0:00:03the incomparable number 304 2 2016
0:00:14welcome back everybody to the
0:00:15incomparable we're gonna do a special
0:00:16episode about the TV season pass now you
0:00:20know technically the TV season is
0:00:22endless and it never stops and there's
0:00:24always new stuff on now even in the
0:00:25summertime but we're going to take this
0:00:27moment sort of for tradition sake you
0:00:29gotta draw a line somewhere and the
0:00:30traditional broadcast network TV season
0:00:33did just end and so we're going to do a
0:00:36couple episodes in the next month or so
0:00:38about television sort of wrapping up
0:00:42general interest like lots of different
0:00:44stuff and I decided there was so much in
0:00:46this times in these times of confusion
0:00:48times of peak TV that we would take the
0:00:50superhero ish kind of shows and throw
0:00:53them all in a pot and do an episode
0:00:55about them and that's this episode so
0:00:57joining me to talk about the the year
0:01:00gone by in superhero TV and other comic
0:01:02book related TV it's a fine panel of
0:01:05guest dan morgan is here
0:01:07hi dan I Jason pleasure to be here from
0:01:09i should say from the arrow cast yes
0:01:12from the flash flash cast is mr.
0:01:15philipose lachrymose high and also for
0:01:18the flash flash cast Lisa Schmeisser
0:01:20hello hello
0:01:22and also from the flash flash cast at
0:01:24Stony sindelar culinary arts we roll
0:01:26deep that's how we do it all right yeah
0:01:28I feel outnumbered
0:01:30yeah well where the point I'd like maybe
0:01:33time fragments yeah motivation two most
0:01:36most also has a has the daredevil rewind
0:01:38pin on his chest so he's a he's got he's
0:01:42got a lot of superheroes that he's
0:01:43covering and also joining us a guy who's
0:01:46not in any flash cast about superheroes
0:01:48because he saves that for dragons and
0:01:52ice zombies it's Monty actually I'm
0:01:55auntie I spent the last five years
0:01:56trapped on a hellish podcast I'm just
0:02:01adopting Monty for my arrow forever be
0:02:04honorary arrow cast this text I worry
0:02:06that money's gonna spend this entire
0:02:07podcast flashing back to this five years
0:02:09of good and we're just gonna be like why
0:02:13is this relevant design and such a weird
0:02:15week i'm awake when your podcasting I
0:02:18like money but this the flashbacks in
0:02:20the season
0:02:21and I'm not as useful as facial hair
0:02:24keeps changing my grows out if that's
0:02:28what you mean
0:02:28hey we're plugging superhero related
0:02:31stuff we do i would say i right about
0:02:33arrow and Gotham and marvel's agents of
0:02:35shield on previously not TV excellent
0:02:38plug
0:02:38well done while plugged guys I'm
0:02:41actually jason from episode to thousands
0:02:43of the incomparable an immortal mad man
0:02:45killed my family and I've come back in
0:02:47time for unspecified reasons to change
0:02:52history so said I've chosen all of you
0:02:55to be my champions because of on-again
0:02:58unspecified reasons that i was going on
0:03:01with everything that's one word for
0:03:03expected for the expendable ones i guess
0:03:05if you do have the dust you're just
0:03:07changing the present but you'll be
0:03:09legends that sounds like a show it's
0:03:11gonna be really really good
0:03:13I mean really excited about that kind of
0:03:15show I'm not that excited about the
0:03:17other nine people that have been chosen
0:03:18with me know when he was gonna yeah
0:03:19development i think i think in the next
0:03:21season our show will be much better
0:03:24I don't want to be trapped on a
0:03:25spaceship with dan take that
0:03:28so let's let's uh start with we'll do
0:03:32some check-ins on shows that of that are
0:03:34already exist before we go to the the
0:03:37new shows already existed i saw the
0:03:40flashing arrow we mentioned we obviously
0:03:42we've got people here who talked about
0:03:44those shows weekly on the TV podcast
0:03:47from the incomparable if you don't know
0:03:48about it you should check it out we
0:03:49recap and review lots and lots of show
0:03:52is on the TV podcast including some
0:03:55superhero shows uh so what why don't we
0:03:58start with those two since they're kind
0:04:00of in this connected universe and and
0:04:02returning shows what everybody think
0:04:05about the season of arrow as a whole
0:04:08let's start there since we've got a
0:04:10monte and Dan especially representing
0:04:12the deep focus on the arrow show but I
0:04:16know everybody watched it so what do you
0:04:19guys think of this season of arrow neal
0:04:20mcdonough know is you're not around
0:04:22pronounce his name but he's great deal
0:04:24McConaughey's even fantastic
0:04:27yes he made this season if you thank God
0:04:29for neal mcdonough because after last
0:04:31year's wet blanket that was Michelle
0:04:32goal
0:04:33yeah it was a low bar to clear but he
0:04:36cleared it with room to spare
0:04:38by like a guy who enjoys being able
0:04:41really evil with a smile on his face
0:04:44did you guys see season 3 of justified
0:04:47yes I did yes
0:04:48yeah like this is kind of becoming his
0:04:50bread-and-butter and I for one applaud
0:04:51the move
0:04:52he's he enjoys eating scenery at a
0:04:55tremendous rate I'm totally okay with
0:04:58that and he just he really it's
0:05:00fascinating to me I mean he was credited
0:05:01in all of the he appeared in almost
0:05:03every episode in season except for a few
0:05:05and he's credited special appearance by
0:05:07and everyone which makes me wonder if
0:05:08they just shoveled a whole lot of cash
0:05:10in his direction i had several moments
0:05:12where I thought to myself how did arrow
0:05:15a forward meal McDonough because he's
0:05:17way lyric video but he's I mean hey he
0:05:20was worth every penny day yeah i agree i
0:05:23greedy the importance of having a good
0:05:25villain and the villain ideally the
0:05:27villain has some kind of plan and yeah
0:05:28it's gonna be flawed because they're
0:05:29gonna have to be foiled but they gotta
0:05:31have a plan
0:05:31flash they gotta have a plan and then
0:05:33and ideally you've got to just enjoy how
0:05:36to chew the scenery and you know Damien
0:05:39dark cup with a name like that he's got
0:05:42to be a good villain and he was really
0:05:44want darhk that ax ya strange the ages
0:05:49for evil
0:05:50now hold on real quick before we start
0:05:54putting a bunch of feathers in Arrow's
0:05:56cap was well well then it doesn't mind
0:06:01dan I know I'm doing things like you
0:06:03normally do the fetish to help with
0:06:05stability of your that's right now most
0:06:08okay thank you
0:06:10you know I have guy English in my closet
0:06:12right now so that you guys are you on
0:06:14the show arrow was a punching above its
0:06:17weight with nukes agents of shield and
0:06:21Gotham and arrow all head nuclear weapon
0:06:25plots going on at the end of the season
0:06:26only arrow decided it was a good idea
0:06:29for an eight o'clock show to blow up a
0:06:33city and say oh tens of thousands of
0:06:36people are dead off-screen and they
0:06:38don't even mention it the flash
0:06:39university systems near
0:06:41there's nothing there's just there's
0:06:42major issues going on there i guess but
0:06:44i guess i think the problem you know if
0:06:46the Pharaoh had any problems leading up
0:06:49to the end of the season
0:06:50I think what's great about Damien dark
0:06:52is that he does have an agenda he is the
0:06:54hero of his own story told me in a way
0:06:56that in the way that racial goal was
0:06:58just like super concerned about like org
0:06:59charts and it i think that will work
0:07:03well that worked well i agree that I
0:07:06feel like they try to amp it up to a
0:07:08degree that wasn't maybe wasn't
0:07:11necessary and didn't mean that some of
0:07:13the stuff in the in the finale fell a
0:07:16little flat I felt fail the final
0:07:18confrontation was kind of anticlimactic
0:07:20after you after you pulled out nukes
0:07:23like really where do you have to go
0:07:25after that and it is weird
0:07:26unless that in 2000 nukes unless you end
0:07:30up making that anything like for the
0:07:32next season unless you're setting
0:07:34something up
0:07:35I to just do that as sort of an example
0:07:37of how evil the sky is and how much he's
0:07:40powered up now like I don't know it
0:07:42seemed it seemed unnecessary Lee like
0:07:45what's the word I'm looking for
0:07:48it just it seems like a raise the stakes
0:07:50a little bit too much I felt like we
0:07:52were right back in the eighties with all
0:07:53the nuclear cold war stuff going on this
0:07:55this year does it does everything have
0:07:57to be the end of the world I mean that
0:07:59was the other thought that is also
0:08:00seemed awfully prosaic that that it was
0:08:03going to be nuclear weapons blowing
0:08:04everything up when this is a super magic
0:08:06guy i kinda for it figured that would
0:08:08lead to some horrible magic thing he
0:08:10would do but no that's not it its
0:08:11computers that can take over magically
0:08:14can take over guess there's the magic
0:08:16it's the computers must be magical to be
0:08:18able to launch every single nuclear
0:08:19missile in the world but they they they
0:08:22are boy they really these city shows
0:08:25really don't know anything about
0:08:26computers they really you have the techs
0:08:28eteam as we refer to them on the arrow
0:08:30verse cast they yeah they should not be
0:08:34there as far as they're concerned
0:08:34apparently all technology is
0:08:36indistinguishable from magic
0:08:37yeah I will be interested to see if they
0:08:40deal with the aftermath of the entire
0:08:42world's nuclear arsenal being lost right
0:08:45as i'm pretty sure what happened was all
0:08:4815,000 nuclear missiles were launched
0:08:50they were going to take exactly two hour
0:08:52to reach their destination except for
0:08:54one which was going to reach star city
0:08:56in 45 minutes and make a foiled by a
0:08:59handheld camera and a tablet all 15,000
0:09:04other missiles got their horizon flipped
0:09:07upside down so they thought they were
0:09:08supposed to go into space instead of
0:09:10down to earth which is not how gravity
0:09:11works that's not how to clear missiles
0:09:14working but they all went into space for
0:09:17now there are no nukes left on earth
0:09:19enero or presumably flash you would
0:09:21think that would have some kind of
0:09:23effect on and spaces irradiated that was
0:09:26also the aliens come next season and
0:09:28they're really mad like you believed to
0:09:31live in the solar system Citadel say
0:09:32yeah
0:09:33Green Lantern's gonna write us a ticket
0:09:34will be right and jon jones is gonna
0:09:36show up and be like seriously people
0:09:38he's got mad so I thought I thought
0:09:41arrow have a stronger year than the year
0:09:42before I thought the flashback for kind
0:09:44of ridiculous but we're working point
0:09:47now where next season presumably they're
0:09:49basically gonna have to tell a story
0:09:50that leads up to the first episode of
0:09:51the first season I'm kind of looking
0:09:53forward to that although i suspect it
0:09:55still will be unnecessary I would be
0:09:57happy if they drop the flash back and
0:09:58seat entirely i'm also really amused by
0:10:01the idea that in the sixth season
0:10:03they'll have to come up with some other
0:10:04conceit or flashback to the middle of
0:10:06the first season of arrow we got a guy
0:10:09English has been advocating for that
0:10:10since like day one but i think well I
0:10:12mean just drop it at that point there's
0:10:14no reason not to use your unnecessarily
0:10:16constrained by it and you really you
0:10:18have a great idea for two years and they
0:10:20were down to like two minutes of
0:10:22flashbacks per episode in this last
0:10:24season they did not have enough story
0:10:26and they did women try when you've done
0:10:27it for four out of the five years I can
0:10:29see why you feel like you need to wrap
0:10:31it up but yeah I think after season five
0:10:34maybe just let it go
0:10:36I like the couple of episodes where the
0:10:37flashbacks worked all over on the is
0:10:40diggle diggle had some good ones
0:10:42yeah there's one yeah they wanted to
0:10:45others too but yeah I think in there
0:10:47wanted to episode where they dropped
0:10:48entirely and you have to be and you're
0:10:49like I really did not miss this flight i
0:10:54can go through a little praise to some
0:10:56of the supporting cast a narrow I i'm
0:10:58constantly impressed by the supporting
0:10:59cast a narrow especially Diggle and
0:11:01Felicity I think those are our
0:11:03characters that brings so much dimension
0:11:05to the part they make the leading man
0:11:07look better because
0:11:08they give him things to play off of and
0:11:10know that the way that they interact
0:11:11with Oliver i think is a I think it's a
0:11:14that something got some good they got
0:11:17they got whether it's luck or things a
0:11:19little bit of luck and then also the
0:11:21wisdom to see what they had but those
0:11:23those are those actors are both very
0:11:25good and the characters really help that
