The Incomparable

34: The Wrath of James Caan

 

  the incomparable part test 234 april [TS]

  we are back on the incomparable i am [TS]

  jason l your host our topic today is [TS]

  from page to screen we're going to talk [TS]

  about books being made into movies or TV [TS]

  shows the good examples if there are [TS]

  such things [TS]

  the terrible examples there are plenty [TS]

  of those and joining me today to discuss [TS]

  this we have Dan Morgan hi Dan jason [TS]

  scott McNulty hello hello and John [TS]

  siracusa good evening good evening [TS]

  so this was a good idea brought up [TS]

  actually by Scott McNulty so full credit [TS]

  to him with the game of thrones having [TS]

  just premiered on HBO TV series based on [TS]

  a series of novels by george RR martin [TS]

  and we're going to talk about that [TS]

  series probably a couple of times in the [TS]

  next couple of months but that's not [TS]

  really as much the topic of tonight's [TS]

  incomparable as it is a jumping-off [TS]

  point now many of us I think have read [TS]

  the novel game of thrones and i think [TS]

  it's interesting that even after one [TS]

  episode if you've seen it it's a very [TS]

  faithful retailing and actually i didn't [TS]

  get the heebie-jeebies from it like I i [TS]

  have with some other adaptations as [TS]

  anybody else just really quickly as [TS]

  anybody else seen the first episode of [TS]

  Game of Thrones haven't actually watched [TS]

  you guys suck okay i don't watch it John [TS]

  watched him i didn't have read the books [TS]

  though so I'm coming into it ah [TS]

  interesting though I read the books and [TS]

  I watched oh yeah what [TS]

  so what did you think did it do the same [TS]

  faithful to faithful not faithful enough [TS]

  I i did not get any heebie-jeebies good [TS]

  just kind of you and me behind that I [TS]

  thought was pretty faithful i mean i [TS]

  read the books [TS]

  long long ago but it's it reminded me of [TS]

  what was happening in the book so that [TS]

  seems good [TS]

  I mean it with what it's an HBO series [TS]

  so I think that kind of front-loaded [TS]

  some more sex than was perhaps in the [TS]

  first the beginning of the books to get [TS]

  people interested in the fantasy show [TS]

  but other than that yeah you know I [TS]

  think I think it was faithful I I think [TS]

  there's a lot of downloading to be done [TS]

  there [TS]

  about this world and i can understand [TS]

  that would be kind of hard to get it all [TS]

  I mean John you you haven't read the [TS]

  book but you watched it was it didn't [TS]

  seem like you could you could follow it [TS]

  or was it sort of like wow without a map [TS]

  i have no idea what's going on here [TS]

  it was okay for our first episode III [TS]

  didn't feel like it was racing away from [TS]

  my understanding i was but they didn't [TS]

  spend too much time dwelling on things [TS]

  but they spent enough time that you [TS]

  understood the players were and and you [TS]

  know how the pieces are arranged on the [TS]

  board sort of so i think it struck a [TS]

  good balance in terms of exposition and [TS]

  and drama [TS]

  yeah I will worry bicep I season three [TS]

  or four lost Rajas too many characters I [TS]

  i think that i would be worried normally [TS]

  about about something like that having [TS]

  read the book I'd watch that first step [TS]

  of soda say wow this is dense are people [TS]

  going to get this but you know it's no [TS]

  more dense than the wire [TS]

  really yeah i mean there's there's [TS]

  plenty of TV shows that are out there [TS]

  and HBO is obviously a great example of [TS]

  org or something like madmen for example [TS]

  is just like where there's a lot of [TS]

  players but people are people are pretty [TS]

  good at keeping those things straight [TS]

  especially if they do as they appear to [TS]

  have done here such a good job with [TS]

  casting to the point of you know really [TS]

  finding people who look like these [TS]

  characters and are different enough so [TS]

  it doesn't look like it and Martin's [TS]

  books have a wide enough range of [TS]

  characters that it's not like oh it's [TS]

  another guy that I can't tell from any [TS]

  of the other guys so in talking about [TS]

  adaptations let's let's start with once [TS]

  we think that are good and to to talk [TS]

  about that i'm going to go to answer [TS]

  because I think of nobody who is more [TS]

  positive and and trying to illuminate [TS]

  what's good in the world than john john [TS]

  g houses some suggestions for good [TS]

  adaptations i do I thought working some [TS]

  negative stuff too because my good self [TS]

  my first one is dune and this is a movie [TS]

  that wasn't from the eighties yes and I [TS]

  was long ago actually that was five I [TS]

  believe yeah it was David Lynch was very [TS]

  short very strange director who has a [TS]

  lot of character released within a [TS]

  couple weeks of one of the ones i'm [TS]

  going to talk about [TS]

  strangely enough anyway and your image [TS]

  and sting [TS]

  yes yes so and Kyle make sure to [TS]

  I'm not gonna hold up doing as like a a [TS]

  a great movie about this one thing you [TS]

  can say about for doing is that it's [TS]

  interesting there's very little and a [TS]

  movie that is expected or boring even [TS]

  though it is a sci-fi movie so [TS]

  everything about it is kind of weird [TS]

  like it should be in a David Lynch movie [TS]

  the character is a weird the [TS]

  performances are weird the casting is [TS]

  weird with that this thing doing there [TS]

  the set design everything about it is [TS]

  weird now if you compare it to the book [TS]

  i know a lot of people really love the [TS]

  doing book but I didn't dislike I guess [TS]

  I kind of did dislike the notebook is it [TS]

  i just don't like Frank Herbert is a [TS]

  writer I just think he's boring and the [TS]

  book he was so wrapped up talk about [TS]

  planting intriguing idea that's our own [TS]

  there i think that's unfair because [TS]

  after the first 250 pages dude picks up [TS]

  oh oh oh no you're right it'sit's really [TS]

  boring and then there's some action but [TS]

  but seriously i looked and it was it's [TS]

  about 250 pages of just death before you [TS]

  get there [TS]

  yeah and the thing about it is he's got [TS]

  this very interesting world but [TS]

  obviously david lynch didn't make up the [TS]

  source material so that the world that [TS]

  Frank Harper made up and doing is very [TS]

  interesting and has lots of cool things [TS]

  in it [TS]

  none of which he describes because he's [TS]

  more interested in describing the sort [TS]

  of political intrigue and he is [TS]

  describing any of the very interesting [TS]

  aspects of the society or technology i [TS]

  which is why when David Lynch made the [TS]

  movie he could make the characters the [TS]

  settings the vehicles look like whatever [TS]

  the heck he wanted other than the fact [TS]

  that sandwich was probably look like [TS]

  worms everything else was up for grabs [TS]

  so he said fine you're not going to [TS]

  describe anything your book i'm going to [TS]

  make the ship's look like gigantic art [TS]

  deco you know bed headboards or [TS]

  something flying through the air and i'm [TS]

  going to make the navigators look like [TS]

  giant floating slug things and you know [TS]

  he did just whatever that he wanted i [TS]

  think that that freedom of frank herbert [TS]

  not describing anything and not really [TS]

  being a writer's writer and david lynch [TS]

  being absolutely crazy and a director's [TS]

  director produced this wonderful strange [TS]

  movie that i think is better than the [TS]

  book and most of the ways that movie can [TS]

  be better than the book I mean obviously [TS]

  doesn't really hold together as a movie [TS]

  and it's kind of nonsensical and then it [TS]

  deviates from the book in many important [TS]

  ways in terms of you know that the world [TS]

  and then and that the magic powers in [TS]

  the plot but i but i'm watching I'm like [TS]

  I don't care go ahead David Lynch show [TS]

  me what you've got and I just just get a [TS]

  good vibe out of it home i thought [TS]

  that's one of the best examples of book [TS]

  that was like okay it's alright it's got [TS]

  some crazy things about and frank [TS]

  herbert's kind of a boring writer if you [TS]

  put that kind of booked into the hands [TS]

  of a very yeah talented quirky director [TS]

  you get an interesting movie did you see [TS]

  the sci-fi miniseries of doom [TS]

  unfortunately thanks Harvey I don't know [TS]

  we were going to TV if I had to go [TS]

  things I was doing goes to a movie you [TS]

  get this very interesting movie from [TS]

  david lynch then it goes to TV [TS]

  miniseries and if you're a big fan of [TS]

  the book you're like all finally [TS]

  miniseries I give the room the books [TS]

  room to breathe but you can see again [TS]

  because there's no real descriptions of [TS]

  stuff in the book you can do anything [TS]

  you want and the TV series what they did [TS]

  was made [TS]

  things not very interesting and kind of [TS]

  ugly and the reduction sort of felt like [TS]

  you know of what you'd expect from a [TS]

  sci-fi channel show right it was sort of [TS]

  like the sci-fi channel version of doing [TS]

  which is exactly what it was and it [TS]

  looked like that it felt like that i [TS]

  don't think it was that Latin it [TS]

  it lived in the shadow of the David [TS]

  Lynch 10 because he had such a defining [TS]

  vision of what all this stuff is like I [TS]

  think that maybe was more entertaining [TS]

  but I it certainly didn't attempt to do [TS]

  anything interesting [TS]

  now yeah I don't wanna fight i mean i [TS]

  don't think it was terrible as far as [TS]

  sci-fi series go but it's really didn't [TS]

  stick with me and it took Scott's point [TS]

  the sequel was atrocious [TS]

  so yeah I know source material is [TS]

  atrocious I don't have enough to stop [TS]

  reading the source material for that do [TS]

  not that after reading one Frank Herbert [TS]

  book i was like he had enough of this [TS]

  guy so my second one should i do my [TS]

  second year ago somebody else not go for [TS]

  it [TS]

  ok so my second one this is an easy one [TS]

  but what most people don't think of but [TS]

  i do of course but such a big Stephen [TS]

