0:00:07the incomparable part test 234 april
0:00:14we are back on the incomparable i am
0:00:17jason l your host our topic today is
0:00:20from page to screen we're going to talk
0:00:23about books being made into movies or TV
0:00:26shows the good examples if there are
0:00:29such things
0:00:30the terrible examples there are plenty
0:00:32of those and joining me today to discuss
0:00:36this we have Dan Morgan hi Dan jason
0:00:40scott McNulty hello hello and John
0:00:44siracusa good evening good evening
0:00:48so this was a good idea brought up
0:00:50actually by Scott McNulty so full credit
0:00:52to him with the game of thrones having
0:00:55just premiered on HBO TV series based on
0:00:59a series of novels by george RR martin
0:01:02and we're going to talk about that
0:01:03series probably a couple of times in the
0:01:06next couple of months but that's not
0:01:08really as much the topic of tonight's
0:01:10incomparable as it is a jumping-off
0:01:14point now many of us I think have read
0:01:17the novel game of thrones and i think
0:01:19it's interesting that even after one
0:01:21episode if you've seen it it's a very
0:01:24faithful retailing and actually i didn't
0:01:26get the heebie-jeebies from it like I i
0:01:28have with some other adaptations as
0:01:31anybody else just really quickly as
0:01:33anybody else seen the first episode of
0:01:34Game of Thrones haven't actually watched
0:01:37you guys suck okay i don't watch it John
0:01:41watched him i didn't have read the books
0:01:43though so I'm coming into it ah
0:01:44interesting though I read the books and
0:01:47I watched oh yeah what
0:01:48so what did you think did it do the same
0:01:50faithful to faithful not faithful enough
0:01:52I i did not get any heebie-jeebies good
0:01:55just kind of you and me behind that I
0:01:59thought was pretty faithful i mean i
0:02:00read the books
0:02:01long long ago but it's it reminded me of
0:02:05what was happening in the book so that
0:02:08seems good
0:02:09I mean it with what it's an HBO series
0:02:10so I think that kind of front-loaded
0:02:13some more sex than was perhaps in the
0:02:15first the beginning of the books to get
0:02:18people interested in the fantasy show
0:02:20but other than that yeah you know I
0:02:23think I think it was faithful I I think
0:02:25there's a lot of downloading to be done
0:02:27there
0:02:28about this world and i can understand
0:02:30that would be kind of hard to get it all
0:02:31I mean John you you haven't read the
0:02:34book but you watched it was it didn't
0:02:36seem like you could you could follow it
0:02:38or was it sort of like wow without a map
0:02:41i have no idea what's going on here
0:02:42it was okay for our first episode III
0:02:45didn't feel like it was racing away from
0:02:46my understanding i was but they didn't
0:02:49spend too much time dwelling on things
0:02:51but they spent enough time that you
0:02:54understood the players were and and you
0:02:56know how the pieces are arranged on the
0:02:57board sort of so i think it struck a
0:02:59good balance in terms of exposition and
0:03:01and drama
0:03:03yeah I will worry bicep I season three
0:03:05or four lost Rajas too many characters I
0:03:08i think that i would be worried normally
0:03:10about about something like that having
0:03:12read the book I'd watch that first step
0:03:13of soda say wow this is dense are people
0:03:16going to get this but you know it's no
0:03:18more dense than the wire
0:03:19really yeah i mean there's there's
0:03:20plenty of TV shows that are out there
0:03:22and HBO is obviously a great example of
0:03:24org or something like madmen for example
0:03:26is just like where there's a lot of
0:03:28players but people are people are pretty
0:03:30good at keeping those things straight
0:03:31especially if they do as they appear to
0:03:33have done here such a good job with
0:03:34casting to the point of you know really
0:03:37finding people who look like these
0:03:38characters and are different enough so
0:03:40it doesn't look like it and Martin's
0:03:41books have a wide enough range of
0:03:43characters that it's not like oh it's
0:03:45another guy that I can't tell from any
0:03:48of the other guys so in talking about
0:03:50adaptations let's let's start with once
0:03:53we think that are good and to to talk
0:03:55about that i'm going to go to answer
0:03:58because I think of nobody who is more
0:03:59positive and and trying to illuminate
0:04:03what's good in the world than john john
0:04:05g houses some suggestions for good
0:04:08adaptations i do I thought working some
0:04:11negative stuff too because my good self
0:04:13my first one is dune and this is a movie
0:04:18that wasn't from the eighties yes and I
0:04:20was long ago actually that was five I
0:04:22believe yeah it was David Lynch was very
0:04:25short very strange director who has a
0:04:27lot of character released within a
0:04:30couple weeks of one of the ones i'm
0:04:31going to talk about
0:04:32strangely enough anyway and your image
0:04:34and sting
0:04:35yes yes so and Kyle make sure to
0:04:41I'm not gonna hold up doing as like a a
0:04:43a great movie about this one thing you
0:04:46can say about for doing is that it's
0:04:47interesting there's very little and a
0:04:50movie that is expected or boring even
0:04:53though it is a sci-fi movie so
0:04:54everything about it is kind of weird
0:04:56like it should be in a David Lynch movie
0:04:57the character is a weird the
0:04:59performances are weird the casting is
0:05:01weird with that this thing doing there
0:05:03the set design everything about it is
0:05:05weird now if you compare it to the book
0:05:07i know a lot of people really love the
0:05:08doing book but I didn't dislike I guess
0:05:12I kind of did dislike the notebook is it
0:05:13i just don't like Frank Herbert is a
0:05:15writer I just think he's boring and the
0:05:18book he was so wrapped up talk about
0:05:20planting intriguing idea that's our own
0:05:22there i think that's unfair because
0:05:23after the first 250 pages dude picks up
0:05:28oh oh oh no you're right it'sit's really
0:05:34boring and then there's some action but
0:05:36but seriously i looked and it was it's
0:05:38about 250 pages of just death before you
0:05:40get there
0:05:41yeah and the thing about it is he's got
0:05:44this very interesting world but
0:05:45obviously david lynch didn't make up the
0:05:47source material so that the world that
0:05:48Frank Harper made up and doing is very
0:05:50interesting and has lots of cool things
0:05:52in it
0:05:53none of which he describes because he's
0:05:55more interested in describing the sort
0:05:57of political intrigue and he is
0:05:59describing any of the very interesting
0:06:01aspects of the society or technology i
0:06:03which is why when David Lynch made the
0:06:05movie he could make the characters the
0:06:08settings the vehicles look like whatever
0:06:10the heck he wanted other than the fact
0:06:11that sandwich was probably look like
0:06:12worms everything else was up for grabs
0:06:15so he said fine you're not going to
0:06:16describe anything your book i'm going to
0:06:17make the ship's look like gigantic art
0:06:19deco you know bed headboards or
0:06:22something flying through the air and i'm
0:06:23going to make the navigators look like
0:06:24giant floating slug things and you know
0:06:26he did just whatever that he wanted i
0:06:28think that that freedom of frank herbert
0:06:30not describing anything and not really
0:06:32being a writer's writer and david lynch
0:06:34being absolutely crazy and a director's
0:06:36director produced this wonderful strange
0:06:39movie that i think is better than the
0:06:41book and most of the ways that movie can
0:06:43be better than the book I mean obviously
0:06:44doesn't really hold together as a movie
0:06:46and it's kind of nonsensical and then it
0:06:48deviates from the book in many important
0:06:50ways in terms of you know that the world
0:06:53and then and that the magic powers in
0:06:54the plot but i but i'm watching I'm like
0:06:56I don't care go ahead David Lynch show
0:06:58me what you've got and I just just get a
0:07:00good vibe out of it home i thought
0:07:01that's one of the best examples of book
0:07:03that was like okay it's alright it's got
0:07:05some crazy things about and frank
0:07:07herbert's kind of a boring writer if you
0:07:09put that kind of booked into the hands
0:07:11of a very yeah talented quirky director
0:07:15you get an interesting movie did you see
0:07:17the sci-fi miniseries of doom
0:07:19unfortunately thanks Harvey I don't know
0:07:23we were going to TV if I had to go
0:07:24things I was doing goes to a movie you
0:07:26get this very interesting movie from
0:07:27david lynch then it goes to TV
0:07:28miniseries and if you're a big fan of
0:07:30the book you're like all finally
0:07:31miniseries I give the room the books
0:07:33room to breathe but you can see again
0:07:36because there's no real descriptions of
0:07:38stuff in the book you can do anything
0:07:39you want and the TV series what they did
0:07:41was made
0:07:41things not very interesting and kind of
0:07:44ugly and the reduction sort of felt like
0:07:46you know of what you'd expect from a
0:07:48sci-fi channel show right it was sort of
0:07:49like the sci-fi channel version of doing
0:07:51which is exactly what it was and it
0:07:53looked like that it felt like that i
0:07:54don't think it was that Latin it
0:07:56it lived in the shadow of the David
0:07:57Lynch 10 because he had such a defining
0:07:59vision of what all this stuff is like I
0:08:01think that maybe was more entertaining
0:08:02but I it certainly didn't attempt to do
0:08:06anything interesting
0:08:07now yeah I don't wanna fight i mean i
0:08:10don't think it was terrible as far as
0:08:12sci-fi series go but it's really didn't
0:08:15stick with me and it took Scott's point
0:08:17the sequel was atrocious
0:08:19so yeah I know source material is
0:08:21atrocious I don't have enough to stop
0:08:23reading the source material for that do
