0:00:06the incomparable contest number 60 every
0:00:10october twenty LM welcome back to the
0:00:16uncomfortable podcast i am your host
0:00:17Jason L we're in the midst of talking
0:00:20about gigantic fantasy novels in our
0:00:22previous podcast we talked about George
0:00:23RR Martin's latest dance with dragons
0:00:25and in this edition we're going to
0:00:28continue our massive fantasy tome
0:00:29discussion with Patrick Rafa's new book
0:00:32The Wise Man's Fear joining me on this
0:00:36podcast as always are
0:00:38dan morgan serenity Caldwell John
0:00:40siracusa and Scott McNulty now i should
0:00:43say that the wise man's fear is the
0:00:45sequel to the name of the wind that
0:00:48we've covered in episode number 29 of
0:00:50the uncomfortable titled magic fridge
0:00:53however I wasn't actually on that
0:00:54podcast because at the time I did not
0:00:57know the name of the wind illustration
0:00:59it's george mr. but I thought they call
0:01:02the wind Mariah comments concerns anyway
0:01:05they the the sequel also a giant
0:01:08thousand-page fantasy novel The Wise
0:01:10Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss and I've
0:01:12read that one too
0:01:13i I'm fully up to date on the both saga
0:01:19as it were can't even pronounce his name
0:01:21that's pretty good but you read the
0:01:22first one and the second one
0:01:24yes I have read I've read them I've read
0:01:26them both i read the first one so i
0:01:27could listen to my own podcast so it's
0:01:30supposedly supposedly there is only one
0:01:32left
0:01:33that's really yeah I i kept I kept
0:01:36waiting for the kill
0:01:38killer chronicles day 3 and at the end
0:01:39of book 3 is like wow I thought I told
0:01:42you this would only go three days but I
0:01:43think we're over time so let's just come
0:01:45back and finish it booked for no I think
0:01:48my my first question for everybody is do
0:01:51you think that book 3 will finish the
0:01:54past or are we going to get some present
0:01:56our is the framing story going to become
0:01:58the primary story at the end of this
0:02:00this run
0:02:01well think of how think about it done so
0:02:03far like what's the overall story arc of
0:02:05these supposed three books it's like bad
0:02:07guys killed his parents and I'm assuming
0:02:10it's going to be like he comes of age
0:02:11and
0:02:12and has some sort of conflict with these
0:02:14bad guys to kill his parents but we got
0:02:152,000 pages and what does he really done
0:02:17to progress in that story arc well get
0:02:20bad guys to kill his parents we got that
0:02:22out of college
0:02:23yeah he was called you learn how to make
0:02:25magic fridge and he kind of learned a
0:02:28little bit of magic stuff and he figured
0:02:30out the guys who killed his parents are
0:02:31real
0:02:32that's good that's a step out and that
0:02:33basically is that it exists and that
0:02:36they're bad but they're only here only
0:02:37figured out they exist because of
0:02:39proving the existence of some guys to
0:02:41fought them right
0:02:42I love that piece that's it's like it's
0:02:44like discovering exoplanets by seeing
0:02:45the gravitational shifts in like the
0:02:47stars or whatever
0:02:48well he likes the you know he's probably
0:02:50on the guy but seriously 2,000 pages he
0:02:53has not made a really significant
0:02:56progress in his quest to avenge the
0:02:58death of his parents and fight like that
0:03:00time was spent a lot of time doing other
0:03:02things two thousand pages with other
0:03:04things but so what I say is he gonna
0:03:06finish up or we can have time I don't
0:03:07think he's gonna have time to just get
0:03:09through the main story arc in book 3 and
0:03:10let alone to have like present-day stuff
0:03:12where the old John it turns out he never
0:03:14actually found who killed his parents he
0:03:16just he just gave up and working about
0:03:18working apartment have a basic story and
0:03:20then where do you go to do with the
0:03:22present-day stop rafas is not afraid as
0:03:24an author to just skip over stuff like
0:03:26when he there was a shipwreck at the
0:03:29trial the trial was really exactly yeah
0:03:31and then what happened yeah no I think
0:03:34it's good i think it's great and I think
0:03:35that's how he can end it in three books
0:03:37because he'll just say okay and then a
0:03:39bunch of stuff happened that sounds
0:03:41really interesting but I'm not gonna
0:03:41tell you about it and here's the climate
0:03:44and I kept those guys keep my parents
0:03:45that felt good
0:03:46what was kind of cool about this book is
0:03:48that we do start to see the the the
0:03:51things about clothes that that make him
0:03:53such a legendary figure right we see him
0:03:55doing all this stuff that nobody else
0:03:56has done you know I see him going to
0:03:58that crazy fairy realm we see him
0:03:59training with the warrior guys we seem
0:04:02like you know murder that entire caravan
0:04:04basically and these are all things that
0:04:06then become stories of him and we we do
0:04:08start to realize that some of the
0:04:09stories are inflated and out of
0:04:10proportion I'd that's my favorite part
0:04:12of it honestly is hearing is in the
0:04:15present framing story when the people in
0:04:17the bar arguing about like the stories
0:04:20about clothes
0:04:21it is I find that fascinating that
0:04:23little bit of metafiction it's like all
0:04:24these world you know these characters
0:04:25are our
0:04:26thing about this legendary figure oh no
0:04:28he was 20 feet tall no sword was this
0:04:30thing or whatever I kind of enjoyed that
0:04:32part of it
0:04:33yeah I you know it's for me that the
0:04:37strange thing is that is that not that
0:04:39he is bold enough to say well suffice it
0:04:42to say there was a shipwreck and i ended
0:04:44up naked penny listen town right because
0:04:46that's kind of funny
0:04:47the weird thing to me is there are these
0:04:51things that feel like digressions and
0:04:53they're probably important to the
0:04:54overall story but still at one point so
0:04:59i think i'm watching a story of a guy
0:05:01coming of age and learning things in the
0:05:02University and then at one point it's
0:05:04like well we're gonna take this
0:05:05diversion and you're going to go to this
0:05:07other town where there's a guy who's
0:05:10kind of like a king but he's not a king
0:05:12and you're gonna be in you're going to
0:05:13be in his service so you go there
0:05:15there's this whole digression I'm
0:05:16learning how to play a game and out what
0:05:18all the coins me and I'm going to meet
0:05:19the guy and I'm gonna befriend him like
0:05:21this is a strange digression and then
0:05:23the King says I'm gonna send you on a
0:05:24mission
0:05:25it's like wait now we're in a digression
0:05:26inside the digression and we're not done
0:05:30yet
0:05:30and then we are on the mission there's
0:05:32the the he goes into the fairy realm and
0:05:34now what it's like with three what we're
0:05:37inside the the round parentheses and
0:05:39then inside the square bat brackets and
0:05:41then inside the curly brackets right
0:05:43it's like how deep in its its brackets
0:05:46all the way down Jason yeah wise man's
0:05:48inception evidence that it's it's framed
0:05:50in this story the framing students with
0:05:53you right after the framing stories that
0:05:55were four levels and it's in a book that
0:05:57you're reading in the story of your own
0:06:00what so so that's the part that that's
0:06:02the part that killed me is like he's
0:06:03bold enough to say i'm not going to talk
0:06:05about the trial I'm not gonna talk about
0:06:06the shipwreck and yet something else
0:06:08like you're going to meet the guy and
