The Incomparable

328: Panspermia, but for Clothes

 

  the incomparable number 320 a November [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Snell [TS]

  we are going to do an unusual thing semi [TS]

  unusual thing for the uncomfortable [TS]

  which is talk about a movie that is in [TS]

  theaters now as we record this it is [TS]

  November 2016 and a film released in [TS]

  this very month is on our agenda we are [TS]

  going to talk about a rival directed by [TS]

  Denny Villeneuve and starring Amy Adams [TS]

  and jeremy renner along with forest [TS]

  whitaker and some other interesting [TS]

  people based on the ted chang story [TS]

  story of your life which I i should i [TS]

  should look up we discussed it that [TS]

  story and his entire collection in in an [TS]

  early episode of the incomparable [TS]

  episode number 20 nope 3232 you can go [TS]

  back to number 32 and here past us talk [TS]

  about that [TS]

  joining me to talk about arrival are [TS]

  these three lovely people lean sims [TS]

  hello hello [TS]

  it's good to have you here thank you i'm [TS]

  excited to talk about this amazing movie [TS]

  I loved spoilers John siracusa is also [TS]

  here is was will be something like that [TS]

  hi John [TS]

  yeah it's kinda seems like I've always [TS]

  been here and yet I haven't arrived yet [TS]

  Glenn fleischmann was joining us and [TS]

  always joins us hi Glenn [TS]

  hi I can't tell you how hard it was [TS]

  we're talking about the story is a few [TS]

  years ago do not mention this episode [TS]

  but i did it i pulled it off [TS]

  that's good that's good heptapod be and [TS]

  of course I don't know why of course he [TS]

  saw the movie and I want to talk about [TS]

  its just oh hi Joe [TS]

  hello you were one of the motivators for [TS]

  me to finally pull the trigger on on [TS]

  this because you're like I have things I [TS]

  would like to say I'm like alright so do [TS]

  I let's do it let's make it happen our [TS]

  friend Erica and sign can't be here [TS]

  because she's traveling we're recording [TS]

  this just before Thanksgiving and she's [TS]

  traveling to the United States for [TS]

  thanksgiving but but out at a key moment [TS]

  we will interject something that she [TS]

  wanted to make known about goal this [TS]

  film so that's exciting [TS]

  everybody stay tuned stay tuned for that [TS]

  it's a it's a good officer is actually [TS]

  the first review of it i read excellent [TS]

  very similar observation and it's very [TS]

  good [TS]

  so this is a movie like a so many about [TS]

  aliens appearing on earth and you can [TS]

  probably guess what will happen next and [TS]

  pretty much none of those things happen [TS]

  i think that's that's my opening [TS]

  statement is one of the I mean I know [TS]

  what was going to happen because i read [TS]

  the short story five years ago but i [TS]

  really enjoy how it's on one level it's [TS]

  like 50 other movies and yet when you [TS]

  get a little of that level it is not [TS]

  like very many other movies at all [TS]

  I i really like that about it what do [TS]

  you all what did you all do you all [TS]

  think about the the concept of this of [TS]

  this movie the basic concept but i'm a [TS]

  huge fan up the short story i'd say the [TS]

  story is which I reread after seeing the [TS]

  film I don't want to spoil my memory [TS]

  that gets into the home phone itself i [TS]

  don't remember too well when I was about [TS]

  to see and it's a story that I think [TS]

  about all the time like I would say not [TS]

  a month goes by that the story doesn't [TS]

  pop up my thoughts in some ways are [TS]

  reminded by it over the many years since [TS]

  i first read it because it it has this [TS]

  residence to me about especially since [TS]

  becoming a parent because I think [TS]

  there's something deep in a story of [TS]

  your life about parenthood but also it's [TS]

  a rollicking sci-fi story that has [TS]

  really interesting elements that are [TS]

  almost unique to the story that you [TS]

  almost don't see in the whole of science [TS]

  fiction which is kinda Ted Chang thing [TS]

  that he said he does so many stories [TS]

  that are almost three generous you don't [TS]

  you know you're like how I rented [TS]

  anywhere else like no no not exactly so [TS]

  watching in the movie i had that [TS]

  medicine sation of kind of knowing what [TS]

  the whole movie is going to be about [TS]

  which is perfect for this film but not [TS]

  really knowing what I was what I was [TS]

  about to see so I had that overlay on it [TS]

  as well I went into this i knew nothing [TS]

  about it I hadn't read the short story I [TS]

  don't even know if I knew there was a [TS]

  short story I hadn't seen a trailer and [TS]

  I just had a bunch of friends who saw it [TS]

  more like wow that was astounding as so [TS]

  I one of them being you Jason text my [TS]

  husband from lake in the middle of my [TS]

  class that i was teaching was like it [TS]

  you can see the movie tonight [TS]

  and so we went I and i loved it so much [TS]

  there's so much that is extremely well [TS]

  done and I i do have some quibbles but [TS]

  by and large the the entire thing I [TS]

  thought was really really beautiful and [TS]

  both from lake at a cinematic mood [TS]

  setting standpoint and I thought amy [TS]

  adams was absolutely amazing she did [TS]

  such a great job in that role and I felt [TS]

  a little betrayed that I said jeremy [TS]

  renner movie but I gotta ask that and I [TS]

  i really loved it like I walked out of [TS]

  there my husband we do a rating system [TS]

  when we see movies or whatever and he [TS]

  was like okay so how many stars and I [TS]

  was like this is a solid like four and a [TS]

  half stars movie for me it is one of the [TS]

  best movies i've seen in a long time and [TS]

  he's wrong he gave it three and a half [TS]

  but it wasn't the best movies that i [TS]

  have seen and we're gonna have you said [TS]

  he trashed three-and-a-half is not [TS]

  trashing it [TS]

  he no no he didn't trash it but he [TS]

  didn't love it on the level that i did [TS]

  and i think part of that is some of the [TS]

  stuff that Erica wanted to bring up that [TS]

  will talk about after the spoiler home [TS]

  porn goes off so earn and but yeah I [TS]

  think from a gender perspective from [TS]

  seeing people represented in movies who [TS]

  are like me this did better than any [TS]

  movie that I've seen in maybe ever and [TS]

  but we'll talk about that later [TS]

  I just learned that there will be a [TS]

  spoiler horn coming up so i will pilot [TS]

  the ship accordingly Joe do you have any [TS]

  initial thoughts that you want to share [TS]

  about arrival I like a clean i had not [TS]

  read the short story and if I ever [TS]

  listened to the comfortable episode [TS]

  about it i completely forgot which is [TS]

  how i do most of the book episodes and [TS]

  then I usually remember that i wanted to [TS]

  read something based on what you had [TS]

  talked about and eventually get around [TS]

  to it [TS]

  we call that the modified McNulty rule [TS]

  which is a few of you you for even [TS]

  forget about listening to podcast about [TS]

  books you might read yeah and it's so it [TS]

  worked it worked out okay in terms of I [TS]

  like the movie but now i have tried to [TS]

  go back and read the book I didn't [TS]

  manage before this podcast though and I [TS]

  know going into it that the two are not [TS]

  directly related in enough of a way that [TS]

  would seriously impact my movie-going [TS]

  experience so i'm a i'm kind of a happy [TS]

  that I did get the the fresh take on it [TS]

  I wasn't worried about any sort of [TS]

  divergence from from the plot of the [TS]

  book and I I should specify it's not [TS]

  even a book it's a short stories about [TS]

  70 pages long in in a collection of [TS]

  short stories called stories of your [TS]

  life and others but the actual story [TS]

  story of your life is about 70 pages [TS]

  long [TS]

  it's not exciting but not quite a [TS]

  novella right it's like yeah maybe it's [TS]

  a short novella is its short story [TS]

  feeling [TS]

  yeah i just started with the beginning [TS]

  of the book in there it's like some [TS]

  Babylon tower thing [TS]

  oh yeah that's that's a pretty good [TS]

  story but they're not related you don't [TS]

  you don't have to read them anymore but [TS]

  I like that one too that was weird is it [TS]

  he's a good writer like just wanted to [TS]

  get some context did her the will get [TS]

  done but still but now I i like the [TS]

  execution of this movie like being said [TS]

  I do have some quibbles with it a [TS]

  particularly in terms of execution of [TS]

  some hair or something um ok [TS]

  yeah but the overall i have really [TS]

  positive feelings about about what I saw [TS]

  and I think part of that is the film's [TS]

  optimistic a tone that it sets in spite [TS]

  of a certain bittersweet moments that [TS]

  you might have in your life so i really [TS]

  look forward to discussing that all [TS]

  right today so I'm it's like I'm drawing [TS]

  opening statements out of people who [TS]

  have not John you have some initial [TS]

  thoughts before we blow the spoiler horn [TS]

  I guess I'm the third one who also [TS]

  didn't read the short story and may or [TS]

  may not have listened to the incompetent [TS]

  episode about and i'm pretty sure i did [TS]

  but i think like it wasn't one of those [TS]

  ones where you you talk about a lot of [TS]

  things and I think I may be managed to [TS]

  talk about this story without actually [TS]

  spoiling it because I I think that's [TS]

  probably about it [TS]

  yeah i think we talked about the flavor [TS]

  of the shape of it yeah yeah i didn't i [TS]

  didn't know how it was gonna turn out [TS]

  but it's not like I was watching oh yeah [TS]

  I kind of know this is gonna turn out [TS]

  like i didn't i didn't had no memory of [TS]

  it at all and I and likely not mostly [TS]

  went to it based on Jason's raves it and [TS]

  a couple of the people said good things [TS]

  about to but you were raving about him [TS]

  like ah right well then I guess what we [TS]

  took the whole family because I figured [TS]

  what the heck [TS]

  although my daughter was bored by it but [TS]

  yeah I i we didn't take the kids because [TS]

  i figured that they would probably [TS]

  keyboard yeah it's a little slow but [TS]

  anyway I'm I i had seen the trailers a [TS]

  little bit of the trailers I had avoided [TS]

  any spoilers that it wasn't spoiled for [TS]

  this movie and and I wanted to see it [TS]

  kind of the same way I see a lot of [TS]

  movies where I feel like I want to [TS]

  support the kind of movie I like to see [TS]

  made and even if I didn't like this [TS]

  movie at all like well it's one of those [TS]

  kind of seems like serious [TS]

  character-driven sci-fi stories and I [TS]

  more I wish there was more of those like [TS]

  it doesn't always have to be you know a [TS]

  Marvel movie are you blowing up aliens [TS]

  or even like a space opera star wars [TS]

  like you know just playing outside [TS]

  families just not enough that's what the [TS]

  reason I see oblivion even though it's [TS]

  not great you know just like i watch i [TS]

  watch almost anything that promises to [TS]

  be a semi-serious sci-fi movie and I [TS]

  thought this movie was executed in an [TS]

  interesting way and told the story that [TS]

  I hadn't seen you know told in movies [TS]

  that often i think i like they're [TS]

  probably less than everybody else's [TS]

  opinion ever heard so far but i totally [TS]

  want there to be more movies like this [TS]

  and I appreciate a lot of things about [TS]

  this movie is just it the story in the [TS]

  end doesn't hold together for me but [TS]

  just don't I ask you one question about [TS]

  the film which is if you had this [TS]

  reaction which was that the depiction of [TS]

  like setting stuff up in a tent and the [TS]

  kind of stuff that computers were doing [TS]

  seemed actually okay like it [TS]

  it struck me as not exaggerating the [TS]

  potential even though we can tell it's [TS]

  maybe slightly in the future I'm not [TS]

  sure maybe tiny bit that it felt [TS]

  realistic and earthy that was that's the [TS]

  least of my concerns like this point i'm [TS]

  so so willing to you know they it was [TS]

  beneath the level of my concern if i can [TS]

  let you have to really be egregiously [TS]

  terrible at showing technology from you [TS]

  to notice at this point and they [TS]

  everything was fine and notice the [TS]

  little bit of the idea of like the [TS]

  beautiful design graphics showing when [TS]

  people are the countries are [TS]

  disconnected as a as a movie isn't the [TS]

  jumped out a little bit i have no that's [TS]

  not part of what I the problems i [TS]

  haven't I can't really talk about [TS]

  spoiling I only bring it up because the [TS]

