The Incomparable

96: Space Fedora

 

  the incomparable pod test number 96 jun [TS]

  welcome back to the cover podcast I'm [TS]

  your host Jason snail and i am here to [TS]

  with three lovely panelists to talk to [TS]

  you about hugo awards this is something [TS]

  that we've done i think all three years [TS]

  of the incomparable existence we're [TS]

  going to talk about books that were [TS]

  nominated for the hugo award this year [TS]

  the hugo award is an award bestowed by [TS]

  science fiction fans on the best novel [TS]

  and also various categories of short [TS]

  stories and TV shows and movies and [TS]

  things like that and I've always sort of [TS]

  treated it with some degree of reverence [TS]

  because I I sort of had a quest to read [TS]

  all the hugo winning novels and for the [TS]

  last few years I've read all the [TS]

  nominees and I voted in the hugo awards [TS]

  because although I sort of treated the [TS]

  hugo awards as the Oscars of science [TS]

  fiction in many ways it's the people's [TS]

  choice awards of science fiction and [TS]

  that anybody can pay to be a voter and [TS]

  then vote and that explains perhaps the [TS]

  quality of some of the selections but be [TS]

  that as it may be we are going to talk [TS]

  about it because it was always a way for [TS]

  me to to to get some books that i could [TS]

  read and and i feel you breathe the [TS]

  nominees that sounds like a perfectly [TS]

  good idea [TS]

  I question this idea this year but I i [TS]

  still read them all and i'm joined by [TS]

  people who've read various combinations [TS]

  of honored scifi books this year [TS]

  first up the man who reads everything my [TS]

  partner in crime when it comes to [TS]

  discussing a book a cold deadline that [TS]

  will be coming up it's scott McNulty hi [TS]

  Scott Jason I blame you for making me [TS]

  read another book by mirror I'm sorry I [TS]

  blame the voters I swear it was not me i [TS]

  didn't want to read it either but I did [TS]

  just like you because we are committed [TS]

  to the incredible i do it for the people [TS]

  yeah that's right it is for the people [TS]

  it's because we love [TS]

  exactly so I also joining me today you [TS]

  may have heard him [TS]

  murmuring to himself in the background [TS]

  there it's glenn fleischmann who also [TS]

  reads many things I glen i think you're [TS]

  hearing me [TS]

  breathe deeply that was the that's what [TS]

  you heard some oxygen before we get [TS]

  started it's always going to write it [TS]

  ok so I appreciate you do this every [TS]

  year i call this [TS]

  it's Hugo remo is how I think of it [TS]

  ok it's it's a i read Moby books this [TS]

  one it's huge going away reading moment [TS]

  it's exactly something like that [TS]

  also joining us are our other panelists [TS]

  is the great and powerful Monty Ashley [TS]

  hi Monty you go girl [TS]

  haha wow you know goodnight everybody [TS]

  and everything I could have everybody [TS]

  else loses but Monty weeks [TS]

  yeah I so hope so i guess i should start [TS]

  by saying that we'd actually we kind of [TS]

  called some of these books in progress [TS]

  that we did a an entire episode of the [TS]

  uncomfortable about George RR Martin's A [TS]

  Dance with Dragons pop culture [TS]

  phenomenon the ice and fire books in the [TS]

  HBO series and I and we did so you know [TS]

  we can't put ourselves on the back too [TS]

  much but it did get nominated for hugo [TS]

  award i find this funny since its you [TS]

  know this fifth book in a impenetrably [TS]

  long book series so I i pity the person [TS]

  who tries to read all the hugo nominees [TS]

  and hasn't read all the books that lead [TS]

  up to this much like I pity the people [TS]

  who tried to read cryo burn having not [TS]

  read the 18 previous Miles Vorkosigan [TS]

  books but you know [TS]

  them's the breaks I'd high five people [TS]

  love the series however is probably [TS]

  easier to get into then a dance with [TS]

  dragons without any having read the [TS]

  previous volumes because I think she [TS]

  does a good job of kind of making them a [TS]

  little bit self-contained yeah yeah [TS]

  and-and-and Dance with Dragons is just [TS]

  that you know it's the next thousand [TS]

  pages exactly i am surprised anyone [TS]

  thought a dance with dragons one of the [TS]

  best five novels of the United seems to [TS]

  be the consensus of of the podcast [TS]

  episode we did too is that is that there [TS]

  are good parts in it but there were also [TS]

  parts we didn't really like and you know [TS]

  I thought it was better than the [TS]

  previous book and I really like the [TS]

  Theon Greyjoy stuff that's in it but but [TS]

  you know it was a you know it was a [TS]

  middle chapter ii kind of setting things [TS]

  up and moving some stuff along and I'm [TS]

  trying to remember the other thing that [TS]

  bugged me about it was this sort of [TS]

  unnecessary cliffhangers where there's [TS]

  some cliffhangers where you're like yeah [TS]

  yeah you know you're going to resolve [TS]

  that in one chapter next time and it's [TS]

  not going to be that big a deal and so [TS]

  why are you were coming back we read [TS]

  this far we're going to read some more [TS]

  why do you need the cliffhanger but I [TS]

  don't know some so Monty do you kind of [TS]

  go along with that you read the dance [TS]

  with dragons right so no no no you just [TS]

  really want to do [TS]

  yeah i finished the second book am I the [TS]

  only one here who read that book then [TS]

  you have it [TS]

  Oh Scott rado remember I've read all are [TS]

  you ready will make everything you read [TS]

  every remember do you remember any of [TS]

  that those that I do i do I think the [TS]

  reek stuff like jason said was fantastic [TS]

  yeah do i do find it [TS]

  I don't find it puzzling that it's been [TS]

  nominated mostly because of the [TS]

  juggernaut that is the game of thrones [TS]

  right now sure especially since people [TS]

  like everybody is reading these books [TS]

  now I was at a potluck awhile back and [TS]

  one of my friends turned to me and said [TS]

  hey Scott have you read any of these [TS]

  game with Rome books and I said haha [TS]

  let me tell you something I've read them [TS]

  all before they were cool ah and what he [TS]

  was not impressed and then we can [TS]

  interesting by asking what happens in [TS]

  the menu couldn't remember how was I [TS]

  have no idea what's going to have them [TS]

  and then I had another person at the [TS]

  party I said oh yeah my mom is reading [TS]

  those books how it happened i wanted to [TS]

  okay now we can no longer read them [TS]

  that's right we can't we can't read this [TS]

  out [TS]

  we're out the coolness has has evacuated [TS]

  well you know I i enjoyed parts of it [TS]

  and other parts were fine and I I'm kind [TS]

  of committed to that series so I was [TS]

  happy to get another installment and but [TS]

  it is funny that the stuff that I think [TS]

  sticks with me the most is the is the [TS]

  the reek stuff and also you know maybe [TS]

  some of the stuff with uh you know I'm i [TS]

  don't know i mean so it's not sticking [TS]

  with me that well is it if I can't [TS]

  remember the guy the guy who's like the [TS]

  maybe another air and he's got his whole [TS]

  like he emerges from out of the boat on [TS]

  the river and all that that was kind of [TS]

  interested in the whole whole journey of [TS]

  of on that boat with the various strange [TS]

  people that are on it out the east but [TS]

  no I I don't know yeah I who do we [TS]

  really didn't yet another person playing [TS]

  the game of thrones and it's also funny [TS]

  it's you know whatever you guys talk [TS]

  about george RR martin like I gave up on [TS]

  him in the nineteen eighties I'm like [TS]

  hipster giver upper on Martin or and so [TS]

  I know he's incredibly popular right now [TS]

  but I just I found his style sort of [TS]

  unreadable back then and nothing I've [TS]

  heard since has made me want to devote [TS]

  the seven or eight years necessary after [TS]

  yeah yeah let's talk about wild cards [TS]

  right now I gave up on wild cards after [TS]

  like the eighth book so those came out [TS]

  faster because he enlisted other writers [TS]

  but I i did like rat wild cards though I [TS]

  liked it a lot [TS]

  yeah but it seemed like it had really [TS]

  good ideas and set up a lot of stuff and [TS]

  then kept going on and on and never [TS]

  really got any never know [TS]

  no well I mean I aight you got sort of [TS]

  got the sense i guess they're rebooting [TS]

  that but I you sort of got the sense of [TS]

  wild cards that you know there was [TS]

  nobody really in charge and he was just [TS]

  he and his friends kind of playing [TS]

  around with stuff and so there wasn't [TS]

  there wasn't like any ultimate storyline [TS]

  that was going to happen it was just [TS]

  let's just play around in this world [TS]

  yeah it's just always thought he was [TS]

  always thought he was sort of second or [TS]

  third rate in the scheme of like [TS]

  interesting people to read but he's [TS]

  pretentious he's a working writer he [TS]

  sort of pulpy right and I mean I always [TS]

  respect someone who produces even if [TS]

  they pander a little as long as they do [TS]

  the things they want people like what [TS]

  they do and it's not horrific i mean [TS]

  people certainly do like it and it's fun [TS]

  so I'm not going to criticize him for [TS]

  that I just never liked his writing and [TS]

  so whenever he gets the nomination with [TS]

  like this I'm like yes the popularity [TS]

  contest people are all reading it yes [TS]

  they nominated because they it's the one [TS]

  thing it's the only book you know he [TS]

  does it prevent anything else from being [TS]

  nominated because it's the only goal [TS]

  oriented exactly yeah very much yeah I [TS]

  know I although i'll just say it's not [TS]

  the worst nominee so there you go [TS]

  oh it is now it's easier this yes our [TS]

  Fault in Our from the moving on [TS]

  yes uh we should talk about we did it we [TS]

  also devote an entire show to embassy [TS]

  town by China Mieville i love to talk [TS]

  about that for another hour can we do [TS]

  that is so lots of people didn't like [TS]

  embassy town i liked it although I [TS]

  didn't love it and it was definitely a [TS]

  letdown after the city and the city but [TS]

  I i found [TS]

  it kind of fascinating and interesting [TS]

  and i like i like how ambitious China [TS]

  Mieville is he's a good writer even if [TS]

  there are some issues with it its [TS]

  execution so we do a little capsule [TS]

  summary because not everyone will read [TS]

  all these and you're covered that with [TS]

  with dances with drag and said you know [TS]

  the embassy town is it's kind of a [TS]

  sprawling novel but it's a woman who [TS]

  she's supposed to be a navigator to help [TS]

  move ships between stars takes awhile to [TS]

  move stuff there's some interesting [TS]

  stuff that's of course abandoned later [TS]

  about what the spaces like between the [TS]

  Emirates the stream of hyperspace kind [TS]

  of twisted space that they have a gate [TS]

  which is really kind of cool and they [TS]

  introduced it for a while and then let's [TS]

  go on and this interesting things about [TS]

  interstellar commerce that are actually [TS]

  sort of cool and there's robotics which [TS]

  is sort of cool and there's alien [TS]

  species that's very hard to talk to on [TS]

  this planet that Earthlings have sort of [TS]

  settled a little bit of with permission [TS]

  of these alien bug like species and the [TS]

  embassy town on this alien planet the [TS]

  humans are there and then they teach the [TS]

  aliens bad ideas and everything goes [TS]

  awry [TS]

  so without going going to far down and I [TS]

  know the reason I like this book is [TS]

  because i was i was a communication [TS]

  major and not the kind of like TV and [TS]

  radio kind the social science human [TS]

  communication kind and and marty is [TS]

  rolling his eyes as he knows about the [TS]

