The Incomparable

44: Emperor Aquaman

 

  the incomparable pod test number 44 jun [TS]

  2011 we're back on the incomparable [TS]

  podcast I'm your host Jason smell even [TS]

  if you're not a regular visitor to your [TS]

  local comic book store you may find this [TS]

  episode of the uncomfortable interesting [TS]

  don't turn away please don't wait stop [TS]

  joining me today are Lisa Schmeisser hi [TS]

  Lisa [TS]

  I there and jason reitman hey everyone [TS]

  and a very special guest joining the [TS]

  comic book club today from the from the [TS]

  greater new england area my good friend [TS]

  and even akele hi Andy [TS]

  hello Jason hello Lisa hello Jason again [TS]

  yes but which which one was first in [TS]

  your heart and which while you cut in [TS]

  your day little game of cat-and-mouse [TS]

  already i'm regretting this but I've [TS]

  already made a commitment [TS]

  yeah IRA I was once in a meeting with [TS]

  jason reitman was referred to as the [TS]

  good jason and i was standing there [TS]

  going it's true though [TS]

  ok although I it is yeah I need to grow [TS]

  a little goatee and then I can be the [TS]

  people chase or i can just be that now [TS]

  so so our topic today is based on [TS]

  something that happened a couple weeks [TS]

  ago I was actually on a business trip [TS]

  when I saw in on the front of USA Today [TS]

  and the hotel room as I was as i was [TS]

  preparing to go out to 22 my business [TS]

  engagement that apparently the the good [TS]

  people the new creative team at DC [TS]

  Comics has decided to take this [TS]

  incredibly bold interesting step and I'm [TS]

  not referring to remembering all their [TS]

  comics this number one because boy that [TS]

  happens all the time but essentially [TS]

  rebooting the DC Universe and saying [TS]

  we're going to get rid of all this old [TS]

  continuity we're going to rethink our [TS]

  characters we're going to do sort of [TS]

  what Marvel did for the Ultimate [TS]

  Universe but rather than hedging and [TS]

  take but we'll do both will do coke and [TS]

  old coke [TS]

  they just said we're rebooting we're [TS]

  doing it all- and I think you guys all [TS]

  have a good experience i I've never been [TS]

  I've always been on the margins as a [TS]

  reader of DC comics I've read some stuff [TS]

  but I'm actually intrigued by because i [TS]

  don't have a lot invested in it and I [TS]

  think that maybe reimagining it would [TS]

  get more [TS]

  trusted but i'm really interested in [TS]

  what you guys think about this move and [TS]

  whether you think it's a good idea or [TS]

  not you know or or is it just a [TS]

  ridiculous publicity stunt like changing [TS]

  you know it's now number one again which [TS]

  they do every year or two and then they [TS]

  just change it back when it's an [TS]

  anniversary right well it could be a [TS]

  good idea and they bizarre publicity [TS]

  stunt [TS]

  yes I think we relate severely a [TS]

  publicity you can't be both right yeah [TS]

  okay every time the marbles had like [TS]

  those these successes it's always been [TS]

  you know this it's never been about [TS]

  let's get people to buy this issue [TS]

  captain america it's let's see if we can [TS]

  get the new york times to report on how [TS]

  like how we're doing this poll thing [TS]

  about killing captain america and how [TS]

  we're doing this bolt think about [TS]

  killing off when the members of the [TS]

  Fantastic Four and holy cats were [TS]

  actually having having spider-man [TS]

  unmasked it's there they they score the [TS]

  win by how much mainstream publicity [TS]

  they get and it almost doesn't it's the [TS]

  their cynical enough that it doesn't [TS]

  even matter to them that you know what [TS]

  when they tried to get that information [TS]

  about spider-man's unmasking they [TS]

  already had the plan in place for and [TS]

  the the issue in mind in which they [TS]

  would undo all of that so that's that's [TS]

  very this part of the hype machine is [TS]

  just part of the grand tradition of [TS]

  comics we'd almost be disappointed to [TS]

  write ups in USA Today really drive [TS]

  comic book sales though was that if [TS]

  you're trying if you're trying to revive [TS]

  one dying print medium what better tool [TS]

  that we use another dying from media [TS]

  it's like rubbing two sticks together [TS]

  and start a fire it's also no I don't [TS]

  think it an article in anywhere affect [TS]

  sales for something that's not coming [TS]

  out for three months right [TS]

  that's a long time it's a real long time [TS]

  in our 24-hour media cycle the it is a [TS]

  publicity stunt but there's there's some [TS]

  historical precedent particularly DC [TS]

  with this kind of thing there you know [TS]

  most farmers for taking their gold key [TS]

  characters or critical key gold Golden [TS]

  Age characters of flash and Green [TS]

  Lantern and then one day coming out with [TS]

  a new flash Green Lantern that had [TS]

  nothing to do with the old ones and [TS]

  that's then the silver that beginning of [TS]

  the silvery which was what the sixties [TS]

  the Silver Age [TS]

  but the 60 minutes yes and that's when [TS]

  Hal Jordan came out as a Green Lantern [TS]

  and the flash within reason to w/e be in [TS]

  the closet in the closet for long [TS]

  because his parents I have a ring but [TS]

  just recently though I like a year ago [TS]

  they came out with the earth one series [TS]

  of graphic novels with no that's the [TS]

  just rozinsky Superman exactly novel [TS]

  right which was on the new york times [TS]

  bestselling list for a long time for the [TS]

  new york times best graphic best-selling [TS]

  graphic novels still in list yeah and i [TS]

  happen to read that last week it it [TS]

  wasn't bad and I was just like okay [TS]

  forget everything now Superman is this [TS]

  younger kid coming out now as Superman [TS]

  right all the same with mom and dad [TS]

  right now all the same but slightly [TS]

  different and that's sold so well that [TS]

  they're like oh let's just do it for [TS]

  everything and when your new creative [TS]

  team coming in at the executive level [TS]

  why not just reinvented universe that's [TS]

  like a hundred years old I do wonder if [TS]

  DC and Marvel both have problems with [TS]

  being crippled by literally decades upon [TS]

  decades of continuity and cotton in and [TS]

  and red car and retconning and and these [TS]

  convoluted story lines where if someone [TS]

  were to sit down with you and say oh you [TS]

  really like comics who's your favorite [TS]

  character like well I really like Black [TS]

  Canary what she's about and then you [TS]

  have to explain all right huh [TS]

  here's the deal her mom was Black Canary [TS]

  and she grew up around the Justice [TS]

  Society and then there was some weird [TS]

  interplanetary thing where she was from [TS]

  another dimension for a while and then [TS]

  she lost her voice but you got to pin [TS]

  the resurrection pits and she's been on [TS]

  and off with the green arrow for [TS]

  forty-odd years and they got married [TS]

  except that he was a clone and and hear [TS]

  what happened and you know that my point [TS]

  is is if you're trying to explain these [TS]

  characters to somebody and they're just [TS]

  gonna look at you like okay so there's [TS]

  no there's no accessible entry point and [TS]

  I think sometimes continuity what [TS]

  rewards long time [TS]

  long time readers or obsessive readers [TS]

  who have no problem going back to find [TS]

  all the back issues so that they can get [TS]

  all the little in jokes are all the [TS]

  little plot developments it makes it [TS]

  tremendously inaccessible to younger [TS]

  readers to younger readers or new [TS]

  readers and so by hitting the reset [TS]

  button [TS]

  it is a great opportunity for them to [TS]

  try to broaden their audience the [TS]

  question is whether or not they're going [TS]

  to be able to do that whether they've [TS]

  been whether they're gonna be able to [TS]

  tap into the psyches of moviegoers we're [TS]

  going to watch ryan reynolds run around [TS]

  shirtless the summer or or anything like [TS]

  that and say oh this you know I i really [TS]

  enjoyed this to our movie maybe i could [TS]

  maybe also enjoy downloading these green [TS]

  lantern comics onto my ipad I i think i [TS]

  think this is a move is it it's like DC [TS]

  scoring a Tetris where they make one [TS]

  move that clears away at least four or [TS]

  five levels it's no it's no coincidence [TS]

  that they're choosing this time to do [TS]

  day-and-date releases are digitally with [TS]

  their entire DC bullet line and they [TS]

  rely think they realized that the [TS]

  audience of people who have not been [TS]

  buying comics and they're young enough [TS]

  that there aren't really trained to go [TS]

  to a new standard buy something on paper [TS]

  they're gonna be a whole bunch of new [TS]

  readers are coming in for other they're [TS]

  gonna be buying digitally so why not [TS]

  simply say oh and by the way you're not [TS]

  gonna have to deal with well almost all [TS]

  met your match your Black Canary with my [TS]

  power girl where well she has free put a [TS]

  couple years ago she was first supergirl [TS]