  I feel like there's also some [TS]

  science-fiction movies are spoiled for [TS]

  me now because I feel like some of the [TS]

  fundamental stuff they're showing not [TS]

  just the technology but the kind of [TS]

  interaction what things are expected to [TS]

  do break for me [TS]

  so much i can't get over the suspension [TS]

  of disbelief there's too much and radium [TS]

  without enough story underneath it in [TS]

  this case I felt like that they depicted [TS]

  technology realistically and very [TS]

  plainly in the middle of what was a very [TS]

  technologically sophisticated thing [TS]

  happening and that to me maybe know the [TS]

  more I felt more real to meet and feels [TS]

  distant you had a light touch with all [TS]

  that stuff like they weren't the entire [TS]

  movie had a light touch which I [TS]

  appreciated but they weren't going to [TS]

  tell that the events that took place uh [TS]

  and very often were like oh I've seen it [TS]

  seen like this in 55 movies but they [TS]

  weren't shown the way they're normally [TS]

  shown and the things they would you [TS]

  would expect them to do well on there [TS]

  like actually that's not what we really [TS]

  care about this movie I mean the whole [TS]

  the opening of the movies is a great [TS]

  tell because it doesn't open with you [TS]

  know [TS]

  ominous throwing and pictures of space [TS]

  and aliens like it'sit's a human story [TS]

  starts with it with the our main [TS]

  character narrating and it's about her [TS]

  for the entire movie essentially and she [TS]

  she tells a story and it like it starts [TS]

  the same way you can imagine like a [TS]

  family drama starting or something you [TS]

  know what I mean like that and that [TS]

  that's how the movie plays throughout [TS]

  and it's almost almost incidental that [TS]

  there's this alien syfy angle to it [TS]

  really is a character-driven story and [TS]

  you know except this is I would love to [TS]

  see more movies like this because i [TS]

  think this is a great combination of you [TS]

  know serious character-driven story with [TS]

  a sci-fi setting thrown in shot in an [TS]

  interesting way [TS]

  so before we before we dive into [TS]

  spoilers are a couple of the topics that [TS]

  I wanted to at least mention that i [TS]

  think are our kind of free of the plot [TS]

  of this movie and it's this this movie [TS]

  has some plot i don't know if i want to [TS]

  say twist but it has some surprises [TS]

  throughout that I think it's better I [TS]

  think aliens suggestion that we use the [TS]

  spoiler horn is is is a good one [TS]

  although it one of the things i will say [TS]

  now is it [TS]

  I don't feel like this is a puzzle box [TS]

  movie where the goal is to solve the [TS]

  puzzle or be surprised by the puzzle i [TS]

  think it's in it enjoyable story all the [TS]

  way through even though there are [TS]

  surprises as it goes but i really wanted [TS]

  to bring up i want to bring up the eye [TS]

  can see direction i could say [TS]

  cinematography it this i think this [TS]

  movie looks really good and then also [TS]

  the muse [TS]

  sick it sounds really good just on those [TS]

  levels i think the pacing of it the way [TS]

  it's shot especially a lot of this takes [TS]

  place out in the field [TS]

  I mean there's like there's a there's a [TS]

  house on a lake and there's a which is [TS]

  beautiful but there's this field in [TS]

  Montana or Wyoming or wherever they're [TS]

  out out and on the plains there's this [TS]

  field with a big spaceship hovering over [TS]

  it sort of and it's just slow camera [TS]

  movements and beautiful beautifully shot [TS]

  and I just think it's a [TS]

  beautiful-looking movie and a very [TS]

  restrained movie and I talking about [TS]

  john-john saying i wanna i wanna have [TS]

  more movies like this there are so many [TS]

  especially genre movies that are not [TS]

  restrained and this is a very restrained [TS]

  movie you can see the sort of discipline [TS]

  we're going to take our time we're going [TS]

  to move slow [TS]

  we're not going to push this too fast [TS]

  and I really like really liked all of [TS]

  that in the look and the feel of it i'm [TS]

  so glad you said to restring these I was [TS]

  thinking restraint was the thing is it's [TS]

  quiet in spots they have their time the [TS]

  alien ships are not fancy [TS]

  we don't know anything about how they [TS]

  work really it's not important [TS]

  it reminds me of some 1960 sci-fi films [TS]

  are some really elaborate stuff in the [TS]

  sixties it goes way over the top of [TS]

  course but then there's a few quieter [TS]

  films that are very spare and restrained [TS]

  some avant-garde movies that aren't even [TS]

  sci-fi but they're slightly magical [TS]

  realistic where things happen unfold in [TS]

  a way that doesn't seem entirely linear [TS]

  I was thinking particularly of the [TS]

  original solaris which is more active [TS]

  and has more kind of a sci-fi vibe to it [TS]

  and this film does in this bill has [TS]

  aliens in it but it has moments in [TS]

  solaris there's just this kind of [TS]

  repetitive thing or quietness or someone [TS]

  staring and it has more power because [TS]

  it's not genetic it's wonderful and I [TS]

  want to try some similarities i guess to [TS]

  contact if people are you know thinking [TS]

  about ya dip it was much more [TS]

  conventional this so much more democracy [TS]

  yeah but it's it's still the kind of [TS]

  story they're trying to tell about a [TS]

  person and their interaction with [TS]

  something beyond it's not it's not as a [TS]

  space opera ask it took it so seriously [TS]

  serious on by i mean i think they [TS]

  diverge widely at in terms of how much [TS]

  they care about character versus how [TS]

  much they care about the science but [TS]

  both of them i would file as serious [TS]

  sci-fi movies made essentially for [TS]

  adults and it's just that I I you know I [TS]

  everyone contact is so much more [TS]

  conventional in terms of just how [TS]

  everything is shot how everything is lit [TS]

  the the events to take place the music [TS]

  everything about it this is arrivals [TS]

  almost more like an arthouse movie [TS]

  compared to contact [TS]

  yeah but they they are in terms of most [TS]

  what movie is this movie's most like I [TS]

  that's probably what I would say is [TS]

  contact and the only other alternative I [TS]

  could I could come up with is probably a [TS]

  christopher nolan movie like memento or [TS]

  the prestige which are which are very [TS]

  different movies and yet there's [TS]

  something about the vibe of this that [TS]

  reminded me of some of those the non bad [TS]

  man Christopher Nolan movies uh I don't [TS]

  know that those the best ones that I [TS]

  could come up with but I think contact [TS]

  is probably the the most comparable ha [TS]

  whoo yeah not not in terms of execution [TS]

  of no no ya didn't watch solaris good i [TS]

  think that was a good comparison the [TS]

  original solaris no it's just I yeah I [TS]

  find it i find that kind of beautiful [TS]

  and and gentlemen a lot of ways that you [TS]

  know so many movies assault us and it's [TS]

  nice to feel like again this is a like [TS]

  that i think that's what John is getting [TS]

  out this is this is a sci-fi movie for [TS]

  adults like it is it is defiantly for [TS]

  adults it's not for bring the whole [TS]

  family and I think even though you can I [TS]

  mean there's not many other than some [TS]

  language you it's fine i just think kids [TS]

  will be kinda bored and I think [TS]

  teenagers will probably be bored bored [TS]

  by 2 because it's not like single and [TS]

  make it an older kid can get wrapped up [TS]

  in it because it's one of those movies [TS]

  where like it's slow but if you get [TS]

  caught up in it that slowness that's [TS]

  tension that's like you're looking at [TS]

  every you have enough times there like [TS]

  the little rough texture on the edge of [TS]

  the little tunnel going up into the ship [TS]

  you haven't had time to think about [TS]

  these things and to dwell on them and [TS]

  and to look at the mist covering the [TS]

  field and like I feel like kind of like [TS]

  I said like jaws but kind of like it a [TS]

  lot of the older movies from decades [TS]

  past where they were slow paced and they [TS]

  don't grab you it's just like a boring [TS]

  movie but they do grab you that slow [TS]

  pace is like you just feel like you're [TS]

  being pulled along by string through the [TS]

  whole movie you just you just can't wait [TS]

  to see it unfold [TS]

  I've got another comp by the way I'm [TS]

  gonna throw in here the slowness and [TS]

  restrain this actually reminded me of [TS]

  unbreakable a little bit which is a [TS]

  movie i love oh yeah there's this [TS]

  definitely Shyamalan anything here [TS]

  yeah i'm yeah looks good the good kind [TS]

  of a good point [TS]

  not the kind where there's an elevator [TS]

  that's the devil but I you said you [TS]

  didn't think this was a puzzle box movie [TS]

  and I agree it's not you're not trying [TS]

  to like figure it out but I feel like to [TS]

  the turn in this movie I wouldn't call [TS]

  the twist that were called the turn [TS]

  yeah the turn in this movie because i [TS]

  didn't know anything about the short [TS]

  story i really appreciate it because i [TS]

  felt like it kind of like blossomed as I [TS]

  realize what they were doing right in a [TS]

  pleasant way I in a way that made me [TS]

  appreciate that you think that was the [TS]

  high point of the movie for me when I [TS]

  when I realized what they were doing [TS]

  like are you know around the turn part [TS]

  kind of want a little bit downhill after [TS]

  that [TS]

  but when I realized what they were doing [TS]

  timeline wise kind of like another thing [TS]

  that that's another piece of media that [TS]

  we won't talk about because we want to [TS]

  spoil that and this particular podcast I [TS]

  I appreciate that unlike a big smile [TS]

  came across my face and like very well [TS]

  done because I need you know just [TS]

  ripples backwards and you realize with [TS]

  the hoping of the movie and what they [TS]

  were getting at was like good job i felt [TS]

  like giving them a little bit of [TS]

  applause there and that's a pleasant [TS]

  sensation better than the haha didn't [TS]

  you know the twist was whatever like it [TS]

  was totally even even the twist was [TS]

  gentle twist was a turn [TS]

  yeah no you're right this does uh the [TS]

  film does exactly what the story doesn't [TS]

  that's one of the qualities that [TS]

  captures which we can talk about more [TS]

  for the spoiler but it diffuses what you [TS]

  learn sort of backwards and forward in [TS]

  time so it actually rebuild in your mind [TS]

  what you think you've just read or seen [TS]

  and the film did it i want to say almost [TS]

  perfectly they had a structured [TS]

  differently in the in the story some of [TS]

  the stuff comes later they don't shows [TS]

  what that he doesn't want to them i [TS]

  think give you too much of the [TS]

  information but you have to present [TS]

  visually you have to keep people in [TS]

  because otherwise it would be [TS]

  sudden twist and it wouldn't make sense [TS]

  so the way they kind of rippled it in [TS]

  the film i think was the perfect [TS]

  cinematic analog to what the story [TS]

  unfolded as alright I am going to now [TS]

  play a a transcript of the alien [TS]

  language as heard in the movie arrival [TS]

  no it's actually it's just the spoiler [TS]

  horn but they're similar here it is [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  ok whoo boy that you right up oh yeah [TS]

  it's it makes a circle with any way you [TS]

  see the spoiler horn so i can understand [TS]

  what this one's trying to say [TS]

  yeah okay all all spoilers have been [TS]

  cleared now we can now talk about what [TS]

  happened what happens in this movie and [TS]

  you know it's the thing knowing having [TS]

  read the story the very beginning of the [TS]

  movie i actually said this to Lauren [TS]

  when we were walking out to the car at [TS]

  the end i said it's there in the first [TS]

  line like the first line of the movie is [TS]

  I used to think that your story began [TS]

  here but now I'm not so sure [TS]

  right so it sits there from the [TS]

  beginning and what a move [TS]

  I mean I guess up like maybe up to come [TS]

  to hear want to move to have the first [TS]

  part of this movie it's okay we're gonna [TS]

  go see a movie about aliens and it's no [TS]

  it's actually about a mother caring for [TS]

  her dying child and then the child dies [TS]

