

00:38:43   first time you know it's it's linear [TS]

00:38:45   short whatever I they're trying to take [TS]

00:38:48   you through a series of events and [TS]

00:38:51   they've tune the game I think amazingly [TS]

00:38:53   well for basically for me for someone [TS]

00:38:55   who has played a lot of video games [TS]

00:38:57   because the music does change when [TS]

00:38:59   different things happen but its paste 82 [TS]

00:39:02   exactly line up the cues with how long [TS]

00:39:04   will take [TS]

00:39:05   to get from point A to point B how long [TS]

00:39:06   will it take you to do this next thing [TS]

00:39:07   what mood will you be in what will you [TS]

00:39:10   walk towards when the first dragon pops [TS]

00:39:12   up out of the sand the very first one [TS]

00:39:13   like they it's almost like they're [TS]

00:39:16   precognitive they know exactly the way [TS]

00:39:18   I'm going to do it and the time is going [TS]

00:39:19   to be perfect and i know this because [TS]

00:39:20   having played through the game many many [TS]

00:39:23   times at this point once you become so [TS]

00:39:26   familiar with the game that you are not [TS]

00:39:27   playing it like a first second or third [TS]

00:39:29   time player you are sort of zipping [TS]

00:39:31   through it a little bit faster or just [TS]

00:39:32   trying to get to the next thing to look [TS]

00:39:33   for somebody to help or something like [TS]

00:39:34   that you will run ahead of the cues and [TS]

00:39:37   it will not fit together as well and [TS]

00:39:39   when I saw Adam I was yet it's possible [TS]

00:39:42   but you know but the thing is they do it [TS]

00:39:44   so well for the first second and third [TS]

00:39:45   playthrough of like how you would [TS]

00:39:47   naturally play the game that it just [TS]

00:39:48   feels magical like you form that bridge [TS]

00:39:50   you get up on the bridge in this [TS]

00:39:51   different music when you start gliding [TS]

00:39:53   over the ridge well when i'm on top of [TS]

00:39:54   these red things like glide right i [TS]

00:39:56   right up to the very ending part with [TS]

00:39:57   that whole musical that we started the [TS]

00:39:59   ending in a bit like oh yes you can run [TS]

00:40:01   ahead of all those cues or behind them [TS]

00:40:04   and it doesn't quite fit together [TS]

00:40:06   seamlessly but you don't notice that the [TS]

00:40:07   first time you playing through because [TS]

00:40:08   it's just perfect it's like it's like [TS]

00:40:09   there's a guy there watching you going [TS]

00:40:11   and cue the dragon and you know it's [TS]

00:40:13   like it's like The Truman Show like the [TS]

00:40:15   entire world is being orchestrated for [TS]

00:40:17   your benefit and linear or not it's the [TS]

00:40:19   most amazing orchestration of events [TS]

00:40:21   that exactly predicted what i would do [TS]

00:40:23   and what mood i would be in right down [TS]

00:40:25   to like the little that the level where [TS]

00:40:28   you climb the big tower and they had the [TS]

00:40:30   cutscene where they show you the mural [TS]

00:40:31   in a big circle remember that Parton [TS]

00:40:33   right so in that part they show you when [TS]

00:40:37   they show you the mural like here you [TS]

00:40:38   are in the beginning level and hey [TS]

00:40:39   remember when you to this level and [TS]

00:40:40   remember too that they haven't the [TS]

00:40:43   musical cue setup and if you are with a [TS]

00:40:45   companion on that level it shows two [TS]

00:40:47   little figures and if you're by yourself [TS]

00:40:48   it shows one and since I waited awhile [TS]

00:40:50   to get my companion that the thing was [TS]

00:40:52   here you are in the beginning and here [TS]

00:40:53   you were wandering through the desert [TS]

00:40:55   and you went over the bridges and i like [TS]

00:40:57   the music he was like and then you found [TS]

00:40:58   a companion and they have the extra [TS]

00:41:00   musical cue for now you're with somebody [TS]

00:41:01   in the two of you go together with it [TS]

00:41:04   you couldn't have scripted it better and [TS]

00:41:05   like that was all of my own creation of [TS]

00:41:07   when I decided to go along with a [TS]

00:41:10   companion and how the music fit into [TS]

00:41:11   that it's unbelievable to me [TS]

00:41:13   yeah it's aight i'm with you John I I i [TS]

00:41:17   was amazed [TS]

00:41:18   is that how the score not only was it [TS]

00:41:21   beautiful but it fit with everything [TS]

00:41:23   that was that was going on and it really [TS]

00:41:25   helped make the experience on one with [TS]

00:41:26   the visuals i'll say the the desert and [TS]

00:41:28   the snow it is and actually the [TS]

00:41:31   character I learned to very rapidly I [TS]

00:41:33   learned to love the little robed guys [TS]

00:41:36   with a little eyes that you can see and [TS]

00:41:38   and the even the little inanimate you [TS]

00:41:40   know whatever you want to call carpets [TS]

00:41:41   or whatever offer dolphin guys this [TS]

00:41:43   weekend you come free my friends the big [TS]

00:41:45   whale one and the movie tell you know [TS]

00:41:47   that you ride and then the jellyfish and [TS]

00:41:51   yeah the flying the flying carpet [TS]

00:41:53   creatures yeah they're so I mean eight [TS]

00:41:56   and they managed to take this very [TS]

00:41:57   simple building block and turn it into [TS]

00:41:59   many different things that all were [TS]

00:42:01   instantly recognizable as different [TS]

00:42:03   sorts of creatures despite being made on [TS]

00:42:06   the carpet of the same nature and that [TS]

00:42:08   was fasting and I loved the stuff with [TS]

00:42:10   the murals at the end of every level [TS]

00:42:11   because I kept looking at the art and [TS]

00:42:13   thinking wow this is so it reminded me [TS]

00:42:15   in some ways of like a couple Native [TS]

00:42:17   American pieces that like my parents had [TS]

00:42:19   when I was a kid because it's got that [TS]

00:42:21   sort of almost geometric at times like [TS]

00:42:23   squared-off step style and but it wasn't [TS]

00:42:26   quite it was still this this entirely [TS]

00:42:28   and unique thing that wasn't quite of [TS]

00:42:31   anything that I know in the real world [TS]

00:42:33   and yet was still familiar in some way [TS]

00:42:35   when every game design when you're [TS]

00:42:37   making a video game especially like it [TS]

00:42:39   on indie game their first party sony [TS]

00:42:41   company right but when you're making one [TS]

00:42:42   of these small art type games you don't [TS]

00:42:44   have the budget of like call duty or you [TS]

00:42:47   know you don't have millions and [TS]

00:42:48   millions of dollars right so you have to [TS]

00:42:49   decide where to spend your money co does [TS]

00:42:51   the exact same thing here at these these [TS]

00:42:53   things like silver led by a single [TS]

00:42:55   artistic vision in this case Jenova Chen [TS]

00:42:56   with a limited budget they have to [TS]

00:42:59   decide all right what are we going to [TS]

00:43:00   spend our money on and one journey spent [TS]

00:43:02   money on it spent his money on sand they [TS]

00:43:04   just you know when not to figure out how [TS]

00:43:06   to sand how to make it look awesome how [TS]

00:43:08   to make it look 20 different ways you [TS]

00:43:10   know great and everything that and [TS]

00:43:12   fabric and then lighting so three things [TS]

00:43:14   and fabric in lighting and that's you [TS]

00:43:16   know they put all their money and all [TS]

00:43:17   the technology behind those few things [TS]

00:43:19   and it's really not that much else in [TS]

00:43:21   this game in terms of technology but it [TS]

00:43:23   shows what an incredible effect you can [TS]

00:43:25   have by deciding what's important for [TS]

00:43:27   your vision and then funneling every [TS]

00:43:29   resource you have into that equaled it [TS]

00:43:30   was lighting on [TS]

00:43:31   playstation 2i it makes it makes a big [TS]

00:43:34   difference versus saying what we got [TS]

00:43:36   have tons of enemies and we gotta have [TS]

00:43:37   this thing's gonna have that you just [TS]

00:43:38   you just spend your time and energy in [TS]

00:43:40   the right places [TS]

00:43:41   I it can pay off big what I find so [TS]

00:43:44   amazing about that and yet also [TS]

00:43:46   potentially tragic it was particularly [TS]

00:43:48   when I was walking up that snowy hill at [TS]

00:43:51   with with some other character beside me [TS]

00:43:53   and seeing the little flakes of frost [TS]

00:43:56   form on my characters rowboat and seeing [TS]

00:43:58   them digging a trench through the snow [TS]

00:44:00   as they walked in just admiring all the [TS]

00:44:02   visual effects of it was thinking to [TS]

00:44:03   myself this is a game that will really [TS]

00:44:06   hold up you know like when I when I went [TS]

00:44:08   back to play ninja gaiden on nintendo [TS]

00:44:11   entertainment system after decades right [TS]

00:44:13   that there's the the scene where I stand [TS]

00:44:16   at the top of a cliff looking out over [TS]

00:44:17   the jungle of this castle stone in the [TS]

00:44:19   distance that was epic when I was a [TS]

00:44:21   little kid and I'll go back and play it [TS]

00:44:23   now and I'm just like this this impress [TS]

00:44:24   the hell out of me but I could see [TS]

00:44:26   myself coming back to this game years [TS]

00:44:28   later and thinking this still is just as [TS]

00:44:30   gorgeous as it was the day that I first [TS]

00:44:32   played its really excellent what I find [TS]

00:44:34   potentially tragic about that is that [TS]

00:44:35   this game will only last in the form [TS]

00:44:39   that it does for as long as there's [TS]

00:44:41   still the technology for you to meet [TS]

00:44:43   other players on it you know like Dark [TS]

00:44:45   Souls and demon souls demon souls is [TS]

00:44:47   another PlayStation game that you know a [TS]

00:44:50   lot of the sort of anonymous [TS]

00:44:52   interactions with other players and you [TS]

00:44:54   will die here [TS]

00:44:55   yeah i mean the sum of the wasn't a [TS]

00:44:57   message is written on the ground so it [TS]

00:44:58   was just random people invading you or [TS]

00:45:01   jumping in to help you out and you [TS]

