0:00:02the incomparable number 320 a November
0:00:11welcome back everybody to the
0:00:12uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Snell
0:00:14we are going to do an unusual thing semi
0:00:16unusual thing for the uncomfortable
0:00:18which is talk about a movie that is in
0:00:19theaters now as we record this it is
0:00:22November 2016 and a film released in
0:00:26this very month is on our agenda we are
0:00:30going to talk about a rival directed by
0:00:34Denny Villeneuve and starring Amy Adams
0:00:38and jeremy renner along with forest
0:00:39whitaker and some other interesting
0:00:41people based on the ted chang story
0:00:44story of your life which I i should i
0:00:47should look up we discussed it that
0:00:50story and his entire collection in in an
0:00:53early episode of the incomparable
0:00:55episode number 20 nope 3232 you can go
0:00:59back to number 32 and here past us talk
0:01:02about that
0:01:04joining me to talk about arrival are
0:01:07these three lovely people lean sims
0:01:09hello hello
0:01:11it's good to have you here thank you i'm
0:01:13excited to talk about this amazing movie
0:01:16I loved spoilers John siracusa is also
0:01:20here is was will be something like that
0:01:23hi John
0:01:23yeah it's kinda seems like I've always
0:01:25been here and yet I haven't arrived yet
0:01:27Glenn fleischmann was joining us and
0:01:31always joins us hi Glenn
0:01:34hi I can't tell you how hard it was
0:01:36we're talking about the story is a few
0:01:37years ago do not mention this episode
0:01:38but i did it i pulled it off
0:01:40that's good that's good heptapod be and
0:01:43of course I don't know why of course he
0:01:45saw the movie and I want to talk about
0:01:47its just oh hi Joe
0:01:49hello you were one of the motivators for
0:01:51me to finally pull the trigger on on
0:01:53this because you're like I have things I
0:01:55would like to say I'm like alright so do
0:01:56I let's do it let's make it happen our
0:01:58friend Erica and sign can't be here
0:02:00because she's traveling we're recording
0:02:01this just before Thanksgiving and she's
0:02:03traveling to the United States for
0:02:04thanksgiving but but out at a key moment
0:02:07we will interject something that she
0:02:09wanted to make known about goal this
0:02:11film so that's exciting
0:02:13everybody stay tuned stay tuned for that
0:02:15it's a it's a good officer is actually
0:02:17the first review of it i read excellent
0:02:19very similar observation and it's very
0:02:20good
0:02:21so this is a movie like a so many about
0:02:24aliens appearing on earth and you can
0:02:28probably guess what will happen next and
0:02:31pretty much none of those things happen
0:02:34i think that's that's my opening
0:02:36statement is one of the I mean I know
0:02:37what was going to happen because i read
0:02:39the short story five years ago but i
0:02:41really enjoy how it's on one level it's
0:02:46like 50 other movies and yet when you
0:02:49get a little of that level it is not
0:02:51like very many other movies at all
0:02:53I i really like that about it what do
0:02:55you all what did you all do you all
0:02:57think about the the concept of this of
0:02:59this movie the basic concept but i'm a
0:03:01huge fan up the short story i'd say the
0:03:04story is which I reread after seeing the
0:03:07film I don't want to spoil my memory
0:03:09that gets into the home phone itself i
0:03:11don't remember too well when I was about
0:03:13to see and it's a story that I think
0:03:16about all the time like I would say not
0:03:19a month goes by that the story doesn't
0:03:20pop up my thoughts in some ways are
0:03:22reminded by it over the many years since
0:03:24i first read it because it it has this
0:03:29residence to me about especially since
0:03:31becoming a parent because I think
0:03:33there's something deep in a story of
0:03:36your life about parenthood but also it's
0:03:41a rollicking sci-fi story that has
0:03:42really interesting elements that are
0:03:43almost unique to the story that you
0:03:46almost don't see in the whole of science
0:03:48fiction which is kinda Ted Chang thing
0:03:50that he said he does so many stories
0:03:52that are almost three generous you don't
0:03:55you know you're like how I rented
0:03:56anywhere else like no no not exactly so
0:03:59watching in the movie i had that
0:04:00medicine sation of kind of knowing what
0:04:03the whole movie is going to be about
0:04:04which is perfect for this film but not
0:04:06really knowing what I was what I was
0:04:10about to see so I had that overlay on it
0:04:13as well I went into this i knew nothing
0:04:16about it I hadn't read the short story I
0:04:18don't even know if I knew there was a
0:04:19short story I hadn't seen a trailer and
0:04:22I just had a bunch of friends who saw it
0:04:24more like wow that was astounding as so
0:04:28I one of them being you Jason text my
0:04:32husband from lake in the middle of my
0:04:34class that i was teaching was like it
0:04:36you can see the movie tonight
0:04:37and so we went I and i loved it so much
0:04:43there's so much that is extremely well
0:04:45done and I i do have some quibbles but
0:04:48by and large the the entire thing I
0:04:52thought was really really beautiful and
0:04:55both from lake at a cinematic mood
0:04:58setting standpoint and I thought amy
0:05:02adams was absolutely amazing she did
0:05:05such a great job in that role and I felt
0:05:08a little betrayed that I said jeremy
0:05:10renner movie but I gotta ask that and I
0:05:14i really loved it like I walked out of
0:05:16there my husband we do a rating system
0:05:18when we see movies or whatever and he
0:05:20was like okay so how many stars and I
0:05:21was like this is a solid like four and a
0:05:23half stars movie for me it is one of the
0:05:25best movies i've seen in a long time and
0:05:29he's wrong he gave it three and a half
0:05:31but it wasn't the best movies that i
0:05:33have seen and we're gonna have you said
0:05:35he trashed three-and-a-half is not
0:05:37trashing it
0:05:38he no no he didn't trash it but he
0:05:42didn't love it on the level that i did
0:05:45and i think part of that is some of the
0:05:48stuff that Erica wanted to bring up that
0:05:49will talk about after the spoiler home
0:05:51porn goes off so earn and but yeah I
0:05:54think from a gender perspective from
0:05:56seeing people represented in movies who
0:05:58are like me this did better than any
0:06:00movie that I've seen in maybe ever and
0:06:03but we'll talk about that later
0:06:04I just learned that there will be a
0:06:06spoiler horn coming up so i will pilot
0:06:09the ship accordingly Joe do you have any
0:06:11initial thoughts that you want to share
0:06:12about arrival I like a clean i had not
0:06:16read the short story and if I ever
0:06:18listened to the comfortable episode
0:06:20about it i completely forgot which is
0:06:21how i do most of the book episodes and
0:06:23then I usually remember that i wanted to
0:06:26read something based on what you had
0:06:27talked about and eventually get around
0:06:29to it
0:06:29we call that the modified McNulty rule
0:06:31which is a few of you you for even
0:06:33forget about listening to podcast about
0:06:35books you might read yeah and it's so it
0:06:37worked it worked out okay in terms of I
0:06:39like the movie but now i have tried to
0:06:40go back and read the book I didn't
0:06:42manage before this podcast though and I
0:06:45know going into it that the two are not
0:06:48directly related in enough of a way that
0:06:50would seriously impact my movie-going
0:06:53experience so i'm a i'm kind of a happy
0:06:57that I did get the the fresh take on it
0:06:59I wasn't worried about any sort of
0:07:02divergence from from the plot of the
0:07:04book and I I should specify it's not
0:07:06even a book it's a short stories about
0:07:0770 pages long in in a collection of
0:07:09short stories called stories of your
0:07:10life and others but the actual story
0:07:12story of your life is about 70 pages
0:07:14long
0:07:14it's not exciting but not quite a
0:07:16novella right it's like yeah maybe it's
0:07:17a short novella is its short story
0:07:19feeling
0:07:20yeah i just started with the beginning
0:07:22of the book in there it's like some
0:07:24Babylon tower thing
0:07:25oh yeah that's that's a pretty good
0:07:26story but they're not related you don't
0:07:27you don't have to read them anymore but
0:07:29I like that one too that was weird is it
0:07:31he's a good writer like just wanted to
0:07:32get some context did her the will get
0:07:35done but still but now I i like the
0:07:38execution of this movie like being said
0:07:40I do have some quibbles with it a
0:07:42particularly in terms of execution of
0:07:45some hair or something um ok
0:07:47yeah but the overall i have really
0:07:51positive feelings about about what I saw
0:07:53and I think part of that is the film's
0:07:56optimistic a tone that it sets in spite
0:08:02of a certain bittersweet moments that
0:08:04you might have in your life so i really
0:08:06look forward to discussing that all
0:08:09right today so I'm it's like I'm drawing
0:08:11opening statements out of people who
0:08:13have not John you have some initial
0:08:14thoughts before we blow the spoiler horn
0:08:16I guess I'm the third one who also
0:08:18didn't read the short story and may or
0:08:20may not have listened to the incompetent
0:08:22episode about and i'm pretty sure i did
0:08:23but i think like it wasn't one of those
0:08:25ones where you you talk about a lot of
0:08:27things and I think I may be managed to
0:08:28talk about this story without actually
0:08:30spoiling it because I I think that's
0:08:32probably about it
0:08:33yeah i think we talked about the flavor
0:08:34of the shape of it yeah yeah i didn't i
0:08:36didn't know how it was gonna turn out
0:08:37but it's not like I was watching oh yeah
0:08:39I kind of know this is gonna turn out
0:08:40like i didn't i didn't had no memory of
0:08:42it at all and I and likely not mostly
0:08:46went to it based on Jason's raves it and
0:08:50a couple of the people said good things
0:08:51about to but you were raving about him
0:08:52like ah right well then I guess what we
0:08:54took the whole family because I figured
0:08:56what the heck
0:08:56although my daughter was bored by it but
0:08:59yeah I i we didn't take the kids because
0:09:02i figured that they would probably
0:09:04keyboard yeah it's a little slow but
0:09:06anyway I'm I i had seen the trailers a
0:09:08little bit of the trailers I had avoided
0:09:10any spoilers that it wasn't spoiled for
0:09:12this movie and and I wanted to see it
0:09:14kind of the same way I see a lot of
0:09:15movies where I feel like I want to
0:09:17support the kind of movie I like to see
0:09:19made and even if I didn't like this
0:09:22movie at all like well it's one of those
0:09:24kind of seems like serious
0:09:27character-driven sci-fi stories and I
0:09:29more I wish there was more of those like
0:09:31it doesn't always have to be you know a
0:09:32Marvel movie are you blowing up aliens
0:09:34or even like a space opera star wars
0:09:36like you know just playing outside
0:09:37families just not enough that's what the
0:09:38reason I see oblivion even though it's
0:09:40not great you know just like i watch i
0:09:42watch almost anything that promises to
0:09:44be a semi-serious sci-fi movie and I
0:09:46thought this movie was executed in an
0:09:49interesting way and told the story that
0:09:53I hadn't seen you know told in movies
0:09:55that often i think i like they're
0:09:58probably less than everybody else's
0:10:00opinion ever heard so far but i totally
0:10:03want there to be more movies like this
0:10:05and I appreciate a lot of things about
0:10:06this movie is just it the story in the
0:10:09end doesn't hold together for me but
0:10:12just don't I ask you one question about
0:10:14the film which is if you had this
0:10:16reaction which was that the depiction of
0:10:18like setting stuff up in a tent and the
0:10:21kind of stuff that computers were doing
0:10:22seemed actually okay like it
0:10:26it struck me as not exaggerating the
0:10:28potential even though we can tell it's
0:10:30maybe slightly in the future I'm not
0:10:31sure maybe tiny bit that it felt
0:10:34realistic and earthy that was that's the
0:10:36least of my concerns like this point i'm
0:10:38so so willing to you know they it was
0:10:41beneath the level of my concern if i can
0:10:43let you have to really be egregiously
0:10:45terrible at showing technology from you
0:10:48to notice at this point and they
0:10:49everything was fine and notice the
0:10:51little bit of the idea of like the
0:10:53beautiful design graphics showing when
0:10:55people are the countries are
0:10:56disconnected as a as a movie isn't the
0:10:59jumped out a little bit i have no that's
0:11:01not part of what I the problems i
0:11:03haven't I can't really talk about
0:11:04spoiling I only bring it up because the
0:11:06I feel like there's also some
0:11:07science-fiction movies are spoiled for
0:11:09me now because I feel like some of the
0:11:10fundamental stuff they're showing not
0:11:12just the technology but the kind of
0:11:14interaction what things are expected to
0:11:15do break for me
0:11:17so much i can't get over the suspension
0:11:18of disbelief there's too much and radium
0:11:20without enough story underneath it in
0:11:22this case I felt like that they depicted
0:11:24technology realistically and very
0:11:26plainly in the middle of what was a very