  Wow okay that's that's where we start I [TS]

  was bawling to my friend of mine said [TS]

  she'd said I cried heavily three times [TS]

  during the film I was crying two minutes [TS]

  and I was like oh they already just [TS]

  totally got their hooks in me I was [TS]

  crying during the during the trailers [TS]

  plan to discover bad those movies aren't [TS]

  that bad oh you know it is it is well [TS]

  because what it sets it as the tone of [TS]

  the movie is you're watching a story of [TS]

  a woman who is trying to piece her life [TS]

  back together after a horrible tragedy [TS]

  which is not what the movie is that [TS]

  you're actually watching and it's it's [TS]

  interesting to me because there are a [TS]

  lot of and I don't know parallels isn't [TS]

  exactly the right word but there are [TS]

  things that i can very deeply relate to [TS]

  you i have several several sets of [TS]

  friends who have actually lost their [TS]

  daughters to childhood cancer and and i [TS]

  have been there and supported them [TS]

  through that and and I have been there [TS]

  in the aftermath of that and watching [TS]

  them do that work and so I was like oh [TS]

  wow ok and i also teach college classes [TS]

  and somehow watching her go to school [TS]

  and like having this this level of [TS]

  empathy for her is she's like I think [TS]

  you know we're trying trying to teach [TS]

  students and move on with her life [TS]

  and you know go home and talk with her [TS]

  mom and like all of the stuff I'm like [TS]

  you know how how does like feel after [TS]

  that you know from from her perspective [TS]

  and so I was like I can't imagine [TS]

  teaching class you know after my [TS]

  daughter died and and in keeping it [TS]

  together and in teaching about languages [TS]

  and and how do you find your purpose in [TS]

  that and you know like all of those [TS]

  things so it was like immediately I was [TS]

  like oh wow this is right in the feels [TS]

  right in the feels right off the bat i [TS]

  also thought about but I was also [TS]

  thinking during that whole section where [TS]

  is the other parent for this child and [TS]

  it was like a first-time light is just [TS]

  bad movie making where they didn't cast [TS]

  that part it's not important and then [TS]

  like well no this is just more part of [TS]

  her very tragic story that she's been [TS]

  raising this girl alone and she asked to [TS]

  help this girl died alone like that you [TS]

  know that that's part of the tragedy [TS]

  evidence that and and I like the fact [TS]

  that my my questions and puzzling about [TS]

  that were nicely then logically answered [TS]

  later in the movie you know after the [TS]

  turn their addressed in the middle [TS]

  because at one point there's that scene [TS]

  where she's helping her daughter do her [TS]

  homework and says I just didn't like [TS]

  father it was science ask your father [TS]

  yeah that's not like he's out of the [TS]

  picture like yeah you know that you know [TS]

  that they split so hard that he's just [TS]

  didn't want to have anything to do with [TS]

  the daughter anymore or you know like [TS]

  yeah any day that that's that's that I [TS]

  where I consider the turn to have [TS]

  happened is probably way before the [TS]

  movie thinks it's revealing it because [TS]

  they did leave lots of clues right so i [TS]

  probably the pieces like right yeah [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  you know I mean and also law of [TS]

  conservation of characters and so on and [TS]

  so forth but I it doesn't matter where [TS]

  it occurs i think it was it was it was [TS]

  nice it was this is a sturdily [TS]

  constructed turn [TS]

  yeah that no matter where you get it is [TS]

  satisfying and and yea and all and it [TS]

  really helps that all those scenes work [TS]

  both before you know and they work after [TS]

  and it's not like they only work after [TS]

  or they may you know like it's just it's [TS]

  just good movie making you know i won't [TS]

  ask folks we have read the story I [TS]

  didn't even understand this alien until [TS]

  you just said it is one of the first [TS]

  things came up I was so wrapped up and [TS]

  seeing the story i love on screen and I [TS]

  was a niners to the time sequence [TS]

  because I dread it [TS]

  so the daughter we see her you know [TS]

  dying and then the mothers it's good no [TS]

  Louise is teaching I never thought about [TS]

  that as the emotional reaction of her [TS]

  daughter just died like the [TS]

  chronological sequence and she's back [TS]

  teaching and this is why she looks sort [TS]

  of morose because I knew the order of [TS]

  things happening it never struck me [TS]

  until you decide and straight until you [TS]

  just said that [TS]

  yeah I met and how douchey process the [TS]

  arrival of aliens it's like you're all [TS]

  your thinking when you watch that scene [TS]

  it's all about that she's coping with [TS]

  this loss [TS]

  he's not actually what you're saying [TS]

  yeah because it's very traditionally it [TS]

  in terms of the mechanics of traditional [TS]

  movie making these would-be flashbacks [TS]

  because we haven't seen the movie yet so [TS]

  I that not only makes logical sense if [TS]

  you if you're not familiar with the [TS]

  story I and one of the other interesting [TS]

  things that they didn't use a flash [TS]

  forward flashbacks is that they she [TS]

  looks exactly the same [TS]

  they didn't do any aging makeup or the [TS]

  other touch-up work or anything [TS]

  she always looks like amy adams of the [TS]

  present throughout the entire film [TS]

  whenever she's in one of these altered [TS]

  time states and i think at first I [TS]

  wasn't sure why they chose to do that [TS]

  but then after you find out what the [TS]

  twist is it's like oh because if you saw [TS]

  an old Amy Adams with her child has been [TS]

  alive for 20-something years then it [TS]

  isn't was willing to accept it in the [TS]

  movie it made it seem like she was [TS]

  entertained but I don't they probably [TS]

  were careful with it that's the one part [TS]

  of this movie that probably doesn't read [TS]

  the same in both directions only because [TS]

  they're trying to not give anything away [TS]

  they're subtle but I had that same [TS]

  ecology age as well I mean I probably [TS]

  just put on less makeup and hit her [TS]

  crow's feet less well and maybe did a [TS]

  little touch-up on the hair but honestly [TS]

  you know various not as if you're going [TS]

  to change to a wrinkled old hag and 15 [TS]

  years especially if you you know that I [TS]

  the only thing that the thing that [TS]

  struck me about this both isn't it's not [TS]

  a timeline question is the story of how [TS]

  she comes from a family that makes your [TS]

  independently wealthy because there's no [TS]

  way and a professor salary that you can [TS]

  have the house in the lac all by herself [TS]

  there's a lot of those fantasy movie as [TS]

  it was a beautiful house apparently the [TS]

  house when they when they went into the [TS]

  home and [TS]

  and Ryan you know what the hell of a [TS]

  place it isn't that the show is in case [TS]

  shot and came back I thought it was out [TS]

  here actually yeah it's like it's [TS]

  exactly like washing it looks like [TS]

  Washington I had that same thought I [TS]

  just assumed that she was in seattle and [TS]

  that was exhausted and open and since [TS]

  since the author is from seattle right [TS]

  doesn't change that from seeing exactly [TS]

  that is why do I assume that that's that [TS]

  was at least an homage to that if [TS]

  nothing else I think so I mean I think [TS]

  they set up the community in the college [TS]

  that she teaches at a community college [TS]

  what has that feeling of like a 1960s [TS]

  built Community College just the brick [TS]

  and whatever so lean this is the time [TS]

  where we should talk since since makeup [TS]

  and Amy Adams came up we should talk [TS]

  about this and it's something and like i [TS]

  said in the review that i read to which [TS]

  is Amy Adams look this is a movie Amy [TS]

  Adams is made up in this movie but she's [TS]

  not made up to be like glamorous [TS]

  glamorous yeah she's made up to be like [TS]

  a person living their life and that is [TS]

  not usually what happens when women are [TS]

  in movies [TS]

  yeah yeah and and I think as I said at [TS]

  the beginning I think that's part of why [TS]

  i love this movie so much as it's [TS]

  because and I mean there are a lot of [TS]

  ways that can relate to her but one of [TS]

  them is a I don't wear makeup everyday [TS]

  and some days I don't even brush my hair [TS]

  I work from home so and often work from [TS]

  home so you know it in there were times [TS]

  when it it looked like she had gone [TS]

  directly from her cot on site to the [TS]

  computer to you know they're the better [TS]

  no blueprints of of the language or [TS]

  whatever and and I loved that because at [TS]

  no point was she [TS]

  well okay one point she was an address [TS]

  to the nines with every hair in place [TS]

  right but the rest of the time she just [TS]

  looked normal and that's not something I [TS]

  get in movies you know we get hair is [TS]

  precisely in place and perfect you know [TS]

  whatever winged eyeliner i don't even [TS]

  really know what that means if you have [TS]

  things like that and so it was so [TS]

  refreshing to see someone look real to [TS]

  see a woman look real in a movie and not [TS]

  only that she looked real and she was [TS]

  respected [TS]

  yeah and not only was she respected she [TS]

  turned them away like she did not bow to [TS]

  the government you know too that was [TS]

  what does this rank colonel-general [TS]

  whatever he was her and all she did he [TS]

  she was like okay walk away I'm better [TS]

  you ask him this question you come back [TS]

  to me you will come back to me in and [TS]

  she was just honest you're strong and [TS]

  amazing and respected and real [TS]

  throughout the movie in a way that I [TS]

  don't know that I've ever seen [TS]

  can I ask you about there's a scene [TS]

  early on that I thought set the tone too [TS]

  is when they go into 10 and ian is [TS]

  introduced and she is not reduced unlike [TS]

  the colonel is doing that typical thing [TS]

  of these disrespecting woman that's not [TS]

  gonna be a plot point that he takes her [TS]

  to the other tenses she this is your [TS]

  team you're in charge and I went oh my [TS]

  god this is not what I was expecting [TS]

  I don't remember it wasn't set up in the [TS]

  story she is part of a party man charged [TS]

  but just the casual business casual miss [TS]

  of military leader like doing what was [TS]

  directed here in this is the team your [TS]

  part of boom [TS]

  Louise this your team these people [TS]

  working for you I had that moment she [TS]

  was like oh he's gonna say something [TS]

  weird to her and I'm gonna get mad and i [TS]

  did not i was i was world and I superly [TS]

  she just she did whatever the F she [TS]

  wanted [TS]

  I think she you know she saw the [TS]

  whiteboard she took the whiteboard in [TS]

  and was like this this is what I'm doing [TS]

  she and going to check off the hazmat [TS]

  suit in the caverns that she could [TS]

  communicate better without you no [TS]

  permission without vetting it with [TS]

  anybody she just did it and I i don't [TS]

  know i really love to seeing all of that [TS]

  it just and in a way that I can't really [TS]

  Express only to say that you know this [TS]

  is this is why representation in media [TS]

  matters why women need to see ourselves [TS]

  depicted why people of color need to see [TS]

  themselves in amazing roles so I've got [TS]

  two notes one is um I like as the movie [TS]

  progresses the the San Francisco [TS]

  Chronicle review by Peter Hartlaub said [TS]

  it literally looks like amy adams and [TS]

  jeremy renner just kinda like kept [TS]

  shooting and sleeping in their clothes [TS]

  and shoot and really it feels like [TS]

  they're there it you know so many movies [TS]

  can make it was like yeah I [TS]

  know that they're actually out there [TS]

  working around the clock and they've [TS]

  been there for weeks but there they [TS]

  totally got it together and they look [TS]

  beautiful and fashionable it's like nope [TS]

  they they look like they got thrown on a [TS]

  helicopter and put out in the middle of [TS]

  nowhere and are getting no sleep and [TS]

  they're trying to figure this out and it [TS]

  really works for the the idea that [TS]

  they're trying to work this problem and [TS]

  figure this out but they do look like [TS]

  they've been sleeping in their clothes [TS]

  and it's and it's good and it's [TS]

  effective and the other thing i want to [TS]

  say talk about forest whitaker for a [TS]

  second is the colonel i really like [TS]

  forest whitaker I mean force which is [TS]

  great but in this movie I really like [TS]

  him because it's very clear that his job [TS]

  is to be a conduit and he's not like we [TS]

  see in so many movies this like totally [TS]

  bullheaded military man who's gonna [TS]

  who's gonna say all you scientists you [TS]

  don't even know he he's very much like [TS]

  you need to explain it to me so that I [TS]

  can explain it to them because the the [TS]

  people I'm talking to don't hear you and [TS]