  Superman's cousin who also escaped but [TS]

  then actually turned out that she was [TS]

  restaurants here whatever and they did [TS]

  she was with the earth to choose the [TS]

  daughter of Superman that then they do [TS]

  try to do a reboot like a five-issue [TS]

  miniseries I think about six or seven [TS]

  years ago and by the end of that I was [TS]

  even more confused about where she was [TS]

  from [TS]

  then you started and I thought well I've [TS]

  just been punished for trying to pay [TS]

  attention to this character you don't do [TS]

  it [TS]

  this is just meanwhile her cleavage gets [TS]

  bigger and bigger biggest the joke is in [TS]

  the reboot she's going to flat chested [TS]

  that's how you know how different this [TS]

  is yes i think the close of the whole [TS]

  zone so there's this whole story about [TS]

  how this is a gamble by DC and and my [TS]

  question is is it a gamble because [TS]

  because the argument is they're doing [TS]

  this for new readers and they're going [TS]

  day and date with digital for new [TS]

  readers and they're risking the wrath of [TS]

  the old readers in order to reach new [TS]

  readers to which I say first [TS]

  are there really risking the wrath of [TS]

  the old readers and second are they [TS]

  really going to find new readers are [TS]

  there new comic book readers who will be [TS]

  found by this approach i think the price [TS]

  is a barrier to [TS]

  did to the digital day-and-date like [TS]

  three 395 out there and 95 and 299 the [TS]

  same as cover present on the on the [TS]

  physical issues that's my objection is [TS]

  it's the same things cover price for the [TS]

  physical issues right now if I wanted to [TS]

  I could take all of my physical issues [TS]

  and go to my next comic book store and [TS]

  trade them in for store credit [TS]

  you know it's a physical good i can i [TS]

  can pass on to people and more [TS]

  importantly i can get back a fraction of [TS]

  the value and use it to feed my habit [TS]

  and you can't really do that with [TS]

  digital assets so from the perspective [TS]

  of me as a cranky consumer while I think [TS]

  that digital issues are more convenient [TS]

  and they're actually really good for [TS]

  archiving library purposes if I decide [TS]

  okay you know what i'm really bored with [TS]

  this series I'm done with it there's no [TS]

  way for me to recruit a fraction of my [TS]

  investment in it and so I'm a little [TS]

  hesitant about the trigger and I think [TS]

  that digital issues have to be cheaper [TS]

  simply because you can't ever get back [TS]

  resale value [TS]

  I think I thought I think they have to [TS]

  modify the the retailer's though they [TS]

  have to make sure they're not saying [TS]

  that where our goal here is not [TS]

  specifically to torpedo your sales [TS]

  our goal is to make sure that we're [TS]

  expanding the market and making sure [TS]

  that we're bringing more people under [TS]

  the tent on a rolling basis right got to [TS]

  keep those buggy makers happy [TS]

  yeah you know that they're better but [TS]

  they're also realized realize they're [TS]

  not just like regular retailers really [TS]

  all successful comic book shops are the [TS]

  kind of like Apple stores and that they [TS]

  don't just sell the product also a [TS]

  meeting place or player like all the [TS]

  sort of a a drawing spot for people who [TS]

  are sort of inside this hobby that's the [TS]

  reason why you know when i moved to [TS]

  another 40 miles away from my usual [TS]

  comic shop a few years ago I do have a [TS]

  local shop in my new place that I [TS]

  sometimes go to but I'd much rather just [TS]

  simply drive 40 month 40 miles a couple [TS]

  times a month to go back to the original [TS]

  one because i like this shop not [TS]

  everyone has that into your qualifier [TS]

  was good comic shop because i was i was [TS]

  thinking about in in my small island [TS]

  town as it were we do have a local comic [TS]

  shop and we have a local game shop and [TS]

  the thing I've noticed about the gaming [TS]

  store is they host in the host in-store [TS]

  tournaments and they they host to both [TS]

  board games and video games and they [TS]

  have events that are around product [TS]

  releases and they've really made an [TS]

  effort to turn themselves into a [TS]

  community hub where people think of it [TS]

  as a defective socializing spot as well [TS]

  are [TS]

  comic book store has been considerably [TS]

  less aggressive about doing that I think [TS]

  maybe twice in the past five or six [TS]

  years she's trying to organize the movie [TS]

  night for the premiere of a comic based [TS]

  the movie but it hasn't made the same [TS]

  effort to try to tie people's avid [TS]

  interest in the product to a social [TS]

  aspect or to a wider entertainment [TS]

  lifestyle whereas good story can and [TS]

  should do that and my take is let the [TS]

  stores rise and fall based on what they [TS]

  can provide people above and beyond [TS]

  comic books [TS]

  yeah if it's shop is just selling comics [TS]

  and if they're gonna be affected by the [TS]

  digital changeover that dramatically [TS]

  than they really were going to be going [TS]

  out of business soon anyway right I'm [TS]

  not sure any measure good comic store is [TS]

  going to be is going to go out of [TS]

  business because you can get it online [TS]

  for 199 but you can get physically for [TS]

  299 either though so the the other [TS]

  factor is that DC unlike Marvel actually [TS]

  gives real royalties to their creators [TS]

  Marvel simply says that will give you [TS]

  will will give you incentives but [TS]

  remember that we have no legal with our [TS]

  contract says we don't have to do that [TS]

  we're just being great people by giving [TS]

  you what every other in publisher ever [TS]

  does DC actually does give real [TS]

  royalties and so one thing I would like [TS]

  to know is that how much are those toy [TS]

  there are those royalties tied to [TS]

  specific cover prices so it's pot it's [TS]

  possible that to keep all of these [TS]

  top-tier riders and remember they're [TS]

  carrying over all of their best riders [TS]

  from the old DC Universe the new ones [TS]

  yeah how happy they would be by saying [TS]

  oh and by the way we're also going to be [TS]

  giving people the option of buying the [TS]

  same comics that you're trying to get a [TS]

  399 royalty off of 4th 99 cents [TS]

  it'sit's kind of cut it's kind of a [TS]

  complicated issue i do wish that I do [TS]

  think that it's logical that the digital [TS]

  should copy should be less expensive i [TS]

  think that's going to be where it winds [TS]

  up but I'm happy that we just have this [TS]

  first step of being able to know that if [TS]

  there's a new copy of Justice League [TS]

  that's coming out on wednesday i can go [TS]

  to comiXology on Wednesday and by that [TS]

  comment have to wonder if this is one of [TS]

  the magical issues they decided to [TS]

  actually release [TS]

  ok so going back to Jason earlier [TS]

  question about is gonna piss off the [TS]

  current fans and will it get new fans in [TS]

  the digital gambit the yes and yes I [TS]

  don't actually say no and no [TS]

  haha he and waited but we will look at [TS]

  that I don't derail you're just saying [TS]

  that [TS]

  did you actually say that there's [TS]

  something that will not piss off in [TS]

  trench complications because that's that [TS]

  means that there's a nuclear also [TS]

  rebooting all the comic fans we are we [TS]

  are a legion of people genetically [TS]

  programmed to be pissed off about it [TS]

  like that's what actually that's my [TS]

  point about the no is yet everybody's [TS]

  gonna be all internet and mad about it [TS]

  and I'm gonna lay dying and they're just [TS]

  going to go by him and then by him again [TS]

  and then by him again and I hate this is [TS]

  my money is comic book fans are like [TS]

  Apple fans where they may complain about [TS]

  some specific facet but they're never [TS]

  gonna walk away from the product right [TS]

  or at least it's going to takes a lot [TS]

  more than that something i walked in and [TS]

  the digital market is too immature i [TS]

  think really catch on with new fans it's [TS]

  too expensive and it's too [TS]

  it's like we're the music industry was [TS]

  early on it's all proprietary formats [TS]

  it's more renting comics than buying [TS]

  them because you can't switch them from [TS]

  one app to another app there's confusion [TS]

  in the marketplace about apps and [TS]

  formats and it's kind of ridiculous and [TS]

  until that's cleared up where you can [TS]

  actually buy you know mp3 of a comic and [TS]

  you can take it and put into your itunes [TS]

  or take it and put it into another music [TS]

  collection and move it around and back [TS]

  it up and store it it i don't think it's [TS]

  going to take off because anybody who [TS]

  knows anything about digital isn't gonna [TS]

  buy into that so no ebooks are have done [TS]

  pretty well [TS]

  amazon kindle books can't go anywhere [TS]

  but on on kindle app for kindle its [TS]

  multiple devices but it's not an mp3 [TS]

  remember the itunes store didn't exist [TS]

  before you had have an itunes store and [TS]

  that all those problems where you had [TS]

  nothing but the RM content you can only [TS]

  play it in itunes or on Apple devices [TS]

  you have the first success before [TS]

  everybody else is gonna start jumping in [TS]

  the pool but but in itunes you could [TS]

  take your cds and rip them into itunes [TS]

  you can't take comments you may already [TS]

  have because say you bought that Marvel [TS]

