The Incomparable

27: Coal Mound Sex Scene

 

  the incomparable podcast number 27 mar [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

  and I call this meeting of the book club [TS]

  to order and as last time our book club [TS]

  remains I dwindled to three but now we [TS]

  remain at three we didn't lose anybody [TS]

  this isn't a horror movie where they [TS]

  pick us off one by one or at least not [TS]

  yet yet so there's me the voice you [TS]

  heard is Glenn fleischmann claim thanks [TS]

  for not dying in the interim and reading [TS]

  the book thank you for not bury me in a [TS]

  shallow grave as promised [TS]

  yes and also joining us is of course the [TS]

  heart of the podcast Scott McNulty I [TS]

  always thought I was the spleen of the [TS]

  podcast yeah the gizzard have the [TS]

  podcast that's been that's right all [TS]

  right so I'm Jason snow and i am your [TS]

  host for the incomparable podcast and [TS]

  the book club and we're going to talk [TS]

  today about a book that was actually [TS]

  mentioned by Scott McNulty on the very [TS]

  first incomparable podcast right [TS]

  it just takes us a long time to get the [TS]

  face yeah well it you know for us to all [TS]

  read the book or at least all by all I [TS]

  mean the three of us may even be the [TS]

  people who are literate has used the [TS]

  word to read [TS]

  that's right so so the book is the dream [TS]

  of perpetual motion by dexter Palmer [TS]

  very interesting book i'm not sure where [TS]

  to start we should probably summarize [TS]

  what this book is Scott you want to take [TS]

  a crack at sort of what the book is [TS]

  about on a broad scale sure I so it's [TS]

  it's the main character is a guy named [TS]

  Harold Winslow I think that's yes okay [TS]

  and he hit it so it has a framing story [TS]

  that takes place in a Zeppelin yes it's [TS]

  not really feeling still check no [TS]

  because it keeps coming back and forth [TS]

  you sort of start and end there but [TS]

  there's also it keeps cutting to it in [TS]

  the middle at various points exactly so [TS]

  i guess i guess the rest of the stories [TS]

  and flashback I guess exactly so in the [TS]

  chronologic the chronological you know [TS]

  flow of the book begin a present where [TS]

  Harold Winslow is trapped on a Zeppelin [TS]

  that contains a perpetual motion machine [TS]

  apparently that keeps it afloat [TS]

  but he has a sneaking suspicion that it [TS]

  is failing and he's going to crash and [TS]

  he's writing his life story basically on [TS]

  this Zeppelin and explains over the [TS]

  course of the book why in fact he's [TS]

  trapped in a Zeppelin and you find out [TS]

  his dealings with a character named [TS]

  prospero taligent who is a guess his [TS]

  counterpart dinosaur his nemesis not [TS]

  really insist that he is the alleged [TS]

  nemesis allegedly the constructed [TS]

  nemesis right right he's an [TS]

  industrialist and inventor and his [TS]

  frozen corpse is stored on the Zeppelin [TS]

  it [TS]

  that's not a spoiler amazing on all that [TS]

  is not hot and he has a daughter who is [TS]

  I guess kind of a love interest may be [TS]

  called Miranda and so the story is [TS]

  really Harold and maran about their the [TS]

  relationship between Harold and Miranda [TS]

  and how Prospero interacts kind of sets [TS]

  in motion a series of events that leads [TS]

  to the beginning of the book through to [TS]

  the end of the book right make any sense [TS]

  know that it was very good [TS]

  that's yes well well set and added the [TS]

  author set in fact and the setting of in [TS]

  the flashback is is we'll get to that [TS]

  Glenn is is zero ville which is a [TS]

  fictional city in the 20th century but [TS]

  it's not the twentieth centuries we've [TS]

  come to know it's this I guess you could [TS]

  say steampunky kind of you know it's [TS]

  it's a it's the future is viewed from [TS]

  the past kind of thing there are there [TS]

  are there was an age of miracles which [TS]

  is passed and now things are more modern [TS]

  but their modern in a very strange way [TS]

  where there are mechanical men and other [TS]

  strange inventions that seems to have [TS]

  all been created by this prospero [TS]

  taligent who is AAA enigma of a [TS]

  character [TS]

  yes he's a very mysterious guy its its [TS]

  steampunk it's like it's like we're you [TS]

  know they have computers and the [TS]

  Internet ostensibly and combustion [TS]

  engines but everyone wears little tiny [TS]

  round glasses to the style inside this [TS]

  through the style aesthetic style and [TS]

  description of things that makes it [TS]

  sound like a sort of eighteenth-century [TS]

  steampunk [TS]

  nice entry steampunk you know veneer and [TS]

  yet all sorts of modern stuff is there [TS]

  too it's just there's not plenty things [TS]

  are sort of in short supply that people [TS]

  are all starving so it's not precisely [TS]

  it's a dystopian but it's not thoroughly [TS]

  horrible it's just it's just different [TS]

  oh i wouldnĂ­t i read the the sort of [TS]

  city of zero available had you know it [TS]

  was it's like the movies movies that are [TS]

  set in in the early 20th century the [TS]

  late 19th century where it sort of well [TS]

  we don't have a lot but we've got [TS]

  plucked by golly it was that one thing [TS]

  there's nothing economy our main [TS]

  character our antihero can be employed [TS]

  as a greeting card slogan writer what [TS]

  sort of hilarious [TS]

  by the way as the greeting card slogan [TS]

  writer that is weights described in [TS]

  which he and his colleagues write them [TS]

  is precisely the way in which America [TS]

  Online used to construct its advertising [TS]

  slogans about a decade ago and i'm not [TS]

  kidding like the description reading [TS]

  this I knew a guy who was involved in [TS]

  creating it you're doing a be testing [TS]

  where you test two versions of something [TS]

  are many versions of something to see [TS]

  what gets people to click on offers and [TS]

  the process by which the greeting [TS]

  Harvard you know get well in anniversary [TS]

  holiday stuff is composed in the factory [TS]

  for which mr. Winslow works is is really [TS]

  i mean almost identical to what i welded [TS]

  I i wonder if you work today well that's [TS]

  what time it strikes what struck me [TS]

  about the greeting card company which is [TS]

  an interesting sort of at the beginning [TS]

  we we meet him and he's working in the [TS]

  greeting card company sort of you get [TS]

  the sense he's a he's a failed writer [TS]

  and we actually then flashback I guess [TS]

  further and talk about his childhood and [TS]

  what's led him to this point what struck [TS]

  me about it is is have working in the [TS]

  magazine industry the you end up getting [TS]

  very displaced in time where you're [TS]

  working on your holiday gift guide in [TS]

  the summertime we have a summer intern [TS]

  this year who was working on our holiday [TS]

  guide which always seems insane but [TS]

  that's the way you have to do it now at [TS]

  max black world magazine you decorate [TS]

  the office for the season in which the [TS]

  publications are coming out right [TS]

  because right now we're all correctly [TS]

  it's August in your office [TS]

  well that that is one of the amusing [TS]

  things about the about the greeting card [TS]

  companies that they like pipe in the the [TS]

  cold air in the middle of summer and [TS]

  make everybody freeze and they put up [TS]

  Chris [TS]

  with decorations but anyway I've lived [TS]

  that sort of displacement where your [TS]

  head is in the holidays and it's August [TS]

  so I thought that was I thought that was [TS]

  a strange little little bit this was [TS]

  this book was written by dr. Palmer [TS]

  while he was what I guess [TS]

  procrastinating from doing his his his [TS]

  PhD thesis at you know which i think is [TS]

  kind of interesting so you not written [TS]

  by a young guy written by a guy who's [TS]

  probably you know 30 or a little bit [TS]

  over 30 and and so we probably had some [TS]

  interesting life experiences that he [TS]

  kind of poured into this so it's in the [TS]

  modern ones too like he obviously has [TS]

  some dot-com experience because there's [TS]

  so many aspects of this that legacy idea [TS]

  what AOL thing that greeted the magazine [TS]

  things like some part of access to [TS]

  publications online things where he's [TS]

  retelling a story there's a bit in which [TS]

  he's trying to explain something to his [TS]

  sister by drawing diagrams on cards it's [TS]

  a marvelous but we should talk about [TS]

  more that whole part of town but the the [TS]

  notion of using sort of like PowerPoint [TS]

  presentations and using simplified [TS]

  things that try to explain everything to [TS]

  get people to buy into ideas is very [TS]

  taut commies so there's definitely it's [TS]

  like a steampunk feel it's like this is [TS]

  what happened if if we had steampunk and [TS]

  the 2001 dot-com collapse actually cause [TS]

  like the collapse of society as a whole [TS]

  and i read somewhere that Dexter Palmer [TS]

  was I don't know if he still is employed [TS]

  writing questions for the s80 yes yes oh [TS]

  well that's the thing that's where the [TS]

  question thing comes from because it's [TS]

  that process of recia ova like through [TS]

  the crucible you come up with an idea [TS]

  and it has looked up by other people and [TS]

  crunched is something that is possibly [TS]

  recognizable to your original but has to [TS]

  be acceptable to these arbiters that are [TS]

  fought far higher levels above you [TS]

  so one of the strange things about [TS]

  setting this book is that we have this [TS]

  like I said it's the early 20th century [TS]

  basically and it's the indeed the age of [TS]

  miracles has passed but now there's this [TS]

  industrial age that's led by [TS]

  industrialists and inventors like like [TS]

  prospero taligent except what what the [TS]

  event is so strange like the when when [TS]

  when young Harold Winslow well I guess [TS]

  there's a whole Willy Wonka whole [TS]

