0:00:00the incomparable pod test number 96 jun
0:00:10welcome back to the cover podcast I'm
0:00:12your host Jason snail and i am here to
0:00:15with three lovely panelists to talk to
0:00:18you about hugo awards this is something
0:00:20that we've done i think all three years
0:00:22of the incomparable existence we're
0:00:24going to talk about books that were
0:00:26nominated for the hugo award this year
0:00:29the hugo award is an award bestowed by
0:00:31science fiction fans on the best novel
0:00:33and also various categories of short
0:00:35stories and TV shows and movies and
0:00:36things like that and I've always sort of
0:00:39treated it with some degree of reverence
0:00:41because I I sort of had a quest to read
0:00:44all the hugo winning novels and for the
0:00:46last few years I've read all the
0:00:47nominees and I voted in the hugo awards
0:00:49because although I sort of treated the
0:00:52hugo awards as the Oscars of science
0:00:54fiction in many ways it's the people's
0:00:56choice awards of science fiction and
0:00:58that anybody can pay to be a voter and
0:01:00then vote and that explains perhaps the
0:01:02quality of some of the selections but be
0:01:05that as it may be we are going to talk
0:01:06about it because it was always a way for
0:01:08me to to to get some books that i could
0:01:11read and and i feel you breathe the
0:01:13nominees that sounds like a perfectly
0:01:14good idea
0:01:15I question this idea this year but I i
0:01:18still read them all and i'm joined by
0:01:20people who've read various combinations
0:01:22of honored scifi books this year
0:01:25first up the man who reads everything my
0:01:28partner in crime when it comes to
0:01:29discussing a book a cold deadline that
0:01:32will be coming up it's scott McNulty hi
0:01:34Scott Jason I blame you for making me
0:01:38read another book by mirror I'm sorry I
0:01:40blame the voters I swear it was not me i
0:01:44didn't want to read it either but I did
0:01:45just like you because we are committed
0:01:48to the incredible i do it for the people
0:01:51yeah that's right it is for the people
0:01:53it's because we love
0:01:54exactly so I also joining me today you
0:01:58may have heard him
0:01:59murmuring to himself in the background
0:02:01there it's glenn fleischmann who also
0:02:02reads many things I glen i think you're
0:02:04hearing me
0:02:05breathe deeply that was the that's what
0:02:07you heard some oxygen before we get
0:02:09started it's always going to write it
0:02:10ok so I appreciate you do this every
0:02:11year i call this
0:02:13it's Hugo remo is how I think of it
0:02:16ok it's it's a i read Moby books this
0:02:19one it's huge going away reading moment
0:02:23it's exactly something like that
0:02:25also joining us are our other panelists
0:02:28is the great and powerful Monty Ashley
0:02:31hi Monty you go girl
0:02:35haha wow you know goodnight everybody
0:02:40and everything I could have everybody
0:02:41else loses but Monty weeks
0:02:43yeah I so hope so i guess i should start
0:02:49by saying that we'd actually we kind of
0:02:51called some of these books in progress
0:02:54that we did a an entire episode of the
0:02:56uncomfortable about George RR Martin's A
0:02:58Dance with Dragons pop culture
0:03:00phenomenon the ice and fire books in the
0:03:03HBO series and I and we did so you know
0:03:06we can't put ourselves on the back too
0:03:08much but it did get nominated for hugo
0:03:10award i find this funny since its you
0:03:12know this fifth book in a impenetrably
0:03:16long book series so I i pity the person
0:03:20who tries to read all the hugo nominees
0:03:22and hasn't read all the books that lead
0:03:24up to this much like I pity the people
0:03:26who tried to read cryo burn having not
0:03:29read the 18 previous Miles Vorkosigan
0:03:32books but you know
0:03:33them's the breaks I'd high five people
0:03:35love the series however is probably
0:03:38easier to get into then a dance with
0:03:41dragons without any having read the
0:03:42previous volumes because I think she
0:03:44does a good job of kind of making them a
0:03:46little bit self-contained yeah yeah
0:03:49and-and-and Dance with Dragons is just
0:03:52that you know it's the next thousand
0:03:53pages exactly i am surprised anyone
0:03:56thought a dance with dragons one of the
0:03:58best five novels of the United seems to
0:03:59be the consensus of of the podcast
0:04:01episode we did too is that is that there
0:04:03are good parts in it but there were also
0:04:05parts we didn't really like and you know
0:04:07I thought it was better than the
0:04:08previous book and I really like the
0:04:10Theon Greyjoy stuff that's in it but but
0:04:13you know it was a you know it was a
0:04:16middle chapter ii kind of setting things
0:04:18up and moving some stuff along and I'm
0:04:20trying to remember the other thing that
0:04:21bugged me about it was this sort of
0:04:23unnecessary cliffhangers where there's
0:04:25some cliffhangers where you're like yeah
0:04:26yeah you know you're going to resolve
0:04:29that in one chapter next time and it's
0:04:31not going to be that big a deal and so
0:04:32why are you were coming back we read
0:04:35this far we're going to read some more
0:04:36why do you need the cliffhanger but I
0:04:38don't know some so Monty do you kind of
0:04:41go along with that you read the dance
0:04:42with dragons right so no no no you just
0:04:46really want to do
0:04:47yeah i finished the second book am I the
0:04:49only one here who read that book then
0:04:51you have it
0:04:53Oh Scott rado remember I've read all are
0:04:55you ready will make everything you read
0:04:57every remember do you remember any of
0:04:59that those that I do i do I think the
0:05:01reek stuff like jason said was fantastic
0:05:03yeah do i do find it
0:05:05I don't find it puzzling that it's been
0:05:06nominated mostly because of the
0:05:08juggernaut that is the game of thrones
0:05:10right now sure especially since people
0:05:13like everybody is reading these books
0:05:15now I was at a potluck awhile back and
0:05:19one of my friends turned to me and said
0:05:22hey Scott have you read any of these
0:05:24game with Rome books and I said haha
0:05:26let me tell you something I've read them
0:05:28all before they were cool ah and what he
0:05:33was not impressed and then we can
0:05:34interesting by asking what happens in
0:05:36the menu couldn't remember how was I
0:05:37have no idea what's going to have them
0:05:39and then I had another person at the
0:05:42party I said oh yeah my mom is reading
0:05:45those books how it happened i wanted to
0:05:48okay now we can no longer read them
0:05:50that's right we can't we can't read this
0:05:51out
0:05:52we're out the coolness has has evacuated
0:05:55well you know I i enjoyed parts of it
0:05:58and other parts were fine and I I'm kind
0:06:00of committed to that series so I was
0:06:01happy to get another installment and but
0:06:04it is funny that the stuff that I think
0:06:06sticks with me the most is the is the
0:06:08the reek stuff and also you know maybe
0:06:13some of the stuff with uh you know I'm i
0:06:17don't know i mean so it's not sticking
0:06:19with me that well is it if I can't
0:06:20remember the guy the guy who's like the
0:06:22maybe another air and he's got his whole
0:06:25like he emerges from out of the boat on
0:06:28the river and all that that was kind of
0:06:30interested in the whole whole journey of
0:06:33of on that boat with the various strange
0:06:36people that are on it out the east but
0:06:38no I I don't know yeah I who do we
0:06:42really didn't yet another person playing
0:06:45the game of thrones and it's also funny
0:06:47it's you know whatever you guys talk
0:06:48about george RR martin like I gave up on
0:06:50him in the nineteen eighties I'm like
0:06:51hipster giver upper on Martin or and so
0:06:55I know he's incredibly popular right now
0:06:57but I just I found his style sort of
0:06:59unreadable back then and nothing I've
0:07:01heard since has made me want to devote
0:07:02the seven or eight years necessary after
0:07:05yeah yeah let's talk about wild cards
0:07:08right now I gave up on wild cards after
0:07:10like the eighth book so those came out
0:07:12faster because he enlisted other writers
0:07:15but I i did like rat wild cards though I
0:07:18liked it a lot
0:07:18yeah but it seemed like it had really
0:07:21good ideas and set up a lot of stuff and
0:07:23then kept going on and on and never
0:07:25really got any never know
0:07:27no well I mean I aight you got sort of
0:07:29got the sense i guess they're rebooting
0:07:30that but I you sort of got the sense of
0:07:31wild cards that you know there was
0:07:33nobody really in charge and he was just
0:07:35he and his friends kind of playing
0:07:36around with stuff and so there wasn't
0:07:38there wasn't like any ultimate storyline
0:07:42that was going to happen it was just
0:07:43let's just play around in this world
0:07:45yeah it's just always thought he was
0:07:46always thought he was sort of second or
0:07:48third rate in the scheme of like
0:07:50interesting people to read but he's
0:07:51pretentious he's a working writer he
0:07:53sort of pulpy right and I mean I always
0:07:55respect someone who produces even if
0:07:57they pander a little as long as they do
0:07:59the things they want people like what
0:08:00they do and it's not horrific i mean
0:08:02people certainly do like it and it's fun
0:08:04so I'm not going to criticize him for
0:08:06that I just never liked his writing and
0:08:08so whenever he gets the nomination with
0:08:09like this I'm like yes the popularity
0:08:11contest people are all reading it yes
0:08:13they nominated because they it's the one
0:08:14thing it's the only book you know he
0:08:16does it prevent anything else from being
0:08:18nominated because it's the only goal
0:08:20oriented exactly yeah very much yeah I
0:08:23know I although i'll just say it's not
0:08:24the worst nominee so there you go
0:08:26oh it is now it's easier this yes our
0:08:29Fault in Our from the moving on
0:08:32yes uh we should talk about we did it we
0:08:34also devote an entire show to embassy
0:08:36town by China Mieville i love to talk
0:08:40about that for another hour can we do
0:08:41that is so lots of people didn't like
0:08:44embassy town i liked it although I
0:08:47didn't love it and it was definitely a
0:08:48letdown after the city and the city but
0:08:50I i found
0:08:51it kind of fascinating and interesting
0:08:52and i like i like how ambitious China
0:08:54Mieville is he's a good writer even if
0:08:57there are some issues with it its
0:08:59execution so we do a little capsule
0:09:01summary because not everyone will read
0:09:03all these and you're covered that with
0:09:04with dances with drag and said you know
0:09:06the embassy town is it's kind of a
0:09:09sprawling novel but it's a woman who
0:09:10she's supposed to be a navigator to help
0:09:13move ships between stars takes awhile to
0:09:15move stuff there's some interesting
0:09:16stuff that's of course abandoned later
0:09:18about what the spaces like between the
0:09:20Emirates the stream of hyperspace kind
0:09:22of twisted space that they have a gate
0:09:24which is really kind of cool and they
0:09:26introduced it for a while and then let's
0:09:27go on and this interesting things about
0:09:28interstellar commerce that are actually
0:09:29sort of cool and there's robotics which
0:09:31is sort of cool and there's alien
0:09:33species that's very hard to talk to on
0:09:35this planet that Earthlings have sort of
0:09:37settled a little bit of with permission
0:09:38of these alien bug like species and the
0:09:41embassy town on this alien planet the
0:09:43humans are there and then they teach the
0:09:47aliens bad ideas and everything goes
0:09:50awry
0:09:50so without going going to far down and I
0:09:52know the reason I like this book is
0:09:53because i was i was a communication
0:09:55major and not the kind of like TV and