  I need to let you know i need to make [TS]

  this all work and that's his job is to [TS]

  be that conduit and he doesn't he pushes [TS]

  back on them but when he does it's for [TS]

  good reason and it generally is because [TS]

  he knows the politics up the chain and I [TS]

  really liked that felt like a much more [TS]

  realistic performance of a and a [TS]

  character in a role in this in this [TS]

  story and and you know forest whitaker [TS]

  did it really well and more importantly [TS]

  to Louise's whole story of her being [TS]

  plopped down in there whatever she comes [TS]

  in and you know she doesn't think she [TS]

  tries to be assertive with the deal [TS]

  being made for her and her competitor [TS]

  linguist or whatever everyone to [TS]

  eventually goes there she is you know [TS]

  nervous about what its gonna be like and [TS]

  she tries to assert herself but forest [TS]

  whitaker makes it clear that there are [TS]

  opposing forces here and so it's not [TS]

  like she comes in is just all of a [TS]

  sudden in charge of everybody and is you [TS]

  know it is it is a it is a nice balance [TS]

  like it's not as if the world lays down [TS]

  before her and merely because she is a [TS]

  sort of everything goes your way [TS]

  immediately there are challenges there [TS]

  are there other powers and charges she [TS]

  asked to deal with she has to be [TS]

  convincing to them she gets pushed back [TS]

  she doesn't get everything that she [TS]

  wants immediately it is a much more [TS]

  reasonable example of multiple people [TS]

  all trying to do that [TS]

  right thing with strong personalities [TS]

  and skills coming to an agreement and i [TS]

  would say like both this and with the [TS]

  women who are constantly in Regulus [TS]

  makeup sci-fi does both of these things [TS]

  better than many other genres because [TS]

  very often it involves multiple smart [TS]

  people trying to do the right thing [TS]

  working towards a common goal which is a [TS]

  nice thing to see you don't see a lot of [TS]

  other movies where they have to have [TS]

  like a villain all the time and not [TS]

  there are a lot of them but if of all [TS]

  the genres that are well-known sci-fi is [TS]

  more likely to it than others to have a [TS]

  woman character who is not there [TS]

  constantly made up all the time anyway [TS]

  there's not many examples but like that [TS]

  but I was trying to think of other [TS]

  characters that are like this [TS]

  women who are allowed to do a job and [TS]

  not constantly be glamorous women who [TS]

  are allowed to look damp and sweaty [TS]

  because they're there in a hot spaceship [TS]

  or they're on the the the fog ridden [TS]

  plains of Montana or whatever you've got [TS]

  ripley in the alien movies you've got a [TS]

  series of you know female marines and [TS]

  various future scenarios where it's not [TS]

  all about the glamour that's basically [TS]

  the only time they'll actresses to [TS]

  appear not you know that not look like [TS]

  they'd spent two hours in hair and [TS]

  makeup before they arrived and we go [TS]

  back to Jodie Foster in contact right [TS]

  right i mean she's got a ponytail right [TS]

  and she's running around and she's [TS]

  sleeping in our clothes and I I you know [TS]

  she's obviously I'm probably more made [TS]

  up the name e adams in this but i still [TS]

  think like you know it in these movies [TS]

  they still have a scene where the bank [TS]

  jodie foster gets get dressed up in the [TS]

  fancy dress for her one seen this one [TS]

  has the yeah meeting with the ambassador [TS]

  and there but fine like you you give [TS]

  them that but the rest of the time the [TS]

  because of the because of the settings [TS]

  like if you're going to have really [TS]

  running around the spaceship and she's [TS]

  not going to be wearing like you know [TS]

  Princess Leia outfit the whole time [TS]

  she's not she's not a princess she [TS]

  started working on the ship the ship is [TS]

  gross and it's filled with you know [TS]

  temperature fluctuations and and [TS]

  moisture and aliens the drip things on [TS]

  you and you know she's allowed to look [TS]

  like that for the whole movie and it's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  one of the moments where I really like [TS]

  for Amy Adams is when she [TS]

  is explaining the question that the [TS]

  general would like to start the colonel [TS]

  would like them to ask what they would [TS]

  like to get to anyone he doesn't feel [TS]

  like they're moving fast enough and she [TS]

  breaks it down in a really amazing way [TS]

  that died sex all the complexity of of [TS]

  the problem that is in front of them a [TS]

  takes up to something that looks so easy [TS]

  and presents you with every facet of of [TS]

  difficulty in communicating with these [TS]

  beings who have just started to refer to [TS]

  in terms of names so it's quite nice and [TS]

  it really it you reinforces her [TS]

  particular strengths in a way that none [TS]

  of the other characters in the film are [TS]

  able to provide even the scientists [TS]

  doesn't let me know Jeremy Renner [TS]

  doesn't understand really much of [TS]

  anything about communicating with the [TS]

  aliens he's what was your life like the [TS]

  piece like the bimbo in this movie I was [TS]

  jeremy renner there is just therefore i [TS]

  can do to help those who help us to be [TS]

  the science guy but he was so little [TS]

  help with the science so happy but they [TS]

  have a baby so you need a guy and really [TS]

  I'm not really had it especially [TS]

  interesting role reversal were nothing [TS]

  like the woman would be there just to be [TS]

  like every once in awhile say somethin [TS]

  to show ya no I'm really a science [TS]

  person but you know he was supposed to [TS]

  be on top in case they know they shoot a [TS]

  bunch of physics in the story there's [TS]

  there's a there's more of that they're [TS]

  not a team like that they just work you [TS]

  know it's a it's set up separately but i [TS]

  think they carried over that feeling [TS]

  into the movie without any of the actual [TS]

  like any other teaching us some physics [TS]

  as we go but we can't figure out how to [TS]

  talk about physics because their [TS]

  conception of physics is a totally [TS]

  different thing than ours and he owned [TS]

  the only thing you have the movies he [TS]

  had the he got the one in twelve [TS]

  pointing at the they put all the symbols [TS]

  up and he figured out the 112 fraction [TS]

  and that's essentially isn't his entire [TS]

  contribution he wasn't even particularly [TS]

  supportive of anybody just kind of came [TS]

  in and it's like sitting back and [TS]

  watching I mean he's a supporting [TS]

  character it's fine but it is an [TS]

  interesting reversal where normally the [TS]

  token woman would be the one who's there [TS]

  who has the supposed job and is allowed [TS]

  to demonstrate your skill for some [TS]

  simple thing but one could argue this is [TS]

  within the structure of the film the [TS]

  reason is there is because he was there [TS]

  yeah not [TS]

  because you know you're the only had to [TS]

  be there because you had to be there so [TS]

  they could fall in love at the trial [TS]

  that's just what I'm gonna have to do [TS]

  have important conversations like it i [TS]

  think that the most important role is [TS]

  like aside from the romantic thing is [TS]

  the bloody angle the two of them kind of [TS]

  come into this together [TS]

  yeah are kind of in over their heads [TS]

  together like a one of the more [TS]

  important scenes I feel like it as the [TS]

  turn was revealing itself was sitting [TS]

  out there just like away from the camp [TS]

  for a little bit and just talking and [TS]

  and you know talking / mild flirting [TS]

  colored by the weird situation saying [TS]

  like you know boy it must be handy to be [TS]

  an expert in communication with inches [TS]

  believe me you can end up alone even if [TS]

  you're an expert in which works in both [TS]

  directions because you're like oh yeah [TS]

  no she's alone because whatever whoever [TS]

  scientist has been frightening [TS]

  oversizing her husband signs at this [TS]

  point you wherever husband wasn't there [TS]

  when her daughter died earlier in the [TS]

  movie so boy she must be said but you [TS]

  know as we learned later she's also long [TS]

  before that so that statement works fine [TS]

  in both directions and it shows that [TS]

  they are you know that they have a [TS]

  connection yet so I uh I want to talk [TS]

  about the art direction a little bit [TS]

  before we talk about some more Pilate [TS]

  things and talk about like I know I [TS]

  mentioned some of this before the [TS]

  spoiler horn but like I like the weird [TS]

  texture of the spaceship [TS]

  I like the weird entryway into the [TS]

  spaceship that's an example where how do [TS]

  you take a 70-page story and you make it [TS]

  into a movie [TS]

  well one thing is you go through instead [TS]

  of into sentences explaining how you get [TS]

  into the spaceship you take the time to [TS]

  slowly drive out to the spaceship and [TS]

  get on the thing that's gonna lift you [TS]

  up to the place where the gravity [TS]

  changes and now you're going sideways [TS]

  and when you look back [TS]

  you're looking down and all of that [TS]

  right let's yell down the theater don't [TS]

  look back don't know there's a moment [TS]

  where somebody is a jeremy renner maybe [TS]

  he's like totally freaking out [TS]

  oh yeah and he looks back after he jumps [TS]

  it was like no no don't do that don't do [TS]

  that but i really liked it is [TS]

  atmospheric and it's one of those things [TS]

  where they could've skipped ahead right [TS]

  but the first time you go into the [TS]

  spaceship you're going in with them and [TS]

  it's it's like it's a weird rough like [TS]

  out like a lava rock or something and [TS]

  they've got they've jury-rigged this [TS]

  you know human tech to get you up the [TS]

  lifter to get you up and then the [TS]

  gravity gets weird and you know I liked [TS]

  all of that I thought that was all [TS]

  really clever and I enjoyed the fact [TS]

  that we took the time to set the mood of [TS]

  like entering this alien spaceship [TS]

  thingy i will say though I well I agree [TS]

  that afterwards I did think you know [TS]

  that's not an especially inviting way to [TS]

  talk to people [TS]

  hey you don't want any made the error [TS]

  the right so they could read it so much [TS]

  they made the beautiful hallway they [TS]

  sculpted it out they get everything the [TS]

  right height for humans you want them to [TS]

  have a lift to you know you want a [TS]

  ladder [TS]

  jeez you bring their own sister looks [TS]

  like intelligent tests show it's like [TS]

  putting your name on the paper at least [TS]

  they could do they came light-years to [TS]

  get there please do you go to bring a [TS]

  scissor lift [TS]

  I love the mechanism though because that [TS]

  was that thing where you're like as a [TS]

  sci-fi nerd you never see real sci-fi in [TS]

  enough movies you see stuff that's an [TS]

  approximation and simplification and the [TS]

  idea that the aliens just obviously have [TS]

  control over gravity they've got there [TS]

  hovering ships that are hovering in the [TS]

  air the way that bricks don't write to [TS]

  quote one beside us and and then they [TS]

  have the weird opening because it's just [TS]

  convenient because they just control [TS]

  gravity and the transition where the [TS]

  military guys have already mastered its [TS]

  they leap out Amy Adams a good job the [TS]

  jerky better falls on his face which was [TS]

  again a reversal you're like you're [TS]

  expecting them to be suave and whatever [TS]

  they know he gets the trip but amy adams [TS]

  had to be helped i noticed that part I [TS]

  was like why why do you gotta help the [TS]

  woman and legislative demand i think [TS]

  they redeemed it by having him and I [TS]

  haven't fallen is exactly like that's [TS]

  what it is it shows the unequal [TS]

  treatment that is one of the many things [TS]

  I don't accept but i think that the idea [TS]

  that they have because they control [TS]

  gravity this is a logical thing for the [TS]

  aliens to do it's the most convenient [TS]

  thing for them and then everything is [TS]

  sort of like it's you know it's got that [TS]

  wonderful texture mind a little [TS]

  brutalist architecture the kind of [TS]

  doubling of it but they go into a room [TS]

  and it's a very playing room it's got a [TS]

  big piece of glass in it and there's [TS]

  trillions there is and what it wasn't [TS]

  hard [TS]

  the hard sci-fi part of me was picking [TS]

  it knits around this the section about [TS]

  the whole idea of like what you get when [TS]

  you bring these people into the base you [TS]

  really going to bring them on there [TS]

  without telling exactly what they're in [TS]

  for the yeah they're behind glass like [TS]

  they gave you enough hints so that the [TS]

  audience kind of new [TS]

  what was coming but obviously you would [TS]

  you would tell the people hear the [TS]

  dialogue was when they're coming in [TS]

  there is over top there's a talking [TS]

  going on we'll always and came in and [TS]

  what the science says you have that we [TS]

  at the end of the session the gravity [TS]

  changes slid us gently out yeah it's [TS]

  just like a little bit of background [TS]

  conversation but they're not briefed on [TS]

  it apparently i mean like maybe the [TS]

  audience wouldn't have to know but [TS]

  surely those two people they were tell [TS]

  them exactly undergoing instead of them [TS]

  being surprised when they throw it like [TS]

  the light stick up there and and you [TS]

  they've got scientists there wouldn't [TS]

  you think like pretty much the only [TS]

  thing the scientists would be doing [TS]

  would be like how is the ship hovering [TS]

  there right get the instruments out now [TS]

  like this is the most interesting thing [TS]

  that you it's observable is a gigantic [TS]

  thing and it's not falling want you to [TS]

  get on that kind of that is that's [TS]

  another teenager like available just got [TS]

  the team intense working on that they're [TS]

  a bunch of teams in 10 [TS]

  there's a physics guy and he's just not [TS]

  like what you got it you know you take [TS]

  get some instruments like get some [TS]

  measurements like do something going for [TS]

  the tricorder and wave it around it [TS]

  looks like you're doing something that [TS]

  was driving out there with pickup trucks [TS]

  and saying well suffice it to say that [TS]

  giant thing hovering over us [TS]

  let's disregard that the government of [TS]

  this whole yeah yeah I can be no the [TS]

  thing that made me stop for a moment was [TS]

  was the idea that surely they would be [TS]

  briefed in detail before they were put [TS]

  in hazmat suits and sent into the space [TS]

  right about what do they look like [TS]

  you'll see you'll see the arm and I [TS]

  think there might be some dialogue but [TS]

  you know the idea of like there is this [TS]

  little bit wishy to start fresh and the [TS]

  last guy is that left and we want you to [TS]

  write this with open eyes first before [TS]

  we tell you anything about it but come [TS]

  on it's really so be sure the eyes of [TS]

  the audience [TS]

  it was so clear that the characters [TS]

  didn't know that's fine for the audience [TS]

  not to know because that's like Spencer [TS]

  the audience but it was so clear that [TS]

  the character you didn't know what they [TS]

  were in for and suddenly like you should [TS]

  have briefed the characters but maybe [TS]

  they did because I mean honestly if you [TS]

  were in a room with someone they were [TS]

  like yeah the gravity's gonna like kind [TS]

  of shift 90 degrees if you're gonna go [TS]

  leaping them fall to your feet on the [TS]

  wall like I don't know that I would be [TS]

  able to really comprehend that until I [TS]

  was actually doing it and i think i [TS]

  would actually feel a lot of anxiety [TS]

  about it because it's completely foreign [TS]

  so i mean i agree i don't think they [TS]

  were but maybe they were and it was just [TS]

  such so [TS]

  suspended belief or disbelief that that [TS]

  they just could wrap their brains around [TS]

  until they actually had to do it [TS]

