The Incomparable

304: Law of Diminishing Ninja Returns

 

  the incomparable number 304 2 2016 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable we're gonna do a special [TS]

  episode about the TV season pass now you [TS]

  know technically the TV season is [TS]

  endless and it never stops and there's [TS]

  always new stuff on now even in the [TS]

  summertime but we're going to take this [TS]

  moment sort of for tradition sake you [TS]

  gotta draw a line somewhere and the [TS]

  traditional broadcast network TV season [TS]

  did just end and so we're going to do a [TS]

  couple episodes in the next month or so [TS]

  about television sort of wrapping up [TS]

  general interest like lots of different [TS]

  stuff and I decided there was so much in [TS]

  this times in these times of confusion [TS]

  times of peak TV that we would take the [TS]

  superhero ish kind of shows and throw [TS]

  them all in a pot and do an episode [TS]

  about them and that's this episode so [TS]

  joining me to talk about the the year [TS]

  gone by in superhero TV and other comic [TS]

  book related TV it's a fine panel of [TS]

  guest dan morgan is here [TS]

  hi dan I Jason pleasure to be here from [TS]

  i should say from the arrow cast yes [TS]

  from the flash flash cast is mr. [TS]

  philipose lachrymose high and also for [TS]

  the flash flash cast Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

  hello hello [TS]

  and also from the flash flash cast at [TS]

  Stony sindelar culinary arts we roll [TS]

  deep that's how we do it all right yeah [TS]

  I feel outnumbered [TS]

  yeah well where the point I'd like maybe [TS]

  time fragments yeah motivation two most [TS]

  most also has a has the daredevil rewind [TS]

  pin on his chest so he's a he's got he's [TS]

  got a lot of superheroes that he's [TS]

  covering and also joining us a guy who's [TS]

  not in any flash cast about superheroes [TS]

  because he saves that for dragons and [TS]

  ice zombies it's Monty actually I'm [TS]

  auntie I spent the last five years [TS]

  trapped on a hellish podcast I'm just [TS]

  adopting Monty for my arrow forever be [TS]

  honorary arrow cast this text I worry [TS]

  that money's gonna spend this entire [TS]

  podcast flashing back to this five years [TS]

  of good and we're just gonna be like why [TS]

  is this relevant design and such a weird [TS]

  week i'm awake when your podcasting I [TS]

  like money but this the flashbacks in [TS]

  the season [TS]

  and I'm not as useful as facial hair [TS]

  keeps changing my grows out if that's [TS]

  what you mean [TS]

  hey we're plugging superhero related [TS]

  stuff we do i would say i right about [TS]

  arrow and Gotham and marvel's agents of [TS]

  shield on previously not TV excellent [TS]

  plug [TS]

  well done while plugged guys I'm [TS]

  actually jason from episode to thousands [TS]

  of the incomparable an immortal mad man [TS]

  killed my family and I've come back in [TS]

  time for unspecified reasons to change [TS]

  history so said I've chosen all of you [TS]

  to be my champions because of on-again [TS]

  unspecified reasons that i was going on [TS]

  with everything that's one word for [TS]

  expected for the expendable ones i guess [TS]

  if you do have the dust you're just [TS]

  changing the present but you'll be [TS]

  legends that sounds like a show it's [TS]

  gonna be really really good [TS]

  I mean really excited about that kind of [TS]

  show I'm not that excited about the [TS]

  other nine people that have been chosen [TS]

  with me know when he was gonna yeah [TS]

  development i think i think in the next [TS]

  season our show will be much better [TS]

  I don't want to be trapped on a [TS]

  spaceship with dan take that [TS]

  so let's let's uh start with we'll do [TS]

  some check-ins on shows that of that are [TS]

  already exist before we go to the the [TS]

  new shows already existed i saw the [TS]

  flashing arrow we mentioned we obviously [TS]

  we've got people here who talked about [TS]

  those shows weekly on the TV podcast [TS]

  from the incomparable if you don't know [TS]

  about it you should check it out we [TS]

  recap and review lots and lots of show [TS]

  is on the TV podcast including some [TS]

  superhero shows uh so what why don't we [TS]

  start with those two since they're kind [TS]

  of in this connected universe and and [TS]

  returning shows what everybody think [TS]

  about the season of arrow as a whole [TS]

  let's start there since we've got a [TS]

  monte and Dan especially representing [TS]

  the deep focus on the arrow show but I [TS]

  know everybody watched it so what do you [TS]

  guys think of this season of arrow neal [TS]

  mcdonough know is you're not around [TS]

  pronounce his name but he's great deal [TS]

  McConaughey's even fantastic [TS]

  yes he made this season if you thank God [TS]

  for neal mcdonough because after last [TS]

  year's wet blanket that was Michelle [TS]

  goal [TS]

  yeah it was a low bar to clear but he [TS]

  cleared it with room to spare [TS]

  by like a guy who enjoys being able [TS]

  really evil with a smile on his face [TS]

  did you guys see season 3 of justified [TS]

  yes I did yes [TS]

  yeah like this is kind of becoming his [TS]

  bread-and-butter and I for one applaud [TS]

  the move [TS]

  he's he enjoys eating scenery at a [TS]

  tremendous rate I'm totally okay with [TS]

  that and he just he really it's [TS]

  fascinating to me I mean he was credited [TS]

  in all of the he appeared in almost [TS]

  every episode in season except for a few [TS]

  and he's credited special appearance by [TS]

  and everyone which makes me wonder if [TS]

  they just shoveled a whole lot of cash [TS]

  in his direction i had several moments [TS]

  where I thought to myself how did arrow [TS]

  a forward meal McDonough because he's [TS]

  way lyric video but he's I mean hey he [TS]

  was worth every penny day yeah i agree i [TS]

  greedy the importance of having a good [TS]

  villain and the villain ideally the [TS]

  villain has some kind of plan and yeah [TS]

  it's gonna be flawed because they're [TS]

  gonna have to be foiled but they gotta [TS]

  have a plan [TS]

  flash they gotta have a plan and then [TS]

  and ideally you've got to just enjoy how [TS]

  to chew the scenery and you know Damien [TS]

  dark cup with a name like that he's got [TS]

  to be a good villain and he was really [TS]

  want darhk that ax ya strange the ages [TS]

  for evil [TS]

  now hold on real quick before we start [TS]

  putting a bunch of feathers in Arrow's [TS]

  cap was well well then it doesn't mind [TS]

  dan I know I'm doing things like you [TS]

  normally do the fetish to help with [TS]

  stability of your that's right now most [TS]

  okay thank you [TS]

  you know I have guy English in my closet [TS]

  right now so that you guys are you on [TS]

  the show arrow was a punching above its [TS]

  weight with nukes agents of shield and [TS]

  Gotham and arrow all head nuclear weapon [TS]

  plots going on at the end of the season [TS]

  only arrow decided it was a good idea [TS]

  for an eight o'clock show to blow up a [TS]

  city and say oh tens of thousands of [TS]

  people are dead off-screen and they [TS]

  don't even mention it the flash [TS]

  university systems near [TS]

  there's nothing there's just there's [TS]

  major issues going on there i guess but [TS]

  i guess i think the problem you know if [TS]

  the Pharaoh had any problems leading up [TS]

  to the end of the season [TS]

  I think what's great about Damien dark [TS]

  is that he does have an agenda he is the [TS]

  hero of his own story told me in a way [TS]

  that in the way that racial goal was [TS]

  just like super concerned about like org [TS]

  charts and it i think that will work [TS]

  well that worked well i agree that I [TS]

  feel like they try to amp it up to a [TS]

  degree that wasn't maybe wasn't [TS]

  necessary and didn't mean that some of [TS]

  the stuff in the in the finale fell a [TS]

  little flat I felt fail the final [TS]

  confrontation was kind of anticlimactic [TS]

  after you after you pulled out nukes [TS]

  like really where do you have to go [TS]

  after that and it is weird [TS]

  unless that in 2000 nukes unless you end [TS]

  up making that anything like for the [TS]

  next season unless you're setting [TS]

  something up [TS]

  I to just do that as sort of an example [TS]

  of how evil the sky is and how much he's [TS]

  powered up now like I don't know it [TS]

  seemed it seemed unnecessary Lee like [TS]

  what's the word I'm looking for [TS]

  it just it seems like a raise the stakes [TS]

  a little bit too much I felt like we [TS]

  were right back in the eighties with all [TS]

  the nuclear cold war stuff going on this [TS]

  this year does it does everything have [TS]

  to be the end of the world I mean that [TS]

  was the other thought that is also [TS]

  seemed awfully prosaic that that it was [TS]

  going to be nuclear weapons blowing [TS]

  everything up when this is a super magic [TS]

  guy i kinda for it figured that would [TS]

  lead to some horrible magic thing he [TS]

  would do but no that's not it its [TS]

  computers that can take over magically [TS]

  can take over guess there's the magic [TS]

  it's the computers must be magical to be [TS]

  able to launch every single nuclear [TS]

  missile in the world but they they they [TS]

  are boy they really these city shows [TS]

  really don't know anything about [TS]

  computers they really you have the techs [TS]

  eteam as we refer to them on the arrow [TS]

  verse cast they yeah they should not be [TS]

  there as far as they're concerned [TS]

  apparently all technology is [TS]

  indistinguishable from magic [TS]

  yeah I will be interested to see if they [TS]

  deal with the aftermath of the entire [TS]

  world's nuclear arsenal being lost right [TS]

  as i'm pretty sure what happened was all [TS]

  15,000 nuclear missiles were launched [TS]

  they were going to take exactly two hour [TS]

  to reach their destination except for [TS]

  one which was going to reach star city [TS]

  in 45 minutes and make a foiled by a [TS]

  handheld camera and a tablet all 15,000 [TS]

  other missiles got their horizon flipped [TS]

  upside down so they thought they were [TS]

  supposed to go into space instead of [TS]

  down to earth which is not how gravity [TS]

  works that's not how to clear missiles [TS]

  working but they all went into space for [TS]

  now there are no nukes left on earth [TS]

  enero or presumably flash you would [TS]

  think that would have some kind of [TS]

  effect on and spaces irradiated that was [TS]

  also the aliens come next season and [TS]

  they're really mad like you believed to [TS]

  live in the solar system Citadel say [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  Green Lantern's gonna write us a ticket [TS]

  will be right and jon jones is gonna [TS]

  show up and be like seriously people [TS]

  he's got mad so I thought I thought [TS]

  arrow have a stronger year than the year [TS]

  before I thought the flashback for kind [TS]

  of ridiculous but we're working point [TS]

  now where next season presumably they're [TS]

  basically gonna have to tell a story [TS]

  that leads up to the first episode of [TS]

  the first season I'm kind of looking [TS]

  forward to that although i suspect it [TS]

  still will be unnecessary I would be [TS]

  happy if they drop the flash back and [TS]

  seat entirely i'm also really amused by [TS]

  the idea that in the sixth season [TS]

  they'll have to come up with some other [TS]

  conceit or flashback to the middle of [TS]

  the first season of arrow we got a guy [TS]

  English has been advocating for that [TS]

  since like day one but i think well I [TS]

  mean just drop it at that point there's [TS]

  no reason not to use your unnecessarily [TS]

  constrained by it and you really you [TS]

  have a great idea for two years and they [TS]

  were down to like two minutes of [TS]

  flashbacks per episode in this last [TS]

  season they did not have enough story [TS]

  and they did women try when you've done [TS]

  it for four out of the five years I can [TS]

  see why you feel like you need to wrap [TS]

  it up but yeah I think after season five [TS]

  maybe just let it go [TS]

  I like the couple of episodes where the [TS]

  flashbacks worked all over on the is [TS]

  diggle diggle had some good ones [TS]

  yeah there's one yeah they wanted to [TS]

  others too but yeah I think in there [TS]

  wanted to episode where they dropped [TS]

  entirely and you have to be and you're [TS]

  like I really did not miss this flight i [TS]

  can go through a little praise to some [TS]

  of the supporting cast a narrow I i'm [TS]

  constantly impressed by the supporting [TS]

  cast a narrow especially Diggle and [TS]

