The Incomparable

90: A Suspiciously Efficient Morgue

 

  the incomparable podcast number 90 may [TS]

  welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

  this is jason l your host and in this [TS]

  episode we're going to be talking about [TS]

  television show that has come to us we [TS]

  American evens from across the pond from [TS]

  the UK it is Sherlock the second season [TS]

  of the modern-day retelling of Arthur [TS]

  Conan Doyle's famous detective executive [TS]

  produced by Steven Moffat who also runs [TS]

  a show called doctor who that you may [TS]

  have heard of as well as Mark Gatiss who [TS]

  has written some doctor who episodes as [TS]

  well and did League of Gentlemen not [TS]

  League of Extraordinary Gentlemen just [TS]

  regular gentlemen hilarious sort of [TS]

  bizarre comedy show from the UK anyway [TS]

  gave us and Moffat are back with three [TS]

  more movie length from 90 minute long [TS]

  episodes of Sherlock starring benedict [TS]

  cumberbatch sherlock holmes and Martin [TS]

  Freeman who you may know from the office [TS]

  and you'll soon know from The Hobbit as [TS]

  dr. Watson so I joining me today to talk [TS]

  about the second season of Sherlock [TS]

  which aired in the UK in january i [TS]

  believe and is airing in the u.s. in the [TS]

  month of may in fact by the time you [TS]

  hear this I believe the second episode [TS]

  we'll be hearing about the same time we [TS]

  post this episode so join me today are [TS]

  Dan Morgan hi Dan [TS]

  Jason thanks for being here my pleasure [TS]

  and it's elementary that John syracuse [TS]

  it would be here as well hi jon is this [TS]

  the alternate universe version of this [TS]

  podcast where the shows are just now [TS]

  airing we just saw them I can't keep [TS]

  track of which universe wherein it's [TS]

  plausible denial isn't it great that the [TS]

  people at the BBC think so highly of the [TS]

  incomparable podcast that they sent us [TS]

  screeners generator here to the US much [TS]

  appreciated it's very nice of them and [TS]

  also with me today is greg NOS hi Greg [TS]

  hi Jason good to have you here thank you [TS]

  so we'll talk about Star Wars now no [TS]

  wait what oh no [TS]

  oh don't cross the streams uh so uh [TS]

  let's say well I guess we could start [TS]

  with the first episode of sherlock [TS]

  season two and will fire off the spoiler [TS]

  horn as we go through the episode so if [TS]

  you haven't gotten through the whole [TS]

  season yet will try to hold off on the [TS]

  season wide spoilers until we get there [TS]

  so the first episode is a scandal in [TS]

  belgravia which was written by steven [TS]

  moffat and it is loosely based on a [TS]

  scandal in Bohemia which was the arthur [TS]

  conan doyle story then introduced the [TS]

  American Irene Adler and belgravia i [TS]

  looked it up is the region of London [TS]

  where buckingham palace is located so [TS]

  very clever little turn of events and [TS]

  this also picks up from the cliffhanger [TS]

  from the first season of Sherlock where [TS]

  Moriarty has Sherlock and Watson dead to [TS]

  rights by a swimming pool which I don't [TS]

  even remember how they got to the [TS]

  swimming pool so so what did you guys [TS]

  think of this episode III thought this [TS]

  was one of the one of the better ones if [TS]

  not the best of the three of the series [TS]

  I i think it was one of the best of the [TS]

  three and it's because in large part we [TS]

  see homes going up against something [TS]

  that he never really has before which is [TS]

  to say a female i could not quite [TS]

  antagonist but competitor in some ways [TS]

  and we see him for the first time sort [TS]

  of not only finding his wits match to a [TS]

  certain extent but also seeing him [TS]

  somewhat discomforted by this idea of [TS]

  you know dealing with a woman with of [TS]

  such you know brain power so that [TS]

  provides us with a number of interesting [TS]

  scenes in which we get to watch him sort [TS]

  of puzzle this through and also his [TS]

  interesting relationship with her where [TS]

  it seems like he can't quite come to [TS]

  terms with how he feels reason willing [TS]

  doesn't know we're just it is totally it [TS]

  totally foreign concept to him so we get [TS]

  to see him a little bit more out of [TS]

  water but you do have that question and [TS]

  it's dealt with in the first season as [TS]

  well of Sherlock Holmes as it you know [TS]

  does he does he have a a romantic [TS]

  thought in his body is it you know is a [TS]

  purely an intellectual who who has no [TS]

  other thoughts about it or not and you [TS]

  know Irene Adler is a challenge for him [TS]

  on all those levels [TS]

  I think actually one of the reasons that [TS]

  he finds her so intriguing is that like [TS]

  Moriarty she's not an average person he [TS]

  sees the entire world sort of [TS]

  mechanistically that people are utterly [TS]

  predictable and she's not i mean she [TS]

  walks into the room at the beginning of [TS]

  the episode stark naked [TS]

  it's not something normal people do well [TS]

  it's 10 librarians haha its titillating [TS]

  and get it in in a way it's titillating [TS]

  to Sherlock in a totally different way [TS]

  and this is this is maybe my favorite [TS]

  thing in the entire three episodes is [TS]

  that moment where she walks in stark [TS]

  naked and we we do that the the trick [TS]

  that they do where they have sort of a [TS]

  readout of like thinks he's observing or [TS]

  things that he's reading off of his [TS]

  phone from a text message and as they [TS]

  pan over parts of her skin [TS]

  there's just these question marks and [TS]

  that the whole idea that she's her being [TS]

  naked as a challenge to him [TS]

  not necessarily in a sexual way even [TS]

  though she's been introduced as being a [TS]

  dominatrix and all the stuff but that [TS]

  she has erased all traces of her you [TS]

  know her tells her background things [TS]

  that Sherlock Holmes will be able to [TS]

  reveal so it's such a great clever [TS]

  double meaning by having her just walk [TS]

  in naked and say well try to judge me [TS]

  now right there's no there's no clothing [TS]

  for him together any information on or [TS]

  you know sort of adornments it's all [TS]

  just it's all just out there you know [TS]

  after the first season of the first [TS]

  three episodes of this i was i also [TS]

  don't remember how they got to that pool [TS]

  and I was so long ago been a little more [TS]

  already said pool party [TS]

  come on yet and i had gotten not tired [TS]

  of but I felt like they had done enough [TS]

  of the oh isn't relax so clever and he [TS]

  can just look at people and figure [TS]

  things out any Superman so this episode [TS]

  where he's well you know where he's he's [TS]

  kinda bored with that in the beginning [TS]

  with these cases you know he's rejecting [TS]

  cases and he's got a case with the guy [TS]

  with the car backfire stuff accounts [TS]

  like yeah you know like he's bored with [TS]

  it which I felt was a nice reflection of [TS]

  the viewers possibility of being bored [TS]

  with that and he's immediately [TS]

  confronted with something [TS]

  that I like with the question marks by [TS]

  the naked person I i like that because [TS]

  not because i thought like oh now [TS]

  there's nothing that he can read because [TS]

  i thought if he was actually at the [TS]

  level-headed automaton that we thought [TS]

  he was he would be able to read a lot of [TS]

  things from just like how she applied [TS]

  her makeup her hair or like marks on her [TS]

  body or something but the reason he [TS]

  couldn't is because as Jason pointed out [TS]

  he was intrigued and intellectually [TS]

  titillated by in this person who was [TS]

  acting in an unexpected manner and also [TS]

  just plain old attracted there was no [TS]

  this is not we're wondering like does he [TS]

  have romantic feelings in this episode [TS]

  it's pretty clear that he definitely [TS]

  does that even mean just like everybody [TS]

  else is just a little bit weird [TS]

  so this episode was by far my favorite [TS]

  episode of the entire series on being I [TS]

  can't use that I hate the British [TS]

  terminology of series and season of the [TS]

  entire six shows that have aired oh yes [TS]

  so this was my favorite not even close i [TS]

  I just loved it [TS]

  I and it's because i think this episode [TS]

  it make it builds on the first three of [TS]

  like all these guys really smart and [TS]

  then turns it on its ear but it's also [TS]

  in itself a nice smart episode and i [TS]

  love the fact the conclusion of this is [TS]

  not so much Sherlock figuring out [TS]

  something clever but Sherlock using like [TS]

  his heart as well as his brain to get [TS]

  somewhere you know what I mean I mean [TS]

  the ASI guess again to use the brain as [TS]

  well but i like that it was kind of like [TS]

  a romance story like a love story with [TS]

  Sherlock who's this very very damaged [TS]

  individual and you know you got Watson [TS]

  mixed in there is the the other love of [TS]

  his life is a worked every part of it [TS]

  work for me I just loved it [TS]