  Charlie and the Chocolate Factory thing [TS]

  happening here to where a young Harold [TS]

  slow is at a carnival where we're [TS]

  horrible things are happening to his [TS]

  sister by the way I mean there's so much [TS]

  there is too much although she's a she's [TS]

  a participant in that too [TS]

  she is she got three dollars out of it [TS]

  she should have held out for more [TS]

  according to his father three dollars in [TS]

  the tunnel of love but he passes he [TS]

  passes a test he walks away from the [TS]

  rest of the carnival one goes up into [TS]

  this viewing chamber where he these two [TS]

  guys show him the the tower and they [TS]

  showed me Miranda out on her balcony on [TS]

  the tower and and then he basically [TS]

  through this sort of like test that he [TS]

  passes which is again a very roald dahl [TS]

  kind of thing right there eight is very [TS]

  cruel test also IDK yet as a demon [TS]

  appears at his house and that's sort of [TS]

  a robotic demon that wanders into his [TS]

  house and then sparks itself there for a [TS]

  week so strange and then eventually [TS]

  wakes up unfurls its wings and flies him [TS]

  to the top of the tower it's a [TS]

  terrifying terrifying scenes and flying [TS]

  in this beautiful way or jet packs like [TS]

  it squeezes and practically the death as [TS]

  he hurtles through the aircraft to land [TS]

  in spanish on this roof unfortunately [TS]

  none of the children are killed in the [TS]

  process [TS]

  well it turns out the more ways all got [TS]

  demons and the girls all got angels and [TS]

  so that's what we're doing that had been [TS]

  Shanna no no not at all i wanted to [TS]

  bring up a really good point your Kafka [TS]

  let's bring a cop good because that's my [TS]

  release it in time for Kafka it's Africa [TS]

  it's always time for Kafka it's and I'm [TS]

  play the cop car horn it was right in [TS]

  the car before we like to mention Kafka [TS]

  actually zakappa belt so I back in high [TS]

  school teacher said to me in a class [TS]

  that in every coffee story things are [TS]

  going along normally with the exception [TS]

  of let's say the metamorphosis which the [TS]

  main character awakes to find himself [TS]

  transformed into a giant cockroach with [TS]

  the exception of that in every Kafka [TS]

  short story [TS]

  things seem sort of normal and then a [TS]

  bell rings or some transitional sound or [TS]

  thing happens and then you go into the [TS]

  mind of the unconscious and everything [TS]

  is bizarre horses come out of this tiny [TS]

  opening and whatever and so same thing [TS]

  is true like not that the world is very [TS]

  normal and 0 ville but it's this he goes [TS]

  through a door [TS]

  because he's the one who was going to go [TS]

  through that door and then his world is [TS]

  never the same like that one decision he [TS]

  made that point he took in which he sees [TS]

  unseeable things in this telescope and [TS]

  views you know this brand that [TS]

  transforms in life into what you know [TS]

  essentially plays out until the end of [TS]

  the book at the beginning and end and [TS]

  the interesting thing is that that point [TS]

  happens towards the beginning of the [TS]

  book but he the character is already [TS]

  past that point because the book is a [TS]

  flashback right so write my book [TS]

  actually begins at that point but that [TS]

  point happens happens later in the book [TS]

  at one of the one of the things i think [TS]

  appropriately enough to mention now that [TS]

  i thought was fascinating about the [TS]

  beginning of this book is that he [TS]

  discusses it [TS]

  oh just directly he discusses how this [TS]

  is the story of how he got to be himself [TS]

  and I've actually it's one of the the [TS]

  highlights that I made in this book is [TS]

  we've got decided that the only way to [TS]

  make sense of our existences is to set [TS]

  the stories of our lives down on paper [TS]

  to try to make one tale that shows how [TS]

  the 20th century turned Harold Winslow [TS]

  into Harold Winslow into Harold Winslow [TS]

  into me and how the end it's interesting [TS]

  because that's really how he views it is [TS]

  that there's the guy who's on the [TS]

  Zeppelin and he he looks back on his [TS]

  life and he said well I'm not the same [TS]

  guy who had the adventures with Miranda [TS]

  and I'm not the same guy who was the kid [TS]

  at the telescope but it is all his life [TS]

  and and I thought that was really [TS]

  interesting that he's he's talking about [TS]

  you know these are the events that that [TS]

  string together in my life and then you [TS]

  know they're chopped up almost like [TS]

  they're from different people's lives [TS]

  but they're not it's the one guy and [TS]

  that theme is further explored when a at [TS]

  the end of the book a Harold is going [TS]

  and thinking he's going to save Miranda [TS]

  and he encounters the portrait maker job [TS]

  it is to create a so prospero taligent [TS]

  who has a weird relationship with his [TS]

  daughter [TS]

  yeah just at least has hired this [TS]

  sculptor to create the perfect [TS]

  representation of Miranda right and so [TS]

  over the course of 25 years he just [TS]

  continually create sculpture after [TS]

  sculpture of [TS]

  Brenda trying to capture the perfect [TS]

  representation and he he gets one and he [TS]

  shows it to Prospero and Prospero says [TS]

  you'll get your money I'll pay you for [TS]

  what I've contracted but you have [TS]

  captured miranda is she was six months [TS]

  ago now that she is now and so that [TS]

  whole theme of kind of people changing [TS]

  and you can never freeze time you have [TS]

  to continually go forward and everyone [TS]

  keeps changing I think runs through the [TS]

  book in many ways right right although [TS]

  in the end I suppose you depending on [TS]

  how you view it you could say that they [TS]

  they did finally succeed but only a [TS]

  horrible horrible fast well I want to [TS]

  back up to the different sort of [TS]

  metaphor a mechanism all right to which [TS]

  is that you know obviously this is [TS]

  supposed to be you know he's using [TS]

  character names from the tempest from [TS]

  shakespeare's the tempest and re-do our [TS]

  listeners I'm sure are familiar with the [TS]

  play I've seen multiple productions of [TS]

  it and it's you know it's one of I think [TS]

  Shakespeare's most interesting plays [TS]

  written if i remember it was it was his [TS]

  last play was near the end of his life [TS]

  believed to be the last plane as you [TS]

  wrote by himself [TS]

  yes and it's fascinating because it's um [TS]

  it's you know it's got great it takes [TS]

  place someone island but it's got this [TS]

  great scope of of magic intensity of [TS]

  relationship to the father-daughter [TS]

  there's the dignified missing mother as [TS]

  always there's a man taking all his [TS]

  powers and throwing them away [TS]

  imagine the entire all set six seasons [TS]

  of lost squash it down to one play that [TS]

  sort of it isn't that like until the [TS]

  shed and so so probably no such a [TS]

  tempest The Tempest is an incredible [TS]

  treasure trove that authors have [TS]

  plundered and alluded to for you know [TS]

  hundreds of years you know at a [TS]

  prosperous books is a fascinating as [TS]

  peter greenaway almost unwatchable as [TS]

  most of greenways work but insightful [TS]

  into different aspects of the [TS]

  personality of the music music magician [TS]

  the Creator the snow sexual being the [TS]

  relationship of a parent child's role so [TS]

  it's this great source material and I [TS]

  think that's one of the things that I I [TS]

  think he does [TS]

  Palmer does best is he's not a slave to [TS]

  the plot of the play and as you read the [TS]

  book further you realize that this isn't [TS]

  just an accent [TS]

  it's not the the novelist dexter Palmer [TS]

  imposing his will on a narrative [TS]

  structure try to recast in fact as you [TS]

  get further in the book you realize that [TS]

  his character prospero taligent who has [TS]

  imposed his will inside of the book on [TS]

  the character asset that's a great [TS]

  conceit that we don't know if his name [TS]

  was originally pasta Prospero he does [TS]

  not recall in the book he talks at some [TS]

  point about your coming to being that [TS]

  into existence as an adult he does not [TS]

  recall having a child is not believe he [TS]

  had 1i which goes back to the whole idea [TS]

  that you you know I'm not the same [TS]

  person as that person in fact here's [TS]

  Glenn to your point they're one of the [TS]

  lines that i highlighted in the book is [TS]

  is when Harold is talking to his sister [TS]

  and he mentions prospero taligent she [TS]

  says now he probably named himself that [TS]

  he was probably a teenager looking [TS]

  through a book of Shakespeare place or [TS]

  something [TS]

  doing a homework assignment and he [TS]

  pointed his finger at a page and said [TS]

  there that's the name I want and that's [TS]

  person i'm going to pretend to be any [TS]

  called himself telligent because he [TS]

  likes failed Apple IBM joint programming [TS]

  that was my thinking yes exactly who [TS]

  doesn't [TS]

  so the play does not for my structural [TS]

  narrative now i'm in infected is get [TS]

  counter purposes with the play that the [TS]

  narrative the book and you see that this [TS]

  is part of Prospero taligent as the [TS]

  puppet master as trying to fulfill a [TS]

  destiny as a magician as creating [TS]

  himself as a magician who can accomplish [TS]

  modern miracles is the only man left [TS]

  apparently in that world who can do that [TS]

  and by doing so he's trying to reform [TS]

  the world into his own image and using [TS]

  the names like Caliban and Miranda and [TS]

  creating a giant tower that is island in [TS]

  which you can create conditions of [TS]

  nature and illusion in the room that [TS]