  Felicity I think those are our [TS]

  characters that brings so much dimension [TS]

  to the part they make the leading man [TS]

  look better because [TS]

  they give him things to play off of and [TS]

  know that the way that they interact [TS]

  with Oliver i think is a I think it's a [TS]

  that something got some good they got [TS]

  they got whether it's luck or things a [TS]

  little bit of luck and then also the [TS]

  wisdom to see what they had but those [TS]

  those are those actors are both very [TS]

  good and the characters really help that [TS]

  show i think that would be that show [TS]

  would be not watchable like thinking [TS]

  maybe i would argue if you didn't have [TS]

  such a great sort of trio at the at the [TS]

  core of it with with Diggle and Felicity [TS]

  along with all of her and they had a [TS]

  great season arc I mean at the end of [TS]

  the day [TS]

  yeah i mean comparing it to other things [TS]

  like the flash they actually had a full [TS]

  season arc that yeah didn't seem to [TS]

  stammer yeah they really did run right [TS]

  through and they will they had I mean I [TS]

  think they ran right through for the [TS]

  most part there were a couple hiccups [TS]

  here and there but they stuck to the [TS]

  main plot he Damon dark shows up in [TS]

  episode 1 and you know is evil and then [TS]

  basically you know we unfold that [TS]

  through the course of the season there's [TS]

  a couple other good little mini arcs in [TS]

  there there's some dumb arcs I think we [TS]

  all probably agree that the I can't tell [TS]

  my girlfriend about my filmmaking [TS]

  community high on the ark was silly i [TS]

  think they were just trying to back out [TS]

  of Oliver marrying Felicity which by the [TS]

  way [TS]

  shouldn't we be married by now she seems [TS]

  to have completely forgiven him but the [TS]

  marriage did not go back on [TS]

  well you know sometimes people feel very [TS]

  strongly when they're like two about [TS]

  illegitimate love children loves fickle [TS]

  as we know as we now still better still [TS]

  better season than last year's numero [TS]

  yes [TS]

  oh absolutely this is yeah i'm really [TS]

  enjoying Felicity's mother and Curtis [TS]

  Holt's yeah well that's fantastic [TS]

  both of them are enthusiastic about [TS]

  things and not mopey usually which I [TS]

  love mom smokes so much I do she's the [TS]

  greatest and i have i've enjoyed every [TS]

  every episode she's been in the minute [TS]

  she shows up on screen charlotte ross is [TS]

  a pretty underrated player in this [TS]

  university that's me [TS]

  she's great and Jean Paul Blackthorne to [TS]

  rr4 yeah that's all i can say is that [TS]

  she even makes Paul Blackthorne is [TS]

  character sort of interesting which for [TS]

  me is a big thing because I i think they [TS]

  should kill them off [TS]

  couple seasons ago I find him when I [TS]

  find him completely useless and boring i [TS]

  hope maybe you know with with the the [TS]

  Oliver Queen administration potentially [TS]

  coming up in season five maybe they'll [TS]

  give him something to do that will make [TS]

  them interesting but as the cop on the [TS]

  edge you skeptical of everything and [TS]

  keeps getting into trouble [TS]

  it's like his daughters keep getting [TS]

  murdered yeah he has a heart condition [TS]

  only when it's convenient I'm coming for [TS]

  you [TS]

  he's also the list of open topic in the [TS]

  world record for the first few seasons [TS]

  he's got a lot on his mind [TS]

  uh-huh what he wasn't his daughters keep [TS]

  getting killed me back in the day [TS]

  beautiful beginning coming back from the [TS]

  dead and becoming assassins and bringing [TS]

  home girlfriends were heir to the dragon [TS]

  and it's all good topic and its really [TS]

  tough like I was gonna say that i'm [TS]

  looking forward to season five I am [TS]

  really kind of interested in the Oliver [TS]

  as the mayor of Star City Art which i [TS]

  believe was an Arsenal in the comics I [TS]

  don't know I just like the idea of [TS]

  balancing like we we got very little of [TS]

  Oliver Queen this season like it really [TS]

  was very centric on you know he is the [TS]

  green arrow right that's his identity [TS]

  and we didn't have to have been [TS]

  balancing as much as he did in some of [TS]

  the early seasons and I think this is a [TS]

  new interesting and wrinkle for that how [TS]

  do you fight crime and be the mayor I [TS]

  love that the secret identity wrinkle of [TS]

  like it's not just that he's a person [TS]

  with a secret identity he's the mayor of [TS]

  the city with and he's also a superhero [TS]

  I bet that's where you get away with its [TS]

  great hello I'm looking for the police [TS]

  commissioner meetings where be running [TS]

  against the light of your like I [TS]

  promised your council meeting and police [TS]

  scanner goes off near like guys can we [TS]

  to table this 40 little bit i gotta go [TS]

  but you have really specific crime stats [TS]

  like this guy got married last night [TS]

  like what you doing about that [TS]

  yeah before we leave I will say I'm so [TS]

  happy there's as much John Barrowman as [TS]

  there is yeah always happy when he shows [TS]

  up he's not even a villain anymore you [TS]

  know released being Thea's father he's a [TS]

  persistent nuisance more than anything [TS]

  else which is enjoyable when he's a [TS]

  special kind of helicopter parent [TS]

  check the tiger mom little bit [TS]

  alright let's move on and talk about the [TS]

  flash than me at the arrows a parent [TS]

  obviously the flash cast covered this [TS]

  well episode by episode III I get the [TS]

  sense from everybody that the general [TS]

  feeling is that season 2 did not go as [TS]

  well as season one did would that be [TS]

  accurate to say what's our general when [TS]

  i finish it [TS]

  oh man that's generous [TS]

  I have been thinking about this because [TS]

  part of the problem is it's they didn't [TS]

  have a very strong feeling this season [TS]

  zoom was mostly incomprehensible and a [TS]

  lot of his motivation was opaque and [TS]

  best and I feel like this this season [TS]

  was a lot of dropped potential and the [TS]

  things that were already problems [TS]

  emerging in season when we're not [TS]

  addressed in season two for example the [TS]

  flashes serious problems when characters [TS]

  and it only got worse this year so it [TS]

  was disappointing that way they didn't [TS]

  have a good big bad and they try think [TS]

  they bit off more than they could chew [TS]

  with a bunch of the things that they [TS]

  want to explore i enjoyed watching parts [TS]

  and every episode but by the end of the [TS]

  season I was like okay let's regroup [TS]

  plus pullback whoever has been doing [TS]

  double time on legends of tomorrow and [TS]

  just give them one job and some to who [TS]

  it was a sophomore slump and I blame [TS]

  because i don't want to blame flash I [TS]

  blame that sucky show legend very good [TS]

  for screwing up a great show but who [TS]

  knows [TS]

  yeah I I early in the season I was [TS]

  willing to chalk it up to legends of [TS]

  tomorrow launching and that being a [TS]

  problem but now you almost have to say [TS]

  like did they was there a brain drain or [TS]

  something that distracted them my and [TS]

  I'm starting to think that's too that's [TS]

  too much of an excuse that for me to [TS]

  give to them that fact is a structural [TS]

  issues there hmm [TS]

  and we're pacing and a villain who to go [TS]

  back to Damien dark villain unlike [TS]

  Damien dark who it has no clear plan or [TS]

  even maybe he just doesn't make sense in [TS]

  fact they keep seeing kept him to change [TS]

  what he was up to [TS]

  he disappears for long he's very fast [TS]

  you can be anywhere immediately but he [TS]

  disappears for long stretches of time [TS]

  where he seems to not be around only [TS]

  because it's inconvenient for him to be [TS]

  around and there's never any explanation [TS]

  like I always I always said in our slack [TS]

  channel he he's gets very hungry he goes [TS]

  to buffalo wild wings he's watching [TS]

  sports on the TV [TS]

  it's like 80 plates wings and then he [TS]

  comes back he doesn't dine and dash of [TS]

  Buffalo one's the best explanation for [TS]

  zoom is buffalo wild wings and that is a [TS]

  problem is what i'm saying is also [TS]

  inconvenient when he's around like in [TS]

  that one episode where they have to make [TS]

  the formula to steal Barry speed to give [TS]

  to me to sit around watching do stuff [TS]

  I'm a scientist who will just watching [TS]

  science and about why i think that may [TS]

  be the most awkward scene it was a [TS]

  season where he was like i'm hanging out [TS]

  i'll tell you something that may be the [TS]

  same episode where he instructs his a [TS]

  one of his villains to attack to kill [TS]

  all the all the police jitters but don't [TS]

  do it now do it we'll do it tonight [TS]

  like why wait like what is there like [TS]

  Derek enforcement community centers [TS]

  where it's prime time you want the [TS]

  ratings in primetime so you always just [TS]

  there's so much about that that's just [TS]

  so everything about zoom which is [TS]

  battling an incomprehensible because the [TS]

  very beginning [TS]

  he's like yeah you're not a hero Barry [TS]

  Allen he breaks his back and it's all [TS]

  very dramatic and you're like oh this is [TS]

  a guy with a real hate on for moral [TS]

  codes but by like the last but by the [TS]

  finale and you have too many dads and [TS]

  I'm angry that you had a better [TS]

  childhood and you turned out better than [TS]

  I did and I'm going to kill your dad [TS]

  because that will make you even like [TS]

  wait what we turn them into a crazy [TS]

  serial killer maybe I want you to be [TS]

  evil or maybe I want to destroy the [TS]

  universe it's unclear maybe just want [TS]

  your skin maybe it's here [TS]

  so here's the thing i think too much [TS]

  stuff was put to service of the of the [TS]

  twist right like of the they worked [TS]

  really well in the first season where [TS]

  they had the sort of lurking dramatic [TS]

  irony of like and we all know that that [TS]

  that Harrison wells is evil and that [TS]

  slowly unfolded over the course of the [TS]

  season and that works really well and [TS]

  they felt like hey maybe like they want [TS]

  to sort of the M night Shyamalan area of [TS]

  like hey we need to twist and let's have [TS]

  like they talked about the fact that [TS]

  they like this is exactly what happened [TS]

  to him last year but that doesn't really [TS]

  observe them from trying to use the [TS]

  exact same plot beats and so I think too [TS]

  much was was made subservient to this [TS]

  idea of like we want to set up this jay [TS]

  garrick twist [TS]

  iid feel like this was an idea they had [TS]

  early on and then they just had to like [TS]

  shove a lot of stuff into weird places [TS]

  to make that what they thought make that [TS]

  work [TS]

  there's so many weird side tangent [TS]

  states they take that make any sense I [TS]

  think I kept waiting for there to be the [TS]

  scene where it's like where he takes [TS]

  Kayla and shows her the earth 111like [TS]

  read a book in the oh yeah and the part [TS]

  and that that never that never goes [TS]

  anywhere that never makes any sense that [TS]

  scene was just there so comic book [TS]

  readers would go oh ok so Jay Garrick is [TS]

  professor zoom then because that's 400 [TS]

  all of his professor zoom so you're [TS]

  tipping us off and that's just not fair [TS]

  it's not fair at all that they that they [TS]

  did that like there is no chance service [TS]

  well there's street justice and I [TS]

  there's only one guy that I know that [TS]

  does street justice right so let's just [TS]

  be honest it's daredevil but anyway the [TS]

  UH so what what I want to praise some [TS]

  things about the flash though because [TS]

  although i think they could totally do [TS]

  it on the on the ark in the villain what [TS]

  I think they did well is in the [TS]

  multiverse concept they did they had a [TS]

  lot of fun playing with doppelgangers I [TS]

  thought they did a really good job with [TS]

  doppelgangers I thought they did a [TS]

  fantastic creative job of giving Tom [TS]

  Cavanagh different Harrison wells to [TS]

  play he did a great job with the second [TS]

  hair cells so great-looking character [TS]

  from your thoughts MVP Tom Cavanagh hehe [TS]

  really owned in season one you had the [TS]

  evil Harrison wells who is friendly and [TS]

  four season do they have the mean [TS]

  Harrison wells who is good [TS]

  and as long as they can keep trotting [TS]

  tom cavanagh out i'm gonna be happy yeah [TS]

  like incision to he learns how to be a [TS]

  real boy in season 1 yards on is like I [TS]

  didn't want to actually like you people [TS]

  and that I I like Tom Cavanagh can play [TS]

  the heck out of those scenes so he can [TS]

  do is I really like Jesse Martin's work [TS]

  this season and I liked when they [TS]

  introduced the son he never knew he had [TS]

  and although the the street racing plot [TS]

  was really dumb like really dumb AI I [TS]

  think after all these weird weirdish [TS]

  introduction I like that things were [TS]

  awkward with him and bury it first i [TS]

  like how to become less so until by the [TS]

  end while he's like no we're part of the [TS]

  same family and I liked that a lot [TS]