0:11:28technologically sophisticated thing
0:11:30happening and that to me maybe know the
0:11:32more I felt more real to meet and feels
0:11:33distant you had a light touch with all
0:11:36that stuff like they weren't the entire
0:11:38movie had a light touch which I
0:11:39appreciated but they weren't going to
0:11:41tell that the events that took place uh
0:11:45and very often were like oh I've seen it
0:11:47seen like this in 55 movies but they
0:11:50weren't shown the way they're normally
0:11:53shown and the things they would you
0:11:54would expect them to do well on there
0:11:56like actually that's not what we really
0:11:58care about this movie I mean the whole
0:11:59the opening of the movies is a great
0:12:01tell because it doesn't open with you
0:12:03know
0:12:03ominous throwing and pictures of space
0:12:06and aliens like it'sit's a human story
0:12:09starts with it with the our main
0:12:11character narrating and it's about her
0:12:13for the entire movie essentially and she
0:12:15she tells a story and it like it starts
0:12:18the same way you can imagine like a
0:12:20family drama starting or something you
0:12:23know what I mean like that and that
0:12:24that's how the movie plays throughout
0:12:26and it's almost almost incidental that
0:12:28there's this alien syfy angle to it
0:12:30really is a character-driven story and
0:12:32you know except this is I would love to
0:12:34see more movies like this because i
0:12:35think this is a great combination of you
0:12:38know serious character-driven story with
0:12:41a sci-fi setting thrown in shot in an
0:12:44interesting way
0:12:45so before we before we dive into
0:12:47spoilers are a couple of the topics that
0:12:48I wanted to at least mention that i
0:12:49think are our kind of free of the plot
0:12:51of this movie and it's this this movie
0:12:53has some plot i don't know if i want to
0:12:56say twist but it has some surprises
0:12:57throughout that I think it's better I
0:13:01think aliens suggestion that we use the
0:13:03spoiler horn is is is a good one
0:13:05although it one of the things i will say
0:13:06now is it
0:13:08I don't feel like this is a puzzle box
0:13:09movie where the goal is to solve the
0:13:11puzzle or be surprised by the puzzle i
0:13:13think it's in it enjoyable story all the
0:13:16way through even though there are
0:13:17surprises as it goes but i really wanted
0:13:20to bring up i want to bring up the eye
0:13:22can see direction i could say
0:13:24cinematography it this i think this
0:13:27movie looks really good and then also
0:13:30the muse
0:13:30sick it sounds really good just on those
0:13:33levels i think the pacing of it the way
0:13:36it's shot especially a lot of this takes
0:13:38place out in the field
0:13:40I mean there's like there's a there's a
0:13:41house on a lake and there's a which is
0:13:44beautiful but there's this field in
0:13:45Montana or Wyoming or wherever they're
0:13:47out out and on the plains there's this
0:13:49field with a big spaceship hovering over
0:13:53it sort of and it's just slow camera
0:13:57movements and beautiful beautifully shot
0:14:00and I just think it's a
0:14:02beautiful-looking movie and a very
0:14:03restrained movie and I talking about
0:14:08john-john saying i wanna i wanna have
0:14:10more movies like this there are so many
0:14:13especially genre movies that are not
0:14:15restrained and this is a very restrained
0:14:17movie you can see the sort of discipline
0:14:20we're going to take our time we're going
0:14:22to move slow
0:14:23we're not going to push this too fast
0:14:25and I really like really liked all of
0:14:27that in the look and the feel of it i'm
0:14:29so glad you said to restring these I was
0:14:30thinking restraint was the thing is it's
0:14:32quiet in spots they have their time the
0:14:35alien ships are not fancy
0:14:36we don't know anything about how they
0:14:38work really it's not important
0:14:40it reminds me of some 1960 sci-fi films
0:14:43are some really elaborate stuff in the
0:14:44sixties it goes way over the top of
0:14:46course but then there's a few quieter
0:14:48films that are very spare and restrained
0:14:51some avant-garde movies that aren't even
0:14:52sci-fi but they're slightly magical
0:14:54realistic where things happen unfold in
0:14:57a way that doesn't seem entirely linear
0:14:59I was thinking particularly of the
0:15:01original solaris which is more active
0:15:03and has more kind of a sci-fi vibe to it
0:15:06and this film does in this bill has
0:15:08aliens in it but it has moments in
0:15:10solaris there's just this kind of
0:15:11repetitive thing or quietness or someone
0:15:14staring and it has more power because
0:15:16it's not genetic it's wonderful and I
0:15:19want to try some similarities i guess to
0:15:21contact if people are you know thinking
0:15:23about ya dip it was much more
0:15:26conventional this so much more democracy
0:15:28yeah but it's it's still the kind of
0:15:33story they're trying to tell about a
0:15:34person and their interaction with
0:15:36something beyond it's not it's not as a
0:15:40space opera ask it took it so seriously
0:15:44serious on by i mean i think they
0:15:46diverge widely at in terms of how much
0:15:49they care about character versus how
0:15:50much they care about the science but
0:15:52both of them i would file as serious
0:15:55sci-fi movies made essentially for
0:15:58adults and it's just that I I you know I
0:16:01everyone contact is so much more
0:16:02conventional in terms of just how
0:16:05everything is shot how everything is lit
0:16:08the the events to take place the music
0:16:11everything about it this is arrivals
0:16:13almost more like an arthouse movie
0:16:16compared to contact
0:16:17yeah but they they are in terms of most
0:16:20what movie is this movie's most like I
0:16:23that's probably what I would say is
0:16:25contact and the only other alternative I
0:16:28could I could come up with is probably a
0:16:30christopher nolan movie like memento or
0:16:34the prestige which are which are very
0:16:36different movies and yet there's
0:16:37something about the vibe of this that
0:16:39reminded me of some of those the non bad
0:16:41man Christopher Nolan movies uh I don't
0:16:44know that those the best ones that I
0:16:46could come up with but I think contact
0:16:47is probably the the most comparable ha
0:16:49whoo yeah not not in terms of execution
0:16:52of no no ya didn't watch solaris good i
0:16:55think that was a good comparison the
0:16:57original solaris no it's just I yeah I
0:16:59find it i find that kind of beautiful
0:17:00and and gentlemen a lot of ways that you
0:17:02know so many movies assault us and it's
0:17:04nice to feel like again this is a like
0:17:07that i think that's what John is getting
0:17:09out this is this is a sci-fi movie for
0:17:10adults like it is it is defiantly for
0:17:13adults it's not for bring the whole
0:17:15family and I think even though you can I
0:17:17mean there's not many other than some
0:17:19language you it's fine i just think kids
0:17:20will be kinda bored and I think
0:17:21teenagers will probably be bored bored
0:17:23by 2 because it's not like single and
0:17:25make it an older kid can get wrapped up
0:17:27in it because it's one of those movies
0:17:28where like it's slow but if you get
0:17:30caught up in it that slowness that's
0:17:32tension that's like you're looking at
0:17:34every you have enough times there like
0:17:36the little rough texture on the edge of
0:17:37the little tunnel going up into the ship
0:17:39you haven't had time to think about
0:17:40these things and to dwell on them and
0:17:42and to look at the mist covering the
0:17:44field and like I feel like kind of like
0:17:46I said like jaws but kind of like it a
0:17:48lot of the older movies from decades
0:17:51past where they were slow paced and they
0:17:53don't grab you it's just like a boring
0:17:54movie but they do grab you that slow
0:17:56pace is like you just feel like you're
0:17:57being pulled along by string through the
0:17:58whole movie you just you just can't wait
0:18:00to see it unfold
0:18:01I've got another comp by the way I'm
0:18:03gonna throw in here the slowness and
0:18:04restrain this actually reminded me of
0:18:06unbreakable a little bit which is a
0:18:07movie i love oh yeah there's this
0:18:09definitely Shyamalan anything here
0:18:11yeah i'm yeah looks good the good kind
0:18:13of a good point
0:18:14not the kind where there's an elevator
0:18:15that's the devil but I you said you
0:18:17didn't think this was a puzzle box movie
0:18:19and I agree it's not you're not trying
0:18:20to like figure it out but I feel like to
0:18:23the turn in this movie I wouldn't call
0:18:24the twist that were called the turn
0:18:25yeah the turn in this movie because i
0:18:27didn't know anything about the short
0:18:28story i really appreciate it because i
0:18:30felt like it kind of like blossomed as I
0:18:34realize what they were doing right in a
0:18:36pleasant way I in a way that made me
0:18:40appreciate that you think that was the
0:18:41high point of the movie for me when I
0:18:43when I realized what they were doing
0:18:44like are you know around the turn part
0:18:46kind of want a little bit downhill after
0:18:48that
0:18:48but when I realized what they were doing
0:18:50timeline wise kind of like another thing
0:18:52that that's another piece of media that
0:18:55we won't talk about because we want to
0:18:56spoil that and this particular podcast I
0:19:00I appreciate that unlike a big smile
0:19:02came across my face and like very well
0:19:05done because I need you know just
0:19:06ripples backwards and you realize with
0:19:08the hoping of the movie and what they
0:19:09were getting at was like good job i felt
0:19:12like giving them a little bit of
0:19:13applause there and that's a pleasant
0:19:15sensation better than the haha didn't
0:19:17you know the twist was whatever like it
0:19:19was totally even even the twist was
0:19:21gentle twist was a turn
0:19:23yeah no you're right this does uh the
0:19:25film does exactly what the story doesn't
0:19:27that's one of the qualities that
0:19:28captures which we can talk about more
0:19:29for the spoiler but it diffuses what you
0:19:32learn sort of backwards and forward in
0:19:35time so it actually rebuild in your mind
0:19:38what you think you've just read or seen
0:19:39and the film did it i want to say almost
0:19:42perfectly they had a structured
0:19:44differently in the in the story some of
0:19:46the stuff comes later they don't shows
0:19:48what that he doesn't want to them i
0:19:49think give you too much of the
0:19:50information but you have to present
0:19:52visually you have to keep people in
0:19:54because otherwise it would be
0:19:55sudden twist and it wouldn't make sense
0:19:56so the way they kind of rippled it in
0:19:58the film i think was the perfect
0:20:01cinematic analog to what the story
0:20:04unfolded as alright I am going to now
0:20:06play a a transcript of the alien
0:20:10language as heard in the movie arrival
0:20:12no it's actually it's just the spoiler
0:20:14horn but they're similar here it is
0:20:16[Music]
0:20:19ok whoo boy that you right up oh yeah
0:20:23it's it makes a circle with any way you
0:20:26see the spoiler horn so i can understand
0:20:28what this one's trying to say
0:20:29yeah okay all all spoilers have been
0:20:32cleared now we can now talk about what
0:20:35happened what happens in this movie and
0:20:38you know it's the thing knowing having
0:20:42read the story the very beginning of the
0:20:45movie i actually said this to Lauren
0:20:47when we were walking out to the car at
0:20:48the end i said it's there in the first
0:20:51line like the first line of the movie is
0:20:53I used to think that your story began
0:20:55here but now I'm not so sure
0:20:57right so it sits there from the
0:21:00beginning and what a move
0:21:02I mean I guess up like maybe up to come
0:21:05to hear want to move to have the first
0:21:08part of this movie it's okay we're gonna
0:21:10go see a movie about aliens and it's no
0:21:12it's actually about a mother caring for
0:21:13her dying child and then the child dies
0:21:15Wow okay that's that's where we start I
0:21:18was bawling to my friend of mine said
0:21:20she'd said I cried heavily three times
0:21:22during the film I was crying two minutes
0:21:24and I was like oh they already just
0:21:26totally got their hooks in me I was
0:21:28crying during the during the trailers
0:21:29plan to discover bad those movies aren't
0:21:33that bad oh you know it is it is well
0:21:36because what it sets it as the tone of
0:21:38the movie is you're watching a story of
0:21:41a woman who is trying to piece her life
0:21:43back together after a horrible tragedy
0:21:45which is not what the movie is that
0:21:48you're actually watching and it's it's
0:21:51interesting to me because there are a
0:21:53lot of and I don't know parallels isn't
0:21:56exactly the right word but there are
0:21:57things that i can very deeply relate to
0:21:59you i have several several sets of
0:22:02friends who have actually lost their
0:22:03daughters to childhood cancer and and i
0:22:06have been there and supported them
0:22:08through that and and I have been there
0:22:10in the aftermath of that and watching
0:22:12them do that work and so I was like oh
0:22:15wow ok and i also teach college classes
0:22:21and somehow watching her go to school
0:22:24and like having this this level of
0:22:26empathy for her is she's like I think
0:22:29you know we're trying trying to teach
0:22:31students and move on with her life
