The Incomparable

43: Mulder and Pacey in "The F-Files"

 

  the incomparable part test number for [TS]

  every jun 2011 [TS]

  we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

  the TV season or at least the [TS]

  traditional network TV season has [TS]

  wrapped up and as a result we want to [TS]

  check in on one of our favorite shows [TS]

  and well maybe it's not our favorite [TS]

  show one of the shows that is available [TS]

  let's put that judges it is the most [TS]

  politically correct podcast many shows [TS]

  are available this is what i am talking [TS]

  about Fox television's sci-fi series [TS]

  fringe and joining me today I'm Jason [TS]

  smell your host joining me today to [TS]

  discuss fringe rd and more in hi Dan [TS]

  hello Jason and John siracusa hi John [TS]

  idealism John is in an alternate [TS]

  universe just so you know this is this [TS]

  is the alternate John we're all in an [TS]

  alternate universe [TS]

  damn he is actually he's actually [TS]

  hypocritical interesting strange you [TS]

  didn't see that coming but they he he [TS]

  has a serious lack of criticism [TS]

  yeah he just loves everything wow that's [TS]

  come about real genius haha sorry that [TS]

  was my will do not funny [TS]

  well you think it was funny and I'll [TS]

  universe it was funny [TS]

  I'm only here to amuse myself and as [TS]

  such doing great job done excellent work [TS]

  so so fringe we we talked about it in [TS]

  fact where you guys on that podcast [TS]

  where we talked about sci-fi TV in the [TS]

  fall i believe i was just podcast along [TS]

  now that I don't even remember the too [TS]

  many episodes so so fringe I thought it [TS]

  has been a show that is generally gotten [TS]

  better over time as they've gotten to [TS]

  evolve their story and this season we [TS]

  really got to see I think they're kind [TS]

  of full-blown concept of the two [TS]

  parallel universes and all the different [TS]

  all the different ramifications of that [TS]

  and you know what it but it's [TS]

  interesting to look back on it from from [TS]

  when where we started this season this [TS]

  season started with this idea that [TS]

  Olivia had been swapped with her [TS]

  duplicate and [TS]

  she had been like locked up in a in a in [TS]

  a Cell in the Ultimate Universe and the [TS]

  duplicate Olivia was in place but we [TS]

  ended up getting was sort of alternating [TS]

  storylines for a while where we were in [TS]

  one universe and we're in the other [TS]

  universe and you know I i really liked [TS]

  it i thought that when I really well and [TS]

  was great use of the cast being able to [TS]

  be two different characters but it's [TS]

  still being one show i really enjoyed it [TS]

  and it's funny because one around the [TS]

  time the season started I watching an [TS]

  interview with former foes the Catholic [TS]

  was just the cast or a few of the the [TS]

  main members and they kept stressing [TS]

  this idea that like their goal was to [TS]

  make you care about those alternate [TS]

  versions of the characters like and not [TS]

  just having begin makes likely evil Kirk [TS]

  right like on Star Trek but to actually [TS]

  have you sort of sympathize with those [TS]

  alternate characters and they said you [TS]

  know if we've done that then our job is [TS]

  really is really done and I think they [TS]

  actually managed to pull it off like you [TS]

  know they were in almost I mean there [TS]

  are few almost entire episodes in which [TS]

  we don't see our universe right and i [TS]

  still felt really engaged in like [TS]

  interested in what was going on I really [TS]

  came to like a lot of the characters in [TS]

  the alternate universe it gave us a [TS]

  chance to like play around with some [TS]

  characters who I felt like got kinda [TS]

  short shrift in our universe like [TS]

  Charlie for example rather they killed [TS]

  off and right and so we get the [TS]

  alternate version and he's kinda you [TS]

  know I think he's there's something [TS]

  about a lot of the characters in the [TS]

  alternate universe that are almost more [TS]

  I mean it's more of a science fiction [TS]

  using the universe and some rice so and [TS]

  the characters are I think a little more [TS]

  allowed to Duke like slightly crazier [TS]

  stuff for be a little more off the wall [TS]

  I mean like the the alternate Olivia and [TS]

  they and they say point this out i think [TS]

  which I which I found interesting [TS]

  because a lot of people can sort of [TS]

  characterize Anna tours you know [TS]

  performance and effort season and tu as [TS]

  des very you know wooden reserved and I [TS]

  think you know seeing her play the [TS]

  alternate Livia that we've realized that [TS]

  like a lot of that's the character right [TS]

  and not necessarily heard she's capable [TS]

  of playing a character who's a little [TS]

  more you know outgoing and I [TS]

  it has a little more you know spark to [TS]

  her but that's just they're different [TS]

  they're different people [TS]

  I think your game everybody all the [TS]

  actors so really nice material and that [TS]

  they get to differentiate themselves a [TS]

  little bit but you're right i think that [TS]

  anna torv showed that the most because [TS]

  Olivia such a button-down character [TS]

  she's just locked in she's your you know [TS]

  tough FBI agent you know very similar [TS]

  personality and so you know she got to [TS]

  do a lot of other kind of wacky stuff [TS]

  that is is beyond what she was asked to [TS]

  do before and I think she did show a lot [TS]

  more range than then I had given her [TS]

  credit for the one that surprised me the [TS]

  most was out Walter because I mean [TS]

  obviously it's an actor playing a [TS]

  character in the wacky Walter and then [TS]

  the main universe but my lord of the [TS]

  rings he's he's nuts to write so yeah [TS]

  but a different kind of nuts but the [TS]

  wall turn it like it looks like almost [TS]

  like they use cg to change his face [TS]

  because his whole life he stands up [TS]

  straight and he's he's much more grim [TS]

  and his face looks less rumbly in the [TS]

  comas hair and he just looks so [TS]

  different acts so different and just [TS]

  totally convincing I i'll actually like [TS]

  Walternate better than Walter yeah [TS]

  actually so I hardcore you know I [TS]

  thought in the season finale I had a I [TS]

  had a feeling that they were gonna kill [TS]

  Walter and leave us with Walter net [TS]

  which would have been sort of sad and [TS]

  yet would have been fascinating because [TS]

  you still have the same actor and and [TS]

  they're both great characters [TS]

  yeah Walter 'not such a hundred 90 [TS]

  degree shift for multi guess the idea [TS]

  and the show is the Walter was so he [TS]

  actually removed parts of his brain [TS]

  because he was getting all messed up [TS]

  yeah he's just he's messed up and sort [TS]

  of probably messed up in somewhere i [TS]

  love his i love I would be sad to see [TS]

  Walter go I felt like because for no [TS]

  other reason than those you know those [TS]

  first two seasons don't work you know [TS]

  like he is the most interesting part of [TS]

  the show several seasons him in the cow [TS]

  right and at first but the first two [TS]

  seasons [TS]

  I felt like they burned through a lot of [TS]

  their character their character set up [TS]

  so they had done like so you have the [TS]

  relationship thing between Pacey and and [TS]

  whatsherface are you calling tasted too [TS]

  i got that everyone does that case yeah [TS]

  it's called his paces are shadowed paid [TS]

  that Peter in the Ultimate Universe died [TS]

  but our universe but then they went to [TS]

  the ultimate universal brought back pace [TS]

  PCB and you have a Walther with his [TS]

  guilt over his son and he's in the [TS]

  insane asylum like they had a bunch of [TS]

  setup of like what here the tensions [TS]

  between the characters and sort of like [TS]

  once Peter gets together you know it's [TS]

  kind of like once Mulder and Scully get [TS]

  together that's kind of you know what do [TS]

  you do now you likely break them up and [TS]

  then put it back together you gotta send [TS]

  the alternate whatever Walter like we [TS]

  found that his brain was messed up we [TS]

  you know his son pretty much forgave him [TS]

  and that tension from the first season [TS]

  is gone he settled into his work you [TS]

  know like all those things are starting [TS]

  to resolve themselves and you got to get [TS]

  into like secondary and tertiary [TS]

  conflicts where you either re-involved [TS]

  the original conflict or try to get up [TS]

  some new one the alternate universe [TS]

  gives you a whole new set of conflicts [TS]

  with these characters have different [TS]

  relationships you know they're not in [TS]

  the same relationships and there's [TS]

  different tensions between people is [TS]

  traditionally noticed that the romance [TS]

  things where person a is interested in [TS]

  person be but are they going to get [TS]

  together as a couple more of those in [TS]

  the alternate universe and there's you [TS]

  know is this character irredeemably evil [TS]

  vs is he gonna you know have feelings [TS]

  for his son and stuff like that so in [TS]

  season 2 they start to introduce those [TS]

  in season three was like well we're [TS]

  getting kind of tired of the main [TS]

  universe because we've burned through [TS]

  all of our stock there so let's do a [TS]

  whole bunch of stuff in the alternate [TS]

  universe where everything can be like [TS]

  fresh and new again we're like we can [TS]

  look at their the same actors and [TS]

  they're really the same you know people [TS]

  supposedly but its all new situations [TS]

  and we can expect different things out [TS]

  of them now for the for the next season [TS]

  i wonder they're going to make a third [TS]

  universe like it's just gonna be you [TS]

  know you sob the glimpse at a third [TS]

  universe right well it's it's it's well [TS]

  so there's a couple things going on I i [TS]

  do want to i do want to get there [TS]

  because I have an idea about what's [TS]

  going to happen in the next season two [TS]

  but to talk about that the the two sets [TS]

  for a little bit longer [TS]

  you know you're right I agree completely [TS]

  i think not only did they allow us to [TS]

  see these alternate versions and Dan you [TS]

  know it's so true these are the like [TS]

  x-men versions the fringe division to [TS]

  the establishment they have great a big [TS]

  cool headquarters in a truck that they [TS]

  drive around in and they don't even like [TS]

  they've been doing all this stuff a lot [TS]

  longer right because I must be no don't [TS]

  remember [TS]

  right so the amber the vortexes and the [TS]

  and all those like you know the the [TS]

  cracks in the university they have to [TS]

  deal with living in his eyes I universe [TS]

  basically they're like they're like [TS]

  consumers ahead of ya [TS]

  yeah it's simply state wait there's some [TS]

  really interesting stuff because by [TS]

  putting our Olivia there and then having [TS]

  to gradually figure out who she is which [TS]

  is an interesting choice of much it [TS]

  seems kind of weird and strange to me in [TS]

  a little bit but it did allow her to be [TS]

  our eyes and and the you know in [TS]

  addition to the cute things like the DC [TS]

  Comics covers that are different in the [TS]

  fact that the Dodgers still play in [TS]

  brooklyn and that then the West the west [TS]

  wing is still on [TS]

  yeah that was my favorite will throw [TS]

  away the World Trade Center is still [TS]

  standing [TS]

  all of these things it is because of [TS]

  this all the four texts and all that [TS]

  happened because of our what our Walter [TS]

  did it is a police state everybody has [TS]

  their show me's and and you basically [TS]

  everybody is watched and everything is [TS]

  locked down which is a engineering do we [TS]

  ever even here reference to a president [TS]

  or is it really seemed like I think they [TS]

  say that your mom is the president at [TS]

  one point that's right they do it [TS]

  somewhat but the second it seems very [TS]

  much like Walternate the secretary of [TS]

  defense is pretty much in charge of [TS]

  everything right [TS]

  maybe he's making universe destroying [TS]

  decisions unilaterally isn't so that's [TS]

  because it allowed to you know control [TS]

  the army but he's allowed to annihilate [TS]

  the universe without consulting anyone [TS]

  else [TS]

  well you know any girls watch jordan [TS]

  yeah you know you have a pretty sure I i [TS]

  wanna i want to give props to a [TS]

  relatively a character who I feel like [TS]

  was introduced as a relatively minor [TS]

  character and grew to be one of my [TS]

  favorite characters and that's Lincoln [TS]

