The Incomparable

20: Everyone`s a Redshirt in Real Life

 

  the incomparable podcast number of [TS]

  Plenty television for january 2011 we [TS]

  are back on the incomparable podcast the [TS]

  topic today is television and in this [TS]

  case we're going to be talking about the [TS]

  AMC TV series which premiered on [TS]

  Halloween and ran for six episodes in [TS]

  its first season the walking dead it was [TS]

  a big hit it's coming back later in 2011 [TS]

  for a second season so we're going to [TS]

  talk about the walking dead based on the [TS]

  comic book written by robert kirkman and [TS]

  called it was called um hello kitty vs [TS]

  mario oh they took some liberties [TS]

  yeah joining me today to discuss hello [TS]

  kitty vs mario are my guests [TS]

  John Syracuse's here hey John hey Jason [TS]

  what's up [TS]

  uh-huh we will see we will see because [TS]

  our other guest is the incomparable [TS]

  Steve let's i was going to say brains [TS]

  but considering that that the source [TS]

  material was hello kitty vs mario i [TS]

  guess i'll be more period of the source [TS]

  material and go with its me I'm spoiler [TS]

  alert Mario in here in the comic Mario [TS]

  wins and kills allocating ah thank God [TS]

  yeah but they changed it for the TV [TS]

  series among other things I didn't even [TS]

  notice Mario in the TV series i'm really [TS]

  just trample all over the source [TS]

  material [TS]

  Mario is he said it but he's a very [TS]

  minor character he saw his office had [TS]

  been you don't see him again that was [TS]

  him that was anyway so the walking dead [TS]

  six episodes I you know huge ratings [TS]

  success for AMC that this is the network [TS]

  that puts on TV series that are [TS]

  critically acclaimed in yet nobody [TS]

  watches like bad men and breaking bad [TS]

  and in this case they have to show that [TS]

  while acclaimed is also actually [TS]

  successful which is kind of surprising [TS]

  given that this is a a TV show about you [TS]

  know hungry zombies and a zombie [TS]

  apocalypse but let's get to the [TS]

  popularity of the comic by asking Jason [TS]

  did you read the comic i did I i have in [TS]

  fact with me here i have walking dead [TS]

  compendium which is I think the first 49 [TS]

  issues of so had you read it before you [TS]

  knew there was going to be TV show made [TS]

  from it [TS]

  yes I had obviously had so do you think [TS]

  I'm trying to gauge how much of the [TS]

  response of the television show is based [TS]

  on all the comics were popular therefore [TS]

  when they heard they were gonna make a [TS]

  TV show I was kind of like they made a [TS]

  spider-man TV show we did like a spider [TS]

  man i love spider-man you're right i WS [TS]

  it's a independent comic it's kind of a [TS]

  cult comics black-and-white is nobody [TS]

  read except for extreme geeks that [TS]

  doesn't explain the popularity i think i [TS]

  think so i think i think they had a [TS]

  really savvy marketing campaign and [TS]

  they'd really talked it up at comic-con [TS]

  and they built some sort of buzz on you [TS]

  know they did all the right kind of [TS]

  pre-show marketing things at the [TS]

  previous four phenomenal yeah but we've [TS]

  seen that you can appeal to that kind of [TS]

  geek audience and and you have a [TS]

  terrible failure ratings wise because [TS]

  it's just not a big enough audience on [TS]

  its own and the fact is that they got [TS]

  they got a lot more than that which i'm [TS]

  not quite sure how they pulled it off [TS]

  but Steve's right that the previews were [TS]

  great and the buzz was good and the [TS]

  reviews were good [TS]

  certainly there's at least some [TS]

  percentage of comic book geeks that got [TS]

  dragged and I mean you guys go doubt i [TS]

  think both of you were amongst those who [TS]

  claim to be not fans of horror in any [TS]

  and i don't know if i miss representing [TS]

  John here but Jason my servants well [TS]

  this debate about what's referred to as [TS]

  horror but yeah in general I would say [TS]

  that I Walking Dead certainly applies [TS]

  I don't know we'll get to that huh I [TS]

  feel like John is almost the host of the [TS]

  he's asking me questions telling us what [TS]

  we'll get to later and I think that's I [TS]

  think that's interesting but it is true [TS]

  I i like the comic i had a you know [TS]

  recommended to me and i found that it [TS]

  was yeah I thought it was I thought it [TS]

  was great although it is you know kind [TS]

  of brutal and there's really gruesome [TS]

  stuff in it but it's a it's it's drama I [TS]

  mean it's not just about the zombies [TS]

  right it it's about it's about the [TS]

  people and in many ways the people are [TS]

  are the problem not the zombies with the [TS]

  background would be a zombie utopia it [TS]

  wasn't for those damn people [TS]

  uh that's that's kind of the classic [TS]

  thing with the zombie films is more [TS]

  often than not that the zombies you know [TS]

  that they play a part but really they're [TS]

  just background for whatever human drama [TS]

  or whatever flyballs of humanity the the [TS]

  filmmaker wants to highlight in Romero [TS]

  in particular used it basically all of [TS]

  his films are some sort of commentary on [TS]

  you know that the flaws of man and [TS]

  consumerism and you know how people fall [TS]

  apart when they're stuck in a room [TS]

  together and they're supposed to work [TS]

  together and yet they can do nothing but [TS]

  the beat up on each other and make a [TS]

  mess of things that there's a lot of [TS]

  bothers me about zombies and that's one [TS]

  of them that their their antagonists [TS]

  that is never a character right like [TS]

  even think some cliched as vampires [TS]

  vampires have motivations and you can [TS]

  you know they can be characters in your [TS]

  story and you can you know but zombies [TS]

  might as well be like bad weather or you [TS]

  know or or disease or men they are kinda [TS]

  that's what that's what I was gonna say [TS]

  zombie stories are man versus nature [TS]

  basically that they you know it the [TS]

  nature is the zombie plague of the [TS]

  zombies are in the background and [TS]

  they're dangerous and they'll kill you [TS]

  but they're there they're serious like a [TS]

  like a tornado or hurricane or something [TS]

  is sort of out of your control and man [TS]

  is helpless to you know to stop it it's [TS]

  just an unstoppable force and how do you [TS]

  deal with it's like whether they can [TS]

  sneak up on you very slowly [TS]

  yeah you know turning around the corner [TS]

  oh my god this tornado I didn't hear the [TS]

  wind even pick up but there is around [TS]

  the corner [TS]

  yeah and then eat your brains so the [TS]

  walking dead series i don't know how we [TS]

  want to work how we want to approach [TS]

  this there are only six episodes in some [TS]

  ways it you know I didn't really feel [TS]

  like a seasoned it felt almost like a [TS]

  miniseries or like the first part of a [TS]

  of a season but i guess that they only [TS]

  had time to shoot six episodes in order [TS]

  to get it on the air when our they [TS]

  intend to do more than six for the [TS]

  second season the envelope there will be [TS]

  13a a more traditional cable seriously [TS]

  you know I i guess i could just throw it [TS]

  out there to start as is you know of the [TS]

  season as a whole and where I guess [TS]

  firing up the sport over here [TS]

  let's talk about the whole season add a [TS]

  couple months to finish watching at the [TS]

  pete's sake you already threw out the [TS]

  cutoff hand so the spoiler horn has to [TS]

  be 10 minutes haha man although there [TS]

  will be a retroactive yeah well I'm you [TS]

  diamond but anybody could have their [TS]

  hand cut off you know one of the zombies [TS]

  you even threw in this direction by [TS]

  claiming it was Mario though so yeah [TS]

  you're right you're right that's right [TS]

  it was actually Luigi that you've done [TS]

  it [TS]

  no no no I I thought it was really [TS]

  interesting that they as a reader of the [TS]

  comic book that the the series does [TS]

  diverge from the comic book and I [TS]

  actually think it's kind of brilliant [TS]

  because they know they've got an [TS]

  audience that has read the source [TS]

  material or will seek it out because [TS]

  they like the show and so by throwing in [TS]

  these some these divergent points from [TS]

  the comic not only are they I think [TS]

  maybe making it shaped better for TV [TS]

  that the plot kind of maybe hangs [TS]

  together better but i haven't I have not [TS]

  read the comics so so explain what if [TS]

  they added say well as well so so I'm [TS]

  you know there's a lot of detail but [TS]

  they focus on like going into Atlanta a [TS]

  couple of times in the comic uh it in a [TS]

  comic Rick goes into atlanta he meets [TS]

  the eye [TS]

  what's his name again with a baseball [TS]

  cap asian guy [TS]

  yeah the korean guy would anyway he [TS]

  meets meets him and they basically saved [TS]

  his bacon and ma and they escape they go [TS]

  back to the the campus that's where they [TS]

  meet everybody and in this we meet the [TS]

  people sooner they have more of an [TS]

  adventure in the in the city the first [TS]

  time they go back to the city they added [TS]

  this character of Merle the kind of [TS]

  awful racist guy who they end up leaving [TS]

  chained up on the roof and he and then [TS]

  he falls off his own hand and gets away [TS]