  I think you're exactly right and you [TS]

  know the first three episodes or the [TS]

  first season or whatever i play out like [TS]

  a high-class version of psych and they [TS]

  mix it up and I'm actually looking [TS]

  forward to the third season which [TS]

  unfortunately doesn't begin filming in [TS]

  2013 just to see how much farther they [TS]

  push it [TS]

  it's they started from a very [TS]

  predictable place with Sherlock show and [TS]

  they gone and second episode opens up [TS]

  with a place that starts heading in a [TS]

  different direction and ends in a very [TS]

  different direction Sherlock is a [TS]

  character at the end of it because the [TS]

  BBC sent us these advanced copy yes [TS]

  at the end of the sixth episode is a [TS]

  very different person than the one who [TS]

  starts out mocking Lestrade at the [TS]

  beginning of the first episode RR least [TS]

  we know him or I feel like he's the same [TS]

  was always the same person but we [TS]

  deserve because we're only seeing what [TS]

  he wanted us to see what has you as we [TS]

  better you that he does grow and change [TS]

  throughout these these course even if [TS]

  it's only to become more like himself in [TS]

  some ways yeah his walls come down a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  ati don't think he had the capability of [TS]

  carrying about what's in the waitresses [TS]

  exactly and they needed the beginning [TS]

  also is our Sherlock and Irene Adler the [TS]

  two most alabaster people have enrolled [TS]

  little bit on [TS]

  yeah she's got a lot of skin showing and [TS]

  it's very pale as a sheet and she says [TS]

  to him I cut my hand slapping those [TS]

  cheekbones there's some nice there's [TS]

  some nice touches and your two of two [TS]

  the as a sort of as Moffitt and yes I've [TS]

  done all along with the callbacks to the [TS]

  original Doyle stories which is of [TS]

  course this was this is a callback [TS]

  mostly to bulimia scandal in Bohemia [TS]

  which is the the one and only story in [TS]

  which Irene Adler ever appears which is [TS]

  was always fascinating to me how much is [TS]

  made of her given that she only appears [TS]

  in one story I think she might get [TS]

  mentioned in one of the other ones but [TS]

  she does become such a singular [TS]

  character in the Sherlock Holmes [TS]

  repertoire that you you inevitably see [TS]

  her paraded out for every adaptation but [TS]

  i like the callbacks and indeed my [TS]

  favorite who was a scene because I not [TS]

  long a year or two ago we watched much [TS]

  of the jeremy brett granada series from [TS]

  the what ladies early nineties and they [TS]

  didn't adapt an adaptation of a scandal [TS]

  in Bohemia there as well and the scene [TS]

  where he tries to basically suss out [TS]

  where she's keeping these is [TS]

  incriminating pictures by essentially [TS]

  the United they like take a fire alarm [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah and so that's there's the [TS]

  same sort of thing they do the exact [TS]

  same thing in the original story which [TS]

  is a a fake a fire to see her go to [TS]

  whatever you know she is most likely to [TS]

  protect protect what's the most valuable [TS]

  possession because they sort of gonna [TS]

  trick her into revealing that way yes he [TS]

  has Sherlock has John out in the hall [TS]

  with a magazine holding it up to a [TS]

  to a smoke alarm right so I mean nice [TS]

  little things like there was a you know [TS]

  a tip of the hat for those who are who [TS]

  are familiar with the source material to [TS]

  say look at where were inspired by this [TS]

  is to take it in a very different [TS]

  direction and of course a lot of a plot [TS]

  does not follow directly along the plots [TS]

  of the original story but they they put [TS]

  just enough in 24 those fans to [TS]

  recognize which is I think a nice touch [TS]

  that's the hallmark of like good nerd [TS]

  media is that if you're adapting [TS]

  something you have callbacks for the [TS]

  people who know the source material [TS]

  right and it doesn't distract you if you [TS]

  don't I mean it's still not only doesn't [TS]

  distract it doesn't rely on that because [TS]

  I know nothing of the source material i [TS]

  missed all these references until they [TS]

  were read the wiki page and I still [TS]

  loved everything about this episode so [TS]

  it's just so great that it's like it's [TS]

  just icing on top of icing it's not even [TS]

  you know like Oh hint nudge nudge and [TS]

  then you'll get this know you can get [TS]

  the whole episode without it it's just a [TS]

  little bit extra for the people know as [TS]

  lifelong doctor who fans and [TS]

  professional screenwriters Moffitt and [TS]

  gave us both have I have learned how to [TS]

  temper their their enthusiasm so fans [TS]

  from the professionals writers and you [TS]

  see it here because they are also both [TS]

  insane [TS]

  sherlock holmes fans my understanding is [TS]

  that like Moffat before he was the [TS]

  showrunner of doctor who he was actually [TS]

  online a lot more than he is now he's on [TS]

  Twitter but he used to be used to post [TS]

  stuff all over the place and one of the [TS]

  things he did was he actually hung out [TS]

  in a doctor who forum in the off topic [TS]

  section talking about sherlock holmes [TS]

  all the time hehehe apparently is knows [TS]

  you know that all the movies backward [TS]

  and forward and can tell you about like [TS]

  which Rathbone ones are good and you [TS]

  know it and it's kind of amazing so here [TS]

  you've got this case where where these [TS]

  guys are are steeped in the history of [TS]

  the Canon of Arthur Conan Doyle but they [TS]

  also are smart professional you know [TS]

  writers writing for a modern mainstream [TS]

  bbc1 you know me here it's on PBS but [TS]

  this is a mainstream channel big budget [TS]

  production and they know they're not [TS]

  going to blow it by making it obscure [TS]

  and so they don't so they it's funny you [TS]

  know because you think about sort of [TS]

  sci-fi nerds and these guys are also [TS]

  sherlock holmes nerds and they're doing [TS]

  the same thing we're dropping in [TS]

  continuity sort of like they do with [TS]

  that [TS]

  oh this is a [TS]

  an alien who has mentioned briefly in [TS]

  the first doctor in 1966 right it's it's [TS]

  a lot like that but it's just there as a [TS]

  garnish and it doesn't take away from [TS]

  the main part of the story and some of [TS]

  the adaptations are so clever just [TS]

  Sherlock's nicotine patch addiction [TS]

  oh yeah he can he can lay on the sofa [TS]

  with his sleeve rolled up and you know [TS]

  he slaps one of those odd leans back [TS]

  just you know like he's taking a shot of [TS]

  heroin for instance i wanted to mention [TS]

  somebody mentioned it briefly the the [TS]

  opening montage after we resolve the [TS]

  cliffhanger which was just say the [TS]

  clicker is resolved in very amusing way [TS]

  we're essentially Moriarty is about to [TS]

  have holmes and watson killed and as [TS]

  they're standing there silently with the [TS]

  little laser sights trained on Sherlock [TS]

  and Watson's heads we here staying alive [TS]

  the beginning of staying alive begin to [TS]

  play and it turns out they are looking [TS]

  at you like well what's that and then [TS]

  Moriarty rolls his eyes and pulls out [TS]

  his phone [TS]

  it's his ringtone and he gets a call it [TS]

  basically says something presumably he's [TS]

  got something better to do [TS]

  and so he goes well I gotta go by and [TS]

  that's hit which is which is really [TS]

  funny and phones in general and the [TS]

  first season the phones and the texting [TS]

  and and messages were really a major [TS]

  part of of the of the story and here it [TS]

  is as well we've got this interesting a [TS]

  ringtone of Irene Adler where she [TS]

  there's an it a nice sort of sighing [TS]

  sound let's say and then the lock code [TS]

  on her phone which contains all of the [TS]

  all of the pictures that are [TS]

  incriminating is a major plot point so i [TS]

  think it's also funny that in depth in [TS]

  these stories the cell phone which is so [TS]

  important all of our lives is at the [TS]

  core of the stories that they're telling [TS]

  here [TS]

  well show in and you know in some ways [TS]

  in some ways in in the UK and Europe you [TS]

  know that texting culture is even more [TS]

  prominent that it is in the u.s. [TS]

  surprisingly enough that it's been it's [TS]

  been around longer and it's a little [TS]

  more ingrained so it's nice that they [TS]

  you know they filled i like when they [TS]

  bring in the the modern the model [TS]

  elements it's not necessarily [TS]

  over-the-top I enjoy that they have [TS]

  Watson instead of writing you know [TS]

  newspaper accounts of homes is you know [TS]

  cases that they have been maintaining [TS]

  his blog and I see in the first episode [TS]

  that his blog actually has become rather [TS]

  popular and Sherlock has become kind of [TS]

  a minor celebrity which leads to one [TS]

  particularly oh you know i'm using scene [TS]

  which even if you're not familiar with [TS]

