87: Where Do the Dragons Go to the Bathroom?
00:00:06
◼
►
the incomparable podcast number 87 april
[TS]
00:00:11
◼
►
twenty well
[TS]
00:00:15
◼
►
welcome back to the incomparable podcast
[TS]
00:00:18
◼
►
and this week we have a theme we're
[TS]
00:00:21
◼
►
going to be talking about dragons
[TS]
00:00:23
◼
►
because you know dragons are common
[TS]
00:00:26
◼
►
feature of fantasy literature and you
[TS]
00:00:28
◼
►
find them in science fiction to they
[TS]
00:00:29
◼
►
seem to be this month MacGuffin but it's
[TS]
00:00:33
◼
►
this common thread that no matter what
[TS]
00:00:35
◼
►
else you find a fat fantasy world can be
[TS]
00:00:36
◼
►
dragons or gonna be disappointed and the
[TS]
00:00:38
◼
►
dragons are often wise or evil or
[TS]
00:00:41
◼
►
all-powerful but they seem to be a key
[TS]
00:00:43
◼
►
element that that uh travels through so
[TS]
00:00:46
◼
►
many different fantasy novels and it's a
[TS]
00:00:49
◼
►
long history as well so we thought of
[TS]
00:00:51
◼
►
Lisa Schmeisser my co-hosts assemble
[TS]
00:00:53
◼
►
elisa I Lisa and I were talking after a
[TS]
00:00:57
◼
►
McCaffrey died who is the author of the
[TS]
00:00:59
◼
►
dragonriders of Pern series of novels on
[TS]
00:01:02
◼
►
how effective it was for her and I
[TS]
00:01:05
◼
►
didn't read that series and a little bit
[TS]
00:01:06
◼
►
of it long ago but it got us talking
[TS]
00:01:09
◼
►
about the fact that dragged into this
[TS]
00:01:11
◼
►
common theme we like to talk about big
[TS]
00:01:12
◼
►
issues on the cobbles so we thought we
[TS]
00:01:14
◼
►
would we would talk dragons there be
[TS]
00:01:16
◼
►
dragons this episode so we brought in
[TS]
00:01:18
◼
►
some other dragon slayers as well
[TS]
00:01:20
◼
►
Torrey Smith welcomed or e2 incomparable
[TS]
00:01:23
◼
►
hello what hello and Sarah Barbara hello
[TS]
00:01:26
◼
►
were heading to having major fuckup
[TS]
00:01:28
◼
►
thanks for coming on so we're going to
[TS]
00:01:31
◼
►
talk about big themes and specifics to
[TS]
00:01:33
◼
►
because there's so much to talk about
[TS]
00:01:34
◼
►
with dragons and Lisa you wish before
[TS]
00:01:37
◼
►
the podcast Lisa you're saying about
[TS]
00:01:39
◼
►
dragons but I say I haven't read
[TS]
00:01:42
◼
►
anything I haven't sought out or
[TS]
00:01:45
◼
►
consciously looked for any dragon themed
[TS]
00:01:47
◼
►
fantasy since about ninth grade but when
[TS]
00:01:50
◼
►
I learned that anne mccaffrey had died
[TS]
00:01:52
◼
►
in i believe was november last year I
[TS]
00:01:54
◼
►
was still very affected by it because
[TS]
00:01:56
◼
►
our dragonriders of Pern series was
[TS]
00:01:58
◼
►
something that provided with hours of
[TS]
00:02:01
◼
►
entertainment and daydreaming from about
[TS]
00:02:05
◼
►
fourth grade to eighth grader so and so
[TS]
00:02:07
◼
►
when an author who shapes that much of
[TS]
00:02:10
◼
►
your free time during adolescence dies
[TS]
00:02:13
◼
►
it obviously has an effect on you and
[TS]
00:02:16
◼
►
actually prompted by her death I went
[TS]
00:02:18
◼
►
back and reread many of the books in the
[TS]
00:02:20
◼
►
well I recommend that the interesting i
[TS]
00:02:22
◼
►
read them through adult eyes and I read
[TS]
00:02:24
◼
►
them coming from the perspective of a
[TS]
00:02:26
◼
►
reader in the 21st century
[TS]
00:02:28
◼
►
and it was interesting to note what what
[TS]
00:02:32
◼
►
held up and and what absolutely does not
[TS]
00:02:34
◼
►
haha yeah i feel we should give mcafee
[TS]
00:02:38
◼
►
her props because she really did help
[TS]
00:02:40
◼
►
break open the door for women in science
[TS]
00:02:44
◼
►
fiction a lot of ways I mean she I think
[TS]
00:02:46
◼
►
she was one of the first woman to win
[TS]
00:02:47
◼
►
wasn't a nebula
[TS]
00:02:49
◼
►
um I have to be I'm not on that up my
[TS]
00:02:52
◼
►
rewards baidu Murder She the the fact
[TS]
00:02:55
◼
►
that she said her first step series of
[TS]
00:02:57
◼
►
Dragon Rider books with a female
[TS]
00:02:58
◼
►
protagonist and that it's a woman who
[TS]
00:03:01
◼
►
was doing this was kind of a big deal
[TS]
00:03:02
◼
►
the time and her non dragon work is is
[TS]
00:03:06
◼
►
pretty was pretty groundbreaking to this
[TS]
00:03:09
◼
►
there's a series that starts a book
[TS]
00:03:10
◼
►
called the ship was saying oh yes
[TS]
00:03:13
◼
►
yeah where were they take the brain of
[TS]
00:03:15
◼
►
they take the brain of the terminally
[TS]
00:03:16
◼
►
lady they stick in a ship and from the
[TS]
00:03:18
◼
►
splits it leave it it's a classic riff
[TS]
00:03:21
◼
►
on a trip that you saw a lot in that
[TS]
00:03:23
◼
►
period because I can also remember i
[TS]
00:03:25
◼
►
think a ray bradbury or Harlan Ellison
[TS]
00:03:27
◼
►
story about an autistic person who was
[TS]
00:03:29
◼
►
sent to explore another planet and the
[TS]
00:03:31
◼
►
argument was well since their brain
[TS]
00:03:33
◼
►
processes things differently they're
[TS]
00:03:34
◼
►
able to their able to parse the data
[TS]
00:03:37
◼
►
from different planets more effectively
[TS]
00:03:38
◼
►
than humans and robots can so you know
[TS]
00:03:40
◼
►
clearly the idea that differently abled
[TS]
00:03:42
◼
►
people could bring experiences and
[TS]
00:03:45
◼
►
perspectives to the table that humankind
[TS]
00:03:46
◼
►
could use and therefore their valuable
[TS]
00:03:48
◼
►
like that wasn't that reverberate
[TS]
00:03:49
◼
►
through science fiction the sixties and
[TS]
00:03:50
◼
►
seventies McCaffrey picked it up
[TS]
00:03:52
◼
►
embroidered it turned into an epic space
[TS]
00:03:54
◼
►
romance
[TS]
00:03:54
◼
►
um but looping back to the Dragons of it
[TS]
00:04:00
◼
►
is painfully evident she was never a
[TS]
00:04:02
◼
►
biologist
[TS]
00:04:03
◼
►
oh yeah oh well and and the unfortunate
[TS]
00:04:08
◼
►
thing is I i did trained as a biologist
[TS]
00:04:10
◼
►
LOL well the thing is if she mentions
[TS]
00:04:14
◼
►
all up in McCaffrey's planet all of her
[TS]
00:04:17
◼
►
dragons teleport and someone wants to
[TS]
00:04:20
◼
►
ask for water the Dragons go to the
[TS]
00:04:21
◼
►
bathroom she goes well they obviously go
[TS]
00:04:23
◼
►
to the bathroom and the teleportation
[TS]
00:04:24
◼
►
avoid so nobody ever has to show you
[TS]
00:04:26
◼
►
medicine and bearing in mind when I was
[TS]
00:04:30
◼
►
in sixth grade and skipping out cat's
[TS]
00:04:31
◼
►
litter boxes i thought this is a great
[TS]
00:04:33
◼
►
thing all be hard it's it's it's a
[TS]
00:04:35
◼
►
telepathic best friend you never have to
[TS]
00:04:37
◼
►
clean up after and it will love me a
[TS]
00:04:38
◼
►
defendant
[TS]
00:04:39
◼
►
lima over the planet mom because you
[TS]
00:04:42
◼
►
don't want is your buddy all you do you
[TS]
00:04:44
◼
►
do your dream especially picked but then
[TS]
00:04:46
◼
►
you read this is somebody who's an adult
[TS]
00:04:48
◼
►
and who has you know taking psychology
[TS]
00:04:50
◼
►
courses and all I could think was that's
[TS]
00:04:52
◼
►
an awful lot of biomass that's getting
[TS]
00:04:55
◼
►
deposited to avoid the most kind of
[TS]
00:04:58
◼
►
closed system so basically the depleting
[TS]
00:05:00
◼
►
the planet over time with dragon poop
[TS]
00:05:02
◼
►
how's that sustainable this is not a
[TS]
00:05:04
◼
►
phosphorus on that planet anymore it's
[TS]
00:05:05
◼
►
terrible
[TS]
00:05:06
◼
►
boron is the thing that she's decided to
[TS]
00:05:08
◼
►
use it also makes no sense i looked at
[TS]
00:05:12
◼
►
and she thought she was the first woman
[TS]
00:05:13
◼
►
to win any nebula of any kind and the
[TS]
00:05:16
◼
►
first woman to win the hugo there yeah
[TS]
00:05:19
◼
►
yeah yeah yeah she was groundbreaking
[TS]
00:05:21
◼
►
and you know when again as an adolescent
[TS]
00:05:24
◼
►
in the early eighties when a lot of the
[TS]
00:05:27
◼
►
very visible space and fantasy things
[TS]
00:05:29
◼
►
are exposed to primarily male like the
[TS]
00:05:31
◼
►
Hamid or the lord of the rings or on TV
[TS]
00:05:34
◼
►
there with star blazers or star trek to
[TS]
00:05:36
◼
►
have this world where you know women
[TS]
00:05:38
◼
►
were effectively running the show and
[TS]
00:05:40
◼
►
could impress these huge dragons and
[TS]
00:05:42
◼
►
have adventures and and become equal to
[TS]
00:05:46
◼
►
men that was tremendously exciting and
[TS]
00:05:48
◼
►
it wasn't until much much later that I
[TS]
00:05:50
◼
►
really really well but then I realized
[TS]
00:05:51
◼
►
that really the dragons are just kind of
[TS]
00:05:53
◼
►
giant wish-fulfillment machines they
[TS]
00:05:56
◼
►
giant metaphors
[TS]
00:05:59
◼
►
yeah there's not a whole lot of cultural
[TS]
00:06:01
◼
►
resonance but you know as a book series
[TS]
00:06:03
◼
►
it's something that you know I what some
[TS]
00:06:05
◼
►
kids go through horse faces i went
[TS]
00:06:07
◼
►
through dragonface i noticed we have you
[TS]
00:06:08
◼
►
know what kind a few different authors
[TS]
00:06:09
◼
►
in our list year were compiling series
[TS]
00:06:11
◼
►
and a lot of them are female authors and
[TS]
00:06:13
◼
►
I've wondered if that's I mean this end
[TS]
00:06:15
◼
►
and writing in that period of time into
[TS]
00:06:17
◼
►
the essence of the most notable Ursula K
[TS]
00:06:19
◼
►
Le Guin dragons are a key theme in the
[TS]
00:06:22
◼
►
RC novels which I remember reading as a
[TS]
00:06:25
◼
►
kid and just loving and then she did
[TS]
00:06:29
◼
►
this amazing thing where she completely
[TS]
00:06:30
◼
►
wreck on her history with the other wind
[TS]
00:06:35
◼
►