0:11:27show i think that would be that show
0:11:29would be not watchable like thinking
0:11:32maybe i would argue if you didn't have
0:11:34such a great sort of trio at the at the
0:11:37core of it with with Diggle and Felicity
0:11:38along with all of her and they had a
0:11:40great season arc I mean at the end of
0:11:42the day
0:11:43yeah i mean comparing it to other things
0:11:46like the flash they actually had a full
0:11:49season arc that yeah didn't seem to
0:11:52stammer yeah they really did run right
0:11:54through and they will they had I mean I
0:11:55think they ran right through for the
0:11:57most part there were a couple hiccups
0:11:58here and there but they stuck to the
0:12:00main plot he Damon dark shows up in
0:12:02episode 1 and you know is evil and then
0:12:05basically you know we unfold that
0:12:07through the course of the season there's
0:12:08a couple other good little mini arcs in
0:12:10there there's some dumb arcs I think we
0:12:12all probably agree that the I can't tell
0:12:17my girlfriend about my filmmaking
0:12:20community high on the ark was silly i
0:12:23think they were just trying to back out
0:12:24of Oliver marrying Felicity which by the
0:12:27way
0:12:28shouldn't we be married by now she seems
0:12:30to have completely forgiven him but the
0:12:32marriage did not go back on
0:12:34well you know sometimes people feel very
0:12:36strongly when they're like two about
0:12:37illegitimate love children loves fickle
0:12:40as we know as we now still better still
0:12:43better season than last year's numero
0:12:44yes
0:12:45oh absolutely this is yeah i'm really
0:12:48enjoying Felicity's mother and Curtis
0:12:51Holt's yeah well that's fantastic
0:12:53both of them are enthusiastic about
0:12:54things and not mopey usually which I
0:12:57love mom smokes so much I do she's the
0:13:00greatest and i have i've enjoyed every
0:13:03every episode she's been in the minute
0:13:05she shows up on screen charlotte ross is
0:13:07a pretty underrated player in this
0:13:08university that's me
0:13:10she's great and Jean Paul Blackthorne to
0:13:12rr4 yeah that's all i can say is that
0:13:14she even makes Paul Blackthorne is
0:13:16character sort of interesting which for
0:13:19me is a big thing because I i think they
0:13:21should kill them off
0:13:22couple seasons ago I find him when I
0:13:24find him completely useless and boring i
0:13:26hope maybe you know with with the the
0:13:28Oliver Queen administration potentially
0:13:30coming up in season five maybe they'll
0:13:32give him something to do that will make
0:13:34them interesting but as the cop on the
0:13:36edge you skeptical of everything and
0:13:37keeps getting into trouble
0:13:39it's like his daughters keep getting
0:13:40murdered yeah he has a heart condition
0:13:41only when it's convenient I'm coming for
0:13:44you
0:13:45he's also the list of open topic in the
0:13:47world record for the first few seasons
0:13:49he's got a lot on his mind
0:13:52uh-huh what he wasn't his daughters keep
0:13:54getting killed me back in the day
0:13:55beautiful beginning coming back from the
0:13:57dead and becoming assassins and bringing
0:13:59home girlfriends were heir to the dragon
0:14:01and it's all good topic and its really
0:14:03tough like I was gonna say that i'm
0:14:05looking forward to season five I am
0:14:06really kind of interested in the Oliver
0:14:08as the mayor of Star City Art which i
0:14:11believe was an Arsenal in the comics I
0:14:13don't know I just like the idea of
0:14:15balancing like we we got very little of
0:14:17Oliver Queen this season like it really
0:14:19was very centric on you know he is the
0:14:21green arrow right that's his identity
0:14:24and we didn't have to have been
0:14:25balancing as much as he did in some of
0:14:27the early seasons and I think this is a
0:14:29new interesting and wrinkle for that how
0:14:31do you fight crime and be the mayor I
0:14:33love that the secret identity wrinkle of
0:14:35like it's not just that he's a person
0:14:36with a secret identity he's the mayor of
0:14:38the city with and he's also a superhero
0:14:40I bet that's where you get away with its
0:14:42great hello I'm looking for the police
0:14:44commissioner meetings where be running
0:14:45against the light of your like I
0:14:47promised your council meeting and police
0:14:50scanner goes off near like guys can we
0:14:52to table this 40 little bit i gotta go
0:14:55but you have really specific crime stats
0:14:58like this guy got married last night
0:14:59like what you doing about that
0:15:01yeah before we leave I will say I'm so
0:15:04happy there's as much John Barrowman as
0:15:06there is yeah always happy when he shows
0:15:08up he's not even a villain anymore you
0:15:10know released being Thea's father he's a
0:15:15persistent nuisance more than anything
0:15:16else which is enjoyable when he's a
0:15:19special kind of helicopter parent
0:15:21check the tiger mom little bit
0:15:26alright let's move on and talk about the
0:15:27flash than me at the arrows a parent
0:15:30obviously the flash cast covered this
0:15:33well episode by episode III I get the
0:15:37sense from everybody that the general
0:15:39feeling is that season 2 did not go as
0:15:41well as season one did would that be
0:15:43accurate to say what's our general when
0:15:46i finish it
0:15:46oh man that's generous
0:15:49I have been thinking about this because
0:15:54part of the problem is it's they didn't
0:15:57have a very strong feeling this season
0:15:59zoom was mostly incomprehensible and a
0:16:04lot of his motivation was opaque and
0:16:06best and I feel like this this season
0:16:10was a lot of dropped potential and the
0:16:12things that were already problems
0:16:14emerging in season when we're not
0:16:16addressed in season two for example the
0:16:18flashes serious problems when characters
0:16:20and it only got worse this year so it
0:16:22was disappointing that way they didn't
0:16:24have a good big bad and they try think
0:16:27they bit off more than they could chew
0:16:28with a bunch of the things that they
0:16:30want to explore i enjoyed watching parts
0:16:33and every episode but by the end of the
0:16:35season I was like okay let's regroup
0:16:37plus pullback whoever has been doing
0:16:39double time on legends of tomorrow and
0:16:41just give them one job and some to who
0:16:43it was a sophomore slump and I blame
0:16:47because i don't want to blame flash I
0:16:51blame that sucky show legend very good
0:16:54for screwing up a great show but who
0:16:58knows
0:16:59yeah I I early in the season I was
0:17:01willing to chalk it up to legends of
0:17:04tomorrow launching and that being a
0:17:05problem but now you almost have to say
0:17:07like did they was there a brain drain or
0:17:09something that distracted them my and
0:17:11I'm starting to think that's too that's
0:17:13too much of an excuse that for me to
0:17:15give to them that fact is a structural
0:17:17issues there hmm
0:17:18and we're pacing and a villain who to go
0:17:21back to Damien dark villain unlike
0:17:22Damien dark who it has no clear plan or
0:17:27even maybe he just doesn't make sense in
0:17:29fact they keep seeing kept him to change
0:17:31what he was up to
0:17:32he disappears for long he's very fast
0:17:35you can be anywhere immediately but he
0:17:36disappears for long stretches of time
0:17:38where he seems to not be around only
0:17:41because it's inconvenient for him to be
0:17:43around and there's never any explanation
0:17:45like I always I always said in our slack
0:17:47channel he he's gets very hungry he goes
0:17:50to buffalo wild wings he's watching
0:17:51sports on the TV
0:17:52it's like 80 plates wings and then he
0:17:54comes back he doesn't dine and dash of
0:17:56Buffalo one's the best explanation for
0:17:58zoom is buffalo wild wings and that is a
0:18:00problem is what i'm saying is also
0:18:02inconvenient when he's around like in
0:18:04that one episode where they have to make
0:18:05the formula to steal Barry speed to give
0:18:07to me to sit around watching do stuff
0:18:10I'm a scientist who will just watching
0:18:13science and about why i think that may
0:18:15be the most awkward scene it was a
0:18:17season where he was like i'm hanging out
0:18:19i'll tell you something that may be the
0:18:21same episode where he instructs his a
0:18:24one of his villains to attack to kill
0:18:27all the all the police jitters but don't
0:18:29do it now do it we'll do it tonight
0:18:31like why wait like what is there like
0:18:34Derek enforcement community centers
0:18:36where it's prime time you want the
0:18:38ratings in primetime so you always just
0:18:40there's so much about that that's just
0:18:42so everything about zoom which is
0:18:43battling an incomprehensible because the
0:18:45very beginning
0:18:46he's like yeah you're not a hero Barry
0:18:47Allen he breaks his back and it's all
0:18:49very dramatic and you're like oh this is
0:18:51a guy with a real hate on for moral
0:18:53codes but by like the last but by the
0:18:56finale and you have too many dads and
0:18:58I'm angry that you had a better
0:18:59childhood and you turned out better than
0:19:01I did and I'm going to kill your dad
0:19:03because that will make you even like
0:19:05wait what we turn them into a crazy
0:19:06serial killer maybe I want you to be
0:19:09evil or maybe I want to destroy the
0:19:11universe it's unclear maybe just want
0:19:13your skin maybe it's here
0:19:15so here's the thing i think too much
0:19:16stuff was put to service of the of the
0:19:19twist right like of the they worked
0:19:21really well in the first season where
0:19:23they had the sort of lurking dramatic
0:19:25irony of like and we all know that that
0:19:28that Harrison wells is evil and that
0:19:31slowly unfolded over the course of the
0:19:32season and that works really well and
0:19:35they felt like hey maybe like they want
0:19:37to sort of the M night Shyamalan area of
0:19:38like hey we need to twist and let's have
0:19:40like they talked about the fact that
0:19:43they like this is exactly what happened
0:19:45to him last year but that doesn't really
0:19:47observe them from trying to use the
0:19:49exact same plot beats and so I think too
0:19:50much was was made subservient to this
0:19:53idea of like we want to set up this jay
0:19:54garrick twist
0:19:56iid feel like this was an idea they had
0:19:58early on and then they just had to like
0:20:00shove a lot of stuff into weird places
0:20:02to make that what they thought make that
0:20:05work
0:20:05there's so many weird side tangent
0:20:08states they take that make any sense I
0:20:10think I kept waiting for there to be the
0:20:12scene where it's like where he takes
0:20:13Kayla and shows her the earth 111like
0:20:16read a book in the oh yeah and the part
0:20:18and that that never that never goes
0:20:20anywhere that never makes any sense that
0:20:22scene was just there so comic book
0:20:24readers would go oh ok so Jay Garrick is
0:20:26professor zoom then because that's 400
0:20:29all of his professor zoom so you're
0:20:30tipping us off and that's just not fair
0:20:32it's not fair at all that they that they
0:20:35did that like there is no chance service
0:20:37well there's street justice and I
0:20:40there's only one guy that I know that
0:20:42does street justice right so let's just
0:20:45be honest it's daredevil but anyway the
0:20:49UH so what what I want to praise some
0:20:51things about the flash though because
0:20:52although i think they could totally do
0:20:54it on the on the ark in the villain what
0:20:57I think they did well is in the
0:20:59multiverse concept they did they had a
0:21:01lot of fun playing with doppelgangers I
0:21:03thought they did a really good job with
0:21:04doppelgangers I thought they did a
0:21:05fantastic creative job of giving Tom
0:21:08Cavanagh different Harrison wells to
0:21:11play he did a great job with the second
0:21:13hair cells so great-looking character
0:21:15from your thoughts MVP Tom Cavanagh hehe
0:21:17really owned in season one you had the
0:21:19evil Harrison wells who is friendly and
0:21:22four season do they have the mean
0:21:24Harrison wells who is good
0:21:26and as long as they can keep trotting
0:21:28tom cavanagh out i'm gonna be happy yeah
0:21:31like incision to he learns how to be a
0:21:33real boy in season 1 yards on is like I
0:21:35didn't want to actually like you people
0:21:37and that I I like Tom Cavanagh can play
0:21:41the heck out of those scenes so he can
0:21:42do is I really like Jesse Martin's work
0:21:45this season and I liked when they
0:21:48introduced the son he never knew he had
0:21:50and although the the street racing plot
0:21:53was really dumb like really dumb AI I
0:21:57think after all these weird weirdish
0:21:59introduction I like that things were
0:22:01awkward with him and bury it first i
0:22:02like how to become less so until by the
0:22:04end while he's like no we're part of the
0:22:06same family and I liked that a lot
0:22:08I still feel like irises is just nobody
0:22:12in the writers miss adopt you know I
0:22:14look it's so first I'll idea i watch the
0:22:17show every week with my girlfriend and