  King fan is Rita Hayworth and the [TS]

  shawshank redemption and I think this is [TS]

  a perfect example because so many of [TS]

  Stephen King's things have been made [TS]

  into movies and so many of the movies [TS]

  have been so terrible [TS]

  now here's an example that I think [TS]

  pretty much everyone can agree it's a [TS]

  fantastic movie and the reason it's a [TS]

  fantastic movie is a few things one [TS]

  stephen king is an amazing storyteller [TS]

  not an amazing writer but an amazing [TS]

  storyteller and two it's a short story [TS]

  it's not a novel so pretty much [TS]

  everything he put on the page you have [TS]

  room for a 22 and a half hour movie so [TS]

  you get to take this story by a great [TS]

  storyteller and play it out exactly as [TS]

  it is in the book without having to drop [TS]

  anything without having to crazy edits [TS]

  and then the final thing is there's [TS]

  nothing supernatural in this story every [TS]

  time the supernatural stuff in a stephen [TS]

  king book it kind of goes off the rails [TS]

  when they try to fill it because either [TS]

  it's hokey and it only works when you [TS]

  write it but we try to film it looks [TS]

  ridiculous or just they don't know how [TS]

  to film with the right way or it's [TS]

  supposed to be scary it just looks dumb [TS]

  you know it's very difficult to do you [TS]

  know supernatural horror very well in [TS]

  film it's easier to do it in a book [TS]

  where you're writing about it [TS]

  so this this had no supernatural stuff [TS]

  so they just ghosts from a straight [TS]

  story about people with no magic and [TS]

  you know a couple hundred pages and they [TS]

  just put direct the film and give it a [TS]

  good cast in a good director and makes [TS]

  an excellent movie you know another [TS]

  chance to John's point I think he makes [TS]

  a really good point because I thought [TS]

  about this in the past the short stories [TS]

  and movies are actually in some ways a [TS]

  lot I feel like closer in in art form [TS]

  than novels and movies and that's [TS]

  because short stories are so economical [TS]

  there's such a it so there's a unity [TS]

  right of of point like it's very focused [TS]

  it'sit's doesn't have a lot of [TS]

  extraneous tangents you don't usually [TS]

  have like a dude you know tons of [TS]

  characters if there's something very [TS]

  focused about it whereas in a novel you [TS]

  know I feel like in some ways novels are [TS]

  better adapted to things like TV series [TS]

  as you're doing that came two thrones [TS]

  because they give you a little time to [TS]

  delve into the side plots and you know [TS]

  characters with their own things going [TS]

  on there's a little more room to work on [TS]

  something like that then there is to [TS]

  condense into a knot into a movie in [TS]

  which you know it's two hours two and a [TS]

  half hours you've got to take stuff out [TS]

  you gotta throw out an entire train [TS]

  these things that are the takeaway from [TS]

  the main plot of the movie and stuff [TS]

  like that so I think there is something [TS]

  very interesting about adapting a short [TS]

  story to movie as opposed to a novel it [TS]

  really depends on the author to because [TS]

  I mean even though this is a short story [TS]

  it's not like a you know 20 pager like [TS]

  some people short stories it's a Steven [TS]

  articles in nova or whatever button and [TS]

  Stephen King world short as you know 200 [TS]

  pages 250 pages and that's just the [TS]

  right length for a movie i probably [TS]

  can't get away with going doing ten [TS]

  fifteen thirty pager into into a [TS]

  feature-length movie or for most longer [TS]

  short stories from throw authors that [TS]

  tend to produce thousand-page books that [TS]

  perfectly in that [TS]

  and speaking of thousand-page books that [TS]

  is my my final selection here which is [TS]

  Lord of the Rings I you pick me first to [TS]

  get the ticket before everybody else [TS]

  now i'm a big fan of lord of the rings [TS]

  books and for many years everyone you [TS]

  know help Lord of the Rings up this as a [TS]

  series of books they're basically [TS]

  unfilmable because they just they're [TS]

  just too much in them too many settings [TS]

  too much magic stuff too expensive but [TS]

  through the magic of computer technology [TS]

  suddenly the unfilmable became film [TS]

  alone are within our lifetime and they [TS]

  gave it to a director who dedicated his [TS]

  you know many years of his life to it [TS]

  and they got actors who were similarly [TS]

  able to dedicate themselves [TS]

  animated series of movies out of it and [TS]

  they weren't terrible which is quite a [TS]

  feat considering like all the Lord of [TS]

  the Rings fans like all please don't [TS]

  feel miserable just be horrible you'll [TS]

  just be destroying these books I to make [TS]

  them not terrible i think what they had [TS]

  to do is decide you know this is a giant [TS]

  1,500 pages for the text or whatever [TS]

  we're gonna have to pick some part of it [TS]

  to concentrate on the movies and they [TS]

  picked to concentrate on the stuff that [TS]

  works well in the movies big epic quest [TS]

  battles 12 characters that you follow [TS]

  through the whole thing and then [TS]

  everything else got cut [TS]

  Tom Bombadil cut all the whimsical stuff [TS]

  got cut all the you know how about [TS]

  family stuff got cut all you know just [TS]

  just cut mercilessly remove everything [TS]

  that is you know that people love about [TS]

  the books but just does not work in the [TS]

  movie and dedicate themselves fully to [TS]

  the epic quest and sam and frodo and [TS]

  doing the whole story on there are lots [TS]

  of problems with those movies and some [TS]

  of the choices I made [TS]

  I don't really agree with if we ever do [TS]

  a lot of the Rings episode we can talk [TS]

  about them but to their credit i think [TS]

  they made probably the best movie you [TS]

  could have made especially in a first [TS]

  attempt at making movies of these things [TS]

  maybe if I live to be a ripe old age of [TS]

  95 some will try to refill these movies [TS]

  and have a different take and do it [TS]

  better so that those are good movies to [TS]

  the point where my wife said I've never [TS]

  read the book because I everything time [TS]

  you describe it to me I'm terrified and [TS]

  I like the movies so that's good enough [TS]

  i don't need anymore [TS]

  that's enough we have the expanded [TS]

  additions and although this goes to the [TS]

  point that there's more story there it's [TS]

  a long book 2 or series books if you [TS]

  want to be with that way it so they did [TS]

  three movies and in fact there's a tit [TS]

  like a 10-hour cut of the framing tables [TS]

  too and we want we actually do that [TS]

  every every Christmas we sort of do a [TS]

  little Lord of the Rings festival we I [TS]

  think we didn't do last year but but I'm [TS]

  we try to do it every holiday for six [TS]

  nights basically it's a disco night and [TS]

  and you make your own little mini series [TS]

  basically and it's great because those [TS]

  are a really really fun and well well [TS]

  made movies and I got a very different [TS]

  feeling watching the movies and do [TS]

  reading the book so much so that it [TS]

  they're just they're barely related to [TS]

  my mind because when i read the books [TS]

  i'm thinking of like returning to a [TS]

  world and then getting into all that [TS]

  sort of you know [TS]

  folklore and then whimsical stuff or [TS]

  whatever and the movies are much more [TS]

  about an adventure [TS]

  alright everyone more thing before we [TS]

  move on this is just in general love [TS]

  when i was reading a book I guess couple [TS]

  years ago I was thinking about things [TS]

  that you can do in books that you can't [TS]

  do in movies and then it most people [TS]

  don't think about this think about the [TS]

  other way things you can do in movies [TS]

  that can't be done in books because you [TS]

  just got words when you've got pictures [TS]

  you can do so much more [TS]

  so I was reading a deepness in the sky [TS]

  by vernor vinge hope you're doing [TS]

  episode on him eventually you will and [TS]

  about half of that book is spent on this [TS]

  this alien world where the spider aliens [TS]

  are and there are characters there that [TS]

  you follow their just as important as [TS]

  the human characters and these [TS]

  characters have a work life and jobs and [TS]

  and friends and family and romance and [TS]

  as a government and they have you know a [TS]

  society and everything down there and [TS]

  then not the space you've got the humans [TS]

  and it's kind of a split 50-50 between [TS]

  these two things parallel storylines and [TS]

  then later in the book eventually the [TS]

  humans go down onto the planet and they [TS]

  meet these elements of the first times [TS]

  and it's the first time that you get [TS]

  narration from the humans point of view [TS]

  of what they see when they see the [TS]

  aliens and what they see is just like a [TS]

  shiny exoskeleton and like legs [TS]

  everywhere and hissing and clicking and [TS]

  little letting emotions from their [TS]

  eyelids and everything going different [TS]

  directions and at that point the book [TS]

  you realize that the point of view from [TS]

  the spiderlings for the whole rest of [TS]

  the book you're everything was being [TS]

  translated into human terms for you you [TS]

  know they didn't say in it when you when [TS]

  they were describing the spider world [TS]

  that the spider wave it slant na and [TS]

  made this clicking noise around like [TS]

  they just they just played out as if [TS]

  there were humans and it made you relate [TS]

  to them and only when the two things [TS]

