The Incomparable

100: Who Cares What We Think?

 

  the incomparable podcast number 100 [TS]

  delight well well [TS]

  it's the incomparable podcast I'm your [TS]

  host Jason L this is a very special [TS]

  edition of the uncomfortable and that is [TS]

  episode number 100 [TS]

  it's a lie i feel like this is a huge [TS]

  milestone other than the fact that you [TS]

  know we just do a podcast every week and [TS]

  in less than two years you are at [TS]

  episode 100 but we use a base-10 [TS]

  counting system and 100 a milestone so [TS]

  I've caught I've gathered together to [TS]

  celebrate episode number 100 the five [TS]

  panelists on the incomparable who have [TS]

  been on the most episodes of this show [TS]

  they are the core members of the [TS]

  incomparable panel and i'm going to [TS]

  introduce them in order of their their [TS]

  appearances their number of appearances [TS]

  on the show by the way i should say I'm [TS]

  Jason Snell who has appeared on 90 of [TS]

  the 100 episodes of the uncomfortable so [TS]

  one in ten you don't have to listen to [TS]

  me but if two-thirds 68 episodes of the [TS]

  incomparable have featured the man who's [TS]

  on every podcast damn Ouran High Dam I i [TS]

  was told there would be no math well I'm [TS]

  do i did the math for you [TS]

  oh well that's that's well Jason I [TS]

  appreciate it's good to be here as I am [TS]

  contractually obligated to be on every [TS]

  podcast yes or at least two-thirds of [TS]

  the incomparable podcast that's a writer [TS]

  that we attach later my agent had some [TS]

  concerns i love [TS]

  also joining me is a serenity caldwell [TS]

  who has appeared on exactly half of the [TS]

  episodes of the uncomfortable 50 of me [TS]

  100 welcome 50 whole episodes i would [TS]

  say this feels like a milestone Jason [TS]

  accepted it feels like a podcast which [TS]

  is pretty much like every other podcast [TS]

  pretty much a little hotter today [TS]

  yeah that's that's about right also [TS]

  joining me Scott McNulty who has [TS]

  appeared on 49 of 100 podcast episodes I [TS]

  Scott so close to 50 I'm an [TS]

  underachiever the next one you'll get [TS]

  you'll get there with the next one will [TS]

  do something that is a topic that rent [TS]

  isn't interested in them then you'll be [TS]

  it you'll be on top [TS]

  John Syracuse's here he has appeared on [TS]

  43 incomparable podcast hai jaan and [TS]

  blue and I blew my long game why is it [TS]

  43 i was going [TS]

  42 what happened I don't know what this [TS]

  one counts as number 43 [TS]

  if you messed up this encounters for I [TS]

  was 42 exactly do we do we start without [TS]

  you worry [TS]

  does anyone remember now that would put [TS]

  me at 44 he's counting this episode is [TS]

  he ruined my master papermaster plant [TS]

  episode 0 is missing that Voice you [TS]

  heard is the man who's been on 38 [TS]

  episodes of the uncomfortable one flesh [TS]

  you know if you count on number 6 I'm [TS]

  number six if you count the number of [TS]

  episodes on which I'm ridiculed it gets [TS]

  closer to 80 know that's true [TS]

  oh that's very true i should also point [TS]

  out in the since we're talking [TS]

  incomparable trivia here that although [TS]

  i've hosted 19 episodes i've actually [TS]

  appeared on 93 haha because sometimes I [TS]

  appear even though i'm not the host but [TS]

  i would like to thank glen and Dan both [TS]

  of whom have hosted four episodes of the [TS]

  incomparable how is it four episodes [TS]

  yeah I memory of that long then retired [TS]

  lost amidst the time watching game after [TS]

  game hosting episode 42 and music [TS]

  episode of futurama episode at three [TS]

  you're going to them and then there's [TS]

  the light is some games did some game [TS]

  episode i remember that and I think I [TS]

  pinch-hit for you want him when you were [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah but what if you remember all there [TS]

  is the last minute I ar-15 cast yeah [TS]

  that's right yeah i recall i did a [TS]

  disaster three jason i got an important [TS]

  question for you are you counting [TS]

  additional projects such as our [TS]

  wonderful riff track episode who had no [TS]

  her know that had no host [TS]

  really [TS]

  but it did feature for members in fact [TS]

  you didn't eat your members of the panel [TS]

  that doesn't count either damn great [TS]

  nice also hosted an episode and lex [TS]

  friedman of course hosted our recent [TS]

  jonathan coulton episode as well as an [TS]

  alternate universe version of the [TS]

  incompetent that's right the fake [TS]

  episode be altered the first version so [TS]

  the purpose here the topic here and we [TS]

  and we do sort of have one that rather [TS]

  than just counting up episodes of the [TS]

  incomparable for our first hundred [TS]

  episodes is to talk about why we do the [TS]

  incomparable why is this here and I and [TS]

  i'll admit that this idea came to me as [TS]

  all my good ideas do in the shower [TS]

  because that happens and I we we ran a [TS]

  podcast a few weeks ago that was that [TS]

  dead involved some criticism of a [TS]

  blockbuster movie I'm not gonna I'm not [TS]

  gonna name any names but one of the [TS]

  panelists didn't like this beloved [TS]

  blockbuster movie and and people were [TS]

  really upset and I thought that was [TS]

  really interesting and I juxtapose that [TS]

  with a review that was posted on itunes [TS]

  around the same time from a listener who [TS]

  apparently listen to one episode but i [TS]

  think i think listeners includes Jason [TS]

  yeah I was listener that was I look [TS]

  floats for implied there who complained [TS]

  that all we ever do is praised things [TS]

  and recap what happened and not actually [TS]

  do anything more insightful than that [TS]

  well I thought that review was really [TS]

  good and here's what it said uh-huh [TS]

  I thought we would just talk about why [TS]

  we do the podcast and why we like the [TS]

  stuff we do and what's the purpose of a [TS]

  of a show like this and and you know it [TS]

  when our dear colleagues said he didn't [TS]

  like the that superhero movie and quite [TS]

  honestly if we've been doing the podcast [TS]

  a few years ago I would have said that I [TS]

  didn't like the dark knight and people [TS]

  would have freaked out about that too [TS]

  but we also do episodes where like the [TS]

  star wars episodes where although we we [TS]

  pick up things were also really just [TS]

  talking about something that we that we [TS]

  love so and then you know it goes back [TS]

  and forth then then you take something [TS]

  like the ready ready player one podcast [TS]

  where we really just kind of ripped the [TS]

  book apart i was not on that one [TS]

  the way I kind of liked that book but [TS]

  wasn't on it so my question for all of [TS]

  you guys is you know why other than your [TS]

  devotion to me I suppose [TS]

  why you know why do you like being on [TS]

  the podcast and you know what is your [TS]

  approach when when when you come on i [TS]

  mean they are you trying to be critical [TS]

  you're trying to just talk about stuff [TS]

  that you like what's the what's the [TS]

  point of it all why are we here [TS]

  John siracusa you are famous for being [TS]

  hypocritical it's our said devotion to [TS]

  this ancient macworld editor [TS]

  haha that's right it's all coming out [TS]

  now yeah I've was too i just made the [TS]

  joke when you mentioned the topic of the [TS]

  show that i was going to sue you for [TS]

  stealing the idea for of Christ lon cast [TS]

  than everything related to it because [TS]

  they are back in 2009 i wrote a blog [TS]

  post and ours back when actually blogged [TS]

  on ours the title of which was [TS]

  hypercritical which some people might [TS]

  recognized as the future title of my [TS]

  current podcast yes you appeared on the [TS]

  incomparable podcast and we're so great [TS]

  that damn Benjamin said hey he should [TS]

  have his own podcast yeah and it was [TS]

  like this was the genesis of it is that [TS]

  i wrote a thing about a bit because I [TS]

  write a lot of articles and my articles [TS]

  i complain about stuff and that like [TS]

  that's kind of like my stick right I am [TS]

  I first started doing it people would [TS]

  decide who i was based on the fact that [TS]

  I was complaining about things so here's [TS]

  this guy that never seen before and he's [TS]

  writing about apple stuff and it's full [TS]

  of complaints so this must be somebody [TS]

  who hates Apple I didn't take long to [TS]

  dispel that notion but it was kind of [TS]

  funny to me going from being the mac [TS]

  fanboy on the internet to all the sudden [TS]

  everyone saying you pc user you probably [TS]

  never used back in your life you don't [TS]

  like them why you've been writing about [TS]

  the right and so that that thing like [TS]

  where if you criticize something that [TS]

  means like you're taking sides against [TS]

  it or something was strange to me and [TS]

  funny and so that this much later [TS]

  article around uh about the idea of [TS]

  criticizing something was trying to [TS]

  explain why i personally do it and the [TS]

  value that I think there is in [TS]

  criticizing something that's kinda like [TS]

  I think that Alan cake what you know is [TS]

  that you [TS]

  Macintosh was the first computer were [TS]

  criticizing to me the things i'm most [TS]

  interested in criticizing other things [TS]

  that could have been great but weren't [TS]

  or really really good but just have one [TS]

  thing that's a little bit off you know I [TS]

  mean so i'm not inclined to do like [TS]

  entire podcast about something that I [TS]

  see no redeeming value in so for example [TS]

  we ripped apart ready player one right [TS]

  but that's a science-fiction book about [TS]

  people who go around in a video game [TS]

  world [TS]

  I like that kind of thing right on i'm [TS]

  not doing a book about I read this you [TS]

  know we didn't read 50 shades of grey [TS]

  and write like armies and we never [TS]

  planned to wait wait we didn't read that [TS]

  I mean we didn't read that [TS]

  oh yeah and it's so like it's even [TS]

  though where you know all you guys just [TS]

  like to rip apart were ripping apart [TS]

  things that we read we are interested in [TS]

  because it's like it's right up our [TS]

  alley [TS]

  I totally into books about people [TS]

  running around in a virtual video game [TS]

  world with a tease like you know it and [TS]

  that's that that's one thing that people [TS]

  don't get because if you come into it [TS]

  thinking that if you say something bad [TS]

  about that you know any piece of media [TS]

  or whatever you're taking sides against [TS]

  it and that's totally not how I view it [TS]

  yeah I i agree with that i mean i think [TS]

  that it's interesting to hear people's [TS]

  complaints about something that I liked [TS]

  and I know not lots of people don't [TS]

  react that way and we saw that after the [TS]

  Avengers podcast is that people a lot of [TS]

  people enjoyed it and then when they [TS]

  heard the criticism of that they they [TS]

  got really mad and that's fine to [TS]

  disagree but I I'm always fascinated [TS]

  when I hear somebody's complaints about [TS]

  something whether I like it or not if [TS]

  they go into some detail in it and it [TS]

  makes me and makes me think about it and [TS]

  that goes to what you said John about [TS]

  you know being the first whatever worth [TS]

  criticized thing is there is value in [TS]

  having something that's worth looking at [TS]

  critically at all and if it leads me to [TS]

  a place where I appreciate the work more [TS]

  i understand it more or I think I [TS]

  mentioned this to to it when we did the [TS]

  jonathan coulton podcast and I briefly [TS]

  got to got to talk to him i mean it i [TS]

  love the fact that when I saw inception [TS]