  Lincoln i love is what I'm a big fan I [TS]

  like Seth Gabel he was previously on a [TS]

  show called The Dirty Sexy Money that [TS]

  did not last very long in which he [TS]

  played kind of a spoiled rich brat [TS]

  friend was so nice to see ya it's so [TS]

  nice to see him play another part he was [TS]

  always very likeable on that show and I [TS]

  think they've given him something you [TS]

  know they turned into like a badass in [TS]

  the show and so he he first appears one [TS]

  at the end of season two [TS]

  he gets three years on earth that was my [TS]

  favorite things is that they don't they [TS]

  don't explain it there's no exposition [TS]

  he just comes on screen and he's all [TS]

  messed up now know that Cano he gets he [TS]

  gets burned in the season 2 finale by [TS]

  one of the other one special power side [TS]

  yeah yeah when they go out here they [TS]

  don't explain like how is he still [TS]

  walking isn't even in extreme pain is [TS]

  the right guy like there's no there [TS]

  there magical alternate oversight was [TS]

  their way of expressing that the rules [TS]

  are different in this university is not [TS]

  a big deal that this happened to him [TS]

  that Helen right exactly and that you [TS]

  don't people just accept it really [TS]

  thought he was dead but now well and and [TS]

  I mean I like that you know they [TS]

  developed his character i think is the [TS]

  season went along [TS]

  I've heard that I believe he's coming on [TS]

  as a as a regular house in the next [TS]

  season which I'm super-excited about and [TS]

  i love that they then had the playback [TS]

  where we see his version in our universe [TS]

  who's this like nerdy dude with glasses [TS]

  use like a field agent at all which was [TS]

  just it was just such a nice little [TS]

  totally had gotten so used to it at the [TS]

  end of the episode though he says hey I [TS]

  like you guys maybe we could work [TS]

  together in the future [TS]

  yeah I was like sweet dreams wanna be [TS]

  great well you got the alternate [TS]

  asteroid who's like basically you know [TS]

  she's not messing up just like yeah she [TS]

  also she seems like she has some severe [TS]

  personality as a mentat speaking of [TS]

  bread doing [TS]

  yeah it's um no I i really love the fact [TS]

  that the set the alternate universe is [TS]

  different and yet the characters [TS]

  recognizable that you can throw Charlie [TS]

  in there you know there's no Peter [TS]

  obviously but everybody's got your [TS]

  license to kill [TS]

  well no more cuz Broyles alternate [TS]

  Broyles dead right I thought more people [TS]

  would be killed actually but that will [TS]

  death of alternate Broyles which was I [TS]

  think it may be the high point of the [TS]

  whole season is that episode where the [TS]

  the pho olivia is found out and Royals [TS]

  is being convinced by alternate Broyles [TS]

  has been convinced by our Olivia that he [TS]

  needs that that Walter is dangerous and [TS]

  needs to let her go and the you know in [TS]

  the end you know our Broyles finds his [TS]

  ya dead body [TS]

  yeah of yourself it seems to have [TS]

  bounced back from that pretty well I get [TS]

  anybody else has like the same scenes in [TS]

  every episode [TS]

  like damn attitude but they didn't [TS]

  didn't give him room to like we don't [TS]

  like we're not inside Broyles head to [TS]

  see how this is affecting and they gave [TS]

  maybe 12 scenes where he's supposed to [TS]

  look concerned about the fact that we [TS]

  just saw his own body parts called [TS]

  littered all over the inside of that and [TS]

  it makes me sad because Lance if you [TS]

  anyway introduce you watch the wire [TS]

  Lance Reddick is a is a fantastic actor [TS]

  and really I feel like is is under you [TS]

  he's been one of my my disappointments [TS]

  in the show and I just feel that he's [TS]

  underutilized and they could be like [TS]

  Skinner like Skinner was underutilized [TS]

  the x-files for a long time and hold [TS]

  still is decided you know what let's [TS]

  make Skinner do crazy stuff and then you [TS]

  know he's gonna be able in the future is [TS]

  he's a senator with a glass eye so easy [TS]

  he's the authority you know he's the [TS]

  police captain basically right and it's [TS]

  not it's a kind of a thankless part of [TS]

  speaking of the wire bubbles is in [TS]

  several episodes to as the all parallel [TS]

  universe taxi driver who if they did [TS]

  find is that but it's just a little [TS]

  guest thing yeah I know but again you [TS]

  you see these guys from the wire and you [TS]

  like now [TS]

  alright I just I just have to point out [TS]

  Larry's i just got a direct message from [TS]

  a friend of mine guy who I suggested to [TS]

  watch fringe and who just apropos of [TS]

  nothing just have a direct message about [TS]

  watching fringe right now and watching [TS]

  anna torv do a leonard nimoy impression [TS]

  another and i was about the best moment [TS]

  yeah I had his brief moment of how did [TS]

  he know we're recording this right now [TS]

  what was that not i mean the whole any [TS]

  more thing was very strange they kill [TS]

  them off and I thought that was [TS]

  perfectly good in the finale last year [TS]

  and yet they decided they wanted to go [TS]

  back to it and so we end up with two [TS]

  episodes where Anna Torv does a leonard [TS]

  nimoy impression and then we get a [TS]

  really kind of fun and strange episode [TS]

  that's half animated where his voice and [TS]

  their animated well it was worse than [TS]

  those uh those Taiwanese things or [TS]

  whatever they call it goes it's that [TS]

  it's the waking life technologies and [TS]

  it's a it's a technique that I it's not [TS]

  my favorite either but it is a style [TS]

  kind of choice to do that sorry [TS]

  execution-style no no but I i actually [TS]

  think that my kind of like I kind of [TS]

  enjoyed I kind of enjoyed her her [TS]

  leonard nimoy picture i was in which she [TS]

  was kinda funny but then you thought [TS]

  that they were gonna take it seriously [TS]

  and you can't to wait i was going yeah I [TS]

  don't know I was ok with it didn't [TS]

  bother me as much [TS]

  I mean next season no I could yeah it [TS]

  will always remember when Max and I [TS]

  couldn't remember actually from the end [TS]

  of last season Howe heat he was in the [TS]

  alternate universe and he's there he [TS]

  basically like holds people often in [TS]

  order to give them time to get back [TS]

  right yeah man like button if there's an [TS]

  explosion and ok so we don't see him die [TS]

  we just what he's losing the heart of [TS]

  the explosion and that's right confusion [TS]

  is when the Olivia's get switched I [TS]

  think it's right all right so in the end [TS]

  we have we have this final episode that [TS]

  said in the future which is kind of [TS]

  funny that they that they have this uh [TS]

  almost like a season finale in the [TS]

  penultimate episode where you know he [TS]

  gets into the Machine and there's a [TS]

  sudden he's in the future but that [TS]

  wasn't the last episode there was a [TS]

  whole last episode that set in this [TS]

  possible future [TS]

  I don't know wait what's interesting [TS]

  choice [TS]

  well yeah and I mean I think what would [TS]

  amuse me about it was that they [TS]

  explained a lot of things that were kind [TS]

  of lingering questions right like where [TS]

  the machine came from right which I have [TS]

  a big problem with because they were [TS]

  talking there was this ridiculous thread [TS]

  about the first people and back before [TS]

  there were humans there was a machine [TS]

  and I thought I thought well that's [TS]

  ridiculous that couldn't be possible and [TS]

  I i like to think that that was just set [TS]

  up for the fact that no no that's our [TS]

  characters going back in time with this [TS]

  it's ok it's a red herring right you [TS]

  know what they did if you're lucky if [TS]

  you want lost people did is they realize [TS]

  what we have repented a vague backstory [TS]

  that could be this big gargantuan think [TS]

  we better nip this in the bud because we [TS]

  don't you know if you kept dragging it [TS]

  out like were the first people who are [TS]

  the first people like satisfying whereas [TS]

  it now you just go snip nope actually [TS]

  was Walter you know and then you don't [TS]

  have to worry about this big backstory [TS]

  of like early settlers on earth aliens [TS]

  and you know whatever crazy thing you're [TS]

  gonna come up with better to snippet of [TS]

  course you still have the Watchers the [TS]

  observers whatever right [TS]

  floating that they're still they have so [TS]

  much stuff that they can still go back [TS]

  but I want to make I want to make a [TS]

  reference because I don't John did you [TS]

  ever read the city in the city [TS]

  I tried to read it indeed not the guy I [TS]

  three-quarters time I want to listen to [TS]

  the podcast grounded for me [TS]

  alright well what I think fascinating [TS]

  about is I feel like I feel like the [TS]

  issue it's very similar they are [TS]

  essentially they seem like breach a [TS]

  little bit right and in this idea of [TS]

  these two parallel universes which in [TS]

  the finale at least in that particular [TS]

  point overlap i don't know i did struck [TS]

  a chord in me sort of a sympathetic [TS]

  chord in me for those those two that's [TS]

  funny story I actually I thought of the [TS]

  city in the city and we're talking about [TS]

  discussed on the previous podcast China [TS]

  Mieville novel award-winning novel the [TS]

  city university I actually thought that [TS]

  the end result of the final episode of [TS]

  this season sets up almost that kind of [TS]

  scenario except across universes where [TS]

  in the city and the city the two cities [TS]

  overlaid and there's the one building [TS]

  that they can go in to transfer from one [TS]

  to the other and write the two universes [TS]

  are overlaid in this scenario and [TS]

  Liberty Island basically the Statue of [TS]

  Liberty is the one place where you can [TS]

  connect from one universe to the other [TS]

  so it presumably that's the the way that [TS]

  they take this story next season is that [TS]

  is that now is just an association [TS]

  between right but people can go in and [TS]

  out is the point right to their other [TS]

  universes so presumably you could have [TS]

  any number of kind of mixtures of people [TS]

  going to one universe or another [TS]

  universe because they're now the door is [TS]

  open and anybody can step through [TS]

  whereas before it was at supposedly kind [TS]

  of but not really i need to transfer [TS]

  found that to the other [TS]

  I you know I have to admit from a [TS]

  dramatic standpoint I I loved that [TS]

  development just because I didn't see it [TS]

  coming and when I I figured it out a [TS]

  split second you know like before they [TS]

  explained it and I just started cracking [TS]

  up because I just thought like it [TS]

  because they got that scene where [TS]

  they're all like staring at each other [TS]

  across the room and the way they cut it [TS]

  i just like they did a great job because [TS]