  DVD way back when that was just full of [TS]

  pdfs of all of their comics you can't [TS]

  take that and put it in any of these [TS]

  comic readers right right so let's take [TS]

  a step back from from a comic industry [TS]

  because that it is interesting that this [TS]

  is a creative gambit that is of course [TS]

  tied to a very specific kind of economic [TS]

  gambit and it's it and the marketing is [TS]

  a part of it and the digital thing being [TS]

  announced simultaneously is apart [TS]

  bit they're telling a story here but [TS]

  they're also telling stories here so I'm [TS]

  curious from you guys who have spent far [TS]

  more in this world than I have um you [TS]

  know what do you know about about what [TS]

  they're planning i do we know creatively [TS]

  what they're doing it to these [TS]

  characters I know they've been rolling [TS]

  out new titles and I saw that like Paul [TS]

  Cornell has got a medieval superhero [TS]

  title coming out jack kirby's the demon [TS]

  you gotta bring in which is which is [TS]

  which is fun that's why I know they're [TS]

  mixing up the the the creative teams on [TS]

  these on these books by just curious [TS]

  about what struck you creatively about [TS]

  what they're doing economics aside and [TS]

  marketing aside and and just you know [TS]

  hype aside you know are they doing [TS]

  interesting things that didn't that are [TS]

  encouraging and I loved ultimate [TS]

  spider-man when it came out because I [TS]

  thought it was a great thing to revisit [TS]

  that character from square one Saudi [TS]

  saying we're doing that with our whole [TS]

  universe right [TS]

  the younger prettier more high school [TS]

  early universe is essentially because [TS]

  everybody's going to be younger versions [TS]

  of the characters and instead of that [TS]

  says I'll be interested to see how they [TS]

  write them because the average age [TS]

  another blogger went through and take a [TS]

  look at the writers and the average age [TS]

  of the the writers on the new DC titles [TS]

  is somewhere between 47 and 51 one of [TS]

  those writers ever grew up come on [TS]

  yeah and and to be to be fair if you're [TS]

  that age you may well have teenagers in [TS]

  the house so you're pretty tapped into [TS]

  both the emotional state and how they're [TS]

  talking much more than somebody who [TS]

  doesn't have have kids and go ahead i [TS]

  was just gonna say gail simone did a [TS]

  nice interview Newsarama recently that [TS]

  that there's there's still so much about [TS]

  this this restart that's a they can't [TS]

  talk about yeah but she the point that [TS]

  she was making this not so much making [TS]

  the characters younger so much as [TS]

  visiting them at a point where they were [TS]

  quite so experience she was talking [TS]

  about Barbara Gordon for instance in the [TS]

  problem we're now there's the this that [TS]

  there's enough infrastructure in the [TS]

  existing DC Universe that if Batman [TS]

  wants to know as it has there ever been [TS]

  a tree with more than three leaves on a [TS]

  ship from the port of Gotham to any [TS]

  destination that has more than four [TS]

  buildings that have more than 31 stories [TS]

  and an ice cream parlor and he simply [TS]

  contact oracle and articles only one and [TS]

  here's the address and then he's getting [TS]

  tops that [TS]

  rest now he's there that part of the [TS]

  problem at least the way that scale [TS]

  smalls explaining is that that it's part [TS]

  of a move to do a story where now Batman [TS]

  really has to work to figure out these [TS]

  things where it's it's no longer the [TS]

  he's no longer doing a castle [TS]

  walkthrough like a look at a video game [TS]

  he's simply having to figure things out [TS]

  he doesn't have all those resources and [TS]

  all that experience it's not just a a [TS]

  we're gonna make everybody young and [TS]

  pretty necessarily although that may [TS]

  also do that but to some of the [TS]

  characters but I do see the point that [TS]

  it's also the encumbrance of the [TS]

  continuity of saying not only do they [TS]

  not have the complex backstories but we [TS]

  we don't have to say well we establish [TS]

  recently that this person had this [TS]

  capabilities you can sort of deep our [TS]

  people a little bit put more things in [TS]

  their way [TS]

  you know I tell tell some stories I I [TS]

  they paint themselves in a corner in [TS]

  many ways just by telling all those [TS]

  stories over all those years jump to [TS]

  andy's point there is a really [TS]

  sophisticated infrastructure in place in [TS]

  this universe right now and Gail [TS]

  Simone's actually played with it in [TS]

  birds of prey before the most recent [TS]

  reboot before she left that title to go [TS]

  right Wonder Woman and see what i mean [TS]

  about the continuity in the way but [TS]

  birds of prey i want to say probably [TS]

  back in 2007-2008 there was a plot line [TS]

  where somebody tries to take down oracle [TS]

  and at the end of it all oracle has to [TS]

  do is pick up the phone and something [TS]

  like 13 former operatives come rushing [TS]

  to her rescue and although part of the [TS]

  point to that story was Oracle's got [TS]

  this network of people who like hurrah [TS]

  but it also points that is there was [TS]

  almost nothing you could do to that [TS]

  character at that point anymore because [TS]

  she had she had a computer system place [TS]

  she had social networking and social [TS]

  networks in place she had experience in [TS]

  place and all of these senior senior [TS]

  quote level superheroes have that where [TS]

  you know I have an undersea Kingdom that [TS]

  i have in the palm of my hook [TS]

  oh I have oracle who can some [TS]

  information when I need it [TS]

  oh I have this this this raft of friends [TS]

  who will run to the rescue when I need [TS]

  it it's there there was no space for [TS]

  people who are starting out everybody's [TS]

  got too much history with each other too [TS]

  much personal history you can't say even [TS]

  if you took somebody who was you know 30 [TS]

  in the comics you you could have them [TS]

  still be 30 but haven't [TS]

  30 and not have experienced anything and [TS]

  only now becoming who you know who [TS]

  they're they're going to be sounds [TS]

  sounds good again i'm just wondering [TS]

  what are there are they doing some [TS]

  specific things here or is it all just [TS]

  kind of hazy you know trust us it'll be [TS]

  like different but the same but I think [TS]

  they're going to move it you know what [TS]

  do you think you're going [TS]

  I i do think that this is this is [TS]

  actually coming i keep thinking about [TS]

  that line from The Godfather Clemenza [TS]

  he's talking about the upcoming five [TS]

  family sports as this is good this is [TS]

  these things these kind of things that [TS]

  happen every 10 years get rid of all the [TS]

  bad blood and actually much rather it it [TS]

  really is a good case up let's have a [TS]

  streamline continuity we know after we [TS]

  no longer have to worry that oh well [TS]

  didn't it doesn't Catwoman have a secret [TS]

  child from four years ago or do does it [TS]

  why doesn't anybody talked about the [TS]

  fact that the Peter Parker we now know [TS]

  actually crawled out of the desiccated [TS]

  husk of the body of Peter Parker as a [TS]

  half-formed spider thing welcome nobody [TS]

  talks about that anymore and I i do [TS]

  think that every 10 years almost there [TS]

  needs to be a moment with were saying [TS]

  well it's just a comic book everybody we [TS]

  can just simply say we're going to start [TS]

  all over again we're doing a very tiny [TS]

  way but we're gonna say that but they [TS]

  the alternative is to do things like [TS]

  what Marvel did with one more day to get [TS]

  rid of the spider-man marriage where [TS]

  you're really going to do a four-issue [TS]

  limited series when you can just simply [TS]

  have page 1 of the next issue spider and [TS]

  being hi Tom Brevoort here the creative [TS]

  director Marvel we just decided that we [TS]

  don't want them to be married anymore [TS]

  just keep that in mind and go I'm glad [TS]

  you brought that up because one of the [TS]

  complaints that one more day is why [TS]

  would you ask for it may be brought back [TS]

  from the dead when the input there's [TS]

  Wednesday see there's Uncle Ben these [TS]

  things never change and one of the [TS]

  things that DC is very old and she's [TS]

  almost died or died many times before [TS]

  but one of the things that DC is [TS]

  actually doing that I find interesting [TS]

  even those little controversial is [TS]

  they're giving proper Gordon back the [TS]

  ability to walk you know she's gonna be [TS]

  running around his back girl now because [TS]

  as they said it did it doesn't make [TS]

  sense the DC Universe to have a to have [TS]

  a paraplegic when you've got all sorts [TS]

  of crazy you know alien technologies and [TS]

  supernatural stuff going on mr. Lazarus [TS]

