The Incomparable

82: Apocalypse Book Club

 

  the incomparable podcast number 82 [TS]

  Morris went well [TS]

  welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

  podcast we are so glad to have you join [TS]

  us because quite frankly we're all quite [TS]

  depressed because we read lots of books [TS]

  about the end of the world [TS]

  i'm your host Jason snow this is a new [TS]

  addition of our book club and our [TS]

  primary book club selection today is a [TS]

  short story collection by maureen McHugh [TS]

  called after the apocalypse [TS]

  it's a collection of looks like nine [TS]

  maybe short stories that generally [TS]

  involve horrible things happening to the [TS]

  world and society 10 shorts and short [TS]

  stories and nice even ten involving [TS]

  miserable things happening too miserable [TS]

  people and then to throw in other things [TS]

  we'll talk about other kind of [TS]

  apocalyptic end of the world kind of [TS]

  literature as we go [TS]

  joining me on this most up with people [TS]

  of podcasts Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

  hi there also scott McNulty hi Scott [TS]

  hello is the world still there where you [TS]

  are well I who knows [TS]

  Philadelphia you can never tell that's [TS]

  pretty much the end of the world anyway [TS]

  and John siracusa hai jaan i find the [TS]

  end of the world exhilarating maybe only [TS]

  one huh [TS]

  that's because you hate everything I [TS]

  don't know maybe they could be it [TS]

  ok it's possible that this one possible [TS]

  scenario so I can't even remember who [TS]

  recommended this book because I'm yeah [TS]

  who recommended this is elisa should we [TS]

  blame Lisa or is it Scott [TS]

  whoo-hoo see it's already I society I [TS]

  societies already deteriorated is [TS]

  already crumbling yeah we're turning on [TS]

  each other that's the message and all of [TS]

  these you're all alone no one likes you [TS]

  you're gonna die up it may have been me [TS]

  alright because I second it with them [TS]

  all right thinking train because i had [TS]

  first heard of marine McHugh through an [TS]

  anthology I got one of the micros McCall [TS]

  edit anthologies called alternate [TS]

  tyrants and the story the caps off that [TS]

  apology is called Lincoln trained by [TS]

  mari mchugh and without giving anything [TS]

  away the story in the premise is that [TS]

  Lincoln survived the assassination but [TS]

  there are group of people were basically [TS]

  acting as president in his stead [TS]

  since obviously you don't just bounce [TS]

  back from a bullet to the brain and one [TS]

  of their bread ideas is to round up with [TS]

  a call recalcitrant southerners and then [TS]

  pack them on trains and send them out to [TS]

  encampments in Indian country and the [TS]

  story Lincoln train is about the [TS]

  experience of one so-called recalcitrant [TS]

  Southerners who can't understand why [TS]

  this is happening to her and it goes [TS]

  over the events of what happens when the [TS]

  people who used to be your countrymen [TS]

  and where your enemy combatants have the [TS]

  upper hand in this in a bad situation [TS]

  so anyway that has nothing to do with [TS]

  this book you know if it's not that [TS]

  sounds terrible it's kind of an upbeat [TS]

  story for her [TS]

  yeah i was going to say it sounds music [TS]

  down she's a little bit of a little bit [TS]

  of a downer the enumerated this is this [TS]

  is after the apocalypse the short story [TS]

  collection this is sort of the theme and [TS]

  and I think that they were the stories [TS]

  were chosen I assume that not every [TS]

  story she writes about the end of the [TS]

  world and not all these stories were [TS]

  really about the end of the world but [TS]

  they are all you know what's it let's [TS]

  let's tackle we pick this election i [TS]

  went back and read her first collection [TS]

  which is mothers and other monsters and [TS]

  what do people do with everybody laughs [TS]

  nervously and and this is just I i think [TS]

  one of the big themes in her work is we [TS]

  are all selfish we are all alone we will [TS]

  never have to understand your connection [TS]

  with another human being and like as [TS]

  long as you understand that going into [TS]

  her stories there's a lot to appreciate [TS]

  just don't ever read them when you're in [TS]

  a bad mood or despairing over the state [TS]

  of humanity into everybody have a good [TS]

  time [TS]

  yeah and i will say i record I i got [TS]

  this book because I'm always fascinated [TS]

  when a genre books kind of crossover [TS]

  into mainstream and people are talking [TS]

  like people who don't normally talk [TS]

  about drama books are talking about it [TS]

  and after the apocalypse was one of [TS]

  these things that like you know the New [TS]

  York Times Book Review people were [TS]

  writing about it and so intrigued me [TS]

  yeah and so there you go that's why [TS]

  funny how that didn't happen with let's [TS]

  say I don't know Harry Potter they found [TS]

  crossing over into the mainstream should [TS]

  repeal you internet service a warning to [TS]

  park there [TS]

  exactly thats that's the wrong kind of [TS]

  Main Street now so in this book we have [TS]

  we have we have a zombie apocalypse we [TS]

  have anything that story by the way we [TS]

  have a I'm gonna let me run down here we [TS]

  have a zombie apocalypse we have an [TS]

  unstated economic apocalypse we have a [TS]

  dirty bomb apocalypse we have an [TS]

  artificial intelligence not really an [TS]

  apocalypse but an emergence we have a [TS]

  medical experiment gone awry but not [TS]

  really an apocalypse we have a chicken [TS]

  nugget apocalypse we have an unstated [TS]

  apocalypse and then there are some [TS]

  people who fly right that's basically [TS]

  what we've got here i'm not question was [TS]

  a flying people have to do with anything [TS]

  are they in an apocalypse there are [TS]

  flying people but wonder if it comes [TS]

  down to the breakdown of emotional [TS]

  equilibrium and reality [TS]

  yeah yeahs because i think the theme [TS]

  that goes through all of these books is [TS]

  these every every single one is about [TS]

  people who have survived an event that [TS]

  has completely altered their worldview [TS]

  and and their frame of reference because [TS]

  in the effect of centrifugal forces [TS]

  which is about the prion disease that [TS]

  that's passed on through the chicken [TS]

  mcnuggets there she really doesn't spend [TS]

  a whole lot of time on the most horrific [TS]

  aspect of the story which is that [TS]

  anybody who's ever eaten chicken [TS]

  mcnugget get this disease and for me I [TS]

  thought that the worst part of the story [TS]

  was you have this poor fourteen-year-old [TS]

  kid who is losing her mother and she has [TS]

  nobody it and she cheat literally feels [TS]

  like the best thing she can possibly do [TS]

  in her life is set fire to her house [TS]

  which he does [TS]

  yeah yeah [TS]

  right she's what she's she's got her her [TS]

  to moms and they've split up and her one [TS]

  mom who's not her biological mom she [TS]

  calls from moms is is a is junkie with a [TS]

  new boyfriend who's kind of shifty and [TS]

  then her mom who stable has Alice as her [TS]

  new partner and but her mom has the [TS]

  chicken nugget disease and is dying and [TS]

  and Alice a hoarder exact analysis a [TS]

  hoarder yes yes yes don't forget that it [TS]

  just to throw that in there there's also [TS]

  supporting this chicken nugget [TS]

  apocalypse and hoarding exactly well i [TS]

  think because she wants every all she [TS]

  wants the main character to be as [TS]

  uncomfortable as possible so you can [TS]

  even there's no like home is not your [TS]

  sanctuary because they your mothers die [TS]

  and be it's full of somebody's other [TS]

  crap and you can't get comfortable on [TS]

  Alice Alice's being very supportive of [TS]

  her mother but Alice doesn't provide [TS]

  because she's a hoarder I mean that the [TS]

  home is no longer really a comfort for [TS]

  her and then her other her other mom is [TS]

  not really much of an option either it's [TS]

  really kind of Miss report story on any [TS]

  personal you've got that nice coupling [TS]

  of personal misery with complete [TS]

  societal misery because because there's [TS]

  a fatalism right that wasn't what [TS]

  everyone is eating chicken mcnugget on [TS]

  the disease is going to hit that's it [TS]

  five years to incubate her junkie mom's [TS]

  boyfriend basically since we could you [TS]

  know we could all be dead but there's no [TS]

  way to know until we get symptoms and [TS]

  there's no test and so every the whole [TS]

  society is degrading mostly out of [TS]

  fatalism right because you everybody [TS]

  could be dying it's fun fishing and [TS]

  irene and irene and Franny should get [TS]

  together and perhaps participate in some [TS]

  sort of competition in which they have [TS]

  to kill each other and the woods [TS]

  horrifying Hunger Games but ya know if [TS]

  for example in that story the apocalypse [TS]

  isn't about that the the prion disease [TS]

  because that's just a fact of life like [TS]

  radiation poisoning or anything else [TS]

  that can kill you the apocalypse is this [TS]

  woman's mother that this young girl's [TS]

  mother dying and her literally having [TS]

  nobody who's willing to step up and take [TS]

  care of her and and I I thought that was [TS]

  something that make you doesn't a lot of [TS]

  the stories is the the so-called [TS]

  apocalypse isn't necessarily the [TS]

  precipitating event like the bird flu [TS]

  especially economics what it is is the [TS]

  event that causes somebody to say okay [TS]

  life as I know it is over [TS]

  here's what comes next you know [TS]

  especially economics it's the [TS]

  realization is the main characters [TS]

  realization that she's effectively sold [TS]

  herself into wage slavery four-by-four [TS]

  for a biotech factory in the kingdom of [TS]

  the blind that's when she realizes that [TS]

  she's dealing with it with a sentient AI [TS]

  and standing up for that a is going to [TS]

  end her career as an IT troubleshooter [TS]

  you know things like that that these [TS]

  so-called catastrophic events are are [TS]

  are basically background noise and most [TS]

  of these stories they're all personal [TS]

  apocalypses exactly yeah yeah which is [TS]

  why I thought it was kind of weird that [TS]

  you left off with the naturalist because [TS]