0:09:57radio kind the social science human
0:09:58communication kind and and marty is
0:10:01rolling his eyes as he knows about the
0:10:02UCSD comp apartment anyway I money where
0:10:05you become major to know I was a
0:10:08literate well good for you
0:10:09I was smarter I and so you can
0:10:12appreciate the literature aspect of a
0:10:14book like this but you know I liked that
0:10:16it was really about like
0:10:17miscommunicating or weird ways of
0:10:21communicating that aren't human and the
0:10:23aliens had this strange way of
0:10:24communicating where they leave
0:10:26everything was was referential and they
0:10:29would make new references and it was a
0:10:31little like a really super high falutin
0:10:33version of that Darmok episode of Star
0:10:34Trek The Next Generation where they all
0:10:36of us speaking in metaphors but less fun
0:10:39but I did like over that I thought it
0:10:42was kind of like a hot expanded universe
0:10:45version of the logic puzzle where
0:10:47there's a tribe that always lies and
0:10:48it's always tells the truth haha yeah
0:10:51you know yeah that's it because that
0:10:53because as soon as the as soon as the
0:10:54aliens learned that you could say
0:10:56something that was counterfactual and
0:10:57not a reference to something that was
0:10:58direct that's when all hell breaks loose
0:11:01and they
0:11:02rip off their wings yeah they rip off
0:11:04their hearing limbs here's the thing
0:11:06that I would say about embassy town
0:11:07because I'm think I'm a bigger trying to
0:11:09be a fan than anybody on the the regular
0:11:11incomparable rotating cast of characters
0:11:13i don't know i'm i'm close i like it
0:11:15okay what the ok well so embassy town
0:11:17you I think you liked his time without
0:11:19it yeah but i think i think about it is
0:11:20like the first third is sort of amazing
0:11:23the middle third sort of you're like wow
0:11:26where's he going with this and last
0:11:27thing you're like oh really i mean that
0:11:30was my reaction I didn't think the
0:11:31payoff was anywhere near as good as a
0:11:34very credible setup and progression and
0:11:36that's what made the novel disappoint
0:11:38for me and that's why I think that
0:11:39Morgan was livid like red with rage yeah
0:11:41he hated III one of the things I like
0:11:43about embassy town is I felt like again
0:11:45this is maybe a good thing but also a
0:11:47bad thing about being able as he tries
0:11:49he tries so hard that MC town reads to
0:11:52me like 10 different sci-fi novels that
0:11:54he didn't have time to write and so we
0:11:56just jammed parts of them all together
0:11:58into one because he's got other stuff to
0:12:01right so he's like this part is about
0:12:02this embassy this part is about the
0:12:04navigators in this part is about the the
0:12:06war but in the Civil War that's inside
0:12:09and this part is about what happens
0:12:10after the Civil War and you know I i
0:12:12told my kids my wife read this on my
0:12:14recommendation and I was apologetic to
0:12:15her when I said we were gonna be doing
0:12:17his podcast she said no no i didn't like
0:12:19it i just did it wasn't what I expected
0:12:20and and that's that's what struck me
0:12:23about it too is like you finish the
0:12:24chapter and you'll be like wow where
0:12:25they go from here
0:12:26and the answer is somewhere completely
0:12:28different with the next chapter because
0:12:30he's always on to the next idea did you
0:12:32learn all that stuff about the immer
0:12:33forget it
0:12:35yeah yeah we're never going back out
0:12:36there till the epilogue yeah here's
0:12:39here's the thing with with me evil is so
0:12:42prolific though it's like if we don't
0:12:44like this one next year there'll always
0:12:45be another this year we've got the moby
0:12:47dick told with railroads and moles giant
0:12:50models started started on that better
0:12:52than I would have expected he's you know
0:12:54there's the rule which is if you have to
0:12:56make up words just even start the novel
0:12:58often you have to learn new words and
0:13:00maybe you shouldn't start its kind of
0:13:01called without even central like I like
0:13:03to FM and I loved Anna so NM is about
0:13:06that it justifies it complete yeah
0:13:07absolutely anything rewired my brain I
0:13:09feel like me about that some of that
0:13:11seriously and evil embassy tended too
0:13:13much sitting in the city was a great
0:13:15it was a very bare detective novel
0:13:17option of rewiring the brain so but i
0:13:20think the embassy town up it deserves to
0:13:22be in the hugo finalists that wouldn't
0:13:24you agree even with its failings I think
0:13:26it's one of the best most interesting
0:13:27interesting how I was very happy for it
0:13:29to be nominated
0:13:30yeah there's a specific line in embassy
0:13:32town that I want to complain about here
0:13:34on the Internet
0:13:34yes latah at one point near the end the
0:13:38main character says I told him
0:13:40revelation was spoiled for him but I can
0:13:43retain it for you here which is China's
0:13:46excuse for a first-person character not
0:13:48telling us what the plan is going to be
0:13:5020 pages for now and that is cheating
0:13:52yeah but there's something where you
0:13:53know your you get angry when certain
0:13:55books that will discuss later are
0:13:56nominated for words like this you think
0:13:58they don't deserve to be in the same
0:13:59company an embassy town it's like I
0:14:00don't know if i would recommend people
0:14:02read it or not I think I would because
0:14:03either they get mad after i read it i
0:14:05think it exposes them to nuke ways of
0:14:07thinking and it it moves you to an
0:14:11emotion of some kind and you can realize
0:14:14as your as you're reading it you read
0:14:15you you recognize that he is a good
0:14:18writer you may not think that he
0:14:20successfully does what he's trying to do
0:14:22with the book but I give him a lot of
0:14:24credit for trying to do something
0:14:25different ya i thought it was really
0:14:27good world-building I didn't think it
0:14:29was successful storytelling
0:14:31yeah exactly yeah i mean that an
0:14:33individual parts of it are beautifully
0:14:35written because he's a very good writer
0:14:36but the story is sort of like it again
0:14:39that's my feeling about like it keeps
0:14:41changing what it's about every chapter
0:14:42and it that isn't necessarily good
0:14:45storytelling it's like a slideshow right
0:14:47and it's like different images different
0:14:49little bits but not really the story and
0:14:52and there's a there's a whole thing
0:14:53about her like husband or blacks husband
0:14:56who disappears and comes back later
0:14:58that felt actually kind of cheap and and
0:15:00why a plot device that he needed was a
0:15:02very Stephenson real serious thing that
0:15:04happens in a quicksilver in
0:15:06cryptonomicon as a character like that
0:15:08has mentioned early on he doesn't seem
0:15:10very important at the end comes back
0:15:11into some crazy military-style thing
0:15:14that is absolutely out of nowhere and
0:15:15sort of exactly as it happens embassy
0:15:17town always irritated me in economic
0:15:19onto all right should we move on to
0:15:23let's say we touched upon we touched
0:15:25upon among others
0:15:27in a couple previous podcasts and I want
0:15:29to bring it up again only because it is
0:15:31a great and I can't believe we didn't
0:15:35just devote an entire podcast into it
0:15:37and it's going to get my vote for the
0:15:39best novel of the year because it's the
0:15:41best novel of the year i think it is by
0:15:44Joe Walton it's a story about a girl who
0:15:48is Welsh and she is in and in a school a
0:15:51private school she can take it away from
0:15:53her mother's family to her father's
0:15:55family her mother's family as well as
0:15:56her father's family is English he had
0:15:57never really known her father but she's
0:16:01taken away and put the school in England
0:16:05and shes lonely and she's starting to
0:16:06meet friends and she's reading tearing
0:16:09through the science fiction in the
0:16:10library so it's about science fiction
0:16:12but what's funny about it is it like
0:16:14like the george RR martin book is
0:16:15actually a fantasy novel because her
0:16:17mother and her family are like witches
0:16:20and there's this thing with spells and
0:16:22fairies and she has to go back to Wales
0:16:25and fight the fairies and you're
0:16:26wondering is she crazy or issue really
0:16:29reading sci-fi while living in a fantasy
0:16:32world which i think is really what it
0:16:33what it is but it's so it's so great as
0:16:36a coming-of-age story and a love letter
0:16:38to kids who are socially maladjusted and
0:16:42are finding finding a escape through
0:16:46science fiction and also meeting friends
0:16:48because there's this book club that kind
0:16:50of shows up where they were they discuss
0:16:53science fiction so it's about us in ways
0:16:55to i just i love this book it says she's
0:16:58such a great writer
0:16:59yeah it it's about how science fiction
0:17:01gives her a family of friends which is
0:17:06not only the way a lot of older
0:17:07science-fiction fans like me feel
0:17:09basically a younger science-fiction fan
0:17:11wants to feel so it really spoke to me
0:17:16although I wonder how good a book it is
0:17:18if you don't recognize every single
0:17:20title as she goes through I i missed
0:17:23half of them honestly I haven't read a
0:17:25lot of the Canon of sci-fi but I do
0:17:27enough to be like oh she's going to the
0:17:29can and when she would hit a book that I
0:17:30i have read or I know about I i would i
0:17:33would perk up a little but for me it was
0:17:35like I knew enough about it to get
0:17:37through it i didn't need to relive
0:17:39of those books that i read so it worked
0:17:40for me even though i haven't read a lot
0:17:42of that stuff we're just a few years
0:17:43behind when the book was written in
0:17:45terms of probably reading this kind of
0:17:46stuff i started reading science fiction
0:17:47pretty seriously probably right around
0:17:49there a little later and I was often
0:17:51because i buy used books or
0:17:52what-have-you I was always maybe a few
0:17:55years behind so what she was reading in
0:17:56the book takes place in 1979 1909-10 80
0:18:00right goes over the new year and what I
0:18:04think i read not exactly the sequence
0:18:06but a lot of that because it was all
0:18:07contemporary even if it was you know
0:18:09from four years before you work through
0:18:11stuff and she's reading stuff that goes
0:18:12back even a decade sometimes or or the
0:18:15revelations great what she's like oh
0:18:17james t chip tree one of my favorite
0:18:18authors will something to a podcast
0:18:20about you and she's so if he's a she and
0:18:23that great revelation and she sort of
0:18:25even comments and how people reacted to
0:18:27that as I was happening contemporarily
0:18:29yeah I I i have fun memories of going to
0:18:33the library and there's a library in the
0:18:35school librarian in this who ended up
0:18:37going to the town libraries in the
0:18:39library's figure in and I went to the
0:18:41library and I i literally I went through
0:18:43every sci-fi book in the children's
0:18:45section and I by the time i got through
0:18:47with that the librarian said you know
0:18:48there's a whole adult sci-fi section
0:18:49seriously what should I want to go to
0:18:52there right so it was so that I had to
0:18:55add that fun this to that you know she's
0:18:56she's having a hard hard time making her
0:18:58way in the world and she's reading these
0:18:59books and meeting these people and
0:19:01that's all great and then meanwhile
0:19:02she's grappling with her mother
0:19:04casting spells on her and the fact that
0:19:06she has to go back to Wales in order to
0:19:07fight the ferry ghost people which is
0:19:10like you know that happened to me too so