  I never would've guessed up as I'm like [TS]

  all this galaxy straight out of a comic [TS]

  book i guess i know nothing about comics [TS]

  but he just seemed like a comic book [TS]

  character that you can see is that [TS]

  entire plot shred of them leaving them [TS]

  on the roof completely completely fresh [TS]

  material that's completely fresh Lyle [TS]

  the visit to the CDC to visit the the [TS]

  guy who talks to his computer and [TS]

  presses buttons and does research on all [TS]

  on his own [TS]

  the in the CDC in the last episode is [TS]

  completely off the path of the of the [TS]

  comic that guy doesn't really exist in [TS]

  the comic and then I think the most [TS]

  notable thing is that Rick finds out [TS]

  that his wife and Shane were sleeping [TS]

  together when he was presumed dead very [TS]

  early in the story i don't think they [TS]

  change that just made the character of [TS]

  risk extremely dumb and unobserved it's [TS]

  coming into the camp and everyone else [TS]

  knows and Rises like I think you that's [TS]

  just a storyline that they wanted to [TS]

  defer but but the the fallout of that [TS]

  through various means in the comic [TS]

  spoiler alert for the comic air is that [TS]

  a shame is killed very early on as well [TS]

  and that he's still kicking and at you [TS]

  know so huge some huge divergences at [TS]

  and yet it's also in many ways so much [TS]

  like the comic but somebody read the [TS]

  comic I think that's great because I [TS]

  think I know what's coming but I [TS]

  actually know that I don't that I might [TS]

  know what the the the Ark is in general [TS]

  and would love to see them go to the you [TS]

  know there's a prison that they get to [TS]

  a-1 alright don't spoil I'm just I'm [TS]

  just saying there's a prison they get to [TS]

  one point and there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  stories that take place about you know [TS]

  what's going on the prison and I assume [TS]

  they'll get there but how they get there [TS]

  and what they do when they're there i [TS]

  really don't know and that's great [TS]

  because I i can watch the show while [TS]

  appreciating its relationship to that [TS]

  comic book without actually having it [TS]

  kind of rec the suspense in any way [TS]

  which is it's really it's a nice trick [TS]

  by frank darabont who's the executive [TS]

  producer and Robert Kirkman who's the [TS]

  writer of the comic who worked very [TS]

  closely with them and they actually even [TS]

  wrote one of the six episodes so what is [TS]

  the fact that the comic guy is helping [TS]

  into adapted is that keeping the fanboys [TS]

  at bay screaming that they've you know [TS]

  go off book and although that seems to [TS]

  be the template now because they're [TS]

  doing that with Game of Thrones which is [TS]

  based on the george RR r george RR that [TS]

  was too many R's Martin novels is five [TS]

  bars and very very complex guy is I'm [TS]

  actually excited about Game of Thrones [TS]

  even though I've never read the source [TS]

  material probably never would [TS]

  a good stuff it really good books but [TS]

  what they've done with george RR martin [TS]

  is he's writing an episode of the first [TS]

  season of Game of Thrones or has written [TS]

  and I think there is something to that [TS]

  of a kind of co-opting the creator and [TS]

  having him be involved so that you can't [TS]

  say you bastardized the work because I'm [TS]

  and creator as it as an ambassador of [TS]

  the show then just think about how many [TS]

  adaptation of stephen king has been [TS]

  involved in his own work and they've [TS]

  been off [TS]

  oh so it's not always a Tennessee it so [TS]

  it seems to be in a comic fanboys you [TS]

  run the risk of of having the fanbase [TS]

  turn against the guy [TS]

  if if what he writes ends up being [TS]

  crappy well I think that's always the [TS]

  risk right and i think that with walking [TS]

  dead it paid off in a way that some of [TS]

  the Stephen King stuff for example [TS]

  didn't is walking dead it turns out to [TS]

  hit it's generally liked and so you know [TS]

  everybody's happy and and because it's [TS]

  generally liked and it's doing well the [TS]

  fact that it diverges from the cannon [TS]

  doesn't seem to matter and and it is [TS]

  faithful in many other ways i mean there [TS]

  were shots in it that are just right out [TS]

  of the comics you know Rick and his hat [TS]

  and his uniform and all that I'd love to [TS]

  do that using just waiting to little [TS]

  comic book frame to appear posterized [TS]

  around the still image before they go to [TS]

  commercial right yeah in some ways I [TS]

  think it's Kirkman also working with [TS]

  working with the youth the writers to [TS]

  almost to a revision of his story it's [TS]

  almost like a second draft so you know I [TS]

  I the CDC think I mean the story in the [TS]

  comics starts out around Atlanta and [TS]

  nobody thought or Kirkman didn't think [TS]

  you know there's a whole infectious [TS]

  diseases center in Atlanta that might be [TS]

  relevant and it's so when you watching [TS]

  TV with like of course they go to the [TS]

  CDC but the comic he just didn't think [TS]

  of it so they you know that's a good [TS]

  idea it's like hate [TS]

  I should put that in there so they did [TS]

  pretty sure the CDC is not rigged to [TS]

  explode in a fireball just saying that [TS]

  it would that be awesome that seems like [TS]

  you know they got a little automatic did [TS]

  I imagine it wouldn't look like CGI as [TS]

  rendered by in 20 was yeah it was pretty [TS]

  test pretty deadly awful now I don't see [TS]

  they burnt there was ok [TS]

  they burned their budget on practical [TS]

  make-up effect well that's true that's [TS]

  true so Steve as a as a whole [TS]

  bit of a horror aficionado yes sir how [TS]

  did it how did the show work for you [TS]

  ah it worked great for me in a lot of [TS]

  ways maybe it's just it's a delight to [TS]

  have a weekly show that kind of caters [TS]

  to the sort of niche interest in our [TS]

  which is something I thought I'd never [TS]

  see particularly with this much [TS]

  no legitimate gore and and horror [TS]

  set-pieces it didn't disappoint me in [TS]

  some ways part of what i thought was so [TS]

  great about the idea of having a weekly [TS]

  series on zombies is that I think one of [TS]

  the biggest failings of the of zombie [TS]

  films and and horror films in general is [TS]

  that you've got maybe an hour and a half [TS]

  with the characters and you've got to [TS]

  get to the killing [TS]

  so character development is basically [TS]

  non-existent in your average horror film [TS]

  you know most of the characters get this [TS]

  sort of thumbnail sketch personality and [TS]

  then they're killed off or you know [TS]

  there's one guy that gets a little more [TS]

  screen time and he's the survivor and I [TS]

  figured you know we've got seven hours [TS]

  of material here to work with maybe [TS]

  we'll get a bit more in the realm of a [TS]

  you know getting some more fleshed-out [TS]

  characters that we care about so that we [TS]

  have a bit more concerned about the [TS]

  characters and and we don't want to see [TS]

  them dispatched and and I didn't really [TS]

  get that from the walking dead at least [TS]

  not to the extent that i was hoping i [TS]

  would I you know we still six hours in [TS]

  six hours i feel like you know they're [TS]

  they're still in many ways going through [TS]

  the setup case right and the people we [TS]

  did seed I did sort of feel like they [TS]

  were thumbnail sketches right and it [TS]

  could just simply be that they're trying [TS]

  to get off on the right foot with the [TS]

  fan base and and with the horror fans [TS]

  and and then they can maybe slow down a [TS]

  bit in the second season having [TS]

  successfully sold that one having a jam [TS]

  enough story and 26 episodes to make it [TS]

  feel like there was a story there i [TS]

  think actually hurt them III think you [TS]

  could see that there were there are [TS]

  points where was rushed and i think that [TS]

  in terms of character and sometimes in [TS]

  terms of the plot that that it did feel [TS]

  a little bit like they were they were [TS]

  jamming 13-episode [TS]

  sir or 10 episodes into the six and it [TS]

  just always fit [TS]