0:22:33and you know go home and talk with her
0:22:36mom and like all of the stuff I'm like
0:22:37you know how how does like feel after
0:22:41that you know from from her perspective
0:22:43and so I was like I can't imagine
0:22:45teaching class you know after my
0:22:47daughter died and and in keeping it
0:22:49together and in teaching about languages
0:22:51and and how do you find your purpose in
0:22:54that and you know like all of those
0:22:55things so it was like immediately I was
0:22:58like oh wow this is right in the feels
0:23:00right in the feels right off the bat i
0:23:03also thought about but I was also
0:23:04thinking during that whole section where
0:23:06is the other parent for this child and
0:23:08it was like a first-time light is just
0:23:10bad movie making where they didn't cast
0:23:12that part it's not important and then
0:23:14like well no this is just more part of
0:23:15her very tragic story that she's been
0:23:17raising this girl alone and she asked to
0:23:19help this girl died alone like that you
0:23:21know that that's part of the tragedy
0:23:22evidence that and and I like the fact
0:23:24that my my questions and puzzling about
0:23:27that were nicely then logically answered
0:23:31later in the movie you know after the
0:23:32turn their addressed in the middle
0:23:34because at one point there's that scene
0:23:36where she's helping her daughter do her
0:23:38homework and says I just didn't like
0:23:40father it was science ask your father
0:23:43yeah that's not like he's out of the
0:23:44picture like yeah you know that you know
0:23:46that they split so hard that he's just
0:23:49didn't want to have anything to do with
0:23:50the daughter anymore or you know like
0:23:53yeah any day that that's that's that I
0:23:56where I consider the turn to have
0:23:58happened is probably way before the
0:24:00movie thinks it's revealing it because
0:24:02they did leave lots of clues right so i
0:24:04probably the pieces like right yeah
0:24:05exactly
0:24:07you know I mean and also law of
0:24:08conservation of characters and so on and
0:24:10so forth but I it doesn't matter where
0:24:12it occurs i think it was it was it was
0:24:13nice it was this is a sturdily
0:24:15constructed turn
0:24:17yeah that no matter where you get it is
0:24:19satisfying and and yea and all and it
0:24:23really helps that all those scenes work
0:24:26both before you know and they work after
0:24:28and it's not like they only work after
0:24:31or they may you know like it's just it's
0:24:33just good movie making you know i won't
0:24:35ask folks we have read the story I
0:24:37didn't even understand this alien until
0:24:38you just said it is one of the first
0:24:40things came up I was so wrapped up and
0:24:42seeing the story i love on screen and I
0:24:43was a niners to the time sequence
0:24:45because I dread it
0:24:46so the daughter we see her you know
0:24:47dying and then the mothers it's good no
0:24:50Louise is teaching I never thought about
0:24:52that as the emotional reaction of her
0:24:54daughter just died like the
0:24:55chronological sequence and she's back
0:24:58teaching and this is why she looks sort
0:24:59of morose because I knew the order of
0:25:01things happening it never struck me
0:25:03until you decide and straight until you
0:25:04just said that
0:25:05yeah I met and how douchey process the
0:25:07arrival of aliens it's like you're all
0:25:09your thinking when you watch that scene
0:25:10it's all about that she's coping with
0:25:13this loss
0:25:13he's not actually what you're saying
0:25:14yeah because it's very traditionally it
0:25:17in terms of the mechanics of traditional
0:25:19movie making these would-be flashbacks
0:25:21because we haven't seen the movie yet so
0:25:23I that not only makes logical sense if
0:25:27you if you're not familiar with the
0:25:28story I and one of the other interesting
0:25:30things that they didn't use a flash
0:25:33forward flashbacks is that they she
0:25:36looks exactly the same
0:25:38they didn't do any aging makeup or the
0:25:41other touch-up work or anything
0:25:43she always looks like amy adams of the
0:25:46present throughout the entire film
0:25:48whenever she's in one of these altered
0:25:49time states and i think at first I
0:25:53wasn't sure why they chose to do that
0:25:55but then after you find out what the
0:25:57twist is it's like oh because if you saw
0:25:58an old Amy Adams with her child has been
0:26:02alive for 20-something years then it
0:26:04isn't was willing to accept it in the
0:26:06movie it made it seem like she was
0:26:07entertained but I don't they probably
0:26:08were careful with it that's the one part
0:26:10of this movie that probably doesn't read
0:26:12the same in both directions only because
0:26:14they're trying to not give anything away
0:26:17they're subtle but I had that same
0:26:19ecology age as well I mean I probably
0:26:21just put on less makeup and hit her
0:26:22crow's feet less well and maybe did a
0:26:24little touch-up on the hair but honestly
0:26:26you know various not as if you're going
0:26:27to change to a wrinkled old hag and 15
0:26:30years especially if you you know that I
0:26:33the only thing that the thing that
0:26:35struck me about this both isn't it's not
0:26:37a timeline question is the story of how
0:26:39she comes from a family that makes your
0:26:42independently wealthy because there's no
0:26:43way and a professor salary that you can
0:26:45have the house in the lac all by herself
0:26:47there's a lot of those fantasy movie as
0:26:49it was a beautiful house apparently the
0:26:51house when they when they went into the
0:26:53home and
0:26:54and Ryan you know what the hell of a
0:26:56place it isn't that the show is in case
0:26:58shot and came back I thought it was out
0:27:00here actually yeah it's like it's
0:27:02exactly like washing it looks like
0:27:03Washington I had that same thought I
0:27:05just assumed that she was in seattle and
0:27:06that was exhausted and open and since
0:27:09since the author is from seattle right
0:27:11doesn't change that from seeing exactly
0:27:13that is why do I assume that that's that
0:27:14was at least an homage to that if
0:27:16nothing else I think so I mean I think
0:27:17they set up the community in the college
0:27:19that she teaches at a community college
0:27:21what has that feeling of like a 1960s
0:27:23built Community College just the brick
0:27:26and whatever so lean this is the time
0:27:28where we should talk since since makeup
0:27:30and Amy Adams came up we should talk
0:27:31about this and it's something and like i
0:27:33said in the review that i read to which
0:27:35is Amy Adams look this is a movie Amy
0:27:37Adams is made up in this movie but she's
0:27:40not made up to be like glamorous
0:27:44glamorous yeah she's made up to be like
0:27:46a person living their life and that is
0:27:50not usually what happens when women are
0:27:54in movies
0:27:55yeah yeah and and I think as I said at
0:27:59the beginning I think that's part of why
0:28:00i love this movie so much as it's
0:28:02because and I mean there are a lot of
0:28:05ways that can relate to her but one of
0:28:07them is a I don't wear makeup everyday
0:28:10and some days I don't even brush my hair
0:28:12I work from home so and often work from
0:28:15home so you know it in there were times
0:28:18when it it looked like she had gone
0:28:21directly from her cot on site to the
0:28:25computer to you know they're the better
0:28:28no blueprints of of the language or
0:28:30whatever and and I loved that because at
0:28:33no point was she
0:28:36well okay one point she was an address
0:28:38to the nines with every hair in place
0:28:39right but the rest of the time she just
0:28:41looked normal and that's not something I
0:28:44get in movies you know we get hair is
0:28:47precisely in place and perfect you know
0:28:50whatever winged eyeliner i don't even
0:28:52really know what that means if you have
0:28:54things like that and so it was so
0:28:57refreshing to see someone look real to
0:29:01see a woman look real in a movie and not
0:29:04only that she looked real and she was
0:29:07respected
0:29:08yeah and not only was she respected she
0:29:11turned them away like she did not bow to
0:29:14the government you know too that was
0:29:16what does this rank colonel-general
0:29:17whatever he was her and all she did he
0:29:20she was like okay walk away I'm better
0:29:23you ask him this question you come back
0:29:24to me you will come back to me in and
0:29:27she was just honest you're strong and
0:29:29amazing and respected and real
0:29:32throughout the movie in a way that I
0:29:33don't know that I've ever seen
0:29:37can I ask you about there's a scene
0:29:38early on that I thought set the tone too
0:29:40is when they go into 10 and ian is
0:29:42introduced and she is not reduced unlike
0:29:45the colonel is doing that typical thing
0:29:46of these disrespecting woman that's not
0:29:48gonna be a plot point that he takes her
0:29:50to the other tenses she this is your
0:29:51team you're in charge and I went oh my
0:29:53god this is not what I was expecting
0:29:56I don't remember it wasn't set up in the
0:29:57story she is part of a party man charged
0:29:59but just the casual business casual miss
0:30:02of military leader like doing what was
0:30:04directed here in this is the team your
0:30:06part of boom
0:30:07Louise this your team these people
0:30:09working for you I had that moment she
0:30:11was like oh he's gonna say something
0:30:13weird to her and I'm gonna get mad and i
0:30:16did not i was i was world and I superly
0:30:19she just she did whatever the F she
0:30:21wanted
0:30:22I think she you know she saw the
0:30:24whiteboard she took the whiteboard in
0:30:25and was like this this is what I'm doing
0:30:27she and going to check off the hazmat
0:30:30suit in the caverns that she could
0:30:33communicate better without you no
0:30:35permission without vetting it with
0:30:36anybody she just did it and I i don't
0:30:40know i really love to seeing all of that
0:30:42it just and in a way that I can't really
0:30:46Express only to say that you know this
0:30:50is this is why representation in media
0:30:52matters why women need to see ourselves
0:30:55depicted why people of color need to see
0:30:58themselves in amazing roles so I've got
0:31:00two notes one is um I like as the movie
0:31:03progresses the the San Francisco
0:31:05Chronicle review by Peter Hartlaub said
0:31:07it literally looks like amy adams and
0:31:10jeremy renner just kinda like kept
0:31:13shooting and sleeping in their clothes
0:31:15and shoot and really it feels like
0:31:18they're there it you know so many movies
0:31:21can make it was like yeah I
0:31:22know that they're actually out there
0:31:23working around the clock and they've
0:31:25been there for weeks but there they
0:31:26totally got it together and they look
0:31:28beautiful and fashionable it's like nope
0:31:29they they look like they got thrown on a
0:31:32helicopter and put out in the middle of
0:31:34nowhere and are getting no sleep and
0:31:37they're trying to figure this out and it
0:31:38really works for the the idea that
0:31:40they're trying to work this problem and
0:31:41figure this out but they do look like
0:31:43they've been sleeping in their clothes
0:31:45and it's and it's good and it's
0:31:46effective and the other thing i want to
0:31:48say talk about forest whitaker for a
0:31:50second is the colonel i really like
0:31:52forest whitaker I mean force which is
0:31:53great but in this movie I really like
0:31:55him because it's very clear that his job
0:31:58is to be a conduit and he's not like we
0:32:01see in so many movies this like totally
0:32:03bullheaded military man who's gonna
0:32:06who's gonna say all you scientists you
0:32:08don't even know he he's very much like
0:32:10you need to explain it to me so that I
0:32:12can explain it to them because the the
0:32:15people I'm talking to don't hear you and
0:32:18I need to let you know i need to make
0:32:21this all work and that's his job is to
0:32:23be that conduit and he doesn't he pushes
0:32:25back on them but when he does it's for
0:32:27good reason and it generally is because
0:32:30he knows the politics up the chain and I
0:32:32really liked that felt like a much more
0:32:34realistic performance of a and a
0:32:38character in a role in this in this
0:32:40story and and you know forest whitaker
0:32:42did it really well and more importantly
0:32:43to Louise's whole story of her being
0:32:46plopped down in there whatever she comes
0:32:47in and you know she doesn't think she
0:32:49tries to be assertive with the deal
0:32:51being made for her and her competitor
0:32:53linguist or whatever everyone to
0:32:56eventually goes there she is you know
0:32:58nervous about what its gonna be like and
0:33:00she tries to assert herself but forest
0:33:03whitaker makes it clear that there are
0:33:04opposing forces here and so it's not
0:33:06like she comes in is just all of a
0:33:08sudden in charge of everybody and is you
0:33:10know it is it is a it is a nice balance
0:33:12like it's not as if the world lays down
0:33:14before her and merely because she is a
0:33:16sort of everything goes your way
0:33:17immediately there are challenges there
0:33:19are there other powers and charges she
0:33:22asked to deal with she has to be
0:33:24convincing to them she gets pushed back
0:33:26she doesn't get everything that she
0:33:28wants immediately it is a much more
0:33:29reasonable example of multiple people
