The Incomparable

78: Clones and Telepaths vs. Love


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 78 [TS]

00:00:08   februari 2012 [TS]

00:00:11   we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

00:00:13   I'm Jason smell your host and it's time [TS]

00:00:15   for another edition of our comic book [TS]

00:00:17   club and this love is in the air can you [TS]

00:00:19   feel like you smell it does love have a [TS]

00:00:20   smell if it does I hope you can smell it [TS]

00:00:22   love is in the air it's a that time of [TS]

00:00:25   year valentines day coming around and [TS]

00:00:28   who better to talk about love and [TS]

00:00:31   relationships and things about the human [TS]

00:00:34   heart than the members of our comic book [TS]

00:00:36   club because nothing says love like the [TS]

00:00:39   comic books onra so joining me here are [TS]

00:00:42   two very loving people to their own [TS]

00:00:45   spouses and not to each other around [TS]

00:00:48   that came out wrong jason reitman hi [TS]

00:00:52   Jason [TS]

00:00:52   hello thanks for being here thanks for [TS]

00:00:54   having me and Lisa Schmeisser hello [TS]

00:00:56   hello [TS]

00:00:58   attention comic book readers this [TS]

00:01:00   podcast contains spoilers for many [TS]

00:01:02   different comic book series so if you're [TS]

00:01:05   afraid that we're going to ruin let's [TS]

00:01:07   say the plot of invincible or many other [TS]

00:01:10   comics like I'm about to spoil the [TS]

00:01:13   people on the podcast so this is why I'm [TS]

00:01:14   warning you now go to the incomparable [TS]

00:01:16   calm and look at the show notes for this [TS]

00:01:19   episode and we will list everything that [TS]

00:01:22   we're spoiling and if you are afraid you [TS]

00:01:25   can just not listen but we think you'll [TS]

00:01:27   like it if you do listen [TS]

00:01:28   alright with that out of the way yes our [TS]

00:01:30   topic today and the comic book club is [TS]

00:01:32   abroad one instead of talking about one [TS]

00:01:34   book or one series we're going to talk [TS]

00:01:37   about comic book romance you know [TS]

00:01:40   interesting it suffers from a lot of the [TS]

00:01:43   same issues as comic book story telling [TS]

00:01:45   in general you have long running series [TS]

00:01:48   you have long-running relationships you [TS]

00:01:50   have relationships that come and go in [TS]

00:01:52   various combinations something we were [TS]

00:01:56   just saying before we started recording [TS]

00:01:57   is Jason you mentioned it's actually [TS]

00:02:01   kinda hard to find a role model relation [TS]

00:02:04   reasonable relationships real reasonable [TS]

00:02:06   realistic positive relationships and [TS]

00:02:09   comics relatable couples yeah right yeah [TS]

00:02:13   it'sit's it is and if you go back a well [TS]

00:02:17   we just want to jump right into it that [TS]

00:02:19   probably the poster child of of bad [TS]

00:02:21   relationships with a clear example how [TS]

00:02:25   this Superman injury also i was [TS]

00:02:27   considered that was like a clip like a [TS]

00:02:29   close number two but i will get a [TS]

00:02:31   daredevil with everybody order double [TS]

00:02:33   with Elektra your double with everybody [TS]

00:02:35   yeah I don't think it actually started [TS]

00:02:36   with Elektra he you know fell in love [TS]

00:02:39   with this woman turns out she was deadly [TS]

00:02:42   assassin happens they thought they loved [TS]

00:02:46   I mean that part's pretty close to real [TS]

00:02:47   relationships and died and she's not [TS]

00:02:51   directed ya came back tied but that you [TS]

00:02:54   know some often happens in the Marvel [TS]

00:02:56   Universe it done oh yeah and it turns [TS]

00:02:58   out uh Daredevils an interesting [TS]

00:03:01   character when he's suffering so having [TS]

00:03:04   him fall in love and then killing his [TS]

00:03:05   woman repeatedly I made yeah good sales [TS]

00:03:08   and good stories good drama [TS]

00:03:10   sure so they then [TS]

00:03:11   again with Karen page which was like the [TS]

00:03:13   next girlfriend and but with her she [TS]

00:03:16   became a drug addict / pornstar then [TS]

00:03:18   maybe what you got the HIV I was one of [TS]

00:03:21   them got HIV in there too wasn't enough [TS]

00:03:23   for her merely to be constantly [TS]

00:03:24   imperiled by his roster of enemy she [TS]

00:03:26   also got an incurable virus and I can't [TS]

00:03:29   remember which one right i don't think [TS]

00:03:31   it was Karen page [TS]

00:03:32   although she was a porn star of course [TS]

00:03:33   for the drug money before she was killed [TS]

00:03:36   and I was doing the born-again his [TS]

00:03:38   storyline which was also by Frank Miller [TS]

00:03:40   and the other hand is not you go to for [TS]

00:03:44   your functional comic-book romantic and [TS]

00:03:46   then from there there was a typhoid mary [TS]

00:03:47   who ended up being a bad guy and then [TS]

00:03:49   there was the last one they marry [TS]

00:03:52   daredevil off to another blind woman [TS]

00:03:55   could do charitable blind [TS]

00:03:57   yeah Mia mhm can't remember her last [TS]

00:03:59   name and her one of his enemies drove [TS]

00:04:03   her insane and she had to go into an [TS]

00:04:05   insane asylum like completely catatonic [TS]

00:04:08   so the unlucky in love daredevil right [TS]

00:04:11   all or all of these women are unlucky [TS]

00:04:13   just cannot marry or date him or he's [TS]

00:04:15   just bad news [TS]

00:04:16   yeah it's like Scott summer you never [TS]

00:04:18   ever date Scott Summers customers [TS]

00:04:20   Cyclops from the x-men ya series of you [TS]

00:04:22   wasn't lonely eight telepaths for people [TS]

00:04:25   who resembled telepathy previously [TS]

00:04:26   learned a lot of the odd thing about GM [TS]

00:04:28   soon as Jean Grey who was Phoenix and [TS]

00:04:30   then she died and that was very sad then [TS]

00:04:32   there's apple and a red and they went i [TS]

00:04:33   wrote that down and they went like a [TS]

00:04:35   good ten issues before bringing back a [TS]

00:04:37   duplicate of jean grey mantle and dryer [TS]

00:04:39   right which like guys can again this is [TS]

00:04:41   a recurring theme canna comic book [TS]

00:04:43   industry show any restraint and telling [TS]

00:04:45   a story in leaving things alone for a [TS]

00:04:46   little while the answer is no you know [TS]

00:04:48   if they can wait a year if you're lucky [TS]

00:04:50   they'll win right Jean Grey was left [TS]

00:04:52   dead for a significant amount of time [TS]

00:04:54   right but the Madeleine prior thing [TS]

00:04:56   happened right almost instantaneously [TS]

00:04:58   yeah comparatively speaking out and they [TS]

00:05:01   got married had a baby and then gene [TS]

00:05:04   comes back from the dead and he totally [TS]

00:05:05   dismantling it it like that and whereas [TS]

00:05:08   gone yet completely nevermind the fact [TS]

00:05:10   that he had a family and children with [TS]

00:05:12   her it was oh my wife is back from the [TS]

00:05:13   dead have fun clone of my wife who is [TS]

00:05:17   actually I can't remember the plot to [TS]

00:05:18   permutations one of them is that in this [TS]

00:05:20   cast on the floor of the sea that brings [TS]

00:05:23   us to the inferno store [TS]

00:05:24   aligned they would you can get nicely [TS]

00:05:26   collected now on amazon or your local [TS]

00:05:28   comic store where it was revealed that [TS]

00:05:30   Madeline prior was a clone done guys mr. [TS]

00:05:35   sinister yes the brilliantly tire titled [TS]

00:05:38   mr. sinister and learn and then she went [TS]

00:05:41   on certain mrs. sinister named their [TS]

00:05:43   child they didn't really know what was [TS]

00:05:46   gonna happen to him it turns out he was [TS]

00:05:47   going to leave to life neighbor hippies [TS]

00:05:49   and we're like he'll find his own path [TS]

00:05:50   exactly you'll find him so mr. [TS]

00:05:52   technically his first name he you know [TS]

00:05:54   they were inspired by mr. mr. the band [TS]

00:05:57   mister mister sinister you right now the [TS]

00:05:59   wow it i had a conversation actually [TS]

00:06:02   with his broken cleanse and learn to fly [TS]

00:06:05   well it's really complicated [TS]

00:06:06   relationships i think that's what we've [TS]

00:06:08   learned yeah read it happens a lot [TS]

00:06:10   because they had that whole scroll thing [TS]

00:06:12   with Hawkeye and his dead wife [TS]

00:06:14   Mockingbird whom he thought came back [TS]

00:06:16   from the dead and turned out she was [TS]

00:06:17   really scroll an undercover scrolling [TS]

00:06:20   all right Scott with anyone came we [TS]

00:06:21   didn't even talk to Scott Summers ended [TS]

00:06:23   up with the gonna ask the white queen [TS]

00:06:25   right who was bad but it was good [TS]

00:06:27   it's still hanging with with gene [TS]

00:06:29   because he was telepathically cheating [TS]

00:06:31   on gene with emma frost that's what [TS]

00:06:33   again ok so tell me one out there beware [TS]

00:06:35   of telepathy and clones complicated [TS]

00:06:38   relationship knows why he's telepathic [TS]

00:06:39   women date Scott Summers because if you [TS]

00:06:42   can read his mind you know what he's [TS]

00:06:44   thinking and you know it's not going to [TS]

00:06:45   end well he's very complex and they [TS]

00:06:47   really enjoy that like a rogue yeah [TS]

00:06:50   are there speaking of whom is the rogue [TS]

00:06:52   and gambit capo it yet and I like all [TS]

00:06:56   three of us of simultaneously roll our [TS]

00:06:57   eyes so that one can truly it's it's so [TS]

00:07:00   here's the thing about these did the [TS]

00:07:01   these couples come and go and some of [TS]

00:07:04   them keep coming back like like like [TS]

00:07:06   Scott gene but a lot of them are you [TS]

00:07:09   know it is the soap opera thing which I [TS]

00:07:11   said our earlier before we started the [TS]

00:07:13   comic books are I've said this before [TS]

00:07:15   their soap operas they are continuing [TS]

00:07:17   stories in the same minute soap operas [TS]

00:07:19   are and stable relationships generally [TS]

00:07:22   not entirely but generally are not like [TS]

00:07:24   to buy that kind of drama because they [TS]

00:07:26   want to keep pairing people off and [TS]

00:07:28   breaking them up and having affairs and [TS]

00:07:30   all this kind of drama and so you've got [TS]

00:07:31   a few relationships that seemed like [TS]

00:07:33   more like bedrock [TS]

00:07:35   well right now we're just talking about [TS]