0:08:24not that after reading one Frank Herbert
0:08:26book i was like he had enough of this
0:08:27guy so my second one should i do my
0:08:32second year ago somebody else not go for
0:08:34it
0:08:34ok so my second one this is an easy one
0:08:36but what most people don't think of but
0:08:38i do of course but such a big Stephen
0:08:40King fan is Rita Hayworth and the
0:08:41shawshank redemption and I think this is
0:08:43a perfect example because so many of
0:08:45Stephen King's things have been made
0:08:49into movies and so many of the movies
0:08:50have been so terrible
0:08:52now here's an example that I think
0:08:54pretty much everyone can agree it's a
0:08:55fantastic movie and the reason it's a
0:08:57fantastic movie is a few things one
0:08:59stephen king is an amazing storyteller
0:09:01not an amazing writer but an amazing
0:09:02storyteller and two it's a short story
0:09:05it's not a novel so pretty much
0:09:07everything he put on the page you have
0:09:08room for a 22 and a half hour movie so
0:09:11you get to take this story by a great
0:09:14storyteller and play it out exactly as
0:09:17it is in the book without having to drop
0:09:18anything without having to crazy edits
0:09:20and then the final thing is there's
0:09:21nothing supernatural in this story every
0:09:23time the supernatural stuff in a stephen
0:09:25king book it kind of goes off the rails
0:09:28when they try to fill it because either
0:09:29it's hokey and it only works when you
0:09:30write it but we try to film it looks
0:09:32ridiculous or just they don't know how
0:09:34to film with the right way or it's
0:09:36supposed to be scary it just looks dumb
0:09:37you know it's very difficult to do you
0:09:39know supernatural horror very well in
0:09:42film it's easier to do it in a book
0:09:43where you're writing about it
0:09:45so this this had no supernatural stuff
0:09:47so they just ghosts from a straight
0:09:48story about people with no magic and
0:09:50you know a couple hundred pages and they
0:09:52just put direct the film and give it a
0:09:54good cast in a good director and makes
0:09:56an excellent movie you know another
0:09:58chance to John's point I think he makes
0:10:01a really good point because I thought
0:10:03about this in the past the short stories
0:10:05and movies are actually in some ways a
0:10:06lot I feel like closer in in art form
0:10:09than novels and movies and that's
0:10:12because short stories are so economical
0:10:14there's such a it so there's a unity
0:10:16right of of point like it's very focused
0:10:19it'sit's doesn't have a lot of
0:10:20extraneous tangents you don't usually
0:10:22have like a dude you know tons of
0:10:24characters if there's something very
0:10:26focused about it whereas in a novel you
0:10:28know I feel like in some ways novels are
0:10:30better adapted to things like TV series
0:10:32as you're doing that came two thrones
0:10:33because they give you a little time to
0:10:34delve into the side plots and you know
0:10:37characters with their own things going
0:10:39on there's a little more room to work on
0:10:41something like that then there is to
0:10:43condense into a knot into a movie in
0:10:44which you know it's two hours two and a
0:10:46half hours you've got to take stuff out
0:10:47you gotta throw out an entire train
0:10:50these things that are the takeaway from
0:10:51the main plot of the movie and stuff
0:10:52like that so I think there is something
0:10:54very interesting about adapting a short
0:10:56story to movie as opposed to a novel it
0:10:59really depends on the author to because
0:11:00I mean even though this is a short story
0:11:02it's not like a you know 20 pager like
0:11:04some people short stories it's a Steven
0:11:06articles in nova or whatever button and
0:11:08Stephen King world short as you know 200
0:11:10pages 250 pages and that's just the
0:11:12right length for a movie i probably
0:11:14can't get away with going doing ten
0:11:16fifteen thirty pager into into a
0:11:19feature-length movie or for most longer
0:11:21short stories from throw authors that
0:11:23tend to produce thousand-page books that
0:11:25perfectly in that
0:11:26and speaking of thousand-page books that
0:11:28is my my final selection here which is
0:11:31Lord of the Rings I you pick me first to
0:11:32get the ticket before everybody else
0:11:34now i'm a big fan of lord of the rings
0:11:36books and for many years everyone you
0:11:38know help Lord of the Rings up this as a
0:11:40series of books they're basically
0:11:42unfilmable because they just they're
0:11:44just too much in them too many settings
0:11:46too much magic stuff too expensive but
0:11:48through the magic of computer technology
0:11:51suddenly the unfilmable became film
0:11:52alone are within our lifetime and they
0:11:54gave it to a director who dedicated his
0:11:56you know many years of his life to it
0:11:59and they got actors who were similarly
0:12:00able to dedicate themselves
0:12:02animated series of movies out of it and
0:12:04they weren't terrible which is quite a
0:12:07feat considering like all the Lord of
0:12:09the Rings fans like all please don't
0:12:10feel miserable just be horrible you'll
0:12:12just be destroying these books I to make
0:12:14them not terrible i think what they had
0:12:16to do is decide you know this is a giant
0:12:191,500 pages for the text or whatever
0:12:21we're gonna have to pick some part of it
0:12:23to concentrate on the movies and they
0:12:24picked to concentrate on the stuff that
0:12:26works well in the movies big epic quest
0:12:28battles 12 characters that you follow
0:12:31through the whole thing and then
0:12:32everything else got cut
0:12:33Tom Bombadil cut all the whimsical stuff
0:12:35got cut all the you know how about
0:12:37family stuff got cut all you know just
0:12:39just cut mercilessly remove everything
0:12:42that is you know that people love about
0:12:43the books but just does not work in the
0:12:45movie and dedicate themselves fully to
0:12:47the epic quest and sam and frodo and
0:12:49doing the whole story on there are lots
0:12:52of problems with those movies and some
0:12:53of the choices I made
0:12:55I don't really agree with if we ever do
0:12:56a lot of the Rings episode we can talk
0:12:57about them but to their credit i think
0:13:00they made probably the best movie you
0:13:04could have made especially in a first
0:13:06attempt at making movies of these things
0:13:07maybe if I live to be a ripe old age of
0:13:0995 some will try to refill these movies
0:13:11and have a different take and do it
0:13:13better so that those are good movies to
0:13:14the point where my wife said I've never
0:13:17read the book because I everything time
0:13:19you describe it to me I'm terrified and
0:13:21I like the movies so that's good enough
0:13:23i don't need anymore
0:13:25that's enough we have the expanded
0:13:26additions and although this goes to the
0:13:28point that there's more story there it's
0:13:30a long book 2 or series books if you
0:13:32want to be with that way it so they did
0:13:35three movies and in fact there's a tit
0:13:37like a 10-hour cut of the framing tables
0:13:39too and we want we actually do that
0:13:41every every Christmas we sort of do a
0:13:43little Lord of the Rings festival we I
0:13:45think we didn't do last year but but I'm
0:13:47we try to do it every holiday for six
0:13:50nights basically it's a disco night and
0:13:52and you make your own little mini series
0:13:53basically and it's great because those
0:13:55are a really really fun and well well
0:13:58made movies and I got a very different
0:14:00feeling watching the movies and do
0:14:02reading the book so much so that it
0:14:04they're just they're barely related to
0:14:06my mind because when i read the books
0:14:07i'm thinking of like returning to a
0:14:10world and then getting into all that
0:14:12sort of you know
0:14:13folklore and then whimsical stuff or
0:14:16whatever and the movies are much more
0:14:17about an adventure
0:14:19alright everyone more thing before we
0:14:21move on this is just in general love
0:14:24when i was reading a book I guess couple
0:14:26years ago I was thinking about things
0:14:29that you can do in books that you can't
0:14:30do in movies and then it most people
0:14:32don't think about this think about the
0:14:33other way things you can do in movies
0:14:34that can't be done in books because you
0:14:36just got words when you've got pictures
0:14:37you can do so much more
0:14:38so I was reading a deepness in the sky
0:14:41by vernor vinge hope you're doing
0:14:42episode on him eventually you will and
0:14:45about half of that book is spent on this
0:14:49this alien world where the spider aliens
0:14:51are and there are characters there that
0:14:53you follow their just as important as
0:14:55the human characters and these
0:14:56characters have a work life and jobs and
0:14:59and friends and family and romance and
0:15:02as a government and they have you know a
0:15:03society and everything down there and
0:15:06then not the space you've got the humans
0:15:08and it's kind of a split 50-50 between
0:15:09these two things parallel storylines and
0:15:13then later in the book eventually the
0:15:15humans go down onto the planet and they
0:15:17meet these elements of the first times
0:15:19and it's the first time that you get
0:15:22narration from the humans point of view
0:15:24of what they see when they see the
0:15:26aliens and what they see is just like a
0:15:28shiny exoskeleton and like legs
0:15:30everywhere and hissing and clicking and
0:15:32little letting emotions from their
0:15:34eyelids and everything going different
0:15:36directions and at that point the book
0:15:38you realize that the point of view from
0:15:42the spiderlings for the whole rest of
0:15:44the book you're everything was being
0:15:46translated into human terms for you you
0:15:48know they didn't say in it when you when
0:15:51they were describing the spider world
0:15:52that the spider wave it slant na and
0:15:54made this clicking noise around like
0:15:55they just they just played out as if