  Miranda plays and all of these things go [TS]

  into into that built into that that to [TS]

  the character stealing the story as [TS]

  opposed to the novelist imposing it [TS]

  right and and the critical point that [TS]

  you know so we mentioned that Harold has [TS]

  a demon appears that heralds home and [TS]

  takes them to this party and at that [TS]

  party that Prospero is having for [TS]

  Miranda he has his gift in quotes to the [TS]

  children at the party is [TS]

  a hundred children he promises that he [TS]

  will give them their hearts desire which [TS]

  is in fact not what they might want but [TS]

  what he feels that they really want [TS]

  so he tells these all the kids that well [TS]

  he's but he's right he's right it is [TS]

  treated horrible horrible stuff that the [TS]

  children can predict what if someone [TS]

  plucked that idea out of your mind and [TS]

  said the thing that you want most even [TS]

  the things you can't express you would [TS]

  never express to someone else is the [TS]

  thing that you'll get that that's a [TS]

  curse not on a reward [TS]

  yeah he's it's creepy and he he then [TS]

  proceeded to give that gift a court not [TS]

  immediately to all the children but over [TS]

  the the entire span of their lives till [TS]

  the point at which Harold is the only [TS]

  one who hasn't yet received his heart's [TS]

  desire because Prospero has something [TS]

  very particular planned for Harold which [TS]

  leads into also some of the strange [TS]

  things that happen where we see the two [TS]

  men from the telescope again and there's [TS]

  a fake kidnapping blend it [TS]

  we think it's well it is fake isn't it [TS]

  yeah there's a fake kidnapping and then [TS]

  there's a friend you know Harold just [TS]

  put in a position where he can rescue [TS]

  Miranda and and at that point in [TS]

  hindsight Prospero says that was the [TS]

  moment when you were the happiest you've [TS]

  got to make a decision to save Miranda [TS]

  and of course the sad sad irony is that [TS]

  he didn't make any decisions [TS]

  it was completely fabricated it felt as [TS]

  if the entire thing is setup and yet [TS]

  that's his that's his happiest moment is [TS]

  when he finally made a decision to save [TS]

  her and he wasn't saving her and it [TS]

  wasn't really his decision to make but [TS]

  there's that moment where he sort of [TS]

  hesitates and his is pondering making [TS]

  that decision that the prosper later [TS]

  says that that was your moment he [TS]

  hesitates for a full five minutes while [TS]

  the guys are like stalling in the other [TS]

  room and arguing with each other [TS]

  another thing in that in a sort of [TS]

  latter part of the of the novel that i [TS]

  thought was fascinating was the idea [TS]

  that the there's a a rebellion against [TS]

  prosper intelligent and his creations [TS]

  we're a bunch of guys dress up like [TS]

  mechanical men but they're not there [TS]

  guys in mechanical men outfits and then [TS]

  I just going to be making of the Tin Man [TS]

  yeah I killed those disgusting people up [TS]

  it's like mobs of guys dressed up like [TS]

  the Tin Man beating the crap out of [TS]

  everybody and handwriting sorcerers [TS]

  apprentice thing like intelligent [TS]

  creates this role for his men to create [TS]

  this you know it's almost like colleges [TS]

  doing you know murder mysteries a [TS]

  for-hire like he gets his staff to to [TS]

  act out the roles he's doing it but he [TS]

  doesn't actually I think about it he's [TS]

  got people acting out rules all the time [TS]

  and every story prospero taligent is a [TS]

  storyteller even though in the book what [TS]

  he does is he's creating machinery and [TS]

  wealth and manipulating things but [TS]

  that's true in the play to that Prospero [TS]

  tell stories his words have power become [TS]

  reality because he is the magician same [TS]

  role here just with technology instead [TS]

  of ostensibly instead of magic but so [TS]

  Prospero you know sets these men a task [TS]

  but then one of them gets the idea that [TS]

  this is what it should be that he's lost [TS]

  sight of these it doesn't even matter [TS]

  anymore whether he's playing the role or [TS]

  it's real it has become real he's [TS]

  transcended this role that was given to [TS]

  him and he creates this mass movement [TS]

  even while Prospero is telling another [TS]

  story that drives people insane when and [TS]

  angers the entire world against him on [TS]

  you've got you've got so Prospero tells [TS]

  his story we have this book which is the [TS]

  story as told by harold as he's writing [TS]

  it while he's on the Zeppelin he Harold [TS]

  himself that is sort of viewed as a [TS]

  failed writer who wanted to be a wanted [TS]

  to be a novelist and told that 222 [TS]

  Prospero at the birthday party but he [TS]

  ends up being a greeting card writer [TS]

  instead and and then with all that going [TS]

  on there's also this other funny moment [TS]

  where at one point at a particularly [TS]

  dreadful party [TS]

  Harold is introduced to another young [TS]

  gentleman who wants to be a writer named [TS]

  dexter Palmer all right right with this [TS]

  very post tedious being afraid [TS]

  incredibly boring yes if I don't I love [TS]

  that I you know that say i love the [TS]

  that's like the literary equivalent of [TS]

  alfred hitchcock appearing in a cameo [TS]

  and is in this bill but i love that Paul [TS]

  summer is merciless to his namesake in' [TS]

  in the book he's a just an incredibly [TS]

  boring college guy that has nothing [TS]

  interesting to say and that everybody is [TS]

  trying to get away from and i would like [TS]

  to talk about women will be talking [TS]

  about women [TS]

  oh my sweet that's why everybody does a [TS]

  podcast right as is to talk about women [TS]

  actually well I won't talk about the [TS]

  generative function i want to be all you [TS]

  know deconstructionist 90 days lit crit [TS]

  type but not precisely but I don't want [TS]

  to talk about you don't want to talk [TS]

  about the themes of the above [TS]

  storytellers in the writers or you know [TS]

  we we covered that so i can check that [TS]

  box is checked that one up now we can [TS]

  talk without generating function [TS]

  generator function is usually assigned [TS]

  to him even though it is a writer Lee [TS]

  thing right [TS]

  Prospero being the magician in the play [TS]

  in in the tempest Prospero has to defeat [TS]

  that was sicker acts which kills her and [TS]

  or puts her locks into it no kills her [TS]

  sort of steals her son who is then hates [TS]

  him his daughter Miranda supplants [TS]

  Caliban was this awful creature and Iran [TS]

  is pretty and Prospero has taken the [TS]

  generative function from the witch and [TS]

  now as a male has sort of two generative [TS]

  functions is the function of magic and [TS]

  he has the you know literal organ of [TS]

  generation right so I'm being very [TS]

  liquid but it's true and I think I [TS]

  wouldn't argue that Palmer's influenced [TS]

  by some of these same ideas because in [TS]

  the book there are no mothers of course [TS]

  Winslow's mother is gone [TS]

  she's been transformed his father tells [TS]

  these insane stories we have to turn [TS]

  into a pillar of salt but she probably [TS]

  just ran away his sister is crazy [TS]

  his sister's friends are insane and [TS]

  ultimately lead to her spoiler horn [TS]

  right spoiler letters of eyes [TS]

  yes sort of and you can talk about this [TS]

  book without spoilers [TS]

  yeah there's also put in her answer has [TS]

  no mother ostensibly we don't know of [TS]

  any mother she's adopted and Miranda [TS]

  herself is an incredibly odd duck as a [TS]

  woman she's not allowed to express her [TS]

  generating function so there's all of [TS]

  this like there's no women all the women [TS]

  are crazy or all the women are being [TS]

  suppressed me Lock this little girl [TS]

  pattern and then I find one of most [TS]

  interesting underdeveloped characters in [TS]

  the book is Ophelia one of his [TS]

  co-workers I was gonna send ya a little [TS]

  feeling she's like six foot tall and [TS]

  beautiful and creative and she's the [TS]

  only [TS]

  the optimistic person in the book right [TS]

  so impressed with any hope and as a [TS]

  result they're sort of ridiculous even [TS]

  though she could have this marvelous [TS]

  like she's in the wrong time cityplace [TS]

  novel and she's she's also she repels [TS]

  the advances of the idiot men who she [TS]

  works with and and yeah when you [TS]

  mentioned we mentioned no women in the [TS]

  book I was gonna say well there is a [TS]

  filia and she's you know speaking of [TS]

  characters named for Shakespeare plays [TS]

  and but she's and she's not like the [TS]

  other female characters and it's not [TS]

  like anybody else in the book basically [TS]

  that's true she's awesome i love you i [TS]

  like the book of her life and positive [TS]

  novel in which there's creativity and [TS]

  she's living a I want all the history of [TS]

  affiliate because she is interesting I [TS]

  mean that is part of the problem with [TS]

  the novel for me is that is that you [TS]

  start out ice usually start when i read [TS]

  a book I whether it's nonfiction and [TS]

  fiction i assume there will likely be [TS]

  interesting characters and possibly [TS]

  likable ones but when i finish this book [TS]