00:07:36   the mainstream publishers marvel in DC [TS]

00:07:38   what I've noticed in my reading is [TS]

00:07:40   nowhere near as fast as Jason so this is [TS]

00:07:42   a tremendous caveat is what I've noticed [TS]

00:07:44   this in smaller imprints or imprints [TS]

00:07:47   that aren't supporting the types and [TS]

00:07:48   flight sonra is you're more likely to [TS]

00:07:50   find a relationship that doesn't have [TS]

00:07:53   all the storm and drawn of of a high [TS]

00:07:55   school dating Club well but there's [TS]

00:07:56   realism injected into that bad [TS]

00:07:58   definitely more heightened superhero [TS]

00:08:00   comics relationship maybe don't although [TS]

00:08:02   there are some stable ish relationships [TS]

00:08:04   or have been yeah [TS]

00:08:06   in the superhero comics there they're [TS]

00:08:07   the exception i think more than i would [TS]

00:08:09   have to go out there for the the big [TS]

00:08:11   elephant around all of this is that a [TS]

00:08:14   lot of that superhero stuff is just [TS]

00:08:17   poorly written [TS]

00:08:18   yeah and the idea of if you take [TS]

00:08:20   somebody's girlfriend or take the main [TS]

00:08:22   characters significant other and torture [TS]

00:08:25   them [TS]

00:08:26   that's just easy drama women in [TS]

00:08:27   refrigerators women referring to women [TS]

00:08:29   refrigerator problem it's it's angry [TS]

00:08:31   baby are easy drama and if you're a [TS]

00:08:34   mediocre writer [TS]

00:08:36   it's like putting a guy in a Nazi pseudo [TS]

00:08:38   bad guy you know it's not this is what [TS]

00:08:39   they did with the green with the green [TS]

00:08:41   arrow Black Canary wedding is and this [TS]

00:08:44   made me furious because i was a huge [TS]

00:08:47   huge birds of prey fan and they had done [TS]

00:08:49   a really fantastic job over the course [TS]

00:08:51   of birds of prey Gail Simone done this [TS]

00:08:53   wonderful job of rehabbing the Black [TS]

00:08:54   Canary character and turning her into [TS]

00:08:56   somebody who is a plausible leader in [TS]

00:08:59   battle and a plausible leader of people [TS]

00:09:00   in the Justice League and she goes to [TS]

00:09:03   Mary Oliver Queen and I think one of the [TS]

00:09:05   last Simone issues are one of the first [TS]

00:09:07   I want the Adventist I'm not sure [TS]

00:09:10   anyway there's there's one issue [TS]

00:09:11   birds-of-prey were friends basically [TS]

00:09:13   stage an intervention with Dinah you and [TS]

00:09:16   this guy have a really really bad [TS]

00:09:18   history are you sure you want to get [TS]

00:09:19   into this and she just blows them off [TS]

00:09:21   and then you go into the Judd Winick [TS]

00:09:22   scripted wedding where it turns out that [TS]

00:09:25   she doesn't marry green arrow she [TS]

00:09:26   marries his she marries a bad cough a [TS]

00:09:29   clone [TS]

00:09:29   no more or less it's a bad guy who [TS]

00:09:31   morphs into green arrow and tries to [TS]

00:09:33   kill her on the honeymoon night it [TS]

00:09:34   happened it's and then what you're going [TS]

00:09:36   to do the divorce rate is very high and [TS]

00:09:37   i miss you [TS]

00:09:38   Marvel and peep about that because i [TS]

00:09:40   thought you know you've got almost 30 [TS]

00:09:42   years of history with these two [TS]

00:09:43   characters why would you [TS]

00:09:45   is it really worth of that this the [TS]

00:09:48   temporary spike in sales 22 [TS]

00:09:51   spike this on the wedding night it it [TS]

00:09:53   kind of speaks to this real adolescent [TS]

00:09:55   fear of all my god relationships oh my [TS]

00:09:57   god what did she ask me to do the dishes [TS]

00:09:59   so okay that is a perfect segue into [TS]

00:10:01   into the the accident I wanted to grind [TS]

00:10:04   in this podcast which is that some at [TS]

00:10:07   some point after about I think 15 years [TS]

00:10:10   of spider-man and he and he had his [TS]

00:10:12   girlfriend Gwen Stacy who was killed [TS]

00:10:14   which i think is the exception that [TS]

00:10:15   proves the rule right you can come up [TS]

00:10:16   with a few examples of of deaths that [TS]

00:10:18   were really shocking and basically [TS]

00:10:20   basically permanent and she's with his [TS]

00:10:23   girlfriend death in the Marvel Universe [TS]

00:10:24   right where the girlfriend that in up [TS]

00:10:26   yeah with a girlfriend in jeopardy was [TS]

00:10:29   done well and not cheaply but it is the [TS]

00:10:32   equivalent pretty shocking [TS]

00:10:34   yeah but uh but then so it after about [TS]

00:10:36   15 years maybe or 20 years of the [TS]

00:10:38   existence of spider-man he's got his [TS]

00:10:40   longtime girlfriend Mary Jane Watson and [TS]

00:10:42   there's a that they are they get married [TS]

00:10:45   and there's a whole event where they get [TS]

00:10:46   married in the comic strip and they get [TS]

00:10:47   married in the comic book and they do a [TS]

00:10:49   special issue and all that and what's [TS]

00:10:52   interesting about it is this is an [TS]

00:10:53   attempt to fundamentally change Peter [TS]

00:10:56   Parker from being this kind of kid who's [TS]

00:10:58   who's on the outs to being this young [TS]

00:11:00   adult who's struggling now he has to [TS]

00:11:03   struggle with his adult relationships [TS]

00:11:05   and try to have a job and have a wife [TS]

00:11:07   and have a family with being spider-man [TS]

00:11:08   so it's different but it's not it's not [TS]

00:11:11   it's different in the details but not [TS]

00:11:14   necessarily in the indie / she thinks [TS]

00:11:15   that goes for decades for decades and at [TS]

00:11:17   some point to reason that I thought of [TS]

00:11:19   this one leads to mention this is that [TS]

00:11:22   at some point the editor-in-chief Marvel [TS]

00:11:24   Comics said i don't think people want to [TS]

00:11:26   have spider-man be married he'd been [TS]

00:11:29   married i think at that point almost as [TS]

00:11:30   long as he's not been married before [TS]

00:11:31   that it was at the at over 20 haha [TS]

00:11:34   alright so but they're like oh kids can [TS]

00:11:36   identify with that we want to make him [TS]

00:11:37   single again and and so the only [TS]

00:11:39   forgetting how many adults read and so [TS]

00:11:41   they take this bedrock promising and and [TS]

00:11:43   and they do it plus i got ultimate [TS]

00:11:45   spider-man which they could you know [TS]

00:11:46   which is that old old Peter Parker kind [TS]

00:11:48   of storytelling they so they they been [TS]

00:11:53   badly execute this thing where there's a [TS]

00:11:54   deal with the devil made and they were [TS]

00:11:56   there like retro actively time bubbled [TS]

00:11:58   into not being married right count all [TS]

00:12:01   the divorce now you have to have a deal [TS]

00:12:03   with that divorce is too much of a [TS]

00:12:04   bummer [TS]

00:12:05   yeah i'm going to make it that they were [TS]

00:12:06   never married but what's interesting to [TS]

00:12:08   me about that is not mean we could and [TS]

00:12:10   it's been hard on at length about how [TS]

00:12:12   poorly that was executed and it was [TS]

00:12:14   really reads like somebody sent a memo [TS]

00:12:16   joe quesada send a memo saying do this [TS]

00:12:19   and then they did it and there was no [TS]

00:12:21   real reason story reason given [TS]

00:12:23   I I don't want to talk about that as [TS]

00:12:24   much as I want to talk about the [TS]

00:12:25   underlying motivation which was we have [TS]

00:12:28   a character who is in a stable [TS]

00:12:30   relatively I mean yes they're clone [TS]

00:12:32   sagas and she goes to the west coast for [TS]

00:12:34   modeling career and all that but [TS]

00:12:35   basically they were married for 20 years [TS]

00:12:37   in real-world time and somebody in a [TS]

00:12:41   position of authority said people don't [TS]

00:12:43   want to see that we don't want a stable [TS]

00:12:45   relationship with our character he's not [TS]

00:12:48   as interesting with a relationship that [TS]

00:12:50   the last we want to get rid of that and [TS]

00:12:52   i think the the thing that proves that's [TS]

00:12:55   not the case if you look at the get in [TS]

00:12:59   trade paperback again now the Cravens [TS]

00:13:01   last hunt which was the first storyline [TS]

00:13:04   that happened right after Peter Parker's [TS]

00:13:05   marriage to mary jane it was about a [TS]

00:13:09   long time villain Kraven the hunter [TS]

00:13:10   kidnap spider-man drugs him buries him [TS]

00:13:15   and then takes his identity dresses up [TS]

00:13:18   as spider-man and then goes and beats [TS]

00:13:20   one of spider-man's other villains that [TS]

00:13:22   spider-man has never beaten I think the [TS]

00:13:23   vermin or something remember correctly [TS]

00:13:25   and then spider-man wakes up after being [TS]

00:13:31   unconscious for two weeks to realize [TS]

00:13:33   that craving has now taken his identity [TS]

00:13:34   is doing this thing and all of the drama [TS]

00:13:36   from the story came from the fact of [TS]

00:13:39   he's just he's a newlywed his wife you [TS]

00:13:42   know what happened to her [TS]

00:13:44   I've been gone all of the emotions and [TS]

00:13:47   angst around like wanting to protect his [TS]

00:13:49   family and her being scared by the [TS]

00:13:52   spider-man character that's out there [TS]

00:13:54   but is not her husband and what's [TS]

00:13:56   happened to my husband like huge amounts [TS]

00:13:58   of drama and amazing heart-wrenching [TS]

00:14:00   story and then at the end of it once [TS]

00:14:04   Peter Parker comes back and confronts [TS]

00:14:05   Craven he kills himself because his [TS]

00:14:08   whole thing was beating spider-man and [TS]

00:14:09   by taking his identity and being as [TS]

00:14:11   villain he has now become better than [TS]

00:14:13   spider-man doesn't need to fight him [TS]

00:14:15   anymore he doesn't need he is pretty [TS]

00:14:17   much just on with his life and kills me [TS]

00:14:18   often it's actually been another [TS]

00:14:20   meaningful deaths that I think is [TS]

00:14:21   carried on comics have never bought [TS]

00:14:22   Craven back the drama of that story came [TS]

00:14:25   from the his relationship with his wife [TS]

00:14:28   yeah it was one that was right after the [TS]

00:14:30   marriage and I think when writers today [TS]

00:14:32   talk about married Peter Parker is not [TS]

00:14:35   as interesting his teenage high school [TS]

00:14:37   Peter Parker first like you pointed out [TS]