  Pit you got it yeah like what why stick [TS]

  in a wheelchair when you know your [TS]

  towels Batman and you have the world at [TS]

  your disposal and so I do like that [TS]

  they're just saying all right you know [TS]

  what Oracle had a good run though [TS]

  going back to classic Batgirl yeah [TS]

  exactly and message you know I kind of [TS]

  applied the gutsiness that decision [TS]

  I mean I i I'll grieve for the for the [TS]

  dissolving of the the birds of prey team [TS]

  because i really loved the Oracle back [TS]

  at Oracle Black Canary Huntress trilogy [TS]

  but i think it's great that they're [TS]

  doing if they do it like Ultimate Marvel [TS]

  one of the options that they have is to [TS]

  remix things and do things like create [TS]

  an Oracle who isn't the Oracle you know [TS]

  i just well actually I what's the point [TS]

  i hope they go that up that route [TS]

  because one of the interesting things [TS]

  when they went from the Golden Age the [TS]

  Silver Age was they just took the names [TS]

  and created new carry lantern sure [TS]

  around those names and i think there's [TS]

  some interesting which is why you've got [TS]

  if they're good reason stories [TS]

  yeah well including the whole sorry the [TS]

  dollars i'm sorry completely pointless [TS]

  but it broke i say i think that that [TS]

  could be really interesting and the [TS]

  Ultimate Universe one of the things and [TS]

  Marvel Ultimate Universe that was so [TS]

  brilliant about that is Jameis Bill [TS]

  James who is in charge of marvel at the [TS]

  time and really architected that or [TS]

  pushed it his whole point was there [TS]

  should be no continuity even in the [TS]

  Ultimate Universe right you should just [TS]

  be free from it free from it completely [TS]

  and he strived at first to keep writers [TS]

  from putting in any continuity into it [TS]

  when he returns are archetypes and then [TS]

  they have adventures and that's it right [TS]

  and put that's that could be possible [TS]

  you really can't that you i think with [TS]

  the great things about comics is that [TS]

  you see this overlaying overlaying [TS]

  overlaying tax-free of these histories [TS]

  characters and time moving forward tends [TS]

  to inform both the editors the writers [TS]

  in the readers what parts of this [TS]

  history are important enough that we're [TS]

  going to consider that important and [TS]

  what parts like you know Peter Parker [TS]

  climbing out of the desiccated husk of [TS]

  his former corpse arenas simply pretend [TS]

  not happen so this there's definitely [TS]

  happy medium to be done and but that [TS]

  means you need a brush fire every 10 [TS]

  years to clear away the continuity [TS]

  rightly but getting back to back early [TS]

  though the the thing that really puts [TS]

  puts it all into perspective is that I i [TS]

  love oracle and i love the birds birds [TS]

  of prey book i love the I love that [TS]

  version of Barbara Gordon where [TS]

  Batgirl never interested me at all [TS]

  the idea of okay hey look it's lady [TS]

  battle but she's in heels and she has an [TS]

  action person yes she's an ass kicker [TS]

  but looking at look at that flowing red [TS]

  hair huh guys and it just it just never [TS]

  really clicked with me and so I didn't [TS]

  that was a time and so when I started [TS]

  getting back into DC and I found this [TS]

  character oracle thatthat's thatthat's [TS]

  the version of Barbara Gordon that I [TS]

  really really liked and really click [TS]

  with andrea and although I'm [TS]

  disappointed that version is going away [TS]

  have to remember that there was a time [TS]

  when someone said we're going to [TS]

  essentially in a non dramatic way we're [TS]

  going to reboot back girl she's no [TS]

  longer action girl in a cape and ecology [TS]

  is now confined to a wheelchair and has [TS]

  to use her in from there's a dick memory [TS]

  and her information skills to do stuff [TS]

  so if it wasn't for the fact that [TS]

  someone decided to simply do a complete [TS]

  180 on this character I would never have [TS]

  found this version that I really really [TS]

  liked so I have to think that there's [TS]

  gonna be a whole bunch of characters in [TS]

  the DC Universe that I'm no longer going [TS]

  to be terribly interested in but maybe [TS]

  they're going to they're going to have a [TS]

  new version of Green Lantern's that I [TS]

  actually do get and maybe a new version [TS]

  of all these other characters the [TS]

  Justice League which never really [TS]

  clicked with me as a book maybe now i'll [TS]

  actually liked it so you gotta be gotta [TS]

  take the good with the bad now and it [TS]

  remains to be seen whether they've got a [TS]

  plan to do [TS]

  presumably they've got some ground rules [TS]

  right are they going to do what Marvel [TS]

  did which is say we're going to rethink [TS]

  some characters and but we're also going [TS]

  to retell stories we already told right [TS]

  i mean the ultimate spider-man retails [TS]

  basically a lot of the classic story [TS]

  points of of amazing spider-man [TS]

  so you know on one level that's fun but [TS]

  on another level it's rehashing the past [TS]

  so they could choose to say well you [TS]

  know after a few years were going to do [TS]

  something to her and she's going to be [TS]

  oracle or they could say forget it no do [TS]

  tell your own stories go in a new [TS]

  direction so it in a lot of ways it's [TS]

  just like a remake of a good movie [TS]

  well one of the problems ultimate social [TS]

  that's ultimately spider-man 2 25 30 [TS]

  years of amazing spider-man and [TS]

  spectacular spiderman the whole [TS]

  spider-man mythos and said okay out of [TS]

  that what are what could we build you [TS]

  know 74 issue story arcs out of and and [TS]

  you've got 30 years to put to play with [TS]

  and as a result that's a you know and [TS]

  the good writing but it's a it's a good [TS]

  book because of that you know but at the [TS]

  same time there [TS]

  for about the first 60 issues there was [TS]

  really nothing original other than the [TS]

  rethinking of and i love it i love that [TS]

  book dearly and I love that it's modern [TS]

  and it's expanded out in its place like [TS]

  buffy the vampire slayer with spider-man [TS]

  but it's not going over any new ground [TS]

  it's all the classic ground it's more of [TS]

  a nostalgia trip rough like like a movie [TS]

  remake it is a really well written story [TS]

  which i think is yeah he's always story [TS]

  written interview just mentally I mean [TS]

  as much as i enjoy some characters i'll [TS]

  be honest i enjoy right i enjoy the [TS]

  writers more when Gail Simone left birds [TS]

  of prey so did I because i read one or [TS]

  two of the new issues and i didn't like [TS]

  where the characters were going I didn't [TS]

  think the writing was the same so I left [TS]

  because of the story not because you [TS]

  think of the opportunity of saying you [TS]

  know we we can explore the [TS]

  batman/superman relationship fresh [TS]

  without any of that we could talk about [TS]

  Batman getting a young Ward and having [TS]

  them become Robin you know at and [TS]

  Generals the size of that yeah maybe but [TS]

  you could you could choose to do it and [TS]

  if you had a good writer who had a good [TS]

  take on that that could be really [TS]

  interesting and it does i would like to [TS]

  see him introduce new characters because [TS]

  I think that's actually been problematic [TS]

  in both Marvel and DC there have been so [TS]

  few characters introduced in the last I [TS]

  would say what 15 20 years who have [TS]

  stuck on is not mostly because of the [TS]

  rise of indie comics and that creators [TS]

  don't want to create new intellectual [TS]

  property for their studios and healthy [TS]

  disincentive but i'm thinking for [TS]

  example there's been a real push behind [TS]

  Renee Montoya especially as the question [TS]

  the question and she's just and she's [TS]

  never gained attraction and I think part [TS]

  of this may be because it's it might be [TS]

  cousin Oliver thing um but but part of [TS]

  it is also when you've got all of these [TS]

  characters that you've had for years and [TS]

  years and years you're like oh great [TS]

  here's another one who may stick or may [TS]

  not stick so you can reboot characters [TS]

  without rebooting the archetypes right i [TS]

  mean i like the Blue Beetle comic i [TS]

  thought that was really good Jason [TS]

  recommended that to me and I'll Jaime [TS]

  Reyes thing where it's like we're going [TS]

  to set in in Texas and he's gonna be [TS]

  Hispanic and he's gonna you know he's [TS]

  not gonna be he's gonna be like on the [TS]

  outside and totally shocked when he's [TS]

  interacting with other superheroes [TS]

  because he's just created [TS]

  and and so it's still very literally not [TS]

  yeah it's really the DC version of [TS]

  spider-man I really think the blue the [TS]

  blue beetle is everything about [TS]

  spider-man that i missed with mom yeah [TS]

  i'm reading a blue beetle ultimate [TS]

  spider-man and invincible right i'm [TS]

  reading the same comic three times but [TS]

  they're all good yeah although I'm and [TS]

  here you are actually tightly [TS]

  undercutting my point one of my favorite [TS]

  book one of my favorite books is getting [TS]

  canceled by DC is secret six which is [TS]

  another Gail Simone property of smoke [TS]

  and isn't now the secret seven is that [TS]

  the name of the new sorry it's something [TS]

  else series it's a completely different [TS]

  composition around but basically they're [TS]

  wrapping up secret six with issue 36 and [TS]

  that was a tremendously successful [TS]

  series and i had a number of original [TS]

  characters that Gail Simone created it [TS]

  wasn't just I've dug these people out of [TS]

  the archives from the Silver Age she [TS]

  came up with scandal savage daughter of [TS]