  I mean there were a few really nice [TS]

  moments like the the scene in the boat [TS]

  with the two sisters discussing their [TS]

  father and the different approaches he [TS]

  taken to teaching them about fishing and [TS]

  then you turn around you know an hour [TS]

  later and the sisters dead and cycle [TS]

  what the hell is why did i just get [TS]

  invested in that so it's it seems like [TS]

  they're they're still working on finding [TS]

  there pacing yeah I guess I guess [TS]

  they're you know you invite you invested [TS]

  in that because you end up the other [TS]

  sister is still there and now it's this [TS]

  horrible trauma but but yeah I thought [TS]

  was interesting in the last episode one [TS]

  of the characters says I'm just gonna [TS]

  stay in and blow myself up with the guy [TS]

  here and you know what i thought was [TS]

  well I don't know who you are i can't [TS]

  remember your name [TS]

  you wanna sell important her sole [TS]

  character trait that I saw through the [TS]

  previous episodes which she was one that [TS]

  was always like rubbing somebody's back [TS]

  or trying to you know we've lost our [TS]

  masseuse helping the guy you know she's [TS]

  holding the guy's hair while you barf in [TS]

  a bucket is very helpful [TS]

  she's dead yeah it's it seemed kind of [TS]

  you know for the tiny little bit of [TS]

  character that we had for her it seems [TS]

  very out of character for her to decide [TS]

  well you know I can't go on rubbing [TS]

  people it's it's time to put into that [TS]

  time to go time to die i die i did--like [TS]

  i thought the last episode was very [TS]

  interesting and that even after we'd [TS]

  only been had five episodes with with [TS]

  these characters to have them dropped in [TS]

  to this weird world where he's got hot [TS]

  water and electricity and it's clean and [TS]

  there's this guy with his computer [TS]

  you know I what I liked about it was [TS]

  that it was really eerie that even after [TS]

  that short period of time [TS]

  normalcy of the root of something [TS]

  reminds us of the real world you know [TS]

  came a cop came across a strange and [TS]

  creepy [TS]

  although i kinda feel like again six [TS]

  episodes in it doesn't maybe have the [TS]

  impact that would have had 15 18 [TS]

  episodes into finding this little pocket [TS]

  of civilization but i liked it i thought [TS]

  it was weird that you know that they get [TS]

  there and it did I just I thought it was [TS]

  such [TS]

  strange change-of-pace the problem is [TS]

  after five episodes do you need to [TS]

  change of pace that fast [TS]

  it's interesting that that's something [TS]

  that wasn't in the comic because I'm [TS]

  sorry graphic novel [TS]

  no no it's accommodating credits is [TS]

  based on the graphic novel and it's such [TS]

  a lie it was it the you know they [TS]

  eventually bound them up into [TS]

  collections but it's a monthly [TS]

  black-and-white comic book it was never [TS]

  a graphic novel ever [TS]

  ok they're just trying to lend an [TS]

  opportunity to see that it doesn't [TS]

  really deserve exactly if it was a great [TS]

  black and white monthly comic book here [TS]

  ok so it's interesting that the comic [TS]

  didn't have that whole CD segment I it [TS]

  and it makes me gives me the impression [TS]

  that its sole purpose was to allow them [TS]

  to tie up the sixth season are the 6 [TS]

  episode arc of the first season a little [TS]

  milepost of like oh and then they reach [TS]

  the thing and that's interesting and [TS]

  then and that he had never come to you [TS]

  know the whole world presumably is in [TS]

  the turmoil of the zombie apocalypse and [TS]

  you know now there's no hope and they [TS]

  kind of needed to send off i'm not sure [TS]

  what was in the comic at that point I [TS]

  mean obviously it's kind of fun durable [TS]

  based on and what they want to do you [TS]

  know with it with the TV show as opposed [TS]

  to the comic but but I I'd be curious to [TS]

  know what happens at that point in the [TS]

  comic to see if there's just not a clear [TS]

  endpoint for the series there and I [TS]

  don't know I yeah I think I think maybe [TS]

  it's a little hazy and the end up having [TS]

  to abandon the camp and travel on and [TS]

  have other adventures right and I think [TS]

  maybe they wanted a crescendo that [TS]

  wasn't just there's an attack on the [TS]

  camp and a bunch of people died did you [TS]

  did either of you guys get a lost five [TS]

  from that last episode as well I felt [TS]

  like I was watching a the house back in [TS]

  the house / yeah yeah no it'sit's a guy [TS]

  the other you're all of our characters [TS]

  are out in the out in this terrible [TS]

  world on the outside and all of a sudden [TS]

  there's a dude inside a hermetically [TS]

  sealed chamber who's got like running [TS]

  water and and all the comforts of [TS]

  civilization and we're going to that [TS]

  last five they missed it by like a mile [TS]

  well i don't think they were going for [TS]

  but I I mean that's what I felt this [TS]

  like it's like Desmond I mean they're [TS]

  basically going in the hatch for another [TS]

  like you said if you're going to this is [TS]

  a full-length season [TS]

  you wouldn't have gone into and out of [TS]

  that CDC place in one episode there's [TS]

  just no way [TS]

  you know you would have you would have a [TS]

  bigger lead up to it and you would spend [TS]

  at least two episodes in the place on [TS]

  which would have made the impact of the [TS]

  guy you know blowing himself up more and [TS]

  to which you're actually that's not in [TS]

  the comic makes me worry like now that [TS]

  you're telling me how far to the Virgin [TS]

  everything from the comic the fact that [TS]

  the whole CDC wasn't in there uh I guess [TS]

  like I mean I guess it was just like it [TS]

  came in when things sort of cleaned up [TS]

  after itself so it's not going to be an [TS]

  issue but I i had issues with the whole [TS]

  season and and hearing that these things [TS]

  were added to kind of you know tie up [TS]

  those 136 and a little bow makes me [TS]

  worry more for the the next season but [TS]

  we'll see [TS]

  it's it's a judge actually just brought [TS]

  to mind something that now seems a [TS]

  little odd which is that I think just [TS]

  before the the team in the RV shows up [TS]

  at the CDC location wasn't he talking to [TS]

  his monitor and telling it he was [TS]

  considering blowing blowing his brains [TS]

  out the next day right right correct one [TS]

  changes from one to the next today the [TS]

  day that he was due to die in a huge [TS]

  explosion with no pain anyway [TS]

  actually the impression I got was that [TS]

  the by letting the people in and letting [TS]

  them use the facilities he was [TS]

  accelerating the end of the yeah the [TS]

  Scylla it was on creating all the hot [TS]

  water and everything but I thought that [TS]

  you know i thought i was going to ask [TS]

  them specifically not to use too much of [TS]

  via his character was messed up because [TS]

  if he's gonna be like you know a crazy [TS]

  suicidal where he'll lie to them and say [TS]

  you know who I'm a crazy person but I'm [TS]

  going to act normal turnout used too [TS]

  much hot water up now we're all going to [TS]

  die [TS]

  that wasn't his character they didn't [TS]

  play him is crazy he was rational the [TS]

  whole time but he acted like a crazy [TS]

  person you know a rational person would [TS]

  have been more upfront about the [TS]

  situation they were in or whatever and a [TS]

  crazy person would have hit to the end [TS]

  not add any rationale for he was doing [TS]

  so that black character was messed up [TS]

  yeah it looks like in the comic steved [TS]

  answer your question they after they [TS]

  abandon a camp they basically they go [TS]

  they leave their and they're in the [TS]

  neighborhood briefly but there's too [TS]

  many walkers there and then they set out [TS]

  again to go to they end up finding this [TS]

  prison anyway without getting into the [TS]

  details is it a sizable are coming just [TS]

  over the horizon and they [TS]

  yeah I want to get into that yeah i [TS]

  think so so they wanted something to end [TS]

  that wasn't just let's abandon the camp [TS]

  and so they drop in the the CDC thing [TS]

  which wouldn't be bad because the whole [TS]

  the attack on the campus is kind of a [TS]

  big moment I mean it'sit's when they're [TS]

  they no longer have a safe house yeah [TS]

  and doesn't feel like more of a capture [TS]

  them then running away from an explosion [TS]

  behind them as they leap onto Matt's [TS]

  with a blue-screen beyond and had that [TS]

  been episode 6 they could maybe [TS]

  stretched it out a bit and added some of [TS]

  the character development and I so [TS]

  desperately crave well i think i know [TS]

  why they did the CDC thing and I it gets [TS]

  back to my I don't know you can I think [TS]

  you can blame the show for this little [TS]

  bit but a lot of residue with [TS]

  expectations my main complaint about the [TS]

  show so it sounds like you have a [TS]

  unifying theory on the show yeah I have [TS]

  unifying theory for me I didn't know [TS]

  anything about the comic and I saw the [TS]

  ad campaign and it's like you know AMC [TS]

  with that deep gravelly voice guy you [TS]

  know telling you about this series is [TS]

  going to be zombies but when it's going [TS]