  I thought about it for five days and I [TS]

  thought about lots of different aspects [TS]

  of it and I decided I kind of didn't [TS]

  like it but the fact was I really am [TS]

  glad that I saw it [TS]

  was it had you know it was thought [TS]

  provoking and it was worth me that you [TS]

  know worth the time for me to think why [TS]

  don't I like this and what what's the [TS]

  detail my wife and I talked about it and [TS]

  anything with you liked it dislike I [TS]

  really think that having that ability to [TS]

  kind of take it apart and talk about why [TS]

  did it work or why did it not work is as [TS]

  valuable um you know I I'd I I don't [TS]

  have a problem that i know that some [TS]

  people that bothers some people but i [TS]

  always i love it my favorite um praise [TS]

  that i get for the uncomfortable is when [TS]

  people say I've seen that movie about [TS]

  you know I a half dozen times and had [TS]

  never thought about that seemed that way [TS]

  until you guys talked about it that way [TS]

  and i love that because it shows that [TS]

  this stuff that we love even if it's a [TS]

  sci-fi movie or you know a sci-fi book [TS]

  or whatever it is it can be enhanced by [TS]

  that kind of scrutiny whether you're [TS]

  loving it or whether you're pointing out [TS]

  that the latter on the x-wing doesn't [TS]

  have anyplace to go it's still [TS]

  interesting well nobody likes to hear [TS]

  something that they really like just get [TS]

  trashed i mean i think that we all you [TS]

  know if there's something you're really [TS]

  passionate about is something you really [TS]

  care about or book you really like a [TS]

  movie that you love [TS]

  it's no fun to hear somebody else just [TS]

  like trash it right i mean there there's [TS]

  a way I think it which is what John is [TS]

  saying there is a way to look at these [TS]

  things critically and say this is good [TS]

  but here are some you know criticisms or [TS]

  or you know things that I've noticed [TS]

  that perhaps you haven't thought about [TS]

  and I think there is value in that I [TS]

  also you know I think there's a value in [TS]

  talking positively about these kind of [TS]

  works as even in cases where you feel [TS]

  like you want to be critical because [TS]

  there are things that bothered you about [TS]

  it it's worthwhile to say what you liked [TS]

  about things not only because I think we [TS]

  all are in part here because we enjoy [TS]

  sharing things that we like with other [TS]

  people who we think might like them but [TS]

  also because i don't know for me someone [TS]

  who has spent time you know trying to [TS]

  create something it's nice to feel like [TS]

  there are people behind it's nice to be [TS]

  remembered that there are people behind [TS]

  these things right and these people in [TS]

  many cases are trying very hard to [TS]

  accomplish [TS]

  think they're not always you know [TS]

  nailing it perfectly but you know these [TS]

  are these are creations born of man and [TS]

  so it's nice to see you know that [TS]

  recognize and say well I like what this [TS]

  person did hear you know that showed [TS]

  some thought I fought hard to be on the [TS]

  second episode of this podcast primarily [TS]

  because i really wanted to talk over a [TS]

  series i had just seen sherlock with [TS]

  people because at that point I was [TS]

  living in a relatively small town in [TS]

  western Massachusetts and had absolutely [TS]

  no geeky friends in proximity so I had [TS]

  just like I just watched sherlock i had [TS]

  just started reading some of the books [TS]

  that were being discussed in the book [TS]

  club in episode 1 and when I found out [TS]

  that Jason was doing this it was very [TS]

  much a oh gosh finally people I can talk [TS]

  about interesting books and movies and [TS]

  television with I must be on this [TS]

  podcast then I think I pestered you [TS]

  until you let me on but I i really enjoy [TS]

  coming together and talking about [TS]

  subjects that were interested in be a [TS]

  television be books i love the format of [TS]

  the podcast and that we'd it's not [TS]

  necessarily you know we show up every [TS]

  week and then we decide what we want to [TS]

  talk about but having the idea of all we [TS]

  have the book club and we have you know [TS]

  TV stuff and we have comics and like all [TS]

  I read comics I don't read them heavily [TS]

  enough that I want to discuss them with [TS]

  other people so it's like it's nice that [TS]

  i can go i can sit back and listen to [TS]

  things than being comfortable but you [TS]

  know i'm i'm not necessarily qualified [TS]

  to talk about but when it comes to come [TS]

  when it comes to like television when it [TS]

  comes to books I it's not only a good [TS]

  way to talk about things that I've just [TS]

  you know that we've just seen or we've [TS]

  just read or listen to but it's also at [TS]

  least for me when we're discussing you [TS]

  know topics ahead of time of oh you know [TS]

  what book should we read what a what TV [TS]

  shows have been caught in people's [TS]

  memories like there have been a lot of [TS]

  books that i read in this last year that [TS]

  i would have otherwise just either seen [TS]

  and been like oh that sounds cool but [TS]

  just not gotten around to it [TS]

  or just missed entirely that thanks to [TS]

  the incomparable it's like Oh ready [TS]

  player one yeah I'll sit down and read [TS]

  that in afternoon so we can talk about [TS]

  it on a podcast because i think it would [TS]

  be fun or name of the wind you know [TS]

  they're there are a lot of a lot of [TS]

  great podcast some great television some [TS]

  really terrible books that I've read all [TS]

  thanks to the stuff you're welcome for [TS]

  the terrible book huh that's all the [TS]

  terrible books had their own you know [TS]

  enjoyment because again talking about [TS]

  even you know I it's no secret that I [TS]

  didn't particularly enjoy the magician's [TS]

  but having a group of people to talk [TS]

  about with the reasons why i disliked [TS]

  the magician's made me made like some of [TS]

  the reading of that book okay like oh [TS]

  well I had to read this book and I [TS]

  didn't really like it but at least I got [TS]

  to hear other people's opinions on the [TS]

  book and I got to you know debate it [TS]

  with some people and that was really fun [TS]

  so yeah being comfortable it is a good [TS]

  way to learn about media [TS]

  well I i read i mean i've read i read [TS]

  more books now that i have a kindle and [TS]

  then uh then the uncomfortable on top of [TS]

  that has made me read a lot more and [TS]

  that's a good thing and and you're right [TS]

  not not all the books have been good but [TS]

  they died I appreciate it and a lot of [TS]

  them have been very good and that was [TS]

  the idea with the first episode we [TS]

  recorded which we didn't even have a [TS]

  title for we recorded two episodes [TS]

  trials before we even posted any and one [TS]

  of them was the the book club episode [TS]

  the very first book club and we call [TS]

  that specifically to in order to try and [TS]

  have that that feeling of a bunch of [TS]

  people coming together having read a [TS]

  book and and just talking it over and [TS]

  and i and maybe getting some interesting [TS]

  perspectives that they didn't have when [TS]

  they read the book and trying to apply [TS]

  that then to anything whether it's a [TS]

  comic or a movie or TV show and I i [TS]

  think that has worked pretty well [TS]

  because a hundred episodes later we're [TS]

  still doing and we're still you know [TS]

  finding interesting [TS]

  boy there's no shortage we just did a [TS]

  podcast number 99 that had like what [TS]

  like 40 books that we mentioned it's [TS]

  great there's never a shortage [TS]

  there's so much stuff out there one cut [TS]

  particular kind of episode that we do [TS]

  are these kind of these praise sessions [TS]

  more or less about things that we really [TS]

  lovely especially movies that we really [TS]

  love and they aren't as critical they [TS]

  there is some insight in them but [TS]

  they're not you know we're not [TS]

  necessarily criticizing the princess [TS]

  bride or Star Wars movies or raiders of [TS]

  the lost ark when we when we talk about [TS]

  them and yet I I don't feel that it [TS]

  devolves into hey do you remember that [TS]

  scene that was really great I feel like [TS]

  when I i hear what other people have to [TS]

  say about those movies I'm gaining some [TS]

  insight that I didn't have before about [TS]

  that movie that i love and i may have [TS]

  seen 20 times but that that I know that [TS]

  through somebody else's eyes there's [TS]

  going to be something else there that I [TS]

  hadn't really thought of whether it was [TS]

  you know John Gruber talking about [TS]

  certain scenes and raiders of the lost [TS]

  ark or or John siracusa talking about [TS]

  the the han and Leia relationship which [TS]

  is one of my favorite moments in any [TS]

  uncomfortable that we've done where you [TS]

  you parse through and basically say you [TS]

  know their relationship has changed by [TS]

  the time to get to cloud city and they [TS]

  probably had sex and had just blew me [TS]

  away i had never ever thought of it that [TS]

  way and how many times have I seen the [TS]

  empire strikes back so you know those [TS]

  aren't critical episodes necessarily in [TS]

  the sense of us thinking about the [TS]

  negative they're not negative right but [TS]

  there-there think you know like you were [TS]

  starting out by saying these are things [TS]

  that bear enough substance that they are [TS]

  worth it there is something there [TS]

  there's something there there's more [TS]

  than just as on them was just on the [TS]

  surface and you can actually dig into [TS]

  that and that's not true with every [TS]

  movie right there's a lot of or book or [TS]

  TV show etc there's all these you know [TS]

  there's there's so much crap floating [TS]

  around [TS]

  I think you know is that surgeons lon [TS]

  ninety percent of everything is crap [TS]

  moralist so that ten percent of stuff [TS]

  that's actually good you know is worth [TS]

  delving into to figure out i think for [TS]

  us me most was being geeks we have a you [TS]

  know an interesting figure out what [TS]

  makes things tick why does it work [TS]

  why is this successful even if it's not [TS]

  successful in every way why is it [TS]

  successful in the ways that it is and [TS]

  what can we learn from that and that's [TS]

  interesting to talk about because you [TS]

  know people want to know what makes [TS]

  things [TS]

  tick or work or why did this movie [TS]

  succeed where this other movie that [TS]

  seems very much like it on the surface [TS]

  fail [TS]

  Scott you uh you read a lot of books [TS]

  yes many many books [TS]

  yes yes all right wait for it is a [TS]

  question of do you remember any of them [TS]

  Scott anything except not many books i [TS]

  remember the one I'm reading right now [TS]

  so when we talk about books uh you know [TS]

  you you go through a lot and I imagine [TS]

  that because I mean read some of the [TS]

  books that you recommend i imagine you [TS]

  read a lot of books that are that are [TS]

  not very good to that are kind of crappy [TS]

  books and and you know I think what it [TS]

  is interesting about what we tried to do [TS]

  here is we don't generally pick on the [TS]

  crappy books right we we we tend to [TS]

  focus more on the ones that we think are [TS]

  worth somebody else's time rather than [TS]

  knowingly inflicting like The Magicians [TS]