  come together do you realize how [TS]

  incredibly alien these things are how [TS]

  different they are from humans even [TS]

  though from the spiders perspective [TS]

  everything is normal from the human [TS]

  perspective that just horrible hideous [TS]

  creatures you know and this is this [TS]

  moment you can't have a moment like this [TS]

  in a movie because either you show the [TS]

  spiders from the very beginning as being [TS]

  hideous spider aliens who don't speak [TS]

  and don't have normal language don't [TS]

  have normal gestures and you know it [TS]

  you've already doing mid smells or wave [TS]

  their tentacles around or whatever and [TS]

  tennis whatever or you show them humans [TS]

  instead of spiders and then when you [TS]

  reveal that there spiders you know then [TS]

  that the audience feels like it was a [TS]

  cheat you know you could try to use some [TS]

  sort of visual device to to say how you [TS]

  know you were showing them as humans to [TS]

  not put you off of them but really [TS]

  they're spiders the whole time and the [TS]

  audience would not like that [TS]

  so this lack of visuals in the book was [TS]

  not going to hide the fact that spiders [TS]

  in the book right from the beginning [TS]

  they said yeah these are spider aliens [TS]

  and they just go on and draw you into [TS]

  the lives of these spider aliens the [TS]

  fact that there's no pictures constantly [TS]

  reminding you that these are spider [TS]

  aliens allows the book to do something [TS]

  you could never do in the movie because [TS]

  it doesn't have any pictures in at home [TS]

  and that one particular scene i was the [TS]

  first time I realized that there was you [TS]

  know something that besides length and [TS]

  you detail and stuff that you can do [TS]

  just because books are so much longer [TS]

  than then the movies that you can do in [TS]

  books you actually can't do movies [TS]

  because they lack pictures and that was [TS]

  my favorite moments of that that book [TS]

  there [TS]

  yeah and I i do think it is unfilmable a [TS]

  good story though [TS]

  yeah i mean that's on film over for [TS]

  other reasons too but but just for that [TS]

  the spider aliens humanity thing just [TS]

  would not work i'm screaming there's no [TS]

  way to pull it off [TS]

  you've got to stop right with that oh no [TS]

  it's not gonna happen [TS]

  dan do you have a recommendation or two [TS]

  of good adaptations i was looking [TS]

  casting my sort of eyes over my [TS]

  bookshelf as I was sitting here trying [TS]

  to think which of these books have been [TS]

  made into movies and and some of them [TS]

  have actually there are several on my [TS]

  bookshelf that are due to be made into [TS]

  movies which I'm interested to see but [TS]

  most of the ones that I'm coming up with [TS]

  are not science fiction or fantasy books [TS]

  but like things like mysteries and [TS]

  another other sort of genre books and [TS]

  and so I feel you know I don't know [TS]

  maybe it's a cheap but a one of my one [TS]

  of my favorite books by one of my [TS]

  favorite authors is the big sleep by [TS]

  raymond chandler which is a fantastic [TS]

  mystery book circa nineteen forties [TS]

  leaving the 39 maybe was written it was [TS]

  made into a movie in 46 with Humphrey [TS]

  Bogart and Lauren Bacall and it's an [TS]

  absolutely fantastic movie of an [TS]

  absolute [TS]

  a fantastic book and i think it's it's [TS]

  hard you'd be hard-pressed to do an [TS]

  adaptation maybe that's something [TS]

  there's something about that that's very [TS]

  much related to the time in which was [TS]

  written or filmed but i feel like you [TS]

  know it would be hard to do a modern [TS]

  adaptation of today or to do it well but [TS]

  there's there's something that's a big [TS]

  challenge I think in many ways because [TS]

  the plot of a of something like a [TS]

  Raymond Chandler mystery well you know [TS]

  mysteries you often often think of them [TS]

  as being related to the plot but I think [TS]

  such a big appeal from Chandler is the [TS]

  language and you know as much as you can [TS]

  translate some of that into dialogue [TS]

  there's so much stuff that doesn't get [TS]

  me doesn't make that jump like John was [TS]

  saying like the you know unless you have [TS]

  a voiceover narration which lends a [TS]

  whole different quality to your movie as [TS]

  you know anybody who's watched three [TS]

  different versions of blade runner [TS]

  wallet asked me if I may have stopped my [TS]

  short story or yeah actually or is that [TS]

  an oval exactly what the ball two novel [TS]

  i read I've read it Irene yes I've as [TS]

  well it seems like a shorter than shot [TS]

  at redemption but I mean something like [TS]

  that in terms of you know it's hard to [TS]

  film something like that relies so much [TS]

  on on the pros right it's hard to do a [TS]

  great translation of that and yet the [TS]

  movie ends up being you know quite [TS]

  gripping in its in its own way and so [TS]

  that's that's one example of something [TS]

  that I that I quite enjoyed I'm trying [TS]

  again I'm coming up with all this stuff [TS]

  I feel like that that i really like that [TS]

  is not did that is sort of out of our [TS]

  DIY I've got an honor and my list too so [TS]

  don't have that so ok so altar and then [TS]

  a couple of adaptations of works by the [TS]

  corner with a salon y 0 0 which was we [TS]

  can't i can i'm going to 1 i'm going to [TS]

  say hi fidelity and we said about a boy [TS]

  then because which is also also a good [TS]

  movie yes an excellent movie and an [TS]

  excellent book yeah and so again [TS]

  hornby someone else who's writing is [TS]

  such a huge like you know he's got great [TS]

  prose absolutely really knows how to [TS]

  craft a sentence as hard to make that [TS]

  transition to film because you know his [TS]

  plots good news characters are good too [TS]

  which is what makes the film you know [TS]

  about a boy so good you know enjoyable [TS]

  yeah but at the same time you you know [TS]

  oh there's it's a totally different [TS]

  experience reading the book and so i [TS]

  think i read the book after i had seen [TS]

  the movie and you know there is that as [TS]

  you're talking with your wife you know [TS]

  there's that the disparities like wow I [TS]

  like the movie I mean maybe I like the [TS]

  book but you know my just gonna be [TS]

  picturing the same characters and yet [TS]

  for me it was totally you know totally [TS]

  different experience you know [TS]

  yes it was a story although it's the [TS]

  same story and the same characters it [TS]

  feels like something it feels like a [TS]

  different telling of the story of how [TS]

  well they understand there are also some [TS]

  changes in the in the movement from from [TS]

  the book and likewise high-fidelity I [TS]

  mean first off and set in Chicago [TS]

  instead of in London and they're all [TS]

  there are other things about it that are [TS]

  very different but in the same in the [TS]

  same way i think both of those movies [TS]

  have the have a sort of spirit of the [TS]

  book and the heart of the book is is [TS]

  where it should be and as a result they [TS]

  both work even though i'm a huge fan of [TS]

  his work and of those books and I I [TS]

  didn't feel offended by the changes they [TS]

  made because I felt like they were they [TS]

  were smart changes made for adapting it [TS]

  to a different medium which i Ken saying [TS]

  that they respect the spirit i think is [TS]

  really important like they do they [TS]

  somehow fit totally with with what he's [TS]

  the story he's generally tell and i [TS]

  would love to see he's written at least [TS]

  three other books that i think would be [TS]

  just excellent [TS]

  you know adaptations including a long [TS]

  way down [TS]

  slam which always I'm gonna be great [TS]

  yeah and a podcast and his most recent [TS]

  one Juliet naked which is a great just a [TS]

  great lackeys an expert at crafting [TS]

  stories and and like like John saying [TS]

  let's even kinghorn we can tell a great [TS]

  story and I think that that have really [TS]

  helps when you're translating something [TS]

  from from page to screen trying to think [TS]

  if there's one other thing on my so [TS]

  actually I'm going to let me let me [TS]

  branch off of something you said there [TS]

  which is we're talking about these [TS]

  movies that made changes to the book and [TS]

  i think it's worth at least touching on [TS]

  for a minute there can be adaptations [TS]

  that fail because they honor the source [TS]

  material too much and I think there are [TS]

  medications that are successful because [TS]

  they don't know is whether the slavish [TS]

  adaptation right is yeah is a problem in [TS]

  some ways if you are [TS]

  if hearing so closely to the weather of [TS]

  the book that you miss a book is not a [TS]

  movie right you know they're [TS]

  fundamentally two different forms like [TS]

  Dom saying there's things you can't do [TS]

  in a movie that you can do in a book and [TS]

  vice versa and so you know if you're [TS]

  trying to get here so closely then it [TS]

  loses it's like trying to make a [TS]

  photocopy and you know you might get [TS]

  sort of some of the fidelity but if you [TS]

  make a photocopy of a painting or [TS]

  something you know it's not you you're [TS]

  trying to reproduce it so exactly that [TS]

  you're you lose something of the [TS]

  original in that and and I think it's [TS]

  you know best when you put it in the [TS]

  hands of somebody who's really an artist [TS]

  in their own particular you know media [TS]

  right I think that's case number one [TS]

  item number one on the case against [TS]

  watchman is that is that he tried so [TS]

  hard to be faithfully you know including [TS]

  shot-by-shot recreations of panels and [TS]

  in the end the most interesting thing in [TS]

  that movie and I don't think it's as bad [TS]

  as most people think it is but not [TS]

  enough saying parts of it are terrible [TS]

  but um but the most interesting thing in [TS]

  the entire movie I think that everybody [TS]

  seems to like is the opening credits [TS]

  where he does something different that [TS]

  fits the medium that he's in even though [TS]

  he's telling the same story and the [TS]

  opening credit montage is fantastic and [TS]

  then you know but the rest of that movie [TS]

  is with the exception of trying to fix [TS]

  the the the ending which is kind of [TS]

  broken in the original to its it's so [TS]

  it's honoring the the gravity which is [TS]

  great and i love it so much so that I [TS]

  think it stifles the movie i think it [TS]

  actually kills it and that is another [TS]

  great you know example of that sort of [TS]

  thing although it's going from film to [TS]

  film is Gus Van Sant's attempt to do a [TS]

  shop by shop remake of psycho which [TS]

  totally loses the thread [TS]