0:33:35all trying to do that
0:33:36right thing with strong personalities
0:33:37and skills coming to an agreement and i
0:33:40would say like both this and with the
0:33:43women who are constantly in Regulus
0:33:45makeup sci-fi does both of these things
0:33:48better than many other genres because
0:33:49very often it involves multiple smart
0:33:53people trying to do the right thing
0:33:54working towards a common goal which is a
0:33:56nice thing to see you don't see a lot of
0:33:57other movies where they have to have
0:33:59like a villain all the time and not
0:34:02there are a lot of them but if of all
0:34:04the genres that are well-known sci-fi is
0:34:06more likely to it than others to have a
0:34:11woman character who is not there
0:34:13constantly made up all the time anyway
0:34:15there's not many examples but like that
0:34:17but I was trying to think of other
0:34:18characters that are like this
0:34:20women who are allowed to do a job and
0:34:21not constantly be glamorous women who
0:34:22are allowed to look damp and sweaty
0:34:25because they're there in a hot spaceship
0:34:27or they're on the the the fog ridden
0:34:29plains of Montana or whatever you've got
0:34:32ripley in the alien movies you've got a
0:34:35series of you know female marines and
0:34:37various future scenarios where it's not
0:34:40all about the glamour that's basically
0:34:41the only time they'll actresses to
0:34:43appear not you know that not look like
0:34:46they'd spent two hours in hair and
0:34:48makeup before they arrived and we go
0:34:50back to Jodie Foster in contact right
0:34:52right i mean she's got a ponytail right
0:34:54and she's running around and she's
0:34:56sleeping in our clothes and I I you know
0:34:58she's obviously I'm probably more made
0:35:00up the name e adams in this but i still
0:35:02think like you know it in these movies
0:35:04they still have a scene where the bank
0:35:06jodie foster gets get dressed up in the
0:35:09fancy dress for her one seen this one
0:35:10has the yeah meeting with the ambassador
0:35:12and there but fine like you you give
0:35:14them that but the rest of the time the
0:35:16because of the because of the settings
0:35:18like if you're going to have really
0:35:19running around the spaceship and she's
0:35:22not going to be wearing like you know
0:35:25Princess Leia outfit the whole time
0:35:26she's not she's not a princess she
0:35:27started working on the ship the ship is
0:35:29gross and it's filled with you know
0:35:31temperature fluctuations and and
0:35:34moisture and aliens the drip things on
0:35:35you and you know she's allowed to look
0:35:37like that for the whole movie and it's
0:35:38fine
0:35:39one of the moments where I really like
0:35:41for Amy Adams is when she
0:35:43is explaining the question that the
0:35:47general would like to start the colonel
0:35:49would like them to ask what they would
0:35:50like to get to anyone he doesn't feel
0:35:52like they're moving fast enough and she
0:35:53breaks it down in a really amazing way
0:35:58that died sex all the complexity of of
0:36:02the problem that is in front of them a
0:36:05takes up to something that looks so easy
0:36:07and presents you with every facet of of
0:36:11difficulty in communicating with these
0:36:13beings who have just started to refer to
0:36:15in terms of names so it's quite nice and
0:36:20it really it you reinforces her
0:36:23particular strengths in a way that none
0:36:28of the other characters in the film are
0:36:31able to provide even the scientists
0:36:33doesn't let me know Jeremy Renner
0:36:34doesn't understand really much of
0:36:36anything about communicating with the
0:36:38aliens he's what was your life like the
0:36:40piece like the bimbo in this movie I was
0:36:42jeremy renner there is just therefore i
0:36:44can do to help those who help us to be
0:36:45the science guy but he was so little
0:36:48help with the science so happy but they
0:36:50have a baby so you need a guy and really
0:36:54I'm not really had it especially
0:36:55interesting role reversal were nothing
0:36:57like the woman would be there just to be
0:36:58like every once in awhile say somethin
0:37:00to show ya no I'm really a science
0:37:01person but you know he was supposed to
0:37:03be on top in case they know they shoot a
0:37:05bunch of physics in the story there's
0:37:07there's a there's more of that they're
0:37:09not a team like that they just work you
0:37:11know it's a it's set up separately but i
0:37:13think they carried over that feeling
0:37:15into the movie without any of the actual
0:37:16like any other teaching us some physics
0:37:18as we go but we can't figure out how to
0:37:20talk about physics because their
0:37:21conception of physics is a totally
0:37:23different thing than ours and he owned
0:37:25the only thing you have the movies he
0:37:26had the he got the one in twelve
0:37:28pointing at the they put all the symbols
0:37:29up and he figured out the 112 fraction
0:37:31and that's essentially isn't his entire
0:37:33contribution he wasn't even particularly
0:37:35supportive of anybody just kind of came
0:37:38in and it's like sitting back and
0:37:39watching I mean he's a supporting
0:37:40character it's fine but it is an
0:37:42interesting reversal where normally the
0:37:44token woman would be the one who's there
0:37:46who has the supposed job and is allowed
0:37:48to demonstrate your skill for some
0:37:49simple thing but one could argue this is
0:37:52within the structure of the film the
0:37:53reason is there is because he was there
0:37:55yeah not
0:37:56because you know you're the only had to
0:37:57be there because you had to be there so
0:37:58they could fall in love at the trial
0:38:00that's just what I'm gonna have to do
0:38:01have important conversations like it i
0:38:02think that the most important role is
0:38:04like aside from the romantic thing is
0:38:06the bloody angle the two of them kind of
0:38:09come into this together
0:38:10yeah are kind of in over their heads
0:38:12together like a one of the more
0:38:14important scenes I feel like it as the
0:38:16turn was revealing itself was sitting
0:38:18out there just like away from the camp
0:38:19for a little bit and just talking and
0:38:22and you know talking / mild flirting
0:38:25colored by the weird situation saying
0:38:28like you know boy it must be handy to be
0:38:30an expert in communication with inches
0:38:32believe me you can end up alone even if
0:38:34you're an expert in which works in both
0:38:36directions because you're like oh yeah
0:38:38no she's alone because whatever whoever
0:38:40scientist has been frightening
0:38:42oversizing her husband signs at this
0:38:43point you wherever husband wasn't there
0:38:45when her daughter died earlier in the
0:38:46movie so boy she must be said but you
0:38:50know as we learned later she's also long
0:38:52before that so that statement works fine
0:38:54in both directions and it shows that
0:38:56they are you know that they have a
0:38:57connection yet so I uh I want to talk
0:39:00about the art direction a little bit
0:39:02before we talk about some more Pilate
0:39:04things and talk about like I know I
0:39:07mentioned some of this before the
0:39:07spoiler horn but like I like the weird
0:39:11texture of the spaceship
0:39:13I like the weird entryway into the
0:39:15spaceship that's an example where how do
0:39:17you take a 70-page story and you make it
0:39:18into a movie
0:39:19well one thing is you go through instead
0:39:22of into sentences explaining how you get
0:39:25into the spaceship you take the time to
0:39:28slowly drive out to the spaceship and
0:39:30get on the thing that's gonna lift you
0:39:31up to the place where the gravity
0:39:33changes and now you're going sideways
0:39:35and when you look back
0:39:38you're looking down and all of that
0:39:40right let's yell down the theater don't
0:39:42look back don't know there's a moment
0:39:44where somebody is a jeremy renner maybe
0:39:46he's like totally freaking out
0:39:48oh yeah and he looks back after he jumps
0:39:50it was like no no don't do that don't do
0:39:53that but i really liked it is
0:39:55atmospheric and it's one of those things
0:39:57where they could've skipped ahead right
0:39:59but the first time you go into the
0:40:01spaceship you're going in with them and
0:40:02it's it's like it's a weird rough like
0:40:05out like a lava rock or something and
0:40:07they've got they've jury-rigged this
0:40:09you know human tech to get you up the
0:40:12lifter to get you up and then the
0:40:13gravity gets weird and you know I liked
0:40:16all of that I thought that was all
0:40:17really clever and I enjoyed the fact
0:40:19that we took the time to set the mood of
0:40:21like entering this alien spaceship
0:40:24thingy i will say though I well I agree
0:40:27that afterwards I did think you know
0:40:30that's not an especially inviting way to
0:40:33talk to people
0:40:35hey you don't want any made the error
0:40:37the right so they could read it so much
0:40:40they made the beautiful hallway they
0:40:41sculpted it out they get everything the
0:40:43right height for humans you want them to
0:40:44have a lift to you know you want a
0:40:46ladder
0:40:46jeez you bring their own sister looks
0:40:48like intelligent tests show it's like
0:40:49putting your name on the paper at least
0:40:51they could do they came light-years to
0:40:53get there please do you go to bring a
0:40:54scissor lift
0:40:55I love the mechanism though because that
0:40:56was that thing where you're like as a
0:40:58sci-fi nerd you never see real sci-fi in
0:41:00enough movies you see stuff that's an
0:41:03approximation and simplification and the
0:41:05idea that the aliens just obviously have
0:41:08control over gravity they've got there
0:41:09hovering ships that are hovering in the
0:41:11air the way that bricks don't write to
0:41:13quote one beside us and and then they
0:41:15have the weird opening because it's just
0:41:16convenient because they just control
0:41:18gravity and the transition where the
0:41:21military guys have already mastered its
0:41:22they leap out Amy Adams a good job the
0:41:25jerky better falls on his face which was
0:41:27again a reversal you're like you're
0:41:28expecting them to be suave and whatever
0:41:30they know he gets the trip but amy adams
0:41:32had to be helped i noticed that part I
0:41:34was like why why do you gotta help the
0:41:36woman and legislative demand i think
0:41:38they redeemed it by having him and I
0:41:39haven't fallen is exactly like that's
0:41:41what it is it shows the unequal
0:41:43treatment that is one of the many things
0:41:45I don't accept but i think that the idea
0:41:47that they have because they control
0:41:49gravity this is a logical thing for the
0:41:50aliens to do it's the most convenient
0:41:52thing for them and then everything is
0:41:53sort of like it's you know it's got that
0:41:55wonderful texture mind a little
0:41:56brutalist architecture the kind of
0:41:58doubling of it but they go into a room
0:42:01and it's a very playing room it's got a
0:42:03big piece of glass in it and there's
0:42:05trillions there is and what it wasn't
0:42:07hard
0:42:07the hard sci-fi part of me was picking
0:42:10it knits around this the section about
0:42:12the whole idea of like what you get when
0:42:13you bring these people into the base you
0:42:15really going to bring them on there
0:42:16without telling exactly what they're in
0:42:17for the yeah they're behind glass like
0:42:19they gave you enough hints so that the
0:42:21audience kind of new
0:42:22what was coming but obviously you would
0:42:23you would tell the people hear the
0:42:25dialogue was when they're coming in
0:42:27there is over top there's a talking
0:42:28going on we'll always and came in and
0:42:30what the science says you have that we
0:42:31at the end of the session the gravity
0:42:33changes slid us gently out yeah it's
0:42:36just like a little bit of background
0:42:37conversation but they're not briefed on
0:42:39it apparently i mean like maybe the
0:42:41audience wouldn't have to know but
0:42:42surely those two people they were tell
0:42:43them exactly undergoing instead of them
0:42:45being surprised when they throw it like
0:42:46the light stick up there and and you
0:42:48they've got scientists there wouldn't
0:42:50you think like pretty much the only
0:42:52thing the scientists would be doing
0:42:53would be like how is the ship hovering
0:42:56there right get the instruments out now
0:42:58like this is the most interesting thing
0:43:00that you it's observable is a gigantic
0:43:02thing and it's not falling want you to
0:43:04get on that kind of that is that's
0:43:06another teenager like available just got
0:43:09the team intense working on that they're
0:43:10a bunch of teams in 10
0:43:12there's a physics guy and he's just not
0:43:14like what you got it you know you take
0:43:16get some instruments like get some
0:43:18measurements like do something going for
0:43:19the tricorder and wave it around it
0:43:20looks like you're doing something that
0:43:21was driving out there with pickup trucks
0:43:23and saying well suffice it to say that
0:43:24giant thing hovering over us
0:43:25let's disregard that the government of
0:43:27this whole yeah yeah I can be no the
0:43:30thing that made me stop for a moment was
0:43:32was the idea that surely they would be
0:43:35briefed in detail before they were put
0:43:39in hazmat suits and sent into the space
0:43:42right about what do they look like
0:43:43you'll see you'll see the arm and I