0:06:10learn about the court and often but i
0:06:12think it's far east and then and then
0:06:14you're going to go on a mission and
0:06:15you're going to meet new people and
0:06:16you're gonna have adventures with him in
0:06:18the trees and learn with this guy who's
0:06:20got martial arts skills and then you're
0:06:21going to go to fairyland have a lot of
0:06:23very sex for a while then you'll come
0:06:25back it's like you know wow
0:06:27and they don't have sex with ninjas but
0:06:29i think that the i think i made this
0:06:31point in our the podcast about the first
0:06:33book is that I think the book is really
0:06:35about storytelling right so and can both
0:06:37isn't building his own legend so we
0:06:39and I have to we have to you know it's
0:06:41kind of a shaggy dog story right where
0:06:43he's just kind of popped around and
0:06:45doing all these kinds of crazy things
0:06:46and the real story is the framing story
0:06:49that isn't really much of a story but
0:06:51he's telling his own story and and then
0:06:54so he's telling the story of how he got
0:06:55to where he is but dude can we actually
0:06:57trust what he's saying I don't know but
0:06:59that's a whole part i agree with
0:07:00Scotland and that's fascinating i mean
0:07:02if you've ever known somebody who is
0:07:03really great it like likes it now you
0:07:05sit down in a bar and have a drink with
0:07:06them and they tell like really
0:07:08engrossing stories other life I've had
0:07:09it I've met a couple people over the
0:07:11years were just like it's fascinating
0:07:12you just always want to know what
0:07:14happened after that right and I think
0:07:15that that clothes very much that that
0:07:18kind of figure where it's just like
0:07:20you're just kinda hooked on what he's
0:07:22telling you and and you don't
0:07:26necessarily you know to a certain extent
0:07:27maybe you want your wonder where it goes
0:07:29all goes like you know overall but at
0:07:32the same time you're just too engrossed
0:07:33in these stories to necessarily care
0:07:35immediately maybe at the end you really
0:07:37can't wait well what is the point of
0:07:38that but i think i think there's a time
0:07:40when you're reading it and you're in it
0:07:41where it's just it is very engrossing
0:07:43let's recall how this story begins
0:07:46though allowed his book begins around
0:07:47this book begins when I don't know how
0:07:48many it is because we're all reading it
0:07:49electronically but it seems like a big
0:07:52big hunk of pages where it's like high
0:07:54drinks at hog works and he has no money
0:07:56and then is often the distance and he's
0:07:58borrowing money from debbie and Ambrose
0:08:00is on his case because Ambrose is me and
0:08:02that went on for a long time like Jesus
0:08:04did we do a whole like look at this
0:08:06stuff but they gonna go somewhere so I
0:08:07was relieved when days are finally let's
0:08:10do something different they repeated
0:08:11every single thing from the first book
0:08:13within the first year you wanted 200
0:08:15then finally that I had to invent
0:08:16something yeah like I was given a poison
0:08:19and i had to get my my tuition and it
0:08:21was large and I fucking say what you
0:08:24will about the University stuff but it's
0:08:26all it's all written so enjoy i believe
0:08:28that I don't mind it so much and despite
0:08:31any i'm a sucker for university stories
0:08:33so yeah it's it's repetitive and it's
0:08:35boring but it's fun and there's music
0:08:37and and you get to I feel like you're
0:08:39learning more about the world in it
0:08:41well we learned about that in the first
0:08:42book though that's why i was happy when
0:08:44he left and when he went through all
0:08:45these digressions i found the
0:08:47digressions much more interesting then
0:08:49university life even though as Jason
0:08:51points out they seem to go nowhere haha
0:08:53i like each aggression was like oh
0:08:56that's a cool little setting and now
0:08:57okay i was another little setting out
0:08:58the ferry sex with blonde but even in
0:09:00the very sex they had the thing to live
0:09:01in the tree which is interesting and
0:09:03then we're on to something else and the
0:09:04story about the moon and and and I
0:09:07before we go any further I want to
0:09:08recommend highly chill Walton who wrote
0:09:10a book that i just read that i liked a
0:09:11lot Joe Walton the author Welsh author
0:09:15is blogging a reread analysis of these
0:09:19books on tor.com and it's fascinating
0:09:23actually because it sounds like there
0:09:25are lots and lots of things that are
0:09:27really embedded in this story in the
0:09:29first book and the second one apparently
0:09:31rafas wrote all these books is first
0:09:33draft before we went back so we have to
0:09:35go rewrite so he knows so this it's not
0:09:37like he's making it up as he goes along
0:09:39their stuff in there and and it blew my
0:09:41mind reading the blog post because
0:09:42they're there is the story that's being
0:09:44told here in a lot of detail like the
0:09:48one that really blew me away is in the
0:09:51in the second book when he said that the
0:09:53Court of the mire and the mire it has
0:09:55has married the loculus lady and she is
0:10:01up
0:10:01she hates um whatever the demo room yeah
0:10:05the gypsies the edema ruh which which
0:10:07both as a member of and one of the
0:10:10reasons is because her cousin sister on
0:10:15something ran off and married one that's
0:10:18totally closed mother his mother in yeah
0:10:21and in fact if you look at the first
0:10:22book one of the songs the song that his
0:10:25mother yells at his father for singing
0:10:27ends with a rhyme that at the time
0:10:31looked like she was saying that she
0:10:34lacked less and it turns out that it's
0:10:36the name of the lattice character who is
0:10:39his mother's real name and so I love
0:10:41that the fact that it upon scrutiny this
0:10:45story actually has more going on than
0:10:47you'd think because I you know you get
0:10:50the sense of that I notice of it like
0:10:52when he's in Fairyland everything
0:10:54fullerene says is in rhymed couplets
0:10:58even though it's not written as verse
0:10:59she speaks in verse so you have to sort
0:11:02of read
0:11:03out loud and figure out that that's what
0:11:04she's doing lots of nice touches like
0:11:06that i think crank up my my estimation
0:11:09of this story a lot that it is it does
0:11:11feel rich even though i am laughing to
0:11:13my stuff when we're in a digression
0:11:15inside aggression inside and aggression
0:11:17inside a frame i still don't call that a
0:11:19good story though that's maybe like he
0:11:22has interesting it that's kind of like
0:11:24soap opera plot points where things
0:11:25interact now and I wouldn't say so
0:11:27there's a writing question or conflict
0:11:30and and the character that goes through
0:11:32some sort of change and like it i I
0:11:34don't I mean I like those in those
0:11:36worlds in those settings and i enjoy
0:11:38reading you know about them and stuff
0:11:39but in terms of storytelling I want a
0:11:42story like it dipped ability even
0:11:44something as big and flabby is Lord of
0:11:46the Rings still has an overall story the
0:11:48ring they got destroyed they have this
0:11:49big long journey that you know that it
0:11:52is a bunch of crap in the middle but
0:11:53there's still an arc now maybe the third
0:11:55book will do that but so far it's been
0:11:56two books of treading water pleasant
0:11:58treading water in some cases but it's
0:12:00entirely an arc i would argue that the
0:12:03character changes from book 12 i mean if
0:12:05you look at where he is when he starts
0:12:06out you know in terms of like we get his