0:15:57there were humans and it made you relate
0:15:59to them and only when the two things
0:16:00come together do you realize how
0:16:01incredibly alien these things are how
0:16:04different they are from humans even
0:16:06though from the spiders perspective
0:16:08everything is normal from the human
0:16:09perspective that just horrible hideous
0:16:11creatures you know and this is this
0:16:14moment you can't have a moment like this
0:16:15in a movie because either you show the
0:16:17spiders from the very beginning as being
0:16:20hideous spider aliens who don't speak
0:16:21and don't have normal language don't
0:16:23have normal gestures and you know it
0:16:25you've already doing mid smells or wave
0:16:27their tentacles around or whatever and
0:16:29tennis whatever or you show them humans
0:16:32instead of spiders and then when you
0:16:34reveal that there spiders you know then
0:16:36that the audience feels like it was a
0:16:37cheat you know you could try to use some
0:16:39sort of visual device to to say how you
0:16:41know you were showing them as humans to
0:16:43not put you off of them but really
0:16:44they're spiders the whole time and the
0:16:47audience would not like that
0:16:48so this lack of visuals in the book was
0:16:51not going to hide the fact that spiders
0:16:52in the book right from the beginning
0:16:53they said yeah these are spider aliens
0:16:55and they just go on and draw you into
0:16:56the lives of these spider aliens the
0:16:59fact that there's no pictures constantly
0:17:01reminding you that these are spider
0:17:02aliens allows the book to do something
0:17:05you could never do in the movie because
0:17:06it doesn't have any pictures in at home
0:17:08and that one particular scene i was the
0:17:10first time I realized that there was you
0:17:12know something that besides length and
0:17:15you detail and stuff that you can do
0:17:17just because books are so much longer
0:17:18than then the movies that you can do in
0:17:20books you actually can't do movies
0:17:22because they lack pictures and that was
0:17:24my favorite moments of that that book
0:17:26there
0:17:27yeah and I i do think it is unfilmable a
0:17:30good story though
0:17:31yeah i mean that's on film over for
0:17:35other reasons too but but just for that
0:17:37the spider aliens humanity thing just
0:17:40would not work i'm screaming there's no
0:17:42way to pull it off
0:17:43you've got to stop right with that oh no
0:17:46it's not gonna happen
0:17:48dan do you have a recommendation or two
0:17:51of good adaptations i was looking
0:17:55casting my sort of eyes over my
0:17:56bookshelf as I was sitting here trying
0:17:58to think which of these books have been
0:17:59made into movies and and some of them
0:18:00have actually there are several on my
0:18:03bookshelf that are due to be made into
0:18:05movies which I'm interested to see but
0:18:07most of the ones that I'm coming up with
0:18:09are not science fiction or fantasy books
0:18:11but like things like mysteries and
0:18:13another other sort of genre books and
0:18:15and so I feel you know I don't know
0:18:17maybe it's a cheap but a one of my one
0:18:19of my favorite books by one of my
0:18:21favorite authors is the big sleep by
0:18:24raymond chandler which is a fantastic
0:18:26mystery book circa nineteen forties
0:18:29leaving the 39 maybe was written it was
0:18:33made into a movie in 46 with Humphrey
0:18:35Bogart and Lauren Bacall and it's an
0:18:38absolutely fantastic movie of an
0:18:40absolute
0:18:40a fantastic book and i think it's it's
0:18:43hard you'd be hard-pressed to do an
0:18:46adaptation maybe that's something
0:18:47there's something about that that's very
0:18:49much related to the time in which was
0:18:50written or filmed but i feel like you
0:18:52know it would be hard to do a modern
0:18:54adaptation of today or to do it well but
0:18:57there's there's something that's a big
0:18:59challenge I think in many ways because
0:19:01the plot of a of something like a
0:19:04Raymond Chandler mystery well you know
0:19:06mysteries you often often think of them
0:19:07as being related to the plot but I think
0:19:09such a big appeal from Chandler is the
0:19:11language and you know as much as you can
0:19:13translate some of that into dialogue
0:19:15there's so much stuff that doesn't get
0:19:17me doesn't make that jump like John was
0:19:19saying like the you know unless you have
0:19:21a voiceover narration which lends a
0:19:24whole different quality to your movie as
0:19:26you know anybody who's watched three
0:19:28different versions of blade runner
0:19:29wallet asked me if I may have stopped my
0:19:31short story or yeah actually or is that
0:19:33an oval exactly what the ball two novel
0:19:36i read I've read it Irene yes I've as
0:19:38well it seems like a shorter than shot
0:19:40at redemption but I mean something like
0:19:43that in terms of you know it's hard to
0:19:45film something like that relies so much
0:19:48on on the pros right it's hard to do a
0:19:51great translation of that and yet the
0:19:53movie ends up being you know quite
0:19:55gripping in its in its own way and so
0:19:59that's that's one example of something
0:20:01that I that I quite enjoyed I'm trying
0:20:05again I'm coming up with all this stuff
0:20:06I feel like that that i really like that
0:20:08is not did that is sort of out of our
0:20:10DIY I've got an honor and my list too so
0:20:13don't have that so ok so altar and then
0:20:15a couple of adaptations of works by the
0:20:18corner with a salon y 0 0 which was we
0:20:22can't i can i'm going to 1 i'm going to
0:20:24say hi fidelity and we said about a boy
0:20:26then because which is also also a good
0:20:29movie yes an excellent movie and an
0:20:31excellent book yeah and so again
0:20:33hornby someone else who's writing is
0:20:35such a huge like you know he's got great
0:20:37prose absolutely really knows how to
0:20:39craft a sentence as hard to make that
0:20:41transition to film because you know his
0:20:45plots good news characters are good too
0:20:46which is what makes the film you know
0:20:48about a boy so good you know enjoyable
0:20:52yeah but at the same time you you know
0:20:53oh there's it's a totally different
0:20:54experience reading the book and so i
0:20:57think i read the book after i had seen
0:20:58the movie and you know there is that as
0:21:02you're talking with your wife you know
0:21:03there's that the disparities like wow I
0:21:05like the movie I mean maybe I like the
0:21:07book but you know my just gonna be
0:21:08picturing the same characters and yet
0:21:10for me it was totally you know totally
0:21:12different experience you know
0:21:14yes it was a story although it's the
0:21:17same story and the same characters it
0:21:19feels like something it feels like a
0:21:23different telling of the story of how
0:21:25well they understand there are also some
0:21:26changes in the in the movement from from
0:21:29the book and likewise high-fidelity I
0:21:30mean first off and set in Chicago
0:21:32instead of in London and they're all
0:21:34there are other things about it that are
0:21:35very different but in the same in the
0:21:38same way i think both of those movies
0:21:39have the have a sort of spirit of the
0:21:42book and the heart of the book is is
0:21:44where it should be and as a result they
0:21:46both work even though i'm a huge fan of
0:21:49his work and of those books and I I
0:21:51didn't feel offended by the changes they
0:21:54made because I felt like they were they
0:21:55were smart changes made for adapting it
0:21:58to a different medium which i Ken saying
0:22:00that they respect the spirit i think is
0:22:02really important like they do they
0:22:03somehow fit totally with with what he's
0:22:06the story he's generally tell and i
0:22:07would love to see he's written at least
0:22:09three other books that i think would be
0:22:11just excellent
0:22:12you know adaptations including a long
0:22:15way down
0:22:15slam which always I'm gonna be great
0:22:19yeah and a podcast and his most recent
0:22:21one Juliet naked which is a great just a
0:22:24great lackeys an expert at crafting
0:22:27stories and and like like John saying
0:22:31let's even kinghorn we can tell a great
0:22:32story and I think that that have really
0:22:34helps when you're translating something
0:22:36from from page to screen trying to think
0:22:40if there's one other thing on my so
0:22:42actually I'm going to let me let me
0:22:44branch off of something you said there
0:22:45which is we're talking about these
0:22:46movies that made changes to the book and
0:22:47i think it's worth at least touching on
0:22:50for a minute there can be adaptations
0:22:52that fail because they honor the source
0:22:54material too much and I think there are
0:22:56medications that are successful because
0:22:58they don't know is whether the slavish
0:23:02adaptation right is yeah is a problem in
0:23:06some ways if you are
0:23:07if hearing so closely to the weather of
0:23:09the book that you miss a book is not a
0:23:12movie right you know they're
0:23:13fundamentally two different forms like
0:23:15Dom saying there's things you can't do
0:23:16in a movie that you can do in a book and
0:23:18vice versa and so you know if you're
0:23:21trying to get here so closely then it
0:23:23loses it's like trying to make a
0:23:25photocopy and you know you might get
0:23:27sort of some of the fidelity but if you
0:23:29make a photocopy of a painting or
0:23:30something you know it's not you you're
0:23:33trying to reproduce it so exactly that
0:23:35you're you lose something of the
0:23:37original in that and and I think it's
0:23:40you know best when you put it in the
0:23:42hands of somebody who's really an artist
0:23:44in their own particular you know media
0:23:47right I think that's case number one
0:23:50item number one on the case against
0:23:51watchman is that is that he tried so
0:23:55hard to be faithfully you know including
0:23:57shot-by-shot recreations of panels and
0:24:00in the end the most interesting thing in
