The Incomparable

48: Can I Get Some Extra Dragons on That, Please?

 

  the incomparable podcast number for the [TS]

  eight delight well here and [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

  and we hope you like our recent two-part [TS]

  epic about Star Wars will try to get to [TS]

  the empire strikes back soon [TS]

  we promise but now we're going to talk [TS]

  about the just-concluded HBO series Game [TS]

  of Thrones based on the series of books [TS]

  by george RR martin and before we blow [TS]

  the spoiler horn what we're going to say [TS]

  is we're going to talk about the first [TS]

  season of Game of Thrones on HBO the [TS]

  first 10 episodes and we're going to [TS]

  related talk about that first novel a [TS]

  game of thrones by george RR martin [TS]

  we're not going to talk about what [TS]

  happens after that first book after the [TS]

  first season of the show so if you're [TS]

  riding along with the show or the first [TS]

  book and you don't want to know what [TS]

  happens [TS]

  this should be a safe zone for you were [TS]

  not come and try to spoil you [TS]

  I'm Jason Snelling hosted the [TS]

  incomparable joining me today are a [TS]

  great large collection of people who [TS]

  want to talk about Game of Thrones let's [TS]

  start with the the sniper of podcast [TS]

  comedy himself Scott McNulty hi Scott [TS]

  hello good to have you here Dan more'n [TS]

  also joins us because he's on every [TS]

  incomparable podcast I damn Ned Stark [TS]

  forever [TS]

  hi hi hi you're not already called will [TS]

  also joins us from the good city of San [TS]

  Francisco hi Winterfell Winterfell hello [TS]

  hello hello John syracuse joins us from [TS]

  the wilds of Massachusetts I John [TS]

  greetings everybody and special guest [TS]

  making his first appearance on the [TS]

  incomparable Monty Ashley who recapped [TS]

  game of thrones for the website [TS]

  television without pity and also a [TS]

  college friend of mine haimanti hello [TS]

  welcome those two twins which to the [TS]

  twins the twist [TS]

  no they're not they're not every with [TS]

  that would have been awkward [TS]

  they would be though they did horrible [TS]

  things that women should not do to [TS]

  another that would be what we can't have [TS]

  spoiled the future episode when it's [TS]

  revealed no they're twins so so i think [TS]

  that the one of the pressing questions [TS]

  about this show from the beginning from [TS]

  when we heard it was going to come on [TS]

  was how would you adapt [TS]

  this novel this kind of sweeping in some [TS]

  ways intentionally unfilmable novel it [TS]

  and turn it into a TV show now they had [TS]

  10 hours to do it instead of a two-hour [TS]

  movie but still there's a lot of stuff [TS]

  packed into that book there are a lot of [TS]

  a lot of backstory there so many [TS]

  characters so I you know first off I'd [TS]

  say what do you guys think about how [TS]

  they first first actually let's take a [TS]

  survey here how many of you have you all [TS]

  read the book [TS]

  indeed razor has yes my hands I have not [TS]

  read the book [TS]

  ok to John Syracuse's our control [TS]

  control subjects such as I could be [TS]

  alright so so for those of you who have [TS]

  read the books i'm curious what you [TS]

  think about how the show handled at [TS]

  adapting the book and if it did a good [TS]

  job or if perhaps even surpassed the [TS]

  book in some way let's start with Monty [TS]

  I thought the show was actually better [TS]

  than the books and that I didn't like [TS]

  the books at all the books I felt were [TS]

  long and rambly i felt i had read 3,000 [TS]

  pages and I was not invested in anything [TS]

  that was happening and I didn't care who [TS]

  died next whereas on the show even [TS]

  though i'd read the first book I [TS]

  couldn't wait for the next episode to [TS]

  see what was going to happen and I think [TS]

  part of that is because it [TS]

  the show is a lot less vague and you can [TS]

  actually see what's happening with [TS]

  different characters when you did the [TS]

  spoiler horn right [TS]

  yes the songs for has been fired when [TS]

  they died we actually have to see there [TS]

  it is [TS]

  huawei descended not Ned Stark a [TS]

  different net head flavors when Ned [TS]

  Flanders know what [TS]

  well the simpsons now when they died [TS]

  you can see how everyone reacted there's [TS]

  no vagueness about whether Cersei wanted [TS]

  this to happen [TS]

  you saw her freak out and tell Joffrey [TS]

  to knock it off and that sort of thing I [TS]

  gave me a much better feel for what was [TS]

  happening on the show actually that what [TS]

  is a wren Dan Scott what do you guys [TS]

  think definitely well I mean you get the [TS]

  the picture very clearly that I Joffrey [TS]

  is basically going off his rocker and [TS]

  being like I'm going to just do [TS]

  as and screw whatever my mother is a [TS]

  range and you get that in an instant [TS]

  which is bigger haha yeah and the camera [TS]

  angle or great [TS]

  well I I mean I think you know button by [TS]

  necessity they have to cut a lot of [TS]

  stuff down right and they sort of [TS]

  trimmed it and and honed it to a point i [TS]

  think which works great i mean like [TS]

  television you know movies and books are [TS]

  obviously very distinct genres are [TS]

  things you can do in either that you [TS]

  can't do in the other but i think that [TS]

  they you know they took what would make [TS]

  a good you know a good television show [TS]

  out of the book and as such because you [TS]

  know it is still a huge investment [TS]

  obviously time it's 10 hours but it [TS]

  feels in some ways less of a time sink [TS]

  than reading a multi-hundred page looks [TS]

  as if this is someone who likes the [TS]

  books and thinks that the books did a [TS]

  good job for four books that they were [TS]

  in that you know this is sort of an epic [TS]

  fantasy series and as someone who enjoys [TS]

  reading those I thought it did an [TS]

  excellent job with that but also you [TS]

  know it's hard to walk that path of of [TS]

  adapting such well-known source material [TS]

  and I think they did they did a quite [TS]

  adept job at it for a variety of reasons [TS]

  got well i think you know the the kind [TS]

  of people who read giant fantasy books [TS]

  are the kind of people who want to revel [TS]

  in the details and you know know about [TS]

  all the history of the houses and all [TS]

  that crap and the kind of people who I [TS]

  say crap and lovingly and so when you're [TS]

  developing a show that you just have to [TS]

  cut to the bare bones right and and just [TS]

  boil it down to the central plot points [TS]

  and if it's on HBO and naked people and [TS]

  you're done and I think they did that is [TS]

  accomplished [TS]

  well i think in reading one of the [TS]

  interviews with george RR martin he [TS]

  talks about how in some ways this was I [TS]

  think I mentioned this in our podcast [TS]

  about the books in some ways this was [TS]

  his take on something like a historical [TS]

  event like the war of the roses and and [TS]

  it within watching the TV show I almost [TS]

  felt like what we were seeing was the [TS]

  source material was like a history book [TS]

  that had lots of detail and that then [TS]

  the people come in and say well that's [TS]

  the story that was the history of how do [TS]

  we tell a TV show based on this and and [TS]

  so did get simplified and in clarified [TS]

  in some ways and and I do think that was [TS]

  successful and it's the same [TS]

  the way that you know you take something [TS]

  like like lord of the rings right which [TS]

  is again has this incredibly you know [TS]

  deep rich history behind it but have you [TS]

  know history doesn't always make a super [TS]

  interesting movie or TV show you say [TS]

  that now we just wait until Peter [TS]

  Jackson does the silmarillion okay man [TS]

  I'm right on the edge of my seat maybe [TS]

  I'll finally finished reading that book [TS]

  and finish my eighth grade book report [TS]

  but I you know there's something to you [TS]

  gotta change it it's got to be a little [TS]

  more cohesive that the narrative [TS]

  structure has to change a little bit [TS]

  because you're building for these axons [TS]

  individual episodes but you know overall [TS]

  again I think they did a great job with [TS]

  it and I you know I i want to tip you [TS]

  know a large part of my hat to the [TS]

  casting which is just an HBO is shown [TS]

  themselves to be just awesome where [TS]

  they're casting directors are they just [TS]

  they are great across-the-board because [TS]

  they do such a fantastic job of picking [TS]

  the right people for the part and there [TS]

  were so many cases in this where you [TS]

  know having read the book and picture to [TS]

  character a certain way even if it [TS]

  wasn't like exactly a hundred percent [TS]

  right you can you look at the characters [TS]

  and be like yep [TS]

  yeah that's basically what that guy [TS]

  looks like all right we'll get back to [TS]

  the casting because I do want to talk [TS]

  about the the actors in this but first i [TS]

  want to go to our control group john [TS]

  siracusa who did not read the book my [TS]

  wife also didn't read the book and it [TS]

  was fascinating to watch her and [TS]

  occasionally I would explain something [TS]

  but generally you know she got it she [TS]

  you know it like watching the wire or [TS]

  something like that you know not to [TS]

  compare it to the wire John easy easy [TS]

  but it's like that innocence that the [TS]

  first few episodes they're getting [TS]

  ripped up and it's a little bit slower [TS]

  and there's a lot to digest [TS]

  by the end she was really satisfied with [TS]

  it's not John you know how about you how [TS]

  was your take on it not having read the [TS]

  books you know just because you didn't [TS]

  read the book doesn't mean you can't [TS]

  tell if it's a good adaptation or not I [TS]

  have just thinking about this was [TS]

  watching it you may be uniquely able to [TS]

  tell us because you didn't have to deal [TS]

  with about it all here here are i'll [TS]

  give you a system this two ways you can [TS]

  do a time elapsing in the story you can [TS]

  do the big jump or you show that the [TS]

  little kid and he has some trauma [TS]

  experienced me as a child and then you [TS]

  jump forward and he's like a young man [TS]

  right that's the big jump dissolved to [TS]