0:12:08backstory and then I think the scene the
0:12:11scene in that whole book that gave me
0:12:12the most sort of like recognition of
0:12:15this this character change changing is
0:12:16when he murders that entire caravan
0:12:18right like in cold blood essentially
0:12:20right like that's that is a very
0:12:23different guy that like that is not a
0:12:24university studio i'm happy to be
0:12:26learning stuff just hanging out with my
0:12:28friends having some drinks playing some
0:12:29music no and then I murder a whole bunch
0:12:31of people he was always a hothead and
0:12:33jerk low
0:12:34ya know there's a difference between a
0:12:36hot-headed jerk and murdering people and
0:12:38what I don't know I didn't see it out of
0:12:40character because he was always getting
0:12:41it under his skin anytime anyone said
0:12:43anything about his quote unquote erase
0:12:44but really just his profession or
0:12:47whatever the Gypsy people you know I
0:12:48hate them and he was ready to kill them
0:12:49and second everybody but yet but that's
0:12:51if that's going to be where they're
0:12:53going to go with the story there's a
0:12:54bunch of other stuff there that doesn't
0:12:56contribute to that and and I don't like
0:12:57i said i think the things that I like
0:12:59the best are the things that aren't
0:13:00actually contributing to the story and
0:13:02that works against my estimation of his
0:13:04overall story
0:13:06John you're right you're in digman
0:13:07wrapped in a riddle is true and it was
0:13:09the story is the story of how he becomes
0:13:13the man in the framing story the right
0:13:15so it's not yet it's stories like him
0:13:17tracking down who killed his parents
0:13:19that's what contributed to making him
0:13:21the character that he is he's not he's
0:13:23not really getting any closer to be the
0:13:25guy that I disagree with that I don't
0:13:27know my vision of the guy in the framing
0:13:28story is that he's much older than the
0:13:30guy in the regular story so I don't know
0:13:32maybe he is there no no it's supposed to
0:13:34be like 34 is yeah he's they say that
0:13:37he's he he yeah he said he's actually
0:13:39surprisingly gotta lose all of his magic
0:13:41powers and all this physical ability in
0:13:43a very short time they have one bright
0:13:45but does he lose it though that's the
0:13:47question right because he is just acting
0:13:49or is he we don't know does he lose it
0:13:51or lose faith
0:13:52I mean that's the real question right
0:13:53because he gets beaten up at one point
0:13:55but it doesn't matter whether he's
0:13:56allowing that to happen yeah but it does
0:13:58he let i think i do i read it into it
0:14:01that he allowed that to happen because
0:14:02he was a you know trying to keep he's
0:14:05hiding from something we don't know what
0:14:07or why
0:14:08well I i read that as him screwing up
0:14:10legitimately because he and I grace for
0:14:13over one was saying they're about lack
0:14:14of faith that you know they're so
0:14:15there's clearly something has shaken him
0:14:17to my reading because you know clearly
0:14:19the whole twist there at the end is that
0:14:21bast hire these guys right to come in
0:14:23try and trick him into being him all his
0:14:26old self again and it didn't work so you
0:14:30know you can certainly make the argument
0:14:32that he's he's doing this and all
0:14:33putting on a show but that that and
0:14:35maybe that you know lives up to his epic
0:14:37nature oh I knew I knew you were trying
0:14:40to trick me best so I played against you
0:14:42right but it felt a little too genuine
0:14:44to me the way that he starts to do
0:14:46something right and then screws up even
0:14:48like figuring out he's like martial arts
0:14:50moves that's that's what he would do if
0:14:52he was faking it but no I don't know
0:14:53I've his entire his entire frame of
0:14:57reference for me and these in this
0:14:58framing story just he feels broken every
0:15:01scene you read about him in the in the
0:15:03framing story I mean it's like his hair
0:15:05is dulled and he just has sort of a you
0:15:07know a hunch when he works and you can
0:15:09still sort of get the the spark of where
0:15:11what he used to be when he's telling me
0:15:13stories but and a general thing like you
0:15:16you look at him virtually look through
0:15:19the the way that roughness is describing
0:15:21the character and you don't you see a
0:15:23shred of the man he used to be at least
0:15:25thats that's how i see it it is a sad
0:15:28sack that I suppose the counter-argument
0:15:30to that is he supposed to be this
0:15:31masterful performance to like it's in
0:15:33some ways it's like he's piece body into
0:15:35the role
0:15:36yeah that he was performing they could
0:15:38still say that he was faking it and he
0:15:40is a sad so yes he's kind of like Bill
0:15:41Murray what they could they couldn't
0:15:44it's more I think it's more interesting
0:15:45if he's not
0:15:46yeah so what do we think about whe about
0:15:49Jenna who is continues to be kind of
0:15:51this weird character that just she's--oh
0:15:53she's so she's so great and and yes
0:15:56she's so she's also so mysterious and
0:15:58she has a mysterious patron and and with
0:16:01the exception of the scene where she
0:16:02basically where he eavesdrops on her as
0:16:05she tells the the girl that she can be a
0:16:07prostitute of various kinds or she can
0:16:09find another line of work to be in which
0:16:11i thought was kind of interesting but I
0:16:13i find her problematic because she does
0:16:15seem kind of like this flat empty
0:16:17oh it's the love of his life but she's
0:16:19not that interesting she's I feel like
0:16:21maybe because her story is so wrapped up
0:16:25in the overarching story we only see her
0:16:28in one in one perspective exactly and
0:16:30you only see him from which will be a
0:16:32very clever reveal but at the same time
0:16:34we have two books of her being
0:16:35completely flat and boring well so is
0:16:37Ambrose Ambrose another flight character
0:16:38we have no Ambrose is completely
0:16:40one-dimensional he's not even a
0:16:41character there's a lot of I complain
0:16:43about the characters in the first one
0:16:44and it continues to be the case in the
0:16:45Second a lot of cookie cutter character
0:16:47and even even the main character i still
0:16:48think it's still kind of marry soon
0:16:50within the way that he's good at
0:16:51everything that he tries in an annoying
0:16:53way and another issue i'll get to when
0:16:55we get to a later section but that's it
0:16:58jenna is the flat test because she's so
0:17:00one-dimensional but Ambrose is also one
0:17:02dimension but we just accept that will
0:17:04hear the antagonist is not that
0:17:05important he's he's not the main
0:17:07antagonist and I keep waiting for
0:17:08clothes to kill him and have it
0:17:11basically ruin his life
0:17:13yeah battle things happen I mean we are
0:17:15alluded to the fact they basically gets
0:17:17kicked out right well accepted yes he
0:17:19actually does it kill Leon von clairol
0:17:21story
0:17:22yeah yeah I don't know it doesn't
0:17:24officially get kicked out he's just
0:17:25strongly suggested that he leave so it's
0:17:27unclear whether we've seen that or not
0:17:29but I mean if he murdered Ambrose and
0:17:31like really had to leave like that would
0:17:32just differ is a self-defense what you
0:17:35it's interesting that all the settings
0:17:36that he seems to be put in are ones
0:17:39where there's an authority that has
0:17:41control over his life he goes right from
0:17:42the University where we had a book and a
0:17:44half practically of his life being ruled
0:17:46by the rules of this university where