0:24:02that movie and I don't think it's as bad
0:24:03as most people think it is but not
0:24:06enough saying parts of it are terrible
0:24:07but um but the most interesting thing in
0:24:09the entire movie I think that everybody
0:24:10seems to like is the opening credits
0:24:12where he does something different that
0:24:15fits the medium that he's in even though
0:24:17he's telling the same story and the
0:24:19opening credit montage is fantastic and
0:24:21then you know but the rest of that movie
0:24:23is with the exception of trying to fix
0:24:25the the the ending which is kind of
0:24:27broken in the original to its it's so
0:24:31it's honoring the the gravity which is
0:24:34great and i love it so much so that I
0:24:37think it stifles the movie i think it
0:24:39actually kills it and that is another
0:24:41great you know example of that sort of
0:24:43thing although it's going from film to
0:24:44film is Gus Van Sant's attempt to do a
0:24:47shop by shop remake of psycho which
0:24:49totally loses the thread
0:24:53I mean you know again what you're trying
0:24:55to it there's a question of why but
0:24:57there's also a well clearly there's
0:24:59something going out going on in you know
0:25:01something on you know intangible going
0:25:04on in the original if you can copy a
0:25:05shot-by-shot and you go from making a
0:25:07one of the like best
0:25:09you know thriller movies ever 21 works
0:25:13throughout the movies ever
0:25:14clearly there's something that you're
0:25:16missing there and I think that's the
0:25:18danger of
0:25:19adapting a visual story to another
0:25:22visual medium right because you know
0:25:24graphic novels you have you can see it
0:25:26so you're tempted I imagine I've never
0:25:29made it with me but I would imagine that
0:25:30I would be tempted i love this graphic
0:25:32novel so much I want to take like the
0:25:34guys already laid out what it looks like
0:25:36so i can take that and just make it into
0:25:38my movie and it should be perfect and
0:25:41sadly it is not that's kind of us are
0:25:43called because like at this point comics
0:25:46especially about time watch men are
0:25:47being influenced by cinema so it's like
0:25:49it's a circle around where people are
0:25:50putting in comic panels cinematic points
0:25:53of view or things that they've seen in
0:25:55movies and then that gets fed back into
0:25:57a movie that gets fed back into the
0:25:58comic books that are there are certain
0:25:59things that are standard for comic books
0:26:01things that are standard forms but at
0:26:02this point they're so mixed up that it
0:26:05like it for someone who hadn't read the
0:26:06group The Watchmen graphic novel and I
0:26:08saw the movie
0:26:09sometimes I could pick out obviously
0:26:11they doing that thing where they picked
0:26:12a cell from that you know frame from the
0:26:14comic book and they're doing on screen
0:26:16but other points i could totally not
0:26:17telling only later when i went through
0:26:19the graphic novel that I see how that's
0:26:21actually something from the novel i was
0:26:22sure that was just something that was
0:26:24put in the movie because it's so
0:26:25cinematic and and what I see in the
0:26:28comic books like a freeze frame from a
0:26:30movie instead of vice versa
0:26:31huh that's a good point that's a good
0:26:34point just got what about you do you
0:26:36have some sterling examples of
0:26:38adaptations for us
0:26:40well sterling I don't know about butBut
0:26:42fun yes so and this one I don't know if
0:26:45it was going to Ruth you're not but i
0:26:47did enjoy the most recent hitchhiker's
0:26:50guide to the galaxy movie which I didn't
0:26:54get very good reviews and I heard
0:26:56someone say you so that was maybe as I
0:26:58may be alone in this but i think yeah I
0:27:01didn't I didn't I didn't load that I
0:27:02don't think I felt badly about it is as
0:27:04other people do but I you know it wasn't
0:27:05a perfect movie but I was disappointed I
0:27:07was disappointed by it more than and
0:27:09it's not love the source material so
0:27:11much it did have its moments
0:27:13that's why I enjoyed the moments I any
0:27:16movie that starts with dolphins singing
0:27:18a song it's really okay in my book
0:27:21and so it can only go up from there or I
0:27:24guess down from there you had never read
0:27:25a book do you think you would have
0:27:27enjoyed the movie at all
0:27:28I probably not i think that i love the
0:27:32books
0:27:32much that it gained a halo effect and
0:27:35the because you know what they're doing
0:27:37like they did select this seemed like it
0:27:39was like selected scenes from the
0:27:40hitchhiker's guide and if you ever read
0:27:42the whole thing the selected seems like
0:27:44oh yeah I remember that party during a
0:27:45movie now I look at it in a different
0:27:47part you know but there was simply
0:27:49didn't you know i can see that another
0:27:51example of a book that it you know you
0:27:53could argue is unfilmable and of course
0:27:55you know maybe nothing's really
0:27:56unfilmable in this day and age but again
0:27:59there's something so in eight in in the
0:28:02way the Adams writes that well and yet
0:28:05the BBC series miniseries isn't it you
0:28:08know is I think better you know tied
0:28:12into the well the novel that material is
0:28:15too long for a movie and the other thing
0:28:16is it's like then was saying that the
0:28:19transitions in the book from one Rico's
0:28:21think the next happen because of douglas
0:28:24adams writing so he brings you from you
0:28:26know 1 plus the other unless you're
0:28:27going to translate his writing directly
0:28:29into a voiceover and do it in a
0:28:30long-running miniseries this you can't
0:28:32visually transition from one set of
0:28:35events together without Douglas Adam
0:28:37writing you through it tonight is toss
0:28:39up the guide in most cases and have the
0:28:41guide you know and and that can work or
0:28:43not that happens in the in the TV series
0:28:45the BBC TV series as well we're all of a
0:28:48sudden you're back in the guide and I I
0:28:49think of the movie they they they did a
0:28:51pretty interesting job of trying to
0:28:53weave the hitchhiker's guide itself into
0:28:55the into the story but i suppose it
0:28:57might make no sense if you haven't read
0:28:58the book and it takes you out of the
0:29:00movie experience that once you once even
0:29:02let us probably voiceover is there any
0:29:04sort of thing where you have like a
0:29:05title card right you're taking me out of
0:29:06the cinematic experience and saying now
0:29:08we're going to read your blog and now
0:29:09we're going to take your buddy Silver's
0:29:10yeah i mean this the shawshank
0:29:12redemption has voiceover I mean like you
0:29:14know there is there yet but it is not
0:29:16time in place for them but the
0:29:18voice-over is not from the book the
0:29:19voice-over is a device to make the movie
0:29:21work it's not like show crazy scene then
0:29:24grabbed three power is out of the book
0:29:26and put them up on the screen as a
0:29:27voice-over and then show another crazy
0:29:29see you know but i think i think what
0:29:31they were trying to do in the
0:29:32hitchhiker's movie is something it as i
0:29:36recall having only seen once something
0:29:38almost more like I like what they didn't
0:29:41scott pilgrim where it's it's like a
0:29:43trying to be kind of this overlay
0:29:46multiple you know where modern people we
0:29:49multitask and here's this crazy
0:29:50hitchhiker's guide because in some ways
0:29:51the hitchhiker's guide as a concept
0:29:53makes more sense now than it did then in
0:29:55a way it's more real because we have
0:29:57like Wikipedia and iPads and things like
0:29:59that it's true and and so I kind of
0:30:02think of it as like a at least in the
0:30:04movie they kind of get like a pop-up
0:30:06video kind of thing right so they would
0:30:08be the the entry and hitchhiker's guide
0:30:10that Stephen Fry would read because he
0:30:12was the voice of the trackers got in the
0:30:14movie was related to whatever action
0:30:17maybe not directly but in some way that
0:30:20was happening in the movie so kind of
0:30:21gay and not you know i know this movie
0:30:23is not great but I enjoyed it so it kind
0:30:26of gave people who haven't read the book
0:30:28an idea of what's going on
0:30:29all right at least that's what they were
0:30:31trying any other suggestions
0:30:34Scott well i will suggest i only like
0:30:38this movie because i hated the book so
0:30:40much
0:30:41ah so I i will say harry potter i enjoy
0:30:44the movie much more than I enjoyed the
0:30:46book did you watch other harry potter
0:30:48movies i have watched all the harry
0:30:50potter movie is a matter of fact and
0:30:52refuse to read any of the books after
0:30:54the first one very interesting
0:30:56Scott and I to harry potter haters who
0:30:58have all seen all the movies it's right
0:31:01I like Harry Potter even though I have
0:31:05to admit this as i'm reading them out
0:31:07loud to my kids that she's really not a
0:31:09very good writer she's a good thank
0:31:11world builder and you can you know she's
0:31:14good world builder and that comes across
0:31:16the movies and she I think she gets
0:31:20better as a writer as she goes along she
0:31:25clearly learns are inherently podcast
0:31:27talking talking about i think it does i
0:31:29think I hydrated editor more later but
0:31:32she's a better writer i think i think
0:31:34it's this weird thing where she got less
0:31:36editing because she was famous but she
0:31:37was also actually working hard writing
0:31:40these huge books and was just it was
0:31:42getting better at her craft as she went
0:31:44which is weird so she ended up being
0:31:46kind of like need still needing an
0:31:47editor but clearly being better what
0:31:50she's doing
0:31:51then she was at the beginning but the
0:31:53world building is great and that leads
0:31:55to these great movies that are a lot of
0:31:56fun because there is some so much
