The Incomparable

77: Women`s Libber

 

  this is jumping ahead a little bit but [TS]

  where we are running out of time so i [TS]

  wanna i wanna bring this up we'll just [TS]

  go back and do the podcast we will i'll [TS]

  just reset it will just really my lord [TS]

  will do it again and you guys what I [TS]

  will be older but you guys won't be any [TS]

  older this time I'll just kill Jason in [TS]

  the beginning in a graveyard [TS]

  thank goodness it'll be a much better [TS]

  podcast i'll solve all of our problems [TS]

  it says you'll have to the podcast [TS]

  the incomparable podcast number 77 [TS]

  everywhere we went well it's time for [TS]

  another incredible podcast and in [TS]

  addition of our book club [TS]

  I'm Jason smell the hosted be [TS]

  uncomfortable our topic today is the [TS]

  latest novel from prolific beloved [TS]

  author Stephen King this one is 11 22 63 [TS]

  a tale of time travel and and so much [TS]

  more [TS]

  joining me to discuss stephen king's [TS]

  latest are Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

  good evening it's great to have you here [TS]

  thank you it's a pleasure to be here [TS]

  also joining us finally on the same [TS]

  podcast serenity Caldwell hai Ram how [TS]

  you doing I'm doing pretty good how are [TS]

  you Jason I'm doing great it is it is [TS]

  great to finally have you and Lisa both [TS]

  on the same podcast now it's kind of [TS]

  it's here here i wonder if the universe [TS]

  will do something horrible like cause [TS]

  earthquakes or other nevermind nuclear [TS]

  and we'll get that will get out court [TS]

  the or or or worse accession of American [TS]

  States to Canada were basically said [TS]

  that like it's a bad thing [TS]

  this is true also joining me today are [TS]

  John siracusa hi John adjacent you're a [TS]

  huge Stephen King fan are you not i am [TS]

  i've read almost office blocks and [TS]

  that's a lot of books right yeah I've [TS]

  realized i haven't read that many of his [TS]

  books and I probably should should get [TS]

  get on that you should [TS]

  yeah I should and also joining us one [TS]

  final contestant Dain more'n hi dan I [TS]

  Jason good to be you just finished this [TS]

  book like 10 minutes ago right about [TS]

  about 20 minutes before this episode [TS]

  yeah yeah it was pretty close i applied [TS]

  to about 500 pages in the last day [TS]

  well the wire so that the the downside [TS]

  of that is that who knows what your [TS]

  recall is going to be like but the good [TS]

  side is you read it recently at least [TS]

  he's not just shouting incoherently Jim [TS]

  law gym like oh man [TS]

  III have a I read this at my mostly at [TS]

  my parents house when I was there for [TS]

  christmas and i had a I like a nightmare [TS]

  about joomla at one point of my god you [TS]

  look for a book that's not outwardly [TS]

  like a whore book there some terrifying [TS]

  parts of this boat is little moments so [TS]

  so I guess we should start at the [TS]

  beginning of this book obviously 11 22 [TS]

  63 is the day of the Kennedy [TS]

  assassination and this book is [TS]

  apparently a book that Stephen King [TS]

  originally thought about writing in 1971 [TS]

  and he didn't get around to it until [TS]

  2009-2010 when you read this book and [TS]

  it's about a a teacher in Maine of [TS]

  course its main who goes who has a guy [TS]

  who runs a diner who decides he would be [TS]

  a good candidate to go through a time [TS]

  portal and try to stop the Kennedy [TS]

  assassination [TS]

  of course how many of those books that [TS]

  we read is-7 and uh and a lot that part [TS]

  of it is really interesting because it's [TS]

  um it's very Stephen King it's it's it's [TS]

  so almost pedestrian and yet also [TS]

  outrageous at the same time that there's [TS]

  of course there's a guy who has a diner [TS]

  where in the storeroom there's a time [TS]

  portal to the nineteen fifties of course [TS]

  there is and then but what I like [TS]

  because I don't think about this sort of [TS]

  genre for stephen king is that he's got [TS]

  a very good grasp of of time-travel [TS]

  mechanics to the point where he the you [TS]

  know are our main our main character [TS]

  whose name is Jake Jake epping he he is [TS]

  much less familiar with Al the the guy [TS]

  who runs the diner analysis with him [TS]

  because Alice had many years to think [TS]

  about using Jake as a time-travel [TS]

  subject while he was doing his own his [TS]

  own time traveling whereas for Jake it's [TS]

  sort of like he sees al one day and then [TS]

  the next day Alice many years older and [TS]

  is about to die from lung cancer which [TS]

  hit you know and and so he sends them [TS]

  out on this mission to go through go [TS]

  through a time portal 2 1958 so we got [TS]

  the time portal and I think I think [TS]

  you're reading a Stephen King novel [TS]

  you're reading any kind of genre novel [TS]

  and you take the time portal in your [TS]

  alright so this time travel got it [TS]

  and yet one of the things that he hits [TS]

  you with right away is that there's this [TS]

  character there's this guy [TS]

  Yellowcard man just as you emerge from [TS]

  this time portal the first thing you see [TS]

  is this guy who seems to know that [TS]

  something is wrong and that you [TS]

  shouldn't be there [TS]

  so right away he does set that little [TS]

  that little point of you know it's not [TS]

  going to be in a it's not like this [TS]

  completely straight kind of I step back [TS]

  in time and i'm going to do some things [TS]

  like right away there's somebody [TS]

  standing there saying crazy things [TS]

  basically and then and yellow card man [TS]

  is trying to get money and so we can go [TS]

  buy something at the at the local liquor [TS]

  store i have i thought one of the really [TS]

  interesting things they caught me about [TS]

  Kings time-travel methodology here is [TS]

  that it's very heavily you know sort of [TS]

  repeated that every time someone goes [TS]

  through the time portal and then it is [TS]

  basically resets whatever the previous [TS]

  trip did right you can do is go back and [TS]

  change the fastest change the past as [TS]

  much as you want and when you come back [TS]

  to the future it will be changed but the [TS]

  next time you reenter the bubble it [TS]

  reverts hit the reset as you go back at [TS]

  the same time but yeah go ahead with the [TS]

  exact same moment that's just such a [TS]

  smart narrative can see because you can [TS]

  write yourself out of all sorts of sorts [TS]

  of dead ends or logical problems then [TS]

  you can just read the reset button we [TS]

  need yeah I think that's genius and love [TS]

  this it's also fascinating to because [TS]

  it's so different from a lot of the poor [TS]

  trails of time-travel words you know you [TS]

  know he doesn't have to go back and stop [TS]

  himself from doing something right now [TS]

  it's like a family has to be worked [TS]

  through it and am you know although as [TS]

  we find out very much later in the book [TS]

  it's not necessarily a reset more as it [TS]

  is a fork but but yeah but for all [TS]

  practical purposes it's there's a [TS]

  residue that's left but for all [TS]

  practical purposes it's a reset and and [TS]

  the the downside of that is we see [TS]

  immediately without where Alice dying of [TS]

  lung cancer and al has taken several [TS]

  trips [TS]

  actually it turns out that al has been [TS]

  getting why is the meat in Alice diner [TS]

  so cheap [TS]

  he's been getting in 1915 prices 1958 [TS]

  and it keeps buying the same meet over [TS]

  and over again because he could just [TS]

  keeps resetting but now all spent so [TS]

  much time there that he ages rapidly by [TS]

  modern standards and yet at the same [TS]

  time he kind of hasn't done anything [TS]

  because every time he enters its just a [TS]

  reset so you get the sense right right [TS]

  up front that you're investing um you [TS]

  know you're investing your life in the [TS]

  time travel and if it doesn't work out [TS]

  the way you like it will be thrown away [TS]

  right and it's also important to note [TS]

  that no matter how long you're gone in [TS]

  the past [TS]

  you're only ever gone two minutes in [TS]

  from the present you know when when Jake [TS]

  steps back through the time portal he's [TS]

  only been gone a very short while and [TS]

  the same way that a lonely appears to go [TS]

  away for you know tonight or whatever [TS]

  and it comes back in his you know or [TS]

  five years older [TS]

  this would have been a whole different [TS]

  book if he had written it back in the [TS]

  seventies compared to when he wrote it [TS]

  now [TS]

  and he was lazy and and addicted to [TS]

  drugs and alcohol back then so you [TS]

  wouldn't know what are you survive and [TS]

  not quite that what I was gonna say is [TS]

  if he had written in the seventies it [TS]

  would have ended up being more epic in [TS]

  scope like the stand i think because the [TS]

  stan has this real young man's energy to [TS]

  it i feel this this very brash very [TS]

  black-and-white good versus evil and [TS]

  this book is so nuanced when it compares [TS]

  to what is the greater good vs water all [TS]

  the small goods how do we decide what's [TS]

  good and what's evil and like he has no [TS]

  problem drawing those lines and making [TS]

  those distinctions in his earlier work [TS]

  but you get to something like under the [TS]

  dome or 11 22 63 and there's all these [TS]

  questions about well how do we know that [TS]

  the actions we take her good when we can [TS]

  see that the consequences and the [TS]

  outcomes are bad and it has a more [TS]

  middle-aged i'm i'm taking stock of my [TS]

  life feel to it just just as an [TS]

  undercurrent which is kind of disturbing [TS]

  when you think that the protagonist is [TS]

  somebody in their late thirties early [TS]

  forties he has an arc as an author but i [TS]

  think the be the beginning of this book [TS]

  it i think this is stephen king and his [TS]

  best where he has the the time-travel it [TS]

  doesn't explain that and I got all this [TS]

  you know I there's some sort of these [TS]

  things like an experiment in the [TS]

  government experiment out of this [TS]

  without explanation is it bring this [TS]

  isn't this mechanical I like that [TS]

  there's no explanation because it's what [TS]

  we know you don't get distracted by the [TS]

  formal logic [TS]

  yeah we realigned in the book where he [TS]

  talks about where a Jake talks about [TS]

  going back to teaching and how much it [TS]

  fills of me says I won't try to explain [TS]

  it because explanation is such cheap [TS]

  poetry [TS]

  yeah that for that caught me on the way [TS]

  to say it's a great line and you just [TS]

  like well you know it's sort of you know [TS]

  resonates with this book to we don't [TS]

  need to know why the time travel works [TS]

  only that it does and it's got its got a [TS]

  hint of whimsy to it as well because he [TS]