0:22:18she is incensed every weekend likes to
0:22:21point out every week the flaws in that
0:22:22and and and you know to give credit when
0:22:25they do occasionally do a good job she
0:22:28liked in particular I think the episode
0:22:30is the second time that he's lost his
0:22:32speed the one with the zombie girder
0:22:34yeah yeah like they actually that was
0:22:38like one of the better episodes this
0:22:40season I felt like and she felt that the
0:22:42they actually gave her you know agency
0:22:44and stuff to do in that episode also the
0:22:47episode her doppelganger in particular I
0:22:49feel like was a lot of fun so IE but
0:22:52overall both her and caitlin who is just
0:22:56you know Caitlin just perennial like her
0:22:58love interest is going to be evil /
0:23:00murdered his boyfriend is the drummer of
0:23:05spinal tap
0:23:06iris fundamentally she and Barry were
0:23:10raised as brother and sister she can't
0:23:12be the love interest that gross stop it
0:23:17the flash is supposed to be a happy for
0:23:19color cheerful world
0:23:22yeah i agree with hand do the hat and
0:23:25iris loses all of her her agency and
0:23:27other there's that terrible scene where
0:23:29she and Caitlin are talking and it is
0:23:31the anti back l test scene because all
0:23:33they're talking about is Barry they have
0:23:35all this other stuff going on
0:23:36and literally what iris is saying is
0:23:38well you know I've always sort of been
0:23:40vaguely interested in Barry but not but
0:23:43now that I've seen that in parallel
0:23:44universes and potential futures we're
0:23:46together I guess I should just give up
0:23:48and settle for bearing it's like it's
0:23:52like the word
0:23:53futurama episode it's awful like I hate
0:23:56that she's like well since somebody saw
0:23:58holographic newspaper where I had a
0:24:00different byline back from this parallel
0:24:03universe when told me that I'm married
0:24:05to Baron were apparently quite happy
0:24:07like I iris your reporter check the
0:24:10primary sources and just yeah she's such
0:24:12a great reporter that she dates her boss
0:24:14lady oh oh my god that was the worst
0:24:18then i will drop that is a little strong
0:24:22have to work this out it's awful because
0:24:24the boss is the one who is egregiously
0:24:26inappropriate like all the way down the
0:24:27line like he crosses the line at every
0:24:29opportunity
0:24:30oh I was unaware this is an actual
0:24:31legitimate professional conversation I
0:24:33thought that we were here so i could put
0:24:34the moves on you and as if that's not
0:24:36bad enough the end of the episode
0:24:37wouldn't mind if you made a pass at me
0:24:40with no yeah no yeah no it's not good
0:24:43what do you mean let me all right let me
0:24:45make this suggestion for season 3 what
0:24:46if we just somehow like what if this
0:24:48Irish mr. Lee goes mysteriously goes
0:24:50missing and we get earth to Iris over
0:24:52here and it's like okay look you saw a
0:24:54lot of problems she wasn't raised with
0:24:55Barry so they can be love interest
0:24:57except that she's gonna miss her husband
0:24:59Barry whatever here we can you tell
0:25:01stories based on the way back to his
0:25:03home wanna look like it's like the Black
0:25:05Canary play where the first black canary
0:25:07actually like in the widow danbury
0:25:09that's how she felt so here's one of the
0:25:12things that I think is interesting about
0:25:13about the flash and arrow arrow arrow is
0:25:16a show where they don't have any mentors
0:25:18right he always out there doing it
0:25:20himself
0:25:21chinese dude from the eye with Felicity
0:25:22and you have the island with Felicity
0:25:25and with a with Diggle he's got he's got
0:25:28a good support system who works with him
0:25:30on the flash it's different it's a
0:25:32different scenario he's got his dad's as
0:25:35lisa says my three dads science dead and
0:25:38police dad in prison dad who became
0:25:40released from prison log cabin and then
0:25:43dead dad
0:25:43rolling stone dead dad but that but so
0:25:48sad but I some and that part of the show
0:25:51I think works great right i mean we'd
0:25:53see Tom Cavanagh and jesse l martin
0:25:55again they're like the MVPs of that show
0:25:57I really anchor the grant gustin's Barry
0:25:59Allen it's really good
0:26:00the problem with the flash is that they
0:26:02have some issues with a lot of the
0:26:04supporting characters they've done some
0:26:05good rehab on cisco who got who got some
0:26:07five powers this year and that was
0:26:09really good but yea Kaitlyn and iris are
0:26:12our in trouble and it means that again
0:26:16yes what we've got is if I Jesse quick
0:26:18actually I thought was a more
0:26:19interesting and had a female character
0:26:21with depth then the two characters that
0:26:23we had for two seasons now which is
0:26:25painful
0:26:26so I don't know what they're gonna do
0:26:27next season i hope they get it i hope
0:26:29they get it back together because it
0:26:30when that show is fun and happy it is
0:26:34the best and I I don't know quite why
0:26:36they went so far off the ground what if
0:26:37so much me reset everything and start
0:26:39over
0:26:40hmm again love it Tony I love it I love
0:26:45that idea let's do that because remember
0:26:48everything you've been talking about
0:26:50especially Jason you have talked about
0:26:52everything that we liked about season
0:26:55one in fair the things that we loved
0:26:57about season one how would you feel
0:26:59about just watching a season that's all
0:27:01of season one but Barry doesn't have any
0:27:03powers
0:27:04I don't think I want to do that is you
0:27:06don't want to do it either but every
0:27:08scene is the same so it's just running
0:27:10at you i appreciate its just a
0:27:11procedural will jog a lot doesn't seem
0:27:14like maybe the part of the at the very
0:27:16end of this season was intended as like
0:27:19oh crap we just wrote herself into a
0:27:21terrible season let's just quick pull
0:27:23the ripcord that the one thing that
0:27:26makes the flash appealing to me is that
0:27:27they're willing to go for it like I felt
0:27:29like that in season one where they were
0:27:30like okay I don't know what we're
0:27:32supposed to do
0:27:34alright hit the big red button for
0:27:36alternate universes already but no hit
0:27:38boom go crazy for me that Cisco's role
0:27:41on the show is he's there to remind
0:27:43people this is a full-on comic book show
0:27:46we're going nuts as often as possible
0:27:48which is kind of way I still enjoy the
0:27:52flash more than arrow where it took them
0:27:54four season to say what we
0:27:56just call him green arrow right people
0:27:59after us
0:28:00there's a build all right let's uh let's
0:28:03move on from the Berlin diverse for a
0:28:05little while and go to some other real
0:28:06returning shows some shows that are not
0:28:09not not new in the past year
0:28:11let's check in before we before we leave
0:28:14the DC Comics world behind
0:28:16let's check in with Gotham on Fox
0:28:20hey I haven't I gave up on and season
0:28:22one I heard a lot of people say season
0:28:24two is better
0:28:25who out there is seen Gotham and would
0:28:26like to talk about Gotham i have a
0:28:28healthy relationship with all Batman
0:28:30properties
0:28:31hello Tony simple hi Tony hi I'm still
0:28:35watching off them I it's actually it's
0:28:38better I don't know why I stayed with it
0:28:40but I think they look up i'm glad to
0:28:42stop punishing before that
0:28:44yeah it's not as many shows in the next
0:28:47season
0:28:47some of the shows that it continues to
0:28:49be are actually covered wagon fun
0:28:51uh yeah and i think it may have found
0:28:54it's a it's group
0:28:55I'm i would i'm interested to see where
0:28:57it's going it's it it is not the crazy
0:29:00garbage file instead it is like it's a
0:29:03spectacular train wreck a train wreck is
0:29:05on Rails the first half of this season I
0:29:07thought was still not fantastic but
0:29:09sometimes they came back after like that
0:29:11midseason hiatus and I really felt like
0:29:13they had like.we we picked the lane
0:29:15basically like we've decided which of
0:29:17eight million different shows that we
0:29:19want to be
0:29:20we're going to focus on this thing
0:29:21everything was kind of related which
0:29:23actually really helped everything sort
0:29:25of focus around this idea of Arkham
0:29:27Asylum and Hugo Strange and that really
0:29:30unified a lot of storylines brought a
0:29:32lot of characters into contact to rather
0:29:34than having them all off in their
0:29:35different stories beauty wang as he's
0:29:39rangy on about a very dark he was
0:29:42fantastic yeah it's really good
0:29:43another good scenery-chewing I continue
0:29:46to enjoy Harvey Bullock i will always
0:29:49enjoy Donal Logue pretty much anything
0:29:51he does he's great he has i really
0:29:53enjoyed the AV club reviews of him just
0:29:55have every week eh nevermind the
0:29:57Bullock's section where they just have
0:29:58his wacky his quote of the week they
0:30:00really cut back on this season though
0:30:02didn't they yeah yeah a little sad but
0:30:05he's still around which is good
0:30:08and i enjoy i also enjoy Sean Pertwee is
0:30:11as Alfred I really and he's kind of an
0:30:14easy very different Alfred I think from
0:30:15the one that were used to and he's he's
0:30:17definitely fun to watch especially
0:30:18there's some episode we got into like a
0:30:19like a street fight with a guy named was
0:30:23eating my cupcake or something yes it
0:30:25was amazing that was a really great
0:30:27upset one thing that I have enjoyed
0:30:29about this season is that at
0:30:31in the first episode in the pilot
0:30:33episode of Gotham you saw the Riddler
0:30:35and he was introduced by saying
0:30:38essentially hi I'm Edward nigga
0:30:41riddle me this I enjoy your rental is
0:30:43going to turn into I liked him in season
0:30:46one that I thought he was overdoing it
0:30:48season one in season two I love that guy
0:30:50he is so great now there's a scene
0:30:53towards the end of the season where
0:30:56selina kyle is breaking into Arkham
0:30:58Asylum while he's trying to break out
0:31:01and they're both in the vents and they
0:31:03bump into each other and they don't
0:31:04really know each other so he's like your
0:31:06that cat burglar girl she's like your
0:31:09that police forensics guy do you know
0:31:11where you're going
0:31:12uh yeah over there okay well see ya and
0:31:16it's such a fun scene i enjoy when he
0:31:18gets caught red-handed trying to dig up
0:31:21a corpse in the woods
0:31:23yeah and it's just like I crap yep he's
0:31:27great
0:31:28penguin is great at this point I really
0:31:30enjoyed penguin penguin sidekick butch
0:31:33yes is really great like there's a lot
0:31:36of really fun villains on the show which
0:31:38is what you want what I want
0:31:40well in the the sort of guy I thought
0:31:42that the whole introduction of theo
0:31:44galavan in the first half of the season
0:31:45was kind of weak and then they basically
0:31:48like off him and then bring him back as
0:31:51as rail which is super weird but also
0:31:54kind of hilarious
0:31:56yeah well one thing that's great about
0:31:57Hugo Strange was he was bringing people
0:31:59back to life and he was brainwashing
0:32:02people and you realize he's actually
0:32:04pretty bad at this
0:32:06like he was brainwashing people to be to
0:32:09no longer be sociopaths and sending them
0:32:11out into the world and inside of two
0:32:12scenes they're like oh wait no I and I'm
0:32:15a sociopath nevermind science is not an
0:32:17exact science
0:32:18I think I've got weird and fun sometime
0:32:24during the second season I'm gonna have
0:32:26to go watch it now yeah I was also happy
0:32:28because i thought at the start of season
0:32:30two like oh it looks like they might do
0:32:32the court of owls and then it looks like
0:32:33they wouldn't and now it looks like they
0:32:35did it again so if you've read the
0:32:36comics that's extra excited i will say
0:32:38my least favorite part of the show is
0:32:39Bruce Wayne it partly some Batman's in
0:32:42it
0:32:42nobody young Bruce Wayne is like 13 show
0:32:45oh and the problem is that he keeps
0:32:47wanting to go to bat many things like
0:32:49I'm gonna go to live on the streets so i
0:32:51know what it's like out there like
0:32:53understand crime now it says well young
0:32:57master Bruce you work for
0:33:00I work for you so even though I'm your
0:33:01legal guardian I can't stop you boy
0:33:04well and I think that the fundamental
0:33:05problem this show as I think I mentioned
0:33:06last season is a if the show ends with
0:33:09Bruce Wayne becoming Batman then
0:33:11fundamentally nothing in this show has
0:33:12really mattered because if the whole
0:33:16point is like you know your focus they
0:33:17spend so much time focused on Jim Gordon
0:33:19and Jim Gordon's attempt to sort of like
0:33:21clean up the city when in fact it's
0:33:22really just about the downward spiral
0:33:23and corruption it was not he's not doing
0:33:26a great job
0:33:26no Jim Gordon has one of the weaker