  Vandal Savage [TS]

  I narrow and and Jeanette the band she [TS]

  was a genuinely cool and disturbing [TS]

  figure and Peter miracle who's the rag [TS]

  doll and they're there they're very [TS]

  vivid characters so as they're gonna be [TS]

  a bloodbath at the end of the DC [TS]

  Universe here before they reboot are [TS]

  they are they are they like tactically [TS]

  just gonna murder people horribly [TS]

  Ultimate Universe with a ground people [TS]

  had them eating and no I'm just thinking [TS]

  of the continuity ends until the next [TS]

  infinite super infinite crisis where [TS]

  they bring it back again sorry i had to [TS]

  say it that you know they could do like [TS]

  dramatic Superman dies for real was [TS]

  there doing a series now called flash [TS]

  point which is supposed to be what's [TS]

  leading into this reboot in the fall [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and I read the first two issues of it [TS]

  successfully explain this to me you said [TS]

  leading into the reboot is that mean [TS]

  they're closing the door on the old [TS]

  thing or are they doing some sort of [TS]

  like in-universe explanation for why [TS]

  this is happening because that would be [TS]

  bad essentially flash has has woken up [TS]

  in this alternate universe where Bruce [TS]

  Wayne's parents didn't get killed Bruce [TS]

  Wayne and his mom got killed so now [TS]

  Batman is Thomas weight and so they're [TS]

  setting up some of these new universe [TS]

  titles now in it because shade the [TS]

  changing man is there in leading the [TS]

  secret seven kind of thing in this [TS]

  universe where Wonder Woman and Aquaman [TS]

  or the Amazons in the Atlanteans are [TS]

  fighting over Europe and it's like a big [TS]

  war [TS]

  this is supposed to be where they're [TS]

  going to set the rest of this stuff and [TS]

  I think there's this crazy pocket thing [TS]

  they've set here and my guess is at the [TS]

  end of it that goes away but the [TS]

  original thing doesn't come back its now [TS]

  this new version of the original thing [TS]

  so it's in that a farscape that really [TS]

  interesting sci-fi TV show a while back [TS]

  with money that's right with puppets [TS]

  they had that thing where they went back [TS]

  in time and actually change these events [TS]

  by accident they went back to try and [TS]

  fix them and they just made them worse [TS]

  talked about that episode on a previous [TS]

  so yeah odd cast yeah i think they may [TS]

  try to do that where things are [TS]

  different and the characters are going [TS]

  to try to make them back to the same and [TS]

  what they end up doing is making this [TS]

  new universe which is kind of the same [TS]

  but I really so I really hope Thomas [TS]

  windows into a noble self-sacrifice that [TS]

  separated so basically the flashes like [TS]

  mr. Spock in the Star Trek reboot [TS]

  yeah but he's not so he's in this place [TS]

  he's got no powers and he just tried to [TS]

  recreate the experiment and dosed [TS]

  himself and chemicals and electrocute [TS]

  himself to get a speed power back and [TS]

  the last panel on issue 2 again spoiler [TS]

  alert [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  leaves him as this chart burnt mess [TS]

  because it just cast himself had a [TS]

  lightning bolt it is gonna catch it [TS]

  right so that was kind of fun not mad [TS]

  but that's like everybody in this next [TS]

  week whenever for a ride Green Lantern [TS]

  point right [TS]

  o dot the way blend next we've got four [TS]

  astronauts instead to get a spaceship [TS]

  with insufficient shielding let's see [TS]

  what happens great we've got a flight [TS]

  but so superhero sleepers and even as a [TS]

  little bit more amusing than probably [TS]

  what they were going for and which makes [TS]

  me nervous about the entire reboot I [TS]

  don't think this series flashpoints been [TS]

  written very well so far at least it [TS]

  hasn't resonated with me so it sounds [TS]

  like what they're trying to do is create [TS]

  sort of an in-universe explanation for [TS]

  why you won't see it anymore right [TS]

  but you know the idea what makes me wary [TS]

  is that by not having if you if you have [TS]

  the new universe be created in in the [TS]

  roots of story from the previous [TS]

  universe it's like you know you're just [TS]

  you're just asking for it actually has [TS]

  maybe they're going for again this is my [TS]

  opinion said it didn't resonate with me [TS]

  is this little thing that create with [TS]

  flash point is so terrible that anything [TS]

  that replace it with his gonna be better [TS]

  like oh my god I love this so much more [TS]

  than a piece of crap flashpoint so out [TS]

  of curiosity with the Atlanteans [TS]

  fighting the Amazonians it is Aquaman [TS]

  any cooler or patent or I mean I've only [TS]

  seen him in a couple of panels Emperor [TS]

  Aquaman I believe he was and he had [TS]

  orange pants as well as a reddish orange [TS]

  top and he was mean Emperor seen again [TS]

  Emperor occupation but that's like [TS]

  saying the president leader guy I know [TS]

  if it if that name is on the top of the [TS]

  top of the resume he's not getting an [TS]

  interview let me know your name is on [TS]

  you and hey online pseudonym is Emperor [TS]

  are right and so he's flooded most of [TS]

  your Emperor lit under water and water [TS]

  guy and I don't know I mean out remember [TS]

  the name of the science fiction fantasy [TS]

  book i read where the leaders of Europe [TS]

  did actually have to negotiate with [TS]

  mermaids for rights to water passages [TS]

  during the Elizabethan times and [TS]

  two-thirds of the earth's surface is [TS]

  covered with water why would he need to [TS]

  flood Europe because he wants the [TS]

  cathedral because he it [TS]

  not the considered he was looking for [TS]

  the good three wants to make the [TS]

  land-dwellers nervous and remind them [TS]

  who's in charge i mean it wants to live [TS]

  on a mountain top and you just can't do [TS]

  that in the ocean [TS]

  valentina and it's gonna drive me crazy [TS]

  until I remember the name of the author [TS]

  of the book but basically in this in the [TS]

  science-fiction book i read the mermaids [TS]

  quickly realized that they basically [TS]

  controlled all of the waterways in the [TS]

  world if the landowners want to get [TS]

  anything done [TS]

  they're going to have to go through the [TS]

  mermaids and so the mermaids based [TS]

  mermaids [TS]

  yeah they started in Venice and then [TS]

  moved out and were like alright if you [TS]

  people want to ever leave your country's [TS]

  again you're gonna have to guess what we [TS]

  want whenever we want it a lot of the [TS]

  Fighting's over Great Britain which is [TS]

  you know it's an island so so let me ask [TS]

  you [TS]

  mermaids aside as did these work to [TS]

  these reboots work is this is this a is [TS]

  this a if the story idea is it okay if [TS]

  we view it as a temporary fix and accept [TS]

  that it's not a comfortable and if the [TS]

  stories are good it's days if the [TS]

  stories are good they'll pretty quickly [TS]

  fade back like the one year later they [TS]

  did a couple years ago now where the [TS]

  entire universe jumped forward one year [TS]

  and it was like starting over kind of [TS]

  gas because i had been buying a whole [TS]

  lot of times before that and then they [TS]

  started in with oh and now we're going [TS]

  to fix everything and I thought I'm [TS]

  gonna fix myself but it's marble that [TS]

  that's why i've been following [TS]

  flashpoint either a both of these big [TS]

  companies as soon as I see some sort of [TS]

  custom logo on the top of more than [TS]

  three comics at a time [TS]