0:17:48you have to pay tuition and you have to
0:17:49do this but you can't do bad magic and
0:17:51these people blah blah and it goes right
0:17:53into the mayor Harvey process that guy's
0:17:55name
0:17:55whereas another another place where he's
0:17:57not in control he's got to be nice to
0:17:58the Kingsley guy are also is gonna hang
0:18:00him or kill my keys at the mercy of a
0:18:01rule system bronze ring yeah he's all he
0:18:04has been defined system in any second if
0:18:06you runs afoul of the system it's a
0:18:07life-threatening thing either because
0:18:09he's gonna be poor and destitute out on
0:18:10the street and out of the university or
0:18:11biggest are just gonna hang them because
0:18:13the guys capricious and very powerful
0:18:14and then he goes into the Adem same
0:18:17situation should we kill them should be
0:18:19trained him i don't know like he's
0:18:20always at the mercy of will train him
0:18:22and ven killing right
0:18:25didn't see that one coming he's always
0:18:27at the mercy of these systems that he
0:18:29did invent so and even in the face
0:18:32another situation like this character
0:18:33goes from one set of I think of it like
0:18:36school like if you are in a school
0:18:38system where you have to abide by the
0:18:40set of rules that you think arbitrary
0:18:41unfair whatever every place he goes it's
0:18:43like school program where someone else
0:18:45is in charge of him
0:18:46it does it does have that IDC assertive
0:18:48feeling to it though doesn't it where he
0:18:50wanders around from place to place in
0:18:52there you know I the odyssey is a little
0:18:54like the original anthology series this
0:18:57myth like and now there will be some
0:18:59adventures here for a while and then he
0:19:00will move on but boring bureaucratic
0:19:02because it's like a rule principle is
0:19:04managing this the King's gonna hang your
0:19:06you didn't follow the right rules for
0:19:08these ninja people's it's the bureau and
0:19:10kisses the Cyclops have a very clear set
0:19:12of rules roddis on the door to the
0:19:14Cyclops's cave it said you know
0:19:16employees must hand wash hands before
0:19:18they return to work and you know all
0:19:20that sort of thing right there ass ring
0:19:22without the event the LED ring for the
0:19:24Cyclops would ring and you
0:19:26yeah exactly so can I talk about women
0:19:30I don't know why Ren doesn't bring this
0:19:32up because she's supposed to be the
0:19:33female representative but I continued
0:19:35date especially in fact happen
0:19:37yeah I haven't had a chance to talk
0:19:38about the women you to talk right also
0:19:42so artists artists of the sex part of
0:19:44the women
0:19:45in this book gets to have guests to have
0:19:49sex with the sexy supernatural being in
0:19:52the universe is at a time
0:19:55Maria and who teaches him the ways of
0:19:57players right we don't know and a ninja
0:20:00warrior woman who mixes casual
0:20:02commitment free sex in with her training
0:20:04and who if you knock her up won't be on
0:20:07you for any responsibility because she
0:20:08doesn't believe you had anything to do
0:20:09with that baby
0:20:10well that's her closer this is yeah this
0:20:13is that what you Larry Ultimate Male and
0:20:15the sex fantasy book where all your
0:20:17desires will be fulfilled in multiple
0:20:19possible ways you have your main
0:20:20leverages you have your sex goddess you
0:20:22have your warrior woman is just there
0:20:23for casual sex now for fun
0:20:25well we did go eighteen hundred pages
0:20:27with him being a virgin
0:20:28I know but like it's just ridiculous
0:20:30like it I its juvenile it's silly its
0:20:34movement I'll that the female characters
0:20:36are it's it's a parody of itself I don't
0:20:38know if he meant it to be a parody but
0:20:40like can you add and I got so so this is
0:20:44this is my theory on on women and in
0:20:47general the the way that the killer
0:20:50chronicles are lined up is that because
0:20:53it is a story of both and the way he is
0:20:55going it's very much I feel like every
0:20:58single character and this includes
0:20:59Ambrose antenna and everybody else is
0:21:01seen through his eyes and as such is
0:21:03told through the perspective of him at
0:21:05that point I feel like I'm and I may be
0:21:08terribly wrong but I feel like the
0:21:10reason why didn't it comes across as
0:21:11boring the reason why Ambrose comes
0:21:13across as one-dimensional because we're
0:21:15only seeing both perspective at the age
0:21:18that he's at and hopefully when we get
0:21:22into the third book i'm crossing my
0:21:24fingers that things become more
0:21:26three-dimensional but it's the older guy
0:21:28telling the story that I brought this up
0:21:29in the first podcast like I was in on
0:21:31that theory but it's the older one
0:21:33telling story its not I know what you're
0:21:34saying like what is he telling it from
0:21:36like this is what I thought when I was
0:21:3718 and I was an idiot and what we don't
0:21:40have a counterexample right because
0:21:41they're there are no women in the
0:21:43framing story really right
0:21:44no I mean it's well any have em and
0:21:46that's the other part that that's the
0:21:47part we see through chroniclers eyes
0:21:48right we have we have no I idea of how
0:21:51we treat women how women are described
0:21:52there's no baseline we only have the the
0:21:54past narrative quote relating the
0:21:56stories of women so
0:21:58but if you were telling the story when
0:21:59you were 16 wouldn't you be saying about
0:22:01boys I was such an idiot a 16 here's
0:22:03what I thought about x y&z but he never
0:22:04does that
0:22:05well I don't know I feel like there's a
0:22:07fair amount of I was an idiot overlaid
0:22:09in a lot of this story jumped off a roof
0:22:11right but that's what he doesn't say
0:22:13that about the women he doesn't say all
0:22:14night long for dinner and she was so
0:22:16wonderful you know he doesn't have that
0:22:18contrast that we do have one at least
0:22:20one Orie who I think is one you know a
0:22:22female character that's actually not a
0:22:25mite yeah some i will develop a question
0:22:28that one right but I'm saying like she's
0:22:31not she's not a sex object
0:22:33she's not you know I you serious flow
0:22:35jerk
0:22:36I think she's got interesting there's a
0:22:38there's a story there is a story behind
0:22:40the only one that's not available for
0:22:41sex is the mentally handicapped one
0:22:43because him being sexually attracted
0:22:44there would be too creepy
0:22:46I don't know if she's mentally
0:22:47handicapped well you know I mean I think
0:22:49your brain is broken
0:22:50yeah but she I assume she's a neighbor
0:22:52who went into yahoo and that was that
0:22:54was my just clearly not so it's not
0:22:56appropriate for couples to be telling us
0:22:58that love who I caught a glimpse of her
0:22:59leg in this sexy drag that she was
0:23:01wearing up from the sewers you know it's
0:23:02not but every other every other woman we
0:23:05hear that about
0:23:06he sets up his friend for one of them
0:23:08know to be yeah there's music there's a
0:23:10couple other girls in the series you
0:23:11love any girl who he who isn't described
0:23:14in terms of how they are attractive to
0:23:16the male's accepted because except the
0:23:18grill there's the there's the other girl
0:23:21got a feeling she's always always
0:23:23describe how beautiful she is and how
0:23:25are ya tractor dark Debbie same deal
0:23:27very attractive sexy girl was flirting
0:23:29over their desk arguing over money
0:23:31Dennis certainly like that's that's the
0:23:34thing with coats
0:23:35I don't know I thought is it just a