  Israel a teenager [TS]

  yes or you can do the small series of [TS]

  steps with logical connections between [TS]

  bad adaptations happen when they there [TS]

  in that middle ground where they have to [TS]

  cut stuff out of the book it's not long [TS]

  enough to be a dissolved change scenery [TS]

  now he's a man type of thing but it's [TS]

  not short enough for you to be able to [TS]

  connect the dots of like what I just saw [TS]

  that guy and he was like cowardly and me [TS]

  and he was when he was talking to this [TS]

  person they had this relationship and [TS]

  now three scenes later they seem to have [TS]

  a totally different relationship and [TS]

  then they try to stick in lines of [TS]

  dialogue do remember you know two years [TS]

  ago I got over my fear of you and we had [TS]

  a battle that was not included in this [TS]

  out you know it seems disjointed an [TS]

  example i would give even though it [TS]

  doesn't have the character development [TS]

  problems probably because that much [TS]

  character development is the the recent [TS]

  series of harry potter movies I I always [TS]

  felt like there were gaps taken out and [TS]

  they weren't long enough where was a big [TS]

  transition period of the people's lives [TS]

  but they weren't short enough it from [TS]

  one thing to the next would be like all [TS]

  wait a second what are we supposed to be [TS]

  concerned about something like you would [TS]

  feel things missing and a game of [TS]

  thrones they seem to whatever they cut [TS]

  out i didn't notice where the holes [TS]

  where it just seemed like everything [TS]

  logically followed from the other and [TS]

  there wasn't a lot of people having to [TS]

  do exposition to explain their own [TS]

  motivations or events that were not seen [TS]

  on camera or whatever so the stuff they [TS]

  cut out thumbs up because i don't think [TS]

  you needed it and what exposition there [TS]

  was was done while people were naked [TS]

  yeah I remember that never hurts like [TS]

  except for that old dude [TS]

  although that was really funny right [TS]

  because it seems like a random scene but [TS]

  then you realize that what they're [TS]

  really showing is that it's all it's all [TS]

  put on and he actually is spryer than [TS]

  than that but yes make it explanation is [TS]

  that is an actor is great too i bet [TS]

  that's probably the best thing he's ever [TS]

  done in his entire acting career and he [TS]

  was in Indiana Jones and the Last [TS]

  Crusade and Empire I know but was he was [TS]

  he doing naked squats with it with a [TS]

  negative actress in the room no they did [TS]

  not ask general veers to do that now [TS]

  they showed he was physically spryer [TS]

  than you thought [TS]

  but he's also the only person actually [TS]

  supporting Joffrey at the whole [TS]

  heartedly at this point I think right is [TS]

  he or is he saying that because he knows [TS]

  that the girl is a spy for I don't know [TS]

  which one varistor Littlefinger I don't [TS]

  know who can tell i would not be [TS]

  the game of thrones all the whores work [TS]

  for Tommy Carcetti that's right they see [TS]

  more wire rozell some more [TS]

  that's amazing uh it is the HBO HBO [TS]

  Actors Guild they all get parts in [TS]

  various HBO rules and John otherwise as [TS]

  a as a novice to the game of thrones [TS]

  series just going in cold as a as a [TS]

  viewer to hold together too long you [TS]

  know make sense [TS]

  see we you know we satisfied by this [TS]

  thing is a complete blank slate [TS]

  yeah i mean you could see that they had [TS]

  to do they opened the Series with sort [TS]

  of the overarching mythos of winter and [TS]

  those white riders and stuff like that [TS]

  and then a great quickly move away from [TS]

  that to get you settled into the world [TS]

  that is threatened by that thing I guess [TS]

  it's kind of a season one thing where [TS]

  you have to establish what I assume is [TS]

  going to be the larger arc story and [TS]

  then quickly go inside well here's the [TS]

  world is threatened and let me get you [TS]

  involved in that world so that when it [TS]

  becomes threatened lay there or you know [TS]

  you'll be more invested in it so that [TS]

  was a little bit awkward transitioning [TS]

  from is this a series about the wall [TS]

  nothing straightening the wall or is [TS]

  this is serious about people fighting [TS]

  over is going to be king of the other [TS]

  parts in which senses it's actually a [TS]

  very faithful representation of the book [TS]

  because that's basically exactly how the [TS]

  book but it is interesting it is the [TS]

  message there is that the you know you [TS]

  you're seeing this fantasy series in the [TS]

  first scene has got something [TS]

  supernatural limit and then you forget [TS]

  in many ways that that you saw that and [TS]

  it's all there's not a lot of magic in [TS]

  especially in this first season there's [TS]

  really very little magic until you get [TS]

  to the last couple of episodes and I [TS]

  feel like that first scene is there to [TS]

  tell you yes yes that there are magical [TS]

  things that are going to happen just not [TS]

  for a while yet and that's how george RR [TS]

  martin has structured the whole story [TS]

  right because he starts off at the wall [TS]

  and it's very it's a big imposing thing [TS]

  and you think oh my god this is [TS]

  important and these people are doing [TS]

  important work keeping the Seven [TS]

  Kingdoms safe and then you find out that [TS]

  they send the dregs of humanity up there [TS]

  and they just don't want to think about [TS]

  it and behind that wall is you know [TS]

  magical things and all kinds of nasty [TS]

  things that no one wants to think about [TS]

  so they just think about this little [TS]

  game of thrones that they are playing [TS]

  while the whole time you know [TS]

  who knows what's gathered i think i [TS]

  think Hogwarts is above the wall right [TS]

  yes yeah listen already at land of [TS]

  eternal winter up there right [TS]

  that's good now i want to thank you [TS]

  light that they ever address why things [TS]

  can't walk around the wall it's really [TS]

  big that sits along and no around and [TS]

  not over it just go to the end and then [TS]

  walk its its end-to-end isn't it I mean [TS]

  goes from ocean to ocean yeah ocean to [TS]

  ocean right by the ocean is like three [TS]

  feet deep at the short walk up to your [TS]

  waist [TS]

  I don't think so i think it goes further [TS]

  than that there's this geography haven't [TS]

  you didn't watch the opening credits [TS]

  every day but they have but they have [TS]

  boat started there there there John John [TS]

  they're White Walkers not wait swimmers [TS]

  ok just like the Dothraki are afraid of [TS]

  swimming so our way Walker's that's [TS]

  right it has made me realize their major [TS]

  political implications white floaties [TS]

  let's talk a little bit about the actors [TS]

  in the casting dan mentioned it earlier [TS]

  you know III it really is tough to try [TS]

  him and cast of characters an adaptation [TS]

  especially when the when the books have [TS]

  such fans but i have to say i think in [TS]

  general they did a really good job in [TS]

  fact nailed it and come on [TS]

  I i have a couple equivalent but they're [TS]

  they're so offset by the positives that [TS]

  you know I mean let's start [TS]

  I mean yeah everybody can throw out a [TS]

  favorite if they if they've got it made [TS]

  everybody is waiting so Peter Dinklage [TS]

  let's talk about that that's the best [TS]

  character in the books [TS]

  it's he does a great job although I will [TS]

  say his accent is atrocious all gets [TS]

  better but it starts out it's really [TS]

  really bad but he's still got but he's [TS]

  got the manor down oh yeah completely [TS]

  great character and he does he nails it [TS]

  he does other than the accent which I [TS]

  feel like even by the end of the series [TS]

  I felt like he was better with the [TS]

  accent that he had to struggle with that [TS]

  a little bit but such a great character [TS]

  and perfect casting right when i heard [TS]

  that he was cast I thought well that's [TS]

  it and Tyrion Lannister is just a you [TS]

  know that's just a fantastic character [TS]

  so that was that was yeah that's like in [TS]

  a great his speech in the Eyrie [TS]

  especially his entire yeah i'm going to [TS]

  confess to [TS]

  like crimes and just the way through [TS]

  that out and played it so specifically [TS]

  was fantastic [TS]

  it's like a weird Perry Mason episode [TS]

  where except the judge would have to be [TS]

  nursing a nine-year-old gotta venture [TS]

  something that was that was creepy [TS]

  I saw that episode of Perry Mason meant [TS]

  as weird as creepier than I then I [TS]

  thought creepier than I thought the the [TS]

  the the Lord of the Aerie nursing on [TS]

  this mom creepier than the books ever [TS]

  made it out to be yeah there's a house [TS]

  that was pretty creepy in the books [TS]

  yeah but you didn't get this see how old [TS]

  he was yeah yeah there's that whatever [TS]

  is the picture in your mind you can't [TS]

  really picture and eight-year-old [TS]

  suckling at his mother's breasts until [TS]

  you see it on the screen and then its [TS]

  just oh in in HD so in terms of the the [TS]

  the headliners i'm sean bean no stranger [TS]

  to fantasy from Lord of the Rings they [TS]

  bring him in as the essentially the lead [TS]

  character except those supposed to read [TS]

  the book knew what was coming and it was [TS]

  going to be a one-season gig for him but [TS]

  I thought he did a really good job [TS]

  ya know he's very solid he's the one [TS]

  honest man right like that's the moment [TS]

  that supply and in that sense you know [TS]

  kind of the opposite of his of his [TS]

  warlords and Kings character that you [TS]

  and I was watching it with my wife when [TS]

  she could bear to watch it because she [TS]

  cannot handle tense violent shows so she [TS]

  was half most like five minutes when she [TS]

  was watching the show she kept saying [TS]

  why is he so stupid [TS]

  he's not stupid he is just honest he's [TS]

  the only one right exactly [TS]

  I love I can I just say one thing that i [TS]

  absolutely love about the last episode [TS]

  with Ned and with the whole you know [TS]

  getting his head getting beheaded and [TS]

  all that fun stuff for is when he looks [TS]

  and sees Aria on the on the mountain he [TS]

  looks and he sees her and there's it's [TS]

  obvious it's not a detailed it's in the [TS]

  books because it's from Mario's [TS]

  perspective as i remember not not for [TS]

  meds but he looks and he sees her and [TS]

  it's the last thing he sees before he [TS]

  gets beheaded as he looks and he doesn't [TS]

  see her on the on the platform anymore [TS]

  on the mountain anymore and that's like [TS]

  I know that that moment specifically [TS]

  just grabbed me [TS]

  it's a moment of [TS]

  hope which is not really you know big in [TS]

  the books no there's no I'm still alive [TS]

  and and he set the message that where [TS]

  she is so that they can go getter and [TS]

  hopefully spirit her away right that [TS]

  certain last his last gasp you know give [TS]

  them props to for the the kid the [TS]

  children actors for the most part I [TS]

  think you re especially who is one of [TS]

  another one of my favorite characters [TS]

  from the books are you think they had a [TS]

  they had a very nice [TS]

  they did a great job with her too she [TS]

  was great she's got all those scenes [TS]

  with the the fencing master with Syria [TS]

  florell are excellent that's a good [TS]

  little minor character who was well [TS]

  welcome [TS]

  he's so while cast the attitude i love [TS]

  area but they keep having seen four [TS]

  people say she looks like a boy and the [TS]

  actress doesn't look like a boy [TS]

  yeah that's tough because I mean that is [TS]

  a necessity in in the books right like [TS]

  the end there you started like they're [TS]

  basically making her pass for a boy [TS]

  unfortunately she's not she's not the [TS]

  most boyish of actresses yea big steak [TS]

  cut her hair and makeup yeah they gotta [TS]

  like put mud on her face or something [TS]

  and yeah they're hoping that the bigger [TS]

  eyebrows we're going let's just put [TS]

  extra eyebrow pencil and that will [TS]

  totally make her not look feminine [TS]

  although that that's um that's a scene [TS]

  from the beginning of the second book i [TS]

  believe i think they actually did push a [TS]

  few scenes from the second book into the [TS]

  last episode resolved certain storylines [TS]

  are you know it's it's structured again [TS]