  loves he loves a little bit of whimsy [TS]

  like that that selling the same [TS]

  hamburger to the people over and over [TS]

  again that's the classic Stephen and the [TS]

  whole how heat so he doesn't want to [TS]

  explain it but how we lovingly describes [TS]

  the mechanics of feeling for the step [TS]

  and going down through that is just [TS]

  straight-up stephen king at his best [TS]

  later on the book i'll talk about [TS]

  stephen king is worst I and a little [TS]

  hint of the slightly older stephen king [TS]

  is the yellow card man because that [TS]

  night [TS]

  it's kind of weird i don't have read [TS]

  nearly as many books as most of the [TS]

  other people who are normal a book club [TS]

  contributors but the vast majority of [TS]

  novels that I've rather probably stephen [TS]

  king books and he's written a lot of [TS]

  books where and when you read this many [TS]

  novels by a single author and especially [TS]

  if you're not as well read where it's [TS]

  not like one of many authors that you [TS]

  read like all their novels I i feel like [TS]

  i'm sure many of his is constant readers [TS]

  feel like they know this guy and I know [TS]

  his bag of tricks i feel like i know its [TS]

  bag of tricks and he knows that I know [TS]

  that he knows you know what i mean and [TS]

  so it's kind of like this dance or it's [TS]

  like reading a stephen king book is like [TS]

  kind of sitting down with an old friend [TS]

  you're going to do this thing together [TS]

  and I continue to get that feeling with [TS]

  this book and the beginning part it's [TS]

  kind of like you remember this part is [TS]

  like yeah yes the good stuff right [TS]

  listen this time travel stuff with the [TS]

  resets and the rules and in the yellow [TS]

  card man it's like all right that's [TS]

  that's an oldie but he's you know you've [TS]

  seen that before what I'm doing that [TS]

  again all right i'm good i'm with you so [TS]

  it was it got off on the right foot i [TS]

  think all right also though I guess even [TS]

  I noticed that there by visiting dairy [TS]

  which is a town that he's used before [TS]

  that this is apparently an it reference [TS]

  right all there's a i was about to say [TS]

  it is a beautiful call back to the it [TS]

  universe which is a beautiful but as [TS]

  somebody who has not read it and and had [TS]

  to look it up later just because it I i [TS]

  was curious about what he might be [TS]

  referencing there I i think i think the [TS]

  dairy stuff i mean i knew that because [TS]

  it was in Derry that it that's a town [TS]

  that he's visited in many of his books [TS]

  but you know it the dairy stuff more or [TS]

  less work for me because the idea is [TS]

  that he's chasing down this first this [TS]

  character who sort of the one with the [TS]

  kid the the janitor at his scoring [TS]

  Dunning yeah who is who was a head as [TS]

  siblings and mother killed by his father [TS]

  and and got the hammer you know that [TS]

  stuff with the where there's the storm [TS]

  drain and there's evil in the town isn't [TS]

  very friendly [TS]

  that's actually I can just say I thought [TS]

  that was effectively creepy without you [TS]

  thinking that it was a reference to a [TS]

  book i did I i agree definitely and like [TS]

  like Jason I haven't read yet but i knew [TS]

  a little bit about it from again for the [TS]

  dark tower but I i looked up some of it [TS]

  and I [TS]

  think what's important about it even if [TS]

  you haven't read it is that there are so [TS]

  much in there that sort of ate a [TS]

  foreshadowing of dairy and dallas which [TS]

  you know keeps coming up those two [TS]

  cities are linked [TS]

  I'm your book depository in the storm [TS]

  drain and even Beverly and and Richie [TS]

  and later on in the book we have that a [TS]

  Mike and Bobby Jill who are sort of sort [TS]

  of parallels there's also you know the [TS]

  fact that when when Jake first comes [TS]

  upon a bevy and Richie they're dancing [TS]

  right which is a u.s. huge part of the [TS]

  book constantly coming up and I sort of [TS]

  think yeah he likes tying stuff in and I [TS]

  think there's a there's a certain degree [TS]

  of that that's that's rewarding for a [TS]

  lot of readers I love finding you know [TS]

  modules and references in books from [TS]

  authors that refer to previous things [TS]

  you know it's a part of the reason i [TS]

  love reading series of books so much [TS]

  because there's a continuity to it but I [TS]

  think even if you aren't familiar in [TS]

  depth with that particular work i agree [TS]

  with Jason that it's it's effective [TS]

  creepy to hold the whole Gary scenes you [TS]

  know that I just really they're just [TS]

  places that are sold with bad juju yeah [TS]

  yeah all this money and it's it was [TS]

  eerie i was reading it a night like [TS]

  before with the bed nose like man I [TS]

  don't really want to go to sleep creepy [TS]

  book i'm surprised that dairy section [TS]

  work so well for you who didn't who [TS]

  haven't read it because that's what I [TS]

  was thinking when I was reading and I'm [TS]

  like okay I get this because i read [TS]

  another thousand-page book but pity the [TS]

  more people who you know need the poor [TS]

  people who don't know I I thought I [TS]

  think the two kids who are apparently [TS]

  characters in it i think our are [TS]

  effective in that they are trying to [TS]

  find some sort of life and are obviously [TS]

  struggling against some darkness in this [TS]

  terrible town and I find I and it's got [TS]

  the dancing which it becomes relevant [TS]

  later and that the sense that this town [TS]

  is permeated by unfriendliness and evil [TS]

  and then you know moving on from the [TS]

  references part of this to talk about [TS]

  the dairy section of this book is also [TS]

  Jake's first first run at changing [TS]

  history where he ended and it [TS]

  foreshadows what's going to happen which [TS]

  is he is very careful to wait until he [TS]

  has all the information possible to you [TS]

  know he has his run-ins with game [TS]

  there's an underworld types which is [TS]

  going to come back later he he has this [TS]

  trial run where he waits to the last [TS]

  minute to try and intercede and prevent [TS]

  the government father for killing the [TS]

  mother and the kids and he does all of [TS]

  that and goes back and then resets and [TS]

  does it again and what's interesting is [TS]

  instead of being there at the moment [TS]

  where this thing is going to happen in [TS]

  order to intercede when he goes back the [TS]

  next time he sort of got all the [TS]

  information he needs he realizes that [TS]

  the father is just a bad guy and he's [TS]

  going to kill his whole family except [TS]

  the one kid and he just he goes to him [TS]

  months before and in like a desert [TS]

  graveyard and just killed him rather [TS]

  than defending the people he just [TS]

  decided I'm gonna go back which i think [TS]

  is interesting but he goes through all [TS]

  of this and then hit the reset button [TS]

  and decides I didn't need all that [TS]

  information this guy's just a bad guy [TS]

  i'm just going to do what he's done all [TS]

  the research [TS]

  yeah he wanted to be sure which is what [TS]

  happens with Lee Harvey Oswald is the [TS]

  jake wants to be sure that there's not [TS]

  somebody there's not a conspiracy that [TS]

  it's just this one guy right one [TS]

  Al makes that very clear he's like you [TS]

  have to be absolutely sure because what [TS]

  happens if you screw up and then [TS]

  president still get shot and then [TS]

  everything still goes to hell or well it [TS]

  doesn't quite jell with the present but [TS]

  what we all assume that the guy who [TS]

  killed his family he wanted to be sure [TS]

  because he's like geez I'm like killing [TS]

  this guy yea he's a bad guy and [TS]

  everything but like is he really gonna [TS]

  kill his family and like is he you know [TS]

  he pissy had to commit you know it's not [TS]

  easy to work it's not easy to work [TS]

  yourself up to kill somebody right it's [TS]

  not until he gets confirmation that he's [TS]

  already killed one family that he [TS]

  actually gets the gumption to go ahead [TS]

  and pull the trigger [TS]

  yeah it's not your first time employee [TS]

  witnesses it [TS]

  I'm once again also have surprised that [TS]

  it works well for everybody else but for [TS]

  people who have read it as Lisa was [TS]

  saying there's extra residents to those [TS]

  characters because you know I don't want [TS]

  to spoil it for people didn't read it [TS]

  but it's not that you're not meeting [TS]

  them [TS]

  I after the events of the book and [TS]

  you're not meeting before the events [TS]

  that you're basically meeting them amid [TS]

  steam at events of the book and there's [TS]

  a sadness to that that [TS]

  you wouldn't get it unless you read that [TS]

  other thousand-page book or read the [TS]

  wikipedia entry on remember that whole [TS]

  thing with someone's mindedness there's [TS]

  a creepiness to that I want to get into [TS]

  it that's all the projects but but but [TS]

  yeah I using dairy is a character named [TS]

  King loves inanimate things as [TS]

  characters houses afterwards towns towns [TS]

  characters and dairy was a character in [TS]

  this book and I think it helped [TS]

  it's a kind of a cheap but it helped the [TS]

  dairy beat at not their help Dallas [TS]

  become more character because analysis [TS]

  has not been heavily featured in past [TS]

  books but comparing it to dairy it's [TS]

  like oh Jesus is like the dairy of the [TS]

  South already move you've already been [TS]

  primed you know you've got a frame of [TS]

  reference that makes it easier to sketch [TS]

  it out a little bit as opposed to happen [TS]

  to go through and frankly do a lot of [TS]

  research the best story and well i think [TS]

  in general [TS]

  Stephen King does a very good job [TS]

  personifying every single town that we [TS]

  visit in the past and makes it very [TS]

  clear this is this type of town in some [TS]

  ka in some ways the people we talked to [TS]

  and the kite like getting the Sun liner [TS]

  in the very first little town in Maine [TS]

  you instantly get the picture that kind [TS]

  of place and dairy you start to get the [TS]

  creepy time-travel ish stuff and dairy [TS]

  and how things can go wrong in the [TS]

  obdurate past and that kind of carries [TS]

  over i feel like it snowballs as you go [TS]

  from town to town to town but he hasn't [TS]

  really really great personification of [TS]

  each town the difference between Jody in [TS]

  dallas and for even for were or if you [TS]

  yeah they're all very clear pictures of [TS]

  each city despite i mean i don't think [TS]

  i've been to I've been to dallas very [TS]

  briefly but aside from that you get a [TS]

  very clear picture of how he wants these [TS]

  towns to look at this point in time [TS]

  yeah I let's let's move ahead then to [TS]

  Jodi to Texas and and specifically to [TS]

  the small town where he becomes an [TS]