  Starbase well okay so so here's what I'm [TS]

  struggling to say is on a prison camp [TS]

  some beer some can always yes what the [TS]

  lead character effectively does he gets [TS]

  curious enough about zombies to start [TS]

  wailing his federal prisoners and using [TS]

  them as lab rats in his experiments but [TS]

  you read this and you kind of see the [TS]

  spirit of 19th century naturalist in it [TS]

  you know he's almost like an Audubon of [TS]

  the zombie world and so was i was trying [TS]

  to figure out where his apocalyptic [TS]

  moment came from I guess basically he [TS]

  doesn't have one [TS]

  you know he's already living in it he is [TS]

  he's the master of the the zombie you [TS]

  know well federal prison right and then [TS]

  they close them and that's his [TS]

  apocalypse is leaving the zombie [TS]

  reservation and going back to with [TS]

  regular people and so now his call his [TS]

  skills are meaningless because he had [TS]

  kids he was building up quite a little [TS]

  in mutual of omaha presents some [TS]

  portfolio on the behavior of zombie the [TS]

  main character in The Naturalist he has [TS]

  that turn where he where he begins to [TS]

  set out to study the zombies and there's [TS]

  that moment where he realizes i'm going [TS]

  to kill my fellow prisoners or more [TS]

  disabled them and let the zombies kill [TS]

  them in order to learn more about them [TS]

  for science [TS]

  yeah which is here which is that which [TS]

  you know it is a prison he's a criminal [TS]

  in a prison right so it's like bro i [TS]

  guess you know that so that and it's [TS]

  pretty evident that these guys are [TS]

  killing each other into [TS]

  my eyes anyway right you know they set [TS]

  up in the beginning we have that whole [TS]

  backdrop of you know that had that the [TS]

  society has has degraded to the point [TS]

  because of the zombie apocalypse that [TS]

  they just said Cleveland put just zombie [TS]

  prisoners in their throat Linda's ami [TS]

  preserve and then for some reason they [TS]

  started throwing in prisoners into the [TS]

  preserve then she never makes that [TS]

  reason clear and then there's like this [TS]

  throw line at the end of the story about [TS]

  how the Supreme Court has ruled [TS]

  unconstitutional of presidents been [TS]

  impeached and if i may be frank that was [TS]

  actually the part I found the most [TS]

  unrealistic because seriously like when [TS]

  have you known anybody in Washington to [TS]

  take any capability for any gross [TS]

  violation of human rights by the federal [TS]

  government [TS]

  well after the zombie apocalypse Lisa's [TS]

  yeah it's a new age of personal [TS]

  responses Dombey lobbying Samaritans [TS]

  there's going to be a zombie lobby where [TS]

  they probably have like zombie junkets [TS]

  we can go shoot zombies and dick cheney [TS]

  sheets when the face i mean that's [TS]

  that's where we're going with this [TS]

  I did like in The Naturalist i like i [TS]

  like the idea that that that seems [TS]

  realistic to me i guess this is what you [TS]

  were saying that society would would [TS]

  react to something like a zombie [TS]

  apocalypse in that way of saying well [TS]

  you know we are going to just toss the [TS]

  criminals in with the zombies because we [TS]

  don't we don't care right everybody [TS]

  might as well be zombies or zombie food [TS]

  because they're there they're criminals [TS]

  and and so we're just gonna throw them [TS]

  away [TS]

  it solves two problems at once i right [TS]

  am within that then they're there is as [TS]

  there are in our prisons today there is [TS]

  this kind of culture that grows up [TS]

  there's a guy who's kind of like the [TS]

  leader but then this guy breaks away and [TS]

  goes out into the city and begins his [TS]

  studies and and begins capturing [TS]

  prisoners and and using them in his in [TS]

  his zombie studies that you think he was [TS]

  actually interested in science I think [TS]

  he was interested in surviving think he [TS]

  was curious about what about what the [TS]

  rules of the zombies were I guess I put [TS]

  it that way because once he saw that [TS]

  zombie in the tin foil lined dumpster [TS]

  he was like what is the deal that was [TS]

  the Dalton actually that was that was a [TS]

  brilliant little moment right it's like [TS]

  why does the zombie have a like a little [TS]

  sun bowl that he lives he wants to be [TS]

  warm and then he let me hear that one [TS]

  more is like on the fire escape and he [TS]

  realizes the zombies don't look up then [TS]

  he's [TS]

  curious right he's got some curiosity [TS]

  I'm not sure yet that he was really [TS]

  doing doing it for science but i do [TS]

  think that he had some curiosity and [TS]

  then had no problem basically killing [TS]

  people because i was the key trait that [TS]

  I saw him was that he was nuts because [TS]

  he wasn't he wasn't really insane but at [TS]

  and the reader is interested in the [TS]

  zombies but he's a survivor and he was [TS]

  like huh [TS]

  like you know the same way you might be [TS]

  like what kind of bird that is he's [TS]

  thinking that while he sacrificing like [TS]

  this guy that he's tricked into you know [TS]

  killing people is pretty nonchalant [TS]

  about well he's got this whole list of [TS]

  questions about how they behave and so [TS]

  part of it was I need to answer these [TS]

  questions so I know what I what I can do [TS]

  without getting myself killed by zombies [TS]

  but by the end of it when he starts [TS]

  seeing the zombies rhythmically bobbing [TS]

  their heads after eating and he notices [TS]

  that it's like a communication behavior [TS]

  that's what I think something shifts in [TS]

  his brain and that's why the story ends [TS]

  with him knowing that he would have [TS]

  liked to have set one last fire for the [TS]

  zombies that's him i would like to find [TS]

  like his scientific curiosity does gets [TS]

  parked right at the point where it gets [TS]

  picked up but he's gonna be a world's [TS]

  foremost expert on zombies now right i [TS]

  mean he'll be he'll be family may have [TS]

  this personal apocalypse Scott but you [TS]

  also get I got the sense that he he [TS]

  might be kind of famous like a media [TS]

  because he gets it gets interviewed and [TS]

  yeah and-and-and the pictures of him as [TS]

  he's removed from the from the from [TS]

  cleveland on her are all over the news [TS]

  and that you know the and that struck me [TS]

  as kind of funny to that this guy who [TS]

  just killed all of these people and [TS]

  nobody knows or cares about it he's [TS]

  going to end up being hailed as a [TS]

  survivor and and maybe ultimately as [TS]

  somebody who's an expert on on how the [TS]

  zombies behave but I got the sense that [TS]

  he did not care for his fellow man he [TS]

  would kill them so easily and he was [TS]

  really really interested in the zombies [TS]

  so they took away from the one thing he [TS]

  was interested in and I don't think it's [TS]

  going to end well for him i don't know i [TS]

  think i'll become like David [TS]

  Attenborough of [TS]

  I'll be like little leading at you know [TS]

  expeditions into cleveland or maybe what [TS]

  you'll do is he'll he'll redirect that [TS]

  energy into killing people for for [TS]

  another yeah because just going to kill [TS]

  back different reasons yeah we'll find [TS]

  another reason to do it he'll you know [TS]

  he'll find help frame another [TS]

  investigative question and go back to [TS]

  killing people in some way so we should [TS]

  talk a little bit about uh about useless [TS]

  things which is another story in this [TS]

  collection which is about a sculptor a [TS]

  woman in the southwest to makes these [TS]

  creepy uh living dolls they're like [TS]

  newborn newborn and all replicas and she [TS]

  makes makes them for people over the [TS]

  internet and and there's basically a [TS]

  gradual economic apocalypse that's [TS]

  happening that comes with a lot of her [TS]

  stories where where the gulf between the [TS]

  haves and have-nots just gotten so big [TS]

  that people are are falling off of the [TS]

  edge into the Gulf yeah i'm clearly [TS]

  that's her that's the world you in na [TS]

  post Great Recession kind of environment [TS]

  that would seem to be a fairly [TS]

  straightforward reasonable extrapolation [TS]

  to say that you know this is not going [TS]

  to get better it's going to keep getting [TS]

  worse people are going to get pulled [TS]

  apart it's gonna be this gradual [TS]

  apocalypse which I find actually in some [TS]

  ways more realistic and and more [TS]

  terrifying than the kind of sudden [TS]

  apocalypse so it's like what if they're [TS]

  suddenly we're zombies or what if there [TS]

  was a horrible bomb that exploded in [TS]

  irradiated Maryland yeah and and much [TS]

  worse to have it just be things just [TS]

  kept getting worse and and worse and [TS]

  worse until everybody you know lost [TS]

  their jobs and and waiting to make your [TS]

  writing a college yeah you need you know [TS]

  you're filled with obsolete during your [TS]

  lifetime something like that which is [TS]

  horrifying but I this is it was kind of [TS]

  a i found a kind of a bizarre story and [TS]

  i liked at something that happens in [TS]

  that story and also in a couple of the [TS]

  others it definitely one of her one of [TS]

  the accused of motifs here is the [TS]

  American attitude that poor hungry [TS]

  people are from somewhere else [TS]

  yes and there's a there's an actual line [TS]

  in one of these stories I'm trying to [TS]

  remember which one might be after the [TS]

  apocalypse where where that somebody [TS]

  basically said [TS]

  as you know where Americans you know or [TS]

  not we're not hungry homeless refugees [TS]

  don't use the word refugee but it's a [TS]

  lot yeah that's the last time yeah [TS]

  what's up with the convoy and she's [TS]

  horrified by yeah and in in in useless [TS]

  things it's theirs [TS]

  she makes a similar observation about [TS]

  the the migrants who are coming by and [TS]

  doing some you know doing some work in [TS]

  her garden before they move along that [TS]

  there's definitely that feeling that you [TS]

  know just because you've gotten [TS]

  comfortable being in a wealthy country [TS]

  doesn't make you any different as a [TS]

  person and any more subject to you know [TS]

  terrible economic conditions then [TS]

  somebody who's in Africa or in you know [TS]

  in anywhere any other poor part of the [TS]

  world must plus then she turns to making [TS]

  sex toys return to make sex toys because [TS]