  I slowly you know they slowly sort of [TS]

  sinks in like what just happened and [TS]

  you're like oh my god this is going to [TS]

  be you know this is going to change a [TS]

  lot of things I was concerned with you [TS]

  really how much about it will change [TS]

  because you don't know if they're gonna [TS]

  stick with it [TS]

  this show is shown anything is that [TS]

  whatever you think they're doing from [TS]

  episode to episode the next episode they [TS]

  can completely change their mind change [TS]

  directly i don't think they could have I [TS]

  don't think they can keep those two sets [TS]

  of characters apart any further frankly [TS]

  just because of the way that the [TS]

  storylines were developing yeah i mean [TS]

  they already have already killed one [TS]

  whole set of them off but then said no [TS]

  no rewind actually what we're doing here [TS]

  is we're teaching the AC whose [TS]

  envisioning this the lesson that will [TS]

  prevent this for you know I mean they [TS]

  just go in so many different directions [TS]

  it with any time travel type thing right [TS]

  at any point any set of characters can [TS]

  be alive or dead that entire universe [TS]

  was gone you know and and did a whole [TS]

  show with that our universe gone but by [TS]

  the end of that should've said no just [TS]

  kidding it's actually to teach basic [TS]

  lesson I go back home but it would solve [TS]

  the over obvious was wasn't it though [TS]

  that they weren't they were going to set [TS]

  the rest of the show in the future there [TS]

  was obviously yeah i know you never know [TS]

  what I want to have another woman killed [TS]

  the man characters but yes I think I'm [TS]

  loop episode except from the other side [TS]

  of it where you know they're gonna [TS]

  figure out that they need to change [TS]

  history and then they do I mean it was [TS]

  sort of watching it slow and around so i [TS]

  would say yes but in this show like for [TS]

  example i saw i saw that they were gonna [TS]

  do this overlap thing they would have to [TS]

  meet and figure out how to resolve the [TS]

  differences because that's the only that [TS]

  it's clearly the way they were going but [TS]

  then Pacey disappears I didn't see that [TS]

  coming [TS]

  no that was yeah I was a shocker the [TS]

  idea that they've somehow change time [TS]

  and some not longer certainly not only [TS]

  made him disappear and never you know [TS]

  like not be people are going nowhere to [TS]

  go [TS]

  everyone just forgot he existed yeah now [TS]

  that was a challenge me a little bit [TS]

  because i don't personally i don't know [TS]

  whether the actors leaving the show [TS]

  because and then the practical sense [TS]

  that's what you need to know to know [TS]

  where they're going to do with the [TS]

  actors i understand this is the way you [TS]

  get them off the show he's my [TS]

  understanding show you know if he's not [TS]

  leaving the show what I have to do what [TS]

  I'm not looking forward to his next [TS]

  season [TS]

  like I like the idea of no one remembers [TS]

  that existed but he's not leaving the [TS]

  show we gotta deal with the whole season [TS]

  of people going Pacey that name it means [TS]

  something to me I remember remember [TS]

  create loved him once and look if he [TS]

  didn't exist he didn't exist right but [TS]

  then they can't hold that line because [TS]

  then you know where will he be he won't [TS]

  be on the show anymore [TS]

  well I assume the emotional touchy-feely [TS]

  like well he didn't exist but the oven [TS]

  doors and they still remember and that [TS]

  BS bothers me [TS]

  Mike Bryant my assumption you know just [TS]

  based on my own feeling is that he's [TS]

  going to become an observer basically or [TS]

  somehow and doctors head with the [TS]

  observers you guys got shaved huh [TS]

  I is a pepper I'm with John in the sense [TS]

  that I sort of dread the them stretching [TS]

  that story out because quite frankly I [TS]

  mean if they're not getting rid of them [TS]

  and they're not [TS]

  I you know it's a it's a fun plot twist [TS]

  but if we spend eight episodes of people [TS]

  gradually realizing that he actually did [TS]

  exist that that sounds like death to me [TS]

  I'd much rather than Brazil likely i [TS]

  like the idea that he didn't ever exist [TS]

  I that's that's good sci-fi to me that [TS]

  he just blink and he's gone and he never [TS]

  existed and you don't have like you [TS]

  don't have these hints of like I seem to [TS]

  remember no you don't remember because [TS]

  he never use it that's the whole point [TS]

  like that's that's committing to you [TS]

  know but it doesn't make sense and I [TS]

  think that's probably where they're [TS]

  gonna go with it is that it doesn't [TS]

  really make sense because the whole [TS]

  reason that the two universes and the [TS]

  one hand and the one has problems is [TS]

  because of the of Walter coming over [TS]

  across and saving his life and that they [TS]

  couldn't let me have any of the numbers [TS]

  if the observers like I like you could [TS]

  you don't know where the observers [TS]

  coming into this so you could make sense [TS]

  of it by saying well he went back to get [TS]

  a son but the observers knew that [TS]

  clearly couldn't happen but one of them [TS]

  had a soft spot so make him think he was [TS]

  bringing him back and really peter is a [TS]

  manufacturer the Peter they brought back [TS]

  as a manufactured entity from the [TS]

  observers to try to stitch up the [TS]

  timelines and then I had exist you know [TS]

  when he died and he died in both [TS]

  universes but before they took him away [TS]

  in fact they got so thorough they just [TS]

  killed joshua jackson like you know what [TS]

  this is really method acting reinstall [TS]

  the tapes of dawson's creek [TS]

  no no it was only on mr. a spacey and [TS]

  then it looks very strange but it's like [TS]

  Garfield Garfield huh yeah yeah but it's [TS]

  you know it could be fun right i mean if [TS]

  they do it right about the idea that one [TS]

  of your main characters is just vanished [TS]

  could could be fun i just i dreaded [TS]

  getting dragged out [TS]

  also we'll see i don't i don't like the [TS]

  touchy-feely think he's gone are you [TS]

  right on your right i don't want to see [TS]

  him like I guess him in an internal [TS]

  really person in this party is ok well i [TS]

  really like pacing in a different [TS]

  universe where he realizes that he's [TS]

  been taken out of it [TS]

  mine wants to get back and he has you [TS]

  know ways where he's trying maybe he's [TS]

  there may be using the third universe [TS]

  with the other Walter trying to look I [TS]

  can't explain the situation saying you [TS]

  have to get me back to my universe and [TS]

  they're constantly doing things that [TS]

  affect the other universe and eventually [TS]

  gets back you know that makes sense [TS]

  plot-wise but in the fridge universe but [TS]

  the the business where you you know they [TS]

  did this with Olivia to like are you the [TS]

  new Olivia the old one I seem to [TS]

  remember there was this man right I [TS]

  loved and you know that love conquers [TS]

  all stuff the future scenario i thought [TS]

  was I thought was fun [TS]

  I i thought that it was obvious that we [TS]

  were just kind of dwelling in it in [TS]

  order to see the past get changed and I [TS]

  thought it was a little weird that you [TS]

  know peter is is his consciousness to [TS]

  sort of taken forward but then he he [TS]

  doesn't remember it's and which seemed [TS]

  kind of inconsistent like they did that [TS]

  so that we would see what was going on [TS]

  but that's not actually what it was so I [TS]

  thought that was kind of confusing but [TS]

  it was interesting to see all right here [TS]

  are the ramifications of this future we [TS]

  destroyed the other universe which is [TS]

  what you thought we were going to do [TS]

  because you wouldn't destroy our [TS]

  universe and it turns out everything is [TS]

  bad so that's not the solution so we [TS]

  have to go for some other wacky your [TS]

  solution I you know I enjoyed venture go [TS]

  back [TS]

  yeah yeah we gonna do it again what they [TS]

  did a great job with is the fact that [TS]

  the whole the whole the future universe [TS]

  feels very flushed out you know very [TS]

  realized in terms of its its distinct [TS]

  right from both universes it's kind of [TS]

  got a little bit of both but at the same [TS]

  time its own thing we get to see you [TS]

  know Olivia to hire and basically like [TS]

  Broyles job and we have to see her you [TS]

  know nice as a as a rookie friend friend [TS]

  agent because he Peter actually finally [TS]

  gets to you know carry a gun and [TS]

  everything and I don't know I felt like [TS]

  a very it was a very sci-fi universe [TS]

  which one to alter in jail that was just [TS]

  there is no justice in that [TS]

  guess I don't think as we it was never [TS]

  clear no try it was clear why they were [TS]

  saying he was in jail it was saying he [TS]

  was in jail because it's like you did [TS]

  this you know our universe is falling [TS]

  apart it's basically your fault but of [TS]

  all the like everything he's done has [TS]

  been motivated in good ways meet say he [TS]

  saved the universe effectively so many [TS]

  different times you gonna blame him for [TS]

  like well it's I've never tried to save [TS]

  your son i think [TS]

  they generally titles i think they [TS]

  deliberately you know but despite the [TS]

  fact that they just say she was put on [TS]

  trial for that I think we're [TS]

  deliberately missing piece of pieces of [TS]

  that puzzle in the same way that you [TS]

  know we're told that Broyles you know [TS]

  lost his eye and Peter says alibaba you [TS]

  know you remember Detroit like these are [TS]

  things that are clearly you know were [TS]

  deliberately left out and I mean I [TS]

  really like Walter should be in jail and [TS]

  their primary universe 20 times over for [TS]

  the stuff that he's done unwilling [TS]

  victims and to the universal never but [TS]

  now he gets the pass and the Prime [TS]

  universe but in the future university [TS]

  hey wait a second is Walter is really [TS]

  screwing stuff up for us put him in jail [TS]

  my little better [TS]

  meanwhile in a really nice twist the [TS]

  wall tournament is the only survivor of [TS]

  his universe and it's just wandering [TS]

  around which you know on one level talk [TS]

  about a guy who is a kind of a bad guy [TS]

  but I guess everybody sympathetic to him [TS]

  after we help people that they feel bad [TS]

  for this horrible mass murderer was [TS]

  trying to destroy the universe but [TS]

  Walter isn't there [TS]

  Walter's in jail but Walter it's ok we [TS]

  feel bad for him we killed the whole [TS]

  universe is like a pity freedom but i do [TS]

  love the fact that the wall that wall [TS]

  turn it is is wandering around and [TS]

  plotting and thatthat's that I thought [TS]

  that was a really nice touch that the [TS]

  idea of of him without without the rest [TS]

  of his universe because honestly I [TS]

  thought going into the finale that what [TS]

  we were going to get with something a [TS]

  little more devastating like they would [TS]

  you know they would blow up one of the [TS]

  universe's but that would be kind of [TS]

  missing pieces or extra people on one [TS]

  side and so that we you know we have [TS]

  some more of that kind of missing you [TS]

  know or just miss matched pairs of of [TS]

  people but instead they you know I I [TS]

  think we were all sort of led to believe [TS]

  it was one universe vs another right [TS]

  that was the whole setup and so that [TS]

  final episode services saying no no no [TS]

  you can't do that because everybody dies [TS]

  or we figure out a way to work together [TS]

  which you know is a cool-looking to next [TS]

  season i think is a a really cool idea [TS]

  that there everybody does have to work [TS]

  together and and the doors are wide open [TS]

  and and both universes are experiencing [TS]

  the strange effects and it gives them a [TS]

  lot of room for for a different kind of [TS]

  storytelling next season then they had [TS]

  this season where we had the the [TS]

  parallels going back and forth [TS]

  I don't think they spend enough time [TS]

  talking about are hinting at [TS]

