The Incomparable

77: Women`s Libber


00:00:00   this is jumping ahead a little bit but [TS]

00:00:01   where we are running out of time so i [TS]

00:00:03   wanna i wanna bring this up we'll just [TS]

00:00:05   go back and do the podcast we will i'll [TS]

00:00:07   just reset it will just really my lord [TS]

00:00:09   will do it again and you guys what I [TS]

00:00:12   will be older but you guys won't be any [TS]

00:00:14   older this time I'll just kill Jason in [TS]

00:00:15   the beginning in a graveyard [TS]

00:00:16   thank goodness it'll be a much better [TS]

00:00:19   podcast i'll solve all of our problems [TS]

00:00:21   it says you'll have to the podcast [TS]

00:00:25   the incomparable podcast number 77 [TS]

00:00:31   everywhere we went well it's time for [TS]

00:00:36   another incredible podcast and in [TS]

00:00:38   addition of our book club [TS]

00:00:40   I'm Jason smell the hosted be [TS]

00:00:42   uncomfortable our topic today is the [TS]

00:00:46   latest novel from prolific beloved [TS]

00:00:49   author Stephen King this one is 11 22 63 [TS]

00:00:54   a tale of time travel and and so much [TS]

00:00:59   more [TS]

00:00:59   joining me to discuss stephen king's [TS]

00:01:02   latest are Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:05   good evening it's great to have you here [TS]

00:01:07   thank you it's a pleasure to be here [TS]

00:01:09   also joining us finally on the same [TS]

00:01:12   podcast serenity Caldwell hai Ram how [TS]

00:01:15   you doing I'm doing pretty good how are [TS]

00:01:17   you Jason I'm doing great it is it is [TS]

00:01:19   great to finally have you and Lisa both [TS]

00:01:22   on the same podcast now it's kind of [TS]

00:01:25   it's here here i wonder if the universe [TS]

00:01:28   will do something horrible like cause [TS]

00:01:30   earthquakes or other nevermind nuclear [TS]

00:01:33   and we'll get that will get out court [TS]

00:01:36   the or or or worse accession of American [TS]

00:01:39   States to Canada were basically said [TS]

00:01:42   that like it's a bad thing [TS]

00:01:44   this is true also joining me today are [TS]

00:01:47   John siracusa hi John adjacent you're a [TS]

00:01:51   huge Stephen King fan are you not i am [TS]

00:01:53   i've read almost office blocks and [TS]

00:01:55   that's a lot of books right yeah I've [TS]

00:01:57   realized i haven't read that many of his [TS]

00:01:58   books and I probably should should get [TS]

00:02:01   get on that you should [TS]

00:02:04   yeah I should and also joining us one [TS]

00:02:06   final contestant Dain more'n hi dan I [TS]

00:02:09   Jason good to be you just finished this [TS]

00:02:12   book like 10 minutes ago right about [TS]

00:02:14   about 20 minutes before this episode [TS]

00:02:16   yeah yeah it was pretty close i applied [TS]

00:02:18   to about 500 pages in the last day [TS]

00:02:21   well the wire so that the the downside [TS]

00:02:23   of that is that who knows what your [TS]

00:02:24   recall is going to be like but the good [TS]

00:02:25   side is you read it recently at least [TS]

00:02:28   he's not just shouting incoherently Jim [TS]

00:02:29   law gym like oh man [TS]

00:02:32   III have a I read this at my mostly at [TS]

00:02:36   my parents house when I was there for [TS]

00:02:39   christmas and i had a I like a nightmare [TS]

00:02:42   about joomla at one point of my god you [TS]

00:02:44   look for a book that's not outwardly [TS]

00:02:48   like a whore book there some terrifying [TS]

00:02:50   parts of this boat is little moments so [TS]

00:02:52   so I guess we should start at the [TS]

00:02:54   beginning of this book obviously 11 22 [TS]

00:02:58   63 is the day of the Kennedy [TS]

00:02:59   assassination and this book is [TS]

00:03:00   apparently a book that Stephen King [TS]

00:03:02   originally thought about writing in 1971 [TS]

00:03:04   and he didn't get around to it until [TS]

00:03:06   2009-2010 when you read this book and [TS]

00:03:10   it's about a a teacher in Maine of [TS]

00:03:13   course its main who goes who has a guy [TS]

00:03:17   who runs a diner who decides he would be [TS]

00:03:21   a good candidate to go through a time [TS]

00:03:25   portal and try to stop the Kennedy [TS]

00:03:27   assassination [TS]

00:03:29   of course how many of those books that [TS]

00:03:32   we read is-7 and uh and a lot that part [TS]

00:03:38   of it is really interesting because it's [TS]

00:03:40   um it's very Stephen King it's it's it's [TS]

00:03:43   so almost pedestrian and yet also [TS]

00:03:47   outrageous at the same time that there's [TS]

00:03:49   of course there's a guy who has a diner [TS]

00:03:51   where in the storeroom there's a time [TS]

00:03:53   portal to the nineteen fifties of course [TS]

00:03:56   there is and then but what I like [TS]

00:03:59   because I don't think about this sort of [TS]

00:04:01   genre for stephen king is that he's got [TS]

00:04:03   a very good grasp of of time-travel [TS]

00:04:06   mechanics to the point where he the you [TS]

00:04:09   know are our main our main character [TS]

00:04:12   whose name is Jake Jake epping he he is [TS]

00:04:18   much less familiar with Al the the guy [TS]

00:04:21   who runs the diner analysis with him [TS]

00:04:23   because Alice had many years to think [TS]

00:04:25   about using Jake as a time-travel [TS]

00:04:28   subject while he was doing his own his [TS]

00:04:30   own time traveling whereas for Jake it's [TS]

00:04:32   sort of like he sees al one day and then [TS]

00:04:34   the next day Alice many years older and [TS]

00:04:36   is about to die from lung cancer which [TS]

00:04:39   hit you know and and so he sends them [TS]

00:04:41   out on this mission to go through go [TS]

00:04:44   through a time portal 2 1958 so we got [TS]

00:04:47   the time portal and I think I think [TS]

00:04:48   you're reading a Stephen King novel [TS]

00:04:50   you're reading any kind of genre novel [TS]

00:04:51   and you take the time portal in your [TS]

00:04:52   alright so this time travel got it [TS]

00:04:54   and yet one of the things that he hits [TS]

00:04:57   you with right away is that there's this [TS]

00:04:59   character there's this guy [TS]

00:05:01   Yellowcard man just as you emerge from [TS]

00:05:04   this time portal the first thing you see [TS]

00:05:07   is this guy who seems to know that [TS]

00:05:10   something is wrong and that you [TS]

00:05:11   shouldn't be there [TS]

00:05:12   so right away he does set that little [TS]

00:05:15   that little point of you know it's not [TS]

00:05:17   going to be in a it's not like this [TS]

00:05:20   completely straight kind of I step back [TS]

00:05:22   in time and i'm going to do some things [TS]

00:05:24   like right away there's somebody [TS]

00:05:25   standing there saying crazy things [TS]

00:05:27   basically and then and yellow card man [TS]

00:05:29   is trying to get money and so we can go [TS]

00:05:31   buy something at the at the local liquor [TS]

00:05:34   store i have i thought one of the really [TS]

00:05:37   interesting things they caught me about [TS]

00:05:39   Kings time-travel methodology here is [TS]

00:05:42   that it's very heavily you know sort of [TS]

00:05:45   repeated that every time someone goes [TS]

00:05:48   through the time portal and then it is [TS]

00:05:52   basically resets whatever the previous [TS]

00:05:54   trip did right you can do is go back and [TS]

00:05:56   change the fastest change the past as [TS]

00:05:58   much as you want and when you come back [TS]

00:05:59   to the future it will be changed but the [TS]

00:06:01   next time you reenter the bubble it [TS]

00:06:03   reverts hit the reset as you go back at [TS]

00:06:05   the same time but yeah go ahead with the [TS]

00:06:07   exact same moment that's just such a [TS]

00:06:09   smart narrative can see because you can [TS]

00:06:11   write yourself out of all sorts of sorts [TS]

00:06:13   of dead ends or logical problems then [TS]

00:06:15   you can just read the reset button we [TS]

00:06:16   need yeah I think that's genius and love [TS]

00:06:19   this it's also fascinating to because [TS]

00:06:20   it's so different from a lot of the poor [TS]

00:06:22   trails of time-travel words you know you [TS]

00:06:24   know he doesn't have to go back and stop [TS]

00:06:25   himself from doing something right now [TS]

00:06:27   it's like a family has to be worked [TS]

00:06:29   through it and am you know although as [TS]

00:06:31   we find out very much later in the book [TS]

00:06:33   it's not necessarily a reset more as it [TS]

00:06:35   is a fork but but yeah but for all [TS]

00:06:39   practical purposes it's there's a [TS]

00:06:41   residue that's left but for all [TS]

00:06:42   practical purposes it's a reset and and [TS]

00:06:45   the the downside of that is we see [TS]

00:06:47   immediately without where Alice dying of [TS]

00:06:49   lung cancer and al has taken several [TS]

00:06:51   trips [TS]

00:06:52   actually it turns out that al has been [TS]

00:06:54   getting why is the meat in Alice diner [TS]

00:06:57   so cheap [TS]

00:06:58   he's been getting in 1915 prices 1958 [TS]

00:07:01   and it keeps buying the same meet over [TS]

00:07:04   and over again because he could just [TS]

00:07:05   keeps resetting but now all spent so [TS]

00:07:07   much time there that he ages rapidly by [TS]

00:07:10   modern standards and yet at the same [TS]

00:07:12   time he kind of hasn't done anything [TS]

00:07:14   because every time he enters its just a [TS]

00:07:17   reset so you get the sense right right [TS]

00:07:19   up front that you're investing um you [TS]

00:07:22   know you're investing your life in the [TS]

00:07:24   time travel and if it doesn't work out [TS]

00:07:26   the way you like it will be thrown away [TS]

00:07:28   right and it's also important to note [TS]

00:07:30   that no matter how long you're gone in [TS]

00:07:32   the past [TS]

00:07:33   you're only ever gone two minutes in [TS]

00:07:36   from the present you know when when Jake [TS]

00:07:38   steps back through the time portal he's [TS]

00:07:40   only been gone a very short while and [TS]

00:07:42   the same way that a lonely appears to go [TS]

00:07:44   away for you know tonight or whatever [TS]

00:07:46   and it comes back in his you know or [TS]

00:07:48   five years older [TS]

00:07:49   this would have been a whole different [TS]

00:07:50   book if he had written it back in the [TS]

00:07:52   seventies compared to when he wrote it [TS]

00:07:53   now [TS]

00:07:54   and he was lazy and and addicted to [TS]

00:07:55   drugs and alcohol back then so you [TS]

00:07:57   wouldn't know what are you survive and [TS]

00:07:59   not quite that what I was gonna say is [TS]

00:08:00   if he had written in the seventies it [TS]

00:08:01   would have ended up being more epic in [TS]

00:08:03   scope like the stand i think because the [TS]

00:08:05   stan has this real young man's energy to [TS]

00:08:07   it i feel this this very brash very [TS]

00:08:10   black-and-white good versus evil and [TS]

00:08:11   this book is so nuanced when it compares [TS]

00:08:13   to what is the greater good vs water all [TS]

00:08:15   the small goods how do we decide what's [TS]

00:08:17   good and what's evil and like he has no [TS]

00:08:19   problem drawing those lines and making [TS]

00:08:20   those distinctions in his earlier work [TS]

00:08:22   but you get to something like under the [TS]

00:08:24   dome or 11 22 63 and there's all these [TS]

00:08:27   questions about well how do we know that [TS]

00:08:29   the actions we take her good when we can [TS]

00:08:31   see that the consequences and the [TS]

00:08:32   outcomes are bad and it has a more [TS]

00:08:35   middle-aged i'm i'm taking stock of my [TS]

00:08:37   life feel to it just just as an [TS]

00:08:38   undercurrent which is kind of disturbing [TS]

00:08:40   when you think that the protagonist is [TS]

00:08:41   somebody in their late thirties early [TS]

00:08:42   forties he has an arc as an author but i [TS]

00:08:45   think the be the beginning of this book [TS]

00:08:47   it i think this is stephen king and his [TS]

00:08:51   best where he has the the time-travel it [TS]

00:08:54   doesn't explain that and I got all this [TS]

00:08:56   you know I there's some sort of these [TS]

00:08:58   things like an experiment in the [TS]

00:08:59   government experiment out of this [TS]

00:09:01   without explanation is it bring this [TS]

00:09:03   isn't this mechanical I like that [TS]

00:09:06   there's no explanation because it's what [TS]

00:09:07   we know you don't get distracted by the [TS]

00:09:09   formal logic [TS]

00:09:10   yeah we realigned in the book where he [TS]

00:09:13   talks about where a Jake talks about [TS]

00:09:15   going back to teaching and how much it [TS]

00:09:16   fills of me says I won't try to explain [TS]

00:09:18   it because explanation is such cheap [TS]

00:09:20   poetry [TS]

00:09:21   yeah that for that caught me on the way [TS]

00:09:23   to say it's a great line and you just [TS]

00:09:25   like well you know it's sort of you know [TS]

00:09:26   resonates with this book to we don't [TS]

00:09:28   need to know why the time travel works [TS]

00:09:30   only that it does and it's got its got a [TS]

00:09:32   hint of whimsy to it as well because he [TS]

00:09:34   loves he loves a little bit of whimsy [TS]