00:45:03   couldn't communicate with them verbally [TS]

00:45:04   but they would bow to you and there's a [TS]

00:45:06   whole system of gestures the fascinating [TS]

00:45:08   thing and then they shut down the [TS]

00:45:09   multiplayer servers so now you can only [TS]

00:45:11   play demon's soul single-player there's [TS]

00:45:13   dark souls but it kind of makes me [TS]

00:45:15   wonder I don't exactly know what what [TS]

00:45:17   hosting technique they're using for [TS]

00:45:19   journey but it kind of struck me as I [TS]

00:45:21   was walking up that hill like this is so [TS]

00:45:23   gorgeous i want to play this again and [TS]

00:45:25   again and again I wonder if when I'm [TS]

00:45:27   gonna lose the ability to actually walk [TS]

00:45:29   up to hell with somebody else will the [TS]

00:45:30   ps4 or whatever that is next obviate [TS]

00:45:33   this and and turn it into sort of an [TS]

00:45:35   ephemeral experience I felt the same way [TS]

00:45:38   about you guys playing months after came [TS]

00:45:39   out like all they're never gonna get the [TS]

00:45:40   experience when we are all stumpy little [TS]

00:45:42   red shirts like we're not us [TS]

00:45:43   that pattern on shore little scarves [TS]

00:45:45   like we used to have like and in my [TS]

00:45:47   first playthrough at a certain point my [TS]

00:45:49   partner and i were saw a glowing symbol [TS]

00:45:51   but we couldn't get to it because our [TS]

00:45:52   things for to stumpy because we hadn't [TS]

00:45:54   been collecting and we were trying to [TS]

00:45:56   sing to each other and jump [TS]

00:45:57   simultaneously like 123 like because [TS]

00:45:59   when you're talking about whether you [TS]

00:46:01   stay charged yeah sorts of its much you [TS]

00:46:04   know much harder he must have been a [TS]

00:46:06   game or two because we're like at this [TS]

00:46:07   point in the game like we know we need [TS]

00:46:09   to get longer scarves because the [TS]

00:46:10   challenges are actually getting a little [TS]

00:46:11   more challenge let's work together to do [TS]

00:46:13   it but how the hell do you communicate [TS]

00:46:14   that with the circle button and like [TS]

00:46:16   that experience that's not gonna happen [TS]

00:46:18   again because even like at this point [TS]

00:46:19   you go through there's always some good [TS]

00:46:21   with a scarf you know 20 miles long [TS]

00:46:22   hanging around and the white robes are [TS]

00:46:24   hanging around that's a different [TS]

00:46:25   experience [TS]

00:46:26   I'm Molly idea i mean i think it and it [TS]

00:46:28   took me a really long time even figure [TS]

00:46:30   out that scars could get longer and [TS]

00:46:31   again you too [TS]

00:46:32   I don't know if indicated like you [TS]

00:46:34   suggested all I i actually all of my [TS]

00:46:36   companions I had a longer scarf so yeah [TS]

00:46:38   I get for a while until i got eaten by [TS]

00:46:40   dre it i think it's mixing up now [TS]

00:46:41   because I just played one more game [TS]

00:46:43   before coming on here and I played as a [TS]

00:46:45   white robe and you get treated [TS]

00:46:46   differently as a white robe especially [TS]

00:46:49   my other by their white robes because in [TS]

00:46:50   general if you see some of the white [TS]

00:46:51   robe you know you're probably the arocs [TS]

00:46:54   trying to help a newbie out but I just [TS]

00:46:56   met other white robes and we hung out [TS]

00:46:57   and like talked with our little circle [TS]

00:46:59   button a little bit but we were all like [TS]

00:47:00   we're waiting for some from retro to [TS]

00:47:03   come in to help us out and it ever was [TS]

00:47:06   like hey doing yet what you know like [TS]

00:47:07   we're there to help the other guys there [TS]

00:47:10   weren't many other guys and you're on [TS]

00:47:12   your coffee break you're standing on the [TS]

00:47:14   water coolers hanging out jumping and [TS]

00:47:16   singing waiting for the noobs the white [TS]

00:47:19   robes are there they're scarf recharges [TS]

00:47:21   as soon as I touch the ground so you [TS]

00:47:22   don't have to [TS]

00:47:22   who's the new guy the reason i thought [TS]

00:47:27   there wasn't getting is because I ran [TS]

00:47:28   into one of those white white robes in [TS]

00:47:29   my second game [TS]

00:47:31   yeah well the guys they get the [TS]

00:47:33   Companions I ran into most of the time [TS]

00:47:34   we had like a little bit around like the [TS]

00:47:36   hem of their garment like a little bit [TS]

00:47:38   yellow like and and I couldn't inform me [TS]

00:47:41   that means one playthrough is right and [TS]

00:47:43   i wondered for a while whether it meant [TS]

00:47:46   oh that's just there to totally [TS]

00:47:47   distinguish because i never saw anybody [TS]

00:47:49   wearing the same robe is music oh maybe [TS]

00:47:51   that's just the other player and how [TS]

00:47:52   they show [TS]

00:47:53   up whenever they come in but it was such [TS]

00:47:55   a weird like difference of I felt the [TS]

00:47:58   relationships kept shifting and part of [TS]

00:47:59   that was you know it was different [TS]

00:48:01   people over time but also sometimes [TS]

00:48:02   would be like oh we're kind of working [TS]

00:48:04   together and and sometimes it would be [TS]

00:48:06   more like oh you're doing a thing over [TS]

00:48:08   there you know what I'm gonna skin to [TS]

00:48:09   keep going and see what happens but the [TS]

00:48:11   the end and I think we sort of it's been [TS]

00:48:13   alluded to a couple times when you're [TS]

00:48:14   climbing up the mountain [TS]

00:48:16   I there was a guy just a little bit [TS]

00:48:18   ahead of me and I was trying to catch up [TS]

00:48:20   with him thinking oh man i can get warm [TS]

00:48:22   i can warm them up i can get really [TS]

00:48:23   close to them and then I saw him like [TS]

00:48:25   fall down to his knees [TS]

00:48:26   no get up get up and then I got up there [TS]

00:48:29   and I'm like trying to like warm them up [TS]

00:48:30   and then I fall down like now go get out [TS]

00:48:33   what did you what did you think at that [TS]

00:48:35   point I was trying was so that I thought [TS]

00:48:37   we both die on Twitter one of our one of [TS]

00:48:39   our listeners Steve block said having a [TS]

00:48:43   companion struggle with me through the [TS]

00:48:44   snow was I think one of the most [TS]

00:48:46   important things about journey and I [TS]

00:48:48   agree that that was an incredibly [TS]

00:48:50   memorable thing that it wasn't just me [TS]

00:48:51   on that mountain that sheer Mountain [TS]

00:48:53   cliff that there was this guy who is [TS]

00:48:56   struggling right by right by my select [TS]

00:48:58   and then and then he went to his knees [TS]

00:49:00   and fell into the snow and then so did I [TS]

00:49:03   and it was very sad [TS]

00:49:04   I did it by myself I must let my [TS]

00:49:06   companion down you know it'sit's but [TS]

00:49:09   it's very different there could have [TS]

00:49:10   been someone right behind you [TS]

00:49:12   I kept looking behind I told you every [TS]

00:49:14   time I was alone I would turn and I [TS]

00:49:15   would you know it's like are they there [TS]

00:49:17   if I can see them all wait for them died [TS]

00:49:19   alone about of the man I kept looking [TS]

00:49:20   behind my shoulder and there was no one [TS]

00:49:22   there when i dropped into the snow i [TS]

00:49:25   thought to myself God if only that guy [TS]

00:49:27   who failed way back there in the [TS]

00:49:29   underground passages had survived to [TS]

00:49:32   this point he could have worn my ass up [TS]

00:49:34   but no no no I'm falling to my face in [TS]

00:49:37   the snow because that other guy was so [TS]

00:49:39   utterly incompetent [TS]

00:49:40   so did you all think that was the end of [TS]

00:49:41   the game and you have failed you died [TS]

00:49:43   there was a moment i live at that same [TS]

00:49:45   time I was also like yeah they're not [TS]

00:49:47   going to end like that but there was a [TS]

00:49:48   moment of like what I wonder if this [TS]

00:49:50   could have been done better [TS]

00:49:52   my gamer instincts were already telling [TS]

00:49:54   me gotten where's the last save so i can [TS]

00:49:56   go back and end this is definitely is [TS]

00:49:58   this is going to count against my [TS]

00:49:59   achievement [TS]

00:50:01   is there can be there can be going in [TS]

00:50:02   with gamer convention and there can be [TS]

00:50:04   like having too much of them like I [TS]

00:50:05   don't like the fact that achievement [TS]

00:50:06   things would appear on the screen i had [TS]

00:50:08   in the HD re-release of ecology plan to [TS]

00:50:10   disable them because i think it takes [TS]

00:50:12   you out of the game because there's [TS]

00:50:13   nothing like that in eco and journey the [TS]

00:50:15   same type of thing but like oh speaking [TS]

00:50:18   of game conventions that getting back [TS]

00:50:20   way back to the beginning to me this [TS]

00:50:23   game was screaming its conventions that [TS]

00:50:25   you but in gamer language like it would [TS]

00:50:28   be a you-know-what first takes you to [TS]

00:50:29   that person is press the X button right [TS]

00:50:31   that's pretty much screaming as far as [TS]

00:50:32   this game is concerned text appeared on [TS]

00:50:34   the screen not text was like I was doing [TS]

00:50:37   just showed the controller with X right [TS]

00:50:38   and then it you can control the camera [TS]

00:50:41   because it is a cutscene you walk into [TS]

00:50:42   the little circle you press the button [TS]

00:50:44   it shows your little scarf growing it [TS]

00:50:47   shows little things lighting up on like [TS]

00:50:48   it's trying to communicate your scarf X [TS]

00:50:51   button yellowing symbols press button [TS]

00:50:53   symbol like it is screaming the system [TS]

00:50:55   yet people way through almost the entire [TS]

00:50:57   game and not realize you have symbols [TS]

00:50:59   they glow when you press X button that [TS]

00:51:01   depletes then when you get a blowy ruin [TS]