  UCSD comp apartment anyway I money where [TS]

  you become major to know I was a [TS]

  literate well good for you [TS]

  I was smarter I and so you can [TS]

  appreciate the literature aspect of a [TS]

  book like this but you know I liked that [TS]

  it was really about like [TS]

  miscommunicating or weird ways of [TS]

  communicating that aren't human and the [TS]

  aliens had this strange way of [TS]

  communicating where they leave [TS]

  everything was was referential and they [TS]

  would make new references and it was a [TS]

  little like a really super high falutin [TS]

  version of that Darmok episode of Star [TS]

  Trek The Next Generation where they all [TS]

  of us speaking in metaphors but less fun [TS]

  but I did like over that I thought it [TS]

  was kind of like a hot expanded universe [TS]

  version of the logic puzzle where [TS]

  there's a tribe that always lies and [TS]

  it's always tells the truth haha yeah [TS]

  you know yeah that's it because that [TS]

  because as soon as the as soon as the [TS]

  aliens learned that you could say [TS]

  something that was counterfactual and [TS]

  not a reference to something that was [TS]

  direct that's when all hell breaks loose [TS]

  and they [TS]

  rip off their wings yeah they rip off [TS]

  their hearing limbs here's the thing [TS]

  that I would say about embassy town [TS]

  because I'm think I'm a bigger trying to [TS]

  be a fan than anybody on the the regular [TS]

  incomparable rotating cast of characters [TS]

  i don't know i'm i'm close i like it [TS]

  okay what the ok well so embassy town [TS]

  you I think you liked his time without [TS]

  it yeah but i think i think about it is [TS]

  like the first third is sort of amazing [TS]

  the middle third sort of you're like wow [TS]

  where's he going with this and last [TS]

  thing you're like oh really i mean that [TS]

  was my reaction I didn't think the [TS]

  payoff was anywhere near as good as a [TS]

  very credible setup and progression and [TS]

  that's what made the novel disappoint [TS]

  for me and that's why I think that [TS]

  Morgan was livid like red with rage yeah [TS]

  he hated III one of the things I like [TS]

  about embassy town is I felt like again [TS]

  this is maybe a good thing but also a [TS]

  bad thing about being able as he tries [TS]

  he tries so hard that MC town reads to [TS]

  me like 10 different sci-fi novels that [TS]

  he didn't have time to write and so we [TS]

  just jammed parts of them all together [TS]

  into one because he's got other stuff to [TS]

  right so he's like this part is about [TS]

  this embassy this part is about the [TS]

  navigators in this part is about the the [TS]

  war but in the Civil War that's inside [TS]

  and this part is about what happens [TS]

  after the Civil War and you know I i [TS]

  told my kids my wife read this on my [TS]

  recommendation and I was apologetic to [TS]

  her when I said we were gonna be doing [TS]

  his podcast she said no no i didn't like [TS]

  it i just did it wasn't what I expected [TS]

  and and that's that's what struck me [TS]

  about it too is like you finish the [TS]

  chapter and you'll be like wow where [TS]

  they go from here [TS]

  and the answer is somewhere completely [TS]

  different with the next chapter because [TS]

  he's always on to the next idea did you [TS]

  learn all that stuff about the immer [TS]

  forget it [TS]

  yeah yeah we're never going back out [TS]

  there till the epilogue yeah here's [TS]

  here's the thing with with me evil is so [TS]

  prolific though it's like if we don't [TS]

  like this one next year there'll always [TS]

  be another this year we've got the moby [TS]

  dick told with railroads and moles giant [TS]

  models started started on that better [TS]

  than I would have expected he's you know [TS]

  there's the rule which is if you have to [TS]

  make up words just even start the novel [TS]

  often you have to learn new words and [TS]

  maybe you shouldn't start its kind of [TS]

  called without even central like I like [TS]

  to FM and I loved Anna so NM is about [TS]

  that it justifies it complete yeah [TS]

  absolutely anything rewired my brain I [TS]

  feel like me about that some of that [TS]

  seriously and evil embassy tended too [TS]

  much sitting in the city was a great [TS]

  it was a very bare detective novel [TS]

  option of rewiring the brain so but i [TS]

  think the embassy town up it deserves to [TS]

  be in the hugo finalists that wouldn't [TS]

  you agree even with its failings I think [TS]

  it's one of the best most interesting [TS]

  interesting how I was very happy for it [TS]

  to be nominated [TS]

  yeah there's a specific line in embassy [TS]

  town that I want to complain about here [TS]

  on the Internet [TS]

  yes latah at one point near the end the [TS]

  main character says I told him [TS]

  revelation was spoiled for him but I can [TS]

  retain it for you here which is China's [TS]

  excuse for a first-person character not [TS]

  telling us what the plan is going to be [TS]

  20 pages for now and that is cheating [TS]

  yeah but there's something where you [TS]

  know your you get angry when certain [TS]

  books that will discuss later are [TS]

  nominated for words like this you think [TS]

  they don't deserve to be in the same [TS]

  company an embassy town it's like I [TS]

  don't know if i would recommend people [TS]

  read it or not I think I would because [TS]

  either they get mad after i read it i [TS]

  think it exposes them to nuke ways of [TS]

  thinking and it it moves you to an [TS]

  emotion of some kind and you can realize [TS]

  as your as you're reading it you read [TS]

  you you recognize that he is a good [TS]

  writer you may not think that he [TS]

  successfully does what he's trying to do [TS]

  with the book but I give him a lot of [TS]

  credit for trying to do something [TS]

  different ya i thought it was really [TS]

  good world-building I didn't think it [TS]

  was successful storytelling [TS]

  yeah exactly yeah i mean that an [TS]

  individual parts of it are beautifully [TS]

  written because he's a very good writer [TS]

  but the story is sort of like it again [TS]

  that's my feeling about like it keeps [TS]

  changing what it's about every chapter [TS]

  and it that isn't necessarily good [TS]

  storytelling it's like a slideshow right [TS]

  and it's like different images different [TS]

  little bits but not really the story and [TS]

  and there's a there's a whole thing [TS]

  about her like husband or blacks husband [TS]

  who disappears and comes back later [TS]

  that felt actually kind of cheap and and [TS]

  why a plot device that he needed was a [TS]

  very Stephenson real serious thing that [TS]

  happens in a quicksilver in [TS]

  cryptonomicon as a character like that [TS]

  has mentioned early on he doesn't seem [TS]

  very important at the end comes back [TS]

  into some crazy military-style thing [TS]

  that is absolutely out of nowhere and [TS]

  sort of exactly as it happens embassy [TS]

  town always irritated me in economic [TS]

  onto all right should we move on to [TS]

  let's say we touched upon we touched [TS]

  upon among others [TS]

  in a couple previous podcasts and I want [TS]

  to bring it up again only because it is [TS]

  a great and I can't believe we didn't [TS]

  just devote an entire podcast into it [TS]

  and it's going to get my vote for the [TS]

  best novel of the year because it's the [TS]

  best novel of the year i think it is by [TS]

  Joe Walton it's a story about a girl who [TS]

  is Welsh and she is in and in a school a [TS]

  private school she can take it away from [TS]

  her mother's family to her father's [TS]

  family her mother's family as well as [TS]

  her father's family is English he had [TS]

  never really known her father but she's [TS]

  taken away and put the school in England [TS]

  and shes lonely and she's starting to [TS]

  meet friends and she's reading tearing [TS]

  through the science fiction in the [TS]

  library so it's about science fiction [TS]

  but what's funny about it is it like [TS]

  like the george RR martin book is [TS]

  actually a fantasy novel because her [TS]

  mother and her family are like witches [TS]

  and there's this thing with spells and [TS]

  fairies and she has to go back to Wales [TS]

  and fight the fairies and you're [TS]

  wondering is she crazy or issue really [TS]

  reading sci-fi while living in a fantasy [TS]

  world which i think is really what it [TS]

  what it is but it's so it's so great as [TS]

  a coming-of-age story and a love letter [TS]

  to kids who are socially maladjusted and [TS]

  are finding finding a escape through [TS]

  science fiction and also meeting friends [TS]

  because there's this book club that kind [TS]

  of shows up where they were they discuss [TS]

  science fiction so it's about us in ways [TS]

  to i just i love this book it says she's [TS]

  such a great writer [TS]

  yeah it it's about how science fiction [TS]

  gives her a family of friends which is [TS]

  not only the way a lot of older [TS]

  science-fiction fans like me feel [TS]

  basically a younger science-fiction fan [TS]

  wants to feel so it really spoke to me [TS]

  although I wonder how good a book it is [TS]

  if you don't recognize every single [TS]

  title as she goes through I i missed [TS]

  half of them honestly I haven't read a [TS]

  lot of the Canon of sci-fi but I do [TS]

  enough to be like oh she's going to the [TS]

  can and when she would hit a book that I [TS]

  i have read or I know about I i would i [TS]

  would perk up a little but for me it was [TS]

  like I knew enough about it to get [TS]

  through it i didn't need to relive [TS]

  of those books that i read so it worked [TS]

  for me even though i haven't read a lot [TS]

  of that stuff we're just a few years [TS]

  behind when the book was written in [TS]

  terms of probably reading this kind of [TS]

  stuff i started reading science fiction [TS]

  pretty seriously probably right around [TS]

  there a little later and I was often [TS]

  because i buy used books or [TS]

  what-have-you I was always maybe a few [TS]

  years behind so what she was reading in [TS]

  the book takes place in 1979 1909-10 80 [TS]

  right goes over the new year and what I [TS]

  think i read not exactly the sequence [TS]

  but a lot of that because it was all [TS]

  contemporary even if it was you know [TS]

  from four years before you work through [TS]

  stuff and she's reading stuff that goes [TS]

  back even a decade sometimes or or the [TS]

  revelations great what she's like oh [TS]

  james t chip tree one of my favorite [TS]

  authors will something to a podcast [TS]

  about you and she's so if he's a she and [TS]

  that great revelation and she sort of [TS]

  even comments and how people reacted to [TS]

  that as I was happening contemporarily [TS]

  yeah I I i have fun memories of going to [TS]

  the library and there's a library in the [TS]

  school librarian in this who ended up [TS]

  going to the town libraries in the [TS]

  library's figure in and I went to the [TS]

  library and I i literally I went through [TS]

  every sci-fi book in the children's [TS]

  section and I by the time i got through [TS]

  with that the librarian said you know [TS]

  there's a whole adult sci-fi section [TS]

  seriously what should I want to go to [TS]

  there right so it was so that I had to [TS]

  add that fun this to that you know she's [TS]

  she's having a hard hard time making her [TS]

  way in the world and she's reading these [TS]

  books and meeting these people and [TS]

  that's all great and then meanwhile [TS]

  she's grappling with her mother [TS]

  casting spells on her and the fact that [TS]

  she has to go back to Wales in order to [TS]

  fight the ferry ghost people which is [TS]

  like you know that happened to me too so [TS]

  I did not really identify with that part [TS]

  i mostly assumed she was crazy now no I [TS]

  also joe Walton I saw an interview with [TS]