0:19:12I did not really identify with that part
0:19:14i mostly assumed she was crazy now no I
0:19:17also joe Walton I saw an interview with
0:19:20John Walton and she said I am outraged
0:19:22that people think you're crazy
0:19:24she's not crazy that that is actually
0:19:26happening yeah which kind of the book a
0:19:28little less interesting to me but I
0:19:30don't think it is fantastically written
0:19:32as you read you wonder for a while and
0:19:34then I finally i'm just kinda came to
0:19:36accept it's like no this is real in
0:19:37terms of the book it's totally real
0:19:39it's the matter of fact this is why
0:19:41people think that is that it's addressed
0:19:42it's it's just part of her life and she
0:19:44knows some people can't see it and she
0:19:46can but in their shades it for different
0:19:48people but it's just that is the more
0:19:50wolf of that universe and so it's not
0:19:53told the zoo ferry will let you know she
0:19:55makes fun of herself
0:19:57the main character makes fun of herself
0:19:58in how she even and how ridiculous it is
0:20:02and she's like maybe talkin new fairies
0:20:06maybe he actually knew them because gosh
0:20:07some of the stuff they do is so close
0:20:09but it's like he made up the words they
0:20:10say because they don't really talk like
0:20:12that he wanted to give them you know
0:20:14better presentation i also think that
0:20:16it's gotta be you know in part this book
0:20:18is about that the weird interface
0:20:20between fantasy and science fiction and
0:20:22I mean it's purposeful she's writing a
0:20:23fantasy novel in which the character
0:20:25read science fiction i think that's
0:20:26interesting too i think a lot of her
0:20:28readers who are wondering if it if she's
0:20:29crazy are people who are maybe a little
0:20:31more predisposed to sci-fi and a little
0:20:34less than fantasy and that's not even
0:20:35money right and if it's true she didn't
0:20:37just read science fiction to read this
0:20:38allows me amber but that's strange
0:20:40that's true she read part of highlands
0:20:42glory road before pitching it decided to
0:20:45send all right fair enough but she's
0:20:47reading all the general stuff and she
0:20:48lives in a world where their fantasy
0:20:50elements that are absolutely real true
0:20:52and I don't think I think that certainly
0:20:53it helps if you are a sci-fi fantasy fan
0:20:57reading this book but i think if you are
0:21:00someone who grew up reading anything
0:21:02no it is such a great book and you will
0:21:04really identify with the main character
0:21:06other than the whole fairy thing that it
0:21:09is just a very satisfying book and I've
0:21:11said it before but I think John Walton
0:21:13is just a fantastic writer and and so I
0:21:17think that I on in my blog post that I
0:21:19wrote about the the hugo nominees I said
0:21:21that among other among others is this
0:21:24year's dervish house in that I think it
0:21:26should win but it is not going to it's
0:21:29rather lovely as that is the thing about
0:21:31it is you read someone who writes like
0:21:33this and you and like and I think this
0:21:34toothbrush us as well you know it's not
0:21:38work to read the book she sucks you into
0:21:41the world she's painting and you're in
0:21:43that girl's life and when things happen
0:21:45that are unusual it's just part of
0:21:47what's happening
0:21:48it's just beautiful to read it's just
0:21:49she also have been captures the ordinary
0:21:52human interactions the middle of all the
0:21:53nonsense that's going on and she does
0:21:55that thing i love that any science
0:21:57fiction or fantasy author does which is
0:21:59set up expectations and then and then
0:22:01not
0:22:01them down through fantastical elements
0:22:03that are well integrated so you think of
0:22:06her father sort of a sad sack is under
0:22:08sisters thumb you know they have the
0:22:10money but as it goes on and rice should
0:22:13be spoiler horn and I want to give
0:22:14anything away i don't know the small
0:22:18spoiler fact that the sisters turn out
0:22:20to have maybe some witchy powers without
0:22:23fully understanding themselves even that
0:22:25they do and that the father is actually
0:22:26being you know sort of essentially
0:22:28mystically compelled to be under their
0:22:31thumb to do their bidding so they don't
0:22:33have to deal as much with the world i
0:22:35mean that's a little beautiful thing
0:22:36where she then relationship with her
0:22:38father shifts a little from sort of
0:22:40discussed two more pity
0:22:42mmm can i bring up one other thing for
0:22:44the book i'm going to dominate
0:22:45discussion of this book because I will
0:22:47be all of it to go ahead Glenn go ahead
0:22:50well so that would be the best thing in
0:22:51it is it is she is she introduced the
0:22:53concept of fantasy retcon what you think
0:22:56the whole business about magic doesn't
0:22:58work generally magic doesn't work about
0:23:00making something happen going forward
0:23:02it works by changing all the past events
0:23:05necessary including making people be
0:23:07born who didn't were important before in
0:23:09order to create a scenario alright she
0:23:11feels that you actually feels that the
0:23:13what's happened is the culmination of
0:23:15you know everything that's happened in
0:23:17your life is the result of spells to
0:23:18culminate in getting her where she needs
0:23:20to go right which is an interesting way
0:23:22of looking at whether that's completely
0:23:24crazy or not it's fascinating
0:23:26she doesn't know when the ferry sort of
0:23:27imply that they sort of don't have a you
0:23:30know necessarily they're like okay we
0:23:32need you to be here so we cause she's
0:23:34like did they change the school vacation
0:23:36schedule for all schools and wales and
0:23:38england in order that i could not hear
0:23:40time to meet them and then she gets
0:23:41disturbed about the book club she's like
0:23:43I don't the guy remember the book clubs
0:23:45the guy works in the library is sort of
0:23:47rude to her and cold the first week and
0:23:49then two weeks later he's lovely and
0:23:51mentions a book club they have and she's
0:23:53thinking did this 60 year old woman is
0:23:55in the book club which she never been
0:23:57born if I didn't need the book club to
0:23:59exist very very good concept i think
0:24:02it's got a great chance of winning
0:24:03because the hugo voters are people who
0:24:05go to or have memberships for worldcon
0:24:08and in many ways this book is a love
0:24:11letter to science fiction fandom so I
0:24:13think it's gonna do really well among
0:24:14the populace at @anjghie Walton is a
0:24:17very respected I mean people do love her
0:24:20and in in the in the sci-fi and
0:24:24convention going community so she's not
0:24:26like some kind of outsider person either
0:24:27so she bought she's also out there cuz
0:24:29she blogs regularly on tor.com she
0:24:31actually has done a chapter-by-chapter
0:24:33analysis of the Patrick Rothfuss books
0:24:37that we talked about on this podcast the
0:24:39name of the wind and the wise man's fear
0:24:40where she's blown my mind by doing some
0:24:43various kind of connecting the dots of
0:24:45the things in the office books so I you
0:24:48know she's out there and she's active in
0:24:50writing about this stuff too so I think
0:24:52she's got it
0:24:52I think she's got a fighting chance I
0:24:54think there may be black backlash
0:24:55against george RR martin so nobody had
0:24:57one last year welcome thing at after
0:24:59reading among others which was my first
0:25:01row Walton book I then read three more
0:25:03in short succession farthing Halfpenny
0:25:06and half a crown which are and that she
0:25:09calls it her small change trilogy
0:25:11yes which it's a it's an alt history
0:25:15that is disguised the first book at
0:25:17least disguise as an Agatha Christie
0:25:19novel and it and ends up much more like
0:25:23yes and it's fantastic yeah I haven't
0:25:26read the third one of those yet but I
0:25:27read the first two and they are they are
0:25:29spectacular
0:25:30I will i said this on the previous
0:25:31podcast i will read anything but you're
0:25:33walking now because she's not as well I
0:25:35I'm gonna go retcon having read
0:25:36everything she's written actually first
0:25:39I have to read everything she's read
0:25:41because I'm treating among others as my
0:25:44new book list there's a there's a
0:25:45website that someone has listed every
0:25:47book with a cover that she mentions in
0:25:50another's nice which pretty sure we move
0:25:55on to to Leviathan wakes let's talk
0:26:00about life takes a chance on quarry
0:26:03which is a fake name because it's
0:26:04actually George RR Martin's assistant
0:26:07assistant if and a co-author is good and
0:26:11great friend
0:26:12yes who's like an agent or works at a
0:26:17publishing company or something anyway
0:26:18so it's a it's a it's a this is a this
0:26:21is a spy
0:26:22sopra would you say Scott I would say
0:26:25that well this is a so it's interesting
0:26:27it is kind of a space after i would say
0:26:31it's a small-scale space opera because
0:26:33it's been in the solar system by Castro
0:26:35and move exactly so it's not really when
0:26:37you think space opera traditional space
0:26:39opera it's kind of a speedo
0:26:41galaxy-spanning and there are huge
0:26:43numbers of spaceships and that's not
0:26:45really what this book is it's a they are
0:26:47kind of they are within the solar system
0:26:49and they go to a different asteroids and
0:26:52planets and things but there isn't a
0:26:54large amount of kind of a vessel combat
0:27:00or anything like that right there is a
0:27:01little bit but but not a lot
0:27:04yeah so it's kind of it's certainly the
0:27:06I think the purest science fiction novel
0:27:08that has among the nominees
0:27:11uh yeah i get i guess so i mean i guess
0:27:14i guess you'd have to say it is uh it's
0:27:16it's interesting it's golden tooth
0:27:18timeframes the captain he doesn't start
0:27:21out as the captain but he ends up as the
0:27:22captain of this crew people on these
0:27:24various spaceships and then there's this
0:27:26guy Miller who's a cop on the edge a cop
0:27:29on the beat and need an asteroid and
0:27:31horny Miller and he's very top on the ad
0:27:34space cup on the edge of space wanted
0:27:35space and and he's he's fun and that he
0:27:40is a very new orange kind of guy where
0:27:43he's a you know he's a he's divorced and
0:27:47he's got a drinking problem and he has a
0:27:51partner who's come problematic as his
0:27:53partner is like a an earther he's not a
0:27:56is outside you know spacer kind of guy
0:27:59and there's a conspiracy and I and
0:28:04they're gonna take this badge way and
0:28:06actually you're part of it reminded me
0:28:07of the trick with george RR martin does
0:28:09in the first game of thrones and then a
0:28:11game of thrones where there's a prologue
0:28:14that says something really strange is
0:28:16happening and then he leaves he just
0:28:19lays it there for like 300 pages and you
0:28:22think you're reading one novel and um
0:28:25and you realize i'm only halfway through
0:28:27when this is wrapping up what is going
0:28:30to happen and then you realize oh right
0:28:31the prologue
0:28:32surely that was that what i thought it
0:28:35was are there really your thing you
0:28:37notice base vomit zombie people running
0:28:40around answers yes there are vomit
0:28:43zombies and yes vomit zombies is how he
0:28:45refers to them in the book this book I
0:28:50think there's a lot of fun to read and
0:28:52it was it was the first time I should
0:28:54admit that I i attempted to read this my
0:28:58first attempt fails because i read the
0:29:00the beginning the prologue and for
0:29:03whatever reason it did not interest me
0:29:04at all so i put it aside but I am glad
0:29:07that it was nominated for a human
0:29:09because that forced me to actually read