00:14:40   they have ultimate spider-man they could [TS]

00:14:41   tell those stories too and then the [TS]

00:14:45   other thing is they're just lousy [TS]

00:14:46   writers yeah and and maybe they're [TS]

00:14:50   they're feeling is that their readers [TS]

00:14:52   would rather have Peter have a bunch ago [TS]

00:14:55   he's bunch he's juggling a bunch of [TS]

00:14:57   girlfriends which is i would argue [TS]

00:14:58   counter to the whole idea that character [TS]

00:15:01   is he's not he was never successful with [TS]

00:15:03   her what you know at least LOL broadly [TS]

00:15:06   layer and now Sam it's better when he's [TS]

00:15:08   done OK and the reboot and the rebooting [TS]

00:15:11   of of of spider-man or the the [TS]

00:15:14   retroactive debt deal with the devil [TS]

00:15:16   thing they've turned him into like oh [TS]

00:15:19   he's got all these girls who are [TS]

00:15:20   interested in what's going to do and [TS]

00:15:22   it's like what ever you want to get [TS]

00:15:24   spine i guess that was their idea of a [TS]

00:15:27   more romantic subplot that people would [TS]

00:15:29   appeal to be I wonder if part of that [TS]

00:15:31   it's very very easy to script beginnings [TS]

00:15:33   of relationships it's very very easy to [TS]

00:15:35   script endings and relationships and a [TS]

00:15:37   lot of these endings from about four [TS]

00:15:38   profoundly stupid reasons and what I [TS]

00:15:40   wonder is if part of this is a [TS]

00:15:43   subconscious attempt to mimic the [TS]

00:15:45   experiences that a high school audience [TS]

00:15:47   or even a college audience is having as [TS]

00:15:49   they embark on their romantic life [TS]

00:15:51   because there's so much drama instrument [TS]

00:15:53   ring when you started dating in high [TS]

00:15:55   school every to the like me to not like [TS]

00:15:58   me with their friends don't like me so [TS]

00:15:59   on and so forth and and by the time in [TS]

00:16:01   your mid-twenties like you have learned [TS]

00:16:02   to filter that out this is suggesting [TS]

00:16:05   arrested development on a part of the [TS]

00:16:07   core of the creators or their assumption [TS]

00:16:08   about where there's something about the [TS]

00:16:10   readers because i would argue that if [TS]

00:16:12   you do it well you could show the drama [TS]

00:16:14   that's inherent in having a 20-plus your [TS]

00:16:16   relationship and trying to mediate your [TS]

00:16:19   investment that relationship and those [TS]

00:16:20   people against the demands that outside [TS]

00:16:22   life has for you so tom defalco and Ron [TS]

00:16:25   friends did a long-running and now dead [TS]

00:16:27   series called spider-girl which was [TS]

00:16:29   about Peter Parker and Mary Jane [TS]

00:16:31   Watson's daughter [TS]

00:16:32   who had spider powers and it's it's [TS]

00:16:35   enjoyable for a lot of different reasons [TS]

00:16:36   and as somebody who has a daughter that [TS]

00:16:40   died i loved having a strong female [TS]

00:16:42   superhero character and she's she's [TS]

00:16:44   going through exactly what this classic [TS]

00:16:45   Spiderman stories were except it's a [TS]

00:16:47   woman instead of a man or a girl instead [TS]

00:16:49   of a boy but one of the interesting [TS]

00:16:51   things about that book is that it [TS]

00:16:53   depicts a decades-long marriage between [TS]

00:16:57   Peter and Mary Jane and he's retired [TS]

00:16:59   from being spider-man because one of his [TS]

00:17:01   enemies like he lost a leg in a battle [TS]

00:17:04   and so he's got a prosthetic leg and [TS]

00:17:06   that breed Richards built for him and he [TS]

00:17:08   you know but it's and they've got and [TS]

00:17:11   got a marriage is having a second second [TS]

00:17:14   kid and and and made Parker the daughter [TS]

00:17:17   is struggling with her powers and it's [TS]

00:17:19   there's lots of great drama there too [TS]

00:17:21   and it shows me that that you know it [TS]

00:17:24   this should be no surprise that you know [TS]

00:17:26   life doesn't end when you get married [TS]

00:17:29   you get its different industry more [TS]

00:17:31   complicated one of what a nice man yeah [TS]

00:17:33   one of my favorite me some reason is a [TS]

00:17:35   curtain people is a curfew CX tournament [TS]

00:17:38   series on I got kidney Clark Kent who [TS]

00:17:41   basically become Superman and I good [TS]

00:17:44   well it's no it's an ordinary kid and I [TS]

00:17:46   can't remember the title of it up in the [TS]

00:17:48   air maybe it's killing me because I can [TS]

00:17:51   see the covers and the artist beautiful [TS]

00:17:53   and basically the for many that the four [TS]

00:17:55   books did birth right now okay now but [TS]

00:17:58   but though the whole arc of the series [TS]

00:18:00   is first the first book he's meeting his [TS]

00:18:02   powers the second book he's meeting lois [TS]

00:18:05   lane for the first time actually her [TS]

00:18:06   name is Louis Louis chowdhury because [TS]

00:18:08   she is absolute is a secret identity [TS]

00:18:10   yes I believe it is Superman secret [TS]

00:18:12   identity and it's fantastic because [TS]

00:18:14   basically the whole arc is him trying to [TS]

00:18:16   balance having superpowers and and doing [TS]

00:18:19   good in the world against the fact that [TS]

00:18:21   he very much loves his wife Lois and he [TS]

00:18:23   loves his twin girls and the last book [TS]

00:18:25   is it basically is is the fruits of this [TS]

00:18:28   30-odd your marriage he has and discover [TS]

00:18:31   that his girls independent superpowers [TS]

00:18:32   as well and how he mediates the worry he [TS]

00:18:34   has for having superpower children and [TS]

00:18:36   and his wife at some point is like what [TS]

00:18:38   well now you know what I've been feeling [TS]

00:18:39   for the last however many years and it's [TS]

00:18:41   just this beautiful little panel because [TS]

00:18:42   it's it packs so much history and and [TS]

00:18:45   emotion into one tiny exchange and it's [TS]

00:18:48   one of the most positive depictions of [TS]

00:18:50   the premise that you can be a superhero [TS]

00:18:52   and still have a healthy robust [TS]

00:18:56   functional romantic life thank God it [TS]

00:18:58   was an elseworlds tale that if it yeah [TS]

00:19:00   that's as we used to call it an [TS]

00:19:03   imaginary story i like those real [TS]

00:19:05   stories also exist so Lois and Clark are [TS]

00:19:08   one of those bedrock relationships that [TS]

00:19:10   that don't mean they do come and go [TS]

00:19:12   occasionally but they're mostly there i [TS]

00:19:15   think they've got married several times [TS]

00:19:16   that's right well yes like Phyllis [TS]

00:19:18   Diller in that way [TS]

00:19:20   Reed Richards at Reed Richards and Sue [TS]

00:19:23   Storm Richards are another example and [TS]

00:19:26   there's really a bedrock relationship [TS]

00:19:27   marriage that's that going aside from [TS]

00:19:29   that time when she ran off with her [TS]

00:19:31   brother and he got an army of [TS]

00:19:33   super-powered criminals to hunt them [TS]

00:19:34   down [TS]

00:19:35   well you know within a few exceptions [TS]

00:19:37   they have essentially been they've had [TS]

00:19:39   some spat ya right they separate and has [TS]

00:19:42   their different writers but they've also [TS]

00:19:43   had but sadly and start married they [TS]

00:19:45   started as a boyfriend/girlfriend and [TS]

00:19:47   then they got married when they started [TS]

00:19:48   as anything hit on him is like a 40 year [TS]

00:19:51   old guy he ages the other direction but [TS]

00:19:54   it was the 60s and they have kids right [TS]

00:19:56   which is they have 18 children now for [TS]

00:19:58   four decades has got everything time [TS]

00:20:00   there was Franklin Ellery yeah and they [TS]

00:20:03   had we in a great during a John Burns [TS]

00:20:06   run which is considered I think the [TS]

00:20:08   second greatest run after Stanley in be [TS]

00:20:10   great I they had a miscarriage and she [TS]

00:20:13   was pregnant for many many many issues [TS]

00:20:16   know how long exactly it was and she [TS]

00:20:19   went into labor and read had be fighting [TS]

00:20:21   Doctor Octopus to coral as you did he do [TS]

00:20:24   and during it all she's nobody said this [TS]

00:20:27   wasn't going to be complicated but she's [TS]

00:20:30   in the hospital i dealing with this is [TS]

00:20:33   he's trying to get back to his wife and [TS]

00:20:35   by the time he does [TS]

00:20:37   she's already miscarried or telescope [TS]

00:20:40   Bergen and it's just have really really [TS]

00:20:43   touching scene and again drama that you [TS]

00:20:46   can have with mature relationships and [TS]

00:20:49   and other things and that's the fact [TS]

00:20:51   they have two kids [TS]

00:20:52   yeah and who only occasionally I i was [TS]

00:20:56   just reading the mark waid fantastic [TS]

00:20:58   four runs [TS]

00:20:58   the early two thousands and in that [TS]

00:21:01   Franklin was literally sent to hell yeah [TS]

00:21:04   that's right to be tortured for a little [TS]

00:21:06   while and that caused some concern if we [TS]

00:21:09   could get an idea how you can talk to [TS]

00:21:10   you can talk to Giuliana Rasputin about [TS]

00:21:12   that making billion on greater actualize [TS]

00:21:15   why stop there why stop treating X [TS]

00:21:17   Factor because I do like Peter David is [TS]

00:21:19   a writer and I was a big fan of that I [TS]

00:21:21   was a big fan of the series because i [TS]

00:21:22   think the way just X Factor know it was [TS]

00:21:25   the I think the first iteration where [TS]

00:21:27   matt mattox is running the detective [TS]

00:21:29   agencies or no that's a recent one okay [TS]

00:21:32   yeah alright that's what we're talking [TS]

00:21:34   about that's the one that basically came [TS]

00:21:35   in pops into existence in the last five [TS]

00:21:36   years or so and one of the plots has [TS]

00:21:39   been getting really drunk in his clothes [TS]

00:21:41   bedding all of the women on the team and [TS]

00:21:43   one of them [TS]

00:21:44   banshees daughter whose name is eluding [TS]

00:21:47   me at the siren [TS]

00:21:48   thank you she gets pregnant and so she [TS]

00:21:51   and Max become a couple carries the baby [TS]

00:21:53   to term and the first time he holds the [TS]

00:21:55   baby it turns out that she was carrying [TS]

00:21:57   a club she was impregnated by a clone so [TS]

00:21:59   according to the laws of the Marvel [TS]

00:22:00   Universe the baby is but a clone and so [TS]

00:22:02   he reabsorbs the baby [TS]