  I mean this is something like I don't [TS]

  know maybe we could not be too [TS]

  heavy-handed but talking about why it is [TS]

  the people within a particular universe [TS]

  feel an allegiance to that universe [TS]

  because Peters the perfect foil for that [TS]

  because he went over to the other one is [TS]

  like this is my real dad but maybe I [TS]

  care about these people and it's like [TS]

  what bio it by what thing are you [TS]

  choosing to care about the people in [TS]

  your year it's like it's like liking [TS]

  sports team that that's closest to the [TS]

  place that you were born it's really [TS]

  just arbitrary and then they do what are [TS]

  you saying you wouldn't fight for our [TS]

  universe John and I'm saying like you [TS]

  know they do is Patriot Act stuff with [TS]

  the police state and they do all sorts [TS]

  of like you know subtle and [TS]

  not-so-subtle political statements but [TS]

  never did they question the premise that [TS]

  well of course the people from this [TS]

  universe want want to save the people [TS]

  miss universe and hate the people in the [TS]

  other universe and it's just it's such a [TS]

  sort of you know unquestioning [TS]

  xenophobia they really makes no sense [TS]

  that they're literally the same people [TS]

  and are many Americans actually from the [TS]

  other universe but in this one you know [TS]

  yeah i think it's i mean you know you [TS]

  can you can viewed as a comment on [TS]

  patriotism if you want you know if you [TS]

  really feel like sometimes but they had [TS]

  a member they'd never explored like you [TS]

  never see the characters argument even [TS]

  when Peter was trying to forward his [TS]

  allegiances were and stuff they never [TS]

  it's always like a person like which [TS]

  Olivia do love more it but it's never [TS]

  like why why do we not care about the [TS]

  people that universe why are we trying [TS]

  to save our universe at the cost of [TS]

  there's no making my second i think [TS]

  that's the that's get seems like kind of [TS]

  a no-brainer to me I mean like I think [TS]

  that's how people would act well yeah [TS]

  but I don't really have a lot of people [TS]

  knowing like maybe this other university [TS]

  so bad guys I think that's what happened [TS]

  over there and your mom's still alive [TS]

  and you know your friends are basically [TS]

  there maybe you have a they have better [TS]

  jobs and you have like sorry but doctors [TS]

  are still in Brooklyn know right exactly [TS]

  you know well west wing close i wasn't [TS]

  all your texts sucking in matter your [TS]

  button [TS]

  no I think the reason that they have the [TS]

  wall turn it is to set up a villain who [TS]

  is sort of ruthlessly committed to [TS]

  having their universe win and destroy [TS]

  our universe to kind of offset some of [TS]

  those questions and one minute more is [TS]

  like like he's upset because someone [TS]

  stole his son that's his origin story [TS]

  right but it's just him and turned him [TS]

  into this you know kind of power mad mad [TS]

  museum easy that you can say is the [TS]

  Emperor [TS]

  he's got a little hologram you didn't [TS]

  have the house come on but it's not [TS]

  flickering blue so he's much better [TS]

  hologram technology that doesn't have [TS]

  much better hologram technology talk [TS]

  about Star Wars sometime but not this [TS]

  podcast on know the the I'm hoping that [TS]

  next season will get a little more of [TS]

  that where they're forced to work [TS]

  together and therefore forced to perhaps [TS]

  recognize that you know the universes [TS]

  are different and and not one superior [TS]

  to the other and that you know since [TS]

  they're kind of tied together that's the [TS]

  whole premise is it's not you can't just [TS]

  destroy one and let the other live they [TS]

  both have to find a way to survive which [TS]

  is cool because that that turns that [TS]

  story on its head although my wife kept [TS]

  on repeating a line from i believe it's [TS]

  Stargate where there's a parallel [TS]

  universe episode and Teal'c says at one [TS]

  point our universe is the only one of [TS]

  consequence as he's like mowing down [TS]

  parallel force in some people that [TS]

  there's something to be said for that [TS]

  that just pure sophisms like really i [TS]

  don't i don't care about these other [TS]

  parallel universe whatever it's mine i [TS]

  want my universe to survive but the [TS]

  other way what does it actually makes me [TS]

  a little over there [TS]

  yeah absolutely but I it that sort of [TS]

  shortsightedness strikes me I just [TS]

  totally realistic like people would just [TS]

  yet people would just be like I don't [TS]

  know those people that's like a toilet [TS]

  yeah looks like you're ready with a [TS]

  relative space a little they look like [TS]

  me but that I don't know them you know [TS]

  anybody but you think the the regular [TS]

  people can be said about the protagonist [TS]

  in the show are constantly dealing with [TS]

  this alternate like they're they are the [TS]

  people dealing with this problem [TS]

  absolutely unacceptable too weird even [TS]

  for us right well Pacey like I said [TS]

  paces from the other universe and yet [TS]

  he's chosen this other one to fight for [TS]

  and why don't they say like hey you know [TS]

  we're gonna kill everybody in supposedly [TS]

  your universe but you seems like this [TS]

  one is it because just because you grew [TS]

  up here or you were here since you were [TS]

  like it's basically two runners move to [TS]

  move to the west coast when I was a kid [TS]

  and that's why i like the giants and its [TS]

  nature nature versus nurture jump so [TS]

  when it comes down to one of the things [TS]

  about the show that has always [TS]

  fascinated me and we got a lot more of [TS]

  that this season but it started last [TS]

  season as well is is the fact that at [TS]

  its core this show's premise that the [TS]

  most important thing about this show is [TS]

  this very [TS]

  sad story about parents losing a child [TS]

  and that and I really love this about [TS]

  the show that the entire universe two [TS]

  universes are put in just his in [TS]

  existential peril because a guy wanted [TS]

  to save his son and a particularly nice [TS]

  guy too that's the best part [TS]

  Walter was not not a you know like I [TS]

  love guys could write he was he was [TS]

  doing horrible things to children [TS]

  yes he was experimenting with this [TS]

  through his refusal to let his own son [TS]

  go you know like his whole he has a good [TS]

  character arc on it is you know I i like [TS]

  most of the characters in the show [TS]

  because the evil guy is kind of easily [TS]

  good reason and the good guy Walter was [TS]

  not really so good [TS]

  most of his life right right it has a [TS]

  sort of remove parts of his brain hurt [TS]

  just different charities castrated [TS]

  himself Natalie yeah but i just i love [TS]

  that score I mean that the beauty of the [TS]

  the whole pier Walter's relationship and [TS]

  in the last episode we saw that where he [TS]

  refers to Walter as his dad but refers [TS]

  to alternate as his father [TS]

  uh-huh which I thought was really a nice [TS]

  way to to handle that is that you know [TS]

  he's in this position because Walter [TS]

  couldn't save his own son but realized [TS]

  he could save the other one and you know [TS]

  messed everything up but it came from [TS]

  this you know essentially an act of love [TS]

  at it had been a very sad situation but [TS]

  also a supreme active of arrogance right [TS]

  that you know I can happening [TS]

  yeah yeah it wasn't like it raised [TS]

  wonder the guy from the universe he [TS]

  doesn't mind he's not other universe [TS]

  prejudice we got a couple the word for [TS]

  that Universal isn't universalist [TS]

  universalist that's right now he's got [TS]

  no choice he lost his peter is like well [TS]

  I'll take the second-best you know [TS]

  that's the joke and in futurama i love [TS]

  which is that they come to the edge of [TS]

  the University the parallel universe [TS]

  where they're all wearing cowboy hats [TS]

  and they say will call your universe [TS]

  universe one [TS]

  well we'll call our universe universe a [TS]

  everybody likes their own universe the [TS]

  best come on it's just the way it works [TS]

  then that will be even the scenario next [TS]

  season i guess which will prepare for [TS]

  lots of you know split screen shots and [TS]

  stunt doubles [TS]

  if it wasn't long enough they will have [TS]

  to eventually have like the big reveal [TS]

  at the end of some season like nine [TS]

  hundred different universes where [TS]

  everyone has subtly different facial [TS]

  hair right i mean like that that's the [TS]

  one thing that always kind of bothered [TS]

  me about this show is what is the [TS]

  rationale for two universes I I assume [TS]

  there's an answer it doesn't make sense [TS]

  if you think about it we went over this [TS]

  last data is deleted [TS]

  yeah I can't let that kind of blows me [TS]

  away was like I try not to think about [TS]

  it you're you know there is why are [TS]

  there only they have well I'm just [TS]

  saying well that there might only be too [TS]

  because they're linked because the one [TS]

  that that that Walter burst through to [TS]

  is this other version and that now [TS]

  they're kind of stuck together but just [TS]

  all the other ones have like they're all [TS]

  like other the infinite number of [TS]

  universes all just have dinosaurs in [TS]

  them that's all these are the only two [TS]

  with humans [TS]

  well the fact that these two were like [TS]

  identical you know identical except for [TS]

  the Zeppelin's on the day they were [TS]

  linked together is the ridiculous bit [TS]

  you know that that they're they're [TS]

  obviously different ways you can before [TS]

  there was a whole burst through and now [TS]

  it just it's a TV yeah it is yeah but i [TS]

  guess i think between anyway and they [TS]

  may actually tell the story at some [TS]

  point about you know what was the [TS]

  divergence pointer why is it like this [TS]

  or they may just say you know let's just [TS]

  say there are 2i I think somebody's [TS]

  they're gonna I mean they're like [TS]

  Battlestar it's all going to be God the [TS]

  parent process or those sorry that we [TS]

  always want to call them watchers there [TS]

  the watchers from Marvel Comics made [TS]

  into TV characters right observe the [TS]

  difference between observing and [TS]

  watching and it is who watches the [TS]

  watchmen but who observe is the [TS]

  observers right because in the Marvel [TS]

  Comics is the bald guy who lives on the [TS]

  moon and he watches what happens in [TS]

  record and and occasionally will [TS]

  interfere [TS]

  even though he's not supposed to and [TS]

  those bald guys are don't lift [TS]

  well maybe they do live on the moon i [TS]

  don't know where they live but that's [TS]

  the observers infringed they're clearly [TS]

  Starfleet officers violating the primary [TS]

  so so well more seriously dead [TS]

  hey the I don't use here by the way the [TS]

  Star Trek thing you're very confusing [TS]

  you you referred to the evil Captain [TS]

  Kirk earlier and most people think of [TS]

  the parallel universe episode of ER [TS]

  stock but there was a naval captain kirk [TS]

  in that episode well except i was [TS]

  thinking about the one with the [TS]

  transporter accident where he gets [TS]

  loaded i was i was going to take it you [TS]

  know kill us both Spock alright good i [TS]

  just wanted to clarify that that that [TS]

  you were [TS]

  right now what I'm talking to the enemy [TS]

  within not mirror mirror it's very [TS]

  important distinction there [TS]

  thank you i'm on this podcast don't like [TS]

  Julian if you're not a nerd [TS]