0:29:11the whole thing and it was once you get
0:29:13past at least once I got past the first
0:29:15like 30 pages i was hooked
0:29:18I must have stopped 29 the first time
0:29:20round I thought you'd like that
0:29:23the norrish to space detective guy part1
0:29:25he was not in the the program yeah why
0:29:29why is there not a a guy wearing a space
0:29:31for Dora that's what I say I'm he does
0:29:34like this is what I no time
0:29:36oh yeah that's right i guess a space for
0:29:38Dora finally unlocked yes governor
0:29:42I i may be wrong about this but I felt
0:29:44like the parts that weren't the space
0:29:46cop may have started life as firefly
0:29:49fanfic funds read that it is actually
0:29:53had someone grabbed his kind of gruff
0:29:55and Andy yeah you gotta growth captain
0:29:59who's got a code of honor plays by his
0:30:01own rules
0:30:02he's flanked by a huge weapon obsessed
0:30:04guy and his second-in-command a super
0:30:06confident lady of big ethnicity
0:30:08yeah it was a great engineer is a
0:30:10fantastic engineering has anything was
0:30:12spittin whatever and they do a lot of
0:30:14quickie things the middle of fights and
0:30:16you know he looked over and shrug i
0:30:19thought you knew
0:30:20parts of it felt very weenie in a good
0:30:24way but I especially liked media are
0:30:28holding the sort of the camera is sort
0:30:31of grizzled he was awfully grizzled even
0:30:33though i think he was supposed to be
0:30:34quite young at the same time still
0:30:36unclear and lost trying to help these
0:30:37supposed to be Grizzles before his tag
0:30:39which must be handsome and
0:30:41and vigorous and virile he's personally
0:30:45and character because he is for a guy
0:30:46who's not in charge he is super
0:30:48competent it with the one exception
0:30:50which is that he can't shut up and he
0:30:53says stupid stuff over public airwaves
0:30:55friday and add and constants that are
0:30:58true but in politic but other than that
0:31:01he's like super comp confident which I
0:31:03thought was kind of funny because he's
0:31:04not like he was ever the captain before
0:31:07he was not the captain before but then
0:31:10the captain and many other people died
0:31:12and he's the cabinet but he had some
0:31:14great lines like it's like you know just
0:31:16for once I'd like to get off a ship or
0:31:17planet and not have it blown up behind
0:31:20when he does get a complex about that to
0:31:21ride a horse like triggers keep stopping
0:31:23well they over and over again and then
0:31:25but ended the moments where the stories
0:31:27intersect that are actually very funny
0:31:29because the two main characters you're
0:31:30like oh these are my buddies and
0:31:31following through here they hate each
0:31:33other
0:31:33I said okay we're making sure they're
0:31:36forced to work together of course they
0:31:37are because it's an odd couple and their
0:31:39force towards justice in space
0:31:42I thought it was fun it wasn't deep i
0:31:45thought it lasted maybe a hundred fifty
0:31:48pages to libraries among them like yes I
0:31:51just thought that felt like the end and
0:31:53then it just kind of kept going kept
0:31:54looking at the page count i was like
0:31:56Shirley we're wrapping up here like oh
0:31:58my god on that page like 400 off 500
0:32:01something i don't think so the Miller
0:32:05gets obsessed with solving this murder
0:32:09or looking for the script about a girl
0:32:11it's about a girl right get obsessed and
0:32:14he starts having conversations with her
0:32:16and kind of hallucinates about her and I
0:32:19thought that was i I would and another
0:32:22novel that's nominated has a similar
0:32:23device and I thought it was much better
0:32:25executed in the violin wakes then in
0:32:28another of the nominees
0:32:30yeah I i guess so i thought that was
0:32:33weird but it was sort of like you know
0:32:35we accept that he's kind of gone crazy
0:32:37and is obsessed with it and that worked
0:32:39for me the thing that bugged me i think
0:32:40was the was in the other in the parallel
0:32:43story there's this whole subplot about
0:32:45you know
0:32:47oh I'm the captain but I didn't know the
0:32:49girl
0:32:50who is the second in command but I can't
0:32:52do anything because I'm the captain but
0:32:54I love her and then she's like but I've
0:32:56always loved you and it's like well then
0:32:59let's do it and they go off and then
0:33:02it's all weird and awkward and I I
0:33:04thought that was just so bizarre that it
0:33:06was like such a strange like is I don't
0:33:09know it seemed a bit much to me that was
0:33:11that was just like really is that what
0:33:13do we want to have what we got vomit
0:33:15zombies here do we really need the
0:33:16unrequited love of the captain and I
0:33:19will also say there is like let's talk
0:33:21about let's talk about science now the
0:33:23protomolecule like a good device but
0:33:26they there's something I don't know
0:33:28there's something both like interesting
0:33:29and sloppy it's like this thing this
0:33:31protomolecule whatever it is can like
0:33:33take over any life-form encounters and
0:33:36it's it's anaerobic somehow they have to
0:33:39vomit out to spread it and constantly
0:33:41constantly around places in which the
0:33:43things should be everywhere and it
0:33:45should be airborne just as particles not
0:33:48like paralyzed or whatever and they
0:33:50don't get infected like they're
0:33:51constantly constantly and things being
0:33:52blown up shot expanded seeping and
0:33:55you're like no no these guys they're
0:33:57wearing the spacesuit and there
0:33:58nope no could possibly like a little bit
0:34:01of that you know that it was when you
0:34:02have the creeping crud you have to a
0:34:04little better explanation about why the
0:34:05crud doesn't affect people that's
0:34:07troubling this is also not the only book
0:34:09that has zombies in it but it's trippy I
0:34:11i liked the premise more there's a
0:34:14there's an interstellar biological
0:34:17weapon
0:34:17yeah that we have that we sort of dodged
0:34:19a bullet on and now people have
0:34:21uncovered it and and also draw a
0:34:23parallel to the george RR martin stuff
0:34:24it's sort of like everybody's fighting
0:34:26with each other over the control of this
0:34:28thing when in fact this thing is going
0:34:30to kill us all right but its fingers a
0:34:33little alien z yeah the bio weapon
0:34:36yeah I wanted to say it was like we'd
0:34:37meet aliens but then I realized that
0:34:39happened in Alien Resurrection right I i
0:34:41love to see i love the scenes where they
0:34:43they basically have this plan where
0:34:45they're going to kill everybody on the
0:34:47one asteroid in order to test out this
0:34:49thing and they throw them in like the
0:34:50radiation and that leads to a funny
0:34:53thing where our guys get dosed with
0:34:54radiation a fatal level if they don't
0:34:56get help and they're not sure if the
0:34:58ship is still there and they have to get
0:34:59through all of the series of things and
0:35:01I thought that would make a good i mean
0:35:03that's like the thing
0:35:04put in the movie right it's like a nice
0:35:05set piece that they go through where
0:35:07they think they're gonna die and trying
0:35:08to get out of this I asteroid that
0:35:10essentially everybody in it is going to
0:35:11die because they've all been infected i
0:35:13thought that was kind of cool that the
0:35:14the villains of the Peace the corporate
0:35:17corporate villains of course it's a
0:35:19corporation that's very alien to
0:35:20actually r-ark sabotaging this in order
0:35:23to test out this terrible thing that's
0:35:26gonna kill all of humanity
0:35:27I like they're desperate escape there I
0:35:30felt the radiation sickness kind of got
0:35:33forgotten towards the end of the book
0:35:34certainly by me
0:35:36yeah they got cured ya know they didn't
0:35:38cure the the only signal hills and since
0:35:41taking pills and he's probably gonna be
0:35:42all the rest of his life and Miller
0:35:44winds up you know you know what happened
0:35:46when I remember what happened to Miller
0:35:47you don't let that happen to you yeah
0:35:50Here I think I'm pretty safe that what
0:35:51happened to me but i wanted to i want to
0:35:53draw a parallel to a pair of books i was
0:35:55thinking about the alien threat thing
0:35:57like the idea that alien civilizations
0:35:59I mean there is that notion in some
0:36:00sci-fi that you see it actually quite a
0:36:03bit of the space operate stuff is that
0:36:04if you don't if humans don't expand to
0:36:06fill the universe some other more
0:36:08successful species will because even
0:36:10those spaces you know it's not virtually
0:36:12infinite there's only a finite amount of
0:36:14space in the galaxy and all habitable
0:36:16planets for a particular in a life-form
0:36:18type will be filled and there's Greg
0:36:21bear has a nice top don't know there's
0:36:23some authors you sort of write ups
0:36:24patients with Rory or you read Darwin
0:36:27radio and either way I'm right exactly
0:36:30but for just the forge of God is 97 book
0:36:33and then the sequel anvil stars are
0:36:35beautifully paired books i highly
0:36:37recommend the forge of God is earth gets
0:36:41attacked by some it's a bizarre thing
0:36:43it's like first contact then things
0:36:45started to fall apart and it turns out
0:36:46it's basically aliens using a technique
0:36:49I think they'd vaporize like one of the
0:36:50moons of jupiter in order to have the
0:36:53mass necessary to carry out the attack
0:36:55but its automated self-replicating
0:36:57machines that go through and destroy any
0:36:59other trace of life in the universe so
0:37:01that they don't wind up becoming a
0:37:02threat and trying to you know look for
0:37:04latent well later there's a series of
0:37:07books by jack mcdevitt that are like
0:37:10that too where there's basically these
0:37:11Omega clouds that come through and they
0:37:13figure out that it they're essentially
0:37:16you know they're they're intelligent
0:37:18things created not creatures but
0:37:21machines that are searching for like
0:37:24straight lines and parham parallel lines
0:37:26and things that are signs of of a heat
0:37:29of life and if they find and destroy
0:37:31planets so yeah same i think there's
0:37:32something I think there's a reasonable
0:37:34rational you know thing to say like if
0:37:37you can travel between the stars and if
0:37:39life just wants to expand then it's not
0:37:41in its not implausible this game two
0:37:43things the things that other
0:37:45civilizations with tent would
0:37:46specifically attempt to destroy all
0:37:48their life because ostensibly other life
0:37:50would spread into try to destroy them so
0:37:53but those books are great and I thought
0:37:55that's a little bit the protomolecule
0:37:56was like the you know more of a horror
0:37:58movie version of something that was very
0:38:01sleek and and well-presented now that
0:38:03pair of books I we should move on to our
0:38:09fifth book I don't you like it here is
0:38:13red deadline by mirror grant i have not
0:38:17I I was living my life and being happy
0:38:20yeah I was not okay so let's recap here
0:38:24this is the sequel to feed which is a
0:38:26book that was nominated for the hugo
0:38:28award last year and and what's worse I
0:38:30came in second
0:38:32good don't even remind always job my
0:38:35feed
0:38:37suffice it to say an incomparable
0:38:39history in our modest history of people
0:38:41who listen to be uncomfortable i think
0:38:42it goes down as the most disliked book
0:38:44but we've ever discussed Scott and I
0:38:46read it
0:38:47we really really really didn't like it
0:38:51and of course the sequel got nominated
0:38:53and scott and i looked at each other
0:38:55across the internet and said well I
0:38:57guess we have to read it like and and we
0:39:00both said what maybe it's good
0:39:03well that may be going too far but I