  I still feel like irises is just nobody [TS]

  in the writers miss adopt you know I [TS]

  look it's so first I'll idea i watch the [TS]

  show every week with my girlfriend and [TS]

  she is incensed every weekend likes to [TS]

  point out every week the flaws in that [TS]

  and and and you know to give credit when [TS]

  they do occasionally do a good job she [TS]

  liked in particular I think the episode [TS]

  is the second time that he's lost his [TS]

  speed the one with the zombie girder [TS]

  yeah yeah like they actually that was [TS]

  like one of the better episodes this [TS]

  season I felt like and she felt that the [TS]

  they actually gave her you know agency [TS]

  and stuff to do in that episode also the [TS]

  episode her doppelganger in particular I [TS]

  feel like was a lot of fun so IE but [TS]

  overall both her and caitlin who is just [TS]

  you know Caitlin just perennial like her [TS]

  love interest is going to be evil / [TS]

  murdered his boyfriend is the drummer of [TS]

  spinal tap [TS]

  iris fundamentally she and Barry were [TS]

  raised as brother and sister she can't [TS]

  be the love interest that gross stop it [TS]

  the flash is supposed to be a happy for [TS]

  color cheerful world [TS]

  yeah i agree with hand do the hat and [TS]

  iris loses all of her her agency and [TS]

  other there's that terrible scene where [TS]

  she and Caitlin are talking and it is [TS]

  the anti back l test scene because all [TS]

  they're talking about is Barry they have [TS]

  all this other stuff going on [TS]

  and literally what iris is saying is [TS]

  well you know I've always sort of been [TS]

  vaguely interested in Barry but not but [TS]

  now that I've seen that in parallel [TS]

  universes and potential futures we're [TS]

  together I guess I should just give up [TS]

  and settle for bearing it's like it's [TS]

  like the word [TS]

  futurama episode it's awful like I hate [TS]

  that she's like well since somebody saw [TS]

  holographic newspaper where I had a [TS]

  different byline back from this parallel [TS]

  universe when told me that I'm married [TS]

  to Baron were apparently quite happy [TS]

  like I iris your reporter check the [TS]

  primary sources and just yeah she's such [TS]

  a great reporter that she dates her boss [TS]

  lady oh oh my god that was the worst [TS]

  then i will drop that is a little strong [TS]

  have to work this out it's awful because [TS]

  the boss is the one who is egregiously [TS]

  inappropriate like all the way down the [TS]

  line like he crosses the line at every [TS]

  opportunity [TS]

  oh I was unaware this is an actual [TS]

  legitimate professional conversation I [TS]

  thought that we were here so i could put [TS]

  the moves on you and as if that's not [TS]

  bad enough the end of the episode [TS]

  wouldn't mind if you made a pass at me [TS]

  with no yeah no yeah no it's not good [TS]

  what do you mean let me all right let me [TS]

  make this suggestion for season 3 what [TS]

  if we just somehow like what if this [TS]

  Irish mr. Lee goes mysteriously goes [TS]

  missing and we get earth to Iris over [TS]

  here and it's like okay look you saw a [TS]

  lot of problems she wasn't raised with [TS]

  Barry so they can be love interest [TS]

  except that she's gonna miss her husband [TS]

  Barry whatever here we can you tell [TS]

  stories based on the way back to his [TS]

  home wanna look like it's like the Black [TS]

  Canary play where the first black canary [TS]

  actually like in the widow danbury [TS]

  that's how she felt so here's one of the [TS]

  things that I think is interesting about [TS]

  about the flash and arrow arrow arrow is [TS]

  a show where they don't have any mentors [TS]

  right he always out there doing it [TS]

  himself [TS]

  chinese dude from the eye with Felicity [TS]

  and you have the island with Felicity [TS]

  and with a with Diggle he's got he's got [TS]

  a good support system who works with him [TS]

  on the flash it's different it's a [TS]

  different scenario he's got his dad's as [TS]

  lisa says my three dads science dead and [TS]

  police dad in prison dad who became [TS]

  released from prison log cabin and then [TS]

  dead dad [TS]

  rolling stone dead dad but that but so [TS]

  sad but I some and that part of the show [TS]

  I think works great right i mean we'd [TS]

  see Tom Cavanagh and jesse l martin [TS]

  again they're like the MVPs of that show [TS]

  I really anchor the grant gustin's Barry [TS]

  Allen it's really good [TS]

  the problem with the flash is that they [TS]

  have some issues with a lot of the [TS]

  supporting characters they've done some [TS]

  good rehab on cisco who got who got some [TS]

  five powers this year and that was [TS]

  really good but yea Kaitlyn and iris are [TS]

  our in trouble and it means that again [TS]

  yes what we've got is if I Jesse quick [TS]

  actually I thought was a more [TS]

  interesting and had a female character [TS]

  with depth then the two characters that [TS]

  we had for two seasons now which is [TS]

  painful [TS]

  so I don't know what they're gonna do [TS]

  next season i hope they get it i hope [TS]

  they get it back together because it [TS]

  when that show is fun and happy it is [TS]

  the best and I I don't know quite why [TS]

  they went so far off the ground what if [TS]

  so much me reset everything and start [TS]

  over [TS]

  hmm again love it Tony I love it I love [TS]

  that idea let's do that because remember [TS]

  everything you've been talking about [TS]

  especially Jason you have talked about [TS]

  everything that we liked about season [TS]

  one in fair the things that we loved [TS]

  about season one how would you feel [TS]

  about just watching a season that's all [TS]

  of season one but Barry doesn't have any [TS]

  powers [TS]

  I don't think I want to do that is you [TS]

  don't want to do it either but every [TS]

  scene is the same so it's just running [TS]

  at you i appreciate its just a [TS]

  procedural will jog a lot doesn't seem [TS]

  like maybe the part of the at the very [TS]

  end of this season was intended as like [TS]

  oh crap we just wrote herself into a [TS]

  terrible season let's just quick pull [TS]

  the ripcord that the one thing that [TS]

  makes the flash appealing to me is that [TS]

  they're willing to go for it like I felt [TS]

  like that in season one where they were [TS]

  like okay I don't know what we're [TS]

  supposed to do [TS]

  alright hit the big red button for [TS]

  alternate universes already but no hit [TS]

  boom go crazy for me that Cisco's role [TS]

  on the show is he's there to remind [TS]

  people this is a full-on comic book show [TS]

  we're going nuts as often as possible [TS]

  which is kind of way I still enjoy the [TS]

  flash more than arrow where it took them [TS]

  four season to say what we [TS]

  just call him green arrow right people [TS]

  after us [TS]

  there's a build all right let's uh let's [TS]

  move on from the Berlin diverse for a [TS]

  little while and go to some other real [TS]

  returning shows some shows that are not [TS]

  not not new in the past year [TS]

  let's check in before we before we leave [TS]

  the DC Comics world behind [TS]

  let's check in with Gotham on Fox [TS]

  hey I haven't I gave up on and season [TS]

  one I heard a lot of people say season [TS]

  two is better [TS]

  who out there is seen Gotham and would [TS]

  like to talk about Gotham i have a [TS]

  healthy relationship with all Batman [TS]

  properties [TS]

  hello Tony simple hi Tony hi I'm still [TS]

  watching off them I it's actually it's [TS]

  better I don't know why I stayed with it [TS]

  but I think they look up i'm glad to [TS]

  stop punishing before that [TS]

  yeah it's not as many shows in the next [TS]

  season [TS]

  some of the shows that it continues to [TS]

  be are actually covered wagon fun [TS]

  uh yeah and i think it may have found [TS]

  it's a it's group [TS]

  I'm i would i'm interested to see where [TS]

  it's going it's it it is not the crazy [TS]

  garbage file instead it is like it's a [TS]

  spectacular train wreck a train wreck is [TS]

  on Rails the first half of this season I [TS]

  thought was still not fantastic but [TS]

  sometimes they came back after like that [TS]

  midseason hiatus and I really felt like [TS]

  they had like.we we picked the lane [TS]

  basically like we've decided which of [TS]

  eight million different shows that we [TS]

  want to be [TS]

  we're going to focus on this thing [TS]

  everything was kind of related which [TS]

  actually really helped everything sort [TS]

  of focus around this idea of Arkham [TS]

  Asylum and Hugo Strange and that really [TS]

  unified a lot of storylines brought a [TS]

  lot of characters into contact to rather [TS]

  than having them all off in their [TS]

  different stories beauty wang as he's [TS]

  rangy on about a very dark he was [TS]

  fantastic yeah it's really good [TS]

  another good scenery-chewing I continue [TS]

  to enjoy Harvey Bullock i will always [TS]

  enjoy Donal Logue pretty much anything [TS]

  he does he's great he has i really [TS]

  enjoyed the AV club reviews of him just [TS]

  have every week eh nevermind the [TS]

  Bullock's section where they just have [TS]

  his wacky his quote of the week they [TS]

  really cut back on this season though [TS]

  didn't they yeah yeah a little sad but [TS]

  he's still around which is good [TS]

  and i enjoy i also enjoy Sean Pertwee is [TS]

  as Alfred I really and he's kind of an [TS]

  easy very different Alfred I think from [TS]

  the one that were used to and he's he's [TS]

  definitely fun to watch especially [TS]

  there's some episode we got into like a [TS]

  like a street fight with a guy named was [TS]

  eating my cupcake or something yes it [TS]

  was amazing that was a really great [TS]

  upset one thing that I have enjoyed [TS]

  about this season is that at [TS]

  in the first episode in the pilot [TS]

  episode of Gotham you saw the Riddler [TS]

  and he was introduced by saying [TS]

  essentially hi I'm Edward nigga [TS]

  riddle me this I enjoy your rental is [TS]

  going to turn into I liked him in season [TS]

  one that I thought he was overdoing it [TS]

  season one in season two I love that guy [TS]

  he is so great now there's a scene [TS]

  towards the end of the season where [TS]

  selina kyle is breaking into Arkham [TS]

  Asylum while he's trying to break out [TS]

  and they're both in the vents and they [TS]

  bump into each other and they don't [TS]

  really know each other so he's like your [TS]

  that cat burglar girl she's like your [TS]

  that police forensics guy do you know [TS]

  where you're going [TS]

  uh yeah over there okay well see ya and [TS]

  it's such a fun scene i enjoy when he [TS]

  gets caught red-handed trying to dig up [TS]

  a corpse in the woods [TS]

  yeah and it's just like I crap yep he's [TS]

  great [TS]

  penguin is great at this point I really [TS]

  enjoyed penguin penguin sidekick butch [TS]

  yes is really great like there's a lot [TS]

  of really fun villains on the show which [TS]

  is what you want what I want [TS]

  well in the the sort of guy I thought [TS]

  that the whole introduction of theo [TS]

  galavan in the first half of the season [TS]

  was kind of weak and then they basically [TS]

  like off him and then bring him back as [TS]

  as rail which is super weird but also [TS]

  kind of hilarious [TS]

  yeah well one thing that's great about [TS]

  Hugo Strange was he was bringing people [TS]

  back to life and he was brainwashing [TS]

  people and you realize he's actually [TS]

  pretty bad at this [TS]

  like he was brainwashing people to be to [TS]

  no longer be sociopaths and sending them [TS]

  out into the world and inside of two [TS]

  scenes they're like oh wait no I and I'm [TS]

  a sociopath nevermind science is not an [TS]

  exact science [TS]

  I think I've got weird and fun sometime [TS]

  during the second season I'm gonna have [TS]

  to go watch it now yeah I was also happy [TS]

  because i thought at the start of season [TS]

  two like oh it looks like they might do [TS]

  the court of owls and then it looks like [TS]

  they wouldn't and now it looks like they [TS]

  did it again so if you've read the [TS]

  comics that's extra excited i will say [TS]

  my least favorite part of the show is [TS]

  Bruce Wayne it partly some Batman's in [TS]

  it [TS]

  nobody young Bruce Wayne is like 13 show [TS]

  oh and the problem is that he keeps [TS]

  wanting to go to bat many things like [TS]

  I'm gonna go to live on the streets so i [TS]

  know what it's like out there like [TS]

  understand crime now it says well young [TS]

  master Bruce you work for [TS]

  I work for you so even though I'm your [TS]

  legal guardian I can't stop you boy [TS]

  well and I think that the fundamental [TS]

  problem this show as I think I mentioned [TS]

  last season is a if the show ends with [TS]