  Justin their property taxes gonna be [TS]

  exactly going to make somebody creepy [TS]

  creepy [TS]

  so what there's a weird part of that [TS]

  story where it turns out that that she's [TS]

  making his living dolls for this couple [TS]

  and it turns out that it's just the guy [TS]

  who's using them and he's using numbers [TS]

  like a pickup and pick-up line why I'm [TS]

  grieving my dead child and presumably [TS]

  that that gets him a pity role and and [TS]

  again and on it goes from there it's [TS]

  just so so strange whole that whole [TS]

  story so strange it is a strange story [TS]

  well I i think what it also points out [TS]

  is is artist kind of a commodity of a [TS]

  stable society where where people feel [TS]

  comfortable spending money because no [TS]

  doubt they got in and one of the things [TS]

  is the guy who ordered the dolls clearly [TS]

  doesn't appreciate the art in the effort [TS]

  that goes into him and as an artist you [TS]

  can't make a living when the world was [TS]

  crumbling apart you know the artist one [TS]

  of the first casualties of of any [TS]

  apocalypse [TS]

  so you doing thing turned to other [TS]

  methods right that's got it was just yep [TS]

  that's the risk you don't really care [TS]

  for that story let's just gotta tell [TS]

  it's a scary moment to where she goes [TS]

  over to to get her dog girl your dog's [TS]

  been found you a relatively nice guy and [TS]

  his like son and his friends are [TS]

  man out of the desert riding their their [TS]

  bikes or whatever it is they're there [TS]

  for this their motorbikes and he is [TS]

  underdone mom and he basically says just [TS]

  don't even look at them don't talk to [TS]

  them just get in your truck and drive [TS]

  away and you get the sense that although [TS]

  these older people are kind of trying to [TS]

  hold with having some sort of society [TS]

  that everybody below a certain age [TS]

  pretty much is just completely lawless [TS]

  and scary and and and dangerous and [TS]

  horrible [TS]

  oh yeah there's a there's a lot of that [TS]

  story actually I'm where it's the [TS]

  parents of the girl who's pregnant my [TS]

  camera that Cheryl's your name Cynthia [TS]

  but they mention that the inside the [TS]

  house it was like a flashback to 20 [TS]

  years ago because they have this working [TS]

  flat screen TV and it's air-conditioned [TS]

  the surfaces are all cleaning the [TS]

  refrigerator is packed and there's a [TS]

  line in there about how these people [TS]

  still regarded thoughtful liberalism is [TS]

  their birthright and the narrator had [TS]

  two until she realized it was her [TS]

  generations burden to be born in [TS]

  interesting times and it was just it was [TS]

  just a really nice really scraping [TS]

  throwaway Sherry's name of the woman i'm [TS]

  looking it up now [TS]

  oh i thought this life of thought that [TS]

  here's the one I thought this life of [TS]

  thoughtful liberalism was my birthright [TS]

  before I understood my generation was to [TS]

  be born in interesting times and it [TS]

  points out that like you said you know [TS]

  for older it if it could be seen almost [TS]

  as a veiled indictment of say the baby [TS]

  boomers who are you know certainly [TS]

  pretty comfortable with their paid for [TS]

  houses and the jobs they refuse to [TS]

  retire from well in younger generations [TS]

  you've got crazy high rates of [TS]

  unemployment and people are questioning [TS]

  the need to build families in [TS]

  traditional two-parent family structures [TS]

  and and things like that you know it's [TS]

  it's just this huge social gulf between [TS]

  older generations and younger [TS]

  generations thanks the actions of one [TS]

  generation and not necessarily the [TS]

  younger one now so uh John what did you [TS]

  think of the the kingdom of the blind [TS]

  yarra you're a technology guy and a [TS]

  computer and a programmer that that that [TS]

  was I thought interesting in that it was [TS]

  trying to portray not not so much the [TS]

  end of the world but at an emergence of [TS]

  computer intelligence which I thought [TS]

  was an interesting attempt to say it's [TS]

  not going to be like [TS]

  you know it if there's an artificial [TS]

  intelligence that kind of emerges it's [TS]

  not going to be like what you would [TS]

  think from a movie or a TV show it's [TS]

  going to be weird and hard to understand [TS]

  the people aren't going to really get it [TS]

  did that did that work for you or did it [TS]

  not work for you it the closer she got [TS]

  to trying to explain what was actually [TS]

  going on the worst things got so she [TS]

  should not have tried to talk about [TS]

  summer teenies or the actual work that [TS]

  the programmers were doing anything like [TS]

  that the actual activities of the Dai in [TS]

  terms of rolling the lights and taking [TS]

  data input like in broad strokes that's [TS]

  fine everything works and is an [TS]

  interesting idea [TS]

  yeah i thought that was cool it's like [TS]

  what's what the hell's going on and it's [TS]

  only later they have get that she should [TS]

  have her got a consultant in there [TS]

  because there are systems where there [TS]

  are complicated enough that and have so [TS]

  many different inputs that is difficult [TS]

  to for someone to wrap their head around [TS]

  but the way she described them is not [TS]

  really doesn't have any basis in [TS]

  anything I you know it's like she got [TS]

  some like a cobol programmer from 1960 [TS]

  to talk to our and then like one time [TS]

  she wrote 10 print hello 22 yeah I was [TS]

  gonna say syntax error in 30 and then [TS]

  the lights went out in the basic program [TS]

  is alive but that's just because i'm [TS]

  going to a computer nerd i bet other [TS]

  other people probably thought it was too [TS]

  esoteric so that I think there was the [TS]

  seed of a good short story in there [TS]

  I'm just glad that in that story the [TS]

  female was not sexually menaced which is [TS]

  a rarity for this short story collection [TS]

  and I suppose there is manager there is [TS]

  menacing route before we leave this [TS]

  behind i wanted to touch on the last [TS]

  story before we as a transition but [TS]

  before we do that it is there something [TS]

  anything left that you observations [TS]

  about this in general about this [TS]

  collection that that that you guys would [TS]

  want to make I I it was fat it was short [TS]

  i read it very fast it was short and [TS]

  some of the stories i thought oh that [TS]

  was really interesting because i like [TS]

  sci-fi short stories and others i was [TS]

  like huh you know so it was it what [TS]

  about the flying bag for me no way [TS]

  people fly in my room I live alone [TS]

  they feel away because they needed to [TS]

  get on a boat so they were slightly [TS]

  closer to France friends I like that [TS]

  story that was the 1i connected with the [TS]

  least I liked it so much because it [TS]

  makes absolutely no sense it's okay it [TS]

  does make some kind of sense depending [TS]

  on what you assume the premises it and [TS]

  so it explain please [TS]

  well I don't know what do you have what [TS]

  is you worry each of your takes on on [TS]

  that story is there something that some [TS]

  sort of backstory that you can come up [TS]

  with it makes the story start to make [TS]

  some kind of sense [TS]

  no nothing it's almost like a mental [TS]

  contagion that people got some sort of [TS]

  mimetic virus is the only thing i can [TS]

  think of it was it was like in 24-hour [TS]

  flu only with a dumb idea I i figured [TS]

  it's like they're like super people and [TS]

  the super people are going to go to [TS]

  France and we had come in contact with [TS]

  the super people you get kind of like [TS]

  for hot up into the the wanting to go to [TS]

  France and being with the super people [TS]

  like they rub off on you yeah you would [TS]

  go to superheroes like that that [TS]

  probably place you just give some yeah I [TS]

  know soon as you see flying could be [TS]

  great to I went to of course the very [TS]

  ending of the thing where he's talking [TS]

  about the seeing somebody someone [TS]

  running in front of an SUV or something [TS]

  and and like time sort of stops and the [TS]

  running person had one foot off the [TS]

  ground but his left foot wiggle back and [TS]

  forth on his ankle [TS]

  it's like you they're all in a [TS]

  simulation in the simulation is pause [TS]

  but it's glitching back and forth from [TS]

  you know frame 2720 27-28 that type of [TS]

  things like to I saw it all as a virtual [TS]

  reality thing where they're all in a [TS]

  simulation and the simulation is [TS]

  breaking down and everyone going to [TS]

  France it means the title it's like [TS]

  something you from prison for something [TS]

  while I don't need to go to France and [TS]

  some some sort of virtual reality based [TS]

  reasoning that makes sense within the [TS]

  game world but everything's all messed [TS]

  up and since they're this is how would [TS]

  be like if you thought the game world [TS]

  was the real world and it was getting [TS]

  all confused you know sooner or later we [TS]

  all go to France [TS]

  yeah and the imagery at the end people [TS]

  flying works in virtual world in the [TS]

  imagery the end it was too i was it was [TS]

  strangely described i think it was [TS]

  trying to get to that you know [TS]

  pause jumping back and forth between [TS]

  frames kind of glitch so [TS]

  but I mean I I thought that was the most [TS]

  interesting of the stories also yes the [TS]

  it holds together the least but at least [TS]

  let me at least let me fill in something [TS]

  and decide what I think nice right [TS]

  so overall overall what's what's what's [TS]

  your take on this collection Scott what [TS]

  do you think well I I'm just a small by [TS]

  the way it is my fault and I'm okay with [TS]

  that because I enjoyed it i thought they [TS]

  were they were very interesting stories [TS]

  the last story of course incredibly [TS]

  depressing but overall it was worth you [TS]

  know that was that was not good but in a [TS]

  good way it was and what is it was a [TS]

  bittersweet but not really speed also [TS]

  it's just been a yeah I was gonna say [TS]

  where the sweet medic [TS]