  I didn't knowingly inflict that on [TS]

  serenity I I hadn't read it when I said [TS]

  we should read it I just thought that [TS]

  between that and the night circus we had [TS]

  a little bit of sort of synergy there [TS]

  about magical kind of books that people [TS]

  are talking about it turned out that she [TS]

  hated it I know I for one and really [TS]

  really glad that Scott McNulty read so [TS]

  many books because I basically use him [TS]

  as a giant brita filter for books where [TS]

  every time he says he recommends a book [TS]

  it goes on my list to read [TS]

  he's filled with activated charcoal [TS]

  exactly activated charcoal to wash out [TS]

  all of your terrible books looks really [TS]

  cool in the fridge they're nice they're [TS]

  getting you know it he's a multi-tasker [TS]

  read a lot of wonderful things if you [TS]

  can remember its title let alone what [TS]

  it's about [TS]

  that is a good sign i think exactly true [TS]

  yeah and that's what you know I i enjoy [TS]

  participating in the incomparable [TS]

  although I'm not as vocal as many of the [TS]

  other panelists I like to consider my [TS]

  thoughts on like you people don't talk [TS]

  about because a i get to inflict books [TS]

  upon other people and then it's [TS]

  interesting all the books that i [TS]

  recommend like jason said to for us to [TS]

  discuss on the podcast are books that [TS]

  I've enjoyed and I think merit [TS]

  discussion and so it's interesting to me [TS]

  when I have really liked the book and [TS]

  then you know the rest of the panelists [TS]

  read it and someone has [TS]

  I enjoyed it as much as I it's [TS]

  interesting to see their perspective and [TS]

  how they explain how they can come to [TS]

  the wrong opinion that's always [TS]

  interesting and then the other side of [TS]

  the court is getting a chance like red [TS]

  set to read books that I normally [TS]

  wouldn't read like ready player one I [TS]

  probably wouldn't have picked up because [TS]

  it just is not something that I would be [TS]

  interested in and then i read it and it [TS]

  wasn't very good so that kind of makes [TS]

  me feel better about my own tastes [TS]

  behind so those are the big thing of [TS]

  their both selfish obviously because I [TS]

  was selfish man but that is what that is [TS]

  why I enjoy participating in the income [TS]

  thank you Scott York who else would like [TS]

  to say complimentary things about [TS]

  participating think i have a thing to [TS]

  say yes gland please my thing the floor [TS]

  today is it is my thing is that i know [TS]

  that i started reading science fiction [TS]

  and fantasy to a lesser extent i started [TS]

  like like the whole genre as a kid [TS]

  there were times in my life when I was [TS]

  less popular unpopular and their time in [TS]

  my life when I was quite popular [TS]

  surprisingly enough i know for this [TS]

  programs using any of us might have been [TS]

  popular [TS]

  I find that hard to believe what time [TS]

  what time are we and now he's saying [TS]

  that you know people there was a point [TS]

  in my life when I senior class president [TS]

  is all I'm saying but that was the house [TS]

  in my life I don't necessarily she was [TS]

  your vice president was like Nixon or [TS]

  something he had to resign mid-semester [TS]

  was terrible controversy but metaphor [TS]

  more apps than you could thought Dan so [TS]

  glad you were sometimes popular can be [TS]

  spoken our graduation it's hot gases [TS]

  over that's what I have to have to do it [TS]

  and I have to do so anyway because he's [TS]

  a nice man at the world or a white suit [TS]

  anyway the reason is I you know their [TS]

  choice my life in which you will use [TS]

  escapist fiction whether it's you know [TS]

  more realistic or fantastical use it to [TS]

  escape your life and there's times that [TS]

  you're you read it because it enhances [TS]

  your life and i have to say as I've [TS]

  become a you know as I because I've [TS]

  grown up [TS]

  ostensibly growing up and gotten older [TS]

  so has the medium for us when we were [TS]

  all younger or even before we were long [TS]

  before born there are times when science [TS]

  fiction especially in fantasy maybe even [TS]

  more so we're sort of pulp and all the [TS]

  medium which they occurred [TS]

  they weren't that sophisticated you can [TS]

  find examples of it i mean the great [TS]

  stories of old comic books or certain [TS]

  series of certain writers that you know [TS]

  develop deeper themes in their work but [TS]

  you would have this gets into the genre [TS]

  ghetto issue you know that's still being [TS]

  fought but there is a point which you [TS]

  could say that a lot of was being [TS]

  produced maybe in the forties fifties [TS]

  sixties couldn't easily be compared to [TS]

  what was being produced in fiction at [TS]

  the time or even nonfiction let's say it [TS]

  wasn't as interesting as wasn't deep [TS]

  then explore the recesses of the human [TS]

  mind I don't think you can say that [TS]

  about the last 30 years of output and so [TS]

  when I want something like a doctor who [TS]

  episode even even when it's unless it's [TS]

  one of our very fluffy silly ones there [TS]

  are issues that are being presented [TS]

  their that you have to have the filter [TS]

  of an alternative universe so you can [TS]

  set the parameters so you can explore [TS]

  intellectually a concept there is no way [TS]

  to do with the framework of realistic [TS]

  fiction and I think that to me is the [TS]

  fundamental reason I'm interested in all [TS]

  this serve a genre of things that are [TS]

  impossible that you can read about draw [TS]

  write about participating is that it [TS]

  lets you explore intellectual ideas that [TS]

  are simply not possible in in other [TS]

  realms of expression and it's one reason [TS]

  why I think things like abstract art [TS]

  when the art world was overturned the [TS]

  1800 you start have non realistic [TS]

  depictions of art and then the nineteen [TS]

  hundreds it's completely broken apart [TS]

  with the darkest sand Wars you know [TS]

  producing new kinds of art because of [TS]

  people's response that the same thing [TS]

  that that art made people angry because [TS]

  it forced them to confront the problem [TS]

  of life confront the kids they're being [TS]

  fed and have to think about things that [TS]

  were difficult and hard and one of the [TS]

  greatest descriptions ever read and I [TS]

  think this is it's not specifically [TS]

  treated say the science fiction fantasy [TS]

  but i think it's just like that is i'm [TS]

  stephen roche the minimalist composer [TS]

  when he premiered one of his [TS]

  compositions for orgo some he's you know [TS]

  he's the sub his work it's repetitive [TS]

  it's this he says it's rude and [TS]

  gregorian chant is very slight changes [TS]

  in the pieces [TS]

  Carson maddening and beautiful in their [TS]

  way it was premiered I think it was the [TS]

  nineteen seventies to season-ticket [TS]

  holder goods and people were so angry [TS]

  they went up in there pounding on the [TS]

  stage people left in your like he made [TS]

  them think in a different way so i love [TS]

  this genre and I've grown to really [TS]

  enjoy being able to talk about it with [TS]

  you all and to have the feedback we get [TS]

  through Twitter and email and hearing [TS]

  the people read the same thing because i [TS]

  think it's a great way to explore ideas [TS]

  that make our brains bigger you always [TS]

  you always talk about how an FM hack [TS]

  your brain by introducing the concepts [TS]

  that you had to actually internalized [TS]

  before you can understand what you're [TS]

  what you're reading and i would argue [TS]

  that you know any good novel I or [TS]

  actually any story you could argue to [TS]

  actual brain a little bit that stories [TS]

  are machines intended to perfect you [TS]

  know create a a specific response [TS]

  elicited a response in you and and and [TS]

  but NM actually has a whole vocabulary [TS]

  that goes with it and I read about that [TS]

  with other people is I you know there's [TS]

  times when i read a book and I think [TS]

  this is so meaningful and you talk to [TS]

  the people they find not as much and the [TS]

  same effect [TS]

  I remember going through and family i [TS]

  was i was better blogging or tweeting at [TS]

  the time that like it was like I made [TS]

  base camp at page 350 I'm gonna try the [TS]

  ascent to page four hundred tomorrow and [TS]

  if I you know if I don't freeze 500 you [TS]

  know where to find my body and after the [TS]

  first time through that he was [TS]

  presenting so much conceptual framework [TS]

  the whole universe was off he was [TS]

  inviting language do you other panelists [TS]

  get that sense when you're reading [TS]

  certain kinds of books that are that [TS]

  Howard but worthwhile that your brain is [TS]

  being weird that actually felt like I [TS]

  had to learn and shift my perspective [TS]

  just to get through the book and then [TS]

  another time like I already have all [TS]

  this my head all these names have been [TS]

  constructed have to do all this heavy [TS]

  work in the mean mines well I mean it [TS]

  you know I think Steven doesn't way [TS]

  that's very it's very deliberate in a [TS]

  way that it's it's more transparent and [TS]

  other books that don't have that sort of [TS]

  steep learning curve [TS]

  I think he draws a lot of attention to [TS]

  it because he spends time replacing [TS]

  things that you can actively identify [TS]

  things that aren't entirely novel [TS]

  concepts right like you might read a [TS]

  science-fiction book and they might have [TS]

  its own terminology or fantasy book that [TS]

  has its own rules and terminology and [TS]

  you sort of have two pieces together as [TS]

  you go along ok there's a supernatural [TS]

  creatures got this magic it works like [TS]

  this and understand all that whereas he [TS]

  was taking stuff that exist in our world [TS]

  you know [TS]

  telephones the digital cameras and stuff [TS]

  like that and just put slapping your [TS]

  name on it and i think that was [TS]

  effective it for me anyways it worked it [TS]

  was interesting as a piece of art I [TS]

  agree that it was something that it felt [TS]

  kind of like a slog until you hit the [TS]

  crest at a point where you have [TS]

  internalized all that vocabulary but [TS]

  yeah i don't know i mean those are [TS]

  against this sort of goes back to the [TS]

  idea i was talking about before which is [TS]

  that you know this this is stuff that [TS]

  has clearly taken a lot of work and a [TS]

  lot of deliberate thought to construct [TS]

  and that that makes it interesting to [TS]

  discuss general for me I I cuz i read i [TS]

  read non sci-fi and stuff and seen on [TS]

  sci-fi movies and TV shows i I'm not a [TS]

  specific one genre kind of person and I [TS]

  I there are some books it's actually [TS]

  very strange when one of the authors [TS]

  that I like who doesn't right [TS]

  genre stuff suddenly does like when when [TS]

  nick hornby wrote a slam which has a [TS]

  sci-fi element of it that was crazy but [TS]

  but yet there's something about that [TS]

  moment where you realize you anything is [TS]

  possible that you don't have that the [TS]

  that the story you're hearing doesn't [TS]

  have to abide by the rules of the [TS]

  universe and that goes back to stories [TS]

  we hear is you know fairy tales and [TS]

  things like that we here as kids that [TS]

  are our fantastic nature and anything is [TS]

  possible and I just always loved that [TS]

  that sense that that you're really [TS]

  allowing the imagination of the writer [TS]

  to come to the fore and that anything is [TS]

  possible I could be i love those moments [TS]

  in the in the george RR martin books [TS]

  where r early on in the in Game of [TS]

  Thrones where you forget for a while [TS]

  that there's magic in this world you [TS]

  think you've sort of are just following [TS]

  the rules and then they're suddenly it's [TS]

  magic and it's shocking and really cool [TS]

  that they're there's something different [TS]

  or that you can tell a story about [TS]

  modern issues in inhuman you know in [TS]

  culture [TS]

  or stroke broad stories about human [TS]

  nature and set them on a spaceship or [TS]

  something and you know you don't realize [TS]

  what you're seeing until until you [TS]

  finally do and you're like oh I see [TS]

  what's going on here [TS]