  I mean you know again what you're trying [TS]

  to it there's a question of why but [TS]

  there's also a well clearly there's [TS]

  something going out going on in you know [TS]

  something on you know intangible going [TS]

  on in the original if you can copy a [TS]

  shot-by-shot and you go from making a [TS]

  one of the like best [TS]

  you know thriller movies ever 21 works [TS]

  throughout the movies ever [TS]

  clearly there's something that you're [TS]

  missing there and I think that's the [TS]

  danger of [TS]

  adapting a visual story to another [TS]

  visual medium right because you know [TS]

  graphic novels you have you can see it [TS]

  so you're tempted I imagine I've never [TS]

  made it with me but I would imagine that [TS]

  I would be tempted i love this graphic [TS]

  novel so much I want to take like the [TS]

  guys already laid out what it looks like [TS]

  so i can take that and just make it into [TS]

  my movie and it should be perfect and [TS]

  sadly it is not that's kind of us are [TS]

  called because like at this point comics [TS]

  especially about time watch men are [TS]

  being influenced by cinema so it's like [TS]

  it's a circle around where people are [TS]

  putting in comic panels cinematic points [TS]

  of view or things that they've seen in [TS]

  movies and then that gets fed back into [TS]

  a movie that gets fed back into the [TS]

  comic books that are there are certain [TS]

  things that are standard for comic books [TS]

  things that are standard forms but at [TS]

  this point they're so mixed up that it [TS]

  like it for someone who hadn't read the [TS]

  group The Watchmen graphic novel and I [TS]

  saw the movie [TS]

  sometimes I could pick out obviously [TS]

  they doing that thing where they picked [TS]

  a cell from that you know frame from the [TS]

  comic book and they're doing on screen [TS]

  but other points i could totally not [TS]

  telling only later when i went through [TS]

  the graphic novel that I see how that's [TS]

  actually something from the novel i was [TS]

  sure that was just something that was [TS]

  put in the movie because it's so [TS]

  cinematic and and what I see in the [TS]

  comic books like a freeze frame from a [TS]

  movie instead of vice versa [TS]

  huh that's a good point that's a good [TS]

  point just got what about you do you [TS]

  have some sterling examples of [TS]

  adaptations for us [TS]

  well sterling I don't know about butBut [TS]

  fun yes so and this one I don't know if [TS]

  it was going to Ruth you're not but i [TS]

  did enjoy the most recent hitchhiker's [TS]

  guide to the galaxy movie which I didn't [TS]

  get very good reviews and I heard [TS]

  someone say you so that was maybe as I [TS]

  may be alone in this but i think yeah I [TS]

  didn't I didn't I didn't load that I [TS]

  don't think I felt badly about it is as [TS]

  other people do but I you know it wasn't [TS]

  a perfect movie but I was disappointed I [TS]

  was disappointed by it more than and [TS]

  it's not love the source material so [TS]

  much it did have its moments [TS]

  that's why I enjoyed the moments I any [TS]

  movie that starts with dolphins singing [TS]

  a song it's really okay in my book [TS]

  and so it can only go up from there or I [TS]

  guess down from there you had never read [TS]

  a book do you think you would have [TS]

  enjoyed the movie at all [TS]

  I probably not i think that i love the [TS]

  books [TS]

  much that it gained a halo effect and [TS]

  the because you know what they're doing [TS]

  like they did select this seemed like it [TS]

  was like selected scenes from the [TS]

  hitchhiker's guide and if you ever read [TS]

  the whole thing the selected seems like [TS]

  oh yeah I remember that party during a [TS]

  movie now I look at it in a different [TS]

  part you know but there was simply [TS]

  didn't you know i can see that another [TS]

  example of a book that it you know you [TS]

  could argue is unfilmable and of course [TS]

  you know maybe nothing's really [TS]

  unfilmable in this day and age but again [TS]

  there's something so in eight in in the [TS]

  way the Adams writes that well and yet [TS]

  the BBC series miniseries isn't it you [TS]

  know is I think better you know tied [TS]

  into the well the novel that material is [TS]

  too long for a movie and the other thing [TS]

  is it's like then was saying that the [TS]

  transitions in the book from one Rico's [TS]

  think the next happen because of douglas [TS]

  adams writing so he brings you from you [TS]

  know 1 plus the other unless you're [TS]

  going to translate his writing directly [TS]

  into a voiceover and do it in a [TS]

  long-running miniseries this you can't [TS]

  visually transition from one set of [TS]

  events together without Douglas Adam [TS]

  writing you through it tonight is toss [TS]

  up the guide in most cases and have the [TS]

  guide you know and and that can work or [TS]

  not that happens in the in the TV series [TS]

  the BBC TV series as well we're all of a [TS]

  sudden you're back in the guide and I I [TS]

  think of the movie they they they did a [TS]

  pretty interesting job of trying to [TS]

  weave the hitchhiker's guide itself into [TS]

  the into the story but i suppose it [TS]

  might make no sense if you haven't read [TS]

  the book and it takes you out of the [TS]

  movie experience that once you once even [TS]

  let us probably voiceover is there any [TS]

  sort of thing where you have like a [TS]

  title card right you're taking me out of [TS]

  the cinematic experience and saying now [TS]

  we're going to read your blog and now [TS]

  we're going to take your buddy Silver's [TS]

  yeah i mean this the shawshank [TS]

  redemption has voiceover I mean like you [TS]

  know there is there yet but it is not [TS]

  time in place for them but the [TS]

  voice-over is not from the book the [TS]

  voice-over is a device to make the movie [TS]

  work it's not like show crazy scene then [TS]

  grabbed three power is out of the book [TS]

  and put them up on the screen as a [TS]

  voice-over and then show another crazy [TS]

  see you know but i think i think what [TS]

  they were trying to do in the [TS]

  hitchhiker's movie is something it as i [TS]

  recall having only seen once something [TS]

  almost more like I like what they didn't [TS]

  scott pilgrim where it's it's like a [TS]

  trying to be kind of this overlay [TS]

  multiple you know where modern people we [TS]

  multitask and here's this crazy [TS]

  hitchhiker's guide because in some ways [TS]

  the hitchhiker's guide as a concept [TS]

  makes more sense now than it did then in [TS]

  a way it's more real because we have [TS]

  like Wikipedia and iPads and things like [TS]

  that it's true and and so I kind of [TS]

  think of it as like a at least in the [TS]

  movie they kind of get like a pop-up [TS]

  video kind of thing right so they would [TS]

  be the the entry and hitchhiker's guide [TS]

  that Stephen Fry would read because he [TS]

  was the voice of the trackers got in the [TS]

  movie was related to whatever action [TS]

  maybe not directly but in some way that [TS]

  was happening in the movie so kind of [TS]

  gay and not you know i know this movie [TS]

  is not great but I enjoyed it so it kind [TS]

  of gave people who haven't read the book [TS]

  an idea of what's going on [TS]

  all right at least that's what they were [TS]

  trying any other suggestions [TS]

  Scott well i will suggest i only like [TS]

  this movie because i hated the book so [TS]

  much [TS]

  ah so I i will say harry potter i enjoy [TS]

  the movie much more than I enjoyed the [TS]

  book did you watch other harry potter [TS]

  movies i have watched all the harry [TS]

  potter movie is a matter of fact and [TS]

  refuse to read any of the books after [TS]

  the first one very interesting [TS]

  Scott and I to harry potter haters who [TS]

  have all seen all the movies it's right [TS]