0:31:59interesting stuff to base the movie on
0:32:01because it's she's got a plot and she's
0:32:03got an interesting world which is a good
0:32:05source material for a movie i was going
0:32:08to hold these movies up as an example of
0:32:11even though i haven't read the books as
0:32:13an example of movies that suffered from
0:32:16being too faithful for the book not that
0:32:19they took everything that was in the
0:32:21books and put it in there but they felt
0:32:22the need to us at all we gotta have the
0:32:25element X so we gotta have character why
0:32:26are we going to have elements see and
0:32:28they they did that too much they didn't
0:32:29cut enough so what you end up with
0:32:31especially for someone who hasn't read
0:32:32the book and especially in later movies
0:32:34are these movies where it's like Andrew
0:32:36this this character in this plot point
0:32:38and don't forget about this character
0:32:39this plot point and by the way this
0:32:40character this plot point and we'll hit
0:32:41about this backstory but now it was too
0:32:43many little things that were to just
0:32:45jointed because they could not bear to
0:32:47not have this thing in the movie when
0:32:49really to make a better movie you should
0:32:50have cut those characters combined
0:32:52characters into one you know maybe I i
0:32:54can see why you're saying that but
0:32:56having read the books they actually do a
0:32:59lot of that that I didn't have enough
0:33:00they threw I think through as much out
0:33:03as they thought they could get away with
0:33:04a couldn't like combined characters for
0:33:06example but I I do
0:33:08having just seen one of these the other
0:33:10day we my kids saw the fourth one for
0:33:12the first time because we're watching
0:33:14them after we read the books and boy
0:33:16they they did a lot of compression
0:33:18compression which was good because it's
0:33:19a really long book and a lot of the
0:33:21stuff could just get tossed out the
0:33:22whole subplots get tossed out and things
0:33:24get shortened down and simplified and
0:33:26you know what they couldn't actually did
0:33:29a pretty good job of the plot resolution
0:33:32at the end because the book has got two
0:33:33chapters of just painful plot exposition
0:33:36at the end was like let me explain
0:33:38everything that's been happening behind
0:33:39the scenes while this entire book went
0:33:41on
0:33:41it's so awful and in the movie it's
0:33:44handled much more straightforwardly my
0:33:46wife was telling me that the big problem
0:33:48from respect that because she's at
0:33:49basically Harry Potter scholar at this
0:33:51point the box
0:33:52the big problem was that they started
0:33:54filming the movies before the books were
0:33:56done so because they didn't know where
0:33:57this series we're going they didn't know
0:33:59what was important and by the time you
0:34:01get three or four movies in you like we
0:34:03didn't even show this in movies 1 and 2
0:34:04because we didn't think it would be
0:34:05important but now in book five and six
0:34:07becomes super important and now we have
0:34:09to fill you know backfill i read an
0:34:12article on anything
0:34:13weekly a few years back but said that
0:34:15they actually had a few questions like
0:34:16that road and JK Rowling approves all
0:34:19the screenplays and she actually gave
0:34:21them note saying no you can't get rid of
0:34:23this character here because they are
0:34:25important later
0:34:26even though she hadn't written and
0:34:28published all the books yet she knew
0:34:29where the plot was going so they did
0:34:33some of that at least where she was like
0:34:34no no you can't take that out that
0:34:37someone could have been worse but from
0:34:39it from my wife's percentage and I think
0:34:40that's what I'm saying it could have
0:34:41been less interested there's the matter
0:34:44of this week's podcast it could have
0:34:45been worse along along those lines are
0:34:49really similar genre any-to-any CS lewis
0:34:53fans yeah I was a kid I read all those
0:34:56books I mean I i really have a fun spot
0:34:58for some of the books though going back
0:34:59and reread them at you know when
0:35:01slightly older you know there's a lot
0:35:03there's a different reading you get when
0:35:05you have an adult reading I totally
0:35:06missed the whole thing about ashlynn
0:35:08being Jesus yeah I think I i think that
0:35:11probably as it has a war you know the
0:35:12child of a family that didn't really
0:35:14know go to church have much in the way
0:35:16of religious upbringing that totally
0:35:18flew over my head as well
0:35:19that said I still think Lewis is a great
0:35:22storyteller and several books on their
0:35:24own are excellent excellent stories i
0:35:28mean the voyage of the dawn treader i
0:35:29have not seen the movie which is came
0:35:30out but you're like last year i guess
0:35:33but that book remains you know I'm very
0:35:35a it I idea has a very fond memory for
0:35:38me because it's very me and then later
0:35:40you know comparing with other things
0:35:42that reminds me very much of something
0:35:43like The Odyssey and it's got this was
0:35:45sort of a whole plot about you know
0:35:48going on this this lengthy boat ride
0:35:51with all these adventures and stuff like
0:35:52that and i thought i only saw the first
0:35:54of the movies which was okay i think to
0:35:58a certain extent they do fall into that
0:36:00trap of trying to remain a little bit
0:36:01too faithful and and it comes across as
0:36:04somewhat bloodless yeah diversity there
0:36:07there are some good points in it and
0:36:11there are some nice performances in some
0:36:14you know a couple things elements that I
0:36:16really did like but on the whole yeah it
0:36:20does come across as a little bit too i
0:36:23don't know just maybe just a little bit
0:36:24too bloodless and I did not see
0:36:27I heard the second one was better I
0:36:28didn't see it for a second was better on
0:36:30my I'm asking i say i was gonna say you
0:36:33hit it right on the nose with blood
0:36:34listen that the first movie was the best
0:36:36of them in terms of building the world's
0:36:40feel alive and making it feel like
0:36:41there's something at stake in making
0:36:42care about the characters in the red the
0:36:44second was their third movie I don't
0:36:46know if I've seen all them but it was
0:36:47the third they get progressively more
0:36:49generic and just nothing is at stake and
0:36:53you're not really excited about anyone
0:36:55that is going through the motions yeah
0:36:56that I'd argue that the best of the
0:36:58books maybe the ones that are tangential
0:37:00to thats whole series which are the
0:37:03horse and his boy and the magician's
0:37:05nephew in that they sort of they aren't
0:37:08about the characters that we follow
0:37:09through the first three or four books
0:37:11and they kind of stand on their own a
0:37:14little better so i don't know if they'll
0:37:16get around you know if it was i suppose
0:37:17as long as those movies keep making
0:37:19money than they keep making them but I
0:37:21don't know if they'll get around to
0:37:22those because they don't follow the sort
0:37:24of main plot right so I've got I've got
0:37:29some things to speak of positively iíve
0:37:31actually i'm slightly cheating i have a
0:37:33children's book a a non jon renau novel
0:37:38and a graphic novel that I'll mention in
0:37:40turn the children's book is The Iron
0:37:43Giant based on the iron man i love this
0:37:48movie and you know at some point movie
0:37:50had some point we could even when we
0:37:52talk about children's movies which I
0:37:53think we're going to do I can I could
0:37:55rhapsodize about it more but i love the
0:37:56movie I think it's a great movie
0:37:58it's brad bird before he went to Pixar
0:38:01and made the incredibles and ratatouille
0:38:02he made the Iron Giant and it sort of
0:38:04sticked at the box office but gosh it's
0:38:06a great movie and and based on a you
0:38:10know some source material that's a
0:38:11little bit different but a beloved
0:38:13children's book called the Ironman and
0:38:16so iron giant i think is a great example
0:38:19of again you've got a you've got a book
0:38:22with illustrations and a story but it's
0:38:24not a particular you know it's not a
0:38:25children's novel and then it's expanded
0:38:29on and and made into this great movie
0:38:33I got ya i'm actually just getting
0:38:35goosebumps when you're talking about
0:38:36just because I'm remembering the movie
0:38:37is such a great movie today and
0:38:39especially the you know the the climax
0:38:43in the end of that room gets a little
0:38:44dusty at the end of that movie so it is
0:38:46it is a little eyes get along bad
0:38:48yes oh yeah it's it's well done though
0:38:50it's a very good movie i only saw it I i
0:38:52first saw the movie just a few years ago
0:38:55I mean it came out when the nineties
0:38:57it's literally old i think i was a
0:39:00teenager or something when it came out
0:39:01but I'm i saw just a few years ago and
0:39:04really I just really adored it's great
0:39:07movie and it features the the vocal
0:39:10stylings of hair country
0:39:12yeah generate jennifer aniston and
0:39:14commentaries elad the iron giant beast
0:39:17was the iron giant that's right a role
0:39:19he was our-our 1999 that that film came
0:39:23out another one that i love and we
0:39:26talked about this earlier when I grabbed
0:39:28Dan high-fidelity unicorn be one of my
0:39:31favorite writers i love this movie to
0:39:34this is actually and and i love the book
0:39:36and they are different but you know that
0:39:38it's hearts in the right place the the
0:39:40characters are strong john cusack is
0:39:42exactly as much of a an idiot who has
0:39:47got a lot to learn about life and about
0:39:49his relationship with other people
0:39:51especially women and just does a great
0:39:54job eh you know i think it's it's a
0:39:57great performance by him great direction
0:39:59by stephen frears of interesting so