00:51:02   simple your scarf it's longer like that [TS]

00:51:04   the fact that people can play this game [TS]

00:51:05   and not get that is crazy to me but it [TS]

00:51:07   just shows that like no matter how much [TS]

00:51:09   you get hit over the head with something [TS]

00:51:10   sometimes he was like the beginning of [TS]

00:51:12   the Godfather I believe in America right [TS]

00:51:14   and people watch the movie and like have [TS]

00:51:16   no idea what they were getting it right [TS]

00:51:17   the first mind the movie there's nothing [TS]

00:51:19   on the screen is black the glowing [TS]

00:51:21   symbols are easy to pick up i picked [TS]

00:51:22   that up immediately but the long long [TS]

00:51:24   scarf I don't think took a little while [TS]

00:51:26   zoomed in on it a bit or something but [TS]

00:51:28   it was not highlighted enough to me that [TS]

00:51:29   I even picked up on the first [TS]

00:51:31   playthrough I didn't even realize until [TS]

00:51:32   the second that there were guys walking [TS]

00:51:34   around with scarves that ran in fact you [TS]

00:51:36   know what the achievement i think was [TS]

00:51:37   the thing that tipped me off to it [TS]

00:51:38   because there's a achievement that is [TS]

00:51:40   get through the underground tunnel [TS]

00:51:42   without getting your scarf or i might to [TS]

00:51:45   this very day not even realize how small [TS]

00:51:47   and inconsequential my little scarf is [TS]

00:51:49   no i mean like this things like that [TS]

00:51:51   every level so for example the pattern [TS]

00:51:53   going up the hem of your thing that is [TS]

00:51:55   much more subtle but in general the game [TS]

00:51:58   communicates to you visually like a [TS]

00:52:00   movie would like so when the first [TS]

00:52:01   little dolphin thing as i call them you [TS]

00:52:03   free them like the game communicates you [TS]

00:52:05   with camera moves and the animation [TS]

00:52:07   saying hey follow me [TS]

00:52:09   these guys will take you somewhere maybe [TS]

00:52:10   you should follow them if and it and [TS]

00:52:12   if if you're tuned to like because they [TS]

00:52:14   really you think you have total camera [TS]

00:52:16   control but you don't again playing [TS]

00:52:17   through this game many many times [TS]

00:52:18   I'm like had hey i wanna i want to turn [TS]

00:52:21   the camera sometimes it won't even let [TS]

00:52:22   you turn the i'm on the reverse [TS]

00:52:23   directing it totally controlled you can [TS]

00:52:25   because it wants to show you things now [TS]

00:52:27   you don't notice this till the 5th [TS]

00:52:28   playthrough when you decide along and [TS]

00:52:29   explore i want to turn the camera [TS]

00:52:31   completely around like for example that [TS]

00:52:32   scene where I don't know how much this [TS]

00:52:34   is another thing is that this happened [TS]

00:52:36   to everybody else in the underground [TS]

00:52:37   thing when the last section of the [TS]

00:52:39   underground you can't go to the sides [TS]

00:52:41   like you have to go through this little [TS]

00:52:42   gauntlet of dragons and eventually goes [TS]

00:52:44   into a long downhill and you go into the [TS]

00:52:46   big glowy region there's pretty much no [TS]

00:52:48   way right to avoid getting spotted the [TS]

00:52:50   way this played out the first and second [TS]

00:52:52   time i played it was alright we just got [TS]

00:52:54   to go for it with my companion [TS]

00:52:55   alright let's just go and we just go in [TS]

00:52:57   the dragon spot you and the chasing you [TS]

00:52:58   right behind you going as fast as you [TS]

00:53:00   can and it's downhill so even if you [TS]

00:53:01   have no scarf juice left to do your [TS]

00:53:03   flying thing like I it'll be quite a [TS]

00:53:05   pursuit and then the Dragons will hit [TS]

00:53:07   the big glowing wall magic and be [TS]

00:53:09   repelled and you will make it through [TS]

00:53:10   and slide thru the triumphal music and [TS]

00:53:12   everything like that I if you play [TS]

00:53:14   through later and don't do that and try [TS]

00:53:16   to turn back and go back up the hill [TS]

00:53:18   you can't walk back up the hill you [TS]

00:53:20   can't turn the camera around like it you [TS]

00:53:22   see you start to see the way they're [TS]

00:53:23   fencing you in up but you would never [TS]

00:53:26   notice that the first playthrough [TS]

00:53:27   because you're like oh my god dragons [TS]

00:53:28   dragon dragon during the run it's kind [TS]

00:53:31   of like you know like seeing a movie and [TS]

00:53:34   then being able to turn the camera a [TS]

00:53:35   little bit and see that these these sets [TS]

00:53:37   are not real houses and as you know [TS]

00:53:38   things behind them [TS]

00:53:40   well yeah at the same time there were [TS]

00:53:41   times where it's like there's that one [TS]

00:53:42   level in the sand where you slide down [TS]

00:53:44   the really long corridor you're looking [TS]

00:53:46   out at the city through the pillars and [TS]

00:53:49   that was like was like my concerts times [TS]

00:53:51   we doing I'm just put into it [TS]

00:53:53   just enjoy the view I wanted to like get [TS]

00:53:54   off the ride and see that stuff and [TS]

00:53:56   right but at the same time I love that [TS]

00:53:58   throws in things that are like that [TS]

00:54:00   almost seemed game like like when you're [TS]

00:54:02   slowing down the hill there's a little [TS]

00:54:03   like gates you can slow through and it's [TS]

00:54:05   like you don't have that you don't have [TS]

00:54:06   to go through them right but you don't [TS]

00:54:07   have to wait like you kind of want to [TS]

00:54:09   like oh I'm gonna aim for all these [TS]

00:54:10   things and I'm like I made for 30 then I [TS]

00:54:12   hit a rock by the way down if you want a [TS]

00:54:14   hundred percent the game you have to go [TS]

00:54:15   through the know you're rewarded for [TS]

00:54:17   going through them with with bursts of [TS]

00:54:18   speed and achievements stuff but that [TS]

00:54:20   that's second to talk about what goes [TS]

00:54:21   into side view I just felt good to [TS]

00:54:23   anybody goes in the side [TS]

00:54:24   viewing the Sun is blowing through those [TS]

00:54:25   pills and everything like that oh that's [TS]

00:54:27   fantastic [TS]

00:54:27   [Music] [TS]

00:54:38   i love the fact that i had been taken to [TS]

00:54:41   a point about that point in the game [TS]

00:54:43   that i did not have that gamer feeling [TS]

00:54:45   of like maybe i can stop here maybe [TS]

00:54:47   something had no like I the first [TS]

00:54:48   playthrough I was not looking for a [TS]

00:54:50   hundred percent ruin completion and by [TS]

00:54:51   that point in the game they had totally [TS]

00:54:53   got me to the point where it didn't even [TS]

00:54:54   occur to me to do anything ever sit back [TS]

00:54:56   and enjoy how awesome this game is like [TS]

00:54:58   I jumped that was like jumping look I'm [TS]

00:54:59   flying to it was just beautiful and [TS]

00:55:01   amazing yeah you just want to rock and [TS]

00:55:03   it's very difficult for a game to take a [TS]

00:55:05   long time gamer out of the game of mind [TS]

00:55:07   set up like I bet if I stopped here [TS]

00:55:09   there's probably some secret behind the [TS]

00:55:10   pillar right or something like that to [TS]

00:55:11   take you completely out of that and into [TS]

00:55:13   i'm just going to enjoy this the same [TS]

00:55:15   one you enjoy beautiful even better [TS]

00:55:17   because you're making it happen that was [TS]

00:55:19   that in many other moments just magical [TS]

00:55:21   this game very different friend again [TS]

00:55:22   well there's just some sheer beauty I [TS]

00:55:24   mean there's at least one point where [TS]

00:55:25   you come in and like you know the sand [TS]

00:55:27   is like glowing like a golden ocean and [TS]

00:55:30   it's just there is there are couple [TS]

00:55:32   breathtaking moments in terms of just [TS]

00:55:33   the aesthetics of the moment where the [TS]

00:55:36   big gigantic underground room suddenly [TS]

00:55:38   transforms itself into an ocean and [TS]

00:55:40   you're swimming up ya supposed to [TS]

00:55:41   jumping that's that pretty amazed and [TS]

00:55:44   subtle but well done [TS]

00:55:45   yeah it's rewarding you with like at [TS]

00:55:47   that point especially if you just play [TS]

00:55:48   the game you spend a lot of time as a [TS]

00:55:50   guy with a stumpy scarf who can't jump [TS]

00:55:52   that much now like you're in the flowing [TS]

00:55:53   liquid that complete charges you up like [TS]

00:55:55   infinitely when you're in the stuff so [TS]

00:55:57   now you can't like I can't follow us [TS]

00:55:59   some of the king of the world and now [TS]

00:56:00   you can fly and then you get to ride in [TS]

00:56:02   a big whale thing it's like just it's [TS]

00:56:03   amazing because they've they've trained [TS]

00:56:06   you and what the constraints of the [TS]

00:56:07   world are and then like now they slowly [TS]

00:56:09   remove them and that that that actually [TS]

00:56:10   brings up the final thing after my first [TS]

00:56:13   I want to ask everybody did it did [TS]

00:56:14   anybody actually think the game was over [TS]

00:56:16   when I fell down in the snow [TS]

00:56:17   I did I i think i was gonna go to some [TS]

00:56:20   cutscenes and there'd be you know [TS]

00:56:21   something would happen when they crossed [TS]

00:56:23   my mind but it seems too perfect I mean [TS]

00:56:25   for a game called journey [TS]

00:56:27   it seemed to perfect moment for like it [TS]

00:56:29   can't get any worse therefore it must [TS]

00:56:30   get better next right the narrative arc [TS]

00:56:32   yeah I was prepared for something that [TS]

00:56:34   would break the narrative arc so forth [TS]

00:56:37   but from a from a movie watchers [TS]

00:56:40   perspective if I think about the [TS]

00:56:41   narrative of this of this game and it [TS]

00:56:44   was I mean beautiful with the music it [TS]

00:56:46   felt like a great a lost a dino animated [TS]

00:56:50   film in [TS]