  I don't like kids so you know I just [TS]

  but overall I enjoyed it i thought as [TS]

  well written [TS]

  interesting i like the fact that the [TS]

  apocalypse over the apocalypses weren't [TS]

  really the focus of the stories they [TS]

  were just kind of a set into motion [TS]

  other things so it wasn't like you oh [TS]

  look there's zombies [TS]

  let's run away but that you know she was [TS]

  thinking about what would happen in and [TS]

  kind of make them more personal look [TS]

  there's zombies let's kill other people [TS]

  and use them to test the zombies and you [TS]

  know about the zombies exactly but there [TS]

  are only want one zombie story which was [TS]

  good right [TS]

  that is a relief Lisa what about you [TS]

  what do you think of the collection [TS]

  well depressing as hell but yeah you [TS]

  know when I got my first take on it [TS]

  I couldn't stop thinking about the [TS]

  stories and what I liked about them was [TS]

  how they were really well-drawn [TS]

  character studies because many of these [TS]

  people are people you would want to talk [TS]

  to or know or be friends with but you do [TS]

  find themselves kind of understanding [TS]

  them and even feeling a little bit [TS]

  sympathetic for them and I think that's [TS]

  the sign of a good writer where she can [TS]

  make someone comprehensible and [TS]

  relatable to you even if there's nothing [TS]

  in your experiences that that you have [TS]

  in common and i think that one of the [TS]

  accused strength is she writes about [TS]

  working-class people and folks who are [TS]

  on the economic edge in a way that a lot [TS]

  of sci-fi authors don't do it for [TS]

  example if you read John barley he [TS]

  touches on a similar theme but his [TS]

  people are almost always insane [TS]

  resourceful and they happen to be oh i [TS]

  don't know like Motel clerks who are [TS]

  also rocket scientist to spare time and [TS]

  they have an uncle who's a survivalist [TS]

  so they'll be fine no matter what or [TS]

  they'll be William Gibson where there's [TS]

  some eccentric Japanese billionaire who [TS]

  hands of an AI box and next thing you [TS]

  know they're in a world of gilded [TS]

  privilege and this is the exact opposite [TS]

  of that and the only other author i can [TS]

  think of who does something similar is [TS]

  Nancy crest who also talks about what [TS]

  it's like to be an extra on the world [TS]

  stage of history when these bright and [TS]

  shiny privileged people are doing things [TS]

  that does that do in the world as we [TS]

  know it so I I think it's a really [TS]

  valuable contribution and I'm going to [TS]

  continue seeking out her work but i'm [TS]

  going to have to make sure i'm in a [TS]

  really good mental place before I don't [TS]

  because you will be afterwards [TS]

  John what do you thank you you are you [TS]

  don't read a lot of stuff because you're [TS]

  not a high-volume reader this was short [TS]

  yeah i like the fact that was short and [TS]

  I do read a lot of short story [TS]

  collections and i usually have queued up [TS]

  those a year's best fantasy and cyclic [TS]

  ends for many years past me that you [TS]

  know like I haven't read them all so I [TS]

  read i'll read them from like 2001 if I [TS]

  have no just go back and those [TS]

  collections have kind of spoiled me for [TS]

  collections like this because they those [TS]

  are by different authors so if you don't [TS]

  like one author you want a different [TS]

  taste you know the next door is going to [TS]

  be different and be i think the take to [TS]

  get into those collections that usually [TS]

  they want you to have either a really [TS]

  interesting premise especially for the [TS]

  the syfy ones or a really tight little [TS]

  narrative and these stories don't really [TS]

  have the premises are not that [TS]

  interesting like the one of these movie [TS]

  stand alone on their premises and the [TS]

  narratives are definitely not beginning [TS]

  middle and tight little short stories a [TS]

  business theme running through all of [TS]

  them and I kind of like a a a picture [TS]

  that she wants to paint but there's just [TS]

  this is the sameness after a while after [TS]

  eight or nine stories are I think you [TS]

  could have gotten away with like three [TS]

  of these and then had [TS]

  another author do the other you know six [TS]

  or seven how many even are there and [TS]

  this thing that the ss10 especially [TS]

  economics is actually in the year's best [TS]

  science fiction collection I'd read it [TS]

  before and that one actually seems to be [TS]

  some sort of structurally the most like [TS]

  those kinds of stories and that it's [TS]

  tighter it's got the the bird flu [TS]

  apocalypse but it's also about you know [TS]

  Chinese labor conditions and and they've [TS]

  got the you know she gets a fab phone [TS]

  and so it's definitely in the in the [TS]

  future but you know and that they meet [TS]

  the guy who who have wants to steal [TS]

  their their bio electronic box and all [TS]

  that that seems like an interesting kind [TS]

  of slice of future extrapolation that's [TS]

  much more like the kind of stories that [TS]

  I expect to see in those collections [TS]

  than some of these other pieces which [TS]

  are much more kind of a bleak and odd [TS]

  but I'm looking for out of Adam short [TS]

  story collection i want more likeable [TS]

  characters or more interesting premises [TS]

  or more variety so this kind of was like [TS]

  black to me more of the same yeah [TS]

  everybody dies so so yeah I mean [TS]

  thatthat's I I sort of feel that way to [TS]

  it is that it's tough being used to [TS]

  having a kind of very short story diet [TS]

  to have these be all variations on a [TS]

  theme and I can definitely see their [TS]

  various variations on a theme but ya [TS]

  didn't really do it for me I'm glad I'm [TS]

  glad it was short it certainly they were [TS]

  I didn't feel like I was struggling to [TS]

  read them but it didn't really it didn't [TS]

  really throw me what I what I actually [TS]

  liked you know I i will remember the [TS]

  naturalist because it is kind of an [TS]

  interesting idea of these the zombie [TS]

  prison that's collective a nice [TS]

  different kind of take on zombies that [TS]

  will just throw the president the [TS]

  zombies and see what happens and and [TS]

  after the apocalypse the reason I the [TS]

  last story which appears only I believe [TS]

  in this collection and as in the [TS]

  collections name for it [TS]

  the reason I wanted to use that as a [TS]

  segue is that it it seemed to me to [TS]

  almost be a a conscious reference to the [TS]

  road by cormac mccarthy in that that [TS]

  does everything exactly the opposite [TS]

  yeah it's an inversion right so it's but [TS]

  it's it's it's a mother and daughter [TS]

  instead [TS]

  father and son they're still apocalypse [TS]

  although it's not as as utterly [TS]

  apocalyptic as as in the McCarthy novel [TS]

  but I one of the things that I love I [TS]

  mean them so the road dark i have all of [TS]

  you read the road have no Scott because [TS]

  I I i had no rights so I fell and John [TS]

  has the why I'm okay with being spoiled [TS]

  on without so feel free [TS]

  well let me as a road and into the world [TS]

  it's bleak and it's bleak yes indeed [TS]

  deep dark and i love it i is one of the [TS]

  best books I've ever read [TS]

  I I it is one of my favorites it is [TS]

  super dark but I'm okay with that [TS]

  I I feel like I actually have a problem [TS]

  with a lot of these apocalypse stories [TS]

  because I feel like they don't really [TS]

  that their their their fantasies that [TS]

  they imagine a level of the society [TS]

  holding itself together and people being [TS]

  decent that I don't believe would [TS]

  actually be the case I actually believed [TS]

  it would be far more horrific than most [TS]

  of these especially in movies and TV [TS]

  shows you see like The Walking Dead is a [TS]

  good example is like The Walking Dead is [TS]

  too gentle [TS]

  I think it's too easy it would be much [TS]

  more brutal and horrible and they [TS]

  probably don't want to show that so the [TS]

  road [TS]

  father and son just like mother and [TS]

  daughter in that last story the big [TS]

  difference is it the road [TS]

  despite all of its bleakness it's about [TS]

  it's about a parent's love for their [TS]

  child and unconditional love and wanted [TS]

  to protect their child that's what it's [TS]

  about it it I that's why I find it so [TS]

  moving even with everything else taken [TS]

  out of the world it's about that after [TS]

  the apocalypse the story is inverted not [TS]

  only because its mother and daughter but [TS]

  because it's the mother just doesn't [TS]

  really she's annoyed by her daughter and [TS]

  doesn't really care and abandons her [TS]

  that's just what I didn't even bleaker [TS]

  view then the road though because you're [TS]

  saying yeah this is brewed were also [TS]

  selfish that yeah well this was this was [TS]

  a selfish woman you could tell before [TS]

  the apocalypse she was not a great you [TS]

  know like I boarded the first one the [TS]

  second one you know it's stubborn had it [TS]

  but then you tips [TS]

  this is the show you all yeah this was a [TS]

  bad mother before the apocalypse and [TS]

  after what a surprise she continues to [TS]

  be a bad [TS]

  listen to me i was amazing she was is at [TS]

  stuck with her daughter for as long as [TS]

  she did but when we need her she's [TS]

  complaining about her daughter but [TS]

  you're right so in that way it is bleep [TS]

  horrible justification she makes where [TS]

  she's like I ran away from home for the [TS]

  first time when I was just yeah [TS]

  overnight was my mind and I'm thinking [TS]

  yeah I'm gonna get you know you read [TS]

  away the stable a country where you [TS]

  didn't have refugee camps and you're [TS]

  abandoning this child to a stranger you [TS]

  know it was right where some in the road [TS]

  you know there is nothing there is [TS]

  nothing left and the only thing there is [TS]

  that the father is taking care of of the [TS]

  son of his child no it's completely yes [TS]

  everything else is broken down [TS]

  completely like everything like [TS]

  photosynthesis has broken nothing and [TS]

  everything is dangerous and everybody's [TS]

  cold and miserable and it's just yeah [TS]

  yeah very different than this where it's [TS]

  like oh there might be a scary person [TS]

  house ok let's run over fine now [TS]

  yeah right i want to bring up the road [TS]

  because i think that that when i was [TS]

  reading the this collection that was the [TS]

  the book that came back to me is I think [TS]

  a a great exploration of that end of the [TS]

  world feeling and that if I had to pick [TS]

  a favorite on this topic that would [TS]

  certainly be it not only like I said not [TS]

  only because yes i am i find it really [TS]

  touching that in the midst of all this [TS]

  darkness it really is about a father a [TS]

  loving his son and Cormac McCarthy [TS]

  dedicated the book to his son but that [TS]

  it also i thought was a real a really [TS]

  accurate [TS]