  I don't know why they're freaking out [TS]

  standing underneath this thing the size [TS]

  of a mountain that is not falling on [TS]

  them for some reason like so it's okay [TS]

  is it okay for us to stand here should [TS]

  we drive the trucks right under this [TS]

  thing cuz i love the claustrophobia [TS]

  though I thought they did wonderful job [TS]

  at made us feel like we were Louise in [TS]

  that moment we're watching it you're [TS]

  trying not to hyperventilate you don't [TS]

  know exactly what's gonna happen thats [TS]

  15-foot tall elephant-like cephalopods [TS]

  whoo whoooooo and other bad choices on [TS]

  this base [TS]

  don't let the military people there and [TS]

  watch fox news oh yeah they would never [TS]

  be like another thing that standard [TS]

  military like okay well you're off duty [TS]

  military people now watch a bunch of [TS]

  paranoid lunatic like conspiracy [TS]

  conspiracy website dot net is for that [TS]

  is your free time feel free to watch [TS]

  that that's fine [TS]

  we've been total radio silence would [TS]

  watch TV or skype calls me I have some [TS]

  issues with that entire plot line which [TS]

  we can get to but I want to ask about [TS]

  the aliens so yeah it does anybody have [TS]

  any thoughts about the way that the [TS]

  Abbott and Costello our friends the [TS]

  aliens are our differently [TS]

  I don't know why they made a window [TS]

  where you can only see their knees I [TS]

  guess it's the review is to get you get [TS]

  to reveal the end of the movie but I [TS]

  feel like as far as window placement if [TS]

  I was meeting a bunch of aliens I [TS]

  wouldn't make a windows so they can see [TS]

  from my knees down [TS]

  that's the heptapods go figure they [TS]

  don't they don't uh don't think like us [TS]

  and also i was disappointed they weren't [TS]

  wearing clothes i'm not saying that [TS]

  aliens have to wear clothes but the [TS]

  number of naked aliens and sci-fi movies [TS]

  like all right come on the law of [TS]

  averages some I'm gonna have some kind [TS]

  of fast thing going on or they'll have [TS]

  to be naked were not naked [TS]

  seems like a thing you might do their [TS]

  their own star trek don't protect your [TS]

  puritanical values on the heptapod I've [TS]

  got to say like you some of them are [TS]

  going to be naked I'm fine but like [TS]

  there should be some percentage of the [TS]

  half-closed I was trying to think of a [TS]

  pot with like a little jacket you know [TS]

  probably a little bow tie is this like [TS]

  panspermia but for clothes like [TS]

  everybody wears clothes everywhere [TS]

  no one wears clothes anywhere except [TS]

  were using it to regulate your [TS]

  temperature in some way and then [TS]

  eventually they become fashion as your [TS]

  society becomes more days it's not it's [TS]

  not inconceivable that anything looks [TS]

  kind of animal like these these aliens [TS]

  are always like they look like animals [TS]

  some kind they have joints and skin and [TS]

  muscle and so on and so forth but never [TS]

  any clothes for me clothing paradox [TS]

  where everybody's clothes nudity is [TS]

  universal state so that's it [TS]

  also I have some questions about their [TS]

  riding technique which seems to require [TS]

  a big glass panel like how do they [TS]

  haven't communicated riding with each [TS]

  other when there's not a big glass [TS]

  pitcher hovering in the role it's [TS]

  hovering in the fluid there the fluid [TS]

  environment and hovers is it looks gasps [TS]

  it looks like they're in a cloud kind of [TS]

  the exact makeup is never really and [TS]

  especially hard there in ama a foggy [TS]

  medium of some sort yeah like when she [TS]

  enters later on there's there's writing [TS]

  it just floats [TS]

  I don't know it's like I mean I I kind [TS]

  of understand the art direction like I [TS]

  shouldn't be overthinking it should be [TS]

  like what it is a type of network so [TS]

  much better and writing because when you [TS]

  do the visual you have to pin it down to [TS]

  something when you put it down you're [TS]

  like that's probably maybe not i don't [TS]

  know like you you don't see the [TS]

  advantages of it you see it looks cool [TS]

  but practically speaking you know spring [TS]

  including coalescing the shapes seems [TS]

  massively inefficient compared to [TS]

  dispose of you know advanced advancement [TS]

  of their writing in but it doesn't get [TS]

  to it in the film that they kind of are [TS]

  there they're creating a simultaneity [TS]

  above a thing at once and i think the [TS]

  movie conveys it very implicitly its [TS]

  explicit in the story it's a big hunk of [TS]

  the story and I don't know that they [TS]

  Jason I don't think they expressed as [TS]

  well in the movie why that was I think [TS]

  they did a pretty good job that there's [TS]

  a scene where Amy Adams says imagine [TS]

  writing you know writing a sentence with [TS]

  both hands starting at the beginning and [TS]

  the end and meeting in the middle that's [TS]

  what that's what they do is they [TS]

  encompass the entire thought and then [TS]

  they put it out there and you know [TS]

  there's there there squid-like they [TS]

  express inc in and and I just I like [TS]

  about it that you know they're alien [TS]

  they're very different from us and [TS]

  there's difficulty in communicating it's [TS]

  not it's not be headed star trek aliens [TS]

  and I like that about it that they are [TS]

  that they're so they're so different and [TS]

  weird and that's what aliens we if we [TS]

  ever meet aliens they're going to not be [TS]

  like some animal from some part of the [TS]

  earth except intelligent right there [TS]

  going to be very different and this is a [TS]

  good way to do that even though yet they [TS]

  are sort of like octopuses sort of [TS]

  elephant and octopi [TS]

  yeah there's a bit there that that thing [TS]

  with the the aliens and the glasses [TS]

  really is a trope though and I thought [TS]

  they handled it really well like I'm [TS]

  thinking of Independence Day with the [TS]

  brent Spiner seen pushed up against the [TS]

  glass and I felt like there's so many [TS]

  opportunities in this film where you [TS]

  think you're about to see something that [TS]

  gets you into horror and you find out [TS]

  what the reveal is I mean I knew the [TS]

  story and think they changed that much [TS]

  but I still thought is there something [TS]

  coming [TS]

  that's going to terrify me like it's [TS]

  going to change the whole meaning of it [TS]

  and I don't know how watching without [TS]

  knowing the story if you felt like we [TS]

  were on the verge of something terrible [TS]

  happening with the aliens and then that [TS]

  never results turns out the aliens are [TS]

  just great central to sucks you know a [TS]

  meditative job of not having like music [TS]

  cues to make you think all of a sudden [TS]

  some bloody thing is gonna they didn't [TS]

  have any jumpscares they didn't have any [TS]

  thing making you think there is going to [TS]

  be jumpscares didn't have anything [TS]

  making you think there was gonna be a [TS]

  whore aspect and I appreciated that also [TS]

  because my kids were there and be scared [TS]

  i would say that when she put her hand [TS]

  up to the class though there was sort of [TS]

  the anticipation of a jump-scare like [TS]

  she she's firmly interacting with the [TS]

  physical environment at this point and [TS]

  what will the alien response to that be [TS]

  whether it is physical or their repulsed [TS]

  by somebody touching it or whatever like [TS]

  Italy either was there was no clear path [TS]

  forward for what that would wind up [TS]

  taking plate will wind up taking place [TS]

  but it was fine all right uh plot stuff [TS]

  so let's talk about those those angry [TS]

  military guys with their conspiracy [TS]

  websites and all that this is this is a [TS]

  part of the story that I don't love but [TS]

  i see why they did it [TS]

  it's the entire we're we're [TS]

  communicating with all the other [TS]

  countries and then we're shutting it [TS]

  down in China and Russia are causing [TS]

  trouble and then we've got our own guys [TS]

  who have decided that they're going to [TS]

  blow up the thing or whatever I [TS]

  understand why this adds a layer of of [TS]

  suspense and action and threat [TS]

  especially the very tense scene where [TS]

  they're in the in the ship talking to [TS]

  the heptapods while the bomb is about to [TS]

  go off is the literal Hitchcock thing we [TS]

  have [TS]

  literal bond the audience knows is there [TS]

  and the characters don't yeah but but [TS]

  you know what the aliens know it's there [TS]

  and they and they sweep them out to be [TS]

  able to take their sweet time though [TS]

  they do they do they leave it to the end [TS]

  because they like a good then i'm going [TS]

  to count their buildings especially like [TS]

  with me tell you about the bomb behind [TS]

  you but first let's just talk about some [TS]

  other stuff yeah yeah I didn't I didn't [TS]

  love this part I again I know why it's [TS]

  there there's somebody who says you know [TS]

  we need a little more conflict we need a [TS]

  little more excitement about how about [TS]

  an explosion and some gunfire but I [TS]

  don't know why did I think this was my [TS]

  favorite bit of not the plot part which [TS]

  again I think it's just there is a [TS]

  standard part in it i think it does help [TS]

  the movie but the way it was handled i [TS]

  thought was really different than I [TS]

  would expect it so that the use of [TS]

  things I liked about her sandal first of [TS]

  all it was it was telegraphed pretty [TS]

  obviously we have shown that guy's face [TS]

  you know easy on the call was in fine [TS]

  they did just somebody needs to do right [TS]

  so they go there they plant the bomb we [TS]

  see the bomb [TS]

  it's got a time round up with it with [TS]

  the standard 7 segment display the [TS]

  timer's will always be made of what are [TS]

  they gonna do when bombs don't have that [TS]

  display on that anymore anyway that goes [TS]

  up and they want to show you then is [TS]

  like really only this other get this [TS]

  guy's face has been here the whole time [TS]

  going to be bored should be bored i [TS]

  totally want to kill these aliens did I [TS]

  say that out loud like the whole earlier [TS]

  part of the movie we know it's gonna be [TS]

  him then me then they show him down [TS]

  there they send up the bomb [TS]

  he's got other people with him you can't [TS]

  really see like they're just like just [TS]

  send him up whatever then they show the [TS]

  close-up of them unpacking their weapons [TS]

  unpacking their guns like and so it's [TS]

  clear that it's a conspiracy essentially [TS]

  all of them are like you know what [TS]

  they're saying all the military stuff [TS]

  like you know take good shots blog we [TS]

  can do this but they only show them [TS]

  opening the gun cases make sure their [TS]

  hands from above right almost as if [TS]

  you're looking out of the tunnel down at [TS]

  it and they don't show that gunfight [TS]

  they don't let your show like this they [TS]

  show the trucks coming towards it they [TS]

  showed the opening up the stuff and then [TS]

  from within the cave area you hear some [TS]

  gunshots but like we don't see the whole [TS]

  battle because and i love that was like [TS]

  I don't care about that guy [TS]

  yeah I don't care how that battle turns [TS]

  out i understand what you're getting at [TS]

  you don't have to take me there [TS]

  just just sketch it just be like don't [TS]

  don't go down because so many other [TS]

  movies would have had that battle scene [TS]

  and have [TS]

  cut back and forth in the battle scene [TS]

  the bomb talking to aliens balancing the [TS]