0:23:37hound dog what can you say what I feel
0:23:39like it's flirting all in different ways
0:23:41though because i wouldn't call i
0:23:43wouldn't call the Fela flirting the same
0:23:45on the same level as the Debbie flirting
0:23:46or on the same level as the ferroli
0:23:48including every possible type of
0:23:50learning well but I'm just saying the
0:23:52the fact that they're different like you
0:23:54read you read juvenile books bye bye
0:23:56guys who are you know clearly a little
0:23:58bit sex craved or putting funneling us
0:24:01it's an obsession into that and you get
0:24:03all the female
0:24:07it wasn't there were no female
0:24:08characters intelligent but yeah I'm just
0:24:12saying like when you read it when you
0:24:14read a book by an author who is clearly
0:24:16a little sex-crazed all of the women
0:24:18come across the exact same way so it's
0:24:20all like all of all the women you know
0:24:22our sexy for this exact same reason you
0:24:25always hear legs come up benefiting
0:24:26robert jordan yes Robert Jordan is a
0:24:30perfect example if you want an author
0:24:32who is terrible at women robert jordan
0:24:34terry terry goodkind is another perfect
0:24:36example of this where it's just to all
0:24:38of the all of the women have very
0:24:40similar yeah all the women have very
0:24:42similarly descriptive characteristics
0:24:45and the thing that I find interesting
0:24:46about this is yes Dana is completely
0:24:49wonder she's one-dimensional she's
0:24:51two-dimensional she's floating and
0:24:53whatever but could both says hey that he
0:24:54puts her up on a pedestal at the very
0:24:56beginning with a book he says this is
0:24:58the girl that was completely unreachable
0:24:59and this is why and it wasn't like he
0:25:02doesn't go just she's unreachable
0:25:04because she's pretty
0:25:05it's very much like this she is this
0:25:07unknowable object and literally
0:25:09unreachable
0:25:10yes effort for months at a time doesn't
0:25:12it cellphone store like magic magic
0:25:14cellphone have magic and they can't have
0:25:16magic phones he's gonna he's gonna
0:25:17artifice 18 I think you can make one in
0:25:19the fishery in about a month right now
0:25:22she's writing her own Queen Killer
0:25:23chronicles yeah exactly
0:25:25well I fascinating i would be relaxed
0:25:27that's one of the things that word cloud
0:25:29my thought was a really funny theory
0:25:31which is that he is obsessed with
0:25:33finding the champion and the charians
0:25:36hey opposition is this other group that
0:25:41is the mirror your idea mirror so what
0:25:43so what if she's obsessed with finding
0:25:45me a mirror and they're working like the
0:25:48opposite side of the same case this
0:25:50entire time and different did anyone
0:25:52assumed that her her patron was one of
0:25:54the Chandra and I mean oh yeah kind of
0:25:56more ideas maybe the guy he's playing
0:25:57the board game with two yeah yeah
0:26:00mm but who knows I mean that could be
0:26:02the that's just a lot of the economy of
0:26:04characters talking there which is her
0:26:06perhaps we've seen her patron and we
0:26:08already know who he is it was the guy
0:26:10who is playing chess with i'm going to
0:26:11call cheat on that because that
0:26:13character like you have to put in
0:26:15something that makes a suspected that
0:26:16guy was a hundred percent straight-up
0:26:18he's especially is a good guy and
0:26:19and that's what makes me suspect its
0:26:21batteries you know what I mean he's yeah
0:26:25it doesn't see it doesn't seem like that
0:26:26kind of book doesn't seem like the kind
0:26:28of book worries like pulling like that's
0:26:29like a new uniforms room murder where
0:26:31you make like the one guy who didn't
0:26:32expect it's the priest has been friendly
0:26:34the whole time lots of cheap move you
0:26:35know what I mean yeah I mean I feel like
0:26:37there are no new characters introduced
0:26:39this book all the time that i don't i
0:26:40feel like it's definitely somebody we've
0:26:43heard of before but I don't I don't
0:26:45necessarily feel like if somebody yeah
0:26:47somebody could both knows well one of
0:26:50the Chandra and could be absolutely be
0:26:52the case i love that though I i do love
0:26:55the fact that there is this super scary
0:26:58band of supernatural creatures where if
0:27:01you if you speak about them a little too
0:27:03much they will come and kill you because
0:27:04they don't want to be known as the bad
0:27:06of them for not being known really well
0:27:08what was your reason to kill everybody
0:27:11well because everything kill everybody
0:27:12so they just wiped off the map so nobody
0:27:14even associated oh my god those people
0:27:16died I don't know who did it we're
0:27:18talking again
0:27:19I mean the whole book is surrounded
0:27:21around the the concept of names and
0:27:24stories and that kind of so it makes
0:27:26perfect sense that you know nameservers
0:27:28stories are dangerous means that the
0:27:30most dangerous thing i mean i love that
0:27:32that everybody does to ride this whole
0:27:34thing about him being like you're you're
0:27:35searching for fairy tales right like
0:27:37that was always you know kind of
0:27:39interesting is our date but they accept
0:27:41every other movie is very specifically a
0:27:44ridiculous has come on
0:27:45well it's you know even in a magical
0:27:47world you've got to have limits right
0:27:49you've got to have you've got to have
0:27:51the high-end that that's not actually
0:27:53going to happen is beyond the pale
0:27:54yeah exactly so do we like this book
0:27:58actually i cani cani list of all the
0:28:00things i like about it but i do like a
0:28:02bunch of things i'm not at all right
0:28:03let's do that
0:28:05whoo not real genius Jason I like the
0:28:08women characters that I like the the the
0:28:12shipwreck
0:28:13yeah it's resetting shipwrecked not so I
0:28:16like almost all the many settings that
0:28:18they put everything in the little stuff
0:28:20like a dragon hunt in the last one right
0:28:22which is well i didn't i didn't like
0:28:23that but the dragon the Severn I like
0:28:26that whole setup that was fun them in
0:28:27we left it before it got to be boring or
0:28:29stupid that the Adem and admir and Tempe
0:28:32and the whole talking with gestures and
0:28:34hit that character that character in
0:28:36particular is one of my favorite
0:28:37characters he was interesting and
0:28:39strange and in the beginning you thought
0:28:41he was quite mysterious guy but he gets
0:28:43back to the village realize he's just
0:28:44kind of like a lowly runt of the litter
0:28:46and he really shouldn't have done what
0:28:48he did I like those guys like that
0:28:51culture that was a funny little story
0:28:52there
0:28:53I like the thing in the tree that was a
0:28:55good idea that thing that knows all
0:28:56possible yeah and tries to cause the
0:28:59most harm based on info that's it like
0:29:01all these things are our basis of you
0:29:02can imagine like yours best fantasy and
0:29:04science fiction having a little stories
0:29:05in each one of these settings they'd all
0:29:06be good you know the tree I just for a
0:29:09second I what I love about the tree is
0:29:11that it is completely consistent with
0:29:13the the kind of many worlds idea that
0:29:15that the tree sees all the possible
0:29:18things and knows that if it says certain
0:29:20words those only appear in this eventual
0:29:23outcome so it says those words which is
0:29:25just wow what a crazy idea and you can
0:29:29see why nobody would want to listen to
0:29:30it and why it would be really evil
0:29:32anybody in the face around but even
0:29:34they're scared of it's like you don't