00:09:36   like that that selling the same [TS]

00:09:38   hamburger to the people over and over [TS]

00:09:39   again that's the classic Stephen and the [TS]

00:09:42   whole how heat so he doesn't want to [TS]

00:09:44   explain it but how we lovingly describes [TS]

00:09:46   the mechanics of feeling for the step [TS]

00:09:48   and going down through that is just [TS]

00:09:50   straight-up stephen king at his best [TS]

00:09:52   later on the book i'll talk about [TS]

00:09:54   stephen king is worst I and a little [TS]

00:09:57   hint of the slightly older stephen king [TS]

00:09:59   is the yellow card man because that [TS]

00:10:01   night [TS]

00:10:02   it's kind of weird i don't have read [TS]

00:10:04   nearly as many books as most of the [TS]

00:10:05   other people who are normal a book club [TS]

00:10:07   contributors but the vast majority of [TS]

00:10:09   novels that I've rather probably stephen [TS]

00:10:11   king books and he's written a lot of [TS]

00:10:12   books where and when you read this many [TS]

00:10:14   novels by a single author and especially [TS]

00:10:16   if you're not as well read where it's [TS]

00:10:18   not like one of many authors that you [TS]

00:10:19   read like all their novels I i feel like [TS]

00:10:23   i'm sure many of his is constant readers [TS]

00:10:25   feel like they know this guy and I know [TS]

00:10:27   his bag of tricks i feel like i know its [TS]

00:10:29   bag of tricks and he knows that I know [TS]

00:10:31   that he knows you know what i mean and [TS]

00:10:33   so it's kind of like this dance or it's [TS]

00:10:35   like reading a stephen king book is like [TS]

00:10:37   kind of sitting down with an old friend [TS]

00:10:38   you're going to do this thing together [TS]

00:10:40   and I continue to get that feeling with [TS]

00:10:42   this book and the beginning part it's [TS]

00:10:45   kind of like you remember this part is [TS]

00:10:47   like yeah yes the good stuff right [TS]

00:10:49   listen this time travel stuff with the [TS]

00:10:51   resets and the rules and in the yellow [TS]

00:10:54   card man it's like all right that's [TS]

00:10:55   that's an oldie but he's you know you've [TS]

00:10:57   seen that before what I'm doing that [TS]

00:10:58   again all right i'm good i'm with you so [TS]

00:11:00   it was it got off on the right foot i [TS]

00:11:01   think all right also though I guess even [TS]

00:11:04   I noticed that there by visiting dairy [TS]

00:11:07   which is a town that he's used before [TS]

00:11:09   that this is apparently an it reference [TS]

00:11:11   right all there's a i was about to say [TS]

00:11:12   it is a beautiful call back to the it [TS]

00:11:14   universe which is a beautiful but as [TS]

00:11:18   somebody who has not read it and and had [TS]

00:11:21   to look it up later just because it I i [TS]

00:11:23   was curious about what he might be [TS]

00:11:25   referencing there I i think i think the [TS]

00:11:29   dairy stuff i mean i knew that because [TS]

00:11:31   it was in Derry that it that's a town [TS]

00:11:32   that he's visited in many of his books [TS]

00:11:34   but you know it the dairy stuff more or [TS]

00:11:38   less work for me because the idea is [TS]

00:11:40   that he's chasing down this first this [TS]

00:11:43   character who sort of the one with the [TS]

00:11:45   kid the the janitor at his scoring [TS]

00:11:47   Dunning yeah who is who was a head as [TS]

00:11:50   siblings and mother killed by his father [TS]

00:11:53   and and got the hammer you know that [TS]

00:11:57   stuff with the where there's the storm [TS]

00:11:59   drain and there's evil in the town isn't [TS]

00:12:01   very friendly [TS]

00:12:02   that's actually I can just say I thought [TS]

00:12:04   that was effectively creepy without you [TS]

00:12:06   thinking that it was a reference to a [TS]

00:12:08   book i did I i agree definitely and like [TS]

00:12:11   like Jason I haven't read yet but i knew [TS]

00:12:13   a little bit about it from again for the [TS]

00:12:15   dark tower but I i looked up some of it [TS]

00:12:17   and I [TS]

00:12:18   think what's important about it even if [TS]

00:12:19   you haven't read it is that there are so [TS]

00:12:22   much in there that sort of ate a [TS]

00:12:24   foreshadowing of dairy and dallas which [TS]

00:12:28   you know keeps coming up those two [TS]

00:12:30   cities are linked [TS]

00:12:31   I'm your book depository in the storm [TS]

00:12:33   drain and even Beverly and and Richie [TS]

00:12:37   and later on in the book we have that a [TS]

00:12:39   Mike and Bobby Jill who are sort of sort [TS]

00:12:44   of parallels there's also you know the [TS]

00:12:46   fact that when when Jake first comes [TS]

00:12:47   upon a bevy and Richie they're dancing [TS]

00:12:51   right which is a u.s. huge part of the [TS]

00:12:53   book constantly coming up and I sort of [TS]

00:12:56   think yeah he likes tying stuff in and I [TS]

00:12:59   think there's a there's a certain degree [TS]

00:13:00   of that that's that's rewarding for a [TS]

00:13:02   lot of readers I love finding you know [TS]

00:13:04   modules and references in books from [TS]

00:13:06   authors that refer to previous things [TS]

00:13:07   you know it's a part of the reason i [TS]

00:13:09   love reading series of books so much [TS]

00:13:11   because there's a continuity to it but I [TS]

00:13:13   think even if you aren't familiar in [TS]

00:13:15   depth with that particular work i agree [TS]

00:13:18   with Jason that it's it's effective [TS]

00:13:19   creepy to hold the whole Gary scenes you [TS]

00:13:22   know that I just really they're just [TS]

00:13:24   places that are sold with bad juju yeah [TS]

00:13:26   yeah all this money and it's it was [TS]

00:13:29   eerie i was reading it a night like [TS]

00:13:30   before with the bed nose like man I [TS]

00:13:32   don't really want to go to sleep creepy [TS]

00:13:33   book i'm surprised that dairy section [TS]

00:13:36   work so well for you who didn't who [TS]

00:13:38   haven't read it because that's what I [TS]

00:13:40   was thinking when I was reading and I'm [TS]

00:13:41   like okay I get this because i read [TS]

00:13:43   another thousand-page book but pity the [TS]

00:13:45   more people who you know need the poor [TS]

00:13:48   people who don't know I I thought I [TS]

00:13:50   think the two kids who are apparently [TS]

00:13:52   characters in it i think our are [TS]

00:13:54   effective in that they are trying to [TS]

00:13:55   find some sort of life and are obviously [TS]

00:13:58   struggling against some darkness in this [TS]

00:14:00   terrible town and I find I and it's got [TS]

00:14:02   the dancing which it becomes relevant [TS]

00:14:04   later and that the sense that this town [TS]

00:14:05   is permeated by unfriendliness and evil [TS]

00:14:07   and then you know moving on from the [TS]

00:14:11   references part of this to talk about [TS]

00:14:13   the dairy section of this book is also [TS]

00:14:15   Jake's first first run at changing [TS]

00:14:21   history where he ended and it [TS]

00:14:23   foreshadows what's going to happen which [TS]

00:14:24   is he is very careful to wait until he [TS]

00:14:27   has all the information possible to you [TS]

00:14:30   know he has his run-ins with game [TS]

00:14:31   there's an underworld types which is [TS]

00:14:33   going to come back later he he has this [TS]

00:14:36   trial run where he waits to the last [TS]

00:14:39   minute to try and intercede and prevent [TS]

00:14:41   the government father for killing the [TS]

00:14:43   mother and the kids and he does all of [TS]

00:14:46   that and goes back and then resets and [TS]

00:14:50   does it again and what's interesting is [TS]

00:14:53   instead of being there at the moment [TS]

00:14:55   where this thing is going to happen in [TS]

00:14:57   order to intercede when he goes back the [TS]

00:14:59   next time he sort of got all the [TS]

00:15:01   information he needs he realizes that [TS]

00:15:03   the father is just a bad guy and he's [TS]

00:15:06   going to kill his whole family except [TS]

00:15:07   the one kid and he just he goes to him [TS]

00:15:10   months before and in like a desert [TS]

00:15:13   graveyard and just killed him rather [TS]

00:15:16   than defending the people he just [TS]

00:15:17   decided I'm gonna go back which i think [TS]

00:15:19   is interesting but he goes through all [TS]

00:15:20   of this and then hit the reset button [TS]

00:15:22   and decides I didn't need all that [TS]

00:15:24   information this guy's just a bad guy [TS]

00:15:26   i'm just going to do what he's done all [TS]

00:15:28   the research [TS]

00:15:29   yeah he wanted to be sure which is what [TS]

00:15:30   happens with Lee Harvey Oswald is the [TS]

00:15:32   jake wants to be sure that there's not [TS]

00:15:34   somebody there's not a conspiracy that [TS]

00:15:37   it's just this one guy right one [TS]

00:15:40   Al makes that very clear he's like you [TS]

00:15:42   have to be absolutely sure because what [TS]

00:15:45   happens if you screw up and then [TS]

00:15:47   president still get shot and then [TS]

00:15:48   everything still goes to hell or well it [TS]

00:15:51   doesn't quite jell with the present but [TS]

00:15:53   what we all assume that the guy who [TS]

00:15:56   killed his family he wanted to be sure [TS]

00:15:58   because he's like geez I'm like killing [TS]

00:16:00   this guy yea he's a bad guy and [TS]

00:16:01   everything but like is he really gonna [TS]

00:16:03   kill his family and like is he you know [TS]

00:16:05   he pissy had to commit you know it's not [TS]

00:16:06   easy to work it's not easy to work [TS]

00:16:08   yourself up to kill somebody right it's [TS]

00:16:10   not until he gets confirmation that he's [TS]

00:16:11   already killed one family that he [TS]

00:16:13   actually gets the gumption to go ahead [TS]

00:16:14   and pull the trigger [TS]

00:16:15   yeah it's not your first time employee [TS]

00:16:18   witnesses it [TS]

00:16:19   I'm once again also have surprised that [TS]

00:16:21   it works well for everybody else but for [TS]

00:16:22   people who have read it as Lisa was [TS]

00:16:24   saying there's extra residents to those [TS]

00:16:27   characters because you know I don't want [TS]

00:16:30   to spoil it for people didn't read it [TS]

00:16:32   but it's not that you're not meeting [TS]

00:16:33   them [TS]

00:16:34   I after the events of the book and [TS]

00:16:35   you're not meeting before the events [TS]

00:16:37   that you're basically meeting them amid [TS]

00:16:38   steam at events of the book and there's [TS]

00:16:41   a sadness to that that [TS]

00:16:43   you wouldn't get it unless you read that [TS]

00:16:45   other thousand-page book or read the [TS]

00:16:47   wikipedia entry on remember that whole [TS]

00:16:49   thing with someone's mindedness there's [TS]

00:16:52   a creepiness to that I want to get into [TS]

00:16:55   it that's all the projects but but but [TS]

00:16:57   yeah I using dairy is a character named [TS]

00:17:00   King loves inanimate things as [TS]

00:17:02   characters houses afterwards towns towns [TS]

00:17:04   characters and dairy was a character in [TS]

00:17:07   this book and I think it helped [TS]

00:17:10   it's a kind of a cheap but it helped the [TS]

00:17:11   dairy beat at not their help Dallas [TS]

00:17:13   become more character because analysis [TS]

00:17:15   has not been heavily featured in past [TS]

00:17:17   books but comparing it to dairy it's [TS]

00:17:20   like oh Jesus is like the dairy of the [TS]

00:17:22   South already move you've already been [TS]

00:17:24   primed you know you've got a frame of [TS]

00:17:26   reference that makes it easier to sketch [TS]

00:17:28   it out a little bit as opposed to happen [TS]

00:17:29   to go through and frankly do a lot of [TS]

00:17:32   research the best story and well i think [TS]

00:17:36   in general [TS]

00:17:37   Stephen King does a very good job [TS]

00:17:39   personifying every single town that we [TS]

00:17:42   visit in the past and makes it very [TS]

00:17:44   clear this is this type of town in some [TS]

00:17:47   ka in some ways the people we talked to [TS]

00:17:49   and the kite like getting the Sun liner [TS]

00:17:51   in the very first little town in Maine [TS]

00:17:53   you instantly get the picture that kind [TS]

00:17:56   of place and dairy you start to get the [TS]

00:17:58   creepy time-travel ish stuff and dairy [TS]

00:18:01   and how things can go wrong in the [TS]

00:18:03   obdurate past and that kind of carries [TS]

00:18:06   over i feel like it snowballs as you go [TS]

00:18:08   from town to town to town but he hasn't [TS]

00:18:10   really really great personification of [TS]

00:18:12   each town the difference between Jody in [TS]

00:18:14   dallas and for even for were or if you [TS]

00:18:17   yeah they're all very clear pictures of [TS]

00:18:19   each city despite i mean i don't think [TS]

00:18:22   i've been to I've been to dallas very [TS]

00:18:24   briefly but aside from that you get a [TS]

00:18:27   very clear picture of how he wants these [TS]

00:18:29   towns to look at this point in time [TS]

00:18:32   yeah I let's let's move ahead then to [TS]

00:18:35   Jodi to Texas and and specifically to [TS]

00:18:38   the small town where he becomes an [TS]

00:18:41   English teacher and I guess he's briefly [TS]