00:22:04   yeah gross yeah you and that was [TS]

00:22:07   actually the moment where i put down the [TS]

00:22:08   book and said I'm done I'm out you know [TS]

00:22:10   because it well because all they did [TS]

00:22:12   after that was no she's angry and oh [TS]

00:22:14   there's there's drama attention and [TS]

00:22:15   so-and-so for you you're my baby [TS]

00:22:17   yeah you know you could talk about the [TS]

00:22:20   weather on a couple stays together [TS]

00:22:21   through this kind of wrenching loss and [TS]

00:22:22   instead it's like a drunken jerky used [TS]

00:22:24   to clone to impregnate me which is just [TS]

00:22:26   and telepaths yeah stay we make it hard [TS]

00:22:30   to have a relationship right us that [TS]

00:22:31   we're learning the other thing I'm also [TS]

00:22:33   learning is besides divorce you could [TS]

00:22:35   possibly make a deal with the devil [TS]

00:22:36   yeah you get out of this fifth marriage [TS]

00:22:38   isn't working or anything it's sort of [TS]

00:22:40   like Satan's annulment [TS]

00:22:43   I that could have been the title of the [TS]

00:22:45   series why was I would have been better [TS]

00:22:46   i would have been better than one more [TS]

00:22:48   day so no and and I'm no more understood [TS]

00:22:51   the point to it may really you know [TS]

00:22:54   she's an old well we we had that [TS]

00:22:55   conversation I think just like you know [TS]

00:22:57   it she's dying to meet I maybe should [TS]

00:22:59   stay [TS]

00:23:00   he's not evil afterlife to keep her away [TS]

00:23:04   from them [TS]

00:23:05   one of the series I want to bring up [TS]

00:23:06   which in my mind has the best [TS]

00:23:08   relationship I've read in comics is a [TS]

00:23:11   Sandman mystery theatre by matt wagner [TS]

00:23:14   and steven biko writes it and I can't [TS]

00:23:20   think of his co-writers name and drawn [TS]

00:23:23   by guy davis largely all those couple [TS]

00:23:25   other artists who have helped but that's [TS]

00:23:27   very set in the nineteen thirties New [TS]

00:23:28   York the run up to World War two [TS]

00:23:32   Wesley Dodds come back from China and he [TS]

00:23:36   does this very pulp fiction character of [TS]

00:23:39   Sandman and he falls in love with a [TS]

00:23:42   Diane this last name is going to escape [TS]

00:23:45   me [TS]

00:23:46   belmont who is the police commissioner's [TS]

00:23:48   daughter and that migrants Steven [TS]

00:23:51   seagull seagull kept going to go to call [TS]

00:23:54   Thank You internet yeah I so the entire [TS]

00:23:58   underlying thing of the story of the [TS]

00:24:01   whole run of the series is their [TS]

00:24:04   relationship and how it starts off in a [TS]

00:24:07   kind of dating way then gradually they [TS]

00:24:09   get closer and closer and she's like one [TS]

00:24:11   of the driving forces in the comic veo [TS]

00:24:13   it's the cheap is much you know [TS]

00:24:17   nineteen-thirties appropriate but [TS]

00:24:20   starting to branch out into that more [TS]

00:24:21   modern woman and wanting to have a job [TS]

00:24:23   not being satisfied with the status quo [TS]

00:24:25   not being satisfied with where women's [TS]

00:24:27   positions was back then and kind of [TS]

00:24:30   finding a bond with Wesley and then [TS]

00:24:34   eventually he let Syrian onto our secret [TS]

00:24:35   and then at night she starts driving him [TS]

00:24:38   around and being is sort of partner but [TS]

00:24:42   it really in the best sense of the word [TS]

00:24:44   like when marriage is really working i [TS]

00:24:46   don't i haven't finished the series yet [TS]

00:24:48   because they only released the eighth [TS]

00:24:49   trade paperback and I think there should [TS]

00:24:51   be two more and for some reason they [TS]

00:24:53   like to leave a couple years between [TS]

00:24:55   releasing these paperbacks but a their [TS]

00:25:00   relationship is so amazing and it's done [TS]

00:25:04   in stark contrast to a lot of the other [TS]

00:25:06   stories happen to be rolled it around [TS]

00:25:10   largely around like you know maniacs [TS]

00:25:13   taking in skinning women and torturing [TS]

00:25:16   them and some really really brutal stuff [TS]

00:25:18   so even creates a stronger contrast but [TS]

00:25:21   it's an amazing realistic [TS]

00:25:24   partnership between these two characters [TS]

00:25:26   who follow in in love and he ends up not [TS]

00:25:31   being able to do what he does without [TS]

00:25:32   her and it's not done in any kind of [TS]

00:25:36   like pandering that's a really nice [TS]

00:25:38   change from the usual i can either to [TS]

00:25:40   have my Cape life or my love life but I [TS]

00:25:42   can't have both [TS]

00:25:43   that seems to be a constant source of [TS]

00:25:45   dramatic tension see also that writing [TS]

00:25:48   right and this is completely different [TS]

00:25:50   and they struggle with it a little but [TS]

00:25:52   it's more on she's trying to help him [TS]

00:25:54   and he's there because they're a team [TS]

00:25:58   because that's really what a real [TS]

00:26:00   relationship is right it'sit's yeah [TS]

00:26:02   amazing i think this is why the one [TS]

00:26:04   superhero relationship that actually [TS]

00:26:06   well not just one let me backtrack when [TS]

00:26:09   wildstorm did the storm watch team and [TS]

00:26:12   they did the authority one of the things [TS]

00:26:13   they did on storm watch is they they [TS]

00:26:15   made a rule that if you couple if you if [TS]

00:26:17   you pair up with a team that you're off [TS]

00:26:18   the team and their premise was if you if [TS]

00:26:21   you're we can't count on you being [TS]

00:26:23   distracted by your feelings for your [TS]

00:26:25   partner if you're in the middle of a [TS]

00:26:26   battle [TS]

00:26:27   so if this is important to you leave and [TS]

00:26:29   seems logical [TS]

00:26:30   yeah and several people did and then [TS]

00:26:32   with the authority they have of course [TS]

00:26:34   the midnight and Apollo who are [TS]

00:26:35   basically there Batman Superman analog [TS]

00:26:38   and they are of course a committed [TS]

00:26:39   long-term couple who's raising Jenny [TS]

00:26:41   quantum and there's was just as very [TS]

00:26:44   matter-of-fact yes we're here we're [TS]

00:26:46   queer where 300 pounds and we'll give [TS]

00:26:50   you a pass [TS]

00:26:51   yeah well it's well it's ok it's going [TS]

00:26:53   but it's also a totally functional [TS]

00:26:54   relationship there's no drama there's no [TS]

00:26:56   back and forth [TS]

00:26:58   nobody gives them static about it and I [TS]

00:27:01   think that and get beat up [TS]

00:27:03   exactly and there's a night and Apollo [TS]

00:27:06   are pretty tough [TS]

00:27:06   yeah but between that and the other the [TS]

00:27:08   other 1i want to call out in terms of [TS]

00:27:10   capes is I really like the invincible [TS]

00:27:12   has been handling it [TS]

00:27:13   I was gonna buy it has written I've Adam [TS]

00:27:16   Eve well not just that I was thinking [TS]

00:27:18   the very beginning when Invincibles moms [TS]

00:27:21   like so I've been married to an alien [TS]

00:27:23   invaders yeah along now with and she it [TS]

00:27:26   takes her a while to recover from that [TS]

00:27:28   and it's a really realistic thing where [TS]

00:27:30   she was the comic never lets you forget [TS]

00:27:32   that she has betrayed down to her core [TS]

00:27:34   and even though they're they're back [TS]

00:27:36   together now [TS]

00:27:37   laughter much of that was that was not [TS]

00:27:40   an easy thing now he had to change [TS]

00:27:43   because he betrayed her in a very [TS]

00:27:45   different way than a normal betrayal [TS]

00:27:47   what happened and he was a secret plant [TS]

00:27:49   from evil empire and they shouldn't plan [TS]

00:27:52   yeah and then she raises his half [TS]

00:27:54   insects son by another larval queen yeah [TS]

00:27:57   but it's it's a super awkward [TS]

00:28:00   what it is but again this is but this is [TS]

00:28:02   a great job of flushing out her [TS]

00:28:03   character because it points out that [TS]

00:28:05   she's like well this child obviously [TS]

00:28:06   needs a mother and I will do it yeah [TS]

00:28:09   well it's in it's it's it's a great [TS]

00:28:11   moment but Invincibles one of those were [TS]

00:28:12   about it doesn't take that false [TS]

00:28:14   dichotomy of caper relationship right [TS]

00:28:16   William what it doesn't set is say [TS]

00:28:18   there's ways to do both because you know [TS]

00:28:20   the whole point of being a superhero is [TS]

00:28:21   not that you're this bifurcated person [TS]

00:28:23   the whole point is that it's just part [TS]

00:28:24   of who you are and and mark and Eve in [TS]

00:28:27   that comic are you know not together [TS]

00:28:29   when we first meet them he's got a [TS]

00:28:31   regular girlfriend but it's very clear [TS]

00:28:33   that Eve and Mark are going to be [TS]

00:28:35   together and he was dating someone else [TS]

00:28:37   as well yeah it's super here and it's a [TS]

00:28:38   nice it's a nice progression but once [TS]

00:28:41   they're together they also she's sort of [TS]

00:28:44   like becomes his business manager a [TS]

00:28:45   little bit because he's very busy but [TS]

00:28:47   she's also got power so they're sort of [TS]

00:28:48   like they're two superpowers together [TS]

00:28:50   they can like get paid to catch escaped [TS]

00:28:53   convicts and clean up messes and things [TS]

00:28:56   like that so they got a little business [TS]

00:28:57   going and then he gets sent because it's [TS]

00:29:00   very cosmic oriented series he gets sent [TS]

00:29:02   offworld for a period of time and she's [TS]

00:29:05   pregnant and he doesn't know and that [TS]

00:29:08   leads to a whole interesting subplot [TS]

00:29:10   where she's pregnant and did she lose [TS]

00:29:13   the paper just to have an abortion i [TS]

00:29:15   don't have not read that far as she does [TS]

00:29:17   not sorry I'm spoilers [TS]

00:29:18   well okay I'm gonna get trade by trade I [TS]

00:29:21   don't think it's really good [TS]

00:29:23   well the point is now that everyone's it [TS]

00:29:24   um she doesn't have the baby but she you [TS]

00:29:30   know she goes through this emotional [TS]

00:29:31   process and she gains she gains a lot of [TS]

00:29:34   weight and the way it's not coming off [TS]

00:29:36   she her body has changed and when Mark [TS]

00:29:38   comes back [TS]

00:29:39   there's this initial thought of like oh [TS]