  I just I always have loved that shift in [TS]

  perception that that sci-fi and fantasy [TS]

  bring that you don't necessarily see ma [TS]

  you know gritty mainstream reality based [TS]

  story about a man who's got a bad job [TS]

  and you know it's the escapism and I [TS]

  guess does appeal to me whether I'm you [TS]

  know whether I'm escaping my life or [TS]

  just enjoying the day yeah said [TS]

  blackberry no I think there's a there's [TS]

  a nerd [TS]

  there's entertainment value which [TS]

  shouldn't be overlooked in the in the [TS]

  sense of just something that's a good [TS]

  story right you know it doesn't [TS]

  necessarily have to be because it's you [TS]

  know Escape mr. because it's requires [TS]

  the sort of deep critical thinking there [TS]

  are stories that just get you at a you [TS]

  know a visceral level and are effective [TS]

  in that they you know they wrap you up [TS]

  there page-turners right and you know [TS]

  sometimes those you can there's plenty [TS]

  of those they get written that maybe [TS]

  aren't very good but it's worth putting [TS]

  you know it's worth pulling out the ones [TS]

  that are and trying to figure out why [TS]

  they succeed well these other ones you [TS]

  know someone in the chatroom mentioned [TS]

  Dan Brown before who is one of my most [TS]

  loads writer once we do that is we all [TS]

  agree once we do the damn brown episode [TS]

  of being comfortable it's over [TS]

  sharks shark has been John yeah pretty [TS]

  much i can tell you why I hate dan [TS]

  friend is diverging alcoholic [TS]

  although he did write the word sentence [TS]

  ever constructed in english language but [TS]

  that said I think it's actually there is [TS]

  worth I'm not Dan Brown quickly but [TS]

  there is that thing is we get you know [TS]

  there's is the generalization you get [TS]

  you get irritated when you read stuff in [TS]

  the genre that is bad and down is well [TS]

  praise like feed because you think oh [TS]

  this is what everybody thinks is what [TS]

  every reads with costco has in the table [TS]

  so when you say yeah I'm part of this [TS]

  podcast and we talked about geeky things [TS]

  and sci-fi fantasy books and comic books [TS]

  and all this stuff and people are like [TS]

  oh you know I picked up blah and it was [TS]

  so blah i could never read a blog and [TS]

  you're like that's that's what makes you [TS]

  angry about it's not it's not just [TS]

  aggressively bad which makes you angry [TS]

  but it's also it spoils the the pot for [TS]

  other for talking other people and [TS]

  having them be interested as well [TS]

  another thing that interests me about [TS]

  feed is that there are people who liked [TS]

  it which I know has a little facetious [TS]

  but it's just you know yeah having read [TS]

  it is an awful awful book empirically a [TS]

  bad book but there are lots of people [TS]

  who enjoy it and that is the the beauty [TS]

  of you know I guess being a human right [TS]

  everyone has different perceptions [TS]

  everyone has different critical [TS]

  requirements for what they're reading [TS]

  and that makes it interesting to talk [TS]

  about this stuff and get other people's [TS]

  viewpoints and I was also going to say [TS]

  that I think part of the joy of reading [TS]

  good science fiction and good fantasy is [TS]

  not the fact that anything that can [TS]

  happen but things can happen that are [TS]

  consistent with the rules of the story [TS]

  you don't know necessarily what those [TS]

  rules are when you're reading the story [TS]

  or where you start the story but a good [TS]

  constructed a sci-fi or fantasy story [TS]

  will let the reader discover these rules [TS]

  as things are happening and I think that [TS]

  that is part of the reward of reading [TS]

  finely crafted science fiction or [TS]

  fantasy story or novel is that you get [TS]

  you feel like you've accomplished [TS]

  something because you figure out why [TS]

  things happen and it's internally [TS]

  consistent whereas if anything could [TS]

  happen it's not very rewarding because [TS]

  why does you know the the rabbit turn [TS]

  into a dragon it doesn't matter because [TS]

  anything can happen so who cares [TS]

  well that's what you're taking about the [TS]

  magician's is that I came to figuring [TS]

  that was actually pretty good because it [TS]

  was so well-reviewed people talked about [TS]

  it a lot and I was really more [TS]

  disappointed than I might have been [TS]

  otherwise because it was so full of that [TS]

  same thing like whenever needed a rule [TS]

  it got pulled out you know it's oh well [TS]

  this happens well great now we have this [TS]

  and there's this strange [TS]

  multi-dimensional being you know its [TS]

  blood just it just felt very resultantly [TS]

  and like the author couldn't even be [TS]

  bothered to keep track of characters and [TS]

  what they were doing and I just I don't [TS]

  know what kind of offended when I hit [TS]

  something like why do people like this [TS]

  are they reading so it's not that you [TS]

  shouldn't be for fun but if you're [TS]

  reading so non critically you can't [TS]

  recognize flaws that in other genres [TS]

  would make a book unreadable then what's [TS]

  going on I mean you could say that about [TS]

  isaac asimov's rating at times that he [TS]

  you know so much about plot and not [TS]

  about [TS]

  hey about dialogue got like some of this [TS]

  stuff oh come on now is some of his work [TS]

  is somewhat unreadable accept his plots [TS]

  are so good and that changes are [TS]

  different [TS]

  don't criticize everything wrote [TS]

  obviously I've read a large portion but [TS]

  I'm but notice that notion that you know [TS]

  the the space opera is so big we just [TS]

  give up on the actual necessity of [TS]

  writing well [TS]

  I do love and author knows where he's [TS]

  going in terms of you know the [TS]

  world-building of science fiction is so [TS]

  fantastic I in that almost every book [TS]

  you pick up unless that's a series and [TS]

  you're going through subsequent novels [TS]

  you know it's an entirely new world you [TS]

  may have some familiar characteristics [TS]

  here and there but you have you know you [TS]

  have this creation of the authors but i [TS]

  love it when you can tell right off the [TS]

  bat that the author knows exactly where [TS]

  he's going [TS]

  especially in series is when you track [TS]

  back to the first book or reread things [TS]

  and find details that don't show up name [TS]

  maybe until the fourth or fifth book [TS]

  that have been carefully hidden and [TS]

  planted there was something I'm [TS]

  amusingly there was something in harry [TS]

  potter where i was reading a couple a [TS]

  couple days ago from a blog where they [TS]

  were comparing something from the fourth [TS]

  or fifth book where Harry is having a [TS]

  conversation with his aunt and uncle and [TS]

  his aunt brings up the wizard prison as [TS]

  cabanne and I Harry assumes that she [TS]

  says that she's heard it from that boy [TS]

  and Harry assumes that she's talking [TS]

  about her father or his father and then [TS]

  only I think in the last book in the [TS]

  seventh book you find out that in fact [TS]

  she was talking about over hearing it [TS]

  from one other characters ever snape I [TS]

  and you find that out through a [TS]

  flashback but you don't necessarily [TS]

  connect the two unless you read the book [TS]

  it's like oh you actually had a specific [TS]

  plan for saying that boy over you know a [TS]

  specific name or something like like [TS]

  it's it's a little detail in a wildly [TS]

  popular you know what fantasy series but [TS]

  it's that kind of idea of being able to [TS]

  keep the balls in the air and being able [TS]

  to paint a wild multifaceted picture of [TS]

  you know the genre that you're working [TS]

  in I think we all like to be rewarded as [TS]

  readers or consumers of of media and [TS]

  it's it's nice to feel like you know the [TS]

  author or the Creator is putting as much [TS]

  attention into it as we are [TS]

  paying to it and so you don't have that [TS]

  section i mean i-i think 22 Scott's [TS]

  earlier point I think rules can be [TS]

  narrow or broad depending on the the [TS]

  world i thought you know is when you [TS]

  start talking about that i thought about [TS]

  Doctor Who and about how the the rules [TS]

  there are are so tremendously broad [TS]

  sometimes that a lot of stuff does get [TS]

  by just because you know it's it's [TS]

  equivalently magic [TS]

  I mean but that's how that show operates [TS]

  that's the parameters of that show but [TS]

  we do all like to be rewarded in the [TS]

  sense of thinking about you know we a we [TS]

  give this much attention to something [TS]

  like Star Wars and it's nice to see like [TS]

  you know there are references that [TS]

  foreshadow things or that's constructed [TS]

  in such a way as to be internally [TS]

  consistent and it bothers us when things [TS]

  are not consistent right so that you [TS]

  know there are things that are mentioned [TS]

  in the the the only three star wars [TS]

  movies that exist that are then in some [TS]

  ways contradicted by three other movies [TS]

  that were never made and that's annoying [TS]

  because you feel like wow but you [TS]

  already set up these these possibilities [TS]

  and you set up this thread and then you [TS]

  not only didn't carry through on it you [TS]

  just sort of took a sharp left turn with [TS]

  it and i think that there's there's a [TS]

  lot of reason for why we like things [TS]

  like I you know to pull out a couple of [TS]

  my favorite examples examples neil [TS]

  gaiman's sandman is a great example of a [TS]

  large work that has numerous references [TS]

  that work both forward and backwards in [TS]

  terms of referencing things that haven't [TS]

  happened yet or referencing things that [TS]

  you've already been in much prior much [TS]

  previous volumes and lois mcmaster [TS]

  bujold foreclosing saga which we didn't [TS]

  episode on where there are you know tips [TS]

  of the hat to things that happened you [TS]

  know ten books earlier or there are [TS]

  references to things that will be [TS]

  important in 10 books and so it's nice [TS]

  to feel like there is this world that's [TS]

  constructed that exists even when we're [TS]

  not actively paying attention to it that [TS]

  we can visit when we like and I think [TS]

  that's probably some of the attraction [TS]

  and other media as well like things like [TS]

  multiplayer online games you know people [TS]

  like this idea of being able to visit [TS]

  another world and it helps if it's [TS]

  constructed in such a way as to feel [TS]

  well fleshed out and consistent it's [TS]

  funny damn that you mentioned the [TS]

  prequels because i was going to use the [TS]

  the what calls well okay so we devoted [TS]

  six episodes to talking about in great [TS]

  detail all three star wars movies and I [TS]

  i do think it tell it says something [TS]

  about us that we devoted all that time [TS]

  hours and hours and hours like nine [TS]

  hours of running time to movies that [TS]

  didn't run that long [TS]

  quite honestly and yet we we haven't we [TS]

  talked about it we joke about we haven't [TS]

  done an episode about you know the [TS]

  Phantom Menace right we be because what [TS]

  would we say I mean it might be fun to [TS]

  take its body and kick it around right i [TS]

  mean i don't think there are good things [TS]

  for us to say about it but they would be [TS]

  so outweighed by us [TS]

  it's too fraught with problems and to it [TS]

  would be too much of a trashing that it [TS]

  wouldn't be worth it and it also feels [TS]

  like beating up you know beating up the [TS]

  kid to take his lunch money because it's [TS]

  like I mean it's not a challenge right [TS]

  there are lots of criticisms you can [TS]

  make all right i mean what would the [TS]

  point be of us you know beating [TS]

  something to death that we just I mean [TS]