  English teacher and I guess he's briefly [TS]

  in Florida but you know that really the [TS]

  important doesn't work out that doesn't [TS]

  work out now and get the sense of he [TS]

  needs to move on before the final and [TS]

  it's a good experience of showing like [TS]

  this time travel thing he doesn't quite [TS]

  have [TS]

  a knack of it yet like he's a good [TS]

  enough to get out of there alive but he [TS]

  realizes he kind of messed up yeah he's [TS]

  always learning the ropes of this [TS]

  time-travel think he's only beginning to [TS]

  understand what he doesn't know and very [TS]

  cleverly by setting the time portal in [TS]

  1958 Stephen King makes the not only [TS]

  cranks up the UH that the jeopardy of of [TS]

  messing up because you have to live [TS]

  through five years in order to get to [TS]

  the date of the assassination but it [TS]

  also gives him time to have his [TS]

  character moved to this town and meet [TS]

  these people because really that this is [TS]

  what the book is about this is the book [TS]

  is about this guy and the relationships [TS]

  that he makes in the past and while he's [TS]

  got the this mission of his from the [TS]

  future hanging over his head so I you [TS]

  know I think this is a really charming [TS]

  section where you've got these people [TS]

  and you know he's meeting all the all [TS]

  the people at the school in in in Jodi [TS]

  and he sort of accidentally becomes more [TS]

  entwined with their their lives and [TS]

  their culture than he's really intended [TS]

  because he's thinking I'm you know I'm [TS]

  gonna lay low i'm from the future i'm [TS]

  here on a mission and of course he ends [TS]

  up being completely intertwined in the [TS]

  in the life of this small town and [TS]

  because it is a small town and there's [TS]

  nothing he can do about it and he and he [TS]

  gets to know all these people and he [TS]

  falls in love with the do the new school [TS]

  librarian who is Sadie and you know I i [TS]

  really like this part III this is going [TS]

  to be one of those things that I think [TS]

  depending on what you want out of a book [TS]

  like this you may view this as being I [TS]

  don't know I i think people might view [TS]

  this as being an interminable section [TS]

  where he's really not advancing his his [TS]

  mission very much and instead he's just [TS]

  getting to know the people but I [TS]

  actually love this part [TS]

  I think if you think that you're not [TS]

  reading is there something wrong read ya [TS]

  heart the whole point of the segment is [TS]

  to is to set up his personal stakes [TS]

  because remember out picked him because [TS]

  he like well Jake you have nobody here [TS]

  you have no attachments you kind of [TS]

  lightly on this town anyway no one is [TS]

  really going to miss you [TS]

  and then he goes back to the past and [TS]

  there are all of a sudden a lot of [TS]

  people who know about him and his [TS]

  welfare and they won't miss them and [TS]

  they will care and unfortunately this [TS]

  this develops right around the same time [TS]

  that he's got to start surveilling [TS]

  Oswald and carrying out an assassination [TS]

  and I think it raises the dramatic [TS]

  sticks and also shows what other [TS]

  whatever growth he's going to have as a [TS]

  protagonist over the course of the book [TS]

  to its it's absolutely necessary and [TS]

  also sets up that you know I think what [TS]

  manages to be a rather heartbreaking [TS]

  story in in many ways right you know [TS]

  yeah that the the final chapter oh yes [TS]

  even even even before that you know the [TS]

  part where you guys talking it I would [TS]

  yeah i was there that I mean it needs to [TS]

  be an easy that invested right in order [TS]

  for you to feel strongly about those [TS]

  characters and like these carrots well I [TS]

  meanwhile the clock is ticking down [TS]

  right i mean that's the great beauty [TS]

  beauty is you've got this nice story [TS]

  that on it on its own would be a nice [TS]

  story but we know where Jake is really [TS]

  from you know when we do know that he's [TS]

  kind of a rootless guy and he had his [TS]

  alcoholic wife they got divorced from a [TS]

  nice there's nobody to miss him and and [TS]

  now he's putting down roots and he's [TS]

  making these connections and that would [TS]

  be a nice story but you've got the book [TS]

  is 11 22 63 right [TS]

  the clock is ticking and you know that [TS]

  for him to fulfill his mission that uh [TS]

  that everything is going to be there he [TS]

  can't you know that there's an a clear [TS]

  expiration date on his relationships [TS]

  with these people which is makes it that [TS]

  much more affecting for this longer [TS]

  section [TS]

  the reason I think it needs to be longer [TS]

  like this and you thought maybe see [TS]

  people think it was interminable is [TS]

  because it's it is the equivalent of the [TS]

  movie where you have the cowboy go live [TS]

  with the Indians or even something like [TS]

  avatar whatever he's on a mission but [TS]

  the mission takes a long time and he has [TS]

  to become integrated with these people [TS]

  during the mission and he goes no [TS]

  comparison for building the barn and [TS]

  witness the heart of heaven Costner in [TS]

  Dances with Wolves he goes native and [TS]

  yeah the long term missions it's hard to [TS]

  stay on mission for a long time so he [TS]

  ends up is I'm integrating into the [TS]

  native population and learning [TS]

  and then eventually you you wake up and [TS]

  you're Kevin Costner and you're wearing [TS]

  a feather on your head or whatever it [TS]

  may be you know you've actually John [TS]

  you've actually raised i'm not even sure [TS]

  I called a criticism is just something [TS]

  that tickle the back of my head is you [TS]

  have somebody who's in the early forties [TS]

  who is now accustomed to world of [TS]

  instantaneous wireless connectivity with [TS]

  the internet and and a world of cable TV [TS]

  and everything that entails to and your [TS]

  flung backwards to a time where you [TS]

  don't have that many choices and [TS]

  entertainment and you are stuck with the [TS]

  periodic to hear you're stuck with the [TS]

  card catalog the library if you need to [TS]

  find something and it's just a radically [TS]

  different way of living and this guy [TS]

  seems to seamlessly acclimate well and I [TS]

  don't have seamlessly do I i actually [TS]

  think that Stephen King does a pretty [TS]

  good job throughout of depicting the [TS]

  about neither saying oh it was a better [TS]

  time a simpler time [TS]

  no I'm not saying that it's just it's [TS]

  just rather he lives really easily in a [TS]

  period and and perhaps just speaks to [TS]

  the people i know who go into cold [TS]

  sweats if they don't if they don't have [TS]

  internet access for 24 he does he does [TS]

  throw his phone and a pond it's sort of [TS]

  a ceremonial dumping of I i think it's a [TS]

  personality type that because he's that [TS]

  he's an English teacher remember he's [TS]

  not a tech nerd he's not even a geek of [TS]

  any kind you all these people who say [TS]

  boy I think I would be happier in a [TS]

  simpler time out for some of them i [TS]

  think it's true it's just gonna be [TS]

  exhausting trying to remember that you [TS]

  can never talk about the Carolina [TS]

  Panther also keep in mind the gym that [TS]

  uh that al al leaves him a a big file [TS]

  with his research in it which is stephen [TS]

  king's way of not having him have whole [TS]

  scenes where he's incredibly frustrated [TS]

  by trying to remember things that are [TS]

  happening or doing even more research [TS]

  using archaic research techniques sort [TS]

  of just as there's a file so let's he [TS]

  doesn't need to do all that you don't [TS]

  need another the other thing that's [TS]

  really really interesting about this and [TS]

  I thought about what while reading this [TS]

  is sorta jumps around glosses over parts [TS]

  right you know there are a couple points [TS]

  was like I was here for a while that [TS]

  left here from well I left and I thought [TS]

  well that's weird you know like this is [TS]

  really how much of this like closer [TS]

  we're going to get various points here [TS]

  but what's important to consider and you [TS]

  sort of start to get hints for this is [TS]

  that this is all written by him right [TS]

  after the fact [TS]

  right yeah it makes several references [TS]

  to the unfinished manuscript and oh well [TS]

  you're reading this [TS]

  yeah exactly that's totally a dress to [TS]

  people it's totally his recollections of [TS]

  it right and so we learned at a very [TS]

  specific point in the book that he [TS]

  hasn't been as good at blending in as he [TS]

  thought he was right so I think that's [TS]

  that significant in terms of him as a [TS]

  narrator in that not that he's [TS]

  unreliable precisely but that is not [TS]

  ready for my vantage point of that is [TS]

  not like as these things are happening [TS]

  to him right and so he does think that [TS]

  you know it does seem like he blends in [TS]

  really well and certainly there are [TS]

  things that he takes two very much in [TS]

  this in this environment but you know [TS]

  you do get hints of the things that he [TS]

  regresses a couple times was like God I [TS]

  would have killed for have a cell phone [TS]

  right now because I really would have [TS]

  solved my problem it's and i think that [TS]

  the fact that he that he is telling this [TS]

  from some sort of you know after the [TS]

  fact perspective is is very significant [TS]

  in terms of how we see his character [TS]

  the only thing that kind of tickled at [TS]

  me through the jodi sequence as well is [TS]

  first and forgive the clumsy phrasing [TS]

  its kind of the a white male privilege [TS]

  you are so convenient but I know that [TS]

  that's about it it's like I like that [TS]

  guess I thought that was a realistic [TS]

  yeah you know there's there's there's [TS]

  the throw a reference to oh there was [TS]

  the one gas station i stopped where all [TS]

  those poor colored people had to win [TS]

  their way through a thicket of poison [TS]

  oak and gopi over a stream while I got [TS]

  to use the restroom but right but that's [TS]

  also been judging right that's also i'm [TS]

  saying this is beating but but by and [TS]

  large it doesn't affect him directly [TS]

  well but he accepts the other parts of [TS]

  the experience because he's like I well [TS]