  I'm gonna go back to the wire one of the [TS]

  things that I really liked about the [TS]

  wire is that the every all the big [TS]

  events happen to need an ultimate [TS]

  episode of the season [TS]

  that's where the bloodbath happened in [TS]

  Game of Thrones that's when Ned gets his [TS]

  head chopped off and then the last [TS]

  episode is like the fallout and day [TS]

  tomorrow and I i really like that and I [TS]

  like that about the wire and I like that [TS]

  I i think it was probably consciously [TS]

  model that way by the producers a game [TS]

  of thrones to have that shifting of [TS]

  gears the fallout the set up for the [TS]

  next season and it's funny that they [TS]

  actually pulled a couple of scenes from [TS]

  the second book forward but it's great [TS]

  because it gets Aria out of the town you [TS]

  see that she got out that she's on this [TS]

  new journey that's going to be [TS]

  presumably perilous and you know I [TS]

  thought that was good and the actor who [TS]

  plays Arya's fantastic even though she [TS]

  is is not boyish really just probably [TS]

  wonder the actress who plays sands [TS]

  it's actually quite do so let's talk [TS]

  about Sansa is an annoying character in [TS]

  the book and she says no and character [TS]

  in the TV show although my wife was just [TS]

  telling me before we started recording [TS]

  this that the last couple episodes you [TS]

  see that the actress will play Santa has [TS]

  some skills and they give her some [TS]

  things to do in and she does a good job [TS]

  but she's playing such an unsympathetic [TS]

  character up to that point she's playing [TS]

  I'm unsympathetic character but at the [TS]

  same time I mean she's playing it so [TS]

  well and so to the point where it's like [TS]

  you you just especially in the scene [TS]

  with Joffrey and like what is it episode [TS]

  seven or eight when he comes to [TS]

  apologize to her that hole where she's [TS]

  being just could complete bitch to the [TS]

  to the septa that that combination of [TS]

  scenes just shows you know her range [TS]

  when she gets some growth in at the end [TS]

  to write that brief moment in that live [TS]

  in the last episode I was very last [TS]

  scene where she's completely pale while [TS]

  the one where she the when will Joffrey [TS]

  takes her to cnet's hello and you get [TS]

  that brief moment of the I mean [TS]

  basically contemplate like throwing them [TS]

  off the bridge right yeah I can grab and [TS]

  makeup off and we were both be dead [TS]

  right and like you I mean that's it [TS]

  that's a big moment for her right [TS]

  because you know she's been very she's [TS]

  been very complicit up until that point [TS]

  and so it was a nice moment and it shows [TS]

  the range and I I'd really actually like [TS]

  the interaction with her in the house [TS]

  there too at the edges [TS]

  well he's saving her or is he condemning [TS]

  her right it's a little bit of both and [TS]

  is he doing it for her for the king [TS]

  it's all kind of you know who knows [TS]

  what's going on there in a way senses [TS]

  basic flaws the same as Ned's is that [TS]

  she's too naive [TS]

  she seems to me to have totally bought [TS]

  into the idea that you'll just become a [TS]

  princess and marry the king and then be [TS]

  Queen Sansa and everything will be [TS]

  ponies and unicorns forever [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah especially Caesar [TS]

  traditional fantasy character in many [TS]

  ways right and look what Kepler naive [TS]

  yet knew the rules of the game he just [TS]

  refused to play it so he knew he was [TS]

  more or less doomed he knew how things [TS]

  were I mean he knew when he got the [TS]

  offer come be the hand of the king he [TS]

  knew like this sucks basically and this [TS]

  will not end well [TS]

  probably for me but he does it out of a [TS]

  sense of honor and everything he does [TS]

  when he's there he doesn't have a sense [TS]

  of honor even though he knows full well [TS]

  how badly is gonna go where sonza really [TS]

  has no idea [TS]

  the world actually works there's a great [TS]

  line where she says too seriously that [TS]

  she's going to be a queen like her and [TS]

  it's like oh honey you're not going to [TS]

  be a queen like her I think she just [TS]

  doesn't know what property she's in on [TS]

  on Sansa and the casting not having read [TS]

  the book interesting thing about the [TS]

  casting was that very early on in the [TS]

  the episodes i was trying to determine [TS]

  which one of these characters are [TS]

  suppose I am I supposed to be [TS]

  sympathizing with like which are the [TS]

  good guys and bad guys more or less [TS]

  United mean I and a lot of it had to do [TS]

  with the actor so for example Tyrion now [TS]

  Terry and I was immediately attracted to [TS]

  Tyrion but the things they had him do [TS]

  were not very good so it's like well it [TS]

  is this character in the book proposed [TS]

  to be evil but this actor is just [TS]

  charming the pants off me because he's [TS]

  such a good actor right or is like is [TS]

  that the character and the same goes for [TS]

  everybody else like Sansa is she really [TS]

  supposed to be this annoying am I [TS]

  supposed to hate her or suggest the [TS]

  performance you know so I'm trying to [TS]

  gauge by like how much do I like the [TS]

  actor is does that mean that this [TS]

  character is going to be a good guy in [TS]

  the stories and that was a fascinating [TS]

  thing it shows that the characters [TS]

  aren't cut and dry like you couldn't say [TS]

  good guy bad guy got everybody has their [TS]

  own problems and i think i carried [TS]

  through the whole season even towards [TS]

  the end of it I'm like I still don't [TS]

  know what the characterization of these [TS]

  people in this book series is but i [TS]

  decided i like tyrion no matter what I [TS]

  think I think you actually that shows [TS]

  that you got the desired effect because [TS]

  the books are very similar and one that [TS]

  may perhaps my favorite thing about the [TS]

  books and I've read the football [TS]

  whatever four books of them is is that [TS]

  every time you think that you've got a [TS]

  character and you've got them in a hole [TS]

  like I'm rooting for them I'm not [TS]

  rooting for them you realize oh no they [TS]

  did something terrible or they did [TS]

  something good and Tyrion is the best [TS]

  example right he's a Lannister he does [TS]

  these you know he does these awful [TS]

  things but at the same time he's funny [TS]

  he's smart [TS]

  you get the sense that he's sort of [TS]

  doing terrible things out of family [TS]

  obligations to like like net in some [TS]

  ways and I think that's the strongest [TS]

  thing about these these characters in [TS]

  this story is that is that it's hard to [TS]

  pigeonhole them as good guys and bad [TS]

  guys and although in the first season [TS]

  and the way they're portrayed it is a [TS]

  lot harder to find any sympathy for [TS]

  seriously and and and Jaime Lannister or [TS]

  job and I mean that [TS]

  you are Jeffrey but I mean that again [TS]

  you're speaking to speaking to the [TS]

  actors Joffrey doesn't look like it's me [TS]

  again note perfect right you're supposed [TS]

  to load him he is like just a terrible [TS]

  loathsome individual and I can be draco [TS]

  malfoy smart right that's so smart me [TS]

  about it and like I think you've totally [TS]

  get that I think that guy you know the [TS]

  performance there was excellent in that [TS]

  it's like he just brought out every [TS]

  thing that you hate about that character [TS]

  he could he could not be he cannot be [TS]

  drinking mouthwash i want to point this [TS]

  out that even the characters that you [TS]

  hate that's why I brought up seconds [TS]

  like sands are even Joffrey those [TS]

  characters all have sympathetic moments [TS]

  as opposed to drag the left Ruiz is just [TS]

  a cartoon right because we gotta you [TS]

  know you feel for Joffrey when he tries [TS]

  to when he gets you know choose hand [TS]

  Troodon because he was trying to be the [TS]

  big man he so clearly isn't these fit is [TS]

  basically failing to impress a girl [TS]

  that's a sympathetic thing it's not [TS]

  doesn't excuse his later behavior but [TS]

  you understand why is why is he like [TS]

  this why is he so angry and mean it's [TS]

  because he's had you know he's not [TS]

  successful at becoming a man on high-end [TS]

  on his own terms [TS]

  same thing with Santa who would like is [TS]

  naive and you're like well I'm kinda [TS]

  disgusted with our vacations naive but [TS]

  she's mostly just an innocent you feel [TS]

  for when she sees her father's head get [TS]

  cut off and you know later has to look [TS]

  at the head on a pike and consider [TS]

  throwing yourself off the bridge [TS]

  everybody is sympathetic in ways that [TS]

  for example draco malfoy is mostly not [TS]

  in the movies anyway I don't know about [TS]

  the books and that's why I like you for [TS]

  example i wouldn't be shocked if someone [TS]

  said well you know sounds is actually [TS]

  the hero of the third book because she [TS]

  grows into this great Queen you know [TS]

  about like you can foresee any possible [TS]

  future for all the people involved and [TS]

  some of them had that are controversies [TS]

  and like what's-her-name generis [TS]

  obviously over she starts off in the [TS]

  season where she ends a very different [TS]

  feel like I can see that arc for anybody [TS]

  pick any character and if you told me [TS]

  that like some in some distant future [TS]

  they are very important and a good guy [TS]

  be rooting for I would believe it a [TS]

  hundred percent [TS]

  ok let's go across the Narrow Sea then [TS]

  and talk about the Daenerys Targaryen [TS]

  story which is was shot i think [TS]

  completely separately in in the [TS]

  Mediterranean most of the series was [TS]

  shot in Northern Ireland but some of it [TS]

  a shot and the Mediterranean to get that [TS]

  kind of desert you feel you know there [TS]

  are a couple crossovers that happen but [TS]

  it's basically [TS]

  the self-contained story and and to [TS]