0:43:44think there might be some dialogue but
0:43:46you know the idea of like there is this
0:43:48little bit wishy to start fresh and the
0:43:50last guy is that left and we want you to
0:43:53write this with open eyes first before
0:43:55we tell you anything about it but come
0:43:56on it's really so be sure the eyes of
0:43:58the audience
0:43:59it was so clear that the characters
0:44:00didn't know that's fine for the audience
0:44:01not to know because that's like Spencer
0:44:03the audience but it was so clear that
0:44:04the character you didn't know what they
0:44:05were in for and suddenly like you should
0:44:07have briefed the characters but maybe
0:44:09they did because I mean honestly if you
0:44:12were in a room with someone they were
0:44:13like yeah the gravity's gonna like kind
0:44:15of shift 90 degrees if you're gonna go
0:44:18leaping them fall to your feet on the
0:44:20wall like I don't know that I would be
0:44:22able to really comprehend that until I
0:44:24was actually doing it and i think i
0:44:26would actually feel a lot of anxiety
0:44:28about it because it's completely foreign
0:44:30so i mean i agree i don't think they
0:44:32were but maybe they were and it was just
0:44:34such so
0:44:35suspended belief or disbelief that that
0:44:38they just could wrap their brains around
0:44:40until they actually had to do it
0:44:42I don't know why they're freaking out
0:44:43standing underneath this thing the size
0:44:44of a mountain that is not falling on
0:44:46them for some reason like so it's okay
0:44:48is it okay for us to stand here should
0:44:49we drive the trucks right under this
0:44:51thing cuz i love the claustrophobia
0:44:53though I thought they did wonderful job
0:44:54at made us feel like we were Louise in
0:44:57that moment we're watching it you're
0:44:58trying not to hyperventilate you don't
0:45:00know exactly what's gonna happen thats
0:45:0215-foot tall elephant-like cephalopods
0:45:05whoo whoooooo and other bad choices on
0:45:08this base
0:45:09don't let the military people there and
0:45:10watch fox news oh yeah they would never
0:45:12be like another thing that standard
0:45:14military like okay well you're off duty
0:45:16military people now watch a bunch of
0:45:18paranoid lunatic like conspiracy
0:45:19conspiracy website dot net is for that
0:45:22is your free time feel free to watch
0:45:25that that's fine
0:45:26we've been total radio silence would
0:45:27watch TV or skype calls me I have some
0:45:29issues with that entire plot line which
0:45:31we can get to but I want to ask about
0:45:32the aliens so yeah it does anybody have
0:45:34any thoughts about the way that the
0:45:35Abbott and Costello our friends the
0:45:37aliens are our differently
0:45:39I don't know why they made a window
0:45:40where you can only see their knees I
0:45:43guess it's the review is to get you get
0:45:44to reveal the end of the movie but I
0:45:46feel like as far as window placement if
0:45:48I was meeting a bunch of aliens I
0:45:50wouldn't make a windows so they can see
0:45:51from my knees down
0:45:53that's the heptapods go figure they
0:45:55don't they don't uh don't think like us
0:45:57and also i was disappointed they weren't
0:45:59wearing clothes i'm not saying that
0:46:00aliens have to wear clothes but the
0:46:01number of naked aliens and sci-fi movies
0:46:03like all right come on the law of
0:46:05averages some I'm gonna have some kind
0:46:06of fast thing going on or they'll have
0:46:08to be naked were not naked
0:46:10seems like a thing you might do their
0:46:12their own star trek don't protect your
0:46:15puritanical values on the heptapod I've
0:46:17got to say like you some of them are
0:46:19going to be naked I'm fine but like
0:46:20there should be some percentage of the
0:46:21half-closed I was trying to think of a
0:46:23pot with like a little jacket you know
0:46:24probably a little bow tie is this like
0:46:26panspermia but for clothes like
0:46:28everybody wears clothes everywhere
0:46:30no one wears clothes anywhere except
0:46:31were using it to regulate your
0:46:33temperature in some way and then
0:46:34eventually they become fashion as your
0:46:35society becomes more days it's not it's
0:46:37not inconceivable that anything looks
0:46:39kind of animal like these these aliens
0:46:41are always like they look like animals
0:46:43some kind they have joints and skin and
0:46:45muscle and so on and so forth but never
0:46:46any clothes for me clothing paradox
0:46:48where everybody's clothes nudity is
0:46:50universal state so that's it
0:46:52also I have some questions about their
0:46:53riding technique which seems to require
0:46:55a big glass panel like how do they
0:46:57haven't communicated riding with each
0:46:59other when there's not a big glass
0:47:00pitcher hovering in the role it's
0:47:02hovering in the fluid there the fluid
0:47:03environment and hovers is it looks gasps
0:47:06it looks like they're in a cloud kind of
0:47:07the exact makeup is never really and
0:47:11especially hard there in ama a foggy
0:47:14medium of some sort yeah like when she
0:47:16enters later on there's there's writing
0:47:19it just floats
0:47:20I don't know it's like I mean I I kind
0:47:23of understand the art direction like I
0:47:24shouldn't be overthinking it should be
0:47:25like what it is a type of network so
0:47:27much better and writing because when you
0:47:28do the visual you have to pin it down to
0:47:30something when you put it down you're
0:47:31like that's probably maybe not i don't
0:47:34know like you you don't see the
0:47:36advantages of it you see it looks cool
0:47:38but practically speaking you know spring
0:47:41including coalescing the shapes seems
0:47:44massively inefficient compared to
0:47:46dispose of you know advanced advancement
0:47:49of their writing in but it doesn't get
0:47:50to it in the film that they kind of are
0:47:52there they're creating a simultaneity
0:47:54above a thing at once and i think the
0:47:56movie conveys it very implicitly its
0:47:58explicit in the story it's a big hunk of
0:48:00the story and I don't know that they
0:48:03Jason I don't think they expressed as
0:48:05well in the movie why that was I think
0:48:06they did a pretty good job that there's
0:48:08a scene where Amy Adams says imagine
0:48:10writing you know writing a sentence with
0:48:12both hands starting at the beginning and
0:48:14the end and meeting in the middle that's
0:48:15what that's what they do is they
0:48:16encompass the entire thought and then
0:48:19they put it out there and you know
0:48:20there's there there squid-like they
0:48:22express inc in and and I just I like
0:48:27about it that you know they're alien
0:48:29they're very different from us and
0:48:30there's difficulty in communicating it's
0:48:33not it's not be headed star trek aliens
0:48:35and I like that about it that they are
0:48:37that they're so they're so different and
0:48:39weird and that's what aliens we if we
0:48:42ever meet aliens they're going to not be
0:48:44like some animal from some part of the
0:48:46earth except intelligent right there
0:48:48going to be very different and this is a
0:48:51good way to do that even though yet they
0:48:53are sort of like octopuses sort of
0:48:55elephant and octopi
0:48:56yeah there's a bit there that that thing
0:49:00with the the aliens and the glasses
0:49:02really is a trope though and I thought
0:49:03they handled it really well like I'm
0:49:04thinking of Independence Day with the
0:49:07brent Spiner seen pushed up against the
0:49:09glass and I felt like there's so many
0:49:11opportunities in this film where you
0:49:12think you're about to see something that
0:49:14gets you into horror and you find out
0:49:16what the reveal is I mean I knew the
0:49:18story and think they changed that much
0:49:19but I still thought is there something
0:49:21coming
0:49:22that's going to terrify me like it's
0:49:24going to change the whole meaning of it
0:49:25and I don't know how watching without
0:49:27knowing the story if you felt like we
0:49:28were on the verge of something terrible
0:49:30happening with the aliens and then that
0:49:31never results turns out the aliens are
0:49:33just great central to sucks you know a
0:49:35meditative job of not having like music
0:49:37cues to make you think all of a sudden
0:49:39some bloody thing is gonna they didn't
0:49:41have any jumpscares they didn't have any
0:49:42thing making you think there is going to
0:49:44be jumpscares didn't have anything
0:49:45making you think there was gonna be a
0:49:46whore aspect and I appreciated that also
0:49:48because my kids were there and be scared
0:49:50i would say that when she put her hand
0:49:52up to the class though there was sort of
0:49:53the anticipation of a jump-scare like
0:49:55she she's firmly interacting with the
0:49:58physical environment at this point and
0:50:00what will the alien response to that be
0:50:03whether it is physical or their repulsed
0:50:06by somebody touching it or whatever like
0:50:08Italy either was there was no clear path
0:50:11forward for what that would wind up
0:50:13taking plate will wind up taking place
0:50:15but it was fine all right uh plot stuff
0:50:18so let's talk about those those angry
0:50:20military guys with their conspiracy
0:50:24websites and all that this is this is a
0:50:26part of the story that I don't love but
0:50:28i see why they did it
0:50:29it's the entire we're we're
0:50:34communicating with all the other
0:50:36countries and then we're shutting it
0:50:37down in China and Russia are causing
0:50:39trouble and then we've got our own guys
0:50:41who have decided that they're going to
0:50:42blow up the thing or whatever I
0:50:44understand why this adds a layer of of
0:50:48suspense and action and threat
0:50:54especially the very tense scene where
0:50:56they're in the in the ship talking to
0:50:59the heptapods while the bomb is about to
0:51:01go off is the literal Hitchcock thing we
0:51:03have
0:51:04literal bond the audience knows is there
0:51:05and the characters don't yeah but but
0:51:07you know what the aliens know it's there
0:51:09and they and they sweep them out to be
0:51:10able to take their sweet time though
0:51:12they do they do they leave it to the end
0:51:15because they like a good then i'm going
0:51:18to count their buildings especially like
0:51:19with me tell you about the bomb behind
0:51:20you but first let's just talk about some
0:51:22other stuff yeah yeah I didn't I didn't
0:51:24love this part I again I know why it's
0:51:26there there's somebody who says you know
0:51:28we need a little more conflict we need a
0:51:30little more excitement about how about
0:51:31an explosion and some gunfire but I
0:51:34don't know why did I think this was my
0:51:36favorite bit of not the plot part which
0:51:39again I think it's just there is a
0:51:40standard part in it i think it does help
0:51:42the movie but the way it was handled i
0:51:44thought was really different than I
0:51:47would expect it so that the use of
0:51:49things I liked about her sandal first of
0:51:50all it was it was telegraphed pretty
0:51:52obviously we have shown that guy's face
0:51:54you know easy on the call was in fine
0:51:56they did just somebody needs to do right
0:51:57so they go there they plant the bomb we
0:52:00see the bomb
0:52:01it's got a time round up with it with
0:52:02the standard 7 segment display the
0:52:04timer's will always be made of what are
0:52:05they gonna do when bombs don't have that
0:52:06display on that anymore anyway that goes
0:52:08up and they want to show you then is
0:52:11like really only this other get this
0:52:13guy's face has been here the whole time
0:52:14going to be bored should be bored i
0:52:16totally want to kill these aliens did I
0:52:17say that out loud like the whole earlier
0:52:19part of the movie we know it's gonna be
0:52:20him then me then they show him down
0:52:22there they send up the bomb
0:52:24he's got other people with him you can't
0:52:26really see like they're just like just
0:52:27send him up whatever then they show the
0:52:29close-up of them unpacking their weapons
0:52:31unpacking their guns like and so it's
0:52:33clear that it's a conspiracy essentially
0:52:34all of them are like you know what
0:52:36they're saying all the military stuff
0:52:37like you know take good shots blog we
0:52:39can do this but they only show them
0:52:42opening the gun cases make sure their
0:52:44hands from above right almost as if
0:52:46you're looking out of the tunnel down at
0:52:47it and they don't show that gunfight
0:52:50they don't let your show like this they
0:52:53show the trucks coming towards it they
0:52:55showed the opening up the stuff and then
0:52:56from within the cave area you hear some
0:52:59gunshots but like we don't see the whole
0:53:01battle because and i love that was like
0:53:02I don't care about that guy
0:53:04yeah I don't care how that battle turns
0:53:06out i understand what you're getting at
0:53:08you don't have to take me there
0:53:10just just sketch it just be like don't
0:53:13don't go down because so many other
0:53:14movies would have had that battle scene
0:53:16and have
0:53:16cut back and forth in the battle scene
0:53:18the bomb talking to aliens balancing the
0:53:20Bob talking to aliens they stay with the
0:53:23people in the room and then come back to
0:53:25the bomb that much right now I love that
0:53:27I love that I was not forced to spend
0:53:29time with these Yahoo's down there
0:53:31having their gunfighter even with the
0:53:33good guys coming with the pickup trucks