  I am a white male [TS]

  so really for a white male privilege how [TS]

  convenient URL was not gonna send a [TS]

  black woman back in time to that work [TS]

  but because not so much like this [TS]

  privilege heat because he's insulated by [TS]

  the privilege I i guess from a narrative [TS]

  perspective it makes it very easy [TS]

  because then you can sidestep authority [TS]

  questions like sure life was great [TS]

  if you're white and male but you know if [TS]

  your if your sale single white female [TS]

  who couldn't [TS]

  can get her own line of credit yeah 1860 [TS]

  how easy or how hard would it have been [TS]

  to be someone like Sadie or if you're an [TS]

  african-american man they still had the [TS]

  camera it's called the green pages of [TS]

  the green book but up until very [TS]

  recently in the u.s. there was a company [TS]

  that actually published a directory of [TS]

  african-american friendly businesses for [TS]

  traveling african-american families [TS]

  because you were talking about a time [TS]

  when people could be turned away from [TS]

  hotels and restaurants nearby have a lot [TS]

  right Stephen King and the good thing [TS]

  about this is he doesn't shy away from [TS]

  it and he has Jake basically I that [TS]

  that's one of the things that he always [TS]

  notices is that is as idyllic as his [TS]

  life is he that this is this is what I [TS]

  appreciate is that he King shows both [TS]

  sides there are things about the [TS]

  simplistic you know why for the simpler [TS]

  life of that time that he appreciates [TS]

  and they're things that are bad and you [TS]

  know it's just different and things [TS]

  about our good and thinks about her bad [TS]

  when we leave Jody and we see him on his [TS]

  mission spending time in Fort Worth and [TS]

  then in Dallas you know he's showing a [TS]

  very different kind of environment [TS]

  that's a really kind of a miserable or [TS]

  unfriendly environment this is the [TS]

  environment that lee harvey oswald is [TS]

  living well and I think he doesn't gloss [TS]

  over how hard it is to be you know an [TS]

  unattached female right like well they [TS]

  say that he has not had things easy you [TS]

  know and i think he goes into a lot of [TS]

  detail about that and about just how [TS]

  miserable her life has been in many ways [TS]

  and I think that's you know she's a [TS]

  great character I honestly I know he [TS]

  doesn't do a great job of amplifying the [TS]

  social pressures and how they could [TS]

  undermine near your support networks [TS]

  because say to you remember after [TS]

  Sadie's the incident that shapes city [TS]

  for the subsequent remainder of the [TS]

  narrative her mother comes out after [TS]

  having carpooled with her attackers [TS]

  parents my mother comes out and upgrades [TS]

  her for four controllers and she's gonna [TS]

  get fired from her job because she was [TS]

  attacked and I can't you can't have that [TS]

  that was that was the killer for me like [TS]

  that the part where I'm like all come on [TS]

  that they really with this really like [TS]

  someone has attacked and disable the [TS]

  school board's gotta fire announced too [TS]

  much of a scandal [TS]

  oh yeah oh yeah absolutely plus I kind [TS]

  of believe that from a small town [TS]

  respective I kind of beliefs and also [TS]

  they're in town abs label yeah I mean I [TS]

  and I think you [TS]

  Oh given that I i feel like i said i [TS]

  think sadie is a great character and I [TS]

  think you know if you don't fall over [TS]

  there at least a little bit while [TS]

  reading this then you probably aren't [TS]

  you know our talk to probably dead [TS]

  you're probably dead inside but i think [TS]

  you know they're I i think you know [TS]

  without making it a book that's overly [TS]

  about look how awful racism was in the [TS]

  South in you know the fifties and [TS]

  sixties which you know there could have [TS]

  been a book there there's never an [TS]

  answer anybody's yessir many books when [TS]

  he could have written that book but you [TS]

  know it was not that book and so I think [TS]

  he does you know the references to it [TS]

  might seem a little glancing but i think [TS]

  they do inform a lot of what the setting [TS]

  of this book is and part of what makes [TS]

  for example Dallas such a disturbing [TS]

  town in many ways is this whole [TS]

  pervading element of that even if it's [TS]

  not something that we're constantly beat [TS]

  over the head [TS]

  I'm actually impressed at how little [TS]

  like the helmet few references to the [TS]

  politics of the age and all of that he [TS]

  manages to slide in but still managed to [TS]

  paint the overall picture of the various [TS]

  towns and the way society was at that [TS]

  point in time because I mean you could [TS]

  have with a with a book about the [TS]

  Kennedy assassination you could have [TS]

  gone much more deeply into the whole [TS]

  Harvey Oswald thing instead you get kind [TS]

  of a third-party perspective of the [TS]

  leaflets and you hear a couple [TS]

  conversations when Jake's listening on [TS]

  the omnidirectional microphone but on [TS]

  the whole there's not a lot of yes this [TS]

  is how people were feeling this is how [TS]

  people hate you know the president this [TS]

  is what why people love the present you [TS]

  skip a lot of that the other than the [TS]

  the Cuban Missile Crisis which is an a [TS]

  nice little worried a little bit where [TS]

  you get that sense of living through it [TS]

  and he's living through it realizing how [TS]

  upsetting it is two people at the time [TS]

  and you know he knows how it turns out [TS]

  hey but they don't but other than that [TS]

  really mean that that's that's the one [TS]

  that's the one that struck me that that [TS]

  that he's watching as as people lived [TS]

  through that and they're very upset on [TS]

  the sexism thing one last time i'd say [TS]

  they did the one on one aspect of it i [TS]

  thought that illuminated Jake's [TS]

  character and I don't even know it was [TS]

  intentional notice that so Jake is [TS]

  from the future and he's having this [TS]

  relationship with past lady and passed [TS]

  lady for all her modernity still is a [TS]

  product of the gender roles of her time [TS]

  and I thought that Jake seemed a little [TS]

  bit too okay with that [TS]

  like that he's yeah you know it's ready [TS]

  but I you would think when I'm reading [TS]

  this I'm thinking boy if I was in the [TS]

  future and I was dealing with a female [TS]

  who was like this I would constantly be [TS]

  saying you know you have rights and you [TS]

  shouldn't you be trying to turn them [TS]

  into the river and liver because like [TS]

  you don't want to put on like not gonna [TS]

  sometimes to you know it's so quite to [TS]

  hear the phrase women's liver it's easy [TS]

  to fall into the role of like well you [TS]

  know what hey this is kind of nice [TS]

  she defers to me it makes me food and [TS]

  that like you're planning a beer [TS]

  yeah that's damning to jakes character [TS]

  or just a general you know the male [TS]

  characters like intellectually you might [TS]

  know it's wrong but when you're in that [TS]

  environment you have someone who's just [TS]

  happy to serve you and you're like what [TS]

  you know what i find it and that's I [TS]

  thought that was a great comment it was [TS]

  whether it was intentional or not you [TS]

  know and again [TS]

  Oh white male privilege you are so [TS]

  convenient yeah responsive think Jake's [TS]

  a good guy but he he doesn't he doesn't [TS]

  protest too much about that although i [TS]

  could just stay here forever and let [TS]

  Kennedy be assassinated and lick this [TS]

  awesome life that I found with these [TS]

  people right and yeah and not worry too [TS]

  much about like Sadie I want you to get [TS]

  away from your horrible former husband [TS]

  but don't you know it's okay if you stay [TS]

  kind of like 50-60 woman you know you [TS]

  don't have to go fully up to believe in [TS]

  your equal human being with me as long [TS]

  as you don't ask me to do the dishes [TS]

  baby whenever he so so what happens [TS]

  one of the things that happens [TS]

  throughout his trip his travels in the [TS]

  past is this sense that the the past [TS]

  doesn't want to be changed right what [TS]

  want to see what does he call it is that [TS]

  the obdurate out here after after it [TS]

  passed which I really liked that I mean [TS]

  we've seen that in time travel stories [TS]

  before but I i really like that that [TS]

  that there will be some degree you know [TS]

  of of resistance from the past and so [TS]

  the conflict in the story isn't [TS]

  necessarily you know jake versus lee [TS]

  harvey oswald it's like jake versus [TS]

  history right vs [TS]

  the timeline versus what actually [TS]

  happened and he has to try and overcome [TS]

  what actually happened and there are a [TS]

  lot of kind of nice moments where I you [TS]

  know terrible things happen to him [TS]

  especially when he's rushing to try and [TS]

  get to dealey plaza on the day of where [TS]

  one ridiculous thing after another [TS]

  unbelievable the obstacles that history [TS]

  keeps throwing it sits like a final [TS]

  destination movie at that point right [TS]

  it's like everything is going to go [TS]

  wrong yeah but I love in previous [TS]

  instances of the book they're very you [TS]

  know he's very frustrated by the object [TS]

  passes like i'll keep continually [TS]

  hitting up against a wall and moving [TS]

  through fog but on that day they're [TS]

  basically just like gap the past is [TS]

  gonna try and stop us [TS]

  let's just roll with it it isn't that [TS]

  their didn't really feel like there were [TS]

  any snakes until you actually got into [TS]

  the building where as in previous like [TS]

  when we had the runs it was kinda like [TS]

  you know when you when you realize that [TS]

  you're you know skating on marbles or [TS]

  whatever it's like is there's no other [TS]

  option right now you just gotta go with [TS]

  it you just gotta roll that you [TS]

  yeah plus the biggest source of internal [TS]

  tension for him was gone because he had [TS]

  managed to convince say that he wasn't a [TS]

  raving lunatic he was in fact the guy [TS]

  from the future meant to kill the [TS]

  president the future and what she was [TS]

  okay with that and you convince himself [TS]

  that oswald was the only deserve to die [TS]

  got ya [TS]

  honestly I think I wish he would have [TS]

  shot Oswald mom too because she was just [TS]

  a piece of work [TS]

  oh my gosh so penetrating Oswald is [TS]

  fascinating because you know i i'm not [TS]

  sure how how clearview people have Lee [TS]

  Harvey Oswald as it as with many books [TS]

  that we've discussed on this on the on [TS]

  this podcast I'm not sure with her [TS]

  whether you know I he did a lot of [TS]

  research for this so I'm gonna just [TS]

  assume that I learned some interesting [TS]

  things about sort of how Lee Harvey [TS]

  Oswald came to be and his and his you [TS]

  know and I thought that was fascinating [TS]

  to get a little idea of this guy and and [TS]

  and to see you can kind of see how we [TS]

  ended up the way he he did but that's [TS]

  not to say that you really have a lot of [TS]

  sympathy for you know what's a little [TS]

  freaky was was reading you know i'm [TS]

  reading the book last night and you know [TS]

  maybe halfway through at that point and [TS]

  talking about a house walls and his [TS]

  family and it suddenly occurs to me like [TS]

  his daughter must still be alive right [TS]

  and his wife are like Google [TS]

  wife isn't really good he's going i know [TS]

  i know i don't like his wife is still [TS]

  but that kind of struck me was like [TS]

  because I'd forgotten that i was reading [TS]

  a historical fiction book that you know [TS]

  but that is about real PDF and so it was [TS]

  kind of there was a bizarre moment of [TS]

  like you know going to bed last night [TS]

  and read the book and suddenly realizing [TS]

  i mean this isn't entirely fiction [TS]

  this is a lot of this is no factual so [TS]

  one of the things again given that this [TS]

  book is called 11 22 63 i think one of [TS]

  the interesting effects that I felt as I [TS]

  read it was as it got started I was very [TS]

  excited about oh he's gonna go back in [TS]

  time and what's gonna happen one of the [TS]

  mechanics of him changing and [TS]

  interceding in the in the assassination [TS]

  and what's that gonna mean and i found [TS]

  after he left [TS]