  Bruce Wayne becoming Batman then [TS]

  fundamentally nothing in this show has [TS]

  really mattered because if the whole [TS]

  point is like you know your focus they [TS]

  spend so much time focused on Jim Gordon [TS]

  and Jim Gordon's attempt to sort of like [TS]

  clean up the city when in fact it's [TS]

  really just about the downward spiral [TS]

  and corruption it was not he's not doing [TS]

  a great job [TS]

  no Jim Gordon has one of the weaker [TS]

  storylines this year and also liked his [TS]

  career doesn't make any sense [TS]

  well he doesn't have a career he's been [TS]

  in jail a couple of times and he just [TS]

  quit and left town also a baby [TS]

  it does make me a little concerned that [TS]

  by the time in the Gotham you universe [TS]

  when Bruce Wayne actually becomes Batman [TS]

  like all of his villains are like elder [TS]

  later their way to elderly to really be [TS]

  success maybe maybe Jim Gordon will [TS]

  become Batman for a while here I know [TS]

  that happened the comics reason Alex [TS]

  yeah that there's no need for Batman in [TS]

  this world this Riddler is not so subtle [TS]

  that they need a supergenius to solve [TS]

  what he's saying let's uh let's leave [TS]

  Gotham behind although I am intrigued by [TS]

  the fact that that it got better and [TS]

  talk about some of the Marvel properties [TS]

  agents of shield for its what is this [TS]

  the fourth season of asians you [TS]

  something like that feels right and then [TS]

  we'll we'll talk about season two basic [TS]

  agent Carter to so ages of shield [TS]

  yeah uh how was yet how how was it how [TS]

  was that iíve seen the first half of [TS]

  the season and I haven't seen the second [TS]

  half yet but you know don't worry about [TS]

  me but I'm just kind of curious how [TS]

  how do people think think it went and [TS]

  had some really good scenes [TS]

  overall it felt weird it's disappointing [TS]

  because kyle maclachlan was no longer on [TS]

  the show being awesome right [TS]

  but for instance they wrote the [TS]

  characters are hunter and Bobbi off the [TS]

  show because they thought they were [TS]

  going to get a spin-off spin-off we [TS]

  didn't get twice I think [TS]

  yeah but the scene where they've been [TS]

  disavowed and this time for real and no [TS]

  one can never talk to them again that [TS]

  episode ended with a really really good [TS]

  scene [TS]

  totally agree where they're turned Bobby [TS]

  ran a bar they look around they see [TS]

  every other member of the team and they [TS]

  all raised their glasses [TS]

  yeah it's it's funny because then if you [TS]

  decide because they didn't get a [TS]

  spin-off that they need to be back on [TS]

  the show walking that scene back really [TS]

  cheap and spit [TS]

  yeah just suck those tears baby i gave [TS]

  up on the show halfway through the [TS]

  season so I just say it does seem like [TS]

  it took them three and a half years to [TS]

  get to embrace the fact that [TS]

  super-powered people were were were part [TS]

  of the universe like this was the sort [TS]

  of like what we're saying that Gotham [TS]

  it's like hey you know what's great [TS]

  about the Marvel Cinematic Universe not [TS]

  the superhero part and uh but finally [TS]

  with with shield day they sort of [TS]

  embrace that with the Inhumans plot and [TS]

  having a sky / daisy you know have her [TS]

  wrists Daisy [TS]

  however I yeah I know but for those who [TS]

  gave up which is half of the people she [TS]

  used to be skyping another color Daisy [TS]

  because love character laundering she's [TS]

  got earthquake power i strongly believe [TS]

  that you call someone by the name they [TS]

  wish to be called her name is Stacy [TS]

  Johnson yes it is actually [TS]

  I that was actually an interesting plot [TS]

  line as some characters kept forgetting [TS]

  that you didn't matter at her [TS]

  yes and when she went to grant Ward who [TS]

  is now dead and possessed by an ancient [TS]

  evil alien inhuman that maybe the recent [TS]

  hydro was formed in the first place or [TS]

  possibly not that seems like a stretch [TS]

  that they pulled back he kept calling [TS]

  her sky and even though she was now [TS]

  brainwashed by him she kept correcting [TS]

  which I thought was really fun I i did [TS]

  like that episode and I know a lot of [TS]

  people praise that there was that [TS]

  episode that it focuses on the the on [TS]

  the alien planet where they wear [TS]

  yeah was it isn't Simmons is trapped in [TS]

  the alien planet with the astronaut and [TS]

  there's a monster and it was a nice [TS]

  change of the blue the blue planet the [TS]

  planet where there's never any Sun it's [TS]

  just blue light all the time i was at [TS]

  the soul [TS]

  yeah i was a really great yeah it's hard [TS]

  to mean obviously it's hard to pull off [TS]

  something like that every single week [TS]

  because it's you know specifically set [TS]

  up to like break the formula sure but it [TS]

  is really nice that they've shown the [TS]

  confidence to be able to do that I think [TS]

  some of the action scenes came up with [TS]

  this this year I think they did a nice [TS]

  job with some of those especially adding [TS]

  the powers into the mix there's a pretty [TS]

  good fight later on that involves the [TS]

  easy using her powers which is a pretty [TS]

  is really really well choreographed [TS]

  there's a couple nice twists and turns [TS]

  in terms of like sort of how they deal [TS]

  with the eventual villain problems and [TS]

  like managed to tie up like another plot [TS]

  line at the same time and I think that [TS]

  there's there's some solid character [TS]

  work here and there from i really like [TS]

  mac i know he is not the most popular [TS]

  characters but I really is not him he's [TS]

  great i know a lot of people who don't [TS]

  like him but I i really enjoy him [TS]

  especially was right yeah it's ongoing [TS]

  quest for a shotgun x which he got in [TS]

  the final episode that looks grote he [TS]

  gets one earlier on that he's just like [TS]

  tapes and ax ya shotgun is pretty great [TS]

  too [TS]

  that was really that like you should [TS]

  really liked that episode with him and [TS]

  his brother I thought that was a good [TS]

  episode [TS]

  yeah I'm so there's some really solid [TS]

  character kits it's an uneven show in [TS]

  some ways and it doesn't quite hit the [TS]

  the lows or the highs that's a Gotham [TS]

  hits like atoms like wildly uneven and [TS]

  agent agent of shield I think waivers a [TS]

  little more like a little less from that [TS]

  center line right like it's it's may not [TS]

  be quite as good but it's also [TS]

  definitely not quite as like terrible [TS]

  and its first moments see and Dan [TS]

  I've caught you know what you said is [TS]

  perfect is the unevenness and I've said [TS]

  this before have caught heat for it [TS]

  which is that Marvel agents of shield [TS]

  which is a weird name but is essentially [TS]

  a kind of a carry through or a you know [TS]

  a little bit of a booster for any Marvel [TS]

  main movie like for example this season [TS]

  was Civil War right which doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't good like find itself is [TS]

  beholding as much as it did say first [TS]

  season with winter soldier where was [TS]

  like really show it just like tank its [TS]

  first half because it felt like it had [TS]

  to be there for that twist and twist was [TS]

  awesome but the show before that was [TS]

  very mediocre and it doesn't it hasn't [TS]

  hit quite as much to that in the [TS]

  subsequent seasons I think they realize [TS]

  that's problematic but the other problem [TS]

  is as the even the lead i believe Chloe [TS]

  Bennet said recently like doesn't seem [TS]

  like the movies care at all about what [TS]

  happens on the shows and that's it's [TS]

  definitely uncomfortable when you feel [TS]

  like why did you make this such a big [TS]

  part of your whole I transmedia property [TS]

  if you're not going to make it matter at [TS]

  all [TS]

  yeah that was a huge problem for me [TS]

  because in civil war there's a lot of [TS]

  talk danger i want to talk about a giant [TS]

  movie there's a lot of talks among the [TS]

  bad things that superheroes do and [TS]

  nobody mentions the word in human which [TS]

  is weird because according to the [TS]

  television show in humans are the most [TS]

  important thing anybody talks about and [TS]

  the president of the united states is [TS]

  constantly giving press conference to [TS]

  talk about the inhuman problem [TS]

  yeah oh yeah the movies don't mention [TS]

  anything that happens on the TV show in [TS]

  practical terms because the movies and [TS]

  TV shows are now being operated by [TS]

  different groups essentially the Marvel [TS]

  TV shows have sheared off from the [TS]

  Marvel movies and they're not even in [TS]

  the same universe anymore and joss [TS]

  whedon said with age of Ultron that uh [TS]

  as far as he was concerned you know that [TS]

  that Coulson was dead in age of Ultron [TS]

  yeah well except that every time a movie [TS]

  comes out they have to spend half of the [TS]

  next eight next episode of agents of [TS]

  shield talking about the milk [TS]

  yeah so they keep kept turning to each [TS]

  other and saying how about that sakova [TS]

  an accord huh i know right and the [TS]

  netflix unity netflix series for [TS]

  whatever you know you basically get to [TS]

  do their own thing completely which is I [TS]

  think fine like you know because the [TS]

  Netflix series have done a good job of [TS]

  remaining like they're very [TS]

  geographically limited and so you feel [TS]

  like maybe the stuff there doesn't [TS]

  doesn't make the headlines as much [TS]

  worldwide necessarily yeah well that the [TS]

  Netflix shows have the sense to stay [TS]

  restrained in their power level that [TS]

  yeah it right there Monty and that's [TS]

  what I meant by arrow punching above its [TS]

  weight [TS]

  yeah most of the Netflix series stay [TS]

  within their presence of specific [TS]

  atmosphere [TS]

  yeah yeah I agree so let's try my agent [TS]

  Carter season 2 and final of agent [TS]

  Carter i but what people think of of [TS]

  this one I love the show [TS]

  yes seconded third fourth i lost count [TS]

  the motion carries okay shouldn't have [TS]

  gotten caso resolved it is by the [TS]

  uncomfortable that the agent Carter is [TS]

  good and thus cancelled [TS]

  to be fair it does require expensive [TS]

  vintage cars and cool out short out have [TS]

  to do a period TV show [TS]

  yeah which is fantastic by the way exist [TS]

  for a reason you can get all sorts of [TS]

  vintage crap for cheap on the internet [TS]

  like Marvel's agents of etsy would [TS]

  totally watch that show [TS]

  actually it's the best-looking TV show [TS]

  out there you know those people who make [TS]

  those those tactical uniforms that [TS]

  they're running around every week on [TS]

  agents of shield they totally have some [TS]

  mad craft skills they're probably [TS]

  secretly funding the organization [TS]

  through an etsy shop the agent Carter [TS]

  ratings weren't very good and I I [TS]

  totally get that although I i do wonder [TS]

  if this wouldn't have been a better [TS]

  netflix kind of show given the short run [TS]

  and the fact that it's a period piece [TS]

  and all of those things and I get why [TS]

  not everybody's gonna want to watch a [TS]

  period piece about a about a secret [TS]

  agent in the Marvel Universe but oh well [TS]

  I think it should have been a Netflix [TS]

  show i think that would have been great [TS]

  i think they did a lot of things right [TS]

  the season I thought the transplant to [TS]

  LA was a lot of fun [TS]

  it definitely like you know added some [TS]

  pep to the show there were some like [TS]

  conspiracy stuff going on Hayley Atwell [TS]

  is fantastic i really enjoyed James [TS]

  D'Arcy as well as [TS]

  Edmund Jarvis I liked his wife they had [TS]

  a lot of great supporting character [TS]

  named Whitney Frost was a fun villain [TS]

  like Howard Stark is awesome I really do [TS]

  enjoy him yeah he acquired by Howard [TS]

  Stark is gone now he's off somewhere [TS]

  else doing another comic book show [TS]

  yeah but they I mean there are a lot of [TS]

  great ingredients here I'm kind of one [TS]

  of those shows there are a lot of shows [TS]

  i watch and I'm like okay I can see why [TS]

  maybe that didn't catch on [TS]

  I'm kind of baffled by this one I think [TS]

  you know and Jason's reasons are as good [TS]

  as any for why that's the case but it [TS]

  does just seemed like this was far and [TS]

  away the best comic book show on [TS]

  broadcast when you told me the show got [TS]

  canceled and that Gotham was like the [TS]

  one of the more popular shows on the [TS]

  channel of him [TS]

  I thought you were like like this like [TS]

  this is a trick I'm being set up for [TS]

  some kind of all that time turning 40 [TS]

  troll I what what is wrong with the [TS]

  world people look I believe that isn't [TS]

  it does not does not compute [TS]

  i will briefly say that I have finally [TS]

  forgiven the show for having a waitress [TS]

  who worked at an automat she I like that [TS]

  you they do a nice job of that one [TS]

  episode she's in a dream sequence yeah I [TS]

  actually really enjoyed that with the [TS]

  singing and the dancing it was fun like [TS]

  yeah the show was good i enjoyed the [TS]

  brief appearances of Dottie Underwood i [TS]

  love Dottie Underwood be so everytime up [TS]

  with her and having her still be County [TS]

  evil yeah great [TS]