00:29:40   wow you know settle yourself together [TS]

00:29:43   right it's like no this is me this is [TS]

00:29:45   who I am and that's been really great [TS]

00:29:48   because they're still together [TS]

00:29:49   there are there [TS]

00:29:50   you know always strains in the [TS]

00:29:51   relationship you know diamond giant [TS]

00:29:53   giant dinosaur supervillains can haven't [TS]

00:29:56   their effects like clones and telepaths [TS]

00:29:58   but i like the fact that that Kirkman [TS]

00:30:01   invincible is trying to have them have [TS]

00:30:04   these countries fails but they're really [TS]

00:30:05   that they're really together they're [TS]

00:30:07   they're a great match and they're not [TS]

00:30:09   married or anything yet but they're [TS]

00:30:11   they're really great match who has [TS]

00:30:12   reason to stick to stick together in [TS]

00:30:14   these things that happen [TS]

00:30:15   clones and telepathic dinosaurs don't [TS]

00:30:17   necessarily get in the way of that which [TS]

00:30:19   is nice to see so a lot of in the [TS]

00:30:21   superhero genre a lot of what we've been [TS]

00:30:23   talking about is a the main protagonist [TS]

00:30:25   being a male and having a female [TS]

00:30:27   relationship yeah and exit except for [TS]

00:30:32   midnight on Apollo but it has been like [TS]

00:30:34   female lead books or characters who have [TS]

00:30:38   also had relationships I try to think of [TS]

00:30:40   Wonder Woman there aren't that many [TS]

00:30:42   female lead but seriously either one of [TS]

00:30:44   the challenging way I'm rifling through [TS]

00:30:47   the vertical back catalogue in the [TS]

00:30:48   reason I say vertigo is it's the one [TS]

00:30:49   most likely to aim at women right in [TS]

00:30:52   terms of readership but i can't recall [TS]

00:30:55   it ya know now I was thinking there's [TS]

00:30:59   that there was a miniseries called the [TS]

00:31:00   witching which is about three women who [TS]

00:31:02   were which is obviously Supergirl never [TS]

00:31:04   had new love interests about girl i [TS]

00:31:08   guess you could argue that the runaways [TS]

00:31:09   is sort of a female-led book in the [TS]

00:31:11   sense that it's an ensemble and it's a [TS]

00:31:13   ensemble with a really healthy gender [TS]

00:31:14   mix em um that said because it's a book [TS]

00:31:18   about teenagers and the whole point is [TS]

00:31:21   they're teenagers with exceptionally [TS]

00:31:22   complex lives you're not really going to [TS]

00:31:23   find any good examples of relationship [TS]

00:31:25   where all I can pull out kitty pryde who [TS]

00:31:27   has every every adolescent boy in the [TS]

00:31:30   eighties you know left Kitty Pryde and [TS]

00:31:32   she had adolescent girl needs want to be [TS]

00:31:34   her [TS]

00:31:34   well this is the best keep riding pretty [TS]

00:31:36   nice right so so so she had [TS]

00:31:38   relationships but I always eating like [TS]

00:31:40   you know Gotye hated him so that was [TS]

00:31:42   like I won't repair to the eighties I [TS]

00:31:44   all my god hate him so much because of [TS]

00:31:45   course anyway like I was saying they [TS]

00:31:47   were essentially having non couple yes [TS]

00:31:49   right right but this is this is one of [TS]

00:31:51   those samples where at least as I've you [TS]

00:31:53   didn't diagnose that most people did [TS]

00:31:55   that they were thinking of it from his [TS]

00:31:57   perspective I I never thought that that [TS]

00:31:59   could these relationships were her being [TS]

00:32:01   paired with people it was who is going [TS]

00:32:02   to be paired with her [TS]

00:32:03   and of course that's what I think you [TS]

00:32:05   referenced earlier of course Peter [TS]

00:32:08   Parker gets kitty pryde in ultimate [TS]

00:32:11   ultimate spider-man right which is [TS]

00:32:12   hilarious and like why did nobody think [TS]

00:32:14   of it notes because their ages were to [TS]

00:32:16   have different in the regular Marvel [TS]

00:32:18   Universe but that's somebody and Peter [TS]

00:32:21   and and and Kitty specifically where [TS]

00:32:22   they had this sort of she's young but [TS]

00:32:24   she loves she's at release a crush on [TS]

00:32:26   him and he's older and he's trying to [TS]

00:32:28   hold her arms length but you know India [TS]

00:32:31   something they're like they would throw [TS]

00:32:33   you just again I said this is somebody [TS]

00:32:35   who read this during the eighties you [TS]

00:32:37   know we go as I traveled the arc from [TS]

00:32:40   elementary school through high school [TS]

00:32:42   they would throw you just enough to know [TS]

00:32:44   there's hope as soon as she gets older [TS]

00:32:46   oh my gosh one of these days he's gonna [TS]

00:32:47   notice that she got kidnapped by Caliban [TS]

00:32:49   yeah the source for a while and then [TS]

00:32:50   they bring her back she married and then [TS]

00:32:52   she ran into people's demand and you [TS]

00:32:55   know the later on yeah but it was just [TS]

00:32:57   all my gosh that was one of the great [TS]

00:33:00   unconsummated or i should say one of the [TS]

00:33:01   great non-relational joss whedon [TS]

00:33:03   consummated a boy [TS]

00:33:05   yeah I don't think I don't acknowledge [TS]

00:33:06   that that's an alternate universes far [TS]

00:33:10   as I'm pretty private much integrated I [TS]

00:33:12   Bendis and ultimate yeah yeah yeah then [TS]

00:33:15   she ever was that was that was a [TS]

00:33:16   masterstroke ultimate spider-man the [TS]

00:33:18   first you know the first edition of [TS]

00:33:20   ultimate spider-man with Peter Parker [TS]

00:33:22   and mary jane and Gwen Stacy and Kitty [TS]

00:33:25   Pryde yes you're right that's three [TS]

00:33:28   pretty he's got a pretty good batting [TS]

00:33:29   average there if he's got those three [TS]

00:33:31   women interesting him but all those [TS]

00:33:32   relationship or different [TS]

00:33:33   yeah and they were all really good like [TS]

00:33:35   the mary-jane Peter relationship and [TS]

00:33:36   ultimate spider-man is way more [TS]

00:33:38   believable and understandable with [TS]

00:33:41   detail about who these people are and [TS]

00:33:43   here they work together why they be [TS]

00:33:44   invented the Marvel Universe although it [TS]

00:33:47   was always its independence things he [TS]

00:33:48   was always treated more as a hapless [TS]

00:33:51   victim of the relationships I mean they [TS]

00:33:53   were completely with women driven women [TS]

00:33:56   dominated and I think it actually goes [TS]

00:33:57   back to one of the high school [TS]

00:33:59   well noted that word acumen totally [TS]

00:34:03   clueless about one of the ethos in all [TS]

00:34:06   these tights and flights books though [TS]

00:34:07   which is which is that oh these guys are [TS]

00:34:10   great at beating the crap out of each [TS]

00:34:11   other on top of the Empire State [TS]

00:34:13   Building but oh they're helpless when [TS]

00:34:15   pepper pops depths tops are dainty [TS]

00:34:17   little [TS]

00:34:17   whatever when it's such a human emotions [TS]

00:34:20   come into play and when they do they [TS]

00:34:22   don't have the power to just do whatever [TS]

00:34:24   they want and not everyone is as great [TS]

00:34:26   and all aspects of their life you know [TS]

00:34:28   because you're good at your job doesn't [TS]

00:34:30   mean you're yeah that's what yeah [TS]

00:34:32   not everyone is that well-rounded yeah [TS]

00:34:33   that was and and so I was like that [TS]

00:34:35   about the about that but the it was a [TS]

00:34:36   stroke of genius to put kitty pryde and [TS]

00:34:38   Peter Parker's high school [TS]

00:34:40   well but Kitty Pryde and and Bobby Drake [TS]

00:34:43   and uh and I storm storm was your agency [TS]

00:34:47   also super high school [TS]

00:34:49   yeah it's great i'm sorry that story [TS]

00:34:51   didn't go on library I wouldn't think [TS]

00:34:52   that was not really that again i would [TS]

00:34:54   talk that was pretty yeah I i recently [TS]

00:34:56   invested all of my ultimate spider-man [TS]

00:34:59   trades and now I'm kind of wishing i had [TS]

00:35:00   i would love to go back I would actually [TS]

00:35:01   you can borrow my hardcovers marveling [TS]

00:35:04   at how long can you please do a nun told [TS]

00:35:05   and untold tales series i don't think [TS]

00:35:08   I'm smarter arrow high school [TS]

00:35:10   yeah I don't superhero highest i can't [TS]

00:35:12   remember the name of the title that came [TS]

00:35:13   out of years ago I think it was a I [TS]

00:35:15   think it was a wild storm title i know [TS]

00:35:17   it starts than I but it was basically [TS]

00:35:18   about a superhero high school [TS]

00:35:20   um and what I remember is they tried to [TS]

00:35:24   do what basically amounted to hyper text [TS]

00:35:26   on the page where you have the comics [TS]

00:35:27   and then you'd have all of these little [TS]

00:35:29   back 20 blurbs that were call-outs and [TS]

00:35:31   imposed it's gonna drive me crazy [TS]

00:35:33   because I can you can see the futuristic [TS]

00:35:34   font they used in the covers it was like [TS]

00:35:36   a 13 issue series i want to say back [TS]

00:35:40   circuit 2004-2005 where they basically [TS]

00:35:43   did a superhero high school and the idea [TS]

00:35:45   was it would be even worse than regular [TS]

00:35:46   high school [TS]

00:35:47   sure well because in addition to the [TS]

00:35:49   usual petty jealousies and so on and so [TS]

00:35:50   forth [TS]

00:35:51   you had people who would not hesitate to [TS]

00:35:53   nuke each other because they have the [TS]

00:35:54   power to do so or people who turn each [TS]

00:35:56   other into bats or what have you ever in [TS]

00:35:58   teenagers show lousy restraint yeah and [TS]

00:36:00   that was basically the premise was these [TS]

00:36:01   people did terrible things to each other [TS]

00:36:03   because they have poor impulse control [TS]

00:36:04   Sam so if you had to pick one favorite [TS]

00:36:10   comic-book relationship from your your [TS]

00:36:15   comic book reading but what would it be [TS]

00:36:19   will be the one that you would pick as [TS]

00:36:20   long as we already talked about its the [TS]

00:36:21   the Diane belmont Wesley Dodds Sam and [TS]

00:36:25   mystery theater i would read that over [TS]

00:36:27   and over for the relationship [TS]

00:36:29   all right Lisa [TS]

00:36:31   see now I want to read that too um [TS]

00:36:33   that's good that's part of why we're [TS]

00:36:34   here [TS]

00:36:34   I kind of want to divide it into tights [TS]