  Bob talking to aliens they stay with the [TS]

  people in the room and then come back to [TS]

  the bomb that much right now I love that [TS]

  I love that I was not forced to spend [TS]

  time with these Yahoo's down there [TS]

  having their gunfighter even with the [TS]

  good guys coming with the pickup trucks [TS]

  try to stop them like I know how that's [TS]

  gonna go you've established that you've [TS]

  done it whatever now we're in the room [TS]

  with the bomb and I really appreciated [TS]

  again light touch on all that where they [TS]

  just drop enough into the water to let [TS]

  you know these are the things that are [TS]

  happening you've seen this in 17 other [TS]

  movies we don't need to show you that [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  let's show you the stuff we haven't seen [TS]

  which is talking to these weird aliens [TS]

  advancing that plot and oh yeah there's [TS]

  a bomb in the thing and I thought the [TS]

  way they resolve the bomb with the [TS]

  little force push that the seven fingers [TS]

  force push to save them and and float [TS]

  them gently into the little gravity [TS]

  tunnel on all that I thought that was [TS]

  that was really nice and I do appreciate [TS]

  a good explosion in the middle of a [TS]

  sci-fi movie i'll say that was nice [TS]

  explosion i want to bring up the I want [TS]

  to circle back about the about that last [TS]

  bit too is that Abbott does this because [TS]

  they know it's gonna happen right this [TS]

  is part of what we find out as we [TS]

  develop further you look back at the [TS]

  scene you say these aliens knew exactly [TS]

  what was about to happen because they [TS]

  know and this is this is an echo of Amy [TS]

  Adams not changing the death of her [TS]

  daughter even though ostensibly maybe [TS]

  she could or she could not have [TS]

  conceived the daughter line in the movie [TS]

  in the book the story rather the [TS]

  daughter dies in a climbing accident so [TS]

  conceivably she could change events the [TS]

  mother and Louise might have missed the [TS]

  movie they make it essentially if you [TS]

  have this child she's gonna do not die [TS]

  of this rare and incurable disease which [TS]

  is a different set of steaks so I think [TS]

  they set up a bit in the same way as the [TS]

  alien knows it's like the doctor right [TS]

  he knows the staff is coming [TS]

  somebody knocks four times where the [TS]

  bomb is about to go off Abbott's entire [TS]

  life is clear to him that leads up to [TS]

  this moment when he commits this event [TS]

  which has this consequence for his race [TS]

  and for this whole mission and that's [TS]

  just what he does knowing that the whole [TS]

  time so i think it's a light parallelism [TS]

  but it comes into sharp relief by the [TS]

  end of the film there's one mechanic in [TS]

  this film that I can't get behind and [TS]

  that is the tons of fake news that are [TS]

  here in the media clips oh yea networks [TS]

  and the graphic overlays for countless [TS]

  needless organizations that we don't we [TS]

  don't need to have any concept of I I [TS]

  feel like that was a complete waste and [TS]

  especially hated the montage of all of [TS]

  them altogether blathering on about the [TS]

  events that are going on globally [TS]

  yep i don't really think that added [TS]

  anything to the film i found it to be [TS]

  really distracting and since we know it [TS]

  is completely absolutely one hundred [TS]

  percent of ache from from beginning to [TS]

  end [TS]

  I don't want to see it a if it's [TS]

  supposed to be some sort of plausible [TS]

  world near our modern-day then it should [TS]

  either be networks that were familiar [TS]

  with or should never be seen at all and [TS]

  i ate exposition can come at us through [TS]

  any other character that is available [TS]

  rather rather than this mechanic which I [TS]

  feels kind of lazy and something you see [TS]

  in like zombie movies [TS]

  yeah you know again not to bring back [TS]

  contact but I will say this for contact [TS]

  contact got a bunch of people from CNN [TS]

  to do stuff for contact with the CNN [TS]

  logos and they showed CNN's coverage of [TS]

  their launching their their machine and [TS]

  all of that and they edited together [TS]

  like clips Bill Clinton talking now and [TS]

  you know and they made an effort to say [TS]

  okay this is what it is it's like it's [TS]

  CNN you're seeing everything it's [TS]

  exactly what you're seeing and in this [TS]

  yeah it definitely felt like a TV show [TS]

  with a fake you know fake news anchor [TS]

  with a fake logo and I I grew here I I [TS]

  that was not my favorite thing about [TS]

  it's like one notch up from the spinning [TS]

  newspapers kind of thing so I want to [TS]

  bring I want to bring everybody down but [TS]

  i do want to explain why in the end this [TS]

  movie didn't didn't hold together for me [TS]

  alright why I don't tell you you're on [TS]

  so that's what I mean I like that is [TS]

  this so much i like about this movie [TS]

  that I don't regret having seen it all [TS]

  and i really liked that it was made but [TS]

  for me specifically like this to just [TS]

  fall entirely like this this movie The [TS]

  Return in this movie in the general plot [TS]

  hangs on as presented in the film I [TS]

  don't know what it's like in the book [TS]

  the barest of threads they mentioned [TS]

  this after Whorf hypothesis or whatever [TS]

  that your that the language that use [TS]

  influences your way of thinking right [TS]

  they throw that out there in case you're [TS]

  not familiar with it gets one line and [TS]

  then the whole turn in the book is by [TS]

  learning this alien language it will [TS]

  change your way of thinking and it [TS]

  changes your way of thinking in such a [TS]

  way the time is no longer linear and [TS]

  that is a really important thing because [TS]

  that's all about the turn or whatever [TS]

  and I that doesn't hold together for me [TS]

  the idea that the secret of these aliens [TS]

  would be it's like learn french and time [TS]

  is no longer linear nope sorry not [TS]

  happening like I don't care how fancy [TS]

  your languages i don't care if you write [TS]

  in a circle learning a language is like [TS]

  weird language plus after war people's [TS]

  time has no meaning no I don't I don't [TS]

  accept that I don't get it all right and [TS]

  so that that you know it doesn't hold [TS]

  together for me personally and then the [TS]

  second part is assuming does hold [TS]

  together sooner you accept that as like [TS]

  art whatever hand way behind way this is [TS]

  this is the plot of the movie i think [TS]

  that like what that I think what they [TS]

  were going for and didn't accomplish ms [TS]

  I I shouldn't feel like the wii's is a [TS]

  monster for having a child and I kind of [TS]

  feel like she's a monster for having [TS]

  your child because she knows how it's [TS]

  going to turn out yep [TS]

  presumably she accepts that there's no [TS]

  way she can avoid it and she does it [TS]

  anyway which strikes me as one of the [TS]

  most selfish acts you could possible [TS]

  because it's maybe you want to have [TS]

  those moments with your child and [TS]

  treasure them but the the poor child [TS]

  like you bring someone into this world [TS]

  you know is going to be did to die a [TS]

  terrible death I it just it seems to me [TS]

  because you're not like well maybe and [TS]

  you know like you you now see time as [TS]

  like a number of maybe she has no choice [TS]

  like that again it's not it's not [TS]

  emphasize enough the in the movie i [TS]

  can't tell if like this is gonna happen [TS]

  anyway and she embraces it is able to [TS]

  accept it versus no she actually does [TS]

  have a choice and she could choose not [TS]

  to do it so it [TS]

  I don't think that's what they wanted me [TS]

  to feel I think they wanted me to feel [TS]

  like this is an inevitability and [TS]

  embrace the Magica of time no longer [TS]

  being linear and you seeing the matrix [TS]

  and having it all be of one continuous [TS]

  thing and and then accept her doing this [TS]

  thing as a beautiful decision but like I [TS]

  i don't i don't see her as a monster I [TS]

  have empathy for her character and I [TS]

  appreciate it but this [TS]

  little corner of saying but yet did she [TS]

  really make the right decision we be not [TS]

  so that's that's Maggie I think that's [TS]

  the beauty of the [TS]

  the beauty of the [TS]

  end of this movie is that well first off [TS]

  I disagree that if it if she well I [TS]

  disagree yeah I know but broadly I do [TS]

  disagree but in specific i'm going to [TS]

  say I disagree because what you're [TS]

  arguing is if you know for a fact that [TS]

  you're going to have a child and you're [TS]

  going to love them and they're gonna [TS]

  love you and you're gonna raise them and [TS]

  thence tragically later in life they're [TS]

  going to die for some reason you should [TS]

  just not have them and they shouldn't [TS]

  exist and i think that's wrong i think [TS]

  that's monstrous and the reality is you [TS]

  know all of the children we have and [TS]

  bring into this world are going to die [TS]

  that's life not when they're 18 and from [TS]

  from are very rare disease just one [TS]

  length of time like if your life is I [TS]

  know but it is a significant thing it's [TS]

  a significant thing I'm just people make [TS]

  if you have taste sex you know you have [TS]

  to assess the traits as an Ashkenazi Jew [TS]

  I feels very strongly that there are [TS]

  people who make the choice to not have [TS]

  children all and people make the choice [TS]

  to have children knowing what the jack [TS]

  outcome a key be and that their child [TS]

  might live to be from age three to 18 [TS]

  and I in cystic fibrosis other diseases [TS]

  they still have children but doesn't [TS]

  maybe like this is in this universe were [TS]

  led to believe that like it's not it's [TS]

  not a question of like always a [TS]

  possibility and Bob's like no this is [TS]

  how it's gonna go down you know ahead of [TS]

  time so i think the way time works in [TS]

  this movie [TS]

  what happens happens and that's one of [TS]

  the beautiful things it's a very 12 [TS]

  monkeys like view of of time but then [TS]

  but then she doesn't get credit for [TS]

  doing a beautiful thing because she had [TS]

  no choice of things that happen happen [TS]

  well what is it what is the free will [TS]

  it's a good question here's the thing [TS]

  though John your point of view is [TS]

  represented in the movie because it is [TS]

  strongly implied that that's the reason [TS]

  jeremy renner leaves her [TS]

  well yeah I mean who had you know I i [TS]

  have I my life for not being with his [TS]

  dying daughter but like he's and he's [TS]

  another person who got you got you know [TS]

  screwed over by her decision because she [TS]

  didn't include him in the decision she [TS]

  just said oh I'm you know let's have a [TS]

  child together [TS]

  I'm not going to tell you but guess what [TS]

  this is gonna die horribly I know this [TS]

  but I'm not gonna bring you know i'm not [TS]

  going to tell you about it so like he [TS]

  got suckered into this know until she's [TS]

  aged seven or so that he's gonna dance [TS]

  right and then she's gonna tell me it's [TS]

  like well it's like the worst possible [TS]

  thing like you didn't tell me the [TS]

  beginning which is not fair to me [TS]

  because you knew [TS]

  how this is gonna turn out and didn't [TS]

  tell me right and then you do tell me [TS]

  halfway through by the way that you can [TS]

  end horribly huh [TS]

  so I didn't get to enjoy the rest of my [TS]

  daughter's life you could just not told [TS]

  him the entire time so I'd say the truly [TS]

  selfish move is saving yourself is [TS]

  preventing your child from having any [TS]

  life at all because you don't want to be [TS]

  hurt when they die but there is no child [TS]

  at that point there's not you're not [TS]

  preventing anybody from having anything [TS]

  anymore year then you're preventing all [TS]

  the kids you didn't have four but there [TS]

  is she knows who she knows every notion [TS]

  of her child because she can see the [TS]

  future see so and this goes back to your [TS]

  other point which is you just don't you [TS]

  just don't buy this idea of course [TS]

  language you can see the premise of the [TS]

  entire thing which is you know it's [TS]

  science fiction I that there are lots of [TS]

  things about you that I inspection [TS]

  that's fantasy that's just fantasy like [TS]

  there's no scientific just because there [TS]

  was there's a thing called Sapphira war [TS]

  hypothesis one of the ways people think [TS]

  of the arrow of time and think of the [TS]

  way the universe works is that it [TS]

  actually is all occurring simultaneously [TS]

  everything no I'm on board with that I [TS]

  just don't think learning a language [TS]

  that is going to give you mastery over [TS]

  time but we don't know that that's what [TS]

  it is in the structure of the film the [TS]

  aliens give her a weapon she's pursuing [TS]

  you know that's part of the thing a tool [TS]

  they talk about is technology its [TS]

  biggest you learn language 129 language [TS]

  of changing your way of thinking that's [TS]

  that's all you got in the movie she goes [TS]

  into the strange medium their teaching [TS]

  this language which unlocks something as [TS]

  a tech technology but they're talking [TS]