  to be serious right and so from the ad [TS]

  campaign what I was thinking was that [TS]

  this was going to be like a gritty [TS]

  realistic not haha fun time not schlocky [TS]

  horror zombie thing you know but like a [TS]

  drama with zombies in it right [TS]

  sci-fi setting type of thing but very [TS]

  you know very grim and dire and [TS]

  realistic pride and prejudice and [TS]

  zombies not quite at and front like in [TS]

  the opening episode that was pretty much [TS]

  the case until basically the the [TS]

  flashback of you know presume beat I'm [TS]

  fine with that the guy walking around [TS]

  around posts on but i'm not really [TS]

  saying anything he's by himself on with [TS]

  that he's in the hospital he wakes up as [TS]

  soon as he like found another human and [TS]

  start having dialogue the series started [TS]

  to go off here so I was like this is not [TS]

  what i was expecting i was expecting [TS]

  it's either going to be zombies have [TS]

  taken over and the world was a big mess [TS]

  and this is a series about how the world [TS]

  is a big best or zombies have taken over [TS]

  and this is the story of a bunch of [TS]

  people who have no idea why and it's [TS]

  realistic and gritty and it's going to [TS]

  be a character drama and the stroke [TS]

  seems to want to have it both ways [TS]

  because the CDC episode was there to say [TS]

  let's tell you about the world you know [TS]

  let's of these people learn about the [TS]

  world in the situation [TS]

  and you know the same thing to do any [TS]

  kind of movie where they have to have at [TS]

  some point some exposition it says and [TS]

  this is you know you've been in your own [TS]

  little world let me tell you what [TS]

  happened in the rest of the world [TS]

  masami's are everywhere and here's how [TS]

  it happened and started this thing and [TS]

  blah blah blah that's a different kind [TS]

  of story then you're a guy you're in the [TS]

  zombie apocalypse you're never going to [TS]

  know what happened to the rest of the [TS]

  world with the point of the zombie [TS]

  apocalypse just one day the zombies [TS]

  everywhere the world went crazy [TS]

  especially if you're in the hospital [TS]

  you don't know what happened and then if [TS]

  you were in the hospital you came out [TS]

  and you met this guy and he's like a [TS]

  zombie took over when you talk to him a [TS]

  little bit more about that way to second [TS]

  zombies took over can you explain to me [TS]

  exactly you know what you're talking [TS]

  about now they never talked about is [TS]

  like okay [TS]

  zombies I'm on the ground I'm okay with [TS]

  that immediately I have no questions for [TS]

  you I have no doubt you know that it [TS]

  just don't get it seemed is not just as [TS]

  condensed it seemed more or less [TS]

  realistic than i wanted so so I'm a [TS]

  little confused because i'm not sure you [TS]

  can't have it both ways yeah I guess see [TS]

  you [TS]

  you either wanted you know if they [TS]

  wanted to be like it was a realistic [TS]

  story of you know what would happen if [TS]

  zombies over numbers are ridiculous [TS]

  anyway but fine [TS]

  I the characters wouldn't be as calm [TS]

  well-adjusted and speak in kind of [TS]

  condensed fiction sound bites as they do [TS]

  here there would be much less confidence [TS]

  much more sloppy meaningless death and [TS]

  much more discussion and doubt about [TS]

  what's going on in these people who seem [TS]

  to seem to be like when a zombie show on [TS]

  this character that your this character [TS]

  let's go [TS]

  well is it isn't that the purpose of [TS]

  having him wake up after it's been a [TS]

  zombie apocalypse for a while is that [TS]

  you know we don't have to see everybody [TS]

  else but he's already had those [TS]

  discussions yeah but the survivors who's [TS]

  to say the survivors are going to rain [TS]

  you know as we've seen from the guys [TS]

  coming into the camera to say the [TS]

  survivors or any more competent than [TS]

  just the lucky ones it's early enough in [TS]

  the zombie apocalypse that it's not like [TS]

  saying we're the ones who are left to [TS]

  the ones who really know how to survive [TS]

  in zombieland now that they are just [TS]

  lucky at this point this is is this an [TS]

  alternate reality where a zombie movies [TS]

  have never existed [TS]

  it strikes me that that they should [TS]

  probably already know pretty much all of [TS]

  the metal zombie tropes you know it's [TS]

  like she had been ahead [TS]

  problem the problem is that all the fans [TS]

  think like we've seen zombie movies and [TS]

  I bet if i was in a zombie apocalypse I [TS]

  would know just what to do but in [TS]

  reality if you know if you're in an [TS]

  actual zombie apocalypse and replace [TS]

  Tommy's with any kind of you know [TS]

  existential threat like weather or the [TS]

  Quaker plague no one actually knows what [TS]

  to do because your emotions overwhelm [TS]

  you and you you know unless you're like [TS]

  a military soldier or something or [TS]

  someone with this type of training you [TS]

  can handle these situations no one's [TS]

  like common collected and I mean you [TS]

  know i'm gonna i wish i had the reality [TS]

  whistle or something like that that was [TS]

  right next to the spoiler home again I'm [TS]

  you know because Johnny it's it's just [TS]

  so it's a show about zombies at and what [TS]

  what is the purpose of any kind of drama [TS]

  its to its to put characters and [TS]

  situations where interesting things how [TS]

  I know I know I i'm not saying it like I [TS]

  i preface this by saying is they're [TS]

  mostly a factor of my expectations and I [TS]

  was I was expecting that this would be a [TS]

  zombie drama that took a realistic [TS]

  gritty approach what it would really be [TS]

  like of zombies took over and less [TS]

  likely NYPD blue of zombie movies yeah [TS]

  that type of thing and if it can't be [TS]

  that the other alternatives to say fine [TS]

  it's not going to be you know that we're [TS]

  not going to go for that type of thing [TS]

  the characters are all going to be our [TS]

  unrealistically well-adjusted and able [TS]

  to handle this these amazing scenarios [TS]

  and just going to have Laurel dramatic [TS]

  things that happened to them they could [TS]

  just what happened in any other [TS]

  situation but the background happens to [TS]

  be zombies and then you if you did that [TS]

  really well you get something like lost [TS]

  where the background is fantastical but [TS]

  the stories are about you know I mommy [TS]

  didn't love me my dad beat me you know [TS]

  i'm still trying to wrap myself my head [TS]

  around unrealistically just I mean that [TS]

  there is a characters in The Walking [TS]

  Dead who are then there's the guy who is [TS]

  digging holes [TS]

  there's the you know there are not like [TS]

  and don't get me started the guy digging [TS]

  holes the guy is not funded under the [TS]

  other guy that the they don't seem to [TS]

  have it together that much I think [TS]

  you're giving them to my friends they [TS]

  seem pretty calm and they don't they [TS]

  don't react to each other or the [TS]

  situation with in ways that real power [TS]

  which again is it's just not the show I [TS]

  was expecting [TS]

  I don't agree at all that they seem [TS]

  pretty calm I i think they all seem [TS]

  pretty messed up and they don't seem [TS]

  calm when they're served in the [TS]

  department store they don't seem like [TS]

  that calm when they're at the camp and [TS]

  even when they're at the camp it's you [TS]

  know you get the sense [TS]

  that's kind of a false calmness because [TS]

  there to there they don't know what else [TS]

  to do right there just kind of trapped [TS]

  there and they look like they were just [TS]

  out camping and why are they think that [TS]

  just hanging out in the woods they're [TS]

  safe because Bobby's can't walk i mean [TS]

  there was I would expect to see much [TS]

  more discussion and argument and chaos [TS]

  about what the correct thing to do was [TS]

  rather than two weeks in the zombie [TS]

  apocalypse settling in a camp [TS]

  no I'm just trying to picture your [TS]

  expectation is a TV show and it strikes [TS]

  me as being kind of a unwatchable [TS]

  shaky-cam screams and people yelling and [TS]

  running around and dying constant [TS]

  arguing it would be more able to be more [TS]

  and like it's like you might as well [TS]

  just put a bunch of people at a giant [TS]

  blender and then watches the finger [TS]

  presses the button and they'll get [TS]

  chopped into little pieces [TS]

  no I think of it this way I at this [TS]

  would be to typical zombie genre things [TS]

  as the wire is too typical stereotypical [TS]

  cop show but he makes a good point [TS]

  though because if you've ever watched [TS]

  the original night of the living dead [TS]

  basically the majority of that movie is [TS]

  exactly that it's a carl hartman yelling [TS]

  and and I just constant argument about [TS]

  what the hell are they gonna do and you [TS]

  know she doing in the basement do we you [TS]

  know we do we board up the doors to [TS]

  waste the the kerosene you know do we [TS]

  run out to get that it's just it's just [TS]

  back and forth arguing throughout the [TS]

  majority of that film interstate with [TS]

  the occasional cut of people in [TS]

  bathrobes wandering around aimlessly out [TS]

  in the yard and if you try to extend [TS]

  that for more than an hour and a half or [TS]

  so I think Jason's right at the thing is [TS]

  for most of the people that doesn't last [TS]

  more than an hour and a half because [TS]

  they died because this to me pregnant [TS]

  zombie bees and their know not everyone [TS]

  is a survival this too can you know kill [TS]

  without worrying about it and bury the [TS]

  dead bodies and you know chop off their [TS]

  heads and like people can't handle that [TS]

  type of thing [TS]

  well so what do we do next week then we [TS]

  have an hour of of 20 other people [TS]

  arguing and then being evil [TS]

  eventually there will be enough you know [TS]

  competent people left but even those [TS]

  competent people be so screwed up that [TS]

  you know it you'll end up with that [TS]

  again i'm not saying this is this is the [TS]

  series they should have made and I'm [TS]

  just saying this is what I expected and [TS]

  how it didn't go over my it didn't match [TS]

  my expectations and going the other way [TS]