0:39:06wanted to be open-minded about it right
0:39:08i wanted to be open-minded despite the
0:39:09fact that I didn't like feed and as i
0:39:11read deadline a few things occurred to
0:39:14me i questioned my life now I have my
0:39:18choices that led me to this point I'm
0:39:19wondered why I was doing a podcast and
0:39:21if there are questions I but what I was
0:39:25reminded i was reminded of the things I
0:39:26liked about feed em uh
0:39:29yes in that in that the world that she
0:39:32built in feed is interesting it's got
0:39:35lots of interesting rules and some nice
0:39:37texture to it it's this world where
0:39:39there's been a zombie apocalypse but
0:39:40it's kind of under control only sort of
0:39:43not but it's not like a total apocalypse
0:39:45it's just like they that their
0:39:47infestations and occasionally there are
0:39:48outbreaks and you've got to have your
0:39:50blood tested all the time but they're
0:39:51like working on it and there the
0:39:52bloggers networks and they broadcast
0:39:55their blogs and their videos if and you
0:39:59know that all I like that part of it i
0:40:01didn't want i want i don't really see
0:40:02her world-building I mean I guess her
0:40:04world building was good the way she just
0:40:07explained all of the stuff that she
0:40:09built into the world was really clumsy
0:40:11the writing style really bothered me and
0:40:14then there's some terrible characters
0:40:15and feed that are just tell telegraphed
0:40:17villains and things like that so here is
0:40:19so as i read i was reminded of the good
0:40:20and the bad about feelings and I was
0:40:23really the best thing about feed so this
0:40:25is a spoiler so if you haven't read
0:40:26speed and you you want to read it you
0:40:30should not listen to what I'm about to
0:40:32say right uh so the main character
0:40:35narrator fee scenario here someone who
0:40:38you think I cannot die
0:40:40does in fact I think it's infected
0:40:41becomes a zombie and her brother shoots
0:40:44her in the back of the head
0:40:45yes which is is an amazing choice and it
0:40:48was it was a I give her full credit for
0:40:51writing that it was fantastic best part
0:40:54of feed the rest of it was complete and
0:40:56total crap and i would like the time i
0:41:00spent reading it back but it's as
0:41:02instead I've rested well how so
0:41:06so Scott what I can't let see what we
0:41:08can agree on here i thought this was a
0:41:11better book than feet i will agree to
0:41:13that although very low bar
0:41:15yeah but it is it is a low bar so here's
0:41:18the think I feel like she did it I feel
0:41:21like the there is there isn't a stock
0:41:23villainous character like the like the
0:41:27the conservative Republican vice
0:41:30president guy who had a mustache and did
0:41:33twist it
0:41:34I I it's true i thought that was better
0:41:36I thought then learned snidely whiplash
0:41:38she didn't do what she did in the first
0:41:40book where little
0:41:41really you know you'd be in the middle
0:41:43of a conversation and then she'd go away
0:41:45and tell you about her world building 44
0:41:47pages and then come back to the
0:41:48conversation I felt like just reset the
0:41:50world up and yes he did a little but you
0:41:53know and what she did drop in was not as
0:41:55as have painfully inserted it was it was
0:41:59a little more natural true and teacup
0:42:02Bulldogs for acute you get right right
0:42:05which is all part of the thing that
0:42:07that's the episode with that we
0:42:08discussed it was called zombie Marmaduke
0:42:10because the idea is that if dogs get too
0:42:12big then they go into zombie they become
0:42:15zombie dogs so you can only have tiny
0:42:17dogs tiny animals many many dogs
0:42:20yeah yeah and so some other than so the
0:42:22command characters brother is the
0:42:24narrator for this we we have this story
0:42:27where they are discovering that there's
0:42:29a conspiracy and below zombie-related
0:42:32conspiracy in the CDC who the CDC
0:42:35they're besties I've never trusted the
0:42:37city's no you can't they say they're
0:42:38going to cure us of things but don't
0:42:40believe them
0:42:41don't believe him first you know I i
0:42:43read the whole thing I I got to the end
0:42:47and I didn't die i thought you know I
0:42:53thought some of it was interesting I
0:42:54thought someone was bizarre we had more
0:42:55of the this very straight i mean the
0:42:58brother and sister were adopted so
0:43:00they're not genetically related know and
0:43:02she won't come out and say that they
0:43:04basically had sex with each other and
0:43:07and it's implied but they are it the
0:43:10amount of mooning that goes on about
0:43:12about over one another and about him
0:43:15about his dead sister is it is our and
0:43:17unconcernedly and then there's a scene
0:43:20in this book in which he is so this
0:43:23isn't this is working to spoil this yes
0:43:25sir
0:43:26you want to read this just stop
0:43:27listening now and never come back never
0:43:29come back to stop us take forever
0:43:31because you should not be this book but
0:43:35if you do and you don't want to be
0:43:36spoiled you should stop listening now so
0:43:38he has sex with some other chick in the
0:43:40book yes and of course he he calls out
0:43:43his sister's name in the forest set
0:43:46which is wrong on many levels because
0:43:48it's cheap and b it is disgusting
0:43:53so
0:43:54I was both disgusted and appalled as a
0:43:57reader and as someone who writes in that
0:44:01she used such a cheap and predictable
0:44:02thing
0:44:03yeah yeah you know so also I got it I
0:44:06got to say though there's a there's this
0:44:07affectation there there's only one poke
0:44:09him with a stick in this which was all
0:44:11in the first book is all about yesterday
0:44:13they are I I made note of for the first
0:44:16I have some notes that i didn't want to
0:44:19forget but mother that's what I wanted
0:44:21to talk about a c-collar income a list
0:44:23of the 50 name is a great detail about
0:44:25what about this character drinking
0:44:27drinking coke and I ok the idea is that
0:44:30he's talking to his dead sister in his
0:44:31head because she's in his head like
0:44:33smoke inside dr. McCoy's head and star
0:44:35trek 3 or something like that right
0:44:37she's in his head but far worse but far
0:44:39worse and he keeps drinking coke because
0:44:42she liked to drink Coke and it's this
0:44:44weird affectation and the amount of time
0:44:46spent detailing him opening and drinking
0:44:49soda and or coffee
0:44:51he's honoring his sister by drinking
0:44:53soda but it's like this this book might
0:44:55as well come with a six pack of coke
0:44:58just like as part of the tree book at
0:45:00that would bring some redeeming quality
0:45:02to it because I at least have some coke
0:45:04but yeah and that was annoying and so I
0:45:08mentioned about Leviathan wakes Miller
0:45:11uh you know imagining that the the dead
0:45:14girl is speaking to him and I said that
0:45:16that was done I think better than the
0:45:19similar plot device that was in this
0:45:23book and that's because every time he
0:45:27hears a George's voice he thinks to
0:45:30himself oh I am crazy and I am hearing
0:45:33my dead sister and that is crazy heat
0:45:35that she's just says that over and over
0:45:37again
0:45:38yeah at a certain point you think you
0:45:40know what you could just have him here
0:45:41his sister's voice and we the reader
0:45:45will figure out that he's probably a
0:45:48little crazy crazy
0:45:49yeah you don't yes we have the scene
0:45:51every chapter where he says something
0:45:52and somebody goes hot what like they've
0:45:54been with this guy how long now how do
0:45:56they not know I mean it's clear he's
0:45:58talking to his sister I think everybody
0:46:00got it then there's so there's a part of
0:46:02like where they go visit this crazy
0:46:03scientist who has this lab that's like a
0:46:05rogue lab and they're trying to research
0:46:06the
0:46:07zombie virus i liked it I liked that
0:46:09part and when they leave they basically
0:46:11like blow it up because they can't be
0:46:12they have to go somewhere else now
0:46:14thanks for coming and ruined it we gotta
0:46:15blow this place up now I like that you
0:46:18know that the but the the whole CDC
0:46:20thing I mean yeah it's a very very much
0:46:22i always conspiracy but the thing that
0:46:23really got me about it is but you know
0:46:25what ok first off it seems odd to me
0:46:29that there's this there's a lot of
0:46:30revelation of like oh do you know what
0:46:32this means
0:46:33mm no and then it goes for several
0:46:35chapters and then you very slowly figure
0:46:37out what it means when it might be
0:46:38actually quite clear what it means and
0:46:40you could say it and we can move on and
0:46:42then it also seems strange that there
0:46:45seems to have been very little effort to
0:46:47actually for anybody to learn anything
0:46:50about the zombie virus apparently in
0:46:51order for these want to happen which
0:46:53doesn't seem very realistic to me that
0:46:56after all these years suddenly there's a
0:46:57crack in the case where somebody's
0:46:59notice something about the zombie virus
0:47:01that's incredibly important to it so
0:47:04there's that and then the other part is
0:47:05feed the whole end of feed is that the
0:47:09guy who worked with them becomes the
0:47:11vice president of the United States and
0:47:14they were closely with the guy who
0:47:15becomes the president of the united
0:47:16states so in this book
0:47:18these people have amazing connections in
0:47:21the US government and yet at several
0:47:24points
0:47:24there's a well we can't really call him
0:47:26now he's busy
0:47:28why is the guy we have been out here
0:47:30about Holly most important thing that is
0:47:32not gonna happen
0:47:34yeah yeah oh it might be a conspiracy
0:47:36involving those real truth behind the
0:47:39zombie virus and that it might not
0:47:40actually be fatal and there's always
0:47:43lots of other things we learned to and
0:47:44the CDC is controlling everybody in the
0:47:45puppet masters but you know we know the
0:47:47vice president the president personally
0:47:48and save their lives on numerous
0:47:50occasions now and let's not bother them
0:47:52they're probably busy with legislation
0:47:54or something right here there's a new
0:47:57green act okay working on so since we're
0:47:59keeping the spoilers
0:48:01here's the here's the worst part about
0:48:02the hook which is I like the fact that
0:48:05he talks to Georgia is his sister
0:48:07because it's like well I killed her in
0:48:09the previous book but I'm gonna tell her
0:48:12how she's still in it right you can
0:48:13remember her and he's internalizing
0:48:14that's interesting
0:48:15and even though i think it was
0:48:16ham-fisted I thought it was a good
0:48:19choice and I
0:48:20hey chip bring the character bed right
0:48:22right and i like it sounded like the
0:48:23world but in the end of the book is
0:48:25because I said we've been set up because
0:48:28the carrot one character comes to them
0:48:29and and she's supposed to be dead but
0:48:31they found her clone
0:48:33oh and i will tell you once I heard the
0:48:35word clone I thought man she is not
0:48:37going to do this issue and the last
0:48:39chapter of the book is that uh that the
0:48:42dead character from the first book
0:48:44Georgia wakes up in like the CDC and his
0:48:47wife and that's an eye I so bold 3
0:48:50through the e-book across the room at
0:48:52that moment didn't you Scott I got this
0:48:54book from the library because I refused
0:48:55to pay for its I got it might mean with
0:48:59my Hugo nomination payment so i got i
0:49:02was i was hopeful that it would be
0:49:04better but I was starts better it is
0:49:06better is but that's true it is better
0:49:08and I end it should point out that you
0:49:11know we criticize these things and I'm
0:49:12sure she worked very hard on it and