0:29:35even don't even go there don't even talk
0:29:36don't do not engage with that thing
0:29:38whose name I can't pronounce right
0:29:39don't talk to the tree and then there's
0:29:42also the tree and terms of the parallels
0:29:44the tree with the ATM where there's the
0:29:47tree that has the like the sword will
0:29:50stand ya ya crazy so all those little
0:29:53settings i like the sword where you have
0:29:55to memorize the entire history out yes
0:29:57every prior owner there's so many that's
0:29:59that's what it makes you want to read
0:30:01these books ever there's so many those
0:30:02little touches a good sorry Bob rich so
0:30:04many little things in there it's just
0:30:05they do not hold together into a
0:30:07cohesive hold it's a story that i think
0:30:09is going to be successful but all little
0:30:10pieces I like chronicles you know it's
0:30:12like it's like a good book exploded and
0:30:15these are the pieces and I particularly
0:30:16think Martin Martin wow this is little
0:30:19piece like this one shiny boy but you
0:30:20have deployed of the book is that he is
0:30:23telling how he became a legend so he's
0:30:25telling all these little stories because
0:30:26all these little stories are how legends
0:30:28are you know that's how our culture
0:30:30deals with the story search the group of
0:30:32stories that stand alone
0:30:34and they're super cool and then they get
0:30:36you know exaggerated throughout the time
0:30:38and then suddenly he is all-powerful
0:30:39when he's really just a guy who's kind
0:30:42of collapsing under the pressure of the
0:30:44legend that he kind of helped create and
0:30:47the people who don't know how you
0:30:48reproduce that i can draw the line on
0:30:50that when I was like come on people
0:30:51I think everyone figures out of
0:30:53reproduction marks if you don't figure
0:30:55out a reproduction works
0:30:56you are not successful as a society as a
0:30:59people
0:31:00you figured you did something people
0:31:01figure out I'm sorry homunculus it's a
0:31:03it's a fantasy book maybe it doesn't
0:31:05work that way mrs. Jarrow i love the
0:31:06fact though that they're very insistent
0:31:08on it because it does it just puts that
0:31:09point that you need to maybe reexamine
0:31:12your maybe it will wait a second is that
0:31:13just my culture who thinks that I mean
0:31:15obviously not but it's such a funny
0:31:17moment of like but no yourself only
0:31:19there were some experiment we could run
0:31:21to you yes well maybe we had the means
0:31:23the scientific method to figure out this
0:31:25eternal mystery but they don't they live
0:31:27they live in the rocks they don't have
0:31:29any of value they live in rocks or was
0:31:31it was exciting to hear it was like man
0:31:33mommies or something i forget what the
0:31:34slang term was for you believe in it was
0:31:37a mister mister mom's you believe
0:31:39Michael Michael Keaton's you believe it
0:31:41oh so we purchased second miss what else
0:31:45what else John anything hot and i think
0:31:47that's it for all the things that i like
0:31:49that it be
0:31:51yeah but that's basically no but I i
0:31:53agree with you completely that the the
0:31:55thing as much as i mock these
0:31:57regressions inside digressions lot of
0:31:59the aggressions were really fun and and
0:32:02and rich and and enjoyable on the on
0:32:06their own pull apart even if the larger
0:32:09thing I'm will wait wait a second are we
0:32:10ever gonna get back to all this other
0:32:12stuff that's going on where you want to
0:32:14do you want to get back yeah just hang
0:32:16out here and can't wait till we see den
0:32:17again
0:32:18no yeah that's where it's all unrequited
0:32:21an awkward I'd forgotten she exists and
0:32:24now we're back and looking for her and
0:32:25Severn loan it's like just come come on
0:32:27tell me who you're but what who your
0:32:30patron is no answer
0:32:31he's got no la now got like a suppliant
0:32:34I cannot tell you who my patron is oh
0:32:37but I love you but but no but I can't
0:32:39tell you because the polygonal your
0:32:42understatement
0:32:43now I have to go kill a dragon
0:32:47and I could take the dragon yeah my
0:32:49absolute favorite parts about this book
0:32:52are well two things 1i love the fact
0:32:56that these are you know to almost
0:32:58thousand-page books and what this one is
0:33:01a thousand pages i think we're 994 pages
0:33:05that don't feel like thousand-page books
0:33:08i read each of these i read them
0:33:10back-to-back because I happened to pick
0:33:12up a name of the wind after wise man's
0:33:14fear would come out and I read those
0:33:16back-to-back in two days just because no
0:33:19just the clothes
0:33:20yes i know it say I didn't have day
0:33:23three and it drove me insane
0:33:25we're at a tavern I was at the tavern of
0:33:27my apple pie and cider the tavern of my
0:33:30room I think you know what's what's most
0:33:32impressive about that though really is
0:33:35the amount of mocking before you read
0:33:38those
0:33:38yes when when other people are reading
0:33:40those books just just that I i was i was
0:33:44mocking these books i was mocking these
0:33:45books because dan was rereading and
0:33:47gloating does not become you mr. know i
0:33:49was curious I was like oh yeah well i
0:33:52was looking over her shoulder it's like
0:33:53oh weird magic words and they're
0:33:56traveling i have read this but are there
0:33:59more true so yeah you should have
0:34:01continued marketing business for all
0:34:02valid mocks me they are they are valid
0:34:05marks but you know what it's an
0:34:06incredibly well-written book and it's
0:34:08not it is not incredibly well-written
0:34:10yes yes yes I was John that's what's
0:34:13giving you coming back if anything it's
0:34:15the writing I mean in the parts that you
0:34:17enjoy it was poorly written and when I
0:34:19don't know probably was party wouldn't
0:34:21hold together structure of the sentences
0:34:23and stuff like that like it's competent
0:34:25and the idiosyncrasies are charming
0:34:27instead of irritating for the most part
0:34:29but i think we call that good writing
0:34:32yeah I you know what I'm not saying it's
0:34:33Hemingway I'm just saying it's you know
0:34:35it's not having what if you can write a
0:34:37thousand-page book if it was poorly Rand
0:34:40and you wouldn't be coming back but this
0:34:41is this is the opposite of him it was
0:34:43not Cormac McCarthy yeah you can keep if
0:34:46you can keep me occupied for an entire
0:34:49day for a thousand-page book and make it
0:34:51feel like I've only read two hundred
0:34:53pages i count that is good ring it's
0:34:55it's a book limbus yes it's a paper and
0:34:57i will give you that it is paige Turner
0:34:59is not
0:35:00it's not citizen calibre page for
0:35:01everything ok kindle clicker also i mean
0:35:03i respect you that I really really
0:35:05respect his ability to work
0:35:08music into this and to work like 40
0:35:10Lian's i am back dialogue and all of
0:35:13that it's it's really really interesting
0:35:15to see those those fields and those sort
0:35:17of things interweaving and the music
0:35:19stuff i mean coming from a classical
0:35:21music background and reading these books
0:35:24it's really really touching some of the
0:35:27things in here
0:35:28strike right at the core of people like
0:35:31especially me like as a musician I'm
0:35:33like yep i completely identify with what
0:35:35you're talking about
0:35:36and the way you're saying this is
0:35:38exactly how i feel and it's you know you
0:35:40don't find that all that often where
0:35:42someone can capture passion accurately
0:35:44on the page and I really that was really
0:35:46impressive i'm still going with my