which is a beautiful book and strange
[TS]
00:06:37
◼
►
and different sort of recast all of your
[TS]
00:06:39
◼
►
thinking about her work from 20 years
[TS]
00:06:40
◼
►
before and then there's the Temeraire
[TS]
00:06:43
◼
►
series by naomi is lasting a blanking at
[TS]
00:06:46
◼
►
the moment and think no Vic isn't it yes
[TS]
00:06:49
◼
►
sochi in the temperature is modern
[TS]
00:06:51
◼
►
and she's still writing entries in it
[TS]
00:06:53
◼
►
but you know I don't want to get into
[TS]
00:06:54
◼
►
this like you know our dragons if you go
[TS]
00:06:56
◼
►
girl thing and I don't know what our boy
[TS]
00:06:58
◼
►
thing bombs or something but everything
[TS]
00:07:01
◼
►
else is science fiction rings and swords
[TS]
00:07:04
◼
►
everything else getting everything else
[TS]
00:07:05
◼
►
science explains he's a guy I think
[TS]
00:07:07
◼
►
but rocket but it's a you know it's
[TS]
00:07:09
◼
►
worth it to bring our wolves
[TS]
00:07:11
◼
►
it's a right but you know there's that
[TS]
00:07:12
◼
►
there's title hopes exactly there's that
[TS]
00:07:15
◼
►
I'm i think is a funny thing about
[TS]
00:07:17
◼
►
dragons that was at their their giant
[TS]
00:07:19
◼
►
like overpowering force you know I was
[TS]
00:07:21
◼
►
wondering if there's a relationship
[TS]
00:07:22
◼
►
between the way the little kids love
[TS]
00:07:24
◼
►
dinosaurs and the way fantasy novelist
[TS]
00:07:26
◼
►
love dragons
[TS]
00:07:27
◼
►
I think it's not just set vanishing
[TS]
00:07:30
◼
►
almost love them but readers loves them
[TS]
00:07:33
◼
►
and they write what page
[TS]
00:07:36
◼
►
yeah this is true if people like
[TS]
00:07:38
◼
►
vampires then you find a bunch of
[TS]
00:07:40
◼
►
vampire books and sadly unfortunately
[TS]
00:07:42
◼
►
why do we have to try empire drag my
[TS]
00:07:45
◼
►
dragons yes that's repeatability we
[TS]
00:07:49
◼
►
could spend a billion dollars sparkling
[TS]
00:07:51
◼
►
vampire dragons
[TS]
00:07:53
◼
►
yeah there's nothing more magical about
[TS]
00:07:54
◼
►
about dragons and there are about
[TS]
00:07:56
◼
►
dinosaurs sell because actually this it
[TS]
00:07:58
◼
►
right so it's sort of Komodo dragons you
[TS]
00:08:03
◼
►
know it's that we have quoted dragons at
[TS]
00:08:04
◼
►
the local zoo here in Seattle I can't
[TS]
00:08:06
◼
►
take my children verifying yeah the
[TS]
00:08:08
◼
►
thing is you walk into the Komodo dragon
[TS]
00:08:09
◼
►
enclosure where children were small go
[TS]
00:08:11
◼
►
in there and the kids are cluster on the
[TS]
00:08:13
◼
►
glass and the Komodo dragons are looking
[TS]
00:08:14
◼
►
at them like I'm gonna eat that one and
[TS]
00:08:16
◼
►
that one they don't hide don't hide it
[TS]
00:08:18
◼
►
like not going in there anymore so
[TS]
00:08:20
◼
►
there's that primal thing is something
[TS]
00:08:22
◼
►
how many things are bigger than human
[TS]
00:08:24
◼
►
beings that aren't you know there's the
[TS]
00:08:25
◼
►
big cats there's elephants that are
[TS]
00:08:27
◼
►
there threatening a certain way but but
[TS]
00:08:29
◼
►
you know the Komodo dragon is freaking
[TS]
00:08:31
◼
►
enormous and crazy and you're like but I
[TS]
00:08:33
◼
►
know there's a great Bitan cryptonomicon
[TS]
00:08:35
◼
►
where one of the characters i think it's
[TS]
00:08:37
◼
►
supposed to be in world war two with a
[TS]
00:08:39
◼
►
Japanese soldier is like washed ashore
[TS]
00:08:41
◼
►
on some Island is part of the convoluted
[TS]
00:08:43
◼
►
plot netbook ACCC's Komodo dragons and
[TS]
00:08:46
◼
►
one comes out like it's one of the guys
[TS]
00:08:47
◼
►
he's with and they're thinking they've
[TS]
00:08:49
◼
►
lost their minds because they never seen
[TS]
00:08:51
◼
►
anything like this before but I there's
[TS]
00:08:52
◼
►
that thing like it's so big like
[TS]
00:08:54
◼
►
dinosaurs dragons are so huge and
[TS]
00:08:56
◼
►
powerful and they're often magic they
[TS]
00:08:58
◼
►
can teleport or they in the tremor
[TS]
00:09:01
◼
►
series they have
[TS]
00:09:02
◼
►
the you know they obviously can't fly in
[TS]
00:09:05
◼
►
violation of laws of physics but they
[TS]
00:09:06
◼
►
also have here they can speak from birth
[TS]
00:09:09
◼
►
or even while they're in the egg so
[TS]
00:09:10
◼
►
there's that
[TS]
00:09:11
◼
►
what if there's a theme there that that
[TS]
00:09:13
◼
►
dragon journey for communication miss
[TS]
00:09:15
◼
►
tonight again with the burn things I
[TS]
00:09:18
◼
►
went in the cafe decide to write the
[TS]
00:09:19
◼
►
origin of the Dragons she has a
[TS]
00:09:21
◼
►
geneticist go in and engineer them so
[TS]
00:09:23
◼
►
they're telepathic and she did in the
[TS]
00:09:27
◼
►
engineer also builds in a failed state
[TS]
00:09:28
◼
►
that the Dragons have to find a human to
[TS]
00:09:31
◼
►
whom will be subordinate otherwise
[TS]
00:09:33
◼
►
they'll die in the reasons as a
[TS]
00:09:34
◼
►
fail-safe is because the last thing you
[TS]
00:09:35
◼
►
want is an independently thinking alpha
[TS]
00:09:37
◼
►
predator uncontrolled rampaging this
[TS]
00:09:40
◼
►
um but the magic element I i wonder if
[TS]
00:09:46
◼
►
it has something to do with the fact
[TS]
00:09:46
◼
►
that dragons are so ubiquitous in human
[TS]
00:09:50
◼
►
cultures and have been since bc times i
[TS]
00:09:53
◼
►
remember reading an article in The New
[TS]
00:09:54
◼
►
York Times a couple years ago that
[TS]
00:09:55
◼
►
pointed out that dragons have hit
[TS]
00:09:57
◼
►
virtually every continent save
[TS]
00:09:59
◼
►
Antarctica every single almost every
[TS]
00:10:01
◼
►
continent has a civilization that has
[TS]
00:10:03
◼
►
had dragons as part of its mythology
[TS]
00:10:05
◼
►
lower creation story and one person was
[TS]
00:10:08
◼
►
the arising that this is because a
[TS]
00:10:10
◼
►
dragon is essentially an amalgamation of
[TS]
00:10:11
◼
►
a bear you know in terms of the body
[TS]
00:10:14
◼
►
size proportion and of Reptoids like
[TS]
00:10:17
◼
►
snakes and Komodo dragons and of big
[TS]
00:10:19
◼
►
cats and those are the kind of predators
[TS]
00:10:21
◼
►
that were most likely to pick off for a
[TS]
00:10:23
◼
►
fish ancestors and so if this this
[TS]
00:10:25
◼
►
amalgamation of alpha predators that can
[TS]
00:10:27
◼
►
kill us has been in our subconscious
[TS]
00:10:29
◼
►
since we were preferable dragons our way
[TS]
00:10:32
◼
►
that we ve atmosphere and and try to try
[TS]
00:10:35
◼
►
to turn to something divine I feel like
[TS]
00:10:37
◼
►
some of our will old myths are very much
[TS]
00:10:40
◼
►
you know they indicate this as well
[TS]
00:10:42
◼
►
because like all the old myths are
[TS]
00:10:44
◼
►
dragons are bad
[TS]
00:10:45
◼
►
they're here they're scary and they have
[TS]
00:10:47
◼
►
to be defeated like st. george of the
[TS]
00:10:49
◼
►
Dragon and you know the the myth of
[TS]
00:10:50
◼
►
Fafnir in Norse mythology but like
[TS]
00:10:53
◼
►
recent stories about dragons are all
[TS]
00:10:56
◼
►
dragons are friendly you know they're
[TS]
00:10:58
◼
►
dangerous but you can make friends with
[TS]
00:10:59
◼
►
them and get them to fly around places
[TS]
00:11:01
◼
►
that's it's good it's funny that bonding
[TS]
00:11:03
◼
►
thing to its you know if you are the
[TS]
00:11:06
◼
►
Temeraire Series last year we should we
[TS]
00:11:08
◼
►
could talk about some specifics at the
[TS]
00:11:09
◼
►
temporaries I quite like I picked up i
[TS]
00:11:12
◼
►
think amazon had like a free the first
[TS]
00:11:14
◼
►
novel as a free kindle book or it was
[TS]
00:11:16
◼
►
incredibly cheap and I looked at reviews
[TS]
00:11:17
◼
►
I'm like I don't want to drag in novel
[TS]
00:11:20
◼
►
and short can be awful and some dragons
[TS]
00:11:22
◼
►
at the time of Lord Nelson and they're
[TS]
00:11:24
◼
►
using military campaigns ridiculous and
[TS]
00:11:26
◼
►
i started reading it and it's fantastic
[TS]
00:11:28
◼
►
i'm not a military history buff
[TS]
00:11:30
◼
►
I'm not like a Napoleonic war guy and
[TS]
00:11:32
◼
►
not even the period novel person it's
[TS]
00:11:35
◼
►
it's a beautiful book and the the it's
[TS]
00:11:37
◼
►
it presents an entirely realistic world
[TS]
00:11:39
◼
►
in which you know it's like there's a
[TS]
00:11:41
◼
►
great starter life like Night Live
[TS]
00:11:43
◼
►
sketch of your scale which is this what
[TS]
00:11:45
◼
►
if series is what if Caesar and had a
[TS]
00:11:47
◼
►
Piper Cub the intonation Caesar drop and
[TS]
00:11:49
◼
►
stop them
[TS]
00:11:50
◼
►
what sort of my record what if what if
[TS]
00:11:53
◼
►
Nelson army and Napoleon had dragons and
[TS]
00:11:57
◼
►
what it reads like them is you know the
[TS]
00:11:58
◼
►
real military battle she thought out how
[TS]
00:12:00
◼
►
you would have military engagements
[TS]
00:12:02
◼
►
among you know a lot about a dragon some
[TS]
00:12:05
◼
►
which can breathe fire and they can fly
[TS]
00:12:06
◼
►
and you have the outfit the dragons are
[TS]
00:12:09
◼
►
like ships so they have these guys
[TS]
00:12:10
◼
►
strapped with carabiners all over the
[TS]
00:12:12
◼
►
dragon and harnessed so they can be
[TS]
00:12:14
◼
►
engaging and you know they disengaged
[TS]
00:12:16
◼
►
your hand and combat in the air and it's
[TS]
00:12:18
◼
►
it's really quite lovely but the they
[TS]
00:12:21
◼
►
you know they get to this human
[TS]
00:12:22
◼
►
relationship as this was talking about
[TS]
00:12:24
◼
►
with the bonding in the dragonriders of
[TS]
00:12:26
◼
►
Pern you know now we know that is
[TS]
00:12:29
◼
►
clearly playing towards that is the
[TS]
00:12:30
◼
►