0:49:14ensure she loves this and she has she
0:49:17has a lot of fans
0:49:18she's left fans and so I I appreciate
0:49:21her effort but I do not appreciate the
0:49:23final problem no I i was trying to Scott
0:49:26at I was trying to think of this has
0:49:27become sort of famous that we don't like
0:49:29these books I was trying to think about
0:49:31why I don't like it and why other people
0:49:35like it and I it because it's
0:49:36fascinating to me that she has a
0:49:37following you got nominated for the best
0:49:39novel two years in a row this series has
0:49:41got nominated so why she has a following
0:49:44she kids like zombies people like
0:49:47zombies people do like zombies and she
0:49:49really like somebody's the setting is
0:49:51fun right there there's it's this kind
0:49:54of wacky bloggers and zombies and it's
0:49:56an interesting combination that you have
0:49:58another for another thing about the the
0:50:00subfloor soso the whole one of the main
0:50:03premises of the book right is that the
0:50:05mainstream media is ineffectual now
0:50:07nobody pays attention to it it's all
0:50:09bloggers bloggers are cool
0:50:11everybody gets their news from bloggers
0:50:13we are hit over the head time time again
0:50:15bloggers are where you get your
0:50:17information from
0:50:18yeah because the mainstream media is is
0:50:21no good right
0:50:22if they exist at all I mean if they
0:50:23existed and then so this thing happens
0:50:25and there's this big like a cloud that's
0:50:28turning people into zombies right and
0:50:31you the
0:50:33in characters are a group of like the
0:50:35most world-famous bloggers and they are
0:50:38sitting in a house watching the
0:50:41mainstream media right however the
0:50:43biggest story that's happening and I was
0:50:46like wait that's the ascii Annika yeah
0:50:48why aren't they read blogs you have to
0:50:51be consistent with euro and why they
0:50:53should me there watching TV it doesn't
0:50:55make any sense
0:50:56alright so so if i don't know why i'm
0:50:58talking like this so so so I so I'm
0:51:02trying to understand why people like and
0:51:03i think it is the setting and the
0:51:04concepts involved in its fun and and all
0:51:07that and then I was trying to think why
0:51:08don't i like it and as I'm reading it
0:51:11I'm thinking okay what is it about this
0:51:12that bugs me and and you know in the
0:51:15first book it was some of the cardboard
0:51:17characters and there are a lot of there
0:51:18are a lot of cardboard characters in
0:51:19this to the know that some of the
0:51:23dialogue is I mean it's really clunky
0:51:25and I I think bottom line is I don't
0:51:28like her writing style i think the plot
0:51:30is kind of bizarre and and not very good
0:51:33the the dialogue isn't very good but
0:51:36shit the world is interesting right and
0:51:38I i think so i think the success of
0:51:40these books has a lot to do with
0:51:41interesting world and a few kind of
0:51:44dynamic characters at the center of the
0:51:46brother and the sister and they're
0:51:47fighting for you know what's right and
0:51:48yeah you know and as far as i know this
0:51:50is like the Citizen Kane of zombie
0:51:52fiction I i don't mean they're not a lot
0:51:55of great I i have read a lot of zombie
0:51:56books and maybe this is among the better
0:51:58of the zombie books but but that that's
0:52:00the thing that really I noticed about it
0:52:02is that the i just i don't like her
0:52:05writing style although i will say i
0:52:06think it's better I think that it's
0:52:08better than in feed so it is whether
0:52:11we're in feet but I don't think it's a
0:52:12good book
0:52:13I don't think I don't hate it with the
0:52:14fire of a thousand burning suns like a
0:52:16hater feed it's only 500 burning suns
0:52:19for me
0:52:20yeah it's fewer burning suns that I had
0:52:21to work with but I will say this if this
0:52:24was the hugo award that next year join
0:52:26us for our nebula award podcast I'm
0:52:28going to just give up on the hugo War
0:52:29III I completely well we just have the
0:52:32incomparable awards next year that's all
0:52:34yeah there you go and I will nominate
0:52:36Mary grants next book 3 is out now with
0:52:41I want to know how it is well I'd what I
0:52:43went on with anyone so many of the clone
0:52:46me just call the president in chapter
0:52:48one and solve the and then it'll be done
0:52:50yeah it's just yeah you know it's I
0:52:53don't know it works for some people and
0:52:54that's great i don't really understand
0:52:56why other than maybe just the setting is
0:52:58fun but it for me and I you know I read
0:53:01lots of different stuff i I'm not a
0:53:03snooty like oh well it must be a
0:53:05beautiful art for me to read it's just I
0:53:07just don't think is very good so anyway
0:53:09I read lots of novels that are just fun
0:53:12and obviously this is what this novel is
0:53:14supposed to be it must be a fun story
0:53:16right and i buy me my other problem with
0:53:19this book is and then i'll stop your
0:53:22other other other other other problem
0:53:25yes so if the whole thing right zombies
0:53:28it's a big deal right there they're an
0:53:30important part of this world are and how
0:53:33many zombies are in this book probably
0:53:34like to where are the zombies in this
0:53:37stupid book that was my plan today they
0:53:40have the zombie outbreak at they're at
0:53:42their headquarters in oakland right i
0:53:45would begin to get fire bond at the very
0:53:46beginning and then lots of Grandma and
0:53:49then and then there and then there's the
0:53:51zombie attack when he's like on the road
0:53:53or something right
0:53:54yeah but that the they don't really do
0:53:56anything with those obvious as far as
0:53:58shit she didn't want to taste all the
0:53:59zombie extra traction costs are very low
0:54:02zombie ratio if I were known for their
0:54:05in that it's like they're in a house
0:54:06there in a lab there in the house learn
0:54:09that house along getting groceries
0:54:11although coke drinking coke and getting
0:54:13groceries from the store I mean it'll
0:54:15fronting a lot about them businesses
0:54:17quantitative real-time is something is
0:54:19coca-cola is easy answer it maybe who
0:54:22knows and add I was that song you know
0:54:24free coke I like diet pepsi myself but
0:54:26hey whatever but i think that it will
0:54:30drink my co can think of my distance
0:54:32this discussion reminds me of a of in
0:54:34futurama literally two cops you ever
0:54:36seen like the entire series who
0:54:38apparently do all the policing of things
0:54:39like to zombies they were reading
0:54:41yeah they're really outliers their dead
0:54:44on their feet so if you do you like
0:54:47zombies you may not like this book if
0:54:49you likely if I like future blogger
0:54:51government conspiracies involving viral
0:54:55adji and the content of the messages of
0:54:58transmission of various viruses and also
0:55:02occasionally rapid cloning of people
0:55:06into adult bodies which is completely
0:55:08impossible love that anyway uh it's got
0:55:11that this is I endorse it
0:55:14this is felicia day going to play
0:55:15Georgie and the movie version is that
0:55:17the plan
0:55:17I hope for her sake but there is going
0:55:19to be apparently movie version feed so
0:55:21good laughs all right so anyway deadline
0:55:23I then i will be reading that sixth in
0:55:27my palate below
0:55:28no award hey I will not make clear that
0:55:31i did not like deadline alright and i do
0:55:34not break but could have been nothing
0:55:35but in the spirit of openness and I just
0:55:38how open-minded Scott my really are
0:55:41yes it wasn't it was better than feed it
0:55:45was better than feed if it's that is the
0:55:47feed were the only book you had ever in
0:55:50your life deadline not be good with me
0:55:53the best book you ever read everything
0:55:55was over it yes
0:55:56wow that's amazing oh yeah okay and the
0:56:01author can use them as a blurb on her
0:56:02book yeah I'm sure
0:56:05wow I want better Jenny would work
0:56:08better as a feed
0:56:09that's right can I put the I'm gonna get
0:56:11my rubber and getting my uh my rubber
0:56:13pole and i'm going to poke you guys
0:56:15because you've been touching the third
0:56:16rail and you can't let go and I'm gonna
0:56:19not electrocute myself while I knock you
0:56:20off the electrically let's talk about
0:56:22the other other other books that that's
0:56:25and nominated for a little earlier this
0:56:28year just really quickly so the nebula
0:56:30awards which are voted on by the
0:56:34science-fiction writers so same were
0:56:35awarded in may in fact yes
0:56:37so the nominees and and and among others
0:56:39one did it not willingly rightfully so
0:56:43yes it hey so among others one embassy
0:56:46town was the nominee will deserved uh
0:56:49firebird by jack mcdevitt I can't
0:56:52remember if i've read a lot of his time
0:56:54not sure if i've read that one I've
0:56:56never been ejected
0:56:57it's always fun he it's a it's very
0:57:00space opera is people spaceship so it's
0:57:02that's Alex Benedict I don't know maybe
0:57:04i have read that I know because they're
0:57:07all the same but the greatest I'll
0:57:09expenditures like Indiana Jones and
0:57:10space and he finds it people think that
0:57:13he's a like a relic like they did some
0:57:16people think he's a thief because he's
0:57:17stealing relics but he's actually
0:57:18finding relics and he stumbles on
0:57:20mysteries and he solves them and people
0:57:23are you know there's sudden violence and
0:57:25he barely escaped with his life and
0:57:27they're fun they're like space opera
0:57:29history books and he has these two
0:57:30series in the Alex Benedict is that is
0:57:32the the space archaeologists and then
0:57:35there's the hutch series where there's
0:57:37Priscilla Hutchins and she's a pilot and
0:57:39there otherwise pretty much exactly the
0:57:42same every time and the great i enjoy
0:57:44them they're they're fun so I I own some
0:57:47books by him but I have rhythm so maybe
0:57:48i will put them in my rotation
0:57:49yeah there for you I think you like them
0:57:51just because they're fun you know fun
0:57:53stuff i will sing God's war by Cameron
0:57:59early i have no idea where nightshade
0:58:03books it is it has a very striking
0:58:06however a deadly government-funded
0:58:09assassin
0:58:11I don't know anyway so that's what that
0:58:14was dominated mechanic a tale of the
0:58:17circus true salty by genevieve valentine
0:58:20i also have no idea no idea but that
0:58:23title is very good
0:58:24it's a circuit that maybe a pen name
0:58:26could be the steampunk flavored circus
0:58:30story other Zeppelin's I don't know but
0:58:34you one can hope there are aerialists
0:58:36they're all gala Zeppelin and they try
0:58:38to fit as many clowns as they can Intuit
0:58:41if it's a team that would be thousands
0:58:43of them if they send in the clowns
0:58:45Newstalk steampunk flavored and the
0:58:48kingdom of god which I have not read but
0:58:49is a Sowell by NK jemisin to the hundred
0:58:53thousand kingdoms write that book i love
0:58:55all three books i think the books are
0:58:56there they're not perfect but they are
0:58:59their unique there's a flavor to the
0:59:02writing there's a beauty to it
0:59:04his world creation there's romance
0:59:07there's just I just think they're
0:59:10terrific i'm actually reread them i
0:59:11don't have time to read much and I've
0:59:13reread two of the three and will be the
0:59:15third is there actually rich enough
0:59:17interesting enough very compelling
0:59:19characters at the center in the middle
0:59:21of all these gods and boards and things
0:59:23like that great world great world she
0:59:24created yeah it's a hundred thousand
0:59:28kingdoms is the only one I've read but I
0:59:29like that I like that a lot now is one
0:59:31of my favorites from last year i guess
0:59:33for two years ago that this is the