  I like Harry Potter even though I have [TS]

  to admit this as i'm reading them out [TS]

  loud to my kids that she's really not a [TS]

  very good writer she's a good thank [TS]

  world builder and you can you know she's [TS]

  good world builder and that comes across [TS]

  the movies and she I think she gets [TS]

  better as a writer as she goes along she [TS]

  clearly learns are inherently podcast [TS]

  talking talking about i think it does i [TS]

  think I hydrated editor more later but [TS]

  she's a better writer i think i think [TS]

  it's this weird thing where she got less [TS]

  editing because she was famous but she [TS]

  was also actually working hard writing [TS]

  these huge books and was just it was [TS]

  getting better at her craft as she went [TS]

  which is weird so she ended up being [TS]

  kind of like need still needing an [TS]

  editor but clearly being better what [TS]

  she's doing [TS]

  then she was at the beginning but the [TS]

  world building is great and that leads [TS]

  to these great movies that are a lot of [TS]

  fun because there is some so much [TS]

  interesting stuff to base the movie on [TS]

  because it's she's got a plot and she's [TS]

  got an interesting world which is a good [TS]

  source material for a movie i was going [TS]

  to hold these movies up as an example of [TS]

  even though i haven't read the books as [TS]

  an example of movies that suffered from [TS]

  being too faithful for the book not that [TS]

  they took everything that was in the [TS]

  books and put it in there but they felt [TS]

  the need to us at all we gotta have the [TS]

  element X so we gotta have character why [TS]

  are we going to have elements see and [TS]

  they they did that too much they didn't [TS]

  cut enough so what you end up with [TS]

  especially for someone who hasn't read [TS]

  the book and especially in later movies [TS]

  are these movies where it's like Andrew [TS]

  this this character in this plot point [TS]

  and don't forget about this character [TS]

  this plot point and by the way this [TS]

  character this plot point and we'll hit [TS]

  about this backstory but now it was too [TS]

  many little things that were to just [TS]

  jointed because they could not bear to [TS]

  not have this thing in the movie when [TS]

  really to make a better movie you should [TS]

  have cut those characters combined [TS]

  characters into one you know maybe I i [TS]

  can see why you're saying that but [TS]

  having read the books they actually do a [TS]

  lot of that that I didn't have enough [TS]

  they threw I think through as much out [TS]

  as they thought they could get away with [TS]

  a couldn't like combined characters for [TS]

  example but I I do [TS]

  having just seen one of these the other [TS]

  day we my kids saw the fourth one for [TS]

  the first time because we're watching [TS]

  them after we read the books and boy [TS]

  they they did a lot of compression [TS]

  compression which was good because it's [TS]

  a really long book and a lot of the [TS]

  stuff could just get tossed out the [TS]

  whole subplots get tossed out and things [TS]

  get shortened down and simplified and [TS]

  you know what they couldn't actually did [TS]

  a pretty good job of the plot resolution [TS]

  at the end because the book has got two [TS]

  chapters of just painful plot exposition [TS]

  at the end was like let me explain [TS]

  everything that's been happening behind [TS]

  the scenes while this entire book went [TS]

  on [TS]

  it's so awful and in the movie it's [TS]

  handled much more straightforwardly my [TS]

  wife was telling me that the big problem [TS]

  from respect that because she's at [TS]

  basically Harry Potter scholar at this [TS]

  point the box [TS]

  the big problem was that they started [TS]

  filming the movies before the books were [TS]

  done so because they didn't know where [TS]

  this series we're going they didn't know [TS]

  what was important and by the time you [TS]

  get three or four movies in you like we [TS]

  didn't even show this in movies 1 and 2 [TS]

  because we didn't think it would be [TS]

  important but now in book five and six [TS]

  becomes super important and now we have [TS]

  to fill you know backfill i read an [TS]

  article on anything [TS]

  weekly a few years back but said that [TS]

  they actually had a few questions like [TS]

  that road and JK Rowling approves all [TS]

  the screenplays and she actually gave [TS]

  them note saying no you can't get rid of [TS]

  this character here because they are [TS]

  important later [TS]

  even though she hadn't written and [TS]

  published all the books yet she knew [TS]

  where the plot was going so they did [TS]

  some of that at least where she was like [TS]

  no no you can't take that out that [TS]

  someone could have been worse but from [TS]

  it from my wife's percentage and I think [TS]

  that's what I'm saying it could have [TS]

  been less interested there's the matter [TS]

  of this week's podcast it could have [TS]

  been worse along along those lines are [TS]

  really similar genre any-to-any CS lewis [TS]

  fans yeah I was a kid I read all those [TS]

  books I mean I i really have a fun spot [TS]

  for some of the books though going back [TS]

  and reread them at you know when [TS]

  slightly older you know there's a lot [TS]

  there's a different reading you get when [TS]

  you have an adult reading I totally [TS]

  missed the whole thing about ashlynn [TS]

  being Jesus yeah I think I i think that [TS]

  probably as it has a war you know the [TS]

  child of a family that didn't really [TS]

  know go to church have much in the way [TS]

  of religious upbringing that totally [TS]

  flew over my head as well [TS]

  that said I still think Lewis is a great [TS]

  storyteller and several books on their [TS]

  own are excellent excellent stories i [TS]

  mean the voyage of the dawn treader i [TS]

  have not seen the movie which is came [TS]

  out but you're like last year i guess [TS]

  but that book remains you know I'm very [TS]

  a it I idea has a very fond memory for [TS]

  me because it's very me and then later [TS]

  you know comparing with other things [TS]

  that reminds me very much of something [TS]

  like The Odyssey and it's got this was [TS]

  sort of a whole plot about you know [TS]

  going on this this lengthy boat ride [TS]

  with all these adventures and stuff like [TS]

  that and i thought i only saw the first [TS]

  of the movies which was okay i think to [TS]

  a certain extent they do fall into that [TS]

  trap of trying to remain a little bit [TS]

  too faithful and and it comes across as [TS]

  somewhat bloodless yeah diversity there [TS]

  there are some good points in it and [TS]

  there are some nice performances in some [TS]

  you know a couple things elements that I [TS]

  really did like but on the whole yeah it [TS]

  does come across as a little bit too i [TS]

  don't know just maybe just a little bit [TS]

  too bloodless and I did not see [TS]

  I heard the second one was better I [TS]

  didn't see it for a second was better on [TS]

  my I'm asking i say i was gonna say you [TS]

  hit it right on the nose with blood [TS]

  listen that the first movie was the best [TS]

  of them in terms of building the world's [TS]

  feel alive and making it feel like [TS]

  there's something at stake in making [TS]

  care about the characters in the red the [TS]

  second was their third movie I don't [TS]

  know if I've seen all them but it was [TS]

  the third they get progressively more [TS]

  generic and just nothing is at stake and [TS]

  you're not really excited about anyone [TS]

  that is going through the motions yeah [TS]

  that I'd argue that the best of the [TS]

  books maybe the ones that are tangential [TS]

  to thats whole series which are the [TS]

  horse and his boy and the magician's [TS]

  nephew in that they sort of they aren't [TS]

  about the characters that we follow [TS]

  through the first three or four books [TS]

  and they kind of stand on their own a [TS]

  little better so i don't know if they'll [TS]

  get around you know if it was i suppose [TS]

  as long as those movies keep making [TS]

  money than they keep making them but I [TS]

  don't know if they'll get around to [TS]

  those because they don't follow the sort [TS]

  of main plot right so I've got I've got [TS]

  some things to speak of positively iĆ­ve [TS]

  actually i'm slightly cheating i have a [TS]

  children's book a a non jon renau novel [TS]

  and a graphic novel that I'll mention in [TS]

  turn the children's book is The Iron [TS]

  Giant based on the iron man i love this [TS]

  movie and you know at some point movie [TS]

  had some point we could even when we [TS]

  talk about children's movies which I [TS]

  think we're going to do I can I could [TS]

  rhapsodize about it more but i love the [TS]

  movie I think it's a great movie [TS]

  it's brad bird before he went to Pixar [TS]

  and made the incredibles and ratatouille [TS]

  he made the Iron Giant and it sort of [TS]

  sticked at the box office but gosh it's [TS]

  a great movie and and based on a you [TS]

  know some source material that's a [TS]

  little bit different but a beloved [TS]

  children's book called the Ironman and [TS]

  so iron giant i think is a great example [TS]

  of again you've got a you've got a book [TS]

  with illustrations and a story but it's [TS]

  not a particular you know it's not a [TS]

  children's novel and then it's expanded [TS]

  on and and made into this great movie [TS]

  I got ya i'm actually just getting [TS]

  goosebumps when you're talking about [TS]

  just because I'm remembering the movie [TS]

  is such a great movie today and [TS]

  especially the you know the the climax [TS]

  in the end of that room gets a little [TS]

  dusty at the end of that movie so it is [TS]

  it is a little eyes get along bad [TS]

  yes oh yeah it's it's well done though [TS]

  it's a very good movie i only saw it I i [TS]

  first saw the movie just a few years ago [TS]

  I mean it came out when the nineties [TS]

  it's literally old i think i was a [TS]

  teenager or something when it came out [TS]

  but I'm i saw just a few years ago and [TS]

  really I just really adored it's great [TS]

  movie and it features the the vocal [TS]

  stylings of hair country [TS]

  yeah generate jennifer aniston and [TS]

  commentaries elad the iron giant beast [TS]

  was the iron giant that's right a role [TS]

  he was our-our 1999 that that film came [TS]

  out another one that i love and we [TS]

  talked about this earlier when I grabbed [TS]

  Dan high-fidelity unicorn be one of my [TS]

  favorite writers i love this movie to [TS]

  this is actually and and i love the book [TS]

  and they are different but you know that [TS]

  it's hearts in the right place the the [TS]

  characters are strong john cusack is [TS]

  exactly as much of a an idiot who has [TS]

  got a lot to learn about life and about [TS]

  his relationship with other people [TS]

  especially women and just does a great [TS]

  job eh you know i think it's it's a [TS]

  great performance by him great direction [TS]

  by stephen frears of interesting so [TS]

  English director reset the movie into [TS]

  America and then have an English [TS]

  director love that movie I and that's [TS]

  one of those movies that i can watch [TS]

  again and again and and and I just [TS]

  really liked it even though they made a [TS]

  bunch of changes to it it's still really [TS]

  is holds up [TS]

  yeah and-and-and I'd hasn't changed my [TS]

  feelings about the book the book is [TS]

  great the movies great they're a little [TS]

  different [TS]

  they're both great and for the in the [TS]

  graphic novel category i mentioned watch [TS]

  men being a bit of a failure I'm going [TS]

  to turn it around with another alan [TS]

  moore selection which is V for Vendetta [TS]

  which I really love it hits hits me just [TS]

  write it i really like that movie [TS]