  John's point such a great journey [TS]

  because when you meet her first off you [TS]

  don't know whether she is the focus [TS]

  because there's this horselord hurt her [TS]

  brother right Harry Lloyd place her [TS]

  brother and you think well he's the he's [TS]

  the dragon he's gonna come back and she [TS]

  and she gets sold to the horse Lord and [TS]

  she basically gets raped on her wedding [TS]

  night your it was what the hell is this [TS]

  and by the end she has basically kicked [TS]

  everybody's ass and and I I think it's a [TS]

  great i think that was great casting she [TS]

  was actually recast they were somebody [TS]

  else in the pilot may they replaced her [TS]

  and in the end I think that was a great [TS]

  character but I you know i'm i'm curious [TS]

  what you guys thought about that whole [TS]

  really kind of separate story thread [TS]

  that was going on throughout you know I [TS]

  was really skeptical about her at first [TS]

  the actress in the first and the first [TS]

  episode I was kind of like yeah I mean [TS]

  she doesn't she's really get to say much [TS]

  and but as the as the entire season [TS]

  progressed I mean I would say the [TS]

  actress crew as much as the character [TS]

  and it was really kind of astonishing to [TS]

  watch like you really believe that she [TS]

  was transitioning from this naive [TS]

  awkward girl into basically a queen what [TS]

  you needed to be maybe she was just that [TS]

  good i don't know but it's definitely [TS]

  felt that progression [TS]

  yeah i just never I was never sure if I [TS]

  like to her not as a character in the [TS]

  books and I still I feel very similarly [TS]

  with John saying I feel very ambivalent [TS]

  about her in many ways her whole [TS]

  storyline is my least favorite part of [TS]

  the books whenever whenever i'm reading [TS]

  about her and just impatient to get back [TS]

  to all this other stuff right right went [TS]

  back to court and so injury so but money [TS]

  so what you feel about it in the TV show [TS]

  how did you feel less of that [TS]

  yeah because watching somebody do it I [TS]

  can't skip over it it in the book is [TS]

  kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy [TS]

  I read the first page to go oh this is [TS]

  another dairy section so I've got 20 [TS]

  pages of this boring flip flip flip [TS]

  boring a teary and saying something cool [TS]

  again remember the fun stuff but what I [TS]

  want to sit down and watch it then it's [TS]

  more fun [TS]

  yeah there were some nice you know the [TS]

  the horse people are again I'm calling [TS]

  the horse people they're not half-man [TS]

  half-horse they just ride horses but the [TS]

  horse people and call Drogo which you [TS]

  know another piece of good cast yeah [TS]

  good casting [TS]

  it's gonna be great as Conan don't you [TS]

  think yeah it's very cold in and he [TS]

  doesn't even get to speak a word from [TS]

  what like two words of English on that i [TS]

  was going on [TS]

  well this right here they they hired a [TS]

  linguist to invent the whole Dothraki [TS]

  language so it is it like click on it is [TS]

  this invented artificial variable intake [TS]

  on bridge now it's not like going on [TS]

  no well it means like Leon and in the [TS]

  sense that they actually bought out the [TS]

  whole grammar in the EMA and the dialect [TS]

  and everything and didn't just sort of [TS]

  like makeup wacky words to have them say [TS]

  but that's the internet some interesting [TS]

  playing on has a long and storied [TS]

  history but this will see yes we'll see [TS]

  if people are speaking to raqi and [TS]

  whatever that's right i don't think [TS]

  anyone should be going to dose rocky [TS]

  camp in 20 years [TS]

  no we'll see about that Scott we'll see [TS]

  about that [TS]

  any other thoughts about that storyline [TS]

  i think that the you know I John were [TS]

  you surprised at how that ended because [TS]

  you know she was being set up to have [TS]

  the baby without i thought i was telling [TS]

  some of those eggs appeared and like [TS]

  episode who you're kinda like the ball [TS]

  you can see where this is your only with [TS]

  the eggs yet the only thing that [TS]

  surprised me is that I was surprised [TS]

  that the Drogo dropped out as soon as he [TS]

  did I you always knew that she would [TS]

  grow it to be the queen and your stupid [TS]

  eggs are gonna hatch instead of just [TS]

  sitting there and every episode and you [TS]

  knew that she would come into her power [TS]

  or whatever when she's doing that [TS]

  putting the egg and on the fire and [TS]

  stuff like that but I thought Drogo [TS]

  would be there alongside her because why [TS]

  not i mean she could be a powerful Queen [TS]

  alongside him and you know they could be [TS]

  equals and rule together but it turns [TS]

  out the horselords are not the [TS]

  antibiotic Lord's and He ya somethin [TS]

  nicely brutal about that that whole [TS]

  section across the sea you were saying [TS]

  that they started the Mediterranean I I [TS]

  thought that the sets and the settings [TS]

  who didn't look as impressive maybe it's [TS]

  because they're harder to do it didn't [TS]

  look as impressive as for example [TS]

  Winterfell I guess maybe it's easier to [TS]

  do stone castles and snow that it is to [TS]

  do desert sand Sun in the Mediterranean [TS]

  but it the cast felt the weaker there [TS]

  weren't as many strong characters over [TS]

  there across the sea that was like three [TS]

  or four when you have like dozens on the [TS]

  other side right and the settings looks [TS]

  more kind of TV at but maybe they did [TS]

  some stuff indoors [TS]

  they should have done outdoors I don't [TS]

  know what it was but that that threw me [TS]

  off a little bit i did feel a little [TS]

  like oh we're going across the sea well [TS]

  that's not being that interesting but [TS]

  one stroke or really started to become a [TS]

  character and that interaction between [TS]

  them started and you got the whiny [TS]

  blonde dude out of the way with this [TS]

  horrible dyed hair then across the same [TS]

  stuff started to kyle and you know and [TS]

  and it's i did like the fact that it was [TS]

  this other it was like that was taking [TS]

  place at the wall this other thing [TS]

  that's an existential threat to the [TS]

  games that are going on between the the [TS]

  people who are fighting it out in their [TS]

  little circle so you've got the wall [TS]

  which we don't talk about much we have [TS]

  head as he's doing across the sea and [TS]

  there the outside threat that you have [TS]

  to worry about the only people talking [TS]

  about them is the what's-his-name the [TS]

  ball dude and Kings Landing he's the [TS]

  only one who seems even remotely [TS]

  concerned that these guys are going to [TS]

  come across the sea and and kill them [TS]

  all right I think that's one of the nice [TS]

  things about the setup right is this [TS]

  multipolar world it's not as if they're [TS]

  too cool you know that the the people of [TS]

  Westeros are gonna clash with the people [TS]

  across the sea because then there's the [TS]

  wall and then they're fighting each [TS]

  other and like I what's gonna happen Who [TS]

  am I supposed to even pull for here it's [TS]

  a mess [TS]

  running to the Dragons it go your team [TS]

  dragon go dragons I'm dragon alright and [TS]

  a nice word about the court in general [TS]

  which i think you know [TS]

  marikar city as little finger and [TS]

  whoever they got to play various i think [TS]

  also also very apt casting and anytime [TS]

  that I love that little guys together uh [TS]

  yeah that always the last episode of [TS]

  them that's cop was significant schemers [TS]

  with the power behind the throne right [TS]

  the people who know everybody and got [TS]

  have everybody planted everywhere and [TS]

  you know in the book I felt that that [TS]

  was seeing that especially various but [TS]

  seeing those two guys screaming like [TS]

  that on on the screen felt more tangible [TS]

  to me in some ways that like you know [TS]

  because you can sort of see them hanging [TS]

  back there at the edge of the scene you [TS]

  know that they're up to something i [TS]

  really like that I thought that was and [TS]

  which one do you trust you [TS]

  neither no no way now what about various [TS]

  came across much more in much more [TS]

  sympathetic to me in some ways I mean [TS]

  despite the fact that you know they is [TS]

  clearly you're still playing his own [TS]

  game [TS]

  you know what you know we don't get [TS]

  quite the moment of like gasps betrayal [TS]

  that we get from little finger right so [TS]

  let's talk about the Lannisters before [TS]

  we move move north seriously and Jay [TS]

  me who don't four important characters [TS]

  like Jaime Lannister doesn't have as [TS]

  much screen time as I think that I [TS]

  expected although I guess he just isn't [TS]

  in the first book as much we see more of [TS]

  him later no spoilers just you know [TS]

  he'll be back more than through other [TS]

  people's eyes right it rise the King's [TS]

  lair whatever the good good good casting [TS]

  on those I thought those the actors were [TS]

  both perfectly reasonable quite as our [TS]

  cost Sarah Connor did a great job but [TS]

  you can tell from Jaime Lannister's hair [TS]

  what character he is instantly like [TS]

  everybody else is many evil and most of [TS]

  the guys have like sean bean doesn't [TS]

  change how people can't shave it's just [TS]

  that manly the stubble is just cannot be [TS]

  destroyed but Jaime Lannister walks in [TS]

  his hair is perfect he's got gleaming [TS]

  armor he's a pretty boy pretty boy with [TS]

  a good sort and yeah yeah he's he's he's [TS]

  a sharp one [TS]

  so but that yeah and he was what she [TS]

  Sarah Connor and he was New Amsterdam [TS]

  write the answer in fox fox actors from [TS]

  cancelled fox series now welcome to HBO [TS]

  stepping and the little bit of Tywin [TS]

  that we get we don't get much of him but [TS]

  that only was my favorite [TS]

  here's my favorite Lannister because his [TS]

  introduction scene where he's cleaning [TS]

  an animal there are ya [TS]

  oh isn't it you know it's like here's a [TS]

  new character and you're gonna have [TS]

  you're gonna have to watch him yelling [TS]

  at his son [TS]

  well i think was the son wherever he was [TS]

  used yelling at while he cleans animal [TS]

  he was skimming a stag because it's [TS]

  symbolic sigh symbolic of Robert I just [TS]

  thought it was a good that was a good [TS]

  intro to the world because it you know [TS]

  present viewer they're assuming that [TS]

  you're going to be put off by the fact [TS]

  is clean this animal but you're also [TS]

  supposed to understand to the characters [TS]

  in the world this is this is about as [TS]

  dramatic is talking to someone with a [TS]

  sip a cup of coffee because this is just [TS]

  what you do in this world you know no [TS]

  one no one else in that scene was upset [TS]

  by him clean animal except you're like [TS]

  the rich he's the richest guy in the [TS]

  Seven Kingdoms like he could have [TS]

  someone do that for him right [TS]

  like it means something that he does it [TS]

  himself matter of principle here you [TS]

  want it done right [TS]

  he's like that kind of guy echoes Ned [TS]

  coming off the head of the deserter [TS]

  right i mean it's not like I'm gonna do [TS]

  this myself [TS]

  this is my business so uh we should also [TS]

  talk a moment about [TS]

  mark addy as King Robert who again meets [TS]

  an untimely end killed by a pig but in [TS]

  in the scenes that he has damn Cubs I [TS]