  Sherlock Holmes lower I think you'd get [TS]

  the reference when they're forcing their [TS]

  way out of what is it a theater and he [TS]

  grabs a hat to disguise himself and of [TS]

  course in your stalker for soccer so I [TS]

  love that I love that they bring that in [TS]

  eventually and they say everybody takes [TS]

  pictures and it shows and montage very [TS]

  cleverly done that they've got that that [TS]

  shot of him in the deerstalker from [TS]

  multiple angles in different papers so [TS]

  you can see how it was like the all the [TS]

  different cameraman for the different [TS]

  papers were there and they all reprinted [TS]

  it you know and then you've got Watson's [TS]

  blog and that that's all part of a [TS]

  montage that that the post-credit [TS]

  sequence which is really excellently [TS]

  done at that's what i was getting out [TS]

  before that the lots of funny jokes and [TS]

  references to different mysterious [TS]

  circumstances including references to [TS]

  the cannon there's a speckled blonde at [TS]

  one point which is making reference to [TS]

  the speckled band which is Sherlock [TS]

  Holmes story may do a geek interpreter [TS]

  which is a reference to the Greek [TS]

  interpreter [TS]

  oh yeah and the show doesn't like that [TS]

  title and he doesn't think anybody's [TS]

  gonna get it [TS]

  have you actually been to the blog they [TS]

  run the blog yeah they write up the [TS]

  right places that aren't on the show on [TS]

  the blog and the first season I went and [TS]

  visited and it was great because all the [TS]

  comments were also from characters in [TS]

  the show and for many of the characters [TS]

  in the show had their own websites like [TS]

  a return is it Molly is she the other [TS]

  the woman yak Molly Hooper he has her [TS]

  own blog and it's all got pictures like [TS]

  cats and everything on it it's an [TS]

  excellent they did a very good job with [TS]

  like you know flashing that all out [TS]

  I'm reminded that they did a Twitter a [TS]

  twitter account 244 Irene the the [TS]

  whipping whipping hand or the whip and [TS]

  that that that there was actually a fake [TS]

  Twitter account too so you know lots of [TS]

  really clever stuff but also that [TS]

  montage just it not only does it serve [TS]

  the purpose of of setting up with an [TS]

  important plot point which is that [TS]

  Sherlock has become much more well known [TS]

  but it's also just really funny as they [TS]

  have these like there's the guys they're [TS]

  like the 323 nerds who who say well you [TS]

  know it's like these things we see on [TS]

  the internet and they sort of stayed you [TS]

  pain away from them because Sherlock's [TS]

  obviously not interested and then as [TS]

  your painting away they said but then [TS]

  they all came true in the end the pan [TS]

  reverses itself and comes back because [TS]

  suddenly like hope that sounds [TS]

  interesting cause he's trying to find a [TS]

  case that will hold his attention and [TS]

  the best they can come up with is this [TS]

  guy who shot out in the countryside [TS]

  well there's the earth like there's a [TS]

  backfiring car and and the guy out in [TS]

  the countryside and what was it [TS]

  something fell out of an airplane or [TS]

  something in this message was a [TS]

  boomerang [TS]

  oh right it was the boomerang right [TS]

  that's it airplane was a theory that was [TS]

  that failed [TS]

  it's like I didn't watch this episode [TS]

  recently we also have like the the [TS]

  person who says that is a from the [TS]

  wikipedia page i think is the what the [TS]

  wife's ashes or something weren't hers [TS]

  and you know I that they created my [TS]

  mother but these ashes are right i could [TS]

  tell right and it all ties back [TS]

  eventually it all ties back together [TS]

  like a good TV show to the central [TS]

  mystery case we're faking airplane crash [TS]

  and everything right [TS]

  we also get Mycroft who's played by Mark [TS]

  Gatiss and he's a at a cog in the wheels [TS]

  of the British government and you get [TS]

  the sense of various points that he is [TS]

  you know he's got a strained [TS]

  relationship with his brother and he's [TS]

  sometimes help but more often hindrance [TS]

  and he gets Sherlock involved in the [TS]

  case with Irene and the and the royal [TS]

  family members that have been [TS]

  compromising photos of them in [TS]

  compromising positions it i don't know i [TS]

  agree with John I i think this is the [TS]

  strongest at the first episode of the [TS]

  first season was also very strong but [TS]

  it's certainly the strongest of this [TS]

  season easily at and also liked the bit [TS]

  with Molly you know you mentioned before [TS]

  the attack has a crush on Sherlock and [TS]

  she said she's kind of played for laughs [TS]

  mostly in the first season or the first [TS]

  series if you like yes thank you a [TS]

  little british and yes splendid and in [TS]

  this one in the first episode here kind [TS]

  of the same thing happened [TS]

  but then Sherlock kind of realizes that [TS]

  like he hurt her feelings when he told [TS]

  her that her sweater was ugly or [TS]

  whatever the christmas thing and [TS]

  everything later makes up for it so good [TS]

  is it to humanization of sherlock and [TS]

  whether it's because he's growing or [TS]

  because we're getting to know him more [TS]

  because he's lowering his walls it's the [TS]

  development of the characters [TS]

  interesting and it was desperately [TS]

  needed after three episodes of Sherlock [TS]

  Superman right well I think that's you [TS]

  know a lot of that is the influence of [TS]

  Watson to write like we've got you know [TS]

  you've got Watson encouraging becoming [TS]

  sort of his is interface with the public [TS]

  but also sort of feeding that back to [TS]

  him and encouraging him to become more [TS]

  personable to a certain extent or just x [TS]

  is sheer influence you know providing a [TS]

  a example of look you don't have to be [TS]

  this totally withdrawn character either [TS]

  you can still relate to people i think [TS]

  the casting is great because it really [TS]

  brings that out i mean Cumberbatch looks [TS]

  strange [TS]

  yes alien and I mean only 0 he's all [TS]

  angles and tall and handsome alien but [TS]

  not not conventionally right he's gotta [TS]

  be I agree with Greg he's got this very [TS]

  weird face right but it works perfectly [TS]

  for this role [TS]

  well he's a printed British celebrities [TS]

  Veila kinda weird red and then Martin [TS]

  Freeman looks totally normal in every [TS]

  way and they they fit their roles I mean [TS]

  it's it i just think that works really [TS]

  really well is the guy who is alien [TS]

  looks to me at least odd and even Irene [TS]

  Irene Adler who like it is beautiful but [TS]

  is also for from the respective American [TS]

  television shows where they always show [TS]

  a grizzled detective the 22 year-old [TS]

  woman right Irene Adler is not is not [TS]

  funny too and it's from coming for [TS]

  American television viewers refreshing [TS]

  to see a woman who is not 18 to 22 or [TS]

  playing you know it's like and someone [TS]

  who was that successful and establishes [TS]

  a dominatrix is not likely to be someone [TS]

  in her early twenties right in the [TS]

  latter will be cast because right there [TS]

  the most attractive on American TV so i [TS]

  don't know i can express it without [TS]

  making her feel like I'm saying she told [TS]

  she's not very beautiful but also she's [TS]

  my age [TS]

  oh well then she really is yeah he's a [TS]

  reduction over the incident but but [TS]

  generally really good and then the [TS]

  ending i thought was great because it [TS]

  the notes I mean maybe you guys felt [TS]

  differently for me at the end when we [TS]

  find out that that she's that she's been [TS]

  killed and we see sherlock sort of [TS]

  checking his phone and you the setup of [TS]

  it being this kind of bittersweet ending [TS]

  for for Irene and that this was the [TS]

  Sherlock sort of i equal match or or [TS]

  close to a match and then in and i would [TS]

  have to say true Steven Moffat fashion [TS]

  because he does seem to hate he's like [TS]

  the anti joss whedon sweetie loves [TS]

  killing characters and and Steven Moffat [TS]

  loves making you think they're going to [TS]

  die for certain and then have them all [TS]

  live at the end we get this crazy [TS]

  flashback to her execution where [TS]

  Sherlock Holmes is like he's he's posing [TS]

  as well as the person who's going to [TS]

  executor and he helps her escape from [TS]

  the terrorist camp and presumably she's [TS]

  now often you know off hidden somewhere [TS]

  i wanted to see a happy ending and I was [TS]

  glad i got to see the happy ending but [TS]

  we got both right we got the sad ending [TS]

  that could have faded out right there [TS]

  and then boom we get this other ending [TS]

  but we also had them them handling [TS]