  I wasn't sure that I liked except for [TS]

  feel perhaps anybody in it at all and [TS]

  and that I always find that disturbing [TS]

  phenomenon that I get to the end I'm [TS]

  like oh I really wasn't even the where [TS]

  my sympathies were with one of the other [TS]

  like Winslow is such an antihero that I [TS]

  don't even like him at the end really [TS]

  not much Scott are you blown away by the [TS]

  lens analysis I I beach less I was [TS]

  trying to think if there are any [TS]

  characters in the book that I like I [TS]

  mean I like I kind of like prospero [TS]

  taligent even though I know he's not [TS]

  you're not supposed to like him but I [TS]

  feel sorry for him and like him at the [TS]

  same time because he wants to he spent [TS]

  so much time building the future and [TS]

  then he decides and this has been [TS]

  probably good and so he wants to be [TS]

  frozen for a hundred years it in a [TS]

  machine that he builds around by [TS]

  sacrificing his daughter but the machine [TS]

  is failing so his lifework is amounts to [TS]

  nothing and one assumes at the end [TS]

  Harold tells us that hairline cracks are [TS]

  appearing around the glass that in [TS]

  pieces the the frozen body uh Prospero [TS]

  so you you know that it [TS]

  things are not going to end well for [TS]

  anybody so it's kind of sad that he [TS]

  spent so much time trying to improve the [TS]

  world and he does he I don't be improved [TS]

  and nobody tried to any kind of turns it [TS]

  into this this horrible place that no [TS]

  one is happy and and you know [TS]

  mechanical men are going running rampant [TS]

  and all the mobs of the mobs of the fake [TS]

  mechanical man are reaching the rooftop [TS]

  of his tower so that basically people [TS]

  are rebelling against his technology as [TS]

  he's wants to depart on the Zeppelin but [TS]

  he asked to be shot dead first so that [TS]

  he can then be cryogenically frozen when [TS]

  you see and it's all I've it's all [TS]

  falling apart but in the end the [TS]

  perpetual motion machine is running down [TS]

  its not a perpetual motion machine in [TS]

  the end his his cryogenic chamber is [TS]

  failing so it all it you know it all [TS]

  comes apart 44 prosper despite all of [TS]

  his best intense [TS]

  oh and we should mention his other [TS]

  creation Caliban who is basically before [TS]

  before that I want to start us back to [TS]

  the generative function thing is that [TS]

  yes please let's see that they've been [TS]

  met with Mencius ok so this is no but [TS]

  this is I think this is intended i mean [TS]

  there's a lot of a whip cream style [TS]

  stuff in the books I think he's trying [TS]

  to get a reading that is something like [TS]

  this when you know it when prosperous [TS]

  seizes the generative function right [TS]

  he's gotten you know women produce [TS]

  babies men are supposed to start the [TS]

  process and that's it in the most [TS]

  superficial way can render that right [TS]

  and Prospero taligent by having sees [TS]

  that function bye-bye to generate [TS]

  everything generates is imperfect he [TS]

  cannot create his childhood officer he [TS]

  cannot create perfection of her he must [TS]

  destroy her to create his wrong in [TS]

  perfect vision his dynamos fail his [TS]

  Zeppelin fails his plans ultimately come [TS]

  to not because as a man he's not allowed [TS]

  to create things that are new [TS]

  I mean that's the structure which allows [TS]

  criticism occurs in and I think that's [TS]

  intentional that he lacks the you know [TS]

  empathy he lacks not just love women [TS]

  feelings but he lacks the component [TS]

  there's no partnership with it he is a [TS]

  Dominator he's trying to take control is [TS]

  trying to seize from nature or whatever [TS]

  and it is inevitably going to fail as a [TS]

  result and I mean that's set up also [TS]

  early in the book [TS]

  hair hat Harold is listening to a radio [TS]

  in his bed and he's flipping through [TS]

  channels and we hear bits and pieces of [TS]

  the broadcast and one of the broadcast [TS]

  is coming from the top of television [TS]

  tower where Prospero is unveiling a an [TS]

  airship that he thinks they've gotten [TS]

  the kinks worked out of and so the mayor [TS]

  is 0v land like mrs. 0 billboard the the [TS]

  aircraft and you know pageantry and it [TS]

  then explodes and jeans they are all [TS]

  died and prospers like my bad [TS]

  so hehe forgotten already [TS]

  yeah it's not good in there other was [TS]

  onnn in that same scene there is on the [TS]

  radio there's an interview where a [TS]

  presenter is talking to some scientists [TS]

  and he's like oh we've just created this [TS]

  drink that you drink and it will give [TS]

  you a full meal and you don't have to [TS]

  worry and the woman's like oh that's [TS]

  amazing and so she drinks it and she [TS]

  says is I taste the steak and the guys [TS]

  like oh yeah that's what you're supposed [TS]

  to taste and she says oh I feel so full [TS]

  and the scientists like yes it works [TS]

  well and then she says oh my god [TS]

  physical / full what have you done to me [TS]

  that the transmission ends which i think [TS]

  is very well really wanna thank you [TS]

  Willy Wonka again we're getting you know [TS]

  it's not that not accidental [TS]

  no no notnot there's definitely that yet [TS]

  again failure you know nature trying to [TS]

  subvert nature the failure you cannot [TS]

  make things you can even there's a [TS]

  tyrosine and typesetting shop near and [TS]

  dear to my heart of course [TS]

  so even though they have the internet [TS]

  there apparently still setting type by [TS]

  hand which i love with LED type so it's [TS]

  great contrasts even though i may be [TS]

  doing that in a classroom taking right [TS]

  now I'm doing that purposely not as a [TS]

  commercial venture and I robot is [TS]

  ironically i've seen you contributed [TS]

  ironically when my fingers are crushed [TS]

  in the rollers those are ironic fingers [TS]

  being crushed by the spread of [TS]

  Technology March the midst of the scene [TS]

  with the keys where Harold job is to sit [TS]

  there to make sure that typesetting [TS]

  metal men don't go insane or berserk [TS]

  while they're doing routine projects [TS]

  overnight is many tunes and here's [TS]

  Miranda broadcasting but again it's like [TS]

  it's just this nothing can be nothing [TS]

  goes right in the book even you know [TS]

  television hasn't really improved [TS]

  everyone's life in fact he sort of [TS]

  increasingly ruined everyone's life in [TS]

  the world by automating functions that [TS]

  were performed by [TS]

  fuckers that now I have no jobs and he's [TS]

  not seen as a force of good not just [TS]

  that he's evil and I sort of beyond [TS]

  morality by being you know and so in [TS]

  charge of things but he's just not [TS]

  actually really helping anybody not even [TS]

  himself in the end and to get a title of [TS]

  the book not to bring it all the way [TS]

  around to that but it's the dream of [TS]

  perpetual motion right and it right away [TS]

  we're told that the perpetual motion [TS]

  machine is probably although it's been [TS]

  promised no no it's a professional [TS]

  motion machine it really it's gonna just [TS]

  keep on running [TS]

  Harold is up there in this episode [TS]

  saying it's not know I'm getting closer [TS]

  to the ground here so it that the very [TS]

  dream of perpetual motion is a failure [TS]

  it and it is the sort of cat the [TS]

  crowning achievement of Prospero [TS]

  intelligence high aspirations and [TS]

  bandaged it is the crowning failure of [TS]

  his life [TS]

  oh i think there's a mystery encoded in [TS]

  that part 2 I wanted to ask you fellows [TS]

  because somewhere around two-thirds away [TS]

  in the book uh there's a point at which [TS]

  the book i think becomes enormously [TS]

  better become sort of an action story [TS]

  and I and I really zoom through the rest [TS]

  of the book at that point I think it's [TS]

  about this point it's 10 years before [TS]

  the Zeppelin's seen if i'm remembering [TS]

  right and I the there's a report that [TS]

  comes out this is a prospectus [TS]

  television just told the staff of his [TS]

  company that he is working on you know [TS]

  devoting his aims to creating a [TS]

  perpetual motion machine and was [TS]

  thinking machines machines really fought [TS]

  and remembering that right i don't [TS]

  remember but I think these are key [TS]

  points because at the end of the book as [TS]

  is revealed [TS]

  Harold believes that Miranda has been [TS]

  transformed she's been physically [TS]

  transformed by a process is want to [TS]

  describe because words are killing [TS]

  things that by describing he destroys [TS]

  the thing that's been created again with [TS]

  you know the generative sup and so she [TS]

  may be the perpetual motion machine and [TS]

  although she is running down we don't [TS]

  know about what process she works but I [TS]

  thought part of it was hidden in there [TS]

  was the announcement that was made a [TS]

  leak from inside the company i assumed [TS]

  from the very first moment I open this [TS]

  book when i first read about Miranda [TS]

  being extensively bodyless he cannot [TS]

  find his don't know where she's in the [TS]

  Zeppelin she's talking continuously [TS]

  without cease and he will not speak to [TS]

  her when it will read that part of like [TS]

  oh well prosper is probably turned into [TS]

  her into some kind of [TS]

  machine brain and she's running the [TS]