  I interesting affecting has some [TS]

  interesting things to say I think about [TS]

  politics without being too preachy I [TS]

  actually think that you can view it in a [TS]

  bunch of different ways and I think it [TS]

  makes them interesting statements about [TS]

  totality arianism ended yet it's got a [TS]

  1984 kind of vibe and a lot of nods to [TS]

  1984 it right down to the fact that John [TS]

  Hurt is in it who was in the movie 1984 [TS]

  and I've got the graphic novel and the [TS]

  graphic novel is good but i think they [TS]

  did a good job and in in translating it [TS]

  and and you know it it's easy to mess [TS]

  something like this up as watch Ben I [TS]

  think showed and I don't think they did [TS]

  with the fervent vendetta in fact if you [TS]

  view this it was directed by james [TS]

  McTeague but it was produced by the wash [TS]

  house keys and if you view this through [TS]

  the lens of how how bad the matrix [TS]

  sequels were what-what-what matrix [TS]

  sequels if you view anything through [TS]

  that lens looks better [TS]

  that's that's true i think we should [TS]

  talk about bad movies [TS]

  let's get negative that's all i can [TS]

  think about who's all right I'll aalam [TS]

  i'm going to start and say that one of [TS]

  the mood one of the books that i [TS]

  actually have always enjoyed and was one [TS]

  of my favorite books when I was a [TS]

  teenager is arthur c Clark's sequel to [TS]

  his novel 2001 called 2010 and I really [TS]

  liked that book it's got a lot of [TS]

  interesting stuff in it some interesting [TS]

  characters some interesting stuff [TS]

  happens and then they made the movie and [TS]

  it's not just the peter hyams is no [TS]

  Stanley Kubrick but that movie is is bad [TS]

  it's bad in lots of ways it takes some [TS]

  liberties when it shouldn't and then is [TS]

  devoted to the story in ways that it [TS]

  shouldn't be and omits the best scene [TS]

  which kills me [TS]

  probably for budgetary reasons the best [TS]

  scene the scene that sticks with me more [TS]

  than any other the scene that gave me [TS]

  chills when I read when I reread it on [TS]

  new year's eve 2010 I i spent a couple [TS]

  hours and i reread some of the novel and [TS]

  I didn't they just didn't [TS]

  they took it all out they didn't even [TS]

  try to film it or even mention it they [TS]

  just took it all out butchered bad movie [TS]

  enjoyable book think it's a bad [TS]

  reputation sequels the other sequels [TS]

  aren't as good but i really enjoyed that [TS]

  book i think it was interesting to have [TS]

  arthur c clarke kind of reclaim his part [TS]

  of the story separate from the movie but [TS]

  then they made a movie and a big mistake [TS]

  and bad movie and it came out within a [TS]

  couple weeks of dune by the way at one [TS]

  point they were both playing [TS]

  side-by-side in my local local adduplex [TS]

  movie house in the small town that I [TS]

  grew up in I I you you remind me this by [TS]

  mentioning Eleanor and alan moore of [TS]

  course you famously does not want his [TS]

  name on any movie that is made out of [TS]

  his his comic books but i will say keep [TS]

  the league of extraordinary gentlemen [TS]

  it's a pretty good comic book on a [TS]

  narrowboat movie that is one of the one [TS]

  of the worst movies i may have ever seen [TS]

  in a movie theater and again not for [TS]

  lack mean not for lack of trying in some [TS]

  ways I mean I do love to have a special [TS]

  place in my heart for Sean Connery and [TS]

  yet he does not that is not a good [TS]

  revision in any way shape or form and [TS]

  Alan Moore's is right to have taken his [TS]

  name off of them [TS]

  Scott can you be negative now I can be [TS]

  negative so I i have to preface this by [TS]

  saying that uh when I was younger I [TS]

  would follow I still do this I fall into [TS]

  certain moods and i obsessively read [TS]

  certain authors or genres and so at some [TS]

  point i came across one of l ron [TS]

  Hubbard's [TS]

  he wants fiction writer before he was a [TS]

  founder of a religion and I get your but [TS]

  you're not going to believe this is [TS]

  scott but before I was deciding whether [TS]

  i wanted to mention battlefield earth or [TS]

  let you go [TS]

  ah really serious i wrote it down [TS]

  battlecruiser is a battlefield earth is [TS]

  going exactly the book it's i read the [TS]

  book and I mean it's not a great piece [TS]

  of literature but I'll ron Hubbard is [TS]

  not a great writer but he's a pulp you [TS]

  know a pulp sci-fi writer so his books [TS]

  are fun [TS]

  I'm i Dianetics in those books are a [TS]

  different kind of literature so [TS]

  battlefield earth as a book is a fun [TS]

  book it's really long and then you get [TS]

  John Travolta who is a devout [TS]

  Scientologist who wants to bring you [TS]

  know l ron Hubbard's masterpiece to the [TS]

  through the screen right and and [TS]

  speaking of slavish devotion to the book [TS]

  right [TS]

  he just films this i think it was 16 [TS]

  hours long movie that is just awful only [TS]

  seemed like it was that like that that I [TS]

  tried to watch that movie in and just to [TS]

  make fun of it with friends cars we end [TS]

  usually that goes pretty well we [TS]

  couldn't get through like however it was [TS]

  so terrible that movie is so bad you [TS]

  can't even make promises i watch the [TS]

  whole thing [TS]

  no you know so bad it's funny this is so [TS]

  bad it's funny that you haven't murdered [TS]

  yourself exactly i would be bad i would [TS]

  not recommend that he would watch [TS]

  battlefield [TS]

  yeah no don't don't just hit you might [TS]

  say to yourself well get the rifftrax [TS]

  and about no no don't it's not worth it [TS]

  read the book the book isn't all that [TS]

  great but it's much better than the [TS]

  movie [TS]

  well he wasn't you know he was a pulp [TS]

  sci-fi writer before he was a founder of [TS]

  a religion and and its trip that you can [TS]

  he could do fun stuff [TS]

  yeah i mean i read a lot of his books he [TS]

  wrote a ten-part series mission earth [TS]

  which I read which is a lot of fun i [TS]

  hope John Travolta does not make any [TS]

  mission of movies i would i would i [TS]

  would like to see somebody going in the [TS]

  other direction start religion and then [TS]

  become a pulp science fiction author you [TS]

  know if Jesus is written top science [TS]

  fiction for example might have very [TS]

  different out he went under the sun [TS]

  under the pen-name ass land oh wait a [TS]

  second I see what you did there come [TS]

  back [TS]

  that may be the worst movie ever made by [TS]

  anyone in the United I don't know if [TS]

  they made it all the way down the bottom [TS]

  of the AMD bottom 100 but I about pretty [TS]

  sure it's in there [TS]

  I'm just trying to think of other [TS]

  terrible movies made throughout history [TS]

  and and imagining if they were novel [TS]

  sprite it's like the guy the guy who [TS]

  wrote geely not always ago they messed [TS]

  up my book and read everything through [TS]

  and my book the guy who wrote the novel [TS]

  from Justin to Kelly he must be furious [TS]

  when they made that well that's my [TS]

  allergy or didn't want his name on that [TS]

  movie because there's a great comic book [TS]

  now I mean well yeah but they took out [TS]

  the swamp thing entirely when they [TS]

  remade this from Justin to Kelly it's a [TS]

  shame it did it [TS]

  yeah I believe Justin he was the floor [TS]

  onic man in the original comic think [TS]

  that I think that's right yes starship [TS]

  troopers is also another movie that I [TS]

  think not out clearly not as bad [TS]

  battlefield earth i know i like that [TS]

  movie I I don't have to analyze and my [TS]

  starship troopers it's it's interesting [TS]

  though because in some ways it has a [TS]

  very antithetical I think point compared [TS]

  to the book like there's a movie that [TS]

  was made that has a you know kind of the [TS]

  almost the opposite [TS]

  yes I don't think that looking i think [TS]

  it's i think it's just morally I think [TS]

  it's more of a satire and ave potatoes [TS]

  au gratin potatoes so far in the [TS]

  direction like it takes an earnest [TS]

  message and does it even more earnestly [TS]

  to the point you're like okay no one can [TS]

  be this earnest this must be a sad time [TS]

  right so right but i think i like to [TS]

  think that I'm yeah I think that's the [TS]

  point right exactly i mean like [TS]

  highlands very serious about what he was [TS]

  what he was talking about in terms of [TS]

  you know the military whereas the you [TS]

  know clearly the movie I mean get no [TS]

  farther than dressing up Neil Patrick [TS]

  Harris not basically a Nazi help like [TS]

  not all right you're making a point here [TS]

  yeah its memory is it's not a terrible [TS]

  movie and someone's going to great movie [TS]

  i like it because i like it because [TS]

  Jughead to watch that movie think it's [TS]

  about how awesome the army if that's a [TS]

  favorite thing for me about that [TS]

  propagates it's a satire that most [TS]

  people don't view as a sad [TS]

  that's the most successful kind because [TS]

  you'll see tons of people like starship [TS]

  troopers is awesome man with those bugs [TS]

  and shoot them [TS]

  that's what the majority of the public i [TS]

  feel thinks about when they see starship [TS]

  troopers and i just missed the entire [TS]

  rest of it [TS]

  one that i wanted to mention the golden [TS]

  compass anyone read that I'm not [TS]

  available feel successful a movie that [TS]

  they didn't go on and make the other [TS]

  that movie was awful and the book is [TS]

  delightful [TS]