0:59:35second the second and third amazingly
0:59:37it's a trilogy in which the second and
0:59:39third i would say are equally good or
0:59:41better and there's some good payoff in
0:59:43the third formatting read all three and
0:59:44it's a fantasy series where there's like
0:59:46gods that have been have been captured
0:59:48by humans and they wear it so there's
0:59:51like an all-powerful God and then
0:59:52they're like gods have been captured and
0:59:54there's a whole conspiracy about like
0:59:56the gods and what they're trying to do
0:59:58and uh you know you
0:59:58and uh you know you
1:00:00girl is brought out of the village
1:00:01insurance actually has more to there's
1:00:03more to her life than she expected which
1:00:06is traditional and yet really
1:00:08well-executed i like i like that just
1:00:09meet me trying beautiful writing in very
1:00:12early novelist don't think she's written
1:00:14much and she bruises
1:00:15yeah 3 very not very solid books that
1:00:17will hold up over time I think and she
1:00:19started a new series the first book is
1:00:21available i can't believe it yeah she's
1:00:23prolific to I'll gosh-darn her that
1:00:25prolific pneus somebody in the chat room
1:00:27is saying any of the gods had been
1:00:29captured by other guys I thought it was
1:00:30like the gods and the people working
1:00:32together to trick the other gods into
1:00:33there's sort of a war between there's
1:00:35three essential recreation there's three
1:00:37central creation gods and one of the
1:00:39managers to kill one and imprison the
1:00:42other and all of his allies right and
1:00:44that's the theme of the first and the
1:00:45second there's sort of a reversal of
1:00:47fortunes and write primary God has to
1:00:49cope with that and then the third
1:00:51focuses on a low-key like characters
1:00:54like a later God important it's always
1:00:56BUTT STUFF very real very realistic in
1:00:58the sense of feeling like actual human
1:01:00interaction in the middle of all this
1:01:02giant stuff happening okay and now to
1:01:04the locus awards which are given by the
1:01:06british science fiction magazine locus
1:01:10and not by actual locusts that would be
1:01:15so cool to have a winner every year of
1:01:17the locust awards is berry blue which is
1:01:22not so good so I'm so the winner was
1:01:25embassy tab who interesting little
1:01:28home-field advantage there for the
1:01:30English with iphone wakes was nominated
1:01:3311 22 63 by stephen king was nominated
1:01:38and I enjoyed that book i enjoyed that
1:01:41book quite a bit
1:01:42mmm other people did not hope I wanted
1:01:47the locusts did not hear this now it was
1:01:51nominated that was very nice in that
1:01:53Stephen King's time travel book we did a
1:01:55whole episode about that where he goes
1:01:57guy goes back in time to try and stop
1:01:58the Kennedy assassination and it's all
1:02:01very nostalgic and nice and then there's
1:02:03this weird part where he goes back into
1:02:05the future and Maine is part of canada
1:02:07and that part isn't very good wish
1:02:11fulfillment very values
1:02:12rule 34 by charles stross was nominated
1:02:16here i read that i read to you know
1:02:18actually I i put a sort of fun even
1:02:20though was unwieldy and it was better
1:02:22than other as either I ready come he
1:02:24really kept me going for quite awhile
1:02:26with it so this is a this is a series of
1:02:29his that set in a future Scotland that
1:02:32sort of devolved from the UK and a
1:02:34semi-independent or mostly independent
1:02:36but it's part of this part of your
1:02:37European Union and so you know it's
1:02:40Stross doing some projection of like
1:02:42near future technology and like the
1:02:44police
1:02:45it's a it's a crime story and the police
1:02:46have like augmented reality where they
1:02:48are they're looking things up making the
1:02:50band you know
1:02:52yes King has a little headset and know
1:02:56that this the Scottish police woman has
1:02:58you know they're all equipped with their
1:03:00computers and stuff in there said
1:03:01there's a decryption is this one with
1:03:05the encryption pretended they find
1:03:07people dead and they had all been dati
1:03:09all dies it's the it's know the rule 34
1:03:11thing is as we know this from XKCD coin
1:03:14that it's that any candy is going to
1:03:16print dates that ok rule 34 for the
1:03:18first few days ago if you could imagine
1:03:20anything there's pornography of it on
1:03:22here and so the rule 34 squad the
1:03:24informant a rule 34 squad in this
1:03:26Scottish police force is sort of
1:03:28policing the internet for stuff that's
1:03:29you know beyond the pale and try to
1:03:31figure out three or if it's there
1:03:32checking out me and all kinds of crap
1:03:34and what essentially happens it's like
1:03:36right i mean you know i'm going to the
1:03:37spoiler here's like road computer
1:03:39software developed enough intelligence
1:03:40to sort of influenced a lot of outcomes
1:03:43and kill off bad people and all the
1:03:46people might shut it down and there's a
1:03:48really weird thing about credit default
1:03:49swaps happening in a breakaway republic
1:03:52right have to dump the debt onto evil
1:03:55binders like there's like a shell
1:03:56country where like the big country has
1:03:59taken part the poor part of it and and
1:04:02and made it be independent and put all
1:04:04its dead inside it which is a great idea
1:04:07is it was like why is this not happened
1:04:10yet that some countries done it and then
1:04:11they then they all vote for being merged
1:04:13back with a big country shut all the
1:04:15debt and the country solvent again while
1:04:17the bankers take the ticket the shorts
1:04:19is it was a revenge fantasy games
1:04:21bankers and it's really cool villainous
1:04:23character who
1:04:24whoo-hoo we follow who like is killing
1:04:28people and he he's he's really messed up
1:04:32like he's he's a very disturbing kind of
1:04:35character but fascinating in his own way
1:04:37and you some brain chemistry drugs to
1:04:39keep him on to keep himself under
1:04:40control then you lose control and yeah
1:04:43yeah you know is that the other book the
1:04:45Leviathan wakes there's also a character
1:04:47that one of the evil that a big evil guy
1:04:48there's a bit about his eyes being dead
1:04:51like the eyes of a shark and I think
1:04:52that's also if the line isn't in rule 34
1:04:55there's something about it as writers
1:04:56like to use sociopaths because you can
1:04:59have them do improbable horrible things
1:05:01and without my motivation right so I so
1:05:04I thought there were lots of interesting
1:05:05bits in rule 34 but like halting state
1:05:07which is the one with the encryption
1:05:09breach
1:05:10I feel like it's I feel strangely
1:05:12disconnected from the strong stuff I
1:05:14feel like I you know there's not really
1:05:15much of an emotional connection I I it's
1:05:18a parade of interesting near future
1:05:21technical like technological speculation
1:05:24and I like that about it but the
1:05:26characters are you know that there's
1:05:29some interesting characters it just it
1:05:31just didn't I don't know I I didn't feel
1:05:33it I I i appreciated it as a piece of
1:05:38speculation but I didn't like it as a
1:05:41story I guess is what I'd say and I feel
1:05:44that way about a lot of strong enough
1:05:46yeah that's sort of the best that is
1:05:48your theme that is he strong smell theme
1:05:50i think the same things to other
1:05:51stresses out great ideas but i don't get
1:05:53any emotional connection to it it's very
1:05:55mechanical even though it's very
1:05:56well-constructed yeah yeah they do like
1:05:59that i mean he has a lot to say about
1:06:00the economic collapse in the stuff about
1:06:02banks and lawyers and the lawyers for
1:06:04the banks and the credit default swaps
1:06:06and and the the shell country and all
1:06:10the positive there's an episode of
1:06:12Planet Money disguised as a sci-fi not
1:06:14not no zombies in it tho those uplands
1:06:17so it's just like deadline
1:06:18I don't know and the children of the sky
1:06:20diver nuvinci which is the sequel or
1:06:24third book in the series of the deepness
1:06:26in the sky and the fire upon the deep
1:06:28right and i haven't read it I relish to
1:06:31I'm radium i read the first two and i
1:06:35liked him but it was a long time ago and
1:06:37then he's done this third
1:06:38looking I I just haven't I just haven't
1:06:40gotten to it i like i like a lot of his
1:06:42stuff and I haven't gone to it and then
1:06:46yes Glenn was it was saying yes there is
1:06:49a fantasy novel category for for the
1:06:51locusts Lou they love their friends and
1:06:54dance with dragons one that category /
1:06:58among others which is outrageous
1:07:00it is it is an outrage yeah and over
1:07:03snuff by Terry pressure and left a book
1:07:07and over the wise man's fear by Patrick
1:07:08Rothfuss which was again like as John
1:07:11siracusa said like a good book exploded
1:07:14leaving little bits of good books scout
1:07:17around a lot i think it is in fact good
1:07:19book i enjoyed it too
1:07:21syracuse crazy it's not so your
1:07:23community what about stuff throughout
1:07:25snuff i was convinced that practice was
1:07:27going to kill off captain vines because
1:07:30area Cratchit so this is a button is
1:07:32there the Nights Watch is that it yeah
1:07:34yeah yeah I like I've read guards guards
1:07:37so I and terry pratchett is getting to
1:07:41the end of his writing career
1:07:43yes mhm and any book could be his last
1:07:46so I was really afraid that he was going
1:07:48to up the stakes and just finished vines
1:07:51off completely
1:07:52especially with a book called snuff sure
1:07:54did he not
1:07:58ok so i can i love i love that
1:08:03yeah but you know you don't write fifty
1:08:05or however many books he's up to now I
1:08:07think kill off your protagonists yeah we
1:08:09do you or M george RR martin would say
1:08:12you do but true i guess you can if one
1:08:16of your other protagonist his death also
1:08:18nominated is deathless by Catherine in
1:08:21valente I have not read that i read her
1:08:23Hugo nominated book palimpsest a couple
1:08:25years ago
1:08:26oh yeah enjoyed that I thought I
1:08:28disliked that a lot until I read haha
1:08:32another blur for her book but I've Reds
1:08:35I think I read something by plenty that
1:08:37i liked the girl who circumnavigated the
1:08:40early am so i don't know i don't and
1:08:42then among others like I said lost that
1:08:44category shade of the locusts I is
1:08:48greater go back into hibernation they
1:08:50should on the other hand in the four
1:08:51this novel territory which I glad they
1:08:53have night circus which we all really i
1:08:55think one and ready player one that did
1:08:58not which is justice and ready player
1:09:01one didn't get nominated for Hugo word
1:09:03so which is yeah well as we talked about
1:09:05that that's up with a fight who is going
1:09:07to be on the ready player one episode so
1:09:08many of us wanted to say negative things
1:09:10about it and i think i mentioned i was
1:09:12on a podcast with only client of the day
1:09:13it was a delightful and wonderful person
1:09:15and I like very much so i hope this
1:09:17adventure books I would like very nice
1:09:18people write bad books it's her very bad
1:09:21people right good books I wanted like I
1:09:24want his future novelty better so they
1:09:25may like that and I didn't say and I
1:09:27didn't hate ready player one but I
1:09:28wasn't on that podcast i-i-i as I as I
1:09:31said several times i quite enjoyed being
1:09:34shamelessly pandering to buy back so i
1:09:38was on that podcast as i said i liked
1:09:40ready player one very much and also
1:09:42decline wrote a great fan script first
1:09:44cool but her mother yeah that I like to
1:09:46nobody wanting what's funny about these
1:09:48podcasts is nobody remembers the person