  Jody and was focused entirely on Dallas [TS]

  as the events got closer that i was [TS]

  struck that I was not as interested as I [TS]

  was in a it in Jake's life and his [TS]

  interpersonal relationships and it's [TS]

  funny and he's piece put it [TS]

  they're all they're all constrained or [TS]

  they're all that you know he's having [TS]

  problems in his relationship with Sadie [TS]

  at that point and he sort of falling out [TS]

  with the people because they found out [TS]

  that he falsified his his records as you [TS]

  do when you're a time traveler but they [TS]

  did anybody else have that have that [TS]

  feeling like by the time I got to the [TS]

  real in-depth like the research and [TS]

  imaginations about Oswald Stephen King [TS]

  had taken me all the way around to where [TS]

  this book that i started reading that [TS]

  was a about the Kennedy assassination by [TS]

  the time it got to the mechanics of the [TS]

  Kennedy assassination I kind of wanted [TS]

  to just go back to the guy who is [TS]

  teaching English in the small town in [TS]

  Texas you kind of know going into the [TS]

  book that even if he does succeed in [TS]

  preventing Kennedy's assassination it's [TS]

  not going to be for the better and that [TS]

  idea kind of builds up steam [TS]

  subconsciously and so the stakes are [TS]

  kind of gone when you think about it [TS]

  whereas everything he does and Jody [TS]

  that's a whole blank slate why he can [TS]

  reset it if it doesn't work out but he [TS]

  can never reset his life right he's [TS]

  experiencing the stakes are so much [TS]

  higher for him when their personal then [TS]

  want this big abstract save the [TS]

  cheerleader save the world type mission [TS]

  and anyone who's read up [TS]

  anyone who's a fan of alternate history [TS]

  or alternate fiction tends to know that [TS]

  these authorial exercises are usually [TS]

  predicated on the notion that history [TS]

  has worked out for the best and this [TS]

  book is is really no exception to that [TS]

  so you kind of go into that with the [TS]

  bedrock premise throwing in the back of [TS]

  your mind and then the question just [TS]

  becomes ok how is king going to write [TS]

  himself out of this where you have to be [TS]

  okay with the fact that he has to let [TS]

  Kennedy died and i think he I think he [TS]

  pulls out a very tidy ending but the [TS]

  fact is that shooting the president has [TS]

  the those have far lower dramatic and [TS]

  personal stakes to somebody who's [TS]

  invested in Jake and Jody the town then [TS]

  you know the the dramatics takes [TS]

  inherent in what goes on between Jake [TS]

  and Sadie and save his crazy ex and the [TS]

  town of Jody you know I mean I could to [TS]

  be frank I couldn't have cared less if [TS]

  it can be got shot or didn't get shot [TS]

  I've got a lot more interesting isn't it [TS]

  is funny that we get to that point [TS]

  though and I think that says something [TS]

  that's about the effectiveness of the [TS]

  story of the king is telling us by the [TS]

  time i get to i get to Oswald I'm more [TS]

  concerned about how dealing with the [TS]

  assassination is going to affect Jake's [TS]

  life about the course of of of history [TS]

  whether whether or not it doesn't work [TS]

  out and and and he ends up discovering [TS]

  that that it isn't this assumption that [TS]

  Alice made that it's going to be better [TS]

  with Kennedy living may not be true so [TS]

  you know so yeah so I i never really [TS]

  made the case for why Kennedy should be [TS]

  saved like it was half-hearted was that [TS]

  we got out i'll make the case to Jake to [TS]

  convince him like this is an important [TS]

  thing to do and Jake goes yeah but you [TS]

  know well would that really made a big [TS]

  difference in our low know what I made a [TS]

  big difference in these kids will be [TS]

  dying in Vietnam and and we would have [TS]

  all this then you must be dying in [TS]

  nuclear holocaust and such like a good [TS]

  it's not much of a case like he hasn't [TS]

  made the case to the reader i think [TS]

  that's valid in some ways right because [TS]

  you know what happens [TS]

  al kills himself before Jay can really [TS]

  nail it down right and in some ways that [TS]

  Spurs Jake into action without really [TS]

  thinking well is this really worth doing [TS]

  or not he's just sort of pushed along by [TS]

  events [TS]

  yeah I think I think you needed I if I [TS]

  had that beginning section of the book I [TS]

  Jake to do what Jake did I think he [TS]

  would have needed [TS]

  stronger motivation was provided to him [TS]

  so by the end when the end of the book [TS]

  comes along obviously we're more [TS]

  invested in a local story and we're like [TS]

  you know what I wasn't convinced that he [TS]

  did decade was worth saving that would [TS]

  make a big difference and Jake didn't [TS]

  seem that convinced them it's like I [TS]

  think it's a failure of the the [TS]

  motivation of the plots successful in [TS]

  that we like Jake's new story and the [TS]

  personal stakes more important but it's [TS]

  a kind of a failure that it's not a big [TS]

  turnaround from this really strong [TS]

  motivation to save JFK cause I felt like [TS]

  very early on and maybe it's also [TS]

  because like Lisa said you know this you [TS]

  know this is not going to be i'll save [TS]

  them and everything will be better you [TS]

  know that's not gonna happen so well I [TS]

  think there's this idea that pervades [TS]

  pop culture or at least pop-culture [TS]

  million baby boomers have a certain [TS]

  stripe that that's the key phrase I [TS]

  think if only Kennedy had lived this [TS]

  golden era of Camelot would have [TS]

  continued through 1968 and everyone [TS]

  would have skipped hands as they walked [TS]

  into the yeah everyone skip would skip [TS]

  hands they walked into the peace corps [TS]

  and the war on poverty would have been [TS]

  affected and civil rights would have [TS]

  happened painlessly blah blah blah and [TS]

  so because Kennedy died everyone sees [TS]

  that this sort of helpful baby boomer [TS]

  Rob productive alternate future going [TS]

  with it [TS]

  it's the flashpoint theory right yeah [TS]

  that's the idea that there is a single [TS]

  event that causes all these ripples [TS]

  whereas i think was fascinating that [TS]

  baby through in the Ray Bradbury's very [TS]

  sound of thunder know where is you know [TS]

  the idea of this originating idea of [TS]

  this butter the butterfly effect whereas [TS]

  you know in theory in this time-travel [TS]

  universe it's it's just as important [TS]

  it's like Kennedy dying is just as [TS]

  important as I'm stepping on a butterfly [TS]

  depending on how you look at it right [TS]

  because they both have ripples it's just [TS]

  a question of what what they they touch [TS]

  but I think to John's point that that [TS]

  Stephen King being older than us and [TS]

  having lived through this and there is a [TS]

  resonance that I think is suggested and [TS]

  that Allah be asleep feels and that [TS]

  Stephen clearly feels that having lived [TS]

  through it that that of course people [TS]

  think oh if only Kennedy had lived I [TS]

  think it's because we're more cynical [TS]

  and that generation became cynical when [TS]

  the president was assassinated that was [TS]

  like the end of the innocence for that [TS]

  generation I think you take that is [TS]

  given that the reason that stephen king [TS]

  he does a little bit of work to say well [TS]

  now here's why it's important [TS]

  Kennedy we should not be assassinated [TS]

  but you know he can he goes in with a [TS]

  little stronger implicit kind of [TS]

  assumption that you know of course we [TS]

  all feel like you know what would have [TS]

  happened and it would have been better [TS]

  because then things got got you know got [TS]

  that whereas those of us who didn't live [TS]

  through that look back in like really [TS]

  with that would have been or wouldn't [TS]

  matter and you get cynical everything we [TS]

  don't we don't buy that line of [TS]

  reasoning about to be another reason not [TS]

  to buy it is when you look at the cycles [TS]

  of human history or cultural history no [TS]

  one idea ever pops up in isolation like [TS]

  ideas get replicated across cultures in [TS]

  certain time periods all the time and so [TS]

  even if Kennedy had been a precipitating [TS]

  event towards this generational shift [TS]

  into hippie demand Vietnam and so on and [TS]

  so forth [TS]

  even if he had lived something else [TS]

  would have prodded idea people seem to [TS]

  forget that Richard Nixon was going to [TS]

  be successful politician the sixties no [TS]

  matter what so 11 sad thing i think last [TS]

  thing I know one thing that bothered me [TS]

  is a when Jake emerges from the portal [TS]

  back into the future after he's done all [TS]

  this and lived this life we see that as [TS]

  we've as we've set up to this point [TS]

  there isn't a good future that after [TS]

  he's changed the past and safe Kennedy [TS]

  there are all these earthquakes and you [TS]

  know nuclear war and the mean is now [TS]

  part of canada and there's not a lot of [TS]

  power they only power a few days and [TS]

  they're hoodlums who were running around [TS]

  with the islands in Canada this can't be [TS]

  teenage hoodlums in canada and this is [TS]

  one of my problems with it is is I don't [TS]

  mind the fact that there's a really [TS]

  quick recap of history from that point 2 [TS]

  2011 i don't i don't mind that because [TS]

  that is sort of not the point of the [TS]

  book to to detail the old history of [TS]

  what's happened since then [TS]

  what bothers me is it feels it felt to [TS]

  me kinda like a cop out that the moment [TS]

  that he changes the past there are [TS]

  earthquakes and you know count there's a [TS]

  giant earthquake in Los Angeles and [TS]

  things like that get that it wasn't just [TS]

  the past that he changed it was like oh [TS]

  and also this reason you broke the users [TS]

  reinforces tearing their at the part so [TS]

  it's like well I might have worked out [TS]

  it's not like an alright time travel [TS]

  story it's like what you did change its [TS]

  like what you did and by the way of [TS]

  quakes and stuff that are and by the way [TS]

  earthquakes should be that I'd like to [TS]

  have seen the argument that Kennedy [TS]

  would have not made the letter table and [TS]

  was impeached if he had right exactly [TS]