  I would say that show a show like lost [TS]

  where like I said they'd they'd have [TS]

  normal you know television drama type [TS]

  things with the fantastical background [TS]

  but they do an amazingly good job and I [TS]

  have to say I think the walking dead was [TS]

  less high quality in terms of the [TS]

  writing and and and plotting then then [TS]

  lost or the early seasons of lost in [TS]

  terms of performing as a regular TV show [TS]

  not the realistic pretty thing that i'm [TS]

  talking about i don't know if you guys [TS]

  agree with that but I I mean not that I [TS]

  thought it was bad but I thought that it [TS]

  wasn't triple-a levels like double-a [TS]

  agree if they have room to stretch out [TS]

  in season two I feel like maybe I can [TS]

  settle back in at as a different kind of [TS]

  show but I felt like the way it was now [TS]

  the the writing acting and story warrant [TS]

  snappy enough for like for another [TS]

  example like the west wing which is [TS]

  ridiculous and silly but it's just so [TS]

  damn snap you're like okay fine I'll go [TS]

  along with you right [TS]

  that's I don't know if there's a in the [TS]

  West wait so okay so basically what [TS]

  you're saying is you expected something [TS]

  at the level of the west wing or the [TS]

  wire west wing downloading a wire [TS]

  reality i I just I just say you're [TS]

  setting the bar so high rate based on no [TS]

  no I'm saying this to separate two [TS]

  separate things that could have been [TS]

  like it could have been a gritty thing [TS]

  like the wire but zombies right or it [TS]

  could have been just a regular double a [TS]

  triple a TV show like you know lost or [TS]

  west wing or whatever and I was given [TS]

  example shows that have flaws like West [TS]

  Wing is ridiculous right on its face but [TS]

  it has enough charm and greatness that [TS]

  you're that you're willing to say all [TS]

  West Wing you know I for one would love [TS]

  to see a scene of two zombies ambling [TS]

  down the street searching for three and [TS]

  swoops around of him wanting at [TS]

  Wentworth and it worked perfectly walk [TS]

  with hobby would say to the other 104 LA [TS]

  her [TS]

  alright but it would Sparkle good [TS]

  dialogue with sparkle so you know I i [TS]

  agree with your point that i do think [TS]

  that this is that the walking dead is [TS]

  not uh at the same level as you know you [TS]

  might expect a you know some of that six [TS]

  episodes I II III think our arguments [TS]

  about the about the show actually showed [TS]

  that it's not an easy thing to do [TS]

  take something smells like a zombie [TS]

  apocalypse and say we're gonna do human [TS]

  drama amid a zombie apocalypse I mean it [TS]

  that's it that's actually kind of a [TS]

  tough job and I think that they took a [TS]

  crack at it and they got some of it [TS]

  right and some of them are so boring [TS]

  not so well yeah I mean the zombie [TS]

  zombies are there to provide pressure on [TS]

  the characters and write make everybody [TS]

  upset and have death be you know [TS]

  threatening moment and destroy the [TS]

  civilization although getting back to [TS]

  the horse I'd like me as a horse who [TS]

  doesn't go to horror movies and doesn't [TS]

  really like being scared by movies I was [TS]

  not scared even remotely anything close [TS]

  to being scared or nervous or in any way [TS]

  emotionally upset or even startled by [TS]

  anything in this me six episodes and the [TS]

  other releases that I think it all that [TS]

  was that was scary [TS]

  now that I was expecting that but I'm [TS]

  just saying like if you're going to [TS]

  measure it in terms of you know from a [TS]

  horror was who doesn't watch our movies [TS]

  because he doesn't like to be scared for [TS]

  thing is supposed to be you know grocer [TS]

  scary they either didn't get me invested [TS]

  enough and the characters or didn't put [TS]

  you know because you can have you could [TS]

  be nervous about a character like you [TS]

  know well i can pick up these you know [TS]

  that top of the game type of things but [TS]

  like in silence of the lambs when the [TS]

  guys got the night vision goggles on [TS]

  he's got the hands going out to her and [TS]

  everything like that that's not a [TS]

  harvesting nothing jumps out at you put [TS]

  your you're scared for that person in [TS]

  that moment because you've spent an hour [TS]

  and a half of a great movie watching [TS]

  them little more action tonight it's [TS]

  more than that it's more of action that [TS]

  is horror intentions their attention and [TS]

  running and gunplay and and actually the [TS]

  dentition when they're rubbing the guts [TS]

  on on their bodies and then have to [TS]

  wander around and hope that the right [TS]

  there zombies don't get them into the [TS]

  rain comes down and i guess i guess if [TS]

  you're squeamish that could have [TS]

  bothered you i guess i'm not you know [TS]

  yeah but that was a great i mean that's [TS]

  a great scene that is in the comic and [TS]

  that is a great scene and they really [TS]

  did a great job of ratcheting up the [TS]

  tension of you know okay we're out with [TS]

  the zombies now although that was almost [TS]

  played for comedy in terms of like a [TS]

  look at this gross stuff you know but i [TS]

  don't know if i would like when they [TS]

  were doing the accent is comical when [TS]

  they're dropping the axon the guy making [TS]

  a squishy noises vs like it's it's [TS]

  comical and you've gotta laugh kinda way [TS]

  but it's right but compared to like [TS]

  really something [TS]

  movie likes or something which I would [TS]

  never watch because i like Gore does get [TS]

  to me if it's like real people being in [TS]

  pain but like you're gonna take an ax to [TS]

  an already dead zombie I guess it's hard [TS]

  to do a scary with zombies with at least [TS]

  with the lumbering variety of zombies [TS]

  and not that you know the high speed [TS]

  running basically a shapewear always on [TS]

  the zombie yeah exactly it's yeah i mean [TS]

  they're basically they just bump into [TS]

  each other for the majority of their [TS]

  screen time and I don't want to spoil it [TS]

  but I assumed they would start getting [TS]

  smarter or running faster as the series [TS]

  goes on i guess and i don't see why I [TS]

  mean we've already seen what happens [TS]

  inside their brains as it doesn't have [TS]

  the same stem fires around in a [TS]

  shambling although you think they would [TS]

  decompose after a time I think some of [TS]

  them do but I mean yeah you eat they [TS]

  basically just bump into each other and [TS]

  wander the streets and any real sense of [TS]

  dread you get from the lumbering zombie [TS]

  is just the fear that you'll be [TS]

  overwhelmed by so many of them that [TS]

  you'll be unable to run past right or [TS]

  surprised and it's so I mean you can't [TS]

  really do a jump out at you moment [TS]

  properly with the zombie and this is [TS]

  true of of even the well-regarded zombie [TS]

  films like you know the dawn of the dead [TS]

  and those kind of movies now it's 28 [TS]

  days later and i'm actually just watch [TS]

  zombieland and I think it's obvious the [TS]

  zombies are our kind of joggers in [TS]

  somule and cardio right yeah that's [TS]

  right that's why he needs his cardio so [TS]

  you know which it was funny juxtaposing [TS]

  watching the walking dead with [TS]

  zombieland because I be land is a comedy [TS]

  and uh and and yet the zombies in many [TS]

  ways are actually scarier in zombieland [TS]

  because they are more aggressive and [TS]

  it's just an interesting balance whereas [TS]

  in shot of the dead i think the zombies [TS]

  are more traditionally shambling and [TS]

  it's reason you know what I thought that [TS]