  Zeppelin that's the great secret and at [TS]

  the end of the book i was like maybe not [TS]

  like well maybe that was what supposed [TS]

  to be intense she's not only become this [TS]

  creature that is beyond description that [TS]

  maybe breathe hydrogen for all Harold [TS]

  knows or understands but that she is [TS]

  also mechanical what do you think about [TS]

  that my reading too much in it does [TS]

  create a mechanical Miranda when they're [TS]

  uh here since the playroom right and [TS]

  Harold Miranda play together in this [TS]

  playroom and Harold's favorite part is [TS]

  when so Prospero also has sentence [TS]

  mechanical monsters in for them to fight [TS]

  in you know so they can pretend to fight [TS]

  him and Harold protects Miranda and at [TS]

  one point Harold comes across Miranda [TS]

  and she's crying and she says don't [TS]

  touch me don't touch me and she's [TS]

  ripping out her hair and bleeding all [TS]

  over and Harold doesn't know what to do [TS]

  and then Miranda peeks out from behind a [TS]

  tree and says silly you were trying to [TS]

  save the monster has a great moment so I [TS]

  mean clearly he could have created a [TS]

  mechanical Miranda and but it will take [TS]

  it wherever Miranda came from though I [TS]

  mean by the end she is essentially his [TS]

  creation because he's right he's really [TS]

  he's taken her apart and turned her into [TS]

  the dr his his ultimate intention them [TS]

  at the perpetual motion machine which [TS]

  which is you know his control he doesn't [TS]

  want to change he doesn't want to become [TS]

  a woman that doesn't go so well and so [TS]

  then he he decides he's gonna transform [TS]

  her into something else which you know [TS]

  apparently doesn't go so well either [TS]

  although Glenn it's something you [TS]

  mentioned you know the way the bookends [TS]

  is that Harold starts he says hello to [TS]

  Miranda right which has refused to speak [TS]

  to her the entire time and that's all [TS]

  she wants so there is that question to [TS]

  at the end is is you know is that a is [TS]

  that important is that a transformative [TS]

  act that that may be what's going on in [TS]

  the Zeppelin you know is happening [TS]

  because he refuses to speak to her and [TS]

  acknowledge her presence [TS]

  oh so that's a very good i hadn't [TS]

  thought about that she's running down [TS]

  because right that you need the [TS]

  interplay that's my prosper wanted him [TS]

  on board he didn't need Harold to be on [TS]

  board he wanted to fill his dream but [TS]

  he'd already sorted fulfilled [TS]

  is you know dearest wish earlier sort of [TS]

  what he says the happiest you've been I [TS]

  mean I like the whole bit more [TS]

  prosperous halogen says I'm not giving [TS]

  you what you want i'm giving you it was [TS]

  he says I'm not giving you something [TS]

  makes you happy i'm giving you what you [TS]

  want which is that for ya [TS]

  praying everything so prosperous setup [TS]

  that Harold doesn't want to save Miranda [TS]

  he wants that moment where he's about to [TS]

  save marantz right and so that's why [TS]

  he's on the Zeppelin he can never find [TS]

  her [TS]

  he knows she's there oh he's always been [TS]

  continually exactly [TS]

  well it is also by the way the [TS]

  mechanical thing I was thinking there's [TS]

  a part when he and the portrait maker [TS]

  prosper in the portrait maker are [TS]

  setting 18 months disassembling [TS]

  physically disassembling Brandon doing [TS]

  terrible things to her as they say he [TS]

  says at some point the portrait maker [TS]

  describes prosperous saying like well [TS]

  now now you have FX about the [TS]

  information sent matrix you know mean [TS]

  essentially the brain and I'm thinking [TS]

  well that's the point at which they have [TS]

  eliminated her that they've you know [TS]

  they've disassembled Miranda the point [TS]

  that they have removed to her brain [TS]

  maybe they digitize that maybe they've [TS]

  done something but that's inevitable we [TS]

  don't know but where is transformed into [TS]

  something different i'm thinking that [TS]

  it's not something as simple as he made [TS]

  her an Android but he took her out of [TS]

  the realm of you know pure physicality [TS]

  to transcend into you know this flying [TS]

  machine whatever it does being the [TS]

  impossible perpetual motion machine and [TS]

  I think you know thinking about this now [TS]

  Prospero has spent his entire life [TS]

  changing the world so that he could stop [TS]

  it right because everything he wants to [TS]

  stop Miranda from growing up and he [TS]

  wants to stop himself from dying so he's [TS]

  constantly using change in order to [TS]

  freeze a moment in time [TS]

  that's very good I have a degree in [TS]

  English Oh Bravo my degree is in [TS]

  pretentiousness kid yourself Martin [TS]

  upside-down arts I'm sorry [TS]

  same thing so as the guy with the [TS]

  communication degree i will not [TS]

  communicate to you in this book know [TS]

  this book is is is hard rowing at some [TS]

  points right i mean i-i would find that [TS]

  it was I would read a chapter and i [TS]

  would still have 20 more minutes on my [TS]

  bus ride and i would say to myself I [TS]

  I can't read another chapter oh good you [TS]

  2i I the hardest time getting through [TS]

  the first two-thirds to three-quarters [TS]

  on this book it it wasn't as if i was [TS]

  having a hard time reading the chapter [TS]

  it's just after a chapter was complete [TS]

  they were so much in it and I felt [TS]

  almost exhausted like I can't [TS]

  ya know I can't do more of this right [TS]

  now because it's it's you know it's very [TS]

  dense at points i think actually [TS]

  beautifully written although at that [TS]

  point that you could argue over written [TS]

  but I i but i really liked that he was [TS]

  you know it it's not often you read a [TS]

  book that that where the author is [TS]

  trying so hard to write interesting [TS]

  things in interesting ways and I really [TS]

  appreciated it and at moments I was [TS]

  really taken by the beauty of what he [TS]

  was writing just the way he was writing [TS]

  it but I would you know it was so it was [TS]

  not a slog in the sense that i was in [TS]

  the middle of a chapter and I with my [TS]

  eyes are crossing and I just couldn't [TS]

  bear to go on and I get to the end and [TS]

  be like wow I need to I i'm not going to [TS]

  read another one till tomorrow because I [TS]

  need to take a little break and think [TS]

  about what I just what i just read so [TS]

  that goes on and you end and it does [TS]

  pick up as you go I think that's true [TS]

  Glenn that that that things start to [TS]

  move a little bit faster i kept waiting [TS]

  for more Zeppelin I wanted you know it's [TS]

  me I wanted more Zeppelin's but then at [TS]

  the very end when you're reaching the [TS]

  climax and it's literally as Harold is [TS]

  climbing to the top of the tower that we [TS]

  have these two encounters the giant male [TS]

  tower i'm sorry the message any member [TS]

  of your piercing the sky its you have a [TS]

  sec you'll and yes we got it back [TS]

  I didn't get that uh they he's trying to [TS]

  make the boy Palmer we're uh so so he's [TS]

  ascending it the tower and we have these [TS]

  two encounters with these guys who tell [TS]

  stories and they're kinda long they're [TS]

  fascinating but there they basically the [TS]

  plot is paused so that we can go back in [TS]

  time from a different perspective and [TS]

  you've mentioned the one which is the [TS]

  portrait maker who creates these [TS]

  sculptures and then eventually aids and [TS]

  abets Prospero in the modification of [TS]

  Miranda into the perpetual motion [TS]

  machine but there's also the guy who [TS]

  works in like the coal pit [TS]

  oh my god alone is not controlled fish [TS]

  floor yet the coal pit being of course [TS]

  at the top of the building a sensible [TS]

  place orders from or something that's [TS]

  where you would put [TS]

  the culture i put i put all of my yeah [TS]

  kool my smoke like probably workers are [TS]

  always on the hunt Rossler i'm not on [TS]

  the top floors of the building but [TS]

  anyway it that when we haven't talked [TS]

  about that that's another I mean you [TS]

  know you grind the story to hold a [TS]

  little bit to a halt [TS]

  but that was that story seems to be [TS]

  basically the story of the room the [TS]

  truth of Miranda at least as much of a [TS]

  truth is Miranda was allowed to have [TS]

  which is but she has these repeated [TS]

  sexual liaisons with the the guy who [TS]

  works in the coal fire pit room whatever [TS]

  it is and i thought it was interesting [TS]

  that we we hear that story and then we [TS]

  hear the story about you know the the [TS]

  perfectionist vision of Prospero and how [TS]

  he wants to have Miranda appear and it's [TS]

  preceded by the story that's really the [TS]

  real down-and-dirty story of a guy who's [TS]

  you know covered in coal dust and and [TS]

  this girl comes to him and they take a [TS]

  tumble in the in the piles of coal and [TS]

  how over and over again covered in cold [TS]

  and it's just sort of fascinating under [TS]

  rid of a hot sex scene about making love [TS]

  on a cold mountain that's pretty [TS]

  you haven't you haven't lived checkin [TS]

  there are many men who have a call here [TS]

  comal tax check finally I can check that [TS]

  one off the Zeppelin's and the coal [TS]

  mound sex scene home if that doesn't get [TS]

  you to buy this book I don't know what's [TS]

  going on hey we missed a if I may [TS]

  interject as having to do a stream talk [TS]

  about Astrid liaison III she's on my [TS]

  list it so Harold sister Astrid who is a [TS]

  an artist like a performance artist who [TS]

  is like Ariel Ariel from the play that's [TS]

  the sprite the magical sprite in the [TS]

  play right well done well played okay [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  and she's an artist and she's surrounded [TS]

  she's surrounded by absolutely horrible [TS]

  horrible coast of RT people and actually [TS]

  i loved i love those scenes and they [TS]

  they can make your eyes cross because he [TS]

  doesn't just say you know they said its [TS]

  usual pretentious crap that people say [TS]

  that these things he has the pages of [TS]

  dialogue of the pretentious crap he [TS]

  writes the pretentious craft for this [TS]

  and it's it's and i loved it because it [TS]

  made me laugh so much because I went to [TS]