  Westeros pd I I thought about the wire I [TS]

  thought mark addy was was really good I [TS]

  liked him as the kind of you know king [TS]

  who maybe he's got regrets he has a few [TS]

  but then again he's fat and happy and [TS]

  drunk and has a you know beautiful wife [TS]

  who hates them and whatever go to esa [TS]

  see a word about that scene the scene [TS]

  with him in searcy where they talk about [TS]

  the fact that their marriages hold right [TS]

  which is not in the book [TS]

  no but it was such an awesome to see man [TS]

  let me leave that brief view of man if [TS]

  things had been different right like [TS]

  maybe this wouldn't have been so unhappy [TS]

  and maybe next week a lot of terrible [TS]

  things wouldn't happen but that was the [TS]

  way that it was meant to be and that's [TS]

  how it happened that made Cersei more [TS]

  sympathetic to the other scene where you [TS]

  see that he's not a pure evil caricature [TS]

  you know the only thing that keeps [TS]

  bringing me back to Jamie and seriously [TS]

  being evils of the incest think it's [TS]

  hard to look at last throwing the kid [TS]

  out the window [TS]

  well that's understandable that kid was [TS]

  annoying let's face it yet that was [TS]

  protect that was part of that was part [TS]

  of the incest thing where you know [TS]

  they're trying to protect their secrets [TS]

  just like that taint install their [TS]

  characters the Lannisters what a great [TS]

  family the right you get tie when you [TS]

  got teary and you got Jamie ah i have to [TS]

  say a short thing about I about Tyrians [TS]

  entourage in the later episodes because [TS]

  LeBron this onward on Iran is a greater [TS]

  Braun is very well cast and Shey but it [TS]

  was completely different want to how I [TS]

  pictured her in the books completely [TS]

  different personality completely [TS]

  different look completely different type [TS]

  so i was very kind of taken aback the [TS]

  first time isn't she more of just kind [TS]

  of along for the ride Tyrion is is fond [TS]

  of a of a horror and that's how I read [TS]

  in the books and the in the TV show she [TS]

  is super sharp [TS]

  uh-huh well i mean i think you get to [TS]

  some [TS]

  some extent that she's a little bit [TS]

  sharp in the books but she seems foolish [TS]

  in a way where it's more she she read to [TS]

  me in the books is more of like a [TS]

  California valley girl horse right or [TS]

  she's just like I want pretty things i [TS]

  want to be you know etcetera and in [TS]

  actuality in the teeth the television [TS]

  show makes me love this character she's [TS]

  more like a college professor of course [TS]

  yeah exactly I'm not know but I [TS]

  sometimes I think there's some depth at [TS]

  that you that the characters in the TV [TS]

  in the in the book series they grow over [TS]

  time and you that you have these [TS]

  unexplored depths but seeing them on [TS]

  screen [TS]

  I think the producers almost have to [TS]

  make the decision to show some of that [TS]

  stuff up front because otherwise it will [TS]

  make sense later as soon as they grow [TS]

  the depth so they're like we're going to [TS]

  show that she has depth up front because [TS]

  we can't do it later we gotta do right [TS]

  by it and you get the idea that she [TS]

  needs to be a little least somewhat [TS]

  sharp in order to why would he bring her [TS]

  Syrians yet to catch Syrians fancy the [TS]

  way that's his i right [TS]

  yeah because he's a super sharp guy [TS]

  himself so far on the show I'm not even [TS]

  convinced Shae is a whore she hasn't [TS]

  said she was she denied everything [TS]

  Tyrion said about her and all we know is [TS]

  that Braun took her from someone else in [TS]

  the camp [TS]

  oh right ok that's true she heard she's [TS]

  sort of mysterious the network she said [TS]

  she's an independent business she is [TS]

  right she [TS]

  hey she's just she's out there stand [TS]

  alive right [TS]

  the tough world out there in Westeros [TS]

  that scene where they're like that let's [TS]

  play the truth and the truth game where [TS]

  I where I determine things about your [TS]

  past that's not a scene from the books [TS]

  as i recall and that's fantastic [TS]

  ya know they as as the series got going [TS]

  to you felt that they got more confident [TS]

  in taking some liberties that actually [TS]

  serve the story better [TS]

  yeah i mean like that whole scene with [TS]

  Renly in the night flowers i think that [TS]

  was haha you know that there's whole [TS]

  pages on the on the on the game of [TS]

  thrones wiki about speculating about the [TS]

  sexuality of Renly and the knight of [TS]

  flowers and and the event in the wow so [TS]

  it is not that one down so it's like [TS]

  well actually we can confirm that [TS]

  with Sally defect but they don't have [TS]

  half the sweetly they don't hey sorry [TS]

  I'm sorry he's coming next summer watch [TS]

  out rapid sweetling is gonna be in there [TS]

  yeah so let's move north let's go to [TS]

  Winterfell virtually of course because [TS]

  Winterfell is made up with like the rest [TS]

  of these books but let's just let's [TS]

  shift the scene and talk about the start [TS]

  kids and we'll talk about catlin to any [TS]

  thoughts about how the Winterfell stuff [TS]

  played out for brand is broken I easy is [TS]

  pretty good too i kind of have these [TS]

  dreams though know there's a three-eyed [TS]

  crow at least brands on the show how do [TS]

  you think Rick and feels about all this [TS]

  he gets a couple scenes he's in his [TS]

  wandering around in the tombs [TS]

  yeah my wife said my wife said is that [TS]

  is that the other kid I said yes that's [TS]

  finally the other kid he's he's shown [TS]

  very early on but not yet he does not [TS]

  get a lot of he doesn't get a lot of [TS]

  time in the book either know he's the [TS]

  baby right like he's kind of build you [TS]

  know the book has a few more scene for [TS]

  he's mentioned though like Kaitlyn is [TS]

  sitting by brand side Rob comes to her [TS]

  and says you have to do something [TS]

  Rick and is down there with the wolves [TS]

  and he's going crazy and they just cut [TS]

  that completely out [TS]

  let him go in the book in the book you [TS]

  know you introduce yourself to the to [TS]

  the stark family and you can sit there [TS]

  and all right [TS]

  ok so there's many kids and these are [TS]

  the names right got it got it where the [TS]

  TV show you know they'd be the first [TS]

  episode of there like all these kids and [TS]

  the percentage everywhere and then there [TS]

  and there's the ward and the bastard and [TS]

  you're like who were they and which one [TS]

  is he again and so by the time you get [TS]

  to the end you like o.o is there another [TS]

  one all right I know it's a little boy [TS]

  is the only one is he the only one in [TS]

  the book that we don't get up POV from I [TS]

  think they're out of the kids what do we [TS]

  get Rob I can't remember i feel like we [TS]

  often brother no I don't think we get [TS]

  rather actually but all the rest of them [TS]

  you know Sansa area [TS]

  John brand we get we get we see through [TS]

  their eyes [TS]

  well let's talk about Rob Rob in the [TS]

  book is younger and HTM up because a lot [TS]

  of this stuff sort of you know showing [TS]

  14 year olds going off to war isthmus as [TS]

  a it i think it's a good decision and I [TS]

  thought that Rob actually came across [TS]

  being a much more interesting and like s [TS]

  character in the in the in the show [TS]

  right he's very bland in the books right [TS]

  mhm i agree i think I I felt much more [TS]

  sympathy for him as portrayed on screen [TS]

  than I did when the books where it comes [TS]

  across more if they well my dad's not [TS]

  here I guess I got to be the man of the [TS]

  house you know he didn't he felt very [TS]

  bland especially when you put him up [TS]

  against John who is considered you know [TS]

  who has considerably more depth to him [TS]

  or at least more x well when they only [TS]

  when they begin chanting the king of the [TS]

  north the king of the north right you [TS]

  actually can come see how he's won this [TS]

  victory and he and he very clearly had [TS]

  the good idea and why all these guys who [TS]

  are his father's Bannerman would pledge [TS]

  they're basically allegiance to [TS]

  following the Civil War it it feels that [TS]

  much more realistic than I I sort of [TS]

  felt in the book where I thought the [TS]

  scene Matthew where you and I don't [TS]

  remember if this is in the book enough [TS]

  of the scene where he deals to with the [TS]

  his father's death where Caitlin goes [TS]

  out and finds him [TS]

  oh yeah you know whacking on the tree [TS]

  with that sword I don't know that it [TS]

  like I thought that was actually an [TS]

  affecting seen I thought catlin didn't [TS]

  get as many scenes as I expected her to [TS]

  get in the first season of of the TV [TS]

  shows that you know III she's such a [TS]

  memorable character for me and and yet [TS]

  you know she doesn't have a lot she goes [TS]

  to the area her sister's crazy you know [TS]

  she takes Jamie hostage [TS]

  she goes you know she goes back to see [TS]

  her son yeah you know I thought the [TS]

  actress was good but it was kind of [TS]

  disappointing that you just have more to [TS]

  do [TS]

  she came unanchored once Ned separated [TS]

  from her if I like in races the two of [TS]

  them together you saw how they worked as [TS]

  a unit and then they got separated and [TS]

  she did a little bit of crazy initiative [TS]

  thing stealing Tyrion on her own but [TS]

  then after that she was kind of on more [TS]

  than just floating around and then she [TS]

  reconnected with her son and that kind [TS]

  of they joined back together as a unit [TS]

  but on her own [TS]

  I cheap as a free agent in this series [TS]

  she seemed like she was kinda rattling [TS]

  around [TS]

  yes she's mostly an observer the only [TS]

  time I remember her really being the [TS]

  active protagonist of a subplot is with [TS]

  Tyrion and that got shortened a lot for [TS]

  the series i was thinking about earlier [TS]

  we need to be talked a little bit in [TS]

  there in our book podcast about this but [TS]

  I still speaking as only read the book I [TS]

  anytime you knew what was going to [TS]

  happen [TS]

  because anytime somebody was like don't [TS]

  worry we'll talk about this next time i [TS]

  see you and you're just like oh god no [TS]

  you're never gonna see them again so [TS]

  there's that painful scene where Ned [TS]

  talk to Jon Snow and he says I'll [TS]

  explain about your mother when we next [TS]

  meet [TS]