00:36:36   vs non tights sure that I'm one of the [TS]

00:36:38   things i noticed we focus a lot of [TS]

00:36:39   superheroes we haven't really talked [TS]

00:36:41   about the non-superhero a lot of the non [TS]

00:36:42   superhero genre is just like literature [TS]

00:36:44   in that it's got a lot of realism and [TS]

00:36:47   more of a event where I was going to [TS]

00:36:49   mention the walking dead which is not [TS]

00:36:51   super realistic in the zombies but then [TS]

00:36:53   christman but there's some really and [TS]

00:36:54   there's a marriage and there's some [TS]

00:36:56   issues and some of them are but it's [TS]

00:36:58   licensed marriage but it right but this [TS]

00:36:59   is a story right bullet to that is it [TS]

00:37:01   but it's a story and and and it doesn't [TS]

00:37:03   seem mean I the relationships in non [TS]

00:37:06   superhero comics see more or less i [TS]

00:37:08   would think about as well handled as [TS]

00:37:11   your average relationship and other [TS]

00:37:13   works which is some of them are good and [TS]

00:37:14   some of them are bad [TS]

00:37:15   yeah because i was gonna say free i love [TS]

00:37:17   the book scalp for example but it drives [TS]

00:37:18   me nuts but they do with the [TS]

00:37:19   relationships and that which is to say [TS]

00:37:21   horrible horrible dramatic drawn-out [TS]

00:37:23   things um I have a soft spot for the [TS]

00:37:27   dignity is Ralph ensued knee because [TS]

00:37:30   they were that ended poorly [TS]

00:37:32   well yes and no yes and no because [TS]

00:37:36   granted her brutal rape and murder was [TS]

00:37:39   what was a challenge on it was nice [TS]

00:37:41   quality their own horn but we're all [TS]

00:37:46   laughing our terrible terrible way that [TS]

00:37:49   how horrible that it was out of left [TS]

00:37:51   field a bright because they take this [TS]

00:37:52   character she and she and route soon [TS]

00:37:54   Ralph had this [TS]

00:37:55   it was almost like Nick and Nora Charles [TS]

00:37:56   we're basically these globe-trotting [TS]

00:37:58   wisecracking mystery-solving people and [TS]

00:38:00   oh yes he happens to be elastic men and [TS]

00:38:03   so you had this solid functional [TS]

00:38:05   marriage and I realized the reason they [TS]

00:38:07   decided to these terrible things to [TS]

00:38:08   Sydney was it was supposed to shock you [TS]

00:38:09   to your core that this beloved and [TS]

00:38:11   stable member of the DC universe was so [TS]

00:38:13   horribly violated [TS]

00:38:14   however um first of all people were [TS]

00:38:17   really taken aback that it was sued me [TS]

00:38:19   and not in the MS Reed more type away [TS]

00:38:21   but run it out to you monsters [TS]

00:38:23   however it ends with Ralph dying too and [TS]

00:38:26   they're reunited and now they're solving [TS]

00:38:27   crimes in the afterlife and so I like [TS]

00:38:29   that they got back together I think [TS]

00:38:30   that's sweet afterlife crimes right [TS]

00:38:32   there wasn't any ghosts detectives know [TS]

00:38:34   the ghost times now and I like that [TS]

00:38:36   they're back together and back to being [TS]

00:38:37   there Bantry old self [TS]

00:38:39   um I wanted to complain about the [TS]

00:38:41   relationships on fables but we've I [TS]

00:38:43   think we've passed that on [TS]

00:38:44   but if you ever if you wanted to read [TS]

00:38:49   what are you saying fairytale [TS]

00:38:50   relationships don't go well Tucker don't [TS]

00:38:54   live happily ever after [TS]

00:38:55   no they there is a Brahma killer well no [TS]

00:38:57   I actually a lot of complaints about the [TS]

00:38:59   snow white baby relationship because [TS]

00:39:01   that one is going entirely too well [TS]

00:39:02   considering the tremendous amounts of [TS]

00:39:04   baggage they bring to the relationship [TS]

00:39:06   and the fact that he got her pregnant [TS]

00:39:07   when she was out of her mind with [TS]

00:39:08   hallucinations or something um wasn't he [TS]

00:39:10   out of his mind [TS]

00:39:11   she was the one who know because he [TS]

00:39:13   because I believe that I they may have [TS]

00:39:15   both been idea why but it wasn't long is [TS]

00:39:19   a wolf [TS]

00:39:20   yeah and the and the Northland also [TS]

00:39:22   right [TS]

00:39:23   yeah we can do but plans telepaths and I [TS]

00:39:27   mean if you were old but if you really [TS]

00:39:28   if you're really craving an up-and-down [TS]

00:39:30   type of drama with them with the romance [TS]

00:39:32   and the riding off into the sunset [TS]

00:39:33   I know you don't care for the book but [TS]

00:39:35   preacher is actually a great romantic [TS]

00:39:38   story about you know there's a definite [TS]

00:39:39   are really really it is it is they work [TS]

00:39:42   out their differences in every couple [TS]

00:39:43   has them they work out their [TS]

00:39:44   communications issues and they end up [TS]

00:39:46   having each other's back and they ride [TS]

00:39:47   off into the sunset on the horse [TS]

00:39:49   literally so it's bonus points for that [TS]

00:39:54   it's a surprisingly sweet story [TS]

00:39:56   underneath the gratuitous you know men [TS]

00:39:59   who have sex with sausages and angry god [TS]

00:40:02   and while and backwards Nazis and and [TS]

00:40:05   all of that so of course my favorite [TS]

00:40:09   comic-book relationship is obviously [TS]

00:40:11   commander and marionette in the [TS]

00:40:13   Micronauts know it took us four now that [TS]

00:40:18   I'm not a lot of love in the micro [TS]

00:40:20   universe not yet that's not true that's [TS]

00:40:22   not true [TS]

00:40:23   Kroy and his girlfriend who can't who [TS]

00:40:26   has is having his baby but can't be with [TS]

00:40:28   him because he's banished from his [TS]

00:40:29   people for betraying them even though he [TS]

00:40:30   saves them bug and his girl oh there's [TS]

00:40:33   lots of romance in my ovaries just too [TS]

00:40:35   small to see budgets back in the Marvel [TS]

00:40:37   Universe I guess back in the marvel [TS]

00:40:39   universe because they own the rights to [TS]

00:40:40   bug they just don't know it to most of [TS]

00:40:41   the other characters so that will make [TS]

00:40:43   things awkward because like I would tell [TS]

00:40:44   you more about my friends behind that [TS]

00:40:46   allowed taking them tell them but there [TS]

00:40:49   any in obscure and circumscribed ways no [TS]

00:40:52   i trade my turn maybe [TS]

00:40:53   I'd like any pride is probably the the [TS]

00:40:55   touchstone for me even though I always [TS]

00:40:57   hated Colossus I always thought that was [TS]

00:40:58   the that was that was the interpersonal [TS]

00:41:00   kind of relationship that I that I [TS]

00:41:02   definitely follow when I was a kid and [TS]

00:41:03   big and hard and yes and that's why i [TS]

00:41:07   hate him so much protected he watched [TS]

00:41:10   out for her battle and and yes you have [TS]

00:41:12   to rely on our special and all my guess [TS]

00:41:14   he did [TS]

00:41:14   oh I hated him so much and although [TS]

00:41:16   although although the ultimate [TS]

00:41:19   spider-man i think in terms of modern [TS]

00:41:20   relationships I I Bendis one of the [TS]

00:41:22   advantages of having that decompression [TS]

00:41:24   and all that dialogue is that he [TS]

00:41:26   actually got to build up some [TS]

00:41:27   interesting interpersonal relationships [TS]

00:41:29   in with between especially Peter and [TS]

00:41:31   Mary Jane I'd agree with that yeah I [TS]

00:41:33   would too [TS]

00:41:34   I like brian michael bendis is a writer [TS]

00:41:35   a lot yeah well i mean i was gonna I was [TS]

00:41:38   gonna take the last few minutes to talk [TS]

00:41:39   about what are you reading and I was [TS]

00:41:41   going to bring up the new ultimate [TS]

00:41:43   spider-man which as much as i railed [TS]

00:41:45   against what they did to Peter Parker in [TS]

00:41:48   the death of Spiderman arc with the [TS]

00:41:50   obviously and painfully named death of [TS]

00:41:52   Spiderman arc we're in which they big [TS]

00:41:54   surprise kill spider-man in the new [TS]

00:41:58   sorry Lisa I'm spoiling everything today [TS]

00:42:00   in the new amazing spider or ultimate [TS]

00:42:02   spider-man series it's great because [TS]

00:42:05   it's all the good things about dentists [TS]

00:42:06   except now the kid is not even younger [TS]

00:42:09   he's got some different family dynamics [TS]

00:42:10   but he too was bitten by a genetically [TS]

00:42:13   altered Norman Osborn corporation spider [TS]

00:42:15   and his powers are slightly different [TS]

00:42:17   and he interacts with the ultimate sand [TS]

00:42:20   and with Gwen Stacy at one point and [TS]

00:42:22   basically gets read the riot act about [TS]

00:42:24   if you're going to be spider-man you [TS]

00:42:26   gotta understand that you're in his [TS]

00:42:27   shadow and you gotta you gotta you know [TS]

00:42:29   you gotta follow his example and all [TS]

00:42:32   that and it's actually don't dishonor [TS]

00:42:33   this it it's amazing how I again I don't [TS]

00:42:37   like how they ended it because i felt [TS]

00:42:38   like it was we're done with this let's [TS]

00:42:39   just let's just wrap this up but the new [TS]

00:42:41   series is great for all the reasons the [TS]

00:42:44   old series was great which is really its [TS]

00:42:45   Bendis and dealing with like kids trying [TS]

00:42:48   to struggle with their their [TS]

00:42:49   relationship to the world which is great [TS]

00:42:51   material and so the Miles Morales the [TS]

00:42:53   new spider-man is it's a pretty easy [TS]

00:42:56   turning out to be a pretty good [TS]

00:42:57   character and I think it was genius [TS]

00:42:59   turning Peter Parker into Uncle Ben yeah [TS]

00:43:02   oh no that's exactly it he's gotta live [TS]

00:43:04   up because Peter Parker's whole [TS]

00:43:06   watchword [TS]

00:43:07   was with great power comes great [TS]

00:43:07   responsibility and now now miles has to [TS]

00:43:10   live up to Peter's example it's amazing [TS]

00:43:13   so yeah they did a good job [TS]

00:43:14   there's there's a chilling that what [TS]

00:43:16   really got me on their side is there's a [TS]

00:43:18   chilling a couple of issues where he has [TS]

00:43:20   to interact with spider Ultimate Spider [TS]

00:43:21   Woman with who is a female clone of [TS]

00:43:23   Peter Parker so she has all the memories [TS]