  I I like i said i have a communication [TS]

  degree and it's the kind of degree you [TS]

  get when you hear people talk like the [TS]

  people in ad asteroids party and I [TS]

  actually if I can if I can quote from it [TS]

  briefly Glenn if you only on me but I [TS]

  just point out your art communications [TS]

  and english i think each of us knows [TS]

  precisely the particular flavor of bull [TS]

  yes yes involved but accidents doing [TS]

  here is liberating language from the [TS]

  patriarchy is this how critics talk [TS]

  Harold's idea of an art critic of [TS]

  someone who wanders through a gallery in [TS]

  waves his arm in the general direction [TS]

  of a painting while saying notice the [TS]

  diagonal Astrid Charmaine says uh to [TS]

  Harold realizes that we live in a world [TS]

  in which and enduring patriarchal [TS]

  hegemony there's my favorite word from [TS]

  comm class has transformed the woman's [TS]

  voice into a commodity x reprimanding [TS]

  her own language and giving it a body as [TS]

  Astrid has done here she embraces that [TS]

  patriarchal desire to commodify while [TS]

  subversively reaping the benefits of [TS]

  that commodification oh that is so [TS]

  perfect it's also accurate if you strip [TS]

  all the other individuals from it's not [TS]

  a description it's not BS i mean it is [TS]

  it is it is phrased in the right [TS]

  language and yet she's not saying [TS]

  nonsense she is saying exactly what [TS]

  astronauts doing so asteroids art ends [TS]

  up being something that she sort of [TS]

  lifts from Harold in their conversation [TS]

  in the silence bar which we also should [TS]

  talk about this bar but before we get to [TS]

  the silence bar it's fast because she [TS]

  ends up building [TS]

  eh-eh-eh-eh sound sound sculpture [TS]

  because Carol goes on this rant that you [TS]

  know again I mean there's so much here [TS]

  that we keep we keep bouncing around he [TS]

  goes on this rant about sounds and how [TS]

  there are more sounds and every day as [TS]

  the industry creates new things that [TS]

  there are more sounds at some point he's [TS]

  concerned that that all the sounds will [TS]

  cancel each other out and then we'll be [TS]

  billions of machines everywhere and it [TS]

  will be completely silent because it's [TS]

  nothing but noise and chance he wants to [TS]

  shut out all the sound that's a kind of [TS]

  a go a theme here that's how he goes up [TS]

  in the telescope it will escape the [TS]

  noise of the heart [TS]

  Prospero calls back to that when he says [TS]

  this is how you get away from the noise [TS]

  myself one is perfectly quiet and of [TS]

  course over time that breaks down the [TS]

  noise creeps into the supplement to as [TS]

  the perpetual motion machine and as the [TS]

  Harold Harold has a series of recurring [TS]

  nightmares where the virgin queen is [TS]

  going to commit suicide and he only he [TS]

  can save her and then the first dream he [TS]

  supposed to say the exact word that will [TS]

  save her but it can't think of the word [TS]

  and then the second iteration of the [TS]

  dream she's at the edge [TS]

  he's about to say something he's trying [TS]

  to say something to her and then he [TS]

  notices an exact a negative of himself [TS]

  who is saying what he's saying backwards [TS]

  and canceling it out so that virgin [TS]

  queen cannot hear anything [TS]

  well in that you know Astros is pre [TS]

  capitulating to get recapitulated she is [TS]

  auntie capitulating what happens to [TS]

  miranda is that it although but asteroid [TS]

  has the means of our own destruction [TS]

  your own hands and she regrets it [TS]

  ostensibly that she you know she she [TS]

  uses the pizza delivery guy which I love [TS]

  again the mail setting action into [TS]

  motion [TS]

  yes I wasn't coming also let's also talk [TS]

  about how I i love the the as we have [TS]

  all pretentious and lick lick pretty [TS]

  here [TS]

  the unpretentious thing that kicks off [TS]

  the pretentious suicidal our experiment [TS]

  is she orders a pizza and I think it's a [TS]

  delivery boy opens the door and kills [TS]

  her and sets off the whole thing and i [TS]

  love that juxtaposition that's so great [TS]

  that it's just this you know Pete kind [TS]

  of a well he's kind of hot for her knee [TS]

  it and he's really excited to meet her [TS]

  and and then he opened the door and she [TS]

  dies but in that's the thing is that the [TS]

  AI I think that's sort of part of the [TS]

  asteroid is brilliant also is like [TS]

  Astrid well i guess i should ask you to [TS]

  feel you because you know i should say [TS]

  that's funny i was saying originally [TS]

  there are no you know there's very few [TS]

  women in this book but all that Miranda [TS]

  astron filia are all aspects and all [TS]

  fascinating Astra's hoot because she's [TS]

  slightly insane she speaks the truth [TS]

  she's does things that are unacceptable [TS]

  and she just doesn't matter is what she [TS]

  means to do so when she built this [TS]

  unbelievable contraption that's what [TS]

  that's what do cancel noise out creates [TS]

  this thing and then then burns her alive [TS]

  encasing her in bronze [TS]

  at the same time and she's freezes the [TS]

  moment right the noise stops and she [TS]

  stops aging she's even internally [TS]

  preserved in the same form because his [TS]

  bronze cheating on bronze point Pope [TS]

  poured over her and she's permanently [TS]

  fixed ok so here's my question i read [TS]

  this a few times and I can't tell i'm [TS]

  sure maybe just meant for it to be [TS]

  ambiguous I don't say that there is an [TS]

  answer but you know her pretentious [TS]

  friend tells the police she said I don't [TS]

  have the phrase that better be the [TS]

  smiling but buttered spleen right isn't [TS]

  that what she says right and the police [TS]

  say well the pizza delivery guy said she [TS]

  said stop the machine [TS]

  yes meeting stop the sense that she [TS]

  regretted did she get some friends [TS]

  locked into the cabin how is that my rat [TS]

  here for hours with her but she told the [TS]

  police the delivery guy to come in so my [TS]

  question is did she regretted the last [TS]

  moment over to your friends kill her [TS]

  I I the way I read it is that she [TS]

  regretted at the last minute like [TS]

  anybody would it's the it's that you [TS]

  know she comes up with this great idea [TS]

  but face at the moment of her own death [TS]

  she begs to not die and it's too late [TS]

  the the art world is looking on and it's [TS]

  time for her performance butter lean and [TS]

  that becomes part of the performance [TS]

  right that'll load up so doesn't it but [TS]

  it's clean now [TS]

  oh that reminds you that I I wonder [TS]

  myself so let's talk about the salad bar [TS]

  if you don't mind I was that let us know [TS]

  another nice another nice thing the they [TS]

  go to a dingo part of town where people [TS]

  don't communicate is that is that right [TS]

  except no you're not but poorly right [TS]

  that they communicate with written and [TS]

  hand gestures right is that it yeah and [TS]

  I think that's it's the whole idea again [TS]

  of that the people want to escape the [TS]

  constant sounds that are around them so [TS]

  you go to the silent bar so they don't [TS]

  have to hear one another but then Astrid [TS]

  wanders in and just starts talking [TS]

  really loudly and and everybody is [TS]

  looking at her and is offended but but [TS]

  Harold's got his little pile of cards [TS]

  and he starts drawing around and and and [TS]

  and that ends up being the source of her [TS]

  inspiration for the for the art project [TS]

  but first she's first she takes the [TS]

  cards and then turns it into a paintings [TS]

  or statements right which is what gets [TS]

  her the show to start with [TS]

  right right that where he meets dexter [TS]

  Palmer be perfect and here's all the [TS]

  pretentious dialogue about asteroids are [TS]

  you know it's funny as we talked about [TS]

  this book I like this book more [TS]

  unpacking it into all of its component [TS]

  elements much as if I were redesigning [TS]

  Miranda to suit my own images then I did [TS]

  when actually reading and i think i just [TS]

  want to ask if you either of you enjoyed [TS]

  this book or if you liked it i should [TS]

  say that's a good question gland did you [TS]

  did you like I mean I've already said [TS]

  that it was a bit of a trial at times [TS]

  for me to get through a chapter and then [TS]

  i have to take a break but did you like [TS]

  reading it I did not enjoy reading the [TS]

  book until we got to the last like i was [TS]

  saying last quarter so and then i zoom [TS]

  through that it felt like a different [TS]

  book even though informant was the same [TS]

  but i think he finally had to set all [TS]

  the machinery in is I think the first [TS]

  three quarters of the book he's building [TS]

  the mechanism [TS]