Dragons bond even in the egg I think to
[TS]
00:12:33
◼
►
someone and that person is sort of
[TS]
00:12:34
◼
►
ruined in society so the flyers in
[TS]
00:12:36
◼
►
England their outfit for other
[TS]
00:12:38
◼
►
consumption they have to live out in the
[TS]
00:12:39
◼
►
middle of nowhere with the Dragons
[TS]
00:12:40
◼
►
they're basically I kind of a band so
[TS]
00:12:42
◼
►
the story of the novel start with a
[TS]
00:12:44
◼
►
fellow is authorized the apple tree and
[TS]
00:12:48
◼
►
has no interest in being a dragonrider
[TS]
00:12:49
◼
►
they manage to steal an egg from the
[TS]
00:12:51
◼
►
French that the Chinese are given the
[TS]
00:12:53
◼
►
french for some Imperial Dragon and the
[TS]
00:12:55
◼
►
dragon bonds with him is the only
[TS]
00:12:57
◼
►
appropriate person
[TS]
00:12:58
◼
►
so he has to leave this whole career so
[TS]
00:13:00
◼
►
it's it's very moving and they develop
[TS]
00:13:01
◼
►
this very touching relationship in the
[TS]
00:13:03
◼
►
dragon is incredibly smart and I think
[TS]
00:13:05
◼
►
every three of the novel's now and I'm
[TS]
00:13:07
◼
►
surprised every time I pick it up and
[TS]
00:13:09
◼
►
like really i'm reading this and you
[TS]
00:13:11
◼
►
know it's it's um it's lovely stuff
[TS]
00:13:15
◼
►
Sarah do you have a favorite to have
[TS]
00:13:16
◼
►
some dragon favorites
[TS]
00:13:18
◼
►
oh i have to admit i actually just
[TS]
00:13:21
◼
►
really picked up my and efficacy read
[TS]
00:13:23
◼
►
was one of the first sort of dragon
[TS]
00:13:25
◼
►
books that i read and i I've kept my
[TS]
00:13:26
◼
►
copy to the years and they were very
[TS]
00:13:28
◼
►
well and I i have to agree that that the
[TS]
00:13:32
◼
►
the dragonriders of Pern serious did not
[TS]
00:13:35
◼
►
wear nearly falling from i started
[TS]
00:13:38
◼
►
rereading the the dragonriders of Pern
[TS]
00:13:41
◼
►
the the one with lesson Jackson then the
[TS]
00:13:45
◼
►
characters just didn't really behave
[TS]
00:13:48
◼
►
quite like I remember them but no no
[TS]
00:13:50
◼
►
they really don't do that
[TS]
00:13:51
◼
►
no it's it's so unfortunate because i
[TS]
00:13:54
◼
►
love them so much when I was like that
[TS]
00:13:56
◼
►
old and then there's like portion has
[TS]
00:13:58
◼
►
like the the romance of riding a horse
[TS]
00:14:00
◼
►
that the verses are already horse
[TS]
00:14:02
◼
►
I don't know the reality of riding horse
[TS]
00:14:04
◼
►
is actually very often and once they
[TS]
00:14:06
◼
►
don't think the reality of taking care
[TS]
00:14:07
◼
►
of a horse I bet your partner practical
[TS]
00:14:08
◼
►
part of the problem is to is again when
[TS]
00:14:10
◼
►
you read these books through the 21st
[TS]
00:14:12
◼
►
century perspective these characters or
[TS]
00:14:14
◼
►
either very poorly served by the author
[TS]
00:14:17
◼
►
was a mccafe really seems to have it in
[TS]
00:14:19
◼
►
for a sort of women where they're
[TS]
00:14:20
◼
►
simultaneously awesome insufferable um
[TS]
00:14:23
◼
►
and the men are just as high-handed
[TS]
00:14:26
◼
►
bossy you snobs maybe it's except for
[TS]
00:14:30
◼
►
the very select few and the way she
[TS]
00:14:32
◼
►
writes gay men is just the way she
[TS]
00:14:35
◼
►
raised the game is just a hate crime and
[TS]
00:14:37
◼
►
it's for its time period
[TS]
00:14:41
◼
►
well II and again we should probably
[TS]
00:14:43
◼
►
give her credit for incorporating them
[TS]
00:14:45
◼
►
as healthy functioning matter-of-fact
[TS]
00:14:46
◼
►
members in a society because that was
[TS]
00:14:49
◼
►
pretty rare in the sixties and seventies
[TS]
00:14:50
◼
►
and and to be honest i missed it when i
[TS]
00:14:54
◼
►
first started reading the books as a
[TS]
00:14:55
◼
►
fourth and fifth grader it wasn't until
[TS]
00:14:56
◼
►
like the penny dropped during puberty
[TS]
00:14:58
◼
►
that I'm like hey wait a minute and you
[TS]
00:15:02
◼
►
know so credit McCaffrey for being able
[TS]
00:15:03
◼
►
to write it in that way but then when
[TS]
00:15:05
◼
►
you go back and again you read the books
[TS]
00:15:07
◼
►
you're like wow this this is just
[TS]
00:15:11
◼
►
is this man does dismount the dragon he
[TS]
00:15:14
◼
►
pisses off a dragon it's making yeah i'm
[TS]
00:15:18
◼
►
i'm not a game of thrones watcher but I
[TS]
00:15:20
◼
►
understand other dragons and game is
[TS]
00:15:22
◼
►
thrown in there are a game of thrones
[TS]
00:15:25
◼
►
yeah there's some there are definitely
[TS]
00:15:26
◼
►
dragons and they're not as they're not
[TS]
00:15:30
◼
►
really characters per se i feel like
[TS]
00:15:32
◼
►
they're more plot points the the exiled
[TS]
00:15:35
◼
►
queen and spoiler by the way I'm wearing
[TS]
00:15:40
◼
►
what I'm wearing right now
[TS]
00:15:42
◼
►
[Music]
[TS]
00:15:46
◼
►
so she has these three dragon eggs that
[TS]
00:15:49
◼
►
she gets as a present when she gets
[TS]
00:15:50
◼
►
married and after her husband dies she
[TS]
00:15:54
◼
►
put them in the fire and they like maybe
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
they've been stone forever and put them
[TS]
00:15:59
◼
►
in the fire husband's funeral pyre and
[TS]
00:16:01
◼
►
they emerge and they the first time that
[TS]
00:16:06
◼
►
anybody seen dragons in the world for
[TS]
00:16:08
◼
►
like hundreds of years and so is it was
[TS]
00:16:10
◼
►
the symbol of her old family so it's not
[TS]
00:16:13
◼
►
like she's coming back her family's
[TS]
00:16:15
◼
►
coming back into power and you know the
[TS]
00:16:17
◼
►
Dragons for it like a herald of that so
[TS]
00:16:19
◼
►
i have to say the dragons are not really
[TS]
00:16:21
◼
►
they're talking about a lot but they're
[TS]
00:16:24
◼
►
not much as characters in the game of
[TS]
00:16:27
◼
►
thrones like Harry Potter or two is you
[TS]
00:16:29
◼
►
know you have all the dragons throughout
[TS]
00:16:30
◼
►
harrypotter but they're not actually
[TS]
00:16:31
◼
►
that interesting there's sort of plot
[TS]
00:16:33
◼
►
devices and they don't have they seem to
[TS]
00:16:35
◼
►
be kind of dumb beasts I i like how
[TS]
00:16:37
◼
►
they're basically the fantasy equivalent
[TS]
00:16:39
◼
►
of the Yellowstone wolves because you
[TS]
00:16:42
◼
►
know the u.s. Park Service has been
[TS]
00:16:43
◼
►
involved in improving the wolves in
[TS]
00:16:46
◼
►
Yellowstone and tracking them and
[TS]
00:16:48
◼
►
studying them and basically you have a
[TS]
00:16:50
◼
►
bunch of wizards who are or who are
[TS]
00:16:52
◼
►
magical ecologists and their job is to
[TS]
00:16:55
◼
►
identify always different species of
[TS]
00:16:57
◼
►
dragons and keep them on a preserve and
[TS]
00:16:59
◼
►
monitor their well-being and make sure
[TS]
00:17:01
◼
►
that they're not being hunted to
[TS]
00:17:02
◼
►
extinction abuse and I thought that was
[TS]
00:17:03
◼
►
just a wonderful colorful detail on the
[TS]
00:17:05
◼
►
books that you know they don't learn
[TS]
00:17:08
◼
►
rigorous science at Hogwarts but they
[TS]
00:17:12
◼
►
certainly do practice a sort of ethology
[TS]
00:17:13
◼
►
ecology and I thought that was really
[TS]
00:17:16
◼
►
that's agree that's very funny I never
[TS]
00:17:18
◼
►
thought about the way it's true it's the
[TS]
00:17:19
◼
►
end what you contribute to the dragon
[TS]
00:17:21
◼
►
Restoration Fund only three galleons and
[TS]
00:17:23
◼
►
two signals will feed the dragon 45
[TS]
00:17:25
◼
►
minutes possibly disorder one of my
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
favorite um one of my favorite discworld
[TS]
00:17:31
◼
►
books is guards guards and it's the book
[TS]
00:17:33
◼
►
that introduces a character who arguably
[TS]
00:17:36
◼
►
has become the moral linchpin of the
[TS]
00:17:38
◼
►
discworld universe i'm talking about
[TS]
00:17:40
◼
►
terry pratchett discworld but in guards
[TS]
00:17:42
◼
►
guards what happens is somebody who
[TS]
00:17:44
◼
►
wants to take over as cities throne
[TS]
00:17:46
◼
►
summons a dragon from the dimensions
[TS]
00:17:47
◼
►
wizards and exiled them and naturally
[TS]
00:17:52
◼
►
the dragon then becomes the king of the
[TS]
00:17:53
◼
►
city but the citizen at the same time
[TS]
00:17:57
◼
►
there's also the won't you donate to the
[TS]
00:17:58
◼
►
dragon fun because
[TS]
00:18:00
◼
►
in the discworld society matrons instead
[TS]
00:18:03
◼
►
of breeding horses and dogs actually
[TS]
00:18:05
◼
►
breathe miniature dragons and they have
[TS]
00:18:09
◼
►
pedigrees for them in shows but the joke
[TS]
00:18:11
◼
►
is these dragons always blowing
[TS]
00:18:12
◼
►
themselves up because they're their body
[TS]
00:18:14
◼
►
chemistry is so volatile it every time
[TS]
00:18:16
◼
►
they try to set something on fire they
[TS]
00:18:17
◼
►
end up exploding oh dear the discworld
[TS]
00:18:20
◼
►
book is another one that points out
[TS]
00:18:22
◼
►
um you know that the kid that the idea
[TS]
00:18:26
◼
►
of dry dragons as part of a magical
[TS]
00:18:28
◼
►
ecology and the difference between you
[TS]
00:18:31
◼
►
know tiny pet miniature swamp dragons
[TS]
00:18:34
◼
►
and the real live magical I can take
[TS]
00:18:36
◼
►
over your mind and I happen to live in a
[TS]
00:18:38
◼
►
different dimension because I can't
[TS]
00:18:39
◼
►
stand humanity you know mythical beasts
[TS]
00:18:42
◼
►
dragons are always it's like a genie or
[TS]
00:18:45
◼
►
something i always only solutions
[TS]
00:18:47
◼
►
depending on the book but they're often
[TS]
00:18:48
◼
►
like only slightly under control and
[TS]
00:18:50
◼
►
they could in a moment you know p.m.