  Sherlock of like one of the first times [TS]

  that now we're his friends were going to [TS]

  do something to spare his feelings which [TS]

  is a fairly unprecedented event in in [TS]

  this show so far is that what you can't [TS]

  like they want to tell her how she's in [TS]

  the witness protection program because [TS]

  they knew they knew how we felt about [TS]

  her and I knew this is a delicate state [TS]

  but this guy usually doesn't feel these [TS]

  things and expresses things but we as [TS]

  friends reality is killing them so we [TS]

  better you no telling when its [TS]

  protective of course then meanwhile you [TS]

  know he's knows making you know yeah oh [TS]

  yeah i'm up i'll keep looking at these [TS]

  old texts are more than 300 it's also [TS]

  said I know because I'm such [TS]

  intellectual but really you know he's [TS]

  fine he's saying out when I give a [TS]

  thumbs up also to a nice usage of mrs. [TS]

  Hudson where they at one point have her [TS]

  tied up and interrogating her and she's [TS]

  you know all tearful and pretending you [TS]

  know I'm just [TS]

  just the landlady or whatever and then [TS]

  we have a nice little scene with them in [TS]

  the kitchen where q reveals that she was [TS]

  holding the information they were [TS]

  looking for all along and totally played [TS]

  you know these thugs for fools which I [TS]

  just thought was a great little seen it [TS]

  also did I mean mrs. Hudson is a bit [TS]

  somebody else that Sherlock cares about [TS]

  right [TS]

  very very much yes he goes berserk it's [TS]

  totally got the window [TS]

  yeah exactly i love i love their [TS]

  relationship with her again something [TS]

  that's a nice callback to the original [TS]

  source material while still being [TS]

  treated in a way that feels you know [TS]

  makes like it makes sense right in this [TS]

  particular setting it would be it would [TS]

  be really easy to have sherlock holmes [TS]

  be mr. Spock write that to have him be [TS]

  just a it was an emotionless kind of [TS]

  computer would be ornery kinda huh maybe [TS]

  he should maybe he should he should be a [TS]

  star trek with fight mr. Spock in a [TS]

  future star trek movie but uh but no I [TS]

  mean Sherlock as a human being he has he [TS]

  has feelings he's got problems we see [TS]

  that with his many nicotine patches you [TS]

  know and and he is he can be emotionally [TS]

  affected just because he lives in his [TS]

  own little what they call it it's like [TS]

  his spot palace that he lives in this um [TS]

  he he does he is affected by the world [TS]

  it's just he's not affected by it like [TS]

  we are because he's not like us he is [TS]

  this special character but he definitely [TS]

  feels and can get really mad and and [TS]

  react accordingly final bit of credit to [TS]

  this episode is that i liked it so much [TS]

  that I managed not to spend the entire [TS]

  time obsessing over the way they were [TS]

  showing how I cell phone work or lock [TS]

  code is that because i really was just [TS]

  terrible but I giant praise indeed just [TS]

  went with it you know but now that I'm [TS]

  thinking about the episode like you know [TS]

  it's for character password and like he [TS]

  could have just brute force that in the [TS]

  time you spent thinking about it but [TS]

  anyway just what were there are a number [TS]

  of wasn't gonna wipe itself after a [TS]

  certain number of failures i think that [TS]

  was the weather was also has a bomb on [TS]

  the inside as many there was many things [TS]

  about that phone they were like and I [TS]

  know you would never have made a copy of [TS]

  it yes i did but i was watching the show [TS]

  I did not think about that so to the [TS]

  shows Chris you gotta love you got you [TS]

  got a cell phone with a bomb inside you [TS]

  got a safe with a gun inside and safe [TS]

  with the gun that's that's old school [TS]

  right oh yeah we start saying [TS]

  super-secret sealed cell phone you can [TS]

  never get data off of because of my god [TS]

  there's magic tape that holds the actual [TS]

  Sherlock's an affinity for technology [TS]

  seems to bounce back and forth at the [TS]

  beginning of the very first episode you [TS]

  know he's texting all the reporters [TS]

  during last rods press conference [TS]

  you know and they don't know how he's [TS]

  doing it and then later on he just seems [TS]

  nonplussed by like Watson's blog [TS]

  yeah because of the technology or is [TS]

  that because those technologies magic on [TS]

  TV okay right but that's the thing that [TS]

  the reason that lock code work for me is [TS]

  because the be a UH the climax of of [TS]

  that thing was that he had realized that [TS]

  she had feelings for him and it was a [TS]

  climactic emotional moment in the annals [TS]

  of typing in the phone and I am [TS]

  sherlocked and all that stuff was just [TS]

  so beside the point you're just happy [TS]

  that this this character development has [TS]

  happened that he realizes that she has [TS]

  feelings when he realizes that he has [TS]

  feelings that also helped him solve the [TS]

  problem all burst into song in it but [TS]

  everybody know and she realizes that [TS]

  heat that she had she is now revealed [TS]

  and she's cheating herself as naked [TS]

  despite the fact that she was naked in [TS]

  the first thing now she's like you know [TS]

  revealed and we see that Sherlock was [TS]

  also still his brain was still working [TS]

  when he was holding her wrist and [TS]

  everything like that great episode she [TS]

  knows that he knows that she knows that [TS]

  he knows that turtle giving away down [TS]

  there too bad about the second episode [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  yeah so yeah so from your thing [TS]

  funny thing about the first season of [TS]

  sherlock i remember watching it and we [TS]

  talked about it briefly on a previous [TS]

  podcast and you know people talk to me [TS]

  about so do you like that and I said [TS]

  well I like the first one I like the [TS]

  third one the second episode of the [TS]

  first season was really not very good it [TS]

  kind of didn't make a lot of sense and [TS]

  it was it wasn't it wasn't good it was i [TS]

  can say now the worst of the sticks of [TS]

  these i would say but this but I feel [TS]

  like the pattern is repeated itself [TS]

  where the middle episode of these three [TS]

  this time this is the mark gatiss [TS]

  episode he wrote the third episode last [TS]

  year the hounds of baskerville adapting [TS]

  obviously the Hound of the Baskervilles [TS]

  and it was bad i thought it was bad i [TS]

  again i thought that the first three [TS]

  episodes were pretty good and that the [TS]

  second episode was just not so good [TS]

  there was stuff i really liked him that [TS]

  there were individual parts of it that i [TS]

  liked as well but as a whole it does [TS]

  fall sort of flat and I thought that [TS]

  climactic scene was just too ridiculous [TS]

  which parts did you like no I mean there [TS]

  are individual scenes I just like the [TS]

  characters i like the estradas used well [TS]

  here I think I think he feels like a [TS]

  person there's a cover it what is the [TS]

  line that there's a great dialogue scene [TS]

  where they have something with you know [TS]

  they they try to pull out the old you [TS]

  know how i could tell you but I'd have [TS]

  to kill you he gets office since you [TS]

  know yeah it's as if I just didn't want [TS]

  this up so recently but you gotta get [TS]

  off the snappy was that there's some [TS]

  funny writing there's some funny guy a [TS]

  lot i like when they're down in the town [TS]

  and they go to the pub and trying to get [TS]

  information and there's some funny stuff [TS]

  there [TS]

  I think when they talked their way into [TS]

  the Baskerville research facility or [TS]

  whatever it is using my crops [TS]

  information and and Sherlock just fakes [TS]

  his way in think that's a really funny [TS]

  scene that that and and they're worried [TS]

  that you know they're going to place [TS]

  that call and figure out that it's that [TS]

  he's not the right homes and it's not [TS]

  going to work as unlikely it is as it is [TS]

  that that you could talk your way in and [TS]

  there would be no like photo ID or [TS]

  approval or something that they just [TS]

  court sorta sure i'm i'm i'm Mycroft let [TS]

  me in [TS]

  but it's good stuff in there the biggest [TS]

  problem with this episode is its [TS]

  fundamental premise it it presumes at a [TS]

  supernatural solution in the show that [TS]

  is very much not about the supernatural [TS]

  you know it's not going to be yet it's [TS]

  not the x-files talking yet that's the [TS]

  fake out the fake-out is that it's gonna [TS]

  be awful but it's supernatural horror [TS]

  spend a lot of time with the guy you [TS]

  know staring out into his backyard being [TS]

  afraid and you know that ultimately it's [TS]

  not going to be a giant red-eyed hound [TS]

  and it's gonna be dumb you know I did [TS]

  you can just sense the second come on my [TS]

  god this is gonna be so dumb i guessed [TS]

  what the solution was and if I can guess [TS]

  what the solution was you're not trying [TS]

  because you're no Sherlock so so I'm [TS]

  with the recent release [TS]