  about is something that's part of the [TS]

  mentality right that this language [TS]

  unlocks a capacity which is a very [TS]

  science fiction think it's not fantasy [TS]

  to unlock the best if we accept that [TS]

  there are aliens who can see nonlinear [TS]

  time why could they not teach the [TS]

  ability to see nonlinear time to someone [TS]

  was saying like that wasn't in the movie [TS]

  all we got in the movie with sapphire [TS]

  worth learn language time on time [TS]

  unfolds like there was no no thing in [TS]

  the movie to tell you like / altering [TS]

  you by being in this mr. anything like [TS]

  that it was your footnotes then yeah [TS]

  well I really just wasn't there like [TS]

  there was there was very little to hang [TS]

  your hat on to to explain why this end [TS]

  and i would say like it's it's only [TS]

  vaguely plausible unless their altar [TS]

  altering the biology to be like we can [TS]

  take a human and give you the ability to [TS]

  do this thing like i don't think there's [TS]

  anything that can be explained humans [TS]

  they would let humans see time in a [TS]

  nonlinear way and see the future in the [TS]

  past like even if I accept that there's [TS]

  any kind of being that has this mastery [TS]

  over this aspect of the universe the [TS]

  idea that [TS]

  talk therapy or just hanging out [TS]

  together and learning some stuff can [TS]

  give you that it doesn't doesn't hang [TS]

  together syfy what is the other fans who [TS]

  is fine it's like i'll give you the true [TS]

  side there give you a doctor strange [TS]

  type thing yeah all thumbs up but sci-fi [TS]

  not very sci-fi I disagree time travel [TS]

  in the perception of time is a [TS]

  fundamental principle of science fiction [TS]

  and right but you gotta you gotta have [TS]

  something to hang your hat on you gotta [TS]

  have something she locked but she like [TS]

  the capacity by language makes it turns [TS]

  out that line w % of our brain right [TS]

  nothing but no they didn't do that [TS]

  Joanna but they didn't do this [TS]

  no it's the idea that she's not [TS]

  unlocking some latent capacity your [TS]

  brain but it's a way it's a point of [TS]

  view you have actually interviewing [TS]

  doesn't point of view doesn't make you [TS]

  not incentives just hanging space to [TS]

  though I mean the cips hang there and [TS]

  you know in the over the field and [TS]

  that's a form of science fiction we [TS]

  accept the idea that she has the [TS]

  capacity to see time in a in a holistic [TS]

  you know complete fashion because the [TS]

  aliens have already mastered this [TS]

  because they've done it's capable for [TS]

  her to do it and language is the key [TS]

  that allows her to see simultaneously I [TS]

  I would have been happier if they didn't [TS]

  have if they didn't mention sapphire [TS]

  Worf if because that was the only thing [TS]

  they gave you was like by learning a [TS]

  language but if they didn't mention that [TS]

  at all but merely said she goes into the [TS]

  missing now she can do this thing then [TS]

  you can just make up an explanation you [TS]

  want you're like well the aliens can do [TS]

  it and now she can do it [TS]

  the story makes it easier because of the [TS]

  story she has no ability to change time [TS]

  not exactly adjacent i just reread it [TS]

  and I after this because in the movie [TS]

  it's clear that she can sort of change [TS]

  events that there's some kind of looped [TS]

  going on with you don't see where it [TS]

  starts and ends at car locks [TS]

  i I don't I don't read it that way you [TS]

  don't do you read that she can change [TS]

  challenge because she's talking about [TS]

  she can't i don't i don't either the way [TS]

  I read the movie is that time is it time [TS]

  is the way it is and when she knows [TS]

  about it she knows about it but that's [TS]

  all she was able to create a paradox [TS]

  somehow though so that's part of the but [TS]

  we don't know how that paradox was [TS]

  created right yeah like what the general [TS]

  calling the general then he's the one he [TS]

  tells her the thing that is true [TS]

  that's what that's what that's a loop [TS]

  that happens but i don't i'm not sure [TS]

  she creates it wrong not sure I just [TS]

  really something like this sometimes you [TS]

  know a lot of other science-fiction [TS]

  resolutions when you have a loop like [TS]

  that occur a series of events that [TS]

  happened essentially off-camera lock you [TS]

  into a certain kind of outcome because [TS]

  they ripple back and forth through time [TS]

  and then you're seeing the outcome but [TS]

  you can't see the cause and that's [TS]

  always good sci-fi about [TS]

  that but in this in the book its [TS]

  seemingly very explicit that she her [TS]

  consciousness spans she's unable she [TS]

  could never told so she tells John [TS]

  Jeremy Renner right she tells even in [TS]

  the movie this thing about the future [TS]

  she reveals the future to him which [TS]

  ostensibly would change things accept [TS]

  the notion is that she'd are always told [TS]

  him that and that she remembers how why [TS]

  he left you know in the past she knows [TS]

  why she told him that in the future but [TS]

  isn't that changing history changing [TS]

  time and the general is the most [TS]

  problematic thing in the movie because [TS]

  it i mean you can be explained by saying [TS]

  like the general learn the language too [TS]

  because the general is there and the [TS]

  only in story reason for him to saying [TS]

  that is because he knows he has to say [TS]

  that because that is essential for the [TS]

  you know the earlier events right thing [TS]

  you learned later it is not is not [TS]

  naturalistic it's not as not as if he [TS]

  just happens to say that and she learns [TS]

  you can go back he comes and says I [TS]

  think it's probably important for me to [TS]

  show you this and also let me tell you [TS]

  this like so he and he could be doing [TS]

  that if he also has gained this ability [TS]

  to see time and realizes this is an [TS]

  important thing to do and that's fine i [TS]

  just not they don't they don't they say [TS]

  in the movies why he's doing that but [TS]

  they make it very clear that it's not [TS]

  just know she has a glimpse of the [TS]

  future and using an information she's [TS]

  able to be convincing in the past she [TS]

  has a glimpse of the future in which the [TS]

  guy she's convincing gives are [TS]

  explicitly for no other in story reason [TS]

  this information for the express purpose [TS]

  of causing the past events to happen not [TS]

  thats that's a fun scene but i don't [TS]

  really love it because I i find me there [TS]

  it feels like us i seen from another [TS]

  movie [TS]

  it feels like a scene from you know [TS]

  looper or have some other kind of time [TS]

  travel shenanigans movie and that's not [TS]

  the movie that I feel like I've been [TS]

  watching up to this point in building [TS]

  Ted's Excellent Adventure members if [TS]

  they escape they got the key right to [TS]

  escape later and then they won't [TS]

  remember me up [TS]

  yeah can i point out one other thing to [TS]

  having read the story and the movie and [TS]

  I really do love the movie i think it's [TS]

  fair i'd be with aliens for a half stars [TS]

  when i get out of 5 but the i think that [TS]

  there's a graft in this movie to give it [TS]

  there's like the core story that's in [TS]

  the short story is I think told [TS]

  beautifully and almost completely and in [TS]

  most ways almost identical I think Jason [TS]

  don't you agree that's all that they [TS]

  preserve the core feeling and nature of [TS]

  the story but then there's this it [TS]

  additional like contact and I kept [TS]

  thinking about contact to or even lake [TS]

  house in fact there's a little bit of [TS]

  that like inexplicable time travel [TS]

  information time travel was [TS]

  choreographed it on top to give it sort [TS]

  of a conventional veneers that would [TS]

  allow an arc of you know something has [TS]

  to happen and the world's my blog in the [TS]

  story the aliens show up the reveal [TS]

  I'm gonna go spoilers for the reveal is [TS]

  that there's no reason they're there [TS]

  they're there because they know they [TS]

  have to be there and then they go and [TS]

  that's the entire and inside the movies [TS]

  or the story is a meditation on what you [TS]

  know your internal state of mind how you [TS]

  perceive the universe how you deal with [TS]

  this knowledge that's terrible [TS]

  and the fact that these aliens because [TS]

  they can receive all of their time at [TS]

  once their whole lives at once not the [TS]

  future is their whole lives they come [TS]

  and they go and there's no purpose for [TS]

  it so you're left to close with rather [TS]

  than this one coming because we need you [TS]

  three thousand years the whole subtitle [TS]

  seen I think they could have removed all [TS]

  the subtitles and it would have been a [TS]

  better film like just had her in there [TS]

  talking to them then painting things [TS]

  that are going out and doing the thing [TS]

  and we're going much better i enjoyed [TS]

  the we're here because we will need you [TS]

  in 3,000 years so there are two things [TS]

  that bothered me about the the movie [TS]

  that made it four and a half stars [TS]

  instead of five for me [TS]

  one of them was that whole scene with [TS]

  the general where he likes shows or his [TS]

  phone and then tells her exactly what [TS]

  she says and I kind of I felt like and [TS]

  she would either no or not no you know [TS]

  that's done in science fiction where [TS]

  it's just kind of a hand waved away and [TS]

  not really explained so I didn't really [TS]

  love that scene and the other thing was [TS]

  a as Joe mentioned in the beginning the [TS]

  hair during that whole scene where she [TS]

  so mad she's a little she's like on the [TS]

  ship inn in their environment because it [TS]

  was so distracted I was they were so [TS]

  overly ambitious with the the lack or [TS]

  reduction of gravity and her hair in [TS]

  that environment [TS]

  yeah I I was cringing the whole entire [TS]

  time it's supposed to be a really [TS]

  emotionally impactful moment we're [TS]

  describing the death of [TS]

  the the characters who threw them out of [TS]

  the little airlock thing inside of there [TS]

  and we're discussing how in 3,000 years [TS]

  it's gonna be important for the human [TS]

  race and all the things about the weapon [TS]

  and seeing your time and it's just the [TS]

  whole time just staring at these weird [TS]

  brassy waves moving around and just like [TS]

  this is awful guys this is kind of [TS]

  situations where the visual effects are [TS]

  are in a hard place because if you've [TS]

  seen like people on the International [TS]

  Space Station with long hair hair and [TS]

  zero gravity looks weird like it doesn't [TS]

  look it doesn't look graceful like it [TS]

  just kind of you know it just it doesn't [TS]

  do things that you want to do in the [TS]

  movie looks very strange to us so [TS]

  there's a lot of this a lot of those [TS]

  youtube videos whatever woman is up [TS]

  there doing experiments using a very [TS]

  long hair and she's got in different [TS]

  styles and different times and it just [TS]

  kind of bounces around awkwardly and [TS]

  sticks out at weird angles and it just [TS]

  is not flattering it is much better to [TS]

  make it look like pretend you're a [TS]

  mermaid underwater and also you're on a [TS]

  Playstation 4 and now your hair is [TS]

  waving and its artistic license but [TS]

  maybe maybe they need a little more [TS]

  money so the end the very end [TS]

  I what I loved one of the things i love [TS]

  about this movie is I i love how [TS]

  beautiful it is at the end that we [TS]

  there's a moment where she says I [TS]

  realized why I just realized why my [TS]

  husband left me and he says I don't I [TS]

  didn't know you were married and it's [TS]

  like you know your she's actually [TS]

  realizing she's figured out like how [TS]

  this is gonna go from here on out and I [TS]

  I i think that it's a beautiful thing [TS]

  that she's been in a movie she's been [TS]

  especially the beginning she's talking [TS]

  to her daughter and talking about the [TS]

  story of her daughter's life and we've [TS]

  seen these hints about like mommy and [TS]

  daddy talk to animals you know and [TS]

  things that are giving her clues about [TS]

  this that in the end she gets this much [TS]

  bigger vision that this is that she is [TS]

  going to have a child within and it's [TS]

  the child that we've seen all along and [TS]

  and she's going to go through that whole [TS]

  process that leads to you know her [TS]

  daughter growing up and then her [TS]

  daughter dying and i think it's sad and [TS]

  and beautiful that and and the idea [TS]

  there i take away from it i'm curious [TS]

  what all of you take away from it [TS]

  is that if you look at any life on a [TS]

  long scale various tragedy and there's [TS]

  happy things and then you die and so you [TS]

  have to you know if your ipod you just [TS]

  have to appreciate the happy things that [TS]

  happen because you know we're all [TS]

  bounded by time and I I you know I [TS]

  thought it was I thought it was a [TS]

  beautiful poetic way to end a movie [TS]

  about aliens who live in a big floating [TS]

  spaceship i also agree that it's very [TS]

  poetic [TS]