  John Walton and she said I am outraged [TS]

  that people think you're crazy [TS]

  she's not crazy that that is actually [TS]

  happening yeah which kind of the book a [TS]

  little less interesting to me but I [TS]

  don't think it is fantastically written [TS]

  as you read you wonder for a while and [TS]

  then I finally i'm just kinda came to [TS]

  accept it's like no this is real in [TS]

  terms of the book it's totally real [TS]

  it's the matter of fact this is why [TS]

  people think that is that it's addressed [TS]

  it's it's just part of her life and she [TS]

  knows some people can't see it and she [TS]

  can but in their shades it for different [TS]

  people but it's just that is the more [TS]

  wolf of that universe and so it's not [TS]

  told the zoo ferry will let you know she [TS]

  makes fun of herself [TS]

  the main character makes fun of herself [TS]

  in how she even and how ridiculous it is [TS]

  and she's like maybe talkin new fairies [TS]

  maybe he actually knew them because gosh [TS]

  some of the stuff they do is so close [TS]

  but it's like he made up the words they [TS]

  say because they don't really talk like [TS]

  that he wanted to give them you know [TS]

  better presentation i also think that [TS]

  it's gotta be you know in part this book [TS]

  is about that the weird interface [TS]

  between fantasy and science fiction and [TS]

  I mean it's purposeful she's writing a [TS]

  fantasy novel in which the character [TS]

  read science fiction i think that's [TS]

  interesting too i think a lot of her [TS]

  readers who are wondering if it if she's [TS]

  crazy are people who are maybe a little [TS]

  more predisposed to sci-fi and a little [TS]

  less than fantasy and that's not even [TS]

  money right and if it's true she didn't [TS]

  just read science fiction to read this [TS]

  allows me amber but that's strange [TS]

  that's true she read part of highlands [TS]

  glory road before pitching it decided to [TS]

  send all right fair enough but she's [TS]

  reading all the general stuff and she [TS]

  lives in a world where their fantasy [TS]

  elements that are absolutely real true [TS]

  and I don't think I think that certainly [TS]

  it helps if you are a sci-fi fantasy fan [TS]

  reading this book but i think if you are [TS]

  someone who grew up reading anything [TS]

  no it is such a great book and you will [TS]

  really identify with the main character [TS]

  other than the whole fairy thing that it [TS]

  is just a very satisfying book and I've [TS]

  said it before but I think John Walton [TS]

  is just a fantastic writer and and so I [TS]

  think that I on in my blog post that I [TS]

  wrote about the the hugo nominees I said [TS]

  that among other among others is this [TS]

  year's dervish house in that I think it [TS]

  should win but it is not going to it's [TS]

  rather lovely as that is the thing about [TS]

  it is you read someone who writes like [TS]

  this and you and like and I think this [TS]

  toothbrush us as well you know it's not [TS]

  work to read the book she sucks you into [TS]

  the world she's painting and you're in [TS]

  that girl's life and when things happen [TS]

  that are unusual it's just part of [TS]

  what's happening [TS]

  it's just beautiful to read it's just [TS]

  she also have been captures the ordinary [TS]

  human interactions the middle of all the [TS]

  nonsense that's going on and she does [TS]

  that thing i love that any science [TS]

  fiction or fantasy author does which is [TS]

  set up expectations and then and then [TS]

  not [TS]

  them down through fantastical elements [TS]

  that are well integrated so you think of [TS]

  her father sort of a sad sack is under [TS]

  sisters thumb you know they have the [TS]

  money but as it goes on and rice should [TS]

  be spoiler horn and I want to give [TS]

  anything away i don't know the small [TS]

  spoiler fact that the sisters turn out [TS]

  to have maybe some witchy powers without [TS]

  fully understanding themselves even that [TS]

  they do and that the father is actually [TS]

  being you know sort of essentially [TS]

  mystically compelled to be under their [TS]

  thumb to do their bidding so they don't [TS]

  have to deal as much with the world i [TS]

  mean that's a little beautiful thing [TS]

  where she then relationship with her [TS]

  father shifts a little from sort of [TS]

  discussed two more pity [TS]

  mmm can i bring up one other thing for [TS]

  the book i'm going to dominate [TS]

  discussion of this book because I will [TS]

  be all of it to go ahead Glenn go ahead [TS]

  well so that would be the best thing in [TS]

  it is it is she is she introduced the [TS]

  concept of fantasy retcon what you think [TS]

  the whole business about magic doesn't [TS]

  work generally magic doesn't work about [TS]

  making something happen going forward [TS]

  it works by changing all the past events [TS]

  necessary including making people be [TS]

  born who didn't were important before in [TS]

  order to create a scenario alright she [TS]

  feels that you actually feels that the [TS]

  what's happened is the culmination of [TS]

  you know everything that's happened in [TS]

  your life is the result of spells to [TS]

  culminate in getting her where she needs [TS]

  to go right which is an interesting way [TS]

  of looking at whether that's completely [TS]

  crazy or not it's fascinating [TS]

  she doesn't know when the ferry sort of [TS]

  imply that they sort of don't have a you [TS]

  know necessarily they're like okay we [TS]

  need you to be here so we cause she's [TS]

  like did they change the school vacation [TS]

  schedule for all schools and wales and [TS]

  england in order that i could not hear [TS]

  time to meet them and then she gets [TS]

  disturbed about the book club she's like [TS]

  I don't the guy remember the book clubs [TS]

  the guy works in the library is sort of [TS]

  rude to her and cold the first week and [TS]

  then two weeks later he's lovely and [TS]

  mentions a book club they have and she's [TS]

  thinking did this 60 year old woman is [TS]

  in the book club which she never been [TS]

  born if I didn't need the book club to [TS]

  exist very very good concept i think [TS]

  it's got a great chance of winning [TS]

  because the hugo voters are people who [TS]

  go to or have memberships for worldcon [TS]

  and in many ways this book is a love [TS]

  letter to science fiction fandom so I [TS]

  think it's gonna do really well among [TS]

  the populace at @anjghie Walton is a [TS]

  very respected I mean people do love her [TS]

  and in in the in the sci-fi and [TS]

  convention going community so she's not [TS]

  like some kind of outsider person either [TS]

  so she bought she's also out there cuz [TS]

  she blogs regularly on tor.com she [TS]

  actually has done a chapter-by-chapter [TS]

  analysis of the Patrick Rothfuss books [TS]

  that we talked about on this podcast the [TS]

  name of the wind and the wise man's fear [TS]

  where she's blown my mind by doing some [TS]

  various kind of connecting the dots of [TS]

  the things in the office books so I you [TS]

  know she's out there and she's active in [TS]

  writing about this stuff too so I think [TS]

  she's got it [TS]

  I think she's got a fighting chance I [TS]

  think there may be black backlash [TS]

  against george RR martin so nobody had [TS]

  one last year welcome thing at after [TS]

  reading among others which was my first [TS]

  row Walton book I then read three more [TS]

  in short succession farthing Halfpenny [TS]

  and half a crown which are and that she [TS]

  calls it her small change trilogy [TS]

  yes which it's a it's an alt history [TS]

  that is disguised the first book at [TS]

  least disguise as an Agatha Christie [TS]

  novel and it and ends up much more like [TS]

  yes and it's fantastic yeah I haven't [TS]

  read the third one of those yet but I [TS]

  read the first two and they are they are [TS]

  spectacular [TS]

  I will i said this on the previous [TS]

  podcast i will read anything but you're [TS]

  walking now because she's not as well I [TS]

  I'm gonna go retcon having read [TS]

  everything she's written actually first [TS]

  I have to read everything she's read [TS]

  because I'm treating among others as my [TS]

  new book list there's a there's a [TS]

  website that someone has listed every [TS]

  book with a cover that she mentions in [TS]

  another's nice which pretty sure we move [TS]

  on to to Leviathan wakes let's talk [TS]

  about life takes a chance on quarry [TS]

  which is a fake name because it's [TS]

  actually George RR Martin's assistant [TS]

  assistant if and a co-author is good and [TS]

  great friend [TS]

  yes who's like an agent or works at a [TS]

  publishing company or something anyway [TS]

  so it's a it's a it's a this is a this [TS]

  is a spy [TS]

  sopra would you say Scott I would say [TS]

  that well this is a so it's interesting [TS]

  it is kind of a space after i would say [TS]

  it's a small-scale space opera because [TS]

  it's been in the solar system by Castro [TS]

  and move exactly so it's not really when [TS]

  you think space opera traditional space [TS]

  opera it's kind of a speedo [TS]

  galaxy-spanning and there are huge [TS]

  numbers of spaceships and that's not [TS]

  really what this book is it's a they are [TS]

  kind of they are within the solar system [TS]

  and they go to a different asteroids and [TS]

  planets and things but there isn't a [TS]

  large amount of kind of a vessel combat [TS]

  or anything like that right there is a [TS]

  little bit but but not a lot [TS]

  yeah so it's kind of it's certainly the [TS]

  I think the purest science fiction novel [TS]

  that has among the nominees [TS]

  uh yeah i get i guess so i mean i guess [TS]

  i guess you'd have to say it is uh it's [TS]

  it's interesting it's golden tooth [TS]

  timeframes the captain he doesn't start [TS]

  out as the captain but he ends up as the [TS]

  captain of this crew people on these [TS]

  various spaceships and then there's this [TS]

  guy Miller who's a cop on the edge a cop [TS]

  on the beat and need an asteroid and [TS]

  horny Miller and he's very top on the ad [TS]

  space cup on the edge of space wanted [TS]

  space and and he's he's fun and that he [TS]

  is a very new orange kind of guy where [TS]

  he's a you know he's a he's divorced and [TS]

  he's got a drinking problem and he has a [TS]

  partner who's come problematic as his [TS]

  partner is like a an earther he's not a [TS]

  is outside you know spacer kind of guy [TS]

  and there's a conspiracy and I and [TS]

  they're gonna take this badge way and [TS]

  actually you're part of it reminded me [TS]

  of the trick with george RR martin does [TS]

  in the first game of thrones and then a [TS]

  game of thrones where there's a prologue [TS]

  that says something really strange is [TS]

  happening and then he leaves he just [TS]

  lays it there for like 300 pages and you [TS]

  think you're reading one novel and um [TS]

  and you realize i'm only halfway through [TS]

  when this is wrapping up what is going [TS]

  to happen and then you realize oh right [TS]

  the prologue [TS]

  surely that was that what i thought it [TS]

  was are there really your thing you [TS]

  notice base vomit zombie people running [TS]

  around answers yes there are vomit [TS]

  zombies and yes vomit zombies is how he [TS]

  refers to them in the book this book I [TS]

  think there's a lot of fun to read and [TS]

  it was it was the first time I should [TS]

  admit that I i attempted to read this my [TS]

  first attempt fails because i read the [TS]

  the beginning the prologue and for [TS]

  whatever reason it did not interest me [TS]

  at all so i put it aside but I am glad [TS]

  that it was nominated for a human [TS]

  because that forced me to actually read [TS]

  the whole thing and it was once you get [TS]

  past at least once I got past the first [TS]

  like 30 pages i was hooked [TS]