00:56:51   where it's like wow this is ma I was [TS]

00:56:54   engrossed in it the ending because you [TS]

00:56:58   you seem to die and then you end up [TS]

00:57:01   being basically judged by the gods and [TS]

00:57:04   they're like well you tried really hard [TS]

00:57:05   here you go you gotta really have kids [TS]

00:57:07   you got a long scarf you can get to the [TS]

00:57:09   top now and you get to the top and then [TS]

00:57:10   you're like sent back to the beginning [TS]

00:57:12   and and my wife and I were talking about [TS]

00:57:14   this today how how you can view it that [TS]

00:57:16   way but you know I always viewed it is [TS]

00:57:18   as you know you went on the journey and [TS]

00:57:19   you died and you did died you died and [TS]

00:57:22   you're dead [TS]

00:57:23   I thought I thought that might be it [TS]

00:57:24   that was afterlife yeah you have your [TS]

00:57:26   near-death hallucination which is like [TS]

00:57:27   you can do anything and you can go to [TS]

00:57:29   the top and that's fine and then you're [TS]

00:57:31   reincarnated back down at the bottom of [TS]

00:57:32   the hill so I viewed it as you you die [TS]

00:57:34   in the snow and that's your journey is [TS]

00:57:35   you [TS]

00:57:36   it leads you to die house know with me [TS]

00:57:37   and you get your moment in paradise [TS]

00:57:39   before you move on ya gameplay [TS]

00:57:40   perspective though what it does to you [TS]

00:57:42   is that of course you know if you'd gone [TS]

00:57:43   to the snow level and you're with you if [TS]

00:57:45   if you're with somebody you and your [TS]

00:57:46   huddling up against the wind and you're [TS]

00:57:48   trying not to get blown back on the [TS]

00:57:49   stairs and you're hiding from the dragon [TS]

00:57:51   you tried the mountain at this point I [TS]

00:57:52   was so I so wanted to get to that [TS]

00:57:54   glowing top of the mountain oh yeah no [TS]

00:57:56   yeah no kidding they're showing you like [TS]

00:57:58   see this big long mountain bike is [TS]

00:57:59   another thing like i guess i could get [TS]

00:58:01   there about a communication you know [TS]

00:58:03   some people see this game and not [TS]

00:58:04   understand what the goal is to show you [TS]

00:58:06   that glowing mountains like go there [TS]

00:58:08   it's the giant triangle many in seen one [TS]

00:58:11   seen one you're looking around there's [TS]

00:58:13   nothing but like something at the top of [TS]

00:58:14   a hill that's like a rock or something [TS]

00:58:15   you like I'll go up there and you go up [TS]

00:58:17   there and as you crest the hill it has [TS]

00:58:19   the shot and you see them out in the [TS]

00:58:20   background you like okay got it [TS]

00:58:22   I mean like it so clear but so I was so [TS]

00:58:24   motivated to get his journey at that [TS]

00:58:26   point so I mean it should be pretty [TS]

00:58:27   clear is offering over the mountain [TS]

00:58:29   journey here you go around it's just not [TS]

00:58:31   a narrow down that's the only little and [TS]

00:58:34   I so wanted to get up that mountain so [TS]

00:58:36   I'm trying to get up this hill in the [TS]

00:58:37   snow and everything and I have played [TS]

00:58:39   enough games that i know this could [TS]

00:58:40   possibly be the end but the thing about [TS]

00:58:42   it was that they brought you so low that [TS]

00:58:44   your scarf food frozen off complete [TS]

00:58:46   completely gone [TS]

00:58:47   I blame myself for a lot of this and [TS]

00:58:49   then that the you know the cutscene [TS]

00:58:52   where everything is white and you go [TS]

00:58:53   racing towards the light at that point [TS]

00:58:55   what you see is the first blue sky in [TS]

00:58:58   this entire game all the other guys are [TS]

00:58:59   green or [TS]

00:59:00   read or different colors blue sky clouds [TS]

00:59:03   really long scarf and you know [TS]

00:59:06   triumphant music but this is what i love [TS]

00:59:08   about this they don't make it an [TS]

00:59:11   on-rails cutscene you get to enjoy [TS]

00:59:13   flying through that especially spent the [TS]

00:59:15   whole game of the stumpy scarf and a [TS]

00:59:17   little red thing you still must navigate [TS]

00:59:19   this and it's possible like to mess up [TS]

00:59:21   and fall down or whatever so you feel [TS]

00:59:22   like because I didn't mess up and fall [TS]

00:59:24   down that finally I'm free of the [TS]

00:59:26   constraints of my life that had all this [TS]

00:59:28   you know drudgery and work and toil and [TS]

00:59:31   where I messed up and now i can do no [TS]

00:59:33   wrong because the skills I developed in [TS]

00:59:34   the rest of the game i can now you know [TS]

00:59:37   go through all these things and ride the [TS]

00:59:38   giant whale and go up the waterfalls and [TS]

00:59:40   my scarf is infinite and there's all [TS]

00:59:41   these pools of things that recharge me [TS]

00:59:43   that you know it was the best reward for [TS]

00:59:46   you know it's like it's okay you tried [TS]

00:59:49   your best [TS]

00:59:50   here is your reward come with you and [TS]

00:59:52   your companion because my friend was [TS]

00:59:54   there to like let's come together to the [TS]

00:59:56   top looks like we you know we tried the [TS]

00:59:58   best and then here's our [TS]

00:59:58   best and then here's our [TS]

01:00:00   like jason said you've been your effort [TS]

01:00:02   has been judged worthy here's your [TS]

01:00:03   reward and they don't just give it to [TS]

01:00:05   you for free [TS]

01:00:06   you still must now demonstrate all the [TS]

01:00:08   skills that you've done like you know [TS]

01:00:09   all the things that you wish you could [TS]

01:00:11   have done 20 levels ago now you can [TS]

01:00:13   finally do them in this you know magical [TS]

01:00:15   Wonderland and then you know it comes [TS]

01:00:17   down in the end when you get to walk [TS]

01:00:18   into life together one of the best [TS]

01:00:20   ending rewards of a game that really [TS]

01:00:22   made me feel like I accomplished [TS]

01:00:24   something that could give me closure and [TS]

01:00:26   all it requires is for me to die and [TS]

01:00:28   seen before that but you're right it [TS]

01:00:30   your reward is that you get to have full [TS]

01:00:32   power after you've been having all these [TS]

01:00:34   issues with no my scarves not long [TS]

01:00:35   enough racket and and it's like now you [TS]

01:00:38   can everybody has that ever you know the [TS]

01:00:39   link the scarf is what's important I get [TS]

01:00:41   spam email in time that's going on for [TS]

01:00:43   longer i know it's amazing but it's so [TS]

01:00:45   now it's the moments like you you can [TS]

01:00:47   fly and you not to worry about just fly [TS]

01:00:49   and bounced around and get and just jump [TS]

01:00:51   from ledge to ledge and and it's [TS]

01:00:53   beautiful and fun and and you're flying [TS]

01:00:55   up to the top of the mountain and it's [TS]

01:00:57   nice but from a from a story perspective [TS]

01:00:59   you know yeah you're dead [TS]

01:01:02   that's mine that's how I read now with [TS]

01:01:05   the afterlife when you got to the top of [TS]

01:01:07   this thing where you've gone up the [TS]

01:01:08   mountain and they said like that final [TS]

01:01:10   landing area and your scarf once again [TS]

01:01:12   disappears if I'm not sure you [TS]

01:01:13   understand that the way through you come [TS]

01:01:15   to any surface appears did for the [TS]

01:01:17   people who are with companions did you [TS]

01:01:19   wait for your companion to go into the [TS]

01:01:20   lighter to go yourself [TS]

01:01:22   I tried to make sure that i was going [TS]

01:01:23   exactly the same speed on my second goes [TS]

01:01:25   you know that we walked in at the exact [TS]

01:01:27   same moment I didn't see someone with me [TS]

01:01:30   but when I got to like there was someone [TS]

01:01:31   there and then we were like he was just [TS]

01:01:33   a little bit ahead of me and so I kept [TS]

01:01:34   trying to catch up to my hey wait wait [TS]

01:01:36   let's go into the and then we run the [TS]

01:01:37   light which is kind of weird it is he [TS]

01:01:40   didn't enter that like you didn't freeze [TS]

01:01:41   that the people who with people who [TS]

01:01:43   froze to death with a companion didn't [TS]

01:01:45   do that you're going up the hill to get [TS]

01:01:46   out yeah with your guy you both rosyth [TS]

01:01:48   and did you also go with him through the [TS]

01:01:50   the reward phase to your final that's no [TS]

01:01:53   I don't think I know my first time [TS]

01:01:55   through I lost them somewhere in [TS]

01:01:56   Paradise and I was just like oh well I [TS]

01:01:58   guess one of us is getting reincarnated [TS]

01:02:01   this is my second time through though I [TS]

01:02:03   you know I sped up to the top and then I [TS]

01:02:06   thought to myself well maybe I'll wait [TS]

01:02:07   and see if I can see them and I looked [TS]

01:02:08   down I saw them there and I just SAT [TS]

01:02:10   there floating and like this this golden [TS]

01:02:12   airstream in the sky and I was like this [TS]

01:02:14   is really pleasant and hung out there [TS]

01:02:16   for a while until they caught up and [TS]

01:02:18   then was very very careful to walk [TS]

01:02:19   through the same speed because it's like [TS]

01:02:20   I don't want to go alone this time and [TS]

01:02:22   you can give that mighty bellow like the [TS]

01:02:24   other thing when your circle button the [TS]

01:02:26   little thing that gives your little [TS]

01:02:27   voice when you have no scarf it's just a [TS]

01:02:29   little poop butt on that level and very [TS]

01:02:31   long scarf it's like almost like the [TS]

01:02:34   voice of God expands out to the entire [TS]

01:02:36   size of the screen [TS]

01:02:37   it's true there's like a glow that it [TS]

01:02:39   emanates yeah that's what I like about [TS]

01:02:40   yeah it's much larger if your scarf is [TS]

01:02:42   big [TS]

01:02:45   so to speak yeah not the size matters no [TS]

01:02:48   we're just talking about scarves [TS]

01:02:51   yeah I found the ending a little [TS]