  I laughed out loud at sea not gonna [TS]

  happen felt really bad though and they [TS]

  help them together with a dozen Benjamin [TS]

  say that before rides off beyond the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  yeah yeah we'll talk about this later [TS]

  we'll talk about this later [TS]

  that's usually a bad sign yeah he's not [TS]

  coming back so and so let's talk about [TS]

  the wall right so the wall [TS]

  first off I thought the way they [TS]

  portrayed it was really you know they [TS]

  showed the wall right which is this part [TS]

  concept in the book its enormous and [TS]

  it's kind of an impossible thing and how [TS]

  could you ever show it and and you know [TS]

  by golly there's a gigantic wall there [TS]

  it is a great wall that's a great ice [TS]

  it's alright alright I seem better about [TS]

  such a such a unique set i like i like [TS]

  the elevator [TS]

  I like the elevator that they go up in [TS]

  the tunnel the way they portray the [TS]

  tunnel going through it [TS]

  I don't know it's it feels it feels [TS]

  realistic although maybe a little bit [TS]

  like like he walks built it that [TS]

  elevator is operated by one guy pushing [TS]

  a stick [TS]

  they can't put a donkey on the head or [TS]

  something it's called mechanical [TS]

  advantage of cold air discovered it in [TS]

  this world monkeys it reminded me of the [TS]

  the elevator from the wise man's fear [TS]

  speaking of the book and they had a big [TS]

  walleye get going up and down with the [TS]

  universe car and stuff like that [TS]

  alright similarly not impractical [TS]

  elevator technology that just [TS]

  miraculously works [TS]

  apparently they have they have steps but [TS]

  you know take they don't some people are [TS]

  likely i like the I think they did a [TS]

  great job with characterizing the other [TS]

  inhabitants of the other members of the [TS]

  Night Watch especially John's circle of [TS]

  friends though they don't get a lot of [TS]

  time they get you get an idea of how [TS]

  important they are especially in that [TS]

  last episode where he wants to write off [TS]

  and go join Rob and they're the ones who [TS]

  drawn drawn back [TS]

  i I really I kind of enjoyed them and I [TS]

  enjoyed the old bear who i think it was [TS]

  again well cast as the as the Lord [TS]

  Commander and you kind of that whole [TS]

  relationship there right it's very it's [TS]

  a very interesting because he's very you [TS]

  know [TS]

  he's kind of set apart from the rest of [TS]

  them because even though he's a bastard [TS]

  he's you know the son of Lord you know [TS]

  they've got that all that that that [TS]

  tension between him and the guy was like [TS]

  the arms training even though like John [TS]

  clearly knows what he's doing and I [TS]

  don't know I I enjoyed the scenes at the [TS]

  wall and a weight given that they're [TS]

  disconnected like like that money was [TS]

  saying about you know the across the sea [TS]

  stuff being like I I guess get through [TS]

  that I mean I feel confident you know [TS]

  separately even though this is also sort [TS]

  of removed from the main intrigue it [TS]

  plays in a little more and it still held [TS]

  my interest in a way that the narrow [TS]

  across the Narrow Sea stuff did not the [TS]

  whole concept of the Nights Watch is the [TS]

  place where as we said earlier the dregs [TS]

  of the of the culture get get dropped i [TS]

  think it's interesting to be you have [TS]

  these younger characters who gets it [TS]

  there for various things that are you [TS]

  know they're not hardened criminals they [TS]

  they are bastards or unwanted war damn [TS]

  Gamgee [TS]

  yeah and Sam Carly Carly is totally [TS]

  different [TS]

  Samwell in that Samwise said yeah maybe [TS]

  possibly right and so they're the ones [TS]

  who they're the ones who we come to like [TS]

  because they they're not the the dregs [TS]

  of the culture they're just down there [TS]

  lock or made a bad choice and and now [TS]

  here they are and Sam's a great [TS]

  character so great they you know took [TS]

  him from Tolkien and ran random [TS]

  read/write back in Jon Snow is my [TS]

  favorite I think character in the books [TS]

  and so I thought I thought he was I [TS]

  thought that he was handled pretty well [TS]

  and sort of appropriately not getting it [TS]

  at several points like when he's made [TS]

  named the steward for the Lord Commander [TS]

  and is all upset about it before his [TS]

  friend says dude you're being groomed [TS]

  right you you know that right [TS]

  no he's not that smart little people on [TS]

  the show can do with some grooming haha [TS]

  yeah comb anyone either he's still too [TS]

  he still a little bit too too pretty [TS]

  his hairs all it's still human Rob both [TS]

  a little bit to get too pretty [TS]

  it's the windswept North it makes their [TS]

  their hair their just naturally curly ok [TS]

  also so John did you get that the [TS]

  commander of the night's watch at the [TS]

  wall is the father of terraces night who [TS]

  helps her out and prevents her from [TS]

  being poisoned [TS]

  I not get that from the show what I was [TS]

  going to mention those speaking of the [TS]

  the guys in the armor basically the big [TS]

  man armor you've got Jamie you've got [TS]

  the captain of the Kingsguard who fails [TS]

  to protect the king from the boar you've [TS]

  got the guy at the the the Nights Watch [TS]

  the head of the Nights Watch guy all [TS]

  those actors and whoever designed the [TS]

  armor did such a good job because those [TS]

  guys look like old-timey regimented [TS]

  military men who are completely [TS]

  comfortable in the armor and look larger [TS]

  than life and 32 entirely different sets [TS]

  of armor three entirely different [TS]

  characters but I thought that the design [TS]

  of those people those are possibly the [TS]

  best traditional-looking nights I've [TS]

  ever seen I didn't look like a bunch of [TS]

  people wearing awkward night armor and [TS]

  they all look bigger than life maybe [TS]

  because they are bigger than I don't [TS]

  know how big these guys actually are but [TS]

  they look big on the screen you know [TS]

  they're like giant some and everyone [TS]

  else look like boys especially you know [TS]

  the other the stark boys and everything [TS]

  will probably are big men in their own [TS]

  right [TS]

  when next to these other men looks like [TS]

  boys you know that was a great bit of [TS]

  casting great but have set design and [TS]

  those characters like they've never had [TS]

  probably need to say anything that is [TS]

  needed to just walk onto into the room [TS]

  and have a graph expression sir [TS]

  peristeri like saturday i love i love [TS]

  his last scene when they when they make [TS]

  him retire [TS]

  it's just like yeah you know what screw [TS]

  you yeah [TS]

  oh you're gonna get a castle no I was [TS]

  hoping he would kill all those guys in [TS]

  the room haha instead of just say it you [TS]

  know that but I was like sure he's going [TS]

  to go out swinging out I kill all these [TS]

  guys he lives to fight another day [TS]

  instead mr. baston understand the bolt [TS]

  okay well so we would take our little [TS]

  virtual tour of north of the wall there [TS]

  like nothing i'm sure there's nothing [TS]

  interesting north of the wall probably [TS]

  not notice the wildlings or whatever [TS]

  they call them you get that one who [TS]

  becomes a character you have a couple of [TS]

  wildlings yeah the chick from harry [TS]

  potter with the same haircut [TS]

  yeah they make a real effort to have her [TS]

  look at scraggly as possible to cheek [TS]

  and she came around a little bit fast [TS]

  for me in terms of they like your you [TS]

  made me a prisoner whatever and then [TS]

  like I don't know I felt like there was [TS]

  a little more time in the books [TS]

  developing the relationship between her [TS]

  and brand before we go [TS]

  like your body tried to kill me too i'm [TS]

  gonna carry you around my shoulders like [TS]

  they're gonna trust this written this [TS]

  girl just survivor though that's what I [TS]

  got from our character and the thing was [TS]

  that that that red fine to me because [TS]

  her whole like the whole existence is a [TS]

  struggle for survival and she finds [TS]

  herself a new situation she's not gonna [TS]

  stubbornly cling to the way she used to [TS]

  live just like well my buddies are dead [TS]

  his where i am now going to make the [TS]

  best of it she's a survivor social [TS]

  immediately she has no particular [TS]

  allegiance to anything except for the [TS]

  ability to keep herself alive otherwise [TS]

  she wouldn't have been a lot of the [TS]

  other side of the wall you know [TS]

  well however was in the book I had no [TS]

  problem following yeah we get that [TS]

  impression from her to from and we get a [TS]

  couple mentions although very little [TS]

  about Mance Rayder who become you know [TS]

  was another character who comes in later [TS]

  but like he meant he mentioned a couple [TS]

  times as a throwaway one of the things [TS]

  that i noticed beyond who is the ward / [TS]

  hostage of dead but he's sort of like [TS]

  been raised as one of the brothers he [TS]

  goes to the village outside Winterfell [TS]

  at two to do some explanatory dialogue [TS]

  with a whore because that's what you [TS]

  doing with zeros [TS]

  yes as you do and and then there's [TS]

  dialogue about the horror and he talked [TS]

  to Jon Snow about her because she's a [TS]

  redhead right and then and then she [TS]

  declares that still see on she's bailing [TS]

  out and she's going south and then like [TS]

  she keeps she keeps showing up [TS]

  it's like a running gag it's like there [TS]

  are really only eight whores in Westeros [TS]

  they have to move around [TS]

  yeah you never you never seeing the a [TS]

  towards West it's an old drinking some I [TS]

  felt bad for her cause she was [TS]

  apparently the very best horror in [TS]

  Winterfell but as soon as she got down [TS]

  to King's Landing she has to get fake [TS]

  orgasm training [TS]

  yeah she's yeah i'm going to university [TS]

  though she's going to choose its [TS]

  advanced techniques [TS]

  she's she's coming called up from the [TS]

  minors it shows how backward those North [TS]

  men are they really just clueless about [TS]

  that [TS]

  did dad people feel about I mean it's an [TS]

  HBO show right now I mean how people [TS]

  feel about the let the the sex position [TS]

  or the sex in general don't watch this [TS]

  show on a plane [TS]

  you and I had that one I want that one [TS]

  episode where we're little fingers is [TS]

  teaching and coaching them in and [TS]

  expounding on his old history and why [TS]

  he's so great in everything sitting on a [TS]

  planet like I like putting that window [TS]

  behind a bunch of other windows so i can [TS]

  still listen to the dialogue me like [TS]

  right isn't over yet but i really want [TS]

  to watch the show [TS]

  yeah this is not that kind of show [TS]

  whatever it was it's it's strange as [TS]

  somebody trained with you know current [TS]

  standard commercial TV you get to those [TS]

  scenes and you're like all right okay [TS]

  but i mean it's it's it's it's you know [TS]

  the book is not does not shy away from [TS]

  the dome doesn't obviously United the [TS]

  books are pretty graphic but they did [TS]

  use those scenes for other things right [TS]

  that the scenes generally will inform us [TS]

  about character or explain something [TS]

  about the world [TS]

  yeah i was gonna have the scenes were [TS]

  not very erotic they were all because [TS]

  they were talking or doing some sort of [TS]

  plot point or it was like a rape scene [TS]

  or something like that they weren't love [TS]

  scenes you know so even though there was [TS]

  lots of nudity was mostly it was about [TS]

  is off-putting as the violence you know [TS]

  and matched up with that more or less [TS]

  people being X people having their [TS]

  bodies exploited people being attacked [TS]

  with swords all kind of a piece [TS]

  alright it was likely the only love [TS]

  seeing that is like maybe Ned and his [TS]

  wife in bed before he was going off to [TS]