  I'm not judging I'm just simply saying [TS]

  that as a consumer making the decision [TS]

  that I'm probably not going to enjoy [TS]

  reading this yeah i've been reading the [TS]

  ultimate spider-man arc that's the death [TS]

  of Spiderman which has gotta love those [TS]

  attached to it everywhere and first off [TS]

  it's either a cheat or you have [TS]

  telegraphed whole story so you failed [TS]

  either way with it [TS]

  well done face but and of course yes [TS]

  that that they already killed him once [TS]

  and he didn't die and now they're going [TS]

  to kill himself him again and I assume [TS]

  again he won't actually die they'll just [TS]

  have a different spider-man and then [TS]

  we'll come back later and I think that's [TS]

  what that's what it looks like so funny [TS]

  that people making such a big deal out [TS]

  of it because you can either do the the [TS]

  actual number one remember everything [TS]

  reboot or you can do the status quo [TS]

  which is the non stop rolling reboots [TS]

  where there's cotton there things that [TS]

  happen but two years later either it has [TS]

  been explicitly undone where you know [TS]

  but I think with them [TS]

  little boy did they have guts and my [TS]

  guts I'm used i'm replacing that for the [TS]

  word that they should actually really is [TS]

  yeah where they said no captain [TS]

  america's real dead really dead you see [TS]

  is the body he's an old man that's all [TS]

  desiccated and look we're burying the [TS]

  book and other stuff was showing you how [TS]

  can we be showing you the stuff we was [TS]

  really dead and of course [TS]

  meanwhile there's a whiteboard somewhere [TS]

  in marble saying okay here's why he [TS]

  wasn't really yeah it's like eight years [TS]

  that here's the date in the issue which [TS]

  were bringing him back or or once again [TS]

  you do the selective let's just forget [TS]

  the j martins reasons he's running [TS]

  spider-man everything I really hate [TS]

  about the rolling reboots is they always [TS]

  give you an opportunity later when they [TS]

  decided some character needs to be [TS]

  broken are promoted then they get their [TS]

  little five-issue miniseries where they [TS]

  like spend six or seven panels just be [TS]

  moaning all of the different continuity [TS]

  glitches they've had to experience the [TS]

  last 20 years [TS]

  yeah i would prefer like a series of [TS]

  like miniseries and another series that [TS]

  are our exist all on their own and their [TS]

  own continuity and have a throw the [TS]

  other characters in but they're not [TS]

  actually tied like it used to be back in [TS]

  the in the old days that's that's one of [TS]

  things i always loved about DC they [TS]

  weren't afraid to say if they have an [TS]

  opportunity to have met Wagner do a [TS]

  Batman Grendel crossover they didn't [TS]

  spend a lot of time worrying about well [TS]

  but where does this appear in continuity [TS]

  does this happen every killing joke or [TS]

  after killing joke they said no we'll [TS]

  just doing looking for stories [TS]

  oh wait matt says he really wants to [TS]

  have it happen and then y Mar Germany ok [TS]

  will slap in all sports logo on if we [TS]

  can have it happen by Margaret who cares [TS]

  it's a good story just great just what I [TS]

  read ya in like that captain america [TS]

  story brought up which I remember [TS]

  ridiculing when they first announced it [TS]

  and ended up being actually specifically [TS]

  a good story that lasted for like two [TS]

  and a half years and Brubaker's a good [TS]

  writer and and the Bucky the Bucky [TS]

  Winter Soldier stuff well i thought was [TS]

  an interesting kind of almost a [TS]

  Redemption kind of Arc it was it was a [TS]

  good story it wasn't just a publicity [TS]

  stunt right which is great when we add [TS]

  to the beginning is it can be both they [TS]

  can be before it can be one man I i [TS]

  think it will go down as I i I've been [TS]

  reading comics for a long time now but [TS]

  my habits have changed over the years [TS]

  from like buying every issue of my [TS]

  favorite titles and being a fan of X [TS]

  some kind of hand of the medium [TS]

  now and i will read the good story arc [TS]

  here and then not read that title again [TS]

  because you know they go from good story [TS]

  arcs to crap and I'll get the hard [TS]

  covers or trade paperbacks of those good [TS]

  story arcs into me that's now the [TS]

  character not all that stuff that [TS]

  happens in between good story arcs that [TS]

  could put in those trade paperbacks that [TS]

  are there year after year after year [TS]

  after year right with with the added [TS]

  continuity housecleaning that has to [TS]

  happen in order to extend to explain [TS]

  things instead of just telling story in [TS]

  a lot of ways i'm not even aware of that [TS]

  anyone would we be better off would end [TS]

  with the comics industry be better off [TS]

  if Marvel or DC said here's what we're [TS]

  going to do every four years [TS]

  we're gonna we're gonna reboot right [TS]

  just say it just say we're gonna do like [TS]

  TV seasons we're going to do for years [TS]

  and they're going to be natural [TS]

  endpoints and then we're going to tell [TS]

  more stories or would they be better off [TS]

  doing what their because I'd is the [TS]

  reception to the rolling reboot know [TS]

  I've always I've always thought that the [TS]

  the whole idea of having 600 issues of a [TS]

  series is just so 19 what's a soap opera [TS]

  rice that is just don't need I think [TS]

  they should simply saying we all know [TS]

  who the Fantastic Four are we know who [TS]

  Superman is you don't have to start a [TS]

  new series with a one-page recap of the [TS]

  origin just simply say we've got a story [TS]

  about the Fantastic Four that will take [TS]

  up 12 issues and so we're just going to [TS]

  have this story that text artificial [TS]

  number one ends with this number 12 and [TS]

  we can know what we can have four [TS]

  different fantastic four stories going [TS]

  at the same time it seems like we're [TS]

  treating continuity like a liability [TS]

  here though but it it in some ways [TS]

  continuity for the buying habits of the [TS]

  the world today is a liability [TS]

  it's also what's kept fans coming back [TS]

  for so long because there's that soap [TS]

  opera quality and you get invested in [TS]

  the lives but the idea of a good story [TS]

  is a good story like Batman by gag but [TS]

  was a Gotham by Gaslight which was later [TS]

  it was in elseworld before they came up [TS]

  with the term elseworlds it was just a [TS]

  good story of a batman vs jack the [TS]

  ripper story and we want to read that [TS]

  drawn by mike mignola it was beautiful [TS]

  and amazing and you know who carried it [TS]

  who cares where ties in anything it just [TS]

  standalone story really good little game [TS]

  into that I'm [TS]

  whatever happened to the Caped Crusader [TS]

  that was the following that sort of [TS]

  whatever and emmanuel wright and it was [TS]

  it was literally outside of all [TS]

  continuity because it was sort of [TS]

  various Batman throughout time who had [TS]

  died in different continuities and they [TS]

  had all come together and it was yes it [TS]

  was met I was a story about the stories [TS]

  but it was a great story just like neil [TS]

  gaiman Zhan 1602 was a great story and [TS]

  it was it was aggressively not set in [TS]

  continuity but it didn't matter and I [TS]

  wasn't even not to comment at the end [TS]

  because they're like oh it's in a bottle [TS]

  you know yeah he's right this bottle so [TS]

  it doesn't screw thread right right but [TS]

  it was but as a story was just you know [TS]

  who cares why it is the way it is and [TS]

  you know I think maybe that's what DC [TS]

  was trying with those with the [TS]

  Straczynski Superman book was just sort [TS]

  of say can we just tell stories and not [TS]

  worry about universe building i think [TS]

  those so much of their business is based [TS]

  on having this either woven series of [TS]

  titles that they can interrelate and [TS]

  create events on that in a minute but [TS]

  maybe this is the progression of the [TS]

  comic industry that at some point we're [TS]

  going to come out of this with a very [TS]

  different mechanism for publishing [TS]

  stories that doesn't involve this kind [TS]

  of level of red web of continuity as it [TS]

  does it go from that see realized [TS]

  monthly pamphlet to every couple of [TS]

  months you get a much bigger sort of [TS]

  novel that has a beginning middle and [TS]

  end of some comic story and it's all by [TS]

  itself like a movie so Andy what it is [TS]

  they're still on appeal to the kind of [TS]

  interrelated web of a comic book [TS]

  universe with characters crossing over [TS]

  and things like that or is it something [TS]

  that is kind of past it's past its prime [TS]

  I think that ye there's nothing [TS]

  inherently wrong with it it just has to [TS]

  be done very very well it's it's superb [TS]

  when you're doing this if you're if [TS]

  you're writing a story and just for the [TS]

  writers point of view and you just need [TS]

  something to happen and it's not really [TS]

  important that this character the [TS]

  difficulties that you're not telling the [TS]

  story of how did this character happened [TS]

  to get passage between planet earth and [TS]

  this other planet that he's just [TS]

  hypothesized exist you really just want [TS]

  to get to this other planets you move [TS]

  the story forward the same reason why [TS]

  Gene Roddenberry did invented the [TS]

  transport because he doesn't want to [TS]

  simply say and now they jumped the [TS]

  transporter and boom there the planet's [TS]

  surface and we continue the story [TS]

  when you have a shared universe you can [TS]

  simply say let me call Reed Richards let [TS]

  me see if he'll let me shuttlecraft so i [TS]

  can actually try to look at this and [TS]

  then panel number two you're into the [TS]

  story so that's the sort of place where [TS]

  the sort of shared universes can be done [TS]

  really well [TS]

  also we've all we've all been in [TS]

  situations where we thought well gee how [TS]

  come what kind of story would you have [TS]

  if Jesus the the valid from PG Wodehouse [TS]

  stories teamed up with Batman he that [TS]

  it's not a set of being instead of being [TS]