  a 28 days later zombie will jump out at [TS]

  you and scare you at some point you know [TS]

  that the extent of what a lumbering [TS]

  zombie can do is kind of bleed on you [TS]

  you know kind of attempt to take a bite [TS]

  out of you if order you if you happen to [TS]

  be you know that debilitated in some way [TS]

  well they know they can affect you so [TS]

  there's that that other thing of like [TS]

  even though they're not even though [TS]

  they're they're not harmful that [TS]

  if they you know if you know bite or [TS]

  scratch you then you know that's it you [TS]

  know they don't have to kill you [TS]

  physically maybe that beautifully in [TS]

  that 28 days later that we have seen we [TS]

  read come on drop of blood comes down [TS]

  and lands and yeah don't worry about [TS]

  that so much and walking dead because [TS]

  they get blood all over the number as [TS]

  long as they don't bite you it's ok it's [TS]

  like yes I've noticed nobody is a too [TS]

  concerned about having any open sores or [TS]

  cut [TS]

  yeah yeah it was weird that they are you [TS]

  know I think that's one of those things [TS]

  that you can try to just ignore and say [TS]

  well suffice it to say that they don't [TS]

  get infected except that they have the [TS]

  scenes where they're wearing the stuff [TS]

  before they chop the zombie to rub their [TS]

  guts on and they're they're very [TS]

  meticulous and they had no scratches on [TS]

  them from the baby weeks in zombie [TS]

  apocalypse and then you've got the guy [TS]

  firing office crossbows he's just [TS]

  yanking out the the the arrows and and [TS]

  and blood is flying everywhere that [TS]

  can't be hygienic right and the sister [TS]

  you know cradling her dead sister just [TS]

  completely soaked in blood the rules of [TS]

  the show the TV show or establishing [TS]

  going back to it this is not going to be [TS]

  a realistic TV show they establish the [TS]

  rules on the rules are you get bit maybe [TS]

  scratched and as long as the character [TS]

  never says do you have any cuts or [TS]

  whatever and the University of the show [TS]

  you're supposed to think that it's not [TS]

  possible to get infected accident right [TS]

  but they said that they talked about [TS]

  that that's the problem it with the [TS]

  divinity episode where they rub the guts [TS]

  on them so right they made sure they [TS]

  were wearing gloves and they were all [TS]

  you have to do the gloves which I was [TS]

  like yeah yeah so now maybe they'll [TS]

  maybe they'll pull that out later [TS]

  like you know when you least expect it [TS]

  you know oh you forgot to check the [TS]

  usual how to cut on your hand and you're [TS]

  actually infected it's also interesting [TS]

  that about five seconds of rain [TS]

  completely clear the stench of rotting [TS]

  flesh [TS]

  I mean as soon as you see the Thunder [TS]

  cracking you do exactly what they're [TS]

  doing it a lot of stuff was telegraphed [TS]

  and see but I'm willing to forgive that [TS]

  because i enjoy i loves him i love that [TS]

  scene and i love the fact that they are [TS]

  you know it's too late they're hanging [TS]

  out there and they know that they're [TS]

  gonna lose their advantage and it's just [TS]

  it's very tense of it so and it's also [TS]

  kind of funny and his senses like haha [TS]

  you're smart but not smart enough at and [TS]

  that's a great seeing a comment it was a [TS]

  great scene the TV show [TS]

  well I think he I think you still have [TS]

  done this without being the great thing [TS]

  is that would that should if I was [TS]

  writing the show and said you can write [TS]

  the gritty show but just right [TS]

  regular TV show I would've said finally [TS]

  they got the idea is merely got some [TS]

  this year they got suddenly go out there [TS]

  and they immediately get eaten because [TS]

  here and got something I was not [TS]

  completely over the smell of your living [TS]

  like I don't even think something like [TS]

  this is the worst plan ever stay in her [TS]

  show they need to argue for 30 minutes [TS]

  about how they're all screwed and [TS]

  they're all gonna die and what's the [TS]

  right way to do it and then they go get [TS]

  you all know that they would they would [TS]

  decide they would decide to do this [TS]

  actually I kinda liked your show because [TS]

  you would have to start with a huge army [TS]

  of red shirts and basically for the [TS]

  first five six episodes they would just [TS]

  be trying to survive everyone is a [TS]

  redshirt in real life that those might [TS]

  point to make about about a zombie land [TS]

  I thought zombieland had actually even [TS]

  though was a comedy and a fun movie [TS]

  zombie stop more threatening because [TS]

  they spent the early part of the movie [TS]

  doing at you know a comical kind of [TS]

  explanation of what it takes to survive [TS]

  when they're zombies out there and it [TS]

  was made clear that knowing what to do [TS]

  and having a weapon is not sufficient [TS]

  because you have to actually keep your [TS]

  stuff together you get maybe one maybe [TS]

  two shots you have to be able to outrun [TS]

  them if you trip and fall you on your [TS]

  you slip on something on the ground you [TS]

  don't tie your shoelaces or something [TS]

  that's it for you your interest from [TS]

  Gath constantly even though these guys [TS]

  aren't really that threatening simply [TS]

  because in a life-and-death situation [TS]

  there's there's no no margin for error [TS]

  it's not like you know playing sports or [TS]

  are trying to do your job or whatever [TS]

  when it's life and death there's [TS]

  something trying to kill you even if [TS]

  it's slow moving or something so much [TS]

  can go wrong and I thought that movie [TS]

  recognize that and it made the zombies [TS]

  later in this comedy movie feel more [TS]

  threatening simply because we realize [TS]

  that I am I was really there and I was a [TS]

  real person even if i had these guns I'd [TS]

  probably still be dead so you know these [TS]

  guys better watch out [TS]

  and plus then you know Bill Murray he [TS]

  fights it in a slightly different way [TS]

  just showing death is everywhere man [TS]

  yeah yeah that the yellow yeah they're [TS]

  Woody Harrelson is surrounded by zombies [TS]

  and his little box in the newsroom pilot [TS]

  yeah and there's no way right he's got [TS]

  to be dead and he's not because it's a [TS]

  comedy but I but actually think that [TS]

  there was a moment to talk about sonic [TS]

  zombie land for a minute I think there's [TS]

  a moment in zombieland it's much more [TS]

  horrifying than anything in the walking [TS]

  dead [TS]

  honestly which is where his the [TS]

  flashback where his roommate or nose [TS]

  redoing all the beautiful girl next door [TS]

  who's never talked to him comes in and [TS]

  she's frightened and comforter [TS]

  it's I mean it's played for comedy but [TS]

  yet it's also like he's got a pretty [TS]

  girl and he's really excited and she's [TS]

  really scared and he comforts her and [TS]

  she falls asleep and then she wakes up [TS]

  and she's a zombie and she tries to kill [TS]

  image breaks her her you know her ankle [TS]

  and the bathroom and all this stuff is [TS]

  running away from her [TS]

  that was that was kind of awful and [TS]

  horrifying although also funny and [TS]

  actually i don't know if the walking [TS]

  dead [TS]

  you know even with the drama of the [TS]

  sister dying and all that i'm not sure [TS]

  that it had any scenes that measure up [TS]

  to that [TS]

  yeah and I don't quite understand why [TS]

  because six episodes is way longer than [TS]

  a two-hour movie and again it was a [TS]

  comedy like zombieland you know I give [TS]

  it like a B b-plus is a movie or [TS]

  whatever because as a comedy was funny [TS]

  but not you know hilarious but it did a [TS]

  lot of right in terms of just zombie [TS]

  movie stuff it was impressive [TS]

  yeah I don't know what Steve zombieland [TS]

  comparative about the comparison people [TS]

  think we're making the walking dead [TS]

  zombie haven't actually seen but from [TS]

  what you're telling me it sounds like [TS]

  maybe that the fact that it's primarily [TS]

  a comedy makes this stuff that's [TS]

  supposed to be scary actually that much [TS]

  more frightening by the rest i think [TS]

  that's probably true i'm sorry now I [TS]

  spoiled things that are in zombieland [TS]

  for you i don't really know it's worth [TS]

  renting you know it's yeah the pretty [TS]

  girl next door she doesn't make it was [TS]

  just born I don't think that the spoiler [TS]

  because the second you see our knock on [TS]

  the door you dogs at you know that [TS]

  yeah movie doesn't invest much time and [TS]

  not telegraphing what it's going to do [TS]

  because the point of this thing is a [TS]

  comedy you know so soon as you see your [TS]

  show up at the door [TS]

  setting the bar is a comedy i think does [TS]

  make a difference and I felt that way by [TS]

  shaun of the dead to that their things [TS]

  shaun of the dead that that uh you know [TS]