0:33:29storylines this year and also liked his
0:33:32career doesn't make any sense
0:33:33well he doesn't have a career he's been
0:33:35in jail a couple of times and he just
0:33:37quit and left town also a baby
0:33:39it does make me a little concerned that
0:33:40by the time in the Gotham you universe
0:33:43when Bruce Wayne actually becomes Batman
0:33:45like all of his villains are like elder
0:33:47later their way to elderly to really be
0:33:49success maybe maybe Jim Gordon will
0:33:51become Batman for a while here I know
0:33:54that happened the comics reason Alex
0:33:55yeah that there's no need for Batman in
0:33:57this world this Riddler is not so subtle
0:34:00that they need a supergenius to solve
0:34:03what he's saying let's uh let's leave
0:34:05Gotham behind although I am intrigued by
0:34:06the fact that that it got better and
0:34:09talk about some of the Marvel properties
0:34:10agents of shield for its what is this
0:34:13the fourth season of asians you
0:34:15something like that feels right and then
0:34:17we'll we'll talk about season two basic
0:34:19agent Carter to so ages of shield
0:34:21yeah uh how was yet how how was it how
0:34:25was that iíve seen the first half of
0:34:27the season and I haven't seen the second
0:34:28half yet but you know don't worry about
0:34:30me but I'm just kind of curious how
0:34:32how do people think think it went and
0:34:34had some really good scenes
0:34:37overall it felt weird it's disappointing
0:34:39because kyle maclachlan was no longer on
0:34:41the show being awesome right
0:34:44but for instance they wrote the
0:34:46characters are hunter and Bobbi off the
0:34:47show because they thought they were
0:34:49going to get a spin-off spin-off we
0:34:52didn't get twice I think
0:34:55yeah but the scene where they've been
0:34:58disavowed and this time for real and no
0:35:01one can never talk to them again that
0:35:03episode ended with a really really good
0:35:05scene
0:35:06totally agree where they're turned Bobby
0:35:09ran a bar they look around they see
0:35:11every other member of the team and they
0:35:13all raised their glasses
0:35:14yeah it's it's funny because then if you
0:35:16decide because they didn't get a
0:35:18spin-off that they need to be back on
0:35:20the show walking that scene back really
0:35:22cheap and spit
0:35:23yeah just suck those tears baby i gave
0:35:27up on the show halfway through the
0:35:28season so I just say it does seem like
0:35:30it took them three and a half years to
0:35:34get to embrace the fact that
0:35:35super-powered people were were were part
0:35:39of the universe like this was the sort
0:35:41of like what we're saying that Gotham
0:35:42it's like hey you know what's great
0:35:43about the Marvel Cinematic Universe not
0:35:45the superhero part and uh but finally
0:35:49with with shield day they sort of
0:35:52embrace that with the Inhumans plot and
0:35:54having a sky / daisy you know have her
0:35:59wrists Daisy
0:35:59however I yeah I know but for those who
0:36:01gave up which is half of the people she
0:36:04used to be skyping another color Daisy
0:36:06because love character laundering she's
0:36:08got earthquake power i strongly believe
0:36:10that you call someone by the name they
0:36:12wish to be called her name is Stacy
0:36:13Johnson yes it is actually
0:36:15I that was actually an interesting plot
0:36:17line as some characters kept forgetting
0:36:19that you didn't matter at her
0:36:21yes and when she went to grant Ward who
0:36:25is now dead and possessed by an ancient
0:36:28evil alien inhuman that maybe the recent
0:36:31hydro was formed in the first place or
0:36:33possibly not that seems like a stretch
0:36:35that they pulled back he kept calling
0:36:37her sky and even though she was now
0:36:41brainwashed by him she kept correcting
0:36:43which I thought was really fun I i did
0:36:45like that episode and I know a lot of
0:36:46people praise that there was that
0:36:47episode that it focuses on the the on
0:36:52the alien planet where they wear
0:36:55yeah was it isn't Simmons is trapped in
0:36:57the alien planet with the astronaut and
0:36:59there's a monster and it was a nice
0:37:01change of the blue the blue planet the
0:37:02planet where there's never any Sun it's
0:37:03just blue light all the time i was at
0:37:06the soul
0:37:07yeah i was a really great yeah it's hard
0:37:10to mean obviously it's hard to pull off
0:37:12something like that every single week
0:37:13because it's you know specifically set
0:37:15up to like break the formula sure but it
0:37:18is really nice that they've shown the
0:37:20confidence to be able to do that I think
0:37:21some of the action scenes came up with
0:37:23this this year I think they did a nice
0:37:25job with some of those especially adding
0:37:27the powers into the mix there's a pretty
0:37:28good fight later on that involves the
0:37:31easy using her powers which is a pretty
0:37:34is really really well choreographed
0:37:35there's a couple nice twists and turns
0:37:38in terms of like sort of how they deal
0:37:42with the eventual villain problems and
0:37:45like managed to tie up like another plot
0:37:47line at the same time and I think that
0:37:50there's there's some solid character
0:37:52work here and there from i really like
0:37:54mac i know he is not the most popular
0:37:56characters but I really is not him he's
0:37:59great i know a lot of people who don't
0:38:00like him but I i really enjoy him
0:38:02especially was right yeah it's ongoing
0:38:04quest for a shotgun x which he got in
0:38:08the final episode that looks grote he
0:38:10gets one earlier on that he's just like
0:38:11tapes and ax ya shotgun is pretty great
0:38:14too
0:38:14that was really that like you should
0:38:16really liked that episode with him and
0:38:17his brother I thought that was a good
0:38:18episode
0:38:19yeah I'm so there's some really solid
0:38:20character kits it's an uneven show in
0:38:22some ways and it doesn't quite hit the
0:38:24the lows or the highs that's a Gotham
0:38:27hits like atoms like wildly uneven and
0:38:31agent agent of shield I think waivers a
0:38:33little more like a little less from that
0:38:35center line right like it's it's may not
0:38:37be quite as good but it's also
0:38:39definitely not quite as like terrible
0:38:40and its first moments see and Dan
0:38:43I've caught you know what you said is
0:38:45perfect is the unevenness and I've said
0:38:48this before have caught heat for it
0:38:50which is that Marvel agents of shield
0:38:53which is a weird name but is essentially
0:38:58a kind of a carry through or a you know
0:39:02a little bit of a booster for any Marvel
0:39:05main movie like for example this season
0:39:09was Civil War right which doesn't it
0:39:12doesn't good like find itself is
0:39:13beholding as much as it did say first
0:39:15season with winter soldier where was
0:39:17like really show it just like tank its
0:39:20first half because it felt like it had
0:39:21to be there for that twist and twist was
0:39:23awesome but the show before that was
0:39:25very mediocre and it doesn't it hasn't
0:39:28hit quite as much to that in the
0:39:29subsequent seasons I think they realize
0:39:31that's problematic but the other problem
0:39:33is as the even the lead i believe Chloe
0:39:35Bennet said recently like doesn't seem
0:39:37like the movies care at all about what
0:39:39happens on the shows and that's it's
0:39:41definitely uncomfortable when you feel
0:39:44like why did you make this such a big
0:39:46part of your whole I transmedia property
0:39:48if you're not going to make it matter at
0:39:49all
0:39:49yeah that was a huge problem for me
0:39:51because in civil war there's a lot of
0:39:53talk danger i want to talk about a giant
0:39:55movie there's a lot of talks among the
0:39:57bad things that superheroes do and
0:40:00nobody mentions the word in human which
0:40:03is weird because according to the
0:40:05television show in humans are the most
0:40:08important thing anybody talks about and
0:40:10the president of the united states is
0:40:12constantly giving press conference to
0:40:13talk about the inhuman problem
0:40:15yeah oh yeah the movies don't mention
0:40:17anything that happens on the TV show in
0:40:20practical terms because the movies and
0:40:23TV shows are now being operated by
0:40:25different groups essentially the Marvel
0:40:28TV shows have sheared off from the
0:40:30Marvel movies and they're not even in
0:40:32the same universe anymore and joss
0:40:33whedon said with age of Ultron that uh
0:40:36as far as he was concerned you know that
0:40:39that Coulson was dead in age of Ultron
0:40:41yeah well except that every time a movie
0:40:44comes out they have to spend half of the
0:40:46next eight next episode of agents of
0:40:48shield talking about the milk
0:40:51yeah so they keep kept turning to each
0:40:53other and saying how about that sakova
0:40:54an accord huh i know right and the
0:40:57netflix unity netflix series for
0:41:00whatever you know you basically get to
0:41:02do their own thing completely which is I
0:41:03think fine like you know because the
0:41:05Netflix series have done a good job of
0:41:06remaining like they're very
0:41:07geographically limited and so you feel
0:41:10like maybe the stuff there doesn't
0:41:12doesn't make the headlines as much
0:41:13worldwide necessarily yeah well that the
0:41:16Netflix shows have the sense to stay
0:41:18restrained in their power level that
0:41:21yeah it right there Monty and that's
0:41:24what I meant by arrow punching above its
0:41:25weight
0:41:26yeah most of the Netflix series stay
0:41:28within their presence of specific
0:41:31atmosphere
0:41:32yeah yeah I agree so let's try my agent
0:41:35Carter season 2 and final of agent
0:41:38Carter i but what people think of of
0:41:41this one I love the show
0:41:43yes seconded third fourth i lost count
0:41:46the motion carries okay shouldn't have
0:41:48gotten caso resolved it is by the
0:41:50uncomfortable that the agent Carter is
0:41:51good and thus cancelled
0:41:54to be fair it does require expensive
0:41:56vintage cars and cool out short out have
0:42:00to do a period TV show
0:42:01yeah which is fantastic by the way exist
0:42:04for a reason you can get all sorts of
0:42:05vintage crap for cheap on the internet
0:42:07like Marvel's agents of etsy would
0:42:10totally watch that show
0:42:11actually it's the best-looking TV show
0:42:14out there you know those people who make
0:42:16those those tactical uniforms that
0:42:18they're running around every week on
0:42:19agents of shield they totally have some
0:42:21mad craft skills they're probably
0:42:22secretly funding the organization
0:42:23through an etsy shop the agent Carter
0:42:25ratings weren't very good and I I
0:42:27totally get that although I i do wonder
0:42:29if this wouldn't have been a better
0:42:30netflix kind of show given the short run
0:42:32and the fact that it's a period piece
0:42:34and all of those things and I get why
0:42:35not everybody's gonna want to watch a
0:42:37period piece about a about a secret
0:42:39agent in the Marvel Universe but oh well
0:42:42I think it should have been a Netflix
0:42:44show i think that would have been great
0:42:45i think they did a lot of things right
0:42:47the season I thought the transplant to
0:42:48LA was a lot of fun
0:42:50it definitely like you know added some
0:42:53pep to the show there were some like
0:42:55conspiracy stuff going on Hayley Atwell
0:42:58is fantastic i really enjoyed James
0:43:01D'Arcy as well as
0:43:03Edmund Jarvis I liked his wife they had
0:43:06a lot of great supporting character
0:43:07named Whitney Frost was a fun villain
0:43:09like Howard Stark is awesome I really do
0:43:11enjoy him yeah he acquired by Howard
0:43:13Stark is gone now he's off somewhere
0:43:15else doing another comic book show
0:43:17yeah but they I mean there are a lot of
0:43:20great ingredients here I'm kind of one
0:43:22of those shows there are a lot of shows
0:43:23i watch and I'm like okay I can see why
0:43:25maybe that didn't catch on
0:43:26I'm kind of baffled by this one I think
0:43:28you know and Jason's reasons are as good
0:43:30as any for why that's the case but it
0:43:32does just seemed like this was far and
0:43:33away the best comic book show on
0:43:35broadcast when you told me the show got
0:43:37canceled and that Gotham was like the
0:43:41one of the more popular shows on the
0:43:42channel of him
0:43:43I thought you were like like this like
0:43:45this is a trick I'm being set up for
0:43:47some kind of all that time turning 40
0:43:51troll I what what is wrong with the
0:43:53world people look I believe that isn't
0:43:56it does not does not compute
0:43:58i will briefly say that I have finally
0:44:00forgiven the show for having a waitress
0:44:03who worked at an automat she I like that
0:44:08you they do a nice job of that one
0:44:09episode she's in a dream sequence yeah I
0:44:12actually really enjoyed that with the
0:44:13singing and the dancing it was fun like
0:44:16yeah the show was good i enjoyed the
0:44:18brief appearances of Dottie Underwood i
0:44:20love Dottie Underwood be so everytime up
0:44:22with her and having her still be County