01:02:52   disappointing i have to say [TS]

01:02:55   I was going to get off get off this putt [TS]

01:02:57   I know I know I realize I'm I breaking [TS]

01:02:59   for more doxy but it seems like the plot [TS]

01:03:02   was going to reveal some sort of [TS]

01:03:03   profound spiritual statement and perhaps [TS]

01:03:05   I don't know the journey is the reward [TS]

01:03:07   state is the Reeve look inside yourself [TS]

01:03:09   come on [TS]

01:03:11   but it's a pretty sucky reward because [TS]

01:03:13   you end up a tiny scarf on the pile of [TS]

01:03:15   sand again [TS]

01:03:16   what the what the hell is that size [TS]

01:03:18   matters not judge me by my size do you [TS]

01:03:21   the reward is fashion you've got a [TS]

01:03:22   better hemline now you get to be one of [TS]

01:03:25   the glowing white guys eventually you [TS]

01:03:26   start as a as a sad little brown stumpy [TS]

01:03:29   guy and then you end up is a glowing [TS]

01:03:30   white guy that's you wow that sounds not [TS]

01:03:32   good [TS]

01:03:33   well that's that's part of the thing [TS]

01:03:34   when the star comes up at the end like [TS]

01:03:36   you've gone into the light and the [TS]

01:03:38   little star comes out of the the top of [TS]

01:03:39   the mountain right and they roll the [TS]

01:03:41   credits and during the credit rolls [TS]

01:03:43   what you see is the star going backwards [TS]

01:03:45   right places you've been at different [TS]

01:03:46   times a day we write interesting and it [TS]

01:03:48   slowly eventually becomes becomes night [TS]

01:03:49   and the best part of that is that [TS]

01:03:51   there's there's a brown guy on the [TS]

01:03:52   little bridge across the area [TS]

01:03:54   whatever you that sees you going by like [TS]

01:03:57   you feel like you brought hope to that [TS]

01:03:58   guy right but what happens is that [TS]

01:04:00   little thing comes back and plops down [TS]

01:04:02   right where you start which obviously [TS]

01:04:03   everyone is good you know but that's I [TS]

01:04:04   think that's the the message of the [TS]

01:04:06   thing is it did you do you think that [TS]

01:04:08   was you or did you think that was you as [TS]

01:04:11   anything like you see something at the [TS]

01:04:12   beginning right you see the comment or [TS]

01:04:14   whatever i call it will start thing [TS]

01:04:15   falling did you assume that was you [TS]

01:04:17   being reincarnated like when you saw [TS]

01:04:19   that the NSU just think i'm just an [TS]

01:04:21   example for the next person that's [TS]

01:04:22   that's kinda what I felt like an certain [TS]

01:04:24   extent was like I'm showing the way for [TS]

01:04:26   someone else [TS]

01:04:27   no that's definitely you because then [TS]

01:04:28   you start your next journey immediately [TS]

01:04:30   thereafter you press the start button [TS]

01:04:31   again and there you go up the mountain [TS]

01:04:32   right i did not start my next journey i [TS]

01:04:34   left the room I i left as well but let's [TS]

01:04:37   see what during the game when you're [TS]

01:04:38   playing you can if you look up into the [TS]

01:04:40   sky in the distance you know when the [TS]

01:04:42   show the mountain bikes around the [TS]

01:04:43   desert level mountain still out there is [TS]

01:04:44   a background plate right little stars [TS]

01:04:46   will come out of that mountain [TS]

01:04:48   and they're not just random if you [TS]

01:04:49   follow them when they come out they will [TS]

01:04:51   take you to places where they're [TS]

01:04:52   interesting discovery balls and secrets [TS]

01:04:54   in the game it's a pretty seamless world [TS]

01:04:56   they built here but with with the star [TS]

01:04:59   coming back and landing back in the [TS]

01:05:00   beginning to think that Dan was [TS]

01:05:02   referencing that I won't spoil I think [TS]

01:05:04   that's the only way you can possibly end [TS]

01:05:06   a game like this is to take it back to [TS]

01:05:08   the beginning and put it down right [TS]

01:05:10   where it started and then you're back at [TS]

01:05:12   the title screen [TS]

01:05:13   [Music] [TS]

01:05:21   [Music] [TS]

01:05:28   [Music] [TS]

01:05:31   ok I'll accept that but it at the same [TS]

01:05:34   time I i wanted some sort of explanation [TS]

01:05:36   of who the hell the tall white guys were [TS]

01:05:38   it's an NBA team when i get their [TS]

01:05:40   civilization crumble due to overuse of [TS]

01:05:43   resources and infighting and but then [TS]

01:05:45   who were these little brown guys why are [TS]

01:05:47   they not the tall white guys [TS]

01:05:49   why do they have to keep walking to the [TS]

01:05:50   mountain why do they get spewed out [TS]

01:05:52   immediately thereafter I can be only [TS]

01:05:53   sing i just want some answers dammit [TS]

01:05:55   that's all [TS]

01:05:56   during the whole progression I went [TS]

01:05:58   through a couple of different [TS]

01:05:59   interpretations of what was happening [TS]

01:06:00   like whether this was like there was a [TS]

01:06:03   point where I was sort of wondering well [TS]

01:06:04   is this less of a like God like a you [TS]

01:06:08   know God disciple relationship in [TS]

01:06:10   somewhere like a you know monk or [TS]

01:06:12   aesthetics I've thing and more of like a [TS]

01:06:14   parent-child relationship because I [TS]

01:06:17   almost felt like those scenes where you [TS]

01:06:18   where you sit down from the monolith and [TS]

01:06:20   you meditate and the person appears to I [TS]

01:06:22   it almost felt it looks like a mother [TS]

01:06:24   doesn't it yeah exactly almost maternal [TS]

01:06:26   certainly like you're trying really hard [TS]

01:06:29   let me help you i'm gonna sort of give [TS]

01:06:30   you this little push along in that you [TS]

01:06:32   know you will get to the end and that [TS]

01:06:33   will be your like a rite of passage [TS]

01:06:34   essentially that is in that was I kind [TS]

01:06:37   of went back and forth between that and [TS]

01:06:38   a more sort of spiritual interpretation [TS]

01:06:41   the other thing I could come up with was [TS]

01:06:42   that this was this was punishment for [TS]

01:06:44   the transgressions of the tall white [TS]

01:06:45   people that had been converted into [TS]

01:06:47   small brown people with stumpy scarfs [TS]

01:06:50   that that had to continue to make this [TS]

01:06:52   journey over and over again and relive [TS]

01:06:54   the horrors of their lost civilization [TS]

01:06:57   because there really wasn't any kind of [TS]

01:07:00   other additional explanation for that [TS]

01:07:01   and that was that was the other side of [TS]

01:07:03   that is that I felt it was more like you [TS]

01:07:05   were struggling to redeem these [TS]

01:07:08   following people and your LED in this [TS]

01:07:10   journey to redeem these people by the [TS]

01:07:12   spiritual advisors / that's why I like [TS]

01:07:13   it the various points they show like [TS]

01:07:15   here like this showing the murals and [TS]

01:07:16   everything and they show and they're [TS]

01:07:18   they're red they're not brown that you [TS]

01:07:20   need to adjust your TV show they show [TS]

01:07:23   they know this mirror then they show and [TS]

01:07:25   then a lone figure in red with little [TS]

01:07:26   glowy heart thing like you are three [TS]

01:07:28   your heroics in your journey you are [TS]

01:07:30   attempting to redeem these fallen people [TS]

01:07:32   through your efforts it's like you know [TS]

01:07:34   it's I don't want to make the analogy [TS]

01:07:36   that then I can take him it's very [TS]

01:07:37   similar to another popular series and [TS]

01:07:40   you know Joseph Campbell the whole nine [TS]

01:07:42   yards right [TS]

01:07:43   but i didn't spend too much time [TS]

01:07:44   worrying about like a ward of the [TS]

01:07:46   details of the thing and the plot like [TS]

01:07:47   that because i was just i sold on the [TS]

01:07:50   emotional journey and the emotional [TS]

01:07:52   content i felt like that made a perfect [TS]

01:07:55   circle and linked right back together [TS]

01:07:57   and was just a solid beautiful ring and [TS]

01:07:59   I'd I was again and getting it [TS]

01:08:01   disengaging the game reports i would [TS]

01:08:02   disengage from like but who are the red [TS]

01:08:05   people and with how why did they build [TS]

01:08:07   these machines and what was their [TS]

01:08:08   technology based on and why is that [TS]

01:08:09   fabric is this earth and all these [TS]

01:08:10   people and is my character [TS]

01:08:12   male or female all that was gone because [TS]

01:08:14   it's not important like it's like it [TS]

01:08:15   it's not really an allegory but like [TS]

01:08:17   that you know a fantasy Taylor fable [TS]

01:08:20   because at the end you just realize that [TS]

01:08:22   you were jealous [TS]

01:08:23   oh yeah OT me alright well can we at [TS]

01:08:26   least agree that the people are Auburn [TS]

01:08:28   other without if you had to pick a [TS]

01:08:31   primary color on the red but I i admit [TS]

01:08:34   that i grinned i grinned pretty much ear [TS]

01:08:37   to ear while I was playing the game it [TS]

01:08:39   was only after it ended that I was a [TS]

01:08:40   little bit disappointed and they were [TS]

01:08:41   they were because i don't want and what [TS]

01:08:43   was your ending did you go with [TS]

01:08:45   how long were you with a companion and [TS]

01:08:47   did you end with them those are personal [TS]

01:08:48   questions Mike my companion dropped off [TS]

01:08:51   i think right around the time I entered [TS]

01:08:52   the snow [TS]

01:08:53   I for a bit but that doesn't really have [TS]

01:08:56   any kind of an impact on on on the on [TS]

01:09:00   the way I viewed the plot which was that [TS]

01:09:01   I just wanted a little more explanation [TS]

01:09:03   of of why the tall white civilization [TS]

01:09:08   had any sort of bearing on that what I [TS]

01:09:10   was going through and that's that's [TS]

01:09:12   pretty much it [TS]

01:09:13   maybe I think the only other problem I [TS]

01:09:14   had with you can always stay there more [TS]