  I must have stopped 29 the first time [TS]

  round I thought you'd like that [TS]

  the norrish to space detective guy part1 [TS]

  he was not in the the program yeah why [TS]

  why is there not a a guy wearing a space [TS]

  for Dora that's what I say I'm he does [TS]

  like this is what I no time [TS]

  oh yeah that's right i guess a space for [TS]

  Dora finally unlocked yes governor [TS]

  I i may be wrong about this but I felt [TS]

  like the parts that weren't the space [TS]

  cop may have started life as firefly [TS]

  fanfic funds read that it is actually [TS]

  had someone grabbed his kind of gruff [TS]

  and Andy yeah you gotta growth captain [TS]

  who's got a code of honor plays by his [TS]

  own rules [TS]

  he's flanked by a huge weapon obsessed [TS]

  guy and his second-in-command a super [TS]

  confident lady of big ethnicity [TS]

  yeah it was a great engineer is a [TS]

  fantastic engineering has anything was [TS]

  spittin whatever and they do a lot of [TS]

  quickie things the middle of fights and [TS]

  you know he looked over and shrug i [TS]

  thought you knew [TS]

  parts of it felt very weenie in a good [TS]

  way but I especially liked media are [TS]

  holding the sort of the camera is sort [TS]

  of grizzled he was awfully grizzled even [TS]

  though i think he was supposed to be [TS]

  quite young at the same time still [TS]

  unclear and lost trying to help these [TS]

  supposed to be Grizzles before his tag [TS]

  which must be handsome and [TS]

  and vigorous and virile he's personally [TS]

  and character because he is for a guy [TS]

  who's not in charge he is super [TS]

  competent it with the one exception [TS]

  which is that he can't shut up and he [TS]

  says stupid stuff over public airwaves [TS]

  friday and add and constants that are [TS]

  true but in politic but other than that [TS]

  he's like super comp confident which I [TS]

  thought was kind of funny because he's [TS]

  not like he was ever the captain before [TS]

  he was not the captain before but then [TS]

  the captain and many other people died [TS]

  and he's the cabinet but he had some [TS]

  great lines like it's like you know just [TS]

  for once I'd like to get off a ship or [TS]

  planet and not have it blown up behind [TS]

  when he does get a complex about that to [TS]

  ride a horse like triggers keep stopping [TS]

  well they over and over again and then [TS]

  but ended the moments where the stories [TS]

  intersect that are actually very funny [TS]

  because the two main characters you're [TS]

  like oh these are my buddies and [TS]

  following through here they hate each [TS]

  other [TS]

  I said okay we're making sure they're [TS]

  forced to work together of course they [TS]

  are because it's an odd couple and their [TS]

  force towards justice in space [TS]

  I thought it was fun it wasn't deep i [TS]

  thought it lasted maybe a hundred fifty [TS]

  pages to libraries among them like yes I [TS]

  just thought that felt like the end and [TS]

  then it just kind of kept going kept [TS]

  looking at the page count i was like [TS]

  Shirley we're wrapping up here like oh [TS]

  my god on that page like 400 off 500 [TS]

  something i don't think so the Miller [TS]

  gets obsessed with solving this murder [TS]

  or looking for the script about a girl [TS]

  it's about a girl right get obsessed and [TS]

  he starts having conversations with her [TS]

  and kind of hallucinates about her and I [TS]

  thought that was i I would and another [TS]

  novel that's nominated has a similar [TS]

  device and I thought it was much better [TS]

  executed in the violin wakes then in [TS]

  another of the nominees [TS]

  yeah I i guess so i thought that was [TS]

  weird but it was sort of like you know [TS]

  we accept that he's kind of gone crazy [TS]

  and is obsessed with it and that worked [TS]

  for me the thing that bugged me i think [TS]

  was the was in the other in the parallel [TS]

  story there's this whole subplot about [TS]

  you know [TS]

  oh I'm the captain but I didn't know the [TS]

  girl [TS]

  who is the second in command but I can't [TS]

  do anything because I'm the captain but [TS]

  I love her and then she's like but I've [TS]

  always loved you and it's like well then [TS]

  let's do it and they go off and then [TS]

  it's all weird and awkward and I I [TS]

  thought that was just so bizarre that it [TS]

  was like such a strange like is I don't [TS]

  know it seemed a bit much to me that was [TS]

  that was just like really is that what [TS]

  do we want to have what we got vomit [TS]

  zombies here do we really need the [TS]

  unrequited love of the captain and I [TS]

  will also say there is like let's talk [TS]

  about let's talk about science now the [TS]

  protomolecule like a good device but [TS]

  they there's something I don't know [TS]

  there's something both like interesting [TS]

  and sloppy it's like this thing this [TS]

  protomolecule whatever it is can like [TS]

  take over any life-form encounters and [TS]

  it's it's anaerobic somehow they have to [TS]

  vomit out to spread it and constantly [TS]

  constantly around places in which the [TS]

  things should be everywhere and it [TS]

  should be airborne just as particles not [TS]

  like paralyzed or whatever and they [TS]

  don't get infected like they're [TS]

  constantly constantly and things being [TS]

  blown up shot expanded seeping and [TS]

  you're like no no these guys they're [TS]

  wearing the spacesuit and there [TS]

  nope no could possibly like a little bit [TS]

  of that you know that it was when you [TS]

  have the creeping crud you have to a [TS]

  little better explanation about why the [TS]

  crud doesn't affect people that's [TS]

  troubling this is also not the only book [TS]

  that has zombies in it but it's trippy I [TS]

  i liked the premise more there's a [TS]

  there's an interstellar biological [TS]

  weapon [TS]

  yeah that we have that we sort of dodged [TS]

  a bullet on and now people have [TS]

  uncovered it and and also draw a [TS]

  parallel to the george RR martin stuff [TS]

  it's sort of like everybody's fighting [TS]

  with each other over the control of this [TS]

  thing when in fact this thing is going [TS]

  to kill us all right but its fingers a [TS]

  little alien z yeah the bio weapon [TS]

  yeah I wanted to say it was like we'd [TS]

  meet aliens but then I realized that [TS]

  happened in Alien Resurrection right I i [TS]

  love to see i love the scenes where they [TS]

  they basically have this plan where [TS]

  they're going to kill everybody on the [TS]

  one asteroid in order to test out this [TS]

  thing and they throw them in like the [TS]

  radiation and that leads to a funny [TS]

  thing where our guys get dosed with [TS]

  radiation a fatal level if they don't [TS]

  get help and they're not sure if the [TS]

  ship is still there and they have to get [TS]

  through all of the series of things and [TS]

  I thought that would make a good i mean [TS]

  that's like the thing [TS]

  put in the movie right it's like a nice [TS]

  set piece that they go through where [TS]

  they think they're gonna die and trying [TS]

  to get out of this I asteroid that [TS]

  essentially everybody in it is going to [TS]

  die because they've all been infected i [TS]

  thought that was kind of cool that the [TS]

  the villains of the Peace the corporate [TS]

  corporate villains of course it's a [TS]

  corporation that's very alien to [TS]

  actually r-ark sabotaging this in order [TS]

  to test out this terrible thing that's [TS]

  gonna kill all of humanity [TS]

  I like they're desperate escape there I [TS]

  felt the radiation sickness kind of got [TS]

  forgotten towards the end of the book [TS]

  certainly by me [TS]

  yeah they got cured ya know they didn't [TS]

  cure the the only signal hills and since [TS]

  taking pills and he's probably gonna be [TS]

  all the rest of his life and Miller [TS]

  winds up you know you know what happened [TS]

  when I remember what happened to Miller [TS]

  you don't let that happen to you yeah [TS]

  Here I think I'm pretty safe that what [TS]

  happened to me but i wanted to i want to [TS]

  draw a parallel to a pair of books i was [TS]

  thinking about the alien threat thing [TS]

  like the idea that alien civilizations [TS]

  I mean there is that notion in some [TS]

  sci-fi that you see it actually quite a [TS]

  bit of the space operate stuff is that [TS]

  if you don't if humans don't expand to [TS]

  fill the universe some other more [TS]

  successful species will because even [TS]

  those spaces you know it's not virtually [TS]

  infinite there's only a finite amount of [TS]

  space in the galaxy and all habitable [TS]

  planets for a particular in a life-form [TS]

  type will be filled and there's Greg [TS]

  bear has a nice top don't know there's [TS]

  some authors you sort of write ups [TS]

  patients with Rory or you read Darwin [TS]

  radio and either way I'm right exactly [TS]

  but for just the forge of God is 97 book [TS]

  and then the sequel anvil stars are [TS]

  beautifully paired books i highly [TS]

  recommend the forge of God is earth gets [TS]

  attacked by some it's a bizarre thing [TS]

  it's like first contact then things [TS]

  started to fall apart and it turns out [TS]

  it's basically aliens using a technique [TS]

  I think they'd vaporize like one of the [TS]

  moons of jupiter in order to have the [TS]

  mass necessary to carry out the attack [TS]

  but its automated self-replicating [TS]

  machines that go through and destroy any [TS]

  other trace of life in the universe so [TS]

  that they don't wind up becoming a [TS]

  threat and trying to you know look for [TS]

  latent well later there's a series of [TS]

  books by jack mcdevitt that are like [TS]

  that too where there's basically these [TS]

  Omega clouds that come through and they [TS]

  figure out that it they're essentially [TS]

  you know they're they're intelligent [TS]

  things created not creatures but [TS]

  machines that are searching for like [TS]

  straight lines and parham parallel lines [TS]

  and things that are signs of of a heat [TS]

  of life and if they find and destroy [TS]

  planets so yeah same i think there's [TS]

  something I think there's a reasonable [TS]

  rational you know thing to say like if [TS]

  you can travel between the stars and if [TS]

  life just wants to expand then it's not [TS]

  in its not implausible this game two [TS]

  things the things that other [TS]

  civilizations with tent would [TS]

  specifically attempt to destroy all [TS]

  their life because ostensibly other life [TS]

  would spread into try to destroy them so [TS]

  but those books are great and I thought [TS]

  that's a little bit the protomolecule [TS]

  was like the you know more of a horror [TS]

  movie version of something that was very [TS]

  sleek and and well-presented now that [TS]

  pair of books I we should move on to our [TS]

  fifth book I don't you like it here is [TS]

  red deadline by mirror grant i have not [TS]