0:44:25evil yeah great
0:44:26I just shows where is the green that's
0:44:28the fight choreography on agent Carter
0:44:31is the best fight choreography I'm say
0:44:34of the broadcast comic Claire you're
0:44:36always been asked i would agree with
0:44:37there you go there you go there you go
0:44:39they used to fight styles of each
0:44:41character to convey who they were when
0:44:44you had Peggy Carter fighting she's
0:44:47straightforward punches you in the face
0:44:49to grab something heavy she whacks you
0:44:51with it but then when she's facing daddy
0:44:53who was trained by the Black Widow
0:44:55school like the Tosh Romanov in the
0:44:57Avengers she's doing all sorts of weird
0:44:59flips and running up walls and stuff and
0:45:02I really like that thought was put into
0:45:05not just how do we make this fight look
0:45:06cool but how would each of these
0:45:08characters fight and we got like a
0:45:12Daniel
0:45:13got his last name now you know who's got
0:45:16like a cane and so has to let hit people
0:45:18with the cane
0:45:20I don't know yeah they do a really good
0:45:21job of tailoring all those scenes i
0:45:23really enjoyed the the episode where
0:45:25they have to break into the lab where
0:45:27the bomb is and they had they recruit
0:45:29sort of the terrible misfit like group
0:45:32of people because i can't tell anybody
0:45:33and so they've got like this the Science
0:45:36Guy and the secretary from the lakefront
0:45:40yeah when you mentioned fighting styles
0:45:42actually something that came to mind
0:45:43which is Marvel's daredevil which had
0:45:45season two on netflix which I think
0:45:47similarly did a good job at having sort
0:45:50of different fighting styles for
0:45:51different different characters also
0:45:53there were lots of ninjas boy
0:45:56yeah and-and-and some you know I i wear
0:46:00down now the TV podcast about daredevil
0:46:02is still going on so I don't want to
0:46:04give away any spoilers about how
0:46:05everything is going to feel about let's
0:46:07do it let's go ahead and spoil some
0:46:09things because you know Jason that you
0:46:11and I were going to talk about this
0:46:13yep we still are we're gonna it's gonna
0:46:15happen right we're gonna talk about you
0:46:17know daredevil I'm gonna say you know
0:46:20above most people i'm a big fan boy to
0:46:23daredevil so in my mind he can't do any
0:46:26wrong however this is season it's like
0:46:31I've been kind of shot through the heart
0:46:33to x by the punisher yeah that the
0:46:37punisher was probably one of the coolest
0:46:39things in this one which is so weird
0:46:42this and that's the sign over there like
0:46:44all the punisher is cool and he's right
0:46:45I agree yeah I agree
0:46:47the pleasure was handled with great care
0:46:49I thought and was way better than I
0:46:51thought because you you and I talked
0:46:52about how I i was i was really down on
0:46:55the idea of you know putting the
0:46:55punisher in here to me right is like the
0:46:58worst of nineties comics where it's like
0:46:59the celebration of nihilism and instead
0:47:01the way Jon Bernthal portrayed him the
0:47:03way that they wrote him he is exactly
0:47:05the punisher supposed to be which is a
0:47:07completely messed up guy who is not a
0:47:10not even really an antihero he is a
0:47:12villain but he sort of like trapped in
0:47:15his own villainy because of the terrible
0:47:16things that have happened to him and I
0:47:17thought they did a great job with that
0:47:18care and they didn't disguise it
0:47:20the adjacent you and I talked about this
0:47:22in person too and I think we came to
0:47:23consensus that magic and ninjas were
0:47:25kind of it
0:47:26nice boy though but the punisher I like
0:47:29that a lot
0:47:30I liked watching the law firm fall apart
0:47:33this year and i liked watching strong
0:47:35meaningful well it was it was a great
0:47:38break up though because you can see both
0:47:40sides of it i enjoyed how many people
0:47:43repeatedly called Matt Murdock out on
0:47:45his own his nonsense like Claire temple
0:47:47every single vs matt if you weren't such
0:47:49an idiot like I know and then he go into
0:47:52something dumb and I enjoyed i enjoyed
0:47:56froggies arc as little as they gave that
0:47:59character to do you know the stuff that
0:48:01he did was great especially his
0:48:02grappling with with you know the fact
0:48:04that Matt is kind of a Bacchus visual on
0:48:06take yeah I'm the only thing that
0:48:09doesn't ring true to me as Karen pages
0:48:11are over the course of the the season
0:48:13but I like that she was kind of quietly
0:48:16grappling with you know having shot
0:48:17somebody from season one all on her own
0:48:19right and i like that no matter what she
0:48:23does she's just fixated on making sure
0:48:25that the truth gets out there because in
0:48:27her mind the truth is what sets people
0:48:28free and it shall fight for that I'm
0:48:32sure we a lot of us being you know
0:48:34having worked in the journalism industry
0:48:35have some complaints about some of that
0:48:37arc over although I agree that the
0:48:39giving her something to do is good
0:48:43like that's something that's not just
0:48:44revolving around being a love interest I
0:48:46think that's I think that the diagram
0:48:49walls a good actress and I know that she
0:48:51gave her a lot of stuff to do in this
0:48:53season which is great but yeah it's
0:48:56tricky trying to navigate that because
0:48:58you have fundamentally a character who
0:49:00you've already explained is like well
0:49:02they're not really you know they're not
0:49:03qualified to be a lawyer
0:49:05maybe they could be a journalist and
0:49:07then like narrow definition of
0:49:08journalism that we have here
0:49:10ok but like he's a little weird but I I
0:49:15thought they handle it well i will also
0:49:16put a plug in because i really enjoy
0:49:18Scott Glenn as stick even though he's a
0:49:20triangle and utter asked you to daryl is
0:49:24terrible but I love him so much i see i
0:49:27think they I think they misused that
0:49:29character this year i like them last
0:49:31year this year i kinda i kinda I like
0:49:34the actor and i like i like his
0:49:35portrayal but I thought that they that
0:49:37he got dragged down in this whole morale
0:49:39massive like magic black star or
0:49:42whatever Black Sun fate ninja a big you
0:49:47know pit stealing blood from people
0:49:50making zombie ninjas and stuff like that
0:49:52which I i get that comes a lot of stuff
0:49:55is just must remind from the frank
0:49:56miller era of daredevil but uh I don't
0:50:00totally get especially given what we got
0:50:02last season which was really about you
0:50:04know the kingpin and it was about a
0:50:05criminal organization trying to trying
0:50:07to setup and and and Matt fighting them
0:50:10that this season 2 takes this turn with
0:50:14when electric comes on screen and you
0:50:16end up well for some good ninja fights i
0:50:18thought some of that I thought the the
0:50:20seat the fight where the ninjas surround
0:50:22the hospital was there was a pretty
0:50:24great sequence but magic ninjas endless
0:50:28supplies of magic ninjas is to me not
0:50:30with daredevil wasn't like it wasn't
0:50:32listed in the ingredients on the side of
0:50:33the box and I totally rejected it I just
0:50:36basically was like this is nonsense and
0:50:38even though i would totally accept
0:50:40zombie ninjas and a magic pit and some
0:50:44sort of chosen one that is happening in
0:50:47smay be some other show that sort of
0:50:49like set up that that's what it was
0:50:50about what if we were to call it like
0:50:52iron fist for example exactly exactly
0:50:54put in daredevil I'm like no no you
0:50:56don't get to do this you don't get to to
0:50:58just sort of sweep this out from under
0:51:00me and also like taking the punisher
0:51:04story and then and then just kind of
0:51:05pivoting into this I that that's the
0:51:07part that just I found really
0:51:09unfortunate i liked when the punisher
0:51:10went to prison and talk to talk to the
0:51:12kingpin and broke out of prison I
0:51:14thought that was all actually pretty
0:51:15awesome and when not really great to see
0:51:17Vincent D'Onofrio I thought that was
0:51:19really great but overlaying that last
0:51:21half of the season he got these magic
0:51:23ninjas and I just don't know I just
0:51:25don't have so many of them too many
0:51:27night of a million billion in July no I
0:51:29mean the tick was making fun of those
0:51:30comics 30 years ago and here it is they
0:51:34still did they still did it
0:51:36yes Stuart wellington in the Medusa
0:51:38configuration often cites you know you
0:51:42can have one ninja that's super powerful
0:51:44but as you add ninjas they get less
0:51:47power there's an equation you can do
0:51:49that it all it all works out that it's
0:51:51just ultimately when you
0:51:52500 ninjas those days the law of
0:51:54diminishing ninja return one thing i
0:51:56like about the zombie ninjas is it does
0:51:58explain why they're so bad and so easy
0:52:00to kill ya
0:52:00is that they're not there admit there's
0:52:02armies and their mother tricky format
0:52:04because he can't hear them
0:52:04yeah yes I've always been a huge fan of
0:52:07the hundred ninja to run into a scene
0:52:09after you just saw your 99 best pals get
0:52:12beat up by the hero the last guy who was
0:52:15like but I'm gonna get them i got they
0:52:17say they've softened him up for me also
0:52:19i like the ninjas fighting style because
0:52:21it's not a it's not honorable in some
0:52:24way to like everybody ganging up on the
0:52:25hero at once and kill him they wait and
0:52:29let like those guys got it I'll just
0:52:30stand back here and wait
0:52:32oh now they're all dead I guess it's my
0:52:34turn instead of just warming him and
0:52:36killing him which is also just trying a
0:52:37good job and just way to go
0:52:39yeah yeah it's really hard to fight as a
0:52:41group effectively but they're ninjas and
0:52:43should be good at that
0:52:44so what I'm saying season to appear
0:52:46devil not as good as season one that's
0:52:48my review that's right i'm not i'm not
0:52:49as negative on ninjas as Jason is but i
0:52:51agree that there
0:52:52yeah it does feel it was very bifurcated
0:52:55because the punisher stuff was so good
0:52:56and the ninja stuff was less good i
0:52:59actually thought the actress who played
0:53:01elector was pretty good i didn't think I
0:53:03think they had some problems with the
0:53:04stuff they wrote for her she's murder
0:53:06Pixie dream girl yeah I thought you died
0:53:09again I think the portrayal of her as
0:53:11opposed to the stuff that was written
0:53:13for her vs I thought the actress was
0:53:15very competent and did some great stone
0:53:18work I thought she was believable in
0:53:20what they refer I don't necessarily
0:53:21agree with the way that they took her
0:53:23character but you know that's that's
0:53:25another issue i liked how she vexes mad
0:53:28at the beginning when she comes back i
0:53:29think that was actually harkening back
0:53:31to some of the best stuff in season one
0:53:32where Matt is really challenged about
0:53:34are you gonna do this who are you going
0:53:36to be and and now he decides he's gonna
0:53:38be and she comes in and sort of upsets
0:53:40all of that I thought that initial
0:53:42interaction between them was really good
0:53:44but very rapidly becomes clear that
0:53:46she's just kind of a crazy person who's
0:53:48going to do crazy things
0:53:50she's the crazy ex-girlfriend if you
0:53:52will if only there were more musical
0:53:53numbers and it's not it's not good
0:53:57one of the things if there's a complaint
0:53:59to have about the the women on the show
0:54:01here i am making a woman cum
0:54:02is that there was just such a good girl
0:54:05bad girl thing going on between electra
0:54:09as though she's bad and she said she
0:54:10brings out Matt baser impulses and she
0:54:13disregards his morality and she pushes
0:54:15him to more and more extremes and
0:54:16encourages them to disregard society and
0:54:19then on the other side of that you've
0:54:21got others this beautiful blonde woman
0:54:22that I work with and I'm dating her and
0:54:24I don't want to have scrapped because
0:54:26this is the most beautiful pure thing in
0:54:27my life and partners a girl come on you
0:54:30know you don't need that the dichotomy
0:54:31doesn't have to be that sharp and clear
0:54:33temple navigated the beautiful and I
0:54:35understand what i don't understand why
0:54:36it had to be such a stark contrast like
0:54:39why electra wasn't allowed more grace
0:54:41and developments a person you know like
0:54:44early days would stick notwithstanding
0:54:45she seemed pretty stocking caricaturist
0:54:48to me also awesome and you know I I
0:54:54didn't I i get what she was supposed to
0:54:56do because she exists to propel Matt
0:54:59story forward and have him sever the
0:55:01ties to the street life he had set up
0:55:04with the law firm and have him you know
0:55:07decide well since work involves a mom I
0:55:09on this one and all that
0:55:10um I get she was supposed to push him to