  I just shows where is the green that's [TS]

  the fight choreography on agent Carter [TS]

  is the best fight choreography I'm say [TS]

  of the broadcast comic Claire you're [TS]

  always been asked i would agree with [TS]

  there you go there you go there you go [TS]

  they used to fight styles of each [TS]

  character to convey who they were when [TS]

  you had Peggy Carter fighting she's [TS]

  straightforward punches you in the face [TS]

  to grab something heavy she whacks you [TS]

  with it but then when she's facing daddy [TS]

  who was trained by the Black Widow [TS]

  school like the Tosh Romanov in the [TS]

  Avengers she's doing all sorts of weird [TS]

  flips and running up walls and stuff and [TS]

  I really like that thought was put into [TS]

  not just how do we make this fight look [TS]

  cool but how would each of these [TS]

  characters fight and we got like a [TS]

  Daniel [TS]

  got his last name now you know who's got [TS]

  like a cane and so has to let hit people [TS]

  with the cane [TS]

  I don't know yeah they do a really good [TS]

  job of tailoring all those scenes i [TS]

  really enjoyed the the episode where [TS]

  they have to break into the lab where [TS]

  the bomb is and they had they recruit [TS]

  sort of the terrible misfit like group [TS]

  of people because i can't tell anybody [TS]

  and so they've got like this the Science [TS]

  Guy and the secretary from the lakefront [TS]

  yeah when you mentioned fighting styles [TS]

  actually something that came to mind [TS]

  which is Marvel's daredevil which had [TS]

  season two on netflix which I think [TS]

  similarly did a good job at having sort [TS]

  of different fighting styles for [TS]

  different different characters also [TS]

  there were lots of ninjas boy [TS]

  yeah and-and-and some you know I i wear [TS]

  down now the TV podcast about daredevil [TS]

  is still going on so I don't want to [TS]

  give away any spoilers about how [TS]

  everything is going to feel about let's [TS]

  do it let's go ahead and spoil some [TS]

  things because you know Jason that you [TS]

  and I were going to talk about this [TS]

  yep we still are we're gonna it's gonna [TS]

  happen right we're gonna talk about you [TS]

  know daredevil I'm gonna say you know [TS]

  above most people i'm a big fan boy to [TS]

  daredevil so in my mind he can't do any [TS]

  wrong however this is season it's like [TS]

  I've been kind of shot through the heart [TS]

  to x by the punisher yeah that the [TS]

  punisher was probably one of the coolest [TS]

  things in this one which is so weird [TS]

  this and that's the sign over there like [TS]

  all the punisher is cool and he's right [TS]

  I agree yeah I agree [TS]

  the pleasure was handled with great care [TS]

  I thought and was way better than I [TS]

  thought because you you and I talked [TS]

  about how I i was i was really down on [TS]

  the idea of you know putting the [TS]

  punisher in here to me right is like the [TS]

  worst of nineties comics where it's like [TS]

  the celebration of nihilism and instead [TS]

  the way Jon Bernthal portrayed him the [TS]

  way that they wrote him he is exactly [TS]

  the punisher supposed to be which is a [TS]

  completely messed up guy who is not a [TS]

  not even really an antihero he is a [TS]

  villain but he sort of like trapped in [TS]

  his own villainy because of the terrible [TS]

  things that have happened to him and I [TS]

  thought they did a great job with that [TS]

  care and they didn't disguise it [TS]

  the adjacent you and I talked about this [TS]

  in person too and I think we came to [TS]

  consensus that magic and ninjas were [TS]

  kind of it [TS]

  nice boy though but the punisher I like [TS]

  that a lot [TS]

  I liked watching the law firm fall apart [TS]

  this year and i liked watching strong [TS]

  meaningful well it was it was a great [TS]

  break up though because you can see both [TS]

  sides of it i enjoyed how many people [TS]

  repeatedly called Matt Murdock out on [TS]

  his own his nonsense like Claire temple [TS]

  every single vs matt if you weren't such [TS]

  an idiot like I know and then he go into [TS]

  something dumb and I enjoyed i enjoyed [TS]

  froggies arc as little as they gave that [TS]

  character to do you know the stuff that [TS]

  he did was great especially his [TS]

  grappling with with you know the fact [TS]

  that Matt is kind of a Bacchus visual on [TS]

  take yeah I'm the only thing that [TS]

  doesn't ring true to me as Karen pages [TS]

  are over the course of the the season [TS]

  but I like that she was kind of quietly [TS]

  grappling with you know having shot [TS]

  somebody from season one all on her own [TS]

  right and i like that no matter what she [TS]

  does she's just fixated on making sure [TS]

  that the truth gets out there because in [TS]

  her mind the truth is what sets people [TS]

  free and it shall fight for that I'm [TS]

  sure we a lot of us being you know [TS]

  having worked in the journalism industry [TS]

  have some complaints about some of that [TS]

  arc over although I agree that the [TS]

  giving her something to do is good [TS]

  like that's something that's not just [TS]

  revolving around being a love interest I [TS]

  think that's I think that the diagram [TS]

  walls a good actress and I know that she [TS]

  gave her a lot of stuff to do in this [TS]

  season which is great but yeah it's [TS]

  tricky trying to navigate that because [TS]

  you have fundamentally a character who [TS]

  you've already explained is like well [TS]

  they're not really you know they're not [TS]

  qualified to be a lawyer [TS]

  maybe they could be a journalist and [TS]

  then like narrow definition of [TS]

  journalism that we have here [TS]

  ok but like he's a little weird but I I [TS]

  thought they handle it well i will also [TS]

  put a plug in because i really enjoy [TS]

  Scott Glenn as stick even though he's a [TS]

  triangle and utter asked you to daryl is [TS]

  terrible but I love him so much i see i [TS]

  think they I think they misused that [TS]

  character this year i like them last [TS]

  year this year i kinda i kinda I like [TS]

  the actor and i like i like his [TS]

  portrayal but I thought that they that [TS]

  he got dragged down in this whole morale [TS]

  massive like magic black star or [TS]

  whatever Black Sun fate ninja a big you [TS]

  know pit stealing blood from people [TS]

  making zombie ninjas and stuff like that [TS]

  which I i get that comes a lot of stuff [TS]

  is just must remind from the frank [TS]

  miller era of daredevil but uh I don't [TS]

  totally get especially given what we got [TS]

  last season which was really about you [TS]

  know the kingpin and it was about a [TS]

  criminal organization trying to trying [TS]

  to setup and and and Matt fighting them [TS]

  that this season 2 takes this turn with [TS]

  when electric comes on screen and you [TS]

  end up well for some good ninja fights i [TS]

  thought some of that I thought the the [TS]

  seat the fight where the ninjas surround [TS]

  the hospital was there was a pretty [TS]

  great sequence but magic ninjas endless [TS]

  supplies of magic ninjas is to me not [TS]

  with daredevil wasn't like it wasn't [TS]

  listed in the ingredients on the side of [TS]

  the box and I totally rejected it I just [TS]

  basically was like this is nonsense and [TS]

  even though i would totally accept [TS]

  zombie ninjas and a magic pit and some [TS]

  sort of chosen one that is happening in [TS]

  smay be some other show that sort of [TS]

  like set up that that's what it was [TS]

  about what if we were to call it like [TS]

  iron fist for example exactly exactly [TS]

  put in daredevil I'm like no no you [TS]

  don't get to do this you don't get to to [TS]

  just sort of sweep this out from under [TS]

  me and also like taking the punisher [TS]

  story and then and then just kind of [TS]

  pivoting into this I that that's the [TS]

  part that just I found really [TS]

  unfortunate i liked when the punisher [TS]

  went to prison and talk to talk to the [TS]

  kingpin and broke out of prison I [TS]

  thought that was all actually pretty [TS]

  awesome and when not really great to see [TS]

  Vincent D'Onofrio I thought that was [TS]

  really great but overlaying that last [TS]

  half of the season he got these magic [TS]

  ninjas and I just don't know I just [TS]

  don't have so many of them too many [TS]

  night of a million billion in July no I [TS]

  mean the tick was making fun of those [TS]

  comics 30 years ago and here it is they [TS]

  still did they still did it [TS]

  yes Stuart wellington in the Medusa [TS]

  configuration often cites you know you [TS]

  can have one ninja that's super powerful [TS]

  but as you add ninjas they get less [TS]

  power there's an equation you can do [TS]

  that it all it all works out that it's [TS]

  just ultimately when you [TS]

  500 ninjas those days the law of [TS]

  diminishing ninja return one thing i [TS]

  like about the zombie ninjas is it does [TS]

  explain why they're so bad and so easy [TS]

  to kill ya [TS]

  is that they're not there admit there's [TS]

  armies and their mother tricky format [TS]

  because he can't hear them [TS]

  yeah yes I've always been a huge fan of [TS]

  the hundred ninja to run into a scene [TS]

  after you just saw your 99 best pals get [TS]

  beat up by the hero the last guy who was [TS]

  like but I'm gonna get them i got they [TS]

  say they've softened him up for me also [TS]

  i like the ninjas fighting style because [TS]

  it's not a it's not honorable in some [TS]

  way to like everybody ganging up on the [TS]

  hero at once and kill him they wait and [TS]

  let like those guys got it I'll just [TS]

  stand back here and wait [TS]

  oh now they're all dead I guess it's my [TS]

  turn instead of just warming him and [TS]

  killing him which is also just trying a [TS]

  good job and just way to go [TS]

  yeah yeah it's really hard to fight as a [TS]

  group effectively but they're ninjas and [TS]

  should be good at that [TS]

  so what I'm saying season to appear [TS]

  devil not as good as season one that's [TS]

  my review that's right i'm not i'm not [TS]

  as negative on ninjas as Jason is but i [TS]

  agree that there [TS]

  yeah it does feel it was very bifurcated [TS]

  because the punisher stuff was so good [TS]

  and the ninja stuff was less good i [TS]

  actually thought the actress who played [TS]

  elector was pretty good i didn't think I [TS]

  think they had some problems with the [TS]

  stuff they wrote for her she's murder [TS]

  Pixie dream girl yeah I thought you died [TS]

  again I think the portrayal of her as [TS]

  opposed to the stuff that was written [TS]

  for her vs I thought the actress was [TS]

  very competent and did some great stone [TS]

  work I thought she was believable in [TS]

  what they refer I don't necessarily [TS]

  agree with the way that they took her [TS]

  character but you know that's that's [TS]

  another issue i liked how she vexes mad [TS]

  at the beginning when she comes back i [TS]

  think that was actually harkening back [TS]

  to some of the best stuff in season one [TS]

  where Matt is really challenged about [TS]

  are you gonna do this who are you going [TS]

  to be and and now he decides he's gonna [TS]

  be and she comes in and sort of upsets [TS]

  all of that I thought that initial [TS]

  interaction between them was really good [TS]

  but very rapidly becomes clear that [TS]

  she's just kind of a crazy person who's [TS]

  going to do crazy things [TS]

  she's the crazy ex-girlfriend if you [TS]

  will if only there were more musical [TS]

  numbers and it's not it's not good [TS]

  one of the things if there's a complaint [TS]

  to have about the the women on the show [TS]

  here i am making a woman cum [TS]

  is that there was just such a good girl [TS]

  bad girl thing going on between electra [TS]

  as though she's bad and she said she [TS]

  brings out Matt baser impulses and she [TS]

  disregards his morality and she pushes [TS]

  him to more and more extremes and [TS]

  encourages them to disregard society and [TS]

  then on the other side of that you've [TS]

  got others this beautiful blonde woman [TS]

  that I work with and I'm dating her and [TS]