  I I was living my life and being happy [TS]

  yeah I was not okay so let's recap here [TS]

  this is the sequel to feed which is a [TS]

  book that was nominated for the hugo [TS]

  award last year and and what's worse I [TS]

  came in second [TS]

  good don't even remind always job my [TS]

  feed [TS]

  suffice it to say an incomparable [TS]

  history in our modest history of people [TS]

  who listen to be uncomfortable i think [TS]

  it goes down as the most disliked book [TS]

  but we've ever discussed Scott and I [TS]

  read it [TS]

  we really really really didn't like it [TS]

  and of course the sequel got nominated [TS]

  and scott and i looked at each other [TS]

  across the internet and said well I [TS]

  guess we have to read it like and and we [TS]

  both said what maybe it's good [TS]

  well that may be going too far but I [TS]

  wanted to be open-minded about it right [TS]

  i wanted to be open-minded despite the [TS]

  fact that I didn't like feed and as i [TS]

  read deadline a few things occurred to [TS]

  me i questioned my life now I have my [TS]

  choices that led me to this point I'm [TS]

  wondered why I was doing a podcast and [TS]

  if there are questions I but what I was [TS]

  reminded i was reminded of the things I [TS]

  liked about feed em uh [TS]

  yes in that in that the world that she [TS]

  built in feed is interesting it's got [TS]

  lots of interesting rules and some nice [TS]

  texture to it it's this world where [TS]

  there's been a zombie apocalypse but [TS]

  it's kind of under control only sort of [TS]

  not but it's not like a total apocalypse [TS]

  it's just like they that their [TS]

  infestations and occasionally there are [TS]

  outbreaks and you've got to have your [TS]

  blood tested all the time but they're [TS]

  like working on it and there the [TS]

  bloggers networks and they broadcast [TS]

  their blogs and their videos if and you [TS]

  know that all I like that part of it i [TS]

  didn't want i want i don't really see [TS]

  her world-building I mean I guess her [TS]

  world building was good the way she just [TS]

  explained all of the stuff that she [TS]

  built into the world was really clumsy [TS]

  the writing style really bothered me and [TS]

  then there's some terrible characters [TS]

  and feed that are just tell telegraphed [TS]

  villains and things like that so here is [TS]

  so as i read i was reminded of the good [TS]

  and the bad about feelings and I was [TS]

  really the best thing about feed so this [TS]

  is a spoiler so if you haven't read [TS]

  speed and you you want to read it you [TS]

  should not listen to what I'm about to [TS]

  say right uh so the main character [TS]

  narrator fee scenario here someone who [TS]

  you think I cannot die [TS]

  does in fact I think it's infected [TS]

  becomes a zombie and her brother shoots [TS]

  her in the back of the head [TS]

  yes which is is an amazing choice and it [TS]

  was it was a I give her full credit for [TS]

  writing that it was fantastic best part [TS]

  of feed the rest of it was complete and [TS]

  total crap and i would like the time i [TS]

  spent reading it back but it's as [TS]

  instead I've rested well how so [TS]

  so Scott what I can't let see what we [TS]

  can agree on here i thought this was a [TS]

  better book than feet i will agree to [TS]

  that although very low bar [TS]

  yeah but it is it is a low bar so here's [TS]

  the think I feel like she did it I feel [TS]

  like the there is there isn't a stock [TS]

  villainous character like the like the [TS]

  the conservative Republican vice [TS]

  president guy who had a mustache and did [TS]

  twist it [TS]

  I I it's true i thought that was better [TS]

  I thought then learned snidely whiplash [TS]

  she didn't do what she did in the first [TS]

  book where little [TS]

  really you know you'd be in the middle [TS]

  of a conversation and then she'd go away [TS]

  and tell you about her world building 44 [TS]

  pages and then come back to the [TS]

  conversation I felt like just reset the [TS]

  world up and yes he did a little but you [TS]

  know and what she did drop in was not as [TS]

  as have painfully inserted it was it was [TS]

  a little more natural true and teacup [TS]

  Bulldogs for acute you get right right [TS]

  which is all part of the thing that [TS]

  that's the episode with that we [TS]

  discussed it was called zombie Marmaduke [TS]

  because the idea is that if dogs get too [TS]

  big then they go into zombie they become [TS]

  zombie dogs so you can only have tiny [TS]

  dogs tiny animals many many dogs [TS]

  yeah yeah and so some other than so the [TS]

  command characters brother is the [TS]

  narrator for this we we have this story [TS]

  where they are discovering that there's [TS]

  a conspiracy and below zombie-related [TS]

  conspiracy in the CDC who the CDC [TS]

  they're besties I've never trusted the [TS]

  city's no you can't they say they're [TS]

  going to cure us of things but don't [TS]

  believe them [TS]

  don't believe him first you know I i [TS]

  read the whole thing I I got to the end [TS]

  and I didn't die i thought you know I [TS]

  thought some of it was interesting I [TS]

  thought someone was bizarre we had more [TS]

  of the this very straight i mean the [TS]

  brother and sister were adopted so [TS]

  they're not genetically related know and [TS]

  she won't come out and say that they [TS]

  basically had sex with each other and [TS]

  and it's implied but they are it the [TS]

  amount of mooning that goes on about [TS]

  about over one another and about him [TS]

  about his dead sister is it is our and [TS]

  unconcernedly and then there's a scene [TS]

  in this book in which he is so this [TS]

  isn't this is working to spoil this yes [TS]

  sir [TS]

  you want to read this just stop [TS]

  listening now and never come back never [TS]

  come back to stop us take forever [TS]

  because you should not be this book but [TS]

  if you do and you don't want to be [TS]

  spoiled you should stop listening now so [TS]

  he has sex with some other chick in the [TS]

  book yes and of course he he calls out [TS]

  his sister's name in the forest set [TS]

  which is wrong on many levels because [TS]

  it's cheap and b it is disgusting [TS]

  so [TS]

  I was both disgusted and appalled as a [TS]

  reader and as someone who writes in that [TS]

  she used such a cheap and predictable [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah yeah you know so also I got it I [TS]

  got to say though there's a there's this [TS]

  affectation there there's only one poke [TS]

  him with a stick in this which was all [TS]

  in the first book is all about yesterday [TS]

  they are I I made note of for the first [TS]

  I have some notes that i didn't want to [TS]

  forget but mother that's what I wanted [TS]

  to talk about a c-collar income a list [TS]

  of the 50 name is a great detail about [TS]

  what about this character drinking [TS]

  drinking coke and I ok the idea is that [TS]

  he's talking to his dead sister in his [TS]

  head because she's in his head like [TS]

  smoke inside dr. McCoy's head and star [TS]

  trek 3 or something like that right [TS]

  she's in his head but far worse but far [TS]

  worse and he keeps drinking coke because [TS]

  she liked to drink Coke and it's this [TS]

  weird affectation and the amount of time [TS]

  spent detailing him opening and drinking [TS]

  soda and or coffee [TS]

  he's honoring his sister by drinking [TS]

  soda but it's like this this book might [TS]

  as well come with a six pack of coke [TS]

  just like as part of the tree book at [TS]

  that would bring some redeeming quality [TS]

  to it because I at least have some coke [TS]

  but yeah and that was annoying and so I [TS]

  mentioned about Leviathan wakes Miller [TS]

  uh you know imagining that the the dead [TS]

  girl is speaking to him and I said that [TS]

  that was done I think better than the [TS]

  similar plot device that was in this [TS]

  book and that's because every time he [TS]

  hears a George's voice he thinks to [TS]

  himself oh I am crazy and I am hearing [TS]

  my dead sister and that is crazy heat [TS]

  that she's just says that over and over [TS]

  again [TS]

  yeah at a certain point you think you [TS]

  know what you could just have him here [TS]

  his sister's voice and we the reader [TS]

  will figure out that he's probably a [TS]

  little crazy crazy [TS]

  yeah you don't yes we have the scene [TS]

  every chapter where he says something [TS]

  and somebody goes hot what like they've [TS]

  been with this guy how long now how do [TS]

  they not know I mean it's clear he's [TS]

  talking to his sister I think everybody [TS]

  got it then there's so there's a part of [TS]

  like where they go visit this crazy [TS]

  scientist who has this lab that's like a [TS]

  rogue lab and they're trying to research [TS]

  the [TS]

  zombie virus i liked it I liked that [TS]

  part and when they leave they basically [TS]

  like blow it up because they can't be [TS]

  they have to go somewhere else now [TS]

  thanks for coming and ruined it we gotta [TS]

  blow this place up now I like that you [TS]

  know that the but the the whole CDC [TS]

  thing I mean yeah it's a very very much [TS]

  i always conspiracy but the thing that [TS]

  really got me about it is but you know [TS]

  what ok first off it seems odd to me [TS]

  that there's this there's a lot of [TS]

  revelation of like oh do you know what [TS]

  this means [TS]

  mm no and then it goes for several [TS]

  chapters and then you very slowly figure [TS]

  out what it means when it might be [TS]

  actually quite clear what it means and [TS]

  you could say it and we can move on and [TS]

  then it also seems strange that there [TS]

  seems to have been very little effort to [TS]

  actually for anybody to learn anything [TS]

  about the zombie virus apparently in [TS]

  order for these want to happen which [TS]

  doesn't seem very realistic to me that [TS]

  after all these years suddenly there's a [TS]

  crack in the case where somebody's [TS]

  notice something about the zombie virus [TS]

  that's incredibly important to it so [TS]

  there's that and then the other part is [TS]

  feed the whole end of feed is that the [TS]

  guy who worked with them becomes the [TS]

  vice president of the United States and [TS]

  they were closely with the guy who [TS]

  becomes the president of the united [TS]

  states so in this book [TS]

  these people have amazing connections in [TS]

  the US government and yet at several [TS]

  points [TS]

  there's a well we can't really call him [TS]

  now he's busy [TS]

  why is the guy we have been out here [TS]

  about Holly most important thing that is [TS]

  not gonna happen [TS]

  yeah yeah oh it might be a conspiracy [TS]

  involving those real truth behind the [TS]

  zombie virus and that it might not [TS]

  actually be fatal and there's always [TS]

  lots of other things we learned to and [TS]

  the CDC is controlling everybody in the [TS]

  puppet masters but you know we know the [TS]

  vice president the president personally [TS]

  and save their lives on numerous [TS]

  occasions now and let's not bother them [TS]

  they're probably busy with legislation [TS]

  or something right here there's a new [TS]

  green act okay working on so since we're [TS]

  keeping the spoilers [TS]

  here's the here's the worst part about [TS]

  the hook which is I like the fact that [TS]

  he talks to Georgia is his sister [TS]

  because it's like well I killed her in [TS]

  the previous book but I'm gonna tell her [TS]

  how she's still in it right you can [TS]

  remember her and he's internalizing [TS]

  that's interesting [TS]

  and even though i think it was [TS]

  ham-fisted I thought it was a good [TS]

  choice and I [TS]

  hey chip bring the character bed right [TS]

  right and i like it sounded like the [TS]

  world but in the end of the book is [TS]

  because I said we've been set up because [TS]

  the carrot one character comes to them [TS]

  and and she's supposed to be dead but [TS]

  they found her clone [TS]

  oh and i will tell you once I heard the [TS]

  word clone I thought man she is not [TS]

  going to do this issue and the last [TS]

  chapter of the book is that uh that the [TS]

  dead character from the first book [TS]