[TS]
00:18:51
◼
►
world-spanning destroying beast or at
[TS]
00:18:54
◼
►
least wipe out some cities all the stuff
[TS]
00:18:56
◼
►
that were talking about like we all seem
[TS]
00:18:58
◼
►
to be referencing stuff that was written
[TS]
00:18:59
◼
►
within a pretty specific period
[TS]
00:19:01
◼
►
um and I was wondering if if the dragons
[TS]
00:19:05
◼
►
moment has passed or dragons are or are
[TS]
00:19:07
◼
►
not trendy right now and if that's a
[TS]
00:19:09
◼
►
reflection of water pop culture or if
[TS]
00:19:12
◼
►
this is a reflection of the fact that
[TS]
00:19:15
◼
►
we're all out of our our teens
[TS]
00:19:18
◼
►
well I think too that mean there's two
[TS]
00:19:19
◼
►
popular series though I mean the
[TS]
00:19:21
◼
►
temporary series i don't think is not
[TS]
00:19:22
◼
►
like wild bestsellers I think they've
[TS]
00:19:24
◼
►
done well in the family she's written a
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
►
center seventh or eighth book now so
[TS]
00:19:27
◼
►
they have certainly done at least
[TS]
00:19:28
◼
►
reasonably well and the eragon series
[TS]
00:19:30
◼
►
which I have not read by christopher
[TS]
00:19:32
◼
►
paolini i think is a pressing the names
[TS]
00:19:34
◼
►
right and easy then he started like a
[TS]
00:19:37
◼
►
says 17 or something and yeah he was he
[TS]
00:19:40
◼
►
was 14 I think and I've read some of the
[TS]
00:19:42
◼
►
dialogue and it's sort of extra couple
[TS]
00:19:44
◼
►
but you know it's been sort of it's that
[TS]
00:19:46
◼
►
sort of genre but how many books is he
[TS]
00:19:48
◼
►
into four or five and it's come to the
[TS]
00:19:50
◼
►
conclusion of the of the arc so it may
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
►
be more I mean it's kind of costco thing
[TS]
00:19:53
◼
►
it's like you have a hundred different
[TS]
00:19:54
◼
►
dragon story is going on her to really
[TS]
00:19:56
◼
►
big ones but I feel like they've kind of
[TS]
00:19:59
◼
►
dropped out of consciousness they seem
[TS]
00:20:01
◼
►
to become a plot device opposed to a
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
driving force as much maybe in fantasy
[TS]
00:20:05
◼
►
and it's become more sophisticated a
[TS]
00:20:07
◼
►
magic is a big thing you read everything
[TS]
00:20:09
◼
►
you do with fantasy now has to develop
[TS]
00:20:11
◼
►
an entire we were just
[TS]
00:20:12
◼
►
but the magician's of a recent
[TS]
00:20:14
◼
►
uncomfortable so you know to book
[TS]
00:20:16
◼
►
universe there Harry Potter world is all
[TS]
00:20:19
◼
►
about these sort of intricacies of
[TS]
00:20:20
◼
►
spells interactions of spells and things
[TS]
00:20:22
◼
►
like that I wonder if that's if that's
[TS]
00:20:24
◼
►
sort of i'm walking as replace the big
[TS]
00:20:26
◼
►
giant rampaging Beast excision repair I
[TS]
00:20:34
◼
►
think you just want my mind glad I'm
[TS]
00:20:36
◼
►
trying I'm trying to think if there's
[TS]
00:20:37
◼
►
some sort of larger societal parallel
[TS]
00:20:39
◼
►
aware because we're heading into an
[TS]
00:20:40
◼
►
information society our fantasy is
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
beginning to reflect that bias similarly
[TS]
00:20:45
◼
►
uh you know it's like the same way
[TS]
00:20:48
◼
►
vampires should become protagonist they
[TS]
00:20:50
◼
►
were always you know the other yes I
[TS]
00:20:53
◼
►
mean it's no dragons are not becoming
[TS]
00:20:55
◼
►
buddies too funny
[TS]
00:20:57
◼
►
yeah I mean there's nothing of the movie
[TS]
00:20:59
◼
►
thing like their movies in which dragons
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
like even schrack you know what the
[TS]
00:21:03
◼
►
dragon is evil and 7600 you're a lady
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
dragon oh you're in love with a donkey
[TS]
00:21:09
◼
►
sweet pretty sweet that there was a big
[TS]
00:21:13
◼
►
surprise but do you know or the wasn't
[TS]
00:21:15
◼
►
how to tame a dragon
[TS]
00:21:17
◼
►
how to train your dragon yeah it was is
[TS]
00:21:20
◼
►
someone to motor Dragonheart i'm not i
[TS]
00:21:22
◼
►
can't think of all the movies that have
[TS]
00:21:23
◼
►
dragons and then we'll get the hobbit
[TS]
00:21:25
◼
►
coming up soon to the two-part Hobbit
[TS]
00:21:27
◼
►
will have small dragon was the dragon of
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
my channel done over everybody's I mean
[TS]
00:21:33
◼
►
it'sit's you can't make him nice
[TS]
00:21:36
◼
►
there's no way to make him nice and
[TS]
00:21:37
◼
►
cuddly no definitely not ya gonna bring
[TS]
00:21:40
◼
►
that know what's funny is an interesting
[TS]
00:21:43
◼
►
read Tolkien like I remember reading the
[TS]
00:21:45
◼
►
hop into the hobbit and you read Lord of
[TS]
00:21:47
◼
►
the Rings doesn't really have you got
[TS]
00:21:48
◼
►
the horrible creatures that the Black
[TS]
00:21:51
◼
►
Riders their beasts that are some kind
[TS]
00:21:52
◼
►
of evil stench Aryan thing but but the
[TS]
00:21:56
◼
►
the silmarillion has some drag incident
[TS]
00:21:59
◼
►
they do crazy things like hypnotize
[TS]
00:22:01
◼
►
people for the rest of their lives and
[TS]
00:22:02
◼
►
so forth with always occupying halls and
[TS]
00:22:04
◼
►
there's things like that that was always
[TS]
00:22:07
◼
►
think I never understood about fairy
[TS]
00:22:08
◼
►
tales was why would dragons want to do
[TS]
00:22:10
◼
►
something as mundane as occupy Castle
[TS]
00:22:12
◼
►
you're a dragon you have unlimited power
[TS]
00:22:13
◼
►
when they get out of hoarding all this
[TS]
00:22:17
◼
►
jewels and gold
[TS]
00:22:19
◼
►
I mean don't go shopping with it what I
[TS]
00:22:22
◼
►
do is it requested to ask you earlier
[TS]
00:22:23
◼
►
story is so do you have a drag
[TS]
00:22:25
◼
►
is there a dragon if affinity you have
[TS]
00:22:28
◼
►
some particular novel series that
[TS]
00:22:30
◼
►
affected you that you like to talk about
[TS]
00:22:33
◼
►
looking back
[TS]
00:22:35
◼
►
actually I never would have a dragon
[TS]
00:22:38
◼
►
phase as such was more like things i
[TS]
00:22:40
◼
►
like just happen to have dragons in and
[TS]
00:22:43
◼
►
a lot of things like just happen to have
[TS]
00:22:45
◼
►
dragons in them
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
oh maybe it's just that i read in
[TS]
00:22:48
◼
►
mccaffrey at exactly the right point in
[TS]
00:22:50
◼
►
my life
[TS]
00:22:51
◼
►
yeah when dragonsong & Dragons singer
[TS]
00:22:55
◼
►
you know and mentally her just hit me it
[TS]
00:22:58
◼
►
just the right point in high school and
[TS]
00:23:00
◼
►
middle school
[TS]
00:23:02
◼
►
oh ok how much troubled history today
[TS]
00:23:05
◼
►
and McCaffrey podcast I dreamed of
[TS]
00:23:07
◼
►
having only one had ever read her
[TS]
00:23:10
◼
►
together one of her novels when I was a
[TS]
00:23:12
◼
►
kid but it was but it was that girl
[TS]
00:23:14
◼
►
anything right a McCaffrey was something
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
that girls red and it was an acceptable
[TS]
00:23:17
◼
►
form of fantasy and i was reading sort
[TS]
00:23:19
◼
►
of Shannara which was something also
[TS]
00:23:20
◼
►
that girls on a red but it wasn't it was
[TS]
00:23:22
◼
►
like that was acceptable to go out the
[TS]
00:23:24
◼
►
sword book and the girls had the dragon
[TS]
00:23:25
◼
►
book and feel like there's used to be a
[TS]
00:23:27
◼
►
split like that partly the portrayal of
[TS]
00:23:29
◼
►
dragons to was like no boy these days
[TS]
00:23:32
◼
►
going to go around reading Twilight she
[TS]
00:23:34
◼
►
said yeah I'm sure there are some but
[TS]
00:23:37
◼
►
yeah that's right now the region and
[TS]
00:23:38
◼
►
also sure he's too sensitive caring
[TS]
00:23:41
◼
►
sensitive caring vampires isn't there
[TS]
00:23:43
◼
►
it's either conventional wisdom were
[TS]
00:23:44
◼
►
published studies that point out the
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
girls are much more willing to read
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
books with male protagonists boys
[TS]
00:23:50
◼
►
typically do not pick up books with
[TS]
00:23:52
◼
►
female protagonists right and with the
[TS]
00:23:54
◼
►
McCaffrey ye novels that lead into the
[TS]
00:23:57
◼
►
driveway leading to Pern that's
[TS]
00:23:58
◼
►
dragonsong dragon senior dragon drums
[TS]
00:24:01
◼
►
for the first to the protagonist is
[TS]
00:24:03
◼
►
always a young woman is trying to break
[TS]
00:24:05
◼
►
into a male-oriented profession so
[TS]
00:24:07
◼
►
that's not going to provide an entryway
[TS]
00:24:08
◼
►
for young men and then with the adult
[TS]
00:24:12
◼
►
fare which is dragonflight and then the
[TS]
00:24:15
◼
►
empty million dragon tales that came
[TS]
00:24:17
◼
►
after it again these inverse to UM that
[TS]
00:24:20
◼
►
much of the action centers around women
[TS]
00:24:23
◼
►
who are writing gold dragons and again