  I don't know I to me seemed believable [TS]

  poor trail of just how awful and [TS]

  miserable people would be put in a [TS]

  circumstance like that its unflinching [TS]

  and saying people with your horrible [TS]

  things they will kill each other they [TS]

  will each other they will farm each [TS]

  other they will do they will do anything [TS]

  to survive and you know don't pretend [TS]

  that that it wouldn't come to that if it [TS]

  had to which is really depressing but i [TS]

  think it's true it's also much better [TS]

  writer I think I mean but what he does [TS]

  in that book of the way his weird style [TS]

  that he has and how its describing [TS]

  situation no commas and very few and no [TS]

  quotes [TS]

  one explanation marks reading other [TS]

  stories that are steps that are similar [TS]

  premise where people are like on the [TS]

  road like those them in that after the [TS]

  apocalypse they're traveling why they [TS]

  traveling well what else you gonna do [TS]

  you gotta go somewhere because you think [TS]

  so everything's better than anywhere [TS]

  else [TS]

  everything's better in Canada yeah and [TS]

  and you know they're just describing [TS]

  everything that goes on and the the [TS]

  discussions between a mother and a child [TS]

  crying McCarthy makes it look so easy [TS]

  where he is going to use quotation marks [TS]

  and it's it's it's amazing the stuff [TS]

  that he gets across in that book in such [TS]

  a small amount of time that other [TS]

  authors ramble on and on trying to [TS]

  express what he expresses in like the [TS]

  exchange of seven unquoted things that [TS]

  we think might be said but possibly also [TS]

  thought that was a real you know he's a [TS]

  great writer so that's that's a level [TS]

  above when I like one great writers take [TS]

  on a topic that is nerdy you know like [TS]

  the end of the world or something [TS]

  because you get the best of both worlds [TS]

  yeah yeah Scott you read the road where [TS]

  you'd thoroughly depressed her I i read [TS]

  the road immediately after i read it [TS]

  after the apocalypse [TS]

  oh my was Oh further depressed arm [TS]

  I'm glad you're still with us come out [TS]

  now it's all gonna be over [TS]

  no I mean you know it's hard to prepare [TS]

  anything to Cormac McCarthy oh because [TS]

  it's jon said he's such a brilliant [TS]

  writer that I think any book about the [TS]

  apocalypse compared to the road will [TS]

  suffer greatly because he's a genius and [TS]

  very few people are a Maureen with you [TS]

  is a fine writer but she is not as good [TS]

  a writer as he is so he takes something [TS]

  that is a fairly cliché kind of premise [TS]

  right if you make something that is [TS]

  beautiful and special and amazing where [TS]

  she takes some interesting premises and [TS]

  make some interesting stories there's [TS]

  nothing wrong with that but it's just a [TS]

  whole different level of writing is [TS]

  going on right so you like the roads i [TS]

  didn't realize that was a new read for [TS]

  yourself it was because I i bought it [TS]

  many years ago and I read like 20 pages [TS]

  of it and I said this is way too [TS]

  depressing and I picked it up again when [TS]

  after i read after the apocalypse and I [TS]

  thought well maybe it gets better at the [TS]

  and uh i don't know i don't want to [TS]

  spoil the ending was earlier for Lisa [TS]

  but i would have if she wasn't I would [TS]

  have discussed but your ball thought of [TS]

  the ending and what was actually I no [TS]

  please I'm i have no plans to read it [TS]

  alright because this is this is horrible [TS]

  because this is one of the side effects [TS]

  of parenthood that no one warned me [TS]

  about which is that after you have your [TS]

  after I had my child I really can't [TS]

  handle child in parallel stories I I [TS]

  can't handle stories where children lose [TS]

  their parents or parents lose their kids [TS]

  it's just this guy i read i read the [TS]

  road after i had kids and I i felt i [TS]

  understood and appreciated more because [TS]

  it spoke I i agree there's a lot of [TS]

  cheap child in peril stuff that I I [TS]

  can't take anymore and actually I hate [TS]

  it now because I I know how cheap it is [TS]

  and and I didn't feel that way with the [TS]

  road the road to me spoke of a feeling i [TS]

  would get this feeling just walking [TS]

  around with my kids and their be [TS]

  somebody coming the other way and we'd [TS]

  be like on an overpass over freeway and [TS]

  I think if this person tries to do [TS]

  something to me I will kill them because [TS]

  i have my children right [TS]

  I am so yeah I I just I've had that [TS]

  moment a few times where it's like I [TS]

  will do anything to protect my children [TS]

  and the road it in a better way I think [TS]

  that any other piece of art I've ever [TS]

  seen it speaks to that feeling that that [TS]

  just final visceral feeling that I will [TS]

  do anything I can for my children now at [TS]

  the end of the road [TS]

  I know the father of the father finally [TS]

  succumbs to whatever terrible elements [TS]

  and he gets hurt in the side he gets [TS]

  shot or pierced by and he was going to [TS]

  die from long island anyway [TS]

  yeah we guys he dies at the end he tells [TS]

  lies [TS]

  yeah and then but there's the man on the [TS]

  beach or whatever goes over to the Sun [TS]

  and says you know come with us and so [TS]

  the question the end of the book is is [TS]

  that guy on the up-and-up or is the Sun [TS]

  going to be tomorrow night's dinner [TS]

  right because they've got it sits him [TS]

  and a woman and two kids [TS]

  yeah so that they you know in theory [TS]

  their family but you know and he and he [TS]

  said well it goes far enough that he [TS]

  talks about how the woman talks a lot [TS]

  about god and he doesn't really talk to [TS]

  God but he he's gonna ask her first okay [TS]

  that he can talk to his dad who's dead [TS]

  but he's going to talk to him [TS]

  and see there there is that it is [TS]

  hopeful and ending as you're ever going [TS]

  to get out of that book was the thing is [TS]

  a setup and all the things that had [TS]

  happened during the course of the book [TS]

  set you up to understand that things are [TS]

  not what they seem and that everything [TS]

  you think is normal is not so when [TS]

  you're presented with this at the end [TS]

  there's no way you you're put into the [TS]

  shoes of the kid and you're like you [TS]

  know don't believe it kid and you [TS]

  haven't you been paying attention for [TS]

  the past 200 pages you know dont thats [TS]

  exactly but no don't go but on the other [TS]

  hand is gonna die on his own anyways I'm [TS]

  sup so we just this poor kid out there [TS]

  he's forced to go i was so meet well [TS]

  that's that that's the happy [TS]

  wow that's good for me I that that for [TS]

  me the end of that book is all about the [TS]

  lowered standards at the end of the [TS]

  world that that's the happy ending at [TS]

  the Hat is like well they're not eating [TS]

  me immediately they write that might [TS]

  protect me and not eat me and but you [TS]

  but by knowing what you know about [TS]

  everything else that's happened you [TS]

  don't go in saying oh it's gonna be fine [TS]

  you're like know it [TS]

  watch yourself don't trust them maybe [TS]

  this will be okay maybe it won't be [TS]

  waiting at the same time it's like the [TS]

  best [TS]

  yeah yeah could sneak up to the stink up [TS]

  to the little one little denied him with [TS]

  a rock you know its best the best you [TS]

  could you can hope for is this chance [TS]

  you're fearing that too that's another [TS]

  way they could have gone with that is [TS]

  that because that the father is trying [TS]

  desperately to teach the Sun human [TS]

  values and to value human life so we're [TS]

  not going to be alive right but the kid [TS]

  is young so it's like now that the [TS]

  father's influence isn't there will he [TS]

  be able to maintain all the things that [TS]

  the father tried in part on him over the [TS]

  course of the book in the face of the [TS]

  fact that he has to survive and survival [TS]

  instincts [TS]

  besides which there's the as you read it [TS]

  you also realize that while its you [TS]

  really care about the father and the Son [TS]

  staying alive and father protecting the [TS]

  Sun it's very clear from the [TS]

  surroundings that everyone is not this [TS]

  is not a scenario that yeah that is [TS]

  going to turn around right it will be it [TS]

  will just continue going downhill until [TS]

  the last person is dead right it does [TS]

  have that beautiful interlude in the [TS]

  middle though with the bomb shelter [TS]

  it's really warm fuzzy center to this [TS]

  book is the bomb shelter thing where you [TS]

  know it's gonna end it can't last [TS]

  forever right fit for this little tiny [TS]

  brief period of time this that moment of [TS]

  normalcy that they live a whole life and [TS]

  you know however there long they were [TS]

  there week right right well that's [TS]

  that's the also dark but it but also [TS]

  beautiful which is really what that book [TS]

  is that that's kind of McCarthy also [TS]

  saying you know what's the point of life [TS]

  it's that they get they get some time [TS]

  together and they're enjoying that thing [TS]

  and you know everybody everybody is born [TS]

  everybody dies at the end and in the [TS]

  middle you hopefully hopefully have a a [TS]

  good life and they have the father and [TS]

  the Son have that nice little moment [TS]

  where they find the kind of undiscovered [TS]

  shelter that's can still got some food [TS]

  in it but clearly the way the world is [TS]

  going is nobody's making it out alive [TS]

  they're all just hanging on until they [TS]

  are all dead or even or eat well with [TS]

  your sweet you don't ya depending on how [TS]

  you're eating they could keep you alive [TS]

  for wrong slice off bits and pieces that [TS]

  you don't need a strip of excited [TS]

  because they're all i got a do that of [TS]

  course they do [TS]

  oh yeah how way worse the mat so Jesus [TS]

  house it's dark it's it's a matter of [TS]

  food now just just so does anybody else [TS]

  have have favorite or or I suppose hate [TS]

  of examples of apocalyptic stuff that [TS]

  you would like to talk about bring and [TS]

  bring up and while we're on the subject [TS]

  of depressing things i mentioned Nancy [TS]

  cross earlier this is actually think [TS]

  that she comes to over and over again to [TS]

  which is that humanity will eventually [TS]

  screw things up because some [TS]

  biotechnological experiment will go [TS]

  horribly arrived will be killed enough [TS]

  bye-bye genetically modified algae or or [TS]

  again somebody will invent an airborne [TS]

  cancer that you can catch just by [TS]

  sneezing and our her stuff tends to come [TS]

  out with how people will deal with the [TS]

  realization that they're setting foot on [TS]

  the road as it were [TS]

  you know one of the conceit seems to be [TS]

  that those of us who have experienced [TS]

  civilization will be taking it a lot [TS]

  harder than people who are born into [TS]

  lawlessness generating an Arkie since [TS]

  they will never know what they're [TS]

  missing [TS]

  but you know one of my classic ones is a [TS]

  paint a pail of error by Fritz liber [TS]

  which is when the earth has a [TS]

  catastrophic astrological event and the [TS]