  Alfred it's actually jeans or jeans and [TS]

  thora Batman has to stop Batman has to [TS]

  solve a mystery of a murder that happens [TS]

  at Blandings castle all these characters [TS]

  that you it'sit's not that you want to [TS]

  do the stupid phantom mashup ok so if [TS]

  Superman fuck captain america now let's [TS]

  say that Wonder Woman communities last [TS]

  so but if if you actually start thinking [TS]

  of these are two interesting characters [TS]

  that who that really play off each other [TS]

  I thought that well when you leverage [TS]

  that really really effectively you can [TS]

  wind up with something like the Trinity [TS]

  that DC wound up with when they when [TS]

  they decided to simply treat Wonder [TS]

  Woman Batman and Superman as the hub of [TS]

  their entire universe where these are [TS]

  the guys these are the Mount Rushmore of [TS]

  their universe where when wonder woman [TS]

  gets involved things get real and when [TS]

  you have Batman and Superman yeah [TS]

  seriously with it when you get because [TS]

  one room that one woman is the Wonder [TS]

  Woman is the person who's not talking [TS]

  about of it she might even she might [TS]

  even say I'm giving you an opportunity [TS]

  to I forgive you for all the sins you [TS]

  feel that you've transformed as grass in [TS]

  the past two years [TS]

  come let us sit together let's break [TS]

  bread and then you don't do that okay [TS]

  well i guess i'm just going to twist [TS]

  your head [TS]

  well 270 degrees from the front of your [TS]

  body and you'll simply be dead because [TS]

  unfortunately that's the only solution [TS]

  to the problem goodnight [TS]

  it is fun to play and and have good [TS]

  writers plan those kind of universes [TS]

  it's just got this huge downside which [TS]

  is over time you accumulate continuity [TS]

  and you gotta blow it out any clutter [TS]

  and and you need to do with DC has done [TS]

  in the past which I really am an [TS]

  opponent of which is the we're going to [TS]

  create a multiverse crisis where we're [TS]

  going to whole stories that are about [TS]

  continuity or yeah full credit to them [TS]

  you can just say you know what we're [TS]

  going to just reboot now and and we're [TS]

  just not work that's it we're not going [TS]

  to explain [TS]

  well except there's flashpoint [TS]

  apparently we're just going to do it and [TS]

  what [TS]

  draw a line will do that for a while [TS]

  until it clutters up again and we'll [TS]

  figure out what to do then you know [TS]

  maybe everybody should do that maybe [TS]

  Marvel should should do that too [TS]

  although I guess Marvel did and it just [TS]

  did they just couldn't get rid of the [TS]

  old thing [TS]

  part of the problem the opening hours a [TS]

  lot of ways is the only thing is a lot [TS]

  at what they did they gradually kind of [TS]

  pushed the the current marvel to be so [TS]

  much like ultimate that it doesn't [TS]

  really matter didn't we talk about how [TS]

  one of the problems in the Ultimate [TS]

  Universe was after a while it protects [TS]

  my head writers that were really big on [TS]

  introducing stuff from continuity that's [TS]

  always been the problem and I think the [TS]

  DC is going to face that 10-20 reggie [TS]

  old stories are not as much as like [TS]

  Robert Kirkman I really didn't like his [TS]

  run on ultimate x-men because he was [TS]

  responsible for bringing back in some of [TS]

  the some of the the continuity elements [TS]

  especially from these are the days of [TS]

  future past remake yeah and yeah and it [TS]

  was a disaster eight stories [TS]

  yeah the original anyway yes yeah but I [TS]

  i think part of the problem is you do [TS]

  have writers who cherish continuity [TS]

  because they do admire the clever [TS]

  storytelling twister the way people [TS]

  write themselves running out of corners [TS]

  this is actually my problems with the [TS]

  kingdom come [TS]

  is I think it kind i think it's kind of [TS]

  a gateway drug to continuity overdose [TS]

  continuity poor yeah exactly right get [TS]

  your very end as a writer I'm sure this [TS]

  person is very very proud but I have to [TS]

  find an elevator with the meta comic-con [TS]

  and I've got two minutes to say [TS]

  something to them i have to say you know [TS]

  what [TS]

  actually I've never wondered about what [TS]

  was going through the mind of that guy [TS]

  in the cover of action comics when he [TS]

  was pointing at Superman lifting up a [TS]

  car that's really never occurred to me [TS]

  i'm actually marched in the guy the Cape [TS]

  whose lifting up the car [TS]

  although again ten bucks to you for for [TS]

  creative thinking I'm just not [TS]

  interested in that I think you've just [TS]

  been to play marbles with that because [TS]

  that was the whole point tomorrow yeah [TS]

  wow look at that whereas the whole point [TS]

  to kingdom come was hey you know the [TS]

  approximately 1 million DC characters we [TS]

  have what if they'll fight each other to [TS]

  take Superman waiting to tell them the [TS]

  Rockets people i don't understand any of [TS]

  your DC continuity it it scares me and [TS]

  frightens me and I run away and I like [TS]

  kingdom come [TS]

  so i guess i was looking at the top [TS]

  level what was it limits to what if we [TS]

  just missed Allah gize at all and make [TS]

  it about the Trinity basically and we [TS]

  and and it's got an ending look [TS]

  Kingdom Come Dine story but at the same [TS]

  time kingdom come also has you can print [TS]

  out like somewhere close to 40 pages of [TS]

  annotations I've seen that it's but i [TS]

  think i had them in a binder at one [TS]

  point and the locket and and my thing is [TS]

  a lot of people took away from Kingdom [TS]

  Come was not hey this is a great start [TS]

  but rather people only love it when they [TS]

  know the in Jets that's what happened to [TS]

  the newsboy Legion look in the back of [TS]

  the bar you see they see that guy with [TS]

  the weird bowtie that's actually when [TS]

  they had salmon with the heads and Jana [TS]

  as the waiters in the scene in the dive [TS]

  bar for superheroes are supposed to be [TS]

  alright if the Wonder Twins it's I like [TS]

  it when stories can work on several [TS]

  levels like if you had no idea who any [TS]

  of those characters are you can still [TS]

  read it and there's a great story i did [TS]

  and if you do know then there's all [TS]

  these in jokes and you any problem is [TS]

  when it becomes about the conduit had [TS]

  not already tells is when you're good at [TS]

  the storytelling you can do anything [TS]

  when you're not very good at the [TS]

  storytelling your life but look at me i [TS]

  have a grasp of continuity cough which [TS]

  brings us back around to one of the [TS]

  original questions which is is this a [TS]

  stunt is it you know is it a good idea [TS]

  is gonna work and I sounds like what [TS]

  we're saying is look it's gonna stand or [TS]

  fall based on the stories they tell ya [TS]

  but I keep coming back to the idea that [TS]

  it is really a Tetris it is if you [TS]

  dropped they dropped this one block this [TS]

  awful lot of problems one problem 11 [TS]

  problem being is that they're facing a [TS]

  lot of problems with intellectual [TS]

  property remember that they lost the [TS]

  million ways to appeal to retain all the [TS]

  right Superman in which essentially the [TS]

  right Superman are now split everything [TS]

  that siegel and shuster brought to DC [TS]

  that they had already created belongs to [TS]

  the estate everything that that DC [TS]

  Comics added later on which is ninety [TS]

  percent of the of the game belongs to [TS]

  them realize that this is an opportunity [TS]

  for them to go through every every [TS]

  character they have that's more than 40 [TS]