00:18:44   in Florida but you know that really the [TS]

00:18:46   important doesn't work out that doesn't [TS]

00:18:48   work out now and get the sense of he [TS]

00:18:50   needs to move on before the final and [TS]

00:18:52   it's a good experience of showing like [TS]

00:18:53   this time travel thing he doesn't quite [TS]

00:18:55   have [TS]

00:18:55   a knack of it yet like he's a good [TS]

00:18:57   enough to get out of there alive but he [TS]

00:18:59   realizes he kind of messed up yeah he's [TS]

00:19:01   always learning the ropes of this [TS]

00:19:03   time-travel think he's only beginning to [TS]

00:19:05   understand what he doesn't know and very [TS]

00:19:07   cleverly by setting the time portal in [TS]

00:19:08   1958 Stephen King makes the not only [TS]

00:19:12   cranks up the UH that the jeopardy of of [TS]

00:19:17   messing up because you have to live [TS]

00:19:19   through five years in order to get to [TS]

00:19:23   the date of the assassination but it [TS]

00:19:26   also gives him time to have his [TS]

00:19:29   character moved to this town and meet [TS]

00:19:31   these people because really that this is [TS]

00:19:34   what the book is about this is the book [TS]

00:19:36   is about this guy and the relationships [TS]

00:19:40   that he makes in the past and while he's [TS]

00:19:44   got the this mission of his from the [TS]

00:19:46   future hanging over his head so I you [TS]

00:19:49   know I think this is a really charming [TS]

00:19:51   section where you've got these people [TS]

00:19:52   and you know he's meeting all the all [TS]

00:19:55   the people at the school in in in Jodi [TS]

00:19:58   and he sort of accidentally becomes more [TS]

00:20:02   entwined with their their lives and [TS]

00:20:05   their culture than he's really intended [TS]

00:20:07   because he's thinking I'm you know I'm [TS]

00:20:08   gonna lay low i'm from the future i'm [TS]

00:20:10   here on a mission and of course he ends [TS]

00:20:13   up being completely intertwined in the [TS]

00:20:16   in the life of this small town and [TS]

00:20:19   because it is a small town and there's [TS]

00:20:21   nothing he can do about it and he and he [TS]

00:20:23   gets to know all these people and he [TS]

00:20:25   falls in love with the do the new school [TS]

00:20:28   librarian who is Sadie and you know I i [TS]

00:20:33   really like this part III this is going [TS]

00:20:36   to be one of those things that I think [TS]

00:20:37   depending on what you want out of a book [TS]

00:20:38   like this you may view this as being I [TS]

00:20:41   don't know I i think people might view [TS]

00:20:43   this as being an interminable section [TS]

00:20:45   where he's really not advancing his his [TS]

00:20:47   mission very much and instead he's just [TS]

00:20:49   getting to know the people but I [TS]

00:20:50   actually love this part [TS]

00:20:51   I think if you think that you're not [TS]

00:20:53   reading is there something wrong read ya [TS]

00:20:55   heart the whole point of the segment is [TS]

00:20:57   to is to set up his personal stakes [TS]

00:20:59   because remember out picked him because [TS]

00:21:01   he like well Jake you have nobody here [TS]

00:21:03   you have no attachments you kind of [TS]

00:21:04   lightly on this town anyway no one is [TS]

00:21:07   really going to miss you [TS]

00:21:08   and then he goes back to the past and [TS]

00:21:10   there are all of a sudden a lot of [TS]

00:21:12   people who know about him and his [TS]

00:21:14   welfare and they won't miss them and [TS]

00:21:16   they will care and unfortunately this [TS]

00:21:18   this develops right around the same time [TS]

00:21:20   that he's got to start surveilling [TS]

00:21:22   Oswald and carrying out an assassination [TS]

00:21:25   and I think it raises the dramatic [TS]

00:21:27   sticks and also shows what other [TS]

00:21:29   whatever growth he's going to have as a [TS]

00:21:31   protagonist over the course of the book [TS]

00:21:32   to its it's absolutely necessary and [TS]

00:21:34   also sets up that you know I think what [TS]

00:21:37   manages to be a rather heartbreaking [TS]

00:21:39   story in in many ways right you know [TS]

00:21:42   yeah that the the final chapter oh yes [TS]

00:21:45   even even even before that you know the [TS]

00:21:48   part where you guys talking it I would [TS]

00:21:50   yeah i was there that I mean it needs to [TS]

00:21:53   be an easy that invested right in order [TS]

00:21:55   for you to feel strongly about those [TS]

00:21:57   characters and like these carrots well I [TS]

00:22:00   meanwhile the clock is ticking down [TS]

00:22:01   right i mean that's the great beauty [TS]

00:22:02   beauty is you've got this nice story [TS]

00:22:04   that on it on its own would be a nice [TS]

00:22:06   story but we know where Jake is really [TS]

00:22:09   from you know when we do know that he's [TS]

00:22:11   kind of a rootless guy and he had his [TS]

00:22:14   alcoholic wife they got divorced from a [TS]

00:22:16   nice there's nobody to miss him and and [TS]

00:22:19   now he's putting down roots and he's [TS]

00:22:21   making these connections and that would [TS]

00:22:24   be a nice story but you've got the book [TS]

00:22:26   is 11 22 63 right [TS]

00:22:28   the clock is ticking and you know that [TS]

00:22:31   for him to fulfill his mission that uh [TS]

00:22:34   that everything is going to be there he [TS]

00:22:36   can't you know that there's an a clear [TS]

00:22:38   expiration date on his relationships [TS]

00:22:40   with these people which is makes it that [TS]

00:22:42   much more affecting for this longer [TS]

00:22:44   section [TS]

00:22:45   the reason I think it needs to be longer [TS]

00:22:46   like this and you thought maybe see [TS]

00:22:49   people think it was interminable is [TS]

00:22:51   because it's it is the equivalent of the [TS]

00:22:54   movie where you have the cowboy go live [TS]

00:22:57   with the Indians or even something like [TS]

00:22:59   avatar whatever he's on a mission but [TS]

00:23:01   the mission takes a long time and he has [TS]

00:23:03   to become integrated with these people [TS]

00:23:05   during the mission and he goes no [TS]

00:23:06   comparison for building the barn and [TS]

00:23:08   witness the heart of heaven Costner in [TS]

00:23:10   Dances with Wolves he goes native and [TS]

00:23:12   yeah the long term missions it's hard to [TS]

00:23:14   stay on mission for a long time so he [TS]

00:23:16   ends up is I'm integrating into the [TS]

00:23:18   native population and learning [TS]

00:23:19   and then eventually you you wake up and [TS]

00:23:21   you're Kevin Costner and you're wearing [TS]

00:23:22   a feather on your head or whatever it [TS]

00:23:24   may be you know you've actually John [TS]

00:23:26   you've actually raised i'm not even sure [TS]

00:23:28   I called a criticism is just something [TS]

00:23:30   that tickle the back of my head is you [TS]

00:23:32   have somebody who's in the early forties [TS]

00:23:33   who is now accustomed to world of [TS]

00:23:36   instantaneous wireless connectivity with [TS]

00:23:39   the internet and and a world of cable TV [TS]

00:23:43   and everything that entails to and your [TS]

00:23:47   flung backwards to a time where you [TS]

00:23:50   don't have that many choices and [TS]

00:23:51   entertainment and you are stuck with the [TS]

00:23:53   periodic to hear you're stuck with the [TS]

00:23:55   card catalog the library if you need to [TS]

00:23:57   find something and it's just a radically [TS]

00:23:59   different way of living and this guy [TS]

00:24:01   seems to seamlessly acclimate well and I [TS]

00:24:04   don't have seamlessly do I i actually [TS]

00:24:06   think that Stephen King does a pretty [TS]

00:24:07   good job throughout of depicting the [TS]

00:24:10   about neither saying oh it was a better [TS]

00:24:14   time a simpler time [TS]

00:24:16   no I'm not saying that it's just it's [TS]

00:24:18   just rather he lives really easily in a [TS]

00:24:20   period and and perhaps just speaks to [TS]

00:24:23   the people i know who go into cold [TS]

00:24:24   sweats if they don't if they don't have [TS]

00:24:26   internet access for 24 he does he does [TS]

00:24:28   throw his phone and a pond it's sort of [TS]

00:24:32   a ceremonial dumping of I i think it's a [TS]

00:24:34   personality type that because he's that [TS]

00:24:36   he's an English teacher remember he's [TS]

00:24:38   not a tech nerd he's not even a geek of [TS]

00:24:40   any kind you all these people who say [TS]

00:24:42   boy I think I would be happier in a [TS]

00:24:44   simpler time out for some of them i [TS]

00:24:46   think it's true it's just gonna be [TS]

00:24:48   exhausting trying to remember that you [TS]

00:24:49   can never talk about the Carolina [TS]

00:24:50   Panther also keep in mind the gym that [TS]

00:24:52   uh that al al leaves him a a big file [TS]

00:24:57   with his research in it which is stephen [TS]

00:25:00   king's way of not having him have whole [TS]

00:25:03   scenes where he's incredibly frustrated [TS]

00:25:04   by trying to remember things that are [TS]

00:25:06   happening or doing even more research [TS]

00:25:08   using archaic research techniques sort [TS]

00:25:10   of just as there's a file so let's he [TS]

00:25:13   doesn't need to do all that you don't [TS]

00:25:14   need another the other thing that's [TS]

00:25:16   really really interesting about this and [TS]

00:25:19   I thought about what while reading this [TS]

00:25:20   is sorta jumps around glosses over parts [TS]

00:25:22   right you know there are a couple points [TS]

00:25:23   was like I was here for a while that [TS]

00:25:25   left here from well I left and I thought [TS]

00:25:28   well that's weird you know like this is [TS]

00:25:29   really how much of this like closer [TS]

00:25:31   we're going to get various points here [TS]

00:25:33   but what's important to consider and you [TS]

00:25:35   sort of start to get hints for this is [TS]

00:25:36   that this is all written by him right [TS]

00:25:39   after the fact [TS]

00:25:40   right yeah it makes several references [TS]

00:25:42   to the unfinished manuscript and oh well [TS]

00:25:44   you're reading this [TS]

00:25:45   yeah exactly that's totally a dress to [TS]

00:25:47   people it's totally his recollections of [TS]

00:25:49   it right and so we learned at a very [TS]

00:25:52   specific point in the book that he [TS]

00:25:54   hasn't been as good at blending in as he [TS]

00:25:56   thought he was right so I think that's [TS]

00:25:58   that significant in terms of him as a [TS]

00:26:00   narrator in that not that he's [TS]

00:26:02   unreliable precisely but that is not [TS]

00:26:06   ready for my vantage point of that is [TS]

00:26:09   not like as these things are happening [TS]

00:26:12   to him right and so he does think that [TS]

00:26:15   you know it does seem like he blends in [TS]

00:26:16   really well and certainly there are [TS]

00:26:17   things that he takes two very much in [TS]

00:26:19   this in this environment but you know [TS]

00:26:20   you do get hints of the things that he [TS]

00:26:22   regresses a couple times was like God I [TS]

00:26:24   would have killed for have a cell phone [TS]

00:26:25   right now because I really would have [TS]

00:26:27   solved my problem it's and i think that [TS]

00:26:30   the fact that he that he is telling this [TS]

00:26:32   from some sort of you know after the [TS]

00:26:35   fact perspective is is very significant [TS]

00:26:38   in terms of how we see his character [TS]

00:26:40   the only thing that kind of tickled at [TS]

00:26:42   me through the jodi sequence as well is [TS]

00:26:45   first and forgive the clumsy phrasing [TS]

00:26:47   its kind of the a white male privilege [TS]

00:26:49   you are so convenient but I know that [TS]

00:26:52   that's about it it's like I like that [TS]

00:26:54   guess I thought that was a realistic [TS]

00:26:56   yeah you know there's there's there's [TS]

00:26:57   the throw a reference to oh there was [TS]

00:26:59   the one gas station i stopped where all [TS]

00:27:01   those poor colored people had to win [TS]

00:27:03   their way through a thicket of poison [TS]

00:27:05   oak and gopi over a stream while I got [TS]

00:27:07   to use the restroom but right but that's [TS]

00:27:09   also been judging right that's also i'm [TS]

00:27:11   saying this is beating but but by and [TS]

00:27:13   large it doesn't affect him directly [TS]

00:27:15   well but he accepts the other parts of [TS]

00:27:17   the experience because he's like I well [TS]

00:27:19   I am a white male [TS]

00:27:20   so really for a white male privilege how [TS]

00:27:22   convenient URL was not gonna send a [TS]

00:27:25   black woman back in time to that work [TS]

00:27:29   but because not so much like this [TS]

00:27:31   privilege heat because he's insulated by [TS]

00:27:34   the privilege I i guess from a narrative [TS]

00:27:36   perspective it makes it very easy [TS]

00:27:38   because then you can sidestep authority [TS]

00:27:39   questions like sure life was great [TS]

00:27:42   if you're white and male but you know if [TS]

00:27:44   your if your sale single white female [TS]

00:27:46   who couldn't [TS]

00:27:47   can get her own line of credit yeah 1860 [TS]

00:27:49   how easy or how hard would it have been [TS]

00:27:52   to be someone like Sadie or if you're an [TS]

00:27:54   african-american man they still had the [TS]

00:27:56   camera it's called the green pages of [TS]

00:27:58   the green book but up until very [TS]

00:28:00   recently in the u.s. there was a company [TS]