00:43:25   of Peter Parker up to about you know two [TS]

00:43:27   years right in which four people on the [TS]

00:43:28   listing who haven't read those ultimate [TS]

00:43:31   spider-man things the jessica through [TS]

00:43:35   yeah whoo and the ultimate universities [TS]

00:43:37   as you said a female Peter Parker yeah [TS]

00:43:39   that brings up so many interesting story [TS]

00:43:42   things pretty well she's kissing Johnny [TS]

00:43:43   store oh yeah and you know Anna and [TS]

00:43:46   weird and Ben just deals with it yeah [TS]

00:43:47   like so do you like really well done [TS]

00:43:49   you like boys now and she's like I don't [TS]

00:43:50   maybe but i also remember loving Mary [TS]

00:43:53   Jane so I don't really know it's [TS]

00:43:55   fascinating but she has to interact with [TS]

00:43:57   miles and its really weird for both of [TS]

00:43:59   them because peter is dead and he's now [TS]

00:44:01   sort of spider-man and she's mad about [TS]

00:44:04   that but it because she is sort of Peter [TS]

00:44:06   which means she can also kind of be the [TS]

00:44:09   representative of him to the new guy [TS]

00:44:12   it's it's great i am so so Brian Bendis [TS]

00:44:15   you know III he does really good work i [TS]

00:44:18   gotta say I'm ivory every time he loses [TS]

00:44:21   me he gets me back right i love the flip [TS]

00:44:22   side o moon night the new series by [TS]

00:44:25   business as I've read the first seven [TS]

00:44:28   eight issues and that's when there were [TS]

00:44:29   a couple of shit is that was bad i've [TS]

00:44:31   been trying you know I've really trying [TS]

00:44:34   because i like the moon I character and [TS]

00:44:36   maybe I'm missing something I don't [TS]

00:44:40   it's not resonating I don't get it [TS]

00:44:43   there's nothing [TS]

00:44:44   yeah interesting there tonight always [TS]

00:44:47   seemed like a better idea than an [TS]

00:44:49   execution yeah you should [TS]

00:44:51   yeah because i read the whole big [TS]

00:44:53   mansion built if its run and it was has [TS]

00:44:55   none of that forced air and good that we [TS]

00:44:57   should do it will sink its podcast would [TS]

00:44:58   be cool if he dumped by my darling for [TS]

00:45:00   middle that's a good idea i went back [TS]

00:45:02   and read my new mutants [TS]

00:45:04   why would that go visit my new mutants [TS]

00:45:06   run recently and we'll think of its does [TS]

00:45:09   a huge shark [TS]

00:45:10   yeah and i remember reading it as a [TS]

00:45:12   fourteen-year-old and just struggling to [TS]

00:45:14   to understand the art and what am I [TS]

00:45:16   seeing exactly know and it was pretty [TS]

00:45:19   radical more [TS]

00:45:20   lock was like we're straddling this [TS]

00:45:22   abstract black with a pair blah [TS]

00:45:25   yeah and easy against the 49ers I can [TS]

00:45:28   really struggling to try to figure out [TS]

00:45:29   the art and try to make sense of it and [TS]

00:45:31   going back now and looking at its really [TS]

00:45:34   striking to see how he's influenced a [TS]

00:45:37   lot of visual conventions and in the [TS]

00:45:40   interviewing years so you know we should [TS]

00:45:43   we should definitely talk about how he's [TS]

00:45:44   shaped storytelling or if you have to [TS]

00:45:46   end if it was for the better or not [TS]

00:45:47   that's a great idea anyway so I didn't [TS]

00:45:49   know we're also just was gonna revisit [TS]

00:45:51   watchman now that we've uh that's [TS]

00:45:54   another podcast with now that they've [TS]

00:45:55   announced that they're watch men [TS]

00:45:56   prequels coming out there's Kennedy [TS]

00:45:57   there's there's that there is too much [TS]

00:45:59   better do some heard that I thought I [TS]

00:46:01   watch him Saturday morning cartoon yes [TS]

00:46:03   watching babies the other i wanted to [TS]

00:46:06   mention a few of the other things i'm [TS]

00:46:08   reading and then and then you guys [TS]

00:46:09   should say if there are things that you [TS]

00:46:10   are reading and rereading i just read [TS]

00:46:14   the first issue of Winter Soldier which [TS]

00:46:16   is Ed Brubaker doing a non going series [TS]

00:46:20   about Bucky who is the winter soldier [TS]

00:46:22   and he's you know from the pages of [TS]

00:46:24   Captain America and I feel like I'll off [TS]

00:46:26   I'm gonna follow Brubaker it because I [TS]

00:46:29   loved what he did with that character [TS]

00:46:31   and that whole story arc where he has to [TS]

00:46:32   be deprogrammed from being a Soviet [TS]

00:46:34   assassin and then he has to be captain [TS]

00:46:36   america when Captain America is dead and [TS]

00:46:39   now he is trying to sort of like faked [TS]

00:46:42   his own death and he and the Black Widow [TS]

00:46:44   are doing secret missions and Brubaker's [TS]

00:46:47   such a good writer and I love what he's [TS]

00:46:49   done with Captain America that's like [TS]

00:46:50   I'm on the train for winter soldier [TS]

00:46:52   that's that's such a great new Karen new [TS]

00:46:54   Marvel character not new but yet new I'm [TS]

00:46:57   and I'm i like the first issue of that [TS]

00:46:59   so i'm reading that red POC is doing [TS]

00:47:04   astonishing x-men now and I've left i've [TS]

00:47:07   liked the first two issues that he's [TS]

00:47:09   done because it's essentially read I [TS]

00:47:11   don't know if he's going to stick with [TS]

00:47:12   this but it's essentially remaking [TS]

00:47:14   exiles which I liked which was the [TS]

00:47:16   author your file alternate universe [TS]

00:47:19   x-men where they just plot plot [TS]

00:47:20   characters from vary from alternate [TS]

00:47:22   different parallel universes yeah it was [TS]

00:47:24   really sort of like this is that [TS]

00:47:25   leiter's that old TVs right saddle with [TS]

00:47:28   the x-men but with your memory [TS]

00:47:29   over or very soon be like spot aspergers [TS]

00:47:31   spider-man 2099 the interest is lots and [TS]

00:47:35   lots of this crazy like mix-and-match [TS]

00:47:36   well well astonishing what park is doing [TS]

00:47:39   is he has like a storm i think it comes [TS]

00:47:43   to Cyclops and says I need your help and [TS]

00:47:46   she's got her Mohawk instead of her [TS]

00:47:47   current hair or do and he goes with her [TS]

00:47:50   and it turns out that that's not his [TS]

00:47:51   storm and she's she's basically plucked [TS]

00:47:53   him because they keep stealing x-men [TS]

00:47:55   from other universes in order to to this [TS]

00:47:58   horrible like dystopian universe where [TS]

00:47:59   they're using them as power sources and [TS]

00:48:01   then there's like an alternate Wolverine [TS]

00:48:04   there and they break out of the jail and [TS]

00:48:06   it's it's it's cool because it i really [TS]

00:48:09   loved exiles I thought that was a great [TS]

00:48:11   crazy idea to show to make all these [TS]

00:48:13   various alternate characters team up and [TS]

00:48:15   that's what great park is doing with [TS]

00:48:17   astonishing so i'm i'm kinda on board [TS]

00:48:19   for that I don't know whether that's [TS]

00:48:20   going to be the premise of the title at [TS]

00:48:22   all or whether it's just a story arc but [TS]

00:48:24   I'm liking it so that's what I talked me [TS]

00:48:26   into it that's what i'm reading now and [TS]

00:48:28   i read a book called fenman which is a [TS]

00:48:30   comic book biography of the physicist [TS]

00:48:33   Richard Feynman women who might drink [TS]

00:48:36   Jim ottaviani and leland myrick are [TS]

00:48:39   going to my amazon lists are the are the [TS]

00:48:41   writer and artist [TS]

00:48:42   fine then I guess Richard find that the [TS]

00:48:44   who worked on the Manhattan Project and [TS]

00:48:46   famously led the Challenger [TS]

00:48:48   investigation board after the special [TS]

00:48:50   challenger incident and it was pretty [TS]

00:48:53   cool that was my wife got at the library [TS]

00:48:55   and brought it home for me and biography [TS]

00:48:57   as comic book and it uses his words from [TS]

00:48:59   his lectures and his writing to form a [TS]

00:49:03   story of his life in comic form and it's [TS]

00:49:07   a it's pretty cool so that's another [TS]

00:49:08   that's what i'm reading Jason what are [TS]

00:49:10   you reading [TS]

00:49:11   hi as so right now I'm reading a lot of [TS]

00:49:14   the new kirby verse titles that dynamite [TS]

00:49:18   is publishing so these are Jack Kirby's [TS]

00:49:22   later creations the ones that he kept [TS]

00:49:25   yes Silverstar capital victory bombast [TS]

00:49:30   there's a whole series of they were [TS]

00:49:31   published by tops in the late nineties [TS]

00:49:33   or the early nineties he died in the [TS]

00:49:36   mid-nineties and then things like the [TS]

00:49:38   the galaxy hunters are [TS]

00:49:42   at Marvel had published a series just [TS]

00:49:45   recently on these Kirby claytor Kirby [TS]

00:49:48   creation so dynamite has them all right [TS]

00:49:50   now and they've put them together in one [TS]

00:49:53   universe it's written by Mark way to [TS]

00:49:54   definitely knows you see it was me away [TS]

00:49:56   yeah we've done resident here a really [TS]

00:49:59   good writer yeah I think about a lot of [TS]

00:50:01   kirby creations is there fairly insane [TS]

00:50:04   and out there and just on bass tara lynn [TS]

00:50:07   and so much energy and you take all of [TS]

00:50:11   them and put them into one look and act [TS]

00:50:16   and even it's like you feeling every [TS]

00:50:18   issue they're introducing another 36 [TS]

00:50:20   characters your and concepts and like [TS]

00:50:22   ancient Mayan gods and base that's [TS]

00:50:26   people are gonna go there reading city [TS]

00:50:28   go all the way then there's like a [TS]

00:50:30   couple of human characters who are in [TS]

00:50:32   the midst of all this and trying to [TS]

00:50:34   puzzle it out you're just like whoa [TS]

00:50:35   where are they going to go next and it's [TS]

00:50:37   just high energy Alex Ross is doing the [TS]

00:50:41   the covers and some of the layouts and [TS]

00:50:44   Mark great weight is writing it so its [TS]

00:50:46   high-quality stuff just a million insane [TS]

00:50:50   ideas so it's just basically this whole [TS]

00:50:52   untapped Kirby sandbox and tryna crazy [TS]

00:50:56   character designs and try to actually [TS]

00:50:58   make it i hope coherent doesn't seem [TS]

00:51:00   cold here right now but they're only [TS]