  I wasn't evil spy don't the a-10 a [TS]

  dormir goatee we really have to go once [TS]

  you have to go to your evil [TS]

  yeah that's a definitive goatee that's [TS]

  why i use that I used to have a goatee i [TS]

  get rid of it so I view you don't know [TS]

  which one I am now [TS]

  yes the alternate universe denmark and [TS]

  replaced and he a good one [TS]

  yep that's right both of those right [TS]

  yeah actually the the evil one is in [TS]

  your attic now I don't have an addict [TS]

  but yes they have primer connection from [TS]

  the last episode you [TS]

  yes I can't believe I didn't get to be [TS]

  on that one so disappointing [TS]

  sorry it's because it was all I've can't [TS]

  live in California yes you have to come [TS]

  to California for that sorry [TS]

  giggling was upset about it was like why [TS]

  didn't i get my email it's like you know [TS]

  we were just all have to be in the room [TS]

  in the room so yeah sad [TS]

  we're now I I lost track there was [TS]

  something about what were we talking [TS]

  about sorry you were saying range [TS]

  something about friends next season the [TS]

  universe all versions this is that you [TS]

  talked about to eat why there were just [TS]

  two of them and they were linked [TS]

  oh yeah okay so I I got it so more [TS]

  seriously though about the about the [TS]

  observers are we going with this because [TS]

  they keep they keep being in a little [TS]

  tiny bit and saying kind of maddening [TS]

  things and and at first i thought the [TS]

  show is going to be about the observers [TS]

  because they kind of appeared first and [TS]

  now we've got this whole complexity of [TS]

  these parallel universes and now i have [TS]

  no idea what they're planning with more [TS]

  a statue is yeah we're totes statue [TS]

  all right you're right i shot early [TS]

  early on and it's the one thread they [TS]

  refuse to really pick up or step off and [TS]

  it's just you got always have something [TS]

  in reserve and since they're so vague [TS]

  you can really make up anything you want [TS]

  as their explanation at any point in a [TS]

  timeline and not be inconsistent for [TS]

  total expenditure was a lot later and [TS]

  lost but but I'm season 2 wasn't [TS]

  the idea was the last episode is a [TS]

  decision one [TS]

  no no last episode of season two yeah [TS]

  seems like pretty early because you're [TS]

  just like so that was my favorite part [TS]

  of Los was that foretold statue and then [TS]

  just John that said he there what else [TS]

  might I thought was that reveal the best [TS]

  reveal ever [TS]

  yeah why doesn't have four toes no [TS]

  reason I got this show is called last [TS]

  bowl that was highest that was either [TS]

  they could count so I guess again I [TS]

  guess it would be pointless so they [TS]

  could make it up I just I I wonder where [TS]

  they're going with it because they do [TS]

  seem to be like the are they like what [TS]

  they see the poor lighting vs or [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah well I mean they had something like [TS]

  maintaining the timeline right like they [TS]

  seem to have a problem is that episode [TS]

  where she'll save the girl right the one [TS]

  of the guys save the girl who was before [TS]

  trying to save the girl was supposed to [TS]

  be on the plane or whatever right i mean [TS]

  that we keep getting these glimpses I [TS]

  mean I still think back to that first [TS]

  one of those first scenes where there's [TS]

  a scene within their see more like Peter [TS]

  like meets one in the woods and he [TS]

  starts doing that you they do the the [TS]

  rip-off from the doctor who episode [TS]

  where he starts repeating him and then [TS]

  he started saying I'm saying like what [TS]

  he's saying before he says it so when I [TS]

  never understood the point that what is [TS]

  it then maybe the day showing that they [TS]

  know they know the future and the past [TS]

  and the present but there's obviously [TS]

  squabble but you could've just said i [TS]

  clearly can just have a normal [TS]

  conversation we see that happen another [TS]

  episode they have been traveling so [TS]

  maybe by introducing the time travel [TS]

  thing in this last episode that's what [TS]

  that's where the observers come in is [TS]

  that they're not as concerned about the [TS]

  parallels as they are about that the [TS]

  like messing up the timelines maybe to [TS]

  observe have we ever seen an observer in [TS]

  the alternate universe that I don't know [TS]

  stomping well and they have here the [TS]

  thing is you gotta keep you know that I [TS]

  think there's probably a PDF page that [TS]

  will answer this question there are but [TS]

  they appear in a lot of different [TS]

  episodes in the background [TS]

  yeah i think it's french television com [TS]

  has a whole page that is the observer [TS]

  sightings to yeah but wouldn't it be [TS]

  interesting if they never were in the [TS]

  alternate universe [TS]

  what would that say I don't know you [TS]

  want the writing staff of fringe dan [TS]

  you're confusing me we're here I'm [TS]

  looking for I'm looking for suggestions [TS]

  that's a maybe there's a whiz [TS]

  word for anyone actually who has never [TS]

  seen the absolutely brilliant [TS]

  there's a youtube video about the [TS]

  writers room of lost which just starts [TS]

  with them say we are so screwed me up [TS]

  trying to come up with all these [TS]

  different answers for things [TS]

  what if there's a wizard I don't like [TS]

  wizard what if there's a witch [TS]

  it's pretty the observer i think is in [TS]

  the parallel universe to are you [TS]

  checking this i am looking checking i'm [TS]

  looking right now I don't know I mean [TS]

  that would seem to me to be a deliberate [TS]

  choice at that point right if the [TS]

  observers never never appeared there and [TS]

  then that seems like there would be a [TS]

  point to that but are you too may be the [TS]

  only way of consequence [TS]

  well I feel like what it have to be a [TS]

  point because they haven't really [TS]

  decided to only have decided that these [TS]

  guys are not like all-powerful [TS]

  all-knowing because they do argue with [TS]

  each other and there are like black [TS]

  sheep among the observers doing things [TS]

  I'm not supposed to be doing and getting [TS]

  yelled at by the other observers and [TS]

  having to fix their mistakes and arguing [TS]

  about what the best course but they're [TS]

  all working towards some sort of goal [TS]

  which is for things to turn out the way [TS]

  the observers think they should internet [TS]

  they're all snappy dressers [TS]

  yes they're all exactly the same the you [TS]

  know it have we seen the fringe of the [TS]

  writers because it all the French [TS]

  writers may be bald and this may be a [TS]

  different writers on the chosen know [TS]

  this area on this direction that we're [TS]

  doing running over the writers for the [TS]

  Reds got it got dark dark tower at the [TS]

  end there again with the family with the [TS]

  observer thing being the Marvel Comics [TS]

  watcher is that member in the Marvel [TS]

  Comics the one who is assigned to the [TS]

  earth is breaks the rules and is looked [TS]

  down upon by his his a appears and the [TS]

  guy who's Walters palette we see the [TS]

  main observer does the exact same thing [TS]

  so right he saves them from crashing is [TS]

  waiting for a big eraser to come and you [TS]

  know started racing characters Daffy [TS]

  Duck style you know [TS]

  well if they could take that Animated [TS]

  episode do a sequel to that meant that [TS]

  letter be more it could be erased some [TS]

  point we just have it only ends up with [TS]

  there being one person left this is all [TS]

  inside Walters head in his hands silent [TS]

  boom no known issues but it cuts to pay [TS]

  see in an all-white universe and [TS]

  constitution in all my office all week [TS]

  no he's all myself because nobody else [TS]

  exists in the university's just been [TS]

  parked there and he he begins to act out [TS]

  episode of Dawson's if they would if [TS]

  they were just a nobody from his desk [TS]

  and Austin's creek and this is all a [TS]

  dream as you know yet exactly its new [TS]

  heart is the second Newhart suit yes [TS]

  Katie Holmes next I'm saying that would [TS]

  be hilarious fall asleep again BAC maybe [TS]

  get people really really angry but [TS]

  hilarious you fall asleep again Peter I [TS]

  mean Pacey whatever what do you think [TS]

  they can go with this with this series [TS]

  in terms of like as the show goes on [TS]

  like at least lost their on an island [TS]

  presumably the the resolution will be [TS]

  having something to do with them getting [TS]

  off the island everybody got a bit [TS]

  better like season for the central [TS]

  conflict in the direction you can go and [TS]

  but this show this you know if you say [TS]

  well with the direction is one universe [TS]

  has to win like there's no there's no [TS]

  natural ending to the story even the [TS]

  x-files had a more natural ending [TS]

  because it was like what happened to his [TS]

  sister and other aliens yes or no like [TS]

  there was some sort of its central [TS]

  question but the show is more about we [TS]

  set up some characters and situations [TS]

  but there's no overall goal [TS]

  no I think every season they give it [TS]

  like a mini goal but there's no like big [TS]

  big our goal right it seems like the big [TS]

  our goal is that that but at least now [TS]

  is both universes survive instead of one [TS]

  universe fights for survival [TS]

  it's both universes survive and I could [TS]

  see the end of the show playing out as [TS]

  being essentially you know they split [TS]

  the universe's apart and solve whatever [TS]

  everything's all patched up yeah either [TS]

  that or there's a sort of a terrible [TS]

  price to pay where they do end up [TS]

  merging them together in order to save [TS]

  them and half of the people have to die [TS]

  in order to make that happen or [TS]

  something which is very happy with [TS]

  always living together [TS]

  i I don't know but you know I i could [TS]

  see that there are some directions there [TS]

  I i wager I would major heavily on the [TS]

  existence of of other parallel personals [TS]

  before the end of the show I i was [TS]

  saying if it goes on if it goes on [TS]

  longer like if you're a writer on the [TS]

  show like you don't know how many more [TS]

  seasons you've got so you have but you [TS]

  have to plan for something like you have [TS]

  a plan to get the plan to work towards [TS]

  something I lost for example was castle [TS]

  after the second season like well we [TS]

  were working towards getting off the [TS]

  island but we did [TS]

  not enough time so it's clear what [TS]

  you're trying to do but you didn't make [TS]

  it but this is like every season you [TS]

  know if the if the goal really is this [TS]

  kind of tepid you know universal screwed [TS]

  up in episode one of fringe you know [TS]

  it's already screwed up and the goal the [TS]

  series is to put band-aids over all the [TS]

  holes and make university without holes [TS]

  in them so that it's like it's like [TS]

  normal like that's the goal is to get [TS]

  back to normalcy [TS]

  that's the end of the series but it dies [TS]

  of boredom it's like well we've we've [TS]

  cleared up all the universe whole so [TS]

  we're sure not going to have any more of [TS]

  these crazy fringe cases well not and [TS]

  not if they have to do that you know [TS]

  what some sort of horrible price and [TS]

  there's some you know interesting [TS]

  character things that may be but if [TS]

  you're gonna do the horrible price thing [TS]

  you have to know like okay this is gonna [TS]

  be your last season guys so write an [TS]

  entire season with the stuff to resolve [TS]

  the storyline hopefully though though [TS]

  actually give them a heads up in my case [TS]

  it happens from time to time but i mean [TS]

  i see i mean i can picture and ending [TS]

  where they patch these two universes up [TS]

  and then they like pan out there's like [TS]

  a gazillion more university blow a hole [TS]

  in the universe or or maybe going on [TS]

  maybe the observers bosses is it the [TS]

  boss is actually like uber Walter from [TS]

  the future of some other parallel [TS]

  universe who's decided that he has to [TS]

  take control of all the all the parallel [TS]

  universes to save them from themselves [TS]

  in the last year I want to shave their [TS]

  heads because of ice at the elements the [TS]

  lice the world trying to avoid that all [TS]

  the observers have gone back like man [TS]

  whose life thing that really sucks we [TS]

  gotta try to stop John we're not that [TS]

  that's not that's not true because they [TS]

  have hats is known as well might have my [TS]

  supper at the end observers will fall [TS]

  into a pit of lava alien birthday [TS]

  stomach [TS]

  alright but i would watch that show [TS]

  that's awesome that's alien 3 [TS]

  come on oh I know I know I hate that [TS]

  movie we don't have any news yet yet we [TS]

  have yet to have more even showed your [TS]

  robots more robots robots on fringe [TS]

  yeah well massive dynamic right i mean [TS]

  they're supposed to be at the robot when [TS]

  they built a robot in terms of mr. [TS]

  dynamic is like what do they do you make [TS]

  money they have a real crazy stuff man [TS]

  every patent for everything they're like [TS]