  I've heard I've heard that those those [TS]

  books are actually very good and I've [TS]

  been meaning to read those books I I [TS]

  think they're they're deeply deeply [TS]

  flawed and and i think that the the [TS]

  first book there there's some great [TS]

  stuff in there but I that first book is [TS]

  really problematic and I think they got [TS]

  the movie wasn't any good either [TS]

  although it did have giant armored polar [TS]

  bears fighting at one point which if [TS]

  there's anything redeeming in that in [TS]

  that movie it was that true about the [TS]

  books like SuperDuper anti-religion [TS]

  that's why the movies were no good if [TS]

  that's the case because you can make a [TS]

  movie that sense of religion because no [TS]

  one will go see it but apparently you [TS]

  can make a series of fantasy books and [TS]

  while auntie organized religion and [TS]

  people buy them yeah there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff in that movie in those books that [TS]

  is this kind of I mean I you know I [TS]

  won't say that it wasn't successful [TS]

  because it didn't sell but because [TS]

  there's up there's a problem with the [TS]

  plot and character isn't he an issue [TS]

  okay so it's not it's not necessarily [TS]

  that it's preachy about what it's pretty [TS]

  well I think it's poorly i think it's [TS]

  poorly written in some ways there's [TS]

  there's some stuff that's not you know [TS]

  it's just there are some stuff in there [TS]

  in those books that is is quite sloppy [TS]

  from a writing perspective in my opinion [TS]

  Scott did you like the books i did like [TS]

  the books I i don't recall anything that [TS]

  happened didn't but when i was on home i [TS]

  did enjoy them actually just a hypnotic [TS]

  suggestion that you will feel refreshed [TS]

  and enjoy the enjoyed the books accepted [TS]

  no actual plot no plot and I I the [TS]

  movies was awful [TS]

  the book was not all [TS]

  alright there's a lot of that there is [TS]

  that there are more bad applications [TS]

  than good adaptations for I think screen [TS]

  there more but they're more bad movies [TS]

  then there are good movies i think two [TS]

  is anyone seen screamers there's a bad [TS]

  movie based on and philip k dick short [TS]

  story [TS]

  philip k dick is really a and I have a [TS]

  rifle through every single thing he's [TS]

  written now and turn it into a movie i [TS]

  think with with varying degrees of [TS]

  success [TS]

  yes right blade runner one ball total [TS]

  recall you [TS]

  Blade Runner is a good example of of [TS]

  taking taking a book are novel and then [TS]

  making a movie that has the same title [TS]

  but had never entitled call you don't [TS]

  mean that we wanted android your [TS]

  electrical work if that but you know to [TS]

  me it's it's based on a novel but has so [TS]

  little to do with it that so level and [TS]

  that book are so far apart in tone and [TS]

  message in plot in characters and [TS]

  everything is just like I guess you were [TS]

  inspired by the everybody only dick the [TS]

  total total recall is interesting [TS]

  because there was this there is the [TS]

  novella that turned into the movie and [TS]

  then the movie had a tie-in novel [TS]

  novelization of course and also have [TS]

  that by piers anthony oh so from philip [TS]

  k dick you go all the way back and rest [TS]

  adjusting it to me you know that is that [TS]

  is it secure [TS]

  you know so before we go I wanted to [TS]

  mention a novelization speaking [TS]

  novelizations that that I loved when I [TS]

  was a teenager that was just a movie [TS]

  novelization so going back the other [TS]

  direction which is one of my favorite [TS]

  movies and Star Trek to and i bought the [TS]

  novelization of that which is by vonda [TS]

  mcintyre who's won the hugo awards and [TS]

  there's a very good writer and I I [TS]

  probably if I went back and read it now [TS]

  I'd be deeply disappointed but I read [TS]

  that thing like two or three times and [TS]

  it was a really good book largely [TS]

  because she expanded the screenplay into [TS]

  a novel's worth of of stuff it's sort of [TS]

  the reverse of what we were saying about [TS]

  harry potter where you have to throw a [TS]

  bunch of stuff out she's sort of you [TS]

  know in star trek to when they go down [TS]

  to the the [TS]

  the space station that's orbiting around [TS]

  the asteroid they find all the dead [TS]

  bodies hanging in there and it's sort of [TS]

  like oh those guys who were in that one [TS]

  scene earlier in the background now [TS]

  they're dead [TS]

  well whatever and in the novel they're [TS]

  like all of these scenes with these [TS]

  characters and their the scientists [TS]

  they're trying to figure out this [TS]

  problem and then they're running and [TS]

  they're trying to escape from con before [TS]

  he kills them all and they get ma died [TS]

  and they're coming up and it's very sad [TS]

  and so every now and then I I you know [TS]

  at least when I was a when I was younger [TS]

  readers movie novelizations and most of [TS]

  them were very bad but that was pretty [TS]

  good and I've got on my bookshelf here [TS]

  but still haven't read it [TS]

  the out-of-print abyss novelization [TS]

  which is by orson scott card which is [TS]

  actually supposed to be not actually [TS]

  supposed to be not bad but strange and [TS]

  and I and I believe long out-of-print [TS]

  which ice [TS]

  I may be the only person in the world to [TS]

  own a copy of the novelization of Hudson [TS]

  Hawk which was given to me by an [TS]

  ex-girlfriend who worked in a bookstore [TS]

  because she found it one day and onto [TS]

  that was book section that i have not I [TS]

  have not cracked it open but it the idea [TS]

  that they novelized that music to be [TS]

  like who is the audience but because it [TS]

  only liked it you know I wanted a few [TS]

  people like the movie [TS]

  most people didn't like the movie and it [TS]

  seems unlikely with novelizations [TS]

  fascinating Marco they thought people [TS]

  would like it right you gotta be you [TS]

  gotta say this is gonna be a hit we're [TS]

  gonna have a novelization out there you [TS]

  can change novel is it novelizations [TS]

  fascinate me because they say look we [TS]

  think you're unlikely to watch the movie [TS]

  or something or you either you enjoyed [TS]

  the movie or we think you're unlikely to [TS]

  watch it but like what person says yeah [TS]

  you know what I don't really like that [TS]

  will be all wait for the book right [TS]

  I don't think that's a big slice like [TS]

  it's your various people are waiting for [TS]

  the related by the movie and you want to [TS]

  read the book because the movie was so [TS]

  great you want to read the book at him [TS]

  like usual a 210 mostly one more about [TS]

  their especially when they adapt books [TS]

  and then novel eyes them again because [TS]

  clearly the people who are considered [TS]

  themselves too snooty 22 oh yeah that [TS]

  was a much better book aren't gonna read [TS]

  a novelization yeah what do I think [TS]

  you're the first people I've ever met [TS]

  who bought novelizations and rhythm [TS]

  always wanted to buys these things [TS]

  novelizations movies there anybody out [TS]

  there looking for these but here we have [TS]

  two people who willingly for [TS]

  you got novelizations of movies i didn't [TS]

  buy one it was given mine was given i [TS]

  can't remember the last time i did it [TS]

  but when i was when i was a kid in a [TS]

  huge Star Trek fan and i would buy any [TS]

  Star Trek book that i could get my hands [TS]

  on and then you know they came out with [TS]

  a novelization of these books and now [TS]

  that one I are in particular I remember [TS]

  because it was by an actually you know a [TS]

  good novelist and and she did a i think [TS]

  a pretty good job and and that there are [TS]

  some other some other really good [TS]

  writers who have done novelizations of [TS]

  didn't Greg bear it great where does a [TS]

  halo I think he did [TS]

  hello yeah there's some strange so the [TS]

  video game novelizations is also a [TS]

  really big really big thing that you but [TS]

  I was gonna say i have all the I do [TS]

  actually have all the novelization of [TS]

  the Star Wars trilogy right which are [TS]

  odd and then the splitter in my mind's [TS]

  eye which is like in the nether regional [TS]

  which was written by the same guy who [TS]

  goes fairly lost star wars [TS]

  yeah the star wars novelization the [TS]

  Stars the opposition is notable for me [TS]

  in that it actually contains a reference [TS]

  like obi-wan Kenobi talks about ducks [TS]

  which may or may not exist in the star [TS]

  wars universe it's unclear got arrested [TS]

  somehow you know exchange and that was [TS]

  by George Lucas right window [TS]

  hi George look it was by alan dean [TS]

  foster goes right but the first one is [TS]

  actually credited to George Lucas what [TS]

  it is literally just behind a return of [TS]

  the jedi yeah i think they later on [TS]

  changing minor reprints of it they took [TS]

  off [TS]

  they took off Lucas's name is khan you [TS]

  know it's not just not Jimmy combi ask [TS]

  the the axon like misspelling wrath of [TS]

  ahs what is this Darth Vader guy the [TS]

  wrath of james caan I've got a book [TS]

  about a movie i would watch the rap of [TS]

  james caan by the way i would read the [TS]

  novelization of the wrath of change come [TS]

  in misery also another I think movie [TS]

  that did a good job of translating from [TS]

  a book to movie [TS]

  speaking of James Caan and and [TS]

  even King another one of Stephen King [TS]

  shorter books only about an inch thick [TS]

  maybe less [TS]

  are there are there books that you feel [TS]

  should or need to be made it clear that [TS]

  you would like to see as a movie I'd [TS]

  like to see The Dark Tower is a [TS]

  miniseries and luckily i'm gonna always [TS]

  going to get that chance to tell me [TS]

  you're gonna get a movie and then a TV [TS]

  series and then another movie iron that [TS]