  I just saw the other day of the avengers [TS]

  movie I i was thinking back to this [TS]

  because this is the solution is no hound [TS]

  how does a an acronym for a special [TS]

  orders a special you know and and the [TS]

  Avenger of universals the marvel comics [TS]

  were like that to wear their was like [TS]

  their shield and has a ridiculous [TS]

  background him and and and aim and Hydra [TS]

  they all have their own little acronyms [TS]

  that makeup & Hound is is a just right [TS]

  out of that which is like really really [TS]

  hound is an acronym for a military [TS]

  laboratory and that somebody's wearing [TS]

  you know live Liberty Indiana and that [TS]

  would make this this kid think he is [TS]

  he's got werewolves going its just oh [TS]

  this nose so terrible I I think this is [TS]

  the worst of the entire show [TS]

  Wow but by far worse than i can run yes [TS]

  i agree yeah I like 2i I didn't love the [TS]

  second one from the first season but I [TS]

  enjoyed it and this one was a little too [TS]

  alright just too ridiculous we can agree [TS]

  that episode to czar bad we can ya bring [TS]

  happening something's wrong and they [TS]

  finally they find the need to like [TS]

  balance that you know the first one you [TS]

  sort of got the coattails of you know [TS]

  you either got the pilot or the [TS]

  coattails of the last season right and [TS]

  they stay put some good stuff up front [TS]

  and in the last one as the cliffhanger [TS]

  and the sort of the bill to the [TS]

  conclusion where the middle ones just [TS]

  like let's just come up with a story to [TS]

  put in it they converted the star trek [TS]

  curse but with with the show like this [TS]

  where there's only three episodes per [TS]

  season that kind of like you have room [TS]

  for pirates in a doctor who thing right [TS]

  you got more understanding that there's [TS]

  just no there's no with three of them [TS]

  please God just don't let there's no [TS]

  room for pirates but he has no room for [TS]

  that you can't have had the bad virus [TS]

  across the black broken up because now [TS]

  you've taken a third of the entire [TS]

  season and dump it down the toilet [TS]

  yeah it's yeah i heard i read an [TS]

  interview with Mark Gatiss and he said [TS]

  that he felt obligated to be more [TS]

  respectful of the source material [TS]

  because the hounds of Baskerville is so [TS]

  well-known and I just think they worked [TS]

  against what it is that establishes a [TS]

  really effective formula was the source [TS]

  material dumb because i don't know the [TS]

  source material but this was no I mean [TS]

  the source material even originally [TS]

  really works is it does work but it's [TS]

  cuz you got that you got that whole [TS]

  victorian-era spooky gothic go stuff [TS]

  right and that those even though you [TS]

  know a lot of the stuff is going to turn [TS]

  out to be explained rationally i think [TS]

  the atmosphere of it works a lot better [TS]

  than the original [TS]

  I would be chemical weapons causing you [TS]

  to causing my here's a good way said [TS]

  fake it i believe it at some point in [TS]

  here we're talking about genetically [TS]

  altered you know or or read and at [TS]

  attackanimal tonight with a bit i felt [TS]

  like that would have been a better way [TS]

  to go is to have it you know to have it [TS]

  be that these are like biological [TS]

  weapons or there's a breeding program [TS]

  that control something that would be a [TS]

  little more science fictional because we [TS]

  live in an era where the oh it's ghosts [TS]

  and specters it just doesn't get it you [TS]

  know it just doesn't fly and so to use [TS]

  that as the threat and say it's her I [TS]

  remember turning my wife while you're [TS]

  watching this and and saying is this an [TS]

  x-files episode now because I just [TS]

  that's not the frame of mind I'm in with [TS]

  Sherlock Holmes I'm expecting a rational [TS]

  solution and and then you know to [TS]

  instead say well it's a military [TS]

  conspiracy and there's a conveniently [TS]

  you know if you're gonna commit a [TS]

  horrible crime don't wear the t-shirt [TS]

  that says found Liberty Indiana oh and [TS]

  by the way if you're going to have a [TS]

  secret government research lab don't [TS]

  make t-shirts t-shirts with your [TS]

  location written on them it's like any [TS]

  other startup I didn't care about the [TS]

  guy with what's-his-name the guy who's [TS]

  having the nightmares arrested right he [TS]

  was such a focus of the episode but I [TS]

  don't [TS]

  they're about him I don't care that he's [TS]

  got problems like he's not that you know [TS]

  especially after the first episode but [TS]

  they made you care so much about your [TS]

  lead characters you want you want to see [TS]

  them like you want to see them growing [TS]

  through you know even just like [TS]

  Microsoft or Moriarty like that's that's [TS]

  your main cast here and the other guys [TS]

  they focus so much on a chair was having [TS]

  nightmares I know it's gonna be dumb and [TS]

  it's not gonna it's not stressing out [TS]

  with other guys to solve this stupid [TS]

  case there's no debate Mulder and Scully [TS]

  style even between them to saying oh I [TS]

  think it's go sorry can't because now [TS]

  there's none of that it's just you [TS]

  wouldn't have cared you wouldn't have [TS]

  cared who it was because it was stupid [TS]

  yeah I mean yes and water gets locked in [TS]

  the lab and he's terrified you don't [TS]

  care because you know as soon as you get [TS]

  some fresh air is good it was it was it [TS]

  I was a senior editor see was better [TS]

  though and this and this is what I'm [TS]

  getting from this conversation is is [TS]

  this is an example of a very good show [TS]

  doing a bad episode and it's bad because [TS]

  there are some overarching problems with [TS]

  it that just sort of make it fall apart [TS]

  it's not to say that there is some stuff [TS]

  in it that's good because I like i said [TS]

  i like the village i liked the stuff [TS]

  with a straw coming down I like stuff in [TS]

  the pub where there to where we're [TS]

  Watson and homes are sort of lying to [TS]

  people about their identities to get [TS]

  them to talk to them and give them [TS]

  information there's like a therapist and [TS]

  they get that get day to get his [TS]

  therapist to break confidentiality which [TS]

  is I thought that was funny i like the [TS]

  scene with Watson trapped in the lab I [TS]

  thought that was I thought that was [TS]

  scary but i like that Holmes did it but [TS]

  if I didn't it was just tedious but it [TS]

  all you know even even if you like that [TS]

  stuff i mean III agree with the [TS]

  overarching idea here which is that it [TS]

  all is for nothing because it it made no [TS]

  sense and and this and that the the end [TS]

  is this kind of foggy it's supposed to [TS]

  be this like spooky were on the more [TS]

  kind of thing accepted is it fog or yes [TS]

  it is fog but it's also chemical [TS]

  hallucinogens and and you can't [TS]

  understand what's going on it just [TS]

  yeah it was like they ran out of ideas [TS]

  and time and said well you know we give [TS]

  up the store and then the story is over [TS]

  it was just a mess on all fronts [TS]

  now I guess that we've settled that hope [TS]

  you're not looking for an argument sorry [TS]

  Marcus [TS]

  while it has a nice let's not forget the [TS]

  ending there is a brief little hint at [TS]

  the end where we see we see Moriarty [TS]

  again it doesn't get released by Mycroft [TS]

  and yes which is an interesting you know [TS]

  sort of brief moment of what is going on [TS]

  heat we see him briefly show up in the [TS]

  first episode as well as a contact of [TS]

  Irene Adler's right she's working for [TS]

  him right so we have that thread is [TS]

  still going micro you know [TS]

  Moriarty's left them alone for now but [TS]

  at the same time you know he's [TS]

  constantly in the back there as a threat [TS]

  and so we have these nice little [TS]

  building scenes with him but we don't [TS]

  entirely know what's going on right [TS]

  so in the Reichenbach Fall this is our [TS]

  episode that is obviously based on the [TS]

  final problem which is the episode where [TS]

  are the current oil decided he was tired [TS]

  of sherlock holmes was going to kill him [TS]

  which worked out great for him and uh [TS]

  and so he plunged in a battle with [TS]

  Moriarty he plunged the feet [TS]

  theoretically to their deaths over the [TS]

  record block Falls and so this is the [TS]

  episode about Moriarty and Holmes and [TS]