  I'm sorry I'm being so pretentious on [TS]

  his pockets he's building convective and [TS]

  he's putting all the clockwork into [TS]

  position and telling us all the pieces [TS]

  that have to come together and you're [TS]

  sitting there wondering when does this [TS]

  whole watch start ticking or does it [TS]

  fall to the floor as a bunch of gears [TS]

  and then once that sets the emotions and [TS]

  i'm like i zoom through i mean i think [TS]

  it took me five or six week literally in [TS]

  like several page increments to get [TS]

  first through the first three quarters [TS]

  and the last part i read in a you know [TS]

  an hour to so I I wouldn't say I like [TS]

  reading it but I'm i like thinking about [TS]

  the book more after having read it then [TS]

  I did Rita you know interpreting it [TS]

  while i read it [TS]

  yeah i think i would say the same thing [TS]

  is that is that while I was reading it I [TS]

  really enjoyed the writing it's not [TS]

  every book i read it's actually pretty [TS]

  rare that I sit there and I think wow [TS]

  this is you know this is beautifully [TS]

  written and that was really what I kept [TS]

  thinking is this is a weird book but [TS]

  it's kind of beautiful and the and the [TS]

  writing is beautiful and the setting is [TS]

  so detailed and strange there it is a [TS]

  little off-putting and the characters [TS]

  are kind of off-putting and like i said [TS]

  i add it was so dense at times that I [TS]

  felt like I needed to take a break and [TS]

  not just kind of go to the next chapter [TS]

  but I needed to actually like decompress [TS]

  a little bit before i can and unpack [TS]

  what I just read before I could move on [TS]

  which is much more of the kind of I [TS]

  think you get that from a book that you [TS]

  were assigned in college and a little [TS]

  class it is that kind of feeling of this [TS]

  is not just a page-turner this there's a [TS]

  lot of stuff going on here [TS]

  but in the end i did like it and you [TS]

  know what I told my wife i was reading [TS]

  it is i'm reading this crazy book but [TS]

  it's kind of beautiful but it's really [TS]

  really strange not like anything I've [TS]

  really ever read although it's got [TS]

  pieces of the bunch of different stuff [TS]

  right all the way down to two charlie [TS]

  and the chocolate factory so I too liked [TS]

  it [TS]

  Scott what about you well I think that [TS]

  it was so I read it when it like a [TS]

  couple months after first came out last [TS]

  so probably about a year ago today in [TS]

  fact and i thought it was the best book [TS]

  I've read all year i really enjoyed it [TS]

  and I do not read books generally just [TS]

  because I don't but I in preparation for [TS]

  this podcast i reread about 75% of the [TS]

  book and I enjoyed it even more [TS]

  I i think that it is just that I think [TS]

  it's a great book but i don't and i [TS]

  recommend it to people but kind of Edo [TS]

  yeah haha hesitantly because i don't [TS]

  think that it is for everyone [TS]

  like I told my wife she had to read it [TS]

  and she read the first like 10 pages and [TS]

  said I'm not reading this book i think [TS]

  they had more dead than just fair i read [TS]

  this book for you Scott I read this book [TS]

  for you [TS]

  Thank You Glenn but I really really [TS]

  liked it [TS]

  yes well I i liked it i I definitely did [TS]

  like it but it is a challenge and it is [TS]

  not the kind of book I yeah that i would [TS]

  recommend for somebody who just wants a [TS]

  fun book to read I only if you want a [TS]

  fun book to read [TS]

  don't read this pie i'm glad that you [TS]

  suggested it though because it is also [TS]

  not the kind of book i'll often stop and [TS]

  get stalled in books like this like I [TS]

  did and the notion that we're actually [TS]

  to talk about it made me read it and I'm [TS]

  glad I did I mean even books and I hate [TS]

  and sometimes often glad i read because [TS]

  if they give me fodder for thought [TS]

  that's good enough but I love with new [TS]

  ideas new ways picking this book I [TS]

  certainly found fascinating even if I [TS]

  couldn't say exactly like it so I think [TS]

  thank you Scott it's the very definition [TS]

  of a good book club book it's the kind [TS]

  of book that you need to be I think [TS]

  maybe motivated to read a little bit and [TS]

  then have the promise of being able to [TS]

  kind of discuss it and unpack it with a [TS]

  group later because it really i think [TS]

  benefits from walking through all of the [TS]

  different things like we have done here [TS]

  i think i think it really helps because [TS]

  there is so much in there and if you [TS]

  just kind of flip through [TS]

  and then and then move on to the next [TS]

  thing and don't really consider it i [TS]

  think you're missing the best feature of [TS]

  this book which is there's a lot of to [TS]

  come over afterward and there's still a [TS]

  lot of stuff we haven't even talked [TS]

  about [TS]

  I mean there's a there's a lot going on [TS]

  in this book positions only this is only [TS]

  book so far too right [TS]

  i believe so i think it's pretty amazing [TS]

  this is like random there's some s80 [TS]

  test that you have like you may have [TS]

  read his work yes was like Harkaway the [TS]

  car away gone away well that's the only [TS]

  book that's out now I think I told you [TS]

  folks I for Congress article i talked to [TS]

  the car away was a lovely lovely fellow [TS]

  and he said something about having three [TS]

  other novels i think two of them [TS]

  completed that ostensibly we will get to [TS]

  see in print at some point in the near [TS]

  future so one hopes mr Palmer also isn't [TS]

  the same situation that will be more he [TS]

  hasn't shot everything he's ever thought [TS]

  about in a single model and during our [TS]

  Harkaway podcast i gave him a hard time [TS]

  for writing like showing off his writing [TS]

  prowess which i think is in fact what [TS]

  the dream of perpetual motion the entire [TS]

  book is all about really yes that's true [TS]

  and so I liked it in this book so i have [TS]

  i've acknowledging that i am a hypocrite [TS]

  we will now move on to that portion of [TS]

  the show that i like to call what are [TS]

  you reading where I asked the musical [TS]

  question what are you reading Glen what [TS]

  are you reading [TS]

  i am going to briefly mention for things [TS]

  very bright [TS]

  I went back and read Charles use a after [TS]

  Charles you podcast red third-class [TS]

  superhero and I hated the book and we [TS]

  can talk about this another time [TS]

  it's I thought his novel the how to live [TS]

  safely in a science fictional universe [TS]

  from getting the title right i thought [TS]

  was a was fasting and difficult and not [TS]

  necessarily successful third-class [TS]

  superhero has sort of one good story and [TS]

  a bunch of masturbatory exercises in [TS]

  writing that are like how to live safely [TS]

  science fictional universe except much [TS]

  less successful they'll say that about [TS]

  that i'm also reading i started to read [TS]

  have a problem finishing some of the [TS]

  books I've started recently when i get [TS]

  to a point and you know this happened [TS]

  with a with the general perpetual motion [TS]

  where I got through thinking of Scott [TS]

  all the time I got to the book to a [TS]

  point where I liked it so much as much [TS]

  as i did and i'm reading Greg bears hall [TS]

  0 3 which is starting out very tediously [TS]

  about four [TS]

  pages in and I'm yawning and trying to [TS]

  figure out how to get further along and [TS]

  i'm also reading to say nothing of the [TS]

  dog [TS]

  ah thank goodness yes and i find that [TS]

  first part a little heart going but I'm [TS]

  believing that it's going to pick up [TS]

  because there are lots of indications it [TS]

  really is i think i'm getting them [TS]

  through the like in the dictionary [TS]

  definition part in which the structure [TS]

  of the universe is being explained to me [TS]

  and once that's through I feel like [TS]

  there's a story there once they're [TS]

  punting on the cam Ripper you it is gold [TS]

  that we've got a little still in the [TS]

  hospital i'm waiting from to get out [TS]

  that that part and then finally i'm [TS]

  reading a James Tiptree jr. a biography [TS]

  this is a one of the greatest science [TS]

  fiction writers of all time who led a [TS]

  double life who wrote under a male name [TS]

  was thought by many of her peers to be a [TS]

  male that was actually written by Alice [TS]

  B Sheldon who has an extraordinary life [TS]

  story including many trips to Africa [TS]

  with her explorer parents a child in [TS]

  places that no person no European or [TS]

  even outside person ever visited in the [TS]

  early nineteen hundreds extraordinary [TS]

  person extraordinary writer [TS]

  extraordinary depth and I hope we will [TS]

  in the future get enough people to read [TS]

  and I need to reread took trees [TS]

  exquisitely aching stories and and do a [TS]

  podcast about her and I even have a [TS]

  special guest in mind who would [TS]

  participate with us who knows the story [TS]

  is quite well and used to judge the [TS]

  James Tiptree jr. annual awards and [TS]

  that's what I'm very nice [TS]

  Scott what are you reading I am reading [TS]

  less books than Glenn only one because [TS]

  I'm an underachiever apparently it's but [TS]

  it's on 85 kindle the same happened [TS]

  that's true i can read in many different [TS]

  places so i would I reading The Wise [TS]

  Man's Fear which is by by Patrick [TS]