00:28:02   that actually published a directory of [TS]

00:28:04   african-american friendly businesses for [TS]

00:28:06   traveling african-american families [TS]

00:28:08   because you were talking about a time [TS]

00:28:09   when people could be turned away from [TS]

00:28:11   hotels and restaurants nearby have a lot [TS]

00:28:12   right Stephen King and the good thing [TS]

00:28:14   about this is he doesn't shy away from [TS]

00:28:15   it and he has Jake basically I that [TS]

00:28:18   that's one of the things that he always [TS]

00:28:20   notices is that is as idyllic as his [TS]

00:28:23   life is he that this is this is what I [TS]

00:28:26   appreciate is that he King shows both [TS]

00:28:28   sides there are things about the [TS]

00:28:29   simplistic you know why for the simpler [TS]

00:28:32   life of that time that he appreciates [TS]

00:28:34   and they're things that are bad and you [TS]

00:28:36   know it's just different and things [TS]

00:28:38   about our good and thinks about her bad [TS]

00:28:40   when we leave Jody and we see him on his [TS]

00:28:44   mission spending time in Fort Worth and [TS]

00:28:46   then in Dallas you know he's showing a [TS]

00:28:49   very different kind of environment [TS]

00:28:51   that's a really kind of a miserable or [TS]

00:28:53   unfriendly environment this is the [TS]

00:28:56   environment that lee harvey oswald is [TS]

00:28:57   living well and I think he doesn't gloss [TS]

00:28:59   over how hard it is to be you know an [TS]

00:29:01   unattached female right like well they [TS]

00:29:03   say that he has not had things easy you [TS]

00:29:05   know and i think he goes into a lot of [TS]

00:29:07   detail about that and about just how [TS]

00:29:10   miserable her life has been in many ways [TS]

00:29:12   and I think that's you know she's a [TS]

00:29:14   great character I honestly I know he [TS]

00:29:16   doesn't do a great job of amplifying the [TS]

00:29:18   social pressures and how they could [TS]

00:29:21   undermine near your support networks [TS]

00:29:23   because say to you remember after [TS]

00:29:24   Sadie's the incident that shapes city [TS]

00:29:28   for the subsequent remainder of the [TS]

00:29:30   narrative her mother comes out after [TS]

00:29:32   having carpooled with her attackers [TS]

00:29:33   parents my mother comes out and upgrades [TS]

00:29:36   her for four controllers and she's gonna [TS]

00:29:38   get fired from her job because she was [TS]

00:29:40   attacked and I can't you can't have that [TS]

00:29:42   that was that was the killer for me like [TS]

00:29:44   that the part where I'm like all come on [TS]

00:29:45   that they really with this really like [TS]

00:29:47   someone has attacked and disable the [TS]

00:29:48   school board's gotta fire announced too [TS]

00:29:50   much of a scandal [TS]

00:29:51   oh yeah oh yeah absolutely plus I kind [TS]

00:29:53   of believe that from a small town [TS]

00:29:54   respective I kind of beliefs and also [TS]

00:29:56   they're in town abs label yeah I mean I [TS]

00:29:59   and I think you [TS]

00:30:01   Oh given that I i feel like i said i [TS]

00:30:03   think sadie is a great character and I [TS]

00:30:05   think you know if you don't fall over [TS]

00:30:07   there at least a little bit while [TS]

00:30:08   reading this then you probably aren't [TS]

00:30:09   you know our talk to probably dead [TS]

00:30:11   you're probably dead inside but i think [TS]

00:30:15   you know they're I i think you know [TS]

00:30:17   without making it a book that's overly [TS]

00:30:19   about look how awful racism was in the [TS]

00:30:22   South in you know the fifties and [TS]

00:30:23   sixties which you know there could have [TS]

00:30:26   been a book there there's never an [TS]

00:30:27   answer anybody's yessir many books when [TS]

00:30:29   he could have written that book but you [TS]

00:30:31   know it was not that book and so I think [TS]

00:30:33   he does you know the references to it [TS]

00:30:35   might seem a little glancing but i think [TS]

00:30:37   they do inform a lot of what the setting [TS]

00:30:40   of this book is and part of what makes [TS]

00:30:42   for example Dallas such a disturbing [TS]

00:30:45   town in many ways is this whole [TS]

00:30:47   pervading element of that even if it's [TS]

00:30:49   not something that we're constantly beat [TS]

00:30:50   over the head [TS]

00:30:51   I'm actually impressed at how little [TS]

00:30:54   like the helmet few references to the [TS]

00:30:57   politics of the age and all of that he [TS]

00:31:00   manages to slide in but still managed to [TS]

00:31:03   paint the overall picture of the various [TS]

00:31:05   towns and the way society was at that [TS]

00:31:08   point in time because I mean you could [TS]

00:31:09   have with a with a book about the [TS]

00:31:11   Kennedy assassination you could have [TS]

00:31:13   gone much more deeply into the whole [TS]

00:31:16   Harvey Oswald thing instead you get kind [TS]

00:31:19   of a third-party perspective of the [TS]

00:31:21   leaflets and you hear a couple [TS]

00:31:22   conversations when Jake's listening on [TS]

00:31:24   the omnidirectional microphone but on [TS]

00:31:27   the whole there's not a lot of yes this [TS]

00:31:31   is how people were feeling this is how [TS]

00:31:33   people hate you know the president this [TS]

00:31:35   is what why people love the present you [TS]

00:31:37   skip a lot of that the other than the [TS]

00:31:39   the Cuban Missile Crisis which is an a [TS]

00:31:41   nice little worried a little bit where [TS]

00:31:43   you get that sense of living through it [TS]

00:31:45   and he's living through it realizing how [TS]

00:31:47   upsetting it is two people at the time [TS]

00:31:50   and you know he knows how it turns out [TS]

00:31:53   hey but they don't but other than that [TS]

00:31:56   really mean that that's that's the one [TS]

00:31:59   that's the one that struck me that that [TS]

00:32:01   that he's watching as as people lived [TS]

00:32:03   through that and they're very upset on [TS]

00:32:04   the sexism thing one last time i'd say [TS]

00:32:07   they did the one on one aspect of it i [TS]

00:32:09   thought that illuminated Jake's [TS]

00:32:10   character and I don't even know it was [TS]

00:32:12   intentional notice that so Jake is [TS]

00:32:14   from the future and he's having this [TS]

00:32:15   relationship with past lady and passed [TS]

00:32:18   lady for all her modernity still is a [TS]

00:32:22   product of the gender roles of her time [TS]

00:32:24   and I thought that Jake seemed a little [TS]

00:32:28   bit too okay with that [TS]

00:32:30   like that he's yeah you know it's ready [TS]

00:32:32   but I you would think when I'm reading [TS]

00:32:34   this I'm thinking boy if I was in the [TS]

00:32:35   future and I was dealing with a female [TS]

00:32:37   who was like this I would constantly be [TS]

00:32:38   saying you know you have rights and you [TS]

00:32:41   shouldn't you be trying to turn them [TS]

00:32:42   into the river and liver because like [TS]

00:32:44   you don't want to put on like not gonna [TS]

00:32:46   sometimes to you know it's so quite to [TS]

00:32:50   hear the phrase women's liver it's easy [TS]

00:32:52   to fall into the role of like well you [TS]

00:32:54   know what hey this is kind of nice [TS]

00:32:56   she defers to me it makes me food and [TS]

00:32:58   that like you're planning a beer [TS]

00:33:00   yeah that's damning to jakes character [TS]

00:33:02   or just a general you know the male [TS]

00:33:04   characters like intellectually you might [TS]

00:33:06   know it's wrong but when you're in that [TS]

00:33:07   environment you have someone who's just [TS]

00:33:08   happy to serve you and you're like what [TS]

00:33:10   you know what i find it and that's I [TS]

00:33:12   thought that was a great comment it was [TS]

00:33:13   whether it was intentional or not you [TS]

00:33:15   know and again [TS]

00:33:15   Oh white male privilege you are so [TS]

00:33:17   convenient yeah responsive think Jake's [TS]

00:33:21   a good guy but he he doesn't he doesn't [TS]

00:33:24   protest too much about that although i [TS]

00:33:26   could just stay here forever and let [TS]

00:33:27   Kennedy be assassinated and lick this [TS]

00:33:28   awesome life that I found with these [TS]

00:33:29   people right and yeah and not worry too [TS]

00:33:31   much about like Sadie I want you to get [TS]

00:33:33   away from your horrible former husband [TS]

00:33:36   but don't you know it's okay if you stay [TS]

00:33:38   kind of like 50-60 woman you know you [TS]

00:33:41   don't have to go fully up to believe in [TS]

00:33:42   your equal human being with me as long [TS]

00:33:45   as you don't ask me to do the dishes [TS]

00:33:46   baby whenever he so so what happens [TS]

00:33:49   one of the things that happens [TS]

00:33:50   throughout his trip his travels in the [TS]

00:33:53   past is this sense that the the past [TS]

00:33:57   doesn't want to be changed right what [TS]

00:34:00   want to see what does he call it is that [TS]

00:34:02   the obdurate out here after after it [TS]

00:34:04   passed which I really liked that I mean [TS]

00:34:07   we've seen that in time travel stories [TS]

00:34:10   before but I i really like that that [TS]

00:34:12   that there will be some degree you know [TS]

00:34:16   of of resistance from the past and so [TS]

00:34:19   the conflict in the story isn't [TS]

00:34:21   necessarily you know jake versus lee [TS]

00:34:24   harvey oswald it's like jake versus [TS]

00:34:26   history right vs [TS]

00:34:28   the timeline versus what actually [TS]

00:34:30   happened and he has to try and overcome [TS]

00:34:32   what actually happened and there are a [TS]

00:34:34   lot of kind of nice moments where I you [TS]

00:34:37   know terrible things happen to him [TS]

00:34:39   especially when he's rushing to try and [TS]

00:34:41   get to dealey plaza on the day of where [TS]

00:34:43   one ridiculous thing after another [TS]

00:34:45   unbelievable the obstacles that history [TS]

00:34:47   keeps throwing it sits like a final [TS]

00:34:49   destination movie at that point right [TS]

00:34:51   it's like everything is going to go [TS]

00:34:53   wrong yeah but I love in previous [TS]

00:34:55   instances of the book they're very you [TS]

00:34:58   know he's very frustrated by the object [TS]

00:35:00   passes like i'll keep continually [TS]

00:35:01   hitting up against a wall and moving [TS]

00:35:03   through fog but on that day they're [TS]

00:35:05   basically just like gap the past is [TS]

00:35:07   gonna try and stop us [TS]

00:35:08   let's just roll with it it isn't that [TS]

00:35:10   their didn't really feel like there were [TS]

00:35:12   any snakes until you actually got into [TS]

00:35:14   the building where as in previous like [TS]

00:35:16   when we had the runs it was kinda like [TS]

00:35:18   you know when you when you realize that [TS]

00:35:20   you're you know skating on marbles or [TS]

00:35:22   whatever it's like is there's no other [TS]

00:35:25   option right now you just gotta go with [TS]

00:35:27   it you just gotta roll that you [TS]

00:35:28   yeah plus the biggest source of internal [TS]

00:35:31   tension for him was gone because he had [TS]

00:35:32   managed to convince say that he wasn't a [TS]

00:35:34   raving lunatic he was in fact the guy [TS]

00:35:36   from the future meant to kill the [TS]

00:35:37   president the future and what she was [TS]

00:35:39   okay with that and you convince himself [TS]

00:35:41   that oswald was the only deserve to die [TS]

00:35:44   got ya [TS]

00:35:45   honestly I think I wish he would have [TS]

00:35:47   shot Oswald mom too because she was just [TS]

00:35:49   a piece of work [TS]

00:35:50   oh my gosh so penetrating Oswald is [TS]

00:35:53   fascinating because you know i i'm not [TS]

00:35:55   sure how how clearview people have Lee [TS]

00:35:57   Harvey Oswald as it as with many books [TS]

00:35:59   that we've discussed on this on the on [TS]

00:36:01   this podcast I'm not sure with her [TS]

00:36:03   whether you know I he did a lot of [TS]

00:36:05   research for this so I'm gonna just [TS]

00:36:07   assume that I learned some interesting [TS]

00:36:08   things about sort of how Lee Harvey [TS]

00:36:11   Oswald came to be and his and his you [TS]

00:36:15   know and I thought that was fascinating [TS]

00:36:16   to get a little idea of this guy and and [TS]

00:36:18   and to see you can kind of see how we [TS]

00:36:20   ended up the way he he did but that's [TS]

00:36:22   not to say that you really have a lot of [TS]

00:36:24   sympathy for you know what's a little [TS]

00:36:25   freaky was was reading you know i'm [TS]

00:36:29   reading the book last night and you know [TS]

00:36:31   maybe halfway through at that point and [TS]

00:36:32   talking about a house walls and his [TS]

00:36:34   family and it suddenly occurs to me like [TS]

00:36:36   his daughter must still be alive right [TS]

00:36:39   and his wife are like Google [TS]

00:36:41   wife isn't really good he's going i know [TS]

00:36:43   i know i don't like his wife is still [TS]

00:36:45   but that kind of struck me was like [TS]

00:36:46   because I'd forgotten that i was reading [TS]

00:36:48   a historical fiction book that you know [TS]

00:36:51   but that is about real PDF and so it was [TS]

00:36:54   kind of there was a bizarre moment of [TS]

00:36:55   like you know going to bed last night [TS]