01:09:15   ecru ok [TS]

01:09:18   the only problem I had with the game was [TS]

01:09:21   that and this is probably just the the [TS]

01:09:24   gamer in me talking but to me as epic as [TS]

01:09:29   the game felt like i was experiencing it [TS]

01:09:30   when i got to the end I felt like it was [TS]

01:09:33   just a little too short and a little too [TS]

01:09:35   easy to be truly epic mean it took me [TS]

01:09:38   maybe an hour and a quarter hour and a [TS]

01:09:40   half to get through the whole thing and [TS]

01:09:42   corresponding rate while it lasted but [TS]

01:09:45   when I got to the end I was like that [TS]

01:09:46   really wasn't a lot of work you have to [TS]

01:09:48   think of it from a non gamers [TS]

01:09:50   perspective because like a first wife [TS]

01:09:52   why do I have to think of it for my own [TS]

01:09:53   gamers perspective why can't i have a [TS]

01:09:55   little bit of difficulty that that I'm [TS]

01:09:57   not asking for a lot of not asking for [TS]

01:09:59   you know ghouls and ghosts or something [TS]

01:10:02   i'm just saying that you need the [TS]

01:10:03   journey hard mode where you have to like [TS]

01:10:05   you get hit by dragons over and over [TS]

01:10:06   again you gotta grind like my graphic [TS]

01:10:09   you gotta kill that dragon to the [TS]

01:10:10   beginning yeah you know at the end I [TS]

01:10:12   just felt like I would have been a lot [TS]

01:10:13   more satisfied if there had just been [TS]

01:10:17   some difficulty curve there was not and [TS]

01:10:20   I mean and the point at which the dragon [TS]

01:10:22   hit me and there were no repercussions [TS]

01:10:24   and I at the point i didn't realize that [TS]

01:10:26   the scarf and shorter scarf it's a big [TS]

01:10:28   it's a big repercussions if you don't [TS]

01:10:30   mind a long time building up that scar [TS]

01:10:32   that's right and I'm I'm not as obsessed [TS]

01:10:34   with a link with my scarf is John [TS]

01:10:36   siracusa apparently is so to me it was [TS]

01:10:38   not a big deal even when I did find that [TS]

01:10:39   out but that drained all the tension out [TS]

01:10:43   of the game for me and and again I still [TS]

01:10:46   loved it as i was playing it's still one [TS]

01:10:47   of the most remarkable recent gaming [TS]

01:10:49   experiences I've had [TS]

01:10:51   but if it had just had a little [TS]

01:10:54   difficulty to it i think it would have [TS]

01:10:56   been that much that much better for me [TS]

01:10:58   to see the linear nature of the game i [TS]

01:11:01   was talking about the cues and [TS]

01:11:02   everything lined up it's really [TS]

01:11:03   difficult to get the cues and everything [TS]

01:11:05   to line up into a magical seamless [TS]

01:11:07   experience that the artist intended with [TS]

01:11:10   you participating in and making it [TS]

01:11:11   happen if there's any grinding sections [TS]

01:11:14   if there's had to do stuff over and it [TS]

01:11:15   is I i agree that it's a very different [TS]

01:11:17   in many ways less satisfying experience [TS]

01:11:19   them for example playing zelda game for [TS]

01:11:21   70 hours and finally finishing it like [TS]

01:11:23   that is a totally different like you've [TS]

01:11:25   gone from like a little whelp with with [TS]

01:11:27   a wooden shield to like mastering this [TS]

01:11:29   world over the course of such a huge [TS]

01:11:30   amount of time that is a totally [TS]

01:11:32   different experience I i think this game [TS]

01:11:33   as a different type of genre kind of you [TS]

01:11:36   know it's like journey ego Zelda like [TS]

01:11:39   that's the continuum or journey is like [TS]

01:11:41   the smallest bite-sized thing you can [TS]

01:11:43   have an idea if the emotional experience [TS]

01:11:46   hadn't paid off me I'll be like me is [TS]

01:11:48   all right you know there wasn't a [TS]

01:11:49   challenge didn't engage me in terms of [TS]

01:11:51   like feeling I've achieved something [TS]

01:11:53   about being a game but because it sucked [TS]

01:11:55   me and so much and because i went [TS]

01:11:57   through that experience land we got out [TS]

01:11:59   of game mode [TS]

01:12:00   I appreciate it completely and I end up [TS]

01:12:02   in hindsight I appreciate the fact that [TS]

01:12:04   it didn't throw any challenges my way [TS]

01:12:05   because I think being frustrated not [TS]

01:12:08   being able to make a jump or something [TS]

01:12:09   having really any difficulty whatsoever [TS]

01:12:10   would have changed the experience for me [TS]

01:12:13   in a way that we're taking away from [TS]

01:12:15   what I want to get out of the game [TS]

01:12:16   why would have accepted a longer game [TS]

01:12:18   two I mean it's just it's it's either [TS]

01:12:20   some some difficulty which would have [TS]

01:12:22   drawn it out a little bit just by virtue [TS]

01:12:24   of having to solve a problem or maybe a [TS]

01:12:27   little bit i love of greater length as a [TS]

01:12:31   non-gamer I I viewed it almost as a [TS]

01:12:33   playable movie where it's about to [TS]

01:12:36   everybody much it yet i agree and we in [TS]

01:12:38   there there were problems to be solved [TS]

01:12:41   but you're right they're not [TS]

01:12:42   particularly difficult at the same time [TS]

01:12:45   there's a great advantage to having a [TS]

01:12:46   game that you don't get to someplace and [TS]

01:12:50   get stuck and end up having to like look [TS]

01:12:52   up things on the internet because you're [TS]

01:12:54   so frustrated and you want to just turn [TS]

01:12:56   it off because you're so mad and instead [TS]

01:12:58   you know we had to figure it out but we [TS]

01:13:00   could fairly quickly move around and [TS]

01:13:02   figure out how you touch these things [TS]

01:13:04   and then this thing happens and then you [TS]

01:13:05   move over there and you know I i can see [TS]

01:13:08   the the idea that maybe you would want [TS]

01:13:11   to have it be optionally a little harder [TS]

01:13:13   to harder to do or go on a little longer [TS]

01:13:16   but i have to say from the very casual [TS]

01:13:18   perspective of having a kind of to our [TS]

01:13:20   it somewhat interactive experience but [TS]

01:13:22   not like super difficult that that is [TS]

01:13:26   that's what it was for us and I thought [TS]

01:13:28   it actually worked out pretty well [TS]

01:13:30   although we haven't played it again and [TS]

01:13:32   I I admit I kind of didn't notice things [TS]

01:13:34   in the game that and I've earned my [TS]

01:13:37   little yellow him i guess on the bottom [TS]

01:13:39   of my robe so I should probably play it [TS]

01:13:41   again i have to say that as a big gamer [TS]

01:13:45   basically i play a lot of video games i [TS]

01:13:47   really appreciated it for for not being [TS]

01:13:50   like all the other games I play it's [TS]

01:13:52   kind of like the way that I really like [TS]

01:13:53   comic books but i really appreciate that [TS]

01:13:55   not every comic book is about [TS]

01:13:56   superheroes or I really like music I [TS]

01:13:59   mean I actually thought about lessons [TS]

01:14:00   like an interactive movie and more like [TS]

01:14:01   a visual interactive album in a way [TS]

01:14:04   because it felt like that sort of [TS]

01:14:06   experience that emotional rollercoaster [TS]

01:14:08   that you get when you listen to an album [TS]

01:14:10   that's designed to be an album you know [TS]

01:14:12   and I I didn't mind that it was short [TS]

01:14:15   because of that in mind that wasn't [TS]

01:14:17   challenging because I wouldn't I [TS]

01:14:19   wouldn't for a game like this i don't [TS]

01:14:21   think it needs extra challenge any more [TS]

01:14:24   than a really good album needs extra [TS]

01:14:26   guitars or extra violins or whatever [TS]

01:14:29   because it's just that one of many [TS]

01:14:30   components that go into making a really [TS]

01:14:33   great aesthetic experience you know it i [TS]

01:14:37   feel like my time is really valuable and [TS]

01:14:40   I would love for them to be more really [TS]

01:14:42   short aesthetically amazing games like [TS]

01:14:44   this and like portal you know [TS]

01:14:46   yeah i would like it if you have to [TS]

01:14:49   trade the two hours that you play [TS]

01:14:50   journey for two hours of any other game [TS]

01:14:52   I this journey is the best two hours of [TS]

01:14:54   game i have ever played if I had traded [TS]

01:14:56   for a two to get something compete with [TS]

01:14:58   that I had to say like eko eko is is a [TS]

01:15:00   better game than journey because it has [TS]

01:15:03   similar highs but is longer and is more [TS]

01:15:04   of a you know a challenging game but [TS]

01:15:06   there's no two hours we go that's good [TS]

01:15:08   to the two hours of journey and I think [TS]

01:15:09   interactive movie gets a bad rap is like [TS]

01:15:11   I was like a bunch of QuickTime events [TS]

01:15:13   and I playing dragon lair of a laserdisc [TS]

01:15:14   like that's totally not what journey I [TS]

01:15:16   don't fact that it can seem like that is [TS]

01:15:19   because they are straight it so well but [TS]

01:15:20   if you play it over and over again you [TS]

01:15:22   start to see where the seams are and you [TS]

01:15:23   can see how they constructed this thing [TS]

01:15:25   but the journey the thing about it not [TS]

01:15:27   being like dragon's lair is that the [TS]

01:15:29   world here some fashion of gamers [TS]

01:15:31   they're like oh I'm so glad it and get [TS]

01:15:32   stuck believe me [TS]

01:15:33   most of the world cannot finish journey [TS]

01:15:35   and and would spend this entire time [TS]

01:15:36   having no idea what the heck to do that [TS]

01:15:39   this is rewarding us letting us [TS]

01:15:40   participate in creating art ourselves [TS]

01:15:43   through the skills that we've acquired [TS]

01:15:44   by subverting our conventions and making [TS]

01:15:47   us participate in that way it's not like [TS]

01:15:48   listening it to an album because we are [TS]

01:15:50   making it happen to our own choices and [TS]

01:15:52   our own skills and our own expertise and [TS]