  I don't want to have scrapped because [TS]

  this is the most beautiful pure thing in [TS]

  my life and partners a girl come on you [TS]

  know you don't need that the dichotomy [TS]

  doesn't have to be that sharp and clear [TS]

  temple navigated the beautiful and I [TS]

  understand what i don't understand why [TS]

  it had to be such a stark contrast like [TS]

  why electra wasn't allowed more grace [TS]

  and developments a person you know like [TS]

  early days would stick notwithstanding [TS]

  she seemed pretty stocking caricaturist [TS]

  to me also awesome and you know I I [TS]

  didn't I i get what she was supposed to [TS]

  do because she exists to propel Matt [TS]

  story forward and have him sever the [TS]

  ties to the street life he had set up [TS]

  with the law firm and have him you know [TS]

  decide well since work involves a mom I [TS]

  on this one and all that [TS]

  um I get she was supposed to push him to [TS]

  the next plateau and then season three [TS]

  is going to be presumably him figure out [TS]

  that's not working out so well for him [TS]

  but we don't get much of a sense of her [TS]

  as a person beyond that and and she and [TS]

  she's basically everything i do i'm [TS]

  doing because i have these feelings for [TS]

  you and I want you to feel this way and [TS]

  it's all for you Matthew and you just [TS]

  like really you're beautiful you're rich [TS]

  you're well connected and you literally [TS]

  have nothing better to do than to [TS]

  construct your entire inner life around [TS]

  your ex-boyfriend two more minutes is [TS]

  that what women do [TS]

  ok and nights what I don't know is [TS]

  elevated your life seems like it I can I [TS]

  give a quick thumbs up to my favorite [TS]

  supporting player of the season who was [TS]

  the Melvin Potter began their Devils [TS]

  armor [TS]

  I just really enjoy him hes bizarre [TS]

  character but I like him they reboot his [TS]

  armor was great i like Madame gal I [TS]

  cheered when Madame gal came back [TS]

  oh she said she's fun too I like her I [TS]

  loved all four scenes in season one I [TS]

  love to c 0 [TS]

  have a question about daredevil not [TS]

  having watched this season or to be [TS]

  honest these last half of the first [TS]

  season [TS]

  shame on you I have a lot to do i [TS]

  understand there are some problems with [TS]

  the journalism in this show [TS]

  yes how does it rank compared to the [TS]

  journalism on flash and Supergirl it is [TS]

  more realistic than either of those i [TS]

  would say yeah i was gonna agree with [TS]

  that exception of the fact that you [TS]

  don't get an office like your first day [TS]

  on the job [TS]

  ya know well it's not it's not she [TS]

  doesn't get an office she gets been [TS]

  eurex old office that is still sort of [TS]

  the the shrine to the murdered [TS]

  oh sorry spoilers for season one there [TS]

  there don't want some girls they would [TS]

  have had a shrine for 15 minutes and [TS]

  then like three top industry moved in [TS]

  there so they could talk smack about [TS]

  people's grammar they don't have the [TS]

  money in journalism to leave in office [TS]

  empty as a shrine that is not a thing [TS]

  that anyone is doing its basically [TS]

  closet but anyway I but it's still more [TS]

  realistic than either Supergirl or grief [TS]

  or arrow so let's talk about or flash so [TS]

  let's talk about Supergirl then we're [TS]

  going to move on to some new shows here [TS]

  at the end [TS]

  Supergirl on the sauna on CBS but and [TS]

  everybody said hey that's weird why [TS]

  would that be MCW and then at the end of [TS]

  the season CBS said hey that's weird why [TS]

  doesn't it go to the CW and so it will [TS]

  be on the CW this fall [TS]

  dear greg berlanti we've noticed that [TS]

  she's not solving a murder every single [TS]

  episode please fix or we're sending you [TS]

  to the CW love CBS yep that's pretty [TS]

  much it so super girlfriend seems weird [TS]

  fantasy VII don't know i think they [TS]

  wanted to try it and just see what would [TS]

  happen and the fact is it got better [TS]

  ratings than any show on the CW and it [TS]

  it will be interesting to see how its [TS]

  ratings hold up [TS]

  it may have been a brilliant way to [TS]

  launch CW show put it put it on CBS for [TS]

  a year and then make the audience finds [TS]

  on the other network [TS]

  I don't know is that true it got better [TS]

  it got better rating as supergirls [TS]

  ratings and numerically our heart were [TS]

  low for CBS but they were higher than [TS]

  any individual show on the CW CW is not [TS]

  a very popular network yeah it's crazy [TS]

  but the big three networks still matter [TS]

  somehow yeah [TS]

  there are people who are not watching [TS]

  superhero stuff how's that possible i [TS]

  know it is well now CW's got a god they [TS]

  may have changed into the superhero [TS]

  channel because they're gonna have a [TS]

  superhero stuff on it and basically [TS]

  every night of the week when people [TS]

  think of a of Supergirl I'm i will give [TS]

  I'll give up my thumbnail sketch which [TS]

  is I felt like it took a while for it to [TS]

  find its way but it still had a sunny [TS]

  innocent fun quality throughout that the [TS]

  flash had in season one that I really [TS]

  like I don't care it i don't think it [TS]

  emerges fully formed as the flash I [TS]

  think it really struggled to figure out [TS]

  what I wanted to be they made they [TS]

  introduced a whole bunch of stuff in the [TS]

  pilot that they spent the entire first [TS]

  year walking back and figuring out how [TS]

  to break so that they could go somewhere [TS]

  else but i think the last half of it for [TS]

  me it really started to shape up and [TS]

  they started to figure out what the what [TS]

  the show wanted to be in it and it ended [TS]

  a lot stronger than it started [TS]

  that's my can i say i did have my my [TS]

  fanboy freakout came when they act like [TS]

  they actually were like oh my god you're [TS]

  actually going to make this hand cannon [TS]

  shot character jon jones yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  mr. and I was like oh my god you're [TS]

  actually going to do this this is [TS]

  amazing i was one of the things they [TS]

  walk back right now because you're [TS]

  supposed to be a villain and they just [TS]

  changed it and they're like this isn't [TS]

  work they like to I think they like [TS]

  David Harewood to good actor totally [TS]

  boring character in a total who works in [TS]

  a totally boring place the government's [TS]

  the de 0 which is the most boring thing [TS]

  and and they like they spent the whole [TS]

  season like extracting characters from [TS]

  the stupid do because it was dumb and [TS]

  that should never have done it and they [TS]

  saved that actor from playing that [TS]

  stupid character and said how about you [TS]

  be the Martian Manhunter instead [TS]

  alright yeah let's do that was also [TS]

  smart move because it gives way to [TS]

  connect to Cara and the way to connect [TS]

  to Alex [TS]

  to Alex [TS]

  cuz he and Alex happy analysis of the [TS]

  professional relationship Jacqueline and [TS]

  then the deeper ties because he's [TS]

  responsible for this is watching out [TS]

  from but here in cars are are basically [TS]

  you know refugees in the strange world [TS]

  and they they have a peer-to-peer [TS]

  relationship that Alex is never going to [TS]

  have and I enjoy that differentiation [TS]

  comes out on screen and it allows for [TS]

  two different types of relationships to [TS]

  happen even when there's three people [TS]

  around I'd say he's all he's almost like [TS]

  a mentor to both of them to which which [TS]

  gives you that flash mentor feel a [TS]

  little bit and and more than that like [TS]

  he's a mentor in a way that they sort of [TS]

  sub him in for a lot of places where [TS]

  they I guess they could sort of head [TS]

  Superman but they didn't really didn't [TS]

  want to do Superman in the first side [TS]

  and so they have him filling that role [TS]

  in a lot of places like hey I'm a [TS]

  powered guy who's been around the block [TS]

  a little bit and like I can sort of you [TS]

  know helped lead you and i'm down this [TS]

  path or whatever but I'm not Superman so [TS]

  you don't have to like there's not like [TS]

  so much of a shadow cast their right but [TS]

  yeah I like that I guess a in apparently [TS]

  this is where all the writing team [TS]

  female characters went to because the [TS]

  show meet with good female character yes [TS]

  oh my god i love cat Grants so much and [TS]

  every time some people's out of her [TS]

  mouth [TS]

  I'm just clapping my hands into like it [TS]

  could have been so bad and it's not like [TS]

  like the writing is good Calista [TS]

  Flockhart is great it's a great [TS]

  character [TS]

  well I feel like she's been waiting her [TS]

  whole career to be old enough to play [TS]

  this side of the character [TS]

  yeah which is the best part about it and [TS]

  and it it started weird it started weird [TS]

  and I wasn't totally convinced and then [TS]

  I watched it with my daughters and I [TS]

  realized this show has legs and should [TS]

  be a top-tier show [TS]

  yeah yeah i agree they made a lot of [TS]

  good course corrections the flash [TS]

  crossover episode was delightful goofy [TS]

  and fun like a basket of adorable [TS]

  puppies it's so great hills it was just [TS]

  like it was like this is the superhero [TS]

  team-up that I wanted to see like screw [TS]

  that Batman since you can i tell you i [TS]

  save that episode of my tivo it's still [TS]

  on my tivo and I just I just watch it [TS]

  sometimes when I'm feeling down because [TS]

  it is just a right [TS]

  of sunshine that episode let's in the [TS]

  flash to other shows he's worked great [TS]

  on the cross races done so far yeah I I [TS]

  just you know when what what do we use [TS]

  our superpowers for the answer is to get [TS]

  ice cream [TS]

  fantastic just yeah just super speed i [TS]

  can get the ice cream back and won't [TS]

  even be melted all right let's do that [TS]

  just just amazing so I Superman came up [TS]

  and i wanted to i want to mention i [TS]

  actually think Superman was one of the [TS]

  great problems of Supergirl this year [TS]

  because they didn't want to do the show [TS]

  and not talk about Superman because the [TS]

  premise of Supergirl is that she's his [TS]

  cousin and all that so they talk about [TS]

  him and they show him like in silhouette [TS]

  and there's like a cgi Superman at one [TS]

  point and there's a blur of a Superman a [TS]

  lot of long i am instant messaging lot [TS]

  instant messaging a lot of texts with [TS]

  Clark right which I I felt like the show [TS]

  got better again better as they went [TS]

  along at first I felt was like almost [TS]

  almost like we talked about the bechdel [TS]

  test and you know women women but [TS]

  they're not talking about themselves are [TS]

  talking about men [TS]

  I almost felt like Supergirl started out [TS]

  as failing that own a test about herself [TS]

  like it was all about Superman is like [TS]

  guys it is not his show [TS]

  stop talking about your cousin and they [TS]

  got better at it and I think they did a [TS]

  pretty good job but it was just really [TS]

  weird that he that he was kind of [TS]

  hovering over them for so much like they [TS]

  had to explain why he wasn't involved [TS]

  I don't know what to take the the rumor [TS]

  is or the the news is that they are [TS]

  going to do they're gonna cast somebody [TS]

  and have Superman at least as a [TS]

  recurring character in season two [TS]

  Supergirl I don't know I disagree I [TS]

  disagree i don't know i think I I feel [TS]

  like that would be better than the limbo [TS]

  state where you where he's there but not [TS]

  there i think you almost need to just [TS]

  have don't mention Superman or he needs [TS]

  to show up but you can't have it be like [TS]

  what I wasn't easy excuse of it like in [TS]

  the finale where it looks super man he's [TS]

  finally coming to help us [TS]

  oh wait he's been brainwashed with [TS]

  everybody else was terrible [TS]

  that was yes that was a very clear like [TS]

  okay we need to have this acknowledge [TS]

  and yet we also need to take him off the [TS]

  board because otherwise he'll just fix [TS]

  everything and and that's a problem and [TS]

  I i agree with Jason wholeheartedly [TS]

  there so i think the the answer is um [TS]

  show up for a couple episodes at the [TS]

  beginning of next season then he needs [TS]

  to go deal with some stuff like offworld [TS]

  is likely not going to [TS]

  space q I go to space car I trust you [TS]

  take care of stuff while I'm gone and [TS]

  i'll be back at some point and maybe [TS]

  even pop in later in the season to be [TS]

  like everything cool here great and go [TS]

  back to space or we could have Cara [TS]

  accidentally fall through a wormhole and [TS]

  end up in the arrow purse yeah where the [TS]

  cameraman my oh my gosh yes the whole [TS]

  building trails through yeah we need cat [TS]

  as well to definitely yeah sure maybe a [TS]

  bit me [TS]

  or maybe this will be like some mando [TS]

  crossover where it turns out that [TS]

  Barry's erasing his own timeline river [TS]

  breaks up and down different earths and [TS]

  care all of a sudden they get knocked in [TS]

  20 think these are submerged been [TS]

  basically there's no topple gaggers like [TS]

  there are other circuits I don't miss [TS]

  that always advocate the whole shipper [TS]

  perspective but let me put it this way [TS]

  if Cara and Barry just ended up the [TS]

  instead of Karen are a berry entirety I [TS]

  feel like we'd all be okay with that i [TS]

  am well that's that's like Felicity [TS]

  level of chemistry to wear like oh these [TS]

  two actors were both actually both were [TS]

  even shared scenes together on Glee [TS]