  I'm not sure that would be a pleasurable [TS]

  episode to listen to ultimately if we're [TS]

  done eating with anything that is not [TS]

  what we do and more the point you know [TS]

  there is a certain delight in giving [TS]

  something a bad review but when these [TS]

  things have existed for so long and are [TS]

  so a vengeance i wanted yeah if not [TS]

  unanimously then so generally disliked [TS]

  then there's really very little new to [TS]

  say about that other than I just like it [TS]

  the only real way we could ever do an [TS]

  actual podcast on the prequels with [TS]

  beaded basically look at the very few [TS]

  things that the prequels got right and [TS]

  also to improve upon like basically what [TS]

  would make the prequels a good movie or [TS]

  something you know we but you can't just [TS]

  do I know it's really hard to think [TS]

  about but the the point that I'm trying [TS]

  to make is that you can't just do an [TS]

  entirely negative episode that's just [TS]

  going to throw heaping you know keeping [TS]

  insults after keeping insults on to this [TS]

  poor set of movies because i mean it's [TS]

  it's like teasing you know the picked on [TS]

  kid in the class [TS]

  he's got enough already there's no point [TS]

  but it seems like there's a point only [TS]

  when you're trying to warn people off [TS]

  something so when people asked your [TS]

  opinion she heard about this book called [TS]

  Fedor the magicians are ready player one [TS]

  or [TS]

  any of the other ones like that and we [TS]

  did you say all yeah well you know I [TS]

  read it didn't like it we did a podcast [TS]

  on it if you want to know more about it [TS]

  there's some spoilers but you're [TS]

  thinking about getting it you're trying [TS]

  to keep people from wasting their time [TS]

  the time is the questions commodity and [TS]

  but you know if everyone knows about it [TS]

  already if everyone already hates the [TS]

  putative prequels or what you know the [TS]

  books are in question or the comic books [TS]

  whatever it is then what's the right way [TS]

  yeah piling on I would prefer to do [TS]

  episodes recommending things that I [TS]

  loved rather than hating on things that [TS]

  I didn't unless it's unless it's [TS]

  something horrible like 50 shades of [TS]

  grey or something or it's like it's a [TS]

  wildly Lauda duh book that everybody [TS]

  should read no no one should read this [TS]

  book like I can understand being the you [TS]

  know the bearer of bad news in that [TS]

  situation but otherwise if we're talking [TS]

  about more obscure literature and [TS]

  television and movies I'd rather just [TS]

  focus on the things that are fantastic [TS]

  and not spend waste so much energy [TS]

  trashing the things that aren't yet [TS]

  we're never going to stop people from [TS]

  buying fifty shades of grey or george RR [TS]

  martin or whatever we've tried to if we [TS]

  were trying to prevent people from [TS]

  buying that we're never gonna do that [TS]

  we're too tiny for that but we can tell [TS]

  people about things that are good and [TS]

  help [TS]

  I mean this is the whole point i'm used [TS]

  to be when independent bookstores were [TS]

  thriving and perhaps they will not be [TS]

  totally going in the future in some [TS]

  crazy way that there's this thing that's [TS]

  still around called hand selling where [TS]

  there'd be thousands and thousands of [TS]

  independent book stores across the [TS]

  country and authors with tour and be [TS]

  making contacts with you know all the [TS]

  people at the stores and trying to [TS]

  convince them of the work their book and [TS]

  sometimes books were discovered this way [TS]

  by individual clerks or managers and [TS]

  stores and thousands of places selling [TS]

  it and I feel like at some level that's [TS]

  a rule we're trying to fill as we don't [TS]

  have an enormous listenership but we're [TS]

  trying to help especially the more [TS]

  obscure stuff find an audience and maybe [TS]

  engaged some of the word of mouth [TS]

  weekend about and make some you know [TS]

  great stuff a slightly bigger and [TS]

  therefore produce more great stuff I [TS]

  think those are the two best things that [TS]

  we can do on a podcast like this is is [TS]

  highlight things that you may not have [TS]

  heard of that we think are really great [TS]

  and talk about things that that are [TS]

  generally held to be really great in [TS]

  sort of loving detail and being able to [TS]

  take them apart and explain why we like [TS]

  them and the quirks we find about the [TS]

  main those are my two favorite sort of [TS]

  things that we do here are those two [TS]

  John siracusa you have many many points [TS]

  to make about this discussion life I [TS]

  suspect [TS]

  yes this go back to many things that [TS]

  have been mentioned by other people i [TS]

  think i'll start with a damn was talking [TS]

  about in the beginning so when we [TS]

  actually get back to the indian taco [TS]

  thing we enjoy something or when we [TS]

  don't enjoy it like you see a movie you [TS]

  read a book and you would like to you [TS]

  don't everybody has that feeling you can [TS]

  ask anybody on the street do you know [TS]

  you saw the movie did you like it yes [TS]

  now so easy to give your opinion right [TS]

  eye and the the question the follow-up [TS]

  question that almost no one asks is why [TS]

  I and why you didn't like it is usually [TS]

  you know they'll let me tell you I [TS]

  didn't like this was stupid i like that [TS]

  or whatever but like you know but just [TS]

  kind of generality same thing with joy [TS]

  was exciting was fun i laughed you know [TS]

  I cried whatever eat it sort of vague [TS]

  generalities of why you liked or didn't [TS]

  like something but figuring out why you [TS]

  do or don't like something is something [TS]

  is that quality like the desire to say [TS]

  to examine and say why did I like that [TS]

  why did it like that is not it [TS]

  a common trait i find maybe it's Deacon [TS]

  on geek maybe just a circle traveling [TS]

  now part of it is like learning about [TS]

  the craft if you're interested in movies [TS]

  or filmmaking or writing you want to [TS]

  learn about you know that the art of [TS]

  doing in the craft and how did they make [TS]

  that movie and why is this good and [TS]

  that's bad and you know and and learning [TS]

  how and and what Dan said before [TS]

  learning how things tick if you're a [TS]

  geek you're an engineer or somebody [TS]

  likes to take things apart you want to [TS]

  know how they work on the inside and [TS]

  I'll get back to that in a second but [TS]

  the other part of this is that asking [TS]

  yourself especially if for things that [TS]

  you enjoy is why did you like it or [TS]

  didn't like it [TS]

  part of it is also kind of like [TS]

  self-discovery because you have to [TS]

  examine yourself and say why did I like [TS]

  that and not yet and not all people like [TS]

  that the journey of self-discovery is [TS]

  not appealing to a lot of people it's [TS]

  kind of like it you know the the [TS]

  unexamined life that the unexamined life [TS]

  this is repellent to a certain kind of [TS]

  person but to other people the examined [TS]

  life is it you know scary or [TS]

  inappropriate [TS]

  you're not interesting because you have [TS]

  to think like I just go to see some [TS]

  movie and it's like you know I i go to [TS]

  see like an Adam Sandler movie and I [TS]

  really really like it [TS]

  few people who really really love and [TS]

  adam sandler we are going back and [TS]

  taking realty passaic why did I like [TS]

  that because sometimes you do you know [TS]

  you may not like the answer since the [TS]

  troop star wars star trek any movie that [TS]

  you think it most people don't think [TS]

  about what they like I liked it made me [TS]

  happy i smile and that sets [TS]

  self-examination that urge to like [TS]

  self-analyze is not common and is [TS]

  uncomfortable to a lot of people that's [TS]

  one of the things i wrote about the blog [TS]

  post is like the guy who comes back from [TS]

  moving says they don't like it they just [TS]

  go out stupid and it's like is that was [TS]

  that how you left it in your brain like [TS]

  do you do you really know why you didn't [TS]

  like it or do you not know why you [TS]

  didn't like I think most people don't [TS]

  know either like stuff don't know why [TS]

  they don't like stuff and I'm one of [TS]

  those people to whom that idea of not [TS]

  knowing why you like something why [TS]

  didn't like something independent of [TS]

  like the aircraft of it is is a is [TS]

  strange me and so John um I this happens [TS]

  to me and I want to see if this happens [TS]

  to you when the movies over and you're [TS]

  walking outside the theater and you've [TS]

  gone to the movie with somebody whether [TS]

  it's your family or friends or something [TS]

  I turn to you and say so what do you [TS]

  think of it do you answer them [TS]

  I and by that point already written a [TS]

  review on my head haha well because I I [TS]

  like I I don't even want to say i don't [TS]

  want to say yet because I'm still [TS]

  thinking about the night oh yeah it's [TS]

  alright it involves yeah I have that [TS]

  problem is i go to there's at least one [TS]

  of my friends who I go to movies with [TS]

  and I've been to the gyno I've known for [TS]

  20 years right we've got countless [TS]

  movies together i think i remember him [TS]

  liking like three movies every always [TS]

  comes out of it with a you'd like [TS]

  Johnny's got that immediately form like [TS]

  what are the things i don't get why this [TS]

  happened I don't get what they said was [TS]

  this point was the point of that you [TS]

  know and and me I'm still like reveling [TS]

  in the I just you know it was fun i just [TS]

  watched a movie 42 a firts I've really [TS]

  had a chance to think about it yet but [TS]

  the problem with that to a certain [TS]

  extent is it's good and it shows a [TS]

  critical mind but it's also really it [TS]

  kinda takes the wind out of you if [TS]

  you're like well that seems fun [TS]

  I guess I kinda liked it but I'm really [TS]

  chance think about it and then all of a [TS]

  sudden I'm garage with this entire like [TS]

  wrote of criticism where it's like well [TS]

  now i feel dumb if I'm not thinking [TS]

  about anything or even figure out why [TS]

  you liked it but i see i would argue [TS]

  that I actually try to cultivate a [TS]

  detachment from a critical thinking one [TS]

  engaged in a work of art because that [TS]

  you know you can i'm not going there is [TS]

  a critic i'm going to review the movie [TS]

  i'm going there for entertainment I know [TS]

  that John critical response the things [TS]

  is your entertainment but for me I like [TS]

  to be it's true but it's I like to you [TS]

  know what I saw brave recently sending [TS]

  some discussion on the uncomfortable [TS]

  lifts with anne frank's about this is i [TS]

  quite like break because it engage me in [TS]

  a certain level it turned off some my [TS]

  critical thought and I just washed [TS]

  through the hundred minutes of it came [TS]

  out the other when I had a really good [TS]

  time and now of course i'm picking apart [TS]

  parts and things that are weak and [TS]

  whatever but later and I don't lose that [TS]

  sense of at the time I was watching it [TS]

  the memory of enjoying it at that time [TS]

  and if I'm engaged in critical function [TS]

  for something like that where it's [TS]

  impossible become engaged are some [TS]

  things that is so bad that you're going [TS]

  to be broken out of the moment and do it [TS]

  but i think the point of a work of art [TS]

  of any kind of work of art is that [TS]

  engages you to a point in which the you [TS]

  are allowed to forgive yourself [TS]

  critical thinking because of the [TS]

  engagement of the medium I don't know if [TS]

  I'm capable of that [TS]

  well i'm not saying like during the [TS]

  thing you should be engaged in that [TS]

  although that can happen for various [TS]

  reasons but it's it's kind of different [TS]

  things like that so it's good and it's [TS]

  we have seen your wedding because [TS]

  emotions emotions involved in it you [TS]

  gotta be swept away like things [TS]

  sometimes to the people who are on the [TS]

  show and the people who enjoy the show [TS]

  I would imagine fall under the category [TS]

  of people for whom the enjoyment of art [TS]

  is enhanced by later discussion of it is [TS]

  always there are many many people who [TS]

  like it or dislike it [TS]

  do not want to examine why it was good [TS]

  why was bad why they like that why they [TS]

  didn't like it because by examining it [TS]

  there listening in the experience but we [TS]