0:53:34try to stop them like I know how that's
0:53:37gonna go you've established that you've
0:53:38done it whatever now we're in the room
0:53:39with the bomb and I really appreciated
0:53:41again light touch on all that where they
0:53:44just drop enough into the water to let
0:53:46you know these are the things that are
0:53:47happening you've seen this in 17 other
0:53:48movies we don't need to show you that
0:53:50stuff
0:53:50let's show you the stuff we haven't seen
0:53:52which is talking to these weird aliens
0:53:54advancing that plot and oh yeah there's
0:53:55a bomb in the thing and I thought the
0:53:57way they resolve the bomb with the
0:53:59little force push that the seven fingers
0:54:02force push to save them and and float
0:54:05them gently into the little gravity
0:54:06tunnel on all that I thought that was
0:54:08that was really nice and I do appreciate
0:54:10a good explosion in the middle of a
0:54:12sci-fi movie i'll say that was nice
0:54:13explosion i want to bring up the I want
0:54:15to circle back about the about that last
0:54:17bit too is that Abbott does this because
0:54:21they know it's gonna happen right this
0:54:23is part of what we find out as we
0:54:24develop further you look back at the
0:54:26scene you say these aliens knew exactly
0:54:29what was about to happen because they
0:54:30know and this is this is an echo of Amy
0:54:34Adams not changing the death of her
0:54:35daughter even though ostensibly maybe
0:54:38she could or she could not have
0:54:39conceived the daughter line in the movie
0:54:41in the book the story rather the
0:54:43daughter dies in a climbing accident so
0:54:45conceivably she could change events the
0:54:47mother and Louise might have missed the
0:54:48movie they make it essentially if you
0:54:50have this child she's gonna do not die
0:54:52of this rare and incurable disease which
0:54:54is a different set of steaks so I think
0:54:56they set up a bit in the same way as the
0:54:58alien knows it's like the doctor right
0:55:00he knows the staff is coming
0:55:02somebody knocks four times where the
0:55:03bomb is about to go off Abbott's entire
0:55:05life is clear to him that leads up to
0:55:08this moment when he commits this event
0:55:10which has this consequence for his race
0:55:12and for this whole mission and that's
0:55:14just what he does knowing that the whole
0:55:16time so i think it's a light parallelism
0:55:18but it comes into sharp relief by the
0:55:20end of the film there's one mechanic in
0:55:22this film that I can't get behind and
0:55:24that is the tons of fake news that are
0:55:27here in the media clips oh yea networks
0:55:29and the graphic overlays for countless
0:55:33needless organizations that we don't we
0:55:37don't need to have any concept of I I
0:55:39feel like that was a complete waste and
0:55:43especially hated the montage of all of
0:55:45them altogether blathering on about the
0:55:48events that are going on globally
0:55:49yep i don't really think that added
0:55:52anything to the film i found it to be
0:55:54really distracting and since we know it
0:55:56is completely absolutely one hundred
0:55:59percent of ache from from beginning to
0:56:02end
0:56:03I don't want to see it a if it's
0:56:06supposed to be some sort of plausible
0:56:07world near our modern-day then it should
0:56:11either be networks that were familiar
0:56:12with or should never be seen at all and
0:56:15i ate exposition can come at us through
0:56:17any other character that is available
0:56:19rather rather than this mechanic which I
0:56:22feels kind of lazy and something you see
0:56:24in like zombie movies
0:56:25yeah you know again not to bring back
0:56:27contact but I will say this for contact
0:56:29contact got a bunch of people from CNN
0:56:32to do stuff for contact with the CNN
0:56:35logos and they showed CNN's coverage of
0:56:38their launching their their machine and
0:56:40all of that and they edited together
0:56:43like clips Bill Clinton talking now and
0:56:47you know and they made an effort to say
0:56:48okay this is what it is it's like it's
0:56:50CNN you're seeing everything it's
0:56:52exactly what you're seeing and in this
0:56:54yeah it definitely felt like a TV show
0:56:57with a fake you know fake news anchor
0:56:59with a fake logo and I I grew here I I
0:57:02that was not my favorite thing about
0:57:03it's like one notch up from the spinning
0:57:06newspapers kind of thing so I want to
0:57:08bring I want to bring everybody down but
0:57:10i do want to explain why in the end this
0:57:11movie didn't didn't hold together for me
0:57:14alright why I don't tell you you're on
0:57:16so that's what I mean I like that is
0:57:18this so much i like about this movie
0:57:20that I don't regret having seen it all
0:57:22and i really liked that it was made but
0:57:24for me specifically like this to just
0:57:29fall entirely like this this movie The
0:57:32Return in this movie in the general plot
0:57:33hangs on as presented in the film I
0:57:36don't know what it's like in the book
0:57:38the barest of threads they mentioned
0:57:39this after Whorf hypothesis or whatever
0:57:42that your that the language that use
0:57:43influences your way of thinking right
0:57:45they throw that out there in case you're
0:57:47not familiar with it gets one line and
0:57:49then the whole turn in the book is by
0:57:51learning this alien language it will
0:57:53change your way of thinking and it
0:57:56changes your way of thinking in such a
0:57:57way the time is no longer linear and
0:57:59that is a really important thing because
0:58:01that's all about the turn or whatever
0:58:02and I that doesn't hold together for me
0:58:04the idea that the secret of these aliens
0:58:07would be it's like learn french and time
0:58:09is no longer linear nope sorry not
0:58:11happening like I don't care how fancy
0:58:12your languages i don't care if you write
0:58:14in a circle learning a language is like
0:58:17weird language plus after war people's
0:58:20time has no meaning no I don't I don't
0:58:22accept that I don't get it all right and
0:58:24so that that you know it doesn't hold
0:58:25together for me personally and then the
0:58:27second part is assuming does hold
0:58:30together sooner you accept that as like
0:58:31art whatever hand way behind way this is
0:58:33this is the plot of the movie i think
0:58:35that like what that I think what they
0:58:38were going for and didn't accomplish ms
0:58:40I I shouldn't feel like the wii's is a
0:58:43monster for having a child and I kind of
0:58:45feel like she's a monster for having
0:58:46your child because she knows how it's
0:58:49going to turn out yep
0:58:50presumably she accepts that there's no
0:58:51way she can avoid it and she does it
0:58:54anyway which strikes me as one of the
0:58:55most selfish acts you could possible
0:58:57because it's maybe you want to have
0:58:59those moments with your child and
0:59:00treasure them but the the poor child
0:59:02like you bring someone into this world
0:59:05you know is going to be did to die a
0:59:07terrible death I it just it seems to me
0:59:10because you're not like well maybe and
0:59:12you know like you you now see time as
0:59:14like a number of maybe she has no choice
0:59:15like that again it's not it's not
0:59:17emphasize enough the in the movie i
0:59:18can't tell if like this is gonna happen
0:59:20anyway and she embraces it is able to
0:59:22accept it versus no she actually does
0:59:24have a choice and she could choose not
0:59:26to do it so it
0:59:27I don't think that's what they wanted me
0:59:29to feel I think they wanted me to feel
0:59:30like this is an inevitability and
0:59:33embrace the Magica of time no longer
0:59:36being linear and you seeing the matrix
0:59:37and having it all be of one continuous
0:59:39thing and and then accept her doing this
0:59:44thing as a beautiful decision but like I
0:59:46i don't i don't see her as a monster I
0:59:49have empathy for her character and I
0:59:50appreciate it but this
0:59:51little corner of saying but yet did she
0:59:53really make the right decision we be not
0:59:55so that's that's Maggie I think that's
0:59:59the beauty of the
0:59:59the beauty of the
1:00:00end of this movie is that well first off
1:00:03I disagree that if it if she well I
1:00:07disagree yeah I know but broadly I do
1:00:09disagree but in specific i'm going to
1:00:11say I disagree because what you're
1:00:13arguing is if you know for a fact that
1:00:15you're going to have a child and you're
1:00:17going to love them and they're gonna
1:00:18love you and you're gonna raise them and
1:00:20thence tragically later in life they're
1:00:23going to die for some reason you should
1:00:25just not have them and they shouldn't
1:00:26exist and i think that's wrong i think
1:00:29that's monstrous and the reality is you
1:00:31know all of the children we have and
1:00:34bring into this world are going to die
1:00:37that's life not when they're 18 and from
1:00:41from are very rare disease just one
1:00:42length of time like if your life is I
1:00:44know but it is a significant thing it's
1:00:47a significant thing I'm just people make
1:00:49if you have taste sex you know you have
1:00:51to assess the traits as an Ashkenazi Jew
1:00:54I feels very strongly that there are
1:00:56people who make the choice to not have
1:00:57children all and people make the choice
1:00:59to have children knowing what the jack
1:01:01outcome a key be and that their child
1:01:03might live to be from age three to 18
1:01:05and I in cystic fibrosis other diseases
1:01:07they still have children but doesn't
1:01:09maybe like this is in this universe were
1:01:11led to believe that like it's not it's
1:01:13not a question of like always a
1:01:14possibility and Bob's like no this is
1:01:16how it's gonna go down you know ahead of
1:01:18time so i think the way time works in
1:01:19this movie
1:01:20what happens happens and that's one of
1:01:21the beautiful things it's a very 12
1:01:23monkeys like view of of time but then
1:01:26but then she doesn't get credit for
1:01:27doing a beautiful thing because she had
1:01:28no choice of things that happen happen
1:01:30well what is it what is the free will
1:01:31it's a good question here's the thing
1:01:33though John your point of view is
1:01:35represented in the movie because it is
1:01:37strongly implied that that's the reason
1:01:38jeremy renner leaves her
1:01:39well yeah I mean who had you know I i
1:01:42have I my life for not being with his
1:01:45dying daughter but like he's and he's
1:01:47another person who got you got you know
1:01:49screwed over by her decision because she
1:01:51didn't include him in the decision she
1:01:53just said oh I'm you know let's have a
1:01:55child together
1:01:56I'm not going to tell you but guess what
1:01:57this is gonna die horribly I know this
1:01:59but I'm not gonna bring you know i'm not
1:02:01going to tell you about it so like he
1:02:03got suckered into this know until she's
1:02:05aged seven or so that he's gonna dance
1:02:06right and then she's gonna tell me it's
1:02:07like well it's like the worst possible
1:02:09thing like you didn't tell me the
1:02:10beginning which is not fair to me
1:02:11because you knew
1:02:12how this is gonna turn out and didn't
1:02:13tell me right and then you do tell me
1:02:15halfway through by the way that you can
1:02:16end horribly huh
1:02:17so I didn't get to enjoy the rest of my
1:02:19daughter's life you could just not told
1:02:21him the entire time so I'd say the truly
1:02:23selfish move is saving yourself is
1:02:26preventing your child from having any
1:02:27life at all because you don't want to be
1:02:28hurt when they die but there is no child
1:02:30at that point there's not you're not
1:02:31preventing anybody from having anything
1:02:32anymore year then you're preventing all
1:02:34the kids you didn't have four but there
1:02:35is she knows who she knows every notion
1:02:38of her child because she can see the
1:02:40future see so and this goes back to your
1:02:41other point which is you just don't you
1:02:42just don't buy this idea of course
1:02:45language you can see the premise of the
1:02:46entire thing which is you know it's
1:02:48science fiction I that there are lots of
1:02:49things about you that I inspection
1:02:51that's fantasy that's just fantasy like
1:02:53there's no scientific just because there
1:02:54was there's a thing called Sapphira war
1:02:56hypothesis one of the ways people think
1:02:58of the arrow of time and think of the
1:03:00way the universe works is that it
1:03:02actually is all occurring simultaneously
1:03:04everything no I'm on board with that I
1:03:07just don't think learning a language
1:03:08that is going to give you mastery over
1:03:10time but we don't know that that's what
1:03:12it is in the structure of the film the
1:03:13aliens give her a weapon she's pursuing
1:03:15you know that's part of the thing a tool
1:03:17they talk about is technology its
1:03:18biggest you learn language 129 language
1:03:20of changing your way of thinking that's
1:03:22that's all you got in the movie she goes
1:03:23into the strange medium their teaching
1:03:26this language which unlocks something as
1:03:28a tech technology but they're talking
1:03:30about is something that's part of the
1:03:31mentality right that this language
1:03:33unlocks a capacity which is a very
1:03:35science fiction think it's not fantasy
1:03:36to unlock the best if we accept that
1:03:38there are aliens who can see nonlinear
1:03:40time why could they not teach the