  Grant Gustin and most of the noise day [TS]

  they they they been on TV together [TS]

  before and boy they really do have a [TS]

  great connection that they don't have [TS]

  with other people on their shows let's [TS]

  put it that way so i would like to [TS]

  briefly distance myself from my own my [TS]

  own idea okay I don't think Supergirl [TS]

  works if Superman isn't in the universe [TS]

  degree bigger I want her to be trying to [TS]

  live up to and I'll attainable ID he [TS]

  just needs to either be way further in [TS]

  the background or they need to move into [TS]

  the foreground enough to explain them [TS]

  away and i hope that they do next season [TS]

  is is like he is because before it was [TS]

  like well we don't have understood the [TS]

  way I understand is they cut the [TS]

  candidate him permission to use Superman [TS]

  and so they could talk about them but [TS]

  they but they couldn't cast a person as [TS]

  him and apparently something happened [TS]

  maybe Batman vs Superman I don't know [TS]

  when they're like yeah that's fine your [TS]

  that's a totally different world just [TS]

  you know yeah if you wanna have Superman [TS]

  is a recurring go ahead because it's [TS]

  tough to live up to him it's tough to [TS]

  live up to him when we have no idea like [TS]

  this show is predicated on the idea that [TS]

  we all know who Superman is right like [TS]

  and it's tough to to get an idea when [TS]

  you're like I don't know which version [TS]

  like yeah who is this person she's [TS]

  trying to live up to it is it is it the [TS]

  community action comics version is [TS]

  Henry Cavill is it Brandon route is it [TS]

  Christopher Reeve like there's lots of [TS]

  different versions sort of wish it would [TS]

  be brand around people just keep looking [TS]

  at present I was like it's a lot like [TS]

  someone else we did not agree well I [TS]

  know if I can be hilarious [TS]

  oh yeah I would I would I would go for [TS]

  that or you know they're there are a [TS]

  bunch of good actors that they could [TS]

  cast a Superman that would be hilarious [TS]

  bit of casting but I i think i think [TS]

  that it is a Gotham problem to which is [TS]

  alternate like to it was really be [TS]

  Supergirl and and and we get Jimmy Olsen [TS]

  but then we get like Lois Lane's sister [TS]

  and we're going to get like I think next [TS]

  season we're gonna get lex luthor sister [TS]

  and all that it's like Superman drop-in [TS]

  have Lois Lane drop in and talk to Jimmy [TS]

  for an episode and kind of upset the [TS]

  apple cart and leave again I would like [TS]

  them to take those Superman characters [TS]

  and kinda rifle them through and then [TS]

  move them along right i think that would [TS]

  be fine i think that would be okay how [TS]

  about eliminate Superman altogether and [TS]

  just let her be her [TS]

  what do you Lex Luthor all of a sudden [TS]

  yes sudden not something I guess that's [TS]

  sort of what I'm saying is you bring you [TS]

  actually cast Superman so you can bring [TS]

  them on and then send him away and stop [TS]

  talking about him like we saw in he was [TS]

  here we had some good times and then he [TS]

  left and let's never speak of him again [TS]

  he can just just a sticky note it says [TS]

  you know I'm gonna go to space yeah it's [TS]

  not you it's to prevent the kind of had [TS]

  the same problem arrow did where you [TS]

  want to make references to other comic [TS]

  books but if you accidentally say you [TS]

  know like that nutcase over and [TS]

  Bludhaven or you can call yourself [TS]

  oracle that's taken and all of a sudden [TS]

  that implies way more things about your [TS]

  universe and you're prepared to deal [TS]

  with I didn't bother me on the arrow [TS]

  thing just because I figured it was just [TS]

  a joke for for nerds like us we are all [TS]

  arrow backed away from it they didn't [TS]

  keep dwelling on it was super girl we [TS]

  want to talk about Superman yeah right [TS]

  captain Superman too much what's going [TS]

  on right uh okay we got a couple more [TS]

  than I want to cover before we before we [TS]

  wrap and we got it we got a I don't want [TS]

  to end on a negative note so we're going [TS]

  to do [TS]

  legends of tomorrow first alright [TS]

  that's a positive [TS]

  alright legends of tomorrow is next on [TS]

  the docket who will speak for legends of [TS]

  tomorrow Tony Williams legends of [TS]

  tomorrow [TS]

  no I'm writing the prosecution oh it's a [TS]

  it's a court case is it oh I can be the [TS]

  judge as i watched none of it I I will [TS]

  do I will do some defendant guilty [TS]

  beyond a lot not a lot I think you can [TS]

  defend individual elements of it like I [TS]

  really liked with flowers performance in [TS]

  it I like caity lotz I'm yes yes imagine [TS]

  if they were on other shows [TS]

  Oh like I know right they should be it's [TS]

  just there they were like approximately [TS]

  52 many legends of tomorrow and [TS]

  repositories worse than useless and then [TS]

  you have Martin Donovan has already [TS]

  shown up in late you have Martin Donovan [TS]

  acting all evil and I'm like but imagine [TS]

  a world where there was no legends of [TS]

  tomorrow and you got three more Captain [TS]

  Cold episodes in the season of flash [TS]

  better better world you know when the [TS]

  class soon as you find a nice gun the [TS]

  person who has run to it thesaurus and [TS]

  start learning all of the words for cold [TS]

  because that's all you talk about the [TS]

  rest of my maybe Leonard snart had a lot [TS]

  of lonely friday nights and already knew [TS]

  all the words because he had nothing [TS]

  better to do you know you one of the few [TS]

  things i enjoy from the season all [TS]

  agreed with many of the things Lisa just [TS]

  said but i do think that they took Mick [TS]

  Rory for my character that I could not [TS]

  yes about to an actually interesting and [TS]

  very cool character who I dig Domonic [TS]

  Brown really came a long way from the [TS]

  just like I'm stupid and like me and [TS]

  just want to burn things it's like well [TS]

  that's a hard cut its a very [TS]

  one-dimensional character and it worked [TS]

  fine on his few flash appearances but [TS]

  like how do you have a character like [TS]

  Captain Cold you can kind of see why [TS]

  he's like maybe decides to like join up [TS]

  with these guys but it made no sense for [TS]

  heat wave to be there and so I think [TS]

  they did a nice job of the chrono stuff [TS]

  and with the time masters like [TS]

  brainwashing him and all that I actually [TS]

  really enjoyed that that was one of the [TS]

  few things about the season I was like [TS]

  wholeheartedly thumbs up on agree I [TS]

  agree at least thing they did right by [TS]

  him i want to point out so the the [TS]

  showrunner for legends of tomorrow to [TS]

  the interview where people asked him [TS]

  about the fact that the time travel in [TS]

  his time travel show doesn't follow any [TS]

  consistent rules and makes no sense [TS]

  and his response was basically to say oh [TS]

  you know people complain about stuff and [TS]

  those people are not having fun and they [TS]

  should you know that people are like [TS]

  looking for things to complain about [TS]

  and I thought this is everything that's [TS]

  wrong with legends of tomorrow because [TS]

  this this is the showrunner of a show [TS]

  that's about time travel and look [TS]

  time travel is totally made up and [TS]

  ridiculous I you can you can make up [TS]

  whatever crazy rules you want but if [TS]

  your show does it about time travel [TS]

  doesn't have rules it also doesn't have [TS]

  steaks it doesn't have internal [TS]

  consistency and that means it doesn't [TS]

  have any drama because you're just [TS]

  watching like flashing lights on a [TS]

  screen at that point and that his [TS]

  writings of came about and why should we [TS]

  exactly and it shows it shows in legends [TS]

  of tomorrow you can decide to change [TS]

  your time-travel I mean doctor who is [TS]

  not always the most consistent about its [TS]

  rules for time travel but like I was not [TS]

  know that cow it is very definitively [TS]

  not but it tries to have a framework [TS]

  that makes sense right in and win in [TS]

  episodes where that is a central exactly [TS]

  they work hard to make it work and so I [TS]

  think there's a couple places in here [TS]

  where it goes okay I enjoyed ray and [TS]

  kendra being stuck in the 50 i love them [TS]

  that's my favorite episode yeah and Ray [TS]

  having trouble like we had a life like [TS]

  how can you just decide to go back to [TS]

  this like and just like turn it off like [TS]

  that i thought was good consequences to [TS]

  that but you're right that's so much [TS]

  other stuff in here does not make a [TS]

  difference i will agree with that to [TS]

  this extent [TS]

  doctor who throws its rules out at the [TS]

  drop of a hat but it knows what it's [TS]

  doing that gives you just on the hand [TS]

  way to say i know we normally can't ever [TS]

  do this we're doing at this time we've [TS]

  got five doctors deal with it here we're [TS]

  not looking for rigorous like yeah [TS]

  tested time-travel logic here i would i [TS]

  would take but when when the court [TS]

  conceded the show is a guy is trying to [TS]

  save his family by going back in time [TS]

  and stopping got another guy and yet [TS]

  even like within the episodes about that [TS]

  story it's unclear how that would happen [TS]

  or where that would happen or why that [TS]

  would happen and it never becomes clear [TS]

  it's never really resolved to anybody [TS]

  satisfaction about why any of that [TS]

  happen [TS]

  you know you just tossed like like sort [TS]

  of like the flash this season you just [TS]

  kind of toss your whole season long [TS]

  premise away without with a hand wave [TS]

  and it makes for like religious tomorrow [TS]

  I just kept wondering like what are the [TS]

  stakes here and it was never clear the [TS]

  worst is when Sarah wants to go back and [TS]

  save her sister and there's no hole like [TS]

  this is why you can it's like this [TS]

  doesn't like that is letter to me was [TS]

  like did you do you watching the show [TS]

  do you know what the show is about we [TS]

  can do we can't do that because [TS]

  contracts [TS]

  yeah just in time to save your wife and [TS]

  child but nobody that you pick to help [TS]

  save your wife and child can actually [TS]

  see their loved ones got it you hunter [TS]

  you're worse he's the horse like you're [TS]

  literally is the worst Eli's been [TS]

  constantly he has no understanding of [TS]

  Team Dynamics he has no leadership [TS]

  skills whatsoever he has no planning [TS]

  he doesn't listen to the people that are [TS]

  gonna log I i just kept actively ready [TS]

  for him to get killed he just he's got a [TS]

  stolen spaceship and and and a fancy gun [TS]

  that's that so he's basically a [TS]

  sixteen-year-old his boost the parents [TS]

  car on a friday night like what's up [TS]

  that would have been that would have [TS]

  been interesting because that's like [TS]

  your doctor who promised there would [TS]

  likely be fair to be fair [TS]

  his parents are an evil corrupt time [TS]

  agents Nicholson yeah I i really do like [TS]

  Arthur Darvill and I think it's a damn [TS]

  shame that they didn't give him yes sir [TS]

  who made sense in any way and he's he's [TS]

  he's a good actor and he's charming and [TS]

  he can do the sort of rakish like Time [TS]

  Master thing but like his I will take [TS]

  your word for it because none of that [TS]

  was on evidence i know but his yeah [TS]

  you're right that his motivations make [TS]

  no sense his plot makes no sense his [TS]

  character is awful and and see all the [TS]

  things you listed are totally correct [TS]

  Lisa but III can't lay that having seen [TS]

  him you know in several seasons of [TS]

  Doctor Who and on broadchurch and a [TS]

  bunch of other stuff he's a good actor [TS]

  he really just was not given any any [TS]

  sensible material to work with here [TS]

  because this is the only thing i've seen [TS]

  him in so I'm just like me the same [TS]

  reason perhaps the cement John wonder [TS]

  that played hawkman is fantastic and [TS]

  whatever else you are whatever Germany [TS]

  soap opera he was in when they find ya [TS]

  like that the the whole hawkman hawkgirl [TS]

  thing makes no sense whatsoever and then [TS]

  the season finale when she's like we're [TS]

  just gonna hang out here and [TS]

  and and just be together and do cock [TS]

  things for a while and I was like girl [TS]

  no no you don't know this man from from [TS]

  a glass of milk you had a life with Ray [TS]

  who clearly adores you and this is the [TS]

  hot man from the future who they've [TS]

  brought back it doesn't know kendra is [TS]

  like one of the most poorly served [TS]

  characters in the sense that she's like [TS]

  the linchpin to all these plots she gets [TS]

  to be the object of romantic interest [TS]

  and she literally doesn't have a thought [TS]

  in her head that somebody else hasn't [TS]

  put their or motivation everybody is [TS]

  constant from episode to episode it's it [TS]

  was just really frustrating watching her [TS]

  be treated like that and it was also [TS]

  super frustrating that the show begins [TS]

  with an older white man drugging and [TS]

  kidnapping young black man and somehow [TS]

  like this [TS]

  this forced conscription into my feet [TS]

  are like this guide wants is never [TS]

  addressed either Lisa does this deserve [TS]