  King's Landing and all the only actual [TS]

  relationship where there was any [TS]

  affection mutual affection you know I [TS]

  know they did it just lay there drug [TS]

  engineers had a really emotional sex [TS]

  scene at one point I guess so but it's [TS]

  kind of like their relationship is [TS]

  founded on i'm not i'm not a solid [TS]

  foundation lets her on her being sold [TS]

  yeah you can see it and I assume that [TS]

  you know she figures out how to be a [TS]

  wife to this strange mostly evil guy and [TS]

  I'm assuming she's flour into a strange [TS]

  somewhat Evil Queen dragon woman things [TS]

  so she's not what I wasn't really yeah [TS]

  that's the name of the second book to [TS]

  the acclaimed director moment thing [TS]

  yeah the best one really you don't want [TS]

  to read the one after that because like [TS]

  Marty said halfway through really how [TS]

  long is this book I think that'll be two [TS]

  seasons if they get to that I think [TS]

  they've already confirmed that there [TS]

  will be two seasons me and will be two [TS]

  seasons but then i'm a little worried [TS]

  about her [TS]

  all these kids are gonna be once they [TS]

  get to where the books are now like are [TS]

  you can't keep passing as a boy i'm a [TS]

  little worried that george RR martin if [TS]

  you take six years to write every book [TS]

  this material may just stop reading the [TS]

  books and just write the last season [TS]

  himself and that adapt it [TS]

  there we go what about the Dragons at [TS]

  the and John talked about it a little [TS]

  bit how did that conform that's the big [TS]

  moment at the end of the book and it's [TS]

  the big moment at the end of the season [TS]

  so how did that how did that work for [TS]

  you guys there were some CGI dragons you [TS]

  know when it wasn't as weird as it was [TS]

  in the book but they're not nursing on [TS]

  her right [TS]

  yes that was the one that was the weird [TS]

  but I was surprised you wanted it to be [TS]

  as weird as it wasn't above this way [TS]

  they got to cover up certain parts of [TS]

  her body barely know the strategically [TS]

  placed dragon I would just hold this [TS]

  dragon in front of my crotch no reason [TS]

  you have you have the scene in the book [TS]

  were basically she supposed to be [TS]

  stepping out of the flames with the [TS]

  flames still going high with the Dragons [TS]

  nursing at her breasts and I'm like well [TS]

  you could have flames cover things are [TS]

  fully and I mean it just the scene in [TS]

  the movie in the in a television show [TS]

  just wasn't as powerful to me where it [TS]

  was just kind of like a walk up and no [TS]

  she's alive day after and its light out [TS]

  maybe it and we have yeah that was that [TS]

  was a weird choice they really SAT and [TS]

  waited for her to burn all evening like [TS]

  they didn't question when she didn't [TS]

  walk out so someone should go and get [TS]

  her not me that I'm not touching that [TS]

  you you know i think they went like some [TS]

  saw a movie or something had some drinks [TS]

  came back after yeah exactly [TS]

  we went to Westeros to watch beheading [TS]

  and then we came back after a few hours [TS]

  you got to figure those people got tired [TS]

  of just watching the flames and took a [TS]

  nap [TS]

  well i think that's that's what happened [TS]

  right is that everybody went home and [TS]

  they went to bed and then and then [TS]

  somebody came running into guys guys I [TS]

  was just walking past the pyre and [TS]

  there's something moving over there come [TS]

  on write it [TS]

  let's go check it out yeah I I don't [TS]

  know why they chose to do it that way i [TS]

  don't know it didn't really add well [TS]

  anything you gotta have dragged there [TS]

  are no no real depth dragons are [TS]

  available right so no i mean like you [TS]

  know that know that the fire at the fire [TS]

  that's changing it from the book was a [TS]

  real [TS]

  higher well the cgi dragons are very [TS]

  expensive so you do have fire or CGI [TS]

  dragons and they pick the Dragons you [TS]

  should hear the Dragons demands in their [TS]

  trailers when I picture the scene in the [TS]

  books in my head it felt a lot like a [TS]

  scene out of Terminator 2 where you have [TS]

  the flames and then she walked for sleep [TS]

  right with with dragons nursing on her [TS]

  brand ready-to-wear destroy another one [TS]

  yeah that's exactly right exactly right [TS]

  it's up now is like a look we forgot you [TS]

  were here hey you're naked you have [TS]

  dragon in some ways it makes her more [TS]

  powerful system or something but make [TS]

  sure it it makes me feel like she's [TS]

  softer in some way like it she's because [TS]

  she you know rather than walking out of [TS]

  the fires they kind of pull a schizo so [TS]

  this is how all the Turk Arians make [TS]

  have the have that beautiful healthy [TS]

  skin is they just fire [TS]

  it's a great day that makes you a tan it [TS]

  gives you let me tell you and then you [TS]

  rub a dragon on you and your friend and [TS]

  she looked more vulnerable when they [TS]

  found it was kind of like she was in the [TS]

  speaking of Terminator like a terminator [TS]

  one with the naked dude in the Crouch [TS]

  after the lightning you know kind of [TS]

  your vulnerable when you come through is [TS]

  a even the Terminator machine looks [TS]

  vulnerable they just crunched up in a [TS]

  little ball no clothes or anything and [TS]

  not knowing what the book scene was I [TS]

  thought doing it in the early morning [TS]

  light was just kind of dirty and and [TS]

  comes up from the dirt with with no [TS]

  clothes on looking kind of vulnerable [TS]

  even though she's got these little sea [TS]

  dragons flitting around her [TS]

  I thought it worked fine mean it the [TS]

  main message you're trying to get across [TS]

  was that you had to what you had to do [TS]

  in terms of the TV show was a show that [TS]

  she had been transformed and more [TS]

  importantly show why should anyone ever [TS]

  follower because up until then they were [TS]

  just following her because she was [TS]

  Drogo's life and after that she really [TS]

  had nothing and everyone just left and [TS]

  the only way you're thinking like well [TS]

  this character is going to be out of the [TS]

  series because her big strong guys left [TS]

  and she is not as an individual [TS]

  impressive enough to make anyone ever [TS]

  follower but going into a giant fire and [TS]

  then coming out alive a dragon your [TS]

  shoulder gonna get up doing grace [TS]

  yeah I will sign up for that whatever [TS]

  you do in right you're up and doesn't [TS]

  have to be out of the actual flames to [TS]

  say we saw her burn and then she came [TS]

  out with dragon so we're working [TS]

  all this lady a good idea everytime [TS]

  everytime she starts cooking things [TS]

  people are like dragons [TS]

  yeah there could be more direct way off [TS]

  now and extra dragons on that place [TS]

  now and extra dragons on that place [TS]

  right i'd like two eggs sunny-side up [TS]

  and a drag to go side so I'm let's in [TS]

  wrapping up with just look back at the [TS]

  at this first season as a whole and well [TS]

  I just want to ask how you feel [TS]

  we will be satisfied we are happy was it [TS]

  a was a good experience you get the big [TS]

  old thumbs up [TS]

  let's start with Monty who had to [TS]

  laborious Lee recap every episode of [TS]

  Game of Thrones I liked it a lot [TS]

  turns out it's a hard shoulder recap [TS]

  because it's harder to make fun of good [TS]

  shows no true blood will tell you that [TS]

  haha [TS]

  uh-huh enough John what about you [TS]

  I give it a big thumbs up i think is [TS]

  probably my favorite new series of of [TS]

  this season and and actually my favorite [TS]

  HBO series than watching a few other HBO [TS]

  series [TS]

  I it met my expectations when they [TS]

  exceeded my expectations are exceeded [TS]

  them in some ways but I had high [TS]

  expectations for the show at but the [TS]

  other thing as I knew the the books I [TS]

  knew I probably would never read them [TS]

  because i have kind of a middling [TS]

  tolerance for big honking fantasy novels [TS]

  at this point in my life and I probably [TS]

  never read that but I said they're gonna [TS]

  make an HBO series i trust these guys [TS]

  and the actors look great and actually [TS]

  like don't make it into something [TS]

  compelling and they did you know some [TS]

  things are better than I thought there [TS]

  would be other things we were you know a [TS]

  little bit below the level of excitement [TS]

  I I thought they would be [TS]

  I don't know why I thought that's what i [TS]

  thought they would be slightly less [TS]

  political intrigue and slightly more [TS]

  battling with swords but overall very [TS]

  happy big thumbs-up can wait as a lot of [TS]

  sort battling especially big battle [TS]

  scenes they have some opportunities and [TS]

  made it instead they hit Tyrion in the [TS]

  head with a hammer saves money [TS]

  this is true what they had to CGI dragon [TS]

  to pay for read what about you i loved [TS]

  it i was very satisfied of the i think i [TS]

  was hooked pretty much by the second [TS]

  episode and I'm very curious to see [TS]

  where they go with the second book and [TS]

  see if they can kind of keep this [TS]

  ramping because I definitely like in [TS]

  terms of books i think i started liking [TS]

  the series a lot more after I got [TS]

  through the first book so I wonder if [TS]

  this trend will continue on television [TS]

  and if they will be able to keep up the [TS]

  budget and keep up the quality [TS]

  especially if things get crazy that some [TS]

  encouraging signs for those who haven't [TS]

  read the books that you actually think [TS]

  it gets better as it goes so well I've [TS]

  set the second book gets better [TS]

  yeah i'm not talking about the third and [TS]

  fourth I like I I actually like the [TS]

  third book but I didn't realize at some [TS]

  point that it was a billion pages long [TS]

  and care about you what's your verdict [TS]

  and I feel maybe a little hungry smack [TS]

  no I I you know I I've been waiting for [TS]

  the show to come out for a really long [TS]

  time a good friend of mine from college [TS]

  is not unit doesn't keep as much tabs on [TS]

  the television seen as say i do but he [TS]

  loves these books and so when I told [TS]

  them that they were making the short of [TS]

  it he would like bug me like every six [TS]

  months the house game of thrones going [TS]

  in like literally it's been like four [TS]

  years in the making or something so I [TS]

  remember you know really every time I [TS]

  see a news thing across my desk at like [TS]

  send it to a book they're getting closer [TS]

  and so to actually get here it feels [TS]

  like you know you're worried that it's [TS]

  got hyped up too much and so I think I [TS]

  went into the first episode feeling a [TS]

  little bit like man maybe my [TS]

  expectations are too high and and you [TS]

  know I i don't think i was necessarily [TS]

  hooked from the get-go but yet [TS]

  definitely by the by a couple episodes [TS]

  in I was fully caught up in the store [TS]

  again even knowing you know what's going [TS]

  to happen you know it's been awhile [TS]

  since i've read the books and so it took [TS]

  some time for me to remember certain [TS]

  scenes but like when you would get that [TS]