00:36:57   and read the book and suddenly realizing [TS]

00:36:58   i mean this isn't entirely fiction [TS]

00:37:01   this is a lot of this is no factual so [TS]

00:37:04   one of the things again given that this [TS]

00:37:06   book is called 11 22 63 i think one of [TS]

00:37:08   the interesting effects that I felt as I [TS]

00:37:10   read it was as it got started I was very [TS]

00:37:12   excited about oh he's gonna go back in [TS]

00:37:14   time and what's gonna happen one of the [TS]

00:37:15   mechanics of him changing and [TS]

00:37:17   interceding in the in the assassination [TS]

00:37:19   and what's that gonna mean and i found [TS]

00:37:22   after he left [TS]

00:37:24   Jody and was focused entirely on Dallas [TS]

00:37:28   as the events got closer that i was [TS]

00:37:32   struck that I was not as interested as I [TS]

00:37:36   was in a it in Jake's life and his [TS]

00:37:41   interpersonal relationships and it's [TS]

00:37:43   funny and he's piece put it [TS]

00:37:44   they're all they're all constrained or [TS]

00:37:46   they're all that you know he's having [TS]

00:37:48   problems in his relationship with Sadie [TS]

00:37:50   at that point and he sort of falling out [TS]

00:37:52   with the people because they found out [TS]

00:37:53   that he falsified his his records as you [TS]

00:37:56   do when you're a time traveler but they [TS]

00:37:59   did anybody else have that have that [TS]

00:38:00   feeling like by the time I got to the [TS]

00:38:02   real in-depth like the research and [TS]

00:38:05   imaginations about Oswald Stephen King [TS]

00:38:09   had taken me all the way around to where [TS]

00:38:10   this book that i started reading that [TS]

00:38:12   was a about the Kennedy assassination by [TS]

00:38:14   the time it got to the mechanics of the [TS]

00:38:16   Kennedy assassination I kind of wanted [TS]

00:38:18   to just go back to the guy who is [TS]

00:38:19   teaching English in the small town in [TS]

00:38:20   Texas you kind of know going into the [TS]

00:38:23   book that even if he does succeed in [TS]

00:38:25   preventing Kennedy's assassination it's [TS]

00:38:28   not going to be for the better and that [TS]

00:38:30   idea kind of builds up steam [TS]

00:38:32   subconsciously and so the stakes are [TS]

00:38:34   kind of gone when you think about it [TS]

00:38:36   whereas everything he does and Jody [TS]

00:38:37   that's a whole blank slate why he can [TS]

00:38:39   reset it if it doesn't work out but he [TS]

00:38:41   can never reset his life right he's [TS]

00:38:43   experiencing the stakes are so much [TS]

00:38:45   higher for him when their personal then [TS]

00:38:47   want this big abstract save the [TS]

00:38:49   cheerleader save the world type mission [TS]

00:38:50   and anyone who's read up [TS]

00:38:55   anyone who's a fan of alternate history [TS]

00:38:56   or alternate fiction tends to know that [TS]

00:38:59   these authorial exercises are usually [TS]

00:39:01   predicated on the notion that history [TS]

00:39:03   has worked out for the best and this [TS]

00:39:05   book is is really no exception to that [TS]

00:39:08   so you kind of go into that with the [TS]

00:39:10   bedrock premise throwing in the back of [TS]

00:39:12   your mind and then the question just [TS]

00:39:13   becomes ok how is king going to write [TS]

00:39:15   himself out of this where you have to be [TS]

00:39:17   okay with the fact that he has to let [TS]

00:39:19   Kennedy died and i think he I think he [TS]

00:39:21   pulls out a very tidy ending but the [TS]

00:39:24   fact is that shooting the president has [TS]

00:39:26   the those have far lower dramatic and [TS]

00:39:28   personal stakes to somebody who's [TS]

00:39:30   invested in Jake and Jody the town then [TS]

00:39:33   you know the the dramatics takes [TS]

00:39:34   inherent in what goes on between Jake [TS]

00:39:36   and Sadie and save his crazy ex and the [TS]

00:39:39   town of Jody you know I mean I could to [TS]

00:39:40   be frank I couldn't have cared less if [TS]

00:39:42   it can be got shot or didn't get shot [TS]

00:39:44   I've got a lot more interesting isn't it [TS]

00:39:45   is funny that we get to that point [TS]

00:39:47   though and I think that says something [TS]

00:39:48   that's about the effectiveness of the [TS]

00:39:50   story of the king is telling us by the [TS]

00:39:52   time i get to i get to Oswald I'm more [TS]

00:39:54   concerned about how dealing with the [TS]

00:39:56   assassination is going to affect Jake's [TS]

00:39:58   life about the course of of of history [TS]

00:40:01   whether whether or not it doesn't work [TS]

00:40:04   out and and and he ends up discovering [TS]

00:40:07   that that it isn't this assumption that [TS]

00:40:09   Alice made that it's going to be better [TS]

00:40:11   with Kennedy living may not be true so [TS]

00:40:14   you know so yeah so I i never really [TS]

00:40:19   made the case for why Kennedy should be [TS]

00:40:21   saved like it was half-hearted was that [TS]

00:40:23   we got out i'll make the case to Jake to [TS]

00:40:25   convince him like this is an important [TS]

00:40:27   thing to do and Jake goes yeah but you [TS]

00:40:28   know well would that really made a big [TS]

00:40:30   difference in our low know what I made a [TS]

00:40:32   big difference in these kids will be [TS]

00:40:33   dying in Vietnam and and we would have [TS]

00:40:35   all this then you must be dying in [TS]

00:40:36   nuclear holocaust and such like a good [TS]

00:40:39   it's not much of a case like he hasn't [TS]

00:40:41   made the case to the reader i think [TS]

00:40:43   that's valid in some ways right because [TS]

00:40:45   you know what happens [TS]

00:40:47   al kills himself before Jay can really [TS]

00:40:49   nail it down right and in some ways that [TS]

00:40:52   Spurs Jake into action without really [TS]

00:40:54   thinking well is this really worth doing [TS]

00:40:56   or not he's just sort of pushed along by [TS]

00:40:58   events [TS]

00:40:59   yeah I think I think you needed I if I [TS]

00:41:02   had that beginning section of the book I [TS]

00:41:04   Jake to do what Jake did I think he [TS]

00:41:06   would have needed [TS]

00:41:08   stronger motivation was provided to him [TS]

00:41:10   so by the end when the end of the book [TS]

00:41:11   comes along obviously we're more [TS]

00:41:12   invested in a local story and we're like [TS]

00:41:14   you know what I wasn't convinced that he [TS]

00:41:17   did decade was worth saving that would [TS]

00:41:19   make a big difference and Jake didn't [TS]

00:41:21   seem that convinced them it's like I [TS]

00:41:22   think it's a failure of the the [TS]

00:41:24   motivation of the plots successful in [TS]

00:41:27   that we like Jake's new story and the [TS]

00:41:28   personal stakes more important but it's [TS]

00:41:29   a kind of a failure that it's not a big [TS]

00:41:32   turnaround from this really strong [TS]

00:41:33   motivation to save JFK cause I felt like [TS]

00:41:35   very early on and maybe it's also [TS]

00:41:37   because like Lisa said you know this you [TS]

00:41:40   know this is not going to be i'll save [TS]

00:41:42   them and everything will be better you [TS]

00:41:44   know that's not gonna happen so well I [TS]

00:41:47   think there's this idea that pervades [TS]

00:41:48   pop culture or at least pop-culture [TS]

00:41:50   million baby boomers have a certain [TS]

00:41:51   stripe that that's the key phrase I [TS]

00:41:53   think if only Kennedy had lived this [TS]

00:41:55   golden era of Camelot would have [TS]

00:41:57   continued through 1968 and everyone [TS]

00:42:01   would have skipped hands as they walked [TS]

00:42:02   into the yeah everyone skip would skip [TS]

00:42:04   hands they walked into the peace corps [TS]

00:42:05   and the war on poverty would have been [TS]

00:42:06   affected and civil rights would have [TS]

00:42:08   happened painlessly blah blah blah and [TS]

00:42:10   so because Kennedy died everyone sees [TS]

00:42:12   that this sort of helpful baby boomer [TS]

00:42:14   Rob productive alternate future going [TS]

00:42:17   with it [TS]

00:42:17   it's the flashpoint theory right yeah [TS]

00:42:19   that's the idea that there is a single [TS]

00:42:21   event that causes all these ripples [TS]

00:42:23   whereas i think was fascinating that [TS]

00:42:25   baby through in the Ray Bradbury's very [TS]

00:42:28   sound of thunder know where is you know [TS]

00:42:30   the idea of this originating idea of [TS]

00:42:32   this butter the butterfly effect whereas [TS]

00:42:34   you know in theory in this time-travel [TS]

00:42:36   universe it's it's just as important [TS]

00:42:40   it's like Kennedy dying is just as [TS]

00:42:41   important as I'm stepping on a butterfly [TS]

00:42:43   depending on how you look at it right [TS]

00:42:45   because they both have ripples it's just [TS]

00:42:47   a question of what what they they touch [TS]

00:42:49   but I think to John's point that that [TS]

00:42:51   Stephen King being older than us and [TS]

00:42:55   having lived through this and there is a [TS]

00:42:57   resonance that I think is suggested and [TS]

00:43:00   that Allah be asleep feels and that [TS]

00:43:02   Stephen clearly feels that having lived [TS]

00:43:04   through it that that of course people [TS]

00:43:05   think oh if only Kennedy had lived I [TS]

00:43:08   think it's because we're more cynical [TS]

00:43:09   and that generation became cynical when [TS]

00:43:11   the president was assassinated that was [TS]

00:43:12   like the end of the innocence for that [TS]

00:43:14   generation I think you take that is [TS]

00:43:16   given that the reason that stephen king [TS]

00:43:17   he does a little bit of work to say well [TS]

00:43:20   now here's why it's important [TS]

00:43:21   Kennedy we should not be assassinated [TS]

00:43:23   but you know he can he goes in with a [TS]

00:43:26   little stronger implicit kind of [TS]

00:43:28   assumption that you know of course we [TS]

00:43:29   all feel like you know what would have [TS]

00:43:32   happened and it would have been better [TS]

00:43:33   because then things got got you know got [TS]

00:43:36   that whereas those of us who didn't live [TS]

00:43:38   through that look back in like really [TS]

00:43:39   with that would have been or wouldn't [TS]

00:43:41   matter and you get cynical everything we [TS]

00:43:43   don't we don't buy that line of [TS]

00:43:44   reasoning about to be another reason not [TS]

00:43:46   to buy it is when you look at the cycles [TS]

00:43:48   of human history or cultural history no [TS]

00:43:51   one idea ever pops up in isolation like [TS]

00:43:53   ideas get replicated across cultures in [TS]

00:43:55   certain time periods all the time and so [TS]

00:43:58   even if Kennedy had been a precipitating [TS]

00:44:00   event towards this generational shift [TS]

00:44:02   into hippie demand Vietnam and so on and [TS]

00:44:05   so forth [TS]

00:44:06   even if he had lived something else [TS]

00:44:07   would have prodded idea people seem to [TS]

00:44:09   forget that Richard Nixon was going to [TS]

00:44:10   be successful politician the sixties no [TS]

00:44:12   matter what so 11 sad thing i think last [TS]

00:44:15   thing I know one thing that bothered me [TS]

00:44:17   is a when Jake emerges from the portal [TS]

00:44:22   back into the future after he's done all [TS]

00:44:24   this and lived this life we see that as [TS]

00:44:28   we've as we've set up to this point [TS]

00:44:30   there isn't a good future that after [TS]

00:44:33   he's changed the past and safe Kennedy [TS]

00:44:36   there are all these earthquakes and you [TS]

00:44:39   know nuclear war and the mean is now [TS]

00:44:42   part of canada and there's not a lot of [TS]

00:44:44   power they only power a few days and [TS]

00:44:46   they're hoodlums who were running around [TS]

00:44:49   with the islands in Canada this can't be [TS]

00:44:51   teenage hoodlums in canada and this is [TS]

00:44:56   one of my problems with it is is I don't [TS]

00:44:57   mind the fact that there's a really [TS]

00:45:00   quick recap of history from that point 2 [TS]

00:45:03   2011 i don't i don't mind that because [TS]

00:45:06   that is sort of not the point of the [TS]

00:45:07   book to to detail the old history of [TS]

00:45:09   what's happened since then [TS]

00:45:10   what bothers me is it feels it felt to [TS]

00:45:13   me kinda like a cop out that the moment [TS]

00:45:15   that he changes the past there are [TS]

00:45:18   earthquakes and you know count there's a [TS]

00:45:22   giant earthquake in Los Angeles and [TS]

00:45:23   things like that get that it wasn't just [TS]

00:45:25   the past that he changed it was like oh [TS]

00:45:26   and also this reason you broke the users [TS]

00:45:29   reinforces tearing their at the part so [TS]

00:45:31   it's like well I might have worked out [TS]

00:45:32   it's not like an alright time travel [TS]

00:45:34   story it's like what you did change its [TS]

00:45:36   like what you did and by the way of [TS]

00:45:38   quakes and stuff that are and by the way [TS]

00:45:40   earthquakes should be that I'd like to [TS]

00:45:43   have seen the argument that Kennedy [TS]

00:45:44   would have not made the letter table and [TS]

00:45:50   was impeached if he had right exactly [TS]

00:45:52   I don't think that's important i mean i [TS]