  I think are not like that i think we [TS]

  want to if we like it or didn't like it [TS]

  was talking about but either side of [TS]

  those things enhances the experience [TS]

  like i enjoy movies more the more I [TS]

  discussing we've talked to death about [TS]

  Star Wars and art all those discussions [TS]

  enhance my enjoyment of Star Wars do not [TS]

  decrease it do not less than it and some [TS]

  people think like oh if you're picking [TS]

  it apart you're analyzing it again [TS]

  good or bad analyzing why you like it [TS]

  analyzing what you don't like it you're [TS]

  somehow lessening the experience and now [TS]

  now that you understand it is less [TS]

  interesting or mystical you've ruined it [TS]

  strong management you're stronger than [TS]

  me because I'm making a difference [TS]

  between the be during the moment of the [TS]

  appreciation not the the section later [TS]

  or doing critical thinking later i'm [TS]

  saying that a good work can bring you in [TS]

  especially when the universe was created [TS]

  I know but if that's what you think [TS]

  about later [TS]

  howard got you i agree with both of you [TS]

  I think there's just I think that's just [TS]

  for me as a DB thought I was trying to [TS]

  express was that being bras with [TS]

  opinions before I've had a chance to [TS]

  form my own can be off-putting because [TS]

  then those thoughts are permanently in [TS]

  my head and it's hard to form my own [TS]

  opinion [TS]

  well now you may have been great segue [TS]

  to my second metal point yes yes i do [TS]

  the John services which is all of us [TS]

  here are on a podcast and we're talking [TS]

  about that you know things we like or [TS]

  don't like [TS]

  and part of it you have to say is hubris [TS]

  like where we're a bunch of people who [TS]

  happen to be in our various professions [TS]

  like or side professions whatever [TS]

  writers other creative people who think [TS]

  that what we have to say about something [TS]

  is worth hearing like you know you're [TS]

  bright words and they go on a website [TS]

  for thousands of people to look at and [TS]

  we do a podcast and people no matter [TS]

  what gives [TS]

  who cares what we think we just you know [TS]

  it you have to have that little spark of [TS]

  yeah what I have to say about this is [TS]

  important and meaningful woman what then [TS]

  was saying when you get a bunch of other [TS]

  opinions and they you know they kind of [TS]

  like color the way you view things if [TS]

  their pains from people you don't care [TS]

  about they don't bother you and the more [TS]

  sort of confidence and faith you have in [TS]

  your own opinion as compared to the [TS]

  person giving them or whatever like the [TS]

  sunbed reviewing usat do you like you [TS]

  dismiss that whatever if someone who [TS]

  really like a friend of yours whose [TS]

  opinion you really expect gives gives [TS]

  you a bad opinion that is more difficult [TS]

  to to repel against but all of us I [TS]

  think have something in us that makes us [TS]

  think the things we have to say these [TS]

  insights we have about things we like [TS]

  again good or bad are worth sharing with [TS]

  other people because they're like a yeah [TS]

  you know maybe other people thought of [TS]

  that but I thought of it and i think [TS]

  that's worth sharing and here we all are [TS]

  doing that I think it's a big part of [TS]

  the show is that it's some small part of [TS]

  every single one of us thinks what do we [TS]

  have to say about this stuff is is worth [TS]

  doing and the final aspect that about [TS]

  learning how things tick is that this [TS]

  probably also a small part of our [TS]

  sometimes a really big part of us are [TS]

  actual real-life part of us thinks I [TS]

  want to learn how this works and why I [TS]

  enjoyed it and why I didn't and what I [TS]

  have to say about is important because [TS]

  someday I might [TS]

  do that maybe i'm going to write a book [TS]

  maybe I'll write five books maybe I'll [TS]

  write a whole book in a month maybe I'll [TS]

  be a movie maker make you know what i [TS]

  mean and figuring out how you know are [TS]

  in general or specific media markets [TS]

  part of that I don't think it's a [TS]

  coincidence they're all a bunch of like [TS]

  writers here or half writers or whatever [TS]

  talking about movies i've always been [TS]

  fascinated with I don't know if I ever [TS]

  have intended well or at least since I [TS]

  was a kid of intent of like being a [TS]

  screenwriter and all that but I've [TS]

  always been fascinated with how how it [TS]

  works [TS]

  yeah so I agree with that completely i [TS]

  I've always been interested in how it [TS]

  works and why it works and how it makes [TS]

  me feel and yes it's not that we're all [TS]

  people who who write things that lots of [TS]

  other people read and obviously that [TS]

  there's something in there to that we're [TS]

  sort of used to doing that although [TS]

  quite honestly you know I love having a [TS]

  creating a thing that goes out there [TS]

  that people like and that it has [TS]

  interesting perspectives from people who [TS]

  aren't me on it which is all of you [TS]

  there's a deep bench issue to which is [TS]

  like that last episode episode 99 [TS]

  uncomfortable in which we did the the [TS]

  sci-fi novel draft essentially like what [TS]

  should we do we how many books was a 40 [TS]

  you said Jason and at least at least and [TS]

  you know in many of us have read i went [TS]

  through i think i may have read not as [TS]

  many as anybody else whatever dozens of [TS]

  those and you know it's it's partly [TS]

  there is hubris of course I like doing [TS]

  this and to be honest if we're just us [TS]

  and we had no listeners i would probably [TS]

  still enjoy this it might be a little [TS]

  strange for us to do it in that [TS]

  circumstance but I wouldn't have to edit [TS]

  the podcast then if there was a letter [TS]

  through you would still edit chases and [TS]

  we do when we're in you know in [TS]

  geographically proximate areas i feel [TS]

  that was really good why whatever i've [TS]

  met almost all of you wait all of you [TS]

  have met all of you not that but the the [TS]

  point though is that it's um is that [TS]

  there is an expertise we bring this [TS]

  there's a humorous of you know we do [TS]

  like to talk and have people listen to [TS]

  us because we've been conditioned to [TS]

  that by having hundreds of thousands or [TS]

  millions of people read our stuff over [TS]

  you know over years so you get a little [TS]

  bit of a hey Matt we have something that [TS]

  whatever but the other arm the other [TS]

  part of that is that i would say most [TS]

  ocean say most people listen to the [TS]

  Sharks we don't know that but i would [TS]

  say a lot of people don't have the time [TS]

  to read all this if they've read [TS]

  everything we've read on [TS]

  sure let this is the podcast except to [TS]

  give feedback or to contrast the [TS]

  experience against ours which is [TS]

  interesting i listen to podcast so much [TS]

  you know discussions of things that [TS]

  people have rather seen that i also have [TS]

  but i think it's an issue of something [TS]

  like you know allegory or illusion [TS]

  likewise illusion interesting i remember [TS]

  watching lord of the rings the first [TS]

  movie when it came out and watching a [TS]

  fellowship of the rings and thinking God [TS]

  how they got it so much right and how [TS]

  they're even details from other books [TS]

  from the silmarillion other things you [TS]

  can read all the paraphernalia an [TS]

  apocryphal but everything that Tolkien [TS]

  written in the forgotten and whatever [TS]

  you know so I read everything and just [TS]

  little slices here and there and I [TS]

  thought oh this feels Richard to me than [TS]

  someone who didn't have that because [TS]

  they put all this into me to build the [TS]

  characterization build the world up it [TS]

  doesn't mean someone who didn't get all [TS]

  the illusion doesn't get the full just [TS]

  of it but there is something that they [TS]

  did for me and I feel like that's part [TS]

  of why we do the show is that we have a [TS]

  deep bench and we're trying to talk to [TS]

  people who maybe haven't read you know [TS]

  the thousand science-fiction novels or [TS]

  haven't had the time to read a [TS]

  particular water see a particular series [TS]

  were sort of both the pilot fish and the [TS]

  you know ancient mirror haha wow video [TS]

  there's no subtitle it blew me away [TS]

  there if you if you had ancient mariner [TS]

  and dot on your bingo board place to go [TS]

  and letting go [TS]

  haha so so as we go deep into the night [TS]

  here and it should probably finish at [TS]

  some point I wanted to go around and ask [TS]

  everybody if they've got a favorite and [TS]

  or at least favorite memory of the [TS]

  incomparable that since this is our last [TS]

  episode no no it's our anniversary [TS]

  episode already called well do you have [TS]

  a favorite or at least favorite the team [TS]

  when we all pitched our own fictional ah [TS]

  shall proceed to make your pitches with [TS]

  the TV show character draft [TS]

  yes that that was a great episode and I [TS]

  really enjoyed being part of it and it [TS]

  it brought together what John was you [TS]

  know turkeys was talking about a little [TS]

  bit be they need to create with the need [TS]

  to obsessively talk over and criticize [TS]

  so yes [TS]

  Skeletor forever slots [TS]

  yeah thats i'm going with that great i'm [TS]

  gonna be I'm gonna be can be a proxy [TS]

  Steve what's its now thank you thank you [TS]

  favorite moment or without a dad I just [TS]

  submitted up three clips from past [TS]

  episodes for an award for podcasting and [TS]

  skeletor was one of the things i submit [TS]

  that you probably won't make any sense [TS]

  but i don't care if we win I hasn't we [TS]

  don't know i'm gonna guess no no not yet [TS]

  well we'll lose later I haven't lost yet [TS]

  we're in a state of grace and lost their [TS]

  nominee let's just let's enjoy the [TS]

  nominee it's an honor just to be [TS]

  nominated even though i think anybody [TS]

  could be nominated we were nominated so [TS]

  damn do you have a favorite or least [TS]

  favorite I I both probably I'm go i [TS]

  think my favorite moment would be it's [TS]

  probably the the Empire podcast if only [TS]

  because I don't there's a specific [TS]

  moment just the fact that John John and [TS]

  I got to you know talk over everybody [TS]

  else for an hour now I'm I don't know [TS]

  it's it's it's always fun to find [TS]

  someone else who spend as much time [TS]

  thinking about a particular subject is [TS]

  you have so you can be like it goes a [TS]

  little small thing right there the [TS]

  castle totally notice that was it so i [TS]

  don't know i enjoy that enjoy that [TS]

  interchange and as Jon says I really [TS]

  like you know discussing things like [TS]

  that because i think it enhances you [TS]

  know my enjoyment of the of the media [TS]

  and so I think the umpire Boggess three [TS]

  hours long as it was you know I was i I [TS]

  got the end of that I was still but I [TS]

  was ready to go another round [TS]

  you know I was still put me in coach you [TS]

  know as somebody who let me just over [TS]

  these guys ready to talk over me again [TS]

  hey it's like we're back there no I mean [TS]

  as someone who was the foremost like [TS]

  experts on Empire and star wars in her [TS]

  community growing up it was humbling to [TS]

  I to join you in Siracusa for several [TS]

  hours to talk about the nitty-gritty [TS]

  bits of empire we really love it [TS]

  I want I know I know well it makes me [TS]

  happy because it's like Oh new things [TS]

  that I can discover that i have not [TS]

  noticed yet i was scrolling through the [TS]

  archives and found my least favorite [TS]

  moment which is episode number 31 [TS]

  entitled supernatural and I think [TS]

  everyone [TS]

  understand [TS]

  understand [TS]

  monday would give them talk about your [TS]

  favorite she asks and any moment [TS]

  involving scouting del t be my nemesis [TS]

  especially the part where you didn't [TS]

  call me as an emphasis on the show with [TS]