  Susan too does the shower is my rant i [TS]

  will accept the ramp in season two but [TS]

  do they deserve a shot at season 2i [TS]

  thought they were going to scrap [TS]

  everything and it was gonna be a whole [TS]

  new ensemble so yeah I'll take a [TS]

  complete teardown yeah yeah but no [TS]

  apparently they're bringing a bunch of [TS]

  people back there doing the sleeper it's [TS]

  a 50-percent tear down at least I mean [TS]

  they're not bringing Vandal Savage back [TS]

  right right [TS]

  no no yeah maybe the Hawks aren't coming [TS]

  back I don't know though the Hawks are [TS]

  not the Hawks are not coming back i [TS]

  think i think they are gone which is [TS]

  good he should cast like some [TS]

  professional wrestler vandal savages you [TS]

  need to be like a big huge guy even if [TS]

  he was a much worse actor [TS]

  yeah that was good wait is that possible [TS]

  free i mean like i think they had a bye [TS]

  if they had a professional wrestler like [TS]

  reading off the cue cards okay making [TS]

  eye contact with the camera i feel like [TS]

  the show would have been about twenty [TS]

  percent better i have breaking news [TS]

  yes most you have you have news for us [TS]

  to show sucks [TS]

  ya know guilty guilty is so ruled so [TS]

  ordered [TS]

  LT legislation marel I was so excited [TS]

  about it and it was really bad [TS]

  it also can we mention just how cheap it [TS]

  looks like area [TS]

  come on line one ah there were so many [TS]

  guys who are just wearing like [TS]

  motorcycle jackets who are supposed to [TS]

  be like look like Times greatest killer [TS]

  to stop at the gap first I guess it's [TS]

  like that that npc doesn't even have to [TS]

  be compensated they spent a lot of money [TS]

  on that spaceship that Jason really [TS]

  disliked it's a superhero show [TS]

  first off it you think it's a show [TS]

  populated by superheroes but they're [TS]

  never allowed to be super because it's [TS]

  too expensive and so they don't use [TS]

  their powers and and so at that point [TS]

  why is it not just a time-travel show [TS]

  with regular people and why why have you [TS]

  populated with superheroes who can't use [TS]

  their powers like firestorm is really [TS]

  awesome and I thought oh I'll show with [TS]

  firestorm would be really fun [TS]

  firestorm gets to be firestorm like [TS]

  three times over the course of the [TS]

  season i would if i if I'm répondre [TS]

  which obviously I'm overqualified [TS]

  uh-huh i would handcuff those two [TS]

  together because it's like no you guys [TS]

  don't have to stand in different rooms [TS]

  you don't get to get into the little [TS]

  station while he stays here it's like [TS]

  know you guys like you eat together you [TS]

  sleep together and you firestorm [TS]

  together yes I waste a lot of money i [TS]

  would give up my kids college tuition [TS]

  for you to be rip hunter you know how [TS]

  I've got the jacket already you'll be [TS]

  legends let's end on what I think is it [TS]

  going to be a more positive note which [TS]

  is adjusted just a touch base on another [TS]

  netflix series jessica jones which we [TS]

  get TV series about the lean put [TS]

  together there's of the bunch of [TS]

  episodes about it and this 1i I i [TS]

  thought that this one actually set the [TS]

  bar a lot higher for daredevil and I [TS]

  think they're double didn't clear its [TS]

  own bar for season one I thought yeah I [TS]

  thought that jessica jones i was excited [TS]

  by it after I read the comic when I [TS]

  heard there was going to be a TV show i [TS]

  read the comic and I think they did a [TS]

  great job I think jessica jones was a [TS]

  real surprise for me about just how much [TS]

  I i liked it when people think I loved [TS]

  it Krysten Ritter has been a favorite of [TS]

  mine [TS]

  I know what this sounds like but don't [TS]

  trust the B in apartment 23 [TS]

  I love that show so much really funny [TS]

  and she's so much fun on it [TS]

  oh she's so [TS]

  smart and funny guy she was great on [TS]

  breaking bad so I was really looking [TS]

  forward to her here and you don't see a [TS]

  superhero who's afraid that much and [TS]

  she's playing fear and PTSD so well [TS]

  through so much of that series i've [TS]

  heard especially this year and last year [TS]

  and I i hesitate to use the term which [TS]

  is called agency i don't like it and I [TS]

  don't like the word strong male strong [TS]

  female we don't use that term very often [TS]

  i think that gets misunderstood because [TS]

  i think what the intent of a lot of [TS]

  people discussing that is saying this is [TS]

  a strong character in the sense that [TS]

  this is a three-dimensional character [TS]

  not necessarily this hour and [TS]

  emotionally or physically strong but [TS]

  they are well drawn although jessica [TS]

  jones to be fair is physically extremely [TS]

  strong and does her thing her superpower [TS]

  is opening locked doors and also broke [TS]

  ass [TS]

  yes generally very broken character is [TS]

  which is great as a character [TS]

  yeah yeah agreed a hundred percent at [TS]

  the same time I feel bad because my [TS]

  girls can't watch that one [TS]

  no no never met but it is it is so great [TS]

  to see when we meet jessica jones she's [TS]

  a disaster and we learn as we go [TS]

  why she's a disaster speaking of shows [TS]

  with great village [TS]

  yeah i was going to do maybe on it kills [TS]

  it this show is ruined david tennant for [TS]

  me I just need any money and like I've [TS]

  seen him a lot of things before this [TS]

  broad Church and Doctor Who of course [TS]

  but now when I see him another stuff [TS]

  especially things where he does voices [TS]

  for animated characters like I can't I [TS]

  can't deal with anything [TS]

  kilgrave yeah he's just he's good he's [TS]

  gonna be kill great for a long time so [TS]

  he plays like a like a a wacky cyborg in [TS]

  the ninja turtles cartoon it's like no I [TS]

  can't deal with you as a wacky the [TS]

  reasons i like Supergirl so much is [TS]

  because you've got the car Alex [TS]

  relationship where there are each other [TS]

  sisters and do his best friends and it [TS]

  reminds me a lot of the jessica Patsy [TS]

  relationship which to me was the beating [TS]

  heart of the show like hundred it's [TS]

  great that it's great that she and Luke [TS]

  Cage [TS]

  are are splendidly matched you know in [TS]

  the bedroom Anderson chemistry by the [TS]

  way in terms of castor and he's such a [TS]

  racy great casting michael white culture [TS]

  so red and he's handsome [TS]

  oh my gosh but the beating heart of the [TS]

  show is is the fact that Jessica loves [TS]

  Patsy and would do anything for her and [TS]

  the feeling is more than mutual and [TS]

  those two girls save each other's lives [TS]

  over and over and over again and the [TS]

  whole show is about love and connection [TS]

  and i adore it for that reason it's the [TS]

  first time [TS]

  Marvel TV property or actions even the [TS]

  first property in the MCU that's really [TS]

  gotten female relationships right I that [TS]

  show i watch probably way too much of it [TS]

  in like one sitting at a couple times [TS]

  and like the dreams you get after that [TS]

  let me tell you this is some seriously [TS]

  crazy so it's super creepy like and I [TS]

  thought just so effectively done some [TS]

  great portrayals I really like you know [TS]

  my only I feel like I you know I had [TS]

  seen carrie-anne moss and a bunch of [TS]

  things over the years especially the [TS]

  matrix i always thought she was one of [TS]

  the one most underserved characters in [TS]

  that entire franchise and she's just [TS]

  phenomenal here i really enjoyed her [TS]

  character than and yeah I look forward [TS]

  to see more of her in an iron fist but I [TS]

  i think that she's great in her [TS]

  relationship with Jessica and her own [TS]

  personal screwed-up life and all this [TS]

  like again you get a lot of characters [TS]

  who do things that make sense even when [TS]

  that throws wrenches into like the plans [TS]

  of our of our heroes like well yeah this [TS]

  is this is kind of what happens when you [TS]

  don't like people don't believe you or [TS]

  when you don't fully explain what's [TS]

  going on and it's just how is this was [TS]

  just a fantastic show from starts [TS]

  weirdly hopeful when you think about it [TS]

  because even though there are so many [TS]

  people in such desperate straits they [TS]

  all keep trying and they keep trying to [TS]

  connect with each other and they keep [TS]

  and they keep trying to become better [TS]

  people and they keep trying and they [TS]

  keep hoping and and pushing towards the [TS]

  hope that things will get better and [TS]

  it's an odd thing to say about a show [TS]

  that has one of the darkest ethics i can [TS]

  remember like it in daredevil are kind [TS]

  of neck and neck for like how many dark [TS]

  might seems can you have or things are [TS]

  dripping [TS]

  but it is one of it like it's hard it's [TS]

  it's just a very hopeful show and a very [TS]

  warm show in some ways yeah what I like [TS]

  about it is that it was willing to take [TS]

  kilgrave say here is a monster and then [TS]

  spend a few episodes later in the season [TS]

  saying and this is how he became that [TS]

  way and now you're starting to feel some [TS]

  sympathy for him and no actually still [TS]

  all monster now because they talk about [TS]

  choices and agency it's all like this is [TS]

  precisely what makes kilgrave so bad is [TS]

  he makes poor choices and because it is [TS]

  fortresses he doesn't want anyone else [TS]

  to have any choices at all [TS]

  yeah but we we get to learn why he is [TS]

  the way he is but he's still amounts to [TS]

  a decision such a hard episode i do want [TS]

  to give a I really thought that I'm a [TS]

  kedar ville echo darvill no relation to [TS]

  Arthur Darvill presumably who put his [TS]

  Malcolm the the junkie i hope that [TS]

  storyline was amazing just because that [TS]

  that moment when you realize like not [TS]

  only is he like been spying on her [TS]

  because he's been mind-controlled to a [TS]

  certain extent but also like he just he [TS]

  turned him into a junkie like that was [TS]

  just because heartbreaking right it's [TS]

  just heartbreaking because now because [TS]

  he could but because it served his ends [TS]

  you know like oh now I don't even have [TS]

  to mind control my just you know making [TS]

  dependent on something else and I just [TS]

  thought that guy did a fantastic [TS]

  fantastic job [TS]

  yeah he was the neighbor I liked yeah [TS]

  let's not speak of the other and talk [TS]

  about 24 okay yeah let's ignore the [TS]

  twins for another choice [TS]

  yeah she was acting a completely [TS]

  different series everyone else their [TS]

  depiction of New York City apartment [TS]

  buildings little too real [TS]

  yeah this is it supposed to be like [TS]

  Seinfeld or friends or something [TS]

  why don't they all have beautiful large [TS]

  spacious apartments that are tastefully [TS]

  decorated that's why wasn't it the other [TS]

  way [TS]

  yes I draw the line at New York [TS]

  apartments so yeah I'm super looking [TS]

  forward to the luke cage so yes yes you [TS]

  can regress alright well we're going to [TS]

  wrap the superhero TV season there are [TS]

  more superhero shows oh god there are [TS]

  always more superhero [TS]

  Tom so I'm sure we'll be back and see [TS]

  many more of them next year but that's [TS]

  that's all that's all for this year [TS]

  mixed mix crop that always happens i'd [TS]

  like to thank my panelists for joining [TS]

  me to talk about the bounty of superhero [TS]

  related TV shows [TS]

  did Morgan thanks for being here was a [TS]

  great pleasure I'm sure we'll talk about [TS]

  many many superheroes next so many [TS]

  superheroes films lack most thanks for [TS]

  being here [TS]

  I'm so thrilled and we've spent two [TS]

  hours talking about super I know I know [TS]

  almost almost and we could have could [TS]

  have done for another two probably Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser thank you and look forward to [TS]

  the day they make the show about us [TS]

  talking about superheroes to know you [TS]

  and then we'll talk about and somebody [TS]

  will talk about it won't be as Monte [TS]

  Ashley thank you [TS]

  spoon okay solid and Tony sindelar [TS]

  thanks for being here [TS]

  goodbye Jason goodbye Tony and goodbye [TS]

  to everybody out there listening on the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  we'll be back again next week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and there's about 20 minutes of extra [TS]

  material and outtakes from this [TS]

  recording session in the bonus track for [TS]

  members go to the incomparable calm / [TS]

  members to sign up [TS]