  Microsoft and Google and Apple and [TS]

  everybody else all put together and they [TS]

  only get one [TS]

  I'm really nice building in Manhattan [TS]

  yeah they had a lab they have every [TS]

  patent on every technology ever because [TS]

  they invented them all in the seventies [TS]

  yeah you want to you want to build soul [TS]

  magnets tough they've got to have the [TS]

  soul magnets oh so it's Halliburton plus [TS]

  aperture science [TS]

  yeah it's essentially it no but if you [TS]

  think back to them not really having is [TS]

  clear plan the first season it was [TS]

  definitely setup is being that that [TS]

  massive dynamic was this this big you [TS]

  know enemy and they were the behind [TS]

  these mysterious things and then it [TS]

  turned out o know that it's just the [TS]

  guy's a buddy Walters and they invented [TS]

  lots of stuff that wasn't weird like [TS]

  they agree that such a strange decision [TS]

  because they were clearly set up as [TS]

  antagonistic Walter own so that they [TS]

  they needed to keep going to them for [TS]

  other ways he reminds me kind of like a [TS]

  Wolfram and Hart in angel you got the [TS]

  evil science people want you to [TS]

  free-to-play this direction though they [TS]

  love to you know set up something it [TS]

  could be a perfectly valid conflict but [TS]

  then resolved over the physical and [TS]

  decide haha we fooled you that was [TS]

  actually misdirect really this is [TS]

  another thing which is also interesting [TS]

  and then your offer anything else right [TS]

  which I like the baby stupid mommy's [TS]

  baby like a no baby anytime you have [TS]

  babies and he shows a big deal now they [TS]

  just want to grow real fast we could [TS]

  activate the machine we can see that [TS]

  baby again i'm assuming we are but it's [TS]

  like you know it's not that big of a [TS]

  deal and i love that baby that that's [TS]

  the best handling of a fake pregnancy in [TS]

  a TV show ever [TS]

  where she's pregnant yet one episode [TS]

  yeah just usually but they don't have to [TS]

  sir that's how long it takes a baby to [TS]

  be born in the alternate universe for 42 [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  well they have to do some magical like [TS]

  you know now [TS]

  nope nope 42min magical intervention [TS]

  division time people in the alternate [TS]

  universe seemed to have lots of flexible [TS]

  morals not just Walternate but all these [TS]

  helpers or whatever it's like yeah [TS]

  terrible kidnap your i love i have to [TS]

  say that one my favorite i love the [TS]

  science guy in the ultimate evil because [TS]

  he's I nobody such a dork in our [TS]

  universe which is it just cracks me up [TS]

  he's like this totally unassuming nerd [TS]

  in our universities like this deeply [TS]

  sinister cited in the other one but he's [TS]

  an unassuming here in the other universe [TS]

  to he's just has he's asked to do more [TS]

  interesting things i think if you took [TS]

  the nerd in our universe and ask them to [TS]

  the same things you like okay [TS]

  well not just do it for the science in [TS]

  whatever I think about that we'll see [TS]

  about these two universes are providing [TS]

  great control experiments for each other [TS]

  not to get into too you know deep into [TS]

  the analysis here but something that was [TS]

  brought up earlier as the idea that you [TS]

  could view what happens in that parallel [TS]

  universe as being you know entirely [TS]

  about how we can given a different set [TS]

  of circumstances we could go down on a [TS]

  much darker path right and so the phone [TS]

  olivia is she's different and she's [TS]

  darker and she has no problem with [TS]

  killing people in our universe when she [TS]

  crosses over and we've got this [TS]

  perfectly nice scientist guy who is like [TS]

  a you know it like dr. Mengele and he [TS]

  alternate universe we have alternate we [TS]

  saw how he behaves and and there's a [TS]

  police state and you know I is hard to [TS]

  believe there's nothing commentary and I [TS]

  guess I feel like in some of its it's [TS]

  just that they the circumstances are so [TS]

  much more height and they're like [TS]

  they've been dealing with all these [TS]

  holes in the universe like 20 years now [TS]

  and there's just I think they're very [TS]

  much more endeared to that maybe that's [TS]

  just had a a you know rubbed off on [TS]

  there right there what they're willing [TS]

  to do especially because you consider we [TS]

  are seeing these like this is very [TS]

  extreme right this is the whole idea i [TS]

  agree i thought you know you know [TS]

  there's a terrorist bombing somewhere [TS]

  and immediately everybody lines up to [TS]

  get rid of their of their rights in [TS]

  exchange for some security or a feeling [TS]

  of security right i mean that we've seen [TS]

  that ourselves in our in our own country [TS]

  not to get too political about it but I [TS]

  mean it's clear that that happens then [TS]

  societies are placed under stress and [TS]

  sometimes the way they react as may be [TS]

  made [TS]

  maybe based more out of fear than logic [TS]

  and it's got to be part of what they're [TS]

  saying about this alternate universe i [TS]

  do enjoy that they they make you know [TS]

  despite the fact that was John says they [TS]

  like to misdirect and then we've seen a [TS]

  lot of stuff changed i do enjoy wasn't a [TS]

  recent episode where they referenced [TS]

  like the second or third episode of the [TS]

  show [TS]

  oh yeah they talked about the bus we [TS]

  have with the with the amber how they [TS]

  get their own pattern [TS]

  yeah well i mean i think that was that [TS]

  was kind of interesting call back to [TS]

  something like hey you thought we forgot [TS]

  about this [TS]

  nope totally got it covered well isn't [TS]

  it i think the family itself isn't my [TS]

  favorite silly [TS]

  elements and on the show because like if [TS]

  you're gonna if you get a repair like [TS]

  holes in space time they decided to go [TS]

  with the is like it's practically a [TS]

  culinary solution that's that's like [TS]

  like an insect product or some sort of [TS]

  google instead of doing like the [TS]

  scientific superwomen the University [TS]

  thank you for being around group right [TS]

  we have brown goop really is what we use [TS]

  the best thing for really it's caulk it [TS]

  it's temporary but it'll you know it'll [TS]

  keep out the ants snake [TS]

  yeah yeah I know that and I guess the [TS]

  pattern if we're talking talking about [TS]

  the season one of the pattern i guess [TS]

  the pattern ended up being a pattern of [TS]

  of things from the people in the [TS]

  parallel universe who were sent over his [TS]

  agents or something like that [TS]

  yeah it was a little holes in the [TS]

  universe and weird things happening [TS]

  because of them either intentionally [TS]

  because of other agents or [TS]

  unintentionally because of like soft [TS]

  spots it all connected it is you know it [TS]

  was again it was a thing like this with [TS]

  the whole show is going to be about this [TS]

  pattern no that's leading you to the [TS]

  next season which you ever seen this [TS]

  show is very good about building on you [TS]

  know doing something and not getting [TS]

  stuck in a rut not getting stuck in a [TS]

  you know because even some of the [TS]

  x-files which shows clearly based on got [TS]

  stuck on the right of a [TS]

  monster-of-the-week are there aliens yes [TS]

  or no and they did that for so many [TS]

  seasons that pretty successfully but [TS]

  still this show has like the pattern and [TS]

  they say no season two we're gonna [TS]

  explain to you what is this pattern what [TS]

  are you seeing your all the pattern is [TS]

  because Walter did this thing and broke [TS]

  these universes you know and then after [TS]

  that the characters don't spend all this [TS]

  time going what's going on with this [TS]

  pattern they know what's going on now [TS]

  they're on to the next thing that [TS]

  pattern is because of the universe [TS]

  now let's fight with of the universe or [TS]

  deal with the issues there you know [TS]

  that's that's something I like about the [TS]

  show is that it you know it moves on [TS]

  I agree with that i think we've been is [TS]

  done that better than the x-files the [TS]

  one element infringed that I haven't [TS]

  liked that reminds me of the x-files is [TS]

  the the shape-shifting creatures well [TS]

  with that you can kill in a certain way [TS]

  and then they kill people and take their [TS]

  identity and and they did in this in the [TS]

  show they have like mercury for blood or [TS]

  something like that and i just it that's [TS]

  such an x-files concept with the [TS]

  shape-shifting assassins and I just a it [TS]

  seems like a wheelie [TS]

  weird and bad fit there's like an [TS]

  episode where there's a u.s. senator [TS]

  who's been replaced by a shape-shifter [TS]

  and I never liked the you know the [TS]

  shape-shifting assassin thing in the [TS]

  x-files and it didn't work here either [TS]

  how do you have you judged us both of [TS]

  how do you judge a show compared to the [TS]

  x-files at this point I was not an [TS]

  x-files help you guys climate i try to [TS]

  disqualify tried to see the movie I i [TS]

  tried to get Dan interested in the Derek [TS]

  Morgan episodes which i really like [TS]

  about i love the x-files although my my [TS]

  feeling about it is really turning by [TS]

  the fact that went on too long and it [TS]

  fell into its own actually I i think [TS]

  that's a show that was better when it [TS]

  was monster-of-the-week and a lot worse [TS]

  when it was about the mythology because [TS]

  the mythology went on too long and [TS]

  became nonsensical and I I just stopped [TS]

  caring after a while and with fringe I [TS]

  feel like the mythology the good the [TS]

  mythology is right like of its kind of [TS]

  sprinkled in that first season and [TS]

  you're like oh yeah more that or that [TS]

  and then the second and third season [TS]

  like every season they increase [TS]

  two-thirds I feel like this past season [TS]

  almost entirely with all that was great [TS]

  my problem my problem with the way [TS]

  French handle that the season is that [TS]

  they had some episodes that were meant [TS]

  to look like monster-of-the-week and [TS]

  they all turned out to be mythology [TS]

  related and I think that makes sense [TS]

  though because because [TS]

  monster-of-the-week is like one of these [TS]

  weird things that are happening [TS]

  eventually if you make any progress you [TS]

  figure out oh I cya later happened yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah there is nothing nobody there [TS]

  was no reason for any of these things [TS]

  besides the universe's is what we're [TS]

  learning so what what I'd say overall is [TS]

  that I think that that overall I feel [TS]

  better about the series in the series [TS]

  arc then I did about the x-files but i [TS]

  don't think that the series has hit the [TS]

  highs of individual episodes of The X [TS]

  Files that was that was my take on the [TS]

  beginning of the series 2 and continues [TS]

  to be the case for purpose of whatever [TS]

  reason like I don't know this because [TS]

  there are more characters and have less [TS]

  time to spend on them but you know [TS]

  exhales about those two characters [TS]