0:40:02English director reset the movie into
0:40:04America and then have an English
0:40:05director love that movie I and that's
0:40:08one of those movies that i can watch
0:40:09again and again and and and I just
0:40:12really liked it even though they made a
0:40:13bunch of changes to it it's still really
0:40:15is holds up
0:40:17yeah and-and-and I'd hasn't changed my
0:40:19feelings about the book the book is
0:40:20great the movies great they're a little
0:40:22different
0:40:22they're both great and for the in the
0:40:26graphic novel category i mentioned watch
0:40:30men being a bit of a failure I'm going
0:40:34to turn it around with another alan
0:40:35moore selection which is V for Vendetta
0:40:37which I really love it hits hits me just
0:40:43write it i really like that movie
0:40:46I interesting affecting has some
0:40:49interesting things to say I think about
0:40:51politics without being too preachy I
0:40:54actually think that you can view it in a
0:40:55bunch of different ways and I think it
0:40:57makes them interesting statements about
0:40:59totality arianism ended yet it's got a
0:41:011984 kind of vibe and a lot of nods to
0:41:051984 it right down to the fact that John
0:41:07Hurt is in it who was in the movie 1984
0:41:10and I've got the graphic novel and the
0:41:14graphic novel is good but i think they
0:41:18did a good job and in in translating it
0:41:20and and you know it it's easy to mess
0:41:25something like this up as watch Ben I
0:41:27think showed and I don't think they did
0:41:29with the fervent vendetta in fact if you
0:41:31view this it was directed by james
0:41:32McTeague but it was produced by the wash
0:41:34house keys and if you view this through
0:41:36the lens of how how bad the matrix
0:41:39sequels were what-what-what matrix
0:41:41sequels if you view anything through
0:41:44that lens looks better
0:41:45that's that's true i think we should
0:41:49talk about bad movies
0:41:51let's get negative that's all i can
0:41:53think about who's all right I'll aalam
0:41:56i'm going to start and say that one of
0:41:58the mood one of the books that i
0:42:00actually have always enjoyed and was one
0:42:02of my favorite books when I was a
0:42:03teenager is arthur c Clark's sequel to
0:42:07his novel 2001 called 2010 and I really
0:42:12liked that book it's got a lot of
0:42:13interesting stuff in it some interesting
0:42:15characters some interesting stuff
0:42:16happens and then they made the movie and
0:42:18it's not just the peter hyams is no
0:42:21Stanley Kubrick but that movie is is bad
0:42:26it's bad in lots of ways it takes some
0:42:29liberties when it shouldn't and then is
0:42:32devoted to the story in ways that it
0:42:34shouldn't be and omits the best scene
0:42:38which kills me
0:42:39probably for budgetary reasons the best
0:42:42scene the scene that sticks with me more
0:42:44than any other the scene that gave me
0:42:45chills when I read when I reread it on
0:42:49new year's eve 2010 I i spent a couple
0:42:54hours and i reread some of the novel and
0:42:58I didn't they just didn't
0:42:59they took it all out they didn't even
0:43:01try to film it or even mention it they
0:43:02just took it all out butchered bad movie
0:43:05enjoyable book think it's a bad
0:43:08reputation sequels the other sequels
0:43:11aren't as good but i really enjoyed that
0:43:13book i think it was interesting to have
0:43:14arthur c clarke kind of reclaim his part
0:43:16of the story separate from the movie but
0:43:20then they made a movie and a big mistake
0:43:22and bad movie and it came out within a
0:43:24couple weeks of dune by the way at one
0:43:26point they were both playing
0:43:27side-by-side in my local local adduplex
0:43:30movie house in the small town that I
0:43:33grew up in I I you you remind me this by
0:43:38mentioning Eleanor and alan moore of
0:43:40course you famously does not want his
0:43:43name on any movie that is made out of
0:43:45his his comic books but i will say keep
0:43:46the league of extraordinary gentlemen
0:43:49it's a pretty good comic book on a
0:43:50narrowboat movie that is one of the one
0:43:54of the worst movies i may have ever seen
0:43:56in a movie theater and again not for
0:44:01lack mean not for lack of trying in some
0:44:03ways I mean I do love to have a special
0:44:05place in my heart for Sean Connery and
0:44:07yet he does not that is not a good
0:44:10revision in any way shape or form and
0:44:13Alan Moore's is right to have taken his
0:44:16name off of them
0:44:17Scott can you be negative now I can be
0:44:21negative so I i have to preface this by
0:44:23saying that uh when I was younger I
0:44:27would follow I still do this I fall into
0:44:29certain moods and i obsessively read
0:44:33certain authors or genres and so at some
0:44:36point i came across one of l ron
0:44:38Hubbard's
0:44:40he wants fiction writer before he was a
0:44:43founder of a religion and I get your but
0:44:47you're not going to believe this is
0:44:48scott but before I was deciding whether
0:44:50i wanted to mention battlefield earth or
0:44:52let you go
0:44:53ah really serious i wrote it down
0:44:56battlecruiser is a battlefield earth is
0:44:58going exactly the book it's i read the
0:45:01book and I mean it's not a great piece
0:45:02of literature but I'll ron Hubbard is
0:45:05not a great writer but he's a pulp you
0:45:07know a pulp sci-fi writer so his books
0:45:09are fun
0:45:10I'm i Dianetics in those books are a
0:45:13different kind of literature so
0:45:17battlefield earth as a book is a fun
0:45:18book it's really long and then you get
0:45:21John Travolta who is a devout
0:45:24Scientologist who wants to bring you
0:45:27know l ron Hubbard's masterpiece to the
0:45:30through the screen right and and
0:45:32speaking of slavish devotion to the book
0:45:34right
0:45:35he just films this i think it was 16
0:45:38hours long movie that is just awful only
0:45:42seemed like it was that like that that I
0:45:43tried to watch that movie in and just to
0:45:47make fun of it with friends cars we end
0:45:50usually that goes pretty well we
0:45:52couldn't get through like however it was
0:45:54so terrible that movie is so bad you
0:45:56can't even make promises i watch the
0:45:58whole thing
0:45:58no you know so bad it's funny this is so
0:46:00bad it's funny that you haven't murdered
0:46:02yourself exactly i would be bad i would
0:46:08not recommend that he would watch
0:46:09battlefield
0:46:10yeah no don't don't just hit you might
0:46:13say to yourself well get the rifftrax
0:46:14and about no no don't it's not worth it
0:46:17read the book the book isn't all that
0:46:19great but it's much better than the
0:46:20movie
0:46:21well he wasn't you know he was a pulp
0:46:22sci-fi writer before he was a founder of
0:46:25a religion and and its trip that you can
0:46:28he could do fun stuff
0:46:29yeah i mean i read a lot of his books he
0:46:31wrote a ten-part series mission earth
0:46:34which I read which is a lot of fun i
0:46:36hope John Travolta does not make any
0:46:38mission of movies i would i would i
0:46:41would like to see somebody going in the
0:46:42other direction start religion and then
0:46:45become a pulp science fiction author you
0:46:47know if Jesus is written top science
0:46:49fiction for example might have very
0:46:51different out he went under the sun
0:46:53under the pen-name ass land oh wait a
0:46:57second I see what you did there come
0:47:00back
0:47:02that may be the worst movie ever made by
0:47:04anyone in the United I don't know if
0:47:07they made it all the way down the bottom
0:47:09of the AMD bottom 100 but I about pretty
0:47:11sure it's in there
0:47:12I'm just trying to think of other
0:47:13terrible movies made throughout history
0:47:14and and imagining if they were novel
0:47:16sprite it's like the guy the guy who
0:47:18wrote geely not always ago they messed
0:47:20up my book and read everything through
0:47:22and my book the guy who wrote the novel
0:47:25from Justin to Kelly he must be furious
0:47:27when they made that well that's my
0:47:29allergy or didn't want his name on that
0:47:31movie because there's a great comic book
0:47:34now I mean well yeah but they took out
0:47:37the swamp thing entirely when they
0:47:38remade this from Justin to Kelly it's a
0:47:40shame it did it
0:47:42yeah I believe Justin he was the floor
0:47:45onic man in the original comic think
0:47:48that I think that's right yes starship
0:47:50troopers is also another movie that I
0:47:53think not out clearly not as bad
0:47:56battlefield earth i know i like that
0:47:57movie I I don't have to analyze and my
0:48:00starship troopers it's it's interesting
0:48:03though because in some ways it has a
0:48:05very antithetical I think point compared
0:48:08to the book like there's a movie that
0:48:10was made that has a you know kind of the
0:48:13almost the opposite
0:48:15yes I don't think that looking i think
0:48:16it's i think it's just morally I think
0:48:18it's more of a satire and ave potatoes
0:48:21au gratin potatoes so far in the
0:48:23direction like it takes an earnest
0:48:26message and does it even more earnestly
0:48:29to the point you're like okay no one can
0:48:31be this earnest this must be a sad time
0:48:32right so right but i think i like to
0:48:34think that I'm yeah I think that's the
0:48:36point right exactly i mean like
0:48:37highlands very serious about what he was
0:48:39what he was talking about in terms of
0:48:40you know the military whereas the you
0:48:42know clearly the movie I mean get no
0:48:44farther than dressing up Neil Patrick
0:48:46Harris not basically a Nazi help like
0:48:49not all right you're making a point here
0:48:50yeah its memory is it's not a terrible
0:48:55movie and someone's going to great movie
0:48:57i like it because i like it because
0:48:58Jughead to watch that movie think it's
0:49:01about how awesome the army if that's a
0:49:02favorite thing for me about that
0:49:03propagates it's a satire that most
0:49:05people don't view as a sad
0:49:06that's the most successful kind because