  I get worried about the characters and [TS]

  that's because yeah it's a comedy but [TS]

  you know it's also not zombies and [TS]

  anybody could die and and they don't [TS]

  care because it's just a variety and I [TS]

  think that doing it being a comedy it [TS]

  makes make it may be just me but it [TS]

  makes me relate to the characters more [TS]

  not right because you'd be joking around [TS]

  of zombies were there because joking [TS]

  around is closer but it's more realistic [TS]

  that you can quickly like somebody when [TS]

  they're funny right or or like you can [TS]

  imagine their the reaction to see you [TS]

  know if i was a zombie apocalypse right [TS]

  before i did i'd i would probably make [TS]

  some stupid wisecrack there are think [TS]

  something like that versus if i was a [TS]

  zombie apocalypse that I would be [TS]

  stoic and heroic and not be perturbed by [TS]

  people dying around me and be a hero and [TS]

  like people have a harder time imagining [TS]

  themselves doing that then saying i [TS]

  would think something sarcastic to [TS]

  myself are before I died so let me ask [TS]

  you guys do you think that there's a [TS]

  fundamental issue with the fact that the [TS]

  walking dead is a TV series but you know [TS]

  in a movie you can introduce all sorts [TS]

  of characters and you can kill them off [TS]

  at any point it doesn't really matter [TS]

  because the movie only it's gonna be 90 [TS]

  minutes to two hours long [TS]

  walking dead you know you know I know [TS]

  they're trying to make it seem like [TS]

  anybody can die at any time but there is [TS]

  also a feeling like we've got this cast [TS]

  of characters and we've got a long way [TS]

  to go and so I'm not quite sure I feel [TS]

  the same jeopardy I mean I feel some but [TS]

  not as much because i know that you know [TS]

  it's not like they're gonna kill [TS]

  everybody and then introduced a new cast [TS]

  the next week i think they struck a good [TS]

  balance with the zombies coming into the [TS]

  camp at the end because at that point [TS]

  again knowing nothing about the comic i [TS]

  didn't see that coming in terms of that [TS]

  many people died as they settled into [TS]

  the camp and like all right this is [TS]

  gonna be the cast the show me wanted two [TS]

  people died they took out a whole bunch [TS]

  only six episodes in because which I [TS]

  thought it was poetic justice a thinned [TS]

  out their group pretty seriously it's so [TS]

  yeah I I i would agree with you I I [TS]

  don't think up until that point I had [TS]

  really been that concerned about them [TS]

  sustaining this over over the long haul [TS]

  but at this point their groups pretty [TS]

  thin down and I had they had a huge [TS]

  group of obvious you know Mark four Dead [TS]

  red shirts and i think most of them got [TS]

  either wasted or or went packing to find [TS]

  family members or tribal or decided to [TS]

  explode and and so what they're left [TS]

  with is relatively small [TS]

  so yeah I am curious about how they're [TS]

  going to extend it is always more actors [TS]

  I mean well yeah i think that you know [TS]

  and again I who knows we're going to do [TS]

  but but I if the comic book will tell us [TS]

  anything or actually logic would tell us [TS]

  anything we're going to be other pockets [TS]

  of people out there and they're going to [TS]

  meet them in this you might get [TS]

  combinations in different ways and [TS]

  people come and people go uh you know [TS]

  but you're right it's it's funny that [TS]

  they did load up the cast with people [TS]

  that they could kill in the first six [TS]

  episodes I I think that's reasonably [TS]

  setting and they really just pin the pin [TS]

  the show for [TS]

  scene one on to Rick right which is I [TS]

  don't know that's the same as the [TS]

  comment but yea he's the guy right so [TS]

  he's the only one who needs to survive [TS]

  with the show to continue as far as how [TS]

  much everything all the person is up for [TS]

  grabs at any point because they leave [TS]

  the shore whatever so that the narrative [TS]

  is tied around him if he were to die not [TS]

  because he just simply want to leave the [TS]

  show after season 3 or something or [TS]

  whatever then you might have a problem [TS]

  but at every 1i though is really a [TS]

  strong enough character that you could [TS]

  completely wipe out everybody that's [TS]

  around him right now and replace them [TS]

  with a robot now I mean that's their [TS]

  fault for for writing it but it's clear [TS]

  that that he's if you're looking for who [TS]

  is the protagonist Rick and I'll show [TS]

  its they don't they don't pussyfoot [TS]

  around it's not an ensemble is not lost [TS]

  because i was Jack the protagonist lost [TS]

  was much more even-handed with spreading [TS]

  the love around and not that you thought [TS]

  Jack was gonna die or anything but they [TS]

  had many primary leads three or four or [TS]

  five you know tent poles where is rick [TS]

  is the is the one in this show so far in [TS]

  just six episodes [TS]

  yeah that's definitely the case so [TS]

  overall Steve thumbs up [TS]

  yeah I don't get you know that the only [TS]

  disappointment for me where like I said [TS]

  that sort of a lack of taking advantage [TS]

  of the more time that they had to build [TS]

  up the characters a bit and then maybe a [TS]

  little initial disappointment in the [TS]

  first episode by how much of what i was [TS]

  seeing I had already seen before in some [TS]

  previous film and it's interesting you [TS]

  go online and much is made about how [TS]

  similar the first episode or at least [TS]

  some elements of it are 2 28 days later [TS]

  with him waking up in the hospital and [TS]

  he wanders around sort of groggily for a [TS]

  while and miraculously not running into [TS]

  any of the Dead and inundating the whole [TS]

  neighborhood in the whole world I then [TS]

  you know kind of gradually finds his way [TS]

  to some-some area where there's their [TS]

  vast concentrations of zombies and so [TS]

  yeah I mean I i did get a lot of deja vu [TS]

  feeling from that first episode not so [TS]

  much from the later episodes where it [TS]

  seemed like they were they were really [TS]

  trying to go more for the drama aspect [TS]

  of it which hasn't for obvious reasons [TS]

  been explored bunch in the in the zombie [TS]

  films right it's almost like they wanted [TS]

  to make a zombie movie and then say [TS]

  alright that's the first episode [TS]

  what but i have to feel for what's the [TS]

  guy's name curtain [TS]

  yeah because apparently 28 days later [TS]

  came out i guess a few weeks before our [TS]

  few months before the first episode of [TS]

  the walking dead i was was scheduled [TS]

  published so of course it gone to the [TS]

  printers he'd finished it and and then [TS]

  in comes this film that's very well [TS]

  received in and it opens with basically [TS]

  the same yeah basic fragments [TS]

  yeah well he's done all right for [TS]

  himself I think that's a you know [TS]

  because i think that that comic has run [TS]

  70-plus episodes now and for 70 Plus [TS]

  issues and and he's got a series and you [TS]

  know he's doing okay Robert Kirkman I by [TS]

  the way has written a superhero comic [TS]

  called invisible that I also like a lot [TS]

  of so people might want to check that [TS]

  one out at and they're looking for a [TS]

  kind of teen angst superhero but still [TS]

  fun lots of action and actually some [TS]

  bloody fight scenes where if you get [TS]

  super powered people together in the [TS]

  beat the hell out of each other it you [TS]

  know it would be really bloody and it is [TS]

  which is actually kind of cool so [TS]

  Kirkman is not a not a afraid of the [TS]

  blood [TS]

  uh you know and i think his story over [TS]

  time the walking dead story evolves to [TS]

  explore all sorts of things that there [TS]

  are you know interesting interesting uh [TS]

  ways of viewing above the the world of [TS]

  the zombie apocalypse and I if i'm [TS]

  looking forward to anything from from [TS]

  the walking dead the series it's that [TS]

  it's to it you know having that length [TS]

  of time 13 episodes for a second season [TS]

  to tell you no more of these stories and [TS]

  get to know more of these characters and [TS]

  not have it be the you know quick hit [TS]

  you know here they are now they're dead [TS]

  kind of thing I'm a little worried we'll [TS]

  get into a rhythm where each episode [TS]

  we're presented with some new set piece [TS]

  that they traveled to [TS]

  oh yeah CDC building and then in the [TS]

  course of 45 nursing home [TS]

  yeah but exactly what all you know [TS]

  there's a new they travel to a new town [TS]

  right couple people and they solve crime [TS]

  and things are basically the same at the [TS]

  end of each episode they were at the [TS]

  beginning except maybe they're short one [TS]

  massage therapist [TS]

  students they do if they choose the [TS]

  prison story line right and i'm really [TS]

  not giving anything away here other than [TS]

  to say if they do that right that could [TS]

  be the best could be an entire season if [TS]

  not more because you know there there's [TS]

  a lot of complexity in a story about if [TS]

  you find a prison you know and you think [TS]

  this is decided to keep people in [TS]

  but now you're listening slept I don't [TS]

  know I just no no I'm not I'm not [TS]

  well you know if i'll fire up the [TS]

  spoiler here but I is really mild all [TS]