1:09:50who liked it
1:09:51this is true this is true so there you
1:09:54go that's a lot of award-nominated
1:09:56novels I guess Scott Scott if you ranked
1:10:00the hugo novels how would you how would
1:10:03you rank them I among others
1:10:06uh yes what would be the first 1i green
1:10:08then i would place embassy town
1:10:12yes uh Dance with Dragons Leviathan
1:10:16wakes and I would just drop deadline off
1:10:19yes no award and then they're like you
1:10:21know I think we are in agreement I think
1:10:23we are an exact agreement there i had
1:10:27the honor of truth is not nice
1:10:30Scott McNulty listen to him is right i
1:10:33read a little bit of snow either you do
1:10:36that you're very well-read Jason you you
1:10:38and I have a similar reading taste I
1:10:41think I think that must be the case
1:10:43although I I guess what this means is
1:10:45that i should get into historical
1:10:46detective fiction and should you don't
1:10:48know what you're missing out apparently
1:10:49not if you like it
1:10:51it must be good it's fantastic yeah
1:10:53amazing and I also a read all of the
1:10:57nominated short stories for the hugo and
1:11:00there are some good short stories so if
1:11:01you like short stories
1:11:03check them out I read some of the fan
1:11:05writing they were really good that's
1:11:08good that Hugo's also always have the
1:11:11dramatic presentation categories in this
1:11:14year the warm form is Captain America
1:11:18the last harry potter movie
1:11:21Hugo source code r which is actually a
1:11:26pretty good movie and the first season
1:11:30of Game of Thrones which was submitted
1:11:31as a long-form work which is going to
1:11:34win the DVD set together commentary on
1:11:37exactly
1:11:39I i kinda like to go I I like source
1:11:41code
1:11:42yeah i would probably vote for Game of
1:11:45Thrones I like a nightmare on to so who
1:11:47I loved Hugo i love you go soak your
1:11:49number one yeah I like I'm i like I saw
1:11:51in 3d and didn't dislike the 3d martin
1:11:54scorsese knows what he's doing he is a
1:11:55pretty good director is me is that he's
1:11:58been around the block and and we got to
1:11:59say as somebody just said in the
1:12:01chatroom Hugo must-win Hugo it's true
1:12:04there anything about it must int the
1:12:07eventual in this credibly scene 3 3d
1:12:10movies one was alattar one was Hugo and
1:12:15one was peanuts movie by vendors our
1:12:19sermon movie and course those three
1:12:21movies actually needed to land all aided
1:12:23by 3d and you go I thought 3d version
1:12:26they really could use some space so and
1:12:28everything was a movie about moviemaking
1:12:30and end my turn astral filmmakers and so
1:12:34it's a it's a love letter to one of the
1:12:37original filmmakers jalandhar million by
1:12:39a master filmmaker and it shot in 3d
1:12:42which is this new and strange movie
1:12:45format by the master filmmaker it's very
1:12:48meta and interesting and and it's nice
1:12:50and the combined kids even liked it
1:12:52social baron-cohen isn't it my kids
1:12:54needed to learn about George Millie a
1:12:55they did ya get you know parents should
1:12:59really be there there when you've first
1:13:01teach your children George Malley a
1:13:03because you know they need guidance it
1:13:05firm hand it's important and he fill
1:13:08many early science fiction
1:13:10yes he did so yeah they're gonna mean
1:13:12see such a lovely fellow like I want to
1:13:14be George 98
1:13:15alright happen i'm convinced that Hugo
1:13:17must must win you must win and and then
1:13:21for best dramatic presentation
1:13:23there's the bunch of doctor who episodes
1:13:26the doctor's wife by Neil Gaiman the
1:13:28girl who waited a good man goes to war
1:13:30and then the remedial chaos theory
1:13:33episode of community we should excellent
1:13:35that should have heard that's very good
1:13:36and not an acceptance speech from one of
1:13:39the winners at last year's hugo awards
1:13:40which I gotta say what I gotta say I was
1:13:43in my room
1:13:44those guys were very nice what the hell
1:13:46that's like when the Oscars keep winning
1:13:48the Emmy for yeah that's exactly what
1:13:50it's like I i was in the room they were
1:13:53funny
1:13:54ah what the hell so if I if I voted in
1:13:57this category III would be a tough
1:13:59choice between remedial chaos theory and
1:14:02the girl who waited which I actually
1:14:03think was the best episode by Neil
1:14:05Gaiman will probably win because
1:14:07everybody loves neil gaiman i love Neil
1:14:09Gaiman to but you know what i think the
1:14:10girl who ate it was a better episode so
1:14:12you know the foot it was a flip between
1:14:13the two the doctor's wife was a total
1:14:15celebration of the whole who history
1:14:17universe and the girl away it was a
1:14:19great original spare drama that involved
1:14:22that use the actor's exceedingly well so
1:14:24different kinds of things with both
1:14:25excellent i did not like that community
1:14:27episode i thought i did very little to
1:14:30expand on the idea of alternate
1:14:32realities which I've seen a million
1:14:34times
1:14:35killjoy yeah yes I i liked it i I really
1:14:39enjoyed that episode but you know if I
1:14:41have fun at the boat i don't know
1:14:43probably enjoy your six seasons and a
1:14:45movie
1:14:45yeah 3 seasons and then an extra season
1:14:48where everybody's fired yay
1:14:50save money everybody will be going to
1:14:53classes and studying and every as free
1:14:55single damned episode all right
1:14:57that brings us to the end of our our
1:15:00perusal of things that were nominated
1:15:03for awards that we do every year
1:15:05Oh what we do until next year Scott I
1:15:09don't know Jason who what novel do you
1:15:12think will win not which one you think
1:15:13should win which one do you think will
1:15:15win as well as the other person who has
1:15:18read all of them
1:15:20you know I'm so say hello Mike goodness
1:15:25i'm gonna i'm gonna say George RR
1:15:26Martin's gonna win
1:15:27it's almost certainly don't use from the
1:15:29the number of voters were going to vote
1:15:31for him for the reason that they
1:15:33probably all the novel's all
1:15:35yeah that would be my guess is but my
1:15:37hope is that Joe Walton will sneak in
1:15:39there and of course my fear is that it
1:15:41will be deadline but yeah that will be
1:15:44unfortunate what so but yeah well
1:15:47obviously we can read content later and
1:15:49make it all work out
1:15:50yes well if if John Waltons book doesn't
1:15:53win then it will because the fairies had
1:15:55to set up the timeline so that it didn't
1:15:58win weezer we should say you know we
1:15:59just need we need to have the
1:16:01uncomfortable winners you know what are
1:16:02after all the awards are over we pick
1:16:03our own winners and I work are a couple
1:16:05words to them
1:16:06yeah but Martin's novels have apparently
1:16:09never won a hugo well it may be one of
1:16:12those Lifetime Achievement Award kind of
1:16:14things
1:16:14yeah and and the even though it's a
1:16:16fantasy novel and it's sort of a sci-fi
1:16:18category a Harry Potter novel one at one
1:16:21point and I think was one of those kind
1:16:23of tips at the Capitol Scott is
1:16:24disgusted by harry potter star shouldn't
1:16:27we wait till the last novel I mean we'll
1:16:29all be dead by then
1:16:30therefore the lord of the ring styles
1:16:32the absolute yeah well they want to give
1:16:34it to george RR martin while he still
1:16:35alive and writing novels and claims to
1:16:37be finishing them before everybody else
1:16:39and I have to feel like this is we've
1:16:43reached the kind of the height of the
1:16:45crazy popularity of the games i could be
1:16:47wrong and it could get even crazier
1:16:49lemoore popular but I think maybe you
1:16:52could it be I don't know III don't
1:16:54understand how could but Broadway it
1:16:56would seem it would seem that by the
1:16:57time the next book comes out the show is
1:16:59going to be probably winding down and
1:17:01that seemed to be I think the wall the
1:17:03wall the first season was very popular
1:17:04and the book the new book came out I
1:17:07don't know if they're gonna beat that or
1:17:09the height of the hype but we could be
1:17:12wrong that that show is is exceedingly
1:17:15popular so it seems like the existence
1:17:17of the show means he has to hurry up and
1:17:19finish the series because yeah just
1:17:21going to stop production on the show he
1:17:23will run out of things
1:17:25yes marriages my start writing their own
1:17:28still hurry
1:17:29well they might divert and then George
1:17:31then George RR Martin's last book will
1:17:33just be at
1:17:34Avila's a which would be going to go
1:17:36from online on this and just completely
1:17:37diverge
1:17:39ya know i like that i like him to have
1:17:41to have the last book just be as seeing
1:17:44on hpl be so great this is just a
1:17:48novelization have a crossover with
1:17:51beauty and the beast
1:17:51yeah brilliant alright this was great
1:17:54i'm glad that Scott I got some of our
1:17:56rage out and then we appreciated many
1:17:58other books that were good
1:18:00yes so that's good rich cast and I i
1:18:03highly recommend i'll put them in the
1:18:05show notes i'll put links to the other
1:18:07episodes where we discussed some of
1:18:08these novels in more detail for those
1:18:11who want to go back but this is great so
1:18:14I'd like to thank my guess
1:18:16Glenn fleischmann thank you for being
1:18:18here and being so well-read thank you
1:18:21I'm three-fifths well-read thank you
1:18:22very much but the right three-fifths it
1:18:25is
1:18:25yes well done Monty Ashley was great to
1:18:28have you on and talking about books this
1:18:30was cool i I you know we can we had you
1:18:32want for the game of thrones thing but
1:18:33it's nice to have you back in and for
1:18:35you to be so well-read as well it's
1:18:37great i read all of those books on a
1:18:39cruise ship two weeks ago
1:18:41wow that's the way to do it good job
1:18:44that was the that was the wilco no no
1:18:47was that a wizards of the coast theme
1:18:49that was the magic the gathering Cruz
1:18:51was not an official Wizard of the ghost
1:18:53wizards of the coast event but did have
1:18:55many wizards of the coast employee
1:18:56alright nice that's pretty cool
1:18:58speaking as crews and strangely jonathan
1:19:00coulton is on it just as a participant
1:19:02not to mention and Scott McNulty of
1:19:07course my partner in choosing good and
1:19:10bad novel sleeping but thank you so much
1:19:13for being back and and helping me
1:19:15through my trying times with deadlines I
1:19:19I blame you Jason I blame you
1:19:23it's my fault again like I said ivory
1:19:25I'm rethinking my priorities in life of
1:19:26why am i doing podcasts where I'm
1:19:28reading books like this and this and
1:19:30that brings to a conclusion the final
1:19:32episode of the uncomfortable goodbye i
1:19:34resign despite because it is over
1:19:37over our until next time when we'll talk
1:19:41about Jonathan Coulton but I I refuse to
1:19:43be on that podcast I refuse because we
1:19:46already recorded my not on it that'll be
1:19:48next week until then this is jason snow
1:19:51for the incomparable signing off
1:19:54we'll be back I'll forget about that
1:19:56book a week and once it wins an award
1:19:59which case how do we do I don't know I
1:20:04don't know another age cast yeah it may
1:20:06be a special and our obscenity from
1:20:08being comfortable
1:20:09it'll be fun to bleep out the packet
1:20:11alright goodnight everybody thank you
1:20:13for listening to be uncomfortable
1:20:17[Music]
1:20:28I'd like to think Monty for suggesting
1:20:30zombie marmaduke and the cherry we can
1:20:32name another episode the same way that
1:20:35would be awesome but it wasn't going to
1:20:36be Marmaduke two electric boogaloo I did
1:20:39that to prove i'm still paying attention