1:03:42ability to see nonlinear time to someone
1:03:44was saying like that wasn't in the movie
1:03:46all we got in the movie with sapphire
1:03:47worth learn language time on time
1:03:49unfolds like there was no no thing in
1:03:51the movie to tell you like / altering
1:03:53you by being in this mr. anything like
1:03:55that it was your footnotes then yeah
1:03:57well I really just wasn't there like
1:03:59there was there was very little to hang
1:04:00your hat on to to explain why this end
1:04:03and i would say like it's it's only
1:04:05vaguely plausible unless their altar
1:04:06altering the biology to be like we can
1:04:09take a human and give you the ability to
1:04:10do this thing like i don't think there's
1:04:12anything that can be explained humans
1:04:14they would let humans see time in a
1:04:16nonlinear way and see the future in the
1:04:17past like even if I accept that there's
1:04:19any kind of being that has this mastery
1:04:21over this aspect of the universe the
1:04:24idea that
1:04:25talk therapy or just hanging out
1:04:27together and learning some stuff can
1:04:28give you that it doesn't doesn't hang
1:04:29together syfy what is the other fans who
1:04:31is fine it's like i'll give you the true
1:04:33side there give you a doctor strange
1:04:35type thing yeah all thumbs up but sci-fi
1:04:37not very sci-fi I disagree time travel
1:04:41in the perception of time is a
1:04:43fundamental principle of science fiction
1:04:44and right but you gotta you gotta have
1:04:46something to hang your hat on you gotta
1:04:48have something she locked but she like
1:04:50the capacity by language makes it turns
1:04:51out that line w % of our brain right
1:04:53nothing but no they didn't do that
1:04:55Joanna but they didn't do this
1:04:56no it's the idea that she's not
1:04:58unlocking some latent capacity your
1:05:00brain but it's a way it's a point of
1:05:01view you have actually interviewing
1:05:04doesn't point of view doesn't make you
1:05:06not incentives just hanging space to
1:05:07though I mean the cips hang there and
1:05:09you know in the over the field and
1:05:10that's a form of science fiction we
1:05:12accept the idea that she has the
1:05:13capacity to see time in a in a holistic
1:05:16you know complete fashion because the
1:05:18aliens have already mastered this
1:05:19because they've done it's capable for
1:05:21her to do it and language is the key
1:05:22that allows her to see simultaneously I
1:05:24I would have been happier if they didn't
1:05:26have if they didn't mention sapphire
1:05:27Worf if because that was the only thing
1:05:29they gave you was like by learning a
1:05:30language but if they didn't mention that
1:05:31at all but merely said she goes into the
1:05:33missing now she can do this thing then
1:05:35you can just make up an explanation you
1:05:36want you're like well the aliens can do
1:05:37it and now she can do it
1:05:38the story makes it easier because of the
1:05:40story she has no ability to change time
1:05:42not exactly adjacent i just reread it
1:05:43and I after this because in the movie
1:05:45it's clear that she can sort of change
1:05:48events that there's some kind of looped
1:05:49going on with you don't see where it
1:05:50starts and ends at car locks
1:05:52i I don't I don't read it that way you
1:05:54don't do you read that she can change
1:05:56challenge because she's talking about
1:05:57she can't i don't i don't either the way
1:05:59I read the movie is that time is it time
1:06:01is the way it is and when she knows
1:06:03about it she knows about it but that's
1:06:04all she was able to create a paradox
1:06:06somehow though so that's part of the but
1:06:08we don't know how that paradox was
1:06:09created right yeah like what the general
1:06:12calling the general then he's the one he
1:06:14tells her the thing that is true
1:06:16that's what that's what that's a loop
1:06:17that happens but i don't i'm not sure
1:06:18she creates it wrong not sure I just
1:06:20really something like this sometimes you
1:06:23know a lot of other science-fiction
1:06:24resolutions when you have a loop like
1:06:26that occur a series of events that
1:06:28happened essentially off-camera lock you
1:06:30into a certain kind of outcome because
1:06:31they ripple back and forth through time
1:06:33and then you're seeing the outcome but
1:06:34you can't see the cause and that's
1:06:36always good sci-fi about
1:06:37that but in this in the book its
1:06:39seemingly very explicit that she her
1:06:42consciousness spans she's unable she
1:06:44could never told so she tells John
1:06:45Jeremy Renner right she tells even in
1:06:47the movie this thing about the future
1:06:49she reveals the future to him which
1:06:51ostensibly would change things accept
1:06:53the notion is that she'd are always told
1:06:55him that and that she remembers how why
1:06:57he left you know in the past she knows
1:06:59why she told him that in the future but
1:07:01isn't that changing history changing
1:07:02time and the general is the most
1:07:04problematic thing in the movie because
1:07:05it i mean you can be explained by saying
1:07:07like the general learn the language too
1:07:09because the general is there and the
1:07:11only in story reason for him to saying
1:07:13that is because he knows he has to say
1:07:14that because that is essential for the
1:07:17you know the earlier events right thing
1:07:19you learned later it is not is not
1:07:20naturalistic it's not as not as if he
1:07:22just happens to say that and she learns
1:07:23you can go back he comes and says I
1:07:25think it's probably important for me to
1:07:27show you this and also let me tell you
1:07:29this like so he and he could be doing
1:07:32that if he also has gained this ability
1:07:34to see time and realizes this is an
1:07:36important thing to do and that's fine i
1:07:38just not they don't they don't they say
1:07:39in the movies why he's doing that but
1:07:41they make it very clear that it's not
1:07:42just know she has a glimpse of the
1:07:44future and using an information she's
1:07:45able to be convincing in the past she
1:07:47has a glimpse of the future in which the
1:07:48guy she's convincing gives are
1:07:50explicitly for no other in story reason
1:07:53this information for the express purpose
1:07:54of causing the past events to happen not
1:07:57thats that's a fun scene but i don't
1:07:59really love it because I i find me there
1:08:01it feels like us i seen from another
1:08:03movie
1:08:03it feels like a scene from you know
1:08:06looper or have some other kind of time
1:08:08travel shenanigans movie and that's not
1:08:10the movie that I feel like I've been
1:08:11watching up to this point in building
1:08:13Ted's Excellent Adventure members if
1:08:15they escape they got the key right to
1:08:18escape later and then they won't
1:08:19remember me up
1:08:21yeah can i point out one other thing to
1:08:23having read the story and the movie and
1:08:25I really do love the movie i think it's
1:08:27fair i'd be with aliens for a half stars
1:08:30when i get out of 5 but the i think that
1:08:33there's a graft in this movie to give it
1:08:34there's like the core story that's in
1:08:37the short story is I think told
1:08:40beautifully and almost completely and in
1:08:42most ways almost identical I think Jason
1:08:44don't you agree that's all that they
1:08:47preserve the core feeling and nature of
1:08:49the story but then there's this it
1:08:51additional like contact and I kept
1:08:52thinking about contact to or even lake
1:08:55house in fact there's a little bit of
1:08:56that like inexplicable time travel
1:08:59information time travel was
1:09:01choreographed it on top to give it sort
1:09:02of a conventional veneers that would
1:09:04allow an arc of you know something has
1:09:07to happen and the world's my blog in the
1:09:09story the aliens show up the reveal
1:09:13I'm gonna go spoilers for the reveal is
1:09:14that there's no reason they're there
1:09:15they're there because they know they
1:09:17have to be there and then they go and
1:09:18that's the entire and inside the movies
1:09:20or the story is a meditation on what you
1:09:23know your internal state of mind how you
1:09:25perceive the universe how you deal with
1:09:27this knowledge that's terrible
1:09:28and the fact that these aliens because
1:09:31they can receive all of their time at
1:09:33once their whole lives at once not the
1:09:34future is their whole lives they come
1:09:37and they go and there's no purpose for
1:09:39it so you're left to close with rather
1:09:41than this one coming because we need you
1:09:42three thousand years the whole subtitle
1:09:44seen I think they could have removed all
1:09:45the subtitles and it would have been a
1:09:47better film like just had her in there
1:09:49talking to them then painting things
1:09:51that are going out and doing the thing
1:09:52and we're going much better i enjoyed
1:09:54the we're here because we will need you
1:09:56in 3,000 years so there are two things
1:09:58that bothered me about the the movie
1:10:03that made it four and a half stars
1:10:05instead of five for me
1:10:06one of them was that whole scene with
1:10:08the general where he likes shows or his
1:10:11phone and then tells her exactly what
1:10:12she says and I kind of I felt like and
1:10:16she would either no or not no you know
1:10:18that's done in science fiction where
1:10:20it's just kind of a hand waved away and
1:10:22not really explained so I didn't really
1:10:24love that scene and the other thing was
1:10:27a as Joe mentioned in the beginning the
1:10:30hair during that whole scene where she
1:10:34so mad she's a little she's like on the
1:10:38ship inn in their environment because it
1:10:41was so distracted I was they were so
1:10:44overly ambitious with the the lack or
1:10:49reduction of gravity and her hair in
1:10:51that environment
1:10:53yeah I I was cringing the whole entire
1:10:56time it's supposed to be a really
1:10:57emotionally impactful moment we're
1:10:59describing the death of
1:11:02the the characters who threw them out of
1:11:05the little airlock thing inside of there
1:11:07and we're discussing how in 3,000 years
1:11:09it's gonna be important for the human
1:11:10race and all the things about the weapon
1:11:12and seeing your time and it's just the
1:11:13whole time just staring at these weird
1:11:16brassy waves moving around and just like
1:11:20this is awful guys this is kind of
1:11:22situations where the visual effects are
1:11:24are in a hard place because if you've
1:11:27seen like people on the International
1:11:29Space Station with long hair hair and
1:11:31zero gravity looks weird like it doesn't
1:11:33look it doesn't look graceful like it
1:11:35just kind of you know it just it doesn't
1:11:38do things that you want to do in the
1:11:40movie looks very strange to us so
1:11:43there's a lot of this a lot of those
1:11:44youtube videos whatever woman is up
1:11:46there doing experiments using a very
1:11:47long hair and she's got in different
1:11:49styles and different times and it just
1:11:50kind of bounces around awkwardly and
1:11:52sticks out at weird angles and it just
1:11:54is not flattering it is much better to
1:11:56make it look like pretend you're a
1:11:58mermaid underwater and also you're on a
1:12:00Playstation 4 and now your hair is
1:12:01waving and its artistic license but
1:12:04maybe maybe they need a little more
1:12:06money so the end the very end
1:12:09I what I loved one of the things i love
1:12:11about this movie is I i love how
1:12:13beautiful it is at the end that we
1:12:14there's a moment where she says I
1:12:16realized why I just realized why my
1:12:19husband left me and he says I don't I
1:12:22didn't know you were married and it's
1:12:24like you know your she's actually
1:12:25realizing she's figured out like how
1:12:28this is gonna go from here on out and I
1:12:31I i think that it's a beautiful thing
1:12:35that she's been in a movie she's been
1:12:37especially the beginning she's talking
1:12:39to her daughter and talking about the
1:12:40story of her daughter's life and we've
1:12:42seen these hints about like mommy and
1:12:44daddy talk to animals you know and
1:12:46things that are giving her clues about
1:12:48this that in the end she gets this much
1:12:50bigger vision that this is that she is
1:12:53going to have a child within and it's
1:12:56the child that we've seen all along and
1:12:59and she's going to go through that whole
1:13:01process that leads to you know her
1:13:04daughter growing up and then her
1:13:05daughter dying and i think it's sad and
1:13:08and beautiful that and and the idea
1:13:11there i take away from it i'm curious
1:13:13what all of you take away from it
1:13:14is that if you look at any life on a
1:13:17long scale various tragedy and there's
1:13:21happy things and then you die and so you
1:13:26have to you know if your ipod you just
1:13:28have to appreciate the happy things that
1:13:31happen because you know we're all
1:13:33bounded by time and I I you know I
1:13:36thought it was I thought it was a
1:13:37beautiful poetic way to end a movie
1:13:41about aliens who live in a big floating
1:13:43spaceship i also agree that it's very
1:13:46poetic
1:13:46I i do have some things that I thought
1:13:48about sense that about the mechanics of
1:13:50it and what the ramifications would be
1:13:53on a global scale especially like why
1:13:55would you be throwing a party 18 months
1:13:57later instead of being like oh I wonder
1:13:59what this time travel is going to do the