0:55:12the next plateau and then season three
0:55:14is going to be presumably him figure out
0:55:15that's not working out so well for him
0:55:17but we don't get much of a sense of her
0:55:19as a person beyond that and and she and
0:55:22she's basically everything i do i'm
0:55:23doing because i have these feelings for
0:55:25you and I want you to feel this way and
0:55:26it's all for you Matthew and you just
0:55:27like really you're beautiful you're rich
0:55:30you're well connected and you literally
0:55:32have nothing better to do than to
0:55:33construct your entire inner life around
0:55:35your ex-boyfriend two more minutes is
0:55:37that what women do
0:55:38ok and nights what I don't know is
0:55:42elevated your life seems like it I can I
0:55:44give a quick thumbs up to my favorite
0:55:46supporting player of the season who was
0:55:48the Melvin Potter began their Devils
0:55:52armor
0:55:53I just really enjoy him hes bizarre
0:55:55character but I like him they reboot his
0:55:57armor was great i like Madame gal I
0:56:00cheered when Madame gal came back
0:56:02oh she said she's fun too I like her I
0:56:05loved all four scenes in season one I
0:56:07love to c 0
0:56:08have a question about daredevil not
0:56:10having watched this season or to be
0:56:12honest these last half of the first
0:56:14season
0:56:15shame on you I have a lot to do i
0:56:17understand there are some problems with
0:56:18the journalism in this show
0:56:20yes how does it rank compared to the
0:56:22journalism on flash and Supergirl it is
0:56:26more realistic than either of those i
0:56:28would say yeah i was gonna agree with
0:56:29that exception of the fact that you
0:56:31don't get an office like your first day
0:56:33on the job
0:56:34ya know well it's not it's not she
0:56:36doesn't get an office she gets been
0:56:38eurex old office that is still sort of
0:56:40the the shrine to the murdered
0:56:43oh sorry spoilers for season one there
0:56:46there don't want some girls they would
0:56:49have had a shrine for 15 minutes and
0:56:51then like three top industry moved in
0:56:52there so they could talk smack about
0:56:54people's grammar they don't have the
0:56:55money in journalism to leave in office
0:56:57empty as a shrine that is not a thing
0:56:59that anyone is doing its basically
0:57:01closet but anyway I but it's still more
0:57:03realistic than either Supergirl or grief
0:57:07or arrow so let's talk about or flash so
0:57:09let's talk about Supergirl then we're
0:57:11going to move on to some new shows here
0:57:12at the end
0:57:13Supergirl on the sauna on CBS but and
0:57:17everybody said hey that's weird why
0:57:19would that be MCW and then at the end of
0:57:20the season CBS said hey that's weird why
0:57:23doesn't it go to the CW and so it will
0:57:26be on the CW this fall
0:57:27dear greg berlanti we've noticed that
0:57:30she's not solving a murder every single
0:57:32episode please fix or we're sending you
0:57:34to the CW love CBS yep that's pretty
0:57:36much it so super girlfriend seems weird
0:57:38fantasy VII don't know i think they
0:57:40wanted to try it and just see what would
0:57:42happen and the fact is it got better
0:57:44ratings than any show on the CW and it
0:57:46it will be interesting to see how its
0:57:48ratings hold up
0:57:49it may have been a brilliant way to
0:57:50launch CW show put it put it on CBS for
0:57:53a year and then make the audience finds
0:57:54on the other network
0:57:55I don't know is that true it got better
0:57:58it got better rating as supergirls
0:58:00ratings and numerically our heart were
0:58:03low for CBS but they were higher than
0:58:04any individual show on the CW CW is not
0:58:07a very popular network yeah it's crazy
0:58:09but the big three networks still matter
0:58:12somehow yeah
0:58:14there are people who are not watching
0:58:15superhero stuff how's that possible i
0:58:17know it is well now CW's got a god they
0:58:20may have changed into the superhero
0:58:21channel because they're gonna have a
0:58:22superhero stuff on it and basically
0:58:24every night of the week when people
0:58:26think of a of Supergirl I'm i will give
0:58:29I'll give up my thumbnail sketch which
0:58:31is I felt like it took a while for it to
0:58:33find its way but it still had a sunny
0:58:35innocent fun quality throughout that the
0:58:40flash had in season one that I really
0:58:41like I don't care it i don't think it
0:58:43emerges fully formed as the flash I
0:58:45think it really struggled to figure out
0:58:47what I wanted to be they made they
0:58:48introduced a whole bunch of stuff in the
0:58:50pilot that they spent the entire first
0:58:51year walking back and figuring out how
0:58:54to break so that they could go somewhere
0:58:55else but i think the last half of it for
0:58:58me it really started to shape up and
0:59:01they started to figure out what the what
0:59:02the show wanted to be in it and it ended
0:59:04a lot stronger than it started
0:59:05that's my can i say i did have my my
0:59:08fanboy freakout came when they act like
0:59:10they actually were like oh my god you're
0:59:11actually going to make this hand cannon
0:59:14shot character jon jones yeah yeah yeah
0:59:17mr. and I was like oh my god you're
0:59:18actually going to do this this is
0:59:19amazing i was one of the things they
0:59:21walk back right now because you're
0:59:22supposed to be a villain and they just
0:59:23changed it and they're like this isn't
0:59:25work they like to I think they like
0:59:26David Harewood to good actor totally
0:59:29boring character in a total who works in
0:59:30a totally boring place the government's
0:59:32the de 0 which is the most boring thing
0:59:34and and they like they spent the whole
0:59:38season like extracting characters from
0:59:40the stupid do because it was dumb and
0:59:43that should never have done it and they
0:59:45saved that actor from playing that
0:59:48stupid character and said how about you
0:59:50be the Martian Manhunter instead
0:59:51alright yeah let's do that was also
0:59:54smart move because it gives way to
0:59:56connect to Cara and the way to connect
0:59:58to Alex
0:59:58to Alex
1:00:00cuz he and Alex happy analysis of the
1:00:02professional relationship Jacqueline and
1:00:04then the deeper ties because he's
1:00:05responsible for this is watching out
1:00:06from but here in cars are are basically
1:00:09you know refugees in the strange world
1:00:12and they they have a peer-to-peer
1:00:14relationship that Alex is never going to
1:00:16have and I enjoy that differentiation
1:00:19comes out on screen and it allows for
1:00:21two different types of relationships to
1:00:23happen even when there's three people
1:00:24around I'd say he's all he's almost like
1:00:26a mentor to both of them to which which
1:00:28gives you that flash mentor feel a
1:00:30little bit and and more than that like
1:00:32he's a mentor in a way that they sort of
1:00:34sub him in for a lot of places where
1:00:36they I guess they could sort of head
1:00:37Superman but they didn't really didn't
1:00:39want to do Superman in the first side
1:00:41and so they have him filling that role
1:00:44in a lot of places like hey I'm a
1:00:45powered guy who's been around the block
1:00:47a little bit and like I can sort of you
1:00:49know helped lead you and i'm down this
1:00:51path or whatever but I'm not Superman so
1:00:53you don't have to like there's not like
1:00:55so much of a shadow cast their right but
1:00:57yeah I like that I guess a in apparently
1:01:01this is where all the writing team
1:01:03female characters went to because the
1:01:05show meet with good female character yes
1:01:08oh my god i love cat Grants so much and
1:01:10every time some people's out of her
1:01:12mouth
1:01:12I'm just clapping my hands into like it
1:01:14could have been so bad and it's not like
1:01:16like the writing is good Calista
1:01:18Flockhart is great it's a great
1:01:20character
1:01:21well I feel like she's been waiting her
1:01:22whole career to be old enough to play
1:01:24this side of the character
1:01:26yeah which is the best part about it and
1:01:29and it it started weird it started weird
1:01:32and I wasn't totally convinced and then
1:01:36I watched it with my daughters and I
1:01:40realized this show has legs and should
1:01:43be a top-tier show
1:01:46yeah yeah i agree they made a lot of
1:01:50good course corrections the flash
1:01:52crossover episode was delightful goofy
1:01:54and fun like a basket of adorable
1:01:57puppies it's so great hills it was just
1:02:00like it was like this is the superhero
1:02:02team-up that I wanted to see like screw
1:02:04that Batman since you can i tell you i
1:02:05save that episode of my tivo it's still
1:02:08on my tivo and I just I just watch it
1:02:09sometimes when I'm feeling down because
1:02:11it is just a right
1:02:12of sunshine that episode let's in the
1:02:15flash to other shows he's worked great
1:02:16on the cross races done so far yeah I I
1:02:19just you know when what what do we use
1:02:21our superpowers for the answer is to get
1:02:23ice cream
1:02:24fantastic just yeah just super speed i
1:02:27can get the ice cream back and won't
1:02:28even be melted all right let's do that
1:02:30just just amazing so I Superman came up
1:02:34and i wanted to i want to mention i
1:02:36actually think Superman was one of the
1:02:38great problems of Supergirl this year
1:02:39because they didn't want to do the show
1:02:41and not talk about Superman because the
1:02:43premise of Supergirl is that she's his
1:02:44cousin and all that so they talk about
1:02:46him and they show him like in silhouette
1:02:48and there's like a cgi Superman at one
1:02:50point and there's a blur of a Superman a
1:02:52lot of long i am instant messaging lot
1:02:55instant messaging a lot of texts with
1:02:56Clark right which I I felt like the show
1:03:00got better again better as they went
1:03:01along at first I felt was like almost
1:03:04almost like we talked about the bechdel
1:03:05test and you know women women but
1:03:07they're not talking about themselves are
1:03:08talking about men
1:03:09I almost felt like Supergirl started out
1:03:11as failing that own a test about herself
1:03:13like it was all about Superman is like
1:03:15guys it is not his show
1:03:17stop talking about your cousin and they
1:03:20got better at it and I think they did a
1:03:22pretty good job but it was just really
1:03:23weird that he that he was kind of
1:03:24hovering over them for so much like they
1:03:26had to explain why he wasn't involved
1:03:29I don't know what to take the the rumor
1:03:31is or the the news is that they are
1:03:33going to do they're gonna cast somebody
1:03:35and have Superman at least as a
1:03:38recurring character in season two
1:03:41Supergirl I don't know I disagree I
1:03:43disagree i don't know i think I I feel
1:03:45like that would be better than the limbo
1:03:47state where you where he's there but not
1:03:50there i think you almost need to just
1:03:51have don't mention Superman or he needs
1:03:54to show up but you can't have it be like
1:03:56what I wasn't easy excuse of it like in
1:03:58the finale where it looks super man he's
1:04:00finally coming to help us
1:04:01oh wait he's been brainwashed with
1:04:02everybody else was terrible
1:04:05that was yes that was a very clear like
1:04:08okay we need to have this acknowledge
1:04:10and yet we also need to take him off the
1:04:11board because otherwise he'll just fix
1:04:13everything and and that's a problem and
1:04:16I i agree with Jason wholeheartedly
1:04:18there so i think the the answer is um
1:04:20show up for a couple episodes at the
1:04:21beginning of next season then he needs
1:04:23to go deal with some stuff like offworld
1:04:25is likely not going to
1:04:26space q I go to space car I trust you
1:04:29take care of stuff while I'm gone and
1:04:31i'll be back at some point and maybe
1:04:32even pop in later in the season to be
1:04:34like everything cool here great and go
1:04:35back to space or we could have Cara
1:04:37accidentally fall through a wormhole and
1:04:39end up in the arrow purse yeah where the
1:04:41cameraman my oh my gosh yes the whole
1:04:44building trails through yeah we need cat
1:04:46as well to definitely yeah sure maybe a
1:04:48bit me
1:04:49or maybe this will be like some mando
1:04:50crossover where it turns out that
1:04:51Barry's erasing his own timeline river
1:04:55breaks up and down different earths and
1:04:56care all of a sudden they get knocked in
1:04:5920 think these are submerged been
1:05:01basically there's no topple gaggers like
1:05:04there are other circuits I don't miss
1:05:06that always advocate the whole shipper
1:05:08perspective but let me put it this way
1:05:09if Cara and Barry just ended up the
1:05:12instead of Karen are a berry entirety I
1:05:14feel like we'd all be okay with that i
1:05:17am well that's that's like Felicity
1:05:18level of chemistry to wear like oh these
1:05:20two actors were both actually both were
1:05:23even shared scenes together on Glee
1:05:25Grant Gustin and most of the noise day
1:05:28they they they been on TV together
1:05:30before and boy they really do have a