  Mulder and Scully with a really simple [TS]

  setup and just just executed so well [TS]

  x-files had fewer moving parts seem like [TS]

  which sounds ridiculous when you think [TS]

  about the big arc of x files with all [TS]

  these crazy care but really when i [TS]

  discard that was like two main [TS]

  characters you so much [TS]

  with them and you know they really [TS]

  develop them and you believed that it [TS]

  was like it was more affecting you know [TS]

  when those characters had problems [TS]

  because you felt like you knew them and [TS]

  I think for the like that the one-off [TS]

  shows with a little silly shows x-files [TS]

  just had real snap on those like you [TS]

  know I can't think of games off and like [TS]

  French has more of a like Louis [TS]

  slow-burn type thing with occasional [TS]

  like crappier episodes but it's like [TS]

  roughly at a you know [TS]

  yeah it's like a solid but not [TS]

  outstanding yeah it's like mediocre like [TS]

  that it's never friends never really [TS]

  embarrassingly bad which ex was [TS]

  occasionally was embarrassing but it's [TS]

  never really embarrassingly bad but it [TS]

  no it can't break through that like I [TS]

  don't know what it is maybe ensemble [TS]

  cast maybe it's because they keep moving [TS]

  on four different plot points it never [TS]

  really breaks through to either to like [TS]

  the hilarious highs of like that the [TS]

  x-files episodes with a long government [TS]

  at the DMV convention or that one right [TS]

  there in the forties on the boat like [TS]

  there's so many memorable X file or even [TS]

  like the there was that one with the guy [TS]

  from Everybody Loves Raymond with the [TS]

  apple pie [TS]

  oh yeah thats cloud Brockman's final [TS]

  repose that's one of the way I yeah [TS]

  right it means to this so many just [TS]

  amazing episodes no friend no single [TS]

  fringe episode has gotten close to those [TS]

  levels you just watching for anything as [TS]

  mentioned the circus freaks episode and [TS]

  you didn't mention the one with the [TS]

  cockroaches from outer space which are [TS]

  also among my favorite everybody has [TS]

  everybody has their there no but i [TS]

  thought i would argue that they're like [TS]

  six or seven that are these just so [TS]

  clearly kind of brilliant x-files [TS]

  episodes that are 80 if you had [TS]

  everybody make a list of 10 that there'd [TS]

  be six or seven that would be on every [TS]

  single one of them and infringed yeah i [TS]

  think maybe it's because it is a little [TS]

  more serialize dad and and even from the [TS]

  start and as certainly after the first [TS]

  season they've had very little [TS]

  opportunity to do those kind of more [TS]

  standalone episodes and you know maybe [TS]

  it's just that it's just not it's just [TS]

  not funny like the x-files could there's [TS]

  the only funny and and if there's not [TS]

  feeling of fringe levels responded to a [TS]

  sense of humor Walter is the only funny [TS]

  thing really on the show and I have to [TS]

  say you know like and that's going to [TS]

  bed like a lot instead of with yeah but [TS]

  I mean like he's cute and part of it is [TS]

  John Nobles performances i think great [TS]

  you know and he's such a weird eccentric [TS]

  character that you really he is funny [TS]

  but I did [TS]

  show lacks a sense of humor because I [TS]

  feel like what's you know I think what [TS]

  helps them a lot of other shows their [TS]

  kind of along these lines are like you [TS]

  know you get the idea that the [TS]

  characters think that the stuff is [TS]

  ridiculous and not just like not just [TS]

  you know unlikely or like impossible [TS]

  like oh my god how is this possible but [TS]

  like the characters it seemed to have [TS]

  almost a talking to you like you like [TS]

  vampires really you know aspect of it [TS]

  that that that makes sort of the humor [TS]

  work a little bit and there's no I don't [TS]

  feel like you don't get that necessarily [TS]

  in this show we're gonna fix itself very [TS]

  seriously [TS]

  ya think that what's that what's that [TS]

  ya think that what's that what's that [TS]

  systems name with the curly air Astra [TS]

  Astra tested right so she with her [TS]

  character is so unfailingly earnest but [TS]

  we never learn anything about her [TS]

  motivations of her life and she's just [TS]

  kind of there in the background but [TS]

  she's not wise cracking or star she's [TS]

  just kind of like I can't but I don't [TS]

  know if she's just like an automaton [TS]

  even even the good version and thinking [TS]

  of another show because Dan is speaking [TS]

  and undermining of shows that you to [TS]

  deter me onto Terriers which also had a [TS]

  fairly big cast of characters but like [TS]

  was just so much more fun [TS]

  yeah with multiplication am in which [TS]

  they didn't have a better job of drawing [TS]

  that those two main characters right and [TS]

  even the sub the you know the other part [TS]

  everybody was fun everybody had some [TS]

  sort of you know that the scenes they [TS]

  were more interesting and fun they had [TS]

  some sort of thing going for them and it [TS]

  was you know but whereas the filler [TS]

  characters and fringe or just kind of [TS]

  like just just reading their line well [TS]

  it filling their plot isn't telling the [TS]

  Broyles and Astrid I mean asteroid is [TS]

  amusing in her connection with with [TS]

  Walter but little bit that was her only [TS]

  definition of Broyles and astroturf kind [TS]

  of blanks and it's telling I think that [TS]

  somebody like Lincoln ends up becoming a [TS]

  much more interesting character and that [TS]

  they're adding a mr. regular where they [TS]

  found this other character who actually [TS]

  yeah he's he's a kind of more [TS]

  interesting guy and and I I'd like to [TS]

  see more of him we're in some of the [TS]

  characters they got our kind of duds and [TS]

  in Broyles is my Broyles well we know [TS]

  Lance Reddick is a really good actor and [TS]

  he's just you know he's boring i guess [TS]

  you know Nina from from massive dynamic [TS]

  is his girlfriend or something it's just [TS]

  not a dish is nothing there it's just [TS]

  not that interested to give alternate [TS]

  Broyles a more story for the whole [TS]

  episode really nice Tennessee's family [TS]

  and like what is what his deal is in his [TS]

  motivation it's like not sorry we're [TS]

  killing them [TS]

  we're going to get the the premise of [TS]

  the show is killed interesting [TS]

  characters right until a little boring [TS]

  servants the show's don't have too many [TS]

  characters that are two interesting [TS]

  don't be too interesting or else you [TS]

  might get that that's the things you can [TS]

  select carriers that's the thing about [TS]

  the parallel universe right is in many [TS]

  ways that parallel universe team is much [TS]

  more dynamic and more interesting cast [TS]

  of characters and maybe we can argue [TS]

  that you couldn't [TS]

  you couldn't carry that for for every [TS]

  episode but i don't know i think that [TS]

  they in some ways the writers got a [TS]

  little bit of a mulligan and they got to [TS]

  sort of retail the the fringe cast you [TS]

  know and retail the French story with [TS]

  this different cast and it was more [TS]

  interesting with a banter with Charlie [TS]

  and lincoln and and you know the Olivia [TS]

  over there the parallel olivia is is [TS]

  more kind of spunky and and you know it [TS]

  was it was kind of it on one level was a [TS]

  lot of fun another level really kind of [TS]

  put the serious you know great [TS]

  characters on our side into relief they [TS]

  have gathered writers on this on the [TS]

  show or is it like well most shows i [TS]

  mean you know they have a probably a [TS]

  certain number of like writers in like [TS]

  their room [TS]

  they're basically I don't know if they [TS]

  thinking like as compared to like Doctor [TS]

  Who where they'll bring in the other [TS]

  game and or you know or they just have [TS]

  to russell t davies do a lot like or [TS]

  even an x-files a lot of x-files [TS]

  episodes we like you know they would [TS]

  bring in other people to have either the [TS]

  the idea for it or different person to [TS]

  direct or whatever where there was a [TS]

  personal stamp on individual so there's [TS]

  a lot of the writers room as yet [TS]

  friendly largest yeah but you've got [TS]

  you've got a decent number of people who [TS]

  you know have you know Nate you'd like [TS]

  the first season had two episodes by [TS]

  zack whedon I think joss whedon's [TS]

  program he was on he was on the staff of [TS]

  Maj Abrams has contributed on chemo [TS]

  Goldman Goldman was like an outside guy [TS]

  who was a fan but he's now consulting [TS]

  producer i think they formalize the [TS]

  relationship with him too well so that [TS]

  is mainly this to you know what's pink [TS]

  near and women or there's your show [TS]

  running the show runners who write you [TS]

  know the vast majority of them [TS]

  yeah I you usually end up that's how it [TS]

  goes you know people go in and out too [TS]

  well it's just it's much less of a and [TS]

  an apology right i mean that doctor who [TS]

  for all of its story arc that they're [TS]

  trying to build into it is essentially [TS]

  an anthology series with with recurring [TS]

  characters which is a great thing about [TS]

  it and the x-files was so stand alone [TS]

  especially early on that it was almost [TS]

  like that it was like the twilight zone [TS]

  with a couple of recurring characters [TS]

  who are the people who investigate the [TS]

  twilight zone [TS]

  the thing that happened right and and I [TS]

  think it's much more conducive to having [TS]

  that you know [TS]

  director/writer parachute in and do an [TS]

  episode and then take off than something [TS]

  like fringe it's the downside of having [TS]

  that kind of nice tights serialization [TS]

  is that is how do you fit some you know [TS]

  somebody script and even Neil game and [TS]

  had to rewrite his script for Doctor Who [TS]

  a bunch of times because they kept [TS]

  moving it in different season to season [TS]

  you keep having babies give you like [TS]

  three points like here's the plot points [TS]

  you have to do for the ark story and yet [TS]

  within those bounds feel free to do [TS]

  anything at some point someone has to [TS]

  slide open a little thing you see a [TS]

  woman with the eye patch but other than [TS]

  that just go up [TS]

  yes i was i was shocked when I like [TS]

  killer episode of fringe right very [TS]

  strange for the eyepatch lady appeared [TS]

  in the future for it but they should [TS]

  have to have a cameo on fringe where [TS]

  Rory comes in from the side and gets [TS]

  killed off and also I just a blue box [TS]

  appearing off to the side and one of his [TS]

  I have a dream that uh that Arthur [TS]

  Darvill in the future will appear in [TS]

  various other shows and be killed [TS]

  horribly just for yeah I for fun but [TS]

  this is not even the right body can [TS]

  totally not the right podcast so always [TS]

  this so all these podcasts are happening [TS]

  Simon all all in parallel universes so [TS]

  all in all all in all despite the fact [TS]

  that we kind of Baghdad's I still [TS]

  enjoyed the show season this do you [TS]

  think this was a successful Cincinnatus [TS]

  i think i was i think i mean i would [TS]

  argue the hands-down the best season of [TS]

  the show so far [TS]