0:49:08you'll see tons of people like starship
0:49:09troopers is awesome man with those bugs
0:49:11and shoot them
0:49:12that's what the majority of the public i
0:49:14feel thinks about when they see starship
0:49:16troopers and i just missed the entire
0:49:17rest of it
0:49:18one that i wanted to mention the golden
0:49:21compass anyone read that I'm not
0:49:24available feel successful a movie that
0:49:27they didn't go on and make the other
0:49:28that movie was awful and the book is
0:49:31delightful
0:49:32I've heard I've heard that those those
0:49:33books are actually very good and I've
0:49:35been meaning to read those books I I
0:49:37think they're they're deeply deeply
0:49:39flawed and and i think that the the
0:49:41first book there there's some great
0:49:43stuff in there but I that first book is
0:49:46really problematic and I think they got
0:49:49the movie wasn't any good either
0:49:50although it did have giant armored polar
0:49:52bears fighting at one point which if
0:49:54there's anything redeeming in that in
0:49:55that movie it was that true about the
0:49:58books like SuperDuper anti-religion
0:50:00that's why the movies were no good if
0:50:02that's the case because you can make a
0:50:03movie that sense of religion because no
0:50:04one will go see it but apparently you
0:50:06can make a series of fantasy books and
0:50:08while auntie organized religion and
0:50:10people buy them yeah there's a lot of
0:50:14stuff in that movie in those books that
0:50:15is this kind of I mean I you know I
0:50:17won't say that it wasn't successful
0:50:19because it didn't sell but because
0:50:21there's up there's a problem with the
0:50:22plot and character isn't he an issue
0:50:23okay so it's not it's not necessarily
0:50:25that it's preachy about what it's pretty
0:50:27well I think it's poorly i think it's
0:50:28poorly written in some ways there's
0:50:29there's some stuff that's not you know
0:50:31it's just there are some stuff in there
0:50:33in those books that is is quite sloppy
0:50:35from a writing perspective in my opinion
0:50:37Scott did you like the books i did like
0:50:39the books I i don't recall anything that
0:50:41happened didn't but when i was on home i
0:50:44did enjoy them actually just a hypnotic
0:50:47suggestion that you will feel refreshed
0:50:49and enjoy the enjoyed the books accepted
0:50:52no actual plot no plot and I I the
0:50:57movies was awful
0:50:58the book was not all
0:51:02alright there's a lot of that there is
0:51:03that there are more bad applications
0:51:05than good adaptations for I think screen
0:51:08there more but they're more bad movies
0:51:10then there are good movies i think two
0:51:11is anyone seen screamers there's a bad
0:51:15movie based on and philip k dick short
0:51:18story
0:51:20philip k dick is really a and I have a
0:51:23rifle through every single thing he's
0:51:24written now and turn it into a movie i
0:51:26think with with varying degrees of
0:51:27success
0:51:28yes right blade runner one ball total
0:51:33recall you
0:51:34Blade Runner is a good example of of
0:51:36taking taking a book are novel and then
0:51:40making a movie that has the same title
0:51:41but had never entitled call you don't
0:51:45mean that we wanted android your
0:51:47electrical work if that but you know to
0:51:49me it's it's based on a novel but has so
0:51:52little to do with it that so level and
0:51:54that book are so far apart in tone and
0:51:57message in plot in characters and
0:52:00everything is just like I guess you were
0:52:02inspired by the everybody only dick the
0:52:06total total recall is interesting
0:52:08because there was this there is the
0:52:11novella that turned into the movie and
0:52:14then the movie had a tie-in novel
0:52:16novelization of course and also have
0:52:19that by piers anthony oh so from philip
0:52:23k dick you go all the way back and rest
0:52:25adjusting it to me you know that is that
0:52:27is it secure
0:52:30you know so before we go I wanted to
0:52:32mention a novelization speaking
0:52:36novelizations that that I loved when I
0:52:38was a teenager that was just a movie
0:52:41novelization so going back the other
0:52:42direction which is one of my favorite
0:52:45movies and Star Trek to and i bought the
0:52:47novelization of that which is by vonda
0:52:49mcintyre who's won the hugo awards and
0:52:51there's a very good writer and I I
0:52:54probably if I went back and read it now
0:52:56I'd be deeply disappointed but I read
0:52:57that thing like two or three times and
0:52:59it was a really good book largely
0:53:01because she expanded the screenplay into
0:53:05a novel's worth of of stuff it's sort of
0:53:08the reverse of what we were saying about
0:53:09harry potter where you have to throw a
0:53:11bunch of stuff out she's sort of you
0:53:13know in star trek to when they go down
0:53:14to the the
0:53:15the space station that's orbiting around
0:53:17the asteroid they find all the dead
0:53:19bodies hanging in there and it's sort of
0:53:22like oh those guys who were in that one
0:53:23scene earlier in the background now
0:53:25they're dead
0:53:26well whatever and in the novel they're
0:53:28like all of these scenes with these
0:53:29characters and their the scientists
0:53:30they're trying to figure out this
0:53:31problem and then they're running and
0:53:33they're trying to escape from con before
0:53:34he kills them all and they get ma died
0:53:36and they're coming up and it's very sad
0:53:38and so every now and then I I you know
0:53:41at least when I was a when I was younger
0:53:43readers movie novelizations and most of
0:53:45them were very bad but that was pretty
0:53:47good and I've got on my bookshelf here
0:53:49but still haven't read it
0:53:50the out-of-print abyss novelization
0:53:53which is by orson scott card which is
0:53:55actually supposed to be not actually
0:53:56supposed to be not bad but strange and
0:53:59and I and I believe long out-of-print
0:54:02which ice
0:54:03I may be the only person in the world to
0:54:05own a copy of the novelization of Hudson
0:54:09Hawk which was given to me by an
0:54:13ex-girlfriend who worked in a bookstore
0:54:14because she found it one day and onto
0:54:16that was book section that i have not I
0:54:18have not cracked it open but it the idea
0:54:20that they novelized that music to be
0:54:22like who is the audience but because it
0:54:25only liked it you know I wanted a few
0:54:26people like the movie
0:54:27most people didn't like the movie and it
0:54:29seems unlikely with novelizations
0:54:31fascinating Marco they thought people
0:54:32would like it right you gotta be you
0:54:33gotta say this is gonna be a hit we're
0:54:35gonna have a novelization out there you
0:54:37can change novel is it novelizations
0:54:39fascinate me because they say look we
0:54:42think you're unlikely to watch the movie
0:54:44or something or you either you enjoyed
0:54:47the movie or we think you're unlikely to
0:54:48watch it but like what person says yeah
0:54:50you know what I don't really like that
0:54:51will be all wait for the book right
0:54:54I don't think that's a big slice like
0:54:56it's your various people are waiting for
0:54:57the related by the movie and you want to
0:55:00read the book because the movie was so
0:55:02great you want to read the book at him
0:55:04like usual a 210 mostly one more about
0:55:06their especially when they adapt books
0:55:09and then novel eyes them again because
0:55:10clearly the people who are considered
0:55:12themselves too snooty 22 oh yeah that
0:55:14was a much better book aren't gonna read
0:55:16a novelization yeah what do I think
0:55:19you're the first people I've ever met
0:55:20who bought novelizations and rhythm
0:55:22always wanted to buys these things
0:55:23novelizations movies there anybody out
0:55:25there looking for these but here we have
0:55:26two people who willingly for
0:55:28you got novelizations of movies i didn't
0:55:30buy one it was given mine was given i
0:55:32can't remember the last time i did it
0:55:34but when i was when i was a kid in a
0:55:36huge Star Trek fan and i would buy any
0:55:39Star Trek book that i could get my hands
0:55:40on and then you know they came out with
0:55:42a novelization of these books and now
0:55:44that one I are in particular I remember
0:55:46because it was by an actually you know a
0:55:49good novelist and and she did a i think
0:55:52a pretty good job and and that there are
0:55:54some other some other really good
0:55:55writers who have done novelizations of
0:55:57didn't Greg bear it great where does a
0:56:01halo I think he did
0:56:03hello yeah there's some strange so the
0:56:06video game novelizations is also a
0:56:07really big really big thing that you but
0:56:09I was gonna say i have all the I do
0:56:11actually have all the novelization of
0:56:12the Star Wars trilogy right which are
0:56:15odd and then the splitter in my mind's
0:56:18eye which is like in the nether regional
0:56:20which was written by the same guy who
0:56:21goes fairly lost star wars
0:56:23yeah the star wars novelization the
0:56:25Stars the opposition is notable for me
0:56:27in that it actually contains a reference
0:56:29like obi-wan Kenobi talks about ducks
0:56:31which may or may not exist in the star
0:56:35wars universe it's unclear got arrested
0:56:38somehow you know exchange and that was
0:56:40by George Lucas right window
0:56:43hi George look it was by alan dean
0:56:45foster goes right but the first one is
0:56:47actually credited to George Lucas what
0:56:49it is literally just behind a return of
0:56:51the jedi yeah i think they later on
0:56:54changing minor reprints of it they took
0:56:57off
0:56:58they took off Lucas's name is khan you
0:57:00know it's not just not Jimmy combi ask
0:57:02the the axon like misspelling wrath of
0:57:05ahs what is this Darth Vader guy the
0:57:09wrath of james caan I've got a book
0:57:12about a movie i would watch the rap of
0:57:16james caan by the way i would read the
0:57:19novelization of the wrath of change come
0:57:21in misery also another I think movie