01:15:54   yet this doesn't maybe stretch our [TS]

01:15:56   expertise and skills because they're so [TS]

01:15:57   home from you know again playing [TS]

01:15:59   explained through every mario game [TS]

01:16:00   getting you know a hundred percent [TS]

01:16:01   completion way harder than this game [TS]

01:16:03   right up and so this is just kind of [TS]

01:16:05   like take your skills that you have and [TS]

01:16:07   use them to give yourself a beautiful [TS]

01:16:09   experiences two hours long and I think [TS]

01:16:10   the reason we got so many people on this [TS]

01:16:12   podcast is I can't have you all [TS]

01:16:14   playthrough twilight princess would net [TS]

01:16:15   you would never you know finished take [TS]

01:16:17   forever right but we can all play it to [TS]

01:16:19   our game and that's the thing i love [TS]

01:16:20   about this game as I can take it to [TS]

01:16:22   people and say you want to watch a movie [TS]

01:16:23   or two hours we'll have a game and you [TS]

01:16:25   can finish the whole game in two hours [TS]

01:16:26   and this hopefully will show you [TS]

01:16:28   something of gaming that you can it will [TS]

01:16:31   help you to understand why people like [TS]

01:16:33   video games right i really wanted to sit [TS]

01:16:35   down with my wife and and play this are [TS]

01:16:37   at least have her plate and watching she [TS]

01:16:38   did it because I she's not a gamer she's [TS]

01:16:41   not a geek she's not somebody who does [TS]

01:16:44   much at all gaming wise other than mock [TS]

01:16:47   me for being a gamer and so you got to [TS]

01:16:49   do with Steve it'll strengthen your [TS]

01:16:51   marriage i'm saying i guess my guarantee [TS]

01:16:53   this is the perfect example I think of [TS]

01:16:56   of it is kind of a bite-sized example of [TS]

01:16:59   why i am a gamer and why I find certain [TS]

01:17:02   things like the longer games like that [TS]

01:17:04   the Zelda's and the more wins to be as [TS]

01:17:07   compelling as they are and this is just [TS]

01:17:08   kind of a tiny little microcosm of of [TS]

01:17:11   the sort of feeling I get playing a [TS]

01:17:13   truly epic game and and so I really [TS]

01:17:15   appreciate it for being that it's a poem [TS]

01:17:18   not a novel i wish there were more games [TS]

01:17:20   that were this length though I honestly [TS]

01:17:23   as somebody who doesn't play a lot of [TS]

01:17:25   games [TS]

01:17:26   I you know we will get I've got some mac [TS]

01:17:29   games and I've got the we have a wii for [TS]

01:17:30   the kids and the kids loved it but these [TS]

01:17:32   games that that are I can't tell you how [TS]

01:17:34   many games i bought over the years that [TS]

01:17:35   I've never even come close to finish not [TS]

01:17:38   because i can't play them but because [TS]

01:17:40   I'm never gonna invest 30 hours in a [TS]

01:17:43   game just never i'm never gonna do it I [TS]

01:17:45   it would take I mean I finished portal [TS]

01:17:47   i'm trying to think of what what long [TS]

01:17:50   linear game i finished before that [TS]

01:17:52   marathon to mean it long ago right but [TS]

01:17:55   two hours or or even something like four [TS]

01:17:58   hours but but you know the idea that I [TS]

01:18:00   could because john told me I could sit [TS]

01:18:03   down for an evening with a game like I [TS]

01:18:06   would do with a movie and not feel like [TS]

01:18:08   what am I getting myself into I'm gonna [TS]

01:18:10   you know have to fit through 15 20 40 [TS]

01:18:12   hours at it [TS]

01:18:13   that was a great feeling and I wish [TS]

01:18:15   there was more of that I wish there was [TS]

01:18:17   more of you know i'm not making a [TS]

01:18:19   lifetime commitment here i'm committing [TS]

01:18:21   like I would be to renting a movie i [TS]

01:18:23   think the length is perfect i mean i [TS]

01:18:25   think unfortunately a lot of games that [TS]

01:18:26   sell for full price in a fifty or sixty [TS]

01:18:28   dollars [TS]

01:18:28   um you see games they're like padded [TS]

01:18:30   right like they need to be 10 hours and [TS]

01:18:32   there's not 10 hours of good and you [TS]

01:18:35   gotta backtrack through the level and [TS]

01:18:36   collect the bulletin [TS]

01:18:37   I think right zelda winwaker was the one [TS]

01:18:39   that like basically offended [TS]

01:18:41   at that level i means LOL winwaker is [TS]

01:18:42   really good how you know how dare you [TS]

01:18:44   but there's like there's like four hours [TS]

01:18:46   of riding your boat back and forth in [TS]

01:18:47   order to make it a 10 hour game could [TS]

01:18:49   have a whole other show about winwaker I [TS]

01:18:51   like that other six hours is great they [TS]

01:18:52   should've they should've made that first [TS]

01:18:54   lesson not so many boat rides I i like [TS]

01:18:58   the boats the ocean looks great but you [TS]

01:18:59   spend you spend twenty-five percent of [TS]

01:19:02   your time riding around in a boat right [TS]

01:19:04   that's a cool boat gonna but it's not [TS]

01:19:08   for our school is not to journey school [TS]

01:19:11   I'd actually just like to apologize to [TS]

01:19:14   anybody who actually listens to this [TS]

01:19:16   whole podcast despite the disclaimer at [TS]

01:19:17   the beginning and is now like we should [TS]

01:19:19   play this tourney game for everyone did [TS]

01:19:23   four years [TS]

01:19:23   no it's still good Jason it's still good [TS]

01:19:26   it's still good but I feel like so much [TS]

01:19:27   of an joy of discovery so sorry you mean [TS]

01:19:30   the time you spent wasting your life [TS]

01:19:32   listening to this podcast you could have [TS]

01:19:33   played put all the plaster falls at John [TS]

01:19:39   do you have any final thoughts before we [TS]

01:19:41   wrap up our conversation about journey [TS]

01:19:43   did we did we meet your expectations as [TS]

01:19:45   fellow participants fellow travelers in [TS]

01:19:48   this journey I think we had a good range [TS]

01:19:50   of experiences it may be what would help [TS]

01:19:53   us have one actual non-gamer in the mix [TS]

01:19:57   bigger on I gotta say I'm really close [TS]

01:19:59   to that would happen if you did it if [TS]

01:20:01   you didn't you don't understand the [TS]

01:20:03   range of the spectrum here like I had my [TS]

01:20:05   wife played and she is more of a [TS]

01:20:06   non-gamer and that they're like I said [TS]

01:20:08   there are people who can literally can [TS]

01:20:10   write finish this game without serious [TS]

01:20:12   help because they they don't get any of [TS]

01:20:14   the signals the game is telling them and [TS]

01:20:15   even once you explained it they can't [TS]

01:20:17   they can't control the little guy and [TS]

01:20:18   that still is a little bit of a shame [TS]

01:20:21   that people can experience it can [TS]

01:20:23   appreciate it but I would like to [TS]

01:20:24   someone who's like I thought it was fun [TS]

01:20:25   and it was interesting but I got to a [TS]

01:20:27   certain point and then I didn't know [TS]

01:20:28   what to do or I couldn't do it I [TS]

01:20:30   couldn't get my little guy too jump I [TS]

01:20:32   didn't understand how I could progress I [TS]

01:20:33   think you'd have to be pretty [TS]

01:20:35   I I guess what I'd say is I I think you [TS]

01:20:37   have to be pretty game illiterate to not [TS]

01:20:39   because I mean my wife is play [TS]

01:20:41   playthrough like like I said like tomb [TS]

01:20:43   raider one and two on the pole original [TS]

01:20:45   playstation and so she took to it [TS]

01:20:47   immediately she had a better she had an [TS]

01:20:49   easier time of it than I did but [TS]

01:20:51   honestly my five-year-old got through [TS]

01:20:53   about half of it before you got [TS]

01:20:54   wouldn't turn it off yeah so with a a [TS]

01:20:56   bit of the most basic of you know [TS]

01:20:59   controller knowledge above the Atari [TS]

01:21:01   2600 joystick you know just the basic [TS]

01:21:05   kind of knowledge I i think i think the [TS]

01:21:08   bars pretty low i think yes if you're [TS]

01:21:09   somebody who doesn't understand that you [TS]

01:21:11   can move the camera and that you can [TS]

01:21:12   move a guy around on the screen [TS]

01:21:14   that's true but it wasn't you know there [TS]

01:21:16   have been games that i've i've played [TS]

01:21:18   and thought oh my god these controls are [TS]

01:21:19   so hard and I just never journey it was [TS]

01:21:22   like I had a fundamental knowledge of [TS]

01:21:24   how to move around in a game world and [TS]

01:21:26   that was all I needed and I think the [TS]

01:21:28   journey is unique in this regard because [TS]

01:21:31   i believe it's really it's like an [TS]

01:21:33   expert's game like the better you are [TS]

01:21:36   games i think the more you can get out [TS]

01:21:38   of the experience because everything [TS]

01:21:40   related to the game completely falls [TS]

01:21:42   away and you get to just experienced a [TS]

01:21:44   story you're not worried about systems [TS]

01:21:46   you it makes you forget about [TS]

01:21:47   collectibles and all your gaming stuff [TS]

01:21:49   and your purely like enjoying like this [TS]

01:21:52   the skills required like this you can do [TS]

01:21:54   this game play this game with some [TS]

01:21:55   panache with that little guy right [TS]

01:21:57   I being able to like strut your stuff [TS]

01:21:59   and take you know in this sort of kinder [TS]

01:22:02   gentler world and appreciate it as a [TS]

01:22:04   piece of art you need some so many basic [TS]

01:22:07   basic skills need to be unconscious like [TS]

01:22:08   driving a car we can just like listen to [TS]

01:22:10   a podcast or music and you're not [TS]

01:22:11   thinking about driving as much because [TS]

01:22:13   you've been driving for years and years [TS]

01:22:14   and it's just unconscious [TS]

01:22:15   that's the experienced gamers have [TS]

01:22:17   playing this game but its scales down so [TS]

01:22:19   well but at a certain point I feel like [TS]

01:22:21   it falls off and now now you're playing [TS]