  I flash about man i know it's coming but [TS]

  still to see it played out in front of [TS]

  you and brought to life and such a great [TS]

  fashion with such high production values [TS]

  great cast all that really you know it [TS]

  i'd give it a thumbs up i think it was [TS]

  it was well done and I agree with John [TS]

  one of my favorite series of all right [TS]

  and Scott what do you think [TS]

  but i have mentioned before on this [TS]

  podcast that I when I read books I [TS]

  almost immediately completely forget [TS]

  everything about them so i read the game [TS]

  of thrones a long time ago and watching [TS]

  this show i really had very little idea [TS]

  what was going on because i'm a moron [TS]

  apparently I XO it was I enjoyed getting [TS]

  reintroduced to the characters which is [TS]

  useful because the new book is coming [TS]

  out and I had no idea that the show was [TS]

  coming out at all until so I think [TS]

  someone email that about our [TS]

  the the podcast mailing list so i had no [TS]

  expectations [TS]

  given that i had no expectations that I [TS]

  didn't remember anything about the book [TS]

  i thought the show was very good [TS]

  you sound surprised almost well you [TS]

  never know AJ fantasy shows generally [TS]

  are not very good i think I'm safe in [TS]

  saying yes so I was I was prepared for [TS]

  it to suck and it was actually very good [TS]

  so i was i was surprised anyone was [TS]

  going to do it justice [TS]

  it was HBO right that like you know you [TS]

  could not do this on network television [TS]

  but this community was it would be more [TS]

  11 figures actually I kind of said we [TS]

  didn't get to see a low-budget sci-fi [TS]

  channel original movie out of it though [TS]

  first game of thrones me Ned Stark story [TS]

  they'll do the the knockoffs have you [TS]

  seen the knockoffs they have on like [TS]

  Netflix whenever there's a popular movie [TS]

  coming out they do like the low budget [TS]

  for it like like trans trans morphers [TS]

  like it's really it's like s it's like [TS]

  SEO for movies this there's a great [TS]

  industry built up on that so you like [TS]

  the game a charity from chairs you know [TS]

  Scott mentioned up not knowing what's [TS]

  going to happen because if you got the [TS]

  hook-up one thing and one thing I want [TS]

  everyone to want to bring up before we [TS]

  move on as the the net dying so much for [TS]

  someone who didn't read the book and I [TS]

  was watching it along with other people [TS]

  who haven't read the book and when he [TS]

  got killed in that episode III add on [TS]

  tivo and they had watched it before me [TS]

  and iris a lot of people saying oh [TS]

  you're not going to believe what happens [TS]

  next episode is unbelievable this [TS]

  episode was blown is a real-time and [TS]

  Twitter when the show was airing people [TS]

  who like it's just unbelievable this is [TS]

  the greatest show ever [TS]

  not I not that I'm against that move but [TS]

  i would have been disappointed if that [TS]

  wasn't his character arc because then it [TS]

  would be like oh this is like every [TS]

  other show where that is the hero and [TS]

  despite whatever you know despite the [TS]

  reality he's going to get out of this [TS]

  through some stupid thing that would [TS]

  never actually happened because he's the [TS]

  main character must be protected at all [TS]

  costs that would have been upsetting to [TS]

  me and surprising when he got his head [TS]

  chopped off [TS]

  I wasn't shocked because that was the [TS]

  natural evolution of his story and [TS]

  anything different would have required [TS]

  some sort of significant could you could [TS]

  have gotten out of it like saying he had [TS]

  to die but would have required a [TS]

  significant plot event to save him from [TS]

  that [TS]

  versus just someone leaves up from the [TS]

  stage and grabs them and they run off [TS]

  any safe that's the clever the [TS]

  cleverness of having this other option [TS]

  right which is that they're going to [TS]

  send into the wall and that's all series [TS]

  plot in the yeah I know but once he was [TS]

  up on that stage and he's giving that [TS]

  speech I know this is dead [TS]

  you didn't think he was gonna come to [TS]

  recover way through the crowd and no I [TS]

  mean I thought she was I thought she was [TS]

  likely to die too because i have had [TS]

  personal he's dead because Joffrey's not [TS]

  gonna buy this like you could see it I [TS]

  just that was that ominous thing was in [TS]

  there I was kind of you know you're [TS]

  hoping like I'm rooting for negatory [TS]

  like somebody did like his character but [TS]

  you're like now because that if they did [TS]

  that that would be a cheat and in [TS]

  reality drop is going to the second [TS]

  she's running the stage and like all [TS]

  they're gonna kill her too because she [TS]

  is no way in heck she's going to say [TS]

  because i had enough faith in the show [TS]

  do not say they are he's gonna go save [TS]

  him but imagine if she had saved unload [TS]

  this would have been a horrible show you [TS]

  know she gets into energy pokes people [TS]

  it'll stick and runs off and they're [TS]

  saved know that then ever i would've [TS]

  been screaming but i don't know what all [TS]

  the people who were shocked that he died [TS]

  were expecting what do you want to have [TS]

  the book goes so that's purpose of the [TS]

  book you need to ensure ya get my [TS]

  aforementioned friend from college who [TS]

  is the one who introduced me to these [TS]

  books like that's how he sold it to me [TS]

  the first time like you described is [TS]

  like so be you know this is one of these [TS]

  books but it's not like fantasy books [TS]

  where people get into these impossible [TS]

  situations and then that you know they [TS]

  they get out of it death-defying ways [TS]

  now in this one they actually died and i [TS]

  was like huh that's interesting [TS]

  yeah yeah you haven't seen you haven't [TS]

  seen the end of that yeah people [TS]

  continue to die [TS]

  it's good just like real ones good [TS]

  alright so that wraps up our [TS]

  conversation about a game of thrones [TS]

  comes back next year looking forward to [TS]

  it [TS]

  in the meantime mirror tens of thousands [TS]

  of pages of books if you want to read [TS]

  ahead so you might be able to be [TS]

  finished by the time the second season [TS]

  premieres but only if you're a fast [TS]

  reader anyway until then I want to thank [TS]

  my guests for joining me to talk about [TS]

  it on on the incomparable I enjoyed the [TS]

  season 2 by the way I thought it was I [TS]

  thought it was great so I'm glad that [TS]

  you guys thought so too [TS]

  who asked you Scott McNulty thank you [TS]

  again for sharing your your strange [TS]

  power of reader amnesia with us we I do [TS]

  what I can [TS]

  who are you [TS]

  no one of consequence the morin thank [TS]

  you for being here [TS]

  pleasure rent thank you for for being [TS]

  here and and discussing these books [TS]

  which you've read multiple times right [TS]

  yes well the first two and then i just [TS]

  finished rereading the purse too and [TS]

  finishing the ladder to the first time [TS]

  right before the show started [TS]

  so all right so you could remember it [TS]

  unlike Scott who's a babe in the woods [TS]

  is a little worried John siracusa thank [TS]

  you for for providing our control group [TS]

  is the person who hadn't read these [TS]

  crazy books before seeing the show thank [TS]

  you [TS]

  not spoiling it too badly that's we try [TS]

  not that's what the horn is for that's [TS]

  what the Hornets foolish if I remember [TS]

  to tell them to round out the spoiler i [TS]

  know that you would yeah he would [TS]

  that was a jury I was a goddess Scott is [TS]

  evil and a special thanks to our special [TS]

  gas money Ashley I'm so glad that you [TS]

  could be on the podcast with us [TS]

  thanks it was fun are you going to recap [TS]

  this series again next time I hope to [TS]

  all right well look for that at [TS]

  television without pity calm right [TS]

  yes indeed we're going to recap this [TS]

  podcast jason said some stuff and then I [TS]

  tuned out and I might have said some [TS]

  stuff and there were some other people [TS]

  that's like that uh that's like there [TS]

  are one-star review haha I to some [TS]

  people of a certain age that some stuff [TS]

  for those for those of a certain age [TS]

  well who forget books for example right [TS]

  Scott result is 90 years old that's why [TS]

  he forgets everything he reads you look [TS]

  great on paper snappers it's true [TS]

  teenagers are alright until next time [TS]

  thanks to everybody for listening thanks [TS]

  to my panelists I'm Jason's don't be [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast see you later [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  what's the deal with the throne [TS]

  that's right who were the ad Wizards who [TS]

  came up with this throne [TS]

  y-you know I want to I want a little [TS]

  padding back there you know Robert I [TS]

  guess he's got enough padding that he [TS]

  wouldn't even feel it [TS]

  what kind of a stupid throne is that out [TS]

  I know it's been a horrible at all but i [TS]

  gotta sit on this thing [TS]

  at what point did they decided they [TS]

  wanted to make that throw [TS]

  did they have a whole bunch of swords in [TS]

  a back room extra sword they [TS]

  accidentally got like a dragon you know [TS]

  the armory know like crap what are we [TS]

  gonna do the latter sword too close to [TS]

  the directive I know chair [TS]

  my theory is that there was a blacksmith [TS]

  who had a public a application for a [TS]

  public arts grant and the king said you [TS]

  know I got these swords that I took away [TS]

  from my enemies they're not doing any [TS]

  good sure I mean so they think it was [TS]

  before they realize the Mad King was mad [TS]

  be just like throughout sup like I want [TS]

  to throw up sold her to me like I guess [TS]

  we better make one you need to be king [TS]

  and all it has a drag race [TS]

  yeah when he asked for a throne of cats [TS]

  they're like that's not actually would [TS]

  be a great seat without throwing cats [TS]