  I mean I feel like it really it's one of [TS]

  the few shows on television I feel like [TS]

  a torch was another good one kind of a [TS]

  similar show in some ways improved every [TS]

  season like to the point where it's like [TS]

  yeah okay you're actually getting to a [TS]

  point or you're developing your [TS]

  characters into something that's [TS]

  interesting and I feel like hands down [TS]

  the third season of fringe has been the [TS]

  best so far and they keep doing [TS]

  different things so if you keep doing [TS]

  different things i'll keep watching this [TS]

  is that I don't get you know that if I [TS]

  get annoyed that they did something not [TS]

  as well as X Files which is pretty much [TS]

  everything they do like well so what [TS]

  watch next week we'll do something [TS]

  different you know you won't constantly [TS]

  be it's not the same thing over and over [TS]

  again it's not it's not CSI you know [TS]

  alternate universe it's not one of those [TS]

  cookie cutter shows it's not law and [TS]

  order you it's harder to get sick of [TS]

  even when they just do like its kind of [TS]

  mediocre not doing a great job but I [TS]

  want to see what they do next [TS]

  keep watching i don't like a notorious [TS]

  leonard nimoy wax impression that's okay [TS]

  it'll only happen for an episode of two [TS]

  and then you'll never speak of it again [TS]

  so right just like a child I like this [TS]

  baby plotline that way to episode you'll [TS]

  be fine yeah she had the baby 42 minutes [TS]

  amazing that's how we doing over here [TS]

  and then the next episode will be [TS]

  teenager and she'll be on the FBI you [TS]

  know friends division to the baby right [TS]

  alongside her the the give babies guns [TS]

  in this you know i think that i think it [TS]

  was a good season with you know I think [TS]

  I think it kind of had that sag toward [TS]

  the latter half before they get up for [TS]

  the finale a little bit but I loved also [TS]

  that they went back to the to the [TS]

  flashback episode they have another one [TS]

  where they'll be like a tease opening [TS]

  titles [TS]

  well yeah i love the the different [TS]

  titles which is also those two such a [TS]

  good job of making john noble look like [TS]

  20 years younger to it blows me away [TS]

  that he's like a plastic face I'm [TS]

  telling you you're right you're right [TS]

  there they have the red and the blue for [TS]

  the two different University of the gray [TS]

  one for the future and then they have [TS]

  the the the super eighties electronic [TS]

  synthesizer version with the with the [TS]

  ladies font and in the eighties [TS]

  technology and very ancient get all the [TS]

  words for each one to which i understand [TS]

  yeah saw the future one your idea there [TS]

  are only 2 c1 words are going to say are [TS]

  important in our future you know and it [TS]

  didn't see app store it in any of the [TS]

  words with me something what that means [TS]

  i would have been great like you [TS]

  biotechnology absolutely can't let I [TS]

  think future happen i think this show [TS]

  has more openings any other show that I [TS]

  want to except for maybe supernatural [TS]

  and that's my patented supernatural [TS]

  reference there for you I was going to [TS]

  start watching we showed and keeps [TS]

  referencing afraid that's my goal that [TS]

  is my goal but the eighties episodes [TS]

  agree because it's got that look around [TS]

  you if you haven't seen him look around [TS]

  you with that it's that nice faux [TS]

  eighties of yes we admit this is what [TS]

  the eighties were like it was very [TS]

  cheesy back then that's that's yeah the [TS]

  doogie howser theme music sounds kind of [TS]

  like that French music that you do [TS]

  that's right it's just like anything it [TS]

  was taking me to get my diver [TS]

  oh yeah 222222 yeah [TS]

  to what are the words for that one there [TS]

  tell you we got you we do I love him so [TS]

  dreamy the hair he will be P would be [TS]

  primary rate are you know he was the [TS]

  perfect fridge actually that's what the [TS]

  show needs you want to everyone like [TS]

  this i have to say like I i'm not i was [TS]

  not a regular watcher of stargate but [TS]

  every time I tuned in you know or cotton [TS]

  episode Richard Dean Anderson would [TS]

  inevitably make me crack up about [TS]

  something is just like he was just so [TS]

  good at like he's the guy right like [TS]

  he's the guy like aliens all right [TS]

  sure let's do this the big nope i would [TS]

  be great station at him as a regular [TS]

  come over yeah I don't think Richard Jim [TS]

  Anderson's gonna go back to Vancouver [TS]

  ever again but i think i did fringes [TS]

  feel a lot of children in New York no no [TS]

  no this is got those seven exteriors [TS]

  done boss so so here's the story [TS]

  this is probably nothing I wanted so I [TS]

  thought they found a bunch of new york [TS]

  on the first okay so here's the story [TS]

  yes so I later season the state of New [TS]

  York had a tax credit for for film [TS]

  productions and in in New York City and [TS]

  so they shot fringe set in boston but [TS]

  the shot it in Brooklyn actually and [TS]

  then as they're wrapping up the season [TS]

  the governor says we don't want to have [TS]

  money for hollywood productions in our [TS]

  state will cancel the tax credit and and [TS]

  so the producer friend said well we [TS]

  pretty much for knocking off The X Files [TS]

  anyway so we're gonna shoot in vancouver [TS]

  now so they shoot in Vancouver with but [TS]

  maybe an occasional exteriors at all [TS]

  right i am seeing the whole cycle they [TS]

  felt all the Boston xterra since season [TS]

  one and just keep reusing them [TS]

  incidentally yes as John i can tell you [TS]

  the Boston exteriors are often hilarious [TS]

  actually almost anything to do with [TS]

  either the geography is not bad likely [TS]

  they've got a map but my favorite [TS]

  episode by episode remain my favorite [TS]

  episode ever remains when one of the [TS]

  characters refers to the city of welcome [TS]

  and I just was like why [TS]

  you don't have a single person on your [TS]

  shop staff who knows that's not how it's [TS]

  pronounced to pronounce waltham well [TS]

  that's totally different [TS]

  it's not welcome its waltham totally [TS]

  different sound it sounds wrong with the [TS]

  people who live here and it feels like [TS]

  you know that might immediately be like [TS]

  show with that much money you think it's [TS]

  been two seconds to get a fact-checker [TS]

  to say remember sitting must have known [TS]

  that would be like saying oh yeah it's [TS]

  out in war sister that in you know in [TS]

  Star Trek for their they're standing on [TS]

  the on the Oakland side of the bay [TS]

  bridge saying if we could only get to [TS]

  alameda which is basically where they're [TS]

  standing together some was someone was [TS]

  buying star trek for who was it was a [TS]

  trend someone was putting down star trek [TS]

  for in the episode which is searching [TS]

  for is great it's not mean I brought it [TS]

  up you brought it up [TS]

  no it's great i know i'm trying to think [TS]

  of your was like and I was gonna I was [TS]

  gonna also throughout my other favorite [TS]

  Boston related thing which in the first [TS]

  season the Reds acha know the the first [TS]

  loser friends there's an episode in [TS]

  French where they talk about we have to [TS]

  catch the suspect he sets we spotted at [TS]

  south station and they show this like [TS]

  exterior shot like this cute little [TS]

  train depot looking like quaint little [TS]

  crate train depot and I'm staring at [TS]

  this going [TS]

  what they didn't even like they could [TS]

  have gotten exteriors I mean south [TS]

  station is a pretty big state shouldn't [TS]

  go inside though it was bigger on the [TS]

  inside i think they've shown think [TS]

  seeing this house party internal state [TS]

  of grand central station not actual yeah [TS]

  it's not quite as large as grand central [TS]

  station but it's more along that wine [TS]

  then it is along the line of a cute [TS]

  little train depot submit nice that they [TS]

  actually attempt to set the show and [TS]

  Boston mo it is and i love that the [TS]

  federal building is also the Hancock [TS]

  building which is great and yeah I don't [TS]

  quite understand the location it's like [TS]

  we're picking the most distinctive [TS]

  looking building in like you've only got [TS]

  two tall buildings whole damn podunk [TS]

  city or even though the Hancock building [TS]

  is the federal building it's not the [TS]

  traditional visually way too old [TS]

  that's the massive diarrhea the [TS]

  potential be the will be the sixties [TS]

  when they go back to the sixties exactly [TS]

  yeah well you're going to the seventies [TS]

  for the dharma initiative and they have [TS]

  I i do i think there was an episode with [TS]

  a serial killer in somerville which made [TS]

  me nervous [TS]

  yes I was worried for you but there are [TS]

  0 summer I sure here [TS]

  thanks feel much better now hey there [TS]

  was an episode where they mention Newton [TS]

  to ya at the evidence that places they [TS]

  show just there's certain things about a [TS]

  city that are iconic you shouldn't show [TS]

  them what you're going to do them like [TS]

  they show trains that are not MBTA [TS]

  trains and the trains in Boston look a [TS]

  particular way it's like New York City [TS]

  subways look one way [TS]

  MBDA trains look very different and you [TS]

  can't mix them because it's just [TS]

  off-putting [TS]

  I meant to ask you things you just liked [TS]

  about fringe but generally positive it's [TS]

  nice i wouldn't say that I complaints [TS]

  about it it's just like yeah you want [TS]

  yogurt [TS]

  it's not it's you know it's there it's [TS]

  there he keeps moving you and you keep [TS]

  watching it so basically what you're [TS]

  selling literally again i've just signed [TS]

  off and we're going to come back to this [TS]

  but what you're saying about about [TS]

  fringe is that you may not always liked [TS]

  it but it's like like a boxing match it [TS]

  keeps kind of dodging so you can't get [TS]

  really get a beat on it it might you [TS]

  know everyone's gonna sighs about it's [TS]

  just it's it's inoffensive notice i [TS]

  think it's i think i agree i I don't [TS]

  think it's a no it's a plus level kind [TS]

  of show at all but that it's a you know [TS]

  it's a kind of a fun ride and they have [TS]

  had their are you know some things in [TS]

  that story arc that are better just a [TS]

  lot of fun to watch the twists and turns [TS]

  but it's the same time story ID is not [TS]

  very well executed [TS]

  yeah it makes me miss lost doesn't all [TS]

  the shows make you miss lost a little [TS]

  bit yeah [TS]

  for all its warts yeah yeah I I agree I [TS]

  agree I I like fringes ambition on one [TS]

  level on a story level that reminds me [TS]

  of lost a little bit lost had so many [TS]

  other things going for it in terms of [TS]

  execution and acting and characters and [TS]

  I'm not looking forward to anything the [TS]

  way I look forward to like for example [TS]

  the good early middle part of battlestar [TS]

  or the the next episode of lost I would [TS]

  look forward to those i like that is the [TS]

  battles are the good early middle part [TS]

  because that means of my feeling is that [TS]

  there were you always like that [TS]

  so that are pretty sweet Africa episodes [TS]

  know you know my fear about lost is that [TS]

  my dad always used to talk about how he [TS]

  loved the Rockford Files and then when [TS]

  it went off the air there wasn't really [TS]

  anything good on TV after that and I [TS]

  fear that that I'm gonna do that now I'm [TS]

  gonna be like yeah well you know lost [TS]

  one of their always be something else [TS]

  like visit with me that was the X that [TS]

  was you know that was moonlighting that [TS]

  was the x-files that wasn't as always [TS]

  some show that's that's you know steals [TS]

  your heart but there's always another [TS]

  one that comes along alright but until [TS]

  French returns or we decide to talk [TS]

  about some other show i would like to [TS]

  thank my guess [TS]

  dan more'n thank you thank you you're [TS]

  welcome and John siracusa thank you in a [TS]

  pleasure [TS]

  yes a pleasure as always but until next [TS]

  time this is jason l for John siracusa [TS]

  and dan morgan for the incomparable [TS]

  goodnight [TS]

  [Music] [TS]