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
i'm sure guys read those because if you
[TS]
00:24:27
◼
►
go through / fan forums there are plenty
[TS]
00:24:31
◼
►
of guys who are weighing in on the stuff
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
but I do wonder if you're 14 year old
[TS]
00:24:34
◼
►
boy or like why don't care about some
[TS]
00:24:36
◼
►
broad riding a dragon
[TS]
00:24:38
◼
►
now there's some other stuff that you
[TS]
00:24:39
◼
►
want to read and she hot
[TS]
00:24:43
◼
►
she says she said her some more vampire
[TS]
00:24:46
◼
►
yeah and I knew it's a yeah it's um you
[TS]
00:24:51
◼
►
know so I want everything to be like the
[TS]
00:24:52
◼
►
dragon unicom unicorn paradox which is
[TS]
00:24:56
◼
►
you know unicorns of course to attract
[TS]
00:24:58
◼
►
unicorn i was talking about somebody
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
recently and I said you know how to
[TS]
00:25:01
◼
►
attract unicorn and they said no and I
[TS]
00:25:02
◼
►
said well I understand mythology right
[TS]
00:25:04
◼
►
near the young female version no one
[TS]
00:25:07
◼
►
else maybe what I need a virgin universe
[TS]
00:25:09
◼
►
doesn't even know if he wasn't female
[TS]
00:25:11
◼
►
virtually championship assumed i guess
[TS]
00:25:13
◼
►
you could be you could be an ancient
[TS]
00:25:15
◼
►
male or female version 2 is true but
[TS]
00:25:18
◼
►
there's that sort of you know the
[TS]
00:25:19
◼
►
virginal purity and you have to have the
[TS]
00:25:21
◼
►
woman you know there's that scene if you
[TS]
00:25:23
◼
►
remember in the mortadella Arthur but
[TS]
00:25:26
◼
►
add what's the the Arthur or 30 and
[TS]
00:25:29
◼
►
retelling once and future king is it I
[TS]
00:25:31
◼
►
well remember that terrible everyone
[TS]
00:25:35
◼
►
goes all you have to describe i'll
[TS]
00:25:36
◼
►
describe four meters bring in brief
[TS]
00:25:39
◼
►
terms but the kids from the Orkneys
[TS]
00:25:42
◼
►
including Arthur's to the Sun bastard
[TS]
00:25:46
◼
►
son they go off hunting a unicorn and
[TS]
00:25:49
◼
►
they sort of what they capture young
[TS]
00:25:51
◼
►
woman they tired of the trees they can
[TS]
00:25:52
◼
►
attract unicorn and then they kill it if
[TS]
00:25:55
◼
►
you bring its head back to their mother
[TS]
00:25:57
◼
►
is Morgan favorite is the mother in that
[TS]
00:25:59
◼
►
orgasm from mother
[TS]
00:26:01
◼
►
alright yeah yeah and they wanted to
[TS]
00:26:03
◼
►
impress her and she's of course
[TS]
00:26:05
◼
►
horrified I mean she's evil herself but
[TS]
00:26:07
◼
►
is more fighting this and is that always
[TS]
00:26:09
◼
►
that notion of you kill a unicorn it's
[TS]
00:26:10
◼
►
and harry potter of course it's
[TS]
00:26:12
◼
►
everywhere else you're taking some kind
[TS]
00:26:14
◼
►
of purity and beauty of the world nobody
[TS]
00:26:16
◼
►
thinks that way about dragons accepted
[TS]
00:26:18
◼
►
the discworld the whole way that started
[TS]
00:26:19
◼
►
up in once and future king was that more
[TS]
00:26:24
◼
►
gals going out with night from the court
[TS]
00:26:28
◼
►
and she was portraying the virgin and
[TS]
00:26:30
◼
►
you know what you're supposed to be
[TS]
00:26:33
◼
►
hinting at you know
[TS]
00:26:34
◼
►
well of course they're not catching
[TS]
00:26:35
◼
►
anything yes well she's got four sons
[TS]
00:26:42
◼
►
but the kids see this and they think oh
[TS]
00:26:44
◼
►
mom must really want a unicorn right and
[TS]
00:26:49
◼
►
they think they're doing something for
[TS]
00:26:51
◼
►
mom it's kind of heartbreaking it i was
[TS]
00:26:54
◼
►
about to say that the the relationship
[TS]
00:26:56
◼
►
between orgasms her son's is one of the
[TS]
00:26:57
◼
►
most heartbreaking things you're reading
[TS]
00:26:58
◼
►
a book let's follow him
[TS]
00:27:00
◼
►
I mean th weight pulls no punches when
[TS]
00:27:02
◼
►
he shows how toxic or absent love from a
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
parent can really really warm a child
[TS]
00:27:08
◼
►
for life and the people who do it
[TS]
00:27:09
◼
►
deliberately to their children are
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
monsters
[TS]
00:27:11
◼
►
it's yes it's angry and heartbreaking
[TS]
00:27:15
◼
►
that's right the dysfunctional family
[TS]
00:27:16
◼
►
told in Arthurian legend it's pretty
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
there's a good recommendation is a good
[TS]
00:27:20
◼
►
recognition for an uplifting novel
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
though it's great but it's fun it's
[TS]
00:27:23
◼
►
perfect best casting margarita broadcast
[TS]
00:27:25
◼
►
1i in on that one I can talk about are
[TS]
00:27:28
◼
►
three-inch never will get it will get
[TS]
00:27:30
◼
►
you back for r 3 and r 3 legends coming
[TS]
00:27:32
◼
►
soon I'm comfortable here is enough the
[TS]
00:27:35
◼
►
others a million things to talk about
[TS]
00:27:37
◼
►
Excalibur the movie but the but the
[TS]
00:27:38
◼
►
unicorn think so that you know unicorns
[TS]
00:27:40
◼
►
are always supposed to be pure and I
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
always thought that was kind of this
[TS]
00:27:43
◼
►
funny thing because you have the again
[TS]
00:27:45
◼
►
you know whether it's a female or girl
[TS]
00:27:47
◼
►
thing that the interest in dragons are
[TS]
00:27:49
◼
►
the Spanish novels with dragons in
[TS]
00:27:51
◼
►
sci-fi novels with dragons and the
[TS]
00:27:53
◼
►
unicorn we don't get novels written
[TS]
00:27:55
◼
►
about you ? coins are boring it's sort
[TS]
00:27:57
◼
►
of like heaven as an afterlife sorry
[TS]
00:27:59
◼
►
I've got the harp and the wings now what
[TS]
00:28:01
◼
►
am I supposed to be doing your are
[TS]
00:28:02
◼
►
living in perfect bliss is right and
[TS]
00:28:04
◼
►
that's for that say yes something like
[TS]
00:28:05
◼
►
okay I got you record and i have i have
[TS]
00:28:08
◼
►
a slight it's funny you mention that
[TS]
00:28:10
◼
►
though because one of the things I did
[TS]
00:28:11
◼
►
stick in RR pre-show notes in Gabrielle
[TS]
00:28:15
◼
►
case for his fantasy epic the field of
[TS]
00:28:16
◼
►
our tapestry which is made up of three
[TS]
00:28:18
◼
►
separate novels on the longest road the
[TS]
00:28:21
◼
►
wandering fire and the summer tree and I
[TS]
00:28:24
◼
►
just name them in reverse order by the
[TS]
00:28:26
◼
►
way I'm anyway there are two instances
[TS]
00:28:30
◼
►
of dragons in that series and the first
[TS]
00:28:33
◼
►
is a dragon that was read by the forces
[TS]
00:28:36
◼
►
of darkness and has been biding its time
[TS]
00:28:38
◼
►
for thousands of years and is just
[TS]
00:28:41
◼
►
basically mindless killing machine and
[TS]
00:28:43
◼
►
then there's a second dragon and it's a
[TS]
00:28:45
◼
►
dragon that's definitely made of crystal
[TS]
00:28:47
◼
►
but the thing is um it is apparently the
[TS]
00:28:50
◼
►
foundational force for a doorman
[TS]
00:28:51
◼
►
civilization this this this civilization
[TS]
00:28:54
◼
►
of doors evolved to serve
[TS]
00:28:55
◼
►
the dragon into worship her in a weird
[TS]
00:28:58
◼
►
kind of Episcopalian way where they just
[TS]
00:29:00
◼
►
have really nice public spaces and they
[TS]
00:29:03
◼
►
make statues and then just go about
[TS]
00:29:04
◼
►
their daughters business but this
[TS]
00:29:06
◼
►
dragons obviously supposed to represent
[TS]
00:29:07
◼
►
some sort of civilizing force and over
[TS]
00:29:11
◼
►
the course of the massive three-book war
[TS]
00:29:13
◼
►
it's evident that the two dragons are
[TS]
00:29:15
◼
►
supposed to be headed for a showdown
[TS]
00:29:17
◼
►
but what happens instead is some young
[TS]
00:29:19
◼
►
upstart takes his unicorn uses it to
[TS]
00:29:21
◼
►
kill a dragon instead so the world and
[TS]
00:29:24
◼
►
themes colliding also its a spoiler horn
[TS]
00:29:28
◼
►
but the series is like 30 years old so
[TS]
00:29:30
◼
►
you deserve to be spoiled if you haven't
[TS]
00:29:32
◼
►
read it but but if it was it was
[TS]
00:29:37
◼
►
interesting because they use the unicorn
[TS]
00:29:38
◼
►
in a purely Marshall sense throughout
[TS]
00:29:40
◼
►
that entire series where the unicorn
[TS]
00:29:43
◼
►
descends from whatever divine plan
[TS]
00:29:45
◼
►
happens to have lift on it bonds with
[TS]
00:29:49
◼
►
this one young boy and all they do is go
[TS]
00:29:52
◼
►
and kill things I mean he writes that
[TS]
00:29:54
◼
►
Unicorn to battle the Unicorn is
[TS]
00:29:56
◼
►
basically a living sword he kills things
[TS]
00:29:58
◼
►
and that he comes home wipes off the
[TS]
00:29:59
◼
►
blood hangs with the uniform until the
[TS]
00:30:01
◼
►
next battle my god
[TS]
00:30:03
◼
►
ya know horrible and we that is in this
[TS]
00:30:05
◼
►
but it's all absolutely recommend that
[TS]
00:30:07
◼
►
the fan of our tapestry it is i think i
[TS]
00:30:10
◼
►
did i put in like the new the new canon