  Moriarty moriarity's diabolical plan to [TS]

  destroy sherlock holmes haha uh this has [TS]

  got that flashback structure that is [TS]

  still kind of invoke although you know [TS]

  it's it's used i guess to a purpose here [TS]

  i'm just really tired of that where [TS]

  where you start off with something that [TS]

  was at the end in this case Watson says [TS]

  sherlock holmes is dead and then we [TS]

  flash back to see how it happened and [TS]

  it's all about this kind of Moriarty is [TS]

  a master criminal and he breaks into the [TS]

  crown jewels and the banks and has a [TS]

  computer virus or something and and [TS]

  allows himself to be caught so that he [TS]

  can be put on trial and then I guess he [TS]

  bribes the jurors and they let him off [TS]

  or threatens the Germans them through [TS]

  the cable TV [TS]

  well I like the fact that he's a [TS]

  magician's episode 3 doesn't have actual [TS]

  magic he's a magician how do you get to [TS]

  get a put off on a trial you get [TS]

  something all the jurors how do you [TS]

  break into you know the crown jewels you [TS]

  bribe the guards and party and I didn't [TS]

  like that that the eventual solutions [TS]

  like you idiot on a code breaks also [TS]

  carried it what is that some stupid [TS]

  thing you see on TV you know just kind [TS]

  of making fun of itself [TS]

  yeah i paid I paid the guy and and all [TS]

  the things that it's done well that's [TS]

  imagine that whole set that whole anyone [TS]

  else get a little freaked out with that [TS]

  one bit where he's pretending to be an [TS]

  actor I really you know what they're [TS]

  going for there and it's like I know [TS]

  that they're gonna what they're trying [TS]

  to go for me i know that there is but [TS]

  did you did you still make it go on long [TS]

  enough they make it go on loan until [TS]

  like you started to go with Sherlock [TS]

  crazy is this and I just another not so [TS]

  much that but like really are it are the [TS]

  creators of this show so daring that [TS]

  they're going to go with this like [TS]

  straight up you know and say oh no [TS]

  really act [TS]

  those first those last four things you [TS]

  saw where the delusions of a madman you [TS]

  know and he was it unknowingly setting [TS]

  himself up to solve these cases tyler [TS]

  durden style right because I mean why [TS]

  couldn't why not do that right so I they [TS]

  did that seem long enough where I was [TS]

  like I guess they could oh no you got me [TS]

  all right it's Moriarty yeah but it's [TS]

  good and you're right there's that [TS]

  there's that great fake-out of the we [TS]

  actually see the the guards at as the [TS]

  dynamic the computer is the stuff [TS]

  unlocks and you're led to believe that [TS]

  we're seeing that standard kind of like [TS]

  Oh something's happened to our computers [TS]

  and that may be back to it later and [TS]

  show that know it was you know it wasn't [TS]

  it was social engineering basically that [TS]

  led to that and it wasn't at all what we [TS]

  were what we were led to believe which [TS]

  we tend to believe right because that's [TS]

  like the typical sort of plot [TS]

  imaginations in a modern TV drama [TS]

  including on the show including on the [TS]

  show that's right so I i like the the [TS]

  little cells and like when this episode [TS]

  started they're like oh Moriarty's doing [TS]

  these magic things and he's going to get [TS]

  the crown jewel so I was like after the [TS]

  the hands of basketball's my god know [TS]

  how they're going to blow number 32 [TS]

  I liked how they turned it around and [TS]

  said no no he just get his pride people [TS]

  yeah that was it that was a nice was a [TS]

  nice touch [TS]

  I mean it brings it brings it home maybe [TS]

  appreciate having him sitting there on [TS]

  the throne with the ground rules on [TS]

  which was silly and hokey but that i [TS]

  still give it a thumbs up right that [TS]

  this is all a plot scheme by diabolical [TS]

  Moriarty [TS]

  whoo-hoo let's see what's the sequence [TS]

  of events here is similarity is is [TS]

  acquitted and he sets up Sherlock to be [TS]

  viewed as a fraud and then Moriarty [TS]

  threatens Sherlock's friends and he ends [TS]

  up on the roof of a building right but [TS]

  not always good idea it's gotta be [TS]

  assassins out in the world to do his [TS]

  bidding any basically says if I don't [TS]

  give them a call the great kill everyone [TS]

  you care about Sherlock me it's not me [TS]

  on this on this building right right now [TS]

  it's a battle of wills [TS]

  shut up a showdown at high noon your [TS]

  brain against my brain right before he [TS]

  goes there he visits in the morgue with [TS]

  Molly and then he goes which is [TS]

  important because that's totally a setup [TS]

  for the resolution of this mystery but [TS]

  uh so they end up on the roof and in a [TS]

  moment and again we're we're we're [TS]

  talking about the third episode so if [TS]

  you do not want to be spoiled [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  do not listen to any further let's we're [TS]

  gonna talk about what happens here the [TS]

  the moment that is shocking and and [TS]

  brilliant and surprised me is when [TS]

  Moriarty makes it perfectly clear that [TS]

  he's the only one who can call off the [TS]

  assassins and if he doesn't call them [TS]

  off they will kill mrs. Hudson and [TS]

  Lestrade and Watson and he blows his [TS]

  brains out [TS]

  I love that was the trump card because [TS]

  he's like you know this battle will i [TS]

  know that you can call them off so i [TS]

  just have to figure out from what I know [TS]

  of you are you the kind of puma up sorry [TS]

  but thank you yeah the end so great to [TS]

  have sherlock standing on the roof and [TS]

  there's that moment like all right mr. [TS]

  big brain [TS]

  yeah what are you gonna do now he has [TS]

  contingencies [TS]

  yep just like a you know just like Lucas [TS]

  got Plan B and C and B it reminded me of [TS]

  the end of seven where the completion of [TS]

  his plan happens to be his own death [TS]

  except at the end of 7 it you know he [TS]

  got to see it all the way through the [TS]

  bullet entering his brain was [TS]

  confirmation that it worked here he [TS]

  kills himself too early and I i I'd like [TS]

  the Moriarty character even though he's [TS]

  you know kind of the the supervillain [TS]

  who runs everything behind the scenes is [TS]

  a little overdone [TS]

  no I can't blame them for using it [TS]

  because it Arthur Conan Doyle kind of [TS]

  invented it but I yeah I don't think he [TS]

  would have killed himself before making [TS]

  sure that he had defeated Sherlock well [TS]

  the thing is he didn't get what he [TS]

  didn't go up there planning to shoot [TS]

  himself he seems like he came to that [TS]

  realization on the roof that in this [TS]

  battle of wills this was the only way he [TS]

  felt like he could decisively win and I [TS]

  think he didn't think like but I think [TS]

  he realizes they thought it was a [TS]

  checkmate [TS]

  yeah if he stands you yeah if he stays [TS]

  alive he's gonna lose this battle and it [TS]

  but it figures but I've got that one [TS]

  trump card because I'm crazy and so he [TS]

  didn't go up on the roof figuring I'm [TS]

  gonna go up on the roof and kill myself [TS]

  he just got sort of drawn into that and [TS]

  its final triumph from like he's [TS]

  cornered you know and so I'm going to be [TS]

  defeated but I've got this one last [TS]

  thing I think he was triumphant as he [TS]

  shot himself he just didn't think it [TS]

  through quite long enough it is hard to [TS]

  believe that he is willing to go to that [TS]

  link i mean it does make an and a a [TS]

  breathtaking moment while he is he's [TS]

  also crazy i love the way it worked out [TS]

  in the story i mean i just it the moment [TS]

  where he shoots himself is kind of like [TS]

  oh my god [TS]

  odd but I don't know that somebody who [TS]

  had spent so much time [TS]

  rising up through the world with so many [TS]

  his finger in so many different things [TS]

  suddenly comes across Sherlock as [TS]

  something that is not going to bore him [TS]

  and then ends the game [TS]

  well he wants to win I mean that's the [TS]

  thing about I like the fact that he was [TS]

  that he does he does do something he [TS]

  does do something kind of rash and [TS]

  everything because I you said Moriarty [TS]

  as the like I'm the mastermind and I'm [TS]

  gonna be around for 20 more seasons of [TS]

  the show and it's I liked it better when [TS]

  he's he's silly and flawed and just a [TS]

  common criminal but wants to match with [TS]

  Sherlock this is the culmination of his [TS]

  life basically found the guy who he [TS]

  wants to defeat to prove himself he's [TS]

  bored he could be rich if you wanted he [TS]

  could steal anything he wants you can do [TS]

  anything you want but he wanted to meet [TS]

  sherlock and he comes to this inclusion [TS]

  doesn't stay around for it though he [TS]

  doesn't stay around for Sherlock's to [TS]

  feel he thinks that's the final move but [TS]

  he can't be sure i know well it was the [TS]

  final move Charlotte is dead right [TS]

  not quite but what you don't like from [TS]

  his perspective as far as he's concerned [TS]

  that he's got all his eyes and cross [TS]

  those teas and he kind of got into the [TS]

  corner but he says I i see i can reach [TS]

  her victory so he goes out think he's a [TS]

  hundred percent one and if it wasn't a [TS]

  show titled named after the character [TS]

  who you want to die he probably would [TS]

  have won [TS]

  it's a big series finale of Moriarty you [TS]

  have read Moriarty back for anything i'm [TS]

  even by name i'm gonna be pissed off he [TS]

  has a 22-21 killing him and he just [TS]

  needs to disappear [TS]

  yeah yeah although I you know jumping [TS]

  off John's point I i think it's also the [TS]

  way to view it is that this is the only [TS]

  way he could plausibly win and he [TS]

  doesn't want to lose so he's willing [TS]

  essentially because he's crazy to kill [TS]

  himself in order to give himself the [TS]

  best chance of ruining Sherlock even it [TS]

  even if it's not a hundred percent sure [TS]

  it's gonna work [TS]