0:35:48exploding book theory because it's like
0:35:50for example that little piece that piece
0:35:52of the music you know I recognize that
0:35:54as it was a good party even though i'm
0:35:55not a musical person as as a good part
0:35:57of the book there are many aspects of
0:35:59this that are exemplary I just don't
0:36:01think they all fit together into an
0:36:03overall really good book really good
0:36:05story to pay trying to because i love
0:36:07little nuggets and it's like I'm it's
0:36:08like a video game with is really cool
0:36:09you know maybe really cool boss battles
0:36:13are really cool levels here and there
0:36:14and there's lots of director in between
0:36:15when you're done it doesn't hold up and
0:36:16is like so as a cohesive whole story so
0:36:19even though I keep wanting to go through
0:36:21but I want to get to the night next
0:36:22interesting nugget I keep turning the
0:36:23pages and each of those each of those
0:36:25nuggets is good and they're good aspects
0:36:27of it i don't think i like the mix is
0:36:29right i don't think the formula don't
0:36:31think he's got it down yet
0:36:32you know you're a rat you're a rat in a
0:36:34maze John now looking for that next
0:36:36piece of GMO you know they're good
0:36:38pieces of cheese here and there you know
0:36:39exploded off of the large wheel of
0:36:41cheese most of its amazed and it is not
0:36:45a way to weigh 250 pages medicine got
0:36:49your veteran fantasy reader what do you
0:36:51think I completely disagree with John
0:36:55because i think that the the beauty of
0:36:58this this story is that it is so
0:37:01fragmented and kind of building up into
0:37:03this framing story which I know I keep
0:37:05repeating this but I think that's the
0:37:07the whole thing is about storytelling
0:37:09and
0:37:10how you know these different things are
0:37:12going to weave together to form this
0:37:14legend of this guy and I think it's
0:37:16built like I could be sorely
0:37:18disappointed because I am assuming that
0:37:20it's going to build up to something in
0:37:22book 3 and something will happen but if
0:37:24it doesn't then i will agree with John
0:37:26retroactive with high- assuming the
0:37:28explanation book 3 will be disappointed
0:37:30and I can't believe Scott isn't also
0:37:31assuming that as my fellow passive we
0:37:33have an optimist and is optimist aren't
0:37:37you just assuming whatever the
0:37:38explanation I haven't booked three it's
0:37:39going to be disappointing for you know
0:37:41there's no there's no way they can
0:37:42explain anything to build up to the hype
0:37:44they have over at the two brothers john
0:37:47says the glass is half empty
0:37:48Scott's as half-full I say it's got half
0:37:51as much stuff as it contains exactly
0:37:55I i have faith in I think that he
0:37:57process is a very good storyteller and I
0:38:00have a feeling that he will have a
0:38:03satisfying conclusion and I appreciate
0:38:07that it will only be three books so even
0:38:09if it isn't that satisfying it didn't
0:38:10take that long to read them is a good
0:38:12short story teller don't have a good
0:38:14novelist that's a good short stories in
0:38:16that last novel alright damn red you
0:38:22have things to say about I mean it
0:38:23sounds it sounds like reading your very
0:38:25positive about it i'm very positive
0:38:27about it was it's the first series i've
0:38:29read in a while that made me really
0:38:30excited to start reading fantasy books
0:38:32again and that's that is a hard thing to
0:38:34do
0:38:35yes what about you damn i actually
0:38:38really like I agree a lot with Scott
0:38:40because he's smart but you know how it
0:38:42pains me and so I I know but I i think
0:38:46we talked about this a little bit in the
0:38:47name of the wind podcast about the idea
0:38:48of this being a book more about
0:38:50storytelling and I think you know that's
0:38:54a subject that happens we really
0:38:55interesting to me and perhaps that's why
0:38:56I found it so entertaining and enjoyable
0:38:58that sort of meta aspect of well what is
0:39:03a fantasy legend right we have so many
0:39:04books that are about these
0:39:05larger-than-life heroes and the
0:39:08adventures they go on and so it's kind
0:39:10of interesting to have them be you know
0:39:12that flipped on their head to a certain
0:39:13extent and be like yes they're all these
0:39:15stories but we are hearing them through
0:39:16this person's point of view and for you
0:39:18know this person basically appears to be
0:39:20you know a bartender
0:39:22yeah there's some there's some
0:39:24interesting contradiction is going you
0:39:25know on an errand and again like Scott I
0:39:28think you know the third book if we're
0:39:30building to an end here then it
0:39:33hopefully it pays off on all the stuff
0:39:36that we've sort of had put out there and
0:39:39I I'd certainly and enjoyed the first
0:39:41two and look forward to reading the
0:39:42third one
0:39:43Jason how do you feel about these books
0:39:46aah SI not a regular fantasy writer you
0:39:49know I i enjoyed them
0:39:50I i I'm kind of in the middle in that I
0:39:54i agree that I a lot of this is about
0:39:59storytelling and the framing story is
0:40:00important because he's building his own
0:40:02legend in his own way and so there may
0:40:05be some level of not necessarily
0:40:07unreliability but he chooses the stories
0:40:09he tells and and I think that's
0:40:11interesting i like the richness of the
0:40:12world and the fact that he does seem to
0:40:15be planting seeds of of stuff early on
0:40:18that in hindsight or if you go and read
0:40:20a blog on the internet you can see he
0:40:22knows what was happening in the second
0:40:24book in the first book and so it's
0:40:25internally consistent which I like I
0:40:28also shared John's feeling that there
0:40:30are there are times when I thought yes
0:40:34the individual moments hold together
0:40:35better than the book as a whole and that
0:40:38it's a little bit you know chamblee and
0:40:40and rambly and and and messy and it
0:40:45would make me laugh saying that were
0:40:46five digression is down but uh but that
0:40:49I i do think that he's got a you know
0:40:52he's got a lot of skill on display and
0:40:57my concern though is is that job I
0:41:01worried that John may be right i think
0:41:03i've got some hope that that this will
0:41:05come off but it is you know the
0:41:09University stuff does feel like we we we
0:41:11already have a lot of that we're getting
0:41:13it again and you know i'm not entirely
0:41:17sure if the if the overarching story is
0:41:20maybe a little too messy and not
0:41:23progressing as fast as maybe I prefer
0:41:26but you know i'm enjoying the moments
0:41:28and I'm enjoying the richness of it and
0:41:31so I'm willing to take the ride even if
0:41:33if it ever got some concerns about
0:41:36about some of the details so you know I
0:41:37i agree with everybody everybody's right
0:41:39god bless us everyone
0:41:42now I think we all agree they were all
0:41:43when the third book comes out we'll all
0:41:45read it like even though i said all
0:41:46these bad things about it like it keep I
0:41:48keeps me reading because i want those
0:41:50fun little parts and I'm not offended by
0:41:53him too i just think alike but jason
0:41:54said is true i think he has lots of raw
0:41:56talent he just doesn't know how to
0:41:57harness it yet in my opinion it doesn't
0:41:59mean that the book is not worth reading
0:42:00it just means that i can given his
0:42:03talent and these things these little
0:42:04things that he's made I can envision a
0:42:06better book than what he's written if he
0:42:08could have that the same town focused