  I don't think that's important i mean i [TS]

  don't think that the Kennedy factor of [TS]

  it is it is important at all what we're [TS]

  talking about it to say that I think [TS]

  it's not so much that you know [TS]

  ok yes he stopped me from being killed [TS]

  and that was a big change but i think [TS]

  the fact that you know there's also this [TS]

  cumulative effect that they start [TS]

  talking about the end right if so many [TS]

  things that I've gotten changed so much [TS]

  has gotten out of balance with all the [TS]

  vowels trips back and forth is the meat [TS]

  hamburger [TS]

  well that's alright and we say it was a [TS]

  yellow card man is bonkers it's been 40 [TS]

  years of beef so everything the whole [TS]

  reality is unstable and again you know [TS]

  not to hurt by too much but if you you [TS]

  know there isn't there is another [TS]

  residence with the dark tower here [TS]

  whereas there's this idea of the world [TS]

  sort of shaking itself apart because [TS]

  people keep screwing with it [TS]

  yeah I would have loved to see more [TS]

  earthquake-type things happening earlier [TS]

  on where you get the idea that the world [TS]

  is slowly falling apart rather than 0 [TS]

  the second JFK guys and right you know [TS]

  Sadie dies everything goes to hell [TS]

  la falls off the coast to have he makes [TS]

  it on a horse race in the horse that he [TS]

  knows is the winner of the Triple Crown [TS]

  breaks its leg right now and it's like [TS]

  oh geez [TS]

  wait a second something is not quite [TS]

  right a little bit he comes back five [TS]

  years which isn't it well you know he's [TS]

  gotta wait five years which is important [TS]

  to the whole plot of the book and [TS]

  everything but realistically speaking [TS]

  realistically speaking at a time travel [TS]

  story if you if you put a single person [TS]

  from the future into the past five years [TS]

  on there is no way that lee harvey [TS]

  oswald get that same apartment at JFK [TS]

  had it goes to dallas at the same time [TS]

  he drives in the convertible was out [TS]

  that's honest there's no way because the [TS]

  the the changes of I mean it's debatable [TS]

  that even if you blink that guy into [TS]

  existence for three secondary tap one [TS]

  guy in the shoulder in florida and [TS]

  disappeared [TS]

  there's no way those people in the same [TS]

  spot well that's where the obdurate plat [TS]

  maps comes in and how you [TS]

  it's how you define you have to have a [TS]

  correcting effect because you're right [TS]

  otherwise things will become a different [TS]

  you know the hamburger meat not being [TS]

  available would be enough rushing [TS]

  everything freaks out right on his last [TS]

  trip back when he starts like oh my god [TS]

  I mean what have I done just by buying [TS]

  you know a shirt or taking is randy was [TS]

  found he was right but ya again once [TS]

  again there's this unseen force that you [TS]

  know whatever this this this forces that [TS]

  since the King loves doing this he never [TS]

  calls the god or anything or tries not [TS]

  to call it God but it's just like me [TS]

  except at the end of the stand the [TS]

  unseen force that's its handmade it's [TS]

  it's him the writer real like a light [TS]

  motif through all of his workers that [TS]

  there are forces beyond your [TS]

  comprehensive and that 20 of you and [TS]

  they had and they have a purpose in that [TS]

  a plot you know I think the one thing [TS]

  that's sort of subtle here that is that [TS]

  it's brought up towards the end of the [TS]

  book but i think it's interesting is not [TS]

  just the obdurate pass but the object [TS]

  itself whereas in theory right Jake says [TS]

  well I can just go back and fix [TS]

  everything I did wrong the first time [TS]

  right [TS]

  it's just too bad your shoulder right [TS]

  exactly and but i don't know about you [TS]

  but like you know in some ways that [TS]

  might feel like a cop-out but in this he [TS]

  decides he can't do it and I felt the [TS]

  weight of that yeah it makes you feel [TS]

  tired you just read all these pages [TS]

  well I I'm not just that but i can think [TS]

  about all that he has been through and [TS]

  all having to go through and change the [TS]

  past but he can't change his life he's [TS]

  living his life and that cannot be [TS]

  erased [TS]

  you know he he has to live with the fact [TS]

  that he lived those five years and that [TS]

  can eat can hit the reset button on the [TS]

  universe that doesn't matter he felt [TS]

  like I was on memory and and and saw her [TS]

  be horribly wounded men killed by lee [TS]

  harvey oswald ouch i was done i was kind [TS]

  of rooting for him to go to Groundhog [TS]

  Day it in the beginning of the book of [TS]

  micah it'll be neat if you did the [TS]

  groundhog day think i'm gonna became [TS]

  clear that he was going to do a 1 1 [TS]

  iteration groundhog and dairy and I saw [TS]

  how many pages took him to do that I [TS]

  realized there's not enough room Graham [TS]

  to do it for the rest but I wouldn't [TS]

  perfectly happy for him to Groundhog Day [TS]

  the whole book now see that that would [TS]

  work for me live years when you gone [TS]

  crazy after your number I was not sure [TS]

  that that Stephen King was going to do [TS]

  that [TS]

  and say so i decided that since I [TS]

  couldn't change the past i would just go [TS]

  back and meet all those people and live [TS]

  my life in that little town in Texas no [TS]

  I mean iterations like more than once [TS]

  right like five just like Groundhog's [TS]

  Day where the first time it takes a long [TS]

  time and that's a very different book [TS]

  yeah right lost all the weight it would [TS]

  have lost all the emotional weight [TS]

  yeah I will say there's a point at after [TS]

  city dies where he is considering that [TS]

  Jason was like well just you know I [TS]

  could just go back and live in my life [TS]

  and ignore JFK and all of that before [TS]

  yeah but that that moment when he's [TS]

  contemplating that you is the reader [TS]

  just kind of think oh gosh she has I [TS]

  mean can you imagine having to you live [TS]

  through the beginning of the Sadie [TS]

  relationship in the middle of the city [TS]

  relationship and all of that and having [TS]

  to go through all those steps again and [TS]

  also because you see in the first town [TS]

  in Maine where you know that you're [TS]

  basically playing through a script if [TS]

  you can you imagine having to relive [TS]

  through some of these moments and then [TS]

  basically feel like you're on script [TS]

  yeah you will be able to do it now [TS]

  because you're watching doom little [TS]

  children and that he wouldn't fall in [TS]

  love with him thats that's the problem [TS]

  not just because the older but she [TS]

  wouldn't have loved him because he [TS]

  wouldn't have been the same person [TS]

  yeah well I wouldn't know everything [TS]

  that would happen right so you know just [TS]

  you just you know living through that [TS]

  changes he was a person you're not ready [TS]

  to have that romantic like you know [TS]

  you're not ready to make the action [TS]

  that's the key of the book right you [TS]

  can't go back and change the past [TS]

  because it's already been lived through [TS]

  it that way you know that I think that's [TS]

  the that's the conclusion that he comes [TS]

  to write this are already happened in [TS]

  some ways I can't make it happen again [TS]

  even if i'm not seeing it from like the [TS]

  first person perspective so i have to [TS]

  let it be and he you know he makes that [TS]

  huge decision at a certain point to say [TS]

  you know do I save you I go back and [TS]

  spend all the time with love my life or [TS]

  do I essentially you know take the [TS]

  sacrifice and save the larger you know [TS]

  save the world at large as such as it is [TS]

  so in a in a previous podcast i believe [TS]

  the it might have been there Neal [TS]

  Stephenson podcast I I said something [TS]

  negative about Stephen King which is [TS]

  that [TS]

  I I I said that you know stylistically I [TS]

  thought that there are plenty of writers [TS]

  who have sort of more more flair and [TS]

  more style than Stephen King and you [TS]

  know he is not a showy writer he is [TS]

  workman like he has he has a style all [TS]

  the all his own but it is very [TS]

  recognizable you could give me a page a [TS]

  Stephen King and I bet without any name [TS]

  on it and I bet you I could figure out [TS]

  that it was Stephen King because he does [TS]

  have a style but what struck me in this [TS]

  story is he he is a great storyteller he [TS]

  oh yeah he is that the thing that sets [TS]

  him apart is it mean he's got [TS]

  interesting world building and he's got [TS]

  an interesting perspective and his style [TS]

  is kind of interesting but he is just a [TS]

  great storyteller this this story these [TS]

  characters i was absolutely engrossed in [TS]

  in in this story and so although people [TS]

  i think beat up Stephen King because he [TS]

  had such success and he sold so many [TS]

  books any rights [TS]

  he's written so many books is John and [TS]

  Lisa can attest he he he really is [TS]

  remarkable at spinning a story and [TS]

  making you want to follow absolutely i [TS]

  will go blue in the face defending [TS]

  stephen king's a craftsman because I [TS]

  think he's a master of the storytelling [TS]

  craft I I think he has a I think he I [TS]

  think he thinks long and hard about the [TS]

  best way to tell a story that's meant as [TS]

  a good word for two because I mean and [TS]

  if you read on writing which is an [TS]

  excellent book anybody who are you [TS]

  should read it's great [TS]

  yes but craftsman also in this is that [TS]

  he is not going to be the most poetic [TS]

  right he of writers he is not he doesn't [TS]

  have that he has a workmanlike in a good [TS]

  way a craftsman you know he is a crap [TS]

  crafter of stories and of language and [TS]

  he knows what he's doing and he does a [TS]

  very good job of it and that that's not [TS]

  to be looked down on because there are [TS]

  lots of people who've written lots of [TS]

  highfalutin pros that has beautiful [TS]

  fragments and beautiful sentences and it [TS]

  and it falls apart as terrible as a [TS]

  whole thing right thinking it has a [TS]

  superb grasp on on the language that he [TS]

  chooses an individual word choices [TS]

  because he I know a lot of people say [TS]

  he's worthy but he does a great job with [TS]

  one or two well-turned sentences that [TS]

  will remain [TS]

  your brain indelible um I find his word [TS]

  choices to actually quite economical [TS]

  sometime and very very evocative I mean [TS]

  he's not going to be one of these these [TS]

  pro stylist where you fall to your knees [TS]

  and reference over the the the whale is [TS]

  his his words it's like poetry and art [TS]

  of angels wept you know but it's it's [TS]

  instead you can you can actually see [TS]

  these people and hear them the rest of [TS]