00:45:54   don't think that the Kennedy factor of [TS]

00:45:56   it is it is important at all what we're [TS]

00:45:58   talking about it to say that I think [TS]

00:46:00   it's not so much that you know [TS]

00:46:02   ok yes he stopped me from being killed [TS]

00:46:04   and that was a big change but i think [TS]

00:46:08   the fact that you know there's also this [TS]

00:46:10   cumulative effect that they start [TS]

00:46:11   talking about the end right if so many [TS]

00:46:13   things that I've gotten changed so much [TS]

00:46:15   has gotten out of balance with all the [TS]

00:46:17   vowels trips back and forth is the meat [TS]

00:46:19   hamburger [TS]

00:46:19   well that's alright and we say it was a [TS]

00:46:22   yellow card man is bonkers it's been 40 [TS]

00:46:24   years of beef so everything the whole [TS]

00:46:27   reality is unstable and again you know [TS]

00:46:30   not to hurt by too much but if you you [TS]

00:46:31   know there isn't there is another [TS]

00:46:32   residence with the dark tower here [TS]

00:46:33   whereas there's this idea of the world [TS]

00:46:35   sort of shaking itself apart because [TS]

00:46:37   people keep screwing with it [TS]

00:46:39   yeah I would have loved to see more [TS]

00:46:41   earthquake-type things happening earlier [TS]

00:46:43   on where you get the idea that the world [TS]

00:46:46   is slowly falling apart rather than 0 [TS]

00:46:48   the second JFK guys and right you know [TS]

00:46:51   Sadie dies everything goes to hell [TS]

00:46:54   la falls off the coast to have he makes [TS]

00:46:56   it on a horse race in the horse that he [TS]

00:46:58   knows is the winner of the Triple Crown [TS]

00:47:00   breaks its leg right now and it's like [TS]

00:47:02   oh geez [TS]

00:47:03   wait a second something is not quite [TS]

00:47:05   right a little bit he comes back five [TS]

00:47:07   years which isn't it well you know he's [TS]

00:47:09   gotta wait five years which is important [TS]

00:47:10   to the whole plot of the book and [TS]

00:47:11   everything but realistically speaking [TS]

00:47:13   realistically speaking at a time travel [TS]

00:47:15   story if you if you put a single person [TS]

00:47:18   from the future into the past five years [TS]

00:47:20   on there is no way that lee harvey [TS]

00:47:22   oswald get that same apartment at JFK [TS]

00:47:24   had it goes to dallas at the same time [TS]

00:47:26   he drives in the convertible was out [TS]

00:47:28   that's honest there's no way because the [TS]

00:47:30   the the changes of I mean it's debatable [TS]

00:47:34   that even if you blink that guy into [TS]

00:47:35   existence for three secondary tap one [TS]

00:47:37   guy in the shoulder in florida and [TS]

00:47:38   disappeared [TS]

00:47:39   there's no way those people in the same [TS]

00:47:40   spot well that's where the obdurate plat [TS]

00:47:41   maps comes in and how you [TS]

00:47:43   it's how you define you have to have a [TS]

00:47:45   correcting effect because you're right [TS]

00:47:47   otherwise things will become a different [TS]

00:47:48   you know the hamburger meat not being [TS]

00:47:50   available would be enough rushing [TS]

00:47:53   everything freaks out right on his last [TS]

00:47:55   trip back when he starts like oh my god [TS]

00:47:57   I mean what have I done just by buying [TS]

00:47:59   you know a shirt or taking is randy was [TS]

00:48:02   found he was right but ya again once [TS]

00:48:04   again there's this unseen force that you [TS]

00:48:06   know whatever this this this forces that [TS]

00:48:08   since the King loves doing this he never [TS]

00:48:10   calls the god or anything or tries not [TS]

00:48:12   to call it God but it's just like me [TS]

00:48:13   except at the end of the stand the [TS]

00:48:15   unseen force that's its handmade it's [TS]

00:48:17   it's him the writer real like a light [TS]

00:48:19   motif through all of his workers that [TS]

00:48:20   there are forces beyond your [TS]

00:48:21   comprehensive and that 20 of you and [TS]

00:48:24   they had and they have a purpose in that [TS]

00:48:25   a plot you know I think the one thing [TS]

00:48:27   that's sort of subtle here that is that [TS]

00:48:29   it's brought up towards the end of the [TS]

00:48:30   book but i think it's interesting is not [TS]

00:48:33   just the obdurate pass but the object [TS]

00:48:34   itself whereas in theory right Jake says [TS]

00:48:38   well I can just go back and fix [TS]

00:48:42   everything I did wrong the first time [TS]

00:48:45   right [TS]

00:48:46   it's just too bad your shoulder right [TS]

00:48:49   exactly and but i don't know about you [TS]

00:48:51   but like you know in some ways that [TS]

00:48:52   might feel like a cop-out but in this he [TS]

00:48:54   decides he can't do it and I felt the [TS]

00:48:56   weight of that yeah it makes you feel [TS]

00:48:58   tired you just read all these pages [TS]

00:49:00   well I I'm not just that but i can think [TS]

00:49:02   about all that he has been through and [TS]

00:49:04   all having to go through and change the [TS]

00:49:06   past but he can't change his life he's [TS]

00:49:08   living his life and that cannot be [TS]

00:49:10   erased [TS]

00:49:11   you know he he has to live with the fact [TS]

00:49:14   that he lived those five years and that [TS]

00:49:16   can eat can hit the reset button on the [TS]

00:49:18   universe that doesn't matter he felt [TS]

00:49:20   like I was on memory and and and saw her [TS]

00:49:23   be horribly wounded men killed by lee [TS]

00:49:26   harvey oswald ouch i was done i was kind [TS]

00:49:30   of rooting for him to go to Groundhog [TS]

00:49:32   Day it in the beginning of the book of [TS]

00:49:34   micah it'll be neat if you did the [TS]

00:49:35   groundhog day think i'm gonna became [TS]

00:49:36   clear that he was going to do a 1 1 [TS]

00:49:38   iteration groundhog and dairy and I saw [TS]

00:49:41   how many pages took him to do that I [TS]

00:49:42   realized there's not enough room Graham [TS]

00:49:44   to do it for the rest but I wouldn't [TS]

00:49:45   perfectly happy for him to Groundhog Day [TS]

00:49:47   the whole book now see that that would [TS]

00:49:49   work for me live years when you gone [TS]

00:49:52   crazy after your number I was not sure [TS]

00:49:54   that that Stephen King was going to do [TS]

00:49:56   that [TS]

00:49:56   and say so i decided that since I [TS]

00:49:58   couldn't change the past i would just go [TS]

00:50:00   back and meet all those people and live [TS]

00:50:01   my life in that little town in Texas no [TS]

00:50:04   I mean iterations like more than once [TS]

00:50:06   right like five just like Groundhog's [TS]

00:50:08   Day where the first time it takes a long [TS]

00:50:09   time and that's a very different book [TS]

00:50:11   yeah right lost all the weight it would [TS]

00:50:13   have lost all the emotional weight [TS]

00:50:15   yeah I will say there's a point at after [TS]

00:50:18   city dies where he is considering that [TS]

00:50:20   Jason was like well just you know I [TS]

00:50:22   could just go back and live in my life [TS]

00:50:24   and ignore JFK and all of that before [TS]

00:50:27   yeah but that that moment when he's [TS]

00:50:30   contemplating that you is the reader [TS]

00:50:32   just kind of think oh gosh she has I [TS]

00:50:33   mean can you imagine having to you live [TS]

00:50:36   through the beginning of the Sadie [TS]

00:50:37   relationship in the middle of the city [TS]

00:50:39   relationship and all of that and having [TS]

00:50:41   to go through all those steps again and [TS]

00:50:43   also because you see in the first town [TS]

00:50:46   in Maine where you know that you're [TS]

00:50:48   basically playing through a script if [TS]

00:50:50   you can you imagine having to relive [TS]

00:50:52   through some of these moments and then [TS]

00:50:54   basically feel like you're on script [TS]

00:50:56   yeah you will be able to do it now [TS]

00:50:58   because you're watching doom little [TS]

00:50:59   children and that he wouldn't fall in [TS]

00:51:01   love with him thats that's the problem [TS]

00:51:03   not just because the older but she [TS]

00:51:04   wouldn't have loved him because he [TS]

00:51:05   wouldn't have been the same person [TS]

00:51:07   yeah well I wouldn't know everything [TS]

00:51:08   that would happen right so you know just [TS]

00:51:10   you just you know living through that [TS]

00:51:12   changes he was a person you're not ready [TS]

00:51:14   to have that romantic like you know [TS]

00:51:16   you're not ready to make the action [TS]

00:51:17   that's the key of the book right you [TS]

00:51:19   can't go back and change the past [TS]

00:51:20   because it's already been lived through [TS]

00:51:22   it that way you know that I think that's [TS]

00:51:24   the that's the conclusion that he comes [TS]

00:51:26   to write this are already happened in [TS]

00:51:29   some ways I can't make it happen again [TS]

00:51:32   even if i'm not seeing it from like the [TS]

00:51:34   first person perspective so i have to [TS]

00:51:37   let it be and he you know he makes that [TS]

00:51:41   huge decision at a certain point to say [TS]

00:51:42   you know do I save you I go back and [TS]

00:51:46   spend all the time with love my life or [TS]

00:51:49   do I essentially you know take the [TS]

00:51:52   sacrifice and save the larger you know [TS]

00:51:54   save the world at large as such as it is [TS]

00:51:56   so in a in a previous podcast i believe [TS]

00:52:00   the it might have been there Neal [TS]

00:52:01   Stephenson podcast I I said something [TS]

00:52:05   negative about Stephen King which is [TS]

00:52:06   that [TS]

00:52:07   I I I said that you know stylistically I [TS]

00:52:11   thought that there are plenty of writers [TS]

00:52:13   who have sort of more more flair and [TS]

00:52:15   more style than Stephen King and you [TS]

00:52:17   know he is not a showy writer he is [TS]

00:52:20   workman like he has he has a style all [TS]

00:52:23   the all his own but it is very [TS]

00:52:24   recognizable you could give me a page a [TS]

00:52:27   Stephen King and I bet without any name [TS]

00:52:29   on it and I bet you I could figure out [TS]

00:52:31   that it was Stephen King because he does [TS]

00:52:33   have a style but what struck me in this [TS]

00:52:35   story is he he is a great storyteller he [TS]

00:52:40   oh yeah he is that the thing that sets [TS]

00:52:43   him apart is it mean he's got [TS]

00:52:45   interesting world building and he's got [TS]

00:52:47   an interesting perspective and his style [TS]

00:52:48   is kind of interesting but he is just a [TS]

00:52:50   great storyteller this this story these [TS]

00:52:53   characters i was absolutely engrossed in [TS]

00:52:57   in in this story and so although people [TS]

00:53:00   i think beat up Stephen King because he [TS]

00:53:02   had such success and he sold so many [TS]

00:53:03   books any rights [TS]

00:53:05   he's written so many books is John and [TS]

00:53:07   Lisa can attest he he he really is [TS]

00:53:11   remarkable at spinning a story and [TS]

00:53:15   making you want to follow absolutely i [TS]

00:53:17   will go blue in the face defending [TS]

00:53:19   stephen king's a craftsman because I [TS]

00:53:21   think he's a master of the storytelling [TS]

00:53:22   craft I I think he has a I think he I [TS]

00:53:25   think he thinks long and hard about the [TS]

00:53:27   best way to tell a story that's meant as [TS]

00:53:29   a good word for two because I mean and [TS]

00:53:31   if you read on writing which is an [TS]

00:53:32   excellent book anybody who are you [TS]

00:53:34   should read it's great [TS]

00:53:35   yes but craftsman also in this is that [TS]

00:53:37   he is not going to be the most poetic [TS]

00:53:40   right he of writers he is not he doesn't [TS]

00:53:43   have that he has a workmanlike in a good [TS]

00:53:46   way a craftsman you know he is a crap [TS]

00:53:50   crafter of stories and of language and [TS]

00:53:52   he knows what he's doing and he does a [TS]

00:53:55   very good job of it and that that's not [TS]

00:53:57   to be looked down on because there are [TS]

00:53:59   lots of people who've written lots of [TS]

00:54:00   highfalutin pros that has beautiful [TS]

00:54:02   fragments and beautiful sentences and it [TS]

00:54:05   and it falls apart as terrible as a [TS]

00:54:07   whole thing right thinking it has a [TS]

00:54:09   superb grasp on on the language that he [TS]

00:54:11   chooses an individual word choices [TS]

00:54:13   because he I know a lot of people say [TS]

00:54:16   he's worthy but he does a great job with [TS]

00:54:18   one or two well-turned sentences that [TS]

00:54:19   will remain [TS]

00:54:20   your brain indelible um I find his word [TS]

00:54:23   choices to actually quite economical [TS]

00:54:24   sometime and very very evocative I mean [TS]

00:54:28   he's not going to be one of these these [TS]

00:54:29   pro stylist where you fall to your knees [TS]

00:54:30   and reference over the the the whale is [TS]

00:54:33   his his words it's like poetry and art [TS]

00:54:35   of angels wept you know but it's it's [TS]

00:54:38   instead you can you can actually see [TS]

00:54:39   these people and hear them the rest of [TS]

00:54:41   your head as you have nothing up [TS]

00:54:43   no that's fantastic you know he doesn't [TS]