  Jonathan golden where they talked about [TS]

  the song nemesis my best move as a [TS]

  deficit [TS]

  yes that was my McNulty Scott do you [TS]

  have a favorite or least favorite I how [TS]

  could I have at least favorite moment [TS]

  Jason really they're all have another [TS]

  all precious you'd have to read feed I [TS]

  didn't have to read feed those but that [TS]

  was many moments strung together that uh [TS]

  I did not joy I think my favorite think [TS]

  those are the Doctor Who flash podcasts [TS]

  uh just because it gives me someone to [TS]

  be with on Christmas so stop no Jason [TS]

  I've got a new favorite moment i also [TS]

  enjoy the fact that we had we have a [TS]

  Google document with a future episodes [TS]

  and the doctor who christmas special is [TS]

  there and the only panelist who is [TS]

  listed as being on it for the next one [TS]

  is me obviously have nothing else to do [TS]

  on Christmas we look at Scott don't know [TS]

  how that happened but yes the guy you're [TS]

  coming christmas in my house this year [TS]

  oh my mom's coming for Christmas but [TS]

  it's but then we'll be at his house for [TS]

  Christmas that's true that's true i'll [TS]

  be away haha well playoff Scott is all [TS]

  alone with how you are rather his [TS]

  nemesis when do you have a favorite and [TS]

  least favorite as usual have 17 no I i [TS]

  would like to say I only German doubt [TS]

  Colton moment quite a bit i've listed [TS]

  that was the absolute listen to [TS]

  interview with him i thought that was [TS]

  really lovely at the end it was kind of [TS]

  funk we haven't pulled in too many folks [TS]

  like that the past i hosted episode 42 [TS]

  so i'll be conceited and say I liked it [TS]

  but it was partly because I got a [TS]

  slightly different crew than the usual [TS]

  is a lot of non regulars and everyone [TS]

  had a different memory and instead of [TS]

  take on douglas adams including our [TS]

  special guest George Graham who had [TS]

  worked with douglas adams of a software [TS]

  company that did some of the interactive [TS]

  games like a starship titanic and I just [TS]

  I enjoyed the fact that we got all these [TS]

  facets of douglas adams who is a totally [TS]

  interesting guy we're able to explore [TS]

  all of them [TS]

  with people having different experiences [TS]

  with different aspects of the work you [TS]

  did that was that was fun [TS]

  great and John do you have any any [TS]

  favorites or your least favorites and I [TS]

  was thinking I because I will I'll brag [TS]

  about the fact that i have no least [TS]

  favorites and I think the reason I have [TS]

  no least favorite moments is that I [TS]

  strategically choose which episodes are [TS]

  gonna be I saw her for example it out a [TS]

  lot of the book episodes i can tell [TS]

  right away like I'm not gonna like that [TS]

  book and it's like it you know so all [TS]

  even the books all the book episodes [TS]

  have been on i have fond memories of [TS]

  like you know the name of the wind books [TS]

  in that series like even though I said I [TS]

  said critical things that my fine [TS]

  memories of reading those their kind of [TS]

  fun like it ready player one with short [TS]

  you know script to read it wasn't you [TS]

  know and basically i'm mostly picking [TS]

  episodes but I feel like I have [TS]

  something to say about it that's [TS]

  exciting to me so i have no least [TS]

  favorites of my favorites [TS]

  I you know as usual dance no man sorry [TS]

  to say the star wars ones i mostly [TS]

  because before we did them you know [TS]

  we're always like oh we're going to do [TS]

  this nerd podcast but eventually we'll [TS]

  talk about Star Wars just kinda like out [TS]

  there and I was secretly afraid that [TS]

  when it came daunting [TS]

  yeah when we came to the star wars ones [TS]

  like that there that we would you know [TS]

  it would just be like that we wouldn't [TS]

  have much say cause what can you say [TS]

  about Star Wars these things we've been [TS]

  living Our entire life's like yeah star [TS]

  was cool right guys [TS]

  yeah sorry but then like but just in the [TS]

  New Hope episode like you know 10 [TS]

  minutes same it became clear that we [TS]

  have an infinite number of words to say [TS]

  about Star Wars and that they weren't [TS]

  the same things that I had heard unlike [TS]

  you know because you all had discussions [TS]

  about star with other people and other [TS]

  things in her other podcasts and watch [TS]

  movies and like I felt like we were [TS]

  there was a a deep front of stuff that [TS]

  we could talk about and that it was a [TS]

  new and interesting things like you know [TS]

  the other people say things that I [TS]

  hadn't thought of and i would say things [TS]

  that I thought that everyone was in all [TS]

  their heads but they said they hadn't [TS]

  thought of before and it was just like [TS]

  that was exciting to me to see that even [TS]

  a month in such a tired topic of star [TS]

  wars that we all just had baked into our [TS]

  lives among people who already know each [TS]

  other and you would think already have [TS]

  discussed all these things but no that [TS]

  was just it was so much more there it [TS]

  makes me think for every topic that we [TS]

  ever done that in theory we could go you [TS]

  know 78 hours just talking about any one [TS]

  of these one thing [TS]

  just do this and there's so much there [TS]

  that such a deep well you know that was [TS]

  a that we didn't know for the first one [TS]

  that was gonna go because we ended up [TS]

  going for two and a half hours and [TS]

  there's a moment that a most people [TS]

  didn't hear although i did tacking on [TS]

  the beginning of the second episode [TS]

  we're very quietly while we were talking [TS]

  great moss kind of covered his [TS]

  microphone up and whispered to his wife [TS]

  I'm sorry this is gone on twice as long [TS]

  as I expected already i just kept going [TS]

  either against a great knife was like [TS]

  quietly singing the Star Wars theme to [TS]

  himself rocking back and forth [TS]

  yeah but we did hear a lot about his [TS]

  childhood in that episode we did and how [TS]

  much Star Wars meant to him but that was [TS]

  cool it was really cool and I think [TS]

  among the our listeners the star wars [TS]

  episodes are by far the most popular and [TS]

  I you know I would throw into that the [TS]

  via where's the Lost Ark episode i [TS]

  really like i do enjoy those classic [TS]

  movie episodes where I feel like I've [TS]

  seen it and know everything about it and [TS]

  then I hear somebody else's perspective [TS]

  and it really changed my perspective on [TS]

  the movie plus i get the the joy of [TS]

  watching that movie that again with an [TS]

  eye toward the podcast and taking notes [TS]

  and noticing things even then that I [TS]

  hadn't really noticed before just [TS]

  because i'm being a little more paying a [TS]

  little more attention and thinking about [TS]

  it a little more critically my least [TS]

  favorite you know I i wanted one here i [TS]

  know i can say is I'm gonna get the real [TS]

  genius episode because that's the [TS]

  episode that that that I i can actually [TS]

  go back and listen to you learn my ways [TS]

  of John circulon but but i'm not you [TS]

  know actually that my worst experience [TS]

  was that there's an episode we did the [TS]

  comic book club called the number ones [TS]

  and it we had huge technical [TS]

  difficulties and it was right when we [TS]

  were on started on five by five and i [TS]

  had an Benjamin on the on that episode [TS]

  and so of course it's like hey guy who [TS]

  runs the podcast network that my podcast [TS]

  is now on let's have crippling audio [TS]

  issues and multiple and I honestly don't [TS]

  even know what we talked about in that [TS]

  episode because i was spending all my [TS]

  time pressing buttons so that there [TS]

  weren't wasn't like horrible audio [TS]

  feedback if we switch microphones and [TS]

  that was really in really embarrassing [TS]

  and then he had faith korpi was on [TS]

  because she was in the studio then so [TS]

  it's like you want her onto she reads [TS]

  comic books I said sure [TS]

  night wasn't prepared to ask her [TS]

  questions and it was a yeah that was [TS]

  really bad so from my perspective that [TS]

  one was the one that killed me because [TS]

  it was just it was so embarrassing and [TS]

  that and the technical stuff so bad and [TS]

  you know I guess as somebody who had its [TS]

  most of these episodes [TS]

  that's the stuff that always sticks with [TS]

  me is those you know when something goes [TS]

  horribly wrong [TS]

  technically and we have to try and make [TS]

  the best of it [TS]

  so John syracuse of you know driving [TS]

  over one of my favorite movies from the [TS]

  eighties just it will put in second [TS]

  place after the catastrophic failure of [TS]

  microphones see I like real genius you [TS]

  know we should revisit the real genius [TS]

  revisited like i did i just don't like [TS]

  how much as you did when I was [TS]

  objectively was your love of the movie [TS]

  that was out of proportion that I [TS]

  thought it's not like I you know I'm [TS]

  sitting here dwelling a real genius and [TS]

  I hate it [TS]

  Jason it's it's a trap you know it's [TS]

  going to bed now we recorded episode of [TS]

  my parents house because I was there for [TS]

  spring break with my family and I every [TS]

  time I walk into that room when I visit [TS]

  my parents I think oh this is where it [TS]

  happened [TS]

  haha man it's fine [TS]

  alright uh see I really want to get [TS]

  Steve let's on here so that we can kill [TS]

  him because we promised we'd kill [TS]

  somebody [TS]

  Steve lots o hey Jason how's it going [TS]

  you know I want to congratulate you on [TS]

  although you were not one of the top [TS]

  five panelists selected to be in this [TS]

  episode you were the creator of the [TS]

  defining fantastic moment incomparable [TS]

  history and the first hundred episodes [TS]

  which was your very canny drafting of [TS]

  Skeletor in the character draft are you [TS]

  guys doing episode right now [TS]

  no we're not no we're not in New York [TS]

  you weren't you weren't not invited to [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah cause I'm just sitting here all by [TS]

  myself I you know in a hotel room in the [TS]

  dark so doing a podcast would have been [TS]

  a nice break [TS]

  yeah it kind of would have but seeing as [TS]

  you guys aren't doing an episode or [TS]

  anything that's a that's cool that's ok [TS]

  alright so what happened now [TS]

  oh nothing nothing ok nothin just [TS]

  checking in [TS]

  just making sure you're okay oh yeah I'm [TS]

  my I just tightened up this rope [TS]

  all right watch out for laser pointers [TS]

  all right that's right well we we have [TS]

  promised somebody would die in this [TS]

  episode because that that adds to the [TS]

  drama so what kind of kind of darkens [TS]

  that up a bit doesn't it yeah it was [TS]

  always going to say so so good luck with [TS]

  that Steve and we'll talk to you later [TS]

  oh hey it's a it's been good knowing you [TS]

  i mean i talkin to ya [TS]

  yeah thanks good congratulations on [TS]

  mescaline rethink know that was great [TS]

  ya allah i'll put that in my note okay [TS]

  yeah let's everybody [TS]

  oh that was missing deliciously awkward [TS]

  done my ignorance [TS]

  mm I don't have a new least favorite [TS]

  moment [TS]

  yeah that will be used to square hitch [TS]

  not all right I don't cleanse favorite [TS]

  moments [TS]

  what's that it Stephen Fry was that [TS]

  doesn't percent know that's my favorite [TS]

  the affair actually early was was a [TS]

  doctor Sherlock in the multi man that [TS]

  was that was red and John Syracuse's [TS]

  first episode I was that's good times [TS]

  and then Dan and Glenn and Scott and I [TS]

  were the guests on the on our first [TS]

  episode that we did so you guys were [TS]

  there from the very start [TS]

  that's right we're getting over the fact [TS]

  that you didn't ask me to be on the [TS]