  I'm saying is logically you're in the [TS]

  zombie apocalypse apocalypse you find a [TS]

  prison you think say if this is good at [TS]

  keeping people in before the apocalypse [TS]

  maybe we could use it to keep people out [TS]

  like zombies [TS]

  logically speaking that's the field the [TS]

  thing about all the shows just like that [TS]

  after the zombie apocalypse people still [TS]

  have the same basic needs they want [TS]

  safety food shelter security right they [TS]

  don't want to be the incredible hulk [TS]

  wandering from town to town always on [TS]

  the move like people don't like to live [TS]

  like that especially since most people [TS]

  in America anyway don't live like that [TS]

  you find someplace to love you settle [TS]

  down maybe move every couple years or [TS]

  something but even you know even if your [TS]

  army brat you move you know every two [TS]

  years still seems like you're a nomad [TS]

  economic apocalypse you like what's the [TS]

  endgame here we just wander around your [TS]

  whole life running from zombies or do we [TS]

  go find someplace to settle we can be [TS]

  safe to rebuild civilization of it you [TS]

  know eventually that's got to come up so [TS]

  if the prison is there is their eventual [TS]

  reckoning with saying you know what are [TS]

  we going to do in this series we're just [TS]

  going to constantly go from city to city [TS]

  fleeing zombies because who's to say [TS]

  that is not more or less obvious over [TS]

  there let's try to make a life for [TS]

  ourselves and runway and the you know [TS]

  Bobby world and I assume that's what [TS]

  they'll do is they'll build them don't [TS]

  follow that storyline and there's a lot [TS]

  of complexity there cuz like in the [TS]

  prison others honestly no real president [TS]

  season two you know just well I'm afraid [TS]

  we're not spend the whole of season two [TS]

  trading over the well-trodden ground of [TS]

  dawn of the dead shot at it if it's [TS]

  well-trodden but they do it well I'm up [TS]

  for it this you know basically it a [TS]

  small group ends up holding up in in a [TS]

  shopping mall which oh yeah it was made [TS]

  were basically new you know they didn't [TS]

  have a lot of them so that was kind of a [TS]

  new concept in itself but and they [TS]

  barricade the doors with some semis they [TS]

  find the basic [TS]

  dispatch the zombies that are wandering [TS]

  the mall and kind of go it they go [TS]

  through phases where the first they're [TS]

  just happy that they're not constantly [TS]

  afraid of being trapped in Eaton and [TS]

  then they sort of gradually realized [TS]

  that that you know they can do is sort [TS]

  of consumer you know shopping spree [TS]

  where they go through all the stores and [TS]

  they get the fur coats and I you know [TS]

  they have these gourmet meals that they [TS]

  make friends from them for themselves [TS]

  from you know what's what they've got [TS]

  stalked in the mall and and then shortly [TS]

  after that they go through a phase where [TS]

  basically they're just depressed as hell [TS]

  because they realize how empty in and [TS]

  shallow their life has become and you [TS]

  know the kind of barricaded themselves [TS]

  into this is depressing message to this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yeah it's it's it's subtle movie as is [TS]

  George Romero's way but yeah I mean and [TS]

  then in the end of course the thing that [TS]

  finally tears it apart is roving gang of [TS]

  bikers discovers that they're holed up [TS]

  in there and realizes it's not zombies [TS]

  in there there's people in there and [TS]

  they kind of come to the conclusion that [TS]

  you know there's a bunch of guns and [TS]

  whatnot in the mall and and naturally [TS]

  come blazing through the barricades and [TS]

  kind of ruin their whole little life [TS]

  they've set up for themselves so that I [TS]

  i foresee something similar happening [TS]

  based on what you said about this [TS]

  two-person think it depends on how they [TS]

  executed but uh but maybe with our [TS]

  partners Kirkman story is a little more [TS]

  complex than that there's some other [TS]

  stuff going on and because you know it's [TS]

  not isolated and there's other other [TS]

  people and there's other other towns out [TS]

  in the world and then you got to get [TS]

  supplies and I mean there's there's a [TS]

  lot going on and I hope that they they [TS]

  go down that path though because there's [TS]

  some really the fertile ground there i'm [TS]

  assuming a joke i will come back and [TS]

  season to it as well [TS]

  yeah yeah so he's a pilot Lennie James i [TS]

  think is the name of the actor and and [TS]

  you know and he'll Rick is leaving [TS]

  messages on the radio for him and take [TS]

  out the cars and stuff like that and you [TS]

  know I kinda hope we do see him again [TS]

  i'm not sure if he comes back in the [TS]

  comic or not i think i read an interview [TS]

  with Kirkman where he said that he [TS]

  wanted to revisit that character at some [TS]

  point he just hadn't worked them in yet [TS]

  so it doesn't come back on because I [TS]

  got the TV show Telegraph exactly what [TS]

  was going to happen to him in season 2 [TS]

  which I don't want to say in case I'm [TS]

  wrong but yeah I actually know what is [TS]

  faith is actually think he doesn't come [TS]

  back or they just did a one-shot where [TS]

  they told some some of the story or [TS]

  something like that but it's not you [TS]

  know I its act in the comic it's not [TS]

  really much of an arc but that's not to [TS]

  say that it wouldn't be a huge part of [TS]

  the of the TV show that's the beauty of [TS]

  it they spent like a whole episode and a [TS]

  bit on this one guy I have 6 episode so [TS]

  he's got to be you know I don't think [TS]

  it's gonna be reunited with his wife [TS]

  wanted to tell you i think is gonna [TS]

  happen them [TS]

  yeah and a TV show I think using didn't [TS]

  bitten by a zombie and his sons gonna [TS]

  have to kill him [TS]

  and your point this gun is something son [TS]

  make sure you mean it [TS]

  ah I i think his wife's gonna jump off I [TS]

  him and maybe then the Sun will dispatch [TS]

  him i don't know how you can do what he [TS]

  he couldn't bring it online as his kids [TS]

  gotta kill him because the kids got to [TS]

  see his mother like that if i was gonna [TS]

  get didn't I don't know if the kid will [TS]

  be able to come i was running the show [TS]

  the kid wouldn't be able to come then [TS]

  would die but you know me but I think he [TS]

  will be able to kill me very emotional [TS]

  and dramatic i don't think i want to [TS]

  watch your show John that's right you [TS]

  would love my show man I don't know why [TS]

  did you not like the wire i don't [TS]

  remember i love the wire [TS]

  yeah you would like my show so John in [TS]

  the end I you know i'm i'm here your [TS]

  criticism of the walking dead was a what [TS]

  worth watching [TS]

  oh yeah I i give the actual show that i [TS]

  watched a b-minus i just given an F [TS]

  compared to the show on my head [TS]

  alright the minus isn't bad considering [TS]

  the web what you've been saying for the [TS]

  last hour you have high expectations i [TS]

  do I did and I i blame the ad campaign [TS]

  your campaign was aimed squarely at like [TS]

  it if you took the ad campaign and match [TS]

  perfectly with about what I wanted in my [TS]

  head and what I was expecting it just [TS]

  didn't match the show because the ad [TS]

  campaign was was just you know they [TS]

  didn't show you a lot which is always [TS]

  good to be a lot of imagination and just [TS]

  be just deadly serious and dramatic and [TS]

  music and the you know the typography [TS]

  and sort of everything about it nothing [TS]

  dissuaded me from my notions let's put [TS]

  it that way so thank you to Steve lutz [TS]

  and John siracusa for joining me thanks [TS]

  guys [TS]

  thanks for having us thank you [TS]

  exterminate Thank you Thank You robots [TS]

  on and that wraps up this edition of the [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast until next time [TS]

  I'm Jason L thanks for listening [TS]

  this has been the incomparable podcast [TS]

  is exactly incomparable dot-com [TS]

  robot jobs syracuse our robot is just [TS]

  plain old guys like Frankie's I gotta [TS]

  get back to sound body [TS]

  well you know it's more like you're the [TS]

  ear like the personification of the be [TS]

  king [TS]

  send your peas to kill us all and any [TS]

  yeah but it's not is all really yeah [TS]

  this you what you need to say is [TS]

  released the bees [TS]

  not the bees you would like an entire [TS]

  meet you would like to enter your [TS]

  soundboard wouldn't you [TS]

  I would come my be soldiers attack [TS]