  Earth's atmosphere is ripped away and [TS]

  basically there's a small family that [TS]

  man just survive only by virtue of dad [TS]

  having been a climatologist and figuring [TS]

  out how to keep the family going but I I [TS]

  tend to like the short stories but I do [TS]

  agree with Jason that most the time [TS]

  there's this here's a here's a scientist [TS]

  hiding out in somehow keeping the flame [TS]

  of civilization goin whereas like him [TS]

  I'll i suspect that if you if an actual [TS]

  apocalyptic event were to occur it if [TS]

  things would get hideous really quickly [TS]

  you know we would we would also generate [TS]

  to lawless anarchy oh yeah it wouldn't [TS]

  take very much i think now this is the [TS]

  thing about the walking dead the [TS]

  comic-book versus the the TV show is in [TS]

  the TV show everyone is still fairly [TS]

  clean and they're saying please and [TS]

  thank you and they're very very [TS]

  civilized and the the further you get [TS]

  into the comic like the worse it gets [TS]

  and it actually reflects how people [TS]

  would probably act if if they were [TS]

  waking up every morning in a world that [TS]

  was up to kill them right so you know [TS]

  that's that's the thing that I think not [TS]

  enough Apocalyptica fiction really [TS]

  brings home is the idea that that your [TS]

  inexplicably left alive in a place that [TS]

  wants to kill you and you have the urge [TS]

  to keep going and the question is what [TS]

  will you do [TS]

  at what point do your actions to survive [TS]

  outweigh your value you know as it as a [TS]

  living person so Scott you have any [TS]

  favorite apocalyptic stories [TS]

  well I i cannot remember the name of [TS]

  this book which is unfortunate or you'll [TS]

  fit right in with that many days [TS]

  there you go but it was it was written [TS]

  in the fifties set after a nuclear war [TS]

  where and somehow these the script [TS]

  people managed to have a house to find a [TS]

  house and like the Florida Keys and they [TS]

  could you know they learned how to farm [TS]

  and all the stuff and it was just kind [TS]

  of charging how they held out and you [TS]

  know they had a radio and they're [TS]

  listening for transmissions and at the [TS]

  end of the book a helicopter with the US [TS]

  flag lands on it and you know a guy [TS]

  comes out dressed [TS]

  not uniform and the first thing the main [TS]

  character asks him is did we win the war [TS]

  and the the American soldier says yes we [TS]

  did but it as i was reading this is like [TS]

  nobody won this war if there isn't it [TS]

  pretty clear where everybody loses [TS]

  so it's so didn't even more games [TS]

  exactly nobody wins him like a pretty [TS]

  was wasn't I yeah yeah he did say that [TS]

  you enter that it was a lonely he had [TS]

  but it was a very pro-america book even [TS]

  after you can't you can't stop us with [TS]

  your nuclear weapons will be five guys [TS]

  in the Florida Keys will laugh at you [TS]

  exactly Ivan until the radiation [TS]

  Clarence cloud drifts over and killed [TS]

  yeah yeah well it's the sequel it's much [TS]

  more depressing [TS]

  John do you have any I was trying to [TS]

  think of the weirdest apocalypse short [TS]

  story I read and I i know the story but [TS]

  I don't know the title author anything [TS]

  about it and actually I also search [TS]

  toured extensively before the show and [TS]

  totally can't but maybe Jason you've [TS]

  read it uh it was very short story and [TS]

  it was in one of those collections i [TS]

  think it's a bunch of people who are in [TS]

  this old house and it's snowing and at [TS]

  one point someone goes out into the snow [TS]

  and then gets ripped into bloody shreds [TS]

  and no one knows what it's about and [TS]

  it's a retreat back into the house and [TS]

  like the radio they're not getting radio [TS]

  signals anymore and just snow is still [TS]

  in the entire planet up and they're all [TS]

  trapped in this house and people keep [TS]

  dying gory deaths and it turns out this [TS]

  is weird [TS]

  invisible snow snake dragon monster is [TS]

  killing people and also having sex with [TS]

  them during any bells anybody there [TS]

  after he kills them did during usually I [TS]

  oh god it's very it's very very strange [TS]

  if you first you start to reading like [TS]

  it's a horror story where there's a [TS]

  monster on the loose the second like [TS]

  it's science fiction because the end of [TS]

  the world civilization is breaking down [TS]

  and I i like the idea of people being [TS]

  trapped in a house that was kind of one [TS]

  of those you know people going crazy [TS]

  trapped in one spot the apocalypse virus [TS]

  know is very interesting to me or just [TS]

  like well it's not stopping snowing but [TS]

  you know what what happens now we're [TS]

  just gonna be buried in snow and strange [TS]

  invisible magic ghost sex dragon [TS]

  monsters [TS]

  so that was the most interesting [TS]

  apocalyptic had never seen that if the [TS]

  snow won't get you the invisible dragon [TS]

  monsters will [TS]

  yes I and I think Nick and telling let [TS]

  me tell you that is not an easy story to [TS]

  go before [TS]

  yeah I know that but then the more sort [TS]

  of a mainstream stuff i'll just go back [TS]

  to my Steven catalog and and pick out a [TS]

  some favorites versus the long walk i [TS]

  always liked is a pretty simple premise [TS]

  apocalypse the short story and that has [TS]

  anyone read The Long Walk is that [TS]

  familiar to anyone know any Lisa while [TS]

  the premises that it's one of these [TS]

  nonsensical contest sort of like The [TS]

  Hunger Games where they don't explain or [TS]

  anything like that because the short [TS]

  story and a bumpy ride it yeah people [TS]

  get together and you walk when you stop [TS]

  walking the shoot you [TS]

  yes and the lab the last one not shot [TS]

  wins and it's all that story is not much [TS]

  of a promise right but you know it's [TS]

  like ya know because it's it's it's this [TS]

  wonderful internal story and it's [TS]

  basically about some people struggling [TS]

  against the constraints of both external [TS]

  society and the intrinsic biological [TS]

  limits that we all have to live with you [TS]

  know it's a great story that great and I [TS]

  was a great 413 or fine then the [TS]

  expanded version of that was the running [TS]

  man which but uh was that the actual [TS]

  star Stephen King story is the one that [TS]

  became that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie [TS]

  with the guy for families not a man yeah [TS]

  yeah well the short story was not quite [TS]

  as schlocky is that but that's what the [TS]

  The Naturalist reminded me of because [TS]

  you got zombies and you've got to [TS]

  preserve and you've got prisoners you [TS]

  just need cameras and audience and [TS]

  what's his name who's the family guy [TS]

  richard Dawson Richard glasses yeah [TS]

  now who loves you and who do you love [TS]

  that's all i needed to add to the [TS]

  naturalist there that I i do like short [TS]

  stories for apocalyptic stuff because [TS]

  really it's like I don't you don't need [TS]

  to explain how it happened i don't [TS]

  really know really know how it comes out [TS]

  just in the middle give me that part and [TS]

  so that works well for short stories I [TS]

  mean that we we mentioned on the Stephen [TS]

  King podcast last on the stand is really [TS]

  a an apocalyptic yeah that's that's a [TS]

  beginning middle and end thing but you [TS]

  need two thousand message of that and [TS]

  the beginning I mean I really love the [TS]

  beginning of the stand because really [TS]

  before the the the being plotted the [TS]

  street [TS]

  goes into gear he gets to spend some [TS]

  time destroying the world basically yeah [TS]

  that's not the good kind of apocalypse [TS]

  where you kill everybody because that's [TS]

  the key to the apocalypse is if you [TS]

  leave people around either alive or [TS]

  zombies then it's just bad and they all [TS]

  kill each other bad things happen to be [TS]

  killed pretty much everybody's like my [TS]

  separately right yeah except for like a [TS]

  couple hundred thousand people then you [TS]

  got something and especially if you know [TS]

  you didn't destroy everything there's no [TS]

  radiation there's no famine and there's [TS]

  no no diseases like everyone alive is [TS]

  immune [TS]

  that's pretty good he had the best [TS]

  premise for end of the world but you're [TS]

  like yeah no no problem [TS]

  nothing's really broken everything's [TS]

  here why can't we live like a civil [TS]

  society oh it's that you know well the [TS]

  the guy changes into a raven maybe put a [TS]

  damper on there that's why tell me [TS]

  something i had to that I wanted to [TS]

  bring up one hellish road one is here [TS]

  when everyone is Earth by David Brin [TS]

  which it is not a great book [TS]

  oh my fuck now oh my god it does feature [TS]

  my a very funny thing which is the plot [TS]

  is basically some scientists create a [TS]

  black hole and moves it drops into the [TS]

  center of the earth and begins consuming [TS]

  the earth slowly I'll do it I what [TS]

  you're gonna do it science [TS]