  Georgia wakes up in like the CDC and his [TS]

  wife and that's an eye I so bold 3 [TS]

  through the e-book across the room at [TS]

  that moment didn't you Scott I got this [TS]

  book from the library because I refused [TS]

  to pay for its I got it might mean with [TS]

  my Hugo nomination payment so i got i [TS]

  was i was hopeful that it would be [TS]

  better but I was starts better it is [TS]

  better is but that's true it is better [TS]

  and I end it should point out that you [TS]

  know we criticize these things and I'm [TS]

  sure she worked very hard on it and [TS]

  ensure she loves this and she has she [TS]

  has a lot of fans [TS]

  she's left fans and so I I appreciate [TS]

  her effort but I do not appreciate the [TS]

  final problem no I i was trying to Scott [TS]

  at I was trying to think of this has [TS]

  become sort of famous that we don't like [TS]

  these books I was trying to think about [TS]

  why I don't like it and why other people [TS]

  like it and I it because it's [TS]

  fascinating to me that she has a [TS]

  following you got nominated for the best [TS]

  novel two years in a row this series has [TS]

  got nominated so why she has a following [TS]

  she kids like zombies people like [TS]

  zombies people do like zombies and she [TS]

  really like somebody's the setting is [TS]

  fun right there there's it's this kind [TS]

  of wacky bloggers and zombies and it's [TS]

  an interesting combination that you have [TS]

  another for another thing about the the [TS]

  subfloor soso the whole one of the main [TS]

  premises of the book right is that the [TS]

  mainstream media is ineffectual now [TS]

  nobody pays attention to it it's all [TS]

  bloggers bloggers are cool [TS]

  everybody gets their news from bloggers [TS]

  we are hit over the head time time again [TS]

  bloggers are where you get your [TS]

  information from [TS]

  yeah because the mainstream media is is [TS]

  no good right [TS]

  if they exist at all I mean if they [TS]

  existed and then so this thing happens [TS]

  and there's this big like a cloud that's [TS]

  turning people into zombies right and [TS]

  you the [TS]

  in characters are a group of like the [TS]

  most world-famous bloggers and they are [TS]

  sitting in a house watching the [TS]

  mainstream media right however the [TS]

  biggest story that's happening and I was [TS]

  like wait that's the ascii Annika yeah [TS]

  why aren't they read blogs you have to [TS]

  be consistent with euro and why they [TS]

  should me there watching TV it doesn't [TS]

  make any sense [TS]

  alright so so if i don't know why i'm [TS]

  talking like this so so so I so I'm [TS]

  trying to understand why people like and [TS]

  i think it is the setting and the [TS]

  concepts involved in its fun and and all [TS]

  that and then I was trying to think why [TS]

  don't i like it and as I'm reading it [TS]

  I'm thinking okay what is it about this [TS]

  that bugs me and and you know in the [TS]

  first book it was some of the cardboard [TS]

  characters and there are a lot of there [TS]

  are a lot of cardboard characters in [TS]

  this to the know that some of the [TS]

  dialogue is I mean it's really clunky [TS]

  and I I think bottom line is I don't [TS]

  like her writing style i think the plot [TS]

  is kind of bizarre and and not very good [TS]

  the the dialogue isn't very good but [TS]

  shit the world is interesting right and [TS]

  I i think so i think the success of [TS]

  these books has a lot to do with [TS]

  interesting world and a few kind of [TS]

  dynamic characters at the center of the [TS]

  brother and the sister and they're [TS]

  fighting for you know what's right and [TS]

  yeah you know and as far as i know this [TS]

  is like the Citizen Kane of zombie [TS]

  fiction I i don't mean they're not a lot [TS]

  of great I i have read a lot of zombie [TS]

  books and maybe this is among the better [TS]

  of the zombie books but but that that's [TS]

  the thing that really I noticed about it [TS]

  is that the i just i don't like her [TS]

  writing style although i will say i [TS]

  think it's better I think that it's [TS]

  better than in feed so it is whether [TS]

  we're in feet but I don't think it's a [TS]

  good book [TS]

  I don't think I don't hate it with the [TS]

  fire of a thousand burning suns like a [TS]

  hater feed it's only 500 burning suns [TS]

  for me [TS]

  yeah it's fewer burning suns that I had [TS]

  to work with but I will say this if this [TS]

  was the hugo award that next year join [TS]

  us for our nebula award podcast I'm [TS]

  going to just give up on the hugo War [TS]

  III I completely well we just have the [TS]

  incomparable awards next year that's all [TS]

  yeah there you go and I will nominate [TS]

  Mary grants next book 3 is out now with [TS]

  a [TS]

  I want to know how it is well I'd what I [TS]

  went on with anyone so many of the clone [TS]

  me just call the president in chapter [TS]

  one and solve the and then it'll be done [TS]

  yeah it's just yeah you know it's I [TS]

  don't know it works for some people and [TS]

  that's great i don't really understand [TS]

  why other than maybe just the setting is [TS]

  fun but it for me and I you know I read [TS]

  lots of different stuff i I'm not a [TS]

  snooty like oh well it must be a [TS]

  beautiful art for me to read it's just I [TS]

  just don't think is very good so anyway [TS]

  I read lots of novels that are just fun [TS]

  and obviously this is what this novel is [TS]

  supposed to be it must be a fun story [TS]

  right and i buy me my other problem with [TS]

  this book is and then i'll stop your [TS]

  other other other other other problem [TS]

  yes so if the whole thing right zombies [TS]

  it's a big deal right there they're an [TS]

  important part of this world are and how [TS]

  many zombies are in this book probably [TS]

  like to where are the zombies in this [TS]

  stupid book that was my plan today they [TS]

  have the zombie outbreak at they're at [TS]

  their headquarters in oakland right i [TS]

  would begin to get fire bond at the very [TS]

  beginning and then lots of Grandma and [TS]

  then and then there and then there's the [TS]

  zombie attack when he's like on the road [TS]

  or something right [TS]

  yeah but that the they don't really do [TS]

  anything with those obvious as far as [TS]

  shit she didn't want to taste all the [TS]

  zombie extra traction costs are very low [TS]

  zombie ratio if I were known for their [TS]

  in that it's like they're in a house [TS]

  there in a lab there in the house learn [TS]

  that house along getting groceries [TS]

  although coke drinking coke and getting [TS]

  groceries from the store I mean it'll [TS]

  fronting a lot about them businesses [TS]

  quantitative real-time is something is [TS]

  coca-cola is easy answer it maybe who [TS]

  knows and add I was that song you know [TS]

  free coke I like diet pepsi myself but [TS]

  hey whatever but i think that it will [TS]

  drink my co can think of my distance [TS]

  this discussion reminds me of a of in [TS]

  futurama literally two cops you ever [TS]

  seen like the entire series who [TS]

  apparently do all the policing of things [TS]

  like to zombies they were reading [TS]

  yeah they're really outliers their dead [TS]

  on their feet so if you do you like [TS]

  zombies you may not like this book if [TS]

  you likely if I like future blogger [TS]

  government conspiracies involving viral [TS]

  adji and the content of the messages of [TS]

  transmission of various viruses and also [TS]

  occasionally rapid cloning of people [TS]

  into adult bodies which is completely [TS]

  impossible love that anyway uh it's got [TS]

  that this is I endorse it [TS]

  this is felicia day going to play [TS]

  Georgie and the movie version is that [TS]

  the plan [TS]

  I hope for her sake but there is going [TS]

  to be apparently movie version feed so [TS]

  good laughs all right so anyway deadline [TS]

  I then i will be reading that sixth in [TS]

  my palate below [TS]

  no award hey I will not make clear that [TS]

  i did not like deadline alright and i do [TS]

  not break but could have been nothing [TS]

  but in the spirit of openness and I just [TS]

  how open-minded Scott my really are [TS]

  yes it wasn't it was better than feed it [TS]

  was better than feed if it's that is the [TS]

  feed were the only book you had ever in [TS]

  your life deadline not be good with me [TS]

  the best book you ever read everything [TS]

  was over it yes [TS]

  wow that's amazing oh yeah okay and the [TS]

  author can use them as a blurb on her [TS]

  book yeah I'm sure [TS]

  wow I want better Jenny would work [TS]

  better as a feed [TS]

  that's right can I put the I'm gonna get [TS]

  my rubber and getting my uh my rubber [TS]

  pole and i'm going to poke you guys [TS]

  because you've been touching the third [TS]

  rail and you can't let go and I'm gonna [TS]

  not electrocute myself while I knock you [TS]

  off the electrically let's talk about [TS]

  the other other other books that that's [TS]

  and nominated for a little earlier this [TS]

  year just really quickly so the nebula [TS]

  awards which are voted on by the [TS]

  science-fiction writers so same were [TS]

  awarded in may in fact yes [TS]

  so the nominees and and and among others [TS]

  one did it not willingly rightfully so [TS]

  yes it hey so among others one embassy [TS]

  town was the nominee will deserved uh [TS]

  firebird by jack mcdevitt I can't [TS]

  remember if i've read a lot of his time [TS]

  not sure if i've read that one I've [TS]

  never been ejected [TS]

  it's always fun he it's a it's very [TS]

  space opera is people spaceship so it's [TS]

  that's Alex Benedict I don't know maybe [TS]

  i have read that I know because they're [TS]

  all the same but the greatest I'll [TS]

  expenditures like Indiana Jones and [TS]

  space and he finds it people think that [TS]

  he's a like a relic like they did some [TS]

  people think he's a thief because he's [TS]

  stealing relics but he's actually [TS]

  finding relics and he stumbles on [TS]

  mysteries and he solves them and people [TS]

  are you know there's sudden violence and [TS]

  he barely escaped with his life and [TS]

  they're fun they're like space opera [TS]

  history books and he has these two [TS]

  series in the Alex Benedict is that is [TS]

  the the space archaeologists and then [TS]

  there's the hutch series where there's [TS]

  Priscilla Hutchins and she's a pilot and [TS]

  there otherwise pretty much exactly the [TS]

  same every time and the great i enjoy [TS]

  them they're they're fun so I I own some [TS]

  books by him but I have rhythm so maybe [TS]

  i will put them in my rotation [TS]

  yeah there for you I think you like them [TS]

  just because they're fun you know fun [TS]

  stuff i will sing God's war by Cameron [TS]

  early i have no idea where nightshade [TS]

  books it is it has a very striking [TS]

  however a deadly government-funded [TS]

  assassin [TS]

  I don't know anyway so that's what that [TS]

  was dominated mechanic a tale of the [TS]

  circus true salty by genevieve valentine [TS]

  i also have no idea no idea but that [TS]

  title is very good [TS]

  it's a circuit that maybe a pen name [TS]

  could be the steampunk flavored circus [TS]

  story other Zeppelin's I don't know but [TS]

  you one can hope there are aerialists [TS]

  they're all gala Zeppelin and they try [TS]

  to fit as many clowns as they can Intuit [TS]

  if it's a team that would be thousands [TS]

  of them if they send in the clowns [TS]