  I i do have some things that I thought [TS]

  about sense that about the mechanics of [TS]

  it and what the ramifications would be [TS]

  on a global scale especially like why [TS]

  would you be throwing a party 18 months [TS]

  later instead of being like oh I wonder [TS]

  what this time travel is going to do the [TS]

  stock market the thing though just about [TS]

  the aspect of Louise and everything [TS]

  about Louie said i love that i thought [TS]

  that was a very beautiful story to tell [TS]

  and I love coming full circle to the [TS]

  drawings with them in the canary and [TS]

  then also when she's back at the lake [TS]

  house and pouring glasses wine there [TS]

  were those empty glasses of wine which [TS]

  are on the table by the door at the very [TS]

  first shot of the movie as the camera [TS]

  pushed in on that and this we take to [TS]

  mean is the night of the the night of [TS]

  the daughters conception basically [TS]

  because this was the moment of the [TS]

  voiceover that's happening right there [TS]

  and the fact that Jeremy Renner's [TS]

  outside she's bringing a glass of wine I [TS]

  but that that also ties it back in with [TS]

  what we saw in these these things that [TS]

  you thought were things you might have [TS]

  thought were flashbacks earlier and and [TS]

  makes the film feel very coherent in [TS]

  that regard so I i like that element of [TS]

  the construction i like that i just i [TS]

  like the I i think i like the bitter [TS]

  sweetness i think that's the thing i [TS]

  like I think I like that it's sad and [TS]

  happy at the same time that that like [TS]

  that that really works for me [TS]

  I thought it was sort of perfect and i [TS]

  said at the outset i'm circling around [TS]

  because my memory works in big blocks of [TS]

  time he finally explained glen and how [TS]

  we work exactly [TS]

  now you understand meet the others i [TS]

  have to pod I did you know the always [TS]

  knew the hit [TS]

  very good the bit about this is why the [TS]

  story as i said the beginning always [TS]

  gets to me is I feel like and you've [TS]

  talked about it throughout too is it's [TS]

  the the nature of being a parent is that [TS]

  you're always creating some part of life [TS]

  that you don't know how long this [TS]

  creature you love so much is going to [TS]

  live you know how long you're going to [TS]

  live whatever but you might live to see [TS]

  your child died which is a terrible [TS]

  terrible thing we know when they live to [TS]

  see our parents died that's much more [TS]

  likely and reasonable and and also [TS]

  horrible but seeing a child died is the [TS]

  worst thing in the story plays with that [TS]

  idea about that having almost having the [TS]

  choice it's like but you don't have the [TS]

  choice in the story she clearly doesn't [TS]

  have the choice here we you know I was [TS]

  interesting the different people think [TS]

  she did that she had any free well there [TS]

  but whether she did or didn't [TS]

  that choice is made and she's now [TS]

  fervently you deeply conscious other [TS]

  from that moment forward and that it [TS]

  just hits me so hard to think about it [TS]

  that I think it overwhelms any of this [TS]

  sort of you know tacked on bits that [TS]

  beware global issues are are brought in [TS]

  i think to you know heighten the [TS]

  dramatic effect where it's really some [TS]

  level this is a very small movie a [TS]

  better view aliens and a few people and [TS]

  all m1 life and it's it's funny how [TS]

  small it feels even though it's brings [TS]

  in the global things I liked it a lot [TS]

  I I tacho a lot of the thoughts that I [TS]

  think several of my panelists had at the [TS]

  at the very beginning here at the end [TS]

  say we're wrapping it all the way back [TS]

  around I got ya i thought it was I [TS]

  thought it was the kind of movie that I [TS]

  like to see I hope they make more movies [TS]

  like this i think it is the perfect [TS]

  execution in a lot of ways of at [TS]

  adapting a good science fiction short [TS]

  story into a film which you know [TS]

  original properties in Hollywood not so [TS]

  common anymore and site you know science [TS]

  fiction short stories are the perfect [TS]

  thing to mine for movies they are a good [TS]

  match and this is a good story and as [TS]

  somebody who read it five years ago I [TS]

  could not imagine a better adaptation of [TS]

  them that it is there is so much care [TS]

  and there are so many things that could [TS]

  have really screwed up and they took a [TS]

  lot of care with the way that this [TS]

  screenplay is [TS]

  and then the way it's directed and shot [TS]

  instead the music and all of that I [TS]

  think they did a very good job Amy Adams [TS]

  is amazing in it and so yeah it i have [TS]

  enjoyed a rival more than I've enjoyed [TS]

  the movie I in multiple years i'll put [TS]

  it that way I I thought it was great so [TS]

  i can't say how good of an adaptation it [TS]

  was because it didn't read the story [TS]

  pages it was definitely it was [TS]

  definitely a good man residues yeah it [TS]

  was definitely a good movie but like you [TS]

  know ASAP but my quibbles about it don't [TS]

  make me have any ill will towards this [TS]

  movie at all and I think for me to get [TS]

  over the things that bother me about it [TS]

  wouldn't take much like the way I would [TS]

  fix this movie is get rid of sapphire [TS]

  Worf don't have the language be the gift [TS]

  have her merely get this ability through [TS]

  some other hand wavy means that doesn't [TS]

  try to don't try to pin down to some [TS]

  concrete like languages and West I like [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah right in it but then do the real [TS]

  thing is like the thing that you all got [TS]

  out of it that I wish there was there [TS]

  was more of is the idea that it was [TS]

  there and it's there in the first scene [TS]

  but I feel like when they wrap it up at [TS]

  the end there's a little bit too much [TS]

  linear time the idea that after she [TS]

  receives this gift that her experience [TS]

  of time is not like our so she is not [TS]

  live she's not choosing to do a thing [TS]

  and living through that like she sees [TS]

  the whole her life at the same as we [TS]

  were also it sees the whole of her life [TS]

  at the same time and if you can imagine [TS]

  seeing it the whole your life at the [TS]

  same time you can see there with this [TS]

  child in some portion or without the [TS]

  child's own portion when she looks at [TS]

  the whole time she looks at the ring and [TS]

  says well I want the ring that has the [TS]

  kid part in here because i'm looking at [TS]

  the whole thing i'm not you know and [TS]

  it's that she doesn't do if he doesn't [TS]

  transformation it's not expressed to us [TS]

  well that now she is different than [TS]

  essentially every other human who [TS]

  doesn't have this ability because she's [TS]

  not living her life from one day to the [TS]

  next [TS]

  marching through time checking off [TS]

  things on the calendar she is instead [TS]

  experiencing and viewing her entire life [TS]

  at once and from that perspective offer [TS]

  quote-unquote choices which are really [TS]

  choices make sense and give the the the [TS]

  heartwarming ending I just feel like [TS]

  this that you have to bring a lot of [TS]

  that to it because by the end of the [TS]

  movie they make it seem like she has [TS]

  like 0 and now we're in the present and [TS]

  I'm making these choices and i'm just [TS]

  going to live out my days and i'm just [TS]

  going to let it go which is which is not [TS]

  for it to really work for it to really [TS]

  resonated maybe the book does this [TS]

  better [TS]

  I have to really internalize the idea [TS]

  that she is not continuing her life from [TS]

  this point on but did it but she is now [TS]

  and has always been in forever will be [TS]

  experiencing her entire life or one at [TS]

  once at and one giant ring in the in the [TS]

  book it's a story to be clear you like [TS]

  the story better I think in the story [TS]

  it's made clear that from the moment the [TS]

  language affects her that she now sees [TS]

  it from that point to her death but not [TS]

  beyond the aliens may have longer lives [TS]

  and Jason have to agree with you to this [TS]

  is I can't imagine a better adaptation [TS]

  of a book that i love so or story looks [TS]

  so much I just you know it's not perfect [TS]

  in every way [TS]

  yeah I don't like some of the plot [TS]

  add-ons but oh my god it's I think it's [TS]

  it couldn't have been a better [TS]

  adaptation yeah I i thinkyeah the [TS]

  impression i got in the way I read the [TS]

  movie is that she is basically kind of [TS]

  not unstuck in time because that's not [TS]

  quite right to use the you know [TS]

  slaughterhouse-five but it's that idea [TS]

  is like her her view of time is broken [TS]

  at that point forever like she is [TS]

  hopping around between all the different [TS]

  things that happen in her in her life [TS]

  and that's just how she is now but uh [TS]

  you know but books can make definitive [TS]

  statements and movies have images on the [TS]

  screen and you have to read them I I was [TS]

  I've been wondering about we see her at [TS]

  the end kind of teaching seminars about [TS]

  this language she has the book about the [TS]

  language do other people have this [TS]

  ability or is she so superior in her [TS]

  linguistic abilities that she is the [TS]

  only one who can see forward through [TS]

  time nearly teaching the language surely [TS]

  wouldn't give you a view of all of [TS]

  space-time so I think she's the only one [TS]

  with the gift that's my headcanon it's [TS]

  just you know it's just your life that [TS]

  you don't see all of space-time the [TS]

  aliens made live to be thousand years [TS]

  old my impression is that because they [TS]

  need humanity in 3,000 years they gave [TS]

  them the language as a tool [TS]

  plus the schematic to build whatever [TS]

  they need to get built the aliens [TS]

  connect there helping 3,000 years I mean [TS]

  that's not that's in the book but I feel [TS]

  like in the story the story then nobody [TS]

  in the story except the linguists to [TS]

  meet the aliens ever managed to learn [TS]

  languages and my take on it is is you [TS]

  can teach other concepts of this alien [TS]

  language but until you [TS]

  basically what they say until you start [TS]

  thinking in it until you start dreaming [TS]

  in it that's the moment where now your [TS]

  perceptions widen and that's unclear to [TS]

  me whether she can now teach you know [TS]

  native uh have to pod be or whether this [TS]

  is just you know she can do is sort of [TS]

  teach you the basics and and you'll [TS]

  never be able to see it like her that [TS]

  that is left to the imagination but you [TS]

  need you really need it's like you need [TS]

  to go to France you need to be immersed [TS]

  yeah you need to hang out with heptapod [TS]

  for a while in a cave that's right [TS]

  really get that's why they only you know [TS]

  in in the good schools only have two [TS]

  pots can teach that language classroom [TS]

  have non-native speakers to know English [TS]

  allowed in the classroom just a series [TS]

  of loud farting noise and everybody gets [TS]

  an ink spray bottle and a pump in water [TS]

  and then they all start getting to work [TS]

  about speaking but everyone's here [TS]

  forever and I just I just just 102 is a [TS]

  Stephen Wolfram and his son were [TS]

  involved in creating the language which [TS]

  doesn't surprise me at all [TS]

  yeah and i like that you know they [TS]

  basically have like an iPad app where [TS]

  they build the language of my thought [TS]

  that I thought they visualize that [TS]

  pretty well the idea of how do you have [TS]

  anything that's occurred a circle with [TS]

  things off it looks like a really weird [TS]

  sort of a way of doing a written [TS]

  language and I thought they did a good [TS]

  job with that we should have introduced [TS]

  into emoji though [TS]

  hey hey you you have you seen pile of [TS]

  poo great so you're bringing your great [TS]

  and all but alright well that has been a [TS]

  it's been a nice conversation about a [TS]

  fun movie i hope you've all seen it if [TS]

  you're listening to this but if not you [TS]

  should you should go watch it because [TS]

  it's good i like to thank my guests [TS]

  doesn't matter when they listen to [TS]

  podcasts that's true i suppose that's [TS]

  true once you listen to this podcast [TS]

  then you will understand all podcasts [TS]

  that no that's not how it works either [TS]

  only when you're dreaming but they have [TS]

  to be immersed they do living with you [TS]

  too living have to live with a podcast [TS]

  live from the podcast land and moving [TS]

  with Jason for a month menus you're [TS]

  going to start [TS]

  I'm gonna have to clean the cat box [TS]

  while you're here though so be warned [TS]

  alright thanks to my guests for being [TS]

  here John siracusa thank you as always I [TS]

  have no hate in my heart for this movie [TS]

  that's good that's good it did the one [TS]

  day you will see nonlinear time there's [TS]

  so much of it you won't even believe it [TS]

  Joe steel thank you bb excellent to each [TS]

  other [TS]

  thank you whoa holy in Sims thank you [TS]

  thank you and Glenn fleischmann thank [TS]

  you for going to be here [TS]

  well you know I knew it would come out [TS]

  this way but I still showed up this was [TS]

  a place this was a pleasure all good and [TS]

  will be eternally in nonlinear time and [TS]

  space [TS]

  thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

  to this edition of the uncomfortable [TS]

  will see last week or next week for now [TS]

  [Music] [TS]