  he's got a savage computer hacker on one [TS]

  side and the gay hypothesis loving [TS]

  hippie on the other and it all works [TS]

  oh yeah and turns out the world doesn't [TS]

  add bicycle wacky stages and turtles [TS]

  into the like all because then just and [TS]

  that's what brings only have you heard [TS]

  the husband James it's black holes all [TS]

  the way down Johnny I have not read the [TS]

  postman ok that's his really that's his [TS]

  dark matter that is I want to disturb [TS]

  but I just like the idea that that the [TS]

  movie that will seminal hope we so we [TS]

  made a black hole the good news good [TS]

  news figured out how to make a black [TS]

  hole bad news going to consume the earth [TS]

  sorry we got a good eye and I'm gonna [TS]

  like when worlds collide it's like I got [TS]

  a rocket i'm leaving bye see ya takin [TS]

  the other the other 1i want to mention i [TS]

  think i mentioned this in a previous [TS]

  podcast it's it's a the second book in a [TS]

  series by john barnes the first book is [TS]

  a million open doors which I really [TS]

  loved about actually been [TS]

  currently-reading that I like this whole [TS]

  series you gave me this series my [TS]

  birthday one year i think i did well the [TS]

  second book is really depressing haha [TS]

  it's called Earth made of glass dad's [TS]

  about to in this in this series [TS]

  different cultures of current and [TS]

  extinct actually cultures are seated [TS]

  across all these habitable planets in in [TS]

  in space so you have these various [TS]

  cultures and and this one planet has [TS]

  these two essentially incompatible [TS]

  culture sharing it [TS]

  there-there tamil zand there are [TS]

  reconstituted basically Mayan cold and [TS]

  they're at each other's throats and the [TS]

  main characters in this in this series [TS]

  are basically like interstellar [TS]

  diplomats the the premise is really [TS]

  clever the idea is that it used to be [TS]

  interstellar travel took hundreds of [TS]

  years and so these all these cultures [TS]

  were essentially completely cut off [TS]

  which is why they sort of built the [TS]

  built society the way they did where [TS]

  they have these different cultures going [TS]

  and going out to run on their own except [TS]

  inconvenient somebody creates a device [TS]

  that lets you step through a portal from [TS]

  one planet to another and it causes huge [TS]

  culture clashes and its really an [TS]

  interesting idea anyway earth made a [TS]

  made a blast these diplomats come to try [TS]

  and settle the dispute between these two [TS]

  cultures and it doesn't go well and and [TS]

  and I i think that i think the book is [TS]

  worth reading anyway but i'm going to [TS]

  spoil it here which is essentially at [TS]

  the end they all launched like they're [TS]

  gamma 1 gamma ray beams and I they it's [TS]

  unclear but the diplomats who escaped [TS]

  right at the very end it believe that [TS]

  nobody is left alive and if there is [TS]

  anybody left alive there are very few [TS]

  people left alive these to get a lion [TS]

  culture goodbye town yeah kill each [TS]

  other they could date they they refused [TS]

  to its brinkmanship right they hate each [TS]

  other they refused to negotiate with [TS]

  each other you can draw the parallel [TS]

  with all sorts of different examples on [TS]

  modern-day planet earth and in the end [TS]

  they kill each other because there's [TS]

  nothing they will not live with each [TS]

  other so instead they died together and [TS]

  it's so depressing [TS]

  yet brilliant i thought it was really [TS]

  great that he went there and then you [TS]

  spend this entire book with these [TS]

  diplomats trying to stave off [TS]

  annihilation of this planet and they [TS]

  fail [TS]

  yeah anyway so earth made of glass [TS]

  i recommend it if you like it if you [TS]

  like it dark and that's a good series [TS]

  that John Barnes yeah i'm going to read [TS]

  that and I Fallon trivia the name of the [TS]

  book that i was describing its lat [TS]

  alas Babylon I was gonna guess that an [TS]

  hour because i read that book when I was [TS]

  anyway you were describing like Jesus [TS]

  sounds familiar to me I wonder if the [TS]

  last Babylon like I only think that [TS]

  because that's like the only book i read [TS]

  in school that I can remember but it [TS]

  actually is it is in fact you were right [TS]

  yeah yeah we can read that in like [TS]

  middle school or something and I had to [TS]

  read that in class [TS]

  oh interesting and the America one yes I [TS]

  i was gonna say that sounds a little bit [TS]

  like on the beach [TS]

  yeah that one to which is a [TS]

  post-apocalyptic Australian [TS]

  post-apocalyptic nukes all about the [TS]

  nukes [TS]

  yeah yeah australia all about the [TS]

  beaches even after the apocalypse [TS]

  still it means them i'm not the other it [TS]

  all wikipedia is also reminded me [TS]

  probably my favorite apocalyptic story [TS]

  which i completely forgot make fall by I [TS]

  seguro [TS]

  oh that's that's funny because that's [TS]

  like student that I astronomical [TS]

  apocalypse right is good [TS]

  yeah we are in 2012 that's a good [TS]

  old-fashioned mayan calendar pockets [TS]

  right it is true [TS]

  yeah they're obviously planet is always [TS]

  illuminated except when is so it has [TS]

  like three sons or something and every [TS]

  5,000 years or something that they all [TS]

  eclipse at the same time and what [TS]

  happened he goes crazy everybody goes [TS]

  crazy except for the the astronomers who [TS]

  are locked in the observatory and the [TS]

  you know by the end you certainly are [TS]

  dead and it was turned into an awful [TS]

  which was less successful but any other [TS]

  ends any other worlds we should end the [TS]

  hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy is [TS]

  really about the world and the first 20 [TS]

  pages and yeah [TS]

  sherry sherry tempers novel the gate to [TS]

  women's country supposed apocalyptic [TS]

  novel where it picks up presumably [TS]

  believe in not radical feminists are [TS]

  responsible for the resurgence of [TS]

  civilization [TS]

  and it's a good it's it's it's it's it's [TS]

  not a science fiction in the radical [TS]

  feminist tradition of the nineteen [TS]

  seventies rather what she does is she [TS]

  examines the kind of societies that are [TS]

  likely to come up if you do have a group [TS]

  of women survival is to get together and [TS]

  decide these are the rules of our new [TS]

  society going forth and it presents a [TS]

  pretty balanced view of of both the pros [TS]

  and the cons and feels pretty [TS]

  realistically with that with the climate [TS]

  issues you know what it would be like to [TS]

  have to live in a world that's [TS]

  effectively enduring nuclear winter [TS]

  it'sit's and it's one of temper can be a [TS]

  hard one to get into because as she's [TS]

  gotten deeper into her writing career [TS]

  like she's really began to flow on her [TS]

  to hobbyhorses big time in her too big [TS]

  automatic cause celeb RR restrict [TS]

  repressive gender roles in society both [TS]

  male and female and environmental [TS]

  degradation but but here that it's a [TS]

  really light touch and it's a nice [TS]

  little story and the kind of thing you [TS]

  could probably get to high school class [TS]

  and it would make them think and it's [TS]

  it's it's a very gentle post-apocalyptic [TS]

  book of that makes sense in the [TS]

  seventies when the there were successful [TS]

  disaster movies on a disaster movies [TS]

  like the towering inferno and and an [TS]

  airport there were some science fiction [TS]

  airport there were some science fiction [TS]

  shouldn't disaster books I I most [TS]

  notably i'm thinking of Lucifer's hammer [TS]

  by Jerry Pournelle and larry niven which [TS]

  is about a a comet smacking into the [TS]

  earth but they also did and then they [TS]

  did footfall which is very much [TS]

  Lucifer's hammer except what if the [TS]

  comet was pushed by alien who I but i [TS]

  enjoyed both those books just in the [TS]

  sense like really enjoyed the beginning [TS]

  of the stand where it's kind of fun to [TS]

  see the authors portraying just a [TS]

  complete devastation of of us of society [TS]

  yeah but in a fantasy sort of way so [TS]

  it's not as as depressing as something [TS]

  like the road which might be a little [TS]

  more realistic and i want to mention y [TS]

  the last man the comic which we did a [TS]

  podcast about which is about sort of [TS]

  half an apocalypse is all the men died [TS]

  except 11 but none of the women die but [TS]

  society is then has to deal with the [TS]

  fact that there are that the half the [TS]

  population is gone and and that's [TS]

  actually handled that's a lot of fun in [TS]

  that [TS]

  yes and it's a half of the population [TS]

  that actually managed transit [TS]

  infrastructure so and run large scale [TS]

  and large-scale agriculture so the [TS]

  sexism of society is is amusingly [TS]

  inferred right by the back that all [TS]

  these jobs have to be picked up because [TS]

  what what you know what we're with what [TS]

  women in positions of power and where [TS]

  were they not involved so so you are as [TS]

  you as you figure out how they deal with [TS]

  it you you were you get to infer from [TS]

  that just have sex the our society he is [TS]

  now and you find out why israel in [TS]

  Australia are going to end up ruling the [TS]

  season when the event happened with is [TS]

  where the inevitable wide elastic [TS]

  apocalypse it's gonna happen [TS]

  well miss you guys only Scott know [TS]

  that's right made alive in my middle [TS]

  name is why ya mean these books did make [TS]

  me not want to survive an apocalypse I [TS]

  don't know what people continue if that [TS]

  have if the road of population had dream [TS]

  right [TS]