  I movie series i would like the dark [TS]

  tower to get the Lord of the Rings type [TS]

  treatment and it won't fit in the series [TS]

  of movies so i guess they have to do [TS]

  some of the forms of they're gonna do it [TS]

  as a miniseries and and and a bunch of [TS]

  movies then give it a try i hope it [TS]

  doesn't come out like the standard [TS]

  miniseries which was a total disaster [TS]

  so I've got my fingers crossed for a [TS]

  dark tower they're making two other good [TS]

  neil gaiman works into into adaptations [TS]

  the Good Omens and the american gods are [TS]

  both being turned into I think [TS]

  miniseries I'm both which are excellent [TS]

  books see I'm looking forward to that [TS]

  and i would say I this actually came [TS]

  recently a cousin of my cousin's email [TS]

  me to say her husband was a huge film [TS]

  buff was talking to this guy who is who [TS]

  had made a fairly well-known movie and [TS]

  said this guy is looking for you know [TS]

  his next sort of project and looking [TS]

  something to adapt into a movie and so [TS]

  she was asking us for suggestions and [TS]

  one of the ones i came up with which is [TS]

  a series of books that I mean for a [TS]

  while by any mike carey who's a fairly [TS]

  well-known comic book writer has also [TS]

  written this series of novels about a [TS]

  their kind of a new war supernatural [TS]

  story and when they're about a guy who's [TS]

  an exorcist but he's very much in the [TS]

  mold of your sort of classic noir [TS]

  detective and I think those the they're [TS]

  called the Felix caster series and I [TS]

  think those would make very interesting [TS]

  either sort of seemed like a bad picture [TS]

  them is like a BBC series type thing [TS]

  with you know six episodes per season or [TS]

  something like that but it would be I [TS]

  would be really interested to see how [TS]

  they would adapt those um I think I [TS]

  think of the sci-fi novels of jack [TS]

  mcdevitt are all sort of widescreen [TS]

  sci-fi you know big big idea kind of a [TS]

  rollicking space adventures and I i'm [TS]

  surprised that one of those hasn't made [TS]

  it into a a big-budget sci-fi movie [TS]

  because the kind of mystery action [TS]

  you know spaceships flying around kind [TS]

  of stuff so I'm a little surprised but I [TS]

  would also go with you Dan [TS]

  I'd love to slam by nick hornby as a as [TS]

  a movie while Tony Hawk can still be [TS]

  himself as the as the appearance of the [TS]

  good [TS]

  good [TS]

  post or astral projection or something [TS]

  of tony hawk as at leaving makeup looks [TS]

  really good yeah that would make an [TS]

  excellent movie series i don't know how [TS]

  you do it means miniseries now I think [TS]

  that would be a public thing you make [TS]

  that what that could work as a movie i [TS]

  think the miniseries it's unfortunate [TS]

  the main series gets a pretty bad rap in [TS]

  the US for the most part except for HBO [TS]

  communications like HBO basically was [TS]

  going to put the money into it but i'm [TS]

  slammed with work and it is genre in the [TS]

  sense that there's like an alternate [TS]

  there's like it also is a sliding doors [TS]

  kind of thing where there's like an [TS]

  alternate reality that he visits or [TS]

  something and then he comes back to the [TS]

  one reality and tony hawk is his spirit [TS]

  guide them it's funny it's good as i [TS]

  mentioned i whatever I get obsessed with [TS]

  particular author so as I was a kid I [TS]

  was obsessed with Isaac as well and i [TS]

  read the Foundation series which [TS]

  probably is better in my mom and my [TS]

  memory than actually in reality but i [TS]

  would be interested in some way that I [TS]

  mean I would tap that i don't know i had [TS]

  developed god I mean we didn't know we [TS]

  mentioned i robot which is a terrible at [TS]

  it yeah well it's not even an adaptation [TS]

  really know although is everything a [TS]

  resident listen [TS]

  yeah Allison screenplay which is very [TS]

  good very very good if you if you are [TS]

  and get a chance to read it it's it was [TS]

  published as a book [TS]

  yeah harlan ellison's irobot screenplay [TS]

  he did a great job at trying to bring [TS]

  all that together and and it's a you [TS]

  know it's sort of a shame that never got [TS]

  made because it's way better like this [TS]

  will smith movie photos my really like I [TS]

  really liked is that his mystery series [TS]

  sci-fi mystery series the caves of steel [TS]

  the as mouth ones but there's a trail [TS]

  right i think i read four books that [TS]

  that tie in with foundation later on but [TS]

  I reliable those are kind of fun sort of [TS]

  pop boilers right about a rendezvous [TS]

  with rama which apparently will never [TS]

  actually be made into a movie but they [TS]

  keep trying to make it into a movie they [TS]

  keep trying now I think cgi the [TS]

  advancements of special-effects has [TS]

  really made some of these unfilmable [TS]

  sci-fi movies filmed yet but and you [TS]

  know we saw with Lord of the Rings and [TS]

  and it goes from there I i'm skeptical [TS]

  ironical reforma could be ok but they [TS]

  probably you know make it as you know [TS]

  actually possible but really it's like [TS]

  people in a big too [TS]

  taking a scary elevator is sort of what [TS]

  that movie will screw it up but it's [TS]

  just fascinating because it's been in [TS]

  development hell for so long that you [TS]

  like and how you're the point where i [TS]

  can't possibly be good but you just want [TS]

  to see it get film just finally make it [TS]

  so we can all get mad at it move on [TS]

  yeah I'm interested to see they are [TS]

  supposedly may also making a movie of [TS]

  john scalzi these old man's war the old [TS]

  man's war wolfgang petersen i think is [TS]

  making it which is an interesting note [TS]

  that the skull see thing I you know [TS]

  those are good books that whole series [TS]

  is really good and I can see how that [TS]

  could be a pretty cool pretty cool movie [TS]

  because again you got action you've got [TS]

  the whole kind of war backdrop and [TS]

  you've got some interesting character [TS]

  stories about these old people who [TS]

  become young people so that deadly [TS]

  threat cocoon but with guns yeah with [TS]

  the end big blue super strong soldier [TS]

  people and aliens and guns yeah it's [TS]

  great it's great it's a conspiratorial [TS]

  meets cocoon that's how you pick uh [TS]

  that's why they're making it i think [TS]

  it's because somebody said hey remember [TS]

  that cocoon not amici wilford brimley [TS]

  could do that with guns [TS]

  that's right yeah actually if you just [TS]

  given them all guns in that movie I [TS]

  might have watched that you know the [TS]

  best [TS]

  speaking of movies made it our books [TS]

  into movies the firm [TS]

  I you know I'm not going to say anything [TS]

  positive about the movie or the book [TS]

  other than to say that in the firm [TS]

  wilford brimley is kicked to death by [TS]

  Tom Cruise kicked to death [TS]

  it's the right thing to do and it takes [TS]

  you way to do it is just up and on that [TS]

  note thank you everybody for joining me [TS]

  on this on this exciting podcast about [TS]

  movies and books and how they hate each [TS]

  other must fight to the death or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you thank you i [TS]

  think the the book was better than this [TS]

  pocket [TS]

  alright John siracusa thank you thank [TS]

  you Jason had more'n thank you for [TS]

  bringing your deep knowledge of Hudson [TS]

  Hawk novel say thank you Jason thanks [TS]

  for listening to [TS]

  upper bowl you are you impressed us with [TS]

  your 42 stick until next time goodnight [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  and on that note i'm kicking to death at [TS]

  wilford brimley in the firm based on the [TS]

  fine John Grisham novel i have the same [TS]

  area the novelization not the actual [TS]

  novel you read the novelization [TS]

  excellent access by will forever haunt [TS]

  ya [TS]

  Oh audiofly were fairly and in the novel [TS]

  with the wilford brimley character he [TS]

  kicks the Tom Cruise current you did not [TS]

  yeah there's a little uh they change it [TS]

  up like a continuity error strange very [TS]

  strange the novelization of the [TS]

  audiobook of the novelization of the [TS]

  movie of the novel fire was excellent i [TS]

  I'm actually not planning on listening [TS]

  to this podcast instant-read [TS]

  novelization actually that would be [TS]

  great i'd love to see a novelization of [TS]

  this podcast oh you warded that oil for [TS]

  this one night last week there's no plot [TS]

  where it went well there's that there's [TS]

  a hole through line about about Scott [TS]

  and the Scientologists true and when [TS]

  when parents Anthony writes it it'll [TS]

  just leap up it's like he's actually the [TS]

  more like the davinci cojiro peers and [TS]

  he's going to mobilize the entire series [TS]

  of podcast episodes we've done and the [TS]

  first one will be really good and then [TS]

  after that it's just gonna be the same [TS]

  one over and over again podcast get the [TS]

  audiobook of the podcast that's the best [TS]

  one the audiobook of the pot [TS]

  novelization of the podcast that [TS]

  dramatic reading of the incomparable [TS]

  podcast who would be our reader Stephen [TS]

  Freeman who I like that nipsey Russell [TS]