  50 years old and say let's make sure [TS]

  that in this universe new universe our [TS]

  ownership of these characters is [TS]

  airtight and so that you can better [TS]

  believe that that the that anything that [TS]

  is that's in the new Superman is not [TS]

  going to have any relationship to the [TS]

  proposal that was brought to them all [TS]

  those years well understanding is an [TS]

  additive that they own the rights to [TS]

  this simplistic that the siegel and [TS]

  shuster states over on the rights to [TS]

  some sort of simplistic Superman that [TS]

  was in the first issue of Superman who [TS]

  couldn't fly and so they could to did do [TS]

  a Superman but it would be that costume [TS]

  and that [TS]

  committed set because then DC owns the [TS]

  guy who can fly and the different [TS]

  k designs of the different suits and all [TS]

  that but it is an interesting point i [TS]

  would not I would not put it past them [TS]

  that they've got you know a team of [TS]

  lawyers said here's what we're gonna do [TS]

  with this reboot but I was talking about [TS]

  talk to someone last yesterday at my [TS]

  local comic shop around is it looking in [TS]

  there wasn't anyone around you but my [TS]

  far one is still my local 121 this [TS]

  nearby that geographically nearby it is [TS]

  dead to me it isn't it is an arson fire [TS]

  no serious i do i do still drive like [TS]

  all the way to that store twice a month [TS]

  because that's the place at restaurant [TS]

  by and what that person say well they [TS]

  they actually had some the details of [TS]

  the case where they're saying that [TS]

  whatever DC has to do to make sure that [TS]

  they're not infringing on on the [TS]

  seagulls of the the state's copyrights [TS]

  they have to do it sometime in the next [TS]

  year so his idea was that this gave them [TS]

  and I this will give DC and I an [TS]

  opportunity to have to put new coke on [TS]

  the market for six or seven or eight [TS]

  months see if that takes off and if that [TS]

  and if they when they look at where they [TS]

  are in six months they decide that you [TS]

  know what everybody has accepted this [TS]

  new version of superman we don't have to [TS]

  strike any sort of new agreement with [TS]

  with the estate we can simply say take [TS]

  your take the five words that that that [TS]

  you're showing us over and keep them [TS]

  because we built a brand new Superman [TS]

  that doesn't get we're not gonna pay you [TS]

  a dollar for anything except that [TS]

  argument breaks down when you look at [TS]

  the entire backlog which is still on [TS]

  sale like the all of the Superman trade [TS]

  paperbacks and all of the program change [TS]

  thing so i don't really buy it's [TS]

  motivating factor of the University care [TS]

  that it's I don't think they're suing [TS]

  for percentage of a percentage of the [TS]

  other the trade paperback publishing [TS]

  remember that most of the stuff that's [TS]

  already in print is now pulp there's [TS]

  very little that's still in print [TS]

  they mostly care about what happens when [TS]

  someone when someone wants to give a [TS]

  million dollars for Superman Slurpee [TS]

  machine do they have to now give a [TS]

  cutback as you have to give a half a [TS]

  point or two points or whatever money [TS]

  money to make on it to the state [TS]

  well how about a Superman movie that [TS]

  hopefully will make two three four five [TS]

  thousand dollars do they have to give a [TS]

  couple points of these facts have the [TS]

  lex luthor lemon [TS]

  slurping will be tasty so last thing [TS]

  before we go is to gauge I'm just gonna [TS]

  go around the room here and gauge your [TS]

  level of optimism or pessimism about how [TS]

  this will come off [TS]

  Lisa I'm utterly neutral utterly neutral [TS]

  that's a Dungeons and Dragons alignment [TS]

  I hadn't heard before [TS]

  no it's in the middle but it's neither [TS]

  it's night neither good nor evil it is [TS]

  utterly neutral [TS]

  yeah so are you gonna are you gonna buy [TS]

  stuff are you going to try it out or you [TS]

  just got talent i'm a wander into the [TS]

  store and see what a couple issues [TS]

  issues one look like but at this point I [TS]

  don't buy single issue so I'm gonna wait [TS]

  and see [TS]

  I'm gonna wait and see wait for the buzz [TS]

  about one of the good ones that you [TS]

  should pick up in a trade [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna i'm curious if you have [TS]

  this background thing shakes out just [TS]

  because I was very fond of the Oracle [TS]

  character and Barbara Gordon and I want [TS]

  to see how Gail Simone what she keeps [TS]

  from from that character and and what [TS]

  she does to change it and i also want to [TS]

  see how this whole expanded that family [TS]

  thing works out because my understanding [TS]

  from the titles have come out so far is [TS]

  we're going to have both of Batgirl and [TS]

  that woman and a black batman really [TS]

  that's good you know that's my dream [TS]

  moving right i mean it's it's his name [TS]

  is batwing [TS]

  oh and he's black maybe the black batman [TS]

  movie will finally come to pass [TS]

  Don she was not too little Don Cheadle [TS]

  still available yes that's a big black [TS]

  batman or batwing IC was mocking all the [TS]

  interns only owns a strong consistent [TS]

  content there is no game that is better [TS]

  than casting imaginary cat comic book [TS]

  movies based on existing actors Jason [TS]

  what do you think optimistic pessimistic [TS]

  going to try it out i'm optimistic I you [TS]

  know there's enough there that's got my [TS]

  interest which is the whole what they're [TS]

  going for the the fact they're bringing [TS]

  in the wild storm characters into the DC [TS]

  and there's like a new storm watch title [TS]

  but Martian Manhunter is a character on [TS]

  storm watch see i really look forward to [TS]

  seeing how he's going to work with that [TS]

  crew because they know it's just [TS]

  and.and for me and they're bringing all [TS]

  the vertical characters into the DC [TS]

  universe which no John Constantine shade [TS]

  the changing man or doing like a dark [TS]

  justice league right there in the dark [TS]

  Justice League and for since vertigo had [TS]

  been outside the DC Universe for so long [TS]

  and they told all those kind of stories [TS]

  it's time to tell the stories now John [TS]

  Constantine facing off with Superman you [TS]

  know why not we haven't had those [TS]

  stories in a couple of decades [TS]

  let's tell them to give it a go yeah [TS]

  Andy what do you think [TS]

  oddly enough I don't think that might [TS]

  have but you can be changed at all [TS]

  because i find that often i I'm rarely [TS]

  following specific characters i'm [TS]

  usually following specific creators Gail [TS]

  Simone whose name isn't popping up the [TS]

  tenth time during this conversation is [TS]

  on that list of her name is on it i'm [TS]

  buying it so I so I'm definitely buying [TS]

  the new bad girl [TS]

  maybe I like it maybe I won't it's a [TS]

  little bit off-putting only because if i [TS]

  were to make a list of all the comics [TS]

  that I by month and month out there [TS]

  certainly maybe 45 DC comics on that [TS]

  list and I just know that when they do [TS]

  this reboot it moves off of the [TS]

  automatic by list and now moves into the [TS]

  well let's pick up and let's pick up an [TS]

  issue off the stand and leave through it [TS]

  if I like it as usual what's going to [TS]

  drive me to a specific book isn't going [TS]

  to be allegiance to a character or even [TS]

  allegiance to a publisher is going to be [TS]

  that I was online and so and enough [TS]

  people have talked up this storyline [TS]

  that I want to check it out man willing [TS]

  to gamble 299 were enough people whose [TS]

  tastes and opinions you trust because [TS]

  they haven't steered you wrong [TS]

  yup pretty much so what I'll say is that [TS]

  as somebody who has bought a very few DC [TS]

  Comics over the years i'm intrigued by [TS]

  it i like some of the DC characters I've [TS]

  always felt totally crushed by the [TS]

  continuity because I don't know it and I [TS]

  don't really want to invest the time to [TS]

  do it but I'm buying a lot of stuff [TS]

  digitally so for me the digital day and [TS]

  a thing and the fact that they're [TS]

  rebooting with that continuity will [TS]

  probably get me to try some stuff and [TS]

  especially about characters that you [TS]

  intrigue me or who have always [TS]

  interested me but I didn't want to get [TS]

  into the crushing backstory so you know [TS]

  maybe for somebody like me [TS]

  it'll be a good thing for them I'm i [TS]

  don't know how many people there are [TS]

  like me but yeah I think it's worth a [TS]

  shot [TS]

  so for me I'm kind of interested in it [TS]

  so anyway I guess we'll have to [TS]

  reconvene at some point and see how it [TS]

  all [TS]

  check out and we'll do one of those out [TS]

  what went wrong blood is after after we [TS]

  see exactly what went wrong but until [TS]

  then [TS]

  I want to thank this this particular [TS]

  edition and formation of the comic book [TS]

  club [TS]

  jason reitman thank you for being here [TS]

  thanks for having me Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

  lovely as always thank you always apply [TS]

  there and annika thank you so much for [TS]

  joining us I hope we can have you back [TS]

  on this podcast at another day to talk [TS]

  about other stuff too [TS]

  I knew that by not dropping the f-bomb [TS]

  even once there's a chance you invited [TS]

  back glad that period so until next time [TS]

  on the incomparable podcast I'm Jason [TS]

  smell that signing off thanks for [TS]

  listening [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  when you drop the f-bomb we just fire [TS]

  off the spoiler horn to cover it up and [TS]

  nobody knows the difference today we [TS]

  should tell me before him [TS]

  well this is easier for me to edit [TS]

  because when i talk about what they did [TS]

  a spider-man and one more day I gotta [TS]

  tell you I can finally keep control of [TS]

  my language [TS]

  yeah meet party couple everybody until [TS]

  I'm not drunk is later on the East Coast [TS]

  nice way to treat a guest Jason he's not [TS]

  every time the other jason that the [TS]

  other thank you [TS]

  we gotta keep it straight I like the [TS]

  other jason the other chase was 99 oh [TS]

  right the good it was good Jason haha [TS]