0:42:10more into into a hole like he hasn't
0:42:12quite figured that out yet i think i
0:42:14think that he is trying to tell a
0:42:16destroyed story though and that's that's
0:42:18what i have been doing that I know I
0:42:20know what you're saying I know the thing
0:42:21you're describing I wish I could
0:42:22remember there was some story right
0:42:23there is very similar to this of a guy
0:42:25telling about legend of itself with that
0:42:26going forward and back and maybe there's
0:42:28been several of them that's why i can't
0:42:29remember it
0:42:30I if he's going for that he could pull
0:42:32that off better than he's doing here
0:42:34I i'm not sure i'd rather read that
0:42:36story then a different one with the same
0:42:39guy but like it's I I just think he's
0:42:42got a lot of raw talent and it's the
0:42:44farthest first books like this first in
0:42:46a second book
0:42:47yeah I think that kind of shows and
0:42:50again being a big Stephen King fan he's
0:42:53I he's the author was most books that I
0:42:55think about every single thing Steven
0:42:56can get similar problems he was a young
0:42:58author where he had some raw talent but
0:43:00he was just kind of a mess right and it
0:43:02took just years and years and many many
0:43:04books for him to just figure it out and
0:43:06push it together and I get that vibe i
0:43:08think Patrick Rothfuss is better in his
0:43:10first two novels and Stephen King was in
0:43:11his first you know several of them so
0:43:14he's got stuff I have to say John I I'm
0:43:17sorry to do this it's not as if Stephen
0:43:20King is one of your favorite movies from
0:43:22the 80s but i will say you know rafas is
0:43:26way better
0:43:27stylistically as a rather than early
0:43:29books true but Stephen King does get his
0:43:32now together around i like i like
0:43:34stephen king but what what his books
0:43:36lack that I think I see in the patrick
0:43:38rothfuss stuff is just a tie I like the
0:43:42style i think that Stephen King has
0:43:43always been somebody who's got a style
0:43:45but his voice sounds the same in every
0:43:46book and
0:43:47and I know he's got a lot of things i'm
0:43:50not trying to slag on on Stephen King
0:43:52here i'm just saying that I don't I
0:43:54rothfuss bring some stuff to the table
0:43:56that I think Stephen King doesn't but I
0:43:57think you're right in the sense that
0:43:58stephen king is very good at
0:44:01constructing his books in a way that I'm
0:44:03not sure Patrick Rothfuss has got that's
0:44:05mostly what I'm getting at is stephen
0:44:06king is with workmanlike I'm not holding
0:44:08out as a great author but he really did
0:44:10figure out from his early stories where
0:44:13he was and knows how to tell stories how
0:44:14to tell scary and 22 his later start
0:44:16like at his turning point thinking this
0:44:18is obscure be unless you're sixteen
0:44:20kingdom but the book bag of bones which
0:44:21was not a very good book and not one of
0:44:23my favorites but I'd noted that when i
0:44:25was reading it as a turning point in his
0:44:26writing where he actually finally had a
0:44:28little tiny bit of style chops on
0:44:31display and ruthless does have more
0:44:32style than steaming and probably ever
0:44:35will but it's just so loose and on
0:44:38unencumbered by anything whereas Stephen
0:44:40King was messy and disorganized and bad
0:44:44writing and he finally got a little bit
0:44:45of style around bag of bones which
0:44:46nobody read and then afterwards you sort
0:44:48of pulled it together but yeah he did
0:44:51Stephen King is work he works the
0:44:53formula and you know what you're gonna
0:44:54get when you read one of his books but
0:44:56it's solid it's every one of his stories
0:44:58later ones after that are just
0:44:59constructed solidly almost like a
0:45:02Hollywood movie only ten times longer
0:45:04now write it up right all right well
0:45:08this is gonna be the longest book club
0:45:10podcast we've ever done but it's almost
0:45:12about is the equivalent of about 10,000
0:45:15pages will soothe yeah war 1 2015 oh
0:45:19thank you bring it back around I do
0:45:22yeah yeah I i don't i don't regret right
0:45:25reading either of these series that's
0:45:28good that's our new bra write books
0:45:30you're done you want those moments of
0:45:32your life back now we have a we should
0:45:35have our podcast later about you know
0:45:37books we regret like oh yeah that's on
0:45:39the left is one of those that's why
0:45:41maybe reading one area that's the
0:45:44problem ya series though because when
0:45:45with unfinished serious because then you
0:45:47get to the last book and you can
0:45:48retroactively Lee regret reading
0:45:49everything business last book just is
0:45:52completely crap
0:45:53excellent yes know what i will do a
0:45:57podcast that is books authors or series
0:46:01that we regret or refused to read it
0:46:04basically will be the the the 60-minute
0:46:07hate oh i watch that on CBS 150 minutes
0:46:12a CSI hate ya SI hay
0:46:15alright well we've covered 2,000 pages
0:46:19worth it only took us two thousand
0:46:20minutes so until next time on the book
0:46:24club where our topic will be if you'd
0:46:27like to read ahead the a4 mentioned
0:46:30ready player one not we'll share some
0:46:32pages long shirt no very short quick
0:46:34read sure to be a lot to talk about
0:46:36about that and then we'll cart back in
0:46:38what you're reading as well because we
0:46:41didn't have time to read anything else
0:46:42you're reading 2,000 page long fantasy
0:46:44novels about about Mitch's whatever not
0:46:49going to talk about what's his facebook
0:46:50stream d know we might talk about Neal
0:46:54Stephenson to i gotta finish reading the
0:46:56allstate speaking of a thousand-page but
0:46:58that's what I'm really right gotta get
0:46:59to it and finish reading ready player
0:47:01one first off
0:47:02yeah I'm in the midst I know it's hard
0:47:04to it's hard to read
0:47:06I never learned to read i have hired a
0:47:07guy to read through that he summarizes
0:47:10it for you know he sounds like this
0:47:14yes it's damned or in fact I the Dan
0:47:19morons title soundboard i actually just
0:47:21use that voice when reading 2 j's he
0:47:23calls me and reads me a chapter a night
0:47:24before I go to bed
0:47:26it pays great guys mm that's why you
0:47:28have no time
0:47:29that's why I have a job yeah alright so
0:47:33until we return with the another edition
0:47:35of the book club i would like to thank
0:47:37my guest John siracusa thank you for
0:47:38being here and talking about the good
0:47:41and the bad of patrick rothfuss very
0:47:43welcome
0:47:44ren called well thank you for being here
0:47:47and talking about 2,000 pages worth of
0:47:48fantasy it's always a pleasure
0:47:51Scott mcnoltey i'm glad you were here to
0:47:55provide your traditional wit and
0:47:57perspective
0:47:58well thank you i feel like this was a
0:47:59good podcast that exploded
0:48:02well it was a podcast of exploded that's
0:48:05every leaving SS and leaving is evident
0:48:07arts that's right leaving good parts
0:48:09scattered around amidst the wreckage and
0:48:13Dan Morgan thank you for being here as
0:48:16you are on practically every part make
0:48:19it sound like I don't have a life no
0:48:21your consistency reading where a
0:48:23consistent bandit you're too busy that
0:48:26is the name of my marbles consistent too
0:48:28busy recording podcaster read books
0:48:31sadly i'm reading a book right now as we
0:48:33are automatically claims a lot it does I
0:48:35alright until next time I Jason Snelling
0:48:39for the uncomfortable thanks for
0:48:40listening to buy always read read kids
0:48:44reading is fundamental stand school
0:48:48[Music]