[TS]
00:30:12
◼
►
Tom it's one of the two it's one of two
[TS]
00:30:15
◼
►
badass unicorns in fantasy literature
[TS]
00:30:16
◼
►
and it won't be gaudy or from metal
[TS]
00:30:19
◼
►
angles so Marie O'Keefe books I think
[TS]
00:30:22
◼
►
gaudy or shows up in a swiftly tilting
[TS]
00:30:27
◼
►
planet which is the third of the books
[TS]
00:30:29
◼
►
about meg and Charles Wallace and I'm
[TS]
00:30:32
◼
►
going off of memory here because i
[TS]
00:30:34
◼
►
haven't read this book site remember the
[TS]
00:30:35
◼
►
other ways he stern as opposed to evil
[TS]
00:30:38
◼
►
right is nice but he's a badass i mean
[TS]
00:30:41
◼
►
yeah he does he is not break any
[TS]
00:30:43
◼
►
nonsense whatsoever and there is a scene
[TS]
00:30:47
◼
►
where is the birth of a unicorn but
[TS]
00:30:48
◼
►
basically Madeleine L'Engle on her whole
[TS]
00:30:50
◼
►
thing with the importances their
[TS]
00:30:52
◼
►
otherworldly and they symbolize justice
[TS]
00:30:55
◼
►
and the fearlessness and the pitiless
[TS]
00:30:59
◼
►
required to uphold higher ideal
[TS]
00:31:01
◼
►
sometimes right and again it's a very
[TS]
00:31:04
◼
►
militant almost warrior like unicorn
[TS]
00:31:06
◼
►
compared to how it's lovely
[TS]
00:31:08
◼
►
that's attracted to young women who
[TS]
00:31:09
◼
►
would mysteriously have never had a
[TS]
00:31:11
◼
►
boyfriend and you know what's going
[TS]
00:31:14
◼
►
another one which is Diana
[TS]
00:31:15
◼
►
professionalizing Peter friend who the
[TS]
00:31:18
◼
►
killer unicorn university i started
[TS]
00:31:20
◼
►
reading one like a short story about
[TS]
00:31:22
◼
►
where the unicorns are all deadly and
[TS]
00:31:25
◼
►
hunted and they have been up in their
[TS]
00:31:26
◼
►
fangs and they like to kill people and
[TS]
00:31:28
◼
►
there are telepathic people who are
[TS]
00:31:30
◼
►
bonded to unicorns and it's the sort of
[TS]
00:31:33
◼
►
hilarious i thought it was like a joke
[TS]
00:31:34
◼
►
story because it seems so absurd but I
[TS]
00:31:37
◼
►
think she now has I'm understand for
[TS]
00:31:39
◼
►
website but she has for such as two
[TS]
00:31:42
◼
►
books out but there's some other stuff
[TS]
00:31:43
◼
►
coming out looks like as well as two
[TS]
00:31:45
◼
►
short works into a long work so i must
[TS]
00:31:49
◼
►
read this now i think i think killer
[TS]
00:31:51
◼
►
unit mornings are the new like the new
[TS]
00:31:53
◼
►
dragons
[TS]
00:31:53
◼
►
look we have met the dragon they are now
[TS]
00:31:56
◼
►
do they fly that's always the question
[TS]
00:31:57
◼
►
you request you know some unicorns are
[TS]
00:31:59
◼
►
also winged horses as it's not me some
[TS]
00:32:01
◼
►
pic it was a pickled pigs and record all
[TS]
00:32:03
◼
►
right that's what they are
[TS]
00:32:04
◼
►
that's weird out of the title of the
[TS]
00:32:06
◼
►
episode the pegacorn sorry you've been
[TS]
00:32:08
◼
►
so quiet have we have we just gibberish
[TS]
00:32:09
◼
►
average you out of existence i have to
[TS]
00:32:11
◼
►
mean I've been very quiet because i
[TS]
00:32:13
◼
►
haven't read any of the things you you
[TS]
00:32:15
◼
►
are discussing and I my one unicorn book
[TS]
00:32:18
◼
►
in front of his is a brusque ovals
[TS]
00:32:20
◼
►
influence the unicorns which is a young
[TS]
00:32:22
◼
►
adult novel you might remember bruce
[TS]
00:32:24
◼
►
coville from my teacher is an alien same
[TS]
00:32:28
◼
►
no no I don't know I don't always work
[TS]
00:32:31
◼
►
what's so hat is so as fantasy or so
[TS]
00:32:34
◼
►
this is both an alias you definitely it
[TS]
00:32:37
◼
►
so definitely definitely sort of fat
[TS]
00:32:39
◼
►
young adult fantasy sci fi am so anyway
[TS]
00:32:41
◼
►
in Atlanta horns is actually kind of
[TS]
00:32:43
◼
►
that almost a dark fantasy of unicorns
[TS]
00:32:45
◼
►
we're gonna be no there's some good
[TS]
00:32:48
◼
►
unicorns therapist and bad unicorns but
[TS]
00:32:50
◼
►
it's it's kind of fascinating because
[TS]
00:32:53
◼
►
young girl gets pulled into the length
[TS]
00:32:55
◼
►
unicorns and she has to defeat the bad
[TS]
00:32:57
◼
►
unicorns with the help of the good
[TS]
00:32:59
◼
►
unicorns and isn't very dark for for an
[TS]
00:33:02
◼
►
apple for 12 year old but it lasts
[TS]
00:33:07
◼
►
unicorns are not quite the subject of
[TS]
00:33:09
◼
►
this podcast so well it's funny I think
[TS]
00:33:11
◼
►
we have the unicorn dragon dialectic
[TS]
00:33:13
◼
►
aerate the the battlements we are the
[TS]
00:33:15
◼
►
first it's the battle between the forces
[TS]
00:33:18
◼
►
but even that's I think that's what it
[TS]
00:33:20
◼
►
comes down to for me is
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
I've been trying to figure out this is
[TS]
00:33:23
◼
►
we started talking with the podcast
[TS]
00:33:24
◼
►
while ago is is you know it is it plays
[TS]
00:33:27
◼
►
a convenient plot device you know we
[TS]
00:33:29
◼
►
talked about it being a maybe an
[TS]
00:33:31
◼
►
archetype temple thing that's deeply
[TS]
00:33:33
◼
►
rooted in our brains for some reason you
[TS]
00:33:36
◼
►
know unicorns also seem to be all over
[TS]
00:33:38
◼
►
the place and they're in across there's
[TS]
00:33:40
◼
►
sort of a common trope to and if dragons
[TS]
00:33:43
◼
►
disappeared we get more unicorns they
[TS]
00:33:45
◼
►
start populating the universe more I
[TS]
00:33:47
◼
►
don't know maybe goes it with the whole
[TS]
00:33:49
◼
►
big information society type of thing
[TS]
00:33:51
◼
►
where there's no longer huge frontiers
[TS]
00:33:54
◼
►
to team with big myth with big dangerous
[TS]
00:33:56
◼
►
animals that could kill you and we've
[TS]
00:33:58
◼
►
now got to the point where we're trying
[TS]
00:34:00
◼
►
to coexist with the species that are
[TS]
00:34:02
◼
►
still left in a highly regulated world
[TS]
00:34:05
◼
►
I mean you think about we we we live in
[TS]
00:34:07
◼
►
a world where TV show is just shut down
[TS]
00:34:09
◼
►
because three brace horses were died
[TS]
00:34:11
◼
►
during the filming of the episode of
[TS]
00:34:12
◼
►
business
[TS]
00:34:13
◼
►
what was that it was luck which
[TS]
00:34:17
◼
►
intensely pedigreed show on HBO i'm in
[TS]
00:34:20
◼
►
Dustin Hoffman was in it and it had a
[TS]
00:34:22
◼
►
great cast and David melt was behind it
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
is generally top of the field but
[TS]
00:34:27
◼
►
because it was a show about horses at a
[TS]
00:34:28
◼
►
racetrack
[TS]
00:34:29
◼
►
I'm over the course of filming the 13
[TS]
00:34:31
◼
►
episodes that will make up the series
[TS]
00:34:33
◼
►
three different horses had to be put
[TS]
00:34:35
◼
►
no dear and it's raised a lot of well
[TS]
00:34:38
◼
►
it's it's raised questions that people
[TS]
00:34:39
◼
►
have been asking for years about the
[TS]
00:34:43
◼
►
moral and ethical obligations of using
[TS]
00:34:45
◼
►
animals for entertainment and you know
[TS]
00:34:48
◼
►
as a society first-world Westerners are
[TS]
00:34:51
◼
►
kind of moving into a new phase of our
[TS]
00:34:53
◼
►
relationship with animals we no longer
[TS]
00:34:55
◼
►
regard them as beasts of burden and as
[TS]
00:34:58
◼
►
and as food and as a commodity to be
[TS]
00:35:02
◼
►
bred and used as we please where we are
[TS]
00:35:05
◼
►
now beginning to get to the point were
[TS]
00:35:07
◼
►
actively concerned about the emotional
[TS]
00:35:08
◼
►
lives of animals and their living
[TS]
00:35:09
◼
►
conditions and what our moral
[TS]
00:35:11
◼
►
responsibility to two other two other
[TS]
00:35:16
◼
►
you know living systems on this planet
[TS]
00:35:18
◼
►
are and so maybe fantasy is beginning to
[TS]
00:35:21
◼
►
reflect that because we're going from
[TS]
00:35:22
◼
►
less of a how can i use and exert my
[TS]
00:35:24
◼
►
dominion over this uncomfortable force
[TS]
00:35:26
◼
►
into how do i maintain my status is a
[TS]
00:35:31
◼
►
moral or ethical being while working
[TS]
00:35:33
◼
►
with completely different species
[TS]
00:35:35
◼
►
you see reflected a lot of different
[TS]
00:35:39
◼
►
ways i think too i mean that's
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
interesting you bring that up in
[TS]
00:35:42
◼
►
relationship to I mean there's there's
[TS]
00:35:44
◼
►
the older areas of both fantasy and
[TS]
00:35:47
◼
►
science fiction which were not just
[TS]
00:35:49
◼
►
male-dominated it was these great you
[TS]
00:35:50
◼
►
know empires and things crashing to the
[TS]
00:35:53
◼
►
ground and huge forces and everything
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
had to be subject to the will of the
[TS]
00:35:58
◼
►
whatever the wizard or the king and so
[TS]
00:36:01
◼
►
forth and forces arrayed and then as
[TS]
00:36:03
◼
►
things become more and more morally
[TS]
00:36:05
◼
►
ambiguous like well you know we own this
[TS]
00:36:07
◼
►
dragons like to really own the dragon
[TS]
00:36:09
◼
►