  your head as you have nothing up [TS]

  no that's fantastic you know he doesn't [TS]

  use flashy words but he doesn't tells a [TS]

  good story and stuff like that I and one [TS]

  example comes up from the great [TS]

  literature is like Hemingway very simple [TS]

  writing right but he was you know it you [TS]

  can get a lot of a few simple words are [TS]

  with stephen king of the complaint does [TS]

  not so much that you're not so much as [TS]

  like Hemingway is just that he's corny [TS]

  that is you know kind of ham-fisted and [TS]

  corny and number Donna thing which is [TS]

  classic old-school Stephen King people [TS]

  like yeah but that's kinda like if you [TS]

  don't but you don't buy into that you're [TS]

  into it so the passage that highlighted [TS]

  here is it's corny I it's cliche and [TS]

  it's like Adam when i read it I'm like I [TS]

  he didn't make that up because I must [TS]

  have read that before because it's so [TS]

  corny and it's so cliche but the magic [TS]

  of stephen king and the reason why i [TS]

  think is actually a quite a good writer [TS]

  in his own way I ignoring the [TS]

  storytelling entirely is that you can [TS]

  get you to a point with all his other [TS]

  skills and tools to wear this corny [TS]

  cliche thing that you swear you've heard [TS]

  before like a Hallmark greeting card [TS]

  wraps around it wraps all the way around [TS]

  the corner meter and pops back up into [TS]

  like emotional resonance and you're like [TS]

  that how did he even do that and so this [TS]

  is towards the end of the book it's two [TS]

  sentences where he's a he's writing [TS]

  about how everything has ended with [TS]

  Sadie and everything like that he says [TS]

  hearts don't really break if only they [TS]

  could in isolation if you have not read [TS]

  this book you like this guy's an awful [TS]

  red come on it's not really they could [TS]

  but when i read that line like you got [TS]

  me he he managed he manages to make that [TS]

  line that line their work because of [TS]

  everything that's built around it and it [TS]

  you know it allows you to disable the [TS]

  part of your mind that's going to shoot [TS]

  that those students sentences down with [TS]

  lasers and say this is not good writing [TS]

  sir you need to think hard about what [TS]

  you're going to right now because you [TS]

  think if hearts could break them [TS]

  you'd be out of your misery I know it's [TS]

  a cliché is a hallmark card it's not [TS]

  terrible home with its it's cheap it's a [TS]

  cheap insight right it's a cheap insight [TS]

  but he really earned it [TS]

  yeah I'm right and I highlighted that [TS]

  passage unlike you got me heartbroken [TS]

  character who has lived through this to [TS]

  get to that point [TS]

  mmm the key to this book and we've lived [TS]

  through and we lived it within no no I [TS]

  found the key it's the last page [TS]

  actually um this is the this is the part [TS]

  i highlighted where it says she is in a [TS]

  dream and so am i like all sweet dreams [TS]

  will be brief but brevity make sweetness [TS]

  doesn't it yes i think so because when [TS]

  the time is gone you could never get it [TS]

  back [TS]

  yeah this is a graphic Stephen King [TS]

  where he spent so little time doing that [TS]

  thing that we're just talking about [TS]

  where he's like he's like talking to the [TS]

  reader about about the medic question [TS]

  and the ennui and you know lots of [TS]

  writers do that throughout the whole [TS]

  book stephen king is like straight ahead [TS]

  i'm going to tell you a story and he [TS]

  saves that he saves that he doesn't [TS]

  spend the whole book having people you [TS]

  know the author or the character or the [TS]

  narrator or anybody especially with the [TS]

  narrator's a lot of times in areas just [TS]

  like here's what happened on this [TS]

  happened happened then and then you know [TS]

  in the middle and the end a pivotal [TS]

  scene the narrative will say two [TS]

  sentences that are not advancing the [TS]

  plot that are commenting on the action [TS]

  in a very simple way and they stand out [TS]

  because the narrator the character of [TS]

  the writer whoever is this the voice in [TS]

  the book doesn't do that normally and [TS]

  jumps out at you when he has a great [TS]

  line about that early on in the book [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't take say something [TS]

  about a base you know he's talking about [TS]

  his students very early on is this [TS]

  something about the basic job of his of [TS]

  a storyteller is this happened and then [TS]

  this happened and it's the story that [TS]

  matters it's not the right and that's [TS]

  that is the sum up that is the sum up of [TS]

  Stephen King right and don't take your [TS]

  time to go let me tell you why this was [TS]

  important isn't it dramatic and he felt [TS]

  this is this you know it's no just tell [TS]

  the story but there is a moment of [TS]

  reflection a moment or two reflection [TS]

  and you can land hearts don't really [TS]

  very carefully they could you can land [TS]

  that if you've built the structure such [TS]

  that that that earns its little slot [TS]

  there and that you know need the [TS]

  characters and you need a good story and [TS]

  you have a microcosm of it in [TS]

  what's the name of the the janitor in [TS]

  the beginning of this book [TS]

  Harry yeah yeah but you have a microwave [TS]

  in this in Harry's SI where you [TS]

  he says that he says it from the [TS]

  beginning and you you learn a little bit [TS]

  about the essay before you actually get [TS]

  to read some of it and initially you're [TS]

  like okay yeah i can more or less [TS]

  believe that this was a heartbreaking SI [TS]

  and then he actually lets you read an [TS]

  excerpt and yes it's pretty is poorly [TS]

  written as painted and it's also [TS]

  heartbreaking it's it's it it hooks you [TS]

  like they're they're just hooks that [TS]

  keep you moving through the way it's [TS]

  written in a way that much more slickly [TS]

  produced as they wouldn't do it because [TS]

  i don't know about you guys but after i [TS]

  finished reading that passage i like [TS]

  actually had to put down the kindle for [TS]

  a minute or two and you know go snuggle [TS]

  my daughter then come back to the book [TS]

  it's chilling and actually that show [TS]

  that Stephen King you know hehe has i [TS]

  know are you know he is it [TS]

  well yes he's a he's crazy and he's [TS]

  gonna kill us all [TS]

  no he that's right in his wheelhouse [TS]

  though regulator holy his thing he is [TS]

  really good kid he knows all the tricks [TS]

  he knows how to pull them out and the [TS]

  fact is the end of this book i mean i [TS]

  was i mean at the climax where there's a [TS]

  confrontation between shake and Lee [TS]

  Harvey Oswald in [TS]

  Harvey Oswald in [TS]

  book depository and I and a shot goes [TS]

  awry and sadie is mortally wounded and [TS]

  all that that was exciting but I didn't [TS]

  find it particularly affecting it was [TS]

  really like Jake is going through the [TS]

  motions of what he has to do and of [TS]

  course the girlfriend it's sort of like [TS]

  an episode of a TV series of course the [TS]

  characters girlfriend is going to be [TS]

  horrible accidentally shot and died [TS]

  because but the that's how to put a [TS]

  pneumonic but the last one is what get [TS]

  last seen pays off everything and is [TS]

  amazingly affecting like that room got [TS]

  really a bad man came in and kick sand [TS]

  in my eyes and made me cry a little bit [TS]

  at the end of that I mean it is so [TS]

  affecting at the end of this book is [TS]

  just he has figured out there are some [TS]

  writers and we talking you know like [TS]

  your contrasting with Stevenson there [TS]

  are some writers who take all that [TS]

  little intellectual fancy part of your [TS]

  brain right the oh is that so clever I [TS]

  appreciate that and then there are [TS]

  writers like Stephen King you grab that [TS]

  you know the lizard brain the end part [TS]

  of you and just and just shake it you [TS]

  know and and he's figured out how [TS]

  perfectly like like you guys said like [TS]

  his craft is perfectly honed to tap into [TS]

  that [TS]

  well there's the beauty of I mean the [TS]

  fact that in in this final scene [TS]

  the fact is the jake and Sadie have a [TS]

  connection and and there are alternate [TS]

  you know alternate versions of them and [TS]

  in this case it's a safety Sadie who is [TS]

  now an old lady and has never met him [TS]

  before and lived that life without him [TS]

  and yet they still have a connection and [TS]

  he goes back there to Jodi in the [TS]

  present and meets her dances and then [TS]

  dances with her and it's like so [TS]

  somewhere in time you can practically [TS]

  see Christopher even James seymour [TS]

  making misty eyes at each other as they [TS]

  go through this but it's really touching [TS]

  I think that and doesn't he doesn't make [TS]

  a he makes a Jack Finney reference in [TS]

  the ya-ya not have to work yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah but it's just it'sit's i looked up [TS]

  because i have that book on my shelf and [TS]

  now it's looking up as I've Illustrated [TS]

  looking at but the Jack Benny time it [TS]

  again myself [TS]

  yeah that's good yeah now but such a [TS]

  great again there's the payoff right [TS]

  after all this sort of failure of [TS]

  changing time he the I felt like that it [TS]

  could have ended and it would have not [TS]

  been particularly fulfilling and then [TS]

  and then when he goes after having sort [TS]

  of like return to the president being [TS]

  kind of disconnected from everything and [TS]

  he goes to Texas and it was kind of you [TS]

  know I was almost giving us like he's [TS]

  gonna go yeah go see what's there and it [TS]

  was yeah so I i was i was really [TS]

  impressed i mean to wrap to wrap this up [TS]

  i don't know what I really expected from [TS]

  this I the most recent stephen king book [TS]

  I've read is i don't know i mean it was [TS]

  a long time ago I mean I i think i might [TS]

  have been one of the dark tower like [TS]

  this third Dark Tower book maybe but [TS]

  it's been a long time since i've read a [TS]

  stephen king book and I was you know I i [TS]

  was i really liked it is one of my [TS]

  favorite books of 2011 [TS]

  I thought that he hit you know I i got [TS]

  the time-travel mechanics mechanics were [TS]

  interesting but in the end i thought [TS]

  this story of the the you know the love [TS]

  story that's happening with the ticking [TS]

  of the clock of the impending [TS]

  assassination and then the resolution at [TS]

  the end I you know I just I really [TS]

  enjoyed it way more than I thought that [TS]