  Rothfuss whatwhat's the wise man's fear [TS]

  the wise man's fear which is a sequel to [TS]

  the name of the wind are the name of the [TS]

  wind and more and if only we were here [TS]

  he loves that book i love that book as [TS]

  well but sadly dan doesn't get to come [TS]

  on the podcast because he didn't read [TS]

  the dream of perpetual motion designer [TS]

  read and now we're told him haha ahead [TS]

  so so it is a highly anticipated sequel [TS]

  it just came out this fantasy this is [TS]

  fantasy [TS]

  this is a you know 900 pages of fantasy [TS]

  Wow [TS]

  and it's okay i'm apparently so i'm [TS]

  looking at amazon.com and the first book [TS]

  came out in 2007 this one came out a [TS]

  couple of days ago so he and i were [TS]

  talking about this yesterday in fact [TS]

  that that it's hard you're an [TS]

  unpublished novelist you're working on a [TS]

  novel for for for 10 years and you [TS]

  publish it and it's a wild success and [TS]

  everybody says where's the next one and [TS]

  you're like guys but took me 10 years [TS]

  exactly what you want what do you mean [TS]

  you want it now [TS]

  may I answered my turn the tables and [TS]

  even say Jason hey Jason what are you [TS]

  reading this week I'm glad you asked [TS]

  that question Michael and I am reading a [TS]

  few things although not as many as you [TS]

  but not as few as Scott is on and i also [TS]

  have a new kindle so I have one more [TS]

  device so I'm now only a hundred meters [TS]

  behind sky 401 keep trying json [TS]

  intention i can catch up [TS]

  I have a guy i've been reading all clear [TS]

  which is the second half of the connie [TS]

  willis novel that began with blackout [TS]

  which is the next book in in this [TS]

  universe that includes to say nothing of [TS]

  the dog [TS]

  ok and and it's it's basically about the [TS]

  Blitz the London Blitz and what I what I [TS]

  would say to the readers who are [TS]

  considering reading it is black marker [TS]

  are one book split into there's nae [TS]

  there's nothing I mean it's one book [TS]

  split in two and i made the mistake of [TS]

  reading the first book and then not [TS]

  reading the second book for several [TS]

  months and I was hopelessly lost and [TS]

  it's taken me a while to remember what [TS]

  happened in the other book so i'd [TS]

  recommend that if you read these books [TS]

  don't wait just blood flow through both [TS]

  of them and considered a gigantic book [TS]

  so that's what i'm reading and i just [TS]

  finished the second book in the [TS]

  Millennium Trilogy Stig Larson's the [TS]

  girl who played with fire [TS]

  I found any of those well so you know [TS]

  they're good but one of the funny things [TS]

  about them is that the guy died he wrote [TS]

  these three novels speaking of people [TS]

  having novels and and and then it in the [TS]

  can is he wrote these three novels and [TS]

  he died and they were published and [TS]

  became wildly successful the problem is [TS]

  i mean not that it's heard his sales [TS]

  obviously and i think i've said this in [TS]

  a previous podcast problem is they [TS]

  really could have used an editor [TS]

  oh god yes and and I feel like they were [TS]

  left untouched because he's dead [TS]

  open and the other thing is the english [TS]

  translation [TS]

  translation [TS]

  I'm sure the translation is problematic [TS]

  there's a wide there's wide condemnation [TS]

  by people are bilingual with the English [TS]

  translation was published especially the [TS]

  first book is really radically not know [TS]

  it's a different but it's the radical [TS]

  changes from the actual sweet another [TS]

  nereo major narrative but like the text [TS]

  and so forth because they wanted the [TS]

  book out so fast and it's kind of a kind [TS]

  of bad compared to how much i would [TS]

  imagine given how successful that they [TS]

  are that maybe at some point they'll [TS]

  retranslate and they might even you know [TS]

  they might even Mitchell edition give it [TS]

  give it and edit right for the penguin [TS]

  classic version because with the Dragon [TS]

  Tattoo one of his many books which you [TS]

  like good comment i mean that [TS]

  translation does not it does not explain [TS]

  the fact that we spend whole paragraphs [TS]

  talking about how much ram is in her [TS]

  nineties her 2001 era powerbook yeah I [TS]

  have realized that i am in fact reading [TS]

  another book if anyone cares i yes [TS]

  please let's look at that we have you [TS]

  been have you been reading these books [TS]

  while we've been talking what is the [TS]

  book Scott it is called so I i spent a [TS]

  while reading the like 13 of the viscous [TS]

  force or key and books or whatever the [TS]

  board Costa get it for so get there or [TS]

  close again I still can't sit bless you [TS]

  and so I got I was overwhelmed by it so [TS]

  i said i need to read something i read a [TS]

  couple of those too but I don't even [TS]

  want to mention that because then yes I [TS]

  read those 2i I needed something [TS]

  completely different so i picked up a [TS]

  book called a thus was a damas murdered [TS]

  which is by Sarah Caldwell and it is [TS]

  about these four lawyers or I guess [TS]

  barristers in 18th century New York no [TS]

  doubt this is like a like nineteen [TS]

  eighties England and yeah they solve [TS]

  mysteries [TS]

  so that's what it is all right great and [TS]

  so next book club and this is a note for [TS]

  all of you listeners out there as well [TS]

  as for people like Dan Moore and who are [TS]

  slackers are not even listening [TS]

  probably not because he's that much of a [TS]

  slacker and he said that he can't he's [TS]

  illiterate so he's unable to UM poor guy [TS]

  vs stories of your life and others by [TS]

  ted chang [TS]

  along with a along with a novella he [TS]

  wrote called the lifecycle of software [TS]

  objects i believe yes which is available [TS]

  online for free and we'll put a link in [TS]

  the show notes on the incomparable [TS]

  dot-com i have the beautiful beautiful [TS]

  slightly expensive print edition of the [TS]

  book because I like him so much I want [TS]

  to buy it ceased being published by [TS]

  small press I believe anything its local [TS]

  here to be in seattle and I bought that [TS]

  and is it's a novella novella but it's [TS]

  um gorgeously illustrated a gorgeous [TS]

  piece of printing so I actually [TS]

  recommend the print book for once [TS]

  all right look I'm looking forward to [TS]

  that discussion because they have many [TS]

  opinions and that's a short story [TS]

  collection so if you're not used to [TS]

  reading short stories i encourage you to [TS]

  give it a try actually one of my [TS]

  favorite things to do every year is by [TS]

  the year's best science fiction short [TS]

  stories collection if you don't usually [TS]

  read short stories I think ted chang it [TS]

  very interesting author i think it's [TS]

  worth reading at the very least if you [TS]

  don't buy stories of your life and [TS]

  others i would encourage you to seek out [TS]

  our are linked to the lifecycle of [TS]

  software objects which will give us [TS]

  somethin me to talk about a little pre [TS]

  little preview i think it's actually not [TS]

  one of his strongest works I i think [TS]

  there's stuff and stories of your life [TS]

  and others that are much better but i [TS]

  can turn [TS]

  yes alright she don't tell anybody and [TS]

  also you should with the story of your [TS]

  life and others persevere through the [TS]

  first story because i did not think the [TS]

  first story was very good i forgot which [TS]

  one it is [TS]

  yes well against both have similar yet i [TS]

  will just mind-blowing seven final [TS]

  things now we'll start we'll talk about [TS]

  it on the next on the next book club [TS]

  podcast so that's your assignment dear [TS]

  reader dear listener list issue can read [TS]

  there's anyone listeners thank you out [TS]

  there and then the only other thing I [TS]

  wanted to do before we before we went [TS]

  away was to remind people I if you've [TS]

  stuck with us this long and you just not [TS]

  tired of us yet that if you go to the [TS]

  incomparable com or to rifftrax dot-com [TS]

  you can see the eye riff that we [TS]

  generated which is 20 minutes of myself [TS]

  Glenn dan Morin and Steve Lutz making [TS]

  fun mystery science theater 3000 style [TS]

  of a sci-fi west [TS]

  turn short from the thirties called The [TS]

  Phantom Empire chapter 5 and I turned [TS]

  out pretty well so it's a dollar on [TS]

  rifftrax com to download and if you [TS]

  don't want to pay a dollar hang out wait [TS]

  around you know in a few months we'll [TS]

  post it for free but for now it's one [TS]

  buck so thank you for this discussion of [TS]

  the dream of perpetual motion guys it [TS]

  was a lot of fun [TS]

  I I mind has been expanded me to mine [TS]

  has been digitised are you a perpetual [TS]

  motion machine now it is alan scott is [TS]

  hollering my computer voice it's coming [TS]

  from inside the computer [TS]

  alright so until next time on that note [TS]

  man-years uplands turn on your perpetual [TS]

  motion machines and Fleischmann thank [TS]

  you very much for being here thank you [TS]

  so much and Scott it's great to have you [TS]

  on the podcast thank you very much for [TS]

  recommending this book and it only took [TS]

  us like six months to get around to well [TS]

  I I'm I thank you both for reading it [TS]

  it's sticky through unlike some I'm like [TS]

  son who shall remain den this is [TS]

  friendly and comfortable podcast of [TS]

  course it has [TS]

  there's nothing else that can compare [TS]

  until next time this jason still saying [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I won't understand this podcast until I [TS]

  listen to the podcast about this podcast [TS]

  explaining it so basically our next [TS]

  podcast should be the podcast about the [TS]

  podcast about the dream of perpetual [TS]

  motion [TS]

  yes [TS]