  I'm not I'm not I'm not going out there [TS]

  and trying to survive for years a [TS]

  apocalypse i'm going to want to die [TS]

  quickly now I think a Comic Con last [TS]

  year they asked Robert Kirkman what he [TS]

  would do if the walking dead zombie [TS]

  apocalypse really happened and he said [TS]

  he'd hang himself he said I'm not [TS]

  interested in living in that world the [TS]

  next it's another biker I could have [TS]

  been inside water virginia which is the [TS]

  home to Fort Eustis an army base and [TS]

  handles logistics and it's also home to [TS]

  the Norfolk Naval Base in langley air [TS]

  force base and this is back in the [TS]

  nineteen eighties when we were all [TS]

  terribly terribly worried about nuclear [TS]

  weapons and we're talking about it over [TS]

  dinner one night and i asked my dad you [TS]

  know it is it possible that in debt my [TS]

  dad says cheerfully hobby were one of [TS]

  the first areas to be attacked and I [TS]

  said we could get I think we get in the [TS]

  car and go to the mountains that he goes [TS]

  no we're gonna get lawn chairs and we're [TS]

  going to sit out and watch the bombs [TS]

  fall because you don't want to live [TS]

  through the aftermath let's go out a big [TS]

  blaze of glory and that was the world [TS]

  and that was the world view that my [TS]

  parents and curtains going up which is [TS]

  if there's going to be an apocalypse [TS]

  type of event just just just go in the [TS]

  first wave there's there's no point in [TS]

  living 360 with morgan freeman comes on [TS]

  your TV and says we're going to be hit [TS]

  by a comet but we've got a system of [TS]

  caves to protect that don't go to the [TS]

  caves i go i get my surfboard and I go [TS]

  hang out on a balcony and wait for the [TS]

  tidal wave to come in and I got hanging [TS]

  ten [TS]

  yeah you guys can all die but i'm going [TS]

  to survive [TS]

  John will survive because like see that [TS]

  that's the problem with these messages a [TS]

  comment it's an astronomical event than [TS]

  you then you just don't mean does it [TS]

  really matter where you are like the [TS]

  whole parts toast atmosphere gets blown [TS]

  off fine but anything man-made even [TS]

  nuclear war it's a big planet you know [TS]

  it like it's probably not going to be [TS]

  used it's there but it's gonna be [TS]

  somebody like in the Himalayas was been [TS]

  living there is whole life for you know [TS]

  who knows where in some jungle somewhere [TS]

  area that it's a very very very big [TS]

  planet and we think about all is the end [TS]

  of the world but really most of the [TS]

  stories like it's the end of the [TS]

  population centers in the United States [TS]

  really but some dude in North Dakota's [TS]

  but no TV no radio will notice for like [TS]

  seven years probably you know I mean [TS]

  it's big mighty planet big planet i was [TS]

  also watching oddly enough Doomsday [TS]

  Preppers which is a new show that [TS]

  started watching that is better should [TS]

  be seriously it's just addictive making [TS]

  up these show titles now you don't know [TS]

  no no I cereal bowl fillers next I know [TS]

  but that's why I have a piece that I'm [TS]

  working on for TV about how dmca [TS]

  Preppers they're basically just like [TS]

  purpose-driven horrible murders they are [TS]

  holy purpose driven orders that I [TS]

  haven't I have admit an omission which [TS]

  is we had in our one in one of our barns [TS]

  on the property that i grew up on out in [TS]

  the countryside we had rashes my father [TS]

  purchased rack end-of-the-world rations [TS]

  so that again we would survive and be [TS]

  miserable for one together you do no no [TS]

  it was like it was like fallout shelter [TS]

  yeah offer so for how many weeks do the [TS]

  math and say assuming all this food is [TS]

  good and it's edible and what was you [TS]

  know I was pretty young i imagine that [TS]

  they would just you know where bro [TS]

  slow-roasted me or something [TS]

  no I'm good just in supplemental protein [TS]

  that's one of the key of the apocalypse [TS]

  is everybody else has to die because i [TS]

  clear the roads are not clear the roads [TS]

  literally but figuratively clears the [TS]

  way for you to then traveled to [TS]

  someplace that's more hospitable that [TS]

  you know you're not fighting for [TS]

  supplies with people you know you like a [TS]

  man who has his action plan in place for [TS]

  your pocket you've got your bug-out play [TS]

  out step on everybody but me and like 10 [TS]

  of the people dies step to a party time [TS]

  you get to pick the 10 of the important [TS]

  question that is that actually that's [TS]

  one of my favorite things about [TS]

  apocalyptic stories is when the [TS]

  apocalypse is complete like John says [TS]

  there's almost nobody left [TS]

  that's actually great because then you [TS]

  have the scenes where people just walk [TS]

  through the streets and piston and and [TS]

  they've got new their choice of there [TS]

  like wearing big jewelry and when it is [TS]

  yours and little girl little girl used [TS]

  to I used to fantasize about living the [TS]

  Smithsonian i was going to survive the [TS]

  apocalypse about moving to the [TS]

  Smithsonian so that i could spend all [TS]

  day with the dinosaurs and hang out with [TS]

  a NASA capsule don't need to kill each [TS]

  other if they're only 15 of you and [TS]

  you've got the resources of all of its [TS]

  spread out spread out everyone gets a [TS]

  continent [TS]

  it's beautiful and not even just like [TS]

  the maze that this beautiful places that [TS]

  you would normally get to see that you [TS]

  know as long as you've got your your [TS]

  your needs provided for you which you [TS]

  would easily for life just from the [TS]

  stuff that's laying around [TS]

  you can you can set yourself up in [TS]

  Yosemite have the best view in the world [TS]

  every year you can go to a different [TS]

  continent it's the whole planet is yours [TS]

  how do you get to the other continents [TS]

  you walk here is you know it's it take [TS]

  your time and the answer is you would [TS]

  you teach yourself to fly there you go [TS]

  go to friends and 10 and you go to [TS]

  France right exactly going to friends as [TS]

  they say oh you don't need that reminds [TS]

  me of the the wonderful Twilight Zone [TS]

  episode where you know uh everybody dies [TS]

  you guys finally has enough time to meet [TS]

  at last one of his class and he breaks [TS]

  of classes am i paranoid dad used to [TS]

  tell me that one of the cautionary tale [TS]

  when I was growing up [TS]

  true always have a backup pair of [TS]

  glasses that's what we learned [TS]

  yes yeah but if everybody's again he [TS]

  could have any idea or through his [TS]

  prescription you can see them to the [TS]

  optometrist he could see well enough to [TS]

  find a optometrist and go through their [TS]

  lens is one by one that that's the story [TS]

  they don't tell you is that this [TS]

  Meredith gets up off his knees wanders [TS]

  down the street to the optometrist find [TS]

  some monocle and is he is a happy man [TS]

  with a monocle reading for the rest of [TS]

  his life [TS]

  they don't tell you that story the [TS]

  monocle the man with the blood happy [TS]

  monocle man it's a happy apocalypse yeah [TS]

  it's for everyone and everybody has [TS]

  their own continent [TS]

  this is great I feeling cheered up now [TS]

  I'm so glad that we had this a edition [TS]

  of the incomparable book club where we [TS]

  talk about the end of the world and and [TS]

  made it made it a positive it's just [TS]

  like John siracusa to turn my frown [TS]

  upside down [TS]

  that's right thank you for that and you [TS]

  will survive will all be doing at your [TS]

  hand but you survived sometimes John can [TS]

  harvest his hatred of everything for [TS]

  good [TS]

  well you can have my stuff about well I [TS]

  don't even need your permission you're [TS]

  not going to be here there are plenty of [TS]

  canned goods in my apartment so oh my [TS]

  god you turn into zombies are going to [TS]

  have to move to North Dakota's alright [TS]

  so we look up [TS]

  oh you have to do some experimentation [TS]

  on us to find out [TS]

  all right i'm gonna close up the [TS]

  incomparable book club for this time [TS]

  before we go we're going to have a new [TS]

  new edition of the book club coming up [TS]

  and we are it's very unlike us we've [TS]

  actually planned ahead [TS]

  the next topic for the incomparable book [TS]

  club we're calling it it's magic [TS]

  oh can you feel the magic we're gonna [TS]

  we're going to read the Night Circus by [TS]

  Erin Morgenstern Morgenstern i think yes [TS]

  Morgenstern not s Morgenstern that's the [TS]

  princess bride the Night Circus by Erin [TS]

  Morgenstern the magicians by lev [TS]

  grossman I is also on the agenda that's [TS]

  a magic book and where we may talk about [TS]

  although it's really large and if you [TS]

  don't have time to read it that's ok but [TS]

  we'll probably talk about Jonathan [TS]

  strange and mr Norell which is another [TS]

  magic you had a book i felt that these [TS]

  books all sort of seemed interrelated [TS]

  and so I thought we would talk about [TS]

  them in in bulk to save time and I I [TS]

  think they're all good in their own way [TS]

  and they're all very interesting so [TS]

  we're gonna that will be in three or [TS]

  four weeks we'll talk about magic and [TS]

  the night circus the magicians and [TS]

  Jonathan strange and mr Turner l and [TS]

  perhaps other magical books too but [TS]

  until then i would like to thank in this [TS]

  week's book club participants Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser thank you as always for being [TS]

  here and being part of our end of the [TS]

  world conversation however the end of [TS]

  the world is there i am are you yes [TS]

  good for you good for you i may skip it [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you for for [TS]

  participating in this apocalypse [TS]

  I feel fine that's good i was waiting [TS]

  somebody had to do it [TS]

  whoever at Scott in the REM reference [TS]

  pick you I had Scott I with yay and then [TS]

  John syracuse thank you for [TS]

  participating and we you will survive [TS]

  i'll save a spot in the top of the [TS]

  Empire State Building for you Jason [TS]

  I'll I'll come there Walker from the [TS]

  Himalayas and minor I'm take your time [TS]

  right you and lots of reading this truck [TS]

  I can do along the way with my monocle [TS]

  pack your model i will i will hold if I [TS]

  forgot my monocle that wouldn't be sad [TS]

  it was walking back [TS]

  that would be that was the first draft [TS]

  at twilight zone episode he loses his [TS]

  monocle [TS]

  yeah alright until next time unless the [TS]

  world ends in the meantime I suppose for [TS]

  the uncomfortable i'm jason still thanks [TS]

  for listening [TS]

  [Music] [TS]