  I would I I kind of wished that I didn't [TS]

  you know I wanted to talk about it and [TS]

  that's one of the reasons i finished it [TS]

  so rapidly but at the same time I was [TS]

  torn because I didn't want to because it [TS]

  because it was so engrossing and so [TS]

  wrapping up you kind of want to savor it [TS]

  and so I was sad to read 500 patients in [TS]

  traffic for hours or so but yeah I mean [TS]

  you know it's still I agree it was [TS]

  incredibly incredibly effective book in [TS]

  a really well told story [TS]

  well I think this is definitely the one [TS]

  he written before this was under the [TS]

  dome and I think this is definitely [TS]

  leagues above under the dome this is [TS]

  this is I think a whole new level of [TS]

  storytelling compared to that one john [TS]

  what about this one what's your verdict [TS]

  on 11 22 63 you probably shouldn't let [TS]

  me go last but you can always read this [TS]

  in two different sequences you would [TS]

  like this was not my favorite recent [TS]

  stephen king book I at this point and I [TS]

  really [TS]

  feel like I've read so many stephen king [TS]

  books that he has to do a lot to [TS]

  surprise me and when i read this book I [TS]

  think it's like all this is like fifty [TS]

  percent this book 25-percent that book [TS]

  really you know that he has trouble with [TS]

  endings I have trouble stephen king's [TS]

  endings and he has trouble with them and [TS]

  you know this is the thing we do we read [TS]

  the book together and we both know how [TS]

  it's gonna end doesn't have no he thinks [TS]

  they're fine [TS]

  yeah I don't know it seems like you're [TS]

  Stephenson has prepared and there are [TS]

  some things that he does in the endings [TS]

  that I don't like let's put it that way [TS]

  and he does them again here and i [TS]

  continued not like them at it it's so [TS]

  which which is what what what in [TS]

  specific because i love the coda in [TS]

  texas i don't really love the the the [TS]

  couple of chapters before that [TS]

  well it's see the thing is with me and [TS]

  Steve we both know we have an [TS]

  understanding [TS]

  I know that he's gonna do the things [TS]

  that annoy me about this you know this [TS]

  yeah ya are on first name basis I I know [TS]

  that he's gonna do things in it but I I [TS]

  accept that he's going to do those [TS]

  things like for example under the dome [TS]

  under the dome was not a goes as good a [TS]

  book of this but it's more i have an [TS]

  easier time with that visits lock and I [TS]

  was perfectly fine to go through into [TS]

  the dome even though I knew every single [TS]

  thing that was going to happen and [TS]

  practically how it was gonna play out [TS]

  and that I wasn't going to be satisfied [TS]

  with the explanation of the end and I [TS]

  wasn't it was like you know I'm right [TS]

  with you on this one it's kind of almost [TS]

  worse when he's got like a heart of a [TS]

  good book there and really promising [TS]

  start but then he just goes to the [TS]

  ending is so might my complaint about it [TS]

  mainly is that when when he goes back to [TS]

  see it sees how things have gone wrong [TS]

  and you already covered a lot of things [TS]

  with the earthquakes and stuff was okay [TS]

  when he goes out and see how things have [TS]

  gone wrong [TS]

  it's like Steve you gotta decide are you [TS]

  gonna is this are the details of this [TS]

  important I is going to be a book about [TS]

  the alternate history or the details of [TS]

  time-travel are those mechanics or [TS]

  whatever or just going to be that other [TS]

  book that you were riding and he's like [TS]

  well it's mostly about the book when [TS]

  writing but let me do this thing here [TS]

  with the Mad Max guys maybe a little [TS]

  stretch for the young hooligans yeah [TS]

  indian province and and and it's like [TS]

  sometimes like I would have been happy [TS]

  if you want to ride that fucker would [TS]

  have been with you but you were writing [TS]

  this other book but you like but I can [TS]

  stick this thing in here and then the [TS]

  ending with the thing that that kind of [TS]

  model and ending that the Jason was [TS]

  buying maybe I've seen too many times [TS]

  from him but what [TS]

  alright I i was out if I and I always go [TS]

  through this thing I'm like when I'm [TS]

  reading Stephen King book like Steve I [TS]

  know you're going to end this but here's [TS]

  how i would end and i would like a [TS]

  better is like not doing that way I'm [TS]

  like all right you know do it your way [TS]

  and i'm with you and the way i would end [TS]

  it is the two ways i would have been in [TS]

  this one way is to have and this could [TS]

  have again before even reading the book [TS]

  you just know the plot of the book and [TS]

  always going about pirate talk about the [TS]

  groundhog day thing one way to do it [TS]

  would be the injector is our as you can [TS]

  to make sure our lee harvey oswald was [TS]

  the lone gunman turns out he's not the [TS]

  lone gunman but rather than you know I [TS]

  stop Lee Harvey Oswald but then he still [TS]

  gets shot by the other gunmen you stop [TS]

  him you think he's the only one but then [TS]

  you see this shadowy guy in the grassy [TS]

  knoll go off to the side and it's like [TS]

  it's at the shadow of doubt whether you [TS]

  really solved it and stuff like that [TS]

  that wasn't what they were doing fine if [TS]

  you're going to do this when he goes [TS]

  back and he finds everything you know [TS]

  all messed up [TS]

  I don't need to know how it's messed up [TS]

  and I can you tell me specifically how [TS]

  it's messed up is worse I i would be [TS]

  happy if you came back through the [TS]

  portal and it was just great ash [TS]

  everywhere and snowy like a scene from [TS]

  the road or something and then you just [TS]

  walk right back through you know what I [TS]

  mean or something like that and it but [TS]

  if he feels compelled to put in that one [TS]

  or two or three chapters there any feels [TS]

  compelled to how the guy go down and [TS]

  meet her when she's old I don't need any [TS]

  of that I don't need to meeting when [TS]

  he's like as far as I'm concerned that [TS]

  point he's done all the work he's going [TS]

  to doing that book and he was successful [TS]

  any kind of screws it up man but but [TS]

  it's you know I'm with him I'm we have [TS]

  an understanding and i go i don't i [TS]

  don't agree about the about the very [TS]

  last code because i like the the [TS]

  reinforcement not only yes it's it's [TS]

  sweet and sappy and and it made me cry [TS]

  but I like effect that it reinforces [TS]

  that that town is real and that it you [TS]

  know it and he sees it in the present i [TS]

  think that i think there's some closure [TS]

  there that i like that that he is you [TS]

  know he has been profoundly changed by [TS]

  his experience in a way and that it was [TS]

  real and it and and those people did [TS]

  live there [TS]

  I like that part of it i completely [TS]

  agree with you about the province of [TS]

  main section being yeah [TS]

  are you really because it even so it's [TS]

  like this little old man is a wheelchair [TS]

  says sit down Sonny and let me tell you [TS]

  recap of the last 30 years it won't be [TS]

  too long but it will be a little bit [TS]

  long [TS]

  I don't need to know all the alternate [TS]

  history I i rather have intended like a [TS]

  short story short stories don't do that [TS]

  because you don't have room short [TS]

  stories always end in that other way and [TS]

  so so do it that way there you know and [TS]

  you can still have the same the same [TS]

  code of the same emotional code about [TS]

  him realizing that the realizations [TS]

  about life that damn nails so well about [TS]

  you know you can't do it you can't go [TS]

  back and you're you know lived through [TS]

  that again you're a changed person [TS]

  you can have all those without having [TS]

  him go dance with her and she's 80 or [TS]

  whatever i guess now I mean no I don't I [TS]

  don't think I don't begrudge him doing [TS]

  this and I don't you know sometimes it [TS]

  works sometimes i will say that the one [TS]

  stephen king book was ending i actually [TS]

  like pretty much it on unqualified no [TS]

  qualifiers nothing you know I he and i [TS]

  were an exact agreement was the ending [TS]

  of the extended version of the standard [TS]

  I think that's the only book that he [TS]

  ended under percent to my satisfaction [TS]

  that is because they're sending it to my [TS]

  best but probably one of my favorite [TS]

  endings of John books of all time is it [TS]

  is good anybody did like this anything I [TS]

  did like that he that he wrapped it up [TS]

  and and gave gave me is the reader the [TS]

  kind of appropriate closure for what I [TS]

  just seen I think that's part of it too [TS]

  is just that that I i had invested a lot [TS]

  of time and thought into this [TS]

  relationship and so to sort of get that [TS]

  last bit that that it did you know that [TS]

  connection was there and it didn't [TS]

  matter and yeah that was nice and it but [TS]

  it there was some stuff before it got [TS]

  there that was not so well so we could [TS]

  we could go on a hundred perhaps we will [TS]

  but i'm going to close up the [TS]

  incomparable book club [TS]

  we should probably talk about Stephen [TS]

  King some or some other time I think I [TS]

  think we do a whole podcast about the [TS]

  stand we could probably do 80 hours [TS]

  about the stand given that it's [TS]

  approximately 5,000 pages long and i'm [TS]

  gonna have these really great power [TS]

  tower so we can do a thing about the [TS]

  dark tower i guess yeah doctors even [TS]

  longer have you read it to its many [TS]

  maternity and Jason we can all read it [TS]

  together it'll really loud [TS]

  yes but until then until we read many [TS]

  more things by by Stephen King go before [TS]

  before we go by the way [TS]

  for the purposes of our friends who are [TS]

  following along at home and would like [TS]

  to read the things that the incomparable [TS]

  book club is reading our next book club [TS]

  selection i can actually we thought [TS]

  ahead far enough that I can say it on [TS]

  the podcast our next book club selection [TS]

  is a short story collection by maureen [TS]

  McHugh called after the apocalypse that [TS]

  will be the next thing we read in about [TS]

  a month so you've got some time to read [TS]

  many stories by maureen McHugh after the [TS]

  apocalypse so until the next [TS]

  incomparable podcast i would like to [TS]

  thank my guests [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser thank you very much for [TS]

  being here [TS]

  it was a pleasure serenity called well [TS]

  thank you thank you John siracusa thank [TS]

  you for lending your your encyclopedia [TS]

  acknowledged of Stephen King to the [TS]

  proceedings [TS]

  I'm your long gunman Jason Dean Morgan [TS]

  thank you for being here and for reading [TS]

  the book people like a day but i bet i [TS]

  plan to do it again nice that that's [TS]

  right you will you like this you like [TS]

  working under deadlines i do i'm much [TS]

  better pretty good thing my job of us [TS]

  and last finished book 500 pages bang [TS]

  just like that [TS]

  alright so thanks thanks everybody and [TS]

  thanks to the great and comfortable [TS]

  listening audience until next time for [TS]

  the incomparable I'm Jason snow [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]