1:05:32great connection that they don't have
1:05:35with other people on their shows let's
1:05:37put it that way so i would like to
1:05:39briefly distance myself from my own my
1:05:40own idea okay I don't think Supergirl
1:05:43works if Superman isn't in the universe
1:05:46degree bigger I want her to be trying to
1:05:49live up to and I'll attainable ID he
1:05:51just needs to either be way further in
1:05:53the background or they need to move into
1:05:55the foreground enough to explain them
1:05:56away and i hope that they do next season
1:05:58is is like he is because before it was
1:06:00like well we don't have understood the
1:06:03way I understand is they cut the
1:06:04candidate him permission to use Superman
1:06:06and so they could talk about them but
1:06:08they but they couldn't cast a person as
1:06:11him and apparently something happened
1:06:13maybe Batman vs Superman I don't know
1:06:15when they're like yeah that's fine your
1:06:17that's a totally different world just
1:06:18you know yeah if you wanna have Superman
1:06:19is a recurring go ahead because it's
1:06:21tough to live up to him it's tough to
1:06:23live up to him when we have no idea like
1:06:25this show is predicated on the idea that
1:06:27we all know who Superman is right like
1:06:29and it's tough to to get an idea when
1:06:31you're like I don't know which version
1:06:32like yeah who is this person she's
1:06:35trying to live up to it is it is it the
1:06:36community action comics version is
1:06:39Henry Cavill is it Brandon route is it
1:06:41Christopher Reeve like there's lots of
1:06:43different versions sort of wish it would
1:06:45be brand around people just keep looking
1:06:46at present I was like it's a lot like
1:06:48someone else we did not agree well I
1:06:50know if I can be hilarious
1:06:52oh yeah I would I would I would go for
1:06:54that or you know they're there are a
1:06:56bunch of good actors that they could
1:06:57cast a Superman that would be hilarious
1:06:59bit of casting but I i think i think
1:07:02that it is a Gotham problem to which is
1:07:04alternate like to it was really be
1:07:07Supergirl and and and we get Jimmy Olsen
1:07:10but then we get like Lois Lane's sister
1:07:13and we're going to get like I think next
1:07:14season we're gonna get lex luthor sister
1:07:16and all that it's like Superman drop-in
1:07:18have Lois Lane drop in and talk to Jimmy
1:07:20for an episode and kind of upset the
1:07:22apple cart and leave again I would like
1:07:24them to take those Superman characters
1:07:25and kinda rifle them through and then
1:07:28move them along right i think that would
1:07:29be fine i think that would be okay how
1:07:31about eliminate Superman altogether and
1:07:34just let her be her
1:07:36what do you Lex Luthor all of a sudden
1:07:38yes sudden not something I guess that's
1:07:42sort of what I'm saying is you bring you
1:07:44actually cast Superman so you can bring
1:07:46them on and then send him away and stop
1:07:48talking about him like we saw in he was
1:07:51here we had some good times and then he
1:07:54left and let's never speak of him again
1:07:56he can just just a sticky note it says
1:07:58you know I'm gonna go to space yeah it's
1:08:01not you it's to prevent the kind of had
1:08:05the same problem arrow did where you
1:08:07want to make references to other comic
1:08:09books but if you accidentally say you
1:08:11know like that nutcase over and
1:08:12Bludhaven or you can call yourself
1:08:14oracle that's taken and all of a sudden
1:08:17that implies way more things about your
1:08:19universe and you're prepared to deal
1:08:20with I didn't bother me on the arrow
1:08:22thing just because I figured it was just
1:08:23a joke for for nerds like us we are all
1:08:26arrow backed away from it they didn't
1:08:28keep dwelling on it was super girl we
1:08:31want to talk about Superman yeah right
1:08:33captain Superman too much what's going
1:08:36on right uh okay we got a couple more
1:08:39than I want to cover before we before we
1:08:41wrap and we got it we got a I don't want
1:08:44to end on a negative note so we're going
1:08:46to do
1:08:46legends of tomorrow first alright
1:08:49that's a positive
1:08:52alright legends of tomorrow is next on
1:08:54the docket who will speak for legends of
1:08:57tomorrow Tony Williams legends of
1:08:59tomorrow
1:08:59no I'm writing the prosecution oh it's a
1:09:03it's a court case is it oh I can be the
1:09:05judge as i watched none of it I I will
1:09:08do I will do some defendant guilty
1:09:10beyond a lot not a lot I think you can
1:09:13defend individual elements of it like I
1:09:15really liked with flowers performance in
1:09:17it I like caity lotz I'm yes yes imagine
1:09:20if they were on other shows
1:09:22Oh like I know right they should be it's
1:09:24just there they were like approximately
1:09:2652 many legends of tomorrow and
1:09:29repositories worse than useless and then
1:09:32you have Martin Donovan has already
1:09:33shown up in late you have Martin Donovan
1:09:36acting all evil and I'm like but imagine
1:09:38a world where there was no legends of
1:09:40tomorrow and you got three more Captain
1:09:42Cold episodes in the season of flash
1:09:44better better world you know when the
1:09:47class soon as you find a nice gun the
1:09:49person who has run to it thesaurus and
1:09:51start learning all of the words for cold
1:09:54because that's all you talk about the
1:09:55rest of my maybe Leonard snart had a lot
1:09:58of lonely friday nights and already knew
1:10:00all the words because he had nothing
1:10:01better to do you know you one of the few
1:10:04things i enjoy from the season all
1:10:05agreed with many of the things Lisa just
1:10:07said but i do think that they took Mick
1:10:10Rory for my character that I could not
1:10:11yes about to an actually interesting and
1:10:14very cool character who I dig Domonic
1:10:17Brown really came a long way from the
1:10:19just like I'm stupid and like me and
1:10:21just want to burn things it's like well
1:10:23that's a hard cut its a very
1:10:24one-dimensional character and it worked
1:10:25fine on his few flash appearances but
1:10:27like how do you have a character like
1:10:29Captain Cold you can kind of see why
1:10:30he's like maybe decides to like join up
1:10:33with these guys but it made no sense for
1:10:35heat wave to be there and so I think
1:10:37they did a nice job of the chrono stuff
1:10:39and with the time masters like
1:10:40brainwashing him and all that I actually
1:10:42really enjoyed that that was one of the
1:10:44few things about the season I was like
1:10:45wholeheartedly thumbs up on agree I
1:10:49agree at least thing they did right by
1:10:50him i want to point out so the the
1:10:53showrunner for legends of tomorrow to
1:10:55the interview where people asked him
1:10:57about the fact that the time travel in
1:10:59his time travel show doesn't follow any
1:11:01consistent rules and makes no sense
1:11:03and his response was basically to say oh
1:11:05you know people complain about stuff and
1:11:08those people are not having fun and they
1:11:11should you know that people are like
1:11:13looking for things to complain about
1:11:14and I thought this is everything that's
1:11:16wrong with legends of tomorrow because
1:11:18this this is the showrunner of a show
1:11:20that's about time travel and look
1:11:22time travel is totally made up and
1:11:23ridiculous I you can you can make up
1:11:26whatever crazy rules you want but if
1:11:28your show does it about time travel
1:11:30doesn't have rules it also doesn't have
1:11:32steaks it doesn't have internal
1:11:34consistency and that means it doesn't
1:11:37have any drama because you're just
1:11:38watching like flashing lights on a
1:11:40screen at that point and that his
1:11:42writings of came about and why should we
1:11:44exactly and it shows it shows in legends
1:11:47of tomorrow you can decide to change
1:11:49your time-travel I mean doctor who is
1:11:51not always the most consistent about its
1:11:54rules for time travel but like I was not
1:11:56know that cow it is very definitively
1:11:59not but it tries to have a framework
1:12:00that makes sense right in and win in
1:12:02episodes where that is a central exactly
1:12:05they work hard to make it work and so I
1:12:07think there's a couple places in here
1:12:09where it goes okay I enjoyed ray and
1:12:13kendra being stuck in the 50 i love them
1:12:15that's my favorite episode yeah and Ray
1:12:17having trouble like we had a life like
1:12:19how can you just decide to go back to
1:12:21this like and just like turn it off like
1:12:22that i thought was good consequences to
1:12:25that but you're right that's so much
1:12:26other stuff in here does not make a
1:12:27difference i will agree with that to
1:12:29this extent
1:12:30doctor who throws its rules out at the
1:12:32drop of a hat but it knows what it's
1:12:34doing that gives you just on the hand
1:12:36way to say i know we normally can't ever
1:12:39do this we're doing at this time we've
1:12:40got five doctors deal with it here we're
1:12:42not looking for rigorous like yeah
1:12:45tested time-travel logic here i would i
1:12:47would take but when when the court
1:12:49conceded the show is a guy is trying to
1:12:52save his family by going back in time
1:12:54and stopping got another guy and yet
1:12:57even like within the episodes about that
1:13:00story it's unclear how that would happen
1:13:03or where that would happen or why that
1:13:05would happen and it never becomes clear
1:13:07it's never really resolved to anybody
1:13:09satisfaction about why any of that
1:13:11happen
1:13:12you know you just tossed like like sort
1:13:14of like the flash this season you just
1:13:15kind of toss your whole season long
1:13:17premise away without with a hand wave
1:13:20and it makes for like religious tomorrow
1:13:22I just kept wondering like what are the
1:13:24stakes here and it was never clear the
1:13:26worst is when Sarah wants to go back and
1:13:27save her sister and there's no hole like
1:13:30this is why you can it's like this
1:13:31doesn't like that is letter to me was
1:13:33like did you do you watching the show
1:13:35do you know what the show is about we
1:13:37can do we can't do that because
1:13:38contracts
1:13:40yeah just in time to save your wife and
1:13:44child but nobody that you pick to help
1:13:45save your wife and child can actually
1:13:47see their loved ones got it you hunter
1:13:49you're worse he's the horse like you're
1:13:52literally is the worst Eli's been
1:13:54constantly he has no understanding of
1:13:55Team Dynamics he has no leadership
1:13:57skills whatsoever he has no planning
1:14:00he doesn't listen to the people that are
1:14:01gonna log I i just kept actively ready
1:14:03for him to get killed he just he's got a
1:14:05stolen spaceship and and and a fancy gun
1:14:08that's that so he's basically a
1:14:10sixteen-year-old his boost the parents
1:14:12car on a friday night like what's up
1:14:15that would have been that would have
1:14:16been interesting because that's like
1:14:17your doctor who promised there would
1:14:18likely be fair to be fair
1:14:20his parents are an evil corrupt time
1:14:22agents Nicholson yeah I i really do like
1:14:24Arthur Darvill and I think it's a damn
1:14:26shame that they didn't give him yes sir
1:14:28who made sense in any way and he's he's
1:14:31he's a good actor and he's charming and
1:14:33he can do the sort of rakish like Time
1:14:36Master thing but like his I will take
1:14:38your word for it because none of that
1:14:39was on evidence i know but his yeah
1:14:41you're right that his motivations make
1:14:43no sense his plot makes no sense his
1:14:45character is awful and and see all the
1:14:47things you listed are totally correct
1:14:49Lisa but III can't lay that having seen
1:14:51him you know in several seasons of
1:14:53Doctor Who and on broadchurch and a
1:14:55bunch of other stuff he's a good actor
1:14:57he really just was not given any any
1:15:00sensible material to work with here
1:15:02because this is the only thing i've seen
1:15:03him in so I'm just like me the same
1:15:05reason perhaps the cement John wonder
1:15:08that played hawkman is fantastic and
1:15:10whatever else you are whatever Germany
1:15:12soap opera he was in when they find ya
1:15:14like that the the whole hawkman hawkgirl
1:15:17thing makes no sense whatsoever and then
1:15:20the season finale when she's like we're
1:15:21just gonna hang out here and
1:15:23and and just be together and do cock
1:15:26things for a while and I was like girl
1:15:28no no you don't know this man from from
1:15:30a glass of milk you had a life with Ray
1:15:33who clearly adores you and this is the
1:15:34hot man from the future who they've
1:15:36brought back it doesn't know kendra is
1:15:39like one of the most poorly served
1:15:40characters in the sense that she's like
1:15:42the linchpin to all these plots she gets
1:15:44to be the object of romantic interest
1:15:46and she literally doesn't have a thought
1:15:47in her head that somebody else hasn't
1:15:48put their or motivation everybody is
1:15:50constant from episode to episode it's it
1:15:52was just really frustrating watching her