0:57:23that did a good job of translating from
0:57:25a book to movie
0:57:26speaking of James Caan and and
0:57:29even King another one of Stephen King
0:57:30shorter books only about an inch thick
0:57:33maybe less
0:57:34are there are there books that you feel
0:57:36should or need to be made it clear that
0:57:39you would like to see as a movie I'd
0:57:41like to see The Dark Tower is a
0:57:43miniseries and luckily i'm gonna always
0:57:44going to get that chance to tell me
0:57:46you're gonna get a movie and then a TV
0:57:47series and then another movie iron that
0:57:49I movie series i would like the dark
0:57:51tower to get the Lord of the Rings type
0:57:53treatment and it won't fit in the series
0:57:56of movies so i guess they have to do
0:57:57some of the forms of they're gonna do it
0:57:58as a miniseries and and and a bunch of
0:58:00movies then give it a try i hope it
0:58:03doesn't come out like the standard
0:58:04miniseries which was a total disaster
0:58:07so I've got my fingers crossed for a
0:58:08dark tower they're making two other good
0:58:12neil gaiman works into into adaptations
0:58:15the Good Omens and the american gods are
0:58:17both being turned into I think
0:58:19miniseries I'm both which are excellent
0:58:22books see I'm looking forward to that
0:58:24and i would say I this actually came
0:58:27recently a cousin of my cousin's email
0:58:29me to say her husband was a huge film
0:58:31buff was talking to this guy who is who
0:58:33had made a fairly well-known movie and
0:58:36said this guy is looking for you know
0:58:38his next sort of project and looking
0:58:40something to adapt into a movie and so
0:58:42she was asking us for suggestions and
0:58:44one of the ones i came up with which is
0:58:46a series of books that I mean for a
0:58:48while by any mike carey who's a fairly
0:58:51well-known comic book writer has also
0:58:52written this series of novels about a
0:58:56their kind of a new war supernatural
0:58:59story and when they're about a guy who's
0:59:00an exorcist but he's very much in the
0:59:02mold of your sort of classic noir
0:59:04detective and I think those the they're
0:59:07called the Felix caster series and I
0:59:09think those would make very interesting
0:59:11either sort of seemed like a bad picture
0:59:13them is like a BBC series type thing
0:59:16with you know six episodes per season or
0:59:18something like that but it would be I
0:59:20would be really interested to see how
0:59:21they would adapt those um I think I
0:59:24think of the sci-fi novels of jack
0:59:26mcdevitt are all sort of widescreen
0:59:29sci-fi you know big big idea kind of a
0:59:33rollicking space adventures and I i'm
0:59:36surprised that one of those hasn't made
0:59:37it into a a big-budget sci-fi movie
0:59:40because the kind of mystery action
0:59:42you know spaceships flying around kind
0:59:45of stuff so I'm a little surprised but I
0:59:48would also go with you Dan
0:59:50I'd love to slam by nick hornby as a as
0:59:53a movie while Tony Hawk can still be
0:59:56himself as the as the appearance of the
0:59:59good
0:59:59good
1:00:00post or astral projection or something
1:00:02of tony hawk as at leaving makeup looks
1:00:06really good yeah that would make an
1:00:08excellent movie series i don't know how
1:00:11you do it means miniseries now I think
1:00:12that would be a public thing you make
1:00:13that what that could work as a movie i
1:00:15think the miniseries it's unfortunate
1:00:16the main series gets a pretty bad rap in
1:00:18the US for the most part except for HBO
1:00:20communications like HBO basically was
1:00:22going to put the money into it but i'm
1:00:24slammed with work and it is genre in the
1:00:27sense that there's like an alternate
1:00:28there's like it also is a sliding doors
1:00:30kind of thing where there's like an
1:00:31alternate reality that he visits or
1:00:33something and then he comes back to the
1:00:35one reality and tony hawk is his spirit
1:00:37guide them it's funny it's good as i
1:00:40mentioned i whatever I get obsessed with
1:00:42particular author so as I was a kid I
1:00:44was obsessed with Isaac as well and i
1:00:47read the Foundation series which
1:00:50probably is better in my mom and my
1:00:52memory than actually in reality but i
1:00:54would be interested in some way that I
1:00:56mean I would tap that i don't know i had
1:00:59developed god I mean we didn't know we
1:01:01mentioned i robot which is a terrible at
1:01:03it yeah well it's not even an adaptation
1:01:05really know although is everything a
1:01:07resident listen
1:01:09yeah Allison screenplay which is very
1:01:10good very very good if you if you are
1:01:13and get a chance to read it it's it was
1:01:15published as a book
1:01:16yeah harlan ellison's irobot screenplay
1:01:20he did a great job at trying to bring
1:01:22all that together and and it's a you
1:01:24know it's sort of a shame that never got
1:01:26made because it's way better like this
1:01:27will smith movie photos my really like I
1:01:31really liked is that his mystery series
1:01:33sci-fi mystery series the caves of steel
1:01:34the as mouth ones but there's a trail
1:01:37right i think i read four books that
1:01:39that tie in with foundation later on but
1:01:41I reliable those are kind of fun sort of
1:01:43pop boilers right about a rendezvous
1:01:47with rama which apparently will never
1:01:50actually be made into a movie but they
1:01:52keep trying to make it into a movie they
1:01:54keep trying now I think cgi the
1:01:56advancements of special-effects has
1:01:58really made some of these unfilmable
1:01:59sci-fi movies filmed yet but and you
1:02:01know we saw with Lord of the Rings and
1:02:03and it goes from there I i'm skeptical
1:02:05ironical reforma could be ok but they
1:02:07probably you know make it as you know
1:02:11actually possible but really it's like
1:02:12people in a big too
1:02:13taking a scary elevator is sort of what
1:02:15that movie will screw it up but it's
1:02:17just fascinating because it's been in
1:02:18development hell for so long that you
1:02:20like and how you're the point where i
1:02:21can't possibly be good but you just want
1:02:23to see it get film just finally make it
1:02:24so we can all get mad at it move on
1:02:27yeah I'm interested to see they are
1:02:30supposedly may also making a movie of
1:02:32john scalzi these old man's war the old
1:02:35man's war wolfgang petersen i think is
1:02:38making it which is an interesting note
1:02:41that the skull see thing I you know
1:02:43those are good books that whole series
1:02:45is really good and I can see how that
1:02:47could be a pretty cool pretty cool movie
1:02:49because again you got action you've got
1:02:50the whole kind of war backdrop and
1:02:52you've got some interesting character
1:02:53stories about these old people who
1:02:55become young people so that deadly
1:02:58threat cocoon but with guns yeah with
1:03:00the end big blue super strong soldier
1:03:04people and aliens and guns yeah it's
1:03:07great it's great it's a conspiratorial
1:03:09meets cocoon that's how you pick uh
1:03:11that's why they're making it i think
1:03:13it's because somebody said hey remember
1:03:15that cocoon not amici wilford brimley
1:03:20could do that with guns
1:03:21that's right yeah actually if you just
1:03:24given them all guns in that movie I
1:03:26might have watched that you know the
1:03:28best
1:03:28speaking of movies made it our books
1:03:30into movies the firm
1:03:32I you know I'm not going to say anything
1:03:33positive about the movie or the book
1:03:35other than to say that in the firm
1:03:36wilford brimley is kicked to death by
1:03:38Tom Cruise kicked to death
1:03:42it's the right thing to do and it takes
1:03:44you way to do it is just up and on that
1:03:48note thank you everybody for joining me
1:03:50on this on this exciting podcast about
1:03:53movies and books and how they hate each
1:03:55other must fight to the death or
1:03:56something like that
1:03:58Scott McNulty thank you thank you i
1:04:00think the the book was better than this
1:04:02pocket
1:04:03alright John siracusa thank you thank
1:04:05you Jason had more'n thank you for
1:04:07bringing your deep knowledge of Hudson
1:04:11Hawk novel say thank you Jason thanks
1:04:13for listening to
1:04:14upper bowl you are you impressed us with
1:04:17your 42 stick until next time goodnight
1:04:21[Music]
1:04:26and on that note i'm kicking to death at
1:04:29wilford brimley in the firm based on the
1:04:32fine John Grisham novel i have the same
1:04:34area the novelization not the actual
1:04:36novel you read the novelization
1:04:38excellent access by will forever haunt
1:04:41ya
1:04:42Oh audiofly were fairly and in the novel
1:04:47with the wilford brimley character he
1:04:50kicks the Tom Cruise current you did not
1:04:52yeah there's a little uh they change it
1:04:56up like a continuity error strange very
1:04:59strange the novelization of the
1:05:02audiobook of the novelization of the
1:05:03movie of the novel fire was excellent i
1:05:07I'm actually not planning on listening
1:05:09to this podcast instant-read
1:05:11novelization actually that would be
1:05:12great i'd love to see a novelization of
1:05:14this podcast oh you warded that oil for
1:05:17this one night last week there's no plot
1:05:19where it went well there's that there's
1:05:21a hole through line about about Scott
1:05:24and the Scientologists true and when
1:05:26when parents Anthony writes it it'll
1:05:29just leap up it's like he's actually the
1:05:32more like the davinci cojiro peers and
1:05:35he's going to mobilize the entire series
1:05:37of podcast episodes we've done and the
1:05:39first one will be really good and then
1:05:40after that it's just gonna be the same
1:05:41one over and over again podcast get the
1:05:44audiobook of the podcast that's the best
1:05:45one the audiobook of the pot
1:05:46novelization of the podcast that
1:05:48dramatic reading of the incomparable
1:05:51podcast who would be our reader Stephen
1:05:54Freeman who I like that nipsey Russell