  I think he figures this is his he's bees [TS]

  that he doesn't matter living lot now [TS]

  he's got it he's dead [TS]

  every move he can make the same only [TS]

  move left and hopefully it will work in [TS]

  this better living in a world where he [TS]

  knows he's been defeated but that's the [TS]

  Sherlock oh yeah I hate him I just [TS]

  couldn't walk out five minutes before [TS]

  the end of a show not knowing how it [TS]

  turns out for any if you're in the show [TS]

  well you're not Moriarty well [TS]

  so so I'm great moments on the rooftop [TS]

  with Sherlock after that moment [TS]

  afterward where he's standing there and [TS]

  that there's the body on the roof and [TS]

  then we've got Sherlock calling Watson [TS]

  and a leaving his suicide note right [TS]

  where he admits everything is is true [TS]

  because he's trying to save them and [TS]

  then he he jumps off the building and we [TS]

  see somebody fall off the building and [TS]

  land and smashed into the ground behind [TS]

  a dumpster and widened Watson is about [TS]

  to go a look at run to the the spot but [TS]

  he's hit by a guy on a bike [TS]

  coincidentally huh and you can't hear or [TS]

  anything he's in a daze he's all [TS]

  confused by the time he gets there the [TS]

  people from the morgue are carding the [TS]

  body away recording something like [TS]

  something's happening [TS]

  he's kinda fuzzy obviously efficient [TS]

  morgue yeah interesting it's as if they [TS]

  were tipped off in advance [TS]

  is that something might happen but one [TS]

  of the nice things about the way that [TS]

  this works is all the pieces are there [TS]

  and we get to think about how they [TS]

  interlock but it's not solved for us and [TS]

  that's like you know we need anybody who [TS]

  knows the history of Sherlock Holmes [TS]

  knows that the oil conan doyle tried to [TS]

  try to kill them off and then brought it [TS]

  back and so if you go to go into this [TS]

  knowing that then you know that [TS]

  Sherlock's not going to be dead you know [TS]

  because it's a british show who knows [TS]

  they could kill them at the end of it [TS]

  but you know that you have to fake kill [TS]

  him because that's part of the mythology [TS]

  so how and I appreciate that they that [TS]

  they left turn it right from the again [TS]

  speaking of those who know the sort of [TS]

  the cannon going into it thinking all [TS]

  the Reichenbach Falls right you know at [TS]

  the end they wrestle at the waterfall [TS]

  and fall off the waterfall in their [TS]

  bodies aren't seeing or whatever and so [TS]

  we have that nice little bit at the [TS]

  beginning where he recovers the painting [TS]

  of the Reichenbach Falls and so I was [TS]

  waiting the whole time for like oh [TS]

  they're going to like you know how [TS]

  closely are they going to adapt this and [TS]

  then they go in a totally different [TS]

  direction and it works so much better if [TS]

  you see if you've seen the [TS]

  robert downey jr Jude log Sherlock [TS]

  Holmes to they he wrestles more audio [TS]

  and downfalls and it's dull well I mean [TS]

  it's a different it's a different sort [TS]

  of adaptation i think and i agree that [TS]

  this wonderful definitely want to turn [TS]

  know it's great that they that they [TS]

  showed to you at the end right it would [TS]

  be really I was really concerned that [TS]

  they were going to play completely [TS]

  straight as a cliffhanger of is he dead [TS]

  hmm well I'm not much of a cliffhanger [TS]

  man here will be back for a season three [TS]

  of the guy who killed himself also the [TS]

  kind of creepy he hangs out his own [TS]

  grave site [TS]

  well what you know see who shows up [TS]

  she's living there right [TS]

  ok here are ppl say about him I mean but [TS]

  every every character whoever fakes his [TS]

  death rides always to their owners you [TS]

  neural right if you're ever going to see [TS]

  someone who you think is dead but might [TS]

  not be checked behind the tree next to [TS]

  the grave that's another always are [TS]

  yeah okay I didn't like that man it's a [TS]

  nice moment the way they pan over and [TS]

  he's behind the tree and the music [TS]

  swells and that's the end so it you know [TS]

  I thought this was AI thought this [TS]

  episode was pretty good [TS]

  um you know I love the interplay between [TS]

  on the rooftop especially some of the [TS]

  setup stuff [TS]

  yeah i don't know i mean some of it made [TS]

  me feel uncomfortable because they [TS]

  really are attacking the you know [TS]

  attacking Sherlock and the whole premise [TS]

  of the show and you're like oh what's [TS]

  what's he really doing here although the [TS]

  the tone when Moriarty's breaking in all [TS]

  the crimes that are possible to be [TS]

  broken in England simultaneously it's [TS]

  kind of fun and like what is he doing [TS]

  because you know you can't not watch it [TS]

  on the metal level of like what's the [TS]

  real story here this is too simple [TS]

  Moriarty must have some sort of plan so [TS]

  you have to have that going in [TS]

  but I thought it was good as a little [TS]

  overly dramatic i mean they're going to [TS]

  see how it's got to be all about [TS]

  everything you ever cared about is [TS]

  entire series will put you put into [TS]

  question one final episode that will be [TS]

  unsatisfying cliffhanger but really he's [TS]

  alive I mean there's a little bit of [TS]

  that that's why didn't like it isn't [TS]

  nearly as much as the first episode of [TS]

  but it's alright it was certainly a big [TS]

  step up from the stupid hounds you don't [TS]

  really get the you've run along race [TS]

  there been retold these many stories and [TS]

  now you get your big resolution when [TS]

  it's a three-episode season record ya [TS]

  know the episode length really works in [TS]

  their favor i think i agree or not [TS]

  having to frame things into an hour and [TS]

  they get to stretch them out to a [TS]

  mini-movie and I i think that has really [TS]

  benefited the series being able to tell [TS]

  larger room your stories even if it does [TS]

  mean a three-episode season it's an [TS]

  equivalent of six doctor who episode so [TS]

  it's sort of a half the length of what a [TS]

  season of doctor who is but they stack [TS]

  those episodes together and I i agree i [TS]

  like the fact that they're the they're [TS]

  there many movies that also means we had [TS]

  a two-part a two-part hound series you [TS]

  can you imagine if we had a two-part [TS]

  part pirate episode would be killing [TS]

  ourselves like come on and we have the [TS]

  two-part silurian episode of dr. that's [TS]

  pretty bad but yeah we still don't know [TS]

  what you're talking about she is doing [TS]

  this more than they used to but they [TS]

  there's another series which the BBC [TS]

  sent me a pretty much greater yes called [TS]

  black mirror that is 3 90 minute [TS]

  episodes or 45 minute episodes and I [TS]

  think and it's it's it's just it it [TS]

  works in a way that that I haven't seen [TS]

  in dead it in black mirror they're [TS]

  totally unrelated but there they just [TS]

  function is nice little chunks of [TS]

  content they do short seasons over there [TS]

  and one of the reasons i think is to get [TS]

  more stuff on the air that the other [TS]

  budgets are limited and so they're [TS]

  willing to 23 episodes here and five [TS]

  episodes there instead of in the [TS]

  American model where everything's 13 or [TS]

  ideally 22 episodes a year you know it [TS]

  is i like i said i wish i wish it was [TS]

  more like six but at the time it takes [TS]

  to do it like I don't think first off [TS]

  Steven Moffat I mean doctor who is [TS]

  almost year-round and he's doing this [TS]

  and then i'm not sure whether Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch which I just love saying it [TS]

  is is available or Martin Freeman is [TS]

  available to do [TS]

  much more than this a year anyway and it [TS]

  sounds like they want to keep doing this [TS]

  it we should say no Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch's we will mentioned earlier [TS]

  he's in currently filming the next star [TS]

  trek movie Martin Freeman has finished [TS]

  or is still in the midst of filming the [TS]

  two Hobbit movies one of which is coming [TS]

  this fall for this winter [TS]

  so these guys are in demand and Martin [TS]