00:54:45   use flashy words but he doesn't tells a [TS]

00:54:47   good story and stuff like that I and one [TS]

00:54:50   example comes up from the great [TS]

00:54:51   literature is like Hemingway very simple [TS]

00:54:53   writing right but he was you know it you [TS]

00:54:55   can get a lot of a few simple words are [TS]

00:54:57   with stephen king of the complaint does [TS]

00:54:59   not so much that you're not so much as [TS]

00:55:01   like Hemingway is just that he's corny [TS]

00:55:03   that is you know kind of ham-fisted and [TS]

00:55:05   corny and number Donna thing which is [TS]

00:55:07   classic old-school Stephen King people [TS]

00:55:09   like yeah but that's kinda like if you [TS]

00:55:11   don't but you don't buy into that you're [TS]

00:55:12   into it so the passage that highlighted [TS]

00:55:14   here is it's corny I it's cliche and [TS]

00:55:20   it's like Adam when i read it I'm like I [TS]

00:55:22   he didn't make that up because I must [TS]

00:55:24   have read that before because it's so [TS]

00:55:25   corny and it's so cliche but the magic [TS]

00:55:27   of stephen king and the reason why i [TS]

00:55:29   think is actually a quite a good writer [TS]

00:55:31   in his own way I ignoring the [TS]

00:55:33   storytelling entirely is that you can [TS]

00:55:35   get you to a point with all his other [TS]

00:55:37   skills and tools to wear this corny [TS]

00:55:41   cliche thing that you swear you've heard [TS]

00:55:43   before like a Hallmark greeting card [TS]

00:55:45   wraps around it wraps all the way around [TS]

00:55:47   the corner meter and pops back up into [TS]

00:55:49   like emotional resonance and you're like [TS]

00:55:51   that how did he even do that and so this [TS]

00:55:54   is towards the end of the book it's two [TS]

00:55:56   sentences where he's a he's writing [TS]

00:55:59   about how everything has ended with [TS]

00:56:02   Sadie and everything like that he says [TS]

00:56:04   hearts don't really break if only they [TS]

00:56:06   could in isolation if you have not read [TS]

00:56:10   this book you like this guy's an awful [TS]

00:56:11   red come on it's not really they could [TS]

00:56:13   but when i read that line like you got [TS]

00:56:15   me he he managed he manages to make that [TS]

00:56:18   line that line their work because of [TS]

00:56:20   everything that's built around it and it [TS]

00:56:22   you know it allows you to disable the [TS]

00:56:24   part of your mind that's going to shoot [TS]

00:56:26   that those students sentences down with [TS]

00:56:27   lasers and say this is not good writing [TS]

00:56:29   sir you need to think hard about what [TS]

00:56:31   you're going to right now because you [TS]

00:56:32   think if hearts could break them [TS]

00:56:33   you'd be out of your misery I know it's [TS]

00:56:35   a cliché is a hallmark card it's not [TS]

00:56:37   terrible home with its it's cheap it's a [TS]

00:56:40   cheap insight right it's a cheap insight [TS]

00:56:43   but he really earned it [TS]

00:56:45   yeah I'm right and I highlighted that [TS]

00:56:47   passage unlike you got me heartbroken [TS]

00:56:49   character who has lived through this to [TS]

00:56:52   get to that point [TS]

00:56:53   mmm the key to this book and we've lived [TS]

00:56:55   through and we lived it within no no I [TS]

00:56:57   found the key it's the last page [TS]

00:56:59   actually um this is the this is the part [TS]

00:57:01   i highlighted where it says she is in a [TS]

00:57:04   dream and so am i like all sweet dreams [TS]

00:57:06   will be brief but brevity make sweetness [TS]

00:57:07   doesn't it yes i think so because when [TS]

00:57:09   the time is gone you could never get it [TS]

00:57:11   back [TS]

00:57:11   yeah this is a graphic Stephen King [TS]

00:57:14   where he spent so little time doing that [TS]

00:57:16   thing that we're just talking about [TS]

00:57:17   where he's like he's like talking to the [TS]

00:57:19   reader about about the medic question [TS]

00:57:22   and the ennui and you know lots of [TS]

00:57:24   writers do that throughout the whole [TS]

00:57:25   book stephen king is like straight ahead [TS]

00:57:27   i'm going to tell you a story and he [TS]

00:57:28   saves that he saves that he doesn't [TS]

00:57:30   spend the whole book having people you [TS]

00:57:32   know the author or the character or the [TS]

00:57:34   narrator or anybody especially with the [TS]

00:57:36   narrator's a lot of times in areas just [TS]

00:57:38   like here's what happened on this [TS]

00:57:39   happened happened then and then you know [TS]

00:57:40   in the middle and the end a pivotal [TS]

00:57:42   scene the narrative will say two [TS]

00:57:43   sentences that are not advancing the [TS]

00:57:45   plot that are commenting on the action [TS]

00:57:47   in a very simple way and they stand out [TS]

00:57:49   because the narrator the character of [TS]

00:57:50   the writer whoever is this the voice in [TS]

00:57:52   the book doesn't do that normally and [TS]

00:57:54   jumps out at you when he has a great [TS]

00:57:57   line about that early on in the book [TS]

00:57:58   doesn't it doesn't take say something [TS]

00:57:59   about a base you know he's talking about [TS]

00:58:01   his students very early on is this [TS]

00:58:03   something about the basic job of his of [TS]

00:58:04   a storyteller is this happened and then [TS]

00:58:07   this happened and it's the story that [TS]

00:58:09   matters it's not the right and that's [TS]

00:58:11   that is the sum up that is the sum up of [TS]

00:58:14   Stephen King right and don't take your [TS]

00:58:16   time to go let me tell you why this was [TS]

00:58:17   important isn't it dramatic and he felt [TS]

00:58:19   this is this you know it's no just tell [TS]

00:58:21   the story but there is a moment of [TS]

00:58:23   reflection a moment or two reflection [TS]

00:58:24   and you can land hearts don't really [TS]

00:58:26   very carefully they could you can land [TS]

00:58:27   that if you've built the structure such [TS]

00:58:30   that that that earns its little slot [TS]

00:58:32   there and that you know need the [TS]

00:58:33   characters and you need a good story and [TS]

00:58:35   you have a microcosm of it in [TS]

00:58:38   what's the name of the the janitor in [TS]

00:58:40   the beginning of this book [TS]

00:58:41   Harry yeah yeah but you have a microwave [TS]

00:58:43   in this in Harry's SI where you [TS]

00:58:47   he says that he says it from the [TS]

00:58:48   beginning and you you learn a little bit [TS]

00:58:51   about the essay before you actually get [TS]

00:58:52   to read some of it and initially you're [TS]

00:58:55   like okay yeah i can more or less [TS]

00:58:57   believe that this was a heartbreaking SI [TS]

00:58:59   and then he actually lets you read an [TS]

00:59:02   excerpt and yes it's pretty is poorly [TS]

00:59:05   written as painted and it's also [TS]

00:59:07   heartbreaking it's it's it it hooks you [TS]

00:59:11   like they're they're just hooks that [TS]

00:59:12   keep you moving through the way it's [TS]

00:59:14   written in a way that much more slickly [TS]

00:59:16   produced as they wouldn't do it because [TS]

00:59:18   i don't know about you guys but after i [TS]

00:59:20   finished reading that passage i like [TS]

00:59:21   actually had to put down the kindle for [TS]

00:59:22   a minute or two and you know go snuggle [TS]

00:59:25   my daughter then come back to the book [TS]

00:59:27   it's chilling and actually that show [TS]

00:59:28   that Stephen King you know hehe has i [TS]

00:59:32   know are you know he is it [TS]

00:59:35   well yes he's a he's crazy and he's [TS]

00:59:37   gonna kill us all [TS]

00:59:38   no he that's right in his wheelhouse [TS]

00:59:41   though regulator holy his thing he is [TS]

00:59:45   really good kid he knows all the tricks [TS]

00:59:47   he knows how to pull them out and the [TS]

00:59:50   fact is the end of this book i mean i [TS]

00:59:52   was i mean at the climax where there's a [TS]

00:59:57   confrontation between shake and Lee [TS]

00:59:59   Harvey Oswald in [TS]

00:59:59   Harvey Oswald in [TS]

01:00:00   book depository and I and a shot goes [TS]

01:00:04   awry and sadie is mortally wounded and [TS]

01:00:07   all that that was exciting but I didn't [TS]

01:00:10   find it particularly affecting it was [TS]

01:00:12   really like Jake is going through the [TS]

01:00:14   motions of what he has to do and of [TS]

01:00:15   course the girlfriend it's sort of like [TS]

01:00:17   an episode of a TV series of course the [TS]

01:00:18   characters girlfriend is going to be [TS]

01:00:19   horrible accidentally shot and died [TS]

01:00:21   because but the that's how to put a [TS]

01:00:23   pneumonic but the last one is what get [TS]

01:00:26   last seen pays off everything and is [TS]

01:00:30   amazingly affecting like that room got [TS]

01:00:35   really a bad man came in and kick sand [TS]

01:00:37   in my eyes and made me cry a little bit [TS]

01:00:39   at the end of that I mean it is so [TS]

01:00:41   affecting at the end of this book is [TS]

01:00:42   just he has figured out there are some [TS]

01:00:44   writers and we talking you know like [TS]

01:00:46   your contrasting with Stevenson there [TS]

01:00:47   are some writers who take all that [TS]

01:00:48   little intellectual fancy part of your [TS]

01:00:51   brain right the oh is that so clever I [TS]

01:00:53   appreciate that and then there are [TS]

01:00:55   writers like Stephen King you grab that [TS]

01:00:57   you know the lizard brain the end part [TS]

01:00:59   of you and just and just shake it you [TS]

01:01:02   know and and he's figured out how [TS]

01:01:04   perfectly like like you guys said like [TS]

01:01:06   his craft is perfectly honed to tap into [TS]

01:01:09   that [TS]

01:01:10   well there's the beauty of I mean the [TS]

01:01:12   fact that in in this final scene [TS]

01:01:15   the fact is the jake and Sadie have a [TS]

01:01:18   connection and and there are alternate [TS]

01:01:21   you know alternate versions of them and [TS]

01:01:23   in this case it's a safety Sadie who is [TS]

01:01:24   now an old lady and has never met him [TS]

01:01:26   before and lived that life without him [TS]

01:01:29   and yet they still have a connection and [TS]

01:01:31   he goes back there to Jodi in the [TS]

01:01:34   present and meets her dances and then [TS]

01:01:37   dances with her and it's like so [TS]

01:01:40   somewhere in time you can practically [TS]

01:01:41   see Christopher even James seymour [TS]

01:01:43   making misty eyes at each other as they [TS]

01:01:45   go through this but it's really touching [TS]

01:01:47   I think that and doesn't he doesn't make [TS]

01:01:50   a he makes a Jack Finney reference in [TS]

01:01:53   the ya-ya not have to work yeah yeah [TS]

01:01:55   yeah but it's just it'sit's i looked up [TS]

01:01:59   because i have that book on my shelf and [TS]

01:02:01   now it's looking up as I've Illustrated [TS]

01:02:02   looking at but the Jack Benny time it [TS]

01:02:04   again myself [TS]

01:02:05   yeah that's good yeah now but such a [TS]

01:02:09   great again there's the payoff right [TS]

01:02:10   after all this sort of failure of [TS]

01:02:12   changing time he the I felt like that it [TS]

01:02:18   could have ended and it would have not [TS]

01:02:20   been particularly fulfilling and then [TS]

01:02:22   and then when he goes after having sort [TS]

01:02:25   of like return to the president being [TS]

01:02:26   kind of disconnected from everything and [TS]

01:02:29   he goes to Texas and it was kind of you [TS]

01:02:33   know I was almost giving us like he's [TS]

01:02:35   gonna go yeah go see what's there and it [TS]

01:02:38   was yeah so I i was i was really [TS]

01:02:41   impressed i mean to wrap to wrap this up [TS]

01:02:43   i don't know what I really expected from [TS]

01:02:45   this I the most recent stephen king book [TS]

01:02:47   I've read is i don't know i mean it was [TS]

01:02:51   a long time ago I mean I i think i might [TS]

01:02:54   have been one of the dark tower like [TS]

01:02:57   this third Dark Tower book maybe but [TS]

01:02:59   it's been a long time since i've read a [TS]

01:03:01   stephen king book and I was you know I i [TS]

01:03:05   was i really liked it is one of my [TS]

01:03:07   favorite books of 2011 [TS]

01:03:09   I thought that he hit you know I i got [TS]

01:03:12   the time-travel mechanics mechanics were [TS]

01:03:13   interesting but in the end i thought [TS]

01:03:15   this story of the the you know the love [TS]

01:03:19   story that's happening with the ticking [TS]

01:03:22   of the clock of the impending [TS]

01:03:24   assassination and then the resolution at [TS]

01:03:27   the end I you know I just I really [TS]

01:03:29   enjoyed it way more than I thought that [TS]

01:03:32   I would I I kind of wished that I didn't [TS]

01:03:35   you know I wanted to talk about it and [TS]

01:03:36   that's one of the reasons i finished it [TS]

01:03:39   so rapidly but at the same time I was [TS]

01:03:41   torn because I didn't want to because it [TS]

01:03:44   because it was so engrossing and so [TS]

01:03:45   wrapping up you kind of want to savor it [TS]

01:03:48   and so I was sad to read 500 patients in [TS]

01:03:51   traffic for hours or so but yeah I mean [TS]