  Indiana Jones craters Lost Ark episode I [TS]

  didn't I I just don't think i was [TS]

  thinking if only I knew then what I know [TS]

  now that's something you should have [TS]

  discussed that would be the origin story [TS]

  can have an episode with the origin [TS]

  story being comfortable because I'll i [TS]

  have some vague recollections of how it [TS]

  came to be but I think they're wrong so [TS]

  Jason should tell you may have we have [TS]

  we have two was their way back to spider [TS]

  is already that's that's that's exactly [TS]

  know there was like an email thread that [TS]

  yet [TS]

  I think Glenn was involved with that [TS]

  basically ruined everything and then we [TS]

  had a podcast 400 up again i think i was [TS]

  actually how did I realize everything in [TS]

  the best house [TS]

  this should be hella podcast really part [TS]

  of it yeah would it be great if we could [TS]

  talk about this stuff i think was a [TS]

  phrase that was bandied about [TS]

  and here we are well this is all part of [TS]

  my evil plan you know ended up so 200 [TS]

  i'll reveal reveal it got back last us [TS]

  all but you're only halfway we're [TS]

  playing the long game here too [TS]

  by done lots will come back from the [TS]

  dead you will be tuned folks like elit [TS]

  or he'll be back he'll be alive in the [TS]

  next episode just like Skeletor I yeah [TS]

  John it was a it was an interesting day [TS]

  I just didn't know I mean we were just [TS]

  we were just trying to figure it out and [TS]

  and I do like to take some credit for [TS]

  your appearance on a popular podcast [TS]

  that you now have because I felt like we [TS]

  got there we got you we got you on the [TS]

  air first or at least early on but you [TS]

  know if we were still those early [TS]

  episodes are kind of messy and we're [TS]

  figuring it out and and then we kind of [TS]

  hit our group so but I was surprised I I [TS]

  my recollection was that you and red [TS]

  both came in a little bit later but it's [TS]

  episode 3 how late could it be [TS]

  it was like because we were like that of [TS]

  our Raiders we're not even there with [TS]

  help really like Raiders we don't like [TS]

  that movie not popular [TS]

  well it you know Gruber was in that [TS]

  episode and it's really hard to get yeah [TS]

  I want to see them back never who at [TS]

  some say i'm really left on a high note [TS]

  you know your real friends are Jason I i [TS]

  searched i searched my email and I know [TS]

  that i forgot that the incomparable was [TS]

  almost called Zeppelin enthusiasts as [TS]

  epsilon enthusiasm is my preferred name [TS]

  for it but it turned out everybody else [TS]

  thought that was like being in a Led [TS]

  Zeppelin fan club [TS]

  nothing wrong with that so I got a point [TS]

  out that I i searched through my my [TS]

  inbox and found a couple of the earliest [TS]

  emails might my favorite moment though [TS]

  is so this is an email where Jason sent [TS]

  out the first podcast sample of what we [TS]

  recorded saying you know here's your [TS]

  record today it's not final but you know [TS]

  if you're curious take a listen and the [TS]

  first reply comes from John Syracuse's [TS]

  and says good episode a little Mike [TS]

  breathing by someone early on can't tell [TS]

  who [TS]

  but other than that I think if I think I [TS]

  know you will note i have purchased and [TS]

  use when you so worried [TS]

  you sound fantastic you had your [TS]

  breathing in HD from Tori stereo and no [TS]

  in instantly in order to find all these [TS]

  old emails i search for Zeppelin in my [TS]

  mouth [TS]

  see from the very start I made a being [TS]

  comparable folder which is where all of [TS]

  this email has been going since time [TS]

  immemorial which makes it very easy to [TS]

  find [TS]

  terrible terrible things but i haven't [TS]

  actually gone back until until just now [TS]

  because dan suggested it [TS]

  it's kind of amusing my recreation the [TS]

  beginning of this is that I wish your [TS]

  mother was on Twitter unfortunately [TS]

  twitter is impossible to search back in [TS]

  time for but it was a discussion about [TS]

  something like a book or a movie or [TS]

  something between like me and and and [TS]

  Jason and a couple other people at [TS]

  replying until there was no more room [TS]

  left for the text and this big long [TS]

  conversation about stuff and it was [TS]

  suggested very at some point by somebody [TS]

  yes yeah he's trying to use Twitter to [TS]

  discuss this thing will be much easier [TS]

  we just like the time and i have found [TS]

  the message i found a mess right longest [TS]

  fifth and it's the subject friend you [TS]

  you have to search for the subject geeky [TS]

  podcast yeah I is one [TS]

  yeah I found that and it is earlier [TS]

  today in the midst of discussion of [TS]

  scifi books I just suggested on twitter [TS]

  that I might start a podcast devoted to [TS]

  discussion of gear media stuff I even [TS]

  mentioned some of you as possible [TS]

  participants I'm thinking running with [TS]

  this concept so let me know what you be [TS]

  interested in being a regular or [TS]

  irregular participant Jason I'm not [TS]

  interested [TS]

  yeah kind of please take me off your man [TS]

  with hatred cast with some people [TS]

  talking at once uh-uh so if i don't [TS]

  really deliver on that rotate always [TS]

  artfully I was going to mention when we [TS]

  were talking about which I slipped my [TS]

  mind was that it is nice to have a form [TS]

  in this age of social networking where [TS]

  we are all limited 240 characters it is [TS]

  nice to have a medium where we can talk [TS]

  for three ports so what was what was the [TS]

  Twitter discussion that's what I want to [TS]

  know we have to find my guess is that it [TS]

  was it was me and like Glen and and and [TS]

  skype lies about people typically added [TS]

  to its eventually I think we started [TS]

  joking and adding more and more people [TS]

  and eventually f it was like 13 twitter [TS]

  handles and you can do like one word if [TS]

  i'm remembering that discuss yeah I [TS]

  didn't like it if I could point to a [TS]

  date you know August fifth but that was [TS]

  it yeah yeah [TS]

  well I I think we've talked about [TS]

  ourselves far too much already so we [TS]

  promise not to do it again for another [TS]

  hundred episodes or so but this was [TS]

  great i appreciate you guys coming on [TS]

  and not just in this episode but in the [TS]

  many many episodes that you've been on [TS]

  and here's to a hundred more episodes of [TS]

  the incomparable so Dan Morgan you are [TS]

  the you're in the lead by a lot so thank [TS]

  you very much for being on many episodes [TS]

  you're welcome and in the next 100 [TS]

  episodes i will pass you okay i keep [TS]

  saying to people go ahead and host [TS]

  episodes without me because that my [TS]

  first let's look for more episodes we [TS]

  just they're still McCann there in the [TS]

  camera they're gonna be rolling out and [TS]

  all those suckers out just one major [TS]

  that's kind of airdrop it's like [TS]

  everyone you have ever seen [TS]

  yep and lex is not any of them of course [TS]

  not because he hasn't seen anything [TS]

  serenity Caldwell half of all the [TS]

  episodes I I cannot believe it you've [TS]

  been on half the episode so thank you [TS]

  very much [TS]

  can I you're welcome it has been a [TS]

  pleasure i even when I end up reading [TS]

  books like The Magicians oh I suffer [TS]

  through it for the two you know [TS]

  dedication of being on the income below [TS]

  you can if there's a book you don't like [TS]

  yeah have you ready for your face or [TS]

  deadline i had i did read feet i did not [TS]

  read deadline out everybody [TS]

  I think you have to stop yeah [TS]

  complainings we don't we're not [TS]

  complaining here we're just criticizing [TS]

  Oh what we didn't carry a heinlein Scott [TS]

  multi-year one behind serenity Caldwell [TS]

  so you can just sneak on past and blow [TS]

  into second place through in a few [TS]

  string together everything I said in all [TS]

  of my appearances it probably equals [TS]

  like three of everyone else's yeah [TS]

  basically would be the running time of [TS]

  all steve lets his appearances from [TS]

  somebody please make that supercut got [TS]

  Mykelti only of the incompetent 100 [TS]

  episodes please [TS]

  yeah that would be great that's like a [TS]

  sniper that i'll be the funniest episode [TS]

  ever be very short but you'll be home [TS]

  lyrics rimshots after everything because [TS]

  he is the sniper silenced sniper of [TS]

  comedy [TS]

  just wait in the weeds [TS]

  everybody talks and then he goes boom [TS]

  and then issued Steve less than the head [TS]

  and that's right all over from there [TS]

  it's a mercy killing really John [TS]

  syracuse oh thank you very much for [TS]

  being on episode three and 42 more after [TS]

  that you know I'm never going to be on [TS]

  as many episodes as the other guys [TS]

  because I just don't read many books and [TS]

  yet percentage that are about books but [TS]

  I hope my I've shown my dedication for [TS]

  example i remember in the New Hope [TS]

  episode i was getting over a cold and I [TS]

  had lost my voice for days leading up to [TS]

  that was like just got to get my voice [TS]

  back enough to be able to croak my way [TS]

  through a new hope and I did it and if [TS]

  you go back and listen to that episode I [TS]

  sound awful [TS]

  that's the congratulation i have I [TS]

  appreciate us and and you have read I [TS]

  mean you've read a couple thousand page [TS]

  books for this podcast to you shouldn't [TS]

  sell yourself short [TS]

  it's patrick rothfuss books they don't [TS]

  read themselves they're very long very [TS]

  creepy it if they did they might be very [TS]

  great [TS]

  well you know audiobooks it i guess they [TS]

  do read themselves really if you buy the [TS]

  audio book Glenn fleischmann you've been [TS]

  on 30 episodes and everyone in every one [TS]

  of them your cleansing because that's [TS]

  what you do [TS]

  thanks for being here it's sort of my [TS]

  job the show Jason I want to thank you [TS]

  for the time and effort you put into [TS]

  this one of those fun things i do a [TS]

  regular basis and I appreciate you [TS]

  making this all happen on a regular [TS]

  basis and i also appreciate unlike [TS]

  perhaps some listeners I do appreciate [TS]

  the titles the show because for me they [TS]

  bring back i can read dr. Sherlock in [TS]

  the multi man and the whole episode [TS]

  floods back my head that's good [TS]

  and in that case if it's an episode you [TS]

  liked then then that's very good [TS]

  so for the next hundred episodes and [TS]

  beyond you know we'll be back with a new [TS]

  episode of the uncomfortable in the next [TS]

  week or two and until then thanks [TS]

  everybody for listening [TS]

  if you people didn't listen to this [TS]

  podcast well I guess we've revealed that [TS]

  we would still do it but we would [TS]

  probably swear a lot more and not wear [TS]

  pants [TS]

  so thank you for keeping us in line dear [TS]

  listeners until next time this is jason [TS]

  aldean comparable thanks for listening [TS]

  again goodnight [TS]

  their story [TS]