01:22:23   the game not experiencing the game i [TS]

01:22:27   think now you're now you're wrestling [TS]

01:22:28   with the control in your hand to make a [TS]

01:22:30   guy do something and you're off on a [TS]

01:22:31   different track but the range of journey [TS]

01:22:33   i think is great but I think the reason [TS]

01:22:35   i appreciated all gamers are going gaga [TS]

01:22:37   for its like you go before us because it [TS]

01:22:39   plays against conventions and it rewards [TS]

01:22:41   you rewards you for all the time and [TS]

01:22:45   energy you put into video games in your [TS]

01:22:47   entire life by giving you this [TS]

01:22:48   transcendent experience that maybe is [TS]

01:22:51   not quite as transcendent if you hadn't [TS]

01:22:53   wasted your life playing video games [TS]

01:22:55   also it's a great game to play after [TS]

01:22:57   about six beers haha don't need any [TS]

01:23:00   doing any actual manual dexterity and [TS]

01:23:05   that's that I find that's a lot easier [TS]

01:23:06   to put away my desire to go find all of [TS]

01:23:09   the symbols [TS]

01:23:09   yeah and go back uphill as I'm sliding [TS]

01:23:11   down to find the one that i missed it [TS]

01:23:13   that ruins it if you're stopping oh I [TS]

01:23:15   gotta go back up the hill to get [TS]

01:23:16   assembled you're not playing the game [TS]

01:23:18   the way that the creators intended to do [TS]

01:23:20   second playthrough third playthrough [TS]

01:23:21   find first playthrough they want you to [TS]

01:23:22   roll and that is why six beers is [TS]

01:23:24   perfect i did enjoy the sliding sliding [TS]

01:23:27   on the sand [TS]

01:23:28   yeah when you figure out you can do that [TS]

01:23:30   it's a lot of fun because it's fun and [TS]

01:23:32   the music picked up but it's like yeah [TS]

01:23:33   we're sliding around on the same screen [TS]

01:23:35   but that's the great video with the [TS]

01:23:37   megaman think showing you how you know [TS]

01:23:38   like they showed you how the game will [TS]

01:23:40   progress like so the beginning you could [TS]

01:23:41   climb uphill journey and you go on the [TS]

01:23:43   other side you slide a little bit not a [TS]

01:23:44   lot you just slide a little bit to [TS]

01:23:45   establish the fact that when you go down [TS]

01:23:47   how you can slide like they say so [TS]

01:23:49   creeped you up on it and like by the [TS]

01:23:50   time you get the payoff of the level you [TS]

01:23:52   get to slide the whole time I can I did [TS]

01:23:54   some sliding before and it was kind of [TS]

01:23:56   fun but it was stopped at the bottom of [TS]

01:23:57   my scarf short but now it's a i love it [TS]

01:24:00   14 15 15 bucks I thought not a bad not a [TS]

01:24:04   bad deal [TS]

01:24:05   I think totally worth it for for uh for [TS]

01:24:08   that experience I think we have a good [TS]

01:24:09   time and I think we'll probably play it [TS]

01:24:10   again before we return the borrowed [TS]

01:24:13   playstation back to its original owner [TS]

01:24:15   with a copy of journey on it so they can [TS]

01:24:17   unite we really ought to get ahold of [TS]

01:24:19   eco shadows of the Colossus collection [TS]

01:24:22   before you do that and give that ago [TS]

01:24:24   because that's that's the next logical [TS]

01:24:25   step up I can do everybody already [TS]

01:24:27   played portal so it's like a portal slot [TS]

01:24:29   somewhere in there so yeah you goes the [TS]

01:24:31   next one shot of the classes may be too [TS]

01:24:32   much for you at the end that starts to [TS]

01:24:34   go into real too much for me a John and [TS]

01:24:36   is the challenge of classes you can [TS]

01:24:38   happen if you try to place you have [TS]

01:24:40   classes drunk you will maybe not google [TS]

01:24:43   challenge accepted 2 Steve you can't [TS]

01:24:46   handle the Colossus first first five or [TS]

01:24:49   six drunk fine but at a certain point [TS]

01:24:51   you're like our is over up against these [TS]

01:24:53   guys kill me this game is intended do [TS]

01:24:55   not operate heavy machinery or play [TS]

01:24:58   shadow of the colossus that should be [TS]

01:25:00   something the ESRB puts on the boxes [TS]

01:25:01   from now on a recommended number of [TS]

01:25:03   beers to imbibe which games can you play [TS]

01:25:05   drunk yours just doesn't have little [TS]

01:25:07   icons of how many beers you should drink [TS]

01:25:09   I played max payne 4american don't [TS]

01:25:11   recommend that dark dark souls also [TS]

01:25:14   maybe don't play that drunk [TS]

01:25:16   I want to come back for the shadow of [TS]

01:25:18   colossus drunken episode will be later [TS]

01:25:21   yeah it's more alert you can die and [TS]

01:25:24   child look like oh let's see [TS]

01:25:26   ok I did I i did post on Twitter right [TS]

01:25:29   after I played it something about how a [TS]

01:25:30   dragon ate my scarf and John's only [TS]

01:25:32   response was spoilers seriously nobody [TS]

01:25:35   was gonna understand that you sweating [TS]

01:25:38   the whole game I dragon my scars the [TS]

01:25:40   whole game right there yeah give away [TS]

01:25:41   the whole game that is the the ultimate [TS]

01:25:43   the the most emotional emotional point [TS]

01:25:45   entire game he was going to drag myself [TS]

01:25:47   john is a scarf obsessive those who have [TS]

01:25:49   been anything other than a scarf related [TS]

01:25:50   item he probably would have let it slide [TS]

01:25:52   alright well i think this has been great [TS]

01:25:55   and I want to thank everybody for coming [TS]

01:25:56   tonight Steve let's thank you for giving [TS]

01:25:59   us your perspective on how many beers it [TS]

01:26:01   takes to enjoy journey we sailed on [TS]

01:26:03   together we drifted apart and here you [TS]

01:26:06   are by my side Jason on the [TS]

01:26:08   award-winning incomparable podcast [TS]

01:26:10   that's right so now you come to me with [TS]

01:26:12   open arms [TS]

01:26:13   nothing to hide believe what I say I [TS]

01:26:17   Tony sindelar thank you for being here [TS]

01:26:20   and uh the wheel in the sky keeps on [TS]

01:26:24   turning for you too [TS]

01:26:25   it's not about the destination Jason [TS]

01:26:27   it's about the journey [TS]

01:26:28   oh ho that's it's so true Dan Morgan [TS]

01:26:31   someday love will find you break those [TS]

01:26:35   chains that bind you [TS]

01:26:36   I i really liked journal this game it [TS]

01:26:39   was a lot of weight attorney and Jason [TS]

01:26:42   tachi rhymes with Bochy uh thank you for [TS]

01:26:45   being here it's great to have you back [TS]

01:26:46   on the show and thanks for having me was [TS]

01:26:50   great and of course the man who is the [TS]

01:26:52   reason we're all here John siracusa who [TS]

01:26:55   I've been listening to talk about this [TS]

01:26:57   game for so long and it was great i want [TS]

01:27:00   to thank all you guys for actually going [TS]

01:27:01   out and borrowing a Playstation and me [TS]

01:27:03   berating you to say it's not so bad you [TS]

01:27:05   can play this to our game i hope you got [TS]

01:27:07   out of it [TS]

01:27:08   enjoyment it was worth the hassle of you [TS]

01:27:10   know finding something and like for me I [TS]

01:27:13   bought by bought this PlayStation 2 2nd [TS]

01:27:16   to last guardian which now is in dev [TS]

01:27:17   hell and it's depressing right but i'm [TS]

01:27:19   willing to buy a four-hundred-dollar [TS]

01:27:20   console and pay fifteen dollars for game [TS]

01:27:23   just for that two hours entertainment [TS]

01:27:25   but i understand that everyone else's [TS]

01:27:26   value system it [TS]

01:27:27   I appreciate everybody I going out of [TS]

01:27:30   their way to do and i hope i hope you've [TS]

01:27:32   learned a valuable lesson [TS]

01:27:33   what games can do for you especially [TS]

01:27:35   valuable lesson about move chain which [TS]

01:27:37   is excellent way to yeah I wish this [TS]

01:27:39   game was available on other devices and [TS]

01:27:41   platforms maybe someday it will be yeah [TS]

01:27:44   I despise the playstation controller as [TS]

01:27:46   well documented my own podcast so I am [TS]

01:27:48   NOT a platform parson but I go where the [TS]

01:27:50   content this critical [TS]

01:27:53   yeah it was great it was worth it was [TS]

01:27:54   worth mooching a playstation 3 in order [TS]

01:27:57   to plant so thanks for suggesting John [TS]

01:27:59   and thanks everybody for listening we [TS]

01:28:02   should do more video game shows [TS]

01:28:03   I think don't you great should i [TS]

01:28:05   absolutely I agree until the next [TS]

01:28:07   edition of the uncomfortable podcast in [TS]

01:28:09   our next video game edition which [TS]

01:28:10   hopefully won't be too long in the [TS]

01:28:12   future this is jason sell for the [TS]

01:28:14   uncomfortable thanks everybody for [TS]

01:28:15   listening [TS]

01:28:16   goodbye [TS]

01:28:17   [Music] [TS]

01:28:24   [Music] [TS]

01:28:33   [Music] [TS]

01:28:48   some some will win some lose some are [TS]

01:28:52   born to single want to sing the blues [TS]

01:28:53   that's right the movie never ends it [TS]

01:28:57   goes on also the on and on and on and on [TS]

01:28:59   and returns you back to the beginning [TS]

01:29:00   and then you do it not [TS]

01:29:02   na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na now na na [TS]

01:29:06   nananana nananana so this is sort of [TS]

01:29:10   dorky over here but can I make a [TS]

01:29:12   suggestion from of a title from journey [TS]

01:29:14   lyrics that i think is about the game [TS]

01:29:16   journey [TS]

01:29:17   yes it's true then we touch then we sang [TS]

01:29:20   from anywhere you want yeah then we [TS]

01:29:24   touch then we sang that's pretty good [TS]

01:29:26   poop ball [TS]