01:03:53   you know it's still I agree it was [TS]

01:03:55   incredibly incredibly effective book in [TS]

01:03:58   a really well told story [TS]

01:03:59   well I think this is definitely the one [TS]

01:04:01   he written before this was under the [TS]

01:04:03   dome and I think this is definitely [TS]

01:04:04   leagues above under the dome this is [TS]

01:04:07   this is I think a whole new level of [TS]

01:04:09   storytelling compared to that one john [TS]

01:04:11   what about this one what's your verdict [TS]

01:04:12   on 11 22 63 you probably shouldn't let [TS]

01:04:15   me go last but you can always read this [TS]

01:04:17   in two different sequences you would [TS]

01:04:18   like this was not my favorite recent [TS]

01:04:22   stephen king book I at this point and I [TS]

01:04:25   really [TS]

01:04:26   feel like I've read so many stephen king [TS]

01:04:28   books that he has to do a lot to [TS]

01:04:30   surprise me and when i read this book I [TS]

01:04:32   think it's like all this is like fifty [TS]

01:04:33   percent this book 25-percent that book [TS]

01:04:35   really you know that he has trouble with [TS]

01:04:38   endings I have trouble stephen king's [TS]

01:04:39   endings and he has trouble with them and [TS]

01:04:41   you know this is the thing we do we read [TS]

01:04:43   the book together and we both know how [TS]

01:04:45   it's gonna end doesn't have no he thinks [TS]

01:04:47   they're fine [TS]

01:04:48   yeah I don't know it seems like you're [TS]

01:04:50   Stephenson has prepared and there are [TS]

01:04:51   some things that he does in the endings [TS]

01:04:53   that I don't like let's put it that way [TS]

01:04:55   and he does them again here and i [TS]

01:04:57   continued not like them at it it's so [TS]

01:04:59   which which is what what what in [TS]

01:05:01   specific because i love the coda in [TS]

01:05:03   texas i don't really love the the the [TS]

01:05:06   couple of chapters before that [TS]

01:05:08   well it's see the thing is with me and [TS]

01:05:10   Steve we both know we have an [TS]

01:05:13   understanding [TS]

01:05:14   I know that he's gonna do the things [TS]

01:05:16   that annoy me about this you know this [TS]

01:05:17   yeah ya are on first name basis I I know [TS]

01:05:20   that he's gonna do things in it but I I [TS]

01:05:21   accept that he's going to do those [TS]

01:05:23   things like for example under the dome [TS]

01:05:24   under the dome was not a goes as good a [TS]

01:05:26   book of this but it's more i have an [TS]

01:05:31   easier time with that visits lock and I [TS]

01:05:33   was perfectly fine to go through into [TS]

01:05:34   the dome even though I knew every single [TS]

01:05:36   thing that was going to happen and [TS]

01:05:37   practically how it was gonna play out [TS]

01:05:39   and that I wasn't going to be satisfied [TS]

01:05:40   with the explanation of the end and I [TS]

01:05:42   wasn't it was like you know I'm right [TS]

01:05:43   with you on this one it's kind of almost [TS]

01:05:45   worse when he's got like a heart of a [TS]

01:05:47   good book there and really promising [TS]

01:05:48   start but then he just goes to the [TS]

01:05:50   ending is so might my complaint about it [TS]

01:05:51   mainly is that when when he goes back to [TS]

01:05:54   see it sees how things have gone wrong [TS]

01:05:56   and you already covered a lot of things [TS]

01:05:57   with the earthquakes and stuff was okay [TS]

01:05:58   when he goes out and see how things have [TS]

01:06:00   gone wrong [TS]

01:06:00   it's like Steve you gotta decide are you [TS]

01:06:03   gonna is this are the details of this [TS]

01:06:05   important I is going to be a book about [TS]

01:06:08   the alternate history or the details of [TS]

01:06:11   time-travel are those mechanics or [TS]

01:06:12   whatever or just going to be that other [TS]

01:06:14   book that you were riding and he's like [TS]

01:06:15   well it's mostly about the book when [TS]

01:06:16   writing but let me do this thing here [TS]

01:06:18   with the Mad Max guys maybe a little [TS]

01:06:20   stretch for the young hooligans yeah [TS]

01:06:22   indian province and and and it's like [TS]

01:06:25   sometimes like I would have been happy [TS]

01:06:26   if you want to ride that fucker would [TS]

01:06:27   have been with you but you were writing [TS]

01:06:29   this other book but you like but I can [TS]

01:06:30   stick this thing in here and then the [TS]

01:06:32   ending with the thing that that kind of [TS]

01:06:34   model and ending that the Jason was [TS]

01:06:36   buying maybe I've seen too many times [TS]

01:06:37   from him but what [TS]

01:06:39   alright I i was out if I and I always go [TS]

01:06:42   through this thing I'm like when I'm [TS]

01:06:43   reading Stephen King book like Steve I [TS]

01:06:44   know you're going to end this but here's [TS]

01:06:46   how i would end and i would like a [TS]

01:06:47   better is like not doing that way I'm [TS]

01:06:49   like all right you know do it your way [TS]

01:06:50   and i'm with you and the way i would end [TS]

01:06:52   it is the two ways i would have been in [TS]

01:06:55   this one way is to have and this could [TS]

01:06:58   have again before even reading the book [TS]

01:07:00   you just know the plot of the book and [TS]

01:07:01   always going about pirate talk about the [TS]

01:07:02   groundhog day thing one way to do it [TS]

01:07:04   would be the injector is our as you can [TS]

01:07:07   to make sure our lee harvey oswald was [TS]

01:07:09   the lone gunman turns out he's not the [TS]

01:07:11   lone gunman but rather than you know I [TS]

01:07:13   stop Lee Harvey Oswald but then he still [TS]

01:07:15   gets shot by the other gunmen you stop [TS]

01:07:17   him you think he's the only one but then [TS]

01:07:18   you see this shadowy guy in the grassy [TS]

01:07:20   knoll go off to the side and it's like [TS]

01:07:21   it's at the shadow of doubt whether you [TS]

01:07:23   really solved it and stuff like that [TS]

01:07:24   that wasn't what they were doing fine if [TS]

01:07:27   you're going to do this when he goes [TS]

01:07:28   back and he finds everything you know [TS]

01:07:29   all messed up [TS]

01:07:31   I don't need to know how it's messed up [TS]

01:07:32   and I can you tell me specifically how [TS]

01:07:34   it's messed up is worse I i would be [TS]

01:07:36   happy if you came back through the [TS]

01:07:37   portal and it was just great ash [TS]

01:07:38   everywhere and snowy like a scene from [TS]

01:07:40   the road or something and then you just [TS]

01:07:42   walk right back through you know what I [TS]

01:07:43   mean or something like that and it but [TS]

01:07:45   if he feels compelled to put in that one [TS]

01:07:47   or two or three chapters there any feels [TS]

01:07:49   compelled to how the guy go down and [TS]

01:07:50   meet her when she's old I don't need any [TS]

01:07:52   of that I don't need to meeting when [TS]

01:07:53   he's like as far as I'm concerned that [TS]

01:07:55   point he's done all the work he's going [TS]

01:07:57   to doing that book and he was successful [TS]

01:07:58   any kind of screws it up man but but [TS]

01:08:00   it's you know I'm with him I'm we have [TS]

01:08:03   an understanding and i go i don't i [TS]

01:08:05   don't agree about the about the very [TS]

01:08:06   last code because i like the the [TS]

01:08:09   reinforcement not only yes it's it's [TS]

01:08:11   sweet and sappy and and it made me cry [TS]

01:08:13   but I like effect that it reinforces [TS]

01:08:16   that that town is real and that it you [TS]

01:08:20   know it and he sees it in the present i [TS]

01:08:22   think that i think there's some closure [TS]

01:08:24   there that i like that that he is you [TS]

01:08:26   know he has been profoundly changed by [TS]

01:08:29   his experience in a way and that it was [TS]

01:08:31   real and it and and those people did [TS]

01:08:34   live there [TS]

01:08:35   I like that part of it i completely [TS]

01:08:38   agree with you about the province of [TS]

01:08:41   main section being yeah [TS]

01:08:43   are you really because it even so it's [TS]

01:08:45   like this little old man is a wheelchair [TS]

01:08:48   says sit down Sonny and let me tell you [TS]

01:08:51   recap of the last 30 years it won't be [TS]

01:08:53   too long but it will be a little bit [TS]

01:08:54   long [TS]

01:08:55   I don't need to know all the alternate [TS]

01:08:56   history I i rather have intended like a [TS]

01:08:59   short story short stories don't do that [TS]

01:09:00   because you don't have room short [TS]

01:09:01   stories always end in that other way and [TS]

01:09:03   so so do it that way there you know and [TS]

01:09:05   you can still have the same the same [TS]

01:09:07   code of the same emotional code about [TS]

01:09:09   him realizing that the realizations [TS]

01:09:11   about life that damn nails so well about [TS]

01:09:13   you know you can't do it you can't go [TS]

01:09:14   back and you're you know lived through [TS]

01:09:16   that again you're a changed person [TS]

01:09:17   you can have all those without having [TS]

01:09:19   him go dance with her and she's 80 or [TS]

01:09:21   whatever i guess now I mean no I don't I [TS]

01:09:24   don't think I don't begrudge him doing [TS]

01:09:26   this and I don't you know sometimes it [TS]

01:09:28   works sometimes i will say that the one [TS]

01:09:29   stephen king book was ending i actually [TS]

01:09:32   like pretty much it on unqualified no [TS]

01:09:35   qualifiers nothing you know I he and i [TS]

01:09:38   were an exact agreement was the ending [TS]

01:09:40   of the extended version of the standard [TS]

01:09:41   I think that's the only book that he [TS]

01:09:43   ended under percent to my satisfaction [TS]

01:09:44   that is because they're sending it to my [TS]

01:09:51   best but probably one of my favorite [TS]

01:09:53   endings of John books of all time is it [TS]

01:09:56   is good anybody did like this anything I [TS]

01:09:58   did like that he that he wrapped it up [TS]

01:09:59   and and gave gave me is the reader the [TS]

01:10:02   kind of appropriate closure for what I [TS]

01:10:04   just seen I think that's part of it too [TS]

01:10:05   is just that that I i had invested a lot [TS]

01:10:08   of time and thought into this [TS]

01:10:10   relationship and so to sort of get that [TS]

01:10:12   last bit that that it did you know that [TS]

01:10:14   connection was there and it didn't [TS]

01:10:15   matter and yeah that was nice and it but [TS]

01:10:18   it there was some stuff before it got [TS]

01:10:20   there that was not so well so we could [TS]

01:10:23   we could go on a hundred perhaps we will [TS]

01:10:25   but i'm going to close up the [TS]

01:10:28   incomparable book club [TS]

01:10:30   we should probably talk about Stephen [TS]

01:10:31   King some or some other time I think I [TS]

01:10:33   think we do a whole podcast about the [TS]

01:10:34   stand we could probably do 80 hours [TS]

01:10:35   about the stand given that it's [TS]

01:10:37   approximately 5,000 pages long and i'm [TS]

01:10:41   gonna have these really great power [TS]

01:10:42   tower so we can do a thing about the [TS]

01:10:44   dark tower i guess yeah doctors even [TS]

01:10:46   longer have you read it to its many [TS]

01:10:49   maternity and Jason we can all read it [TS]

01:10:50   together it'll really loud [TS]

01:10:53   yes but until then until we read many [TS]

01:10:57   more things by by Stephen King go before [TS]

01:11:00   before we go by the way [TS]

01:11:02   for the purposes of our friends who are [TS]

01:11:07   following along at home and would like [TS]

01:11:08   to read the things that the incomparable [TS]

01:11:11   book club is reading our next book club [TS]

01:11:15   selection i can actually we thought [TS]

01:11:17   ahead far enough that I can say it on [TS]

01:11:19   the podcast our next book club selection [TS]

01:11:21   is a short story collection by maureen [TS]

01:11:25   McHugh called after the apocalypse that [TS]

01:11:28   will be the next thing we read in about [TS]

01:11:31   a month so you've got some time to read [TS]

01:11:33   many stories by maureen McHugh after the [TS]

01:11:36   apocalypse so until the next [TS]

01:11:38   incomparable podcast i would like to [TS]

01:11:42   thank my guests [TS]

01:11:43   Lisa Schmeisser thank you very much for [TS]

01:11:46   being here [TS]

01:11:47   it was a pleasure serenity called well [TS]

01:11:49   thank you thank you John siracusa thank [TS]

01:11:53   you for lending your your encyclopedia [TS]

01:11:55   acknowledged of Stephen King to the [TS]

01:11:56   proceedings [TS]

01:11:57   I'm your long gunman Jason Dean Morgan [TS]

01:12:00   thank you for being here and for reading [TS]

01:12:02   the book people like a day but i bet i [TS]

01:12:06   plan to do it again nice that that's [TS]

01:12:07   right you will you like this you like [TS]

01:12:09   working under deadlines i do i'm much [TS]

01:12:11   better pretty good thing my job of us [TS]

01:12:14   and last finished book 500 pages bang [TS]

01:12:17   just like that [TS]

01:12:19   alright so thanks thanks everybody and [TS]

01:12:22   thanks to the great and comfortable [TS]

01:12:23   listening audience until next time for [TS]

01:12:25   the incomparable I'm Jason snow [TS]

01:12:27   [Music] [TS]

01:12:33   [Music] [TS]