and you everyone a dragon maybe the
[TS]
00:36:11
◼
►
dragon is leasing itself to you and its
[TS]
00:36:12
◼
►
really got its own power and his dragons
[TS]
00:36:15
◼
►
that's what I would be actually very
[TS]
00:36:17
◼
►
curious to see when all these books are
[TS]
00:36:19
◼
►
written and then like what exactly the
[TS]
00:36:21
◼
►
relationship that the dragon is with the
[TS]
00:36:22
◼
►
human part is if any will leave the
[TS]
00:36:27
◼
►
reader there's a reader reader exercise
[TS]
00:36:29
◼
►
would you please restart the areas but
[TS]
00:36:31
◼
►
yeah it's a big money it's also i think
[TS]
00:36:34
◼
►
i'm trying to think back historically
[TS]
00:36:36
◼
►
you know even like reading for the 19th
[TS]
00:36:39
◼
►
century I know that fantasy is not a
[TS]
00:36:41
◼
►
monitor John response fiction is of
[TS]
00:36:43
◼
►
course you know at least you have to go
[TS]
00:36:45
◼
►
back to the eighteen eighties or
[TS]
00:36:46
◼
►
something but I'm a the job of the the
[TS]
00:36:49
◼
►
idea of having fantastical animals in
[TS]
00:36:52
◼
►
books isn't new but they're used very
[TS]
00:36:54
◼
►
allegorically and I can't think of
[TS]
00:36:56
◼
►
examples before the 20th century in
[TS]
00:36:58
◼
►
which you would have you know these
[TS]
00:37:00
◼
►
giant beasts maybe it was partly because
[TS]
00:37:02
◼
►
we didn't believe that anything that big
[TS]
00:37:03
◼
►
existed you know in the Western in
[TS]
00:37:06
◼
►
Western literature at least that we
[TS]
00:37:07
◼
►
didn't have experience with you know
[TS]
00:37:09
◼
►
elephants and we went to Africa or will
[TS]
00:37:11
◼
►
be reports back that sounded ridiculous
[TS]
00:37:12
◼
►
or fighting skeletons of dinosaurs
[TS]
00:37:15
◼
►
things like that the bones of dinosaurs
[TS]
00:37:16
◼
►
that it was just beyond the scope of we
[TS]
00:37:19
◼
►
can encompass so it's sort of a modern
[TS]
00:37:21
◼
►
phenomenon even think about stuff that's
[TS]
00:37:23
◼
►
that big now bear in mind i know my not
[TS]
00:37:27
◼
►
my I have no survey knowledge of
[TS]
00:37:29
◼
►
literature in the 15th to 18th centuries
[TS]
00:37:32
◼
►
um Big Apple the education but from what
[TS]
00:37:36
◼
►
I can recall of history of up from my
[TS]
00:37:40
◼
►
history lessons in school one of the
[TS]
00:37:42
◼
►
predominant themes of Correspondence
[TS]
00:37:45
◼
►
when people colonize the new worlds was
[TS]
00:37:47
◼
►
they go fishing
[TS]
00:37:48
◼
►
and then see a sturgeon that was easily
[TS]
00:37:50
◼
►
you know 12 feet long or they go into
[TS]
00:37:54
◼
►
the woods and run across bears or deer
[TS]
00:37:56
◼
►
that were larger than anything that ever
[TS]
00:37:58
◼
►
encountered in Europe so so from about
[TS]
00:38:01
◼
►
the fifteen sixteen hundreds we've had
[TS]
00:38:03
◼
►
people who have sponges really vivid
[TS]
00:38:06
◼
►
correspondences of I've come to this
[TS]
00:38:08
◼
►
brave new world where there are monsters
[TS]
00:38:10
◼
►
of tremendous sighs um you know they're
[TS]
00:38:14
◼
►
there is an experience i don't know that
[TS]
00:38:15
◼
►
i have that would be reflected in
[TS]
00:38:16
◼
►
whatever the fictional traditions of the
[TS]
00:38:19
◼
►
time would be or if that would even be a
[TS]
00:38:21
◼
►
factor or if this was for it would just
[TS]
00:38:23
◼
►
be something that would be transmitted
[TS]
00:38:25
◼
►
through through folktales or popular
[TS]
00:38:27
◼
►
accounts something to keep in mind there
[TS]
00:38:29
◼
►
is whole you know the one that got away
[TS]
00:38:33
◼
►
uh oh you should have seen the fish it
[TS]
00:38:36
◼
►
was this is big
[TS]
00:38:37
◼
►
people tend to remember this is bo
[TS]
00:38:40
◼
►
bigger house you know bigger than a
[TS]
00:38:43
◼
►
casual bigger than there's also a they
[TS]
00:38:46
◼
►
did this go back as far as I think at
[TS]
00:38:47
◼
►
least the 12th century of Marco Polo and
[TS]
00:38:49
◼
►
then he was he was describing unicorns
[TS]
00:38:52
◼
►
but he was actually describing like when
[TS]
00:38:53
◼
►
Officer I think that's right that's like
[TS]
00:38:56
◼
►
the the manatees being mistaken for her
[TS]
00:38:59
◼
►
mates because he's perfect those were
[TS]
00:39:02
◼
►
some lonely since then and I think even
[TS]
00:39:05
◼
►
goes back rather than that there and
[TS]
00:39:07
◼
►
soon i remember there being a camera
[TS]
00:39:09
◼
►
name but there's this Greek a traveler
[TS]
00:39:11
◼
►
who travels in released and then found
[TS]
00:39:13
◼
►
him fantastic piece i would have to go
[TS]
00:39:15
◼
►
looking up again but Jason and the
[TS]
00:39:17
◼
►
Argonauts uh did that's a myth all
[TS]
00:39:19
◼
►
centered on its own
[TS]
00:39:21
◼
►
oh I was talking about his historical I
[TS]
00:39:24
◼
►
know you mean around and come together
[TS]
00:39:26
◼
►
was a facilities but it was um yeah
[TS]
00:39:29
◼
►
right because he brought yeah his
[TS]
00:39:31
◼
►
reports were a mix of like complete
[TS]
00:39:32
◼
►
fiction and and historical accuracy
[TS]
00:39:34
◼
►
right so that yeah people took them
[TS]
00:39:36
◼
►
hundreds years to figure out what it
[TS]
00:39:37
◼
►
actually was actually real elsewhere in
[TS]
00:39:39
◼
►
the world
[TS]
00:39:40
◼
►
yeah exactly i so i think we definitely
[TS]
00:39:42
◼
►
like have these stories where people
[TS]
00:39:45
◼
►
were had this story where they would
[TS]
00:39:50
◼
►
just say like oh my god I went to this
[TS]
00:39:52
◼
►
place and I saw these big things like
[TS]
00:39:54
◼
►
you will not believe the things I saw
[TS]
00:39:57
◼
►
and and what's really interesting about
[TS]
00:39:59
◼
►
these books the books that we've listed
[TS]
00:40:01
◼
►
here the more modern ones that people
[TS]
00:40:03
◼
►
are they're not really like oh no not
[TS]
00:40:06
◼
►
you won't believe what I saw anymore
[TS]
00:40:08
◼
►
they're all like oh well we've now
[TS]
00:40:10
◼
►
created this world you know you do is
[TS]
00:40:11
◼
►
we're going to try and make it
[TS]
00:40:12
◼
►
believable as possible
[TS]
00:40:15
◼
►
that's funny so we really so we've come
[TS]
00:40:17
◼
►
to this so i think our panel conclusion
[TS]
00:40:19
◼
►
is that a is that the more of the world
[TS]
00:40:22
◼
►
that we know the lesser is to explore
[TS]
00:40:23
◼
►
the more these things that are sort of
[TS]
00:40:25
◼
►
outside like dragons or improbable like
[TS]
00:40:28
◼
►
an acquaintance they've been pushed out
[TS]
00:40:30
◼
►
it is an ecological problems notice
[TS]
00:40:32
◼
►
there's no niche left for them in our
[TS]
00:40:33
◼
►
fantasy month so all we posit this then
[TS]
00:40:35
◼
►
so is the alien series of movies are
[TS]
00:40:38
◼
►
those the Dragons of outer space
[TS]
00:40:40
◼
►
you know their their scaly they're
[TS]
00:40:42
◼
►
freaky they breathe fire in the form of
[TS]
00:40:44
◼
►
acid they kill people are arguing is
[TS]
00:40:46
◼
►
that was that we had to push them with
[TS]
00:40:48
◼
►
exiled in the outer space
[TS]
00:40:49
◼
►
definitely definitely and they're such I
[TS]
00:40:53
◼
►
think I don't know that I agree i think
[TS]
00:40:56
◼
►
it's more just you know generic bad guy
[TS]
00:40:59
◼
►
how do you make something that's scary
[TS]
00:41:01
◼
►
well the saurian species as always it's
[TS]
00:41:03
◼
►
always lizard people right we're always
[TS]
00:41:05
◼
►
freaked out about lizard people in outer
[TS]
00:41:06
◼
►
space and the insect people definitely
[TS]
00:41:09
◼
►
to the whole yet that's you know that's
[TS]
00:41:11
◼
►
a subject for the podcast always want to
[TS]
00:41:13
◼
►
talk about the great writer James T at
[TS]
00:41:16
◼
►
Tiptree jr. Alice Sheldon we will do a
[TS]
00:41:19
◼
►
podcast I'm trying to some enough people
[TS]
00:41:21
◼
►
to read her because she's so if you read
[TS]
00:41:24
◼
►
James Tiptree too much your soul dies a
[TS]
00:41:26
◼
►
little bit even as it flies in the air
[TS]
00:41:28
◼
►
its people must read her biography it's
[TS]
00:41:31
◼
►
a marvelous she's a kick crazy but she
[TS]
00:41:33
◼
►
is she is these novels these insect
[TS]
00:41:35
◼
►
characters who are always being preyed
[TS]
00:41:37
◼
►
upon because they're been tortured their
[TS]
00:41:40
◼
►
tears are producing alcohol finer than
[TS]
00:41:43
◼
►
any substance in the universe perfect
[TS]
00:41:45
◼
►
tiptree but we are sort of freaked out
[TS]
00:41:48
◼
►
about insects but I think about saurian
[TS]
00:41:50
◼
►
species and star trek with the skirt
[TS]
00:41:54
◼
►
coming to make his makeshift weapon to
[TS]
00:41:55
◼
►
kill the poor the disabled the lizard
[TS]
00:41:58
◼
►
creature and it is in the original
[TS]
00:42:00
◼
►
series of V there's that mean that
[TS]
00:42:03
◼
►
people have this whole thing
[TS]
00:42:05
◼
►
crazy people believe that lizards have
[TS]
00:42:06
◼
►
invaded our planet
[TS]
00:42:08
◼
►
run it and it's like this really