00:51:01   like three or four issues in and [TS]

00:51:03   everyone i get there is another 36 [TS]

00:51:04   characters and concepts kind of [TS]

00:51:05   introducing like whoa where's the [TS]

00:51:07   struggling notes [TS]

00:51:08   yeah it may have been a huge disaster [TS]

00:51:10   but if it is it's going to be a [TS]

00:51:11   brilliant beautiful mess of a disaster [TS]

00:51:14   cool that's cool Lisa what are you [TS]

00:51:17   reading [TS]

00:51:18   I've been doing a lot of ketchup because [TS]

00:51:19   this is actually the downside to [TS]

00:51:21   switching to trade format and away from [TS]

00:51:23   the flimsies yes I apologize again for [TS]

00:51:25   spoiling invincible no it's okay is some [TS]

00:51:28   it takes so long between compilation [TS]

00:51:31   sometimes that in order to really [TS]

00:51:32   appreciate what's the new 1i usually [TS]

00:51:34   have to go back one or two books just to [TS]

00:51:35   get a good head of steam the ipad [TS]

00:51:37   somehow putting on the cutting edge on [TS]

00:51:39   how to happen when i get my iPad i'm [TS]

00:51:40   probably back to single digits the [TS]

00:51:42   storage since the issue that's that's [TS]

00:51:44   not the bugbear for me anyway I'm I [TS]

00:51:46   recently caught up on scalp which is the [TS]

00:51:48   Ryan you are that's taking place in an [TS]

00:51:52   indication Aaron yes whom i love i think [TS]

00:51:54   is right is great [TS]

00:51:55   my only complaint is how he's handling [TS]

00:51:57   the main romantic relationship because [TS]

00:51:59   well he's not but some otherwise they're [TS]

00:52:03   the tension between tribal culture [TS]

00:52:06   obligation versus the surrounding an [TS]

00:52:09   encroaching Anglo culture and the [TS]

00:52:12   question of where your loyalties lie and [TS]

00:52:14   whose laws are you ultimately bound to [TS]

00:52:17   follow [TS]

00:52:17   he's done a great job of exploring those [TS]

00:52:19   tensions and seeing you know it's a huge [TS]

00:52:21   gap and seeing how people fall in that [TS]

00:52:23   gap and how they managed to climb out of [TS]

00:52:24   it [TS]

00:52:25   it's made for a really good series so [TS]

00:52:26   far I think they're up to six or seven [TS]

00:52:28   trades on my brother i sent him the [TS]

00:52:30   first five with a note saying you have [TS]

00:52:32   to read these and so I don't have those [TS]

00:52:33   to lend out anymore but I've been [TS]

00:52:34   following up [TS]

00:52:35   um I caught up on fables and i think i'm [TS]

00:52:39   out after after the most recent I'm [TS]

00:52:42   still way back in fables it really it [TS]

00:52:44   didn't go as I love it yeah I'm the [TS]

00:52:47   future is bleak a kick it sounds to me [TS]

00:52:51   as somebody who hasn't read more than a [TS]

00:52:53   few issues that there was a really [TS]

00:52:55   logical kind of endpoint yes there is [TS]

00:52:58   and then it's not going well i think yet [TS]

00:53:00   they vanquished the adversary and it [TS]

00:53:02   could have gotten very interesting after [TS]

00:53:04   that because obviously this huge power [TS]

00:53:06   golf word that we're just not used to a [TS]

00:53:07   decimal used to be but it didn't and you [TS]

00:53:09   have all these here and you know these [TS]

00:53:11   fairy tale people who are like okay I [TS]

00:53:13   can go back to my land and take it over [TS]

00:53:14   again and you have people who now lives [TS]

00:53:17   in Atlanta Palestine problem yeah it [TS]

00:53:19   basically is it basically is and given [TS]

00:53:21   that the red are used Israel as a [TS]

00:53:24   metaphor for how people should solve war [TS]

00:53:26   oh yeah huge fan of Israel it comes out [TS]

00:53:28   his work where we're off [TS]

00:53:30   Israel is wow yeah yeah huge fan of [TS]

00:53:34   Israel big basically says we're going to [TS]

00:53:36   work enough act like the Israelis do and [TS]

00:53:38   this is how we're going to win the war [TS]

00:53:39   and that's how they do because this is a [TS]

00:53:41   fantasy and but where it's gotten to now [TS]

00:53:47   it's there there's all sorts of magical [TS]

00:53:49   who do and and the witches are planning [TS]

00:53:52   different coos and now one main [TS]

00:53:55   character has become the paladin of the [TS]

00:53:58   avatar of Hope which just sounds like [TS]

00:53:59   like the kind of BS you'd find in a [TS]

00:54:01   really bad gene roddenberry Syfy series [TS]

00:54:04   yeah ouch like i said i'm out i read the [TS]

00:54:07   most recent i read the most recent [TS]

00:54:09   story arc and I thought this is hogwash [TS]

00:54:11   you again you have other options [TS]

00:54:15   yeah this is good what is it about their [TS]

00:54:16   i'm still reading on written which is [TS]

00:54:19   getting increasingly more complex all i [TS]

00:54:21   gotta catch up with that [TS]

00:54:22   yeah I really invited out yeah I'm as [TS]

00:54:24   mentioned on previous podcast I'm still [TS]

00:54:26   really i'm still unwritten and I've been [TS]

00:54:30   scribbling down recommendations the [TS]

00:54:31   whole time we've been talking so i [TS]

00:54:32   imagine the next time I come back I'm [TS]

00:54:33   gonna be like everything jason frasor [TS]

00:54:35   when talking about my inventory so i've [TS]

00:54:39   been reading chew on your recommend yeah [TS]

00:54:41   oh yeah I'm she's been kind of fun i [TS]

00:54:43   read the first issue and because it with [TS]

00:54:45   all the hype of two and read the first [TS]

00:54:47   issue and wasn't it's not for the weak [TS]

00:54:49   of somebody engage it's not for the weak [TS]

00:54:51   of some I'm just fascinated by how weird [TS]

00:54:53   a premise it is and and the first one [TS]

00:54:56   issue wasn't great but I bought I bought [TS]

00:54:57   the first trade i think it's a digital [TS]

00:54:59   trade my brothers and my brothers a [TS]

00:55:02   mighty fine five so yeah I think I'll [TS]

00:55:04   try the trade my brother sends me the [TS]

00:55:06   trades and it's another one where I you [TS]

00:55:08   kind of have to get used to the artwork [TS]

00:55:10   because it's definitely a ascetic [TS]

00:55:13   departure from the from the typical [TS]

00:55:14   types and flight style but it's a really [TS]

00:55:16   fun and at the risk of making it sound [TS]

00:55:19   like I'm eighteen people should get off [TS]

00:55:20   my lawn [TS]

00:55:21   it feels really young compared to a lot [TS]

00:55:23   of the stuff that's in the Marvel and DC [TS]

00:55:25   vs it's not it's a superpower story but [TS]

00:55:29   told really non traditionally it [TS]

00:55:31   actually in some ways to remind me of [TS]

00:55:33   the top ten love top to wear it's a [TS]

00:55:36   where it's like police [TS]

00:55:38   yeah yeah except that's a very [TS]

00:55:40   traditional intentionally traditional [TS]

00:55:43   story and she was like similar in that [TS]

00:55:46   it sort of super law enforcement but [TS]

00:55:48   really non-traditional which is what [TS]

00:55:50   terrible superpower to have it is not [TS]

00:55:52   just some edit then they say that you [TS]

00:55:54   know eating things in order to tell what [TS]

00:55:56   happened with the thing you ate is just [TS]

00:55:59   it's awful but it's hilarious so yeah [TS]

00:56:01   because it's not like you're restricted [TS]

00:56:03   just food no no it's crazy it's crazy [TS]

00:56:07   alright so yeah it's just and I did some [TS]

00:56:09   reading like I said the new mutants i [TS]

00:56:11   recently went through and reread I [TS]

00:56:13   should do that sometime I ready to do i [TS]

00:56:14   reread 1602 video game in which I like a [TS]

00:56:18   lot i never read that serious oh it's [TS]

00:56:19   good stick with that don't read the [TS]

00:56:21   sequel it's good no I read the sequel [TS]

00:56:22   and it was [TS]

00:56:23   pretty sorry but 16 1602 is very good [TS]

00:56:25   reward you for having a lot of Marvel [TS]

00:56:28   and knowledge it's like my it's like [TS]

00:56:29   neil gaiman love letter to the Marvel [TS]

00:56:31   Universe put in this hilarious context [TS]

00:56:34   of the traditional hydration and it is [TS]

00:56:37   it is very well done and it's [TS]

00:56:39   self-contained it's beautiful and I'm [TS]

00:56:41   not gonna just wonderful but there are [TS]

00:56:44   some plot twists in it that are [TS]

00:56:45   fantastic as well as some fake out plot [TS]

00:56:48   twists that are very amusing so i highly [TS]

00:56:51   recommend it is great it's neil gaiman [TS]

00:56:54   playing with those Marvel characters in [TS]

00:56:55   a very constrained style you read the [TS]

00:56:57   you know read the hardcover read the [TS]

00:56:58   trade and that's the story and that's [TS]

00:57:00   all you have is really respectful the [TS]

00:57:02   history of the characters of that being [TS]

00:57:03   overly differential yeah nice yeah i [TS]

00:57:05   think it sounds great i'm gonna go home [TS]

00:57:07   and read that that's it's a it's a good [TS]

00:57:09   one so i reread that the other the other [TS]

00:57:11   night and had a blast with ya all right [TS]

00:57:15   I think we've done enough damage for one [TS]

00:57:17   comma club but we will be back we are [TS]

00:57:19   going to do an episode of the [TS]

00:57:21   incomparable pretty soon about watchmen [TS]

00:57:23   we're going to talk about the classic [TS]

00:57:24   comic and what it means to us we [TS]

00:57:26   probably won't beat the movie too much [TS]

00:57:29   because that would be a whole other [TS]

00:57:31   podcast where we beat the movie to death [TS]

00:57:32   and we'll talk about the sequel's or the [TS]

00:57:34   prequels or whatever DC is doing next [TS]

00:57:36   watchman they watch the baby's coming [TS]

00:57:39   come and worship work baby roshan baby [TS]

00:57:42   night out who knows what they could be [TS]

00:57:44   doing but until then I want to thank my [TS]

00:57:48   fellow members of the comic book club [TS]

00:57:49   jason reitman thanks for being here [TS]

00:57:51   thanks for sharing the love and Lisa [TS]

00:57:54   Schmeisser thank you for being here [TS]

00:57:56   it was a delight to have you until next [TS]

00:57:59   time on the incomparable podcast on [TS]

00:58:00   Jason's no thanks for listening [TS]

00:58:02   [Music] [TS]

00:58:16   [Music] [TS]