  Newstalk steampunk flavored and the [TS]

  kingdom of god which I have not read but [TS]

  is a Sowell by NK jemisin to the hundred [TS]

  thousand kingdoms write that book i love [TS]

  all three books i think the books are [TS]

  there they're not perfect but they are [TS]

  their unique there's a flavor to the [TS]

  writing there's a beauty to it [TS]

  his world creation there's romance [TS]

  there's just I just think they're [TS]

  terrific i'm actually reread them i [TS]

  don't have time to read much and I've [TS]

  reread two of the three and will be the [TS]

  third is there actually rich enough [TS]

  interesting enough very compelling [TS]

  characters at the center in the middle [TS]

  of all these gods and boards and things [TS]

  like that great world great world she [TS]

  created yeah it's a hundred thousand [TS]

  kingdoms is the only one I've read but I [TS]

  like that I like that a lot now is one [TS]

  of my favorites from last year i guess [TS]

  for two years ago that this is the [TS]

  second the second and third amazingly [TS]

  it's a trilogy in which the second and [TS]

  third i would say are equally good or [TS]

  better and there's some good payoff in [TS]

  the third formatting read all three and [TS]

  it's a fantasy series where there's like [TS]

  gods that have been have been captured [TS]

  by humans and they wear it so there's [TS]

  like an all-powerful God and then [TS]

  they're like gods have been captured and [TS]

  there's a whole conspiracy about like [TS]

  the gods and what they're trying to do [TS]

  and uh you know you [TS]

  and uh you know you [TS]

  girl is brought out of the village [TS]

  insurance actually has more to there's [TS]

  more to her life than she expected which [TS]

  is traditional and yet really [TS]

  well-executed i like i like that just [TS]

  meet me trying beautiful writing in very [TS]

  early novelist don't think she's written [TS]

  much and she bruises [TS]

  yeah 3 very not very solid books that [TS]

  will hold up over time I think and she [TS]

  started a new series the first book is [TS]

  available i can't believe it yeah she's [TS]

  prolific to I'll gosh-darn her that [TS]

  prolific pneus somebody in the chat room [TS]

  is saying any of the gods had been [TS]

  captured by other guys I thought it was [TS]

  like the gods and the people working [TS]

  together to trick the other gods into [TS]

  there's sort of a war between there's [TS]

  three essential recreation there's three [TS]

  central creation gods and one of the [TS]

  managers to kill one and imprison the [TS]

  other and all of his allies right and [TS]

  that's the theme of the first and the [TS]

  second there's sort of a reversal of [TS]

  fortunes and write primary God has to [TS]

  cope with that and then the third [TS]

  focuses on a low-key like characters [TS]

  like a later God important it's always [TS]

  BUTT STUFF very real very realistic in [TS]

  the sense of feeling like actual human [TS]

  interaction in the middle of all this [TS]

  giant stuff happening okay and now to [TS]

  the locus awards which are given by the [TS]

  british science fiction magazine locus [TS]

  and not by actual locusts that would be [TS]

  so cool to have a winner every year of [TS]

  the locust awards is berry blue which is [TS]

  not so good so I'm so the winner was [TS]

  embassy tab who interesting little [TS]

  home-field advantage there for the [TS]

  English with iphone wakes was nominated [TS]

  11 22 63 by stephen king was nominated [TS]

  and I enjoyed that book i enjoyed that [TS]

  book quite a bit [TS]

  mmm other people did not hope I wanted [TS]

  the locusts did not hear this now it was [TS]

  nominated that was very nice in that [TS]

  Stephen King's time travel book we did a [TS]

  whole episode about that where he goes [TS]

  guy goes back in time to try and stop [TS]

  the Kennedy assassination and it's all [TS]

  very nostalgic and nice and then there's [TS]

  this weird part where he goes back into [TS]

  the future and Maine is part of canada [TS]

  and that part isn't very good wish [TS]

  fulfillment very values [TS]

  rule 34 by charles stross was nominated [TS]

  here i read that i read to you know [TS]

  actually I i put a sort of fun even [TS]

  though was unwieldy and it was better [TS]

  than other as either I ready come he [TS]

  really kept me going for quite awhile [TS]

  with it so this is a this is a series of [TS]

  his that set in a future Scotland that [TS]

  sort of devolved from the UK and a [TS]

  semi-independent or mostly independent [TS]

  but it's part of this part of your [TS]

  European Union and so you know it's [TS]

  Stross doing some projection of like [TS]

  near future technology and like the [TS]

  police [TS]

  it's a it's a crime story and the police [TS]

  have like augmented reality where they [TS]

  are they're looking things up making the [TS]

  band you know [TS]

  yes King has a little headset and know [TS]

  that this the Scottish police woman has [TS]

  you know they're all equipped with their [TS]

  computers and stuff in there said [TS]

  there's a decryption is this one with [TS]

  the encryption pretended they find [TS]

  people dead and they had all been dati [TS]

  all dies it's the it's know the rule 34 [TS]

  thing is as we know this from XKCD coin [TS]

  that it's that any candy is going to [TS]

  print dates that ok rule 34 for the [TS]

  first few days ago if you could imagine [TS]

  anything there's pornography of it on [TS]

  here and so the rule 34 squad the [TS]

  informant a rule 34 squad in this [TS]

  Scottish police force is sort of [TS]

  policing the internet for stuff that's [TS]

  you know beyond the pale and try to [TS]

  figure out three or if it's there [TS]

  checking out me and all kinds of crap [TS]

  and what essentially happens it's like [TS]

  right i mean you know i'm going to the [TS]

  spoiler here's like road computer [TS]

  software developed enough intelligence [TS]

  to sort of influenced a lot of outcomes [TS]

  and kill off bad people and all the [TS]

  people might shut it down and there's a [TS]

  really weird thing about credit default [TS]

  swaps happening in a breakaway republic [TS]

  right have to dump the debt onto evil [TS]

  binders like there's like a shell [TS]

  country where like the big country has [TS]

  taken part the poor part of it and and [TS]

  and made it be independent and put all [TS]

  its dead inside it which is a great idea [TS]

  is it was like why is this not happened [TS]

  yet that some countries done it and then [TS]

  they then they all vote for being merged [TS]

  back with a big country shut all the [TS]

  debt and the country solvent again while [TS]

  the bankers take the ticket the shorts [TS]

  is it was a revenge fantasy games [TS]

  bankers and it's really cool villainous [TS]

  character who [TS]

  whoo-hoo we follow who like is killing [TS]

  people and he he's he's really messed up [TS]

  like he's he's a very disturbing kind of [TS]

  character but fascinating in his own way [TS]

  and you some brain chemistry drugs to [TS]

  keep him on to keep himself under [TS]

  control then you lose control and yeah [TS]

  yeah you know is that the other book the [TS]

  Leviathan wakes there's also a character [TS]

  that one of the evil that a big evil guy [TS]

  there's a bit about his eyes being dead [TS]

  like the eyes of a shark and I think [TS]

  that's also if the line isn't in rule 34 [TS]

  there's something about it as writers [TS]

  like to use sociopaths because you can [TS]

  have them do improbable horrible things [TS]

  and without my motivation right so I so [TS]

  I thought there were lots of interesting [TS]

  bits in rule 34 but like halting state [TS]

  which is the one with the encryption [TS]

  breach [TS]

  I feel like it's I feel strangely [TS]

  disconnected from the strong stuff I [TS]

  feel like I you know there's not really [TS]

  much of an emotional connection I I it's [TS]

  a parade of interesting near future [TS]

  technical like technological speculation [TS]

  and I like that about it but the [TS]

  characters are you know that there's [TS]

  some interesting characters it just it [TS]

  just didn't I don't know I I didn't feel [TS]

  it I I i appreciated it as a piece of [TS]

  speculation but I didn't like it as a [TS]

  story I guess is what I'd say and I feel [TS]

  that way about a lot of strong enough [TS]

  yeah that's sort of the best that is [TS]

  your theme that is he strong smell theme [TS]

  i think the same things to other [TS]

  stresses out great ideas but i don't get [TS]

  any emotional connection to it it's very [TS]

  mechanical even though it's very [TS]

  well-constructed yeah yeah they do like [TS]

  that i mean he has a lot to say about [TS]

  the economic collapse in the stuff about [TS]

  banks and lawyers and the lawyers for [TS]

  the banks and the credit default swaps [TS]

  and and the the shell country and all [TS]

  the positive there's an episode of [TS]

  Planet Money disguised as a sci-fi not [TS]

  not no zombies in it tho those uplands [TS]

  so it's just like deadline [TS]

  I don't know and the children of the sky [TS]

  diver nuvinci which is the sequel or [TS]

  third book in the series of the deepness [TS]

  in the sky and the fire upon the deep [TS]

  right and i haven't read it I relish to [TS]

  I'm radium i read the first two and i [TS]

  liked him but it was a long time ago and [TS]

  then he's done this third [TS]

  looking I I just haven't I just haven't [TS]

  gotten to it i like i like a lot of his [TS]

  stuff and I haven't gone to it and then [TS]

  yes Glenn was it was saying yes there is [TS]

  a fantasy novel category for for the [TS]

  locusts Lou they love their friends and [TS]

  dance with dragons one that category / [TS]

  among others which is outrageous [TS]

  it is it is an outrage yeah and over [TS]

  snuff by Terry pressure and left a book [TS]

  and over the wise man's fear by Patrick [TS]

  Rothfuss which was again like as John [TS]

  siracusa said like a good book exploded [TS]

  leaving little bits of good books scout [TS]

  around a lot i think it is in fact good [TS]

  book i enjoyed it too [TS]

  syracuse crazy it's not so your [TS]

  community what about stuff throughout [TS]

  snuff i was convinced that practice was [TS]

  going to kill off captain vines because [TS]

  area Cratchit so this is a button is [TS]

  there the Nights Watch is that it yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah I like I've read guards guards [TS]

  so I and terry pratchett is getting to [TS]

  the end of his writing career [TS]

  yes mhm and any book could be his last [TS]

  so I was really afraid that he was going [TS]

  to up the stakes and just finished vines [TS]

  off completely [TS]

  especially with a book called snuff sure [TS]

  did he not [TS]

  ok so i can i love i love that [TS]

  yeah but you know you don't write fifty [TS]

  or however many books he's up to now I [TS]

  think kill off your protagonists yeah we [TS]

  do you or M george RR martin would say [TS]

  you do but true i guess you can if one [TS]

  of your other protagonist his death also [TS]

  nominated is deathless by Catherine in [TS]

  valente I have not read that i read her [TS]

  Hugo nominated book palimpsest a couple [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  oh yeah enjoyed that I thought I [TS]

  disliked that a lot until I read haha [TS]

  another blur for her book but I've Reds [TS]

  I think I read something by plenty that [TS]

  i liked the girl who circumnavigated the [TS]

  early am so i don't know i don't and [TS]

  then among others like I said lost that [TS]

  category shade of the locusts I is [TS]

  greater go back into hibernation they [TS]

  should on the other hand in the four [TS]

  this novel territory which I glad they [TS]

  have night circus which we all really i [TS]

  think one and ready player one that did [TS]

  not which is justice and ready player [TS]

  one didn't get nominated for Hugo word [TS]

  so which is yeah well as we talked about [TS]

  that that's up with a fight who is going [TS]

  to be on the ready player one episode so [TS]

  many of us wanted to say negative things [TS]

  about it and i think i mentioned i was [TS]

  on a podcast with only client of the day [TS]

  it was a delightful and wonderful person [TS]

  and I like very much so i hope this [TS]

  adventure books I would like very nice [TS]

  people write bad books it's her very bad [TS]

  people right good books I wanted like I [TS]

  want his future novelty better so they [TS]

  may like that and I didn't say and I [TS]

  didn't hate ready player one but I [TS]

  wasn't on that podcast i-i-i as I as I [TS]

  said several times i quite enjoyed being [TS]

  shamelessly pandering to buy back so i [TS]

  was on that podcast as i said i liked [TS]

  ready player one very much and also [TS]

  decline wrote a great fan script first [TS]

  cool but her mother yeah that I like to [TS]

  nobody wanting what's funny about these [TS]

  podcasts is nobody remembers the person [TS]

  who liked it [TS]

  this is true this is true so there you [TS]

  go that's a lot of award-nominated [TS]

  novels I guess Scott Scott if you ranked [TS]

  the hugo novels how would you how would [TS]

  you rank them I among others [TS]

  uh yes what would be the first 1i green [TS]

  then i would place embassy town [TS]

  yes uh Dance with Dragons Leviathan [TS]

  wakes and I would just drop deadline off [TS]

  yes no award and then they're like you [TS]

  know I think we are in agreement I think [TS]

  we are an exact agreement there i had [TS]

  the honor of truth is not nice [TS]