[TS]
00:42:09
◼
►
widespread me it's sort of the
[TS]
00:42:11
◼
►
terrifying how many people have a this
[TS]
00:42:13
◼
►
lizard person thing going on so I wonder
[TS]
00:42:16
◼
►
if that's part of the two you know
[TS]
00:42:17
◼
►
lizards dragons you know that there's a
[TS]
00:42:19
◼
►
there's there's a series I'm about what
[TS]
00:42:23
◼
►
would have happened if the dinosaurs
[TS]
00:42:23
◼
►
hadn't died off and had instead involved
[TS]
00:42:26
◼
►
up commented analog and it is killing me
[TS]
00:42:30
◼
►
not for the series because basically the
[TS]
00:42:32
◼
►
whole thing comes down to that lately
[TS]
00:42:34
◼
►
and it's is a no-no not Dinotopia that's
[TS]
00:42:39
◼
►
the get the kids version i think i saw
[TS]
00:42:41
◼
►
that movie the Fantastic them being
[TS]
00:42:43
◼
►
either leave done interviews like holy
[TS]
00:42:44
◼
►
cats dinosaurs thanks crystal exist this
[TS]
00:42:46
◼
►
was holy cats
[TS]
00:42:47
◼
►
we have humans human-like by bipedal
[TS]
00:42:51
◼
►
animals that are little blooded and
[TS]
00:42:53
◼
►
smarter than we are
[TS]
00:42:54
◼
►
oh IC totally different series i hope
[TS]
00:42:56
◼
►
you all saw the recent paper that was
[TS]
00:42:58
◼
►
talking about the wasn't about camera it
[TS]
00:43:01
◼
►
was about issue of handedness in
[TS]
00:43:04
◼
►
chemical structures found in meteorites
[TS]
00:43:06
◼
►
and the relationship to life on the
[TS]
00:43:07
◼
►
planet and it finished with the line
[TS]
00:43:09
◼
►
which I hope you also i wish with a line
[TS]
00:43:11
◼
►
that was if this happened the same and
[TS]
00:43:14
◼
►
other planets as possible there are
[TS]
00:43:15
◼
►
super-intelligent dinosaurs out there
[TS]
00:43:16
◼
►
and we should beware of them and i'm not
[TS]
00:43:17
◼
►
kidding this is peer-reviewed paper and
[TS]
00:43:20
◼
►
that was the last long after all this
[TS]
00:43:22
◼
►
destruction of august time the consensus
[TS]
00:43:27
◼
►
of the scientific community that is if
[TS]
00:43:28
◼
►
there's life out there and it's going to
[TS]
00:43:30
◼
►
get to us we should be very afraid
[TS]
00:43:32
◼
►
I think so i think there's we have it
[TS]
00:43:35
◼
►
considers Drake's equation and that's
[TS]
00:43:38
◼
►
like a very like pine skies for the
[TS]
00:43:40
◼
►
equation where you know there's probably
[TS]
00:43:42
◼
►
life out there but the length of their
[TS]
00:43:44
◼
►
civilization and how long they exist and
[TS]
00:43:47
◼
►
you know the level of their technology
[TS]
00:43:48
◼
►
is such that we're probably never going
[TS]
00:43:50
◼
►
to see them
[TS]
00:43:51
◼
►
yeah that's right you have to be the
[TS]
00:43:52
◼
►
sweet spot where you actually you're
[TS]
00:43:53
◼
►
still alive and they're still alive when
[TS]
00:43:55
◼
►
they get right yeah exactly like you
[TS]
00:43:57
◼
►
know what you need
[TS]
00:43:58
◼
►
they have to prevent themselves from
[TS]
00:43:59
◼
►
blowing themselves up and you know via
[TS]
00:44:01
◼
►
nuclear you know devastation or
[TS]
00:44:02
◼
►
something whatever their analog is a
[TS]
00:44:07
◼
►
yeah so it's I think for the most part
[TS]
00:44:10
◼
►
we've we've concluded that probably
[TS]
00:44:12
◼
►
there's life out there because there's a
[TS]
00:44:13
◼
►
lot of space but probably not going to
[TS]
00:44:15
◼
►
see it anytime soon but they might be
[TS]
00:44:19
◼
►
dragons there
[TS]
00:44:20
◼
►
there might be giants it's a great bands
[TS]
00:44:23
◼
►
a new cover band of sorry
[TS]
00:44:25
◼
►
yes i do they have opposable thumbs
[TS]
00:44:29
◼
►
that's always come how do they hold the
[TS]
00:44:31
◼
►
sword yeah with their minds that's all
[TS]
00:44:34
◼
►
about the dinosaur
[TS]
00:44:35
◼
►
I mean all thought dinosaurs are
[TS]
00:44:38
◼
►
telepathic right like a pretty much
[TS]
00:44:39
◼
►
every single one of these series they
[TS]
00:44:41
◼
►
they communicate telepathically with the
[TS]
00:44:42
◼
►
the humans are the only one that's you
[TS]
00:44:45
◼
►
know the the temper when they actually
[TS]
00:44:47
◼
►
oh but they do have some kind of deep
[TS]
00:44:49
◼
►
bonding
[TS]
00:44:50
◼
►
yeah actually one series i read as a
[TS]
00:44:51
◼
►
child with the Dragons didn't it was I'm
[TS]
00:44:54
◼
►
canyons pit dragons yes yes that was a
[TS]
00:44:57
◼
►
fantastic series it is and i think one
[TS]
00:44:59
◼
►
of the things I liked about it was how
[TS]
00:45:01
◼
►
complex and realistic the whole
[TS]
00:45:04
◼
►
planetary society seemed compared to a
[TS]
00:45:07
◼
►
lot of other dragon centric societies
[TS]
00:45:09
◼
►
but yes
[TS]
00:45:10
◼
►
what's interesting with the way you'll
[TS]
00:45:11
◼
►
entreats the Dragons is the relationship
[TS]
00:45:14
◼
►
between the people the Dragons a lot
[TS]
00:45:16
◼
►
more like the relationship between
[TS]
00:45:17
◼
►
peoples and any sort of specific class
[TS]
00:45:19
◼
►
of animal you know here here on earth
[TS]
00:45:21
◼
►
it's not
[TS]
00:45:21
◼
►
oh I have a telepathic best friend who
[TS]
00:45:23
◼
►
could set you onto five you think
[TS]
00:45:26
◼
►
they're like they're fighting dogs in in
[TS]
00:45:28
◼
►
the dragon degrees
[TS]
00:45:29
◼
►
oh yeah well I friends convinced me to
[TS]
00:45:32
◼
►
watch the neverending story and which I
[TS]
00:45:34
◼
►
never saw when I was a kid
[TS]
00:45:35
◼
►
meaning it's i would say it's worth
[TS]
00:45:39
◼
►
watching because it is yes it is the
[TS]
00:45:41
◼
►
most peculiar movie i think i have that
[TS]
00:45:43
◼
►
are like in an era of peculiar movies
[TS]
00:45:45
◼
►
there's all these inexplicable things is
[TS]
00:45:48
◼
►
just very weird it feels like it was
[TS]
00:45:50
◼
►
edited from two different movies in
[TS]
00:45:52
◼
►
another language with a friend mechanism
[TS]
00:45:53
◼
►
put on english and it's possible that's
[TS]
00:45:55
◼
►
what the case was but there is a dragon
[TS]
00:45:57
◼
►
looks like a giant dog it's a lot of
[TS]
00:45:59
◼
►
muppets in the film and and we have a
[TS]
00:46:01
◼
►
giant parrot
[TS]
00:46:02
◼
►
yeah that's get more like a very strange
[TS]
00:46:04
◼
►
neck and is so there's the end of the
[TS]
00:46:09
◼
►
movie spoiler horn the end of the movie
[TS]
00:46:10
◼
►
is the kid from the real world is flying
[TS]
00:46:13
◼
►
the dragon back into the real world
[TS]
00:46:14
◼
►
where it's chasing down the bullies who
[TS]
00:46:16
◼
►
bothered him at the beginning of the
[TS]
00:46:17
◼
►
movie you know it's been with you yeah
[TS]
00:46:19
◼
►
and for that we need writing for you
[TS]
00:46:21
◼
►
know exactly you're gonna drag that's
[TS]
00:46:25
◼
►
why it's popular in the Y a world right
[TS]
00:46:27
◼
►
now Puff the Magic Dragon
[TS]
00:46:29
◼
►
huh who hasn't dreamed of alicia a
[TS]
00:46:32
◼
►
dragon on your enemies experience
[TS]
00:46:33
◼
►
different different different type of
[TS]
00:46:35
◼
►
Dragon I think you'd make friends with
[TS]
00:46:39
◼
►
yeah he's your friend yeah kids don't
[TS]
00:46:41
◼
►
you implanted kicked out of school
[TS]
00:46:44
◼
►
that's my take on it well at the risk of
[TS]
00:46:47
◼
►
not I'm sorry dragging this on I have to
[TS]
00:46:49
◼
►
say it's been delightful talk dragons
[TS]
00:46:54
◼
►
with you all and we'll have to come back
[TS]
00:46:56
◼
►
and talk about unicorns more James
[TS]
00:46:58
◼
►
Tiptree and the once and future king in
[TS]
00:47:00
◼
►
the future but I thank you all for being
[TS]
00:47:03
◼
►
here tonight my co-host Lisa Schmeisser
[TS]
00:47:05
◼
►
who with him we cook this idea of
[TS]
00:47:06
◼
►
together thank you I'll Glenn did all
[TS]
00:47:08
◼
►
the heavy one thing really well and
[TS]
00:47:11
◼
►
endorse me thank you for being on your
[TS]
00:47:13
◼
►
first time on our podcast thank you very
[TS]
00:47:14
◼
►
much help to come out again thank you
[TS]
00:47:16
◼
►
very much absolutely Sarah barber thank
[TS]
00:47:18
◼
►
you for being here also another
[TS]
00:47:19
◼
►
first-timer thank you for coming out and
[TS]
00:47:20
◼
►
talking dragons with us thank you for
[TS]
00:47:22
◼
►
having me so much and we will be back
[TS]
00:47:24
◼
►
again soon i have no idea what's gonna
[TS]
00:47:25
◼
►
happen the next episode of the
[TS]
00:47:27
◼
►
incomparable may be other games shows
[TS]
00:47:28
◼
►
something in saying that you will you
[TS]
00:47:30
◼
►
will curse us for airing but we hope to
[TS]
00:47:32
◼
►
have you back soon
[TS]
00:47:33
◼
►
thanks for listening
[TS]
00:47:35
◼
►
[Music]
[TS]
00:47:48
◼
►
so you've been so quiet have we have we
[TS]
00:47:51
◼
►
just jibber-jabber you out of existence
[TS]
00:47:53
◼
►
are you just shocked by us
[TS]
00:47:55
◼
►
hello Sarah we lost her
[TS]
00:48:00
◼
►
Cooper what's a little bit because I was
[TS]
00:48:04
◼
►
feeling so back to something and the
[TS]
00:48:05
◼
►
cavern in be
[TS]