1:15:54be treated like that and it was also
1:15:56super frustrating that the show begins
1:15:58with an older white man drugging and
1:16:01kidnapping young black man and somehow
1:16:03like this
1:16:03this forced conscription into my feet
1:16:06are like this guide wants is never
1:16:08addressed either Lisa does this deserve
1:16:11Susan too does the shower is my rant i
1:16:15will accept the ramp in season two but
1:16:19do they deserve a shot at season 2i
1:16:22thought they were going to scrap
1:16:23everything and it was gonna be a whole
1:16:25new ensemble so yeah I'll take a
1:16:27complete teardown yeah yeah but no
1:16:29apparently they're bringing a bunch of
1:16:31people back there doing the sleeper it's
1:16:33a 50-percent tear down at least I mean
1:16:35they're not bringing Vandal Savage back
1:16:37right right
1:16:37no no yeah maybe the Hawks aren't coming
1:16:40back I don't know though the Hawks are
1:16:42not the Hawks are not coming back i
1:16:43think i think they are gone which is
1:16:45good he should cast like some
1:16:46professional wrestler vandal savages you
1:16:49need to be like a big huge guy even if
1:16:50he was a much worse actor
1:16:52yeah that was good wait is that possible
1:16:56free i mean like i think they had a bye
1:16:58if they had a professional wrestler like
1:17:00reading off the cue cards okay making
1:17:02eye contact with the camera i feel like
1:17:03the show would have been about twenty
1:17:04percent better i have breaking news
1:17:07yes most you have you have news for us
1:17:08to show sucks
1:17:11ya know guilty guilty is so ruled so
1:17:16ordered
1:17:16LT legislation marel I was so excited
1:17:19about it and it was really bad
1:17:21it also can we mention just how cheap it
1:17:24looks like area
1:17:25come on line one ah there were so many
1:17:28guys who are just wearing like
1:17:29motorcycle jackets who are supposed to
1:17:31be like look like Times greatest killer
1:17:33to stop at the gap first I guess it's
1:17:37like that that npc doesn't even have to
1:17:39be compensated they spent a lot of money
1:17:41on that spaceship that Jason really
1:17:43disliked it's a superhero show
1:17:45first off it you think it's a show
1:17:47populated by superheroes but they're
1:17:49never allowed to be super because it's
1:17:52too expensive and so they don't use
1:17:55their powers and and so at that point
1:17:57why is it not just a time-travel show
1:17:59with regular people and why why have you
1:18:01populated with superheroes who can't use
1:18:04their powers like firestorm is really
1:18:06awesome and I thought oh I'll show with
1:18:07firestorm would be really fun
1:18:09firestorm gets to be firestorm like
1:18:11three times over the course of the
1:18:13season i would if i if I'm répondre
1:18:15which obviously I'm overqualified
1:18:17uh-huh i would handcuff those two
1:18:20together because it's like no you guys
1:18:22don't have to stand in different rooms
1:18:23you don't get to get into the little
1:18:25station while he stays here it's like
1:18:26know you guys like you eat together you
1:18:28sleep together and you firestorm
1:18:29together yes I waste a lot of money i
1:18:32would give up my kids college tuition
1:18:34for you to be rip hunter you know how
1:18:38I've got the jacket already you'll be
1:18:41legends let's end on what I think is it
1:18:43going to be a more positive note which
1:18:46is adjusted just a touch base on another
1:18:50netflix series jessica jones which we
1:18:53get TV series about the lean put
1:18:55together there's of the bunch of
1:18:57episodes about it and this 1i I i
1:19:01thought that this one actually set the
1:19:03bar a lot higher for daredevil and I
1:19:05think they're double didn't clear its
1:19:06own bar for season one I thought yeah I
1:19:09thought that jessica jones i was excited
1:19:11by it after I read the comic when I
1:19:13heard there was going to be a TV show i
1:19:14read the comic and I think they did a
1:19:17great job I think jessica jones was a
1:19:18real surprise for me about just how much
1:19:20I i liked it when people think I loved
1:19:23it Krysten Ritter has been a favorite of
1:19:25mine
1:19:26I know what this sounds like but don't
1:19:28trust the B in apartment 23
1:19:30I love that show so much really funny
1:19:33and she's so much fun on it
1:19:35oh she's so
1:19:36smart and funny guy she was great on
1:19:38breaking bad so I was really looking
1:19:39forward to her here and you don't see a
1:19:42superhero who's afraid that much and
1:19:45she's playing fear and PTSD so well
1:19:49through so much of that series i've
1:19:52heard especially this year and last year
1:19:56and I i hesitate to use the term which
1:19:59is called agency i don't like it and I
1:20:03don't like the word strong male strong
1:20:05female we don't use that term very often
1:20:08i think that gets misunderstood because
1:20:09i think what the intent of a lot of
1:20:12people discussing that is saying this is
1:20:13a strong character in the sense that
1:20:15this is a three-dimensional character
1:20:17not necessarily this hour and
1:20:18emotionally or physically strong but
1:20:19they are well drawn although jessica
1:20:21jones to be fair is physically extremely
1:20:23strong and does her thing her superpower
1:20:26is opening locked doors and also broke
1:20:28ass
1:20:29yes generally very broken character is
1:20:31which is great as a character
1:20:35yeah yeah agreed a hundred percent at
1:20:37the same time I feel bad because my
1:20:41girls can't watch that one
1:20:44no no never met but it is it is so great
1:20:49to see when we meet jessica jones she's
1:20:52a disaster and we learn as we go
1:20:56why she's a disaster speaking of shows
1:20:59with great village
1:21:00yeah i was going to do maybe on it kills
1:21:02it this show is ruined david tennant for
1:21:05me I just need any money and like I've
1:21:07seen him a lot of things before this
1:21:08broad Church and Doctor Who of course
1:21:10but now when I see him another stuff
1:21:11especially things where he does voices
1:21:13for animated characters like I can't I
1:21:16can't deal with anything
1:21:17kilgrave yeah he's just he's good he's
1:21:20gonna be kill great for a long time so
1:21:22he plays like a like a a wacky cyborg in
1:21:25the ninja turtles cartoon it's like no I
1:21:28can't deal with you as a wacky the
1:21:30reasons i like Supergirl so much is
1:21:32because you've got the car Alex
1:21:34relationship where there are each other
1:21:35sisters and do his best friends and it
1:21:39reminds me a lot of the jessica Patsy
1:21:41relationship which to me was the beating
1:21:43heart of the show like hundred it's
1:21:45great that it's great that she and Luke
1:21:46Cage
1:21:47are are splendidly matched you know in
1:21:50the bedroom Anderson chemistry by the
1:21:52way in terms of castor and he's such a
1:21:53racy great casting michael white culture
1:21:55so red and he's handsome
1:21:57oh my gosh but the beating heart of the
1:21:58show is is the fact that Jessica loves
1:22:00Patsy and would do anything for her and
1:22:03the feeling is more than mutual and
1:22:05those two girls save each other's lives
1:22:06over and over and over again and the
1:22:08whole show is about love and connection
1:22:09and i adore it for that reason it's the
1:22:13first time
1:22:14Marvel TV property or actions even the
1:22:17first property in the MCU that's really
1:22:18gotten female relationships right I that
1:22:22show i watch probably way too much of it
1:22:24in like one sitting at a couple times
1:22:26and like the dreams you get after that
1:22:28let me tell you this is some seriously
1:22:29crazy so it's super creepy like and I
1:22:33thought just so effectively done some
1:22:36great portrayals I really like you know
1:22:39my only I feel like I you know I had
1:22:41seen carrie-anne moss and a bunch of
1:22:43things over the years especially the
1:22:44matrix i always thought she was one of
1:22:46the one most underserved characters in
1:22:48that entire franchise and she's just
1:22:51phenomenal here i really enjoyed her
1:22:54character than and yeah I look forward
1:22:56to see more of her in an iron fist but I
1:22:59i think that she's great in her
1:23:00relationship with Jessica and her own
1:23:02personal screwed-up life and all this
1:23:05like again you get a lot of characters
1:23:06who do things that make sense even when
1:23:10that throws wrenches into like the plans
1:23:12of our of our heroes like well yeah this
1:23:15is this is kind of what happens when you
1:23:17don't like people don't believe you or
1:23:19when you don't fully explain what's
1:23:20going on and it's just how is this was
1:23:24just a fantastic show from starts
1:23:26weirdly hopeful when you think about it
1:23:28because even though there are so many
1:23:29people in such desperate straits they
1:23:32all keep trying and they keep trying to
1:23:34connect with each other and they keep
1:23:36and they keep trying to become better
1:23:38people and they keep trying and they
1:23:40keep hoping and and pushing towards the
1:23:42hope that things will get better and
1:23:44it's an odd thing to say about a show
1:23:46that has one of the darkest ethics i can
1:23:48remember like it in daredevil are kind
1:23:49of neck and neck for like how many dark
1:23:51might seems can you have or things are
1:23:53dripping
1:23:54but it is one of it like it's hard it's
1:23:57it's just a very hopeful show and a very
1:24:00warm show in some ways yeah what I like
1:24:02about it is that it was willing to take
1:24:04kilgrave say here is a monster and then
1:24:07spend a few episodes later in the season
1:24:09saying and this is how he became that
1:24:11way and now you're starting to feel some
1:24:14sympathy for him and no actually still
1:24:17all monster now because they talk about
1:24:19choices and agency it's all like this is
1:24:22precisely what makes kilgrave so bad is
1:24:24he makes poor choices and because it is
1:24:25fortresses he doesn't want anyone else
1:24:27to have any choices at all
1:24:28yeah but we we get to learn why he is
1:24:30the way he is but he's still amounts to
1:24:32a decision such a hard episode i do want
1:24:34to give a I really thought that I'm a
1:24:36kedar ville echo darvill no relation to
1:24:39Arthur Darvill presumably who put his
1:24:40Malcolm the the junkie i hope that
1:24:43storyline was amazing just because that
1:24:46that moment when you realize like not
1:24:48only is he like been spying on her
1:24:50because he's been mind-controlled to a
1:24:53certain extent but also like he just he
1:24:55turned him into a junkie like that was
1:24:58just because heartbreaking right it's
1:25:00just heartbreaking because now because
1:25:02he could but because it served his ends
1:25:04you know like oh now I don't even have
1:25:06to mind control my just you know making
1:25:07dependent on something else and I just
1:25:10thought that guy did a fantastic
1:25:11fantastic job
1:25:13yeah he was the neighbor I liked yeah
1:25:15let's not speak of the other and talk
1:25:18about 24 okay yeah let's ignore the
1:25:20twins for another choice
1:25:22yeah she was acting a completely
1:25:24different series everyone else their
1:25:26depiction of New York City apartment
1:25:27buildings little too real
1:25:29yeah this is it supposed to be like
1:25:33Seinfeld or friends or something
1:25:35why don't they all have beautiful large
1:25:36spacious apartments that are tastefully
1:25:38decorated that's why wasn't it the other
1:25:40way
1:25:41yes I draw the line at New York
1:25:43apartments so yeah I'm super looking
1:25:46forward to the luke cage so yes yes you
1:25:49can regress alright well we're going to
1:25:51wrap the superhero TV season there are
1:25:54more superhero shows oh god there are
1:25:56always more superhero
1:25:58Tom so I'm sure we'll be back and see
1:26:02many more of them next year but that's
1:26:05that's all that's all for this year
1:26:06mixed mix crop that always happens i'd
1:26:09like to thank my panelists for joining
1:26:11me to talk about the bounty of superhero
1:26:15related TV shows
1:26:16did Morgan thanks for being here was a
1:26:18great pleasure I'm sure we'll talk about
1:26:20many many superheroes next so many
1:26:22superheroes films lack most thanks for
1:26:26being here
1:26:26I'm so thrilled and we've spent two
1:26:29hours talking about super I know I know
1:26:33almost almost and we could have could
1:26:34have done for another two probably Lisa
1:26:36Schmeisser thank you and look forward to
1:26:39the day they make the show about us
1:26:40talking about superheroes to know you
1:26:42and then we'll talk about and somebody
1:26:43will talk about it won't be as Monte
1:26:45Ashley thank you
1:26:46spoon okay solid and Tony sindelar
1:26:51thanks for being here
1:26:52goodbye Jason goodbye Tony and goodbye
1:26:55to everybody out there listening on the
1:26:57uncomfortable
1:26:58we'll be back again next week
1:26:59[Music]
1:27:01and there's about 20 minutes of extra
1:27:05material and outtakes from this
1:27:06recording session in the bonus track for
1:27:09members go to the incomparable calm /
1:27:11members to sign up