1:14:00stock market the thing though just about
1:14:02the aspect of Louise and everything
1:14:05about Louie said i love that i thought
1:14:07that was a very beautiful story to tell
1:14:10and I love coming full circle to the
1:14:13drawings with them in the canary and
1:14:15then also when she's back at the lake
1:14:20house and pouring glasses wine there
1:14:22were those empty glasses of wine which
1:14:23are on the table by the door at the very
1:14:27first shot of the movie as the camera
1:14:29pushed in on that and this we take to
1:14:32mean is the night of the the night of
1:14:35the daughters conception basically
1:14:37because this was the moment of the
1:14:39voiceover that's happening right there
1:14:41and the fact that Jeremy Renner's
1:14:42outside she's bringing a glass of wine I
1:14:44but that that also ties it back in with
1:14:48what we saw in these these things that
1:14:50you thought were things you might have
1:14:51thought were flashbacks earlier and and
1:14:54makes the film feel very coherent in
1:14:57that regard so I i like that element of
1:14:59the construction i like that i just i
1:15:01like the I i think i like the bitter
1:15:03sweetness i think that's the thing i
1:15:04like I think I like that it's sad and
1:15:07happy at the same time that that like
1:15:09that that really works for me
1:15:10I thought it was sort of perfect and i
1:15:15said at the outset i'm circling around
1:15:17because my memory works in big blocks of
1:15:18time he finally explained glen and how
1:15:21we work exactly
1:15:22now you understand meet the others i
1:15:23have to pod I did you know the always
1:15:27knew the hit
1:15:29very good the bit about this is why the
1:15:31story as i said the beginning always
1:15:32gets to me is I feel like and you've
1:15:34talked about it throughout too is it's
1:15:35the the nature of being a parent is that
1:15:37you're always creating some part of life
1:15:39that you don't know how long this
1:15:41creature you love so much is going to
1:15:42live you know how long you're going to
1:15:43live whatever but you might live to see
1:15:45your child died which is a terrible
1:15:46terrible thing we know when they live to
1:15:48see our parents died that's much more
1:15:49likely and reasonable and and also
1:15:51horrible but seeing a child died is the
1:15:54worst thing in the story plays with that
1:15:56idea about that having almost having the
1:15:59choice it's like but you don't have the
1:16:00choice in the story she clearly doesn't
1:16:02have the choice here we you know I was
1:16:05interesting the different people think
1:16:06she did that she had any free well there
1:16:08but whether she did or didn't
1:16:10that choice is made and she's now
1:16:12fervently you deeply conscious other
1:16:14from that moment forward and that it
1:16:17just hits me so hard to think about it
1:16:20that I think it overwhelms any of this
1:16:22sort of you know tacked on bits that
1:16:24beware global issues are are brought in
1:16:27i think to you know heighten the
1:16:28dramatic effect where it's really some
1:16:30level this is a very small movie a
1:16:32better view aliens and a few people and
1:16:34all m1 life and it's it's funny how
1:16:38small it feels even though it's brings
1:16:41in the global things I liked it a lot
1:16:43I I tacho a lot of the thoughts that I
1:16:47think several of my panelists had at the
1:16:49at the very beginning here at the end
1:16:51say we're wrapping it all the way back
1:16:53around I got ya i thought it was I
1:16:55thought it was the kind of movie that I
1:16:57like to see I hope they make more movies
1:16:59like this i think it is the perfect
1:17:01execution in a lot of ways of at
1:17:03adapting a good science fiction short
1:17:06story into a film which you know
1:17:09original properties in Hollywood not so
1:17:12common anymore and site you know science
1:17:15fiction short stories are the perfect
1:17:16thing to mine for movies they are a good
1:17:19match and this is a good story and as
1:17:23somebody who read it five years ago I
1:17:24could not imagine a better adaptation of
1:17:27them that it is there is so much care
1:17:29and there are so many things that could
1:17:30have really screwed up and they took a
1:17:33lot of care with the way that this
1:17:34screenplay is
1:17:36and then the way it's directed and shot
1:17:37instead the music and all of that I
1:17:39think they did a very good job Amy Adams
1:17:41is amazing in it and so yeah it i have
1:17:45enjoyed a rival more than I've enjoyed
1:17:47the movie I in multiple years i'll put
1:17:51it that way I I thought it was great so
1:17:53i can't say how good of an adaptation it
1:17:55was because it didn't read the story
1:17:56pages it was definitely it was
1:17:58definitely a good man residues yeah it
1:17:59was definitely a good movie but like you
1:18:01know ASAP but my quibbles about it don't
1:18:03make me have any ill will towards this
1:18:04movie at all and I think for me to get
1:18:08over the things that bother me about it
1:18:09wouldn't take much like the way I would
1:18:11fix this movie is get rid of sapphire
1:18:13Worf don't have the language be the gift
1:18:15have her merely get this ability through
1:18:16some other hand wavy means that doesn't
1:18:18try to don't try to pin down to some
1:18:20concrete like languages and West I like
1:18:22it
1:18:22yeah right in it but then do the real
1:18:25thing is like the thing that you all got
1:18:27out of it that I wish there was there
1:18:28was more of is the idea that it was
1:18:31there and it's there in the first scene
1:18:32but I feel like when they wrap it up at
1:18:34the end there's a little bit too much
1:18:35linear time the idea that after she
1:18:37receives this gift that her experience
1:18:40of time is not like our so she is not
1:18:42live she's not choosing to do a thing
1:18:45and living through that like she sees
1:18:46the whole her life at the same as we
1:18:48were also it sees the whole of her life
1:18:49at the same time and if you can imagine
1:18:51seeing it the whole your life at the
1:18:53same time you can see there with this
1:18:55child in some portion or without the
1:18:57child's own portion when she looks at
1:18:59the whole time she looks at the ring and
1:19:01says well I want the ring that has the
1:19:03kid part in here because i'm looking at
1:19:04the whole thing i'm not you know and
1:19:06it's that she doesn't do if he doesn't
1:19:08transformation it's not expressed to us
1:19:10well that now she is different than
1:19:13essentially every other human who
1:19:14doesn't have this ability because she's
1:19:15not living her life from one day to the
1:19:18next
1:19:19marching through time checking off
1:19:21things on the calendar she is instead
1:19:23experiencing and viewing her entire life
1:19:26at once and from that perspective offer
1:19:28quote-unquote choices which are really
1:19:30choices make sense and give the the the
1:19:33heartwarming ending I just feel like
1:19:34this that you have to bring a lot of
1:19:36that to it because by the end of the
1:19:39movie they make it seem like she has
1:19:41like 0 and now we're in the present and
1:19:43I'm making these choices and i'm just
1:19:45going to live out my days and i'm just
1:19:47going to let it go which is which is not
1:19:48for it to really work for it to really
1:19:50resonated maybe the book does this
1:19:51better
1:19:52I have to really internalize the idea
1:19:55that she is not continuing her life from
1:19:57this point on but did it but she is now
1:19:59and has always been in forever will be
1:20:02experiencing her entire life or one at
1:20:03once at and one giant ring in the in the
1:20:07book it's a story to be clear you like
1:20:08the story better I think in the story
1:20:10it's made clear that from the moment the
1:20:12language affects her that she now sees
1:20:14it from that point to her death but not
1:20:17beyond the aliens may have longer lives
1:20:19and Jason have to agree with you to this
1:20:21is I can't imagine a better adaptation
1:20:23of a book that i love so or story looks
1:20:26so much I just you know it's not perfect
1:20:29in every way
1:20:30yeah I don't like some of the plot
1:20:31add-ons but oh my god it's I think it's
1:20:34it couldn't have been a better
1:20:35adaptation yeah I i thinkyeah the
1:20:37impression i got in the way I read the
1:20:39movie is that she is basically kind of
1:20:41not unstuck in time because that's not
1:20:43quite right to use the you know
1:20:44slaughterhouse-five but it's that idea
1:20:46is like her her view of time is broken
1:20:49at that point forever like she is
1:20:51hopping around between all the different
1:20:53things that happen in her in her life
1:20:55and that's just how she is now but uh
1:20:58you know but books can make definitive
1:21:00statements and movies have images on the
1:21:02screen and you have to read them I I was
1:21:05I've been wondering about we see her at
1:21:07the end kind of teaching seminars about
1:21:10this language she has the book about the
1:21:13language do other people have this
1:21:15ability or is she so superior in her
1:21:17linguistic abilities that she is the
1:21:20only one who can see forward through
1:21:23time nearly teaching the language surely
1:21:25wouldn't give you a view of all of
1:21:26space-time so I think she's the only one
1:21:27with the gift that's my headcanon it's
1:21:29just you know it's just your life that
1:21:30you don't see all of space-time the
1:21:32aliens made live to be thousand years
1:21:34old my impression is that because they
1:21:36need humanity in 3,000 years they gave
1:21:38them the language as a tool
1:21:40plus the schematic to build whatever
1:21:42they need to get built the aliens
1:21:44connect there helping 3,000 years I mean
1:21:46that's not that's in the book but I feel
1:21:47like in the story the story then nobody
1:21:50in the story except the linguists to
1:21:51meet the aliens ever managed to learn
1:21:52languages and my take on it is is you
1:21:57can teach other concepts of this alien
1:21:59language but until you
1:22:01basically what they say until you start
1:22:03thinking in it until you start dreaming
1:22:05in it that's the moment where now your
1:22:07perceptions widen and that's unclear to
1:22:10me whether she can now teach you know
1:22:13native uh have to pod be or whether this
1:22:18is just you know she can do is sort of
1:22:19teach you the basics and and you'll
1:22:22never be able to see it like her that
1:22:24that is left to the imagination but you
1:22:26need you really need it's like you need
1:22:27to go to France you need to be immersed
1:22:29yeah you need to hang out with heptapod
1:22:30for a while in a cave that's right
1:22:32really get that's why they only you know
1:22:34in in the good schools only have two
1:22:36pots can teach that language classroom
1:22:38have non-native speakers to know English
1:22:41allowed in the classroom just a series
1:22:42of loud farting noise and everybody gets
1:22:44an ink spray bottle and a pump in water
1:22:46and then they all start getting to work
1:22:48about speaking but everyone's here
1:22:50forever and I just I just just 102 is a
1:22:52Stephen Wolfram and his son were
1:22:54involved in creating the language which
1:22:55doesn't surprise me at all
1:22:57yeah and i like that you know they
1:22:58basically have like an iPad app where
1:23:00they build the language of my thought
1:23:01that I thought they visualize that
1:23:02pretty well the idea of how do you have
1:23:04anything that's occurred a circle with
1:23:05things off it looks like a really weird
1:23:07sort of a way of doing a written
1:23:10language and I thought they did a good
1:23:11job with that we should have introduced
1:23:13into emoji though
1:23:14hey hey you you have you seen pile of
1:23:16poo great so you're bringing your great
1:23:17and all but alright well that has been a
1:23:20it's been a nice conversation about a
1:23:21fun movie i hope you've all seen it if
1:23:23you're listening to this but if not you
1:23:24should you should go watch it because
1:23:26it's good i like to thank my guests
1:23:28doesn't matter when they listen to
1:23:29podcasts that's true i suppose that's
1:23:31true once you listen to this podcast
1:23:32then you will understand all podcasts
1:23:35that no that's not how it works either
1:23:37only when you're dreaming but they have
1:23:39to be immersed they do living with you
1:23:41too living have to live with a podcast
1:23:43live from the podcast land and moving
1:23:46with Jason for a month menus you're
1:23:48going to start
1:23:49I'm gonna have to clean the cat box
1:23:50while you're here though so be warned
1:23:53alright thanks to my guests for being
1:23:55here John siracusa thank you as always I
1:23:57have no hate in my heart for this movie
1:23:59that's good that's good it did the one
1:24:02day you will see nonlinear time there's
1:24:06so much of it you won't even believe it
1:24:08Joe steel thank you bb excellent to each
1:24:11other
1:24:11thank you whoa holy in Sims thank you
1:24:14thank you and Glenn fleischmann thank
1:24:19you for going to be here
1:24:22well you know I knew it would come out
1:24:23this way but I still showed up this was
1:24:26a place this was a pleasure all good and
1:24:28will be eternally in nonlinear time and
1:24:31space
1:24:32thanks everybody out there for listening
1:24:33to this edition of the uncomfortable
1:24:35will see last week or next week for now
1:24:42[Music]