  Scott McNulty listen to him is right i [TS]

  read a little bit of snow either you do [TS]

  that you're very well-read Jason you you [TS]

  and I have a similar reading taste I [TS]

  think I think that must be the case [TS]

  although I I guess what this means is [TS]

  that i should get into historical [TS]

  detective fiction and should you don't [TS]

  know what you're missing out apparently [TS]

  not if you like it [TS]

  it must be good it's fantastic yeah [TS]

  amazing and I also a read all of the [TS]

  nominated short stories for the hugo and [TS]

  there are some good short stories so if [TS]

  you like short stories [TS]

  check them out I read some of the fan [TS]

  writing they were really good that's [TS]

  good that Hugo's also always have the [TS]

  dramatic presentation categories in this [TS]

  year the warm form is Captain America [TS]

  the last harry potter movie [TS]

  Hugo source code r which is actually a [TS]

  pretty good movie and the first season [TS]

  of Game of Thrones which was submitted [TS]

  as a long-form work which is going to [TS]

  win the DVD set together commentary on [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  I i kinda like to go I I like source [TS]

  code [TS]

  yeah i would probably vote for Game of [TS]

  Thrones I like a nightmare on to so who [TS]

  I loved Hugo i love you go soak your [TS]

  number one yeah I like I'm i like I saw [TS]

  in 3d and didn't dislike the 3d martin [TS]

  scorsese knows what he's doing he is a [TS]

  pretty good director is me is that he's [TS]

  been around the block and and we got to [TS]

  say as somebody just said in the [TS]

  chatroom Hugo must-win Hugo it's true [TS]

  there anything about it must int the [TS]

  eventual in this credibly scene 3 3d [TS]

  movies one was alattar one was Hugo and [TS]

  one was peanuts movie by vendors our [TS]

  sermon movie and course those three [TS]

  movies actually needed to land all aided [TS]

  by 3d and you go I thought 3d version [TS]

  they really could use some space so and [TS]

  everything was a movie about moviemaking [TS]

  and end my turn astral filmmakers and so [TS]

  it's a it's a love letter to one of the [TS]

  original filmmakers jalandhar million by [TS]

  a master filmmaker and it shot in 3d [TS]

  which is this new and strange movie [TS]

  format by the master filmmaker it's very [TS]

  meta and interesting and and it's nice [TS]

  and the combined kids even liked it [TS]

  social baron-cohen isn't it my kids [TS]

  needed to learn about George Millie a [TS]

  they did ya get you know parents should [TS]

  really be there there when you've first [TS]

  teach your children George Malley a [TS]

  because you know they need guidance it [TS]

  firm hand it's important and he fill [TS]

  many early science fiction [TS]

  yes he did so yeah they're gonna mean [TS]

  see such a lovely fellow like I want to [TS]

  be George 98 [TS]

  alright happen i'm convinced that Hugo [TS]

  must must win you must win and and then [TS]

  for best dramatic presentation [TS]

  there's the bunch of doctor who episodes [TS]

  the doctor's wife by Neil Gaiman the [TS]

  girl who waited a good man goes to war [TS]

  and then the remedial chaos theory [TS]

  episode of community we should excellent [TS]

  that should have heard that's very good [TS]

  and not an acceptance speech from one of [TS]

  the winners at last year's hugo awards [TS]

  which I gotta say what I gotta say I was [TS]

  in my room [TS]

  those guys were very nice what the hell [TS]

  that's like when the Oscars keep winning [TS]

  the Emmy for yeah that's exactly what [TS]

  it's like I i was in the room they were [TS]

  funny [TS]

  ah what the hell so if I if I voted in [TS]

  this category III would be a tough [TS]

  choice between remedial chaos theory and [TS]

  the girl who waited which I actually [TS]

  think was the best episode by Neil [TS]

  Gaiman will probably win because [TS]

  everybody loves neil gaiman i love Neil [TS]

  Gaiman to but you know what i think the [TS]

  girl who ate it was a better episode so [TS]

  you know the foot it was a flip between [TS]

  the two the doctor's wife was a total [TS]

  celebration of the whole who history [TS]

  universe and the girl away it was a [TS]

  great original spare drama that involved [TS]

  that use the actor's exceedingly well so [TS]

  different kinds of things with both [TS]

  excellent i did not like that community [TS]

  episode i thought i did very little to [TS]

  expand on the idea of alternate [TS]

  realities which I've seen a million [TS]

  times [TS]

  killjoy yeah yes I i liked it i I really [TS]

  enjoyed that episode but you know if I [TS]

  have fun at the boat i don't know [TS]

  probably enjoy your six seasons and a [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yeah 3 seasons and then an extra season [TS]

  where everybody's fired yay [TS]

  save money everybody will be going to [TS]

  classes and studying and every as free [TS]

  single damned episode all right [TS]

  that brings us to the end of our our [TS]

  perusal of things that were nominated [TS]

  for awards that we do every year [TS]

  Oh what we do until next year Scott I [TS]

  don't know Jason who what novel do you [TS]

  think will win not which one you think [TS]

  should win which one do you think will [TS]

  win as well as the other person who has [TS]

  read all of them [TS]

  you know I'm so say hello Mike goodness [TS]

  i'm gonna i'm gonna say George RR [TS]

  Martin's gonna win [TS]

  it's almost certainly don't use from the [TS]

  the number of voters were going to vote [TS]

  for him for the reason that they [TS]

  probably all the novel's all [TS]

  yeah that would be my guess is but my [TS]

  hope is that Joe Walton will sneak in [TS]

  there and of course my fear is that it [TS]

  will be deadline but yeah that will be [TS]

  unfortunate what so but yeah well [TS]

  obviously we can read content later and [TS]

  make it all work out [TS]

  yes well if if John Waltons book doesn't [TS]

  win then it will because the fairies had [TS]

  to set up the timeline so that it didn't [TS]

  win weezer we should say you know we [TS]

  just need we need to have the [TS]

  uncomfortable winners you know what are [TS]

  after all the awards are over we pick [TS]

  our own winners and I work are a couple [TS]

  words to them [TS]

  yeah but Martin's novels have apparently [TS]

  never won a hugo well it may be one of [TS]

  those Lifetime Achievement Award kind of [TS]

  things [TS]

  yeah and and the even though it's a [TS]

  fantasy novel and it's sort of a sci-fi [TS]

  category a Harry Potter novel one at one [TS]

  point and I think was one of those kind [TS]

  of tips at the Capitol Scott is [TS]

  disgusted by harry potter star shouldn't [TS]

  we wait till the last novel I mean we'll [TS]

  all be dead by then [TS]

  therefore the lord of the ring styles [TS]

  the absolute yeah well they want to give [TS]

  it to george RR martin while he still [TS]

  alive and writing novels and claims to [TS]

  be finishing them before everybody else [TS]

  and I have to feel like this is we've [TS]

  reached the kind of the height of the [TS]

  crazy popularity of the games i could be [TS]

  wrong and it could get even crazier [TS]

  lemoore popular but I think maybe you [TS]

  could it be I don't know III don't [TS]

  understand how could but Broadway it [TS]

  would seem it would seem that by the [TS]

  time the next book comes out the show is [TS]

  going to be probably winding down and [TS]

  that seemed to be I think the wall the [TS]

  wall the first season was very popular [TS]

  and the book the new book came out I [TS]

  don't know if they're gonna beat that or [TS]

  the height of the hype but we could be [TS]

  wrong that that show is is exceedingly [TS]

  popular so it seems like the existence [TS]

  of the show means he has to hurry up and [TS]

  finish the series because yeah just [TS]

  going to stop production on the show he [TS]

  will run out of things [TS]

  yes marriages my start writing their own [TS]

  still hurry [TS]

  well they might divert and then George [TS]

  then George RR Martin's last book will [TS]

  just be at [TS]

  Avila's a which would be going to go [TS]

  from online on this and just completely [TS]

  diverge [TS]

  ya know i like that i like him to have [TS]

  to have the last book just be as seeing [TS]

  on hpl be so great this is just a [TS]

  novelization have a crossover with [TS]

  beauty and the beast [TS]

  yeah brilliant alright this was great [TS]

  i'm glad that Scott I got some of our [TS]

  rage out and then we appreciated many [TS]

  other books that were good [TS]

  yes so that's good rich cast and I i [TS]

  highly recommend i'll put them in the [TS]

  show notes i'll put links to the other [TS]

  episodes where we discussed some of [TS]

  these novels in more detail for those [TS]

  who want to go back but this is great so [TS]

  I'd like to thank my guess [TS]

  Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

  here and being so well-read thank you [TS]

  I'm three-fifths well-read thank you [TS]

  very much but the right three-fifths it [TS]

  is [TS]

  yes well done Monty Ashley was great to [TS]

  have you on and talking about books this [TS]

  was cool i I you know we can we had you [TS]

  want for the game of thrones thing but [TS]

  it's nice to have you back in and for [TS]

  you to be so well-read as well it's [TS]

  great i read all of those books on a [TS]

  cruise ship two weeks ago [TS]

  wow that's the way to do it good job [TS]

  that was the that was the wilco no no [TS]

  was that a wizards of the coast theme [TS]

  that was the magic the gathering Cruz [TS]

  was not an official Wizard of the ghost [TS]

  wizards of the coast event but did have [TS]

  many wizards of the coast employee [TS]

  alright nice that's pretty cool [TS]

  speaking as crews and strangely jonathan [TS]

  coulton is on it just as a participant [TS]

  not to mention and Scott McNulty of [TS]

  course my partner in choosing good and [TS]

  bad novel sleeping but thank you so much [TS]

  for being back and and helping me [TS]

  through my trying times with deadlines I [TS]

  I blame you Jason I blame you [TS]

  it's my fault again like I said ivory [TS]

  I'm rethinking my priorities in life of [TS]

  why am i doing podcasts where I'm [TS]

  reading books like this and this and [TS]

  that brings to a conclusion the final [TS]

  episode of the uncomfortable goodbye i [TS]

  resign despite because it is over [TS]

  over our until next time when we'll talk [TS]

  about Jonathan Coulton but I I refuse to [TS]

  be on that podcast I refuse because we [TS]

  already recorded my not on it that'll be [TS]

  next week until then this is jason snow [TS]

  for the incomparable signing off [TS]

  we'll be back I'll forget about that [TS]

  book a week and once it wins an award [TS]

  which case how do we do I don't know I [TS]

  don't know another age cast yeah it may [TS]

  be a special and our obscenity from [TS]

  being comfortable [TS]

  it'll be fun to bleep out the packet [TS]

  alright goodnight everybody thank you [TS]

  for listening to be uncomfortable [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I'd like to think Monty for suggesting [TS]

  zombie marmaduke and the cherry we can [TS]

  name another episode the same way that [TS]

  would be awesome but it wasn't going to [TS]

  be Marmaduke two electric boogaloo I did [TS]

  that to prove i'm still paying attention [TS]