  Freeman is becoming like the game movie [TS]

  god [TS]

  yeah well anyways don't forget batteries [TS]

  Benedict Cumberbatch also in The Hobbit [TS]

  no invoice only oh yes he's a dragon i [TS]

  believe i believe you up so so these [TS]

  guys are busy and so we you know maybe [TS]

  three episodes all weekend getaway we [TS]

  can ask for more but given the day that [TS]

  that they only are making to good [TS]

  episodes he hit her yeah that's an [TS]

  invention like how much good writing is [TS]

  then we talked about this with Doctor [TS]

  Who to like maybe they just maybe they [TS]

  just don't have that many good episodes [TS]

  in the moment like maybe if they did [TS]

  could be trim off the bad episodes of [TS]

  Doctor Who make a shorter season I'd and [TS]

  here they just have to do three and they [TS]

  still they just can't hang out three [TS]

  that are up to the left the highest [TS]

  level like it's really uneven for a [TS]

  series that has three episodes a year [TS]

  you know really uneven and he said you [TS]

  up down up [TS]

  I mean it's yeah so maybe maybe cut back [TS]

  two to two-and-a-half or what I don't [TS]

  know what you have to do anything you [TS]

  think back to that some of the shows [TS]

  that we love for American TV just like I [TS]

  mean that was part of the sopranos or [TS]

  something like we're at the sopranos has [TS]

  ups and downs but man they did like [TS]

  umpteen episodes that ended the there [TS]

  was much the standard deviation was you [TS]

  know how much longer this was very more [TS]

  of an even keel like highlights and a [TS]

  couple of lights but not these big dips [TS]

  you know it seems like they just don't [TS]

  have I don't know if Steven Moffat is is [TS]

  over committed or they don't have the [TS]

  time or they just have bad judgment [TS]

  about what's gonna work and what's not [TS]

  going to but it is different when you're [TS]

  trying to make things which are [TS]

  essentially you're essentially making [TS]

  three movies right i mean i think that [TS]

  has a different in some ways you know a [TS]

  different proposition than making you [TS]

  know what it's like extra 30 minutes but [TS]

  again think of the sopranos a lot of [TS]

  those things were two episode arcs that [TS]

  they just happen to be split up because [TS]

  the episodes were only an hour longer or [TS]

  whatever and they would come in little [TS]

  batches like that but you know our pick [TS]

  any other series that you want that has [TS]

  just better consistency with men [TS]

  much much more content and I don't know [TS]

  if it's this because the writers don't [TS]

  have time the actors don't have time or [TS]

  there's some some other functional I [TS]

  don't watch many british shows as Doctor [TS]

  Who and Sherlock mainly in and the both [TS]

  have the same problem of course both of [TS]

  them involve Steven Moffat so maybe [TS]

  that's part of the well I mean I watch a [TS]

  lot of pressures I don't think that's [TS]

  anything necessarily endemic to to you [TS]

  know stuff produced there i think the [TS]

  space was a hundred percent good there [TS]

  goes another example [TS]

  well I want to put in it and there's a [TS]

  lot of stuff that just has to be much [TS]

  more even keel but it may just depend [TS]

  with the writing staff in this [TS]

  particular show i do think that it's [TS]

  exacerbated by the small sample size [TS]

  right i mean if if you do 20 episodes [TS]

  and you have three or four bad ones you [TS]

  kind of shrugging off a little bit more [TS]

  with I know with doctor who with 13 you [TS]

  know you have that pirate episode and [TS]

  you're like wait a second you know you [TS]

  only have 13 make them all good and I'm [TS]

  sure like you only have three [TS]

  why can't they all be good and and it [TS]

  does [TS]

  I you know I don't know whether it some [TS]

  some of it may just be the production [TS]

  system that they don't have the ability [TS]

  to Commission eight scripts and then [TS]

  pick three good ones they commissioned [TS]

  three scripts and if you get angry at [TS]

  his finger and probably also with roses [TS]

  this case it's from the one of the [TS]

  co-executive producers so is there [TS]

  somebody really there to say you don't [TS]

  think you might not have time like it if [TS]

  it's not working you have to just go [TS]

  with it because we don't have time to [TS]

  write a new one and filming new one we [TS]

  have to just go without I guess yeah [TS]

  yeah but but that said I mean even with [TS]

  these these clunkers in the middle [TS]

  uh you know even with a bad episodes [TS]

  there are things about them that are [TS]

  good and the way their shot and and some [TS]

  of the scenes and when this show is on [TS]

  I you know it's really quite good and [TS]

  and a fact that this is we're talking [TS]

  about sherlock holmes right i mean that [TS]

  they have taken this character that has [TS]

  been on not just you know was written [TS]

  about more than a hundred years ago but [TS]

  has been interpreted in film and TV time [TS]

  and time again and done something that [TS]

  is successful and interesting and fresh [TS]

  and modern you know all it is a great [TS]

  accomplishment because this really could [TS]

  have stunk right i mean Orban boring [TS]

  and/or Orban like those two robert [TS]

  downey jr movies and it's not so i'm [TS]

  looking at wikipedia which is the source [TS]

  of all knowledge as we know [TS]

  uh and it looks like uh oh yeah they're [TS]

  not gonna even start producing the show [TS]

  until early 2013 notnot Aaron 2013 are [TS]

  going to start producing it so it's [TS]

  gonna be a long time before we see more [TS]

  everyone's going to be old but yeah [TS]

  Benedict Cumberbatch's gonna have one [TS]

  aa2 academy awards for all the film [TS]

  roles that he'll be taking in the next [TS]

  two years so any other final comments [TS]

  about Sherlock before we before we close [TS]

  the door on season two series to make [TS]

  more making yeah so I think what I mean [TS]

  despite our despite our complaints i [TS]

  think you know there's no argument that [TS]

  will all turn in tune in for the next [TS]

  season even our complaints we didn't [TS]

  like episode 2 so much but we like one [TS]

  and three and wish they would make more [TS]

  like that because it was really good and [TS]

  you know to just suffers in comparison [TS]

  would be you know it it's a good show [TS]

  make more in just one just one episode [TS]

  like the first episode of this season is [TS]

  fine that holds me for a year [TS]

  yeah one of those hear ya yep I'd be [TS]

  okay with that [TS]

  alright well that I think we've covered [TS]

  Sherlock enough for the next I guess [TS]

  next two years no that's depressing [TS]

  three episodes every two years [TS]

  alright you know Steven Moffat got his [TS]

  hands full with the 50th anniversary [TS]

  doctor who do I think so you know he can [TS]

  he can take some time while Benedict [TS]

  Cumberbatch's fighting Spock for the [TS]

  next year and while Martin Freeman is [TS]

  fighting Diegans is burgling alright not [TS]

  doing the hitchhiker's sequel I i think [TS]

  the hitchhiker's equals going to be on a [TS]

  double bill with John Carter sequel [TS]

  inhale well ah maybe they'll be a [TS]

  another marble marvelous spin-off movie [TS]

  that you can do you think so you can be [TS]

  in the excalibur was that the English [TS]

  yes [TS]

  Excalibur with Captain Britain Yesi [TS]

  martin freeman get in there [TS]

  alright so we will close the door on [TS]

  Sherlock which is continuing to air as [TS]

  we record this on PBS in the United [TS]

  States and it's available elsewhere i [TS]

  think on TV [TS]

  d already because everywhere else they [TS]

  they already saw it it's just in America [TS]

  where we had to wait until may to watch [TS]

  it unless you got the screeners early [TS]

  like yes so until the next episode of [TS]

  the incomparable I want to thank my [TS]

  guests [TS]

  Greg NOS thanks for being here thank you [TS]

  John siracusa thank you very much [TS]

  we're going back into charlotte [TS]

  hibernation now alright hibernation mode [TS]

  for two years probably and Dan Morgan [TS]

  always thinking [TS]

  thank you so until next time I'm Jason [TS]

  smell for the help of podcast [TS]

  thank you for joining us [TS]

  thank you for joining us [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  instead of saying recording we show [TS]

  imitates commenting saying saying hello [TS]

  no I have a very different relationship [TS]

  with Scott McKnight haha was that a good [TS]

  evil laugh on mildly evil haha you're no [TS]

  doctor horrible as someone who is sort [TS]

  of you know you know a megalomaniacal [TS]

  you test it is George again you're [TS]

  saying you're saying that is since as [TS]

  you are a mega woman I think there's [TS]

  going to be a really can't make the [TS]

  connection [TS]

  yeah I feel I feel that I you wouldn't [TS]

  do that i identify with Moriarty I [TS]

  wouldn't poop [TS]